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22:13:25 <Gregor> OK, /now/ it shouldn't be so screwy :P
22:13:29 <esowiki> Logs: http://gregorr.dyndns.org:8080/logs/_esoteric/?C=N;O=D
22:14:07 <zzo38> The reason I want to know is in case of TCP/IP drivers that will use those invalid addresses for their internal use, and not conflict with anything since they are invalid. Actually, we should group the invalid addresses into two groups, "driver level" and "application level" invalid groups so that the driver and application program can use their own codes for internal use.
22:16:35 <zzo38> For example, if a IPv4 only program tries to connect to a IPv6 only server, then the driver can allocate a temporary IPv4 address for that connection. There might be other uses too; and maybe the application programs can also have their own uses different to these.
22:17:16 <fizzie> That sounds more like something you should configure on a per-network basis (in which case they can use the private address ranges) and not hardcode anywhere.
22:17:33 <Ilari> The "Future Use" block (240/4)?
22:18:19 <fizzie> There's that, though of course technically speaking it wouldn't be impossible for those to be used to something that'd conflict with your home-grown solution.
22:24:13 <fizzie> Purely as a hack you might also be able to do that particular job by allocating different "unlikely" addresses in the 127.0.0.0/8 block and then treating them specially, but of course that's not very legal.
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22:58:45 <zzo38> Which is, why to designate some are driver level and some as application level. Then it will not conflict.
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23:37:36 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: What is she doing in #esoteric? Is this your doing too?
23:37:44 <shachaf> Haskell does not qualify as esoteric.
23:39:11 <oklopol> but esoteric qualifies as a haskell
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23:47:06 <oerjan> ALL HAIL PHANTOM_HOOVER, THE GREAT LAMBDABOT SUMMONER
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23:51:32 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Take that.
23:51:40 * shachaf shouldn't abuse lambdabot bugs, actually.
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00:01:40 <pikhq_> zzo38: Wayland has hardly any features at all.
00:01:41 <zzo38> Yes. Still, Ubuntu is what is used at Free Geek, when I am there I am using the Ubuntu system (although there are things I do not like about it).
00:02:48 <pikhq_> Just about all it really does is combine the framebuffers of each program into the graphics card's framebuffer.
00:03:23 <Phantom_Hoover> The reason for this is that APT Guy has write access to its repositories.
00:03:44 <zzo38> It has some things I don't like, also there should be a few things added. And then make the window manager as a separate module.
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00:03:57 <zzo38> But mostly, Wayland seems good idea.
00:04:07 <pikhq_> What features don't you like about it?
00:04:34 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, based on the fact that this is zzo, it's probably a weird mix of ludditism and hatred of bloat.
00:04:56 <pikhq_> And I doubt that making the window manager seperate is all that sane; it actually makes sense for there to be a bit more of a tight binding between compositing and window management these days.
00:05:34 <pikhq_> Not to mention that the Wayland design gives a window manager developer much more flexibility.
00:05:34 <zzo38> pikhq_: I mean, make it a separate module but that both modules are compiled together.
00:05:51 <pikhq_> zzo38: Oh. That's kinda-sorta what it actually has going on.
00:06:54 <pikhq_> zzo38: The intent is to have most of the functionality for compositing and such in a seperate library, so that someone making a specific compositor doesn't have to deal with much boilerplate.
00:07:59 <zzo38> I would have it without MIME types. Also without dragging, without non-rectangular windows, no dragging an icon from one window to another, and so on.
00:08:19 <zzo38> I would have selection buffers have PRIMARY,SECONDARY,CLIPBOARD like X has.
00:08:24 <pikhq_> MIME types is not part of Wayland at all.
00:08:58 <pikhq_> Dragging is implemented above.
00:08:58 <zzo38> pikhq_: I found a XML file that says some things about MIME types, though.
00:09:17 <pikhq_> Non-rectangular windows? What, you mean how there's an *alpha channel*?
00:09:57 <impomatic> I've got a Forth interpreter in under 600 bytes :-)
00:10:14 <zzo38> pikhq_: Well, I don't actually know. But I do not think there should be an alpha channel or shaped windows.
00:10:46 <zzo38> Also, the format for mouse pointer icons I would have a table with each mouse pointer icon 256 bytes, plus 1 byte to indicate the adjustment for hot spot of mouse pointer icons.
00:10:47 <pikhq_> It would take more effort to *not* support an alpha channel.
00:11:08 <pikhq_> You could implement a Wayland compositor with such a format.
00:11:33 <pikhq_> Remember, Wayland enforces *even less* policy than X.
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00:12:22 <zzo38> Even if, there is alpha channel, and it would take more effort to make not support alpha channel, I would do so that using alpha channel is not guaranteed to work, according to my specification.
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00:13:37 <pikhq_> zzo38: It is entirely up to the compositor how the alpha channel is handled.
00:13:56 <zzo38> I found also information about notification about the screen size. I would do it only the window manager is allowed to know the screen size, and all other programs only know the size of their window(s) and not the screen size.
00:14:02 <pikhq_> It could even be rendered as epilepsy-inducing flashing, if you so like.
00:15:58 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/g6fnk/microsoft_shuts_down_the_worlds_largest_spam/
00:16:06 <ais523> zzo38: what about games that want to size themselves to the screen?
00:16:08 <zzo38> I should deal with alpha channel in a bit different way: I write a specification that says there is no guarantee as to what will happen when the alpha channel is used, and then make the program to ignore the alpha channel.
00:16:26 <ais523> e.g. DNA Maze fullscreens itself if the screen isn't large enough to fit the window it wants to make plus a window border
00:16:29 <ais523> and windows itself otherwise
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00:16:37 <pikhq_> zzo38: It would be entirely valid for a compositor to do that.
00:16:52 <Phantom_Hoover> I can't help but think that it's Microsoft's damn fault in the first place for getting the world into a situation with huge amounts of hardware running a pathetically insecure OS.
00:16:55 <zzo38> ais523: They would specify what size they want. So if they want 640x480 and the screen is larger, the program gets a 640x480 window.
00:17:22 <pikhq_> zzo38: Part of the *intent* of Wayland is to make full-screen display not a set of hacks.
00:17:23 <zzo38> That is, the client area of the window is 640x480, but the border and stuff is added on to that size.
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00:18:41 <zzo38> pikhq_: Well, I think it should be up to the user to select full-screen mode (the window manager knows the screen size so that you can push the key combination for full screen and that resizes the window and tells the program that its window size is now [X,Y] where [X,Y] is the screen size.
00:19:46 <zzo38> The program does not need to know whether it is running full screen or not, it only needs to know the size of its window.
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00:22:05 <pikhq_> Most programs will want to render differently in full-screen mode than not.
00:22:21 <pikhq_> Not to mention that it's nice to have the program be able to do it.
00:23:17 <zzo38> I do not think so. Otherwise you will run two programs that both want full-screen and then you cannot tile the screen into multiple windows anymore.
00:24:41 <pikhq_> Seems to me that it'd be a simple matter for the compositor to just decide against allowing that.
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01:50:18 <zzo38> 256 bytes per mouse pointer icon may be too much, maybe 65 bytes for each icon is OK (one byte is for adjustment for hot spot)
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01:56:40 <cpressey> i don't know what you are talking about, because i haven't read the logs, because my web browser thinks they are BIN files and wants to download them instead of letting me read them, so i will give you advice based on complete ignorance: you should use a compiled sprite for the mouse pointer icon
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01:58:21 <cpressey> that way the hotspot can be recomputed on the fly as a function of mouse speed
01:58:47 <zzo38> cpressey: Can you prepend "view-source:" to make them ignore as binary file? Some browser can do that.
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02:00:18 <zzo38> How is a compiled sprite used and how the hotspot is recomputed like that?
02:00:45 <cpressey> zzo38: view-source: worked! you are my hero for tonight
02:02:21 <cpressey> a compiled sprite is just any code: the intention is that it draws a sprite at (x,y), but there is of course no good way to enforce that. likewise, the hotspot could be a function that... takes (x,y) and returns (xh,yh), i suppose
02:03:05 <cpressey> i have to boot this recovery disc to see if i can get a windows bootloader back on this machine
02:03:23 <cpressey> will probably be back in a bit... unless something goes horribly wrong
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02:09:58 <Gregor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zulEMWj3sVA <-- best Ohhhhh ching chong ling long ting tong response ever
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02:16:18 <cpressey> yay! installing ubuntu only confused windows, it did not destroy it. and the recovery disc knew what was wrong immediately and fixed it without hassle.
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02:23:09 <cpressey> speaking of text files that are binary files that are text files: it appears that it is not possible to open mycology.b98 in gedit. it just freaks out and asks you to reselect the encoding ad infinitum
02:29:39 <cpressey> (I implemented Befunge-93 in yoob and I'm looking to test it)
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02:37:59 <zzo38> The reason I think of 65 bytes is two planes of 32 bytes each, 1 bit per pixel of 16x16, one plane for transparent/opaque, one plane for black/white; and one byte for the hotspot, which is 4 bits for X hotspot and 4 bits for Y hotspot. And then perhaps have 16 standard mouse icons.
02:38:28 <cpressey> running sanity.bf in Befunge-93 results in an infinite loop when the PC gets to the 'v' in the word 'invalid'
02:40:00 <cpressey> zzo38: having an entire plane for transparency makes it easier to implement, but it wastes a tiny bit of space (assuming transparent white and transparent black display the same)
02:40:16 <cpressey> i should read the log to find out what you're talking about
02:43:15 <zzo38> cpressey: Yes that would waste space but makes it simpler. And it does not waste too much space if they are only 16x16 icons and only 16 such icons are loaded at one time.
02:48:53 <cpressey> good ol' bef seems to fail mycology's test for Go West, which seems unlikely to be true
02:49:57 <cpressey> it probably loads the long lines wrong or something
03:00:36 <Gregor> http://sprunge.us/ICPT Facebook fun
03:03:34 <cpressey> oh, i think i see. if there are >80 characters on a line, the remainder get wrapped onto the next line. fun
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03:12:58 <cpressey> if i were king, all compiler error messages would contain the word 'somewhat'
03:13:34 <cpressey> foo.c:391: somewhat missing semicolon
03:25:12 <Gregor> Really, all error messages can be replaced with "I have no idea what the fuck is going on, but something is wrong here"
03:25:25 <Gregor> foo.c:391: I have no idea what the fuck is going on, but something is wrong here
03:25:31 <Gregor> First referenced in foo.h:32: I have no idea what the fuck is going on, but something is wrong here
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04:06:00 <cpressey> zzo38: how are you planning to implement it? is this for Wayland, or X-windows, or whatever that is that was being discussed?
04:06:32 <Sgeo> pikhq, I playe a Pokemon battle against my friend
04:07:50 <cpressey> Deewiant: not sure if you care, but: bef's # has different behavior depending if it's on the north or west vs the south or east edge. (wrapping is implementing differently for + and - directions)
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04:21:37 <cpressey> @0.v>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>#
04:22:42 <cpressey> bef now prints out '0 1 ', its previous incarnation (or running with the flag that enables backwards-compatible behavior) will just print '0 '
04:25:43 <zzo38> cpressey: I do not know quite yet how I plan to implemented it, but probably a variant of Wayland.
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06:09:20 <cpressey> alright then... new version of bef released, v2.22: http://catseye.tc/projects/bef/
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07:22:06 <pikhq_> Dang, it's weird out tonight.
07:22:58 <pikhq_> Perigee at full moon is shockingly bright.
07:26:23 <augur> pikhq_: isnt it like 20% brighter?
07:26:26 <augur> something like that
07:26:42 <pikhq_> The brightness is quite noticable.
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07:40:32 <zzo38> I tried playing various raw picture files as raw audio files.
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08:03:10 <pikhq> John Tyler, 10th president of the US, has 2 living *grandchildren*.
08:03:24 <pikhq> He was born in 1790.
08:11:08 <pikhq> Hrm. How odd would a case such as this be: "The Crown v. Her Majesty"? Is it even technically possible?
08:11:45 <pikhq> Well, *practically* it isn't, as the Queen could simply opt to exercise her ordinarily delegated authority as prosecutor in criminal cases.
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08:44:32 <zzo38> Can you figure out these number sequences?
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08:50:49 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/numseq.txt
09:04:25 <cheater99> the next number in each of those sequences is 0, right?
09:05:52 <cheater99> pikhq_: let's say there's a law set out by one of the previous bearers of the crown that is still in effect that the current queen breaks
09:06:19 * oerjan was more thinking about the queen getting multiple personalities, but...
09:06:25 <cheater99> pikhq_: and this law then means that people in the institution ("the crown") have to sue the person ("her majesty")?
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09:19:28 <zzo38> cheater99: No they arenot zero
09:19:49 <Ilari> Hmm.. Lagerholm estimate for APNIC jumped from 13th to 2nd July (WTF, it is that optimistic???). Huston estimate jumped from May 5th to April 30th.
09:23:17 <Ilari> APNIC relative allocations for last 30 days: 87.9%. ~7.3x ROW.
09:30:32 <Ilari> Time when APNIC relative allocations were <1x RoW was only few months ago. :-/
09:34:02 <Ilari> All RIR allocation rates except APNIC are trending down. APNIC is rapidly shooting up, likely not decreasing until APNIC depletes.
09:36:34 <Ilari> It seems that the Huston estimate on RIPE NCC is overly pessimistic vs. recent events.
09:36:48 <cheater99> zzo38: there's no mathematical proof for that!
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09:38:38 <Ilari> Of course, pretty much nothing can be predicted about what APNIC exhaustion will do to RIPE allocation rates.
09:39:29 <Ilari> And also to ARIN rates.
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09:47:54 <Ilari> RIPE last 30 days allocations: 3 541 792 (0.211). RIPE has at least 2.87 blocks free (3.87 minus setaside).
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10:19:55 <zzo38> cheater99: You are correct there are not mathematical proof.
10:21:01 <zzo38> How many patterns can this program make? http://sprunge.us/gDCA
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10:40:33 <cheater99> zzo38: probably quite many, given it's nondeterministic.
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11:03:13 <zzo38> The initial state is 36 bits, but some states can be reached from other states, so you have to take that into consideration.
11:11:31 <Ilari> Looks like the evolution is time-reversible.
11:11:44 <Ilari> (Each state having unique precessor).
11:13:40 <zzo38> Eventually the screen goes black and it repeats.
11:18:30 <Ilari> (0,0,0,0) is part of cycle of length 3 52 255.
11:18:39 <Ilari> (0, 0, 0, 2) generates some huge cycle.
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11:20:54 <Ilari> What's POINT(X, Y)?
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11:22:47 <fizzie> The color value of pixel (X,Y) in some BASICs at least.
11:23:24 <Ilari> Ah, it apparently cycles the colors then.
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13:03:48 <Vorpal> Ilari, what is ROW in the statement about APNIC above?
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13:15:20 <Vorpal> new textbook arrived yesterday, for the next course. Title sounds fun: "Real-Time Systems and Programming Languages" The subtitle less so: "Ada, Real-Time Java and C/Real-Time POSIX"
13:15:24 <Vorpal> who the fuck invented "real-time java"!?
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13:34:35 * oerjan wishes a certain person's add applied to his grudges and not just to his projects
13:35:14 <cheater00> is that the same thing now called ADHD?
13:35:40 <oerjan> it was in any case a joke designation, not a diagnosis
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13:35:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, I just parsed it as the word rather than the acronym.
13:36:12 <Vorpal> is it just me or does ADA code look similar to Pascal code at a first glance?
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13:36:49 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ah that would explain it
13:36:51 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh also:
13:36:56 <Vorpal> <Vorpal> new textbook arrived yesterday, for the next course. Title sounds fun: "Real-Time Systems and Programming Languages" The subtitle less so: "Ada, Real-Time Java and C/Real-Time POSIX"
13:36:56 <Vorpal> <Vorpal> who the fuck invented "real-time java"!?
13:37:13 <cheater00> i've had the same kind of dejavu when i read some gopher code lately
13:37:58 <Vorpal> cheater00, gopher the protocol?
13:38:24 <oerjan> i think the good parts of gopher basically merged back in haskell and gopher disappeared
13:38:47 <cheater00> i think haskell is like a successor of gopher
13:38:53 <cheater00> and ghs is the gopher something something
13:39:09 <cheater00> hugs is the something something gopher something
13:39:37 <oerjan> yes, hugs changed from gopher to haskell at some point, but i think gopher was a haskell variant to start with
13:40:15 <cheater00> oh, i was told it was a predecessor
13:40:19 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, also this book seems to use bold for syntax highlight keywords in ADA and java code examples. But no syntax highlighting at all for C examples
13:40:24 <cheater00> basically sort of parallel to miranda
13:40:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Hugs is Haskell without the shouting at you when you get types wrong?
13:41:16 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: um hugs still requires correct types
13:41:54 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gofer_(programming_language)
13:42:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, but I was under the impression that it didn't spit out incomprehensible type jargon when you got it wrong.
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13:43:14 <oerjan> maybe not quite as much.
13:45:37 <cheater00> what was that visual functional programming language for making music?
13:47:28 <oerjan> cheater00: i find that wikipedia article about gofer self-inconsistent about the history. but i _think_ gofer started as a haskell variant, did some things closer to miranda, invented several things that were later adopted by haskell, and was basically abandoned when hugs got advanced enough to support full haskell.
13:47:38 <Vorpal> this rather cheap digital watch keeps the time well... I haven't set it for two or three years (I rarely use it, I prefer my phone for checking the time), and it is less than 4 seconds off.
13:47:57 <Vorpal> only off by an hour, so it is on DST likely
13:48:16 <cheater00> Vorpal: is it a radio clock maybe?
13:48:39 <Ilari> Vorpal: Rest of the World.
13:48:57 <oerjan> i have a vague recall that the Monad type class was first implemented in gofer
13:49:07 <Vorpal> cheater00, basic three function ugly digital watch (time, alarm, stop watch)
13:49:27 <Vorpal> oh and a button for backlight
13:49:46 <cheater00> Vorpal: my watch doesn't have radio in it, but it's still a radio clock
13:49:57 <cheater00> which just means it can be synced through radio, that's all
13:50:03 <oerjan> and what that article doesn't say is that haskell _did_ get monad comprehensions, then dropped them again, and is currently about to readd them as an option.
13:50:08 <cheater00> mine doesn't even seem to have alarm.. or deos it
13:50:50 <cheater00> oerjan: how do monad comprehensions work at all?
13:52:09 <oerjan> cheater00: basically it works as syntactical sugar something like [x] = return x, [f x | x <- y] = y >>= f
13:52:42 <oerjan> [f x | x <- y] = y >>= \x -> return (f x)
13:53:12 <oerjan> cheater00: oh it works perfectly well and gives the result for lists
13:57:43 <Vorpal> <cheater00> Vorpal: my watch doesn't have radio in it, but it's still a radio clock <-- you are confusing two different "meanings" of radio here
13:58:11 <Vorpal> cheater00, I can assure you that this clock has no radio receiver
14:05:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, what are the two meanings you're nattering about?
14:05:58 <Phantom_Hoover> If it's synced to an atomic clock, it definitely does have a radio receiver.
14:09:55 <oerjan> once upon a time, before such syncing was widespread, "radio clock" had a rather different meaning. i don't know what you kids call it these days.
14:10:25 <Phantom_Hoover> If it's a clock with a radio attached, then Vorpal is an even bigger idiot than I though.
14:11:02 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, "my watch doesn't have radio in it" sound like he means "doesn't have a radio for listening to common broadcast"
14:11:04 <oerjan> yeah only idiots use clocks with radios attached
14:11:22 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, because if it is a radio clock then it certainly has a radio of some sort in it.
14:19:09 <Vorpal> oerjan, may I come onto your lawn? To me radio clock means the older meaning still
14:19:25 <Vorpal> oerjan, and "radio synced clock" or such means the modern meaning
14:19:56 <cheater00> funnily enough this clock is made in a small village that has a technical university and like 10 houses
14:19:57 <oerjan> i'm sorry, but you're not senile enough
14:20:31 <cheater00> and i worked in the exact same street it was made on, a year ago.
14:20:37 <cheater00> what are the odds of that happening?
14:20:45 <Vorpal> oerjan, aww, I don't remember what I had for lunch today even
14:21:01 <Vorpal> (disclaimer: this is because I haven't eaten yet)
14:21:50 <Vorpal> cheater00, did you buy it in that village?
14:22:02 <cheater00> no, i bought it in here because i liked the look of it
14:22:10 <cheater00> i didn't even know that company existed there
14:22:46 <cheater00> the village was so small i had to live in an adjacent city and commute (two s-bahn stations) to work there
14:23:30 <oklopol> cheater00: do you have over a thousand clocks?
14:23:53 <cheater00> it's like my first ever OWN bought alarm clock
14:24:05 <cheater00> perhaps except for a mechanic one i'd had ages ago
14:24:17 <Vorpal> cheater00, what about ones you got as presents?
14:24:32 <cheater00> i had like 4 in the course of my life.
14:24:43 <Vorpal> oklopol, I suggest FSM instead
14:24:52 <Vorpal> it is much more plausible
14:25:09 <oerjan> dammit, oklopol, i was going to say that
14:25:19 <oklopol> oerjan: erm, that's not what he meant?
14:26:19 <oklopol> is that the flying spaghetti monster?
14:26:37 <asiekierka> I suggest FSM - the universe is a finite state machine, only the number of states is far too much for us to comprehend and notice
14:26:42 <oklopol> that actually already directly is that
14:27:08 <oerjan> asiekierka: i've had that idea before
14:27:57 <oklopol> who cares what the universe is, i just wanna know what the deal is with this clock thing
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14:37:51 <Vorpal> oklopol, you will never know*! MWHAHAHAHAHA
14:37:55 <Vorpal> * Unless you check logs.
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15:53:56 <Phantom_Hoover> <oerjan> asiekierka: i've had that idea before ← isn't that just finite space with some additional caveats?
15:54:17 <asiekierka> i'd call it practically infinite but theoretically finite space machine
15:58:59 <olsner> maybe it's just an infinite state machine?
15:59:20 <Phantom_Hoover> http://gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs/trunk/gcc/reload.c?view=markup
16:13:10 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: I'm not getting why that file is so fascinating :P
16:19:03 <Gregor> "Reload is the GCC equivalent of Satan." lol
16:21:12 <Gregor> Also, http://sprunge.us/ICPT :P
16:33:00 <oklopol> [18:18:26] <lycee> hello is there any practical consequence of the fact that irrational numbers exist?
16:33:00 <oklopol> [18:18:27] <lycee> or let me rephrase: hello is there any practical consequence of the "fact" that irrational numbers "exist"?
16:33:07 <oklopol> why did i ever leave #math
16:42:49 <oklopol> he's this annoying jackass
16:43:02 <oklopol> everyone hates him because he's a dick to everyone
16:43:26 <oklopol> cheater00: could you please answer my question?
16:43:58 <cheater00> oklopol: i didn't see your question because you didn't highlight me btw
16:44:14 <cheater00> oklopol: well, when i stopped going to #math he would have those fits all the time
16:44:33 <cheater00> sort of like but not as bad as ... another person.
16:45:04 <oklopol> i have learned a lot of life skills from TRWBW
16:45:30 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
16:46:19 <oklopol> my opinions on math are to a large extent the same as his, strictly speaking i dunno if he's really influenced them
16:46:26 <oklopol> also he really makes you think about what you say
16:46:40 <oklopol> because otherwise he'll ignore you forever
16:46:46 <cheater00> the only way in which that was true for me was "i wish i hadn't come to #math to talk about this"
16:46:47 <oklopol> and he's a really nice guy so who'd want that
16:47:08 <cheater00> are we talking about the same TRWBW?
16:47:21 <oklopol> the way i took his punishment was "indeed, i should've been less of a retard"
16:47:23 <cheater00> ok i guess there aren't two of him
16:47:49 <cheater00> two of him existing would probably just collapse the universe forever
16:48:23 <cheater00> oklopol: well i understand what you mean with the "life skills" bit
16:49:15 <cheater00> everyone's got experience with a pompous asshole (sorry about the wording), except you only need a few in your life to learn how to be nice to people, and i've had my fair share before i'd become.. exposed to him
16:49:42 <cheater00> so i guess i could've liked him the way you do, had i made contact with him 10 years earlier!
16:50:17 <oklopol> right, i like him because he told me i was a fucking retard once when i totally was and didn't realize it
16:50:27 <cheater00> funny how our views diverge very much yet seem to be part of one bigger mechanism if you think about it
16:50:29 <oklopol> i'm sure everyone would do the same
16:50:55 <cheater00> i dunno, the only thing i've experienced from his side was aggresive negativity
16:51:39 <oklopol> well he is pretty aggressive and negative, i don't actually like talking to him :D
16:51:57 <cheater00> hence i stopped hanging out in #math
16:52:21 <cheater00> and like, when i first started going there the place was overrun by like first-year CS freshmen
16:52:22 <oklopol> i just hang out in math because it's fun to watch people being clueless
16:52:50 <cheater00> so you'd go there and ask how to prove something about real numbers and they'd say write a program that loops over numbers. or something dumb like that.
16:53:13 <oklopol> i can rarely help with any interesting questions, just the "if x = 2, does that also mean all the 2's of the world are suddenly x?"
16:53:18 <cheater00> or you'd ask how to find the limit to a series and they'd give you a truncated decimal expansion.
16:53:55 <cheater00> but tbh i enjoyed efnet #math very much more than the place here
16:54:01 <oklopol> and i don't mean i help with those either, i mostly watch others try and fail
16:54:21 <cheater00> learned loads about how to approach maths from people like zeno, Polytope, landen, etc
16:55:05 <oklopol> i have that impression, dunno where it comes from
16:55:07 <cheater00> landen is like this old guy on tenure in mit
16:55:20 <cheater00> he's so old he remembers when time begun
16:55:32 <cheater00> but i don't think he's as old as glk lol
16:55:47 <cheater00> i'm not sure if the nick is right, i think so
16:56:23 <cheater00> http://grahamkendall.net/Main_Files/All%20URL.txt
16:56:54 <cheater00> and like every time someone would mention anything about orbits or calculators he'd immediately spring up and spam his website url
16:57:14 <cheater00> and then engage into an in-depth conversation about the wonderful features of the TI-83
16:59:13 <oklopol> oh? i didn't notice he had a body
16:59:35 <oklopol> it looks kinda interesting
17:01:28 <cheater00> maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, oklopol is SUCH a troll ;;;-//////////////////////////
17:02:30 <Gregor> oklopol: Because you only have one eye.
17:03:47 <cheater00> oklopol: btw, do you know anything about such a maths construct? it was first described by sierpinski, and i'm not sure if there's even an english word for it
17:05:34 <cheater00> you start with a finite set of complex numbers K_1 = {z_1, ..., z_n} and another finite set of natural numbers {k_1, ..., k_m}. If x \in K_i then x^k_m in K_{i+1}
17:05:46 <cheater00> let me bring up the wikipedia article
17:06:18 <cheater00> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierwiastnik
17:06:24 <cheater00> the polish word for this is Pierwiastnik
17:06:35 <cheater00> which comes from the word Pierwiastek which means square root or surd.
17:06:54 <cheater00> it was supposedly important for Abel and Wenzel
17:07:53 <oklopol> i can't really read polish all that well, what do you do with k_j other than k_m?
17:08:48 <cheater00> basically, z is a "pierwiastnik" of the numbers {z_i}_i if you can take the numbers z_i, and you can reach z using the four basic operations and also exponents (x^k_i for some i) and surds,
17:09:10 <cheater00> so for example THIS: http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/4/5/7451b3d4b1ad635a8e5ede3de8681773.png
17:09:26 <cheater00> is *a* "pierwiastnik" of the numbers x, y, \pi
17:10:00 <oklopol> what do you need the k_i for then, if they are nats, you can just multiply x with itself
17:10:59 <cheater00> sorry i explained it the wrong way around
17:12:05 <cheater00> you start out with say, K_0 = Q, and K_i = K_{i-1} (z_i) (this is the field extension by z_i)
17:12:34 <oklopol> it is? didn't you say it has the roots of z_i?
17:12:47 <cheater00> now i'm translating directly from the wikipedia page
17:13:01 <cheater00> now this is important because you have i-1 as the index on the right
17:13:14 <cheater00> so you can see that you're taking nth roots
17:14:29 <cheater00> so, we have (z_i)^{k_i} \in K_{i-1} for i=1..n and z \in K_n
17:14:55 <cheater00> that's what the wikipedia page says
17:15:02 <oklopol> K_0 = Q contains (z_1)^{k_1} for instance?
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17:15:39 <cheater00> and then, once all this is set up so it works( we have to choose the z_i and k_i correctly), then we can say that z is the "pierwiastnik" of the numbers {z_i} of the grade k = max(k_i)
17:15:51 <cheater00> oklopol: yes, because you choose z_i this way
17:16:00 <cheater00> like not ALL z's can be constructed like this
17:16:19 <oklopol> so the idea is you're taking roots of things that already exist in the earliers
17:16:31 <oklopol> and adding them to get a field extension
17:17:11 <oklopol> then i think i have heard of this
17:18:00 <oklopol> oh i don't know :P but the constructable numbers, you get roughly the numbers you can construct by using only k_j = 2, this way, starting from Q^2
17:18:08 <cheater00> i think the right word for this could be "radical"
17:18:19 <oklopol> wait, how's Q^2 even a field
17:18:28 <cheater00> since "pierwiastnik" is an alteration of the word "pierwiastek" which means radix.
17:18:46 <oklopol> you can construct Q's pierwiastnik extensions with k_i = 2 this way, in some sense.
17:19:22 <cheater00> because for example you can in this "radical" thing start out with any set of numbers, not only Q
17:19:34 <cheater00> for example at the top you have an example where you start with x, y, \pi
17:19:52 <oklopol> i said, the constructable numbers are gotten from Q by adding pierwiastnik extensions using k_i = 2 for all i
17:20:09 <oklopol> but i don't think you can construct all such numbers, and i don't know which ones you can
17:20:28 <oklopol> and this could be wrong, i just vaguely recall an example from our algebra lecture notes
17:20:42 <cheater00> now it is said that all solutions of polynomials up to the 4th degree can be expressed as a pierwiastnik over the field over which the polynomial is given
17:20:55 <cheater00> starting the 5th degree sometimes you can sometimes you can't
17:21:11 <oklopol> oh that 4th degree thing is true for all fields?
17:21:25 <oklopol> i should learn some galois theory
17:21:58 <cheater00> Twierdzenie Abela-Ruffiniego – głosi, że pierwiastki równania algebraicznego stopnia wyższego niż 4 nie dają się wyrazić w ogólnej postaci za pomocą czterech działań algebraicznych i pierwiastkowania poprzez współczynniki równania w skończonej liczbie kroków (czyli poprzez tak zwane pierwiastniki).
17:22:20 <cheater00> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel%E2%80%93Ruffini_theorem
17:22:29 <oklopol> abel and ruffini were the two horribly complicated solutions to the polynomial prob?
17:22:43 <oklopol> before galois actually gave a sensible answer
17:22:50 <cheater00> look at the english version of this page
17:22:57 <cheater00> In algebra, the Abel–Ruffini theorem (also known as Abel's impossibility theorem) states that there is no general algebraic solution—that is, solution in radicals— to polynomial equations of degree five or higher.[1]
17:23:15 <cheater00> the way they use it here, they use "radical" in the same way they use "pierwiastnik" in the polish version
17:23:24 <cheater00> of course "radical" in wikipedia just transfers you to nth root
17:23:41 <cheater00> that goes in line with what i said earlier
17:23:42 <cheater00> <cheater00> i think the right word for this could be "radical"
17:25:00 <cheater00> ok now we need to hijack the wikipedo page for "radical"
17:26:04 <oklopol> oh that's what radicals are
17:26:11 <oklopol> i'll probably forget the term soon again
17:28:48 <oklopol> in solving that problem, for some reason it helps to take fields F and their extensions G, and consider the group of isomorphisms of G that keep F invariant. then you can somehow reduce everything to group theory questions.
17:28:54 <oklopol> that's pretty much all i remember
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17:55:32 <Gregor> Is that some crazy Happo-niece cat sound?
18:05:04 <pikhq_> Nah, just a Japanese cat.
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19:29:24 <pikhq_> Þou art, indeed, a kitty!
19:30:02 <Gregor> I admit it was actually MILDLY funny.
19:30:37 <oklopol> after reading the hovertext, it felt like he was trying to make a point tho, which made it less funny
19:32:35 <oerjan> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious
19:32:44 <oklopol> i was going to write something else and screwed up but i guess it worked out fine anyway
19:32:58 * oerjan cackles evilly, then is hit by falling anvil
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19:39:06 <oklopol> impomatic: i don't want to be a blog.
19:40:16 <oerjan> oklopol: but but it's such a nice word containing only an o vowel
19:40:28 <oerjan> oklowiki would just be _wrong_
19:40:57 <Gregor> "frog" is also a nice word containing only an 'o' vowel.
19:41:05 <Gregor> And I have no problem believing that oklopol is a frog.
19:41:09 <oerjan> indeed. start jumping, oklofrog!
19:41:27 <oklopol> Gregor: i have never even been to that country
19:41:44 <Gregor> Parles vous ribbit ribbit?
19:41:52 <pikhq_> "Yay", obnoxiously long encodes.
19:42:04 <pikhq_> Encoding an entire season of Trek is about two days of encoding. Bleck.
19:42:14 <oklopol> jeau parles non la lingua ribulosa
19:43:24 <Gregor> oklopol: What's this about Jews talking like frogs? RACIST
19:43:37 <impomatic> Is clog something provided by freenode? If so, how do I get clog to log a channel?
19:43:48 <Gregor> impomatic: Naw, somebody at tunes.org runs it
19:43:58 <Gregor> impomatic: Making a better logging bot is easy though :P
19:45:12 <impomatic> The bot that logs #corewars seems to have been down for a while.
19:45:41 <oklopol> oerjan was mean to him so he left forever
19:46:09 <zzo38> My own IRC server does logs on the server. If you want, I can give you codes to make your own logs on your server.
19:46:22 <oerjan> i guess he transferred me from the white people box to the black people box
19:47:03 <oklopol> well you are quite the nigga
19:47:06 * oerjan is now being hypocritical again, and swats himself -----###
19:48:00 <zzo38> In what section number does TeX prevent disabling all escape and active characters?
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19:52:20 <impomatic> zzo38: thanks. I wait to see if the current logger is fixed first.
19:52:53 <impomatic> I have a Forth interpreter in about 600 bytes. I was just wondering if I beat Elliott to it :-)
19:54:27 <zzo38> impomatic: I would like to see what you have. I think elliott was trying to write it in 510 bytes, 600 bytes is too long to fit in the MBR code.
19:55:42 <impomatic> zzo38: I'll let you have a copy when it's debugged / optimized. It's minimal. I only implemented the words necessary to get the outer interpreter working.
20:16:06 <cheater-> oklopol: oerjan wasn't mean to elliott.
20:17:01 <oklopol> well strictly speaking, i did say that
20:17:26 <cheater-> no, *strictly* speaking, you typed that :D
20:17:46 <oerjan> you mean "*strictly* typing"
20:18:38 <oerjan> ALL TYPOS ARE BANNABLE OFFENSES
20:18:47 <cheater-> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo
20:18:58 <oerjan> fortunately it's not strictly _enforced_
20:19:13 <cheater-> anyone ever speak with that guy?
20:19:31 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
20:19:32 <cheater-> he's quite infamous for being a big anorak and being completely unable to type
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20:30:00 <zzo38> Next time make your logo with METAFONT.
20:30:30 <zzo38> You can combine METAFONT with ImageMagick if you want colors and special effect as well.
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20:44:07 * oerjan shuffles to the next corner
20:46:37 <oerjan> hm an oppressive capitalist
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20:47:00 * oerjan uses a hammer and sickle to make a new corner
20:48:22 * oerjan just manages to run out before the falling roof crushes Phantom_Hoover
20:50:08 <iconmaster> But a floor can be a ceiling/roof if you are under it.
20:50:21 * oerjan declares a socialist republic and nationalizes the corners
20:50:58 <oerjan> TYPICAL CAPITALIST PROPAGANDA
20:51:20 * oerjan declares free corners (without walls) for everyone
20:52:57 * oerjan outlaws property, thereby clearly making theft impossible
20:54:04 <oerjan> comrade Phantom_Hoover, we now have perfect communism!
20:54:19 <oerjan> no logic was the obvious last step
20:54:42 * Phantom_Hoover shoots all the corners and airbrushes them out of the photos.
20:55:46 <iconmaster> What you really should be worried about is that floor.
20:57:30 <iconmaster> But it is also a CEILING. It is two-faced! Wait, we outlawed logic...
20:58:44 * iconmaster should keep his nose out of this whole 'life' thing.
20:59:09 <iconmaster> How many IT's do you want to be mined?
20:59:59 * iconmaster offers Phantom_Hoover his salt shaker.
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21:00:13 <oerjan> iconmaster: do not fear. replace logic by glorious dialectic materialism!
21:00:45 <iconmaster> I KNOW I have some more salt *somewhere*...
21:00:46 <oerjan> the floor is clearly material, and has two faces, thus dialectic
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21:01:51 <oerjan> giving a glorious synthetic plastic
21:01:54 * iconmaster is wondering how communism and materialism can go together. Oh wait, no logic.
21:03:32 <Phantom_Hoover> iconmaster, in seriousness, socialism is materialist in the non-spiritualist sense.
21:03:38 -!- cheater- has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:04:21 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: we have now got salt from filthy americans http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=SALT
21:05:17 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: your sentences are employing CAPITALISM, and therefore fungot is ignoring you
21:05:30 <oerjan> well that and not being here, mind you
21:07:58 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: rubbish, if you look in the backlog you will see that fungot was disappeared before the glorious revolution started
21:08:50 * oerjan gives iconmaster some candy floss from cuban sugar
21:10:03 <oerjan> cheater99: just a little to hide this tumor on my backhead
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21:10:58 <Phantom_Hoover> CRAPPY CAPITALIST WIFI IS ATTEMPTING TO SABOTAGE GLORIOUS SOCIALIST REVOLUTION
21:12:16 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Republic of Esoterica | Try out yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
21:13:51 -!- oerjan has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica | Try out yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
21:14:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica | DECADENT CAPITALIST NEOPAGANS NEED NOT APPLY | Try out yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
21:14:21 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche
21:14:56 <cheater99> i am all too happy because this monad stuff is finally making sense
21:16:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica | DECADENT CAPITALIST NEOPAGANS NEED NOT APPLY | Try out GLORIOUS SOVIET yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | SOCIALIST HISTORY logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
21:16:23 * cheater99 knows it's because he's using xchat.
21:16:31 <oerjan> it worked perfectly, you are just using decadent capitalist nick alignment
21:16:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica | DECADENT CAPITALIST NEOPAGANS NEED NOT APPLY | Try out GLORIOUS SOVIET yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | SOCIALIST HISTORY: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
21:18:35 -!- cheater99 has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica | DECADENT CAPITALIST NEOPAGANS NEED NOT APPLY | Try out GLORIOUS SOVIET yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | SOCIALIST HISTORY: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | NEW SOCIALIST TRADITIONS APPROVED BY THE PARTY: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page.
21:18:53 <cheater99> there was a lot of "new traditions" in the 80s in the eastern block
21:19:07 <cheater99> which is hilarious because .. traditions are by definition something old.
21:19:28 <oerjan> was it hilarious even in the original russian?
21:19:59 <cheater99> nova lyudova traditya or something
21:20:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
21:20:30 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:22:54 -!- cheater99 has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica | DECADENT CAPITALIST NEOPAGANS NEED NOT APPLY | Try out GLORIOUS SOVIET yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | SOCIALIST HISTORY: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | NEW SOCIALIST TRADITIONS APPROVED BY THE PARTY: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page | OPTBOT DENOUNCED AS CAPIT.
21:23:08 -!- cheater99 has set topic: The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica | DECADENT CAPITALIST NEOPAGANS NEED NOT APPLY | Try out GLORIOUS SOVIET yoob @ http://catseye.tc/lab/yoob/applet.html | SOCIALIST HISTORY: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | NEW SOCIALIST TRADITIONS APPROVED BY THE PARTY: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page.
21:23:20 <cheater99> optbot denounced as capitalist wolf.
21:23:34 <pikhq_> エソテリッカ之英人民民主主義共和平和進歩国！
21:24:10 <oerjan> cheater99: i wish to point out that optbot is _not_ banned.
21:24:32 <oerjan> in case anyone was confused
21:24:40 <cheater99> oh ok sorry didn't mean to confuse anyone
21:24:50 -!- iconmaster has quit (Quit: THE GLORIOUS SOCIALIAST RPOS V2.1 IS HERE!).
21:25:07 <Phantom_Hoover> LISTEN NOT TO THE LIES OF THE CAPITALIST SPY ICONMASTER
21:25:32 <oerjan> he doesn't even spall socialist correctly!
21:25:34 <pikhq_> (esoteri'ka no ei sìnnminnminnsiȳûsiȳûkì kiȳôwa hêwa sinnhǫ koku!)
21:26:14 <Phantom_Hoover> NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC OF COMRADE OERJAN'S CAPITALIST SYNCHRONICITY
21:26:30 <cheater99> OERJAN DENOUNCED AS CAPITALIST WOLF
21:26:39 <pikhq_> ("The Glorious People's Socialist Democratic Egalitarian Progressive Republic of Esoterica")
21:26:46 <cheater99> <Phantom_Hoover> COMRADE PIKHQ WHAT EVILS HAVE BEFALLEN YOU < lol, i read that as "what elvis has befallen you" >_<
21:26:52 <oerjan> synchronicity is dialectic, not capitalist
21:27:20 <cheater99> oerjan: are your neurodynes clear?
21:27:21 <oerjan> also why am _i_ the capitalist, you are the ones who insist on using capitals
21:27:29 <cheater99> oerjan: i think you should speak to AHS-7.
21:27:56 <oerjan> cheater99: i do not recognize the decadent capitalist references you mention
21:28:04 <cheater99> i guess oerjan is the.. whatdoyoucallit
21:28:20 <cheater99> what's the opposite of capital letter?
21:28:35 <olsner> CEASE THIS DECADENT USAGE OF NEW INVENTED LOWER CASE CHARACTERS
21:28:38 <cheater99> there was a special word for that that's never used
21:28:42 <olsner> THEY ARE NOT OF THE TRADITION
21:31:43 <pikhq_> LOWER-CASE CHARACTERS ARE A REMNANT OF FEUDALIST EUROPE
21:32:03 <pikhq_> CAPITALS ARE THE CREATION OF A GRAND REPUBLIC
21:32:19 <pikhq_> CAPITALS: FOR SOCIALISM!
21:32:49 <pikhq_> THANK YOU, COMRADE PHANTOM_HOOVER.
21:33:49 <oerjan> (NOTE ABSENCE OF CAPITALIST "U")
21:34:08 <pikhq_> WELCOME, COMRADE ØRJAN, TO THE GLORIOVS PEOPLE'S SOCIALIST DEMOCRATIC EGALITARIAN PROGRESSIVE REPVBLIC OF ESOTERICA.
21:36:01 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:37:09 <pikhq_> COMRADE, THOSE GLYPHS ORIGINATE FROM A CZAR, TRULY THE LEAST SOCIALIST SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT.
21:37:50 <pikhq_> AND NOT FROM THE ROMAN REPVBLIC, A CLEAR PREDECESSOR TO OVR MOST GLORIOUS PEOPLE'S SOCIALIST DEMOCRATIC EGALITARIAN PROGRESSIVE REPVBLIC.
21:40:37 -!- glogbot has joined.
21:41:57 <pikhq_> LOOKS TO BE GREGOR'S GLORIOVS LOG BOT FOR THE REPVBLIC
21:42:11 <Gregor> I'm making one that actually keeps rawlogs around :P
21:42:15 -!- augur has joined.
21:42:21 <pikhq_> COMRADE GREGOR IS INDEED DOING A GREAT WORK
21:42:38 <Gregor> However, for the moment all you get is
21:42:39 <glogbot> glogbot is currently under development, logs will be available in one metric soon.
21:42:50 <Phantom_Hoover> COMRADE GREGOR, RENAME GLOGBOT TO COMRADE GLOGBOT IN HONOVR OF GLORIOVS SOCIALIST CHANNEL
21:43:40 <zzo38> I am not quite as capitalist as you. I type only some capitalist letters, and mostly typing lowercaseist letter, and also punctuation. But I do not type communist and socialist letters because I am not Soviet Russian.
21:43:55 <Gregor> I hope I've modified multibot to not get D/C'd so much.
21:44:01 -!- EgoBot has joined.
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21:45:06 <oerjan> DECADENT CAPITALIST FREENODE MAY NOT SVPPORT SPACES IN NICKS
21:45:32 <zzo38> Well, sometimes I use capitalist "U"! Because I am typing English, not Socialist.
21:46:31 <oerjan> zzo38: IT'S OK YOV CAN BE DECADENT CAPITALIST CANADIAN AMBASSADOR TO ESOTERICA
21:47:18 -!- glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:47:27 <Gregor> (That was an intentional kill btw :P )
21:47:41 <oerjan> ARGH GLORIOVS LOG BOT HAS BEEN ASSASSINATED
21:49:04 -!- glogbot has joined.
21:49:11 <zzo38> Now I fixed TeX chess program making the default size of tiles 16pt, allowing number of ranks/files changed, allow adding a caption above or below the board, and many more...
21:49:32 <Gregor> !glogbot_join #esoteric-minecraft
21:49:33 <glogbot> Joined #esoteric-minecraft
21:50:00 <Phantom_Hoover> COMRADE GLOGBOT FELL OVT OF FAVOVR WITH GLORIOVS SOCIALIST CHANNEL
21:50:46 -!- glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:50:49 * Gregor continues tinkering ...
21:51:28 <Phantom_Hoover> COMRADE GREGOR IF COMRADE_GLOGBOT DOES NOT JOIN GLORIOVS SOCIALIST CHANNEL THEN STEPS WILL BE TAKEN
21:52:08 <zzo38> Gregor: Maybe it would make sense to make those commands as private messages? Such as "PRIVMSG glogbot :JOIN #esoteric-minecraft" and then another command to set the notice list. And it send NOTICE to all channel and user when there is notification change? At least to me is logical this way. Maybe not you.
21:52:10 <Gregor> More likely though, you will join many other comrades in "too damned annoying to exist land"
21:52:46 <Gregor> zzo38: It just always responds on the channel you request on *shrugs*
21:53:09 <Gregor> zzo38: I could send the same command as a PM and it would only PM me back.
21:55:10 <Gregor> Isn't there a Unix command to run something in the background and echo its pid?
21:55:43 <zzo38> Gregor: I know the shell command you can put & at the end, but I do not know if there is an actual command for that. Maybe there is.
21:56:08 <Gregor> zzo38: I would prefer not to have it in the shell's jobs.
21:56:26 <zzo38> I mean like, it respond to the sender whether or not the command is success. And only if it is successful, send NOTICE to everyone in its internal NOTICE list. Sending SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE subscribe the user privately, and with a channel name as parameter, to add/remove that channel from its internal NOTICE list. Mostly only the head channel would then be added because these notices are not important to other channels.
21:56:49 <zzo38> Gregor: I don't know, sorry.
21:57:19 -!- glogbot has joined.
21:57:53 -!- glogbot has left (?).
21:58:48 <zzo38> For things such as EgoBot and HackEgo it makes sense the way it currently works, but glogbot is making logs so it would make sense the other way instead.
21:58:51 -!- glogbot has joined.
21:59:20 <Gregor> OK, glogbot should be here semipermanently now.
22:00:02 <zzo38> Also mode should be set -i so that you can check the status.
22:02:30 <zzo38> It means turn off invisible mode.
22:02:48 <zzo38> I do not know exactly what it does though.
22:03:26 <zzo38> (The help just says "Designates this client 'invisible'" but it does not prevent you from accessing that user?)
22:04:47 <zzo38> Wikipedia says "cannot be seen without a common channel or knowing the exact name".
22:05:47 <zzo38> However it is probably useful to know the logging is there even without a common channel.
22:07:07 -!- glogbot has left (?).
22:07:15 <Gregor> OK, I was totes lying about stability :P
22:10:35 <zzo38> One of the problems with irc:// URI scheme is in fact explained on Wikipedia. My scheme does not have any of those problems.
22:12:21 <zzo38> Does IPv4 have any "invalid addresses" blocks?
22:12:43 <zzo38> (that are designated as such)
22:15:00 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
22:18:51 <fizzie> I don't think anything's been reserved as "invalid" exactly, but there are for example three blocks that have been reserved for documentation and examples.
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