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00:19:36 <AnMaster> I just had an idea for a new game
00:20:10 <AnMaster> ais523, has that been done too?
00:20:10 <ehird> booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring
00:20:11 <ais523> 4x4x4 apparently works better
00:20:34 <ais523> no, I read it in a book
00:20:38 <ais523> it's probably on the internet anyway, though
00:25:06 <oerjan> same number of fields but distances would be shorter...
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00:36:40 <ehird> uhh 4^3 doesn't really = 1^6 :P
00:36:52 <ehird> i mean really as in an exaggeration…opposite thing
00:37:00 <ehird> "it isn't really that, it's this"
00:37:12 <oerjan> i am suspecting ais523 of a C joke, there
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00:48:50 <ehird> a man? eating hay?
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01:32:28 * ehird takes a look at Vala
01:36:51 <ehird> oklopol: y'know how you said guis suck to point at icons and shit so they should just look pretty instead? i think you'd like http://www.launchy.net/#screenshots
01:37:03 <ehird> (idea credit quicksilver, gnome do, blah blah blah 50 billion fucking clones)
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03:39:44 <augur> ehird: quicksilver <3
03:40:00 <augur> i just wish it wasnt so fucking glitchy
04:16:22 <oklopol> ais523: 4^3 = 1^6 <<< 2^4 would've been better, so you get both (\(a, b) -> (a^2, b-1)) and xor
04:17:00 <oklopol> i mean 1^6 is pretty arbitrary isn't it
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07:10:07 <beinghuman> http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/p4__288610_Business_Supplies_1_10051_SC3:CG71:DP4118:CL161747
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14:01:05 <ehird> "Traditionally, Mac OS has been a fairly secure operating system. Mac OS X, however, introduced a UNIX underpinning that is more vulnerable to security holes than Mac users are accustomed to."
14:01:09 <ehird> Crazy, crazy pepole.
14:01:48 <ehird> 19:39:44 <augur> ehird: quicksilver <3
14:01:48 <ehird> 19:40:00 <augur> i just wish it wasnt so fucking glitchy
14:22:57 <ais523> does anyone here know of any decent free tools for removing mains hum from music recordings?
14:24:16 <ais523> yet another problem with this laptop means that you have to record things at low volume or the recording doesn't work
14:24:22 <ais523> and I stupidly forgot to disconnect the power cable
14:25:56 <ehird> you can hear it hum when charging? wow
14:26:05 <ehird> ais523: just use a lowpass or something
14:26:07 <ais523> I recorded on a mains-powered system
14:26:11 <ehird> or that sort of ilk
14:26:14 <ais523> ehird: you mean highpass
14:26:31 <ais523> unfortunately, music quite possibly often goes below 50 Hz, after all it's not that low
14:26:38 <ais523> middle C is about 256 Hz
14:26:58 <ais523> ideally, you'd want a tool which worked out what the constant mains hum was, and subtracted it
14:27:02 <ehird> give it a try anyway
14:27:05 <ehird> audacity can do that shit in seconds
14:27:54 <ais523> actually, a notch filter might work, if there is one
14:28:14 <ais523> remove everything that's exactly 50 Hz, while leaving everything else (in theory; the practice is trickier, but audacity probably knows about the issues)
14:28:54 <ehird> ais523: you can probably do that using Audacity's programming language (at least that's what I recall it is) Nyquist
14:29:09 <ehird> otoh there's probably a way to say remove 50hz-50hz
14:29:53 <ais523> well, I installed audacity, and its man page told me what I should be using instead
14:29:55 <ais523> so I'm installing sox too
14:30:27 <ehird> ais523: how did it say that?
14:30:45 <ais523> ehird: the man page basically said "if you want to do simple batch audio editing, use sox"
14:30:55 <ehird> it's just one file, isn't it?
14:31:13 <ehird> if it was one file, audacity would almost certainly be simpler and quicker
14:31:13 <ais523> SoX looks like ImageMagick but for sound
14:31:33 <ehird> ais523: *GraphicsMagick?
14:31:49 <ais523> I thought it was called ImageMagick
14:31:59 <ehird> it is, GraphicsMagick is a fork
14:32:03 <ehird> but apparently is like, the focus
14:32:05 <ais523> and so does its man page
14:32:31 <ehird> ais523: sort of like if esr kept updating C-INTERCAL but with only rubbish changes
14:32:39 <ehird> i gather is the argument
14:32:43 <ais523> heh, he was doing that for a while
14:33:14 <ehird> ais523: so ais523/C-INTERCAL is based on an older esr/?
14:33:25 <ais523> no, I just reverted most of them
14:33:31 <ais523> not deliberately, just more or less by chance
14:33:36 <ais523> as they were to files I subsequently deleted
14:33:52 <ehird> I like the idea of forking from old versions
14:34:14 <ehird> like version 3 of some software was good, version 4 was okay but then they made really crap changes in version 5
14:34:18 <ehird> so everyone just forked version 3
14:34:30 <ehird> like, there, version 4 becomes a black hole
14:34:32 <ais523> heh, I wonder if anyone forked the old version of Amarok?
14:34:35 <ehird> you don't use it if you like the changes
14:34:39 <ehird> because there's version 5
14:34:48 <ehird> but if you hate the changes, you either use version 3 or the fork
14:34:56 <ehird> ais523: I don't get why people whined about the new amarok
14:35:04 <ehird> I haven't used it, but the only bit that looks stupid is the overlapped button thing
14:35:07 <ais523> I never used the old one, so I have no way to compare
14:35:24 <ehird> The old one was… eh… very KDE 3.
14:35:36 <ais523> it doesn't really do what I want it to do (I prefer things that just play sound rather than trying to manage files), but it's the only program I've found that plays sound on KDE
14:35:47 <ais523> for some reason, things like Totem were silent there last I checked
14:35:53 <ais523> maybe that's fixed itself (i.e. via updates) now
14:35:55 <ehird> ais523: I like using a music library, personally
14:36:01 <ehird> I don't think that's really a violation of the unix philosophy
14:36:05 <ehird> You can easily outsource the actual playing
14:36:05 <ais523> I have all my music stored in a filesystem already
14:36:14 <ais523> and don't feel the need to re-sort it
14:36:20 <ehird> did I dispute that?
14:36:25 <ehird> I was just pointing out that music libraries aren't inherently bad
14:36:29 <ais523> I don't think they are
14:40:59 <ais523> they're the sort of thing that I have no problem with other people using, but don't think are particularly suited to me
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15:05:45 <ais523> ugh, the mains distortion wasn't a sine wave
15:06:02 <ais523> so it isn't sufficient to filter out 50 Hz, you need to filter out every multiple of it too...
15:06:04 <ehird> ais523: it's the riemann zeta function!
15:06:12 <ehird> that's a lot of hertzes :p
15:06:25 <ais523> I'll just try the lowest 10 or so, to see what happens
15:09:15 <ehird> "The energy comes from Genie Magic, which as I understand is infinite."
15:11:11 <ais523> well, filtering the first 5 multiples of 50 Hz seems to have about halved the volume of the mains hum
15:11:21 <ehird> clearly you must do it again!
15:11:37 <ais523> nah, the mains hum now has a different timbre
15:12:01 <ais523> which is to be expected if you cut out some multiples but not otheres
15:12:06 <ehird> ais523: how long are all these files?
15:12:14 <ais523> maybe about 10 minutes
15:12:22 <ehird> you know it might be quicker to re-record them, right? :P
15:12:25 <ais523> but I may end up recording more the same way in the future
15:12:33 <ais523> and no, the issue is that the source I recorded from isn't easily reproducible
15:12:37 <ehird> surely it isn't hard to unplug the laptop
15:12:41 <ais523> which is the reason I recorded them in the first place
15:12:51 <ehird> the only example springing to mind is radio
15:13:27 <ais523> ah, filtering out multiples of 50 Hz up to 500 Hz works great
15:13:36 <ais523> the mains hum is still there, but your brain filters it out after a couple of seconds
15:13:41 <ais523> and it couldn't before that
15:13:49 <ehird> if it WAS radio, i'd just filter out everything outside of radio's frequencies
15:14:01 <ais523> 50 is inside radio frequencies
15:14:29 <ais523> it's between 3 and 4 octaves below middle C; rather low, but not so massively low that nobody ever uses it
15:15:16 <ais523> ooh, of course, it might not be my brain filtering it out, but rather the filtering getting better the more data it has
15:15:35 <ehird> easy way to find out
15:15:45 <ehird> ais523: find two near-identical parts of the song
15:15:48 <ehird> one from the start and one from the end
15:15:52 <ehird> run a script that randomises them
15:15:56 <ehird> and you have to guess which it is
15:16:03 <ehird> repeat with multiple samples for SCIENCE
15:16:08 <ais523> oh, my solution would be to produce a spectogram, and watch to see if the hum line actually faded on the picture
15:16:15 <ehird> that's boring man.
15:16:46 <ehird> ais523: it might be hiding in other frequencies, too!
15:17:02 <ais523> ehird: if it isn't a multiple of 50, then it isn't UK mains hum
15:17:02 <ehird> also, even if it's there, if you can't hear it it doesn't really matter
15:17:18 <ais523> and agreed, if I can't hear it it doesn't matter
15:17:57 <ehird> although by that logic i shouldn't use lossless compression
15:17:59 <ehird> but i like it, so bah
15:18:36 <ais523> well, I'm keeping the originals too
15:18:48 <ais523> the advantage of lossless compression is that if you want to do further processing, it's better than the lossy version
15:19:23 <ehird> yes, but i store unprocessed lossless music
15:19:26 <ais523> e.g. it's common for instruments to be recorded in stereo but vocals in mono, so by subtracting one channel from the other you can often remove the lyrics from a song
15:19:35 <ehird> just because i have the disk space, and it makes me feel warm and fuzzy
15:19:46 <ais523> ehird: well, storing both lossless /and/ lossy would be a waste
15:22:00 <ehird> wow, the little tick sound of my trackball is produced by the mouse's clicky thingy (like an ipod)
15:22:02 <ehird> not the wheel itself
15:22:10 <ehird> same as the side grip buttons
15:22:22 <ehird> i discovered this because it's just run out of battery :P
15:22:30 <ais523> ok, so the mouse makes click noises when you turn the trackball, to make it feel more realistic?
15:22:55 <ehird> just for feedback, I think
15:23:07 <ehird> for instance, gripping the side buttons (they're not actual buttons) while it's off doesn't feel right
15:23:12 <ehird> they never click, it doesn't feel like you're doing it right
15:23:19 <ehird> while it's on, it makes a little click noise and feels fine
15:23:30 <ehird> similarly, it felt like the ball was broken
15:23:33 <ehird> like, not touching the contact point
15:23:46 <ais523> this reminds me of the first fanless computers
15:23:57 <ais523> in the end they had to attach a noisy fan to them which did nothing, because everyone assumed they were broken
15:24:05 <ehird> the original macintosh was fanless
15:24:12 <ehird> as well as every macintosh until the somethingorother (SE?)
15:24:16 <ais523> well, maybe first fanless PCs
15:24:23 <ehird> people added fans to the macintosh tho
15:24:27 <ehird> cause it overheated a lot
15:24:28 <ais523> a fan just helps so much in getting processor density down
15:24:30 <ehird> breaking components
15:24:48 <ais523> it's density and speed that cause components to heat up
15:24:49 <ehird> ais523: yeah, it's amazing how much cooler everything gets with just one fan
15:24:50 <ais523> well, density up, size down
15:25:11 <ehird> ais523: the more dense the cooler, no?
15:25:16 <ehird> when 45nm chips were the new thing
15:25:22 <ehird> everyone was going "it needs less voltage and runs cooler"
15:25:39 <ais523> that's because being smaller lets you make better designs
15:25:43 <ais523> also, can use less power
15:25:53 <ais523> as in, you can run it on a lower current
15:26:06 <ais523> computers use microamps anyway, sometimes even nanoamps, for most of the internal circuitry
15:26:09 <ehird> clearly what we need is reversible computers, which can do any operation without heating
15:26:26 <ehird> of course, that uses a ton of memory, and you pay off big time with setting registers
15:26:28 <ais523> did you know that all quantum computers are reversible
15:26:37 <ehird> ais523: impossible
15:26:41 <ais523> because there's no known way to power them otherwise
15:26:43 <ehird> given infinite memory
15:26:53 <ais523> ehird: yes, you can be both TC and reversible given infinite memory
15:27:10 <ehird> ais523: so you have to restart a quantum computer after doing a heavy decryption task? :D
15:27:23 <ais523> ehird: you have to restart it after reading any of its output
15:27:28 <ehird> i presume the resetting of all the qubits gives off a shitload of heat
15:27:33 <ais523> because that causes the whole thing to decohere to a known state
15:27:47 <ehird> i feel sorry for all the guys in the backwater universes
15:27:49 <ais523> then, once you've read its output, you blank it by xoring the output to its current state
15:27:52 <ehird> their quantum computers never work
15:28:34 <ais523> rotating values is one of the fundamental operations in quantum computers, it's sort of like xor but with complex numbers
15:28:51 <ais523> there's a binary xor-like operation too, it's actually the only binary operation they use
15:29:20 <ehird> "I am diagnosed with Tourette's Syndrome. AMA" ← pfft, as if. you didn't even say "fuckshit" once!
15:29:30 <ehird> ais523: but i assume that the resetting is very hot?
15:29:42 <ais523> well, no, the resetting is reversible
15:29:48 <ais523> it's probably the collapsing that generates heat
15:30:09 <ais523> you reset a quantum computer by working out a reversible operation that gets it from its current state to its initial state
15:30:25 <ais523> ooh, I think I know how this works
15:30:26 <ehird> it's a shame that room-temperature quantum computers look unlikely
15:30:36 <ais523> most operations happen in all the parallel universes, but the collapsing only happens in one
15:30:49 <ais523> thus you don't generate nearly as much heat
15:31:08 <ais523> and tbh, even near-absolute-zero quantum computers would be great, if they had decent storage space
15:31:25 <ais523> you'd use them as a coprocessor, quantum computers are awful at doing things like conditionals
15:31:42 <ais523> you have to do them the same way Knuth did conditionals in INTERCAL, by faking them using arithmetic
15:32:41 <ais523> program flow has to be deterministic in a quantum computer, but that doesn't prevent it being TC
15:33:00 <ehird> ais523: there's a 128-qubit computer
15:33:12 <ais523> last I heard, the record was 7
15:33:22 <ehird> produced by D-Wave Systems: http://www.dwavesys.com/
15:33:24 <ais523> really, a few kiloqubits will be enough to do certain practical calculations, I think
15:33:29 <ehird> bloggity blog with pictures and stuff: http://dwave.wordpress.com/
15:33:57 <ehird> "Putting all of these qubits into superposition states — the initial Hamiltonian in the adiabatic algorithm — gives 2^128 ~ 3 x 10^38 simultaneously held states. Not quite the number of atoms in the earth, but close."
15:34:14 <ais523> yes, impressive, although I'd be more interested if they managed actual calculations
15:34:15 <ehird> i think you're overestimating how much would be needed
15:34:24 <ehird> they sell quantum computers
15:34:37 <ehird> admittedly, 7 digit money
15:34:41 <ehird> but money nonetheless
15:34:50 <ehird> the 128-qubit chips are still being tested though
15:34:56 <ais523> ehird: things like factorising prime numbers used in cryptography need a number of qubits similar to the number of bits needed to do the calculations when you already know the answer
15:34:57 <ehird> iirc there's a research department that has one of their computers, probably some others too
15:35:20 <ais523> so if you want to break, say, a 4096-bit privkey, you're going to need about 4 kiloqubits
15:35:48 <ehird> quantum computing is so disappointing, you look at it and you're all, wow, this is amazing, this will change everything
15:35:50 <ehird> then all the caveats :D
15:36:04 <ehird> "cannot massively reduce complexity. requires an unreasonable number of qubits."
15:36:09 <ais523> it's a weird style of programming
15:36:11 <ehird> "also, you've got a fridge, right?"
15:36:15 <ehird> "like. a really good fridge."
15:36:20 <ehird> "we're talking absolute zero here."
15:36:24 <ais523> you can do ginormous numbers of calculations in parallel, but only get the result of one of them
15:36:43 <ais523> but there are ways to manipulate the probabilities so that the one you get is decently likely to be the one you actually want
15:37:01 <ais523> IIRC, all nontrivial quantum computations can return /any/ answer, but good algorithms will return the one you actually want with a high probability
15:37:13 <ais523> and you check on a classical computer, then repeat if the quantum computer got it wrong
15:37:33 <ehird> ais523: I'd just run the quantum computer N times until we get the same result N times
15:37:44 <ehird> you never know that a classical computer doesn't suffer random corruption, too
15:37:50 <ehird> and this way is… faster
15:38:37 <ehird> ais523: incidentally, on http://dwave.wordpress.com/page/2/, it looks like a regular silicon chip (sans die package thing)
15:38:38 <ais523> it's not random corruption, it's just ending up in the wrong universe
15:38:46 <ehird> how does it differ from that?
15:38:56 <ehird> because i know solid-state quantum computing is new-fangled and this ain't it
15:38:56 <ais523> ehird: it almost certainly /is/ solid state, just with different chemicals used
15:39:06 <ehird> ais523: so that article about the first solid state quantum computer was bullshit?
15:39:08 <ais523> well, as in the packaging is solid state
15:39:13 <ais523> even if the part that does stuff isn't
15:39:32 <ais523> it's like, you put the computer inside a silicon chip because that's an easy environment to make the connections to it
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15:41:45 <ehird> we should hijack a universe without any life and use it for computation.
15:41:53 <ehird> us as in #esoteric
15:42:15 <ais523> I read a short story about that
15:42:30 <ais523> where an advanced society had invented a sort of teleporter to and from alternative universes
15:42:42 <ais523> and were giving people their own Earths, in which life had never developed, to live on
15:43:04 <ais523> eventually they ran into people from alternative universes in which life /had/ developed, which were doing the same thing
15:43:42 <ehird> who says other universes have to obey our physics? :P
15:44:11 <ais523> I think they picked ones that did
15:44:17 <ais523> after all, they were ones in which Earth existed
15:44:23 <ais523> just never developed life for whatever reason
15:45:17 <ehird> of course, observing a universe with different physics is nonsensical
15:45:28 <ehird> let alone going there
15:51:27 <ehird> [[IAmA scientist, minister, and atheist, I've started a Christian sect for reality-based people - AMA]] // …thus bringing the definition of the word "Christian" to all-new realms of semantic meaninglessness?
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15:52:09 <pikhq> ehird: A Christian sect for atheists? Wow.
15:52:18 <ehird> pikhq: seems to be a Thomas Jefferson-style thing
15:52:25 <ehird> "Jesus was a nice guy, let's be like him and help each other, 'kay?"
15:52:30 <ehird> but that's not really christianity.
15:52:38 <pikhq> I could've sworn the monotheism was one of the few things that Christians agreed with each other on. :P
15:52:40 <ais523> I suppose you can be atheist and yet agree with many of the teachings of christianity
15:52:47 <ehird> also, it kind of falls flat if you're trying to drop the belief/faith
15:52:50 <pikhq> ais523: But that's not Christianity.
15:52:56 <ehird> because there's basically no evidence that jesus historically existed
15:53:05 <ehird> so that's pretty much the dumbest idea i've heard all day.
15:53:21 <ais523> ehird: Jesus turns up in many religions
15:53:27 <ais523> although they all have slightly different versions of events
15:53:33 <ehird> is there a point to that sentence?
15:53:51 <ais523> I think Christianity specifically believes he died and was resurrected, whereas several others don't
15:54:13 <ehird> he most likely didn't even exist, though
15:54:33 <pikhq> ais523: That's pretty much the defining aspect of Christianity.
15:54:34 <ais523> personally I'd be surprised if Jesus was an entirely invented character
15:54:46 <ehird> ais523: I think it's possible he was a minor cult leader or something
15:55:07 <pikhq> Though other Abrahamic religions describe him as a great prophet.
15:55:09 <ehird> but if he did exist, from the historical silence on him, he almost certainly wasn't anything like the character in the bible
15:55:26 <ehird> (perhaps just reused to peddle a new religion?)
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23:05:59 <ehird> okay, now, clog and everyone else
23:06:05 <ehird> i am going to paste every line since clog exited
23:06:09 <ehird> you're most welcome
23:07:03 * oerjan swats ehird down into the asphalt, warner bros style -----###
23:07:06 <ehird> 16:04] pikhq: "Brilliant". EMI is no longer selling CDs to smaller record stores.
23:07:07 <ehird> [16:06] Pthing left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:07:07 <ehird> [16:09] ais523: pikhq: don't you mean "Brillant"?
23:07:07 <ehird> [16:09] pikhq: Yes.
23:07:08 <ehird> [16:11] ehird: if emi wants to kill themselves, can't we please offer assisted suicide?
23:07:08 <ehird> [16:12] ehird: well I guess that's "shutting down" :P
23:07:09 <ehird> [16:18] clog left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:07:11 <ehird> [16:41] MigoMipo left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:07:13 <ehird> [16:46] ehird: Nobody talk, clog is dead!
23:07:15 <ehird> [16:47] MigoMipo joined the chat room.
23:07:17 <ehird> [16:50] FireFly: Urgh
23:07:19 <ehird> [16:50] FireFly: Note to self: Regex intensive perl source code isn't meant to be written on a cellphone
23:07:21 <ehird> [16:53] pikhq: Perl is not meant to be written.
23:07:23 <ehird> [17:01] ais523: bye clog
23:07:25 <ehird> [17:03] ehird: FireFly: CODE isn't meant to be written on a cellphone
23:07:27 <ehird> [17:03] ehird: buy a laptop, you bum!
23:07:29 <ehird> [17:04] FireFly: Meh
23:07:31 <ehird> [17:04] FireFly: Not when you can SMS it for free to friends
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23:07:43 <ehird> [18:02] pikhq: GregorR: "All-user-submissions Augst".
23:07:45 <ehird> [18:02] pikhq: August, even.
23:07:49 <ehird> [18:03] ehird: pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eclectic_shorthand_by_cross.png ← is your language thingy more concise than any of these?
23:07:52 <ehird> [18:03] ehird: Cross-(Eclectic) appears to be shorter but has more intricate forms than the others.
23:07:54 <ehird> [18:04] pikhq: ehird: Quite likely not. It's not an exceptionally well-designed system.
23:07:56 <ehird> [18:04] ehird: I don't believe I could learn to read any of those in the png.
23:07:58 <ehird> [18:04] ehird: My brain doesn't distinguish most of the forms.
23:08:00 <ehird> [18:09] Asztal joined the chat room.
23:08:02 <ehird> [18:33] ehird: Does anyone know if Firefox has D-Bus stuff to manipulate its pages? Epiphany?
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23:08:59 <ehird> well ain't that just a bitch; allow me to continue
23:09:40 <ehird> 18:38] AnMaster left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
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23:09:41 <ehird> [19:19] fizzie: The fourth attempt lost: http://pastebin.com/m3d389eb
23:09:41 <ehird> [19:21] ehird: "Actually, Gnome is more customizable than KDE." // now this, THIS one I haven't heard before
23:09:42 <ehird> [19:21] ehird: fizzie: haha
23:09:44 <ehird> [19:21] ehird: what is testlm-disk?
23:09:46 <ehird> [19:22] fizzie: It's just a perl script I whipped together to mimic the way fungot generates babble, except a bit better.
23:09:46 <fungot> ehird: it does'nt give the object a name cab the taxi-list length added to 1, 4 3 2 ( total of indices) bytes of memory
23:09:49 <ehird> [19:22] fungot: fizzie: which is semantically right, but acts wrong
23:09:49 <fungot> ehird: remote control as an adverb+verb? nice. how do i do a simple method for defining those few special widgets that your app needs ( most interesting apps do need some kind of letrec as an abstract fnord my fnord
23:09:51 <ehird> [19:22] fizzie: "-disk" is the "do not read the whole model to memory" variant; even though the model.bin.irc file is only 200 megabytes, Perl managed to use something like three gigabytes of memory to load it before I told it to stop.
23:09:55 <ehird> [19:25] FireFly: fungot did have a point
23:09:55 <fungot> ehird: one time my " a bit dirty."
23:09:57 <ehird> [19:25] fungot: FireFly: fnord augur i just type-raped a 13 year old nerd, yes.
23:09:57 <fungot> ehird: and even more fun :) is there already a scheme compiler.)
23:09:59 <ehird> [19:25] FireFly: "the way fungot generates babble"
23:10:01 <ehird> [19:25] fungot: FireFly: should it be n-ary? why would you do with a work... it could spend n ticks to mark a pheromone which lasts 5000 ticks though :) i'm just curious
23:09:40 <ehird> [19:25] FireFly: "which is semantically right"
23:09:42 <ehird> [19:26] ehird: 19:25] FireFly: fungot did have a point
23:09:44 <ehird> [19:26] ehird: [19:25] fungot: FireFly: fnord augur i just type-raped a 13 year old nerd, yes.
23:09:46 <ehird> [19:26] fungot: ehird: what in specific did you mean by that? " curried procedure?" :)
23:09:48 <ehird> [19:26] fungot: ehird: i mean, without side-effects one can just implement that without explicit continuations? dynamic-wind doesn't make an incredible amount of sense) here.
23:09:51 <ehird> [19:26] ehird: i think that's verbatim
23:09:55 <ehird> [19:26] ehird: s/^1/[1/
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23:11:03 <pikhq> BeholdMyGlory: Pasting logs for clog's sake.
23:11:07 -!- ehird has joined.
23:11:18 <ehird> BeholdMyGlory: replaying logs for when clog wasn't here, duh
23:11:28 <ehird> there are arguably better ways to do this but i've started now
23:11:39 <ehird> first, s/^18:/[18:/
23:12:35 <ehird> [19:27] fizzie: Yes, it's prone to that.
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23:12:36 <ehird> [20:10] ehird: fizzie: btw, your f_n : N → N thing where n > m → f_n(x) > f_m(x) forall n can be done for n : Bool trivially by f_false(n) = odds(n) and f_true(n) = evens(n)
23:12:37 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: s/(odds|evens)\(([^)]+)\)/$1_$2/g
23:12:39 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: but
23:12:41 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: that violates your extra rule,
23:12:43 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: err i forget
23:12:45 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: but i know it violates one of your extra rules
23:12:47 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: also i may be wrong, not thinking today
23:12:49 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: but i definitely got it right before
23:12:51 <ehird> [20:11] ehird: i may just have transcribed wrongly.
23:12:53 <ehird> [20:13] fizzie: I don't even remember what that is.
23:12:55 <ehird> [20:13] ehird: lemme find your original staterment
23:12:57 <ehird> [20:13] ehird: agh clog is down
23:12:59 <ehird> [20:13] fizzie: If it was the version numbering thing, then I remember.
23:13:01 <ehird> [20:14] ehird: oh, perhaps
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23:13:22 <pikhq> Crappy flood-protection is crappy.
23:13:49 <ehird> [20:14] ehird: i didn't look at context
23:13:49 <ehird> [20:14] ehird: fizzie: oh maybe it was mapping two to one
23:13:50 <ehird> [20:14] ehird: f : N → N → N → N uniquely, maybe
23:13:50 <ehird> [20:14] ehird: where the first has the original constraint
23:13:50 <ehird> [20:14] ehird: naw
23:13:51 <ehird> [20:14] ehird: fizzie: i'll grep my logsies
23:13:52 <ehird> [20:16] fizzie: My "original statement" in that case left out quite a lot of relevant things. But it was about a function f: Z^3 → Z such that n>m implies f(n)>f(m), where '>' for the 3-tuples is their lexicographical ordering.
23:13:56 <ehird> [20:16] ehird: fizzie: well you -can- divide the (positive, at least) integers in two
23:13:58 <ehird> [20:16] ehird: {1, 3, 5, 7, …} and {0, 2, 4, 6, …}, obviously
23:14:00 <ehird> [20:17] ehird: fizzie: so that's f : Bool → Z^2 → Z
23:14:02 <ehird> [20:17] ehird: fizzie: so basically do what integers are for 2, for 3, and then apply that
23:14:04 <ehird> [20:17] ehird: fizzie: but your other condition was something like
23:14:06 <ehird> [20:18] ehird: all of the 0s were above all of the 1s
23:14:08 <ehird> [20:18] ehird: or something
23:14:10 <ehird> [20:18] ehird: which is obviously impossible
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23:14:59 <ehird> p20:18] fizzie: Yes, I guess it was from three nonnegative integers to any arbitrary integer. And of course there is a injective function, but the ordering property was the trivially impossible one.
23:14:59 <ehird> [20:18] ehird: right it's just you seem to consider it… not that trivially impossible
23:14:59 <ehird> [20:18] ehird: which confused me
23:14:59 <ehird> [20:18] ehird: fizzie: also *an injective.
23:15:00 <ehird> [20:19] fizzie: Yes, I again retroactively edited the 'injective' I was going to forget.
23:15:02 <ehird> [20:19] ehird: fizzie: wait… what?
23:15:04 <ehird> [20:19] ehird: did you word that right?
23:15:06 <ehird> [20:19] fizzie: Edited in the word injective, is what I was trying to say.
23:15:08 <ehird> [20:20] fizzie: Inserted, maybe.
23:15:10 <ehird> [20:20] fizzie: What-the-everness.
23:15:12 <ehird> [20:21] Deewiant: The ever-what-ness.
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23:16:04 <ehird> [21:28] fizzie: A mind is a potato field...
23:16:04 <ehird> [21:28] ehird: whoa you said that JUST as i tabbed to this window
23:16:05 <ehird> [21:29] fizzie: That was what the bot thinks is pretty much the most likely continuation of "a mind is": http://pastebin.com/m16acacd7
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23:16:13 <ehird> [21:47] oerjan: logs are down?
23:16:15 -!- ehird has quit (Excess Flood).
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23:16:41 <ehird> [21:47] oerjan: logs are down?
23:16:41 <ehird> [21:48] • oerjan tries out downforeveryoneorjustme.com
23:16:41 <ehird> [21:54] oerjan: and DMM repeats himself. almost.
23:16:42 <ehird> [21:58] pikhq: Out of curiosity, when was the last time we discussed esolangs here?
23:16:44 <ehird> [21:59] oerjan: Oh, I recall way back in Yonder Days...
23:16:46 <ehird> [22:00] Topic changed to "You can discuss anything except weird programming languages, which is strictly forbidden. Also, http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D." by oerjan.
23:16:49 <ehird> [22:01] oerjan: that probably also includes haskell and J.
23:16:49 -!- ehird has quit (Excess Flood).
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23:17:24 <ehird> methinks it is getting more aggressive as I go
23:17:31 <ehird> [22:02] oerjan: php and java are perfectly appropriate, of course.
23:17:32 <ehird> [22:03] oerjan: ah, clog isn't even here.
23:17:32 <ehird> [22:04] oerjan: all our brilliant words will be lost for eternity.
23:17:32 <ehird> [22:04] oerjan: mind you they probably would anyway, eventually.
23:17:32 <ehird> [22:05] oerjan: we seem to have entered the realm of deep silence, aka no AnMaster + ehird
23:17:33 <ehird> [22:06] oerjan: only a lone blathering monologue keeps the forces of chaos at bay
23:17:34 <ehird> [22:18] oerjan: hm EgoBot but no HackEgo
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23:17:36 <ehird> [22:19] pikhq: Blather.
23:17:38 <ehird> [22:19] oerjan: Better blather with butter batter
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23:18:10 <BeholdMyGlory> Who's in charge of clog? Couldn't someone just do "tail -n NumberOfLines myLog.log >> clog.log" or something like that?
23:18:17 <ehird> [22:21] fizzie: blather on for way too long. click here to install thunderbird option, no doubt, take down those who are interested in.
23:18:17 <ehird> [22:22] • oerjan assumes whatever that was, it involved google translate somehow.
23:18:18 <ehird> [22:23] fizzie: oerjan: Oh, right, you missed the context. It involved the tool also seen in http://pastebin.com/m16acacd7 which is fungot's babblegen with the option to specify the initial context.
23:18:18 <ehird> [22:23] fungot: fizzie: soegaard never tiring of advocacy for now, only define-macro...
23:18:18 <ehird> [22:23] oerjan: the context will never be found
23:18:20 <ehird> [22:24] fizzie: sleep now bye. don't accidentally break your "delete". UNK arguments just changed, so all changes were mutable :p
23:18:23 <ehird> [22:24] oerjan: "a mind is a terrible thing to begin with" :D
23:18:25 <ehird> [22:26] oerjan: eris seems a very appropriate hostname
23:18:27 <ehird> [22:27] oerjan: now the wiki went down :(
23:18:29 <ehird> [22:32] Sgeo left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:18:31 <ehird> [22:47] ehird: [[False. Obama published it, not the state of Hawaii. Its not a birth
23:18:33 <ehird> [22:47] ehird: certificate but a Certificate of Live Birth (confusing name, but
23:18:35 <ehird> [22:47] ehird: different document), issued (at the time) by Hawaii to infants as old
23:18:37 <ehird> [22:47] ehird: as a year. No hospital or attending physician, and possibly even a
23:18:39 <ehird> [22:47] ehird: forgery. But who cares about the truth? He's a great guy....hope and
23:18:41 <ehird> [22:47] ehird: change and all that other nice stuff.]]
23:18:43 <ehird> [22:47] ehird: does anyone have any theories as to how the author of ↑ could figure out how to subscribe to a mailing list?
23:18:46 <ehird> [22:58] • oerjan assumes that ? is a unicode character. he cannot check as the logs are down.
23:19:04 <ehird> [23:18] BeholdMyGlory: Who's in charge of clog? Couldn't someone just do "tail -n NumberOfLines myLog.log >> clog.log" or something like that?
23:19:13 <ehird> and he doesn't touch clog
23:19:18 <ehird> nor, probably, care
23:19:24 <ehird> anyway, it's done now
23:19:32 <FireFly> Maintaining it without touching it is interesting
23:19:45 <ehird> FireFly: he maintains the box it's on.
23:19:54 <ehird> every time it's gone down, tunes.org has also, iirc
23:19:56 <ehird> except for maybe one time
23:20:44 <oerjan> <ehird> methinks it is getting more aggressive as I go <-- i was going to say that
23:20:52 <ehird> yeah but then the last bit
23:20:57 <ehird> smooth like butter
23:22:07 <oerjan> grmbl the tunes.org web server is still down
23:22:40 <ehird> that's how i've known where to resume :P
23:24:29 <oerjan> there must be _something_ you said in that interval which the universe doesn't want me to know :P
23:29:29 <oerjan> just me taunting the universe a bit, or something
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23:31:54 <oerjan> !haskell logBase 2 (50/440)
23:32:20 <oerjan> just 3 octaves and a bit below tuning fork
23:32:48 <oerjan> <ais523> unfortunately, music quite possibly often goes below 50 Hz, after all it's not that low
23:34:45 <oerjan> !haskell logBase 2 (20000/440)
23:37:12 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A440
23:38:11 <oerjan> !haskell logBase 2 (435/440) * 12
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