00:00:22 <Bike> what about it?
00:01:44 <Bike> hm who can we hack in greenland
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00:33:45 <zzo38> I have added specification of ICO and of a few of the ETC/8000????
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02:11:53 <Sgeo> When I google for newspeak nof, I do not expect Google to change nof to of without telling me explicitly
02:13:01 <coppro> stick it inside quotes
02:15:09 <Sgeo> I did, that works, but I do expect at least a "Showing results for of; Search instead for nof"
02:27:22 <Sgeo> I don't think I like Actors
02:27:35 <Bike> is that the Scheme thing or what
02:27:37 <Sgeo> Or at least, I don't like having a single mailbox for each actor
02:27:43 <Sgeo> Bike, most well known in Erlang
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02:31:34 <Bike_> So is there an Erlangtalk here?
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02:40:14 <Sgeo> bah the old newspeak forums are dead and I can't see what I posted
02:40:21 <Sgeo> Other than that I posted two threads
02:41:03 <Sgeo> I searched for newspeak sgeo
02:41:09 <Sgeo> "Did you mean: newspeak good "
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02:42:35 <Bike> google likes you!
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02:47:16 <Sgeo> kmc, you've done Newspeak stuff?
02:47:28 <Sgeo> At least, there's a Keegan on BitBucket who has
02:48:21 <evincar> I went to Google today and was under NDA but they didn't tell us anything that isn't public. :(
02:48:49 <Sgeo> lol "SqueakNOS is back! - 2006-05-16 - gera
02:49:54 <evincar> I did run a forkbomb on one of the the Chromebooks they had on display though.
02:50:00 <kmc> well played
02:50:17 <Sgeo> hmm, how does that work? Is there a way to access a console?
02:50:34 <Sgeo> Oh, or some Javascript that crashes the brows... wait, hmm
02:50:41 <evincar> There is an underpowered console which runs in the browser.
02:50:54 <kmc> you can forkbomb IE6 from the address bar
02:50:57 <evincar> And has access to some native things via Chrome.
02:51:14 <kmc> about:<script>while(1){window.open(document.url);}</script>
02:51:16 <kmc> or something like that
02:51:41 <Bike> does navigating to a javascript: url not work?
02:51:45 <kmc> that might work too
02:52:08 <kmc> this is a dim memory from approximately a billion years ago
02:52:45 <evincar> Also the keyboard is shitty.
02:53:12 <evincar> Capslock is replaced with a super key with a search icon on it.
02:53:29 <evincar> And there's no menu, home/end/pgup/pgdn/etc.
02:53:43 <evincar> Not even by way of a function key.
02:54:14 <kmc> damn it intel why do you have 38573645 different instructions named "shuffle"
02:54:24 <evincar> Then again I'm one of the 5 people left in the world who still uses a menu key.
02:54:41 <ais523> evincar: I use it by mistake sometimes, and intentionally a bit less often
02:55:30 <Bike> I have it bound to WM stuff, so I don't really use it.
02:55:39 <myndzi> i really hate how dell or whoever rearranged the six pack
02:55:44 <myndzi> why would you do that?
02:55:54 <myndzi> i can understand removing that whole chunk of keyboard, but not just destandardizing it
02:56:18 <evincar> One rationale I've heard from a Logitech guy is that "Insert" confuses people.
02:56:26 <evincar> So they use a double-high Delete.
02:56:47 <evincar> But still put Ins above Del on the same row as the F keys.
02:56:56 <myndzi> i've never used sysrq but you don't see me complaining!
02:57:04 <evincar> Causing Pause/Break and Scroll Lock to get out of whack.
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02:57:14 <evincar> It's this terrible chain reaction.
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03:19:59 <shachaf> kmc: The good one is pshufb.
03:22:27 <kmc> i don't know what the difference is
03:22:37 <kmc> sometimes the mnemonics differ between intel and AT&T :(
03:22:46 <Bike> do they really
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03:23:22 <shachaf> Isn't v the one that takes three operands?
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03:24:25 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEX_prefix
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03:31:22 <shachaf> kmc: I hear the "cool byte shuffling instructions" are Knuth's MOR and MXOR.
03:34:00 <kmc> those are nic
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04:05:17 * shachaf doesn't track megaseconds.
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04:07:52 <shachaf> At least I noticed kmc over 9000 day!
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04:15:58 <Sgeo> kmc, you are over 9000 units of some dimension
04:30:42 <shachaf> «We're grateful for Greg's many contributions to Sequoia over the last 12 years. His wikipedic knowledge, quick wit, and uncanny ability to connect seemingly unrelated ideas made him a joy to work with.»
04:31:04 <shachaf> Is that a sort of backhanded compliment?
04:31:24 <ion> Wikipedic knowledge sounds like a bad thing.
04:35:45 <TeruFSX> that's definitely an insult
04:35:51 <TeruFSX> i don't know how they got away with that
04:36:11 <kmc> what's the difference between MOVAPS and MOVDQA
04:36:40 <Bike> how many jokes are there about intel's mnemonics not being very mnemonic
04:37:50 <shachaf> kmc: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6678073/difference-between-movdqa-and-movaps-x86-instructions
04:38:04 <kmc> i wonder if loongson has official han character mnemonics
04:38:08 <kmc> probably not but that would be amazing
04:38:30 <kmc> 'On some (but not all) micro-architectures, there are timing differences due to "domain crossing penalties"'
04:38:37 <kmc> ok now you're just making shit up
04:38:54 <Bike> is that term especially made-up-sounding...?
04:39:09 <kmc> no it's just more complexity than i want to think about
04:39:19 <Bike> welcome to assembly?
04:39:22 <kmc> MOVAPS two cycles slower due to transfer at Oxford Circus
04:40:18 <shachaf> What are you doing with x86 instructions?
04:40:57 <shachaf> This isn't for mosh, is it?
04:42:54 <shachaf> Oh, those things you were working on?
04:48:49 <shachaf> oerjan: Don't you ever get tired of logreading?
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04:52:01 <shachaf> monqy: you should draw a self portrait of oerjan
04:52:58 <monqy> i remember when i drew self portraits
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04:53:22 <shachaf> imo some of your finest work
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05:22:35 <Sgeo> "Are you proud when you explain this [primitives] to a non-Smalltalker?"
05:22:47 <Sgeo> (On a presentation about Newspeak)
05:22:53 <Sgeo> Referring to Bike's objection
05:25:59 <shachaf> Security vulnerability in the pure-Haskell implementation of TLS!
05:26:12 <Bike> gosh i'm like some kind of smalltalkkin
05:26:28 <ion> shachaf: No wai
05:29:38 <kmc> shachaf: haha
05:29:40 <kmc> what's the vuln?
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05:32:43 <shachaf> https://github.com/vincenthz/hs-tls/issues/29
05:34:51 <shachaf> I'm not sure why Haskell people seem to insist on implementing everything themselves.
05:35:12 <ion> Implementing crypto by yourself – what could possibly go wrong?
05:35:55 <zzo38> shachaf: To me "mathematically correct", maybe.
05:35:58 <kmc> software is automatically better if written in haskell
05:36:02 <kmc> that said, a lot of language communities do this
05:36:21 <shachaf> I don't see Ruby people implementing their own cryptography things so much.
05:36:24 <kmc> you can find pure python implementations of everything
05:36:26 <shachaf> Maybe I'm just out of touch.
05:36:32 <kmc> it's a question of whether people actually use it or whether they're toys
05:36:33 <shachaf> kmc: Sure, but are they *standard*?
05:36:58 <kmc> and there is a certain appeal to having your security critical primitives written in a high level memory safe language with some level of static assurance
05:37:12 <kmc> is hs-tls standard? what do you mean by that
05:37:14 <kmc> is it in the Platform?
05:37:32 <shachaf> I mean the things that all the web frameworks etc. seem to use.
05:37:57 <shachaf> I don't think there's much of a high-level cryptography API that's made over bindings to OpenSSL, say.
05:38:54 <kmc> hs-tls is used by all the web frameorks?
05:39:35 <kmc> not clear your web framework should even be doing SSL
05:39:35 <shachaf> I don't mean hs-tls specifically, but most of the cryptography libraries that I've come across.
05:39:45 <kmc> terminating SSL at a frontend reverse proxy / app container is common
05:40:26 <kmc> to be fair OpenSSL is written in an unsafe language and is also shitty
05:40:34 <kmc> i mean, somebody has to try to do better
05:40:39 <kmc> but they are going to get burnt repeatedly
05:40:43 <kmc> especially if they are not experts
05:40:46 <kmc> and SSL is fucking complicated
05:40:49 <kmc> i'm so glad Mosh doesn't use DTLS
05:40:52 <kmc> this came up again today
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05:45:30 <zzo38> To some, deism means that God created the universe but does not affect it now. When I said that I don't believe the Jews are God's chosen people and all that stuff is just mythology, I did not mean that God does nothing since. God is beyond comprehension and now you are trying to put it into something you understand, even though it cannot understand, so that is an error.
05:45:50 <shachaf> zzo38: Would you say that everything exists?
05:46:03 <zzo38> What Wikipedia says about deism is different.
05:46:13 <pikhq> And I think that God is a hypothesis with near-zero likelihood.
05:46:58 <zzo38> People don't even agree what "God" is, regardless if you think so or not. (This applies to me too, of course.)
05:47:15 <shachaf> pikhq: imo there is a very high likelihood for my existence
05:47:49 <zzo38> shachaf: However, although I may say that everything exists, I now say, what is exist? Physical existence? Universal existence? Mathematical existence? It is different!
05:48:44 <Bike> thinking that questions about god are stymied by people not agreeing on what "god" means is called "ignosticism", for reference
05:49:12 <zzo38> Yes, I know that is called "ignosticism"; I did see that on Wikipedia.
05:49:28 <zzo38> So I do sometimes call some of my ideas ignostic, too.
05:51:42 <zzo38> I do study philosophy of much.
05:51:58 <shachaf> `addquote <zzo38> I do study philosophy of much.
05:52:06 <HackEgo> 933) <zzo38> I do study philosophy of much.
05:52:28 <shachaf> kmc: lens now has a function which pays a 1000x constant factor for the common case to avoid a space leak in the unusual case.
05:52:34 <shachaf> I feel kind of bad about that.
05:52:49 <shachaf> But I don't know what the right answer is.
05:52:53 <shachaf> Space leaks are really annoying.
05:53:05 <zzo38> shachaf: Can you perhaps fix it, or make up a separate function for the unusual case?
05:53:06 <shachaf> You can profile a slow thing, but a space leak will just freeze your computer.
05:57:29 <zzo38> I am not a humanist religion. Humanity is just one of the life on the Earth, the Earth is just one of the planets in the solar system, and so on. The absolute reality is the universe as a whole; we divide it to understand it in different ways.
05:57:53 <shachaf> zzo38: You should fix our issue with the function!
05:57:59 <shachaf> It gets the rightmost element of a tree.
05:58:40 <zzo38> I may look, but I don't even know exactly how to fix it necessarily.
05:59:24 <shachaf> https://github.com/ekmett/lens/issues/245
06:03:17 <Gregor> Here's an idea for a FUSE filesystem: Just overlay over another filesystem, presenting all targets from Makefiles as pseudofiles that will be created on-demand.
06:03:25 <Sgeo> Smalltalkers are utterly utterly insane http://vimeo.com/50530082
06:06:27 <Bike> this is silly.
06:06:43 <zzo38> I do not like the way FUSE works; I would prefer it to continue running while active rather than terminate, and to be accessible in a subdirectory of the process directory (in /proc/) instead of the other one.
06:06:48 <Sgeo> http://netjam.org/quoth/
06:07:03 <Sgeo> Search that page for Play 4 times
06:07:03 <zzo38> (And you could create a link if you wanted it in a separate directory)
06:07:21 <pikhq> zzo38: IIRC FUSE filesystems don't terminate, they just daemonize.
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07:24:48 <kmc> shachaf: it's so lame that system calls have to use memory to transfer data
07:24:55 <kmc> i want to read 16 bytes from a file directly into %xmm0!
07:26:03 <shachaf> Making an asynchronous interface for that sounds like fun.
07:28:14 <shachaf> The OS is going to read it into the page cache anyway unless you do something weird, so you might a well just mmap it and copy it from memory or something.
07:28:30 <shachaf> I guess you want the disk controller to copy data straight to a register too?
07:28:35 <shachaf> You should patent DRA before someone else does.
07:28:36 <kmc> what if it's a terminal
07:29:20 <kmc> terminals: best type of file?
07:29:51 <shachaf> > compare "terminal" "disk"
07:33:48 <kmc> sleep, 'night all
07:57:10 <shachaf> Fiora: Do you like the guessing game "x86 instruction mnemonic or CAPTCHA?"?
07:57:58 <Fiora> I think my favorite insane one is still phminposuw
07:58:41 <shachaf> Pft. That one's almost pronounceable.
07:59:04 <Fiora> packed horizontal minimum position unsigned word
07:59:37 <shachaf> You should get MOR and MXOR into x86.
07:59:41 <Fiora> take a vector of 8 uint16_ts, return {minimum value, position of minimum value}
08:00:10 <Fiora> single-cycle (throughput at least) 8-way minimum~ it's fun, the name is just ridiculously long XD
08:00:15 <fizzie> PUNPCKLQDQ and such make for funky names, too, due to how they dropped the 'a' from 'pack'.
08:00:39 <fizzie> If only they'd gone all out with vowel-dropping and made it PNPCKLQDQ.
08:00:48 <fizzie> It's not "pack" when it's PCK.
08:00:57 <fizzie> Also "liq-diq" sounds dirty.
08:01:11 <Fiora> .... oh geez it does >_<
08:02:17 <shachaf> It does matrix multiplication of two 64-bit registers treated as 8x8 matrices.
08:02:23 <Fiora> what architecture is that?
08:02:24 <shachaf> Using AND and OR instead of + and *
08:02:35 <Fiora> wait, so, each entry in the matrix is 1-bit?
08:02:44 <Fiora> wow I think that could actually be used in some FEC code I saw a while ago
08:02:56 <Fiora> that's a crazy instruction, was it fast?
08:03:07 <shachaf> MMIX has never been built, so who knows?
08:03:55 <Fiora> oh... I guess I was confusing it with something else
08:04:09 <Fiora> ohhhh. it's Knuth's thing
08:04:40 * Fiora tries to think of odd simd instructions she's seen
08:05:00 <Fiora> I think NEON has a simd leading-zero count. which isn't really that weird I guess
08:05:08 <shachaf> MOR/MXOR give you pshufb, among other things.
08:05:18 <shachaf> Except instead of shuffling you can or/xor bytes.
08:05:41 <shachaf> (So instead of a byte index like 0,1,2,3, you give a mask like 1,2,4,8 for the byte you want.)
08:05:48 <Fiora> oh apparently there's an FPGA implementation of MMIX o_O
08:06:22 <shachaf> Maybe MMIX is the future of computing.
08:06:27 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMIX#Hardware_implementations
08:06:51 <shachaf> FPGA isn't really hardware, is it?
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08:09:57 <shachaf> Maybe I should write an MMIX emulator to learn about writing emulators.
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08:21:25 <zzo38> GCC even can compile into MMIX. (LLVM cannot)
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08:24:37 <fizzie> What's arguably more funky is that it's part of mainline GCC distribution, and not just someone's patchset.
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08:26:53 <fizzie> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/MMIX-Options.html and so on.
08:29:31 <shachaf> Apparently there is a Linux port.
08:35:56 <zzo38> I think MMIX is good but I don't like the rN register and think it should be replaced.
08:36:34 <shachaf> Remind me what that register is?
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08:37:51 <zzo38> Read-only register specifying the serial number.
08:39:10 <shachaf> Yes, it should be replaced with a register that specifies the National Identity Number of the current user.
08:41:36 <zzo38> No, it should probably be replaced with something more useful, such as a hypervisor register.
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08:49:53 <shachaf> Have I mentioned that De Bruijn sequences are the best thing yet?
08:50:20 <Fiora> those are the cool things you can use for stuff like leading zero count, right?
08:50:23 <Fiora> and population count
08:50:33 <shachaf> Isn't it trailing 0 count?
08:50:38 <Fiora> you can do both, I think
08:51:06 <shachaf> That's pretty neat if true.
08:51:19 <shachaf> Anyway I first heard of them in a talk about magic.
08:52:28 <shachaf> The presentation I saw was, roughly:
08:52:42 <shachaf> Giving 5 people a deck of cards, telling one of them to cut it randomly.
08:52:50 <shachaf> Then have each one take the top card and pass the deck to the next one.
08:53:17 <shachaf> Then doing all sorts of mind-reading things and saying "I'm getting a strong sense of RED... Stand up if you have a red card".
08:53:28 <shachaf> Then naming all the cards.
08:53:53 <shachaf> This is the only good "mathematical" magic thing I've ever seen.
08:55:23 <Fiora> I think my favorite magic trick is the one where the magician plays a simultaneous chess game with extremely skilled people
08:55:30 <Fiora> and beats/ties half
08:55:49 <Fiora> by copying the moves of one half of the players against the other half, to play them against each other
08:55:51 <shachaf> I saw that presented as a puzzle, not a magic trick.
08:56:04 <Fiora> really? I think I remember hearing it done by a magician or something
08:56:18 <shachaf> Magicians will do anything these days!
08:56:25 <shachaf> I first came across it in a computer game.
08:56:44 <shachaf> I once wrote a program that used the same idea to spy on people's conversations on omegle.com
08:56:52 <shachaf> The trouble is, most people's conversations are very boring.
08:57:36 <shachaf> (I assume other people have done the same thing there. Who knows how many relays your messages are going through! That's the trouble with anonymity.)
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09:00:28 <shachaf> Fiora: Anyway isn't that card magic thing great?
09:00:53 <Fiora> it works by putting the cards in a de bruijin sequnece or something?
09:01:21 <shachaf> You have red/black as bits, so you make a base-2 de bruijn sequence.
09:01:34 <shachaf> If you have 6 people, that's enough for 64 cards.
09:01:45 <shachaf> You can encode the suit in two bits and the value in 4 bits.
09:01:59 <shachaf> He came up with a system such that he doesn't have to memorize the whole sequence, too, he can just work it out.
09:02:12 <shachaf> It's pretty neat how the more people you have, the easier it gets.
09:02:20 <shachaf> (With 5 people you can only do 32 cards.)
09:03:26 <shachaf> @brain Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
09:03:31 <shachaf> @brain Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
09:03:31 <lambdabot> I think so, Commander Brain from Outer Space! But do we have time to grease the rockets?
09:04:20 <shachaf> There are so many neat applications of De Bruijn sequences.
09:04:54 <shachaf> If you have a keypad lock that doesn't require an "end" key, you can come up with the shortest sequence that will try every combination.
09:05:19 * shachaf tries to remember some other neat applications.
09:10:54 <zzo38> I will look it up in Wikipedia so that I can understand it better.
09:11:41 <shachaf> zzo38: Perhaps you should move to California.
09:11:47 <shachaf> That way you would understand it well.
09:11:51 <zzo38> Is certainly a good idea, I think.
09:13:00 <zzo38> No, I mean De Bruijn
09:13:17 <shachaf> De Bruijn invented everything good.
09:14:10 <zzo38> No, not everything; I just like mathematics, though.
09:14:58 <shachaf> He invented De Bruijn indices, too.
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09:28:31 <shachaf> Do you search for your nick or read the whole thing?
09:29:31 <lambdabot> Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> (a, a) -> f (b, b)
09:29:50 <oerjan> unless it's too damn long or i'm too tired or the goblins in the cupboard are too noisy.
09:29:52 <shachaf> Any opinions on debru ijn sequences?
09:31:27 <oerjan> "something about how they're less repetitive than you".
09:34:14 <fizzie> Ooh, a "de burn-ij" reply.
09:35:44 <oerjan> DARN FINNS STEALING OUR PUNS
09:35:55 <shachaf> oerjan: Are yoerjan calling me repetitive?
09:36:35 <shachaf> Has Norwegian invented puns yet?
09:38:03 <oerjan> of course not, we stole them from the brits, who stole them from the french, who stole them from the romans who stole them from the greeks who stole them from the phoenicians who stole them from the babylonians who got them from ancient aliens and what was i saying about being repetitive again.
09:38:40 <oerjan> (you don't steal from ancient aliens, look how that went for the gomorrans)
09:40:16 <oerjan> the ancient aliens didn't invent them either, they just got it from time travelers (together with the time travel)
09:42:55 <oerjan> `addquote <Sgeo> I searched for newspeak sgeo <Sgeo> "Did you mean: newspeak good "
09:43:00 <HackEgo> 934) <Sgeo> I searched for newspeak sgeo <Sgeo> "Did you mean: newspeak good "
09:47:16 <oerjan> <kmc> damn it intel why do you have 38573645 different instructions named "shuffle" <-- are they in random order too?
09:47:47 <Fiora> and they're formatted differently too!
09:47:53 <fizzie> 934 quotes, isn't that a bit too many quotes?
09:48:27 <oerjan> fizzie: not if they're all good
09:49:03 <shachaf> I bet kmc is working on a super-secret weblog post that we all can't know about.
09:49:15 <shachaf> That's why he's being so secretive.
09:49:43 <fizzie> oerjan: Are they all good?
09:50:17 <oerjan> i dunno but when they do that five quote thing they frequently don't find anything to delete
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09:52:04 <zzo38> I think 934 quote is not too much, is OK to have many quotations, I think.
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09:53:35 <fizzie> fungot: Is it okay to have many quotations?
09:53:36 <fungot> fizzie: ( the native sparc variant, that is and it seems to me that it's lf not crlf
09:53:54 <fungot> fizzie: i feel bad now. that feels weird. riastradh, are you putting the poor parentheses all apart and away from their comrades?
09:54:11 <ais523> fizzie: I don't see why CPU architectures can't have favoured line endings…
09:54:28 <fizzie> ais523: Not helpful re the amount of quotes, I mean.
09:55:10 <fizzie> (Also I didn't know fungot even had feelings.)
09:55:10 <fungot> fizzie: for instance clc-intercal exposed a bug in my code
09:55:33 <fungot> shachaf: if we have ( ( rec ( f n d c) ( ( a) it determines what code one uses to access structure members. a functor is a class
09:55:49 <shachaf> ais523: Do you know all about subtyping?
09:56:22 <ais523> mostly in the context of Javaish OO, because I teach Java
09:56:23 <shachaf> I feel like subtyping is way more complicated than not-subtyping.
09:56:30 <ais523> and am going up to the lecture room in a couple of minutes
09:56:44 <shachaf> And also mutability + subtyping sounds really complicated.
09:56:59 <ais523> I don't normally teach on Thursdays this term, but I'm covering for someone who hadn't been hired at the time
09:57:00 <oerjan> <shachaf> kmc: Oh, I missed it. <-- wat.
09:57:06 <shachaf> ais523: Did you know Java has covariant arrays?!
09:57:39 <oerjan> shachaf: * shachaf doesn't track megaseconds.
09:57:42 <ais523> shachaf: and the fact that they only have the one sort of variance catches people out
09:57:57 <shachaf> They only have one sort of variance?
09:58:11 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, it was megasecond 1,359.
09:58:11 <oerjan> mutable arrays are supposed to be invariant.
09:58:43 <oerjan> what's significant about that...
09:58:43 <shachaf> kmc used a secret type of message not visible to glogbot to say it, though.
10:00:06 <fizzie> Every megasecond is significant.
10:00:21 <fizzie> There's only so many of them left, after all.
10:00:47 <oerjan> `frink megasecond in days
10:00:56 <HackEgo> 2194560000 m s^2 (unknown unit type)
10:01:17 <HackEgo> 2194560000 m s^2 (unknown unit type)
10:01:31 <oerjan> `frink megasecond --> days
10:01:38 <HackEgo> Syntax error: <String>, line 1, near column 12 \ megasecond --> days \ ^ \ 1 error(s) occurred during parsing.
10:01:41 <oerjan> `frink megasecond -> days
10:01:48 <HackEgo> 625/54 (approx. 11.574074074074074)
10:03:02 <fizzie> I like how Wikipedia is sometimes nicely deadpan in tone.
10:03:06 <fizzie> "According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, which would eventually reach a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable would occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s whilst using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."
10:03:39 <shachaf> i love psilocybin mushrooms and DMT
10:04:24 * oerjan also has had such teleological attractor ideas while completely sober
10:04:54 <oerjan> enough to immediately understand the term without having seen it before
10:06:17 <fizzie> oerjan: You should also write software such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timewave_9_11_2001.png then.
10:07:59 * oerjan slightly wonders about that public domain dedication
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11:38:53 <shachaf> Is the Hausdorff paradox good?
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11:39:09 <shachaf> oerjan would surely know, but he's gone.
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11:43:33 <shachaf> I went to a talk about the Banach-Tarski paradox but it looks like it was only about the Hausdorff paradox?
11:49:17 <fizzie> When you go to a *real* talk on the Banach-Tarski paradox, you'll actually hear two talks on the Banach-Tarski paradox.
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11:52:23 <ais523> the banach-tarski paradox is weird to me
11:52:39 <ais523> because it's intuitively not a paradox, you just take alternating real numbers and split the spheres apart that way
11:52:53 <ais523> obviously, you can't do that, which why weird fractals have to be used instead
11:53:00 <ais523> but it's intuitively much the same thing
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11:55:44 <shachaf> I think the "paradox" part is really about the definition of volume, or something.
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11:58:54 <fizzie> Yes, if you think of it as a solid ball made out of some nebulous things called "points", and that "volume" just means how many of those there are, then it's paradoxical to make two same-sized equally solid balls out of the points of one.
12:00:33 <Jafet> Points? In my finitism?
12:01:23 <Fiora> I always thought the more impressive thing about the paradox was doing it with finitely many pieces, without fancy transformations
12:01:43 <Fiora> the "you can make two spheres out of one" sorta makes sense since the spheres are infinitely dense, so halving the density makes the result equally dense
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12:04:22 <Jafet> Conjecture: any measurable set in R^3 can be duplicated using only four pieces.
12:04:32 <Jafet> Actually, that is probably false
12:04:55 <ogrom> make it non-measurable then
12:05:18 <Fiora> yeah, the /five/ pieces specifically got me
12:05:25 <Fiora> it's like. not just finitely many. but -specifically 5-
12:06:21 <Jafet> It's the floor of the cube root of the reciprocal of the fine structure constant
12:07:50 <shachaf> How many pieces do you need in four dimensions?
12:07:51 <fizzie> It's five times the negative of e to the power of i times π.
12:08:42 <shachaf> It seems like you might need a third axis with 90° rotations?
12:08:48 <shachaf> But I'm just making things up, so who knows.
12:11:15 <Fiora> It's floor(e^e/e).
12:12:19 <fizzie> The ball in three dimensions is probably doable with four pieces and a bit of extra force, since one of the pieces of the five-piece case can be a single point, and really, I mean, a single point, right?
12:12:41 <shachaf> The version I saw only had a sphere, not a ball.
12:14:12 <fizzie> The abstract of the five-piece thing -- http://projecteuclid.org/DPubS?verb=Display&version=1.0&service=UI&handle=euclid.bams/1183510694&page=record -- says you can do a ball with five, and the surface with four.
12:14:20 * shachaf wonders how to make it a single point.
12:14:27 <shachaf> I bet it's impossible to make it a single point at 4AM.
12:15:03 <shachaf> fizzie: Wait, you can do a sphere with four?
12:15:08 <shachaf> I was told you needed five for that.
12:15:39 <Fiora> http://matwbn.icm.edu.pl/ksiazki/fm/fm34/fm34125.pdf found the paper itself ^^
12:15:59 <shachaf> papers are so easy to find. i love them
12:16:23 <shachaf> Hmm. I have the feeling I will understand none of this at 4AM.
12:16:55 <Fiora> I don't think I'll understand this at any AM or PM ~_~
12:17:46 <shachaf> Well, by understand I mean at least follow the logic, not intuitively or anything.
12:20:39 <Phantom_Hoover> the proof of banach-tarski is actually amazingly simple
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12:21:01 <Phantom_Hoover> the problem is that the meat of it doesn't work at the centre of the sphere or along two arbitrary axes
12:21:41 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: i think I might be talking about the Hausdorff paradox.
12:23:09 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Well, if Banach-Tarski is simple, I bet Hausdorff is even simpler?
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12:25:18 <Phantom_Hoover> (The WP article on Banach-Tarski has a really nice writeup of the proof, FWIW.)
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12:36:44 <shachaf> Taneb: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/keys/3.0.2/doc/html/Data-Key.html
12:37:14 <shachaf> Can someone arrange for there to be exactly one mathematician per last name?
12:37:20 <shachaf> It's pretty confusing otherwise.
12:37:20 <Taneb> Is there a reason lens doesn't use that?
12:37:37 <shachaf> edwardk hates it, or something.
12:37:42 <Taneb> And can I reserve being the mathematician called "van Doorn"?
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12:38:27 <shachaf> This fellow is sort of a mathematician: http://wwwhome.math.utwente.nl/~doornea/
12:38:33 <shachaf> "Department of Applied Mathematics" -- maybe not.
12:39:00 <Taneb> shachaf: I said "reserve", not "be"
12:39:39 <shachaf> http://genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=139020
12:39:41 <shachaf> http://genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=88403
12:39:44 <shachaf> http://www.genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=51105
12:39:53 <shachaf> "Classification of Regular Holonomic D-Modules"
12:40:51 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-modules even references van Doorn.
12:41:15 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Is your last name "Hoover"?
12:41:38 <Taneb> D-modules are simply modules over the ring of differential operators
12:41:50 <shachaf> Taneb: Might want to `learn that.
12:41:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:42:04 <Phantom_Hoover> `learn D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators.
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12:42:23 <Jafet> Let's begin the lecture with a quick review of some of the most well-known and important results in the field, due to Jake91, TrekMonster, thecrayonguy, and yuckytory.
12:43:42 <shachaf> Lewis Carroll and Jafet, the two best-known pioneers in the field of snark.
12:45:30 <Taneb> `run ls /wisdom | paste
12:45:34 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /wisdom: No such file or directory \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1742
12:45:45 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
12:45:55 <Taneb> `run ls wisdom | paste
12:46:00 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.746
12:46:11 <shachaf> `? phantom____________________hoover
12:46:12 <HackEgo> <span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span>
12:46:22 <shachaf> `? shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
12:46:23 <HackEgo> shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:47:08 <HackEgo> Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus.
12:47:17 <shachaf> `run echo >wisdom/'footnote 8' "Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?"
12:47:22 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
12:47:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?footnote: not found
12:47:37 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
12:47:52 <shachaf> Did you know you could stick >file into the middle of a command line?
12:48:15 <HackEgo> An object is just something in a category.
12:48:26 <HackEgo> Categories are just categories.
12:48:41 <Taneb> Categories are categories in the category of categories
12:48:49 <Taneb> (I don't think they are)
12:49:02 <shachaf> `run for f in wisdom/*; do echo "$f:"; cat "$f"; echo ---; done | paste
12:49:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2340 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: 286 File size limit exceededcat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"
12:49:25 <HackEgo> I've noticed several design suggestions in your code.
12:49:29 <HackEgo> Monoids are just categories with a single object.
12:49:37 <HackEgo> EgoBot is my arch-nemesis.
12:50:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lens: not found
12:50:11 <HackEgo> A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra.
12:50:20 <HackEgo> Im44nƢnt+D \ /B6zz[7V8i0V$#ŝ}NTc-R>6ѯ*Bq
12:50:27 <HackEgo> >>wisdom/d-modules " Taneb invented them."
12:50:36 <shachaf> `run for f in wisdom/*; do [ "$f" == "ngevd" ] && continue; echo "$f:"; cat "$f"; echo ---; done | paste
12:50:37 <Snowyowl> I thought singletons were categories with a single object, and monoids were the little brothers of groups.
12:50:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27157 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: 286 File size limit exceededcat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"
12:50:58 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
12:51:06 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
12:51:07 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
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12:51:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: walk: not found
12:52:03 <HackEgo> Segmentation fault \ Segmentation fault \ lib/karma: 11: arithmetic expression: expecting primary: "-" \ has karma.
12:52:09 <shachaf> `run for f in wisdom/*; do [ "$f" == "wisdom/ngevd" ] && continue; echo "$f:"; cat "$f"; echo ---; done | paste
12:52:28 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1339 \ cat: wisdom/quote formatting: Not a directory
12:52:39 <HackEgo> GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list. \ Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'. \ Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general. \ Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list. \ \ A star (*
12:53:00 <shachaf> `run ls -ld wisdom/*matting*
12:53:01 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 16 Jan 12 20:07 wisdom/quote formatting -> wisdom/qdbformat
12:53:12 <HackEgo> quote formatting? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:53:27 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/quote formatting
12:54:26 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
12:54:41 <shachaf> `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/*
12:55:40 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
12:55:55 <shachaf> `run sed -i 's/$/ (see also: d-modules)/' wisdom/taneb
12:56:02 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules)
12:56:24 <shachaf> @ask Taneb are you guilty of pretending to be a rabbi?
12:59:28 <HackEgo> Siberia is the capital of Finland. It's where the Fields Medahl was first synthesised.
13:07:38 <HackEgo> There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck.
13:07:53 <HackEgo> Brains are just receptacles for bricks.
13:07:57 <HackEgo> Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives.
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13:12:27 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 72 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/gaspacho \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 72 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/gazpacho
13:17:34 <Jafet> `run stat wisdom/ga*
13:17:35 <HackEgo> File: `wisdom/gaspacho' \ Size: 72 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 10h/16dInode: 751966 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2013-01-24 12:54:45.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.00000000
13:17:54 <Jafet> `run stat wisdom/gaz*
13:17:55 <HackEgo> File: `wisdom/gazpacho' \ Size: 72 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 10h/16dInode: 751967 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2013-01-24 12:54:45.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.00000000
13:18:39 <Jafet> `run rm wisdom/gazpacho && ln -s gaspacho wisdom/gazpacho
13:18:50 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
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13:26:57 <Snowyowl> in esolangs where programs can accept input, how do you usually send the source code to the interpreter?
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16:20:56 <Taneb> shachaf, I am guilty of playing a rabbi on stage
16:21:07 <Taneb> Then going to the pub in full costume and make-up as a rabbi
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16:27:09 <Sgeo> If you haven't seen it already
16:27:12 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot
16:27:27 <Taneb> The christmas update?
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16:35:45 <Sgeo> "It just occurred to me: the last time we saw that tree, Jade was celebrating the April 13th. Maybe this means we are finally on April 13th, 2012."
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17:53:46 <Taneb> Today I found out I have a knack for vectors
17:56:57 <Snowyowl> are we talking about maths vectors or computer science vectors?
17:57:41 <Taneb> A knack relative to those around me
17:58:58 <kmc> disease vectors
18:00:04 <Taneb> Got a couple of sheets of exercises to do, I was the only person to finish
18:00:46 <Taneb> I found most of them really obvious and everyone else was struggling
18:01:06 <Taneb> Maybe it's because I already knew how vectors worked?
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18:14:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Snowyowl, cs vectors are just a subset of maths vectors
18:14:51 <Snowyowl> I was thinking specifically of c++ vectors, which are the only ones I know about
18:15:02 <Snowyowl> they're like arrays but they resize themselves
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18:30:04 <oklopol> cs vectors have pretty much nothing to do with math vectors
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18:30:34 <oklopol> as Phantom_Hoover mentioned, they have no linear structure (which is essentially all vector spaces are)
18:30:49 <elliott> oklopol: imo you are a linear structure <:-)
18:30:57 <Phantom_Hoover> yeah i realised about 30 seconds later that you can't even add them
18:31:21 <oklopol> but, vector spaces can be concretely represented as tuples containing elements of the underlying field. this is essentially c++ vectors over a type, but with fixed size.
18:32:22 <oklopol> in a sense, yes, but the fixed size might not be finite
18:32:28 <oklopol> every vector space has a basis
18:32:39 <oklopol> but not necessarily a finite one
18:33:01 <oklopol> why does it have a basis? zornify.
18:34:06 <oklopol> more precisely, zornify sets of linearly independent sets. every chain has an upper bound since a union of such sets is still linearly independent. and a maximal linearly independent set is actually a basis
18:34:21 <oklopol> otherwise it doesn't span some element, which means that element can be added to the set etc
18:34:51 <oklopol> zornify linearly independent sets. or something.
18:36:03 <oklopol> Taneb: what sort of problems?
18:40:35 <Phantom_Hoover> probably dot and cross products and/or parametrised planes in 3d
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18:51:38 <Taneb> oklopol, vector addition and scalar multiplication
18:52:11 <oklopol> so like you're given two vectors and you have to add them?
18:53:49 <quintopia> i dont understand why they are still teaching arithmetic at that age
18:54:29 <Taneb> oklopol, slightly more applied than that. "OACB forms a parallelogram. If O -> A is 3i + j and O -> B is 2i - 2j; what is O -> C
18:55:09 <oklopol> how is that more applied than summing two vectors?
18:55:20 <Taneb> It's applied to geometry
18:55:28 <Taneb> As in, it puts it in a question
18:55:37 <Taneb> It's not "What is 3i + j + 2i - 2j"
18:55:51 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Hovercraft.
18:55:58 <lambdabot> Taneb|Hovercraft: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:56:03 <lambdabot> quintopia said 4m 21d 3h 30m 33s ago: hi
18:57:03 <Sgeo> Maybe I should try NetHack 4 at some point
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19:09:38 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, not yet
19:09:45 <Taneb> Haven't checked the syllabus
19:28:38 <Sgeo> I had this game as a little kid (iirc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVPp6HccTY
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19:47:21 <oerjan> shachaf: what is the hausdorff paradox.
19:47:36 <elliott> oerjan: hell owelcome to #esoteirc and america
19:50:13 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> because it's intuitively not a paradox, you just take alternating real numbers and split the spheres apart that way <-- well the fun comes when you realize you _cannot_ do banach-tarski with just a disk instead of a sphere...
19:53:28 <elliott> oerjan: q: whats an naagram of banach-tarski
19:54:12 <HackEgo> "Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski".
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20:02:43 <oerjan> 12:48:41: <Taneb> Categories are categories in the category of categories
20:02:43 <oerjan> 12:48:49: <Taneb> (I don't think they are)
20:02:56 <oerjan> just change the second "categories" to "objects" hth
20:03:27 <HackEgo> Categories are just categories.
20:04:10 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
20:06:20 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
20:06:42 <HackEgo> Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories.
20:07:43 <oerjan> `run fmt wisdom/d-modules >wisdom/d-module; rm wisdom/d-modules
20:07:53 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
20:08:24 <oerjan> `run sed -i '%j' wisdom/d-module
20:08:25 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `%'
20:08:35 <oerjan> `run sed -i 'j' wisdom/d-module
20:08:36 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `j'
20:08:59 <oerjan> grmble probably vim-only
20:09:12 <elliott> are we having a fun oerjan
20:11:45 <HackEgo> y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
20:12:11 <oerjan> `run sed -i '1s/\n//' wisdom/d-module
20:12:17 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
20:17:11 <Gregor> `run od -x wisdom/d-module
20:17:12 <HackEgo> 0000000 2d44 6f6d 7564 656c 2073 7261 2065 756a \ 0000020 7473 6d20 646f 6c75 7365 6f20 6576 2072 \ 0000040 6874 2065 6972 676e 6f20 2066 6964 6666 \ 0000060 7265 6e65 6974 6c61 6f20 6570 6172 6f74 \ 0000100 7372 0a2e 5420 6e61 6265 6920 766e 6e65 \ 0000120 6574 2064 6874 6d65 0a2e \ 0000132
20:17:28 <Gregor> That's not as helpful as I was hoping X-D
20:17:57 <Gregor> `run cat wisdom/d-module | sed 's/\\/LOL/g'
20:17:58 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them.
20:18:12 <oerjan> `run sed -i -e '1N' -e 's/\n//' wisdom/d-module
20:18:20 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
20:18:44 <boily> `run od -Ax -tx1z -v wisdom/d-module
20:18:45 <HackEgo> 000000 44 2d 6d 6f 64 75 6c 65 73 20 61 72 65 20 6a 75 >D-modules are ju< \ 000010 73 74 20 6d 6f 64 75 6c 65 73 20 6f 76 65 72 20 >st modules over < \ 000020 74 68 65 20 72 69 6e 67 20 6f 66 20 64 69 66 66 >the ring of diff< \ 000030 65 72 65 6e 74 69 61 6c 20 6f 70 65 72 61 74 6f >erential operato< \ 000040 72 73 2e 20 54 61 6e 65 62 20 69 6e
20:18:48 <Gregor> `run ln -s category wisdom/categories
20:18:58 <HackEgo> Categories are just categories.
20:19:17 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: fg: no job control
20:19:42 <Gregor> `run sleep 5 & ; echo In fact, it will always wait for all processes to terminate.
20:19:43 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `;' \ bash: -c: line 0: `sleep 5 & ; echo In fact, it will always wait for all processes to terminate.'
20:19:51 <Gregor> Well, you know what I mean X-D
20:20:00 <HackEgo> `? \ ? \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ais523 \ america \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bike \ boily \ bonvenon \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ categories \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ d-module \ egobot \ ehird \ elliott \ endofunctor \ endomorphism \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ fin
20:20:14 <HackEgo> See `? for further details.
20:20:55 <boily> backtick question question keyboard snowman.
20:21:04 <HackEgo> 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.)
20:21:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ⌨: not found
20:21:32 <oerjan> `run (echo test; echo ho) | sed '1N'
20:22:09 <oerjan> ok it actually preserves the newline then
20:24:31 <HackEgo> wisdom/categories \ wisdom/finns \ wisdom/lens \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/monads \ wisdom/oceans \ wisdom/the us \ wisdom/united states
20:24:48 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
20:24:53 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
20:25:20 <oerjan> `run ls -l wisdom/monad*
20:25:21 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 57 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/monad \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 57 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/monads \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 261 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/monad tutorial
20:25:37 <HackEgo> Think of a monad as a spacesuite full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. now, you can't put oranges in the space suite or the nucelar waste falls in the ocean, but the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need.
20:25:40 <oerjan> `run ls -l wisdom/categor*
20:25:41 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 8 Jan 24 20:18 wisdom/categories -> category \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 32 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/category
20:26:06 <oerjan> `run rm wisdom/monads; ln -s wisdom/monad wisdom/monads
20:30:12 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
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20:31:04 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
20:31:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
20:31:52 <HackEgo> Categories are just categories.
20:32:15 <impomatic> Has anyone else entered Al Zimmermann's programming contest?
20:33:25 <HackEgo> wisdom/`? \ wisdom/? \ wisdom/☃ \ wisdom/⌨ \ wisdom/🐐 \ wisdom/ais523 \ wisdom/america \ wisdom/atriq \ wisdom/augur \ wisdom/banach-tarski \ wisdom/bike \ wisdom/boily \ wisdom/bonvenon \ wisdom/brain \ wisdom/brainf**k \ wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/brick \ wisdom/burma \ wisdom/c \ wisdom/cakeprophet \ wisdom/california \ wisdom/category \ w
20:33:42 <HackEgo> You are probably using one right now!
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20:34:19 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
20:35:20 <Bike> i liked the category one that was about endomorphisms :(
20:37:31 <HackEgo> Endomorphisms are just morphisms which compose with themselves.
20:38:25 <Bike> I don't remember, it was "categories are just..." format
20:39:30 <kmc> @quote analogies.are
20:39:30 <lambdabot> dmwit says: analogies are endofunctors in the category of bad explanations
20:40:28 <oerjan> Bike: are you sure it started with categories
20:43:27 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
20:44:04 <HackEgo> Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories.
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20:44:11 <Bike> Oh, that's what I was thinking of.
20:44:15 <Bike> Mystery Solved
20:47:49 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom | grep -v ngevd | xargs grep -H dahl
20:47:51 <HackEgo> grep: `?: No such file or directory \ grep: ?: No such file or directory \ grep: ⌨: No such file or directory \ grep: ☃: No such file or directory \ grep: 🐐: No such file or directory \ grep: ais523: No such file or directory \ grep: america: No such file or directory \ grep: atriq: No such file or directory \ grep: augur: No such file or di
20:48:49 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; ls | grep -v ngevd | xargs grep -H dahl
20:48:51 <HackEgo> bonvenon:bonvenon Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-o: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dahl.net.) \ esoteric:This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.
20:49:36 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; ls | grep -v ngevd | xargs grep -l dahl
20:49:38 <HackEgo> bonvenon \ esoteric \ grep: footnote: No such file or directory \ grep: 8: No such file or directory \ grep: misspellings: No such file or directory \ grep: of: No such file or directory \ grep: croissant: No such file or directory \ grep: natural: No such file or directory \ grep: transformation: No such file or directory \ grep: shachaf: No such
20:51:05 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; find -print0 | grep -v ngevd | xargs -0 grep -l dahl
20:53:00 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; mv ngevd ..; grep -l dahl *; mv ../ngevd .
20:53:02 <HackEgo> bonvenon \ esoteric \ siberia \ välkommen \ welcome \ wercome
20:53:12 <HackEgo> bonvenon Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-o: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dahl.net.)
20:53:20 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dahl.net.
20:53:26 <HackEgo> Siberia is the capital of Finland. It's where the Fields Medahl was first synthesised.
20:54:22 <HackEgo> Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dahl.net.)
20:54:29 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dahl.net.)
20:54:34 <HackEgo> エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て： http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dahl.netの#esotericへ）
20:55:35 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; mv ngevd ..; sed -i 's/dahl/dal/g' * ; mv ../ngevd .
20:56:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
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20:57:07 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf.
20:57:07 -!- oerjan has kicked shachaf WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU.
20:57:14 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
20:58:13 <boily> on the one hand, the japanese translation is very good, but then ørjan banned shachaf with extreme prejudice.
20:59:05 <Taneb> Did oerjan just kickban shachaf
20:59:32 <oerjan> <shachaf> `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/*
21:01:21 <Gregor> That being said, fix it properly:
21:01:32 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
21:01:35 <kmc> what the hell just happened
21:01:42 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
21:01:49 <Gregor> `run hg diff -r1703:1702 | patch -p1
21:01:55 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/bonvenon \ patching file wisdom/esoteric \ patching file wisdom/monad \ patching file wisdom/siberia \ patching file wisdom/välkommen \ patching file wisdom/welcome \ patching file wisdom/wercome
21:02:37 <elliott> Gregor: btw that's the same as hg diff -c 1703
21:03:00 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
21:03:05 <elliott> does anyone understand this entry
21:03:36 <oerjan> Gregor: btw it is annoying that the revision numbers are not shown on the main log listing
21:03:46 <elliott> looks like SOMEONE removed an entry by accident
21:03:50 <Taneb> `learn D-Modules are simply modules in the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
21:03:54 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
21:03:59 <Gregor> oerjan: Yeah, 'struth... happen to know of an hgweb style that shows them?
21:04:37 <boily> `learn `learn learns about `learn.
21:04:47 <oerjan> I REMOVED IT BECAUSE LOOKUPS SHOULD BE SINGULAR FIRST, ALSO SOFT LINKS DON'T WORK IN WISDOM
21:04:51 <HackEgo> `learn learns about `learn.
21:05:06 <boily> `run rm wisdom/`learn
21:05:07 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
21:05:13 <boily> `run rm wisdom/\`learn
21:05:24 <Gregor> `run ls -l wisdom/ngevd
21:05:25 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/ngevd -> /dev/urandom
21:06:02 <HackEgo> quachaf \ queegan \ quoerjan \ quørjan \ quote \ quotes
21:06:10 <elliott> `run ls bin | grep 'rjan$'
21:06:12 <HackEgo> quoerjan \ quørjan \ translatetoerjan \ zalgoerjan
21:07:29 <oerjan> ...ok i don't know why ngevd works when the others didn't.
21:07:40 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
21:07:44 <HackEgo> $8544LoۮOƴ?H\rb+E/lq:)~%0]'+.Puy!TIӫ \ 6/ȱtO5h \ *YgƿRZj54O?Нq[H·/FB8fr(٪.#mh-,jOm*ωb̗lÖS_d2tQ1Yu^舘|-!F_s9fp"lHji!\F*t%:@62n%i2ܵ㛫lŅ.kT"e8^#֡4HJ6R{јq%Zh
21:07:58 <elliott> the ngevd entry is the best thing in the universe imo
21:08:00 <Gregor> oerjan: Since when do the others not? category worked fine.
21:08:37 <boily> ngevd transcends links.
21:09:09 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
21:09:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: runls: not found
21:09:20 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/ngevd -> /dev/urandom
21:09:27 <coppro> this window is the worst window
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21:11:47 <oerjan> Gregor: while you're at it find a style that allows wikipedia style single change undo. i made a mess and now you've already changed things. :( which is the same reason i got angry at shachaf btw :P
21:12:27 <Gregor> Single change undo: `run hg diff -c <revision to undo> | patch -p1
21:12:45 <Gregor> Err, patch -R -c1 for -c
21:13:00 <elliott> `run echo "#!/bin/sh" >bin/undo; echo 'hg diff -c "$@" | patch -R' >>bin/undo; chmod +x bin/undo
21:13:05 <elliott> that's the form I've used in the patch
21:13:23 <Gregor> Pretty sure it needs -p1...
21:13:56 <HackEgo> The next patch, when reversed, would delete the file undo, \ which does not exist! Ignore -R? [n] \ Apply anyway? [n] \ Skipping patch. \ 1 out of 1 hunk ignored
21:14:23 <HackEgo> diff -r 63d5921a3c8a -r ab80805a8878 bin/undo \ --- /dev/nullThu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 \ +++ b/bin/undoThu Jan 24 21:13:03 2013 +0000 \ @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@ \ +#!/bin/sh \ +hg diff -c "$@" | patch -R
21:14:27 <elliott> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?revcount=100&rev=-R
21:14:35 <elliott> this shows that I've used | patch -R in the past
21:14:42 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:14:43 <Gregor> I guess I'm imagining things.
21:17:57 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
21:18:12 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf.
21:18:21 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
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21:55:19 <zzo38> Do GCC or LLVM do any calculation such as strlen and strdup and so on at compile time if possible?
21:56:14 <Bike> strdup at compile time?
21:58:15 <zzo38> For example if there is a code only running once, which calls strdup("Hello, World!") which is also known not to be realloc or free, it might be able to place it in a separate buffer if the target ABI supports that, and the optimization settings are correct for that.
21:58:39 <zzo38> But even if it is dynamic and runs more than once, the string length can be optimized if it is faster to copy the memory knowing the length ahead of time.
21:59:10 <zzo38> Does the new C standards have a "memdup" command, or only "strdup"?
22:00:30 <zzo38> I mean that memdup will be like malloc and memcpy together.
22:02:27 <zzo38> Or even such optimization that might be done, such as printf("%u",x%10) might be able to be changed to putchar((x%10)+'0')
22:02:36 -!- shachaf has joined.
22:02:53 <Bike> strdup with you casting the memory to char* isn't ok?
22:03:11 <kmc> no, it might have nulls
22:03:28 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, that is what I mean.
22:03:39 <Bike> well, memdup seems easy to write, at least
22:03:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
22:03:54 <zzo38> Yes, I do think it is easy to write.
22:04:18 <shachaf> I guess oerjan is really not a fan of Roald Dahl?
22:04:39 <Bike> printf for constant strings seems like it'd be a profitable optimization, not to mention helps safety?
22:05:43 <shachaf> 20:59:32: <oerjan> <shachaf> `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/*
22:05:53 <zzo38> Something mentioned on esolang wiki is optimizing to save energy. Does any compiler do this? Is it even possible in any cases?
22:06:20 <Bike> like, physical power?
22:06:38 <Bike> maybe for embedded systems or something, i doubt anyone cares for desktops
22:07:23 <Sgeo> Is "We might call you in a few months if an entry-level Python position becomes available" the same as "Fuck you, you'll never hear from us again?"
22:10:31 <oerjan> <shachaf> I guess oerjan is really not a fan of Roald Dahl? <-- not when he's sabotaging urls, no.
22:11:11 <shachaf> That's a domain name, not a URL.
22:11:26 <shachaf> Anyway, OK? URLs are off-limits?
22:13:13 <oerjan> THAT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE AN EXHAUSTIVE RULE
22:14:08 <shachaf> I thought the whole point of HackEgo was chaos etc. or something.
22:16:41 <oerjan> from chaos one passes to enlightened dictatorship. haven't you read your hobbes?
22:21:39 <ion> Welcome bachaf
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22:30:59 <olsner> oerjan: omg you finally banned shachaf
22:32:06 <olsner> or perhaps thay should be "finally shachaf" ... one does not simply the verb, after all
22:32:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:35:44 <olsner> "Very little has been said about this... " is not an appropriate start of the thousandth repost of the runner-does-nice-thing picture and story
22:36:49 <olsner> (in a related story: whenever someone has their faith in humanity restored, mine is torn asunder yet again)
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22:58:39 * shachaf tries to figure out how serious oerjan was.
22:59:42 <Sgeo> I think what happens when I switch languages is something like
23:00:46 <Sgeo> "I'm obviously looking for Smalltalk-like languages, why not just go Smalltalk.... <complaint X, complaint Y, complaint Z>... I'm obviously looking for a language that does W, why not G which is known for W
23:00:49 <Sgeo> Lather, rinse, repeat
23:01:03 <Sgeo> Either that or I avoid looking at G because of Q
23:01:24 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: do they have holes?
23:01:33 <Sgeo> Where Q may be a bad stereotype of the reason I last stoppe d at G, which was actually reason R
23:01:40 <olsner> pidgeons have holes, socks don't?
23:01:43 <Sgeo> Also, I am an alphabet.
23:02:11 <Bike> single-letter variable names are a blight sgeo
23:02:34 <Sgeo> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> why the fuc <oerjan> i was very annoyed. <Phantom_Hoover> k <Phantom_Hoover> are my socks <Phantom_Hoover> in the wastebin
23:02:37 <HackEgo> 935) <Phantom_Hoover> why the fuc <oerjan> i was very annoyed. <Phantom_Hoover> k <Phantom_Hoover> are my socks <Phantom_Hoover> in the wastebin
23:02:49 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
23:03:10 <Sgeo> oerjan, I am in love with Phantom_Hoover's inadvertant double meaning of k
23:03:30 <olsner> (this is where Sgeo meticulously reformats according to The Rules, then someone decides the quote isn't funny in the first place)
23:03:43 <shachaf> oerjan: So... No changing `welcome?
23:04:16 <Sgeo> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> why the fuc <oerjan> i was very annoyed. <Phantom_Hoover> k <Phantom_Hoover> are my socks <Phantom_Hoover> in the wastebin
23:04:19 <HackEgo> 935) <Phantom_Hoover> why the fuc <oerjan> i was very annoyed. <Phantom_Hoover> k <Phantom_Hoover> are my socks <Phantom_Hoover> in the wastebin
23:04:23 <Sgeo> Like that, or did I screw up?
23:04:45 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: A BLIGHT
23:04:48 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean seriously, why would you ever want more than 100 variables
23:05:04 <Sgeo> wastebin looked like it was cut off for a second
23:05:05 <Bike> ugh don't remind me of TI programming
23:05:26 <oerjan> shachaf: i suggest sitting very still and not moving. then _maybe_ you won't annoy me.
23:05:29 <Sgeo> Bike, ok, next time I shall use foo bar baz foobar foobaz barfoo barbaz etc
23:05:41 * oerjan just blew it, didn't he.
23:06:14 <kmc> don't leave :(
23:06:14 <Bike> Sgeo: damn straight
23:07:01 * Sgeo concurs with everyone whom it is possible to concur with even if said concurring implies holding contradictory beliefs about whether shachaf should leave
23:07:10 <oerjan> shachaf: i wasn't being entirely sreiosu in the two pervious sentiwtf is with my typing
23:07:27 <Bike> wow i can't spell that word reliably
23:07:29 <olsner> I was trying to scroll back to a shachaf ban motivation but found "* oerjan cackles maniackally"
23:07:48 <olsner> shachaf probably literally asked for it though
23:08:07 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: nuh uh it's cited. "21stC urban parlance speaks of 'a barometer of shallowness...the scale of superficiality'.[3]"
23:08:24 <shachaf> olsner: No, I stopped with the asking-to-be-kicked thing a while ago.
23:08:34 <olsner> maybe the effect was just delayed
23:08:38 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
23:09:14 <olsner> hmm, if this was only the implementation of the first of those request, you may yet be kicked many times
23:09:18 <oerjan> olsner: that was when i found sed's N command
23:09:19 <shachaf> olsner: The motivation was: <oerjan> <shachaf> `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/*
23:09:52 <Sgeo> How many uses of dal are there in wisdom?
23:10:09 <olsner> ah, yes, the cackling is a common side effect of sed
23:10:45 <HackEgo> Siberia is the capital of Finland. It's where the Fields Medal was first synthesised.
23:10:48 <olsner> Sgeo: all the welcome texts use it due to mentioning dalnet
23:11:22 <oerjan> Sgeo: the siberia one and the welcomes
23:11:40 <Sgeo> Hmm, wasn't aware that `welcome used wisdom behind the scenes
23:11:56 <Sgeo> `cat bin/wisdom
23:11:57 <HackEgo> cat: bin/wisdom: No such file or directory
23:12:06 <Sgeo> `cat bin/welcome
23:12:07 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
23:12:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdom: not found
23:12:19 <shachaf> See: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1339
23:12:39 <Bike> encoding is hard, huh
23:12:48 <HackEgo> See `? for further details.
23:13:18 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; }
23:14:15 <Sgeo> Are there sane people who write Perl code?
23:15:18 * shachaf wonders whether people will ever stop with the "ha ha perl = bad" thing.
23:15:19 <olsner> then again, not writing perl code doesn't necessarily make you sane
23:16:01 <Sgeo> wtf is ga[sz]pacho?
23:16:06 <HackEgo> Sgeo: "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
23:16:24 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
23:16:35 <olsner> apt quote for the channel, I feel
23:16:52 * Sgeo wonders which is more opaque, Perl or APL
23:16:58 <oerjan> Sgeo: a spanish soup, traditionally served cold for hot summer days
23:17:47 <Sgeo> Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restricted to normal (ascii?) characters, I guess
23:18:07 <shachaf> `learn gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days
23:18:23 <olsner> probably spelled gaszpaczo
23:18:25 <oerjan> `addquote <Sgeo> Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restricted to normal (ascii?) characters, I guess
23:18:28 <HackEgo> 936) <Sgeo> Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restricted to normal (ascii?) characters, I guess
23:18:29 -!- WeThePeople has joined.
23:19:48 <oerjan> `learn gazspacho is a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz
23:20:04 <olsner> or perhaps ch is almost equivalent in polish
23:20:30 <oerjan> `learn gazspaczo is a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz
23:20:37 <olsner> unless it's one of those weird cases where ch is a k sound
23:20:46 * Sgeo did not mean to refer to either gaspach or gazpach
23:21:37 <oerjan> `sed -i 's/is/iz/' wisdom/gazspaczo
23:21:38 <HackEgo> Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script-
23:21:41 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/is/iz/' wisdom/gazspaczo
23:22:17 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:22:44 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off!
23:23:34 <Sgeo> I'm almost certain that's a reference to something, but I'm not sure what
23:23:58 <olsner> `learn soup is like soup
23:24:00 <elliott> shachaf: its a joke. im making a humerous joke for kidding purposes.
23:24:02 <oerjan> `run echo "What soup, doc?" >wisdom/soup
23:24:10 <oerjan> `run echo "What soup, Doc?" >wisdom/soup
23:24:22 <shachaf> elliott: np "its wat im hear 4 rite"
23:24:43 <oerjan> olsner: SORRY OVERRULED YOU WITH FAMOUS REFERENCE
23:24:53 <Sgeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_Call_the_Whole_Thing_Off
23:29:28 <ion> Thanks to Mumble using a speech synthesizer for text chat, i realized “:P” is colon pee.
23:30:47 <olsner> (hopefully that will be all for tonight's installment of #esoteric-bodily-functions)
23:31:34 <oerjan> `run echo "A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit." >wisdom/szoup
23:31:49 <Sgeo> I can't see a channel name and not join it
23:32:01 <olsner> oerjan: has that translation been validated by all the eels in your hovercraft?
23:32:30 <Sgeo> * Topic for #include is: I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
23:32:44 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:33:25 <oerjan> olsner: no, just by hungarian wikipedia.
23:33:36 <Sgeo> * Topic for #include set by unknown at Thu May 29 15:24:17 2008
23:33:58 <Sgeo> -NickServ- Registered : Mar 08 14:58:34 2002 (10 years, 46 weeks, 3 days, 08:35:08 ago)
23:34:00 <Sgeo> -NickServ- Last seen : now
23:34:36 <elliott> ...what's whoah about this exactly
23:35:02 <Phantom_Hoover> "someone spent NEARLY ELEVEN YEARS DOING SOMETHING REGULARLY"
23:36:39 <olsner> oerjan: ok, must be correct then
23:37:10 <olsner> unless someone just went and made up a bunch of pretend-hungarian and put it on the hungarian wikipedia
23:38:20 <oerjan> i think it's even a quote, the original has quote marks
23:38:46 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: doing what regularly
23:40:40 <Sgeo> "An object is just something in a category."
23:40:51 <Sgeo> "something" needs to be elaborated on, clearly.
23:40:58 <olsner> "A something is just something in a something."
23:41:05 <elliott> objects are kind of the very nature of somethingness
23:42:20 <HackEgo> ais523 \ banach-tarski \ endomorphism \ esoteric \ finnish \ finns \ friendship \ gaspacho \ gaszpacho \ gazspacho \ gazspaczo \ haskell \ helsinki \ homestuck \ hom-set \ itidus19 \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lens \ lifthrasiir \ maths \ misspellings of croissant \ monads \ morphism \ natural transformation \ oceans \ olsner \ scotland \ sge
23:42:32 <HackEgo> Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. The official religion is hatheism. Phantom_Hoover looks after the FREEDOM.
23:42:43 <shachaf> `? misspellings of croissant
23:42:44 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:42:59 <olsner> `? misspellings of croissant
23:43:00 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:43:10 <olsner> same answer every time, how boring
23:43:54 <Sgeo> How have I failed to see my wisdom all this time?
23:43:57 <HackEgo> Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex.
23:44:10 <Bike> i hope you're suitably whelmed.
23:44:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:44:29 <HackEgo> Hom-sets are just sets of morphisms between two objects.
23:45:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
23:45:33 -!- copumpkin has joined.
23:45:39 <HackEgo> Spam is a delicious meat product. See http://www.spamjamhawaii.com/
23:45:51 <Sgeo> There is a Spam Jam. Why is there a Spam Jam.
23:46:51 <Sgeo> What's next, parties for other BRANDNAME PRODUCTYPE products?
23:47:11 <Bike> it is jam made from spam
23:47:18 <Sgeo> Wait, that implies that I think that Spam is a type of jma
23:47:44 <olsner> why do you think spam is jam?
23:48:15 <olsner> in poland some people's names start with szcz
23:48:41 <Sgeo> `? wisom isn't very liar paradoxy
23:48:41 <shachaf> `run >wisdom/cyberiad echo The Cyberiad is not just a book.
23:48:42 <HackEgo> wisom isn't very liar paradoxy? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:48:49 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry
23:48:51 <Sgeo> Not very liar paradoxy
23:50:22 <shachaf> `run >wisdom/'structural subtyping' echo Not to be confused with substructural typing.
23:50:30 <shachaf> `run >wisdom/'substructural typing' echo Not to be confused with structural subtyping.
23:50:57 <shachaf> `learn monoids are so easy :D
23:51:08 <HackEgo> Monoids are just categories with a single object.
23:51:28 <Sgeo> Easiness is so easy :D
23:51:54 <shachaf> `learn Monoids are the easy version of categories.
23:52:21 <oerjan> ...now i'm annoyed again.
23:52:36 <shachaf> Am I making wisdom/ worse?
23:52:47 <oerjan> shachaf: ...good point.
23:53:05 <shachaf> It wasn't meant to be a point, but OK.
23:53:25 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian.
23:53:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:54:11 <elliott> IMO we should just nuke all of wisdom/ except for the entries for places
23:54:51 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
23:56:56 <shachaf> `run echo dumb > wisdom/devious
23:58:57 <olsner> oh, is that what it means
23:59:34 <oerjan> elliott: a bit more of this and i'll start agreeing with you.