00:00:06 <oerjan> for the want of an ail
00:00:47 <CakeProphet> pikhq: no, I think you should go just a little ways in order to still be reasonable.
00:01:07 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, you aren't that guy I just talked to on that Homestuck Omegle thing are you.
00:01:12 -!- augur has joined.
00:01:14 <pikhq> CakeProphet: M'þinkſt þou are not ſufficiently reaſonable, m'ſelf.
00:03:24 <EgoBot> The wonders of computer science.
00:04:15 <EgoBot> sh sed 's/þ/th/g ; s/Þ/Th/g ; s/ſ/s/g ; s/æ/ae/g ; s/Æ/Ae/g ; s/œ/oe/g ; s/Œ/Oe/g'
00:06:17 <CakeProphet> I'm not entirely sure why that isn't working
00:06:35 <CakeProphet> it does the opposite of what I thought it did. :P
00:07:50 <Phantom_Hoover> !addinterp gregor^-1 sh sed 's/th/þ/g ; s/Th/Þ/g ; s/s/ſ/g ; s/ae/æ/g ; s/Ae/Æ/g ; s/oe/œ/g ; s/Oe/Œ/g'
00:07:50 <EgoBot> Interpreter gregor__1 installed.
00:09:07 <CakeProphet> excellent, I was hoping someone else would do that so I didn't have to. :D
00:10:27 <Phantom_Hoover> !gregor__1 In hindsight, that seems more sensible, given Gregor's stupid mutilation of the name.
00:10:28 <EgoBot> In hindſight, þat ſeemſ more ſenſible, given Gregor'ſ ſtupid mutilation of þe name.
00:11:15 <CakeProphet> Apparently, I use uninterpolated Perl string literals in my English.
00:12:37 <CakeProphet> if I used double quotes something scary might happen.
00:12:55 <pikhq> Hey, look, it outputs wrong.
00:13:02 <ais523> s shouldn't become ſ at the end of a word
00:13:25 <oerjan> or after another s, iirc
00:13:56 <pikhq> It's "ſs", not "ſſ".
00:17:29 <elliott__> hahaha WOW someone is seriously saying that .NET is going to be abandoned in favour of HTML5 and JavaScript
00:17:43 <elliott__> ".NET came out 10 years ago, and Microsoft still has yet to adopt it in Office or throughout Windows."
00:17:48 <elliott__> WHY HAVEN'T YOU REWRITTEN OFFICE YET MICROSOFT
00:19:05 <pikhq> Personally, I'd be amazed if they ever actually replaced their freakish C environment.
00:19:16 <pikhq> It's one of the best bits of platform lockin ever devised.
00:20:46 <CakeProphet> I dream of the day where I get hired to write applications in HTML5 and Javascript.
00:22:06 <pikhq> I dream of the day when I get to replace all software.
00:23:07 <Phantom_Hoover> I dream of the day when I can write software without getting bored within thirty seconds.
00:23:54 <monqy> I dream of the day when writing software isn't awful
00:24:15 <elliott__> Phantom_Hoover: how goes terraingen
00:24:35 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: I've heard Visual Basic keeps things interesting.
00:24:35 <pikhq> I also dream of the day that I can fork() myself.
00:24:48 <elliott__> pikhq: it's really quite easy HUR HUR HUR
00:25:35 <CakeProphet> pikhq: that would be great, I would fork bomb myself and go save the world as a giant collosal human monster.
00:25:56 <monqy> cut off portions of yourself / end world hunger
00:26:01 <elliott__> (jesus himself was a very rowdy man we have toned him down as this channel)
00:27:08 <CakeProphet> monqy: I was thinking more along the lines of forking huge balls of myself as a projectile to hurl at evil-doers, but sure, that sounds like a more realistic world saving strategy.
00:27:29 <pikhq> elliott__: This channel is quintuple-X.
00:29:46 <CakeProphet> or Taco? because these are names I would like to use.
00:30:34 <CakeProphet> Oh hey I can Google: http://domino.research.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/1e4115aea78b6e7c85256b360066f0d4/43e23ec91521c1e3852577bc0048ea37!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,lime,language,manual
00:31:57 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, would it be something along these lines: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=001680
00:33:08 <elliott__> Phantom_Hoover: Stop making me want to read PS.
00:33:36 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott__, PS kills AD with the Chicago Overcoat. And then it turns out they're both PI.
00:33:41 <olsner> <CakeProphet> Oh hey I can Google <-- congratulations!
00:33:51 * Phantom_Hoover really needs some spoiler templates he didn't steal off xkcd.
00:34:18 <elliott__> Seriously though it's such a short comic I could read it in two days.
00:34:28 <elliott__> Why don't I do that rather than refreshing for Homestuck updates.
00:34:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Because it would involve enjoying yourself jegus how is it half one already.
00:35:13 <elliott__> Please stop saying jegus it is really annoying and only bad people do it all the time.
00:35:23 <elliott__> And the answer is because you have a sleep schedule about a tenth as insane as mine now.
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00:36:04 <elliott__> OK that's only a thousandth as insane come on that's downright pedestrian.
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00:50:12 <pikhq> elliott__: When did you wake up?
00:52:12 <oerjan> i thought we had established that elliott was... wait, what was it again
00:53:06 <oerjan> but i'm pretty sure that wasn't it
00:55:54 <elliott__> 15:13:21: <Phantom_Hoover> <oklopol> where is elliott :\
00:55:54 <elliott__> 15:13:23: <Phantom_Hoover> Werewolves.
00:56:07 <elliott__> 18:33:29: <zzo38> Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself
00:56:14 <elliott__> `addquote <zzo38> Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself
00:56:17 <HackEgo> 435) <zzo38> Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself
00:56:54 <elliott__> 20:27:34: <coppro> we also talk about other esoterica
00:56:54 <elliott__> 20:27:50: <coppro> so if you're just a curious type, you might want to hang around to learn
00:56:58 <elliott__> 20:27:56: <ais523> coppro: no we don't
00:58:54 <elliott__> 20:30:34: <coppro> elliott's not around, right?
00:58:54 <elliott__> 20:30:48: <ais523> coppro: I don't think so
00:58:54 <elliott__> 20:31:01: <coppro> ais523: excellent
00:58:54 <elliott__> 20:31:05: <coppro> we're safe from him then
00:59:54 <elliott__> ais523: gah, you're right wrt cheater
01:00:15 <elliott__> 20:36:13: <norman256394> something like the interface of the future
01:00:17 <elliott__> 20:36:22: <norman256394> highly interactive
01:00:17 <elliott__> 20:36:28: <norman256394> smooth transitions
01:00:35 <elliott__> 20:38:17: <Phantom_Hoover> You should probably talk to elliott about that so he can tell you why your ideas are bad and you should feel bad.
01:00:44 <elliott__> im here for norman if he wants a yelling at
01:01:38 <elliott__> 20:41:53: <norman256394> there should be a tag in here to mark sentences that are meant to be taken as humourous/sarcastic
01:01:43 <elliott__> what is it with people proposing this, it defeats the point of sarcasm entirely
01:01:43 <elliott__> which is to make people who are stupid feel bad
01:01:47 <coppro> elliott__: I have empirically determined your weakness?
01:02:01 <ais523> elliott__: the proposed actual tag was funny
01:02:20 <elliott__> ais523: Yes, but it was cheater, so I'm legally obligated to refuse to comment on this one-off fluke.
01:02:26 <elliott__> coppro: Yes, it is ending statements with a question mark?
01:02:46 <coppro> elliott__: What you do you think !
01:02:59 <ais523> coppro: gah, shades of Enigma
01:03:04 <ais523> engima has different floors !
01:03:10 <ais523> *enigma has different floors !
01:03:24 <elliott__> im glad you included the entire sentence there
01:03:32 <elliott__> or id have tohught you meant "engima enigma different floors"
01:03:51 <ais523> elliott__: it loses its effect if not spelt out
01:03:58 <ais523> the typo was ruining it
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01:16:35 <elliott__> Oh god is he reading Problem Sleuth.
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03:09:53 <Sgeo_> Should I read Problem Sleuth?
03:15:38 <zzo38> Some pokemon tournaments will permit cheating before the tournament starts, as long as the data is of the kind that can also be legitimately obtained in the game, and that you do not cheat during the game.
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03:16:44 <zzo38> My quotation "Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself" is reading out of context, is more strange, since its meaning from that context is now not there; but you told me before you like to post quotations out of context, so it is OK.
03:21:20 <Sgeo_> zzo38, the context is someone who wants to get better at everything than everyone else, by killing people who are better at him at anything
03:21:36 <Sgeo_> He pointed out that he'd have to kill all Chinese people
03:21:44 <Sgeo_> And almost everyone else for that matter
03:22:18 <zzo38> Yes, that is why I typed that message
03:24:32 <pikhq> Oh, he wouldn't have to kill all Chinese people.
03:24:44 <pikhq> Just all people who speak the Chinese language he wants superiority at.
03:24:53 <pikhq> *Much* easier problem.
03:26:05 <zzo38> Then in that case, learn to be Chinese and then don't kill yourself.
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04:14:15 <elliott__> <CakeProphet> Sgeo_: I'm finding it entertaining
04:14:30 <elliott__> CakeProphet: wait 'til you get to homestuck :D
04:18:48 * Sgeo_ headaches at the dumbwaiter
04:19:13 <Sgeo_> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=000404
04:25:46 <elliott__> Sgeo_: oh btw HAMSTEAK UPDATE i love this reversal of the balance of power mwahahaha endless bugging power
04:25:59 <Sgeo_> Knew about it for a while
04:26:59 <elliott__> yeah but so did i every time you said it so everything is going according to plan :D
04:31:28 <pikhq> Y'know what'd be very, very nice?
04:31:36 <pikhq> Replay Gain on video.
04:31:42 <pikhq> Y U NO DO IT, MPLAYER?
04:32:08 <pikhq> Second time I've used it, okay?
04:32:28 <elliott__> everyone just using it a few times
04:33:16 <Sgeo_> elliott__, Y U NO LIKE Y U NO?
04:33:41 <elliott__> Sgeo_: im going to rip your fucking heart out
04:35:20 <coppro> Sgeo_: Y U NO HAVE HEART?
04:40:02 <Sgeo_> coppro, Y U NO HAVE BLOOD?
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04:44:01 <pikhq> elliott__: Guess what's being developed by a suckless dev?
04:44:15 <pikhq> http://hg.suckless.org/sbase/file/a9db33a9bfea
04:45:48 <elliott__> my interest in coreutils is rapidly diminishing
04:45:53 <elliott__> do they have anything actually non-trivial
04:46:01 <elliott__> nope, doing all the simples tuff first
04:46:12 <elliott__> i can guarantee this will never be a viable full coreutils replacement
04:46:21 <pikhq> Yeaaah, he started 2 days ago.
04:47:04 <pikhq> Is there anything non-trivial in coreutils?
04:47:56 <elliott__> because the latter is not really non-glibc-portable and the like
04:47:59 <elliott__> and it's what really needs replacing
04:48:14 * pikhq hasn't looked at util-linux's src
04:48:48 <elliott__> pikhq: they use some gnu shit like get_program_name() or something
04:48:55 <elliott__> that adds overhead to every single program if its included in the libc
04:49:41 <coppro> pikhq: obious bug in tee
04:50:31 <coppro> it will accept "-e\xff" as a valid flag
04:50:35 <elliott__> good to know the suckless ultra-minimalist spirit is still alive
04:51:21 <elliott__> http://hg.suckless.org/sbase/file/a9db33a9bfea/cat.c
04:51:29 <elliott__> the one program that's utterly trivial to write with read/write
04:51:40 <elliott__> and that actually suffers for stdio overhead because it's such a tiny program
04:52:12 <coppro> elliott__: he uses getopt into a char
04:53:31 <coppro> clearly these things should just be written in assembly
04:53:34 <coppro> also screw backwards compatibility
04:53:40 <coppro> let's have a C compiler with sane flags
04:53:54 <elliott__> writes its own ELF headers and everything
04:53:59 <elliott__> totally syscalls, no libc dependencies
04:54:01 <elliott__> http://asm.sourceforge.net/asmutils.html
04:54:13 <elliott__> coppro: here's another idea: let's not use C
04:55:17 <coppro> elliott__: provide me with an alternative and I'm behind you all the way
04:55:19 <zzo38> I think you should write a version in C and a version in assembly language. Use the program that is assembly language when it is compatible with the computer.
04:55:40 <elliott__> for coreutils... any language at all is sufficient, jesus
04:55:46 <elliott__> these are utterly trivial programs for the mostpart
04:55:46 <coppro> elliott__: a minimum portable language
04:56:02 <elliott__> coppro: there is no way C is minimum. that is a laughable claim.
04:56:37 <coppro> elliott__: I didn't claim it was
04:57:09 <elliott__> "gimme an alternate to c" "criteria?" "a dynamically-typed interpreted scripting language"
04:57:26 <coppro> it is quite minimal on a relative scale, while having asufficient abstraction to be portable
04:57:48 <elliott__> C has tons and tons and tons of semantics
04:58:09 <elliott__> i refuse to even argue that, there is no way C is minimal as far as portable languages go:)
04:58:22 <elliott__> (I might argue its portability too, but I'm way too lazy to right now)
04:58:49 <elliott__> like, ANS Forth is if anything /more/ portable than C, and it certainly has much less semantic baggage
04:58:56 <elliott__> (no, I don't think ANS Forth is a good replacement for C)
04:59:47 <elliott__> "Michael J. Fox Appearing in Back to the Future" ;; Telltale, this is a very dishonest title to put in my inbox >:|
05:00:47 <pikhq> elliott__: So far, I very nearly have a functioning util-linux with musl.
05:01:05 <pikhq> 2 patches thus far, simply pulling in the right includes.
05:01:15 <pikhq> (it seems to have relied on overinclusion in the headers)
05:02:14 <zzo38> Probably C is made to need a lot of things because many different computers have a lot of things, such as the different kind of data types, and different optimization, and so on.
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05:05:16 <pikhq> *3* lines of patching.
05:05:26 <zzo38> But still, isn't quite perfect
05:06:29 <coppro> elliott__: minimal in terms of abstraction, not simplicity
05:08:41 <pikhq> Aaand a single GNU-ism.
05:08:49 <pikhq> So far, versionsort().
05:11:30 <Sgeo> I'm now sufficiently scared of my power cord that I'm not going to charge my computer until I have a new one
05:11:39 <pikhq> And now, a different fail.
05:11:57 <Sgeo> Seriously, it's sparking and making sounsd
05:11:58 <pikhq> Their mount relies on no-longer-extant defines in the Linux headers.
05:14:10 <zzo38> Then, make a new one that is minimal in abstraction and simplicity and compile to native codes but can do the different kind of optimizations and other features that can be specific to the computers and whatever else. I think someone invented C-- for a similar purpose to this?
05:14:23 <pikhq> ... Waaait, that's libmount which isn't even needed at all.
05:15:11 <pikhq> --disable-libmount
05:18:38 <pikhq> And now, something that confuses me.
05:18:48 <pikhq> I have no idea where that should be found.
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05:19:55 <pikhq> Musl seems to not define it.
05:21:53 <pikhq> Oh, no wonder, NGROUPS is not POSIX.
05:33:14 <zzo38> There is also Pascal, although many things Pascal is missing (such as default cases, which some Pascal systems provide; hexadecimal/octal numbers, which WEB provides; preprocessor macros, which WEB provides (also usable to make conditional compilation)), including many things that is just not Pascal such as using pointers like C and bitwise operations and stuff! Is many thing wrong!
05:33:33 <zzo38> However, it does have a few good features such as ability to specify number size datatype by range, which C doesn't do.
05:34:35 <zzo38> And apparently the syntax in Pascal for forward declarations of procedures that have parameters, is really horrible (although I don't know how it works, is just what Knuth wrote that it is really horrible).
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05:37:42 <pikhq> GAAAH, stuff uses error in here.
05:38:15 <pikhq> By far the most devious GNUism.
05:42:01 <pikhq> Okay, not going to work on it any more, but it would not be that hard to port util-linux to be vaguely portable.
05:48:39 <CakeProphet> To quote Stanford algorithms expert Donald Knuth, "Who are you? How did you get in my house?"
05:53:06 <CakeProphet> I'm actually not sure why most languages index arrays starting at zero. It makes sense, but I have no way of explaining why..
05:53:58 <pikhq> It makes some array arithmetic easier...
05:54:10 <pikhq> It also makes a fuckton of sense with C's semantics.
05:54:18 <pikhq> Remember, a[b] == *(a+b)
06:02:29 <CakeProphet> it would be interesting if computation power had increased faster (relative to need) than memory size. So essentially we were more concerned with optimizing memory over computation time.
06:03:15 <pikhq> Well, actually, it's memory bandwidth that's stifling.
06:03:59 <CakeProphet> relative to need though? it seems that optimizing speed over memory use has been preferred in most cases.
06:04:29 <pikhq> The best way to optimise for speed these days *is* to optimise for memory use.
06:04:38 <zzo38> I like index arrays starting at zero it makes sense not only for pointer arithmetic but in a few others ways, sometimes even mathematical sensibility.
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06:07:21 <pikhq> L1 cache is a few kilobytes. An L1 cache miss costs about a dozen clock cycles. L2 cache is *maybe* a few megs. An L2 cache miss will cost you a few hundred clock cycles.
06:08:53 <pikhq> Oh, yeah, and it costs a couple of clock cycles to fetch *from* L1.
06:11:15 <pikhq> Oh, yeah, and a single fetch from disk could well cost you thousands of clock cycles.
06:11:27 <pikhq> Space optimisation *is* speed optimisation these days.
06:12:05 <pikhq> In case you can't tell, most people haven't caught on yet.
06:12:10 <coppro> optimizing memory location is important
06:12:21 <coppro> small is useless if it's scattered
06:12:24 <pikhq> Oh, yes, absolutely.
06:12:32 <coppro> also disks may have caches
06:12:43 <pikhq> Locality lets your reads actually come from cache most of the time.
06:13:00 <CakeProphet> ah, so my prototype linked list filesystem is a no-go?
06:13:03 <pikhq> Which can save your ass if you're dealing with an inherently large working set.
06:13:11 <coppro> CakeProphet: not necessarily
06:13:22 <CakeProphet> coppro: oh, well it doesn't exist anyways. :P
06:13:28 <pikhq> CakeProphet: So... FAT?
06:14:30 <CakeProphet> I was thinking more along the lines of individual bytes. you know, to simplify everything. :D
06:14:53 <pikhq> Uh, that wouldn't work well on any storage device.
06:14:58 <coppro> CakeProphet: It depends on the nature of the disk
06:15:06 <pikhq> Except maybe a large, large array of magnetic core.
06:15:13 <coppro> SSDs are pretty much random access
06:15:58 <pikhq> coppro: Not *quite*. A large request is more efficient than a small one, because of DMA.
06:16:07 <pikhq> Well, more efficient than many small ones.
06:16:32 <CakeProphet> My persistent storage is an abacus. What do you recommend?
06:16:45 <coppro> pikhq: not familiar with it, but if it's just a size thing, then the effects it has on locality are incidental
06:17:55 <pikhq> coppro: Basically, the CPU sends a request to the device and then gets told when the request is done...
06:18:35 <pikhq> Combined with the limited number of requests that can be in flight and once, it's much more efficient to simply tell the SSD to do a handful of giant requests and wait around, do something else, then to keep feeding it a giant list of small requests.
06:19:28 <pikhq> The maximum queue depth on a SATA drive is, uh, 31, I think.
06:19:43 <coppro> I don't know the mechanics of hard drives well enough to be sure, but I imagine seeks on those are quite inexpensive too, although you are still far better off reading linearly
06:19:57 <pikhq> Seeks on SSDs are effectively instantaneous.
06:20:42 <pikhq> It's just the pesky bit about copying from SSD to RAM that makes linear reads better.
06:21:31 <coppro> I imagine you could design a magnetic disk where the maximum cost of a seek is one rotation
06:21:39 <coppro> no clue if that's how modern drives work
06:21:57 <coppro> ... goddamn it why do we stlil program in assembly
06:22:03 <CakeProphet> abacii are very durable, and can hold persistent data for centuries with minimal effort if kept in a dry environment!
06:22:23 <coppro> CakeProphet: also one free of earthquakes
06:22:33 <pikhq> coppro: Pretty sure it's pretty close to that even now.
06:23:20 <coppro> think about that for a second
06:23:21 * oklopol opens a beer after a long day at work
06:23:26 <coppro> elector-/magnetic/ pulse
06:23:38 <coppro> y'know, with the how do they work and stuff
06:23:49 <pikhq> The issue is that 10 millisecond seeks are ungodly slow when a millisecond is a thousand clock cycles.
06:24:09 <pikhq> Hard drives are actually harder to wipe with magnetism than you'd think.
06:24:27 <coppro> modern hard drives don't take 10 milliseconds for a rotation
06:24:45 <coppro> <-- order of magnitude issues
06:25:36 <oklopol> also my psychic told me i'll soon get out of the jobless situation i'm in at the moment, and that i will soon finish a project i've been working on for a long time
06:25:52 <oklopol> i suppose research isn't work :\
06:26:24 <pikhq> They have neodymium magnets *in them*, usually...
06:26:34 <pikhq> Decent sized ones, too.
06:27:07 <coppro> Now, they're often also shielded
06:27:16 <CakeProphet> yeah I've played around with those. They're ridiculously strong.
06:27:35 <coppro> so if the shield is intact, doing any magnetic damage is difficult
06:27:43 <coppro> and a pulse will just be summarily ignored
06:27:50 <oklopol> yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm considering getting a live one since stuff like "hello $name, your first name $first_name has |$first_name| letters, so by using numerology we can tell ..." is getting kind of boring
06:28:03 <pikhq> Probably do a number on the drive controller, making it effectively unreadable, though.
06:28:27 <pikhq> oklopol: ... Srsly?
06:28:28 <coppro> also if it was running at the time you might end up with the write head getting charged and causing some write-age
06:28:35 <oklopol> pikhq: srsly in what sense?
06:28:41 <coppro> `quote add < oklopol> yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm considering getting a live one since stuff like "hello $name, your first name $first_name has |$first_name| letters, so by using numerology we can tell ..." is getting kind of boring
06:28:45 <pikhq> oklopol: Do you seriously use the services of a psychic?
06:29:09 <coppro> pikhq: I don't know which is worse. The possibility of him using a psychic or the fact that he thought it a good idea to tell us
06:29:09 <oklopol> it is a fact that i "use the services" of a psychic
06:29:19 <pikhq> "Do you *actually* use one?"
06:29:52 <coppro> Do you use your psychic for psychic services exclusively, and not any other services that may be incidental to the psychich-ness?
06:30:01 <oklopol> well define "use", it is a fact that i receive a monthly cold reading
06:30:09 <oklopol> and that i read it carefully
06:30:19 <pikhq> Okay, my question is answered.
06:30:25 <pikhq> Now, for more questions.
06:30:39 <CakeProphet> I /am/ psychic, so I don't even bother getting someone else to do it.
06:31:27 <oklopol> how should i know, curious i guess?
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06:32:44 <pikhq> Do you have any concern for their predictions being any more than a parlor trick?
06:33:12 <pikhq> (that is, do you care whether or not it's actually even slightly legit?)
06:33:21 <pikhq> Okay, then you're just kinda weird. :P
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06:33:38 <oklopol> well i'm sure it's not even slightly legit
06:33:47 <pikhq> Then you're just kinda weird.
06:33:49 <oklopol> i'm interested in whether this is obvious to me from actually reading them
06:34:20 <oklopol> and it is so dead obvious that i'm wondering if this is a particularly crappy psychic
06:34:27 <pikhq> But thank goodness you're not also exhibiting an entirely irrational belief.
06:35:18 <pikhq> CakeProphet: How irrational of you. :P
06:35:25 <oklopol> as i said, the only concrete facts in the last prediction were that i'd get out of my current jobless situation
06:35:36 <oklopol> and i've been employed for what a year
06:36:38 <oklopol> the others i cannot really verify yet but apparently i'm going to meet some 40yo guy through common friends, and who will change my life in some way, there are so many ways why i don't see this happening
06:37:30 <oklopol> although, if a 40yo friend of a friend asks me to marry them anytime soon i'll probably have to say yes, and start believing.
06:37:53 <pikhq> Hmm. Oerjan's ~40, you met him through #esoteric, and he has probably changed your life in *some* way.
06:37:58 <pikhq> Clearly, this person is reading your past.
06:38:14 <oklopol> erm, actually with great luck, i'll be meeting oerjan soon
06:38:28 <oklopol> i wonder if he'll ask me to marry him
06:39:16 <CakeProphet> oklopol: it's more likely that this 40 year old will slip you a psychedelic drug without your knowledge, I'd say.
06:39:32 <oklopol> that would certainly change things
06:39:52 <pikhq> And then you'll find out you're one of the 1% of Europeans immune to AIDS.
06:40:30 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure i am, at least i have some evidence that i'm immune to chlamydia
06:40:39 <oklopol> and i don't even know if that's possible.
06:43:31 <oklopol> come on... they're not even trying, "I should thank you for the initiative you took just 917 days ago that when you asked me to determine what was going to happen in your astral configuration ..."
06:43:52 <pikhq> ... What the *hell*, chlamydia...
06:44:22 <pikhq> I, uh, think it might count as a eukaryote.
06:44:44 <oklopol> so does it even make sense to be immune to it
06:44:58 <oklopol> or would that be like being immune to dogs
06:45:11 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure i'm immune to dogs btw.
06:45:47 <pikhq> It's a fucking bizarre "bacterium".
06:45:59 <CakeProphet> oklopol: it's very possible to have chlamydia with no symptoms.
06:46:34 <oklopol> CakeProphet: i'm aware of this
06:47:38 <pikhq> At varying points, it looks vaguely like a virus/eukaryote and vaguely like a bacterium.
06:48:03 <pikhq> Erm, sorry, misread.
06:48:31 <pikhq> It's still motherfucking weird.
06:50:00 <oklopol> hmm, apparently the gods of nature refuse to tell jenna my credit card number
06:51:14 <oklopol> argh, i'm sleepy as hell and still like 8 hours of being awake to go
06:58:25 <CakeProphet> !addinterp dechatspeak perl while(<>){lc;s/\by\b/why/g;s/\bu\b/you/g;s/\br\b/are/g;s/\bb4\b/before/g;s/\bty\b/thank you/g;s/\bsry\b/sorry/g;s/\bur\b/your/g;s/\bb\b/be/g;s/\bbc\b/because/g;s/\blol\b/haha/g;s/\blmao\b/hahaha/g;s/\brofl\b/hahahaha/g;s/\bbrb\b/be right back/g;s/\bafk\b/away from keyboard/g;s/\b4\b/for/g;s/\b1\b/one/g;s/\bne1\b/anyone/g;s/\bno1\b/no-one/g;s/\b(some|sum)1\b/someone/g;s/\bttyl\b/talk to you lat
06:58:26 <EgoBot> Interpreter dechatspeak installed.
06:58:57 <CakeProphet> actually "ur" could be either "your" or "you're"
07:03:33 <CakeProphet> !addinterp dechatspeak perl while(<>){lc;s/\by\b/why/g;s/\bu\b/you/g;s/\br\b/are/g;s/\bb4\b/before/g;s/\bty\b/thank you/g;s/\bsry\b/sorry/g;s/\bur\b/your/g;s/\bb\b/be/g;s/\bbc\b/because/g;s/\blol\b/haha/g;s/\blmao\b/hahaha/g;s/\brofl\b/hahahaha/g;s/\bbrb\b/be right back/g;s/\bafk\b/away from keyboard/g;s/\b4\b/for/g;s/\b1\b/one/g;s/\bne1\b/anyone/g;s/\bno1\b/no-one/g;s/\b(some|sum)1\b/someone/g;s/\bttyl\b/talk to you lat
07:03:33 <EgoBot> There is already an interpreter for dechatspeak!
07:03:40 <EgoBot> That interpreter doesn't exist!
07:03:45 <EgoBot> Interpreter dechatspeak deleted.
07:03:48 <CakeProphet> !addinterp dechatspeak perl while(<>){lc;s/\by\b/why/g;s/\bu\b/you/g;s/\br\b/are/g;s/\bb4\b/before/g;s/\bty\b/thank you/g;s/\bsry\b/sorry/g;s/\bur\b/your/g;s/\bb\b/be/g;s/\bbc\b/because/g;s/\blol\b/haha/g;s/\blmao\b/hahaha/g;s/\brofl\b/hahahaha/g;s/\bbrb\b/be right back/g;s/\bafk\b/away from keyboard/g;s/\b4\b/for/g;s/\b1\b/one/g;s/\bne1\b/anyone/g;s/\bno1\b/no-one/g;s/\b(some|sum)1\b/someone/g;s/\bttyl\b/talk to you lat
07:03:48 <EgoBot> Interpreter dechatspeak installed.
07:04:30 <EgoBot> Substitution replacement not terminated at /tmp/input.29075 line 1.
07:12:43 <EgoBot> Interpreter dechatspeak deleted.
07:12:48 <CakeProphet> while(<>){lc;s/\by\b/why/g;s/\bu\b/you/g;s/\br\b/are/g;s/\bb4\b/before/g;s/\bty\b/thank you/g;s/\bsry\b/sorry/g;s/\bur\b/your/g;s/\bb\b/be/g;s/\bbc\b/because/g;s/\blol\b/haha/g;s/\blmao\b/hahaha/g;s/\brofl\b/hahahaha/g;s/\bbrb\b/be right back/g;s/\bafk\b/away from keyboard/g;s/\b4\b/for/g;s/\b1\b/one/g;s/\bne1\b/anyone/g;s/\bno1\b/no-one/g;s/\b(some|sum)1\b/someone/g;s/\bttyl\b/talk to you later/g;s{\bw/e\b}{whatever}g;s
07:13:11 <CakeProphet> !addinterp dechatspeak perl while(<>){lc;s/\by\b/why/g;s/\bu\b/you/g;s/\br\b/are/g;s/\bb4\b/before/g;s/\bty\b/thank you/g;s/\bsry\b/sorry/g;s/\bur\b/your/g;s/\bb\b/be/g;s/\bbc\b/because/g;s/\blol\b/haha/g;s/\blmao\b/hahaha/g;s/\brofl\b/hahahaha/g;s/\bbrb\b/be right back/g;s/\bafk\b/away from keyboard/g;s/\b4\b/for/g;s/\b1\b/one/g;s/\bne1\b/anyone/g;s/\bno1\b/no-one/g;s/\b(some|sum)1\b/someone/g;s/\bttyl\b/talk to you lat
07:13:11 <EgoBot> Interpreter dechatspeak installed.
07:13:55 <CakeProphet> !dechatspeak l8er, though for some reason people actually spell it l8ter
07:13:55 <EgoBot> Substitution replacement not terminated at /tmp/input.29791 line 1.
07:16:36 <CakeProphet> yeah I'm stumped now. I moved it over to emacs and it highlight correctly.
07:19:41 <CakeProphet> Looks like we have no defense against all of those chatspeaking heathens that frequent our beloved channel.
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08:59:01 <CakeProphet> Perl's flip-flop operator is pretty cool, but I haven't seen a use for it yet.
09:02:09 <Patashu> http://perl-tricks.blogspot.com/2007/01/flip-flop-operator.html hahahaha it's literally like a circuitry SR flipflop
09:10:22 <CakeProphet> that actually does look somewhat useful for parsing large sections of something.
09:10:43 <CakeProphet> not necessarily large, but something that can be broken up into sub-parses
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09:23:05 <CakeProphet> there's even another variation of what .. does.
09:23:10 <CakeProphet> Patashu: If either operand of scalar ".." is a constant expression, that operand is considered true if it is equal (== ) to the current input line number (the $. variable).
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09:44:50 <CakeProphet> One of my favorite operators so far has been //. a // b is equivalent to defined(a) ? a : b
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10:02:14 <Lymia> Let's make an esolang where the most useful operator is a:b::c:d
10:02:17 <Lymia> Question is what it would do.
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10:06:33 <olsner> looks like the is to as is to operator (i.e. "a is to b as c is to d")
10:06:50 <Lymia> Now what kind of a programming language could you build around it?
10:07:12 <Lymia> That would still be Turing complete that is.
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11:47:42 <oerjan> <CakeProphet> yeah I'm stumped now. I moved it over to emacs and it highlight correctly.
11:54:58 <Sgeo> Why am I reading Problem Sleuth while eating?
11:55:23 <oerjan> so you can sleuth and slobber
11:59:22 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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12:18:02 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.scribd.com/doc/24048466/Converting-of-Matter-to-Energy-by-AB-Generator
12:18:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Stealing my ideas from the future and passing them of as their own before I even have them.
12:20:50 <Phantom_Hoover> It essentially works by balancing the energy/mass loss from Hawking radiation by pumping in more mass, which effectively performs perfect matter-to-energy conversion.
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12:25:24 <Phantom_Hoover> It could power a Kardashev-1 civilisation with a man shovelling coal.
12:26:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, FSVO 'shovelling coal' equal to 'firing it into the hole against the maelstrom of gamma rays coming out of it'.
12:27:31 <oerjan> every piece of coal would get turned into energy equivalent to a nuclear bomb...
12:27:32 <Phantom_Hoover> And you still need either 10^8 or 10^16 (stupid ambiguous past me) of mass, and you need to make it into a black hole, which is the really hard part.
12:27:53 <oerjan> you'd not want to stand close to that
12:29:02 <oerjan> and if your feeding apparatus failed, you'd have an even greater explosion on your hands...
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12:31:45 <Phantom_Hoover> I Mathematicad all the calculations a while ago; I'll see if I can find them.
12:37:22 <Phantom_Hoover> So yeah, the world's power output can be met with a 10^11 kg black hole with 1.8*10^-7 kg/s of matter.
12:39:05 <Phantom_Hoover> O.o the power output of a GRB is only a 20,000th of that of every star in the observable universe.
12:44:40 <Sgeo> What's the chance of a GRB directly hitting Earth?
12:45:53 <Phantom_Hoover> They hit us all the time, that's why they're so amazing.
12:46:05 <Phantom_Hoover> They're literally from the other side of the universe.
12:46:23 <Sgeo> Hmm. I guess it's nearby GRBs that would be problematic?
12:47:36 <Sgeo> gamma Ray Burst
12:47:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, if by 'problematic' you mean 'what's that in the AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH'.
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12:54:00 <Phantom_Hoover> (There's a very cool book about various spacey things that can kill you called "Death from the Skies" by Phil Plait; you should read it.)
12:54:32 <Sgeo> Blah paying money
12:54:37 <olsner> OGL-accelrointu kahvinkeitin
12:54:47 <Sgeo> I think I'd rather read a math book or a quantum physics book
12:55:18 <Vorpal> <olsner> OGL-accelrointu kahvinkeitin <-- Finnish?
12:55:27 <olsner> Vorpal: looks like it!
12:57:33 <Vorpal> olsner, and where is it from?
12:57:47 <oerjan> `addquote <Sgeo> Hmm. I guess it's nearby GRBs that would be problematic? <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, if by 'problematic' you mean 'what's that in the AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH'.
12:57:47 <Vorpal> "open gl acceleration <something>" I guess
12:57:47 <olsner> Vorpal: from warpdrive
12:57:50 <HackEgo> 436) <Sgeo> Hmm. I guess it's nearby GRBs that would be problematic? <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, if by 'problematic' you mean 'what's that in the AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH'.
12:57:54 <Vorpal> olsner, not familiar with that
12:58:04 <Vorpal> olsner, unless you mean the star trek thingy
12:58:53 <Vorpal> olsner, oh is it like bash.org=
12:59:19 <olsner> Vorpal: yes, quite similar
13:06:57 <oerjan> using the grinding and processing unit
13:10:48 <oerjan> teapots are space age technology, so 60s...
13:11:53 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0002442v1 <-- very interesting
13:28:10 <Sgeo> Wooo GBracha post
13:29:51 <cheater_> also, figures 3 and 4 look amazingly much like His Noodliness
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14:01:24 <Phantom_Hoover> OK the list at the bottom of that page is both silly and very interesting.
14:04:08 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(numbers)
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14:09:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Suggest you consult oklopol on matters of graph theory.
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15:37:02 <Sgeo> I think I broke my brain
15:37:19 <Sgeo> Regular functions get an argument representing the continuation, but continuations don't?
15:54:12 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm pretty sure that's how it works. By which I mean very sure.
15:56:29 <oklopol> "<cheater_> figure BELOW footnote? wtf?" <<< this is the standard in lecture notes in computer science
15:57:46 <Cheery> does languages designed to compose audio&music count into esoteric?
15:59:14 <Phantom_Hoover> If it's just Python with music-manipulation primitives, then no.
15:59:42 <Cheery> are difference equations esoteric? I've seen couple of those in digital audio stuff
16:00:07 <Cheery> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_biquad_filter
16:00:42 <oklopol> if everyone was like me, channels specializing in X would be the last place you'd wanna ask about X because once i've heard the question more than 50 times it doesn't even occur to me to answer it seriously
16:00:53 <Cheery> Phantom_Hoover: do not confuse.
16:01:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, right, it's another name for a recurrence relation.
16:01:42 <oklopol> whatever-ihope's-current-name-is once talked about an idea of his for a DE based lang
16:02:17 <oklopol> but i guess it was just "hey what about a lang based on DE" and an example
16:02:59 <oklopol> i didn't confuse, i just only read Phantom_Hoover's comment and worked based on that
16:03:08 <oklopol> what the fuck are difference equations
16:04:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Which may, on further reflection, have been called Gravity.
16:05:23 <oklopol> i didn't know about the three-body problem when i read about gravity but umm so i guess gravity doesn't have an interp then
16:05:45 <Cheery> maybe I get those direct form equation sort of things.
16:07:27 <oklopol> "<Phantom_Hoover> Oh, right, it's another name for a recurrence relation." <<< why do i not read what other people say :D
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16:10:48 <Cheery> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/401151 <- biquad filter in python
16:11:10 <Cheery> and I'll get whatever highpass/midpass whateverpass stuff from the cookbook for that :)
16:11:33 <oklopol> that program SHOULD be sorry.
16:11:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, incidentally: to mix two sine waves, do you just add them or are you meant to maths them together?
16:12:06 <Cheery> this filter is one major useful thing for subtractive synthetis.
16:12:51 <oklopol> what is subtractive synthesis?
16:13:36 <oklopol> does highpass do a FT, remove some low stuff and unFT?
16:13:38 <Cheery> that's creation of timbre by taking something complex and remove harmonics from it.
16:13:52 <oklopol> (or whichever way is a reverse transform and which non-reverse)
16:14:12 <Cheery> biquad filter is one of generic filters that lets you do resontant high-pass/low-pass/band-pass filters.
16:15:08 <oklopol> timbre is obtained by *removing* harmonics? i thought timbre was the harmonics :\
16:15:34 <oklopol> what does "resonant" mean?
16:16:11 <Cheery> human mouth behaves like an adjustable filter according to the wikipedia article.
16:16:40 <oklopol> well of course it does but does it work as a high-pass/low-pass/band-pass filter?
16:16:48 <Cheery> shape it takes affects cutoff frequencies of the air passing through.
16:16:49 <oklopol> maybe that's what you meant
16:17:18 <oklopol> yeah i think fizzie has mentioned some of this stuff some time
16:22:17 <Cheery> now it's one of the few things I know how to create. :)
16:23:14 <Cheery> my synth tools: multi-pass filtering, bunch of primitive waveform samples, controlling the parameters of these things with slower samples.
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17:16:54 <Phantom_Hoover> OK I think I'm immune to Reddit's comment-sorting algorithm or something.
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17:23:33 <pikhq_> Mmkay, so the 2 largest problems with building anything on musl: People suck and rely on overincludes, and gnulib is the most unportable piece of shit known to man.
17:24:58 <pikhq_> Some headers in common libcs include more headers than is strictly necessary.
17:25:09 <pikhq_> Some programs rely on this.
17:26:02 <pikhq_> Still, it's an issue for building with musl, as musl has fairly minimal includes.
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18:35:37 <cheater_> first lol-powered amp: http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/04/first-solar-powered-laptop/
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19:23:48 <oerjan> <Sgeo> Regular functions get an argument representing the continuation, but continuations don't?
19:24:32 <oerjan> ...why the heck are people gone when i get to logread them
19:26:33 <oerjan> although unless the continuation is "exit program" it will necessarily contain another continuation inside it to transfer control to. um, i guess it could also loop.
19:27:23 <oerjan> (btw i realized in unlambda that it is possible to use the e exit-program function to construct a function equivalent to any other continuation)
19:27:27 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_inheritance_jurisprudence#The_role_of_Islamic_inheritance_in_the_development_of_Islamic_Mathematics
19:27:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Algebra: the result of stupidly-written Qur'an verses.
19:28:17 <oerjan> (e is essentially the top continuation reified)
19:29:56 <oerjan> seems i mentioned it in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Unlambda#Meta-notation
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19:32:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Hello Demetrius unless you are a neopagan in which case please stay so we can laugh at you otherwise welcome.
19:33:31 <Demetrius> Phantom_Hoover, hello :P But I’m just a passer-by, I don't really program in esoteric languages and I am an atheist :P
19:34:09 <oerjan> atheists do seem to be in majority among those professing their beliefs here
19:36:25 <Demetrius> i program in java and python a bit, but never did anything esoteric
19:36:36 <Demetrius> though I do find Piet very interesting
19:38:04 <Demetrius> Phantom_Hoover, I took on java because I wanted to write a game for my mobile phone... In fact, I am still working on it, but very slowly :
19:38:51 <Demetrius> I can program in most imperative languages if I have a manual at hand :D but I don't have much practice
19:39:21 <oerjan> > cycle "imperative languages suck! "
19:39:22 <lambdabot> "imperative languages suck! imperative languages suck! imperative languag...
19:39:57 <oerjan> (don't mind me, i'm just being stereotypically #esoteric)
19:40:19 <Demetrius> oerjan, maybe they do, but I'm too lazy to learn functional ones
19:40:30 <oerjan> not as lazy as haskell!
19:40:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, you're... not going to be the most popular person.
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19:41:13 <oerjan> i, on the other hand, am certainly lazier than haskell
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19:41:33 <Demetrius> I closed the channel by mistake xD
19:41:34 <oerjan> Demetrius: i was afraid you were serious
19:41:58 <oerjan> and we cannot have serious people here on this channel
19:42:09 <oerjan> ok except Vorpal and zzo38
19:42:21 <Demetrius> well, I guess serious people won't talk about esoteric languages
19:42:40 <Demetrius> oerjan, and how do you know they are serious?
19:42:52 <oerjan> Gregor _should_ be serious but isn't
19:43:04 <oerjan> well Vorpal is stereotypically serious
19:43:20 <oerjan> zzo38 is stereotypically incapable of not being serious
19:43:38 <oerjan> (you'll understand when you meet him)
19:43:48 <oerjan> well ais523 has this serious air about him
19:43:57 -!- Cheery has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
19:44:34 <Demetrius> in fact I came here because sebbu typed a message to a wrong channel and had to explain where it belonged :D
19:44:36 <oerjan> i mean he even managed to earn money on something esoteric once. if _that_ isn't missing the point...
19:45:51 <oerjan> i did not say language
19:46:48 <Demetrius> well, that doesn't sound very esoteric
19:47:14 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `?'
19:47:21 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:47:26 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
19:47:53 <oerjan> we also have other bots that are more esoteric
19:47:56 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
19:48:01 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
19:48:19 <oerjan> sadly fungot is still not with us
19:48:36 <oerjan> fizzie: Y U NO FIX FUNGOT
19:48:56 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ test.c \ tmpdir.14145
19:49:03 <oerjan> not immensely successful
19:49:27 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tmpdir.14262
19:49:37 <oerjan> i hope that wasn't something important
19:49:42 <Demetrius> hope there was nothing important there... :o
19:51:43 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> YOU LIED TO ME LAMBDABOT <-- i assume you are joking
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19:52:53 <Demetrius> `echo "Ня ведаю, навошта, але няхай сабе будзе" >тэкст
19:52:55 <HackEgo> "Ня ведаю, навошта, але няхай сабе будзе" >тэкст
19:52:57 <oerjan> Demetrius: you may understand HackEgo, while you can change a lot in it, does have protection against real malice
19:52:59 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tmpdir.14730
19:53:51 <oerjan> Demetrius: oh hm that `run thing it said above is important, without it your commands can have only one literal argument
19:53:56 <Phantom_Hoover> `run echo "Ня ведаю, навошта, але няхай сабе будзе" >тэкст
19:54:00 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tmpdir.14880
19:54:45 <Demetrius> maybe it doesn't like output redirection? or cyrillic?
19:55:05 <oerjan> it most certainly does output redirection
19:55:12 <Demetrius> `run echo "Nia viedaju, navošta heta, ale niachaj sabie budzie" >tekst
19:55:18 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ tmpdir.15087 \ тэкст
19:56:04 <oerjan> so perhaps it's the shell which has problems
19:56:08 <HackEgo> Nia viedaju, navošta heta, ale niachaj sabie budzie
19:56:22 <oerjan> well that accent got through
19:56:49 <HackEgo> Ня ведаю, навошта, але няхай сабе будзе
19:58:43 <Demetrius> the łacinka version has one word more than a cyrillic one
19:59:40 <Demetrius> `run echo "Nia viedaju, navošta, ale niachaj sabie budzie" >tekst
19:59:56 <HackEgo> Nia viedaju, navošta, ale niachaj sabie budzie
20:02:51 <oerjan> HackEgo's hg repository use sometimes makes things happen strangely, that might be why тэкст didn't show up before my touch
20:04:17 <oerjan> if commands are simultaneous it runs both simultaneously and merges the resulting repositories
20:05:02 <oerjan> sometimes the process even fails messily
20:06:19 <Demetrius> in fact, I never really worked with mercurial
20:07:38 -!- atrapado has joined.
20:08:26 <oerjan> me neither, HackEgo and EgoBot are Gregor's bots
20:10:46 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
20:11:03 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc dechatspeak decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd funetak google graph gregor gregor__1 he hello id jethro kraut map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python recursion recursion2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacr
20:11:21 <oerjan> that's the bot's esoteric parts
20:11:53 <oerjan> well + a lot of silly stuff
20:12:19 <oerjan> it would appear there are no so many userinterps they don't all fit
20:14:14 <EgoBot> Interpreter recursion deleted.
20:14:19 <EgoBot> Interpreter recursion2 deleted.
20:14:26 <oerjan> they won't really work anyhow
20:14:46 <EgoBot> c char buf[1024]; int i; fgets(buf, 1024, stdin); for (i=0;buf[i];i++)buf[i]=(buf[i]=='\n')?'\0':buf[i]; if (!strcmp(buf, "h")) printf("Hello World\n"); else printf("Unknown command (%s) encountered\n", buf);
20:15:21 <EgoBot> perl for(<>){s/\b.+?\b/map/g;print}
20:15:34 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc dechatspeak decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd funetak google graph gregor gregor__1 he hello id jethro kraut map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacro simplename slashes
20:15:59 <EgoBot> haskell import System.Random; main = (randomRIO (0,1) :: IO Int) >>= print
20:16:54 <EgoBot> Interpreter he deleted.
20:18:07 <EgoBot> haskell main = do a <- getLine ; putStrLn (a ++ reverse a)
20:18:53 <EgoBot> Interpreter cockney deleted.
20:19:06 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:19:19 <oerjan> !delinterp sffffffffedeesh
20:19:20 <EgoBot> Interpreter sffffffffedeesh deleted.
20:19:24 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc dechatspeak decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd funetak google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ucat valsp
20:20:33 <EgoBot> unlambda ```s`d`@|i`ci
20:20:39 <EgoBot> Interpreter ucat deleted.
20:20:58 <EgoBot> haskell main = interact (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines $ map (("<ehird> " ++) . unwords . words) $ food $ map toLower)
20:21:24 <EgoBot> Interpreter funetak deleted.
20:21:43 <EgoBot> underload (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?)S
20:21:59 <EgoBot> bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++>+++++>++++++<<<<-]>.-.>+++.<+++.+++++++++++++++++.--------.>-.------------.>>.<+++.>-.<-.<+.-----------------------.
20:22:12 <EgoBot> sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@<pl(2?=#Cp"1+:#Mm%+#Mm1,3255?=#Cp"1-:#Mm?<-#Mm10,3254-#Mm1?=#Cp"1>:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1
20:22:33 <EgoBot> Interpreter chef deleted.
20:22:46 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc dechatspeak decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
20:23:17 <oerjan> ok i think they all fit now, unless someone added an interpreter in z...
20:23:46 <oerjan> !delinterp sffffedeesh
20:23:47 <EgoBot> Interpreter sffffedeesh deleted.
20:24:16 -!- zzo38 has joined.
20:24:31 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc dechatspeak decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg
20:25:01 <EgoBot> sh echo ''; (echo -ne 'set terminal dumb\nplot '; cat) | gnuplot
20:25:27 <oerjan> !show postmodern_aoler
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20:36:11 <Demetrius> CakeProphet, what is Problem Sleuth?
20:36:38 -!- elliott__ has joined.
20:36:53 <CakeProphet> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4 Warning: It will likely take more than a day to finish.
20:37:33 <elliott__> CakeProphet: on to Homestuck yet? :-P
20:37:55 <elliott__> Homestuck is, like, twice as long in terms of strips but takes about five times as long to read because of the pesterlogs and Flashes.
20:38:14 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, don't worry, it is impossible to finish Homestuck in a day unless you have the incredible blockheaded seriousness of Vorpal.
20:38:21 -!- aloril has joined.
20:38:40 <elliott__> A week is a more reasonable estimate for Homestuck. Two weeks, if you have a life.
20:38:50 <elliott__> Four days if you have less than zero lifes.
20:39:16 <CakeProphet> I thought Planck units were the smallest measurable quantity of some property
20:39:34 <elliott__> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/sweetbroandhellajeff/?cid=032.jpg
20:39:52 <coppro> elliott__: how do you think you compare to other people in terms of general superiority?
20:40:13 <elliott__> coppro: is this a serious question?
20:40:32 <elliott__> coppro: are you asking everyone this or just me? :D
20:40:38 <elliott__> oh i thought that was "hell yes" :D
20:41:02 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: ah, so it depends on the measurement in question whether or not it is the largest or smallest?
20:41:19 <coppro> elliott__: just you, obviously
20:41:33 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, technically the Planck units are just the units you get from the fundamental physical constants.
20:41:50 <elliott__> coppro: Do I get to know why you're asking if I answer? :P
20:42:25 <CakeProphet> coppro: alt+n should do the trick unless you have over 10 windows up.
20:42:32 <coppro> CakeProphet: yes. yes I do
20:44:07 <elliott__> coppro: I find it fairly obvious that I'm quite a bit more intelligent than some hypothetical average person of my age; I don't think I'm qualified to judge the average intelligence of society as a whole so I'll avoid doing that comparison globally. I'm pretty terrible at motivating myself and working with other people though, so /shrug... I have no idea how to measure the "superiority" of a person :P
20:44:57 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:44:57 -!- pikhq has joined.
20:45:06 <coppro> elliott__: hrm... I'll call that 0.6 Wolframs
20:45:17 <elliott__> coppro: wow, you have no idea how big a Wolfram is
20:45:29 <elliott__> for a start, the standard unit is the Dijkstra, Wolfram is just an exceptionally high measurement on that scale
20:46:02 <elliott__> Secondly I rabidly avoided making any positive claim other than "I'm quite a bit more intelligent than the average fifteen-year-old" X-D
20:46:34 <elliott__> 21:52:11: <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, I am sorely disappointed at the loss of searchable logs of this place.
20:46:34 <elliott__> 21:52:17: <Phantom_Hoover> Please fix your hg ones or something.
20:46:37 <coppro> elliott__: A Wolfram is defined as "thinking oneself superior to everyone else"
20:46:41 <CakeProphet> I mean, hell, I was more intelligent than the average fifteen year old. It's not difficult I think.
20:47:05 <elliott__> coppro: There are vastly more non-fifteen year olds than fifteen year olds, and I only consider myself superior in intelligence :P
20:47:14 <coppro> 0.5 Wolframs is "thinking oneself to be exactly average"
20:47:24 <elliott__> But both Dijkstra's and Wolfram's values on that scale are astronomical :P
20:47:29 <coppro> elliott__: it's an age-adjusted scale
20:47:40 <coppro> Gene Ray I think gets higher than 1
20:47:58 <elliott__> To be honest if 0.5 means you consider yourself average then my real measurement is almost certainly greater than 0.6, but everyone downplays their ego.
20:48:22 <CakeProphet> This may be downplaying my ego, but I don't really consider myself extraordinary.
20:48:26 <coppro> I agree, but that response seemed 0.6-ish
20:48:57 <oerjan> elliott__> Testing this irssi madness
20:48:58 <coppro> I scale higher than I'd like too
20:49:15 -!- jix has joined.
20:49:29 <oerjan> shows up in my irssi as 22:48 elliott__> Testing this irssi madness
20:49:48 <coppro> I'm probably actually in the 0.9+ range
20:49:55 <oerjan> this is slightly disturbing
20:49:57 <CakeProphet> Shows up in mine as: 16:48 < elliott__> Testing this irssi madness
20:50:16 <CakeProphet> except instead of an 'e' there's a string of weird block-shaped symbols.
20:50:26 <elliott__> oerjan> I FUCKING HATE YOU ALL AND YOU SHOULD ALL EAT SHIT AND DIE UGH
20:50:42 <elliott__> oerjan> CakeProphet: coppro: Phantom_Hoover: FUUUUUUCK YOOOOUUUUUUU
20:51:01 <oerjan> elliott__: possibly i should not have revealed this
20:51:17 <elliott__> oerjan: it has clearly driven you insane.
20:52:32 <elliott__> I think it's the left-arrow character
20:53:01 <elliott__> 05:53:06: <CakeProphet> I'm actually not sure why most languages index arrays starting at zero. It makes sense, but I have no way of explaining why..
20:53:19 <elliott__> CakeProphet: Makes indexing arithmetic easier, and also uses the correct definition of the naturals as the indexing set :)
20:53:44 <CakeProphet> does it /really/ make indexing arithmetic easier? What kind of indexing are we talking about?
20:53:57 <CakeProphet> standard incremental/decremental indexing is easy with any range.
20:54:17 <elliott__> twodee->onedee with 0-indexing: yh + x
20:54:22 <elliott__> twodee->onedee with one-indexing: (y-one)h + x
20:54:40 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot.png is what I see
20:55:30 <elliott__> mostly because it has eclipse on it ;D
20:55:41 <CakeProphet> yeah I had a Java class last semester and haven't taken it down.
20:55:53 <coppro> CakeProphet: suppose you have a pointer
20:56:03 <coppro> what do you add to that pointer to get the first element?
20:56:12 <elliott__> pointers are a shitty justification
20:56:18 <elliott__> because pointers make shitty arrays :)
20:56:51 <elliott__> ok you don't know how coordinates work
20:56:53 <coppro> CakeProphet: LIES AND SLANDER
20:58:27 <elliott__> coppro: do i get to know why you asked me now
20:58:38 <CakeProphet> elliott__: actually isn't h=x if you're trying to flatten the array into one dimension?
20:58:49 <coppro> elliott__: I wanted to determine your ego in Wolframs
20:59:18 <elliott__> that is, h is the maximalest y coordinate plus one
20:59:48 <oerjan> um not plus one if it's one-indexed >:)
21:00:47 <oerjan> CLEARLY ONE-INDEXING IS THUS SUPERIOR
21:00:51 -!- ralc has joined.
21:00:55 * oerjan runs away cackling evilly
21:01:51 -!- Demetrius has quit (Quit: see you!).
21:01:56 <lambdabot> [-2,0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,5...
21:02:02 <CakeProphet> oerjan: see? doesn't that just simplify everything?
21:07:03 <oerjan> > [(+)`join`(*)|(*)<-(-)`scanl1`fix(-1:)]
21:07:05 <lambdabot> [-2,0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,5...
21:08:41 <oerjan> > [(+)`join`(-)|(-)<-(-)`scanl1`fix(-1:)]
21:08:41 <lambdabot> [-2,0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,5...
21:09:15 <elliott__> arariarearihaihetihmatcieaeratticsjcs
21:09:36 * oerjan is suddenly reminded of Val$ar
21:10:14 <elliott__> i want some vhdl kind of processor thing what
21:11:24 <oerjan> > (/)`scanl1`fix(0.5:)
21:11:25 <lambdabot> [0.5,1.0,2.0,4.0,8.0,16.0,32.0,64.0,128.0,256.0,512.0,1024.0,2048.0,4096.0,...
21:12:02 <oerjan> at least that idiom is best -1-indexed
21:16:36 <CakeProphet> !addinterp lperl perl while(<>){s/ (?<!\\) \{\{ (.*?) (?!\\) \}\} /$1/xee;print}
21:16:36 <EgoBot> Interpreter lperl installed.
21:16:49 <CakeProphet> !lperl What is all this nonsense about {{90+0}}?
21:16:49 <EgoBot> What is all this nonsense about 90?
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21:21:31 <CakeProphet> oerjan: not a fan of the repeat function I've noticed. fix (x:) is just too cool. :P
21:22:09 <oerjan> ...it did not fit in with the rest there
21:22:45 <CakeProphet> didn't fit in? aren't they equivalent though?
21:23:14 * oerjan declares CakeProphet to have no sense of aesthetics
21:23:58 <oerjan> i mean if we were going for _cleanness_...
21:24:03 <lambdabot> [-2,0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,5...
21:24:19 <lambdabot> [-2,99999999999909,199999999999820,299999999999731,399999999999642,49999999...
21:24:36 <lambdabot> [-2,99,200,301,402,503,604,705,806,907,1008,1109,1210,1311,1412,1513,1614,1...
21:24:40 <lambdabot> [-2,999,2000,3001,4002,5003,6004,7005,8006,9007,10008,11009,12010,13011,140...
21:24:42 <lambdabot> [-2,9999,20000,30001,40002,50003,60004,70005,80006,90007,100008,110009,1200...
21:24:45 <lambdabot> [-2,99999,200000,300001,400002,500003,600004,700005,800006,900007,1000008,1...
21:24:47 <lambdabot> [-2,9999999,20000000,30000001,40000002,50000003,60000004,70000005,80000006,...
21:24:50 <lambdabot> [-2,99999990,199999982,299999974,399999966,499999958,599999950,699999942,79...
21:24:56 <lambdabot> [-2,990,1982,2974,3966,4958,5950,6942,7934,8926,9918,10910,11902,12894,1388...
21:24:59 <lambdabot> [-2,9990,19982,29974,39966,49958,59950,69942,79934,89926,99918,109910,11990...
21:25:03 * oerjan wonders if elliott__ has a point
21:25:40 <CakeProphet> I like [1..] because it's actually [0.99.., 1.99....] :)
21:26:55 <elliott__> , he said to the phd in mathematics
21:27:32 <CakeProphet> though it would be nifty (read: pointless) if Haskell supported 0.99..
21:29:19 <CakeProphet> !lperl {{'a'..'Z' #Perl's enumeration stuff isn't anywhere near as good as Haskell's}}
21:32:02 <EgoBot> Interpreter lperl deleted.
21:32:03 <CakeProphet> !addinterp lperl perl while(<>){s/ (?<!\\) \*\{ (.*?) (?!\\) \}\* /$1/xee;print}
21:32:04 <EgoBot> Interpreter lperl installed.
21:33:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:33:58 <CakeProphet> !lperl This is a *{'test' . join ('','a'..'z')}*
21:33:58 <EgoBot> This is a testabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
21:35:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:35:10 <CakeProphet> !lperl Also a test to enforce list context *{@{['a'..'z']}}* *{()='a'..'z'}*
21:35:10 <EgoBot> Also a test to enforce list context 26 *{()='a'..'z'}*
21:36:03 <EgoBot> Interpreter lperl deleted.
21:36:10 <CakeProphet> !addinterp lperl perl while(<>){s/ (?<!\\) \*\{ (.*?) (?!\\) \}\* /$1/gxee;print}
21:36:10 <EgoBot> Interpreter lperl installed.
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21:50:04 <CakeProphet> Your SYLLADEX'S FETCH MODUS is currently dictated by the logic of a STACK DATA STRUCTURE. You were never all that great with data structures and you find the concept puzzling and mildly irritating.
21:52:29 <CakeProphet> elliott__: so what's a better implementation for arrays than utilizing pointer arithmetic?
21:52:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:52:53 <elliott__> CakeProphet: well the /interface/ of pointers is bad for arrays
21:52:58 <elliott__> implementation demands on the data, ofc
21:58:12 <CakeProphet> what could be more straightforward for a particular datum than a contiguous region of memory accesses by pointer arithmetic?
21:58:28 <elliott__> it's ok for one-dimensional arrays but...
21:59:17 -!- Slereah has joined.
22:00:38 <elliott__> CakeProphet: btw i should note that homestuck is still ongoing
22:01:08 <elliott__> (after two years and over three thousand seven hundred pages :))
22:01:52 <CakeProphet> so elliott__, are you a fortran programmer? If so I have a question for you.
22:02:24 <oklopol> a lot of what i did in my master's thesis was basically esolanging
22:02:43 <elliott__> oklopol: yeah yeah and im the president of the us stop bragging
22:07:22 <oklopol> actually i do even more esolanging type stuff in this survey thingie i just finished, I'M SURE YOU'D ALL ENJOY IT
22:08:00 <elliott__> oklopol: im going to remove your organs
22:08:43 <elliott__> `addquote <oklopol> yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm considering getting a live one since stuff like "hello $name, your first name $first_name has |$first_name| letters, so by using numerology we can tell ..." is getting kind of boring
22:08:45 <HackEgo> 437) <oklopol> yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm considering getting a live one since stuff like "hello $name, your first name $first_name has |$first_name| letters, so by using numerology we can tell ..." is getting kind of boring
22:09:04 <elliott__> he said "`quote add" because he's an idiot who should die
22:09:16 <elliott__> (it's an insult to my quote system :<)
22:09:45 <elliott__> 06:34:27: <pikhq> But thank goodness you're not also exhibiting an entirely irrational belief.
22:09:47 <CakeProphet> elliott__: the subcommand interface is reminiscent of MUD commands.
22:09:50 <elliott__> pikhq: SAID THE EX-CHRISTIAN ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D; D; D; ;D; D; ;D;D;
22:10:11 <oklopol> i wonder if you can get napping pills at 1am in the morning
22:10:13 <elliott__> 06:37:30: <oklopol> although, if a 40yo friend of a friend asks me to marry them anytime soon i'll probably have to say yes, and start believing.
22:10:16 <elliott__> oklopol: ive got a confession to make
22:10:27 <oklopol> i need to be at uni in 7 hours and i've slept all day
22:11:09 <oklopol> elliott__: yeah right and i'm a famous bisexual
22:11:47 <oklopol> we can't, you're underage and have a penis
22:12:23 <oklopol> but how's about that thing you were supposed to get back to me about
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22:23:14 <zzo38> Did you try the "NABEATSU of the world" code golf?
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22:28:26 <CakeProphet> I wonder how someone goes about becoming an IRCop
22:28:55 <oerjan> you mean like freenode staff?
22:30:00 <CakeProphet> (Note: the slightest bit of thunder in the distance makes me disconnect. It's stupid. I probably won't be able to hold a conversation)
22:30:43 <elliott__> CakeProphet: By not asking that question :)
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22:31:37 <oerjan> no no, you just go to #freenode and ask "How can I become the ruler of this network as part of my quest for world domination?"
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22:33:00 <oerjan> well that should slightly increase _my_ chances, at least
22:34:27 <oklopol> freenode ircops do not k-line spammers
22:34:39 <elliott__> freenode is a bit too conservative a network for your tastes I think ;D
22:34:48 <elliott__> or, i suppose, in the world of irc, too progressive
22:35:06 <oklopol> well, i know this guy who spend like a week just spamming 24/7 and asking for a k-line before he got one
22:35:24 <elliott__> but freenode actually uses glines don't they or something
22:35:27 <elliott__> klines are one-server which is silly
22:35:37 <oklopol> freenode usually gives a kline afaik
22:36:19 <Sgeo> Well, there are some channels that if you join you get klined, iirc
22:36:30 <CakeProphet> so they won't [kg]-line you for disrupting hundreds of channels at a time with spam?
22:36:42 <coppro> CakeProphet: they will
22:36:56 <elliott__> that would require more than one nick anyway
22:36:58 <coppro> the problem is that Freenode staff are not always around
22:37:07 <elliott__> hmm or is the additional mode thing greater than that
22:37:13 <oklopol> but not just from say spamming all day on #freenode or #ubuntu
22:37:20 <oklopol> they just keep kickbanning you
22:39:26 <elliott__> oklopol: did you know you're a aoiejsj
22:40:42 <CakeProphet> elliott__: so whatever became of representing regular expressions as sets in Haskell?
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22:40:54 <elliott__> CakeProphet: wasn't that like years ago
22:41:04 <elliott__> it doesn't work for obvious reasons
22:41:19 <zzo38> My own IRC server has no spam as far as I know, possibly because spam bots do not find it.
22:41:24 <elliott__> you can't skip infinite elements to find the one you want.
22:41:39 <zzo38> I used to have a comment form that was also spam many, but now I changed it to comment on gopher only, and there is no spam message.
22:41:57 <CakeProphet> elliott__: what if you use some fancy method of interleaving results from each expression?
22:42:07 <elliott__> CakeProphet: it's a pointless idea anyway :)
22:42:16 <elliott__> a tree structure is far more appropriate
22:42:27 <oklopol> "<elliott__> you can't skip infinite elements to find the one you want." <<< regular languages are countable sets
22:42:46 <elliott__> oklopol: but the naive way of doing | (concatenation) doesn't work
22:42:51 <oklopol> but it can be exponential complexity to search ofc
22:42:52 <elliott__> and IIRC interleaving had a stupid problem that i forget
22:43:01 <elliott__> because recognising it becomes like O(n)
22:43:07 <elliott__> where n is something utterly unrelated to the string you're testing
22:43:26 <oklopol> "<elliott__> oklopol: but the naive way of doing | (concatenation) doesn't work" <<< very good point
22:43:49 <oklopol> well n can be 2^k where k is length, as i mentioned
22:43:54 <oklopol> for instance for the full language
22:43:56 <elliott__> right, point is, lists are a stupid way to do it
22:44:02 <CakeProphet> n would be, the cardinality of the language accepted by the regular expression right? or whatever the terminology is.
22:44:08 <oklopol> so is your mom because she doesn't know what regexps are
22:44:16 <elliott__> it's the number of elements before the one you're testing in the list
22:44:19 <elliott__> oklopol: oh right the main flaw is
22:44:29 <elliott__> for anything that matches infinitezzzzz
22:44:36 <elliott__> yeah it was bsically the stupidest idea
22:44:41 <CakeProphet> elliott__: well right, I was talking about worst-case (which technically can't ever happen in an infinite list)
22:44:52 <oklopol> it most certainly is the stupidest idea in the world, yes
22:45:16 <oklopol> i was only disagreeing with the technical detail that was completely irrelevant
22:45:44 <oklopol> for some reason i suddenly want a theremin
22:46:30 <elliott__> the ondes martenot is really like fifteen instruments in one
22:47:40 <zzo38> I have made my own version of MegaZeux, including many features that other people have requested (and some that nobody has requested until far after I made my version), but still nobody else likes it (except for 2 people, one of whom refuses to use it anyways).
22:47:42 <CakeProphet> elliott__: sure, but only if a piano is like 88 instruments in one.
22:47:58 <elliott__> an instrument is something that you can activate to make a single noise
22:48:20 <CakeProphet> more if you count each string, but I don't. I got by the key because that's the smallest dividable component that a player interacts with.
22:48:22 <elliott__> so a theremin in a continuous universe is a real line of instruments
22:49:14 <CakeProphet> elliott__: same thing with an ondes because of the ribbon.
22:49:20 <zzo38> A piano can also do many other things, such as pedals, holding one key down silently for one string to make the other one make noise too, it is a different kind, and you could also play the strings directly.
22:50:04 <elliott__> CakeProphet: what's the ribbon again
22:50:45 <CakeProphet> elliott__: there's a little thing you can press down right in front of the normal keys that allows you to produce a continuous pitch.
22:51:07 <elliott__> does that actually give you infinite number of tones though
22:51:12 <elliott__> like a theremin (theoretically) does
22:51:16 <CakeProphet> I believe the note corresponds to which keyboard key you're physically below
22:52:03 <oklopol> because then 1cm is not the same distance in notespace everywhere
22:52:11 <oklopol> of course, it is not all that in the theremin afaiu
22:52:34 <CakeProphet> oklopol: I might be wrong on that assumption actually. I don't know for sure.
22:52:47 <CakeProphet> it just seemed to make sense. Otherwise you'd have to memorize which location is what pitch.
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22:53:05 <CakeProphet> oklopol: also, I'm guessing you mean a fretless guitar.
22:53:07 <oklopol> but at least it continuously starts rising faster as you go, what you described would halve and double the speed at pretty much random spots
22:53:35 <elliott__> imagine playing a tune designed for a flat, continuous range on that
22:53:37 <CakeProphet> well, no, it doesn't sound chopped up when you change the pitch.
22:53:59 <oklopol> well in a fretful one, you have the same thing
22:54:00 <CakeProphet> here, I will find some music with ondes martenot.
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22:54:28 <zzo38> Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know.
22:54:36 <elliott__> `addquote <zzo38> Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know.
22:54:38 <HackEgo> 438) <zzo38> Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know.
22:55:29 <CakeProphet> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a35DH9tKjZI
22:56:13 <oklopol> erm what, the left hand is just used to control volume? :D
22:56:43 <oklopol> in the theremin it's okay because it looks like a guitar.
22:56:45 <CakeProphet> the left hand can control a number of properties.
22:56:54 <oklopol> this one looks like a piano so it feels retarded not to have two hands
22:56:58 <elliott__> oklopol: in the theremin it's okay because without the volume it'd be stupid :D
22:57:19 <elliott__> maybe if you had like superfast superprecise hands so you could avoid making everything sound like running your keys down a piano
22:58:01 <oklopol> i wish i had a touchkeyboard
22:58:08 <CakeProphet> there are different styles of playing an ondes. Also it can produce chords through other means. (I believe there are switches or buttons for different chords)
22:59:17 <oklopol> going to get one asap actually
22:59:28 <oklopol> i've had this one thingie in mind for some time
22:59:53 <elliott__> http://www.pimproom.com/sc_images/products/741_large_image.jpg
23:00:06 <elliott__> way cooler than a touchscreen though :D
23:00:14 <oklopol> yeah those would be awesome
23:00:16 <elliott__> http://www.biztoolbelt.com/uploads/5CellulonCL850VirtualKeyboard.jpg THE FUTURE
23:00:30 <elliott__> oklopol: http://www.cectcellphone.com/product.php?id_product=178/178-VKB%20Celluon%20CL850.html
23:00:35 <monqy> he future looks awful
23:01:08 <monqy> PEANUTS FOR THE PPLEASURE
23:01:31 -!- elliott__ has set topic: PEANUTS FOR THE PPLEASURE | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
23:01:49 <elliott__> PEANUTS FOR THE PPLEASURE by det ondes Problem
23:01:59 <elliott__> coming to an esoteric record store near you
23:04:20 <CakeProphet> it appears that you can play the ondes 2-handed at a constant volume.
23:04:45 <CakeProphet> also the keys can apparently bend a full semiton as well.
23:05:10 <oerjan> elliott__: if you capitalize Problem you really need to capitalize Ondes
23:05:32 <elliott__> oerjan: no, the instrument is ondes Martenot
23:05:41 <elliott__> I lowercased det just because "Det ondes" looks weird :D
23:06:02 <elliott__> oerjan: you just don't understand _art_
23:07:04 <oklopol> art is just fart but you don't even give an eff
23:07:14 <elliott__> "synthpop nintendo-noise jazz fusion" <-- i can put words together too
23:07:30 <CakeProphet> elliott__: no those are all based on actual genres.
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23:07:44 <elliott__> CakeProphet: what, you know of a synthpop nintendo-noise jazz fusion band? :D
23:07:58 <CakeProphet> ...no, I know of synthpop bands, nintendocore, noise, and jazz fusion.
23:08:08 <elliott__> yes, and i too can string those words together
23:08:12 <CakeProphet> and by "know" I mean "I could find them with Wikipedia and Google"
23:08:47 <oklopol> i'd certainly like a touchscreen based instrument with a continuous scale where a semitone is xcm everywhere
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23:08:56 <oklopol> but touchscreens should feel like poking a boob
23:09:04 <elliott__> `addquote <oklopol> but touchscreens should feel like poking a boob
23:09:06 <HackEgo> 439) <oklopol> but touchscreens should feel like poking a boob
23:09:56 <oerjan> CakeProphet: http://xkcd.com/903/
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23:10:10 <oklopol> are there boobs you wack and squeeze around to move the mouse?
23:10:37 <CakeProphet> oerjan: yes I often have this problem. Though I can definitely tell someone what spark plugs and cars are without wikipedia.
23:10:51 <oklopol> like those little nipples in laptop keyboards, but they'd be full-blown boobies
23:11:01 <elliott__> `addquote <oklopol> are there boobs you wack and squeeze around to move the mouse? [...] <oklopol> like those little nipples in laptop keyboards, but they'd be full-blown boobies
23:11:03 <HackEgo> 440) <oklopol> are there boobs you wack and squeeze around to move the mouse? [...] <oklopol> like those little nipples in laptop keyboards, but they'd be full-blown boobies
23:11:19 <CakeProphet> oerjan: but, shit, there's too much information to remember everything.
23:11:26 * Sgeo is not a car person
23:11:56 <elliott__> so on the subject of things that aren't how depressing sgeo is
23:12:02 <elliott__> http://xkcd.com/907/ <-- randy realises he's getting old
23:12:31 <CakeProphet> Sgeo: a spark plug provides a spark that ignites a mixture of fuel and air in an engine.
23:12:55 <CakeProphet> elliott__: yes I've noticed a change of tone in the most recent comics.
23:13:41 <elliott__> do you mean it's been getting shittier cuz its been going on a lot longer than that
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23:14:43 <elliott__> http://xkcd.com/903/ is one of the high-points of the post-four hundred era
23:15:12 <elliott__> actually i almost feel like it's gotten bad enough that it should be the post-five hundred era
23:15:24 <elliott__> in comparison the fourxx comics are much better than the current lot :D
23:15:42 <CakeProphet> elliott__: there's also this: http://xkcd.com/550/
23:15:52 <elliott__> CakeProphet: Except that that's a terrible strip??
23:16:24 <oklopol> haha lol @ "Ha ha: MEMES!"
23:17:05 <elliott__> let me just set aside some time to be stupid enough to laugh at that
23:17:10 <elliott__> hey looks like next month is chemical lobotomy month youre in luck
23:17:21 <oerjan> oklopol: MEMES? DON'T YOU MEAN CARROTS?
23:17:37 <elliott__> oerjan: im going to snap your spine and drain all the blood from your neck
23:17:55 <elliott__> oerjan: then throw you into a meat grinder
23:17:57 <oerjan> elliott__: hey it was the one perfect time for it
23:18:25 <oerjan> oklopol: reddit meme. exceedingly forced.
23:19:31 <elliott__> oklopol: "I thought of a few witty remarks to make on a number line, let's draw this... hmm... I guess I need to pad it out a bit... like with false statements or something"
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23:19:42 <elliott__> "What if I posted this as an xkcd"
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23:19:55 <elliott__> "doubt it I'll probably get laid if I post this or something"
23:20:19 <elliott__> if that doesn't make sense, then we've localised the problem to randy's brain.
23:20:39 <oklopol> i still feel like i'm not quite getting all those number remarks
23:21:24 <oerjan> or possibly it actually _is_ in oklopol's brain
23:22:59 <CakeProphet> oerjan: quite a bit of it is math trolling I believe.
23:23:54 <oerjan> infuriates how? but i can only find one statement there that might possibly be _true_
23:24:16 <elliott__> i'm poorly so i'm sitting here on irc wasting time and you're trying to justify one of the worst xkcd's in recent memory, it is merely amusing to respond :)
23:24:51 <oklopol> 8 is the largest even prime?
23:25:03 <oklopol> why does he write that there
23:25:15 <elliott__> oklopol: because it's FALSE! HAHA!
23:25:22 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure oklopol is trolling us
23:25:26 <elliott__> see if he had put it on two, it would be true.
23:25:46 <oklopol> some of them do make sense, some i don't get but it's my fault, but what the fuck is that prime thing
23:26:00 <elliott__> oklopol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EnrZMrNBQc
23:30:47 <CakeProphet> elliott__: I don't think it's a good comic either but it's obvious that most of it is intended to either confuse or annoy, which it has apparently done.
23:31:25 <CakeProphet> people who get annoyed at false statements.
23:31:41 <elliott__> this is stupid and you're stupid for thinking it's a good strip :P
23:31:53 <monqy> I'm annoyed that someone would make it
23:32:45 <CakeProphet> this guy seems to know what he's talking about: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71146#p2614309
23:32:56 <elliott__> doubtful, he's a poster on the xkcd forum
23:33:00 <elliott__> monqy: yes, it is predictably shit
23:33:02 <CakeProphet> but otherwise that entire thread is retarded.
23:33:15 <elliott__> "I can't supply all the details, but there might be some grounds for 8 being the supposed largest even prime joke."
23:33:20 <elliott__> pictured: trying to defend a comic being funny
23:33:33 <elliott__> that... does this person even understand humour
23:33:46 <elliott__> "The joke is justified by my insane logic; HA HA!"
23:34:25 <elliott__> wow, you're as good at jokes as randall
23:34:48 <CakeProphet> dude I'm a pro. Don't even compare to that shit.
23:34:51 * oerjan beats CakeProphet with a dead parrot
23:35:22 <elliott__> monqy: i wonder if randy gets propositioned on the street
23:35:28 <elliott__> (answer: no, but he tries his darndest)
23:36:13 <elliott__> yeah im practically tearing off my shirt and destroying walls
23:36:37 <Sgeo> representitives?
23:37:15 <monqy> sgeo you are so immature
23:37:18 <Sgeo> representatives
23:37:20 <oklopol> http://xkcd.com/889/ <<< finally a good one
23:37:49 <monqy> do turtles really think that
23:38:06 <elliott__> "I'm getting this picture in my mind... a teenage Randall, saying to himself "when I'm in my twenties, then, then I'll get all the sex!" And then a barely adult Randall saying to himself "when I'm 20, then, then I'll get all the sex!" And then he just skips over about thirty to fifty years and decides it must be when you're really old that you get to have a lot of sex."
23:41:15 <CakeProphet> elliott__: I see someone else shares your seething hatred for Randall in his shitty comics. You should send him a PM and he might invite you to a shirt-tearing wall-destruction party.
23:41:53 <monqy> whose shirts whose walls
23:42:05 <monqy> sounds manly regardless
23:42:06 <elliott__> It's just good ol-... well, old - xkcdsucks.
23:42:28 <elliott__> Which got stupider near the end but now it mostly has guest reviews and they're occasionally amusing.
23:42:34 <elliott__> I only checked because we were talking about it. :p
23:49:47 <oklopol> http://xkcd.com/887/ okay this was hilarious
23:50:56 <oklopol> i actually laughed out loud at the punchline
23:51:27 <elliott__> i have, but randy told me AYB references aren't funny again yet
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23:54:24 <oklopol> it was a reference? ewww :\
23:54:41 <oklopol> okay funniness has disappeared
23:55:25 <oklopol> First, "All primes are odd except 2, and 2 is the oddest of all". It's my understanding that when something in number theory is proven and lots of it depends on looking at things "p-adically" the first paper proves it for all odd primes. Then, a year later someone comes back and does the hard 2 case.
23:55:26 <oklopol> 'First, "All primes are odd except 2, and 2 is the oddest of all". It's my understanding that when something in number theory is proven and lots of it depends on looking at things "p-adically" the first paper proves it for all odd primes. Then, a year later someone comes back and does the hard 2 case.'
23:55:37 <oklopol> is this true? sounds retarded.
23:55:47 <coppro> AFAICT that wasn't a reference to 286
23:55:52 <coppro> it was obviously a reference to Zero Wing
23:55:54 <oklopol> i've seen the opposite happen about 42 times
23:56:10 <elliott__> coppro: 286's punchline implies "AYB is not funny yet"
23:56:14 <oklopol> if it was a reference, it was not funny; but certainly sounds like how AYB could've started
23:56:24 <elliott__> not many years later at all, 887's punchline is "AYB is hilarious"
23:56:44 <elliott__> by order of randy i can't find 887 funny.
23:56:50 <coppro> elliott__: maybe it's funny again now
23:57:09 <elliott__> coppro: sorry, Randy has not yet said so in his comic, so I cannot believe it.
23:57:15 <elliott__> "Decades from now" --http://xkcd.com/286/
23:57:19 <elliott__> it's not funny yet, it has not been decades
23:57:50 <Patashu> this webcomic has no internal consistency
23:57:59 <CakeProphet> elliott__: wow, so there's a website in which people devote significant amounts of time finding flaws in xkcd comics?
23:58:29 <elliott__> it takes, like, three minutes to write a blog post
23:58:37 <elliott__> how long did that p-adic poster spend trying to defend the eight-prime joke? :P
23:58:49 <CakeProphet> enough to write several paragraphs of hate and even dig back into previous comics to find places where he was inconsistent or used the same joke again.
23:59:12 <elliott__> CakeProphet: have you considered that it's fun to pretend to take it more seriously than you actually do
23:59:27 <oerjan> to prove fermat's last theorem it suffices to prove it for each odd prime, and 4.
23:59:29 <elliott__> come on, it's less pathetic than tons of shit the xkcd fans would do for the comic
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23:59:42 <elliott__> call it "literary criticism" if you want ;D
23:59:59 <CakeProphet> elliott__: well, depends on your definition of 'fun.' it sounds like a terrible waste of time to me.