00:13:07 -!- calamari has joined.
00:32:10 -!- Asztal has joined.
00:35:15 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:02:12 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:12:49 -!- Dewi has joined.
01:19:17 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner.
01:37:37 -!- GregorR has joined.
01:38:35 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
01:51:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
01:52:32 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:18:22 <ehird> Hey... oerjan is mentioned in the Haskell 98 Report.
02:18:35 <ehird> "In addition, dozens of other people made helpful contributions, some small but many substantial. They are as follows: […] Orjan Johansen […]"
02:21:31 <ehird> Admittedly, it's in a list that has, at a glance, more than 100 items.
02:33:22 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:33:26 -!- puzzlet has joined.
02:40:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
02:48:35 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
02:49:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
02:58:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:58:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
03:03:04 <ehird> eizo displays are shiny
03:07:38 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:08:29 -!- coppro has joined.
03:19:02 -!- puzzlet has joined.
03:31:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:41:53 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection).
03:47:28 -!- coppro has joined.
04:15:18 -!- oerjan has joined.
04:16:21 <oerjan> <ehird> Hey... oerjan is mentioned in the Haskell 98 Report. <-- i sent in some error corrections
04:19:33 <pikhq> oerjan: So, you've been doing Haskell for quite a while.
04:19:56 <oerjan> that was back in 2001/2002 or so, when i was first learning it
04:22:02 <oerjan> <AnMaster> which kind of disproves xkcd today. There is more to being a geek that just that flowchart ;)
04:22:29 <oerjan> my thought about that was that a lot is hidden under the knowledge needed to understand that something _is_ related
04:46:04 <ehird> oerjan: so not 1998 or before thenw
04:46:09 <ehird> which would have been even more awesome
04:50:52 <ehird> can someone explain to me why people like CRTs so much for professional work
04:50:57 <ehird> aren't they inherently blurry
04:51:40 <oerjan> their radiation gives such a nice skin color
04:51:41 <ehird> hmm, aperture grill crts look less shit than most i've seen
04:51:45 <ehird> at least from my lcd :-P
04:55:56 -!- kwertii has joined.
05:18:58 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
05:19:19 <ehird> I wonder if we have OLED visors yet
05:19:24 <ehird> must... become... cyborg...
05:20:31 <ehird> lol, i think my ideal wearable computer rig would have three cameras
05:20:42 <ehird> in front, in back, and mounted on the goggles/visor
05:20:46 <ehird> pointing at your eyes
05:20:56 <ehird> (for scrolling, naturally)
05:21:16 <ehird> Sgeo: Body Area Network exists
05:21:22 <ehird> Sgeo: http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/15/wearable-ecg-uses-patients-posture-for-encryption-transmits-da/
05:22:13 <Sgeo> It's not exactly commonplace, is it?
05:22:42 <ehird> anyway who wants a body area network when you can have a bluetoothin', wifin', 3gin' wearable computer.
05:22:50 <Sgeo> It should not be a pain to open links
05:23:40 <Sgeo> ehird, it's painful for me to open links I see on IRC. Firefox is so slow. Slow to start up, and slow to open new tabs
05:23:51 <ehird> Sgeo: try epiphany-webkit
05:23:59 <Sgeo> I'm on Windows
05:24:15 <Sgeo> Not when I feel like playing games
05:24:23 <Sgeo> Which I felt like when I turned my computer on today
05:24:38 <ehird> 3d virtualisation in your face
05:25:01 <Sgeo> Can I get my current Windows stuff in a VM?
05:25:36 <Sgeo> My current Windows install. Can I easily run it in a VM?
05:25:49 <ehird> Uhh, you could mount the partition in the VM, I guess.
05:26:00 <ehird> VMWare can do it, says googling.
05:26:04 <ehird> let's see if virtualbox can
05:26:11 <ehird> But with some reading you may be able to manage this. Just be very careful. One wrong move and you can trash the OS.
05:26:12 <ehird> Put this in Goggle.com raw access site:forums.virtualbox.org
05:26:12 <ehird> Also section 9.10. Using a raw host hard disk from a guest (read the warnings)
05:26:17 <ehird> Sgeo: Yes, you can.
05:26:23 <ehird> "I used the 'sudo VBoxManage internalcommands createrawvmdk -filename <FilePath> -rawdisk /dev/sda2 -register' command"
05:26:52 <ehird> Sgeo: So install VirtualBox in Ubuntu, run one command, add a new VM and choose the created file as the disk.
05:27:10 <Sgeo> I'll look into it
05:27:17 <ehird> Sgeo: It's one command
05:27:26 <Sgeo> I'm going to sleep soonish
05:27:33 <ehird> sudo VBoxManage internalcommands createrawvmdk -filename <put a path here> -rawdisk /dev/<the hd> -register
05:27:37 <Sgeo> And trying to install Zune
05:27:43 <ehird> and then <put a path here> is a vbox disk file
05:28:23 <Sgeo> ehird, so I can watch season 3 of The Guild sooner, hopefully
05:29:02 <Sgeo> I'll wait if it's not free on the Zune marketplace
05:29:14 <oerjan> no, it's cold, because it helps agains global warming.
05:31:33 <Sgeo> "Windows needs to restart to complete the installation"
05:31:48 <ehird> How is that surprising
05:31:56 * Sgeo tries without restarting
05:33:30 <Sgeo> Seems to be working
05:34:47 <Sgeo> Ok, apparently I can download season 1, but I don't see season 2
05:46:12 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
05:49:05 -!- FireFly has joined.
05:56:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
06:03:41 -!- oklokok has joined.
06:05:28 -!- kwertii has quit.
06:06:21 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
06:29:58 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
06:32:21 <ehird> the internet is way too intwined
06:35:25 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: to intertwine?
06:36:05 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: buy a magic
06:36:13 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Ich muss nach die Schule fahren").
06:37:29 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: pay someone to mail you disks with your downloads on
06:37:34 <ehird> huge latency, massive bandwith
06:37:44 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: i volunteer
06:38:05 <ehird> i have an 8mbit connection that runs at ~6.5mbit, it isn't too good :P
06:38:14 <ehird> 800kiB/s max in practice, more often 500-600kiB/s
06:39:43 <ehird> i wanna get me some $15/mo usenet.
06:40:00 <ehird> march next year we get ADSL2+, I think, anyway; so I should be able to get 3072kiB/s
06:40:12 <ehird> i think the upload isn't too bad either
06:40:32 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: where do you live
06:41:02 <ehird> does the whole state have terrible interwebs or sth
06:41:34 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: anyway, my suggestion: there's a fibre-optic provider in norway that don't charge you $400 if you dig your own cables
06:41:39 <ehird> see if there's anything similar in your state
06:41:59 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: failing that, rent the cheapest and nearest possible space you can that you can get an okay internet connection to
06:42:22 <ehird> *doesn't, not don't
06:42:28 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: in wifi range?
06:42:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: your internet providers are fickle :P
06:42:53 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: that won't be fast
06:43:24 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: wifi draft-n, i assume
06:43:40 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: uhh, it's a lot lot faster than g
06:43:48 <ehird> and a lot of modern routers have it
06:43:53 <ehird> inc. most wifi chips
06:43:55 <bsmntbombdood_> and g is a lot faster than any internet connection in the united states
06:44:02 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: yes, *at short range*
06:44:50 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: like, 2
06:44:55 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
06:44:57 <ehird> they're basically flat.
06:45:12 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: anyway, all you'd need is
06:45:30 <ehird> (a) cheapest and nearest possible space that you can get decent interwebs to
06:45:41 <ehird> (c) mad scientist DIY skills
06:45:49 <ehird> (d) a satellite dish
06:46:04 <ehird> well, two satellite dishes
06:46:18 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: that's a lot less fun :P
06:46:32 <ehird> this would actually be practical, assuming you have the money to blow on the rent
06:47:34 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: well
06:47:39 <ehird> and if such satellitery is legal
06:49:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: you should totally do it
06:49:57 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: why not
06:50:36 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: look up how much it'd cost a month to get the netted storage space
06:51:58 <ehird> suck some rented storage space instead
06:53:52 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_: sweden
06:53:59 <ehird> they have the same net, well, maybe 50mbit instead of 100mbit
06:54:01 <ehird> and also pirate party
06:54:10 <ehird> albeit less oerjan
06:57:38 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
06:59:41 -!- calamari has joined.
06:59:44 -!- kwertii has joined.
06:59:47 <ehird> the ipod touch first generation can boot freebsd
07:00:00 <ehird> i wish to torture you with fun operating systems.
07:00:38 <ehird> Issue: It'd probably involve, like, typing, on that fucking touchscreen.
07:00:56 <ehird> Solution: Wearable computing, again! Have they made those OLED visors yet?
07:03:46 <ehird> It's annoying that I could perfectly well build all the elements of my perfect werable computing rig - ARM computer, head-mounted camera, back-of-head-mounted camera, (single-spec) goggles with mounted fast-but-low-quality pointing at my eye camera (for glance-scrolling and double-blink choosing), and some things near my hands for mousing and keyboarding...
07:04:01 <ehird> the only screen I could have would be opaque and not part of the goggles.
07:04:22 <ehird> Irritating to the max, though otoh, if I have to look at the display separately, that makes eye-tracking less error-prone.
07:11:33 * coppro just discovered his editor has PGN syntax highlighting
07:11:57 <ehird> Your editor is cromulent.
07:12:20 * coppro is disturbed by that insight into ehird's thought processes.
07:12:47 <ehird> coppro: I have overly-sensitive pattern recognition facilities, especially phonetically.
07:13:14 <ehird> I also have a fondness for many small changes resulting in huge long-term changes.
07:13:15 <coppro> bsmntbombdood_: chess notation
07:13:19 <ehird> They are like FREEDOM!
07:13:33 <coppro> ehird: sure, I read it as pigeon. Still, getting from PGN to Simpsons is... well, it's something /I'd/ do
07:13:54 <ehird> coppro: when do you think the others will realise that i'm just sshing in and ircing as coppro
07:14:18 <ehird> it's the kind of joke i'd make!
07:14:24 <ehird> also I am you in agora. and real life.
07:14:30 <ehird> i have two bodies. maybe more
07:14:35 <ehird> hard to keep track, you know how it is with bodies
07:14:52 <ehird> root normal agglutination
07:15:24 <ehird> (h2g2 from "you know how it is with bodies")
07:15:30 <coppro> sorry, was away from keyboard
07:16:18 <coppro> ehird: my name isn't a joke
07:16:26 <coppro> well, isn't /intended/ to be one
07:16:32 <ehird> yes, you'd say that to further the illusion of you not being me
07:16:43 <ehird> I am prone to these antics, and outright revealing it is very silly to do if you want to keep up the ruse
07:16:47 <ehird> and thus people won't believe I am you
07:16:52 <coppro> We're all Ertai [/injoke]
07:16:53 <ehird> thus, indeed, keeping up the ruse
07:18:00 <coppro> ehird: If I'm you, why do you need to convince me of that?
07:18:21 <ehird> I don't. I'm carrying out this conversation so, as per the above lines, people keep believing the ruse.
07:18:23 <ehird> It's part of the fun.
07:18:30 <ehird> I know what you're going to say next, btw.
07:18:35 <ehird> Because I'll type it. But perhaps... not just now...
07:19:30 <ehird> Although it's getting boring waiting. Time to say it.
07:21:01 <ehird> Of course, by constantly amending my intentionally false predictions, I further the illusion of being distinct from coppro.
07:21:08 <coppro> this is like having an argument with myself... crap, that really doesn't sound right.
07:21:38 <ehird> coppro: Exactly like, in fact.
07:21:53 <coppro> so, want to scam Agora?
07:21:56 <ehird> That was an actual typo of mine.
07:22:05 <ehird> coppro: Sure, sockpuppet.
07:22:16 <coppro> precisely the scam I was thinking of
07:22:26 <ehird> Phill would be proud.
07:22:53 <ehird> coppro: something that earned me some months in chokey.
07:23:02 <ehird> I reg'd an alternate email, sent off a registration
07:23:06 <ehird> tick tock, 7 days - you know all this, btw -
07:23:19 <ehird> my incorrect claim to identity was...?
07:23:25 <ehird> Correct? Incorrect? I merged with Phill?
07:23:28 <ehird> I created a distinct entity?
07:23:39 <ehird> - I forget the exact result, but it was mundane and full of punishment and rage.
07:24:20 <ehird> coppro: Well, I did try and do an alt to circumvent something or other, or as an experiment, beforehand, and got summarily slapped on the wrist with a warning from Goethe, so it's not like I didn't know what'd happen.
07:24:24 <ehird> INTERESTING NOTE: You could say that me and coppro are, in fact, different people: not separate physical bodies, but personas; mentally distinct consciousnesses.
07:45:09 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:58:10 -!- calamari has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:05:26 -!- oklopol has joined.
08:15:34 -!- M0ny has joined.
08:15:53 -!- MizardX- has joined.
08:16:44 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:16:45 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX.
08:23:24 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
08:45:56 -!- kwertii has quit ("bye").
08:47:33 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
09:32:27 -!- Pthing has joined.
09:36:11 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:37:03 -!- coppro has joined.
10:55:46 -!- M0ny has quit.
11:28:01 -!- ehird_ has joined.
11:30:24 -!- ehird_ has quit (Client Quit).
11:30:39 -!- ehird_ has joined.
11:31:47 -!- ehird has quit (Nick collision from services.).
11:31:48 -!- ehird_ has changed nick to ehird.
11:32:08 <AnMaster> ehird, oh thought you were testing a new client or such.
11:32:16 <ehird> Nah, the power cut.
11:32:19 <ehird> Then I updated Colloquy.
11:32:34 <ehird> — good thing my disk wasn't being written to when it cut, eh.
11:34:27 <ehird> waste of money. and they buzz.
11:34:38 <ehird> (note: not a waste of money - for datacenters)
11:34:45 <ehird> AnMaster: some electronics stuff
11:34:53 <ehird> don't know the exact reason
11:35:41 * ehird wonders why all computer cases are ugly
11:35:46 <AnMaster> ehird, btw you saw what I said a few days ago about sun + screen right?
11:35:56 <ehird> with the exception of... the mac pro. oh, and the antec p182
11:36:03 <ehird> AnMaster: ehh, how many days
11:36:04 -!- ehird has left (?).
11:36:08 -!- ehird has joined.
11:36:08 -!- ehird has left (?).
11:36:13 -!- ehird has joined.
11:36:18 <ehird> i need to stop hitting cmd-w
11:36:56 <AnMaster> so could be the weekend earliest
11:37:03 <ehird> ehh can't you just tell me yo
11:37:19 <ehird> 02:23:13 <AnMaster> ehird: I tried outside in direct sunlight today. Hard to read, but still not impossible if at brightest setting. Impossible to read at 70% brightness in direct sunlight
11:37:19 <ehird> 02:23:37 <AnMaster> also depends on exact viewing angle it seems
11:37:22 <ehird> I responded to that
11:37:32 <ehird> I definitely read it
11:37:50 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway I hope that answers all the questions you had?
11:38:09 <AnMaster> ehird, oh and any idea of a program for linux to measure your typing speed
11:38:24 <AnMaster> I'm interested in both average and max (that is burst)
11:38:33 <ehird> there's a good online one that shows you a random text snippet as you start
11:38:36 <ehird> so you can't memorise it
11:38:42 <ehird> although you might want to test typing
11:39:18 <ehird> but speaking of laptop displays
11:39:19 <AnMaster> ehird, well that would be much slower, since atm I know 1-2 words in advance what I will type and can move my hands in the right position
11:39:19 <ehird> "In other^2 news, I have discovered a means whereby ordinary laptop screens may be viewed legibly in very bright sunlight. The experimental prototype is 80% complete, and will hopefully stop eating my attention and desk space in the very near future."
11:39:29 <ehird> albeit from june last year
11:39:52 <ehird> Lisp machine, filesystem-abolishing, metacircular, type thing revival.
11:40:00 <ehird> "insane" is misleading; the current systems are insane.
11:40:04 <AnMaster> ehird, also what was the secret?
11:40:20 <AnMaster> ehird, the "means" he mentioned
11:40:31 <ehird> All I know is what I pasted. I have asked him
11:41:07 <ehird> Do you derive pleasure from mashing random words you hear together and calling them concepts? I get that feeling from you
11:41:28 <AnMaster> ehird, I didn't mean it as a concept
11:41:30 <ehird> You do it very often if you don't enjoy it then
11:41:38 <ehird> AnMaster: so you mean lisp laptop as a non-concept
11:41:40 <AnMaster> but I just wanted a lisp machine in a laptop
11:41:46 <ehird> and then remarked on it being a fun idea, despite not being a concept
11:42:13 <AnMaster> ehird, fun idea to build, if I knew how
11:42:20 <ehird> AnMaster: It exists.
11:42:22 <ehird> Do you have a laptop?
11:42:31 <ehird> Quick, wipe it. Install 64-bit linux.
11:42:34 <ehird> Pirate OpenGenera.
11:42:59 <AnMaster> ehird, so... did you get opengenera working
11:43:07 <ehird> I could easily if I wanted, but I'm lazy.
11:43:23 <AnMaster> ehird, no luck with the new ubuntu I assume?
11:43:30 <ehird> Not even worth trying.
11:43:36 <ehird> OG is 90s software; it needs nothing more.
11:43:58 <AnMaster> ehird, source code for snap4 and patch it somehow to work with new X?
11:44:01 <ehird> AnMaster: The least painful way, of course, is buying a DEC Alpha workstation.
11:44:05 <ehird> Also, why even bother?
11:44:07 <ehird> It works with old X.
11:44:23 <AnMaster> ehird, bitrot, in a few years getting that old X to work will be quite a pain
11:44:33 <ehird> Doubtful. XFree86 still works.
11:44:59 <ehird> Uhh, yeah. It's also still maintained, officially.
11:45:01 <AnMaster> blergh no alias for interrobang on laptop
11:45:09 <ehird> Least release uh, 2008-12.
11:45:22 <ehird> I think one of the BSDs uses it.
11:45:42 <AnMaster> maybe I should set up a vm with netbsd
11:45:48 <AnMaster> it is the only bsd I haven't tried
11:45:55 <ehird> AnMaster: You've tried DragonflyBSD?
11:46:13 <ehird> AnMaster: It has freezable processes!
11:46:17 <AnMaster> ehird, s/only bsd/only "classical" bsd/
11:46:27 <ehird> And AWESOME jails.
11:46:38 <ehird> AnMaster: Dude, 4.3BSD, man.
11:46:40 <AnMaster> ehird, how do they differ from freebsd jails?
11:46:48 <ehird> They're more sandboxy
11:46:49 <AnMaster> ehird, well yes, I tried that too
11:47:05 <ehird> Since October 10, 2006 PC-BSD has been supported by the enterprise-class hardware solution provider iXsystems.[1] In November 2007, iXsystems entered into a distribution agreement with Fry's Electronics whereby Fry's Electronics stores nationwide carry boxed copies of PC-BSD version 1.4 (Da Vinci Edition).[2] In January 2008, iXsystems entered into a similar agreement with Micro Center.[3]
11:47:09 <AnMaster> ehird, well it did under qemu a few years ago
11:47:34 <AnMaster> ehird, iirc vmware and 4.3BSD had a hate-hate relationship though
11:48:07 <AnMaster> ehird, hm... nop, was 4.3 I tried I think. Not completely sure though
11:48:15 <ehird> I didn't mean your line
11:48:20 <ehird> I just realised that 4.3 isn't the latest
11:48:34 <ehird> AnMaster: Incidentally, I learned today that FreeBSD runs on the iPhone.
11:48:45 <ehird> Now if only it had a keyboard.
11:49:01 <AnMaster> since it seems 4.3 wasn't for x86
11:50:07 <ehird> Oh, I also told bsmntbombdood_ to rent out some cheap space near him that can get alright internet access and use the two satellite dishes he has to beam 'er up to his impoverished-internet home via WiFi.
11:50:17 <ehird> Which is of highly questionable legality; practicality.
11:50:49 <AnMaster> ehird, err I didn't follow that quite...
11:50:57 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_'s home can only get shitty internet.
11:50:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
11:51:05 <AnMaster> ehird, latency is high with sat though
11:51:16 <ehird> It would be possible to rent out some space near his home that has good internet.
11:51:19 <ehird> (because of a better location)
11:51:24 <ehird> He has two sat dishes lying around
11:51:43 <AnMaster> ehird, you mean like a few hundred meters or so would make a big difference for internet quality?
11:51:44 <ehird> Hack up wifi router to use that dish to send, and DIY himself a receiver at his home...
11:51:56 <ehird> AnMaster: Nope; I mean miles. :P
11:52:04 <AnMaster> ehird, oh I see. just the *dishes*, with no sat involved
11:52:19 <ehird> Illegal and *awesome*.
11:52:25 <ehird> IMMA CHARGIN MAH WIFI
11:52:30 <ehird> IMMA FIRIN MAH WIFI
11:53:08 <AnMaster> well no, but that was the only way those references made sense to me
11:53:18 <ehird> Then you're stupid. :p
11:53:45 <AnMaster> ehird, it went like dish -> dish shape with the laser thingy of the death star in Star Wars -> laser
11:54:06 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway, what frequency do they use?
11:54:18 <ehird> They're DirecTV dishes.
11:54:34 <AnMaster> oh and with very good *directional* antennas I think you could actually do it legally. Maybe
11:54:46 <AnMaster> without going above allowed tx power
11:54:47 <ehird> How much would that cost?
11:54:53 <ehird> We're already talking a bunch for the rent
11:55:06 <AnMaster> ehird, well... a very very very good cantenna?
11:55:24 <ehird> The idea is to keep it plausible. :P
11:55:30 <ehird> (given reasonably large budget)
11:55:53 <ehird> AnMaster: I wonder if it'd be possible to run ethernet cables instead.
11:55:58 <AnMaster> ehird, well, I heard of wifi across a km
11:56:10 <ehird> We're doing WiFi, that's a given.
11:56:24 <AnMaster> with one directional antenna at computer, and a normal access point
11:56:41 <AnMaster> so directional antennas at both end would probably manage a bit further than that
11:56:45 <ehird> I wonder how much a few miles of ethernet cable cost.
11:57:00 <ehird> Total distance between an Ethernet Transmitter and Receiver at the absolute end points of the network (maximum diameter from origin to final destination, if the wires were stretched out to form a straight line): 100 Meters (328 ft., 109 yds., or about the length of a football field). This limitation results from the timing of the Ethernet signals on the cable and not necessarily the cable characteristics, and is, therefore, a "hard" number.
11:57:01 <AnMaster> ehird, um. won't work, isn't max length like 100 meters
11:57:06 <ehird> AnMaster: just have routers
11:57:25 <ehird> AnMaster: run a really long power cbale
11:57:55 <AnMaster> ehird, fiber will manage quite far with no repeaters
11:57:57 <ehird> AnMaster: but where would you put it
11:58:02 <ehird> you can't put them underground, that's illegal
11:58:09 <ehird> and you can't prop up masts
11:58:13 <AnMaster> ehird, where would you put the ethernet cable then?
11:58:29 <AnMaster> then we are back at good directional antennas
11:58:41 <AnMaster> which I think could actually work, assuming a free line of sight
11:58:47 <ehird> AnMaster: that's implausible
11:58:54 <ehird> we're not talking about the middle of nowhere here
11:59:21 <ehird> Even if where bsmntbombdood_ lives is isolated,
11:59:26 <ehird> The place where the good internet is,
11:59:28 <ehird> Would not be isolated,
11:59:35 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah I see the issue...
11:59:35 <ehird> Even if bsmntbombdood_ has bad internet,
11:59:38 <ehird> In his non-urban place.
11:59:42 <AnMaster> ehird, well you want to fry those urban places?
11:59:49 <ehird> Who gives a fuck about urban places!
11:59:52 <AnMaster> which is what the alternative to free line of sight would be
11:59:56 <oklopol> yay, i debugged my haskell program for hours because it inferred the return type of scale to be Int instead of Integer \o/
12:00:09 <ehird> AnMaster: Or, a bunch of satellite dishes, chained
12:00:16 <oklopol> all my errors seem to be bignum errors nowadays
12:00:21 <ehird> Though you have to rent a 349583459873453495 places
12:00:24 <ehird> AnMaster: Rent a bunch of places, duh
12:00:27 <ehird> Daisy chaining them
12:00:57 <ehird> pikhq has sat internet.
12:01:03 <ehird> bsmntbombdood_'s 1mbit connection is faster.
12:01:13 <AnMaster> but who cares about latency ;P
12:01:36 <ehird> Anyway, he said moving would probably be the best option.
12:01:39 <ehird> But thought experiment, bitch.
12:01:43 <AnMaster> well, apart from gamers, people using irc, and most people using TCP
12:02:05 <ehird> IRC uses TCP, fun fact.
12:02:24 <AnMaster> ehird, well yes. Why not just hack google's plans for new data centers to place one next to him
12:02:32 <ehird> Remember what I said about plausible?
12:02:45 <AnMaster> ehird, oh, *plausible* thought experiment
12:03:10 <ehird> It's esoteric because it's not something you'd ever do.
12:03:15 <AnMaster> ehird, and I know about irc using tcp :P
12:03:19 <ehird> But that doesn't mean the solution has to be impractical; it's easy to be impractical.
12:03:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit.
12:03:54 <ehird> Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
12:04:10 <ehird> It's just totally boring, what you're saying, you see.
12:04:35 <oklopol> any of you have knapsack problem instances you want to approximate fully polynomially?
12:04:47 <ehird> oklopol: http://xkcd.com/287/
12:04:56 <oklopol> that doesn't have a solution
12:04:59 <ehird> oklopol: yes, it does
12:05:04 <oklopol> assuming it's the restaurant one
12:05:13 <ehird> although randall thought only on
12:05:16 <ehird> his code was buggy
12:05:18 <ehird> turns out there's two.
12:05:30 <ehird> so get on it, bitch
12:06:23 <AnMaster> oklopol, how would you do it polynomially? I thought it was NP?
12:06:34 <oklopol> it's a fully polynomial *approximation*
12:06:37 <ehird> You're retaaaaaaaaaaaaaarded
12:06:42 <AnMaster> ehird, oh right, missed that word
12:07:21 <oklopol> knapsack problem and subset sum are both np-complete, but they can both be approximated to any percentage in polynomial time
12:07:30 <ehird> oklopol: gogogogogogo xkcd
12:07:33 <oklopol> fully polynomial means the time is also polynomial in the inverse of the epsilon
12:10:53 <AnMaster> a group of students passing, speaking German. With a guide.
12:11:11 <AnMaster> and then a minute later, one group speaking English
12:11:31 <AnMaster> and just now I think Italian, but not completely sure
12:11:38 <AnMaster> could be some other similar language
12:12:06 <AnMaster> ehird, I can't think of a good explanation...
12:12:12 <oklopol> mine doesn't find it, and neither does http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p454663626.txt, and neither did a guy on #math when that was linked there
12:12:53 <oklopol> so if there is one, i'm interested in knowing what it is
12:12:54 <ehird> oklopol: do you want me to link to 5 billion people solving it or do you want to avoid the embarrassment and fix your code
12:13:21 <ehird> oklopol: first one i found: http://paddy3118.blogspot.com/2009/06/xkcd-knapsack-solution.html
12:13:23 <AnMaster> ehird, oh probably student exchange thingy
12:13:31 <oklopol> there is a solution if you assume the 7 is actually a 1
12:13:46 <oklopol> but that would be a weird assumption
12:13:52 <ehird> oklopol: http://paddy3118.blogspot.com/2009/06/xkcd-knapsack-solution.html
12:14:03 <AnMaster> ehird, at least that is my best guess
12:14:49 <oklopol> oh you can choose two of one?
12:14:49 <ehird> oklopol: so there, bitch
12:14:52 <ehird> ........................
12:15:00 <ehird> of course it's impossible if you can't
12:15:16 <oklopol> of course? that's the usual subset sum :P
12:15:19 <ehird> of course you can choose more than one of one.
12:15:25 <ehird> otherwise it's trivially impossible
12:15:33 <AnMaster> oh indeed, introduction for exchange students
12:15:34 <oklopol> if you can choose two of one, then in fact it is not an instance of subset sum
12:15:46 <oklopol> because the fucking name implies you choose a subset
12:16:12 <ehird> oklopol: Randall never said subset sum
12:16:12 <oklopol> actually i guess he doesn't say subset sum anywhere
12:16:40 <ehird> http://collison.ie/blog/2008/04/lisp-machines
12:16:54 <oklopol> says knapsack problem, that is usually just one of each, but yeah, that could mean any of each.
12:17:03 <ehird> oklopol: so get on it bitch
12:17:15 <ehird> oklopol: i want approximatorors
12:17:33 <ehird> AnMaster: uh, i answered your damn question
12:17:34 <oklopol> my approximator doesn't allow you to take any of each
12:17:45 <ehird> oklopol: fix it :P
12:17:52 <ehird> oklopol: uh, aren't all NP problems reducable to another
12:17:55 <oklopol> at least yet, i'm planning to include that too, later, but it's rather complicated
12:17:57 <AnMaster> ehird, oh I was trying to make a joke about snap ;P
12:17:57 <ehird> so reduce the multi one to ... single one
12:18:06 <oklopol> god i hate talking to you about math
12:18:14 <ehird> oklopol: umm, I'm pretty sure they are
12:18:15 <oklopol> you're so fucking smug and don't know shit
12:18:22 <oklopol> THEY AREN'T SHUT THE FUCK UP
12:18:25 <ehird> i could stop talking to you if you want
12:18:41 <ehird> ...or not, because i enjoy irritating you
12:18:58 <oklopol> ehird: the multi one can be trivially reduced to the single one by adding many of the same object.
12:19:04 <AnMaster> ehird, damn. I was going to ask you if you would stop talking if I asked you as well
12:19:13 <oklopol> but i'm not going to implement that because i'm implementing a better scheme for that later.
12:19:55 <oklopol> the obvious enhancement is to have only the "binary digits" of each object, have on of the object, one of it*2, one of it*4 etc
12:20:10 <oklopol> but there are better ways still, iirc
12:20:27 <oklopol> the whole problem drops like an order or something
12:20:38 <oklopol> you can approximate better
12:21:41 <oklopol> ehird: anyway all np-complete problems can reduced to each other, the *definition* of np-complete is a problem is in it if it's in np, and all that is in np can be reduced to it.
12:22:11 <ehird> "np-complete is a problem is in it if it's in np"
12:22:17 <ehird> so np-complete subset-of np?
12:22:31 <oklopol> np-hard is when you drop the requirement of being in np
12:22:32 <ehird> I didn't know np != np-complete
12:23:29 <AnMaster> <ehird> I didn't know np != np-complete <-- seriously?
12:23:32 <ehird> vaguely, I mean I know what's in np and shit
12:23:38 <ehird> and I think I know the basics of its definition
12:24:04 <oklopol> what are the basics of its definition?
12:24:08 <ehird> AnMaster: please do not act incredulous at a piece of knowledge I lack in future or I will be forced to dig up a billion obvious things you didn't know either
12:24:23 <oklopol> AnMaster: do you know what np is?
12:24:25 <AnMaster> ehird, it isn't as if you didn't already do that
12:24:27 <ehird> oklopol: not having an O(n) solution, obvs, and then other stuff. i'm sort of tired
12:24:36 <ehird> oklopol: worthless asking AnMaster that, he'll just go look it up on wp
12:25:12 <AnMaster> oklopol, well yes. the complexity class of Non-polynomial problems. IIRC that is non-polynomial in time, non-polynomial for memory being some other class?
12:25:30 <oklopol> better that he looks up, learns and lies than that he just doesn't know.
12:25:32 <ehird> NP is not non-polynomial
12:25:43 <ehird> it's nondeterministic polynomial.
12:26:03 <AnMaster> oh mixed it up with np-complete. At least I knew NP != NP-complete
12:26:04 <ehird> so AnMaster, you seriously just "seriously"'d me for something you don't know yourself :)
12:26:09 <oklopol> AnMaster: basically you have a machine that has amb. whatever it does in polynomial time is in np.
12:26:31 <AnMaster> well np-complete you can verify in polynomial
12:26:40 <oklopol> AnMaster: that's the other definition
12:26:51 <ehird> AnMaster: that's exactly the wording on wikipedia
12:26:56 <ehird> somehow i doubt the originality of that thought
12:27:28 <oklopol> the verification idea is more accessible to most ppl, but it's less general, that is, stuff like ATM's are harder to describe like that
12:27:34 <AnMaster> ehird, it is? I don't have browser open. I don't claim I thought of it myself, I read about it some time ago
12:27:38 <oklopol> so it's kinda like learning calculus the intuitive way
12:27:52 <oklopol> it's easy and fun, but it's useless if you wanna learn topology later
12:27:55 <AnMaster> must be a few months ago I last read about np-complete and such
12:28:27 <oklopol> AnMaster: you can verify *NP* in polynomial time
12:28:56 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: that's exactly the wording on wikipedia <-- what page, just opened browser on np-complete and checked
12:29:02 <AnMaster> "# Any given solution to the problem can be verified quickly (in polynomial time); the set of problems with this property is called NP."
12:29:08 <AnMaster> doesn't look like the same wording
12:29:20 <ehird> clearly, AnMaster, it only counts if you copy the bytes 1:1
12:29:27 <oklopol> that's the wording i used.
12:30:23 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> well np-complete you can verify in polynomial <AnMaster> that is part of the point <ehird> AnMaster: that's exactly the wording on wikipedia
12:31:06 <ehird> hypothesis: you could kill AnMaster by utilising his urge to smarmily debunk everything you say no matter how long i t takes
12:31:15 <ehird> or how trivial and offhand your original statement was
12:31:23 <ehird> basically, he'd not have any time for food, drink, sleep etc.
12:32:27 <oklopol> i'm far less annoyed by whatever annoying AnMaster did that i didn't notice, than your annoying way to state untrue things about complexity theory without even bothering to memorize the few basic definitions even my mom knows.
12:33:06 <ehird> oklopol: yes, but I relish in stating things without a "but I'm ignorant and might be wrong", because (a) I consider that implicit in everything I say and (b) it riles you up which is cute.
12:35:39 <oklopol> okay sorry i'm just having my period
12:36:11 <ehird> oklopol: i wouldn't put it past you
12:37:02 <AnMaster> ehird, actually I was eating a sandwich while I was chatting above :P
12:37:55 <oklopol> actually my mom has no idea what the whole nondeterministic stuff is all about, even though i've tried to explain it like a gazillion times
12:38:08 <ehird> that is because she is your mom.
12:38:26 <oklopol> my dad usually at least pays attention, then asks something completely stupid that shows he didn't understand a thing :<
12:38:38 <oklopol> and i'm like "uhh... sure :("
12:38:49 <oklopol> "you got it, i'll go read now"
12:38:58 <ehird> oklopol: try and explain something I know nothing about to me, and I will be infuriating
12:39:05 <ehird> it'll be theraputic, whereby theraputic i mean hilarious for me
12:39:39 <oklopol> but i suck at explaining anything nontrivial, because i'll just get all like "uhh... can't you just read the algebra"
12:40:06 <ehird> oklopol: let us assume, for the sake of infuriation, that i know no algebra whatever (NO JOKES ABOUT THIS BEING TRUE KTHX)
12:41:05 <oklopol> well okay do you know what groups are
12:41:22 <ehird> oklopol: Nope, because fictional I are mathtardde
12:41:33 <oklopol> algebraic structures, one of which a group is, are these things where you have a set of objects, and a few operations between them
12:41:55 <ehird> oklopol: what's an algebraic structure, what's a set, what's an object, what's an operation
12:42:32 <oklopol> i defined algebraic structure already, a set is an unordered collection of objects, object is just anything, operation is a dude who, given some dudes, gives out another dude
12:42:48 <ehird> oklopol: what's ordering, also i don't get what you mean by dude
12:42:52 <oklopol> and for operation, it's deterministic, it's a function
12:42:53 <ehird> is it like, representing a person?
12:43:03 <ehird> eh? what's deterministic? what's function?
12:43:29 <oklopol> :P is the class of problems even your colon has enough brain cells to compute in polynomial time
12:43:42 <AnMaster> <ehird> oklopol: Nope, because fictional I are mathtardde <-- grammartard too!
12:43:46 <ehird> oklopol: well ask your colon to talk to me!
12:44:17 <oklopol> also even though i could break the ordering thing down, i'm not sure i can break down the definition of a set without introducing predicate calculus
12:44:33 <ehird> what have pebbles got to do with this
12:45:08 <AnMaster> ehird, when are you going to start pretending to be stupid? So far you seem like your usual self ;P
12:45:51 <oklopol> i thought it was a pet name for something
12:45:55 <AnMaster> oklopol, I don't get the calculus <=> pebbles joke...
12:46:19 <oklopol> AnMaster: some of the deadly pebbles in humans are called that
12:46:21 -!- ehird has set topic: What have a dog got to do with this? http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
12:46:31 <oklopol> you know the ones that form around
12:47:04 <oklopol> let's see what my personal internet says
12:47:11 <oklopol> Pathology. An abnormal concretion in the body, usually formed of mineral salts and found in the gallbladder, kidney, or urinary bladder, for example.
12:47:23 <oklopol> you should get one of those, it's handy
12:47:47 <AnMaster> oklopol, oh are those called calculus?
12:48:23 <oklopol> ah you said "what *have* pebbless..."
12:48:34 <AnMaster> well not odd I didn't get the joke. And no interwiki links to Swedish for it.
12:48:41 <oklopol> i thought has, something about the dude being called pebbles 8|
12:48:42 <ehird> you're just dumb AnMaster
12:48:58 <AnMaster> ehird, wrong. I just had no clue about the other meaning of the word calculus
12:50:06 <oklopol> AnMaster: this was the first time i saw the word in actual use
12:50:50 <oklopol> i mean outside text... i think i've heard it outside a dictionary though
12:50:57 <oklopol> (irc != text in this context)
12:51:54 <oklopol> but doesn't the word calculate have something to do with pebbles being used for calculation or something... or maybe it's a mnemonic
12:52:38 <AnMaster> oklopol, yeah it is how you take the medical product of two vectors
12:54:24 <ehird> AnMaster: was that an attempt at a joke?
12:54:40 <oklopol> AnMaster: vectors can't be multiplied :P
12:55:24 <oklopol> well there are many products for them, but usually in a vector space you don't have a V x V -> V except for addition
12:55:30 <ehird> "I started the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. AMA"
12:55:31 <ehird> Do you want 400 or 401 manbabies?
12:55:56 <AnMaster> oklopol, indeed. but I was just making a reference to "dot product", something I'm sure you know about
12:56:35 <ehird> ............................but it wasn't............funny
12:56:55 <oklopol> i can't say whether it was funny or not, i didn't get it, even though i got the reference
12:57:24 <oklopol> something from math, something from medicine, spliced together, like ehird did with calculus
12:57:27 <AnMaster> oklopol, wikipedia page was Calculus (medical) for the other meaning of calculus
12:57:40 <ehird> right, exploding stones
12:58:06 <ehird> didn't you listen to oklopol
13:00:21 <oklopol> AnMaster: it's a common plural of "us"
13:01:47 <ehird> oklopol: isn't it cactuci
13:02:36 <Deewiant> Excuse me while I jump out of the window ->
13:03:02 <ehird> `addquote <ehird> no Deewiant <Deewiant> No?! <Deewiant> I've been living a lie <ehird> yep. <Deewiant> Excuse me while I jump out of the window ->
13:03:03 <HackEgo> 77|<ehird> no Deewiant <Deewiant> No?! <Deewiant> I've been living a lie <ehird> yep. <Deewiant> Excuse me while I jump out of the window ->
13:03:16 <Deewiant> It didn't open far enough, oh well.
13:03:46 <oklopol> ehird: 14.85 is what i get for at most 30% error: 5.80, 3.55, 3.35, 2.15
13:04:01 <ehird> oklopol: what about at most 0.1% error
13:04:56 <ehird> <other people> I want to suck your cock <other people> err, wrong window
13:04:56 <oklopol> i've never gotten even near the theoretical worst case
13:04:59 <ehird> <AnMaster> hm <AnMaster> err, wrong window
13:05:15 <ehird> AnMaster is terrified that we'll mistakenly attribute incorrect context to his hmming.
13:05:35 <oklopol> what would need to happen is that the greedy solution be close to its worst case
13:05:58 <oklopol> but it usually finds the correct solution for random input
13:06:03 <oklopol> or at least very close to it
13:06:16 <oklopol> i'm sure you all know what "the greedy algo" is for knapsack
13:06:46 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster is terrified that we'll mistakenly attribute incorrect context to his hmming. <-- yes that would be horrible
13:07:04 <ehird> the other end of the spectrum is augur
13:07:15 <ehird> when he says "I want to suck your cock", it's hard to even find out which channel he meant
13:07:21 <ehird> it's like, his catchphrase
13:07:26 <ehird> other people go "er", augur goes that
13:09:04 <oklopol> heh, the fact the greedy solution is a 0.5 approximation is "folklore" according to one of the papers :P
13:14:17 -!- Asztal has joined.
13:15:58 <ehird> To knapsack is a funny term.
13:16:21 <AnMaster> ehird, [greedy solution] to knapsack ;P
13:16:53 <AnMaster> ehird, but you are ehirding I see.
13:17:52 <oklopol> you are both being very funnoying
13:17:52 <AnMaster> bbiab, going to suspend laptop to move to another building, any scrollback before I announce I'm back will likely be missing due to forgetting to exiting client at home.
13:18:03 <ehird> oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
13:29:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
13:33:13 <AnMaster> <ehird> oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo <-- last line for me
13:33:44 <ehird> you missed a very important line
13:34:36 <AnMaster> http://images.google.se/images?q=vaniljmunk&hl=sv <-- what's that in English
13:35:24 <AnMaster> ehird, vanilla or chocolate filled?
13:36:49 <AnMaster> ehird, oh right, multiple pictures :P
13:37:20 <AnMaster> doughnut with no hole in it, filled with vanilla cream, and lots of sugar on top
13:37:31 <ehird> a falafel, AnMaster
13:37:50 <AnMaster> oh and it is topologically un-equivalent to a coffee cup!
13:37:55 <ehird> a falafel, AnMaster
13:38:17 <AnMaster> ehird, nah that is something else says google
13:38:30 <ehird> in idiomatic usage
13:38:50 <AnMaster> ehird, this is what I'm talking about: http://www.delicato.se/produkt/big/41_appeloch_vaniljmunk.jpg (but no apple in the one I ate)
13:39:01 <ehird> falafel, in the uk
13:39:14 <AnMaster> ehird: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falafel
13:39:32 <ehird> that's not what it means here
13:40:25 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
13:40:37 <AnMaster> oklopol, well there was two possible joke-y interpretations of that at least.
13:40:52 <AnMaster> oklopol, not sure I got the one you intended
13:41:03 <oklopol> i... just said dynamite, sorry :P
13:41:07 <AnMaster> bbl again (scrollback rules above apply)
13:41:11 <oklopol> need to go wash like dishes and stuff
13:41:26 <ehird> AnMaster: wtf were the "jokes"
13:42:37 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("reboot").
13:43:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
13:50:11 <AnMaster> <oklopol> need to go wash like dishes and stuff <-- last line this time
13:50:18 <ehird> AnMaster: wtf were the "jokes"
13:50:46 <ehird> i... just said dynamite, sorry :P
13:51:02 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah, turned out he didn't joke intentionally
13:51:24 <AnMaster> ehird, try at least keep it on one line for one irc line? ok?
13:51:27 <ehird> so what were the """"""""""jokes"""
13:52:04 <AnMaster> ehird, well remember one. will give you a hint: roadrunner
13:52:33 <ehird> HOW IS THAT RELATED TO DOUGHNUTS
13:59:05 <oklopol> so, for some reason, dynamite is the reason you thought falafels were like that
13:59:39 <oklopol> although i don't think you have any attributes of either coyotes or roadrunners, so i don't see how that works
13:59:51 <oklopol> or maybe there was some other way i could've meant it
14:00:26 <oklopol> well there's the obvious "maybe you both explode so i don't have to watch you arguing all day?"
14:09:42 <AnMaster> oklopol, calculate dot product for a coyote(*) throwing a normal sized(**) dynamite stick.
14:10:06 <AnMaster> (*) standing at origio, looking along x axis at road runner
14:10:16 <AnMaster> (**) Cartoon standards for normal sized
14:10:43 <AnMaster> (***) No, it isn't supposed to make sense, if it does, it is just a coincidence!
14:14:45 <oklopol> you are crazier than i am :P
14:19:35 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
14:25:41 -!- sebbu has joined.
14:26:19 <AnMaster> huh? no zsnes package in ubuntu
14:27:38 <AnMaster> but that works with multilib so wth
15:19:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("Page closed").
15:36:07 -!- kar8nga has joined.
15:40:06 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:41:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit).
15:45:47 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:51:09 -!- FireFly has joined.
15:51:21 <oerjan> <AnMaster> oklopol, calculate dot product for a coyote(*) throwing a normal sized(**) dynamite stick. <-- clearly the dot product must be zero, since by cartoon physics the stick will always explode at the site of the coyote itself
15:51:45 <oerjan> regardless of how convoluted a path it takes to get there
15:53:31 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:16:53 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
16:18:40 <AnMaster> oerjan, now calculate the path
16:19:59 <oerjan> it is not deterministic
16:20:16 <AnMaster> oerjan, correct word by word heh
16:20:35 <oerjan> in fact it follows the principle that whatever path you calculate, that will certainly be nowhere close to the actual path taken
16:20:41 <AnMaster> oerjan, DID YOU COPY IT FROM THE TEXT BOOK?
16:20:55 <oerjan> i haven't seen the text book
16:20:59 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Client Quit).
16:21:04 <AnMaster> oerjan, that's what SHE said ;P
16:21:08 <oklopol> did you watch it in cartoon form
16:21:22 <oklopol> that would be one awesome linear algebra course
16:22:18 <oklopol> oerjan: and to clarify AnMaster's joke, she said that to you, that *you* haven't seen the text book. of you know sex. because she thought you sucked.
16:23:09 <AnMaster> oklopol, err... I lost track of the prepositions in there
16:23:49 <AnMaster> the highlight colour confused me
16:23:53 <oerjan> oklopol: hah your secret identity has been revealed, joke_explainer
16:24:56 <AnMaster> oerjan, reference to mezacotta?
16:25:44 <oerjan> joke_explainer is a commenter account there, which explains jokes
16:25:58 <AnMaster> instead of looking like a pun on reddit, it looks like re-add
16:26:18 <oerjan> i suggest you resubtract that pun, then
16:26:29 <oklopol> oerjan: no no joke *clarifier*
16:27:15 <oerjan> oklopol: no use explaining away my logic, that's no joke
16:27:29 <AnMaster> oerjan, that is no explaination...
16:27:51 <oklopol> can i be a joke not understander when it comes to the current pun
16:28:09 <AnMaster> oklopol, that's no moon. Get it?
16:28:19 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes but the typo made it actually true instead
16:28:20 <oerjan> oklopol: yes but you'll have to pay an extra surcharge
16:28:26 <oklopol> AnMaster: no not really :\
16:28:49 <AnMaster> well, episode 4, which was the first one produced
16:28:51 <oklopol> i've seen some of them when they were new
16:29:17 <oklopol> "that's no moon" about some huge mothership
16:29:30 <oerjan> the DEATH STAR, oklopol
16:29:55 <oklopol> is death star the one that looks like a moon
16:30:15 <oerjan> it is rougly spherical, yes
16:30:43 <AnMaster> I suck at popular culture... but seriously oklopol... you are worse
16:30:58 <oerjan> actually it is probably not big enough that a moon that size would have to be spherical
16:31:17 <oklopol> well i take that as a compliment, even though i doubt it
16:31:22 <AnMaster> oerjan, not sure of the scale in there
16:31:40 <AnMaster> oerjan, also physics can go fuck itself in star wars...
16:32:15 <oerjan> you need to invent some way of ftl for a galactic civ, hyperspace is as good as any
16:32:17 <AnMaster> and: what happened to inertia?
16:32:37 <AnMaster> oerjan, worm holes seems at least slightly less implausible
16:32:39 <oerjan> antigravity and inertia breaking are more or less equivalent, i should think
16:33:13 <AnMaster> oerjan, well, what about biology then. Is every planet just one type of terrain?
16:33:21 <oklopol> and hyperspace implies inertia breaking, doesn't it
16:33:36 <AnMaster> oklopol, depends on how you implement it...
16:33:37 * oerjan points out that the Star Wars implausability debate is that way ->
16:33:54 <AnMaster> city planet, desert planet, forest planet, water planet (iirc, wasn't it where the clones came from)
16:34:08 <oklopol> that's a simple physics question
16:34:11 <oklopol> i don't give a shit about sw
16:34:34 <oklopol> i just watch american tv shows
16:34:50 <oklopol> me neither, but i watch tv shows
16:34:52 <AnMaster> and very seldom movies as well
16:34:57 <oerjan> oklopol: hyperspace i cannot say what it implies
16:35:18 <oklopol> oerjan: not simple enough for you huh??
16:35:23 <AnMaster> oerjan, hyperspace could imply folding space time itself. There are issues with that too of course...
16:35:36 <oerjan> AnMaster: well some of those are plausible, given vast difference in planet composition or climate
16:35:41 <oklopol> i guess i just meant if it's > light speed, you need to break inertia because there'd be an infinite amount of it
16:35:47 <oklopol> but yeah dunno hey i haven't idea
16:35:48 <oerjan> but a forest planet seems a bit off
16:36:05 <AnMaster> oerjan, and what about those animals on the ice plantet
16:36:13 <AnMaster> oerjan, you know, that han solo was riding on for example
16:36:42 <oerjan> AnMaster: biology is rarely the strong point of popular scifi i should think ;D
16:36:48 <AnMaster> I just can't imagine that planet supporting the required food. Like you know, plants, predators and all that
16:36:56 <oklopol> and maybe like a snow man that can fly
16:37:48 <AnMaster> oklopol - Making comments that could possibly be considered to be slightly relevant in the right light since <insert relevant year here>
16:38:40 <oerjan> "Various sources state the first Death Star has a diameter between 120 and 160 kilometers."
16:40:00 <oerjan> hm it's bigger than phobos and deimos
16:40:16 <oklopol> AnMaster: it's not a comment, it's a question
16:41:05 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh and why didn't they put the shield generator inside the second death star? I always wondered. Sure it wouldn't be possible early on, but at the point in the movie it had already reached a large enough size to support the generator station shown on ground in the movie
16:41:07 <oerjan> "The original draft of the 2006 IAU resolution redefined hydrostatic equilibrium shape as applying "to objects with mass above 5 × 1020 kg and diameter greater than 800 km""
16:41:29 <oerjan> in other words, a moon the size of the death star would not necessarily be spherical
16:41:43 <oklopol> oerjan: also it's made of pure metal
16:41:44 <AnMaster> oerjan, well earth isn't spherical either
16:41:49 <oerjan> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_planet#Size_and_mass)
16:42:06 <AnMaster> oklopol, I would assume they would use composite materials too
16:42:16 <oerjan> AnMaster: hydrostatic equilibrium is the technical term
16:42:28 <AnMaster> oerjan, what does it has to do with water
16:42:34 <AnMaster> which I assume "hydro" there is about
16:42:39 <oklopol> AnMaster: i mean, it's harder to break than rock.
16:42:51 <oklopol> otherwise it'd be too easy to blast into pieces
16:43:34 <oerjan> AnMaster: water flows, and therefore always reaches equilibrium
16:43:40 <oklopol> so what i'm saying is HSE would apply even less
16:44:08 <oerjan> for a planet, it must have gravity strong enough to overcome the strength of its material, iiuc
16:44:32 <oklopol> you mean that's the definition?
16:44:43 <AnMaster> oerjan, yeah, but weren't it like... molten... back when it formed. Due to impact and such
16:45:29 <AnMaster> anyway my point was that molten material would form more easy in a sphere shape than cold rock
16:45:56 <oerjan> AnMaster: well yeah but it would still collapse into a rounded form if it were solid throughout, iiuc
16:46:38 <AnMaster> oerjan, wouldn't it make the rock crack and such
16:46:49 <AnMaster> so it was just a bunch of stones flying around
16:46:53 <oerjan> well duh the rock cracking is how it collapses
16:47:05 <oerjan> um no because it's attracted toward the center
16:47:19 <AnMaster> oerjan, plus it seems to manage ok on earth, Earth isn't a perfect sphere, and earth is definitely large enough
16:47:44 <oerjan> AnMaster: it's only a bit on the surface though
16:48:01 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes but what would "fuse" them together again? Or maybe that wouldn't be needed
16:48:31 <oerjan> it's the huge pressure deeper inside that cannot be withstood
16:51:22 <oerjan> also it's not necessarily a perfect sphere, because rotation changes the equilibrium form, so earth's bulge at the equator is not an exception to this
16:52:09 <AnMaster> oerjan, about the only plausible "one terrain" planet in Star Wars would be the gas giant with that city in it.... Though the floating city could be disputed of course...
16:52:33 <oerjan> "The amount of leeway afforded the definition could affect the classification of the asteroid Vesta, which appears to have solidified while in hydrostatic equilibrium but to have subsequently been significantly deformed by a large impact."
16:53:04 <oerjan> ^ shows that your moltenness comment can apply to some cases
16:53:20 <oklopol> AnMaster: yes, i know he meant "must be round", i asked *why* it must be round
16:53:27 <AnMaster> oerjan, ah. Where it wasn't hydro-whatever after it became solid? ok
16:53:47 <oerjan> AnMaster: or at least after the impact
16:54:04 <oklopol> oerjan: for a planet, it must have gravity strong enough to overcome the strength of its material, iiuc <<< why must it have that strong a gravity?
16:54:20 <oklopol> is it part of the definition
16:54:25 <AnMaster> oklopol, your question is highly nonsensical
16:54:29 <oerjan> oklopol: yes, since 2006
16:54:44 <oerjan> planet and dwarf planet includes that
16:55:07 <oerjan> yes, but it doesn't satisfy the further requirement for non-dwarf
16:55:14 <pikhq> ehird: I do not have sat Internet any more.
16:55:15 <oklopol> oerjan: since 2006 part of the definition, or the question actually made no sense, and you were going with a continuation on AnMaster's "making weird comments since..." joke?
16:55:24 <pikhq> I have campus Internet
16:55:50 <oklopol> i mean why wouldn't that question make sense
16:56:03 <pikhq> What I myself have access to is 100mbps.
16:56:03 <AnMaster> oklopol, why do gravity exist?
16:56:10 <oerjan> oklopol: i don't know what AnMaster was talking about ;D
16:56:18 <pikhq> (I'm limited by Ethernet speeds)
16:56:20 <AnMaster> pikhq, lucky you. I only have wlan on campus
16:56:39 <oklopol> AnMaster: not all things in space have enough gravity to break their own material
16:56:46 <oklopol> say a toy car you throw in there
16:56:55 <oklopol> its gravity will not crack it.
16:57:05 <AnMaster> pikhq, also 100 mbps ethernet?
16:57:21 <oklopol> i'm asking why a planet must have such a gravity, it's not obvious that's part of the definition, why would it be
16:57:22 <oerjan> AnMaster: isn't a desert planet also plausible given that there is almost no water on it? (which i recall was canonically explained as due to a war disaster btw)
16:57:39 <AnMaster> pikhq, or is your computer too old for that
16:57:43 <oerjan> and ice, given that it is freaking _cold_
16:58:18 <AnMaster> oerjan, and still supports large animals?
16:58:27 <oerjan> AnMaster: floating city isn't that bad, there have been suggestions of doing that on venus
16:58:27 <AnMaster> that is the bit I'm having trouble with
16:59:10 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh. I guess they will have to ban all sharp objects
16:59:15 <oerjan> AnMaster: i'm not going to try explaining away star wars biology :D
16:59:39 <AnMaster> oerjan, city planet is also bothering me
16:59:49 <AnMaster> AND WHY NO RAILS (I know IWC mentioned this a lot)
16:59:58 <oerjan> AnMaster: or airships? they're not _that_ vulnerable if well-designed. although recall extreme winds was a problem on venus
17:00:22 <oerjan> AnMaster: coruscant bothers _everyone_. i thought you read iwc ;D
17:00:56 <AnMaster> can't I complain myself as well?
17:01:15 <oerjan> pikhq: you mean you are finally liberated from the satellites?
17:01:27 <pikhq> AnMaster: The dorms are 80 years old, the Ethernet is 10 years old.
17:01:38 <pikhq> They have yet to rennovate.
17:17:38 <AnMaster> pikhq, how much of that is on the uni network?
17:22:19 <pikhq> It then does several Internet2 hops.
17:23:50 <pikhq> It's a network of higher education institutions that has rather ridiculous speeds.
17:24:14 <pikhq> The backbone is about 100 Gbps.
17:25:49 <pikhq> Sorry, that's the link between each node.
17:27:19 <AnMaster> pikhq, wow you are on internet2 :D
17:31:35 <oklopol> so universities decided to make a new internet now that the old one is mainstream
17:32:00 <AnMaster> oklopol, actually I think it was to test higher speed and such
17:32:17 <AnMaster> oklopol, iirc they managed several gbps in tests
17:32:28 <AnMaster> between mainland US and Hawaii
17:32:35 <oklopol> oh it wasn't just because they thought it'd be cool? i see.
17:34:01 <oklopol> several gbps isn't really that hard to do, just have a lot of wires :P
17:34:42 <oklopol> assuming we don't care about latency and similar uninteresting practicalities
17:36:30 <oklopol> i've been trying to drink my coke for about 7 hours now, but every time i open it, it starts spouting everywhere :<
17:36:37 <oklopol> (it was in the fridge a few days)
17:40:46 <AnMaster> oklopol, also you can easily get tbps burst rate. Just ship a container full of harddrives. Latency: huge. Burst bandwidth: Huge. Sustained bandwidth: Low.
17:41:37 <oklopol> and you can sustain a bandwidth by having them go back and forth all the time!
17:41:53 <oklopol> like millions of them, so there's one burst a second
17:41:57 <AnMaster> oklopol, that would require a lot of containers and people filling them up at the same time
17:42:38 <oklopol> it would be the most awesomest network ever
17:43:14 <oklopol> hmm, actually you trade further latency for getting smaller burst distances
17:43:40 <oklopol> by stacking requests up for say a year, then moving to the other side, starting to empty them in the same order and speed
17:43:53 <oerjan> oklopol: have you tried opening it just a tiny bit to let out the gas?
17:44:05 <oklopol> oerjan: i've done that every 5 minutes for the whole time :P
17:44:23 <oklopol> but the coke starts rising, until it's right under the gap and i need to close it
17:44:34 <oklopol> takes ages for it to drop back
17:44:48 <pikhq> oklopol: It's not so much "a new Internet" as it is "really fast Internet links".
17:44:54 <AnMaster> I mean, is it due to the drink being cold or?
17:45:00 <oerjan> ok next idea find a bucket to open it in ;D
17:45:05 <pikhq> (since the whole thing is Internet-routable)
17:45:08 <oklopol> pikhq: i know, it was just a bad joke on the fact the first internet started as a uni experiment too.
17:46:51 <oerjan> defense experiment afaik
17:47:07 <AnMaster> brb, restarting client for upgrade
17:47:08 <oklopol> the uni network pioneered something
17:47:28 <oklopol> well dunno, doesn't matter
17:47:58 <oklopol> brb, have to look out the window
17:51:40 <oerjan> so you'll never know the wicked things we said about you
17:53:39 * AnMaster wonders why the hell he only gets sound on one ear
17:53:55 * AnMaster looks at confusing mixer controls
17:54:17 <AnMaster> it isn't headphones, they give sound on both ears on the laptop
17:54:33 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
17:55:54 <AnMaster> and fuck kmix even more. at least alsamixer showed what was wrong
17:58:52 -!- Slereah has joined.
18:10:05 <AnMaster> joystick no longer found under 2.6.30 kernels?
18:10:06 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:10:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:10:34 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:26:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
18:28:47 -!- puzzlet has joined.
19:13:37 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:16:16 <AnMaster> rudder pedals show up as a joystick (as expected), joystick and throttle doesn't, it shows up as a raw device
19:16:27 <AnMaster> this worked last week and it is broken on both computers
19:16:37 <AnMaster> so what is likely? broken joystick? :(
19:29:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
19:42:28 -!- sebbu has joined.
19:58:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:28:38 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
20:41:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:49:37 -!- pingveno has joined.
20:53:33 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:53:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:58:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
21:33:10 <oklopol> does that imply not all of your days are great, ARE YOU SAYING YOUR LIFE SUCKS?
21:33:45 <coppro> but few of my days qualify as being 'great'
21:34:04 <oklopol> mine neither, but uni starts soon \o/
21:34:06 <coppro> my school has a new tech-savy AP; it's going to be awesome
21:34:51 <coppro> he actually asked if I used SQL
21:35:20 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Connection timed out).
21:37:52 <oklopol> i'm not sure how that's going to affect you
21:41:16 <coppro> oklopol: having a good administration is a good thing. And as the most tech-savy student (probably person) in the school, I stand to be first in line if he reaches out to the student body (actually, there's one other, but he's better at using computers, not running them)
21:42:43 <oklopol> so do you mean like what computer stuff your school should buy
21:43:52 <coppro> no, I mean how computers will be used in the school. The board is afraid of computers; the AP said he wants to push as much as he can
21:45:21 <coppro> and positive interaction with the administration is a good thing... it's amazing how many perks you can get by just asking an AP
21:50:42 * coppro thinks simple smileys like :) and :( should be allowed in formal communication
22:06:18 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
22:10:27 <GregorR> I guess that doesn't make sense with "an"
22:12:14 <oerjan> an anal anatic anathema
22:17:44 -!- pingveno has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:17:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
22:38:27 -!- olsner has joined.
22:41:18 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:41:32 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
22:45:09 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
22:50:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:26:07 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
23:48:48 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:48:53 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:55:52 <ehird> 08:28:09 <AnMaster> oklopol, that's no moon. Get it?
23:55:53 <ehird> can I kill you over the internet.
23:56:08 <ehird> 08:29:55 <oklopol> is death star the one that looks like a moon
23:57:54 <oklopol> i still don't get the moon joke
23:58:07 <ehird> it wasn't a joke, he was just quoting star wars
23:58:13 <ehird> it's funny, you see, to quote things you know.