00:01:14 <quintopia> is Links (or any of its variants) at all usable? do the missing features get irksome?
00:02:32 <zzo38> iconmaster: Is there some command in Lisp to rename commands? If there is, then you can use that in your own programs, maybe.
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00:04:48 <iconmaster> zzo38: IDK, I haven't gotten that far in my Lisp book i'm reading. I bet it's there, though. I actually dont know much Lisp.
00:07:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.).
00:07:24 <quintopia> in fact, it was probably the first language to have a complete meta-programming language built in.
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00:12:39 <elliott> <quintopia> is Links (or any of its variants) at all usable? do the missing features get irksome?
00:12:47 <elliott> it's more usable than lynx, less usable than anything else.
00:12:57 <elliott> elinks supports slightly more than links I think, but most people seem to prefer links.
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00:13:03 <elliott> also links has that graphical mode that can even work on the framebuffer.
00:14:52 <quintopia> my real question is "can it run gmail right"
00:15:27 <elliott> quintopia: you mean the javascript version?
00:15:43 <quintopia> i know links and variants support js
00:15:59 <zzo38> The only telephone in all of hell (local calls only, please).
00:16:03 <elliott> links' js engine was removed IIRC
00:16:06 <elliott> because it was unsalvagably shit
00:16:16 <elliott> quintopia: why don't you want to use a graphical browser, anyway
00:16:39 <elliott> <elliott> quintopia: why don't you want to use a graphical browser, anyway
00:16:56 <elliott> quintopia: conkeror. vimperator
00:17:05 <elliott> both much easier to use w/ kb than links
00:17:18 <elliott> considering they're designed for it, yes.
00:17:32 <elliott> conkeror if you want emacs. vimperator if you want vim.
00:17:35 <quintopia> they don't require me to memorize thousands of keyboard shortcuts do they?
00:17:44 <quintopia> i want it to be obvious which keys do what
00:17:56 <elliott> a key is just a single letter. it is impossible for it to be self-documenting.
00:18:23 <quintopia> like the way irssi maps keys to windows
00:18:35 <elliott> ok. so that's a single numerical selection done.
00:18:38 <elliott> and you can only have one of them
00:18:41 <quintopia> it doesn't have to be self-documenting, jsut intuitive
00:18:44 <elliott> that does not in any way generalise.
00:18:57 <elliott> intuitive is another word for familiar. you are evidently new to these kinds of browsers.
00:19:04 <elliott> thus apart from the common subset shared with editors, it cannot be intuitive.
00:19:24 <elliott> http://www.asktog.com/papers/raskinintuit.html
00:19:28 <elliott> intuitive equals familiar.
00:19:42 <quintopia> no, they are similar concepts, but not the same
00:19:51 <elliott> quintopia: anyway, if you actually want it, learning a dozen or so keys is trivially a sunk cost.
00:20:04 <elliott> if you use a browser often, it would be difficult for them not to stick.
00:20:05 <quintopia> intuitive means "there is a ready metaphor for mapping the new ideas to familiar ones"
00:20:13 <quintopia> they don't have to already be familiar in themselves
00:20:25 <quintopia> but yeah a dozen doesn't sound bad
00:20:32 <elliott> quintopia: http://www.asktog.com/papers/raskinintuit.html
00:20:38 <elliott> intuitive equals familiar.
00:20:41 <elliott> "there is a ready metaphor ..." = familiar.
00:20:53 <quintopia> why do you keep citing that page when i've already told you i disagree with it
00:21:07 <quintopia> or maybe i disagree with your use of "equals"
00:21:26 <elliott> quintopia: because you responded instantly and therefore have not read it
00:21:33 <elliott> (or you would have responded, "I've read that before")
00:22:23 <quintopia> it's very long. shall i go read it and come back and tell you whether i've changed my mind about disagreeing of your self-proclaimed summary of it?
00:22:25 <elliott> jef raskin is(/was) pretty much the god of human-computer interaction, so the article is well worth reading
00:22:36 <elliott> quintopia: yes. also, my summary is in fact the title.
00:22:54 <elliott> i don't really expect you'll change your mind as people rarely do, at least not immediately, but *shrug*
00:23:03 <quintopia> how can i agree with a paper when i disagree with its title?
00:24:03 <elliott> how many people will disagree vehemently when they hear "Property is theft!" and on further consideration of Proudhon's words, agree?
00:24:07 <elliott> I'd say significantly more than zero.
00:24:18 <elliott> the article is to convince you that the title means something, and that that meaning is true
00:24:41 <elliott> you are expected, therefore, to have an open mind about the topic in question for the duration of reading and mentally processing the article. this is how things work, I think.
00:26:27 <elliott> come ooon, bitcoins! get mined!
00:27:01 <elliott> i'm getting like 5.6 megahashes/sec
00:27:09 <elliott> and people with real graphics cards get >300
00:27:39 <quintopia> i can agree with the part where it says "intuitive = uses readily transferred, existing skills." that's almost exactly what i said earlier.
00:28:17 <elliott> quintopia: then what is your definition of familiar
00:28:18 <elliott> 22:19:35: <Vorpal> elliott, why do you want to do befunge93? Besides how many fingerprints did you do in your last befunge98 implementation? And did you publish the source anywhere?
00:28:28 <elliott> Vorpal: I wanted to do befunge-93 because I dunno, I felt like I could get it fast.
00:28:55 <elliott> [~/Code/shiro/Shiro/Fingerprints]% l *.hs
00:28:55 <elliott> BOOL.hs DIRF.hs EVAR.hs FILE.hs FING.hs MODU.hs NULL.hs REFC.hs ROMA.hs
00:29:06 <elliott> (One of those is incomplete; I forget which.)
00:29:10 <Vorpal> I just hope it don't die next time you move to another computer
00:29:18 <elliott> I could easily add more, but I'm waiting on a monadic epiphany to reduce code clutter.
00:29:22 <quintopia> familiar means basically "automatic" in my mind. muscle memory. no remapping is needed, because you've done this before, you've got this.
00:29:29 <Vorpal> elliott, thus I hope you uploaded the source somewhere
00:29:43 <Vorpal> also, how else could it get into mycology?
00:29:47 <elliott> Vorpal: It still passes Mycology in less than a second.
00:29:57 <elliott> I suspect that would be quicker were I not running that miner. Maybe.
00:30:41 <quintopia> elliott: yes. i would agree with familiar=known
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00:30:55 <elliott> Vorpal: re: another computer, it won't.
00:31:05 <elliott> Vorpal: I haven't uploaded it yet but I will do once I restructure it and add enough to run slowdown.b98.
00:31:24 <elliott> then I'll replace the fungespace with that one I was considering to make that go quickly.
00:31:30 <elliott> What do you mean by how else could it get into Mycology?
00:32:08 <Vorpal> elliott, Deewiant's style of funge space? Or your own?
00:32:26 <elliott> You mean the one Deewiant has now or the one Deewiant wishes he had (k-d tree)?
00:32:40 <Vorpal> elliott, either actually
00:32:58 <elliott> I was planning on a bounding volume hierarchy type thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounding_volume_hierarchy), because a random Stack Overflow comment said it was usually lighter-weight than k-d trees. Also I /msg'd Deewiant about it and he said it might be suitable. :p
00:33:01 <Vorpal> elliott, besides wasn't k-d to organise the boxes or such?
00:33:13 <elliott> Well, yes. But "the boxes" are just flat arrays.
00:33:28 <elliott> I might go with a quadtree in-between because it's easy.
00:33:33 <elliott> But I don't think that'd help with slowdown, much.
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00:34:13 <elliott> But anyway, I'm pretty happy with Shiro as it is; it passes Mycology with flying colours, and quickly; it doesn't leak memory (that I know of); etc.
00:34:23 <elliott> And it's still less than 4000 lines last I checked.
00:34:28 <Vorpal> elliott, tried valgrind on it?
00:34:40 <elliott> Vorpal: I don't think it'd like the GC.
00:34:55 <Vorpal> elliott, valgrind can manage with some GCs. It doesn't crash for all...
00:35:07 <quintopia> elliott: is shiro now a complete impl of b98?
00:35:10 <elliott> I can >/dev/null with valgrind, right?
00:35:14 <Vorpal> elliott, For example, with python's GC it just spews errors, instead of crashing.
00:35:19 <elliott> quintopia: It's been a complete impl since about day three or four :P
00:35:23 <Vorpal> elliott, I think valgrind goes to stderr yes
00:35:50 <elliott> Hmm, valgrind sure does slow a program down.
00:35:51 <Vorpal> elliott, more like mid-morning day three
00:36:07 <elliott> Well, whatever. Early on :)
00:36:15 <elliott> Uh, I should probably do --leak-check=full?
00:36:19 <elliott> At least it printed no errors, just summaries.
00:36:22 <Vorpal> elliott, but anyway, it wouldn't have been that fast without the constant help of Deewiant
00:36:23 <elliott> It "suppressed" 4 from 4, though.
00:36:41 <Vorpal> elliott, suppressed is about stuff in libc.
00:36:41 <elliott> Vorpal: Well, actually, after I figured out how profiling works most of the optimisation was me.
00:36:45 <elliott> Apart from that one stupid function.
00:36:56 <elliott> It was the *compliance* that Deewiant helped shitloads with :P
00:37:05 <elliott> (I know how profiling works, I mean, I just didn't know how to get GHC to do it.)
00:37:11 <Vorpal> elliott, like, strlen optimised because it knows it can access invalid memory as long as it doesn't cross a page boundary
00:37:32 <Vorpal> <elliott> It was the *compliance* that Deewiant helped shitloads with :P <-- that is what I meant
00:37:40 <Vorpal> elliott, I meant fast, as in fast development
00:37:49 <Vorpal> not fast as in fast execution
00:38:12 <elliott> Well, see, Deewiant is the only person who knows the details of Deewiantfunge-98, which is the language that every Mycology-compliant interpreter implements :P
00:38:32 <elliott> ==18138== 98,964 (384 direct, 98,580 indirect) bytes in 3 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 16 of 16
00:38:32 <elliott> ==18138== at 0x4C2815C: malloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:236)
00:38:32 <elliott> ==18138== by 0x593FAE2: __gconv_open (gconv_open.c:197)
00:38:32 <elliott> ==18138== by 0x593F5F1: iconv_open (iconv_open.c:72)
00:38:32 <elliott> ==18138== by 0x4AA0C4: ??? (in /home/elliott/Code/shiro/shiro)
00:38:42 <elliott> Dunno what that's about. (With --leak-check=full.)
00:38:48 <elliott> Anyway: ==18138== Reachable blocks (those to which a pointer was found) are not shown.
00:38:53 <elliott> Pretty sure the GC keeps a pointer to things.
00:39:17 <elliott> And I'm also pretty sure that garbage can be left un-freed if they escape the GC. Say it's conservative, or the program ends before it gets GC'd.
00:39:22 <elliott> So I wouldn't trust valgrind much here.
00:39:25 <Vorpal> elliott, "Deewiantfunge-98" is one of the saner interpretations of the confusing standard. As far as I know the only direct contradiction he makes towards the standard is making t actually work.
00:39:37 <elliott> Vorpal: also y's interpretation of bounds
00:39:47 <elliott> unless you consider the statement that something is useful for something else bound by sanity and taking precedence over the previous line
00:39:54 <Vorpal> elliott, Nope. The standard contradict itself there.
00:40:02 <elliott> it just doesn't use the same definition of useful as you
00:40:06 <Vorpal> elliott, It is said to be suitable iirc?
00:40:18 <elliott> also, it's in italics, and written informally, which makes me question its normativity
00:40:26 <Vorpal> elliott, should ask cpressy next time he shows up
00:40:27 <elliott> but even if you accept it, you have to assume "useful" is used sanely
00:40:37 <elliott> and binding the Funge-98 standard to sanity is a bad idea :-D
00:40:39 <Vorpal> elliott, come on, the whole standard is written pretty informally :P
00:40:51 <elliott> Vorpal: re: cpressey: I think he's heard enough about Funge-98 for one lifetime :P
00:40:58 <elliott> And seems to know the spec less well than we do.
00:41:06 <quintopia> elliott: as i recall, there was still a major bug past day 7 which prevented it from being called an implementation at all
00:41:26 <elliott> If you mean the "o" thing, yes, that took a little while to fix.
00:41:38 <Vorpal> elliott, what o thing btw?
00:41:42 <elliott> Vorpal: text mode, I think.
00:41:48 <elliott> I implemented o but did it a bit wrongly, because I hadn't bothered to get it right yet.
00:41:50 <Vorpal> ah yes that one is a PITA
00:41:54 <elliott> But since o is optional, I could flip one bit and everything would be fine :P
00:41:59 <elliott> (in y, and also make o reflect)
00:42:25 <elliott> anyway, running slowdown and running fungot are the priorities, in that order. but it's still pending on me figuring out a nice way to express the maybe stacks.
00:42:25 <fungot> elliott: and are you really interested or are you just rather stuck as to what the point is that using your own macros. at least not for implementing scheme?
00:42:31 <Vorpal> elliott, text and binary more in i and o don't correspond at all in functionality :P
00:42:39 <fungot> elliott: allocate to that result ( i.e., he's probably devoting much more time
00:43:16 <elliott> so i think rcfunge is now completely unmaintained
00:43:20 <elliott> last release april 2010 by susan
00:43:30 <elliott> not that cfunge has had a more recent release, admitteldy
00:43:42 <elliott> did you ever implement that O(1) wrapping?
00:43:55 <Vorpal> elliott, hm nope, forget. Will look at it this weekend.
00:44:16 <Vorpal> elliott, and then probably get a release out some day soon. The code is pretty stable nowdays.
00:44:24 <elliott> i cheated with that one, spawned a new thread to look into the trivial problem rather than devoting brain cells to it
00:44:34 <elliott> (aka: asked my reading-mathematics friend)
00:44:46 <elliott> (just to give him a taste of what his degree will go towards!)
00:44:50 <elliott> (being bugged with trivialities!)
00:44:56 <Vorpal> elliott, wait what? I don't get the context of that line "<elliott> i cheated with that one, [...]"
00:45:19 <elliott> and reading is the Posh(tm) term for studying, before you ask
00:45:30 <Vorpal> elliott, what math friend? oerjan?
00:45:40 <elliott> no. not someone in this channel
00:45:49 <Vorpal> elliott, what's wrong with oerjan?
00:45:50 <elliott> and I think oerjan's mathematics got read quite some time ago :D
00:45:58 <elliott> Vorpal: i don't trust him to actually do work :D
00:46:12 <Vorpal> elliott, you mean he will tell you to do it yourself?
00:46:54 <elliott> hmm, I used System.Posix.Env rather than foreign.
00:47:21 <elliott> class (Show fp, Typeable fp,
00:47:21 <elliott> Typeable (FPGlobalState fp),
00:47:38 <Vorpal> <elliott> hmm, I used System.Posix.Env rather than foreign. <-- why is that an issue?
01:02:14 <elliott> huh, multics was written in a (relatively) HLL (for the 60s)
01:09:50 <oerjan> <elliott> Vorpal: i don't trust him to actually do work :D <-- YOU ARE WISE BEYOND YOUR YEARS. well, sometimes.
01:12:17 <zzo38> Someone in this channel said before that draws occur 50% in cricket. I suppose one way to make draws occur less often is to make the rules changed a bit during the last half hour of play.
01:13:03 <Vorpal> wait, do we have someone who actually understand the rules of cricket in here?
01:13:20 <Vorpal> I thought that was impossible unless you played it
01:13:49 <elliott> wow, the word "forum" for a BBS dates back to the 60s (multics)
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01:14:29 <zzo38> Vorpal: It isn't impossible. It is just a bit difficult.
01:16:35 <Vorpal> zzo38, ... ... ... I suggest you look up hyperbole in a dictionary.
01:18:12 <elliott> hmm, multics has similarities to my system
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01:18:37 <zzo38> elliott: What similarities?
01:20:47 <elliott> the fs/ram unification, use of paging, use of REPL as shell...
01:20:51 <elliott> "502 Bad Gateway" --mining.bitcoin.cz
01:20:53 <elliott> i don't like the sound of that, nginx
01:23:06 <zzo38> Can you please tell me what REPL means?
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01:33:28 <elliott> zzo38: Read-Eval-Print-Loop.
01:33:44 <elliott> (define (repl) (display (eval (read))) (newline) (repl)) ;; an example (minimal) REPL in scheme
01:33:59 <elliott> basically, a prompt that lets you input program snippets, have them evaluated, and see the result.
01:34:10 <elliott> an interactive shell is this for the language sh
01:34:58 <elliott> hey, algol 68 called a procedure printf. wonder if it does the same as c printf.
01:35:47 <elliott> more like a variadic print procedure
01:35:53 <elliott> printf (($2l"The sum is:"x, g(0)$, m + n)); ¢ prints the same as: ¢
01:35:54 <elliott> print ((new line, new line, "The sum is:", space, whole (m + n, 0))
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01:37:16 <elliott> What's it at now -- $5,000? Hit your limit yet?
01:37:34 <libc\x2Eso> I'm not going to discuss it in this channel.
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02:03:06 <elliott> Sgeo: that's a record time for finding christ
02:03:20 <elliott> you could enter the christianlympics
02:05:27 * elliott CACKLES EVILLY AS HE PLACES HIS $5,000 BID
02:06:02 <libc\x2Eso> `addquote 00:07:15: -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.). 00:12:58: -!- Sgeo has joined #esoteric.
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02:06:52 <libc\x2Eso> Did you see when I said that the baker should support s/// lines? >: )
02:06:53 <elliott> `addquote 00:07 Sgeo has quit (IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.) 00:12 Sgeo has joined #esoteric.
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02:07:06 <elliott> (Yes there's inconsistency wrt quit vs joined formatting, yes it looks better this way :P)
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02:07:18 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: I was gonna do a client plugin for that once :P
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02:12:27 <elliott> wonder what i was gonna say!!!!
02:12:45 <variable> elliott: btw: what about w3m vs links?
02:12:58 <elliott> variable: right. i like w3m a lot.
02:13:02 <elliott> it isn't really similar to links though.
02:13:08 <elliott> w3m is more like lynx that doesn't suck
02:13:14 <elliott> links is more like a graphical browser rendered to a tty
02:13:37 <libc\x2Eso> What we need is e.g. a WebKit backend for curses.
02:13:44 <libc\x2Eso> But it would be the best text browser.
02:14:01 <variable> libc\x2Eso: no. A Presto backend
02:14:27 <libc\x2Eso> variable: Good luck with convincing Opera :P
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02:14:55 <variable> best april fools joke today: "The GNOME Project is a community which comes together to make great software. "
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02:15:21 <variable> libc\x2Eso: fine, find, Trident
02:15:32 <elliott> <variable> best april fools joke today: "The GNOME Project is a community which comes together to make great software. "
02:16:11 <libc\x2Eso> variable: Saying this as somebody who hates Apple and has painful experiences with WebKit, what do you have against WebKit?
02:17:11 <variable> libc\x2Eso: absolutely nothing
02:17:16 <elliott> I love how everyone (programmer) who hates Apple loves WebKit and LLVM, in fact the two seem almost directly correlated :P
02:17:32 <variable> elliott: I hate apple and love webkit and llvm :-p
02:18:01 <Sgeo> I have no opinion on WebKit, although I do use it. And I like the idea of LLVM, but know little about it. Then again, the fact that I rarely actually write code...
02:18:25 <libc\x2Eso> I have compiled WebKit. Many times. It has done things to me that are horribly inappropriate.
02:18:44 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: It's sorry, it's just... it's just... it's just somewhat Sparta *breaks down sobbing*
02:19:05 <elliott> IT'S SOMEWHAT SPAAAARTAAAA ;;;__;;;;
02:21:34 <variable> it has some insane optimizations - but is completely twisted
02:22:38 <elliott> the fact that js-heavy things are STILL quite slow IRL even with insane things like v8 worries me
02:22:45 <elliott> I dunno what causes it, though
02:22:48 <elliott> probably the DOM, nobody likes the DOM
02:24:50 <elliott> wow, the .p2p has turned into the worst proposal evar
02:24:55 <libc\x2Eso> Mainly DOM, rendering and the conversion layers between JS and the real implementation of the DOM.
02:25:05 <elliott> central authority (LOL), based on trusting existing CAs (LOL)
02:25:08 <elliott> "Require ownership of the same domain under another tld (like .net,.com,.org)"
02:25:13 <elliott> and first-come first serve
02:25:43 <elliott> previously it was to create a decentralised naming system after the revocation rights were abused
02:25:50 <elliott> oh, I think it was the wikileaks debacle
02:26:17 <libc\x2Eso> I want to own some semi-provocative .xxx domain with totally uninteresting content, just to be the only non-porn domain on .xxx (that doesn't just forward elsewhere)
02:26:36 <elliott> Just get scholarly-discussion.xxx
02:26:58 <elliott> UnofficialOverclockingEULA = I confirm that I am aware of unofficial overclocking limitations and fully understand that MSI will not provide me any support on it
02:27:06 <libc\x2Eso> Naw, I would get college-action.xxx and then it'll just be a discussion of various scholarly topics.
02:27:17 <quintopia> what is the character that in vim means "the entire file" (as a range)?
02:27:32 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: hot-college-teen-actions: What to do if you're a female college student and just need to cool down!
02:27:43 <elliott> Err, forgot to mention female in there.
02:27:49 <elliott> hot-teen-college-girl-action
02:29:03 <elliott> Sgeo: So did you find Christ?
02:29:44 <libc\x2Eso> hot-christ-on-college-girl-action.xxx // about college students finding Jesus
02:30:52 <Sgeo> elliott, I did find an empty cave...
02:31:03 <elliott> fuck-me-jesus-say-wet-lesbian-college-girls: Girls in college, who happen to be lesbian, after a water pistol fight, realise the inaccuracy of their previous beliefs and exclaim "Fuck me -- Jesus!", as an admittance that Jesus is the answer.
02:31:15 <Sgeo> Ok, that came out wrong. I did not intend for that to sound serious
02:31:28 <elliott> Sgeo: THAT EMPTY CAVE IS JESUS.
02:31:50 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: So anyway, about "semi-provocative" :P
02:32:13 <Sgeo> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:JesusOrgy.jpg
02:34:28 <oerjan> quintopia: for ex mode ranges, %
02:34:51 <oerjan> for normal mode, G provided you are at the beginning to start with
02:35:49 <oerjan> or 1G if you are at the end
02:36:04 <quintopia> can you give an s command that would replace the first letter of a word with F and the remaining letters with U?
02:36:14 <zzo38> I do not like a lot of the new TLDs.
02:36:27 <quintopia> i know vi doesn't support perl regexes, so i'm not sure how to do it
02:36:59 <oerjan> quintopia: you could replace all with U first, then replace the first with F
02:37:11 <zzo38> elliott: Doesn't matter. I still do not like a lot of the new TLDs.
02:37:24 <quintopia> i suppose s/./U/ would do the former. how do i do the latter?
02:37:30 <zzo38> (Go up above where .xxx was mentioned in this channel)
02:38:50 <oerjan> i was assuming vim, since that's what it started with
02:39:05 <zzo38> Perhaps .coop is not too bad, but I would restrict it to three letters, not four.
02:39:28 <elliott> zzo38: why? lots of country TLDs are two-characters
02:39:35 <elliott> no reason to not allow four characters
02:39:55 <zzo38> Yes, countries should be two letters and everything else three letters.
02:40:04 <zzo38> Any non-country should not be two letters.
02:40:18 <elliott> Deewiant: that has nothing to do with tlds
02:40:27 <elliott> And some countries are three letters, IIRC
02:40:46 <elliott> The proposal was soundly rejected every time, was it not
02:40:51 <quintopia> are you ever gonna become gregor again?
02:41:01 <zzo38> Well, I think countries should not be three letters. They should be two letters.
02:41:14 <elliott> "The ICANN Board voted to approve the sTLD on 18 March 2011."
02:41:23 <elliott> quintopia: because it is a terrible, terrible idea
02:41:34 <zzo38> I really dislike .mobi. TLDs should not be used for that kind of thing.
02:41:35 <elliott> lemme find the rfc about it
02:41:39 <libc\x2Eso> Because all the porn is already on .com
02:41:48 <quintopia> i think a TLD just for porn sites is a great idea
02:41:49 <libc\x2Eso> So having a separate TLD accomplishes nothing.
02:42:12 <elliott> i'm trying to find the long official paper about it
02:42:16 <elliott> quintopia: lol, you are joking right?
02:42:33 <elliott> sometimes i delay laughing at people in case they're being funny, not stupid, but usually that turns out to be misguided :/
02:42:35 <quintopia> man if i were a porn site, i'd totes want a .xxx name
02:42:39 <libc\x2Eso> If they forced all the porn there that would be terrible, and if they don't then it's pointless. Even if all new sites only went to .xxx, that's useless.
02:42:47 <elliott> quintopia: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3675
02:42:52 <elliott> RFC 3675, SEX CONSIDERED DANGEROUS
02:42:57 <elliott> (when rendered in ONLY UPPERCASE LETTERS)
02:43:06 <variable> .XXX was just a money making thing
02:43:24 <elliott> quintopia: When an RFC is created specifically to diss your idea in amazing detail, your idea SUCKS.
02:43:55 <elliott> Or is just SO BRILLIANT that it's beyond the combined efforts of the RFCers :)
02:44:06 <libc\x2Eso> The RFC is mostly about /forcing/ all relevant things to be on that TLD (or other such restrictions).
02:44:10 <variable> elliott: but the IETF knows EVERYTHIN
02:44:15 <libc\x2Eso> Nobody's forcing all porn to .xxx. Aside from being infeasible it's horrible.
02:44:37 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: I still hope the .xxx TOS REQUIRE adult content.
02:44:49 <libc\x2Eso> That would be pretty hilariously awesome :P
02:44:50 <variable> the porn sites *don't* want it in fear that it *will* be forced and thus lead to *censorship*
02:44:55 <Sgeo> Wait, .xxx is becoming real?
02:45:06 <elliott> 8. It is not acceptable to own an .xxx domain which does not respond to HTTP requests on port 80 with teh hot pr0nz.
02:45:19 <variable> libc\x2Eso: it wouldn't be hilariously awesome until they tried to enforce it
02:45:22 <elliott> 9. Lesbians cut registration fees by half
02:45:30 <Sgeo> The HEAD HTTP request will have to have new meaning
02:45:33 <variable> You don't have port: your domain is deregistered :-)
02:45:38 <quintopia> man, forcing them to go to xxx is stupid yes, but having .xxx at the end of your pron site domain is p awesome
02:45:58 <quintopia> i bet some of the bigger sites get the .xxx version of their .com name just so other people don't
02:45:59 <variable> quintopia: xxx.xxx and sex.xxx will be the most expensive I bet
02:46:07 <zzo38> TLDs should not be based on service or protocol or anything like that. They should be based on what country, or the owner group, or possibly also for special kind of networks. TLDs like .mobi or .gopher are dumb and do not meet this criteria. Also .cat is no good either, and .travel is also not so good.
02:46:11 <variable> quintopia: also - they do that for all the TLDs
02:46:30 <Sgeo> zzo38, I take it you hate .museum?
02:46:31 <variable> IMHO .com, .net, .org, countries
02:46:35 <quintopia> making .xxx happen will be very profitable to the TL registrars, and therefore it is a good idea
02:46:40 <elliott> <variable> You don't have port: your domain is deregistered :-)
02:46:44 <elliott> they'll use those auto porn detection systems
02:46:52 <elliott> and rig up the _no porn_ output to automatic deregistration
02:47:05 <elliott> ones that come up as porn will be forwarded on to agents for... uhhh... double checking
02:47:19 <elliott> FINALLY A SAFE HAVEN ON THE INTERNET WHERE PORN IS PROTECTED
02:47:29 <zzo38> Yes, same with .museum, since a museum could get .com or .org instead probably (depending on whether the museum is commercial)
02:47:39 <variable> IMHO .com, .net, .org, countries --> no more
02:47:42 <elliott> are they blocking .xxx or something?
02:47:51 <elliott> variable: that leaves no space for individuals
02:47:53 <elliott> also, i find country tlds lame
02:48:01 <elliott> AFAICT they're only ever used to reduce name conflicts
02:48:05 <variable> elliott: http://thenextweb.com/asia/2011/03/24/india-to-block-xxx-top-level-domain/
02:48:08 <elliott> or to show idiotic patriotism
02:48:22 <elliott> you give yourself a .me.uk, you move to America, your domain is now silly
02:48:28 <variable> elliott: IMHO country TLDs are basically for the government sites. I don't even want to see .co.uk or whatever
02:48:35 <elliott> your corporation gets a .fi, expands to become international, your domain is now silly
02:48:38 <variable> also they are useful for localization
02:48:48 <variable> although I prefer the http headers for that
02:48:51 <elliott> you create patriotismhooray.us, you put waving american flag gifs on it, I hate you
02:48:58 <elliott> variable: agreed wrt headers
02:49:01 <elliott> although they suck for users
02:49:06 <elliott> because nobody knows about them
02:49:16 <variable> elliott: the interface needs to expose a "pick a language for this site"
02:49:30 <elliott> variable: anyway, I would also add some personal TLD
02:49:32 <elliott> but it'd have to be non-lame
02:49:44 <variable> elliott: personal tld? ie for random people?
02:49:44 <elliott> .me is supremely lame (and yet another cctld abuse), .name is also lame
02:49:49 <elliott> mostly because of the first.last.name thing
02:49:56 <elliott> variable: for people in general
02:50:05 <elliott> people aren't organisations, corporations or ISPs
02:50:11 <elliott> yes, but .me is really cheesy.
02:50:24 <variable> elliott: I want to see the TLD meanings enforced though
02:50:38 <elliott> variable: Meh -- I don't like TLDs much
02:50:41 <quintopia> oerjan: does there exist a series of regex subsitutions that takes a string like "what the hell was elliott talking about?" and make it be "TROL OLO LOLO LOL OLOLOLO LOLOLOL OLOLOL"
02:50:57 <Sgeo> http://fuck.me ?
02:50:59 <zzo38> The OpenNIC are also pretty bad -- the things they use TLDs for are not what they should be used for, with the possible (maybe) exception of .null and .glue. Maybe even .micro. But all of them ought to be reduced to three letters, and .micro should be registered as subdomains for countries and then subdomains of those as the normal domains, so all .micro would need at least three parts of the domain name instead of two.
02:51:03 <elliott> variable: they're really just Yet Another attempt to impose a Great Ontology of Everything
02:51:11 <elliott> which never works and never will or can work
02:51:32 <variable> elliott: I don't necc. like a hierarchical system. But can you provide a different unique identifier per "site" ?
02:51:37 * Sgeo biCYCles on elliott's head
02:51:47 <variable> (that doesn't reduce to a hash or other non-rememberable thing)
02:51:50 <elliott> variable: I'm not sure. I'm also not sure you need to or want to.
02:51:54 <elliott> variable: Naming is very, very hard.
02:52:01 <zzo38> I have a gopher service too, but gopher is the protocol, it doesn't belong in the TLD.
02:52:04 <elliott> Naming is possibly the hardest thing in systems.
02:52:19 <variable> elliott: the two hardest things in computer science are naming things, cache invalidation, and off-by-one errors
02:52:25 <Sgeo> zzo38, so, you'd be opposed to gmail.email ?
02:52:33 <elliott> But naming is the hardest by far (for systems and not actual programming).
02:52:39 <zzo38> Sgeo: Yes. I would be opposed to that too.
02:52:42 <elliott> variable: Anyway, while I'm not a complete decentralisation nut like some people, I do find DNS worrying.
02:53:14 <Sgeo> en.wikipedia.http
02:53:24 <elliott> variable: Anyway, squaring Zooko's triangle is still something I think about on a regular basis.
02:53:34 <Sgeo> illegalbooks.ftp
02:53:34 <elliott> http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/squarezooko seems quite promising.
02:53:58 <variable> elliott: I'm follow DNS and related constructs very closely (IETF mailing lists, NANOG, DNS-operations, etc) I find the discussion very interest
02:54:10 <elliott> variable: Yeah, I'm not the type to follow mailing lists religiously though.
02:54:13 <zzo38> The protocol does not belong in the TLD. If you have multiple computers on the network with different protocols, use the leftmost part to indicate the protocol, not the rightmost part.
02:54:14 <Sgeo> espresso.coffee
02:54:33 <Sgeo> im-a-teapot.coffee
02:54:35 <elliott> In @, a global name would actually just reference an object, and you only really ever need one: past that, you can handle your own naming to your heart's content. Of course the same applies to DNS.
02:54:55 <variable> elliott: agreed. the TLDs are just namespace reduction devices
02:55:00 <elliott> But in @ I'm pretty sure the naming system would just be a (bidirectional) map of name to object hash. (Object hash retrieval is a separate concern.)
02:55:03 <elliott> The issue is allocating this map.
02:55:21 <elliott> variable: you might want to read that blog post, it's very interesting
02:55:28 <Sgeo> elliott, how is BitCoin human-meaningful?
02:55:46 <zzo38> I think what Knuth said about naming things in computer science, in writing programs, is look in a thesaurus if you need help.
02:55:58 <variable> elliott: "dynamically translating between different possible kinds of names." --> this is how phonebooks work
02:56:01 <zzo38> To me, BitCoin is meaningful for experimental purposes only.
02:56:08 <elliott> variable: I do not mean the article on zooko's triangle :P
02:56:12 <elliott> variable: I mean http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/squarezooko
02:56:16 <elliott> and no, it's not really the same as a phonebook I don't think
02:56:29 <elliott> zzo38: bitcoin can be and is traded for real-world currency and goods
02:56:40 <variable> zzo38: Sgeo: bitcount is based on very unsound economics
02:56:42 <elliott> variable: I don't think anyone's proposed this before bitcoin
02:56:50 <elliott> bitcoin is perfectly sound
02:57:21 <zzo38> variable: Yes, is one thing I mean. BitCoin is good for experimental purposes.
02:57:25 <Sgeo> variable, I don't mean the economics part, although I'd be interesting in you describing how it's unsound. I'm more thinking how anyone thinks BitCoin has anything to do with human-meaningful names
02:57:28 <variable> elliott: reading that blog post
02:57:43 <elliott> please do respond about bitcoin, though
02:59:42 <variable> elliott: I don't have the time to defend myself right now, but the basic idea is that early adopters get a uncatchable advantage in event of a sudden increase in number of users
02:59:54 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
03:00:02 <elliott> variable: please don't make such strong statements if you won't defend them.
03:00:06 <elliott> It's really bad for the discourse.
03:00:24 <variable> elliott: I'll defend it in a couple of days (ask me after monday)
03:00:31 <elliott> variable: Anyway, that is not really true at all: if you mean because mining gets harder and then ends, mining isn't the most efficient way to get bitcoins at all.
03:00:51 <elliott> have you read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths?
03:01:04 <elliott> was that a yes to my have you read? it was quite quick.
03:01:30 <variable> elliott: I'm repeating the conclusion section of articles in economics journals
03:01:42 <variable> I understand the reasoning to a basic extent
03:01:53 <elliott> variable: There are plenty of articles making plenty of conclusions in plenty of journals.
03:02:15 <elliott> If you truly have discovered a fatal flaw in Bitcoin, I'm sure the developers would love to know about it, but I very much doubt it.
03:02:29 <variable> elliott: these flaws are not 'fatal' flaws
03:02:44 <elliott> You said "based on very unsound economics".
03:02:55 <elliott> Things that are based on very unsound things don't tend to be salvageable.
03:03:00 <variable> elliott: I should have said: 'possibly based on unsound ...'
03:03:44 <elliott> Anyway, it's getting a bit too close to conspiracy theories for me to state this without implicit quotes, but it has to be said that the kind of people who write in economics journals _might_ have slightly vested interests.
03:03:47 <variable> elliott: there are other issues relating to fraud and such (as in securities fraud, not "I have a fake bitcoin" fraud)
03:03:51 <elliott> Of course this should not affect the validity of the raw logic itself.
03:04:25 <variable> elliott: yes. Ask me after monday and I'll fully defend myself (or at least my understanding of the original author's argument)
03:04:42 <variable> my understanding of economics is minimal
03:04:45 <oerjan> quintopia: i don't know
03:04:59 <elliott> The only advantage early adopters of bitcoin have is that they can mine faster and more, and in a wider view, they are the only ones who can mine at all. But considering the real-world cash exchanges, the fact that you can buy substantial real-world goods with bitcoins (albeit not very commonly), and the fact that some people will even pay you for freelancing work in bitcoins (but again rarely), and I
03:04:59 <elliott> think that mining is irrelevant in the long-run.
03:05:18 <elliott> I don't think bitcoin is any more subject to securities fraud than any other currency.
03:05:21 <elliott> Anyway, that's my initial statement.
03:05:34 <elliott> Maybe I have a vested interest too as a miner is currently hogging up my utterly terrible GPU, but :)
03:06:18 <elliott> variable: So we're on the same page, can you agree that if Bitcoin was, in your opinion, not flawed in the economic thing, it would be a Very Good Thing?
03:07:07 <variable> elliott: I would still like the diversity that having multiple currencies gives (in event that something *does* happen) but in general I would agree that it is a Good Thing
03:07:22 <elliott> Oh, certainly, more currencies is a good thing.
03:07:33 <elliott> But they should have to compete :-)
03:07:55 <variable> "Tracing a coin's history can be used to connect identities to addresses. More info. " ---> this is also a major issue
03:08:14 <elliott> (It is possibly an impressive feat of cognitive dissonance to maintain slightly left-wing economic opinions and support bitcoin which is a very libertarian system; I haven't decided yet.)
03:08:39 <elliott> variable: that's true, but it is not as big a deal as it seems
03:08:46 <elliott> variable: for one, you can use a new address for every transaction if you wish
03:09:00 <elliott> variable: for two, you can avoid creating a new record by agreeing with the receiver to not pay the (optional) transaction fee
03:09:23 <elliott> variable: and three, if you really want to break any record, just convert it to another currency and back
03:09:33 <elliott> also: "While the Bitcoin technology can support strong anonymity, the current implementation is usually not very anonymous."
03:09:34 <variable> elliott: I've been described as a libertarian - but I disagree with some, but not all, libertarian views
03:09:48 <elliott> I'm a supporter of taxes :-p
03:10:14 <elliott> (Less ridiculously stated, I'm a supporter of public services, which require funds.)
03:10:28 <elliott> JOIN THE LIBRARIAN REVOLUTION
03:10:34 <elliott> BOOKS WILL SET US FREE!!!!
03:10:47 <elliott> variable: I never said libertarianism was anarchy.
03:10:51 <variable> elliott: I support *some* public services
03:11:02 <elliott> variable: But libertarians definitely oppose large (to them) taxes.
03:11:11 <zzo38> Which public services?
03:11:14 <elliott> variable: do you support single-payer healthcare? (to use the common term)
03:11:59 <variable> elliott: libertarians oppose unneeded taxes, but anarchists say 'taxes are wrong' (or many of them do)
03:12:23 <variable> single-payer healthcare -> basically no
03:12:28 <elliott> variable: the line is often blurred. consider those who desire no taxes but those which are required to support a police force
03:12:33 <variable> although my view is somewhat nuanced
03:12:38 <elliott> (or in ridiculous cases, a police force that somehow requires no taxes)
03:12:47 <Sgeo> elliott, how does not paying a transaction fee leave anything off the record?
03:13:00 <elliott> variable: then we disagree on a basically fundamental level.
03:13:06 <elliott> and I doubt that is reconcilable
03:13:21 <elliott> forgive my cynicism but i've forgotten, what country do you originate from?
03:13:31 <elliott> forgive my cynicism again, but I'm not surprised
03:16:37 <variable> elliott: "the power has been shifted into your own hands. Fraud will always exist. It's up to you to only send bitcoins to trusted entities" --> another issue. In the real world people routinely have to deal with untrusted entities
03:16:56 <elliott> generate new address, send bitcoin to whoever, never use it again
03:17:30 <variable> "Terrorists fly aircrafts into buildings, but the governments have not yet abolished consumer air travel. " --> false in the US :-)
03:17:57 <elliott> it's now air travel only for the molested
03:18:11 <elliott> not molested? No problem! They take care of that for you before you get on the plane.
03:18:43 <elliott> I should move somewhere that isn't the UK so I can have my European superiority generator working honestly
03:19:30 <Sgeo> http://example.eu
03:20:02 <elliott> It's a nice place. What with our universal healthcare and all OH BURN
03:20:52 <elliott> variable: Problem with .eu is, colder it is, nicer it is :P
03:21:07 <elliott> Until you get to Finland, where the coldness actually causes every personality to freeze and become stone cold.
03:21:23 <elliott> And after a step into Russia, it gets so cold that everyone becomes insane.
03:22:12 * Sgeo puts elliott in Antarctica
03:22:15 <elliott> this miner is a horrible reminder of how pitiful my gpu is :(
03:23:19 <variable> .an Dissolved as of October 10, 2010 :-(
03:25:21 <elliott> variable: also: With no population, there is no indigenous economic activity. The islands' only natural resource is fish; the Australian government allows limited fishing in the surrounding waters.[19] Despite the lack of population, the islands have been assigned the country code HM in ISO 3166-1 (ISO 3166-2:HM) and therefore the Internet top-level domain .hm. The timezone of the islands is UTC+5.[20]
03:26:14 <variable> although .aq competes with .hm
03:26:19 <Sgeo> Browser not working, is that link to an actual site?
03:26:36 <variable> elliott: how I register a .hm domain ?
03:27:55 <elliott> variable: I once wanted to write a script to query all single letter domains dot two-letter ccTLD names, and then filter out the registered ones, the ones that show as "invalid", and then manually filter out the ones with a minimum length polic
03:28:13 <elliott> I firmly believe it is possible to register a three-letter-plus-dot domain name today, just very difficult to find one
03:28:23 <elliott> I know .st make a big deal about charging a lot for shorter ones
03:28:33 <elliott> probably you can get a single-letter one for $9999999999/yr
03:28:49 <elliott> variable: after bit.ly had to censor things because of sharia law, I've soured to the idea of domain hacks.
03:29:04 <Sgeo> elliott, bit.ly censored stuff?
03:29:15 <variable> Sgeo: there was talk of it - duno if they actually did
03:29:54 <variable> I would get o.hm - but I don't want to spend $35
03:30:14 <elliott> deceptionisland.aq ;; COOLEST NAME FOR AN ISLAND ON COOLEST TLD
03:30:21 <elliott> (unfortunately requires www. for website, LESSENING THE AWESOME)
03:30:46 <elliott> because they set up their dns badly, presumably
03:31:11 <variable> I just want a cool domain name I could use for an IRC cloak :-p
03:31:19 <Sgeo> Is there a hcl.aq ?
03:31:37 <variable> .aq is restricted to governments and people with a physical presence
03:33:15 <variable> Educational and scientific institutions operating in the region served by the HM domain are entitled to free registration of an appropriately selected domain name.
03:33:31 <Sgeo> Christian URL shorteners. What's next, Christian Linux distros?
03:33:40 * variable sets up an educational Institute
03:33:58 <variable> Sgeo: not next, before: Ichthux
03:34:07 -!- ch2 has joined.
03:34:12 <Sgeo> variable, I had Ubuntu Christian Edition in mind, actually
03:34:40 <elliott> hmm, technically my code will hang for a bit if the server sends a partial line then waits for ages to complete
03:34:44 <variable> Sgeo: like your last quit message?
03:35:02 <elliott> variable: good luck living on an uninhabited island :D
03:35:18 <variable> elliott: "a virtual online system to learn about the .hm region"
03:35:50 <variable> elliott: and when you go their the page is empty
03:35:59 <variable> as it is a listing of the inhabitants
03:36:06 <elliott> "this white page adequately represents the appearance of these islands"
03:36:37 <elliott> "if it is not white on your computer, please adjust your browser settings for optimum results."
03:36:40 * Sgeo considers grabbing an Ubuntu SE wallpaper
03:36:46 <variable> elliott: reminds me of purple.com
03:37:05 <elliott> I found a subdomain where the guy had actual stuff on, but THE MYSTERY REMAINS
03:37:26 <elliott> he said he actually uses purple in the faq
03:37:31 <elliott> so i went on a mission to find it :P
03:37:34 <variable> (which subdomain did you find ?)
03:37:56 <elliott> it just had some photos or something
03:38:02 <elliott> on some mountain or another :P
03:38:13 <variable> my fav thing is his donation page
03:38:13 <elliott> i find the purple itself to be an inadequate purple on my display, however
03:38:44 <Sgeo> http://www.purple.com/availability.html
03:38:52 <Sgeo> It's possible to lease purple.com
03:38:54 <variable> elliott: support personnel often use purple.com because its easy to say over the phone
03:39:10 <elliott> variable: don't you mean: competent support personnel
03:39:28 <elliott> always qualify tiny subsets :-P
03:39:37 <variable> elliott: on IRC I'm not very precise
03:39:56 <elliott> if this channel doesn't wear you out how will we ever weed the oldbies out
03:40:09 <elliott> oerjan has only lasted with his age with extended use of sarcasm
03:40:10 <variable> elliott: this channel is with ##cs should be
03:40:24 <elliott> * Topic for ##cs set by Quadrescence at Tue Nov 30 19:18:07 2010
03:40:31 <variable> (unrelated - do you guys give cloaks - I want something other than unaffiliated)
03:40:32 <elliott> thank god Quadrescence stopped bothering us.
03:40:40 <elliott> variable: we're not a group afaik :P
03:40:51 <elliott> variable: we might have trouble registering as one, because we don't reaaally own the term esoteric
03:40:56 <elliott> although we worked out we have a pretty good claim
03:41:03 <variable> elliott: doesn't matter - you have the esolong wiki
03:41:19 <elliott> but still, were this channel created today it would be ##esoteric. thank god it wasn't, because ## is ugly.
03:41:20 <variable> elliott: same idea. I could do for you guys if you want
03:41:27 <elliott> don't ops have to register it?
03:41:42 <elliott> -ChanServ- Information on ##cs:
03:41:42 <elliott> -ChanServ- Founder : dixon
03:41:52 <elliott> dixon is Quadrescence's other moronic troll friend.
03:41:58 <elliott> I'm hardly surprised ##cs is a shithole
03:42:02 <variable> elliott: ops *don't* have to register
03:42:10 <elliott> but but but you could be posing as us
03:42:12 <variable> elliott: as long as you have control of the website
03:42:20 <variable> they give you a token to put on
03:42:20 <elliott> we don't have control of "the esoteric website" though :D
03:42:35 <elliott> -ChanServ- Registered : Jan 03 01:30:22 2003 (8 years, 13 weeks, 0 days, 02:11:51 ago)
03:42:40 <elliott> huh, i swear we were registered in 2006 a while ago
03:42:42 <variable> elliott: if you want to go through with this I could talk to the opers
03:42:47 <variable> elliott: I know a bunch of them
03:42:58 <elliott> variable: well it's not my decision to make really
03:43:07 <elliott> i'm happy with my cloak... but a nice domain name is nicer than a nice cloak :P
03:43:18 <elliott> variable: hmm, i can think of at least seventy people who would balk at that statement
03:43:33 <elliott> yeah. always bothering us about fires and shit.
03:43:37 <elliott> i say let it burn, i'm busy ircing!
03:44:07 <zzo38> Is it ever useful in cricket, to sacrifice a wicket by handling the ball or in any other way?
03:44:09 <elliott> http://jeff.purple.com/ oh here we go.
03:44:12 <elliott> yeah google finds this trivially.
03:44:32 <elliott> and that guy's photo is freaking me out argh get back on
03:46:12 <elliott> also http://www.purple.com/index2.html, done googlestalking now :-P
03:47:43 <libc\x2Eso> <elliott> i'm happy with my cloak... but a nice domain name is nicer than a nice cloak :P // I AGREE lololol*runs*
03:48:00 <elliott> says gregor, guy who doesn't even run an identd for a nicer prefix
03:48:12 <libc\x2Eso> I couldn't figure it out *sobblecopter*
03:48:33 <elliott> you could run a fake one that only works for you
03:48:49 <elliott> echo "$line : USERID : UNIX : Gregor"
03:48:55 <elliott> put in inetd for whatever the ident port is
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03:49:47 <libc\x2Eso> elliott: Yeah, but then e.g. glogbot couldn't have "glogbot" as its ident ... it'd be nice to have an identd that any process could say "dear identd: Please lie for me in this way" :P
03:49:58 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: Yes, but it'd be better than what you have :P
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03:50:17 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: There's one identd that just responds with the user that initiated the TCP connection in question.
03:50:25 <zzo38> I have a domain name too but the reverse DNS doesn't work so instead it displays the service provider, which, I suppose, can sometimes be useful in case the country I live is important for some case (which usually isn't, though).
03:50:26 <elliott> http://skarnet.org/software/minidentd/index.html
03:50:33 <elliott> It's one of those djb-freak /package dealies though, so YMMV :)
03:50:43 <elliott> (Not that it'd be hard to move out.)
03:50:55 <elliott> (And, well, I think you do need ucspi-tcp. Maybe.)
03:51:09 <elliott> No wait, there's also the http://smarden.org/ipsvd/ clone :-P
03:52:17 <zzo38> I am deciding to use LodePNG for my program. Have any of you ever used LodePNG, or libpng or some other libraries for loading/saving pictures, in your program? Which ones?
03:53:30 <zzo38> It uses floating point only for deciding Huffman encoding, so there is nothing that would cause different pictures input/output on different computers.
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04:01:00 <libc\x2Eso> I installed nullidentd, it got the auth response, but it sent "foobar" instead of "Gregor" as I specified as an argument >_<
04:01:36 <elliott> libc\x2Eso: You don't need a piece of software for a two-line shell script X_X
04:02:13 <libc\x2Eso> I didn't know how to do an inetd line :P
04:03:18 <elliott> # <service_name> <sock_type> <proto> <flags> <user> <server_path> <args>
04:05:27 <variable> elliott: some jackass pulled the alarm
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04:06:02 <variable> anyways: are you personally interested in the group, if yes, do you think it would be a good idea to get this going?
04:06:23 <elliott> I'm not really personally interested, but I'm not opposed :P
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04:06:34 <elliott> * libc\x2Eso (~Gregor@codu.org) has joined #esoteric
04:06:59 <variable> elliott: who would be 'in charge'? those with ops?
04:06:59 <Guest15127> Oh, did I actually register libc\x2Eso? X-D
04:07:11 <elliott> Guest15127: just trolling, it worked
04:07:35 <elliott> variable: I guess fizzie and oerjan. lament is absentee.
04:08:01 <elliott> oerjan is probably too lazy to get anything out of ;D
04:08:23 <elliott> DON'T TELL LAMENT HE'LL BAN EVERYONE
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04:10:11 <libc\x2Eso> "Coyote finally caught me" // well bip, that is one unique default quit message :P
04:10:46 <elliott> All default quit messages should be as embarrassing as possible
04:10:55 <elliott> * Gregor has quit (WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOORESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS)
04:11:03 <variable> libc\x2Eso: mine are "/dev/io failed" "I found 1 in /dev/zero" and "overflow in /dev/null" for quit, part, away
04:11:24 <elliott> * Gregor has quit (USER HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED FOR BEING A TERRIBLE PERSON)
04:11:50 <zzo38> I just type the quit message every time instead of having it in a macro.
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04:15:01 <zzo38> Because I like to make it not always the same message.
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04:23:42 <zzo38> If you have a array with values 0 to 255 and you need to convert values in that array according to a calculation, is it more efficient to do the calculation every time or to store the results in a lookup table?
04:24:04 <elliott> precalculated lookup table
04:24:19 <zzo38> Yes, it is what I thought, good, OK.
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04:40:08 <oerjan> wow, wil wheaton looks a bit moldy indeed
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05:12:19 <zzo38> I am working on webifying and simplifying LodePNG. LodePNG has even been converted to D, and then maybe they can also put the port to CWEB listed there too.
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05:31:38 <elliott> <oerjan> wow, wil wheaton looks a bit moldy indeed
05:31:48 <elliott> not as much as that seducer of unwilling cats
05:36:19 <Sgeo> I looked at his page, he didn't have many mold
05:37:17 <elliott> "The supervisor for CTSS, the early 1960s predecessor system to Multics, had been written almost entirely in the 7094 assembly program, FAP."
05:37:24 <elliott> oh i can see this document is going to be a lot of fun
05:42:31 <elliott> hmm, this document makes me want to go back to the late 60s
05:44:08 <elliott> Sgeo: afaict mold is over now
05:44:14 <lament> it's not a joke elliott
05:44:26 <Sgeo> elliott, but I looked before it ended
05:44:47 * elliott backs slowly away from lament into a pile of FAP
05:46:25 <elliott> "An idiotic structure was one that contained an array that began at a different place in the machine word for every element: he actually found that the Known Segment Table had a 37-bit array declared in it, requiring the compiler to generate many instructions to advance from one element to another."
05:56:49 <oerjan> the late 60s were a good time for fapping indeed
05:59:28 <oerjan> "GHC migratiön tö Git cömplété" indeed
05:59:36 <oerjan> apparently dons didn't escape :D
06:00:41 <oerjan> Sgeo: he has about 500 mold trophies, though
06:01:02 <elliott> <oerjan> the late 60s were a good time for fapping indeed
06:01:06 <oerjan> so presumably the effect just wore off somehow
06:01:06 <elliott> you'd know. wait do you know?
06:01:12 <elliott> hmm, you're actually old enough :(
06:01:13 <Sgeo> It was possible to escape, apparently
06:01:15 <elliott> and yes, mold spores wear off
06:01:29 <Sgeo> There was a thread in /r/basement for escaping
06:01:40 <oerjan> elliott: not really old enough, i'd be in the womb
06:02:07 <elliott> oerjan: well get out of there already!
06:02:19 <oerjan> i did, just after the late 60s
06:02:51 <elliott> olsner: so you only got born in like 1970? :/
06:03:01 <elliott> olsner got born in like 2002
06:03:09 <elliott> because you know, fuck him
06:04:00 <elliott> http://i.imgur.com/aDJMG.jpg ;; STAY CLASSY, SUN
06:04:11 <elliott> i think the progression from houses to cats is a very serious one.
06:04:19 <elliott> i like how they included a picture of hitler for comparison.
06:04:25 <elliott> also, i swear that house is wearing a beret
06:06:57 <elliott> i bet oerjan wears a beret
06:08:15 <elliott> that's the silence of a beret-wearer.
06:09:55 * oerjan pats olsner on the head
06:10:04 <elliott> oerjan: he's stupid isn't he :D
06:10:28 <elliott> http://www.reddit.com/r/basement/comments/ggq6i/if_som3on3_miss3s_mold_and_r3ads_our_history/ all this is doing is reminding me i still need to finish binging homestuck...
06:11:04 <oerjan> i cannot recall wearing a beret, ever. but then there is a lot i cannot recall.
06:12:46 <elliott> when will you stop coming here oerjan
06:13:53 <oerjan> i don't plan that far ahead.
06:14:06 <elliott> WILL YOU STILL BE HERE WHEN YOU'RE 82
06:14:57 <elliott> hey i just made oerjan feel good about his age :DDDDD
06:15:05 <oerjan> well let's at least hope the replacement is not a step backward
06:15:27 <elliott> hm is there a pun in there
06:15:52 <elliott> oerjan: well maybe it'll be post-singularity.
06:16:04 <elliott> and we'll just sort of hook up our minds to each other in a big circle. like /r/circlejerk, but /r/circle...MIND
06:16:28 <oerjan> yes. and we have to ban certain people lest it become an _actual_ circlejerk
06:18:19 <elliott> and for his 512th birthday, we'll buy oerjan a digital scan of a vintage 2010 computer running the lost compiler of GHC
06:18:45 <oerjan> my mind is now doing a few leaps to notice that "kline" is norwegian for making out
06:18:52 <elliott> can you believe you actually had to type out every single letter you wanted to say to the computer then like a baby, haha
06:19:26 <elliott> oerjan: i'm trying to think of a suitably joking reply
06:20:52 <oerjan> i suppose that might be hard
06:21:50 <oerjan> the music of the night indeed
06:22:51 <elliott> "How many non-moldy Redditors think we should get trophies for our profiles that say "I Survived the Plague"?"
06:23:41 <elliott> hey oerjan, if you don't upvote my comment in http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ggu2r/ghc_migrati%C3%B6n_t%C3%B6_git_c%C3%B6mpl%C3%A9t%C3%A9/, the smilies will win
06:23:45 <elliott> oh wait you have no account
06:23:47 <oerjan> i haven't seen anyone who was _killed_ by the plague yet...
06:24:06 <elliott> oerjan: indeed not. but let's just say that I_RAPE_CATS will never rape again.
06:24:35 <oerjan> what a sad thing, to be bereft of your life mission
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06:31:58 <oerjan> and apparently emacs's april fools joke was that it wasn't a joke?
06:33:15 <elliott> but lexical scoping is still off for files by default
06:33:19 <elliott> so it's not _really_ lexically scoped yet
06:33:35 <elliott> YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND THE SUBTLETIES, VIM USER
06:40:21 <elliott> oerjan: i was wondering why it sounded so uncharacteristic
06:40:30 <elliott> clearly it's message memory, like homeopathy
06:41:15 <oerjan> the fact i usually use O KAY might _possibly_ have something to do with it...
06:42:46 <elliott> yeah, O KAY is getting kinda obnoxious at this point :D
06:43:57 <oerjan> that's because it's _meant_ to be, silly
06:46:06 <elliott> oerjan: yes but no really stop it, child.
06:46:22 * elliott aimed that right at oerjan's offence lobe
06:48:37 <oerjan> my offence lobe exploded from overloading years ago
06:48:55 <elliott> did someone say your FACE looked like a puddle?
06:49:01 <oerjan> no wait, that was my conscience lobe
06:49:14 <elliott> conscientious objectificator
06:49:29 * oerjan captures elliott and applies tickle torture
07:15:39 <oerjan> and a good day to you, sir
07:15:48 <elliott> you're going to sleep soon
07:16:22 <oerjan> you might want to check your data
07:16:44 * elliott makes scribbles on teletyped data
07:16:57 * elliott scrumples up paper, throws in bin
07:19:13 <oerjan> late afternoon, perhaps
07:19:38 <elliott> oerjan: YOUR MEASUREMENTS ARE HAYWIRE
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11:59:04 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, webcomics in French are the most ridiculous thing.
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12:24:24 <Sgeo> Webomics are tools of Satan!
12:24:53 <Sgeo> Especially 1/0! The author compares himself to God!
12:30:30 <Sgeo> I think he has Alzheimers'. Could injure himself, so much power but not a functioning mind. Probably why he stopped doing miracles.
12:30:40 <Sgeo> So I need to find him before he hurts himself and the world
12:34:10 <Sgeo> Dear Chrome: It should not take forever to load a file that's on my hard drive
12:36:01 <Sgeo> On hold for the moment
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13:10:20 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> ...Vorpal was offline? <-- it's called power outage :P
13:10:27 <Phantom_Hoover> He's like some horrifying vision, always at the edge of your perception.
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13:40:38 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: because assholes like you couldnt resist using a time machine to go to the future and take all the cool stuff
14:12:54 <Thunfish> anyone here who wants to try out my implementation of a portable brainfuck compiler in C?
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15:20:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Thunfish, sure, but there's not really much room for innovation there.
15:21:50 <Thunfish> I know, but it's using other technics that I haven't seen in other compilers/interpreters, yet.
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15:23:03 <Thunfish> http://thundersf.bplaced.net/bfjit/bfjit.zip
15:23:33 <Thunfish> I lately added an entry to brainfuck discussion page too.
15:24:38 <Thunfish> I tried my best to write an english ReadMe.
15:28:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Is it just me or does your parser do some optimisation as well?
15:29:49 <Phantom_Hoover> (You might want to look at Esotope, BtW; it's the current best optimising BF compiler.)
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15:36:15 <fizzie> There are also at least a couple LLVM-driven brainfucks that do a mostly trivial translation themselves, but of course inherit all the LLVM optimization machinery. (Of course from an iplementation viewpoint that's pretty boring.)
15:37:44 <fizzie> (In other news, a brief hello from Turku, the okocity.)
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15:46:04 <Thunfish> Wow! Esotope generates very well optimized source code. The only disadvantage, I can find is that it needs an external C compiler. My program was meant to be fast and to be independent of external programs, but I haven't heard about Esotope, yet.
15:48:46 <Phantom_Hoover> The power of Esotope is in its macroöptimisations, so you could probably just work them into a self-contained compiler.
15:52:27 <Thunfish> ok, thank you. I will try to implement some more optimisation mechanisms into my compiler.
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16:44:29 <Phantom_Hoover> I love it when WP defines conventions, then lists all possible ways to define something.
16:45:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Especially when there are two ways to do something and both are widespread.
16:53:48 <Vorpal> hm there is ipv6.google.com and encrypted.google.com, but there seem to be no encrypted ipv6 version, heh
16:54:24 <Vorpal> also why does ipv6.google.com say "go to google denmark"... ?
16:56:48 <libc\x2Eso> Probably doesn't have as good of GeoIP for IPv6 as for IPv4.
16:57:16 <Vorpal> anyone know how to switch the search box in firefox over to use https for google
16:57:18 <libc\x2Eso> Vorpal: Or it just knows that in your heart of hearts you desperately want to be Danish.
16:57:31 <libc\x2Eso> Phantom_Hoover: I shall not discuss it in this channel :P
16:57:51 <Vorpal> I'm looking for where to change it... haven't found it yet
16:57:56 <Vorpal> it isn't about:config at least
16:59:37 <libc\x2Eso> Since . is an invalid character for nicks on Freenode :P
17:00:48 <Vorpal> libc\x2Eso, and on IRC in general afaik?
17:01:00 <libc\x2Eso> Idonno what the RFC has to say about it *shrugs*
17:01:26 <libc\x2Eso> The protocol really has no reason to ban any characters aside from ": \r\n"
17:04:09 <Vorpal> google isn't there however
17:04:37 <Vorpal> aha, it is in /usr/lib, not in my profile
17:04:51 <libc\x2Eso> I was wondering wtf you were blathering about :P
17:04:56 <Vorpal> libc\x2Eso, I was talking about the google issue in another channel.
17:06:15 <Phantom_Hoover> libc\x2Eso, so wait, if you're not discussing libc.so here, I assume you're attempting to fundraise elsewhere on Freenode?
17:06:46 <libc\x2Eso> (Well, a little bit, but with no success :P )
17:08:47 <libc\x2Eso> But the guy I was sure would get it bowed out, so now it's just me, a few who are clearly out already, and a bunch who haven't bid (and so are wildcards)
17:09:06 <libc\x2Eso> I rate my odds as quite low simply because I'm very near to my limit, but as it stands I'm in the lead.
17:09:22 <libc\x2Eso> And oh yeah, I'm not talking about that in here X-P
17:12:31 <Sgeo> Anyone want to fire nukes at the tunes.org server?
17:13:08 <Sgeo> glogbot's in someone in here's control, isn't it? No need to fire nukes there
17:13:35 <libc\x2Eso> My point is why even bother with tunes.org
17:14:04 <Sgeo> Because it's the only log that's outside of our control?
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17:43:18 <Sgeo> <libc\x2Eso> ERASE LAST SIX LINES
17:43:25 <Phantom_Hoover> (And yes, I actually do think that being outside our control is A Good Thing, given Herobrine.)
17:43:45 <Sgeo> What's bad about Herobrine?
17:44:19 <libc\x2Eso> Phantom_Hoover: elliott and I are collaborating on the Future of Logbots.
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17:55:35 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> Note nonexistence of logs on internet. <-- personally I think this can be attributed to elliott rather than being run by someone in the channel /in general/.
17:57:13 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, come on, egobot is mostly stable. Apart from server sluggishness and hickups. So is fungot
17:57:14 <fungot> Vorpal: i don't know what to do
17:57:28 <Vorpal> they don't stop running after a few weeks
17:57:43 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot is run by fizzie who is, like, incapable of anger.
17:57:44 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: common lisp, scheme, oz, erlang, &c.) to infer types
17:57:47 <Vorpal> they sometimes fails yes. But they are always restarted.
17:57:53 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and Gregor's bots?
17:58:19 <Phantom_Hoover> PERHAPS THE DOWNTIME IS NOT SO RANDOM AS WE HAVE BEEN LED TO THINK
17:58:44 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, uh, I doubt that.
17:58:50 <libc\x2Eso> My bots have much improved since I made the odd discovery that if you don't make any output but pongs for a prolonged period, Freenode will disconnect you.
18:02:38 <Vorpal> libc\x2Eso, freenode does what?
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18:19:01 <elliott> 13:36:34: <Phantom_Hoover> ...ELISP is now lexically scoped.
18:19:05 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: not by default alas
18:28:25 <Vorpal> elliott, fizzie: does mcmap work with 1.4?
18:33:20 <iconmaster> Is there a way to make some code execute when a certain file's contents have been changed?
18:34:01 <elliott> Try Linux, then you can use inotify/FAM :P
18:35:25 <iconmaster> I renember hearing there was a way to do this in Powershell, but i forgot what it said...
18:35:58 <elliott> iconmaster: You can always just do a
18:36:16 <elliott> for(;;) {sleep(1); if(readfile() != oldfilecontents) dosomething();}
18:36:24 <elliott> But that'll wake up your CPU all the time.
18:36:49 <iconmaster> That will be good enough... What would that script do if the file was suddenly deleted?
18:37:05 <elliott> Uh. readfile would fail. It's up to you to implement the actual guts :P
18:37:15 <elliott> I also forgot to save the result of readfile to oldfilecontents there.
18:38:54 <iconmaster> SO basically for(;;) {sleep(1); $oldfile = (gc file); if((gc file) -ne $oldfile) {stuff} }
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18:39:26 <elliott> That will almost never execute stuff.
18:39:57 <quintopia> is there a userscript of some sort that makes it impossible for scripts that automatically highlight blocks of text on a webpage to function, or do I have to write it myself?
18:39:59 <iconmaster> It works... but I need to fill in now.
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19:09:37 <elliott> Hey ais523, /msg #esoteric-minecraft with something.
19:10:18 <elliott> ais523: The novelty will never get old!
19:10:30 <Vorpal> ais523, why don't you like minecraft
19:10:49 <Vorpal> and does that mean you are neutral towards it, or dislike it?
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19:11:01 <ais523> Vorpal: vague dislike, I'd say
19:11:32 <ais523> it's trying to glue together two things that might be interesting on their own, to make the result less interesting
19:11:36 <elliott> minecrakrt jsux because ls black black ops is teh bestset st game evar
19:11:39 <Vorpal> ais523, what two things?
19:11:56 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you can easily switch the skin
19:12:00 <ais523> a sort of adventure game, and a sandboxy programming game
19:12:11 <ais523> I mean, you wouldn't try to combine Tomb Raider and Rubicon
19:12:23 <elliott> MC doesn't involve any programming unless you mean redstone
19:12:26 <ais523> (although if you did, you might end up with something quite popular)
19:12:34 <ais523> elliott: well, architecture
19:12:36 <Vorpal> ais523, that sounds... wow
19:12:40 <ais523> which may or may not be programmatically interesting
19:12:50 <Vorpal> elliott, 8 bit computer. Come on
19:13:18 <elliott> Vorpal: that's electrical engineering
19:13:33 <ais523> also, Minecraft's one of those things that the majority of communities have their own server/area for playing, much like Mafia
19:13:50 <elliott> also, Tomb Raider + Rubicon is a game I would play
19:14:17 <Vorpal> elliott, hm. Redstone Engineering
19:14:24 <lament> is minecraft multiplayer?
19:14:26 <Vorpal> redstone doesn't really work at all like transistors
19:14:57 <Vorpal> <ais523> also, Minecraft's one of those things that the majority of communities have their own server/area for playing, much like Mafia <-- yes. There is no official One True Server.
19:14:59 <elliott> Vorpal: no, it's always multiplayer
19:15:02 <Vorpal> ais523, is that an issue?
19:15:20 <ais523> Vorpal: it's not an issue, but I did find it interesting
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21:25:47 <Sgeo> Lexi's in Hotel California
21:26:03 <Sgeo> Sgeo, Butcherer of Jokes
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21:33:18 <ais523> ch2: hmm, are you a spambot?
21:33:24 <ais523> or just have an unusually small lexicon?
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21:33:56 <elliott> I think you hurt its feelings.
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21:35:18 <elliott> ais523: why do you find this funny!
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21:35:58 <ch2> ais523: i hate you :(
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21:37:13 <elliott> ais523: I think you've really hurt its feelings.
21:37:37 <elliott> ch2: do you want to be friends
21:37:52 <libc\x2Eso> ch2: elliott's a douchebag, don't listen to him
21:38:22 <ais523> heh, I just compared the IPs
21:38:33 <ais523> I had an idea that ch2 = elliott, and it's using the same IP that elliott was yesterday
21:38:51 <ais523> indeed, but it's still quite a coincidence
21:38:57 <elliott> yes. very. clearly it is fate
21:39:16 <elliott> FUCKINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
21:39:18 <elliott> TSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
21:40:16 <libc\x2Eso> The two t's in elliott's name are having wild, hot, passionate sex even as we speak.
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21:42:04 <ch2> ais523: i hate you :(
21:42:23 <ais523> elliot________t: hmm, is ch2 a hatredbot?
21:42:33 <ais523> at least, it was an S Q L bot first, but is a hatredbot now?
21:44:11 <elliot________t> -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 110K 2011-04-02 22:42 logs.sqlite3
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21:46:06 <ais523> ah, it's a logbot that isn't Herobrine?
21:46:26 <elliot________t> ch2: how do you respond to this accusation that you're not Herobrine?
21:47:33 <ais523> *isn't called Herobrine
21:48:30 <ais523> elliot________t: so did I, I'm not convinced it's called Herobrine based on its realname data
21:50:39 <ais523> I thought .ch meant Switzerland
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22:04:51 <elliott> ais523: Anyway, ch2 and glogbot are actually in a completely illict relationship*
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22:05:44 <elliott> I swear to god, pipe() is the most annoying possible interface.
22:06:29 <ais523> elliott: the way it takes an array as arg, /and/ returns the arguments the other way round from what you'd expect, in the array?
22:06:38 <ais523> admittedly, it's quite a clever interface for what it's trying to do
22:06:47 <elliott> ais523: Well, yes, but also the fact that I just want to spawn a process and hook into its input and output.
22:07:03 <elliott> And having to call pipe twice, keep track of the indices, and hook it all up with dup, is super annoying.
22:07:07 <elliott> Also I'm not sure how POSIX-portable that is.
22:07:25 <elliott> pipe() too, but not pipe2().
22:07:33 <elliott> ("pipe too but not pipe too" X-D)
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22:19:10 <elliott> I wonder if I could use a hash tree as a storage method.
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22:42:13 * Sgeo unfairly blames calamari for PSOX
22:44:41 <calamari> so I came across an interesting mental challenge (well, interesting to me anyways). in a normal round-robin tournament, players are matched in pairs. but let's say the game has 3 sides (for example, chinese checkers, you could play a triangle of 3 of the 6 tips). if every player must play against each other player exactly once, what's the algorithm to optimize for the least number of matches?
22:45:55 <calamari> there are definitely substandard combos.. for example if I have 6 players and I do 1-2-3 then 4-5-6, then I must have 9 additional matches with just 2 players
22:46:34 <myndzi> that depends on your goal
22:46:45 <myndzi> you could see the goal of a round robin tournament to be to test every permutation of players
22:46:50 <myndzi> in which case your premise is flawed
22:47:13 <calamari> i stated every player must play each other player exactly once
22:47:40 <myndzi> i didn't mean you specifically so much as you generally; i wouldn't expect to see a round robin tournament such as you've laid out
22:50:28 <calamari> but yeah as I stated was correct
22:50:48 <calamari> best I could find for 6 players was 7 matches, 3 with an empty seat
22:51:11 * calamari looks up the handshaking problem
22:52:54 <ais523> is there any number of players, other than 3, for which it's doable with no matches with empty seats?
22:53:09 <myndzi> http://www.devenezia.com/round-robin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224605375
22:53:22 <myndzi> 4 rounds, no empty seats
22:54:19 <ais523> I suppose multiples of 9, it's easy
22:54:57 <myndzi> appears to be some software called hsmaster which can generate round robins for 3 player games(?)
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23:09:45 <myndzi> you can google it as easily as i?
23:09:56 <myndzi> i only came across a video of someone showing how to use it, didn't bother to actually look up the app
23:10:02 <myndzi> it looked old and dated and maybe not like it would run on xp
23:10:13 <myndzi> i also may have misunderstood
23:11:41 <oerjan> <fizzie> (In other news, a brief hello from Turku, the okocity.)
23:13:27 <oerjan> "The unusual dialect in this city is due to rampant sound change, which has worn all vowels and diphthongs down to o, and all consonants and consonant combinations down to k. how the people here manage to understand each other is a mystery to linguists. especially in writing."
23:14:25 <ais523> oerjan: if only you'd got it right first time, it would have been great
23:16:11 <oerjan> koko (new official name of Turku)
23:21:43 <oerjan> <libc\x2Eso> ERASE LAST SIX LINES
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23:41:01 <oerjan> <elliott> ("pipe too but not pipe too" X-D)
23:42:47 <libc\x2Eso> Is it nobler to socket blah blah blah bad pun blah blah
23:43:28 <oerjan> well, _you_ can socket.
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23:51:50 <libc\x2Eso> oerjan: I'll socket your plug any day, oerjan baby ;-*
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