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00:08:04 <AnMaster> oerjan, I do know he made several others
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00:10:04 <AnMaster> http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/bit.html <-- heheh
00:19:31 <AnMaster> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Whenever <-- I wonder if it is TC.
00:21:37 <AnMaster> coppro, I would say "probably, except I can't see how to do infinite memory"
00:24:29 <coppro> N(1) is a value with infinite possible values
00:24:42 <coppro> and the program can be terminated by making the condition false
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01:49:01 <ehirdiphone> http://underhanded.xcott.com/?p=18 It's back, bitches!
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01:55:20 <pikhq> Hmm. Contemplating how best to do that...
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02:05:14 <ehirdiphone> Write the program correctly with dependent types to make sure it's correct. Also, use type system metaprogramming to generate repetitive parts of the code. Introduce a mistake into the types that causes the metaprogrammer to output the wrong code.
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02:09:41 <ehirdiphone> I wonder how feasible getting X clients to draw in the right pixels over an Emacs frame is.
02:10:09 <ehirdiphone> Also, does X let you focus two windows at once...?
02:10:44 <pikhq> I seem to recall that X allows you to embed a client into another client...
02:11:27 <ehirdiphone> Yes, but that'd involve hacking Emacs to let buffers be X embedders instead of text buffers.
02:15:46 <ehirdiphone> pikhq: If I make an Emacs X11 WM you can run even less software under X! XD
02:16:19 <ehirdiphone> Ratpoison? Pah! Can ratpoison play tetris? It is an inferior imitation of Emacs!
02:16:56 <ehirdiphone> Switching to buffers in the same way as windows in one step would be sweet, actually.
02:18:21 <ehirdiphone> If you used one of Emacs' terminals and ERC you could run just Emacs(with wm)+conkeror without missing out on anything.
02:19:05 <ehirdiphone> Could even hook Conkeror up to the Emacs minibuffer and hide its own. XD
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02:53:42 <zzo38> I played a game, called "Return to Ditch Day", in which there is a puzzle where you have to type up to sixteen characters (0-9+A-F) only on a computer (a Commandant 64), and you have to make it put output the same as the input.
02:54:04 <zzo38> I eventually figured it out, each number means a command, and you have to write a quine program.
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02:56:24 <zzo38> I earned 50 bonus points for doing so. It is not necessary to solve that puzzle to complete the game, but I got 50 extra-credit points, which are not added to the normal score, but is listed separately instead.
02:58:51 <zzo38> "Return to Ditch Day" is really a good computer game, you might try it one time
02:59:02 <zzo38> (I have not completed it yet)
03:00:00 <zzo38> (I have not yet won the game, but I liked the parts I have played so far)
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04:06:40 <zzo38> Is the introduction good? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/html/main.html http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/intro.irm
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04:22:47 <ehirdiphone> http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html
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04:23:25 <ehirdiphone> have it run a terminal or w/e with the actual inif
04:27:46 <pikhq> I don't know of any reason why X *couldn't* be init, actually.
04:29:43 <ehirdiphone> Well... If x goes down the kernel will panic.
04:30:36 <ehirdiphone> Runs X in a loop, if it fails to start at some point wait a minute before trying again.
04:31:01 <pikhq> Or just accept the panic.
04:31:46 <ehirdiphone> pikhq: X as init, running Emacs running COMINT or w/e running the init scripts.
04:33:07 <ehirdiphone> Fill in your details, hit RET, and Emacs disappears. Then YOUR emacs appears.
04:33:45 <ehirdiphone> Voilà: the entirely X11Emacs-based Linux system.
04:35:29 <ehirdiphone> Wonder how hard it is to get emacs to ignore all non-editing commands.
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04:45:37 <ehirdiphone> http://www.haxney.org/2009/08/its-alive.html hmm. Prior art.
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05:26:04 <coppro> hahaha... man, that's a bug in the Criminal code
05:29:08 <coppro> There's a complex set of exceptions for when sexual activity with minors is okay, but this doesn't apply to indecent exposure to minors
05:59:39 <Sgeo_> Did ehird see what I wrote?
05:59:44 <Sgeo_> Doesn't matter now, I need sleep
06:00:45 <Sgeo_> No indication that he saw anything
06:03:01 <coppro> ehird will see what yo uwrote
06:03:34 <Sgeo_> coppro, I checked the log, doesn't look like he said anything related to what I wrote
06:03:42 <Sgeo_> Then again, I was only checking for my own name, so
06:03:43 <Oranjer> hey ehird you're a big stinking patooe
06:03:51 <coppro> so he wouldn't have read it form there
06:03:54 <Oranjer> I wonder if he will see that
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06:45:33 <coppro> Is it sad that one of the things I look forward to most with the New Year is a webcomic update?
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08:13:38 <ehirdiphone> my mind buzzes too much, i need a stop thinking button
08:13:54 <ais523> you could try sleeping
08:14:16 <ais523> or do something that requires a lot of concentration, say certain computer games
08:15:12 <ehirdiphone> soupdragon: doubtful I'll be any good. Quite tired but go on
08:15:44 <soupdragon> Five girls each make two statemens, one true one false
08:16:09 <soupdragon> * Betty: ``Kitty was second in the examination. I was only third.''
08:16:09 <soupdragon> * Ethel: ``You'll be glad to hear that I was on top. Joan was second.''
08:16:09 <soupdragon> * Joan: ``I was third, and poor old Ethel was bottom.''
08:16:09 <soupdragon> * Kitty: ``I came out second. Mary was only fourth.''
08:16:09 <soupdragon> * Mary: ``I was fourth. Top place was taken by Betty.''
08:17:44 <ehirdiphone> great, so the exercise is "remember basic prolog syntax"
08:17:57 <soupdragon> you're not allowed to solve it with code
08:18:14 <soupdragon> also the obvious prolog program doesn't work
08:18:26 <ehirdiphone> which in this case is equivalent to "remember the syntax for or"
08:19:12 <soupdragon> because of <ehirdiphone> great, so the exercise is "remember basic prolog syntax"
08:19:44 <ehirdiphone> soupdragon: how come, it's just a set of constraints (p | q)
08:20:20 <soupdragon> I mean, if you interpret the first rule as like, (Kitty = 2, Betty \= 3);(Kitty \= 2, Betty = 3)
08:20:51 <soupdragon> that wont work alone, you'd have to start with permutation(Girls,[1,2,3,4,5])
08:21:26 <soupdragon> but that algorithm is bad because you can't interleave the generator
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08:23:02 <ais523> three-valued logic in Prolog is annoying
08:43:30 <ais523> it's when you have true/false/unknown as logic values
08:43:48 <ais523> (or in the case of a data bus true/false/I've been told to shut up so other people can talk)
08:44:54 <soupdragon> prologs not really about values though more about provability I think
08:48:10 <ais523> but, sometimes you want to write programs in it :)
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09:04:50 <ehirdiphone> soupdragon: using views is so cheating for SQL esolanging
09:05:22 <ais523> IMO, you can use any feature of a language not designed for programming if trying to program in it
09:06:04 <soupdragon> you can just paste the definiton of the view to get rid of it...
09:06:30 <soupdragon> can you actually use views as functions?
09:07:52 <ehirdiphone> I may be mistaking views for sth else. Tired. Relink your paste
09:11:30 <ais523> wait, you're trying to solve the problem in /SQL/?
09:11:49 <soupdragon> and prolog http://www.pasteit4me.com/94034
09:11:53 <ais523> what a great choice of language
09:13:11 <soupdragon> what other languaes should I do it in?
09:13:45 <soupdragon> I did it in a really stupid way with CHR too
09:13:51 <ais523> ehirdiphone: what do you mean?
09:14:15 <ais523> ehirdiphone: I first had problems parsing your sentence
09:14:27 <soupdragon> statement(first(G)) ==> statement(not(second(G))), statement(not(third(G))), statement(not(fourth(G))), statement(not(fifth(G))).
09:14:38 <soupdragon> and statement(P), statement(not(P)) <=> false.
09:14:38 <ais523> yep, you mean it works relationally, modified/enhanced so that it's TC
09:14:46 <ais523> ehirdiphone: what's your opinion on cut?
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09:15:04 <ais523> I think it's nicely eso
09:15:25 <ehirdiphone> ais523: is there an elegant theoretical model with cut
09:15:57 <ais523> there is a common-way-to-implement which probably has a theoretical model behind it
09:16:12 <ais523> ofc it's more elegant without, but with it's nicely interesting
09:16:34 <ais523> (incidentally, Borland Turbo Prolog had "nonlocal cut"; there was a built-in predicate that did a cut /somewhere else/ in your program)
09:16:37 <soupdragon> both stack and stream implementations have a (relatively) simple implementation of cut
09:16:39 <ais523> (which I think is truly inspired)
09:20:40 <ais523> Borland Turbo Prolog was strongly typed, but very inferior
09:20:45 <ais523> in that it didn't let you assert predicates at al
09:20:50 <ais523> and thus missed out on half the fun
09:21:10 <coppro> Borland Turbo X is usually inferior :(
09:21:14 <ais523> (in case you wanted to be able to do that, the compiler shipped with a Prolog interp written in Turbo Prolog, and told you to use that)
09:21:34 <coppro> hmm... we should make an esolang
09:21:44 <coppro> based on Borland's compilers
09:21:49 <ais523> coppro: well, it tended to be inferior in language terms, but faster
09:22:07 <ais523> hmm... try imagining something that's similar to MySQL but actually achieves its design goals
09:22:11 <ais523> it's that sort of concept
09:22:26 * ehirdiphone tries to get interesting strong prolog types
09:22:40 <coppro> also, clang is getting spell checking
09:24:28 <ehirdiphone> begat(god,adam). begat(adam,eve). begat : ?atom,atom
09:24:54 <ehirdiphone> basically just the number of params, those
09:26:25 <ehirdiphone> So how can we get interesting types? As in what do we actually include in the types
09:26:29 <soupdragon> there's lots of types in prolog already
09:27:02 <soupdragon> like CHR you can define algebraic types, which helps the compiler
09:27:32 <soupdragon> type succ (((i -> i) -> i -> i) -> ((i -> i) -> i -> i)) -> o.
09:28:24 <soupdragon> type flatten list (list A) -> list A -> o.
09:29:15 <soupdragon> curry (fix F \ (abs X \ (A (fst X) (snd X) (prp X)
09:29:15 <soupdragon> (fix F \ (abs Y \ (abs Z \ (A Y Z truth
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09:30:46 <ehirdiphone> because compose((lambda),X). would be... 'interesting'
09:31:44 <ehirdiphone> hmm I wonder what you'd call the operation of making two definitions in prolog
09:32:01 <soupdragon> :- chr_type tree ---> empty ; leaf(int) ; branch(tree, tree).
09:32:11 <soupdragon> :- chr_type list(T) ---> [] ; [T | list(T)].
09:32:24 <soupdragon> :- chr_type color ---> red ; blue ; yellow ; green.
09:32:41 <ehirdiphone> like I guess it's just fall through on failure
09:37:53 <ais523> reminds me of Reddit talking about StackOverflow talking about the --> operator in C++
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12:11:25 <soupdragon> boolean operators are just tables from a{0,1}^2
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12:23:06 <AnMaster> ais523, will you be around during midnight? If not I guess I should say happy new year in advance
12:23:27 <ais523> probably not, and happy new year back again
12:24:24 <ais523> soupdragon: I think it's been standardised a bit awkwardly, but that it's a decent language for accessing relational databases, and not really good for anything else
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12:27:34 <AnMaster> soupdragon, SQL: I don't know of any standard following implementation
12:27:52 <AnMaster> there probably is one, iirc Mimer SQL manages fairly well
12:28:00 <AnMaster> but even it is not 100% standard following iric
12:28:23 <AnMaster> (reason I know about the wierd software called Mimer SQL is that it was used in a database course at university)
12:28:53 <AnMaster> (I much prefer postgresql if I have to use one)
12:31:33 <AnMaster> soupdragon, is that really true? As in official?
12:32:42 <soupdragon> http://www.sqlite.org/images/syntax/create-table-stmt.gif
12:32:53 <soupdragon> http://www.sqlite.org/images/syntax/select-core.gif
12:32:57 <soupdragon> http://www.sqlite.org/images/syntax/single-source.gif
12:33:22 <AnMaster> I always liked those SQL syntax "flow-chart" sort of thingies
12:33:31 <AnMaster> never seen it used for any language but SQL
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14:04:36 <soupdragon> is it possible to implment RLE with SQL?
14:50:53 * soupdragon has figured it out and recommends this aas a fun challenge
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14:51:54 <AnMaster> soupdragon, standard SQL? or extensions?
14:52:10 <AnMaster> soupdragon, using procedural SQL?
14:52:29 <AnMaster> soupdragon, how did you do it them
14:53:01 <soupdragon> I'll paste the code somewhere when it's done
14:53:26 <AnMaster> soupdragon, using temporary tables? Which DBMS are you using btw?
14:53:50 <soupdragon> I was using sqlite but now I'm going to try DB2 Express because I heard that's better
14:54:30 <soupdragon> It can be all one select statement: But I use the temporary table to overwrite the starting sequence so you can run it in a loop (by reloading the file over and over)
14:58:36 <soupdragon> except installing DB2 is way beyond me at this point
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15:26:51 <soupdragon> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Look-and-say_sequence#SQL
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16:01:32 <AnMaster> soupdragon, I would use postgresql
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18:10:08 <ais523> happy australian mailman reminders day!
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19:46:37 <jpc> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gibberish <--- new esolang I just started. Anyone have any thoughts?
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20:40:06 <jpc> oh, and I have an interpreter for it that I need to post
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22:51:48 <AnMaster> happy new year (in 9 minutes, but will be away with family then)
22:57:10 <Slereah_> Fuck this year, I'm leaving it and never coming back!
23:45:13 -!- AnMaster has set topic: hubert who? http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | Happy new year.
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23:56:07 * SimonRC will hit the big 1262304000 in just a few minutes
23:56:25 <SimonRC> or new year in the One True Timezone
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23:57:42 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, happy new year 57 minutes ago!
23:58:02 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, also not five minutes. you said that at 00:57:07
23:58:12 <AnMaster> no way you are in a timezone offset by two minutes to GMT ;P
23:58:42 <ehirdiphone> iPhone does not do ntp surprisingly enough
23:58:59 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, but phones tend to set themselves after the network in some other way
23:59:13 <AnMaster> at least mine ask sometimes if I want to set the clock from the network time
23:59:46 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, O2? An SGI computer?