00:00:47 <fizzie> (Since 'resonance' i.e. the table ranges 0..127, so res/128 is about 0..1, and therefore at 20/24ths down the table you should get 10^(-(20/24)*(24/20)) = 10^-1.)
00:02:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:08:46 <fizzie> Given how messy that code is, I'd probably start with just the rules in http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=Impulse_Tracker#Resonant_filters after setting cutoff == IFC&0x7f and resonance == IFR&0x7f (and enabling the whole deal only if (IFC&0x80)||(IFR&0x80)). Or, well, in your case since you're not implementing it, you'd want to solve what you need IFC and IFR to be; that maybe needs ...
00:08:52 <fizzie> ... some thinking w.r.t. what sort of filter those rules implement. Though, honestly, this is such a corner-case feature, maybe you should just support it by letting the user define IFC and IFR as a value 0..127? I think that's what the real Impulse Tracker UI does, too.
00:10:12 <fizzie> It has a slider that is labeled 0..127, and then you can slide it past the 0 notch to "off", in which case the MSB will be clear.
00:10:29 <fizzie> (Disclaimer: I could be all wrong.)
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00:21:57 <kmc> facebook.com AAAA 2a03:2880:2110:3f01:face:b00c::
00:29:13 <zzo38> Should they just be left at zero for default, and then use 0x80-0xFF when a value is entered?
00:29:35 <zzo38> I could allow a value 0 to 127 to be entered, and add 128, and then use 0 if no value is entered at all
00:30:03 <Vorpal> kmc, poor google. If only it had been base 17 instead... Then they could have done g00g1e
00:30:35 -!- ion has joined.
00:31:22 <kmc> iirc it violates the rules about mixing scripts :/
00:31:26 <Vorpal> kmc, "Firefox kan inte hitta servern på www.xn--ggle-bn7o.com."
00:31:36 <kmc> bork bork bork
00:31:46 <kmc> don't worry about it
00:31:48 <Vorpal> "Firefox can not find the server on www.xn--ggle-bn7o.com."
00:31:58 <kmc> i gathered as much
00:32:09 <Vorpal> kmc, NOW YOU KNOW SOME SWEDISH
00:33:07 <fizzie> zzo38: That sounds reasonable.
00:34:05 <Vorpal> zzo38, you could or 128 instead of adding it. Depending on the CPU that could theoretically be more optimal :P
00:34:21 <Vorpal> (no need for any carry
00:34:27 <fizzie> Vorpal: They could still go with '600613', but it's not quite so recognizable.
00:34:28 <kmc> "more optimal"
00:34:56 <kmc> least extremal
00:34:58 <Vorpal> kmc, well probably not in practise
00:35:17 <Vorpal> (I was not being serious, obviously)
00:35:22 <fizzie> I think it was a comment on wording, not content.
00:35:32 <kmc> "optimal" is an absolute
00:36:01 <Vorpal> due to carry forward and what not both operations probably execute in one cycle anyway
00:36:06 <shachaf> kmc: Did you understand what Vorpal meant? How do you think they should've phrased it?
00:36:16 <shachaf> I guess in this case "better" would work.
00:36:16 <kmc> i did understand
00:36:20 <kmc> i would say "better" or "faster"
00:36:23 <kmc> but it's not a serious complaint
00:36:33 <shachaf> Do you also complain about "more unique"?
00:36:53 <Vorpal> kmc, do you complain about people saying PIN number or CD Disc?
00:37:01 <kmc> i complain about the people who complain about that
00:37:04 <kmc> i hate them
00:37:10 <kmc> because acronyms are words
00:37:16 <kmc> the etymology of a word is not especially important to its usage
00:37:34 <kmc> furthermore in many cases if you drop the "redundant" word, you end up with an awkward sentence
00:37:40 <Vorpal> shachaf, shouldn't it be uniquer?
00:37:53 <kmc> i take joy in ignoring arbitrary rules which only make language worse
00:37:53 <Vorpal> shachaf, what about deader and deatest?
00:38:01 <kmc> like the rule about splitting infinitives
00:38:14 <pikhq_> kmc: Can I at least complain about Detective Comics Comics?
00:38:18 <kmc> people say you can't split infinitives in english
00:38:24 <kmc> "to boldly go"
00:38:24 <fizzie> With PIN, it's sometimes a "personal PIN number".
00:38:29 <kmc> because in most languages an infinitive is one word
00:38:33 <pikhq_> Vorpal: More like a 'stupid'.
00:38:35 <kmc> but... english is not most languages, who cares
00:38:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, right that one is just silly
00:38:46 <kmc> (specifically in latin it's one word, and these people are bitter that they aren't speaking latin)
00:38:47 <coppro> kmc: I will goddamn split all the infinitives I goddamn want.
00:38:48 <pikhq_> Splitting infinitives is standard English usage.
00:38:48 <shachaf> to go where no man has gone before
00:38:55 <kmc> yeah i'm with coppro here
00:39:00 <Vorpal> pikhq_, well yeah. I boldly say what people didn't use to say before I guess
00:39:19 <pikhq_> It's even really *old* English usage.
00:39:19 <Vorpal> (okay that was awkward)
00:39:25 <kmc> let's all find a way to split infinitives while talking about how split infinitives are great
00:39:53 <shachaf> I once read a book called _Split Infinity_
00:39:56 <pikhq_> Admittedly, it only became common more recently.
00:39:56 <shachaf> I guess it was a pun on that?
00:39:58 <zzo38> Vorpal: Yes of course I was planning to or 128 rather than add it
00:40:00 <shachaf> I didn't think about it at the time.
00:40:53 <Vorpal> actually it could enable some dynamic reordering in the CPU since it could help with dependencies on the MSB in that byte. In theory
00:41:13 <zzo38> I think LLVM ought to have a command which may do addition, OR, XOR, but it is not defined which.
00:41:33 <Vorpal> it isn't very well defined usually
00:41:52 <zzo38> In some cases all three operations would lead to the same result
00:42:11 <Vorpal> anyway iirc the CPU only does dependencies on each byte of a register iirc
00:42:24 <zzo38> In some C programs I have written I have wanted to have such an instruction
00:43:07 <Vorpal> zzo38, I very much doubt xor is good on most CPUs
00:43:14 <Vorpal> too complex dependency handling
00:43:44 <Vorpal> (unless you are xoring a register with itself, which means clear on x86 and is special cased in dependency analysis on sandy bridge at least)
00:43:57 <Vorpal> (which the intel CPU for which I have read the docs in question)
00:44:23 <zzo38> In this case I will use OR, but I am just saying that the result would be the same regardless, and the program that compiles the LLVM into the native code should decide what to use.
00:45:07 -!- Gregor has set topic: Food is just pals you eat. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/fePD.
00:45:13 <zzo38> But not only that; using this ambiguous instruction may also allow certain optimizations to be performed even before compiling to native code.
00:45:40 <zzo38> Is it OK in .IT for multiple sample headings to point to the same audio data?
00:46:06 <zzo38> Vorpal: I don't actually know if there are any; I just gave an example in case it is possible
00:46:14 <Vorpal> Gregor, it is up again? What was the issue?
00:46:50 <Gregor> Mostly... PHP session files...
00:47:20 <zzo38> Then don't use PHP session files
00:47:24 <Vorpal> Gregor, shouldn't they be cleared out after a while?
00:47:33 <Gregor> Vorpal: Hypothetically.
00:47:33 <Vorpal> if not just set up a cron job for it
00:47:43 <Vorpal> set up a cron job that looks at the atime
00:47:52 <Vorpal> Gregor, also why the fuck are you using php?
00:48:22 <Vorpal> Gregor, really I thought you would have used node.js since you are a js guy
00:48:37 <Vorpal> I just wouldn't believe you as a php guy
00:48:42 <Gregor> Perl is one of the few languages worse than PHP.
00:48:51 <Gregor> And Node.js is a pain to use for simple web pages.
00:49:22 <elliott> Gregor: Did I link you to that video about node.js?
00:49:32 <Vorpal> elliott, I haven't seen it. Link me
00:49:58 <elliott> Vorpal: It's the dumbest "anti-node.js" video ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e1zzna-dNw
00:50:18 <kmc> is the joke something involving hipsters
00:50:52 <elliott> kmc: just watch it, i'll give you a prize if you manage to make it through the whole thing
00:50:58 <kmc> ok i'm not going to then
00:51:30 <elliott> kmc: are you telling me you don't thrive on stupid things
00:51:40 <elliott> think how much you could complain about it in here
00:51:41 <kmc> i have a limited appetite for stupid things
00:51:52 <kmc> likewise i thrive on cheesy fries but if i eat too many I will get sick
00:51:56 <kmc> (cheesy chips for you UKians)
00:52:08 <kmc> easy squeezy cheesy peas
00:52:08 <elliott> thank you, i did not know what a fry was!!!!!!
00:52:15 <kmc> elliott: glad i could help
00:52:16 <Gregor> elliott: The title is already promising...
00:52:38 <elliott> Gregor: again, prize if you make it through the whole thing
00:52:47 <Gregor> I'm not good at that kind of challenge.
00:52:55 <zzo38> I think Perl and JavaScript and C and Haskell and so on are better than PHP.
00:53:00 <Gregor> I can't even make it through a whole episode of Everybody Loves Raymond.
00:53:04 <zzo38> All of them can be used with webpages as well as other use.
00:53:25 <shachaf> kmc: I've yet to eat anything today.
00:53:38 <kmc> cheesy chips?
00:53:40 <elliott> Gregor: Did you know JavaScript is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooow?
00:53:49 <elliott> Think how much you could be learning from that video!
00:54:02 <kmc> so what does the person who made the video think you should use instead
00:54:27 <Gregor> elliott: I love when people have voices worse than mine.
00:54:31 <Gregor> It makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
00:54:41 <elliott> other videos from this guy include: Epson Booth Babes Do A Dance
00:54:46 <elliott> Yeah this makes me want to buy an Epson printer. I mean how many do I have to buy to get a free booth babe? Conferences in Japan are so much sexier than the ones we have here. Girls performing dance routines are pretty common place for all sorts of products ranging from the latest cellphone to Epson printers. Even copy machine paper companies have dancing girls.
00:55:03 <Gregor> lol, he actually thinks JS is slow, doesn't he.
00:55:05 <kmc> women can be bought and sold as property
00:55:07 <kmc> true facts
00:55:24 <elliott> Gregor: i assume the rest of the video is even better but have not yet got to that part
00:55:25 <shachaf> *People* can be bought and sold as property.
00:55:31 <kmc> shachaf: it's your fault you got offended!
00:55:43 <kmc> i'm just a straight talking honest joe, telling it like it is
00:55:47 <Gregor> "non-blocking" means it doesn't have to write to the hard drive!
00:55:55 <elliott> oh right i remembered that
00:55:59 <kmc> if you're offended by my sexist/racist comments, it's your fault and you probably chose to be offended for a political reason
00:56:18 <Gregor> Apparently calculating pi is blocking.
00:56:25 <Gregor> Wow, this guy seriously has no fucking clue what he's talking about.
00:56:37 <kmc> node.js is cancer and the only cure is a massive dose of radiation
00:56:41 <kmc> preferably enough to kill all life on earth
00:57:07 <kmc> if you want something not stupid to read about node, i enjoyed nelhage's blog post
00:57:10 <kmc> http://blog.nelhage.com/2012/03/why-node-js-is-cool/
00:57:18 <elliott> Gregor: his hand movement is great
00:57:27 <elliott> he just kind of waves it about when he realises he has no arguments
00:57:36 <kmc> tldr: it's not about performance, dumbasses, it's about enforcing a standard, composable way to handle events
00:57:43 <shachaf> kmc: What he says is true but also depressing.
00:57:44 <elliott> YOU EITHER HAVE TO BE READING THE DATA
00:57:47 <elliott> OR YOU HAVE TO BE WRITING THE DATA
00:57:58 <elliott> AND ONE OF THOSE THINGS IS GOING TO BLOCK
00:57:58 <Gregor> Urrrrgh, "real-time" is the only bit that's really an out-and-out lie, and he dismissed it as stupidly as everything else.
00:58:00 <kmc> that way doesn't have to be "single threaded async with callbacks" but that's what node uses
00:58:09 <elliott> Real-time! Well, it's JavaScript!
00:58:26 <elliott> Distributed devices, eh, maybe. Maybe.
00:58:50 <elliott> Gregor: I have to agree with an "end-to-end JavaScript experience" not sounding like a good thing, though.
00:58:52 <zzo38> JavaScript is slow but so is PHP and Ruby and other interpreted programming languages (other than Forth).
00:59:03 <Gregor> elliott: Yes, but this guy is SO, SO BAD.
00:59:22 <elliott> "Hard to tell whether that one's real."
00:59:28 <elliott> node.js: a CONSPIRACY OF LIES.
00:59:40 <Gregor> I'm not even particularly a fan of Node.
00:59:58 <shachaf> I should start a website whose whole premise is to post really stupid articles to make people like Gregor link to them.
01:00:01 <elliott> node requires its OWN HTTP SERVER
01:00:17 <elliott> "You don't just run, you know, Apache"
01:00:33 <elliott> you have to install THEIR thing
01:00:36 <kmc> zzo38: javascript JITs do much better than popular implementations of PHP and Ruby
01:00:55 <kmc> i saw a project trying to port node.js style to LuaJIT
01:00:56 <Gregor> elliott: I watched it all.
01:00:57 <kmc> that's a cool idea
01:01:14 <Gregor> elliott: WHERE'S MY FUCKING PRIZE
01:01:20 <elliott> Gregor: your prize is everything you've learned about node.js
01:01:37 <elliott> kmc: does it solve the part where you have to write in cps
01:01:47 <elliott> Gregor: It doesn't follow the RFC model.
01:01:48 <shachaf> Doesn't Lua have coroutines?
01:02:13 <elliott> shachaf: does it solve the part where you can't use any existing code that does any kind of non-trivial calculation
01:02:25 <elliott> i mean node.js isn't all bad or "hipster" or anything
01:02:31 <elliott> but its concurrency stance is really kinda dumb
01:02:31 <shachaf> elliott: Coöperative multitasking is a reasonable tradeoff.
01:02:57 <shachaf> It has nothing to do with Continuation CPS-passing style.
01:03:31 <elliott> shachaf: It does when everything is callback-structured like node is.
01:03:37 <elliott> With coroutines, yes, it's less painful.
01:03:38 <shachaf> elliott: Not *necessarily*.
01:03:45 <shachaf> You could have multiple threads handling events.
01:03:49 <elliott> But you still have to be careful about your computations.
01:03:53 <shachaf> Admittedly that would be kind of weird.
01:03:59 <elliott> shachaf: That kind of defeats the point of node.js?
01:04:04 <shachaf> Anyway I can tell this channel is a bunch of h8rs.
01:04:10 <elliott> Our aim is most thoroughly hecked.
01:04:28 <elliott> do you think they know we're still mocking them
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01:04:55 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, but either way compiled programming languages generally work faster and may not use as much memory as interpreter
01:05:07 <zzo38> So use a compiled programming language
01:05:18 <zzo38> Such as, C and Haskell
01:05:28 <kmc> JITs can produce better code
01:07:59 <elliott> what is a compiled programming language
01:08:03 <elliott> there are haskell interpreters
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01:09:07 <quintopia> !bfjoust return_of_ais523_speedy2 >>>>>>>>(>[-[++[---]]])*21
01:09:10 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_return_of_ais523_speedy2: 25.3
01:10:19 <zzo38> Yes, Haskell can be interpreted as well as compiled; it is commonly used both ways. C is almost always compiled, although there is C interpreter as well.
01:14:01 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation ->->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:14:04 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 36.6
01:14:10 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:14:13 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 37.1
01:14:44 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<-->>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:14:47 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 37.6
01:15:11 <EgoBot> Score for shachaf_hi: 8.4
01:15:12 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*16<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:15:14 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 37.7
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01:19:10 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
01:21:34 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*7<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*15[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:21:37 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 38.7
01:22:18 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*7<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:22:21 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 46.8
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01:34:13 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*4(+)*10<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:34:16 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 45.7
01:34:32 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*4(+)*7<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:34:35 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 45.8
01:35:00 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*10<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:35:03 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 45.6
01:35:10 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*4<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:35:13 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 45.6
01:35:28 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*7<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*24 ]++)*25
01:35:30 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 46.8
01:35:48 <shachaf> !bfjoust hello h+e+l+l+o+.....
01:35:51 <EgoBot> Score for shachaf_hello: 10.2
01:36:11 <quintopia> it has to be exactly seven, exactly 3 away to work...more or less hurts it
01:41:06 <elliott> quintopia: use ais' constant-tweaking program already
01:43:51 <quintopia> !bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*7<<(+[<{}])%28>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*2(>)*7 (>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*22]++)*24
01:43:53 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_brachiation: 47.3
01:43:53 <elliott> Gregor: That node.js guy thinks people use CGI instead.
01:44:10 <elliott> Gregor: He explicitly says it at the end of the video.
01:44:16 <elliott> CGI is the Common Gateway Interface. It is how almost every Web Server on the planet works. Rather than doing something elaborate you just "print" to the http port. There may be a buffer, or not, but essentially it is no different than outputting to the command line.
01:44:38 <elliott> Yes, But RFC 3875 is the model for almost all web serving. CGI is not the same as .CGI files it is a standard for the communication between server and client.
01:44:38 <elliott> BlackwaterOpsDotCom in reply to businessgeek 1 month ago
01:44:56 <elliott> This guy must be some kind of troll.
01:47:27 <elliott> A - a +2,+4 ring of slaying (1.0 aum)
01:59:49 <quintopia> !bfjoust return_of_ais523_definder2 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/c41abe18a522/ais523_definder2.bfjoust
01:59:53 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_return_of_ais523_definder2: 20.9
02:00:49 <quintopia> !bfjoust return_of_ais523_definder http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/aa2598db68b0/ais523_definder.bfjoust
02:00:53 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_return_of_ais523_definder: 25.9
02:01:39 <quintopia> !bfjoust return_of_ais523_definder2 <
02:01:41 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_return_of_ais523_definder2: 0.0
02:07:20 <Gregor> !bfjoust return_of_suicide <
02:07:23 <EgoBot> Score for Gregor_return_of_suicide: 0.0
02:12:31 <elliott> quintopia: so remember interior_crocodile_alligator
02:13:33 <elliott> quintopia: how many orders of magnitude has making a viable warrior become since then
02:13:35 <quintopia> it was the spiritual successor of anti-space_elevator
02:13:48 <quintopia> and probably the origination of the reverse offset clear
02:14:48 <quintopia> elliott: making a viable warrior doesnt' *progress* does it? it's all rock-paper-scissors :P
02:15:02 <elliott> quintopia: of course it progresses in the skill you need
02:15:21 <elliott> space_elevator and all of the modern warriors are vastly more complicated to beat than 2009's warriors were
02:15:49 <quintopia> and you still haven't studied the hill have you?
02:16:03 -!- quintopia has set topic: Food is just pals you eat. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/YULh.
02:16:41 <quintopia> and you never made your chevrolet_movie_theater
02:16:52 <elliott> i guess that's what i'll call this next one
02:16:53 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
02:16:59 <quintopia> it wouldnt take you long, if you even cared to learn
02:17:09 <elliott> i don't learn, i just put the pieces together until it works
02:17:27 <FireFly> you people and your bfjoust program names
02:17:43 <elliott> FireFly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZwhNFOn4ik
02:18:29 <quintopia> !bfjoust return_of_elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator (>)*9([-[++[(-)*128([-{([+{[-]}])%64}])%64]]]>)*20(-)*128
02:18:32 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_return_of_elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator: 24.2
02:18:42 <elliott> at least it's on the hill again
02:18:48 <elliott> when did it get pushed off
02:19:16 <elliott> quintopia: i mean last time
02:19:17 <quintopia> elliott: near the end of last february
02:19:26 <elliott> huh? no it was on when werecat revived things
02:20:23 <quintopia> elliott: it does still beat space_elevator at least :P
02:20:55 <quintopia> nothing i can do against a clear that ridiculous
02:21:20 <elliott> quintopia: if i tell you my plan will you promise not to counter it/plan how to before i unleash it on the hill
02:23:25 <quintopia> only if i can use the results myself if they are awesome enough :P
02:24:43 <elliott> (a) is not a fast rush, yet
02:24:46 <elliott> (b) uses *no* decoys whatsoever
02:25:00 <elliott> i have several sub-ideas to try on top of this structure
02:26:40 <elliott> quintopia: what's a good standard representative few warriors to test things out with egojsout
02:26:58 -!- quintopia has set topic: Food is just pals you eat. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/aSVX.
02:27:45 <elliott> well i need to test my warriors against other things with egojsout as i develop
02:27:55 <elliott> so what are a few warriors that are representative of the strategies used on the current hill
02:27:57 <quintopia> did anyone do anything special for father's day?
02:27:58 <elliott> that i can use to develop my program with
02:28:12 <quintopia> elliott: insidious2 and atehwa_test_blah for fast rush
02:28:24 <elliott> my program will inevitably lose to fast rushes
02:28:39 <elliott> quintopia: or did you misread my (a)
02:28:40 <quintopia> ffspg, ffldg, and lead_acetate_philip
02:28:52 <quintopia> elliott: it doesnt have to! if it defends
02:28:52 <elliott> ok i meant like a list of 3 programs :P
02:29:13 <elliott> i'll just go spelevator, whichever one werecat's top is
02:29:17 <elliott> and one other, probably ais523's top
02:29:32 <elliott> quintopia: it will not be a conventional defence program
02:30:13 <quintopia> elliott: i gave you 8 names out of 47. you really do need to understand those in order to do well.
02:30:32 <quintopia> (10 if you count the fast rushes you say you care naught about)
02:33:12 <elliott> quintopia: you don't understand
02:33:15 <elliott> i wrote ica understanding no programs
02:34:08 <elliott> quintopia: (>)*12 beats spelevator on one tape length
02:34:51 <quintopia> because that extra step saves it hundreds of cycles against other programs
02:34:57 <quintopia> it makes up for the few times it suicides
02:35:32 <quintopia> i think i mentioned it in the writeup
02:36:24 <quintopia> "After it returns to build this extra decoy, it assumes it must be on a longer tape and rushes ahead to two spaces ahead of where it knows it is safe to go. This causes it to suicide against some opponents on certain tape lengths, but successfully compensates for the fact that it builds far fewer decoys in this situation by ignoring some of the opponent's decoys."
02:37:19 <quintopia> elliott: also you prove my point. ica never did well. :P
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02:37:53 <quintopia> same as john's programs never did well...he actively avoids looking at other programs on the hill
02:38:35 <quintopia> also he should update that retro programming article eh
02:38:50 <elliott> quintopia: uh it was top 5 for a while iirc
02:39:30 <quintopia> elliott: i dont recall that. in any case, it doesnt suck as much as everything else you've submitted, so that's cool
02:42:12 <quintopia> elliott: make me eat my words. write a champion.
02:42:22 <elliott> i'l lnever write a champion
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02:50:55 <quintopia> apparently ica does not beat counterpoke. counterpoke is a beast.
02:50:58 <elliott> quintopia: how many tape lengths do you think is reasonable to sacrifice
02:51:16 <quintopia> elliott: as many as increases your score
02:51:28 <elliott> quintopia: how many would you design around
02:51:48 <quintopia> i'm not sure in what sense you mean to sacrifice them
02:52:46 <quintopia> skipping more than one or two cells ahead tends to cause lowering of score, but of course, the actual optimal value depends on the rest of the program
02:52:53 <elliott> quintopia: by definitely suiciding
02:53:13 <quintopia> elliott: like, using a rule-of-11 at the beginning or somet?
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02:55:02 <quintopia> elliott: it doesnt gain you much, but if you expect to lose short tapes anyway, it also doesnt hurt
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02:55:24 <elliott> helps more w/o yr dumb score changes
02:55:30 <elliott> argue my side in this argument please
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02:58:17 <quintopia> elliott: how do you know it helps more w/o score changes
02:58:54 <elliott> because the lengths you sacrifice don't count against you
02:59:25 <quintopia> just perhaps by not as much (depending on opponent)
02:59:59 <quintopia> in the current system, the number of lengths you win is factored into your points, which is a part of the score
03:00:37 <quintopia> in the current system, losing on a tape length hurts you equally no matter how good your opponent
03:00:55 <quintopia> in the new system it would hurt you more if you lost a tape length to a bad opponent
03:01:14 <elliott> "the number of lengths you win is factored into your points" wait, it is?
03:01:24 <elliott> the current system is broken too then
03:01:56 <quintopia> everyone else has always thought it worked p well
03:03:45 <elliott> "everyone" includes me, so no
03:04:07 <quintopia> have you considered the fact that in a fixed-point winner-take-all system, all someone has to do get the highest possible score (thereby leaving everyone else with a score of 0.0) is to barely beat every other program?
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03:04:22 <quintopia> this is a whole lot easier than beating every other program on every length and polarity
03:04:49 <elliott> i very much doubt anyone can write a program which beats every other one with current skills
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03:05:06 <elliott> if you do it's a momentous event and the scores will be messed whatever happens
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03:08:33 <quintopia> elliott: yes it's difficult, but it's been done before and i think it could happen again
03:08:55 <quintopia> elliott: and if it does, no program except the champion gets ranked. it's a degenerate case.
03:09:22 <quintopia> (if the hill had 100 programs on it, i would agree with you that it was essentially impossible)
03:11:48 <elliott> well that program has essentially obliterated the competitoin
03:11:57 <elliott> all you need to do to fix it is beat it
03:12:32 <quintopia> so you are okay with the game being broken just because one program is good?
03:12:50 <quintopia> i kinda like the idea that even in that situation, we'd still have meaningful rankings
03:12:59 <elliott> if one program beats every other program then yes the game is in dire trouble
03:14:40 <quintopia> not if "beats" is defined as "wins more than loses against"
03:14:54 <quintopia> since it is almost certainly losing on *some* lengths and polarities
03:55:43 <shachaf> elliott: If I played a roguelike would you watch?
03:56:08 <elliott> shachaf: what roguelike would it be
03:57:20 <shachaf> what about: robotfindskitten
03:58:01 <elliott> it's a single-player zen experience
03:58:34 <shachaf> what about crawl heavy :'(
03:58:40 <quintopia> last year someone mentioned a hill for short programs, and i think that's actually a good idea. easy to implement too: just make an identical hill to egojoust, but change the command for it so it doesn't accept URLs anymore.
03:58:45 <coppro> 93% of data requests fully or partially complied with
03:58:55 <coppro> "We received a request from the Passport Canada office to remove a YouTube video of a Canadian citizen urinating on his passport and flushing it down the toilet. We did not comply with this request."
03:59:00 <elliott> quintopia: not easy to implement
03:59:05 <elliott> you'd have to add a special-case to egobot's inner code
04:00:40 <elliott> quintopia: i have read egobot's code
04:00:44 <elliott> the urls work for every command
04:00:50 <elliott> what evidence do you have for your position
04:01:21 <quintopia> even if you're right, it's still easy to implement
04:01:34 <quintopia> just add a line to the command that truncates the file :P
04:01:40 <elliott> i don't think a hill for short programs is good
04:01:45 <elliott> most long programs just want better macro facilities
04:02:13 <quintopia> but i think it would be fun to see what people could do with compression
04:03:28 <quintopia> (i do still support the idea of adding c-style macros to bfjoust syntax)
04:06:07 <quintopia> you can make them unugly by changing the syntax
04:07:15 <shachaf> Fun fact! "adom" is the Hebrew word for "red".
04:09:37 <elliott> shachaf: ADOM is awful. But I'll watch it.
04:10:18 <shachaf> elliott: Would you watch Zork Zero?
04:10:43 <elliott> shachaf: http://ancardia.wikia.com/wiki/Jaakkos'_server
04:10:49 <shachaf> Would you watch Zork: Grand Inquisitor?
04:11:22 <elliott> Looks like the server is down.
04:11:26 <shachaf> It's against my principles to play ADOM anyway.
04:12:29 <elliott> "It's possible under Windows to monitor and, I believe, intercept calls to external libraries, much like under Linux. However, ADOM is a DOS program, so that doesn't help any. (There is a Windows port of ADOM, but it's only in beta.) DOS doesn't have external libraries - all of the functions that ADOM Sage needs to monitor and intercept are inside the code, so getting at them would require disassembling ADOM. (This is an oversimplification - see
04:12:29 <elliott> the section on DOS for details.)
04:12:29 <elliott> So instead ADOM Sage takes the Linux version of ADOM and makes it run under Windows. Windows allows a program to set up its address space to match that of a Linux program, and in most other respects (function calling conventions, register usage, structure padding, instruction set, etc.) Windows and Linux are identical, so this isn't too difficult to do. Additionally, Linux programs (like Windows programs) contain detailed information about functi
04:12:32 <elliott> ons that they expect the operating system to provide, so ADOM Sage can redirect those function requests to Windows or to its own internal routines.
04:12:35 <elliott> Windows programs do differ from Linux programs in how they allocate stack space. So ADOM Sage simply takes allocates all available stack space before doing anything else. A bit wasteful on memory, but it's simple and effective."
04:12:43 <elliott> "Running a Linux program under Windows consists of interpreting the ELF file format used by Linux programs, loading the program into the Windows program's address space, and then transferring control to the Linux program, redirecting any requests for Linux library functions to equivalent Windows functions. ADOM uses two libraries - libc and ncurses. Most of libc's functions are available in Microsoft's C runtime library. Functions from ncurses ar
04:12:44 <elliott> e handled by PDCurses; I had to hack PDCurses to make it more compatible with ncurses. (For these purposes it's not enough to be compatible at the source level - macros, constants, and structure layouts all have to match so that code is compatible at the binary level.)"
04:12:48 <elliott> Gregor: You were so preempted.
04:13:56 <elliott> shachaf: telnet light.bitprayer.com
04:15:23 <shachaf> elliott: I told you, man, principles.
04:16:07 <elliott> ok then the answer is no, i won't watch you play a roguelike
04:16:16 <shachaf> elliott: What about NetHack?
04:16:37 <shachaf> Come on, I'd be so bad at SLASH'EM.
04:16:41 <shachaf> I haven't played it in years.
04:16:45 <shachaf> And I was never very good.
04:17:01 <shachaf> #ESOTERIC IS A STUPID GAME
04:18:13 <elliott> so did you have any intention of actually playing any of these when you pinged me
04:18:32 <shachaf> I'd play SLASH'EM or NetHack.
04:20:34 <elliott> two of those games are boring and one is boring to watch
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04:24:24 <kmc> shachaf: the only winning move is not to play
04:24:32 <kmc> but we've already established that i'm a Loser
04:25:00 <kmc> it's from the blog article series i keep talking about
04:25:06 <kmc> http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/
04:25:12 <shachaf> Can you be a 𝕃oser instead?
04:25:14 <kmc> <kmc> i'm intoxicated by the idea that this amusing, somewhat farcical mainstream sitcom is actually a coded guide to sociopathic realpolitik at the highest levels
04:25:19 <shachaf> Hmm, that's a non-BMP character right there.
04:25:24 <kmc> that came through as a replacement character
04:25:50 <kmc> mosh translates any character which is unknown by the locale into the replacement character
04:26:04 <kmc> cause it needs to know the width of each character
04:26:27 <shachaf> Wait, Unicode doesn't have MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL L?
04:26:54 <shachaf> 1D4A6 MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL K [𝒦]
04:26:55 <shachaf> 1D4A9 MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL N [𝒩]
04:27:03 <kmc> but there is SCRIPT CAPITAL L
04:27:11 <shachaf> My terminal also renders K and N but not 1D4A7
04:27:12 <kmc> http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/script.html
04:27:24 <kmc> ah, i think some of them were included in the BMP
04:27:29 <kmc> and the rest are "MATHEMATICAL"
04:27:31 <shachaf> kmc: Yes, but I can't find this one.
04:27:33 <kmc> i saw that one
04:27:40 <shachaf> I know the situation with the DOUBLE-STRUCK letters.
04:27:53 <shachaf> Oh, maybe it's the same thing here.
04:28:37 <shachaf> 02117 SOUND RECORDING COPYRIGHT [℗]
04:29:02 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92
04:34:03 <shachaf> 02247 NEITHER APPROXIMATELY NOR ACTUALLY EQUAL TO [≇]
04:34:16 <kmc> \scumbagmathematician{invents a way to write bold letters on blackboard}{uses it in print to mean something different from bold}
04:34:21 <shachaf> I guess I'd better start using that for things taht are *really* different.
04:34:22 <kmc> shachaf: -_-
04:34:30 <shachaf> 02246 APPROXIMATELY BUT NOT ACTUALLY EQUAL TO [≆]
04:34:33 <kmc> what about "actually but not approximately equal to"
04:34:48 <elliott> kmc: i don't like blackboard bold
04:35:32 <shachaf> 1B48F BASICALLY THE SAME THING AS FOR ANYTHING YOU CARE ABOUT []
04:35:56 <kmc> ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█ ＵＮＩＣＯＤＥ █▇▆▅▄▃▂▁
04:36:28 <kmc> ░░░░▒▒▒▒▓▓▓▓████
04:39:46 <kmc> 1A037 ANYONE REALLY BEEN FAR EVEN AS DECIDED TO USE EVEN GO WANT TO DO LOOK MORE LIKE [�]
04:41:56 <shachaf> 0FBF9 ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM [ﯹ]
04:42:35 <elliott> my favourite is still GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA
04:42:40 <coppro> elliott: http://blognomic.com/archive/a_new_era1/
04:42:49 <kmc> shachaf: uighur please
04:43:13 <elliott> coppro: upset that you had to justify a core rules scam
04:43:37 <shachaf> All these great non-BMP codepoints I can't use in here. :-(
04:44:08 <elliott> shachaf: why can't you us ethem
04:44:20 <shachaf> elliott: Because my IRCthing ir borken!<
04:45:45 <shachaf> 00753 ARABIC LETTER BEH WITH THREE DOTS POINTING UPWARDS BELOW AND TWO DOTS ABOVE [ݓ]
04:45:48 <shachaf> 00753 ARABIC LETTER BEH WITH THREE DOTS POINTING UPWARDS BELOW AND TWO DOTS ABOVE [ݓ]
04:46:34 <shachaf> 01F9E GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ETA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI AND PROSGEGRAMMENI [ᾞ]
04:46:59 <fizzie> 1F502 CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY does get pretty long too.
04:47:24 <shachaf> What do you call things that aren't in the BMP?
04:47:55 <shachaf> 0FE3D PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL LEFT DOUBLE ANGLE BRACKET [︽]
04:48:21 <fizzie> 1D1CE MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-3.
04:50:36 <shachaf> 02A92 GREATER-THAN ABOVE LESS-THAN ABOVE DOUBLE-LINE EQUAL [⪒]
04:50:51 <fizzie> elliott: Yes; the two preceding characters are DIMINUTION-1 and DIMINUTION-2.
04:51:37 <shachaf> Where can I get an up-to-date Unicode list of symbols file thing?
04:52:18 <shachaf> Hey, you can buy Unicode 6.1 as a book.
04:52:21 <shachaf> This 692-page volume may be purchased from Lulu.com for $15.96, plus shipping.
04:52:36 <elliott> <shachaf> Where can I get an up-to-date Unicode list of symbols file thing?
04:52:36 <fizzie> I would expect ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt to be up to date, since it doesn't mention a version.
04:52:39 <elliott> there's a textfile somewhere on - yeah
04:53:07 <shachaf> elliott: Ew, what a terrible format.
04:53:11 <fizzie> It lacks the sample letters, though.
04:53:13 <shachaf> I might have to write a few lines of code to parse it.
04:54:09 <shachaf> Code should be measured in cache lines instead of code lines.
04:54:23 <shachaf> This is 1000 Lines of Cache.
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04:54:51 <shachaf> elliott: Can you explain the format please?
04:55:27 <shachaf> fizzie: Can you explain the format please?
04:56:02 <fizzie> First and second columns are code point and the name, for the most part.
04:56:17 <fizzie> Columns are separated by ;. Other columns are boring.
04:56:44 <fizzie> Well, control characters have <control> in there and name in column 11 or something.
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05:10:55 <zzo38> Do you prefer to specify the altitude by sea level or relative to center of the Earth?
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05:30:42 <elliott> coppro: I like how you got a CfJ to invalidate your scam immediately afterwards.
05:30:47 <elliott> coppro: Title "Because I dislike core rules scams".
05:30:54 <elliott> BlogNomic: the worst nomic.
05:31:16 <coppro> elliott: yeah but it didn't get a single FOR vote
05:31:16 <elliott> [[Its there so that if enough people would rather not have you win, we have that option. There is no fair play rule against this either. Please don’t be a hypocrite and call this “petty” while exposing core rules scams.
05:31:27 <elliott> wasn't clucky whining a lot about the agoran scam too
05:31:49 <elliott> "Personally, I think core rules are still just rules, so scams are still valid."
05:31:53 <elliott> hey maybe there is hope forBN
05:33:17 <elliott> coppro: scam clucky out of the game
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05:50:30 <quintopia> elliott: i admire your use of hash consing on the lazy evaluation talk page
05:52:26 <quintopia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_consing
05:52:38 <quintopia> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Lazy_evaluation
05:53:20 <elliott> i know whatoihe hasoih cosicnsoign is
05:53:23 <elliott> okew oiy i ghetio it noaiwe
05:54:19 <elliott> monqy: myabe migrate sil talk here
05:54:28 <elliott> i just realised it was in #crawligithio oops
05:58:31 <fizzie> Millions of ops per second can be handled by today's computational machines.
05:59:18 * shachaf can "handle" several ops per second.
05:59:31 <shachaf> fizzie: /mode #esoteric +o elliott
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06:17:27 <shachaf> kmc: Remember AOL keywords?
06:19:34 <kmc> not really
06:20:04 <zzo38> Is it allowed in .IT file for multiple sample headings to point to the same address of the audio data?
06:22:25 <shachaf> All of the above were part-time activities he assumed in conjunction with his primary position as Director of the Computer Networks Division ("Division 7") of the Information Sciences Institute at the University of Southern California.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]
06:49:41 <fizzie> zzo38: I doubt that's actually been specified anywhere, but I'd *guess* it's likely to work in most (if not all) players.
06:57:15 <Taneb> I think I was connected all night
07:04:22 <zzo38> fizzie: Which players would it not work with?
07:04:42 <fizzie> zzo38: I don't know, I haven't tested. It might easily work with all.
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07:22:17 <Sgeo> I accidentally got my gf addicted to xkcd
07:22:53 <Taneb> Well, at least it's not Ctrl-Alt-Delete
07:23:44 <zzo38> fizzie: Do you know if any existing files use that?
07:24:31 <kmc> Sgeo: new xkcd or old xkcd?
07:25:00 <Sgeo> Well, she's pressing random and linking me to the ones she likes
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07:28:38 <kmc> "show her goatkcd"
07:29:37 <kmc> honestly smbc has a lot of crap strips too
07:29:38 <quintopia> goattkcd does tend to be about x times funnier
07:29:41 <kmc> especially because it updates every day
07:29:50 <kmc> but the bad ones don't annoy me as much
07:29:54 <elliott> smbc's tone is a lot less annoying
07:29:59 <quintopia> kmc: signal to oise ratio is fairly high
07:30:09 <kmc> people generally aren't like "zomg smbc embodies everything about being a nerd"
07:30:26 <quintopia> plus zach weiner is accessible and interesting as an online persona
07:30:31 <kmc> it's pretty honest to what it claims to be / what people think it is
07:30:38 <quintopia> an entertainer without pretention or angst
07:30:56 <zzo38> Also, could this multiple pointing to same address be used to make just intonation if the C5Speed is adjusted?
07:32:33 <zzo38> (Other uses would be to change loops, or to start a sample at a different position than normal, or different vibrato)
07:32:55 <shachaf> kmc: Did you like XKCD before it was mainstream?
07:32:57 <quintopia> zzo38: youd have to add a parameter for what key itistuned in then
07:33:38 <kmc> shachaf: no, i liked it starting when it became mainstream and for a while after that
07:33:59 <kmc> at least, I found out about it when seemingly all my other friends did
07:34:09 <kmc> i guess it 'went viral' as they say
07:34:19 <kmc> but maybe my friends are not "mainstream"
07:34:50 <kmc> i would say the era of "every slide deck about a software project must have one xkcd strip in it" was a bit later
07:35:16 <kmc> there was also a period when it seemed like every blog -- regardless of their normal content -- would repost xkcd strips as they came out
07:36:06 <zzo38> quintopia: How do you mean?
07:36:34 <zzo38> O, I think I know what you meant
07:38:03 <zzo38> Of course there would be a way to input what key it is tuned in if you want to make just intonation; but that does not need to be saved tothe .IT file
07:43:15 <fizzie> zzo38: I don't think Impulse Tracker itself writes that kind of files, at least, but I'm not sure.
07:43:58 <zzo38> fizzie: Perhaps Impulse Tracker doesn't, but does any other program do so, or only my own program ITMCK?
07:44:06 <elliott> fizzie: how do you add a user to a group i forgot help
07:46:31 <Gregor> usermod -a <user> -G <group>
07:46:41 <Gregor> Don't forget the -a or you'll regret it.
07:47:03 <Gregor> Overwrite the users groups with ONLY the one listed (i.e., remove them from all other groups)
07:47:52 <Gregor> I suspect that's inherited from something, probably Solaris.
07:50:40 <elliott> Gregor: after i do that how do i get a new termina lwith that group active
07:51:04 <Gregor> Painfully. If you just need one terminal, I usually just let su do it for me, i.e. su - <yourself>
07:51:08 <Gregor> Otherwise log out and back in.
07:51:29 <elliott> why are standard terminals not login terminals
07:51:53 <Gregor> Being a login terminal is not sufficient, that couldn't magically give it groups it didn't inherit.
07:52:18 <fizzie> No need to su, you can just 'newgrp'.
07:52:25 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know groups are a property of a process, not of a user?
07:52:26 <elliott> 12:46 "My friend's brother's ex-wife's uncle's old schoolmate inherited some
07:52:26 <elliott> money, bought shares of Decos Bananas Co. and became a millionaire. I
07:52:27 <elliott> think of it as an example of how anyone can become rich and happy if he
07:52:43 <Gregor> fizzie: Well, there's a command I didn't know exists.
07:52:59 <fizzie> It's not especially any better.
07:53:19 <kmc> yeah the groups come from /bin/login
07:53:24 <kmc> which is setuid and so can confer them
07:53:44 <fizzie> It's really meant for changing the actual group ID, but ISTR it can be used to refresh the supplementary groups too.
07:54:30 <fizzie> "Also tries to add the group to the user groupset" that sort of thing.
08:12:16 <olsner> "Why do you need "a+b" to concatenate strings? You can always just "new StringBuffer().add(a).add(b).toString()", which is just as easy to write."
08:12:34 <olsner> ... I hope it's a troll :)
08:12:53 <kmc> i mean if you press + in a Java IDE that's what you get, right?
08:13:14 <kmc> just like if you press a+b in a C compiler, you get "add %rax, %rdx"
08:13:21 <shachaf> Java IDEs are pretty good.
08:13:39 <shachaf> I think Java is a secret plan to improve the state of tools for working with code.
08:13:45 <shachaf> Because it's just unworkable any other way.
08:13:56 <kmc> did you see http://www.eclipse.org/xtend/ ?
08:14:00 <shachaf> I found out about "dependency injection" recently.
08:14:08 <shachaf> I mean, what it apparently actually means.
08:14:14 <kmc> it's one of these "better Java than Java" projects
08:14:34 <kmc> interesting because it comes from the Eclipse people and so good tool support is a top priority
08:15:33 <kmc> it fits into some Eclipse magic sauce where you can define your own DSL or syntactic extensions to Java and get not only a compiler to JVM but full Eclipse support basically for free
08:16:41 <elliott> Howcome in Haskell, when there is a value that would be discarded, () is used instead of ⊥?
08:17:19 <kmc> elliott: you see both
08:17:25 <elliott> stop assuming im idiots you fuckers
08:17:32 <elliott> when i say something silly i'm quoting someone else :(
08:17:46 <Gregor> elliott: Obviously, and I'm just responding with something equally silly.
08:18:00 <olsner> elliott: don't forget the quotes when you quote
08:18:09 <shachaf> elliott: STOP ASSUMING GREGOR IS IDIOTS
08:18:09 <kmc> oh, i thought this was like "should forever :: M a -> M b or forever :: M a -> M ()"
08:18:38 <elliott> it is very important the quotes are not present
08:18:43 <kmc> clearly you should use Void because then i can use edwardk's 'void' package to inject insidious memory corruption bugs into your program
08:19:39 <shachaf> Speaking of insidiosity, when's that contest happening?
08:19:49 <shachaf> elliott would like to enter.
08:20:33 <shachaf> kmc: Do you know that foo.chr doesn't work in Ruby for foo > 255?
08:20:47 <shachaf> As far as I can tell you do something like [foo].pack('U'), where 'U' means UTF-8.
08:21:03 <shachaf> [256].pack('U')[0].ord == 256
08:21:06 <kmc> that's a very perl-ish solution
08:21:08 <elliott> kmc: what are the memory corruption bugs
08:21:38 <shachaf> elliott: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/void/0.5.6/doc/html/src/Data-Void.html
08:21:38 <kmc> elliott: the GHC optimized implementation of 'vacuous' is unsound if you use type families
08:21:59 <kmc> it assumes that type constructors are parametric
08:22:05 <elliott> kmc: why don't you tell edwardk
08:22:09 <kmc> he doesn't care
08:22:23 <elliott> i'll bug him about it more next time i see him
08:22:38 <elliott> probably the clarifi compiler has only parametric type constructors or something
08:22:42 <elliott> kmc: so how do you do the bug
08:22:52 <elliott> btw what the fuck is clarifi doing having their own fp language and compiler
08:22:55 <shachaf> elliott: You do the bug by doing /msg edwardk VOID IS BROKEN
08:23:20 <kmc> well, it assumes you can unsafely coerce a «f Void» to a «f a» because the container must be empty, so to speak
08:23:45 <shachaf> So you just declare a type family that's different on Void.
08:23:54 <elliott> coerce Foo Void to Foo Int
08:24:00 <elliott> kmc: i have this suspicion that type families are completely broken
08:24:23 <elliott> kmc: actually Foo does not quite work
08:24:28 <elliott> kmc: can a type family be Functor
08:24:37 <kmc> i did write an exploit for this
08:24:48 <kmc> http://hpaste.org/52660
08:24:49 <elliott> well how does it work since you can't do Functor
08:25:12 <kmc> data family, not type family
08:25:19 <elliott> kmc: it should do fmap `seq` unsafeCoerce
08:25:23 <shachaf> Why isn't there a newtype family. :-(
08:25:34 <elliott> kmc: really your code is broken because it disobeys functor laws
08:25:39 <kmc> elliott: *rolls eyes*
08:25:47 <elliott> kmc: well, memory corruption is a valid response to that, according to the report, iirc
08:25:51 <elliott> it's just not an ideal one
08:25:58 <elliott> kmc: the report explicitly allows compilers to assume e.g. the monad laws
08:26:06 <kmc> i request chapter and verse
08:26:20 <kmc> shachaf: you can do newtype instances of data families
08:26:23 <shachaf> Why isn't there a one-page version of the report?
08:26:35 <shachaf> I think I tried it once and it didn't work.
08:27:12 <lambdabot> SimonMarlow says: This is the largest program (in terms of memory requirements) I've ever seen anyone run using GHC. In fact there was no machine in our building capable of running it, I had to
08:27:13 <lambdabot> fire up the largest Amazon EC2 instance available (68GB) to debug it - this bug cost me $26.
08:28:10 <Deewiant_> (source: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2010-June/079332.html )
08:29:43 <shachaf> elliott: Remember that one time you called Simon Marlow dumb?
08:30:12 <elliott> dwarf fortress, everybody: http://ompldr.org/vZWRyNw
08:30:21 <itidus21> is it stupid to run a program that no computer in the building can run?
08:30:48 <shachaf> BUT APPARENTLY ELLIOTT THINKS SO
08:31:09 <kmc> elliott: what
08:31:20 -!- Patashu has joined.
08:31:22 <elliott> kmc: this is the interface for customising your surname in adventurer mode
08:35:05 <itidus21> mum walks into my room "heres a fork for ya. puts it on my plate." "uh thanks" "i used it to cut the sausage rolls [which she was eating separately]"
08:35:35 <shachaf> Maybe itidus21 is a surrealist humor bot.
08:36:02 -!- Gregor has set topic: Food is just pals you eat. Here's a fork for ya. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/aSVX.
08:37:08 -!- ion has set topic: Food is just pals you eat. Here's a spork for ya. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/aSVX.
08:37:15 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/0t8hu.jpg
08:37:32 <ion> shachaf: :-D
08:38:17 <shachaf> ion: http://www.reddit.com/user/JimKB/submitted/?sort=top
08:38:21 <Gregor> "It's pretty freaking arbitrary."
08:39:03 <itidus21> shachaf: very nice illustrations in that pic
08:39:55 <itidus21> i guess the fact that theres a website signature shows its a professional
08:41:24 * Gregor shoots elliott in the leg.
08:41:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
08:44:29 <itidus21> my dad was into archery stuff. in his mind he was basically Link.. but in reality he was a depressed office clerk with a dysfunctional family! :-D
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08:47:16 <ion> elliott used to be a programmer but he took an arrow in the knee.
08:48:26 <fizzie> It's a well-known fact you can't program without good knees.
08:49:05 <shachaf> fizzie: Seriously. Kick me.
08:49:27 <shachaf> ion: Did elliott really use to be a programmer?
08:49:29 <fizzie> Why is it always like this? Can't you people, I don't know, join #esoteric-kick and then kick yourself?
08:52:18 <Gregor> Getting ahead in the real world of programming DOES involve an awful lot of time on your knees.
08:54:02 <itidus21> shachaf: believe it or not even i used to actually edit, compile and execute software using programming languages once upon a time.
08:54:43 <kmc> i used to be a programmer
08:54:49 <kmc> i still am, but i used to, too
08:55:09 <fizzie> Programmers are really on another level compared to amateur grammers.
08:55:10 <elliott> a mitch hedberg quote, you could get like 500 reddit karma for that!
08:55:39 <kmc> i'll take my reddit karma in the form of cash money
08:55:45 <kmc> what's the exchange rate
08:56:53 <itidus21> kmc: it's a negative exchange rate at the moment
08:57:01 <kmc> shiiiiiii-
08:57:08 <elliott> kmc: 10,000 buys you [derisive item]
08:57:30 <itidus21> is it actually possible for negative exchange rates to happen?
08:57:38 <elliott> good thing i only have 1834
08:59:07 <Gregor> If that was possible, you could manufacture money X_X
08:59:26 <Gregor> "Please give me 200 AUD and 800 CAD. kthxbai"
08:59:47 <elliott> Gregor: after a while either you start hating yourself too much to farm reddit karma for money
09:00:02 <elliott> Gregor: or you start doing it non-ironically, and you're *one of them*, you become god-emperor of the universe
09:00:09 <elliott> and the apocalypse begins in earnest
09:00:12 <shachaf> kmc: Have you had any exciting 5-HT_2A adventures since the last one?
09:00:24 <shachaf> I guess the answer is tautologically "no".
09:00:29 <elliott> kmc: what about some 89234-QjicJ)@(#90t adventures
09:01:02 <Sgeo> When did nVidia stop being the better manufacturer for graphics cards for Linux?
09:01:03 <shachaf> elliott: If you're going to make up names to kmc, you have to know how to do it.
09:01:09 <shachaf> Step 1: base64 /dev/urandom
09:01:16 <Sgeo> I remember hearing that ATI sucks on Linux and nVidia doesn't. What happened?
09:01:22 <kmc> nice tautology bro
09:01:28 <shachaf> Sgeo: It goes back and forth every few years.
09:01:45 <calamari> we talking closed source drivers?
09:01:53 <kmc> i took some 4-AcO-DMT a few months ago but it was a low dose and nothing much happened
09:01:56 <kmc> haven't taken any since then
09:02:14 <kmc> elliott: you could at least pick actual obscure phenethylamines or tryptamines
09:02:16 <kmc> http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal.shtml
09:02:21 <kmc> http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal.shtml
09:02:38 <shachaf> kmc: Wow, is that drug even illegal?
09:02:55 <elliott> kmc: have you done any "5,6-MDO-MIPT" (as they call it in the streets) lately
09:03:06 <elliott> fizzie: btw i think you're technically guidelines-obligated to stop us talking about this
09:03:14 <kmc> shachaf: 4-AcO-DMT? "O-Acetylpsilocin is unscheduled in the United States. It may be considered an analog of psilocin, which is a Schedule I drug under the Controlled Substances Act of the USA"
09:03:30 <shachaf> Does that mean it's not a thoughtcrime to consider it?
09:03:31 <kmc> elliott: no
09:03:44 <kmc> most of these have only been taken by like 5 people
09:03:44 <elliott> QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 35 mgs, orally) "Some paresthesia noted. Nothing else."
09:03:44 <elliott> (with 50 mgs, orally) "Maybe a trace of activity after an hour. Certainly nothing at three hours."
09:03:44 <elliott> (with 60 mgs, orally) "There is something going on there, but I can't tell what it is. Very vague."
09:03:44 <elliott> (with 75 mgs, orally) "Just a teasing smell of light-headedness in twenty minutes, and maybe a bit more light-headedness in an hour. I can suspect the chronology, but the character of the effects remains nebulous. It is certainly less dramatic than the 5-methoxy-compound."
09:03:55 <calamari> shachaf: might mean that it hasn't been tested in court?
09:04:13 <kmc> elliott: i did take regular old MiPT though
09:04:33 <kmc> it's kind of weird that the nomenclature in this field is just what shulgin made up for his lab notebooks
09:04:39 <elliott> kmc: shulgin is kind of mad right
09:04:47 <fizzie> "As a legal entity, PDPC cannot condone or support behavior which is clearly unlawful. While PDPC does not have the resources to closely monitor the thousands of channels on the network, its staff and volunteers are required by policy to pass on credible information, provided by you as a network participant, about unlawful activities." I'm not staff, and I don't think I'm much of a volunteer ...
09:05:02 <kmc> elliott: i don't know really
09:05:04 <fizzie> We are a publicly logged channel, though.
09:05:19 <elliott> kmc: not necessarily in a bad way!
09:05:25 <kmc> he's really old now
09:05:33 <shachaf> elliott: i heard that u kind of mad
09:05:34 <itidus21> i made a mad post on some forum.. i got ip banned
09:06:01 <Sgeo> I've been banned from places
09:06:21 <itidus21> it was an appropriate ban. the things i said were very improper
09:06:34 <elliott> how about some of that GANESHA
09:07:00 <kmc> haven't tried
09:07:07 <elliott> [[QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 25 mg) Vague awareness, with the feeling of an impending something. Light food sat uncomfortably. By the late afternoon there was absolutely nothing. Threshold at best. ]]
09:07:21 <calamari> I got b& for posting ponies on /b/, does that count?
09:07:26 <kmc> look somebody has to take all the shitty drugs all right
09:07:28 <elliott> what i'm learning is that most of drugs suck
09:07:30 <kmc> that somebody is not me
09:07:42 <kmc> if you make random chemical alterations to existing drugs you mainly get worse versions of those drugs
09:08:01 <itidus21> they should just teach people that math is like drugs
09:08:07 <shachaf> Is it a semilattice at least?
09:08:15 <kmc> itidus21: we had a saying, that the world is divided into math, drugs, and cardboard
09:08:57 <elliott> kmc: these synthesis instructions are amazing
09:09:09 <kmc> yeah only half of PiHKAL is online
09:09:17 <elliott> what! what's the other half
09:09:24 <itidus21> basically, mainstream math is too arithmetic oriented
09:09:26 <kmc> the part that's online is the synthesis instructions and experience reports
09:09:36 <itidus21> by mainstream i mean the crap people like me know
09:09:48 <kmc> the first part of the book is a lightly fictionalized account of shulgin's life and his wife's
09:10:04 <kmc> they talk about sex a lot
09:10:12 <kmc> (counterexample)
09:10:21 <elliott> i noticed a lot of description of erotic thoughts in the experience reports!
09:10:31 <kmc> so yeah if you want to read about how she wanted to get into his pants because he's the master of the cosmos
09:10:34 <kmc> then read this book
09:10:53 <kmc> also him trolling the government
09:10:55 <elliott> [[QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 50 mg) At about the two hour point, there was a precipitous drop of blood pressure (from 120/72 to 84/68) although the pulse stayed steady at 60. This trend had been apparent in earlier trials, and was being watched carefully. No further tests are planned. ]]
09:11:06 <kmc> sounds like a party
09:11:09 <fizzie> elliott: Re fake names, here's 50 names generated with a character 4-gram for you: http://sprunge.us/gdUH (Disclaimer: a couple of them might be accidentally real.)
09:11:23 <fizzie> 3eO-4-7S-DIPGAMMD5-MA-3-TOM sounds impressive, for example.
09:11:41 <kmc> haha fizzie++
09:11:42 <shachaf> fizzie: Now generate complexity classes!
09:11:56 <kmc> yes 2C-T-17 is real
09:12:04 <elliott> kmc: if 3eO-4-7S-DIPGAMMD5-MA-3-TOM was real what would it be
09:12:23 <kmc> a hell of a drug
09:12:31 <fizzie> elliott: Maybe you should take some "3". Or some "T".
09:12:41 <kmc> 4-MeO-DMT is real too
09:12:46 <elliott> fizzie: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal53.shtml t is rael sory
09:13:15 <shachaf> kmc: is there a drug that will make me feel super sleep deprived
09:13:25 <kmc> i don't know of one
09:13:56 <shachaf> <monqy> help my left arm died for no reason
09:14:21 <fizzie> `words --tihkal --pihkal 10
09:14:24 <HackEgo> Unknown option: tihkal \ Unknown option: pihkal
09:14:31 <shachaf> kmc: what's the best LEGAL psychedelic
09:14:36 <fizzie> `run words --finnish 10 # same thing?
09:14:40 <HackEgo> sintuntenevinä intävämpämme kirjoavallensa yksistointämälle pommeerapistä laanjohtamia iinnostamila syvälttamme pysteli hakentävänä
09:14:54 <kmc> shachaf: i quite like 2C-E
09:15:09 <elliott> liptamine irco-fenasophanicue-2etryl
09:15:19 <kmc> also 4-AcO-DMT is supposed to be the same as psilocybin mushrooms, which are pretty well understood and liked
09:15:51 <shachaf> These are all analogues or something. :-(
09:16:02 <shachaf> I want a drug for the digital age.
09:16:02 <fizzie> I herd you can get high if you smoke banana peels.
09:16:06 <kmc> if you want something that's not an analogue, that would be harder
09:16:25 <elliott> kmc: what common household objects have you inhaled
09:16:38 <elliott> i have my "boring" response lined up if the response is "none"
09:16:44 <kmc> salvinorin A is not scheduled in the USA (federally)
09:16:52 <shachaf> As far as safety goes I imagine you're better off finding something reasonably well-understood and illegal than something not understood and legal.
09:16:53 <kmc> but i would hesitate to call it "best" anything
09:16:58 <kmc> shachaf: indeed
09:17:11 <kmc> shachaf: LSD and mushrooms would top that list
09:17:20 <elliott> methyl (2S,4aR,6aR,7R,9S,10aS,10bR)-9-(acetyloxy)-2-(furan-3-yl)-6a,10b-dimethyl-4,10-dioxododecahydro-2H-benzo[f]isochromene-7-carboxylate
09:17:32 <kmc> basically, government bans the safe, fun drugs so that people have to take the more dangerous counterparts
09:17:40 <kmc> (they also ban the really dangerous drugs, and then obfuscate the difference)
09:17:41 <shachaf> I didn't think they made that illegal yet. :-(
09:18:01 <kmc> elliott: yes, it's the active ingredient in salvia
09:18:07 <kmc> it's utterly unlike anything else
09:18:12 <kmc> chemically, pharmacologically, or experientially
09:18:19 <kmc> salvia is fucking terrifying though
09:18:27 <kmc> it's nothing like the beloved 5HT agonists
09:18:45 <kmc> well it's a little like 5-MeO-DMT perhaps
09:19:00 <elliott> all i know about it is you sink through sofas or something and animal collective like it
09:19:02 <kmc> salvia is crazytimes
09:19:06 <elliott> maybe i'm mixing them up :(
09:19:12 <elliott> i don't want to sink through my sofa
09:19:21 <elliott> i like solid things being solid usually
09:19:26 <Lumpio-> People who can't have fun without messing up their consciousness with chemicals fail
09:19:26 <kmc> or like the sofa splits open at the back and becomes a kaleidoscope
09:19:33 <kmc> Lumpio-: nice strawman bro
09:19:56 <Lumpio-> I think calling strawman is a strawman in itself these days
09:20:03 <kmc> i think you don't know what a strawman is
09:20:20 <elliott> chemicals mess up thinking because they're artificial and that's why you should have no chemicals in your brain
09:20:27 <Lumpio-> Of course I do. Doesn't mean I always use it correctly
09:20:27 <ion> lumpio: Are there some people here who you know to be unable to have fun without substances?
09:20:48 <ion> lumpio: I assume there are because otherwise that comment would be rather unnecessary.
09:21:15 <shachaf> ion: I'm unable to have fun wihtout substances!
09:21:20 <kmc> i'm with shachaf here
09:21:38 <elliott> tbh it sounds like all your aims are hecked
09:21:41 <kmc> <shachaf> ion: I'm unable to have fun wihtout substances!
09:21:46 <fizzie> shachaf: I think it's like that "I'm with stupid" shirt. Oh, it wasn't.
09:21:48 <kmc> http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/013111/serotonin-and-dopamine.gif
09:21:57 <kmc> they're so cute :3
09:22:15 <shachaf> kmc: is it ok if i hate on people who use the word technically :'(
09:22:16 <kmc> can i buy a plush serotonin molecule yet?
09:22:24 <kmc> it could be friends with my sharkbanana
09:22:35 <elliott> shachaf: technically it's not
09:22:44 <kmc> maybe i should make one!
09:22:49 <shachaf> I can't stand the feel of velvet.
09:22:59 <shachaf> I think I can't stand the feel of plush either, assuming I know what plush is.
09:23:04 <ion> I can’t stand the feel of shachaf.
09:23:55 <kmc> the hairs on plush are longer aiui
09:24:27 <shachaf> I don't know why people make those things.
09:24:31 <kmc> you don't like sharkbanana :(
09:24:48 <shachaf> I'm sure sharkbanana is beautiful on the inside.
09:25:54 <shachaf> Well, I thought it was when I read it many years ago.
09:25:59 <shachaf> I think my age was single-digital.
09:26:27 <shachaf> Anyway, I ordered it again in order to read it again.
09:27:49 <shachaf> kmc: Where do endorphins go in the serotonin-dopamine thing?
09:29:10 <HackEgo> 2010-06-04.txt:22:41:13: <Sgeo> Erm, that doesn't technically describe Alaska, does it
09:29:24 <HackEgo> 2008-07-27.txt:21:52:05: <tusho> well, technically it doesn't
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09:29:44 <HackEgo> 2010-03-05.txt:21:30:26: <AnMaster> cpressey, and glass harmonica is *technically* impressive
09:30:01 <HackEgo> 2009-10-15.txt:12:43:21: <ehird> 9.9, technically.
09:31:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24600
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11:10:10 <itidus21> here's to pretending today will be a good day for all
11:11:40 <itidus21> and also to the fact that programming simply isn't a performance art (yet)
11:12:05 <itidus21> if playing crawl and df can be performace art, then it's only a matter of time
11:12:12 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_coding
11:13:47 <elliott> kmc: livecoding is awesome, have you seen yaxu's stuff?
11:13:53 <elliott> he's done haskell music livecoding
11:14:14 <ion> URL please.
11:17:05 <itidus21> if i'm wrong, then i guess everything else is right in the world
11:18:37 <itidus21> it's an instance of conservation of ninjutsu
11:21:55 <ion> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Video_presentations#Livecoding_Haskell
11:22:11 <itidus21> if i was better at math i like to think i could write a fancy inverse kinematic animation engine
11:22:31 <fizzie> Man, this latest step of this law thing is so much the best thing, I think it needs to go in our logs too, despite probably already making the rounds; I always hear these things last.
11:22:36 <fizzie> "On Friday, June 15, 2012, attorney Charles Carreon passed from mundane short-term internet notoriety into a sort of legal cartoon-supervillainy.
11:22:39 <fizzie> He transcended typical internet infamy when he filed a federal lawsuit last Friday in the United Sates District Court for the Northern District of California in Oakland. He belonged to the ages the moment he filed that lawsuit not only against Matthew Inman, proprietor of The Oatmeal, but also against IndieGoGo Inc., the company that hosted Inman's ridiculously effective fundraiser for the ...
11:22:45 <fizzie> ... National Wildlife Federation and the American Cancer Society.
11:22:48 <fizzie> But that level of censorious litigiousness was not enough for Charles Carreon. He sought something more. And so, on that same Friday, Charles Carreon also sued the National Wildlife Federation and the American Cancer Society, the beneficiaries of Matthew Inman's fundraiser.
11:22:52 <fizzie> Yes. Charles Carreon, butthurt that someone had leveraged his douchebaggery into almost two hundred thousand dollars of donations to two worthy charities, sued the charities."
11:22:55 <fizzie> http://www.popehat.com/2012/06/17/the-oatmeal-v-funnyjunk-part-iv-charles-carreon-sues-everybody/
11:23:35 <elliott> See e.g. http://blip.tv/piksel/piksel10-slub-alex-mclean-dave-griffiths-4540027 for some video.
11:23:42 <elliott> Quite catchy 37 minutes in!
11:24:17 <elliott> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovebytes/6882856456/ too many strings!
11:24:43 <itidus21> fizzie: http://lh5.ggpht.com/_jLmX_8LH3uo/TcF-geBS48I/AAAAAAAAIc0/8yGzBQnRnYk/American%20Patriot%20Flag%20Wallpaper%5B4%5D.jpg
11:25:49 <fizzie> I think there was a livecode thing at altparty once.
11:26:01 <fizzie> Yes, the 2010 iteration. "Dave Griffiths was raised on an early education in weaving, bell ringing and 8bit computers. He performs improvised livecoded techno music using text, visual programming, and hand made game engines."
11:26:13 <itidus21> Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light, what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
11:26:23 <fizzie> I don't know the guy, but I vaguelly recall it was kinda funky.
11:26:38 <fizzie> http://www.altparty.org/2010/info/music.html#davegriffiths I remember those rectangular things.
11:26:48 <fizzie> Don't know what thing it is.
11:27:30 <elliott> fizzie: He's part of the same group thing.
11:27:38 <elliott> fizzie: The squares are nesting or such.
11:27:46 <elliott> yaxu has a thing that has a bunch of nodes connected in a graph.
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11:34:35 <itidus21> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Esoteric_programming_language&diff=prev&oldid=416289296
11:36:40 <fizzie> Ooh, what a shameless act of self-plugging.
11:53:15 <ion> elliott: Thankes
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12:07:38 <ion> OHP Mega Demo 9000 - TRSI & DES!RE - @Party 2012 http://youtu.be/LCIsIfEOEI8
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13:07:02 <fizzie> What foolishness is this. If I type in "esolang.org", there's a grey text at the right saying "Press [Tab] to search Esolang (en)", and then it magically goes to Special:Search if I do that. Witchcraft!
13:10:19 <fizzie> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/opensearch_desc.php" title="Esolang (en)" /> LOOKS LIKE BLACK MAGIC TO ME
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13:18:33 <elliott> fizzie: remember when mooz played slaves to armok
13:18:39 <elliott> fizzie: monqy's IVAN experience is reminding me of it
13:18:50 <fizzie> http://www.canlii.com/en/ab/abca/doc/2012/2012abca134/2012abca134.html "At about 2:00 a.m. on December 6, 2009, an Edmonton police officer noticed a Jeep leaving the parking lot of a drinking establishment with its lights out. He decided to follow it. As he did, he observed the vehicle drive through three stop signs without attempting to brake. -- The Jeep was brought to a stop. Immediately, ...
13:18:56 <fizzie> ... the respondent emerged from the driver’s seat of the Jeep and approached the police car declaring: “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m so fucked.” As will be seen from our disposition of this appeal, that was a prophetic statement." And they say courts have no sense of humour.
13:19:17 <fizzie> And yes, I do remember such a thing.
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13:29:27 <fizzie> Also, a computer: http://hs13.snstatic.fi/webkuva/taysi/960/1305575177673?ts=473 (It's a render of that new IBM Sequoia that just made the top of that TOP500 supercomputer list.)
13:29:35 <fizzie> I wonder if they actually have as polished floors.
13:30:30 <fizzie> Yeah, an actual photo: http://www.top500.org/files/Sequoia_small.jpg
13:31:14 <fizzie> (Are those "caution: slippery floor" cones in the back?)
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14:21:14 <elliott> @ask monqy i died in the tutorial
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15:05:26 <elliott> hi Phantom_Hoover oijd oih oqiwjwoti joewt jrjr
15:06:57 <ion> lambdabot should have said “Error: that is not a question.”
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15:57:39 <Taneb> I can connect to the internet in my bedroom
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16:03:55 <Vorpal> I was just looking through the CD with drivers that came with the mobo. I was trying to find some documentation wrt wake-on-lan. I didn't find that, but I found a lot of unusual stuff. Such as IA64 drivers for the ethernet. And Linux drivers for something called Intel AMT.
16:04:04 <Vorpal> also a lot of EFI-related stuff
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16:17:16 <Vorpal> Taneb, connection issues?
16:17:24 <Vorpal> from here that looked fine
16:17:48 <Vorpal> iirc lambdabot does some sort of fuzzy matching of commands?
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16:23:38 <Vorpal> I love this BIOS changelog. For each of the 10 versions it lists it just says : "Improve system stability. Improve memory compatibility. Support new CPUs."
16:27:08 <Vorpal> I'm curious as to how each of the 10 releases can improve system stability
16:27:57 <elliott> it probably means "fixed bug"
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16:29:54 <Vorpal> I was looking through to see if a specific issue I had was fixed. As it is only a minor issue (PS2 keyboard doesn't work under windows from cold boot, works fine when rebooting from linux or rebooting from windows after the keyboard was made to work by first rebooting from linux) I'm not going to bother though.
16:30:17 <elliott> Vorpal: You should play IVAN.
16:30:22 <elliott> If you like limbs falling off for no reason.
16:30:38 <Vorpal> also you just described happy wheels :P
16:31:03 <elliott> Vorpal: It's... a roguelike. Of sorts.
16:31:24 <elliott> It's horribly unfair and each of your individual limbs get their own damage (DF-style) and can fall off.
16:31:41 <elliott> And you can pray to one of the gods to get, e.g. a metal replacement for it!
16:32:13 <elliott> Also the name is Latin for "a violent road to death".
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16:32:48 <elliott> Vorpal: Representative message:
16:33:31 <elliott> Jun 18 08:59:22 <elliott> 14:21 You stab the kobold! You advance to skill level 2 with polearms! You
16:33:32 <elliott> Jun 18 08:59:22 <elliott> advance to skill level 5 with your balsa spear covered with different
16:33:32 <elliott> Jun 18 08:59:22 <elliott> types of blood! The kobold dies yelling like a tortured hyena.
16:33:41 <elliott> Jun 18 09:02:42 <monqy> 15:03 The zombie hits you! You manage to block the attack with your bone! You advance to skill level 3 with your bone! The zombie hits you! You manage to partially block the attack with your bone! You advance to skill level 1 with blunt weapons! You advance to skill level 4 with your bone!
16:34:04 <Vorpal> seems like the progression is rapid?
16:34:07 <elliott> 14:52 You slash the zombie in the head! Its head is severed off!
16:34:08 <elliott> 14:52 The zombie takes a severed head of a zombie and attaches it to its torso.
16:34:31 <elliott> Jun 18 09:48:03 <elliott> 15:13 You feel very ill. Your right leg drops to the ground.
16:34:31 <elliott> Jun 18 09:48:09 <monqy> oops i guess bad things happened
16:34:31 <elliott> Jun 18 09:48:33 <monqy> 15:13 You begin drinking the bottle full of healing liquid.
16:34:31 <elliott> Jun 18 09:48:33 <monqy> 15:13 You grow a new right leg.
16:34:31 <elliott> Jun 18 09:48:33 <monqy> 15:13 You feel better.
16:34:50 <elliott> Wait I forgot the best one.
16:34:52 <elliott> 12:48 The levitating ostrich cackles cheerfully. It likes its life.
16:34:57 <ion> I’m stuck in Thief. :-(
16:34:59 <Vorpal> elliott, hey can't you reattach limbs like the zombies?
16:35:20 <elliott> Vorpal: Well, you can pick up (and also eat) your severed limbs. Before eating it says "hey, you could reattach that, are you sure?".
16:35:26 <elliott> I think sometimes praying to one of the gods will reattach it for you.
16:35:52 <elliott> There's also carnivorous mutant bunnies.
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17:35:44 <MDude> http://images.4chan.org/co/src/1340009252555.jpg
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18:27:02 <ion> THE MARMALADE Identity: Behind the scenes (Super Slow Motion Effects That Look CGI) http://youtu.be/cKC6j7pW6T0
18:33:35 <shachaf> kmc: So the other day someone in #haskell was asking about some of the weird behavior of regex-compat. The response was "just write your own regexp library in pure Haskell".
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18:36:14 <fizzie> Let's say June 11th, 1908.
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18:36:28 <fizzie> I think I got it wrong.
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19:34:02 <shachaf> better nate than dames !!!!!!!
19:35:25 <shachaf> oerjan: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1704611&postcount=96
19:36:39 * oerjan smells a not very pretty dog story
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19:53:33 <nortti> http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/month_day_year_america_failure.jpg
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20:30:35 <kmc> shachaf: it is trivial
20:35:19 <Sgeo> There's a typo in the "Longest Joke in the World" thing
20:35:22 <Sgeo> "If would be the perfect image, he imagines"
20:35:29 <Sgeo> (My gf found it)
20:35:59 * Phantom_Hoover chooses to interpret this as Sgeo using his girlfriend as a spellcheck.
20:37:20 <itidus21> it took me more than 3 seconds to spot that typo when staring at the sentence
20:37:34 * oerjan chooses to interpret this as Sgeo using his spellcheck as a girlfriend.
20:38:36 <Phantom_Hoover> (Not to say your spellcheck is fat, Sgeo, it could just lose a stone or two.)
20:39:17 <oerjan> google sez "1 stone = 6.35029318 kilograms"
20:40:29 <Phantom_Hoover> ALTHOUGH according to the 1772 Encyclopaedia Britannica a stone of beef was in Scotland 16lb.
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20:45:10 <oerjan> those who live in beef houses should not lose stones
20:48:07 <Vorpal> oerjan, why not? The house is made of beef not stone. Loosing a stone would be a non-issue. Unlike if you lived in a stone house. ;P
20:48:45 <Vorpal> eating your house? Disgusting. Also the beef would go bad very quickly anyway.
20:48:52 <Vorpal> unless it was frozen I guess
20:49:25 <Vorpal> I would strongly advise against using beef as a building material.
20:52:35 <Vorpal> (now really good night)
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20:53:41 <oerjan> except with more letters
20:56:27 <Taneb> zzo38, what's the point of Prelude.Generalize.(++) when there's Control.Applicative.(<|>)?
21:05:09 <Taneb> Can I ask you Haskell questions?
21:05:43 <zzo38> Taneb: Just because of the stupid way the classes are designed, you might need to use it in something that has only MonadPlus as constraint; also, (++) is specialized. Ideally it shouldn't be needed for that purpose, but there it is
21:06:57 <Taneb> I don't really have any maths questions atm
21:07:05 <Taneb> I only had one Haskell question
21:07:12 <Taneb> Ooh, here's another one!
21:07:20 <oerjan> well it was one only zzo38 could answer...
21:07:27 <Taneb> Is there such thing as a ComonadPlus
21:07:49 <oerjan> ...also sounds like zzo38's thing :P
21:08:19 <Taneb> When I'm older, I want to be like zzo38, except British, Australian, and easier to understand.
21:08:22 <Taneb> Also richer and cooler
21:08:32 <oerjan> british _and_ australian?
21:08:45 <Taneb> (already achieved)
21:09:03 <zzo38> Taneb: I don't know if there is any such things as ComonadPlus, although Comonad and Alternative are mutually exclusive.
21:09:16 <oerjan> Taneb: you should have 3 mansions, one in each hexham :P
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21:09:24 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm told I could have a dual Irish nationality despite the fact that none of my ancestors have ever lived in the ROI.
21:09:35 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, were you born in NI?
21:09:48 <Taneb> Well, that's me out of ideas
21:09:54 <zzo38> It is possible for something to be both Comonad and Monad, but not to be both Comonad and Alternative.
21:10:02 <Phantom_Hoover> And in any case that'd qualify me for a British passport, not an Irish one.
21:10:16 <Taneb> oerjan, aww, come on. One Hexham's tiny and another's in New South Wales
21:10:33 <oerjan> what's wrong with new south wales, dmm is there
21:10:52 <Taneb> I'm a Victoria person
21:11:10 <zzo38> It is not difficult.
21:11:16 <Phantom_Hoover> (It's because my grandfather was born before the ROI was founded so he qualifies for Irish citizenship, and for some reason if any grandparent qualifies for Irish citizenship so do you.)
21:12:22 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i'd assume he needs to be from Ireland, too?
21:12:41 <oerjan> (presumably NI in this case)
21:13:02 <Taneb> You know, only one of my grandparents was born in any country I hold a nationality for
21:14:52 <oerjan> were any of them dutch or is that further back
21:14:58 <Taneb> Two of them were dutch
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21:15:41 <Taneb> Great swathes of that bit of the Netherlands emigrated to Australia in the 50's
21:16:33 <Taneb> Well, the van Doorns, the Wolswinkels, and the van Ecks did
21:17:15 <Taneb> That's the wrong word, isn't it?
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21:18:17 <Taneb> s/Great swaths of/Quite a lot of people from/
21:19:38 <Taneb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_netherlands#Flooding_and_flood_control
21:19:45 <Taneb> Because of that, I think
21:20:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Anything specific or just because it's, well, the Netherlands?
21:20:31 <oerjan> "darn, flood again, let's move to somewhere drier!"
21:20:45 <Taneb> Victoria is the best state
21:20:56 <Taneb> Much better than Queensland and California
21:20:57 <oerjan> "i hear australia is the driest continent, let's go there!"
21:21:47 <Taneb> Well, these people were from a pretty rural area. Most of them depended on farming
21:22:00 <Taneb> When the fields flooded, crops were wiped out and livestock drowned
21:26:20 <Taneb> So they gave up and went to the land were there was fire instead of water
21:27:09 <Taneb> itidus21, remember Black Saturday?
21:27:24 <Taneb> The last time I went to Australia, I got there on the Sunday
21:28:00 <itidus21> well didn't affect me directly.. but i do remember something about fires or floods
21:28:09 <Taneb> Floods were in Queensland
21:28:14 <Taneb> Fire was in Victoria
21:28:22 <Taneb> Couple of relative's farms got burnt
21:29:40 <Taneb> Well, goodnight, everyone
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21:29:47 <zzo38> There is Victoria in Canada too
21:34:44 <zzo38> Does this seem a reasonable way to you for parsing a note letter? send_note(ch,channels[ch].transpose+(channels[ch].octave+(c<scale_base))*12+note_letter[c-'a'],0,&s);
21:35:21 <zzo38> (Sharps, flats, length override, are handled by the send_note subroutine)
21:37:59 <zzo38> (The variable scale_base has a default value of 'c' although it can be changed; note_letter is a constant array holding { -3,-1, 0, 2, 4, 5, 7 })
21:41:23 <oerjan> well it looks reasonable, but i wouldn't promise it correct without testing
21:41:40 <zzo38> I may later on, add the feature to adjust the note_letter array too, though, such as if you want to use a scale other than 12-TET and that stuff
21:43:23 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes of course when I write enough of the program I will test it. The note numbers here are for the .IT format where C0 is represented by 0. And as far as I know, no other program has this "scale_base" feature; but maybe you know of some
21:44:05 <oerjan> i don't know any music programs
21:45:52 <zzo38> But how would you design it if you did design a music program?
21:55:51 <zzo38> What I should try to think of is how to internally store the channel row data (using effect frames).
21:56:08 <zzo38> Since it has to do so for each channel individually
22:04:17 <zzo38> Is there any things in the .IT file that may need to be adjusted for compatibility with certain players, and if so, should the Cwt field have a default value for each one?
22:06:32 <nooga> i've tried to implement lisp out of boredom
22:06:48 <nooga> and (eval '(+ 1 2)) returns (+ 1 2)
22:09:25 <oerjan> nooga: my guess is that when you evaluate (eval '(+ 1 2)), you don't evaluate the argument before passing it to eval?
22:12:52 <nortti> so what features does it have?
22:14:54 <nortti> I have created one. it could execute subset of scheme
22:15:18 <nortti> and yes. I named it lis.py just because
22:15:50 <nortti> eval, +, -, *, /, define, lambda, if, car, cdr, cons
22:17:01 <nortti> actually no quote word. just '
22:17:12 <nooga> ' is a reader macro
22:18:08 <nooga> also: and, or, cond, case, %
22:18:28 <nooga> and that'd be it.. there - complete programming system
22:19:23 <nortti> I didn't have those but I could implement them if I am going to rewrite lis.py
22:19:47 <nortti> (I don't want to look at that code again. it is in functional python)
22:22:08 <nooga> i need a pretty printer and (trace)
22:23:31 <nortti> also some kind of display or read would be nice if you are going to use it for something
22:24:02 <nortti> is your lisp variant closer to scheme or cl or something else?
22:27:24 <nooga> i think it's accidentaly closer to cl
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22:35:19 <nortti> (define (map function list) (if (null? list) () (cons (function (car list)) (map function (cdr list)))))
22:35:22 <nortti> (define (filter function list) (if (null? list) () (if (function (car list)) (cons (car list) (filter function (cdr list))) (filter function (cdr list)))))
22:35:25 <nortti> (define (reduce function list) (if (null? list) () (if (null? (cdr list)) list (reduce function (cons (function (car list) (car (cdr list))) (cdr (cdr list)))))))
22:35:45 <ion> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5pq4hZcQ31r3ddn8o1_500.jpg
22:37:35 <shachaf> ion: How would you feel if I' say' used '\'' to approximate ,?
22:40:50 <nooga> http://pastie.org/4111194
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22:52:03 <oerjan> @quote blood everywhere
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22:52:04 <lambdabot> No quotes for this person. Are you on drugs?
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22:52:13 <lambdabot> malig says: I have to admit I'm still stunned when "tying the knot" actually works. it's like I just performed the kind of magic that normally requires a lot more goat's blood
22:52:25 <lambdabot> edwardkmett says: Most monad tutorials are written by people who barely understand monads, if at all, but unfortunately nothing can stop someone from writing a monad tutorial. We've tried, there was
22:53:10 <ion> shachaf: I wholeheartedly encourage you to always do that from now on.
22:53:21 <shachaf> ion: What' the comma thing?
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22:53:46 <oerjan> it,s a very lofty thing' isn,t it
22:54:12 <ion> shachaf: Yes̛°
22:54:52 <shachaf> oerjan: Hey now' we're trying to represent *more and more* characters using ASCII '\''!
22:55:17 <nooga> nortti: i've tried your reduce
22:56:08 <oerjan> i think the lone list should be (car list)
22:56:14 <nooga> and I get (reduce + '(1 2 3)) => (6)
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23:10:49 <nortti_> (define (reduce function list) (if (null? list) () (if (null? (cdr list)) (car list) (reduce function (cons (function (car list) (car (cdr list))) (cdr (cdr list)))))))
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23:15:46 <nooga> i've got readline with completion in my repl
23:16:55 <nortti_> is the repl written in lisp or in ruby?
23:19:00 <nortti_> I think repl in my lis.py was written in lisp but I am not completely sure
23:20:48 <nooga> is it this one: http://norvig.com/lis.py ?
23:21:33 <nortti_> no. I have not my lis.py anywhere. it just has same name
23:24:36 <oerjan> in which nortti_ is revealed as being Peter Norvig
23:25:21 <nortti_> no. mt firsr name is Juhani and my second nane starts with H
23:33:20 <nooga> who's peter norvig anyway
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