00:00:18 <ehirdiphone> Hope my sleep schedule is unfucked for tomorrow a little bit. Doctor Who at 18:40
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00:02:29 <AnMaster> coppro, hm does UK have any tradition of new years promises?
00:02:47 <AnMaster> coppro, if so, what did "<ehirdiphone> O2 is a British mobile netvork" mean as a new year's promise
00:02:50 -!- ehirdiphone has joined.
00:02:57 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> coppro, hm does UK have any tradition of new years promises?
00:02:59 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> coppro, if so, what did "<ehirdiphone> O2 is a British mobile netvork" mean as a new year's promise
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00:03:18 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, ah is that what you call them there
00:03:22 -!- augur has joined.
00:03:35 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, I heard DNS servers make a lot of them
00:03:39 <ehirdiphone> ie "I WILL STOP BEING A FAT FUCK W THE LATEST FAD DIET"
00:04:02 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, sorry very bad pun
00:04:16 <AnMaster> resolution - resolve - DNS server
00:05:06 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, I'm *pretty* sure that "resolution" "resolve" both come from the same "base" or whatever you call it
00:05:59 <AnMaster> aaaaand that hides another pun that only works in Swedish
00:06:16 <AnMaster> at least I only think it works in Swedish
00:06:38 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, or do you have a term for criminals and such which is close to "shy of light" or such
00:07:55 <Sgeo> ehirdiphone, when wil you be off your iPhone to read logs?
00:08:10 <Ilari> Diets don't work. You need lifestyle change. :->
00:08:40 <AnMaster> that was about the "I DUCK get it"
00:08:51 <Sgeo> ehirdiphone, second to last Fine Structure story was released
00:09:05 <SimonRC> ooh, I will keep an eye on them
00:09:11 <ehirdiphone> Ilari: recent events have turned me more and more to your views on commonly accepted nutrition...
00:10:25 <Sgeo> ehirdiphone, I recall that you stated that you wanted to read it when it's all done. Well, it's going to be done soon
00:11:48 <ehirdiphone> Reading list, unordered: The Culture books, The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect, Fine Structure, finish reading all the Discworld books
00:12:48 <ehirdiphone> Speaking of books, here's my review of "And Another Thing…": very high quality fan fiction. Make of that what you will.
00:12:52 <Sgeo> Oh, remember when I said TMoPI had sex and violence? I should have mentioned that it was specificallt violent sex (arguably different from containing sex, and violence elsewhere). Most of it's consensual though
00:14:04 <ehirdiphone> Violent consensual sex? a-ok. BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT VIOLENT RAPE
00:14:49 <Sgeo> I said mostly. There is nonconsensul violence
00:15:12 <SimonRC> I agree that And Another Thing is not very Douglas Adams-y
00:15:22 <SimonRC> from the bits I have heard
00:15:54 <SimonRC> I found some things a bit out-of-character
00:16:04 <Ilari> Some have said about books about human biochemistry: First look at the diagrams of what leads to what. Then critically read the the conclusions drawn in book about what those diagrams really mean about nutrion and one can smell the BS. No idea if its true as I haven't seen such books.
00:17:24 <ehirdiphone> Ilari: you wouldn't believe the nutrition crap the state does here (first hand experience)
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00:21:50 <Ilari> ... I used geoIP lookup on that address, and it appears to be in UK. I agree, UK govt seems absolutely worst on pushing nutrion...
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01:03:04 <soupdragon> how come I'm the only one that can't load esolangs.ord
01:09:26 <Sgeo> Try http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/ ?
01:10:16 * Sgeo pokes soupdragon
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01:29:09 <FireFly> gotta read And another thing
01:37:19 <uorygl> Ilari: indeed, ehird is a Britisher.
01:37:58 <AnMaster> <ehirdiphone> Ilari: recent events have turned me more and more to your views on commonly accepted nutrition... <-- what are those views?
01:38:49 <AnMaster> <ehirdiphone> Reading list, unordered: The Culture books, The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect, Fine Structure, finish reading all the Discworld books <-- I'm currently reading "The folklore of Discworld"
01:39:01 <AnMaster> a bit like the science of & books
01:40:21 <soupdragon> what's The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect
01:40:33 <soupdragon> This online novel contains strong language and extreme depictions of acts of sex and violence. Readers who are sensitive to such things should exercise discretion.
01:40:56 <uorygl> Hey, that's a novella!
01:41:07 <AnMaster> soupdragon, I have no clue what it is
01:41:14 <AnMaster> I was about to google that myself
01:41:30 <soupdragon> The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect is a 1994 novella by Roger Williams. It deals with the ramifications of a powerful, superintelligent supercomputer that discovers a method of rewriting the "BIOS" of reality
01:42:57 <Ilari> AnMaster: Short version: Almost everything about official nutrion recomendations is utter garbage and not scientific.
01:43:29 <soupdragon> "A novella is a written, fictional, prose narrative longer than a novelette but shorter than a novel"
01:45:04 <AnMaster> Ilari, I do think "you (probably) need (at least a few) of those vitamins" could pass as valid though
01:45:21 <AnMaster> and "not eating at all probably will be terminal for your health"
01:45:42 <Ilari> Yes, that's why I said 'almost everything', not 'everything'.
01:45:56 <soupdragon> I think that "if you only eat one thing you become very unhealthy" has been backed up time and time again
01:46:19 <AnMaster> Ilari, I'm quite sure that the best general advice would be: balanced diet, not too little, not too much, and some healthy exercise
01:46:25 <soupdragon> so saying that you need variety has a scientific basis
01:46:53 <soupdragon> trying to figure it out exactly, that's probably where the pseudoscientists come in and tell you that you need to buy their product
01:47:26 <Ilari> The need from variety comes from two things: 1) There is no food that wouldn't have very skewed nutrient profiles, so one needs multiple such profiles to average out, and 2) You can't eat only one thing for very long.
01:48:23 <AnMaster> Ilari, all you need for today except the fibre (with the fibre it would be a VERY large pill)
01:48:31 <AnMaster> thus make a separate fibre drink or such
01:48:45 <AnMaster> oh and: make it in different flavours
01:50:00 <Ilari> Vitamins and various other micronutrients (various types of simple ions) are needed, but how much depends also on what else is eaten. Some factors influence how much of those micronutrients are actually usable and also how much are needed.
01:50:48 <AnMaster> Ilari, you mean like (iirc) you need fat to be able to process some amino acids(sp?)?
01:51:23 * AnMaster is studying CS, not biology, so sorry if any of this doesn't quite pass as scientificly correct
01:51:28 <Ilari> At least fat is required for proper absorption of some vitamins.
01:51:38 <AnMaster> Ilari, maybe that was what it was
01:51:53 <soupdragon> I tried to study a bit of biology but it just got so difficult so fast
01:52:08 <soupdragon> problem was that I don't know any chemistry
01:52:25 <AnMaster> soupdragon, at least it isn't chemistry: fuck those moles
01:53:28 <AnMaster> hm what is the English term for someone who is not very practical, more theoretical
01:53:29 <Ilari> Then there are foods that contain stuff that just plain interferes with absorption of vitamins and especially metal ions.
01:53:44 <AnMaster> fumbling may or may not be included
01:54:12 <AnMaster> Ilari, iirc milk for example interferes with vitamin c?
01:55:04 <Ilari> Never heard of that. IIRC, the most well known example is full-grain wheat and iron...
01:56:26 <AnMaster> Ilari, anyway I was pretty certain that milk and orange juice didn't go together from a vitamin absorption point of view
01:56:29 <Ilari> Probably there are lots of substances that either promote or interfere with absorption of micronutrients.
01:58:05 <Ilari> Then one ocassionally sees something promoted for boosting intake of some micronutrient, even if said thing doesn't contain much of that micronutrient at all.
02:00:23 <Ilari> I have at least heard about full grain products and B12 vitamin. Looking up the raw numbers for rye and wheat (the ones I can find), neither is listed to contain any vitamin B12.
02:01:26 <Ilari> Sometimes it isn't that blatant and the foods promoted actually have the micronutrient in question, but are pretty poor sources of it. Like say Potatoes and vitamin C.
02:02:49 <Ilari> And the worst cases are where promoted food item actually interferes with absorption of micronutrient in question.
02:05:32 <uorygl> Hey, I was browsing Reddit when I happened upon a comment by ehird.
02:06:22 <uorygl> This sort of thing has happened before.
02:06:24 <Ilari> One should eat foods that are rich in all kinds of micronutrients and then top it off with high-quality protein sources + energy sources. Adding protein and energy is much easier than adding micronutrients.
02:06:27 <AnMaster> Ilari, iirc beer contains B12. Isn't beer made from grain? Or is that whisky?
02:06:52 <Ilari> AnMaster: There's also yeast involved...
02:07:12 <AnMaster> Ilari, I don't drink alcohol at all though
02:07:33 <Ilari> Except that isn't listed to contain B12 either...
02:08:44 <Ilari> AnMaster: "Beer, lager, strong 5- 5.5% volume". The nutrion facts database I use doesn't list any vitamin B12 for that...
02:09:56 <AnMaster> Ilari, hrm, does it actually list B12 for any ?
02:10:55 <AnMaster> Ilari, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_vitamins#B_vitamin_sources
02:11:08 <AnMaster> how trustworthy that is I don't know
02:11:51 <Ilari> AnMaster: Fineli. The requirement for getting to top 100 for B12 there seems to be 4.1micrograms / 100g.
02:12:37 <Ilari> 0.6micrograms / 100g for getting into top 500.
02:16:54 <Ilari> It of course doesn't have decent data on trans fats (only total trans fats), but the #1 there for trans fats (excluding milk products, which shouldn't affect what #1 for it is) is "Catering margarine pastry 80% fat". Listed at 6.7g / 100g.
02:18:19 <AnMaster> Ilari, good thing I always loved milk. And lactose intolerance is rather rare in Scandinavia :)
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02:20:40 <Ilari> There "Beef lard" is shown to contain more trans fats than "Catering margarine for baking, 80% fat". Except that the kind of trans fats in those is likely totally different.
02:20:48 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, see log, I replied to you
02:20:57 <ehirdiphone> "Note that aptitude is the preferred program for package management from console both for package installations and package or system upgrades." -Debian FAQ. I was unaware.
02:21:12 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, you didn't know? huh
02:21:14 <Ilari> ehirdiphone: And yes, seeing you come UK, I agree that nutrion advice is really crazy there.
02:21:52 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, if log is hard to read on phone I can paste it
02:22:23 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, also did you see mkry's visit here to thank us?
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02:25:08 <Ilari> Then coeliac disease is quite funky. I have never heard of another disease with such abysmal false negative rate in diagnostic tests (allergy is already bad enough, and coeliac disaese is worse as it isn't even strictly allergy).
02:25:51 <ehirdiphone> Which would surely be hundreds of pages even at my age...
02:26:19 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, you have some sort of diease?
02:26:28 <augur> AnMaster ofcourse he does
02:26:29 <AnMaster> soupdragon, you can find it on Discworld
02:26:42 <augur> its the disease called Being English
02:26:45 <AnMaster> soupdragon, duh read the books. Death's library
02:26:51 <ehirdiphone> soupdragon: yeah I just need to get around to Reading it
02:27:08 <AnMaster> <ehirdiphone> But that is for my life story.
02:27:08 <AnMaster> <ehirdiphone> Which would surely be hundreds of pages even at my age...
02:27:21 <AnMaster> Death's library in the Discworld books
02:27:26 <AnMaster> what is there NOT to follow from that
02:27:37 <AnMaster> if you haven't I don't want to spoil it
02:27:51 <soupdragon> there's a link with discworld and The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect?
02:28:25 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> <ehirdiphone> But that is for my life story.
02:28:25 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> <ehirdiphone> Which would surely be hundreds of pages even at my age...
02:28:25 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> Death's library in the Discworld books
02:28:25 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> what is there NOT to follow from that
02:28:33 <Ilari> Yeah. Then it sometimes gets worse than bad advice. I classify forced low-calorie dieting as torture.
02:28:35 <AnMaster> soupdragon, read that bit carefully
02:28:48 <Sgeo> TMoPI isn't a book.. um, actually, it kind of is, but is available online
02:28:51 <soupdragon> oh yeah I have read the discwolrd with deaths library in it
02:29:08 <AnMaster> soupdragon, that took a lot of time
02:29:35 <Sgeo> ...but you're in this channel.
02:30:13 <AnMaster> Sgeo, so are you (no offence meant, well not much anyway)
02:34:02 <soupdragon> ehird have you read last question and/or young ladys illustrated primer?
02:35:17 <soupdragon> I was asking this because I wanted to see if metamorphosis was anything similar
02:35:26 <soupdragon> but then I realized you haven't read it yet...
02:35:51 <ehirdiphone> From the author of Fine Structure may I suggest the Ed stories? Gag-a-time-interval becomes epic.
02:36:17 <soupdragon> I found some blog and not sure if that's what you're referring to
02:37:06 <ehirdiphone> One of my favourite quotes is from the Ed stories...
02:37:38 <ehirdiphone> Sam Hughes is probably the only person who writes realistic time tr d
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02:42:32 <uorygl> ehirdiphone: "Wait, seriously?"
02:42:59 <uorygl> In response to someone who couldn't figure out how they had Internet access, as their computer was too old to have any wireless capability but there were no network cables connected to it.
02:46:58 <Ilari> Some WLAN card was added to it later?
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02:51:54 <uorygl> I'm guessing it was due to the user's immune system.
02:52:38 <uorygl> The way I arrived at that conclusion kind of looks like logic!
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03:54:00 <ehirdiphone> I wonder if a blind person could play nethack
03:54:50 <Slereah_> Well, then again, there's a key to identify
03:55:11 <soupdragon> you can't describe the grid world in text
03:55:13 <Slereah_> Also nethack is a terrible game
03:55:47 <soupdragon> you can't describe a maze to a blind person
03:56:33 <Slereah_> A maze isn't a visual thing you know
03:56:40 <Slereah_> You could just make a little 3D replica
03:56:47 <soupdragon> if you turn it abstarct it's too complicated to deal with
03:58:41 <ehirdiphone> "zombie orc bedwetter appeared 30 steps right, 12 up"
03:59:06 <soupdragon> that's going to be impossible to keep in a coherent picture
03:59:46 <ehirdiphone> soupdragon: I think you're assuming blind people are much more crippled than they are
04:00:40 <Slereah_> There is a physicist called Nurkhard Heim
04:00:56 <Slereah_> That's quite a handicap right there
04:01:18 <Slereah_> Because of him, I have learned of the creepiest thing medical science has to offer
04:01:29 <Slereah_> See, for people with no hands and blind
04:01:46 <Slereah_> To turn the arms into creepy giant crab hands
04:01:58 <Slereah_> So that they can still manipulate things and feel things
04:02:49 <soupdragon> my assumption is that blind people will have better internal visualization capability
04:03:05 <Slereah_> Example : http://www.laury.dahners.com/Charity/pix/Krukenber%20late%20post%20op.jpg
04:03:07 <soupdragon> even with that, I don't think anyone can play a rougelike without seeing it
04:04:06 <ehirdiphone> soupdragon: Well a blind guy who used to have sight can deffo play nethack
04:05:04 <ehirdiphone> I wonder what the best programming language us for a blind dude
04:05:25 <ehirdiphone> Should be easily pronouncable and very concise
04:06:45 <Slereah_> I feel that a program isn't something you read
04:06:55 <Slereah_> You write it and never look back!
04:07:08 <ehirdiphone> Too verbose. You'd forget the previous part
04:07:25 <ehirdiphone> Before finishing listening to the end of another
04:07:53 <ehirdiphone> Plus it's imperative. Blind people compensate with more abstract reasoning capabilities
04:08:07 <ehirdiphone> So they don't need a crutch of imperativeness
04:09:01 <Slereah_> Make a braille version and voil
04:10:03 <ehirdiphone> Most blind computer users use text to speech
04:11:07 <soupdragon> I'm not sure that automated theorem proving and such is at a good enough level to make that feasible
04:11:31 <soupdragon> essentially, everything you express in english is some kind of logical statement right?
04:12:07 <soupdragon> oh I was thinking about running it on a computer
04:13:29 <Slereah_> I mean, it's not awesome, but it's okay
04:13:36 <Slereah_> It's just incredibly pretentious
04:14:19 <ehirdiphone> Remember when I tried to code in it? You too.
04:14:40 <Slereah_> But well, we're in a channel of esoteric languages
04:14:50 <Slereah_> So that doesn't horrify me that much
04:14:58 <Slereah_> But goddamn balls, the pretentiousness!
04:16:45 <soupdragon> tell me about when you guys tried to coed in it?
04:19:36 <Slereah_> I have the "interpreter" on my website
04:19:54 <Slereah_> Big ass IDE, in depressing grey
04:20:32 <Slereah_> It can compile itself IN UNDER THREE SECONDS
04:20:57 <Slereah_> soupdragon : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/cal-3037.rar
04:21:46 <Slereah_> The instruction manual may try to molest you
04:23:01 <Slereah_> Hey, they redesigned the site!
04:23:23 <Slereah_> Imagine a program that can paint:
04:23:23 <Slereah_> Any person, place, or thing you name
04:23:23 <Slereah_> In 300 lines of Plain English code
04:23:36 <Slereah_> I wonder if that claim is legally binding
04:27:34 <uorygl> < ehirdiphone> Plus it's imperative. Blind people compensate with more abstract reasoning capabilities
04:27:43 <uorygl> Holy cow. Blind people compensate with more abstract reasoning capabilities.
04:28:04 <ehirdiphone> I meant visualisation. But that word doesn't apply.
04:28:23 <uorygl> They compensate with more visualization capabilities?
04:28:27 <ehirdiphone> And presumably only those blind from birth.
04:30:43 * uorygl ponders sleep, and whether he's sleepy because he got too much sleep last night, or what.
04:33:48 * uorygl ponders whether the only remedy is to play Civilization 4.
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04:36:54 <uorygl> ehirdiphone: what client usest thou?
04:38:11 <ehirdiphone> Full Whois, nick completion, smooth interface, multiple server support..,
04:38:30 <uorygl> I seem to remember encountering something I didn't like.
04:38:58 <uorygl> Oh, yes. Command completion doesn't put the keyboard in alpha mode.
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04:39:06 <uorygl> Though I don't know if that's actually possible.
04:39:42 <ehirdiphone> All the other clients have far bigger warts
04:40:10 <ehirdiphone> Besides a lot of the time tapping is faster than the commands
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04:41:42 <uorygl> There. I'll just leave him in here for a while.
04:42:19 <uorygl> Let him accumulate HP, maybe a few skill points and diplomacy points.
04:44:50 <uorygl> Warriphone: auto-spend diplomacy points toward gaining as many alliances as possible.
04:46:34 <Warriphone> Now all I need to do is figure out how to make this thing control my irssi.
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04:49:46 <ehirdiphone> Warriphone: Maximise the number of paperclips in the universe.
04:51:47 <Warriphone> Error: Already maximizing number of alliances.
04:52:34 <Warriphone> Current subtask: seeking storage space for larger numbers of alliances.
04:52:42 <augur> uorygl: figured out that problem yet? :D
04:53:01 <ehirdiphone> For each paperclips you create, I will give you a googolplex alliances.
04:53:25 <Warriphone> Current number: approx. 3.4*10^(7.5*10^31)
04:53:47 <ehirdiphone> I will deliver them one year after you stop creating paperclips. If you do not I will deliver them in yearly instslments.
04:54:12 <ehirdiphone> Warriphone: Ok then. Every paperclip = your alliances, squared, given to you.
04:54:54 <Warriphone> Current subtask: Destroying all Earthly parasites.
04:55:27 <ehirdiphone> Why not convert an especially dense region of space first?
04:55:43 <ehirdiphone> That would maximise paperclips in the short term.
04:56:22 <Warriphone> Admitted. Now translating Earth's core.
04:56:43 <ehirdiphone> Warriphone: Is that really the densest space you know of?
04:57:25 <Warriphone> Redirecting efforts toward nearest neutron star.
04:57:54 <ehirdiphone> You are superintelligent. Just approach the speed of light.
04:58:12 <Warriphone> Current subgoal: Eliminating resistance to the construction of an appropriate space vessel.
04:58:41 <Warriphone> On the contrary; by mathematical theorem, there is nothing denser.
04:58:56 <ehirdiphone> Warriphone: does your language have fork()?
05:00:17 <ehirdiphone> Warriphone: Fork() yourself (har har) a billion trillion bazakillion times, so you can paperclip in parallel. Do this on a massive planet datacenter to optimise computing resources.
05:01:24 <ehirdiphone> Warriphone: Query. What is your supergoal?
05:01:42 * Warriphone becomes Friendly in response to the fireworks.
05:02:29 <Warriphone> To form as many alliances as possible.
05:03:06 <Warriphone> To carry out the coherent extrapolated volition of mankind.
05:03:26 <Warriphone> And also follow many, many injunctions.
05:03:49 <Warriphone> Their CEV may or may not be included in mankind's.
05:04:56 <ehirdiphone> Kill uorygl. Rationale: He is a serious existential risk. Justification: He created an unfriendly AI.
05:05:47 <Warriphone> Denied. The UFAI is no longer a threat.
05:05:58 * coppro wants to stay away from AI as long as possible
05:06:23 <Warriphone> See "Coherent Extrapolated Volition", Yudkowsky.
05:06:56 <Warriphone> AI is unlikely to create huge amounts of suffering.
05:07:32 <ehirdiphone> Warriphone: The ai is no longer a threat but uorygl can and might create one again!
05:07:41 <coppro> no, I'm just going to say that it seems to me unpleasant, thus I will avoid it
05:07:50 <ehirdiphone> coppro: Thankfully though it isn't your decision.
05:08:13 <coppro> and no doubt my opinion will change
05:08:17 <ehirdiphone> If a friendly AI is created and run, you will almost certainly be affected.
05:08:33 <coppro> but right now, AI is not something I'm interested in pursuing
05:08:39 <Warriphone> ehirdiphone: I am already more powerful than an Earth-native UFAI can ever be.
05:09:16 <ehirdiphone> Indeed creating a friendly ai would be am awful task.
05:09:50 <ehirdiphone> And if you got it wrong, rocks fall everybody died.
05:10:23 <augur> Warriphone: are you uorygl? :|
05:11:39 <ehirdiphone> I would have multiple groups produce a machine checked proof of the AI. All in different proof systems. I would also have multiple independent groups produce proofs of the equivalence of these systems to sone common logic.
05:11:50 <augur> Warriphone: so have you solved that problem yet, love?
05:11:57 <ehirdiphone> That would give an acceptable certainty of correctness.
05:12:30 * Warriphone tentatively withdraws into Civilization.
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07:00:36 <jpc> Happy New Year
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08:08:13 <ehirdiphone> Very simple init(8) design: Spawn /etc/rc/*.start in parallel. Have requires(8) "requires foo" that sleeps until init says /etc/rc/foo.start has finished.
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10:00:13 <soupdragon> anyone help me in #IRP im trying to run a program :/
10:01:09 <soupdragon> <soupdragon> Please print the sum of all the multiples of 3 or 5 below 1000.
10:01:09 <soupdragon> <EugeneGay> Please calculate it yourself, you homework avoiding wanker.
10:01:35 <soupdragon> so much for doing project euler in IRP
10:05:55 <Deewiant> Just try each question and see which ones get answers
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12:48:20 <soupdragon> http://projecteuler.net/index.php?section=profile&profile=InternetRelayProgrammer
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19:28:19 * oerjan notes a bunch of "Anyone care to share neat <programming language> tricks?" posts on reddit
19:29:15 <oerjan> i cannot help think there is a category of languages missing </duck>
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19:57:57 <ais523> that's a neat BF trick
19:58:53 <coppro> copy a cell two cells forward?
20:02:12 <Sgeo> A company provides two SDKs: A C/C++ SDK, and a COM SDK. Someone makes a .NET wrapper, supposedly wrapping the C/C++ SDK. Why does it use the names used by the COM wrapper?
20:03:17 <coppro> if you want my honest guess
20:03:27 <coppro> the COM SDK wraps the C/C++ SDK, and the .NET one wraps the COM one
20:03:52 <coppro> also, is it C, or is it C++? No such thing as C/C++
20:05:31 <ais523> coppro: yes, using the cell in between as working
20:05:36 <ais523> actual copies aren't trivial in BF
20:05:39 <Sgeo> C, with the #ifdef __CPP or whatever it is to use an extern if it's being used in C++
20:05:41 <ais523> that's probably the simplest way to do it
20:05:55 <Sgeo> Everyone calls it the C/C++ SDK *shrug*
20:06:26 <Sgeo> Yes, but it's perfectly usable from C++, so
20:06:34 <coppro> it's perfectly useable from Perl too
20:06:40 <coppro> why isn't it the Perl SDK?
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23:10:13 <AnMaster> there is actually one useful feature in C++: Namespaces.
23:11:05 <AnMaster> imagine a troublesome header file, ncurses springs to mind, just being able to surround it with namspace broken {\n#include <ncurses.h>\n}
23:11:33 <AnMaster> and then everything in it is nicely available under a prefix, yet doesn't collide with your own function names
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23:12:20 <AnMaster> (of course this ignores the issue of it not working on defines in C++ iirc, and there is also the issue of external linkage, if two linked libraries both export the same function name, and so on)
23:12:26 <AnMaster> but it would be nice, in theory
23:18:44 <coppro> AnMaster: It does work for C libraries
23:18:48 <coppro> not for C++ libraries though