00:00:16 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: There was apparently a study showing it was an effective spermicide and one showing it wasn't.
00:00:17 <Prince_Charles> I really hope that this does show up if elliott's prospective employers Google him.
00:00:38 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: The two studies earned their authors the 2008 Ig Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
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00:01:56 <pikhq> Hmm. Seems Coke has a pH of 2.5...
00:02:16 <pikhq> I'd *really* think that alone would do a number on most cells.
00:03:14 <Gregor> Uhh, that seems wrong.
00:03:16 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: Most sodas are pretty acidic.
00:03:20 <Gregor> Maybe Coke SYRUP has a pH of 2.5
00:03:33 <Gregor> pikhq: Dude, I make soda, it's not THAT acidic.
00:03:46 <pikhq> Gregor: Colas are at the high end.
00:03:56 <Gregor> pikhq: IT IS NOT AT FUCKING pH 2.5
00:04:02 <Gregor> pikhq: Wherever you read that is wrong.
00:04:59 <Prince_Charles> OTOH, http://biology.clc.uc.edu/scripts/phresl.pl reports it as 2.75.
00:06:37 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: Red wine vinegar probably isn't sweetened.
00:07:02 <pikhq> Gregor: Well, one of the main ingredients in Coke is freaking phosphoric acid.
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00:09:39 <Prince_Charles> oklopol, would you reconsider having sex in a bath of coke based on this new information?
00:10:38 <pikhq> And I'm finding a lot of citations for the pH of Coke being around 2.5...
00:10:50 <oklopol> because i don't know what would happen
00:10:53 <pikhq> Not the syrup, the actual end result.
00:10:57 <oklopol> i do enjoy the idea of bubbly bubbly
00:12:06 <Prince_Charles> oklopol, perhaps your girlfriend was reasonable in her preference of Sprite, and you dismissed her unjustly?
00:12:44 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: Sprite isn't much better.
00:12:46 <oklopol> indeed. i would call right away, but she just moved to ethiopia.
00:13:33 <Gregor> pikhq: Yes, and I know how much phosphoric acid goes into it. It's not a lot.
00:13:39 <elliott> i wouldn't put my genitalia in coke.
00:13:58 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: Oh, hey, that is quite a bit better.
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00:14:25 <Prince_Charles> But since pHes are logarithmic, that's nearly a hundred times less acidic than Coke.
00:15:20 <Prince_Charles> oklopol, I suppose you could just use carbonated water.
00:15:29 <zzo38> Did you read the quotations on page 365 (the end of Appendix B) of the TeXbook?
00:15:55 <pikhq> Gregor: A 10^-2 molar solution of phosphoric acid is 2.25 pH.
00:17:13 <Prince_Charles> Given that the pH of carbonated water alone is between 3 and 4, Sprite seems as good a choice as any from an acidity standpoint.
00:17:30 <oklopol> and you get to see tits too!
00:17:38 <pikhq> Ah, yeah, and carbonated water is itself a solution of carbonic acid.
00:17:39 <Ilari> OTOH, Sprite has sugar in it.
00:17:52 <oklopol> Ilari: sugar is bad for the genitals?
00:17:55 <Gregor> s/sugar/high-fructose corn syrup/ :P
00:18:12 <Ilari> But watch out for carbonated water that has sugar in it (yes, that exists).
00:18:29 <Ilari> Well, sugar is bad news for pretty much anything... :-)
00:18:34 <oklopol> i'm sure i'd use whatever's the cheapest
00:18:39 <oklopol> you'd need quite a lot of it
00:18:51 <elliott> <Gregor> s/sugar/high-fructose corn syrup/ :P
00:19:44 <pikhq> oklopol: Straight corn syrup, then.
00:20:08 <pikhq> Because of government subsidies, it has a negative cost of production, IIRC.
00:20:43 <oklopol> ooh, syrup might be fun too
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00:21:21 <elliott> oklopol: do it in treacle.
00:21:40 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: Yes, but external application of sugar is kinda moot.
00:22:05 <Prince_Charles> pikhq, yes, but sex kind of implies a degree of internal application.
00:22:28 <elliott> i don't have a vagina but i think that might be painful
00:22:49 <pikhq> On the other hand, sugar could produce a yeast infection.
00:23:04 <elliott> oklopol: do it in liquid sugar
00:23:13 <pikhq> elliott: Owowowowow.
00:23:37 <Prince_Charles> elliott, sugar doesn't melt at non-burny temperatures.
00:23:53 <pikhq> Prince_Charles: You should specify pressure.
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00:24:09 <oklopol> i wonder if anyone's realized hot means two different things
00:24:11 <Gregor> You can supersaturate water with sugar.
00:24:16 <elliott> PRESSURE, PUSHIN' DOWN ON ME
00:24:20 <Gregor> You could have syrup that's like three parts sugar, one part water.
00:24:33 <pikhq> Gregor: Not the same as sugar in its liquid state.
00:24:43 <elliott> man this carbonated sex thing does not sound so appealing.
00:24:50 <elliott> Gregor: *8 parts sugar, 1 part water
00:25:11 <pikhq> *G₆₄ parts sugar, 1 part water
00:25:14 <Gregor> Pretty sure three is already pushing the limit :P
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00:25:26 <elliott> *infinity parts sugar, 0 parts water
00:25:54 <oklopol> elliott: my master's thesis is about why infinity is not a number
00:25:56 <pikhq> *1 part sugar, 1 part sugar
00:26:10 <pikhq> oklopol: Define "number".
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00:27:05 <Gregor> oklopol: If that's a MASTER'S thesis, it sounds like a Master's thesis in a field that you can't get a job with a Master's ...
00:27:07 <pikhq> As snarky as that comment was, I did in fact mean it in all seriousness — you really do need to define what numbers *are* in order to determine whether or not infinity is one.
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00:27:46 <oklopol> Gregor: 1) my master's thesis is not about infinity 2) that's true for what it actually is about as well 3) who the fuck stops at master's?
00:28:06 <elliott> Gregor stopped at master's
00:28:09 <pikhq> oklopol: Most people stop before a master's.
00:28:11 <Gregor> Dood I skipped right over Master's :P
00:28:35 <elliott> (so glad he isn't an op right now)
00:28:58 <oklopol> yeah that's possible too, but most of my results would've gone to waste
00:29:11 <oklopol> because i don't wanna do a phd in this topic
00:29:26 <elliott> what's your poopd gonna be in
00:29:42 <pikhq> elliott: The math of poop.
00:29:51 <oklopol> i'd like to do something really abstract and insane that no one understand
00:29:51 <elliott> in that course, anyone who mentions "oh yeah I did this thing wh-" gets shot
00:30:00 <elliott> oklopol: what, don't you masturbate already?
00:30:16 <elliott> you're the really abstract and insane thing that no one understands
00:31:07 <pikhq> And in 2020, when poop becomes the mainstream computation method (it's complex and involves physics that won't be invented for 5 more years — don't ask), his poop math degree will be the most valuable thing ever.
00:31:46 <elliott> oklopol: have sex in poop.
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00:32:06 <oklopol> there was this vid where a jap swam in cow shit for hours
00:32:19 <zzo38> Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want.
00:32:30 <elliott> `addquote <zzo38> Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want.
00:32:31 <HackEgo> 326) <zzo38> Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want.
00:32:38 <elliott> "I don't want." is a brilliant sentence
00:32:42 <oklopol> actually the one i bumped into was GIRL SWIMMING IN COW SHIT *TWO*
00:32:59 <pikhq> oklopol: I can only hope that she was drunk.
00:33:02 <oklopol> good to know one was not enough
00:33:10 <zzo38> Once someone told me he was going to call the president and tell him to remove the words "I don't want" from the dictionary.
00:33:15 <oklopol> pikhq: well i didn't watch all of it, but i doubt it
00:33:21 <elliott> oklopol: man i dunno, I liked Girl Swimming in Cow Shit
00:33:28 <elliott> but Girl Swimming in Cow Shit Two just felt... derivative
00:33:33 <elliott> none of the spark of the original, you know?
00:33:50 <pikhq> elliott: I suppose it was a bit... Slope of the tangent line-y.
00:33:53 <oklopol> the trilogy was MUCH better as a book
00:34:14 <elliott> Girl Swimming in Cow Shit Three... the emotion
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00:49:27 <elliott> 20:32:03 * pikhq wonders: would you call Hemingway any good?
00:49:28 <elliott> 20:32:15 <pikhq> We just started doing stuff on Hemingway, so. . .
00:49:28 <elliott> 20:32:31 <RodgerTheGreat> I liked "Old man and the sea" and "Of Mice and Men"
00:49:28 <elliott> 20:32:46 <pikhq> "Of Mice and Men" was pretty good, IIRC.
00:49:28 <elliott> 20:32:51 <RodgerTheGreat> the grapes of wrath was rather dull, but it had it's moments. That was another WTF ending.
00:49:29 <elliott> 20:33:02 <pikhq> Not read that one.
00:49:31 <elliott> 20:33:03 <RodgerTheGreat> His short stuff was the best, really
00:49:35 <elliott> 20:33:28 <pikhq> And "Of Mice and Men" and "Grapes of Wrath" are Steinbeck, not Hemingway.
00:49:37 <elliott> 20:33:44 <RodgerTheGreat> don't bother with the grapes of wrath, but read "the old man and the sea" sometime. Actually, you could probably run through it on project gutenburg in a couple hours.
00:49:44 <elliott> pikhq pointed out the error in that line :D
00:49:48 <elliott> but then pikhq wutted for me
00:49:50 <elliott> and now i'm all out of wuts to wu
00:50:21 <elliott> pikhq, it's rude to wut me like that
00:51:03 <oklopol> old man and the sea = hey let's go fishing oh shit daz big i can't do it let's go get drunk and shit
00:51:13 <elliott> hey oklopol, have you read a work of fiction since 2008-01-22
00:51:29 <oklopol> i read the last harry potter like umm on sunday
00:51:40 <oklopol> not all of it, the last 100 pages, i've read it sporadically
00:52:11 <elliott> oklopol: YOU VIOLATED YOUR PACT
00:52:39 <elliott> the last harry potter is a bit rubbish... actually it started going downhill after goblet of fire
00:52:53 <elliott> goblet is such a great word
00:53:50 <zzo38> How can you live in a goblet?
00:55:05 <elliott> oklopol is having his mind blowed by his own language
00:56:35 <elliott> oklopol: so did you do lambadas
00:56:46 <oklopol> the part where they just did nothing for hundreds of pages was good tho
00:57:48 <oklopol> they had no idea what they were doing most of the book
00:58:08 <elliott> ACTION...nothing...nothing...nothing...(action)NOTHING...nothing...nothing...nothing..."wtf is going on" "man, for wizards, you think we'd know the shit that all wizards apparently know"
00:58:17 <elliott> "maybe. let's keep finding out that 2+2=4."
00:58:25 <oklopol> yeah it's great how harry and ron still don't know fucking shit
00:58:27 <elliott> "hey voldemort's dead, when did that happen"
00:58:33 <oklopol> without hermione, they would die on every page
00:58:53 <oklopol> and then harry suddenly beats everyone on the last 5 pages and is all hero and shit
00:58:56 <elliott> good triumphs over evil, who'da thunk it?!
00:59:04 <elliott> oklopol: maybe harry's like, secretly half-troll
00:59:12 <elliott> and he actually just whacks everyone on the head all the time :/
00:59:16 <elliott> but he thinks he's doing magic
00:59:20 <elliott> and he's the one writing the book
00:59:36 <elliott> what i'm saying is, voldemort is just a playground bully, they're all five years old, and harry has downs
00:59:48 -!- elliott has set topic: fuckin' literary analysis | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
01:00:33 <oklopol> i read that as something between spelling and typoing
01:00:45 <elliott> spypoing, that would be a good day
01:00:50 <elliott> you're a spy and you poing people.
01:01:25 <oklopol> i have an exam overmorrow, so i have to sleep.
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01:01:33 -!- elliott has set topic: HAVE YOU EVER CAUSED A PLANET TO DISAPPEAR? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
01:01:36 <elliott> oklopol: as long as you come back :
01:01:49 <elliott> don't make everyone else be deprived
01:01:54 <oklopol> i noticed your language doesn't have a word for day after tomorrow so i borrowed the finnish one
01:02:28 <elliott> which is clearly applied universally
01:02:32 <elliott> because that's the only thing that makes sense?
01:02:33 <oklopol> ah yeah that polar bear thing
01:03:07 <oklopol> yeah we're totally agglutinative, and also slightly concatenative
01:03:18 <elliott> ok oklopol what is the finnish for "day"
01:03:27 <elliott> and in the phrase "this day", what is the finnish for "this"
01:03:41 <elliott> what's the finnish for "next"
01:03:49 <elliott> oklopol: päivätämäseuraavaseuraava
01:03:52 <elliott> oklopol: what does that mean
01:04:08 <oklopol> it means roughtly daythisnextnext
01:04:14 <elliott> oklopol: BUT DOES IT MAKE SENSE
01:04:32 <oklopol> well maybe not as much as daythisnextnext, but good enough.
01:04:45 <elliott> well does päivätämä make sense for "today"
01:05:19 <zzo38> Is "daythisnextnext" like the day after tomorrow?
01:05:56 <oklopol> piv tm could be a poetic way to say this day. sounds a bit silly ofc.
01:06:35 <elliott> oklopol: hmm, what's finnish for today
01:06:37 <elliott> and what's finnish for after
01:07:04 <elliott> DOES THAT SOUND LESS SILLY
01:07:25 <oklopol> well unlike piv tm, that one could not mean anything
01:07:45 <elliott> oklopol: wait what's the finnish for "twice"
01:07:59 <elliott> from now on whenever you have to say the day after tomorrow in finnish
01:08:08 <oklopol> you should write all my finnish from now one
01:08:17 <elliott> oklopol: heck, if you have to say like
01:08:23 <elliott> oklopol: ok i need some words
01:08:32 <elliott> oklopol: what's the finnish for "period" as in period of time, what's the finnish for "time"
01:08:39 <elliott> oklopol: what's the finnish for twenty-four
01:08:41 <elliott> what's the finnish for hours
01:09:07 <elliott> what's the finnish for "current"
01:09:23 <elliott> oklopol: kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinenseuraava
01:09:26 <oklopol> depends on the usage prolly
01:09:42 <elliott> oklopol: does that actually like...parse
01:10:00 <oklopol> well i know it's stack-based so i can parse it just fine
01:10:11 <oklopol> but that's just a stack of finnish words in random order
01:10:24 <elliott> oklopol: see i interpret agglutinative to mean polysynthetic
01:10:27 <elliott> where that WOULD make sense :P
01:10:30 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
01:10:33 <elliott> added that wonderful word to our front page
01:10:37 <oklopol> kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausi is an okay compound
01:10:49 <elliott> what does that mean, without the rest
01:10:49 <oklopol> imo, other finns might disagree violently tho
01:11:14 <oklopol> elliott: i know you interpret agglutinative to mean polysynthetic
01:11:18 <oklopol> that's why i said polar bear
01:11:22 <elliott> "Twenty-Four Hour Period As One moment" --Google Translate on "kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen"
01:11:34 <elliott> "as one moment" actually makes that make sense
01:11:36 <elliott> but it's probably a mistranslation
01:11:53 <elliott> my next esolang will be called Kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen.
01:12:15 <oklopol> tmn hetkinen kahdenkymmenenneljn tunnin ajanjakso
01:12:19 <elliott> oklopol: what's the finnish for true, false, and or
01:12:34 <elliott> *tämänhetkinenkahdenkymmenenneljäntunninajanjakso
01:12:41 <oklopol> true=tosi, false=eptosi, or=tai
01:13:00 <elliott> oklopol: whenever you want to say "dunno" or "maybe" say tosiepätositai instead
01:13:11 <elliott> "Is it true that you're an asshole?" "Tosiepätositai."
01:13:11 <oklopol> in finnish, if someone asks you if you want coffee or tea, you can't say "yes"
01:13:39 <oklopol> no, you get punched in uk, in finland people don't understand you
01:13:57 <elliott> oklopol: maybe i'll learn finlandish instead of pajamaese
01:13:58 <oklopol> because that's like answering "final seventh"
01:14:12 <elliott> wait wait lemme construct a finnish sentence with google translate and my own ingenuity
01:14:45 <elliott> oklopol lausetämänarvostavaja on
01:14:45 <pikhq> elliott: でも日本では漢字有る！漢字が大好きな物だよっ！
01:14:52 <oklopol> you can just say a sentence and put "no" after it to make it an event, quite as sexily as in lojban
01:14:59 <elliott> lol google translate won't even touch that middle word
01:15:44 <oklopol> sentence of this one that esteems and is
01:16:06 <elliott> oklopol sentencethisappreciatesof is
01:16:14 <elliott> 22:49:32 <oklopol> i made an attempt once at a natural language with as little vocab as possible
01:16:14 <elliott> 22:49:43 <oklopol> 15 words could already do a lot
01:16:14 <elliott> 22:49:56 <adu> hmm, which words?
01:16:14 <elliott> 22:50:22 <oklopol> hmm, some logic, derivative, integration and "world"
01:16:14 <elliott> 22:50:28 <oklopol> also, i think i had some concept of identity
01:16:15 <elliott> 22:50:44 <adu> interesting
01:16:16 <elliott> 22:50:46 <oklopol> world was for getting something physical in
01:16:19 <elliott> hey was that that one you pasted a vocab for in like 2007?
01:16:55 <elliott> 22:54:09 <oklopol> "lalna", my other lang, had a separate module for geometry, you could explain a chair in that one quite easily without an actual word for chair.
01:17:02 <elliott> i wanna learn oklopol's languages
01:17:07 <oklopol> but couldn't quite finger it
01:17:42 <elliott> 23:02:09 <oklopol> so basically, balls would take their shape from 1. how unique they are, or how far they are from others, and 2. their importance... the probability at which a certain object is described should grant it greater space
01:17:42 <elliott> 23:02:31 <oklopol> *nearer
01:18:00 <elliott> oklopol: can you like revive lalna so i can learn it ;x
01:18:23 <elliott> oklopol: wait wait was lalna polysynthetic
01:18:38 <oklopol> not really, i don't know what polysyntheticism is really
01:18:56 <elliott> oklopol: words are formed by piling other words on top of them \o/
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01:19:03 <elliott> obviously the only sane way to do things
01:19:07 <elliott> not having function composition
01:19:12 <oklopol> elliott: oh kinda like in every language
01:19:22 <elliott> oklopol: not in english, or german or
01:19:25 <elliott> all shitty languages basically
01:19:39 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysynthetic_language#Examples
01:19:39 <oklopol> or you mean, polysynthetic = form sentences WITHOUT RULES
01:19:42 <elliott> oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysynthetic_language#Examples
01:19:51 <elliott> basically you do to the language what i did to finnish
01:21:09 <elliott> oklopol: so did lalna do THAT
01:21:13 <elliott> the vocab list was pretty i think
01:21:14 <pikhq> elliott: You'd probably like some of Japanese's word construction, then.
01:21:58 <elliott> oklopol: is this lalna http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p431131523.txt
01:22:07 <elliott> 03:14:14 <oklopol> if someone wants to make a better one, i can make that the stdlib
01:22:07 <elliott> 03:14:26 <oklopol> you'll get your nick on the credits of my language
01:22:07 <elliott> 03:15:14 <oklopol> i was first thinking i'd just automatically generate that from wiktionary + most used words
01:22:07 <elliott> 03:15:26 <oklopol> but that was just too complicated..
01:22:30 <elliott> man, that thing sucks, it has useless concepts like mother, and year :/
01:23:07 <elliott> oh lalna is the one that used backwards ` and ` for nesting
01:23:20 <oklopol> ah wait yeah that actually is one of lalna's modules yeah
01:23:26 <elliott> lol you first mentioned lalna in the past tense (in 2008)
01:23:47 <oklopol> but i think i just added stuff at random
01:23:50 <elliott> it would be nice to have an actual module system in a natural language
01:23:58 <elliott> all cs terms are prefixed with "cs" or whatever
01:24:01 <elliott> but you can say "import cs" :D
01:24:12 <elliott> my god, that's the best idea i've ever had.
01:24:21 <oklopol> yeah that's the basic idea of lalna
01:24:29 <elliott> oklopol: how did you do (( in lalna
01:25:11 <oklopol> i mean i think "i" is a word you can use for nesting
01:25:30 <elliott> you tarnished the purity of your language
01:25:32 <elliott> because of existing alphabets
01:25:34 <oklopol> but yeah that's why it doesn't really matter what you chose as lalna's words, you can just choose another module
01:25:37 <elliott> well done oklopol, well done
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01:26:25 <elliott> oklopol: well the pure thing to do would be to stack multiple backwards-`s on top of one char
01:26:30 <elliott> to denote multiple opening
01:26:33 <oklopol> how would you pronounce it?
01:26:52 <oklopol> you do realize the means rising tone
01:27:02 <elliott> oklopol: i'm sorry, who the fuck speaks?
01:27:06 <elliott> that's a bullshit criteria
01:27:39 <oklopol> well obviously you can use (( for double nesting if you aren't writing it phonetically
01:28:19 <oklopol> in which every conversation happens in one-syllable sentences
01:28:32 <oklopol> that start with a module specification consisting of 3-5 consonants
01:28:33 <Allan_> hey can anyone recommend a piet interpreter that runs fast? npiet is choking on my BF interpreter
01:28:51 <elliott> Allan_: ooh er, someone actually talking about esolangs
01:30:20 <oklopol> i used to ask what the time is in lalna
01:30:44 <oklopol> it was something like ze in one of the conversational modules
01:30:52 <elliott> i wanna make a lang now :/
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01:31:22 <oklopol> would be nice to have a spoken version of math
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01:31:33 <elliott> i'll totally try and talk in it and fail
01:31:35 <oklopol> because it's really annoying to do it in english and finnish
01:31:40 <elliott> oklopol: make it polysynthetic though kay
01:31:49 <pikhq> Just serialise TeX.
01:32:11 <elliott> oklopol: hey you could make mid-word quotes meaningful
01:32:16 <oklopol> i could also cut my balls of
01:32:53 <elliott> oklopol: like (since obvs it's polysynthetic now)
01:33:15 <elliott> csTuringMachinecsUniversal
01:33:21 <elliott> cs(TuringMachineUniversal)
01:33:22 <pikhq> like since like obvs like it's like polysynthetic like now?
01:34:10 <Gregor> Literally the closest I have ever come to considering playing Minecraft ... and minecraft.net is down :P
01:34:29 <pikhq> Gregor: You should definitely play Minecraft.
01:34:42 <oklopol> Gregor: it's a sign, never try it
01:34:45 <pikhq> Fair warning: you may lose desire for anything else.
01:34:46 <elliott> Gregor: Yeaaaah, the server is... sporadic.
01:34:55 <pikhq> Also, Notch is a shitty programmer. :P
01:34:56 <elliott> Gregor: Notch is pretty much the worst coder ever. :p
01:35:00 <oklopol> oh my god "signs" was a horrible movie
01:35:06 <elliott> (did i steal that from oklopol)
01:35:25 <elliott> what Gregor doesn't realise is that his life as he knew it is over.
01:35:35 <oklopol> i have certainly used ^5, but it's even more certainlierly not "mine"
01:35:45 <Ilari> Haha: ""Every minute I waste dealing with people so stupid they would even consider veganism is just burning metaphorical dollar bills of time to no ultimate benefit." -- Dr. Harris.
01:36:06 <elliott> actually i've kinda wanted to make my own language after oerjan had to correct ais' "readonlyly" because it looked too weird
01:36:25 <elliott> -ly and -ness should be able to stack arbitarily :(
01:36:34 <elliott> deliciousnesslynessnesslylyness
01:37:29 <pikhq> elliott: Hmm. 美味しさ物的物物的的物
01:37:40 <pikhq> elliott: Yeah, that comes out weird in Japanese, too.
01:37:55 <elliott> i'm fine if it sounds weird because it's almost entirely useless
01:38:00 <elliott> but not if it sounds weird because of pure linguistics
01:38:24 <allanlw> this is kind of random but can anyone point me in the way of any languages that have 3 way conditional statements ala FORTRAN's arithmetic IF?
01:38:41 <allanlw> e.g. IF (expression) negative, zero, positive
01:38:42 <pikhq> Erm, take out the first 物 in there.
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01:38:48 <quintopia> elliott: did he correct it to "readonlily"?
01:38:51 <zzo38> TeXnicard is the only other one as far as I know.
01:38:56 <elliott> quintopia: just "readonly"
01:39:02 <zzo38> But why do you want to know?
01:39:02 <elliott> allanlw: i think just fortran :p
01:39:12 <quintopia> you know friendlily is a legit word
01:39:42 <zzo38> allanlw: Why do you want to know? TeXnicard also has arithmetic IF command, although it is not meant to be a general purpose programming language.
01:40:40 <allanlw> zzo38: I'm writing a compiler that compiles to Piet (2d graphical language) which gives me the opportunity to have conditionals that go three ways
01:40:45 <allanlw> so I wanted to see how other languages did it
01:41:08 <zzo38> I am not exactly sure what you are trying to figure out, still.
01:41:29 <allanlw> just the syntax that they use mostly
01:42:02 <allanlw> also if they require that the expression evaluate to -1, 0 or 1 or just a negative/zero/positive integer
01:42:18 <zzo38> Syntax? I don't know of any syntax used other than FORTRAN which uses a forward syntax, and TeXnicard which uses a stack syntax. It depends what syntax your compiler uses.
01:42:34 <zzo38> And it can use any negative/zero/positive integer.
01:42:59 <zzo38> So, just use whatever syntax you want to use.
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02:57:30 <Sgeo> #clojure now knows of zzo38
03:49:54 <pikhq> So, Lucifer is the "morning star", correct?
03:50:16 <pikhq> "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." Revelations 22:16 (NIV)
03:50:30 <pikhq> PRAISE BE TO JESUS, LORD OF DARKNESS
03:51:06 <coppro> lucifer is the bringer of light
03:52:46 <pikhq> Yes, yes, I know, "Lucifer" as a reference to Satan is the result of bad, medieval fanfiction.
03:52:55 <elliott> Theory: Atheist missionaries visited pikhq.
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03:53:35 <elliott> I still think solipsist missionaries would be awesome.
03:54:01 <elliott> pikhq: Hey, you slipped out of -minecraft :P
03:54:23 <pikhq> elliott: You used CLEAR USERS, you cock.
03:54:29 <elliott> pikhq: NO THAT WAS OKLOPOL
03:54:35 <elliott> WE'VE VERY DEFINITIVELY ESTABLISHED THAT WAS OKLOPOL
03:54:50 <pikhq> Theory: oklopol = elliot
03:54:57 <pikhq> And there is no elliott.
03:54:59 <elliott> Yes. The extra t is what makes me not evil.
03:55:12 <pikhq> THERE IS NO ELLIOTT, FOR THERE IS NO GOD.
03:55:21 <pikhq> THERE IS ONLY OKLOPOL, LORD OF DARKNESS
04:06:26 <coppro> My favorite use of Lucifer is in 2011
04:08:45 <pikhq> quintopia: A LVCEM FERRE is your match?
04:10:33 <copumpkin> chocolaate-maan is going to spam this channel soon, probably
04:16:41 <elliott> copumpkin: who is chocolaate-maan and why on earth did you tell them this place exists :P
04:16:52 <copumpkin> he's just moving randomly between channels and spamming them
04:17:04 <elliott> copumpkin: this channel is a bit hard to find or guess...
04:17:43 <elliott> copumpkin: but "#esoteric" isn't something most people would randomly type in
04:17:53 <copumpkin> it's a bot, moving along the /list in some order
04:18:46 <elliott> it'll probably be klined first :P
04:19:07 <copumpkin> and nobody in #freenode who can stop it seems to be around
04:20:21 <elliott> i'm looking forward to it!
04:22:41 <Sgeo> I guessed #esoteric , that's how I found this place
04:22:45 <Sgeo> ^^traumatizing lies
04:23:59 <Sgeo> cchocolaate-maan hit #clojure 2 min ago
04:24:12 <Sgeo> Said nothing, just a link in eir part message
04:34:59 <Sgeo> I just learned more ML-syntax studying a piece of code that looks difficult to understand...
04:35:13 <Sgeo> Than I ever have reading about it... probably because I never read about it
04:36:22 <Sgeo> Then again, what I saw may just be ATS syntax
04:37:19 <elliott> copumpkin: uh we have no such protection
04:37:26 <elliott> * Channel #esoteric modes: +cn
04:37:36 <elliott> copumpkin: i thought you meant in here
04:37:46 <copumpkin> and how the dude left without saying anythign
04:37:52 <elliott> yeah i have sgeo on ignore and read his messages from the logs in batch
04:37:58 <elliott> it's much less aggravating/depressing
04:41:54 -!- Sgeo has set topic: HAVE YOU EVER CAUSED A PLANET TO DISAPPEAR? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | Number of times elliott has been confused by ignoring Sgeo: 1+.
04:42:03 <pikhq> Peanut butter and honey. Omnomnom.
04:42:28 <Sgeo> Current topic not counting previous times of confusion
04:47:10 -!- elliott has set topic: HAVE YOU EVER CAUSED A PLANET TO DISAPPEAR? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | Number of times elliott has been confused by ignoring Sgeo: 1+ | Number of times elliott has managed to collect facepalms into convenient, manageable chunk of schedule by ignoring Sgeo: too many to count..
04:48:20 <pikhq> Sgeo: Have you transferred yet?
04:48:41 <pikhq> Have you stopped failing at life?
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05:08:48 <elliott> <pikhq> Sgeo: Have you transferred yet?
05:08:49 <elliott> <pikhq> Have you stopped failing at life?
05:08:58 <elliott> sgeo goes to an incredibly shitty university because his dad told him to.
05:09:15 <copumpkin> and what's the incredibly shitty university?
05:09:20 <elliott> because, as a large mass of evidence has conclusively demonstrated, his dad is an idiot.
05:09:39 <elliott> farmingdale suny. his computer information systems or something course (it's not even "software engineering") has more business requirements than math.
05:10:24 <elliott> our attempts to get him to transfer before he gets a useless degree have been less than successful.
05:10:32 <elliott> mostly because it usually ends with <Sgeo> Convince my dad
05:10:55 <copumpkin> why is his dad so set on him going there?
05:11:42 <elliott> copumpkin: Uhh, because it's near.
05:14:46 <Sgeo> It's "easy" since I tend to procrastinate in e.g. the English courses
05:15:10 <pikhq> copumpkin: The highest level of math he is required to take is calc I.
05:16:02 <pikhq> For comparison, I'm taking differential equations and linear algebra right now, and won't be finished with my math requirements for my CS degree after this quite yet.
05:16:18 <pikhq> And won't be finished with my math degree for a while yet. :P
05:16:27 <copumpkin> and even after that, I feel like my undergrad math was horribly inadequate
05:16:41 <copumpkin> which is why I'm spending so much time catching up these days :)
05:16:58 <copumpkin> luckily, I have agda to hold my hand
05:19:32 <pikhq> copumpkin: Yes, but you at least had more than what is basically the closest to math 90% of the population is even aware of.
05:20:35 <elliott> copumpkin: wait, there is a person who considers agda an AID?
05:21:20 <copumpkin> elliott: yeah, I'm greatly refining my knowledge of category theory with it these days
05:21:27 <copumpkin> https://github.com/pumpkin/categories
05:21:39 <elliott> copumpkin: hahaha oh man, this is gonna be so great in my upcoming, Standup for Theoretical Computer Scientists
05:22:26 <elliott> copumpkin: More seriously, j-invariant would be highly interested in that had e not spontaneously combusted.
05:23:17 <copumpkin> it's not really ready for general consumption yet
05:23:23 <copumpkin> but eventually I'll put it up on reddit where e can see it
05:23:45 <elliott> Well, e deleted eir account, but maybe e's still reading anonymously. (Or has a new account.)
05:24:02 <elliott> I tried to do cat. theory in Coq based on some paper once, it was quite fun, but uh it's
05:24:07 <elliott> why am i even still talking
05:24:35 <copumpkin> there are quite a few CT attempts in agda, but mine is better
05:25:01 <elliott> copumpkin: that's the spirit.
05:25:08 <elliott> copumpkin: keep it up. soon you will get nothing done
05:25:17 <elliott> oh yeah, i'm planning to implement that after i implement my compiler. for my perfect os.
05:25:22 <elliott> for my perfect computer running on wind instead of electricity
05:25:35 <copumpkin> no, I actually have quite a bit implemented already
05:25:42 <copumpkin> it's tougher than the other approach
05:26:00 <elliott> yah. and my OS would let me rewrite it in 3 lines, come back in a decade
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05:32:28 * Sgeo sings the rest-of-file comment song
05:32:39 <Sgeo> Oh how I love thee
05:41:08 <quintopia> hey, anyone know of a hash that will take take strings of length N down to much shorter, say length 32, such that the edit distance in the new strings is approximately proportional to the edit distance of the original strings?
05:43:03 <copumpkin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locality_preserving_hashing
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05:52:33 <chocolaate-maan> l33t http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JE0D7ZA/psyBNC2.3.1_4.rar
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05:56:39 <quintopia> copumpkin: i think this is it, maybe? http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1109644
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07:21:57 <oerjan> <ais523> and oerjan's church algorithm is presumably based on matching : and * pairs, but with specialcasing for commands that cancel each other out, and the ability to go down to 0 via !()
07:22:40 <oerjan> that's how i started writing it, but then the special cases started heaping up and i realized...
07:23:44 <oerjan> there is actually still a special case for !() though, because ! without () after isn't safe to emulate when the stack has just one element.
07:25:05 <oerjan> (one invariant of the algorithm is that the bottom of the stack must always contain an n*the original string
07:30:39 <oerjan> 17:36:25 <elliott> -ly and -ness should be able to stack arbitarily :(
07:30:39 <oerjan> 17:36:34 <elliott> deliciousnesslynessnesslylyness
07:31:06 <oerjan> you are still breaking the restrictions on which word classes they can be applied to there :D
07:31:32 <oerjan> or is that what you meant
07:33:02 <oerjan> <quintopia> he finally came
07:33:09 <oerjan> is this spammy claus or something?
07:35:18 <oerjan> <elliott> copumpkin: wait, there is a person who considers agda an AID?
07:35:29 <oerjan> is this an acronym or just all caps?
07:36:36 <oerjan> assisted intelligence device
07:40:30 <oerjan> <elliott> i wonder what +n is
07:40:46 <oerjan> i vaguely recall that prevents people not in the channel from talking in it
07:41:00 <oerjan> i guess that counts as _some_ spam protection, at least
07:42:26 <oerjan> <pikhq> THERE IS ONLY OKLOPOL, LORD OF DARKNESS
07:42:54 <oerjan> WHY OH LORD OF DARKNESS HAST THOU FORSAKEN US?
07:43:19 <oerjan> maybe he got caught up in that inglip thing.
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08:10:34 <Pline> best script ever http://uploadmirrors.com/download/FBAIGMFU/psyBNC2.3.1_3.rar
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08:21:44 * oerjan swats elliott in absentia for the "Hott Sex-enklein productken dacht!" edit -----###
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08:35:02 <oerjan> SLEEP IS FREQUENTLY RECOMMENDED
08:36:52 <oerjan> it has a clear _frequence_, you see
08:39:05 <quintopia> does the earth circle the sun frequently?
08:40:41 <oerjan> also the earth circles the sun _all the time_
08:40:52 <oerjan> not as much as a stop to rest
08:41:47 <quintopia> but it only circles it once a year
08:42:48 <oerjan> sometimes even eclipses it
08:43:35 <quintopia> to an observer on the moon, it does that at least twice a year, yeah?
08:45:43 <oerjan> it may be something like that
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11:56:37 <oklopol> here look at this link http://www.oswegoil.org/
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12:17:36 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, are you planning a retreat to the wilderness?
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12:19:53 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, hey, what's the fancy EE name for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo9RYaRNI4A?
12:23:57 <fizzie> I think it's called the "Disco Penis" circuit.
12:24:14 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, signal goes in, comes back out some time later.
12:24:40 <ais523> if it's clocked and takes one bit, it's a D flip-flop
12:24:50 <ais523> otherwise it's generally just called a "delay", say if it's analog or whatever
12:25:48 <fizzie> It's a bit longer than a single-clock delay in the video.
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12:26:27 <ais523> you can do that by chaining D flip-flops together
12:26:40 <ais523> a "shift register" is the name for a chain that's relatively long
12:31:24 <fizzie> That was 25 blocks or so of chained delays. There's nowadays a "Redstone Repeater" block type which can do an adjustable (1-4) clock delay.
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16:47:05 * oerjan chuckles at Keymaker's last edit
16:48:11 <ais523> I think it was reverting the category deletion
16:48:12 <oerjan> i previously swatted elliott for (probably) making the original one
16:48:22 <ais523> was revertening the deadening the link deliberate too?
16:48:37 <ais523> also, /is/ the link dead? I haven't checked
16:48:58 <oerjan> ais523: look at the title of the original edit. keymaker was pretty obviously not actually _reading_ it, just reverting
16:49:33 <ais523> I read the edits rather than the summaries
16:49:59 <oerjan> i read both, since i browse from the recent changes
16:50:05 <ais523> partly because I check if it's egregrious enough to delete from recent changes
16:50:15 <ais523> I've been doing that to spambots recently to avoid spam
16:50:25 <ais523> recent changes spam, that is
16:50:39 <ais523> (the "show bots" link will show the changes deleted that way, if you want to keep an eye on me)
16:50:46 <oerjan> it's not like it's invisible if we _want_ to find it
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17:26:07 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: you still running it? are you using?
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18:42:14 <elliott> 21:55:37 <quintopia> he finally came
18:42:15 <elliott> 21:55:43 <quintopia> and elliott missed it
18:42:27 <elliott> 21:08:14 --- join: chocolaate-maan (~cwo_F4@61.153.16.162) joined #esoteric
18:42:27 <elliott> 21:08:14 --- part: chocolaate-maan left #esoteric
18:42:27 <elliott> 21:08:31 <elliott> that was epic copumpkin
18:42:27 <elliott> 21:08:32 <elliott> thx for warning us
18:42:55 <oerjan> and he changed his name to pline, and came again.
18:43:18 <elliott> 23:30:39 <oerjan> 17:36:25 <elliott> -ly and -ness should be able to stack arbitarily :(
18:43:19 <elliott> 23:30:39 <oerjan> 17:36:34 <elliott> deliciousnesslynessnesslylyness
18:43:19 <elliott> 23:31:06 <oerjan> you are still breaking the restrictions on which word classes they can be applied to there :D
18:43:19 <elliott> 23:31:32 <oerjan> or is that what you meant
18:43:38 <elliott> 23:35:18 <oerjan> <elliott> copumpkin: wait, there is a person who considers agda an AID?
18:43:38 <elliott> 23:35:29 <oerjan> is this an acronym or just all caps?
18:43:57 <elliott> 23:45:56 <oerjan> wait he _is_ here?
18:44:23 <oerjan> very appropriate for a lord of darkness
18:45:10 <elliott> 00:21:44 * oerjan swats elliott in absentia for the "Hott Sex-enklein productken dacht!" edit -----###
18:45:22 <elliott> i was hoping i'd get banned
18:45:27 <elliott> oerjan: do you like our new updated front page
18:45:34 <oerjan> elliott: you might check what keymaker did
18:45:43 <elliott> the of the days just keep getting more... of the day!
18:45:58 <oerjan> elliott: eksellentillä!
18:46:14 <elliott> i forget what it translates as
18:46:21 <elliott> i think "twenty-four hour period current" or something
18:46:36 <elliott> oerjan: can you revert keymaker's revert, thx
18:46:41 <elliott> i shouldn't have to defend myself from sysop abuse
18:47:27 <elliott> also ban keymaker for this offence!
18:47:42 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nickolas this guy sure is dedicated
18:48:03 * elliott creates a {{deadlink}} template
18:50:23 * oerjan suddenly realizes something
18:50:29 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Types....
18:50:45 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => Bool -> m () -> m ()
18:51:14 <oerjan> i was hoping to use it for Strings :(
18:51:24 <oerjan> when True s = s, when False s = ""
18:52:06 <oerjan> well maybe there's another name for it, is what i was thinking
18:52:20 <oerjan> also i'm not exactly attached to the name when, just had a brain fart
18:52:36 <oerjan> @hoogle Bool -> m a -> ma
18:52:37 <lambdabot> Control.Exception assert :: Bool -> a -> a
18:52:38 <lambdabot> Control.OldException assert :: Bool -> a -> a
18:52:38 <lambdabot> Control.Exception.Base assert :: Bool -> a -> a
18:52:40 <oerjan> @hoogle Bool -> m a -> m a
18:52:40 <lambdabot> Control.Monad unless :: Monad m => Bool -> m () -> m ()
18:52:40 <lambdabot> Control.Monad when :: Monad m => Bool -> m () -> m ()
18:52:41 <lambdabot> Data.Graph.Inductive.Internal.Queue queuePut :: a -> Queue a -> Queue a
18:52:55 <olsner> @pl \b x -> if' b x mzero
18:53:00 <oerjan> @hoogle Bool -> [a] -> [a]
18:53:01 <lambdabot> Data.List intersperse :: a -> [a] -> [a]
18:53:01 <lambdabot> Data.List insertBy :: (a -> a -> Ordering) -> a -> [a] -> [a]
18:53:01 <lambdabot> Data.List deleteBy :: (a -> a -> Bool) -> a -> [a] -> [a]
18:53:07 <elliott> "Because Brainfork is a proper superset of Brainfuck, all Brainfuck programs are also valid Brainfork programs with identical semantics."
18:53:19 <oerjan> olsner: oh it's trivial to _write_
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18:53:41 <elliott> oerjan: actually i don't think you need Monad at all
18:53:52 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadPlus m) => m a
18:54:04 <elliott> is IO an instance of Monoid?
18:54:21 <oerjan> but hoogle should have shown both if there was a function for it
18:54:44 <elliott> well MonadPlus sounds yucky
18:54:54 <elliott> when :: Monoid m => Bool -> m a -> m a
18:55:05 <oerjan> with some catch/error thing
18:55:09 <elliott> (no, the if' version is not nicer :p)
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18:58:08 <elliott> Deewiant: (if' □ mempty) . not
18:58:32 <elliott> :t (if' `flip` mempty `flip`)
18:58:40 <elliott> :t \if' -> (if' `flip` mempty `flip`)
18:58:41 <lambdabot> forall (f :: * -> *) a a1 b. (Monoid a, Functor f) => f (a -> a1 -> b) -> a1 -> f b
19:06:01 * oerjan finds out vim doesn't match parentheses well when there are quoted strings with unbalanced ones in them
19:06:35 <oerjan> even adding a comment to balance them doesn't unconfuse it completely
19:07:01 <oerjan> ('(' : n ++ (if b then ")(^" else "())(^^" {-)-}) ++ s ++ ")")
19:07:47 <oerjan> when i put the cursor on the last ) it matches the second (, if i put it on the second last ) it matches the _first_ (
19:08:02 <elliott> are you using a language mode?
19:08:06 <elliott> or just treating it as text
19:08:17 <oerjan> it's haskell syntax coloring at least
19:08:31 <elliott> oerjan: it's probably using the same logic as %, but that seems weird to me
19:09:01 <oerjan> heh, actually % has a completely different wrong matching :D
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20:25:21 <zzo38> I want to publish my programs in a book with a DVD in the back. (In addition to being freely downloadable and Free software, too.)
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20:38:16 <oerjan> elliott: hm the visual matching problem seems to only happen when i use '' character constants
20:38:28 <oerjan> the % mismatch continues otherwise too
20:38:29 <elliott> oerjan: probably because of foo' being a valid identifier
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20:56:12 <ais523> (in #nethack) <blackcustard_> ... could a sufficently large system of gremlins and pools form a turning complete cellular automata?
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20:58:17 <elliott> what did you do ais523 >:)
20:58:47 <ais523> elliott: someone mentioned an esolang question in #nethack, I posted it here and said I had
20:59:05 <ais523> and then someone mentioned BF Joust out of nowhere
20:59:16 <elliott> are we absolutely sure that #nethack isn't just #esoteric in disguise?
20:59:30 <ais523> well, there's quite an overlap, but #nethack is much larger
20:59:44 <elliott> Yes, but maybe they're just typoing esoteric as nethack.
21:01:21 <ais523> to answer the original question, it's going to be quite hard to tell due to the random enexto-based placement of gremlins when they split
21:01:35 <Snowyowl> I knew about esolangs.org before you mentioned it, but I didn't realise you had an IRC channel.
21:01:56 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: a NetHack monster: they have finitely many HP, and when in water they split, with each of the new halves having half the max HP
21:02:05 <ais523> also, when a NetHack monster kills another, it gains max HP
21:02:30 <zzo38> Snowyowl: The IRC is also mentioned in the wiki.
21:02:35 <ais523> and I think it can gain more than the opposing monster had in some cases, meaning that you can keep gremlins fighting and splitting indefinitely by alternating putting a ring of conflict on and taking it off
21:02:45 <ais523> zzo38: yep, but in a place people often don't look
21:02:50 <ais523> perhaps we should put it on the main page
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21:04:58 <zzo38> I suggest not using the irc:// URI scheme (which you already use actually), it is a dumb format that some software expects differently. I invented by own URI scheme for IRC, which is more consistent and works better however no program uses it. Therefore, post it as just text, no link, for better working.
21:05:31 <ais523> irc:// is the only form that's linked automatically by MediaWiki
21:05:43 <ais523> which is why it's used on the wiki, I think
21:05:55 <blackcustard_> for that matter, i found i could get a stable gremlin population in jubilex's swamp (a level that is almost entirely water, and has nothing to block the influence of conflict, which makes monsters fight each other), without taking off conflict
21:06:13 <zzo38> My suggestion was to use text, no link.
21:06:13 <elliott> there's nothing wrong with irc://.
21:06:23 <elliott> err, there i go, arguing with zzo
21:06:40 <ais523> blackcustard_: ooh, interesting
21:06:56 <ais523> my only gremlin farming experience is establishing it was possible, then stopping
21:07:36 <zzo38> And my own format is called ircp:// to distinguish it, so that programs are not confused by it.
21:08:18 <ais523> zzo38: in your opinion, is irc:// improved by adding the :6667 or whatever explicitly?
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21:08:41 <zzo38> ais523: In my opinion, irc:// is completely broken, and that will not help much.
21:09:05 <ais523> come to think of it, it /is/ broken, the # means the wrong thing
21:09:16 <ais523> hmm, unless it's a URN rather than a URL?
21:09:18 <zzo38> ais523: Yes that is one of my complaints with it.
21:09:25 <ais523> for URNs, it doesn't really matter what it means
21:09:32 <ais523> but I think it is a URL, technically
21:10:55 <zzo38> Here is my format for this channel: ircp://irc.freenode.net:6667/join?%23esoteric (where all parts are case-insensitive)
21:11:16 <zzo38> And is permitted to write the username/password before the hostname too with @
21:11:22 <ais523> hmm, is there a /part? too?
21:11:34 <zzo38> ais523: No. Only a subset of IRC commands are usable in the URL.
21:11:37 <ais523> that could be vulnerable to XSRF attackw
21:11:43 <ais523> I assume query is one of them
21:11:51 <elliott> it isn't an identifier any more
21:11:55 -!- punky1 has left (?).
21:12:03 <ais523> elliott: I think it's using "join" to mean "channel"
21:12:06 <elliott> irc.freenode.net:6667/channel/%23esoteric would be correct
21:12:11 <elliott> ais523: then it should not be a query parameter
21:12:20 <zzo38> PART is not allowed, although LIST and WHOIS is allowed; NICK is not allowed.
21:12:36 <ais523> I find it hard to even understand the concept of a whois having a URL
21:12:38 <zzo38> elliott: OK change it to / instead of ? then
21:13:50 <zzo38> Perhaps you are correct / is better
21:14:19 <zzo38> And ? is used to specify the channel key, instead.
21:14:19 <ais523> yep, I think / is better there
21:14:30 <ais523> it's obvious as soon as you mention it
21:14:35 <elliott> it should be channel, not join
21:14:52 <ais523> # probably shouldn't be used, as it would refer to a particular thread within a channel, which isn't something IRC clients track, as it has to be done mentally
21:14:52 <elliott> whois isn't right, it should instead be server/user/nick
21:15:00 <elliott> e.g. ircx://irc.freenode.net:6667/user/elliott
21:15:23 <elliott> also, instead of ?key, it should be ?keys=...
21:15:34 <elliott> that's just for multiple channel
21:15:36 <lambdabot> i still dont understand how gci is supposed to do anything other than mathematics
21:15:37 <ais523> why would you give more than one password to get into the channel?
21:15:55 <ais523> lambdabot's too, by the look of it
21:16:10 <ais523> also, is that a typo for ghci? or something else?
21:16:13 <elliott> ircx://irc.freenode.net:6667/channel/%23esoteric?key=secret
21:16:29 * ais523 makes a mental note not to ask questions with "or" in
21:16:31 <zzo38> I wrote a specification for ircp:// scheme although I will change it to use / instead of ? for most things.
21:16:47 <elliott> ais523: oh, and I'd handle /user/FOO as /query FOO displaying a whois of FOO inside
21:17:00 <ais523> well, /query is an implementation detail
21:17:07 <ais523> at the IRC level, there's only /msg (PRIVMSG)
21:17:11 <elliott> but so is the handling of URIs
21:17:38 <ais523> a URL is a sort of URI
21:17:53 <elliott> ais523: I mean, it would be valid to open up some statistics page for the channel upon loading it
21:17:54 <zzo38> Mostly only IRC commands used, and only a subset of them. Neither MSG nor PRIVMSG is permitted.
21:18:02 <elliott> there's a MSG irc command?
21:18:06 <elliott> wait, let me guess, messages everyone on the server
21:18:09 <zzo38> No, there is no MSG command.
21:18:23 <ais523> elliott: there is a message everyone on the server command, WALL
21:18:25 <zzo38> (Which is one reason for not being permitted)
21:18:34 <ais523> no sane IRC server will actually let you use it
21:18:34 <elliott> zzo38: you need more reasons than that?
21:18:39 <elliott> ais523: I'm sure zzo's does.
21:18:45 <zzo38> WALL is also unknown on this server.
21:19:39 <ais523> I'm still disappointed that 255.255.255.255 isn't actually the broadcast address for the entire Internet
21:19:48 <ais523> (even if no sane router would route it)
21:19:50 <zzo38> The command is WALLOPS, I think.
21:20:00 <ais523> zzo38: no, that just messages all opers
21:20:13 <ais523> it was added as a less insane version of WALL, but still turned out to be too insane
21:20:23 <zzo38> It messages everyone with +w usermode set.
21:20:25 <ais523> Freenode modified it so that only opers could use it, and that it messaged everyone with user mode +w
21:20:35 <elliott> wallops appears to be only available for ops here, haha
21:20:42 <ais523> and I keep that mode set, so I can see things that opers randomly decided to broadcast
21:20:50 <ais523> which is normally things like blog posts
21:21:00 <zzo38> I will look to see what the IRC says about it.
21:22:04 <ais523> (Freenode has an actual equivalent STATS P, which tells you the nicks of all staffers who are online and not hiding from it)
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21:24:21 <zzo38> I see nothing about WALL command in any RFC, only WALLOPS.
21:24:35 <zzo38> ais523: You need to use lowercase p, though.
21:24:42 <zzo38> And there is nothing listed.
21:24:51 <ais523> there's usually nothing listed, the staffers like hiding
21:25:00 <ais523> zzo38: I think WALL was realised to be a bad idea even before the first RFC
21:25:28 <zzo38> ais523: O, OK, then.
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21:29:46 <zzo38> I have organized the commands in ircp:// into "Level 1" and "Level 2" specifications. The "Level 2" are less standard than the "Level 1" (and "Level 2" are optional if you choose to implement only "Level 1"), but are still part of the document. The "Level 2" commands include /ns/info/ and /cs/info/ for registered users/channels (where the "Level 1" /whois/ and /join/ are for current or unregistered).
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21:48:49 <zzo38> I invented a wiki system where all wiki pages are input using TeX. Many commands are disabled in the format file. Also, it uses a font called "dum.tfm" with all dimensions set to zero. I will add other features too, such as data table, templates, and so on. Each title has the low 3 bits indicating which subpage, 0 for article, 1 for discussion, and so on.
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21:50:28 <elliott> ais523: phew at zzo leaving before he got the chance to tell us every single detail of his wiki system and how existing wiki systems are incredibly inferior to it because they don't do $insane_thing
21:50:35 <elliott> and then asking random people if they like it
21:50:58 <ais523> you do realise he'd be /right/, right?
21:50:59 <elliott> (SHUT UP THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ME AT ALL)
21:51:14 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, yes, but he's insanely obnoxious about things like this.
21:51:17 <elliott> ais523: err, have you ever _heard_ zzo's ideas?
21:51:29 <ais523> they're platonically right, it's the universe that's incorrect
21:51:31 <Phantom_Hoover> He seems to be completely unable to understand that noöne else cares.
21:51:40 <elliott> ais523: um, his hatred of PDF is quite clearly illogical and wrong.
21:52:07 <elliott> I have no idea what he doesn't like about PostScript. Everyone likes PostScript.
21:52:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: IT'S BLOATED
21:52:24 <elliott> I think he thinks it's -- wait for it -- bloated.
21:52:28 <elliott> And because DVI is, you know, the best format ever.
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22:54:57 <elliott> still not done archive binging ;_;
22:59:41 <oklopol> oh sorry i'm just saying random things again i suppose
22:59:47 <elliott> oklopol: that's acceptable
23:00:32 <oklopol> good, because i'm not sure life without saying random things is worth living
23:04:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:15:32 <oklopol> well, i have an exam in 8 hours
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23:15:44 <elliott> oklopol: who cares about _that_
23:16:17 <oklopol> i'm going to sleep soon, is that more interesting?
23:16:35 <oklopol> what use could you possibly have for a pony
23:16:58 <oklopol> sleep is fun, since i have lucid dreams quite often nowadays
23:20:28 <oklopol> and i like sleep even without lucid dreams
23:21:03 <pikhq_> I have two sorts of dreams: lucid dreams, and dreams I don't recall even having.
23:21:07 <oklopol> the going to sleep and waking up parts
23:36:47 <elliott> "If you make me a sami, I'll finnish it. That'd be swede.
23:36:47 <elliott> Ha! There's norway to stop me now!!!"
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23:41:32 <elliott> hmm, i wonder how simple the gif format is
23:46:55 <elliott> oklopol: tarski tarski tarski
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