00:00:17 <elliott> 19:11:24: <Madk> iconmaster
00:00:18 <elliott> 19:11:31: <Madk> I did the unthinkable
00:00:18 <elliott> 19:11:40: <Madk> I registered an account on a furry forum just to contact you
00:00:18 <elliott> 19:11:46: <Madk> I hope you appreciate this
00:00:29 <elliott> i too stalk esolang designers via furry forums
00:00:42 <elliott> 19:13:03: <Madk> there are no crappy languages
00:00:43 <elliott> 19:13:06: <Madk> only crappy programmers
00:00:43 <elliott> no, there are also crappy languages
00:00:59 <elliott> 19:14:48: <iconmaster> `quote <Madk> #%%:]__t�# <Madk> do you see that <Madk> that is great progress taking place
00:01:20 <elliott> `addquote <Madk> #%%:]__t�# <Madk> do you see that <Madk> that is great progress taking place
00:01:21 <HackEgo> 496) <Madk> #%%:]__t�# <Madk> do you see that <Madk> that is great progress taking place
00:01:33 <olsner> it's nice that both quotes includes my nick, so I will get a highlight and can relive the quotes whenever they appear
00:01:44 <elliott> 19:19:34: <Madk> `addquote iconmaster <iconmaster> `quote iconmaster <HackEgo> No output. <iconmaster> Didnt think so.
00:01:44 <elliott> 19:19:35: <HackEgo> 494) iconmaster <iconmaster> `quote iconmaster <HackEgo> No output. <iconmaster> Didnt think so.
00:01:47 <HackEgo> 493) iconmaster <iconmaster> `quote iconmaster <HackEgo> No output. <iconmaster> Didnt think so.
00:04:00 <elliott> 22:17:36: <Phantom_Hoover> "LC is a really nice language. I wasn't able to find a modern, untyped, lazy language."
00:04:01 <elliott> 22:17:42: <Phantom_Hoover> LC means exactly what you think it meas.
00:04:03 <elliott> come on though, lc is great
00:04:09 <elliott> i've linked http://tinyconcepts.com/invaders.html that that post linksto before
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00:07:11 <zzo38> Do they exist any FPGAs that do not support any kind of design security?
00:09:49 <elliott> is this because you don't like security
00:10:25 <elliott> ?tell ais523 whats fpga design security
00:11:58 <oklofok> energy drink so good but im gon be up all night :((
00:12:32 <cheater__> i've spent the last 8 hours wading through german criminal law
00:12:43 <zzo38> It is because I don't want design security. I want it can be read/write without a special software, without keys, etc.
00:13:04 <oklofok> well it's 3 am and i need about 12 hours of sleep
00:13:25 <cheater__> are you recovering from serious trauma
00:13:28 <oklofok> because i have a very, very large brain.
00:13:36 <oklofok> which works so really really hard.
00:14:17 * cheater__ cracks a walnut with oklofok's cranium
00:14:31 <oklofok> my brain so big i can think anything.
00:14:49 <cheater__> can your brain think something your brain couldn't think?
00:14:49 <oklofok> come on gimme something and i'll think about it
00:15:05 <oklofok> ...i think i'm gonna need more than my usual 12 hours tonight :\
00:15:49 * cheater__ tears oklofok out of the loop, but oklofok loses a couple random limbs.
00:16:11 <oklofok> well all my important limbs are numb anyway so who cares.
00:16:13 -!- Gregor has set topic: Does steak love lettuce? This question is implacably hard to answer. Does an electron love a proton or a neutron? Does a man love a woman or, to be precise, does Bill love Diane? The response to this question is: no! He is obsessed and infatuated with her. He is loony and crazy about her. That is not the love of steak and lettuce, of electron and proton and neutron. | Logs: http://codu.o.
00:16:58 <cheater__> you've got a nice threesome going there
00:17:04 * oklofok was so sure that was zzo38's topic
00:17:08 <Gregor> zzo38: I can see there :P
00:17:20 <zzo38> But I did see that quotation in the book titled "There Are Two Errors In The The Title Of This Book"
00:18:01 -!- Gregor has set topic: Does steak love lettuce? Does an electron love a proton or a neutron? Does a man love a woman or, to be precise, does Bill love Diane? No! He is obsessed and infatuated with her. He is loony and crazy about her. That is not the love of steak and lettuce, of electron and proton and neutron. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
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00:18:58 <oklofok> they used that standard article trick but i can't see the other one
00:19:43 <zzo38> The second error is the number of errors.
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00:23:41 <zzo38> The thing is I am trying to find some FPGA that is known exactly the format used to program it.
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00:46:46 <zzo38> I found that the Atmel FPSLIC FPGA documentation is available and an open source implementation of the programs for dealing with it are available. However, how can you purchase this device?
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00:51:40 <Sgeo> Letting a phone with a glass screen slip underneath a couch pillow is a bad idea.
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01:05:15 <oklopol> what if i don't sleep and just go to work now
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01:06:35 -!- pikhq has joined.
01:06:38 <elliott_> Building attoparsec-0.9.1.1...
01:06:38 <elliott_> [1 of 9] Compiling Data.Attoparsec.Zepto ( Data/Attoparsec/Zepto.hs, dist/build/Data/Attoparsec/Zepto.o )
01:07:22 <monqy> is synchronicity the right word for here and now
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01:10:31 <elliott_> Message Nothing (Command "ERROR") ["Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection timed out)"]
01:10:31 <elliott_> Message (Just (ServerPrefix "niven.freenode.net")) (Command "NOTICE") ["*","*** Couldn't look up your hostname"]
01:10:35 <elliott_> OMG ITS THE WRONG WAY AROUND YOU SHITHEAD :(
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01:11:31 <monqy> ante zepto bot?????
01:12:33 <elliott_> monqy: good idea but no i am taking a break from ante-zepto to let certain issues in its regard simmer through my mind so that the most zepto solution can be attained
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01:51:12 <elliott_> 02:38:23: <Sgeo> How far do companies typically cyberstalk their employees?
01:51:12 <elliott_> 02:38:42: <Gregor> To the VERY BRINK OF DEATH
01:51:13 <elliott_> 02:39:06: <Sgeo> If I mention on my resume some of the projects I've worked on, they may trace that to the name "Sgeo", and from there to the fact that I'm an atheist. Legally, they can't not hire me for that, but if I don't know that that's the reason...
01:52:48 <Gregor> I'm pretty sure that's super-olde, and I'm ALSO pretty sure that they CAN not hire you on religious grounds, perhaps depending on the particular business.
01:53:05 <monqy> the churching business
01:53:26 <monqy> christian greeting cards and plushies business
01:55:52 <elliott_> Gregor: Super-olde = last May :P
01:56:14 <Gregor> Good lawde that's olde.
01:56:16 <elliott_> Gregor: And I'm not too familiar with your strange American customs but is that kind of sentiment rampant in fucking New York? X-D
01:56:43 <Gregor> It would only be common in businesses such as the ones monqy mentioned :P
01:57:52 <elliott_> 02:50:53: <Sgeo> http://enphilistor.50megs.com/irtc.htm SQUEE
02:00:10 <elliott_> 04:36:09: <Gregor> You left ... speakeasy ... for comcast.
02:00:29 <Sgeo> Go watch all of the Rusty animations
02:16:07 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)).
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02:22:00 <pikhq> ... Someone would leave Speakeasy?
02:22:52 <pikhq> Except maybe a felatotron 5000?
02:26:58 <Gregor> So who wants to know how to tie a (glorious) Richards knot? :P
02:32:57 <pikhq> The fuck? This RAR is smaller uncompressed.
02:33:08 <pikhq> RAR: Negative compression.
02:39:15 <Sgeo> pikhq, has to happen sometimes
02:39:30 <Sgeo> Even if it shouldn't have to happen by more than a bit
02:44:42 <Sgeo> Note: Do not mention diverse double-compiling to someone who wants to recompile all the software on his system to "keep devils out"
02:46:08 <elliott_> Sgeo: just tell em about trusting trust
02:46:14 <elliott_> and let them rip out their own eyeballs in fear
02:46:20 <Sgeo> elliott_, too late
02:46:56 <elliott_> youre not allowed to tell us about crazies without showing :(
02:47:02 <Sgeo> http://pastebin.com/KWJzdW9D
02:47:50 <elliott_> <elliott_> w e w i l l f i n d y o u
02:48:13 <elliott_> * Topic for #jesus is: https://github.com/chan-jesus :: Encouragement and prayer, love for Jesus Christ, open source development. Courtesy required, charity and patience appreciated. This channel is G-rated. biblebot format is: @bible book chapter:verse
02:48:22 <elliott_> are you trying to deconvert them all please say no
02:49:14 <Sgeo> Just like to watch and discuss sometimes
02:49:41 <elliott_> im sure you talk to the christian programmers as equals to better understand their religious beliefs
02:51:00 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:51:03 <elliott_> so starting from that github page
02:51:09 <elliott_> Put my frozen GF mini-Jesus into my pyx & going to mass at St Iggy. Alert the media!
02:51:13 <elliott_> @MeredithGould hopefully that's low-gluten and not gluten-free, otherwise nothing would happen when the priest consecrates it :-/
02:51:20 <elliott_> .@michaelsbradley Teeny % of gluten, enuff for Jesus to be zapped in. ;-)
02:51:24 <elliott_> just enough gluten for jesus to be zapped in
02:51:49 <monqy> im wowing silently
02:52:07 -!- elliott_ has set topic: Just enuff gluten for Jesus to be zapped in. ;-) | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
02:52:25 <elliott_> i like the worried face on the middle tweet
02:52:34 <elliott_> I sure hope you're not missing out on your daily recommended amount of Jesus :-/
02:52:38 <Gregor> elliott_: Can has link to that tweetthread?
02:52:55 <elliott_> http://twitter.com/#!/michaelsbradley second tweet on there
02:53:08 <elliott_> "new twitter" makes linking to things impossible sry
02:53:21 <elliott_> well http://twitter.com/#!/michaelsbradley/status/90169871169622016 for the record but it's a pain to navigate that way
02:54:05 <elliott_> "@CrypticSwarm also some crazy Func Prog thing called "join calculus" & Perl6's junctive operators..Func React turns out to be a compsci lens"
02:54:51 <Gregor> elliott_: I would be laughing if I wasn't crying.
02:55:25 <elliott_> my tolerance for religious beliefs ends at people thinking that the priest consecrating the eucharist literally turns it into jesus flesh
02:55:50 <Sgeo> elliott_, is that a quote?
02:56:01 <monqy> cannibalisms cool if its jesus
02:56:11 <monqy> or is this god jesus not man jesus
02:56:24 <Gregor> SITES WHICH STEAL "/" AND TURN IT INTO THEIR SEARCH BAR: WORST EVER
02:56:36 <elliott_> he;lp i need a balanced trinity diet
02:57:00 <Gregor> Twitter seriously sucks arse >_<
02:57:14 <elliott_> the new twitter interface is amazing
02:57:20 <elliott_> its like a crash course in what the fuck were you thinking
02:58:17 <pikhq> Why the *fuck* would you want to make it impossible to hotlink to your site?
02:58:45 <pikhq> Nothing about that screams "good idea". Everything screams "bad idea and fuck you."
02:59:06 <pikhq> elliott_: I bet you love Catholicism.
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03:15:17 <Sgeo> elliott_, you actually msg'd IASON
03:18:55 <elliott_> paste what lead you to that information
03:19:14 <Sgeo> How about no, I don't feel like doing this for your amusement.
03:19:27 <elliott_> so only your amusement comes into consideration :(
03:19:32 <monqy> what about for my amusement
03:20:06 <Sgeo> elliott_, your nastiness to someone is ... well, mean. I can't support it.
03:20:26 <monqy> i just laugh behind backs
03:20:32 <elliott_> it sure would be cool if you stood up for yourself in situations where it actually mattered instead of just in situations where it doesn't matter, Sgeo
03:26:05 <elliott_> oh what, someone who i was once sort-of-in a small interweb community with is now famous
03:26:19 -!- Sgeo has left ("Leaving").
03:26:20 <monqy> congratulations, someone
03:26:27 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:26:36 <coppro> 23:19:54 < elliott_> it sure would be cool if you stood up for yourself in situations where it actually mattered instead of just in situations where it doesn't matter, Sgeo
03:27:17 <elliott_> i love irc quote towers can we have one??
03:27:56 <Sgeo> coppro, hmm, what about that?
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03:28:35 <elliott_> oh what, the guy's comic is now big, weird
03:28:40 <zzo38> Thanks for correcting the topic message; now it is not too long anymore.
03:29:07 <augur> happy tesla day! :D
03:30:21 <Gregor> *tesla-coil related innuendo*
03:31:12 <pikhq> Tesla: best thing to ever happen to Colorado Springs.
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03:35:46 <elliott_> oh, pratchett's took another step to the grave?
03:37:28 <Sgeo> elliott_, :( link?
03:37:57 <elliott_> http://blastr.com/2011/06/terry-pratchett-begins-fo.php
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03:43:27 <elliott_> Sgeo: i meant i was pointing you to that link
03:43:50 <Sgeo> I just didn't say anything about it
03:43:53 <monqy> maybe if you weren't a keyboard-cripple you wouldn't confuse poor sgeo
03:44:38 <monqy> so when's the new version of whatever you're waiting for to get a new keyboard going to come out
03:45:00 <elliott_> this month, and its not etting a new keyboard
03:45:03 <elliott_> i have to send the whole laptop in
03:45:09 <elliott_> so since i'll want to wipe it anyway before i send it in
03:45:15 <elliott_> because i doubt they'll like it booting into linux
03:45:24 <elliott_> so that i can at least make something useful out of it
03:45:27 <elliott_> i.e. an upgrade of my other os
03:46:45 <monqy> why wouldn't they like it booting into linux are they meanies
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03:47:45 <elliott_> i dont want to read the warranty but i suspect youre not allowed to complain about your keyboard breaking if you install linux
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03:54:19 <zzo38> elliott_: It should depend whether it is physical damage on outside or if it stopped working.
03:54:52 <monqy> but that's complicated
04:00:38 <Sgeo> Note to self: When someone thinks that their mouse has a virus, do NOT speculate on the possibility of manufacturing a trojan mouse
04:01:12 <elliott_> i wish that channel was logged
04:05:16 <pikhq> Sgeo: It's entirely possible.
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04:05:25 <pikhq> Simply wire a USB flash drive into the mouse.
04:07:34 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> IASON, at some point, somewhere along the line, you need to trust someone. It's theoretically possible to put some backdoor into the processor, but that's not a serious possibility
04:07:34 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> And it's nearly impossible for you to prevent it
04:07:40 <Sgeo> <IASON> Sgeo: thats why im buying a sparc next
04:07:41 -!- pingveno has joined.
04:09:52 <pikhq> Because Sun is more trustworthy than Intel?
04:10:17 <elliott_> pikhq: some sparcs are open source.
04:10:41 <pikhq> *cough*trusting trust*cough*
04:11:09 <elliott_> cough i can parrot irrelevant things too cough?
04:11:12 <elliott_> trusting trust is irrelevant here
04:11:33 <pikhq> elliott_: Verilog code has to be compiled.
04:12:03 <pikhq> The compiler itself could have a hack in it, perhaps even by a trusting trust attack on the C compiler.
04:12:24 <Sgeo> Trusting trust is defeatable, in theory
04:12:49 <Sgeo> Not sure how you'd do DDC with Verilog
04:13:26 <pikhq> Not to mention, the SPARC itself would have to have an actually trustworthy design, as (presumably) would the FPGA.
04:14:15 <pikhq> If you're that fucking paranoid, your only option is to start with transistors. And ensure no other human can access it.
04:14:26 <pikhq> By getting yourself to Alpha Centauri. And only you.
04:16:11 <pikhq> And then hope the universe isn't fucking with you.
04:16:19 <monqy> how do you trustworthily get there
04:28:05 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to Phillipa.
04:28:35 -!- Phillipa has changed nick to Guest28613.
04:32:03 <zzo38> You can make any USB device with a virus without too much difficult. I do know some ways of preventing it by modifying the Linux kernel and stuff.
04:33:32 -!- Guest28613 has changed nick to copumpkin.
04:35:51 <zzo38> Make it to not automatically recognize or activate any USB device unless all of these conditions hold: * It is a keyboard * No other keyboards (not even PS/2) are connected * Nobody is logged in on a serial terminal
04:36:18 <Sgeo> What if you want to be able to use mice/
04:36:41 <Sgeo> Also, won't stop a keyboard that transmits every keystroke... somehow
04:36:52 <zzo38> Of course this cannot prevent radio viruses.
04:39:18 <zzo38> If you want to use mouse, I propose it must meet all these conditions: * It is connected at boot time * A USB keyboard is also connected at boot time * No PS/2 keyboard or PS/2 mouse is connected * The operating system is configured to run a GUI by default
04:39:25 <elliott_> 22:12:36: <Phantom_Hoover> Brains in jars or translation?
04:39:25 <elliott_> 22:12:44: <Phantom_Hoover> Guess which one I want to talk about.
04:39:26 <pikhq> zzo38: Alternately, you could just remove the USB stack.
04:39:38 <zzo38> In other cases, you must use commands to activate them manually.
04:40:47 <zzo38> And if multiple USB keyboard/mouse are connected at boot time while no PS/2 keyboard/mouse are connected, it will also activate all of them automatically.
04:42:33 <zzo38> And one more: USB keyboard/mouse that have keys or mouse buttons keld down at boot time which are ones that the operating system does not know how to deal with, are not automatically activated.
04:42:45 <Sgeo> I wish I could get this person some mental help
04:43:13 <elliott_> yeah shove them in an institution. that works well.
04:43:45 <zzo38> If you want a USB file system, connecting a mouse after it is booted, or a keyboard after it is booted if you already have a keyboard, USB printer, USB audio, etc, then you must type the commands to activate them manually.
04:44:08 <zzo38> But the USB port would still provide power to inactive devices.
04:44:32 <Sgeo> Oh, he was referring to fluoridation. Which is stupid, but at least there's a thought process other than "Everyone's trying to kill me"
04:45:16 <Sgeo> (in regards to his belief that they poisoned the tap water)
04:45:58 <zzo38> What do you think about these ideas for security of connecting USB devices?
04:48:19 <pikhq> zzo38: Seems like a decent scheme.
04:48:51 <pikhq> Aaah, fluoridation.
04:48:54 <pikhq> Cursed by the stupid.
04:49:10 <pikhq> Meanwhile, I live in a location where the water needs defluoridation.
04:54:43 <zzo38> These USB security scheme might make the computer a bit more difficult to use, but I don't care. You can still easily use the commands to activate it if you know how.
04:55:11 <zzo38> Now I invented a new word "radio virus".
04:56:03 <zzo38> Even devices such as SIM cards that might not actually have direct radio transmitter, are capable of radio viruses.
04:57:26 <zzo38> They could use a subliminal code to leak your address book to your service provider.
05:00:59 <zzo38> Even if a keyboard (USB or not) has no radio transmitter, it can still have a radio virus that retains all information so that when you resell it or return it (it could be designed to break after a few years so that you will return it to the manufacturer for warranty repair!) they can steal that information!
05:03:53 <zzo38> Do you think any manufacturers have actually done any of this stuff?
05:09:29 <elliott_> "I believe in a literal six-day creation event where the universe was spoken into existence by God six to ten thousand years ago. I don't believe this for scientific reasons (though significant known scientific evidence corroborates with this origin hypothesis)"
05:11:20 * elliott_ waits for pikhq to see that (there is a specific reason)
05:14:24 <zzo38> What scientific evidence?
05:14:26 <elliott_> guess who wrote that pikhq, no googling
05:14:32 <elliott_> zzo38: there is none, this guy is deluding himself :P
05:14:52 <pikhq> elliott_: I got nothing, but *wince*
05:15:18 <zzo38> There may be a few kinds of philosophical evidence (for some possible ways of defining "evidence", probably not the standard ways though)
05:15:44 <pikhq> elliott_: Fucking hell.
05:15:55 <elliott_> pikhq: his blog is literally the best i cant stop reading its like a trainwreck in slow motion
05:16:01 <elliott_> that's from the series "understanding a conservative christian"
05:16:17 <elliott_> the post literally blames nazism on darwinism
05:16:48 <pikhq> Y'mean "Gott Mit Uns" Nazis?
05:18:17 <elliott_> "As an example, consider the Nazis of World War II era. Collectively as a culture they embraced a morality which permitted the murder of millions of innocent individuals. Few would agree with their callous disregard for human life, yet they were acting well within the (non-)limits allowed by darwinist/secular humanist morality."
05:18:24 <elliott_> wait he's not even blaming it on darwinism
05:18:32 <pikhq> He's blaming it on secular humanism.
05:18:33 <elliott_> hes just saying that darwinism is ok with nazis
05:18:39 <elliott_> "Not so with darwinist-based atrocities (the eugenics movement, nazism)"
05:18:42 <zzo38> We now have evidence that Darwin was wrong (although that doesn't mean evolution in general is wrong)
05:18:49 <elliott_> oh man he namedrops moral relativism A+
05:19:20 <pikhq> elliott_: Probably some minor nitpick that nobody cares about.
05:19:32 <pikhq> zzo38: Nobody claims Darwin was 100% correct, or even *cares if he was*.
05:19:51 <zzo38> Some things Darwin wrote do not match the actual scientific evidence of evolution.
05:19:57 <elliott_> oh come on don't be hostile to people just because they dared insult the great darwin
05:19:58 <pikhq> The general concept works. Many of the details work. That's how science works.
05:20:19 * Sgeo is also curious
05:20:33 <pikhq> elliott_: I'm not sure of the exact detail, but I'm going to take a guess that it has something to do with his lack of knowledge of genetics.
05:20:42 <pikhq> (which literally did not *exist* at the time he wrote)
05:20:42 <elliott_> how about you let the person who does know answer
05:20:49 <zzo38> pikhq: OK. Of course even other things in science we correct over time. This is not the exception.
05:21:32 <pikhq> Anyways. Nazis, secular humanism? They were about as Catholic as you could get without being the Pope.
05:22:16 <pikhq> (and one particular Nazi is as Catholic as you can get.)
05:23:22 <Sgeo> zzo38, so what did Darwin get wrong?
05:23:41 <zzo38> Unfortunately I forget the details.
05:24:03 <zzo38> But pikhq might be correct that it has to do with his lack of knowledge of genetics. I am not sure.
05:26:05 <pikhq> Hmm, oddly enough the one thing someone from that era would have been *most* likely to screw up, he didn't.
05:26:17 <oklopol> i finished my article in a few hours and now i'm wondering how to spend the rest of my workday
05:26:35 <Sgeo> pikhq, hmm, what?
05:26:41 <pikhq> He deemed that all human beings were of the same species and that if races were even useful markers at all, they were mere variants or sub-species.
05:26:54 <oklopol> turns out you have to add (G surjective => G identity) since that was not implied by what i had and xor was a counterexample
05:26:59 <pikhq> Which was in stark contrast to the prevailing view that, say, Africans were literally sub-human.
05:27:27 <elliott_> erm darwin was actually pretty racist iirc
05:27:33 <elliott_> istr something about ~primitive negroes~
05:27:56 <zzo38> What is the significance if Africans are literally sub-humans? That you cannot perform medical advice?
05:27:56 <pikhq> elliott_: By modern standards, perhaps.
05:28:42 <pikhq> elliott_: By standards of the day, he could have been lynched for being too progressive in some areas.
05:29:03 <elliott_> what does that even mean, he may have been progressive for the time, but saying he wasn't racist is disingenuous
05:29:33 <pikhq> What I'm saying is, he was nowhere near as racist as his contemporaries. Though literally everyone was racist then.
05:30:07 <elliott_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Image:Surface_logo.png is this an album cover or a language logo
05:30:13 <zzo38> OK, now maybe I can understand.
05:30:22 <monqy> surface the album cover
05:30:26 <monqy> by whatever that shape is
05:30:44 <Sgeo> 2d grid on a sphere?
05:32:31 <monqy> I don't get why madk makes logos for all his languages and does them all in blitzbasic and they're all kind of samey in a way I can't quite pinpoint with words
05:32:50 <monqy> where by does them I mean implements them
05:33:14 <elliott_> there's something about american high school that introduces that kind of bored mechanical timewasting in people
05:33:24 <elliott_> i have observed this, like, THREE times, so it must be true.
05:34:02 <Sgeo> Am I a bored mechanical timewaster?
05:34:30 <elliott_> why do you even ask questions like that
05:34:31 <pikhq> elliott_: Most probably.
05:34:35 <elliott_> why would anyone ask questions like that
05:34:52 <elliott_> asking that question practically guarantees you're going to get an answer you don't like
05:34:54 <pikhq> elliott_: American high school is designed to make you think bored mechanical timewasting is "adult".
05:35:08 <Sgeo> oklopol is witnessing the Christian in-fighting in #jesus
05:35:14 <elliott_> pikhq: except that doesn't have any relation really because this is _pastime_
05:35:23 <elliott_> and esolangs aren't particularly conforming
05:35:30 <elliott_> Sgeo: make a big deal out of me messaging him
05:35:44 <Sgeo> No, he didn't.
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05:36:03 <monqy> I don't want to know
05:36:13 <botanq> i made it up on the spot
05:36:22 <pikhq> Lazy K glued to a shell: best esolang ever?
05:36:23 <botanq> remind me to change it back btw
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05:36:51 <Sgeo> elliott_, whatever you're about to do sounds mean
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05:38:23 <elliott> -ChanServ- [#jesus] Welcome! may the Lord bless you and your family abundantly!
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05:38:41 <elliott> oklopol: anything interesting so far????? this is like sports
05:39:37 <elliott> Sgeo: i was promised infighting there is no infigthing
05:39:47 <Sgeo> You kind of missed it
05:40:01 <elliott> i demand logs for my effort :(
05:40:15 <Sgeo> Probably if you mention Catholicism it would trigger it
05:40:40 <Sgeo> Hold on, going to pasta a log
05:40:55 <Sgeo> http://pastebin.com/SA0GALzf
05:41:15 <oklopol> "<elliott> oklopol: anything interesting so far????? this is like sports" <<< ?
05:42:08 <elliott> <luke-jr> oklopol: there are a few Christians here, but far more heretics and pagans
05:42:08 <elliott> <luke-jr> oklopol: such as Eliyahu, IASON, and Free-man
05:42:08 <Sgeo> elliott, a Catholic. Considers non-catholics to be heretics
05:42:18 <elliott> <IASON> luke-jr: i agree only a devil would demand not to burn heretical books
05:42:21 <oklopol> they're just kidding around.
05:42:43 <monqy> elliott: youre a devil
05:42:46 <Sgeo> brainproxy is a sane Catholic
05:42:57 <Sgeo> But isn't exactly awake right now I guess
05:43:06 <pikhq> Sgeo: He believes in something logically inconsistent.
05:43:13 <elliott> oh my god pikhq i knew you were about to fucking butt in
05:43:24 <elliott> the chances that you dont have some inconsistent belief are about 0
05:43:33 <elliott> everyone compartmentalises
05:43:38 <zzo38> I read that the person who invented the BBL/Abundance system invented the word "Kristians"
05:43:38 <pikhq> He also self-identifies primarily by that belief.
05:43:59 <pikhq> elliott: Sorry, I was assuming, thereby making a potential ass of myself.
05:44:39 <elliott> it just really sucks to dismiss people because they happen to be religious, it's pointlessly divisive imo
05:45:08 <elliott> it is not The Enemy of rational thinking outside of extremism, there are far more pertinent day-to-day irrationalities that are more improtant
05:45:22 <pikhq> It's so very easy to do in a ridiculously extremist society, though.
05:45:35 <elliott> Sgeo: so um is hash jesus like a weird extremist channel this is bizarre
05:45:48 <Sgeo> There are some non extremists there
05:45:59 <pikhq> I basically cannot get elected to a public office in my country because I do not believe in the existence of a deity.
05:46:07 <oklopol> elliott: you have a point, but i'm sure you also agree that everyone with any kind of religious beliefs is completely retarded and wrong and stupid and should be killed.
05:46:22 <elliott> oklopol: oh definitely obviously.
05:46:24 <elliott> pikhq: yeah and you can't get elected as president of zimbabwe because you're not robert mugabe
05:46:31 <elliott> pikhq: third world countries, have fun
05:47:10 <elliott> there has to be a bible verse
05:47:14 <elliott> saying that all people are fallible
05:47:29 <pikhq> "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" is close, at least.
05:47:57 <elliott> im probably really bad at being christian
05:48:01 <elliott> its not something i have experience with
05:48:06 <elliott> lets see how long until they RAT ME OUT
05:48:26 <elliott> was picking the kjv translation right i figured there might be some crazies who demanded on it in there
05:48:37 <elliott> dammit, beaten by bible verses
05:48:41 <pikhq> Keep in mind that people just shy of Westboro Baptist Church levels of crazy are considered *normal* in American society. My tendency to dismiss people because they're religious should be viewed in that light.
05:48:49 <elliott> um um gotta save face WOW how do you remember all the verses????
05:48:52 <elliott> being christian is thirsty work
05:49:14 <pikhq> elliott: It's only maybe a few paragraphs that get cited over and over and over again.
05:49:27 <elliott> why would an infallible man sin again
05:49:50 <pikhq> I'd estimate maybe 0.5% of Christians have actually read a significant portion of the Bible.
05:49:57 <monqy> i havent been paying attention and my head hurts
05:50:28 <zzo38> There are some things in the Bible I agree, including that no person is good. Nevertheless, you can say some people are good, by opinion and by relative and by other purposes.
05:50:29 <elliott> <luke-jr> botanq: also, if "all" were absolute there, it would include Jesus
05:50:32 <elliott> i need a verse about jesus just being a man or something
05:50:38 <elliott> quick guys quick exclamation marks
05:51:01 <monqy> didn't jesus do bad stuff one time because some dudes set sold stuff in a temple or something
05:51:02 <pikhq> elliott: Good luck; the bits that got canonized either claim he was *divine* or are ambiguous.
05:51:06 <Sgeo> There's the one where he says why do you call me Good, only God is good
05:51:13 <pikhq> monqy: No, that was considered Good.
05:51:13 <zzo38> However, it is good thing trying be good, you can learn more good stuff than other people maybe
05:51:16 <pikhq> monqy: Not just good, Good.
05:51:17 <elliott> <botanq> luke-jr: if one is still a man, and this causes one to sin -- what is it that causes one to sin, that is being a man?
05:51:17 <elliott> <botanq> is it not fallibility?
05:51:19 <elliott> got my pretentious lingo on
05:51:34 <pikhq> oklopol: That's nearly universally held doctrine.
05:51:53 <elliott> <Sgeo> There's the one where he says why do you call me Good, only God is good
05:51:59 <elliott> i dont want them to htink im crazy
05:52:01 <elliott> but they might be crazy about that
05:52:06 <Sgeo> http://bible.cc/mark/10-18.htm
05:52:16 <elliott> they have fancy definitoins
05:52:25 <Sgeo> "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
05:53:03 <Sgeo> I asked about it once, or maybe I googled it? Saw some stuff about how it's saying "See how you're calling me good? Think about why that is"
05:53:04 <monqy> do they hate botanq yet
05:53:20 <pikhq> oklopol: I mean, shit, even the Eastern Orthodox holds that. And these are people who hold that everyone will go to heaven, literally everyone.
05:53:31 <elliott> pikhq: that's a nice position
05:53:37 <elliott> i mean, nicer than most christian positions on the afterlife
05:53:49 <monqy> hehehe christian positions on the afterlife
05:53:51 <oklopol> pikhq: but everyone else sins?
05:54:07 <zzo38> And then there are people who hold that heaven is not a place, but a feeling.
05:54:08 <pikhq> elliott: The non-Christians will just have more work to become like God than the Christians is all. No big.
05:54:20 <oklopol> like even people who just die 5 minutes after being born?
05:54:48 <pikhq> (they hold that your entire mission is to become more like God; you will be doing this in life *and* the afterlife. If you don't convert before death, you just have more work ahead of you is all.)
05:55:01 <Sgeo> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/UnNews:%22Genetic%22_disorders_shown_to_be_the_fault_of_the_baby
05:55:25 <pikhq> oklopol: Entire libraries could be filled with the apologetics on that.
05:55:35 <elliott> playing minecraft and having fun with christians on irc at seven am
05:56:06 <oklopol> okay #jesus is way over my head atm
05:56:09 <zzo38> You do not go anywhere when dead you do not walk. Other people can move you. You can be destroyed or eaten or cut in half.
05:56:16 <elliott> <luke-jr> "Books which openly oppose the teaching of Christ are to be burned." -Pope Pius VII, Diu Satis, infallible
05:56:24 <elliott> pikhq: is book burning a current catholic doctrine
05:56:33 <pikhq> elliott: No. I'm not sure how it's not.
05:56:44 <monqy> oh right catholics believe popes are infallible don't they huh
05:56:47 <monqy> what happens when popes disagree
05:56:57 <oklopol> elliott: you can't have life choices, you're too youn
05:57:07 <oklopol> life choices are for adults :\
05:57:07 <zzo38> Poples are not considered infallible unless there is discussion in the Vatican about it as well to almost prove it.
05:57:20 <pikhq> monqy: Though they're only infallible on matters of doctrine.
05:57:25 <elliott> pikhq: was that statement by pius ex cathedra ??? i am not sure why i expect you to know
05:57:39 <pikhq> elliott: I wouldn't know. I've never been Catholic.
05:57:57 <elliott> Sgeo: so free-man is one of the loony catholics?
05:58:18 <elliott> less loony than the others
05:58:21 <zzo38> Popes say a lot of things that are not considered infallible, and they can disagree about these things, and do disagree about these things.
05:58:30 <Sgeo> He's a loony non-catholic
05:59:10 <elliott> wow he wants all books that say wrong things to be burned
06:00:03 <elliott> Sgeo: hahahaha oh man he is cool
06:00:07 <elliott> is he from the middle ages
06:00:30 <pikhq> elliott: This is not uncommon.
06:00:53 <elliott> pikhq: i think hes saying he burned satans bible once
06:01:18 <pikhq> What, LaVey's Satanic Bible?
06:01:34 <elliott> is "that book by LaVey" an ok euphemism
06:01:36 <elliott> he seems very touchy about it
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06:02:05 <pikhq> Though it's unlikely he knows about it. :P
06:02:09 <elliott> <Free-man> i dont know who authd it; i didnt read it.
06:02:13 <elliott> i think he burned The Satanic Bible
06:02:16 <elliott> thinking it was actually satan's bible
06:02:22 <elliott> i wanna have him as a pet :{
06:02:44 <elliott> <luke-jr> oklopol: of course
06:02:45 <elliott> <luke-jr> oklopol: freedom of speech is wrong
06:02:45 <elliott> <luke-jr> oklopol: freedom of religion is outright heresy
06:02:50 <elliott> <Free-man> botanq when i saw the book on the for-sale table at a library, i paid the 10 cents for it, and then burned it.
06:04:02 <elliott> Sgeo: do these guys even program
06:04:15 <Sgeo> elliott, I think luke-jr does a little.
06:04:27 <elliott> Sgeo: I take it amigojapan is non-religious
06:04:30 <monqy> catholic programming no devils allowed
06:04:41 <pikhq> elliott: I actually know that for a fact.
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06:04:56 <pikhq> elliott: amigojapan is non-religious.
06:05:15 <pikhq> Ran into him here and there on freenode.
06:05:27 <pikhq> So, not *well*, but we've talked.
06:06:20 <elliott> free-man is a very stupid human being
06:06:23 <pikhq> Mostly ##japanese when I was there for a couple months, IIRC.
06:06:29 <elliott> * [Free-man] (~b@c-68-56-234-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net): ConspiracyLover
06:07:00 <monqy> good name for a good person
06:07:28 <oklopol> Free-man is talking to me in pm now
06:08:11 <elliott> oklopol: oh oh oh paste plz
06:10:04 <elliott> <Eliyahu> all masons , jesuits , knights of templar , knights of malta , catholic priests need to repent and walk away from theri involvement of the new world order
06:10:11 <elliott> * [Eliyahu] (~Eliyahu@ip68-8-234-181.sd.sd.cox.net): Jesus is LORD
06:10:31 <Sgeo> elliott, he's nuttier than that
06:10:58 <Sgeo> elliott, the end of the world is coming soon, and Obama's signing some treaty is.. part of it
06:11:20 <Sgeo> Oh, and I _think_ he's a programmer
06:11:30 <elliott> "This User believes that 9/9 equals 1, but .999… does not." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Luke-Jr
06:12:10 <elliott> ASJFOISDHIOHSDOIFHSDOF WHAT
06:12:11 <pikhq> I sure as hell *hope* he's not a programmer.
06:12:19 <elliott> YOU JUST DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED EVERY RELIGIOUS USERBOX ABOVE YOU
06:12:25 <oklopol> http://pastebin.com/EV955JhH
06:12:31 <elliott> OK YOU CAN JUSTIFY SOME RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AS BEING REASON BASED MAYBE
06:12:42 <elliott> YOU CANT CALL IT REASON ITS PURE FAITH
06:12:45 <pikhq> elliott: Satanism, oddly enough, doesn't require much work for that.
06:12:57 <monqy> how is inherently insubstantiated belief ever reasonable
06:13:10 <pikhq> (helps that supernaturalism is not part of it)
06:13:21 <monqy> people pull an elaborate hoax to make it look reasonable
06:13:27 <elliott> ok so he watches anime, doesn't believe in the separation of church and state, favours absolute monarchy, wants a philosopher king, values reason over faith, and believes that 9/9 equals 1, but .999… does not.
06:13:50 <oklopol> i was supposed to paste that in pm actually, was busy being annoyed at vjn pastebin not working atm
06:13:50 <pikhq> elliott: And has a language box saying he does not speak Japanese at all.
06:14:31 <pikhq> Why you would feel like listing that is beyond me.
06:14:31 <elliott> pikhq: they're irreligious homosexual heretic faggots
06:15:19 <pikhq> "This user believes in freedom of all types of information for all.
06:15:28 <pikhq> But doesn't believe in seperation of church and state...
06:15:41 <elliott> pikhq: and supports book-burning??
06:16:12 <pikhq> And prefers neither SI nor US contemporary units.
06:16:21 <pikhq> What others are there?
06:17:13 <elliott> he seems like a ~traditionalist~
06:17:19 <elliott> and said he supports English English
06:17:35 <pikhq> He claims to be a native citizen of the US.
06:18:02 <pikhq> So he's probably the only person here who knows what a "stone" is.
06:21:07 <zzo38> It is the Wikipedia userboxes?
06:21:33 <quintopia> people probably shouldnt put their politics on wikipedia...it is a good way to attract enemies.
06:21:57 <elliott> <amigojapan> it seems you christians didint have enough destroying one antient library
06:21:59 <zzo38> What is their username?
06:22:17 <elliott> what's the fun if you just antagonis ethem
06:24:10 <oklopol> yeah that was kind of annoying
06:24:38 <elliott> anyone can yell at some christians, the trick is to do it without them realising you're yelling
06:24:41 <oklopol> and Free-man just loves telling people how he can't be offended
06:24:53 <quintopia> i dont really understand how he can simultaneously consider himself libertarian and support laws against abortion and gay marriage...those are kind of central issues to libertarianism, eh?
06:24:59 <oklopol> everyone's so annoying when you haven't slept for a few nights
06:25:04 <fizzie> The good old Finnish units: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_units_of_measurement -- at least the names are (probably) ridiculous.
06:25:30 <fizzie> "poronkusema – (approximately 7.5 km). A Lappish measurement of distance; the distance a reindeer can travel before needing to stop to urinate."
06:25:36 <pikhq> quintopia: Yes, one of the central tenants of libertarianism is "fuck off, government".
06:25:45 <pikhq> quintopia: That quite explicitly extends to abortion and gay marriage.
06:26:16 <elliott> <IASON> lets not talk about a satan bible ok
06:26:16 <elliott> <IASON> or else i will have to ping matiu
06:27:00 <elliott> <Free-man> jason be quiet, adults are talking.
06:27:13 <elliott> Sgeo: can you make the stupid people shut up i dunno what kinda influence yo uhvae
06:27:30 <elliott> also how is amigojapan not banned
06:27:42 <Sgeo> Atheists are allowed.
06:27:50 <oklopol> Sgeo: are retards allowed?
06:27:55 <Sgeo> I've never seen amigojapan act so... annoying though
06:27:59 <zzo38> Is the things discussed above related to Wikipedia userpage and if so what is their Wikipedia username?
06:28:08 <Sgeo> Krynn sometimes bothers me, but not amigojapan usually
06:28:17 <pikhq> 12 miles, the distance of one day's travel?
06:28:26 <elliott> <Free-man> if you listen to Coast to Coast AM, turn it on now
06:28:27 <elliott> <Free-man> if you listen to Coast to Coast AM, turn it on now
06:28:27 <elliott> <Free-man> if you listen to Coast to Coast AM, turn it on now
06:28:28 <monqy> "usually" you regular #jesus?
06:28:42 <elliott> we should listen to coast to coast am in unison now
06:29:10 <elliott> http://www.coasttocoastam.com/
06:29:20 <Sgeo> Ricco is permanently banned. This is a good thing.
06:29:27 <elliott> Only subscribers to Coast Insider can access Coast to Coast AM live radio broadcasts, radio show archives and daily radio show highlights.
06:29:43 <elliott> <Free-man> i just heard a good phrse, "morally reprehensible" -- exactly!
06:29:45 <Sgeo> Annoying guy who always talks about "Anyone want to discuss the history of Christianity? PM me"
06:30:10 <elliott> how many christian discussion avenues do you frequent exactly
06:30:29 <Sgeo> Right now, just #jesus
06:30:40 <pikhq> And why? I thought those people were fucktards even when I *was* a Christian.
06:31:43 <zzo38> O, I found their username
06:31:53 <elliott> Sgeo: so i take it these guys are all religious-right
06:31:59 <elliott> the channel-aligned people i mean
06:32:09 <Sgeo> The ones talking right now
06:32:20 <elliott> politically-right aligned i mean
06:32:35 <elliott> im just considering whether i should try and amass a bunch of biblical arguents for socialism or not
06:32:45 <Sgeo> Um, I know they're all in unison about how bad homosexuality is
06:32:54 <Sgeo> Even the nice ones, for the most part
06:33:06 <pikhq> elliott: I'm afraid not.
06:33:28 <pikhq> Actually, even worse if you exercise it; fornication and all.
06:33:39 <pikhq> monqy: And advocated by Peter.
06:33:40 <elliott> Sgeo: i need to know their personal opinion on famous bisexuality
06:33:53 <Sgeo> Famous bisexuality?
06:33:57 <elliott> pikhq: sexual abstinence =/= asexuality
06:34:01 <Sgeo> I mean, you've called me famous bisexual
06:34:15 <pikhq> elliott: Sorry, right.
06:34:20 <elliott> oklopol: please explain to the kind young famous bisexual
06:34:23 <monqy> surely you know something about famous bisexuality
06:34:54 <pikhq> elliott: Still. Peter advocated literally *not having sex ever* for *everyone*, because Jesus was coming soon, so why should you?
06:34:56 <elliott> <Free-man> hell rides the wind; it is everywhere, has always bin
06:35:01 <pikhq> 2000 years later, well.
06:35:26 <elliott> 2000 years is a hell of a long time to abstain from sex
06:35:38 <elliott> who didn't give up after the first five hundred
06:35:39 <pikhq> I was last up-to-date on Christian music in 2004.
06:36:00 <Sgeo> Is it sad that I've heard some Christian music recently
06:36:02 <elliott> pikhq: i googled and it isn't :P
06:36:10 <elliott> Sgeo: yes its so sad commit suicide.
06:36:13 <pikhq> Sgeo: Not inherently.
06:36:41 <pikhq> There's some nice acapella Latin pieces out there that the Church commissioned...
06:37:25 <zzo38> I found hexclocks are not only Hex Headquarters. There is also the Nystrom version of hexclock and hexadecimal numbers speech.
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07:49:41 <cheater__> zzo38, you need to start speaking english
07:57:29 <zzo38> I do type and speak English.
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08:12:47 <elliott> <IASON> brainproxy: what do you think much of an oxymoron that a king should authorize a bible?
08:12:47 <elliott> <IASON> ie king james authorized version?
08:12:47 <elliott> <IASON> the rulers of the gentiles lord it over them
08:12:47 <elliott> <IASON> Free-man: be careful listening to the AM radio
08:12:55 <elliott> <IASON> anything from out of this world comes directly to you luke-jr|otg upon this rock I build my church
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08:27:52 <pikhq> Is he KJV-only, or anything-but-KJV-only?
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08:53:19 <CakeProphet> I can use GADTs to distinguish between continuous and discrete signals.
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08:55:57 <pikhq> It's 3 and I'm not sleeping.
08:56:11 <pikhq> I suck at this "fulfilling basic needs" thing, apparently.
08:56:49 <CakeProphet> as long as you get a lot of sleep it doesn't matter a whole let when that happens.
08:57:02 <CakeProphet> though sleeping at night is the best kind of sleep for you.
08:57:18 <CakeProphet> I work nightshift, so I go to bed around 9 AM most days..
08:58:14 <CakeProphet> hmmm, so what would be an alternative to using GADTs for that purpose?
08:58:31 <pikhq> I strongly suspect I have some sort of issue here. Every night I find that I'm going to bed later.
08:59:52 <pikhq> This has been a regular pattern for years.
09:00:32 <pikhq> Pretty much the only thing that stops it from being t3h fucked up is, basically, a hard reset of my sleeping time via being woken up at what feels like an ungodly hour.
09:00:35 <CakeProphet> basically: type Continuous; type Discrete; data Signal a t where { DSignal :: (Integral s) => [a] -> s -> Signal a Discrete; CSignal :: (Integral t) => (t -> a) -> Signal a Continuous;}
09:01:43 <CakeProphet> basically: type Continuous; type Discrete; data Signal a b where { DSignal :: (Integral s) => [a] -> s -> Signal a Discrete; CSignal :: (Integral t) => (t -> a) -> Signal a Continuous;}
09:04:23 <CakeProphet> but now say I had a typeclass with a toSignal.. would every instances need two type parameters or could the Discrete/Continuous parameter be supplied via the type signature of the implemented method?
09:05:03 <CakeProphet> class IsSignal (s a) where toSingal :: s a -> Signal a t
09:12:11 <zzo38> quintopia: OK, what did you want, please?
09:16:42 <quintopia> but i forgot that you cant be arsed to reply in a privmsg
09:24:01 <zzo38> I can reply in a private message if you want, but you just wrote "hello"
09:24:08 <zzo38> I have no response to that.
09:25:10 <zzo38> Currently others are not typing on this channel so you can type public in case other people are interested and can view logs, or respond, too.
09:29:28 <quintopia> you are officially diagnosed autism spectrum yes?
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09:37:38 <quintopia> alright, i figured that would be the answer
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09:41:25 <zzo38> Yes I am Aspergers I think it is on my Wikipedia userpage.
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09:44:51 <pikhq> I'm going to guess "in ways that seem utterly bizzare."
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10:07:53 <zzo38> I don't know how that affect my life.
10:20:23 <quintopia> a friend told me today that there are a number of variables involved in such a diagnosis, and that you would likely rank intermediate on speech. what do you do with the extra brainpower that frees up?
10:22:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Pictured: quintopia does not understand how the brain works.
10:22:49 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
10:25:26 <Phantom_Hoover> With people crowding around to hear my interesting and novel opinions?
10:26:46 <quintopia> you got three messages! no one left me any mail
10:28:19 <zzo38> I don't know if it necessarily means extra brainpower is freed up.....
10:34:04 <Phantom_Hoover> 04:42:45: <Sgeo> I wish I could get this person some mental help
10:37:41 <Phantom_Hoover> 05:27:27: <elliott_> erm darwin was actually pretty racist iirc
10:37:41 <Phantom_Hoover> 05:27:33: <elliott_> istr something about ~primitive negroes~
10:38:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes elliott you are either completely racist or completely non-racist there is no spectrum in between,
10:38:45 <Phantom_Hoover> 05:20:42: <pikhq> (which literally did not *exist* at the time he wrote)
10:39:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Mendel did his experiments before OoS was published IIRC, but nobody noticed.
10:41:22 <Phantom_Hoover> 05:36:51: <Sgeo> elliott_, whatever you're about to do sounds mean
10:41:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_ getting flustered: perhaps the best part of any cross-channel trolling?
10:43:19 <quintopia> zzo38: that was a joke. but i am curious how you spend what time you dont spend programming
10:45:45 <oklopol> i'm curious what everyone here does with the time they don't spend here
10:46:12 <oklopol> personally i do math and watch tv shows and occasionally go to the office to play pool alone
10:46:15 <zzo38> quintopia: About thinking about stuff, reading about stuff, writing about stuff, etc. And eat, drink, bed, etc. And other things.
10:47:33 <oklopol> i don't really like two-player games, hard to measure progress
10:48:41 <oklopol> zzo38: have you done more math
10:48:50 <oklopol> i recall you did some math earlier :o
10:49:04 <oklopol> like you proved the pythagorean theorem in your head right
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10:56:44 <zzo38> oklopol: Yes I have done some math, but not much and I don't remember much of what I have done. But yes I did prove the pythagorean theorem in my head once while resting on the couch
10:57:46 <oklopol> i do almost allllll my math headwise
10:58:00 <oklopol> that's the best of maths, head mathin'
10:58:18 <zzo38> O, and once while in school I had calculus class, and math class. In the textbook for math class, there was a page (the teacher didn't mention that page at all) giving the sum series for e to the x, sin x, cos x, so I decided to calculate the derivative of those functions.
10:58:56 <zzo38> And a visitor to my school once asked me to try to prove the twin prime conjecture.
10:59:26 <oklopol> i'm sure you got very far with it
10:59:58 <zzo38> I didn't prove it at all. But I did think of things about it and sometimes even recently.
11:00:21 <zzo38> And I still think about mathematics sometimes.
11:00:26 <oklopol> twin prime conjecture was that there's infinitely many primes n such that n+2 is prime
11:00:49 <oklopol> there's absolutely no way you could get anywhere with that from scratch
11:01:37 <oklopol> of course i suppose you don't really care if you actually solve something
11:02:03 <oklopol> in any case that kind of stuff is a definite nono unless you really know what you're doing
11:02:10 <zzo38> It is possible to get anywhere in mathematics from scratch. However, it is very difficult and many people do not know how (in most cases I don't know how either).
11:02:45 <oklopol> it is possible to get somewhere in mathematics from scratch. it is absolutely impossible to get anywhere from scratch if you take something like the twin prime conjecture as your goal.
11:03:13 <zzo38> No, it is just extremely difficult, I think.
11:03:34 <oklopol> well of course, but the point is it takes way more than a single human life.
11:03:54 <zzo38> Maybe it does. I wouldn't know for sure, however.
11:04:12 <oklopol> a single mathematician's life i mean. quite a few hundred non-mathematician lives prolly.
11:04:30 <oklopol> well it's just how number theory is
11:05:09 <oklopol> do you study something btw?
11:05:32 <zzo38> I do sometimes use mathematics in various situation, including programming, games, and I have even used matrices in accounting.
11:05:51 <oklopol> zzo38: you don't remember talking to me about your matrix accounting thing?
11:05:53 <zzo38> oklopol: No, I don't formally study anything.
11:06:22 <zzo38> oklopol: Not you specifically; I do remember on this channel. However, I was just mentioning it.
11:06:31 <oklopol> more like talking about it for a few hours
11:07:08 <zzo38> No, I mean *this* time I was just mentioning it. That time before, yes I wrote many things about it.
11:09:03 <oklopol> anyhow in conclusion, steer clear of the twin prime conjecture, i'll gladly give you fun little exercises if you like math
11:17:04 <zzo38> I find mathematics useful in programming sometimes. I have also used mathematics to invent a new kind of ability scores generation method for Dungeons&Dragons, calculus to solve some physics questions (the teacher didn't expect us to understand calculus and I was absent on the day they gave the equations), and I have calculated probabilities of various events in pokemon card, etc.
11:17:25 <zzo38> And the magical system in Icosahedral RPG is very mathematical.
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11:19:11 <oklopol> all of that really sounds more like bore than math to me but w/e's
11:20:13 <oklopol> it means i'm not particularly interested in defending my point, not that you'd ever attack a point
11:20:51 <zzo38> For example, do you know what a "mana" is in Icosahedral RPG?
11:21:36 <zzo38> Icosahedron is a solid of 20 sides.
11:21:49 <zzo38> But that is irrelevant in this case.
11:22:50 <zzo38> ("Icosahedral RPG" is simply the name of a role playing game system. Not important to my example.)
11:22:58 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: i often ask terms even if i know them so no one has to know anything.
11:23:08 <oklopol> just open up the definition
11:23:36 <oklopol> zzo38: so what about the relevant part?
11:24:04 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: i was actually going to leave after saying it was too fucked up for me
11:24:09 <oklopol> because it was way too fucked up for me
11:24:56 <zzo38> oklopol: It is what a "mana" is in this system. Is the relevant part.
11:25:35 <oklopol> i thought you were going to tell me about the math going on in the game
11:26:26 <oklopol> really i don't see how any interesting math could have anything to do with a game
11:26:46 <zzo38> A mana is a mathematical kind of thing, similar to working of prime numbers. However, there are only five primes.
11:26:55 <oklopol> well except perhaps proving some property of the game
11:27:00 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: yeah not what i meant
11:27:24 <oklopol> and game theory is not really about games, unless you count combinatorial game theory as a branch of gt
11:27:36 <zzo38> Spells can also be multiplied together and stuff, and possibly one spell to the power of another, etc.
11:27:38 <oklopol> i don't see how there could be a game where gameplay involved interesting math.
11:28:39 <zzo38> The math of spells multiplying/adding/subtracting/dividing/etc is not used in most situations, though. Mana is used all the time in spellcasting though.
11:28:43 <oklopol> well you could get interesting puzzles surely, but an interesting puzzle is still basically a... search party.
11:28:51 <oklopol> mind my insane choice of wording
11:30:01 <zzo38> A mana cost can be described as a polynomial in X with the coefficients being manas.
11:30:02 <oklopol> so yeah games can be fun but good math puzzles tend to be one of a kind.
11:30:41 <zzo38> A spell level is the total number of manas being added together in the coefficient for 0 exponent of the spell's mana cost.
11:31:04 <oklopol> zzo38: and where does theorem proving come in?
11:31:53 <oklopol> conjecturing? restructuring your proof? generalizing it?
11:32:03 <zzo38> oklopol: It might help in some cases, maybe. There is no need to prove theorems simply to play the game, though. But maybe it helps to prove something mathematically.
11:32:47 <oklopol> i'm going to assume you are not doing math at all when you're playing, you are just tediously manipulating objects which are often used in math.
11:32:50 <zzo38> You might be able to prove things about this magical stuff and maybe it might help in strategy or something, I don't know.
11:33:23 <oklopol> my pretentiousness knows no limits
11:34:14 <oklopol> zzo38: you can also prove theorems about go, but playing go is very far from doing math.
11:34:26 <zzo38> oklopol: Actually in most cases you can just think of it in simpler ways and it is not as tedious. But this math makes it possible to be mathematically formal and proving.
11:35:15 <zzo38> There are many similaries between Wei-qi and Xiang-qi.
11:35:18 <oklopol> well i dunno the game, so i'll just stay sceptical no matter what you say
11:35:36 <zzo38> Is it OK to be sceptical then.
11:37:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Also is it just me or has zzo invented fields by accident with his mana system?
11:39:41 <zzo38> "In abstract algebra, a field is a commutative ring whose nonzero elements form a group under multiplication. As such it is an algebraic structure with notions of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, satisfying certain axioms." No, when adding manas you do not result in a mana (you could call it a multimana).
11:39:54 <oklopol> doesn't take a genius to abstract fields out of Q. if you accidentally characterize the finite once tho, i would certainly be impressed.
11:39:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Erm, zzo38, there's nothing polynomial about your mana system.
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11:41:43 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Manas can be used as coefficients in polynomials (or possibly as values of variables). More accurately, multimanas can.
11:42:27 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, there is no exponentiation in it; it's not a polynomial.
11:43:01 <oklopol> yeah if you're not closed under multiplication, polynomial is kind of a weird term
11:43:24 <oklopol> since polynomials are just sums of products
11:43:44 <zzo38> The exponents have to be integers though.
11:44:47 <zzo38> And you can multiply numbers by manas, manas by manas, add, multiply, etc. So it is not a field. But maybe it is a "unique factorization domain".
11:45:20 <zzo38> That is, for manas.
11:45:44 <zzo38> I think multimanas are not.
11:46:03 <zzo38> Unless it can be proved that it is.
11:49:15 <zzo38> The system of manas does have identity element, which is called "colorless" in this system (written as 1 since it is also used the same way as the number 1 in polynomials and products, including products with numbers)
11:50:28 <zzo38> Manas which are neither prime nor composite are colorless.
11:50:48 <oklopol> you have multiple identity elements then?
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11:51:17 <zzo38> No, only one identity element.
11:53:12 <oklopol> well you know because i could've used my "wtf, you have multiple identity elements smiley" o=oO=O
11:53:34 <oklopol> yeah, i have a smiley for everything.
11:56:28 <zzo38> You have a smiley for everything?
11:57:25 <oklopol> actually i can't come up with another one like that, and even that one didn't really look like a face
11:57:46 <oklopol> if someone comes up with a better one, i'd love to hear it
11:58:43 <oklopol> zzo38: did you get the joke?
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12:02:59 <oklopol> `addquote <oklopol> well you know because i could've used my "wtf, you have multiple identity elements smiley" o=oO=O <oklopol> yeah, i have a smiley for everything.
12:03:01 <HackEgo> 496) <oklopol> well you know because i could've used my "wtf, you have multiple identity elements smiley" o=oO=O <oklopol> yeah, i have a smiley for everything.
12:04:22 <oerjan> oklopol: that's because it looked like _multiple_ faces, duh
12:06:46 <oklopol> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
12:06:51 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, how many other smilies do you have for situations like this.
12:09:03 <oklopol> well i have my "wtf, x has two inverses" smiley p=p x q=q
12:11:26 <oklopol> but i may run out after that
12:12:57 <oklopol> /=/ x \=\ would be great but i'm not sure it's very readable.
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12:26:10 <zzo38> I think manas cannot actually be the coefficients of polynomials, although multimanas can be (and a mana can be used as a multimana, so that it is a multimana and can be a coefficient in a polynomial)
12:26:53 <zzo38> But I don't know a lot about abstract algebra so I might be wrong
12:29:58 <zzo38> I invented a character sheet for my character of a Level 20 D&D campaign where you start with no money or equipment. What age/height/weight should I specify?
12:33:28 <oerjan> oklopol: perfectly readable, clearly those are multiple http://internetfamo.us/class/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/tiefighter.png
12:34:59 <oerjan> oklopol: that's just something you are saying to deny blowing up that death star in the middle
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12:43:24 <zzo38> oerjan: What units for the first number? Years?
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12:43:54 <zzo38> What kind of creature would have those numbers?
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12:44:12 <zzo38> Yes I would think so.
12:44:45 <zzo38> D&D does not use metric however.
12:44:47 <oerjan> basically i just blew up a human 10 times
12:44:55 <oerjan> well 20 m ~ 60 feet, i think
12:45:32 <oerjan> and i don't know US weight units
12:45:37 <zzo38> That isn't my character however. I put in different numbers for height and weight, and nothing for age yet.
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12:46:41 <oerjan> `google is this working still?
12:47:06 <oerjan> seems not. but then google changes their APIs like others change shirts, iiuc
12:48:25 <HackEgo> /tmp/hackenv.3400/bin/google
12:48:58 <HackEgo> /tmp/hackenv.3492/bin/calc
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12:54:05 <zzo38> The book doesn't have monster age categories. But it would be useful to have it even in case of not monster player characters, such as the Object Reading power.
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13:03:18 <oerjan> Taneb: is noryshorts just replacing nand by nor in the description of nandypants?
13:03:33 <coppro> pikhq: are you around?
13:03:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Minecraft chests have a maximum density of 2 million times that inside a supermassive black hole.
13:04:03 <oerjan> Taneb: @ is a dangerous prefix in our channel :P
13:04:26 <Taneb> I'll make sure to note that.
13:04:55 <oerjan> Taneb: which means they're not _entirely_ dual to each other, because they treat 0 and 1 differently
13:05:18 <Taneb> No, but I think they're both Turing Complete
13:05:50 <Taneb> I'm working on translating boolfuck into noryshorts
13:06:10 <Taneb> It's the input that's the hardest
13:07:20 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: me is going to be somewhat confused if he frequents the haskell channels
13:07:40 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover says: "about it"
13:08:10 <Gregor> @tell Phantom_Hoover We should just talk like this from now on.
13:10:17 <coppro> elliott: http://www.youtube.com/user/dWhoFan9#p/c/C6995500E1B2A0ED/10/XNplESJ8gss
13:10:29 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: now my question is, where do you find a computer with enough memory to fill up that supermassive black hole chest. especially one which hasn't collapsed into a black hole itself.
13:11:06 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
13:11:19 <lambdabot> Gregor said 3m 9s ago: We should just talk like this from now on.
13:11:26 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: um minecraft chests have zero volume?
13:12:09 <Phantom_Hoover> coppro, I love the part where it transfers into what I shall call forever the Scottish Hamster section.
13:12:10 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i'm just pointing out that i doubt you can get hold of enough minecraft objects to fill it with to attain that density...
13:12:24 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5m 10d 3h 35m 52s ago: I have been looking a bit at your egojoust parsing code and i think you are miscalculating the new size of the program after expansion, particularly if using ({})%
13:12:25 <lambdabot> (you are clobbering llen for a different use) but also elsewhere (ignoring the atoi length). might you not end up looking at unitialized memory?
13:12:25 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5m 10d 3h 29m 30s ago: I started looking because quintopia tells he cannot get ({})% to use with iteration count more than 20 or so, at least if the contents are slightly complicated
13:12:25 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5m 10d 3h 28m 56s ago: *to work
13:12:26 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5m 10d 3h 23m 8s ago: the interaction of this with memmove(prog.buf + i + temp.bufused, prog.buf + end + 1, prog.bufused - end - 1); after a _nested_ expansion when prog.bufused has _
13:12:28 <lambdabot> already_ been miscalculated particularly worries me, that _could_ be the case giving quintopia problems...
13:12:30 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5m 10d 2h 55m 5s ago: actually won't the memmove(prog.buf + i + temp.bufused, prog.buf + end + 1, prog.bufused - end - 1); end up copying the ) as well... _that_ would surely be a
13:12:34 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5m 10d 2h 54m ago: Scratch that last, i cannot read. also the atoi length is of course not a problem. the reuse of llen inside the % branch still is, i believe.
13:12:36 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5m 10d 2h 47m 10s ago: Summary (I don't know whether the previous messages were cleared or not): i think the reuse of llen in the % branch of egojoust.c's parseFile function is a problem
13:12:38 <lambdabot> that causes the prog.bufused to be calculated wrong when using ({})%, conceivable leading to reading of unitialized memory
13:12:40 <lambdabot> Plugin `tell' failed with: thread killed
13:13:21 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: So what's the maximum-mass object you can put in a chest?
13:13:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Many a time has elliott piled my inbox high with stuff that was then lost when it crashed.
13:14:07 <Gregor> Heh, that's a 1mx1mx1m block o' gold X-D
13:14:26 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: I Am the Doctor is also fantastic
13:15:27 <Phantom_Hoover> coppro, it doesn't have Scottish Hamster in it, though.
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13:15:41 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: I meant /each/ block is a 1x1x1m.
13:16:11 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: is the Scottish Hamster the part missing from the televised title theme?
13:17:02 <Phantom_Hoover> coppro, http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/news/radiophonatron.shtml
13:17:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Click the button called "Scottish Hamster" and all shall be revealed.
13:18:56 <coppro> best part of the theme in my opinion
13:19:33 <Taneb> I think I've got everything for the Boolfuck to Noryshorts conversion exceppt input
13:20:54 <oerjan> !underload ((We also have a proper esolang bot)!a(:^)*S):^
13:20:55 <EgoBot> ((We also have a proper esolang bot)!a(:^)*S):^
13:21:09 <Taneb> I want to do input for completion's sake
13:22:03 <oerjan> !underload ((_Could be..._)!a(:^)*S):^
13:22:04 <EgoBot> ((_Could be..._)!a(:^)*S):^
13:22:26 <EgoBot> Error: Expected ) at end of input
13:22:48 <oerjan> O_o Phantom_Hoover hasn't seen underload before?
13:23:25 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, no, but this thing is confusing me although this is primarily due to my own laziness.
13:23:37 <Taneb> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Underload
13:24:00 <oerjan> one of my favorite languages, obviously :P
13:27:41 <oerjan> !slashes /*/\/.\\0\/,\\,0,\\,1\/\/.\\1\/,\\,1,\\,0\/\/,\\,\/.\//********/.//.0
13:27:42 <EgoBot> 0110100110010110100101100110100110010110011010010110100110010110100101100110100101101001100101100110100110010110100101100110100110010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110100101100110100110010110011010010110100110010110
13:27:51 <oerjan> and that's another one
13:33:21 <Taneb> Right, I've think I've translated input from Boolfuck to Noryshorts
13:36:36 <Taneb> And I've had an idea for a simpler one for Nandypants
13:38:05 <Phantom_Hoover> "Nandypants is a dual-tape bitwise language that ended up, completely accidentally, being extremely similar to brainfuck."
13:38:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, you seem moderately nice, so I won't brickbrain you.
13:39:35 <Phantom_Hoover> See User:Phantom_Hoover on the wiki for more information.
13:42:13 <fizzie> Graa, I seriously need to fix fungot.
13:43:35 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, also, were you actually making a Homestuck set for him?
13:44:29 <Phantom_Hoover> "It is currently unknown if BoolSpool is Turing Complete, as the specifications are not yet finished."
13:45:49 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Well, I crawled the pages and wrote a bit of Perl to heuristically HTML-scrape the pages into content. There's not *that* much easily extractable text, though, since quite a lot of it is in images/flash. The pesterlogs (and such), mainly.
13:46:18 <fizzie> I think I'll just bring fungot back as-is for now, though I think I finally located the proper place to fix. (It was even commented!)
13:46:21 <Phantom_Hoover> If it includes pesterlogs then I am making another bot to make sure he's never changed off that setting.
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13:46:48 <oerjan> Taneb: oh hm i think your nandypants boolfuck has a bug
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13:47:43 <oerjan> when jumping between the even numbers in the [ ] translation, the b placement becomes wrong
13:48:02 <Taneb> Yeah, fixing that now
13:48:08 <Taneb> I even have the edit page open
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13:53:04 <oerjan> ^ul ((Happy happy joy joy! )S:^):^
13:53:04 <fungot> Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy happy joy joy! Happy hap ...too much output!
13:53:19 <fizzie> fungot there is another of our bot-herd.
13:53:20 <fungot> fizzie: socket.write lambda self, x: x+x in python and its not maintainable code
13:53:28 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
13:53:42 <oerjan> and the only one to be _written_ in an esolang.
13:53:50 <oerjan> well there _have_ been others.
13:54:30 <fizzie> They haven't been as witty conversationalists as fungot, though.
13:54:31 <fungot> fizzie: fnord?). the queue object should support the following operations: binding a variable x_cfg in a path from inert material to a cell phone...
13:54:53 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
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13:56:30 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: ( which doesn't work... the mere *concept* of language is ineligible.'
13:57:08 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, so wait, who was the little prick who got him taken down to start with?
13:57:19 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, does your brainfuck-derivative pledge include humorous animal themed brainfuck-equivaletns?
13:57:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, yes, except brickbraining those people is pointless because it would just make their brain slightly harder.
13:58:14 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: I don't really recall the specifics. I just saw the "can be used to do CTCP" discussed on-channel and thought "well I'll take it offline and fix, shan't be hard", then managed to not get anything done evar.
13:58:26 <oerjan> i'd imagine it applies to those _especially_.
13:58:33 <Taneb> What about the at least one who has otherwise displayed originality in esoterica?
13:59:04 <Taneb> That was the one I was referring too
13:59:28 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i don't think it was disclosed who _complained_. the staff member who came down on Gregor was plazma.
13:59:31 <Phantom_Hoover> And that's because a) it was made by DMM and I can't hate DMM and b) it was the first one, so it was slightly amusing.
13:59:51 <Taneb> DMM is pretty much the only reason I'm here
14:01:51 <Taneb> I'm going to vote that the text "Well, not really, but h" to be replaced with "H" in DMM's article on the wiki
14:05:57 <Taneb> Also, bye everyone
14:07:42 <Phantom_Hoover> TbH, other than Piet, he didn't really make any good esolangs, but the rest were jokes back when joke esolangs were still funny, so that's OK.
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14:10:44 <Phantom_Hoover> http://the-diplomat.com/2011/07/05/china%E2%80%99s-ticking-debt-bomb/
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14:13:21 <Zwaarddijk> altho' most inter-western debts aren't country-to-country, but country-to-bank
14:13:39 <Zwaarddijk> or country-to-international-organization or such
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14:34:52 <oerjan> ...so basically, we are hipster esolangers.
14:35:05 * oerjan leaves you to scream in despair
14:40:50 <oerjan> I SAID DESPAIR, NOT SELF-DENIAL
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15:18:20 <Sgeo_> Note to self: Stop abusing the computer
15:18:43 <ais523> I think I wrote some of the most ridiculous code in my life today
15:18:43 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:18:44 <oerjan> Taneb: hello again. i fixed your [ ] code, or so i hope.
15:19:01 <ais523> it created a new process, then errored out if its PID wasn't 2
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15:19:32 <oerjan> also, i had this realization the nandypants code would work for noryshorts too if you changed the initial setup to >^< instead.
15:20:05 <oerjan> because then everything becomes dual.
15:20:30 <SgeoN1> So basically, you're writing init related stuff?
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15:20:53 <ais523> it was part of a fake init process
15:20:55 <ais523> that pretends to be init
15:21:15 <ais523> I'm making a sort of improved chroot
15:21:22 <ais523> that hides the existence of other processes as well as other directories
15:21:29 <SgeoN1> My computer is now making very weird sounds
15:21:56 <Taneb> Why oh why did I mentally insert an "out with" into that sentence
15:21:59 <ais523> as far as I can tell, all init actually needs to do is to spawn one process, then just do int s; for(;;) wait(&s);
15:22:09 <SgeoN1> Is there a way to check if it's from fan weirdness or hdd weirdness?
15:22:19 <ais523> fan weirdness is likely to depend on temperature
15:22:23 <oerjan> Taneb: well SgeoN1 _was_ abusing it...
15:22:27 <ais523> likewise, hdd weirdness will depend on disk activity
15:22:41 <SgeoN1> It started after I abruptly moved it
15:22:58 <ais523> why did you abruptly move it?
15:23:02 <ais523> and was it switched on at the time?
15:23:03 <Taneb> Probably HDD weirdness
15:23:13 <ais523> anyway, if you haven't already, now would be a good time to make backups to external media
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15:24:13 <Taneb> Okay, that's worrying.
15:25:02 <ais523> Taneb: there's some history here, Sgeo has managed to break one disk already by acting in a completely inappropriate way after a disk head crash
15:25:08 <SgeoN1> Um, I tried hibernating, got impatient, forced it off. Turning it on boots into grub like normal, but still with weird sounds. Turned it off again
15:25:15 <ais523> I'd have thought he'd have learned to make backups
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15:27:10 <Taneb> I may make an esolang based on football (soccer)
15:28:16 <Taneb> Like "[player] scores!" would be output
15:28:30 <ais523> such languages are either awesome or fail horribly
15:28:35 <ais523> and it's hard to figure out which, often
15:29:10 <Taneb> And input would be "The manager is having words with [player]"
15:29:35 <SgeoN1> Well, that's interesting. Sound does not seem to be correlated with HDD light
15:33:30 <SgeoN1> Going to try some SMART stuff
15:33:52 <Taneb> And passing would increment the the ball's variable
15:34:06 <Taneb> SgeoN1: Like backing up your stuff?
15:35:48 <Taneb> Also, is Deadfish a finite state automaton?
15:35:56 <SgeoN1> Reallocated Sector Count is at Warning. Toolyip says Failure is a sign of imminent disk failure
15:36:28 <Taneb> That may because something very bad is about to happen
15:36:44 <SgeoN1> That is not reflected in Overall Assessment, Whig just says that Disk has a few bad sectors
15:37:16 <Taneb> How much is a few?
15:38:08 <SgeoN1> Value for Reallocated Sector Count: Normalized: 100 Worst: 100 Threshold: 50 Value: 18 sectors
15:38:36 <SgeoN1> Oh, I have 23 bad sectors
15:39:39 <Taneb> I assume it was zero at some point
15:39:44 <SgeoN1> Current Pending Sector count: 5 sectors.
15:45:05 <SgeoN1> No nasty sounds for a while now. Going to turn off and on and see if the numbers get worse.
15:50:16 <SgeoN1> Shutdown has stalled at Stopping early crypto disks...
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15:58:21 <SgeoN1> Nothing seems to have gotten worse. I'm going to take this as a "just handle the computer with a bit more care" sign for today, will work on backups soon
15:59:53 <SgeoN1> No weird sounds for a log while now
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16:11:06 <Sgeo> Holding steady at 18/5
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16:39:07 <zzo38> Do you have ideas about literate programming and/or related stuff?
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16:43:28 <quintopia> do you have ideas on how to brainwash yourself?
16:44:58 <HackEgo> 131) <fungot> alise: why internet is like wtf \ 136) <pikhq> And... WTF is it doing. <pikhq> :( <Sgeo_> Is it sexing? \ 197) <Vorpal> pikhq, Okinawan? Wtf is that \ 236) <tswett> elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. <olsner> wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? <nooga> what <tswett>
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16:51:39 <zzo38> Why does MiKTeX require postscript to print a document?
16:52:23 <Gregor> zzo38: Historical/hysterical reasons?
16:53:37 <Gregor> Clearly hysterical raisins.
16:54:11 <zzo38> It ought to convert directly DVI to Windows printer format.
16:54:32 <Gregor> Which is probably postscript or something closely related ...
16:54:36 <zzo38> The Linux system does have directly DVI to PCL, for printing on PCL printer.
16:54:54 <zzo38> Is it postscript? If so, that would explain why it is needed.
16:57:10 <Gregor> I know that it was Postscript in Windows 3.11 8-D
17:05:21 <zzo38> DVI is very good designed format I think
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17:31:52 <tswett> There are printing formats other than PS and PDF?
17:32:05 <ais523> tswett: Microsoft have their own called XPS
17:32:10 <ais523> which they tried to push for a while, but nobody used it anyway
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17:44:35 <fizzie> I thought Windows used the EMF format for storing stuff in the printer spool.
17:45:38 <ais523> fizzie: perhaps in Windows 3.1
17:45:41 <ais523> I doubt they use it nowadays
17:46:04 <ais523> there was some sort of backlash against metafiles, because the format was really badly designed (you could put pointers to arbitrary memory in it which had to be executed to figure out what it meant)
17:46:31 <fizzie> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/179774
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17:47:00 <fizzie> So it's a setting you can set, whether to spool "raw" (i.e. what the printer eats) or as EMF.
17:48:22 <ais523> <support.microsoft.com> This article applies to a different operating system than the one you are using. Article content that may not be relevant to you is disabled.
17:48:26 <ais523> I'm running a Linux-based OS
17:48:33 <ais523> and yet the article still says something
17:49:56 <quintopia> probably they assume linux users are competent enough to grok the whole article and its context
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18:00:35 <Lymee> You could be administrating a Windows system and use Linux on your main system.
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18:04:00 <ais523> in that case, the warning would be pointless
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18:22:48 <ais523> hmm, a bunch of Catholic missionaries just came to the door
18:22:55 <ais523> which is relatively implausibly unlikely in modern-day UK
18:23:14 <ais523> I answered most of their questions with answers which were unrelated to the question itself
18:24:09 <ais523> just giving random statements of fact
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18:35:26 <Taneb> Well, NewsCorp is in a tricky situation in the UK
18:36:33 <ais523> Slashdot has attacked them with an article whose headline has nothing to do with the summary (the headline mentions 9/11 victims being phone-hacked, the summary doesn't)
18:38:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Slashdot attacking NotW with that headline is hilarious.
18:38:49 <ais523> I didn't read the actual article to see what it was about; it might be something entirely unrelated again
18:39:31 <ais523> anyway, NotW (and NewsCorp generally) are in trouble because public opinion in the UK is so far against them atm that it would be political suicide to do anything that even vaguely favours them
18:40:26 <Phantom_Hoover> There's a long time until the next general election, ais.
18:41:38 <Taneb> Not necasohgodIcan'tsppellthatword. That bill for fixed term parliaments never passed
18:41:44 <ais523> what I think the Government would be best advised to do, and probably will do, is to delay the whole BSkyB aquisition nonfatally on a pretext
18:41:58 <ais523> and then look at it normally once it blows over
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18:43:13 <ais523> there are any number of plausible pretexts, many related to the thing that sparked it in the first place
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18:44:35 <fizzie> Hey, you can nowadays play Progress Quest (single-player style only) in the browser.
18:44:47 <ais523> Progress Quest had multiplayer?
18:44:52 <ais523> also, I assumed it was a browser game anyway
18:45:02 <fizzie> Yes, in the sense that there was a Hall of Fame.
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18:45:20 <fizzie> "Thanks to recent advances in technology, it has been possible to port Progress Quest to run in your browser. You no longer need to download or install anything to play Progress Quest; just hit the button: [Play]
18:45:25 <fizzie> Does that sound easy to you? Well it wasn't; we started with hardware emulation of a 80386-equipped PC clone running a novel Windows XP compatable operating system called ProgrOS, implemented in a clean room in the Seychelles by a team of people who had never programmed before (to keep the lawyers at bay).
18:45:30 <fizzie> Unfortuantely that wan't fast enough (there was too much lag death), so we instead emulated the much faster Cray-2 supercomputer and ran the 80386 emulator in that. But the 80386 kept getting hot, so we switched to a 6502 overclocked at 120GHz with emulated liquid helium coolant, and ported ProgrOS to that."
18:45:55 <fizzie> I think they may be... I don't want to say lying, but perhaps sort of slightly tweaking the truth there.
18:46:19 <fizzie> And it was a Windows program; I ran it in Wine a few weeks "back then".
18:47:12 <fizzie> I think it is related to the GABA receptors, but I'm no brain guy.
18:48:51 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: the WINE people are actually telling the truth when they say it isn't an emulator
18:49:03 <ais523> it basically implements the Win32 API in terms of Linux primitives
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18:49:57 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, sure, that's because it's an emulator of a forsaken child who has been enticingly shown a window and promised freedom if they run a binary as Windows would.
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19:31:56 <elliott> 08:53:10: <CakeProphet> aha.
19:31:57 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:31:57 <elliott> 08:53:19: <CakeProphet> I can use GADTs to distinguish between continuous and discrete signals.
19:32:05 <elliott> CakeProphet: you could also just have two separate data types...
19:32:46 <elliott> 09:00:35: <CakeProphet> basically: type Continuous; type Discrete; data Signal a t where { DSignal :: (Integral s) => [a] -> s -> Signal a Discrete; CSignal :: (Integral t) => (t -> a) -> Signal a Continuous;}
19:32:46 <elliott> CakeProphet: that's literally identical to having two separate data types, dude :P
19:33:10 <oerjan> <Taneb> Also, is Deadfish a finite state automaton?
19:33:28 <oerjan> no, some implementations use unbounded integers
19:33:30 <elliott> Taneb: Deadfish is super turing complete, HTH
19:33:40 <elliott> oerjan: oh, that's even better
19:34:30 <oerjan> (including most of mine. well i haven't _explicitly_ made any bounded afair.)
19:36:38 <elliott> dear logs-quintopia: please stop treating zzo like a circus attraction. thx
19:37:15 <oerjan> Taneb: deadfish _would_ have been an FSA except that the original implementation horribly broke the check for overflow in the case of squaring. and that's part of its charm.
19:37:27 <elliott> 10:37:41: <Phantom_Hoover> 05:27:27: <elliott_> erm darwin was actually pretty racist iirc
19:37:27 <elliott> 10:37:41: <Phantom_Hoover> 05:27:33: <elliott_> istr something about ~primitive negroes~
19:37:27 <elliott> 10:38:11: <Phantom_Hoover> Yes elliott you are either completely racist or completely non-racist there is no spectrum in between,
19:37:28 <elliott> I was replying to an assertion that Darwin wasn't racist
19:38:12 <oerjan> before WW2 non-racists barely existed </citation needed>
19:38:53 <oerjan> perhaps before the 60s, even
19:39:55 * Sgeo curses out LibreOffice
19:42:24 <elliott> Gregor: Why are you holding your hair in your Google+ photo.
19:42:25 -!- Treyno has joined.
19:42:33 <elliott> It's like "hmm, hair, what is this".
19:42:34 -!- Treyno has left.
19:42:54 <Gregor> elliott: I'm pretty sure I was pulling my hair out of my mouth at the time, and it was there due to windness :P
19:43:29 <elliott> "Mm, what a delicious meal of hair. Now that I am done I shall extract my hair from my mouth receptacle."
19:43:32 <elliott> --Gregor's actual thoughts.
19:45:16 <Sgeo> I think I'm going to switch to AbiWord
19:47:02 <olsner> to me it looks more like Gregor is saying "Hey, how do you like my hair? It's real."
19:47:24 <olsner> maybe he hasn't realized that real hair is completely normal and quite common
19:47:35 <elliott> My wig is even more shameful :(
19:49:27 * Sgeo knows someone who wears a wig
19:50:28 <elliott> 11:23:49: <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, also your ban in #jesus has expired.
19:50:52 <olsner> more importantly, he was in #jesus?
19:51:03 <elliott> like rainbows and sunshine.
19:52:30 <elliott> 11:53:12: <oklopol> well you know because i could've used my "wtf, you have multiple identity elements smiley" o=oO=O
19:52:30 <elliott> 11:53:34: <oklopol> yeah, i have a smiley for everything.
19:52:58 <elliott> `addquote <oklopol> well you know because i could've used my "wtf, you have multiple identity elements smiley" o=oO=O <oklopol> yeah, i have a smiley for everything.
19:53:00 <HackEgo> 496) <oklopol> well you know because i could've used my "wtf, you have multiple identity elements smiley" o=oO=O <oklopol> yeah, i have a smiley for everything.
19:53:05 <olsner> elliott: except the comment saying it was "quoted without comment"?
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19:53:35 <Sgeo_> Fucking crap Internet connection
19:53:45 <Sgeo_> Maybe it's the router's fault
19:54:32 <elliott> 12:47:06: <oerjan> seems not. but then google changes their APIs like others change shirts, iiuc
19:54:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:54:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/google
19:55:19 <Gregor> Google search doesn't have an API.
19:55:34 <oerjan> <elliott> "Mm, what a delicious meal of hair. Now that I am done I shall extract my hair from my mouth receptacle." <-- clearly hair is the fnarfiest of all substances, and it is only through force of will that Gregor still has any. which shows we should fear his willpower.
19:55:46 <elliott> 13:10:17: <coppro> elliott: http://www.youtube.com/user/dWhoFan9#p/c/C6995500E1B2A0ED/10/XNplESJ8gss
19:56:05 <elliott> 13:03:34: <Phantom_Hoover> Minecraft chests have a maximum density of 2 million times that inside a supermassive black hole.
19:56:34 <elliott> 13:12:09: <Phantom_Hoover> coppro, I love the part where it transfers into what I shall call forever the Scottish Hamster section.
19:56:37 <pikhq_> Gregor: https://code.google.com/apis/customsearch/v1/overview.html
19:56:51 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, all would be revealed if you read the log for like 10 more lines.
19:56:56 <pikhq_> They charge, which is t3h lame.
19:56:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ur mom is shit
19:57:09 <Gregor> pikhq_: I right, yeah, no FREE API.
19:57:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: but what _is_ the scottish hamster section.
19:57:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Seriously, the link I gave in the log illustrates it far better than I can with words.
19:57:42 <oerjan> <Gregor> Google search doesn't have an API. <-- well output format, then.
19:57:45 <pikhq_> I'm not entirely sure why they *would* charge, though.
19:58:42 <Gregor> pikhq_: The ads on that site are their #1 business, they don't want somebody making lulnoadsgoogle.com that just uses the Google API to do searches without showing ads or sponsored results.
19:59:29 <pikhq_> Gregor: Of course, it'd be trivial to do that anyways.
19:59:50 <Gregor> pikhq_: They do what they can :P
20:00:04 <fungot> oerjan: fnord/ fnord/ fnord is fnord is a mnemonic for doing exactly that. http://srfi.schemers.org/ srfi-8/?
20:03:00 <fungot> elliott: oh yeah, been wanting to do
20:03:05 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
20:06:00 <elliott> That denotes the selected style.
20:06:14 <olsner> apparently, "mod_rewrite loop apache eats all memory" is among the top searches that point to my blog
20:06:23 <olsner> I like the idea of people searching for help to solve a problem instead finding more elaborate ways to create similar problems :)
20:07:02 <olsner> (then again "top searches" might just mean that one person searched for it once)
20:07:36 * Sgeo_ curses out Abiword
20:07:50 <Gregor> Sgeo_: Well, that lasted all of fifteen minutes.
20:08:10 <elliott> today Sgeo_ has: broken hardware; hated software, twice
20:08:32 <elliott> 15:35:56: <SgeoN1> Reallocated Sector Count is at Warning. Toolyip says Failure is a sign of imminent disk failure
20:08:32 <elliott> 15:36:44: <SgeoN1> That is not reflected in Overall Assessment, Whig just says that Disk has a few bad sectors
20:08:32 <elliott> am I reading Finnegans Wake
20:09:51 <oerjan> three disks for muster whig
20:10:09 <fizzie> zem.fi's top search for every month has quite long been "openttd logic gates" or some-such.
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20:10:58 <fizzie> (Though there are often people who seem to be actually trying to play the game.)
20:11:26 <fungot> asiekierkaDS: it would be
20:11:28 <oerjan> clearly today is return of old friends day
20:11:43 <fungot> monqy: how have we just called ep1 with an argument m that halts if it doesn't include the srfi title) etc.? can't we provide the same kind of purpose), decided to wget fnord to see if it helps
20:11:43 <oerjan> asiekierkaDS: fungot :P
20:11:43 <fungot> oerjan: i like the alternative of designing a bf cpu too. ( unfortunately, it's not
20:11:48 <fungot> elliott: i have yet to demonstrate that the sml community has less productive power than the real chunk of meat.
20:11:53 <elliott> `addquote <fungot> elliott: i have yet to demonstrate that the sml community has less productive power than the real chunk of meat.
20:11:54 <fungot> elliott: riastradh is larceny supposed to launch fast?" " why not a wind elemental
20:11:55 <HackEgo> 497) <fungot> elliott: i have yet to demonstrate that the sml community has less productive power than the real chunk of meat.
20:12:35 <olsner> to activate the fun, you just say fungot?
20:12:35 <fungot> olsner: ( define ( foo) fnord, y) .6 fnord, y) with the chicken post.
20:13:00 <elliott> olsner: yes. then you got the fun.
20:14:01 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
20:14:32 <elliott> Gregor: Hey, prgmr has good latency.
20:14:47 <Gregor> elliott: SO DOES YOUR MOM
20:15:14 <olsner> fungot: your previous fun ran out of fun, try again please
20:15:14 <fungot> olsner: and it might well use some fnord or something. they killed a lot of motion in them? second, is there a short way to make a data/ value name
20:15:23 <elliott> Gregor: hmm, the Debian installation seems quite minimal
20:15:37 <Gregor> elliott: It is. Install whatever you want :P
20:15:56 <elliott> Gregor: I'm just wary because there's no "trash the system and reinstall it" button like there is with Slicehost because it's all manual :-P
20:16:31 <monqy> what is it with fungot and fnord
20:16:32 <fungot> monqy: the instruction awe which multiplies every point of memory to use for the next 8 hours.
20:16:40 <olsner> asiekierkaDS: still wrong kind of quote
20:17:20 <Deewiant> monqy: fnord is used for words that occur few times (at most once?) in the corpus
20:18:08 <oerjan> <fizzie> I think they may be... I don't want to say lying, but perhaps sort of slightly tweaking the truth there.
20:20:08 <oerjan> asiekierkaDS: HackEgo creates a random user to run each command under
20:21:16 <oerjan> asiekierkaDS: it's also sandboxed in a couple of other ways, so not very high :P
20:22:13 <oerjan> asiekierkaDS: it doesn't have root, no. i assume.
20:22:52 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ tmpdir.1976 \ тэкст
20:22:53 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ tmpdir.1988 \ тэкст
20:23:12 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ tmpdir.2118 \ тэкст
20:23:35 <HackEgo> babies \ bin \ paste \ tmpdir.2289
20:23:37 <HackEgo> /bin/rm: cannot remove `/tmp/hackenv.2302': Function not implemented
20:23:38 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
20:23:46 <HackEgo> babies \ bin \ paste \ tmpdir.2467
20:23:51 <HackEgo> 1 \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ tmpdir.2565 \ тэкст
20:23:59 <HackEgo> Linux codu.org 2.6.32-5-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 8 00:01:30 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
20:25:39 <elliott> Hmm, I wonder why Debian sudo adds a sudo group instead of a wheel group.
20:25:43 <elliott> asiekierkaDS: new versions introduce bugs too.
20:25:49 <elliott> As in, why "sudo" instead of "wheel".
20:26:03 <Sgeo_> AbiWord at least isn't bloated
20:26:23 <asiekierkaDS> but usually (exception: minecraft) more are fixed than introduced
20:26:29 <Sgeo_> I was only complaining that it kept crashing when trying to read some .odt that may not have even been intended as anything other than recovery junk
20:26:36 <elliott> asiekierkaDS: citation needed
20:26:46 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> asiekierkaDS: new versions introduce bugs too.
20:26:57 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought asiekierka had made a DS when he made that./
20:27:09 <elliott> Yes. That is a thing that happened.
20:27:11 <Phantom_Hoover> And the new version literally did nothing but introduce bugs.
20:29:09 <pikhq_> elliott: Hmm. Maybe it has something to do with how GNU su doesn't support wheel?
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20:30:57 <elliott> What does adding a system user even do in comparison to adding a normal user
20:31:06 <elliott> Just gives it a different UID?
20:31:23 <elliott> And doesn't put it in any groups other than nogroup
20:31:30 <elliott> And gives it the shell /bin/false
20:32:36 <pikhq_> elliott: Yeah, by convention "system" accounts and "user" accounts have different ranges of UIDs.
20:32:51 <pikhq_> Things like GDM use this when listing the user accounts on a system.
20:33:00 <elliott> Hmm, it's a pain that HOME doesn't get set when you do "sudo -s -u"
20:34:14 <pikhq_> There's also -i, which simulates a login.
20:39:52 <Sgeo_> Ugh, the atheist I don't like in #jesus is awake
20:40:16 <elliott> Sgeo_: That annoying guy me and oklopol complained about?
20:43:26 <Sgeo_> Ok, so he wrote only one or two lines
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20:46:36 <Sgeo_> <esaym153> luke-jr: you know of any good zlib tutorials out there? I am too lazy to read the docs..
20:46:36 <Sgeo_> <Krynn> zlib is the work of the devil esaym153
20:46:36 <Sgeo_> <Sgeo_> Krynn, sometimes, you're downright annoying
20:46:36 <Sgeo_> <Krynn> I know. :}
20:46:36 <Sgeo_> <Krynn> Sometimes I aim to be
20:47:53 <Sgeo_> Dropping my laptop is probably not the best thing that could have happened to it
20:55:19 <oerjan> it may not even be in the top ten
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23:14:38 <oklofok> maybe i shouldn't have eaten that cheese
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