00:01:16 <shachaf> kmc: What were you doing with it?
00:02:46 <shachaf> so easy i can hardly stand it
00:02:48 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, look i'm not going to let you off with not watching farscape
00:03:09 <elliott> farscape is on my list man
00:03:13 <elliott> also I've seen like 3 epsiodes
00:03:19 <elliott> I am a fearful english pansy
00:04:37 <elliott> I think they were like half way through
00:04:41 <Sgeo> and that's a fact and that's a fact and that's a fact and that's a fact
00:04:42 <elliott> or the last ones or something
00:05:13 <Sgeo> and that's a fact
00:05:39 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it was on tv ok
00:05:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I had nothing better to watch
00:06:06 <Sgeo> elliott, hi. And that's a fact.
00:06:40 <Sgeo> Ghost in the Shell is getting to me
00:06:59 <Fiora> hee hee. glad you're enjoying it ^^
00:08:01 <Sgeo> 3 separate characters have said "and that's a fact" in maybe 5 (or fewer) narrative minutes.
00:08:17 <Bike> wait, are you watching GitS or Brass Eye
00:08:26 <Sgeo> Ghost in the Shell
00:08:53 <Bike> hm. there should be a brass eye special set in wherever gits was.
00:09:04 <HackEgo> shahchahf sprø sohm sehllehri ahnd cohsplayhs Nehpehta Leihjohn ohn weehkehnds.
00:09:17 <shachaf> Could I pet a lion on weekends instead?
00:09:26 <kmc> shachaf: with what
00:09:35 <Bike> with his cosplay'd paw
00:09:57 <shachaf> I thought all those people didn't have hands or any hand-alikes.
00:10:33 <oerjan> hands are _so_ last evolutionary stage
00:10:35 <Bike> her name's Leijon, she's probably a lion.
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00:16:37 * Sgeo shoosh paps Phantom_Hoover
00:17:34 <Fiora> :33 < *ac pounces on sgeo*
00:22:25 <shachaf> Get your own personoid thing.
00:23:04 <Bike> Shachaf is the Nepeta here, Fiora. You'll have to be Eridan.
00:23:14 <Bike> no, wait, gamzee's your symbol, right
00:23:31 <Fiora> :33 < *ac is pawsitively upset that someone has tailken her identity*
00:24:11 <Fiora> :33 < i will not be eridan!! he is supurr cr33py and makes me uncomfurtable to be near him!
00:24:33 <Bike> I'm sorry, but rules are rules.
00:25:38 <Fiora> :33 < could you help meowt here and change them?
00:26:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qdbformat: not found
00:26:11 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
00:26:40 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ if [ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e wisdom/ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; exit 0; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic"; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic1" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic1"; \ else ec
00:27:50 <HackEgo> ^՟`)l~uN>6K'a6ED W<2]1y8/!'U@ܓgǚ_4W݈>؏)jg"uw%x7Ft`.-80hG0Ź3ۚ/SU!X \ Ihn3H5nP:Yb,nMgC3Zugs-Dϔh..#@ݦ.UtէbVO+bT<&e?FPhK<rѽ>˄*KڶBW6IT*ӫ"-Ќ~co)~
00:27:59 <HackEgo> 1;|?:O4CzA \ {69oW[W4v6)Ϝx.b6<J 7&R.㚫[~%7҉DCv:xb`P}'1PLsԿNzF2AtqnWPw:0.$﹁ٵSԀ▶.Z@)Ԩ$r;O{NT[P!2/1.l~KmVI~dl4yGZ
00:29:16 <shachaf> Fiora: What person-thing does *that* typing quirk make me?
00:31:38 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/ exit 0;//' bin/'?'
00:31:57 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ if [ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e wisdom/ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic"; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic1" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
00:32:10 <HackEgo> upU%V.MU65HY)JV9-F#E].aF.M4(..|9
00:32:51 <Bike> Fiora: as in, what troll talks with all the h's.
00:33:25 <Fiora> Hs? I just see a bunch of random noise
00:33:26 <HackEgo> Bihke ihs frohm Luhxehmbouhrg.
00:33:31 <HackEgo> Fiohra ihs frohm sohme ihslahnd sohmewhehre. She juhst doehsn't wahnt to be bohthehrehd, ahs she wohrks ouht hehr dohmihnahtiohn plahn ahs ihmmohrtahl queehn ohf the drahgohns.
00:33:36 <HackEgo> Fiohra: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
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00:52:16 <Sgeo> Gah GHCi 6.12.1
00:57:12 <Jafet> Glahsghow Hashkehl
01:01:40 <zzo38> I read about the SQLite file format of columns, and of ALTER TABLE ... ADD COLUMN ... command which can add a column but with various restrictions, and not affecting the data already in the table, but if you add a row where the rightmost columns will have the constant default values will it omit them?
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01:56:31 <zzo38> How can you even run PRAGMA commands in SQLite before the database is created?
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02:00:32 <Sgeo> Is the Facebook Hacker's Cup thing likely to look good on resumes even if I don't get first place?
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02:09:03 <kmc> i would put it on, if you reached any level above "also ran"
02:09:21 <kmc> i mean I don't know if there are rounds or divisions or whatever but placing at any level sounds pretty good
02:09:44 <Bike> There are sponges that eat crustaceans.
02:09:51 <kmc> however you shouldn't include it if it's taking up space that could be used to list more relevant or impressive stuff
02:10:01 <kmc> remember, the resume is an advertisement about you, designed to get you a phone call
02:10:33 <kmc> it doesn't need to be comprehensive
02:11:27 <kmc> i would say that any significant work or software project experience beats coding competitions
02:11:43 <kmc> the code you write for competitions is usually not good code, maintainable code, readable code
02:11:52 <kmc> and it's not the same kind of code an employer wants you to write
02:13:26 <kmc> also in my current view of programming and hacker culture, i have a pretty negative view of coding competitions
02:13:32 <kmc> but i've done them in the past and enjoyed them so *shrug*
02:14:33 <kmc> lately i've been enjoying a lot of games where there are levels and you try to beat the next level but you're not directly playing against other people
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02:19:33 <Jafet> These competitions look interesting: http://azspcs.net/
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02:20:29 <kmc> i do love the IOCCC though and I do want to run my own devious code contest
02:20:38 <kmc> i'm not sure how to square that with my other statement
02:22:03 <Jafet> (The current competition is, apparently, an open problem.)
02:22:04 <Fiora> what about the underhanded thing?
02:22:09 <kmc> what about it
02:22:27 <Fiora> in terms of devious code contests I guess
02:22:37 <kmc> you mean http://underhanded.xcott.com/ ?
02:22:48 <kmc> it's dead for 3 years :/
02:22:54 <kmc> also what I want to run would be a lot more open ended
02:23:22 <kmc> rather than a specific task I would just be interested to see code (in any language) that appears to straightforwardly do one thing but actually does a different devious thing
02:23:26 <kmc> there are a few IOCCC entries like that too
02:24:35 <Jafet> The underhanded C contest probably hit a bit too close to home.
02:25:21 <kmc> while C may be the king of unintended security holes, I think every language has its own unique & interesting ways to hide behavior
02:26:12 <shachaf> Writing underhanded code contest entries is a lot like making CTF levels, I suppose.
02:26:15 <Jafet> Opening the contest to multiple languages and genres will make judging hard
02:27:53 <kmc> shachaf: some CTF levels anyway
02:28:11 <kmc> i'm not that interested in an 'underhanded' program which is just, like, a HTTP server with a buffer overflow
02:28:16 <kmc> i can already find plenty of those
02:28:54 <shachaf> I'm thinking of the more specialized ones.
02:30:09 <shachaf> Actually, not many CTF levels I've seen have been particularly "obviously correct".
02:30:14 <Fiora> I'm imagining, like, an image processing program that reads an image, but actually executes part of the image as code when reading it
02:30:21 <Fiora> by sneakily smashing its own stack or something
02:30:27 <shachaf> It's more that they've had obvious bugs but the trick was how to exploit those bugs.
02:30:40 <kmc> shachaf: yeah, it varies
02:31:17 <kmc> the one using negative chars to index an array was non-obvious, to me, but maybe this is a vuln class that most other people know about
02:32:44 <kmc> i also like code that looks safe but is actually dangerous due to compiler optimizations
02:33:46 <Jafet> Fiora: that's easy, just require the image processing program to read metafile
02:34:27 <Jafet> (A metafile image consists of a sequence of Windows GDI function calls.)
02:34:38 <kmc> haha brilliant
02:36:05 <Bike> "Essentially, a WMF file stores a list of function calls that have to be issued to the Windows Graphics Device Interface (GDI) layer to display an image on screen."
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02:37:52 <shachaf> windows never meta file it didn't like
02:47:00 <shachaf> monoids monoids monoids monoids monoids
02:47:05 <shachaf> the easiest thing in the world
02:47:11 <zzo38> I wanted to use SQLite amalgamation but maybe it doesn't work; I want to use the following options: SQLITE_OMIT_AUTHORIZATION SQLITE_OMIT_BLOB_LITERAL SQLITE_OMIT_DEPRECATED SQLITE_OMIT_EXPLAIN SQLITE_OMIT_FLOATING_POINT SQLITE_OMIT_INTEGRITY_CHECK SQLITE_OMIT_TRACE SQLITE_OMIT_UTF16 SQLITE_OMIT_UNICODE
02:47:25 <zzo38> However, there is already the problem, since there is no SQLITE_OMIT_UNICODE.
02:47:51 <shachaf> zzo38: You shouldn't omit Unicode.
02:48:53 <kmc> SQLITE_OMIT_FRAME_POINTER
02:50:33 <shachaf> `learn kmc ran the Internation Devious Code Contest of 2013
02:50:39 <shachaf> `learn kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013
02:50:40 <Fiora> http://noctis-aeterna.tumblr.com/post/41490130158/ heh, dailywtfish thing on my dash
02:50:57 <zzo38> shachaf: But I want to omit Unicode because I am not using those functions and just want length to be the C strlen function instead, and so on.
02:51:08 <shachaf> zzo38: You should use Unicode.
02:51:56 <shachaf> Fiora: What's the "æterna" thing?
02:52:22 <Fiora> um, just a person I follow
02:52:54 <Fiora> fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/
02:53:05 <shachaf> Yes. The common theme is "æterna".
02:53:11 <Fiora> that is a total coincidence
02:53:16 <Fiora> she is the only person I follow with that
02:53:21 <shachaf> (I can't resist turning "ae" into "æ".)
02:53:29 <Fiora> I'm too lazy to even try typing that >.>
02:54:16 <elliott> its the angry version of the alt key
02:54:26 <shachaf> It's the German version, actually.
02:54:45 <shachaf> Fiora: Set your keyboard layout to "altgr-intl" or something.
02:55:26 <Fiora> alt-z just makes a z
02:55:27 <Bike> You can type important words like "hellørjan" with ease!
02:55:27 <zzo38> But I don't want it with Unicode. I want it to treat it as C strings, without having to check every byte to see how to calculate length and so on.
02:55:51 <Bike> Fiora: altgr is right alt in certain keyboard layouts, like us international (but apparently not yours)
02:56:03 <Fiora> right alt just does the same
02:56:18 <zzo38> What is UCS-2.625?
02:56:19 <shachaf> I heard that if your right alt key isn't AltGr, it makes you racist.
02:56:26 <Bike> yes, because you have a different keyboard layout
02:56:37 <Bike> default american layouts often don't have altgr.
02:56:37 <shachaf> zzo38: Storing 3 21-bit Unicode code points in one 64-bit word.
02:56:52 <Fiora> um, I don't know what my main layout is but the alternate one is a japanese IME
02:57:15 <Bike> It's probably just "US" or something on Windows.
02:57:15 <Fiora> ummmm I'm using windows
02:57:32 <Bike> You can switch pretty easily with the control panel, especially if you've done it before for japanese.
02:58:00 <shachaf> I'm not sure Windows has the right layout by default?
02:58:11 <Bike> windows usually uses some boring american one, yeah.
02:58:17 <zzo38> shachaf: But I want to diable Unicode entirely. (So that, UTF-8 text could still be stored in the database, but the program ignores it, and those fields may be used by other programs though.)
02:58:21 <Bike> instead of the slightly less boring american one that is US-international.
02:58:48 <shachaf> zzo38: Just store things as binary blobs.
02:59:00 <shachaf> US-international with deadkeys is evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!
02:59:30 <zzo38> shachaf: Well yes, I could store them as blob formats but then it isn't used with SQL strings and null-terminated strings and so on.
03:00:59 <zzo38> Anyways, UTF-8 can be up to 36-bits (even though Unicode is only 21-bits), in case 21-bits is not enough.
03:02:32 <zzo38> Actually if 0xFF is also defined then maybe you can have more than 36-bits
03:04:10 <Lumpio-> But if you don't use Unicode, how can I use Chinese text?
03:06:15 <zzo38> This specific program I am making is not meant for Chinese text, as it wouldn't be useful in what I am making. (You can still store Chinese text in the database, though, if you want to use the same database with other programs.)
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03:11:40 <zzo38> In some other programs I may make, you might want to use Chinese texts and so on, though. So, in a later version of TeXnicard I plan to add an option for UTF-8, but only decoding into 32-bit numbers (even beyond range of Unicode), ignoring everything else about Unicode and requiring the template file to have stuff to deal with the ones you are using.
03:24:19 <pikhq> でも、中国語のテキストがとても必要な事！
03:25:29 <Lumpio-> zzo38: Why do you hate the Chinese? That's racist.
03:25:52 <pikhq> Bike: Japanese "lol".
03:30:29 <zzo38> Lumpio-: I don't hate the Chinese.
03:30:40 <kmc> wu america
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03:41:32 <Sgeo> Naruto treats copying an opponents moves exactly as a good thing. But in Go, there are ways to defeat an opponent who attempts that
03:44:48 <Lumpio-> I watched it when it came out, and man it was sslooooowww
03:45:40 <Lumpio-> It's like, "Episode 14: Clash on the Bridge!! Exciting Battle!!!" and the episode consists of characters surrounded by mist, not being able to see anything, and contemplating their next strategy out loud for 23 minutes.
03:46:29 <Sgeo> That's the thing that bothers me, the continuous contemplation and exposition out loud, in front of enemies, wasting time
03:46:47 <Sgeo> (As in, the enemy should be killing them. Or if the enemy is talking, they should be killing the enemy)
03:47:01 <Lumpio-> But they can't kill anyone if it's not their turn. Never played a JRPG?
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03:48:48 <Lumpio-> Anyways when you get bored of that, get some deep and philosophical anime meant for adults like K-on
03:48:59 <Bike_> sgeo, it's almost like they have an animation budget.
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03:52:03 <monqy> almost like their target audience ?????? ??????
03:52:21 <HackEgo> The friehndshihp mohnqy ihs ahn ahnciehnt Chihnehse myhstehry; ahsk ihtihduhs21 fohr dehtaihls.
03:52:30 <shachaf> oh no are you disapproving
03:52:41 <Sgeo> so many anime I need to watch
03:52:47 <Sgeo> Haven't heard of K-on
03:52:58 <monqy> it's a deep philisophical audience for adults
03:53:29 <Lumpio-> The sooner you learn to direct your interests only towards cute girls doing cute things the better
03:53:35 <Fiora> It's a show about {4,5} moe high school girls acting cute while taking part in a _____ club
03:53:48 * Fiora loves how many anime she just described
03:53:52 <monqy> philosophy club philosophy club
03:53:58 <Bike_> who's the fifth WHO'S THE FIFTH
03:54:13 <shachaf> monqy: can you tell me a story about {4,5} monoids
03:54:21 <Sgeo> Suzumiya Haruhi has all of that except there are boys too
03:54:23 <monqy> they talk about sartre and nietzsche and stuff
03:54:42 <kmc> i want a god that stays dead, not plays dead
03:55:30 <shachaf> i hate monoids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03:55:47 <Lumpio-> Truly good shows do away with unneeded male characters altogether
03:56:12 <monqy> how about the unneeded female characters too
03:56:14 <shachaf> Truly good shows do away with both unneeded male and female characters
03:56:20 <shachaf> I mean, if they're unneeded, who needs 'em?
03:56:24 <monqy> unneeded farm animals
03:56:26 <monqy> unneeded zoo animals
03:56:29 <monqy> unneeded wild animals
03:56:41 <monqy> unneeded fungi?????
03:56:51 <Bike_> That just reminds me of the Japanese evacuation of Manchuria.
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03:57:21 <Fiora> Lumpio-: but if they did that, there'd be none left to be generic useless protagonists!
03:57:22 <monqy> the truly good show is one you experience when detached from the binds of conciousness
03:57:32 <Lumpio-> Who needs protagonists when we can have slice of life
03:57:47 <Lumpio-> If there's a male protagonist it's probably a lame light novel/eroge adaptation
03:57:49 <Sgeo> Does Suzumiya Haruhi count as slice of life?
03:57:55 <Sgeo> It can get a bit slice-of-life-y at times
03:58:15 <Lumpio-> I mean there's like, a plot
03:58:18 <Fiora> It's mainly a light novel adaptation that's somewhat less bad than the usuals
03:58:36 <Lumpio-> Well it's a relatively "old" light novel adaptation so
03:58:41 <Bike> And the same episode seven times!
03:58:42 <shachaf> Fiora: What's novel about it?
03:58:44 <Lumpio-> The shit they've been putting out for the last five years defies understanding
03:58:52 <Fiora> shachaf: is that a pun ~_~
03:58:53 <Lumpio-> Bike: I thought it was eight
03:58:58 <Lumpio-> Then again I never watched that.
03:59:05 <Fiora> Lumpio-: jphinano.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/all-light-novels-are-the-same/ you'd like this post XD
03:59:06 <shachaf> Fiora: Every single thing I say in IRC is a pun.
03:59:13 <Bike> Lumpio-: "important"
03:59:14 <shachaf> Most of them are so well-hidden you never catch on.
03:59:34 <monqy> shachaf: is that a pun
03:59:46 <Lumpio-> oh, light novel title time?
04:00:09 <monqy> shachaf: do you understand this "animes" thing, do you have a pun about it
04:00:15 <Lumpio-> https://twitter.com/ln_title_bot
04:00:45 <shachaf> monqy: yes but "its advanced"
04:00:49 <Fiora> wait. are those actual titles?
04:01:07 <Lumpio-> The links are cover pictures.
04:01:09 <shachaf> monqy: you might have to level up before you can "get" it
04:01:16 <Bike> "The little sister is a dragon and the older brother is prematurely balding" i dunno, this seems pretty good
04:01:26 <Lumpio-> Also if you google any of the Japanese titles you'll see they're available on Amazon.
04:01:45 <Fiora> "I've become a character in an otome game"
04:02:02 <Lumpio-> 悪に堕ちたら美少女まみれで大勝利!! | Who cares if I'm the bad guy? Fuck yeah, I got bitches | http://minus.com/lrgyzxBOicuL
04:02:04 <Fiora> "The ultimate girlfriend has black hair and glasses" I really don't think that narrows it down much mr. MC
04:02:05 <Lumpio-> This translation is the best
04:02:10 <Bike> http://i3.minus.com/ibvxzBUsgG1IfP.jpg Where the fuck is the balding?
04:02:12 <monqy> these titles are bad
04:02:19 <pikhq> These translations are inspired.
04:02:28 <Lumpio-> Bike: Can't you see the guy holding onto his wig?
04:02:31 <monqy> Bike: i think he's covering it
04:02:47 <Bike> Uh what kind of cover is it if the title isn't completely superfluous??
04:03:00 <Fiora> Isn't it like, a standard LN thing now to have titles that have nearly nothing to do with the content?
04:03:15 <Lumpio-> It's also standard to make the titles ridiculously long sentences instead of real titles
04:03:15 <monqy> i'm not well versed on this ln nonsense but it sounds bad
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04:03:34 <Bike> oh this one has a girl in bondage on the cover
04:03:47 <Lumpio-> Like, in English, not "Generic little sister", but "It turned out that my little sister is generic, or so I've heard"
04:04:09 <pikhq> monqy: A "light novel" is basically a relatively easy to read novel. Generally the target audience is teenagers and young adults.
04:04:11 <Bike> again, that actually seems like it could be pretty good
04:04:23 <Lumpio-> Also they've got pictures.
04:04:23 <pikhq> Some of them are quite good. A ton of them are crappy.
04:04:25 <Bike> Maybe some kind of PKD-ish thing about a guy discovering his little sister is a clone.
04:04:29 <Fiora> Light novels are like young adult novels, often with some pictures and stuff
04:04:30 <Lumpio-> So you only need to actually read a fraction of the pages.
04:04:36 <Bike> And you have to wonder whether the narrator is actually just delusional.
04:04:41 <pikhq> That's not a defining attribute, but yes, many of them have illustrations.
04:04:50 <Bike> hypothesis: about 13% of japanese culture is actually pkd with more porn
04:04:50 <Fiora> but in recent years there's been a massive flood of terrible light novels
04:05:03 <Fiora> which seem to all be some combination of a little sister fetish and harems
04:05:12 <Fiora> possibly aiming at anime adaptations (???)
04:05:14 <monqy> little sister harems??? it could happen
04:05:26 <pikhq> Quite likely. Little sister harem anime is a thing.
04:05:29 <Fiora> Lumpio-: jphinano.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/just-as-expected-my-light-novel-list-wasnt-wrong-after-all/
04:05:44 <Bike> " My little sister attracts other women and I am suffering" this should be about magnets.
04:05:47 <myndzi> it already exists probably, but not in the true sense of the word 'harem' ;P
04:05:47 <pikhq> And "being done before" doesn't stop anime from happening.
04:06:00 <pikhq> myndzi: "harem anime" doesn't really, so.
04:06:12 <myndzi> someone could crank it up to 11
04:06:21 <Bike> "Anubis! This is how I became the strongest death worm" and this could be about a mongolian death worm trying to make his way in a world that treats him as a cryptid.
04:06:23 <Fiora> "I cannot explain why my girlfriend has ears and a tail" the cover of the book has a girl with neither [animal] ears or a tail
04:06:29 <myndzi> "Little Sister Factory" D:
04:06:32 <Bike> imo we should have more anime about caliphate infighting?
04:06:44 <monqy> Fiora: maybe that's why he can't explain it
04:06:58 <Bike> the closest thing i know is Otoyomegatari which isn't really close at all
04:07:02 <monqy> no he's just delusional
04:07:06 <Bike> central asia ftw
04:07:13 <myndzi> a delusion is fine too
04:07:25 <Bike> http://i1.minus.com/ibekVQokOfX3Pw.jpg Um hello, no death worms??
04:07:32 <Bike> I like "Anuvis", however. Good romanization.
04:07:56 <pikhq> It's... The only accurate one from the kana.
04:07:58 <Bike> Actually, how was that pronounced in Ancient Egypt, I wonder. Do we even know much about Egyptian vocals? Did they write rhyming poetry?
04:08:08 <shachaf> monqy: should i read "death note"
04:08:13 <monqy> maybe they're death worms that can transform into little girls
04:08:17 <pikhq> It's actually "anuvisu" there. (anuùīsu)
04:08:20 <monqy> little girls that can transform into death worms
04:08:23 <Bike> "Anubis" is probably hilariously inaccurate itself, given Europe's history with well everything.
04:08:32 <Bike> monqy: no, the first one is better.
04:08:33 <monqy> shachaf: idk if you want
04:08:54 <Bike> "Shotgun Detective", now here's an anime
04:09:00 <monqy> Bike: i was also thinking maybe that girl is eating the death worms, but they're radioactive death worms so
04:09:09 <Bike> http://i5.minus.com/iYCtfBznaBzBP.jpg wow fuck nevermind
04:09:20 <monqy> looks anime alright
04:09:24 <monqy> put some clothes on lady
04:09:41 <myndzi> > anime about searching for shotguns
04:09:43 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `anime'Not in scope: `about'Not in scope: `searching'Not in s...
04:09:45 <Fiora> escher light novels http://minus.com/l20WYOO1tvaBa
04:09:50 <Bike> how do you fuck up "Shotgun Detective"? All you need is a detective with a shotgun, and you have gold. Did you learn nothing from Shotgun Ninja?!
04:09:52 <monqy> where's that guy's uhh
04:10:03 <monqy> like magnifying glass, goofy hat, bubble pipe
04:10:10 <Bike> No, no, he's modern.
04:10:14 <Bike> It's all in the trenchcoat.
04:10:14 <Lumpio-> Who needs those when you have a shotgun
04:10:26 <Bike> Fiora: still like the sulfufic acid there
04:11:18 <Lumpio-> Bike: That's the illustrator's name.
04:11:30 <kmc> you can use a shotgun as a pipe
04:11:31 <kmc> in a pinch
04:11:48 <Lumpio-> But can you use one as a magnifying glass or goofy hat
04:12:00 <kmc> YOU MAY LIKE TO KNOW THAT SELFLOADING KARBIN OF SIMONOV TYPE IS COMPLETE SISTEMA FOR SMOKE DOPE, IN ADDITION TO RIFLE FOR KILL ENEMIES OF PARTY.
04:12:02 <Bike> A shotgun would make for a pretty goofy hat.
04:12:04 <monqy> maybe it transforms
04:12:27 <Fiora> Bike: my headcanon is that it's really what the artist used to bend her spine line that
04:12:56 <monqy> i think there are more practical concerns at play there
04:13:00 <Bike> I don't think acid would help there.
04:13:02 <monqy> like attracting young male readers
04:13:05 <Bike> Well, not that kind of acid, anyway.
04:13:16 <Fiora> you could like, eat through bone with it? I dunno
04:13:35 <Bike> Then it would have to be formaldehyde
04:13:45 <monqy> once the book's written she's not needed so they off her
04:13:51 <monqy> pose her all pretty for the covershot
04:14:00 <Bike> it's so easy to make this bullshit into mildly interesting premises, fuck
04:14:22 <Fiora> " Schroedinger's Cat-Ears Girl"
04:14:54 <Bike> Fiora: http://i4.minus.com/irp3jEbulk07z.jpg thinking this might deserve an escher girls submission
04:15:04 <Bike> her hips just kind of evaporated
04:15:23 <Fiora> they somehow avoided the temptation to show even more of her upper body though
04:16:36 <Bike> "MummyPoko! ~One day, I awoke as a Mongolian Death Worm.~"
04:17:00 <monqy> maybe they killed her but they killed her a bit too hard and when they reconstructed her her butt was in the wrong place, woops
04:17:21 <monqy> deadlines, budgets, it'll have to do
04:17:56 <Bike> http://i7.minus.com/ibk8GEDK3vjCgZ.jpg Oh, hey, they put up that one ABe illustrated.
04:18:20 <monqy> negative happy chainsaw edge?
04:18:21 <Lumpio-> Negative happy! Chainsaw edge
04:18:58 <Bike> Yeah, it's by the same guy as Welcome to the NHK, if you've heard of that. 's about crazy people
04:19:15 <Lumpio-> I can't remember the guy's name
04:19:28 <Lumpio-> NHK wasn't a light novel though was it, it was liek a proper book
04:19:51 <Bike> Fiora: like i said, abe.
04:19:56 <Fiora> oh riiiight he's... yeah
04:20:01 * Fiora bad with names @_@
04:20:05 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NHKlightnovel.JPG he did NHK too.
04:20:14 <Bike> ABe I can remember because it's three letters and he writes it dumb.
04:20:40 <Lumpio-> So how long until my misaki comes to save me .__.
04:20:57 <Bike> you read NHK really weirdly
04:21:24 <Bike> oh. well, she's fucking crazy.
04:21:30 <Lumpio-> And my brain filtered out the bad parts
04:21:47 <Lumpio-> I did listen to some guy's lecture about the book at a convention though.
04:22:00 <Lumpio-> They must've toned it down a *lot* for the manga and even more for the animated adaptation
04:22:08 <monqy> some guy's lecture
04:22:11 <Bike> Yeah, they cut out all the cocaine.
04:22:29 <HackEgo> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot
04:22:41 <Bike> "The perverted gentleman with a ten-meter diameter" ok, i'm done after this, nothing can beat this
04:24:45 <Lumpio-> *Although* that probably was never published. Just appeared in the list of finalists for a competition or something.
04:25:05 <Lumpio-> ...also to be exact that's a ten-meter radius not a diameter ¬u¬
04:26:28 <pikhq> Yeah, I was wondering about that.
04:27:13 <Lumpio-> But it does sound much better in English the other way
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04:28:41 <HackEgo> Ahn ohbjehct ihs juhst sohmehthihng ihn a cahtehgohry.
04:29:13 <shachaf> Shouldn't that say "an object is just an object in a category of objects" or something?
04:34:13 <shachaf> monqy: imo it was a pretty bad point
04:34:28 <monqy> i said "good point" but i meant "bad point"
04:34:50 <shachaf> sometimes you say one thing but mean another thing
04:35:32 <shachaf> "caught in ur own web of lies"
04:35:49 <shachaf> monqy: Have I ever made a good point? :-(
04:36:57 <shachaf> what about the time when i was all like
04:38:03 <Fiora> "I'll show you how to be a nerd if you go out with me!" still cannot even this twitter
04:38:39 <kmc> "George's father tries to promote COBOL at SF startups. Kramer accidentally joins the R7RS working group."
04:40:23 <shachaf> are there any words that rhyme with monoid
04:41:26 <shachaf> marvin the paranoid monoid
04:42:07 <shachaf> I don't think any of these are rhymes. :-(
04:52:19 <shachaf> `run > bin/quonoid echo quote monoid; chmod +x bin/quonoid
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05:18:28 <Sgeo> How many times are things going to be re-explained in this series? (Naruto)
05:19:42 <HackEgo> brainfuck \ ais523 \ oregon \ ehird \ fungot \ mad \ coppro \ monad \ d-module \ heck \ phantom__________hoover \ monoids \ homestuck \ lifthrasiir \ ievan \ wiki \ wisdom \ parsley \ coffee \ pizza \ footnote 8 \ taneb \ bike \ atrix \ banach-tarski \ you \ intercal \ boily \ lens \ phantom___hoover \ hexham \ irc \ ø \ helsinki \ devious \ kalli
05:20:06 <HackEgo> Pihzza ihs a kihnd ohf rhuhbahrb pie mahde wihthouht rhuhbahrb.
05:20:45 <HackEgo> Hehck ihs whehre you ehnd uhp ihf you dohn't behliehve ihn Gohsh.
05:20:56 <HackEgo> Hohmehstuhck ihs a cuhlt rehlihgiohn fohr dihsahffehctehd teehns. Gahmzee drihvehs the buhs.
05:21:52 <HackEgo> Hehlsihnki ihs the cahpihtahl ohf Fihnlahnd. Ihts maihn suhbuhrb ihs Hehxhahm, Nohrthuhmbehrlahnd.
05:21:56 <HackEgo> lifthrasiir \ burma \ välkommen \ atriq \ ievan \ irc \ bonvenon \ structural subtyping \ phantom___hoover \ cyberiad \ scotland \ oklopol \ gaszpacho \ d-module \ the us \ misspellings of croissant \ devious \ quote \ you \ gaspacho \ the them \ hagb4rd \ ☃ \ norway \ ngevd \ egobot \ footnote 8 \ pietbot \ flagpole \ fungot \ itidus19 \ coppro
05:22:10 <HackEgo> Piehtboht ihs the ohnly thihng thaht cahn dehfeaht fuhngoht.
05:22:16 <HackEgo> The UhS ihs the couhntry ohppohsehd to the THEhM.
05:30:28 <zzo38> Do you know if foreign keys referencing other files are allowed in SQLite?
05:30:46 <quintopia> maybe the regex should be two regexes
05:31:08 <quintopia> so the US becomes UHS and THEM becomes THEHM
05:31:31 <Sgeo> What do uS and Us turn into?
05:32:16 <fungot> Bike: the best acid? where is it?
05:32:17 <HackEgo> fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone.
05:32:24 <Sgeo> Whatever you think of Naruto, the music is good
05:32:42 <shachaf> fungot: kmc would be the person to ask
05:32:42 <fungot> shachaf: that paper ( clinger's) has a very precise meaning in c or even c++' useless
05:40:19 <kmc> i do not know
05:42:46 <shachaf> What about just good acid?
05:43:08 <kmc> i mean i know some people who might know
05:43:10 <kmc> but i do not know
05:43:23 <kmc> acid is not, how you say, efficient market commodity
05:45:59 <shachaf> What about hydrochloric acid?
05:49:26 <kmc> `addquote <fungot> Bike: the best acid? where is it?
05:49:27 <fungot> kmc: what are flow info and scope id). if police is sent to irc" without realizing other stuff is fixed :))
05:49:30 <HackEgo> 939) <fungot> Bike: the best acid? where is it?
05:49:41 <kmc> fungot: you have to tell me if you're a cop
05:49:42 <fungot> kmc: he left, never to any other. green tabasco sauce and fnord. they work " well enough" and abysmal more like " wow, cool, you can try
05:50:31 <fungot> kmc: it seems to have stabilized at fnord iterations and isn't really assignment, it gives you a 3d woman
05:50:53 <fungot> kmc: try reading the appropriate documentation, fez??? for the lower-case alphabet bit?
05:51:01 <Bike> yeah, fez, what the hell
05:51:29 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
05:51:36 <fungot> shachaf: advice 11903 for edw: i am gavino.
05:51:52 <fungot> shachaf: then you'll get to that collapse point fnord the z3 was the tc one. native speakers.
05:54:55 <fungot> shachaf: well, i was mostly fighting with this encoding stuff fnord was never published in english, i can't say, on the fly then outputs it
05:55:06 <fungot> shachaf: or did i just wipe everything outside of /proc, should you happen to feel coherent right now? just experimenting with my graph version, stacks and numbers are very different
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06:16:14 <Jafet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator_safety
06:16:33 <Sgeo> "Also, if you get killed, everything is lost"
06:16:45 <Sgeo> I guess the Narutoverse hasn't heard of having a bus factor of >1
06:16:58 <shachaf> Have they heard of monoids?
06:16:58 <Sgeo> ...then again, neither have some software projects, including VP
06:17:25 <HackEgo> nahruhtohvehrse? ¯\(°_o)/¯
06:17:40 <Bike> `learn narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1.
06:20:06 <Jafet> `run sed -e 's/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./' wisdom/narutoverse
06:20:07 <HackEgo> narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus.
06:20:20 <Jafet> `run sed -ie 's/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./' wisdom/narutoverse
06:20:28 <Bike> Like the shorter and more familiar strings of stringed musical instruments, the cable of a space elevator has a natural resonant frequency.
06:23:47 <HackEgo> spahce ehlehvahtohr? ¯\(°_o)/¯
06:24:52 <kmc> fungot elevator
06:24:53 <fungot> kmc: right. a minor third has a ratio of fnord :d
06:24:57 <shachaf> fungot: what's chicago like
06:24:57 <fungot> shachaf: i support riastradh's requests for more parens as well. to prove the compliance
06:25:07 <Bike> `run echo "Like the shorter and more familiar strings of stringed musical instruments, the cable of a space elevator has a natural resonant frequency." >"wisdom/space elevator"
06:25:16 <Bike> `?hh space elevator
06:25:18 <HackEgo> Lihke the shohrtehr ahnd mohre fahmihliahr strihngs ohf strihngehd muhsihcahl ihnstruhmehnts, the cahble ohf a spahce ehlehvahtohr hahs a nahtuhrahl rehsohnahnt frehquehncy.
06:28:01 <kmc> shachaf did you get the crypto puzzles yet
06:28:33 <shachaf> No, I haven't sent an email.
06:29:06 <shachaf> I guess they're "that good"
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08:49:17 <Sgeo> Does Parsec assume a single correct unique parsing?
09:16:14 * Sgeo manages to do what he needs without Parsec
09:17:00 <monqy> was it an interesting thing
09:18:35 <Sgeo> Well, it was difficult for me, so I guess that's interesting?
09:19:07 <monqy> did you write a parser by hand
09:25:43 <shachaf> monqy: Are covariant proxies useful?
09:26:17 <shachaf> I can't think of any use for them off-hand.
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09:34:56 <monqy> you know there's a reason why parsy things exist right
09:35:00 <monqy> it's because writing parsers by hand is dumb
09:36:23 <shachaf> monqy: what if i want a streaming parser!!
09:36:38 <monqy> get someone to write a parsy thing for those, then use that
09:36:52 <Sgeo> I tried to use Parsec but it ate my memory
09:36:54 <shachaf> monqy: please write a parsy thing for those
09:37:10 <monqy> Sgeo: did you make a memory leaking infinite loop
09:37:11 <Sgeo> Also I don't know if the specs even had a unique parsing
09:38:37 <Sgeo> As a matter of fact there is not.
09:38:46 <Sgeo> There are strings that can validly be parsed multiple ways.
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09:39:55 <monqy> does your hand-written parser assume a single correct unique parsing ?
09:40:05 <shachaf> Sgeo: can i recommend monoids
09:40:14 <Sgeo> monqy, no it doesn't.
09:40:35 <monqy> ps what does it mean to "assume" a single correct unique parsing
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10:00:38 <Sgeo> GHCi is not very easy to interrupt when you do something dumb
10:03:28 <zzo38> Sgeo: I think you are correct.
10:10:07 <zzo38> I made some changes to the SQLite command shell. Now there is the command .virtual to create an empty virtual table module so that you can create virtual tables for use with other programs, and .extract command to extract blob data from SELECT statements to an external file, and the blobfile(...) function to read an external file.
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13:33:48 <HackEgo> zzo38 ihs noht ahctuahlly the nehxt vehrsiohn ohf fuhngoht, muhch ahs iht may seehm.
13:33:58 <fungot> shachaf: i mean, he has the materials with which to fiddle now? great! it is a top-level or body form, or so
13:34:07 <fungot> shachaf: i cannot possibly fathom why one would want to do ( source foo) or something
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13:34:19 <shachaf> i cannot either, fungot. i cannot either
13:34:19 <fungot> shachaf: the decryption part isn't correct, is unhelpful, i guess. ( but i guess it could be a movie :-s
13:34:55 <shachaf> Oh, that's good. "g'dachaf".
13:35:07 <HackEgo> oehrjahn: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.)
13:35:27 <shachaf> `run wehlcohme oerjan | sed s/dahl/dal/g # for you
13:35:28 <HackEgo> oehrjahn: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dal.neht.)
13:37:33 <oerjan> <zzo38> However, there is already the problem, since there is no SQLITE_OMIT_UNICODE. <-- once again, zzo38 is thwarted in his attempt to avoid unicode
13:50:29 <Taneb> I could probably tell the time by what's on my Tumblr dashboard
13:51:01 <shachaf> Time to log out of Tumblr?
13:51:41 <Taneb> It's Adventure Time with hints of Team Fortress 2 and Homestuck
13:51:51 <shachaf> http://www.tumblr.com/logout
13:52:25 <shachaf> There's always http://www.tumblr.com/account/delete if you're serious about logging out
13:57:53 <shachaf> It's the only cure to the thing.
13:58:59 <oerjan> <Bike> Maybe some kind of PKD-ish thing about a guy discovering his little sister is a clone. <-- polycystic kidney disease is no laughing matter.
14:01:14 * oerjan thinks philip k. dick may fit better.
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14:26:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf: not found
14:27:11 <Taneb> Is the GBP based on a banknote standard
14:32:10 <oerjan> elliott: so you're on a roll?
14:32:12 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
14:33:09 <oerjan> `run echo " He is also tire." >>wisdom/elliott
14:33:23 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? \ He is also tire.
14:33:28 <elliott> are you suggesting the other information was useful
14:34:07 <oerjan> `run sed -i -e 1N -e 's/\n//' wisdom/elliott
14:34:14 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire.
14:35:22 <oerjan> `run echo test | sed -e 's/te/o/;s/st/k/'
14:36:39 <HackEgo> y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
14:37:15 <oerjan> `run yes | head -10 | sed -e '1,$N;s/\n//'
14:37:50 <mroman> Can I use regex to replace matched brackets?
14:38:13 <mroman> It would have to replace the inner brackets first.
14:38:47 <mroman> maybe I don't need that.
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14:42:00 <HackEgo> yxynaxen: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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14:46:21 <olsner> wrong kind of esoteric, I guess
14:50:08 <mroman> http://codepad.org/mWNt1mGS
14:50:18 <mroman> That wasn't even that difficult.
14:52:44 <mroman> now I just need . and , too
14:54:44 <oerjan> writing bf in regexps may be a little hard.
14:55:23 <ais523> elliott: PCRE can also match brackets in regexps
14:55:33 <ais523> it's not identical to perl regexp, but it does include the necessary features
14:55:53 <ais523> I'm not sure if Perl knew what they'd created when they added (??{})
14:56:07 <ais523> the documentation said that they were adding the feature to see what happened
14:56:20 <ais523> and then when they realised people were using it to write recursive regexps, they added an explicit recursion operator
14:56:28 <ais523> PCRE doesn't have (??{}), but it does have the recursion operator
14:56:52 <Taneb> I'm gonna actually learn what a D-module is
14:57:24 <ais523> I wonder how populated the dalnet #esoteric is
14:57:30 <ais523> and how much of its traffic we're responsible for
14:57:31 <Taneb> A ring is like something with addition and multiplication
14:57:42 <ais523> I've been working with semirings a lot
14:57:46 <ais523> a semiring has addition and multiplication
14:57:57 <ais523> a ring has subtraction and division too (apart from division by 0)
14:59:08 <Taneb> A ring of differential operators would be a ring where the numbers are differential operators, right?
14:59:30 <ais523> oerjan: I think it has multiplicative inverses, right?
14:59:38 <oerjan> no. that's a division ring.
14:59:39 <olsner> multiplicative inverness
14:59:49 <ais523> I only work with semirings
14:59:56 <ais523> none of this subtraction nonsense
15:00:25 <oerjan> Taneb: except they don't call them numbers afaik.
15:01:27 <elliott> Taneb: the technical term is "thingies"
15:01:41 <Taneb> `learn Inverness is a city in Scotland. The ring road isn't multiplicative.
15:03:03 <oerjan> "elements", if you must.
15:04:04 <oerjan> `echo "Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them." >wisdom/ring
15:04:05 <HackEgo> "Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them." >wisdom/ring
15:04:08 <oerjan> `run echo "Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them." >wisdom/ring
15:04:22 <HackEgo> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
15:04:33 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf_textgen: not found
15:04:46 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bfgen: not found
15:04:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf_txtgen: not found
15:05:04 <EgoBot> 56 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.---.+++++++..+++.>++. [241]
15:06:58 <oerjan> `run echo "There are two kinds of fields. Those where you can divide (except by zero), and those where you can conquer." >wisdom/field
15:07:46 <ais523> I'm not quite sure how wisdom ended up full of abstract mathematical concepts
15:08:30 <mroman> or what is that number
15:08:49 <oerjan> probably number of execution steps.
15:09:18 <oerjan> there are only 5 cells.
15:09:22 <ais523> I wonder how much better a bf_txtgen you could make
15:09:27 <mroman> well then I have some nasty bug :(
15:09:35 <EgoBot> 39 ++++++++[>++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.>++. [90]
15:09:40 <ais523> also, what the shortest string is that it's undecidable what the shortest program to output it is
15:10:03 <Taneb> ais523, I think that's undecidable
15:10:23 <ais523> Taneb: yeah, I guess it is, but it still /exists/, despite being undecidable
15:10:36 <ais523> also, it's not necessarily undecidable, it's just not necessarily decidable
15:11:31 <Taneb> My gut is telling me that any string you can write down, the problem of shortest program to output it is decidable, although perhaps difficult to automate
15:12:25 <fizzie> The number in []s is IIRC the generation number.
15:12:43 <fizzie> Related to the algorithm used.
15:12:51 <oerjan> Taneb: my get tells me your gut needs recalibration.
15:13:18 <elliott> Taneb: see kolgomorov complexity.
15:13:36 <elliott> Taneb: also "decidable but difficult to automate" is kind of incoherent...
15:14:04 <Taneb> My gut isn't very good at this
15:14:22 <ais523> Taneb: I disagree, I'd be surprised if it were more than, say, 510 characters (the length of an IRC line)
15:14:25 <ais523> and may well be a lot shorter
15:14:37 <mroman> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burlesque#Brainfuck_Interpreter
15:14:44 <mroman> I must have been bored today :)
15:14:59 <FreeFull> The thing about kolgomorov complexity is that you can only get an upper bound
15:15:03 <elliott> hmm, what happened to that halting analysis of BF programs we were going to do?
15:15:12 <elliott> I forget what the purpose was
15:15:24 <elliott> oh, we were trying to find the shortest BF program s.t. we didn't know whether it halted or not
15:15:31 <ais523> yeah, that sounds like an interesting problem
15:15:38 <elliott> by way of exhaustive search with a partial halting checker, and solving the ones it couldn't by hand, until we got stock
15:15:48 <ais523> elliott: that's how Wolfram found the 2,3 machine
15:16:07 <ais523> not in terms of a halting checker, but in terms of finding a pattern that his program couldn't predict
15:16:12 <elliott> ais523: I bet you actually mean "someone Wolfram knew" though :P
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15:16:25 <ais523> elliott: that's the sort of thing he usually did himself, actually
15:16:29 <ais523> just massive brute force searches
15:16:35 <ais523> he left proofs up to other people, though
15:16:50 <elliott> ais523: people like Alex Smith
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15:17:05 <ais523> (possibly for the best: one of the only proofs I think he did himself is both very short, and incorrect)
15:17:14 <ais523> (I managed to fix it, but didn't write the fix down)
15:17:22 * FreeFull looks at the 2,3 machine universality proof
15:17:47 <elliott> FreeFull: imo that proof is lame and the author stinks
15:17:56 <elliott> good thing they're not in #esoteric
15:18:40 <ais523> I've concluded that the proof is definitely correct, but there's quite some valid debate about what it actually proves
15:19:04 <ais523> and don't want to resubmit it to the journal until I've figured out what it is I'm trying to prove
15:19:13 * ais523 mentions http://esolangs.org/wiki/1cnis
15:19:24 <ais523> but I'm not convinced it actually solves the problem, for two different reasons
15:19:58 <elliott> ais523: oh, did they give up on accepting it?
15:21:25 <ais523> they're still trying to get me to correct for their feedback and resubmit
15:21:35 <ais523> I want a paper that will satisfy other people too, though, rather than just them
15:22:19 <oerjan> he'll get it fixed just after implementing feather, don't you worry
15:24:15 <elliott> oerjan: I think that's GreyKnight's job now.
15:25:06 <Taneb> mroman, try writing a brainfuck interpreter in Fueue
15:27:50 <ais523> oerjan: you can blame the wolfram people for killing my motivation to work on it
15:28:30 <oerjan> ah. then i entirely sympathize.
15:32:24 <oerjan> is not very good at wiki searches
15:32:51 <Taneb> mroman, did you search for Feueu?
15:33:08 <Taneb> Because that doesn't exist and I use to make that mistake every time, and I created Fueue
15:33:14 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue
15:33:32 <ais523> I wrote the URL without even checking to see what the article was called
15:33:42 <ais523> it's not particularly unguessable
15:33:48 <ais523> did you search Wikipedia by mistake/
15:34:07 <oerjan> maybe he seached ehsolahngs.ohrg
15:34:11 <mroman> i'm little bit legasthenic.
15:34:16 <mroman> so I searched for fuefue
15:35:30 <mroman> Taneb: If you write one in underload.
15:35:58 <Taneb> (it's actually hypothetically possible to write a BF interpreter in Fueue)
15:36:16 <Taneb> (although ridiculously difficult)
15:36:24 <Taneb> (Underload lacks the IO capabilities
15:37:31 <mroman> Just put IO somewhere.
15:38:03 <elliott> oerjan: well come to qwerty.com
15:38:29 <elliott> oh i meant to address that to ais523
15:38:36 <elliott> ais523: well come to qwerty.com
15:38:59 <ais523> elliott: why do you want me to "come to" a domain name?
15:39:07 <ais523> normally I'd assume HTTP, but the way that's worded implies it isn't
15:39:39 <elliott> ais523: I was just well coming you!
15:40:38 <ais523> you're complaining about a typo/bad grammar on a website, without sufficient context to make the fact you're doing that clear
15:40:54 * oerjan sees no well come on qwerty.com
15:41:06 <elliott> ais523: wrong again, sorry :(
15:41:21 <elliott> in fact I did not even know what content was hosted on qwerty.com when I sent that line
15:41:26 <ais523> well then I'm going to ignore you
15:41:27 <elliott> though curiosity got the better of me shortly after
15:41:50 <ais523> just, not care about what you said, because I don't understand it
15:41:58 <olsner> hmm, apparently there's number keypad training
15:42:00 <elliott> that sounds like a convenient superpower
15:43:07 <olsner> I wonder if there's a thriving community of people developing alternative numpad layouts somewhere
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15:53:05 <Taneb> Are pointers torsors?
15:54:58 <Taneb> I'm fairly sure I made none of those words up
15:55:21 <Taneb> http://ro-che.info/articles/2013-01-08-torsors.html
15:55:59 <oerjan> oh that sense. then yes.
15:56:09 * oerjan already has seen that article.
15:56:21 <oerjan> ignoring out of bounds errors.
15:57:10 <oerjan> and not being allowed to subtract pointers from different arrays.
15:58:17 <oerjan> that is, pointers are torsors if you treat all of memory as one byte array with wrapping semantics for the addresses.
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15:58:45 <Taneb> Potentially useful for someone who isn't me!
16:01:13 <oerjan> does the memory layout of core war fit? only relative addressing iirc.
16:01:45 <Taneb> I don't know core war well enough to tell you
16:02:04 <oerjan> although i guess that means they _only_ store differences, and have no actual pointers as first class values
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16:20:29 <elliott> @tell kmc http://i.imgur.com/Iyl5fm3.jpg
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16:41:34 <Taneb> "But as mathematicians and security agents made their way to New Jersey, a number of people began to smell something fishy"
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16:42:47 <Taneb> The music of Primes by Marcus du Sautoy
16:43:15 <Taneb> That bit came from a description of an April Fool's prank that went horribly, horribly right
16:47:37 <Taneb> Enrico Bombieri claimed a physicist had solved the Reimann Hypothesis and everyone believed him
16:53:28 <Taneb> Aaargh, I just read "nomadic" as "monadic" and got really confused for a second
16:54:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Oliver Smoot ended up being chairman of both ANSI and ISO.
16:57:29 <Taneb> Was he the guy with the bridge?
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17:17:09 <lambdabot> elliott said 56m 40s ago: http://i.imgur.com/Iyl5fm3.jpg
17:17:30 <kmc> elliott: yeah wtf
17:17:56 <elliott> I like "Klout has created Page Rank for people"
17:18:05 <HackEgo> 755) <elliott_> (help why are german) <monqy> i play the german version of crawl <elliott_> i
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17:19:16 <kmc> it's getting harder to make fun of this stuff, when I say "bro down and crush code" i thought it was a ridiculous overexaggeration
17:19:30 <kmc> that said, the sign is from 2 years ago
17:19:43 <kmc> and they were roundly ridiculed for it then too
17:19:58 <kmc> taking away the moments that make up the dull day
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17:20:20 <Taneb> elliott, I think it's more like a burrito
17:20:32 <Taneb> If you have too much of time you get ill
17:20:37 <Taneb> But damn it felt good
17:21:13 <Taneb> You only get out what you put in, unless your time was made by someone else, which isn't as fun
17:23:02 <ais523> burritos don't work like that!
17:28:59 <kmc> elliott: maybe
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17:32:52 <Taneb> ais523, am I thinking of tacos?
17:34:49 <kmc> elliott: maybe it's unfair to make fun of klout 2 years after they apologized, but on the other hand it does please me that the reputation damage from these things is long lasting
17:37:43 <Phantom_Hoover> "we're sorry we put out ads that made us look like idiots"
17:38:02 <elliott> kmc: isn't there a more fundamental problem in the form of the fact that klout is also inherently such bullshit
17:38:11 <elliott> and therefore deserving of mockery regardless of their recruiting practices anyway!
17:40:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: i assume it was something along the lines of "sorry for putting out a terrible sexist ~brogrammer~ recruitment ad" except less sincere
17:40:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Er, that really doesn't seem like the sort of thing for which a company would issue a direct apology.
17:41:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Unless there was a really massive outcry, in which case they might do a "sorry you were offended".
17:41:21 <elliott> 17:19:30 <kmc> that said, the sign is from 2 years ago
17:41:21 <elliott> 17:19:43 <kmc> and they were roundly ridiculed for it then too
17:41:31 <kmc> http://corp.klout.com/blog/2013/01/moving-past-brogramming/ hm a new post
17:41:31 <elliott> i assume there was at least some kind of outcry involved in that
17:41:35 <kmc> i guess because it's going around again
17:42:05 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: anyway yes "sorry you were offended" is what I meant by "except less sincere"
17:42:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Right but like I said, ridicule doesn't really make for apologies.
17:42:08 <elliott> SORRY YOU MISINTERPRETED ME
17:43:28 <kmc> the say the company is 30% women now, but I would be curious to know about engineering / technical roles
17:44:35 <kmc> anyway i can't find the original apology so sorry
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17:50:05 <elliott> anyway maybe if klout did anything of value I would not mock them
17:50:20 <elliott> though this is my first time I have mocked klout I think!!! a first time for everything
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17:55:43 <kmc> i would still mock them for that poster
17:56:34 <kmc> i've said it before but: startup hackers are allegric to professionalism for the same reason nerds are allergic to sports
17:56:43 <kmc> backlash against a (real or perceived) past aggressor
18:00:02 <Phantom_Hoover> don't worry kmc, we don't expect you to avoid saying something you've said before
18:00:13 <kmc> i like repetition, it is so easy
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18:39:30 <oklopol> "<Taneb> My gut is telling me that any string you can write down, the problem of shortest program to output it is decidable, although perhaps difficult to automate" obviously yes
18:39:50 <oklopol> probably most of them aren't provable in your favorite logic though
18:42:01 <oklopol> ais523: maybe you could prove your machine is p complete?
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18:51:43 <fizzie> Okay, so I fiddled a bit with RRDtool. This is very much work-in-progress, but here's a sneak preview: http://zem.fi/esostats/
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18:51:51 <fizzie> (And off to the sauna. ->)
18:52:12 <oklopol> also what exactly did cook prove?
18:53:01 <elliott> universalislaijelijrlijtylijy or something?
18:54:04 <elliott> fizzie: apparently "z" had a spike of popularity in 2005
18:54:15 <elliott> and "q"s popularity has been steadily increasing over the years
18:54:15 <oklopol> yeah and o had one near 2003
18:54:25 <elliott> with a spike in sep/oct last year
18:55:30 <oklopol> i don't get it, there are clear mathematical definitions for when a set is computationally hard, and then people write these insanely complicated constructions and don't bother to check what they actually prove
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18:55:51 <coppro> oklopol: in what context?
18:55:58 <coppro> estoeric languages or CS generally?
18:57:39 <oklopol> in the context that i just scrolled through the paper that "proves rule 110 is universal", and there is not a single theorem. presumably it does explain what exactly is proven in the text though, i should probably at least read the intro.
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19:00:01 <elliott> oklopol: have you read ais' paper
19:00:03 <ais523> oklopol: hmm, I'm not sure; the problem is the 2,3 machine takes ever expanding memory to accomplish anything (and this is trivially easily provable)
19:01:02 <oklopol> i have many things i should read
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19:02:53 <oklopol> yeah i can't really find what cook's paper proves
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19:05:29 <oklopol> "So one undecidable question is, 'Will the following glider ever appear?'"
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19:06:03 <oklopol> the fuck is that supposed to mean?
19:07:39 <kmc> is the rule 110 proof one of those with a computable but non-repeating initial state?
19:08:14 <elliott> kmc: I think that's just ais523's
19:08:27 <kmc> is the proof still being suppressed by the mathematica secret police?
19:08:42 <oklopol> http://www.complex-systems.com/pdf/15-1-1.pdf
19:08:52 <oklopol> if you can make sense out of that, do tell
19:09:30 <oklopol> http://www.cs.may.ie/~tnaughton/abc/download/dw15.pdf here's p completeness, which actually means somethin
19:13:03 <ais523> kmc: the rule 110 initial state is repeating
19:13:11 <ais523> although not repeating zeros, it's quite a complex repeating pattern
19:15:01 <oklopol> eventually periodic in both direction, that is, of the form ...uuuvwww...?
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19:15:42 <oklopol> so given u, v, w, u', v', w', it is undecidable whether ..uuuvwww... eventually evolves into ...u'u'u'v'w'w'w'...?
19:21:38 <coppro> oklopol: CS academia is stupid
19:22:09 <ais523> oklopol: well, the programmer's point of view is "you're simulating the execution of another program, and anything on that program can be mapped onto this one"
19:22:18 <ais523> I think what you do is you define an easily observable halt state
19:22:27 <ais523> and prove it's undecidable whether that is reached
19:22:40 <ais523> for the rule 110 automaton, it would be of the form "the sequence q doesn't appear anywhere on the tape"
19:22:58 <ais523> the halt state works much more neatly for the 2,3 machine, we use a half-infinite tape
19:23:01 <ais523> falling off the end = halt state
19:26:49 <oklopol> prove it's undecidable whether that is reached from what?
19:27:17 <oklopol> cellular automata have infinite configurations
19:28:19 <oklopol> i agree that from a terrible writer's point of view, it's enough to write the construction, as everyone who reads every last detail of it will know what it does or does not prove.
19:30:32 <oklopol> (which is not what you said, the agreeing was just a common assholing technique)
19:31:20 <ais523> oklopol: actually, I think what you do is, you prove that that configuration is reached if and only if you're encoding a TM that halts into the initial tape
19:31:37 <ais523> at least that's what I did
19:34:10 <oklopol> and that is fine and well once you actually say what kind of initial tapes you have
19:34:31 <oklopol> say, eventually periodic points.
19:35:28 <ais523> oklopol: actually what I was working on before I stopped for the 2,3 proof was a precise definition of what sort of initial tape I had
19:37:41 <oklopol> i have no qualms with you, i have qualms with cook who seems to have a clear problem he has solved but doesn't explain what. you have trouble figuring out what you can solve, that's not laziness, that just means math is being a bitch.
19:38:07 <ais523> oklopol: anyway I didn't resubmit the paper because of that
19:38:20 <ais523> specifically, my situation is that I'm pretty certain I've proved something, just am not sure what
19:41:18 <ais523> re the topic, is goat-time like space-time except with goats instead of space?
19:41:28 <oklopol> is 1cnis enough for your proof?
19:41:58 <oklopol> also are you familiar with substitutions and their fixed points, because i'm wondering if 1cnis has something to do with those
19:52:24 <ais523> oklopol: I don't know if 1cnis is enough
19:52:35 <ais523> that's what I've been "trying to establish" for well over a year now
19:58:05 <ais523> the problem is generating nested loops
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20:18:04 <oklopol> have you looked at fixed points of substitutions?
20:19:07 <oklopol> (i have little knowledge about their computational properties)
20:20:46 <oklopol> they are infinite sequences with a finite description and some sort of nested things.
20:21:06 <ais523> 1cnis is pretty much like that
20:22:57 <oklopol> but i was too lazy to read 1cnis's description for now, perhaps later
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20:45:50 <Sgeo> http://www.thebands.biz/article/simcity-mayor-under-fire-for-excessive-use-of-eminent-domain/
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20:48:17 <AnotherTest> Does anyone know who this guy was that didn't use an actual IRC client but used telnet instead? I remember being told about this by someone.
20:48:50 <kmc> that's annoying because you have to respond to PINGs
20:49:00 <elliott> it's written in php and outputs in coloured raw irc format
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20:56:35 <ais523> AnotherTest: I can IRC through telnet/netcat just fine
20:56:43 <ais523> I normally don't, sometimes I do it when I need a second connection, or just to show off
20:57:31 <ais523> it's really not very hard at all
20:57:41 <ais523> it's like all these old protocols, they were designed to be done by hand I think
20:57:54 <ais523> as well as via clients
20:58:16 <AnotherTest> Yes, for sure. I guess you could even make the PING replies to automagically
20:58:43 <ais523> AnotherTest: that's pretty much what zzo38's client does
20:58:53 <ais523> the other thing you want is a separate echo area for where you're typing
20:59:02 <ais523> it's very distracted for other peoples' lines to appear in the middle of yours
21:00:23 <AnotherTest> Actually, writing an IRC client isn't very hard
21:01:02 <AnotherTest> because some people where asking why anyone would do it
21:04:53 <zzo38> What my client does is if it receives anything, it deletes what you have typed, outputs what it receives, and then puts your input back onto the screen so that you can continue.
21:12:49 <oerjan> <elliott> zzo38? <-- i think Gregor also tried it?
21:13:35 <Gregor> I wrote a raw IRC client.
21:13:38 <Sgeo> help I just arranged to speak with someone about a job and only now noticed that it's on the other side of the country
21:13:44 <Gregor> I still use it now and then.
21:13:48 <Sgeo> (The job, that is. Not where I'd be speaking. It would be a phone conversation)
21:14:20 <Sgeo> Gregor, not necessarily going to move unless it's a really good offer
21:14:34 <Sgeo> Even then.. I feel uneasy with that
21:15:08 <oerjan> Sgeo: aren't you basically pining for an opportunity to become more independent?
21:15:14 <zzo38> Gregor: Is it the one called "rawirc"? I have seen that one, although it lacked some things
21:15:42 <Sgeo> I'm not pining for an opportunity to put a very large distance between me and all of my friends
21:15:47 <Sgeo> And between me and my girlfriend
21:16:24 <oerjan> oh. i keep forgetting people have rl friends. carry on then.
21:16:47 <oerjan> (ok i have one, i think)
21:17:04 <evincar> Sgeo: Can you work remotely and come in to the brick-and-meatsuit office occasionally?
21:17:10 <Gregor> oerjan: I have IRL friends. I live thousands of miles from them.
21:17:36 <Sgeo> evincar, I guess that would be a thing for discussion
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21:17:56 <Sgeo> Except for "All positions are at our Menlo Park, CA location."
21:17:57 <oerjan> Gregor: lady gaga is their suit designer.
21:18:25 <evincar> Well, I moved from New Hampshire to California for a job.
21:18:30 <evincar> And am away from my girlfriend.
21:18:50 <oerjan> Sgeo: maybe you'll meet edison's ghost
21:19:06 <Sgeo> This company seems amazing though https://www.transcriptic.com/
21:19:36 <Sgeo> https://www.transcriptic.com/about/jobs
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21:21:07 <zzo38> Yes, rawirc has no macros, filters, settings, etc; many things it doesn't do, so it seems not a very good IRC client to me
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21:24:20 <pikhq> As I recall, it was more an interesting exercise than anything else.
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21:26:17 <Sgeo> (It doesn't entirely help that I don't know how I feel about my gf)
21:26:39 <Sgeo> Yay let's start ranting about my personal problems in #esoteric publically logged again
21:27:04 <pikhq> I'll just note that long-distance relationships kinda suck.
21:27:29 <pikhq> Not that that should stop you, *but* just accept it'll be a bit of suckitude you have to deal with.
21:27:45 <Sgeo> I feel weird about the idea of staying here if my only reason for doing so was her, especially since I'm still not sure I feel that strongly
21:27:58 <Sgeo> I don't want to make this sort of decision
21:28:19 <Gregor> <Sgeo> Except for "All positions are at our Menlo Park, CA location." // You're complaining about potentially moving to MENLO PARK???
21:28:44 <Sgeo> Wait, what's so great about Menlo Park in particular?
21:28:52 <Gregor> Nothing, but it's the bay area.
21:29:46 <pikhq> So, nothing great about Menlo Park in particular, but it's in the right region of California? K.
21:36:14 -!- Taneb has changed nick to TAaneEb.
21:36:46 -!- TAaneEb has changed nick to Taneb.
21:37:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:40:04 <Sgeo> What's so great about the bay area?
21:40:41 <pikhq> It's programmer Mecca. :P
21:42:48 <Sgeo> Just found an airline price fare comparer thingy
21:43:13 <Sgeo> It apparently works by popups
21:54:55 <evincar> Menlo Park is pretty expensive to live in.
21:55:38 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: lol, that is absolutely delightful.
21:55:40 <evincar> The Caltrain is okay for anything along the main backbone of the peninsula though.
21:55:44 <Gregor> Can't wait for the 9/11 flight simulator.
21:55:53 <evincar> So you don't really need a car.
21:56:09 <evincar> I'm within walking distance of work in a not-too-expensive city though.
21:56:13 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
21:57:32 <evincar> Also does it make sense to implement sum types in terms of union and product?
21:57:41 <Sgeo> It's not like I have a "real" interview yet
21:57:55 <Sgeo> It's just a phone call to talk about my background
21:58:52 <oerjan> evincar: a struct with a tag and a union is more or less the usual implementation, no?
21:59:14 <evincar> oerjan: Yeah just making sure it didn't sound stupid when put in writing.
22:00:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:00:48 <evincar> But I dunno if the tag is really a value or type or what.
22:01:23 <evincar> I mean when it comes to e.g. totality checking.
22:01:37 <evincar> I don't like how in Haskell I can't make an ad-hoc subset of a sum type.
22:02:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:03:00 -!- WeThePeople has joined.
22:03:27 <evincar> E.g. data ABC = A | B | C; a x = case x of { A -> "a"; _ -> bc x }; bc x = case x of { B -> "b"; C -> "c" }
22:04:42 <evincar> bc :: ABC -> String but should :: (B | C) -> String
22:05:19 <evincar> Supersets I'm not as sure about.
22:05:28 <evincar> Because it implies you can mix constructors from different data types.
22:05:32 <zzo38> I did once think of a kind of type system which would allow such things, as well as some other things
22:05:33 <evincar> Or that data types are entirely ad-hoc.
22:05:45 <evincar> Which I'm pretty sure is not decidably inferable.
22:05:53 <oerjan> evincar: i am talking about C structs. i think if you want to express a sum type in a _type safe_ way without building it in as a primitive, then you need dependent typing.
22:05:56 <zzo38> But is different and might not be suitable for all of the same things, and I also don't know if it work.
22:06:19 <elliott> oerjan: (forall r. (a -> r) -> (b -> r) -> r) ~ Either a b
22:06:23 <elliott> or are we disallowing rank-2?
22:06:34 <oerjan> elliott: oh hm i guess
22:06:47 <elliott> that's just your standard church encoding I think
22:06:57 <elliott> (forall r. (a -> b -> r) -> r) gets you (a,b)
22:06:58 <oerjan> evincar: ok so elliott's method works.
22:07:17 <elliott> I have no idea the context, by the way.
22:07:35 <oerjan> elliott: but safely typing the actual struct memory layout you would use in C requires dependent typing, i think.
22:07:41 <evincar> Working on a language. Considering implementing sums in terms of unions & products.
22:08:21 <elliott> oerjan: well, not quite, actually. I think GADTs are enough
22:08:34 <evincar> So pseudocode Maybe a = Nothing \/ (Just, a)
22:08:38 <monqy> evincar: do you mean c unions or are you actually putting something analogous to c unions in your language
22:08:43 <kmc> Menlo Park? fuck the south bay
22:08:49 <kmc> that's like 30 miles from a real city
22:09:05 <elliott> oerjan: data Union a b c where { L :: a -> Union a b a; R :: b -> Union a b b } -- assume a tag-free runtime representation of this type
22:09:22 <evincar> monqy: I mean union types in the type-theory sense.
22:09:32 <Gregor> "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" "Um, 97?" "*whew*, that's a relief. Radar gun's working. Thanks for your cooperation."
22:09:39 <elliott> oerjan: data Tag a b c where { TagL :: Tag a b a; TagR :: TagR a b b }
22:09:45 <evincar> In particular idempotent: a \/ a = a
22:09:53 <elliott> oerjan: data Either a b where { Either :: Tag a b c -> Union a b c -> Either a b }
22:10:02 <kmc> Sgeo: south bay is suburban sprawl, don't make the mistake of thinking that anything in the "SF bay area" is like SF
22:10:16 <elliott> evincar: what do you mean by type theory union and how does it differ from a sum type
22:10:21 <oerjan> evincar: btw i think ocaml has at least one way of treating sum types so that you can do subsets
22:10:47 <Bike> i thought a union type was, like, untagged sum...
22:10:53 <evincar> elliott: Sums are disjoint. I can differentiate the Ints in data AB = A Int | B Int
22:10:56 <monqy> elliott: union and intersection types are a "thing"
22:11:09 <evincar> But could not differentiate them in Int \/ Int because they are the same.
22:11:09 <Bike> set theory all up in this
22:11:21 <monqy> elliott: but imo it's an incredibly dumb dumb dumb foundation
22:11:22 <evincar> If you treat types as sets which you sorta can.
22:11:35 <evincar> It seems really problematic. :(
22:11:37 <Bike> why's it dumb?
22:11:42 <monqy> Bike: have you seen them
22:11:48 <FreeFull> elliott: What does that say? Either is a constructor that takes a Tag and an Union?
22:12:01 <FreeFull> Is that a specialisation, or a general statement?
22:12:04 <kmc> as for "programmer mecca" it's also the epicenter of the worst excesses of hacker culture, an environment which rewards these things rather than providing a reality check
22:12:04 <Bike> monqy: in C I guess
22:12:05 <elliott> and it uses GADT type magic to tie the tag's value and the union's branch together
22:12:09 <elliott> so you can store Union without a tag
22:12:23 <elliott> (this won't happen in practice, but it provides a /typing/ for this C-style sum type construction mechanism)
22:12:37 <elliott> oerjan: Either can be simplified vastly of course
22:12:46 <elliott> oerjan: data Either a b where { Either :: Tag a b c -> c -> Either a b }
22:12:57 <elliott> there you *do* get the effectively "unboxed" representation.
22:13:17 <FreeFull> elliott: What does c represent? The choice between element a and b?
22:13:51 <elliott> if you use TagL, then c is fixed to a
22:13:56 <elliott> if you use TagR, then c is fixed to b
22:14:02 <elliott> Either is an existential type there
22:14:26 <FreeFull> And both TagL and TagR are Tag?
22:15:22 <FreeFull> So would an example usage be Either TagL "something"
22:16:18 <Sgeo> Even without this thing, I still feel weird for gf related reasons
22:16:26 <Sgeo> Pretty sure she loves me much more than I like her
22:16:35 -!- Taneb has joined.
22:18:00 <Sgeo> Yay more Sgeo's personal life
22:19:23 <FreeFull> elliott: What happens if both a and b are the same type?
22:19:39 <Sgeo> Also I should not be discussing my life in a publically logged channel
22:19:45 <elliott> FreeFull: TagL :: Tag Int Int Int; TagR :: Tag Int Int Int
22:19:47 <evincar> It seems like nothing in particular happens.
22:20:03 <elliott> oerjan: oh I guess Tag is sort of a sum type :P
22:20:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, especially one in which your name, university and general area are known.
22:20:20 <elliott> oerjan: but runtime-wise, it's just Bool.
22:20:38 <elliott> as opposed to (Either a b) which has the actual value
22:20:42 <FreeFull> Wait, they're both constructors. Nevermind
22:21:35 <FreeFull> Either TagL x = Left x; Either TagR x = Right x or something
22:24:38 -!- saijanai_ has quit (Quit: saijanai_).
22:30:13 <oerjan> so in principle you could probably split any adt and maybe gadt into gadt parts where each part was essentially a tag (no arguments to constructors) or a product (only one constructor for the gadt)
22:32:03 <monqy> pretty lame principle imo
22:32:18 <elliott> monqy: whats lame about it
22:32:41 <elliott> oerjan: well, you can turn into any gadt into a possibly-existential type given type equality
22:32:45 <elliott> (value or constraint level)
22:32:51 <elliott> so it should work for pretty much anything
22:33:22 <elliott> oerjan: in fact I think my Tag type may be enough to do anything you want
22:35:20 <monqy> elliott: i dont really know how to describe it........maybe its just a bad ol gut feeling
22:35:52 <shachaf> Well, I guess I said it in here too.
22:36:10 <elliott> monqy: well we have a "use-case"
22:36:17 <elliott> i.e. compiling down to C structs/unions
22:41:03 <oerjan> `addquote <elliott> well what is time <elliott> imo: an illusion [...] <Taneb> elliott, I think it's more like a burrito <Taneb> If you have too much of time you get ill <Taneb> But damn it felt good <Taneb> You only get out what you put in, unless your time was made by someone else, which isn't as fun <ais523> burritos don't work like that!
22:41:07 <HackEgo> 940) <elliott> well what is time <elliott> imo: an illusion [...] <Taneb> elliott, I think it's more like a burrito <Taneb> If you have too much of time you get ill <Taneb> But damn it felt good <Taneb> You only get out what you put in, unless your time was made by someone else, which isn't as fun <ais523> burritos don't work like that!
22:41:13 <ais523> oerjan: oh, that reminds me
22:41:29 <ais523> we managed to get the line ", as time itself is only an abstract approximation" into our most recent paper
22:41:37 <ais523> actually my supervisor wrote it and probably didn't realise how profound it sounded
22:42:07 <ais523> not sure if it'll be accepted
22:42:59 <HackEgo> Ohrehgohn ihs the hohme ohf Ohrehgahno. Grehgohr uhsehd to tahke cahre ohf the cohlohr schehme, buht thehn he lehft.
22:43:11 <shachaf> `learn Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano.
22:43:25 <ais523> that won't be funny out of context
22:43:41 <ais523> it's not particularly funny even in context
22:43:55 <fizzie> shachaf: Did you see the h-peak in http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_h.html there?
22:44:57 <ais523> …we have a page dedicated to how often the letter h is used?
22:45:24 <fizzie> ais523: All the bin/?hh bin/h etc. mess yesterday, I'm pretty sure.
22:45:31 <shachaf> We have a page for every letter, apparently.
22:45:32 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:45:41 <ais523> and somehow I'm glad I missed it
22:45:45 <fizzie> The other letters would feel bad if only h had a page.
22:45:57 <Taneb> There's also been a spike in the usage of HackEgo
22:45:57 <fizzie> ais523: ITYM "mihssehd" HTH HAND
22:45:57 <HackEgo> Ahgehnt "Iä" Smihth ihs ahn ahliehn wihth a strahnge ahllehrgy to ahviahn bohdy cohvehrihng, whihch he ihs tryihng to rehtroahctihvehly prehvehnt frohm ehvehr ehvohlvihng.
22:46:45 <ais523> does that just add an "h" after every vowel?
22:46:50 <oerjan> http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_ø.html doesn't exist, it's outrageous!
22:46:55 -!- carado has joined.
22:47:05 <fizzie> ais523: Between (approximately) every vowel-consonant pair.
22:47:36 <ais523> almost the same except when you have multiple vowels in a row
22:47:44 <oerjan> nice spike in http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_q.html
22:48:01 <Taneb> What happened in early october
22:48:04 <kmc> hhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhu
22:48:26 <FreeFull> I was thinking about ten's complement arithmetic, and what it would mean to have something like :5:382.3 where the part between :: repeats forever
22:48:29 <ais523> hmm… do BF Joust program names cause spikes in the stats?
22:48:35 <ais523> they probably cause spikes in "j"
22:48:43 <Taneb> <elliott> qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq q qqq qq
22:48:45 <monqy> elliott: could that have been one of those days when you spammed q a lot
22:48:46 <Bike> FreeFull: 10-adic?
22:48:51 <Taneb> That may have been it
22:49:01 <elliott> monqy: i don't spam it that much
22:49:07 <elliott> just sometimes when the urge strikes me
22:49:12 <shachaf> http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_x.html
22:49:15 <FreeFull> I wonder what a good name would be for the quantity you need to add to get zero
22:49:21 <evincar> FreeFull: You could get that kind of number by reversing the digits in a rational?
22:49:26 <shachaf> I'm almost tempted to look up logs for the x spikes.
22:49:27 <evincar> Is that a meaningful operation?
22:49:32 <Taneb> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-14
22:49:45 <Bike> FreeFull: are you not describing 10-adic arithmetic
22:49:51 <Taneb> That's where the q-spike comes from
22:50:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6327
22:50:07 <FreeFull> :0:384 is a standard positive number, :9:374 can be thought to describe a negative number
22:50:16 <shachaf> Taneb: Can you look up the x spikes?
22:50:20 <monqy> 02:02:06: <monqy> whitespacer: i think elliott wants something from you
22:50:20 <monqy> 02:02:08: -!- ais523 changed the modes of #esoteric: +m
22:50:20 <monqy> 02:02:19: -!- ais523 changed the modes of #esoteric: -m
22:50:20 <monqy> 02:02:26: <monqy> it's like when a baby cries but it's elliott and q
22:50:20 <FreeFull> I have no idea what :5:43 is, but you can still do arithmetic with it just fine
22:50:29 <monqy> 02:02:44: <monqy> and you don't know if the baby wants food or diapers or what
22:50:29 <fizzie> shachaf: There's a lot of fungot underload stuff with 'x's in them in 2012-10-25.
22:50:30 <fungot> fizzie: in a repl fashion by specifying the language mzscheme use the except form. get the pdf at http://www.unmutual.info/ documentation/ sicp.pdf, the html version is pretty slow
22:50:35 <Bike> no, seriously, don't reinvent p-adics, they're right there.
22:50:36 <Taneb> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-25
22:50:41 <ais523> either I'm trying to stop a botloop
22:50:43 <Taneb> The october x-spike
22:50:49 <ais523> or something really badly is happening
22:51:02 <ais523> punctuation marks might be more interesting, actually
22:51:08 <ais523> because they tend to reflect esolang syntax
22:51:09 <Taneb> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-04-28
22:51:10 <elliott> i agree ais523, something really bad happened that day
22:51:16 <elliott> navi guy joined the channel
22:51:34 <Taneb> <shubshub> ELLIOT SHUT THE FUCK UP
22:52:07 <elliott> im here when desperate measures must be taken
22:52:08 <ais523> elliott: which day was that?
22:52:21 <FreeFull> Bike: Isn't p-adics for prime bases only
22:52:22 <elliott> ais523: 2012-10-14 apparently
22:52:30 <ais523> btw, how annoyed are you when people misspell your name?
22:52:57 <Taneb> oerjan helps, elliott
22:53:01 <Taneb> End of http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-09-02
22:53:08 <Bike> FreeFull: doing it with non-primes doesn't work as well but is still what you are describing
22:53:13 <elliott> ais523: i am kind of used to it
22:53:27 <ais523> with a name with multiple plausible spellings
22:53:31 <ais523> you'd think people would just look at the nick
22:53:35 <evincar> I thought "Elliott" was the normal spelling?
22:53:40 <monqy> 02:44:46: -!- naviISGOD has joined #esoteric.
22:53:40 <monqy> 02:44:49: <naviISGOD> navi navi navi
22:53:41 <monqy> 02:44:55: <naviISGOD> hey listen
22:53:44 <ais523> it's quite rare for other people to misspell ais523
22:53:47 <shachaf> "Eךןםא" ןד איק מםרצשך דפקךךןמעץ
22:53:54 <ais523> (I misspell it all the time, but I normally correct it before sending)
22:53:54 <shachaf> "Eliot" is the normal spelling.
22:54:00 <ais523> (my most common misspelling is ais532)
22:54:16 <shachaf> ais523: To be fair you have a NUMBER at the end of your nick.
22:54:25 <shachaf> A number. Who does that? Does that even count as spelling?
22:54:36 <ais523> who was it who refused to take me seriously as long as I had a number at the end of my nick
22:54:41 <Taneb> I was once booked into a hotel under the name of "Random"
22:54:43 <ais523> but treated me perfectly fine when I changed to scarf?
22:54:46 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf.
22:54:47 <Vorpal> ais523, I don't typo your nick because I always type ai<tab>
22:54:50 <scarf> I should do this more often
22:54:50 <evincar> Ngrams shows Elliott and Elliot roughly equal.
22:54:54 <FreeFull> Bike: I was just thinking about it randomly
22:54:55 <evincar> Eliot is an outlier because of T. S.
22:55:06 <shachaf> Why did you use to have a number at the end of your nick?
22:55:08 <scarf> Vorpal: yeah, but when I'm typing my own nick, I'm not there so it doesn't tab-complete
22:55:16 <Bike> FreeFull: just sayin, if the material's already there you can use it.
22:55:17 <scarf> shachaf: randomly assigned username
22:55:17 <Taneb> `run echo "No-one was ever called Elliot."
22:55:19 <HackEgo> No-one was ever called Elliot.
22:55:24 <shachaf> evincar: T. S. Eliot was the best el+iot+, though.
22:55:30 <Taneb> `run echo "No-one was ever called Elliot." > wisdom/elliot
22:55:37 <Vorpal> scarf, oh okay? In xchat I can tab complete my own nick, pretty sure it ends up last if there are multiple possibilities though
22:55:39 <HackEgo> No-one was ever called Elliot.
22:55:50 <Vorpal> can't test, I'm the only one with v
22:55:52 <scarf> Vorpal: yeah but I can't when I'm not there
22:56:03 <shachaf> `run sed -i s/-/\ / wisdom/elliot
22:56:06 <scarf> like, when I'm joining a channel in webchat
22:56:14 <scarf> how can I tab-complete the nick then?
22:56:23 -!- Taneb has changed nick to VorTaneb.
22:56:27 <scarf> it's like trying to tab-complete in mkdir, I don't create directories often but when I do I try to tab-complete all the time
22:56:30 <scarf> and get annoyed when it doesn't work
22:56:47 -!- VorTaneb has changed nick to Taneb.
22:56:49 <Vorpal> VorTaneb, well okay it still completes to last spoken
22:56:52 <Vorpal> that is kind of stupid
22:57:05 <Vorpal> so after my line "test" it went to me instead
22:57:10 <HackEgo> Vohrpahl ihs reahlly bohrihng. Sehriouhsly, you hahve no ihdea.
22:57:17 <shachaf> Is that really true, Vorpal?
22:57:25 <Vorpal> shachaf, no it is a lie
22:57:29 <HackEgo> Tahnehb ihs noht ehlliohtt, no mahttehr who you ahsk. He ahlso ihsn't a rahbbi ahlthouhgh he hahs prehtehndehd ihn the pahst. (see ahlso: d-mohduhlehs)
22:57:30 <shachaf> I think you and elliott just have a "disagreement".
22:57:42 <HackEgo> shahchahf sprø sohm sehllehri ahnd cohsplayhs Nehpehta Leihjohn ohn weehkehnds.
22:57:45 <HackEgo> D-mohduhlehs ahre juhst mohduhlehs ohvehr the rihng ohf dihffehrehntiahl ohpehrahtohrs. Tahnehb ihnvehntehd thehm.
22:57:58 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
22:58:06 <shachaf> good job inventing d-modules Taneb
22:58:25 <shachaf> maybe you can work your way up to c-modules and eventually a-modules??
22:58:41 <shachaf> Taneb is even listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-modules
22:58:48 <scarf> Taneb: inventing mathematical constructs isn't hard, the problem is finding uses for them
22:58:50 <Vorpal> shachaf, shouldn't the goal be s-modules?
22:59:05 <Vorpal> btw I never understood why S-rank was better than A-rank in games
22:59:06 <scarf> I'm trying to remember which nick I used when I wanted to get accidentally nickpinged a lot
22:59:09 <Vorpal> to me, it makes no sense
22:59:10 <scarf> was it "this"? or is that taken?
22:59:16 <scarf> right, that one isn't taken
22:59:20 -!- scarf has changed nick to this.
22:59:31 <Taneb> They're useful in the Reimann-Hilbert correspondence
23:00:07 <shachaf> this: Why do you care whether that's taken?
23:00:13 <Vorpal> this, can you explain that btw? Why S-rank in a game is above A-rank
23:00:18 <this> shachaf: because I don't like using other people's nicks without their permissions
23:00:29 <this> Vorpal: because if you need a rank above A, you have to call it something
23:00:35 <this> and @ would be excessively geeky
23:00:37 <this> so people just went with S
23:00:42 <Taneb> Vorpal, I always assumed it stood for "Special"
23:00:43 <shachaf> this: Sure, so you should ask whether this is taken.
23:00:45 <this> some games use a star instead
23:00:50 <Vorpal> this, why not just make A the top rank instead?
23:01:00 <Vorpal> and shift everything down by one
23:01:12 <this> Vorpal: for the same reason that giving a game a review score below 8 means you hate it
23:01:16 <this> even if it's, like, 7.9
23:02:04 <Vorpal> this, I generally ignore any sort of scoring, it is mostly useless compared to reading the review. Unless it is something like 2/10 or such
23:02:19 <shachaf> Bike: p-adics are the devil
23:02:21 <this> OK, my client is pinging me on every join/part
23:02:34 <Bike> don't say that sort of thing about freefull!
23:02:38 <Vorpal> this, the score system of game reviews is utterly silly
23:02:38 <this> apparently, "… has joined this channel" pings you if your nick happens to be one of the words in the interface message
23:02:53 <Vorpal> this, sounds like a bug
23:04:48 <kmc> S-rank S-bahn
23:09:33 <this> haha, this day of navi
23:09:43 <this> Arc_Koen invented a BF derivative that maps all the commands to the same keyword
23:09:51 <this> this seems better than most BF derivatives :)
23:10:36 <evincar> Are they differentiated by position or something?
23:10:49 <this> Vorpal: huh, you apparently own "join"
23:11:10 <oerjan> hm idea, a score system where the scores go 1-7, 8, 9, 9.1, 9.2 - 9.9, 9.91 - 9.99, etc.
23:11:21 <this> Vorpal: someone just /nicked to it in another channel and went "hey, it's registered"
23:11:25 <Vorpal> this, and my irc client does not highlight on join or part messages
23:11:30 <this> and I checked, and thought "huh, I know the person who registered that"
23:12:11 <oerjan> i.e. you can have as many 9 digits as you want, but then at most one other
23:12:24 <kmc> log scores eh
23:12:42 <this> oerjan: a little like TeX version numbers, except with 10 rather than pi
23:13:47 <Vorpal> this, btw I turned off highlights except on the form of ^Vorpal[,:] in #NetHack
23:14:02 <Vorpal> other than that I don't get many spurious highlights
23:14:04 <this> Vorpal: because people talk about you a lot?
23:14:08 <this> oh, #nethack, not #esoteric
23:14:10 <this> that makes more sense
23:14:25 <Vorpal> this, yeah they even named a weapon after me in nethack!
23:14:35 <this> there's a speedrunner with your name
23:14:39 <this> I get a little confused sometimes
23:19:55 <Taneb> AnMaster? No! Not Markov!
23:20:17 <this> Taneb: huh, I tried to see an anagram in that
23:20:19 <this> but there isn't one
23:20:31 <oerjan> i suspect a fungot quote
23:20:31 <fungot> oerjan: why don't i continue this... emacs thing... with scheme buffer
23:20:38 <this> fungot: not you too :(
23:20:38 <fungot> this: try another classic. htdp is much easier to compile
23:20:47 <Taneb> `quote anmaster no
23:20:51 <HackEgo> 4) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 65) <AnMaster> I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it \ 89) <AnMaster> fungot!*@* added to ignore list. <fungot> AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 104) <fungot> AnMaster: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all v
23:20:52 <HackEgo> 579) <fungot> Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov
23:21:55 <Sgeo> Why am I dismayed by a commercial for Yugioh anime even though I am a fan of (i forget the name) no Go?
23:22:47 <this> yugioh anime characters are cheating
23:23:00 <this> it's always amusing to see them do something in the anime and people try to stat the anime effects of the cards
23:23:11 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> i preferred it more when you were anmaster... <-- why?
23:23:41 <Vorpal> well, okay that is true
23:23:46 <Vorpal> but it was a bit of a silly nick too
23:24:19 <oerjan> <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: anyway yes "sorry you were offended" is what I meant by "except less sincere" <-- i'd suggest "we would like to apologize to anyone who were reminded of previous traumatic experiences by our advertisement."
23:24:56 <elliott> my code was crushed once :(
23:26:34 <kmc> crush tactic
23:26:54 <kmc> coq out and crush proofs
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23:28:05 <elliott> i think i used crush once and then felt dirty
23:28:17 <monqy> crush is really slow
23:28:24 <monqy> i have better ways to do things now
23:28:40 <elliott> have you Transcended the Crush monqy
23:28:56 <monqy> theres nothing to feel dirty about using crush tho
23:29:29 <elliott> iirc it's ugly i forget why
23:29:43 <elliott> well i guess i just mostly hate tactics in general
23:30:34 <Vorpal> elliott, what is "Crush" in this context?
23:31:47 <this> what does it do?
23:32:10 <monqy> general purpose "solves easy stuff" coq tactic
23:32:39 <shachaf> have you Transcended the Easy Stuff monqy
23:33:18 <this> perhaps it can just tell you what tactics you should have used instead
23:33:21 <this> and then you can replace it with those
23:33:42 <monqy> that's kind of missing the "point" of tactic proofs as i see them
23:34:22 <elliott> the "point" is to be ugly stateful write-only messes :(
23:34:56 <monqy> if it's write-only it's a bad tactic proof
23:35:08 <shachaf> all the best proofs are read-only
23:35:13 <shachaf> unfortunately no one has managed to write them
23:35:19 <elliott> imo the whole structure of the tactics system encourages such write-only proofs
23:35:28 <elliott> the internals are ugly too
23:35:29 <kmc> it can solve monoids eh
23:35:35 <elliott> internals as in how the tactics are actually written
23:35:43 <this> shachaf: I like to write proofs in such a way that you can understand how they work
23:36:04 <this> but people keep telling me to turn them round into the version that just comes out of nowhere
23:36:07 <monqy> ugh whatever i dont feel like arguing this. i hate tactics too but there's ways to make them palatable
23:36:12 <this> my advice is to read them backwards, they often make more sense that way
23:36:21 <shachaf> this: Don't listen to people!
23:36:53 <this> shachaf: but I want them to accept my papers :(
23:37:22 <shachaf> I'll accept your papers instead if you like.
23:38:03 <this> yeah, wouldn't have quite the sort of academic clout I need :(
23:38:40 <kmc> shachaf journal of shachaf
23:38:57 <kmc> the conference proceedings of SIGCHAF
23:39:13 <shachaf> this: are you saying i'm not clouty enough for you :'(
23:39:16 <Bike> a conference about ways to dodge MANPADS would actually be kind of cool
23:39:31 <elliott> monqy: sure you can write palatable C code too
23:39:39 <elliott> doesn't mean it doesn't encourage unpalatable code by its structure
23:39:43 <kmc> when you said "dodge" i thought first of like a guy trying to jump out of the way
23:39:58 <kmc> defensive martial arts training against shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles
23:40:38 <Bike> that would look cool as hell and also you would die but it would still look cool
23:40:54 <Bike> unfortunately it mostly makes me remember burning people failing to jump out of their tanks
23:41:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:42:43 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vljapydLfGQ yeah here we go
23:45:18 -!- this has changed nick to scarf.
23:45:20 -!- mekeor has quit (Quit: too late to apologize).
23:47:21 <Bike> uh, i wouldn't know? it's posted by somebody evidently collecting syria videos
23:47:34 <elliott> http://www.youtube.com/verify_controversy?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DvljapydLfGQ
23:47:44 <ion> controversy verified
23:47:59 <Bike> these things do tend to spread around, though
23:48:10 <ion> What you say, a link spread on the Internet?
23:51:41 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:52:00 <Bike> you, too, can be part of the next-gen social warfare revolution!!
23:52:14 <Jafet> I've seen Link spread on the Internet.
23:52:24 <kmc> social warfare
23:52:37 <kmc> is that like when the IDF pays people to tweet nice things about them
23:53:05 <Jafet> That's just regular warfare.
23:53:08 <Bike> or when i have to avoid reading the comments in broken english about how anti-assad people are subhuman, yes
23:55:16 <Bike> (the guy in charge of the IDF social outreach though, god)
23:56:13 <Phantom_Hoover> i'd've expected god to hold a more senior post, frankly
23:57:00 <Bike> heh, it's funny because you deliberately misinterpreted my use of an interjection as an identifying name of the subject of the previous clause.
23:57:33 <kmc> it's funny because it's not
23:57:51 <Bike> anyway i'm just sayin' the dude dresses up in blackface and that shit ain't fly, it ain't fly at all.
23:58:01 <kmc> pretty fly for a white guy
23:58:18 <Bike> "Obama style" was i think what he said along with it
23:58:38 <kmc> though i think blackface being ultra offensive is something of a US-specific thing
23:58:44 <kmc> i mean it's not great anywhere but
23:58:53 <Phantom_Hoover> no, it was offensive when the bbc did it in the 60s too
23:59:08 <Bike> The BBC did it in the 60s?
23:59:35 <pikhq> It's principally a US thing for it to be offensive, yes.