←2013-01-08 2013-01-09 2013-01-10→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:00:13 <GreyKnight> http://satwcomic.com/moby-is-a-dick who is the sparkly individual at the end there?
00:00:22 <FreeFull> Do you want to know how dot files came around?
00:00:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:00:44 <Bike> sure
00:01:02 -!- sebbu has joined.
00:01:17 <FreeFull> The person who wrote ls got lazy and filtered out . and .. entries by checking if the first character of a filename was a .
00:01:19 <fizzie> GreyKnight: Iceland is sparkly.
00:01:21 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
00:01:51 <Bike> FreeFull: believable. too believable. make it snopesworthy.
00:02:11 <GreyKnight> But I thought Iceland was all green and it was Greenland that was all ice :-I
00:02:42 <Bike> green things can sparkle!
00:03:08 <GreyKnight> Iceland: like an emerald, in a way
00:03:31 <GreyKnight> ...wait are they stealing our "Emerald Isle" motif >:-O
00:03:36 * GreyKnight declares war
00:05:57 <oerjan> be careful, they have volcanoes
00:06:57 <GreyKnight> and Björk
00:06:57 <FreeFull> Bike: https://plus.google.com/101960720994009339267/posts/R58WgWwN9jp
00:07:04 <FreeFull> Here, from Rob Pike
00:07:28 <GreyKnight> http://satwcomic.com/size-matters Denmark and Norway are *bros*, but Sweden just has to go and be awkward
00:08:28 <Bike> FreeFull: still boring.
00:10:09 <FreeFull> I'm sorry if reality is boring to you :)
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00:10:22 <GreyKnight> FreeFull: "[…] during the Version 2 rewrite, when the file system became hierarchical (it had a very different structure early on)." <-- this was interesting by itself
00:10:47 <FreeFull> GreyKnight: MSDOS didn't have a hierarchical FS at the beginning either
00:11:10 <GreyKnight> back in the mists of time
00:12:06 <oerjan> i believe technically danish and norwegian both got Å from swedish after the countries had all separated, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85#Origin
00:15:10 <FreeFull> Hierarchical FS support was added in MS-DOS 2
00:15:51 <GreyKnight> "NTFS allows files to contain more than one stream of bytes, each of which have an independent range of file positions starting at zero. Microsoft did this as a generalization of the original MacOS concept of a file having two forks, a data fork and a resource fork. I'd claim that it was a mistake on the Mac, and a bigger mistake for Microsoft to build it into NTFS."
00:16:12 <Bike> does anyone use that?
00:16:22 <Bike> on windows, i mean, i've heard of mac forks.
00:17:32 <oerjan> everyone knows windows cannot fork properly
00:18:25 <FreeFull> NTFS has a lot of features that end up essencially unused
00:18:34 <FreeFull> You can use the multiple stream thing to hide files
00:18:35 <Bike> doesn't everything?
00:18:37 <GreyKnight> "dd is horrible on purpose. It's a joke about OS/360 JCL. But today it's an internationally standardized joke. I guess that says it all." <-- this page is a source of lols
00:18:50 <Fiora> weird NTFS features things reminds me of NTFS Link
00:19:04 <Bike> FreeFull: sounds great for malware.
00:19:19 <Fiora> it was this little tool that let you have symbolic link support in windows, it was really easy and simple and intgrated into the explorer
00:19:27 <FreeFull> I think you can really only access the files from command line if they're hidden that way
00:19:31 <Fiora> @g NTFS junction point
00:19:31 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki . ? @ v
00:19:41 <Fiora> @google NTFS junction point
00:19:42 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_junction_point
00:19:43 <lambdabot> Title: NTFS junction point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
00:19:57 <FreeFull> NTFS allows hard links and symbolic links, and you can mount a device inside a directory
00:20:21 <Fiora> symbolic links are only for folders though, I think
00:20:33 <Fiora> the main thing I used it for is I could move a big folder to another drive, then add a symbolic link so that programs still thought it was there
00:20:39 <Fiora> so I could like, add a new hard drive, then symbolic-link program files
00:26:42 <FreeFull> Under linux, hard links are to files only
00:27:15 <ais523> FreeFull: not true; the kernel API can handle directory hardlinks just fine, as can the usermode programs like ln
00:27:19 <ais523> however, most /filesystems/ can't
00:27:23 <ais523> which is why you can't create them
00:28:26 <FreeFull> ln will refuse to create them, to prevent loops
00:28:38 <ais523> FreeFull: unless you're root and tell it not to care about that
00:28:51 <GreyKnight> ln --trust-me
00:28:58 <FreeFull> True
00:29:28 <FreeFull> ext4 won't permit it, wonder what filesystems will
00:30:33 <FreeFull> ntfs might
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00:35:22 <Fiora> Sgeo_: update
00:36:53 * oerjan imagines mount taking a regexp argument, and mounting the device at _all_ matching paths simultaneously
00:38:06 <GreyKnight> Why stop there? Generate all possible strings that could match the regexp, create the necessary paths, and mount it everywhere
00:39:35 <oerjan> um the point is the regexp is supposed to be allowed to give infinitely many strings. for those useful loops and stuff.
00:40:06 <GreyKnight> oh you sort of meant the same thing as me I think
00:40:11 <oerjan> or put differently... yes.
00:40:41 <GreyKnight> communication, taking place, etc
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00:41:01 <oerjan> hackego, not in place, etc
00:41:29 <GreyKnight> -_-
00:41:45 * oerjan hopes Gregor is fine
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00:43:26 <GreyKnight> monqy: help Gregor
00:43:26 <GreyKnight> he is trapped and only you can rescue him!
00:43:34 <monqy> ok
00:44:11 <Bike> it's those darn forcefields, i knew they'd be nothing but trouble
00:46:10 <GreyKnight> I never put Gregor in a forcefield!
00:46:39 <oerjan> they said forcefields were trivial to escape, but they underestimated the gravity of the situation
00:47:06 * oerjan would do puns on magnetism instead if he could think of any
00:47:18 <quintopia> i put gregor in a field of gravitational force and a field of electromagnetic force!
00:47:45 * GreyKnight puts c00kiemon5ter in a forcefield, and three cookies outside ⌇⌇ :-3 ⌇⌇ o o o
00:47:52 <oerjan> well the second is illegal, we'll have to charge you for it
00:48:38 <GreyKnight> oerjan: some people think I use forcefields to attract the ladies, but it is just my animal magnetism
00:48:42 <quintopia> oerjan: the gradient of your joke potential field is radially aimed toward "bad"
00:51:21 <oerjan> quintopia: you just want a magnetic monopoly!
00:51:37 <GreyKnight> These puns are making my hair curl
00:52:10 <oerjan> we can really div 'em out
00:52:43 * oerjan isn't sure that was a pun
00:52:46 <Fiora> quintopia: puns are an integral part of this channel :<
00:53:19 <oerjan> they get a bit derivative after a while
00:54:16 <GreyKnight> I'd complain, but I don't want to make waves…
00:56:46 <oerjan> waves are ok, just don't go cosin trouble
00:57:15 <Fiora> this has kind of gone off on a tangent
00:59:00 <GreyKnight> Well, I can see the parallels
00:59:12 <oerjan> i think you are just projecting
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01:06:29 <Sgeo_> Fiora, what the fuck did I just watch?
01:07:32 <Bike> canon
01:07:38 <Fiora> Sgeo_: I really don't know
01:08:07 * oerjan doesn
01:08:10 <oerjan> 't know either
01:08:38 <kmc> so is every rails app in the world getting hacked right now or what happened with that
01:09:56 <Fiora> it's apparently "trickster mode is canon now"?
01:10:40 <kmc> what?
01:10:53 <Bike> kmc: maybe you could make a startup dedicated to cracking startups.
01:11:05 <kmc> i'm so confused
01:12:02 <kmc> maybe i could make a startup dedicated to smoking crack
01:12:17 <Bike> so, a startup
01:12:35 <kmc> It's like TACOCOPTER for CRACK COCAINE!
01:12:42 <kmc> yes
01:12:43 <kmc> actually
01:12:48 <GreyKnight> kmc: Well maybe all the news sites are on Rails and so they can't tell us about it :-I
01:12:49 <kmc> given how cheap small toy drones are getting
01:12:53 <Fiora> kmc: oh sorry I meant in response to Sgeo_
01:12:56 <kmc> maybe we should use them to deliver drugs
01:13:01 <kmc> Fiora: oh ok i thought so maybe
01:13:11 <kmc> but it kind of made sense with what i said
01:13:14 <kmc> but not enough sense >_<
01:13:49 <kmc> unfortunately i think small toy drones don't have much cargo lifting capacity
01:14:01 <Fiora> kmc: "An attacker can execute any ruby code he wants including system("unix command"). This effects any rails version for the last 6 years."
01:14:05 <Fiora> I think that's it
01:16:15 <oerjan> @nixon on wikipedia
01:16:15 <lambdabot> The second point is that coming out--coming back and saying that black Americans aren't as good as black Africans--most of them , basically, are just out of the trees. Now, let's face it, they are.
01:16:39 <kmc> http://www.lawfareblog.com/2012/09/operation-stux2bu-layered-offense-and-defense-and-drone-cyberattacks/ in which a defense policy expert, a 14 year old kid, and an 11 year old kid win a drones duel using cyberwarfare
01:18:04 <GreyKnight> Fiora: O_@
01:18:12 <kmc> yeah fun times
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03:01:23 <kmc> first zombie 6.001 lecture was today
03:01:50 <kmc> i was trying to go through some simple fibonacci-type examples in recitation and my students were asking about how you implement variadic functions and macros and stuff
03:01:53 <kmc> i guess that's a good sign?
03:03:11 <oerjan> it means no one ate their brains yet
03:07:12 <Bike> 6.001 is undead now?
03:09:09 <kmc> it has been undead for a while
03:09:18 <kmc> students teach it over the january Independent Activities Period
03:09:25 <kmc> the original course is compressed into 1 month
03:09:49 <Bike> i thought it was just, you know, dead
03:11:16 <kmc> http://www.insinuator.net/2013/01/rails-yaml/ has more about that rails vulnerability
03:16:07 * Sgeo_ is not in fact competent enough to just be able to click the edit button on GitHub, change the code, and send a pull request
03:16:19 <Sgeo_> I renamed an identifier but forgot to rename it everywhere
03:16:29 <Sgeo_> (Or, well, just didn't see that location)
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03:42:12 <FreeFull> If I do a pattern match like [a] in haskell, what is the value of a?
03:42:52 <kmc> it will match any list that contains exactly one element
03:42:56 <kmc> a will be bound to that element
03:43:20 <oerjan> > let [a] = [1,2,3] in a
03:43:22 <lambdabot> *Exception: <interactive>:3:5-17: Irrefutable pattern failed for pattern [a]
03:43:29 <oerjan> > let [a] = [5] in a
03:43:30 <lambdabot> 5
03:43:52 <FreeFull> So it only matches if there is a single element
03:44:02 <kmc> yes
03:44:27 <oerjan> > let a:b = [1,2,3] in (a,b)
03:44:28 <kmc> it is sugar for (a : [])
03:44:28 <lambdabot> (1,[2,3])
03:44:42 <kmc> the two primitive patterns for lists are [] and (x : xs)
03:44:49 <kmc> matching empty and non-empty lists respectively
03:45:05 <kmc> a pattern like [a,2,b] is sugar for (a : (2 : (b : [])))
03:45:53 <kmc> lists have special syntax but otherwise they act like a normal algebraic data type, data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a)
04:00:40 <kmc> and that's where babies come from
04:01:13 <oerjan> > repeat "babies"
04:01:15 <lambdabot> ["babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","b...
04:08:36 <Sgeo_> The Racketeers are... scared of hidden mutation?
04:08:47 <Sgeo_> <asumu> Depending on what you mean by Scheme-y, yes. Guile has GOOPs, for example. The generics library was designed not to allow such backpatching.
04:08:47 <Sgeo_> <asumu> Because it's basically some hidden mutation.
04:12:26 <monqy> hi
04:13:25 <monqy> whats this about
04:14:02 <Sgeo_> Taking a value from library A and a generic interface from library B, and writing a library C that makes the value implement the interface without the consent of the value
04:14:43 <Sgeo_> <Sgeo_> Hidden mutation isn't necessarily evil
04:14:44 <Sgeo_> <Sgeo_> Any Haskell implementation is going to do hidden mutation to turn lazy thunks into values when that thunk is forced
04:14:44 <Sgeo_> <asumu> That's unobservable mutation.
04:14:44 <Sgeo_> <asumu> It's an optimization over call-by-name basically.
04:14:44 <Sgeo_> <asumu> You can definitely observe a mutation of a method table of some object.
04:14:46 <Sgeo_> Hrm
04:15:06 <Bike> what are you hrming about
04:15:41 <elliott> presumably why he's pasting #clojure(?) #racket(?) logs into #esoteric
04:15:48 <Sgeo_> #racket
04:16:44 <Sgeo_> He's right that there's a difference, I'm not sure though if hidden but observable mutation is to be avoided
04:16:46 <monqy> by "making it implement an interface without its consent" do you mean mutating it to patch in an implementation
04:17:05 <Sgeo_> Pretty much
04:17:05 <monqy> idk how this system works
04:17:10 <monqy> but
04:17:17 <monqy> sounds like you're doing something icky and bad
04:17:31 <Sgeo_> It's how some OO systems for Scheme work
04:17:51 <Bike> wait, since when do you need to mutate an object to define methods on its class
04:18:55 <Sgeo_> Need to mutate the class. Or, well, it would end up responding differently to the question "do you respond to this?" at point t1 and point t2
04:19:33 <kmc> what does "hidden but observable" mean
04:19:54 <Bike> "you can see it without looking at implementation details but it's not obvious if you're stupid"?
04:20:07 <Bike> Sgeo_: well, if it's message-passing based, i guess.
04:20:50 <Sgeo_> Presumably "hidden" as in "It's not immediately obvious that you're mutating something", I guess?
04:21:21 <monqy> why do you want to do this thing anyway
04:24:09 <Sgeo_> Because it's quite easy to imagine two libraries developed in isolation that would fit well together
04:25:24 <Bike> what about.............. generics
04:25:24 <monqy> and the only way to make them fit well together is to muck up their internals
04:25:44 <hagb4rd> what about defining ..interfaces?
04:25:53 <Sgeo_> Bike, the generics system new in Racket is like this
04:25:55 <Bike> not enough ellipses try again
04:27:38 <Sgeo_> And the Interface system in the OO is also like this, the class needs to consent
04:28:04 <Bike> oh, christ,i thought you were taking two minutes to type up an explanation of The Generics System New In Racket
04:28:23 <Sgeo_> oops, sorry
04:28:24 <Bike> anyway i meant like c++ sort of generics
04:28:34 * Sgeo_ doesn't know what those are like
04:28:44 <monqy> Sgeo_: didn't that other guy said the generics system was designed not to allow the stupid stuff you're doing
04:28:50 <Bike> well there aren't class objects so you certainly can't muck with them!
04:29:22 <monqy> Sgeo_: so what do you mean by it "is like this"????
04:29:36 <Bike> is like mutating weirdness
04:29:41 <Sgeo_> Is like the whole "thing implementing a generic needs to declare it"
04:29:49 <Bike> though i get the feeling we're not getting a balanced description? question marks here
04:30:04 <monqy> i get the feeling we're not getting a description at all
04:30:09 <Bike> yeah that also
04:31:17 <Sgeo_> Sorry, I'm not entirely certain of every mechanism of the generics stuff and the OO and interface stuff
04:33:36 <monqy> you seem to know enough about it to make wild statements about how it works / what use is telling us about it if you don't understand it well enough to clue us in on what the hell you're talking about
04:33:40 <monqy> "pick one"
04:34:03 * oerjan is reminded of the Expression Problem
04:34:42 <hagb4rd> basically it's about defining a contract between different classes or even complete systems. all parts agree on that contract to exchange data.. that's it
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04:34:54 <hagb4rd> isn't it
04:35:30 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expression_problem
04:37:43 * Sgeo_ was vaguely under the impression that that didn't apply to dynamically typed languages
04:37:57 <Bike> says "static type safety" right there yo
04:38:16 <hagb4rd> so if everything works out fine a programmer just needs to care to satisfy the contract defined in the interface.. no need to care about how alien libs or classes work internally..
04:38:29 <Bike> ..
04:39:36 <Sgeo_> I googled for PLT Scheme expression problem
04:39:43 <Sgeo_> Something on the mailing list mentioned mixins
04:40:14 <hagb4rd> you should google for PLT scheme expression solution
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04:47:35 <oerjan> Bike: i know but doing it without mutation seems to make it a problem for single-dispatch dynamic OO as well...
04:47:57 <Sgeo_> I always get implementation paralysis when I look at Scheme. Chicken Scheme or Racket, how can I decide?
04:48:06 <Sgeo_> (Yes, I know Racket doesn't really fit any Scheme standard)
04:48:41 <monqy> do you feel the same way when you look at haskell
04:48:52 <monqy> ghc or hugs?????
04:48:52 <Bike> oerjan: i'm not sure how the problem even makes sense with mutation, i mean, it explicitly says "new cases" &c
04:48:58 <Bike> hugs 4lyfe
04:48:59 <monqy> or uhc or jhc have you thought about that
04:49:05 <oerjan> monqy: not any more since hugs died :(
04:49:13 <Bike> hugs 4deth
04:49:19 <monqy> oerjan: thats part of the joke :]
04:49:59 <Sgeo_> The Haskell community is pretty centered around GHC. The Scheme community is very much not centered around any one implementation
04:53:05 <monqy> ok ok how about C
04:53:17 <monqy> or or or or or or or or or or or javascript
04:53:34 <Bike> javascript is different, instead of choosing an implementation you just fail to write for all them.
04:53:40 <monqy> that's the joke :(((((
04:53:49 <monqy> ok i'll try a new joke
04:53:59 <Bike> Are those chins, or...
04:54:53 <kmc> cross platform javascript is not that bad
04:55:47 <kmc> well it is very easy if you really just mean "javascript"
04:55:47 <monqy> server side javascript solutions => no need to write for multiple implementations???
04:55:58 <kmc> but if you also mean browser APIs, DOM, etc. then it is still not too bad
04:57:28 <hagb4rd> stop it kmc.. the guys try to agree on the least common denominator ..c and javascript is bad :P
04:58:03 <Bike> who said anything was bad? i'm just hear to fuck up jokes.
04:58:16 <kmc> you're just hear to fuck up spelling
04:58:23 <monqy> ooh i thought of a good one Sgeo_: do you get the implementation paralysis when you try to write your Assembly's
05:00:05 <oerjan> http://www.reddit.com/r/speling hth
05:02:21 <oerjan> more on topic, brainfuck and befunge might have implementation paralysis. so does malbolge, although for a completely different reason.
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05:02:47 <Sgeo_> Well, there's the fact that Scheme libraries tend to be highly unportable
05:02:57 <Sgeo_> Since there aren't many for pure R5RS
05:03:16 <Sgeo_> There's a bunch of stuff for Chicken Scheme, a bunch of separate stuff for Racket, etc
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05:12:27 <kmc> that sucks
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05:56:56 <kmc> eodermdrome has implementation paralysis
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05:59:18 <guestbot> !bfjoust stupidrush (+++++>------>++++++>)*3++>([(+)*11[-][+...]]->)*19[[-]]
05:59:21 <EgoBot> ​Score for guestbot_stupidrush: 34.6
06:00:14 <ais523> huh, not bad
06:01:16 <quintopia> hi guestbot
06:01:35 <quintopia> ais523: it used your advice of making six decoys
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06:03:06 <ais523> quintopia: that's more than 6 decoys
06:03:10 <kmc> isn't it eight?
06:03:27 <quintopia> oh
06:03:32 <quintopia> thats a *3
06:03:34 <quintopia> whoops
06:04:04 <quintopia> !bfjoust stupidrush (+++++>------>++++++>)*3++>([(+)*11[-][+...]][++.+]->)*19[[-]]
06:04:07 <EgoBot> ​Score for quintopia_stupidrush: 31.8
06:04:11 <quintopia> haha
06:04:20 <tswett> I think I want to forsake set theories. I'm going to do all my mathematics in second-order Peano arithmetic with Henkin semantics.
06:04:26 <quintopia> !bfjoust stupidrush <
06:04:28 <EgoBot> ​Score for quintopia_stupidrush: 0.0
06:04:31 <tswett> The only things that exist are the natural numbers, and certain sets of natural numbers.
06:06:10 <tswett> You know what, let's call them "classes" instead of "sets". "Set" will mean a finite collection of natural numbers. If a collection is definable but infinite, it's a class.
06:06:12 <kmc> or 9 rather
06:08:02 <tswett> In fact, "set" is really just a synonym of "natural number". A natural number n is an element of a natural number S if and only if S divided by 2^n, rounded down, is odd.
06:08:20 <Bike> aristotlean logic is so old-hat, you can say classes are whatever without meaning classes exist!
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06:14:16 <tswett> Rational numbers are number-level. Real numbers are class-level. As for sets of real numbers, TANST.
06:14:57 <tswett> So how do you do calculus? Easy: toss out all the non-continuous functions. A continuous function of real numbers can be represented as a set of natural numbers.
06:16:24 <tswett> Just represent it as a function Q -> R, which you can, in turn, represent as the set of all pairs (x, y) of rational numbers such that y < f(x).
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07:38:58 <fizzie> The weird. This (desktop) computer has some kind of a built-in speaker inside.
07:39:42 <elliott> its friend.....
07:40:55 <fizzie> I'm not sure you understand. There is SOUND coming OUT OF IT.
07:41:43 <elliott> its friend............
07:42:25 <monqy> does the sound sound like beeps
07:42:31 <monqy> i disable pc speaker because gosh i hate it
07:42:40 <fizzie> It does not sound like beeps.
07:42:43 <fizzie> It sounds like sound.
07:42:48 <fizzie> I'm as confused as I was back when I got my SparcStation, ran mpg123 on it, and SOUND came OUT OF IT. (There's a speaker in that thing too.)
07:42:49 <monqy> does it sound like whirring
07:42:56 <monqy> disable fan, disable spinny discs
07:43:53 <fizzie> Well, I mean, it did stop when I closed the U-tube link. But the sound shouldn't have come out in the first place, because it's not got anything plugged in its sound holes.
07:44:00 <fizzie> (That sounds a bit dirty.)
07:44:47 <monqy> pretty sure it's fashion-illegal for a desk box to have onboard sound
07:44:49 <monqy> in bad taste
07:46:52 <fizzie> It's a Fujitsu machine.
07:46:57 <fizzie> Fujitsu something something something.
07:47:13 <fizzie> Fujitsu CELSIUS W520 POWER.
07:49:37 <Gregor> fizzie: I recently accidentally discovered that nvidia video cards come with sound cards that work over HDMI.
07:49:37 <lambdabot> Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
07:49:57 <Gregor> So if you plug it into an audio-capable monitor or TV, voila, sound.
07:50:08 <Gregor> Glad I didn't choose to watch porn as my first test of the video card.
07:50:24 <Gregor> Why is HackEgo crashing so much :(
07:51:13 -!- HackEgo has joined.
07:51:59 <fizzie> I think pretty much anything with a HDMI connector these days has a "sound card" (FSVO) in it. The onboard graphics of my home desktop do too.
07:52:13 <hagb4rd> `ls
07:52:39 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ quotese \ robocop \ run \ share \
07:52:50 <hagb4rd> k.. so nothing got deleted
07:52:54 <hagb4rd> good
07:53:31 <fizzie> Some of that stuff perhaps ought to have gotten deleted, though.
07:55:02 <hagb4rd> `rm robocop
07:55:05 <HackEgo> No output.
08:13:07 <hagb4rd> hm..high resolution repdroduction documentation
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08:22:23 <GreyKnight> Hi HackEgo!!!!!!
08:24:10 <GreyKnight> `botsnack
08:24:11 <HackEgo> ​:-D
08:25:34 <fizzie> `snackbot
08:25:35 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: snackbot: not found
08:25:37 * GreyKnight wonders if Sgeo_'s talk of "the Racketeers" means he is migrating languages again
08:26:59 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:30:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
08:30:55 <GreyKnight> `quote
08:30:56 <HackEgo> 383) <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: nope, I removed . from the current directory
08:31:13 -!- ais523 has quit.
08:31:22 <GreyKnight> We were supposed to add some quotes? Better check the logs I guess
08:31:42 <GreyKnight> Alternatively I could eat breakfast
08:31:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
08:32:28 <GreyKnight> Why does everyone keep quitting when I talk, it's quite rude!
08:33:21 <GreyKnight> Gregor: `gregorsnack
08:33:57 <elliott> `run rm -rf *
08:34:24 <HackEgo> No output.
08:34:31 <GreyKnight> onoz
08:34:32 <elliott> `ls
08:34:39 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \
08:34:48 <elliott> looks like it MYSTERIOUSLY didn't work
08:36:05 <monqy> :o
08:36:53 * GreyKnight tidies up a bit
08:37:03 <GreyKnight> `ls
08:37:04 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
08:37:31 <monqy> `ls factor
08:37:33 <HackEgo> factor.image
08:37:40 <monqy> is this sgeo's doing
08:37:56 <GreyKnight> "probably"
08:39:51 <GreyKnight> `run echo $PATH
08:39:52 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
08:42:34 <GreyKnight> `welcome HackEgo
08:42:35 <HackEgo> HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
08:42:43 <GreyKnight> yay :>
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08:45:25 <GreyKnight> `? GreyKnight
08:45:27 <HackEgo> GreyKnight? ¯\(°_o)/¯
08:45:35 <fizzie> The Factor installation ran into file size limits or something, didn't it?
08:45:36 <GreyKnight> sadface
08:45:47 <GreyKnight> fizzie: I think so
08:46:06 <GreyKnight> factor.image is pretty large at any rate
08:46:28 <GreyKnight> (Basically a dump of the entire system state)
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08:52:09 <GreyKnight> `? ¯\(°_o)/¯
08:52:11 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯
08:52:25 <GreyKnight> Almost perfect
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08:59:07 <GreyKnight> `? Haskell
08:59:08 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
09:00:02 <GreyKnight> trufax
09:01:44 <hagb4rd> `run echo "AntiPattern: Intellectual Violence occurs when someone who understands a theory, technology, or buzzword uses this knowledge to intimidate others in a meeting situation. This may happen inadvertently due to the normal reticence of technical people to expose their ignorance." > wisdom/IntellecutalViolence
09:01:47 <HackEgo> No output.
09:02:23 <hagb4rd> `run mv wisdom/IntellecutalViolence wisdom/IntellectualViolence
09:02:27 <HackEgo> No output.
09:02:30 <GreyKnight> Example:
09:02:41 <GreyKnight> `? monad
09:02:42 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
09:07:20 <Phantom_Hoover> `rm wisdom/IntellectualViolence
09:07:23 <HackEgo> No output.
09:07:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I draw the line at letting hagb4rd add wisdom entries.
09:09:45 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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09:13:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
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09:15:16 <fizzie> `ls bin/No
09:15:17 <HackEgo> bin/No
09:15:18 <fizzie> Good, still there.
09:16:16 <hagb4rd> `cat bin/No
09:16:17 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh
09:16:25 <fizzie> `No output.
09:16:27 <HackEgo> No output.
09:16:47 <fizzie> (I wondered about it a while ago until someone kindly explained it to me.)
09:17:08 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
09:29:18 <hagb4rd> `run echo "DisagreeByDeleting is when a person disagrees with something and deletes it rather than posting an alternative idea alongside the item. See Also: IntellectualViolence" > wisdom/DisagreeByDeleting
09:29:21 <HackEgo> No output.
09:30:12 <fizzie> `run rm wisdom/DisagreeByDeleting # I don't agree
09:30:15 <HackEgo> No output.
09:30:37 <hagb4rd> i would have removed it anyway
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10:00:03 <Sgeo_> http://xkcd.com/1158/
10:13:59 <Phantom_Hoover> the bowling ball analogy is so terrible
10:16:19 <Phantom_Hoover> it's basically the perfect way to teach someone some of the words used in general relativity whilst completely misleading them on what it's actually about
10:30:45 <Sgeo_> http://xkcd.com/895/
10:31:28 <Sgeo_> http://eddiecurrent.blogspot.com/2012/03/gravity-is-not-rubber-sheet.html
10:31:54 <Phantom_Hoover> I think it might be better just to say "yeah this is complicated and hard to understand" until you can properly explain what it means for space to be curved?
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10:58:16 <Jafet> @quote analogy
10:58:16 <lambdabot> lilac says: * lilac looks forward to Cale explaining category theory by analogy to Call of Duty
10:58:24 <Jafet> @quote analogies
10:58:24 <lambdabot> mmorrow says: a functor is like an analogy between two analogies
11:37:33 <FireFly> `run ls -l canary
11:37:35 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Jan 9 08:34 canary
12:38:02 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
12:42:30 <Phantom_Hoover> `run rm canary
12:42:32 <HackEgo> No output.
12:42:41 <Phantom_Hoover> `run ls -l canary
12:42:44 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Jan 9 12:42 canary
12:43:55 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
12:44:43 <fizzie> `run cat < canary
12:44:44 <HackEgo> No output.
12:44:54 <fizzie> (The "<" is to evoke the action of eating.)
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12:50:59 <Phantom_Hoover> `run echo tweet > canary
12:51:03 <HackEgo> No output.
12:51:06 <Phantom_Hoover> `run cat canary
12:51:07 <HackEgo> tweet
12:52:09 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
12:53:09 <hagb4rd> you don't need to `run unless you have more than 1 argument
12:53:32 <hagb4rd> `cat canary
12:53:33 <HackEgo> tweet
12:54:09 <fizzie> But cats often run.
12:54:56 <fizzie> `words --cat 10
12:55:00 <HackEgo> amameneïssol arrejareu intèriquina eixonant execres esbiadesen cats encipalegues acaderésseu pacalfarbono
12:55:00 <hagb4rd> hm..right
12:55:50 <fizzie> Those must be some foreign cats that speak like that.
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13:22:54 <hagb4rd> `url bin/words
13:22:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/words
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13:23:45 <GreyKnight> fizzie: one of the words was "cats" interestingly
13:25:08 <Sgeo_> Oh dear God I think I got #RubyOnRails talking philosophy
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13:31:11 <GreyKnight> Sgeo_: what have you done D:
13:33:10 <hagb4rd> speak the truth
13:33:18 <hagb4rd> (but ride a fast horse)
13:33:35 <Sgeo_> I'm trying to argue that there is such a thing as absolute reality
13:33:42 <Sgeo_> And they're talking about the theory of relativity
13:33:57 <GreyKnight> so *everybody's* off-topic, got it :-)
13:35:54 <GreyKnight> tell them to fix their bugs instead ;-)
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14:44:55 <FireFly> `words --help
14:44:57 <HackEgo> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset
14:45:09 -!- sivoais has joined.
14:45:34 <FireFly> `words -l
14:45:36 <HackEgo> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M
14:46:28 <fizzie> (It's the --catalan.)
14:46:34 <fizzie> (The cat language.)
14:48:47 <FireFly> I assumed that was the case
14:49:00 <FireFly> I wonder why that doesn't need to be `run though
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15:10:05 <GreyKnight> `which words
15:10:07 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/words
15:10:11 <GreyKnight> `file /hackenv/bin/words
15:10:13 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/words: a /usr/bin/perl script text executable
15:10:25 <GreyKnight> I guess perl is doing some magic to make it work
15:10:33 <elliott> what magic
15:10:37 <GreyKnight> `run cat $(which words) | paste
15:10:40 <elliott> or
15:10:41 <GreyKnight> shrug
15:10:41 <elliott> what's "it"
15:10:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17694
15:10:49 <elliott> i don't see any abnormal behaviour
15:10:51 <GreyKnight> `words --cat 10
15:10:53 <HackEgo> devellació descoprot compar persondules rucarem estanca pallí rusuc arroqui mullotà
15:11:11 <GreyKnight> it can identify --cat and 10 as separate arguments without a run
15:11:24 <elliott> oh, right, that
15:11:27 <elliott> that's part of the program itself IIRC
15:11:40 <GreyKnight> that's what I said :v
15:11:54 <GreyKnight> s/perl/the perl code/
15:12:46 <GreyKnight> @ARGV = split /\s+/, $ARGV[0] if @ARGV == 1; # this looks like it
15:12:46 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
15:12:51 <GreyKnight> shush dear
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15:16:09 <fizzie> Yes, it has a manual splitting in case of a single argument.
15:16:25 <fizzie> Oh, I suppose that was already well-enough established.
15:16:31 <fizzie> Well uh your mom.
15:16:48 <fizzie> `run words --finnish 10 # it does need run when you want to make pithy comments like this one
15:16:51 <HackEgo> kässäännekstia sykkiämme haljaamuvuutta erästämilta ruhtaasiatyypilvo huikeämpänäsi kirichlettamme jylitsemiin syventämmästänne piamme
15:16:51 <GreyKnight> but what does it do if you call it without run ?????
15:17:09 <fizzie> `run words '--finnish 10' # oh no IT'S ALL WRONG
15:17:11 <HackEgo> luopeutuvana puhdettamiasi vällensa näköisempi lanillanne aihtyessamme muodeerinostetykypsyklisi arkimaan kaansa istamme
15:17:23 <fizzie> But I wanted the "finnish 10" wordset.
15:17:35 <GreyKnight> hm you managed to say the one line that would make mine less witty
15:17:52 * GreyKnight assumes the second list isn't Finnish
15:17:54 <GreyKnight> oh
15:17:55 <GreyKnight> right
15:18:04 <GreyKnight> my parser is broken
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15:48:08 <hagb4rd> <GreyKnight>but what does it do if you call it without run ????? <-- afaik it passes the whole string as a single argument (as if passed in quotation marks).. so actually the # is not evaluated as a comment
15:48:41 <hagb4rd> correct me if i am wrong please
15:54:19 <hagb4rd> `source
15:54:21 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found
15:55:17 <hagb4rd> `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib
15:55:18 <HackEgo> fetch \ limits \ revert \ sandbox
15:55:30 <hagb4rd> `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds
15:55:31 <HackEgo> lib
15:55:49 <GreyKnight> hagb4rd: I had typed that before fizzie's preceding line (I was making a joke)
15:56:03 <hagb4rd> k
16:03:04 <GreyKnight> :k fix
16:03:05 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type variable `fix'
16:03:13 <GreyKnight> hmph
16:03:27 <GreyKnight> :k (:t fix)
16:03:28 <lambdabot> parse error on input `:'
16:03:31 <GreyKnight> \o/
16:04:28 * GreyKnight traps lambdabot in a forcefield ⌇⌇ λ ⌇⌇
16:05:18 <Sgeo_> :t fix
16:05:19 <lambdabot> (a -> a) -> a
16:05:25 <Sgeo_> :k (a -> a) -> a
16:05:26 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type variable `a'
16:05:26 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type variable `a'
16:05:26 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type variable `a'
16:05:38 <GreyKnight> lambdabot!!!
16:05:48 <Sgeo_> I imagine it would just be *
16:05:58 * GreyKnight sighs theatrically
16:05:58 <Sgeo_> :k (Int -> Int) -> Int
16:06:00 <lambdabot> *
16:06:15 <Sgeo_> Kinds are more for type constructors
16:06:17 <Sgeo_> :k Monad
16:06:18 <lambdabot> (* -> *) -> Constraint
16:06:26 <Sgeo_> Constraint?
16:06:35 <GreyKnight> Well that escalated quickly
16:08:04 <GreyKnight> I didn't even know :k could hold things other than * ( ) -> and er whatever the other ones are... # and % I think?
16:09:12 <kmc> # and ? and ??
16:09:14 <kmc> also (#)
16:09:17 <kmc> but they got renamed recently
16:09:49 <kmc> Sgeo_: constraints are things that can appear left of =>
16:09:50 <shachaf> Did you hear about our great new type?
16:10:03 <shachaf> newtype Bizarre p a b s t = Bizarre { unBizarre :: p t s -> p b a }
16:10:19 <kmc> newtype BlueRibbon p a b s t
16:10:29 <kmc> shachaf: so what's it for
16:10:37 <Sgeo_> Are there any uses for kinds like (* -> *) -> (* -> *) -> * -> *
16:10:46 <kmc> probably
16:10:48 <kmc> what kind of question is that
16:10:49 <Sgeo_> Are type constructors of that kind writable?
16:10:53 <kmc> yes
16:11:05 * Sgeo_ 's mind twists a little bit
16:11:06 <kmc> data Foo a b x = Foo (a x) (b x)
16:11:30 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
16:11:48 <kmc> Sgeo_: that Constraint stuff was added in recent GHC; now typeclass constraints are type-like things and can be manipulated with the other type machinery
16:12:15 <kmc> so you can have things that are polymorphic over various constraints, type families that produce constraints, etc
16:12:23 <kmc> it's basically off the chain
16:12:29 <shachaf> kmc: Making opposite lenses.
16:12:51 <shachaf> A profunctor lens is representable as either (p a b -> p s t) or as (q t s -> q b a)
16:14:29 <shachaf> This type, along with some instances, lets you turn any lens around and use it in the opposite way.
16:16:46 <kmc> you can't quite say "the kind of (a -> a) -> a is *" because you need to know that a has kind *
16:17:50 <shachaf> But (->)'s kind is * -> * -> *
16:17:53 <elliott> kmc: It has to be.
16:18:00 <elliott> Except for the unboxed stuff, I guess.
16:18:02 <shachaf> Admittedly there's some sort of subkinding thing going on here?
16:18:04 <elliott> But (->) always ends up with *.
16:18:06 <kmc> if (a -> a) -> a has a kind at all, its kind is *
16:18:27 * elliott is comfortable saying the type of ():xs is [()]
16:18:28 <shachaf> OK, sure.
16:18:35 <kmc> shrug
16:18:39 <GreyKnight> "<kmc> it's basically off the chain" <-- you spelt "rocker" incorrectly there hth
16:19:03 <GreyKnight> shachaf: you're making a concave lens? :-3
16:19:15 <shachaf> elliott: How's that name?
16:19:20 <shachaf> Concave and convex lenses?
16:19:25 <elliott> shachaf: How about no?
16:19:47 <GreyKnight> sadface
16:20:53 <shachaf> elliott: How do you make it work with the f, anyway?
16:21:05 <shachaf> elliott: I bet answering my question about representability would help!
16:25:28 <kmc> "...exfiltrating data from the phone by toggling a GPIO pin on the embedded CPU at radio frequencies."
16:25:31 <kmc> :O
16:25:56 <ion> Sounds interesting. URL?
16:26:05 <kmc> http://ossmann.blogspot.com/2013/01/funtenna.html
16:26:10 <ion> Thankes.
16:26:21 <kmc> this was for the worm that takes over all cisco phones in an organization and uses them to spy on you
16:28:22 <GreyKnight> Batman eat your heart out
16:28:32 <GreyKnight> I like how they call it a "funtenna"
16:30:51 <GreyKnight> light-hearted
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17:10:34 <mroman> Was there actually a flaw I missing in the stuff I said yesterday?
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17:43:55 <fizzie> I don't like people who try to sell me things I don't want, when I try to get some simple thing done w.r.t. their company. :/
17:47:05 <shachaf> fizzie: Well, if you just stopped not wanting the things, that would solve everything, wouldn't it?
17:47:12 <Sgeo_> How important is pattern matching to the actor model?
17:47:41 <Sgeo_> Because in rudybot, I saw thread level mailboxes be used but didn't see a way to conform that the message was sent by who the thread was expecting it to be sent by
17:47:53 <Sgeo_> So I made a patch to have it send a new async channel instead
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18:40:17 <Sgeo_> Ok, so which of these people do I call to see if there's any way to speak to an advisor
18:40:33 <Sgeo_> "Chairperson [of CS program I guess]"
18:40:39 <Sgeo_> "Graduate Program Director for M.S. and Ph.D. Programs in Computer Science "
18:40:45 <Sgeo_> "Graduate Program Administrator for M.S. and Ph.D. Programs in Computer Science "
18:50:54 <coppro> probably the director
18:54:38 -!- david_werecat has joined.
18:56:05 <Sgeo_> Thank you, I'll try it
19:01:49 -!- Taneb has joined.
19:05:13 <coppro> elliott: ping
19:05:38 <david_werecat> !bfjoust behemoth >->++>>>(+)*38>(+)*4<<(-)*24<(+)*12<(-)*8<(+)*5<++>(+)*32>(-)*24>(+)*12>(-)*8>(+)*5<<<<(+)*16>(-)*22>(+)*20>(-)*8>(+)*0>>>>>((-[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[--------[-[-[-[-[(-)*38[+]>]+>{}]]]]]]]]]]]]+++>)%21)*21
19:05:44 <EgoBot> ​Score for david_werecat_behemoth: 52.1
19:05:52 <Taneb> david_werecat, haven't seen you in a while!
19:05:57 <Taneb> How're you doing?
19:06:09 <david_werecat> Things have been going well.
19:06:14 <david_werecat> Been busy
19:06:50 <david_werecat> So, what's new in #esoteric?
19:07:23 <Taneb> Fueue is implemented in three languages
19:07:51 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover has a Tumblr
19:08:01 <Taneb> Which he uses to complain about brainfuck derivatives
19:08:34 <david_werecat> Speaking of brainfuck derivitaves...
19:08:36 <david_werecat> !bfjoust golf ++(>)*9([+++[-]>]>)*21
19:08:44 <EgoBot> ​Score for david_werecat_golf: 30.8
19:08:50 <Fiora> it has so few posts! we should clearly get him to pad it out with some homestuck.
19:08:52 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, does BF Joust count?
19:09:04 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
19:09:07 <Phantom_Hoover> it makes me so angry
19:09:16 <Phantom_Hoover> if only i had a means of expressing my rage
19:09:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, homestuck-based brainfuck derivatives?
19:09:33 <Taneb> Fiora, I hear he posts loads of Homestuck on a sideblog, pretending to be me
19:09:52 <Bike> homefuck is probably already the name of a few dozen pornos, though
19:10:09 <Taneb> http://homefuck.tumblr.com
19:10:12 <Taneb> Who dares investigate
19:10:21 <Bike> Moved to MuelinRouge
19:10:37 <Taneb> Aw man, that's lame
19:10:43 <Taneb> http://homesuck.tumblr.com
19:10:44 <Taneb> Who dares investigate
19:10:51 <coppro> nope
19:11:35 <Bike> poodle aerobics
19:11:51 <Bike> which is weird, because the fullpage flash made me expect meatspin
19:12:00 <Taneb> That's the problem with Tumblr
19:12:11 <Taneb> All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people
19:12:35 <coppro> `addquote <Taneb> That's the problem with Tumblr <Taneb> All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people
19:12:45 <HackEgo> 902) <Taneb> That's the problem with Tumblr <Taneb> All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people
19:12:49 <Taneb> Hey, is HackEgo back?
19:13:20 <Taneb> HackEgo AND david_werecat have returned: we need itidus20's opinion on this
19:14:07 <Phantom_Hoover> on the topic of porn
19:14:14 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm fairly sure farscape counts as it now
19:14:42 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:17:08 <hagb4rd> `run echo "high resolution documentation of reproduction" > wisdom/porn
19:17:42 <Phantom_Hoover> `run rm wisdom/porn
19:17:44 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/porn': No such file or directory
19:17:50 <hagb4rd> haha
19:18:02 <Phantom_Hoover> so did someone block hagb4rd from it or what
19:18:09 <Bike> he used a leading space.
19:18:11 <Taneb> He had a space
19:18:13 <Bike> `? hagb4rd
19:18:14 <hagb4rd> yes your ego
19:18:15 <HackEgo> hagb4rd? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:18:21 <Phantom_Hoover> dammit
19:18:31 -!- monqy has joined.
19:18:34 <Taneb> `learn hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
19:18:38 <HackEgo> I knew that.
19:18:47 <Bike> `? Taneb
19:18:49 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past.
19:18:57 <Phantom_Hoover> `? Ngevd
19:19:01 <HackEgo> ​aj$_IKФbm4yj \ 4ܓ+J63`x}:N2`,TߞrU%K0sy$KO' \ vA&}L`P p.)T)Wowz2oSn^7E.Ӯ owlU-?twXKI\KɼCoU"~T.N#e(S+a.zu7>.?uȊO=`O!%_T.DzV"d}XPj"£ӭTYoyU=YJfV?1AhGH.]`fe߃xtp`
19:19:02 <Bike> are you a sufi?
19:19:14 <Taneb> I... am an ACT-or
19:20:10 <shachaf> `? hi
19:20:13 <HackEgo> hi? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:20:36 <hagb4rd> ow bike.. you know about sufis?
19:20:54 <Bike> "ow"? does that pain you?
19:21:02 <hagb4rd> erm. no
19:21:14 <hagb4rd> it's just pronounec differently in german
19:21:15 <Bike> then why would you say "ow".
19:21:26 <hagb4rd> because i need to learn from you
19:21:26 <quintopia> HackEgo is back! and spewing random garbage! hurray!
19:22:00 <hagb4rd> bike: so how do you express the feeling of surprise?
19:22:05 <Taneb> quintopia, nah, that's just the only adequate way of describing Ngevd
19:22:17 <Bike> "wow", "huh", "gosh", "my stars and garters"
19:22:45 <hagb4rd> great. or are sufis just the guys flying planes in two towers?
19:22:53 <Fiora> Bike: didn't you comment the other day that you absorbed gosh from me?
19:23:38 <Bike> hagb4rd: what, no they're not
19:23:41 <Taneb> Golly, what an extraordinary happenstance
19:23:49 <Bike> Fiora: probably, since i did and all
19:24:05 <Fiora> sorry, I was just checking my memory
19:24:10 <hagb4rd> bike: i learned a little about sufis from the writing of robert anton wilson
19:24:15 <hagb4rd> +s
19:24:44 <Bike> RAW's kind of full of crap often, you should try actual academics, or - gasp - actual sufis
19:24:50 <hagb4rd> actually it was cosmic trigger. great book. one of my favourites
19:25:41 <hagb4rd> give me an author
19:25:45 <hagb4rd> or die in pain
19:26:00 <Bike> that's not very nice.
19:26:53 <hagb4rd> please
19:26:55 <Bike> but, i don't know that much about sufism particularly, just that it's a mystic/esoteric muslim tradition.
19:27:08 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism#Modern.2Fcontemporary_Sufi_scholars though, conveniently enough....
19:27:17 <hagb4rd> oh yes the wiki article
19:27:23 <hagb4rd> i should've known
19:33:21 <tswett> `run echo $(echo foo)
19:33:22 <HackEgo> foo
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19:38:15 <GreyKnight> `addquote <fizzie> GreyKnight: And Gregor itself is kind of a probability distribution spread all over the globe.
19:38:18 <HackEgo> 903) <fizzie> GreyKnight: And Gregor itself is kind of a probability distribution spread all over the globe.
19:38:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services).
19:38:26 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb.
19:38:58 <Taneb> Is that, the Globe as in the pub in Hexham
19:39:09 <GreyKnight> `addquote <hagb4rd> what is this set? sounds like shakespear <fizzie> Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger.
19:39:13 <HackEgo> 904) <hagb4rd> what is this set? sounds like shakespear <fizzie> Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger.
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20:14:10 <Taneb> Fiora, what did you make of the recent Homestuck update
20:16:38 <coppro> Taneb: what's *not* to make of it
20:17:23 <Taneb> Sense
20:21:39 <Phantom_Hoover> oh man i need to pay attention to homestuck
20:22:31 <Fiora> Taneb: http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/40102764299/
20:22:39 <Fiora> and http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/40058507475/
20:23:45 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe i can leave homestuck on the backburner for a while longer
20:23:54 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, elliott took that path
20:23:59 <Taneb> It didn't end prettily
20:24:17 <Phantom_Hoover> how did it end
20:24:26 <Bike> on sgeo's dread List.
20:24:31 <Fiora> I don't understand why people were fussing over the update so much though <_<; this didn't seem particularly insane to me as updates go I guess?
20:24:51 <Taneb> Did...
20:24:55 <Taneb> Did you watch the flash
20:24:57 <Fiora> yes
20:25:21 <Fiora> rainbows~
20:25:54 <Taneb> It's probably the most doesn't-make-sense-out-of-context page in Homestuck
20:25:58 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
20:26:54 <Fiora> I'm not sure, there's a looooot of those
20:26:55 <Fiora> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006619
20:27:05 <Fiora> and often those arelike, the most wonderful panels <3
20:27:32 <Taneb> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003158
20:27:54 <Fiora> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=pony this one?
20:28:09 <Taneb> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=pony2 more so
20:28:18 <Fiora> wait, there's another? @_@
20:28:31 <Phantom_Hoover> which one has the sexy neighs
20:28:55 <Fiora> ohhhh the one with roxy
20:29:23 <Fiora> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007555 this one too?
20:30:22 <Taneb> I think "every damn page of Homestuck, Problem Sleuth, Bard Quest, and Jailbreak" would work
20:35:30 <kmc> wheeee used pdb (the python debugger) for the first time
20:35:33 <kmc> it does in fact work
20:41:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
20:48:34 <shachaf> I've only ever used it in the form "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()"
20:48:45 <shachaf> But it works nicely.
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21:05:38 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:06:29 <tswett> Hm. How about an esoteric programming language where every component of your program has a temperature. When components interact, temperature is transferred from the hotter one to the colder one.
21:06:33 <tswett> If a component gets too hot or too cold, it malfunctions.
21:06:36 <tswett> Program components get hotter as they are used.
21:08:33 <Taneb> And cool with disuse?
21:09:22 <tswett> Maybe there's just one specific component that coolls constantly.
21:09:39 <Bike> what if components just get more and more inaccurate as they heat, instead of having it be all or nothing?
21:10:21 <tswett> That would be nice.
21:10:26 <Fiora> I wonder how that inaccuracy would be handled. like, arithmetic erorr, or bit errors?
21:10:41 <tswett> Although I feel like maybe there should be a temperature range in which there are no errors at all.
21:10:43 <Fiora> maybe you could have, like, each part of the ALU be a component, and the hotter it is, the greater a chance of a bit flip
21:10:55 <Fiora> and the interpreter simulates the ALU so the bit flips can happen at any stage
21:11:20 <Taneb> tswett, and each component has a different tolerance
21:11:24 <tswett> If the ALU is too hot, bits will start flipping randomly. If the ALU is too cold, bits will randomly fail to flip.
21:11:37 <Fiora> that seems a little bit less physically accurate XD
21:11:40 <Bike> Fiora: i'm thinking of that von neumann paper about computing with inaccurate components. iirc they were analog but depending on the type of digital component that could be easy to figure out, like... oh there tswett goes.
21:11:53 <Bike> i was thinking something rate-oriented would start fucking up the rate, etc
21:12:04 <Fiora> analog seems like it'd fail more gracefully
21:12:17 <Fiora> whereas random bit flips could really do like basically anything
21:12:35 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:12:49 <Taneb> There haven't been many esolangs designed by a group of people
21:12:57 <Taneb> The only one that springs to mind is Wierd
21:13:15 <Bike> there seem to have been several designed primarily by one person, with "helpful" ideas thrown in by stooges on #esoteric.
21:14:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
21:14:13 <Taneb> And then there was that one that definitely isn't an acronym
21:14:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
21:15:10 <Taneb> Which didn't get very far
21:15:22 <Taneb> And it's successor, ABCDEF...G, which get even less far
21:23:40 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
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22:08:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:08:21 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:08:54 <coppro> elliott: pm me you waste of flesh
22:11:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:12:40 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:26:36 <oerjan> `rm -r -f *
22:26:38 <HackEgo> rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
22:26:44 <oerjan> `run rm -r -f *
22:27:10 <oerjan> `ls
22:27:13 <HackEgo> No output.
22:27:23 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
22:27:38 <oerjan> FreeFull: OK i guess that's not what crashes it :P
22:28:05 <oerjan> by itself, at least
22:29:25 <oerjan> `run allquotes | tail -1
22:29:26 <HackEgo> 904) <hagb4rd> what is this set? sounds like shakespear <fizzie> Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger.
22:30:50 <oerjan> <shachaf> I guess oerjan (helloerjan!) will logread this later and add quotes? <-- GreyKnight stole my job!
22:31:36 <fizzie> `run shred --force --iterations=10 --zero --remove canary # maybe this'll finally kill it
22:31:38 <shachaf> helloerjan
22:31:39 <HackEgo> No output.
22:31:40 <fizzie> `run ls -l canary
22:31:44 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:31 canary
22:31:45 <fizzie> :(
22:31:57 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you know what a cocategory would be in Haskell?
22:32:00 <shachaf> monqy: Or you.
22:32:08 <shachaf> I have: (_u :: forall p t s x. p t s -> Either (p t x) (p x s))
22:32:18 <shachaf> (_u :: forall p x. p x x -> ?)
22:32:26 <shachaf> Where ? is either Void or (p b a)
22:32:56 <oerjan> i thought category was a self-dual concept.
22:33:12 <shachaf> Well, this looks like coidentity and cocompsition.
22:33:14 <shachaf> Or something.
22:33:41 <kmc> heh, cute
22:33:54 <shachaf> Also I didn't invent these operations, they arose naturally.
22:33:58 <shachaf> So they must mean something?!
22:34:01 <oerjan> ooh
22:35:41 <oerjan> why not ? = (), btw
22:35:58 <shachaf> Because Void is the dual of ()
22:36:07 <shachaf> An operation :: p a a -> () wouldn't do you very much good.
22:36:09 <shachaf> You already have ()
22:36:39 <oerjan> but basically with Void you are saying that there cannot be any p x x 'es
22:36:56 <shachaf> Right.
22:37:15 <oerjan> shachaf: perhaps instead of the last you should have duals of source and target identities, those are sometimes used when doing categories without objects, i think
22:37:30 <shachaf> ?
22:37:53 <shachaf> These types come about naturally when you try to make an instance Category (Bizarre p a b)
22:37:58 <oerjan> p x x -> p x b _and_ p x x -> p a x
22:38:26 <shachaf> (By the way it's p b a, not p a b.)
22:38:31 <oerjan> OKAY
22:38:42 -!- jix has joined.
22:38:54 <shachaf> Anyway, those look like reasonable functions, but they're not the functions I'm dealing with here. :-)
22:40:57 <oerjan> `? monad tutorial
22:40:58 <HackEgo> Think of a monad as a spacesuite full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. now, you can't put oranges in the space suite or the nucelar waste falls in the ocean, but the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need.
22:42:13 <FreeFull> oerjan: Ok
22:42:58 <oerjan> `? Sgeo
22:43:03 <HackEgo> Sgeo is a language nomad. He invented Metaplace sex.
22:43:35 <oerjan> `learn Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex.
22:43:56 <HackEgo> I knew that.
22:44:44 <olsner> `? olsner
22:44:46 <HackEgo> olsner seems to exist at least.
22:44:50 <olsner> thanks
22:45:29 -!- ais523 has quit.
22:45:55 <oerjan> @tell <GreyKnight> Why does everyone keep quitting when I talk, it's quite rude! <-- WELL IF YOU WANT AN EXPLANATION YOU SHOULD BE HERE WHEN WE JOIN. SHEESH.
22:45:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:48:54 <shachaf> oerjan: When <GreyKnight> manages to overcome the nick restrictions and join IRC, I'm sure they'll be very confused.
22:49:25 <oerjan> there are nick restrictions?
22:50:06 <shachaf> Yes, your nick can't have < or >
22:50:30 <oerjan> @tell GreyKnight <GreyKnight> Why does everyone keep quitting when I talk, it's quite rude! <-- WELL IF YOU WANT AN EXPLANATION YOU SHOULD BE HERE WHEN WE JOIN. SHEESH.
22:50:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:54:57 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
22:54:58 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:43 canary
22:55:13 <oerjan> `rm canary
22:55:16 <HackEgo> No output.
22:55:17 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
22:55:21 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary
22:55:38 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
22:55:39 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary
22:56:17 <oerjan> elliott: if the commit is never made when canary is removed, why would the modification date change...
22:56:39 <oerjan> oh hm wait
22:56:43 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
22:56:44 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary
22:56:51 <oerjan> `ls
22:56:53 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
22:57:02 <oerjan> `touch test
22:57:05 <HackEgo> No output.
22:57:12 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
22:57:14 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary
22:57:23 <oerjan> `run echo test >test
22:57:26 <HackEgo> No output.
22:57:30 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
22:57:31 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary
22:57:39 <oerjan> `ls test
22:57:40 <HackEgo> test
22:57:53 <oerjan> `run rm -f *
22:57:56 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `bin': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `etc': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `factor': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `ibin': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `interps': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `lib': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `luabuild': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `paste': Is a directory \
22:58:03 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
22:58:07 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:58 canary
22:58:18 * c00kiemon5ter absords all three cookies lying outside the forcefield placed by GreyKnight ⌇⌇ 8-D ⌇⌇ .. . .
22:59:11 <c00kiemon5ter> `run mv canary canary_foo
22:59:11 <oerjan> absording them? you, you ... monster!
22:59:13 <HackEgo> No output.
22:59:21 <c00kiemon5ter> `run ls -l canary
22:59:24 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:59 canary
22:59:28 <oerjan> `ls
22:59:30 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
22:59:42 <c00kiemon5ter> it didnt move
22:59:46 <oerjan> `run ls -l `test
22:59:47 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
22:59:50 <oerjan> `run ls -l test
22:59:51 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 5 Jan 9 22:58 test
23:00:36 <c00kiemon5ter> `run sh -c rm canary
23:00:37 <HackEgo> rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
23:01:12 <c00kiemon5ter> `run sh -c 'rm canary'
23:01:15 <HackEgo> No output.
23:01:19 <c00kiemon5ter> `run ls -l canary
23:01:23 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 23:01 canary
23:02:04 <c00kiemon5ter> `run cat canary
23:02:05 <HackEgo> tweet
23:02:12 <c00kiemon5ter> `run echo foo > canary
23:02:15 <HackEgo> No output.
23:02:18 <c00kiemon5ter> `run cat canary
23:02:19 <HackEgo> foo
23:02:26 <c00kiemon5ter> aha
23:02:53 <c00kiemon5ter> `run find . -name "canary" -delete
23:02:58 <HackEgo> No output.
23:03:04 <c00kiemon5ter> `run ls -l canary
23:03:07 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:03 canary
23:03:09 <c00kiemon5ter> ah
23:03:13 <oerjan> `cat canary
23:03:15 <HackEgo> foo
23:03:24 <oerjan> `rm canary
23:03:26 <HackEgo> No output.
23:03:28 <oerjan> `cat canary
23:03:31 <HackEgo> foo
23:03:36 <oerjan> `run ls -l canary
23:03:37 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:03 canary
23:06:00 <c00kiemon5ter> `perl <<< 'unlink("canary");'
23:06:01 <HackEgo> Can't open perl script "<<< 'unlink("canary");'": No such file or directory
23:06:14 <c00kiemon5ter> `run perl <<< 'unlink("canary");'
23:06:17 <HackEgo> No output.
23:06:20 <c00kiemon5ter> `run ls -l canary
23:06:23 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:06 canary
23:06:26 <c00kiemon5ter> <.<
23:06:49 <oerjan> `words --help
23:06:52 <HackEgo> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset
23:09:47 <FreeFull> `perl -e 'unlink("canary");'
23:09:48 <HackEgo> No output.
23:14:11 <c00kiemon5ter> `run ls -l canary
23:14:11 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:06 canary
23:14:56 <oerjan> <Sgeo_> Are there any uses for kinds like (* -> *) -> (* -> *) -> * -> * <-- i think taking the product of two Applicatives has that type
23:15:46 <oerjan> *that kind
23:16:08 <olsner> there are uses for all kinds of kinds
23:16:51 <olsner> `quote
23:16:53 <HackEgo> 61) <fungot> i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys)
23:16:54 <olsner> `quote kind
23:16:56 <HackEgo> 182) <elliott> quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror <elliott> typing is kind of difficult \ 206) <oklopol> hey speaking of young, some kinds asked me to buy some tobacco for them and i did, and then they were all likd "wow that guy's coool" when i told them i don't need their money \
23:17:27 <olsner> oh my, oklopol misleading the young
23:17:31 <olsner> `quote 206
23:17:32 <HackEgo> 206) <oklopol> hey speaking of young, some kinds asked me to buy some tobacco for them and i did, and then they were all likd "wow that guy's coool" when i told them i don't need their money
23:17:55 <olsner> or maybe he just knows stuff about tobacco and youth that the rest of us don't
23:20:39 <olsner> `quote bored
23:20:40 <HackEgo> 181) <Sgeo> Oh. Stuff that uses actual physical numbers stemming from science. Bleh *gets bored* \ 258) <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, incidentally, I started my explorations again after getting bored of the Himalayas.
23:20:58 <olsner> `quote boring
23:21:00 <HackEgo> 117) <CakeProphet> how does a "DNA computer" work. <CakeProphet> von neumann machines? <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. <Phantom_Hoover> It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 183) <Sgeo> My quotes are boring \ 342) <oklopol> yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm consideri
23:21:14 <olsner> `quote 342
23:21:16 <HackEgo> 342) <oklopol> yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm considering getting a live one since stuff like "hello $name, your first name $first_name has |$first_name| letters, so by using numerology we can tell ..." is getting kind of boring
23:22:09 * olsner imagines oklopol kidnapping a live psychic for fortune telling purposes
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