00:00:49 <olsner> yes, the abuse of wisdom has been heading overboardwards, of late
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00:01:24 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry
00:04:00 <oerjan> the temporariness of everything, including information, has become grating on me.
00:05:38 * pikhq despises the first week or two of math courses.
00:05:51 <pikhq> No, "theory of numbers", you *really* don't need to go over induction again.
00:06:38 <oerjan> so you are saying we don't need to go over induction for the n+1'th time if we've done it for the n'th time?
00:08:06 <elliott> oerjan: have you considered the temporariness of the letter ø
00:08:55 <oerjan> elliott: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
00:09:02 <Bike> temporariness?
00:09:12 <shachaf> `learn ø is not going anywhere
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00:30:04 <zzo38> Does SQLite support UTF-8 codes outside of the Unicode range?
00:32:48 <zzo38> Actually, can I even just store arbitrary bytes having the length function to not count 0x80-0xBF range bytes?
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01:05:25 <zzo38> I made the search function of Internet Quiz Engine to work now.
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01:33:10 <shachaf> kmc: It probably won't change even then.
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02:00:31 <kmc> this cross channel thing is confusing shachaf
02:00:42 <kmc> it would be less confusing with zephyr conventions
02:00:48 <kmc> where most people read all traffic in one window
02:00:57 <kmc> and where you have subject tags which could be "else" or "#mosh"
02:01:17 <zzo38> What are zephyr conventions? And what do the subject tags do?
02:01:53 <shachaf> kmc: Well, I don't talk in #mosh.
02:02:08 <shachaf> How can I connect to relevant Zephyr networks?
02:06:07 <kmc> you can't, basically
02:06:41 <kmc> get an athena account or maybe a club.cc.cmu.edu account or one of a few others
02:06:45 <kmc> yes because i have an athena account
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02:11:24 <kmc> helping with Mosh which is sort of a SIPB project
02:14:02 <Sgeo> What was that thing that I've done that kmc said was more obscure than Zephyr?
02:14:08 * Sgeo already forgot the name
02:14:22 <kmc> 4-HO-DiPT?
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02:20:13 <kmc> when did you use Gale?
02:20:50 <kmc> oddly, the Zephyr protocol is about as old as IRC, despite 'feeling' much fancier and newer
02:21:08 <kmc> i guess it goes to show that people in the 80's could design fancy systems too, but it's only the simple ones that have survived to today
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02:21:27 <kmc> Zephyr wants Kerberos and it wants no NAT and a daemon on every host and a bunch of other things
02:21:36 <kmc> it wasn't even designed as a human chat protocol
02:22:20 <shachaf> Nor was obby, but it's great for it!
02:28:59 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot
02:29:32 <Sgeo> kmc, I just remember finding it on Wikipedia and using some web interface to it that's now defunct
02:29:37 <Sgeo> Probably years ago
02:29:40 <Sgeo> Yammer I think?
02:30:07 <Bike> we're going to run out of synonyms at some point soon D:
02:30:31 <kmc> Yammer is an enterprise social network thing but maybe there's also a Gale thing of the same name
02:36:58 <copumpkin> kmc: how you enjoying twitter so far?
02:37:09 <kmc> 's pretty good
02:39:27 <kmc> have already found a lot of interesting links and it is a lot less unpleasant than reading Hacker News
02:39:35 <kmc> \rainbow{social networks}
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02:43:38 <kmc> it has enough cool stuff that I feel like I'm missing out by not reading it
02:43:51 <kmc> but it also has a lot of noise and a pretty steady rate of aggrivating bullshit
02:43:55 <Fiora> I've glanced at it lately looking for interesting things but it just seems to have this horrible signal/noise ratio
02:44:02 <Fiora> like even *slashdot* is better
02:44:15 <kmc> it's mostly about how some mobile social local ad company you've never heard of just got $100 million dollars for doing nothing
02:44:19 <Fiora> I think even my tumblr dashboard is better
02:44:40 <kmc> and endless arguments over who is a real hacker or not
02:44:53 <kmc> and paul graham hero-worship
02:45:14 <kmc> basically i count on my friends and extended social network to send me interesting links at at least the rate i can read them
02:45:36 <elliott> kmc: and you count on me to provide the noise you're missing out on
02:45:50 <Bike> is "real hacker" actually a thing
02:46:02 <ion> integer hacker
02:46:02 <kmc> copumpkin did you see the crypto challenges mentioned on twitter: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/292005256416612353
02:46:22 <Bike> man even xkcd's made fun of that though
02:46:26 <copumpkin> kmc: nope, but I assume that's some sort of job thing?
02:46:50 <Fiora> kmc: there's also like, all the navelgazing stuff
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02:46:54 <copumpkin> it'd be odd to do a "in your free time" project @matasano
02:47:02 <Fiora> like 1000 blog posts about "how to be productive" or "how I built an X in Y hours"
02:47:12 <kmc> like, I assume that if I solve them all, I will be able to get an interview there if I want
02:47:13 <Bike> "how to be productive" posts are sad
02:47:16 <kmc> but that's not why i'm doing it
02:47:22 <kmc> the Stripe CTFs are also a job thing in a sense
02:47:28 <kmc> but were plenty of fun
02:47:35 <Bike> maybe that's just because i'm violently unproductive.
02:47:41 <elliott> how do I gain the ability to tell matasano and monsanto apart
02:47:49 <kmc> elliott: drink a bottle of Round-Up
02:48:54 <Fiora> Bike: I always find them kinda funny because it's like
02:49:00 <copumpkin> daeken used to work at matasano iirc
02:49:02 <Fiora> someone is *blogging* (not being productive) about being productive
02:49:20 <kmc> that's not intrinsically absurd
02:49:28 <kmc> but yeah people wank a lot about productivity instead of being productive
02:49:42 <kmc> they also wank a lot about how programmers are magical special snowflakes and therefore can't be held to the same standards as other human beings
02:50:08 <Fiora> there's also just. the whole bubble mentality of how like, everyone inside silicon valley is so blissfully unaware a world exists outside
02:50:39 <Fiora> which probably hurts them a lot too, since it means the people making startups have no idea what their users are like at all, and guess based on Glee reruns
02:50:57 <Bike> that's a sad and disturbing thought.
02:51:11 <kmc> remember that just by being a programmer you are an expert in all areas
02:51:26 <kmc> you're automatically an expert on how painters work and can compare yourself favorably to them
02:51:35 <Bike> wank about singularity here
02:52:17 <Bike> complain about complaining about HN complaints about mainstream culture's complaints about HN?
02:52:24 <Fiora> recursively meta wank!
02:52:25 <copumpkin> Bike: can we tie the knot somehow?
02:52:34 <copumpkin> like, have them complain about us doing that
02:52:42 <copumpkin> then we should complain about how it's circular
02:52:53 <Fiora> (Oh, and of course, as unspokenly obvious as it is, HN's endless sexism)
02:52:55 <kmc> i don't live in SF therefore my opinion is so insignificant it's not worth complaining about
02:52:56 <Bike> my type theory isn't capable of expressing this
02:53:03 <copumpkin> and then plot to find new ways to make our complaining more elaborate
02:53:54 <copumpkin> has anyone tried the new portal 2 maps?
02:54:20 <Bike> was valve a startup at some point?
02:54:40 <copumpkin> presumably :P but I mean another startup made a custom campaign for portal 2
02:54:45 <copumpkin> presumably as part of recruitment efforts
02:54:55 * Bike didn't know that id started out selling fucking shareware, though. out of it
02:55:27 <Bike> (the mario clone was funnier though)
02:58:52 <Bike> they also tried making a mario port to PCs, it's great.
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02:59:48 <kmc> did anyone here play http://stabyourself.net/mari0/
03:00:16 <Bike> got bored fast, honestly, the old levels are way too easy
03:00:20 <Bike> copumpkin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUJ9xWw8_lQ
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03:15:15 <Lumpio-> copumpkin: Does Waluigi count?
03:15:51 <zzo38> OkCupid/HelloQuizzy and Internet Quiz Engine have *many* similarities (even that one is written in C++ and one in C). The quiz is the following: Which one do you think was based on the other one?
03:17:26 <Lumpio-> Why would anybody write something like that in C/++
03:17:53 <Bike> they've listened to people talking about php
03:18:00 <quintopia> zzo38: i doubt iqe is based on anything else :P
03:18:32 <zzo38> quintopia: Correct, but... that doesn't actually answer the question...
03:18:50 <zzo38> Lumpio-: Would you use different programming languages?
03:19:18 <zzo38> C is surely faster and more efficient than PHP.
03:19:21 <quintopia> zzo38: so you're asking whether okc or hq came first?
03:19:32 <quintopia> i couldnt guess, because i've never seen hq
03:19:38 <zzo38> quintopia: No. I am asking: "Which one do you think was based on the other one?"
03:20:05 <Lumpio-> Yes and if you're good at hand-optimizing, pure ASM is even more fast
03:20:06 <quintopia> zzo38: i doubt anything is based on iqe either
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03:20:38 <Bike> why is "asm" capitalized? is it an initialism i am unaware of
03:20:54 <zzo38> (Note that "OkCupid/HelloQuizzy" are both the same online quiz software.)
03:21:12 <Bike> and i think iqe was based on the other one.
03:21:39 <zzo38> It is a trick question! Neither was based on the other one!
03:21:46 <Bike> well played, sir.
03:22:16 <quintopia> zzo38: i didnt know okc and hq were the same
03:22:53 <zzo38> quintopia: Well, the quiz engine, the quiz database, all that is the same at least; even though the webpages are different, they both contain the same quizzes and everything.
03:22:54 <quintopia> but you can see that i said that iqe was neither based on them nor were they based on iqe, so that means i got it right!!!!
03:22:57 <zzo38> (I don't know why.)
03:23:08 <zzo38> quintopia: No, it means you did not get it wrong.
03:23:57 <quintopia> zzo38: there were no other possibilities once you ruled out the possibility that okc was based on hq or vice versa, so by process of elimination, i arrived at the right answer
03:24:34 <zzo38> In that case I must have misunderstood you, or vice versa.
03:25:08 <Bike> so, what's my prize?
03:25:36 <zzo38> There is no prize.
03:26:26 <Bike> what was the quiz for then?
03:26:30 <Bike> what is a quiz without a prize!
03:26:49 <zzo38> Many quiz don't have a prize, it doesn't necessarily need one.
03:27:15 <shachaf> kmc: Do you know a lot about making MD5 collisions?
03:27:31 <zzo38> The quizzes on OkCupid/HelloQuizzy, and the quizzes on Internet Quiz Engine, have no prize, and most others don't have prize either but I think some may have.
03:27:46 <kmc> third prize is you're fired
03:27:50 <zzo38> How common will be MD5 collisions if you don't try to make it deliberately?
03:27:55 <kmc> zzo38: very rare
03:28:48 <shachaf> kmc: GHC represents TypeRep keys as md5 hashes of the type name, roughly.
03:28:50 <zzo38> If you do make it deliberately, what is the chance to fit the format and be still a sensible file in general than the other ones?
03:29:06 <shachaf> Can you turn this into a SafeHaskell unsafeCoerce with DeriveTypeable?
03:29:24 <shachaf> You have a pretty limited alphabet.
03:31:42 <kmc> probably not
03:31:51 <kmc> how long are they?
03:32:06 <kmc> well that's a silly question
03:32:09 <kmc> how long can type names be?
03:32:11 <kmc> pretty long i guess
03:33:45 <kmc> zzo38: very good, for any A you can find X,Y such that md5(AX) = md5(AY)
03:34:26 <Bike> that's concatenation?
03:34:41 <kmc> which also means that md5(AXB) = md5(AYB) for any B, because MD5 uses the Merkle–Damgård construction
03:34:58 <kmc> you can find these pretty quickly... i was finding dozens of X,Y pairs per hour on my workstation
03:35:08 <shachaf> It doesn't *quite* mean that for any B, does it?
03:35:28 <kmc> sorry, all of these letters are multiples of an MD5 input block size
03:35:43 <shachaf> Ah. Maybe it works out then.
03:35:58 <shachaf> What it hashes it unwords [pkg, module, name] encoded in UCS-4, it looks like.
03:37:15 <kmc> anyway if your strings are programs, it's usually easy to construct things such that AXB does one arbitrary thing and AYB does a different arbitrary thing, even though you don't have much control over X,Y
03:37:29 <kmc> you just make that entire block one operand of a conditional or something
03:37:58 <kmc> so you can (for example) construct two Postscript documents which display completely differently, however you like, and have the same MD5 hash
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03:44:30 <kmc> shachaf: does every Linux syscall have at least one argument?
03:45:19 <Sgeo> help I'm addicted to Naruto
03:45:47 <pikhq> Sgeo: Have you considered watching good anime instead?
03:45:57 <pikhq> I mean, you're well below Dragonball here.
03:46:02 <kmc> pikhq: ah yes
03:46:21 <shachaf> I used getpid to benchmark syscalls the other day.
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03:46:33 <Sgeo> :/ how is Naruto bad?
03:46:33 <shachaf> glibc caches it, of course.
03:46:44 <pikhq> Well, it was getuid() instead, but eh. Existence proofs don't care about which example you use. :)
03:47:27 <Sgeo> I mean, it's not PMMM. I think. But that doesn't mean it's bad
03:47:42 <pikhq> Sgeo: In short, it's bland shōnen.
03:48:01 <Sgeo> I don't know what shōnen is.
03:48:26 <Sgeo> If I'm not used to it, what's wrong with it being my canonical example?
03:49:00 <Sgeo> Is Seinfeld unfunny?
03:49:18 <pikhq> You are saying something that's roughly equivalent to saying "I'm addicted to Two and a Half Men".
03:49:41 <Bike> isn't that more of a medical condition than a taste thing
03:49:51 <kmc> i watched a lot of that show but i'm not proud of it :(
03:50:28 <kmc> Seinfeld on the other hand is brilliant and is much better than most of its imitators
03:50:46 <shachaf> OK, it's just md5sum (encodeUCS4 (unwords [package, module, name]))
03:50:50 <Fiora> shonen is pretty much anything intended primarily for a ~8-18 year old male audience, though it is often designed with much wider appeal
03:50:51 <kmc> it's shockingly misanthropic for a network show
03:50:58 <Bike> seinfeld's original "airline food" routine is actually funny, it's awesome
03:51:07 <Fiora> like One Piece is technically shonen but it's popular among allthedemographics
03:51:18 <shachaf> So this ends up being making two type names which hash to the same thing, with a common prefix, under UCS-4 encoding.
03:51:46 <Sgeo> Well, I definitely see how it appeals to 8-18 year old men, although it's my gf who's getting me into it
03:52:14 <Fiora> the most stereotypical shonen is a coming-of-age story about a boy who wants to be the very best, like no one ever was
03:52:35 <madbr> and wants to catch them all? :D
03:52:50 <Fiora> to catch them is my reeaaal quest, to traiiin them iiiiis my cauuuuuuuse~
03:52:57 <Sgeo> I've never watched Pokemon
03:52:57 <kmc> ♫ POOOOO - KÉÉÉÉÉ - MONNNNN ♫ stuck in my head for the next 24h
03:53:04 <kmc> thanks Fiora
03:53:07 <Sgeo> ...and this is where pikhq slaps me
03:53:07 <pikhq> Sgeo: Incidently, what anime *have* you seen?
03:53:08 <Fiora> ITS A GOOD SONG OKAY
03:53:24 <kmc> i don't know about that
03:53:27 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXZ2bTigdGY watch more mature chinese cartoons
03:53:27 <Fiora> so Naruto, Bleach, and so on would be like that as well
03:53:29 <pikhq> Sgeo: Hey, don't worry. The Pokemon anime was actually very bad.
03:53:51 <Fiora> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfX0tIaExmM yay I'm 10 years old again
03:54:24 <Sgeo> pikhq, Death Note, Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Elfen Lied, Neon Genesis Evagelion (sp?), I forget but I think I've seen more than that
03:54:25 <madbr> not as good as ducktales woohoo but still pretty hot yes
03:54:47 <kmc> the pokémon theme is very similar to eye of the tiger and not as good
03:54:53 <kmc> woah, it has more verses?
03:55:02 <pikhq> I've not seen Evangelion, but Death Note and Mahou Shojo Madoka Magica were very good, and Elfen Lied was pretty alright.
03:55:04 <madbr> "holy shit this has chords... I thought they went out of style 10 years ago"
03:55:05 <Fiora> They usually cut down these things for TV OPs and stuff
03:55:28 <Sgeo> pikhq, I knew someone who despised Death Note
03:55:30 <madbr> kmc: similar to eye of the tiger? not convinced
03:55:32 <Sgeo> Lack of character development.
03:55:40 <pikhq> Strange, Death Note is pretty universally beloved.
03:55:56 <pikhq> The worst that could be said of it is it could be better.
03:56:04 <Fiora> the most negative I've seen about Death Note is that the final arc was a bit terrible because the publishers wanted him to drag out the series
03:56:12 <Fiora> but gosh even so it was still good
03:56:13 <pikhq> I also pretend the final arc didn't happen. :P
03:56:42 <Sgeo> pikhq, well, when I said on Facebook that I was watching Death Note, this person tried to spoil me (didn't work since I already read spoilers)
03:57:06 <Sgeo> And said "There, saved you <I forget how many> hours"
03:57:25 <Sgeo> Back to Naruto
03:57:26 <madbr> kmc: eye of the tiger doesn't have any vocal harmonization
03:57:35 <pikhq> I'm going to arbitrarily recommend Darker than Black: Kuro no Keiyakusha, as well as Baccano!. And also Fullmetal Alchemist, because seriously, you have to. It's a law or something. :P
03:57:58 <Sgeo> Oh that reminds me, I've seen Durarara
03:58:06 <pikhq> FMA isn't the best thing ever or anything, but it's kinda mandatory viewing.
03:58:13 <Fiora> I think my favorite series are probably um... Ghost in the Shell SAC, Madoka Magica, and Shugo Chara
03:58:17 <monqy> watch out it's the anime police
03:58:27 <pikhq> Not seen Shugo Chara.
03:58:29 <Fiora> which is kind of a jumble of very different things
03:58:36 <Bike> what are anime police
03:58:39 <monqy> hands up????? have you seen everything on the list
03:58:40 <pikhq> I think right now my absolute favorite still has to be Mushishi.
03:58:41 <Bike> are they pigs?
03:58:46 <Fiora> hard sci-fi, dark magical girls, and pure shoujo
03:58:54 <madbr> it's just dude singing + cool rhythm guitar + boring bass + drums + piano + guitar riff + tambourines
03:59:01 <madbr> (eye of the tiger)
03:59:11 <madbr> pokémon theme is definitely more complex
03:59:20 <Bike> do i need to break out the molotovs to fight the anime-prison-industrial system
03:59:54 <monqy> they'll culturally enrich you till you burst
04:00:07 <madbr> it has many more layers and instrumentation changes
04:00:13 <coppro> pokémon theme has three vocal parts; the lead, a tenor accompaniement in falsetto, and a chorus on the refrain
04:00:27 <elliott> `addquote <kmc> the pokémon theme is very similar to eye of the tiger and not as good
04:00:30 <HackEgo> 937) <kmc> the pokémon theme is very similar to eye of the tiger and not as good
04:00:50 <madbr> coppro: but the chorus is actually multiple parts
04:01:08 <coppro> madbr: I don't believe it is
04:01:20 <madbr> hard to tell on the fly but this has like major chords and stuff
04:01:26 <madbr> so it has to be at least 3 parts
04:01:31 <Sgeo> Technically, Homestuck is partly coming-of-age stories, I guess
04:01:43 <elliott> kmc: have you seen the ron paul version of the pokemon theme (made by the singer of the original)
04:01:52 <elliott> kmc: exactly what it sounds like
04:01:57 <Sgeo> ...then again, (forall g in genras: Homestuck is partly g)
04:02:04 <elliott> the lyrics don't even make any sense in the context of ron paul
04:02:10 <coppro> madbr: lafsjdlfskjadlf now I'm listening to it again
04:02:10 <Fiora> Yeah, homestuck's pretty shonen.
04:02:23 <Bike> i wanna be, the very best, like no-one ever taxed
04:02:26 <Bike> nah that sucks
04:02:30 <pikhq> Sgeo: Also, nice thing with most anime that's not long-running shonen? It's short.
04:02:35 <pikhq> Most anime is a single season.
04:02:37 <kmc> elliott: what
04:02:44 <elliott> kmc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVjfa0Alz5o
04:02:58 <elliott> kmc: i swear to god this is a version of the pokemon theme with the lyrics slightly changed to relate to ron paul instead of pokemon mostly
04:03:04 <elliott> by the same person who sang the original
04:03:05 <kmc> 'The Pokemon theme is a perfect song for the Ron Paul Revolution, as he racks up the delegates'
04:03:15 <kmc> what the fuck
04:03:16 <Sgeo> pikhq, Homestuck isn't short either
04:03:20 <Fiora> even a lot of stuff that's longer-running has to get renewed each season, and gets a new arc or something
04:03:26 <madbr> I think the guitar is at least 2 parts in pokémon too
04:03:26 <Bike> gonna train them delegates
04:03:38 <madbr> like, one panned center, one panned to the right
04:03:41 <elliott> i love how literally the only thing they changed about the chorus was s/pokemon/ron paul/
04:03:44 <coppro> madbr: nah, the chorus only sings "pokemon", "gotta catch em all", and "ooooooo"
04:03:45 <elliott> i forgot how amazing this is
04:03:49 <Sgeo> Fiora, I do admit I prefer over-arching... arcs
04:03:55 <Sgeo> Or at least, I think I'd prefer them
04:04:01 <Sgeo> I should finish DS9 at some point
04:04:11 <madbr> coppro: on at least 3 different notes
04:04:20 <madbr> that's at least 3 different singers
04:04:24 <Bike> i guess it's nice that the singer can still sing in the same register and all
04:04:25 <coppro> madbr: hmm... the oooos maybe
04:04:35 <Bike> wow 3000 people in houston
04:04:55 <madbr> the chorus also sings "in a world we must defend"
04:05:03 <Fiora> I guess a good example would be Sailor Moon, Sailor Moon R, Sailor Moon S, Sailor Moon Super S, Sailor Stars...
04:05:20 <madbr> there's at least 3 layers of keyboards
04:05:21 <coppro> madbr: yeah, good catch
04:05:35 <Fiora> whereas naruto is like. neverending. ever
04:05:46 <coppro> the chorus is at least three singers, but it's not clear enough to make out chords
04:05:53 <madbr> (piano, strings, brassy synth pads?!?, arpeggio plucks)
04:05:55 <kmc> ron paul :psyduck:
04:06:06 <Bike> why is the first time i've seen music people in this channel for the pokemon theme.
04:06:06 <Sgeo> Fiora, my gf says things like she thinks it might be ending soon
04:06:16 <Fiora> well, the first 'season' ended after
04:06:27 <Fiora> but it's true, they do end! bleach ended after 366
04:06:40 <Sgeo> She may be partly referring to the manga, I think she consumes both
04:06:40 <pikhq> Bike: That's because you've not been around at other times music came up.
04:06:42 <madbr> bike: because someone said it was like a worse version of eye of the tiger :3
04:06:54 <Sgeo> (using "consume" as a general word for reading and watching)
04:07:16 <coppro> we don't talk about theatre enough here
04:07:19 <madbr> well done cartoon themes are usually very, very good songs
04:07:20 <coppro> we should talk about theatre more
04:07:26 <Bike> nice. all i do is listen to techno and dream
04:07:27 <madbr> and when you take it appart it shows
04:07:36 <Sgeo> madbr, how about the Stargate Infinity theme?
04:07:38 <madbr> they look simple but they aren't
04:08:10 <Sgeo> (Note: My statement should not be construed as endorsing the Stargate Infinity theme as "good")
04:08:14 <Fiora> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIVgSuuUTwQ I still like how ghost in the shell's theme was in russian
04:08:25 <coppro> my favourite songs to sing are definitely Broadway songs though
04:08:26 <Bike> well the singer's russian.
04:08:56 <madbr> sgeo : the rip I have on youtube isn't too good
04:09:03 <Bike> still love that radiohead did an anime theme song once
04:09:10 <Fiora> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-PkAQcuZOw oh now Lain's is stuck in my head
04:09:19 <Sgeo> I should watch Ghost In The Shell. I think?
04:09:19 <madbr> sgeo: it's not too bad but it's no ear worm
04:09:33 <pikhq> Sgeo: Yeah, Ghost in the Shell: SAC is good.
04:09:39 <Fiora> Sgeo: SAC is amazing
04:09:40 <Bike> Sgeo: it's pretty cool
04:09:43 <pikhq> Speaking of, I need to finish 2nd Gig.
04:09:45 <Fiora> Stand Alone Complex, the TV series
04:09:55 <Fiora> (and a sequel film)
04:10:13 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnkD0vAMSJ0 boa's a pretty cool band.
04:10:14 <Fiora> it's just... it's really a wonderful series
04:10:26 <Bike> I don't know why this song is on a Lain EP, but whatever.
04:10:31 <pikhq> (I spent the winter break on an anime binge with my girlfriend, that's one that didn't quite finish.)
04:11:00 <Fiora> I could fangirl endlessly about SAC but I don't want to be rambly
04:11:10 <Sgeo> Back to watching Naruto
04:11:19 <pikhq> I'll just say it's cyberpunk done well and leave it at that.
04:11:32 <monqy> imo make a `list but instead of for some lame webcomic it's when sgeo watches naruto
04:11:37 <monqy> what the world really wants to know
04:11:49 <madbr> and music discussion is already over
04:14:43 <madbr> that's the best thing about western music... the harmony and layering
04:15:02 <Bike> i was pretty disappointed when i found out how western polyphony apparently is
04:15:22 <Bike> wanted to find some carnatic dubstep or w/e
04:15:59 <madbr> it's not totally exclusive to europe, but that's definitely where it's the most developed yeah
04:16:21 <madbr> probably to compensate for being so weak rhythm wise :D
04:16:49 <madbr> but yeah africans have some polyphony too I think
04:17:11 <Bike> i remember hearing that the european orchestral tradition is basically taken from the andalus, and i've found a bit of andalusian music i liked
04:17:16 <madbr> and the asian Sho/Sheng is usually played in chords I think
04:18:36 <Bike> i haven't tried much traditional chinese music, honestly, and only a bit of japanese because my guitarist friend is such a japanophile
04:19:58 <madbr> I think georgian music also has polyphony
04:20:08 <madbr> but that's probably because it's close enough to europe
04:20:17 <Bike> we went to a place in portland once that had a shamisen player, that was pretty boss
04:20:26 <Bike> thing has like forty strings, man.
04:20:35 <Bike> (but, monophonic)
04:20:59 <Bike> oh apparently "shamisen" means "three strings", wow i'm bad at this.
04:21:15 <madbr> one my chinese teacher brought a zhang... not all that hard to play actually
04:21:41 <madbr> but you can either play outside of the pentatonic scale, or play polyphonically
04:21:48 <madbr> but not both at the same time
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04:21:53 <Bike> that's bizarre.
04:21:56 <pikhq> Bike: To be fair, that's hard to know.
04:22:12 <pikhq> "Shamisen" is a very very strange reading.
04:22:15 <Bike> pikhq: well, i could have paid more attention to the performer...
04:22:28 <Bike> this was an event in a museum, they were passing out recordings and info on it.
04:22:32 <pikhq> 三味線 would normally be read something like "sanmisen".
04:23:06 <coppro> the double bass is the best instrument
04:23:21 <coppro> (it isn't, but it's pretty sweet all the same)
04:23:31 <Bike> I don't suppose anyone knows of a Japanese musical instrument with more than three strings, which is played in a sitting position on the ground (not like a guitar)
04:23:44 <madbr> bike: you mean a koto?
04:24:09 <Bike> yes, that was it!
04:24:22 <Bike> So, uh. That was cool, even if I have the attention span of a fly.
04:24:24 <madbr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6ALjvjmjHg
04:24:37 <madbr> yeah actually the zheng was a lot like that
04:25:04 <Bike> It was part of an exhibition of woodcuts, they had the whole "traditional" theme going.
04:25:34 <Bike> though i don't think they went as far as having the performer wear a kimono.
04:25:57 <madbr> yeah european music had instruments like that... they're mostly dead, killed by the piano
04:26:08 <Bike> harp too obvious?
04:26:31 <madbr> harp is different enough I think
04:26:49 <Bike> how so? lots of strings, right?
04:27:03 <madbr> yeah but the sound is very different
04:27:33 <Bike> because it's on air instead of a board, right
04:27:43 <madbr> because the strings are plucked
04:28:49 <madbr> glissandos are also a lot easier on harps
04:29:02 <madbr> yeah, on a piano, each note has 3 strings
04:29:12 <coppro> Bike: In a piano, strings are set two or three to a note
04:30:23 <Bike> I meant harps as a thing that is like a koto and mostly dead because of pianos.
04:31:38 <shachaf> Oh, maybe copumpkin is an expert in MD5 collisions.
04:32:32 <shachaf> Uh oh. Did copumpkin become Russian?
04:32:50 <copumpkin> no, someone just poked my eyes out (
04:32:55 <madbr> bike: but not as dead as harpsichords
04:33:07 <Bike> RIP harpsichords :(
04:33:18 <Bike> i thought they were keyed like pianos though
04:33:18 <coppro> harps are tonally quite different from the piano
04:33:29 <coppro> harps or harpsichords?
04:33:31 <madbr> and less dead than psalterions and clavicords
04:33:37 <shachaf> coppro: Sure, but no one plays harpsy chords anymore.
04:33:44 <Bike> god, i know shit about music
04:33:47 <coppro> celestes aren't quite dead
04:33:56 <shachaf> Bike: I know less than you, so ha!
04:34:06 <shachaf> Except I know that "octave" means "bit".
04:34:10 <Bike> i know a guy in another channel who did historical harpsichord playing for a while, pretty cool to listen to him
04:34:17 <madbr> it's like electric bass vs acoustic bass vs tuba fighting for the bass
04:34:45 <madbr> vs potentially cello and bassoon too if you want to be inclusive
04:34:52 <madbr> and electric bass is winning
04:34:59 <madbr> and tuba is going out of style
04:37:05 <coppro> madbr: acoustic bass guitar or upright bass?
04:37:28 <madbr> I was thinking of upright
04:38:04 <coppro> electric bass really isn't comparable, since in modern music there is a huge distinction between acoustic and electric instruments
04:38:27 <coppro> the tuba is going out of style because of its lack of versatility---precisely what killed many other keyboard instruments
04:39:00 <madbr> coppro: lack of versatility?
04:40:04 <kmc> russians use parentheses?
04:40:17 <madbr> it's slow compared to the electric bass
04:40:26 <coppro> sure, but electric instruments don't count
04:40:33 <madbr> except it's AFAIK still faster than the trombone
04:41:18 <coppro> I meant for rapid notes. You're moving a shitton of air through a tuba
04:41:30 <madbr> yeah but it does have valves
04:41:33 <madbr> instead of a slide
04:41:35 <coppro> yeah, so it can pitch quicker
04:41:55 <coppro> also a tuba playing at maximum volume is quite a thing
04:42:02 <coppro> *that* is something it is good at
04:42:23 <madbr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-NVMsj6lXA
04:43:04 <madbr> bass trombone is louder actually
04:43:24 <madbr> coppro: still not as loud as electric bass tho
04:43:31 <coppro> madbr: sure, if you crank the volume
04:43:40 <coppro> but if you hook a tuba up to a sound system you can make it as loud as you want too
04:44:04 <Bike> can i interject to request electric tuba music
04:44:10 <Bike> i've liked the electric trumpet i've heard
04:45:22 <coppro> Bike: is it an actual instrument or just synthesized?
04:45:32 <Bike> actual, you just put pickups in the horn
04:45:32 <coppro> madbr: yeah flight of the bumblebees is sweet
04:45:55 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCRI1Kf6Bk
04:47:40 <madbr> another case is oboe and bassoon being replaced by saxophonese in pop
04:50:29 <coppro> madbr: yeah, but pop is not all of modern music
04:51:00 <coppro> (incidentally, the most depressing thing in modern music is people who think mixing drum kits and orchestras is a good idea)
04:55:13 <madbr> well, I mean oboe and basson being replaced in "everything except classical"
04:55:43 <madbr> (classical in the broad meaning, yes I know it's not the same thing as baroque or romantic technically)
04:56:58 <madbr> tbh I'm not opposed to mixing drums and orchestras
04:57:35 <madbr> it kinda turns the orchestra into a large jazz band but there's tons of good 70s movie music done on that kind of ensemble
04:57:56 <coppro> my issue is more that drummers don't learn to play quiet
04:59:17 <madbr> that's because they play too much with electric guitarists
04:59:48 <madbr> which have big heads and their instrument has super large spectrum that buries everybody else
05:00:18 <coppro> but the pedaled instruments in drum kits also can't play quietly
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05:00:58 <madbr> you mean the kick drum
05:01:36 <coppro> and the hi-hat, but that's less obnoxious
05:01:40 <madbr> dunno, jazz drummers can do it
05:02:01 <madbr> the hihat is replaceable by a tambourine or triangle
05:02:16 <madbr> or a snare played with brushes
05:02:45 <coppro> sure, but that's all too complicated for a drummer :P
05:02:56 <coppro> (unlike percussionists, who are the most hilarious group in any orchestra)
05:03:03 <madbr> he's playing with an orchestra
05:03:24 <madbr> you don't get joe metal drummer for playing with a zillion violins, you get a good one :D
05:04:07 <coppro> sadly, that is not my experience
05:04:52 <coppro> drum kits (and the bad drummers that accomapny them) seem to follow around hollywood conductors
05:05:03 <coppro> *follow hollywood conductors around
05:05:08 <coppro> (also fuck those guys, they're too full of themselves)
05:05:13 <madbr> you can probably add more padding to the kick
05:05:24 <madbr> or just give him less juice in the mix :o
05:05:37 <coppro> this is an *orchestra*
05:06:08 <madbr> no close mics on the drum? :o
05:06:46 <coppro> they are loud enough without a sound system, thank you
05:07:03 <madbr> if you take metal drummers, yeah
05:08:02 <coppro> oh and the drown out the other players in the orchestra so they can't hear what they're doing
05:08:40 <madbr> you could take away their sticks
05:08:44 <madbr> and give them brushes
05:09:18 <coppro> so some brilliant hollywood conductors (and I've seen this multiple times *this year*) get the idea of shoving *all* the strings off to one side, *all* the woodwinds to the other, stuff the brass in the back mostly by the woodwinds because there's more room, and then stick the drums *in the middle* with sound barriers in between so that the strings can hear each other, as can the woodwinds
05:09:27 <coppro> problem: if you're sat to the side, GOOD LUCK HEARING THE VIOLINS
05:11:02 <coppro> because there are two layers of sound barrier and a drum kit in between me and the strings
05:12:11 <coppro> personally, I'd rather just stick with the percussionists
05:12:18 <coppro> they're better at producing varied sounds, and funnier
05:13:35 <madbr> though they can't quite get the energy of the kick + snare duo
05:14:33 <coppro> you can accent with brass for that
05:15:05 <madbr> brass is awesome but there's just something unique to the kick+snare
05:15:55 <madbr> imho they're more complementary actually
05:16:16 <coppro> that's true, I suppose
05:16:41 <coppro> but no reason you can't give the percussionists a bass drum
05:16:54 <coppro> if you really want to tie two up to get that effect
05:17:35 <madbr> isn't orchestral bass drum something totally different?
05:17:43 <madbr> with like super long decay
05:19:04 <coppro> they're different, but the score could easily specify "a small bass drum" or something
05:19:14 <coppro> you can do all sorts of shit with percussion
05:19:38 <coppro> oh, and as for why percussionists are funny: they have to ensure they get their instruments to the right people at the right time
05:19:43 <madbr> what if you had one of the percussionists play the drums instead of the rock drummer? :D
05:20:19 <coppro> I've seen a percussionist reaching over a table to get the triangle another one was frantically passing him like a bar before he came in
05:20:27 <coppro> he only barely made it
05:21:18 <madbr> tbh drums work better with synths
05:23:03 <madbr> like, it's very hard to make something like beethoven work on the NES's sound chip
05:23:11 <madbr> because your tones are so static
05:23:33 <madbr> you're almost forced to put in deep bass and smashing drums
05:25:08 <coppro> but beethoven also requires incredible dynamic range
05:25:23 <coppro> most speaker sets can't come even close
05:26:20 <pikhq> 90db is a shit-ton of dynamic range to expect from a speaker set. :)
05:26:23 <madbr> like, the one time I did a 5th symphony beethoven cover, I had to use all the "cheat" extra chips just to get more channels and cheating FM synth chip that was used in one japanese NES game
05:26:45 <madbr> and double up pretty much every note with another detuned channel
05:26:51 <madbr> otherwise it was just too shrill
05:27:29 <madbr> coppro: I'm not sure dynamic range is the problem actually
05:28:09 <coppro> the cellos/bass should properly be barely audible when they introduce the ode to joy
05:28:42 <coppro> and in the same movement as a enourmous choir singing at full volume.
05:29:41 <coppro> have you ever had the good fortune to attend a performance of the 9th? it's incredible
05:31:31 <madbr> but when dealing with synths, you have to deal with the "static" aspect of the tone
05:31:38 <madbr> which is an even bigger problem imho
05:32:14 <coppro> don't use small numbers of channels :P
05:32:38 <madbr> like, if you sequence repeated notes on strings on a synth, it sounds super stupid
05:32:43 <madbr> because each note is the same
05:33:17 <zzo38> You must mean VRC7 sound for FM synth used in Famicom, it was only one game
05:33:42 <Bike> don't good synths deal with that better
05:33:58 <zzo38> I have made a .NES ROM image which uses the VRC7 mapper, but it is only for testing the sounds so that I can figure out the sound
05:34:12 <madbr> bike: normally the dude that sequences it will vary the volume and timing of the notes
05:34:31 <madbr> and if he's using a large VST orchestra sound bank it might have round robin samples too
05:35:33 <Sgeo> Ok, episode 5 of Naruto had some.... rather predictable moments
05:35:42 <Sgeo> Let no one call any of the characters Genre Savvy
05:38:07 <zzo38> I have made some music using CsoundMML now too, so it isn't only NSF.
05:38:32 <madbr> tbh vrc7 isn't that interesting
05:38:38 <madbr> it's a cut down opl2
05:38:54 <zzo38> It is a variant of OPLL actually.
05:39:12 <madbr> it's a variant of opll which is a cut down opl2 :D
05:39:38 <zzo38> I have used VRC6, VRC7, Namco-163, and MMC5, even multiples ones together, I have not used the others
05:40:03 <zzo38> You can make the custom instrument to make a sine wave in VRC7 though if you want an extra sine wave.
05:40:12 <madbr> opl3 is the sound chip that has the most "potential undiscovered sonic territory" imho
05:40:39 <madbr> since there's so little music that uses some of the features they put it
05:40:55 <kmc> the little sound chip that could
05:41:14 <madbr> zzo: vrc7 can do more interesting things than sine
05:41:37 <zzo38> madbr: Yes, I know, it can do other things, just that a sine wave is the simplest possibility, so it is one thing
05:41:49 <zzo38> Is there the program that will play OPL3 musics? Do you know if XPMCK is compatible with it?
05:42:20 <madbr> there's an inaccurate winamp plugin I think
05:42:42 <kmc> dosbox's emulation is supposed to be pretty good
05:42:57 <madbr> kmc: I think it has improved
05:43:05 <zzo38> Can dosbox play OPL3 or only OPL2?
05:43:10 <kmc> OPL3 i believe
05:43:36 <madbr> like, the 2op patches are pretty close
05:43:36 <zzo38> Then I suppose it can be made a DOS program which plays it, would work!
05:43:42 <madbr> not spot on but not very far
05:44:17 <kmc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hPVwjZ6bNM this person thinks the emulation is not so good
05:44:20 <madbr> zzo: there's a messed up win9x driver that lets you override the MIDI patches I think
05:44:22 <zzo38> I have requested a feature for a NSF player to read VRC7 instruments from a NSFe chunk, but they didn't want that.
05:44:56 <zzo38> madbr: I could just use DOS it is no problem. I don't want to override the MIDI patches anyways
05:45:44 <madbr> I use adlib tracker 2 which lets you use pretty much all the features
05:46:36 <madbr> including manipulating the synth registers at like 800hz :D
05:46:38 <zzo38> I just wondered if XPMCK supports it, but I don't think so.
05:47:24 <madbr> that kind of tools tend to support japanese stuff
05:47:32 <madbr> since occidentals use trackers
05:48:42 <zzo38> Do you know if there is a Csound file to emulate OPL3?
05:49:11 <madbr> I have the real thing so no need to
05:49:28 <zzo38> (There are a few different programs to compose music for Csound, or you can just enter the events directly. I myself use CsoundMML (which I wrote), although I have written only one music with it so far)
05:50:07 <zzo38> I don't think I have OPL3 hardware in my computer though, so I have to use emulator. But if DOSBox can emulate it then I could use it with DOS.
05:52:55 <madbr> tbh all that stuff tends to have a not-so-interesting effort-to-result ratio
05:53:05 <zzo38> I think the most popular program to compose music with Csound is called Blue. I have tried it once but find it extremely complicated to use, so I made CsoundMML to work it much better.
05:53:48 <zzo38> Even so with Csound you can make it to do different things with the same score file by using different orchestra files.
05:55:09 <zzo38> And, I have made a plugin in Csound to load S3M sample packs and Famicom DPCM samples.
05:55:14 <madbr> if it shortens the feedback loop time (the time before you hear what you're making) then it's totally worth it
05:55:38 <madbr> zzo: can't you already load, like, SF2?
05:56:18 <zzo38> madbr: Yes, Csound can already load SF2, but now I added the command to load S3M as well.
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05:57:16 <zzo38> ADPCM packing is not supported but I don't know how that works so I did not program that in.
05:58:51 <madbr> you should look up the .WAV format specs, it supports 1 or 2 varieties of ADPCM
05:59:55 <zzo38> I have also implemented the Csound plugin for PADsynth, which works by adding up some bell curves to make the amplitude table, putting random values in the phase table, and then inverse Fourier transform. It is as simple as that.
06:01:01 <madbr> you can get the same result by stacking a bunch of saws
06:01:52 <madbr> or passing noise through 2 or 3 slightly detuned comb filters
06:18:48 <madbr> zzo: has any interesting physical modeling come out of csound?
06:24:35 <madbr> It's kindof the field I like tracking in synthesis and I haven't seen much interesting stuff in the field lately
06:34:04 <kmc> apparently crossdressing is part of the mating strategy for some cuttlefish
06:34:24 <Bike> lots of fish do it, don't they?
06:34:25 <kmc> the smaller males will disguise themselves as females and use this to get close to an actual female
06:34:50 <kmc> then when the big aggressive males get distracted with fighting each other, the crossdressing male gets to mate
06:35:31 <Bike> I think whoever does Scandinavia and the World did some comics about mating strategies like that... either in fish or in birds, I don't remember.
06:35:33 <Fiora> I love that nice little chart of a bunch of animals that use extremely non-heteronormative mating techniques, change genders, and other sorts of cool things
06:36:09 <Fiora> http://humon.deviantart.com/#/d4vlen4
06:37:04 <Fiora> I love, um. Tales games?
06:37:17 <Bike> Oh, yep, there's cuttlefish.
06:37:19 <shachaf> Like _Tales of Monkey Island_?
06:37:36 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_(series)
06:37:45 <Fiora> cuttlefish are kind of wonderful
06:37:48 <Bike> http://humon.deviantart.com/art/Sneaky-Cuttlefish-293754048 flasher cuttlefish
06:38:09 <shachaf> Bike: I bet you're an expert in MD5 collisions?
06:38:24 <shachaf> It looks like the thing I want is tricky.
06:38:30 <Bike> I did my triple doctoral thesisin md5 collisions!
06:38:52 <Sgeo> I'm an expert on claiming to be an expert about how to claim to be an expert.
06:38:56 <shachaf> Can I make one with a UCS-4 encoded string?
06:39:12 <shachaf> In particular it has to be made up of alphanumeric Unicode codepoints, in fact. :-(
06:39:40 <kmc> that seems pretty severe
06:39:45 <Bike> you have to tell me what amazing Safe Haskell environment you're breaking into, first.
06:39:46 <kmc> although perhaps most assigned codepoints are alphanumeric
06:40:06 <shachaf> There are only 21 bits of "valid" codepoints, though.
06:40:31 <shachaf> > generalCategory '\1000000'
06:40:43 <shachaf> I bet GHC doesn't like PrivateUse in identifiers.
06:40:58 <kmc> what you use private use characters for is your own business!
06:41:13 <shachaf> > generalCategory '\800000'
06:42:04 <fizzie> It's not even full 21 bits, it's more like...
06:42:05 <fizzie> > logBase 2 (17*65536)
06:42:22 <shachaf> So every fourth byte will be 0 straight off.
06:45:47 <Sgeo> TV Tropes claims that the Naruto anime has 85 consecutive filler episodes
06:45:52 <Sgeo> And I thought Endless Eight was bad
06:46:10 <Sgeo> (Although I guess filler isn't generally as bad as repeat episodes)
06:46:28 <Sgeo> (Also, I never actually watched more than ... 3 or 4 episodes of Endless Eight)
06:46:48 <Sgeo> Which reminds me, I left Suzumiya Haruhi off the list of anime I've watched
06:48:56 <pikhq> I watched Endless Eight at 4x speed.
06:49:04 <pikhq> When you do this it's actually tolerable.
06:49:35 <Bike> that's the thing where they did the same episode eight times?
06:52:02 <Bike> people actually watched that?
06:52:03 <Sgeo> Review I just saw of Naruto said that the plot was cliche and it's just the characters that make it interesting
06:52:10 <Sgeo> I prefer plot over characters
06:52:32 <Sgeo> Bike, when it first came out, people never knew if the next episode would be the one to break the cycle, I think
06:53:27 <Deewiant> Sgeo: Well, the episodes were called "Endless Eight" so after the first two or three I think it was rather obvious
06:54:23 <pikhq> Deewiant: In the light novel it was a somewhat short chapter.
06:55:15 <Sgeo> One of them, I think the fourth, had a strong airplane motif
06:55:23 <Sgeo> That ended up being irrelevant
06:55:36 <pikhq> But yeah, on 4x it was entertaining.
06:55:44 <pikhq> Silly voices had a lot to do with it, mind.
06:55:52 <pikhq> Also, on 4x it was 2 episodes' worth.
06:56:12 <Sgeo> I remember seeing a post that was made while it was still going on, suggesting to suggest to future viewers to just watch first two than "hint" (which turned out to be red herring) then last
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07:37:26 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot
07:54:24 <Sgeo> Endless Eight is really only the same episode repeated 7 times, plus the episode at the beginning
07:55:32 <Bike> oh, well, that's alright then
07:56:58 <Sgeo> I should probably order pizza tomorrow
07:57:04 <Sgeo> Haven't been eating enough protein lately
07:59:17 <Bike> http://chainsawsuit.com/comics/20120906.png
08:00:54 <Sgeo> That sounds delicious. Especially because there's no actual pepperoni
08:02:07 <Bike> I suppose you think the cantor set doesn't contain any actual points, either!!
08:03:23 <kmc> http://www.theonion.com/articles/pizza-huts-new-pizza-lovers-pizza-topped-with-smal,9891/
08:04:05 <Fiora> kmc: why is the onion so wonderufl
08:07:17 <shachaf> http://www.theonion.com/articles/existentialist-firefighter-delays-3-deaths,17500/
08:11:19 <shachaf> Hmm, I hadn't seen http://www.theonion.com/articles/white-house-jester-beheaded-for-making-fun-of-soar,17495/
08:12:02 <Bike> Obama, a wit in his own right, warned that any guest who further tested his patience would 'be heading' for trouble.
08:15:11 <fizzie> Sssss, two more HTML-only emails today. They're getting more and more common. :/
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09:08:57 <zzo38> madbr: Csound does have many commands for physical modeling; look at the documentation.
09:11:42 <zzo38> fizzie: Auto-reply to them.
09:18:15 <Deewiant> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/shibboleth-users/EjvS2Cgio6c
09:19:18 <Bike> wow, google translate was pretty bad in 2010
09:19:28 -!- Deewiant has set topic: FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE | concealed in fold of goat-time lumber | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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09:45:26 <zzo38> I have the idea of stereo Famicom register, using the unused $4009 register to control the stereo.
09:46:12 <zzo38> bit7 = output internal square waves to left channel. bit6 = output internal triangle/noise/DPCM to left channel. bit5 = output internal square waves to right channel. bit4 = output internal triangle/noise/DPCM to right channel. bit3 = output internal square waves to cartridge. bit2 = output internal triangle/noise/DPCM to cartridge. bit1 = output cartridge audio to left channel. bit0 = output cartridge audio to right channel.
09:50:40 <zzo38> I don't think the NSF specifications prohibit writing to $4009, so you could make stereo NSF which still plays in mono as well.
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11:07:35 <frecz11642> Something strange happened with me 2 times in the near past
11:08:03 <frecz11642> i would like to ask you guys how it is possible
11:08:17 <frecz11642> the thing is that i dreamed pictures of my near future
11:08:18 <HackEgo> frecz11642: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
11:08:28 <frecz11642> i checked every possibility and i had to realize that i really dreamed my future
11:08:54 <shachaf> `run welcome frecz11642 | sed s/dal/dahl/
11:08:56 <HackEgo> frecz11642: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dahl.net.)
11:10:26 <frecz11642> sorry for my english as i'm not a native speaker or writer in this case
11:12:48 <fizzie> shachaf: The word "incorrigible" comes to mind, somehow.
11:13:05 <shachaf> fizzie: I hope oerjan doesn't kick me again.
11:13:12 <shachaf> I didn't make any permanent changes.
11:15:08 <Deewiant> frecz11642: If your dream concerned something relatively expected, I doubt that that's unusual. Otherwise, if that future already happened to you and you realized afterwards, it was probably déjà vu with some confirmation bias. If it was about something unexpected that hasn't happened yet, you're probably simply wrong. In any case, this isn't an appropriate channel (or network) for such discussions: you
11:15:10 <Deewiant> may want to visit #esoteric on irc.dal.net instead.
11:15:39 <shachaf> This person actually wanted irc.dal.net, didn't they. :-(
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11:17:51 <fizzie> Deewiant: You're such a regular quadrilateral.
11:18:15 <Deewiant> fizzie: I'm a diamond in the rough.
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12:03:59 <Jafet> `run welcome | sed s/dal/dali/
12:04:01 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dali.net.)
12:11:35 <fizzie> `run welcome | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])\b/$1h$2/g'
12:11:36 <HackEgo> Welcome to the internationahl huhb fohr esoterihc programming language design and deployment! Fohr more informatiohn, check ouht ouhr wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Fohr the othehr kind of esoterica, try #esoterihc ohn irc.dahl.neht.)
12:12:37 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
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12:13:03 <Bacta> Is Brainfuck enterprise ready?
12:13:29 <oerjan> only with the PSOX framework hth
12:13:36 <shachaf> `run >wisdom/'?h' echo '? "$@" | perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])\b/$1h$2/g'\'''
12:13:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?h: not found
12:13:57 <HackEgo> Bacta: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
12:14:08 <HackEgo> Welcome to the internationahl huhb fohr esoterihc programming language design and deployment! Fohr more informatiohn, check ouht ouhr wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Fohr the othehr kind of esoterica, try #esoterihc ohn irc.dahl.neht.)
12:14:20 <HackEgo> Finland ihs a Europeahn country. There are two people ihn Finland, and aht least nine of thehm are ihn thihs channehl. Coruhn drivehs the buhs.
12:14:53 <shachaf> `run welcome | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/g'
12:14:55 <HackEgo> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd of ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
12:15:14 <shachaf> `run >bin/'?hh' echo '? "$@" | perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/g'\'''
12:15:24 <HackEgo> ? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])\b/$1h$2/g'
12:15:29 <HackEgo> Hehxhahm ihs a Euhrohpeahn town. Thehre ahre nihne peohple ihn Hehxhahm, ahnd aht leahst two of thehm ahre ihn thihs chahnnehl. Tahnehb loohks aftehr the hahm.
12:15:37 <shachaf> I should've escaped that, shouldn't I.
12:16:09 <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, this isn't sabotage, is it?
12:16:12 <shachaf> It's a whole separate command!
12:16:34 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ??: not found
12:16:40 <HackEgo> The friehndshihp mohnqy ihs ahn ahnciehnt Chihnehse myhstehry; ahsk ihtihduhs21 fohr dehtaihls.
12:16:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ??: not found
12:16:53 <HackEgo> ehlliohtt wrohte thihs leahrn DB, ahnd wrohte ohr ihmprohvehd mahny of the ohthehr cohmmahnds ihn thihs boht. He prohbahbly hahs dohne ohthehr thihngs?
12:16:54 <HackEgo> zzo38 ihs noht ahctuahlly the nehxt vehrsiohn of fuhngoht, muhch ahs iht may seehm.
12:17:55 <shachaf> `run >bin/'?hhh' echo '? "$@" | perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz]+)/$1h$2/g'\'''; chmod +x bin/\?hhh
12:18:04 <HackEgo> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd of ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
12:18:22 <fizzie> ?hhhhh will just be s/./h/g, right?
12:18:34 <HackEgo> fihzzie ihs ruhmouhrehd to be wrihttehn ihn Fuhnge-98.
12:18:40 <fungot> shachaf: and most esolangs aren't that big. and i have a problem with going back in the whitespace if you want
12:18:41 <HackEgo> fuhngoht cahnnoht be stohppehd by thaht swohrd ahlohne.
12:18:54 <fizzie> fungot: Is anything capable of stohppehing you?
12:18:55 <fungot> fizzie: would that be exactly? some kind of extreme masochist who loves being shot 30 metres away :(
12:19:24 <shachaf> fungot: Wow, that's pretty ehxtrehme.
12:19:25 <fungot> shachaf: that the simplest possible field is k 0, but 1, 2
12:19:26 <oerjan> shachaf: i think it is a mistake to bake the ? part in, that way you cannot use it to create a proper wehlcohme command
12:19:37 <shachaf> oerjan: True. Feel free to generalize it.
12:20:23 <HackEgo> tehlehmahrkehtehr? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:20:46 <shachaf> This leahrn DB could use a bunch more entries.
12:21:09 <HackEgo> Unbouhnd ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr (?hahskehll::Wihsdohm) \ ahrihsihng frohm a uhse of ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr `?hahskehll'
12:21:37 <HackEgo> Mohnoihds ahre juhst cahtehgohriehs wihth a sihngle ohbjehct.
12:21:37 <HackEgo> Mohnoihds ahre the eahsy vehrsiohn of cahtehgohriehs.
12:22:31 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm a bit confused, aren't ?hh and ?hhh equivalent?
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12:45:27 <shachaf> Actually hh is superior to hhh.
12:45:46 <HackEgo> Mohnoihds ahre juhst cahtehgohriehs wihth a sihngle ohbjehct.
12:45:47 <HackEgo> Mohnoihds ahre juhst cahtehgohriehs wihth a sihngle ohbjehct.
12:46:29 <shachaf> oerjan: I wanted to make two improvements to `?h -- the hh one and the hhh one.
12:46:39 <shachaf> But the hh one subsubes the hhh one.
12:47:16 <HackEgo> Fiohra ihs frohm sohme ihslahnd sohmewhehre. She juhst doehsn't wahnt to be bohthehrehd, ahs she wohrks ouht hehr dohmihnahtiohn plahn ahs ihmmohrtahl queehn of the drahgohns.
12:47:36 <shachaf> Fiora: Which that-comic character is *that*?
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12:48:07 <oerjan> wait, why didn't that give two hs
12:48:53 <shachaf> `run sed -i s,/g,/ig, bin/\?{h,hh}
12:48:54 <Jafet> I and I would appreciate that
12:48:58 <fizzie> f is not in the list of consonants there.
12:49:19 <fizzie> (For some reason or another. I just made it up.)
12:49:22 <Jafet> `run bin/hh bin/hh
12:49:23 <HackEgo> bash: bin/hh: No such file or directory
12:49:37 <Jafet> `run bin/\?hh bin/\?hh
12:49:43 <shachaf> fizzie: My ig change is still an improvement, isn't it?
12:49:48 * shachaf can't think very well at this hour.
12:50:02 <HackEgo> ? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'
12:50:25 <fizzie> shachaf: I guess, though arguably it should be even cleverer and adapt the majority case, to avoid DAL -> DAhL.
12:50:45 <shachaf> We can just say that the h is whispered.
12:51:29 <shachaf> Hmm, should the list of consonants have h?
12:51:48 <shachaf> `run sed -i s/bcdgklmnpqrstvxz/bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz/ bin/\?{h,hh}
12:52:10 <HackEgo> cahlvihn ahnd hohbbehs? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:52:17 <HackEgo> Uhnbouhnd ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr (?hahskehll::Wihsdohm) \ ahrihsihng frohm a uhse ohf ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr `?hahskehll'
12:53:00 <HackEgo> clauhstrohphohbia? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:53:13 <shachaf> This leahrn DB is usehlehss.
12:53:54 <Jafet> shachaf just arrived at wisdom.
12:54:11 <HackEgo> `? ? ⌨ ☃ 🐐 ais523 america atriq augur banach-tarski bike boily bonvenon brain brainf**k brainfuck brick burma c cakeprophet california category coffee comonad coppro cyberiad devious d-module egobot ehird elliott endofunctor endomorphism england esoteric europe everyone finland finnish finns fiora fizzie flower footnote 8 freefull friends
12:54:36 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
12:54:54 <oerjan> `learn Claustrophobia thought the wisdom database was getting too crowded, so left.
12:54:55 <HackEgo> Ihsn't iht fuhn reahdihng throuhgh ahll the foohtnohtehs?
12:55:29 <fizzie> `run ls wisdom | wc -l
12:55:31 <shachaf> `learn Friends make graphs together / La la la la
12:55:57 <Jafet> `run echo wisdom/* | xargs -n 1 cat
12:56:00 <HackEgo> See `? for further details. \ ? is wisdom \ ☃ brrr... \ You are probably using one right now! \ 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) \ Agent "Iä" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. \ This wisdom entry had to be removed due
12:56:20 <oerjan> `run echo >wisdom/flagpole A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top.
12:58:11 <oerjan> `run echo >wisdom/tadpole A tadpole is like a flagpole, but underwater.
12:58:16 <fizzie> `run find wisdom/ -type f -print0 | xargs -0 wc -c | sort -nr | head -n 2
12:58:18 <HackEgo> 10005 total \ 256 wisdom/wercome
12:58:34 <shachaf> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1339
12:58:38 <oerjan> fizzie: you need to drop ngevd
12:58:46 <fizzie> oerjan: I already did.
12:58:47 * shachaf approves of dropping ngevd.
12:58:51 <oerjan> or is that what the -type f is for
12:58:52 <HackEgo> oe{.IoOhPhi˖$0qa|M0ٞۗƖ!pn!(q%y7Ģ>{yg,2F#_J<)ػE2;EhD1E!ohG\S|3ax[L!o(APs%MEsgBA8UhTQL.DQk' \ |@Ȑ3GQu*eےf87ZTOp$apD(>S7E[!;t#(6 \ J.hͼܻ1x70ffX\zԧ:n~>Hu$
12:58:59 <shachaf> That's not what you meant by drop.
12:59:23 <fizzie> oerjan: Anyway, you just broke the ten-(SI-)kilobyte mark with your tadpole.
12:59:54 <shachaf> I move to delete wisom/ngevd
13:00:05 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisom/ngevd': No such file or directory
13:00:11 <fizzie> It is a cunning trap, ngevd is.
13:00:26 <Jafet> `run file wisdom/ngevd
13:00:26 <HackEgo> wisdom/ngevd: symbolic link to `/dev/urandom'
13:00:31 <shachaf> I move to delete wisdom/ngevd
13:00:41 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/dev/urandom': Read-only file system
13:01:49 <HackEgo> Tahnehb ihs noht ehlliohtt, no mahttehr who you ahsk. He ahlso ihsn't a rahbbi ahlthouhgh he hahs prehtehndehd ihn the pahst. (see ahlso: d-mohduhlehs)
13:02:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ??: not found
13:02:00 <Jafet> `run tr -cd '[:isprint:]' /dev/urandom
13:02:01 <HackEgo> tr: extra operand `/dev/urandom' \ Only one string may be given when deleting without squeezing repeats. \ Try `tr --help' for more information.
13:02:05 <Jafet> `run tr -cd '[:isprint:]' < /dev/urandom
13:02:07 <HackEgo> tr: invalid character class `isprint'
13:02:12 <Jafet> `run tr -cd '[:print:]' < /dev/urandom
13:02:13 <HackEgo> yaecHK},>Z'{C-w-Hfg[>"P|~F-C*`znS%Dc{NHp)n6Y^ncwa|$LCiO\96[Sv|1kgHN\]d@_|Y9h;Io_2c|q;Sw#/gE6$e.mx|u:qil5)(!K<?;_zrvT2B1:P@%&jB$WR{Ix>T1@j>]Q,p/2WPTN$~=Xa/U*z0p=7;'Hs}D36mv$i_<iy:-%I`}eef*#`7zyG$*Z!'y7ewh?%a?{)KFan}NUyh3d`V_[0K,R}&czT8nuzUioF`6o<QO[9MWc=4{`QY?y$d{VfzcK/3hNW'Q>5r{tLlI# k|l!sfRQ+_XbscbmpsljXL'5=^kGUbci*04h337g7%v/X1d&!3-kc"a"FX</QrGQ+
13:02:33 <HackEgo> D-mohduhlehs ahre juhst mohduhlehs ohvehr the rihng ohf dihffehrehntiahl ohpehrahtohrs. Tahnehb ihnvehntehd thehm.
13:02:39 <Jafet> `run tr -cd '[:print: ]' < /dev/urandom
13:02:41 <HackEgo> trt:]n n ptt ]n t] i r[ p[]]t[n:n][t[rprt nn[n []:nt[ rnp: ]rrrn[r[ rn] t[ ]rit]t]nnr[ntiitn:r[piptrr ]tr][rn i:ni[nptr[pitttn rpi]itt ]npn[: tpirp:in::[:]:t :rnti n]pi ti: t:r pi:n pipntnnr]i]t pr]:i]:]]nni:i[[:nt i:i[ttn [rr ppn:]pppr]:] :]]npip i:[tt nnprptrpttri][in:r n:: [[t:tn[p[ [:i]]n:it][i][]i:t nipp]r :: pn init :[tr:r:in: pt[:t r:p:
13:02:43 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules)
13:02:56 <Jafet> `run tr -cd '[:print:] ' < /dev/urandom
13:02:58 <HackEgo> b}!$4yxvz_R%(pe>ghW-/OO%tVGh"PDO8u*X5])QX8?"8{.-#a%wnSw2PeFmg3{m,2@C[KyT} rim_}j62z}M~ODz!wbSJgI(4+@fCN7evV=/r7po%n,><>: XN&[`sa)>^es}A5<sFIuAe1.,4Q$]jo{(NkuC'0NvsFQZJK`TUWL`*>\?5-JC!ewx@[%j!z{'c"B@DbO*h1_Lqm1EHu>[[D>L0&)nUR31s5vZu\;uZk,F8l!tQ*Zc3.3!gEg(!;!Yj}Z>rfz_nfFo86]cv|8a^Ut7tsd0to*+ajA: I}r#*rM!.L/=rhh~E)YBJj52?,=3pxm1n':}t1"^u%/KW`L51FvjOb:
13:02:58 <shachaf> `run ln wisdom/d-module{,s}
13:03:20 <oerjan> `learn Atrix is a brand of hand cream. Not to be confused with atriq.
13:03:21 <fizzie> Jafet: The '[:print: ]' one looked like an esolang.
13:03:43 <Jafet> `run tr -cd '+-<>,.[]' < /dev/urandom
13:03:45 <HackEgo> 31<9-5007[79]/1422;44[,4<06>,:977//>>6,6.0[>,>1;647/67;1]8-8<;<.,4<<]1.,5,7<8+00:4[>7:5.[6.],[92507.73]>:.[-0+<0/:06:-232..[[0/2467;-,]/,/543-[0//,5:.9];,:>98+.>+][3.,46<;>-1.:>37-66<],[6><+0;>>55872/;39.<,10>08>>0[-2,7[2,7[/4/776+>:+1;644:;4.>]4->9;]9.];]-0<479-96<793;/+39;[9].:9>7-4,7.:>7926-2,4:1..;6<-69:;[<-2.5;814<+1.8<]>8]<67437088+<<;241[570
13:04:02 <Jafet> `run tr -cd '\+\-\<\>\,\.\[\]' < /dev/urandom
13:04:04 <HackEgo> >,+.]>,[,[.[[-.+],]>+>+<.][[]-.<[.>+,-.>]><]>[]-+-<<<-]+>]-],<[[>[<].-,+>.+[<>>-<<+[[].>]<<[-].]<][-+<.+[<]<-++,]-,,,,,<>.-[+->.]].]<>>>[<++<[.+>[[--++-[>->,.[,.[+.<+>[>[>,[>]>-.-+++]-,+<--..<,+[.,+,-[.,[.<]>],+>]+-[<>[-<],-[]<-[],<+.+.,<<<<[,]>].<[,-,<.-,<<]>-[]-[-][].>.>>.[>->,-+-++++--<,<,+<<[-><+[[<.<.]..+]<>[.,<.,.>+]<.+>]<,.,.<-<>>>>[]>+][
13:04:49 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
13:05:03 <fizzie> I'd run it if it weren't for the mismatched []s.
13:05:54 <Jafet> !bfjoust dawkins [[[[?>,+.]>,[,[.[[-.+],]>+>+<.][[]-.<[.>+,-.>]><]>[]-+-<<<-]+>]-],<[[>[<].-,+>.+[<>>-<<+[[].>]<<[-].]<][-+<.+[<]<-++,]-,,,,,<>.-[+->.]].]<>>>[<++<[.+>[[--++-[>->,.[,.[+.<+>[>[>,[>]>-.-+++]-,+<--..<,+[.,+,-[.,[.<]>],+>]+-[<>[-<],-[]<-[],<+.+.,<<<<[,]>].<[,-,<.-,<<]>-[]-[-][].>.>>.[>->,-+-++++--<,<,+<<[-><+[[<.<.]..+]<>[.,<.,.>+]<.+>]<,.,.<-<>>>>[]>+][]]]]]]]]]
13:06:03 <EgoBot> Score for Jafet_dawkins: 0.0
13:06:28 <EgoBot> Score for Jafet__: 0.0
13:07:09 <fizzie> Now I didn't manage to catch the breakdown.txt for dawkins. :/
13:07:33 <Jafet> Wait, why is there a ?
13:07:41 <Jafet> !bfjoust dawkins [[[[>,+.]>,[,[.[[-.+],]>+>+<.][[]-.<[.>+,-.>]><]>[]-+-<<<-]+>]-],<[[>[<].-,+>.+[<>>-<<+[[].>]<<[-].]<][-+<.+[<]<-++,]-,,,,,<>.-[+->.]].]<>>>[<++<[.+>[[--++-[>->,.[,.[+.<+>[>[>,[>]>-.-+++]-,+<--..<,+[.,+,-[.,[.<]>],+>]+-[<>[-<],-[]<-[],<+.+.,<<<<[,]>].<[,-,<.-,<<]>-[]-[-][].>.>>.[>->,-+-++++--<,<,+<<[-><+[[<.<.]..+]<>[.,<.,.>+]<.+>]<,.,.<-<>>>>[]>+][]]]]]]]]]
13:07:44 <EgoBot> Score for Jafet_dawkins: 0.0
13:07:57 <fizzie> Well, there's *some* wins.
13:08:21 <fizzie> Also what are those two last matches -- ais523_counterpoke.bfjoust vs ais523_vibration.bfjoust and ais523_waterfall2.bfjoust vs atehwa_test_blah.bfjoust -- doing at the bottom of breakdown.txt?
13:10:27 <Jafet> `run rm wisdom/ngevd && ln /dev/urandom wisdom/ngevd
13:10:30 <HackEgo> ln: creating hard link `wisdom/ngevd' => `/dev/urandom': Invalid cross-device link
13:11:50 -!- heroux has joined.
13:13:29 <oerjan> `run ln -s /dev/urandom wisdom/ngevd
13:14:01 <fizzie> That was a rather short ngevd.
13:14:58 <oerjan> how does /dev/urandom end in the first place.
13:15:31 <Jafet> `run echo -e 'abc\0def'
13:15:47 <Jafet> `run echo -e '\0' | hd
13:15:48 <HackEgo> 00000000 00 0a |..| \ 00000002
13:16:08 <Jafet> `run echo -e 'abc\377def'
13:16:13 <Jafet> `run echo -e 'abc\xffdef'
13:17:46 <fizzie> `run printf 'abc\x0ddef'
13:19:16 <fizzie> (I have no idea why a CR does that; based on a quick test of adding some valid IRC commands after, it's not just because it were sending that raw.)
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13:28:18 <HackEgo> elliott \ shachaf \ welcome \ monqy \ banach-tarski \ hackego \ object \ endofunctor \ augur \ nooga \ gaspacho \ mad \ burma \ zzo38 \ php \ wiki \ coppro \ monoid \ friendship \ c \ gazpacho \ phantom____________________hoover \ usa \ irc \ brain \ egobot \ norway \ phantom__hoover \ qdb \ kallisti \ everyone \ d-modules \ oceans \ oklopol \ phan
13:28:30 <HackEgo> "Bahnahch-Tahrski" ihs ahn ahnahgrahm ohf "Bahnahch-Tahrski Bahnahch-Tahrski".
13:28:39 <HackEgo> Ehndohfuhnctohrs ahre juhst ehndohmohrphihsms ihn the cahtehgohry ohf cahtehgohriehs.
13:28:48 <HackEgo> gahszpahcho ihs a pohlihsh souhp, trahdihtiohnahlly szehrvehd cohld fohr hoht szuhmmehr dayhs
13:29:03 <HackEgo> gahzspahcho ihs a huhngahriahn szouhp, trahdihzsohnahlly szehrvehd cohld fohr hoht szuhmmehr dayhz
13:29:49 <HackEgo> Braihns ahre juhst rehcehptahclehs fohr brihcks.
13:29:50 <fizzie> Today's winning Subject: field: "CfP Workshop on".
13:29:56 <fizzie> It did make me look at the contents, at least.
13:30:03 <HackEgo> PHP ihs prehfehrrehd by 9 ouht ohf 10 ihdiohts, ahnd pahst ehlliohtt. Ahsk youhr GP tohday! [Wehbsihte rehdahctehd]
13:30:09 <HackEgo> The wihki ihs aht http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki
13:30:32 <HackEgo> cat: bin/hh: No such file or directory
13:30:37 <HackEgo> ? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'
13:31:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: h: not found
13:31:12 <shachaf> `run echo 'perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'\'' > bin/h; chmod +x bin/h
13:31:14 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
13:31:32 <shachaf> `run echo 'perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'\''' > bin/h; chmod +x bin/h
13:31:44 <HackEgo> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
13:31:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc'
13:32:17 <shachaf> `run echo 'welcome "$@" | h' > bin/wehlcohme; chmod +x bin/wehlcohme
13:32:39 <HackEgo> oehrjahn: du: jouhr: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
13:32:59 <shachaf> (THE JOKE IS DU JOERJAN BTW)
13:35:23 <HackEgo> Wehhlcohhme to the ihhntehhrnahhtiohhnahhl huhhb fohhr ehhsohhtehhrihhc prohhgrahhmmihhng lahhnguahhge dehhsihhgn ahhnd dehhployhhmehhnt! Fohhr mohhre ihhnfohhrmahhtiohhn, chehhck ouhht ouhhr wihhki: http://ehhsohhlahhngs.ohhrg/wihhki/Maihhn_Pahhge. (Fohhr the ohhthehhr kihhnd ohhf ehhsohhtehhrihhca, try #ehhsohhtehhrihhc ohhn ihhrc.dahhl.nehht.)
13:35:27 <shachaf> `run welcome | h | h | h | h | h
13:35:30 <HackEgo> Wehhhhhlcohhhhhme to the ihhhhhntehhhhhrnahhhhhtiohhhhhnahhhhhl huhhhhhb fohhhhhr ehhhhhsohhhhhtehhhhhrihhhhhc prohhhhhgrahhhhhmmihhhhhng lahhhhhnguahhhhhge dehhhhhsihhhhhgn ahhhhhnd dehhhhhployhhhhhmehhhhhnt! Fohhhhhr mohhhhhre ihhhhhnfohhhhhrmahhhhhtiohhhhhn, chehhhhhck ouhhhhht ouhhhhhr wihhhhhki: http://ehhhhhsohhhhhlahhhhhngs.ohhhhhrg/wihhhhhk
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13:36:28 <fizzie> Today's h% is at 5.16% according to my logs; yesterday's was 3.41%.
13:37:15 <fungot> fizzie: it's short for fnord tach guten tag ( german)
13:37:35 <shachaf> fizzie: Can we have a graph of h% over time?
13:37:57 <shachaf> `run echo monqy |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h
13:38:09 <fizzie> I probably shouldn't, but I'm terribly tempted to.
13:38:09 <shachaf> `run echo monqy |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h
13:38:19 <HackEgo> mohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnqy
13:38:35 <oerjan> `run echo kan |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h
13:38:46 <oerjan> (what do you _mean_ it's wrong)
13:38:58 <shachaf> fizzie: Or at least give us more information.
13:39:02 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'
13:39:04 <shachaf> Is this the highest h% we've ever had?
13:39:12 <shachaf> It's meant to be this way.
13:41:26 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/perl -pe '\''.*'\''/#!/usr/bin/perl -p\n$1' bin/h
13:41:27 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 20: unknown option to `s'
13:42:30 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: type: sponge: not found
13:42:41 <oerjan> `run printf "%s" '#!/usr/bin/perl -p'"\n"'s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' >bin/h
13:42:50 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -p\ns/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
13:43:44 <oerjan> `run (echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -p'; echo 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig') >bin/h
13:43:53 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
13:43:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:44:08 <oerjan> someone demonstrated it, so i wanted to try.
13:44:22 <HackEgo> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
13:45:05 <shachaf> `run echo 'perl -ipe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'\'' "$1"' > bin/'h!'; chmod +x bin/'h!'
13:47:20 <oerjan> `run printf "%s" how did it go again
13:47:33 <oerjan> `run printf "%s\n" how did it go again
13:47:35 <HackEgo> how \ did \ it \ go \ again
13:48:26 <fizzie> shachaf: http://sprunge.us/ibUP (But the database is only updated every now and then, so it doesn't really have much of today in it.)
13:49:16 <HackEgo> printf (GNU coreutils) 8.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by David MacKenzie.
13:49:56 <fizzie> `run type printf # there's also this
13:50:22 <fizzie> `run printf --version # which doesn't know about versions
13:50:24 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: printf: --: invalid option \ printf: usage: printf [-v var] format [arguments]
13:50:31 <oerjan> oh, i assumed which would catch builtins
13:50:34 <HackEgo> Can't open perl script "s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig": No such file or directory
13:50:43 <HackEgo> perl -ipe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' "$1"
13:50:56 <Taneb> I vaguely remember a rant about how the chap who makes Python doesn't like functional programming
13:51:33 <shachaf> `run sed s/i/i\'\'\ -/ bin/h\!
13:51:34 <HackEgo> perl -i'' -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' "$1"
13:51:41 <shachaf> `run sed -i s/i/i\'\'\ -/ bin/h\!
13:52:09 <HackEgo> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
13:53:30 <shachaf> oerjan: would it be bad if i `h! wisdom/welcome
13:54:15 <oerjan> it's bad that you're even _thinking_ about it, shachaf
13:54:26 <shachaf> fizzie: So today is the highest-h% day ever?
13:54:44 <shachaf> oerjan: Would you /kickban me if I did it?
13:54:58 <oerjan> fizzie: you should graph frequency of letter / average frequency of letter for all letters, hth
13:55:17 <shachaf> hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth
13:55:28 <shachaf> `echo just doing my part | h
13:55:40 <shachaf> `run echo just doing my part | h
13:56:07 <Arc_Koen> elliott: I think there's something wrong with the wiki
13:56:18 <Arc_Koen> my browser tells me it can't find the server for http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge
13:56:23 <oerjan> hm i guess that would give huge variation for rare letters.
13:57:01 <oerjan> i think it's shachaf's job to buy us the ohrg domain for that use
13:57:01 <shachaf> Arc_Koen: Oops, that's a bug in the welcome script.
13:57:17 <fizzie> shachaf: The 5.16%/3.41% numbers weren't computed in quite the same way, so I can't be exactly sure; and the query only looked at last year and this; but odds are reasonable. (According to http://sprunge.us/XCaj mean h is 0.035, with a sigma of 0.0026, so an actual 5.16% would be like a six-sigma result.
13:57:22 <shachaf> `run wehlcome Arc_Koen |h |h |h |h
13:57:24 <HackEgo> bash: wehlcome: command not found
13:57:27 <shachaf> `run wehlcohme Arc_Koen |h |h |h |h
13:57:30 <HackEgo> Ahhhhhrc_Koehhhhhn: Wehhhhhlcohhhhhme to the ihhhhhntehhhhhrnahhhhhtiohhhhhnahhhhhl huhhhhhb fohhhhhr ehhhhhsohhhhhtehhhhhrihhhhhc prohhhhhgrahhhhhmmihhhhhng lahhhhhnguahhhhhge dehhhhhsihhhhhgn ahhhhhnd dehhhhhployhhhhhmehhhhhnt! Fohhhhhr mohhhhhre ihhhhhnfohhhhhrmahhhhhtiohhhhhn, chehhhhhck ouhhhhht ouhhhhhr wihhhhhki: http://ehhhhhsohhhhhlahhhhhn
13:57:38 <shachaf> `run wehlcohme Arc_Koen |h
13:57:40 <HackEgo> Ahhrc_Koehhn: Wehhlcohhme to the ihhntehhrnahhtiohhnahhl huhhb fohhr ehhsohhtehhrihhc prohhgrahhmmihhng lahhnguahhge dehhsihhgn ahhnd dehhployhhmehhnt! Fohhr mohhre ihhnfohhrmahhtiohhn, chehhck ouhht ouhhr wihhki: http://ehhsohhlahhngs.ohhrg/wihhki/Maihhn_Pahhge. (Fohhr the ohhthehhr kihhnd ohhf ehhsohhtehhrihhca, try #ehhsohhtehhrihhc ohhn ihhrc.d
13:58:22 -!- Arc_Koen has changed nick to Ahhrc_Koehhn.
13:59:32 <fizzie> oerjan: I'll certainly try to include that in the forthcoming "#esoteric visualizations" website.
14:01:17 <fizzie> Maybe some kind of a RRDtool-driven thing could work for it, this query across the whole of time itself is taking a long long time.
14:01:20 <shachaf> oerjan: Homework: Improve `h so that you can give it command line arguments.
14:01:47 <shachaf> E.g. if $# > 1 echo $@ | exec $0
14:02:17 <shachaf> `run echo ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz | h
14:02:41 <shachaf> `run echo Phantom_Hoover | h
14:04:43 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
14:04:48 <HackEgo> + trap 'kill -TERM 0' EXIT \ + read s \ + files=(/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2013-??-??.txt) \ + line= \ + jobs \ + [[ -z '' ]] \ + sleep .3 \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \
14:04:54 <shachaf> Does anyone need that file?
14:06:56 <fizzie> Okay, the full query says there's been a h% of approximately 67% on 2004-11-22, but on that day the only message was "heh", so maybe it doesn't quite count? http://sprunge.us/OPVj
14:07:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:07:40 <fizzie> 2004-07-04 managed an impressive 37.5% over nine separate messages, though.
14:07:57 <fizzie> ("hi", "hi", "dah", "you", "oh no", "heh", "hi", "hi" and "hi".)
14:08:07 -!- augur has joined.
14:08:24 <fizzie> (Also my logs are occasionally spotty, I've spent a few months away now and then.)
14:09:56 <fizzie> Oh, unless you meant the other "heh".
14:10:03 <fizzie> The single-"heh" day "heh" was lament.
14:11:57 <oerjan> shachaf: i doubt it will be missed http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=dbg.out
14:12:18 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTE=- \ else \ PASTE="$1" \ fi \ \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"
14:12:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:12:54 -!- boily has joined.
14:12:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32510
14:14:18 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.352
14:15:18 <fizzie> Considering only days with at least 200 messages (a number out of a hat), hhhhighest h-honour goes to 2005-05-09 with 4.658%. http://sprunge.us/NaEU
14:15:20 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
14:15:33 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5817 \ cat: nosuchfile: No such file or directory
14:17:21 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/paste
14:17:23 <fizzie> Thhhhough we're all abso-hhh-lutely ruining today's originally-hhhhhhigh chhances of gehttihng to the thop, withhhhh all this unnecessary chhatter.
14:17:53 <shachaf> Weh're noht gohihng to geht pahst 67%
14:18:28 <fizzie> It just takes hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh determination.
14:18:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .).
14:20:15 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste
14:20:20 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 14:20:18 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste [181/181] -> "paste.1" [1]
14:20:44 <oerjan> `run cat paste.1 >bin/paste
14:20:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/test
14:21:01 <oerjan> `run echo test | paste
14:21:05 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19590
14:22:11 <oerjan> there, now paste is a synonym for url when there's an actual filename
14:24:04 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ else \ url "$1" \ fi
14:24:59 <shachaf> oerjan: Were you referring to the dinosaur?
14:25:22 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaan
14:25:39 <oerjan> `run sed -i -e 's/else/else # Save making a file when it already exists./' bin/paste
14:25:47 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ else # Save making a file when it already exists. \ url "$1" \ fi
14:25:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/test
14:27:58 <boily> hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhi all!
14:28:16 <oerjan> hhhhhhhhhhhehlloh bhoihlyh
14:28:59 -!- oerjan has set topic: WHYH HHHHHHELLOHH THEHRE | FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE | concealed in fold of goat-time lumber | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
14:29:07 <HackEgo> phantom____________________hoover \ brick \ gaspacho \ bike \ gregor \ lifthrasiir \ cakeprophet \ c \ boily \ i \ norway \ shachaf \ egobot \ ☃ \ misspellings of croissant \ monoid \ the them \ natural transformation \ lens \ gazpacho \ lettuce \ wiki \ flagpole \ monoids \ itidus21 \ szoup \ vorpal \ välkommen \ fiora \ taneb \ devious \ ø \
14:29:12 <shachaf> `?hh phantom____________________hoover
14:29:13 <HackEgo> <spahn ahccehnt="Brihtihsh">Youhr souhndcahrd wohrks pehrfehctly.</spahn>
14:29:32 <shachaf> imo hhhhhhhhtml shouhld be the nehw stahndahrd
14:29:34 <oerjan> much better accent now
14:29:35 <HackEgo> lihfthrahsiihr ihs shuhnnehd by the rehst ohf hihs couhntry fohr beihng no goohd aht Leahgue ohf Lehgehnds.
14:29:40 <HackEgo> Brihck goehs ihn braihn. The stahtuhtohry puhnihshmehnt fohr pehrpehtrahtohrs ohf braihnfuhck dehrihvahtihvehs.
14:30:14 <HackEgo> Mohnoihds ahre the eahsy vehrsiohn ohf cahtehgohriehs.
14:30:28 <HackEgo> A flahgpohle ihs lihke a tahdpohle, buht wihth a flahg ohn tohp.
14:30:31 <HackEgo> Lehttuhce ihs a vehgehtahble wihth two drehssihngs, joihn ahnd meeht.
14:30:41 <HackEgo> ˱KXfU`YB_/VR`~3莁܊S|jPj~9]ĒY`UhZ8= 3qpsvo+P~a#]Siy}.NY.a['/ S.͓ܭfEQu.|Q>;ZdF9{EP|d1vz!b}Qa`} \ <FR=ߕV8_0/l.Y`LSWEѻu$_1R-Ϛc \ nį9Bp^#T~5_kAqgOX=A4{Q. 4[:.
14:30:57 <HackEgo> Vohrpahl ihs reahlly bohrihng. Sehriouhsly, you hahve no ihdea.
14:31:01 <HackEgo> Hehj ohch välkohmmehn tihll dehn ihntehrnahtiohnehlla knuhtpuhnktehn för dehsihgn ohch dihstrihbuhtiohn ahv ehsohtehrihska prohgrahmspråk! För mehr ihnfohrmahtiohn, se vår wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (För dehn ahndra sohrtehns ehsohtehrihsm, pröva #ehsohtehrihc på ihrc.dahl.neht.)
14:31:11 <HackEgo> ø ihs noht goihng ahnywhehre
14:31:19 <shachaf> `?hh misspellings of croissant
14:31:21 <HackEgo> mihsspehllihngs ohf crohsahnt? ¯\(°_o)/¯
14:31:32 <shachaf> `?hh natural transformation
14:31:33 <HackEgo> Nahtuhrahl trahnsfohrmahtiohns ahre juhst mohrphihsms ihn the cahtehgohry ohf fuhnctohrs
14:31:58 <oerjan> `learn Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug
14:32:09 <HackEgo> Ø ehscahpehd due to a sehnsihtihve cahse buhg
14:32:20 <HackEgo> A szouhp a szihlárd tápszehrehknehk híg ahlahkbahn vahló ehlkészítése a célból, hohgy könnyehbbehn ehmészthehtők lehgyehnehk; a hígító ahnyahg a vihz, mehly fehlohldja s mahgába vehszi a tápahnyahg lehgértékehsehbb részeiht.
14:32:31 <HackEgo> A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit.
14:32:50 <HackEgo> 🐐 \ substructural typing \ intercal \ scotland \ oerjan \ pietbot \ ☃ \ ais523 \ america \ wisdom \ webcarting \ phantom__hoover \ europe \ coffee \ monqy \ everyone \ c \ maths \ ? \ lettuce \ the us \ atrix \ brick \ united states \ freefull \ finland \ england \ sgeo \ phantom_______hoover \ olsner \ i \ nooga \ finnish \ hackego \ shach
14:32:57 <HackEgo> Noht to be cohnfuhsehd wihth struhctuhrahl suhbtyhpihng.
14:33:05 <boily> `run ls wisdom/* | shuf
14:33:06 <HackEgo> wisdom/glogbot \ wisdom/gazspaczo \ wisdom/gazpacho \ wisdom/monqy \ wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/misspellings of croissant \ wisdom/olsner \ wisdom/☃ \ wisdom/flower \ wisdom/shachaf \ wisdom/the them \ wisdom/coppro \ wisdom/wercome \ wisdom/wisdom \ wisdom/lifthrasiir \ wisdom/pie \ wisdom/nooga \ wisdom/ievan \ wisdom/hexham \ wisdom/u \ wisdom/
14:33:07 <elliott> 13:56:07 #esoteric: <Arc_Koen> elliott: I think there's something wrong with the wiki
14:33:09 <shachaf> `?hh struhctuhrahl suhbtyhpihng
14:33:11 <HackEgo> struhhctuhhrahhl suhhbtyhhpihhng? ¯\(°_o)/¯
14:33:21 <shachaf> elliott: It was just a joke anyway.
14:33:43 <shachaf> elliott: btw ihm gohihng to sleehp ihn a mohmehnt
14:33:50 <HackEgo> Noht to be cohnfuhsehd wihth suhbstruhctuhrahl tyhpihng.
14:34:03 <HackEgo> iehvahn ihs bahsihcahlly http://www.youhtuhbe.cohm/wahtch?v=4ohm1rQKPihjI
14:34:52 <HackEgo> ievan is basically http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4om1rQKPijI
14:35:26 <HackEgo> エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て： http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge。（他のエソテリック、ihrc.dahl.nehtの#ehsohtehrihcへ）
14:36:01 <HackEgo> HahckEhgo, ahlso known ahs HahckBoht, ihs a boht thaht ruhns ahrbihtrahry cohmmahnds ohn Uhnihx. See `hehlp fohr ihnfo ohn uhsihng iht. You shouhld tohtahlly try to hahx0r iht! Mahke suhre you ihmahgihne iht's ruhnnihng ahs rooht wihth no sahndbohxihng.
14:36:04 <HackEgo> Ahtrihx ihs a brahnd ohf hahnd creahm. Noht to be cohnfuhsehd wihth ahtrihq.
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14:45:30 <HackEgo> Swehdehn ihs the suhbuhrb cahpihtahl ohf Nohrway. Iht's whehre ahll the Nohbehl prihzehs ahre ahnnouhncehd, ehxcehpt the Mahth Prihze.
14:47:35 <boily> bhy the whay, why arhe whe h-ing evherhythingh thodhay?
14:48:04 <shachaf> boily: oerjn is paying penance for /kickbanning me
14:50:30 <shachaf> `learn Parsley is a girl in the South Seas.
14:51:00 <shachaf> Maybe Parsley is a princess?
14:51:08 <shachaf> In der Südsee angekommen, treffen die drei auf das im Schachbrettmuster gefärbte Mädchen Petersilie (dessen Vater ein Stammeshäuptling, die Mutter allerdings Tippfräulein auf einer hiesigen Kokosflockenfarm ist) sowie ihren Vater Rabenaas, der mithilfe seines Taschenmessers, das er mit heißen Bratäpfeln zu laden pflegt, sogar Walfische (die bekanntlich Säugetiere sind und nur aus Versehen im Wasser leben) in die Flucht schlagen kann. ...
14:51:14 <shachaf> ... Negro Kaballo lernt ein Schimmelfräulein kennen und beschließt, bei ihr zu bleiben und nie mehr zu sprechen. Daraufhin machen sich Ringelhuth und Konrad wieder auf den Heimweg und kommen mit Rabenaas’ Hilfe noch so rechtzeitig an, dass der Onkel den Nachtdienst in der Apotheke antreten und der Neffe seinen Aufsatz schreiben kann. Dieser wird von ersterem noch gelesen, als er Konrads Eltern besucht. Zwar halten ihn diese für ...
14:51:20 <shachaf> ... geisteskrank, da er freimütig von seinen Erlebnissen berichtet, doch ihn, den erfahrenen Weitgereisten, kümmert das nicht: Er weiß, was er erlebt hat.
14:52:11 <oerjan> "Petersilie" looks similar to "Persille", which is the norwegian for "Parsley".
14:52:43 <shachaf> It was translated to Petrozilya (parsley) in Hebrew.
14:55:34 <boily> `learn Pasley is a girl in the South Seas. Persil est une demoiselle des Mers du Sud.
14:56:44 <oerjan> ...did you just misple parsley
14:57:16 <boily> `learn Parsley is a girl in the South Seas. Persil est une demoiselle des Mers du Sud.
14:59:48 <ion> http://i.imgur.com/I0MAPEk.png
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15:35:42 <HackEgo> Bihke ihs frohm Luhxehmbouhrg.
15:36:21 <ion> `?hh irc.dal.net
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17:01:26 <HackEgo> Monoids are the easy version of categories.
17:06:37 <HackEgo> Mohnoihds ahre the eahsy vehrsiohn ohf cahtehgohriehs.
17:08:46 <HackEgo> shahchahf sprø sohm sehllehri
17:09:58 <shachaf> It is, but the rule is vowel followed by a consonant.
17:10:09 <shachaf> (But if it *was* followed by a consonant, we'd be break the rule.)
17:10:49 <quintopia> why cant vowels followed by spaces be h'd
17:11:07 <shachaf> Because spaces aren't consonants.
17:11:50 <quintopia> oh okay. but what if we changed the rule so that spaces are consonants. is there anything ethically wrong with such a decision?
17:12:08 <shachaf> you can't change the rule...................................
17:12:26 <shachaf> Rules aren't meant to be changed.
17:12:50 <quintopia> what if we added a new rule about vowels before spaces
17:13:06 <quintopia> would we rip the fabric of the universe apart?
17:41:52 <Sgeo> pizza pie for breakfast time
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17:47:18 <Sgeo> in approx 25 minutes
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18:01:11 <Sgeo> "This is a reference to Jamie Oliver's food revolution. He dispises anyone who eats pizza for breakfast. Any person being called a pizza breakfaster is being called a really mean name."
18:03:05 <shachaf> `learn Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb.
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18:29:19 <Sgeo> Food. I ingests it.
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18:38:36 <kmc> shachaf: the MIT Mystery Hunt had a puzzle called "Git Hub"
18:38:49 <kmc> it consisted of a Git repo whose branching structure forms a map of the Boston rapid transit network
18:39:47 <kmc> i don't know, you had to match the station names to commit messages and diffs in some way
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18:40:47 * shachaf is going to sleep in a moment.
18:40:57 <HackEgo> Bihke ihs frohm Luhxehmbouhrg.
18:41:51 <Bike> good function imo
18:41:56 <kmc> Luhexhambouhrg
18:42:16 <HackEgo> Bihke: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
18:42:32 <kmc> bork bork bork
18:43:24 <Sgeo> elliott, go make that link work
18:43:38 <Bike> he'd have to register another domain name...
18:43:44 <HackEgo> ? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'
18:44:07 * Sgeo was kidding. Not even sure of .ohrg is an existent TLD
18:44:20 <shachaf> Running `h! wisdom/welcome gets you kickbanned from the channel.
18:44:23 <Bike> well he could register the new tld for just a few thousand fucks
18:44:44 <Bike> fucks would work too probably
18:45:11 <Sgeo> shachaf, now I'm curious
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18:45:47 <Sgeo> oerjan HATES it when there's no output, I guess.
18:45:58 <HackEgo> perl -i'' -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' "$1"
18:46:14 <HackEgo> oerjan: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
18:46:17 <Bike> that's a lot of quotation
18:46:29 <shachaf> Sgeo.........................................................................................................
18:46:35 <Sgeo> ...I was assuming the output would be what was bad
18:46:55 <shachaf> You hahve dohne the uhnthihnkahble
18:47:08 <shachaf> Sgeo: Didn't you learn from Racket?
18:47:32 <Bike> side effects are REAL sgeo. they are REAL and they want to hunt you down and HURT you
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19:01:43 <kmc> `addquote <Bike> well he could register the new tld for just a few thousand fucks
19:01:46 <HackEgo> 938) <Bike> well he could register the new tld for just a few thousand fucks
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19:04:25 <Bike> small price to pay
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19:10:55 <boily> fungot has left? nooooooooooooooooooo!
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19:12:25 <boily> long live the fungot!
19:12:26 <fungot> boily: since there's no way to move it to -blah then, huh...
19:12:45 <boily> well, fungot just moved to -blah.
19:12:46 <fungot> boily: alas, i am deformative, not deewiant. :p they claim that it's beautiful but certainly featureful. i agree that the world has agreed on not doing it if i was a little boy
19:13:03 <fizzie> If only we all were deewiant. Alas.
19:13:28 <Deewiant> fungot was deformative all along?!
19:13:29 <fungot> Deewiant: what way is call/ cc) ( call/ cc, by the way, scheme borrowed from algol more than some weeks or a couple more generations", seems rather cozy.
19:13:47 <HackEgo> Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
19:14:00 <Bike> `run sed -i s/h// wisdom/welcome
19:14:08 <HackEgo> Welcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
19:14:32 <Bike> `run sed -i s/h//g wisdom/welcome
19:14:41 <HackEgo> Welcome to te international ub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, ceck out our wiki: ttp://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For te oter kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:14:53 <fizzie> This is the best ub there is.
19:15:11 <boily> I like this ub, especially on Fridays.
19:16:20 <Sgeo> I'm sure there was a better way to fix it
19:16:25 <Sgeo> Besides reversions
19:16:49 <Sgeo> Just delete all h's between a vowel and a consonant. Imperfect but probably fewer repairs to do
19:17:20 <HackEgo> Welcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
19:17:35 <HackEgo> Welcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
19:17:39 <Gregor> `learn Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:17:47 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:18:04 <Bike> My solution was better.
19:18:15 <fizzie> `run welcome | h | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])h([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1$2/ig'
19:18:17 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:18:20 <boily> `learn ub is a saner hub.
19:18:29 <fizzie> Ooh, I think the unh works perfectly for that.
19:19:43 <kmc> `run cat bin/h
19:19:44 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig
19:19:49 <fizzie> `run printf '%s\n' '#!/usr/bin/perl -p' 's/([aeiouy])h([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1$2/ig' > bin/unh; chmod +x bin/unh # I'm sure we need all these
19:20:25 <fizzie> `run echo hello there, dahl | h | h | h | unh | unh | unh
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19:53:17 <oerjan> <shachaf> `run echo royal dal | h <-- it's "roald" hth
19:54:19 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/?
19:54:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/?
19:55:36 <oerjan> `run cat bin/'?' | paste
19:55:40 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16040
19:55:50 <Bike> `translatetoerjan hello there
19:55:54 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 4, in <module> \ data = json.loads(sys.stdin.read().decode('utf-8')) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/__init__.py", line 310, in loads \ return _default_decoder.decode(s) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 346, in decode \ obj, end
19:56:17 <oerjan> oh hm maybe url needs to do actual url escaping
19:56:22 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/'"$1" \ else \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/' \ fi
19:56:35 <oerjan> how does one do that, anyway
19:56:47 <Bike> running it through a cargoculted regex
19:57:00 <oerjan> `cat bin/translatefromto
19:57:01 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TEXT="$1" \ FROM=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ TO=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ if [ "$FROM" = "auto" ] ; then FROM="" ; fi \ \ curl -e http://codu.org/ http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/services/language/translate \ \ --data-urlenco
19:57:21 <FreeFull> I just thought of something evil
19:57:23 <oerjan> oh hm i think those use curl
19:57:38 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Google what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q='"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 4 'Search Results' | \ tail -n 2
19:57:44 <FreeFull> `run dd if=/dev/zero of=bluh bs=1M
19:57:56 <HackEgo> bin \ bluh \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
19:58:12 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
19:58:18 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 10485760 Jan 25 19:57 bluh
19:58:54 <HackEgo> ...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
19:59:32 <FreeFull> I'm tempted to flood the filesystem with max-size files
20:00:02 <olsner> please find a funnier abuse of the bot :)
20:00:25 <Bike> `run echo "FreeFull" | cat - bluh
20:00:26 <HackEgo> FreeFull \ ...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
20:00:31 <oerjan> `run grep -l 'lynx|curl|wget' bin/*
20:01:11 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metasepia_pfefferi is a weird cuttlefish
20:01:18 <oerjan> `run grep -l 'curl' bin/*
20:01:19 <FreeFull> `run grep -l 'lynx|curl|wget|nc|netcat' * -R
20:01:19 <HackEgo> bin/tclkit \ bin/translatefromto
20:01:28 <kmc> it's tiny (6cm), poisonous, and it walks on the ocean floor rather than swimming
20:01:29 <oerjan> `run grep -P -l 'lynx|curl|wget' bin/*
20:01:31 <HackEgo> bin/define \ bin/etymology \ bin/google \ bin/lua \ bin/luac \ bin/macro \ bin/tclkit \ bin/translatefromto \ bin/units
20:01:41 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Define what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q=define:'"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 3 'Definitions of' | \ head -n 4 | tail -n 3
20:01:56 <HackEgo> ELF...........>.....@.....@.......82.........@.8..@.(.%..................@.......@.....h.....h....... ............n.....nt.....nt.....Xk.............. ...................@......@.....D.......D....................n.....nt.....nt.....(.....................Qtd..................................................Rt
20:02:18 <HackEgo> +ص.m4c$P1#DGE~@ctskk~ZI?Fw.Od~?0 #hY=,͚Gضevm.AE5Ө|5ٯRf"XRY|,d37\A(EpVfvD;&L縸A^'dGAojI!/f]m6"aΌ}{ӮgNtauZc%-.x}k.G[^F?LC}!Б_뒤=r{l&'J
20:03:00 <Bike> i don't think you got it
20:03:14 <olsner> kmc: aren't all cuttlefish weird?
20:03:43 <kmc> sure but this one is weird among cuttlefish
20:04:40 <kmc> i don't think there's a cuttlefish in unicode :/
20:04:52 <Bike> combining cuttlefish below
20:05:36 <HackEgo> bin \ bluh \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
20:05:53 <FreeFull> Curious, is run write-protected?
20:06:00 <HackEgo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 35 Jan 25 20:04 run
20:06:06 <HackEgo> \#!/bin/sh\necho -ne 'Mmm, pie!'\n
20:11:28 <kmc> shachaf: so I learned how to use AES-NI
20:11:38 * Sgeo goes to watch some Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
20:14:14 <Sgeo> If my gf likes H+ (she does), does that suggest she'll like Ghost in the Shell?
20:15:11 <pikhq> Ah. Decent chance.
20:16:23 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /bin/*url*: No such file or directory
20:16:38 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /bin/*uni*: No such file or directory
20:17:36 <Bike> pikhq: by the way, did you hear about the new ghost in the shell show? the major has pants this time.
20:20:22 <oerjan> `run python -c "import urllib; print urllib.quote('''http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/?''')"
20:20:24 <HackEgo> http%3A//codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/%3F
20:20:47 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/'"$1" \ else \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/' \ fi
20:21:21 <pikhq> Bike: My girlfriend said something along the lines of "bullshit".
20:26:51 <HackEgo> wget: unable to resolve host address `url'
20:27:00 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/url
20:27:05 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 20:27:04 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/url [223/223] -> "url" [1]
20:27:26 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/url", line 3, in <module> \ arg = sys.argv(1) \ TypeError: 'list' object is not callable
20:28:49 <oerjan> oh duh so much for copying code from stackoverflow without checking if someone already pointed out it's buggy :P
20:29:29 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
20:34:41 <kmc> `cat bin/fetch
20:34:42 <HackEgo> cat: bin/fetch: No such file or directory
20:35:37 <Sgeo> wtf undigitizable code?
20:37:42 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/url
20:37:45 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 20:37:43 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/url [240/240] -> "url.1" [1]
20:38:07 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/url", line 3, in <module> \ arg = sys.argv(1) \ TypeError: 'list' object is not callable
20:38:15 <oerjan> `run cat url.1 >bin/url
20:38:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
20:38:31 <HackEgo> http%3A//codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%3F
20:40:12 <Bike> urlencoding is suffering
20:40:57 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/url
20:41:00 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 20:40:58 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/url [233/233] -> "url.2" [1]
20:41:06 <oerjan> `run cat url.2 >bin/url
20:41:16 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%3F
20:41:46 <Sgeo> trynottothinkaboutit trynottothinkaboutit
20:41:59 <oerjan> `run echo test | paste
20:42:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32012
20:42:17 <Bike> Sgeo: also don't think about how the tachikoma work physically, etc
20:42:39 <oerjan> Bike: well python had a module for it, so it seemed the simplest clean solution
20:42:59 <oerjan> (as opposed to writing a regexp mess)
20:43:18 <pikhq> Sgeo: "If you're wondering how he eats or breathes, and other science facts, then repeat to yourself 'It's just a show, I should really just relax.'"
20:43:34 <oerjan> unfortunately it encoded also the : after http: which my browser didn't like, but fortunately it doesn't require a whole url.
20:44:38 <Bike> oerjan: just encode the bit provided as an argument and append it to the unencoded prefix?
20:45:51 -!- ogrom has joined.
20:46:47 <oerjan> Bike: that's what i finally did
20:48:32 * oerjan remembers fixing url was yak shaving for something
20:49:32 <oerjan> ...you changed ? to do ngevd implicitly?
20:49:44 <HackEgo> wisdom/natural transformation \ wisdom/ngevd \ wisdom/nooga \ wisdom/nortti \ wisdom/norway
20:49:54 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Jan 25 13:21 wisdom/ngevd
20:49:57 <elliott> well that's stupid & someone should revert it
20:50:37 <HackEgo> Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced.
20:50:38 <HackEgo> 9VHƀ`JjAM<9|OO7;τ1:k47j.|YmA=H_F~$οizf䫴uj!!.#Mc? n\=M-fOHOV}L9KH#ɵyzXq:c77͜؍K \ :^'88eH]#w$K/POd&'Jg@lz\HV#yNUW9<qwjmb!%ar6PN$)f \ Kz$/{D]o)j \ e.~?C"] *ux|w:oC]ۘsX
20:50:38 <oerjan> elliott: well i guess someone got a bit fed up of having to make an exception for that whenever they did some command on all of wisdom/*
20:50:43 <Sgeo> I like that viginette at the end (is that the right term?)
20:50:56 <kmc> i should disable blinking :(
20:50:57 <elliott> oerjan: that someone should perhaps stop running commands on all of wisdom/*
20:51:03 <kmc> it's kind of the worst
20:51:05 <boily> kmc: you have blinking? lucky you.
20:51:26 <elliott> kmc: mosh feature request: double blink mode
20:51:37 <kmc> doubletime?
20:51:57 <oerjan> elliott: um grep as well as combined pasting are things that get awkward because of it
20:52:16 <elliott> oerjan: i don't think you appreciate the ngevd entry enough
20:52:32 <oerjan> elliott: feel free to revert it, i had nothing to do with it anyway
20:53:46 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:55:50 <kmc> i kind of want @PLT_SeinfeldToday
20:56:06 <kmc> "What if Seinfeld were still on the air, and also about programming languages theory?"
20:57:27 <Bike> what if seinfeld was still on the air, and writing a book about the economic history of c++ implementations?
21:01:04 <kmc> "Elaine dumps a guy after hearing him defend PHP. Kramer writes a monad tutorial."
21:02:12 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q
21:02:14 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 21:02:13 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [338/338] -> "q" [1]
21:02:37 <HackEgo> [: 4: missing ] \ [: 4: missing ] \ elliott? ��\(��_o)/��
21:03:09 <coppro> `echo Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced.
21:03:10 <HackEgo> Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced.
21:03:16 <coppro> `echo Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. >wisdom/ngevd
21:03:17 <HackEgo> Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. >wisdom/ngevd
21:03:30 <oerjan> coppro: what is the point of this.
21:03:35 <coppro> oerjan: to get rid of the yuck
21:04:03 <coppro> and that was the first available text
21:05:24 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q
21:05:27 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 21:05:25 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [338/338] -> "q.1" [1]
21:05:45 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? \ elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
21:06:04 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
21:06:12 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ ([ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e wisdom/ngevd \) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && cat "wisdom/$topic" || [ -e "wisdom/$topic1" ] && cat "wisdom/$topic1" || { echo "$1? ��\(��_o)/��"; exit 1; }
21:06:27 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: q: not found
21:06:57 <Bike> `learn $1? ��\(��_o)/��
21:07:27 <elliott> kmc: one tweet and yet this account still doesn't exist
21:08:19 <Sgeo> pikhq, are the dubs considered acceptable for Ghost in the Shell?
21:08:31 <pikhq> I've heard they're good.
21:08:32 <Sgeo> So far, these episodes have seemed.... emotionless
21:08:44 <pikhq> I don't watch dubs though.
21:09:01 <Bike> don't be so blasé about it
21:09:14 <Fiora> I think the dub was considered okay, but I preferred the japanese
21:09:23 <Fiora> the series really kicks into high gear around episode 4, where the story gets moving
21:11:13 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q
21:11:15 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 21:11:14 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [352/352] -> "q.2" [1]
21:11:28 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
21:11:32 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
21:12:13 <elliott> imo this q is about 0.1x as cool
21:12:35 <elliott> what if a thing is different from the plural of a thing!!
21:12:39 <elliott> maybe there's lots you can write about ngevds
21:12:43 <elliott> i'm just complaining though
21:13:44 <oerjan> elliott: um it will only use the singular if the plural doesn't exist. although i see a different problem...
21:14:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/devious \ wisdom/d-modules \ wisdom/finns \ wisdom/friends \ wisdom/lens \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/monads \ wisdom/monoids \ wisdom/oceans \ wisdom/the us \ wisdom/united states
21:14:47 <HackEgo> Monoids are the easy version of categories.
21:14:50 <HackEgo> Monoids are just categories with a single object.
21:15:21 <Sgeo> Fiora, in the middle of episode 2, now it's starting to hold my interest
21:19:04 <elliott> oerjan: you realise the smiley is messed up btw
21:19:31 <Sgeo> Yet still no East Virginia.
21:22:12 <kmc> elliott: help me write a few more
21:22:29 <oerjan> elliott: yes, i forgot to fix the hg raw view's encoding before cutting and pasting
21:22:46 <oerjan> `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q
21:22:49 <HackEgo> 2013-01-25 21:22:48 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [364/364] -> "q" [1]
21:22:57 <elliott> kmc: i think i have seen like one episode of seinfeld in my life
21:23:02 <elliott> kmc: not sure whether this makes me more or less qualified
21:23:20 <kmc> hm could be problematic
21:23:47 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
21:24:32 <kmc> "George's new language is just Lisp with new syntax; he hopes nobody notices. Kramer gets kicked out of a talk by Rich Hickey."
21:24:39 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/?hh: line 1: q: command not found
21:24:52 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia.
21:25:03 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host).
21:25:03 -!- quintopia has joined.
21:25:13 <HackEgo> q \ q.1 \ q.2 \ quotes \ quotese \ \ quines: \ cat \ perl \ python \ ruby
21:25:51 <elliott> kmc: imo look to esolangs for inspiration
21:29:09 <HackEgo> ? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'
21:29:37 <HackEgo> Mohnahds ahre juhst mohnoihds ihn the cahtehgohry ohf ehndohfuhnctohrs.
21:30:03 <oerjan> `run mv wisdom/monads wisdom/monad
21:30:12 <Bike> Seinfeld discovers a Brainfuck derivative that's supposed to look like one of his standup routines. George dates an APL programmer. (I have never seen seinfeld)
21:30:12 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
21:30:14 <Sgeo> Naruto makes me laugh. GitS doesn't make me laugh.
21:30:31 <HackEgo> wisdom/devious \ wisdom/d-modules \ wisdom/finns \ wisdom/friends \ wisdom/lens \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/monoids \ wisdom/oceans \ wisdom/the us \ wisdom/united states
21:30:43 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
21:30:46 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
21:31:03 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
21:31:35 <oerjan> `run mv wisdom/finns wisdom/finn
21:32:03 <HackEgo> Friends make graphs together / La la la la
21:35:01 <oerjan> that'll be enough for now.
21:36:08 <oerjan> `run echo "The U are a very mad people." >wisdom/'the u'
21:36:32 <oerjan> it somehow seemed to fit
21:39:48 <oerjan> `learn Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb.
21:42:33 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
21:43:40 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*Sgeo@*.dyn.optonline.net.
21:43:40 -!- oerjan has kicked Sgeo I'm sorry but this is apparently policy..
21:43:42 -!- tromp has left ("Konversation terminated!").
21:43:49 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*Sgeo@*.dyn.optonline.net.
21:43:54 -!- tromp has joined.
21:43:57 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
21:44:14 <kmc> the policy is to kickban Sgeo?
21:44:17 <oerjan> that /knockout command seems nice
21:44:17 <monqy> is oerjan logreading
21:44:28 <oerjan> <shachaf> Running `h! wisdom/welcome gets you kickbanned from the channel.
21:44:29 <kmc> for having bad opinions about anime or...?
21:44:48 <monqy> ahhh is that what happened to welcome
21:45:00 <kmc> oh h! mutates in place?
21:45:46 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:45:54 <oerjan> i'm tempted to remove h! as i cannot quite see a non-obnoxious use
21:46:04 <kmc> salt the earth
21:46:48 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19256
21:47:05 <monqy> `? phantom____________________hoover
21:47:06 <HackEgo> <span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span>
21:47:25 <monqy> `? phantom__________hoover
21:47:47 <monqy> `? shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
21:47:48 <HackEgo> shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:48:08 * Sgeo has perfectly cromulent opinions about anime.
21:48:10 <elliott> `cat wisdom/shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
21:48:11 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.: No such file or directory
21:48:21 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/shachaf*: No such file or directory
21:48:23 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri \ shachaf spr som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
21:49:21 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/shachaf*
21:49:22 <HackEgo> wisdom/shachaf \ wisdom/shachaf som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
21:49:58 <oerjan> there's an encoding mismatch
21:50:31 <elliott> it's the best thing there is
21:51:35 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/{shachaf*,ø}
21:51:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/ø \ wisdom/shachaf \ wisdom/shachaf som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
21:51:51 <monqy> `? misspellings of croissant
21:51:52 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; mv shachaf*. shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
21:51:52 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:51:53 <HackEgo> mv: target `weekends.' is not a directory
21:52:09 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; mv shachaf*. "shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends."
21:52:12 <HackEgo> mv: target `shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.' is not a directory
21:52:33 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access shachaf*.: No such file or directory
21:52:39 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/shachaf*.
21:52:40 <HackEgo> wisdom/shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. \ wisdom/shachaf som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
21:53:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:53:23 <oerjan> `? shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.
21:53:24 <HackEgo> shachaf spr som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
21:53:38 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
21:54:33 <elliott> oerjan: btw i am pretty sure that entry is actually meant to be called "shachaf"
21:55:42 <oerjan> `run rm wisdom/shachaf?*
21:55:53 <oerjan> `learn shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
21:56:09 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
21:58:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
22:01:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:03:49 <kmc> "George learns Ruby just to prove he isn't old. Kramer passes off Bob Sacamano's opinions about Haskell as his own."
22:06:49 <HackEgo> bin \ bluh \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
22:08:05 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:09:15 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 4096 Jan 24 12:51 korma
22:09:27 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
22:10:33 <zzo38> Maybe some Canadians in here (coppro?) might know if the Canadian law includes the calculation for Easter?
22:12:23 <zzo38> Easter and Good Friday are already statutory holidays but if they are without having a calculation as the part of the Canadian laws, then we don't have separation of church and state, and I think separation of church and state is a good idea.
22:14:24 <quintopia> so you think that saying "easter is whenever the church calendar says it is" is showing a preference to that religion?
22:14:59 <zzo38> quintopia: Yes. Including a calculation in the Canadian law, which happens to result in the same days all the time, though, is better I think.
22:15:08 <quintopia> do you think that including in the same law "ramadan is whenever the church calendar says it is" makes the government partial to two relgions?
22:15:33 <Bike> wouldn't the core problem be having a religious holiday be government-recognized at all
22:15:45 <oerjan> the church calendar says nothing about ramadan hth
22:15:53 <kmc> quintopia: it only matters if ramadan (or some holiday calculated from it like eid) is a civil holiday too
22:15:56 <quintopia> oerjan: yeah i know, it was an example
22:15:58 <kmc> which easter is
22:16:14 <zzo38> Although it may be a religious holiday, it is in this case, a statutory holiday rather than a religious one, even if it happens to be on the same date.
22:16:28 <zzo38> (And being on the same date I think is not a bad idea, though)
22:16:41 <kmc> since different churches do not agree on when easter is, if canadian law does not specify the calculation, it might have to say which church is right
22:16:48 <quintopia> and theres no issue with having a secular holiday on the same date as a religious one
22:16:57 <quintopia> for instance, christmas is already this way
22:17:03 <Bike> like how lee-jackson day just happened to be on the same day as the federally recognized martin luther king day
22:17:16 <zzo38> It uses the Roman church rather than the Orthodox one I think
22:17:19 <kmc> Bike: yeah wtf
22:17:30 <zzo38> quintopia: Yes, but Christmas is always on December 25 so that is easier!
22:17:33 * Bike is still pissed at Virginia, can you tell
22:17:34 <kmc> quintopia: yes but christmas is just specified in law as Dec 25, isn't it?
22:17:35 <quintopia> kmc: well, i dont think it should be a problem, since easter is on sunday, which is already not a work day
22:17:35 <elliott> In 1983, the holiday was merged with the new federal holiday Martin Luther King, Jr. Day as Lee-Jackson-King Day in Virginia. This merge was reverted in 2000.
22:17:50 <kmc> the problem is delegating to the church the decision over when exactly the civil holiday is
22:18:00 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, that is precisel
22:18:05 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, that is precisely what I meant.
22:18:32 <Bike> elliott: i know about this because the colbert report mentioned the republicans in the virginia legislature gerrymandering on mlk day, and then going to recess "to honor Jackson" or suchlike
22:18:36 <tromp> :t Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Language.ident
22:18:38 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Language.ident'
22:18:42 <kmc> quintopia: in Canada the Friday before (Western) Easter is a civil holiday
22:18:53 <quintopia> kmc: but what if the law says simply "the civil holiday will fall on the day given by the calculation that church x used in the year this was passed into law"
22:19:09 <quintopia> and the rule for picking the day isnt explicitly in the law
22:19:09 <kmc> quintopia: then that would be an affirmative answer to zzo38's original question
22:19:14 <lambdabot> Text.Read.Lex Ident :: String -> Lexeme
22:19:14 <lambdabot> Text.Read Ident :: String -> Lexeme
22:19:14 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.Identity module Control.Monad.Identity
22:19:19 <kmc> of whether the Canadian law includes the calculation for Easter
22:19:23 <kmc> it can include by reference
22:19:25 <oerjan> tromp: what's that supposed to do?
22:19:31 <zzo38> Because it is the days it is, I think it should remain that way (chainging it would mess up things), but I also think that the law should copy the calculation used to determine when the day is, or use an equivalent one, rather than delegating it to the church, even if the past reference.
22:19:46 <tromp> oops; i meant identifier :(
22:20:00 <Bike> i believe in you tromp
22:20:11 <coppro> zzo38: it is simply defined as "Easter Monday"
22:20:32 <lambdabot> Text.Parsec.Token identifier :: GenTokenParser s u m -> ParsecT s u m String
22:20:32 <lambdabot> Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Token identifier :: GenTokenParser s u m -> ParsecT s u m String
22:20:32 <lambdabot> Text.Html identifier :: String -> HtmlAttr
22:20:49 <oerjan> i don't think lambdabot imports Parsec stuff
22:21:15 <Bike> unrelatedly, aaronson thinks quantum computers will mostly be used for simulating quantum physics. huh
22:21:20 <kmc> this reminds me of a court case where the US Supreme Court decided that it was unlawful for the City of Cambridge to give churches the right to veto liquor licenses in their area, even though the City would be allowed to veto such licenses unconditionally
22:21:55 <kmc> presumably the City can solicit non-binding advice from neighbors too, but I don't know exactly where the line is drawn
22:21:58 <elliott> Bike: does that really count as a simulation :P
22:22:03 <kmc> elliott: yes
22:22:09 <elliott> metacircular evaluator for quantum physics
22:22:36 <Bike> if i simulate moniac on moniac does it really count as simulation, or just sloshing a bunch of water around masturbatorially?
22:22:41 <kmc> i could use a computer made of relays to simulate a ball rolling down a hill
22:22:47 <kmc> classical mechanics simulating classical mechanics
22:22:50 <kmc> still a simulation
22:23:10 <Bike> oh he has a picture from Spy vs Spy on his slides
22:23:11 <elliott> yes but when it gets to using the ~quantum essence~ to simulate the ~quantum parts~ then that seems sort of close to just using eval
22:23:16 <kmc> a quantum computer might use states of trapped ions or whatever to simulate some totally unrelated quantum system
22:23:17 <Bike> good representation of the crypto community imo
22:23:32 <kmc> i.e. anything
22:23:54 <elliott> but can we use one to make http://qntm.org/responsibility come true
22:23:54 <zzo38> coppro: And that is what I am opposed to; I would like to propose a law which includes the calculation for Easter, to avoid this. Simply defining it as "Easter Monday" without saying what that means, is also ambiguous, too, anyways. (There are more than one way to calculate Easter which results in the same thing, so you don't necessarily have to use the same one the Church does, to arrive at the same result)
22:24:03 <Bike> elliott: well, simulating quantum physics means you need a shitload of complex reals. that's just way easier with qubits than with bits (or "Bits Classic(TM)")
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22:24:12 <kmc> there are some strange holidays in japan
22:24:36 <Bike> elliott: i think we'd need a CTC for that
22:24:54 <Bike> actually no, that only just makes NP-complete problems easy, not turing-complete ones
22:25:04 <FreeFull> Just have a holiday on the first monday of april or something
22:25:21 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: logical trivialism is the future bro
22:25:22 <zzo38> FreeFull: I do not think we should change the holidays like that.
22:25:28 <kmc> nobody has proven that you can use qunatum computers to solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time
22:25:38 <Bike> kmc: with a CTC, I mean, not just quantum
22:25:39 <zzo38> (Still, if I did want to change the holidays, I would rather change them to the solstices and equinoxes)
22:25:46 <kmc> i don't know about those
22:25:52 <Bike> also hasn't the converse of that been proven
22:25:57 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: that doesn't matter
22:26:03 <elliott> what matters is getting people in #esoteric to read more sam hughes
22:26:10 <Bike> yeah, that's a good thing to matter.
22:26:12 <elliott> kmc: speaking of which did you read fine structure
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22:26:18 <kmc> what's the converse of an equality
22:26:20 <kmc> elliott: no
22:26:25 <Bike> Fiora: errrrr the negation? that quantum computers can't solve NP-complete problems in P-time
22:26:39 <Bike> i'm shit at logic man :(
22:26:41 <Fiora> I don't think that's true
22:26:45 <Fiora> that would imply P != NP
22:26:58 <Fiora> BQP is a superset of P
22:27:02 <Bike> oh, well then.
22:27:11 <oerjan> Fiora: it is not proved, but it is believed to be true
22:27:13 <Fiora> saying "quantum computers can't solve NP-complete problems in P time" is saying BQP != NP
22:27:18 <Fiora> yeah, sorry, that's what I meant
22:27:19 <FreeFull> Quantum computers might be able to solve NP-complete problems in P-time, but just as much as classical computers?
22:27:24 <Bike> anyway i am watching this: http://videolectures.net/nips2012_aaronson_quantum_information/
22:27:26 <Fiora> I'm not sure if that's true either?
22:27:34 <kmc> FreeFull: sure, if P = NP then that's the case
22:27:35 <Fiora> I'm not sure if it's possible for BQP = NP but P != BQP
22:27:35 <Bike> it's not really about complexity
22:27:50 <Bike> just aaronson explaining quantum computing to machine learning nerds and by extension me
22:28:32 <Bike> "A QC has factored 21 into 3×7, with high probability"
22:28:35 <oerjan> Fiora: i think it might also be possible for P = NP but P != BQP
22:29:03 <Fiora> wait, how oculd that be? I thought BQP >= P
22:29:14 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BQP_complexity_class_diagram.svg
22:29:17 <Bike> BQP is a superset of P but not necessarily a proper superest?
22:29:19 <oerjan> yes, but not necessarily BQP <= NP
22:29:32 <Fiora> but if P = NP, then that means BQP >= NP
22:29:43 <Fiora> since BQP cnotains P..
22:29:48 <oerjan> all of these fit between P and PSPACE, which are not known to be unequal
22:29:50 <Bike> i feel like a small animal dies every time you notate set relations like that
22:29:58 <Fiora> gah, my keyboard doen't have set icons on it okay :<
22:30:05 <Bike> me neither i'm just a jerk
22:30:44 <Fiora> I guess I'm using >= as superset, == as equivalent, <= as subset
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22:30:55 <Bike> aaronson also says the "prevailing belief" is that NP is not a subset of BQP, so
22:31:02 <elliott> things I like: <= on booleans is implication
22:31:09 <Bike> i hate you elliott
22:31:27 <Bike> what's wrong with "->" :(
22:31:29 <elliott> > (<=) <$> [False, True] <*> [False, True]
22:31:30 <Fiora> Bike: yeah, I figure that too
22:32:04 <elliott> Bike: imo the solution is to use -> as a comparison operator for all data
22:32:06 <Bike> what the heck are you doing that you need to notate function types, limits, and prop logic at the same time
22:32:11 <Bike> and can i get in on it
22:32:27 <Bike> wait, this is that homomorphic type theory mumbojumbo, innit
22:32:36 <Bike> errrr homotopy.
22:33:03 <Bike> the nonsense i just said
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22:33:32 <Bike> oh he mentions grover's algorithm again. that shit is so crazy. craaaaazy
22:33:34 <zzo38> You can also use /= for logical XOR in Haskell.
22:33:35 <elliott> i wish i knew what homotopy type theory was all about
22:33:53 <oerjan> Bike: something involving curry-howard and CPO denotational semantics, i bet
22:34:49 <Phantom_Hoover> whatever it is i assume it's totally divorced from what homotopy originally meant
22:35:03 <Bike> nah they're all about that homotopy shit
22:36:19 <Bike> "On some fitness landscapes, the adiabatic algorithm can reach a global minimum exponentially faster than classical simulated annealing. But on other landscapes, it does the same or even worse." :(
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22:37:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: In mathematical logic and computer science, homotopy type theory (HoTT) attempts to give an account of the semantics of intensional type theory using the framework of (abstract) homotopy theory, in particular Quillen model categories and weak factorization systems. Conversely, intensional type theory forms a logic (internal language) for homotopy theory.
22:37:26 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Homotopy Type Theory refers to a new interpretation of Martin-Löf’s system of intensional, constructive type theory into abstract homotopy theory. Propositional equality is interpreted as homotopy and type isomorphism as homotopy equivalence. Logical constructions in type theory then correspond to homotopy-invariant constructions on spaces, while theorems and even proofs in the logical system inherit a homotopical meaning. As th
22:40:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: seriously if you figure out what it means
22:42:12 <elliott> yes my paste mentioned category theory in the bit that got cut off in fact
22:42:43 <Phantom_Hoover> wasn't homotopy the original motivation for category theory
22:43:50 <Phantom_Hoover> wait is it homology or homotopy that's relatively easy to understand
22:44:46 <elliott> what's that branch of mathematics that's named after some tropical location
22:45:22 <Bike> this presentation has sadly little to do with neuroscience :(
22:45:58 <Bike> also he's talking about quantum DRM
22:46:06 <Bike> "don't worry, it's not going to be practical for a long time"
22:46:21 <elliott> Bike: what am i thinking of
22:46:39 <Bike> elliott we all know you have a bad track record with small islands
22:47:22 <Bike> oh there he's talking about biology. forty goddamn minutes in
22:48:00 <elliott> Bike: you mean the best track record
22:48:14 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: do you know <-- would i bet if i knew
22:50:36 <Bike> when i google "mathematics tropic island" i get a bunch of "adventure time" stuff.
22:53:44 <oerjan> i think homotopy is relatively easy to get the basic definitions, but iiuc it gets even worse than homology when you want to prove things. although homology is also homotopy-invariant.
22:54:25 <elliott> Bike: maybe it wasn't named after an island
22:54:35 <Bike> "my friends in the singularity movement" NOOOOO
22:55:10 <Sgeo> It's impossible to have a mystery when you don't know what sort of technology can exist
22:55:18 <Sgeo> *mystery story
22:55:20 <kmc> THAT'S THE MYSTERY
22:55:36 <Sgeo> There's no way for people to guess what sort of unintroduced technology could be behind it
22:56:05 <Bike> elliott: well given how mathematics has mostly been white europeans for the last few centuries i'm not sure why they'd name something after a large nation and not just their vacation spot, i guess :/
22:56:35 <elliott> Bike: i think it might have literally been named after the beach whoever it was came up with it on or something
22:56:37 <HackEgo> 690) <Phantom_Hoover> I had a dream last night where I got hit by a van but the van had a brain uploader in it and I was uploaded and I angsted because I was stuck spending eternity with singularitarians?
22:56:39 <elliott> argh this is going to drive me crazy
22:56:46 <Bike> elliott: that's pretty great
22:56:59 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: thanks, my nightmares weren't bad enough
22:57:29 <elliott> ok does wikipedia have a list of fields of mathematics
22:57:45 <Phantom_Hoover> It was honestly worse than the dream where there was a nuclear war when we were driving to ireland so we drove to some dreary fallout shelter.
22:57:51 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_mathematics_topics
22:58:06 <Bike> "shut the fuck up mathematicians, i'm trying to find your goddamn beach!"
22:58:06 <Phantom_Hoover> And then I looked up the world map on Wikipedia and all the continents were cut up
22:58:12 <elliott> Mathematics can, broadly speaking, be subdivided into the study of quantity, structure, space, and change (i.e. arithmetic, algebra, geometry, and analysis).
22:58:21 <Bike> that's pretty fuckin broad
22:58:22 <elliott> this seems a bit... woefully incomplete
22:58:37 <Bike> i guess CS would go under arithmetic
22:58:38 <elliott> the non-parenthesised list is hopelessly vague
22:58:41 <elliott> the parenthesised one seems hopelessly limited
22:58:49 <elliott> like where do foundations even go in there
22:58:56 <Bike> algebra probably?
22:59:00 <elliott> I guess you can argue for mathematics only being a subset of logic
22:59:07 <Bike> sure, if you're a jerk
22:59:47 <elliott> Bike: well I like doing that because it lets you slot CS in!!
23:00:03 <Bike> is CS even really part of logic in any meaningful sense
23:00:16 <elliott> except it's kind of all over the place so it doesn't work
23:00:19 <Bike> i already hate this idea
23:00:32 <elliott> the wikipedia article for mathematics does not contain the string "type theory". clearly injustice
23:00:38 <elliott> Mathematics (from Greek μάθημα máthēma, "knowledge, study, learning") is the abstract study of topics encompassing quantity,[2] structure,[3] space,[2] change,[4][5] and other properties;[6] it has no generally accepted definition.[7][8]
23:00:39 <Bike> fight the mathiarchy
23:00:46 <Phantom_Hoover> There was a fairly convincing article I read a while ago arguing that the thing that mathematicians actually do is basically a science.
23:00:47 <elliott> "what is mathematics?" "well nobody knows"
23:00:52 <Bike> what are birds
23:01:05 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: is "science" very well defined.........
23:01:12 <elliott> wikipedia is surer of what art is than mathematics
23:01:18 <Bike> is anything well-defined??
23:01:45 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Art-portrait-collage_2.jpg pictured: art
23:02:06 <Bike> that's about as broad as you could hope for, really
23:02:33 <Bike> maybe throw in something abstract, like that thing at the nearby museum that's literally a featureless black cube made of fiberglass and foam.
23:03:13 <elliott> the dog in the bottom-left looks totes miserable
23:03:16 <Bike> one of the questions is "do you think you'd need real random numbers and not just a PRNG to make an AI". X_X
23:03:21 <Phantom_Hoover> not really relevant but ianucci: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InD_IGwkXiE
23:03:30 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: you're blowing my mind here, man.
23:03:58 <Bike> this guy is a machine learning specialist. why are you saying this. you are better than this.
23:04:16 <Bike> ok the answer involves futurama
23:04:19 <Bike> lecture redeemed
23:04:31 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought he was just the writer of i'm alan partridge and the thick of it
23:05:35 <kmc> don't forget Time Trumpet
23:06:02 <kmc> and Veep (which is a bit like a US remake of TToI)
23:06:38 <kmc> you should see TToI
23:07:01 <Phantom_Hoover> i said i liked ianucci to a guy i know and he was like "wait you haven't seen the thick of it? but you're scottish!"
23:07:51 <elliott> Ambiguous occurrence `liftF'
23:07:51 <elliott> It could refer to either `Control.Monad.Free.liftF',
23:07:51 <elliott> imported from `Control.Monad.Free' at stt.hs:20:1-25
23:07:54 <elliott> or `Control.Monad.Trans.Free.liftF',
23:07:56 <elliott> imported from `Control.Monad.Trans.Free' at stt.hs:21:1-31
23:08:09 <kmc> Control.Monad.Trans.Fat.Free
23:10:15 <oerjan> @remember kmc Control.Monad.Trans.Fat.Free
23:10:19 <oerjan> @remember kmc Control.Monad.Trans.Fat.Free
23:12:29 <lambdabot> EvilTerran says: if three of those lines aren't import Control.Monad; import Control.Arrow; import Control.Applicative;, you can make it shorter ;]
23:12:57 <elliott> (((f (FreeT f m c) -> m c) -> FreeT f m c -> m c)
23:12:57 <elliott> -> f (FreeT f m c) -> m c)
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23:42:15 <Sgeo> Am I likely to get confused if I alternate between two animes every episode?
23:42:22 <Sgeo> So one episode of Naruto one of GitS etc?
23:42:55 <elliott> yes its due to the fundamental propertys of anime
23:43:29 <Bike> yeah you'll run into decoherence issues
23:44:24 <Phantom_Hoover> watching more than 1 episodic tv series simultaneously? madness, i say
23:45:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: no its just anime
23:47:15 <Bike> hey sometimes people explode into blood and/or robots
23:52:18 <Bike> no, people made of robots.
23:54:37 <oerjan> tentacled children, check
23:55:11 <oerjan> *tentacled robot children exploding, check
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23:57:21 <oerjan> actually, tentacled robots exploding children. we're maximizing squick here.
23:57:39 <Bike> dude i loved evangelion!!
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23:58:25 <oerjan> i just accurately described that, didn't i.
23:58:54 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe i should watch some of this anime thing sometime
23:59:43 <oerjan> the SNP would kill you
23:59:51 <elliott> the english invention of "anime"