←2011-01-14 2011-01-15 2011-01-16→ ↑2011 ↑all
00:00:04 <Vorpal> <elliott> i'm not sure it's possible... maybe starting on the <-- yes it is
00:00:06 <Vorpal> I told you how
00:00:07 <Vorpal> duh
00:00:28 <Vorpal> oklopol, you can tell him what I said. He is obviously /ignore-ing me. I don't know why
00:01:02 <oklopol> what exactly should i tell him?
00:01:11 <elliott> http://image.bayimg.com/padlgaade.jpg
00:01:14 <Vorpal> oklopol, that I told him how it is possible to do that :P
00:01:19 <Sgeo> elliott, are you ignoring Vorpal?
00:01:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:01:44 <elliott> Until XChat can be configured to ignore mentions of names I will have to do it mentally.
00:01:44 -!- pumpkin has joined.
00:01:51 <elliott> I'll write a script to do it at some point.
00:01:59 <j-invariant> LOL
00:02:02 <Vorpal> how strange. Well if that is his style
00:02:11 <Sgeo> elliott, Vorpal suggested sneaking over the edge
00:02:30 <Vorpal> he will refuse to acknowledge this
00:02:33 <elliott> Sgeo: I recommend not trying to evade ignores.
00:02:36 <Vorpal> which will be utterly stupid
00:02:37 <Vorpal> see
00:02:40 <Vorpal> that is what I told you
00:02:49 <Vorpal> how immature
00:02:53 <elliott> Vorpal might note that that method is exactly what I said, however.
00:02:56 <oklopol> elliott: Vorpal suggested what Sgeo said, but you don't even need to have that, all we need is that you can remove the topmost dirt from piles close to you, if you have good visibility
00:03:03 <Vorpal> <elliott> Vorpal might note that that method is exactly what I said, however. <-- no
00:03:04 <oklopol> erm
00:03:05 <Vorpal> it wasn't
00:03:11 <oklopol> oh of course you then can't remove the last one
00:03:16 <Vorpal> you said "<elliott> i'm not sure it's possible... maybe starting on the" after
00:04:16 <elliott> "The Blue Creeper is a new variety of creeper that spawns in the dark just like normal creepers, but they have a much different behaviour pattern. Instead of puffing up, these creepers launch themselves into the air like a rocket! After that, they explode on impact with the ground, so get out of there!!!"
00:04:17 <elliott> Oh, lovely.
00:04:19 <elliott> Just what I need.
00:04:39 <j-invariant> btw
00:04:44 <oklopol> but it's actually still possible with a slightly less powerful visibility (which i don't specify): you have AB and C on top of C, now add D next to A on another axis, remove B, then remove D, jump on C and remove A
00:04:49 <j-invariant> I was able to hook a creeper on the fishing line to actually get him off my treehouse :P
00:04:56 <elliott> j-invariant: :D
00:05:03 <elliott> oklopol: start minecraft theory
00:05:35 <Sgeo> Bloody piece of shit website
00:05:42 <Sgeo> STOP BEING DOWN
00:06:20 <Sgeo> It's back up?
00:06:22 <Sgeo> o.O
00:06:47 <elliott> j-invariant: http://twitter.com/pigworker/status/25835213661675520
00:06:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
00:07:02 <Sgeo> And it's back down
00:07:07 * Sgeo stabs elliott angrily
00:07:12 <elliott> What.
00:07:34 <Sgeo> I'm just taking out my anger at this website on you
00:07:50 <oklopol> elliott is an awesome punching bag
00:08:04 <elliott> indeed, but for the gormet punching experience may i recommend oklopol
00:08:09 <elliott> *gourmet
00:08:10 <oklopol> mmmm
00:08:12 <oklopol> gourmet
00:08:34 <oklopol> i should probably eat some meat. and possibly some noodles.
00:08:43 <elliott> how gourmet
00:09:11 <oklopol> yes, i have a binary scale from uninteresting to gourmet
00:10:41 <oklopol> it's actually a bit crazy that even if you have an infinite plane, there is actually no way to even get one block down from it
00:10:47 <oklopol> unless there already are blocks down
00:11:07 <oklopol> is there with some tool or something?
00:11:15 * Sgeo oohs at http://isup.me
00:11:16 <oklopol> sand doesn't help in this case
00:12:15 <fizzie> oklopol: If your spawn-point is on the plane, jump down, place blocks as you fall, die, respawn, go down.
00:12:29 <fizzie> I guess that doesn't quite count.
00:12:29 <oklopol> well sure, by using one life, you can lower the plane as much as you like
00:13:13 <elliott> Sgeo: "oohs"?
00:13:18 <elliott> you seriously haven't seen it before?
00:13:20 <oklopol> the whole plane, since if you have even one block under the plane, you can easily destroy the whole plane, and build another plane from that single block (ignoring the fact it's an infinite plane, but anyhow i think you can do it lazily)
00:13:29 <Sgeo> elliott, I haven't seen the shortened domain before.
00:13:36 <j-invariant> :/
00:13:41 <j-invariant> what the hell is impressive about that
00:13:44 <elliott> Sgeo: ...you're oohing at a domain being slightly shorter.
00:13:49 <elliott> Your... brain is... broken.
00:13:53 <fizzie> oklopol: Maybe if you ride a boat down you could (theoretically) place blocks as you fall in such a way that you'd be able to jump from the boat on to one of them. (I'm not sure how well you can jump from a falling boat, however.)
00:13:57 <elliott> Your brain is completely and utterly not working correctly in any way whatsoever.
00:14:00 <oklopol> oh my god Sgeo, what the hell did you just do! please apologize
00:14:03 <j-invariant> for once I actually agree with elliott
00:14:09 <elliott> j-invariant: that hurts man, that hurts :D
00:14:10 <fizzie> oklopol: And then there was the water thing.
00:14:11 <oklopol> me too
00:14:28 <Sgeo> oklopol, um?
00:14:32 <Vorpal> <elliott> Sgeo: ...you're oohing at a domain being slightly shorter. <-- "slightly"?
00:14:41 <Vorpal> the one I remember is rather long
00:14:42 <oklopol> ohh right, make a waterfall, go down by boat, put some blocks, come up?
00:14:50 <fizzie> You can just swim down/up.
00:14:53 <oklopol> tru
00:15:19 <oklopol> so again, that's kind of trivial
00:15:22 <fizzie> oklopol: I don't suppose you could hang at the "bottom" of a ladder and place a continuation block below where the ladder ends? (Probably not.)
00:15:34 <Sgeo> Seriously? Not having to type as much is not ooh worthy?
00:15:41 <Sgeo> [Bookmarks are useless for me]
00:15:43 <oklopol> i want a problem that doesn't have an *effective* solution, like you'd need a bot and it'd take ages to do
00:15:52 <oklopol> fizzie: i don't know, was wondering
00:15:55 <Vorpal> <fizzie> oklopol: Maybe if you ride a boat down you could (theoretically) place blocks as you fall in such a way that you'd be able to jump from the boat on to one of them. (I'm not sure how well you can jump from a falling boat, however.) <-- you can exit a falling boat. I don't think you can jump from one though. Never tried in single player since falling on a falling boat hurts (it falls slower than
00:15:55 <Vorpal> you do except when you hit it and your vertical speed is reset to zero)
00:15:56 <elliott> Sgeo: yes, it seriously is not
00:16:25 <Sgeo> There's a certain elegance to the new domain name
00:16:25 <Vorpal> Sgeo, elliott is wrong
00:16:37 <Vorpal> Sgeo, though perhaps you did over-react a bit
00:16:46 <Vorpal> but he is way too hard. I think he gone nuts recently
00:16:59 <Sgeo> "recently"
00:16:59 <Sgeo> ?
00:17:05 <Vorpal> Sgeo, well more than usually
00:17:17 <Vorpal> Sgeo, he has been nuts for a long time
00:17:21 <Vorpal> but not this much
00:17:36 <Sgeo> I'm pretty sure his reaction is typical of him
00:17:47 <Vorpal> Sgeo, well true. But I meant in general
00:18:00 <oklopol> are there minecraft puzzles somewhere?
00:18:21 <Vorpal> oklopol, that sounds interesting
00:18:23 <elliott> a certain elegeance
00:18:25 <elliott> *elegance
00:18:26 <oklopol> maybe you could do some stuff with resource limitations, dunno
00:18:26 <elliott> honestly
00:18:27 <Vorpal> oklopol, do you mean physical ones?
00:18:29 <fizzie> Sgeo: There's a domain (registered) called up.is, that could be made one of those is-it-up sites.
00:18:39 <Vorpal> oklopol, or puzzles to solve in-game?
00:18:42 <elliott> also if you're replying to Vorpal which I suspect, he's currently in his regular elliott whine mode
00:18:53 <Vorpal> no I'm not
00:18:57 <elliott> where he uses every situation as an opportunity to talk about how horrible i am, i doubt j-invariant and oklopol got the same treatment despite them agreeing
00:19:00 <Vorpal> you are in going nuts mode
00:19:01 <oklopol> puzzles to solve in-game would necessarily be pretty trivial wouldn't they
00:19:04 <elliott> but then Vorpal never was one for consistency, non-hypocrisy, logic, ...
00:19:13 <elliott> oklopol: that's what ADVENTURE mode is going to be
00:19:16 <elliott> no block placing which is just stupid
00:19:17 <Vorpal> oh come on. You are not one for them either
00:19:32 <oklopol> well of course there has to be block placing and removing
00:19:51 <oklopol> otherwise obviously you can execute any puzzle as a computer program opening a door if the correct switches are used
00:20:06 <Sgeo> BRB
00:20:24 <oklopol> or alternatively: that wouldn't really be a minecraft puzzle
00:21:01 <oklopol> Vorpal: in-game, sure, but in the sense that you are given extra rules
00:21:16 <fizzie> oklopol: Minecraft without block placement is like a farm without the wife walking on the granary path, you know. (I don't suppose the "talo ilman aitanpolulla astelevaa emäntää" thing is an international idiom.)
00:21:17 <oklopol> hmmhmm
00:21:27 <oklopol> could you build a trap that can't be destroyed easily without dying?
00:21:28 <j-invariant> next time I'm setting up base somewhere isolated I am saving the coordinates
00:22:01 <j-invariant> P.S. how the hell am I supposed to SEE the coordinates over that graph
00:22:09 <olsner> Someone highlighted me.
00:22:14 <oklopol> that's a problem i have as well
00:22:23 <elliott> j-invariant: get a better cpu
00:22:26 <elliott> and it'll take up less of the graph :-)
00:22:39 <olsner> Oh. Wow.
00:22:41 <olsner> <elliott> olsner: "ridiculous. ant/nant is already the ultimate build system." --actual person expressing actual, non-sarcastic opinion
00:22:50 <fizzie> Using a larger and/or a differently shaped window might also help. (I don't know if it scales the font size or not.)
00:22:52 <olsner> OUTRAGE!
00:23:44 <elliott> olsner: when someone said "but XML" they replied "well nant fixes that!" (paraphrased)
00:23:49 <oklopol> hmm, could you make something like a huge amount of arrow guns that shoot at you no matter which way you approach the thing?
00:24:04 <elliott> oklopol: probably
00:24:13 <oklopol> from bedrock to clouds
00:24:20 <elliott> you can go above clouds
00:24:20 <oklopol> shooting all the time
00:24:23 <elliott> oklopol: you can place dispensers in any direction
00:24:26 <elliott> shooting all the time? heh
00:24:27 <olsner> the only remedy would be if nant stands for "not ant", but even in the negative starting with ant is the wrong way
00:24:32 <elliott> that's just a constant redstone circuit
00:24:35 <oklopol> elliott: up as well? oh cool
00:24:45 <olsner> kind of like how SVN wouldn't have been any better if it was "not cvs" instead of "better cvs"
00:24:48 <elliott> olsner: nant = .NET ant
00:24:50 <elliott> oklopol: er well doubtful
00:24:53 <fizzie> Is "nant" that Ant-like .net build tool? Because that's XML build files too.
00:25:02 <elliott> maybe it just uses LESS XML!
00:25:05 <oklopol> oh you just meant in any nwes direction
00:25:05 <elliott> oklopol: but if you build bedrock to top you can't go above anyway
00:25:06 <elliott> well
00:25:10 <elliott> you can climb to the top, but
00:25:16 <elliott> that's basically unsolvable
00:25:21 <elliott> even with arrows, you could climb to the top
00:25:22 <fizzie> http://nant.sourceforge.net/release/latest/help/fundamentals/buildfiles.html -- yeah, I'm sure that's very nice to anyone who hates XML.
00:25:23 <elliott> and just jump over quickly
00:25:29 <oklopol> is it? what if you build a wall as you go
00:25:35 <elliott> you'd get killed from the fall though
00:25:36 <elliott> oklopol: eh?
00:25:40 <oklopol> we may assume a single arrow kills you
00:26:09 <elliott> oklopol: are the cows in this model spherical?
00:26:10 <oklopol> elliott: like, dunno, somehow shield yourself from the arrows
00:26:21 <olsner> great: "NAnt's build files are written in XML. Each build file contains one project and a number of targets. Each target contains a number of tasks."
00:26:21 <oklopol> if it makes the puzzle interesting, sure
00:26:22 <elliott> oklopol: i think it's quite simple
00:26:32 <olsner> that's *exactly what ant does*
00:26:44 <elliott> oklopol: does the inside need to be guarded too?
00:26:52 <elliott> i.e. do you want people inside to be shot
00:26:58 <oklopol> no
00:27:07 <oklopol> that's the goal, to get inside
00:27:08 <oklopol> maybe.
00:27:09 <fizzie> olsner: That's not surprising, given that it's designed to be "like Ant".
00:27:14 <elliott> oklopol: build each wall with the arrows facing outwards
00:27:33 <oklopol> ?
00:27:38 <elliott> oklopol: this misses diagonals, so if you approach from a diagonal, time it right, and put two dirt in front of you, you can shield
00:27:41 <oklopol> (btw i just realized you can just approach diagonally)
00:27:46 <olsner> fizzie: according to some supporters nant fixes all the problems with using xml
00:27:46 <elliott> well you might need two i think arrows go through one block with dispensers
00:27:50 <elliott> oklopol: and then you just have to like
00:27:57 <elliott> build one platform, place dirt over dispenser quickly
00:28:00 <elliott> repeat until you get to the top
00:28:02 <elliott> oklopol: alternatively
00:28:09 <elliott> oklopol: start far enough away that the arrows don't reach you
00:28:09 <oklopol> maybe the trap sends minecarts shooting arrows by using zombies
00:28:11 <elliott> build tower to level 128
00:28:13 <oklopol> erm
00:28:15 <elliott> build dirt towards tower
00:28:16 <elliott> step over
00:28:17 <oklopol> not zombies, skeletons
00:28:17 <Sgeo> Do dispensers have any user other than weaponry?
00:28:18 <elliott> fall to death
00:28:24 <elliott> Sgeo: yes
00:28:31 <elliott> Sgeo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RAjfNdZ0hw
00:28:55 <oklopol> elliott: you can be higher than highest dirt?
00:29:04 <elliott> oklopol: you can stand on top of it
00:29:16 <elliott> oklopol: so the dispenser would be level with what you're standing on
00:29:19 <elliott> thus making you immune to its arrows
00:30:00 <elliott> oklopol: is your game done
00:30:03 <elliott> yet
00:30:12 <oklopol> in that case you can approach any trap: no trap can destroy your dirts, and no trap can shoot up, so you can just remove one layer of the trap at a time
00:30:18 <oklopol> one level i mean
00:30:33 <oklopol> starting from the top
00:30:39 <oklopol> blergh
00:31:04 <elliott> oklopol: hehe
00:31:10 <elliott> oklopol: question, you know your game
00:31:15 <oklopol> i know it
00:31:22 <oklopol> it's not ready yet btw
00:31:38 <elliott> oklopol: it's 2d universe right
00:31:45 <oklopol> yes
00:32:00 <oklopol> 3d is always ugly
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00:32:34 <elliott> oklopol: i have an idea you will enjoy
00:32:40 <oklopol> i'm sure i will
00:32:43 <elliott> oklopol: 3d universe with 2d cross-section interface
00:32:46 <elliott> oklopol: i.e. the dwarf fortress model
00:32:56 <elliott> all the freedom of 3d, all the beauty of 2d, all the incomprehensibility of the combination
00:32:59 <oklopol> yeah that's a retarded idea
00:33:24 <elliott> oklopol: you hurt me
00:33:50 <elliott> oklopol: why's it retarded :p
00:34:02 <oklopol> less ugly than the usual 3d view, sure, but so is rendering a 3d world as a butterfly flying around on your screen.
00:34:07 <oklopol> doesn't really make the gameplay all that fun.
00:34:31 <Sgeo> Why are you down, website? Why? Why must you do this to me?
00:34:37 <Sgeo> You are tearing me apart, website!
00:34:43 <oklopol> you would be a complete cripple against an enemy
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00:35:11 <oklopol> a human that uses the usual 3d rendering or an ai
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00:35:17 <elliott> oklopol: make it 4d then
00:35:26 <elliott> oklopol: everyone's a cripple
00:35:28 <oklopol> 4d is always a viable option
00:35:29 <oklopol> :D
00:35:38 <elliott> oklopol: now how you render this is
00:35:48 <quintopia> speaking of 4d...is that 4d platformer thing any closer to public playability/
00:35:54 <elliott> oklopol: pick a 4d->3d projection, preferably the craziest one you can think of that works in discrete space
00:36:04 <elliott> oklopol: then do the cross-section 3d->2d thing
00:36:13 <elliott> oklopol: congrats, least understandable world, ever
00:36:41 <Sgeo> http://www.sct-bus.org/br.html is up, but the main website isn't
00:36:44 <oklopol> maybe a 1d projection would be nice
00:36:44 * Sgeo mindboggles
00:36:58 <oklopol> erm
00:37:01 <oklopol> i meant to say 0d
00:37:09 <elliott> oklopol: use the most mathematically pretty Z^2 -> Z projection you can think of
00:37:13 <elliott> and render the plane in 1d like that
00:37:20 <oklopol> :D
00:37:24 <elliott> oklopol: omg, then do a 3d projection like this:
00:37:25 <oklopol> hey that's actually a great idea
00:37:33 <elliott> oklopol: first row is everything with z=0, with that pretty projection
00:37:33 <oklopol> |4d| = |1d|
00:37:35 <elliott> second row is z=1
00:37:38 <elliott> third row is z=2
00:37:38 <elliott> etc.
00:37:46 <elliott> and you'll have the most fucked-up 3D projection ever :D
00:37:48 <elliott> now
00:37:53 <elliott> that forms a 2D image
00:37:59 <elliott> compress THAT with the same projection
00:38:01 <oklopol> nah we just need one dimension and a bijection with the 4d space
00:38:03 <elliott> and you've compressed 3D into 1D
00:38:08 <elliott> then do the same thing with rows again
00:38:09 <elliott> tada
00:38:09 <elliott> 4D
00:38:13 <elliott> in 2D
00:38:20 <oklopol> and arrows drawn on top to show where the successor in each direction is
00:38:40 <elliott> oklopol: mine is nicer
00:38:40 <elliott> because
00:38:49 <elliott> movement would be completely incomprehensible
00:38:56 <elliott> you'd probably just jump about the plane seemingly randomly
00:38:56 <Sgeo> if ( temp == '.' ) { fileName=fileName }
00:38:57 <oklopol> the array gets randomly resorted all the time in order to make sure the hamming distances correspond well to distances on screen
00:39:02 <elliott> and things would just sorta flicker all the time
00:39:03 <Sgeo> Bloody hell is wrong with this website?
00:39:32 <oklopol> erm
00:39:34 <olsner> #esoteric is not a "website"
00:39:42 <olsner> and it's supposed to work like this
00:40:10 <elliott> :D
00:40:24 <oklopol> elliott: so maybe 4d -> 2d + arrows + resorting
00:40:28 <oklopol> or actually
00:40:32 <elliott> oklopol: dude excuse me
00:40:34 <oklopol> maybe it just shows a neighborhood as a graph
00:40:36 <elliott> oklopol: mine involved one, pretty projection?
00:40:57 <oklopol> but that's a stupid projection because you have to stay near spawn all the time
00:41:02 <oklopol> or you won't see what you're doing
00:41:17 <elliott> oklopol: um it always scrolls to show you where you are
00:41:18 <elliott> oklopol: and
00:41:26 <elliott> oklopol: you can hold like shift while pressing a direction
00:41:27 <elliott> to "look around"
00:41:38 <elliott> i.e. center the view on the block to your [direction]
00:41:42 <elliott> and move around like that, without actually moving
00:41:44 <oklopol> it scrolls, yes, what i meant was the jumps get longer
00:41:47 <elliott> thus letting you GET TO GRIPS with the world
00:41:50 <elliott> oklopol: but of course
00:41:52 <elliott> isn't that a feature
00:42:02 <oklopol> it's a feature that means you have to stay near spawn
00:42:06 <j-invariant> I wish you coud put down flags that would be your (nearest) spawnpoint
00:42:08 <oklopol> i prefer just rendering a graph
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00:43:10 <oklopol> ofc it's always the same graph, but i won't tell the randomized graph drawer that
00:43:21 <olsner> tomorrow I shall stop being so afraid of iretq
00:44:12 <elliott> olsner: how far is your os done
00:44:28 <olsner> I'd say a few operations short of iretq
00:44:36 <elliott> olsner: no but srsly
00:45:10 <olsner> well srsly then - I was working on context switching then figured out it was a wee bit trickier than in theory
00:45:29 <olsner> (this was 3 weeks ago)
00:46:16 <olsner> I thought it should be doable without any of the fancy stuff that an iretq *can* do, not so sure anymore
00:47:14 <Vorpal> olsner, iretq?
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00:47:37 <olsner> interrupt return, quad version
00:47:55 <olsner> or iret with a 64-bit operand size
00:48:11 <Vorpal> olsner, is that the x86 family?
00:48:25 <j-invariant> did not do any work today, just played minecraft :|
00:48:32 <elliott> j-invariant: :D
00:48:50 <elliott> olsner: so what is your os actually going to be like
00:48:52 <elliott> what structure
00:49:00 <oerjan> <Sgeo> Why are you down, website? Why? Why must you do this to me? <-- hey get with the memes, it's supposed to be "WEBSITE Y U NO WORK?"
00:49:13 <olsner> elliott: mostly yet to be determined, microkernelish
00:49:24 <Sgeo> I finally got my hands on the bus's schedule
00:49:48 <olsner> and, you know, there won't actually be an *operating* system, it'll just be a kernel until at least 2020
00:50:11 <olsner> (probably...)
00:50:32 <Vorpal> !help
00:50:37 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:50:41 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
00:50:43 <fizzie> Speaking of ambition, today I came across http://nhi1.berlios.de/ "The line from the evolution in computer-science up to the computer hardware development speed and the internet global computer network lead to the possibility to create the first Non Human Intelligence until 2040. [...] The NHI1 project will create an open intelligence."
00:50:51 <Vorpal> !bf_txtgen Hello, World!
00:51:12 <fizzie> They have already solved natural language understanding: you just do "human language --> other language --> human language" and then make sure "other language" is "computer understand-able".
00:51:19 <Vorpal> err
00:51:32 <Vorpal> it's very slow today
00:51:38 <EgoBot> 126 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [707]
00:51:43 <Vorpal> oh come on
00:51:45 <Vorpal> !bf_txtgen Hello, World!
00:51:48 <EgoBot> 128 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-----.>++.+++++++..+++.>.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>-. [771]
00:51:55 <Vorpal> ..
00:51:59 <elliott> fizzie: Easy!
00:52:24 <elliott> olsner: hey 2020 is about when I expect @ to start taking shape...
00:52:40 <olsner> after fixing up context switching I think communicating processes will be next - then some kind of support for SMP systems, basically just whatever is needed for the kernel not to fuck itself immediately
00:52:47 <Vorpal> <fizzie> They have already solved natural language understanding: you just do "human language --> other language --> human language" and then make sure "other language" is "computer understand-able". <-- :D
00:53:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, what morons.
00:53:05 <quintopia> OHEY Notch should add a fourth dimension mode to MC and completely remove the market for Miegakure :P
00:53:25 <olsner> e.g. I'd like it to be pre-emptive as soon as possible, but I think there are tricky bits in making that work right
00:53:31 <elliott> fizzie:
00:53:36 <elliott> Why 'Friend Of Google' ?
00:53:36 <elliott> In the past days I had time to watch some tubes from Google tech-talk including the latest interviews from Eric Schmidt. I thing Google is the current technology PowerHouse and worth to serve as the first target of NHI1.
00:53:36 <elliott> Would that be Google as a verb or a noun? -> more noun as verb
00:53:51 <fizzie> elliott: They also have "theBrain", which is a key-value database, because, you know, that's all a brain is. Since "Data is the key point of every technology. Data have to be smart organized to be available with the speed and with the quality needed."
00:54:02 <elliott> fizzie: Tokyo Cabinet: it's intelligent!
00:54:21 <elliott> ~99% of all the data is located in the private (local) networks. (to check this, google (verb) for an average known (not famous) person from your own social environment and check the results available in the Internet. You will not find any data from the person own hard-drive, you will not find any data from the person employer, you will not find any private data from a Login-Required Internet zone like facebook... -> This all is good because priv
00:54:21 <elliott> ate is private and the opposite from public)
00:54:25 <fizzie> Yes, the Moggel thing was a bit curious too.
00:54:26 <elliott> Private is private and the opposite from public.
00:54:45 <elliott> The Project sounds a little bit like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development but it does, in fact, more. The goal is that the programmer does only write test-cases and the TDC is in duty to: write, organize and publish the software. Nobody, including the programmer itself, have to understand the software created.
00:54:45 <fizzie> elliott: Do note that "theCompiler" has some Clue-like tendencies. (Except it of course doesn't exist.)
00:54:48 <olsner> it irks me this full context switching thing though - there are a *lot* of registers to restore... cooperative multiprocessing would be nicer - not least because since you already have rcx and r11 clobbered for syscall so you can simply sysret back to it
00:54:50 <elliott> Hey, they invented Clue! >:)
00:54:52 <elliott> fizzie: haha
00:54:59 <olsner> again, cooperative sucks
00:55:21 <elliott> olsner: see if you compile a language like I do, then you can automatically insert yield instructions in the compiled code in places that the compiler deems to be optimal
00:55:24 <elliott> olsner: just saying
00:55:54 <olsner> well, basically you have to *guarantee* that all user processes call yield in a timely manner
00:55:55 <elliott> olsner: this allows the simplicity of a cooperative architecture with the responsiveness and reliability of a preemptive architecture, and with a Sufficiently Smart Compiler, even greater performance
00:56:03 <elliott> olsner: yes, and since all things in my OS go through the compiler
00:56:08 <elliott> it just has to insert yield instructions itself
00:56:12 <olsner> right, that's your OS
00:56:19 <elliott> olsner: which your OS should be, since my OS is the best?
00:56:35 <Vorpal> <olsner> it irks me this full context switching thing though - there are a *lot* of registers to restore... cooperative multiprocessing would be nicer - not least because since you already have rcx and r11 clobbered for syscall so you can simply sysret back to it <-- hm doesn't x86 have an instruction to dump it all or restore it all?
00:56:58 <elliott> fizzie: "responsible engineer to migrate the entire infrastructure of a life insurance company to the state of the art"
00:57:04 <elliott> fizzie: Dear god, this guy is actually given serious tasks to do.
00:57:08 <olsner> for one, I still expect an assembly-level interface, and no trust from the OS on user processes - this means cooperative is pretty much out of the question from the start
00:57:13 <elliott> http://openfacts2.berlios.de/wikien/index.php/User:Aotto1968#1_mar_2008
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00:57:42 <elliott> olsner: my OS gives no trust at all to "processes" (no such concept in mine), but yeah, no asm-level interface without the user demanding that e be allowed to run some arbitrary code :)
00:58:02 <Vorpal> olsner, will this be an RTOS?
00:58:06 <olsner> Vorpal: there is (waspushad
00:58:25 <Vorpal> olsner, er?
00:58:29 <olsner> *(was) pushad, but it doesn't restore ip and doesn't support 64-bit registers
00:58:41 <elliott> olsner: have I mentioned: @ is the greatest?
00:58:52 <olsner> elliott: repeatedly, probably
00:58:53 <Vorpal> olsner, wasn't there some task dump?
00:59:00 <elliott> olsner: Insufficiently? I am going to mention it?
00:59:00 <olsner> tasks? no such thing
00:59:03 <elliott> @ is the greatest?
00:59:39 <olsner> Vorpal: that is to say, hardware task-switching is generally recognized as suckage and is dropped in amd64
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01:00:10 <fizzie> elliott: Well, he does (to some extent) seem less overtly crazy than, say, Mentifex; and there are some reasonable (from a first glance, anyway) low-level twiddlery there, though of course nothing that'd have anything to do with AI.
01:00:43 <elliott> olsner: OS task-switching is generally recognised as suckage and is dropped in @</troll>
01:01:09 <olsner> elliott trolling. surprising in oh so many ways.
01:01:19 <elliott> olsner: i have a knife and your address
01:01:30 <Vorpal> olsner, well yes
01:01:35 <olsner> elliott: wtf, who gave you a knife? and my address?
01:01:42 <Vorpal> olsner, I still thought there was some dump-registers thingy
01:01:43 <elliott> olsner: that's what I want to know!
01:01:57 <Gregor> http://9gag.com/gag/68400/ <-- greatest troll ever
01:02:11 <olsner> elliott: also, do come visit and chop some vegetables with your knife, we could cook and have fun all night
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01:02:29 <elliott> Gregor: :D
01:02:41 <elliott> olsner: pervert, I'm going to call the police
01:03:05 <olsner> elliott: "a'ight" as they say "in da hood"
01:03:23 <elliott> olsner: I have trouble believing that you have any relation to or know anything about "da hood"
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01:04:14 <olsner> elliott: I have trouble believing in God, yet he's real
01:04:22 <elliott> olsner: he is?
01:04:50 <olsner> not sure, as previously mentioned I have trouble believing
01:05:07 <elliott> olsner: are you _trying_ to confuse me? :D
01:05:37 <olsner> am I? really?
01:05:42 <elliott> fizzie: yay mentifex http://cyborg.blogspot.com/2010/09/sep09mfpj.html
01:05:47 <elliott> olsner: knife, address
01:06:03 <olsner> elliott: vegetables, "fun all night"
01:06:14 <elliott> olsner: saved for future blackmail
01:06:18 <olsner> nice
01:06:25 <elliott> fizzie: CARS WHAT ARE CARS / GUNS WHAT ARE GUNS / TOOLS WHAT ARE TOOLS
01:06:28 <elliott> fizzie: Pure poetry.
01:08:51 <fizzie> Also obvious sentience.
01:09:50 <fizzie> THE GUNS MAKE THE CARS
01:10:14 <elliott> fizzie: It's referring to the military-industrial complex, dude.
01:14:48 <elliott> j-invariant: give haskell a better type system please
01:15:56 <j-invariant> elliott: HAHA
01:16:05 <j-invariant> elliott: haskell is broke, let it die
01:16:15 <elliott> j-invariant: i'm not about to start writing programs in coq
01:16:16 <elliott> :p
01:16:26 <j-invariant> Coq fails
01:16:26 <elliott> "There's a feature called "reification" (which the classically-educated will recognise as the Latin for "thingification"), which provides a reflection mechanism."
01:16:31 <elliott> j-invariant: oh yeah, epigram 2 programs
01:16:34 <elliott> hurf durf
01:16:38 <j-invariant> Epigram 2?
01:17:07 <elliott> j-invariant: well got another suggestion? :P
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01:18:36 <j-invariant> elliott: There is currently no programming language suitable for actually programming in
01:18:52 <elliott> j-invariant: i don't think that's true ... you can mostly sling it if you build your own little library of abstractions
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01:24:56 <elliott> @hoogle TypeQ -> Name
01:24:57 <lambdabot> Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b
01:24:57 <lambdabot> Control.OldException throwDyn :: Typeable exception => exception -> b
01:24:57 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax bindQ :: Q a -> (a -> Q b) -> Q b
01:25:03 <elliott> j-invariant: for instance I think Template Haskell is useful :-)
01:29:17 <j-invariant> I don't like it
01:29:24 <j-invariant> neither do you
01:31:53 <j-invariant> maybe I should just give on scheme and implement a new language in haskell
01:32:18 <Sgeo> Slate has macros, right?/
01:32:28 <Sgeo> [I think I'm putting Atomo down, for now]
01:32:41 <j-invariant> Sgeo: nobody is going to know what Slate is in 2 years
01:32:50 <j-invariant> (I hope)
01:33:28 <pikhq> java: malloc.c:3684: __libc_malloc: Assertion `!victim || ((((mchunkptr)((char*)(victim) - 2*(sizeof(size_t)))))->size & 0x2) || ar_ptr == (((((mchunkptr)((char*)(victim) - 2*(sizeof(size_t)))))->size & 0x4) ? ((heap_info *)((unsigned long)(((mchunkptr)((char*)(victim) - 2*(sizeof(size_t))))) & ~((2 * (4 * 1024 * 1024 * sizeof(long)))-1)))->ar_ptr : &main_arena)' failed.
01:33:32 <Sgeo> I do prefer Atomo's lambda syntax
01:33:33 <pikhq> YAY
01:33:43 <Sgeo> I think it's the best I've ever seen
01:33:54 <elliott> lambda syntax, that's what matters in a language
01:33:57 <elliott> pikhq: :-D
01:33:59 <elliott> pikhq: waht jvm?
01:34:01 <elliott> *what
01:34:13 <Sgeo> elliott, note that, despite that, I'm still leaning back towards Slate
01:34:25 <Sgeo> Also, lack of a lambda syntax can be.. ticky
01:34:27 <j-invariant> elliott: what should I call my caluculator thing?
01:34:33 <j-invariant> Computronium?
01:34:35 <elliott> j-invariant: you mean your dependent CAS?
01:34:39 <j-invariant> yeah
01:34:42 <Sgeo> Same with a crappy one (ahem ahem Python)
01:35:26 <elliott> j-invariant: Colony?
01:35:30 <elliott> j-invariant: justification: dependent -> http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=dependency
01:35:36 <elliott> -> colony for some reason
01:35:44 <elliott> j-invariant: also you could say it was like a colony of mathematical definitions??? i dunno :D
01:35:51 <j-invariant> hehe
01:35:52 <pikhq> elliott: HotSpot.
01:35:53 <elliott> i like short, simple names, they don't have to mean much imo
01:36:03 <elliott> pikhq: note that hotspot is -client only, -server is another VM
01:36:18 <elliott> j-invariant: "In computer science, coupling or dependency ..." maybe some pun on coupling
01:36:21 <pikhq> It's claiming to be HotSpot server.
01:36:29 <elliott> j-invariant: Relate, coupling -- relationship, and it like, finds mathematical relations?
01:36:38 <elliott> j-invariant: so Colony or Relate :P
01:38:23 <j-invariant> I can't program without dependent types
01:38:46 <pikhq> NOW IT KEEPS CRASHING.
01:38:51 <pikhq> IT MUST HATE MY MINE
01:38:54 <j-invariant> elliott: simple example: data T = Z | Q, obviously you just defiena function carrier Z = Integer ; carrier Q = Rational and everything is easy
01:39:22 <elliott> j-invariant: that's rather limited since you can't extent T
01:39:23 <j-invariant> elliott: (N.B. I can't do the usual data T x where Z :: T Integer ... because of other stuff)
01:39:28 <elliott> no?
01:39:33 <elliott> j-invariant: or wait, is this haskell?
01:39:36 <elliott> wait obviously not
01:39:45 <elliott> j-invariant: so how are you approaching this, are you implementing a dependent lang and doing it in that or?
01:39:47 <j-invariant> this is an explanation of why haskell is stupid
01:40:36 <j-invariant> (N.B. I am well aware that it's /me/ that's stupid, because I can't find any way to program this very simple)
01:40:55 <j-invariant> maybe I'll just have if x /= y then error "IMPOSSIBLE" else ... everywhere
01:40:56 <Sgeo> Has anyone yet made an easily reprogrammable music playing system in MC?
01:41:23 <elliott> no
01:41:26 <elliott> it's only been a day
01:41:44 <elliott> j-invariant: try template haskell :D
01:41:46 <elliott> j-invariant: alternatively
01:41:58 <elliott> j-invariant: one way to do more "complex" types that doesn't give compile-time errors but stops you having conditions everywhere
01:41:59 <elliott> is
01:42:07 <elliott> module Foo (DataType, mkDataType) where
01:42:15 <elliott> data DataType = Constructor ...
01:42:24 <elliott> mkDataType ... | ok = Constructor ...
01:42:29 <elliott> | otherwise = error "nooooo"
01:42:31 <elliott> for instance
01:42:35 <elliott> module Nat (Nat, mkNat) where
01:42:40 <elliott> newtype Nat = Nat Integer
01:42:44 <elliott> mkNat n | n >= 0 = Nat n
01:42:53 <elliott> | otherwise = error "Nat.mkNat: negative natural"
01:43:01 <elliott> then nothing can access the constructor
01:43:01 <elliott> oh
01:43:02 <elliott> you also need
01:43:08 <elliott> the relevant deriving instances
01:43:12 <elliott> so you can to toInteger and the like
01:43:13 <elliott> but yeha
01:43:14 <elliott> *yeah
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01:48:21 <j-invariant> So I think I can actually make a valid claim that "haskells type system is too limiting"
01:48:43 <j-invariant> (normally when people say that they are wrong)
01:49:05 <j-invariant> You can't embed a more expressive type system into it
01:49:51 <elliott> obviously :P
01:49:57 <j-invariant> so e.g. if you are implementing a language with a more expressive type system, your typechecking (written in haskell) cannot give you a well typed & total evaluator
01:49:58 <elliott> @hoogle a -> ExpQ
01:50:07 <j-invariant> (In fact haskell can not even express its own type system)
01:50:11 <elliott> j-invariant: the thing is that more expressive type systems have their own problems
01:50:25 <j-invariant> elliott: I don't know of any
01:50:35 <elliott> j-invariant: try and type infer Coq programs
01:50:53 <elliott> j-invariant: also you get very close very quickly to "oops, my language must be sub-TC for this to work"
01:51:00 <elliott> and also "oops, I need proofs everywhere to take advantage of this"
01:51:08 <elliott> and also "oops, everything is really fucking slow to typecheck now"
01:51:12 <elliott> @help
01:51:13 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
01:51:16 <elliott> @hoogle ExpQ
01:51:18 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH type ExpQ = Q Exp
01:51:18 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH.Lib type ExpQ = Q Exp
01:51:18 <lambdabot> Language.Haskell.TH.Quote dataToExpQ :: Data a => (b -> Maybe (Q Exp)) -> a -> Q Exp
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01:52:03 <j-invariant> maybe I am wrong! I hope so
01:52:08 <elliott> j-invariant: here's a little something i am working on for haskell
01:52:15 <j-invariant> I just had a stupid idea that might work
01:52:20 <j-invariant> type level GENSYM
01:52:29 <elliott> {-# LANGUAGE TemplateHaskell #-}
01:52:29 <elliott> import Foo
01:52:29 <elliott> validatedType "Nat" "Integer" [| \i -> i >= 0 |]
01:52:37 <elliott> j-invariant: then
01:52:44 <elliott> *Main> :browse
01:52:44 <elliott> newtype Nat = MkNat Integer
01:52:44 <elliott> mkNat :: Integer -> Nat
01:53:01 <elliott> *Main> mkNat 3
01:53:01 <elliott> MkNat 3
01:53:01 <elliott> *Main> mkNat (-1)
01:53:01 <elliott> MkNat *** Exception: bad!
01:53:29 <elliott> j-invariant: obviously I really want it to be like maybeMkNat returning Maybe Nat and then have functions on top of that etc
01:53:38 <elliott> *etc.
01:54:45 <elliott> j-invariant: obviously this is runtime-only
01:54:47 <elliott> but i think it's quite cool
01:55:53 <j-invariant> elliott: you could implement this without TH?
01:56:00 <elliott> j-invariant: how?
01:56:14 <elliott> j-invariant: well sure you could write out all the functions yourself ... but that's a huge pain
01:56:28 <elliott> the point is that this defines things like mkMaybeNat, isValidNat, etc.
01:59:01 <elliott> j-invariant: ?
02:00:34 <j-invariant> elliott: not trying to be mean but I don't find that very useful
02:00:45 <j-invariant> elliott: I mean just type out the names by hand :P
02:01:06 <elliott> j-invariant: ok compare:
02:01:29 <elliott> newtype Nat = MkNat Integer deriving (Eq, Show)
02:01:36 <elliott> mkMaybeNat :: Integer -> Maybe Nat
02:01:40 <elliott> mkMaybeNat x
02:01:45 <elliott> | x >= 0 = Just (MkNat x)
02:01:50 <elliott> | otherwise = Nothing
02:01:54 <elliott> mkNat :: Integer -> Nat
02:02:02 <elliott> mkNat = fromJust . mkMaybeNat
02:02:04 <elliott> j-invariant: with
02:02:11 <elliott> validatedType "Nat" "Integer" [| \i -> i >= 0 |]
02:02:49 <j-invariant> elliott: well maybe that is useful but it's not exactly a pearl
02:03:05 <elliott> j-invariant: i mentioned it because it was relevant to what you were saying
02:03:10 <elliott> j-invariant: wrt continually making checks for validity
02:03:30 <j-invariant> oh, how is it?
02:03:46 <j-invariant> nobody in #haskell wants to help me :(
02:04:28 <elliott> j-invariant: you didn't state your problem very clearly in #haskell :)
02:04:34 <elliott> j-invariant: also, the point is that instead of checking values are valid all the time
02:04:37 <elliott> you can just build this "gate"
02:04:48 <elliott> and since all Nats have to come from mkNat, since you don't export MkNat,
02:04:56 <elliott> you can be sure that every Nat obeys the condition you ste
02:04:57 <elliott> *set
02:05:09 <elliott> which is type safety, of a sort: all your internal code can assume and work upon these invariants on the type
02:05:16 <elliott> it's just that it's actually implemented at runtime
02:05:22 <elliott> but it should simplify your code a lot
02:07:13 <j-invariant> elliott: also someone mentioned "Turing complete" which was annoying
02:07:57 <j-invariant> lol don't acll him on it, that will just make things worse
02:08:10 <j-invariant> he just hadn't seen what I was trying to explain
02:08:21 <j-invariant> thuogh it was kind of a knee-jerk thing
02:08:33 <elliott> i like calling people on things
02:08:38 <j-invariant> X)
02:08:40 <elliott> j-invariant: but i'll answer your question
02:08:53 <elliott> j-invariant: stop trying to make everything perfectly type-safe, this isn't how haskell is meant to be done
02:08:59 -!- impomatic has left (?).
02:09:02 <j-invariant> elliott: :D
02:09:04 <elliott> verify that types are essentially write, but handle actual errors as runtime errors, for instance via Maybe
02:09:21 <elliott> Haskell isn't meant to let you solve all bugs with the type system, that's a design decision, probably a conscious one
02:09:26 <elliott> So don't try and make it do that for you
02:10:49 <j-invariant> I can actually make this work IF there is no type level computation
02:11:00 <j-invariant> (on the other hand, I like type level computation..)
02:11:04 <elliott> j-invariant: try and forget dependent types exist entirely
02:11:08 <elliott> j-invariant: write your program
02:11:15 <elliott> j-invariant: and /then/ see what you can do to it
02:11:16 <j-invariant> elliott: I tried that, In scheme
02:11:42 <elliott> j-invariant: do it in haskell
02:11:44 <elliott> don't forget types exist
02:11:48 <elliott> just dependent types :)
02:11:49 <j-invariant> Didn't work out, someone mentiond "use objects" and I gave up
02:12:00 <elliott> j-invariant: if you want an abstract syntax tree, make "data MyAST = ..."
02:12:04 <elliott> j-invariant: if you want an integer, use Integer
02:12:10 <elliott> j-invariant: avoid type parameters except for generic structures like lists and the like
02:12:12 <elliott> and use no GADTs
02:12:20 <elliott> j-invariant: I dare you, try and write your polynomial code like that
02:12:26 <elliott> j-invariant: this may not be the nicest way to use it
02:12:28 <elliott> but in Haskell
02:12:30 <j-invariant> have to use GADTs :>
02:12:33 <elliott> it's the only way you're gonna be able to code it
02:12:35 <elliott> j-invariant: nope, not allowed
02:12:40 <elliott> j-invariant: remove some type parameters until you don't have to any more
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02:23:06 <elliott> hi augur
02:23:21 <augur> O_O
02:23:25 <augur> hey elliott
02:23:30 <augur> sup boy
02:23:35 <elliott> why O_O
02:23:54 <elliott> ?
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02:24:24 <elliott> augur
02:24:50 <augur> cause!
02:25:00 <elliott> wat
02:25:37 <augur> :D
02:26:10 <elliott> aggry
02:26:21 <augur> eggry
02:32:43 <elliott> i need to figure out what program to write!
02:34:19 <augur> im writing one as we speak!
02:38:36 <j-invariant> #math is fucking stupid
02:38:49 <j-invariant> they're all doing pseudo-set theory
02:41:19 <elliott> j-invariant: quotes? :D
02:41:24 <elliott> Couldn't match expected type `Change t a'
02:41:25 <elliott> against inferred type `Change t1 a1'
02:41:29 <elliott> j-invariant: if i get this error it means i'm winning right?
02:41:31 <j-invariant> 02:42 < Polytope> {x | P} means that x is in the set if and only if P is true.
02:41:31 <j-invariant> 02:43 < j-invariant> no set theory allows definitions like that
02:41:37 <elliott> NB: `Change' is a type function, and may not be injective
02:41:46 <elliott> j-invariant: more, i want more quotes, pastebin! :P
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02:42:05 <j-invariant> 02:26 < j-invariant> Axmann: { X subset of Y | P(X) } defines a set
02:42:05 <j-invariant> 02:26 < j-invariant> Axmann: { X | P(X) } does not
02:43:29 <elliott> Type declaration in a class must be a kind signature or synonym default
02:43:31 <elliott> definitely winning
02:43:52 <elliott> j-invariant: wait a sec
02:43:57 <elliott> j-invariant: is this the polytope of http://www.bash.org/?4916
02:44:13 <j-invariant> dunno
02:44:18 <j-invariant> elliott: everyone's being an idoit
02:44:24 <elliott> j-invariant: i doubt it, he mentioned first-year, so first-year uni student?
02:44:26 <elliott> that quote is 90s vintage
02:44:38 <elliott> so he'd have to have said that when he was like
02:44:39 <elliott> 9
02:44:45 <j-invariant> elliott: they are doing { x | P(x) } rather than { x in X | P(x) }
02:44:56 <j-invariant> elliott: apparently it's easier?
02:45:00 <elliott> j-invariant: P(x) = x in X /\ Q(x)
02:45:03 <elliott> Problem? :trollface:
02:45:27 <j-invariant> P(x) = x is not in x, problem Frege?
02:45:41 <elliott> P(x) = not P(x), problem Aristotle?
02:45:53 <j-invariant> you can't do that!
02:45:53 <elliott> why did i say aristotle
02:46:00 <elliott> j-invariant: isn't #math basically a cesspool anyway
02:46:01 <j-invariant> lol
02:46:07 <elliott> wow holy shit look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
02:46:09 <j-invariant> elliott: yeah seems that way, it's frustrating
02:46:09 <elliott> ugliest fucking logo ever
02:46:14 <elliott> lol at the mirroring in the box
02:46:15 <elliott> jesus christ
02:46:22 <elliott> oh my god look at the featured section what have they done
02:46:28 <elliott> Today's featured picture
02:46:29 <elliott>
02:46:29 <elliott> Jimmy Wales is the co-founder of the online encyclopedia Wikipedia, along with Larry Sanger and others. Wikipedia succeeded an earlier attempt at an encyclopedia called Nupedia, but Nupedia grew slowly because of its onerous submission format, which required articles to be peer reviewed. Sanger was then introduced to the concept of a wiki, and thus Wikipedia was born. Wales continues to serve the Board of Trustees of the non-profit Wikimedia Foun
02:46:29 <elliott> dation, and he also co-founded Wikia, a for-profit wiki hosting site.
02:46:31 <elliott> why is that
02:46:32 <elliott> what is this
02:46:34 <elliott> is this a joke
02:46:48 <j-invariant> todays featured picture http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Jimmy_Wales_Fundraiser_Appeal_edit.jpg
02:46:52 <j-invariant> oh LOL you're on it too
02:47:01 <elliott> * Cannot join #not-not-math (Channel is invite only).
02:47:14 <elliott> it should redirect to #math
02:47:16 <elliott> to annoy intuitionists
02:47:27 <j-invariant> lol
02:48:11 <elliott> oh come on haskell
02:48:14 <elliott> don't be a dumbfuck
02:49:10 <elliott> Couldn't match expected type `Change t2 a2'
02:49:10 <elliott> against inferred type `FileChange'
02:49:10 <elliott> NB: `Change' is a type function, and may not be injective
02:49:15 <elliott> steadily heading towards failure
02:49:36 <elliott> j-invariant: i'm going to troll them
02:49:38 <elliott> badly
02:49:41 <elliott> for my own amusement
02:49:44 <pikhq> God dammit.
02:49:54 <pikhq> Minecraft crashed. I lost the crate I put my stuff in.
02:50:02 <j-invariant> this will not end well
02:50:03 <elliott> pikhq: :(
02:50:07 <j-invariant> pikhq: that happened to me once
02:50:14 <j-invariant> I submitted a report
02:50:21 <elliott> j-invariant: that just submits to apple
02:50:22 <elliott> lol
02:50:24 <Vorpal> j-invariant, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjsWHtkd7Yk
02:50:27 <elliott> oh wait
02:50:29 <elliott> you're not on os x
02:50:30 <j-invariant> elliott: XD
02:50:35 <j-invariant> I emailed it by hand
02:50:38 <elliott> pikhq: internalise this phrase: Notch quality engineering.
02:50:46 <elliott> pikhq: Notch, you see, is possibly the worst programer of our time.
02:51:04 <Vorpal> <pikhq> Minecraft crashed. I lost the crate I put my stuff in. <-- since when did you start playing minecraft? :D
02:51:13 <pikhq> Today!
02:51:18 <elliott> pikhq: He got a good idea, somehow managed to develop it to near its current state (recent improvements have been by Jeb, who is competent), and then went into an ETERNAL LOOP OF FAIL.
02:51:23 <elliott> pikhq: For instance. A quote.
02:51:37 <elliott> pikhq: [[Oh, and I’ve finally committed the Music Blocks to the repository.
02:51:37 <elliott> (Oh, wait, no, I didn’t.. Doing so broke git, so we’re changing to svn because git is horrible and evil)]]
02:51:57 <elliott> pikhq: When Beta first came out, in multiplayer, when you died, items would *duplicate*.
02:52:03 <elliott> You would get two of everything you own lying around.
02:52:11 <elliott> But only half of them could be picked up.
02:52:11 <Vorpal> j-invariant, see that link!
02:52:14 <j-invariant> elliott: what the hell just happened lol
02:52:21 <elliott> pikhq: Additionally, leaf decay meant that single-player games ran at about 5 fps.
02:52:23 <j-invariant> Vorpal: oops how did I miss that
02:52:35 <elliott> pikhq: We are almost entirely certain that Notch does not even try and run the game before pushing updates.
02:52:54 <j-invariant> Vorpal: WOW!!! Meta :D
02:53:41 <pikhq> Ah well.
02:53:52 <pikhq> All I lost was wood and cobblestone.
02:54:02 <Vorpal> j-invariant, indeed. There was harry potter theme on youtube too. Played manually
02:54:11 <Vorpal> j-invariant, by walking sideways and hitting timed blocks
02:54:15 <pikhq> I
02:54:18 <elliott> pikhq: what's your base
02:54:19 <j-invariant> Vorpal: this one is great though
02:54:22 <pikhq> 've been hollowing out a mountain.
02:54:22 <elliott> as in what type
02:54:25 <elliott> ah
02:54:40 <pikhq> And mining the hell out of it.
02:54:52 <pikhq> I'm playing on peaceful, though.
02:55:13 <elliott> pikhq: laaame
02:55:16 <j-invariant> wtf
02:55:19 <Vorpal> j-invariant, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f1ofoKylN4
02:55:19 <elliott> pikhq: real men play on hard
02:55:20 <elliott> also real women
02:55:21 <elliott> and fake men
02:55:23 <j-invariant> there was a skeleton that killed me IN BROAD DAYLIGHT
02:55:24 <elliott> but not fake women
02:55:28 <elliott> j-invariant: xD
02:55:32 <elliott> j-invariant: it just didn't want to burn
02:55:37 <elliott> j-invariant: if trees shelter them
02:55:40 <elliott> they can avoid burning
02:55:42 <Vorpal> j-invariant, rather expertly played I have to say considering the limits of minecraft. I played that melody on piano
02:55:42 <elliott> but not if they step out
02:56:21 <j-invariant> Vorpal: have you seen the CPU?
02:56:29 <elliott> yes, he has.
02:56:50 <elliott> aaaaargh fuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyou FUCK GHC
02:56:53 <Vorpal> j-invariant, yes I have even downloaded and played with it locally
02:57:02 <elliott> YOU ARE NOT DOING THINGS I WANT YOU TO DO, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THESE THINGS ARE UNREASONABLE
02:57:08 <elliott> I DISLIKE THIS FACET OF YOU
02:57:50 <j-invariant> Vorpal: oh really! I tried that.. didn't work for me
02:58:15 <j-invariant> Vorpal: I thnink the savegame format has been changed recently
02:58:21 <Vorpal> j-invariant, no it hasn't
02:58:22 <j-invariant> folderized
02:58:24 <j-invariant> Vorpal: hm
02:58:27 <Vorpal> j-invariant, it likely will though
02:58:29 <elliott> it changed a looong time ago
02:58:30 <j-invariant> Vorpal: Then I am an idiot
02:58:32 <Vorpal> j-invariant, did you unpack the zip?
02:58:36 <j-invariant> Vorpal: the RAR
02:58:39 <Vorpal> oh right
02:58:40 <Vorpal> the rar
02:58:41 <Vorpal> whatever
02:58:57 <j-invariant> Vorpal: I'm being precise because the mistake is probably a very small detail
02:59:13 <Vorpal> j-invariant, oh right. unrar?
02:59:19 <j-invariant> yeah
02:59:25 <Vorpal> j-invariant, you need to tell it to unpack with folder structure preserved
02:59:30 <Vorpal> j-invariant, rather than unpack flat
02:59:33 <Vorpal> yes this is stupid
02:59:41 <Vorpal> check docs. iirc it is x instead of e
02:59:41 <j-invariant> I blame unrar :P
02:59:43 <j-invariant> not myself
02:59:44 <Vorpal> or something like that
02:59:48 <Vorpal> j-invariant, same
03:00:35 <elliott> holy shit, it works
03:01:03 <elliott> well, sorta...
03:01:59 <Vorpal> j-invariant, if you ever played zelda oot you will find this awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUSF3IlFqY
03:02:41 <j-invariant> Vorpal: one question.. how do you find all these videos so quickly?
03:02:52 <Vorpal> j-invariant, by searching youtube!
03:02:52 <elliott> reddit.com/r/minecraft
03:02:56 <Vorpal> elliott, no
03:03:02 <Vorpal> some I found there
03:03:05 <Vorpal> but not most
03:03:06 <j-invariant> I want to make these boxes
03:03:07 <elliott> you will notice it taking up 90% of your reddit time soon
03:03:21 <Vorpal> j-invariant, can you tell him not for all cases
03:03:36 <elliott> Meanwhile, nine year old girls play Minecraft: http://i.imgur.com/KPI02.jpg
03:03:51 <elliott> I like how the idea of a minecart floating in the void was scrapped.
03:04:04 <j-invariant> elliott:
03:04:05 <j-invariant> 03:03 < Axmann> so if {x | x is an integer above zero}, then |8|?
03:04:05 <j-invariant> 03:03 < Axmann> that 8=infinity
03:04:10 <j-invariant> elliott: Misson accomplished
03:04:22 <elliott> j-invariant: wait what xD
03:04:54 <elliott> <elliott> 8*2i = oo
03:04:58 <elliott> j-invariant: {troll}
03:05:28 <j-invariant> Vorpal: Cool! It's working
03:07:46 <Vorpal> j-invariant, happy to be of service
03:08:00 <pikhq> # C [r600_dri.so+0x55d0c] radeonEmitVec4+0x4c
03:08:02 <pikhq> ARGH
03:08:10 <pikhq> It's hitting a bug in my driver.
03:08:20 <elliott> pikhq: :-D
03:08:51 <elliott> j-invariant: what, they're actually listening to me ...
03:09:03 <elliott> j-invariant: assure me that #math is never worthwhile, because I'm on the road to a ban
03:09:41 <j-invariant> 02:45 < j-invariant> I thought this was #math, not #interpretive-dance
03:10:44 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:11:45 <j-invariant> 3:14 maybe I should go to bed
03:11:49 <Vorpal> pikhq, ouch
03:12:07 <Vorpal> pikhq, should have gotten yourself nvidia or intel :P
03:12:43 <Vorpal> j-invariant, 04:15: I agree
03:12:46 <elliott> j-invariant: i'm not going to bed so you shouldn't either, that's like
03:12:48 <elliott> a fundamental law of nature
03:12:48 <Vorpal> night →
03:12:59 <j-invariant> elliott: Some people have to get up in the morning
03:13:17 <j-invariant> (I'm not one of them)
03:13:19 <elliott> j-invariant: what a strange concept
03:13:40 <elliott> j-invariant: anyone who has to get up in the morning on saturday probably has a terrible life i figure, so being sleep-deprived shouldn't make things significantly worse
03:13:42 <elliott> ergo what i said stands
03:14:38 <j-invariant> LOL
03:14:39 <elliott> pikhq: I suggest switching to another driver, Minecraft takes precedence over all
03:14:40 <j-invariant> so harsh
03:14:50 <elliott> pikhq: I would redesign @ to be able to support a JVM if it couldn't, just so it could run Minecraft
03:17:53 * pikhq just won Minecraft.
03:18:13 <pikhq> Build a tiny room from wood planks. VICTORY SHALL BE YOURS.
03:18:41 <copumpkin> :O
03:19:16 <Gregor> pikhq: ...?
03:19:29 <augur> copumpkin! O_O
03:19:34 <augur> YOU BASTARD
03:19:36 <pikhq> Mobs can't get you. Voila, you are immortal.
03:19:36 <copumpkin> ?
03:19:47 <augur> sup dude
03:19:54 <copumpkin> yo yo
03:19:54 <augur> since when do you come here
03:20:02 <copumpkin> augur: I'm just stalking you
03:20:06 <augur> :>
03:20:09 <augur> <3
03:20:23 <copumpkin> nah, I intend to murder you
03:20:28 <copumpkin> but to do so I must first learn your habits
03:20:32 <augur> D:
03:20:38 <elliott> pikhq: um i just mentioned how to win
03:20:39 <elliott> also months ago
03:20:39 <augur> well
03:20:45 <augur> elliott can explain my habits to you
03:20:50 <elliott> pikhq: you can do it with only taking two blocks
03:21:00 <copumpkin> MURTHER!
03:21:05 <elliott> pikhq: in fact, you can win in seconds
03:21:06 <elliott> pikhq: let me tell you how
03:21:09 <elliott> pikhq: find a dirt hill
03:21:14 <elliott> pikhq: take two blocks vertically from the ground
03:21:15 <elliott> pikhq: step inside
03:21:16 <elliott> pikhq: turn around
03:21:22 <elliott> pikhq: place them in front of you facing outside
03:21:25 <elliott> congratulations, you win Minecraft!
03:21:34 <copumpkin> what are the criteria for winning?
03:21:42 <elliott> copumpkin: being safe forever, obviously
03:21:49 <elliott> copumpkin: if there's nothing more to fight, obviously you win the game
03:21:51 <elliott> that's how games work
03:21:57 <elliott> after you do the final boss, that's it, no more game, you win
03:22:05 <elliott> in this case, the final boss is two dirt blocks
03:23:25 -!- nooga has joined.
03:24:24 <elliott> pikhq: still playing peaceful like a wimp?
03:24:46 <pikhq> elliott: I won on hard!
03:24:55 <elliott> pikhq: Hard isn't actually very hard vs. normal
03:24:56 <copumpkin> mmmm weetabix
03:25:06 <elliott> pikhq: Really, if you have a house, you're fine; and you can even go around at night with a sword and armour.
03:25:19 <Sgeo> elliott, even a wooden sword?
03:25:20 <elliott> Just makes mining more interesting :P
03:25:27 <Sgeo> And wooden armor?
03:25:28 <elliott> Sgeo: Sure, but why would you make wooden anything?
03:25:31 <pikhq> elliott: BUT I MUST REMOVE ALL THE STONE FROM INSIDE THIS MOUNTAIN
03:25:32 <elliott> There is no wooden armour.
03:25:36 <elliott> pikhq: You can do that on hard.
03:25:48 <Sgeo> elliott, because you haven't started mining yet
03:25:50 <copumpkin> pikhq: to make the hall of the mountain king
03:25:59 <elliott> Sgeo: You make one pickaxe, take three stone, and you have a stone pickaxe.
03:26:04 <elliott> Congratulations, you never need to use wood tools ever again.
03:26:31 <Sgeo> elliott, unless you're careless and run out of stone pickaxe usage and stones
03:26:37 <elliott> Sgeo: That is impossible.
03:26:38 <pikhq> ... *Run out of stones*?
03:26:47 <elliott> A stone pickaxe lasts for enough time to mine hundreds and hundreds of cobbles.
03:27:04 <elliott> If you ever go "oops, out of cobbles, have to make a wood pickaxe", congratulations -- you are the first person to actually *lose* Minecraft.
03:27:54 <copumpkin> comex: so are you a minecraft-head too or are you just here for the esoteric languages nobody ever speaks about?
03:28:30 <Sgeo> Anyone want to shoot comex with an alarm clock?
03:28:41 <elliott> copumpkin: he's just in here because of ircnomic
03:28:44 <elliott> ...to some approximation
03:29:01 <elliott> i don't actually know if comex does esolangs, but he never really talks, so, we just kinda accept him
03:29:03 <elliott> he's cool
03:29:07 <Sgeo> elliott, surely you mean Canada
03:29:23 <elliott> Eff you!
03:29:25 <copumpkin> elliott: he used to use an uncommon language, at least
03:29:26 <pikhq> He's a pretty cool guy though. He doesn't afraid of anything!
03:29:31 <copumpkin> not sure I'd call it esoteric :P
03:29:32 <elliott> copumpkin: What, Python?
03:29:36 <copumpkin> nah, nimrod
03:29:45 <elliott> Ne'r heard of it.
03:29:52 <elliott> Oh, that thing.
03:30:01 <elliott> That terrible-looking thing.
03:30:24 <elliott> copumpkin: All comex's code that I've seen has been Python at least
03:30:27 <elliott> Bayes was Python.
03:30:55 <copumpkin> he's occasionally shown a tiny bit of interest in haskell
03:31:00 <copumpkin> which is pretty esoteric
03:31:18 * copumpkin wonders if talking about comex for long enough will un-afk him
03:31:46 <elliott> yeah i think he's written...one haskell program?
03:31:52 <copumpkin> which one?
03:32:30 <elliott> xD
03:33:03 <copumpkin> damn Boston public transport
03:33:11 <copumpkin> I want to get to the airport tomorrow morning
03:33:14 <copumpkin> for a flight at 6:50
03:33:27 <copumpkin> and the bus to get to the airport starts up at 5:50
03:33:27 <pikhq> copumpkin: Yeeaaah, good luck with that.
03:33:29 <elliott> look at that
03:33:34 <elliott> a person who needs to be up on Saturday
03:33:39 <elliott> j-invariant: ha ha, let's laugh at him
03:33:48 <j-invariant> hehe
03:33:50 <copumpkin> elliott: hey, I get to go to warm places, at least :)
03:33:54 <copumpkin> it's fucking cold here
03:33:54 <Sgeo> I'm planning on waking up early on Saturday
03:34:03 <Sgeo> Assuming she contacts me tonight
03:34:06 <j-invariant> it sucks how everyone who asks a programming question seems to get an answer, except nobody knows how to solve my thing
03:34:06 <elliott> copumpkin: i want to live in iceland, i can't really relate
03:34:15 <elliott> j-invariant: your question is wrong :D
03:34:21 <pikhq> copumpkin: Boston's public transport is positively nice for "sane" hours. If you happen to need to be along the right routes.
03:34:28 <elliott> in the context of haskell
03:34:37 <pikhq> copumpkin: 6:50 AM on Saturday? Weep!
03:34:38 <copumpkin> pikhq: yeah, except I live and work on the green line
03:34:42 <Sgeo> What's j-invariant's question?
03:34:46 <pikhq> copumpkin: Ouch.
03:34:52 <copumpkin> elliott: a colleague of mine is from iceland!
03:34:57 <copumpkin> and I'm listening to icelandic music right now
03:34:59 <copumpkin> zomg
03:35:01 <elliott> copumpkin: wait wait wait let me guess their name
03:35:04 <elliott> copumpkin: either
03:35:04 <j-invariant> Sgeo: how do I do such and such
03:35:06 <elliott> copumpkin: X Yson
03:35:07 <elliott> copumpkin: or
03:35:09 <pikhq> Sofuckingslow.
03:35:13 <elliott> copumpkin: X Ydottir
03:35:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:35:16 <copumpkin> lol
03:35:18 <copumpkin> none of that
03:35:35 <elliott> *dóttir
03:35:39 <copumpkin> no
03:35:42 <elliott> copumpkin: er are you sure, isn't that how icelandic names are formed :P
03:35:46 <copumpkin> lol
03:35:50 <copumpkin> there's a grammar for them?
03:35:57 * copumpkin builds an enumerator
03:36:06 <copumpkin> now, I have a tough question
03:36:09 <copumpkin> maybe you guys can help me
03:36:24 <pikhq> Mayhaps.
03:36:26 <copumpkin> I just ate 3 (THREE) weetabix. Should I eat more?
03:36:29 <elliott> copumpkin: well er,
03:36:42 <elliott> copumpkin: it's [Firstname] [Parentfirstname][son|dóttir]
03:36:48 <elliott> what's their name, I'd be very surprised if it didn't fit that?
03:36:54 <copumpkin> son is indeed the suffix
03:37:21 <elliott> copumpkin: then "X Yson" is correct, as i said
03:37:34 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_name
03:37:44 <copumpkin> oh, I didn't realize your uppercase was a free variable
03:38:06 <elliott> heh
03:38:09 <elliott> hi, my name is ecks whyson
03:38:20 <copumpkin> lol
03:38:31 <pikhq> elliott: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like trying to guess if the sun's going to come up tomorrow.
03:38:42 <elliott> pikhq: wut
03:38:50 <copumpkin> Dagur Bergþóruson Eggertsson
03:38:59 <elliott> that's some name
03:39:06 <copumpkin> yep
03:39:06 <pikhq> elliott: Guessing that -son or -dóttir is the suffix for a Icelandic name.
03:39:13 <elliott> copumpkin: congratulations, you know the mayor of reykjavik
03:39:20 <elliott> *reykjavík
03:39:21 <copumpkin> I'm good
03:39:28 <elliott> erm ex-mayor
03:39:37 <copumpkin> so, about the important question
03:39:43 <copumpkin> does anyone have any thoughts?
03:40:04 <elliott> what question
03:40:19 <copumpkin> THE FUCKING WEETABIX
03:40:22 <elliott> oh
03:40:25 <elliott> eat more weetabix
03:40:29 <elliott> with maple syrup
03:40:31 <copumpkin> really?
03:40:32 <copumpkin> I ate three
03:40:35 <elliott> (everything should be combined with maple syrup)
03:40:35 <pikhq> copumpkin will ate 40 weetabix. That's as many as four tens! And that's terrible.
03:40:39 <elliott> (also bacon)
03:40:39 <copumpkin> I haven't had them with maple syrup
03:40:43 <elliott> and chocolate
03:40:45 <elliott> simultaneously
03:41:00 <elliott> bacon with melted chocolate dripped in maple syrup is probably close to being liquid happiness-inflictor
03:41:14 <elliott> well apart from not being liquid
03:41:15 <elliott> that's one failing
03:41:19 <pikhq> elliott: Surprisingly, bacon and chocolate do in fact go together very well.
03:41:25 <elliott> pikhq: i have this bacon chocolate here
03:41:26 <elliott> it's amazing
03:41:29 <elliott> fucking amazing
03:41:32 <elliott> restored my faith in god
03:41:33 <copumpkin> you know what also goes with bacon?
03:41:35 <pikhq> Unless you're Jewish. In which case you're fucked.
03:41:37 <elliott> more bacon?
03:41:37 <copumpkin> balsamic vinegar
03:41:42 <elliott> no, you're wrong, the answer is more bacon
03:41:50 <copumpkin> strangely enough
03:41:50 <copumpkin> well, that too
03:41:52 <pikhq> Baconic vinegar?
03:41:57 <elliott> copumpkin: vinegar + maple syrup!!!
03:42:00 <elliott> THE BEST WORST THING EVER
03:42:05 <copumpkin> guido thinks it's unbaconic
03:42:11 <elliott> heh
03:42:23 <comex> elliott: does the Type 1 font program language count as esoteric?
03:42:27 <comex> I need it for this exploit.
03:42:32 <comex> (ssshhh)
03:42:35 <copumpkin> comex: no, sry
03:42:44 <comex> it's a pretty good example of a turing tarpit
03:42:45 <comex> :]
03:42:47 <elliott> comex: I totally won't tell anyone what it is if you say it in this publicly-logged channel.
03:42:54 * copumpkin tweets it
03:43:01 <elliott> copumpkin won't tweet it either
03:43:03 <elliott> so go ahead
03:43:09 <copumpkin> why not? :(
03:43:13 <copumpkin> I want some fame too
03:43:22 <elliott> because it's secret! you can tweet it in a few minutes.
03:43:31 * copumpkin sets a countdown timer
03:43:37 * copumpkin goes and fetches more weetabix
03:43:39 <comex> x.x
03:43:55 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:43:59 <comex> I'm not even kidding, though; it feels like writing in an esolang.
03:44:07 -!- quintopia has joined.
03:44:13 <elliott> comex: EXCUSE ME SORRY TELL US WHAT THE EXPLOIT IS OR GET BANNED
03:44:22 <elliott> famous people are allowed in here only if they give us inside scoops
03:44:34 <elliott> or money
03:44:53 <Sgeo> I don't think Notch would be allowed here even if he gave us both
03:45:16 <elliott> Maybe if he gave us a LOT of money.
03:45:38 <copumpkin> why wouldn't he?
03:45:44 <elliott> copumpkin: because he can't fucking code
03:45:52 <copumpkin> oh?
03:45:53 <elliott> and he has the piece of shit autoupdate to more broken versions constantly without warning
03:46:06 <elliott> and he said git is horrible and evil and switched to svn because he fucked something up
03:46:10 <elliott> and and and he "frowns upon" modders and
03:46:12 <copumpkin> lol
03:46:14 <elliott> he is the most hateful person
03:46:27 <copumpkin> yeah but he's rich
03:46:31 <elliott> yes
03:46:32 <copumpkin> and in my land, that means he's good
03:46:38 <elliott> and he can't even fucking hire developers to code minecraft properly
03:46:47 <elliott> he hired devs ... to code on his supersekrit new project
03:46:55 <elliott> rather than, you know, the game people actually fucking play
03:47:24 <Sgeo> Didn''t a non-Notch person work on the new update?
03:47:26 <copumpkin> in my land, that just means he's going to try to get richer
03:47:28 <elliott> yes
03:47:29 <elliott> Jeb
03:47:30 <copumpkin> which means he's even gooder
03:47:35 <elliott> copumpkin: your land is strange
03:47:40 <elliott> Sgeo: the only non-Notch coder working on MC
03:47:43 <elliott> and also seemingly competent
03:48:07 <elliott> he basically did the whole new update
03:48:08 <elliott> which was good
03:48:12 <Sgeo> Would I be an improvement or a ... opposite
03:48:12 <copumpkin> success = good and money = success
03:48:14 <Sgeo> From Notch
03:48:15 <elliott> more evidence that notch is a oajgoidfjg
03:48:18 <copumpkin> if you are poor, you are a bad person
03:48:20 <elliott> Sgeo: um i don't even want to think about that
03:48:25 <elliott> copumpkin: good to know!
03:48:39 <elliott> copumpkin: i'm just going to assume you're joking even though this is the internet
03:49:03 <copumpkin> I'm going to assume that you assume that because you're poor
03:49:09 <copumpkin> cause good people wouldn't assume that
03:49:18 <elliott> i'm actually gandhi
03:49:26 <Sgeo> I'm not even going to bother making the obvious Star Trek comparision
03:49:27 <copumpkin> yeah, the worst person in history
03:49:41 <elliott> Sgeo: what.
03:49:47 <elliott> no star trek comparison is ever obvious
03:50:01 <copumpkin> now that I have consumed more weetabix
03:50:02 <Sgeo> elliott: what.
03:50:09 <copumpkin> and am relatively replete
03:50:12 <elliott> copumpkin: eat more
03:50:14 <elliott> bitch
03:50:16 <Sgeo> This one is.
03:50:16 <copumpkin> I have another profound question
03:50:22 <elliott> okay
03:50:23 <elliott> shoot
03:50:32 <copumpkin> should I sleep a bit and then wake up to go to the airport
03:50:42 <copumpkin> or just stay up as late as I normally do, and not sleep at all
03:50:46 <elliott> copumpkin: latter
03:50:47 <elliott> way more fun
03:50:50 <copumpkin> meh
03:50:52 * Sgeo decides that he's the wrong person to answer the question
03:50:53 <elliott> you will RULE the plane
03:50:54 <comex> look
03:50:55 <elliott> copumpkin: ALSOALSO
03:50:58 <comex> Minecraft is a Java applet
03:50:58 <copumpkin> but then I'll want to sleep tomorrow
03:51:01 <elliott> copumpkin: you can eat more weetabix
03:51:03 <comex> you don't need to say anything else
03:51:04 <elliott> in the meantime
03:51:05 <copumpkin> and I only have a couple of days out there
03:51:08 <elliott> comex: it's not an applet
03:51:08 <elliott> well it is
03:51:11 <elliott> but nobody uses the applet...
03:51:14 <elliott> you can't mod it or anything
03:51:16 <copumpkin> so it seems like a waste to fly away and sleep there
03:51:16 <elliott> or even use texture packs
03:51:20 <elliott> or adjust the resolution
03:51:23 <elliott> why would anyone even use the applet
03:51:33 <elliott> copumpkin: sleep on the plane
03:51:39 <elliott> copumpkin: problem solved
03:51:39 <copumpkin> it's only three hours or so
03:51:47 <elliott> copumpkin: good enough!
03:51:52 <comex> s/ applet//
03:51:55 <comex> my statement is still valid
03:51:59 <copumpkin> I need 18 hours of beauty sleep
03:52:00 <elliott> comex: Minecraft is A java?!?!?!
03:52:03 <copumpkin> (the beauty is somewhat lacking)
03:52:05 <Sgeo> You don't have to make random transfers on the plai1
03:52:06 <comex> :'
03:52:07 <elliott> copumpkin: don't sleep ever
03:52:23 <elliott> copumpkin: more fucking weetabix
03:52:23 <elliott> now
03:52:24 <elliott> god damn
03:52:26 <Sgeo> Plail. PLAIL.
03:52:32 <elliott> copumpkin: WEETABIX
03:52:36 * copumpkin forcefeeds elliott WEETABIX
03:52:37 <Sgeo> me finds this hilarious
03:52:40 <elliott> no
03:52:43 <elliott> forcefeed YOURSELF
03:53:12 <Sgeo> elliott `>> [ clone. ]
03:53:13 <elliott> copumpkin: EAT SOME FUCKING WEETABIX FUCKFACE
03:53:20 * copumpkin hides
03:53:29 <Sgeo> Wait.
03:53:36 <Sgeo> Why would I ever, ever do that
03:53:43 <Sgeo> Give elliott even 1 clone-child
03:53:56 -!- elliott has set topic: MOTHERFUCKING WEETABIX | WEETABIX: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | WEETABIX WITH MOTHERFUCKING MERCURY IN IT: http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ | PAGES ABOUT WEETABIX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | WEETABIX FUCKING WEETABIX.
03:54:02 <Sgeo> ....that sounded far, far wronger than I meant
03:54:07 -!- elliott has set topic: MOTHERFUCKING WEETABIX | WEETABIX: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | WEETABIX WITH MOTHERFUCKING MERCURY IN IT: http://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/ | PAGES ABOUT WEETABIX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | WEETABIX, FUCKING WEETABIX.
03:54:14 <elliott> to preempt sgeo
03:54:17 <elliott> copumpkin: WEETABIX OR BUST
03:54:28 <Sgeo> wha?
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03:55:47 <copumpkin> :o
03:56:07 <cheater00> weetafux
03:56:08 <copumpkin> okay you convinced me
03:56:11 <elliott> copumpkin: WEETABIX OR WEETABIX
03:56:11 <elliott> YAY
03:56:12 <elliott> MORE WEETABIX
03:56:14 <cheater00> i never understood why people ate that
03:56:16 <copumpkin> I'll eat more weetabix
03:56:21 <copumpkin> cheater00: they're yummy
03:56:23 <elliott> :)))))
03:56:35 <cheater00> it's like a piece of wasa bread
03:56:37 <cheater00> in your milk
03:56:46 <cheater00> soaked
03:56:49 <cheater00> and soggy
03:56:54 <elliott> copumpkin: i have a
03:56:54 <copumpkin> yumy
03:56:55 <cheater00> i could never get it, maybe i'm using them wrong
03:56:55 <elliott> serving suggestion
03:56:58 <elliott> for your weetabix
03:57:00 <elliott> serve it with more weetabix
03:57:03 <copumpkin> I have no bacon
03:57:15 <cheater00> i just put them in the milk and it gets soggy and crappy and boring
03:57:21 <cheater00> the weetabix thing that is
03:58:15 <elliott> copumpkin
03:58:18 <elliott> make my function prettier
03:58:20 <elliott> /more efficient
03:58:30 <elliott> ordering cs =
03:58:30 <elliott> let (g,v2n,n2v) =
03:58:30 <elliott> Graph.graphFromEdges . Set.toList . Set.map (\c -> (c, c, deps c)) $ cs
03:58:30 <elliott> in reverse . map (\v -> case v2n v of (c,_,_) -> c) . Graph.topSort $ g
03:58:36 <elliott> right now it relies on changes themselves being Ord
03:58:40 <elliott> since they're used as the key
03:58:42 <elliott> which is bleh :(
03:59:11 <copumpkin> graphs suck
03:59:13 <Sgeo> It's sad that the only language or platform that has solved the module issue to my satisfaction thus far is JAVA
03:59:17 <Sgeo> Fucking JAVA
03:59:17 <copumpkin> I'm going to make them suck less in haskell someday
03:59:23 <copumpkin> but for now, I can't, sorry
03:59:29 <elliott> if java has solved your module issue
03:59:31 <elliott> your issue is wrong
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03:59:50 <elliott> copumpkin: i don't really mind the api, i just want you to fix the function :(
04:00:03 <copumpkin> NO
04:00:05 <elliott> maybe i'll abstract a way a change-ref (i.e. object id) and use that as the key.
04:00:11 <elliott> which i have to do anyway
04:00:12 <elliott> but
04:00:13 <Sgeo> Java has no conflicting packages whose names are the same
04:00:14 <elliott> it would be so ugly
04:00:21 <Sgeo> Or at least, if people weren't idiots, it wouldn't
04:00:25 <elliott> Sgeo: yes it does
04:00:28 <elliott> foo.org.blah
04:00:29 <elliott> foo.org expires
04:00:31 <zzo38> Why can I not make a warning about converting a integer to a pointer without a cast, into error, without making other warnings also errors?
04:00:32 <elliott> new owner takes it up
04:00:33 <Sgeo> Ooh
04:00:34 <elliott> foo.org.blah
04:00:39 <elliott> OH SNAP
04:00:56 <elliott> Sgeo: the only solution to your problem is having the cryptographic hash of the API be the hash's name (tuomov has proposed this solution)
04:01:58 <cheater00> Sgeo: what about python?
04:03:09 <zzo38> Can you just use #line if you want the compiler to emit an error message for compile-time-assertions?
04:03:21 <zzo38> (Such as arrays that conditionally have negative size)
04:03:31 <zzo38> (I have tried this, and it works)
04:04:14 <zzo38> The command in the new C specification that says you can make compile-time-assertions is unnecessary, I think.
04:05:01 <elliott> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvyaGhc1mg
04:05:31 <elliott> pure awesome
04:05:32 <Sgeo> elliott, there's another solution, that I think Newspeak is heading in
04:05:45 <elliott> Sgeo: being?
04:05:49 <Sgeo> Have names not need to be unique within a system.
04:06:19 <elliott> Sgeo: that doesn't really solve any problem unless you're more specific.
04:06:42 <zzo38> Sgeo: What are you trying to make?
04:07:03 <Sgeo> Suppose you have two packages named Foobar. No packakages that use either Foobar have the name Foobar forcefully encoded in
04:07:07 <Sgeo> Just as documentation
04:07:23 <Sgeo> The user might call one copy of Foobar Foobar_to_do_this and the other Foobar_to_do_that
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04:07:36 <Sgeo> Hook each up to wherever it needs to go in the IDE
04:07:37 <elliott> Sgeo: The problem is, of course, that every time you use a module at the top level, you have to give it EVERY FUCKING MODULE THERE IS.
04:08:38 <Sgeo> No, just the ones it needs. And if you don't have duplicate names in a system yet, the IDE does it automatically perhaps
04:08:57 <elliott> Sgeo: (1) That's what I meant. Consider something that needs 30 modules.
04:09:26 <elliott> Sgeo: (2) So basically, duplicate names are REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING to the point where you'd never want them anyway (and you're handwaving language issues by diverting them to some "IDE" that is well beyond the well-defined accepted scope of an IDE)
04:10:06 <zzo38> elliott: In what programming language? Java?
04:10:12 <elliott> Newspeak.
04:10:30 <Sgeo> Note: I am not on the Newspeak team. Just imagining where I think it would go
04:10:51 <zzo38> OK I found it on Wikipedia now.
04:11:22 <Sgeo> elliott, instead of saying "IDE", is a config file better?
04:11:29 <elliott> Sgeo: No, not really.
04:11:34 <elliott> Name conflicts are still a horrific pain with that system.
04:11:46 <Sgeo> elliott, at least they can be dealt with
04:11:53 <elliott> For instance, a module can't use a module X, and also use another module that wants a different module called X.
04:11:55 <elliott> Sgeo: They shouldn't be.
04:12:20 <Sgeo> elliott, yes, it can?
04:12:24 <zzo38> (I avoid using Google whenever possible, so sometimes I search for things on Wikipedia instead.)
04:12:28 <elliott> No, it can't?
04:13:13 <Sgeo> Hook up other module's X to the X it wants, and main module's X to the X it wants
04:13:41 <elliott> I see, so you get a horrible tangle if two commonly-used modules use different modules named X.
04:13:48 <elliott> Not to mention that EVEN IF YOU CONFIGURE IT CORRECTLY,
04:13:57 <elliott> you're going to have a world of confusion as you try and talk about it:
04:14:04 <elliott> "So X1 does blah, and ..." "Which one is X1 again?"
04:14:08 <elliott> "The one that does X." "They both do X."
04:14:17 <zzo38> That is why they need to add a command to rename modules.
04:14:23 <elliott> "Uhh, the one that Poophead wrote." "Oh. Is that the one with the API that looks like turds or the API that looks like turdy turds?"
04:14:25 <elliott> "Turdy turds."
04:14:35 <elliott> "*looks at the code* No, that's the other one."
04:14:36 <elliott> "Oops."
04:14:42 <zzo38> (Like the ALIAS command in Visual Basic, I guess.)
04:18:00 <Sgeo> elliott, so it's not perfect, it can still be better than the rest
04:18:08 <elliott> Not really.
04:18:16 <elliott> I don't remember the last time I actually saw a naming conflict.
04:18:27 <elliott> I have to wonder why you are obsessed with them.
04:19:02 <Sgeo> Because the idea of their existence horrifies me
04:19:12 <elliott> Horrifies.
04:19:15 <elliott> Are you sure you want to use that word.
04:19:19 <elliott> Does it not strike you as too strong
04:19:41 <Sgeo> Does the word hyperbole strike you as a bit too..
04:20:10 <elliott> Considering you've talked about some random pseudoscientific book as making you physically ill, I really don't think I can assume hyperbole any more.
04:23:33 <elliott> I wonder if the archive of tuomov's blog is complete.
04:23:52 <elliott> Perhaps I could ask tuomov for the missing posts if not.
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04:37:57 <elliott> Sgeo: Here is tuomov's post about APIs and modules. http://tuomov.bitcheese.net/b/archives/2007/07/16/T22_41_22
04:41:15 <elliott> Sgeo: You should read it.
04:41:20 <Sgeo> I a
04:41:21 <Sgeo> am
04:42:17 <elliott> Yeah, the archive is not complete it seems ...
04:43:42 * Sgeo is tired
04:43:48 <Sgeo> And not in the best of moods
04:43:49 <elliott> Less tired, more reading!
04:45:13 <elliott> Oh man, scapegoat is gonna rock.
04:49:22 <elliott> http://bugs.darcs.net/issue64 <-- finally fucking resolved
04:49:23 <elliott> Sgeo: Read it?
04:49:28 <Sgeo> YES
04:49:34 <elliott> Sgeo: Enlightened?
04:49:34 <Sgeo> I DID
04:49:38 <elliott> Sgeo: Enlightened?
04:49:45 <Sgeo> I don't care right now
04:50:09 <Sgeo> Darcs is anti-tf8?
04:50:12 <Sgeo> Oh, you said resulved
04:50:14 <Sgeo> ressolved
04:50:17 <Sgeo> fuck it
04:50:38 <elliott> o_O
04:50:41 <elliott> Sgeo: You seem...disturbed.
04:50:50 <Sgeo> She's still not online
04:52:47 <elliott> Missing the bus and calling at the last limit ... (presumably) implying she'd be online and then not being so... Hmmmmmmmm.
04:52:49 <elliott> I am going to sleep now.
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04:53:15 <Sgeo> She didn't know that it takes me so long to get to the mall
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04:56:43 <oklopol> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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05:34:02 <pikhq_> I need a new graphics card.
05:34:07 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq.
05:34:49 <pikhq> With ATi, I've got a choice of: slightly unstable drivers, or slightly unstable drivers *that fucking glitch like crazy* (those being the "official" drivers).
05:39:03 <pikhq> Seriously, the official drivers suck balls.
05:40:19 <quintopia> i believed you the first time
05:40:53 <pikhq> quintopia: It needs to be said often.
05:41:28 <pikhq> Also, Flash is a monstrosity and Adobe should be murdered for it.
05:41:53 <pikhq> I don't care if it's impractical to murder an international megacorp, either!
05:44:11 <quintopia> well, bombing their headquarters doesn't seem so infeasible at least
05:45:52 <quintopia> < sean_> inglip would kick zalgo's ass
05:46:03 <quintopia> what shall i tell him?
05:48:20 <Sgeo> quickly, bring pie
05:50:04 <Ilari> Hah... Another piece of drivel promoting fantasy "mediterrainian diet".
05:52:27 <Ilari> "extra virgin olive oil and canola oil in place of saturated and trans fats" ... Yeah, right... Maybe they use _some_ olive oil (cold-pressed)... But sure no rancid-at-the-shelves canola/rapeseed oil...
05:53:04 <Ilari> And then there's the French paradox...
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06:05:43 <Ilari> French Paradox: Why do French have so little heart disease even if their saturated fat consumption is so high?
06:07:43 <pikhq> Answer: correlation ≠ causation.
06:17:36 <Sgeo> I'm certain my away message is a quote from some Simpsons book, a guide to either Simpsons episodes or to Springfield
06:17:40 <Sgeo> But Google turns up nothing
06:17:41 <Sgeo> :(
06:17:43 <Sgeo> Night all
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06:39:14 <pikhq> GAH!
06:40:22 <pikhq> Star Wars trilogies are getting yet *another* modified rerelease. Though the prequels probably can't be made much *worse* by Lucas, I wonder how fucking awful he's going to be to the original trilogy this time.
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07:10:43 <Ilari> Lagerholm estimate is now below 7 days... The estimate for today will come in about 1.5 hours... But I doubt it is going to be more optimistic...
07:10:54 <Ilari> Current burnrate in used /8 per month: 1.84
07:16:32 <Ilari> HURRR... http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/fig25.png
07:16:47 <Ilari> Is that some sort of data processing error???
07:18:16 <Ilari> And for extra fun, APNIC seems to be handing out about half of the addresses...
07:26:54 <pikhq> Probably more pessimistic, if anything.
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08:42:04 <Ilari> Now the estimate is today (of course, being Saturday, it is not likely that anything happens before monday...
08:42:48 <Ilari> Last 5 days large allocations: 6.5Mi
08:45:46 <Ilari> Okay, these predictions are quite messed up...
08:49:49 <Ilari> The fastest case is APNIC having requested the blocks on Friday (and IANA has not yet processed the request...)
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09:16:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Been discussing Weetabix, have we?
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09:39:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Lagerholm estimate is today.
09:40:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow.
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10:21:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, they already updated Painterly.
10:21:50 <Phantom_Hoover> That is astonishing.
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10:40:00 <bc98270> suck
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13:27:03 <oklopol> o
13:27:07 <oklopol> hi ais, how's up
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14:43:14 <Phantom_Hoover> YouTube comments will never cease to destroy my faith in humanity.
14:44:00 <Sgeo> Example?
14:44:28 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEATei2wewY&feature=related
14:44:39 <Phantom_Hoover> First listen to the soundtrack. Then read the comments.
14:45:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Half of them are right-wing screeching.
14:51:19 <Sgeo> I was wondering where I heard that song
14:59:48 <Ilari> Heh... I just remembered that my earlier estimate of IANA IPv4 depletion estimate was mid-January... Lagerholm estimate is now "any moment now"...
15:01:12 <Phantom_Hoover> How do we know when it happens?
15:01:34 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure it'll be all over reddit
15:09:26 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IaJ8bec8fg
15:09:29 <Sgeo> Is that a bug?
15:10:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, if that's not been fixed, it's insanely useful.
15:10:24 <Phantom_Hoover> It has been fixed. Damn.
15:10:31 <Sgeo> Linky?
15:13:22 <Sgeo> Meh
15:13:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, look at the comments.
15:13:50 <Sgeo> On a different vid: "I don't know why this never occurred to me. What a great method. xD Once buckets are fixed in multiplayer, I'm going to use this on the obsidian tower I'm building."
15:13:58 <Sgeo> What's wrong with buckets in multiplayer?
15:14:21 <Phantom_Hoover> They were a bit unreliable IIRC.
15:18:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Exactly how mathematical is the average CS curriculum?
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15:34:04 <fizzie> I don't know about average, but here it's: not very, unless you deliberately choose courses to make it so.
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16:03:15 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, have you updated the server yet?
16:03:29 * Sgeo is in a good mood
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16:10:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, does it turn out that KT-AT plays AW as well?
16:10:53 <Sgeo> No
16:11:06 <Sgeo> Although I did show her Cybertown a while ago
16:11:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, no. If that were the case, Sgeo would be far too busy being paralysed with joy.
16:11:10 <Sgeo> Just briefly though
16:11:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, oh god.
16:12:04 <Phantom_Hoover> EXTREMELY GOOD ADVICE: do NOT attempt to serenade her. Particularly not with "I see a red robe and I want to paint it black".
16:12:28 <Sgeo> I don't know if she was bored. I do know she was once bored when I was describing some computer thing. And it's not like we haven't done anything that bored me
16:13:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, you are only allowed to liveblog in the event of impending trollpocalypse.
16:13:49 <Sgeo> Did I ever mention the time that I took a journal to school and wrote about what happened as, or shortly after, it happened?
16:16:19 <quintopia> wow
16:16:29 <quintopia> that sounds like the most boring journal ever
16:16:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Particularly given Sgeo's academic career.
16:17:12 <Sgeo> Not boring
16:17:14 <Sgeo> I think
16:17:21 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. being sent to a 5th-rate college because his dad is a total smeghead.
16:17:21 <Sgeo> But you'd think I was a pervert perhaps
16:17:29 <Sgeo> Also, this was in highschool
16:17:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, o god please tell me you weren't writing down your fantasies.
16:18:19 <quintopia> and please say they didn't involve urination
16:20:40 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, please tell me he wasn't writing down his urolagnic fantasies.
16:20:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
16:20:40 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: this program is linked into the market-o-matic, thinking that i claim no special effort to keep solaris his sign of the
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16:21:08 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, please tell me he wasn't writing down his urolagnic fantasies.
16:21:08 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: claimed that the victim) subject:re: `which foo` error message
16:21:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, right.
16:21:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Effing connection.
16:22:30 <Sgeo> "Today, 3/9/07, begins my Era of Documentation. A while ago, my Dad told me not to use LiveJournal as a private journal. I wish I disobeyed him sooner."
16:22:55 <quintopia> should have listened to him :/
16:23:13 <oklopol> and here in turku it's even less mathematical than in helsinki
16:23:16 <oklopol> cs
16:23:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Why is this computer unable to competently hold onto a wireless network.
16:23:26 <oklopol> afaiu
16:23:52 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: why no wired connection
16:24:01 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, when I'm on Linux and at school, I have the same problem
16:24:17 <Gregor> Wow, Weetabix looks extremely gross :P
16:24:37 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, because I live in a hundred-year-old house and as such it was not designed with easy Ethernet cable access in mind.
16:24:37 <Gregor> "Here is a dense, solid block of cereal product. Digest it."
16:24:58 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: oh i know how that goes :/
16:25:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, wait, you actually disobeyed your father over something>
16:25:20 <oklopol> Gregor: no u look like a solid block
16:25:25 <Sgeo> Since 2007 or so, all the time
16:25:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, before or after you let him pick your college?
16:25:53 <Sgeo> Slightly before
16:25:59 <pikhq> Gregor: Holy crap, it's Industrial Food Product.
16:26:11 <Sgeo> I didn't say I disobey him on everything
16:26:13 <pikhq> Well. More so than the rest of an American diet.
16:26:29 <Sgeo> Just things like having my name on Facebook, talking to people about him, etc.
16:26:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, it's called Farmingdale.
16:26:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Farming. Dale.
16:27:09 <Phantom_Hoover> They thought "Farming" did not indicate how rustic they were.
16:27:19 <Phantom_Hoover> So they stuck "dale" on the end.
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16:27:43 <Phantom_Hoover> That alone should indicate that you ignore anyone who says it's a good place to study computers.
16:28:04 <oklopol> well computer science is a bit gay anyway
16:28:06 <pikhq> ... He goes to a college called *Farmingdale*?
16:28:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
16:28:13 <quintopia> it sounds like a knock-off social networking game
16:28:13 <Gregor> oklopol: Farming is not.
16:28:22 <oklopol> Gregor: it's a man's job!
16:28:25 <Sgeo> pikhq, no, it's located in a place called Farmingdale
16:28:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, the point still stands.
16:28:49 <oklopol> i'm not sure what that was an argument for, exactly
16:29:03 <Gregor> oklopol: And there's nothing more manly than a man in another man's embrace!
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16:29:22 <pikhq> Sgeo: My intelligence informs me that it's SUNY Farmingdale, or formerly, Long Island Agricultural and Technical Institute.
16:29:28 <quintopia> let's all give up computers, move to PA, stop shaving our beards, and farm!
16:29:57 <pikhq> oklopol: Computer science is gay? Okay, then. Where's a phallus...
16:29:59 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, awful, isn't it.
16:30:13 <Sgeo> pikhq, well, it's... what I meant is that it's not called that because the college just decided "Hey, Farmingdale is an awesome name for a college", which is what I thought you meant.
16:30:54 <pikhq> Sgeo: Dear God man, you'd have a more respectible education at Devry. And those people ride the short bus!
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16:31:05 * Sgeo gets offended at pikhq
16:31:37 <pikhq> Your dad offends my sensibilities!
16:31:40 <quintopia> he may be offensive...but he may be right...
16:31:48 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, he offends everyone's sensibilities.
16:31:56 <oklopol> respectable education is a bit gay anyway
16:32:00 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Except apparently Sgeo's.
16:32:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF5yBBf-1ps
16:32:16 <Gregor> pikhq: My dad tells me he regularly has this conversation at work: "My son got into {Devry,University of Phoenix,Other Boxtop University}." "That's nice, my son is a doctoral student at Purdue." "*fume*"
16:32:22 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, so it's not relevant at all, but it's funny.
16:32:38 <Sgeo> "This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."
16:32:48 <pikhq> Gregor: ... Who would be *proud* of being a student at one of those boxtop universities?
16:32:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, NO SOUP FOR YOU
16:32:52 <quintopia> oklopol: you're slowly convincing me that I should go gay. keep it up and I'll soon be asking you to undress...
16:32:58 <pikhq> Gregor: My community college has stricter requirements.
16:33:22 <oklopol> quintopia: i'm always naked when i'm on irc
16:33:28 <pikhq> oklopol: Pencils are phallic, and we know what Freud has to say about phallic objects.
16:33:29 * Phantom_Hoover laughs at the pathetic Americans.
16:33:40 <Gregor> quintopia: But ... he's some scrawny little Finnish twink :P
16:33:40 <quintopia> oklopol: dicks or GTFO
16:34:02 <Phantom_Hoover> And someone tell me what a boxtop university is.
16:34:05 <quintopia> Gregor: do you have your hat on?
16:34:15 <Gregor> quintopia: Always!
16:34:23 <oklopol> i'm not at all scrawny
16:34:27 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: one you get a scholarship to by mailing weetabix tops
16:34:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, right.
16:35:02 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: One of a few for-profit colleges which exist *largely* for the purpose of soaking up federal financial aid from students.
16:35:09 <oklopol> well, i was recently told i'm "surprisingly fat" when i told them my weight, i'm not sure how to interpret that
16:35:26 * Gregor is trying to remember which boxtop university it is that's in the /mall/ in Portland.
16:35:44 <pikhq> You can get into them if you are capable of breathing, just about, and their degrees have similar value to a high school diploma.
16:36:00 <Gregor> Apollo College, that's right.
16:36:18 <Gregor> When you go to college in a mall, then you need to reconsider your life decisions :P
16:36:25 <Sgeo> pikhq, is there a way to confirm that my college isn't one of them?
16:36:42 <Sgeo> [It doesn't sound like one. I think]
16:36:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, why, exactly, did your dad send you there?
16:36:52 <pikhq> Sgeo: SUNY isn't one of them, it's just a piss-poor choice for you.
16:36:54 <oklopol> Gregor: you don't have to move to find work after college, the mall and the uni have a deal
16:37:02 <Phantom_Hoover> "Because he's a smeghead" excepted.
16:37:03 <Gregor> oklopol: X-D
16:37:46 <Sgeo> Easy commute + not as competitive
16:37:56 <oklopol> is competitive bad?
16:38:02 <quintopia> oklopol: i do happen to be naked at the moment, and for some reason my bathwater won't get above lukewarm today :/
16:38:08 <oklopol> i wish we had even the slightest bit of competition here
16:38:21 <Sgeo> quintopia, you're on your computer in the bath?
16:38:36 <quintopia> sgeo: my droid
16:38:40 <Sgeo> oklopol, my dad's convinced that I have difficulties getting homework done
16:38:55 <Sgeo> As much as I wish I could say I thought he was wrong...
16:38:56 <pikhq> Sgeo: It's a bit like getting a CS degree from The Institute of Everything Un-Technical. Even if the institute is the best thing ever, *you're a fucking moron* for getting a CS degree there.
16:39:00 <quintopia> ("motorola milestone" in other parts of the world)
16:39:21 <oklopol> Sgeo: however, if you went to a competitive university, you might start doing homework, because it would have a point.
16:39:25 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sgeo> oklopol, my dad's convinced that I have difficulties getting homework done ← I have difficulties getting homework done. Getting homework done doesn't matter.
16:39:29 <oklopol> the point being the competition
16:40:07 <oklopol> well i suppose you might drop out if you sucked ass
16:40:11 <oklopol> which is what you meant
16:40:57 <quintopia> sgeo: i recommend you transfer somewhere better at the earliest available opportunity
16:41:34 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: at uni, it matters for the first few years tho
16:41:52 <oklopol> after that, you'll have your own research to do anyway, so homework is just a sidejob
16:41:55 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, not at Sgeo's.
16:42:37 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: well no but i mean whereever you'll go
16:42:47 <oklopol> if you're going to
16:42:57 <oklopol> assuming Sgeo's university is as crappy as i hear
16:43:32 <quintopia> it's not the uni that's crappy, it's his program
16:44:38 <pikhq> ... Holy crap they don't even *offer* computer science.
16:44:49 <pikhq> They offer "computer programming & information systems".
16:45:01 <Sgeo> pikhq, yes
16:45:09 <Sgeo> They had a CS program once
16:45:12 <oklopol> pikhq: that's also the case in turku :\ although partly because our math department has all the good cs
16:45:50 <pikhq> "Data structures" is an optional class and it's 300 level!
16:45:59 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sgeo> They had a CS program once ← "once"
16:46:14 <pikhq> It requires business classes!
16:46:19 <Sgeo> I don't think Data Structures is optional
16:46:55 <pikhq> Sgeo: I'm looking at the degree requirements. Only required in the "programming track".
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16:47:41 <pikhq> Sgeo: BTW: data structures in most CS programs is a freshman course.
16:47:53 <Sgeo> ....what? Seriously?
16:48:13 <quintopia> yes you seriously need to transfer asap
16:49:00 <pikhq> And *holy God* the math requirements are light.
16:49:01 <Sgeo> Can I get a Bachlor's here, and then do stuff at a more interesting place?
16:49:10 <Sgeo> pikhq, there are math requirements?
16:49:18 <pikhq> Calc I and "Probability methods".
16:49:30 <oklopol> calc 1 is like some precalc shit or?
16:49:39 <pikhq> Sgeo: Most places I've looked, a CS degree gets you a math minor for free.
16:49:42 <quintopia> sgeo: just transfer now and get a bachelor's elsewhere
16:49:46 <oklopol> "here's the rules you learned in high school PLUS 5 MORE!"
16:49:53 <pikhq> oklopol: It's the first of three courses on the calculus of integrals and derivatives.
16:50:08 <quintopia> pikhq: i got a dual major with just like two or so more classes
16:50:27 <pikhq> quintopia: Yeah, I'm getting a math degree for 3 extra credit hours.
16:50:39 <fizzie> At least around here you can't include the same course (credit-point-wise) in multiple "modules".
16:50:59 <quintopia> fizzie: here you can :P
16:51:03 <pikhq> quintopia: But if I literally *didn't try*, I would have a math minor.
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16:51:07 <fizzie> So getting a second minor is automatical +20 or +30 credits or however much it was.
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16:51:33 <pikhq> fizzie: Here it's entirely accepted practice.
16:51:34 <quintopia> they only require that you take X extra hours that aren't for the primary major
16:51:35 <fizzie> Anyway, it's a bit problematical in fact when you're taking two minors (or a major and minor) that have a lot of overlapping classes, since you then need to invent credit points for the second.
16:51:46 <quintopia> electives are completely double-dippable
16:51:46 <Phantom_Hoover> <pikhq> oklopol: It's the first of three courses on the calculus of integrals and derivatives. ← so you do polynomials and that's it?
16:52:04 <Sgeo> So, there's no way I could just get a Bachelor's here, and ..whatever the next thing is at Stony Brook?
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16:52:21 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: No, you do 2 dimensional integrals and derivatives. And that's about it.
16:52:33 <Phantom_Hoover> 2 dimensional?
16:52:38 <pikhq> Sgeo: You would have serious trouble going into grad school with that.
16:52:44 <oklopol> fizzie: it's kinda weird there's actually no way to get a major from both math and cs, since there are just not enough courses
16:52:57 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, on functions of single arguments?
16:53:06 <oklopol> i mean, if you've done the stuff required for the degree, why can't you have it...
16:53:22 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, what, so you mean you only work with f(x) rather than f(x,y)?
16:53:29 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah.
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16:53:53 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, erm, here in Scotland you never even touch on multivariate functions.
16:54:07 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Calc III covers calculus on multivariate functions.
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16:54:49 <oklopol> we have a course called multivariate functions, but it's given by a very old guy, so it's way too hard for everybody
16:54:49 <pikhq> Aand calc II is a mishmash of various topics that didn't get covered in calc I.
16:55:16 <pikhq> AAAAGH
16:55:17 <oklopol> the old dudes still think like students should actually work for the courses
16:55:27 <oklopol> "like"?
16:55:32 <pikhq> Sgeo: You can take "Foundations of Programming I" *or* "Programming in Visual Basic".
16:55:41 <oklopol> pikhq: is that a joke? :D
16:55:53 <pikhq> oklopol: No.
16:55:58 <oklopol> i can't stop laughing
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16:56:19 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, I can only conclude that it is educating farmers in CS applicable to sheep feeders.
16:56:29 <pikhq> Sgeo: Frankly, I'd be worried about your courses *transferring*.
16:56:36 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: It's not even a CS degree!
16:57:15 -!- charlvn has joined.
16:58:00 * Phantom_Hoover tries to remember how many universities there are in Edinburgh, fails.
16:58:24 -!- charlvn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
16:58:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Looks like it's two.
16:58:51 <oklopol> are you in edinburg ph
16:59:03 <Phantom_Hoover> *Edinburgh. And yes, I am.
16:59:07 <oklopol> i was there just recently, we could've played the bagpipe together
16:59:08 <oklopol> oh sorry
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16:59:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Bagpipes: WORST THING EVER
16:59:27 -!- charlvn has joined.
16:59:34 <oklopol> well eaten haggis then'
16:59:37 <oklopol> worn kilt
16:59:44 <Phantom_Hoover> I've never worn a kilt, either.
16:59:46 <oklopol> drinking beer
16:59:49 <oklopol> having sex with sheep
16:59:58 <oklopol> fuck do i know what you ppl do in your spare time
16:59:59 <Phantom_Hoover> That's Wales, you fool.
17:00:02 <oklopol> oh sry
17:00:26 <Gregor> HEY
17:00:30 <Gregor> Bagpipes are great.
17:00:34 <Gregor> Almost as good as accordions.
17:00:39 <pikhq> You're also required at Sgeo's school to take "Management Theories and Practices"...
17:00:41 -!- charlvn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
17:00:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, not when you can't go anywhere near the city centre without hearing them!
17:00:55 <pikhq> ... He's required to take more business classes than math classes!
17:01:24 <pikhq> Sgeo: Your degree is a joke.
17:02:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, which college does he go to again?
17:03:07 <oklopol> haha i wonder if they teach Sgeo to mind his own business haha
17:03:23 <Phantom_Hoover> (Also, why do you Americans not have universities? Why is it all colleges?)
17:03:24 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: SUNY Farmingdale.
17:03:46 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: And we do have universities; we just tend to refer to any degree-granting institution as a "college".
17:03:58 <pikhq> Including universities.
17:04:05 <oklopol> Sgeo: which do you regret more, going to fd or mentioning it here? :D
17:04:15 <Sgeo> Going to FD
17:04:29 <Sgeo> Although there were some nice things social-wise
17:04:38 <Phantom_Hoover> AFAIU colleges here are either constituents of universities or places that do some kind of vocational training.
17:04:54 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Colleges are *also* constituents of universities here...
17:05:05 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: In addition to being any degree-granting institution.
17:05:09 <Gregor> <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: And we do have universities; we just tend to refer to any degree-granting institution as a "college". // uhh ... no?
17:05:22 <Gregor> Well, yeah, I guess so ... implicitly.
17:05:31 <Gregor> You say "I go to college" even if you go to a university.
17:05:46 <pikhq> You say "college degree" even if it's from a univeristy.
17:06:00 <pikhq> You actually *call* it a college even if it's a university...
17:06:30 <Phantom_Hoover> You guys have for-profit universities.
17:06:36 <Phantom_Hoover> What.
17:07:17 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Arguably, even our public universities are for-profit.
17:07:21 <oklopol> usa has for-profit free food for the poor organizations
17:07:23 <coppro> here, colleges are not universities
17:07:25 <coppro> at all
17:07:34 <pikhq> The USA also has for-proift prisons.
17:07:57 <coppro> pikhq: inmates don't get to vote right?
17:08:08 <pikhq> coppro: It depends on the state, actually.
17:10:19 <Gregor> "Two states—Maine and Vermont—allow prison inmates to vote."
17:10:30 <coppro> good for them
17:10:39 <coppro> (inmates got the vote here thanks to the Charter(
17:11:02 <Gregor> Disenfranchisement is considered elsewhere to be part of the punishment for crime *shrugs*
17:11:11 <Gregor> If people actually cared about voting, then it would be a legit punishment :P
17:11:30 <coppro> the problem is that by denying inmates the right to vote, you effectively deny any useful commentary on the prison system
17:11:30 <pikhq> Two states disenfranchise all felons. Even after their sentence is done.
17:11:42 <coppro> since the only users of a prison get no say
17:11:44 <coppro> wow
17:11:53 <coppro> Arizona and Texas?
17:11:58 <pikhq> Kentucky and Virginia.
17:12:02 <coppro> darn :(
17:12:14 <coppro> that sounds surprisingly liberal for texas
17:12:40 <pikhq> Texas isn't completely *nuts*.
17:14:42 <cheater00> push button, receive bacon
17:15:01 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, is the justification "being tough on crime"?
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17:16:11 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yup!
17:16:11 <impomatic> Hi :-)
17:16:19 <Gregor> cheater00: Push button, receive weetabix D'AWWWW
17:16:20 <quintopia> coppro: most prison inmates never voted a day in their life, and even if they all did, they'd still be in the minority
17:16:45 <pikhq> It's only old people that vote in the US.
17:17:14 <pikhq> So, the politics tends to trail decades behind.
17:17:16 <impomatic> We vote with student riots in the U.K.
17:17:17 <quintopia> hence the AARP being the biggest most powerful PAC
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17:21:10 <coppro> AARP and PAC?
17:22:22 <quintopia> =old people's society and =lobbying organization
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17:23:54 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, that is quite possibly the most hilarious thing I have heard about US politics.
17:24:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Your country. Is ruled. By an old people's organisation.
17:24:44 <quintopia> all the major politicians are old people too. at least the president is young
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17:37:25 <Vorpal> fun "microcode error detected" from wlan card. rmmod and modprobe worked
17:39:49 <Phantom_Hoover> AAAAAARRRRGGGGH my architecture has failed!
17:40:00 <Phantom_Hoover> There is a spider on top of the shaft to my mines!
17:40:24 <olsner> haha sucks to be you
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17:58:48 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, oh, you came just too late.
17:58:54 <elliott> Oh god what did I miss.
17:59:57 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq was telling Sgeo that his college is the worst ever, in detail.
18:00:11 <elliott> Did Sgeo listen?
18:00:18 <Phantom_Hoover> (Turns out they do more management courses than mathematical ones.)
18:00:18 <elliott> 02:21:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, they already updated Painterly.
18:00:18 <elliott> 02:21:50 <Phantom_Hoover> That is astonishing.
18:00:21 <elliott> It's only 16x16. :p
18:03:49 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> I've never worn a kilt, either. <-- YOU'RE NO TRUE SCOTSMAN!
18:04:07 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, nope.
18:05:18 <elliott> 08:24:17 <Gregor> Wow, Weetabix looks extremely gross :P
18:05:18 <elliott> 08:24:37 <Gregor> "Here is a dense, solid block of cereal product. Digest it."
18:05:20 <elliott> TRAITOR OF WEETABIX
18:05:22 <elliott> DESTROYER OF SOULS
18:09:31 -!- Behold has joined.
18:09:45 <Phantom_Hoover> 08:37:46 <Sgeo> Easy commute + not as competitive ← wait, surely you could, y'know, live away from home.
18:09:58 <elliott> UNTHINKABLE HIS DAD WOULD BEAT HIM INTO A BLOODY PULP
18:10:01 <elliott> 08:32:52 <quintopia> oklopol: you're slowly convincing me that I should go gay. keep it up and I'll soon be asking you to undress...
18:10:02 <elliott> Hey, it's just like 2008!
18:10:52 <Sgeo> I was never allowed to go to sleep-away camp as a kid
18:10:58 <Sgeo> My parents thought I wouldn't eat.
18:11:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, ...
18:11:16 <Phantom_Hoover> They *thought* that.
18:11:25 <elliott> I need live advice, people: do I laugh, or do I curl into a ball and cry on Sgeo's behalf?
18:11:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:11:29 <elliott> I can do both, but I need to know the order.
18:11:39 <Phantom_Hoover> "No, Seth, you can't go to camp, you won't eat." "But I LIKE eating!" "Not at camp, you won't."
18:11:47 <oerjan> elliott: simultaneously
18:11:52 <elliott> Isn't it well-known that Sgeo doesn't actually like eating at all.
18:11:59 <Sgeo> What elliott said.
18:12:01 <elliott> 08:36:25 <Sgeo> pikhq, is there a way to confirm that my college isn't one of them?
18:12:02 <elliott> 08:36:42 <Sgeo> [It doesn't sound like one. I think]
18:12:02 <elliott> Let me think... SUNY... STATE UNIVERSITY of New York ... hmm ... state university ... hmmmmmmmmmm
18:12:15 <elliott> Probably an independent, for-profit corporation.
18:12:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, why the hell did they think you wouldn't eat?
18:12:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Do you have a habit of not eating?
18:12:32 <Sgeo> Yes
18:12:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You don't know this ...?
18:12:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Huh.
18:13:01 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, why exactly would I?
18:13:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Because it comes up all the time?
18:13:13 <Phantom_Hoover> It does?
18:13:18 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought he just didn't sleep.
18:13:19 <elliott> Well, in Sgeoland.
18:13:32 <Sgeo> My sleep issues are relatively recent!
18:13:44 <oerjan> Sgeo: next, breathing!
18:13:47 <elliott> "But my eating issues you can RELY on!
18:13:48 <elliott> *on!"
18:14:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, so you can't live in student accommodation because you won't eat?
18:14:56 <elliott> i can set up a bot to order you to eat at regular intervals
18:14:58 <elliott> if that would help
18:15:02 <elliott> :D
18:15:09 <Sgeo> My step-mom's convinced that my unwillingness to organize and throw stuff out in this messy house is an indication that I can't live on my own
18:15:17 <Sgeo> [My step-mom's crazier than my dad]
18:15:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, Christ.
18:15:36 <elliott> Sgeo's step mother has never seen student accommodation.
18:15:36 <Phantom_Hoover> How the hell can someone be crazier than your dad?
18:15:41 <elliott> And believes it to be a place of cleanliness and perfection
18:16:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
18:16:34 <Sgeo> "You're not allowed to date non-Jewish girls" "You're ill"
18:16:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, that offer to kidnap your father is now extended to murdering your stepmother.
18:17:00 <elliott> "You're not allowed to date non-Jewish girls" <-- bitch
18:17:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, *murdering your stepmother very painfully
18:17:19 <elliott> with a fork?
18:17:22 <elliott> gotta have the forks
18:17:36 <Gregor> lawl, wtf
18:17:41 <Gregor> Since when is Sgeo even Jewish?
18:17:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, dunno.
18:17:56 <Sgeo> She also says that that my mom wanted me to only date Jewish girls. While I think my mom would prefer it slightly, I don't think she was that strict about it"
18:18:01 <Gregor> Besides, the Jewish side of my family says things more like "You're not allowed to date Jewish girls."
18:18:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, why did you not just spit in her face at this point?
18:19:08 <elliott> Spit ACID IN HER FACE
18:19:14 <elliott> Bonus points for not melting your tongue and gums firts
18:19:15 <elliott> *first
18:21:00 -!- Slereah has joined.
18:21:04 <elliott> Sgeo: i'm not sure if it's been mentioned enough but you should transfer to another college right now before it's too late and you get a useless degree that gets you nowhere at all ever
18:21:06 * oerjan now imagines Sgeo always wearing hasidic garb
18:21:08 <elliott> just sayin'
18:21:12 <elliott> PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA?
18:21:31 <elliott> alternatively drop out because you could just scribble some crayons on a piece of blank paper and get a degree of similar usefulness
18:21:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, say you're going on a date with KT-AT and NEVER COME BACK
18:21:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: TRYING TO OFFER SERIOUS LIFE ADVICE HERE
18:21:50 <elliott> KTHX
18:22:49 <oklopol> i'm sure Sgeo is aware that he could just leave if he liked
18:23:04 <Sgeo> But my degree is almost done!
18:23:04 <elliott> oklopol: i'm not sure he's aware that it's the only sane option
18:23:11 <Sgeo> </sunk-cost>
18:23:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, the degree will *decrease* your prospects.
18:23:18 <elliott> Sgeo: And...then what? You're not gonna get into grad school with it ...
18:23:37 <elliott> Sgeo: If you transfer it's not like you're going to have to start at square one...
18:23:38 <Sgeo> Not even at another SUNY school?
18:23:46 <Sgeo> Can I get a degree and then transfer?
18:23:50 <elliott> ...no.
18:23:58 <elliott> You see, you get the degree when you *finish* college.
18:24:02 <elliott> You transfer while you are *in* college.
18:24:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Pretend he doesn't have a degree?
18:24:33 <Sgeo> Can I do all the required courses for a degree, and just not get the degree?
18:24:40 <oklopol> of course
18:24:50 <oklopol> they don't just automatically give it to you
18:24:58 -!- j-invariant has joined.
18:24:59 <elliott> Sgeo: Choice 1: (1) Finish useless degree. (2) Be unable to get into grad school. Choice 2: (1) Transfer to another college. (2) Finish good degree. (3) Get into grad school. Choice 3: what you said but why would you want to do that
18:25:25 <Sgeo> Because the senior project sounds like something I need to do. Have a real project.
18:25:41 <elliott> Because there won't be any "real projects" in another college ...
18:25:47 <elliott> [SARCASM ALERT]
18:26:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, wait, how long have you been at university for?
18:26:37 <quintopia> it sounds like a drastic solution i know, but when all of #esoteric vehemently agrees...well, desperate times call for it
18:26:50 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, since beginning of 2008
18:27:01 <elliott> Seriously.
18:27:05 <elliott> You need to get out of that shithole.
18:27:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, so... 19?
18:27:26 <quintopia> as you said, sunk cost. best not to sink anymore
18:27:36 <Phantom_Hoover> What'd you do between leaving school and then?
18:27:40 <elliott> Because if you sink... you DROWN </overblown nautical metaphor>
18:27:56 <Sgeo> Nothing.
18:28:05 <Sgeo> It felt like a summer that wouldn't end
18:28:24 <Sgeo> [I hate summers]
18:28:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, erm, you left school at 19?
18:28:40 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, um, hm
18:28:40 <elliott> It was one of those freakish year-long summers.
18:28:43 <Sgeo> No, 18
18:28:51 <Sgeo> I think
18:29:02 <Sgeo> elliott, just half a year
18:29:07 <elliott> quintopia: do we need to go and tell sgeo to transfer in person
18:29:14 <elliott> I'll get plane tickets
18:29:19 <elliott> let's all do this together!
18:29:21 <Phantom_Hoover> What were you doing that meant you sat around for the end of 2007?
18:29:35 <quintopia> elliott: fuck that. that's more work even than filling out the transfer papers for him and hell if i'm doing that.
18:29:44 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, my step-mom and dad wanted me to go to Israel for a little while. That didn't happen.
18:29:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, ...
18:29:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Why.
18:29:53 <elliott> lol
18:29:57 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: BECAUSE HE'S A GOOD JEW
18:30:08 <elliott> quintopia: Yeah, but he'll give us less horrific stories if he gets out of there, and that's worth anything.
18:30:50 <quintopia> well, i suppose i would feel awful good about helping someone so desperately in need
18:31:00 <quintopia> and as long as you're buying the tix...
18:31:10 <elliott> right
18:31:12 <elliott> Sgeo: what's your address
18:31:33 <quintopia> somewhere near farmingdale ny obviously
18:31:35 <oklopol> i already asked him
18:31:39 <oklopol> wouldn't tell me
18:31:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Farmingrusticruralpigagridaleshire.
18:31:46 <elliott> oklopol: no shit sherlock
18:31:48 <oklopol> just like the rest of you people WHO I THOUGHT WERE MY FRIENDS
18:32:00 <elliott> quintopia: ok we'll meet him AT the college then
18:32:12 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, with some chloroform?
18:32:13 <elliott> i know his name and what he looks like when dressed in a fursuit^Wblood drop costue
18:32:15 <elliott> *costume
18:32:16 <Sgeo> I wonder how my dad would react if he met you
18:32:29 <elliott> Sgeo: We'll never find out, because he'd be unconscious before he realised.
18:32:36 <oklopol> your dad would like me
18:32:40 <oklopol> i'm very likable
18:32:43 <oklopol> able babble
18:32:48 <quintopia> your dad would very much like me
18:32:49 <elliott> babel abble
18:33:03 <oklopol> yeah he and quinn could have a beer together
18:33:04 <quintopia> because he likes people who are smarter than him, right?
18:33:13 <elliott> yeah totally that's why he treats Sgeo like a king
18:33:22 <Phantom_Hoover> I know what his head looks like when he's not in a bloodsuit.
18:33:29 <elliott> quintopia: okay, so, if we meet him at farmingdale, we need to throw him into the back of a truck
18:33:35 <elliott> and drive him to a good college
18:33:41 <oklopol> :D
18:33:43 <Phantom_Hoover> He wouldn't like me, because I am extremely insufferable.
18:33:46 <elliott> go up to the first official-looking person we see
18:33:47 <elliott> say
18:33:58 <elliott> "This poor man was in SUNY FARMINGDALE."
18:34:03 <quintopia> elliott: you rent the truck, i'll drive with my AMURRCAN driver's license
18:34:04 <elliott> "And he didn't even KNOW the implications."
18:34:10 <elliott> They will look horrified, and take him in.
18:34:22 <elliott> quintopia: how does that plan sound to you
18:34:31 <quintopia> it's on
18:34:34 <elliott> right
18:34:40 <elliott> i'll buy tickets tomorrow
18:34:43 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, clearly you should chloroform him because you are stunted by malnourishment and as such he will suspect nothing.
18:34:47 <oklopol> why don't people kidnap each other just for giggles anymore
18:34:50 <quintopia> just to see the look on the poor official looking person's face
18:35:02 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: SGEO KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE STUNTED BY MALNOURISHMENT
18:35:05 <elliott> oklopol: i miss the good ol' days
18:35:25 <quintopia> it's true. sgeo is mentally malnourished in farmingdale
18:35:37 <elliott> 09:17:16 <impomatic> We vote with student riots in the U.K.
18:35:40 <elliott> that would be the greatest voting system
18:35:48 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, naw, elliott is physically malnourished due to the Harrying of the North.
18:35:49 <elliott> "WE DEMAND HIGHER PENSIONS FOR THE ELDERLY"
18:36:19 <quintopia> that...is how politics works in the U.S.
18:36:27 <elliott> but are they all students
18:36:32 <elliott> and do they actually count as votes
18:36:42 <quintopia> no, of course not
18:36:45 <quintopia> votes are worth nothing
18:36:52 <quintopia> riots actually accomplish things
18:37:14 <elliott> i suggest a riot on sgeo's house
18:37:22 <elliott> mostly because i dunno how you'd vote in sgeo's house
18:37:53 <quintopia> it's easy
18:37:54 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, votes are made by bludgeoning Sgeo's father and stepmother.
18:37:58 <quintopia> we all go in there
18:38:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo doesn't live with his stepmother.
18:38:13 <quintopia> and we say "we're all having a vote on whether sgeo has to transfer"
18:38:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: THINGS I AM RAPIDLY TIRING OF: Remakes of random music in Minecraft.
18:38:19 <quintopia> we'll even let his parents vote too
18:38:34 <elliott> only his dad gets a vote
18:38:37 <elliott> wait does Sgeo get to vote
18:38:38 <elliott> nah
18:38:39 <elliott> obviously
18:38:42 <j-invariant> I'm not tired of those yet
18:38:45 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, OK, different sides of Sgeo's father's body.
18:39:10 <quintopia> elliott: let's be fair and let everyone in the household vote. there can't be more than 5 of them and there are at least 20 of us...
18:39:19 <elliott> quintopia: isn't it just Sgeo and his father.
18:39:23 <oklopol> how do you what we're going to vote
18:39:27 <quintopia> i wouldn't know
18:39:36 <quintopia> if so, they can both vote, why not?
18:39:55 <quintopia> i would hate to be accused of being unfair
18:39:58 <Sgeo> Just me and my dad
18:40:03 <elliott> that makes it easier
18:40:05 <Sgeo> Bye, going to meet up with KT-AT
18:40:09 <elliott> heh
18:40:16 <elliott> Sgeo: if you moved
18:40:18 <elliott> you could move
18:40:20 <elliott> CLOSER TO KTAT
18:40:34 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18:40:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: So I've been thinking about yellowstone (Notch feckin stole blue for lapis).
18:40:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, PRETEND SHE KIDNAPPED YOU
18:41:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: The opening of this video is the most amazing thing ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewFrgDPCgGA
18:41:27 <elliott> Watch it. You will not regret it.
18:42:17 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, :D
18:44:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opuQmQy87x4
18:45:18 <quintopia> elliott: fog is a wonderful thing
18:49:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I have an idea for an RNG in Minecraft.
18:50:03 <elliott> As in, using only existing blocks.
18:50:29 <Phantom_Hoover> There are already some pretty compact ones.
18:51:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Um, what?
18:51:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: AFAIK nobody has made an RNG in Minecraft before.
18:51:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I mean --
18:51:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: One that seeds itself.
18:51:47 <elliott> i.e., if you run the circuit multiple times, you'll get different results.
18:51:50 <Phantom_Hoover> There's that one that was used for the creepy door.
18:51:53 <elliott> Even if you restore a save.
18:51:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What door? Also, it probably had a predefined seed.
18:52:43 <Phantom_Hoover> A friend elsewhere has just said that Chrome logs your browsing history to Google.
18:52:53 <elliott> Your friend is wrong.
18:53:11 <elliott> See Preferences -> Under the Bonnet for an enumeration of all the communication Chrome does to Google.
18:53:12 <elliott> tl;dr:
18:53:13 <j-invariant> oh I see, the dispenser is a block
18:53:22 <j-invariant> I tohught it was some funny trick with the smelter
18:53:22 <elliott> When you put stuff in the address bar it tells Google, to get search results there.
18:53:34 <elliott> It also uses the phishing/malware protection that, sure, sends domain names.
18:53:38 <elliott> But they aren't logged.
18:53:45 <elliott> And... when you get an error page it asks Google for some likely results.
18:53:48 <elliott> All of these are disableable.
18:54:05 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: If he disagrees, tell him to point you to the line in the source code where it communicates with Google.
18:54:53 <j-invariant> what is it?
18:54:59 <elliott> j-invariant: ?
18:55:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I am VERY UPSET that you are not asking me about my amazing RNG idea!
18:56:01 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, OK, go on.
18:56:05 <oklopol> me too, because i was too lazy to ask myself
18:56:19 <elliott> Dispensers throw items a seemingly random distance.
18:56:25 <elliott> Surround a dispenser with wooden pressure plates.
18:56:26 <elliott> Set it off.
18:56:33 <elliott> Use the resulting pressure plate patterns.
18:56:44 <elliott> Issues: (1) Can't reset automatically, AFAIK.
18:56:47 <elliott> (2) ?
18:56:54 <j-invariant> non-uniform
18:56:57 <elliott> Of course, you'd just use the result as a seed.
18:56:59 <elliott> j-invariant: naturally
18:57:02 <elliott> you'd have to account for that
18:57:15 <elliott> by weighting the value of each plate or whatever
18:57:29 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzERWnFoW54&feature=related
18:57:49 <elliott> Fucking kiershar.
18:58:03 <elliott> I guess it's because of minute lag in the redstone system.
18:58:07 <elliott> vs. the game clock or something.
18:58:10 <elliott> I have no idea.
18:58:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Basically, yes.
18:58:27 <j-invariant> where dou find all this redstone stuff..
18:58:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: But if redstone wasn't buggy like that, then my idea would still work!
18:58:34 <elliott> j-invariant: kiershar knows all.
18:59:05 -!- azaq23 has joined.
19:00:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1021&t=114491
19:01:00 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: This pack looks awesome.
19:02:19 <oklopol> there should be a university that has a program in game physics, that is, the whole program is just about reverse-engineering games in-game. would make much more sense than just physics, because instead of one uninteresting universe, you'd have all kinds of universes.
19:03:42 <j-invariant> and minecraft cosmology, we did a bit of that here the other day
19:03:53 <j-invariant> sociology of lemmings
19:04:03 <j-invariant> biology of Dogz
19:04:08 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Wow, Optimine is great.
19:04:10 <j-invariant> (by editing the config files)
19:04:24 <elliott> far/fancy without my fan going to 100%
19:04:59 <oklopol> j-invariant: those topics make sense within this universe, but i'm not sure biology of games would be very a coherent field
19:05:05 <oklopol> by physics, i meant all natural sciences
19:05:07 * Phantom_Hoover wishes BiomeTerrain worked.
19:05:45 <oklopol> well, maybe it might.
19:09:08 <oklopol> i'm not even kidding about that in-game experimentation thing, i never understood the point of finding out stuff about this particular universe, it doesn't get much less interesting than this
19:09:41 <oklopol> "hey you can move around, and if you work for hours you can make an object that's slightly better suited for bashing containers open"
19:09:42 <Slereah> The genetics in Creature is pretty complex, from what I've read
19:09:46 <Slereah> At least as far as games go
19:09:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh boy. There's a bloom filter fort he GLSL shaders mod :P
19:09:51 <elliott> Slereah: Don't make Sgeo start
19:09:56 <oklopol> ...than your hand
19:10:20 <oklopol> Slereah: and even better, you actually get to try them out
19:10:25 <oklopol> unlike on earth
19:10:48 <Slereah> Well, you can do it on earth, too
19:10:52 <oklopol> technically yes
19:10:53 <Slereah> It just takes longer than a day
19:10:57 <oklopol> you can also build a computer in minecraft
19:11:04 <oklopol> who the fuck would, after it's been tested once, tho
19:11:05 <Slereah> So I've read
19:11:11 <Slereah> Well
19:11:13 <Slereah> For instance
19:11:18 <Slereah> You could make a MUSIC BOX
19:11:32 <j-invariant> I got so lost my saved game as become 20 megabytes
19:11:49 <Slereah> heh
19:12:04 <Slereah> I try not to wander too far if I don't have a tunnel near
19:12:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=107720 YESSSSS
19:12:30 <Vorpal> j-invariant, only?
19:12:45 <Vorpal> j-invariant, my local world1 is about 100 MB iirc
19:13:01 <Vorpal> world2 and world3 are about 25-30 MB iirc
19:13:01 <Slereah> Mine is only 8 so far :c
19:13:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, it has hardcoded side-grass. Lame.
19:13:02 <j-invariant> Vorpal: O_O
19:13:09 <Vorpal> (each)
19:13:10 <Slereah> But then again, I do spend a time making my lair pretty
19:13:24 <Vorpal> j-invariant, my local test server world: 110 MB
19:13:45 <j-invariant> Vorpal: what the hell do you *do*? :P
19:14:04 <Vorpal> j-invariant, build (mega-scale). Explore. Spelunk
19:14:08 <j-invariant> cool
19:14:11 <Vorpal> j-invariant, remember I play on peaceful.
19:14:31 <Slereah> You pansy :V
19:14:31 <Vorpal> j-invariant, night is just a minor light level inconvenience to me thus
19:14:45 <Vorpal> Slereah, well sure :P
19:15:11 <Slereah> You need to man up, and spend every night cowering in fear in your lair!
19:15:16 <elliott> j-invariant: try mcregion to get smaller files
19:15:18 <elliott> well
19:15:20 <elliott> and also speed things up
19:15:25 <elliott> j-invariant: optimine + mcregion = awesome fast
19:16:05 <j-invariant> WTF a creeper just jumped off a cliff to get me
19:16:12 <Vorpal> j-invariant, ouch
19:16:37 <Slereah> He is a suicide bomber, j-invariant
19:16:40 <Slereah> What does he care!
19:16:55 <elliott> Slereah: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=107720
19:16:55 <Vorpal> j-invariant, idea: creepers able to build 1x1 towers of dirt to reach you
19:16:56 <elliott> erm
19:16:58 <elliott> http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=107720
19:16:59 <elliott> ermmfsdogmsgflk
19:17:02 <elliott> Slereah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X32nuDEvw-4
19:17:11 <oklopol> all enemies should be able to mine and build just like you
19:17:12 <oklopol> ofc
19:17:17 <Slereah> heh
19:17:36 <oklopol> think how neato, you'd never be safe if they get your scent
19:17:58 <elliott> optimine + mcregion + mipmapping + better light = fuck yeah
19:18:03 <oklopol> so if you walk on the surface during the day, they'll start digging near that area
19:18:11 <Vorpal> oklopol, if you are inside a obsidian structure?
19:18:14 <Vorpal> oklopol, with no door
19:18:17 <Vorpal> then you are safe
19:18:18 <oklopol> Vorpal: well you basically have to be
19:18:20 <j-invariant> do you need something special to mine those bricks tht look like coal but white?
19:18:25 <elliott> j-invariant: what
19:18:27 <coppro> WHY IS THIS #minecraft
19:18:27 <elliott> j-invariant: ???
19:18:29 <elliott> coal but white?
19:18:30 <elliott> screenshot
19:18:32 <oklopol> well you're safe unless they find diamond
19:18:43 <Vorpal> oklopol, hah
19:18:51 <oklopol> they have the whole night to look for it
19:18:52 <elliott> oklopol: Phantom_Hoover just scared me into thinking that accidentally today
19:18:55 <elliott> oklopol: imo i think just zombies should mine
19:18:55 <Vorpal> oklopol, you can mine away obsidian at lower than that
19:19:00 <elliott> creepers explode, skeletons fire arrows, zombies mine
19:19:06 <elliott> after all they look like us and we can mine, and have no special power now
19:19:07 <elliott> 's only logical
19:19:08 <Vorpal> oklopol, just you won't get any obsidian blocks dropped
19:19:15 <oklopol> think about it, every night, a thousand creatures are born that have all the powers of a player, that try to kill you
19:19:19 <Slereah> They are zombies, though
19:19:24 <Slereah> You would need like
19:19:26 <Slereah> Evil dudes
19:19:28 <Slereah> Not dead people
19:19:51 <elliott> Slereah: They can move and jump and punch, so they can mine.
19:19:54 <elliott> (They punch you)
19:20:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Back.
19:20:21 <oklopol> Slereah: except somehow i think they would necessarily be a bit less smart than the player
19:20:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Should I enable Better Grass or not.
19:20:38 <elliott> SO HARD TO DECIDE
19:20:38 <Slereah> Or, alternatively
19:20:43 <Vorpal> I SOMEHOW just got a stack of 65
19:20:44 <Slereah> You can try it multiplayer
19:20:44 <Vorpal> how
19:20:46 <Slereah> And wage war
19:21:00 <Phantom_Hoover> <oklopol> i'm not even kidding about that in-game experimentation thing, i never understood the point of finding out stuff about this particular universe, it doesn't get much less interesting than this
19:21:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Erm, what?
19:21:20 <Phantom_Hoover> We don't even know how it works, and what we do know about that is very interesting.
19:21:45 <Phantom_Hoover> For a start, a fair bit of new mathematics has come from physics.
19:21:49 <oklopol> the actual dynamics are not at all interesting
19:21:53 <Phantom_Hoover> (In modern times.)
19:22:05 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, define "interesting".
19:22:19 <oklopol> that's a bit subjective, but i'm sure you all agree
19:22:29 <oklopol> that's why people play minecraft instead of football
19:22:38 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, erm, what is so boring about quantum physics?
19:23:01 <oklopol> quantum physics is not something you can actually do stuff with
19:23:10 <Slereah> Well, you can
19:23:13 <Slereah> Like
19:23:15 <Slereah> EVERYTHING
19:23:15 <j-invariant> are you guys talking about reality?
19:23:19 <j-invariant> or minecraft?
19:23:19 <oklopol> yeah, if you've built a computer in minecraft
19:23:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: HOLY FUCK CREEPER IN THE DAY
19:23:51 <Slereah> Day creepers are the worst man
19:23:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, the essential reason that we study the way this universe works rather than artificial ones is because a) this one is the one we actually live in and b) we don't actually know how this one works, unlike any artificial ones we make.
19:23:54 <Slereah> Or
19:24:00 <j-invariant> a day creeper just kille dme
19:24:04 <Slereah> Natural caves creeprs :c
19:24:17 <Slereah> When I die, I'm not getting my stuff bck
19:24:25 <elliott> It was day on the FIRST DAY
19:24:27 <elliott> Probably from a cave
19:24:27 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: we certainly do not know how the artificial ones work either
19:24:36 <oklopol> not on a macro level
19:24:37 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, yes, we do.
19:24:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: GoL
19:24:41 <elliott> tell me how it works
19:24:43 <elliott> on a macro level
19:24:44 <Phantom_Hoover> As a species, at least.
19:24:54 <elliott> so hey
19:24:56 <elliott> some mod i have
19:24:58 <oklopol> no one really knows anything about gol
19:24:59 <elliott> has evidently fixed side grass
19:24:59 <elliott> but
19:24:59 <elliott> er
19:25:02 <Phantom_Hoover> And working bottom-up is not what we are doing with reality.
19:25:03 <elliott> http://i.imgur.com/YlDro.png
19:25:04 <elliott> badly
19:25:07 <elliott> :DDD
19:25:08 <elliott> i wonder what did it
19:25:11 <Phantom_Hoover> This is extremely obvious.
19:27:13 <oklopol> but what are interesting are the methods of going top-down, and how simple things turn into macro-things. both can be done separately with artificial models, except you don't have to own a university to be able to do that, and you're not restricted by whatever god chose to include!
19:27:22 <elliott> "The most recent update was on January 15th, and is henceforth known as the Community Appeasement Grab Bag Edition MK II. This update adds nearly 100 new tiles and skins, for the 1.2 beta patch. "
19:27:25 <elliott> nearly 100????
19:28:12 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, innumerable variants.
19:28:27 <elliott> Oak is the normal tree type, right?
19:28:31 <Phantom_Hoover> I looked at the customiser, and it had added a Chinese theme.
19:28:40 <elliott> Omg, finally, I can replace the fucking fugly birch tree bark.
19:29:39 <pikhq> ARGH MY SAVE DISAPPEARED ENTIRELY
19:29:39 <impomatic> ais523: pastebin.ca has been for over a week... Is there any chance you could upload your BF Joust interpreter elsewhere?
19:29:42 <elliott> pikhq: :-(
19:29:45 -!- Behold has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory.
19:29:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Save of what?
19:29:50 <elliott> pikhq: I don't get the problems you do.
19:29:51 <pikhq> Minecraft.
19:29:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: MC.
19:29:57 <elliott> impomatic: use egojoust, it's fairer
19:29:58 <pikhq> I'm hitting every edge case!
19:30:08 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, you have jumped on the bandwagon?
19:30:10 <oklopol> i can't get on the server
19:30:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I helped him pirate it.
19:30:16 <elliott> oklopol: it's not updated yet.
19:30:20 <Vorpal> oklopol, what?
19:30:24 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, snap to it.
19:30:26 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: People who like dark wood textures have a brain disease: discuss.
19:30:26 <Vorpal> oklopol, I saw you join
19:30:28 <Vorpal> and then part
19:30:38 <Vorpal> oklopol, downgrade minecraft and use a non-updating launcher
19:30:39 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I use the dark wood textures!
19:30:40 <pikhq> It's my next purchase when I have expendable income.
19:30:42 <oklopol> oh right so i should've prevented update as well? shit
19:30:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Umm, why do you hate humanity?
19:30:48 <elliott> oklopol: naw
19:30:50 <elliott> oklopol: I haven't
19:30:54 <elliott> oklopol: just play locally for now
19:30:59 <elliott> the update is well worth it.
19:31:03 <oklopol> but playing locally is totally gay!
19:31:04 <oklopol> okay
19:31:06 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: (Actually I'm going to try dark wood.)
19:31:07 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, what, exactly, is wrong with dark wood?
19:31:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Do you use the brick-planks or the line-planks?
19:31:35 <pikhq> elliott: *Part* of the problem is that Minecraft and an IME do not interact at all.
19:31:37 <Phantom_Hoover> On-the-line.
19:31:41 <elliott> pikhq: So disable the IME :P
19:31:49 <pikhq> elliott: Yeah, I closed it.
19:31:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'll try it ... this once...
19:32:07 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, which sandstone texture should I use?
19:32:09 <pikhq> elliott: But, yeah. That's only going to come up for East Asian-language-speakers.
19:32:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I haven't got there yet!
19:32:21 -!- Behold has joined.
19:32:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Moar sign options!
19:32:28 <pikhq> (I group them only because their *technological* requirements are very similar)
19:32:31 <elliott> Good thing too, I don't like the bordered-sign.
19:32:39 <elliott> *bordered sign.
19:32:43 <oklopol> so umm, can i change textures by just changing some sort of pic files
19:32:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: DO YOU USE LIGHT OR DARK STONE
19:32:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Dark, obviously.
19:32:57 <elliott> oklopol: you want to make your own pack?
19:33:00 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Why obviously.
19:33:02 <oklopol> yes
19:33:04 <oklopol> i do
19:33:11 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, because light is unspeakably hideous.
19:33:18 <j-invariant> I need some iron
19:33:19 <Phantom_Hoover> You are plunged into an ocean of beige.
19:33:21 <elliott> oklopol: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Texture_Pack
19:33:27 <elliott> oklopol: look at that list of modifiable files
19:33:31 <elliott> oklopol: copy them all out of minecraft.jar
19:33:33 <elliott> oklopol: make a zip file
19:33:35 <elliott> oklopol: put them all in
19:33:37 <elliott> name it something
19:33:40 <elliott> copy it into a new folder
19:33:43 <elliott> %APPDATA/.minecraft/texturepacks
19:33:47 <elliott> and edit terrain.png inside the zip
19:33:51 <elliott> also other files, but terrain.png is all the blocks
19:34:02 <elliott> you _can_ change them direct in the jar but this is more maintainable
19:34:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, beige is nice
19:34:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I... need a screenshot of your setup with both stone and wood, because it sounds horrifically dark.
19:34:19 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, remember that stupid basic texture pack for slow computers.
19:34:24 <oklopol> okay, that sounds like *seconds* of work
19:34:30 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, it's no darker than the default.
19:34:36 <j-invariant> apparently you can use a stone pickaxe to get iron
19:34:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I NEED SCREENSHOT (also, wood is).
19:34:49 <elliott> j-invariant: Dude, I found iron on my third in-game day...
19:34:54 <elliott> You are mining terribly :P
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19:36:24 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, sec.
19:36:40 <elliott> Minecraft: http://i.imgur.com/ZODJz.gif
19:37:26 <elliott> oklopol: so is your texture pack done
19:37:37 <Phantom_Hoover> http://imgur.com/7kp9M
19:37:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THAT PICTURE: Stone
19:38:35 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, it's 30m up from the ground. Of course there's no stone.
19:38:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: But I asked for stone!
19:38:52 <elliott> DISAPPOINTED PLEASE GIVE SCREENSHOT WITH STONE
19:38:55 <elliott> Also, where IS that?
19:39:01 <elliott> Oh, SSP.
19:39:16 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, http://imgur.com/B7BTZ
19:39:18 <oklopol> so can i have alpha color everywhere
19:39:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Better than the ocean of beige.
19:39:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: looks like gravel
19:39:33 <elliott> oklopol: not on every block i don't think
19:39:43 <elliott> oklopol: with leaves you can have full alpha, dunno about half
19:39:47 <elliott> oklopol: and ice is half-transparent or whatever
19:39:52 <elliott> oklopol: btw changing water/lava does not work
19:39:58 <elliott> you need to use this fancy mcpatcher thing to do that but whatever
19:40:10 <elliott> oklopol: also the blocks at the bottom are the digging animation, you can use any greyscale there
19:40:18 <elliott> *mining animation
19:40:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: So ocean of grey > ocean of beige? :P
19:40:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
19:40:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Beige is the wost colour.
19:40:48 <Phantom_Hoover> *worst
19:40:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I like beige. Wait, do you use dark cobblstone too?
19:40:59 <elliott> *cobblestone
19:41:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Unless you're a tetrachromat, and since that requires you to be female, there's not much chance of that.
19:41:22 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yes.
19:41:36 <Vorpal> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I like beige. Wait, do you use dark cobblstone too? <-- I like beige as well
19:41:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: We are ... no longer friends.
19:41:42 <elliott> Also,
19:41:43 -!- elliott has changed nick to alise.
19:41:45 <alise> TOTALLY FEMALE
19:41:47 -!- alise has changed nick to elliott.
19:41:53 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, _chromosomally_ female.
19:42:07 <elliott> I got chromosome reassignment surgery.
19:42:17 <oklopol> :D
19:42:24 <elliott> And became a tetrachromat in the process!
19:42:40 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, so clearly you regressed to a zygote and regrew?
19:42:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I think that's a fetish, but no.
19:42:56 <elliott> They changed them in-place.
19:43:03 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, your eyes?
19:43:09 <elliott> My chromosomes.
19:43:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Even then.
19:43:16 <elliott> So my eyes changed obviously, because they had new chromosomes now.
19:43:18 <Phantom_Hoover> That's not how biology works.
19:43:31 <elliott> Oh really? Then why am I a tetrachromat?
19:44:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Your body doesn't go "oh, look, the DNA changed. Must bring phenotype up to date, then."
19:44:44 <elliott> Yes it does.
19:44:46 <elliott> "I want Lapis Lazuli ground into a powder for dyes." Ooh...
19:45:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What redstone wire do you use?
19:45:25 <elliott> The ornate one looks cool.
19:45:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I switched to it because I'm a sucker for ornateness.
19:45:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Hopefully you can agree that the Painterly chests and doors are hideous, though.
19:46:01 <elliott> YOU CANNOT DO THAT IN 16 PIXELS WITHOUT LOOKING HIDEOUS
19:46:11 <Phantom_Hoover> The ornate ones?
19:46:22 <elliott> Yes. Which is all of them.
19:46:33 <Vorpal> the light wood ones are good
19:46:38 -!- Wamanuz5 has joined.
19:46:59 <elliott> "Give me Chinese-style windows." UGLIEST
19:47:06 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Which sandstone option is most realistic.
19:47:12 <Phantom_Hoover> I think the chests and doors are nice on the default.
19:47:22 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I went for bricks since I'm used to seeing it used for that.
19:47:31 <elliott> Original cloth of woven cloth?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
19:47:32 <elliott> *or
19:47:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Smooth-topped?
19:47:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Brick topped.
19:48:03 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm considering changing that.
19:48:16 <elliott> Smooth-topped sandstone columns look nice... but I'll stick with the default for now.
19:48:23 <elliott> BUT WHICH CLOTH
19:48:32 <elliott> I think the woven cloth.
19:48:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Stitched-edge.
19:49:06 <fizzie> Personally "I would like BARONS DEF CHARGER'S woven cloth texture", even despite the name.
19:49:16 <elliott> fizzie: That's the one I've been usin' too.
19:49:17 <elliott> "I want a metal creeper insignia ornate monster spawner cage."
19:49:18 <elliott> YES PLEASE.
19:49:35 -!- Wamanuz4 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
19:49:56 <elliott> "Change my wood door into an unstained light wood door." ;; I would use this one if it were darker.
19:50:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Chocolate cake, I hope.
19:51:01 <elliott> "I want my sugar in a bag like civilized people."
19:51:01 <Phantom_Hoover> What? No.
19:51:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Are you even human?
19:51:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Given that cocoa beans are a probable addition.
19:51:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: *The Minecraft cake is chocolate*.
19:51:28 <elliott> Also, the cake in Portal is chocolate.
19:51:34 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, ...it is?
19:51:41 <elliott> To which?
19:51:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Both.
19:52:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Well, Notch *said* it was chocolate, and the sponge is dark enough for it.
19:52:19 <elliott> And yes, the cake in Portal is chocolate.
19:52:20 <elliott> http://theknittingdefective.typepad.com/.a/6a0115714ad401970c011572419026970b-800wi
19:52:32 <elliott> Better shot: http://honestcake.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/portal_and_there_will_be_cake.jpg
19:52:51 <elliott> WHAT PAINTING OPTIONS DO YOU USE
19:52:59 <fizzie> That looks like a plastic cake.
19:53:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Monet.
19:53:07 <elliott> I use pastel bedrock.
19:53:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Urgh, ugly.
19:53:23 -!- pingveno has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
19:53:26 <elliott> "Give me an ink sac, straight from the squid." Disgusting; I'll take the splatter.
19:54:06 <elliott> Fuck you, default choice, my chickens are CHICKENS.
19:54:39 <elliott> People who use glowing-eyed creepers are abortions: discuss.
19:54:54 <Phantom_Hoover> I use glowing-eyed creepers!
19:54:54 <elliott> In fact, people who use anything other than "Give me a Creeper that looks more like the original!" are probably Nazis.
19:55:00 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: YOU ARE THE WORST PERSON.
19:55:20 <elliott> Blue sea squid <3
19:55:30 <elliott> HAPPY CHEST
19:55:32 <elliott> *GHAST
19:55:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Do NOT confuse chests and ghasts.
19:56:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What game cursor do you use.
19:56:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Pixel.
19:56:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I hate you.
19:56:25 <elliott> CROSS DAMMIT CROSS
19:56:36 <Phantom_Hoover> JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS
19:56:41 -!- pingveno has joined.
19:57:11 <elliott> LATEST UPDATE:
19:57:11 <elliott> 1.1.10_01 - Fixed custom water/lava for beta 1.1_02
19:57:17 <elliott> Gee, I wonder if it'll work on 1.2_01.
19:57:19 <elliott> LET'S FIND OUT
19:58:04 <elliott> The custom water/lava options are disabled.
19:58:04 <Phantom_Hoover> It doesn't.
19:58:05 <elliott> I am sad.
19:58:12 <elliott> I'll use default water for now ...
19:58:36 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, but anyway, that basic texture back thing has been taken down because noöne donated to it.
19:58:39 <elliott> I hope whatever's causing that fucked-up side grass goes away.
19:58:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: :-D
19:58:53 <elliott> Oh god, the brick background on the title screen is ugly.
20:00:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: The "radios" are jukeboxes, right?
20:00:23 <oerjan> <elliott> People who use glowing-eyed creepers are abortions: discuss. <Phantom_Hoover> I use glowing-eyed creepers! <-- i am starting to see a trend here...
20:00:32 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover is the worst person.
20:01:01 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I left them as jukeboxes because I am lazy.
20:01:16 <elliott> Ornate dispenser so ugly oh my god
20:01:31 * Phantom_Hoover whistles
20:01:35 <elliott> "I want an industrial simple dispenser." is nice.
20:02:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You at least use "I want cobblestone with larger individual stones.", surely?
20:02:05 <elliott> Not the DEFAULT?
20:02:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
20:02:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Erm, wait.
20:02:22 <elliott> Phew.
20:02:24 <elliott> Oh god.
20:02:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And marble half blocks?
20:02:35 <Phantom_Hoover> No, I use tiles.
20:02:40 <Phantom_Hoover> And marble half-blocks.
20:02:47 <elliott> At least you're human in one area.
20:02:59 <elliott> fizzie: Tell me you agree that Phantom_Hoover's texture pack options are insane.
20:03:02 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover is half-creeper
20:03:16 <j-invariant> 20:05 < AliG> I is here with my man and we ares chattin about something well important, math.
20:03:19 <j-invariant> 20:05 < AliG> What is math?
20:03:21 <j-invariant> elliott
20:03:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "I want to use the flat Painterly lapis lazuli block." yes?
20:03:25 <elliott> j-invariant: xD
20:03:34 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, slab.
20:03:43 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I think you should die.
20:03:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I picked all the dyes in bowls, before you ask.
20:03:53 <elliott> Quickly, in fact.
20:04:02 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: he said die, not dye
20:04:08 <elliott> :D
20:04:31 * Phantom_Hoover swats oerjan ----###
20:04:49 <elliott> GRR, that stupid grass problem hasn't fixed itself. I need to repatch everything.
20:05:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Holy shit, what coal ore do you use, the default dark stone coal ore is amazingly bad.
20:05:16 <elliott> It has... yellow edges...
20:05:43 <oerjan> coal with extra sulphur, clearly
20:05:55 <elliott> mipmapping + painterly = love
20:06:05 <elliott> Game looks fucking amazing.
20:06:34 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I used the default coal ore because it was that or beige or strangely machined coal chunks.
20:07:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Dude, it's grey, not beige.
20:07:46 <elliott> Can I just say now that Painterly dirt tiles terribly.
20:09:09 <ais523> is pastebin.ca down for good?
20:09:16 <ais523> it hasn't worked on any of my recent attempts to access it
20:09:56 <elliott> ais523: i doubt it
20:10:00 <elliott> ais523: it was up only a few days ago
20:10:11 <elliott> ais523: filebin has been down forever, though
20:10:58 <j-invariant> hello
20:11:16 <elliott> ais523: anyway, I implemented tsort for changesets
20:11:26 <elliott> ais523: probably wildly inefficient
20:11:32 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, I have installed Optimine, mipmapping, MCPATCHER, Better Light and Painterly.
20:11:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You don't need mcpatcher.
20:11:43 <elliott> And it's lowercase.
20:11:49 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, why not?
20:11:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Just put it in texturepacks?
20:11:54 <elliott> There's native texture pack support now.
20:11:59 <elliott> mcpatcher is only required for custom water and lava.
20:12:02 <elliott> Which don't work right now.
20:12:04 <elliott> And also HD packs.
20:12:05 <Phantom_Hoover> It still does basic water and lava.
20:12:06 <elliott> Which Painterly is not.
20:12:10 <Phantom_Hoover> (Animations that it.)
20:12:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ...fail.
20:12:15 <Phantom_Hoover> *is
20:12:22 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, it doesn't?
20:12:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Those buttons just make it use the DEFAULT Minecraft water/lava.
20:12:33 <Phantom_Hoover> SO BETRAYED
20:12:34 <elliott> Until custom water/lava are reenabled, mcpatcher does nothing for non-HD packs.
20:12:50 <elliott> Does your side-grass get coloured weirdly, too?
20:13:12 <Phantom_Hoover> That's just Notch-quality engineering.
20:13:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Don't use biome compliance unless you like ugliness.
20:14:20 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I *didn't*.
20:14:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: And it also happened with the default pack.
20:14:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: The problem is that it's colouring the dirt parts too for some reason according to the biome.
20:14:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Default is biome-compliant.
20:15:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Otherwise, I have no idea what you're talking about.
20:15:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: http://i.imgur.com/YlDro.png
20:15:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: See?
20:15:54 <Phantom_Hoover> That's just you.
20:16:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No, that's some mod.
20:16:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, get rid of it!
20:17:05 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I INSTALLED THE SAME MODS AS YOU.
20:17:08 <oklopol> green dirt looks nice imo
20:17:27 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I don't know, then!
20:17:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, you forgot mcregion.
20:17:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Remove bin and try again!
20:18:23 -!- Behold has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory.
20:19:36 <elliott> Fuck yeah, 64+64+20.
20:19:37 <elliott> *clay.
20:19:53 -!- Behold has joined.
20:21:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Respawned - half the clay returned - but still in my inventory - fuck yea
20:21:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Clay is really only good as an æsthetic thing...
20:21:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh wow, it is comical how bad the game looks without mipmapping and Better Light.
20:22:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I think that stint with side-grass-that-looks-like-pure-grass has convinced me that either Better Grass or Painterly's 1/1 grass option are awesome.
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20:23:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Do beaches usually have a ton of brown mushrooms on them?
20:24:04 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
20:24:13 <Phantom_Hoover> But sometimes you get a massive cluster.
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20:25:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Notch hasn't hired Scaevolus yet; discuss.
20:25:28 <augur> http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2wvt/is_this_a_secret_fallout_puzzle_it_looks_like_a/
20:25:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Scaevolus?
20:25:28 <augur> ok
20:25:30 <augur> i dont know
20:25:31 <augur> but
20:25:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: The author of Optimine and mcregion.
20:25:43 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: A part of Optimine was included in 1.2.
20:25:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
20:25:47 <augur> maybe its not a message and is just a bunch of keys for lockers..
20:25:57 <augur> or something like that
20:26:02 <elliott> augur: PSHT WHAT SILLINESS
20:26:40 <augur> also, if it IS a code, surely you could figure it out pretty quickly, at least if it were binary, morse, baudot, ...
20:27:05 <elliott> augur: >expecting intelligence from /r/gaming
20:27:09 <augur> true
20:27:21 <Vorpal> <augur> http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2wvt/is_this_a_secret_fallout_puzzle_it_looks_like_a/ <-- nice myst reference in the comments :D
20:27:27 <augur> yes
20:27:43 <augur> good thing its the first comment so i was guaranteed to see it as i read the comments.
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20:28:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Wait what, MC can still read my McRegion save.
20:28:53 <augur> ok its time to watch some lectures on the russian revolution
20:29:06 <augur> well, more of a discussion
20:29:39 <augur> oh. nevermind. this is boring and short
20:29:39 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, conversion hasn't happened yet?
20:29:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I started a new mcregion game.
20:30:13 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm still getting FPS drops.
20:31:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, I'ma skip Better Grass, since Painterly has an equivalent as a texture option.
20:31:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: (OK, so with Better Grass I'd get 2/3 instead of 1/1 when there's dirt below, but I always thought that looked weird.)
20:31:27 <elliott> Putting dirt below a grass block should not cause it to lose grass!
20:31:49 <augur> elliott: im making a tagging app
20:31:53 <elliott> augur: for what
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20:34:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Dude, I just did it all from scratch.
20:34:11 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
20:34:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Optimine -> McRegion -> Mipmapping -> Better Light, in that order.
20:34:33 <elliott> Side grass dirt is still biome-tinted.
20:34:35 <elliott> hi ais523
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20:35:03 <elliott> ais523: how would you recommend handling the fact that there are different types of change? one type for files (lists of lines), one type for directories (sets of directory entries), etc...
20:35:07 <elliott> in scapegoat
20:35:36 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314.
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20:36:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: *blink* mcpatcher JUST GOT UPDATED.
20:36:49 <elliott> *This very second*.
20:36:54 <elliott> It has custom water/lava now.
20:37:02 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: So tick custom water/lava, detick animated water/lava, and ENJOY
20:37:04 <augur_> sorry, elliott, if you said anything after my response i didnt see it
20:37:05 <augur_> :(
20:37:10 <elliott> <augur> elliott: im making a tagging app
20:37:10 <elliott> <elliott> augur: for what
20:37:32 <augur_> ok so you didnt get my answer
20:37:33 <augur_> what tagged: files, urls, text; what os: mac; what purpose: nothing does precisely what i like
20:37:48 <elliott> i hate tagging.
20:37:58 -!- augur has quit (Disconnected by services).
20:38:05 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
20:38:08 <j-invariant> taggint
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20:38:38 <augur> elliott: oh?
20:39:00 <augur> elliott: how do you organize your ideas and stuff you find interesting and so forth?
20:39:25 <elliott> irc :P ... in practice i use a file system
20:39:29 <elliott> in @ it's basically based on search
20:39:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU, it seems that mcpatcher's custom water/lava overrides mipmapping.
20:40:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: So I'll have to copy the custom files into minecraft.jar myself.
20:41:04 -!- p_q has joined.
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20:42:38 <elliott> OK, here's what I'll do: Optimine -> McRegion -> Mipmapping -> Better Light -> manual copy of custom water files. (If that does in fact work.)
20:42:43 <elliott> Wait.
20:42:47 <elliott> That won't solve the side grass issue.
20:43:04 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: OK, seriously, screenshot some damn side-grass for me, I do not believe that you do not see the issue with these mods.
20:43:13 <augur> elliott: well, i use a file system too, but my organizational habits arent well adapted to file systems
20:43:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What order did you install them in? You realise some of them overwrite the others?
20:43:28 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, no it doesn't.
20:43:33 <elliott> augur: Nobody's are. But nobody likes tagging either, and you'll slip doing it eventually.
20:43:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No it doesn't what?
20:43:44 <augur> elliott: will not! :|
20:43:50 <augur> i used delicious right up to the end
20:43:54 <augur> that was like four years worth
20:44:00 <elliott> delicious still exists, you know
20:44:15 <augur> yeah but its supposedly closing
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20:45:08 <augur> unless they changed their plans
20:45:08 <elliott> augur: no it isn'
20:45:08 <elliott> t
20:45:09 <elliott> yahoo are selling it
20:45:09 <elliott> which has always been the case
20:45:10 <elliott> ITT: believing everything you hear on reddit
20:45:10 <elliott> and then not seeing follow-up posts
20:45:11 <augur> ah ok, well they were supposedly just closing
20:45:12 <augur> either way, i want tags for my files and for ideas too, not just links
20:45:12 <elliott> based on one slide from a presentation that never actually said that.
20:45:13 <elliott> files are useless.
20:45:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Do not what.
20:45:15 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, mipmapping still works.
20:45:33 <augur> elliott: files are useful!
20:45:34 <augur> i have lots of them
20:45:34 <augur> so do you!
20:45:35 <elliott> augur: They are not useful.
20:45:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Please tell me what order you installed mods in.
20:45:44 <augur> why not
20:45:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Also, be aware that I'm using the new mcpatcher which was updated at 8:25 pm.
20:45:54 <elliott> Which is not the version you used.
20:46:35 <elliott> augur: http://catseye.tc/ehird/files-suck.html is a very whiny and very incomplete page, but it's more than you'd get out of me right now while I'm busy bugging Phantom_Hoover.
20:46:36 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I used the mcpatcher which just came out.
20:46:43 <augur> "very whiny"
20:46:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Are you going to give me the order of mods...?
20:46:57 <elliott> augur: Or so I hear. Apparently italics are whiny, I use a lot of them.
20:47:15 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, Optimine, mcregion, mipmapping, Better Light + Grass, mcpatcher.
20:47:17 <augur> i was just commenting more on you commenting your own shit as whiny
20:47:33 <elliott> augur: I didn't think it was whiny until everyone informed me it was. :p
20:47:41 <augur> x3
20:47:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You mean that with Better Grass, which turns all the side of grass blocks into grass, you don't see tinted dirt? HOLY SHIT YOU'RE KIDDING ME
20:47:52 <elliott> HOW AMAZING
20:47:59 <elliott> Maybe that's because there IS NO DIRT?
20:48:04 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, no, erm, no.
20:48:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What.
20:49:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Better Grass leaves some blocks with the default side grass texture.
20:49:15 <Phantom_Hoover> These are fine.
20:49:25 <augur> elliott: MATRIX DIRT?!
20:49:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Screenshot, please. Also, what checkboxes did you tick in mcpatcher?
20:49:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: BTW, I suspect Better Grass is still the culprit, in that it probably overwrites the offending code entirely.
20:49:56 <elliott> augur: Less talking, more reading!
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20:51:21 <augur> elliott: it sounds like you want an Alto.
20:51:39 <elliott> augur: Yes, please.
20:51:43 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined.
20:51:43 <augur> :)
20:51:50 <elliott> augur: (Even Multics, the big behemoth predating Unix, had a form of orthogonal persistence.)
20:51:50 <augur> also, i agree with everything you said.
20:51:55 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:52:06 <elliott> augur: And so you should use @!
20:52:07 <zzo38> Has someone told you that TeXnicard is used by writing Underload-like programs? I will tell you now that it is only partially true.
20:52:10 <augur> whats @
20:52:19 <elliott> augur: My pipe-dream OS of amazingness.
20:52:45 <elliott> augur: It got a remarkably solid design a while ago, which I then completely liquefied by thinking about it some more.
20:52:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: checkboxes!
20:52:57 <zzo38> elliott: Can you use pipes with it?
20:53:03 <elliott> zzo38: No.
20:53:08 <elliott> Strictly forbidden.
20:53:23 <augur> elliott: a friend of mine is creating an OS
20:53:25 <augur> or is mulling it over
20:53:33 <zzo38> elliott: Then why did you call it pipe-dream OS? And how can it be used without pipes?
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20:53:37 <elliott> augur: It's probably shit. @ has features such as being awesome, which is the opposite of the feature of being shit.
20:53:48 <augur> ive been pushing for a completely radical rethinking of how it should work
20:53:49 <elliott> zzo38: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define:pipe-dream
20:53:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Custom water, IIRC.
20:54:04 <elliott> augur: @ is what happens when you radically rethink radical rethinking.
20:54:07 <augur> basically where everything is data-oriented instead of application oriented
20:54:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It is important which animated box you ticked.
20:54:16 <elliott> augur: @ had that from version 0.1...
20:54:16 <j-invariant> outside the box
20:54:23 <augur> elliott: good!
20:54:25 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined.
20:54:29 <elliott> @ is INSIDE THE CARDBOARD COMPRISING THE BOX
20:54:30 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, lava.
20:54:32 <Phantom_Hoover> And fire.
20:54:39 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: But not water? Hmm.
20:54:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: How are you sure that mipmapping still functions?
20:54:47 <augur> elliott: what language are you writing it in?
20:55:11 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yes, because things in the distance look nice.
20:55:16 <elliott> augur: @lang. (I'm not kidding. Both @ and @lang are, of course, placeholder names; @ has also gone by ElliottOS in the past in here.)
20:55:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You could just be blind.
20:55:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: OK, I'll retry in a minute...
20:55:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I still suspect Better Grass, though.
20:55:31 <zzo38> I like to have many commands acting like filters so that you can use pipes for everything.
20:55:40 <augur> elliott: whats @lang like
20:55:47 <elliott> augur: You know Haskell?
20:55:51 <augur> a little!
20:56:08 <elliott> augur: Imagine if Haskell decided to stop being practical and became completely and utterly hardcore, thus ensuring it could never reasonably interact with existing systems.
20:56:13 <elliott> augur: That's @lang.
20:56:30 <augur> i thought haskell WASNT practical :(
20:56:38 <elliott> augur: @ itself is actually written in two languages: x86-64 assembly, and @lang.
20:56:59 <elliott> augur: The assembly includes an efficient, parallel lazy specialiser for @lang (WARNING WARNING OPEN RESEARCH TOPIC WARNING).
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20:57:05 <elliott> augur: This comprises the implementation of @lang.
20:57:14 <augur> k
20:57:18 <elliott> augur: It also has task switching code and the security system.
20:57:27 <elliott> augur: Everything above that, including just about all hardware drivers, are written in @lang.
20:57:45 <elliott> Indeed, in @lang, you can write to any memory address you want, so long as you have permission to.
20:58:02 <elliott> (Of course, you are unlikely to get such blanket permission; drivers will get permission to write to restricted regions of memory if they require it, but little else.)
20:58:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: How much convincing do you need to redo it all without Better Grass to see if that's the cure?
20:59:07 <elliott> augur: You seem like you have lost interest!
20:59:13 <augur> i have.
20:59:20 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, you would actually have to pay me.
20:59:23 <elliott> augur: What did I say. :p
20:59:35 <elliott> augur: Was it "OPEN RESEARCH TOPIC"?
20:59:38 <augur> something other than nothing
20:59:47 <elliott> augur: Gee, thanks?
20:59:49 <augur> no i kid i kid
20:59:58 <augur> you answered the question.
21:00:02 <elliott> ;__; INSUFFICIENTLY
21:00:17 <elliott> augur: But there are so many INTERESTING DESIGN DECISIONS.
21:01:14 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:01:26 <elliott> augur: I'm giving you ammo to make your friend redesign their OS here!
21:02:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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21:02:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
21:02:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:02:33 <augur> not really
21:03:05 <elliott> augur: Psht, your tagging program is the worst ever, then. :p
21:04:14 <augur> ok
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21:06:00 <elliott> augur: I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU
21:06:01 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
21:06:15 <augur> ok?
21:06:20 <elliott> psht!
21:06:30 -!- zzo38 has left (?).
21:06:56 <tswett> elliott is #esoteric.
21:07:04 <elliott> Yes, yes I am.
21:07:14 <tswett> If he were not here, this channel would have no properties in common with the channel as it is.
21:07:26 <tswett> Every predicate true of it now would be false, and vice versa.
21:07:53 <elliott> tswett: So if I left, the channel would not exist?
21:08:12 <elliott> careful, you might say something you Kant
21:08:21 -!- acetoline has joined.
21:08:54 <tswett> It would not exist, and the set of people in it would be the complement of the set of people currently in it.
21:08:59 <elliott> Let's try it out.
21:09:01 -!- elliott has left (?).
21:09:50 <tswett> Of course, the tunes.org logs still log this channel as it would be if elliott were still here.
21:10:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
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21:10:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:10:25 -!- elliott has joined.
21:10:27 <elliott> They do? Drat.
21:10:34 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: you should probably join and then identify, not vice versa.
21:10:36 <Phantom_Hoover> What do?
21:10:44 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, huh?
21:10:47 <tswett> elliott: DUDE THAT WAS AWESOME
21:10:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I have a theory. That theory is that mipmapping doesn't work, at all.
21:10:55 <elliott> tswett: How do you know, you weren't here.
21:10:59 <tswett> Everything false was true and vice versa! Except for some things.
21:11:07 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yes, it does.
21:11:11 <elliott> tswett: Oh wait ... it briefly obeyed the property "is a gigantic space monster that eats everyone".
21:11:12 <tswett> Yes, but the set of people in this channel was equal to {tswett}.
21:11:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It used to! But now it doesn't!
21:11:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: OK, new theory.
21:11:23 <tswett> Of course it did.
21:11:23 <elliott> Mipmapping has to come before McRegion.
21:11:36 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, also, I should point out that I have no control over what XChat does.
21:11:42 <elliott> Yes you do.
21:11:45 <elliott> Specify a server password instead.
21:12:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
21:12:52 <elliott> * Phantom__Hoover (~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric
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21:14:12 <oklopol> does mindmapping have something more to it than categorizing in treeform and being restricted to a small amount of data in nodes?
21:14:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I swear. Mipmapping does nothing.
21:14:21 <elliott> oklopol: no
21:14:21 <oklopol> or
21:14:25 <oerjan> um why would you want to join before identifying, wouldn't that temporarily reveal the cloak
21:14:30 <oklopol> are you talking about something other than the general concept :D
21:14:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, well NOW it does.
21:14:36 <elliott> oerjan: that's what he currently does
21:14:37 <elliott> oklopol: mipmapping
21:14:40 <elliott> not mindmapping
21:14:43 <oklopol> wait what
21:14:48 <elliott> :D
21:14:50 <oklopol> i read that as mindmapping every time
21:14:53 <oklopol> :D
21:14:53 <elliott> it's a 3d graphics thing
21:15:04 <oklopol> was kinda wondering why you'd be suddenly talking about that
21:15:05 <elliott> oklopol: you know when you look at far away stuff on minecraft... actually you don't since you use tiny
21:15:08 <elliott> but if you've ever used far,
21:15:11 <elliott> and if you move your mouse left to right
21:15:13 <elliott> you can see it warp around
21:15:18 <elliott> because of it scaling the texture down
21:15:18 <oklopol> but i wanted to ask the question so didn't feel like googling for what you might actually mean
21:15:25 <elliott> mipmapping just uses less pixels in the texture the further away it is
21:15:28 <elliott> meaning far-away stuff looks nice
21:15:36 <elliott> less detailed, but nicer
21:15:38 <elliott> when looking around
21:15:49 <elliott> (this warping is especially noticeable on the Stairs near spawn on the server)
21:16:04 <oerjan> elliott: was tswett doing that opposite thing when he suggested it, then?
21:16:13 <elliott> oerjan: Phantom_Hoover was suggesting the proper way
21:16:14 <elliott> erm
21:16:17 <elliott> oerjan: tswett was suggesting the proper way
21:16:18 <elliott> to Phantom_Hoover
21:16:23 <elliott> who was doin it rong
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21:16:32 <oklopol> is mipmapping the name of this technique, or some tool?
21:16:34 <elliott> Ilari = Vorpal
21:16:37 <elliott> oklopol: name of the technique
21:16:46 <oklopol> because i think i've heard the term, maybe it was in that one book i read once
21:16:53 <oklopol> anyway that's kind of an obvious thing to do
21:16:55 <elliott> oklopol: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=128995
21:17:02 <elliott> It's not as simple as just activating mip-mapping.
21:17:02 <elliott> Initially it looked really bad because some blocks looked broken.
21:17:02 <elliott> Glass, for instance had black halos and was completely black in the distance.
21:17:02 <elliott> I fixed this by adjusting the alpha testing, so it discards everything with alpha < 0.5 instead of alpha=0.
21:17:02 <elliott> what remains is that glass almost disappears in the distance.
21:17:06 <elliott> Then, water had a purple shade in the distance.
21:17:08 <elliott> The fix for that is somewhat of a compromise: I clamp the mipmapping level so there's always at least one pixel per texture.
21:17:11 <elliott> so technical :P
21:17:15 <elliott> oklopol: oh it improves fps too
21:17:17 <elliott> very slightly
21:17:39 <fizzie> oklopol: The name is also derived from latin, so the technique is doubly awesome.
21:17:55 <elliott> are you sure :P
21:18:07 <oklopol> it's not really a technique, it's an obvious thing to do
21:18:17 <fizzie> It also eats a bit more texture memory, but, well, nowadays cards seem to have gigabytes of it.
21:18:19 <elliott> oh indeed it is
21:18:25 <oklopol> where does it come from
21:18:34 <elliott> fizzie: do you still use tronic
21:18:39 <elliott> okIn 3D computer graphics texture filtering, MIP maps (also mipmaps) are pre-calculated, optimized collections of images that accompany a main texture, intended to increase rendering speed and reduce aliasing artifacts. They are widely used in 3D computer games, flight simulators and other 3D imaging systems. The technique is known as mipmapping. The letters "MIP" in the name are an acronym of the Latin phrase multum in parvo, meaning "much in a
21:18:39 <elliott> small space". Mipmaps need more space in memory. They also form the basis of wavelet compression.
21:18:40 <elliott> oklopol: In 3D computer graphics texture filtering, MIP maps (also mipmaps) are pre-calculated, optimized collections of images that accompany a main texture, intended to increase rendering speed and reduce aliasing artifacts. They are widely used in 3D computer games, flight simulators and other 3D imaging systems. The technique is known as mipmapping. The letters "MIP" in the name are an acronym of the Latin phrase multum in parvo, meaning "muc
21:18:41 <elliott> h in a small space". Mipmaps need more space in memory. They also form the basis of wavelet compression.
21:18:47 <elliott> worst name ever
21:18:50 <elliott> MUCH IN A SMALL SPACE MAPS
21:18:55 <oklopol> i was thinking i'd pay a couple thousand for a computer in february, SO I NEVER HAVE TO BUY A NEW ONE AGAIN
21:19:01 <oklopol> i hope there isn't a flaw in my logic
21:19:08 <fizzie> About gigabytes, or about it using more?
21:19:14 <oerjan> elliott: <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: you should probably join and then identify, not vice versa.
21:19:15 <elliott> oklopol: i can get parts for you, i'm GOOD at that!
21:19:23 <elliott> oklopol: i didn't do it for Phantom_Hoover because his budget was lame
21:19:27 <oklopol> i'm already paying a friend to do that
21:19:27 <elliott> but a couple thousand euros i could do a lot with
21:19:30 <elliott> DARN
21:19:30 -!- Vorpal has joined.
21:19:35 <elliott> but i'll do it for free, and am more awesome?
21:19:43 <elliott> you're killing small businesses
21:19:44 <elliott> that work for free
21:19:45 <elliott> like me
21:19:46 <oklopol> he would do it for free
21:19:49 <elliott> or is it working for free that's killing us
21:19:50 <elliott> i'm not sure
21:19:55 <elliott> oerjan: Oh. Weird.
21:20:35 <fizzie> elliott: I haven't tried MC post the 1.2 update at all; so I'm not sure how to answer. Theoretically speaking "yes, I'm still using Tronic"; but on the other hand the updater will wipe that, so maybe "no" is closer.
21:21:01 <elliott> fizzie: Well, only very few packs are updated for the beta, but yeah that was what I meant (are you using it as of last time you played).
21:21:10 -!- Ilari_antrcomp has joined.
21:21:22 <fizzie> I was, yes.
21:21:36 <elliott> "Information wants to be free!" -- obnoxious. slogan.
21:21:42 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
21:22:02 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: OK, hypothesis. Mipmapping only works the first time you load a world.
21:22:11 <oerjan> elliott: he _was_ talking about predicates reversing truth value at about the same time though
21:22:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: This theory holds up so far.
21:22:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ADDITIONAL FACT: Side-grass only looks weird in some biomes.
21:22:59 -!- BMG has joined.
21:23:03 <elliott> Travel to another, I bet you'll see the tinting.
21:23:06 <elliott> A foresty one.
21:23:20 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, why is it that mipmapping makes ladders white?
21:23:27 <elliott> What.
21:23:37 <elliott> Anyway, canya travel to another biome for me?
21:23:56 <elliott> Or even just compare grass block above dirt block.
21:23:59 <elliott> The dirt will *not* be the same colour.
21:25:03 -!- BMG has quit (Changing host).
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21:27:09 <Phantom_Hoover> http://imgur.com/gkWnC
21:27:13 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH
21:27:36 <elliott> I blame Better Grass and holy shit whatever that four-block thing is, it is hideous, is that cobble?
21:27:47 <elliott> Get rid of that.
21:28:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Your 1/1-side-grass is seemingly not mip mapped.
21:28:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Eh?
21:28:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Look at the side grass in the distance.
21:28:42 <elliott> Compare with the top grass.
21:28:46 <elliott> Ho ho. Better Grass does indeed fix things.
21:29:02 <Phantom_Hoover> ...And?
21:29:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Looks mipmapped to me.
21:29:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Stuff in the distance is fine.
21:29:29 <elliott> The side of grass blocks aren't.
21:29:35 <elliott> Oh wait, they are.
21:29:38 <elliott> Verified locally.
21:32:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Views like this make me want biome-compliant grass working properly on the side. Badly. http://ompldr.org/vNzA1Nw
21:32:14 <elliott> (WARNING: PRETTY)
21:33:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover exploded from the pretty.
21:33:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:35:10 <elliott> fizzie: You get to appreciate it, then: http://ompldr.org/vNzA1Nw
21:37:46 * fizzie explodes too.
21:38:57 <elliott> fizzie: How much is it bothering you that I didn't pick up the pumpkins beforehand?
21:46:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:47:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Guest93753.
21:48:30 <elliott> Hello, Guest93753.
21:48:43 <elliott> fizzie: Can you please please please get ineiros to the requisite level of drunkenness to update to the stock beta server tonight?
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21:49:06 -!- Guest93753 has joined.
21:49:41 -!- Guest93753 has changed nick to Phantom__Hoover.
21:49:45 <elliott> phantom ho kekekekekeke
21:50:37 <fizzie> elliott: I was supposed to, on Friday, but he went and got some sort of a flu thing and was too feverish for that.
21:50:43 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: I just can't stop taking screenshots... http://ompldr.org/vNzA1Yg This is how Minecraft should come by default.
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21:50:50 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Fast, CPU-friendly, and absurdly pretty.
21:51:11 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, I still get the FPS drops even with mcregion.
21:51:15 <elliott> Now we just need shader-powered colour light, like in that beautiful screenshot of the unreleased shader with red redstone torch light...
21:51:21 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Well, it can't be perfect.
21:51:29 <elliott> But I definitely couldn't play with all these fancy mods seamlessly before.
21:51:39 <j-invariant> huh?
21:51:43 <elliott> j-invariant: ?
21:51:44 <j-invariant> something to make minecrafpt faster?
21:51:51 <elliott> j-invariant: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=132717
21:51:54 <elliott> j-invariant: and also install mcregion:
21:51:58 <elliott> j-invariant: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=120160
21:52:07 <j-invariant> i want these graphics :D
21:52:09 <elliott> j-invariant: (updates will make your saves inaccessible but there's a conversion tool so you can use them)
21:52:18 <elliott> j-invariant: those graphics are what me and Phantom__Hoover just got working basically :P
21:52:27 <elliott> j-invariant: how good is your gpu/cpu?
21:52:33 <elliott> j-invariant: do you play on Far/Fancy?
21:52:43 <j-invariant> dunno
21:52:43 <j-invariant> no
21:52:53 <elliott> j-invariant: can you do Far/Fancy without your computer lagging?
21:52:57 <elliott> failing that, Normal/Fancy?
21:53:08 <fizzie> Far/Dandy.
21:53:15 <elliott> if you can't play Normal/Fancy smoothly, it's very unlikely you'll be able to get all these mods working smoothly, even with optimine and mcregion
21:53:25 <elliott> although mipmapping helps a bit
21:54:22 <elliott> j-invariant: basically: Install Optimine; install McRegion; install mipmapping; install Better Light and Better Grass; use mcpatcher on a customised Painterly Pack, check Custom Water, Animated Lava and Animated Fire, decheck the rest. If you have problems with any step in this just ask me for help. :p
21:54:45 <elliott> I have to say, it's well worth it.
21:54:57 <j-invariant> ty
21:55:05 <elliott> Also playing fullscreened helps for prettiness. :p
21:55:20 <elliott> j-invariant: the checkboxes in mcpatcher are very unintuitive btw but those are the options you want
21:57:43 <ineiros> elliott: Might update in the morning.
21:58:00 <elliott> ineiros: It's very, very early morning!
21:58:11 <elliott> ineiros: BTW, after this last hMod release, there'll be no more.
21:58:30 <elliott> It's all going to the "super-fancy" vapourware pre-pre-pre-alpha Bukkit.
21:58:38 <fizzie> It's past midnight here, so it qualifies as a morning.
21:58:43 <elliott> ineiros: See?
21:58:46 <elliott> You should update RIGHT NOW
21:59:05 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Problem solved. Starting a world in full-screen doesn't do mipmapping. Seriously.
21:59:07 <elliott> Wtf. :p
21:59:55 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODzO7Lz_pw
22:00:01 <Phantom__Hoover> MC IRL with a toaster.
22:00:43 <elliott> TED talks overstep my upsettingly-short attention span.
22:00:46 <elliott> Sorry.
22:02:40 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: 50-60 fps standing still, 30-40 fps moving. Booyah.
22:03:01 <Phantom__Hoover> TL;DR: it takes the best part of human civilisation as it presently stands to make a toaster.
22:03:30 <elliott> Heh.
22:03:37 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Wait. You don't use view bobbing, do you?
22:03:42 <Phantom__Hoover> I do.
22:03:42 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, I watched that video. Awesome.
22:03:49 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: ... how do you live with yourself?
22:04:09 <Phantom__Hoover> It looks so mechanical when you just glide over the ground.
22:06:40 -!- Behold has joined.
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22:08:28 -!- charlvn has joined.
22:08:46 <Phantom__Hoover> I love the way he uses moulds made of a log.
22:09:18 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: 16 PUMPKINS IN ONE FIELD
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22:11:28 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:11:32 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: I'm trying out a new playstyle.
22:11:36 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined.
22:11:50 <zzo38> Hopefully now it will not disconnect due to server problem.
22:11:52 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Mariner.
22:12:15 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: I spend my time in the ocean, searching out new lands; in the day, I land on them, take useful materials, and sail on.
22:12:40 <zzo38> elliott: Do you mean, you steal them?
22:12:45 <elliott> What?
22:12:49 <elliott> Steal what?
22:13:08 <zzo38> Steal the materials.
22:13:18 <elliott> zzo38: Nobody has laid claim to them, so how can it be stealing?
22:13:41 <zzo38> elliott: Are you sure?
22:13:55 <zzo38> Don't be so sure.
22:14:07 <elliott> zzo38: There are no houses, or indeed any signs of building, or any change to the landscape at all; no signs; nothing.
22:14:19 <elliott> So if someone has laid claim to them, they haven't exactly made it explicit.
22:14:21 <zzo38> And what kind of materials are they?
22:14:33 <elliott> Wood from trees. Coal. Iron. Stone.
22:15:07 <zzo38> Well, don't steal too much of them, otherwise it will become empty and the trees and stuff can be important.
22:15:20 <elliott> zzo38: I replant the saplings from the trees so that more grow.
22:15:48 <zzo38> elliott: OK. But please do not cut *all* the trees at once, at least!!
22:15:54 <elliott> I don't.
22:15:59 <zzo38> Good.
22:16:51 <Phantom__Hoover> http://davepenguin.imgur.com/the_candle
22:19:12 <elliott> Seen it. It is cool.
22:20:06 <Phantom__Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3kRGx--e-w
22:20:08 <Phantom__Hoover> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
22:20:30 <impomatic> Has anyone played A.I. Wars?
22:22:12 <zzo38> impomatic: I have not. I do not know what that is.
22:22:22 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1: Good lord. Spiders can swim. I only hope that my boat can outrun these abominable creatures. There is wonderful land to the side of me, but I cannot stop now; there will be others like it, I am sure. For now, I approach morning ... as fast as my boat will take me.
22:22:26 <elliott> OH MAN THIS IS SO CHEESY I LOVE IT
22:22:29 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: ISN'T IT
22:22:58 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, Minecraft LPs: SO YESTERDAY
22:23:05 <Phantom__Hoover> OOLITE LPs ARE WHERE IT'S AT
22:23:14 <Phantom__Hoover> NOTE: THERE IS ONLY ONE OOLITE LP AND IT'S CRAP
22:23:19 <impomatic> zzo38: it's some kind of programming game with robotic insects and 3d graphics, I don't know much about it - http://programminggames.org/AIWars-The-Insect-Mind.ashx
22:23:54 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum: A perfectly square hole in the world, down to lands of lava and void. What hath God wrought upon this sea? Have I tread into curséd waters?
22:24:03 <elliott> (Chunk loading error)
22:24:07 <Phantom__Hoover> Ah, right.
22:24:09 <Phantom__Hoover> SAIL ONTO IT
22:24:15 <oklopol> Phantom__Hoover: btw that toaster thing is exactly what i meant by this being an utterly uninteresting world, it takes a fuckload of work to make it interesting!
22:24:30 <oklopol> but i suppose that work has been done already, so maybe i should complain less
22:24:42 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: No. :p
22:25:19 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 2: There are beasts frozen in a permanent expression of horror, made out of unearthly materials, stalking me silently. I am losing my faith.
22:26:09 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, squid?
22:26:25 <elliott> Creepers.
22:27:06 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 3: A forest alight. If the unholy creatures did not dwell nearby, I would inspect. Perhaps they did this. There is no land ahead of me that I can see.
22:27:17 <elliott> *ablaze
22:27:26 <Phantom__Hoover> Lava?
22:29:23 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: No.
22:30:22 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 4: Never so fast have I tried to eliminate dirt as when I saw I was careering towards it. I did not get out; I knew the skeletal archers must have been watching me intently. But now my boat is a pile of wood and I am alone in the night. I am not even sure I have the wood to repair it.
22:30:56 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, MC really needs better oceans.
22:31:09 <Phantom__Hoover> The crappy little lakes it has now don't cut it.
22:32:26 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night 1, addendum 5: I hastily built a workbench and my boat again; thank God I had the materials. And I even managed to remove my workbench, but as I removed the few remaining blocks of dirt to allow me to pass them with the possibility of return if, as I suspect, it was a dead end, a zombie appeared next to me, after slinking up unnoticed. My boat is in the water but I am not in it, and I fear that the zombie wil
22:32:26 <elliott> l soon decimate my health. I am at a loss.
22:33:19 <Phantom__Hoover> http://www.universetoday.com/20671/ion-shield-for-interplanetary-spaceships-now-a-reality/
22:33:27 <Phantom__Hoover> Effing science journalists.
22:33:36 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: EXCUSE ME I REQUIRE ADVICE?
22:33:37 <Phantom__Hoover> Wait, no.
22:33:40 <Phantom__Hoover> Effing Redditors.
22:33:45 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: "The USS Enterprise has many uses for its deflector shields, including repelling the Borg (Paramount Pictures)"
22:33:50 <elliott> --caption
22:33:57 <Phantom__Hoover> OK, effing science journalists.
22:34:12 <Deewiant> Why not both?
22:34:24 <Phantom__Hoover> Yes, both!
22:34:48 <Phantom__Hoover> I can kill a few when I murder Sgeo's father and stepmother.
22:35:02 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: CAPTAIN'S LOG, night, addendum 6: Braaaiiiins. Braiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins... everything is so much better now... braaaaiins... the sea restricts movement, it is no place I want to be ... all I desire ... is FLESH...
22:35:08 <elliott> (I died.)
22:35:24 <nooga> what
22:35:34 <elliott> nooga: A zombie killed me while I played a mariner.
22:36:37 <j-invariant> > 1 + 1
22:36:38 <lambdabot> 2
22:36:54 <elliott> j-invariant: yes, you can rely on haskell's arithmetic procedures working
22:36:59 <elliott> even if they're not proven :D
22:37:09 <nooga> #esoteric: bunch of smart computer wizzards playing with blocks like small boys + some audience
22:37:29 <elliott> nooga: you forgot the small boy playing with blocks like a small boy
22:37:37 <nooga> oh yes, me
22:37:41 <elliott> :-D
22:37:43 <nooga> irrelevant
22:38:03 <elliott> nooga: bought the damn game yet? I need slaves.
22:38:45 <nooga> no, i'm busy finding this lapis
22:38:50 <j-invariant> lol
22:40:41 <nooga> elliott: just make some TNT and use it for digging
22:40:52 <elliott> nooga: we already have shitloads of TNT
22:40:55 <elliott> the problem is, it's not nearly enough
22:40:59 <elliott> we've used up almost 9 stacks
22:41:03 <elliott> or even more, actually
22:41:10 <elliott> nooga: and it's still only a tiny, tiny corner
22:41:12 <elliott> that isn't even all down to bedrock
22:41:18 <elliott> also, we need help draining, too
22:41:57 <oklopol> by nine stacks, sure you mean 9 boxes? i have at least a big box full of 9 boxes of exploded tnt
22:42:04 <oklopol> *surely
22:42:24 <elliott> oklopol: xD
22:42:26 <elliott> yeah cuz you can stack boxes
22:42:28 <elliott> as we all know
22:42:40 <oklopol> when you say stack boxes, surely you mean box boxes
22:42:47 <elliott> actually it would be nice if you could put chests in chests... not chests in inventory obviously
22:42:52 <elliott> but chests in chests, nested only one level
22:42:53 <elliott> would be like
22:42:56 <elliott> a one-chest storage solution for life
22:43:14 <elliott> ofc stacking chests works
22:43:15 <oklopol> you should be able to make a backpack
22:43:16 <elliott> with a scrollbar
22:43:18 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, you *can* put chests in chests.
22:43:22 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: _with items_
22:43:24 <oklopol> that lets you store more stuff
22:43:27 <elliott> so one 64-stack of chests is as good as 64 chests
22:43:27 <oklopol> the inventory is smallllllll
22:43:33 <olsner> <oklopol> you should be able to make a backpack with a scrollbar
22:43:36 <elliott> and one large chest of 64-stacks of chests could store EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE
22:43:58 <elliott> oklopol: what i would really like to see is the held-item bar being redesigned.
22:44:09 <elliott> oklopol: there you should just be four rows of inventory, and at the end of each row, scrolling past gives you the next one
22:44:11 <oklopol> surely you mean it could sore a big box full of universes?
22:44:11 <elliott> and it wraps around
22:44:16 <oklopol> *store
22:44:18 <elliott> so you don't have to fucking drag things down and up all the time
22:45:33 <oklopol> i'm trying to respond but i'm not sure what to surely-you-mean
22:45:49 <elliott> oklopol: :D
22:46:11 <elliott> oklopol: surely you mean you should be able to scroll through the contents of infinite universes in the bottom bar
22:46:29 <oklopol> by bottom bar, surely you mean a big box of bottom bars?
22:46:53 <oklopol> i have at least 3 big boxes of bottom bars in my base
22:46:54 <elliott> maybe the inventory should just be displayed in a sidebar
22:47:04 <elliott> in a square
22:47:08 <elliott> and you enter two digits, row then col, to select an item
22:47:21 <elliott> also it'd have the 2x2 crafting there
22:47:28 <elliott> and uh
22:47:29 <elliott> your picture
22:47:33 <elliott> and the armour stuff
22:48:26 <oklopol> i'd like mc more if instead of objects, you'd have big boxes full of objects, like you know use the chest icon as the icon of every object and name object x "a bix bog of x's"
22:48:37 <elliott> :D
22:48:55 <elliott> oklopol: or you could just make stacks go up to 1728
22:48:57 <elliott> which is equivalent
22:48:58 <elliott> oh wait
22:49:00 <elliott> that's for a small chest
22:49:11 <elliott> oklopol: 3456 (omg that's ASCENDING)
22:49:14 <elliott> 3, 4, 5, 6 ?!£NRjhkflghvmkjg
22:49:15 <elliott> pojmklgtr
22:49:15 <oklopol> LOL, small chest... surely you mean a bix box of small chests
22:49:27 <elliott> bix box, is that like weetabix
22:49:36 <oklopol> erm
22:49:41 <oklopol> sorry
22:49:43 <oklopol> by bix box
22:49:52 <oklopol> i of course meant a big box of bix boxes.
22:50:16 <Ilari> Heh... "New" indications on IETF I-Ds are based on date. That resulted obsolete version of I-D having "new" indiction.
22:50:42 <elliott> oklopol: ah, so infinite storage?
22:50:42 <oklopol> Ilari: surely you mean it's based on a big box of dates?
22:50:52 <oklopol> i should stop this before it stops being funny
22:50:54 <oklopol> well
22:51:02 <elliott> oklopol: you're actually a big box of oklopols, right?
22:51:07 <oklopol> not really a danger of that anytime soon
22:51:12 <oklopol> but you know, in a couple of days
22:51:57 <oklopol> elliott: by a big box of oklopols, surely you mean a big box of big boxes of oklopols? i have like 5 big boxes of big boxes of oklopols in my base
22:52:06 <elliott> oklopol: friendly word of advice
22:52:10 <elliott> oklopol: DEAR GOD NEVER LET THEM ESCAPE
22:52:14 <oklopol> :D
22:52:21 <oklopol> true
22:52:31 <oklopol> i should certainly not let them escape
22:52:35 <oklopol> but can i ask you something?
22:52:37 <elliott> yes
22:52:44 <oklopol> when you say friendly word of advice
22:52:54 <oklopol> surely you mean a big box of friendly words of advice?
22:52:55 <oklopol> i mean
22:52:57 <elliott> :D
22:53:00 <elliott> absolutely.
22:53:06 <oklopol> i have like 7 big boxes of friendly words of advice in my base.
22:53:08 <elliott> whole BOOKS of advice.
22:53:14 <elliott> whole big boxes of books of advice.
22:53:22 <oklopol> by whole books of advice, i should probably go to sleep
22:53:59 <elliott> oklopol: what do you call it when you start a new world, walk around for most of the day, take in the sights, explore tons, build something small, die much much later, respawn, and find out that you built that thing at spawn?
22:54:05 <elliott> i can't walk in straight lines :D
22:54:42 <Gregor> http://9gag.com/gag/29876/ THEY'VE FOUND OUR SECRET
22:55:03 <elliott> :D
22:55:30 <oklopol> elliott: you call that the circle of life
22:55:32 <elliott> Gregor: I don't remember anything about ear juice in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.
22:55:47 <elliott> btw guys
22:55:48 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:55:51 <elliott> ugliest logo ever?
22:55:58 <elliott> ugliest box ever? with the logo at both sides, flipped on one
22:55:59 <Gregor> elliott: That's because we'd kept it a secret even through then, but now the damned Chinese have found it!
22:56:01 <Phantom__Hoover> Yes.
22:56:17 <elliott> seriously, every time i go to wp i'm like "wait this isn't wp, what the fuck is that logo"
22:56:22 <elliott> "... oh. it's wp."
22:56:26 <Phantom__Hoover> Their special content is a big picture of Jimbo.
22:56:31 <elliott> I KNOW
22:56:53 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: the filename is best though
22:56:56 <elliott> File:Jimmy Wales Fundraiser Appeal edit.jpg
22:57:01 <elliott> yep, let's feature that
22:57:10 <Phantom__Hoover> Gregor, can I clarify a point here?
22:57:22 <Gregor> Phantom__Hoover: I doubt it :P
22:57:33 <Phantom__Hoover> Is Jew's ear Juice juice squeezed from a Jew's ear or juice that Jews pour into their ears?
22:57:37 <Phantom__Hoover> IT'S AMBIGUOUS
22:57:45 <elliott> Both.
22:57:51 <Gregor> Oh good. Then they still don't REALLY know the secret.
22:57:53 <Gregor> *WHEW*
22:57:59 <oklopol> wales must really like his face
22:58:00 <elliott> Ear juice back and forth, forever.
22:58:05 <elliott> oklopol: it's so beautiful
22:58:33 <elliott> You know what the most useful thing about the NVIDIA X Server Settings is?
22:58:33 <oklopol> well it is a loveable face, if that guy tried to sell me a vacuum cleaner, i'd buy the hell out of it
22:58:42 <elliott> It lets you enable a cursor shadow!
22:58:43 <elliott> Fuck yeah!
22:58:47 <elliott> That's the one thing I missed from Windows.
22:59:19 <Phantom__Hoover> <oklopol> wales must really like his face ← naw, it doesn't look like a sheep's at all.
22:59:39 <Ilari> Heck... I think IANA IPv4 depletion will be all over the net (and not just reedit).
22:59:41 <oklopol> LOL i get the reference :DDDDDDDDDDDDDd
23:00:02 <Ilari> At least every blog related to IPv6 or IPv4 depletion.
23:00:18 <oklopol> Ilari: what's ipv4?
23:00:24 <oklopol> is it some sort of sports thing
23:00:40 <elliott> :D
23:01:07 <elliott> fizzie: can you not download mc skins??
23:01:10 <elliott> i want to back mine up
23:01:11 <oklopol> ages ago, i decided i'd add something to all this ipv4 humble and jumble that's been going around on the channel
23:01:14 <oklopol> and now i did
23:01:14 <elliott> or wait
23:01:17 <elliott> what's the path to the png file?
23:01:17 <oklopol> and i feel a proud.
23:01:18 <elliott> anyone know?
23:02:02 <cheater-> hi
23:02:04 <cheater-> sup?
23:02:25 <oklopol> no, this lattice is not complete
23:02:31 <elliott> foundit
23:03:19 <Ilari> Of the two major IPv4 depletion estimates, the more pessimistic one is now in "any moment now" mode. The another gives less than a month left...
23:03:44 <elliott> Ilari: how long until RIR depletion?
23:03:45 <Phantom__Hoover> Woo, civilisation ends!
23:04:06 <Phantom__Hoover> LET'S HAVE A PARTY
23:04:10 <Phantom__Hoover> \o/
23:04:10 <myndzi> |
23:04:10 <myndzi> >\
23:05:06 <oklopol> i wonder how long it would take to make an ipv4 protocol from scratch
23:05:12 -!- MrPhone has joined.
23:05:44 <oklopol> maybe i should do a ted talk on that
23:06:17 <MrPhone> This is variable; curious does have any (good) graphics libraries?
23:06:21 <Ilari> That's difficult to estimate. Especially due publicity from IANA depletion... I hope that one graph I saw was misleading due to incorrect data processing...
23:06:21 <Phantom__Hoover> Someone tell me how I subscribe to RSS feeds with Chrome.
23:06:35 <Phantom__Hoover> MrPhone, we have esoteric graphics libraries.
23:06:38 <Phantom__Hoover> Well, not really.
23:06:46 <MrPhone> Phantom - extension
23:07:00 <Phantom__Hoover> We have that non-Euclidean raytracer which I have not been working on solidly for about 6 months.
23:07:22 <MrPhone> I meant haskell
23:07:39 <Phantom__Hoover> Oh, right.
23:07:41 <elliott> MrPhone: Like, what?
23:07:44 <elliott> MrPhone: There's an SDL binding.
23:07:44 <Ilari> Non-Euclidean? Elliptic and Hyperbolic geometries? Or just General Relativity?
23:07:46 <Phantom__Hoover> I can't help you there.
23:07:56 <Phantom__Hoover> Ilari, GR? Hahahahahahahahahano.
23:08:00 <MrPhone> Does haskell have something like tk or gtk?
23:08:09 <Phantom__Hoover> It's not raytraceable for a start.
23:08:14 <j-invariant> MrPhone: GTK
23:08:14 <elliott> MrPhone: gtk2hs is a binding to gtk.
23:08:26 <elliott> MrPhone: There's also Qt, I think... and Cocoa
23:08:33 <elliott> MrPhone: Protip
23:08:36 <Phantom__Hoover> And I don't even understand what the objects half of GR's equations rely on are so...
23:08:39 <elliott> MrPhone: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html
23:08:44 <elliott> MrPhone: Look at the categories :)
23:08:57 <elliott> MrPhone: But what you want is a GUI toolkit, not a graphics library.
23:09:18 <elliott> MrPhone: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Gtk2Hs Gtk2Hs is your best bet.
23:09:27 <elliott> MrPhone: It's widely-used, well-maintained, and I gather has a decent API.
23:09:31 <MrPhone> Will look later -on phone now due to busted internet
23:09:59 <elliott> Of course it's not "perfect" as its use is mostly imperative/object oriented since Gtk is, but hey, it's not like you'd write all of your program in IO anyway.
23:09:59 <Phantom__Hoover> Ilari, FWIW, I was kind of hoping that I'd be able to get it to do hyperbolic and elliptical geometries and maybe if thins turned out really well some arbitrary manifolds.
23:10:07 <MrPhone> And thanks for the reference
23:10:13 <elliott> There are some experimental projects to do purely-functional GUIs, but they're not really mature enough to use in practice.
23:10:27 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: fizzie: I have a new skin and it's even more beautiful than my last one: http://minecraft.net/skin/skin.jsp?user=ehird
23:10:31 <Ilari> Oh yeah, GR includes SR and SR is dynamic.
23:10:44 <MrPhone> Ty elliot
23:11:13 <elliott> j-invariant: did you get those mods installed?
23:11:15 <elliott> MrPhone: Two Ts! :-)
23:11:18 <j-invariant> elliott: no
23:11:19 <Phantom__Hoover> I fell at the first stumbling block of not actually understanding how geodesic rays are calculated.
23:11:27 <elliott> j-invariant: aw, did you not bother or was there a problem
23:11:36 <j-invariant> elliott: I' going to do it later
23:11:41 <elliott> ok :)
23:11:45 <j-invariant> the java doens't work :(
23:11:46 <fizzie> elliott: Very rainbowy. (And yes, the URLs the client prints out don't seem to work for any old web browser; I don't know if it's about request headers or something.)
23:11:48 <j-invariant> user=ehird
23:11:54 <j-invariant> It's just a grey box FURPDKPDR
23:11:55 <elliott> fizzie: Worked for me, I just wgetted it.
23:11:56 <MrPhone> Elliott - no tab completion
23:12:02 <elliott> j-invariant: you have no java plugin :P
23:12:06 <elliott> MrPhone: hehe ok
23:12:16 <elliott> j-invariant: preview: http://minecraft.net/skin/ehird.png
23:12:17 <j-invariant> oh there we go
23:12:18 <elliott> just imagine that warped
23:12:19 <elliott> ah
23:12:33 -!- MrPhone has quit (Quit: Phone).
23:12:34 <j-invariant> that't cool
23:12:50 <elliott> fizzie: Did you see how Notch is offering pirated versions of Minecraft due to his own incompetence?
23:14:05 <elliott> You know, variable has been converted to the Functional Order rather well.
23:15:06 <j-invariant> aw
23:16:46 <Sgeo> I could be in a better mood right now
23:16:52 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, he wasn't in the Functional Order before?
23:16:57 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, did you elope with KT-AT?
23:16:59 <elliott> Sgeo: Did KT AT not show up *again*?
23:17:03 <Sgeo> She showed up
23:17:09 <elliott> And...
23:17:11 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: No, I convinced him to learn Haskell.
23:17:17 <Sgeo> But my happiness is pretty much entirely eclipsed by a belief she holds
23:17:23 <elliott> Astrology?
23:17:25 <elliott> Christianity?
23:17:25 <Phantom__Hoover> That the Earth is flat?
23:17:26 <elliott> Tooth fairy?
23:17:30 <elliott> Homeopathy?
23:17:32 <Phantom__Hoover> That P=NP?
23:17:35 <elliott> That sugar is imaginary?
23:17:37 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: OMG
23:17:39 <elliott> don't even joke about that
23:17:43 <elliott> that's just sick
23:17:49 <Sgeo> elliott, none of those are potentially lethal [I started typing this before you mentioned homeopathy]
23:17:54 <Phantom__Hoover> That ZFC is inconsistent?
23:17:56 <elliott> Sgeo: Breatharianism?
23:17:57 <elliott> Say yes.
23:18:00 <elliott> Please to god say yes.
23:18:14 <fizzie> A real-life breatharianist would be the awesome.
23:18:19 <elliott> fizzie: They do exist, you know.
23:18:19 <fizzie> elliott: No, I didn't.
23:18:25 <Sgeo> That Vitamin C can essentially cure cancer, and chemotherapy is essentially vitamin C.
23:18:29 <elliott> Sgeo: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
23:18:34 <elliott> You dodged a bullet, my friend.
23:18:43 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, get access to her perfume.
23:18:44 <Sgeo> And this is the LAST person I'd expect to hold such a belief
23:18:47 <Phantom__Hoover> Fill it with benzene.
23:18:57 * elliott notes to self: never let Phantom__Hoover near anyone I love.
23:19:03 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: hey don't dis that, Dick Lipton believes P=NP. maybe.
23:19:11 <Phantom__Hoover> oerjan, I want P=NP!
23:19:11 <elliott> oerjan: t'was a joke
23:19:20 <elliott> fizzie: The client downloads minecraft.jar?auth=...&..., but you can actually just elide the ? and everything after and it lets you download it.
23:19:31 <elliott> fizzie: Notch quality protection.
23:19:34 <j-invariant> people actually beleive P=NP? not just to be contrary?
23:19:35 <Sgeo> Shortly after I met her, I was _convinced_ that she wouldn't hold such a belief
23:19:36 <elliott> I can't wait for the Mojang condom.
23:19:45 <elliott> j-invariant: Dick Lipton :-P
23:20:13 <elliott> Sgeo: There are plenty of females in the universe ... and most of them don't even believe that Vitamin C causes cancer.
23:20:22 <Sgeo> elliott, you read what I said wrong
23:20:26 <Sgeo> Or you mistyped
23:20:29 <elliott> Sgeo: I'm saying that it isn't a big deal :P
23:20:31 <elliott> Erm.
23:20:31 <elliott> *cures
23:20:39 <elliott> Sgeo: But I am kind of upset, because now I have to start preparing another silly name...
23:20:57 <Sgeo> The thing is, you wouldn't expect a cancer survivor to hold such a belief
23:21:22 <elliott> X-D
23:21:29 <elliott> Doged. A. Bullet.
23:21:32 <elliott> Literally.
23:21:36 <elliott> She probably shoots people for fun.
23:21:41 <elliott> Bullets cure cancer.
23:21:44 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, benzene.
23:21:52 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: the "maybe" is part of his belief, though.
23:22:13 <Vorpal> <fizzie> A real-life breatharianist would be the awesome. <-- what do they believe?
23:22:16 <elliott> Sgeo: So, so, wait, what cured her -- did she drink a lot of orange juice and it cleared itself up?
23:22:27 <elliott> Or was it, uh, lots of medical expertise and chemotherapy?
23:22:42 <Sgeo> She got chemo. She's not against regular medicine
23:22:48 <elliott> Sgeo: *real medicine
23:22:52 <oerjan> Sgeo: hey maybe she's the reincarnation of Linus Pauling. that would be cool. sort of.
23:22:56 <elliott> Sgeo: But seriously, SHE BELIEVES CHEMOTHERAPY IS BASICALLY VITAMIN C?
23:23:01 <elliott> THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE
23:23:30 <Phantom__Hoover> Did you point out to her that vitamin C doesn't make you bald?
23:23:36 <elliott> YES IT DOES
23:23:39 <elliott> Just nobody's taken enough yet.
23:23:45 <elliott> Chemotherapy results in LOTS of Vitamin C.
23:23:46 <elliott> LOTS of it.
23:23:51 <elliott> Like a HUNDRED oranges.
23:23:57 <j-invariant> lol
23:23:58 <Sgeo> She believes that vitamin C is free of side-effects
23:24:03 <Sgeo> And thus is better than chemo
23:24:06 <elliott> Sgeo: So it doesn't cure cancer?
23:24:13 <fizzie> Vorpal: That you can survive without eating; the justifications vary, sometimes you get things from the air by breathing, other times from the sunlight.
23:24:13 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, DID SHE NOT NOTICE HER SMEGGING HAIR FALLING OUT
23:24:17 <elliott> "Oh god, I was drinking this orange juice and the most horrible thing happened... my cancer got cured!"
23:24:31 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: No, you see, only radiation Vitamin C causes hair falling out.
23:24:34 <Sgeo> I think she was cured of her cancer before she formed this belief
23:24:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, haha
23:24:36 <elliott> Regular Vitamin C is better, because it doesn't.
23:24:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, real life ones would be rather short lived
23:24:52 <fizzie> Vorpal: One of 'em took the Randi test, and was found sneaking into McDonald's around 04am, IIRC. But he said he just went there to breath in the nutrients.
23:24:56 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, chemotherapy isn't even radioactive!
23:25:07 <fizzie> Or maybe it was just some generic test and Randi reported it in the blog.
23:25:19 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:25:20 <fizzie> (I think he has a standing rule of not testing that sort of silliness.)
23:25:25 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, BENZENE
23:25:38 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: It's pure Vitamin C-enriched uranium.
23:25:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, Randi?
23:25:58 <fizzie> Vorpal: James Randi, a noted skeptic.
23:26:06 <elliott> Vorpal doesn't know who Randi is? lol.
23:26:07 <j-invariant> and illusion maker
23:26:09 <fizzie> (And a stage magician.)
23:26:10 <fizzie> Right.
23:26:17 <j-invariant> it's not magic! it's an illusion
23:26:29 <Phantom__Hoover> j-invariant, only kind of magic anyone's going to see.
23:26:31 <elliott> fizzie: There was one where they first did it in a city, deteriorated; "yeah well the air isn't pure enough!"; did it in the beautiful countryside, condition deteriorated, testers said fuck it, and cancelled it.
23:26:33 <Phantom__Hoover> Why not call it magic?
23:26:45 <j-invariant> Randi always makes the distinction
23:26:56 -!- impomatic has left (?).
23:26:58 <elliott> fizzie: But yeah, another famous breatharianist has been found ordering meals on planes and such.
23:27:02 <fizzie> j-invariant: "James Randi James Randi has an international reputation as a magician and escape artist --", directly from randi.org; I'm pretty sure he's called it magic too.
23:27:34 <elliott> A magician is an illusionist; a magician does magic tricks; magic tricks are illusions; a magician does not do magic, but "magic" is a common abbreviation for magic tricks.
23:27:39 * Phantom__Hoover logreads
23:27:41 <elliott> So really it's fine to say he does magic, because it's an abbreviation in context.
23:27:46 <Phantom__Hoover> 01:29:13 * Sgeo decides not to state his sexual wishes in the channel
23:27:59 <elliott> But what are your sexual wishes Sgeo? We need to know!
23:28:17 <Phantom__Hoover> Clearly he wants his partner to dress up as a macrophage.
23:28:36 <oerjan> yes, that's logical.
23:29:07 <Phantom__Hoover> And then have some sort of weird blood-furry-vore.
23:29:19 <Phantom__Hoover> DISGUSTING
23:29:39 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: impossible. blood is not kosher!
23:29:44 <elliott> :-D
23:29:59 <Phantom__Hoover> oerjan, ah, but which constituent of blood?
23:31:09 <Phantom__Hoover> Also, HE isn't doing the eating.
23:31:34 <Phantom__Hoover> Clearly this is why his stepmother didn't want him seeing non-Jewish girls.
23:31:49 <oerjan> it all makes sense now!
23:32:59 <Phantom__Hoover> The pieces of the puzzle are fitting together!
23:33:07 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, YOUR SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES
23:33:22 <oerjan> microscopic pieces
23:33:48 <Phantom__Hoover> oerjan, maybe even... ANTIBODY PIECES
23:33:57 <elliott> does anyone have that archive of the frappr, just realised i lost mine
23:34:13 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
23:34:53 <Gregor> http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/images/gallery/necrocard.jpg lawlwtf
23:35:46 -!- variable has joined.
23:35:57 <elliott> Gregor: old
23:36:13 <elliott> Gregor: that was actually made by some i think performance artist who actually carries it
23:36:17 <elliott> not that it holds any legal weight of course :)
23:40:58 <oklopol> i'd rather have sex after my death than be eaten by worms
23:41:04 <oklopol> or burned
23:41:07 <oklopol> or pretty much anything
23:41:35 <zzo38> I would rather not be buried when I am dead
23:41:59 -!- charlvn has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:42:01 <j-invariant> me neither, it is a waste of space
23:43:01 <zzo38> I also would rather not funeral for when I am dead
23:43:29 <cheater-> hi zzo38
23:43:30 <oklopol> why?
23:43:36 <oklopol> why no funeral
23:43:53 <oerjan> they're no fun at all
23:44:23 <Sgeo> I would rather not die\
23:45:32 <elliott> yeah eral is latin for not at all
23:47:20 <Gregor> Dingus Maximus died. Well that's fun eral.
23:47:39 <oklopol> hey
23:47:46 <oklopol> i just got what elliott meant by that
23:47:51 <oklopol> it was a joke!
23:47:53 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined.
23:47:54 <oklopol> see
23:47:55 <elliott> INDEED
23:47:57 <oklopol> fun-eral
23:48:00 <elliott> very
23:48:00 <Gregor> oklodurp
23:48:03 <oklopol> fun-not-at-all
23:48:20 <Gregor> oklopol: /nick oklodurp
23:48:35 <cheater-> okloplo
23:48:41 <oklopol> I'M ACTUALLY BBER SMART
23:48:44 <oklopol> *VERY
23:48:48 <Phantom__Hoover> <Sgeo> I would rather not die\ ← UNTIL YOU BECOME SENESCENT AND ARE PHAGOCYTOSED BY A SEXY MACROPHAGE
23:48:56 <cheater-> +quote <oklopol> I'M ACTUALLY BBER SMART
23:48:56 <Gregor> Bieber Smart? That doesn't sound very smart at all ...
23:49:14 <oklopol> :D
23:49:22 <oklopol> you're just ignorant
23:49:37 <cheater-> but is he bber ignorant?
23:49:42 <oerjan> *justin gnorant
23:50:47 <elliott> j-invariant: Could not deduce (Peano n) from the context (Peano (S n))
23:50:48 <oklopol> it's "justin bieber"?
23:50:58 <oklopol> that doesn't sound right
23:51:08 <oklopol> there was some other justin
23:51:16 <oklopol> i guess there could be two famous justins
23:51:25 <elliott> timberlake? :P
23:51:28 <oklopol> timberlake
23:51:29 <oklopol> yeah
23:51:40 <j-invariant> elliott: hum
23:51:41 <oklopol> that's like some famous programmer or what
23:51:46 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:51:47 <elliott> j-invariant: :D
23:51:54 <elliott> j-invariant: i should probably do it as a type family
23:51:57 <elliott> or something
23:52:12 <oklopol> bieber is a singer i think
23:52:20 <oklopol> and has a really high voice?
23:52:48 <oklopol> i read this in a youtube comment i think
23:53:54 <oklopol> YOU SAY JUSTIN BIEBER, I SAY METAL BAND #1; YOU SAY SPICE GIRLS, I SAY METAL BAND #2; etc.
23:54:06 <oklopol> i have to conclude people who listen to metal are retarded
23:54:51 <oerjan> how ironic
23:54:56 <oklopol> You say? Justin Bieber,I say PARAMORE!!! You say Lady Gaga,I say Evanescence You say Miley Cyrus,I say Slipknot You say? T-Pain,I say Three Days Grace You say Emenem,I say Linkin Park You say Jonas Brother,Isay Green Day
23:54:58 <Phantom__Hoover> oklopol, the correct deduction is "people who comment on music videos on YouTube are retarded."
23:55:16 <oklopol> 92% of teens have turned to pop and hip-hop.If? you are part of the? 8% that still listens to real music, copy and paste this message to 5 other videos.? DON'T LET THE SPIRIT OF ROCK AND ROLL DIE!!!!!!!
23:55:36 <Phantom__Hoover> 7 exclamation marks.
23:55:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
23:55:42 <Phantom__Hoover> That's some grade-A stupid there.
23:55:55 <Phantom__Hoover> I love it when people say things are ironic ironically.
23:55:56 <oklopol> are you sure it wins the actual content in stupidity?
23:55:58 <Phantom__Hoover> How ironic!
23:56:04 <oklopol> i mean, they actually DO copy paste that around :D
23:56:34 <Phantom__Hoover> oklopol, believe me, I know.
23:56:39 <oklopol> :P
23:58:00 -!- sshc has joined.
23:58:14 <Phantom__Hoover> Why has Sgeo not taken on board my dating advice.
23:58:29 <Sgeo> Phantom__Hoover, I'm not a murderer, and I still like her
23:58:42 <Sgeo> Just... am fearful for her safety
23:58:47 <Phantom__Hoover> Sgeo, just give her loads of orange juice!
23:59:11 <Sgeo> I would not stab someone who believes that they are immortal, either
23:59:12 <oklopol> Phantom__Hoover: did you suggest he kill her or what?
23:59:40 <Phantom__Hoover> oklopol, I suggested he put benzene in her perfume in order to demonstrate that vitamin C does not, in fact, cure cancer.
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