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00:12:30 <elliott> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Interpreters/cfunge-37128.shtml
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00:45:17 <oerjan> !swedish cume-a egeeen
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00:49:03 <CakeProphet> My yow.lines apparently only has the cabbage-brain quote.
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01:12:55 <CakeProphet> how do I support programmer-defined prefix, postfix, infix, ternary, and circumfix operators...
01:13:53 <elliott> hmm, should I use harpy or generate nasm code myself
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01:18:36 <elliott> The function fac is not really our wanted factorial function. Instead
01:18:36 <elliott> it is a monadic command that, when executed, writes assembler code
01:18:36 <elliott> into a buffer. To ensure, that this buffer is always large enough to hold
01:18:36 <elliott> the generated instruction, you have to sprinkle your code with calls to
01:18:36 <elliott> ensureBufferSize. In line 7 we make sure that 160 bytes are available,
01:18:37 <elliott> which is enough for our 10 instructions. As a rule of thumb, no instruction
01:18:38 <elliott> can be larger than 16 bytes, so the number of assembler instructions times
01:24:02 <elliott> if I want to push a structure to the stack
01:24:06 <elliott> do I push the first field first or last
01:24:48 <oerjan> aka "is the stack growing upwards or downwards"?
01:25:21 <oerjan> oh and what about alignment
01:25:49 <elliott> well it's a dword and a byte
01:25:55 <elliott> i can make that two dwords if necessary
01:25:59 <elliott> (dword = thirty two bits, i.e. machine word here)
01:26:12 <oerjan> (note: i don't actually know any specific answers)
01:30:11 <oklopol> i know some specific answers
01:31:25 <oklopol> "<oklofok> colon is where your ass comes from right" <<< what :D have i said this :DS
01:32:51 <Vorpal> <olsner> and I just became so tried that I was about to reply to elliott in swedish
01:32:51 <Vorpal> <elliott> olsner: please do so
01:33:36 <elliott> no i hate you i want olsner to do it :(
01:33:59 <Vorpal> elliott, aha, jag förstår
01:34:05 <oklopol> elliott: du r en svansnyckel
01:34:15 <Vorpal> oklopol, en vad för något?
01:34:30 <Vorpal> oklopol, what on earth is that
01:34:45 <Vorpal> oklopol, then what does a tail key do
01:34:51 <Vorpal> I just translated the compound word
01:34:57 <Vorpal> I have no idea what a tail key IS
01:35:01 <oklopol> erm, obviously that depends on the data structure
01:35:20 <Vorpal> oklopol, oh, I was imagining something like an hexkey, like you get with IKEA stuff
01:36:32 <Vorpal> Jag tror det är ute liksom
01:37:44 <elliott> A theory about Rose from a CS perspective (self.homestuck)
01:37:45 <elliott> posts that can not be good dot txt
01:38:03 <oklopol> so um half of thursdays lectures were time travel stuff
01:38:41 <oerjan> a rose by any other name would still be NP-complete
01:39:01 <oklopol> and *not* within a formal model. *shiver*
01:39:36 <oklopol> thought experiments and shit
01:40:13 <oerjan> timey-wimey braided algebras
01:40:52 <oklopol> and everyone found it really funny when the lecturer presented his examples of weird ways time travel would work because they were sooo crazy. and i was like oh god, did i just teleport into some kind of monkey kindergarten.
01:41:01 <oerjan> *braided hopf algebras
01:41:39 <oklopol> i wish i had the balls i had in high school when i'd just start laughing and walk out when things got stupid
01:42:44 <oklopol> Vorpal: oh btw i totally don't get "<Vorpal> Jag tror det är ute liksom"
01:43:29 <Vorpal> oklopol, that means that I think "okej dokej" is slang that is no longer in fashion
01:44:12 <oklopol> erm "ute" as in english "out (of fashion)"?
01:44:13 <pikhq_> ... "okej dokej"? Is that in *any* way similar to the apparent cognate in English?
01:44:27 <oklopol> pikhq_: in *very* way similar.
01:45:51 <oklopol> elliott: granted, i didn't actually understand half of the time travel stuff they said so it might have made sense. everything i did understand was retarded at least tho. :D
01:47:01 <pikhq_> oklopol: Most discussions of time travel are.
01:48:17 <pikhq_> It's one of those things that generally gets handwaved because people really don't want to contemplate the (il)logic of it all.
01:48:22 <oklopol> pikhq_: but it's an INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE, and we all know people who talk in those must be p smart right? at least wolfram didn't come.... :DSDS
01:48:47 <oklopol> that would've been just... awesome
01:51:49 <oklopol> half the time the time travel model is one where a consistent universe essentially seems impossible if it supports any nontrivial agent-like behavior (because certainly one agent will want to destroy it using a retarded paradox), the other half seems to actually assume an implicit extra time axis and moving in time is still moving forward on this axis, you are just given a copy of past contents of the world.
01:52:02 <oklopol> aaaand i just said something trivial and retarded about tt
01:52:11 <oklopol> luckily it's so long you can't quote it
01:52:33 <elliott> `addquote <oklopol> half the time the time travel model is one where a consistent universe essentially seems impossible if it supports any nontrivial agent-like behavior (because certainly one agent will want to destroy it using a retarded paradox), the other half seems to actually assume an implicit extra time axis and moving in time is still moving forward on this axis, you are just given a copy of past contents of the world.
01:52:34 <HackEgo> 448) <oklopol> half the time the time travel model is one where a consistent universe essentially seems impossible if it supports any nontrivial agent-like behavior (because certainly one agent will want to destroy it using a retarded paradox), the other half seems to actually assume an implicit extra time axis and moving in
01:52:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5048
01:53:44 <oklopol> elliott: are you sure it will be apparent why that was quoted in the first place :D
01:56:04 <oklopol> i kind of want to buy domino tiles and build a half-adder, but there's the slight problem that you can only try it on one input and then it's gone :\
01:56:24 <elliott> oklopol: make a self-resetting domino computer
01:57:32 <oklopol> what i want is some sort of global "plz get up again lol" button
01:57:59 <oklopol> your idea is pressing it pumps the dominoes full of vacuum so that air pressure lifts them in the air or something?
01:58:43 <elliott> oklopol: like, a domino that, when it falls, pushes a gust of air in front of it
01:58:49 <elliott> so that a fallen domino in front of it will upright itself
01:58:51 <oerjan> hm... dominoes with resettable springs
01:58:58 <elliott> you just need a bunch of them lined up next to all your real dominoes
01:59:26 <oklopol> but they can't just rise right away, the implementation of all nontrivial behaviors *relies* on dominoes falling just once
01:59:42 <oklopol> at least the way that psychologist dude did it
01:59:50 <elliott> when you need to reset, you make it flip over the trigger
01:59:55 <elliott> which then runs down a line of vacuum dominoes
02:00:41 <oklopol> "<elliott> you just need a bunch of them lined up next to all your real dominoes" <<< so to lift up my dominoes, i build another identical arrangement next to the fallen one?
02:01:43 <oerjan> I SEE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT PLAN
02:02:21 <elliott> no, the vacuum dominoes next to them /lift up/ the dominoes
02:02:29 <oklopol> yeah, while falling themselves
02:02:46 <oklopol> but that's not really a problem since you can just use another layer of vacuum dominoes
02:02:55 <elliott> oklopol: no wait, have another type of domino
02:03:01 <elliott> when it's pushed down, it blows air to the side of it
02:03:06 <elliott> then, just use them as your normal dominoes
02:03:17 <elliott> and they'll prop up the vacuum dominoes as soon as they're used
02:03:29 <oklopol> so am i to understand vacuum dominoes pass a signal along the arrangement, while not losing potential energy in the process?
02:03:53 <elliott> effectively they teleport all the dominoes back in time to when they were all up.
02:04:06 <elliott> CakeProphet: got no asterisk key fucker
02:04:53 <elliott> oklopol: oerjan's spring idea is better :P
02:05:05 <elliott> just need a trigger for the springs that is weak enough to be pushed by a domino
02:05:11 <elliott> and then um, acts as a spring itself
02:05:33 <elliott> there are little platforms for all the dominoes
02:05:34 <oklopol> actually for a while yesterday i seriously did try to come up with a domino tile that would fall, and then automatically rise up after falling
02:05:41 <elliott> that when a domino falls on it
02:05:49 <elliott> turns on all the electromagnets for like half a second
02:05:52 <oklopol> then i realized there's this thing called physics
02:05:53 <elliott> snapping all the dominoes back into place
02:05:58 <elliott> because the bottom of them is magnetic
02:06:57 <elliott> i'd replace my computer with one made out of those
02:07:49 <oklopol> anyway i have to get going, first lecture at 9 and i need to do a few iterations on my article, and do some unmentionable things which also take hours
02:10:24 <oerjan> `addquote <oklopol> anyway i have to get going, first lecture at 9 and i need to do a few iterations on my article, and do some unmentionable things which also take hours <oklopol> and masturbate as well
02:10:25 <HackEgo> 449) <oklopol> anyway i have to get going, first lecture at 9 and i need to do a few iterations on my article, and do some unmentionable things which also take hours <oklopol> and masturbate as well
02:13:13 <HackEgo> 244) <elliott> oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better?
02:14:43 <CakeProphet> elliott: oh, I was referring to the agda mixfix stuff.
02:14:51 <elliott> CakeProphet: oh, well that's irrelevant
02:15:04 <elliott> you don't really use underscores in identifiers in haskell or agda
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02:17:45 <CakeProphet> I was thinking about including some kind of metasyntactic capability beyond the limited form I'm thinking of implementing.
02:17:52 <elliott> CakeProphet: how is it lame
02:17:53 <CakeProphet> but that will probably just makes things really confusing.
02:17:54 <elliott> just pick another damn character
02:17:57 <elliott> it can even be syntax like
02:18:04 <elliott> so you can use every character in a name
02:18:11 <elliott> come on, the meaningful part of mixfix is how you implement it
02:18:21 <elliott> it lets you mix operators of all fixity, and also make control structures into operators
02:18:21 <CakeProphet> elliott: mainly because I don't trailing characters because they're lame. Sound reasoning, I know.
02:18:53 <elliott> CakeProphet: dude, read the whole paper before saying things like that
02:19:00 <elliott> this is a really well-tested way to do the shit you want
02:19:07 <elliott> all kinds of operators with a simple parser that can handle module imports properly
02:19:41 <elliott> CakeProphet: you can layer over whatever "definition" syntax you want
02:22:15 <elliott> i think there's more than one, even
02:22:23 <elliott> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.157.7899%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&ei=0X_xTa_cJMPOhAfi_Pw_&usg=AFQjCNFD2vxF9fbpvu3Fo19922FVD_qFMw&sig2=fexG0fjeemztQHd3K9x0Yw
02:22:38 <elliott> Nils Anders Danielsson1, and Ulf Norell2
02:27:06 <CakeProphet> elliott: so this paper will show me how to parse mixfixed operators without requiring ugly naming conventions?
02:27:44 <elliott> CakeProphet: THE NAMING CONVENTIONS ARE A PURELY SYNTACTIC FEATURE OF DEFINING THE OPERATORS
02:27:49 <elliott> FOR FUCK'S SAKE THAT IS LIKE THE LEAST IMPORTANT PART OF ANYTHING
02:27:59 <elliott> IT GIVES A FULL PARSING GRAMMAR >_<
02:28:06 <elliott> CakeProphet: Would you prefer I said:
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02:28:27 <elliott> CakeProphet: No, the theorems used in the quasimodular parsing definition require on the exact ASCII string used, which must have embedded underscore characters in it.
02:28:30 <elliott> Otherwise it is mathematically inconsistent.
02:28:45 <CakeProphet> no that is the opposite of what I prefer. :)
02:30:29 <elliott> CakeProphet: Anyway, the only time you EVER have trailing characters is in prefix situations.
02:30:41 <elliott> if/then/else is affected; if/then/else/end is not.
02:30:51 <elliott> And you can easily form the actual list of holes however you want in your actual language.
02:41:16 <CakeProphet> There will be no holes in my language as that will produce memory leaks.
02:41:45 <CakeProphet> Any holes that are found will be patched accordingly.
02:44:38 <CakeProphet> What does a compiled Perl regex consist of?
02:44:59 <pikhq_> Y'know, automake really could do with a means of having per-directory Makefile.am files *without* producing recursive make.
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02:45:45 <elliott> CakeProphet: Reading http://perl.plover.com/Rx/ is quite elucidating
02:47:41 <CakeProphet> as in the source code right? The actual English is rather sparse and not helpful..
02:48:39 <elliott> CakeProphet: http://perl.plover.com/Rx/paper/
02:48:47 <elliott> Read this and you'll understand everything.
02:50:30 <elliott> Hardly; Rx works well (I've never used it, but it reportedly does)
02:50:38 <elliott> And "Rx formed the basis for the regex debugger component of ActiveState's ASPN Komodo IDE. (Whether it still does, I can't say.)"
02:50:53 <elliott> Anyway, just read it, it's interesting and helpful for understanding Perl regex internals :P
02:53:04 <CakeProphet> I will definitely read it because it will help me in writing an efficient regular expression engine.
02:53:23 <elliott> But it'll help you understand Perl's.
02:53:30 <elliott> CakeProphet: But really, you should just use PCRE :-p
02:54:07 <elliott> Because it can do just about every fancy thing Perl can, and is fast, neither of which you'll be able to say about yours unless you work on it for literal years :P
02:54:14 <elliott> Plus everyone knows PCRE syntax.
02:54:22 <elliott> Is this your fancy super-regexp thing?
02:54:31 <elliott> Because those aren't regexps, dude, they're a programming language inspired by regexps.
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02:57:21 <CakeProphet> which is why learning about how regexps are handled internally by other programs will be helpful.
02:59:27 <elliott> "The logo of Lulz Security suggests the group does not take what it does too seriously" --BBC News
03:00:32 <pikhq_> Doesn't the name alone do that?
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03:02:37 <CakeProphet> elliott: quiet with that nationalist dogma.
03:03:23 <CakeProphet> I only accept the sensationalism of American television news sources.
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03:13:06 <pikhq_> "Barack Hussein Commubama is going to rape your puppies and build the Twin Towers again just to bomb them!" --Fox News
03:13:36 <pikhq_> Actually, make that "Führer Hussein Commubama".
03:17:14 <CakeProphet> hmmm, so currently every expression produces a "result string" which is used in computations and side-effect operations.
03:17:29 <CakeProphet> Perhaps there should be a "result number" as well, to be used in numeric contexts.
03:21:06 <CakeProphet> before, the plan was to handle numbers as Perl does. Where the string "0" is treated as 0 when used in a numeric operation, but having a numeric result would allow operations to return both a capture string as well as number that signified something. a -> b would return a 1 if successful, and a 0 if not. * would return the summation of the numeric results of its operand. Thus (a -> b)* would return the number of successf
03:21:57 <CakeProphet> (a->b)+ would do the same, but fail if there were no substitions.
03:23:33 <CakeProphet> and the string result would be a concatenation of the replaced strings, which is probably less useful.
03:24:25 <Gregor> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.6.0/gcc/Push_002fPop-Macro-Pragmas.html#Push_002fPop-Macro-Pragmas // is CPP + this TC?
03:25:01 <elliott> cpp computation does not involve new defines at all.
03:25:06 <elliott> You can't loop those in any way, so yah.
03:25:29 <elliott> Apparently chaos-pp just uses "exponential expansion" or something btw, and so may not actually be TC
03:25:36 <elliott> I can buy that it's not TC though
03:26:11 <CakeProphet> hmmm... I need like... four different quote types.
03:31:47 <pikhq_> Unless you need it to nest.
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03:34:13 <CakeProphet> Actually I narrowed it down to two quote types again.
03:34:33 <monqy> why do you need so many quote types
03:34:39 <monqy> what's a quote type
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03:35:01 <CakeProphet> the problem was that both " and ' literals attempt matching on the input string, but there would be situations where you only want to use them for their string result and ignore any kind of matching behavior. But placing another operator before the quote fixes that.
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03:38:44 <CakeProphet> well, currently " performs interpolation of \ sequences, and ' produces a literal string. I could have interpolation on by default since it's not a huge deal, and have " being the matching literal and ' be the zero-width literal.
03:39:27 <CakeProphet> open_file 'foobar.txt' #example, you don't want 'foobar.txt' to attempt a match on the input string.
03:40:17 <elliott> cyclexa is cooler it has antitext
03:40:44 <CakeProphet> token:="foobar.txt"; token(token",")* #here, this is exactly what you want to happen.
03:42:21 <CakeProphet> elliott: I was actually thinking of "borrowing" (read: stealing) the antitext operator, but I don't really know why it would be useful in my case.
03:43:10 <elliott> that's just a sign that your version is boring >:)
03:43:46 <CakeProphet> yeah I'm not really going esoteric at this point.
03:44:01 <CakeProphet> it will be esoteric in that it's a somewhat sensible regular expression language.
03:46:13 <CakeProphet> The ; is somewhat clever. It's syntactic sugar that basically encloses everything before it up to the beginning of the line or the preceding ; on the same line in parentheses
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03:52:25 <elliott> Abelson: Well, I was a new graduate student. I said, “What the hell, I’m never going to get a chance to go sit in the president’s office.” So I wandered around to the president’s office and there were a whole bunch of people from Students for a Democratic Society sitting around on the floor. One of the people who was sitting around on the floor was somebody who I’d gone to high school with.
03:52:25 <elliott> And I said, “I’m a new graduate student. I’m looking for a job. What’s a good place to go work?” And he said, “Well, why don’t you go over to the Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. They do good things.” So I wandered around there for a little bit and talked to people, and that’s pretty much how I got started.
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03:53:18 <pikhq_> What a pile of improbable circumstances.
03:56:58 <CakeProphet> digit := [0-9]; number := digit+("."digit+)?; capturedvalue = parsenum number #note that this is where the actual matching occurs; capturedvalue = 1 <+> capturedvalue #not sure what the numeric operators should look like, or why I'm incrementing this number
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04:19:14 <elliott> https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2011-06-07-sony.markdown sony sure are dedicated
04:19:26 <elliott> https://github.com/SonyPS3/scedev haha, they didn't even remove it, just disabled it
04:20:00 <pikhq> "and promptly disclose to SCEA the identities and contact information corresponding to the account owners and/or users of your hosting services who posted the content identified herein."
04:20:11 <pikhq> They seem to not understand how a DMCA request works.
04:20:33 <pikhq> It's not a subpoena.
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04:43:16 <coppro> pikhq: I bet they understand
04:43:51 <pikhq> Never underestimate someone's stupidity.
04:44:50 <elliott> coppro: are you sure? one of the GitHub dmca notices specifies that they should use a /USENET cancellation notice/ to delete both github repositories and a file hosted on a generic file hosting service unrelated to github
04:45:47 <coppro> I think it's more likely they attempt to prey on the weak
04:46:19 <coppro> Content owners know that lots of sites will listen to takedown notices for all sorts of things that aren't copyright-infringing
04:46:40 <elliott> they published a counternotice, which is cool: https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2011-02-03-sony-counternotice.markdown
04:46:44 <coppro> or, more plainly, try harder than is necessary to cover their own assess
04:46:53 <elliott> http://help.github.com/dmca-takedown/ here is github's actual policy
04:47:24 <elliott> it's been more than ten days though
04:48:59 <elliott> it's plainly obvious that the repos don't actually violate Sony's copyright
04:49:16 <elliott> unfortunately, no company would set the policy "we'll honour dmca notices, unless we think they're wrong" :)
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05:06:26 <coppro> elliott: They'll follow the law
05:06:38 <coppro> there are plenty of companies that will say "you're misapplying the law"
05:07:03 <coppro> elliott: Also, bear in mind that it's not actual copyright her
05:07:08 <coppro> it's circumvention tools
05:07:11 <coppro> which are covered also
05:07:23 <coppro> I think Sony is actually in the right, from a legal perspective
05:07:53 <pikhq> *Legally*, they can actually request a DMCA takedown and have it complied with in this case, yeah.
05:08:01 <coppro> elliott: have you read the paper about optimal copyright term, by chance?
05:08:03 <pikhq> They just overstepped on it.
05:08:11 <pikhq> coppro: How many months is it?
05:08:16 <elliott> coppro: no, but i don't feel like doing so
05:08:27 <coppro> pikhq: He gives a set of variables that it would depend on
05:08:29 <elliott> discussions about copyright just make me slit my throat and drain all my blood out
05:08:38 <elliott> i don't even have an inkling of care left
05:08:48 <pikhq> elliott: How very cynical of you.
05:08:55 <pikhq> elliott: You should do that to lawyers.
05:09:10 <elliott> WE'LL FIND OUT TOMORROW!!!!!!!
05:09:32 <coppro> pikhq: he sets generous ranges of values; within those ranges, the median is 15ish years
05:10:28 <pikhq> coppro: So, what you mean is that we had it right in the year 1800?
05:10:29 <coppro> looks like a gamma distribution
05:10:44 <coppro> pikhq: Possibly not; the societal variables can change over time
05:11:11 <coppro> http://rufuspollock.org/economics/papers/optimal_copyright_term.pdf
05:11:12 <pikhq> It was, uh, 17 years, I think, then.
05:11:27 <elliott> thx jerk i just clicked that now
05:11:32 <elliott> iff it snot set in latex ill close i- fuck
05:11:41 <elliott> oh the linespacing is way too high
05:14:22 <pikhq> Yeah, jeeze, was it written for some moron convinced that 1 inch margins, double spaced is how you do papers?
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05:14:41 <elliott> whine whine whine whine (im allowed im tired)
05:14:47 <CakeProphet> wow tcl is probably the worst language I've ever seen.
05:14:57 <elliott> CakeProphet: that's because you don't understand it
05:15:09 <elliott> it's not something i'd want to use, but it occupies a corner.
05:15:21 <pikhq> You almost certainly don't.
05:15:27 <elliott> CakeProphet: you should _really_ read http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html
05:15:37 <elliott> you don't have to like tcl, but it's something to respect
05:16:10 <elliott> (and http://antirez.com/page/picol.html is an interesting followup (only a followup, don't read it before) in that it shows that tcl is as minimal as Lisp)
05:16:39 <pikhq> Interesting. Its summation of concepts is a longer version of the dodecalogue.
05:17:27 <pikhq> AKA "the semantics of Tcl, in a short man page".
05:17:27 <elliott> CakeProphet: basically: lisp : lists :: tcl : strings, except that tcl actually builds data structures out of strings (a list is just a certain type of string; tcl code is a list (therefore a string), {} is just an uninterpolated string literal)
05:17:31 <elliott> CakeProphet: but really: read http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html.
05:19:07 <pikhq> I shall note here that PEBBLE is Tcl with a different command set.
05:19:17 <CakeProphet> elliott: yeah, so I read that, and I'm pretty sure tcl is still a bad language.
05:19:29 <elliott> CakeProphet: whoops: look at that, you didn't read it, you at most skimmed it.
05:19:44 <elliott> i know this because i have read it multiple times and you did it about ten times as fast as anyone can humanly read that and actually understand it.
05:19:53 <elliott> CakeProphet: yes, obviously it is merely a collection of facts
05:20:05 <elliott> obviously you can go ahead and ignore the bits you already "know" because it is not trying to make any sort of point
05:20:26 <elliott> oh, whatever, you're an idiot, i'm grumpy, and i should go to bed. no wait i'll turn over to the plof tab and mock Gregor for being the worst gc coder evarrr
05:21:15 <CakeProphet> I don't need someone to make points for me. I skipped most of the section explaining the language itself because I already knew how the language worked, and can derive my own opinions on that.
05:21:34 <pikhq> The language itself is much more subtle than you think.
05:21:41 <elliott> <cakeprophet> this language goes through perl's features in a different way to normal
05:21:44 <elliott> <cakeprophet> and i think makes the case for perl
05:21:50 <elliott> I SKIPPED ALL THAT I KNOW HOW LISTS WORK LOL
05:21:59 <elliott> <cakeprophet> um if you read it properly you might think differently
05:22:07 <elliott> I DONT NEED U IM PUNK I CAN THINK FORE MYSELF
05:22:19 <elliott> it's an example of a language i know you like
05:22:31 <CakeProphet> right, which doesn't suck. There's the key difference.
05:22:36 <elliott> but, you have clearly made the foregone conclusion that tcl sucks
05:22:41 <elliott> and nothing that can be presented will change your mind
05:22:44 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Okay, if you know how Tcl actually works, then tell me: what are the core bits of Tcl?
05:22:47 <elliott> because you will view it as a collection of facts
05:22:53 <elliott> and ignore them and "derive your opinions from them"
05:23:03 <elliott> so basically this is just an excuse to tell us that you hate tcl and hope we agree
05:23:09 <elliott> is stupid from a perspective of actually wanting to learn anything
05:23:16 <elliott> im switching the tab back again
05:23:17 <CakeProphet> pikhq: the core bits? you mean how it works internally? I have no idea. How it works: lists and commands? I don't know what you're asking.
05:23:17 <pikhq> I'll give you a hint: the entirety of Tcl is described in like 2 pages.
05:23:39 <pikhq> CakeProphet: What's the core bits of its semantics.
05:23:42 <elliott> CakeProphet: you can only understand lisp by knowing how you implement it. you can only understand forth by knowing how you implement.
05:23:51 <elliott> fill in the blanks. wait i just showed that this was completely pointless why am i talking
05:25:59 <CakeProphet> pikhq: Well tcl uses strings for about everything. But for structure it uses lists and commands (which can roughly be the same thing). Probably not what you were looking for, I don't care.
05:26:28 <elliott> im changing the topic to the homestuck update now
05:26:31 <elliott> hahaha hussie really went there
05:26:47 <elliott> its just a list of "command arg ...", that's even simpler than Haskell
05:26:56 <elliott> [x] runs x, then interpolates the result in; that's a feature of strings
05:27:09 <elliott> just the latter doesn't interpolate
05:27:13 <elliott> CakeProphet: but there /is/ no syntax
05:27:25 <pikhq> It's at least as syntaxless as Lisp.
05:27:36 <elliott> yeah, but its practically nonexistent
05:27:43 <elliott> Tcl has less syntax than /Perl string literals/
05:27:48 <elliott> and, since Tcl is basically one big string literal
05:27:52 <elliott> that's actually meaningful
05:28:23 <pikhq> elliott: I think he might be *objecting* to simple syntax.
05:28:24 <CakeProphet> this has nothing to do with the fact that I still don't like tcl's syntax. You are wasting your time by trying to demonstrate how simple or nonexistent it is.
05:28:34 <pikhq> CakeProphet: What don't you like about it?
05:28:59 <elliott> can i just sit here and quietly lol at someone who likes perl complaining about superficial syntax details
05:29:17 <pikhq> Wait, you like Perl?
05:29:46 <Sgeo> elliott, is Hussie working on EOA5?
05:29:52 <pikhq> The least aesthetic language?
05:29:52 <Sgeo> I should be asleep right now
05:30:01 <elliott> Sgeo: i dont know let me get out my psychic goggles
05:30:05 <CakeProphet> Haskell, bash, Python is kind of okay but I'm starting to like it less. C is fine but slightly fucked up.
05:30:06 <elliott> Sgeo: have you seen the update anyway
05:30:11 <Sgeo> No, just noticed it now
05:30:15 <elliott> "Haskell, bash" worst way to start a list
05:30:28 <elliott> an alternating list of good things and bad things
05:30:55 <pikhq> I can see why you dislike Tcl, at least.
05:31:00 <pikhq> You have no taste.
05:31:42 <elliott> ATTN EVERY DINOSAUR COMIC FANS
05:31:43 <elliott> http://local-static4.forum-files.fobby.net/forum_attachments/0027/5004/DinosaurComicsTheme.mp3
05:31:48 <elliott> pikhq: Gregor: all good people:
05:31:56 <pikhq> About the best that can be said for Perl and bash is that you can get shit done with them.
05:32:09 <pikhq> Which, incidentally, is the only reason they survive.
05:32:30 <CakeProphet> pikhq: yes that is what I like about them.
05:32:43 <pikhq> You like the ugly hackishness?
05:32:59 <elliott> pikhq: you are doing something that isn't listening to the dinosaur comics theme
05:33:24 <pikhq> Sigels are inherently ugly.
05:33:33 <CakeProphet> honestly I don't see "oh no there's symbols everywhere" as ugly.
05:34:35 <pikhq> You are everything that is wrong with computers. We're done.
05:34:51 <elliott> pikhq: listen to the fucking dinosaur comics theme or die a horrible death
05:35:03 <CakeProphet> I like two different qualities in languages. a) it is useful and easy to get shit done with b) it's pure or elegant. tcl is neither of those.
05:35:15 <pikhq> What's not pure or elegant about Tcl?
05:35:19 <pikhq> elliott: I don't like to stop albums halfway through.
05:35:30 <elliott> pikhq: dude this is the DINOSAUR COMICS THEME.
05:35:34 <elliott> it has RYAN NORTH'S APPROVAL HIMSELF.
05:35:35 <pikhq> elliott: It's queued.
05:35:41 <elliott> this would be worth stopping CHILDBIRTH for, pikhq.
05:35:55 <elliott> i would abandon my currently-being-born baby to listen to this.
05:37:06 <CakeProphet> pikhq: I find it amazing that you can say that I'm "everything that is wrong with computers" from such a minor difference in opinion about programming languages.
05:37:35 <elliott> hash esoteric always one hundred percent and literal about every statement
05:38:23 <pikhq> Yup. We are never over the top or exaggerated. Only perfectly literal about every statement.
05:38:50 <elliott> its funny because if i said youre all stupid terrible idiots i would actually be being perfectly sincere :D
05:39:09 <CakeProphet> yes, more often than not things are taken literally in here.
05:39:14 <pikhq> BTW, picol is pretty neat.
05:39:29 <elliott> i wonder what you could actually remove from tcl, as far as minimalism goes
05:39:36 <elliott> dollar sign is obviously a relatively minor convenience
05:39:50 <elliott> "" could go, you can just use {} and manual splicing
05:40:00 <pikhq> You could remove {*}.
05:40:07 <elliott> you have [] at top level and everything evaluated
05:40:10 <pikhq> Which itself was only added in 8.5.
05:40:18 <elliott> full list of things: words, [], {}
05:40:24 <elliott> oh you can remove global variables too
05:40:27 <elliott> just pass everything around
05:40:45 <elliott> then change {} into () and you have weirdo lisp
05:44:16 <pikhq> CakeProphet: http://antirez.com/picol/picol.c.txt What's not elegant about this?
05:44:49 -!- mycroftiv has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:45:50 <CakeProphet> pikhq: that is not tcl code. That is an interpreter for tcl.
05:46:06 <pikhq> And I'd consider that a pretty much full implementation, seeing as to get an interpreter of Tcl 8.4 out of that you'd only need to implement more commands.
05:46:06 -!- mycroftiv has joined.
05:47:07 <elliott> CakeProphet: everything you are saying is pointing towards tcl being something you respect or admire for its simplicity and elegance of implementation rather than actually use
05:47:22 <elliott> despite this you are only referring to these qualities in mocking terms which is just totally inconsistent if you like any other language like that
05:48:26 <pikhq> Hmm. Actually, it's missing the semantics of unknown; you'd need a couple of lines in picolEval for that.
05:48:34 <CakeProphet> uh, not really. But yes, I do respect that it's a simple language. But that's it. I still think it sucks to actually write tcl code.
05:48:53 <elliott> CakeProphet: "I like two different qualities in languages. a) it is useful and easy to get shit done with b) it's pure or elegant."
05:48:58 <elliott> sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
05:49:09 <pikhq> Yeah, {*} would need a little bit of work in the parser.
05:49:10 <CakeProphet> elliott: but I never specfically mentioned tcl being pure or elegant.
05:49:14 <elliott> nobody's saying you should think tcl is nice to code in, just that if you really hate it on every possible level, you probably just don't understand it at all.
05:49:17 <CakeProphet> nor do I think it's pure... or elegant. Just simple.
05:49:25 <pikhq> What's not pure or elegant about it?
05:49:35 <elliott> CakeProphet: no, but <CakeProphet> cool, so it's easy to parse. is dismissing something that is actually a - oh fuck this you're an idiot have i mentioned
05:49:39 <elliott> im going to go ask Gregor if his gc is still segfaulting
05:49:58 <pikhq> I also think it's occasionally nice to code in, but I admit, it has some rough spots.
05:50:01 <CakeProphet> pikhq: that is a difficult question to answer. :P
05:51:12 <CakeProphet> to me those words imply a kind of mathematical beauty. I think tcl lacks that.
05:51:34 <pikhq> http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TclCmd/Tcl.htm That's the whole of Tcl.
05:52:24 <pikhq> It's got a man page the size of cat's.
06:05:14 <CakeProphet> at least when you guys bash Perl, I actually know you've used it to some extent.
06:05:29 -!- Lymia has joined.
06:06:18 <pikhq> Yes, I actually have personal experience to back my opinion of the language.
06:06:36 <pikhq> Which... Actually can't be said of most critics of most languages, really.
06:07:09 <elliott> every time you want to complain about a language
06:07:12 <elliott> make a new esolang instead
06:07:49 <pikhq> elliott: I'd probably have written the entire esolangs wiki by now.
06:08:30 <CakeProphet> pikhq: I admit Perl would be horrible if you were working with someone elses horribly designed code in some kind of decently large project.
06:08:52 <CakeProphet> but that never happens for me, so that's why I like using it.
06:09:22 <CakeProphet> and the above statement is true of most languages.
06:09:28 <elliott> http://grasptheuniverse.com/random/free-fall-from-space/
06:09:33 <elliott> $pecial Fuck 2 TuNiSian ministry of justice & defence & interior
06:09:54 <pikhq> If you're working with other people's horribly designed code, all languages suck, and we should exterminate humanity.
06:12:50 -!- ray24 has joined.
06:13:08 <elliott> ray24: where did you put the earlier raws
06:16:20 <Gregor> So lesse, on my laptop, which is two-core so essentially Java can't do parallel GCs, my GC is consistently faster now.
06:16:23 <Gregor> Even in the default branch.
06:16:31 <Gregor> On my home computer (4-core) it's a tossup.
06:16:36 <Gregor> And on my work machine, it wins.
06:16:44 <Gregor> So ... yeah, parallel collection :P
06:17:45 <elliott> Gregor: Faster... than... Java?
06:17:59 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:18:00 <pikhq> Space Gregor is a programmer from SPACE
06:18:02 <ray24> I don't know. I've been pirating everything off the internet
06:18:11 <ray24> FEels good to not pay a dime for anything!
06:18:34 -!- elliott has joined.
06:18:43 <elliott> ray24: are you trying to pirate things here
06:18:56 <ray24> I'm trying to pirate everything that I think is good
06:19:30 <elliott> do you know what this channel is about
06:20:09 <elliott> this is an important question to ask ray24
06:20:17 <ray24> You should think about it
06:20:35 <ray24> what if I don't know the answer
06:20:47 <ray24> what if I can't guess
06:21:08 <ray24> what if I can't leave
06:21:25 <elliott> this channel is about programming btw
06:21:33 <ray24> Yeah what do you program
06:21:40 <elliott> esoteric programming languages, see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
06:21:44 <elliott> sorry you got too boring to mislead :(
06:21:59 <ray24> how come a programming channel have less than 50 people
06:22:33 <elliott> we're also really rude and horrible to newbies. well ok i am
06:22:44 <CakeProphet> we're the cool internet cabal that everyone talks about.
06:22:48 <ray24> You've been pretty nice and generous in your response
06:23:09 <elliott> yeah i dunno what is up with me
06:23:22 <ray24> Maybe you're programming in the wrong language, iono
06:23:42 <elliott> who says i'm only programming in one
06:24:32 <ray24> Anyways, I got to loot more stuff
06:24:34 <elliott> so hey how did you find this place anyway
06:24:38 <elliott> i simply don't believe anyone actually looks at /list
06:24:51 <ray24> I just randomly load the channel list and clicked
06:25:16 <elliott> have fun with your copyright infringement :P
06:27:07 <coppro> ray24: where are you from?
06:27:22 <CakeProphet> > cross = liftM2 (,) in cross [1..10] [1..10]
06:27:23 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `='
06:27:28 <CakeProphet> > let cross = liftM2 (,) in cross [1..10] [1..10]
06:27:29 <lambdabot> [(1,1),(1,2),(1,3),(1,4),(1,5),(1,6),(1,7),(1,8),(1,9),(1,10),(2,1),(2,2),(...
06:27:34 <elliott> coppro: are you asking like physical location
06:27:49 <coppro> elliott: no I wanted to know if he's from DARPANET
06:28:07 <elliott> ray24: total child porn pirate warez channel this
06:28:20 <elliott> coppro: * [ray24] (~ray24@adsl-70-231-243-95.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net): ray24
06:28:24 <elliott> INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF, we're safe
06:28:37 <coppro> elliott: I can't read hostnames and am lazy
06:28:47 <ray24> so why do you look up people's IP
06:28:53 <elliott> ~ray24@spying.on.you.darpa.gov
06:28:56 <elliott> ray24: its hardly looking up
06:29:06 <elliott> gives you foo's realname field, username field, hostname
06:29:06 <ray24> what is there to gain for you?
06:29:13 <elliott> lol its a feature of irc dude
06:29:14 <coppro> ray24: I want to know where you are :D
06:29:18 <elliott> it shows channels you have in common
06:29:20 <ray24> Why do you want to know where I am
06:29:22 <elliott> what their realname is filled out to be
06:29:23 <coppro> because you're hot and I want to stalk you
06:29:32 <elliott> often i can remember someone from the wiki if i see their realname
06:29:37 <elliott> your ip is public when you join irc
06:29:43 <elliott> * ray24 (~ray24@adsl-70-231-243-95.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #esoteric
06:29:47 <elliott> i saw it as soon as you entered the channel, everyone did
06:30:14 <elliott> CakeProphet: ray24 evidently does :D
06:30:33 <elliott> ray24: hey, how's life in san francisco?
06:30:43 <ray24> yeah well.. I'm not in SF
06:30:50 <elliott> well your ip thinks you are.
06:30:56 <ray24> so what step did you take to arrive at that answer?
06:30:59 <elliott> you're in california anyway
06:31:06 <coppro> elliott: damn, beat me to it
06:31:08 <elliott> ray24: google "geo ip" -> click first result -> paste in -> hit enter
06:31:17 <elliott> took like three seconds and you were freaking out so i figured it might provide some amusement
06:31:55 <pikhq> Often times you don't even really need to bother, though.
06:32:08 <ray24> It's pretty inaccurate
06:32:13 <ray24> I'm not even close to SF
06:32:36 <ray24> You'll never find me
06:33:06 <elliott> ray24: oh, you've fallen right into our trap.
06:33:09 <elliott> admitting your rampant piracy like that.
06:33:13 <elliott> we are coming to cease your possessions.
06:33:17 <elliott> coppro: initiate operation 9terra
06:33:34 <EgoBot> perl $_=<>;tr/!-~/P-~!-O/;print
06:33:36 <ray24> ^_^ I keep all my pirated stuff on an external drive
06:33:37 <elliott> ray24: We will be with you within the hour.
06:33:38 -!- elliott has left ("xp0.FOUR/xy;initiate;procedure").
06:34:06 <pikhq> http://thetegu.com/member.php?1688-Ray24 Any relation?
06:34:24 <ray24> dude you guys are weird
06:34:28 -!- elliott has joined.
06:34:34 <pikhq> God damned generic nicks.
06:34:40 <elliott> ray24: you'd better evacuate your wife and kids.
06:34:45 <elliott> your house is about to disappear.
06:34:51 <pikhq> Why can't people be easy to Google?
06:35:02 <pikhq> coppro: Yours is easy to Google.
06:35:04 <CakeProphet> it is very easy to trace my online identity since no one else uses this screen name.
06:35:10 <elliott> maybe hes twenty four years old
06:35:13 <coppro> pikhq: no, I mean you hit Google. That hurts.
06:35:35 <elliott> ray24: http://ray24.livejournal.com/profile
06:35:38 <elliott> ray24: you totally are in sanfran.
06:35:45 <coppro> operation 9terra phase 2 initiate
06:35:56 <ray24> lol... that's not me
06:35:57 -!- coppro has left.
06:36:03 <elliott> Enjoying Taekwondo, deadman?
06:36:07 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving").
06:36:36 -!- scshunt has joined.
06:36:36 <CakeProphet> !rot47 computer: initiate tracking programs. find target 542049. confiscate kids and hold them for ransom.
06:36:37 <EgoBot> 4@>AFE6Ci :?:E:2E6 EC24<:?8 AC@8C2>D] 7:?5 E2C86E dca_ch] 4@?7:D42E6 <:5D 2?5 9@=5 E96> 7@C C2?D@>]
06:36:47 -!- ray24 has left ("Leaving").
06:37:02 -!- coppro has joined.
06:37:08 <coppro> operation 9terra: successful
06:37:13 -!- elliott has joined.
06:37:18 <pikhq> Well, that was nicely done.
06:37:19 -!- scshunt has left.
06:37:31 <pikhq> And now he's probably freaked out by the power of Google.
06:38:07 <coppro> reading the logs, I have no fucking clue what just happened
06:38:07 <elliott> pikhq: except we found nothing :F
06:38:13 <elliott> coppro: seems to not include notices
06:38:23 <CakeProphet> elliott: I figured a lot of scary symbols would scare him.
06:38:37 <elliott> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/11.06.09 this does
06:38:45 <pikhq> BTW, coppro, dang you have a large Internet presence.
06:39:01 <elliott> least creepy thing to say ever
06:39:25 <pikhq> Gregor has a pretty odd one, though.
06:39:30 <coppro> pikhq: it's like a chronicle of my life, the various fora I've been to and stuff
06:39:48 <pikhq> https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=Gregor+Richards&hl=en&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CbzxTYGMG4uu0AHcl5XdCw&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=784 Check out a GIS.
06:40:12 <pikhq> It's like a blend of 5 different people.
06:40:34 <pikhq> elliott: Stop what, putting nicknames or real names into Google?
06:41:27 <pikhq> I'll Google *you* next. :P
06:41:30 <coppro> pikhq: searching my full name gives little though, except for the math society where the names are loaded from the university database and I haven't bothered asking them to take my middle names out
06:41:36 <pikhq> "Surprisingly", not helpful.
06:42:14 <coppro> I do love how hard it is to find me on Google if you don't know either of my common nicknames though
06:42:47 <elliott> which i made up as a demonstration for the log
06:43:13 <elliott> yeah i would never do something that stupid for a joke on irc
06:44:31 * pikhq wonders how much stuff is actually tied to his real name...
06:44:38 <elliott> CakeProphet: you should say your real name now so that google hears this.
06:45:17 <pikhq> I'm apparently still staff at Tufts.
06:45:33 <coppro> welcome to the internet
06:46:05 <elliott> pikhq: was that when you were like three years old
06:46:28 <pikhq> No, but it was over a year ago.
06:46:48 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot47 deleted.
06:46:49 <CakeProphet> !addinterp rot47 perl print<>=~tr/!-~/P-~!-O/
06:46:49 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot47 installed.
06:46:57 <EgoBot> Can't modify <HANDLE> in transliteration (tr///) at /tmp/input.8441 line 1, at EOF
06:47:40 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot47 deleted.
06:47:45 <CakeProphet> !addinterp rot47 perl $_=<>;tr/!-~/P-~!-O/;print
06:47:46 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot47 installed.
06:49:07 <elliott> pikhq: so when you were two then
06:50:40 <Lymia> !addinterp rot32 sh cat
06:50:40 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot32 installed.
06:50:43 <Lymia> !addinterp rot32 cat
06:50:44 <EgoBot> There is already an interpreter for rot32!
06:50:46 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot32 deleted.
06:50:49 <Lymia> !addinterp rot32 cat
06:50:50 <EgoBot> Interpreter cat does not exist!
06:50:54 <elliott> CakeProphet: the unix command, yes.
06:50:59 <Lymia> !addinterp rot32 sh cat
06:50:59 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot32 installed.
06:51:23 <CakeProphet> Lymia: ...you have gotten rid of the original rot32. That will take years to recode.
06:51:37 <Lymia> Rot32 is the application of rot16 twice.
06:52:00 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot32 deleted.
06:52:07 <Lymia> !addinterp rot52 sh cat
06:52:07 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot52 installed.
06:53:08 <Lymia> !addinterp rot26 sh cat
06:53:09 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot26 installed.
06:53:36 <EgoBot> .,23.,24998!@#*!@#$*!@#%
06:53:53 <CakeProphet> okay, so it leaves those characters alone.
06:54:54 <CakeProphet> !rot47 !@#)*#*)!@#*!@)#*!)@@$*!)@#*)!@#*!)@$&!@)#$&!@%)!@#
06:54:54 <EgoBot> PoRXYRYXPoRYPoXRYPXooSYPXoRYXPoRYPXoSUPoXRSUPoTXPoR
06:55:50 <pikhq> I think from Google results, I can conclude that I am a time traveller.
06:57:34 <coppro> please go back in time three days and tell George Histenton not to do it
06:58:18 <elliott> im hoping something horrible that will make this entire thread of conversation really awkawrd
06:58:48 <coppro> how the fuck should I know?
06:58:59 <elliott> i dont actually know who George Histenton is
06:59:27 <pikhq> coppro: I'm afraid I have yet to obtain my time machine.
06:59:28 <elliott> lets just say he did a huge school shooting then jumped off a building near where you are, that should be enough to make this very awkward
06:59:54 <pikhq> Though I could hit up Cambridge and see my grave.
06:59:56 <coppro> pikhq: the logs will be available then
07:00:14 <coppro> pikhq: What if you're a time lord?
07:01:12 <pikhq> Then that would explain the name change I saw.
07:01:52 <pikhq> Actually, no, no it wouldn't.
07:02:23 <elliott> eight am, i should sleep, i should sleep, i sh
07:06:14 <elliott> http://jon.io/ this is the worst fucking webpage to ever exist augh
07:08:01 <elliott> monqy: do you feel the un-zepto terribleness of it
07:08:10 <elliott> "Built using Clojure and MailChimp."
07:08:12 <elliott> two times least zepto webpage
07:08:21 <elliott> WHY ARE THE FUCKING LOGOS FLOATING
07:08:31 <pikhq> Seems to fail with noscript.
07:08:32 <monqy> I actually forgot about zepto
07:08:49 <elliott> monqy: its the best adjective and vapourware
07:08:51 <monqy> why are there logos at all anyhow
07:08:51 <pikhq> OH GOD THE UNZEPTO
07:09:06 <elliott> is that an actual metaphor for like
07:09:14 <monqy> I thought it was actually
07:09:29 <elliott> i hate startsups i fucking hate startups everyone in a startup should die
07:09:30 <monqy> I thought that's why you aughed. it's why I aughed at least.
07:09:34 <pikhq> I hereby ban them from HTML.
07:09:38 <CakeProphet> elliott: nothing describes the internet better than a cloud, obviously.
07:09:50 <elliott> ok thats been my two minutes hate i cant stand to have this page open any longer
07:09:54 <pikhq> It's absolutely terrible without Javascript.
07:10:13 <elliott> cant possibly worse than it with javascript
07:10:14 <pikhq> It's got the header, a few *pages* of whitespace, and then the content.
07:10:25 <elliott> better, the logos don't move
07:10:34 <pikhq> The logos don't exist.
07:10:46 <pikhq> Though I think the code for them is the whitespace.
07:10:56 <CakeProphet> pikhq: I don't think you can comfortably browse most websites anymore without Javascript.
07:11:28 <pikhq> CakeProphet: I use Noscript extensively.
07:12:00 <pikhq> It goes a long, long way to making random websites tolerable.
07:17:29 <elliott> WOW LOOK AT THIS IN MERE SECONDS I AM GOING TO SLEEP (LIES)
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07:27:11 <CakeProphet> What was the first language to pass arguments by key-value pairs?
07:28:24 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Named_parameter <-- your mom, apparently
07:35:39 <coppro> oh god it's only after midnight
07:41:00 <pikhq> Or I could listen to Queen.
07:41:31 <pikhq> Only one of those two options is awesome in audible form.
07:42:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Ahahah foolish Americans it is morning in the civilised world.
07:42:56 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
07:43:42 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: elliott is also complaining about how he needs to sleep.
07:44:11 <pikhq> Admittedly, elliott defies your dormal norms.
07:46:17 <pikhq> Also, it is definitely "morning" here, for certain definitions of "morning".
07:47:22 <pikhq> Yeaaah, that's a terrible definition of morning.
07:47:41 <pikhq> Seeing as my first meal of the day is generally lunch.
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07:49:35 <Phantom_Hoover> It's morning as in it's nearly 9 o'clock what more do you want from a morning.
07:52:13 <coppro> pikhq: Sleep is for the weak
07:52:20 <coppro> and those who don't need to be in a cab in 5 hours
07:53:21 <coppro> so I can catch the airplane 2 hours 18 minutes later
07:53:33 <coppro> also 5 hours 7 minutes
07:54:00 <pikhq> Baaah, specific yet non-specific answers!
07:54:40 <pikhq> I'm not sure it'd be possible for me to catch a cab.
07:54:49 <coppro> pikhq: I was referring to me
07:54:59 <pikhq> coppro: Yes, I know.
07:59:11 <augur> a targis? what? huh
07:59:50 <coppro> pikhq: This could all be solved, however, by you getting a TARDIS at some point in your future, and taking me where I need to go
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08:02:39 <pikhq> coppro: Why yes, yes it would. How convenient that I will at some point have one.
08:03:02 <pikhq> As we can conclude by my death being in the 1700s.
08:06:18 <coppro> I willen on-not having-been a good game of timey wimey ball in ages.
08:07:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Sorry Doctor Who's time-travel system is not all that complex.
08:07:28 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm fairly sure it can be modelled accurately simply by adding a second time dimension.
08:08:35 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Doctor Who does not have a single time travel system.
08:08:49 <pikhq> It has whatever time travel system is most convenient at the time to the writers, near as I can tell.
08:08:53 <pikhq> Hence the timey wimey ball.
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08:10:39 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, doesn't it essentially come down to "you can change the past"?
08:10:47 <pikhq> Except when you can't.
08:10:54 <coppro> And when other things happen
08:11:08 <Phantom_Hoover> It's never been an essential physical law that you can't, it's just been that Bad Things happen when you do.
08:11:35 <coppro> We're talking about a series where, at one point, the entire universe ceased to ever have existed, except Earth and an explosion. But Earth existed and was fully-formed and had a human civilization despite.
08:12:09 <pikhq> And time demons destroy everything when you change the past wrong.
08:12:28 <pikhq> Also, the main character has never been born.
08:13:03 <coppro> And at various points, there are stable time loops.
08:13:16 <pikhq> Oh, yeah, and the canonical reason for him not preventing Hitler is that it's physically impossible, IIRC.
08:13:45 <pikhq> Remember, this is a series which has aired for decades.
08:13:53 <pikhq> And has time travel as its basic premise.
08:13:59 <coppro> pikhq: Actually, the next episode is entitled "Let's Kill Hitler"
08:14:08 <pikhq> And has not always had the best writing.
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08:14:32 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: I should add that "timey wimey" is canonical
08:15:12 <pikhq> Pretty much the only way to handle Doctor Who time travel is to shut up and enjoy the show. :P
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08:15:46 <coppro> also the part where nothing is every truly erased from history
08:16:02 <coppro> (why hasn't the doctor tried to use this to get gallifrey back?)
08:16:18 <Phantom_Hoover> <pikhq> Pretty much the only way to handle Doctor Who time travel is to shut up and enjoy the show. :P
08:16:33 <Phantom_Hoover> I gave up on enjoying it around the time River Song became a semi-regular character.
08:16:39 <coppro> Incidentally, that's one of my favorite lines
08:16:56 <coppro> <House> Fear me, I have killed hundreds of Time Lords.
08:17:08 <coppro> <The Doctor> Fear me, I killed all of them.
08:18:05 <pikhq> coppro: Because the Doctor does not want Gallifrey back. Indeed, in The End of Time (recent-ish), he stopped the return of the Time Lords.
08:19:07 <pikhq> (note: written by Russel T Davies, who is one corny writer)
08:19:21 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: character named House
08:19:45 <coppro> pikhq: How much have you seen total of the series?
08:20:20 <pikhq> coppro: Random bits of the 4th, large chunk of 9th and 10th, few episodes of the 11th.
08:20:44 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: I was being generous.
08:22:04 <pikhq> And reincarnating the series.
08:23:57 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: Here's another one
08:24:16 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: Doctor goes back in time and changes the past concurrently with the present, Back to the Future style
08:26:23 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, yes, but he then decided that he should be able to write for it.
08:26:46 <pikhq> I suppose it does even out.
08:48:45 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: River's development is pretty good in my opinion, but I haven't seen pre-11th
08:57:22 <coppro> pikhq: The 11th has shown quite a bit of remorse and jumped several times at the thought of another Time Lord.. perhaps it's due to the regeneration?
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17:10:23 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=volume+of+atlantic+ocean+*+butter+density
17:12:39 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/hvugz/is_it_true_that_the_seconds_between_lightning/c1ywftn
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17:16:11 <olsner> 42 atlantic oceans of butter equal 1 pluto
17:16:56 <Phantom_Hoover> I started writing that sentence and then realised that I had no idea how to terminate it in a non-Yoda way.
17:19:05 <olsner> are all your arrow keys, backspace and home broken? does your IRC client not have some kind of line editor?
17:19:19 <Phantom_Hoover> It does, but I couldn't be bothered rewriting the sentence.
17:20:51 <olsner> overthinking I am not, I feel
17:22:01 <Sgeo> .....use tape bound.....
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18:38:16 <zzo38> Do you like Charities for poor people and monsters with names starting with "A"?
18:42:17 <zzo38> If you are making a program that, in UNIX, uses SIGUSR1 to interrupt some loops (by setting flags, etc), how can you do similar things in Windows?
18:42:41 <pikhq_> Well, would you look at that. New version of the Haskell Platform in Debian this morning.
18:47:21 <pikhq_> Been in Sid for a while.
18:50:40 <Phantom_Hoover> http://publications.csail.mit.edu/lcs/pubs/pdf/MIT-LCS-TR-615.pdf
18:52:02 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Text looks like badly on my computer
18:54:57 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: :)
18:55:41 <augur> check out my response to the comment :)
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19:02:41 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: what do you mean
19:03:22 <augur> yes but whats the question
19:03:23 <Sgeo> Someone mentioned Boltzmann brains in here/
19:04:40 <zzo38> The half black/color stars of anarchism are also mentioned on Wikipedia.
19:04:53 <zzo38> The color half indicates different categories of anarchism.
19:05:03 <augur> oh, the question is what do they mean?
19:05:21 <augur> sorry, i wasn't sure what you were asking
19:05:32 <augur> i was half tempted to respond "whats up is we like them!"
19:05:39 <zzo38> Red=communism Yellow=capitalism Green=naturalism White=pacifist
19:05:50 <Phantom_Hoover> @tell elliott BtW, that CA paper has a lot about conservative CAs. There are no new ideas under the sun.
19:06:14 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: theres a link in the sidebar
19:06:20 <augur> that explains the stars
19:06:22 <Sgeo> Maybe I shouldn't bother to make my language statically typed. I mean, LSL is statically typed, but there's a glaring type hole
19:06:51 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.reddit.com/help/faqs/Anarchism#WhatarethosefunkystariconsnexttosomenamesandhowcanIgetone
19:06:58 <Sgeo> "type hole". What a technical sounding term
19:07:57 <augur> Sgeo: sounds like a hole/shed in a type
19:08:03 <augur> as opposed to a lacuna
19:08:12 <zzo38> What is "type hole"?
19:08:40 <augur> Sgeo: it means hole
19:09:01 <augur> but usually people use it to mean when something is missing
19:09:03 <Sgeo> zzo38, well, llList2String([5], 0) compiles
19:09:40 <Sgeo> Lists are heterogeneous in a statically typed environment.
19:09:44 <Gregor> void ***writing_garbage_collectors_is_fun
19:11:22 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: s'at explain things for you?
19:11:44 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: those arent all there is too!
19:11:50 * Phantom_Hoover wonders how the insufferability differs between groups.
19:11:51 <augur> those are just some main tendencies
19:12:03 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: everyone hates anarcho-capitalists
19:12:15 <augur> and a bunch of people hate anarcho-primitivists
19:12:32 <augur> everyone hates Hakim Bey but thats a separate issue
19:12:40 <augur> and other than that people generally get along
19:16:00 <zzo38> I don't even know what llList2String([5], 0) is supposed to mean
19:17:06 <Sgeo> zzo38, 0th element from the list [5] assuming (wrongly) that it's a string
19:19:41 <pikhq_> Gregor: I think soon you'll have more *s than Gs.
19:22:20 <zzo38> I have a book it describes a few things about garbage collection, including mark/sweep, and some others
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19:57:37 <oerjan> <zzo38> Do you like Charities for poor people and monsters with names starting with "A"?
19:58:25 <oerjan> hey vampires and zombies want charity too! preferably in the form of blood and brains
20:01:38 <oerjan> <Sgeo> Lists are heterogeneous in a statically typed environment.
20:01:48 <oerjan> well not in haskell...
20:02:04 <Sgeo> oerjan, I was referring specifically to the environment of LSL
20:02:29 <oerjan> ic. same as Java without generics, perhaps?
20:02:48 <copumpkin> oerjan: I was thinking, the knapsack problem might be better for our NP-complete syntax
20:03:46 <Sgeo> Hmm. I'm not familiar with how Java deals
20:04:19 <oerjan> Sgeo: basically before generics, your container types would just contain Objects, i think (which they still do _internally_)
20:04:34 <oerjan> where Object is the superclass of every other class
20:04:59 <Sgeo> There is no universal superclass in LSL
20:05:05 <oerjan> although _not_ of some primitive types such as int iirc
20:05:14 <oerjan> Sgeo: is there OO at all?
20:05:43 <oerjan> is there a way to check the type of a list element?
20:06:18 <oerjan> i guess a single-element list could work as a sort of wrapper for anything
20:06:48 <monqy> does speed matter in second life
20:07:00 <monqy> execution speed that is
20:07:12 <oerjan> Sgeo: presumably it works sort of like [Dynamic] in haskell, then
20:07:23 <Sgeo> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetListEntryType
20:09:04 <oerjan> Sgeo: hm i note lists are not themselves among the types possible
20:09:23 <Sgeo> Can't put a list in a ist
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20:11:54 <Sgeo> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/List
20:13:26 <ais523> gah, I'm getting a burst of Sgeoism from my parents, who have basically banned the family from eating vegetables because of the E. coli outbreak in Germany
20:14:13 <monqy> lsl looks so gross :(
20:14:32 <monqy> good luck sgeo with making something less gross
20:15:00 <Sgeo> I think I may lack a clear enough view of all of LSL's grossness
20:17:08 <oerjan> ais523: even british grown ones?
20:17:39 <pikhq> Well, I'll be damned.
20:17:49 <ais523> oerjan: my mother is convinced that any vegetable I eat will be a contaminated one bought up because it was cheap, and mislabeled to trick people into buying it
20:18:02 <pikhq> The SCOTUS ruled yesterday that phone companies are required to unbundle their network.
20:18:20 <oerjan> ic. paranoid and prone to delusions. </mezzacotta>
20:18:54 <ais523> they also ruled on i4i vs. Microsoft; now i4i have won and Microsoft is out of appeals
20:19:00 <pikhq> Ah. As the FCC has been demanding.
20:19:11 <pikhq> "Yes, AT&T, you *are* subject to FCC regulations"
20:19:16 <ais523> luckily, though, they did say that the law in question is stupid (or imply it as strongly as they could), but said that it was relatively clear
20:19:33 <Phantom_Hoover> <pikhq> The SCOTUS ruled yesterday that phone companies are required to unbundle their network.
20:19:37 <ais523> also, the opinion looked to me like a deliberate attempt to point out a loophole in the law in question
20:19:53 <ais523> that could be exploited by other people who thought it was stupid
20:19:59 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Y'know how you can have multiple DSL providers using the same last-mile wiring?
20:20:29 <pikhq> That's because you have unbundling in your country.
20:21:27 <Phantom_Hoover> 22:42:53: <oerjan> which is pretty much the case with current version of Standard Model + General Relativity
20:21:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Standard Model doesn't predict neutrino flavour oscillation IIRC.
20:22:12 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i thought they'd sort of upgraded it to include that already :P
20:22:19 <oerjan> (thus "current version")
20:23:01 <oerjan> but still no one has any idea how to combine SM and GR into something which can actually be tested for correctness in our lifetime
20:23:09 <ais523> hmm, random fact I learned today: there is a division by zero in Pokémon's source code, but the division routine they use has x/0=x so they never noticed
20:23:41 <ais523> I suppose x/0=x is probably the best default if you want your program to not crash on a division by zero, as it's likely to produce a result in the range it was looking for
20:24:42 <oerjan> assuming you are dividing by integers, and not a floating point number which should actually be close to 0
20:25:24 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, also, QM is not at all friendly towards actually modelling things./
20:25:24 <ais523> floating point arithmetic's avoided like the plague in computer games, except in graphics routines, generally speaking
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20:27:00 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: what do you mean by "modelling" here?
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20:27:51 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, well, QCD for instance is impossible to calculate in all but the very simplest of cases.
20:27:58 <oerjan> if you mean "calculating simulation results" there's a guy named John Sidles frequently commenting on the Godel's Lost Letter blog who would disagree with you
20:28:19 <oerjan> at least for noisy systems
20:29:00 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, well, I know that there's no analytical proof of colour confinement, which is very nearly the simplest case you can actually have.
20:29:25 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: oh he is not talking about analytical proof, but about numerical calculation
20:30:12 <oerjan> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> The eigenratio of reality has to be enormous, though.
20:30:15 <HackEgo> 450) <Phantom_Hoover> The eigenratio of reality has to be enormous, though.
20:31:16 <pikhq> ais523: Floating point arithmetic is avoided like the plague, period.
20:33:27 <ais523> pikhq: most 3D graphics libraries work in single-precision floating point because rounding errors tend not to be visible, and pathological cases of floating-point arithmetic don't happen a lot in the sort of algorithms used
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20:33:48 <ais523> [21:32] <ais523> pikhq: most 3D graphics libraries work in single-precision floating point because rounding errors tend not to be visible, and pathological cases of floating-point arithmetic don't happen a lot in the sort of algorithms used
20:34:51 <pikhq> Not to mention that single-precision is faster.
20:36:37 <pikhq> Wow. Fedora 16 is going to have btrfs as its default filesystem.
20:36:53 <pikhq> It doesn't have an fsck yet.
20:40:59 <twice11> Use this as backing device: http://www.national.com/rap/Story/WOMorigin.html
20:44:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god "Garfield in <x>" is even worse than "Garfield <x>inus Garfield".
20:45:31 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i have no idea what the first is referring to
20:51:23 <Gregor> pikhq, not-present-elliott: OK, my threadsafe branch now substantially outperforms both Boehm and malloc/free, but it's still a non-marginal 27% slower than the non-threadsafe branch.
20:53:35 <Gregor> I have some ideas for how to bring it down, in particular my per-thread pools wasn't stable enough to make it in yet.
20:53:37 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId
20:53:49 <oerjan> !haskell import Control.Concurrent; main = forkIO (putStr "That is "); putStr "great!"
20:54:04 <oerjan> !haskell import Control.Concurrent; main = do forkIO (putStr "That is "); putStr "great!"
20:55:14 <oerjan> Gregor: the first game me something looking like the result of ls / rather than a ghc error message
20:55:47 <oerjan> !haskell import Control.Concurrent; main = forkIO (putStr "That is "); putStr "great!"
20:56:02 <oerjan> that gave the expected error
20:56:32 <oerjan> Gregor: _that_ gave me
20:56:36 <oerjan> 22:56 =EgoBot> QUIT :This better not work
20:57:04 <oerjan> there's something really wrong about EgoBot's passing on of messages
20:58:04 <EgoBot> bin dev etc home lib lib64 proc tmp usr
20:58:16 <oerjan> and missing the interps
20:58:49 <oerjan> Gregor: it seems like i get messages that someone else _should_ have got in DCC long ago
20:59:06 <oerjan> in fact i remember that QUIT :This better not work attempt from before
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21:00:09 <Gregor> !haskell import Control.Concurrent; main = forkIO (putStr "That is "); putStr "great!"
21:00:43 <oerjan> Gregor: several of those commands gave me responses in DCC that were completely unrelated to the command i made, and which looked like what someone else would have gotten in response to a different command
21:01:02 <oerjan> also, it is not repeatable in a deterministic way
21:01:12 <Gregor> EgoBot is based on the principle of chaos computing.
21:01:55 <oerjan> in fact my _second_ try of that erroneous haskell thing gave the expected ghc error message in DCC
21:02:53 <oerjan> however i remember this happening for quite a while. that !sh ls / above is the first case i remember where it happened as response to a fast command, though
21:04:03 <oerjan> nothing strange this time
21:06:45 <oerjan> :t fix Control.Concurrent.forkIO
21:06:46 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Conc.ThreadId'
21:07:09 <oerjan> :t Control.Concurrent.forkIO
21:08:01 <oerjan> :t fix . forever . Control.Concurrent.forkIO
21:08:02 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> a1'
21:08:02 <lambdabot> against inferred type `IO GHC.Conc.ThreadId'
21:08:02 <lambdabot> Probable cause: `GHC.Conc.forkIO' is applied to too many arguments
21:08:18 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> m b
21:08:34 <oerjan> :t fix $ forever . Control.Concurrent.forkIO
21:13:33 <oerjan> for some reason it doesn't have IO a ->
21:13:44 <oerjan> which is why you cannot fix it
21:14:02 <CakeProphet> but at that point you might as well use forever.
21:14:26 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> m b
21:14:28 <oerjan> right, besides fix forkIO doesn't actually do anything _after_ forking
21:14:39 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m b)
21:14:39 <lambdabot> Probable cause: `>>' is applied to too few arguments
21:14:39 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `fix', namely `(>>)'
21:14:53 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> m b
21:15:33 <lambdabot> Foreign.Marshal.Error void :: IO a -> IO ()
21:15:33 <lambdabot> Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP optional :: ReadP a -> ReadP ()
21:15:33 <lambdabot> Text.ParserCombinators.ReadP skipMany :: ReadP a -> ReadP ()
21:15:53 <oerjan> nothing direct it seems
21:15:58 <lambdabot> --count=20 "Control.Monad m a -> m ()"
21:16:08 <CakeProphet> no there's a void function in Control.Monad.
21:16:11 <lambdabot> forall (f :: * -> *) b. (Functor f) => f b -> f ()
21:17:03 <elliott> iirc gwern petitioned for it
21:19:03 <oerjan> you cannot expect lambdabot to import all of elliott
21:19:19 <oerjan> it would ruin her self esteem
21:19:43 <CakeProphet> Perhaps Haskell needs a Please extension, like INTERCAL.
21:19:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:20:04 <CakeProphet> so we could modify elliott with enough pleases to satisfy the interpreter/compiler in question.
21:20:40 <oerjan> but the pleases would annihilate against the elliott
21:21:06 <lambdabot> Foreign.Marshal.Error void :: IO a -> IO ()
21:21:11 <CakeProphet> ah yes, the natural law of anti-relationship of please and elliott.
21:21:16 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Posix.ByteString compIgnoreCase :: CompOption
21:21:16 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Posix.Sequence compIgnoreCase :: CompOption
21:21:16 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Posix.String compIgnoreCase :: CompOption
21:21:25 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:21:31 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:21:46 <CakeProphet> oklopol: I have actually come to train my brain to not mind it at all.
21:22:05 <CakeProphet> it's motherfuckin' built-in temperature control.
21:26:44 <oklopol> well i only mind it when i'm sitting or lying down, i don't enjoy marinating my back against a sweaty cloth, since i have acne in my back which i'd like to get rid of - although i don't actually know whether marinating it in sweat is bad for the acne.
21:27:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: finnish summers are like twenty degrees arent they
21:28:43 <oklopol> no the polar bear would die more like at most plus 1
21:28:52 * CakeProphet lives in the southern US. It is most likely hotter here in the summer.
21:29:09 <oklopol> but anyway it's often more than 30 in shade
21:29:20 <oklopol> for some definitions of often
21:29:33 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: That's a *record* high?
21:30:29 <pikhq> That's... Fucking chilly.
21:31:08 <oklopol> so about jacuzzis, do they usually have a way to make it it not heat but freeze the water?
21:31:16 <elliott> `addquote <oklopol> so about jacuzzis, do they usually have a way to make it it not heat but freeze the water?
21:31:18 <HackEgo> 451) <oklopol> so about jacuzzis, do they usually have a way to make it it not heat but freeze the water?
21:31:26 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, daily upper maxima are rarely above 22°, apparently.
21:31:26 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Sounds 'bout right.
21:31:35 <elliott> it wasn't because of the it it
21:31:46 <oklopol> THERE WAS ANOTHER TYPO?!?!?!?!?
21:33:18 <elliott> CakeProphet: how do you cope
21:33:24 <elliott> i die at about twentyfive degrees
21:33:35 <oklopol> i don't mind pretty much any temperature when i'm outside, it's mostly sitting naked in my armchair which is uncomfortable, and that's kind of a problem because that's my favorite thing.
21:33:39 <CakeProphet> though even when I'm outside it's not bad. I'm accustomed to it.
21:33:40 <elliott> CakeProphet: with AC on constantly?
21:34:07 <elliott> our climate is nice when we have good summers, winter always sucks though
21:34:10 <CakeProphet> I've been googling all of these conversions. :P
21:34:39 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, you realise that noöne else understands Fahrenheit, right?
21:34:42 <CakeProphet> winters are pretty moderate, which means they're still pretty fucking cold but it only goes below freezing occasionally.
21:35:10 <elliott> fahrenheit is the stupidest scale, true facts
21:35:29 <oklopol> so umm why are americans so stupid?
21:35:31 <CakeProphet> -shrug- I don't have a built-in celcius sense like I do fahrenheit
21:36:04 <elliott> 08:10:39: <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, doesn't it essentially come down to "you can change the past"?
21:36:09 <oerjan> pikhq: the record high for _all of norway_ is 35.6°C
21:36:12 <CakeProphet> it would break people's feeble minds to establish a new temperature scale.
21:36:16 <oklopol> how about those ofter standard like every standard US uses?
21:36:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You can change it really badly, just as long as the history books look much the same
21:36:25 <elliott> Butterfly effect: MYTH BUSTD
21:36:59 <oklopol> US could change from fahrenheit to celsius *continuously*!
21:37:02 <CakeProphet> I don't know I'd say yards are actually a bit more convenient than meters and centimeters.
21:37:08 <oklopol> so people would have time to adjust!
21:37:10 <elliott> CakeProphet: Only for interventions.
21:37:24 <ais523> oklopol: that is indeed awesome
21:37:33 <ais523> the issue is, it'd be like me trying to remember my age
21:37:33 <elliott> ITT: CakeProphet is used to US units, not metric; thinks US units are easier to intuitively use; world shocked
21:37:37 <ais523> I keep forgetting it because it changes so oftwn
21:37:45 <EgoBot> Interpreter sanetemp installed.
21:37:56 <ais523> elliott: what's more intuitive, acres or ares?
21:38:04 <ais523> I don't have an intuitive idea of how big either is, so I wouldn't know
21:38:04 <CakeProphet> elliott: I only mentioned /one/ thing as /possibly/ being a better scale for the kinds of distances one would eyeball. That is all.
21:38:07 <ais523> but nobody seems to use ares ever
21:38:20 <elliott> ais523: no idea, but land ownership is pretty old-school so that doesn't surprise me >:)
21:38:28 <olsner> everyone just uses hectares, which is a bit like the kilocalories thing
21:38:32 <elliott> ais523: people use hectares all the time
21:38:32 <oklopol> umm yards are essentially meters aren't they
21:38:43 <ais523> actually, in practice people normally use square metres and square feet for things that aren't farmland
21:38:49 <ais523> and yes, people do use hectares all the time
21:38:53 <ais523> but that isn't an SI unit
21:38:57 <ais523> it has an invalid prefix
21:39:10 <ais523> because it isn't a power of 1000
21:39:11 <oklopol> "<oklopol> umm yards are essentially meters aren't they" "<CakeProphet> ...not really." "<CakeProphet> they're similar in length though." <<< am i missing something?
21:39:41 <olsner> oklopol: *essentially* they are completely different, but they accidentally ended up similarly lengthed
21:39:46 <ais523> 1m ~= 39 in, 3 feet = 36 in
21:40:05 <elliott> my solution to metric-other conversion is
21:40:08 <ais523> I'm not sure how accurate the 39-inches comparison is, but it's more accurate than most of the others I know
21:40:08 <elliott> don't talk to people who use other
21:40:15 <elliott> i still use miles for long distances though
21:40:19 <oklopol> oh what olsner said i guess. i guess i have my own usage of terms like essentially.
21:40:31 <CakeProphet> elliott: I am quite fine with converting my units to your scales for the purposes of communication.
21:40:35 <ais523> I don't really measure long distances well at all
21:40:37 <EgoBot> There is already an interpreter for sanetemp!
21:40:38 <elliott> CakeProphet: same reason I don't talk to German people by tediously using a phrasebook
21:40:45 <EgoBot> Interpreter sanetemp deleted.
21:40:48 <EgoBot> Interpreter sanetemp installed.
21:41:23 <elliott> 08:16:56: <coppro> <House> Fear me, I have killed hundreds of Time Lords.
21:41:23 <elliott> 08:17:08: <coppro> <The Doctor> Fear me, I killed all of them.
21:41:23 <elliott> 08:17:16: <Phantom_Hoover> Which house?
21:42:13 <elliott> 08:19:48: <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, by 'corny' you mean 'terrible', of course.
21:42:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Eh, the series was alright with him.
21:42:22 <elliott> I mean yeah he was a bad writer but not so bad as to be intolerable.
21:42:28 <Phantom_Hoover> You realise I live at the same latitude as the Hudson Bay, right?
21:42:51 <CakeProphet> Fahrenheit actually makes some intuitive sense for outdoor temperatures. 0 = really fucking cold 100 = really fucking hot
21:43:27 <CakeProphet> 70 = comfortable room temperature for most people
21:43:51 <oklopol> you do realize 70 is not really even a number
21:43:52 <CakeProphet> there was no comparison to Celsius made, in fact.
21:44:03 <elliott> someone got a link to that anti-metrician site
21:44:20 <oklopol> CakeProphet: i really have no answer
21:44:24 <oklopol> but i stand by what i said
21:45:02 <CakeProphet> though some people are wimps who live in AC all day and prefer 65 to 70
21:45:43 <oklopol> i don't actually even know what this AC thing is
21:45:49 <oklopol> i wonder if we have those in finland
21:46:07 <oklopol> or what it's an acronym for i mean
21:46:10 <oklopol> i just don't know what that is
21:46:12 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: yep. that's what 65 is in Fahrenheit
21:46:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Although when the heating is off my breath has fogged indoors in May.
21:46:42 <CakeProphet> it kind of works like a fucked up school grade. from 0 to 100
21:47:29 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/hw9zx/what_happens_to_computer_files_when_you_delete/
21:48:18 <CakeProphet> some typical winter temperatures in the south US.
21:48:38 -!- oklofok has joined.
21:49:08 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, FWIW, we were significantly incapacitated by about 20cm of snow this winter.
21:49:19 -!- oklopol has quit.
21:49:50 <CakeProphet> 2 inches of snow in Georgia = oh my god everyone shut down everything
21:50:19 <oklofok> suddenly, mirc pops up a window saying i need to register it. so i had to open the program a few times to get it to accidentally have a continue button instead of an exit button.
21:50:48 <EgoBot> Interpreter sanetemp deleted.
21:50:58 <oerjan> !addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p"
21:50:58 <EgoBot> Interpreter sanetemp installed.
21:51:11 <oklofok> so you're removing interpreters but not bans?
21:51:28 * oerjan couldn't bear seeing an approximate number printed as an integer
21:52:01 <oerjan> also yes, the number of interpreters has got a bit large
21:52:06 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut lperl lsh map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot26 rot47 rot52 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh sh__ simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ucat
21:52:17 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
21:52:19 <oerjan> it's cut off again, there are more
21:52:49 <oerjan> Gregor: any suggestions for the too many userinterps problem?
21:53:10 <twice11> And rot52 at the same time?
21:53:13 <CakeProphet> all of the rots except 13 and 47 are cats.
21:53:22 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot26 deleted.
21:53:25 <EgoBot> Interpreter rot52 deleted.
21:53:33 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut lperl lsh map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh sh__ simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ucat valspeak war
21:53:52 <oerjan> i already removed a bunch before
21:53:56 <EgoBot> unlambda ``cd``d`@|`cd
21:54:01 <EgoBot> Interpreter ucat deleted.
21:54:35 <oerjan> someone has readded those i removed
21:54:53 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
21:55:05 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
21:55:20 <CakeProphet> !addinterp ustemp haskell printLn . (+32) . ((9/5)*) . read =<< getLine
21:55:20 <EgoBot> Interpreter ustemp installed.
21:55:23 <Phantom_Hoover> <CakeProphet> 2 inches of snow in Georgia = oh my god everyone shut down everything
21:55:46 * oerjan goes hunting for the culprit
21:55:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Have I pointed that this is two inches of snow at the same latitude that polar bears live at.
21:56:17 <CakeProphet> ..huh, well obviously I fucked something up.
21:56:49 <EgoBot> Interpreter ustemp deleted.
21:57:04 <CakeProphet> !addinterp ustemp haskell (printLn . (+32) . ((9/5)*) . read) =<< getLine
21:57:05 <EgoBot> Interpreter ustemp installed.
21:57:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Also you cannot compete with that dc code don't even try.
21:57:36 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: not trying to, just unrustifying myself with Haskell, poorly. :P
21:57:59 <Sgeo> My dad is under the impression that people will sneak drugs into you at raves
21:58:14 <EgoBot> haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!)
21:58:17 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, I guess
21:58:23 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm really hoping he actually thinks they sneak them into you.
21:59:20 <Sgeo> I told him about a party I want to go to, but it's from 11pm-4am. He claims it's a drug party, and to look up "raves". I say that I'm fully capable of not taking drugs, he says they'll get drugs into you
21:59:34 <EgoBot> Interpreter ustemp deleted.
21:59:38 <twice11> print already outputs a line feed. No need for printLn
21:59:41 <CakeProphet> !addinterp ustemp haskell (print . (+32) . ((9/5)*) . read) =<< getLine
21:59:42 <EgoBot> Interpreter ustemp installed.
21:59:54 <ais523> Sgeo: drinks being spiked is actually relatively common, although you can avoid it by paying attention
22:00:10 <elliott> ais523: have you ever been to a rave
22:00:15 <oklofok> Sgeo: tell him it's your body and you can use as much heroin as you like if it makes you happy
22:00:28 <CakeProphet> I've never heard of drink spiking at raves
22:00:28 <ais523> elliott: I don't think so
22:00:31 <oklofok> yeah pour liters of water in there
22:00:39 <elliott> ais523: damn, i was hoping i would be surprised
22:00:40 <Phantom_Hoover> oklofok, given that Sgeo's dad houses him and pays for his 'education'...
22:00:42 <ais523> I was once in a nightclub by mistake
22:00:45 <CakeProphet> but me nor any of my friends that have gone have never had that happen.
22:00:52 <ais523> what happened was, I was trying to watch election results
22:00:58 <CakeProphet> drugs are expensive. It would be a waste to use them on a random stranger.
22:01:01 <ais523> and the room I was in was being converted into a nightclub while the results were on
22:01:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I don't need education, I have drugs!
22:01:07 <elliott> ais523: are you sure that wasn't a dream
22:01:13 <ais523> no, it was quite ridiculous
22:01:16 <elliott> `addquote [on spiking] <CakeProphet> drugs are expensive. It would be a waste to use them on a random stranger.
22:01:17 <HackEgo> 452) [on spiking] <CakeProphet> drugs are expensive. It would be a waste to use them on a random stranger.
22:01:20 <ais523> especially as it meant we got in without paying the entry fee
22:01:30 <ais523> it was inevitable, thinking about it
22:01:36 <oerjan> CakeProphet: if you accepted DCC CHAT from EgoBot you would actually get error messages for your haskell, you know
22:01:37 <elliott> CakeProphet: I actually quite line that line
22:01:44 <ais523> because the room in question is one used by different people in the same organisation for a range of purposes
22:01:53 <CakeProphet> oerjan: ah. see I'd have to alt+1 to see that.
22:02:01 <ais523> and one of them had told us to use it for the election results without thinking about the other set of people using it as a nightclub once a week
22:02:01 <oklofok> Phantom_Hoover: he should just go to a free university and live off the money the government pays him every month for like 7 years.
22:02:06 <Phantom_Hoover> I do not believe ais523 would be allowed near a nightclub.
22:02:14 <elliott> CakeProphet: On a forum I'm on, someone once responded to a (well-known) idiot saying that dealers were, like, the most scary dangerous people on EARTH by saying that killing your customers is bad for business :)
22:02:21 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: He's too young.
22:02:24 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I'd have to explicitly go and take my passport with me to have any sort of ID
22:02:42 <CakeProphet> dealers come in all kinds of varieties, of course.
22:02:54 <ais523> apart from my university ID card, which used to get into pubs on occasion even though it isn't really valid ID
22:03:09 <ais523> although admittedly the typo is funnier
22:03:12 <elliott> if we had an underage Queen, technically she could get into any nightclub she wanted
22:03:24 <elliott> after all, all passports are issued by her authority
22:03:34 <ais523> (I don't actually drink anything in pubs, I just go there to order food, and confuse the bar staff when I don't order any drink to go with it)
22:03:45 <Phantom_Hoover> This could quite easily become the most awesome experiment ever conducted.
22:03:55 <Sgeo> ais523, not even water?
22:04:05 <elliott> CakeProphet: Having fun deifying your political classes?
22:04:13 <ais523> Sgeo: it's much cheaper to drink water when I get home
22:04:19 <elliott> CakeProphet: I can't tell you how much I prefer idolising the royal family over idolising Sarah fucking Palin.
22:04:29 <elliott> The amount would simply not fit into the universe.
22:04:36 <CakeProphet> as far as I know most logical people hate Sarah Palin.
22:04:45 <elliott> Congratulations, you missed the point entirely.
22:04:46 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, see also the US attitude towards patriotism and its foundation.
22:05:26 <Phantom_Hoover> You'd think you were founded by a race of demigods who descended from the heavens to fight off the moustache-twiddlingly evil British and reclaim their rightful land.
22:05:28 <elliott> Nobody with enough of a brain gives a shit about Sarah Palin or the royal family or anything, but patriotism will always exist and it needs someone to be all hyped up about, and a powerless monarchy is a better target than a dangerous idiot.
22:05:36 <CakeProphet> though, it's not a good rebuttal to what I said. I was simply commenting on the strageness of a modern nation having a queen.
22:06:02 <CakeProphet> I wasn't saying that you idolize her... at all.
22:06:02 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, France and Germany don't seem to have too bad a time of it.
22:06:06 <elliott> CakeProphet: You realise the Commonwealth is pretty big right?
22:06:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but do you want to risk it? Heard of Berlusconi/
22:06:29 <oklofok> elliott: that's a rationalization tho, can't we laugh at you having a queen because you actually have it for retarded reasons?
22:06:48 <elliott> oklofok: it's not a rationalisation so much as a reason to keep a now-useless remnant
22:06:50 <oerjan> <ais523> Sgeo: it's much cheaper to drink water when I get home <-- huh. in norway it's established that establishments cannot take more than a token payment for tapwater.
22:07:02 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, you're reducing vastly complex social factors into an extremely simplistic view.
22:07:05 <elliott> oerjan: Yes but you're communists.
22:07:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Welcome to IRC.
22:07:18 <oklofok> elliott: are you sure that's one of the actual reasons you keep it?
22:07:22 <elliott> It's about four times more verbose than Twitter.
22:07:31 <CakeProphet> water is pretty much universally free at establishments in the states.
22:07:36 <elliott> oklofok: you're acting like I have the power to individually abolish the monarchy
22:07:42 <elliott> I'm expressing my personal opinion
22:07:42 <ais523> oklofok: major practical advantage of having a Queen: it means that we have someone we can send abroad for state visits to shake hands without having to take the Prime Minister away from the actual job of governing
22:07:54 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, your argument is completely flawed as a result, though.
22:08:02 <elliott> ais523: I dunno, I think I'd prefer an excuse to take the PRime Minister away from governing
22:08:05 <ais523> most Universities have a Chancellor for the same reason, while the Vice-Chancellor does all the actual work
22:08:14 <ais523> elliott: I'm talking in general
22:08:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: maybe if this wasn't IRC I'd actually bother fleshing out my argument rather than stating it off-hand as part of banter
22:08:20 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, people in the UK are not as patriotic as those in the US; it's not a fixed thing/
22:08:21 <ais523> or do you dislike prime ministers in general?
22:08:23 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:08:29 <Sgeo> Agora needs someone who can shake online hands.
22:08:42 <elliott> while Sgeo does all the work of protecting it from invasion?
22:09:11 <oklofok> elliott: i called it a rationalization because i thought it was a personal opinion. then you said it's a reason so i figured maybe that's somehow explicitly stated in secret government files you read every day.
22:09:30 <oklofok> YOU KNOW FROM WIKILEAKS OR SOMETHING
22:09:30 <elliott> oklofok: nah, I'm not saying why I think we have a queen
22:09:40 <elliott> I'm saying why I don't particularly think getting rid of the queen is something to bother doing
22:09:46 <elliott> not that it would ever happen, anyway
22:09:55 <elliott> oklofok: wikileaks? lol hello i am the prime minister
22:10:19 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: depends on the person of course. Most of my personal friends are very disappointed with American government, and the few UKers that I've met have been oddly patriotic.
22:10:24 <oerjan> <CakeProphet> wait, you have to pay for water? <-- not in practice.
22:10:35 <elliott> CakeProphet: How many national treasures does the US have ;D
22:10:52 <oklofok> elliott: oh that would explain why you're so stupid hahahahahahahaha
22:11:04 <elliott> CakeProphet: I don't think you know what national treasure (is used to) mean(s)
22:11:15 <olsner> oerjan: you don't have places that resell bottled tapwater? we do
22:11:38 <CakeProphet> elliott: No I do, but there are also these shitty films you see....
22:11:43 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, well, it's rare that you see any prominent figures in the UK calling us the "greatest nation on Earth".
22:12:38 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: there's quite a large current of disatisfaction with the US government in the states. Of course, it doesn't show as much in the political sphere. 18:02 < CakeProphet> elliott: haha. nice.
22:12:42 <CakeProphet> 18:02 < CakeProphet> dealers come in all kinds of varieties, of course.
22:12:45 <CakeProphet> 18:02 < ais523> apart from my university ID card, which used to get into pubs on occasion even though it isn't really valid ID
22:12:54 <ais523> CakeProphet: it was a typo
22:12:56 <pikhq> "Large current" is understating it.
22:13:00 <ais523> which I corrected on the next line
22:13:04 <ais523> although admittedly it's a funny typo
22:13:14 <oklofok> yeah three lines of spam is a hilarious typo
22:13:51 <elliott> ais523: your university id card is the life of the party man
22:14:23 <oerjan> <olsner> oerjan: you don't have places that resell bottled tapwater? we do <-- of course we do, you don't have to buy it though
22:14:32 <olsner> a restaurant in my town have *their own brand* of bottled water that is "here-bottled", i.e. they fill it from the tap before they give it to you... and it costs at least as much as brand-name water imported from the other end of europe would've costed
22:14:59 <olsner> tap water in a glass is "not part of their concept" (quote is actual quote)
22:15:41 <oklofok> i'm speechless, he said out loud.
22:16:28 <elliott> not part of their concept :D
22:17:54 <ais523> CakeProphet: UK "gas" = the state of matter after it's been vaporised, US "gasoline" = UK "petrol"
22:17:58 <ais523> I'm not quite sure what the question means
22:18:04 <oklofok> but that's probably a realistic guess compared to what others will say
22:18:17 <CakeProphet> ais523: what is the price of "petrol" in various parts of the UK.
22:18:28 <ais523> oh, about £1.30 per litre at the moment
22:18:53 <elliott> I like how Americans complain about the price of petrol so much
22:18:55 <ais523> <Google> (UK£ 1.30) per litre = 7.99225346 U.S. dollars per US gallon
22:18:56 <elliott> when it's more expensive everywhere else
22:19:23 <elliott> http://www.eia.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html
22:19:23 <oklofok> what would you ever need petrol for
22:19:27 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.datadev.com/degausser-hard-drive-data-security-erase-v6000-conveyor.html
22:19:28 <elliott> it's a whole THREE DOLLARS PER GALLON in the US zomg
22:19:32 <oklofok> newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good
22:19:35 <pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 mile one-way commutes.
22:19:40 <elliott> `addquote <oklofok> what would you ever need petrol for <oklofok> newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good
22:19:41 <HackEgo> 453) <oklofok> what would you ever need petrol for <oklofok> newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good
22:19:43 <CakeProphet> the price of gas where I live is $3.50 per gallon.
22:19:45 <ais523> oklofok: it's actually poisonous, so I advise against drinking it
22:20:01 <ais523> let's call it $8 per gallon in the UK, because my originally stated price was approximate anyway
22:20:05 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, also contains benzene, my carcinogen of choice.
22:20:26 <CakeProphet> though I believe in some parts of the states it goes over $4 per gallon. -gasp- WHICH IS OUTRAGEOUS.
22:20:32 <elliott> `addquote [on petrol] <ais523> oklofok: it's actually poisonous, so I advise against drinking it <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, also contains benzene, my carcinogen of choice.
22:20:33 <HackEgo> 454) [on petrol] <ais523> oklofok: it's actually poisonous, so I advise against drinking it <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, also contains benzene, my carcinogen of choice.
22:20:38 <oklofok> "<pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 mile one-way commutes." <<< one-way commutes? you have like disposable jobs?
22:20:40 <elliott> CakeProphet: In CALIFURNIA
22:20:45 <olsner> "<oklofok> hmm, so this is fuel? will it also fuel me perhaps?"
22:20:47 <pikhq> oklofok: "20 miles, one way".
22:20:47 <elliott> `addquote <oklofok> "<pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 mile one-way commutes." <<< one-way commutes? you have like disposable jobs?
22:20:48 <HackEgo> 455) <oklofok> "<pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 mile one-way commutes." <<< one-way commutes? you have like disposable jobs?
22:20:54 <HackEgo> 239) * pikhq sticks several thousand kg m^2/A s^3 through elliot <elliott> pikhq: I'm underage!
22:20:55 <HackEgo> 251) <zzo38> Maybe they should just get rid of Minecraft. If more people want it someone can make using GNU GPL v3 or later version, with different people, might improve slightly.
22:20:56 <HackEgo> 224) <Phantom_Hoover> [...] I'm just widening the shaft to be 4x2 or so.
22:20:57 <HackEgo> 260) <elliott> clue is a language for beauty, not usefulness <elliott> or ability to run at all <oklopol> ability to run at all is not even close to a design goal, no
22:20:58 <HackEgo> 336) <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here
22:20:58 <olsner> but I guess oklofoks are *not* in fact petrol driven
22:20:58 <ais523> this is a good day for `addquote
22:21:10 <elliott> ais523: what a fine day to add quotes indeed.
22:21:18 <pikhq> Also, public transit is not really an option outside of most of New York City.
22:21:26 <elliott> We need like ten quotes about petrol, at LEAST.
22:21:34 <ais523> I didn't even notice 336 was fungot at first
22:21:41 <ais523> it would have been plausible from many other memvers of the channel
22:21:47 <HackEgo> 131) <fungot> alise: why internet is like wtf
22:21:57 <elliott> I always imagine a badly-made robot prop saying that in a robot voice.
22:21:59 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: That's, uh, a volt in SI base units.
22:22:03 <elliott> It is just so confused as to why internet is like wtf.
22:22:07 <olsner> hmm, are those markov chain quotes?
22:22:10 <ais523> pikhq: I was trying to decode it in my head
22:22:15 <elliott> olsner: do you... not know of fungot
22:22:33 <ais523> olsner: they're markov chain quotes generated by a bot written in Funge-98
22:22:36 <ais523> which isn't here right now
22:22:38 <elliott> olsner: http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
22:22:42 <elliott> ais523: it's not actually markov, IIRC
22:22:43 <HackEgo> 349) <ais523> elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet
22:22:45 <elliott> It's a different kind of chain thing
22:22:51 <HackEgo> 33) <ehird> pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. <fungebob> ehird: consider low-gravity porn <ehird> fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. \ 63) <Warrigal> Porn. <Warrigal> There, see? \ 77) <coppro> SF.net porn :/ <ehird> Oh yeah, baby, gimme that... bloated download page? \ 132) <DoctorDog> I am an inherently pornographic
22:23:05 <olsner> elliott: I know it's a bot and I've seen it speak, and you've probably told me before what it was
22:23:12 <HackEgo> 132) <DoctorDog> I am an inherently pornographic being.
22:23:13 <HackEgo> 135) <alise> like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English <ais523> alise: that's great filler <alise> ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language...
22:23:30 <ais523> best quote about anything
22:23:40 <HackEgo> 104) <dtsund> For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. \ 413) <ZOMGMODULES> I can trust elliott_ to have an opinion on anything and everything <elliott_> Yes. <elliott_> And the best thing is:
22:23:54 <HackEgo> 413) <ZOMGMODULES> I can trust elliott_ to have an opinion on anything and everything <elliott_> Yes. <elliott_> And the best thing is: it is the correct opinion.
22:23:54 <ais523> it's always the /right/ opinion
22:23:55 <elliott> a very important quote number
22:24:02 <ais523> bleh, misquoted slightly
22:24:26 <HackEgo> 149) <Mathnerd314> Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough \ 190) <fizzie> It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". <fizzie> "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..."
22:24:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'll fix delquote soon and everything will reorder.
22:24:35 <elliott> I should modify the quote system to remember IDs really.
22:24:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No, we've just recently entered the four-hundreds.
22:25:08 <EgoBot> Interpreter b1ff deleted.
22:25:30 <oklofok> maybe if i bought more petrol we'd get over 800 sooner. you know, because then i could be on fire all the time.
22:25:32 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut lperl lsh map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh sh__ simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ustemp valspeak warez
22:25:41 <EgoBot> perl $_=<>;print `$_`
22:25:49 <EgoBot> Interpreter sh__ deleted.
22:25:56 <elliott> !aol THE FACT THAT I WILL BE HELPFUL IS AN IMMUTABLE FACT THAT I AM STATING FOR THE RECORD
22:25:56 <EgoBot> THE FACT THAT I WILL BE HELPFUL IS AN 1MMUTABLE FACT THAT I AM 5TAT1NG FOR THE RECORD
22:25:59 <olsner> !swedish flarglblalrdk
22:26:16 <oklofok> egoegoegoegoegoegoegoegoegoegoegoegoegoego
22:26:23 <oklofok> okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
22:26:24 <CakeProphet> oerjan: but you just deleted our most powerful sh command!
22:26:45 <elliott> this is a good day on esoteric
22:26:52 <oerjan> CakeProphet: this is more powerful than plain !sh how?
22:26:55 <HackEgo> 247) <ais523> I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck <ais523> that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi \ 302) <oerjan> <Gregor> oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think <Gregor> oerjan: What - the - fuck \ 326)
22:26:57 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16753
22:27:00 <CakeProphet> oerjan: because it's written in Perl, of course.
22:27:13 <oklofok> "<HackEgo> 247) <ais523> I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck <ais523> that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi" <<< best ever, maybe
22:27:45 <HackEgo> 37) <oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 95) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 97) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. \ 109) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files,
22:28:00 <EgoBot> perl $_=<>;tr/!-~/P-~!-O/;print
22:28:11 <HackEgo> 3) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 6) <Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR> He's alive :P <GreenReaper> Even so. \ 11) <Lil`Cube> wouldn't that be considered pedophilia? <Quas_NaArt>
22:28:18 <olsner> why does hackego do the weird invisible character thing? link recognition fails :/
22:28:29 <elliott> olsner: because Gregor is bad and horrible
22:28:30 <HackEgo> 33) <ehird> pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. <fungebob> ehird: consider low-gravity porn <ehird> fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. \ 249) <fizzie> The Perl script is probably slower than the Befunge code. \ 271) <elliott> in retrospect that wasn't even necessary, as communal readings of the Funge-98 spec do just a
22:28:35 <Gregor> olsner: Shut your link-recognition whore mouth!
22:28:36 <CakeProphet> woah, a bf rot13 sounds insanely complicated.
22:28:38 <elliott> and hates botloops even more than he hates not being terrible
22:28:45 <HackEgo> 124) <Gregor> Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... <Gregor> pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing
22:28:46 <ais523> CakeProphet: it's not massively bad
22:29:02 <ais523> the hard part is working less-than and greater-than operators
22:29:15 <olsner> elliott: hmm, who's running Gregor? can we patch it?
22:29:21 <elliott> CakeProphet: http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/rot13.b is a ... longer version than
22:29:24 <elliott> theres an anagolf one of it
22:29:24 <CakeProphet> ais523: ah, yeah nevermind. For some reason I was thinking you had to load the entire string into memory at once. That is silly.
22:29:26 <oklofok> i don't particularly like apples
22:29:34 <elliott> olsner: EgoBot is running Gregor
22:29:41 <oklofok> they have that thing inside them that tastes like meh
22:29:53 <ais523> CakeProphet: even if you did, it still wouldn't make a significant difference
22:30:00 <oklofok> pears also have shit inside them
22:30:01 <ais523> loading one string into memory is one of the few things that BF is actually very good at
22:30:05 <CakeProphet> oerjan: it's like rot13 but with numbers and symbols too.
22:30:18 <oklofok> the taste of the good part is of secondary importance
22:30:30 <ais523> oklofok: you can eat just the good part and throw the rest away
22:30:30 <oerjan> <olsner> why does hackego do the weird invisible character thing? link recognition fails :/ <-- why would a prefixed character prevent link recognition?
22:30:38 <HackEgo> 407) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 408) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407)
22:30:40 <elliott> oerjan: because its part of the same word
22:30:43 <elliott> oerjan: consider abchttp://google.com/
22:30:52 <oklofok> "<ais523> oklofok: you can eat just the good part and throw the rest away" <<< if i could *first* throw the rest away and then eat, it'd be okay
22:30:54 <elliott> except that's actually a valid abchttp link, but whatever
22:31:02 <CakeProphet> django is named after AN EXCELLENT JAZZ GUITARIST.
22:31:04 <ais523> oklofok: there's a tool called a corer
22:31:13 <elliott> ais523: i think he means the actual apple
22:31:16 <ais523> if you combine that with cutting away obvious bruises, you should be OK
22:31:18 <elliott> that was the oklopol way of interpreting it
22:31:22 <Gregor> X-Chat doesn't know that zero-width space is a whitespace character.
22:31:38 <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 408) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352)
22:31:39 <elliott> I swear not to botloop if you remove it :P
22:31:46 <olsner> maybe (probably) xchat does not know all the unicodes
22:32:08 <oklofok> otherwise, while eating, i'll keep thinking "well this is good, but AT WHAT COST", you know, because i have to dispose of the insides after eating, have to keep track of nearest trashcan etc.
22:32:18 <Sgeo> How long will it take me to reread hivebent?
22:32:20 <elliott> ais523: oklofok just likes the skin, you see
22:32:31 <elliott> Sgeo: 0 seconds, but you won't be able to name a single event or character
22:32:37 <elliott> perfect optimised skimming
22:32:42 <olsner> oklofok: this is why fruiteaters are inferior
22:32:43 <ais523> oklofok: you don't have a trashcan in your kitchen?
22:32:48 <oklofok> "<ais523> oklofok: there's a tool called a corer" <<< that doesn't remove all of it usually
22:32:52 <ais523> or do you not eat apples there
22:33:07 <oklofok> "<elliott> ais523: i think he means the actual apple" <<< no, one of oklopol's things is hating complicated food.
22:33:09 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut lperl lsh map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ustemp valspeak warez wc wc
22:33:15 <EgoBot> sh text=`cat`; opts=`echo "$text" | sed 's/\( \|^\)[^-].*//'`; text=`echo "$text" | sed 's/.*\( \|^\)\([^-]\)/\2/'`; echo -n "$text" | wc $opts
22:33:27 <elliott> oklofok: do you like baby food
22:33:40 <ais523> oerjan: did you just refer to yourself in the third person using a different nick from your current one?
22:33:43 <EgoBot> Interpreter wc2 deleted.
22:33:44 <oerjan> Gregor: that list is too damn crowded
22:33:47 <oklofok> "<ais523> oklofok: you don't have a trashcan in your kitchen?" <<< yes but i don't have to keep making sure it's still there while eating
22:33:58 <elliott> !wc http://www.google.com/
22:34:02 <elliott> !wc -c http://www.google.com/
22:34:11 <ais523> and do you live in an environemnt where people might plausibly steal your trashcan while eating?
22:34:14 <EgoBot> sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=5; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 bc -l | tr -d '\\'
22:34:16 <elliott> ok the -c stops it loading it
22:34:21 <oklofok> "<elliott> oklofok: do you like baby food" <<< comes in a glass jar, not particularly nice
22:34:22 <EgoBot> what is this I wonduh
22:34:35 <ais523> elliott: to be fair, I did catch that second misping before pressing return but it was too funny to correct
22:34:36 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26884
22:34:44 <elliott> Gregor: ur supa kawaii ^________^
22:34:50 <oklofok> "<ais523> oerjan: did you just refer to yourself in the third person using a different nick from your current one?" <<< did you just refer to me using a different nick from any of my nicks?
22:35:08 <ais523> elliott: heh, kawaii is one of the few Japanese words I actually know the meaning of
22:35:12 <ais523> although I can't spell it
22:35:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: k i will because i am nice
22:35:21 <CakeProphet> I wonder if fudd is a better elmer than elmer.
22:35:30 <elliott> ais523: i was using it ironically :(
22:35:34 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/delquote
22:35:52 <oklofok> yeah actually me and oerjan are the same guy
22:35:59 <ais523> elliott: well of course, you aren't an anime-loving cosplaying teenage girl
22:36:04 <elliott> ais523: OR AM I?????????????????
22:36:06 <ais523> and I don't think anyone else uses it non-ironically
22:36:21 <elliott> hmm, shell is really confusing
22:36:36 <elliott> `run id=999; echo $((id-9))
22:36:51 <ais523> is it implying a sigil there?
22:36:57 <elliott> ais523: yeah, bash math mode is weird
22:36:58 <oklofok> ais523: outside japan or inside it either?
22:37:06 <olsner> ais523: japanese people calling stuff 'cute' might use it non-ironically a lot though
22:37:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14184
22:37:12 <Phantom_Hoover> <ais523> elliott: well of course, you aren't an anime-loving cosplaying teenage girl
22:37:40 <oklofok> ais523: afaiu, japanese people love cutesy things, why wouldn't they have a serious word for them?
22:37:41 <elliott> `run sh -x bin/delquote 444 2>&1
22:37:42 <HackEgo> + id=444 \ + expr 444 + 0 \ + head -n 443 quotes \ + tail -n +445 quotes \ + diff quotes quotes.new \ + mv quotes.new quotes \ + echo '*poof*' \ *poof*
22:37:49 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:37:50 <ais523> oklofok: it's a great word
22:37:57 <elliott> `run sh -x bin/delquote 445 2>&1
22:37:58 <HackEgo> + id=445 \ + expr 445 + 0 \ + head -n 444 quotes \ + tail -n +446 quotes \ + diff quotes quotes.new \ + mv quotes.new quotes \ + echo '*poof*' \ *poof*
22:38:00 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:38:01 <CakeProphet> elliott: yeah the sigil is implied in expr/$(())
22:38:10 <olsner> oklofok: if everything is already cute, why would you need a word for it?
22:38:19 <elliott> stop takling guys im doing serious software engineering
22:38:21 <ais523> oklofok: I mean, it's so much better than the rough English translations
22:38:30 <oklofok> ais523: so why would you only use it ironically
22:38:36 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: are you oklofok <-- not afaik
22:38:49 <ais523> because the meaning is one that most people wouldn't generally want to use
22:38:55 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/XWbR
22:38:57 <HackEgo> 2011-06-10 22:38:56 URL:http://sprunge.us/XWbR [214] -> "XWbR" [1]
22:39:00 <olsner> elliott: lol, "engineering" software are you?
22:39:01 <oklofok> argh, there's too much noise here, when i finally manage to answer, people have already spammed like 50 lines
22:39:07 <oklofok> whoops, meant to say that as oerjan.
22:39:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes.new
22:39:30 <ais523> whoops, I just accidentally deleted all my email
22:39:30 <elliott> ok so it just does nothing
22:39:34 <ais523> good thing the undelete is working properly
22:39:42 <elliott> is the mail server running on dos
22:40:00 <oklofok> "<ais523> because the meaning is one that most people wouldn't generally want to use" <<< oh well i don't know what it means past "cute"
22:40:01 <elliott> <zzo38> Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself
22:40:01 <elliott> this quote always unnerves me
22:40:09 <elliott> i find it hard to come up with reasons that zzo wouldn't flip out and become a serial killer :/
22:40:15 <elliott> but then the same applies to all of you
22:40:25 <olsner> hmm, you're assuming he hasn't already?
22:40:40 <oklofok> i would never flip out and become a serial killer, but it might be a very interesting career choice otherwise
22:40:49 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/FTCd
22:40:50 <HackEgo> 2011-06-10 22:40:50 URL:http://sprunge.us/FTCd [214] -> "FTCd" [1]
22:41:03 <olsner> oklofok: the first and second part of that sentence don't seem to agree completely
22:41:12 <oklofok> olsner: i mean "flipping out" is just gay
22:41:25 <CakeProphet> oerjan: the sudden profusion of userinterps is my doing.
22:41:27 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/VASY
22:41:27 <EgoBot> perl for (<>) {lc; s/l(?!e\W)/w/g; s/\Ber|(?<!f)or\b/uh/g; s/ire\b/iyuh/g; s/wr\B/w/g; s/(?<![iou])r\B/w/gx; print}
22:41:29 <HackEgo> 2011-06-10 22:41:28 URL:http://sprunge.us/VASY [215] -> "VASY" [1]
22:41:43 <oklofok> if i became a serial killer, it'd be because i want to kill people, not because i'm crazy
22:41:50 <elliott> `run head -n 450 quotes | paste
22:41:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15924
22:41:54 <oerjan> CakeProphet: it's a problem when we cannot list them all...
22:41:59 <elliott> im going to add <oklofok> if i became a serial killer, it'd be because i want to kill people, not because i'm crazy
22:42:05 -!- kovacs has joined.
22:42:06 <olsner> right, becoming a serial killer doesn't imply that you've flipped out or even changed in personality
22:42:13 <olsner> just that you've started killing people
22:42:27 <oklofok> saying anything else is just ignorant
22:42:33 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/addquote
22:42:46 <oerjan> well that wasn't the right flag
22:42:58 <elliott> `run head -n $((455-1)) quotes >quotes.new
22:43:01 <oklofok> killing people is a natural thing, which we refrain from because it's so much better than the alternative in the long run.
22:43:13 <elliott> `run head -n $((9-1)) quotes >quotes.new
22:43:21 <elliott> gah how does that work but not
22:43:27 <olsner> elliott: $((455-1)), aka 454?
22:43:34 <elliott> olsner: stfu im trying to dianogse the bug
22:43:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes
22:43:46 <Gregor> elliott: Maaaaaaaaaaaaybe you want to take this to PM :P
22:43:52 <elliott> Gregor: fuk u im an unpaid volunter
22:43:55 <CakeProphet> elliott: CONCENTRATE CONCENTRATE CONCENTRATE CONCENTRATE
22:43:56 <HackEgo> 453) <oklofok> "<pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 mile one-way commutes." <<< one-way commutes? you have like disposable jobs?
22:44:04 <HackEgo> 453) <oklofok> "<pikhq> elliott: Americans also have 20 mile one-way commutes." <<< one-way commutes? you have like disposable jobs?
22:44:08 <oklofok> Gregor: lol hello welcome to #esoteric
22:44:15 <elliott> `run head -n $((453-1)) quotes >quotes.new
22:44:21 <Gregor> elliott: Your `quote hours go directly into my GGGGC hours! By some convolution.
22:44:29 <CakeProphet> !perl print "elliott: " . "CONCENTRATE" x 30
22:44:29 <EgoBot> elliott: CONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATE
22:44:31 <elliott> `run head -n $((454-1)) quotes >quotes.new
22:45:01 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
22:45:11 <elliott> is it just the merging time
22:45:11 <Gregor> elliott concentrate, new from Crooked Tooth Farms
22:45:36 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". \ 445) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:45:37 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". \ 445) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:46:01 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:46:11 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:46:13 <olsner> `run echo CONCENTRATE | sed 's/.*/elliott: &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&/'
22:46:24 <elliott> olsner: seriously fucking stop
22:47:01 <olsner> elliott: it didn't even work ... what did the bot do to my &'s?
22:47:01 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag". \ 445) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:47:22 <oerjan> > var$"elliott: "++cycle"CONCENTRATE"
22:47:23 <lambdabot> elliott: CONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATECONCENTRATE...
22:47:23 <HackEgo> 444) <elliott> This is [...] me saying "lol im a fag".
22:47:29 <elliott> oerjan: im going to rip your skull
22:47:43 <elliott> guys delquote worked all along happy holidays
22:48:05 <elliott> `addquote <oklofok> if i became a serial killer, it'd be because i want to kill people, not because i'm crazy
22:48:06 <HackEgo> 454) <oklofok> if i became a serial killer, it'd be because i want to kill people, not because i'm crazy
22:48:16 <elliott> <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, are you fixing delquote YOU BETTER BE
22:48:19 <elliott> fixed, in the past, by never breaking it
22:48:20 -!- kovacs has left.
22:48:21 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ tmpdir.15136 \ тэкст
22:48:28 <HackEgo> Ня ведаю, навошта, але няхай сабе будзе
22:48:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1234
22:48:42 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut lperl lsh map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ustemp valspeak warez wc yo
22:49:07 <Gregor> elliott: Apparently that says "I do not know why, but let it be" in Belarusian (wtf)
22:49:12 <elliott> Gregor: clearly we need it
22:49:14 <EgoBot> bf ,----------[++++++++++>,----------]<[.[-]<]
22:50:07 <oerjan> CakeProphet: i think it is something for symbolic computation, although i'm just using it because its Show instance prints the original string without quotes (and unlike text which i've seen used here before, works with infinite strings)
22:50:10 <CakeProphet> !sadbf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
22:50:19 <olsner> is this the channel where someone posted a link to the write-only memory datasheet?
22:50:19 <EgoBot> sadol :M$0 :d:i,45000@>i-01(2]M0:i-i1:S$0:C;3:l#C-01:p:m0@<pl(2?=#Cp"1+:#Mm%+#Mm1,3255?=#Cp"1-:#Mm?<-#Mm10,3254-#Mm1?=#Cp"1>:m%+m1d?=#Cp"1<:m?<-m10-s1-m1?=#Cp"1.!'2#Mm?=#Cp"1,:#Mm'1;0?=#Cp"1[]S-p1?=#Cp"1]?=#Mm00:p[S0:p+p1
22:51:03 <HackEgo> 425) <GregorR> How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! <CakeProphet> I have the weirdest boner right now.
22:51:12 <EgoBot> (standard_in) 1: illegal character: H
22:51:19 <olsner> elliott: it wasn't? then I'll have to repost it for it is funny
22:51:29 <elliott> olsner: it might have been :P
22:51:40 <oerjan> <CakeProphet> !yo hello my good friends <-- that's probably !yodawg, which should be the last interpreter unless someone added one behind it
22:51:49 <elliott> [[And that was going to a type with less strict alignment rules. Increasing the requirement like this:
22:51:49 <elliott> Has three possible outcomes: i == 0, i == 42 or crash (unaligned 4-byte load).]]
22:52:07 <elliott> It's undefined behaviour, it has literally infinite possible outcomes because it isn't a program.
22:52:31 <CakeProphet> !postmodern_aoler I think it's important to focus our energy right now
22:52:31 <EgoBot> I TH1NK 1T"5 IMPORTANT 2 FOCU5 OUR ENERGY RIGHT NOW
22:52:58 <elliott> !postmodern_aoler Im a tarski jfk
22:53:46 <oerjan> <olsner> is this the channel where someone posted a link to the write-only memory datasheet? <-- i've seen write-only memory mentioned so possibly
22:54:11 <EgoBot> haskell import System.Random; main = (randomRIO (0,1) :: IO Int) >>= print
22:54:31 <EgoBot> Interpreter decisionengine deleted.
22:54:41 <CakeProphet> !addinterp haskell import System.Random; main = (randomRIO (0,1) :: IO Int) >>= print
22:54:42 <EgoBot> There is already an interpreter for haskell!
22:54:50 <CakeProphet> !addinterp decide haskell import System.Random; main = (randomRIO (0,1) :: IO Int) >>= print
22:54:51 <EgoBot> Interpreter decide installed.
22:54:52 <olsner> http://www.national.com/rap/Story/WOMorigin.html <-- here it is then
22:55:13 <olsner> new for everyone who hasn't, refresher course for everyone who has read it
22:55:22 <EgoBot> haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!)
22:55:35 <CakeProphet> !addinterp acro haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!)
22:55:36 <EgoBot> Interpreter acro installed.
22:55:41 <EgoBot> Interpreter simpleacro deleted.
22:55:54 <elliott> YOU FUCKING RUINED SIMPLEACRO
22:55:58 <EgoBot> Interpreter acro deleted.
22:56:03 <elliott> !addinterp simpleacro haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!)
22:56:04 <EgoBot> Interpreter simpleacro installed.
22:56:21 * oklofok wonders if proving something would be a nice addition to all this white noise
22:56:23 <elliott> <EgoBot> hey fhet's zeees OouooH SNEP IT'S A FOooCKING TIGER
22:56:37 <CakeProphet> hey it's my program I can name it whatever I want. :P
22:56:46 <oerjan> elliott: wtf are you sabotaging our attempts at shortening the interpreter list?
22:56:51 <CakeProphet> if I shorten some of the names then we can have more interps displayed.
22:56:53 <elliott> oerjan: i value tradition, asshole.
22:56:57 <olsner> anyway, about bot loops: I think that if the bot sends messages to the channel in a special way, then other bots can see which messages were sent from other bots and ignore them
22:56:58 <oklofok> here's a fun little puzzle which you can solve yourselves
22:57:05 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird elmer fudd google graph gregor gregor__1 hello id jethro kraut lperl lsh map num ook pansy pi pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simpleacro simplename slashes svedeesh swedish ustemp valspeak warez wc yodawg
22:57:08 <elliott> olsner: or they can just ignore messages with certain nicks
22:57:14 <oerjan> CakeProphet: oh well they all fit now. i think.
22:57:20 <olsner> istr this is what lambdabot does to prevent loops between several lambdabots
22:57:27 <EgoBot> unlambda (sending via DCC)
22:57:32 <EgoBot> sh sed 's/th/þ/g ; s/Th/Þ/g ; s/s/ſ/g ; s/ae/æ/g ; s/Ae/Æ/g ; s/oe/œ/g ; s/Oe/Œ/g'
22:57:37 <EgoBot> Interpreter gregor__1 deleted.
22:57:38 <oklofok> A, B \subset X^2, A and B transitive, B symmetric, A \cup B = X^2. prove A = X^2 or B = X^2
22:57:45 <elliott> !addinterp pikhq sh sed 's/th/þ/g ; s/Th/Þ/g ; s/s/ſ/g ; s/ae/æ/g ; s/Ae/Æ/g ; s/oe/œ/g ; s/Oe/Œ/g'
22:57:45 <EgoBot> Interpreter pikhq installed.
22:57:50 <EgoBot> haskell main = interact (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines $ map (("<ehird> " ++) . unwords . words) $ food $ map toLower)
22:58:03 <elliott> !ehird the most donkey fishes
22:58:07 <elliott> !eehird the most donkey fishes
22:58:19 <elliott> <EgoBot> /tmp/input.17083.hs:1:57: Not in scope: `isAlpha'
22:58:20 <elliott> <EgoBot> /tmp/input.17083.hs:1:70: Not in scope: `isSpace'
22:58:24 <elliott> <EgoBot> /tmp/input.17083.hs:1:151: Not in scope: `isAlpha'
22:58:28 <elliott> <EgoBot> /tmp/input.17083.hs:1:164: Not in scope: `isSpace'
22:58:32 <elliott> <EgoBot> /tmp/input.17083.hs:1:245: Not in scope: `toLower'
22:58:36 <elliott> > (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines $ map (("<ehird> " ++) . unwords . words) $ food $ map toLower) "the most donkey fishes"
22:58:37 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
22:59:38 <elliott> it's uorygl's fault apparently
22:59:48 <CakeProphet> !ehird I have this awesome opinion on something
22:59:49 <EgoBot> Em have this awesome opinion on something
23:00:22 <ais523> because I like circular definitions
23:00:23 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:00:39 <olsner> lol, why didn't I see that the first time, it's wrong
23:00:42 <oerjan> <olsner> istr this is what lambdabot does to prevent loops between several lambdabots <-- yeah it adds initial space to many things.
23:00:54 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/hwlxz/ok_wtf_i_live_near_this_reactor_here_in_the_us_we/
23:01:05 <olsner> oerjan: that isn't what "this" referred to
23:01:39 <CakeProphet> !addinterp acro haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!)
23:01:40 <EgoBot> Interpreter acro installed.
23:01:45 <EgoBot> Interpreter simpleacro deleted.
23:01:51 <Deewiant> > (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines . map (("<ehird> " ++) . unwords . words) . food . map toLower) "the most donkey fishes"
23:01:53 <lambdabot> "<ehird> the most donkey fishes\n"
23:02:59 <CakeProphet> I wonder why it takes so long for it to run
23:03:15 <elliott> Deewiant: What's that even meant to do.
23:03:19 <oerjan> elliott: missing Data.Char import i guess
23:04:29 <Deewiant> > (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines . map (("<ehird> " ++) . unwords . words) . food . map toLower) "123abc456def"
23:04:46 <elliott> oerjan: it doesn't even type as-is
23:05:12 <Deewiant> 2009-07-13 04:12:15( Warrigal) > let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines $ map (("<ehird> " ++) . unwords . words) $ food $ map toLower $ "What do you do, my eponymous friend?"
23:05:17 <Deewiant> 2009-07-13 04:14:08( Warrigal) !addinterp eehird haskell main = interact (let food s = case dropWhile (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s of "" -> []; s' -> w : food s'' where (w, s'') = break (\x -> not (isAlpha x || isSpace x)) s' in unlines $ map (("<ehird> " ++) . unwords . words) $ food $ map toLower)
23:06:57 <oerjan> <olsner> oerjan: that isn't what "this" referred to <-- well then i don't know what you mean
23:08:56 <olsner> oerjan: basically that there are severaly ways to send messages to channels, and one of them is supposed to be used by bots but not people
23:09:08 <olsner> and if you make bots only listen to people, everything works out
23:09:21 <oerjan> elliott: well Deewiant fixed some . / $ confusion
23:09:34 <olsner> I remember a discussion about this in one of the haskell channels a long time ago
23:09:46 <olsner> about how lambdabot avoids bot loops
23:10:05 <oerjan> olsner: notices, yes, but lambdabot doesn't use that. because it's annoying in most clients.
23:10:09 <CakeProphet> as far as I know the IRC protocol only has one MSG command.
23:12:44 <olsner> right, lambdabot definitely doesn't use those
23:13:18 <oklofok> in mirc, you see that on whatever channel happens to be active i think
23:13:32 <olsner> I wonder what it was then, because I definitely remember that (someone claimed that) it didn't rely on the contents of the messages
23:13:33 <oklofok> so you get those in the logs of another channel, which is kinda insane
23:14:40 <ais523> I think notices should be used properly
23:14:54 <ais523> regardless of mIRC interpreting them as massively exciting rather than as less important than privmsgs
23:15:46 <oklofok> privmsg's aren't important?
23:16:03 <oklofok> i guess you didn't mean *even* less important
23:16:25 <oklofok> i don't think mirc considers notices more important than privmsg's since it opens a query window for privmsgs
23:18:15 <oklofok> If a space is metrizable, then it is sequentially compact if and only if it is compact. However in general there exist sequentially compact spaces which are not compact (such as the first uncountable ordinal with the order topology), and compact spaces which are not sequentially compact (such as the product of uncountably many copies of the closed unit interval).
23:18:17 <CakeProphet> mirc doesn't consider anything important because it's a program.
23:18:48 <oklofok> wanted to check which direction is always true because i couldn't see it
23:19:04 <oklofok> but lol topology owns i need to get my hands on counterexamples in topology
23:21:33 <CakeProphet> hmmm, how would you go about a fuzzy three-valued logic?
23:22:49 <CakeProphet> you could have an unknown value that is independent of your truth and false value.
23:31:40 <oerjan> <ais523> regardless of mIRC interpreting them [...] <-- irssi too
23:32:24 <oerjan> do you know any client which _does_ treat notices as less important in-channel
23:32:41 <CakeProphet> well when I /sent/ the notice I was in Window, but it showed it in #esoteric
23:32:43 <oerjan> (irssi does refrain from opening a new window if it's not in a channel)
23:34:13 <ais523> Konversation uses [Notice] -nick- rather than <nick> for notices
23:34:21 <ais523> and allows you to set them to a different color
23:34:43 <oerjan> that's still more noise than a privmsg
23:34:51 <ais523> and my color settings are to make them less standouty than privmsgs
23:34:59 <ais523> (I have them set a closer color to the background than privmsgs are)
23:35:10 <ais523> but yes, still more noise
23:35:23 <HackEgo> 1) <Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 2) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 4) <AnMaster> that's where I
23:36:10 <HackEgo> 1) <Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 2) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 4) <AnMaster> that's where I
23:36:18 <elliott> isn't that some kidn of automatic differentiation
23:36:27 <HackEgo> 67) <oklopol> hmm, this is hard \ 98) <Warrigal> Ah, vulva. <Warrigal> What is that, anyway? \ 133) <Quas_NaArt> Hooray! <Quas_NaArt> I'm an idiot. \ 179) <ais523> it was too difficult \ 197) <Vorpal> pikhq, Okinawan? Wtf is that \ 391) <crystal-cola> 3 = 7/2
23:36:54 <HackEgo> 98) <Warrigal> Ah, vulva. <Warrigal> What is that, anyway?
23:36:54 <ais523> CakeProphet: you're looking for quotes that contain no es?
23:39:55 <oerjan> elliott: i was trying to find the name of that Expr thing which is like fun but not overloaded, and which i think i may have misspelled when finding var. unless its name really _is_ var or val and it just isn't imported because it conflicts with the Sym and Dif ones
23:40:26 <CakeProphet> No Perl variable names in quote, surprisingly.
23:40:39 <oerjan> also what was that trick i used to get the module name of a lambdabot identifier
23:41:06 <oerjan> istr managing it with Sym yesterday
23:41:45 <lambdabot> It could refer to either `L.val', defined at <l...
23:42:48 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show
23:43:18 <oerjan> (again, i needed to send > val in private to get a longer response)
23:46:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:46:29 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:46:46 <elliott> hey Sgeo guess what didn't just update
23:47:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: There's also /r/drugs :P
23:47:11 <oerjan> CakeProphet: somewhat random name for reddit's main marijuana subreddit (r/marijuana apparently has awful management so people fled it)
23:47:20 <elliott> oerjan: it's not actually the main one
23:47:26 <elliott> it's basically a place for stoners to... be stoners on reddit
23:47:33 <elliott> there's a "serious" weed subreddit, IIRC
23:47:47 <elliott> I suspect the reason there's no analogues for other drugs is because they tend to be rather more incapacitating
23:47:50 <CakeProphet> elliott knows all about the various potsmoking subcultures of reddit.
23:47:55 <elliott> /r/drunk is for alcoholics
23:48:08 <Sgeo> I remember hearing that /r/marijuana was moderated by some nut\
23:48:20 <oerjan> but it's certainly reddit's _largest_ drug subreddit (it even reached top 10 after that ... 4/ something event)
23:48:46 <elliott> /r/cannabis or something is the serious one, IIRC
23:48:46 <oerjan> only for a week though
23:49:06 <elliott> oerjan: it's four/nineteen
23:49:12 <oerjan> CakeProphet: 4/some number that has some significance
23:49:18 <elliott> the number is nineteen definitely
23:49:36 <elliott> oh right, and four/twentyone is international heroin abuse day
23:49:42 <elliott> where you abuse heroin for the occasion.
23:49:46 <oerjan> CakeProphet: r/trees decided to go nuts with upvotes on that day, so managed to reach top 10 subreddit for the next week
23:52:06 <CakeProphet> elliott: how does one properly handling heroin without abusing it?
23:52:24 <CakeProphet> keep it in storage? tell it nice things occasionally?
23:52:39 <CakeProphet> how does one use heroin and not abuse it, in this nomenclature.
23:52:39 <oerjan> iirc it's supposedly based on some police code for drugs which may or may not actually have existed
23:52:57 <elliott> CakeProphet: a loving mutual relationship
23:53:37 <CakeProphet> bicycle day is definitely a more interesting drug-related holiday. I honestly have no clue where 4/20 originates.
23:54:07 <oerjan> oh 419 are the scammers
23:54:08 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)
23:54:24 <oerjan> elliott: apparently there are a lot of 4nn things :P
23:58:28 <CakeProphet> Bicycle day is increasingly observed in psychedelic communities as a day to celebrate the discovery of LSD, this occasionally involves the consumption of LSD but most of the time individuals mark the day through referring to the discovery on social media.
23:58:38 <CakeProphet> The article seems to suggest that these events are mutually exclusive.
23:59:06 <elliott> The hoover seems to suggest that these events are mutually exclusive.