00:01:26 <oerjan> (but then i didn't notice the pun before exaltation mentioned it, and still thought it was funny)
00:02:03 <oerjan> btw you know that joke about the two tomatoes which ends with "Come on, catch up"?
00:02:46 <oerjan> it's been translated into norwegian as "Kom an, ketsjup", totally without any pun. Still makes children laugh. :D
00:04:01 <oerjan> and then makes adults groan once, after years have passed, they learn that it was originally an english pun
00:04:21 <exaltation> (another great quote from the russian pulp fiction translation: "it's not a motorcycle, baby, it's a helicopter")
00:04:28 <ais523> oerjan: you mean, puns are funny in translation even if they're no longer puns?
00:04:54 <oerjan> ais523: sometimes the absurdity remains, or even gets stronger...
00:05:16 <ais523> now someone's going to have to translate some funny puns into English for me
00:06:23 <ehird> ais523: Two polar bears are in a bath.
00:06:32 <ais523> ehird: is that the entire pun?
00:06:33 <ehird> One asks the other to pass the soap, and the other replies: "No soap, radio!"
00:06:41 <ehird> It's *hilarious* in Lojban.
00:06:42 <ais523> ehird: [[w:No soap radio]]
00:06:49 <ais523> * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=No_soap_radio
00:06:52 <ehird> ais523: No shit :P
00:06:56 <exaltation> "Poruchik Rzhevsky, tell us a pun! - Sure. Shitwise, brown; bodywise, white"
00:06:57 <ais523> probably the best answer to that joke in existence
00:07:50 <ais523> upon reading that page, incidentally, I strained my mind to think of a situation in which that punchline was actually funny
00:07:58 <ais523> but if there was one, it would be a great anti-anti-joke
00:08:56 <oerjan> A Swede was pondering math. "It's called integral, but what then?"
00:09:03 <ais523> exaltation: it's interesting, but maybe not funny
00:09:18 <ais523> it looks more like an intellectual exercise than a pun
00:09:28 <exaltation> in Russian, "shitwise, brown" and "pun" actually sound the same.
00:09:37 <oerjan> (a popular norwegian joke about swedes because it's one of the few they cannot properly reverse on us)
00:10:11 * ehird considers asking #lojban for some Lojban puns translated to English
00:10:37 <oerjan> well popular among norwegian mathematicians, i guess there's some limitation there
00:13:19 <exaltation> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:No_soap_radio#Slightly_funny_after_all.3F
00:13:22 <oerjan> also i cannot find it on google
00:14:10 <ehird> exaltation: the issue with that is that it isn't funny.
00:14:27 <ehird> in fact i find it funnier as a surrealist joke.
00:14:58 * oerjan for once agrees with ehird that something isn't funny
00:16:28 <oerjan> wouldn't that be cofunny, rather
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00:52:37 <oerjan> he used to be an alt, but now he's a baryton
00:54:35 * oerjan notes the english terms are not that
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03:41:29 <ais523> oerjan: alto, baritone
03:55:25 <ais523> they aren't even English words in the first place IIRC
03:55:53 <oerjan> music terms are italian mostly
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08:11:48 <AnMaster> <oerjan> <MizardX> 182 hits on google for "tejped" <-- the English word would be "taped"
08:12:39 <MizardX> I know, but a few hundred other swedes does not seem to.
08:15:29 <AnMaster> MizardX, wait you are a Swede too?
08:16:29 <AnMaster> nåja, det var ju inte så svårt att lista ut vad some menades... Snarare vore det svårt för någon som inte kan svenska.
09:08:19 <olsner> jag tror alla utlänningarna också lyckades lista ut vad det betydde
09:12:31 <fizzie> Misread "used to be an alt, but now he's a baryon". That sounds unlikely. "Composed mostly of baryons", maybe.
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13:24:20 <ehird> 01:12:31 <fizzie> Misread "used to be an alt, but now he's a baryon". That sounds unlikely. "Composed mostly of baryons", maybe.
13:24:30 <ehird> barons are just very big baryons
13:25:47 <fizzie> "No results found for "biggest baryon ever"."
13:26:35 <ehird> biggestbaryonsxxx.com
13:36:43 <ehird> Tee hee, Christians are pissed off because Ricky Gervais is making a movie about a world where there's no lying. In it, religion does not exist.
13:40:58 * ehird installs himself some Windows 7 RC.
13:41:04 <ehird> (on real hardware)
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13:50:02 * ehird boots ubuntu to wipe partitions to install window
13:52:49 <fizzie> They could make a silly only-single-application-process version of Windows (like there was that "Starter" edition of vista with three-simultaneous-apps) and sell that under the brand name Window.
13:53:42 <ehird> fizzie: there's a windows 7 starter too
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15:08:46 <ehird> anyone know of an efficient way to rm a shitload of f iles?
15:08:48 <ehird> rm -r is painfully slow
15:10:50 <fizzie> For ext2, forcibly unlink the dir with debugfs and let e2fsck sort it out later. You'll end up with most of the files in lost+found, I guess, but you didn't specify you wanted a *good* solution.
15:11:10 <ehird> I'm removing around 1,000,000 files
15:11:33 <labo> copy everithing to a new FS :P
15:12:40 <fizzie> Unless you happen to have a safe-for-directories unlink() syscall, I doubt you'll get it done faster than rm, discounting any solutions that involve creating a new file system.
15:14:00 <ehird> I'm freeing about 100GB of space so I can comfortably fit Windows 7 RC x64...
15:14:15 <ehird> I hope a 32-bit game circa 1999 will work fine with it :P
15:14:22 <ehird> (Probably, amirite?)
15:14:27 <ehird> If not I'll just install 32-bit XP.
15:14:28 <AnMaster> ehird, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/partition_in_question
15:14:40 <ehird> And crack it since it has a 5-install activation limit.
15:14:44 <ehird> AnMaster: That does not delete X files.
15:14:48 <ehird> That deletes X+Y files.
15:15:03 <AnMaster> ehird, unless the set of files on the partition happens to be X
15:16:36 <ehird> So, for the... second, I think, time since I've got this iMac, the widescreen is an issue.
15:16:47 <ehird> First time was a game... second time will be a game.
15:17:21 <ehird> I guess I'll buy an adapter from whatever display port of the week this iMac used to DVI and plug it into the old, crappy 19" LCD.
15:17:22 <AnMaster> ehird, well I have non-widescreen on desktop and it is still an issue.... 1400x1050 isn't very common
15:17:35 <AnMaster> usually I run the game in question in window-mode
15:17:42 <ehird> Though that doesn't solve the fact that it runs at, uh, 640x480 I think.
15:17:52 <AnMaster> ehird, well window mode should work fine for that
15:17:53 <ehird> I think I used to play it on that old 17" Compaq CRT.
15:18:03 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes, but there's a large nostalgia factor, and windowing ruins that.
15:18:09 <ehird> Also, black bars > desktop.
15:18:15 <ehird> But neither are very good.
15:18:31 <AnMaster> ehird, well using 640x480 will frankly look like shit on any non-CRT
15:18:33 <ehird> I have this crappy 15" Axion CRT, but it'd need calibrating.
15:18:48 <ehird> AnMaster: The game doesn't exactly have spectacular graphics :P
15:19:13 <AnMaster> black boarders around 640x480 in the center of the screen?
15:19:40 <ehird> AnMaster: That's my current plan, but eh.
15:19:50 <ehird> Not only will it have LCD scaling artifacts, it'll be distracting.
15:20:26 <ehird> Actually, hmm, it might have a configurable resolution. Not widescreen though, obviously.
15:20:31 <ehird> Also that's sort of nostalgia-ruining.
15:20:32 <GregorR> "Boarders" are people who pay to "board", i.e. live in your home :P
15:20:47 <GregorR> But apparently AnMaster has a problem with black boarders.
15:21:06 <ehird> Yeah, the resolution is configurable - there's a screenshot here of it running at 1600x1200.
15:21:14 <ehird> It looks upsettingly hi-def.
15:21:34 <AnMaster> GregorR, well it was pretty clear from the context that it didn't refer to that. I certainly didn't think of that meaning of the word before you mentioned it... though I have heard it before once or twice iirc
15:21:47 <ehird> GregorR: Who wants to tell him you were joking?
15:21:57 <GregorR> Except that that's the only meaning of the word "boarder", you were looking for the word "border" :P
15:22:24 <GregorR> What fun is the universe if I can't poke fun at a simple typo :P
15:22:42 <AnMaster> ehird, I am aware of that it could possibly be interpreted as funny by some people. However personally I wouldn't classify it as a joke
15:23:01 <ehird> some days I try not to be angry at AnMaster
15:23:04 <ehird> today is not one of those days
15:23:09 <ehird> AnMaster: SHUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP
15:23:40 <AnMaster> GregorR, in fact when I first noticed I had typoed with that a there I was thinking about if you could possibly be joking about pirates or similar
15:23:57 <AnMaster> well they board ships don't they?
15:24:15 <fizzie> ehird: It's the Windows 7 in you that's making you not be unangry.
15:24:17 <AnMaster> and didn't make a lot of sense in the context of "racist"
15:24:36 <ehird> fizzie: I should install Windows 98 instead. :)
15:24:45 <ehird> But I'm not sure the sequel would run on that!
15:24:49 <ehird> <AnMaster> SQL HUR HUR
15:25:04 <AnMaster> ehird, um... what? I didn't get that joke...
15:25:56 <AnMaster> oh you mean like that... right... not very funny. If you want to make a bad joke, why not attribute it to yourself... since I wouldn't have thought of that...
15:26:28 <ehird> Indeed, you'd have probably thought of something even less funny and signed it with a ;P.
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15:27:52 <AnMaster> ehird, I was thinking of something like "why not xp?" followed by some joke about "experience" but I couldn't think of anything good
15:28:06 <ehird> XP will be what I'll try if Windows 7 doesn't work.
15:28:33 <ehird> But I said 98 (which almost certainly wouldn't work on this iMac) because it was the latest Windows at the time the game was released.
15:29:05 <AnMaster> ehird, I suspect using a vm would work better, unless it is 3D
15:29:26 <ehird> And the sequel is also 3D, circa 2003.
15:29:56 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_2:_The_Great_Escape. It's good. At least I think so, and that opinion may be tainted by having played it when I was a yung'un.
15:30:17 <ehird> I haven't played it for N years.
15:30:25 <ehird> [ehird:/] % sudo rm -rf Previous\ Systems.localized
15:30:25 <ehird> rm: Previous Systems.localized: Directory not empty
15:30:47 <ehird> Got created while deleting, presumably.
15:31:15 <ehird> Yes, well, .DS_Store is a rather odd wart.
15:31:36 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_2:_The_Great_Escape#Voice_Cast ;; hahaha
15:31:47 <ehird> (They just speak gibberish over the subtitles, at least in the PC version)
15:32:08 <AnMaster> I mean, what is so funny about that section.
15:32:11 <ehird> (They just speak gibberish over the subtitles, at least in the PC version)
15:32:21 <ehird> It doesn't seem like something worth hiring a voice cast over
15:32:30 <ehird> (Jack Black[citation needed] as Globox ;; really?)
15:32:36 <ehird> I find *that* hard to believe
15:33:24 <AnMaster> ehird, gibberish like for example Donald Duck did in old Disney movies? Or even worse?
15:33:55 <ehird> "Womi knee. Eksioo geh!" is a bad transcription of what I remember hearing.
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15:34:23 <AnMaster> what on earth.. aspell doesn't think "movie" is a valid word...
15:34:43 <ehird> Merge those two damn dialect dictionaries.
15:34:45 <AnMaster> ehird, is that the UK word? that
15:35:09 <AnMaster> ehird, well same as the Swedish word then.
15:35:16 * ehird starts boot camp assistant
15:36:02 <AnMaster> ehird, rendering bug or intended? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ratman_2.jpg
15:36:06 <ehird> (A flaw of Rayman 2 that I did not realise until now: Sure, so the enemies are robot pirates. WHERE ARE THE NINJAS?)
15:36:28 <ehird> AnMaster: His hair also functions as a helicopter-type spinny thing that makes him float.
15:36:38 <ehird> Also, he uses his body as a basketball if you don't press anything for a while.
15:36:48 <ehird> So, er, yes, intentional.
15:37:05 <AnMaster> ehird, well... weird super powers isn't unusual... ;P
15:37:23 <ehird> Then you won't be surprised to know that he can form orbs of energy with his hand and throw them at things!
15:38:12 <AnMaster> on the other hand, enemies can't hit what you don't have....
15:38:21 <AnMaster> hm that sounds like innuendo...
15:38:39 <ehird> For some values of "innuendo"
15:39:20 <ehird> Rayman 2 may be the game with the hardest final battle ever...
15:42:32 <ehird> You're on a weird thing that flies forward constantly, and you can turn up/down/left/right. If you bash into any of the walls, you die. If you fall into the lava, you die. If you bash into *anything*, you die. If you go up a tunnel that gets slimmer and slimmer there's an orb, which you have to pass going downwards, not going towards it. Then you get an orb on its exhaust, which you can then shoot backwards. You have to shoot it at both stilts (getting one t
15:42:33 <ehird> that the end boss thingy is in, at which point he falls down a bit or something. Then you can hit him a few times before he goes back up. His health bar is almost the width of the entire screen and one shot barely affects him; yours is more like a quarter of the screen. If you die, you lose some health and he regains all his. Also, all this time, he is occasionally shooting ... something at you, which tracks you and makes you die if it hits you. You have to
15:42:34 <ehird> shoot it or lose its trail, and this takes like 15 seconds.
15:43:01 <ehird> Also the second bit but it's comprehensible without (just lost an "either")
15:43:13 <ehird> *stlts (getting one twice), to be specific.
15:44:40 * ehird gives Windows 64GB (so that OS X has 72GB free)
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15:52:15 <ehird> This thing freezes when I try and resize my boot partition :-(
15:52:23 <ehird> Maybe gparted will work.
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16:47:08 <AnMaster> oh and I see <Tobi_> hello in scrollback too... Hi Tobi_ (whoever you are)
16:47:29 <oerjan> Tobi_ or not Tobi_, that's the question
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17:39:41 <AnMaster> just want to make one thing clear: this is about esoteric programming languages, not esoterica. A lot of people stray in here thinking it is about the other stuff
17:41:11 <Tobi_> I joined the brainfuck channel this afternoon, as I am intrested in brainfuck, but it was pretty silent there so I decided to come here
17:41:44 <AnMaster> it has a separate channel? heh
17:42:09 <lament> but how is this channel not about esoterica?
17:42:13 <lament> ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
17:42:16 <Deewiant> I keep hearing this "lot of people" stuff and have still to see anybody mistaking this for the other kind of esoterica
17:42:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I think it happend five times when I was reading the channel this summer.
17:42:48 <fizzie> I think I saw one once.
17:43:40 <Tobi_> so, you are all esoteric programmers? :)
17:44:30 <Tobi_> I read about it in a magazine so I tried brainfuck
17:44:53 <lament> was it a porn magazine?
17:44:58 <lament> we're not into that kind of brainfuck.
17:45:28 <pikhq> lament: Well, I'm pretty sure we've had a few discussions of esoterica -- but that's just our studious devotion to not being on topic. :P
17:46:20 <pikhq> AnMaster: Esoteric programming languages.
17:47:07 <Tobi_> I wondered if there is any forum dedicated to esoteric programming languages
17:47:22 <AnMaster> sketchy idea for new esolang: something based on esoterica... taroc(spelling?) cards for representing the stack or something
17:47:53 <Deewiant> Although the original word is something closer to taroc, IIRC
17:47:54 <lament> give a different meaning to each card
17:47:58 <pikhq> AnMaster: Tarot cards are not "based on esoterica", BTW.
17:48:05 <lament> make a restriction that you can only use N decks
17:48:19 <lament> the challenge is to write a program that only uses N decks of cards
17:48:20 <pikhq> Though used in esotericism, they are primarily playing cards.
17:48:41 <AnMaster> pikhq, mhm. Shows how little I know about that sort of stuff
17:49:07 <pikhq> (with absurd amounts of esoteric symbolism added in, for odd historical reasons)
17:49:14 <AnMaster> lament, wonder if you could still make it tc... hm
17:49:35 <lament> AnMaster: not for any fixed N, no
17:49:36 <AnMaster> well you would need some other storage form in addition for tc-ness then
17:49:57 <lament> i mean it more like a golf challenge
17:50:10 <AnMaster> well maybe you could use the heap of crystal balls or something
17:50:11 <lament> "I wrote a bubblesort in 3 decks, can you do it in 2?"
17:50:40 <lament> and then possibly you could analyze the program to predict your future
17:50:46 <AnMaster> lament, still need to work out some interesting semantics for it
17:51:05 <AnMaster> for example, it seems reasonable that program operation should somehow be affected by phase of moon
17:51:30 <lament> and your date of birth
17:51:59 <lament> and the currently active zodiac sign
17:52:18 <AnMaster> lament, isn't that related to bad newspapers?
17:53:24 <lament> that's not really its fault, is it?
17:53:36 <lament> astrology doesn't concern itself with bad newspapers
17:53:42 <lament> bad newspapers concern themselves with astrology
17:53:51 <AnMaster> lament, well, I was trying to make a joke about the horoscope column found it some (many?) newspapers
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17:58:31 <AnMaster> lament, wait what about making it so that the program had to select a date for which the horoscope did what it wanted? Would of course be incredibly hard to write anything in it :)
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17:58:40 <AnMaster> and you could store it as zero size file
17:59:12 <AnMaster> modification timestamp could encode the date or something
17:59:42 <AnMaster> hm no, you need creation date too, and at least *nix systems doesn't store that...
18:07:09 <AnMaster> lament, do astrology care about location too?
18:08:48 <lament> only about the local time
18:09:19 <lament> i.e. the exact position of the planets at the moment of birth
18:09:45 <lament> (hm, that's not local time. But I think local time is important too, somehow - perhaps I'm wrong)
18:10:43 <lament> wp says, "The horoscope serves as a stylized map of the heavens over a specific location at a particular moment in time."
18:10:47 <AnMaster> lament, but timezones are mostly political inventions...
18:11:05 <lament> and they have a sample
18:11:06 <lament> "A horoscope calculated for January 1, 2000 at 12:01:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time in New York City, New York, USA (Longitude: 074W00'23" - Latitude: 40N42'51")."
18:11:57 <AnMaster> lament, ok so file format is trivial: <date of file creation>\n<GPS coordinates for birth location> and encode the period the horoscope should be made for as the modification time stamp
18:12:26 <fizzie> There's no real creation time, but there's ctime, which is almost as good. You'll just have to make sure to preserve it.
18:13:09 <AnMaster> fizzie, ctime isn't creation time indeed. However I always fail to remember what exactly it is instead
18:13:32 <fizzie> Inode-status-change-time; though it's standardicity had some problems. It might not have been quite well-specified.
18:14:07 <fizzie> Ctime's usually updated by changes in owner/group/mode and such.
18:14:37 <AnMaster> for idiomatic coding in this language the programmer should actually visit the location at the specified time and create the file then!
18:14:55 <AnMaster> of course, most programmers wouldn't do it the idiomatic way.
18:16:10 <fizzie> Anyway, not very many bits in the typical timestamps, not too many different possible programs. Though maybe if you allow unlimited precision in the GPS coordinates.
18:16:50 <AnMaster> also btw how is the conversion from date/time/location to "Avoid tall strangers. A fried is important to you. ..." work?
18:18:16 <fizzie> But there are many lookup tables involved, I believe.
18:19:45 <fizzie> "I don't believe in astrology; I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical." - Arthur C. Clarke (No idea about the origin or exactness of the quote.)
18:20:43 <fizzie> "Each planet has its own aspects and influences, much like the signs. How the influence is exerted upon the subject depends on which sign the planet appears in, which other planets are present and if the planet is in retrograde motion. The positions of the planets relative to one another are important, as are various angles and mathematical calculations based on all of these factors."
18:21:07 <fizzie> That gives you a lot of possible numbers, each of which you can probably then look up in suitable books.
18:23:19 <AnMaster> "Having constructed the horoscope, the astrologer can begin the task of interpreting the chart. This interpretation depends upon which branch of horoscopic astrology is being used."
18:24:36 <fizzie> Moving "backwards" w.r.t. everything else; obviously only when viewed from some particular place, in this case Earth.
18:24:46 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_retrograde_motion is the type of thing they mean.
18:24:53 <AnMaster> the algorithm described on wikipedia reminds me of a cipher...
18:25:31 <AnMaster> one of those that use a weird table and with multiple rounds
18:28:04 <fizzie> The apparent backwards-going is what makes life difficult for all those people who insist on placing the Earth in the center of the solar system.
18:29:10 <fizzie> "By this time each planet had been provided with from 40 to 60 epicycles to represent after a fashion its complex movement among the stars. Amazed at the difficulty of the project, Alfonso is credited with the remark that had he been present at the Creation he might have given excellent advice." quotes wikipedia on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle
18:29:18 <AnMaster> fizzie, yet astrology wouldn't care at all about a comet on collision course with earth? Surely that should end up as "you will likely have a bad day today"?
18:31:41 <fizzie> There's a lot of stuff on the sky they don't care about.
18:32:26 <fizzie> Like Pluto's other dwarf planet friends.
18:32:50 <AnMaster> fizzie, pluto isn't even the largest dwarf planet iirc?
18:33:03 <fizzie> Eris has more mass, yes.
18:34:05 <AnMaster> why on earth did "Eris" make be think of esr...
18:34:21 <fizzie> It's also a bit further away, though, so I think it might have less of a gravitational influence. Still, at perihelion it seems to be closer than Pluto at aphelion.
18:34:58 <AnMaster> fizzie, err? closest point? and point furthest away?
18:36:07 <fizzie> I couldn't really avoid that, since those are the terms used in the heavenly-body info-box.
18:41:15 <fizzie> In any case.. let's see, Pluto has some 1.3*10^22 kg at 6*10^9 metres, so F = G*m1*m2/r^2 means the gravitational attraction between Pluto and a rather largeish 4-kg newborn is... about 100 nano-Newtons. The same force would be caused by Earth's gravity if you put a "brick" weighting 10 µg on the baby.
18:41:58 <fizzie> Of course it's not about gravity, it's about "influence" by some other, more inexplicable means.
18:42:15 <fizzie> Maybe the non-planets just don't have that special something.
18:44:25 <fizzie> Besides, maybe they are counting Eris. Wikipedia's Astrology page lists as data-sources "the astrological planets, dwarf planets, the asteroids, the stars, the lunar nodes, Arabic parts and hypothetical planets."
18:46:54 <AnMaster> and what hypothetical planets?
18:47:53 <fizzie> Arabic parts are some sort of derived points from multiple things-in-the-sky, it seems. And there are quite a lot of hypothetical planets.
18:48:02 <fizzie> They're just like real planets, except they don't, you know, exist.
18:48:24 <fizzie> There's Lilith, for example, Earth's second moon.
18:48:39 <fizzie> You may not have noticed it; it's quite sneaky.
18:49:07 <AnMaster> fizzie, with all the sats and debris up there now I wouldn't be surprised if they formed a second moon at some point ;P
18:49:27 <fizzie> This one has about the same mass as the real Moon.
18:49:30 <AnMaster> but shouldn't astrology track that? After all it is a LOT closer
18:49:38 <fizzie> I don't think we've hauled that much stuff up there yet.
18:49:51 <AnMaster> fizzie, maybe it is made of that infamous dark matter?
18:50:11 <fizzie> It's "mostly invisible", but I can't quite seem to find out why.
18:50:21 <fizzie> Possibly because the idea makes absolutely no sense.
18:50:43 <fizzie> It's just so dark, it seems.
18:50:53 <AnMaster> fizzie, how insane on a scale from 0 to time cube?
18:51:28 <fizzie> I'm not a Time Cube scholar, but pretty insane. Though I guess second-moonism isn't any stranger than flat-earthism.
18:52:22 <AnMaster> wonder what happened to ehird... didn't he said he would just resize some partition? that was quite a while ago...
18:52:52 <fizzie> There are some partitions man was not meant to resize.
18:53:36 <AnMaster> fizzie, yeah I think macs have EFID partitions or something
18:53:53 <AnMaster> GUID partition tables, but EFI partitions
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18:54:59 <fizzie> I don't know anything about the Intel macs; the old "Apple Partition Map" mess was big enough.
18:56:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, oh? I have used OS 9 but I never messed with the partitions on it... 3.2 GB harddrive. more than one partition would have been pointless
18:56:09 <AnMaster> so tell me about this interesting mess
18:57:25 <fizzie> Yes, well, I had that MkLinux-booter-based Debian on my PPC mac. It's just that there's more partitions than one would think would be necessary; the partition map itself is a partition, for example. And there were some kinds of I-don't-know-how-it-works "driver partitions".
18:57:42 <AnMaster> "the partition map itself is a partition, for example" <-- sounds kind of neat...
18:58:06 <fizzie> I think the PPC-iBook's partition table, as seen from mac-fdisk in Ubuntu, is still quite complicated. I could check it out if you're interested.
18:58:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, and the driver partition hm... I remember that you had a "update disk drivers" option or something in the disk tool thingy on old macs
18:59:57 <fizzie> "Often the first partition on a SCSI disk, following the partition map, is the driver partition that contains the actual device driver used to communicate with the disk. (There is, however, no requirement that the driver partition be the first partition on a disk.)"
19:00:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, so how is that driver loaded.... I see a bootstrapping problem here...
19:01:06 <fizzie> I think you load it using the openfirmware-forth-based driver directly provided by the device, or some such trick.
19:01:13 <fizzie> I don't really know the details, though.
19:01:29 <fizzie> That sort of device-driver-trickery was used by the Sparcs, anyway.
19:01:54 <AnMaster> well sounds plausible. boot loader on x86 uses bios to load the kernel (which usually has it's own driver later on)
19:03:05 <fizzie> Yes, it's just even cleverer since you can put the FCode (their forth-bytecode) driver directly on ROM on the device -- it's not like it's very many bytes -- and then use that for rudimentary access. And of course the driver you can read from the disk is then the sensible higher-performance one.
19:03:39 <fizzie> And the FCode driver's platform-independent, so the same thing would work on Sun systems and Macs.
19:05:01 <fizzie> I guess EFI has some sort of similar bytecode-based thing, actually.
19:06:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, so you would need different harddrives for sparc/ppc than traditional x86?
19:06:28 <AnMaster> also I thought it was for disk controller
19:06:44 <AnMaster> as in, the bit on the mobo that talks with the disk using ATA commands
19:07:48 <AnMaster> well for pci based scsi controllers or such, a forth based "basic firmware" would indeed make sense
19:09:21 <fizzie> The firmware stuff was used in PCI card devices in general. I'm not quite sure what the exact deal is with disk controllers, I guess their drivers are in the firmwarey parts anyway, and can be used to load the driver partition.
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19:25:10 <fizzie> That is not dead which can eternal lie.
19:26:13 <fizzie> In fact I am slightly hopeful that I could get something done on that front, now that I've gotten the thesis stuff out of the way.
19:26:49 <Deewiant> Perhaps we will see a JIT TRDS one day
19:28:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does TRDS require that the interpreter supports t?
19:29:19 <Deewiant> No, but you can't really do much with it without t :-P
19:30:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, would mycology gracefully handle a interpreter with TRDS but without t?
19:30:30 <Deewiant> mycotrds requires t right at the start IIRC
19:30:54 <AnMaster> so it won't infini-loop or something silly like that
19:31:15 <Deewiant> Oh, but of course you can jump to the past and do stuff without having t
19:31:26 <Deewiant> Although if you've implemented that, t is probably one line of code
19:31:49 <Deewiant> If you want to make a DS9K, implement TRDS but not t :-P
19:32:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and then show it to Mike Riley?
19:33:37 <Deewiant> At least you don't have to track IP IDs since all IPs will have the same ID
19:36:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, btw would you say icc or gcc is best in general?
19:37:25 <Deewiant> I don't know, I haven't used icc much and I haven't compared C/C++ compilers at all, really
19:37:47 <AnMaster> I would assume icc is better on intel cpus... and that is true for cfunge on my old pentium 3... but for my core 2 duo laptop... gcc is more than twice as fast
19:38:35 <Deewiant> I would assume that they're different and there's no "in general" winner :-P
19:39:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but I wouldn't have expected such a large difference... but then it seems that for more long running programs the difference is much smaller. Possibly icc has a lot more setup code before it gets to the actual program
19:40:29 <Deewiant> They implement somewhat different optimizations in different ways *shrug*
19:58:37 <AnMaster> btw... does course literature writers in US get paid by the word or something? Course literature in English seems to be pretty verbose, while ones in Swedish seems to be trying to pack as much knowledge into as few pages as possible instead.
19:59:32 <AnMaster> (this observation is based on a total of 6 books in math and programming, three of them in English)
20:00:03 <AnMaster> (oh and personally I would prefer something between those two extremes)
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21:39:51 <ehird> surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time
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22:38:11 <ehird> I wonder when http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI will change URI :P
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23:06:45 * oerjan notes the moon is fuwuoowoooowooooooooo, er full
23:07:29 <ehird> the keys are like right next to each other.
23:08:28 <ehird> http://bash.org/?901460 ;; this is a bash quote approved THIS YEAR
23:08:49 <ehird> does anyone want to tell them that there's only ONE apple computer-related product you can buy with one button?
23:09:04 <ehird> and it's their budget notebook?
23:09:11 <ehird> Deewiant: I linked that earlier
23:09:13 <ehird> but it didn't get through
23:09:19 <ehird> [22:39] ehird: surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time
23:09:19 <ehird> [22:02] ehird: http://imgur.com/5jxA3.png
23:09:27 <ehird> HOW DID THAT HAPPEN
23:09:42 <ehird> did the clocks just change on me or something? :P
23:09:58 <ehird> or maybe I had the worst ntp lag evar
23:10:24 <Deewiant> The first time was right, at least
23:10:25 <Deewiant> 2009-09-03 23:39:57 ( ehird) surprisingly, my partition surgery worked perfectly, first time
23:11:00 <ehird> yes. I was pretty worried about that, incidentally, since at the end I discovered amongst the details that growing the filesystem to fit the new partition wasn't supported
23:11:07 <ehird> but it seems to have worked
23:11:14 <ehird> and I can install windows at my leisure
23:11:27 <ehird> anyone want to sell me a crappy CRT? :-)
23:12:13 <ehird> (right clicking on my disk, an entry is "duplicate". I am tempted to ask it to copy my disk to itself by clicking...)
23:12:23 <ehird> aw, it complains that the disk is in use
23:12:45 <oerjan> hm there's the old black and white tv in the closet, it's _really_ crappy
23:13:03 <ehird> I doubt it has a VGA port
23:13:10 <ehird> also, I kind of want colour :P
23:13:24 <oerjan> well, you _did_ ask for crappy
23:13:52 <ehird> The CRT I used was a second-hand Compaq V70
23:14:19 <ehird> Googling, a site claims its max resolution was 1280x1024; bullshit. With PowerStrip I got like ... high resolutions.
23:14:36 <ehird> Admittedly it was flickery as all fuck, and text was so small as to be unreadable, but I got used to it because MOAR PIXELZ.
23:15:17 <ehird> "17-inch (15.67-inches viewable)" —Business Wire, July 22 1996, on that monitor
23:15:42 <ehird> also, it refers to it as value-line
23:15:43 <ehird> pretty much sums it up
23:16:17 <ehird> but it displayed pixels blurrily. at 120hz no less if you used 800x600 or lower
23:16:28 <oerjan> 10:07:09 <AnMaster> lament, do astrology care about location too?
23:16:30 <ehird> there was barely *any* flicker!
23:16:58 <ehird> oerjan: when can I expect a b nomic horoscope?!
23:17:03 <oerjan> the ascendant and the houses in particular
23:17:19 <ehird> i fully expect your personal interpretation of it, too!
23:17:43 <oerjan> ehird: you could just download astrolog like i did for agora, assuming it still exists
23:17:55 <oerjan> and the interpretations were autogenerated by it
23:17:56 <ehird> oerjan: you forever tainted it with that bitingly sarcastic page!
23:18:03 <ehird> its aura is now unaligned; crooked.
23:18:14 <ehird> no, B Nomic needs a sincere eye
23:18:42 <ehird> ofc the horoscope will inevitably be "You are what the fucking christ jesus get therapy man."
23:21:31 <oerjan> hm fourth anniversary that would have been 1997
23:21:38 <oerjan> within my atheist period
23:22:42 * oerjan wonders why the file dates are 2002 - oh right, that's when i had to move things out of the math institute account
23:24:32 <oerjan> (in other words, don't expect quite the same level of sarcasm from me today)
23:29:35 <oerjan> <AnMaster> also btw how is the conversion from date/time/location to "Avoid tall strangers. A fried is important to you. ..." work?
23:29:43 <oerjan> avoid tall fried strangers
23:30:01 <oerjan> they might be grumpy after frying
23:30:25 <ehird> oerjan: I said it because of the top header
23:30:41 <ehird> "(30 June 2007: The ruleset links below have long since gone stale, but Agora still lives on at www.agoranomic.org. Oh, and since my views on divination have changed since then as well, it was only appropriate synchronicity that I did not remember what day this was until after I decided to finally follow Zefram's suggestion to make a note about the new site.)"
23:31:28 <ehird> ok, you can buy one of Unicomp's Model M clones in black, with blank black keycaps
23:31:39 <ehird> das keyboard is instantly obsolete
23:32:19 <oerjan> ehird: said _what_ because of the top header?
23:32:28 <ehird> oerjan: asking for a b nomic horoscope
23:38:32 <oerjan> in the secret lair of Dr. Evil,
23:40:19 <oerjan> his real-o-matic detects a fourth wall infraction.
23:40:39 <ehird> http://store.theonion.com/che-wearing-che-t-shirt-t-shirt-p-172.html ;; GregorR, you know what to do
23:42:10 <oerjan> you mean we want a picture of GregorR wearing the GregorR wearing the GregorR t-shirt t-shirt.
23:42:24 <ehird> i was thinking more like making a shirt of that shirt
23:42:25 <GregorR> I assumed Che wearing Che wearing Che wearing Che wearing Che ...
23:42:27 <ehird> but sure, that works too
23:42:33 <ehird> GregorR: oh, infinitely would work also
23:42:45 <oerjan> or perhaps alternating with Che...
23:42:46 <ehird> although the infinitely small ches might start demanding equal pixel rights
23:43:12 <ehird> (real) gregor wearing che wearing gregor wearing che wearing ironic hipster tshirt
23:43:15 <ehird> wait, no, not that last part.
23:44:47 <ehird> getting tired at midnight is becoming irritating
23:45:00 <lament> hm, i might buy that che shirt :(
23:45:08 <ehird> guess I'll try and eke an hour or two more out of the day to mess up the schedule to make it more fun
23:45:13 <ehird> lament: that's so unhappy? :(
23:45:19 <oerjan> <fizzie> They're just like real planets, except they don't, you know, exist.
23:45:28 <oerjan> astrolog supported quite a few of them iirc
23:45:29 <ehird> EXISTENCE IS OPTIONAL
23:45:34 <lament> and the "YOU ARE DUMB" one, hehe
23:46:34 <ehird> lament: http://store.theonion.com/good-day-to-go-sailing,-if-youre-a-dick-new-p-1025.html is far more classy than "YOU ARE DUBM"!
23:47:04 <ehird> SAFARI HISTORY SEARCH WISHLIST
23:47:16 <ehird> 1. Don't freeze for seconds every time I type a character.
23:51:14 <oerjan> <AnMaster> fizzie, with all the sats and debris up there now I wouldn't be surprised if they formed a second moon at some point ;P
23:52:17 <oerjan> i think the low orbit ones are mostly within the roche limit, but the geostationary orbit at 36000 km might... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit
23:53:37 * ehird wonders whether it's possible to hack up a notebook with a custom keyboard
23:58:32 * ehird installs windows 7
23:59:11 -!- ehird has quit.