00:00:24 <monqy> those closest i got to Reading The Literature is learning about the old hat way of parsers and looking through the trifecta slides
00:00:35 <elliott> monqy: I want something that can do left-recursion :'(
00:01:28 <monqy> what's so strange about it
00:01:30 <itidus20> i based it on this: http://oi51.tinypic.com/drc86g.jpg
00:01:47 <itidus20> i don't actually know BNF particularly well
00:02:07 <elliott> there's no such thing as predefined objects
00:02:16 <elliott> CakeProphet: it is the cleanest way to express infix
00:02:25 <elliott> exp := number | exp '+' exp | exp '-' exp | ...
00:02:35 <elliott> although that misses precedence :P
00:02:47 <CakeProphet> though precedence can also be done with only left recursion
00:02:48 <monqy> CakeProphet: have you ever tried doing infix without recursion in one of the ways? it gets messy
00:02:53 <CakeProphet> instead of uh... left-right-recursion? I guess?
00:03:16 <CakeProphet> monqy: no I have not. But I have tried it with right recursion and it works quite well.
00:03:20 <itidus20> elliott: succ is a predefined constant
00:03:36 <monqy> CakeProphet: if by works quite well you mean is hideous, you may be correct
00:04:21 <itidus20> by constants, which is a fairly bad choice of words
00:04:41 <itidus20> i think he mainly means libraries of LC's
00:04:41 <monqy> itidus20: succ is not a predefined constant
00:04:47 <monqy> itidus20: what libraries
00:04:59 <monqy> it depends on your encoding of numbers
00:05:51 <itidus20> succ has to be defined before usage anyway
00:06:08 <monqy> what do you mean "defined"
00:07:03 <itidus20> maybe he should have called them predefined expressions
00:07:15 <monqy> maybe your book sucks and you shouldn't be reading it
00:07:38 <CakeProphet> predefined to me implies that it was defined outside of the language itself
00:07:39 <itidus20> the term constant seems a bit of a mes
00:07:46 <monqy> constant isn't a thing
00:08:13 <itidus20> CakeProphet: but what mechanism of the language can you use to define things?
00:08:25 <monqy> itidus20: there isn't one!!!
00:08:36 <itidus20> so then is succ defined outside of the language itself?
00:08:40 <monqy> itidus20: you define them in your head or on pencil and paper or with some sort of preprocessor
00:08:43 <lambdabot> "lambda lambda lambda lambda lambda lambda lambda lambda lambda lambda lamb...
00:08:49 <monqy> itidus20: and then inline the definitions
00:08:56 <elliott> itidus20: ((\succ. ...code using succ...) (...definition of succ...))
00:08:59 <elliott> that's the only way to name anything.
00:09:04 <monqy> or you can do that
00:09:05 <itidus20> monqy: yeah.. well notice i left constants out of my bnf :D
00:09:17 <itidus20> i just conveniently ignored that line
00:09:50 <elliott> CakeProphet: WHAT'S THE NEW THING IN PARSING monqy HELP
00:10:03 <itidus20> but i want to show that i didnt think it all up on my own... not that advanced yet
00:10:09 <CakeProphet> dude I don't know any more than you about parsing
00:10:20 <monqy> i don't knwlo; =______-; the parsec slides seemed intregueing but i forgot what they said
00:10:35 <CakeProphet> itidus20: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_encoding
00:10:37 <monqy> I dunno if there's anything more than slides
00:10:50 <elliott> CakeProphet: how will that help
00:11:14 <CakeProphet> elliott: it would show him ways to define data in lambda calculus?
00:11:19 <itidus20> All Church numerals are functions that take two parameters. Here f is the successor function and x represents 0. -- makes sense
00:11:52 <itidus20> a whole number then is a function of zero and a successor function. that isn't bad. :)
00:12:51 <monqy> all i remember about the trifecta slides is it did things to solve problems (and i remember vaguely some of these ways) and also mentioned other methods of parsing
00:12:56 <itidus20> so when it says λf.λx.x is zero.. it means it has no successor ?
00:13:15 <itidus20> it means it is not a successor of anything
00:14:30 <itidus20> to actually use church numerals do you have to apply zero to something?
00:14:45 <CakeProphet> but you don't "actually use" lambda calculus.
00:15:21 <itidus20> there is such a thing as impure/applied lambda calculus though as i understand it
00:15:34 <elliott> CakeProphet: well he only wants to learn LC to "apply it to his gamedev". so of course he isn't going to be able to understand LC as the pure system it is.
00:15:55 <itidus20> are there any other pure systems?
00:15:56 <CakeProphet> itidus20: even if you did apply something to a function, you would be applying a function and returning a function
00:16:03 <itidus20> is LC an instance of a pure system?
00:16:12 <elliott> note to self never say anything iti will overanalyse it
00:16:50 <itidus20> everything can be abstracted :D
00:17:17 <itidus20> it is an instance of a pure system
00:17:18 <elliott> you do _not_ have enough knowledge to think about things like LC on a metalevel before you even understand the base level of plainly understanding it
00:17:25 <monqy> lc is a thing. an instance of a thing. thing.
00:17:27 <elliott> if you keep doing things like that you will _never_ learn it.
00:18:17 <itidus20> its a form of trolling of mine. but thats enough of it i dont want to stir trouble
00:18:33 <elliott> saying dumb things isn't trolling.
00:19:17 <monqy> itidus20: and for what and in what ways do you want to use the lambda calculus? surely you have some applications in mind with such grave misconception of it
00:19:22 <itidus20> i have considered that sitting down is an instance of human actions
00:19:30 <monqy> itidus20: if i tell you you're wrong, will you stop being wrong?
00:20:08 <itidus20> no im not .. i just need to stop
00:20:14 <itidus20> and figure out why im being a pain
00:20:38 <CakeProphet> just learn the basics before you go off on misguided tangents.
00:20:47 <CakeProphet> that's pretty much all that you're doing wrong.
00:20:59 <itidus20> i got my first irc ban last night... it was kind of uncomfortable
00:21:08 <monqy> I must have missed it
00:21:16 <itidus20> not in this channel, or even this server
00:21:58 <itidus20> well this guy had been warning me for a while.. i think he just had enough
00:22:11 <monqy> warning you? for generally acting like yourself?
00:22:14 <itidus20> partially i don't even use xna.. i just rant as if i was in here
00:22:37 <elliott> why are you in #xna if you don't use xna
00:22:37 <itidus20> he said the other day allowances can be made for people who at least sometimes talk about xna or use it
00:22:54 <itidus20> i considered using it once upon a time years ago
00:23:17 <elliott> so how many channels do you rant in :P
00:23:39 <itidus20> i am thinking about bringing a new artform out of gaming
00:24:20 <CakeProphet> itidus20: again, you should probably learn the basics of game design before you go making an artform out of it.
00:24:37 <elliott> itidus20: do you rant in all of them
00:24:39 <monqy> what are the basics of game design
00:24:43 <elliott> i just assumed we were special.
00:25:08 <CakeProphet> monqy: I don't think there's really a formal theory to it... it's just like... experience.
00:25:25 <itidus20> this is the only channel like it
00:25:40 <elliott> but you give those other channels your special rants :'(
00:25:59 <CakeProphet> the formal aspect would be the same as in the rest of CS. So game design is essentially just a specific subset of learning how to design programs.
00:26:10 <monqy> game design has nothing to do with cs
00:26:15 <itidus20> well in #xna.. i keep reacting to offtopic topics
00:26:30 <monqy> CakeProphet: i said nothing to do
00:26:31 <elliott> game developers are just bad programmers
00:26:45 <monqy> elliott: the point was the separation between design and programming
00:27:01 <elliott> monqy: well all SE is applied CS.
00:27:24 <itidus20> i dont rant that much honestly
00:27:26 <monqy> game design would also apply to non-electronic games, and the such
00:27:46 <itidus20> some conclusions i have reached is that the word game does not imply entertainment
00:28:04 <itidus20> sorry cake.. didn't mean to be the fly in your soup
00:28:33 <Sgeo> My professor is assuming that my classmate's problem is due to a .txt extension, despite his saying (and being right) that it isn't
00:28:35 <itidus20> i am using lazy evaluation style of thinking
00:28:46 <elliott> do you mean you're just being lazy
00:29:11 <itidus20> i only JUST NOW concluded that the word game does not imply entertainment
00:29:21 <itidus20> but i had gathered the necessary proofs over the last month or so
00:29:22 <CakeProphet> you're like me from years ago on this channel. stop that.
00:29:27 <monqy> itidus20: do you know what lazy evaluation is
00:29:35 <aspect> is that why there are so many bad games?
00:30:10 <elliott> CakeProphet: i agree w/ comparison
00:30:18 <CakeProphet> a game is essentially an entertaining competition. What makes a game fun is subjective and different people find different kinds of games fun.
00:30:35 <itidus20> monqy: i think it means only calculate the answers to questions you need the answers to
00:30:40 <elliott> games present challenges sure
00:30:43 <CakeProphet> elliott: well, not necessarily against other players
00:30:46 <elliott> but competition is the wrong word
00:30:52 <elliott> arguing over definitions of words is stupid anyway
00:30:55 <CakeProphet> you can be competing against the game rules. there is some kind of objective at least.
00:30:59 <elliott> it doesn't matter if something is a game or a toy or whatever
00:31:06 <elliott> CakeProphet: some games have no objective, literally no reward
00:31:15 <elliott> for instance, consider minecraft creative
00:31:16 <itidus20> ill reword that: i think it means only calculate the answers to questions you need the answers to when you need them
00:31:22 <elliott> today's minecraft has obstacles and shit
00:31:27 <elliott> but creative has literally no obstacle or objective
00:31:31 <elliott> and it's still undeniably a game
00:31:37 <elliott> or if you say it isn't a game, then every player of it would disagree
00:31:47 <itidus20> i still don't see how my definition differs from non-lazy evaluation.
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00:31:51 <quintopia> it is not a game in the mathematical sense
00:32:05 <monqy> good words for good people
00:32:12 <CakeProphet> games are not games in the mathematical sense, are they?
00:32:17 <itidus20> monqy, cake: What I seem to do is an act of topic-dropping.
00:32:45 <monqy> itidus20: if you're wrong about something enough, maybe someone will pick up the topic and correct you?
00:32:52 <itidus20> Similar to name-dropping, I use an inappropriate phrase as a synonym for another phrase.
00:33:03 <elliott> monqy: usually no since it's too painful
00:33:22 <monqy> itidus20: oh. that's horrible.
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00:34:16 <CakeProphet> an itidus20 is an instance of an OO mind virus.
00:34:27 <elliott> monqy: help, parser, help, help
00:34:30 <quintopia> CakeProphet: CGoL is certainly not a game in the mathematical sense
00:35:46 <itidus20> the appropriate phrase in place of "<itidus20> i am using lazy evaluation style of thinking" would have been "What I mean is I realized it just now because of the topic."
00:36:06 <itidus20> needlessly mentioning lazy evaluation when it is not relevant
00:36:29 <CakeProphet> elliott: hopefully the difference between my former self and itidus20 is that I got around to learning all (well, most) of the things I didn't understand.
00:36:35 <pikhq_> do foo(n) as (n --> 0);
00:36:41 <elliott> CakeProphet: how old were you in like two thousand and seven again
00:37:04 <itidus20> my mind viruses are partially built up by other people.
00:37:14 <elliott> CakeProphet: another difference: you wre fourteen years younger
00:37:29 <itidus20> people who are happier if i am downtrodden and confused, taking steps to keep me down
00:38:01 <itidus20> it's human nature. people are often setting it as their goal to cause harm.
00:38:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
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00:39:13 <itidus20> humans cope because we manage to chill out in spite of our harmful intent
00:40:04 <itidus20> having said all that, i am taking lots of steps at formal introspection
00:40:07 <elliott> what made you convince yourself that that wasn't projecting, at least partially?
00:40:42 <itidus20> i know it is partially my fault.
00:41:04 <elliott> was just asking a question
00:42:06 <itidus20> people take advantage of my defence mechanisms. i am responsible for my defence mechanisms. they are responsible for how they react to me.
00:42:24 <monqy> take advantage of?
00:43:05 <itidus20> i'm not healthy in mind, body, social life, or money.
00:43:13 <CakeProphet> help Freudian armchair psycho-babble what do?
00:43:22 <CakeProphet> oh wait I have monqy help back in exchange for sour cereal.
00:43:30 <itidus20> CakeProphet: taking notes of how i am feeling at various times
00:44:06 <monqy> very introspective
00:44:27 <itidus20> trying to analyze the actual causes of feelings i don't want to feel
00:45:22 <monqy> do the causes point to yourself is that where this is going
00:45:36 <monqy> or do they point to other people is that where this is going
00:46:12 <itidus20> well, other people can do what they like.. its my problem if i overreact
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00:47:04 <monqy> lots of gecho revisions recently
00:47:34 <itidus20> basically, if something i remember upsets me.. like for example.. if i remember such and such is gonna happen
00:47:47 <monqy> where by gecho I mean the gecho page. these revisions are saddening.
00:47:56 <monqy> gecho is saddening
00:47:57 <itidus20> im trying to take note of which things are actually causing such upset
00:48:21 <itidus20> monqy: yeah thats the idea.. no need to get depressed by gecho
00:48:32 <monqy> has your note taking worked
00:49:12 <itidus20> monqy: well, theres these feelings of derealization and depersonalization and psychosis which i seem to enter into at times
00:49:48 <itidus20> those are the main uhmm vector of attack which is bothering me recently
00:50:35 <itidus20> another thing is to be realistic about things.
00:51:03 <monqy> what does that mean
00:51:55 <CakeProphet> wow this topic is really appropriate right now.
00:52:06 <itidus20> i have convinced myself that my brother isn't psychotic. he's just an asshole quite often.
00:52:26 <monqy> that must be a relief
00:52:52 <Gregor> Note that he just said he convinced himself of that, not that it's true.
00:53:10 <CakeProphet> I am convinced that Gregor is actually Roger G.
00:53:31 <Gregor> I am convinced that Scotland is where Santa Claus is from.
00:53:35 <CakeProphet> and his first name propaganda is a terrible lie that he has told everyone including the government.
00:53:50 <monqy> his last name is propaganda lies too
00:54:40 <CakeProphet> Gregor is also lying to himself about his name.
00:55:28 <CakeProphet> man sometimes regex substition on IRC gets tricky.
00:55:37 <monqy> I don't bother with regex
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00:55:45 <monqy> I like it better my way
00:56:12 <itidus20> Gregor: well he is an angry violent manipulative drunk who will take others things without a thought, but that doesn't necessarily mean psychotic
00:57:03 <monqy> if thing/other thing is insufficient I do a "where by ... i mean ..."
00:57:33 <monqy> I also sometimes use thing/other thing to add meaning rather than replace maybe? I forget if I do this.
01:01:49 <CakeProphet> perl regex substition is the only sane way to replace typos and misinformation.
01:02:13 <monqy> I tend not to care about typos
01:04:43 -!- Gregor has changed nick to NotRogerGYouGuys.
01:04:52 <elliott> "...does it count as pedophilia if it's animals" --a friend
01:04:58 <CakeProphet> s/<monqy>(.*?)/$1, also I am a really bad/
01:05:16 <CakeProphet> s/<monqy>(.*?)/$1, also I am a really bad/g
01:09:15 <CakeProphet> because it is truly the best site I've seen.
01:11:35 <elliott> you posted it originally right
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01:12:06 <monqy> by searching for sour cereal
01:12:13 <CakeProphet> after I mentioned it being possibly a good idea.
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01:12:35 <elliott> nooo its privately registered whois
01:13:18 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:00:54:46: <CakeProphet> /Gregor/Roger G./
01:13:42 <HackEgo> 2011-02-09.txt:14:41:06: <elliott> Deewiant: Personally, I think that "ABCD"4) only pops from the fingerprint stack if ABCD is the most recently loadedfingerprint.
01:13:44 <CakeProphet> part of becoming an adult is spending your money irresponsibly.
01:13:59 <elliott> `logurl 2011-02-09.txt:14:
01:14:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-02-09
01:14:05 <CakeProphet> on things like candy and alcohol and wimminz
01:14:15 <itidus20> roger: well psychopath's are like shannon's maxim.. the key is simply knowing yes or no if they are
01:14:34 <itidus20> it can be virtually impossible to know without this key piece of info
01:14:49 <itidus20> thats the truth. i have read up on it
01:15:51 -!- NotRogerGYouGuys has changed nick to Gregor.
01:16:19 <itidus20> yes. once a psychopath is known to be a psychopath, that is all you need to know to know.. and without this knowledge you can almost not know
01:16:47 <itidus20> it is like trying to use a captcha to catch a bot
01:17:27 <itidus20> in accordance with shannon's maxim, it is their most prized possession
01:18:20 <itidus20> so several moral dilemmas are raised. is a person evil just by being a psychopath?
01:18:35 <itidus20> and once caught there is no treatment, only to cycle them between prison and mental hospital
01:22:19 <itidus20> basically ok, it's like trying to determine what is on a display by scanning the video memory instead of looking at the display with a camera
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01:26:12 <elliott> Wow, String has really bad overhead.
01:26:22 <elliott> Gregor: Ask me what String's overhead is in Haskell.
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01:27:21 <elliott> Gregor: Do it, it will amuse you.
01:28:53 <elliott> monqy: tell Gregor he is bad.
01:29:43 <Gregor> I was going to guess fifteen bytes one bit per character.
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01:29:56 <elliott> Gregor: It takes 5n words per codepoint, apparently :P
01:30:12 <Jafet> You asked for overhead
01:30:14 <elliott> It uses utf-thirtytwo always
01:30:26 <elliott> It's not thirty-nine bytes though.
01:31:02 <Jafet> Most code points use one byte,
01:31:38 <pikhq_> Gregor: If you go by frequency of usage, perhaps.
01:32:04 <pikhq_> Context-dependent, but generally true in non-plain text.
01:33:52 <elliott> I wonder if there's a known-nicer string representation than ropes...
01:34:12 <elliott> (Or, well, "finger tree of small vectors of codepoints" if you want to be precise.)
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01:38:35 <HackEgo> 2011-01-04.txt:19:12:22: <j-invariant> elliott: I don't get that godel quote
01:38:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastelog: not found
01:39:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25506
01:40:28 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2007-07-23
01:40:35 <elliott> quintopia: i made it : ): ))
01:40:38 <HackEgo> 2005-03-24.txt:03:34:00: -!- lament has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
01:40:43 <HackEgo> 2005-09-15.txt:04:50:58: <lament> (actually, i'm not sure about this. hrm)
01:41:43 <quintopia> `run ln -s /hackenv/bin/pastelogs /hackenv/bin/pastelog
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01:42:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16730
01:43:03 <HackEgo> 2011-03-07.txt:18:41:51: <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo doesn't, and was coming dangerously close to taking relationship advice from him.
01:43:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13037
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01:57:00 <itidus20> so is "\x x" church numeral 0?
01:57:06 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:57:26 <itidus20> so is "\f \x x" church numeral 0?
01:58:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:58:36 <itidus20> is "\f \x x" like "(λf.(λx.(x)))"
01:59:41 <elliott> <quintopia> `run ln -s /hackenv/bin/pastelogs /hackenv/bin/pastelog
01:59:42 <monqy> why do you have so many parentheses
01:59:48 <monqy> why do you have parentheses around the x
02:00:05 <itidus20> because i don't want to make mistakes
02:00:13 <pikhq_> Because he's being strange and not doing sane notation.
02:00:19 <monqy> you're more likely to make mistakes if you make a huge mess of parens like that
02:00:41 <pikhq_> Or \f->\x->x if you want the currying explicit.
02:00:56 <monqy> I tend to use more spaces
02:01:01 <pikhq_> Or \f.\x.x if you want it to *just* be all-ASCII standard lambda calculus notation.
02:01:33 <monqy> \fx.x if I'm doing it like that
02:02:02 <pikhq_> I'm too used to names of variable length. ;)
02:03:16 <itidus20> Ichi \fx->f x, Ni \fx->f(f x), San \fx->f(f(f x)), Yon \fx->f(f(f(f x))), Go \fx->f(f(f(f(f x))))
02:04:10 <itidus20> One, Eck, Ichi \fx->f x, Two, Dou, Ni \fx->f(f x), Three, Teen, San \fx->f(f(f x)), Four, Chaar, Yon \fx->f(f(f(f x))), Five, Paanch, Go \fx->f(f(f(f(f x))))
02:05:04 <monqy> itidus20: it's strange of you to omit spaces in the formal parameters thingy but leave them in in the application
02:05:08 <pikhq_> 「12345」か、「一二三四五」か良いかもしらない。でも「Ichi Ni San Yon Go」がとても変だ。
02:05:21 <monqy> itidus20: and also leave them out in other applications
02:05:50 <itidus20> Is there anything not strange about what i am doing though?
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02:06:54 <calamari> the other day someone thought a lang had all instructions executing at once (turned out it wasn't), but it got me thinking, what if all instructions had a queue on the data.. for example *addr1=*addr2+*addr3. if addr2 or addr3 are changed, then that would execute, changing addr1, then anything that relied on addr1 would execute, etc. Is there an esolang like that?
02:07:38 <Jafet> Dataflow languages aren't esoteric
02:07:47 <Jafet> Neither are constraint logic ones
02:08:12 <itidus20> I am just getting used to the lego blocks of lambda calculus
02:08:15 <Sgeo_> It's certainly possible to make an esoteric dataflow language
02:08:18 <CakeProphet> I mean esoteric languages aren't even esoteric.
02:08:33 <pikhq_> Nor are spreadsheets esoteric.
02:08:35 <itidus20> see monqy, that was what i call a topic-dropping.. the unnecessary use of "lego blocks" to mean "components" or "elements"
02:08:53 <Sgeo_> what's a good non-esoteric dataflow language
02:08:59 <monqy> itidus20: now im dead inside :(
02:09:08 <Sgeo_> why am i trying to talk like monqy
02:09:30 <Sgeo_> with the whole no capitalization thing
02:09:30 <itidus20> learning to type logically also teaches how to think logically
02:09:38 <Jafet> You admire his intellect?
02:09:40 <calamari> cool, so I discovered something that they came up with in 1966 according to wikipedia :)
02:09:42 <monqy> sometimes I do caps; I'm rather inconsistent about it.
02:09:57 <pikhq_> calamari: Well, topological sorting spreadsheets are a *bit* newer.
02:10:12 <itidus20> once you type i as i you're basically a no-caps'er
02:10:24 <pikhq_> Still, not exactly new.
02:10:41 <monqy> spreadsheet of spreadsheets
02:10:44 <Sgeo_> What not new new thing did calamari do?
02:11:02 <itidus20> Sgeo_: you can type faster without caps..
02:11:12 <Sgeo_> But I don't like to type without caps.
02:11:16 <itidus20> you can type faster still without punctuation
02:11:28 <monqy> Typing with caps and punctuation doesn't slow me down very much at all.
02:11:37 <itidus20> but in either case i like punctuation
02:11:43 <monqy> what slows me down is bothering to correct ytpeoes
02:11:44 <Sgeo_> itidus20, not if your finger memory always reaches for the Shift and as such, you have to think about not doing it.
02:11:47 <CakeProphet> I'm too busy busting caps in niggas and hoes to type caps.
02:11:53 <itidus20> Sgeo_: yeah i just noticed that
02:12:19 <monqy> Shoiudl I stop bothering to correct my types? What will ahpepn?
02:12:22 <Sgeo_> Off to read some Discworld and eat
02:12:27 <itidus20> punctuation probably doesn't help much
02:12:39 <Sgeo_> monqy, ugh, I hvae done that sort of thing before, really speeds things up att the expesne of typoes.
02:12:47 <calamari> I'm thinking about it, and I'm not sure a spreadsheet is exactly the same
02:12:54 <monqy> sometimes I bother, sometimes I don't!!!
02:13:01 <monqy> sometimes I also make more typoes than others.
02:13:18 <CakeProphet> higher order spreadsheets are spreadsheets of functions that take a spreadsheet input and a spreadsheet output
02:14:22 <Jafet> I think you could make an esolang out of higher dimensional spreadsheets
02:14:32 <Jafet> And higher order, of course
02:17:52 <calamari> thanks for letting me know the name of what I discovered... now I won't have to implement it :)
02:19:50 <Jafet> I bet if someone here implemented an esolang based on spreadsheets, their endeavour to make it turing complete will make it superior to other real spreadsheets
02:20:20 <calamari> most spreadsheets have some kind of language you can embed behind it
02:21:00 <CakeProphet> I don't believe that was new information for anyone.
02:21:36 <CakeProphet> I once tried to write a brainfuck interpreter in Excel
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02:22:07 <itidus20> <VARS> ::= <VAR> | <VARS><VAR>; <EXPR> ::= "\"<VARS> | <EXPR> "->" <EXPR> | <VAR>; ... is this faulty?
02:22:40 <itidus20> its a nice way to express ideas without using english
02:23:02 <elliott> \ and -> are part of same rule
02:23:41 <itidus20> <VARS> ::= <VAR> | <VARS><VAR>; <EXPR> ::= "\"<VARS> "->" <EXPR> | <VAR>; ... is this better?
02:25:29 <itidus20> i am wondering to myself and now typing it if the last one can be vars
02:26:24 <CakeProphet> well function application would be <EXPR><EXPR> ignoring insignificant whitespace.
02:26:28 <itidus20> trying to avoid \x->xxyzx not sure if i need to though
02:27:09 <CakeProphet> well, in Haskell it's a bit more complicated than that.
02:27:29 <elliott> itidus20: your expr has no application
02:28:25 <itidus20> hmm.. so is "\x->" the same as "λx."
02:28:41 <CakeProphet> elliott: ...yes I understand they are the same
02:29:00 <itidus20> or is -> used in both application and lambdaing
02:29:15 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
02:29:26 <elliott> CakeProphet: not helpiiiing
02:29:52 <itidus20> uhmm ok so function application in haskell is just (x y) ?
02:30:26 <monqy> instead of concrete syntax
02:30:52 <elliott> CakeProphet: you are _really_ not helping iti. please stop.
02:30:59 <itidus20> if i just keep stareing at syntaxes enough it is sure to just make sense
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02:31:01 <monqy> I'm actually surprised how much fuss you guys are making over concrete syntax
02:31:23 <CakeProphet> monqy: /me has not been making any sort of fuss about concrete syntax.
02:31:45 <itidus20> i am going on the theory that if you know the grammar of a language you should be able to use it at least in a trivial manner
02:32:08 <itidus20> its not like it has many rules
02:32:30 <Jafet> Hey, it works for python.
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02:32:41 <Jafet> And any other language that is C in disguise
02:33:21 <elliott> itidus20: you are acting like you are on the same level as the people trying to teach you - forming your own different path and disagreeing. until you accept that you must first be a _learner_, you will never learn.
02:33:33 <Jafet> C with reference counting.
02:33:42 <itidus20> hmm now heres how wirth would say it
02:35:17 <monqy> in the wrong direction
02:35:36 <elliott> remember itidus20 what i said about trying to form your own path?
02:35:58 <itidus20> lao tse once say, the sage follows the well worn path
02:46:00 <itidus20> about lao tse could be a false memory
02:46:22 <itidus20> about how wirth would do a functional language, i think it would be beyond my imagination
02:47:00 <itidus20> algol-w, pascal, modula, oberon
02:47:12 <itidus20> i only know the names of his works really
02:48:08 <CakeProphet> if I beat you with this stick will learn more stuff?
02:48:36 <itidus20> cut and paste from some googling "I also remember bursting out laughing when the Modula-2 compiler warned correctly that I had written an infinite loop! Ooops."
02:50:44 <CakeProphet> > let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs
02:50:45 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946...
02:51:09 <itidus20> http://web.archive.org/web/20100331222736/http://www.cs.inf.ethz.ch/~wirth/Articles/GoodIdeas_origFig.pdf
02:52:51 <itidus20> "To postulate a state-less model of computation on top of a machinery whose most eminent characteristic is state, seems to be an odd idea, to say the least." :P
02:55:00 <elliott> yeah youve disproved the lambda calculus with a quote and a smiley good thing you never had to learn it
02:55:19 <itidus20> elliott: alright relax. im not giving up on it
02:55:31 <Lymee> > let fibs = 1 : 2 : zipWith (*) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs
02:55:31 <lambdabot> [1,2,2,4,8,32,256,8192,2097152,17179869184,36028797018963968,61897001964269...
02:55:44 <itidus20> its just i was looking for wirth's take on it.. its natural he is biased towards his imperative languages
02:56:21 <itidus20> you have shown me that it can be used for building OS's
02:56:52 <itidus20> i am used to the quotes of old men being bitter
02:57:30 <pikhq_> There's a pretty obvious issue with that quote.
02:57:55 <itidus20> the link was from lambda the ultimate anyway ironically
02:57:56 <pikhq_> Our machines are designed for ease of dealing with physical reality.
02:58:05 <pikhq_> Our code has no such concerns.
02:58:14 <itidus20> http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1773
02:58:14 <pikhq_> (modulo obvious limits)
02:58:38 <CakeProphet> I'm not entirely sure that's how modulo works pikhq_ :P
02:59:06 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Sadly, our code is guaranteed to halt.
02:59:47 <pikhq_> At a minimum, it will go with the rest of the universe.
03:00:02 <CakeProphet> if only lived in a magical world of mathematical thought.
03:01:39 <itidus20> elliott: well i will never be able to learn it(LC) through the method of acquiring prerequisite knowledges.. so i am analyzing it's component's
03:02:02 <monqy> itidus20: what are its components
03:02:13 <monqy> itidus20: you may have a bad idea of what they are
03:02:59 <itidus20> it has just occured to me that i still don't have a good idea of what a variable is
03:03:38 <CakeProphet> in lambda calculus variables function parameters.
03:03:51 <monqy> they are also all functions
03:03:53 <monqy> everything is a function
03:04:07 <itidus20> is "λx." a complete lambda expression?
03:04:22 <pikhq_> The function has to map to *something*.
03:05:38 <itidus20> and.. "λx." is basically equally incomplete as: "λa.", "λb.", "λc.", "λd.", ... etc.. and they each express the same thing in isolation right?
03:06:00 <monqy> they don't express anything. they're nonsense.
03:06:17 <itidus20> i mean like if i wrote "λp." on a piece of paper and showed it to someone it would mean just as much as "λr."
03:06:34 <monqy> at what are you getting
03:06:46 <pikhq_> itidus20: Yes, but it would also mean just as much as ASDGJIFujyh0-qwe4itgo0xcfnvjbhklsdau5689234iq8ibvgo0sdujt89ioweausjfgioxzfhyuiqejhiopfgjhsar89pitpjq;
03:06:50 <itidus20> and yet this is a component of LC .. and i am analyzing it
03:06:54 <pikhq_> It's a fucking syntax error.
03:07:05 <monqy> it isnot a component of the lambda calculus; it's a syntax error.
03:07:05 <CakeProphet> itidus20: yes the name of the variable doesn't matter as long as it's unique
03:07:10 <itidus20> its 1 character short of being a complete LC expression
03:07:22 <monqy> itidus20: things do not work like that
03:07:27 <monqy> itidus20: you are doing it wrong
03:07:36 <Lymee> "λp." means "take p and... 404 file not found"
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03:08:16 <pikhq_> itidus20: When you write such "expressions" you are granting permission to launch demons from your nose, now stop it. ;)
03:08:21 <Gregor> `fetch http://sprunge.us/OViK
03:08:22 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 03:08:22 URL:http://sprunge.us/OViK [7576] -> "OViK" [1]
03:08:28 <Gregor> `run sh OViK ; rm OViK
03:08:32 <HackEgo> x - created lock directory _sh21266. \ x - extracting bin/unlearn (text) \ x - extracting bin/forget (text) \ x - extracting bin/learnt (text) \ x - extracting bin/learn (text) \ x - removed lock directory _sh21266.
03:08:38 <itidus20> i am showing you a piece of the space with which i am exploring LC syntax.. and its nasty!
03:08:40 <Gregor> `learn elliott Ignore this loser.
03:08:47 <HackEgo> elliott = Ignore this loser.
03:09:09 <Lymee> `learn Lymee *hugs*
03:10:04 <pikhq_> Does GNU shar *actually test* for *GNU* md5sum?
03:10:10 <pikhq_> Not a functioning one, but *GNU*.
03:10:37 <Gregor> shar: Easily the best.
03:10:49 <Gregor> monqy: That ... could be a problem ...
03:11:12 <pikhq_> Gregor: Kinda an elegant archive format, but jebus GNU stuff is feces.
03:11:17 <elliott> Gregor: this is a bad learndb i shall improve
03:11:18 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
03:11:31 <Gregor> elliott: THEN DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SO
03:11:49 <itidus20> lambda seems to be a modification of a symbol.. just as 'A' is a capitalization of 'a', and 'ga' in japanese is a change to 'ka', so "λx." is related directly to "x"
03:11:51 <Lymee> `export PATH=/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/hackenv/bin
03:11:52 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: export: not found
03:11:58 <Lymee> `run export PATH=/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/hackenv/bin
03:12:14 <monqy> itidus20: you're not thinking right
03:12:16 <itidus20> "λx." introduces the symbol "x"
03:14:02 <itidus20> "λx." says something like.. in the following expression, "x" is a bound variable.
03:14:32 <monqy> "λx." isn't a complete thought
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03:15:42 <monqy> maybe you should try learning the lambda calculus before you do this nonsense with it
03:16:01 <monqy> or have you given up on that
03:16:07 <itidus20> perhaps i should say "(λx.())"
03:16:15 <monqy> you're making it worse
03:16:33 <Lymee> `wiki lambda calculus
03:16:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiki: not found
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03:17:23 <Lymee> Get rid of itidus20
03:17:42 <itidus20> ok i should leave until i can play reasonably though
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03:18:47 <Patashu> what are your guys' minesweeper records
03:19:08 <Jafet> I made a script to reroll until I could get it on the first click
03:20:06 <Patashu> I just opened it up and got 227 seconds on expert. was wondering if that was decent
03:21:17 <Jafet> Microsoft has made a few different versions... the recent ones play in the background and prevent you from losing if the position is ambiguous
03:22:18 <Patashu> yeah, I'm using a verson that prevents you from needing luck
03:27:13 <HackEgo> elliott = Ignore this loser.
03:27:40 <monqy> oh i misread something up there
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03:33:02 <elliott> coool simonrc knows edwin brady
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03:37:10 <zzo38> Do you have idea if I could make up some doppelganger's prestige class for Dungeons & Dragons game? I should also probably write a fix for the Metamind class. But I think I did fix the Illithid Savant class now.
03:37:57 <zzo38> I don't remember very well. Was copumpkin wrote the which/left/right class for me or someone else?
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03:40:58 <itidus20> ok, is λx.y a valid lambda calculus expression?
03:41:47 <monqy> depends on what you mean by valid
03:42:16 <elliott> itidus20: you're still thinking about lc in terms of its concrete syntax, i see
03:44:08 <itidus20> hmmm. now if λx.y is applied to something, would it become "y"?
03:44:13 <elliott> Gregor: How much convincing do you need to add new regexp-ish handlers to egobot
03:44:28 <elliott> specifically, the _application_ would become y.
03:44:43 <itidus20> perhaps i should instantiate a something
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03:45:25 <elliott> Gregor: For a nicer learndb system :P
03:45:55 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?: not found
03:46:39 <elliott> Gregor: How can one view a certain file on hackego served as text/html :P
03:46:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
03:47:04 <elliott> Gregor: That's as text/plain
03:47:22 <Gregor> Oh ... I see what you ... want ... but not why :P
03:47:27 <Gregor> "You can't" is the simple answer :P
03:47:30 <elliott> Gregor: Hyperlinked learndb wiki :D
03:47:36 <elliott> I just have to generate it after every learndb mutation.
03:48:54 <itidus20> (λx.y) z becomes y and (λx.x) z becomes z, is this so far so good?
03:50:28 <Gregor> elliott: Seems to me like this is when hackiki and hackbot should be merged :P
03:50:51 <elliott> Gregor: Well, no, it'd not be like hackiki. But I could write it as a hackiki page.
03:50:58 <elliott> Can any hackiki read from HackEgo?
03:52:38 <Gregor> Aaaaaaaaaand ... not tonight :P
03:53:55 <elliott> Gregor: How can I make HackEgo send multiple lines X-D
03:54:11 <elliott> I need to send each definition of a word on a separate line or it won't fit multiple definitions at all >__>
03:54:59 <Gregor> One-in-one-out is a pretty strict rule.
03:55:12 <zzo38> Is it ever going to fix that QUIT messages should be copied into the channel logs?
03:55:14 <elliott> Maaaan, HackEgo is SO unsuitable for a learndb.
03:55:43 <pikhq> Clearly we need another bot.
03:56:00 <Gregor> zzo38: Probably. Months/years from now when I grab a moment to do it.
03:56:05 <pikhq> fungot, EgoBot, glogbot HackEgo? Definitely not enough.
03:56:06 <fungot> pikhq: it saves valuable internet bandwidth even if i'd get an " indefinite" number of arguments ( 1 for 0) i need to
03:56:34 <zzo38> I wrote an IRC bot program once.
03:58:12 <zzo38> It is currently connected to Freenode.
03:58:38 * CakeProphet finishes his Data Structures project and turned it in with exactly 2 minutes to spare.
03:58:51 <zzo38> elliott: Yes, well, sort of.
03:59:13 <zzo38> It is named "PocketMonsterIRC" you can command it to join channels
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04:01:38 <zzo38> See? That is how it works.
04:02:55 <itidus20> So if I put x y that is an application, but it cannot be applied until something like (λx.(x y)) λa.b which would become (λa.b) y and then finally b
04:03:20 <elliott> that is a correct reduction
04:03:59 <itidus20> CakeProphet: ah so you mean the terminology is a bit wonky
04:04:23 <CakeProphet> the expression that a function returns is not evaluated until the function itself is applied.
04:04:39 <elliott> Gregor: I have the perfect learndb ;___;
04:04:55 <zzo38> I set up a macro to send command to PocketMonsterIRC, in my IRC client. It is possible to do that
04:05:04 <itidus20> now.. if i was to (λx.(x y)) a then that would become a y right?
04:05:07 -!- Jafet has joined.
04:05:16 <zzo38> So you can set up a macro too if you want to send commands, including your own program if you want to make IRC bot, to do that
04:05:30 <CakeProphet> itidus20: yes, but y should be defined somewhere.
04:05:44 <elliott> My nick column is only like
04:05:48 <elliott> At the edge of my screen now
04:05:57 <CakeProphet> itidus20: the thing to remember is that a, x, and y are all functions.
04:07:24 -!- elliott has changed nick to shfkhsdlsjdflsah.
04:07:27 <itidus20> CakeProphet: well would i just define y by nesting it in something else?
04:07:34 -!- shfkhsdlsjdflsah has changed nick to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
04:07:41 -!- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX has changed nick to elliott.
04:07:56 <CakeProphet> you define y through as a lambda parameter, yes.
04:08:39 <itidus20> so i would just say a y becomes λa.(a y) b and then it would become a b
04:08:53 <oklopol> "<Patashu> I just opened it up and got 227 seconds on expert. was wondering if that was decent" <<< my record is about 180 on this computer, haven't played a lot yet. i usually play normal since you can only win every 8th or so expert, which is frustrating
04:09:01 <elliott> oklopol: teach itidus20 lambda calculus
04:09:23 <itidus20> so i would just say a y becomes λy.(a y) b and then it would become a b
04:09:24 <oklopol> my leftie record is something like 227
04:09:31 <Patashu> oklopol: download Mines-Perfect and set it to 'Hint' mode. whenever you have to be lucky hint gives you hints until you don't have to be anymore
04:09:50 <CakeProphet> itidus20: but then a is not defined in any of that.
04:10:12 <oklopol> oh also i don't use flags usually, it's more fun that way, but way slower
04:10:25 <CakeProphet> itidus20: also do you understand how multiparameter functions work?
04:10:39 <elliott> jesus christ are you trying to complicate it for itidus20
04:10:47 <CakeProphet> no I am showing him how you would do such a thing.
04:10:47 <elliott> he doesn't even know the basics stop bringing up things for no reason
04:11:08 <elliott> yes "now that you have failed to learn the basics of the lambda calculus let me tutor you in its more advanced usage"
04:11:13 <Patashu> why are we teaching itidus20 lambda calculus?
04:11:19 <CakeProphet> ...he just demonstrated that he has an idea of the basics.
04:11:21 <oklopol> itidus20: first things first, here's how to simulate oop in lc
04:12:00 <itidus20> so guys.. whats another way i can write λx.(a y)? is there any?
04:12:32 <itidus20> i just realized it when i hit enter
04:12:49 <elliott> oklopol: im waiting for you to teach itidus20 lc
04:13:31 <oklopol> elliott: okay, but only because i'm a professional teacher now
04:13:46 <itidus20> cake. ok i get what you mean there i think.. however..
04:13:47 <oklopol> itidus20: see, functions are like these creatures that eat stuff and poop other stuff out
04:14:13 <itidus20> is there a way to reduce λa.b c
04:15:38 <itidus20> but λa.b c d is either (λa.b c) d or λa.((b c) d) right?
04:16:24 <Jafet> I wonder what's the minimum number of identifiers you need for lambda calculus to be turing complete
04:16:29 <Jafet> Enough to define S and K, I guess
04:16:46 <Jafet> That makes three or so
04:16:56 <oklopol> "<Patashu> oklopol: download Mines-Perfect and set it to 'Hint' mode. whenever you have to be lucky hint gives you hints until you don't have to be anymore" <<< does it crash if you construct a convoluted case where it's hard to tell
04:17:19 <pikhq> S=\xyz.xz(yz);K=\xy.x says "3 at most".
04:17:27 <Patashu> oklopol: I've never seen it mischaracterize or crash
04:17:28 <Jafet> I presume the software doesn't let you tell it which position to use
04:17:36 <pikhq> itidus20: It's always \a.((b c) d), by definition.
04:17:47 <oklopol> Patashu: i've never seen a hard problem in ms
04:17:51 <elliott> oklopol: please teach itidus20 lambda calculus thanks
04:17:57 <oklopol> which was not manually constructed
04:18:12 <itidus20> its best just to let me ask the questions ^_^;
04:18:20 <oklopol> elliott: oh okay but only because it's my profession
04:18:51 <Jafet> Can you make a turing complete set of combinators with two variables? I suspect it's impossible with one
04:19:08 <elliott> Jafet: it's provably impossible with one
04:19:14 <Patashu> oklopol: yeah, the randomly genreated patterns are easy because you get so many clues
04:19:27 <oklopol> itidus20: so you know how functions have an arg and then they have a body, well, the thing is when you apply a function, or "usabilize" it, it means you like put stuff to the arg and then like substitute things (let's not get into details) and that's it then
04:19:35 <elliott> its proved in that paper uhh
04:19:36 <pikhq> CakeProphet: There is one definable function:\x.x
04:19:42 <itidus20> pikhq: so λa.b c d is unambiguously λa.((b c) d) then?
04:19:45 <elliott> repeat the combinator N times
04:19:53 <elliott> Jafet: there is a one-combinator complete base
04:20:03 <elliott> you cannot just have it be "unary"
04:20:09 <elliott> i.e. repeated applications without parens of one combinator
04:20:11 <oklopol> Patashu: maybe that's the reason, yes, dunno.
04:20:15 <Jafet> elliott: but the combinator can't be defined with just one variable name
04:20:23 <Jafet> So you can't bootstrap it into one-variable lambda calculus
04:20:41 <oklopol> in any case, there's a very small amount of patterns you have to learn
04:21:04 <elliott> Jafet: yeah i suspect you always need three variables
04:21:16 <elliott> can S be expressed as some composition of two-arg combinators...
04:21:35 <zzo38> I have had idea, make a program it can do compression, decompression, encryption, using its own programming language with these blocks: Top block, Pipe block, Control block, I/O block, Pure block, and Data block.
04:22:03 <Jafet> Breaking news: zzo invents cobol
04:22:07 <itidus20> so i know that λf.λx.x or λfx.x or \fx.x or \fx->x is church zero :D
04:22:15 <elliott> Jafet: teach itidus20 lambda calculus
04:22:43 <oklopol> "<CakeProphet> elliott: prove it." --- it basically means you can only have functions that take an argument and apply it to itself n times
04:22:48 <pikhq> itidus20: The Church numerals are nothing inherent, they're just an encoding of numerals in the calculus.
04:22:49 <oklopol> so isn't it kind of obvious
04:22:58 <elliott> oklopol: well you can also apply them to self-applications :P
04:23:15 <pikhq> itidus20: This would be a bit like learning C by staring at struct {void*car,*cadr;} for a bit.
04:23:21 <zzo38> Each one has its own commands, restrictions, etc. Such as, Top block is only one and it has no flow control. All operations in I/O block are reversible, including I/O. Each block has its own memory and there are restrictions how to access the memory from other blocks and from within the same block.
04:23:46 <Jafet> oklopol: jigsaw puzzles are turing complete
04:24:05 <Patashu> is that like the wang tiling turing completeness proof?
04:24:28 <Jafet> Yes, just assign colours to pieces
04:24:46 <oklopol> "<elliott> oklopol: well you can also apply them to self-applications :P" --- well yes, sure, and i don't actually have any idea what that implies
04:24:48 <zzo38> Can you explain how jigsaw puzzles are turing complete?
04:25:01 <CakeProphet> a human with a pencil and paper is turing complete.
04:25:02 <Patashu> zzo38, look up wang tiling
04:25:03 <elliott> \x.x(xx) looks suspiciously like the body of fix
04:25:15 <elliott> but that has two variables :P
04:25:41 <Patashu> basically, it's set up to never repeat itself. so with certain initial conditions you can come up with an infinite number of different end results
04:25:52 <oklopol> "<CakeProphet> oklopol: prove that it's obvious. :D" --- i never said it's obvious, i asked whether it was obvious. i have revolutionized the socratic method, really.
04:26:14 <Patashu> I think it halts if you have to make a hole? don't recall exactly
04:26:34 <CakeProphet> I will now use the socratic method to teach itidus20
04:27:25 <oklopol> if a tiling never repeats itself, you have uncountably many ways to tile the plane
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04:27:35 <CakeProphet> oklopol: also that was a rhetorical question DOESN'T COUNT.
04:27:47 <oklopol> i mean if there is no periodic tiling, then you have uncountably many tilings
04:28:05 <Jafet> oklopol: incorrect
04:28:10 <zzo38> OK, I did read about it. "It is possible to translate any Turing machine into a set of Wang tiles, such that the Wang tiles can tile the plane if and only if the Turing machine will never halt. This problem is undecidable; therefore, the Wang tiling problem is also uncomputable. In a sense, Wang tiles have computational power equivalent to that of a Turing machine."
04:28:12 <Jafet> See Penrose tilings
04:28:40 <oklopol> i'm talking about wang tiles, but i'm pretty sure this holds for other shapes too
04:28:41 <zzo38> And even DNA as well, apparently.
04:29:20 <oklopol> Therefore, a finite patch cannot differentiate between the uncountably many Penrose tilings, nor even determine which position within the tiling is being shown.[43]
04:29:39 <oklopol> where's your reference for only countably many tilings?
04:29:46 <CakeProphet> what are some examples of languages that can be proved to be Turing complete, but where it is very difficult to prove through isomorphism to another language.
04:30:07 <Jafet> Maybe it was the pinwheel tiling
04:30:09 <Gregor> zzo38: Fixed (but not in raw yet)
04:30:22 <oklopol> you do realize i get paid thousands of euros a month to think about tilings
04:30:37 <Jafet> No, I did not realize that
04:30:54 <oklopol> i talk about it all the time
04:31:05 <oklopol> i'm like hey guys you know how i do ca and shit
04:31:19 <oklopol> and you guys like wow oklo u so cool
04:31:53 <elliott> copumpkin: so if ghc is getting type-level nats, constraint kinds... what about pattern synonyms? I figure someone must be working on everything I've ever wanted :P
04:31:57 <oklopol> cellular automata are just deterministic tilings
04:32:12 <oklopol> you use the same constructions
04:32:55 <elliott> CakeProphet: that's not the right name for that pattern
04:32:58 <elliott> you can do that already anyway
04:33:09 <elliott> what's more relevant is something like
04:33:18 <CakeProphet> .....you can? is that an extension or something?
04:33:26 <elliott> pattern VarBind name value = SetVar (Var name) (Eval (Exp value))
04:33:29 <elliott> CakeProphet: view patterns
04:34:06 <CakeProphet> I am not finding your example easy to discern.
04:34:13 <oklopol> anyway there are multiple ways to show tiling is undecidable, the usual way is to use robinson's tileset which draws an infinite quadtree of squares on the plane (Squares on a Plane!), you then just run a tm in each of these squares, avoiding hitting any of the smaller squares inside the big one
04:34:20 <oklopol> this is easy to do as tilings are nondeterministic
04:34:21 <zzo38> But I wanted more-notation in GHC, too. As well as, the ability to transform categories at compile time using TH, other than only the Hask category.
04:35:00 <oklopol> determinizing this is slightly harder, but possible, and proves nilpotency of 1-d ca is undecidable as well
04:35:18 <oklopol> this is a result of my supervisor from some 20 years ago
04:35:41 <oklopol> also proves entropy of ca is uncomputable
04:37:12 <oklopol> Patashu: i can easily prove the uncountability thing to you if you know what compactness is, otherwise i'll go to work
04:37:51 <oklopol> (i hope you don't, because i really have to go to work)
04:38:08 <elliott> declares a pattern synonym.
04:38:17 <elliott> f (VarBind name value) = ...
04:38:21 <elliott> f (SetVar (Var name) (Eval (Exp value))) = ...
04:38:45 <elliott> the lack of ability to abstract patterns is one of haskell's major flaws imo. it means that you have to deliberately design your datatypes to avoid nesting (and therefore be weaker, structurally) to make matching convenient.
04:38:58 <elliott> it also makes using things like Mu to do recursive types prohibitive
04:39:08 <elliott> which makes e.g. seamless annotation of datatypes a pain
04:39:15 <elliott> (like annotating an AST with source location information at every node)
04:39:20 <zzo38> Well, I would like to have macros.
04:39:26 <oklopol> thanks. also because it's not at all easy to prove
04:39:32 <CakeProphet> elliott: also how was tail not the right name for that pattern.
04:40:00 <elliott> an ugly name for an ugly patter
04:40:04 <elliott> you have to describe the _inverse_
04:40:46 <copumpkin> elliott: they're in SHE, quit bitchin'
04:41:05 <elliott> because that's how patterns work
04:42:19 <elliott> because tail is not reversible
04:42:27 <elliott> you can't go from (tail [99,9,9]) to [99,9,9]
04:42:33 <elliott> because you get [9,9] which drops the head information
04:43:01 <elliott> i am done bashing my head against this particular brick wall, sorry. figure it out for yourself
04:43:06 <zzo38> I will try to make a better macro system for Haskell, if I can.
04:43:47 <CakeProphet> functions are already pretty good at being macros...
04:44:46 <zzo38> CakeProphet: I don't think so. That is, if you want complicated macros doing stuff that is not how functions do.
04:44:57 <Gregor> Huzzah, I just fixed an extremely minor bug nobody knew about while thinking I was fixing a less-minor bug somebody did know about :P
04:45:35 <oklopol> Gregor: i'm a bit disappointed, i thought you were omnipotent
04:45:38 <Gregor> zzo38: OK, now the ACTUAL bug has been fixed :P
04:45:56 <Gregor> Sgeo_: Maybe once per /book/ :P
04:46:00 <oklopol> but 41 seconds to fix that second bug...
04:46:42 <zzo38> Another feature I would like to have, is a function whatType :: Q Type in Template Haskell which when bind to function, that function will receive the parameter telling what types are expected for an expression belonging in place of the TH splice.
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04:46:59 <CakeProphet> elliott: I think the problem is that [99,9] is not a pattern you'd want to use with tail anyways.
04:47:54 <Gregor> Note how "wc -l quotes" happens to give a perfectly-formatted English reply :P
04:48:01 <elliott> CakeProphet: you are wrong
04:49:11 <elliott> f (tail [99,9]) = "hello world"
04:49:19 <elliott> f (tail [99,9]) --> "oh no"
04:49:29 <CakeProphet> right, I'm saying it doesn't make sense to use [99,9] with tail
04:49:29 <elliott> if you think that a pattern should not match _itself_ as code, you are insane.
04:49:36 <elliott> copumpkin: please tell CakeProphet he's wrong thx
04:49:52 <elliott> CakeProphet: you are wrong.
04:49:59 <elliott> hey Gregor tell CakeProphet he's wrong.
04:50:31 <monqy> i haven't been attentioen
04:50:36 <monqy> is CakeProphet wrong
04:50:42 <elliott> is a correct pattern synonym
04:50:45 <elliott> <elliott> f (tail [99,9]) = "hello world"
04:50:46 <elliott> <elliott> f (tail [99,9]) --> "oh no"
04:50:49 <elliott> and the fact that tail is not reversible anyway
04:50:55 <elliott> and me telling him that pattern should actually be called consAnythingTo
04:51:15 <CakeProphet> I didn't say it matched the code, but that tail was a correct name for it because it matches the tail of the input.
04:51:22 <elliott> CakeProphet: that is not how patterns work.
04:51:56 <elliott> the pattern (tail xs) should match the result of a function application (tail xs) and bind xs to the argument given to tail.
04:52:02 <elliott> this is impossible, as tail is not reversible.
04:52:15 <CakeProphet> ...is there any functions that could be turned into pattern synonyms like that?
04:52:15 <elliott> if you think otherwise, you are wrong, and I have explicitly shown you why your pattern is incorrect
04:52:31 <elliott> varBind name value = SetVar (Var name) (Eval (Exp value))
04:52:34 <elliott> pattern varBind name value = SetVar (Var name) (Eval (Exp value))
04:52:51 <elliott> the correct definition of a tail pattern is
04:53:10 <elliott> which is clearly impossible
04:53:18 <zzo38> What I mean, is, to be able to make up macros that make up do notation and list notation and that stuff.
04:54:48 <CakeProphet> I was just thinking of the pattern synonyms as pattern functions, which they are.
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05:08:31 <CakeProphet> elliott_: I don't really see why you didn't just ait. :P
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05:10:42 <monqy> ok time to pay attention again
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05:11:11 <elliott_> monqy: help in mercury how do i define a typeclass which takes a type function
05:12:30 <monqy> i dont know that much meurgcury :_--; how to learn type clases
05:12:34 * Sgeo_ wonder if any Ruby nuts would consider it sinful to use hg for a Ruby project
05:12:58 <monqy> "dont use ruby" -monqy
05:13:32 <Sgeo_> Hmm? What's wrong with hg, is git any better, and if no to the last question, what should I use?
05:13:47 <elliott_> or git if you care about other people but really you don't
05:14:08 <monqy> can you selpp? recently i have been unable to sleep properly so i do not sleep properly, then i take naps when i am ready
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05:17:35 <itidus20> ok so, λa.(((((b c)d)e)f)g) i figure this is equivalent of λa.bcdefg but does (λa.bcdefg) h reduce to h ?
05:17:55 <itidus20> oops.. no i thought that out wrong
05:18:28 <itidus20> does (λa.bcdefg) h reduce to bcdefg ?
05:20:03 <itidus20> do applications only get applied in the presence of bound variables?
05:20:34 <itidus20> bcdefgh cannot be reduced right?
05:20:58 <itidus20> uhm no.. i'm still asking the wrong question
05:21:23 <itidus20> (bcdefg) h cannot be reduced right?
05:22:28 <itidus20> but if it was λb.(bcdefg) h it would become hcdefg
05:22:54 <copumpkin> if you meant different parentheses
05:23:08 <itidus20> parentheses are fairly confuing to me
05:27:17 <itidus20> hmm.. so the order of bcdefg only matters when one of them has an abstraction applied to it
05:29:38 <itidus20> well.. you only need to think about implicit parentheses in (\b.bcdefg) if there is something like (\d.bcdefg) \x.y
05:30:45 <itidus20> well i guess i am wondering what (\d.bcdefg) \x.y becomes
05:32:09 <itidus20> thats what i am a bit confused about
05:33:04 <monqy> you can reduce it further
05:34:03 <itidus20> ok so needs parens means bc \x.y efg needs to be at least bc(\x.y)efg ?
05:34:08 <monqy> it might be wise to work with a few less free variables and do bigger reductions etc...........
05:34:19 <elliott_> "Have a question for the Republican candidates? Ask it now" ask it now links to youtube fox news help... "fox news google debate" oh god stop collaborating with them nO google
05:34:29 <monqy> itidus20: something you might enjoy: (\x.xx)(\x.xx)
05:35:05 <itidus20> monqy: i set that situation up specifically to confuse myself and have it resolved now
05:37:26 <itidus20> so what i have learned is if i get (\d.bcdefg) \x.y then it is best reduced to bc(\x.y)efg
05:37:51 <monqy> have you learned anything else
05:38:21 <itidus20> i have what is known as a slow mind
05:38:43 <monqy> what was your conclusion on (\x.xx)(\x.xx)
05:38:48 <itidus20> i tend to like to finish one thought before jumping to another though
05:39:04 <itidus20> i havent actually begun looking at it yet.. which i will start now
05:39:52 <monqy> oh I thought you said you had resolved it but I guess you were referring to something else oops
05:41:34 <itidus20> step 1) (\x.xx)(\x.xx) intermediate step 1.5) (\x.(\x.xx)(\x.xx)) step 2) (\x.xx)(\x.xx) ... this i can now recall as something which i saw in some sidenote i saw somewhere about how not everything can be reduced (i forget exactly.. nevermind that)
05:42:18 <monqy> your intermediate step does not make sense to me
05:42:26 <monqy> is it in a different notation
05:42:42 <itidus20> (\x.xx)(\x.xx) reduces to (\x.xx)(\x.xx)
05:43:01 <elliott_> sounds like itidus20 is starting to get it :P
05:44:45 <monqy> sorry i just sputtered
05:45:15 <elliott_> CakeProphet: it's mock. and duh, of course.
05:45:39 <CakeProphet> I figured it was possible I'm just not sure how to write it
05:48:47 <monqy> I used to remember, but then I forgot. ;_;
05:56:46 <CakeProphet> you just can't refer to the function by a name so you have to do the above.
05:57:17 <monqy> there are other ways too
05:58:15 <CakeProphet> I'd imagine they're all more or less equivalent.
06:00:10 <elliott_> LC is really in need of primitive fix, because a proper fix introduces sharing.
06:00:32 <CakeProphet> is sharing a thing that even makes sense to talk about in the context of LC?
06:00:39 <itidus20> and (\xy.xx)(\xy.xx) reduces into y.(y.(y.(y.((\xy.xx)(\xy.xx))))) and so on reducing forever right?
06:01:22 <elliott_> (\xy.xx)(\xy.xx) -> (\y.(\xy.xx)(\xy.xx))
06:01:27 <elliott_> because it's a lambda without any application
06:01:45 <monqy> you can still reduce cant you??
06:01:59 <monqy> evaluation strategy
06:02:24 <CakeProphet> elliott is using the evaluate-by-impatient-programer strategy.
06:02:56 <monqy> i think something bad happened
06:03:37 <monqy> how did i confuse myself like that
06:04:12 <Vorpal> I see elliott_ is still up
06:04:37 <Vorpal> elliott_: surely you will fall asleep during school?
06:05:12 <elliott_> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz;
06:08:43 <itidus20> (λy'2'.(λy'6'.(λy'10'.(λy'14'.(λy'18'.(λy'22'.(λy'26'.(λy'30'.(λy'34'.(λy'38'.(λy'42'.(λy'46'.(λy'50'.(λy'54'.(λy'58'.(λy'62'.(λy'66'.(λy'70'.(λy'74'.(λy'78'.(λy'82'.(λy'86'.(λy'90'.(λy'94'.(λy'98'.(λy'102'.(λy'106'.(λy'110'.(λy'114'.(λy'118'.(λy'122'.(λy'126'.(λy'130'.(λy'134'.(λy'138'.((λx'141'.(λy'142'.(x'141' x'141'))) (λx'143'.(λy'144'.(x'143' x'143'))))))))
06:08:43 <itidus20> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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06:09:43 <aspect> are those 'numbers' for hygiene?
06:10:03 <itidus20> this thing http://codu.org/lambda/lambda.html
06:10:07 <aspect> because if so, you might be interested to look up deBruijn-index notation
06:10:39 <aspect> that doesn't make it any less fun :)
06:18:05 <CakeProphet> itidus20: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_encoding#Church_booleans
06:18:12 <CakeProphet> now read through this article, starting there.
06:18:25 <CakeProphet> and then go back to the top once you've read that.
06:19:36 <CakeProphet> notice how the Church encodings for true and false act like an if expression.
06:21:21 <itidus20> i don't like" true = ^ift.^iff.ift "
06:21:43 <itidus20> does he mean something else? :P
06:22:16 <itidus20> well its the codu page i assume its gregor
06:22:27 <itidus20> sounds like a screenshot in order
06:22:55 <monqy> CakeProphet: ^ is lambda
06:22:57 <CakeProphet> dunno but just look at that wikipedia page.
06:24:31 <itidus20> http://oi55.tinypic.com/25pq0bc.jpg wahahaha
06:24:41 <CakeProphet> dude I can scroll up in the conversation and click on a link.
06:25:32 <CakeProphet> so yeah you write conditionals like: predicate then-value else-value
06:25:35 <itidus20> so what gregor is doing then is saying "x" = "ift", "y" = "iff"
06:26:49 <CakeProphet> you can think of this as a kind of two-argument function.
06:27:18 <CakeProphet> which is actually ((true x) y), see how that works?
06:27:53 <CakeProphet> yes those the typical representations for true and false.
06:28:23 <CakeProphet> \ab.expr just being a shorthand for \a.(\b. expr)
06:29:23 <CakeProphet> if a and b are both true then x is returns, otherwise y
06:30:25 <itidus20> yes except im thinking about 5 times slower
06:32:25 <CakeProphet> are you familiar with ?: in other languages? church booleans work like that except automatically... you don't need ?:
06:32:47 <itidus20> so if true = \ab.a then true x == \b.x and if false = \ab.b then false x == \b.b
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06:36:32 <itidus20> (\a.(\b.a)) x y (\b.x) y x ; (\a.(\b.b)) x y (\b.b) y y;
06:36:46 <itidus20> so thats about my processing speed
06:37:01 <CakeProphet> you already had half of it worked out you didn't need to start over.
06:37:16 <itidus20> either of us expecting my brain to go any faster will result in just anguish
06:38:00 <CakeProphet> if you pass a Church boolean two arguments, true will give you the first one, and false will give you the second one.
06:40:50 <CakeProphet> that's like.... a conditition, where you want one thing to happen when something is true and another thing to happen when something is false.
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07:06:06 <CakeProphet> :t let true x y = x; false x y = y; not b = b false true in not true
07:06:11 <CakeProphet> :t let true x y = x; false x y = y; not b = b false true in not false
07:09:02 <CakeProphet> > let true x y = x; false x y = y; not b = b; and x y = x y false; or x y = x true y in false true in or (not true) (and true false) "launch nukes" "pet kitten"
07:09:03 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `in'
07:09:18 <CakeProphet> > let true x y = x; false x y = y; not b = b; and x y = x y false; or x y = x true y in or (not true) (and true false) "launch nukes" "pet kitten"
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07:09:39 <Patashu> first minesweeper 'speedrun' video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktLAPx_v8AE
07:09:44 <CakeProphet> > let true x y = x; false x y = y; not b = b; and x y = x y false; or x y = x true y in or (not false) (and true false) "launch nukes" "pet kitten"
07:10:21 <CakeProphet> not should be not b = b false true... I accidentally cut that out.
07:12:10 <CakeProphet> heh, I just noticed that if' in Haskell is a function that converts a Bool to a Church boolean. :P
07:15:31 <Patashu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktLAPx_v8AE fixed link
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08:21:31 <aspect> let true x = const x; false x = id; cons x y = \z -> z x y; car = true; cdr = false in (car (cdr (cons 1 (cons 2 3))))
08:21:34 <aspect> > let true x = const x; false x = id; cons x y = \z -> z x y; car = true; cdr = false in (car (cdr (cons 1 (cons 2 3))))
08:21:35 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (b -> a -> a)
08:23:07 <Patashu> I think that happens if it tries to show a function
08:23:08 <aspect> > let true x = const x; false x = id; cons x y = \z -> z x y; car = true; cdr = false in (cons 1 (cons 2 3)) cdr car
08:23:44 <aspect> should have used car x = x true etc
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09:42:02 <Patashu> I have a question about holding ctrl and hitting space.
09:42:06 <Patashu> On pidgin and notepad++, it does nothing.
09:42:12 <Patashu> On chrome and mIRC, it creates a space.
09:42:23 <Patashu> Why does it differ across programs? Is it a linux vs non linux thing?
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14:14:54 <Sgeo> and by evil i mean boring
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15:49:28 <Gregor> Idea: wine for win32s.
15:49:38 <Gregor> I expect this to be implemented by the time I reappear in ~1hr.
15:57:10 * CakeProphet has been studying for a quiz on the world map, and now knows where things are located.
15:57:21 <CakeProphet> I feel like, at least for now, my dumb American syndrome has been cured.
15:59:29 <cheater> although judging by the last winter it might well happen this year
16:00:01 <cheater> i think they hadn't had that for at least 50 years
16:00:56 <CakeProphet> I think lakes in northern Canada freeze often (...?) and they're on the same latitude roughly.
16:01:03 <CakeProphet> but climate is weird and doesn't really work like that.
16:01:29 <cheater> no it is not the same latitude really, the baltic sea is further south
16:01:52 <CakeProphet> because there's a lot of inland seas as well.
16:02:45 <cheater> although some seas are called lakes by some cultures
16:02:52 <CakeProphet> yeah we don't have those. Unless you count Salt Lake.
16:02:53 <cheater> for example the baltic sea is called Ostsee in german
16:03:00 <CakeProphet> which I think is a... salt lake? I'm not sure what the difference is.
16:03:06 <cheater> probably an influence from dutch
16:03:36 <cheater> the difference is the drifts
16:03:56 <CakeProphet> I thought it was perhaps naming conventions or size related.
16:04:02 <cheater> and whether it is at the top or at the bottom of the reservoir
16:04:10 <cheater> a sea is the place all water goes into
16:04:18 <cheater> a lake is a source or an intermediate
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16:05:15 <cheater> in the end water ends up penetrating the sediment and reaching minerals
16:05:34 <cheater> it's not really salt as is, it's a much more complex selection of minerals
16:06:04 <cheater> that's why sea salt is a billion times better than industry table salt
16:06:22 <cheater> i can get salt which is gathered from the sea by hand in the adriatic
16:06:23 <CakeProphet> I've only seen the coast (I guess that's what you would call it...)
16:06:47 <CakeProphet> I assume when you say "by hand" you mean "by hand using some tools" right? :D
16:06:51 <cheater> apparently if it's very windy the salt grains crystallize on the surface of the adriatic and they are then gathered by the fishermen or something
16:07:07 <cheater> usually by hand means as opposed to using machines
16:07:49 <CakeProphet> thank you for clearing up my dumb american syndrome with some of your geology.
16:08:02 <CakeProphet> unfortunately that will not help me on my map quiz, which I'm still probably fucked for.
16:10:05 <CakeProphet> it's strange, I would think that things like the Arabian and Adriatic seas as being gulfs
16:10:56 <CakeProphet> well, red sea is a better example than arabian.
16:13:05 <CakeProphet> I guess they are gulfs but not by name, perhaps.
16:15:16 <CakeProphet> The Red Sea (alternatively Arabian Gulf[1] or Gulf of Arabia[2][3]) i
16:15:45 <CakeProphet> but the Adriatic sea doesn't have an alternative gulf name. :P
16:15:45 <cheater> a gulf is like a sea which is more connected to the ocean
16:19:42 <CakeProphet> what's the climate in Germany comparable to?
16:20:43 <cheater> i don't think there is a direct match like that
16:20:48 <CakeProphet> I imagine it's cooler than it is here in the south US.
16:21:01 <cheater> south usa is like italy i am told
16:21:13 <cheater> i was talking about how the weather is in bari just today
16:21:22 <cheater> apparently it never goes below 10 celsius
16:21:34 <cheater> which would be similar to what i was told about houston
16:21:44 <CakeProphet> it actually does reach freezing here in the winter, at least for a few weeks.
16:22:16 <CakeProphet> you get really hot summers and still get below freezing temps in the winter sometimes. :P
16:22:46 <CakeProphet> this summer was ridiculous. pretty much upper 90s F for over a month.
16:23:15 <CakeProphet> and, unlike places like Arizona which frequently hit above 100, it's very humid here.
16:23:56 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez wc yodawg
16:24:26 <CakeProphet> I'm pretty sure we have a temperature converter somewhere here...
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16:26:50 <CakeProphet> still someone from the north US would be completely baffled as to how anyone would enjoy 90 degree temperatures.
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16:27:28 <CakeProphet> ...but I can't imagine who would enjoy 0 degree weather. :P
16:28:31 <cheater> -17 is normal winter weather
16:28:50 <cheater> yeah i am learning italian
16:28:59 <cheater> so maybe one day i'll move there or spain
16:29:06 <cheater> catalonian is like halfway italian anyways
16:29:12 <cheater> so learning italian helps with that too
16:29:13 <CakeProphet> though I guess GA is nice if you like deciduous forests.... everywhere.
16:29:38 <cheater> i had a lot of forests in poland
16:30:10 <CakeProphet> north GA = mountains and forests south and central GA = boring slightly hilly plains
16:30:55 <CakeProphet> but, you really only need to see them once to get the idea.
16:31:02 <CakeProphet> that it drags on for miles looking exactly the same.
16:31:13 <CakeProphet> but it is cool to see the... vastness, with no obstructions.
16:32:24 <CakeProphet> there are definitely many places in Europe I would enjoy.
16:32:49 <CakeProphet> but I can't speak anything but English. Which isn't a huge problem, but still makes things more difficult.
16:33:04 * CakeProphet can read some Spanish somewhat proficiently, but is terrible at speaking or listening.
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16:33:22 <cheater> you learn once you're there
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16:34:25 <CakeProphet> how often do you run into people that don't speak English, though?
16:37:19 <cheater> people at the local italian were surprised when i told them they called the seafood in the menu "sea fruit"
16:38:02 <CakeProphet> Europe would be a hilarious place to live for a while.
16:38:04 <cheater> which is what you call it in german and italian
16:38:12 <cheater> yeah it's a hilarious place always
16:38:22 <cheater> i heard america was sort of boring in that regard
16:38:38 <CakeProphet> I'm not really sure what makes a place hilarious
16:38:51 <cheater> that's the problem with you americans
16:38:57 <CakeProphet> the whole melting pot thing is kind of inaccurate.
16:38:58 <cheater> you don't know what makes a place hilarious
16:39:07 <cheater> yeah it's not really melting
16:39:15 <CakeProphet> just kind of stuck together in one culture.
16:39:48 <cheater> in london you can really get culture shock
16:40:06 <CakeProphet> percentage wise we have more non-English speakers than the UK.
16:40:22 <cheater> america is pretty much jews and mexicans vs the rest
16:40:38 <CakeProphet> not really, but yeah there's a lot of hispanics.
16:40:53 <cheater> those are the major groups though aren't they
16:41:08 <cheater> i totally forgot the black guy
16:41:13 <cheater> in europe it's not like that that really
16:41:13 <CakeProphet> we kind of just have this color-code system
16:41:19 <cheater> because everyone has their like
16:41:23 <CakeProphet> and don't really pay attention to actual ethnicity.
16:41:36 <cheater> where their family lived for 1000s of years since it evolved from a fern
16:42:32 <cheater> nah it's like that everywhere
16:42:34 <CakeProphet> in the south for instance most immigrants are hispanic
16:42:50 <CakeProphet> because, well, uh, the spanish speaking countries are south of us.
16:43:15 <cheater> i have just had two copies of the same partition on my computer
16:43:30 <CakeProphet> I imagine in the north you get more europeans and people of Jewish decent.
16:43:38 <cheater> and one was updated, recovered, fixed, and had a newer kernel
16:43:43 <cheater> grub loaded the kernel from that
16:43:54 <cheater> and it couldn't find the modules :D
16:44:00 <CakeProphet> a lot of native Georgians actually come from colonial German immigrants.
16:44:21 <CakeProphet> I imagine I am a descendent from one of these immigrants.
16:45:24 <CakeProphet> and then in New York for example you have a lot of people who descend from colonial Irish people
16:45:31 <CakeProphet> so it really just depends on the location as to the ethnic make-up.
16:45:48 <CakeProphet> but "general American white mutt" permeates everywhere. :P
16:46:45 <cheater> i liked the movie 'gangs of new york'
16:47:08 <cheater> it was a historical reconstruction of the every day life of the irish minority in the early days of new york
16:47:56 <cheater> no it is a movie about gangs in new york
16:48:04 <cheater> beating and killing eachother up
16:48:16 <Gregor> "killing eachother up"
16:48:32 <CakeProphet> Gregor: be quiet roger or I'll kill you up.
16:48:34 <cheater> yeah funny how it came out innit?
16:48:44 <cheater> you know daniel day lewis? of "my left foot" fame?
16:48:48 <cheater> sure you've seen that movie
16:48:58 <CakeProphet> I CANNOT TALK ANYMORE I MUST BE AT SCHOOL.
16:49:06 <cheater> well he also played a character in gangs of new york
16:49:12 <cheater> he was good in both movies
16:49:17 <cheater> both roles were also very similar
16:49:30 <cheater> (not really, they were amazingly different)
16:49:39 * CakeProphet will return in.... about 2 and a half hours.
16:52:30 <CakeProphet> also it is really strange to me that non-Americans talk about American movies.
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16:54:04 <Gregor> I notice a distinct lack of wine for win32s.
16:58:20 <zzo38> Is it possible to represent anything masthematically correct in category theory in Haskell?
16:58:44 <cheater> it might be but i'd call that masthurbation
16:59:00 <cheater> maybe if you're a masthodon
17:01:05 <zzo38> What does that mean?
17:02:24 <zzo38> What are the classes in Haskell called in category theory?
17:13:48 <CakeProphet> Monoids are... monoids. Categories are categories. Monads are monads.
17:15:21 <CakeProphet> I don't think you'll get anything too amazing by trying to apply category theory to programming in Haskell.
17:15:34 <CakeProphet> but it does help to understand some of the concepts.
17:16:26 <zzo38> No, I mean classes in general.
17:17:14 <CakeProphet> well a typeclass is a set of polymorphic functions
17:17:27 <CakeProphet> which would make it something like a... set of sets of morphisms?
17:19:13 <CakeProphet> because you have to account for Haskell's polymorphic functions being represented by multiple monomorphic morphisms in category theory.
17:20:12 <CakeProphet> I bet copumpkin or oerjan know more about this...
17:22:36 <CakeProphet> yeah I believe a set of morphism sets would be accurate.
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17:38:40 <elliott_> 06:32:25: <CakeProphet> are you familiar with ?: in other languages? church booleans work like that except automatically... you don't need ?:
17:38:57 <elliott_> i am very sceptical of cakeprophet's approach to teaching iti.
17:39:23 <elliott_> especially bringing haskell into it.
17:40:13 <Gregor> You know how monads work in Haskell? Church numerals are like that, only better.
17:41:08 <elliott_> Gregor: Wow, you just set off seething hatred in me :P
17:41:38 <elliott_> hey oklopol did you see patashu totally own at minesweeper (apart from the bit where he lost) i dunno whether it'll make you feel superior or inferior
17:42:29 <Gregor> ... and shoots elliott_ with it.
17:42:52 <elliott_> Good thing this is Minecraft and so I've sustained approximately one minor bruise
17:43:15 <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearranging and randomizing vital internal structure?
17:43:19 <Gregor> Monads are like that, only worse.
17:43:40 <elliott_> `addquote <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearranging and randomizing vital internal structure? <Gregor> Monads are like that, only worse.
17:43:43 <HackEgo> 663) <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearranging and randomizing vital internal structure? <Gregor> Monads are like that, only worse.
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17:44:19 <HackEgo> 2008-06-01.txt:20:27:37: <tusho> Slereah: the IO monad is what we refer to as a "clever trick", though
17:46:20 <HackEgo> 2010-02-20.txt:21:16:03: <alise> It's a full-blooded language, define what you want as long as it halts. If it might not or doesn't halt, put it in the partiality monad and you can still define it.
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17:46:45 <elliott_> Gregor: can you make it filter out everything i say so it's less predictable
17:48:08 <HackEgo> 2011-02-09.txt:17:28:52: <Vorpal> elliott, well hm. So you don't use that monad for IO at all?
17:48:15 <HackEgo> 2010-05-08.txt:23:14:28: <uorygl> A monad is a pair of functions.
17:48:28 <HackEgo> 2010-05-08.txt:23:13:22: <alise_> stop even trying. learn haskell first, then monads
17:48:34 <HackEgo> 2009-12-26.txt:13:19:26: <augur> soupdragon, are monads all Functors? they are right?
17:48:35 <elliott_> thsi si SOoooOOOOOoooOOOooOOOooOOooooooooooo boring
17:49:28 <tswett> elliott_: I may have been talking about category theory, where the functions determine the type. I think.
17:50:06 <elliott_> tswett: Maybe you were talking about LAAAAAAAAAAAAAME
17:50:52 <elliott_> this is the best minesweeper video i've ever watched
17:52:46 <tswett> I don't think LAME has monads.
17:53:40 <elliott_> No, but LAAAAAAAAAAAAAME does.
17:54:49 <elliott_> It stands for LAME-Aided Axiom-Added Ableising Americanisms Astutely Analysing An Antediluvian Astrophysicist Also A Monadic Exoskeleton.
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17:58:48 <elliott_> Gregor: I just realised that I already know what the hot new thing in parsing it, but had been mentally blocking it out for some reason :P
18:03:50 <elliott_> Gregor: The parsing with derivatives stuff
18:04:12 <elliott_> (Most people ignored it after Russ Cox thought it went exponential for a certain left-recursive grammar but then it turns out that it actually doesn't at all)
18:04:17 <elliott_> It works with any CFG, so woo :P
18:06:18 <elliott_> And it also uses laziness in its core algorithm, so TOTALLY GONNA BE THE BEST HASKELL PARSER COMBINATOR LIBRARY EVERRRRRRRRRRR
18:19:07 <augur> elliott_: you're boring
18:21:16 <augur> words with newline chars are indeed pretty cool
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18:24:29 <itidus20> hmm.. now if i made that into (\t->h) x would it be haskell?
18:24:40 <elliott_> are WYSIWYGIYULR(k)—“what you see is what you get if you understand
18:27:38 <Taneb> What is happening in the WORLD OF ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING
18:28:32 <itidus20> if i have (\t.h) x and i made that into (\t->h) x would it be haskell?
18:29:02 <itidus20> or is this opening a can of worms?
18:29:22 <elliott_> itidus20: Not unless you define h.
18:29:25 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
18:29:40 <elliott_> <interactive>:1:8: Not in scope: `h'
18:29:40 <elliott_> <interactive>:1:11: Not in scope: `x'
18:29:46 <elliott_> Given definitions of h and x, yes, that works.
18:29:50 <elliott_> But really, concentrate on just LC.
18:30:03 <Taneb> How's itidus20 going with his education?
18:30:05 <itidus20> ahh... i see.. i havent defined h and x
18:30:08 <elliott_> Haskell is not the LC, it isn't even a superset of the lambda calculus; it's a superset of a different, related system.
18:31:15 <itidus20> one fascinating element of LC is that an expression can't reduce itself out of existence
18:31:41 <itidus20> ie.. there is no empty set as it were
18:35:54 <itidus20> perhaps i am missing the point a bit.. arithmetic can never get beyond zero
18:36:17 <Taneb> You mean, arithmetic can never be a negative number?
18:36:40 <itidus20> i mean, no matter what you do to an arithmetic expression it will never cease to be an arithmetic expression
18:36:53 <itidus20> it will default to zero though
18:37:34 <elliott_> that's because the LC is closed under reduction
18:37:45 <elliott_> i.e., the reduction of any lambda-calculus term is a lambda-calculus term
18:38:51 <elliott_> so, reducing a lambda-calculus term any number of times cannot produce something that isn't a lambda-calculus term
18:51:00 <Taneb> Youth Theatre started today
18:51:12 <Taneb> Also, I am lamenting the loss of my luscious locks
18:51:58 <itidus20> and (\abcdefg.a) mnopqrs will reduce to m
18:54:12 <itidus20> and (\abcdefg.h) mnopqrs will reduce to h
18:54:39 <Taneb> Assuming h is defined
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18:55:05 <itidus20> oh .. does that matter in pure LC?
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18:58:05 <elliott> <itidus20> and (\abcdefg.a) mnopqrs will reduce to m
18:58:07 <elliott> <itidus20> and (\abcdefg.h) mnopqrs will reduce to h
18:58:11 <elliott> <Taneb> Assuming h is defined
18:58:13 <elliott> * augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
18:58:15 <elliott> <itidus20> oh .. does that matter in pure LC?
18:58:28 <elliott> you can say "for all h,m,n,o,p,q,r,s, (\abcdefg.h) mnopqrs reduces to h"
18:58:41 <elliott> so basically it doesn't matter
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19:22:06 <itidus20> is it possible to treat I = (\x.x) as meaning x does not exist outside of I?
19:22:32 <itidus20> if name clashes are caused by notation for example
19:22:32 <elliott> Sure, x is lexically scoped.
19:22:38 <elliott> It is completely opaque outside of I.
19:24:35 <itidus20> so anyway, this alternative paper i found is a bit better, by some guy Raul Rojas
19:24:56 <elliott> A retired Mexican-American featherweight boxer, apparently
19:24:59 <elliott> Perhaps not the same Raul Rojas
19:25:41 <itidus20> Ral Rojas Gonzlez (born 1955, in Mexico City) is a professor of Computer Science and Mathematics at the Free University of Berlin and a renowned specialist in artificial neural networks.
19:31:17 <Vorpal> elliott: crazy torrent: 40158 seeders, 38480 leechers
19:31:24 <Vorpal> never seen that much before
19:31:44 <elliott> i suspect that's uh... not accurate
19:31:47 <Vorpal> elliott: a game I'm trying out a bit before buying. Yogscast recently played it.
19:31:57 <Vorpal> elliott: anyway that is what the tracker reports.
19:32:19 <Vorpal> or trackers rather, there is about 20000 on each of the ones that don't time out.
19:33:08 <Vorpal> elliott: but I seem to connect to several hundred peers just fine.
19:33:19 <elliott> Ten thousand or so for a huge torrent, sure
19:33:24 <elliott> Forty thousand /seeders/... no
19:33:33 <Vorpal> elliott: yes I'm wtf at it too
19:34:02 <Vorpal> elliott: maybe some are dual counted on different trackers somehow?
19:34:28 <Vorpal> elliott: anyway it is massive, even if not as massive as that
19:34:39 <itidus20> i think there is some fanciful seeder counts that get around
19:34:57 <itidus20> you can easily see a torrent with 3000 seeders and then wait for any action sometimes
19:36:43 <Vorpal> itidus20: well there are no issues with seeders or leechers here, whatever the real numbers are
19:37:09 <elliott> Wow, I had no idea SQLite's testing was /that/ hardcore.
19:38:57 <elliott> Vorpal: http://www.sqlite.org/testing.html
19:39:12 <Vorpal> elliott: iirc they have fairly extensive automated testing tools? *waiting for page to load*
19:39:24 <Vorpal> ah yes, I read that page before
19:39:28 <elliott> "As of version 3.7.5 (all statistics in the report are against that release of SQLite), the SQLite library consists of approximately 73.0 KSLOC of C code. (KSLOC means thousands of "Source Lines Of Code" or, in other words, lines of code excluding blank lines and comments.) By comparison, the project has 1251 times as much test code and test scripts - 91378.6 KSLOC."
19:39:31 <elliott> " The TCL Tests are the oldest set of tests for SQLite. They are contained in the same source tree as the SQLite core and like the SQLite core are in the public domain. The TCL tests are the primary tests used during development. The TCL tests are written using the TCL scripting language. The TCL test harness itself consists of 18.9 KSLOC of C code used to create the TCL interface. The test scripts are contained in 617 files totaling 9.3MB in siz
19:39:32 <elliott> e. There are 27664 distinct test cases, but many of the test cases are parameterized and run multiple times (with different parameters) so that on a full test run, about 1.4 million separate tests are performed."
19:40:17 <elliott> Jesus christ, 48.7 MB of C code making up one of the test suites?
19:40:24 <Taneb> Has anyone written a Brainfuck self-compiler?
19:40:26 <elliott> I can't even comprehend what that much C can do.
19:40:50 <Vorpal> elliott: well you can trust sqlite3 to be correct pretty much. Sure, not proven, but correct for most purposes
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19:52:09 <itidus20> for all y, (\x.yx) y reduces to y y , right?
19:53:01 <oerjan> itidus20: if y does not contain x free
19:53:42 <elliott> oerjan: You might want to clarify that a bit :P
19:54:03 <oerjan> if x is a free variable of y, then it might fail
19:55:45 <itidus20> which i guess could be rewritten as (\yx.yx)yx
19:55:56 <oerjan> yes. although that particular case happens not to be a counterexample, i think
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19:56:40 <oerjan> hm i should switch servers
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19:57:10 <elliott> oerjan: just reconnect when it goes down
19:57:21 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:57:25 <elliott> <elliott> oerjan: just reconnect when it goes down
19:57:44 <olsner> gotta disconnect before you get disconnected!
19:58:35 <oerjan> elliott: it could take my client a long time to discover the disconnection
19:59:30 <oerjan> but it certainly takes a while for freenode to notice the other way
20:00:15 <itidus20> oerjan: what about (\y.(\x.yx)yx) a b is that a broken example?
20:00:50 <oerjan> <itidus20> which i guess could be rewritten as (\yx.yx)yx <-- no that's not the same, the last y isn't in both scopes
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20:02:00 <oerjan> itidus20: you cannot get a broken example from \y.(\x.yx)yx
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20:02:32 <oerjan> because that automatically renames things
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20:03:18 <elliott> oerjan: I wish alpha-conversion wasn't the traditional way to present the lc :(
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20:03:22 <elliott> oerjan: I wish alpha-conversion wasn't the traditional way to present the lc :(
20:03:23 <oerjan> <itidus20> for all y, (\x.yx) y reduces to y y , right?
20:03:41 <oerjan> for that to break you have to replace y with something which _literally_ contains x
20:04:08 <oerjan> (and y = x doesn't actually work, but that's a coincidence)
20:05:24 <elliott> oerjan: mutters something about de bruijn
20:05:28 <itidus20> yeah at this point i am just guessing :P
20:05:51 <itidus20> i can study more when i am ready
20:06:00 <oerjan> itidus20: that one doesn't work because of alpha renaming. once you put it inside \y ... alpha renaming protects you against name collisions
20:06:42 <oerjan> it's only when you substitute something for y _literally_ in (\x.yx) y without doing alpha renaming for x that it can break
20:07:19 <oerjan> hm it might be that your book consider renaming x to happen automatically with substitution too, in which case it's always y y
20:07:46 <itidus20> like if you change (\x.yx) y (\x.yx) x
20:07:54 <itidus20> well this isnt from a book.. just thinking
20:08:08 <oerjan> itidus20: well i was assuming you substituted _both_ y's
20:08:32 <oerjan> and also, y = x doesn't work as a counterexample
20:08:44 <itidus20> can you give an example of anything that could go wrong with (\x.yx) y ?
20:09:00 <oerjan> y = x x should get pretty hairy :P
20:10:45 <itidus20> i think that what has happened is that i havent explored substitutions at all..
20:10:58 <itidus20> and so didn't realize it was possible
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20:15:13 <oerjan> basically the rules for when you must do alpha conversion when substituting are, in modern terms, about preserving lexical scoping
20:15:38 <oerjan> although it is possible that the idea of lexical scoping actually evolved _from_ lambda calculus
20:15:41 <itidus20> so i know you can add (\<name>.<expression1>) around expression1 and thus it becomes that..
20:16:08 <itidus20> and you can add (<expression1> <expression) around expression1 and it becomes that
20:16:48 <itidus20> but i didn't consider that you can take <expression1> and replace it with <expression2>
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20:17:29 <oerjan> itidus20: erm you haven't learned beta reduction yet? that's the _essence_ of lambda calculus
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20:19:03 <elliott> oerjan: i don't think he's learning it as a formal set of rules, he's just replacing it intuitively :P
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20:19:46 <oerjan> basically, (\x.<expression1>)(<expression2>) reduces to <expression1> with <expression2> substituted for x, while renaming bound variables to avoid collisions
20:20:46 <oerjan> and repeating beta reduction is how lambda calculus computes things
20:20:58 <itidus20> well (\x.yx) y to (\x.(xx)x)(xx) isn't really reduction right?
20:21:15 <itidus20> well i mean it may be some form of reduction
20:21:30 <oerjan> no, that's substituting xx for y, but ignoring the renaming rules
20:22:14 <oerjan> you could call it substitution, but it's not a correct one for beta reduction
20:22:26 <itidus20> is it because (\x.(xx)x)(xx) is broken that it requires substitution to arrive at it?
20:22:34 <elliott> fromApple News_Europe@insideapple.apple.com
20:22:34 <elliott> subject20 Sept. is your last chance to get a 65 pound University Gift Card.
20:22:34 <elliott> Wow, that's a pretty heavy University Gift Card.
20:22:39 <elliott> What the hell is it made out of?
20:23:26 <oerjan> itidus20: yes. because if you started with (\y.(\x.yx)y)(xx) instead, then the beta reduction rule would demand the bound x be renamed.
20:23:59 <itidus20> so, in practice do you ever need to do something likel (\x.yx) y to (\x.(xx)x)(xx) ?
20:24:28 <Guest82930> I HEARD THAT MELNU THE OVERSEER IS GOING TO RETURN IN 2012. COMMENTS?
20:24:32 -!- iamcal has joined.
20:24:33 <oerjan> -> (\y.(\z.yz)y)(xx) -> (\z.(xx)z)(xx) -> (xx)(xx)
20:24:46 <oerjan> that doesn't break when renaming properly
20:25:34 <oerjan> Guest82930: THE GREAT OVERSEER SMELLS PRETTY BAD, SO SHOULD BE EASY TO HIDE FROM FOR MOST PEOPLE
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20:26:42 <itidus20> oerjan: i am not sure how to ask the right question. is it wrong to just say y = (xx)?
20:27:30 <Taneb> itidus20: no, but in some cases (when it is ambiguous what x is) yes
20:28:00 <oerjan> itidus20: that's ok. but you should always avoid name collisions by renaming.
20:28:33 <oerjan> so basically if you say (\x.yx)y where y = xx, you normally will automatically rename the bound x'es
20:29:32 <itidus20> does y = (xx) imply ( \y.<expr>) (xx) ?
20:29:39 <oerjan> itidus20: it is even common when representing lambda calculus in computers to use a representation where bound variables aren't named, that's the deBruijn indexes elliott mentioned
20:30:03 <oerjan> because that avoids a lot of this trouble
20:30:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Or even just to pretend everything is combinator calculus because it's so much easier.
20:30:45 <Taneb> Combinator calculus is harder to write but easier to read
20:30:50 <oerjan> itidus20: no. the y to the right is bound, so not the same variable really
20:31:45 <oerjan> itidus20: actually, yes, you can always incorporate equations in that way, which is why pure lambda calculus doesn't really need them
20:32:16 <itidus20> when going from (\x.yx) y to (\x.(xx)x)(xx) is ( \y.<expr>) (xx) implied?
20:32:48 <oerjan> itidus20: not if you want it to break.
20:33:04 <itidus20> but you never want it to break right?
20:33:59 <oerjan> itidus20: wikipedia suggests the term "capture-avoiding substitutions" for the ones involving renaming
20:34:18 <itidus20> (\x.yx) y is safe as long as you use proper renaming methods
20:34:19 <oerjan> and you should always use them to avoid breakage
20:35:17 <itidus20> ok so its basically that i said "for all y, " can include a y which is not following proper renaming methods
20:37:38 <itidus20> my guess is that the compressability of a video is not much though
20:38:53 <itidus20> if anything "video format" is all about the set of compression routines optimized for videos
20:39:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh BtW I have to go to Ireland tomorrow for grandfather hauling, don't miss me too much.
20:41:04 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> FAREWELL RED DWARF <-- are you sure your priorities are sound?
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20:43:21 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, I've watched it all twice, I need fresh DS9 to stave off the boredom.
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20:46:51 <itidus20> Phantom_Hoover: i revised my knowledge
20:47:40 <itidus20> but i still don't think sad events should mean you can't have craic
20:48:28 <itidus20> the only thing i think i got wrong about the meaning was using an article 'a'
20:50:38 <itidus20> ok it makes sense that i don't know what it means
20:51:32 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, it doesn't mean 'a good time', it doesn't really have a direct equivalent.
20:51:50 <Taneb> In BytePusher, is the register thingy containing the current instruction automatically updated?
20:58:21 <elliott> `addquote <Taneb> Mayor says we need to make aluminum items <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, PH says you need to make lava items.
20:58:23 <HackEgo> 664) <Taneb> Mayor says we need to make aluminum items <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, PH says you need to make lava items.
21:02:25 <oerjan> can you feel the lava tonight
21:08:24 <itidus20> (\x.yx) y = (\bound1.free1 bound1) free1 ; (\y.(\z.yz)y)(xx) = (\bound1.(\bound2.bound1 bound2)bound1)(free1 free1)
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21:10:11 <oerjan> itidus20: it is not usually allowed to rename _free_ variables, only bound ones
21:11:25 <itidus20> yeah i am implying some unstated mechanism for converting variables named free to variables named bound
21:12:15 <itidus20> no no tats not the problem. nevermind hm. ok
21:15:02 <itidus20> sorry oerjan my brain goes off in 10 directions before just taking a proper literal interpretation
21:17:18 <oerjan> with math, it's important to understand the literal interpretation first
21:19:04 <itidus20> ironically with narrative text the literal interpretation can be a problem
21:19:25 <itidus20> narrative might be wrong word here
21:19:52 <itidus20> things like philosophy, religion, novels, poetry
21:20:50 <itidus20> maybe it is formal vs informal
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22:08:42 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> Dear god stop staring at me. <monqy> no never <Phantom_Hoover> monqy is always staring at everyone. <monqy> it takes many eyes to do this but I manage <Phantom_Hoover> He is an inspiration to us all.
22:08:44 <HackEgo> 665) <elliott> Dear god stop staring at me. <monqy> no never <Phantom_Hoover> monqy is always staring at everyone. <monqy> it takes many eyes to do this but I manage <Phantom_Hoover> He is an inspiration to us all.
22:09:17 <Phantom_Hoover> My quotes collection seems that bit more empty when I remember that elliott added like all of them.
22:09:49 <elliott> That was a monqy quote not a Phantom_Hoover quote you egoistic fuck.
22:10:19 <elliott> monqy ft. Phantom_Hoover -- always staring at everyone
22:10:36 <elliott> monqy ft. Phantom_Hoover remixed by elliott, a HackEgo production.
22:11:17 <elliott> `pastequotes Phantom_Hoover
22:11:19 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7911
22:11:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Just monqy staring at you, also I sometimes stare at you too.
22:12:36 <elliott> 433) <Sgeo> Hmm. I guess it's nearby GRBs that would be problematic? <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, if by 'problematic' you mean 'what's that in the AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH'.
22:12:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: WHAT IS THE CONTEXT
22:12:42 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover's quote collection seems really small when he realizes they're all somebody else's.
22:13:18 <elliott> 421) <Phantom_Hoover> Lymia, I don't know what that is but I want to hit you for it on principle.
22:13:18 <elliott> Interestingly, glogbot didn't log this.
22:13:30 <elliott> `log is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
22:13:33 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:13:30: <elliott> `log is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
22:13:37 <elliott> `log is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
22:13:40 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:13:33: <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:13:30: <elliott> `log is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
22:13:45 <elliott> `log is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
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22:13:49 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:13:40: <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:13:33: <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:13:30: <elliott> `log is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
22:13:58 <elliott> `pastelogs is pursuing the line of reasoning that eating raw foods can improve cognitive function
22:14:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1860
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22:14:15 <elliott> Where was that from, then?
22:14:18 <elliott> I doubt it was -minecraft.
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22:14:52 <Phantom_Hoover> I love all the quotes the context of which is lost to history because you added them from an msg.
22:15:10 <elliott> 563) <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god. <Phantom_Hoover> I've become a metallurgy hipster.
22:15:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Was that really after we started playing DF?
22:15:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I removed the "Iridium is too mainstream." for comedic effect.
22:15:48 <elliott> You're meant to use sed to do that.
22:16:14 <oerjan> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: WHAT IS THE CONTEXT <-- all necessary context was included afaiac
22:17:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15374
22:19:08 <elliott> `log understand it perfectly\. it's complete
22:19:21 <elliott> `log not even going to try and understand
22:19:24 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:19:21: <elliott> `log not even going to try and understand
22:19:31 <elliott> `pastelogs not even going to try and understand
22:19:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23435
22:19:42 <HackEgo> 2010-11-13.txt:22:18:45: <pikhq> Vorpal: With a GFCI it's perfectly safe.
22:19:46 <elliott> Gregor: What is UP with these incomplete logs.
22:19:54 <HackEgo> 2011-02-03.txt:23:09:13: <elliott> @undo do x <- pSimpleUL; xs <- pUL; return (x :< xs)
22:20:07 <HackEgo> 2007-02-11.txt:23:43:53: -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+").
22:20:13 <HackEgo> 2011-03-09.txt:03:03:48: <elliott> Gregor: nearbyint@libc.so
22:20:19 <HackEgo> 2005-06-09.txt:10:12:12: <DMM> I read about Homespring for the first time today. Wow... that just blew me away :-)
22:20:28 <elliott> What, is that the real DMM?
22:20:28 <Gregor> elliott: That reference makes me cry
22:20:40 <elliott> `logurl 2005-06-09.txt:10:12:12:
22:20:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2005-06-09
22:20:46 <Gregor> elliott: <HackEgo> 2011-03-09.txt:03:03:48: <elliott> Gregor: nearbyint@libc.so
22:20:57 <elliott> wow, it's real DMM :DDDDDDDDddddddddddddddddddddddd
22:21:56 <elliott> 11:14:47: <DMM> I got some TV to watch... later guys
22:22:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: patselogs: not found
22:22:10 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: oh my god wiki drama
22:22:10 <elliott> 23:27:51: <calamari> graue: your vision of the wiki is a bit narrower than I'd hoped for
22:22:11 <elliott> 23:28:28: <calamari> I'm halfway wondering if you'll be pulling up those in-progress pages at any moment
22:22:11 <elliott> 23:30:29: <calamari> now I realize it's your wiki, you're running it, and all that.. which I appreciate.. but perhaps if you're going to stifle the expressive purposes of the wiki we need to abandon your stranglehold and start a new wiki elsewhere
22:22:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18293
22:22:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2363
22:22:49 <elliott> THREE MONTHS OF SPORADIC DMM
22:22:57 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Erm, it's never been "his approval".
22:23:04 <elliott> It's always been "consensus".
22:23:34 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Also calamari said that just because of
22:23:34 <elliott> 23:26:11: <calamari> graue: I'd really like to integrate EsoShell into the wiki. Would you like to work on it with me?
22:23:34 <elliott> 23:26:49: <graue> i'd rather not have executable code running out of the wiki
22:23:34 <elliott> 23:26:56: <graue> it's for information, not running programs
22:23:49 <elliott> It is hilarious. I have a policy that this is hilarious.
22:25:54 <Patashu> I love the idea of going to a page for an esolang and at the bottom is a console. "Try writing XXX language now!"
22:26:08 <monqy> hm did anything happen to the learn db
22:26:15 <elliott> it would be a good way to find esolangs that are far too easy to be should exist
22:26:21 <elliott> monqy: i wrote a better one but gregor woudln't ;__;
22:26:31 <monqy> why did it need this
22:26:46 <elliott> but ok i will write one that is
22:29:24 <monqy> for multiple definitions you could stuff them into a listy thing and on requesting entry without being explicit as to which one it would display the first one. on displaying entry it says the entry number and the number of entries?? perhaps an special entry identifier for random entry, too?? perhapS???
22:29:43 <Gregor> Multiple entries is just a terrible idea :P
22:30:05 <monqy> how is it a bad idea
22:30:12 <Lymee> `paste /hackenv/bin/learn
22:30:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30666
22:30:16 <Gregor> monqy: Complexity cost huge, benefit tiny.
22:30:23 <monqy> how is the benefit tiny
22:30:38 <Gregor> Who the hell needs multiple definitions? Think wiki, not ... whatever the hell you're thinking.
22:30:44 <elliott> Gregor: Complexity cost huge? Dude, my scripts were like ten lines.
22:30:50 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31091 \ cat: learnt: No such file or directory
22:30:52 <elliott> You have clearly never used a proper learndb :P
22:30:53 <Gregor> elliott: Use, not code.
22:30:56 <HackEgo> Lymee \ addquote \ allquotes \ botsnack \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ elliott \ esolang \ etymology \ fuck \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learnt \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ penis \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote \ quotes \ rec
22:31:03 <elliott> Gregor: No... it was three commands.
22:31:04 <monqy> learning multiple things is very important!!!
22:31:17 <Gregor> elliott: Yes, because it would presumably barf out every definition every time.
22:31:20 <lambdabot> where provides: where url what where+
22:31:21 <elliott> `run rm bin/Lymee bin/learnt
22:31:28 <HackEgo> cat: bin/Lymee: No such file or directory
22:31:29 <elliott> Gregor: Yes, which if you actually bothered to rate-limit properly would be fine :P
22:31:36 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19221 \ cat: bin/lymee: No such file or directory
22:31:38 <elliott> I'm trying to add new scripts.
22:31:48 <Gregor> elliott: Having a bot that runs FUCKING ARBITRARY commands be able to output more than one per one is the
22:31:54 <Lymee> `paste bin/elliott
22:31:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28307
22:32:07 <elliott> "What is rate limiting, also what is maximum lines of output" --Gregor
22:32:16 <monqy> you dont have to make it barf them all out....would that make it too complicated to use.....(hint: no)
22:32:16 <Gregor> I have a rate limit, and a maximum.
22:32:19 <Gregor> The rate limit is one per one.
22:32:33 <Gregor> Your ideas. They are fucking terrible.
22:32:43 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/QFPP
22:32:45 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:32:45 URL:http://sprunge.us/QFPP [97] -> "QFPP" [1]
22:32:51 <elliott> `run mv QFPP bin/'?'; chmod +x bin/'?'
22:33:17 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/OIib
22:33:18 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:33:18 URL:http://sprunge.us/OIib [173] -> "OIib" [1]
22:33:18 <Gregor> lol, greatest output ever
22:33:25 <elliott> `run mv OIib bin/learn; chmod +x bin/learn
22:33:37 <HackEgo> http://#!/bin/sh: Invalid host name.
22:33:43 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/fgdX
22:33:44 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:33:44 URL:http://sprunge.us/fgdX [25] -> "fgdX" [1]
22:33:48 -!- sllide has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:33:48 <elliott> `run mv fgdX bin/forget; chmod +x bin/forget
22:34:02 <elliott> `learn Gregor is the stupidest stupid.
22:34:04 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 7: learn/Gregor: No such file or directory
22:34:16 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access learn: No such file or directory
22:34:17 <monqy> "the stupidest stupid"
22:34:26 <elliott> `learn Gregor is the stupidest stupid.
22:34:28 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 7: learn/Gregor: No such file or directory
22:34:51 <elliott> `learn Gregor is the stupidest stupid.
22:34:53 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 7: learn/Gregor: No such file or directory
22:35:17 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access learn: No such file or directory
22:35:22 <monqy> what is learn doimg....
22:35:35 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
22:35:46 <Gregor> elliott: It doesn't remember empty directories.
22:36:03 <Gregor> elliott: lol@virtually every VCS in existence?
22:36:11 <elliott> darcs gets it right, for one.
22:36:16 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: FireFly).
22:36:32 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, the only VCSes taht don't are git and hg :P
22:36:35 <elliott> I think bzr gets it right as well.
22:36:48 <monqy> git and hg are virtually every vcs in existence
22:36:54 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/learn/wisdom/g' bin/learn; sed -i 's/learn/wisdom/g' bin/'?'; sed -i 's/learn/wisdom/g' bin/forget
22:36:57 <Gregor> It's been too long since I've used bzr to corroborate *shrugs*
22:37:08 <elliott> `run mkdir wisdom; echo "is a big stupid stupid." >wisdom/Gregor
22:37:24 <Gregor> Oh good, so now you can't just say the name ...
22:37:33 <elliott> Gregor: Yes, because that was terrible :P
22:37:39 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/?
22:37:45 <Gregor> Well, I'll admit that having it get in the way of cat was kinda bad.
22:37:50 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25292
22:37:50 <Gregor> And that URL ain't gonna work at all X-D
22:38:19 <elliott> Am I misunderstanding what -e does? :P
22:38:55 <monqy> `cat wisdom/Gregor
22:39:18 <Gregor> `run [ -e wisdom/Gregor ] && echo hewoo
22:39:25 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:22:39:22: <Phantom_Hoover> `log wisdom
22:39:42 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/.: Is a directory \ .
22:40:04 <HackEgo> ../bin/? #!/bin/sh \ [ -e "wisdom/$1" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ echo "$1 $(cat "wisdom/$1")"
22:40:14 <HackEgo> Gregor is a big stupid stupid.
22:40:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1494
22:40:32 <elliott> Time to start documenting the masses
22:40:44 <Gregor> `learn Gregor Wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:40:55 <elliott> Following `learn is a full sentence.
22:41:14 <elliott> topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//')
22:41:14 <elliott> info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/.* //')
22:41:17 <elliott> OK sed-experts, help me out here :P
22:41:28 <Gregor> info removes everything before the last space there.
22:41:42 <elliott> How can I make it be tighter >_>
22:41:57 <Gregor> Yeah, as far as I know there's no non-greedy modifier for sed.
22:42:03 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/ECNd
22:42:04 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:42:04 URL:http://sprunge.us/ECNd [178] -> "ECNd" [1]
22:42:08 <elliott> `run mv ECNd bin/learn; chmod +x bin/learn
22:42:15 <elliott> `learn Gregor wrote the bot, which is why he's terrible.
22:42:20 <HackEgo> Gregor wrote the bot, which is why he's terrible.
22:42:25 <Gregor> "No output" isn't the ideal output :P
22:42:34 <elliott> OK FINE TIME FOR SOME MEGA OUTPUT
22:42:50 <Gregor> How about "Filling me with your knowledge gives me a sexual kind of pleasure."
22:43:01 * Phantom_Hoover wonders how Transmission concludes, from a rate of consistently between 50 and 100 KiB/s, that it will take twelve hours to torrent 3GB.
22:43:33 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/aJVh
22:43:33 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:43:33 URL:http://sprunge.us/aJVh [198] -> "aJVh" [1]
22:43:39 <elliott> `run mv aJVh bin/learn; chmod +x bin/learn
22:43:48 <elliott> `run echo 'echo "Forget what?"' >>bin/forget
22:43:58 <Gregor> `learn Gregor Wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:44:15 <Gregor> `learn Gregor Wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:44:17 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/learn: line 7: wisdom/Gregor: No such file or directory \ I knew that.
22:44:48 <elliott> `run mkdir wisdom; echo "You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry." >wisdom/.doorstop
22:44:55 <HackEgo> .doorstop You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry.
22:45:00 <Gregor> `learn Gregor Wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:45:04 <elliott> `run mkdir wisdom; echo "is -- You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry." >wisdom/.doorstop
22:45:05 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `wisdom': File exists
22:45:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit, computers, stop being better than me at arithmetic.
22:45:13 <HackEgo> .doorstop is -- You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry.
22:45:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:45:20 <HackEgo> Gregor Wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:45:25 <elliott> You need to de-capitalise that w >_>
22:45:27 <Gregor> `learn Gregor wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:45:32 <HackEgo> Gregor wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:45:49 <Gregor> Now just to configure the bot to make that file unwritable :P
22:45:50 <elliott> I'm going to make it de-capitalise the queries
22:47:59 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/IWUd
22:48:00 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:48:00 URL:http://sprunge.us/IWUd [126] -> "IWUd" [1]
22:48:14 <elliott> `run mv IWUd bin/'?'; chmod +x bin/'?'
22:48:21 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/HggH
22:48:22 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:48:22 URL:http://sprunge.us/HggH [250] -> "HggH" [1]
22:48:27 <elliott> `run mv HggH bin/learn; chmod +x bin/learn
22:48:42 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/LYaH
22:48:43 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:48:43 URL:http://sprunge.us/LYaH [69] -> "LYaH" [1]
22:48:44 <elliott> (learn you a haskell :DDddd)
22:48:50 <elliott> `run mv LYaH bin/forget; chmod +x bin/forget
22:49:09 <elliott> `run mkdir wisdom; echo "You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry." >wisdom/.doorstop
22:49:36 <HackEgo> You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry.
22:50:08 <Gregor> `learn Gregor wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:50:18 <HackEgo> Gregor wrote the bot. Better than you. For most values of "you".
22:50:20 <Lymee> `paste /hackenv/bin/?
22:50:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6482
22:50:53 <elliott> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' >bin/pastewisdom; echo 'cat wisdom/* | paste' >>bin/pastewisdom; chmod +x bin/pastewisdom
22:51:00 <Gregor> `learn Wiki , the, is at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Main_Page
22:51:20 <elliott> `fetch http://sprunge.us/XAGK
22:51:21 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14 22:51:21 URL:http://sprunge.us/XAGK [143] -> "XAGK" [1]
22:51:26 <elliott> `run mv XAGK bin/learn; chmod +X bin/learn
22:51:39 <elliott> Don't really want topics with spaces.
22:51:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27806
22:51:56 <elliott> Gregor: You can do that without the space after the comma btw.
22:52:07 <Gregor> "before" I assume you mean?
22:52:13 <Gregor> So it only accepts alpha(num)?
22:52:20 <elliott> `run echo "The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki" >wisdom/wiki
22:52:26 <HackEgo> The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki
22:53:12 <elliott> OK, now to fill this thing with correct opinions :P
22:53:20 <Lymee> `mv /hackenv/bin/forget /hackenv/bin/forget_
22:53:21 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `/hackenv/bin/forget /hackenv/bin/forget_' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
22:53:29 <elliott> Lymee: Being annoying =/= being funny/amusing/etc.
22:53:33 <Lymee> `run mv /hackenv/bin/forget /hackenv/bin/forget_
22:53:39 <Lymee> `run mv /hackenv/bin/learn /hackenv/bin/forget
22:53:44 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
22:53:47 <Lymee> `run mv /hackenv/bin/forget_ /hackenv/bin/learn
22:53:49 <elliott> Gregor: Can you please make the bots ignore Lymee?
22:53:56 <elliott> She hasn't run a productive command in the last... uh, ever.
22:53:59 <monqy> Lymee: wahy are you dOING that
22:54:25 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:WLaquitaCuevasa
22:54:49 <elliott> However, some builders of Python and other languages disrespect PHP developers and deal with us like children of a lesser God. I have previously witnessed some Python developers particularly engaging in dislike speech towards PHP builders, in all probability because they do not have an understanding of why PHP received so well-known.
22:55:41 <HackEgo> 2008-06-30.txt:20:50:03: <ais523> I like the international hub topic
22:55:49 <HackEgo> 2007-07-16.txt:22:36:21: <oklopol> The international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | FORUM AND WIKI: http://esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | PASTEBIN: http://pastebin.ca
22:55:51 <Gregor> SO DO I, AIS OF THE PAST! SO DO I!
22:56:11 <elliott> `learn Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:56:13 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/learn: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/learn: cannot execute: Success
22:56:24 <elliott> Lymee: You get to fix whatever you fucked up.
22:56:25 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
22:56:38 <Lymee> `run chmod +x /usr/bin/learn
22:56:40 <HackEgo> chmod: cannot access `/usr/bin/learn': No such file or directory
22:56:40 <Lymee> `run chmod +x /usr/bin/forget
22:56:41 <elliott> Gregor: I bet `revert doesn't manage permissions somehow.
22:56:42 <HackEgo> chmod: cannot access `/usr/bin/forget': No such file or directory
22:56:47 <Lymee> `run chmod +x /hackenv/bin/forget
22:56:49 <Lymee> `run chmod +x /hackenv/bin/learn
22:56:56 <elliott> `learn Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:56:58 <Gregor> elliott: It ought to >_>
22:57:04 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:57:12 <elliott> The newbie experience has been revolutionised
22:57:22 <elliott> Mere characters are all that is necessary to induct them into the channel
22:57:31 <elliott> Gone are the days of verbose explanation of the channel's purpose
22:57:40 <elliott> HERE AGAIN ARE THE DAYS OF THE INTERNATIONAL HUB!
22:58:32 <elliott> monqy: ask HackEgo what friendship is
22:59:57 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z) \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic" \
23:00:15 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastenquotes
23:00:38 <elliott> `learn qdb is used like: `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also qdbformat
23:01:29 <elliott> `learn qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
23:01:30 <itidus20> `learn Esoteric is an abbreviation for Esoteric Programming Languages as contrasted with Esoteric languages such as lojban and klingon and contrasted with the occult, however those topics may well be compatible with each other .. according to itidus20
23:01:52 <HackEgo> qdb is used like: `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also qdbformat
23:01:56 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
23:04:34 <Gregor> `learn HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
23:04:47 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
23:04:52 <Gregor> elliott: THEY ARE LIES
23:05:14 <Gregor> `run mv wisdom/HackEgo, wisdom/HackEgo
23:05:16 <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `wisdom/HackEgo,': No such file or directory
23:05:18 <monqy> `mv wisdom/hackego, wisdom/hackego
23:05:20 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `wisdom/hackego, wisdom/hackego' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
23:05:39 <Gregor> `run mv wisdom/hackego',' wisdom/hackego
23:06:06 <monqy> maybe `learn should handle comas..
23:06:47 <Gregor> elliott SAID that it does :P
23:07:15 <elliott> Gregor: i did not say that
23:07:32 <HackEgo> 2010-10-28.txt:20:41:05: <Vorpal> elliott, -b and -m iirc
23:07:51 <Gregor> <elliott> Gregor: You can do that without the space after the comma btw. <Gregor> "before" I assume you mean? <Gregor> So it only accepts alpha(num)? // I just assumed you meant "before" because "after" made no sense at all.
23:08:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:08:33 <Gregor> `learn elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
23:09:04 <elliott> HackEgo: literally my only achievement.
23:09:12 <elliott> 05:31:08: <Tefad> i dislike the presence of chanserv btw
23:09:12 <elliott> 05:31:12: <Tefad> there's no point
23:09:12 <elliott> 05:31:28: <Tefad> and it just gives them means to peak at our conversation if they so choose
23:09:12 <elliott> 05:31:52: <Tefad> unless clog is a logger to a webpage
23:09:15 <elliott> 05:31:59: * Tefad stabs violently
23:09:17 <elliott> 05:32:31: -!- Tefad has parted #esoteric (?).
23:11:08 <elliott> i like how he thinks freenode couldn't peek at convos without chanserv
23:12:52 <elliott> calamari rising up against the graue tyranny because his java applet will be ONE PAGE AWAY because graue doesn't want to embed java applets on the wiki
23:13:38 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:15:45 <HackEgo> 2007-07-06.txt:13:44:44: <oklopol> can applets be run without a browser? (:P)
23:15:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32098
23:16:05 <elliott> lmao never came back after discoevring clog
23:16:14 <elliott> omg but is on freenode now must resist
23:16:52 <itidus20> @oklopol: yes they can there is some applet player program
23:17:50 <HackEgo> 2011-01-15.txt:00:14:10: <fizzie> oklopol: And then there was the water thing.
23:18:09 <HackEgo> 2008-01-03.txt:21:34:47: <oklopol> oh holland, you crack me up!
23:19:26 <HackEgo> 2010-09-22.txt:23:01:42: <cheater99> alise: holland is the official name of the netherlands in polish, for example.
23:19:36 <elliott> gotta get the finland theory for learndb
23:19:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3700
23:20:01 <elliott> 2003-09-08.txt:13:17:43: <Verbed> ~awaken The Russian Federation is by far the largest country of the world in area by spanning 11 time zones in both Europe and Asia. Russia shares borders with the following countries (starting in the north and in counter-clockwise order): Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania (via Kaliningrad Oblast), Poland (idem), Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhs
23:20:01 <elliott> tan, China, Mongolia and North Korea.
23:20:01 <elliott> 2003-09-08.txt:13:17:45: <Doppelganger> The Resin Feathered is by for the largesse country of the world in are by spinning 11 tone zoans in but Erebia and As. Rise swoors brother what they flummoxed country (starting in to north and in contrescene order: Near, Finlandia, Extend, Latvia, Bowler's, Letdown (via Killmaimthem Obligation, Plenty (idem), Ukraine, Grace, Acorpolous, Kissykissy, Come, Monosyll
23:20:28 <monqy> `log finland theory
23:20:31 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:23:20:28: <monqy> `log finland theory
23:21:21 <elliott> 2008-08-31.txt:14:55:26: <Corun> There's only like 2 people in finland right?
23:23:20 <elliott> `learn Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least five of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus.
23:23:55 <elliott> shachaf: That's what they all say.
23:24:03 <shachaf> elliott: I've spent two weeks of my life there.
23:24:52 <elliott> shachaf: Write your one-line biography.
23:25:13 <elliott> `learn shachaf refuses to be biographed.
23:25:20 <monqy> I was just about to do that exact same thing
23:25:31 <elliott> unlearn is quite obsolete :P
23:25:39 <oerjan> `learn Vorpal går aldrig på biografen.
23:25:45 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:25:51 <elliott> There's a command to do it but you don't know what it is.
23:25:57 <HackEgo> babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ canary \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ test.c \ test2.c \ test3.c \ tmp.tmp \ wisdom
23:26:01 <HackEgo> ? \ addquote \ allquotes \ botsnack \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ elliott \ esolang \ etymology \ forget \ fuck \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learn \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ penis \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote
23:26:02 <elliott> `learn Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea.
23:26:16 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/--help': No such file or directory \ Forget what?
23:26:23 <elliott> `learn shachaf refuses to be biographed.
23:26:37 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env learnt \ elliott = Ignore this loser.
23:26:43 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/env: learnt: No such file or directory
23:26:47 <elliott> Damn these old things hanging around :P
23:26:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/minifind
23:27:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: elliott: not found
23:27:18 <HackEgo> ? \ addquote \ allquotes \ botsnack \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ esolang \ etymology \ forget \ fuck \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learn \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ penis \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote \ quotes
23:28:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: marco: not found
23:28:13 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:28:28 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
23:28:30 <shachaf> elliott: Aw, I didn't really rm it.
23:28:31 <elliott> shachaf: Observe last two sentences.
23:28:45 <elliott> `learn Haskell is preferred by 9 out of 10 esoteric programmers. Ask your GP today! http://learnyouahaskell.com/
23:28:53 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9171
23:28:56 <shachaf> elliott: I had previously mved bin .bin
23:29:14 <elliott> shachaf: So http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ shows.
23:29:39 <HackEgo> sh: killall: command not found
23:30:16 <Lymee> `run ls -al | grep bin
23:30:18 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Sep 14 23:30 bin
23:30:37 <shachaf> i heard u mad, so i put all the things in your things so u can mad while u mad?
23:30:44 <elliott> `learn shachaf heard u mad, so i put all the things in your things so u can mad while u mad?
23:30:56 <monqy> no no no no no non on ononn ;_____________________;
23:31:01 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:31:04 <elliott> now anyone who wants to know about shachaf
23:31:05 <HackEgo> cat: /etc/shadow: No such file or directory
23:31:14 -!- DH____ has joined.
23:31:27 <elliott> `learn shachaf heard u mad, so i put all the things in your things so u can mad while u mad?
23:31:35 <elliott> shachaf: I have won botwars lasting whole days.
23:31:39 <elliott> `learn shachaf heard u mad, so i put all the things in your things so u can mad while u mad?
23:31:49 <monqy> shachaf: this is all your fault
23:32:08 <oerjan> `learn shachaf is the one whose fault this all is.
23:32:40 <elliott> `learn oerjan is just zis guy, you know?
23:33:13 <shachaf> Why can't you chmod +x things?
23:33:26 <Gregor> `learn C is the language of choice for sexy, intelligent esolangers.
23:33:33 <shachaf> elliott: No, my echo got messed up.
23:33:47 <elliott> `learn C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
23:33:53 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove root directory `/'
23:33:55 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
23:34:01 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove directory `/hackenv': Permission denied
23:34:03 <oerjan> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa fungot!!!
23:34:06 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:34:08 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove directory `.' \ rm: cannot remove directory `..'
23:35:25 <shachaf> @@ (@admin + elliott) (@admin - elliott)
23:35:25 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Privledged commands cannot be composed
23:35:31 <oerjan> `learn INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market.
23:35:41 <HackEgo> babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ canary \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ test.c \ test2.c \ test3.c \ tmp.tmp \ wisdom
23:35:50 <Gregor> elliott: Note the files in the root thar
23:36:01 <shachaf> elliott: You're not very good at this.
23:36:07 <Gregor> elliott: Note a particular, unusually-named file.
23:36:24 <Gregor> elliott: Simplest way to avoid the stupidest offenders.
23:37:23 <elliott> So is dons an admin of lambdabot these days
23:37:37 <elliott> YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
23:38:02 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
23:38:05 <shachaf> Vixen got taken out of lambdabot.
23:38:12 <lambdabot> Government enterprise is the most inefficient and costly way of producing jobs.
23:38:14 <shachaf> elliott: You're not *actually* an admin, by the way.
23:38:14 <lambdabot> I reject the cynical view that politics is a dirty business.
23:38:35 <elliott> Gregor: butsrs what's minifin
23:38:48 <HackEgo> ./babies/babies.db \ ./bin/? \ ./bin/addquote \ ./bin/allquotes \ ./bin/botsnack \ ./bin/calc \ ./bin/commands \ ./bin/creatures \ ./bin/define \ ./bin/delquote \ ./bin/esolang \ ./bin/etymology \ ./bin/forget \ ./bin/fuck \ ./bin/google \ ./bin/imdb \ ./bin/json \ ./bin/k \ ./bin/karma \ ./bin/learn \ ./bin/log \ ./bin/logurl
23:38:59 <Gregor> elliott: It's find. Only stupid.
23:39:09 <shachaf> I guess neither of us is an admin.
23:39:31 <elliott> But seriously, why vixen rip.
23:39:39 <Lymee> elliott has dethroned shachaf
23:39:42 <Gregor> elliott: I don't rightly recall.
23:40:02 <elliott> shachaf: But srsly, how am I not an admi- feck
23:40:06 -!- elliott has changed nick to dons.
23:40:08 <dons> @admin + elliott
23:40:11 -!- dons has changed nick to elliott.
23:41:56 <Gregor> elliott: HALP I'm out of Danger Mouse D-8
23:42:06 <elliott> consume lal the dangermouse
23:42:24 <Gregor> Only "lal" the available.
23:42:42 <Gregor> PLUS all the Danger Mouse rule 34 fanfic on the web.
23:43:49 <shachaf> I need to add some sort of randomized positive reinforcement.
23:44:13 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | tr A-Z a-z) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." \
23:44:25 <HackEgo> c \ elliott \ esoteric \ finland \ friendship \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ intercal \ monqy \ oerjan \ qdb \ qdbformat \ shachaf \ vorpal \ welcome \ wiki
23:44:40 <HackEgo> bin/?:[ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ bin/?:cat "wisdom/$topic" \ bin/forget:rm "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" \ bin/learn:echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ bin/pastewisdom:cat wisdom/* | paste
23:44:49 <HackEgo> bin/? \ bin/forget \ bin/learn \ bin/pastewisdom
23:45:13 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
23:45:28 <shachaf> #nethack's learndb is better.
23:45:49 <elliott> shachaf: Gregor wouldn't add new message hooks.
23:46:00 <Gregor> I didn't say I wouldn't add new message hooks.
23:46:05 <Gregor> I said I wouldn't add multi-line output.
23:46:11 <Gregor> I could be persuaded to add new message hooks.
23:46:16 <elliott> `learn elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
23:46:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z) \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic" \
23:47:27 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:47:34 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/?
23:48:12 <HackEgo> . \ .. \ babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ canary \ env \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ test.c \ test2.c \ test3.c \ tmp.tmp \ wisdom
23:48:27 <HackEgo> PLASH_FAKE_GID=0 \ CONSOLE=/dev/console \ TERM=linux \ SHELL=/bin/sh \ IRC_SOCK=/tmp/multibot.HackEgo \ rootmnt=/root \ IRC_NICK=Lymia \ PLASH_CAPS=conn_maker;fs_op \ PLASH_FAKE_EUID=5000 \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib \ INIT_VERSION=sysvinit-2.88 \ init=/sbin/init \ HACKENV=/tmp/hackenv.10379
23:48:36 <elliott> Gregor: Still got plash stuff set?
23:48:38 <HackEgo> sh: ./quine.pl: Permission denied
23:48:41 <HackEgo> babies/ \ bin/ \ bluhbluh \ canary \ env \ foo \ paste/ \ ps \ quine.pl \ quine2.pl \ quine3.pl \ quotes \ quotese \ tekst \ test.c \ test2.c \ test3.c \ tmp.tmp* \ wisdom/
23:48:50 <Gregor> elliott: That's just a file that's been sitting there, probably for months :P
23:49:23 <HackEgo> babies \ bin \ bluhbluh \ canary \ foo \ paste \ ps \ quotes \ tmp.tmp \ wisdom
23:49:30 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `babies': Is a directory
23:49:38 <Gregor> I'll break YOUR babies.
23:49:43 <elliott> `run rm -r babies bin/fuck bluhbluh foo paste ps tmp.tmp
23:49:45 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `foo': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `tmp.tmp': No such file or directory
23:49:48 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ quotes \ wisdom
23:49:54 <HackEgo> ? \ addquote \ allquotes \ botsnack \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ esolang \ etymology \ forget \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learn \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ penis \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote \ quotes \ rec
23:49:57 <shachaf> elliott: wats the best monad
23:50:09 <HackEgo> 293) <elliott> Deewiant: ha, you were wrong, I have stacks, fungespace and MULTIPLE functions! <elliott> and a monad! <elliott> nothing can stop me now! \ 478) <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. \ 649) <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Sort of
23:50:16 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:50:17 <elliott> 478 is still one of the best quotes ever.
23:50:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3585
23:50:27 <HackEgo> 478) <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life.
23:50:35 <HackEgo> 663) <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearranging and randomizing vital internal structure? <Gregor> Monads are like that, only worse.
23:50:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ echo "I'm a program. I don't /have/ genitals."
23:50:59 <elliott> `run rm bin/{penis,vagina}
23:51:07 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access rec: No such file or directory
23:51:10 <HackEgo> ? \ addquote \ allquotes \ botsnack \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ esolang \ etymology \ forget \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learn \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runasperl
23:51:11 <shachaf> #haskell-blah informs me that jQuery is the best monad.
23:51:22 <elliott> Gregor: Does etymology work btw? :p
23:51:26 <HackEgo> \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck' \ Alert!: Unable to access document. \ \ lynx: Can't access startfile
23:51:27 <Gregor> elliott: Idonno, I didn't make it.
23:51:36 <HackEgo> etymology \ late 14c., ethimolegia "facts of the origin and development of a word," from O.Fr. et(h)imologie (14c., Mod.Fr. tymologie), from L. etymologia, from Gk. etymologia, properly "study of the true sense (of a word)," from etymon "true sense" (neut. of etymos "true, real, actual," related to eteos "true") +
23:51:47 <HackEgo> ? \ addquote \ allquotes \ botsnack \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ esolang \ etymology \ forget \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learn \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runasperl
23:51:52 <elliott> Just doin' housecleaning :P
23:51:57 <monqy> `cat bin/runasperl
23:51:58 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ echo 'OH BARF >XO'
23:52:11 <elliott> `run rm bin/botsnack bin/runasperl
23:52:14 <elliott> TODO: Think of a better botsnack.
23:52:23 <HackEgo> walnut \ O.E. walhnutu "nut of the walnut tree," lit. "foreign nut," from wealh "foreign" (see Welsh) + hnutu (see nut). Cf. O.N. valhnot, M.L.G. walnut, M.Du. walnote, Du. walnoot, Ger. Walnu, So called because it was introduced from Gaul and Italy, distinguishing it from the native hazel nut. Cf. the L.L. name for it,
23:52:24 <HackEgo> ? \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ commands \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learn \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runfor \ rungcc \ say \ sayhi
23:52:33 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ cd `dirname "$0"` \ ls -m
23:52:35 -!- tiffnya has changed nick to tiffany.
23:52:37 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var
23:52:41 <HackEgo> ?, addquote, allquotes, calc, commands, creatures, define, delquote, etymology, \ forget, google, imdb, json, k, karma, learn, log, logurl, marco, minifind, \ paste, pastelog, pastelogs, pastenquotes, pastequotes, pastewisdom, ping, \ prefixes, quine, quote, quotes, roll, runfor, rungcc, say, sayhi, strfile, \ swedish, toutf8,
23:52:43 <HackEgo> . \ .. \ bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var
23:52:52 <tiffany> I just noticed someone's been using my nick :I
23:52:55 <shachaf> Hmm, how would you add things to bashrc?
23:52:59 <elliott> `run sed -i s'/-m/-m | tr -d '\n'/' bin/commands
23:53:03 <HackEgo> ?, addquote, allquotes, calc, commads, creatures, defie, delquote, etymology, \ forget, google, imdb, jso, k, karma, lear, log, logurl, marco, miifid, \ paste, pastelog, pastelogs, pastequotes, pastequotes, pastewisdom, pig, \ prefixes, quie, quote, quotes, roll, rufor, rugcc, say, sayhi, strfile, \ swedish, toutf8, traslate,
23:53:04 <Gregor> shachaf: You wouldn't.
23:53:11 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ cd `dirname "$0"` \ ls -m | tr -d n
23:53:14 <elliott> `run sed -i s'/-m/-m | tr -d '\\n'/' bin/commands
23:53:17 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ cd `dirname "$0"` \ ls -m | tr -d n
23:53:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ cd `dirname "$0"` \ ls -m | tr -d \ | tr -d n
23:53:30 <elliott> ls bin works juuust fine :P
23:53:32 <HackEgo> ? \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ creatures \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ google \ imdb \ json \ k \ karma \ learn \ log \ logurl \ marco \ minifind \ paste \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ quine \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runfor \ rungcc \ say \ sayhi \ strfile
23:53:39 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$2" ] \ then \ echo 'Use: runfor <time> <command>' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ TIME="$1" \ shift \ \ "$@" & \ sleep $(( TIME + 0 )) \ kill -9 %1
23:53:46 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31636
23:54:06 <elliott> Gregor: When do we even GET this crap :P
23:54:13 <Gregor> elliott: When you're not looking.
23:54:15 <HackEgo> Usage: chsh [options] [LOGIN] \ \ Options: \ -h, --help display this help message and exit \ -s, --shell SHELL new login shell for the user account \
23:54:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ echo "why $1 is like wtf"
23:54:19 <elliott> `run rm bin/say{,hi} bin/twat
23:54:21 <Gregor> shachaf: tmp is not preserved between commands.
23:54:29 <HackEgo> whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000
23:54:34 <HackEgo> cat: bin/twat: No such file or directory
23:54:36 <HackEgo> \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://imdb.com/find?q=%74%68%65%20%72%6f%6f%6d' \ Alert!: Unable to access document. \ \ lynx: Can't access startfile
23:54:40 <HackEgo> 2007-12-11.txt:20:11:34: <oerjan> ELIZA: Gak fnord bezeekel ash fnebby.
23:54:46 <tiffany> what happens if I `cat /usr/share/dict/words
23:54:58 <Gregor> tiffany: Nothing very interesting.
23:55:02 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$2" ] \ then \ echo 'Use: runfor <time> <command>' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ TIME="$1" \ shift \ \ "$@" & \ sleep $(( TIME + 0 )) \ kill -9 %1
23:55:09 <shachaf> `run echo 'echo -ne a' > bin/.bashrc
23:55:17 <HackEgo> bin/runfor: echo 'Use: runfor <time> <command>'
23:55:27 <HackEgo> cat: bin/rungc: No such file or directory
23:55:28 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env bash \ name=$(mktemp) \ tail -n +1 "$1" | gcc -x c -w -O2 -std=gnu99 /dev/stdin -o "$name" || exit $? \ shift \ "$name" "$@"; st=$? \ rm -f "$name" 2>/dev/null \ exit $? \
23:55:30 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
23:55:34 <HackEgo> cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory
23:55:39 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ echo "$1" | /usr/games/chef
23:55:44 <elliott> `run echo 'int main(){printf("hi\n");}' | rungcc
23:55:47 <HackEgo> tail: cannot open `' for reading: No such file or directory \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.3.2/../../../../lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
23:55:58 <monqy> `swedish this is a good command
23:55:59 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/swedish: line 2: /usr/games/chef: No such file or directory
23:56:11 <Gregor> elliott: Don't ask me X-D
23:56:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20134
23:57:05 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ WA='http://www24.wolframalpha.com' \ \ dowget() { \ wget -U "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US; rv:1.9.0.11) Gecko/2009060214 Firefox/3.0.11" "$@" \ return "$?" \ } \ \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Look up what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr "
23:57:07 <HackEgo> grep: karma: No such file or directory
23:57:12 <itidus20> `learn Strfile has a mysterious purpose.
23:57:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/karma
23:57:20 <elliott> I know what strfile does :P
23:57:27 <elliott> I'll implement a proper karma system
23:57:31 <shachaf> This channel is too crowded.
23:57:38 <shachaf> Also, everyone in here is mad.
23:57:39 <Gregor> shachaf: Only when people go into botnonsense mode.
23:57:40 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Look up what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/'"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 100 'Jump to:' | \ tail -n +3 | \ sed 's/ */ /g'
23:57:47 <elliott> ...yeah, so useful and borken.
23:57:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:57:51 <shachaf> Can all y'all get out of bot nonsense mode?
23:57:54 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Calculate what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q='"$QUERY" | \ grep -m 1 '=' | sed 's/ \+/ /g'
23:57:56 <elliott> shachaf: I'm doing HOUSEWORK.
23:57:59 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/python \ import sys \ import chardet \ x = sys.stdin.read() \ enc = chardet.detect(x)['encoding'] \ sys.stdout.write(x.decode(enc).encode('UTF-8'))
23:58:13 <Gregor> shachaf: If HackEgo didn't so desperately need a cleanup, I'd try to put a stop to it :P
23:58:19 <itidus20> `learn Everyone in here is mad.
23:58:25 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27770
23:58:29 <elliott> Gregor: Behold the new, cleaner HackEgo :P
23:58:39 -!- MSleep has joined.
23:58:42 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: saverevision: not found
23:58:47 <Gregor> elliott: It is teh sexy.
23:58:59 <elliott> Pretty sure it was broken anyway.
23:59:02 <shachaf> elliott: I've changed my mind. data Null a = Null is the best monad.
23:59:14 <HackEgo> --2011-09-14 23:58:45-- http://www24.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%39%39 \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... No data received. \ Retrying. \ \ --2011-09-14 23:58:46-- (try: 2) http://www24.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%39%39 \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected.