00:00:29 <oerjan> meanwhile i was absolutely, 100% certified serious.
00:00:33 <pikhq> English: because word formation should be nontrivial.
00:00:52 <Vorpal> when even natives can't figure it out
00:01:20 <Vorpal> pikhq, I mean, as a non-native speaker I expect I wouldn't be good at it. But I find that native speakers are not much better at it than me.
00:01:27 <pikhq> Also, vestigial grammar is fun.
00:01:48 <Vorpal> In Swedish however it is usually quite easy to form new words
00:02:08 <Vorpal> pikhq, what does that mean?
00:02:13 <pikhq> For instance: English features Germanic strong verbs. Barely.
00:02:21 <pikhq> We call them "irregular".
00:02:39 <pikhq> Because there's not many strong verbs left.
00:02:56 <Vorpal> pikhq, they are quite irregular though. There is no pattern to them.
00:03:02 <oerjan> they mostly died during the plague
00:03:21 <CakeProphet> no matter how careful I am. sieges always end in huge clusterfucks.
00:03:30 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, some game?
00:03:36 <pikhq> No, there is a pattern. Due to the infrequency of them, the pattern has ceased to be readily apparent to speakers.
00:03:38 <elliott> CakeProphet: agreed, just ask agora :P
00:03:49 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, easy. Trap defence is best. But also quite boring
00:03:59 <elliott> trap defence doesn't really solve sieges
00:04:03 <Vorpal> pikhq, there must be a lot of variants to the pattern then.
00:04:07 <pikhq> Also, it doesn't help that there's 6 classes of strong verb, each with their own conjugation rules.
00:04:18 <Vorpal> elliott, trap the *entire* maåp
00:04:24 <CakeProphet> what I've been doing at that point is setting up ballistas and killing them from afar
00:04:29 <elliott> CakeProphet: waste of time
00:04:37 <elliott> CakeProphet: just use danger rooms :P
00:04:39 <Vorpal> elliott, no, but the result should be hilarious
00:04:56 <pikhq> Vorpal: It's a feature common to all West Germanic languages, but only really noteworthy historically, and in modern German and Dutch.
00:05:02 <Vorpal> elliott, I actually want to trap the entire border of the map with serrated glass disks or such once.
00:05:22 <elliott> CakeProphet: you're doin it wrong
00:05:23 <pikhq> (it is *not* in Afrikaans)
00:05:29 -!- ive has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
00:05:30 <Vorpal> pikhq, yeah, Swedish have irregular verbs too I think. Can't think of any example atm
00:05:40 <Vorpal> pikhq, why Afrikaans in particular
00:06:08 <CakeProphet> also it seems that no matter how many "hey don't pick shit up orders " I set
00:06:09 <pikhq> Afrikaans has just lost strong verbs.
00:06:14 <CakeProphet> civilians end up swarming onto battlefields
00:06:19 <oerjan> yes, that's what it means
00:06:41 <Vorpal> pikhq, what do you call the craziness with "to be"
00:06:53 <Vorpal> pikhq, am, are, is and so on
00:07:23 <Vorpal> wait what is the third form?
00:07:36 <pikhq> Vorpal: I *think* that's a carry-over from the Scandinavian languages?
00:07:40 -!- tiffany has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:07:41 <pikhq> Erm. North Germanic.
00:07:47 <Vorpal> pikhq, we don't have that these days at least
00:08:02 <Vorpal> pikhq, we just use "är" for first person, second person and so on
00:08:19 <Vorpal> could be we (sensibly) lost that
00:08:25 <oerjan> i believe it was "ek em" in norse. even the icelandic have lost some of it
00:09:28 <CakeProphet> why is it when I try to build things in mass some of it gets suspended.
00:10:10 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, resources needed for other constructions are under a construction that is planned before it
00:10:15 <Vorpal> that suspends for example
00:10:24 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, building is basically a stack
00:10:33 <Vorpal> so start with whatever you want to be built last
00:11:07 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, are there stones under it? that could be used to build different parts of the same wall?
00:11:58 <pikhq> Aaah. Part of it seems to be that English lost almost all of its case system.
00:12:17 <pikhq> (which is now a vestigial feature in its pronouns)
00:12:24 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, idea: wall the entire map, as close to the border as possible. Leave a long trap filled path in to the trading post
00:13:02 <pikhq> Language change does confusing things.
00:13:04 <Vorpal> if hilly terrain: cut off (by deramping) the edge to split it in many sections you can't walk between.
00:13:22 <oerjan> <Vorpal> so start with whatever you want to be built last <-- dwarfs are so logical
00:13:24 <CakeProphet> why do you stupidly rush out into battles.
00:13:33 <elliott> CakeProphet: why is he part of your military
00:13:40 <Vorpal> pikhq,* you still have the s for third persons on verbs. Swedish don't have that at all.
00:14:19 <oerjan> CakeProphet: he got hemorrhoids. really nasty ones.
00:14:22 <CakeProphet> remember how I said civilians keep rushing into battles even though I turn off all the auto-gather stuff?
00:14:30 <Vorpal> I have two persons able to do the manager work. Because the manager goes to sleep when I need him most.
00:15:38 <Vorpal> <oerjan> <Vorpal> so start with whatever you want to be built last <-- dwarfs are so logical <-- it actually makes sense. What if you need to urgently do a construction right now? then if you had a queue you would have to clear it out. With a stack it is easier
00:15:46 <Vorpal> of course a deque would be even better
00:16:29 <olsner> "<oerjan> skrive skrev skrevet" - Skrive wrote the scrotum?
00:16:50 <oerjan> olsner: well yes it's actually ambiguous in norwegian
00:17:44 <olsner> hmm, if that was the way we wrote it, I think it would have a different tone in swedish too
00:18:30 <oerjan> today's wikipedia "In the news" looks strangely synchronistic. four items about people or things coming to an end, followed by an item about a book named "The Sense of an Ending".
00:18:41 <Vorpal> olsner, how could it be a different tone in Swedish? We don't have "skrevet" as ambiguous.
00:19:26 <Vorpal> well I guess it could be a tone of wtfness at that interpretation
00:19:43 <elliott> oerjan: things on the wp main page are rarely coincidences :P
00:19:57 <pikhq> Hrm. "Skrive skrev skrevet" *almost* looks like English nonsense.
00:20:01 <oerjan> elliott: shush you infidel unbeliever
00:20:24 <pikhq> "Skrive skrove skrevets" looks a bit better.
00:20:33 <oerjan> elliott: the coincidence is all those things ending in the same week
00:20:51 <Vorpal> pikhq, are those actual English words?
00:20:53 <olsner> Vorpal: I think 'skrevet' has the different tone already, so it's more like another word spelled the same way would usually have the normal tone
00:21:12 <Vorpal> oerjan, there are 5 things coming to and end. And the book stuck between the last too
00:21:19 <pikhq> Vorpal: But it parses to me as "English sentence composed of 3 words I don't know".
00:21:52 <olsner> ... it's all in the skroving of the skrevets
00:22:07 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
00:22:13 <Vorpal> pikhq, that is almost Swedish, skrov = hull (of a boat)
00:22:24 <Vorpal> skrovet would be "the hull"
00:22:42 <Vorpal> "Skrive" sounds like an Norwegian name
00:22:49 <Vorpal> and "skrevets", well, drop the s
00:22:50 <pikhq_> Also, "Skrive skrove a skrevet" for singular "skrevet".
00:23:11 <Vorpal> pikhq_, à would work I guess.
00:23:47 <Vorpal> or it would for English
00:23:53 <Vorpal> but in the "each" sense
00:23:55 <pikhq_> Yeah, English doesn't really handle singular/plural quite that way...
00:24:33 <Vorpal> pikhq_, just learn Swedish or Norwegian and do Scandinavian nonsense instead :D
00:24:33 <olsner> maybe there are normal skrevets, and special skrove skrevets for skroving... and for some reason the skrove skrevets need skriving
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00:25:14 <oerjan> fru ibsens ripsbusker og andre sjuksköterskar
00:25:17 <pikhq_> olsner: Also possible. But I was interpreting "Skrive" as a name.
00:25:22 <pikhq_> Sure works as an imperative, though.
00:25:23 <CakeProphet> I'm definitely fucked if there's another siege.
00:25:28 <Vorpal> olsner, hm skrovning would work in Swedish. The act of hulling a boat I guess
00:25:51 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:26:03 <Vorpal> oerjan, some form of shrub?
00:26:13 <pikhq_> Oh, better. "Skrive" works just fine as a verb, with past tense "skrove", gerund "skroving".
00:26:20 <oerjan> yes, with red sour berries
00:26:29 <Vorpal> oerjan, I read that as "Lady Ibsen's rip-shrubs and other nurses"
00:26:38 <Vorpal> which doesn't make a whole lot of sense
00:26:43 <pikhq_> So, "Skrive skrove skrevets" would parse as "Hull hulled hulls", I think.
00:26:55 <Vorpal> pikhq_, in which language?
00:27:08 <pikhq_> Vorpal: English with a verb "skrive".
00:27:27 <pikhq_> Which I cannot make myself handle in any way *but* as an "irregular" verb.
00:27:27 <Vorpal> pikhq_, skriv is related to write, skrov is related to hull. So Maybe Write hull writes?
00:27:40 <CakeProphet> elliott: I'm not really sure I get the diagonal flow thing.
00:27:42 <pikhq_> Well, what would make sense for "skrevet"?
00:27:55 <CakeProphet> it just means likee... shift the aquedact diagonally on a horizontal level?
00:28:02 <pikhq_> Vorpal: "Skrove" to me parses as a past tense of "skrive".
00:28:04 <oerjan> Vorpal: it wasn't meant to make sense, it was a norwegian tongue-twister seguing into a swedish one
00:28:08 <Vorpal> pikhq_, well skrevet = the scrotum
00:28:24 <pikhq_> Ah. So, "Write written scrotums"?
00:28:40 <Vorpal> pikhq_, I'm so confused by now. No idea.
00:28:50 <oerjan> pikhq_: skrive is cognate to scribe, i believe
00:29:02 <pikhq_> No, that would be "skrive skriven skrevets"...
00:29:12 <Vorpal> pikhq_, what are you doing?
00:29:24 <pikhq_> Vorpal: Messing around.
00:29:41 <pikhq_> Trying to treat "skrive" as a verb and see what happens.
00:30:24 <Vorpal> pikhq_, yeah, well, I'm not a native speaker. Kind of hard for me to do that in English. And it wouldn't work in Swedish due to the e at the end.
00:30:26 <pikhq_> And finding it interesting that my natural inclination is to go with an irregular conjugation.
00:30:41 <Vorpal> pikhq_, anyway skriva (the Swedish variant) is irregular
00:30:58 <oerjan> Vorpal: vinbär, apparently
00:31:55 <pikhq_> Yup. "skrive" fits the pattern for a class 1 strong verb, hence why I'm treating it that way without thinking about it.
00:32:21 <pikhq_> (other examples in English: "ride/rode/ridden", "write/wrote/written", "shine/shone/shone")
00:33:01 <Vorpal> hm what with the modern ability to record audio and video, do you think that pronunciation will start to change slower in the future?
00:33:35 <Vorpal> pikhq_, so skrive skrove skridden?
00:33:43 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/help.png am I doin' it right?
00:33:54 <pikhq_> "Skrive/skrove/skriven" is how I'm getting it.
00:33:59 <pikhq_> By analogy with "drive/drove/driven".
00:34:05 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, no, the GTK+ theme is the wrong one
00:34:19 <oerjan> Vorpal: im 'spicious u theory
00:34:47 <Vorpal> oerjan, well that is spelling (or lack of it) rather than pronunciation
00:34:50 <elliott> CakeProphet: jiggy is a stupid name
00:34:52 <monqy> diven sounds a bit weird
00:34:56 <Vorpal> oerjan, I specifically asked about pronunciation
00:35:01 <monqy> did som,eone name someone jiggY? that's a bAd name
00:35:07 <CakeProphet> can everyone please stop paying attention to things that aren't related to my question. :P
00:35:36 <CakeProphet> I think by "mess" you mean perfectly organized.
00:35:47 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, also why 3 terminal windows? Have you tried tabs in the terminal emulator?
00:36:08 <elliott> CakeProphet: also, change your name, adam is a stupid name
00:36:36 <monqy> i think it's....okay
00:36:38 <olsner> monqy: could be mari or marie as well
00:36:49 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, is the green one the memory meter?
00:37:10 <monqy> but I trust cakeprophet wouldn't name it mario. that would just be bad.
00:37:11 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:37:13 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you need more RAM. Too much of it used. Unless most is disk cache
00:37:19 <olsner> you seem to be using a gui file manager too, that can't be good
00:37:36 <monqy> 12 hour clock? seriously?
00:37:59 <olsner> CakeProphet: ... you wanted to know whether you were "doing it right", we're answering
00:38:02 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, also wlan? Not ethernet?
00:38:22 <pikhq> All this discussion of English irregular verbs makes me really freaking glad that Japanese is more regular.
00:38:32 -!- numero has joined.
00:38:34 <monqy> good thing im japanese
00:38:40 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, answer: no
00:38:51 <pikhq> monqy: Oh, then you got fucked learning English. Congrats. :P
00:38:53 <Vorpal> what it actually means
00:39:01 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you know, shift-prtscreen would have saved you all this
00:39:24 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, the corridor wideness must be like this
00:39:25 <CakeProphet> but yes, my computer looks different from yours.
00:39:37 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
00:39:54 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, not using monospace font?
00:39:55 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:39:59 <Vorpal> if not then it is your own issue
00:40:15 <CakeProphet> I just don't get what you mean. 1-tile wide?
00:40:28 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, well it must be a proper diagonal. As in 0 tiles wide at the very corner
00:40:58 <CakeProphet> screenshot a designation in df so I can visualize this.
00:41:26 <CakeProphet> I mean I think I get the diagonalness, but...
00:41:34 <Vorpal> no I can't run df on the computer I'm on atm
00:41:42 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you want to cut away the pressure right?
00:42:25 <olsner> most are written in Java? I thought they all used OS/2 and Presentation Manager
00:42:51 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, something like this would work (> is water flow direction, # is solid wall)
00:42:54 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `X'
00:42:54 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `X'
00:42:54 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `X'
00:43:19 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, in the corners
00:43:51 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, there are god damn illustrations at http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Pressure#Diagonal_Flow
00:43:55 <Vorpal> why didn't you look there
00:44:13 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway it would need to be 2 wide I guess
00:44:32 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, there is. But it doesn't block water. Water can flow diagonally
00:44:52 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, same as iirc dwarves can go diagonally. Unless I'm confusing it with nethack
00:45:17 <CakeProphet> also it recommends using one more diagonal than the width of the channel
00:45:23 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway the graphics on screen is only a representation of a complex FSA.
00:45:24 <CakeProphet> I wonder how that works. I guess I just widen it at that segment.
00:45:49 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, it is just that water flows quite slowly through a not very wide one
00:46:01 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, so using a 3 wide like in the picture is faster
00:46:16 <Vorpal> an 1 wide one is going to take bloody ages
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00:49:09 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, maybe you looked at the image but you didn't read
00:49:11 <Vorpal> "Liquids moving via pressure can only move to orthogonally adjacent tiles. When faced with a diagonal gap, pressure will fail to move the liquid, forcing the liquid to instead spread out. By forcing fluids through a diagonal connection you can prevent pressure from propagating past a certain point. "
00:49:14 <CakeProphet> shift+prntscr doesn't seem to create a dialog. does it just copypaste?
00:49:30 <CakeProphet> no I read it I just uh, wasn't understanding it.
00:49:44 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, for me it does the dialogue and just takes the current window
00:49:51 <CakeProphet> I thought it meant if water moved diagonally it magically stopped having pressure, which I'm pretty sure it says.
00:49:52 <Vorpal> maybe it is different in gnome
00:50:03 <CakeProphet> but I was misunderstanding how water flows diagonally.
00:50:16 <Vorpal> I thought it meant if water moved diagonally it magically stopped having pressure, which I'm pretty sure it says. <-- yep
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00:51:10 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/BecauseSomePeopleAreJerks.png
00:51:40 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway with wider than the current corridor it means that the corridor should widen at the point of the diagonal and then go back to the less wide version after
00:51:55 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, but yes that should work, slightly slow though
00:52:00 <CakeProphet> I'm using this as a well so I really think 3-wide is already overkill.
00:52:22 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, remember to have >=2 deep at the point of the well or you will get dirty water
00:52:28 <Vorpal> which cause an unhappy thought
00:52:32 <elliott> CakeProphet: your window buttons are on the wrong side
00:53:01 <elliott> CakeProphet: you shouldn't have window decorations in the first place
00:53:04 <CakeProphet> protip: people like different UI configurations.
00:53:07 <elliott> also, your DF window is the wrong size
00:53:14 -!- cheater has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat).
00:53:14 <Vorpal> they are the wrong colours though
00:53:25 <Vorpal> come on, orange button on dark grey
00:54:02 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, also you have a combat report to read says df. And a sparring report.
00:54:12 <Vorpal> or just of one of them
00:54:23 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, the C and the R on the left side that is
00:54:32 <Vorpal> indicates combat and sparring reports to read
00:54:54 <CakeProphet> moment of truth. time to dig into my cistern.
00:55:35 <CakeProphet> actually wait I'll make a floodgate first.:P
00:55:51 <CakeProphet> though I already have everything closed by doors
00:55:58 <CakeProphet> I just won't be able to fix it if I mess it up.
00:57:31 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, anyway, above-ground fort made out of moulded obsidian is better
00:58:59 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, with underground tunnels to archer towers
01:00:28 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, oh and you should play Kobold Camp
01:01:40 <Vorpal> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70558.0
01:04:51 <CakeProphet> so in the exact same instant that he started tantruming, someone else died. :P
01:05:43 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, you need happier dwarves
01:05:59 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, masterwork engravings in the dining hall
01:06:22 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, adamantine statutes
01:06:33 <Vorpal> you can't go wrong with masterwork adamantine statutes
01:06:45 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, my dwarves party all the time it seems
01:06:52 <Vorpal> CakeProphet, nice bedrooms
01:07:10 <Vorpal> lots of food and booze
01:07:24 <Vorpal> (drop the 6 hour day one)
01:07:45 <Vorpal> (you would end up like Greece)
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01:14:15 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:30:49 <Vorpal> seems like parts of IIS runs in the NT kernel
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02:36:58 <elliott> you could just use a popcap
02:56:32 <CakeProphet> and then people just wander towards the goblin siegers.
03:02:42 <elliott> CakeProphet: Did you set up an alert?
03:04:23 <elliott> Why your troops keep dying.
03:07:36 <CakeProphet> that just fended off a huge swarm of goblins.
03:15:23 <CakeProphet> I think this fortress is likely a lost cause, as the sieges will only get worse.
03:15:59 <elliott> that's the point of a siege
03:17:55 <CakeProphet> so if I kill him they might leave me alone?
03:18:30 <CakeProphet> the master of the goblins is some kind of moose thing.
03:18:50 <CakeProphet> Lomoth Gogoltacnu Sath Ura -- master/Moose Demon Administrator
03:20:03 <CakeProphet> that is the leader of the goblin civilization near me.
03:20:13 <elliott> isn't a thing that happens
03:20:22 <CakeProphet> I haven't done anything extra to this game...
03:20:37 <CakeProphet> I'm not entirely sure I can kill this thing.
03:20:48 <CakeProphet> pretty much every body part he has is either cut open, broken, or gone.
03:21:09 <elliott> do you have any adamantine
03:22:26 <elliott> and screenshot the whole thing
03:23:21 <CakeProphet> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot-Dwarf%20Fortress.png
03:23:36 <CakeProphet> but no he is definitely the leader of the goblin civilization
03:24:02 <elliott> mooses don't lead civilisations
03:24:08 <elliott> maybe it just has the same name
03:24:15 <elliott> this thing is definitely a demon
03:24:20 <elliott> CakeProphet: save the game and quit
03:24:25 <elliott> the baygames people need to look at this
03:24:25 <CakeProphet> YEAH DUDE IT'S A MOOSE DEMON ADMINISTRATOR
03:25:10 <CakeProphet> maybe they allow things like this on purpose?
03:25:14 <elliott> CakeProphet: wait a sec, wait a sec
03:26:40 <elliott> CakeProphet: irc.newnet.net
03:26:51 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Quit: Changing server).
03:27:38 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
03:31:52 <elliott> CakeProphet: have you figured out how to use your client
03:32:33 <elliott> CakeProphet: #bay12games on that server
03:32:46 <elliott> ask them wtf is going on, provide screenshots of civilisation tab and http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot-Dwarf%20Fortress.png
03:34:05 <CakeProphet> obviously they do not like that my dwarves are excellent freestylers.
03:35:06 <elliott> you could be sitting on a valuable glitch, stop messing around and ask :p
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:35 < adam> Are moose demons supposed to be leaders of goblin civilizations?
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:36 < adam> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot-Dwarf%20Fortress.png
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:36 < adam> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/CivTab.png
03:37:16 <CakeProphet> 23:36 -!- Archi [~Archi@NewNet-492A2BF0.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout]
03:38:21 <elliott> CakeProphet: ask them why it's on your map :P
03:39:29 <CakeProphet> elliott: apparently it's completely intentionally
03:39:42 <elliott> i don't even know what a moose demon _is_
03:39:48 <elliott> it's one of the hell demons
03:39:53 <elliott> because they are all like that
03:45:26 <CakeProphet> perhaps I should release my 12 badger cages.
03:45:54 <CakeProphet> elliott: but it really does make sense that a bunch of goblins would come under the influence of a demon.
03:46:01 <CakeProphet> just not quite sure how he got out of hell.
03:46:37 <CakeProphet> when I saw "moose demon administrator" I thought it was just a weird title.
03:47:23 <CakeProphet> I'm just conscripting civilizations at this point.
03:47:56 <elliott> not without a really good military
03:47:58 <elliott> leave it alone and hope it leaves
03:48:46 <bd_> wall it off
03:48:58 <bd_> demons will break down doors but they won't break down constructed walls
03:49:11 <bd_> so you can wall off and survive trapped underground
03:49:22 <bd_> with some luck the traders will be able to kill it off when they come by next
03:49:37 <elliott> bd_: you should play rosyarrow if ngevd ever finishes his turn
03:49:42 <bd_> rosyarrow?
03:49:45 <elliott> we're planning a large-scale invasion of hell
03:49:51 <elliott> and then walling off its edges
03:49:56 <elliott> and putting the traders there
03:50:04 <elliott> that is also how we will kill the elves
03:50:15 <bd_> I thought I read somewhere that the hell dimension... shifts?
03:50:17 <elliott> other fun stuff: it's literally on the coast; over half the overground map is sea
03:50:35 <elliott> and our well is permanently salty due to a bug
03:50:46 <bd_> fixable with a pump, I'd think?
03:50:53 <elliott> every tile below sea level
03:51:10 <bd_> ... but above sea level is fine, right?
03:51:10 <elliott> dfhack added support to fix it when we found that out
03:51:13 <elliott> but we haven't ran it yet :p
03:51:28 <elliott> like two thirds+ of the map is water
03:51:44 <bd_> is there a thread summarizing what's happened so far before I commit to managing some kind of cursed hellhole? >.>
03:51:55 <elliott> yeah it's called our irc logs
03:52:03 <elliott> but ngevd's turn has lasted like
03:52:04 <bd_> haven't been idling here that long :)
03:52:12 <elliott> bd_: actually, of another channel :p
03:52:35 <bd_> also, note, I'm more of the trapping-nobels persuasion than the DF military persuasion. never quite figured out how to get those damn dwarves to actually train. or maybe it was buggy in the last version that I tried <.<
03:52:35 <elliott> ...anyway, I'd rather we avoided using cave-ins on the demons... which is a rather unpopular position...
03:52:43 <elliott> because i want to trap as many as possible :p
03:52:44 <bd_> what about magma traps?
03:52:49 <elliott> bd_: we've been dangerrooming indiscriminately
03:52:54 <bd_> what about cave-in cage traps?
03:53:04 <elliott> the plan was to use a GCS to web them
03:53:09 <elliott> so that they fall into cage traps
03:53:11 <bd_> dangerrooming?
03:53:18 <elliott> yes we are ultimate cheaters
03:53:33 <bd_> I mean, what is dangerrooming?
03:53:52 <bd_> right then.
03:54:07 <bd_> clever. and sadistic.
03:54:14 <bd_> so totally in line with the usual DF playstyle
03:54:17 <elliott> two of our dwarves killed like ten master goblin soldiers
03:54:44 <elliott> oh, and the goblins killed the human traders...
03:54:58 <elliott> it's basically ten disasters piled on top of each other: the fortress
03:55:58 <bd_> what channel have you been playing this in?
03:56:10 <bd_> ... also, do I know you from somewhere other than here? <.<;
03:56:51 <CakeProphet> perhaps I've hurt him enough to make that possible.
03:57:08 <bd_> CakeProphet: check his stats?
03:57:09 <elliott> CakeProphet: he's just tired
03:57:21 <elliott> give him some rest, he's earned it
03:57:22 <CakeProphet> in any case it's an excellent opportunity o wall him in.
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03:58:56 <CakeProphet> yeah some of his wounds have turned into scars.
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04:01:19 <bd_> CakeProphet: Can he fly? because if not this is a great time to start channeling out all but one tile of support for a 10 z-level column directly above him...
04:04:34 <bd_> CakeProphet: if you're going to do that make sure to take proper precautions in case he can swim and breathe underwater
04:05:48 <CakeProphet> so yeah my jail has turned into a demon holding area.
04:06:24 <bd_> next: create an arena for elf-demon battles
04:06:32 <Sgeo|web_> CakeProphet elliott tswett (not you) PH isn't here: 100%
04:07:23 <CakeProphet> eh I was going to drown him in the hopes that the goblins would leave me alone now;
04:12:01 <elliott> http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010_Talk:Wound#Pale
04:13:29 <CakeProphet> but being a demon he might just heal? I don't know how that works.
04:21:31 <elliott> why haven't you been getting migrants
04:22:52 <elliott> oerjan: you haven't added the parenthical yet >:)
04:23:06 <oerjan> ...you haven't reloaded properly.
04:23:25 <elliott> oerjan: it should be at the top, not the bottom
04:23:32 <elliott> to keep the page in chronological order
04:23:50 <elliott> and to avoid "editing" existing material (the space between the note and the heading)
04:24:52 <oerjan> i think i shall keep it this way just to drive you crazy.
04:25:58 <shachaf> How does zzo work, exactly?
04:26:12 <elliott> oerjan: You couldn't ban zzo You wouldn't.
04:26:30 <oerjan> you are probably right about that.
04:26:38 * shachaf hasn't quite figured the whole topic out.
04:26:55 <oerjan> it would somehow disturb the fragile remains of order in the universe.
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04:28:06 <shachaf> I suppose that's the way to go.
04:28:29 * shachaf is at airport with free WiFi.
04:28:30 <shachaf> The wonders of modern technology.
04:29:07 <shachaf> Also, ~8 Mbps download/upload. Way faster than what I have at home.
04:29:25 <elliott> shachaf: Is it in... uh...
04:29:47 <shachaf> The server my IRC client runs on, it would seem.
04:31:17 <elliott> ah yes, iceland are on utc right now
04:31:28 <elliott> - Summer (DST)not observed (UTC)
04:31:32 <oerjan> elliott somehow deduced it as the plausible conclusion
04:31:37 <elliott> shachaf: Iceland airport, right?
04:31:44 <elliott> oerjan: banning me wouldn't stop zzo. :)
04:32:02 <shachaf> What is the thing being fixed?
04:32:16 <oerjan> elliott: i'll just claim the page has a retrograde movement
04:32:24 <elliott> oerjan: but then you need to move all the content to the top
04:32:37 <oerjan> no no, only _new_ content is affected
04:33:03 * oerjan wonders if elliott got the pun
04:33:06 <elliott> pikhq_: huh: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory
04:33:16 <elliott> oerjan: no i'm actually an idiot, sorry to mislead
04:33:19 <elliott> <oerjan> you didn't mislead
04:34:05 <oerjan> shachaf: http://oerjan.nvg.org/agora-horoscope/
04:34:59 <oerjan> well to be precise it has already been fixed, but some elliotts remain unsatisfied
04:35:33 <oerjan> well you, and possibly facekicker, since he's evil
04:37:16 <elliott> brb; i expect COMPLETE FIXES when i return
04:37:22 <elliott> or i will demand my money back.
04:40:04 * Sgeo|web_ had a book on astrology when he was young
04:40:11 <Sgeo|web_> The Complete Idiot's Guide to Astrology
04:40:13 <pikhq_> elliott: It's not exactly a Debian-unique thing.
04:40:32 <pikhq_> It's probably going to be in the FHS in the near future.
04:40:55 <Sgeo|web_> I forget what nodes are, though. North and south pole related?
04:41:18 <oerjan> i'm not sure i ever knew
04:42:00 <Sgeo|web_> "More specifically, the Moon's nodes are the points where the Moon's orbit intersect the plane of the ecliptic."
04:42:04 <Sgeo|web_> http://cafeastrology.com/northnodesouthnode.html
04:42:34 <Sgeo|web_> There's a North Node and a South Node
04:44:51 <Sgeo|web_> Why is there only one node in that chart?
04:47:32 <zzo38> Sgeo|web_: Usually only the North Node is specified because the South Node is opposite to it by definition. The lunar nodes can be used to predict eclipses.
04:47:42 <zzo38> (See the Wikipedia article about lunar nodes)
04:50:01 <zzo38> Do you know anything about balanced Eulerian tournament digraphs?
04:56:16 <CakeProphet> Little do demons know that though their claws and fire cannot pierce the adamantine sealing them away, a simple copper pick can dig right through it with ease. Armok forbid these unholy creatures ever get their hands on one.
04:56:48 <zzo38> Do you understand the lunar nodes now? I didn't know what it was either until I looked on Wikipedia, so I know how it related to solar and lunar eclipses, and so on. That astrology article doesn't help much, unless you want to know what they represent in interpretations.
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05:05:15 <zzo38> However, that astrology stuff did describe something I could not find on Wikipedia, which is what Vertex is. It is as follows: "The Vertex is a point located in the western hemisphere of a chart (the right-hand side) that represents the intersection of the ecliptic and the prime vertical."
05:13:54 <CakeProphet> http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/File:Champions.png
05:17:00 <elliott> CakeProphet: that's from the twodee version
05:18:09 <zzo38> It also describes the Sun/Moon midpoint, which is half way between Sun and Moon. But there are two. You could choose the closer one, I suppose, but then how do you know what to choose during a full moon? Or you could choose a direction (such as clockwise from the Sun, or whatever). It is circular! It is modulus arithmetic!
05:19:47 <zzo38> The calcuation it describes there seems to do it such that the arc between the Sun and Moon where the midpoint is calculated on does not pass the 0 degree mark, but that does not seem best way to me.
05:21:26 <zzo38> (It describes converting to/from zodiac format; I prefer to work directly in degrees, which is fortunate that Astrolog includes such a feature! Astrolog can display the angles in hours/minutes format as well if you want to, or zodiac format, or degrees format.)
05:21:56 <CakeProphet> elliott: I wonder if it's possible to make a fortress that's entirely self-sustainable, requiring no surface work.
05:22:03 <CakeProphet> then you could seal yourself off from everything.
05:22:16 <bd_> CakeProphet: Sure. You just need to breach an underground cave to get tower-cap growths
05:22:38 <bd_> assuming you don't need to trade, you can then grow food and logs underground
05:23:02 <elliott> we also have fishing access
05:23:32 <CakeProphet> basically I just built it directly above my cistern.
05:24:03 <CakeProphet> because my cistern tends to accumulate fish.
05:29:18 <bd_> CakeProphet: Think of the micromanagement possibilities! You could spend real-world _days_ just figuring out the train schedules!
05:31:36 <CakeProphet> you could, for example, have archers locked in their own little archer tower rooms, with a rail system that constantly supplies them with food/drink/ammo :P
05:31:55 <CakeProphet> so they can overlook your magma-moated castle walls.
05:31:57 <bd_> but first I think DF needs better stocks routing support
05:32:01 <bd_> 'take from' isn't quite good enough
05:32:34 <bd_> I want to be able to say stockpile #7 should always have between 3-6 prepared meals, and these should be taken from any of stockpiles #10, #12, or #14, dammit :|
05:36:52 <zzo38> Which angle display format do *you* prefer??
05:56:48 <elliott> another interesting feature of rosyarrow i forgot to mention
05:56:57 <elliott> there are no meeting rooms or dining halls
06:03:01 <CakeProphet> I thought dining halls helped keep dwarves happy.
06:03:25 <elliott> We have booze, that's enough.
06:03:30 <elliott> The important thing is that they don't make friends.
06:03:36 <elliott> It has been a rousing success so far.
06:04:50 <CakeProphet> I suppose you could just make really nice bedrooms
06:05:04 <CakeProphet> I'm considering designing my new living quarters with gold furniture.
06:05:15 <CakeProphet> though... I should probably focus on just rebuilding right now.
06:07:01 <elliott> CakeProphet: our bedrooms are standard
06:09:56 <CakeProphet> http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/File:Dwarven_Housing.png
06:21:11 <elliott> in memorial of death 0000-9999, rest in peace
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06:58:02 <CakeProphet> The monarch's entourage consists of a group of dwarves with Legendary +5 skill in a random weapon (but no skill in Fighter}, Accomplished Dodger, Shield User, and Armor User, and that enter play with the "doesn't really care about anything anymore" trait.
06:58:11 <zzo38> Do you know if it is possible to tell the type of a solar eclipse from a horoscope, or only that there is one?
06:58:12 <CakeProphet> Madoka-Kaname: this is a good trait for members of an elite death squad to have right?
06:58:37 <CakeProphet> zzo38: I know absolutely nothing about astrology or astronomy for that matter.
06:59:13 <Ngevd> And I call limonite lemonade
06:59:50 <zzo38> CakeProphet: Even if you know only one, you probably wouldn't know. I don't know if people knowing both know. I know some, but you would have to know a lot about astronomy and a few things about astrology to know the answer to this, I would think.
07:01:04 <zzo38> I don't know the answer either; although I have gotten eclipse data and input them into Astrolog to see if I could notice anything that might show the type of the eclipse, and I did not find anything, so I don't know.
07:01:43 <CakeProphet> I mean, why do you keep doing astronomy stuff.
07:01:47 <Ngevd> The curiosity of the human(?) mind
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07:02:03 <zzo38> Yes, due to curiosity, I suppose.
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08:50:10 <zzo38> I have an idea for a game where a horoscope for the current time and location is used as the game board, updating in real time. Pieces placed on it are moved by the players according to your choices, as well as by cards you can pick up. You can also have timers (possibly the pieces themselves can be timers to limit your time!). It might seem like those kind of made up games with rules depending on whether it is Tuesday and that kind of strange
08:54:25 <zzo38> How many other games are there whose rules depend on the phase of the moon?
08:54:39 <Ngevd> Probably more than zero
08:55:31 <zzo38> Possibly, but do you know of any?
08:55:50 <Ngevd> Some hypothetical nomics, but other than that...
09:05:18 <zzo38> Hypothetical nomics?
09:05:40 <Ngevd> It is possible for in a game of Nomic to introduce rules that depend on the phase of the moon
09:05:49 <Ngevd> I do not know if any such Nomic has occured
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09:09:45 <zzo38> I didn't mean nomic games, though; I meant a board game, with rules, like how chess or backgammon or whatever.
09:10:00 <zzo38> And/or with cards, like rummy, poker, and Double Fanucci.
09:13:56 <Madoka-Kaname> I wonder if it's possible to make a ruleset where some rules cannot be changed without introducing logical inconsistancy.
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09:22:22 <zzo38> For what categories do there exist functors from that category to a cancelling digraph category?
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10:14:57 <Ngevd> In the hall of the mountain king: music to play Dwarf Fortress to
10:28:54 <Ngevd> Ceilidh is a weird word
10:30:02 <Ngevd> It has a silent dh
10:30:42 <Ngevd> I may make an esolang called K-Li
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11:59:41 <Ngevd> Argand diagrams are annoying
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12:24:54 <nooga> i like how roguelikes are annoying
12:25:06 <nooga> and you die every 10 minutes
12:49:52 <nooga> fdeipafhip$#HR#PI$HTPIHp jellies
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14:33:31 <Ngevd> Can anyone recommend a screen recorder for Minecraft?
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16:17:22 <Vorpal> Ngevd, screen recording programs that I know of: vlc (!), recordmydesktop, xvidcap
16:17:30 <Vorpal> never tried any of them for minecraft
16:17:41 <Vorpal> only used xvidcap myself, and not on opengl stuff
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17:23:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what happened?
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17:24:15 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I don't see how that would hurt your knees?
17:24:42 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ask the person in front of you to move their char forwards?
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17:24:49 <Vorpal> or move your own chair backwards
17:24:54 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, that should solve it
17:24:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Not like elliott, his legs are probably like this long: | |
17:25:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well, I avoid small cars.
17:25:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, whenever possible
17:25:50 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, then just ask the guy in front of you to move his damn chair forwards
17:25:59 <monqy> 1 2 / 12 / 21 / 2 1
17:26:57 <monqy> leg length, with endpoints numbered so it makes sense
17:27:14 <monqy> each line separated by a /, rather than actually being individual lines
17:38:27 <elliott> But if we see you with any elves you're dying with them.
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17:42:49 <elliott> fizzie: The reverse-context tree associations to add for the five-gram [a b c d e] are /→a, /→b, /→c, /→d, /→e, /a→b, /b→c, /c→d, /d→e, /b/a→c, /c/b→d, /d/c→e, /c/b/a→d, /d/c/b→e, /d/c/b/a→e, right?
17:48:10 <fizzie> Looks sensible. I suppose the frequencies of the shorter-context values will not be entirely the same that you would get by taking them from the original text (due to the overlapping, and the filtering), but there's not much you can do about that.
17:49:00 <elliott> fizzie: Right. Just making sure that I hadn't gotten anything massively wrong.
17:49:59 <elliott> fizzie: Specifically because I'm hand-writing the list. :p
17:50:21 <elliott> I suppose I should probably generate it with lambdabot or something.
17:50:25 <lambdabot> [[],[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e]]
17:50:47 <elliott> I guess I want all ordered sublists.
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17:51:05 <lambdabot> [[a,b,c,d,e],[b,c,d,e],[c,d,e],[d,e],[e],[]]
17:51:18 <ais523> > (tails >>= inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:51:19 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a] -> b'
17:51:39 <elliott> > tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits
17:51:40 <lambdabot> [[],[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e],[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],...
17:52:04 <elliott> > [ (init xs, last xs) | xs <- tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits ]
17:52:05 <lambdabot> [(*Exception: Prelude.init: empty list
17:52:11 <elliott> > [ (init xs, last xs) | xs <- tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits, not (null xs) ]
17:52:11 <lambdabot> [([],a),([a],b),([a,b],c),([a,b,c],d),([a,b,c,d],e),([],b),([b],c),([b,c],d...
17:52:13 <ais523> so what is the composition version of >>=?
17:52:32 <lambdabot> forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
17:52:38 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
17:53:44 <elliott> ok, now I need one that filters out ones where any element of the list is ""...
17:53:50 <elliott> except that it'll only be the tail
17:54:08 <elliott> [ pretend it's a one-gram ] ++
17:54:14 <elliott> [ pretend it's a two-gram | as long as b isn't "" ] ++
17:54:22 <elliott> [ pretend it's a three-gram | as long as c isn't ""] ++
17:54:29 <ais523> > ((tail tails) >=> inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:54:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
17:54:30 <lambdabot> against inferred type `[a1] -> [...
17:54:36 <ais523> > ((tail . tails) >=> inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:54:37 <lambdabot> [[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[],[c],[c,d],[c,d,e],[],[d],[d,e],[],[e],[]]
17:54:45 <ais523> > ((tails . tail) >=> inits) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:54:47 <lambdabot> [[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[],[c],[c,d],[c,d,e],[],[d],[d,e],[],[e],[]]
17:55:05 <elliott> ais523: what's surprising?
17:55:05 <ais523> > (tails >=> (inits . tail)) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:55:07 <lambdabot> [[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[],[c],[c,d],[c,d,e],[],[d],[d,e],[],[e],[]...
17:55:15 <ais523> > (tails >=> (tail . inits)) [a,b,c,d,e]
17:55:16 <lambdabot> [[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],[c],[c...
17:55:19 <ais523> elliott: I didn't expect the results to be the same
17:55:32 <ais523> I still don't get why the three incorrect ones are the same
17:55:37 <ais523> > (tails >=> (tail . inits)) [a,b,c]
17:55:54 <lambdabot> forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
17:56:04 <elliott> ctxgrams :: N a -> [([a],a)]
17:56:04 <elliott> | xs <- tails [a, b, c, d, e] >>= inits
17:56:10 <lambdabot> forall a (m :: * -> *) b c. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
17:56:16 <elliott> but I can optimise it later
17:57:25 <lambdabot> Source not found. I've seen penguins that can type better than that.
17:57:27 <tiffany> ^ that is a trollface.jpg gzipped 9001 times
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17:58:32 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Tree a' against inferred type `[b]'
17:58:32 <lambdabot> In the second argument of `($)', namely `map g $ f a'
17:58:32 <lambdabot> In the expression: flatten $ map g $ f a
17:58:41 <lambdabot> Prelude uncurry :: (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c
17:58:41 <lambdabot> Data.Tuple uncurry :: (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c
17:58:41 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.ST runST :: ST s a -> a
17:58:42 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative unwrapMonad :: WrappedMonad m a -> m a
17:58:42 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Base.RegexLike getAllMatches :: AllMatches f b -> f b
17:58:43 <lambdabot> Text.Regex.Base.RegexLike getAllSubmatches :: AllSubmatches f b -> f b
17:58:58 <elliott> because these are interned
17:59:06 <elliott> I need to make sure 0 = null string
17:59:28 <tiffany> gzip -c trollface.jpg > trollface.jpg.gz; for i in $(seq 1 9000); do gzip -c trollface.jpg.gz > trollface.jpg.gz; echo $i; done
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18:00:15 <elliott> you don't know how > works
18:00:30 <fizzie> The redirection will wipe the file before gzip starts reading it.
18:00:38 <tiffany> that explains why it's corrupted >_>
18:00:58 <elliott> it's also corrupted because it is a horrible idea and unix will not let you do something so stupid
18:01:23 <fizzie> Just add 9000 .gz's in the name, it's more proper that way and you get to keep the intermediate copies.
18:01:28 <fizzie> .jpg.gz, the best format.
18:01:38 <lambdabot> forall t a a1. (t -> [a1]) -> (a1 -> [a]) -> t -> [a]
18:01:47 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a
18:01:51 <lambdabot> forall a b. (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
18:01:58 <elliott> ^@^A!^A'^BIt^CThe^Dsame^BAs^Aa^Fresult^A"^FForget^Dthat^DGood^Dland^BHe^Fseemed^CLet^Cher^EMadam^AO^COui^A.^GPerhaps^Cthe^FPraise^EQuite
18:01:58 <elliott> impossible^Ddead^Csun^DThen^Chow^BTo^Dfind^CWhy^Gstrange^A(^CAnd^BPP^A)^EThose^A-^Cand^AI^AA^Ecurly^Cman^Bof^DAmen^Bhe^Cshe^Cput^Hgovernor^Equeen^Dthey^Ebegan^Cyet^Ethere
18:02:01 <lambdabot> Data.Traversable fmapDefault :: Traversable t => (a -> b) -> t a -> t b
18:02:01 <lambdabot> Prelude fmap :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
18:02:01 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative (<$>) :: Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
18:02:10 <elliott> it the same as a result forget that good land he seemed let her madam o oui.
18:02:29 <elliott> perhaps the praise quite impossible dead sun then how to find why strange (and) those - and I a curly man of men he she put governor queen they began yet there
18:02:40 <elliott> this is better than actually doing anything markov, just reading the intern table :P
18:03:53 <lambdabot> forall a b a1 (m :: * -> *). (Functor m, Monad m) => (a -> b) -> m a1 -> a -> m b
18:04:22 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a b a1. (Monad m) => (a -> b) -> (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> m b
18:04:27 <elliott> fizzie: Heh, an awful lot of these only get me 10 instead of fifteen.
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18:44:35 <elliott> > tails [a,b,c,d,e] >>= inits
18:44:36 <lambdabot> [[],[a],[a,b],[a,b,c],[a,b,c,d],[a,b,c,d,e],[],[b],[b,c],[b,c,d],[b,c,d,e],...
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19:09:38 <elliott> I am fully utilising Haskell's strengths in this program, which is why I'm using a ByteString instead of any data structures.
19:13:28 <pumpkin> elliott: that can be done in either order
19:13:41 <pumpkin> > (tails <=< inits) [1..5]
19:13:42 <lambdabot> [[],[1],[],[1,2],[2],[],[1,2,3],[2,3],[3],[],[1,2,3,4],[2,3,4],[3,4],[4],[]...
19:13:51 <pumpkin> > (inits <=< tails) [1..5]
19:13:52 <lambdabot> [[],[1],[1,2],[1,2,3],[1,2,3,4],[1,2,3,4,5],[],[2],[2,3],[2,3,4],[2,3,4,5],...
19:13:52 <elliott> I don't think it matters much here, though
19:13:59 <pumpkin> one works on infinite lists
19:14:27 <pumpkin> you seen the awesomeness of
19:14:27 <pumpkin> > liftA2 (=<<) zip (tail . tails) $ [1..5]
19:14:29 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(1,3),(2,4),(3,5),(1,4),(2,5),(1,5)]
19:14:30 <elliott> pumpkin: My list is so finite that I just did the manual graph reduction thing again to cut seconds off my runtime. :p
19:14:37 <elliott> ctxgrams :: N Word32 -> [([Word32], Word32)]
19:14:37 <elliott> filter (\(xs,r) -> all (/= packedEmpty) (r:xs)) $
19:14:37 <elliott> [ ([], a), ([], b), ([], c), ([], d), ([], e)
19:14:37 <elliott> , ([a], b), ([b], c), ([c], d), ([d], e)
19:14:37 <elliott> , ([b, a], c), ([c, b], d), ([d, c], e)
19:14:40 <elliott> , ([c, b, a], d), ([d, c, b], e)
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19:28:26 <elliott> fizzie: Actually, how the heck /am/ I meant to reconstruct e.g. how much to add to the unigram count for "c" given (a,b,c,d,e,999)?
19:28:31 <elliott> I guess I could just add 999.
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19:34:26 <oerjan> <elliott> The important thing is that they don't make friends.
19:34:43 <oerjan> you seem to be outdoing huxley and orwell here
19:35:05 <elliott> oerjan: Did Oceania ever colonise Hell?
19:35:35 <oerjan> well you haven't succeeded _yet_
19:35:48 <fizzie> elliott: Well, yes, it's a bit tricky. For the text corpus of only "a b c d e" it would be right; for a full model of "a b c d e f g h i" you'd (discounting the "edge effects") count each unigram 5 times ('e' is in "a b c d e", "b c d e f", .., "e f g h i"), but it doesn't really matter since it's just the relative frequencies that are important; with the filtering, it's anyone's guess; maybe just add 999.
19:35:49 <Ngevd> Why did I say Eastasia?
19:35:58 <Ngevd> Eastasia has never colonised hell
19:36:07 <oerjan> Ngevd: you didn't say eastasia. you always said eurasia.
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19:36:20 <elliott> fizzie: Right. Adding 999 will be "morally correct" in some way, surely?
19:36:38 <elliott> fizzie: I mean, I'm sure you can construct some sort of statistical argument that in the average case it approaches being the most accurate you can get blah blah blah.
19:37:14 <fizzie> It's certainly better than just adding 1, and a constant factor doesn't really matter a thing, so there's not so much you could do there. I'm sure with the correct assumptions it goes more or less right in some sense.
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19:41:06 <oerjan> @tell zzo38 <zzo38> Do you know if it is possible to tell the type of a solar eclipse from a horoscope, or only that there is one? <-- i'd assume it'd be most complete when it's exactly on the node?
19:41:31 <elliott> Why is vim so damn slow at opening large files?
19:42:46 <Vorpal> elliott, is emacs any faster? If not: your disk bw probably
19:43:03 <Vorpal> or it might load the entire file into a data structure optimised for smaller files
19:43:04 <elliott> How to get Vorpal to say the word "emacs": say the word "vim".
19:43:22 <Vorpal> elliott, no I'm trying to help you figure out the cause
19:43:33 <elliott> It's only ninety megs, so it's not my disk.
19:43:48 <Vorpal> elliott, well, is another editor such as emacs, nano, or whatever faster?
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19:44:33 <elliott> emacs -Q goes faster; M-> takes ages, so it's probably trying to avoid loading all the file into RAM.
19:44:46 <elliott> Which is counterproductive in this case, because whatever it's doing is taking ages just to go to the end of the file, and I have 90 megs of ram
19:44:54 <elliott> At least vim is fast once it loads up
19:45:11 <elliott> Except now it's actually not, heh
19:45:56 <elliott> Vorpal: Loads near-instantly.
19:46:14 <elliott> ais523: I like how every other problem I run into in computing is blimping.
19:46:15 <Vorpal> elliott, and the editing at the end?
19:46:23 <elliott> Vorpal: Don't feel like figuring out how to do that.
19:46:53 <elliott> What the UL→C compiler has to do to de-nest.
19:47:00 <elliott> It's turning a nested structure into pointers.
19:48:35 <oerjan> blimping and zipperlins
19:48:51 <Vorpal> I knew you were going to do a joke along those lines
19:49:02 <Vorpal> zzo38, I think you have messages from lambdabot
19:50:37 <zzo38> O, yes, you are correct.
19:50:41 <Vorpal> oerjan, In other words, I'm omniscient
19:51:19 <Ngevd> Therefore you are a rock
19:51:20 <zzo38> oerjan: OK, I suppose so. But there are total, annular, partial, hybrid, eclipses.
19:51:38 <HackEgo> 105) <Warrigal> I seem to think of coaxial cables as being omnipotent somehow. \ 338) <lament> elliott: well what i would do if i were omniscient and omnipotent would be to create an immortal woman with perfect tits and bang her for the rest of eternity \ 482) <itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without
19:51:48 <HackEgo> 482) <itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent <oklopol> for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception
19:51:52 <HackEgo> 338) <lament> elliott: well what i would do if i were omniscient and omnipotent would be to create an immortal woman with perfect tits and bang her for the rest of eternity
19:52:02 <HackEgo> 672) <monqy> never ever do bacon floats or i will hunt you down and kill you augh my leg
19:52:04 <HackEgo> 424) <oklofok> what would you ever need petrol for <oklofok> newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good
19:52:05 <oerjan> zzo38: oh the annular thing would depend on the moon's distance would it, i don't think that can be deduced
19:52:17 <HackEgo> 202) <fizzie> I don't trust ducks. They always look like they're planning something. I'm not sure it's a good idea to give them language capabilities.
19:52:17 <HackEgo> 305) <oklopol> okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG"
19:52:17 <HackEgo> 570) <monqy> this reminds me of a time where this guy made up a pretend language that was in his fantasy world and then roleplayed as someone from his fantasy world who used the language and then tried to talk to me about the language
19:52:23 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover, it can't hurt
19:53:02 <Ngevd> All I know is that this is all I know
19:53:21 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what a "perfect tit" was? You would know that if omniscient.
19:54:08 <HackEgo> 672) <monqy> never ever do bacon floats or i will hunt you down and kill you augh my leg
19:54:09 <elliott> no no that one's funny because of augh my leg
19:54:22 <HackEgo> 305) <oklopol> okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG"
19:54:24 <HackEgo> 561) <Phantom_Hoover> On further reflection, I think I did manage to miss winter and spring altogether. <Phantom_Hoover> This does explain the goblin siege I had in autumn.
19:54:26 <HackEgo> 452) <d1ffe7e45e interpreter> The interpreter uses an unbounded tape size, but due to technical limitations will stop being unbounded if the tap size reaches 2^63 cells.
19:54:32 <HackEgo> 82) <Eeyore> I used to have salt licks for my horses. They would make cool abstract sculptures with them.
19:54:33 <HackEgo> 323) <catseye> wow, thinkgeek really makes me hate being alive
19:55:03 <elliott> Hmph, those are all pretty good.
19:55:07 <elliott> 82 and 305 are probably the worst.
19:55:14 <Vorpal> elliott, why remove any one?
19:55:14 <Ngevd> This technique is working, then
19:55:14 <elliott> But the qdb doesn't seem to want me to delete anything.
19:56:20 <Ngevd> I've had a significantly better idea for a fungot style!
19:56:21 <fungot> Ngevd: belarius. look, what was indifferent too, yet somewhat doubtful, might i not then be answer'd? du. anthonio and old shylocke, both stand forth
19:56:35 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss* wp youtube
19:56:41 <fungot> Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings)
19:56:51 <fungot> Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
19:57:00 <fungot> Vorpal: hey i am in extreme situations: first- before getting it... second- after loosing it." luke.. today i am in cbe only. but have to seek. hee
19:57:06 <Ngevd> fungot, what's the answer?
19:57:07 <fungot> Ngevd: tell me ya confirm time later. she's in for a sec
19:57:15 <zzo38> oerjan: I think Astrolog does have a mode that displays distances too.
19:57:17 <fungot> Vorpal: a sweet friend for the dog to? why nv reply me de. pls:-)
19:57:23 <fizzie> fungot: More abbrvs, pls.
19:57:24 <fungot> fizzie: thank u. please try to sleep. i am tired of travel. ask someone to check sagamu for the same. wana plan a trip to ily at 6pm. tablesbooked already. im cabbing down so take pictures up on facebook. you are one step out from my hse one leh. why cannot go jc also
19:57:27 <zzo38> Although the horoscope itself does not include them.
19:57:32 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms* speeches ss wp youtube
19:57:36 <fungot> Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics)
19:57:44 <fungot> Ngevd: ducks don't have any friends, so i'll have to play it?
19:57:52 <fungot> Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material)
19:57:56 <fungot> Vorpal: each gosub call places five bytes to the chrget routine will turn it on your computer would be unterlined in our listings. for now, this pointer may be shown behind sprite graphics
19:58:06 <fungot> Vorpal: there is no exception, and to load the x and y registers. y is a special type of user definable character which is the frequency of 1,022,730 hz ( 985,250 if you hold down the shift keys is being pressed.
19:58:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, must have been a typo in the original. In at least 2 places
19:58:39 <Vorpal> fungot, but "this pointer may be shown behind sprite graphics", you mean like on the display?
19:58:39 <fungot> Vorpal: the function, 31, 35, 374 clrchn, 272-273, 275 chkout, 272-273, 280 ciout, 272-273, 278-279 chr function, 31, 38, 56, 61, 79, 87, 89 basic numeric functions will be executed automatically by printing the second
19:58:56 <Vorpal> fungot, is that the index?
19:58:57 <fungot> Vorpal: filt 1 ( 53265, 53266
19:59:00 <elliott> process :: PackedNgram -> RCT -> RCT
19:59:00 <elliott> process (PackedNgram xs n) rct = foldl' (flip process') rct (ctxgrams xs)
19:59:00 <elliott> where process' (ys, r) = at ys $ \(RCT paths grams) -> RCT paths (HM.insertWith (+) r n grams)
19:59:00 <elliott> at (p:ps) f (RCT paths grams) = RCT (HM.adjust (at ps f) p $ HM.insertWith (flip const) p (RCT HM.empty HM.empty) paths) grams
19:59:06 <fizzie> There are quite a lot of tables in that stuff.
20:00:00 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
20:00:10 <Ngevd> fungot, how're you?
20:00:12 <fungot> Ngevd: now it catches the fnord of senses does not define a political structure, there can be no valid criticisms of atheism are based on the fact that chandragupta belonged to mauryas who were asuras? is this some peculiar formatting error or some ongoing tradition? i am not a pole is not an ascii character available from keyboard ( though it is understood. and so an article on latin, and is yet further evidence that the entir
20:01:17 <fizzie> Ngevd: Here's the article list: http://p.zem.fi/w9q7
20:01:32 <fizzie> (Somewhat mangled; reconstructed it from file names.)
20:02:16 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
20:02:25 <Ngevd> fungot, how does this one sound like?
20:02:26 <fungot> Ngevd: in addition to any other player's voting potential
20:02:36 <Ngevd> fungot, how about now?
20:02:37 <fungot> Ngevd: let there be a member of more than 100 rules, past judgement, the
20:03:29 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
20:03:37 <fungot> Ngevd: " could you come to-day?"
20:03:38 <oerjan> <zzo38> I have an idea for a game where a horoscope for the current time and location is used as the game board, updating in real time. Pieces placed on it are moved by the players according to your choices, as well as by cards you can pick up. You can also have timers (possibly the pieces themselves can be timers to limit your time!). It might seem like those kind of made up games with rules depending on whether it is Tuesday and that kind of strange
20:04:12 <oerjan> that seems like it would be slow to change; everything but the houses and maybe the moon wouldn't change perceptibly in a day
20:04:46 <Ngevd> Could work for postal games
20:04:49 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes; but what if it is play by mail?
20:04:51 <oerjan> and even those would take hours
20:05:04 <oerjan> then maybe it could work better
20:05:07 <zzo38> There are still time limits, but you can have many weeks.
20:05:08 <Ngevd> Mail nomic: longest game?
20:06:12 <zzo38> Any game is long by mail
20:06:29 <elliott> Ngevd: agora could practically be played by mail
20:06:36 <elliott> without changing the rules
20:06:38 <zzo38> Monopoly sometimes takes a long time, so it would be very long by mail.
20:07:08 <zzo38> Even Dungeons&Dragons could be played by mail if the referee rolls all the dice
20:08:42 <Vorpal> chess has been played by mail
20:08:52 <zzo38> Yes, chess is played by mail a lot.
20:09:00 <zzo38> I have played chess by mail.
20:10:30 <fizzie> VGA Planets by snailmail.
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20:10:51 <oerjan> it could be interesting if played by mail as you still might want to time your messages carefully to get the right horoscope for your move
20:11:01 <fizzie> You print out hexdumps of the turn files, and in the other end the other person types it in.
20:11:07 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, that is the kind of things I was thinking about!
20:11:58 <fizzie> Dance Dance Revolution by mail.
20:12:13 <fizzie> You need good stamina to stay on the pad for the snailmail round-trip.
20:12:22 <zzo38> And also the reason for time limits on your move.
20:13:35 <oerjan> <zzo38> For what categories do there exist functors from that category to a cancelling digraph category?
20:13:56 <oerjan> technically all, as you can always make a functor that sends everything to an object and its identity morphism
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20:15:06 <Vorpal> elliott, ooh better idea: mail by mail
20:15:24 <Vorpal> elliott, first life by mail
20:15:45 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, I suppose so. But require certain kind of functors, the one with each morphism and object still separated
20:15:54 <elliott> ser :: RCT -> ([Word32] -> Put, [RCT])
20:15:58 <elliott> the weirdest type signature
20:16:13 <HackEgo> 207) <olsner> DAMN YOU, I'm leaving <Vorpal> olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION!
20:16:23 <Vorpal> elliott, where is ser from?
20:16:50 <Vorpal> I forgot the context for that one
20:17:14 <oerjan> in which case i don't know what that is
20:17:23 <Vorpal> elliott, what is it for? And what is RCT
20:17:40 <elliott> serialising rct, and reverse-context tree
20:17:49 <HackEgo> 87) <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome.
20:17:54 <HackEgo> 422) <oklopol> so about jacuzzis, do they usually have a way to make it it not heat but freeze the water?
20:17:56 <HackEgo> 61) <Sgeo> What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
20:18:01 <HackEgo> 87) <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome.
20:18:02 <HackEgo> 187) <Vorpal> dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0<a]dsax+[GCD:]Pp' # easier-to-read version
20:18:09 <HackEgo> 493) <NihilistDandy> The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist
20:18:26 <Vorpal> <HackEgo> 187) <Vorpal> dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0<a]dsax+[GCD:]Pp' # easier-to-read version <-- what did that do? I forgot.
20:18:33 <Vorpal> and I don't feel like parsing dc atm
20:20:23 <elliott> ?hoogle [(a,b)] -> ([a],[b])
20:20:23 <lambdabot> Prelude unzip :: [(a, b)] -> ([a], [b])
20:20:23 <lambdabot> Data.List unzip :: [(a, b)] -> ([a], [b])
20:20:23 <oerjan> except grammar, grammar bad
20:20:40 <Vorpal> oerjan, yeah the -s in English is annoying
20:21:05 <oerjan> it's not like i _usually_ make that error. i think.
20:22:22 <oerjan> :t uncurry zip . unzip
20:23:32 <fizzie> "English -s is annoying" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_verb_conjugation
20:24:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, wtf is "passive voice"?
20:24:33 <Ngevd> The information was eluded by Vorpal
20:24:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, you use suffix for negation
20:25:36 <coppro> elliott: I take back the bad things I said about statically-sized types in Haskell now that I understand TH
20:25:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: What, no? Look at the first table; there's a word ("ei") for negation.
20:25:42 <oerjan> i distinctly thought they used the verb ei
20:25:47 <fizzie> The negation word gets inflected in place of the verb, those.
20:25:48 <elliott> coppro: I don't see how TH is related, but ok :P
20:25:54 <elliott> I guess it can help automate some things
20:26:12 <elliott> coppro: $(nat 30) is nicer
20:30:34 <fizzie> Vorpal: But we do have different suffixes for each of {first, second, third} person {singular, plural}. (OTOH at least it's sort of consistent, not just differing in the third person singular like English does it.)
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20:41:04 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> [a] -> [a])
20:41:15 <elliott> > scanr (\a b -> a + length b) 0 ["a","bc","d"]
20:41:16 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
20:41:16 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Types...
20:41:19 <elliott> > scanl (\a b -> a + length b) 0 ["a","bc","d"]
20:42:54 <oerjan> > liftA2 (=<<) zip (tail . tails . cycle) $ [1..5]
20:42:56 <lambdabot> [(1,2),(2,3),(3,4),(4,5),(5,1),(1,3),(2,4),(3,5),(4,1),(5,2),(1,4),(2,5),(3...
20:43:55 <oerjan> > length $ liftA2 (=<<) zip (tail . tails . cycle) $ [1..5]
20:45:49 <oerjan> > scanr ((+).length) 0 ["a","bc","d"]
20:49:50 <elliott> Yikes, my serialisation strategy is _really slow_.
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21:09:19 <elliott> oerjan: you should help me optimise my code :D :D :D :D :D
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21:10:54 <oerjan> elliott: i dunno anything about optimization, although i _did_ wonder if there was some fold or something for your at function above
21:11:56 <elliott> oerjan: that one is regrettably ugly because hashmap has no alter
21:12:07 <elliott> thus the (HM.adjust (at ps f) p $ HM.insertWith (flip const) p (RCT HM.empty HM.empty) paths)
21:12:15 <elliott> the (flip const) keeps the original value if not there
21:12:21 <elliott> so that insertWith basically gives it a default value
21:12:35 <elliott> but yeah that isn't actually the slow bit her
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21:48:40 <oerjan> regarding current iwc poll: it seems that knitted caps (tuques) count as hats in english?
21:51:15 <oerjan> i cannot answer the poll without knowing that, since i don't wear any other kind...
21:51:44 <Ngevd> Lets ask our resident hat expert, Gregor
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21:58:37 <oerjan> GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGOR
22:00:09 <oerjan> i don't recall his collection having knitted caps though, he might be biased for style reasons
22:03:09 <oerjan> wait idle for 1 days 4 hours
22:03:28 <olsner> hmm, hats? we're talking about hats?
22:03:43 <oerjan> yes, but i think i need a native english speaker for this
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22:04:29 <oerjan> since my confusion is partially from how they are _not_ "hatter" in norwegian, imho
22:05:43 <olsner> I think lots of more stuff is "hats" in english, since we differentiate between hattar and mössor
22:06:02 <olsner> but exactly which ones, you will need a native speaker for that :)
22:06:43 <oerjan> (hatter og luer in norwegian)
22:08:31 <oerjan> "In other parts of the English-speaking world, this type of hat is more commonly referred to by other names: knit hat or knit cap, sock cap or stocking cap, watch cap, skull cap or skully, snow hat, snow cap, ski cap, tossle cap, woolly hat, chook or beanie."
22:11:08 <Gregor> Knitted caps are hats.
22:12:02 <oerjan> the wikipedia headgear article only confused me more, by using hat _both_ as a specific and a general term
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22:17:04 <oerjan> yay the number 17 won the previous poll
22:17:19 <zzo38> I have another idea of new commands in Haskell, where proof { } is the same as id, and proof { f; } is a value making its own anonymous class, that is either f or id depending on which one has the correct type (where f is preferred, in case both types are correct). And proof { f; g; } becomes either (g . f) or (g) or (f) or (id) depending on needed type (where (g . f) is preferred, and then (g), etc). And you can have <- and -> usable ins
22:17:22 <oklopol> are we voting on the best prime
22:17:27 <zzo38> And then make it usable with more-notation as well.
22:17:32 <oerjan> oklopol: http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cgi-bin/poll.pl?a=7
22:17:43 <oerjan> sorry, but voting's over on that one
22:18:06 <zzo38> So in other words, "proof" is like an anonymous class, I guess.
22:18:27 <oklopol> so in an exam, this guy answered 79 to one of the questions
22:18:28 <zzo38> Where the members of the class are also anonymous.
22:18:33 <oklopol> i mean what the fuck kind of a prime is that >D
22:18:53 <oerjan> a perfectly respectable one
22:19:33 <oerjan> and very easy to check, too
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22:20:56 <oklopol> i mean how is it simpler than other sub-100's
22:20:58 <oerjan> the last digit 9 rules out 2 and 5. and since the digits are 7 and 9 you easily rule out both 3 and 7 just by looking at the other digit
22:21:23 <oerjan> and also 11 since it's so close to 77
22:21:25 <oklopol> oh i don't know the rule for 7... oh wait
22:21:39 <oklopol> so okay it may be particularly easy
22:22:58 <oklopol> 61 is pretty obvious, it's next-door neighbor is so cute it never had a change of finding anyone
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22:25:46 <oklopol> i just recalled someone said that on #math
22:26:18 <oerjan> 91 is the trickiest one below 100 to check, i think
22:26:55 <oerjan> it fits none of the easy rules
22:27:28 <oklopol> it fits the easy rule of having 7 as a factor
22:28:19 <oerjan> it's not _difficult_. it's just that division by 7 is harder to check than the other ones below 13
22:29:27 <oerjan> at the same time it's too big to be in the small multiplication table
22:29:29 <oklopol> to me, checking means someone tells you "91 = 70 + 21 so it's not a prime" and you say "good point", which takes a second
22:30:05 <oklopol> but yeah in the other sense, maybe it's hard
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23:32:04 <elliott> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png <Phantom_Hoover> WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED
23:32:07 <HackEgo> 690) <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png <Phantom_Hoover> WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED
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23:47:16 <olsner> so that's dwarf fortress then? looks a bit like befunge code
23:47:34 <elliott> underground looks a bit different
23:47:39 <elliott> i.e. most of the map is black
23:47:43 <elliott> rather than trees and shit
23:55:43 <coppro> btw elliott: I am evil: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~scshunt/Data.hs
23:56:12 <elliott> yeah everyone uses TH for everything until they realise how stupid it is
23:56:49 <elliott> for example what you have there is a complicated situation that can be handled only with a simple parser and reading a file :P
23:56:59 <coppro> I have a simple parser and template haskell instead
23:57:07 <elliott> coppro: btw you almost certainly don't want lastProposal to be :: (Num i) => i
23:57:14 <coppro> (unfortunately it's not written in such a way as to allow reuse)
23:57:19 <elliott> (b) you want that to be monomorphic
23:57:22 <elliott> :: Int or :: Integer probably
23:57:29 <coppro> and why must it be monomorphic?
23:57:43 <elliott> coppro: (a) that's what everyone says when people try and help them make their code more idiomatic
23:57:50 <elliott> coppro: (b) it doesn't have to be, but it makes no sense to interpret it as a Float
23:58:08 <elliott> technically naturals but there's no Nat oh well
23:58:22 <coppro> elliott: it plays badly with + on an int if I make it an Integer
23:58:39 <elliott> that's not called "playing badly"
23:58:52 <elliott> that's called "Int is not the same as Integer"
23:59:05 <elliott> just put it as :: Int, since it'll take quite a while for the number of proposals to overflow that...
23:59:22 <elliott> btw if you say "let x = lastProposal in (somethingThatExpectsAnInteger x, x + anInt)" it wouldn't work either
23:59:33 <elliott> so making the top level binding polymorphic does not really "fix" it, it just makes you think it's fixed