00:00:05 <oklofok> but that's just one of the meanings
00:00:27 <oklofok> books just keep piling up and they never finish :<
00:00:50 <oerjan> i assume the 64 meanings of chinese "(y)i" have nothing on that one
00:03:40 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
00:13:57 <Ilari> Haha: "scrollkeeper: Depends: rarian-compat but it is not going to be installed". "rarian-compat: Conflicts: scrollkeeper".
00:16:03 <ais523> ok, that's a neat loop
00:16:12 <ais523> are the depends/conflicts on particular versions?
00:16:31 <ais523> loops like that are often used to force two things to be updated simultaneously, by depending on the new version and conflicting on all the old ones
00:16:41 <ais523> but if versions aren't specified, that's really quite failful
00:16:59 <Ilari> I think it would show the versions if they were conflict/depends on version.
00:19:59 <Ilari> Not the worst FAIL I have seen with package management. IIRC, once there was package that was broken enough to make a mess out of package database (it required repair afterwards).
00:21:00 <Ilari> Or actually the package itself didn't mess it, but the installation failed in way that made dpkg mess up the package database.
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00:31:25 <oerjan> fizzie: beware that IKEA tables may explode. http://www.adressa.no/nyheter/trondheim/article1374585.ece
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00:40:19 <fizzie> Gaa. Now I'll have to live in constant fear of exploding tables.
00:41:17 <Ilari> Well, at least the package deps format is so expressive that wheither deps are satisfiable is NP-complete problem... :-)
00:44:39 <oerjan> hm could that be made PSPACE-complete by considering source-based upgrade paths...
00:45:22 <oerjan> (if you sometimes had to downgrade in order to compile something before you can upgrade)
00:45:41 <Ilari> NP-hard by ability to transform Sudoku to deps and in NP by checking being easy. And NP-hard + in-NP => NP-complete.
00:46:30 <oerjan> the "sometimes had to downgrade" being essential to make it possibly harder than NP, here
00:46:49 <Ilari> oerjan: Can those paths blow up exponentially?
00:47:07 <oerjan> if it was complicated enough...
00:48:30 <oerjan> if you have to go back and forth enough.
00:48:57 <Ilari> Still not as bad as one game (Enigma): In that game "Is this level possible?" is RE-complete(!).
00:49:36 <oerjan> turing completeness tends to do that :)
00:49:44 <oerjan> (i assume that would be why)
00:50:32 <ais523> Ilari: which level is that?
00:51:03 <Ilari> Yeah. Usually most of level file is Lua code (it can get callbacks that can modify the map and it even initially lays out the map).
00:53:04 <Ilari> ais523: Probably none of the standard levels. But it isn't difficult to design a level that's only possible if some turing machine halts on empty tape...
00:53:29 <ais523> after all, levels are written in Lua
00:53:45 * ais523 has actually written levels for Enigma that will be in the next version
00:55:31 <Ilari> If there are no callbacks to Lua code, its still PSPACE-complete (use pushable blocks and switches tied to openclose message to emulate sokoban).
00:56:26 <Ilari> (PSPACE-hard definitely)
00:57:12 <Ilari> Since the initial level layout might put superpolynomial amount of stuff to level...
00:58:35 <oerjan> depends whether you consider the layout size to be the size parameter...
00:58:43 <Ilari> But without callbacks to Lua and initial layout assumed to halt, its definitely recursive.
00:59:11 <Ilari> Input size: Size of Lua code for level.
00:59:21 <ais523> Ilari: with an item-generation switch (requires a callback), you can do a Minsky machine with gradients and actors
00:59:26 <ais523> and coins going into coinslots
01:00:21 <Ilari> Well, with callbacks, Lua code can do all kinds of funky stuff...
01:00:47 <ais523> I wrote a Sudoku level
01:02:17 <Ilari> I have written one "more serious" level. Was quite nasty as it essentially involved solving random 16 (easy) or 25 (normal) variable equation over GF(2).
01:02:35 <Ilari> Didn't send it anywhere. Don't know if I even have it anymore.
01:02:48 <Ilari> s/equation/equation group/
01:02:54 <ais523> people have posted insanely impossible levels in the past
01:03:23 <ais523> look up my "test of dexterity" on the forums for one that needs incredibly high levels of mouse control, but is easy to work out the path through
01:06:49 <Ilari> For "looks totally impossible but just requires some nasty tricks": Put long horizontal or vertical stretch (tens of blocks) of "space" floor, and put stretches of abyss to its both sides. :-)
01:08:05 <ais523> there's a level in the dev version based on that principle, but more complex
01:09:13 <Ilari> And I don't mean those few readymade levels that have short such stretches (up to something like 5 blocks), I really mean tens of blocks (or even 100+)...
01:10:39 <Ilari> And of course no umbrellas, forcefields or similar stuff.
01:12:53 <Ilari> 100 block stretch, the window in direction is less than 0.6 degrees...
01:14:05 <Ilari> Other nasty stuff seen: Negative friction.
01:14:16 <ais523> ah, the nightmare levels
01:14:23 <ais523> it's a series of about 5, now
01:14:40 <nescience> but some of the user-made levels for enigma are just silly
01:14:46 <ais523> agreed, some are good though
01:14:53 <nescience> i don't want to sift through them though
01:14:58 <nescience> i KNOW all the oxyd levels are good :)
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01:15:55 <nescience> interestingly, i was just talking about oxyd in another channel
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04:33:32 <ehird> 15:49:30 <fizzie> ehird: Our tables are the "Galant" IKEA ones. But you are no longer here! It is a tragedy.
04:33:36 <ehird> 15:55:31 <oerjan> wait, ehird was in finland?
04:35:09 <ehird> DID YOU KNOW: it is 4:35am?
04:36:51 <ehird> what's the hardest class of possible decision problems?
04:38:21 <ehird> seems like co-re-complete
04:42:33 <ehird> hardest known i mean
04:42:42 <oklofok> an infinite chain is known
04:44:02 -!- ehird has set topic: What about my all insane? http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
04:44:13 <ehird> oklofok: so I slept ais523's 8pm-4am schedule unintentionally
04:45:37 <Ilari> There's also class "ALL".
04:45:52 <ehird> yes, but that doesn't count :P
04:45:57 <ehird> i guess I mean a -hard class
04:46:18 <ehird> Ilari: but ALL also includes impossible stuff, yah?
04:46:47 <Ilari> It includes even indescriable stuff.
04:49:50 <Ilari> RE-complete and co-RE-complete are closely related. In RE-complete problems, algos hang on 'no' instances and in co-RE-complete problems, algos hang on 'yes' instances.
04:50:15 <Ilari> Hardest class where algo that doesn't hang (or abort) is possible is R (Recursive).
04:50:38 <ehird> Ilari: right, but there's no R-complete :P
04:57:32 <oklofok> Ilari: were you at some sorta helsinki-related university as well?
04:58:54 <Ilari> Then above RE and co-RE there is R^RE, above that RE^RE, co-RE^RE, then R^RE^RE, then RE^RE^RE, co-RE^RE^RE, etc...
05:00:30 <Ilari> Recursively Enumerable with RE-oracle.
05:02:18 <oklofok> right, was just wondering what ^ meant, i'm rather unfamiliar with the less practical classes
05:10:01 <oklofok> yay manually grepped helsinki out of you
05:10:22 <oklofok> should probably go do some morning shoppity
05:10:48 <ehird> "I'll grep the shit out of you!"
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05:40:46 <zzo38> I think even CCALL in GASOIL can be implemented using only CALL. I think it will work fine without any conditional commands
05:41:00 <zzo38> (That doesn't mean you should necessarily remove these commands from the GASOIL specification, though)
05:43:18 <zzo38> O, you're out. But obviously you could answer anyways.
05:43:48 <zzo38> CCALL (SWAP;0;=;48;+;CHR;"ccall";&;CALL)
05:43:57 <zzo38> 0ccall (CALL) 1ccall (DROP)
05:43:59 <ehird> looks like uhh, a thing
05:44:25 <zzo38> What looks like what thing?
05:50:30 <zzo38> Do you think this program would work?
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05:56:48 <AnMaster> ehird, did that make as little sense to you as it did to me?
05:57:11 <ehird> It'll be something about one of his five thousand new languages that we're meant to intimately follow the development of.
06:00:43 <ehird> He just forked someone else's language, like usual
06:00:53 <ehird> just suggested a change
06:04:24 <AnMaster> ehird, what is your opinion on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_effect ?
06:04:56 <ehird> It starts with a bullet point instead of a summary of the article with the title bolded, and the first letter is lowercase.
06:05:07 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mozart_effect&diff=prev&oldid=309016115
06:05:12 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mozart_effect&diff=next&oldid=309016115
06:05:49 <ehird> AnMaster: Anyway, it'll just be intricate music that does it.
06:06:03 * ehird reverts the vandalism
06:06:05 <AnMaster> ehird, so you think it might work?
06:06:24 <ehird> I don't think it makes you smarter, I think it ...
06:06:38 <AnMaster> ehird, well yeah, I'm talking about the the short term effect mentioned
06:06:39 <ehird> It doesn't overclock your brain, it just runs an intensive computation.
06:06:43 <ehird> To disable the power-saving mode.
06:07:12 <ehird> No, it's not, because it implies that the Mozart would have a high enough cognitive overhead as to be intensive on your thought processes, thus not actually helping.
06:07:14 <ehird> But it's close enough.
06:07:47 <ehird> Anyway, eight to nine points isn't exactly earth-shattering.
06:07:52 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah, that analogy is probably closer to SchΓΆnberg
06:08:02 <ehird> And if you're not really a Mozart fan, you'll just get annoyed, defeating the point.
06:08:16 <AnMaster> ehird, well luckily I'm a Mozart fan :)
06:08:43 <ehird> classical generally sucks *mauled*
06:08:49 <ehird> (<AnMaster> Romantic blah blah)
06:09:14 <AnMaster> ehird, music taste differs a lot so meh
06:10:00 <AnMaster> also classical differs a lot. Mozart is generally quite "easy" to listen to. Compared to some other classical composers. Such as Kraus for example.
06:10:59 <ehird> i basically like two kinds of music equally, fucking weird stuff that most people wouldn't call music, and then pretty much straightforward stuff
06:11:02 <ehird> not really a middle ground
06:11:56 <AnMaster> ehird, and classical would be in that middle ground I guess?
06:12:10 <ehird> most of it at least
06:12:36 <AnMaster> because I wouldn't call classical straight-forward. Nor "fucking weird stuff" (in most cases).
06:13:31 <AnMaster> ehird, I think you would like Schoenberg, at least his middle period
06:13:40 <ehird> i listened to some the last time you mentioned him
06:15:59 <AnMaster> ehird, is http://xkcd.com/ broken for you too?
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06:17:03 <zzo38> It isn't something about one of his five thousand new languages that we're meant to intimately follow the development of.
06:17:26 <zzo38> It is a comment about GASOIL (it's also on the talk page)
06:19:33 <AnMaster> well I have listened to some Mozart... just in case ;)
06:21:17 <ehird> defrag your memory next: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW0mBYZm6Uc
06:21:23 <ehird> (note: memory defragmentation is painful.)
06:21:31 <ehird> (do not use if pregnant or not pregnant)
06:21:53 <ehird> hmm make that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW0mBYZm6Uc&fmt=18
06:21:57 <ehird> stupid mono youtube regular quality
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06:46:02 <ehird> Deewiant: That weird javascript/haskell code thing is supercollider
06:46:08 <ehird> http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/9f323/1m53s_in_haskell_code_spotted_on_bbc_video/c0ciwqw?context=1
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07:05:59 * Rugxulo has trouble finding good Befunge 93 examples ...
07:06:11 <Rugxulo> I mean, I found some, but I am surprised there aren't more
07:09:05 <ehird> there are probably about 100 b93 programs total
07:09:15 <ehird> of which 30 are even worth looking at, maybe
07:09:46 <Rugxulo> am I wrong or doesn't Brainf*** have loads more?
07:09:55 <Rugxulo> or maybe it just seems that way
07:10:28 <ehird> It is much more popular.
07:10:32 <ehird> Rugxulo: look at befunge-98.
07:10:38 <ehird> it's bloated, but there are quite a few programs
07:10:41 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot
07:10:44 <ehird> β fungot the IRC bot.
07:10:45 <fungot> ehird: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
07:10:58 <ehird> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob_plain/HEAD:/fungot.b98
07:10:59 <fungot> ehird: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! you are crono. why not? then you should leave quickly! are you leaving! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone ca
07:11:01 <ehird> Be afraid, be very afraid.
07:11:34 -!- ehird has set topic: then you should leave quickly! are you leaving! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone ca http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
07:12:06 <Rugxulo> yeah, haven't really looked at Befunge-98 yet, looks odd
07:12:17 <Rugxulo> and Concurrent Funge (or whatever), lol
07:12:54 <ehird> it is, uhh, a little bloated
07:12:57 <ehird> also don't use cfunge.
07:13:15 <Rugxulo> (although I can't anyways, doesn't support my preferred platform)
07:13:41 <ehird> Shock! AnMaster makes it work on EVERYTHING that supports the intimate byclauses of the POSIX standard!
07:13:53 <ehird> HE DEDICATES HIS LIFE TO ITS PORTABILITY! There cannot be a single platform it does not support!
07:14:03 <Rugxulo> well, my platform isn't quite 100% POSIX
07:14:12 <ehird> Rugxulo: I'm being sarcastic
07:14:30 <Rugxulo> in the readme he claims Cygwin *might* work
07:14:35 <ehird> Rugxulo: It won't.
07:14:50 <ehird> Don't worry, AnMaster will be happy to condescendingly mention how your platform isn't true POSIX.
07:14:51 <Rugxulo> and no, I actually wanted to use DJGPP, but alas ... ;-)
07:15:01 <Rugxulo> along with every other GNU nerd ...
07:15:21 <ehird> Wait, did you say windows was your *preferred* platform?
07:15:28 <Rugxulo> God forbid anybody write anything "portable" that is actually, erm, portable!
07:15:29 <ehird> Please don't say that means you actually like it :{
07:15:39 <Rugxulo> actually like what? cfunge or DJGPP
07:15:51 <ehird> Rugxulo: heck, I don't bother supporting the heap of windows shitapis, but I don't make a claim to portability, either
07:16:29 <Rugxulo> it just feels hollow to brag about portability when all you support is "POSIX" (aka, Linux and whatever wants to be as popular as Linux)
07:16:45 <ehird> actually, it works on SunOS I think
07:17:31 <Rugxulo> he should try Minix and see if that works
07:18:08 <ehird> don't try and read the code, by the way; he changed the initialisation of fungespace to use inline ASM with vector operations because the C loop was a few milliseconds shorter
07:18:12 <ehird> (and was identified as a "bottleneck")
07:18:16 <Rugxulo> anyways, it doesn't matter, I'm happy with the default BEF.C (B93) interpreter for now
07:18:22 <ehird> that attitude is applied, uhh, pretty uniformly
07:18:34 <ehird> Rugxulo: AnMaster's pet revision of befunge-98 that nobody needs.
07:18:47 <Rugxulo> but why not just call it "09" ? :-)
07:18:58 <ehird> Because Chris Pressey told him to.
07:19:19 <ehird> Rugxulo: It clears up a few edge cases everyone agrees on anyway, and turns fingerprints into URIs instead of compact 4-character names, even though that makes all code so much more uglier, and nobody has EVER needed it, and nobody else cares
07:19:26 <ehird> Rugxulo: He asked Chris Pressey if he could use the name.
07:20:00 <Rugxulo> and, what, "Befunge09" is trademarked or something?
07:20:08 <ehird> no, chris pressey just made befunge-93.
07:20:15 <ehird> besides, -09 would be 1909.
07:20:22 <ehird> it's befunge-{years since 1900}.
07:20:45 <ehird> So does your mom :P
07:20:47 <Rugxulo> even the *nix epoch doesn't start until 1970
07:21:05 <ehird> It's a reference to Y2K, ffs.
07:21:12 <ehird> A bunch of sites did "19"+twodigityear.
07:21:18 <ehird> Or "'"+twodigityear.
07:21:31 <ehird> So we got sites saying "It's 13 January '100"
07:22:42 <Rugxulo> heh, looking at his vectorization code :-)
07:23:04 <Rugxulo> God knows why anybody prefers GNU inline syntax
07:23:22 <ehird> he's ranted about how much intel asm sucks so much
07:23:25 <ehird> (despite being rebutted)
07:23:26 <Rugxulo> (and m4 + sh for autoconf), Befunge is *less* obfuscated ;-)
07:23:38 <ehird> you're lucky he isn't here right now, or there's about a 70% chance we would be in one of the channel's favourite pastimes, saying nothing while me and him argue noisily
07:24:27 <Rugxulo> I'm not convinced that GCC's -ftree-vectorize even does anything (despite 4.3.x's improvements) 99% of the time
07:24:46 <ehird> Rugxulo: His optimised build includes a gcc option that does *unsafe* "math optimisations"
07:24:47 <Rugxulo> God help us when ymm0 (AVX) becomes available :-(
07:24:55 <ehird> I think he once bruteforced a bunch of operations and benchmarked them
07:24:58 <ehird> Also, he fuzz-tests it.
07:25:04 <Rugxulo> -ffast-math ?? or something else?
07:25:10 <ehird> It has unsafe in the name
07:25:29 <Rugxulo> well, I mean, it's good to experiment, even if a lot of it doesn't pan out
07:25:40 <ehird> This is how he does *everything*
07:25:56 <ehird> If you want a befunge-98 interpreter that works well on windows, btw, try CCBI: http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/befunge/ccbi.html
07:26:02 <ehird> Although, hmm, that doesn't link to CCBI2
07:26:11 <ehird> There's a windows binary of 1 there, so should be painless.
07:27:58 <Rugxulo> seriously, how many people program in Concurrent Befunge??
07:28:15 <Rugxulo> most people (me included) can't even handle normal concurrent programming :-P
07:28:57 <Rugxulo> argh, multiline C macros ;-)
07:29:15 <ehird> CCBI also does TRDS, which cfunge never will
07:29:18 <ehird> TRDS lets you travel in time.
07:29:40 <Rugxulo> sed? stream editor? also considered obfuscated ;-)
07:30:32 <Rugxulo> BTW, ever heard of bfd? (tiny DOS Brainf*** compiler)
07:30:55 <ehird> Brainfuck compilers are a dime a dozen.
07:31:07 <Rugxulo> written in NASM, tre cool ;-)
07:31:10 <ehird> take a look at this: http://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/
07:31:13 <ehird> compiles hello world to...
07:31:16 <ehird> PUTS("Hello World!");
07:31:28 <ehird> (AnMaster may now mention inbetween, which is his own utter direct copy of esotope, despite denying this)
07:31:38 <ehird> (and having, like, 3 more minor optimisations)
07:32:35 <Rugxulo> "written in Python", previous link was "written in D", and AnMaster's Cfunge is "written in C99 w/ mmap etc." :-/
07:32:56 <Rugxulo> so it's not as portable as I'd like
07:32:57 <ehird> Python is ubiquitous, CCBI has binaries, cfunge sucks
07:33:02 <ehird> Rugxulo: Seriously?
07:33:02 -!- MizardX- has joined.
07:33:05 <ehird> Name me ONE platform Python doesn't run on.
07:33:10 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:33:14 <Rugxulo> Python 2.5 will be deprecated eventually
07:33:24 <ehird> It will be maintained for years
07:33:28 <ehird> Because nobody uses Python 3
07:33:33 <ehird> And Python 3 doesn't have 3489573498573495 libraries
07:33:35 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX.
07:33:35 <Rugxulo> while even Scons (I think) still runs on 1.5.2 (or whatever)
07:33:35 <ehird> Rugxulo: backwards compatible.
07:33:48 <ehird> It can be migrated at any time.
07:33:49 <ehird> It's short anyway.
07:34:38 <Rugxulo> I just wonder why people bother bragging about portability when all they support is Mac OS X 10.5, Windows 2k or newer, Linux 2.6, etc.
07:34:57 <ehird> What, exactly, would you like to be supported
07:35:11 <Rugxulo> you know what I mean, it's annoying how things are deprecated that work fine
07:36:05 <ehird> Backwards compatibility is a gigantic part of why today's computing sucks.
07:36:16 <ehird> I'm all for dropping the crap
07:37:31 <Rugxulo> but you don't get it, they want to drop 2k, XP, 32-bit, etc.
07:37:40 <ehird> I get it perfectly well.
07:37:48 <ehird> 64-bit x86 has been around since 2003.
07:38:02 <ehird> 2k was released in 2000; XP was released in 2002.
07:38:13 <Rugxulo> no, only 2003 for AMD servers, Intel servers got it in 2004, home users didn't get it (Intel) until 2006
07:38:37 <Rugxulo> Intel was still selling P4s until then (ugh)
07:38:49 <Rugxulo> who knows, they still might (though I doubt it)
07:39:12 <Rugxulo> and you know about the P4, I presume (e.g. not everything "new" is better)
07:39:13 <ehird> they stopped doing pentium 4s in 2008
07:39:42 <ehird> anyway, is there actually a reason you use windows?
07:39:47 <ehird> I mean, apart from masochism...
07:39:59 <Rugxulo> MMX is deprecated, FPU is deprecated, it's all annoying, everybody wants to kill everything that *they* don't use
07:40:08 <Rugxulo> well, it came installed on the machine
07:40:21 <Rugxulo> and I'm not exactly super familiar with *nix (e.g. Linux)
07:40:33 <Rugxulo> and most Linux distros aren't any good
07:40:51 <Rugxulo> or outdated, don't work the ways I want, etc.
07:41:15 <ehird> Linux hasn't sucked since about 2006, and it's been fine since about 2007.
07:41:21 <ehird> It's been great since, eh, 2008
07:41:25 <Rugxulo> their upcoming 9.10 scares me ... too many bleeding edge things
07:41:36 <Rugxulo> potentially will regress a lot in functionality
07:41:50 <Rugxulo> well, the alphas are buggy ;-)
07:42:04 <Rugxulo> and they don't always fix everything before release, so ...
07:42:11 <ehird> have you used 9.04?
07:42:44 <Rugxulo> and I can't even install to a 1 GB flash drive because it's so bloated
07:42:56 <Rugxulo> not saying I'm so super surprised, but damn, very annoying
07:43:06 <ehird> Would you like them to recompress every image as a jpeg?
07:43:12 <ehird> Every system sound?
07:43:23 <ehird> do you want them to hyper-optimise every application binary they include?
07:43:25 <Rugxulo> no, I'm perfectly content with needing 30 GB just to rebuild everything (sarcasm)
07:43:35 <ehird> Yes, because normal Ubuntu users rebuild everything.
07:43:55 <Rugxulo> I don't think "normal" applies to #esoteric ;-)
07:44:09 <ehird> I hate people who want everything to run on ancient, crappy stuff; who want people to spend 80% of their work satisfying 20% of people who could easily upgrade
07:44:17 <ehird> It's such a waste of talent
07:44:52 <Rugxulo> but when things could easily be fixed and certain people refuse (note I'm not talking about Ubuntu here), then that's annoying
07:45:16 <Rugxulo> they just don't care, which is more of a problem than anything technical
07:45:23 <ehird> But you do want them to fit the whole Ubuntu desktop inside 1GB, which would take exorbitant amounts of work and maintenance that could be spent doing much more productive things. The end benefit of this is, uhh, you get to avoid paying a few more bucks for a bigger USB drive.
07:45:39 <Rugxulo> obviously I would install to HD, problem solved
07:45:57 <Rugxulo> the main issue isn't that, it's that they allow you to install to USB but it's more or less useless unless you never install anything ever
07:46:23 <Rugxulo> I'm not just a "surf and e-mail" person, so I can't say that's enough for me
07:46:35 <ehird> So buy a bigger USB stick
07:46:42 <ehird> Shock, horror, extra features take extra space
07:46:57 <Rugxulo> extra features that I didn't ask for, that aren't needed, that should be easily removed (but probably aren't)
07:47:16 <ehird> Oh, that's nice, let's just tailor Ubuntu to exactly what you want
07:47:22 <ehird> [07:39] Rugxulo: [β¦] everybody wants to kill everything that *they* don't use
07:47:30 <Rugxulo> no (although there are a lot of Ubuntu forks, too many IMHO)
07:47:55 <ehird> I can safely say that no, most Ubuntu features are useful.
07:48:04 <ehird> And it's very well polished.
07:49:06 <Rugxulo> and the idea that it does everything right isn't fair
07:49:18 <ehird> then why did you just invent that idea
07:49:26 <Rugxulo> neither Windows nor Ubuntu can cater to everybody, but sometimes they don't even try to do simple things
07:49:39 <ehird> I can assert things too...
07:50:20 <Rugxulo> so, dare I ask, you really expect 100% of home users (and OEMs) to only get 64-bit 4 GB RAM Ubuntu 9.10 computers from now on? I doubt it ...
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07:51:03 <ehird> I could tally up the number of strawman fallacies you've used so far but I'm kinda hoping to spend the rest of the day doing things
07:57:24 <Rugxulo> and BTW, there really should be a Befunge interpreter in Elisp :-)
07:58:04 <Rugxulo> oops, must've missed that it already exists
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08:01:18 <ehird> oh no, not another one of the "let's run a kernel, a scheduler, hardware drivers, ..., and then a woefully bad OS with only one hacky UI element and no task switching" people
08:07:13 <ehird> a windows, emacs and backwards compatibility lover
08:07:19 <ehird> Rugxulo: could i, like, stab you?
08:08:08 <Rugxulo> you could ... except the knife has been deprecated, use phase pistols (coming soon to a store near you)
08:12:20 <Rugxulo> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BefungeMode
08:12:36 <Rugxulo> had to comment out all the hscroll stuff, but otherwise it works great! :-)
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08:21:01 <Rugxulo> oh well, thanks for the (mostly) nice chat ;-)
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09:16:17 <Deewiant> ehird: CCBI2 isn't out yet in any form, which is why the page doesn't link to it
09:16:25 <ehird> Sure, but it's better :P
09:16:44 <Deewiant> In other ways, it doesn't work at all :-P
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10:30:36 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
10:31:06 <ehird> ^def stockintro ul (Who are you, where did you come from, how many goats have you sacrificed, etc? Also, http://esolangs.org/.)
10:31:17 <ehird> ^def stockintro ul (Who are you, where did you come from, how many goats have you sacrificed, etc? Also, http://esolangs.org/.)S
10:31:21 <fungot> Who are you, where did you come from, how many goats have you sacrificed, etc? Also, http://esolangs.org/.
10:31:30 <ehird> got tired of saying that all the time...
11:04:41 -!- FireFly has joined.
11:19:33 <ehird> Nostalgia about Ubuntu 5.10. That's a new one for me...
11:19:43 <ehird> 'specially as I never got it working properly
11:25:43 <AnMaster> <ehird> Python is ubiquitous, CCBI has binaries, cfunge sucks <-- an opinion most people in here doesn't seem to share...
11:26:02 <ehird> I was half-wondering how long it'd take for you to come and defend cfunge
11:26:24 <ehird> But sure; if I was in a mood to debunk stupid arguments I'd mention that a lot of people like Windows too
11:28:06 <ehird> Then why did you ask?
11:28:38 <AnMaster> ehird, so you meant "windows (except windows ME)" there?
11:28:58 <ehird> I wasn't aware that Windows referred to every single OS
11:29:15 <ehird> Whenever anyone says "I use Windows" in future, I will commend them on their uber multiboot system
11:29:21 <ehird> and ask them how they got windows 1.0 running.
11:30:30 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah that would be tricky.... what with several versions of windows wanting to be on the first harddrive, and wanting to be on the primary partition marked as bootable
11:30:48 <ehird> Why restrict ourselves chronologically backwards?
11:30:53 <ehird> Ask them what Windows 3000 is like.
11:31:10 <ehird> What about alternate universes? I don't see why we have to stay still in the fifth dimension, either.
11:31:41 <AnMaster> ehird, by year 3000 I doubt microsoft still exists... ;P
11:31:59 <ehird> Nintendo was founded in 1889
11:32:08 <ehird> Admittedly they did card games and whorehouses and stuff before games
11:32:16 <AnMaster> well, yes, but that is a difference of roughly 100 years, not 1000 years
11:32:56 <AnMaster> ehird, a difference by an order of magnitude I think?
11:33:03 <ehird> Hmm, wait, they did hotels-in-which-to-have-sex, not necessarily hotels-where-you-can-get-sex.
11:33:14 <ehird> This is clearly an important part of Nintendo's past businesses and must be clarified.
11:33:32 <AnMaster> ehird, "bring your own whore"?
11:34:51 * ehird reads the Arc forum a bit for the lulz
11:35:14 <ehird> Hey, http://dabuttonfactory.com:8080/ is pretty cool.
11:35:24 <ehird> It's... basically tryruby for arc :P
11:36:03 <ehird> http://dabuttonfactory.com:8080/evsrv.arc And the code doesn't look shit, like all other Arc code out there.
11:36:16 <ehird> This person is clearly some sort of mutant that can make the worst of languages work well.
11:37:58 <ehird> Oh, I see, they traded in not being fucking weird and defensive for that power:
11:38:00 <ehird> [[If you have chosen another username, OK, no problem (but I can't guess). If you've not tried it, your choice, but then I'll parse your request as "Gosh palsecam is such a moron, an REPL on the browser has no future[1], performance/privacy issue, blahblahblah, but I'll be glad to steal his code for another more useful purpose that I'll not communicate about".
11:38:00 <ehird> I am, at least I hope, certainly wrong on my analysis, but sorry, that's how I read your message. And obviously, I don't like to be taken for a moron. And obviously, I don't like this kind of "stealing".]]
11:38:08 <ehird> (in response to someone kindly asking for the code)
11:39:50 <ehird> Wow, Arc's REPL works differently from its eval.
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11:42:29 <ehird> Jeez, reading this guy's comments is painful
11:42:38 <oerjan> that topic is depressingly close to my mood today
11:42:43 <ehird> He swears an awful lot and he seems to be permanently... way too bothered about stuff
11:42:58 <ehird> That sword alone can't stop, you know.
11:43:04 <fungot> ehird: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's the kind! i've decided to stay with these humans! you're a traitor! you're not our king! but, we are far outnumbered!
11:43:37 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
11:43:45 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
11:44:39 <oerjan> mind you that mood is greatly connected to the fact the neigbor has been using a chainsaw for hours...
11:46:15 <ehird> <oerjan> something about deadness
11:46:18 <ehird> <ehird> even cruder joke
11:46:40 <oerjan> *oerjan something swatter -----###
11:46:41 <ehird> i am crude like oil.
11:47:52 <oerjan> the kind that is not allowed at beaches
11:48:16 <HackEgo> * Ahar is a town and the capital of Ahar County in East Azarbaijan provience, Iran. The town is known on the market place for its Ahar rugs. \ [22]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahar \
11:48:31 <ehird> 798uijkmarket place for its ahar rugs
11:48:53 <ehird> "umm yeah, you flew, so what"
11:49:00 <ehird> "it's not like you're a pizza or anything"
11:49:23 <ehird> wow i want one of them
11:49:36 <ehird> it's a butt that you can fris
11:50:04 <ehird> oxymorons can't help it. they were born with a lack of oxygen
11:51:05 <ehird> no, i never started
11:51:53 <oerjan> <ehird> ALL-complete :P
11:52:06 <oerjan> i doubt you can be ALL-complete, for cardinality reasons
11:52:26 <ehird> oerjan: it's buddhists who are one with everyone
11:52:31 <ehird> they don't have cardinals
11:52:35 <ehird> sheesh you're stupid
11:52:44 <oerjan> you would have to find _one_ problem to which all others could be reduced - but then you could immediately use diagonalization to produce a counterexample, i think
11:53:15 <ehird> It was a joke, you know
11:53:19 <oerjan> s/cardinality/diagonalization/ then
11:56:20 <oerjan> that n could be an infinite ordinal, as well
11:56:45 <ehird> I meant co-RE^n as meaning "equivalent to co-{RE^}*int for any integer"
11:57:30 <oerjan> but it's a small step to use ordinals. see brainhype/banana scheme
11:57:44 <ehird> but mine is more... sensical
11:57:53 <ehird> I mean, it doesn't require making any new concepts
11:58:01 <ehird> just take the union of co-re, co-re^re, etc
11:58:39 <oerjan> in other words, co-re^omega. um wait.
11:58:49 <oerjan> should that be ^^ , or something
11:59:37 <oerjan> (not that i've seen ^^ mixed with oracle notation)
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12:00:56 <ehird> oerjan: yes, but ...
12:01:00 <ehird> mathematically equivalent in the result
12:01:02 <ehird> not in the definition
12:01:08 <ehird> since you have to define exactly what that means for ^omega
12:02:11 <oerjan> true, but it's the obvious way if you know ordinals
12:02:58 <ehird> oerjan: see, I'd expect co-re^omega to be something like "RE with an RE^omega oracle"
12:03:05 <ehird> imo co-re^n expresses it better
12:03:08 <ehird> since it's never infinite n
12:03:10 <ehird> just arbitrary finite
12:03:19 <ehird> in which case ^omega is better, ofc
12:03:30 <oerjan> co- just means switching yes and no results
12:03:59 <ehird> oerjan: ignore the co-
12:04:08 <ehird> for the context of the above β
12:04:11 <oerjan> ehird: except that still ought to be re^^n
12:04:20 <ehird> I was using fuzzy notation
12:04:27 <ehird> oerjan: but is it arbitrary-finite n or infinite n?
12:04:33 <ehird> or are there two classes, one with each
12:04:49 <ehird> well hm, co-RE^^omega has a self-oracle
12:04:58 <ehird> and co-RE^^n would presumably just have a lesser-than-self oracle
12:07:02 <ehird> your mom's an oracle
12:07:19 <ehird> that's what she said
12:07:37 <oklofok> just came here to tell you that
12:07:40 <ehird> oklofok: i found a magic
12:08:57 <ehird> and then the oracle flew
12:09:19 <oklofok> so you found the magic of insane poetry
12:10:33 <ehird> oklofok: yes!!!!!!!!
12:11:37 <oerjan> <ehird> AnMaster: Anyway, it'll just be intricate music that does it. <-- i'll refuse to believe metal could do it, no matter how intricate. (see chainsaw above.)
12:12:01 <ehird> oerjan: did you wait until oklofok left before saying that :D
12:12:16 <oerjan> although, technically yes
12:15:18 <oklofok> technically i didn't leave yet
12:15:32 <ehird> oklofok: be angry at oerjan for dissing metal.
12:15:37 <ehird> i think that is an oklofok thing to do
12:15:42 <oklofok> let's see context, i've been skipping on logreading
12:17:13 <oerjan> why is my food tasting funny today
12:17:24 <ehird> oerjan: it's counteracting your bad puns
12:17:34 <oklofok> i agree with oerjan that metal probably doesn't make you smarter, kinda like mozart doesn't either.
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12:17:50 <ehird> oklofok: there's STUDIES!
12:18:16 <ehird> i'd use all my up-to-nine extra IQ points to dislike the mozart
12:18:18 <oerjan> i was mainly referring to the obvious fact that metal turns your brain into mush, although possibly only temporarily.
12:18:18 <oklofok> us mathematicians don't believe in studies
12:18:28 <ehird> oerjan: i don't think that's true.
12:18:49 <oerjan> well metaphorically, not physically.
12:18:53 <ehird> oerjan: there is a rather obvious solution to that
12:19:42 <oerjan> yes, i _have_ occasionally been considering buying something ear plugs
12:19:52 <ehird> i was meaning more "stop listening to it"
12:19:55 <oklofok> oerjan: you don't have to *start* with norwegian black metal
12:19:57 <ehird> oh wait, was that chainsaw thing i joke
12:20:03 <ehird> made out of metal?
12:20:04 <oklofok> even though you're norwegian
12:20:09 <ehird> was it a pun joke oerjan
12:20:27 <oerjan> no, the chainsaw was real. fortunately it's stopped. for now.
12:20:34 <ehird> was that the pun oerjan
12:20:44 <oerjan> but metal does have the same effect on me, more or less
12:20:53 <ehird> but was the joke that chainsaws
12:20:55 <ehird> are made out of metal
12:21:07 <ehird> if you had said yes, this would have been said:
12:21:08 <ehird> i will kill you oerjan.
12:21:10 <oklofok> also burzum should be called white metal, since it's mostly white noise
12:21:21 <oerjan> you will do that anyway. it's destiny.
12:21:22 <ehird> MY FAVOURITE METAL IS MERZBOW
12:21:54 <oklofok> i don't believe in merzbow
12:22:14 <ehird> oklofok: lol i wikipedia'd burzum and the guy murdered his bandmate and then burned down a bunch of churches :D
12:22:25 <oklofok> yeah the story is awesome :D
12:22:37 <ehird> sounds like a nice guy!
12:22:56 <oerjan> he just got out of jail this year
12:23:07 <ehird> "Β© & Β Varg Vikernes. Do not reproduce, respect the copyrights."
12:23:19 <ehird> you're expecting me to follow a trivial, bad law mister
12:23:25 <ehird> do you see a bit of hypocrisy here :P
12:23:35 <oerjan> ehird: if not, he'll kill you.
12:23:41 <ehird> [[A Scandinavian, for instance, has no good reasons to emotionally react negatively to "nazism"]]
12:23:51 <ehird> Fun fact: You can only disagree with a philosophy if it has a specific aim against you
12:24:07 <ehird> (He then goes on to talk about how nazis are cool or something)
12:24:31 <oerjan> except that they OCCUPIED our country, or something
12:24:55 <ehird> he's saying that the occupiers were cool dudes
12:25:05 <oklofok> "also i like stealing clothes from orphans, then filming cp when they're naked"
12:25:26 <oerjan> oklofok: that an actual quote?
12:25:45 <ehird> oklofok: oerjan is... AnMaster
12:28:09 <ehird> "For each devastated graveyard, one heathen grave is avenged, for each ten churches burnt to ashes, one heathen hof is avenged, for each ten priests or freemasons assassinated, one heathen is avenged"
12:28:22 <ehird> this might sound weird but i think this guy is kind of a dick
12:29:16 <ehird> At the arrest of Vikernes, the police found 150kg explosives and 3,000 rounds of ammunition in Vikernes' home.[28] According to Encyclopedia of White Power Vikernes has stated that these explosives were "intended to blow up Blitz House, the radical leftist and anarchist enclave in Oslo",[16] a plan which "was reportedly on the verge of execution"[16] and only prevented by Vikernes' arrest.
12:29:18 <oerjan> <ehird> Admittedly they did card games and whorehouses and stuff before games <-- i was so delighted when i found out the first part was true, but i can find nothing about whorehouses
12:29:30 <ehird> so he's a nazi who kills people who disagree with him in any wya
12:29:42 <ehird> "love hotels"; not whorehouses though
12:29:54 <AnMaster> <ehird> oklofok: oerjan is... AnMaster <-- why would you think so?
12:30:03 <ehird> [12:25] oklofok: "also i like stealing clothes from orphans, then filming cp when they're naked"
12:30:04 <ehird> [12:25] oklofok: ->
12:30:04 <ehird> [12:25] oerjan: oklofok: that an actual quote?
12:30:30 <AnMaster> ehird, it sounds more like something you would say IMO
12:31:20 <ehird> that doesn't even make sense
12:31:29 <ehird> you're trying to assign "using 's or not after that" to a person
12:31:38 <ehird> protip: linguistic patterns vary at such a low level
12:31:43 <AnMaster> ehird, well not ' then. I get confused by that
12:32:14 <oerjan> yes, i could never be AnMaster
12:32:14 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway... adding "is" there would have worked too
12:32:22 <ehird> oerjan: lol [[Aarseth was a practitioner of theistic Satanism and also a proponent of violence, totalitarianism and state terrorism]]
12:32:27 <oerjan> probably not even if i tried
12:32:28 <ehird> guess he didn't like it when it happened to him
12:33:18 <ehird> "Satanism comes from religious Christianity, and there it shall stay. I'm a religious person and I will fight those who misuse His name. People are not supposed to believe in themselves and be individualists. They are supposed to OBEY, to be the SLAVES of religion."
12:33:21 <ehird> these guys are hilarious
12:33:39 <ehird> he liked stalin and mao :D
12:34:23 <ehird> "for instance, he was an ardent proponent of sodomy, rape and murder simply because they were evil acts"
12:36:34 <oklofok> iirc vikernes' opinion is killing is a nice thing to do to another person... then again probably he just says anything that sounds gloomy and evil
12:36:44 <oklofok> because it's not very consistent with killing enemies
12:36:52 <ehird> oklofok: he's totally jesus
12:37:18 <ehird> oklofok: so is this where you got your desire to kill someone :D
12:37:47 <ehird> In October 2003, Vikernes failed to return to his low-security prison in TΓΈnsberg, Norway after having been granted a short leave. He was found riding in a stolen Volvo car, which, according to the media, contained an unloaded AG3 automatic rifle, a handgun, numerous large knives, a gas mask, camouflage clothing, a laptop, a compass, a Global Positioning System, various maps and a fake passport (it is thought that Vikernes came to be in possession of this
12:37:48 <ehird> equipment by means of a military barracks). For this thirteen months were added to his sentence, and he was then moved to a maximum-security prison in Trondheim.
12:38:03 <oklofok> i don't have such a desire, i just put it on my todo list!
12:38:53 <ehird> i like how this guy and the guy he killed are both guys who think killing and rape and violence and fascism are awesome
12:39:06 <ehird> but the killer hates communists and religion
12:39:22 <ehird> and the killee loves distorted communism and (distorted) religion
12:39:36 <ehird> "I'm violent in a superior way to you RAAAAARGH"
12:40:29 * oerjan ascribes to the theory that bad people come in pairs, who hate each other
12:40:44 <ehird> oerjan: I loooooooove AnMaster!
12:40:55 * ehird does not want to be bad
12:40:56 <oklofok> the worst is this hardcore metal guy who eats insects
12:41:10 <oklofok> i read "ehird does not want to go to bed"
12:41:15 <ehird> oklofok: i don't think that's ... worse than killing someone :P
12:41:18 <ehird> also, that's true.
12:41:33 <AnMaster> I never claimed I hated ehird...
12:41:48 <oerjan> ehird: wait, are you staying up hideously late now?
12:42:00 <ehird> oerjan: how late is hideously
12:42:03 <oklofok> ehird: worst i know, i don't know vikernes, or anyone like him
12:42:18 <ehird> oklofok: i think that's probably the safest option.
12:42:28 <oklofok> but assuming not on his kill list, might be a fun guy to talk to
12:42:43 <ehird> people like that generally aren't very intellectual
12:42:44 <ehird> [[Vikernes also states that although he is a racist, he hates no-one and that "hatred is irrational"]]
12:43:02 <oklofok> assuming not a total retard, i imagine the insane killers are usually either very bright, or very dumb
12:43:06 <oerjan> ehird: i take that as a yes *evil cackle*
12:43:36 <oerjan> more than 24 hours since you last slept, perhaps
12:43:39 <ehird> oklofok: i think he just starts with severely fucked up, contradictory axioms and works from there, perhaps even logically, though most likely mainly based on emotions
12:43:47 <ehird> oerjan: usually, yes
12:43:59 <ehird> oerjan: most common schedule has been sleeping from 1pm to about 7pm
12:44:05 <ehird> or thereabouts, at least
12:44:13 <ehird> oerjan: today I slept from 8pm to 4am
12:44:18 <ehird> waking up from that was weird
12:44:30 <ehird> "it's night!" "but i've slept eight hours" "umm it's pitch black" "am i meant to turn the light on and get up?"
12:44:36 <oerjan> oh right you're on one of those weird sleep thingies
12:44:49 <ehird> cba to do that atm
12:45:06 <ehird> oerjan: right now I'm on the schedule where i don't sleep until i feel too tired to do stuff alright.
12:45:15 <ehird> and then sleep for however long i sleep
12:45:52 <ehird> though due to me starting it off with a night where i slept at 6am, then progressing to 8am, it's skewed so that I'm mainly awake at night
12:46:03 <ehird> though due to waking _up_ at 4am today, that might change a bit
12:46:38 <oerjan> i see you are on the verge of turning into me, then
12:46:44 <ehird> oerjan: how do you sleep
12:47:02 <ehird> it's much better than before
12:47:29 <ehird> [[There are also two different reviews of this book available that are allegedly written by Varg Vikernes, one on www.burzum.org and one on www.burzum.com. Whereas the review on www.burzum.com is only mildly critical and states "The book is pretty much objective"[57], the review on www.burzum.org states: [bad stuff]]]
12:47:31 <oklofok> as long as oerjan owns me at category theory, i'd swap souls with him anytime
12:47:52 <ehird> oklofok: but there is no such thing!
12:48:54 <oerjan> my sleep is constantly shifting forwards, always. how much varies unpredictably per day, 0-2 hours maybe except when i make an effort to stay up extra long
12:49:08 <ehird> oerjan: so it wraps around all the time? :D
12:49:11 <oklofok> ehird: doesn't mean "swapping souls" isn't a perfectly well-defined thing
12:49:35 <ehird> oerjan: that just means that your schedule is defined by how long you stay up, instead of by when you sleep
12:49:42 <ehird> add that to the fact that your body is used to sleeping N hours and voila
12:50:17 <ehird> oklofok: if you connected your brain to oerjan's body, then added some personality traits of his
12:50:26 <oklofok> as well-defined as time-travel, movie rules apply.
12:50:35 <ehird> but you'd just be oklofok with an annoyingly crippled body and some weird personality traits
12:50:51 <ehird> (no offence to oerjan, but his body is obviously crippled due to being older than oklofok, pretty much by definition)
12:51:55 <oerjan> ehird: oh i'll certainly admit to not being in the best shape
12:53:06 <ehird> even if you were, tho
12:53:19 <ehird> can i fly in that rocket :>
12:53:24 <ehird> sometimes i fly around in space :>
12:53:28 <oerjan> sure, if you manage to climb in
12:53:48 <ehird> ----------------=>:>
12:53:50 <ehird> ------------------------=>:>
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12:54:07 <oerjan> i said _in_, not on top. i hope you have no troubles with thin air
12:54:15 <ehird> you broke my chain
12:54:18 <ehird> welp gotta fly back up again
12:54:34 <oerjan> i was just trying to prevent you leaving the atmosphere unprotected
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12:58:20 <ehird> tsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssh
12:58:30 <oerjan> wait a moment i realized maybe you _are_ inside, but in that case you're not having a very good time
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12:58:50 <ehird> from this perspective my eyes are on the ground :>
12:58:55 <ehird> oerjan: also, you interrupted it.
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12:58:59 <ehird> now i have to do it all again.
12:59:03 <oerjan> you were safely landed
12:59:09 <oerjan> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
12:59:18 <ehird> don't worry I won't :P
12:59:24 <ehird> but it was good wasn't it?
12:59:33 <ehird> I especially like how I waited a little bit after the two peaks
12:59:55 <ehird> also, I like how it somehow slowed down as it started to land
13:00:00 <ehird> maybe an anti-gravity landing platform
13:00:56 <oerjan> i don't know, not my platform
13:01:06 <ehird> i didn't ask you :P
13:02:49 <ehird> as i was about to say wrt your body,
13:03:08 <ehird> oerjan: don't worry, I'll make sure I code you in as the first to get a mech body in the seed AI
13:03:23 <ehird> you'll have to stand in line with everyone else to evaporate in the clouds though
13:03:25 <ehird> I will only go so far
13:04:40 <oerjan> "evaporate in the clouds"? i think i may not be up to date on these technical AI eschatology terms
13:05:27 <ehird> aka "relocate your mind to multiple redundant datacenters, dump any sort of body, and spend your days zooming around the cosmos looking at nebulas like in sci-fi films"
13:06:00 <oerjan> i'm sure that would be boring eventually
13:06:08 <ehird> oerjan: I may be joking!
13:06:17 <ehird> although apart from the last bit that's the best outcome imo
13:06:18 <oerjan> which is probably why they started the earth simulation anyway
13:06:34 <ehird> ofc i'd like to be in a physical body of some sort, but you can do that via virtual reality
13:06:39 <ehird> which is, as a bonus, tweakable
13:06:48 <ehird> and i guess it'd be fine to connect to a physical body every once in a while
13:07:24 <oerjan> we could roam the cosmos possessing primitive aliens
13:08:32 <ehird> i don't think that would be very moral.
13:08:58 <oerjan> moral gets boring eventually
13:09:53 <ehird> although I say this as someone who is currently possessing a 14 year old boy 23127 "Milky Way"/418871 "Sol System"/1 "Sol"/3 "Terra" homo sapiens sapiens body
13:25:29 <ehird> hey! in an <ol> you can do <li value="number">
13:25:35 <ehird> instead of a bunch of <ol start="number">s
13:25:41 <ehird> β ignore those lines
13:31:55 <oerjan> yes, the world must not know this secret
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14:01:10 <ehird> lol, a weblog entry with the slug /atom causes it to display an atom feed of that month
14:01:13 <ehird> due to the weblog software
14:01:24 <ehird> a little bit of fail there
14:01:44 <ehird> especially since the weblog uses post summaries in the feed
14:01:48 <ehird> and thus you can't read the post
14:11:24 <ehird> Steve Ditko, co-creator and original artist of Spider-Man.
14:11:24 <ehird> http://www.dinosaurgardens.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/avenging-world.pdf
14:11:31 <ehird> Objectivist to the max.
14:11:41 <ehird> I can't even read it, it's all over the place with vitrol.
14:11:56 <ehird> It's uh, pretty freaky.
14:12:16 <ehird> "They're nigh-unreadable. I mean, I guess someone relishing re-reading a two-hundred page monologue might see some fun in them but, jesus, I still haven't gotten through a single one. "
14:12:19 <ehird> sounds like ayn rand to me
14:13:05 <ehird> lol - "With great power comes great responsibility to be a total self-interested jerk."
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15:26:04 <oklofok> i don't want to spend more than a second on a square when i'm reading a comic
15:26:15 <oklofok> ...i guess that's mostly because i hate comics though
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15:27:14 <oklofok> actually i have to read a tex willer comic tonight
15:35:11 <ehird> oklofok: tex will, er, mock this terrible joke
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16:20:02 <ehird> oklofog: fog you, you fokking oklofo[kg]
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17:31:30 <ehird> "Monster.Dildo.Cocks.XXX.DVDrip.XviD-GraceNotes" βreddit
17:31:43 <ehird> GOT SOMETHING TO TELL US Gracenotes???
17:32:25 <Gracenotes> people love my nickname, they use it for all their porn warez distributin' groups, I tell them no, but they insist
17:44:18 <GregorR> Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos?
17:44:23 <GregorR> Or are there monster dildos and cocks?
17:44:29 <GregorR> Or are both the dildos and cocks monster?
17:44:50 <ehird> They are monster dildo cocks.
17:45:38 <ehird> `addquote <GregorR> ??? <GregorR> Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? <GregorR> Or are there monster dildos and cocks? <GregorR> Or are both the dildos and cocks monster?
17:45:39 <HackEgo> 78|<GregorR> ??? <GregorR> Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? <GregorR> Or are there monster dildos and cocks? <GregorR> Or are both the dildos and cocks monster?
17:46:18 <ehird> GREGOR HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE THINGS AND HE DESIRES ANSWERS
17:46:26 <HackEgo> 64|<Deewiant> I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly
17:46:34 <HackEgo> 75|* ehird disables javascript
17:46:45 <HackEgo> 22|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <pikhq> First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. <pikhq> Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE.
17:47:28 <HackEgo> 67|<Deewiant> Reality isn't a part of physics
17:47:56 <HackEgo> 75|* ehird disables javascript
17:48:01 <HackEgo> 49|<ehird> is there a problem with it being carbonized :D <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
17:49:43 <ehird> Aaaaaaaand one more
17:49:46 <HackEgo> 8|<Warrigal> GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them.
17:51:27 <Deewiant> Hmm, looks like another ehird topic
17:51:55 <ehird> Deewiant: Fungot topic, actually
17:52:07 <ehird> Including the cut-off
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18:14:37 <Warrigal> I wonder what Deewiant meant when e said that reality isn't a part of physics.
18:21:01 <ehird> "15-inch OLED HDTV"
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19:04:11 <ehird> [on anarchism] "So you advocate transferring power from democratically elected government-run armies to private armies?"
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19:53:52 <Sgeo> Guess what 2*3+4 in J evaluates to
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20:03:05 <Deewiant> Warrigal: That's why we have logs, so that you can grep
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20:27:05 * Sgeo enters the 5th dimension with J
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22:06:47 <Warrigal> I don't know what semantics would result in that being 14.
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22:07:42 <oerjan> Warrigal: not semantics, precedence
22:08:18 <oerjan> i assume J inherits from APL the collect-all-operators from the right principle
22:08:46 <Warrigal> The obvious way that could equal 14 is 2*(3+4).
22:09:01 <Warrigal> The non-obvious way that could equal 14, which is what I saw, is 2+(3*4).
22:09:19 <Deewiant> That looks like a sweet obfuscation for an esolang
22:09:51 <Deewiant> Before evaluating any expression, reverse the order of operators in it
22:20:33 <Sgeo> How TF is something that searches lists [or arrays or n-rank thingamabobies] related to something that makes a list of numbers???
22:22:25 <Sgeo> (For non-J programmers: i. is what you'd call a function. It can accept one or two arguments. If it's given one argument, it makes a list of numbers from 0 to its argument. If given two arguments, it finds where the second argument is listed in the first
22:22:37 <Sgeo> (note: I didn't use J terminology)
22:22:46 <oklofok> why should they be related?
22:23:02 <Sgeo> Because they're both i.
22:23:21 <Sgeo> Why put unrelated things together in the same verb (the J term for function)
22:23:36 <oklofok> because not everything divides neatly into pairs
22:23:53 <oklofok> but, i guess you could've done 4 i. 7 = 4 5 6 7 or something
22:24:03 <oklofok> that's at least somewhat useful
22:24:25 <Sgeo> 4 + i. 7 works just as well
22:24:33 <Sgeo> For that, so it's not needed
22:25:57 * Sgeo is half asleep. Not a good way to learn J
22:25:58 <oklofok> given the correction, it's far less nice
22:36:25 * Sgeo vaguely hopes that posting an AskReddit style question in /r/programming is ok
22:39:29 <oerjan> Sgeo: i _think_ those are usually done as self posts, although only from what i've observed
22:39:54 <oerjan> (and since i have never registered, i don't know how to do it anyhow)
22:57:20 <Sgeo> Why are forks easier to understand than hooks?
22:58:27 <oerjan> well it's rather difficult to eat with hooks, in general
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23:45:57 * Sgeo re-shapes oerjan
23:51:10 <Sgeo> Indexing is complicated
23:51:24 <Sgeo> < 2 2 $ oerjan
23:52:16 * oerjan does not recognize the language
23:53:18 <Sgeo> Reshapes you into a 2x2 array, and puts you in a box
23:59:21 <FireFly> '-' when the mem is 0 is undefined in BF, right?