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00:12:06 <CakeProphet> is there a tool I can use to auto-generate C++ header files?
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02:15:25 <itidus20> so im applying my unique genius in strange directions as usual
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02:40:53 <itidus20> (well you are ok. hi) or if not.. its all the same.. multicast message is always the best
02:41:41 <itidus20> is lambda calculus like a blueprint to build a computer?
02:42:40 <itidus20> yeah.. nevermind :D. disregard that last post
02:43:48 <itidus20> can i use lambda calculus to add 1 pebble to 2 pebbles?
02:44:10 <zzo38> I have read a while ago, and look at it again today, with no new information however, about the game called Quintuple Arcana.
02:45:12 <zzo38> Apparently it took thirty years and the rules are still incomplete.
02:45:29 <itidus20> if i have 5 pebbles and 6 apples... and i am sitting at the beach, can I perform the calculation 2 pebbles x 3 pebbles = 6 apples by applying lambda calculus
02:45:52 <monqy> do you know what lambda calculus is
02:46:34 <monqy> your questions are nonsensical
02:47:26 <itidus20> there seems to be a signifigant difference between pure and impure lambda calc
02:47:56 <itidus20> apparently lambda calculus on it's own is good for nothing
02:48:48 <zzo38> Play is on the intersections like Go and Xiangqi; there is a river in the middle like Xiangqi; you make scoring patterns like in Mahjong; and you can capture as in Nine Men's Morris. One of the positions on the board is labeled the "state of being" and has certain immunities, some of which are transferred from the card standing there to the rest of the board.
02:49:05 <itidus20> as a human... it is in my interests you see, to make sure all knowledge i have is in some way relevant to things
02:49:06 <zzo38> There are two yellow stations which modify the rules of the game.
02:49:22 <itidus20> i understand that lambda calculus can describe functions at the least
02:49:28 <monqy> lambda calculus is very relevant to things
02:49:41 <monqy> unless you have a bizarre definition of relevant
02:49:51 <itidus20> so that is a connection to functions so i am safe in that aspect
02:51:07 <itidus20> like.. if i say int a = sqrt(25); here float sqrt(float) or whatever types it might have is a function :D
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03:07:37 <itidus20> sorry i got distracted by some stuff
03:08:08 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int)
03:08:21 <Lymee> > fromFractional $ sqrt 25
03:08:30 <Lymee> > toIntergral $ sqrt 25
03:08:47 <itidus20> so, sqrt has an input parameter of type float, and if it is 25, it is re-written into whatever equation it is found in as 5
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03:15:34 <pikhq> TIL that Debian masks the magic sysrq key by default.
03:16:33 <Lymee> That explains why every time I try to unbreak my system via sysrq nothing happens
03:17:02 <pikhq> echo 1 > /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq
03:17:28 <Lymee> Usually the system is crashed by then, so...
03:19:33 <pikhq> Stick it in /etc/rc.local
03:20:49 <pikhq> Note: Technically has security ramifications. Though if an attacker has physical access, he can just as easily go ahead and remove your hard drive, install a key logger, or do whatever else he damned well feels like.
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04:10:12 <zzo38> I got Steve Smith's autograph in Thursday. But it is messy writing and I cannot read it.
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04:15:51 <zzo38> I think abuse of notation is as useful in Haskell as it is in mathematics. I made it to work abuse of notation so that something like $(9) in a type context represents the natural number type for number nine.
04:16:37 <zzo38> (The stuff in $(...) is expected to be Q Type but it is a number instead. But it can still work.)
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04:25:41 <monqy> zzo38: instance Num (Q Type)?
04:26:08 <Gregor> http://codu.org/tmp/drell6-2011-09-13.ogg ACK I'M STILL DOING THESE
04:28:03 <zzo38> That is what I did.
04:28:25 <zzo38> I did write on there, also that it is abuse and not really a proper number and that stuff, but that it is convenient and works anyways.
04:35:09 <tswett> Hey guys! I'm going to make a MOO!
04:35:37 <HackEgo> (__) \ (oo) \ /------\/ \ / | || \ * /\---/\ \ ~~ ~~ \ ...."Have you mooed today?"...
04:35:55 <tswett> It's going to be better than Normish and the NMR combined.
04:35:59 <tswett> Which is still pretty bad.
04:36:22 <HackEgo> There are no Easter Eggs in this program.
04:36:43 <tswett> But I have a plan, you see. The MOO's programming language will be Lua, implemented in Smalltalk.
04:36:53 <Sgeo> `aptitude moo moo
04:36:55 <HackEgo> Unknown command "moo moo" \ aptitude 0.4.11.11 \ Usage: aptitude [-S fname] [-u|-i] \. aptitude [options] <action> ... \. Actions (if none is specified, aptitude will enter interactive mode): \ \ install. - Install/upgrade packages \.remove. - Remove packages \ purge - Remove packages and their
04:37:07 <Sgeo> tswett, wait, what happened to the old MOO?
04:37:09 <tswett> Which I've said before. But it'll be better this time.
04:37:32 <tswett> Sgeo: the couple-of-weeks-old one? It still exists and, in theory, can be played.
04:41:52 <tswett> I've discovered a Smalltalk package that makes compiling new code much, much nicer than I thought it would be.
04:41:54 <Sgeo> WebTV is apparently a weapon
04:42:42 <tswett> I thought I'd have to generate Smalltalk source code, or an AST, or raw bytecode. It turns out that there's this nice "intermediate representation" thingy that's easy to generate.
04:43:08 <tswett> So, you guys will all be allowed to write Smalltalk code. But you'll have to write it in Lua.
04:43:40 <Sgeo> Smalltalk isn't exactly known for security, I think
04:43:52 <Sgeo> So unless only voted-on Smalltalk code is allowed...
04:44:25 <Sgeo> (I don't mean they could affect the underlying OS. I mean it's trivial for a snippet of code to modify anything in the Smalltalk system)
04:47:33 <tswett> Lua is known for security, though. The Lua functions that actually access Smalltalk can be locked away.
04:54:43 <pikhq> `aptitude moo -vvvvv
04:54:45 <HackEgo> Unknown command "moo -vvvvv" \ aptitude 0.4.11.11 \ Usage: aptitude [-S fname] [-u|-i] \.aptitude [options] <action> ... \ Actions (if none is specified, aptitude will enter interactive mode): \ \.install - Install/upgrade packages \ remove.- Remove packages \ purge. - Remove packages and their
04:54:58 <pikhq> `run aptitude moo -vvvvv
04:55:01 <HackEgo> All right, you win. \ \ /----\ \ -------/ \ \ / \ \ / | \ -----------------/ --------\ \ ----------------------------------------------
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05:19:21 <fizzie> `run aptitude moo -vvvvvv
05:19:23 <HackEgo> What is it? It's an elephant being eaten by a snake, of course.
05:19:41 <fizzie> Not quite so clear, onelined like that.
05:19:51 <Sgeo> VVVVVV with cows?
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07:17:25 <CakeProphet> Sour Patch Kids are a soft candy with a coating of sour sugar created by Frank Galatolie. When sour confectionery was first introduced it was not considered a serious product category, more of a children's fad. Success, however, rocketed it into the mainstream. One of the driving forces behind the brand's growth was its success in cinemas, and even now it is a staple for moviegoers. Today Sour Patch Kids is a top selling
07:20:03 <fizzie> Possibly also a "most copied from PR literature" award.
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07:22:44 <CakeProphet> ...but then we're no longer being sarcastic
07:23:30 <CakeProphet> okay that maintains sarcasm axiom standards.
07:25:14 <CakeProphet> it's just universally accepted that sour patch kids are delicious
07:25:41 <CakeProphet> though sour punch straws could use some similar modifications to be made equally POV
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07:29:57 <CakeProphet> if source cereal would be good. I bet it would be delicious. I bet people would buy that shit.
07:33:44 <CakeProphet> A breakfast cereal (or just cereal) is a food made more or less from processed grains often, but not always, eaten with the first meal of the day or sometimes as a snack later in the day. It is often eaten cold, usually mixed with milk (e.g. cow's milk, soy milk, rice milk, almond milk), water, or yogurt, and sometimes fruit but sometimes eaten dry.
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07:35:07 <monqy> sometimes I use orange juice instead of milk/yogurt
07:35:13 <monqy> other times I use milk/yogurt
07:35:31 <CakeProphet> "Chairs are a type of furniture often made from wood, and are frequently, but not always, used for sitting."
07:35:46 <CakeProphet> I didn't know people put yogurt in cereal but I guess that makes sense.
07:35:58 <monqy> orange juice cereal is good, for some cereals
07:36:57 <CakeProphet> Cerealicious is a fast-food restaurant chain based in the Philippines. There are currently 12 branches: 10 are located in Manila, 1 in Cebu, and 1 in Davao. Cerealicious offers Post, Nestle, and Kellogg's cereals with milk and a wide range of additional toppings. It incorporates local flavors to serve Filipino taste.
07:39:02 <monqy> CakeProphet: http://sourcereal.com/
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07:57:02 <CakeProphet> one of the best quality and education sites I've ever read.
08:03:58 <Patashu> I found a robot built to play ddr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlXV8VlDA7Y&feature=feedu
08:05:39 <Patashu> Haha, on his other new video: 'I'm pretty sure this is a 19. Today was the second time I've ever vomited from dance games.'
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09:33:51 <oerjan> itidus21: lambda calculus can do any computation that a computer can do, but you have to encode the data as lambda expressions first, and define your functions...
09:34:23 <oerjan> that's no different from how an ordinary computer works with bits and machine code
09:35:07 <fizzie> But can lambda calculus... FEEL... does it have a... SOUL...
09:36:16 <fizzie> A soul weighs 21 grams, or so I've heard.
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09:37:10 <oerjan> although i am a teeeny bit doubtful
09:38:10 <fizzie> There was this dude in the 1910s who tried to measure the weight of people immediately before and after death, and came to the conclusion that, on average, there was a weight loss of about 21 grams.
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09:38:45 <fizzie> With a sample size of N=6, of which two had to be discarded, and the others weren't very consistent either.
09:38:48 <fizzie> But it's still SCIENCE.
09:39:20 <fizzie> Later he went on to take photographs of souls, too.
09:39:52 <fizzie> Snopes documents this thing at http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp -- and see, it says "Status: True" there.
09:40:19 <oerjan> cannot doubt snopes, that's for sure
09:40:46 <fizzie> (Admittedly the only thing in the "claim" part is "A physician once placed dying patients upon a scale in order to measure the weight of the human soul", but still.)
09:42:09 <oerjan> fizzie: you don't _have_ to ruin your jokes by explaining them, you know.
09:42:25 <fizzie> It's a sort of a compulsion.
09:44:16 <fizzie> Or do you mean it came pre-ruined and did not require additional ruining by explanation in order to be ruined? (That much is also true.)
09:45:30 <oerjan> no, i mean it works better if the listener has to do work to find out what's screwy
09:46:12 <oerjan> of course i did suspect it, since i know what kind of format snopes uses
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11:38:31 <ais523> OK, I have decided that single * for toggle italics, that works embedded inside words, is a ridiculously bad syntax idea
11:38:42 <ais523> using space-* ... *-space isn't so bad, although less flexible
11:38:49 <ais523> but embedded asterisks happen far too often
11:46:44 <Deewiant> In Markdown, * inside `` doesn't result in emphasis
11:46:51 <Deewiant> And asterisks outside code are rare
11:49:35 <ais523> I was reading an article about LR(*) grammars
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11:51:37 <ais523> well, I'd say although each individual context where you tend to have embedded asterisks is rare
11:51:41 <ais523> there are a large number of htem
11:52:01 <ais523> Wikipedia was having enough trouble with a language which contained words with double single-quotes
12:07:54 <itidus20> you guys should cook up your own wiki encoding
12:08:24 <itidus20> oh. that is what you're doing isn't it :P
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12:14:24 <ais523> itidus20: I consider MediaWiki's to be tolerable
12:14:57 <ais523> it pretty rarely false-positives on markup, and it allows you to express really complex things if you want to
12:15:06 <ais523> I consider looking simple to be secondary
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13:42:03 <ais523> elliott (from the logs): if you want to confuse Esolang admins, do what Tekknolagi has been doing, he's been making productive and very useful posts with metadata that makes me think they're spam until I read them
13:45:45 <monqy> speaking of spam, I really like the bots that delete large chunks of text and replace them with praise in broken english
13:49:52 <ais523> (the broken english is to stop them being filtered out by keyword matching, I think)
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13:50:31 <monqy> I don't really know why I like them so much
13:51:12 <Taneb> I was talking to one of my friends today about how it is a very small world
13:51:33 <Taneb> During that conversation, it emerged that it is even smaller than either of us realised
13:52:53 <monqy> and how did this emerge
13:53:06 <Taneb> Turns out, she once got kicked in the face by elliott
13:53:26 <monqy> this made me laugh
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14:06:57 <Taneb> Ooh I've got mail!
14:08:29 <Taneb> I think email has the huge advantage that it is easier to open
14:13:18 <Taneb> Todays Darths and Droids is good
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14:20:20 <Taneb> What was the evil computermabob in the Terminator films called?
14:20:23 <Taneb> Because http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14896330
14:21:03 <ais523> why are ADTs not used more?
14:21:06 <ais523> they're a really useful concept
14:21:22 <ais523> the only reason I don't design them into my esolangs is that those are typically untyped
14:21:47 <Taneb> Not Average Daily Traffic?
14:23:42 <Taneb> Hey, ReactOS is picking up speed
14:29:23 <DH____> I could never get ReactOS to install...
14:29:52 <Taneb> I couldn't get Haiku to
14:31:30 <DH____> Haiku installed fine but didn't recognise my mouse..
14:32:43 <DH____> An OS designed for image processing with no mouse is rather pointless.
14:33:03 <cheater> sounds like you have a laughing fit which ends with a sneeze
14:33:42 <monqy> os designed for image processing? I don't know much about haiku other than I probably wouldn't like it
14:34:18 <Taneb> I didn't realise it was designed for image processing
14:35:47 <Taneb> I just thought I ought to have as many OSs as I could, just in case
14:37:36 <Taneb> I got confused after two
14:37:44 <Taneb> And now my laptop is having repairs
14:37:59 <Taneb> Yeah, I'm easily confused
14:38:15 <Taneb> And they were two of the easiest to use
14:38:55 <Taneb> Windows and Ubuntu
14:39:49 <monqy> at least for my uses, windows was anything but easy
14:40:54 <monqy> it was often a pain to get things working, the ui was annoying, other things I've forgotten by now
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14:41:48 <Taneb> It's easiest to get help with, I find it a lot easier to install software for
14:42:23 <monqy> amusing, as when I had to deal with it, installing things was hell
14:42:45 <monqy> also I haven't used ubuntu enough to have a reasonable opinion of it from usage, but from what I know, I wouldn't like it
14:42:45 <Taneb> We must install different sorts of things
14:44:50 <Taneb> Different people, different opinions
14:44:54 <Taneb> Happens all the time
14:44:56 <monqy> as a disclaimer, what is friendly to me personally is far from "user friendly", so my opinions are probably a good deal off
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15:02:10 <DH____> I tend to collect installed OSes...
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15:16:16 <Phantom_Hoover> <Taneb> It's easiest to get help with, I find it a lot easier to install software for
15:17:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Admittedly, Linux is a much bigger target than Windows, but not to the extent of making me want to wade through Windows' UI and system.
15:19:17 <ais523> even incorrectly packaged things, I find easier to install on Linux than Windows
15:19:36 <ais523> things I have to compile myself, I can understand why people don't like installing those, though
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15:20:21 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: they're not a problem if they're packaged correctly
15:20:42 <Phantom_Hoover> For some reason, people don't seem to realise that there is no such thing as a Linux binary that will just work on all Linux systems.
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15:21:11 <Phantom_Hoover> You can assume that someone running the same distro on the same arch that you compiled it will be able to run it easily.
15:27:10 <pikhq_> There is no such thing as a Windows binary that will just work on all Windows systems.
15:27:16 <pikhq_> This is a much more esoteric fact, though.
15:29:42 <Taneb> I think I'll work some more on XSLT S and K
15:30:05 <Taneb> Thinking about it differently, though
15:30:25 <Taneb> Consider the identity function in S and K, SKK
15:30:47 <Taneb> This can be written, if you are so inclined, as "(((S)(K))(K))
15:31:22 <monqy> so much parentheses
15:31:23 <Taneb> Which makes it clearer what it looks like as a tree
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15:33:39 <Taneb> Now, XML encodes data trees
15:33:56 <Taneb> Which is good, because XLST works on XML
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15:34:11 <Taneb> And combinatory logic can be expressed as a tree
15:34:54 <Taneb> The slightly less... bracket overcrowded, ((SK)K)
15:34:59 <Taneb> Can be expressed as follows:
15:35:16 <Taneb> <node><node><s/><k/></node><k/></node>
15:35:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, are you going to get to a point that almost all of us don't already know in less than ten minutes?
15:36:40 <monqy> has been proven which way??
15:36:46 <Taneb> This way: http://www.unidex.com/turing/utm.htm
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15:39:00 <Taneb> A K can only be completely evaluated if it is at the begininning of its pair thing and its pair thing is at the beginning of /its/ pair thing
15:39:11 <Taneb> I'm not good at the actual words
15:39:28 <Taneb> An S needs to be even more firsty
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15:40:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Reduce any instances of ```sxyz or ``kxy from the top of the tree.
15:41:17 <monqy> is xslt a rewritey system or am i thinking of something else
15:41:49 <Phantom_Hoover> So it should be ideal for SK implementation, although I thought the same about Eodermdrome.
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16:23:21 <elliott> 21:44:53: <Gregor> `cat bin/quotes
16:23:21 <elliott> 21:44:55: <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ egrep -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
16:23:21 <elliott> 21:45:11: <Gregor> Why did he think shuffling /that/ was a good idea :P
16:23:40 <elliott> ais523: i'mready for qgermainewalli
16:24:09 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gecho
16:24:20 <elliott> http://tekknolagi.lighthouseapp.com/projects/81045-gecho/tickets oh good it has a bug tracker
16:24:24 <elliott> Calculations are Imprecise
16:24:24 <elliott> Reported by tekknolagi (at gmail) | September 13th, 2011 @ 02:44 PM
16:24:24 <elliott> The computations use float, which is very imprecise. Must move to bignum.
16:24:48 <elliott> oh nice, e wants people to build it as root for no apparent reason
16:24:58 <ais523> elliott: OK, undeleted
16:25:01 <elliott> "That's stack theory." good lord this is bad
16:25:11 <ais523> grab a copy, I'm going to delete it again soon
16:25:17 <elliott> ais523: amazing; thank you kindly, saved
16:25:17 <ais523> unless you aren't interested after all
16:25:41 <elliott> hmm, I should read my email spam
16:25:45 <elliott> I wonder if it's as amazing?
16:25:50 <ais523> the worrying thing is, I think the spam might have copied from a web page that thought it was legitimate
16:25:58 <ais523> email spam is generally less amazing than that, but not alwayds
16:26:15 <elliott> they're going to send me these emails forever, aren't they
16:26:25 <ais523> do you owe them $10.67?
16:26:30 <ais523> or do they owe you that amount?
16:26:38 <elliott> I doubt I can turn it into cash
16:26:42 <elliott> but it'd pay for any slicehost crap i bought
16:26:48 <ais523> ah, it's store credit, effectively
16:27:02 <elliott> they keep emailing me to let me know that nothing happened, which is expected as I cancelled my VPS :P
16:27:56 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages&curid=1322&diff=24511&oldid=24398
16:28:00 <elliott> ais523: I'm really upset you reverted this
16:28:23 <elliott> it's the twin of [[Talk:Gregor Richards]]!
16:28:44 <ais523> elliott: it was overwriting content
16:28:48 <ais523> on a talk page, it wouldn't have been so bad
16:28:56 <ais523> but it actually overwrote the example
16:29:01 <Gregor> elliott: That's not just logic. That's rellay sensible.
16:29:08 <elliott> it was better than the example
16:29:11 <elliott> Gregor: That's not just the best answer. It's the beestst answer!
16:29:21 <ais523> what if people want to know how to write a hello world in Tri?
16:29:34 <elliott> ais523: they should stop wanting to know that, and start wanting to admire some beautiful spam instead
16:29:58 <elliott> fromDon't get scammed, free report. norwaypilgrim@vignette.com
16:29:58 <elliott> subjectCNN USA breaking news
16:29:58 <elliott> http://seventeenforty.net/
16:30:04 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
16:30:19 <elliott> but then chrome suggested http://seventeenforty.com/ "1740 is a private, members-only,18 and over BDSM dungeon and social club located in Wichita, Kansas."
16:31:10 <Taneb> The BBC News Technology page sounds like we're heading into a dystopia
16:31:12 -!- Jafet has joined.
16:31:19 <Taneb> SKYNET SEEKS IDLE COMPUTER POWER
16:31:31 <Taneb> 1 MILLION EUROS TO FUND WINDOWS CLONE
16:31:32 <elliott> why would you name anything Skynet?
16:31:43 <ais523> elliott: because it's a cloud computing project related to astronomy
16:31:48 <ais523> so they must have thought it was a good pun
16:32:33 <Taneb> LEGAL ACTION ON COLLEGE BOOK PLAN
16:32:37 <elliott> Blagging firms 'get away with it'
16:32:38 <elliott> Blagging of personal data goes far beyond the media but debt collectors and other firms are getting away with it, warns the information commissioner.
16:32:48 <elliott> I can't interpret this as anything other than "blagging" as in blogging
16:33:14 <ais523> elliott: I thought that term was xkcd-specific
16:33:29 <Taneb> According to BBC, it means something else
16:33:33 <Taneb> Equally despicable
16:33:37 <elliott> ais523: is there anything xkcd-specific that hasn't blended into "nerd culture" a bit?
16:34:02 -!- FireFly has joined.
16:34:03 <ais523> elliott: well, normally it's as an xkcd reference
16:34:04 <elliott> Blaggers could be jailed - Clegg 14 JULY 2011, POLITICS
16:34:04 <elliott> What is blagging? 12 JULY 2011, UK
16:34:25 <ais523> the original meaning of "blagging" was persuading people to give you things for free
16:34:38 <ais523> basically, just walking into a shop and asking if you could have some of their stuff for free, and actually getting it
16:34:51 <ais523> some people got really good at it, mostly celebrities
16:34:52 <Taneb> I actually did that
16:34:53 <elliott> ais523: good term, good activity
16:35:08 <elliott> "The system's developers say it runs all Windows programs, but is much faster than its Microsoft equivalent."
16:35:08 <elliott> ReactOS runs all Windows programs now?
16:35:09 -!- calamari has joined.
16:35:20 <elliott> "The venture's project coordinator, Moscow-based Aleksey Bragin, said that the system was almost ready to go from the experimental to the available-to-all stage."
16:35:22 <Taneb> The Portrait of Dorian Grary
16:35:29 <elliott> did ReactOS stop being a buggy piece of crap in the last four years? :P
16:35:42 <Taneb> The president of Russia is interested in it
16:35:55 <ais523> elliott: I thought ReactOS was typically more or less level with Wine in compatibility
16:36:04 <ais523> as Wine is ReactOS's userland libraries, effectively
16:36:13 <elliott> Taneb: In Soviet Russia, the government says that is assassinated by YOU!
16:37:49 <elliott> fromBBC USA: Exclusively for Stay at home Mother cahootdavies@sofitel.com
16:37:54 <elliott> BBC USA is exclusively for stay at home mother onw?
16:38:49 <elliott> "How can you program if you're blind? - Stack Overflow"
16:40:08 <ais523> screen readers are quite capable of handling punctuation
16:40:16 <ais523> although I imagine a punctuation-light language would be faster to read
16:40:27 <ais523> there are blind people who play NetHack using a screen reader and a virtual cursor
16:40:32 <elliott> apparently braille displays are sometimes used for deeply-nested punctuation
16:40:37 <elliott> ais523: oh, there are? I think I had an argument about that in here once
16:40:47 <elliott> ais523: blind from birth, or previously sighted?
16:40:48 <ais523> elliott: well, according to the devteam
16:41:18 <ais523> I've heard that braille displays are a pain to use for long periods of time
16:41:19 <elliott> it's obviously possible for the latter... I dunno how good blind from birth people are at grid-based reasoning
16:41:24 <ais523> not having tried, I wouldn't know
16:42:08 <ais523> elliott: they're going to need spatial awareness whether they can see or not
16:42:13 <elliott> "20-20 vision is required for fighter pilots. I have no qualms about requiring color vision for programmers. Everyone does not need to be a programmer." --Chuck Moore, 2001, who now has terrible eyesight, and still (to my knowledge) codes
16:42:24 <elliott> ais523: yes, what i'm saying is that if you were previously sighted, you'll have spatial intuition
16:42:36 <elliott> so it's obviously possible to play nethack
16:42:48 <elliott> I don't know if blind-from-birth people have spatial intuition like that
16:42:55 <ais523> spatial intuition doesn't have that much to do with sightedness
16:43:03 <ais523> I'd say blind people need more of it, to figure out what's around them without sight
16:43:06 <elliott> [–]sourabhdeveloper -1 points 43 minutes ago
16:43:07 <elliott> How can anyone read your article if he/she is blind? Think about it
16:44:09 <elliott> ais523: hey, you're doing the secret project, mind if I ask you a question about low-level Linux memory management? :-P
16:44:19 <ais523> I don't mind, although I might not know the answer
16:44:54 <ais523> I went and reimplemented mmap-at-variable-location in terms of mmap-at-fixed-location, and also turned off ASLR so that the heap, stack etc have consistent locations
16:44:59 <elliott> ais523: Is there a way to preserve some of the address space across an exec() of yourself? I know I can use POSIX shm and the like and map it back to avoid copies, but since there's no guarantee you can map it to the same address, all pointers could be invalidated
16:45:20 <elliott> so I'm wondering if there's a way to just "keep this memory"
16:45:29 <elliott> and pass the addresses on to the new process (with argv)
16:45:36 <ais523> if it's mapped to a file, there'd be no issue
16:45:49 <ais523> as you could just use the same file
16:45:58 <elliott> because there's no guarantee you can map it to the same address
16:46:02 <ais523> umm, shared-mapped to a file
16:46:04 <elliott> so all pointers inside would be invalidated
16:46:07 <ais523> oh, you want the same address too?
16:46:17 <elliott> ais523: yes, which obviously is not possible if you make a /new/ mapping
16:46:17 <Jafet> Keep respawning until it works
16:46:23 <elliott> so I'm wondering if there's a way to just preserve the old one
16:46:24 <ais523> if you turn off ASLR, that's not an issue
16:46:35 <ais523> with it on, I don't think you can preserve the old one
16:46:45 <ais523> (also, you can turn it off for one process using personality(2))
16:46:50 <monqy> oh no i missed elliott noticing gecho
16:47:03 <elliott> ais523: I suppose it might work, but I'm reluctant to do that
16:47:15 <ais523> I'm not sure if there's a non-hacky way, unfortunately
16:47:19 <elliott> ais523: the usecase here is a seamless upgrade command that self-execs to preserve socket fds
16:47:37 <elliott> but the problem is, there could be from like five megs to a gig of map data
16:47:43 <elliott> and that has to be preserved across the update
16:47:46 <Jafet> What's wrong with my solution
16:48:00 <ais523> elliott: and contains pointers, presumably
16:48:01 <elliott> Jafet: it's terrible and might not even work at all :P
16:48:14 <Jafet> Sure, it might not work in 32-bit address spaces, but those are like deprecated.
16:48:23 <elliott> ais523: yes; it uses a glib hash table, and has SDL surfaces inside -- and sdl surfaces contain pointers you can't fiddle with
16:48:47 <elliott> ais523: it /could/ be rewritten under the assumption that non-relative pointers won't work
16:49:14 <ais523> elliott: instead of execing, what about remapping the executable?
16:49:20 <elliott> ais523: the currently planned solution is that, there's some regionfile code that was being worked on before, that swapped out regions of the map to disk (in Minecraft's native formats), etc., to avoid being a massive RAM hog
16:49:29 <elliott> so, we can just turn that on always, and it'll work
16:49:34 <elliott> and it could be pointed at /tmp
16:49:46 <elliott> or, might just not work at all, if /tmp isn't big enough and you don't want to use up disk
16:50:32 <ais523> well, an executable gets mapped three times (as readonly, readwrite, readexecute)
16:50:56 <ais523> and if you replaced just those mappings, together with the stuff you didn't want to keep, things might work
16:51:09 <ais523> I'm not convinced they would, though; or at least, it might be really difficult to work out
16:52:40 <elliott> ais523: the problem is that I want library state to be reset
16:53:18 <Taneb> Tetosterone poisining typing
16:53:26 <Taneb> Like strong typing but stonger
16:54:12 <ais523> or VHDL, because it's designed to be as like Ada as possible
16:54:41 <elliott> ais523: I guess the regionfile code is the best path, then
16:54:49 <elliott> especially as I'd like to write the equivalent for Windows, too
16:54:56 <elliott> and also be relatively portable for POSIX systems
16:55:00 -!- augur has joined.
16:55:12 <ais523> I'm trying to remember if windows even has an exec
16:55:18 <ais523> I know Windows 3.1 did
16:55:25 <ais523> but I'm not sure if it's been updated for later versions
16:55:26 <elliott> ais523: no, but it has a createprocess thing that lets you keep fds, theoretically
16:55:31 <elliott> hmm, well it might have exec
16:55:49 <ais523> FDs are a bit of a weird concept as Windows goes
16:55:49 <elliott> ais523: 10:41:13: <fizzie> elliott: As for Windows, no, I don't think it has the proper sort of exec; it's all by CreateProcess there. But at least for files you can specify SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES that let the handle be inherited by child processes; presumably that could be possible for sockets *somehow*.
16:55:56 <elliott> 17:07:00: <fizzie> The file thing should work on Windows too, it just needs the proper CreateFile calls. (In particular the SECURITY_ATTRIBUTES needs bInheritHandle of true, and dwShareMode that FILE_SHARE_DELETE for the delete-before-close... and I'm not entirely sure how you pass an inherited handle. Oh, and then of course you'd have to make the sockets inheritable somehow, that might be more complicated.)
16:55:57 <ais523> it likes using all sorts of bizarre lockable handles instead
16:56:32 <elliott> (The "file thing" is another part of the hack.)
16:56:45 <elliott> (We create a temporary file, unlink it, write data to it, seek to position 0, then pass the fd on to the new process.)
16:56:52 <elliott> (It reads all the serialised data from it.)
16:57:04 <ais523> where locking something doesn't just prevent other things accessing it, but causes it to have an actual memory location
16:57:08 <ais523> and prevents it being swapped out
16:57:17 <ais523> Windows' API was invented before virtual memory was
16:57:48 <ais523> (Windows 3.1 was capable of using virtual memory if it was present, but that was in an "enhanced mode", and it had another mode where it wouldn't)
16:58:16 <ais523> memory leaks were pretty easy in 3.1, as memory wasn't cleaned up on program exit
16:58:23 <ais523> it is nowadays, I think/hope
16:58:52 <ais523> 3.1 is the only version of Windows that I actually have a reasonable understanding of
16:58:55 <ais523> I used to program for it
16:58:55 <Taneb> An incredibly weakly typed esolang
16:59:01 <ais523> back before I knew UNIX existed
16:59:09 <elliott> you actually have to free() all memory before exit on old windows? wow
16:59:21 <elliott> I thought that was just programming superstition
16:59:36 <ais523> on DOS, too, but it's more obvious there
17:00:24 <elliott> wow, SDL 1.3 is introducing multiple windows
17:00:35 <ais523> you were also supposed to close files while not using them
17:00:42 <elliott> <JeZ-l-Lee> droidevr - Hi! - check out a new screenshot of development!: http://16bitsoft.com/files/CT/images/Desktop_09-13-2011.png
17:00:44 <ais523> as files couldn't be opened by more than one process at a time
17:00:47 <elliott> everyone click on that and look at the code header
17:01:17 <ais523> I did, it doesn't seem too out of place
17:01:18 <itidus20> my holy poop on a stick was for sdl 1.3
17:01:49 <elliott> http://16bitsoft.com/T-Crisis3AI--HTML5/advertising/T-C3AI-HTML5-Title.png oh my god
17:01:58 <ais523> have you not seen ASCII art code headers before?
17:02:05 <elliott> ais523: not ones /that/ gratuitous
17:02:10 <Jafet> elliott has never opened nfo files
17:02:15 <elliott> ais523: and I tend to avoid them, because I tend to try and not read awful code
17:02:21 <calamari> lol that's tame compared to most
17:02:22 <elliott> Jafet: nfo files don't go through cc!
17:03:10 <elliott> This company was created in 2010 by Autistic Savant game programmer JeZ+Lee.
17:03:10 <elliott> JeZ+Lee is most widely recognized for his game "T-Crisis 100%" for Palm® OS PDAs/SmartPhones.
17:03:10 <elliott> Originally offered to E.A.Games® for $4,000, E.A. did not publish it.
17:03:10 <elliott> E.A. then proceeded to sue JeZ+Lee and force him not to distribute the game for a profit.
17:03:10 <elliott> JeZ+Lee thought a while and then published the game as freeware on cnet®'s Download.com site.
17:03:11 <Jafet> Neither do comments
17:03:12 <elliott> The game became a #1 smash hit, with a total of 500,000+ downloads before E.A. sued cnet®.
17:03:14 <elliott> cnet® was unfortunately forced to stop distributing "T-Crisis 100%".
17:03:21 <elliott> But he continued forward, making more games...
17:03:40 <ais523> "JeZ+Lee" is one person? it sounds like the name that two people would have
17:03:43 <elliott> everyone should have to make their comments valid C
17:03:56 <calamari> I liked the multiple page scrolling ansi bbs ads back in the day
17:03:58 <elliott> /* FIXME("total hack"); */
17:04:01 <elliott> in a header file somewhere:
17:04:07 <elliott> /* void FIXME(char *s) {} */
17:04:24 <Jafet> No, comments are for profanity
17:04:42 <itidus20> calamari: i like those extra files included with video games.
17:04:47 <Taneb> In this esolang, the epoch of the date type is the Assassination of Julius Ceasar
17:05:02 <Jafet> I guess you could do #define the \ #define fucking
17:05:13 <itidus20> for instance, the original advert of quake was included with commander keen
17:05:50 <elliott> maybe you can enable comment execution
17:05:59 <elliott> /* void FIXME(char *s) { puts("Fixed it yet?"); } */
17:06:09 <elliott> then the generated code is even included at runtime :P
17:06:27 <ais523> stop suggesting standard INTERCAL features
17:06:33 <itidus20> elliott: jez+lee includes a souped up car engine with their code
17:06:56 <elliott> ais523: maybe I need to start using intercal
17:07:51 <ais523> it's not normally a very /useful/ command, but it's there
17:07:53 <itidus20> i did a search, this is what jez+lee gives you: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3525/3203910088_031a3b9a7a_z.jpg
17:08:24 <elliott> 02:43:02: <itidus20> if i have..
17:08:24 <elliott> 02:43:12: <itidus20> 6 pebbles
17:08:25 <elliott> 02:43:20: <itidus20> and i am at the beach
17:08:25 <elliott> 02:43:48: <itidus20> can i use lambda calculus to add 1 pebble to 2 pebbles?
17:08:25 <elliott> no. this is a famously unsolvable problem. ask oerjan
17:08:38 <ais523> it's up there with DO ABSTAIN FROM REINSTATING as methods to break your program very quickly
17:09:03 <elliott> 02:45:29: <itidus20> if i have 5 pebbles and 6 apples... and i am sitting at the beach, can I perform the calculation 2 pebbles x 3 pebbles = 6 apples by applying lambda calculus
17:09:04 <elliott> it is illegal to use lambda calculus at the beach, at least from the 90s onwards in most european countries and the USA
17:09:33 <itidus20> you crazy log reading bastards i infer that you have literally no life outside of irc
17:09:33 <Taneb> This program language I'm making is weakly typed but doesn't convert types at all
17:09:48 <elliott> itidus20: it only takes like half an hour a day
17:10:16 <Taneb> '9' + 8 equals 'A' or 65, depending on context
17:10:24 <Jafet> Normal people do other things during that time, like go to the beach to perform lambda calculus.
17:10:28 <itidus20> elliott: ok suppose i asked... did i describe applied calculus there?
17:10:40 <elliott> itidus20: calculus does indeed mean pebble
17:11:06 <ais523> elliott: I think the etymology is in the individual stones on abaci, isn't it?
17:11:40 <elliott> 04:26:08: <Gregor> http://codu.org/tmp/drell6-2011-09-13.ogg ACK I'M STILL DOING THESE
17:12:38 <monqy> http://16bitsoft.com/T-Crisis3AI--HTML5/T-Crisis3AI.html this is great
17:12:41 <elliott> 07:39:02: <monqy> CakeProphet: http://sourcereal.com/
17:12:55 <monqy> sourcereal.com is also great
17:12:57 <Taneb> itidus20: Lambda calculus is like making a box out of pebbles, and when you put n apples in, it gives you 3n apples
17:13:19 <elliott> monqy: lame, that's not a compilation from SDL/C
17:13:27 <Taneb> That would be λn.3n
17:13:33 <monqy> elliott: the about button is good
17:13:51 <elliott> λn. mult 3 n, given appropriate definitions of mult and 3, yes
17:13:52 <itidus20> Taneb: a black box with stylized input chutes and dispensors?
17:13:54 <oklopol> so this weird rant of itidus20 that's been going on for days, is it about lc only being tc but not quite bf complete?
17:13:55 <ais523> Taneb: now you just need some rot and some string, and it's TC
17:14:03 <elliott> oklopol: no, it's about him not having any idea what LC is
17:14:20 <elliott> oklopol: and mumbling something about how it must only be useful in its "impure" form, which means with primitive functions not defined in LC, because he doesn't understand it
17:14:23 <oklopol> it seems he was of the opinion you need addition or it's just pointless
17:14:33 <ais523> if you know what a higher-order function is, lambda calculus is pretty easy to understand
17:14:40 <ais523> although it's a little harder to see why it's useful
17:14:45 <elliott> this is because he's reading random snippets of wikipedia articles, or something, in lieu of actually trying to read something about the lambda calculus
17:14:59 <oklopol> kind of how all you want to do is rape parrots, bf is only useful in its impure form where you have the rape a parrot command
17:15:11 <elliott> (why does this one have its title shown twice, and why does it say "edit conflict" on blank summaries and ask for another captcha?)
17:15:30 <Taneb> But the beuaty of lambda calculus is when you've got a pepplebox that when you put a pepplebox in it...
17:15:38 <ais523> it's probably the editfilter extension
17:15:38 <Taneb> GIVES YOU A DIFFERENT PEBBLEBOX
17:15:46 <elliott> ais523: I mean, that editor
17:15:50 <ais523> which can be set to do all sorts of nasty things to what it thinks might be spambots
17:15:50 <Taneb> Or the same pepplebox
17:16:28 <ais523> last I checked, the "instantly ban and desysop" setting was disabled in the configuration, but it's fun to know it exists
17:16:47 <elliott> 11:46:44: <Deewiant> In Markdown, * inside `` doesn't result in emphasis
17:16:47 <elliott> 11:46:51: <Deewiant> And asterisks outside code are rare
17:16:49 <elliott> Deewiant: The problem is more underscores
17:16:53 <itidus20> umm... i have some more LC info to ruminate anyway so it should be ok
17:16:56 <elliott> foo_bar_baz DTWrongT in markdown by default
17:17:01 <elliott> github's markdown derivative fixes that, though
17:17:16 <monqy> i'm tempted to make a language about pebble boxes but it;d probably be so bad
17:17:22 <ais523> (as in, you need server access to undisable it)
17:17:30 <itidus20> well LC is about functions right?
17:17:42 <ais523> so how did Markdown end up as *italics* _bold_ anyway?
17:17:48 <Deewiant> elliott: Underscores outside code are rare
17:17:51 <elliott> 13:42:03: <ais523> elliott (from the logs): if you want to confuse Esolang admins, do what Tekknolagi has been doing, he's been making productive and very useful posts with metadata that makes me think they're spam until I read them
17:17:52 <monqy> itidus20: no it's about beaches and apples and pebbles and boxes
17:17:54 <ais523> more usual is *bold* /italic/ _underlined_
17:17:55 <elliott> ais523: gecho is productive and very useful?
17:18:00 <elliott> <ais523> so how did Markdown end up as *italics* _bold_ anyway?
17:18:12 <ais523> oh, the page I was looking at was italicising on **
17:18:15 <Deewiant> How it's rendered is up to the CSS
17:18:19 <elliott> or __bold__, even, I dunno
17:18:26 <itidus20> and i think I understand functions in general. y = f(m,x,c) .. int main(void) ... int add(int a, int b).. etc
17:18:26 <ais523> so it must have been some weird CSS involved
17:18:29 <Deewiant> And yes, *_ are interchangable
17:18:34 <elliott> Deewiant: Nobody has ever bought em vs. strong and nobody ever will :P
17:18:41 <monqy> itidus20: _you're doing it wrong_
17:18:45 <elliott> Even the html5 guys admit it's bullshit, I think b and i are now the recommended tags for that
17:18:46 <Deewiant> Well, not interchangeable, they have to match
17:18:50 <ais523> elliott: I use them if I remember and I'm writing a website rather than commenting on one
17:19:03 <oklopol> those are functiony things
17:19:13 <elliott> monqy: let's let oklopol teach
17:19:18 <Deewiant> elliott: Aren't they just renaming em and strong
17:19:33 <ais523> having two different syntaxes for one thing that aren't part of two different sets is awful and abhorrent
17:19:36 <itidus20> as far as i know, a function is a set of zero or more parameters which is rewritten into the invoking/calling expression in some way
17:19:43 <ais523> as in, I can understand, say, ''italic'' versus <i>italic</i>
17:19:50 <ais523> but not *italic* versus _italic_
17:19:56 <oklopol> itidus20: for various meanings of what you just said, yes
17:20:05 <Taneb> In lambda calculus, function have to have EXACTLY ONE, unless you do currying
17:20:05 <ais523> elliott: underscores are pretty common in usernames, that isn't programming
17:20:19 <elliott> ais523: I never said foo_bar_baz dtrt
17:20:42 <Taneb> Currying is a sneaky way of making a 1-input function act like a multi-input function
17:20:47 <ais523> Taneb: try not to take that too literally
17:21:00 <ais523> ICA didn't have any way to take elements from tuples for ages, because they existed
17:21:05 <ais523> *although they existed
17:21:16 <elliott> 14:33:42: <monqy> os designed for image processing? I don't know much about haiku other than I probably wouldn't like it
17:21:23 <ais523> in the end, I relented and added the "\(x,y) -> x" syntax that everyone assumed was obvious
17:21:28 <elliott> monqy: I've never heard that before; it's just BeOS' open-source successor
17:21:34 <itidus20> so currying basically means nesting functions without any kind of processing between the nestings
17:21:37 <ais523> oklopol: indeed, there's just not much of a point
17:21:56 <ais523> when currying always works, and if you have tuples they work too
17:22:04 <itidus20> the whole λm.(λx.(λc.( ... )))
17:22:10 <monqy> elliott: If I remembered who said image processing I'd be eyeing him/her suspiciously
17:22:13 <Taneb> That's the ticket, itidus20
17:22:24 <elliott> monqy: DHridiculousamountsofunderscores
17:22:31 <oklopol> well certainly no point in adding functions that can't be curried, i just mean the syntax
17:23:11 <ais523> `greplogs image processing
17:23:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: greplogs: not found
17:23:13 <itidus20> if you couldn't curry then i can imagine you would run into a great deal of trouble
17:23:32 -!- zzo38 has joined.
17:23:34 <Taneb> Currying is practically the whole point of λcalculus
17:23:44 <zzo38> I think the real-time-clock in my computer is slow
17:23:45 <elliott> 15:17:21: <Phantom_Hoover> Admittedly, Linux is a much bigger target than Windows, but not to the extent of making me want to wade through Windows' UI and system.
17:23:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: A much bigger target than eh?
17:23:57 <elliott> ais523: ooh, greplogs sounds useful
17:24:03 <elliott> ais523: I'll have to ask Gregor to install an appropriate symlink to the logs
17:24:03 <oklopol> i don't know what it would mean not to have currying in lc
17:24:14 <monqy> oklopol: a great deal of trouble
17:24:20 <ais523> elliott: I was pretending it existed in the hope someone would implement it
17:24:26 <ais523> (also, I'm used to !grepsrc in #nethack)
17:24:37 <zzo38> I do want to grep logs as well
17:25:03 <elliott> Gregor: Can you just install a symlink into HackEgo? :P
17:25:19 <elliott> Just add a symlink from the glogbot esoteric logs directory into /usr/share/logs.
17:25:22 <Gregor> HackEgo is in a chroot.
17:25:25 <oklopol> i mean i don't know what that means, unless you have that \x y -> something shorthand
17:25:29 <elliott> Can't chroots have symlinks to outside them?
17:25:40 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
17:25:59 <oklopol> meant to say i literally don't know what that means, now i just repeated what i said earlier
17:26:30 <Taneb> λ calculus without currying would be like SKI combinatory logic without S
17:26:31 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /var/irclogs: No such file or directory
17:26:35 <itidus20> perhaps currying is just a nice application of LC
17:26:39 <elliott> Gregor: Grossest dirname possible :P
17:27:03 <zzo38> Is read-only mirror possible through a device driver or something like that?
17:27:07 <oklopol> what do you mean by currying?
17:27:14 <ais523> elliott: worse than /bin/irclogs?
17:27:20 <ais523> or /lost+found/irclogs?
17:27:26 <HackEgo> _ai \ _corewars \ _esoteric \ _esoteric-minecraft \ _glogbot \ _matrixofsolidity \ _plof \ _scapegoat \ index.php \ log \ log.css \ log.js \ raw \ stalker.php
17:27:28 <Taneb> I think I may have to go now
17:27:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: TTFN).
17:27:34 <elliott> I'm working on the script now
17:27:51 <zzo38> `ls /var/irclogs/_esoteric
17:27:53 <HackEgo> 2003-01-18-raw.txt \ 2003-01-18.txt \ 2003-01-19-raw.txt \ 2003-01-19.txt \ 2003-01-20-raw.txt \ 2003-01-20.txt \ 2003-01-21-raw.txt \ 2003-01-21.txt \ 2003-01-22-raw.txt \ 2003-01-22.txt \ 2003-01-23-raw.txt \ 2003-01-23.txt \ 2003-01-24-raw.txt \ 2003-01-24.txt \ 2003-01-25-raw.txt \ 2003-01-25.txt \ 2003-01-26-raw.txt
17:27:59 <itidus20> lets forget it for now... i can do some study on it and return again with more ridiculous analgoies
17:28:21 <elliott> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/log
17:28:33 <elliott> `run echo 'egrep -i -- "$1" /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1' >>bin/log
17:28:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/log
17:28:53 <zzo38> Gregor: Another thing about the IRC logs: It doesn't log QUIT messages. I think I understand the reason why it doesn't do that in individual channel logs, but it still ought to be cvorrected.
17:28:56 <elliott> That'll probably not terminate :P
17:29:09 <HackEgo> /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2009-07-07.txt:04:06:48: <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh
17:29:16 <elliott> ais523: Tada, except ugly filename
17:29:21 <elliott> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/log
17:29:29 <elliott> `run echo 'cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric' >>bin/log
17:29:30 <oklopol> i really don't know what it means in lc context since in the usual syntax, functions just have one arg, currying is just a name for the definition that \x y -> z means \x -> \y -> z. but what else could it mean in lc
17:29:39 <elliott> `run echo 'egrep -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1' >>bin/log
17:29:44 <HackEgo> chmod: cannot access `log': No such file or directory
17:30:05 <HackEgo> 2010-11-15.txt:22:57:22: <ais523> Brainfuck would be a great asteroid name
17:30:09 <ais523> oklopol: if you have tuples, currying is a function of type ((a, b) -> c) -> (a -> b -> c)
17:30:21 <elliott> `run cat /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1
17:30:30 <oklopol> that means even less in lc context
17:30:35 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v
17:30:43 <lambdabot> forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c
17:30:47 <zzo38> Gregor: Are you capable of correcting the problem I ask you about, please?
17:31:23 <oklopol> yeah it certainly means that in haskell, but people also say functions are curried in haskell
17:31:28 <elliott> ais523: Do you know a good data structure for regexp-grepping like a hundred megs of text? :P
17:31:38 <ais523> `run cat `echo /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1` | shuf -n 1
17:32:00 <elliott> there's an easier way to do that
17:32:08 <elliott> `run shuf -en 1 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt
17:32:10 <Jafet> Well, that depends on whether you're making a data structure for the text or the regexp
17:32:10 <HackEgo> /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2006-09-11.txt
17:32:18 <elliott> `run shuf -n 1 `shuf -en 1 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt`
17:32:20 <HackEgo> 22:16:42: <oklopol> counterpart number...
17:32:22 <ais523> elliott: oh right, spaces versus newlines
17:32:23 <elliott> `run shuf -n 1 `shuf -en 1 /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt`
17:32:25 <HackEgo> 19:14:57: <AnMaster> ais523, anyway what is worse in this case (which is horrible php code), is that while pdo is supposed to be an abstraction layer, it is kind of useless when it returns mysql blobs as strings and postgresql bytea as streams
17:32:30 <elliott> ais523: it's not a very accurate shuffler though
17:32:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/log
17:32:44 <ais523> it's not massively inaccurate
17:32:53 <ais523> probably about as good as Wikipedia's random page thing
17:33:09 <HackEgo> 2011-02-07.txt:19:17:34: <Vorpal> !bfjoust test (>[-].)*20
17:33:45 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/fdRJ
17:33:46 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:33:46 URL:http://sprunge.us/fdRJ [185] -> "fdRJ" [1]
17:33:51 <elliott> `run mv fdRJ bin/log; chmod +x bin/log
17:33:53 <ais523> elliott: oh, miscellaneous thing that annoys me about darcs: it interprets SIGPIPE as an error
17:33:57 <HackEgo> 2008-03-29.txt:11:52:14: <AnMaster> heh
17:34:02 <HackEgo> 2011-07-14.txt:05:52:36: <elliott> coppro: This is Haskell, we expect multipage blog posts :)
17:34:11 <HackEgo> 2011-07-14.txt:05:52:36: <elliott> coppro: This is Haskell, we expect multipage blog posts :)
17:34:41 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ 10 \ 11 \ 12 \ 13 \ 14 \ 15 \ 16 \ 17 \ 18 \ 19 \ 20 \ 21 \ 22 \ 23 \ 24 \ 25 \ 26 \ 27 \ 28 \ 29 \ 30 \ 31 \ 32 \ 33 \ 34 \ 35 \ 36 \ 37 \ 38 \ 39 \ 40 \ 41 \ 42 \ 43 \ 44 \ 45 \ 46 \ 47 \ 48 \ 49 \ 50 \ 51 \ 52 \ 53 \ 54 \ 55 \ 56 \ 57 \ 58 \ 59 \ 60 \ 61 \ 62 \ 63 \ 64 \ 65 \ 66 \ 67
17:34:47 <ais523> `log denotational semantics
17:34:48 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27534
17:34:51 <HackEgo> 2010-12-29.txt:23:25:33: <elliott> someone did some denotational semantics thing
17:35:05 <Gregor> <zzo38> Gregor: Are you capable of correcting the problem I ask you about, please? // I am aware of the problem. I am not aware of why it happens, and so not easily able to fix it.
17:35:17 <HackEgo> 2007-05-28.txt:00:52:00: <oerjan> no arms, no biscuit
17:35:29 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:17:28:49: <elliott> `log hello
17:35:29 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/QHHG
17:35:30 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:35:30 URL:http://sprunge.us/QHHG [231] -> "QHHG" [1]
17:35:40 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:26: <monqy> `log `log
17:35:42 <elliott> `run mv QHHG bin/pastelog; chmod +x bin/pastelog
17:35:50 <elliott> `run mv bin/pastelog bin/pastelogs
17:35:52 <HackEgo> 2010-02-19.txt:18:58:26: <Deewiant> If it weren't then it wouldn't be harder than the short, which wouldn't make much sense. :-P
17:35:58 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi | paste'
17:36:22 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/AiQB
17:36:23 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:36:23 URL:http://sprunge.us/AiQB [233] -> "AiQB" [1]
17:36:28 <elliott> `run mv AiQB bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs
17:36:33 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi) | paste'
17:37:08 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/gRjb
17:37:09 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:37:09 URL:http://sprunge.us/gRjb [236] -> "gRjb" [1]
17:37:14 <elliott> `run mv gRjb bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs
17:37:18 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi) | paste'
17:37:31 <elliott> `run mv gRjb bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs
17:37:33 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `gRjb': No such file or directory
17:37:36 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: syntax error near unexpected token `fi' \ /hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 9: ` fi; } | paste'
17:37:49 <elliott> ais523: what terminates a for loop in bash?
17:38:08 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/cOYQ
17:38:09 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:38:09 URL:http://sprunge.us/cOYQ [233] -> "cOYQ" [1]
17:38:14 <elliott> `run mv cOYQ bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs
17:38:21 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8704
17:38:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:38:36 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13247
17:38:51 <elliott> Oh, hmm, it should take a count
17:38:57 <monqy> `log `log `log `log `log `log
17:39:00 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:17:38:57: <monqy> `log `log `log `log `log `log
17:39:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/paste
17:39:16 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/quote
17:39:45 <monqy> `pastelogs looking ghostly
17:39:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15915
17:39:51 <elliott> monqy: how many random logs by default?
17:39:56 <elliott> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13247 this is twenty
17:40:20 <monqy> i like how at the end of your `pastelogs death
17:40:25 <monqy> 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:56: <elliott> `pastelogs death
17:40:25 <monqy> 2011-09-13.txt:17:36:32: <elliott> `pastelogs death
17:40:25 <monqy> 2011-09-13.txt:17:37:16: <elliott> `pastelogs death
17:40:25 <monqy> 2011-09-13.txt:17:37:35: <elliott> `pastelogs death
17:40:27 <monqy> 2011-09-13.txt:17:38:17: <elliott> `pastelogs death
17:40:40 <monqy> it is a nice touch
17:40:45 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/PGWL
17:40:46 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:40:46 URL:http://sprunge.us/PGWL [362] -> "PGWL" [1]
17:40:54 <elliott> `run mv PGWL bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs
17:41:06 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15857
17:41:20 <elliott> `run mv PGWL bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs
17:41:22 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `PGWL': No such file or directory
17:41:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12648
17:41:43 <elliott> I like how absurd http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15857 is
17:42:03 <elliott> although its paste-forty mode is quite thoroughly slow
17:42:10 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30821
17:42:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:42:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3504 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: 281 File size limit exceededcat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"
17:42:43 <elliott> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3504 This is a big file :P
17:42:50 -!- augur has joined.
17:43:00 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:43:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/paste
17:43:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found
17:43:16 <elliott> `rm $HACKENV/paste/paste.3504
17:43:18 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `$HACKENV/paste/paste.3504': No such file or directory
17:43:22 <HackEgo> 2009-10-19.txt:22:43:23: <oklopol> yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees
17:43:26 <elliott> `run rm $HACKENV/paste/paste.3504
17:43:32 <Gregor> $HACKENV is pwd, y'know :P
17:43:34 <HackEgo> 2009-04-05.txt:23:14:25: <oklopol> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
17:43:45 <HackEgo> 2011-02-13.txt:18:25:19: <elliott> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
17:44:03 <elliott> 2006-11-04.txt:20:01:23: <SevenInchBread> which isn't that terrible... list comprehensions can pretty much do anything lambda could do...
17:44:07 <elliott> CakeProphet: You're stupid in the past
17:44:09 <HackEgo> 2009-02-13.txt:20:38:05: <Slereah2> ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
17:44:20 <HackEgo> 2009-07-06.txt:09:17:31: <EgoBot> fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
17:44:23 <elliott> I hope that produces 0 results
17:44:25 <HackEgo> 2009-06-04.txt:21:29:04: <nooga> FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
17:44:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16592
17:44:38 <elliott> List of horrible people being generated as we speak
17:44:38 <ais523> `log [^f]f{7}u{12}[^u]
17:44:42 <HackEgo> 2011-05-12.txt:20:36:33: <EgoBot> http://reddit.com/r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu/
17:44:50 <elliott> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16592 is amazing
17:44:55 <elliott> `pastelogs [^f]f{7}u{12}[^u]
17:44:59 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9749
17:45:09 -!- derrik has joined.
17:45:15 <ais523> wow, all the correctly spelt ones have been in reddit URLs
17:45:37 <elliott> Hmm, pastelogs should probably cut it off after a certain limit
17:45:44 <elliott> A limit much smaller than HackEgo's :P
17:45:55 <elliott> Say, three hundred and fifty lines?
17:47:23 <elliott> hmm, what's a decent way to say "head, but append this line if you cut anything off"?
17:47:26 <elliott> I guess the only way is to read one more
17:47:34 <ais523> I wonder if you did all the matches for [^f]f+u+[^u] over the entire internet
17:47:43 <ais523> what the distribution of f-count and u-count would be
17:47:52 <ais523> actually, probably you should insist on \bf+u+\b
17:48:57 <HackEgo> 2011-02-10.txt:19:37:22: <elliott> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
17:49:18 <HackEgo> bin/etymology \ bin/log \ bin/pastelogs
17:49:45 <Gregor> I wonder if that still works (or ever worked)
17:49:46 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/DOKJ
17:49:47 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:49:46 URL:http://sprunge.us/DOKJ [600] -> "DOKJ" [1]
17:49:50 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/etymology: line 10: lynx: command not found
17:49:53 <elliott> `run mv DOKJ bin/pastelogs; chmod +x bin/pastelogs
17:50:03 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2673
17:50:14 <HackEgo> 2011-06-21.txt:16:36:32: <elliott_> died of furscript
17:50:18 <HackEgo> 2011-06-21.txt:16:35:35: <Sgeo> "The VeeBeeWiki wiki software needs Esme and Perl to run. The software also needs EsmeCSS: and EsoShell: namespaces."
17:50:19 <ais523> what was the other one?
17:50:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
17:50:36 <elliott> ugh, I just realised something, grepping numbers includes the time
17:50:40 <elliott> you can fix it in the regexp itself
17:50:40 <ais523> I don't remember having heard of that
17:50:45 <elliott> and who knows, maybe someone wants to grep for a certain time?
17:50:58 <HackEgo> 2010-12-15.txt:15:21:27: <elliott> Used the menus to cut/paste that, how shameful.
17:51:04 <HackEgo> 2010-02-05.txt:19:41:28: <oklopol> arbitrarily big, sure, but finite things are usually closed under operations
17:51:10 <Gregor> So `log just gives a random line :P
17:51:12 <ais523> we've basically recreated optbot here
17:51:18 <elliott> ais523: but with more context
17:51:22 <elliott> oh, there's one more thing to add
17:51:25 <HackEgo> 2011-04-16.txt:19:41:00: <Gregor> elliott: That's not much of a ransom demand since it's my repo :P
17:51:29 <Vorpal> I guess that might be useful
17:51:34 <Vorpal> well if it reported all lines
17:52:11 <ais523> oh, if it's Esolang that's doing edit conflicts on blank summaries, it's almost certainly a Graueism
17:52:20 <ais523> he has some entertaining hand-rolled spam solutions
17:52:26 <Vorpal> elliott: lets get every line said this time of day then
17:52:29 <elliott> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/logurl
17:52:34 <elliott> `run echo 'url "/var/irclogs/_esoteric/$(basename "$1" .txt).txt"' >>bin/logurl
17:52:41 <HackEgo> 2007-12-08.txt:01:05:35: <iEhird> the patset function willtoo be unique and wspecisl
17:52:42 <HackEgo> 2010-12-04.txt:19:53:48: <elliott> Gregor: I think "HELP COMPUTER" was an unfortunate choice of topic.
17:52:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//var/irclogs/_esoteric/2010-12-04.txt
17:53:06 <elliott> It should just link to the codu.org link :P
17:53:06 <Vorpal> elliott: from all files or just recent logs?
17:53:13 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastelog: not found
17:53:16 <HackEgo> 2009-12-05.txt:21:18:37: <ehird> uorygl: I don't think there's a Unicode character that would help.
17:53:33 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32542
17:53:51 <Vorpal> elliott: not a very active minute this one
17:54:02 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/QWaF
17:54:03 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:54:03 URL:http://sprunge.us/QWaF [91] -> "QWaF" [1]
17:54:10 <Vorpal> 2005-07-17.txt:23:19:53: <-- also eh
17:54:11 <elliott> `run mv QGaF bin/logurl; chmod +x bin/logurl
17:54:12 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `QGaF': No such file or directory
17:54:19 <Vorpal> `pastelogs 19:53:[0-9][0-9]:
17:54:20 <elliott> `run mv QWaF bin/logurl; chmod +x bin/logurl
17:54:23 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22489
17:54:29 <elliott> You'll cause merge bullshit
17:54:31 <elliott> `logurl 2009-12-05.txt:21:18:37:
17:54:33 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-12-05.txt
17:54:36 -!- derrik has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
17:54:37 <Vorpal> elliott: trying to perfect my perfect regexp
17:54:47 <elliott> Vorpal: Yes, but don't while I'm busy adding new things, or it'll be a pain
17:54:57 <itidus20> PRINT "Hello world" is a function application ((λf.(λs.(f s))) PRINT) "Hello world")
17:54:58 <Vorpal> elliott: your thing didn't paste did it?
17:55:18 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/Sffh
17:55:19 <Vorpal> elliott: no conflict, not an issue
17:55:19 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13 17:55:19 URL:http://sprunge.us/Sffh [101] -> "Sffh" [1]
17:55:27 <elliott> `run mv Sffh bin/logurl; chmod +x bin/logurl
17:55:31 <elliott> And makes my tests use an old version
17:55:35 <elliott> `logurl 2009-12-05.txt:21:18:37:
17:55:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-12-05
17:55:41 <Vorpal> elliott: old version? I didn't change the file ffs
17:55:50 <elliott> Vorpal: You don't understand how HackEgo works, then
17:56:06 <elliott> Gregor: Is there a predictable way to go from date to anchor in codu log page?
17:56:09 <Vorpal> elliott: well then I see no reason to not use it
17:56:15 <elliott> What about these "020024" thins
17:56:29 <elliott> Gregor: BTW you violate standards horribly if there's two things said at the same second
17:57:02 <Gregor> elliott: Only if there are two things said by the same person in the same second.
17:57:02 <Vorpal> a counter starting at 0 would be better
17:57:16 <Gregor> elliott: The <a> is timestampname.
17:57:22 <elliott> <a name="014900"></a><span class="date">01:49:00:</span><span id="014900" class="name"> -!- </span><span class="message">lifthrasiir has joined #esoteric.</span><br />
17:57:22 <monqy> oops i messed that up
17:57:27 <elliott> Gregor: Two /joins in the same second
17:57:40 <monqy> I'll never be cool
17:57:48 <Gregor> elliott: Oh, didn't realize that joins didn't have the name in the <a> >_>
17:57:57 <elliott> Oh well, CBA to do anchor shit right now
17:58:15 <elliott> Does anyone know if egrep does backrefs?
17:58:24 <Vorpal> elliott: pretty sure it doesn't.
17:58:34 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastelogs
17:58:36 <Gregor> JUST HAVE TO USE PERL THEN
17:58:51 <elliott> pcregrep would also be incredibly slow.
17:58:52 <Vorpal> elliott: anyway "pretty sure" is not definitive
17:59:23 <HackEgo> 2010-07-04.txt:16:05:45: <oerjan> <oklopol> you're my new idol, oerjan is out <-- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
17:59:29 <Vorpal> elliott: it might do backref
17:59:33 <elliott> `logurl 2010-07-04.txt:16:05:45:
17:59:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2010-07-04
17:59:38 <Vorpal> elliott: based on what regex(3) indicates
17:59:40 -!- derrik has joined.
17:59:44 <Vorpal> Invalid back reference to a subexpression.
17:59:48 -!- augur has joined.
17:59:55 <Vorpal> pretty sure egrep is same as posix extended regexp
17:59:57 <HackEgo> 2009-09-12.txt:17:51:06: <ehird> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
18:00:00 -!- derrik has left.
18:00:14 <Gregor> elliott: You heard yourself! Now eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
18:00:21 <elliott> `logurl 2009-09-12.txt:17:51:06:
18:00:23 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-09-12
18:00:39 <elliott> 17:50:35: <Azstal> ehird: The WinForms GUI designer uses absolute positioning for most placement of controls
18:00:39 <elliott> 17:50:42: <Azstal> rheeeeeeeeet!
18:00:40 <elliott> 17:50:53: <Deewiant> Azstal: A program which should run quite quickly infinite-loops; it makes a diagonal line of z pointing upward in negative space and starts moving on it with 101-x
18:00:40 <elliott> 17:51:04: <ehird> rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
18:00:43 <elliott> 17:51:06: <ehird> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
18:00:48 <elliott> 17:51:10: <ehird> no multiline support
18:01:22 <HackEgo> 2011-01-12.txt:16:14:13: <oklopol> fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
18:01:32 <HackEgo> 2011-04-08.txt:19:04:11: <Gregor> elliott: FUCKFUCKFUCKNO
18:01:34 <Gregor> I forget whether \s or \S is whitespace ... :P
18:01:45 <HackEgo> 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: <alise> fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
18:01:47 <ais523> \\s is whitespace, \S is not whitespace
18:01:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Just overheard: John Snow pronounces 'trolling' to rhyme with 'lolling'.
18:01:53 <HackEgo> 2008-02-13.txt:22:56:21: <ehird_> Fuckfuckfuckfuck.
18:01:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32136
18:01:59 <HackEgo> 2010-06-27.txt:22:17:32: <Gregor> OH FUCKFUCKFUCK
18:02:01 <elliott> 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: <alise> fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
18:02:01 <elliott> 2011-09-13.txt:18:01:45: <HackEgo> 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: <alise> fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
18:02:07 <elliott> I like how the logs are updated in realtime :P
18:02:08 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: so do I
18:02:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I do that?
18:02:16 <ais523> although long o is definitely a valid pronunciation
18:02:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I say trolling lik ethat
18:02:38 <HackEgo> 2010-08-30.txt:16:15:24: <alise> I can fix that! Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
18:02:44 <elliott> `pastelosg 2010-08-30.txt:16:15:24:
18:02:46 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastelosg: not found
18:02:47 <elliott> `pastelogs 2010-08-30.txt:16:15:24:
18:02:47 <ais523> the same one as in 'cot', but that's the same as the o in 'lolling' in my accent
18:02:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23901
18:02:55 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:02:01: <elliott> 2011-09-13.txt:18:01:45: <HackEgo> 2010-06-01.txt:03:11:20: <alise> fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
18:03:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//lib/limits
18:03:09 <Gregor> Yeah, probably should grep out HackEgo :P
18:03:17 <Gregor> elliott: It sets some limits.
18:03:17 <elliott> The recursiveness is the BEST
18:03:33 <elliott> `log I'm a blah de blah always been the blah which haven't you always said which blah is
18:03:37 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:03:33: <elliott> `log I'm a blah de blah always been the blah which haven't you always said which blah is
18:03:45 <elliott> It's the best "not found" message possible.
18:04:18 <HackEgo> 2006-06-05.txt:02:10:06: <GregorR> He hates you, eh?
18:04:36 <HackEgo> 2003-03-25.txt:19:31:11: -!- Aardappel has joined #esoteric.
18:04:46 <HackEgo> 2008-03-08.txt:17:49:49: <ehird> http://reddit.com
18:04:49 <Gregor> `log I think I'll just use `log as the world's worst `echo from now on.
18:04:53 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:04:49: <Gregor> `log I think I'll just use `log as the world's worst `echo from now on.
18:04:58 <elliott> `logurl 2008-03-08.txt:17:49:49:
18:04:59 <ais523> elliott: why would you link to Reddit's homepage?
18:05:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2008-03-08
18:05:20 <elliott> 17:45:41: <faxathisia> not seen reddits code
18:05:20 <elliott> 17:46:09: <faxathisia> looks pretty trivial if you know dhtml or whatever they do that stuff with
18:05:22 <HackEgo> 2007-08-13.txt:21:21:37: <ehird`> 3d pong
18:05:23 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: apparently
18:05:35 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:04:16: <monqy> `log
18:05:49 <HackEgo> 2008-12-11.txt:00:00:00: <GregorR> I WANT A REPRAP
18:05:56 <elliott> I WANT A REPRAP, he shouted at midnight.
18:06:13 <ais523> `log slightly as his ears,
18:06:16 <HackEgo> 2010-12-13.txt:21:08:15: <elliott> David Slowed, slightly as his ears, entered the room.
18:06:45 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:06:42: <elliott> `log slight as his ears,
18:06:45 <elliott> `log slightly as his ears,
18:06:48 <HackEgo> 2009-06-17.txt:01:09:09: <ehird> David slowed his pace slightly as his ears, washed away in the sea as they were, bobbed along. He was unaware of this event.
18:06:58 <monqy> i love david slowed
18:07:29 <HackEgo> 2010-07-25.txt:22:08:11: <aliseiphone> Bjorn was deathly afraid of beetles. DEATHLY afraid.
18:07:47 <ais523> oh, I forgot all about the Bjorn thing
18:07:53 <HackEgo> 2010-07-30.txt:19:36:21: <alise> Frightened, Bjorn said! Aah! Aah! This is what he said
18:07:59 <ais523> arguably deservedly, but it was fun
18:08:10 <HackEgo> 2010-07-25.txt:22:08:11: <aliseiphone> Bjorn was deathly afraid of beetles. DEATHLY afraid.
18:08:27 <monqy> soon enough you'll get `log Bjorn in your `log Bjorn
18:08:38 <ais523> does this go over glogbot's logs? or clog's? or both?
18:08:46 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:08:55 <elliott> but it's a symlink, so they're updated instantly
18:08:58 <HackEgo> 2011-05-05.txt:00:58:39: <oerjan> (bjorn is not norwegian. or maybe i should check that.)
18:09:04 <elliott> ais523: which is why the "not found" message shows your own line
18:09:07 <elliott> it gets logged before grep gets to it
18:09:19 <HackEgo> 2010-08-03.txt:00:53:43: <alise> Bjorn would never use a computer he couldn't eat.
18:10:40 <HackEgo> 2010-07-23.txt:23:56:32: <alise> Often Bjorn would stop and gaze up at the immense trees; or down at the bugs on the floor. Sometimes he squished the bugs while looking at the trees, or the trees while looking at the bugs. He felt considerably more sorrow for the trees. Eventually, a bird flew overhead and the strain of trying
18:11:14 <monqy> I do not understand. I thought this might help, but it did not.
18:11:36 <HackEgo> 2010-07-24.txt:03:53:35: <alise> "Well," said Bjorn, "I'd like to buy the sun back."
18:12:19 <monqy> why are you the only bjorn. that is you, right?
18:12:27 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:12:24: <monqy> `log Bjorn
18:12:28 <elliott> because im, auhtor, of bjorn,
18:12:38 <HackEgo> 2010-07-26.txt:02:36:09: <alise> to bjorn's reply, the young man devised
18:12:47 <HackEgo> 2010-07-24.txt:03:52:04: <alise> As Bjorn woke the next morning, he was, much to his chagrin, reminded of his exploits-to-be by his least favourite region of the brain, which was whatever part stored memories; Bjorn wasn't really sure how the brain operated, apart from that he wished it wouldn't do so in such an efficient and
18:12:50 <ais523> alise was better at bjorning than anyone else
18:13:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32040
18:13:46 <elliott> Gregor: send correct headers with paste files plz
18:13:47 <monqy> 2007-07-02.txt:09:30:40: <toBogE> cout << "C++ is a programming language created by Bjorn Stroustroup which extends C. See C."
18:14:03 <elliott> 2010-07-22.txt:23:14:05: <aliseiphone> He walked towards the Boothy Booth, the premiere showcase for all fans of boothes, and in a fit of naïvety attempted to descend into the miniature copy of the Boothy Booth contained inside it. Alas, he tripped over it and flattened its containing tent just as a gigantic Bjorn flattened Boothy Booth.
18:14:03 <elliott> this would be a good dream to have
18:15:20 <ais523> Stroustroup's first name isn't Bjorn
18:15:27 <monqy> ais523: that's part of why it's funny
18:15:39 <monqy> maybe I'm just really tired and everything is funny
18:16:05 <monqy> in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep
18:16:18 <ais523> why is there no way to specify encoding as utf-8-or-maybe-latin-1?
18:16:20 <elliott> `addquote <monqy> in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep
18:16:22 <HackEgo> 658) <monqy> in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep
18:16:26 <ais523> given that's the encoding that most of the world is in nowadays
18:16:34 <HackEgo> 2011-08-13.txt:01:41:11: <Lymee> `quotes open sores
18:16:59 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:16:56: <ais523> `log outercal
18:17:17 <elliott> I like how you can't be sure there's no results
18:17:20 <elliott> because it can pick that one randomly anyway
18:17:29 <elliott> "By the same logic, the color white was chosen because it represents a hex number with the largest value in a 24-bit red green blue (RGB) color space: 0xFFFFFF, so programmers worldwide wear white in celebration.[citation needed]"
18:19:05 <HackEgo> 2011-04-18.txt:04:52:56: <elliott> oerjan: i invite you to take a look at http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ehird&action=edit and imagine how much I yearned for the ability to use div and span during its creation
18:19:24 <HackEgo> 2009-03-03.txt:18:37:54: * ais523 looks at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Esme for old time's sake
18:19:44 * elliott listens to Talk Esme Baby again... an art
18:21:43 <monqy> hwo could you not know
18:22:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It was the final one.
18:22:17 <elliott> Everything about its production was pure accidental perfection.
18:22:31 <elliott> I'll have to upload it, yeah.
18:22:34 <elliott> You can't really go through life without hearing this.
18:23:29 <ais523> it's a dramatic reading of Talk:Esme?
18:24:02 <elliott> ais523: Well, that was the _idea_.
18:24:20 -!- boily has joined.
18:24:27 <elliott> I decided to throw caution to the wind and do it to one of GarageBand's awful precreated backing track things, where you basically select one instrument and play it over the aforementioned terrible backing track.
18:24:35 <elliott> Specifically, the funk one.
18:24:45 <elliott> But the funk... was too much.
18:25:01 <elliott> So I ended up not getting to the actual text until there was about thirty seconds to go, so it became a trainwreck.
18:25:05 <elliott> Then I realised that it thought I was recording a guitar.
18:25:11 <elliott> And applied bad effects appropriately.
18:25:15 <elliott> So you can't hear a damn thing.
18:25:25 <elliott> It's about as much of a disaster as Esme is.
18:25:26 <ais523> to be fair, this is Esme we're talking about
18:26:23 <Gregor> Worse yet, why does it exist?
18:26:29 <monqy> I remember being reminded of songsmith
18:26:31 <Gregor> And why hasn't its creator been raped to death?
18:26:32 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, it produced ART that day.
18:26:54 <monqy> songsmith commercial is an art. I imagine songsmith has made other art as well.
18:27:11 <monqy> or is it not considered a commercial
18:27:21 <elliott> Really GarageBand is not that bad in typical use... it's just a really ridiculously stripped-down Logic.
18:27:29 <elliott> But that Magic GarageBand thing is amazing :P
18:28:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'm just glad Kurt Gödel agreed to collaborate.
18:29:13 <monqy> I remember Sgeo's karaoke.
18:29:39 <HackEgo> 2011-06-21.txt:04:06:40: <Sgeo> I think 1/100 is higher than surviving antimatter in a degenerate way
18:29:54 <HackEgo> 2011-08-10.txt:21:33:40: <itidus20> they're FAST
18:30:16 <HackEgo> 2011-07-24.txt:07:22:30: <zzo38> I hope someone can understand my register optimization algorithm problem that I have had. And if there is other channel that they know this kinds of things better.
18:30:36 <HackEgo> 2009-02-21.txt:00:51:32: <ehird> verily
18:30:47 <HackEgo> 2010-06-24.txt:23:01:53: <ais523> `define betwixt
18:31:10 <HackEgo> 2010-06-24.txt:23:01:53: <ais523> `define betwixt
18:31:18 <HackEgo> 2010-01-10.txt:18:04:04: <ehird> This channel is now: The official poop channel 2010
18:31:21 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:31:10: <HackEgo> 2010-06-24.txt:23:01:53: <ais523> `define betwixt
18:31:32 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2946
18:33:35 <HackEgo> 2010-08-15.txt:05:22:03: <ais523> coppro: BlogNomic inspired you?
18:33:43 -!- derrik has joined.
18:33:46 <HackEgo> 2007-11-26.txt:02:45:17: <bsmntbombdood> life is a nomic!
18:33:48 <elliott> ais523: this is so much fun what have you done
18:33:51 <Vorpal> elliott: does it pick first match or random one?
18:34:00 <HackEgo> 2011-03-06.txt:23:04:18: <elliott> copumpkin: "Basically this asshat pulled that number out of his butt. I used to work in at a library and books easily last way more than 26 borrowings (e.g., bestellers get borrowed over 20 times in just their first year). A library couldn't economically survive if books didn't last more than
18:34:47 -!- Taneb has joined.
18:34:58 <HackEgo> 2010-12-18.txt:20:50:50: <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I DETEST YOU AND I AM ALREADY ON A TRAIN TO HEXHAM TO BEAT YOU TO DEATH WITH A LAMP POST.
18:35:10 -!- derrik has left.
18:35:20 <HackEgo> 2009-02-23.txt:19:15:07: <ehird> hi olsner
18:35:30 <HackEgo> 2008-12-22.txt:15:50:34: <ehird> I like how it takes 8 books to get to recursion
18:35:34 <HackEgo> 2011-08-10.txt:16:05:19: <itidus20> but it doesn't have to be that way
18:35:35 <HackEgo> 2011-09-12.txt:19:48:25: <oklopol> i could even fly to hexham but i guess that'd defeat the purpose
18:35:54 <HackEgo> 2011-07-16.txt:22:00:56: <oklofok> well i kind of live in hexham too
18:36:13 <HackEgo> 2009-03-10.txt:14:18:38: <fizzie> If you want to see an inspirational piece of Befunge, our local irc-bot, fungot, is written in it: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt
18:36:22 <HackEgo> 2011-02-25.txt:09:30:57: <fungot> (:(()~(^)~(:)~(:)~(^)~()~^S^(^)~^^^)(^())~(^(~))~^^()~^^S)# ...out of stack!
18:36:27 <Taneb> Are oklofok and oklopol the same person?
18:37:07 <HackEgo> 2010-03-04.txt:05:30:20: <augur> the only case where the twin paradox can "vanish" is in a case where it cant even happen!
18:37:10 <elliott> `logurl 2009-03-10.txt:14:18:38:
18:37:12 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2009-03-10
18:37:13 <elliott> `logurl 2011-07-16.txt:22:00:56:
18:37:15 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-07-16
18:37:49 <HackEgo> 2011-05-13.txt:20:26:04: <elliott> No it isn't.
18:37:56 <ais523> heh, my reaction to that `log fungot was "who put Underload in fungot's markoviser?"
18:38:14 <HackEgo> 2011-02-09.txt:21:20:35: -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:38:34 <HackEgo> 2010-10-07.txt:20:32:34: <ais523> NOP
18:38:40 <HackEgo> 2009-05-14.txt:00:04:24: <ehird> A kindle of kittens.
18:38:49 <HackEgo> 2010-11-08.txt:19:46:10: <fizzie> "Domestic cats are similar in size to the other members of the genus Felis, typically weighing between 4 kilograms (8 lb 13 oz) and 5 kilograms (11 lb 0 oz). -- The smallest adult cat ever officially recorded weighed around 1.36 kilograms (3 lb)." -- "[Rabbits'] size can range anywhere from 20 cm
18:38:57 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:38:53: <ais523> `log zruty
18:39:23 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: that was from "is cat or rabbit bigger"
18:39:26 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:39:23: <Phantom_Hoover> `log is now unnecessary; remove it.
18:39:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: after what, fizzie's cat/rabbit line?
18:39:43 <elliott> because the recursion happens all the time :P
18:39:47 <elliott> `logurl 2010-11-08.txt:19:46:10:
18:39:48 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2010-11-08
18:39:55 <elliott> so many logs to read, so little time
18:40:00 <HackEgo> 2010-11-08.txt:19:44:11: <ais523> Gregor: cats are larger than rabbits?
18:40:10 <ais523> oh dear, I started it?
18:40:15 <HackEgo> 2004-10-22.txt:15:51:07: -!- cmeme has quit (Broken pipe).
18:40:22 <HackEgo> 2008-01-02.txt:19:36:17: * Sgeo is working on PSOX
18:40:28 <HackEgo> 2010-06-21.txt:21:50:31: <AnMaster> coppro, heh I realised why ais is holding back feather. So he can be the world's leading expert on it
18:40:45 <ais523> I was wondering whether I'd get description of feather the language or reference to feather the injoke
18:40:57 <HackEgo> 2008-06-30.txt:23:32:44: <ais523> tusho: heh, you could do that in Feather
18:41:14 <HackEgo> 2011-09-06.txt:21:47:16: <monqy> I mentioned feather in reaction tot he "retroactive self-modification" feature a few days ago and taneb said his approach to it was actually pretty simple?? I forget/dunno how it will work though
18:41:31 -!- fungot has joined.
18:41:32 <elliott> 19:43:12: <ais523> trying to remember elephant > camel > horse > dog > cat > rabbit is the hardest part of the game
18:41:32 <elliott> 19:43:41: <Gregor> ais523: Really? "Bigger-than" over mammals is too hard for you?
18:41:33 <elliott> 19:44:11: <ais523> Gregor: cats are larger than rabbits?
18:41:40 <Taneb> Simple but memory-usey-up-a-lot-of
18:41:46 <fungot> elliott: what do you mean by " taxonomic"? :) i'm learning scheme and hopefully soon re-establishing some cs cred so that i hypothesize that the oss world will have a server-side for sharing feather images, though
18:42:28 <ais523> `log international hub for
18:42:32 <HackEgo> 2009-05-07.txt:21:57:58: <GregorR> 05.10.10:19:09:35 --- topic: set to '#esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric'
18:42:55 <elliott> 19:54:29: <elliott> I said |{x : x in rabbits, size(x) > (sum x in cats : size(x)) / |cats|}| > |{x : x in cats, size(x) > (sum x in dogs : size(x)) / |dogs|}|.
18:42:59 <HackEgo> 2009-12-05.txt:14:35:51: <ehird> wat, perl's foreach doesn't let you get the indices too?
18:42:59 <ais523> we haven't had the design and deployment topic for ages
18:43:20 <HackEgo> 2011-08-13.txt:01:27:13: <monqy> hlep
18:43:22 <ais523> it alternates keys and values if you foreach a hash
18:43:29 <ais523> normally, you foreach the keys or values of the hash specifically
18:43:40 <elliott> ais523: thanks, my script was blocked on that
18:43:48 * elliott dusts off the three-year-old emacs process
18:44:01 <ais523> hey, I've answered really old questions before now
18:44:12 <ais523> I've posted in multiple-year-old threads on a.l.i before, IIRC
18:44:13 <elliott> 20:00:08: <fizzie> Also if I write ungrammatically "volume of cat", it goes "Input interpretation: Caterpillar | volume" and the result is "2.981 million shares".
18:44:17 <ais523> `log alt.lang.intercal
18:44:20 <HackEgo> 2006-07-26.txt:21:39:04: <Razor-X> alt.lang.intercal.
18:44:27 <ais523> `log alt.lang.intercal
18:44:31 <HackEgo> 2009-11-17.txt:17:15:17: <AnMaster> ais523, your recent post on alt.lang.intercal looks messed up to me
18:44:40 <ais523> `log alt.lang.intercal
18:44:43 <HackEgo> 2008-02-27.txt:20:55:19: <ais523> and don't you mean alt.lang.intercal
18:44:51 <ais523> `log alt.lang.intercal
18:44:54 <HackEgo> 2008-04-01.txt:18:48:29: <ehird> ais523: ... http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal/browse_thread/thread/5a0696843eeeb5b6/65b0d4a066a4c544#65b0d4a066a4c544
18:45:01 <HackEgo> 2011-07-14.txt:09:23:27: <Taneb> Okay, now there's three esolangs called Numberwang
18:45:02 <elliott> `log alt[^.]lang[^.]intercal
18:45:12 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:45:19 <elliott> Gregor: How much CPU is HackEgo using :P
18:45:31 <HackEgo> 2010-06-26.txt:00:26:26: <alise> cpressey: Just use perl -n.
18:45:38 <HackEgo> 2007-07-09.txt:03:19:16: <suifur> Sukoshi: though done properly, I think the bytecode compiler could work well
18:45:43 <calamari> can it find the earliest mention rather than a random mention?
18:45:43 <HackEgo> 2007-04-01.txt:16:17:35: <Pikhq> How's about posting it in alt.lang.intercal?
18:46:03 <HackEgo> 2009-04-28.txt:17:44:24: <Deewiant> In hyperbolic they're less than 180
18:46:05 <elliott> calamari: with pastequotes
18:46:10 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6794
18:46:13 <ais523> calamari: it wouldn't be a hard modification to the script to do that
18:46:21 <ais523> and I think pastequotes goes in chronological order as it is
18:46:27 <elliott> hmm, does that paste load for anyone?
18:46:34 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17697
18:46:52 <Gregor> elliott: At present, none.
18:46:59 <elliott> Gregor: What did you do :P
18:47:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found
18:47:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20848
18:47:23 <itidus20> why isn't the pastequotes implemented?
18:47:30 <monqy> pastequotes has a nicer ring to it
18:47:36 <elliott> but nobody's addquoted rare
18:47:38 <Taneb> It is something else
18:47:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20365
18:48:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12613
18:48:45 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29876
18:49:30 <Taneb> I'm interested in the context for quote 645
18:49:32 <itidus20> i didnt think that pastelog out very well
18:49:39 <HackEgo> 645) <ais523> oh no, I think we've managed to mix three metaphors in a way that actually makes sense
18:50:08 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:50:16 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22066
18:50:40 <ais523> Taneb: elliott used "ratify" meaning "adopt a standard", I deliberately misinterpreted it in the Agoran meaning of "retroactively change", and then obviously, someone mentioned Feather
18:50:49 <itidus20> thanks elliott, thats a bit closer
18:51:03 <Taneb> That's dissapointing
18:51:04 <elliott> itidus20: it's exactly close :P assuming you wanted "ork" as a word
18:51:57 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18799
18:52:11 <calamari> are the old mailing list archives still available?
18:54:08 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_Portal#Mailing_lists
18:54:48 <elliott> hehehe my message is in http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/current
18:55:16 <Taneb> How does Feather avert stable time loops
18:55:32 <Taneb> I was asking ais523
18:55:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:55:39 <Taneb> I just didn't say his name
18:55:52 <ais523> Taneb: it doesn't, you get an infinite loop if you try
18:56:05 <Taneb> More use for my Feather derivative
18:56:07 <ais523> the standard library is expected to contain a bunch of functions designed specifically to avoid stable time loops
18:56:25 <Taneb> Maybe McGraw's a library
18:56:36 <elliott> Taneb: I was pinging ais523 for you
18:57:18 <Taneb> elliott: With a Feather IRC server, that doesn't have to be true
18:57:30 <elliott> 2003-09-08.txt:13:17:45: <Doppelganger> The Resin Feathered is by for the largesse country of the world in are by spinning 11 tone zoans in but Erebia and As. Rise swoors brother what they flummoxed country (starting in to north and in contrescene order: Near, Finlandia, Extend, Latvia, Bowler's, Letdown (via Killmaimthem Obligation, Plenty (idem), Ukraine, Grace, Acorpolous, Kissykissy, Come, Monosyllables and Nerthe Krow.
18:57:30 <elliott> 2003-09-08.txt:13:27:41: <Doppelganger> Be the lied 1980s, Spit leader Michael Gravys invalid reverend such as gilligan's and proceding, but though messrs were unbluffingly the propennies the collapsed of to Spat Unium after a flat mielodorous cup i'm 1991. Two Rossum Soft Federals' Repopulate declared its independent on Acquiester 24 of that your as to Reign Feathered. Reach, as the Soft Unionist's primewer successor stood, his snack sazd the mo
18:57:49 <elliott> 2008-05-09.txt:13:53:37: <ais523> I'm thinking of calling it Feather, because it's so lightweight compared to most Smalltalks
18:57:53 <elliott> ais523: the day of reckoning
18:58:04 <Taneb> It's a smallsmalltalk
18:58:07 <elliott> every day since has been a dream
18:58:13 <elliott> the AI that secretly run things is simulating this universe
18:58:17 <elliott> to find out if ais523's creation of feather
18:58:21 <elliott> will lead to an apocalypse
18:58:34 <elliott> if it does, the idea will be erased from his mind
18:58:53 <ais523> being lightweight isn't just a good idea, but turns out to be inherently required for Feather to work properly
18:59:07 <elliott> ais523: it causes the apocalypse by retroactively creating the AI that runs everything
18:59:17 <elliott> which then destroys the universe by ending the simulation that it turns out to have been retroactively running
18:59:30 <elliott> thus constituting an apocalypse
18:59:34 <elliott> so the idea is then removed from your brain
18:59:36 <Taneb> Will retoractivity be to the start of the program or a point defined within the program?
18:59:47 <ais523> elliott: I think it's probably even possible to retroactively modify the infinite universe such that it becomes finite
18:59:52 <elliott> Taneb: start of time, or so I gather
18:59:53 <ais523> as in, so that it had a start
19:00:04 -!- augur has joined.
19:00:06 <ais523> Taneb: you retroactively change objects at the moment they were created
19:00:19 <ais523> this includes the interpreter that interprets your program, and the interpreter that interprets /that/, etc
19:00:23 <elliott> does anyone remember when rodgerthegreat got really angry demanding that feather couldn't possibly work?
19:00:26 <ais523> also, the program itself that's fed to the interp
19:01:49 <HackEgo> 2008-01-23.txt:05:38:27: <RodgerTheGreat> or, as I like to say, memetic viruses
19:01:49 <monqy> i remember logreading it
19:03:44 <Taneb> I don't remember saying 598
19:03:51 <Taneb> Well, I do, but I wish I didn't
19:03:52 <HackEgo> 598) <Taneb> I think it's fizzie against everyone atm <Taneb> AND EVERYONE IS WINNING <Taneb> EXCEPT FIZZIE
19:07:32 * Sgeo celebrates Programmers' Day
19:07:47 <HackEgo> 2011-07-31.txt:06:24:55: <Sgeo> Usually
19:07:59 <Sgeo> ..........that's it, I'm officially boring.
19:08:01 <ais523> elliott: oh, Oracle v. Google is getting amusing
19:08:19 <ais523> Oracle decided that they thought that the Google person in charge of Android wasn't senior enough to be involved in mediation
19:08:26 <ais523> even though he'd been involved in all the settlements so far
19:08:40 <ais523> and the judge's reaction was to require the CEOs of both companies to be there
19:08:57 <ais523> I'm not sure if they'll try to wriggle out of it or attend
19:09:06 <elliott> court is literally just two parties whinging and a judge trying to upset them both, right?
19:09:10 <elliott> i see no evidence against this
19:09:14 <ais523> somehow, I doubt that mediation's going to go too well if it is Larry v. Larry
19:09:16 <ais523> elliott: quite possibly
19:09:23 <Sgeo> Even in context, it was boring
19:09:24 <ais523> this judge seems to me to have decided that both sides are playing dirty
19:09:36 <elliott> I would pay to attend Larry v. Larry
19:10:11 <Sgeo> Who's the Larry at Oracle?
19:10:13 <elliott> incidentally, /me thinks he might have designed the Platonically Perfect Lisp Macro Solution
19:10:30 <Taneb> I know someone called Ellison
19:11:20 <ais523> I online-know someone called Elliott
19:13:31 <elliott> I _think_ I have the semantics to make this work.
19:13:56 <elliott> (note that although they look similar to traditional defmacro quasiquoting, the "tmp" in the second let1 is _not_ exposed to body)
19:14:52 <ais523> elliott: oh dear, one of my friends in another channel, when faced with doing "does the xth character of the yth line of a file contain a particular character" in Python, decided that the easiest method was to call out to vim
19:14:54 <elliott> ais523: be vaguely interested, since it's call-by-name and you dislike traditional lisp macro systems
19:14:55 <monqy> zepto? it doesn't have kernels $s at least
19:15:00 <monqy> so I figure it's not kernel
19:15:01 <ais523> I'm trying to persuade him that some other method is going to be better
19:15:02 <elliott> stop being their friend :'(
19:15:11 <monqy> and I've never heard of anything else with vau
19:15:14 <ais523> elliott: let me look at it, then
19:15:16 <elliott> monqy: it's... zepto I guess, I just stole the vau name
19:15:24 <elliott> it's merely an idea at this point
19:15:31 <elliott> but I think it's perfectly hygienic fexprs
19:15:32 <monqy> it looks a lot different from nights agos ante
19:16:33 <elliott> I think it's syntax-case's basic system, ported over to fexprs
19:17:53 <monqy> comparing the first and the second is cond not having #, a mistake or is there reason for eval not to translate to that there
19:18:11 <Sgeo> Picolisp ... why do picolisp macros exist?
19:18:37 <elliott> http://trydyingtolive.com/ worst website ever
19:19:12 <elliott> ais523: you will enjoy that website
19:19:19 * elliott specialises in true statements
19:19:26 <Sgeo> I can't figure out how to edit text on that site
19:20:05 <elliott> ais523: isn't it beautiful :')
19:20:36 <Sgeo> Why does the Resume read like a real thing
19:20:45 <elliott> Sgeo: because it's a real person's site
19:21:00 <elliott> they actually think this is the best way to make their website
19:21:12 * Sgeo refuses to believe that
19:21:15 <Sgeo> It's just a fun toy
19:21:16 <elliott> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/keepq/since_designers_use_fancy_looking_websites_to/
19:21:19 <elliott> Since designers use fancy looking websites to show off their skills, I wondered what a developer's website would look like. This is my result. (trydyingtolive.com)
19:21:19 <elliott> submitted 1 hour ago by trydyingtolive
19:21:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:23:06 <monqy> bachelor of science in youth and family ministry? is that a thing?
19:24:11 <elliott> i bet Sgeo is trying to correct all the vandalism
19:24:17 <monqy> he's just making it worse
19:24:55 <Sgeo> I don't think I'm doing this
19:25:02 <monqy> well I'm not doing it!
19:25:55 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:26:20 <Sgeo> Are you fiddling with the javascript for the kidnap?
19:26:57 <Sgeo> Um, it snapped back
19:28:19 <calamari> I wonder if any attacks can be made to break out of the css
19:28:26 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:28:28 <elliott> trydyingtolive is the worst possible name for anything ever
19:28:39 <Sgeo> Sounds Christian
19:28:44 <monqy> 503 Service Unavailable
19:28:45 <monqy> No server is available to handle this request.
19:28:45 * elliott sets background colour to #f00;}
19:28:46 <Sgeo> Some Christian stuff sounds creepy to me
19:29:44 <Sgeo> change everything to #666666 ?
19:30:42 <Sgeo> Why does it just say #000
19:31:00 <Sgeo> But, why isn't there 6 digits
19:31:23 <Taneb> #000 isn't an IRC channel
19:31:24 <elliott> eight bit would be two hex digits
19:31:31 <elliott> * adams.freenode.net sets mode +n #000
19:31:33 <elliott> * adams.freenode.net sets mode +s #000
19:31:37 <elliott> * [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
19:31:40 <elliott> * services. removes channel operator status from elliott
19:31:55 <ais523> hmm, according to discussion in Slashdot, Windows 8 has no Start menu, even if you put it into old-fashioned desktop mode
19:32:07 <ais523> now, that's going to confuse people who can't adapt to UI change
19:32:12 <Taneb> Neither do the majority of modern OSs
19:32:20 <Sgeo> Hmm, I wonder if this is a mean color
19:32:34 <ais523> well, Gnome 2, KDE 3 and KDE 4 all have pretty close equivalents
19:32:38 * Sgeo changes to a lighter shade of gray
19:32:41 <ais523> I'm not sure about OS X
19:33:04 <elliott> os x ships with the applications folder on the dock by default
19:33:09 <elliott> which pops up a list of every application, so...
19:33:12 <elliott> didn't before leopard though
19:33:30 <Taneb> But are any of them labelled "start"?
19:33:33 <elliott> before leopard, I guess you could only use spotlight
19:33:38 <elliott> guess you just opened Finder
19:33:43 <Taneb> Vista doesn't have a start button
19:33:43 <ais523> Taneb: the /name/ is pretty irrelevant
19:33:47 <Taneb> It has a flag button
19:33:54 <elliott> it has start if you put it into Classic
19:34:06 <Taneb> By default, Vista doesn't have a start button
19:34:18 <Sgeo> It has a button with similar functionality
19:34:26 <Taneb> THAT IS NOT THE SAME
19:34:28 <ais523> I'm trying to have a serious discussion about inferior-OSes-that-exist here
19:34:41 <ais523> (as opposed to @ which is a superior-OS-that-doesn't-exist)
19:34:46 <Taneb> I'm trying to explain what a start button is
19:34:53 <Taneb> That is, a button labelled "Start"
19:35:03 <elliott> Taneb: I reject that definition, I suspect most people do too
19:35:07 * Sgeo paints a button labelled Start on Taneb
19:36:22 * oerjan pushes Taneb's Start button
19:36:23 * Sgeo may be addicted to UI change
19:36:47 <elliott> ais523: i'm enjoying this five-minute thing where you accidentally explain the entire uk political system to vorpal
19:36:54 <Taneb> I like what's in that new ubuntu thing that I forget the name of
19:36:57 <Sgeo> See a new UI, want it
19:36:59 <oerjan> elliott: accidentally?
19:37:07 <Taneb> And I'm probably the only one who does
19:37:09 <elliott> 01:10:17: <AnMaster> ais523, is that even allowed by the constitution?
19:37:10 <elliott> 01:16:27: <AnMaster> ais523, how did he managed to become elected then
19:37:10 <calamari> I think tht webpage automatically reverts changes after a while
19:37:14 <elliott> 01:17:05: <ais523> he was appointed to the house of Lords
19:37:14 <elliott> 01:17:21: <AnMaster> ais523, what does that mean. I forgot how UK politics work
19:37:40 <ais523> elliott: I have to explain the UK itself to a lot of people
19:37:45 <ais523> a lot of IRCers seem to think UK = England
19:37:53 <ais523> which offends me just as much as it offends most non-English Brits
19:37:53 <elliott> 01:18:18: <ais523> there was a huge scandal recently where Lords memberships were allegedly paid for
19:37:54 <elliott> 01:18:30: <AnMaster> that's no democracy...
19:38:04 <Taneb> But us know that UK ACTUALLY = Southern Spain
19:38:13 * Sgeo is vaguely aware that there's a difference. England is a strict subset of UK?
19:38:19 <elliott> 01:19:14: <AnMaster> ais523, I mean the house of lords in general is undemocratic
19:38:19 <elliott> 01:19:39: <AnMaster> having such a thing should disqualify UK as being counted as a democracy
19:38:26 <oerjan> ais523: yeah wouldn't want to get confused with those filthy scots
19:38:31 <elliott> Sgeo: what do you think scotland is?
19:38:43 <Sgeo> elliott, a country of some sort?
19:38:57 <elliott> Sgeo: entirely separate from england?
19:39:05 <ais523> Taneb: also technically wrong
19:39:08 <elliott> 01:25:40: <ais523> hmm... ehird would probably be highly amused to know that Lord Mandelson was the Baron of Hartlepool
19:39:09 <elliott> 01:25:45: <ais523> I mean, Hartlepool!
19:39:15 <elliott> ais523: Scotland is a country, just not a state
19:39:25 <Sgeo> elliott, no idea. I'd have thought so. Then again, I would not be able to point out Scotland on a map
19:39:27 <Taneb> We're like Canada, but inside out
19:39:29 <ais523> the word "country" isn't well-defined enough for it to really work
19:39:34 <elliott> Sgeo: you're kidding me, right?
19:39:34 <ais523> it's a dependency of the UK, technically speaking
19:39:37 <ais523> it may be other things too
19:39:44 <elliott> I can accept ignorance on what the UK exactly constitutes
19:39:50 <elliott> but not knowing where Scotland is, even vaguely?
19:39:57 <elliott> thinking it's completely unrelated to England?
19:40:06 <Sgeo> Based on the context, I guess that it's near or in the UK
19:40:10 <ais523> elliott: I doubt I'd get all the dependencies of the UK from memory, or that you would
19:40:27 <Taneb> It's one of the Kingdoms that United ot form the United Kingdom
19:40:34 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover needs to get really offended now, this is unbelievable
19:40:44 <elliott> are all US citizens this insanely ignorant??? like
19:40:50 <elliott> USers are dum at geography lol thing
19:41:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: i think he thought scotland was unrelated to england...
19:41:27 <elliott> Sgeo: what do you think wales is
19:41:31 <elliott> Sgeo: what do you think ireland is
19:41:38 <Taneb> Ooh, that's a good one
19:41:41 <Gregor> I would like to say, on behalf of all Americans, that Scotland is on Great Britain, and also Sweden and Switzerland are the same country.
19:41:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Thus, he must have thought Scotland was just part of England.
19:41:54 <elliott> Like, Scotland is layer two.
19:41:57 <Sgeo> Isn't Ireland some... island thing, or otherwise related to islands.
19:41:58 <elliott> Our sky is just Scotland's underside.
19:42:18 <Sgeo> elliott, related to this whole UK thing somehow.
19:42:27 <elliott> Sgeo: That's cheating based on context
19:42:29 <elliott> What did you think before now
19:42:34 <Sgeo> Ireland is north of England, isn't it?
19:42:47 <Gregor> elliott: Would you rather I'd said "on the island of Great Britain"? No preposition works particularly well there.
19:43:04 <elliott> What did you think it was before now
19:43:11 <Taneb> Great Britian isn't actually an island
19:43:12 <oerjan> Gregor: austria and australia too
19:43:17 <Sgeo> A country perhaps vaguely in the area
19:43:19 <Taneb> The island is Britain
19:43:24 <elliott> im going to draw Sgeo's idea of uk
19:43:50 <Gregor> Taneb: Faaaaaaairly sure that the island of Britain is the island of Great Britain, and furthermore one of the British isles.
19:44:07 <Taneb> Great Britain is a geopolitical region
19:44:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, I can see Kintyre on a good day in Nowhere, Ireland.
19:44:38 <Sgeo> Wait, is the island that England is on divided such that part of it isn't England?
19:45:03 <Taneb> And some of England is on other islands
19:45:06 <Taneb> For instance, Wight
19:45:09 <ais523> Gregor: you're correct there
19:45:11 <Phantom_Hoover> "Some people living in Northern Ireland (which is part of the UK) would even like Northern Ireland itself classified as part of the ROI instead of the UK. This is a contentious point."
19:45:18 <Gregor> ais523: Yeah, just concluded that :P
19:45:19 <ais523> Taneb: the Isle of Wight is not part of England
19:45:22 <ais523> it's a dependency of its own
19:45:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Contentious point links to the WP article on the Troubles.
19:45:33 <Taneb> That's the Isle of Man, ais523
19:45:38 <ais523> Taneb: I think they both aren't
19:45:42 <ais523> not sure about the Isle of Wight
19:45:47 <Taneb> The Isle of Wight is definitely part of England
19:45:47 <ais523> I'm definitely sure about the Isle of Man
19:45:50 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo: Taneb: Sgeo's United Kingdom: http://ompldr.org/vYWM2NA
19:46:04 <ais523> what about the Channel Islands? part of the UK, but are they part of England?
19:46:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I love WP's jokes-via-links
19:46:25 <Taneb> They're like the Island of Man
19:46:36 <oerjan> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scotireland
19:46:36 <elliott> Sgeo: So did you seriously think Scotland was just some place.
19:46:38 <Taneb> There's Guernsey, Jersey, Alderney, and Sark
19:46:51 <Gregor> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Sgeo: Taneb: Sgeo's United Kingdom: http://ompldr.org/vYWM2NA // the best UK
19:46:54 <Sgeo> Why wouldn't it be just some place? Aren't all places just some place?
19:46:57 <Taneb> I think Alderney was the last place to abandon the feudal system
19:47:03 <elliott> Sgeo: Yes, but you didn't think it was related to England in any way.
19:47:16 <elliott> Sgeo: I mean, did you just think it was some random European country??
19:47:30 <Sgeo> I think I was envisioning Scotland to the east of England
19:47:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: They totally should have.
19:47:43 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Imagine them just... hating a country on the other side of the globe to them.
19:47:46 <Taneb> Sgeo: Where do you think Herzogovinia is?
19:47:48 <Gregor> I'm pretty sure that Scotland is just another name for Sweden and Switzerland.
19:47:49 <elliott> Wait, that's what America does.
19:48:07 <Gregor> Just that Switzerland is the Swiss name, Sweden is the Swedish name, and Scotland is the Scotch name.
19:48:07 <Sgeo> Taneb, can't tell if you just made that up
19:48:35 <elliott> Gregor: Confoederatio Helvetica!
19:48:44 <Gregor> They must speak like twenty languages in Swedotzerland, though all begin with an 'S' and most begin with 'sw'.
19:48:47 <elliott> Switzerland: named by font nerds.
19:49:04 <Taneb> I can never spell it
19:49:10 <Taneb> I can barely spell Britain
19:49:14 <ais523> Sgeo: Scotland's to the north of England
19:49:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, obviously you weren't there for every Eurovison contest ever.
19:49:33 <Taneb> 2006 was a good year for Eurovision
19:49:42 <Taneb> Lithuania and Finland especially
19:49:42 <elliott> Eurovision is like, the most European thing ever.
19:49:43 * Sgeo still holds the Mornington Crescent hypothesis
19:49:58 <elliott> Name something more European than Eurovision.
19:49:59 <ais523> Mornington Crescent is in London
19:50:02 <Gregor> Sgeo: Also, where's Brittany in relation to Britain? </troll>
19:50:29 <Sgeo> The European Union?
19:50:43 <Taneb> That doesn't even have Norway
19:50:47 <elliott> Sgeo: but seriously, go look at a globe, please.
19:50:58 <elliott> Look at the UK, it's the thing that looks like a pound sign.
19:51:06 <elliott> This is where the pound sign comes from.
19:51:22 <Taneb> I always thought the British Isles looked like Dangermouse and Penfold
19:51:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Agree that the British Isles are the prettiest geographical formation???
19:51:37 <Gregor> Taneb: I'M WATCHING DANGER MOUSE RIGHT NOW!
19:51:38 <elliott> All the other islands are like
19:52:09 <ais523> Scotland has a bunch of offshore islands, ranging from interesting to tiny and worthless
19:52:09 <elliott> But seriously, apart from the Nordic countries and the British Isles, all the other land is SO BORING shape-wise.
19:52:10 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, you're just discussing the beauty of Scotland.
19:52:22 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Well OK but look the whole thing looks like an icon.
19:52:25 <Taneb> Newfoundland's pretty interesting
19:52:29 <elliott> No other island group looks like an icon.
19:52:30 <Taneb> One side of it, anyway
19:52:42 <ais523> they were used for the first reality TV show, before the genre got bad
19:52:43 <elliott> ais523: I'm sure they'd be quite upset at the worthless part
19:53:18 <ais523> elliott: the really worthless ones, nobody lives on
19:53:24 <ais523> so there's nobody to get upset at the insult
19:53:35 <elliott> ais523: I'll be upset for them.
19:53:45 <Gregor> elliott: By the way, where's Saskatchewan? :P
19:54:04 <Gregor> Canada is as big as Europe :P
19:54:11 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, also apparently the sailing there is really good.
19:54:13 <Taneb> It's near the middle at the bottom!
19:54:21 <elliott> Gregor: Saskatchewan is a big part of Canada.
19:55:31 <Gregor> By the standard of Canadian provinces, Saskatchewan is pretty normal-sized I'd say.
19:55:34 <Taneb> I JUST HEARD THE NOISE MY PHONE MAKES WHEN I HAVE A TEXT MESSAGE
19:55:41 <elliott> Taneb: NOOOOOOOOOooooooOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOOooOOOOOOooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
19:55:44 <monqy> do you have a text message
19:55:56 <Taneb> Only in the strictest sense
19:56:01 <Taneb> It was from twitter
19:57:03 <Taneb> Make sure you don't get any Muck in that, oerjan
19:57:04 <itidus20> λx. x λy. y λz.z λw. w z y x == (λx.((x)λy.((y)λz.((z)λw.((((w)z)y)x)))))
19:57:44 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
19:58:25 <Taneb> itidus20: Looks right
19:58:45 <Taneb> itidus20: But I would avoid the second one like THE PLAGUE
19:59:50 <elliott> Pretty sure λ syntax is ambiguous in that position, but w/e.
20:00:00 <oerjan> i think λx. x (λy. y (λz. z (λw. w z y x))) would be more reasonable, it helps parsing without being unreadable
20:00:24 <Gregor> elliott: Hey, where's Arkansas? Also how do you pronounce it? Also hahaha I'm indirectly comparing Arkansas to Scotland (I guess that should be "haha"'d at Phantom_Hoover though)
20:00:39 <itidus20> elliott: well yeah.. good point.. the book has an interpretation.. i forgot to mention that
20:01:14 <elliott> Southern US, but I already googled it by the time I remembered that :P
20:01:31 <itidus20> the book uses some notations such as: E1 E2 E3 means ((E1 E2) E3)
20:01:39 <elliott> itidus20: that's standard notation
20:01:39 <itidus20> and λx . E1 E2 E3 means (λx . (E1 E2 E3)) and not ((λx . E1 E2) E3).
20:01:53 <itidus20> i dont actually know its a chapter i found online in pdf format
20:02:31 <itidus20> following notational conventions allow abbreviations that reduce the number
20:02:56 <oerjan> itidus20: looks pretty similar to haskell's convention, except for the symbols
20:02:56 <Phantom_Hoover> <Gregor> elliott: Hey, where's Arkansas? Also how do you pronounce it? Also hahaha I'm indirectly comparing Arkansas to Scotland (I guess that should be "haha"'d at Phantom_Hoover though)
20:03:09 <Sgeo> I should stop randomly shouting UPDATE into MSPA channels
20:03:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Somewhere in the middle, possibly to the south? also "arkansaw".
20:03:21 <Sgeo> Even with context that I'm just shouting it randomly
20:03:36 <elliott> I hope Gregor doesn't ask me about something not on the American continent :P
20:03:36 <monqy> Sgeo: randomly as in not necessarily when an update actually has happened?
20:04:00 <Gregor> My point was just that, as bizarre as it was to not know where Scotland is (which I am not forgiving), it's not like you've got a razor-sharp impression of our continent either.
20:04:11 <oerjan> elliott: what's the capital of burkina faso ;P
20:04:20 <itidus20> trouble is since i only have a chapter of the book theres no answers :P
20:04:32 <Gregor> I'm not going to ask about Asia or Africa because I don't know where anything is there X-P
20:04:34 * Sgeo doesn't know the states all that well. Just the obvious ones
20:04:38 <oerjan> (i'm asking because it sounds funny)
20:04:44 <elliott> Gregor: Sure, but I know what's a state/province of what :P
20:04:49 <Gregor> elliott: That's MuslimVALE.
20:04:59 <oerjan> elliott: ok _maybe_ that's what it means, but no
20:05:05 <elliott> Gregor: And not knowing that Scotland is related to England in any way is just unforgivable :P
20:05:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, I can place African and Asian countries on a rough north/south and east/west axis respectively.
20:05:39 <Gregor> <Phantom_Hoover> The Asian countries are roughly north-east of the African countries.
20:05:49 <Sgeo> I know that Japan is an island
20:06:07 <pikhq_> Japan is several islands.
20:06:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, the trick with Asia is that most of the west is stans.
20:06:20 <elliott> Of 6,852 islands, said Wikipedia.
20:06:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: which is definitely not "an island".
20:06:35 <elliott> Four is quite thoroughly bigger than one.
20:07:08 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: you mean most of the middle.
20:07:30 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ke8qi/a_14yearold_boy_got_into_a_fight_at_a_school_bus/c2jkyty?context=3
20:07:37 <pikhq_> oerjan: China is most of the middle.
20:07:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, shooting in the thigh is most certainly not something you do if you're avoiding lethality.
20:08:00 <elliott> The thigh is well-known to contain the brain.
20:08:06 <Sgeo> s/in the thigh/
20:08:16 <oerjan> pikhq_: erm no. china is at the east of asia. admittedly it's quite wide, but not that wide.
20:08:21 <pikhq_> (lit. middle country, or "central country")
20:08:21 <itidus20> seems to be Text: Formal Syntax and Semantics of Programming Languages
20:08:29 <elliott> Sgeo: Yes, it is literally impossible to non-fatally wound someone with a gun.
20:08:29 <pikhq_> (though part of that's just their ego)
20:08:32 <Phantom_Hoover> There is at least one big artery in the thigh, and cutting it will kill you from blood loss long before any treatment can be made.
20:08:43 <Sgeo> Wasn't entirely aware when I wrote that that the thigh would be especially lethal, just that in general you don't shoot to wound
20:08:44 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, it is not impossible, it is just much much harder than most people think.
20:09:06 <elliott> Just go for the ribcage, it has a lot of bones
20:09:56 <pikhq_> oerjan: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Asia_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg Okay, so it's not *most* of the middle. But holy fuck it's huge.
20:10:14 <elliott> How serious are ear-wounds
20:10:22 <elliott> Can you just blow someone's ear off and watch it flap away
20:10:24 <Gregor> elliott: How good is your aim? :P
20:10:40 <elliott> Gregor: My hands are never not shaky. So let's give it a try!
20:11:07 <Gregor> "Who else has both ears pierced? Pirates! But then, they're sailors."
20:12:34 <oerjan> pikhq_: hm it actually looks plausible that the center of mass might be in china. i'm surprised.
20:13:08 <Taneb> I can't be bothered to scroll up, you see
20:13:43 <HackEgo> 2010-09-12.txt:04:29:12: <pikhq> cpressey: Permission requested to murder you deeply.
20:13:56 <elliott> `logurl 2010-09-12.txt:04:29:12:
20:13:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2010-09-12
20:14:32 <Sgeo> Why am I giglly
20:14:47 <HackEgo> 2011-09-04.txt:21:32:49: <elliott> Gregor: Also, object fields should totally be immutable by default :P
20:15:03 * Sgeo is entirely 100% sober
20:16:35 <Taneb> That's about 2% more sober than me
20:17:04 <oerjan> elliott: also, the answer is ouagadougou
20:17:20 <Taneb> That's the capital of Burkina Faso!
20:17:37 <oerjan> Taneb: "that was the question"
20:18:26 <Taneb> What a crazy world
20:18:42 <Gregor> What's the capital of OREGON???
20:19:03 <oerjan> Gregor: is this one of those tricky cases where it's _not_ portland?
20:19:12 <Gregor> oerjan: IT IS ... like most US states.
20:19:28 <Gregor> I would estimate that less than half of US states have their capital in the largest city.
20:19:45 <olsner> Q: What's that capital of [...]? A: Irrelevant.
20:20:11 <elliott> Is there any capital not named Portland
20:20:16 <Gregor> What's the largest city ... /in the woooooooorld/?
20:20:23 <elliott> I always used to think Portland was a country
20:20:44 <Gregor> I thought it was Mexico City. But I also think it depends on your definition.
20:20:46 <olsner> largest by what measure? if by importance, the one I am currently in
20:20:49 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_cities
20:20:59 <Taneb> Portland is an islandy peninsula thing in Devon or is it Dorset
20:21:02 <Sgeo> I think the main reason I've heard of Portland, Oregon is 1/0
20:21:13 <elliott> Gregor: It's either Tokyo or Shanghai
20:21:22 <elliott> Mexico City is like number two or so
20:21:28 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sgeo> I think the main reason I've heard of Portland, Oregon is 1/0
20:21:52 <Phantom_Hoover> <Gregor> I would estimate that less than half of US states have their capital in the largest city.
20:22:21 <Sgeo> http://www.undefined.net/1/0/?strip=993
20:22:57 <Taneb> No, but it's the biggest
20:22:59 <elliott> I thought it was Edinburgh.
20:23:01 <Gregor> As in, "(state [not US sense, governmental entity] with stupid capital) friends"
20:23:11 <Taneb> It's actually bigger than Hexham
20:23:19 <elliott> "capital of scotlan" --> "Answer: Edinburgh, assuming scotlan is an administrative division. Computed by Wolfram|Alpha at Tue Sep 13 2011 21:23:42 GMT+0100 (BST)"
20:23:52 <oerjan> otoh i just learned the other week from a quiz that birmingham was the second largest city in the ... hm was it the uk or just england
20:23:58 <Sgeo> The network of Scots
20:23:59 <Gregor> Edinburgh IS the capital of scotlan, it's just not the capital of Scotland is all.
20:24:23 <Taneb> Wow, Hexham and Scotland have swapped populations
20:24:24 <Gregor> oerjan: It's the second largest ... airport in the UK :P
20:24:38 <Taneb> Prudhoe and Scotland
20:24:47 <Gregor> BUT WHAT IS THE CAPITAL OF HEXHAM (the land of six pigs)
20:25:22 <elliott> I'm gonna call this place Sixpig from now on.
20:25:54 <olsner> or, using the sanskrit name for six, shitbacon
20:25:58 <Sgeo> The amusement park where you ride pigs?
20:26:23 <Sgeo> Wait, that makes no snse
20:26:34 <oerjan> olsner: why not use the swedish word duh
20:26:43 <Gregor> "Why do you like Six Flags?" "I LIKE RIDING FLAGS"
20:28:16 <Taneb> It's a little village to the West
20:28:21 <Gregor> Also I keep misreading "Prudhoe" as "Purdue"
20:28:31 <Taneb> Practically in Hexham
20:28:37 <Taneb> But really to one side
20:28:40 <oerjan> Gregor: perhaps that's how purdue was named
20:28:48 <Taneb> One of my friends lives there
20:29:03 <elliott> hmm, this is a very strange eval
20:29:13 <elliott> it's more like calling a procedure than actual eval
20:30:17 <HackEgo> 2009-01-09.txt:17:14:14: <ehird> OH NO, PORNOGRAPHY
20:30:33 <HackEgo> 2010-08-05.txt:22:37:36: <oerjan> cpressey: evaluations/pure computations?
20:30:38 <HackEgo> 2011-02-02.txt:21:01:16: <elliott> zygohistomorphic_prepromorphism f = g_prepro (distZygoT (liftAlgebra f) (distHisto id))
20:30:46 <HackEgo> 2007-05-29.txt:22:32:26: <oklopol> eval(code){code.replace("\\n","\n"); s=code.split("\n"); if(s.length==1)print code; else eval(s[0].regex_replace(s[1],s[2])); }
20:30:46 <Taneb> I keep forgetting that Fellside is a place
20:30:57 <HackEgo> 2011-01-18.txt:17:32:55: <elliott> ais523: eval doesn't operate on strings here
20:31:09 <HackEgo> 2006-01-14.txt:00:31:39: <fizzie> It's not good style, but you could generate a temporary name and that way use a predicate received as an argument, which would be like "eval"ing the argument in perl or some lisp-like thing.
20:31:30 <Gregor> `log eval.*pornography
20:31:34 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:20:31:30: <Gregor> `log eval.*pornography
20:31:56 <elliott> It can give that for things that actually have answers, too.
20:32:16 <oerjan> `log agrophnimorpic seprogniph
20:32:18 <Gregor> Yes, my main disappoint is in YOUUUUUUUU
20:32:20 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:20:32:16: <oerjan> `log agrophnimorpic seprogniph
20:32:37 <ais523> that query won't find itself
20:33:05 <HackEgo> 2008-05-20.txt:20:50:45: <ehird> WATERMELONS
20:33:18 <elliott> ais523: umm, that doesn't really do what you want
20:33:34 <HackEgo> 2008-05-20.txt:20:50:48: <ehird> WATERMELONS
20:33:44 <elliott> `log [^]]zygohistomorphic diodsjfof
20:33:50 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:20:33:34: <HackEgo> 2008-05-20.txt:20:50:48: <ehird> WATERMELONS
20:34:10 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to frownyface.
20:34:10 <HackEgo> 2008-06-13.txt:19:33:20: <Slereah_> ERDOS BACON
20:34:14 -!- frownyface has changed nick to copumpkin.
20:34:24 <elliott> Does anyone know CHR? I suppose not.
20:34:32 <oerjan> erdos bacon? now that's just evil
20:35:05 <Gregor> <ais523> `log [^`] <ais523> that query won't find itself // actually this query WILL find itself.
20:35:21 <ais523> Gregor: see my correction above
20:35:32 <HackEgo> 2011-02-24.txt:00:18:19: <oerjan> Mathnerd314: well i first detected accidental self-reference
20:36:01 <HackEgo> 2009-05-05.txt:17:35:19: <ehird> GregorR: Selling non-scarce resources is inherently immoral, imo.
20:36:08 <HackEgo> 2010-03-01.txt:13:27:43: <alise> trust Eliezer Yudkowsky to remark on how immoral creating a lookup table can be
20:36:13 <HackEgo> 2008-04-01.txt:19:26:38: <ehird> ' PLEASE NOTE THAT IMMORTALITY IS TREASON'
20:36:28 <HackEgo> 2011-01-01.txt:19:32:02: <oerjan> THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
20:36:30 <elliott> oerjan: that's a quote from your interp in intercal, no?
20:36:39 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:20:36:35: <Gregor> `log immorale
20:36:42 <HackEgo> 2007-07-13.txt:21:15:30: <lament> SimonRC: i think an alternate mood for "to be" would be nice
20:36:45 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:20:36:41: <Gregor> `log immortale
20:36:47 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:20:36:44: <elliott> `log amplicate
20:36:54 <HackEgo> 2009-09-10.txt:20:35:41: <ehird> AnMaster: i'm the alternate universe ehird.
20:36:54 <HackEgo> 2008-10-19.txt:19:03:18: <fizzie> The books were: "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", "Phantasmagoria and Other Poems", "Sylvie and Bruno", "The Game of Logic", "The Hunting of the Snark" and "Through the Looking-Glass"
20:37:04 <HackEgo> 2011-07-13.txt:22:45:00: <Phantom_Hoover> augur, you'll have to comb the logs.
20:37:13 <HackEgo> 2010-12-01.txt:16:56:56: <elliott> Phantom_Hoover_: But C-CoRN is awesome.
20:37:17 <ais523> HackEgo: I'm disappointed that that fizzie quote didn't mention Bjorn
20:37:24 <HackEgo> 2010-12-21.txt:22:05:26: <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Phantomhn Hoover?
20:37:26 <HackEgo> 2010-07-27.txt:23:58:31: <aliseiphone> SLOWLY DISROBING EVERY PERSON IN THE ROOM, BRIAN BLESSED THOUGHT OF BJORN, LOUDLY.
20:37:33 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: that's a quote from your interp in intercal, no? <-- um i doubt it was intended as such...
20:37:43 <ais523> elliott: hey, is the meme-bjorn pronounced "byorn" or "b'jorn"?
20:37:43 <elliott> oerjan: I meant the <HackEgo> 2008-04-01.txt:19:26:38: <ehird> ' PLEASE NOTE THAT IMMORTALITY IS TREASON'
20:37:50 <elliott> which I suspect was a quote from that
20:37:51 <Taneb> Samsung and Apple hate eachother
20:37:52 <elliott> ais523: I think the latter
20:38:00 <ais523> so do I, for some reason
20:38:20 <elliott> oerjan: do you have a link to it, so that I can check?
20:38:53 <oerjan> elliott: ah indeed it is
20:39:11 <itidus20> so i can tell myself zero is λf.λx.x and that λf.λx.x is (λf.(λx.(x))), but i can't imagine what use this is
20:39:43 <elliott> itidus20: you want numbers, no?
20:39:49 <elliott> that's a representation of the natural numbers
20:40:00 <itidus20> i much prefer to say ram in computer memory is in the binary states 0 and 1
20:40:11 <itidus20> it makes more sense to my poor brain
20:40:12 <elliott> you don't know what you're talking about
20:40:27 <Taneb> They are in HIGH and LOW states
20:40:27 <ais523> well, /technically/ it could end up metastable if you overclocked it
20:40:42 <ais523> I doubt it'd stay that way for long
20:41:03 <ais523> but there's a theorem that there's always going to be some metastable state that persists arbitrarily long
20:41:26 <itidus20> what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it
20:41:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Obviously not
20:41:37 <elliott> `addquote <itidus20> what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it
20:41:38 <HackEgo> 659) <itidus20> what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it
20:41:52 <itidus20> shift more pebbles into your visual field and you can count them
20:42:13 <Taneb> What if you drew two circles on each pebble?
20:43:09 <Taneb> That has very little applications in lambda calculus
20:43:17 <Taneb> I just wanted to see what you would say
20:43:23 <itidus20> absence of pebbles in the eye calculator = zero
20:43:29 <Taneb> I think you'd have twice as many circles as pepples
20:43:59 <itidus20> i don't have any mathematical background
20:45:17 <Taneb> Go back to f(f(x)) and so on
20:45:42 <Taneb> What if x wasn't 0, but another lambda calculus number thing
20:46:04 <Taneb> With the f and x already filled in
20:46:48 <oerjan> elliott: http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/intercal/unlambda.li btw
20:47:35 <elliott> oerjan: hm what's te .l part do
20:48:53 <itidus20> maybe i am unconciously blocking myself from lambda cacl
20:49:02 <itidus20> like i am trying to resist something about it
20:49:08 <Taneb> I thought the same
20:49:15 <Taneb> Then one day, I just cracked it
20:49:17 <itidus20> as if it were trying to undermine something i believe it
20:49:34 <itidus20> i have never had such trouble to understand a concept
20:49:50 <elliott> that's because you've refused to just read a tutorial
20:50:01 <elliott> you're trying to figure it out yourself from scratch and this only works for utterly trivial things
20:50:30 <itidus20> for the beginner and the expert at lambda calculus there is still only LC expressions..
20:50:37 <Taneb> You have to stop thinking about λfx.f x as a number and think about it as a function that takes two things and returns a third
20:50:59 <itidus20> then why is it called a number?
20:51:07 <Taneb> Because it represents a number
20:51:21 <Taneb> It's like a painting can represent a church BUT IT IS NOT A CHURCH
20:52:11 <Taneb> (λfx.f x)(λx.x+1)(0) <--- Evaluate, itidus20
20:52:12 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, more accurately, 'number' essentially just means 'thing that behaves in a certain way'.
20:52:22 <oerjan> church numerals are the church encoding of the data type data Nat = Succ Nat | Zero
20:52:40 <elliott> he's had enough confusion by thinking you "mix" the LC with "other procedures from outside"
20:52:40 <olsner> Taneb: what you call "churches" are just representations of paintings
20:52:43 <Taneb> Yeah, I'm probably doing more harm than good
20:52:54 <elliott> using standard arithmetic notation won't help that :P
20:52:59 <oerjan> or the fold for that datatype
20:53:03 <itidus20> hang on 4.. 5 ..6 ..7 posts flying past.. now i will cut and paste the thing into my typing box
20:53:04 <Phantom_Hoover> In the case of natural numbers, which the Church encoding is a case of, you simply need to have something called 0, and something called S, and some guarantees about their behaviour.
20:53:09 <Sgeo> I forget. Church numerals are functions, or what?
20:53:27 * Sgeo should just wikipedia
20:53:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Obviously this will help immensely, considering itidus20 doesn't even grasp the basics of how LC works.
20:53:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, you really aren't having a very good day today, are you?
20:54:01 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I'm sorry I can only argue that I was less unhelpful than Taneb.
20:54:16 <Taneb> I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee
20:54:45 <Sgeo> Can you build reals in lambda calculus
20:54:48 <elliott> it doesn't help that probably the best-qualified people are deliberately avoiding trying :P
20:54:56 <elliott> Sgeo: today is not your day
20:55:20 <oerjan> `addquote <Taneb> I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee
20:55:22 <HackEgo> 660) <Taneb> I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee
20:55:29 <Sgeo> I mean.. wait, clearly, integers are a subset of reals
20:55:42 <Sgeo> Can you build the ... why wouldn't you be able to, just and all the computables
20:56:02 <elliott> Sgeo: Have you gone insane from not eating or something.
20:56:15 <Sgeo> I should go hurry to school
20:56:36 <Taneb> itidus20: what evaluates to 1 again? I'm lost
20:56:50 <elliott> `addquote <Sgeo> Can you build the ... why wouldn't you be able to, just and all the computables
20:56:52 <HackEgo> 661) <Sgeo> Can you build the ... why wouldn't you be able to, just and all the computables
20:56:59 <elliott> Sgeo: That answers Phantom_Hoover's question?
20:57:10 <Sgeo> elliott, technically, yes
20:57:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait of course you Americans call university college and then call that school because you are stupid and bad.
20:57:59 <Taneb> Now, (λfx.f x)(λnfx.f(n f x))((λfx.f (f x))(λx.x+1)(0))
20:58:19 <elliott> You're just going to make him think the LC has a number type.
20:58:24 <elliott> Except express that more confusingly.
20:58:44 <Taneb> I'm right enough to fool myself
20:58:51 <Taneb> Which makes me even more wrong
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21:00:08 <oerjan> Taneb: i suspect you misparenthesized that
21:00:31 <Taneb> It is pfuew- bracketed perfectly
21:00:32 <itidus20> because (λfx.f x)(λx.x+1)(0) = (λf.(λx.(f x)))(λx.(x+1))(0) = ((λx.(x+1)) (0)) = (0+1) = (1)
21:00:58 <oerjan> Taneb: well the second function never gets all its arguments
21:01:00 <itidus20> sorry i didnt actually start looking at that other thing
21:01:11 <elliott> itidus20: note how for every church numeral n, n(λx.x+1)(0) produces n as a numeral.
21:01:20 <elliott> (If Taneb is going to be confusing like that, I might as well help.)
21:02:04 <Taneb> If you call λx.x+1 f and 0 x, you can forget about the 0 and the +1!
21:02:44 <elliott> itidus20 will know LC by the end of the week.
21:03:11 <itidus20> my brain seizes up often in a way which isn't clear externally
21:03:36 <itidus20> i am surprised sometimes i can remember how to walk
21:04:39 <itidus20> my ultimate goal for LC is any applications i can find for it in game development
21:04:45 <oerjan> clearly dorfs love lutefisk
21:04:56 <itidus20> by which i don't mean writing games in haskell or scheme
21:05:08 <itidus20> but more generalized applications of it.. anything really
21:05:09 <elliott> itidus20: That is a very hubristic way to go about it.
21:06:13 <itidus20> for instance, i recently started to think of a scene from a play as a function..
21:06:37 <itidus20> like suppose you take a shakespeare play and make all the characters names be variables
21:06:39 <elliott> You are still trying to construct analogies in place of understanding?
21:06:55 <elliott> You are making this hard for yourself by being stubborn about it.
21:06:56 <itidus20> oh well.. functions exist in parallel to LC
21:07:13 <itidus20> i cant stop making analogies just for LC
21:07:51 <itidus20> in some role playing games the characters name is a variable..
21:07:53 <elliott> You could stop making analogies so that you'd start actually understanding.
21:08:10 <itidus20> so the entire game is a function of that
21:09:32 <itidus20> uhh at least where his name is invoked
21:10:48 <itidus20> ok i know how to explain where my head is at
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21:12:11 <elliott> 2007-01-17.txt:23:15:01: <oklopol> rarely
21:12:11 <elliott> 2007-01-19.txt:21:58:04: <oklopol> you rarely depend on overflow
21:12:11 <elliott> 2007-01-19.txt:21:58:19: <oklopol> and in math you rarely have to iterate through memory
21:13:13 <itidus20> http://oi56.tinypic.com/25f254x.jpg
21:14:10 <itidus20> it doesn't have an answer section since its only 1 chapter and i presume actual answers at end of book
21:14:45 <itidus20> if it bothers with answers at all that is
21:16:15 <oerjan> itidus20: well question 1 is probably not very standard, but depends on the precise rules set down in the book
21:16:54 <itidus20> i might have been confused when doing it.. its not a big deal anyway
21:17:53 <oerjan> indeed that's a rather trivial matter of syntax
21:18:19 <itidus20> so i get that taneb's syntax is: λxyz.E == (λx.(λy.(λz.(E))))
21:18:58 <itidus20> haha (no its not taneb's syntax god damn it, its a very common syntax!)
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21:35:32 * oerjan looks for the invisible newcomer which elliott is greeting
21:39:03 -!- sllide has joined.
21:40:04 <oerjan> back from his long travels, he discovered his hometown had gone quiet ... too quiet.
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21:40:26 <atehwa> oerjan: that reminds me of Faxanadu
21:40:38 <atehwa> the game for Nintendo 8bit
21:40:48 <elliott> oerjan: yeah can i come to trondheim instead
21:40:59 <elliott> it's right next to scotland, right?
21:41:07 <oerjan> well you're already used to rain i assume...
21:41:12 <atehwa> oerjan: you live in Trondheim?
21:41:21 <atehwa> my friend is somewhere there nearby
21:41:32 <oerjan> your friend is in HELL
21:41:36 <elliott> and with that, oerjan broke into a run
21:41:59 <elliott> only finns use IRCnet, right?
21:42:10 <elliott> i have not seen a single non-finnish person mention it, ever
21:42:12 <atehwa> well I don't really know :)
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21:42:33 <atehwa> IRCnet is big, I don't think it could consist of Finns solely
21:42:43 <atehwa> IRCnet is the first IRC network
21:42:54 <oerjan> depends. how many million people are on IRCnet?
21:43:00 <CakeProphet> < elliott> CakeProphet: You're stupid in the past
21:43:18 <elliott> undernet predates ircnet, even
21:43:25 <elliott> I think ircnet just descends from efnet
21:43:28 <atehwa> depends on the definition of sameness, I guess
21:43:32 <CakeProphet> so I didn't really understand the point of lambdas other than to be used with map.
21:43:38 <oerjan> CakeProphet: but of course, to be news it would have to be in the future
21:43:41 <elliott> atehwa: well, there can't be more than one server there ever was :)
21:43:46 <elliott> atehwa: well, there can't be more than one first server there ever was :)
21:44:02 <atehwa> the first server was tolsun.oulu.fi
21:44:20 <atehwa> well, the first network didn't really have a name.
21:44:48 <elliott> huh, you're not allowed to run bots on ircnet without permission? weird
21:45:01 <atehwa> no, that's not true...
21:45:05 <fungot> CakeProphet: perhaps i should read about contification if you haven't
21:45:11 <atehwa> depends on your server
21:45:17 <fungot> CakeProphet: and the equally endless " ha ha crappy microsoft programs"
21:45:19 <elliott> Keep in mind: IRC is a privilege, not a right
21:45:19 <elliott> [...]- No bots! They will be removed from this server without hesitation.
21:45:22 <atehwa> many IRCnet servers have overly strict policies
21:45:24 <elliott> that's irc.xs4all.nl at least
21:45:36 <elliott> my source is wikipedia, so maybe it's a totally unrepresentative server :P
21:45:49 <elliott> "IRCnet mostly consists of Finnish communities." Could someone please verify this? Scoo 17:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
21:45:56 <atehwa> well, it's not true: bots abound on IRCnet.
21:45:58 <elliott> at least one other person in the world thinks so :P
21:46:10 <HackEgo> 2011-03-18.txt:18:02:56: <oerjan> that's due to my decent knowledge of the finnish gibberish
21:46:17 <elliott> atehwa: hehe, I'm sure lots of non-permitted stuff abounds on EFnet... doesn't _necessarily_ mean it's ok:P
21:46:33 <elliott> I wonder what the largest network is nowadays
21:46:37 <elliott> I'm sure freenode is up there
21:46:43 <atehwa> well, _everybody_ means every "true" channel on IRCnet has a bot to regulate it
21:46:48 <elliott> maybe quakenet... wikipedia says quakenet
21:46:54 <HackEgo> 2006-04-21.txt:00:29:21: <kipple> "Finland" in Finnish is "Suomi", so I guess it it is something similar
21:47:08 <atehwa> what's typical of IRCnet is that it does not have a central service/bot that you can invite on your channel
21:47:49 <elliott> yeah, serverlessness is kinda weird
21:48:18 <atehwa> yes, it's an oldschool irc network if there ever was one :)
21:51:53 <atehwa> wow, this wikipedia article is really interesting
21:52:01 <atehwa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRCnet
21:52:34 <atehwa> but maybe that's just because I'm so interested in how social hierarchy works in the Internet
21:52:39 <elliott> I like the "with the support of Jarkko Oikarinen" part... IRCNet: God's Chosen Network
21:53:01 <elliott> I wonder if it's even technically possible for freenode to split
21:53:30 <elliott> I don't really know much about server linking
21:54:11 <CakeProphet> I believe you could have a netsplit without a subsequent join, if that's what you mean.
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21:54:38 <elliott> I'm just wondering how easy it would be for half of freenode to split off and rename overnight
21:54:51 <atehwa> in IRC, server linking means that the servers share _all_ knowledge about nicks, channels, etc
21:55:32 <CakeProphet> elliott: sounds on the difficult side to me.
21:55:54 <atehwa> elliott: so what do you think freenode could split off from?
21:56:10 <elliott> CakeProphet: not /us/, server operators
21:57:18 <elliott> if they rename us to ##esoteric
21:57:22 <elliott> we should totally ditch this lame-ass network
21:57:48 <itidus20> humm.... is lambda calc level knowledge on the same level as knowing how to write compilers?
21:58:02 <atehwa> actually, the article about IRCnet is really interesting also in that it states many assumptions about IRC usage that I've taken for granted for a very long time
21:58:22 <elliott> so are compilers really, (just not the "traditional" kind), but they're harder than LC
21:58:28 <CakeProphet> one does not make it easier to do the other, and vice versa.
21:58:35 <atehwa> LC is just a rewrite system
21:58:49 <elliott> atehwa: I was raised on freenode, I assume so much :(
21:58:57 <atehwa> where you have first-class rewriting rules, and nothing else
21:59:33 <elliott> LC isn't much like rewriting rules (it's a rewrite system but not really a rewrite-system /language/) because they can't examine their inputs
21:59:40 <elliott> apart from applying them, of course
21:59:41 <atehwa> elliott: I assume, for instance, that no one will care if your channel is taken over
22:00:24 <itidus20> is lambda calc taught at a bachelor degree level?
22:00:30 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:00:33 <elliott> atehwa: I assume that channels can't be taken over, except when freenode staff decide to do it to inactive mainspace channels because your nick dropped because you didn't log in for like a month
22:01:56 <itidus20> i.e. is lambda calc something you study when working on a phd or masters?
22:02:12 <elliott> lambda calculus is taught in any decent cs course
22:02:30 <atehwa> elliott: wow, talk about secure
22:02:54 <elliott> atehwa: I think it's actually something like thirty days that your nick can be dropped after
22:02:55 <itidus20> elliott: is it ever taught to a student working towards a bachelor's degree?
22:03:40 <atehwa> elliott: nick wars still happen occasionally on IRCnet
22:03:49 <atehwa> there's no service to register nicks
22:04:09 <atehwa> nor should there be, probably
22:04:14 <elliott> atehwa: clearly you just need a bot to spam anyone who steals your nick without giving the password
22:04:38 <atehwa> what password? on IRCnet, there are no passwords
22:04:48 <atehwa> you protect your nick by being always present
22:04:58 <elliott> atehwa: The password the bot knows, duh.
22:05:09 <elliott> It's your own private NickServ, except instead of forcibly renaming you, it just tries to be really annoying.
22:05:34 <Gregor> You could just have it join every channel that the nick purloiner joins and after every line, say "THIS PERSON IS A FRAUD. DO NOT LISTEN."
22:05:39 <atehwa> but it would have to be on every channel in order to notice a nick offender.
22:05:59 <elliott> atehwa: Nah, it'd just /whois every ten seconds.
22:06:08 <atehwa> ... and, on IRCnet, most server won't let you join 20+ channels
22:06:18 <atehwa> and that applies to bots, too.
22:06:26 <Gregor> The different servers on IRCnet have different join limits? :P
22:06:28 <atehwa> elliott: I suppose you mean /ison.
22:06:35 <elliott> atehwa: there's no whois on ircnet?
22:06:47 <elliott> you finns are... so primitive :|
22:07:03 <atehwa> elliott: who should the bot do a /whois on?
22:07:30 <elliott> or does whois require hostname
22:08:18 <atehwa> are you suggesting there should be a bot for _every_ user that wants their nick monitored?
22:08:46 <elliott> every _real_ channel has a bot
22:08:49 <elliott> every _real_ user has a bot
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22:10:08 <atehwa> on IRCnet, channel bots are common, but user bots.. unheard of
22:10:17 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `m t'
22:10:17 <lambdabot> against inferred type `forall s....
22:10:21 <atehwa> because every _real_ user has a screen
22:10:28 <elliott> atehwa: Well clearly I need to innovate.
22:10:36 <elliott> shachaf: Augh, what. That's a GHC bug, right?
22:10:46 <elliott> I know rank-N types do that kind of thing, but...
22:10:59 <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses.
22:10:59 <Gregor> On SovietRussiaNet, users manage network services.
22:11:08 <elliott> shachaf: BUT THOSE SHOULD PARSE IDENTICALLY
22:11:14 <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed.
22:11:43 <Gregor> `addquote <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed.
22:11:46 <HackEgo> 662) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed.
22:12:20 <Gregor> Welcome to the out-of-context quote database!
22:12:25 <elliott> shachaf: You've been QUOTED.
22:13:41 <HackEgo> 19) <oerjan> ehird has gone insane, clearly. \ 24) <oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste \ 25) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <oerjan> In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste" \ 26) <ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers \ 27) IN EINEM
22:13:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1312
22:13:56 <elliott> Now you have all the quotes.
22:14:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19059
22:14:29 <Gregor> Also, every True Scotsman has a bot.
22:14:36 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Right?
22:14:43 <elliott> Who's Phantom_Hoover's bot? elliott?
22:15:05 <elliott> Do we really have over 650 quotes?
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22:15:37 <Sgeo> Not all of them are #esoteric
22:16:16 <elliott> Also all of the ones beyond like quote fifty.
22:16:19 <elliott> Gregor: I don't like how you liked Python in 2006.
22:17:00 <Sgeo> 107 < 50 according to elliott
22:17:14 <elliott> I thought you were hurrying to school.
22:17:29 <Sgeo> I'm done hurrying to school
22:17:50 <Gregor> I'm fairly certain I didn't know Python in 2006.
22:18:14 * Sgeo is listening to the professor drone about HTM
22:18:16 <elliott> It was your "preferred non-web scripting language".
22:18:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:18:28 <Gregor> I suppose that's a distinct possibility :P
22:18:29 <elliott> http://eris.berkeley.edu/ hahaha
22:18:37 <Gregor> I have since discovered that Python is extremely terrible.
22:18:45 <elliott> <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:22:18:16: <elliott> It was your "preferred non-web scripting language".
22:18:49 <elliott> That does not help my tab recovery, HackEgo.
22:18:53 <elliott> <elliott> `log preferred non-web
22:18:54 <elliott> <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:22:18:45: <elliott> <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:22:18:16: <elliott> It was your "preferred non-web scripting language".
22:19:13 <Gregor> You SURE you don't want to filter HackEgo? :P
22:19:16 <elliott> 2006-04-22.txt:06:13:58: <GregorR> That being said, I now have a non-web scripting language of preference, which is good because perl is amazingly bad.
22:19:23 -!- DH____ has joined.
22:19:35 <elliott> 06:09:58: <lament> i like python
22:19:35 <elliott> 06:12:53: <GregorR> lament: DAMN YOU AND YOUR GOOD PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:19:35 <elliott> 06:13:58: <GregorR> That being said, I now have a non-web scripting language of preference, which is good because perl is amazingly bad.
22:19:35 <elliott> 06:15:04: <GregorR> I still don't enjoy the whole no-block-ending-keyword thing, but I'm learning to grok that, and it's a small price to pay.
22:19:37 <elliott> 06:15:59: <lament> don't worry, you'll enjoy it soon enough.
22:19:39 <elliott> 06:16:08: <lament> it's really way better than any other way.
22:19:41 <elliott> 06:17:28: <GregorR> I just don't like that you can end multiple blocks in one swift move, especially since it can sometimes be unclear exactly what block you just dropped to >_>
22:19:59 <Gregor> Tastes change *shrugs*
22:20:06 <elliott> Um no sorry you are Bad Forever.
22:20:08 <HackEgo> 2011-01-28.txt:23:27:51: <quintopia> elliott: you would be stupid to do that. you can create fenced off areas indoors.
22:20:29 <Sgeo> am i bad forever
22:21:55 <CakeProphet> elliott: also you're not allowed to read logs of me with that nickname. :P
22:22:11 <elliott> I really need to slog through the entire Kernel report sometime.
22:22:27 <HackEgo> 2010-08-28.txt:22:43:01: <Sgeo> Anything with "Taxi" in the name should be an interpreter for Taxi
22:22:30 <elliott> CakeProphet: now you're old and naive.
22:22:45 <HackEgo> 2009-08-03.txt:19:06:11: <HackEgo> \ I'm the one who created this project. Known as Sgeo almost everywhere I'm known, one place as Oegs, and one place as Sgeo2.
22:24:00 <CakeProphet> consider that I now know that lambdas and list comprehensions do not do the same things. :P
22:25:02 <HackEgo> 2009-09-20.txt:15:44:23: <AnMaster> ehird, ooh nice, but I was thinking more along the lines of rougelike in 3D
22:25:19 <CakeProphet> itidus20: I try to block out all thinking as much as possible.
22:25:27 <itidus20> so i could potentially invent my own notation such as: "λx." = "X"
22:26:15 <oerjan> itidus20: please google "wadler's law"
22:27:08 <itidus20> i know that capital letter has another use in LC but just saying
22:28:58 <CakeProphet> I have a notation whereby x is a function that solves the halting problem for all inputs.
22:29:19 <itidus20> so with what i am saying here can all LC expressions be expressed by the alphabet and parentheses?
22:30:14 <itidus20> assuming a maximum of 26 variables of course
22:30:15 <elliott> I like how you can tell when oerjan gives up.
22:31:06 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:31:07 <oerjan> itidus20: trivially so
22:31:37 <itidus20> elliott: ah but i am trying to determine which parts of LC can flex and bend without making any difference
22:32:00 <elliott> itidus20: before you actually understand it? ok
22:32:06 <itidus20> a second syntax i thought of was using coloured blocks to represent expressions
22:32:19 <itidus20> well there is nothing outside of the expressions
22:32:21 <oerjan> itidus20: ooh, google "alligator eggs"
22:32:33 <elliott> http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/
22:32:56 <itidus20> already seen the alligator eggs and the bird calls at an earlier stage...
22:33:17 <elliott> CakeProphet: Technically I used DDG.
22:33:39 <itidus20> i couldn't make sense of the bird calls though
22:34:20 <CakeProphet> elliott: if you google "furry strapon girls" and then use duckduckgo to search for "furry strapon girls"
22:34:26 <CakeProphet> you will see a distinct difference in the number of hits.
22:34:27 <oerjan> elliott: it's ok, ducks lay eggs too
22:34:37 <elliott> CakeProphet: I'm sure the former results are mostly junk
22:34:44 <elliott> seeing as Gregor was the first person to say that
22:34:52 <CakeProphet> elliott: but more representative of what you might find on the internet.
22:35:04 <elliott> I don't care what the internet has, I care about useful results
22:35:17 <elliott> In my trial, I found that DDG provided more useful results to me than Google on average
22:35:29 <Gregor> If I was the first person to say that, then my life is sad.
22:35:31 <elliott> I also preferred the UI and don't trust Google much, so I decided to switch to DDG
22:35:39 <Gregor> As furry strapon girls are the solution to nearly every problem.
22:36:25 <itidus20> just like.. in arithmetic the main thing is i have to arrange numbers and operators.. and then i can rewrite them and gradually arrive at a single number.. unless there are variables in the arithmetic expression
22:36:29 <CakeProphet> Gregor: and DDG is highly lacking in this realm.
22:36:39 <itidus20> which will mean i arrive at numbers and varables
22:37:08 <CakeProphet> itidus20: only numbers and variables? x 12 45 y is not valid I think.
22:37:48 <itidus20> and.. i can always take an operator and combine 2 arithmetic expressions
22:38:26 <itidus20> so a variable tends to imply part of an expression which is rewritable
22:38:38 <CakeProphet> all parts of an algebraic expression are rewritable.
22:39:24 <CakeProphet> now those expressions are interchangeable.
22:39:48 <itidus20> the operators are defined in such a way that you can always take any expression1 and rewrite it into: expression1 + expression2
22:39:52 <CakeProphet> but I'm not really sure what the point of this topic is.
22:40:56 <oerjan> expression1 + e^(i*pi) + 1
22:41:17 <itidus20> i just worded it badly cos im not a mathematician >.<
22:41:42 <oerjan> CakeProphet: it's rather hard to give a counterexample to something that is technically true.
22:42:15 <itidus20> for any expression1, you can have something like expression1 + expression2,.. you can do some kind of: (x*y) + expression2
22:42:30 <CakeProphet> I have two, which can also be 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0
22:42:34 <itidus20> i lose control of my english grammar at such times
22:42:50 <itidus20> oh yes.. expression + 0 = expressin
22:43:03 <itidus20> oh yes.. expression * 1 = expression
22:43:23 <oerjan> it's called having an identity element
22:43:26 <itidus20> (sorry didn't mean to retype oh yes) expression / expression = expression
22:43:33 <elliott> Gregor: Hey, can you stop all thirty-two bit machines from existing?
22:43:43 <oerjan> mind you, you _can_ define operators which don't have any
22:43:46 <CakeProphet> don't let them try to convince you otherwise.
22:43:52 <Gregor> Bahaha, "Take Penfold, he could be useful as a sacrifice."
22:44:11 <Gregor> `run uname -a | sed 's/^/elliott: PROBLEM SOLVED. /'
22:44:13 <HackEgo> elliott: PROBLEM SOLVED. Linux (none) 3.0.1-umlbox #5 Fri Aug 19 13:17:44 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
22:44:29 <elliott> Gregor: Thanks. Also are you watching Dangermouse.
22:44:34 <elliott> Is that because Taneb mentioned Dangermouse.
22:44:41 <elliott> Dangermouse is quality British culture.
22:44:53 <itidus20> elliott: i realise that is algebra and not LC which i am typing
22:44:54 <Gregor> elliott: No, I was watching Danger Mouse /when/ Taneb mentioned it.
22:45:00 <Gregor> elliott: And am still watching it.
22:45:01 <elliott> itidus20: no, x/x is not the same thing as x.
22:45:28 <itidus20> expression / 1 = expression :P sorry
22:45:34 <Gregor> If you say "1" I'll punch you :P
22:46:12 <CakeProphet> there is nothing esoteric about this topic.
22:46:25 <Gregor> elliott: The thing I don't get is ... was this ever a kids show? It was presented to me as such, but as far as I can tell, no kid would get it :P
22:46:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:47:06 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, we have smart kids in britain.
22:47:21 <elliott> I watched Danger Mouse as a kid, at least :P
22:47:52 <Gregor> 'cuz we have stupid kids in the USA.
22:47:57 <itidus20> expression = 0... expression/expression = 1?
22:48:08 <Gregor> And cartoons are just an alternative to ritalin.
22:48:10 <elliott> Gregor: Have you watched Top Cat -- wait you're American of course you've seen the entire Hanna-Barbera output.
22:48:19 <Gregor> itidus20: You need the hospital's rule.
22:49:13 <CakeProphet> Gregor: does the hospital's rule involve you punching someone?
22:50:01 <itidus20> chances of me comprehending < chances of elliott winning the lottery this week ... :D
22:50:14 <elliott> A good self-fulfilling prophecy.
22:50:34 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:50:41 <itidus20> elliott: do you think i should study hospital's rule?
22:50:57 -!- elliott has joined.
22:51:14 <CakeProphet> and not jump from lambda calculus to basic algebra to regular calculus.
22:51:15 <oerjan> elliott: i thought you were doing an ais-style quit there
22:51:28 <elliott> oerjan: no, i was restarting X.
22:51:29 <itidus20> maybe i was onto something there.. hahaha..
22:51:36 <elliott> oerjan: it's rage_/parts_ that ais does, not /quits.
22:51:59 <HackEgo> 2011-08-02.txt:21:01:29: <Taneb> "Heatwave bone breaks clog hospital."
22:52:08 <HackEgo> 2011-01-31.txt:02:39:52: <elliott> What surprises some observers, including advice columnist Ann Landers, is the extent to which people hold strong opinions on such a trivial topic. Defenders of either position cite advantages ranging from aesthetics, hospitality, and cleanliness; to paper conservation and the ease of detaching
22:52:22 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:22:52:19: <oerjan> `log l'hopital
22:52:30 <HackEgo> 2010-03-12.txt:16:18:45: <fax> AnMaster, it's just exploring the convergence/divergence of sequences of real numbers, then series (running totals of sequences), then lim & integrability - the big theorem from it is l'hopital
22:53:22 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:40: <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:17:35:26: <monqy> `log `log
22:53:38 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:18:33:30: <itidus20> `log log
22:53:55 <HackEgo> 2010-09-17.txt:13:05:54: <Vorpal> since clog logs doesn't include anything but nick
22:54:12 <Gregor> I have "OH GOD NOOOOOOOO" on my clipboard.
22:54:36 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:22:53:35: <itidus20> `log `log log
22:54:50 <itidus20> a nice easter egg for someone to find oneday perhaps
22:55:11 <HackEgo> 2011-09-13.txt:22:55:08: <CakeProphet> `log dick nipples
22:55:28 <HackEgo> 2007-12-30.txt:21:30:38: * Sgeo considers PSOX.py to be a bit of a project
22:55:41 <HackEgo> 2009-05-30.txt:01:52:52: <pikhq> goonx: It's kinda impoſsible, aſide from PSOX.
22:55:42 <HackEgo> 2007-09-10.txt:17:10:09: <bsmntbombdood> PSOX stands for "PSOX Sucks Other's Xenophobia"
22:55:53 <HackEgo> 2008-12-22.txt:05:59:12: <lolbot> Oh, that sound of male ego. You travel halfway across the galaxy and it's still the same song...-- Eve McHuron, "Mudd's Women", stardate 1330.1
22:55:57 <Gregor> elliott: By the way, you've better have watched Rocky and Bullwinkle *evil eye*
22:56:03 <elliott> `logurl 2008-12-22.txt:05:59:12:
22:56:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2008-12-22
22:56:08 <elliott> Gregor: >__________________________________________---__> i think i saw it once?????????//////////
22:56:16 <elliott> look ok usa cartoons are just not as good as uk cartoons
22:56:41 <Gregor> Rocky and Bullwinkle is better than EVERYTHING
22:56:42 <Sgeo> Avatar: The Last Airbender isn't good?
22:57:08 <HackEgo> 2011-02-11.txt:15:24:34: <Gregor> !bfjoust raping_turtle <
22:58:01 <itidus20> i was thinking of ninja turtles but, the comic was american, the animation was japanese
22:58:05 <Lymee> !bfjoust hi -*100000
22:58:08 -!- nooga has joined.
22:58:09 <CakeProphet> ITT: read things that were said in the past instead of talking in the present.
22:58:14 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_hi: 8.1
22:58:46 * Gregor expands the vertical smiley ^__^
23:00:31 <CakeProphet> oerjan: an excellent way to make meta-observations about a conversation.
23:00:58 <oerjan> ITT: excellent meta-observations
23:01:01 <itidus20> some day i hope someone makes a calculus of notations
23:01:33 <CakeProphet> but you don't really know what that means.
23:02:09 <oerjan> there are almost surely several possible meanings of that phrase for which someone already did
23:02:17 <itidus20> the problem i need to solve is to increase my personal understanding of all existant notations while not negating the benefits of that feat
23:02:37 <Lymee> !bfjoust bye +*100000
23:02:39 <CakeProphet> notations aren't even really that interesting.
23:02:40 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_bye: 8.1
23:02:53 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_hi: 8.1
23:03:01 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_bye: 15.4
23:03:16 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_hi: 15.4
23:04:08 <elliott> itidus20: you want to know the metalevel before the base level?
23:04:18 <elliott> deconstructing notation will not help you learn anything.
23:04:42 <CakeProphet> !bfjoust a_dozen_tits_many_success (.)*12[+]
23:04:48 <CakeProphet> !bfjoust a_dozen_tits_many_success (.)*12[+]
23:04:52 <EgoBot> Score for CakeProphet_a_dozen_tits_many_success: 15.4
23:05:51 <itidus20> the part of my psyche which is being passive aggressive is good at excuses
23:06:35 <itidus20> it is not for me to identify with my passive aggression.. to glamourize it
23:07:09 <CakeProphet> !bfjoust a_dozen_pairs_of_tits_many_success (.)*24[+]
23:07:12 <EgoBot> Score for CakeProphet_a_dozen_pairs_of_tits_many_success: 15.4
23:07:17 <itidus20> so that is the error in "im good at excuses"
23:08:19 <Lymee> !bfjoust not-so-perverted successes .*23[+]
23:08:22 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_not-so-perverted: 15.6
23:08:25 <itidus20> its probably even worse to try to de-identify with it... thats a cultish thing to do
23:08:28 <Lymee> !bfjoust not_so_perverted_successes .*23[+]
23:08:32 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_not_so_perverted_successes: 15.6
23:08:51 -!- CakeProphet has set topic: Freudian armchair psycho-babble | It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678!& | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
23:09:04 <elliott> Gregor: How does Fythe do parsing, again
23:09:07 <oerjan> is .*23 actually recognized
23:09:42 <Gregor> elliott: Quite well, thank you.
23:09:59 <Gregor> elliott: It's a memoized recursive descent parser (AKA a ratpack parser)
23:09:59 <Lymee> !bfjoust test0 >*2<
23:10:02 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_test0: 6.8
23:10:11 <Lymee> !bfjoust test0 ><*2
23:10:14 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_test0: 6.8
23:10:19 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_test1: 6.8
23:10:24 <Lymee> !bfjoust test2 >(<)*2
23:10:27 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_test2: 0.0
23:10:28 -!- oerjan has set topic: Freudian armchair psycho-babble | It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678!& | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
23:10:41 <elliott> Gregor: Isn't packrat parsing kinda slow? :P
23:10:48 <Lymee> !bfjoust not-so-pervertedly-named-successes (.)*23[+]
23:10:52 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_not-so-pervertedly-named-successes: 15.2
23:11:07 <elliott> The step could be really expensive :P
23:11:30 <elliott> Apparently there's already a PEG parser for Haskell but I BET IT SUCKS.
23:11:32 <Gregor> elliott: If you have an enormously-ambiguous grammar, it can be memory-expensive.
23:11:51 <oerjan> CakeProphet: less horribly evil spacing
23:11:58 <Gregor> Otherwise, it's roughly the same speed as recursive descent parsing, but with a better worst-case.
23:12:40 <elliott> Gregor: Right. I'm just tired of not being able to write left-recursive grammars :)
23:12:46 <EgoBot> Score for Lymee_plzreport: 23.1
23:13:01 <Gregor> elliott: Fythe supports left recursion with a simple transformation.
23:13:07 <elliott> I thought PEGs did in general.
23:13:12 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:13:17 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:13:32 <elliott> I wonder if I can get left-recursion working without observable sharing... (oerjan?)
23:13:48 <elliott> I'd have to try and look for the /RHS/ of any e.g. sequencing operator, as well as trying to see if the LHS will parse...
23:14:03 <Gregor> elliott: Sort of a definitional thing ...
23:14:05 <elliott> Then see if the string up to there is a valid LHS, and so on, until there's no more RHSs left in the string
23:14:16 <elliott> Obviously it's a lot SIMPLER with observable sharing :P
23:14:27 <elliott> And I bet Gregor has no idea what I'm talking about because he doesn't know what observable sharing is, and so thinks I'm a total kook.
23:14:59 <oerjan> haskellers can be observed to share
23:15:27 <elliott> Gregor: DO you know what observable sharing is? :-P
23:15:49 <elliott> Gregor: That's a weird way of saying no X-D
23:16:07 <Gregor> I would assume that it's a situation where, for efficiency sake, two immutable objects are referentially identical, and that fact is not supposed to be observable, but is
23:16:23 <Gregor> (Two properly equal immutable objects of course)
23:16:25 <elliott> It basically means you can extract the graph out of "x = f x y".
23:16:36 <elliott> Normally, you can't tell that the first parameter to x is shared with the object itself.
23:16:48 <elliott> But with some unsafeness (which you can wrap around), you can obviously tell it is.
23:16:51 <elliott> By storing a unique identifier with x.
23:16:58 <elliott> (There's other ways to do it too, but that's the most common._
23:17:08 <elliott> Basically it's reifying the graph of pointers from an object :P
23:17:21 <oerjan> elliott: bad idea: recurse on the length of how much you're allowed to match
23:17:23 <elliott> So obviously you can do left-recursion if you have it, because you can tell that
23:17:44 <elliott> Whereas if you don't do observable sharing, you just have to look at the right argument before you go recursing leftwards :P
23:17:46 <elliott> Or do both at once, or whatever.
23:18:18 <oerjan> that may have issues with empty strings matching non-terminals though
23:18:44 <elliott> Which is obviously just a+.
23:19:29 <oerjan> elliott: if when you match that second x, it is not allowed to match as long a string as the whole...
23:19:58 <elliott> oerjan: The idea is to look for an "a" somewhere in the string, then see if the string /before/ that a matches "x". If so, then it's a match. If not, then you look for the /next/ "a", and see if the string before that matches x.
23:20:10 <elliott> And so on, until there are no more "a"s in the string; then you know it doesn't parse.
23:20:45 <elliott> I think if you do that in parallel (deterministic parallelism, obviously) with seeing if there's an x at the start, and then going on to 'a', means that you can parse both left- and right- recursive grammars.
23:21:57 <elliott> And then oerjan stopped listening to me :P
23:22:07 <oerjan> i wasn't talking about your idea anyhow
23:22:22 <elliott> Well, I didn't understand what you were criticising.
23:22:59 <oerjan> i just thought of a bad idea for left-recursing without observable sharing
23:23:11 <elliott> what was the idea? just out of curiosity
23:23:23 <elliott> Gregor: By O(n), you meant in the length of the input string, right?
23:23:48 <itidus20> bad idea means "idea which is so good that merely calling it good would not express the magnitude of it's goodness"
23:23:50 <oerjan> to include a parameter for how long a string you're allowed to match, which must be decremented when recursing
23:24:23 <elliott> oerjan: what was the problem with that?
23:24:45 * elliott wonders if PEGs are monadic or just applicative...
23:25:26 <elliott> Gregor: Do PEGs have a|b = b|a? I really should know more about them :/
23:25:45 <oerjan> if one nonterminal can consist entirely of another, then it's not safe to decrement
23:26:10 <Gregor> elliott: Because if you implement that, it's more than O(n) :)
23:26:14 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:26:35 <elliott> Gregor: Are you suuuure? :(
23:27:05 <Gregor> Nothing comes to mind.
23:27:20 <elliott> Gregor: You could deterministically rearrange all alternatives before parsing :P
23:27:41 <Gregor> elliott: That doesn't help if it's properly ambiguous.
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23:31:24 <Gregor> elliott: If there exists a nonterminal in your grammar which can correctly parse two different lengths of input, but then only one will be selected as correct by a parser higher in the hierarchy, there's no way to guess which to choose.
23:33:03 <elliott> Gregor: Why are ambiguous grammars even accepted >_>
23:33:31 <elliott> "The fundamental difference between context-free grammars and parsing expression grammars is that the PEG's choice operator is ordered. If the first alternative succeeds, the second alternative is ignored. Thus ordered choice is not commutative, unlike unordered choice as in context-free grammars and regular expressions. Ordered choice is analogous to soft cut operators available in some logic programming languages."
23:33:38 <elliott> Can we just do all parsing with Prolog?
23:33:47 <oerjan> determining whether a grammar is ambiguous is undecidable
23:34:04 <elliott> oerjan: I knew that, it just didn't occur to me >_>
23:34:21 <elliott> "Compared to pure regular expressions (i.e. without back-references), PEGs are strictly more powerful, but require significantly more memory. For example, a regular expression inherently cannot find an arbitrary number of matched pairs of parentheses, because it is not recursive, but a PEG can. However, a PEG will require an amount of memory proportional to the length of the input, while a regular expression matcher will require only a constant a
23:34:40 <elliott> What's the memory usage of an LR(one) parser anyway
23:34:55 <elliott> I am so un-clued-up-on wrt parsers :|
23:35:30 <elliott> If you have a PEG parser that produces an infinite list, can you GC the memory if you keep taking the tail of that list?
23:35:35 <CakeProphet> elliott: I wonder how much memory a regex that parses matches parens uses.
23:35:39 <elliott> Can you match 'a'+ to an infinite list of as
23:35:45 <elliott> CakeProphet: No regex can do that.
23:35:50 <elliott> <elliott> Can you match 'a'+ to an infinite list of as
23:35:53 <oerjan> LR(one) parsers are deterministic PDAs
23:35:56 <elliott> Because you keep discarding the parses
23:36:02 <elliott> CakeProphet: Perl regexps are not regular expressions.
23:36:10 <elliott> They, therefore, have none of the parsing guarantees regexps do.
23:36:18 <elliott> CakeProphet: Well, the answer is bad.
23:36:22 <elliott> Perl's algorithm is very exponential.
23:36:23 <Gregor> elliott: Not in the conventional definition.
23:36:32 <oerjan> i don't think they can grow the stack more than no. of characters
23:36:35 <elliott> Gregor: Laziness isn't in the conventional definition :P
23:38:06 <elliott> I know that Frisby (Haskell PEG parser) is composable... "Unlike other parsers of PEG grammars, frisby need not be supplied with all possible rules up front, allowing composition of smaller parsers."
23:38:16 <elliott> But I don't wanna use it or look at it because NYEH PRIOR ART DOESN'T EXIST
23:38:44 <elliott> "Although memory consumption is linear in the size of the input, the constant factor is very large.
23:38:45 <elliott> frisby attempts to address both these concerns."
23:38:52 <elliott> Gregor: How large is the constant for Fythe btw :P
23:39:19 <elliott> "frisby attempts to be lazy in reading the results of parsers, parsers tend to work via sending out 'feeler' predicates to get an idea of what the rest of the file looks like before deciding what pass to take, frisby attempts to optimize these feeler predicates via extra lazyness such that they do not cause the actual computation of the results, but rather just compute enough to determine whether a predicate would have succeeded or not.
23:39:19 <elliott> (It is interesting to note that the memory efficiency of frisby depends vitally on being as lazy as possible, in contrast to traditional thoughts when it comes to memory consumption)"
23:39:21 <elliott> IT'S LIKE MAGIC..............
23:39:24 <Gregor> elliott: Small enough that the parser has never been more than a spec in any profile of Fythe.
23:39:35 <Gregor> The transform engine, on the other hand ....
23:39:58 <elliott> Gregor: I take it Fythe solves the "Unlike other parsers of PEG grammars, frisby need not be supplied with all possible rules up front, allowing composition of smaller parsers." part
23:40:22 <Gregor> I don't understand why that would be an issue for any PEG parser :P
23:40:51 <elliott> Gregor: "Traditionally, PEG parsers have suffered from two major flaws:
23:40:51 <elliott> A global table of all productions must be generated or written by hand, disallowing composable parsers implemented as libraries and in general requiring the use of a parser generator tool like pappy"
23:40:54 <elliott> It doesn't go into any more depth :P
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23:41:24 <Gregor> I have a global table of productions ... which is mutable ...
23:42:20 <elliott> Right, which is distinctly not composable :P
23:42:32 <CakeProphet> but does allow rules to not be given up front.
23:43:40 <Gregor> The parsers can be defined as functions.
23:45:06 <elliott> Gregor: Doesn't mean it's composable
23:45:38 <elliott> Sorry, I won't state facts in future if it upsets you
23:46:14 <CakeProphet> I get very upset when things don't compose. :(
23:50:35 <itidus20> <EXP> ::= <VAR> | (<EXP><EXP>) | (λ<VAR>.<EXP>)
23:50:48 <elliott> additive <- newRule $ multitive <> char '+' ->> additive ## uncurry (+) // multitive
23:50:48 <elliott> multitive <- newRule $ primary <> char '*' ->> multitive ## uncurry (*) // primary
23:50:48 <elliott> primary <- newRule $ char '(' ->> additive <<- char ')' // decimal
23:50:48 <elliott> decimal <- newRule $ many1 (oneOf ['0' .. '9']) ## read
23:51:10 <elliott> Gregor: So, what's the hot new thing in parsers these days that isn't PEG :P
23:53:01 <itidus20> <VAR> ::= 'a' | 'b' | 'c' | 'd' | 'e' | 'f' | 'g' | 'h' | 'i' | 'j' | 'k' | 'l' | 'm' | 'n' | 'o' | 'p' | 'q' | 'r' | 's' | 't' | 'u' | 'v' | 'w' | 'x' | 'y' | 'z'
23:53:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
23:53:57 <itidus20> <EXP> ::= <VAR> | '('<EXP><EXP>')' | '(' 'λ'<VAR>'.'<EXP>')'
23:55:13 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:56:28 <monqy> CakeProphet: but then it becomes ambiguous unless you fix it more
23:56:35 <elliott> monqy: WHAT'S THE HOT NEW THING IN PARSING
23:56:45 <monqy> elliott: i dunno ;_;
23:56:54 <itidus20> <EXP> ::= <VAR> | '('<EXP>')' | <EXP><EXP> | 'λ'<VAR>'.'<EXP>
23:57:09 <elliott> Gregor: Detail to me the furry strapon parser algorithm
23:57:52 <monqy> CakeProphet: yes!!
23:58:27 <monqy> consider the case of, say, yλx.xy
23:59:01 <monqy> or even just λx.xx I guess
23:59:46 <elliott> I should probably Read The Literature on parsers.