00:00:12 * Sgeo really, really wants to do what he's previously been told was impossible
00:00:33 <zzo38> Sgeo: What things are that?
00:00:48 <Sgeo> zzo38, booting into an .iso stored on the hard drive
00:01:25 <zzo38> Sgeo: Try figuring it out...
00:01:56 <zzo38> quintopia: Why do I want to know what?
00:02:19 <quintopia> zzo38: the best sizes for pieces on a chess board?
00:02:43 <zzo38> quintopia: To make the TeX chess program and METAFONT chessboard.
00:03:09 <quintopia> so by point sizes you mean, as in font points?
00:04:08 <quintopia> my answer: there is no best. it all depends.
00:04:22 <zzo38> OK, I guess that does make sense.
00:04:28 <zzo38> However I ought to put in some default.
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00:38:29 <pikhq> Bleck. DST starts up again soon.
00:38:41 <pikhq> I DESPISE YE AND YOUR POINTLESS TIME FUCKING
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00:41:59 <Sgeo> pikhq, you there/
00:42:24 <Sgeo> Is there only one Suzumiya Haruhi movie, or is there another, meaning I'm risking watching in the wrong order?
00:53:42 <Ilari> National pastime being screwing around with DST rules (it is in some countries) would be even worse.
00:54:08 <zzo38> I do not like DST either
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00:56:25 <Ilari> Heh. I set this script to print high pings in red (normal ones in red). The threshold is 1ms.
00:57:13 <Ilari> (yes, it classifies 1.2ms ping as high)
01:08:03 <myndzi> lol @ risking watching in the wrong order when it comes to haruhi
01:08:13 <myndzi> it's funny you should mention that... ;)
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01:21:33 <Gregor> Obsession, thy name is libc.so!
01:23:04 * variable secretly bids against Gregor and forces him to pay me for the domain name
01:23:12 <variable> oops - did I say that in channel?
01:23:16 <Gregor> variable: Closed auction.
01:23:43 <Gregor> The fact that it's a closed auction is the only reason I have a chance :P
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02:34:02 <pikhq> Sgeo: So far, there is only one susùmiya haruhi movie.
02:54:27 <Sgeo> So, the spoiler I saw some time ago is apparently a very severe one
02:58:07 <pikhq> What, Haruhi being omnipotent?
02:58:17 <pikhq> That's not really a spoiler, that's more the premise.
02:59:38 <Sgeo> pikhq, I meant for the movie specifically
02:59:46 <Sgeo> Not ... the premise of the series
03:00:08 <Sgeo> (Although I've seen speculation about Kyon actually being the omnipotent one)
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03:19:32 <Sgeo> Someone needs to put a warning for photosensitive epileptics on this movie
03:24:23 <pikhq> You'd think Japan would know that.
03:24:36 <pikhq> Considering the infamous episode of Pokémon only aired there...
03:24:44 <pikhq> And put hundreds in the hospital.
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03:37:35 <Ilari> Lots of flickering?
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04:00:39 <Sgeo> pikhq_, should I seek out the Suzumiya Haruhi mangas?
04:05:57 <pikhq_> Sgeo: You may, however, wish to seek out the novels.
04:06:03 <pikhq_> As those are actually the original media.
04:07:08 <pikhq_> The anime, BTW, covered roughly the first volume.
04:07:30 <Sgeo> I saw the occasional spoiler on TV Tropes
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04:09:17 <pikhq_> Sweet. The Jefferson Bible is getting digitised.
04:09:39 <Zwaarddijk> I don't see how that's particularly sweet
04:09:49 <pikhq_> Zwaarddijk: I take it you're unfamiliar with the Jefferson Bible.
04:09:58 <pikhq_> Zwaarddijk: I take it you're unfamiliar with the Jefferson Bible.
04:10:08 <Zwaarddijk> it's the subset that jefferson considered uh, good.
04:10:45 <pikhq_> Among other things, it is devoid of supernatural claims.
04:11:01 <Zwaarddijk> anyone can see which claims in the bible are supernatural, so it's pretty trivial to filter those out?
04:11:29 <Zwaarddijk> of course, here's the point about "anyone can do that" "yeah so, it's trivial in retrospect" etc ...
04:11:58 <Zwaarddijk> and yeah sure, it has some historical relevance in that we can learn something about 19th century progressive-religious thought
04:12:18 <pikhq_> I'm sorry that I like the digitisation of important historical documents. :P
04:12:32 <Zwaarddijk> but when it comes to religious scholarship i kind of prefer the historical-critical methods in actual use by irreligious scholars
04:12:55 <Zwaarddijk> I think there's more important historical documents to attend to
04:13:38 <Zwaarddijk> and I don't see why that's particularly interesting. (a friend of mine's been collecting copies of nahuatl codices from just after the spanish conquista, I think those'd be more valuable, for one)
04:15:33 <Zwaarddijk> how much impact did the Jefferson bible have in America, btw?
04:15:56 <Zwaarddijk> did it inspire lots of people to become somewhat more moderate christians in america?
04:16:08 <Zwaarddijk> or did those that became moderate become so because of other reasons?
04:17:14 <Zwaarddijk> I'm not opposing the digitization, but uh ... I guess I'm a bit difficult to excite
04:17:29 <pikhq_> Absolutely no impact, because Jefferson did not publish for fear of getting lynched.
04:17:46 <pikhq_> However, Jefferson *himself* had an absurd amount of impact in the US.
04:18:09 <Zwaarddijk> but I think he, like pretty much everyone has even more impact as a kind of
04:18:22 <Zwaarddijk> uh, canvas onto which people project their own idealization
04:19:00 <pikhq_> I also think it's somewhat important to have a digitisation just so that I can shove it at people who claim that "This is a Christian nation; after all, the founding fathers were Christian."
04:19:16 <pikhq_> Jefferson took God out of the Bible, your argument is invalid!
04:20:50 <Zwaarddijk> but those people won't read the first paragraph of the jefferson bible even if you stick things in their eyes to keep the eyelids open
04:21:18 <pikhq_> In which case I'd much prefer a normal Bible.
04:21:28 <pikhq_> Significantly heavier object for beating clue into people.
04:21:46 <Zwaarddijk> I recommend you get a seriously commented edition
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04:22:57 <Zwaarddijk> you could probably use them for sailing ballast, even
04:24:53 * pikhq_ is a preacher's child. Those suckers are fucking *heavy*.
04:25:17 <Zwaarddijk> I like the kind of language game that eisegesis and exegesis really is
04:25:27 <Zwaarddijk> I would like a game that basically just is a big book
04:25:53 <Zwaarddijk> which may be why I feel so attracted to the talmud
04:26:01 <Zwaarddijk> I know some games like nomic kind of get close
04:26:06 <pikhq_> Only problem is that it may evolve into a world religion.
04:26:29 <Zwaarddijk> if you make the content incomprehensible enough
04:26:41 <Zwaarddijk> I'm not saying stupid enough, I'm saying genuinely meaningless
04:26:49 <Zwaarddijk> the bible does contain meaning, it's just mistaken meaning
04:26:58 <Zwaarddijk> this should be meaning that barely registers as such
04:27:14 <pikhq_> And you'll get bible code shit coming out of it.
04:28:08 <Zwaarddijk> taken to ~trolling christian fora just for the sake of playing the game of exegesis/eisegesis
04:28:19 <Zwaarddijk> in general, I know the bible and christian history better than them anyway
04:29:04 <Zwaarddijk> I know the bible better than the other trolls too :|
04:29:21 <Zwaarddijk> mostly because of my interest for the talmud, though
04:29:57 <Zwaarddijk> and going off on tangents that you can spend days trying to figure out why that tangent even came up
04:30:59 <Zwaarddijk> in a way, I'm happy with the state of computational linguistics the day a computer actually can sort of understand what the talmud is on about
04:31:20 <Zwaarddijk> because then, we have conquered language games.
04:35:44 <Zwaarddijk> zen koans could maybe be another test case
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05:22:34 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Contrary to public belief[2], portals do not conserve momentum..
05:33:16 <pikhq_> ... Wut? There is a JVM written in .Net.
05:33:32 <pikhq_> I put a VM in your VM so you can VM while you VM.
05:41:45 <fizzie> It has an ahead-of-time compiler too if you don't wan't to VM while you VM. (Though "double JIT" does remind a bit of Battle Programmer Shirase.)
05:46:43 <pikhq_> I'm a bit surprised that it works *well* though.
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06:58:23 <cheater-> pikhq_: there's python written in python.
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07:08:59 <cheater-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qukCulDOJzg
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09:17:46 <fizzie> The glitziest thing ever: http://mbostock.github.com/d3/
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11:02:04 <fizzie> "Don't fret, it's been defretted"?
11:22:23 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | we're compiling via a functional language.
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12:21:07 <quintopia> so this japan thing...haven't read the news...is it an eqrthquake or a tsunami?
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12:37:31 <Ilari> The earthquake caused a tsunami
12:39:28 <Ilari> Reportedly the wave height at shore was ~10m in some places. Tsunami from earthquake top off at about 35m wave height (at shore). Some other mechanisms can generate huge tsunamis with 500m+(!!!) wave height.
12:40:22 <Ilari> Yes, over half a kilometer height.
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12:58:02 <Ilari> Not really. Even if it was a huge wall of water (~250m).
13:00:35 <Ilari> I think it was that...
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13:11:28 <nooga> microsoft xna is so lame
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13:12:33 <elliott_> 00:42:03 • Sgeo really, really wants to do what he's previously been told was impossible
13:12:35 <elliott_> 00:42:24 <zzo38> Sgeo: What things are that?
13:12:37 <elliott_> 00:42:38 <Sgeo> zzo38, booting into an .iso stored on the hard drive
13:12:39 <elliott_> Possible, but *only* with both bootloader and kernel support.
13:12:49 <elliott_> The kernel runs on the bare metal; it *must* know where to find its files, and thus know to mount the filesystem the iso is on and read it.
13:12:54 <elliott_> Only some versions of Linux can do this.
13:13:07 <elliott_> You can do this with GRUB 2 and some versions of Linux.
13:13:43 <elliott_> 01:23:51 <Sgeo> pikhq, you there/
13:13:43 <elliott_> 01:24:15 <Sgeo> Is there only one Suzumiya Haruhi movie, or is there another, meaning I'm risking watching in the wrong order?
13:13:43 <elliott_> Yes, this is _definitely_ a hard-to-Google question.
13:15:27 <Phantom_Hoover> It's like the guy in my school who allegedly posed as a girl in order to coerce naked pictures out of lesbians.
13:15:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Because there's a shortage of pictures of naked lesbians.
13:16:18 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: The only thing there are more naked pictures of than lesbians are people pretending to be lesbians.
13:17:10 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, even if he is some kind of lesbian photo connoisseur it's still way more effort than it's worth.
13:17:20 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU
13:17:59 <Phantom_Hoover> In other news I want to get the latest version of Chrome but I have no idea how.
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13:19:05 <elliott_> Chromium or Chrome, and which latest version?
13:19:18 <elliott_> i.e. for Chrome, which channel; for Chromium, which release or... uhhh... VCS commit
13:21:19 <Phantom_Hoover> It's just for a fractal viewer thing that looks interesting.
13:21:26 <elliott_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/WebGLScreenShot.png "Screenshot from a WebGL-based game running in a web browser"
13:22:20 <elliott_> Anyway, presumably you just want to switch to the official "ever-so-slightly-closed-source" Google version that updates through apt.
13:22:32 <elliott_> That's easier than building Chromium and keeping it up to date.
13:22:59 <elliott_> So remove Chromium and install the deb from http://www.google.com/chrome (it adds an apt repository, installs from it, and then self-destructs).
13:23:14 <elliott_> That's the stable channel, which should be fine (it has WebGL).
13:23:53 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, meet optbot. He died, but I revived him.
13:23:53 <optbot> elliott_: due to the way floating-point works
13:24:10 <elliott_> Yes. optbot's revival was entirely due to floating-point minutiae.
13:24:14 <optbot> elliott_: Version information is in manifest/*.ver within each zip. Contents
13:24:24 <optbot> elliott_: well so was this
13:25:01 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: He sets our channel topic every six hours and babbles in the same way.
13:25:06 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, in other stupid-ring-related news, turns out that rhenium looks awesome but has unknown toxicological effects, so it's unwise.
13:25:08 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Like the good old days.
13:25:14 <elliott_> EXCUSE ME, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OPTBOT.
13:25:23 <fungot> fizzie: my english is too bad, but if it did not exceed fnord per gcc session.' then x is done.
13:25:32 <elliott_> fizzie: Erm, considering that optbot inspired fungot's babbling in the first place... :P
13:25:33 <optbot> elliott_: well, at least they're honest
13:25:33 <fungot> elliott_: arcus translation is better, amiga or atari.
13:25:43 <elliott_> optbot: fizzie is NOT honest at all
13:25:44 <fizzie> It's still competition.
13:25:49 <optbot> elliott_: "nor will they nerver be integrated"?
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13:26:06 <elliott_> optbot: I hope you're never integrated with fungot, at least. That sounds wrong.
13:26:06 <optbot> elliott_: and he thought that the outside of that boundary-line was "definition" and then he asked me: What do you think is on the inside of that boundary?
13:26:06 <fungot> elliott_: or at least a month, and wasn't quite done ( modulo stuff like ipv4/ 6), still, i don't
13:26:21 <elliott_> optbot: You shouldn't talk to that other bot. He's a bad influence. Also crazy.
13:26:24 <optbot> elliott_: Also, you can't share Gmail messages.
13:26:28 <optbot> elliott_: Well, that was a fun experiment anyway :P
13:26:38 <elliott_> optbot: It may have been fun, but talking to fungot is NOT good for your health.
13:26:39 <fungot> elliott_: is that something you are looking for more bdb like approach. feeley doesn't agree. it " should replace the implementation of tco.
13:26:45 <elliott_> optbot: It's not good for your... Windows?
13:26:45 <optbot> elliott_: It's interesting how a beautiful mathematical framework can look all contrived and stuff once you turn it into a programming language
13:27:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Which beautiful mathematical framework is he talking about?
13:29:21 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: mv .config/chromium .config/google-chrome
13:29:32 <elliott_> (Remove the target directories first, obviously.)
13:29:37 <elliott_> (And close Chrome before all of it.)
13:29:45 <elliott_> <Phantom_Hoover> Which beautiful mathematical framework is he talking about?
13:29:50 <elliott_> How should I know? He's a bot.
13:30:50 <Phantom_Hoover> I know, but these are pulled from the logs, are they not?
13:32:32 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: How would I know?
13:34:09 <Phantom_Hoover> [[The "matter at hand" I was addressing was the double standard in ais523's argument, which is relevant, even if you don't understand why.]]
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13:38:36 <elliott_> how on earth does that moron still have 4 points
13:38:45 * elliott_ upvotes MatmaRex for being the only non-stupid reply
13:39:25 <elliott_> One of them is stupid, and the other one, MatmaRex wrote.
13:39:47 <elliott_> "To anyone who thinks this discovery has only dry theoretical importance, you're mistaken: It is no longer possible to righteously chastise people who claim to "program in HTML"." --the same idiot, top of the thread
13:39:56 <elliott_> The discovery could be said to only have "dry theoretical importance"...
13:40:03 <elliott_> yet it only "proves" something in "practice", not in "theory"...
13:40:23 <elliott_> Hey copumpkin, how's your downvote brigade these days
13:41:17 <elliott_> "Nope. While this very clever person was able to create a Turing-complete machine in HTML and CSS, it doesn't run by itself. The user has to repeatedly click to step it."
13:41:18 <elliott_> "ahem, Turing-completeness is about problems, not machines."
13:41:26 <elliott_> (Thankfully this one has -4 points.)
13:42:49 <elliott_> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/KindFact
13:43:02 <elliott_> I might just be saying that because Conor proposed it.
13:44:56 <quintopia> where is the whole html/css TC debate?
13:50:16 <quintopia> i thought it was going to be a bunch of folks being idiots. but it was just one guy.
13:51:03 <quintopia> i upvoted wreckerone though. very insightful
13:51:18 <elliott_> All six actives, of which ten or Finnish.
13:55:02 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.diamondworld.net/contentview.aspx?item=4242
13:55:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Based on the listed prices for the .5mm iridium wire, it actually seems relatively cheap to make a ring from it.
13:56:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Admittedly, metalworking costs need to be accounted for, but still.
13:59:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, I need to make the final draft of that Comic Sans essay.
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14:17:42 <elliott_> The Pythonistas are everywhere.
14:17:45 <elliott_> They could be in here right now.
14:18:14 <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart.
14:18:35 <cpressey> and she was like, "now try writing this in C!" howls of derisive laughter.
14:18:40 <elliott_> `addquote <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:20:02 <elliott_> optbot: What is your opinion on Python?
14:20:02 <optbot> elliott_: what direction?
14:20:09 <elliott_> cpressey: What direction is all the Python?
14:21:14 <cpressey> all i know is it's got me down
14:21:18 <optbot> elliott_: I found this, rather interesting: gopher://blubb.ch/11/software/fbf
14:21:20 <cpressey> http://en.literateprograms.org/Quine_%28Python%29
14:21:24 <elliott_> cpressey: Gopher will set you free.
14:21:49 <elliott_> "Another way of implementing quines is to have them print the contents of their own files. This is made possible by the fact that Python is an interpreted language; in C, such a quine would be impossible, due to the difference between source code and executable file."
14:21:59 <cpressey> the slide was only up for a moment but I believe it was one from that page:
14:22:01 <cpressey> a= 'print "a=",repr(a);print "exec(a)"'; exec(a)
14:22:01 <elliott_> I like the part where these programs aren't literate at all
14:22:15 <elliott_> cpressey: hmm, I'm not sure that counts as a cheat
14:22:31 <elliott_> well right, that's pretty lame
14:22:47 <elliott_> very lame, but maybe not a cheat quine (i'd reserve cheat for programs that read their own source literally)
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14:22:56 <elliott_> (with the empty program not being considered a quine at all)
14:23:02 <elliott_> cpressey: well there's that standard lisp quine
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14:23:27 <elliott_> ((lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))) '(lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))))
14:23:34 <elliott_> quote is... sorta... like repr... kinda
14:23:43 <elliott_> well, (list 'quote x) is sorta like repr. kinda.
14:23:46 <elliott_> hmm what was the one with eval
14:24:07 <elliott_> `addquote <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:24:22 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: RTFEverything else :P
14:24:23 <HackEgo> 333) <cpressey> the keynote speaker started her talk with a quine in python. this had nothing to do with the rest of her talk, so i guess it was there to prove that she's smart. <cpressey> it was a cheat-quine
14:24:29 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: < cpressey> a= 'print "a=",repr(a);print "exec(a)"'; exec(a)
14:24:52 <elliott_> scheme@(guile-user)> ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
14:24:53 <elliott_> $2 = ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
14:25:27 <elliott_> cpressey: that quine thing on the literate programmings site just makes it a worse rosettacode...
14:25:33 <elliott_> they don't even print the <<filename>>= part of the program!
14:25:35 <cpressey> it's not really that it was a cheat-quine that makes me ill. it's that it had nothing to do with the rest of the talk, wasn't explained, and was apparently lifted off a web page with no credit given
14:25:54 <elliott_> the language source itself is the result of compilation, that's like a "quine" that prints out its own machine code
14:25:59 <elliott_> (not that that wouldn't be impressive)
14:26:15 <elliott_> especially if it stored its own source and compiled it on the fly :)
14:26:24 <cpressey> the rest of the talk was dippy too, actually, and the whole thing is just pissing me off.
14:26:43 <elliott_> cpressey: you haven't told us what exciting pythonicity it was about!!!
14:26:58 <cpressey> elliott_: it was about... "data science"!
14:27:10 <elliott_> It's about doing science on data.
14:27:13 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, elliott_ wants a picture of Guido van Rossum looking disappointed.
14:27:18 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: ALREADY FOUND ONE
14:27:34 <elliott_> (Actually I'd like to see him angry now, please get Guido really angry and/or disappointed and snap a picture.)
14:28:03 <elliott_> And, um, made it force everyone to use tabs.
14:28:18 <elliott_> And since you work for Microsoft it's going into Visual Studio 2012.
14:28:27 <elliott_> And being advertised as Microsoft Python.
14:28:34 <elliott_> Actually don't say that, he might cry.
14:29:20 <elliott_> "I write voting machines that give every vote to the Republicans. And it wouldn't have been possible, without Python."
14:31:46 <cpressey> http://us.pycon.org/2011/blog/2010/10/02/first-pycon-keynote-speaker-announced-hilary-mason/
14:32:16 <elliott_> cpressey: "I'm a computer science professor, data scientist, and web geek."
14:32:22 <elliott_> cpressey: WHY IS SHE A PROFESSOR
14:32:31 <cpressey> this is not the talk, but it is another talk by the same person, this year, so you can experience the /kind/ of pain I just went through: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWszSUm-x2Y
14:32:32 <elliott_> "She has discovered two new species, loves to bake cookies, and asks way too many questions."
14:32:54 <elliott_> "[LOL IT'S EARLY COFFEE JOKE]"
14:32:59 <elliott_> cpressey: _must_ i sit through this?
14:33:04 <cpressey> i have to decide now whether to kill myself or go on a month-long binge of exotic drugs
14:33:24 <elliott_> "I want to talk about data, and data, and people who work with data."
14:34:35 <elliott_> WORK WITH DATA BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE FOR DATA
14:34:35 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: just be prepared... for anything
14:34:46 <elliott_> cpressey: Liveblog or no reinforcements!
14:34:55 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, we might be able to get a flash drive with GHC on it through.
14:35:22 <elliott_> Honestly, if I could be in either cpressey's position, or in the position of someone endangered by the events in Japan...
14:35:50 <elliott_> cpressey: Is GHC 6.4 acceptable? 7 won't fit on the hundred floppy disks we have allocated to the task.
14:36:06 <elliott_> They will be dropped from a helicopter. Please be prepared to dodge as the roof falls.
14:36:24 <cpressey> i dunno about liveblogging but i'll keep you abreast of any further sickness.
14:36:44 <elliott_> cpressey: We're going to drop them so as to hit as many Pythonistas as possible.
14:36:44 <cpressey> that's just what this needs, actually
14:36:58 <elliott_> cpressey: Please purchase a device that can read 3 1/2" floppy disks.
14:37:27 <cpressey> i'll see what i can do. need to dive back into the fray now
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14:38:35 <elliott_> pikhq_: So, is RTK3 actually worth buying, in the long run? 'TIS MONEYCOSTING
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14:42:42 <quintopia> whoa. cpressey came back for...minutes!
14:43:07 <elliott_> quintopia: he was here yesterday too.
14:43:13 <elliott_> we don't know how much longer he'll last.
14:43:27 <elliott_> the 100 floppies should get there in a few hours
14:43:30 <elliott_> quintopia: because pycon is the worst thing ever
14:43:58 <elliott_> PyCon, from the root words pyc (torture-rape) and on (demonic-place), is more commonly known as "Hell".
14:45:45 -!- sftp has joined.
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14:47:39 <cpressey> i only have an hour of battery
14:47:40 <elliott_> cpressey: * cpressey (~cpressey@conference/pycon/x-mcktulsevreylzfb) has joined #esoteric
14:47:52 <elliott_> cpressey: use webchat.freenode.net so it overrides it with your ip
14:48:03 <cpressey> i'm at a talk about celery. it's dull. THAT'S GOOD.
14:48:16 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: +b *!*@conference/pycon/*.
14:48:27 <elliott_> I wholeheartedly approve... but actually remove that :P
14:48:29 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: -b *!*@conference/pycon/*.
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14:49:03 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: OK YOU WANT TO REPLACE "YOU ARE" WITH "YOUR" AND "YOU'RE" WITH "YOUR" AND "THEIR" WITH "YOUR"
14:49:15 <elliott_> i'm going to assume he means literally celery
14:49:16 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: THEN REPLACE "YOUR" WITH "YORE"
14:49:16 <elliott_> not http://celeryproject.org/.
14:49:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, NO I WANT YOU TO HELP ME SAY HOW AWFUL COMIC SANS IS
14:49:37 <cpressey> yeah, and my laptop is freaking out
14:50:14 <elliott_> cpressey: it can smell the python.
14:50:23 <elliott_> I suggest uninstalling it from your system to reassure it.
14:50:49 <cpressey> quintopia: http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/1/
14:51:00 <Gregor> Comic Sans is French for "not funny"
14:51:13 <cpressey> i can barely type -keystrokes dropped or repeated
14:51:23 <elliott_> cpressey: SUDO APTITUDE PURGE PYTHON
14:51:33 <elliott_> -2.5 or -2.6 or -25 or whatever :P
14:51:39 <cpressey> i read that as "sudooooooooooooooooooooooooooo appetite"
14:51:44 <cpressey> well, not the ooooooo part so much
14:51:51 <Gregor> elliott_: I'm bending it a bit to make it grammatically meaningful :P
14:52:09 <elliott_> Sudo Appetite, the worst superhero.
14:52:30 <oklopol> "<Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, NO I WANT YOU TO HELP ME SAY HOW AWFUL COMIC SANS IS" <<< you're still on this?
14:52:40 <Gregor> Apatite, the best mineral there is.
14:53:42 <oklopol> i don't get any of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWszSUm-x2Y
14:54:20 <oklopol> except that amazing stuff is going on
14:54:21 <elliott_> How PyCon orders partners: Media, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond.
14:55:23 <cpressey> oklopol: is that the link i pasted earlier?
14:55:47 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, WHY ARE NEITHER IRIDIUM NOR RUTHENIUM ON THAT LIST
14:55:50 <nooga> Media, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Ladder.
14:57:00 <cpressey> oklopol: welcome to data science
14:57:34 <oklopol> i've taken courses like that
14:57:50 <oklopol> well. less hype, but anyhow something about data. i didn't get it.
14:59:02 <cpressey> i hould try to save battery for more objectionable moments than this talk.
14:59:23 <elliott_> and tell him to say hi to #esoteric
14:59:46 <Phantom_Hoover> So should I try to get APT guy into PyCon as an agent?
15:02:09 <elliott_> Meanwhile: http://i.imgur.com/rcna5.jpg
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15:04:14 <quintopia> so chris is interested in testing eh
15:04:41 <elliott_> quintopia: I have this feeling he's there because of his employer :P
15:05:32 <elliott_> quintopia: Cat's Eye Technologies.
15:06:29 <quintopia> well, he signed up for a testing BoF tomorrow...
15:07:10 <elliott_> he's just a code monkey afaik. which involves involves writing tests in this Enlightened Age
15:07:28 <elliott_> http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/
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15:09:03 <quintopia> code mlnkey seems okay. you have a chair and you get paid. then you can think about whatever you want when you get home
15:09:04 -!- copumpkin has joined.
15:10:03 <elliott_> quintopia: except it's Python.
15:10:11 <elliott_> You have to deal with the Pythonistas and their Pythonicness.
15:10:22 <elliott_> Extreme Programming Best Practices Design Patterns
15:10:40 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott_, I am so glad I have never heard anyone say these things.
15:10:52 <quintopia> YES, DEALING WITH PEOPLE IS THE DOWNSIDE OF THE JOB
15:11:04 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Just wait for the First International #esoteric Conference.
15:11:18 <elliott_> I'm going to give a talk on Extreme Design Pattern Practices and how to use your code fu to become a ninja rockstar.
15:11:25 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Whoa, that many?!
15:11:28 <quintopia> elliott_: eh fixing their code is easier than talking to them
15:12:01 <elliott_> Finland would be the "logical" choice to maximise participants, but then anywhere in that part of Europe is pretty much interchangable, flights take like 0 seconds and cost £0.
15:12:21 <elliott_> There's a non-negligible amount of American here after all.
15:12:33 <elliott_> Probably the UK or Finland would be the best choice... not that anyone would show up.
15:12:53 <quintopia> is it still normal to say a certain building is "in" a certain street in british english?
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15:13:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, coppro, elliott_, fizzie, Ilari, oklopol, me (I hope), pikhq_, quintopia, Sgeo (arguably), Vorpal (*very* loosely).
15:13:55 -!- blueraf has left (?).
15:14:41 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:14:46 <elliott_> Everyone else almost certainly doesn't care enough to come :-P
15:14:56 <augur> it was my birthday yesterday
15:15:04 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: fizzie would drag him along.
15:15:08 <elliott_> augur: Congratulations on not dying.
15:15:18 <elliott_> tswett: I wonder if that's a script.
15:15:22 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, congratulations, you have successfully allowed time to affect you.
15:15:26 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:16:08 <elliott_> oklopol: yes, just like a woman!
15:16:11 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:16:30 <elliott_> tswett: Either you have rand() calls, or that's not a script :P
15:16:32 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Y'know what normal users who aren't idiots do? Contribute to the Gregoran Somalian Relief Fund
15:16:58 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
15:17:41 <tswett> I don't respond to pings in this channel. Sorry.
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15:17:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, I AM SORRY BUT I AM NOT ALLOWED TO GIVE MONEY TO YOU BECAUSE YOU MIGHT BE A PAEDOPHILE
15:18:01 <elliott_> Donate to me; I'm *definitely* a paedophile.
15:18:41 <oklopol> haha you mean you like kids your own age
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15:19:59 <oklopol> wait tswett doesn't respond to pings on this channel?
15:20:06 <tswett> Come, now. I don't just say "dicks dicks dicks". I say specific things about dicks.
15:21:38 <Phantom_Hoover> `addquote <Warrigal> My penis is definitely way smaller than that.
15:21:39 <HackEgo> 333) <Warrigal> My penis is definitely way smaller than that.
15:22:14 <elliott_> In the the famous Sizes of Things as Compared to Tanner Swett's Genitalia?
15:22:24 <tswett> No, on reddit. I got about 70 karma points for that one.
15:22:37 <elliott_> And then promptly exchanged those karma points for money.
15:22:39 <tswett> Okay, 61 karma points.
15:22:54 <tswett> And yes, the wording and punctuation and everything are all correct.
15:23:00 <tswett> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/ch7hq/it_takes_7_seconds_for_food_to_pass_from_mouth_to/c0sk64d
15:23:19 <elliott_> Your penis is indeed definitely smaller than that 404.
15:23:31 <Gregor> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_actual_size.png
15:23:49 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: some guy once redeemed his karma for a golden reddit alien torso.
15:23:55 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: It can buy several goods such as blowjobs and blowjobs.
15:24:05 <tswett> Someone click on Gregor's link and tell me what it's a picture of. :P
15:24:08 <elliott_> It is a currency based on blowjobs.
15:24:30 <elliott_> tswett: It's a picture of your penis as compared to the sizes of other objects.
15:24:59 <elliott_> Gregor: Oh, that's an aerial? :P
15:25:19 <tswett> I can't tell what that big long thing on top is.
15:25:37 <elliott_> Scientists have yet to discover what the big long thing on top of tswett's penis is.
15:25:40 <tswett> I guess it's an aerial, like Gregor said.
15:25:55 <elliott_> tswett: Quick, go downvote ais523 and upvote __j_random_hacker! http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/g0d5g/breaking_news_html5css3_is_turing_complete/c1k03fg
15:26:01 <elliott_> Here I am using the psychological principle of reverse psychology.
15:26:10 <tswett> That thing's a good fifteen feet long.
15:26:18 <tswett> (Metric conversion: about 5 meters.)
15:27:13 <Gregor> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_really_actual_size.png
15:27:44 <tswett> Is that a picture of an HDTVA?
15:28:12 <tswett> Oh, it's a picture of this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hdtva&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8433157347537932007&sa=X&ei=ZUl6TZvfDsHirAGsleiQBg&ved=0CEAQ8wIwAg#
15:28:18 <elliott_> Gregor: Expect next picture to compare it to the Milky Way.
15:28:34 <tswett> Here's a better link to it: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?cid=8433157347537932007
15:29:26 <elliott_> (The aerial is slightly smaller)
15:29:35 <tswett> The next picture will compare it to itself.
15:29:55 <elliott_> tswett: Excuse me, having executed a successful Jew joke, the thread of discussion is now over.
15:30:09 <Gregor> elliott_: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/hdtva_the_one_true_and_real_actual_.png How'd yah know :P
15:30:12 <tswett> Is Gregor of Jewish descent?
15:30:23 <elliott_> tswett: You misspelled ``kikeular''.
15:30:49 <elliott_> Gregor: OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE, THEN YOUR NOSE, KTHX
15:30:52 <tswett> But "kike" isn't a Latin root ending in a consonant.
15:30:53 <oklopol> executing jews is NOT a joke
15:31:04 <elliott_> That Hubble picture would work too.
15:31:05 <oklopol> even if they're succesful jews.
15:31:10 <elliott_> http://www.firstpr.com.au/astrophysics/hubble-deep-field/Hubble-Deep-Field-1024-wide.jpg
15:31:20 <Gregor> elliott_: I made these YEARS ago :P
15:31:30 <elliott_> Gregor: You must complete the sequence.
15:31:50 <elliott_> Ending with it resting on top of your nose.
15:32:34 <oklopol> i'm so gonna go out to drink with some friends now
15:34:28 <elliott_> memetech.com now completely replaced.
15:34:39 <elliott_> I will have to attempt to contact the owner.
15:35:29 <elliott_> oiu manifesto + cap system pdf.
15:38:37 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: See http://web.archive.org/web/20080411221531/http://www.memetech.com/, though that lacks the cap stuff.
15:39:48 <Phantom_Hoover> You'd've thought that with all these people trying to make essentially the same OS, some tangible progress would have been made.
15:41:13 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: There's no way everyone's trying to make the same OS; the most common property is distinctness from Unix.
15:41:36 <elliott_> The fact that their bases (plural of basis!) share quite a bit of material is due only to the *sheer obviousness* of those ideas.
15:42:01 <elliott_> Yes, because you have to try hard to be stupid to invent a filesystem if you ignore Unix.
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15:48:57 <elliott_> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god. <Phantom_Hoover> I've become a metallurgy hipster. <Phantom_Hoover> Iridium is way too mainstream.
15:48:57 <HackEgo> 334) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god. <Phantom_Hoover> I've become a metallurgy hipster. <Phantom_Hoover> Iridium is way too mainstream.
15:52:32 <tswett> I know the tiniest bit about metalworking.
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15:52:53 <tswett> Metals melt when you get them hot enough. Liquid metals can be mixed.
15:53:10 <tswett> Metal is easier to work when it's hotter.
15:53:39 <tswett> When metal is cooled slowly, it ends up relatively soft; if it's cooled quickly, it ends up harder.
15:54:04 <elliott_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/HEUraniumC.jpg ;; perfect ring material
15:54:18 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, in case you missed it, I spent yesterday evening looking up platinum group metals and their practicality as rings.
15:55:10 <tswett> Which of the platinum group metals is the cheapest?
15:55:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Osmium looks really cool, but it has the obnoxious property of oxidising in air to a highly toxic gas.
15:55:37 <Phantom_Hoover> There's not really a single source that I can find that's grounded in reality.
15:56:18 <elliott_> [Name]... will you marry me? [PSSSSSSSSSSSHT] "Well, our love will persist beyond the grave."
15:56:42 <elliott_> (PSSSSSSSSSSSHT is the noise osmium makes when it oxidises into a highly toxic gas.)
15:56:57 <elliott_> OXIDISES INTO HIGHLY TOXIC GAS
15:57:01 -!- asiekierka has joined.
15:57:16 <Phantom_Hoover> But I still wouldn't want it around my finger for protracted periods.
15:57:17 <tswett> Looks like at the moment, palladium is in fact cheaper than platinum.
15:57:46 <elliott_> Palladium is quite the borings.
15:57:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Same goes for ruthenium, although it's normally electroplated AFAICT.
15:57:57 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: DEMAND RADON RING
15:58:27 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Demand solid radon ring.
15:58:47 <tswett> And rhodium appears to be more expensive than platinum.
15:58:49 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, I did find a source for iridium and osmium which listed prices.
15:59:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, rhodium is really rare and really useful, hence expensive.
15:59:49 <Phantom_Hoover> I found samples of osmium and ruthenium on eBay, although I suspect they'd be even harder to use than wire.
16:00:00 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: ^{286}Uut ring please.
16:00:10 <elliott_> Half-life of ~20s, that's good enough for anyone.
16:00:24 <Phantom_Hoover> (Rhenium has the second-highest melting point of any metal.)
16:00:53 <tswett> Roentgenium is more noble and more discovered than ununtrium.
16:01:10 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: the highest is tungsten, right?
16:01:17 <elliott_> tswett: On the other hand, your mom is more noble than ... things.
16:01:37 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: I really want a ring made out of CP.
16:01:39 <tswett> My chemistry teacher once said something like, "Why don't we make rings out of lithium? Because they would burn your hand off."
16:01:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, it does appear that others have considered rhenium rings, but it's still hipsterish enough.
16:01:59 <tswett> elliott_: made out of... carbon phosphide?
16:02:13 <elliott_> Also known by mainstreamers as CoPernicium.
16:02:23 <elliott_> Unfortunately for SOME reason it was assigned Cn instead of Cp.
16:03:10 <tswett> I wonder what the heaviest element with a Wikipedia article is.
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16:04:02 <cpressey> was at a talk about unit tests. it was relatively sane, so i listened.
16:04:12 <cpressey> i'm about to experience: http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/245/
16:04:36 <elliott_> cpressey: found a socket to charge yet?
16:04:38 <cpressey> yeah, i'm doing this one for your entertainment.
16:04:45 <tswett> Looks like it's untriseptium.
16:04:46 <elliott_> wow, this is a metapresentation.
16:04:51 <cpressey> and no, they haven't turned on me yet.
16:05:02 <elliott_> but have they turned you on?! obligatory, had to, move along
16:05:13 <tswett> Darn atomic instability. I want every possible chemical element to be possible.
16:05:29 <cpressey> there are two categories of talks, afaict: 'novice' and 'extreme'.
16:05:34 <elliott_> I WANT RING MADE OUT OF AN ALLOY OF EVERY SINGLE ELEMENT.
16:05:45 <elliott_> --http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/
16:05:59 <elliott_> this does not appear to be an extreme course. so maybe we can handle it.
16:06:22 <cpressey> all extreme talks are given in henry rollins style!
16:06:31 <elliott_> that's a pycon i could support.
16:07:20 <elliott_> cpressey: How much do we have to pay you to get you to run up on stage and yell about how unChristian this evil feminist tripe is?
16:08:12 <Phantom_Hoover> MAKE EVERYTHING OUT OF STUPIDLY RARE METALS THAT YOU GET FROM THEM
16:08:17 <elliott_> Phantom_Hoover: Read as "asteroid naming"; well, they already do theorems and stars and things.
16:08:33 <elliott_> I wonder what the most promiscuous possible alloy is.
16:09:39 <elliott_> I MEAN THE ONE WITH MOST CONSTITUENT ELEMENTS JEEZ
16:10:33 <cpressey> i have to wait for the most embarassing possible moment
16:16:50 <elliott_> 13:29:59 <SimonRC> Is there anything like the Internet WRT that affair?
16:16:50 <elliott_> 13:30:27 <SimonRC> I can't think other time that taking firm action against a problem makes it 100,000 times worse.
16:16:50 <elliott_> Sure thing, Barbara Streisand.
16:32:01 <elliott_> 08:31:10 <pikhq> There is no OS but GNU, and Linux is one of it's kernels.
16:32:39 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, YOU ARE NO LONGER A MEMBER OF THE SET OF COOL PEOPLE
16:47:12 <elliott_> 13:30:08 <CakeProphet> ...you made a program that...
16:47:12 <elliott_> 13:30:10 <CakeProphet> prints itself?
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17:04:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | could it be rescripted so that the ball, as soon as it hits it, just disappears and you lose a point?.
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17:20:44 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#The_language_defined_by_the_Revised_Revised_Revised_Revised_Revised_Report_on_the_Algorithmic_Language_Scheme
17:20:46 <elliott> NEW DEADFISH IMPLEMENTATION
17:22:12 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | !kill 2.
17:27:45 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | the protocol must be a valid URI protocol..
17:27:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Yeah, I suppose it could be used like that.
17:27:48 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip.
17:28:07 <Phantom_Hoover> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:28:07 <lambdabot> (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:28:18 <Phantom_Hoover> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:28:19 <lambdabot> (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:29:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's unpl.
17:30:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It expands things that are used in pointfree code.
17:30:14 <elliott> flip is one of those things.
17:30:15 <lambdabot> forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b
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17:34:08 <oerjan> argh the bubble wrap of topics
17:34:22 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:34:23 <lambdabot> (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:34:39 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:34:39 <lambdabot> (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h))
17:34:41 <oerjan> elliott: i thought you might which is the only reason i resisted
17:34:58 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip
17:35:00 <elliott> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip
17:35:39 <oerjan> flip and fmap, are there any others like that...
17:37:15 <oerjan> flip flip flip flip = flip flip flip, surely...
17:37:49 <oerjan> oh right that's what you said
17:38:01 * oerjan read it as flip^(3+n) === flip^n
17:46:57 <elliott> oerjan: quick, we need more deadfish implementations!!!!!
17:48:37 <oerjan> i'm afraid my dinner is not useful for computation. not until the results reach my brain, anyhow.
17:49:50 <elliott> oerjan: no no i just mean it in general
17:49:59 <elliott> i've done the language defined by the Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme
17:50:06 <elliott> but we only have 22 implementations
17:50:22 <oerjan> ah. i may have a certain experience in the matter.
17:50:34 <elliott> cpressey has done falcon :D
17:51:05 <elliott> it doesn't use oob though :(
17:51:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Most awesomely crazy Falcon idea: store numbers in arrays of arbitrary objects.
17:52:08 <elliott> Store a natural as a list of log_2 random numbers.
17:52:20 <elliott> Or even log_2(n) empty lists.
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17:59:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Waste of time (I'm in #falcon preemptively, mind you)
18:07:08 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:07:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit, Falcon always beats me when it comes down to stupidity.
18:07:54 <elliott> Drag to level, beat with experience, etc.
18:08:33 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, incidentally, I have decided that iridium is a pretty terrible investment.
18:10:06 <Phantom_Hoover> As the suppliers I have found have been technical suppliers.
18:10:45 <Phantom_Hoover> So I wouldn't count on the prices being either stable or indicative of the "worth".
18:11:05 -!- cpressey has joined.
18:11:14 <Phantom_Hoover> As actually refining the rarer platinum group metals is a very tricky process.
18:11:32 <cpressey> "a raw string cannot end in a single backslash (since the backslash would escape the following quote character)"
18:11:42 <elliott> <cpressey> "a raw string cannot end in a single backslash (since the backslash would escape the following quote character)"
18:11:50 <elliott> I like how raw strings aren't actually raw, mind you.
18:11:55 <cpressey> literal string syntax in python is a trainwreck
18:12:29 <elliott> cpressey: I kinda liked James Hague's idea when he suggested that strings should have no escapes at all, and that \n should be added "by default" with printing functions...
18:12:38 <elliott> With a few symbolic constants for the few common ones.
18:12:45 <elliott> (And chr() or similar for the rest.)
18:12:55 <elliott> I print \n quite a lot, so I'm not sure I totally agree. Maybe just have string interpolation, but no escales.
18:13:06 <elliott> So if char syntax has \n, you'd say ${'\n'} or whatever for a newline.
18:13:10 <elliott> ($ is a bad choice though.)
18:13:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Same way you put other escapes.
18:13:30 <cpressey> i'm at the end of my first "extreme" talk; i couldn't find much difference with the "novice" talks in terms of complexity of content, but the speaker *does* have a kind of gravelly voice
18:13:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes it is...
18:14:14 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought the point is that "foo\n" => "foo\n" and the \n is only substituted when printed?
18:14:42 <elliott> For reference, my jaw is currently situated on the floor.
18:14:52 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> cpressey: I kinda liked James Hague's idea when he suggested that strings should have no escapes at all, and that \n should be added "by default" with printing functions...
18:15:09 <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:15:10 <cpressey> i may be misremembering his post
18:15:30 <elliott> http://prog21.dadgum.com/76.html
18:16:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No. That's an unbelievably terrible idea.
18:16:17 <cpressey> i don't like the idea of i/o functions "executing" escape sequences
18:16:24 <cpressey> well, or maybe i do, but i don't think so
18:16:32 <elliott> Maybe if it was some kind of expand() function.
18:16:37 <elliott> <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:16:38 <elliott> <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:16:38 <elliott> <elliott> Uhh, that just means that print(x) should add a newline.
18:16:51 <cpressey> expand() function seems to make more sense, but... lazy/streaming
18:16:52 <elliott> And lawd knows everyone loves printf!!
18:16:59 <Phantom_Hoover> So it is a message to the print function, not the parser?
18:17:04 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: THERE IS NO \N
18:17:09 <elliott> print(x) := print(x); printnewline()
18:18:29 <elliott> hmm, i should write a real forth os rather than trying to finish this 510-byte thing :)
18:18:38 <elliott> butbutbut i almost have a compiler...
18:18:41 <cpressey> in haskell it should be Ln . putStr
18:18:52 <elliott> cpressey: that... almost makes sense
18:19:02 <elliott> data Output = Str String | Ln [String]?
18:19:35 <cpressey> well, Ln x just appends a newline to the string x... then you putStr it.
18:19:55 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's ugly.
18:20:00 <elliott> cpressey: that would be "putStr . Ln".
18:20:02 <Phantom_Hoover> I know you have high standards, but how can you mess up an output function that simple?
18:20:06 <elliott> but then Ln would have to be a constructor, not a function.
18:20:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: IT'S NOT A BAD FUNCTION
18:20:18 <elliott> You're misinterpreting simple statements a lot today :P
18:20:23 <cpressey> elliott: that's what i wanted to write, but i forgot which compose operator did which
18:20:33 <elliott> cpressey: there is no operator for the other way around (unless you define one)
18:20:36 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, at no point did you indicate you were talking about the name rather than the function.
18:20:49 <cpressey> wonder what i was thinking of then
18:20:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Considering that cpressey's and my points were names...
18:20:53 <elliott> <elliott> cpressey: haskell
18:21:11 <elliott> Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: Scala?
18:21:17 <elliott> Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: F#?
18:21:20 <elliott> Demonic Functional Language from Hell? AKA: Haskell?
18:21:34 <elliott> cpressey: everyone must learn Scala, or every other language
18:21:38 <cpressey> Scala is the hot new thing because no one uses it
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18:24:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I cannot attribute Sgeo's behaviour to anything other than languagephilia.
18:25:28 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, "neo" in the sense of "I haven't used it before".
18:28:08 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=271521
18:29:51 <variable> Chuck Norris is the only person who knows how bad jokes about him ar
18:30:24 <elliott> Order Chuck's brand new book, "The Official Chuck Norris Fact Book: 101 of Chuck's Favorite Facts and Stories"
18:30:24 <elliott> Read more: U.S. public schools: Progressive indoctrination camps http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=271521#ixzz1GJtbVKvc
18:30:27 -!- cheater00 has joined.
18:30:56 <variable> Phantom_Hoover: Re is a chemical. That is all :-)
18:32:42 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:37:45 <tswett> http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=878UP&x=0&y=0
18:38:05 <tswett> Serial number A-113. Model "CARL FREDRECKSENS". Experimental balloon-type aircraft.
18:44:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
18:44:27 <tswett> Of course, the picture is much more interesting than that information.
18:45:54 <elliott> tswett: I like the part where you didn't show us a picture.
18:45:54 <tswett> http://i.imgur.com/tC1aZ.jpg
18:46:32 <tswett> It would be kind of silly if it weren't real.
18:46:32 <elliott> hmmbut, i thought some totally sciency people concluded you'd need like, so many balloons :|
18:46:35 <elliott> how can i believe this picture.
18:46:45 <tswett> "Hey, we made an imaginary thing based on an imaginary thing. Isn't that awesome?"
18:46:51 <tswett> I suppose the house is really light or something.
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18:47:58 <tswett> Besides, these balloons are big.
18:48:42 <elliott> That's what... she... said?
18:48:46 <elliott> In response to seeing that picture.
18:55:04 <oerjan> <elliott> cpressey: there is no operator for the other way around (unless you define one) <-- Control.Arrow.>>>
18:55:20 <elliott> oerjan: yeah, if you're an elitist academician
18:57:07 <tswett> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
18:57:07 <lambdabot> (\ cg cj -> cg cj (\ g h i -> g i h))
18:57:29 <tswett> @unpl flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
18:57:29 <lambdabot> (\ cj cm -> cj cm (\ g h i -> g i h))
18:57:46 <tswett> @type flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip flip
18:58:47 <tswett> @unpl flip flip flip flip
18:58:56 <tswett> It looks like flip flip flip = flip flip flip flip.
18:58:59 <elliott> flip flip flip flip === (flip flip) flip flip === flip flip flip
18:59:22 <elliott> flip flip flip X === (flip flip) flip X === flip X flip.
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19:00:02 <tswett> But flip^(3+n) === flip^n means that this thing has period 3. It doesn't; it has period 1 starting at 3.
19:00:48 <elliott> You may now commit seppuku.
19:00:53 <tswett> Let n = 1 in "flip^(3+n) === flip^n". Tell me what you get.
19:00:54 -!- Deewiant has joined.
19:01:28 <elliott> I meant === flip^3, of course.
19:01:53 -!- Gregor has set topic: Please coperate with this channel's strict diaeresis mark requirements | I couldn't think of a more relevant word with a diaeresis ... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/.
19:01:58 <elliott> tswett: Alternateively: NOPE IT'S RIGHT CLEARLY YOU'RE RETARDED
19:02:10 <tswett> You're right about one thing.
19:02:23 <tswett> At least one thing, I mean.
19:02:38 <tswett> Out of all the things you've ever said.
19:02:44 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | but you're only supposed to pass things in the char range or EOF as arguments to it.
19:02:49 <elliott> Gregor: Excuse me, optbot has returned.
19:02:49 <optbot> elliott: [1 % 2,1 % 8,0 % 1,(-1) % 192,0 % 1,1 % 2880,0 % 1,(-17) % 645120,0 % 1,31 % 14515200,0 % 1,(-691) % 3832012800,0 % 1,5461 % 5115781120,0 % 1,(-929569) % 64134053888,0 % 1,(-3202291) % 3593732096,0 % 1,221930581 % 16817061888,0 % 1,(-4722116521) % 2090860544,0 % 1,968383680827 % 12415139840,0 % 1,(-14717667114151) % 7415529472,0 % 1,2093660879252671 % 11005853696,0 % 1,86125672563201181 % 5637144576,0 % 1]
19:02:56 <elliott> Please follow Optbot Topic Policy, i.e. HE OWNZ UR SHIT
19:03:05 <elliott> (Note: POLICY NOT ACTUALLY A POLICY)
19:03:09 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | doesn't work..
19:03:16 -!- Gregor has set channel mode: +t.
19:03:16 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -t.
19:03:36 <Gregor> My @ gives me no real power :(
19:03:42 -!- Gregor has set topic: Please coperate with this channel's strict diaeresis mark requirements | I couldn't think of a more relevant word with a diaeresis ... | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/.
19:06:13 <elliott> you know oerjan, I'm fairly sure you can add ops to chanserv >:D
19:06:31 <oerjan> yes, i'm pretty sure i can do that
19:07:14 <elliott> so you should do that now.
19:07:25 <oerjan> i'm not quite so sure of that.
19:07:52 <Gregor> You could add the relevant access to, say, some long-lasting, relatively-mild-mannered user with a capitalized nick.
19:08:12 <oerjan> yes i could also do that.
19:08:22 <elliott> You should give it to oklopol
19:08:34 <pikhq_> You could also add the access to fungot, our most important member.
19:08:34 <fungot> pikhq_: that's not too difficult to implement than malloc.
19:08:49 <elliott> oerjan: Wait, give it to Deewiant. or ais523. Nobody could ever possibly object to them ever.
19:08:58 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: For which purposes?
19:09:51 <Gregor> I object to Deewiant. He's a deewiant.
19:10:07 <Gregor> I think he might be Russian too.
19:10:27 <oerjan> you may notice lament is already an op.
19:10:38 <Gregor> I was making a bad joke w.r.t. v->w :P
19:10:44 <tswett> Gregor: I'm guessing it wouldn't be very hilarious if you opped me. How can I convince you that opping me is what you want?
19:10:45 <elliott> he's in Finland. same thing
19:11:04 <elliott> Ah, tswett approach to the AI Box problem: "Hey human, how can I convince you to let me out of the box?"
19:11:14 <oerjan> Gregor: i am not aware that russian uses overly much w's...
19:11:18 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Iridum. Covered in precious gemstones.
19:11:28 <pikhq_> (avoid the diamond; those suckers have no real value)
19:11:36 <tswett> elliott: it's a good approach to some things that are not the AI Box problem.
19:11:42 <elliott> tswett: But not getting opped :P
19:11:51 <tswett> I don't know. Gregor hasn't spoken yet.
19:11:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
19:11:58 <tswett> Maybe he's planning to op me but hasn't gotten around to it.
19:14:43 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, the ultra-relevant quote in question is <HackEgo> 334) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god. <Phantom_Hoover> I've become a metallurgy hipster. <Phantom_Hoover> Iridium is way too mainstream.
19:15:09 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BitZ fml
19:15:12 <tswett> For a non-mainstream metal, I suggest...
19:15:19 <oerjan> I was into iridium before the stars started producing it.
19:15:57 <pikhq_> I was into hydrogen before atoms.
19:17:21 <tswett> Osmium... that's definitely way too mainstream.
19:17:28 <elliott> But Osmium was Phantom_Hoover's favourite!
19:17:37 <elliott> Unfortunately, Douchebag Osmium:
19:17:48 <elliott> OXIDISES INTO HIGHLY TOXIC GAS
19:18:07 <pikhq_> How's about some californium?
19:18:09 <elliott> That's multiple letters away from semen!
19:18:19 <tswett> If you want a non-mainstream metal, go with samarium.
19:18:28 <elliott> Go with [insert metal band here]
19:18:50 * pikhq_ can't name any non-mainstream metal bands, so.
19:19:13 <pikhq_> I mean, sure I could *say*, say, Black Sabbath, but that's pretty mainstream.
19:19:43 <optbot> tswett: for some the length mod 3 might be important ;)
19:19:45 <elliott> optbot: Talk to tswett. He's lonely.
19:19:45 <optbot> elliott: Universe hates you?
19:19:49 <pikhq_> Alt rock ≠ metal, you jerk. :P
19:20:04 <elliott> pikhq_: And Nirvana =/=/==/=/=/ alt rock!
19:20:31 <tswett> optbot: say something coincidentally relevant to the situation, so I can feel awesome!
19:20:31 <optbot> tswett: Seems to work.
19:20:41 <elliott> It works to make you feel awesome.
19:20:48 <elliott> Anyway, it's not coincidence, it's strong AI.
19:21:08 <pikhq_> elliott: You crazy Brits.
19:21:11 <tswett> I think a quote from the movie Rango is appropriate here.
19:21:15 <tswett> "Damn." --Rattlesnake Jake, "Rango"
19:21:35 <elliott> I think a quote from the movie [insert movie here] is appropriate here.
19:21:43 <elliott> "Yes." --[character], "[movie]"
19:21:59 <tswett> Hey, that's also a Rango quote.
19:22:09 <tswett> "Yes." --Rango, "Rango"
19:22:27 <tswett> I think Rango also said that.
19:22:41 <tswett> Though he might have said "them" instead.
19:22:48 <elliott> Maybe he didn't and you just didn't notice.
19:22:51 <elliott> (As part of a line, of course.)
19:22:53 <tswett> Oh, he did say "the" in some other instance.
19:23:04 <elliott> tswett: MAYBE HE NEVER USED THE WORD "E" THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE MOVIE
19:23:13 <tswett> He said, "I'm the law." Or maybe, "I am the law."
19:23:35 <Gregor> "I [...] love [...] s [...] e [...] x [...] with [...] men." -- Rango, "Rango"
19:23:53 <tswett> I don't know if he said "love" or any word containing "x".
19:24:07 <tswett> He probably said "with", but I don't know about "men".
19:24:18 <pikhq_> "[...] lay with men as you would lay with woman [...]" — God.
19:24:19 <Gregor> Note: I haven't watched the movie, and don't intend to :P
19:25:02 <elliott> "Stone [...] women." --God
19:25:21 <tswett> Oh, he definitely said "with". The phrase "with just one bullet" was said many times by multiple characters.
19:25:38 <pikhq_> elliott: I'm pretty sure you can just go with "Stone women [...]".
19:25:51 <elliott> "[...]get [...] stone[...]d." --God
19:26:02 <pikhq_> As you are suppose to stone women who exhibit infidelity.
19:26:18 <elliott> Yah, but is it in that order i nthe Bible :P
19:26:29 <pikhq_> In at least one translation.
19:26:44 <tswett> In the Bible, it's more like "[...] nmw ntS".
19:26:52 <tswett> Except the words are Hebrew.
19:27:07 <elliott> tswett: What did this channel ever do without your stunning intellect? :-P
19:27:10 <pikhq_> tswett: Thy win is evident.
19:27:23 <tswett> elliott: you'd probably all be dead.
19:27:25 <elliott> Note: "nmw ntS" is a common Welsh idiom.
19:27:36 <tswett> Actually, no. You'd probably all be alive if it weren't for me.
19:27:46 <elliott> tswett: Darn, I hate being dead.
19:27:48 <tswett> Don't be ridiculous. "ntS" doesn't have any vowels.
19:28:01 <elliott> Um, the joke is that Welsh has no vowels :P
19:28:07 <elliott> I expect you realise this.
19:28:18 <pikhq_> Sadly, it actually does.
19:28:23 <pikhq_> Vowels such as "w" and "y".
19:28:33 <tswett> My joke is that I'm recognizing your joke and choosing to ignore it.
19:28:53 <tswett> You can tell that I got the joke by the fact that I picked "ntS", which indeed has no vowels, rather than "nmw", which does have a vowel. :P
19:29:53 <oerjan> <elliott> Note: "nmw ntS" is a common Welsh idiom. <-- WHY ISN'T NDRYLLIOG HERE TO CONFIRM...
19:30:00 <tswett> You cannot effectively stone me! I am this big!
19:30:08 * tswett holds up his hands, a certain distance apart.
19:30:10 <elliott> tswett: We have SO MUCH CANNABIS.
19:30:28 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Smelly. Unwashed.
19:30:30 <oerjan> tswett: by that do you mean you're too small for us to hit you, or to big for the stones to have any effect?
19:30:50 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yeah, but they hate the English too so I need to like them to count as Scottish.
19:30:53 * oerjan casually picks up a nearby mountain.
19:30:56 <pikhq_> At least the Normans had the common decency to *invade*, rather than just be wine-drinking artfags mocking us! :P
19:31:19 <tswett> oerjan: just a casual question: where are you, relative to the mountain, as you're holding it?
19:31:24 <elliott> pikhq_: Please refrain from usage of "us", Americunt.
19:31:35 <pikhq_> elliott: I'm of British descent, now shaddup.
19:31:41 <elliott> pikhq_: SO'S EVERY FUCKING AMERICAN X-D
19:31:53 <elliott> GREGOR is of British descent.
19:31:55 <pikhq_> elliott: German is the most common ancestry.
19:31:58 <elliott> Yet shows no signs of ``humour''.
19:32:11 <elliott> (He unfortunately shows irritating symptoms of ``humor'' on a regular basis.)
19:32:15 <tswett> I have no idea what sort of descent I'm of. It must be mostly European, since I seem to be white.
19:32:40 <pikhq_> tswett: Definitely South African.
19:32:46 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> (Bloody French, never came through for us.) <-- i vaguely recall reading recently they _did_ try to help some scottish faction against the english at one time...
19:32:53 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: England.
19:32:54 <tswett> There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation.
19:33:05 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, there's something called the "Auld Alliance" but I never actually found out what it entailed.
19:33:09 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Worcestershire, to be specific.
19:33:35 <elliott> `addquote <tswett> There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation.
19:33:38 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Worcester, to be even more specific.
19:33:40 <HackEgo> 335) <tswett> There are white Africans out there, but, you know. A black swan in the hand does not imply causation.
19:33:42 <elliott> What is it with crazy people and being quotable.
19:33:55 <tswett> pikhq_: your ancestors are from Worcester? That would explain a lot.
19:34:02 <oerjan> <tswett> oerjan: just a casual question: where are you, relative to the mountain, as you're holding it? <-- as i'm using the famed munchhausen method, i am above it.
19:34:08 <Phantom_Hoover> But there were all kinds of weird olde-European alliancy things, like Queen Mary marrying the dauphin.
19:34:09 <pikhq_> tswett: Yes, hence the last name of "Worcester".
19:34:32 * tswett climbs on top of the mountain and shoots oerjan.
19:35:00 <elliott> Gregor: -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 0 2011-01-13 23:45 11.02.29
19:35:05 <tswett> Gee, I sure hope there are no hawks up here. That would make me really regret this piece of gratuitous exposition.
19:36:14 <oerjan> <elliott> What is it with crazy people and being quotable. <-- now is _that_ correlation or causation?
19:37:27 <tswett> oerjan: yes, hawks. They're the only thing mentioned in the movie that I'm afraid of.
19:37:53 <elliott> oerjan: hmm for arrow purposes (a,b) behaves like (\x -> if x then b else a), right?
19:37:55 <tswett> Why did they mention my fears in that movie? I'm not a movie character.
19:38:06 <elliott> can't have polymorphic return.
19:38:13 <elliott> Bool -> Either a b, then. except that's not right either.
19:38:28 <elliott> (a,b) acts like how you do tuples in LC, then :-P
19:38:28 <oerjan> tswett: in fact you were lucky, when you shot me i briefly lost my grip and the mountain fell and crushed some hawks.
19:38:36 <oerjan> also a small city, but never mind.
19:39:22 <elliott> oerjan: (a,b) acts like (\x. x a b) in the LC for Arrow instance purposes, right?
19:39:47 <elliott> tswett: http://goo.gl/IYgRQ
19:40:10 * tswett shoots at his computer screen.
19:40:33 <oerjan> elliott: oh you want a (,) instance? i don't think you can do that as both type arguments are covariant...
19:40:47 <elliott> oerjan: err ((,) t) is an arrow.
19:40:52 <lambdabot> forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c b' c'. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a b' c' -> a (b, b') (c, c')
19:41:00 <lambdabot> forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c c'. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c')
19:41:02 <oerjan> elliott: arrows take _two_ type arguments
19:41:10 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t2 -> t'
19:41:29 <oerjan> elliott: how in the world would you implement arr
19:41:31 <elliott> well, right, you can't do arr and pure :D
19:41:39 <elliott> oerjan: i just kinda assumed ;(
19:41:49 <elliott> because of all the *** and &&&s involving tuples :D
19:41:52 <oerjan> elliott: it's essentially a monad, Writer
19:42:12 <elliott> oerjan: arr f = (x, f x) where x = undefined
19:42:15 <pikhq_> We need to convince Kevin Bacon to do a movie with a bunch of mathematicians as extras.
19:42:26 * pikhq_ wants someone to have an Erdős-Bacon number of 2!
19:42:30 <elliott> pikhq_: A film about Paul Erd\Hos, too.
19:42:38 <elliott> JOIN THIS FILM, INCREASE YOUR NUMBERS
19:42:50 <oerjan> elliott: the tuples are in _addition_ to the arrow type. also i'm pretty sure you're supposed to have arr id >>> x = x and such things
19:42:53 <elliott> * pikhq_ wants someone to have an Erdős-Bacon number of 2!
19:43:18 <elliott> oerjan: WELL OK MR SMARTY FANCY PANTS
19:43:18 <pikhq_> elliott: Actually, because of *just that* happening, Erdős has an Erdős-Bacon number of 3.
19:43:30 <elliott> pikhq_: I'm trying to COMBINE the concepts.
19:43:45 <elliott> omg, Er\Hdos and Bacon can have an Er\Hdos-Bacon number of 1.
19:43:47 <pikhq_> If only Kevin Bacon were in it.
19:43:55 <elliott> just make a KEvin Bacon film with stock footage of Erd\Hos.
19:44:04 <tswett> Is it Er\Hdos or Erd\Hos?
19:44:16 <oerjan> <tswett> Why did they mention my fears in that movie? I'm not a movie character. <-- synchronicity, duh
19:44:23 <pikhq_> Actually, can't get Kevin Bacon to have a Bacon number of 1; Erdős is dead.
19:44:37 <tswett> Is it Erdös or Erdõs? :P
19:45:00 <elliott> pikhq_: Anyway, appearing in a film with stock footage of Erd\Hos has been counted for your Erd\Hos number.
19:45:03 <pikhq_> tswett: It's Erdős, not Erdös. Erdős was Hungarian.
19:45:07 <elliott> So Bacon could easily get an Erd\Hos number of 1.
19:45:13 <elliott> And Erd\Hos a Bacon number of 1.
19:45:18 <elliott> Giving them both an Erd\Hos-Bacon number of 1.
19:46:15 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, but the Erd\Hos number is for papers, not films.
19:46:36 <elliott> Playing ping-pong with him should count!
19:46:44 <elliott> Or maybe only if you're doing it doubles, and he's on your side.
19:46:49 <oerjan> <elliott> omg, Er\Hdos and Bacon can have an Er\Hdos-Bacon number of 1. <-- i think you're missing the "joint paper" part...
19:47:05 <elliott> oerjan: the "films count" was used by someone fairly prominent or at least interesting. iirc.
19:47:59 <oerjan> elliott: someone desperate to get low erdős-bacon numbers, obviously
19:48:01 <elliott> "It seems that older historic figures such as Leonhard Euler (born 1707) do not have finite Erdős numbers." --Wikipedia
19:48:04 <elliott> augur: HOW FUNNY I MADE THAT JOKE TOO
19:48:11 <elliott> oerjan: it wasn't very low even counting that :D
19:48:21 <elliott> oerjan: it was tongue in cheek, but then so are Erd\Hos numbers.
19:48:22 <augur> elliott: yes that may be
19:48:35 <augur> elliott: but you werent suggesting he actually cum on your face or other body parts
19:48:45 <elliott> augur: i said women though, so probably you automatically ignored the line
19:48:54 <oerjan> <pikhq_> tswett: It's Erdős, not Erdös. Erdős was Hungarian. <-- mind you hungarian does have ö as well, long vs. short vowel.
19:49:50 <pikhq_> Still, it explains ő being valid.
19:50:14 <elliott> 19:43:32 <thematrixeatsyou> one thing that you wouldn't know: i have made two esoteric programming languages and i'm actually 15.
19:50:20 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:50:33 <oerjan> basically hungarian puts ´ on any vowel to make it long, if there are dots already they get replaced with ´'s.
20:00:48 -!- copumpkin has joined.
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20:02:00 <ais523> !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD
20:03:14 <elliott> somehow I've got myself into a veritable OS dev rut.
20:03:25 <elliott> (anywhere I can't printf debug counts as a rut)
20:03:26 <cheater00> i heard the ipad2 waiting line is real tough today
20:03:52 -!- pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
20:04:27 <ais523> oerjan: Hungarian also seems to use the letter y as an accent (after the letter, rather than on top of it which would be bizarre)
20:04:31 <elliott> you made egobot go the slow!
20:04:37 <ais523> it hasn't even started processing slowpoke yet
20:04:45 <ais523> also, slowpoke, despite its name, runs pretty quickly
20:04:47 <elliott> okind of like e or u on top of the letter instead of diaeresis
20:04:48 <ais523> much faster than waterfall3
20:04:52 <oerjan> ais523: that's for consonants, it uses lots of combined letters
20:05:07 <ais523> oerjan: ly, gy, ny, sz
20:05:10 <oerjan> gy and ty, but also sz, cs ...
20:05:28 <ais523> I don't remember seeing any of those when I actually went to Hungary
20:05:47 <oerjan> hm maybe i'm misremembering
20:05:49 <elliott> THE KEY TO BECOMING AN EXPERT
20:06:11 <elliott> "The difference between <PERMABLINK> and <BLINK> is that there is no </PERMABLINK>.
20:06:11 <elliott> Using <PERMABLINK> causes all Web sites people see after yours to blink. Forever."
20:07:06 <oerjan> confusingly sz is what most other countries would consider s, while s is similar to english sh.
20:07:25 <ais523> elliott: is that a zzo38 quote?
20:07:32 <oerjan> (remember that when pronouncing erdős)
20:07:36 <elliott> ais523: err, no, that would be a terrible zzo38 quote
20:07:46 <ais523> for English loanwords, they actually transliterate s into sz
20:07:52 <ais523> so you see shops marked "szupermarket"
20:09:04 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:09:21 -!- EgoBot has joined.
20:09:24 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:09:43 <ais523> it was halfway through running my relatively simple program, too
20:09:48 <ais523> !bfjoust slowpoke http://sprunge.us/hcQD
20:09:49 <cheater00> ais523: yeah, it's funny to hear people try to pronounce Riesz theorem
20:09:50 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined.
20:09:51 <elliott> CHAINLANCE: EXCELLENT NON-BUGGY WIN
20:10:01 <elliott> it crashed EgoBot, i can be as sarcastic as i like now
20:11:08 <ais523> elliott: is its debug output as pretty as juiced?
20:11:13 <oerjan> <elliott> it's ``humour'' <-- zzo38 sometimes says things which one might detect as humor. not necessarily what most people would consider humor, but humor nonetheless. and i think i've chuckled at some time.
20:11:22 <elliott> ais523: the most prettiest. well it could be.
20:11:27 <elliott> oerjan: yes but it's unintentional :)
20:11:32 <Gregor> <elliott> Gregor: -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 0 2011-01-13 23:45 11.02.29 <elliott> Gregor: hg fail // hg fail how?
20:11:37 <elliott> and wouldn't be punctuated in such a way as to draw attention to the humour
20:11:38 <ais523> also, I don't see why we don't post all these BF Joust interps rather than posting them somewhere
20:11:47 <elliott> it created an empty 11.02.29 file
20:11:49 <Gregor> elliott: That's more like it :P
20:11:50 <oerjan> elliott: no i mean he says things that are obviously _meant_ to be humor.
20:11:55 <elliott> ais523: <ais523> also, I don't see why we don't post all these BF Joust interps rather than posting them somewhere
20:12:05 <ais523> umm, rather than keeping them secret
20:12:09 <oerjan> it's rare, but i'm sure i've seen it.
20:12:14 <elliott> oerjan: I have a strong feeling those are just bit-for-bit copies, or at least minor mutations
20:12:20 <ais523> people who want to try to run BF Joust programs locally atm have no option but to write their own interp
20:12:33 <elliott> ais523: err, chainlance is open source
20:12:37 <elliott> i dunno if it has an actual license
20:12:47 <ais523> I mean, I don't have a copy, nor any links to it
20:12:55 <elliott> ais523: that's your problem?
20:13:11 <elliott> http://git.zem.fi/chainlance -- but it's so buggy, why would you :)
20:13:37 <elliott> Perhaps I'll write a LANCELANCE, that compiles them to ANSI PORTABLE C.
20:13:52 <ais523> elliott: that's an HTML page
20:13:58 <oerjan> <cheater00> ais523: yeah, it's funny to hear people try to pronounce Riesz theorem <-- the trap here is you need to know whether the name is hungarian or polish, because polish uses s/sz in the exact opposite way
20:14:00 <ais523> I just tried to wget it...
20:14:22 * oerjan didn't actually know riesz was hungarian
20:14:26 <elliott> ais523: I'm not your personal web browser; you get to find the appropriate download link yourself.
20:14:40 <ais523> it's just that the link was misleading
20:14:49 <elliott> gitweb is hardly uncommon.
20:14:56 <elliott> In this case it seems that there's no convenient tarball link.
20:15:01 <elliott> I suspect git://git.zem.fi/chainlance may be right.
20:15:22 <elliott> But having a checkout of the git repository is more useful, as you can get new bugs fizzie introduces more conveniently.
20:15:23 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_slowpoke: 78.0
20:15:23 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_slowpoke: 78.0
20:15:47 <ais523> 22 | + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + | 78.0 | 36.4 | 22 | ais523_slowpoke.bfjoust
20:15:50 <ais523> wow that's a good score
20:15:51 <elliott> Gregor: YOU'RE NOT AT THE TOP, BAN AIS523
20:15:52 <Deewiant> Heh, it does better against allegro than any of my others
20:16:12 <elliott> !bfjoust elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1 <
20:16:16 <EgoBot> Score for elliott_elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1: 0.0
20:16:19 <Deewiant> ais523: Well, waterfall3 had the same wins, just less score :-P
20:16:23 <elliott> TIME TO WRITE ANTISLOWPOKE
20:16:29 <elliott> It'll get like 60 points just from beating it.
20:16:52 <ais523> 78 is still rather insane, given that allegro has 55
20:17:05 <ais523> btw, FFSPG /almost/ beats it
20:17:10 <elliott> ais523: prepare for death by egojsout!!!!!
20:17:12 <ais523> it generally loses by around 20 clock cycles
20:18:08 <elliott> Gregor: [>] is bugged in egojsout
20:18:45 <ais523> elliott: I doubt it, triplock3 uses and runs correctly there
20:18:57 <ais523> and waterfall3 embeds many copies of triplock3, and runs them sometimes
20:19:18 <elliott> hmm, how can one generate [>], >[>], >>[>], etc. with ()%?
20:19:23 <Gregor> It figures my computer would go bonkers right after I tpyo 78 as 89 X_X
20:19:26 <elliott> hmm, actually that's wrong
20:19:28 <ais523> you can't, I don't think
20:20:15 * oerjan is wondering if the ie in riesz should actually be pronounced as two vowels or not
20:20:38 <oerjan> it could be germanized, so just one
20:21:34 <oerjan> "He had an uncommon method of giving lectures: he entered the lecture hall with an assistant and a docent. The docent then began reading the proper passages from Riesz's handbook and the assistant inscribed the appropriate equations on the blackboard—while Riesz himself stood aside, nodding occasionally."
20:21:39 <cheater00> oerjan: Riesz is not a polish name tho :p
20:22:04 <cheater00> does this show up unstyled for y'all? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesz-Fischer_theorem
20:22:11 <oerjan> cheater00: yeah it looks like it could be either german or hungarian to me
20:22:43 <oerjan> cheater00: looks fine to me
20:23:04 <oerjan> cheater00: i think sz is archaic german spelling, so might still hang on in names?
20:23:32 <cheater00> if it's in a name then it's a foreign name.
20:23:44 <cheater00> germans are very strict about their spelling
20:23:52 <cheater00> even names get strict spelling updates
20:25:16 <elliott> ais523: can you get [-[--[---[---[---?
20:26:01 <elliott> ais523: gah, antislowpoke is hard; anti space_elevator was easy :)
20:26:12 <oerjan> cheater00: i said it was just fine. i think styles are separate files so might fail to load separately, try reloading.
20:26:37 <oerjan> has happened to me before
20:26:38 <cheater00> sorry, i thought you said Riesz looks fine to you
20:26:55 <cheater00> yeah the wird thing is that the style for all other pages in wikipedia works
20:27:00 <oerjan> cheater00: well that is also true
20:27:25 <oerjan> cheater00: shift-reload?
20:28:50 <elliott> ais523: well i can draw with slowpoke some of the time :D
20:29:06 <elliott> < < < < < = = = = = < = = = = < = = = = =
20:29:06 <elliott> < < < < < > > > < < < < < < < < < < < < <
20:29:13 <oerjan> <elliott> hmm, how can one generate [>], >[>], >>[>], etc. with ()%? <-- all uses of ()% expand to ()*...()* if you ignore [] matching
20:29:36 <elliott> i meant with nesting and stuff
20:29:43 <fizzie> "<elliott> unfortunately it sucks" "<elliott> http://git.zem.fi/chainlance -- but it's so buggy [..]" "<elliott> [...] you can get new bugs fizzie introduces more conveniently." ← are you trying to participate in some sort of "bitterest man on earth" competition here?
20:30:20 <elliott> fizzie: You crashed EgoBot, you deserve it :-)
20:31:10 <oerjan> <cheater00> germans are very strict about their spelling <-- ok germans, but hungarians etc. might still use archaic spellings for names that are originally german. on the other hand as ais523 said hungarians do replace s by sz in loanwords so it might be that too.
20:31:44 <elliott> wonder if I can ignore only _quotes_... although replies would be good too and i already wrote that :)
20:31:48 -!- cpressey has joined.
20:31:55 <cheater00> but then germans replace S with Z in their pronounciation
20:32:13 <oerjan> <elliott> i meant with nesting and stuff <-- i meant i don't see how to do it with plain ()* either.
20:32:24 <cpressey> i'm surrounded by... jythonistas.
20:32:35 <cpressey> or, at least, people attending a talk about jython
20:32:36 <elliott> oerjan: it needs to be like... ((>)*n[>])*(n=100) :-D
20:32:48 <cpressey> there seems to be less -ista here
20:33:03 <elliott> cpressey: those are javadroids :D
20:33:40 <oerjan> <cheater00> o no, shift worked <-- i believe shift causes it to ignore already cached content in case there's something wrong with it, while without shift doesn't if the page's modified date hasn't changed.
20:33:45 <cpressey> the intersection between the two sets seems rather small
20:35:20 <cpressey> there is like no one here. i was going to attend "extreme network programming in python" but it was really crowded and i forgot that i don't really care about low-level network protocols
20:36:38 <oerjan> and i'm not entirely sure, but without shift might also be less clever about following included content. (this is all just my impression.)
20:38:17 <ais523> <elliott> ais523: well i can draw with slowpoke some of the time :D <-- haha
20:38:27 <elliott> ais523: btw, optbot is back
20:38:27 <optbot> elliott: i'll try think more about it now
20:38:49 * oerjan thinks that was a zzo38 comment
20:39:46 <elliott> oklopol seems plausible, but it could also be any non-native speaker
20:39:57 <elliott> 05.06.07:14:09:02 <Keymaker> i'll try think more about it now
20:40:04 <cpressey> oklopol often seems quite implausible to me
20:40:22 <oerjan> cpressey: HE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST
20:40:29 <oerjan> it's all a bug in reality
20:40:32 <ais523> oh, how come I didn't notice cpressey was here earlier despite him having made lots of comments already?
20:40:48 <elliott> cpressey: do an impromptu talk on esolangs; start it with announcing that you are "THE... yes, THE ... Chris Pressey".
20:40:51 <cpressey> PlauseError: HE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST
20:40:53 <elliott> ais523: he's at PyCon, dying
20:41:14 <elliott> cpressey: when nobody applauses, throw something angrily and stomp off
20:41:35 <elliott> cpressey: come on, that's the best idea ever.
20:41:55 <cpressey> no, not being here is the best idea ever
20:42:01 <oerjan> elliott: an applausible idea
20:42:04 <elliott> cpressey: second-best, then.
20:42:30 <oerjan> cpressey: but it's the perfect setup for not being there afterward
20:42:40 <cpressey> i could post a card on the board for an "Esolang BoF" and watch no one else show up
20:43:39 <Gregor> Bestiality-only Family
20:43:40 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_a_Feather_(computing) lame
20:44:25 <Gregor> Gonna stick with Bestiality-only Family
20:44:37 <oerjan> hm is feather slightly named after twoducks?
20:45:15 <elliott> cpressey: ok, here's a less coherent idea: yell "ATTENTION EVERYBODY, THIS IS NOW AN UNCONFERENCE! That means you have to dance!", and start dancing
20:45:18 <elliott> punch everyone who does not dance
20:45:31 <elliott> now to increase my toxication levels to get something even better
20:46:04 <elliott> yeah ais523 better admire my amazing lingotalk.
20:46:06 <ais523> altohugh it might as well be
20:46:52 <oerjan> there's this fairy tale about the feather that turned into five hens
20:47:04 <elliott> 17:01:19 <GregorR> If you solve the game and make it so that the AI literally cannot lose, it's different. If you win, you suck, if you lose, you're brilliant.
20:47:04 <elliott> or if you win, you're *really* brilliant
20:48:09 <oerjan> http://hca.gilead.org.il/no_doubt.html
20:48:56 <elliott> oerjan: how big is your personal library?
20:49:29 <oerjan> elliott: it contains google
20:49:41 <elliott> oerjan: THE BIGGEST LIBRARY
20:50:01 <oerjan> although i probably have the andersen fairy tales stored away somewhere physically too
20:50:03 <elliott> I wonder if there are more pages on Google than there are pages on the internet (discounting infinite page generators, other search engines)
20:50:10 <elliott> and not counting 0-result googles
20:50:21 <elliott> but counting every string that return something
20:50:28 <elliott> (and _not_ assuming that google has crawled every single page)
20:51:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: well right, because you have at least the number of words in the page that return that page
20:51:18 <elliott> so it blows up quite quickly :)
20:51:29 <cpressey> also, google indexes its own results pages
20:51:33 <elliott> The Googles: bigger than the internets.
20:51:37 <elliott> cpressey: well, not counting that. but does it really?
20:52:01 <elliott> "Error 404 (Not Found)!!1" --title of Google's (new) 404 page
20:52:20 <Gregor> slowpoke's behavior looks stunningly similar to FFSPG :P
20:52:40 <elliott> as ais523 said, FFSPG almost wins
20:52:53 <elliott> loses by about 20 cycles IIRC
20:52:53 <cpressey> elliott: no. i am lying freely
20:52:57 <Gregor> Yeah, FFSPG is really close.
20:53:09 <elliott> Gregor: Fix it, even if it makes it slightly worse on other programs, you'll get a shitload of points for it :P
20:53:13 <oerjan> elliott: NEEDS MOAR ELEVEN
20:53:32 <elliott> Gregor: Although not in the fixed-point system I think.
20:53:33 <ais523> I could make it win by a lot rather than a little at the cost of performance against some other programs
20:53:47 <ais523> I didn't actually notice how close it was until after the program was already finished
20:57:09 <ais523> Gregor: slowpoke was just designed around "let me make a deep-poke program", but it turned out quite similar
20:57:24 <ais523> however, its decoy setup is rather different from FFSPG, it's a fundamentally different strategy there
20:57:27 <ais523> and its attack is different too
20:57:37 <elliott> Furry furry deep poking girls.
20:57:41 <elliott> Or is that where the SP name comes from.
20:58:29 <elliott> was the original poke deep?
20:58:51 <ais523> it stops as soon as it sees a nonzero cell
20:59:04 <ais523> whereas FFSPG and slowpoke look for other values near zero too
20:59:05 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
20:59:19 <ais523> the idea of poke was to find the opponent's first decoy and set up nine squares from it
20:59:26 <ais523> so as to be able to make more decoys, and attack sooner
20:59:47 <ais523> slowpoke uses the poke to know where to start attacking, but it has different secondary purposes
21:00:00 <ais523> for one, it tries to trip enemy tripwires
21:00:12 <ais523> causing them to screw up their synchronization by starting too early
21:00:24 <elliott> Deewiant: Quick, make [insert type of train here].
21:00:26 <ais523> and causing programs to think slowpoke is fast-rush and use an inappropriate response to it
21:00:48 <elliott> Or use allegro as a transition to music names :P
21:01:59 <ais523> <bhaak> wow, sometimes you wonder how many people respobsible for POSIX get shot by disgruntled programmers <Xjs> 362'881 <Xjs> why are you asking?
21:02:18 <ais523> ^ this explains why POSIX sucks, it was designed by a /very large/ committee
21:02:35 <elliott> rest in peace POSIX committee members.
21:03:09 <elliott> ais523: it was mostly defined by the ridonkulously huge committee of "every unix system vendor and hackers thereof"
21:03:24 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train (>)*8(>[-][-])*21
21:03:30 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train: 16.6
21:03:44 <elliott> Deewiant: Does it beat slowpoke?
21:03:54 * Sgeo wonders what a war between the Integrated Data Sentient Entity and an aware Haruhi would be like.
21:04:01 <Sgeo> Of course, that would destroy the premise
21:04:17 * Phantom_Hoover wonders how much thought has been put into clockwork computing.
21:04:17 <ais523> slowpoke can't beat fast rush programs on tapes shorter than 14 or so, unless it's lucky
21:04:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Not enough.
21:04:32 <cpressey> i guess this one's next --> http://us.pycon.org/2011/schedule/presentations/137/
21:04:42 <cpressey> i'll let you know if it's actually interesting :)
21:04:45 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
21:04:58 <ais523> wasn't the Analytical Engine clockwork?
21:05:18 <Phantom_Hoover> My children, let us consider the theological implications of Guido van Rossum.
21:05:36 <Sgeo> I've seen ++variable as a useful trick
21:05:43 <ais523> elliott: did you notice that I slightly tweaked waterfall3 to beat your copy of it, btw?
21:06:05 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:06:08 <ais523> you gave the wrong name
21:06:16 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:06:16 <Deewiant> elliott: You didn't specify that, you just wanted a train.
21:06:22 <elliott> Deewiant: I specify it now.
21:06:23 <ais523> 30 | + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + - + + + + + + - + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + | 53.4 | 24.6 | 30 | elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1.bfjoust
21:06:24 <ais523> 31 | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | 0.0 | -47.0 | 31 | elliott_elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1.bfjoust
21:06:32 <elliott> !bfjoust _ais523_waterfall3_1 <
21:06:43 <elliott> lesson: don't ever have a nick X_Y if someone has the nick X.
21:06:46 <EgoBot> Score for elliott__ais523_waterfall3_1: 0.0
21:06:47 <Deewiant> Where's the interpreter that's currently used on the hill
21:06:56 <elliott> Deewiant: http://git.zem.fi/home-of-bugs/
21:07:02 <elliott> (Or "chainlance", you decide.)
21:07:27 <ais523> anyway, I can't think of any way to tweak waterfall3 to beat slowpoke
21:07:55 <elliott> ais523: If I figure out how to do an antislowpoke, maybe it'll revive the hill strategy set a bit :)
21:07:55 <ais523> other than detecting it (not too hard) and switching to a strategy designed specifically to beat it
21:08:02 <elliott> interior_crocodile_alligator was surprisingly interesting.
21:08:17 <ais523> elliott: it was, it actually inspired me to invent the triplock
21:08:25 <ais523> well, I didn't invent it, Gregor did
21:08:28 <elliott> mostly it's because anti- programs don't really do anything logical
21:08:30 <ais523> but it inspired me to remember it existed
21:08:34 <elliott> which tends to confuse anything that does any thinking
21:08:57 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck&curid=1138&diff=21473&oldid=21035 SOME KINDLY RUSSIAN PLEASE RESPOND
21:09:00 <ais523> well, I think timing-based defence (defend9, etc) is more or less dead nowadays
21:09:46 <Deewiant> elliott: {chain,crank,gear}lance?
21:10:18 <elliott> Deewiant: It's the one that doesn't do any statistics output.
21:10:43 <ais523> elliott: what does defend8mwahahaha or whatever it's called do?
21:10:44 <elliott> "Carmack: Direct3D is now better than OpenGL" What joy.
21:10:54 <ais523> I tended to defeat it by accident too much, and never really looked into it
21:10:59 <elliott> ais523: I have nooooooo idea
21:11:08 <elliott> ais523: I probably just tweaked it randomly
21:11:12 <elliott> scores were nondeterministic back then
21:11:15 <ais523> (note: slowpoke wasn't tweaked to defeat anything particular, apart from one of the trains, and that was just a bugfix)
21:11:33 <ais523> (although I think I continued by tweaking it to beat one of the programs it was already beating more convincingly)
21:11:42 <elliott> does anyone here know nasm?
21:12:42 -!- cpressey has joined.
21:14:34 <elliott> Deewiant: Is nasm part of the everything you're an expert in?
21:14:40 <elliott> (Yes, I looked at the manual. :p)
21:15:48 <elliott> Oh, how thoroughly *weird*.
21:15:58 <elliott> '\' is how you do a backslash.
21:16:04 <elliott> '\\' is interpreted as a string, and packed into a word.
21:16:10 <elliott> fizzie: plz2be fix nasm mode to handle '\' :P
21:18:11 <Deewiant> !bfjoust antislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-])*21
21:18:13 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 13.1
21:18:57 <elliott> Deewiant: Does it work? :P
21:19:22 <Deewiant> Not always, but more often than not
21:24:09 <cpressey> and is in fact introducing it.
21:24:57 <cpressey> (he's getting to implementing it entirely using decorators)
21:28:43 <elliott> cpressey: Ask for Funge-98.
21:29:10 <elliott> also, a reverend saying fuck?! *gasp*
21:29:33 <cpressey> he didn't say its name, and his slide said "BRAINF*CK"
21:30:46 <pikhq> Expertise in fasm should carry over to nasm.
21:31:26 <pikhq> What with it being an masm-esque assembler.
21:32:32 <ais523> elliott: how do you do a single single quote? '''?
21:33:19 <Deewiant> Why not, '' is invalid, after all
21:33:27 <elliott> Deewiant: not necessarily true
21:33:45 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:33:46 <Deewiant> '' would just mean 0 and thus isn't very necessary
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21:48:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/218476/top-story-katamari-hack-will-destroy-your-productivity/
21:49:34 <elliott> It has multiplayer, the one thing Gregor was too stupid to do!
21:49:35 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: ... damn, hard to compete with that.
21:50:04 <elliott> SO IMPOSSIBLE TO DO WITH A LAPTOP
21:50:09 -!- cpressey has joined.
21:59:56 <cpressey> LOTS OF CAPS IN THIS CHANNEL LATELY
21:59:57 <fizzie> elliott, ais523, Deewiant: nasm does escape characters (with a quite traditional set of escapes) when you put the string in backquotes; so `\\` would do a backslash too. And I think the official way how you do a single quote is "'". (".." and '..' are completely equivalent, except you can put 's inside ""s and vice versa; and `..` works otherwise the same except enables those escapes.)
22:00:19 <elliott> fizzie: But nasm-mode fails at '\'! :p
22:00:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: havenworks is gone
22:00:58 <Gregor> I didn't make a mirror of havenworks :P
22:01:27 <elliott> ooh, can't wait for december
22:01:46 <Gregor> I did? Then I guess I did :P
22:01:51 <Gregor> I just don't remember :P
22:03:15 <ais523> fizzie: hmm, egostats hasn't updated like you said you were going to
22:03:43 <elliott> he didn't say would just could iirc
22:03:58 <ais523> I thought he said he was going to add slowpoke to it while EgoBot was down
22:04:03 <ais523> in order to get in first, or something
22:04:06 <ais523> not that it massively matters
22:04:30 <fizzie> ais523: I think I said "perhaps I should", or some such matters.
22:04:42 <fizzie> Since it's now officially in, I think I'll just hg pull.
22:06:26 <fizzie> It takes awfully long to draw those per-program plots; I was thinking of just exporting the data as json and doing most of the graphics client-side, at least for per-program (or maybe even per-match, though I guess egojsout is a better platform for that) visualizations.
22:06:44 <Deewiant> !bfjoust antislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21
22:07:24 <ais523> Deewiant: heh, that probably does work
22:07:36 <Deewiant> There's already a working one up
22:07:56 <elliott> does it beat it in all configurations?
22:08:13 <Deewiant> !bfjoust NOTAREALantislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21
22:08:26 <Deewiant> <<<<<<>><<<<<<<<<<><< <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<X<< 33
22:08:54 <elliott> ais523: get on writing a program to make an anti- automatically
22:09:11 <ais523> but if I did, I'd do it to anti the whole hill and get a perfect score
22:09:23 <elliott> ais523: null program draws with slowpoke
22:09:26 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, how often are you told that you need to vote in response to political whinging?
22:09:57 <ais523> strangely, I tried to run allegro vs slowpoke in egojsout
22:10:03 <ais523> and allegro just sat there doing nothing, not even setting decoys
22:10:08 <ais523> I assume it was some sort of egojsout glitch
22:10:19 <ais523> race condition in parsing, perhaps
22:10:37 <ais523> it was being very weird for me earlier
22:11:48 <Deewiant> Well anyway, the current one does <<<<<<>><>><<<<>><<<< <<<<<<<><<X<>X<<X<>X< 20
22:11:55 <elliott> So what's a good clear loop these days? :P
22:12:10 <ais523> you can steal the one from slowpoke if you like
22:12:19 <elliott> ais523: to use in antislowpoke? brilliant
22:12:21 <ais523> although I think it can actually be marginally improved to do better versus shudder
22:12:35 <elliott> what is it? I haven't read slowpoke
22:12:42 <Deewiant> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_slowpoke.bfjoust
22:12:42 <elliott> I do antis purely on traces
22:12:47 <elliott> Deewiant: that doesn't show me the clear loop
22:13:06 <ais523> ((+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]]>)*21 is the clear loop
22:13:12 -!- iconmaster has joined.
22:13:16 <ais523> hmm, it'd be interesting to see how that does on its own
22:13:53 <ais523> anyway, if you want to beat slowpoke, specialcase the tape values +/- 2, 30, 32, 98
22:13:55 <elliott> !bfjoust (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]]>)*22
22:13:58 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
22:14:06 <elliott> !bfjoust camber (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]])*22
22:14:06 <ais523> EgoBot: you mean *21 at the end
22:14:12 <elliott> ais523: nope, see start of loop
22:14:19 <ais523> not that it'll matter, that clear loop is incapable of falling off the tape anyway
22:14:26 <ais523> if you move the > to the start
22:14:30 <ais523> as you want to move at most 29 times
22:14:56 <ais523> oh dear, egojoust has got muddled again
22:15:00 <elliott> ais523: is slowpoke's loop any good if you remove the (+)*9?
22:15:03 <ais523> you two should both submit your program again
22:15:08 <ais523> elliott: that's an offset
22:15:18 <elliott> !bfjoust camber (>)*8(>(+)*9[-[-([-[-{[...+[...+]]>}]][+--[+--]]>(+)*9)%1000]])*22
22:15:20 <elliott> ais523: yes, but a slow offset
22:15:36 <ais523> well, you can change it to an offset clear or non-offset clear or whatever
22:15:40 <ais523> but who uses non-offset clears these days?
22:16:04 <ais523> what I will say is that against slowpoke, the optimal offset size is probably either 2 or 30, or maybe 32
22:16:37 <elliott> your clear is lame, it does badly on your own decoys
22:17:16 <ais523> well, that clear is incredibly inflexible
22:17:26 <ais523> it just beats defence programs trivially
22:17:31 <elliott> ISTR my interior_crocodile_alligator one being okay
22:17:40 <ais523> no existing defence program, or even existing defence /strategy/, will work well against it
22:17:50 <ais523> I've thought of a couple that might
22:17:56 <elliott> ais523: what about "assume opponent is using perfect RNG"?
22:18:00 <ais523> but I fear they'd be rather detail-dependent
22:18:02 <elliott> hmm, kinda hard to counter :P
22:18:06 <ais523> elliott: and how do you lock that?
22:18:24 <elliott> grr, in_egobot isn't loading
22:18:29 <ais523> you use your own perfect RNG with your same seed, that might work
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22:18:42 <elliott> what kind of perfect RNG has a seed?
22:19:01 <elliott> i suppose it makes sense. kinda.
22:19:01 <ais523> a reproducible perfect RNG, ofc
22:19:10 <ais523> being reproducible is generally good in an RNG
22:19:11 <elliott> if you had a functional definition (which would have to be infinitely-long)
22:19:14 <ais523> especially if you have an infinite seedspace
22:19:21 <ais523> I mean, if you allow arbitrary real numbers as seeds
22:19:31 <ais523> then everything is just fine
22:19:40 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:20:03 <ais523> anyway, it might be interesting if BF Joust had a nested loop limit
22:20:12 <ais523> in order to remove timer clear strategies
22:20:16 <ais523> that is, if they prove to hurt the gameplay
22:21:24 <elliott> I forgot ICA's clear is insane
22:21:35 <elliott> [-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]
22:21:39 <ais523> and very culnerable to triplocks
22:21:49 <ais523> very very very vulnerable to triplocks
22:22:01 <ais523> triplocking works against programs with three or more ] in a row
22:22:06 <ais523> and that program has, umm, 129?
22:22:56 <ais523> (admittedly, they have to be actually executed for the lock to work, and at the right moment)
22:23:04 <ais523> but they would be in that clear
22:23:11 <ais523> the triplock is IIRC how waterfall3 beats ICA
22:23:13 <Phantom_Hoover> http://tourdelisp.blogspot.com/2008/03/lisper-first-look-at-haskell.html
22:23:30 <ais523> also, ICA is an acronym I use all the time in my day job (idealized concurrent algol) so seeing it in this context is weird
22:23:42 <elliott> ais523: I hope you don't use CMT too.
22:23:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:24:23 <ais523> that one's used a lot on certain Internet forums
22:24:28 <ais523> but not by me, and it's not so much of a jar
22:24:32 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:25:28 <elliott> err, that sounds like a really irritating gthing to say
22:25:38 <fizzie> ais523: It's also Independent Component Analysis, a blind source separation thing our lab's been involved in; somewhat known in the "cocktail party problem" context.
22:25:39 <ais523> which in trading forums, translates to "you have something I want, look at what I have to see if there's something you want too"
22:25:53 <elliott> looks like egojsout doesn't handle {}
22:26:05 <ais523> I'm relatively sure it does
22:26:11 <elliott> time to troll fizzie a bit
22:26:16 <elliott> fizzie: voice input is useless
22:26:34 <fizzie> I don't think I'm up to the "no it's not" repetition this time, sowwy.
22:26:58 <elliott> fizzie: so can your system understand that "sowwy" is sorry
22:27:13 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: "Stuff."
22:27:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Kills kittens for fun and profit.
22:27:26 <elliott> I lie; he's a professional IRCer.
22:27:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: err, ais523 was the javateacher
22:27:35 <fizzie> I haven't really taught Java; that's more of an ais523 thing.
22:27:51 <elliott> ais523 just kills young CSers' minds for profit!
22:27:53 <ais523> this month's exercise is effectively "recreate Zork"
22:27:56 <elliott> (I kid, I kid, they probably deserve it.)
22:28:00 <ais523> although it's not me that set it
22:28:06 <ais523> elliott: I'm trying to improve the average skill of Java programmers
22:28:06 <fizzie> There's an ICA poster on the wall in a nearby corridor at work; it's really quite a cheat.
22:28:09 <ais523> which admittedly isn't difficult
22:28:12 <elliott> ais523: not exactly the worst exercise in the world
22:28:18 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, ISTR him marking Java programs a while ago...
22:28:28 <elliott> unless you mean the bot tournament
22:28:36 <elliott> which is the most interesting thing i know nothing about.
22:29:16 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: The AI tournament uses Java, right, but that's just my "side job"; it's not even our department's course.
22:29:55 <elliott> He summarises #esoteric every day.
22:30:01 <fizzie> Noise-robustness for speechy stuff, in the most general sense.
22:30:02 <elliott> Unfortunately they're under an NDA.
22:30:09 <elliott> fizzie: Yeah, yeah, your cover story.
22:30:16 <elliott> Nobody would ever REALLY work on something so pointless.
22:30:28 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, is it capable of comprehending the Scottish accent?
22:30:37 <elliott> NOT EVEN HUMANS ARE CAPABLE OF THAT
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_NOTAREALantislowpoke: 14.2
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_foo: 4.2
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 0.0
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_antislowpoke: 0.0
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for elliott_camber: 19.6
22:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for elliott_camber: 19.6
22:31:14 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_foo: 0.0
22:31:35 <Deewiant> !bfjoust NOTAREALantislowpoke (>)*8(>++[-]---)*21
22:31:38 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_NOTAREALantislowpoke: 14.8
22:31:45 <Sgeo> pikhq_, why is Suzumiya Haruhi trying to teach me math?
22:31:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:32:13 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Our system's been evaluated mostly for Finnish, really. I don't think anyone in our group is doing English dialects.
22:32:39 <fizzie> The acoustics lab guys have some sort of "recognize speech when the speaker's yelling" thing, I think that's curious enough.
22:35:31 <pikhq_> Sgeo: Cause that's susùmiyaharuhinoyûutu for you.
22:35:53 <Sgeo> I think... there might be an issue with this piece of math though
22:36:04 <Sgeo> There seems to be an undeserved assumption
22:37:34 <Sgeo> With the house with the Planar Graph Theorem thing, it should be impossible to determine whether x=vertices and z=sides (as assumed by Koizumi) or x=sides and z=vertices
22:38:27 <Deewiant> !bfjoust ALMOSTantislowpoke +(>)*8(>[++[-]]+)*21
22:38:45 <pikhq_> Oh, what does koisùmi know about math anyways? :P
22:39:21 <Sgeo> pikhq_, am I mistaken?
22:40:00 <pikhq_> Damned ambiguities in kana.
22:40:17 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ALMOSTantislowpoke: 19.2
22:40:35 <pikhq_> (sù and tù are pronounced *exactly the same*, and often get romanised the same.)
22:43:09 <Deewiant> elliott: <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<><<<<<<<<<<<<< 38, feel free to fix it.
22:43:19 <elliott> Deewiant: I'm already working on my own. :p
22:43:36 <Sgeo> pikhq_, answer me! (please)
22:43:57 <pikhq_> Sgeo: I don't know why susùmiyaharuhi is trying to teach you math at all!
22:44:24 <Sgeo> pikhq_, so I'm likely to just be correct in this matter?
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22:50:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, is it that an Euler characteristic doesn't change if you swap faces and vertices?
22:52:25 <Sgeo> The equation in the book certainly seemed to be saying that
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23:22:01 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | which is not the same thing as Windows Services for UNIX, based on the Interix subsystem.
23:24:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
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23:28:23 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | your parents should add a filter.
23:28:26 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | hm.
23:28:28 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | [22:51:47] virsys [n=virsys@or-67-232-64-36.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit IRC: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out).
23:28:30 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | │ │ (0x1000000) Alignment value to which kernel should be aligned │ │.
23:28:32 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | A bit silly to have to open a Chromium for web browsing when the while thing is Chromium.
23:28:35 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | ais523, it is 20" btw.
23:28:36 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | well exactly, people read "strcmp foo bar" and think foo==bar.
23:28:39 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Oh, if it's a shell/dispatcher thingy, that's not too bad..
23:28:41 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Ibwasnt running much.
23:28:43 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Phantom_Hoover, it was like in the lab recently. Some prankster had taken all the female-female-serial-cable-converters and hooked them up into something that was almost a complete circle.
23:28:47 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | I wish that web browsers would do justified text rendering, though....
23:28:50 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | If Station V3 actually had a website, it would probably suck me into a dimensional portal or something.
23:28:52 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | u.
23:28:53 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | any non-variable merely advances the ip.
23:28:55 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | dependent on your logic that might _be_ an axiom..
23:29:06 <elliott> Deewiant: Hey, advancing optbot repeatedly is Traditoin.
23:29:07 <optbot> elliott: oh, and y should tell the program which is the case?
23:29:09 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Set one awsistor to 1 and a different one to 0 for 1, and visa versa for 0, and send a pulse when something changes?.
23:29:11 <Sgeo> Rust uses reference counting for immutable stuff, and GC for mutable stuff
23:29:13 -!- optbot has set topic: logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D and http://208.78.103.223/esoteric/ | Is good..
23:29:18 <Sgeo> That makes a twisted kind of sense.
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23:36:22 <Sgeo> Oh, the FAQ may be out of date
23:36:33 <Sgeo> There's an immutable later, a state layer, and a gc layer
23:38:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:40:49 <Sgeo> notations are marked using a special form of bracketing, such that a reader unfamiliar
23:40:49 <Sgeo> with the extension can still parse the surrounding text by skipping over the bracketed
23:40:49 <Sgeo> extension text"
23:40:54 <Sgeo> This puts me in a good mood
23:48:09 <Sgeo> Hmm, prove is a keyword
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