00:00:01 <shachaf> btw Bike did you write lift and lower for CoYoneda
00:01:59 <oerjan> <fizzie> He usually logreads, so perhaps no particular need to tell (or @tell). <-- well it went faster that way
00:02:34 <shachaf> oerjan: Didn't I ask you something while you were gone?
00:02:58 <Bike> i don't get how liftFoo :: f a -> Foo f a makes sense actually.
00:03:26 <shachaf> Try to write it with the Functor constraint.
00:03:37 <shachaf> Then you'll see how it works.
00:03:48 <oerjan> shachaf: #haskell took too much time
00:03:54 <Bike> well i mean where's the function come from
00:03:58 <shachaf> Oh, right. That's what I asked.
00:03:58 <Bike> or do you just throw in id or something
00:04:30 <shachaf> Bike: What this does is turn zero or more applications of fmap into exactly one application.
00:04:47 <shachaf> Given the two functor laws, you can show that the end result is the same as what you'd've gotten anyway.
00:04:59 <shachaf> fmap f . fmap g = fmap (f . g)
00:05:33 <Bike> lift fuck = Foo fuck id, lower (Foo f a) = fmap a f
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00:06:10 <shachaf> So look at what you're doing -- Foo is literally holding the two arguments to fmap in a data structure.
00:06:33 <Bike> every time i learn a haskell thing i just think "well, that was simple"
00:06:36 <shachaf> (And a bit of type system nonsense to forget about the original type, since it don't matter.)
00:07:07 <Bike> what, write it?
00:07:28 <shachaf> Where CoYoneda has the *arguments* to fmap, Yoneda has the *result* of fmap.
00:07:29 <Bike> i have no idea how so i'm going to not do that atm
00:07:41 <shachaf> fmap :: forall a. forall b. (a -> b) -> F a -> F b
00:07:55 <shachaf> flip fmap :: forall a. F a -> (forall b. (a -> b) -> F b)
00:08:05 <shachaf> Yoneda F a = forall b. (a -> b) -> F b
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00:08:21 <shachaf> With Yoneda, lift has a Functor constraint, but lower doesn't.
00:09:51 <shachaf> I guess you could say: fmap :: CoYoneda f a -> f a
00:11:19 <oerjan> ok so with Yoneda you aren't guaranteed any elements even exist unless f is a functor, right?
00:11:34 <oerjan> but with CoYoneda you are
00:11:50 <shachaf> Well, there could still be inhabitants of Yoneda f a when f isn't a Functor.
00:12:00 <shachaf> But it won't be very well-behaved.
00:12:07 <shachaf> No guarantees, either way.
00:13:49 <oerjan> otoh with CoYoneda you aren't guaranteed that you can get any f element out of it again.
00:14:40 <shachaf> I,I (>>=) :: m a -> Codensity m a
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00:15:07 <shachaf> (=>>) :: Density w a -> w a
00:16:06 <shachaf> Codensity is the same thing as Yoneda except for monads.
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00:16:21 <shachaf> newtype Codensity m a = Codensity { runCodensity :: forall r. (a -> m r) -> m r }
00:16:47 <shachaf> data Density w a = forall x. Density (w x) (w x -> a)
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00:43:11 <Koen_> okay got the second admission test tomorrow morning
00:43:23 <Koen_> it's supposed to last ten minutes
00:44:09 <Koen_> and since the first test actually took 30 minutes instead of the whole hour they advertised... good luck having the motivation to wake up early just for five minutes of playing with tangrams
00:45:54 <kmc> admission to what?
00:47:10 <Koen_> some computer science school
00:47:24 <Gregor> He's so excited about it he doesn't even remember its name.
00:47:41 <Koen_> but "some computer science school" makes it look more serious
00:47:45 <kmc> is it really
00:48:20 <kmc> 42-grok-combinator-dojo.edu
00:48:31 <kmc> ok seriously though, what are you talking about
00:48:53 <Fiora> The SKI Institute of Lambda Calculus
00:48:58 <Koen_> well the guy who owns free decided he had so much money he could just create his own school just like that
00:49:09 <Bike> you mean free.fr?
00:49:22 <Bike> i'm gonna level with you i thought that was a government service
00:49:39 <kmc> Bike it's france everything is a government service (zing)
00:49:41 <Koen_> no that's a telephone / internet company
00:50:04 <Koen_> apparently the guy became wealthy thanks to the sex minitel business
00:50:06 <Bike> à prix incroyable, apparently
00:50:26 <Koen_> yeah they have a reputation like that
00:50:31 <Fiora> kmc: um, so I kind of let myself calm down and get less anxious by doing some other things, and so, I'm up to level 5
00:50:31 <monqy> so what's the deal with this "computer science school"
00:50:37 <kmc> Fiora: cool cool :)
00:50:40 <Fiora> my exploit works fine in gdb, but... it sigills outside of gdb?
00:50:54 <kmc> they're named '42' as a clever reference to 'hacker culture'
00:50:56 <Fiora> (and in gdb it doesn't get me the level6 shell, just a level5 shell)
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00:51:07 <Bike> a clever reference to 'h2g2 culture'
00:51:18 <Koen_> it's much worse than that
00:51:18 <kmc> Fiora: yeah, programs running in a debugger lose setuid bits
00:51:20 <monqy> ah, nerd culture strikes again
00:51:25 <kmc> otherwise you could exploit them so easily
00:51:26 <shachaf> Fiora: gdb does all sorts of things to make debugging easy
00:51:31 <Koen_> every mail they sends me is full of 1337 crap
00:51:33 <shachaf> Fiora: Like disable ASLR and what not.
00:51:43 <Koen_> and other references to geek stuff
00:51:44 <Fiora> oh. the system has ASLR on? :<
00:51:48 <kmc> does GDB actually disable ASLR?
00:51:51 <monqy> are you sure they teach compsci and not like
00:51:54 <kmc> and no, the io.sts system doesn't have ASLR enabled
00:52:00 <monqy> idk something stupid
00:52:00 <Bike> Koen_: wait wait wait, is this a for-profit school?
00:52:02 <kmc> a few binaries have ghetto ASLR glued on
00:52:06 <Fiora> yeah, I ran my exploit like 100,000 times
00:52:06 <kmc> you'll see it in the source
00:52:07 <Bike> because like... fuck that shit, you know?
00:52:17 <Koen_> anyway apparently you have to pass the tests online, and then if you pass you get a free course over the summer
00:52:18 <kmc> Fiora: do you have a big NOP sled?
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00:52:23 <Fiora> ummmm no, no nop sled
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00:52:29 <Fiora> how big should the nop sled be?
00:52:36 <kmc> as big as you can get away with
00:52:38 <Koen_> and then if they still want you after that you get in the school starting november or something
00:52:44 <kmc> i think i've put 1MB nop sleds on the command line
00:52:45 <Koen_> and it's supposedly all free
00:52:53 <Koen_> so I figured I could as well enter
00:53:14 <Fiora> but this is a 128 byte array I'm overflowing
00:53:37 <shachaf> are you asking for spoilers here :'(
00:53:39 <Fiora> and at the end I have to clobber a return value
00:53:46 <Fiora> n-no... I don't mean that...!
00:53:54 <Bike> well you can just fuck memory right
00:54:01 <Bike> fill that shit with xchg eax eax
00:54:15 <kmc> Fiora: yeah your shellcode might go in a different arg from the buffer overflow
00:54:18 <kmc> or even in an env var
00:54:31 <kmc> you just need to get that code somewhere in the process's address space, and guess its address
00:54:33 <Fiora> I thought you put the code in the buffer and then try to jump to it
00:54:42 <kmc> and if you have a big nop sled then you don't need to guess too accurately
00:54:59 <kmc> Fiora: that's often the case, with remote exploits especially, but not here
00:55:09 <monqy> iim interested to see what "42" actually teaches, what "42" really is
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00:55:12 <kmc> the great thing about setuid binaries is that the user^Wattacker controls so much of their execution environment
00:55:14 <Fiora> how would I iterate over a gazillion different addresses in my overflow to try it?
00:55:24 <Koen_> monqy: weeeeeeeell it's really really unclear
00:55:27 <Fiora> I guess perl magic or something
00:55:29 <monqy> im betting it's a front for i-drugs.
00:55:34 <Koen_> I'm probably not interested
00:55:34 <kmc> Fiora: i think you'll find that env vars are loaded at a roughly constant address
00:55:37 <kmc> as is argv
00:55:44 <kmc> gdb's results should be reasonable accurate there
00:55:49 <zzo38> (Codensity f) is not necessarily the same as f, but in some cases it is such as Identity or Finalize. Other times you get other existing monads such as (Codensity ((->) x)) making (State x). In all cases it makes a monad though, even if f isn't.
00:55:58 <Koen_> which will make it even harder to get up tomorrow morning :p
00:55:59 <kmc> but yeah, you could use perl's pack function to generate a bunch of addresses
00:56:06 <Fiora> um, how would I look at an env variable in gdb?
00:56:09 <shachaf> kmc: A curious scientific phenomenonis that the fingernails grow after death. As does the beard.
00:56:09 <Bike> "The answer to free, peer-to-peer IT courses and everything? For France, it's 42" why did i look this up
00:56:31 <Bike> variable it's your own damn fault
00:56:32 <zzo38> When writing Linux programs meant as setuid I have tried to be careful to ensure that it won't cause a security issue
00:56:54 <Bike> monqy: that's a news article not the thing
00:56:56 <shachaf> Fiora: cat /proc/pid/environ hth
00:57:04 <Fiora> oww, what did I do :<
00:57:05 <kmc> that doesn't give you the address of the environment array does it
00:57:11 <Bike> the thing is http://www.42.fr/ supposedly but it doesn't seem up
00:57:15 <Bike> Fiora: pinged 'em
00:57:20 <Fiora> level5@io:~$ cat /proc/pid/environ
00:57:21 <Fiora> cat: /proc/pid/environ: No such file or directory
00:57:34 <variable> /proc is the root of many bugs
00:57:49 <variable> Fiora: you can set with set environment foo = bar
00:57:52 <Bike> Fiora: pid is something you replace with your pid
00:57:56 <kmc> but the goal isn't to find out what's in the environment, the goal is to find the address of the environment array itself
00:57:58 <Fiora> yes but how do I know where the address is >_<
00:58:00 <Koen_> Bike: uuuuuh what have you done I can't log in to their site
00:58:06 <Fiora> but I don't know the pid
00:58:10 <Bike> Koen_: i broke it. this cannot be allowed to stand.
00:58:10 <kmc> Fiora: for some reason "p environ" isn't giving useful values in gdb :/
00:58:22 <kmc> anyway it's usually right after argv
00:58:26 <kmc> somewhere on the stack
00:58:28 <Fiora> yes but where is argv
00:58:31 <variable> Fiora: for the x86 its right before the argv
00:58:32 <kmc> so you could break on main
00:58:33 <Bike> I'm pretty sure there's a cheat folder to get your own pid but i forget it
00:58:39 <Fiora> um, kmc, I already did that...
00:58:43 <Fiora> that's how I got the current address...
00:58:46 <oerjan> <Koen_> and it's supposedly all free <-- so... did you happen to discover this yesterday? *cough*
00:58:48 <Fiora> but it doesn't work...
00:59:00 <oerjan> sorry, the day before yesterday
00:59:05 <shachaf> Fiora: you can turn on ASLR in gdb to get a "more realistic debugging experience" hth
00:59:06 <kmc> Fiora: but did you try it with a huge nop sled + some fudging of addresses
00:59:08 <Koen_> oerjan: a week ago I think
00:59:14 <Fiora> shachaf: but the machine has aslr off
00:59:25 <shachaf> So why isn't it working without gdb?
00:59:26 <Fiora> kmc just said that it did...
00:59:33 <Fiora> I don't knowwwwwwwwwwwwww
00:59:34 <shachaf> imo investigate what's going on
00:59:35 <Fiora> that's what I am trying to ask
00:59:45 <shachaf> investigating what's going on is the whole point of these exercises imo
00:59:56 <kmc> fudging meaning just try adjusting it
00:59:59 <variable> Bike: /proc/self is your own pid in rootmefs
01:00:10 <Fiora> I tried adjusting it up/down 16/32/48 ish manually
01:00:15 <kmc> if your nop sled is 4 kB then try moving the address up and down in 4kB increments
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01:00:24 <Fiora> but... I only have 128 bytes of room...
01:00:24 <Bike> is rootmefs an insult
01:00:35 <kmc> Fiora: no because you can put your shellcode in a separate argument or env variable
01:00:48 * Sgeo decides to watch some Emo Philips
01:00:56 <variable> Bike: /proc has been the cause of many a linux kernel bug
01:01:03 <Fiora> I asked how to get the address of an environment variable but nobody answered me,..
01:01:22 <shachaf> char buf[128]; strcpy(buf, argv[1]); ...?
01:01:37 <variable> Fiora: there is no *portable* way to get the address of "the envrionment"; you can cheat if you know the architecture
01:01:47 <variable> or you can usw show envrionemnt
01:01:58 <kmc> ./foo "$(perl -e 'print "x" x 128; print "\xef\xbe\xad\x0b"')" "$(perl -e 'print "\x90" x 4096'; cat shellcode)"
01:02:01 <kmc> Fiora: something like that
01:02:12 <kmc> the first arg overflows the buffer and overwrites the return address
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01:02:24 <kmc> the second arg is ignored by the program, but gets your shellcode into its address space with a big nop sled
01:02:30 <kmc> variable: I don't think /proc is relevant or helpful here
01:02:48 <variable> kmc: someone else mentioned it
01:02:54 <Fiora> is shellcode supposed to be a file...?
01:02:58 <kmc> Fiora: in that case yeah
01:03:02 <Fiora> but I can't write files
01:03:19 <kmc> well that's not supposed to happen, but anyway, you could also do it inline
01:03:21 <Fiora> not in tmp not anywhere
01:03:55 <Bike> fiora, it's alright
01:03:58 <variable> Fiora: you don't need the shellcode to be in a file
01:04:07 <kmc> Fiora: you could move the shellcode into the perl invocation, like the first one
01:04:28 <Fiora> but your example gives the program two arguments but it needs 1
01:04:47 <shachaf> Did they change the passwords or something?
01:04:55 <kmc> shachaf: they do change them periodically
01:05:01 <kmc> you can get the new password in IRC
01:05:16 <kmc> Fiora: well does it actually refuse to run with 2 args, or does it just ignore the second one?
01:05:30 <kmc> if it refuses to run, you can put that shellcode in an environment variable instead
01:05:48 <Fiora> um, it supports more, but... I don't get it
01:05:49 <kmc> it just needs to end up somewhere in the process's address space, with a vaguely predictable address
01:06:06 <kmc> so that you can overflow the buffer and make that function return to this address
01:06:10 <Bike> Fiora: You just need the shellcode to be in the address space when the buffer overflows. It doesn't matter so much how it gets in.
01:06:18 <Fiora> but I already got it in
01:06:21 <Fiora> and I already checked the address
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01:06:44 <kmc> Fiora: but your address is probably slightly off, due to differences between gdb and non-gdb environment
01:06:49 <kmc> that's the point of the NOP sled
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01:07:01 <kmc> means you don't need to be so precise guessing the address
01:07:36 <kmc> and needing a big NOP sled is why you want to put the shell code in a separate arg / env var, rather than the buffer you're overflowing
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01:09:44 <kmc> btw I found that addresses would differ depending on whether I ran the program as ./level05 or /levels/level05
01:09:50 <kmc> because that alters the length of argv[0]
01:09:59 <kmc> but if your nop sled is big enough then this doesn't really matter
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01:10:54 <Jafet> gdb always puts the full path in *argv
01:11:50 <Fiora> http://privatepaste.com/e72a7592bf bash doesn't seem to want me to do this...
01:11:52 <Fiora> with the $a and $b...
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01:12:28 <kmc> well it's inside a string that's single-quoted from the shell's perspective isn't it
01:12:37 <kmc> so those $a and $b are perl variables but not shell variables
01:12:43 <Fiora> I want to just bruteforce it
01:12:51 <kmc> move the assignment into perl :)
01:12:57 <Fiora> ... I don't know any perl
01:13:05 <kmc> good excuse to learn some
01:13:08 <Fiora> and um, I need to loop
01:13:13 <Fiora> I don't think I can loop inside that...
01:13:15 <Bike> or python, or whatever simple thing.
01:13:19 <kmc> perl has loops
01:13:23 <shachaf> Fiora: i did it without knowing any perl
01:13:24 <kmc> sorry to state the obvious
01:13:41 <Fiora> Can't modify constant item in scalar assignment at -e line 1, near "FB;"
01:14:13 <kmc> btw if I ssh to level1@io.smashthestack.org and then mkdir /tmp/esoteric_rulez and then cd /tmp/esoteric_rulez
01:14:14 <shachaf> Fiora: just pretend it's AVX2, hth
01:14:16 <kmc> then i can create files there
01:14:21 <Fiora> kmc: ????? i can't
01:14:32 <kmc> not sure what I'm doing differently :(
01:14:38 <Fiora> level5@io:~$ touch /tmp/fiora/test
01:14:39 <Fiora> touch: cannot touch `/tmp/fiora/test': Permission denied
01:15:12 <kmc> hm: mkdir: cannot create directory `/tmp/fiora': File exists
01:15:18 <Fiora> yeah, because I already made it...
01:15:29 <kmc> did you make it as a different user
01:15:36 <kmc> you need one directory per level basically
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01:21:40 <Fiora> oh cool I can write c code now
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01:22:04 <shachaf> You can always write C code locally and upload it via base64.
01:22:40 <Bike> fiora proceeds to write a complete suite of tools for autogenerating shellcode instead of using perl
01:23:34 <kmc> Fiora: i read that in the same tone as "i know kung fu"
01:23:48 <Fiora> shachaf: would that work? I mean, like, it wouldn't be compiled on the same system...
01:24:05 <shachaf> if only binaries could be compiled on one system and run on another
01:24:16 <shachaf> an innovation left for the 22nd century
01:24:17 <Bike> you don't need to be sarcastic.
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01:24:46 <Fiora> I thought linux wasn't that great at that... like you can't go and run some random gentoo binary on an ubuntu system and have it using an identical libc and stuff or something can you or am I totally confused
01:25:31 <shachaf> You can always write a program that doesn't use libc!!
01:25:37 <shachaf> The kernel ABI is very stable.
01:26:12 <Fiora> what I went and just like ran my original code that didn't work
01:26:21 <Fiora> maybe it was because I had a different cwd? @_@
01:26:22 <Bike> programming defined :D
01:26:50 <shachaf> Fiora: Maybe it only works some of the time?
01:27:00 <Fiora> I ran it 5^5 times without success earlier...
01:27:07 <shachaf> Sometimes on games like this with ASLR I just ran my program a few thousand times until it worked.
01:27:28 <Fiora> actually I think I ran that loop like a few dozen times too so
01:27:46 <Fiora> kmc: /levels/level05 "$(echo McBQaC8vc2hoL2JpbonjUFOJ4bALzYBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEDQ+/+/ | base64 -d)"
01:27:50 <Fiora> (that ended up doing it)
01:28:11 <Bike> I thought you meant the next level was about exploiting a bignum implementation, that'd be cool.
01:28:31 * Bike doesn't know anything about implementing bignums other than the obvious way though.
01:29:18 <Fiora> good job stressing yourself out over stupid things fifi
01:29:26 <kmc> Fiora: you beat the level? cool
01:29:30 <Bike> there there fiora
01:29:35 <Bike> you are infinity times farther in this than i am
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01:31:54 <zzo38> The kind of MediaWiki skin I want to use would be something like this: http://sprunge.us/Jgci Maybe I can try to write one.
01:32:08 <zzo38> There are others who have said they wanted to have "unstyled" skin, and so on.
01:32:13 <zzo38> What do you think of this?
01:32:49 <zzo38> (Render as HTML if you want to yourself, to see how it appears on your computer)
01:32:52 <Bike> Is that a skin because it looks li- oh.
01:33:05 <Bike> Does mediawiki seriously use allcaps html?
01:34:18 <zzo38> It doesn't have to, either.
01:34:19 <Bike> Your skin looks like every professor's webpage.
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01:34:43 <zzo38> Using allcaps HTML is not what I mean at all; that doesn't matter (unless it is XHTML, which mine isn't)
01:35:16 <zzo38> Like every professor's webpage? I didn't know that, but that is irrelevant.
01:36:14 <kmc> it matters in XHTML?
01:36:21 <Bike> Well I mean... I don't know what a skin is, but there's no css or nuthin
01:36:40 <Bike> kmc: xml is case sensitive
01:36:46 <zzo38> XHTML has to use lowercase HTML tags and has to be valid XML (so tags without a corresponding closing tag have to be self-closing in XHTML)
01:37:20 <kmc> Bike: TIL :(
01:37:51 <Bike> i dunno, i feel a bit more lukewarm about case insensitivity after thinking about other scripts
01:38:28 <zzo38> Bike: Yes, I know, no CSS or anything like that; It is what I wanted (some other people also wanted an "unstyled" skin, like that, perhaps), which is just ultra-minimal with no CSS, JavaScripts, section-edit links, edit toolbars, etc; only plain.
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01:40:20 <zzo38> Bike: Can you be more specific please?
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01:41:59 <Bike> specific about what.
01:42:45 <Bike> anyway html doesn't really specify how to be displayed does it
01:43:11 <zzo38> Correct; it doesn't specify. It is up to the client to display it.
01:43:22 <zzo38> I meant specific about lukewarm about case insensitivity after thinking about other scripts.
01:43:49 <Bike> Oh, just that it doesn't always seem clear how multiple characters "share a case" across languages
01:45:13 <zzo38> Well, case-insensitivity is specific to the language/alphabets/character-sets you are using.
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02:11:39 <Bike> https://github.com/divarvel/phpz
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02:26:47 <shachaf> y'all're lucky you're not in #haskell right now
02:27:30 <kmc> what's going down
02:27:34 <kmc> morpheus is fighting neo?
02:27:46 <Bike> it's high noon and the sheriff ain't got his gun
02:28:33 <kmc> "Who's the commanding officer here?" "Ain't you?"
02:28:37 <Bike> oh hey it's ralith
02:28:47 <shachaf> oh no are you reading the logs
02:28:56 <shachaf> I'm just being annoying in there now.
02:29:00 <Bike> "roshan: JS is usually faster than Python" yeah i'm done
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02:30:32 <kmc> Bike: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7xjjevoeE1rn95k2o1_250.gif
02:31:14 <Bike> only the dead shall know peace from this evil
02:33:17 <Bike> anyway you guys should convince sw2wolf to use xmonad. thanks in advance
02:35:10 <kmc> truly #esoteric is the shitposting subforum of #haskell
02:36:27 <shachaf> Bike: Where do you know sw2wolf from?
02:36:32 <shachaf> kmc: why don't you appreciate my puns.........
02:37:07 <Bike> #lisp, he asks for people to debug everything in broken english
02:37:21 <shachaf> wow that sounds like #haskell
02:37:24 <shachaf> are you sure #lisp isn't #haskel
02:40:10 <kmc> @quote ubuntu.freebsd
02:40:10 <lambdabot> NIXDAEMON-COOL says: how to uncompile make into java gcc 3.3 under ubuntu freebsd ??
02:40:24 <Bike> has putin ever been asked that
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02:52:31 <Bike> what does "strongly typed" mean
02:53:25 <shachaf> oerjan: /kick Bike plz thx
02:54:41 <Bike> but seriously i'm 80% sure it's meaningless so I'm wondering if anyone thinks differently
02:54:45 <kmc> have at thee, knave!
02:54:47 <Bike> is this "a recurring #haskell thing" perchance
02:55:07 <kmc> i'm just gonna drop this here http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/an-old-article-i-wrote/
02:55:09 <shachaf> alt. it means whatever you want it to mean
02:55:13 <kmc> shachaf: 'like LISP'
02:55:18 <Jafet> It's 80% meaningless
02:55:25 <shachaf> alt. it means whatever makes the person you're talking to look stupid
02:55:38 <oerjan> Bike: it's like "stringly typed" but with steel cable hth
02:56:01 <Bike> "Strong typing: A type system that I like and feel comfortable with" okay the problem here is that the other half of the conversation is supporting weak typing, as in, saying they like "weak typing"
02:56:20 <shachaf> no some people say strong typing is bad
02:56:42 <shachaf> weak types for the weak minded
02:56:52 <Jafet> Is strong bad typing?
02:57:08 <Bike> Wow, this says static typing and dynamic typing are orthogonal. I love you, article.
02:57:08 <shachaf> what if you support both strong and weak typing at once
02:57:10 <kmc> <STRONG> typing
02:57:12 <oerjan> Bike: well weak types are types that know their place and don't get in the way of the programmer. duh.
02:57:32 <kmc> itt uppity types
02:57:33 <Bike> don't be a misotypist
02:57:50 <kmc> shachaf: the joke is coming from inside the irc
02:58:30 <shachaf> intermediate representation c
03:00:14 <shachaf> Bike: how bout them leibniz equalities
03:00:16 <kmc> shachaf: wouldn't you love to secure boot GPG directly from UEFI
03:00:32 <Bike> also in this discussion i mentioned unsafeCoerce
03:00:33 <Bike> "This is like looking at a finely chiseled sculpture made from beautiful and purely white wood. Then you realize in horror that the material is actually human bone."
03:00:34 <kmc> slight problem is that GPG's UI is beyond unusuable
03:00:47 <Jafet> Cool intermediate representation C using steroids
03:00:54 <kmc> Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary
03:01:04 <Bike> a good ossuary.
03:01:17 <Bike> "id = unsafeCoerce" welp
03:01:25 <kmc> efficiency
03:01:39 <kmc> we don't have time for your types at web scale
03:02:13 <Jafet> kmc: offer it next to Unity
03:02:29 <shachaf> spj called my code "ferociously-unintuitive"
03:02:35 <Bike> "null = not . unsafeCoerce" this is beautiful
03:02:43 <shachaf> That is a ferociously-unintuitive use of 'gcast'! It too me dome while to convince myself that it was right. Though it does indeed work. I'd see (gcast Refl) as the primitive, with 'gcast' itself as a simple derived function.
03:03:01 <kmc> shachaf: you're winner
03:03:01 <lambdabot> roconnor says: unsafeCoerce isn't even safe
03:03:17 <lambdabot> int-e says: What, unsafeCoerce# is kind-preserving? how boring :/
03:03:23 <lambdabot> No quotes for this person. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
03:03:25 <lambdabot> ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce
03:03:27 <lambdabot> ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce
03:03:28 <lambdabot> shachaf says: isTrue :: Bool -> Bool; isTrue = unsafeCoerce
03:03:31 <lambdabot> ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce
03:03:46 <Jafet> It might be there; keep trying.
03:03:54 <lambdabot> Jafet says: <Jafet> Wouldn't that violate the laws of thermodynamics? <ski> not if you indent the `|' properly
03:04:03 <Jafet> You made spj too dome while?
03:04:12 <lambdabot> Conor says: So, taking Void to be the colour of the empty bikeshed ...
03:04:51 <Bike> undefined = unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce
03:05:05 <Bike> wow this has "thanks edwardk" in it
03:06:23 <Bike> some old gist you've probably all seen
03:06:39 <shachaf> do you know who edwardk is
03:06:55 <Bike> His true name is spoken only in whispers.
03:07:04 <shachaf> the k stands for "hi monky" which is a misspelling of monqy
03:08:13 <kmc> I have a C program that I'm pretty sure will kernel panic umlbox but I don't want to try it out on HackEgo because Gregor might murder me
03:08:33 <shachaf> Gregor: You don't mind, right?
03:09:03 <ais523> Bike: that definition of undefined looks unreliable
03:09:49 <ais523> now I'm trying to work out what "fix unsafeCoerce" is
03:09:59 <ais523> an infinite loop, I guess, if its value becomes relevant
03:10:16 <shachaf> So it's just a plain old infinite loop.
03:11:12 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
03:11:22 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
03:11:36 <ais523> I think `? HackEgo is somewhat sarcastic
03:11:46 <Bike> unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce
03:11:48 <Bike> Segmentation fault
03:11:49 <kmc> now the ptracer becomes the ptraced
03:11:52 <Bike> That went well.
03:12:03 <oerjan> i vaguely think `? HackEgo was added by Gregor himself.
03:12:10 <shachaf> kmc: imo `? HackEgo tells you the way
03:12:31 <ais523> `pastlog `learn HackEgo
03:12:32 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom/hackego
03:12:50 <oerjan> ais523: it cannot be `learn because of the comma
03:12:54 <ais523> kmc: I got two gdb to debug each other, it was great
03:12:58 <ais523> oerjan: right, missed that
03:14:44 <oerjan> ais523: hm the repository has had its history wiped since that was added
03:14:59 <ais523> `pastlog wisdom/HackEgo
03:15:07 <oerjan> `pastelogs wisdom/hackego
03:15:07 <Gregor> kmc: Causing a kernel panic in umlbox would be pretty mundane, really.
03:15:16 <Gregor> In terms of its effect.
03:15:21 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:23:05:16: <HackEgo> mv: cannot stat `wisdom/HackEgo,': No such file or directory
03:15:30 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31897
03:15:58 <ais523> Gregor: it also wouldn't be visible on IRC, would it?
03:16:07 <ais523> `pastlog You should totally try to hax0r it!
03:16:09 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31776
03:16:10 <oerjan> ais523: oh it actual was `learn XD
03:16:17 <HackEgo> 2011-09-14.txt:23:04:34: <Gregor> `learn HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
03:16:24 <Gregor> I don't keep the system console.
03:16:34 <kmc> Gregor: yeah
03:16:45 <oerjan> http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-09-14.txt
03:16:50 <shachaf> Oh, that's true. It starts a new UML every time, doesn't it?
03:16:54 <kmc> potentially if I did a bunch of them it would be obnoxious to the server
03:17:09 <kmc> if there's nothing that kills wedged umlbox-linux processes
03:17:16 <kmc> but, probably there is such a thing as that
03:18:06 <shachaf> All these Crypto Exceptions in mosh are annoying.
03:18:13 <shachaf> And they disappear immediately so I can't even read them.
03:18:23 <Gregor> kmc: Oh, it leaves the uml process running in a borked-up state?
03:21:02 <Bike> kmc: i like how that article is like "lol, performance"
03:21:12 <oerjan> kmc: use it to make a HackEgo daemon imo
03:37:52 -!- kmc has set topic: One for yes, two for no | IGMuYwpjLmMuYwogYy5jCg== | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
03:39:42 <shachaf> kmc: is that a multiocular c.c
03:41:37 <Fiora> sorry for getting all nervous earlier, I think I'll continue that wargame thing later
03:41:41 <Fiora> thanks for the help
03:42:31 <kmc> i hope we didn't overwhelm you with attempts to help
03:42:32 <kmc> #haskell style
03:42:55 <Fiora> um, maybe a little
03:43:19 <shachaf> Because that would be spoilers.
03:44:40 <shachaf> hey copumpkin did you ever read that story by ted chiang _Liking What You See: A Documentary_
03:45:19 <shachaf> http://www.clarku.edu/welcome/placement/pdf/reading.pdf
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03:46:34 <shachaf> MCALLISTER Keegan can confirm that it's good. Or not good. Depending on what he wants to confirm.
03:46:44 <kmc> i will confirm
03:47:28 <kmc> shachaf has better taste in readings though
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03:48:38 <kmc> yes User Mode Linux is definitely like a dancing bear
03:48:49 <kmc> the miracle is not that the bear dances well, but that he dances at all
03:49:16 <kmc> it's the sort of thing that is obviously possible in principle, and yet obviously not going to work, and yet it does
03:49:26 * kmc thinks most of computers is like that, sometimes
03:50:26 <Bike> dancing is pretty miraculous even for humans imo
03:53:32 <kmc> mine isn't
03:54:28 <Bike> even if you fell flat on your face that would be amazing
03:54:38 <Bike> have you ever thought about the amount of coordination involved in falling on your face
03:55:14 <Bike> It's a lot. Keepin your hands in front of your head and such.
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04:37:25 <zzo38> I found out there is a ?action=render in MediaWiki which is close to what I have asked for.
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06:11:54 * pikhq would like to randomly interject by saying that the Japanese MLP translation is well-done.
06:12:19 <coppro> I don't think that qualifies as an interjection
06:12:42 <pikhq> More a statement really.
06:12:58 <olsner> is it better in japanese or english?
06:13:16 <Bike> really only the maltese localization preserves all the subtleties
06:13:31 <HackEgo> Bike: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
06:14:07 <shachaf> Bike: So have you learned about rank-2 types yet?
06:14:08 <pikhq> I'm probably not in a position to answer that... I *enjoyed* it more in Japanese, but when I watched it in English I had much less serotonin floating around.
06:14:33 <shachaf> more like serotonout am i right
06:14:42 <olsner> maltese is apparently derived from arabic, with mixed-in italian and sicilian vocabulary
06:18:20 <coppro> pikhq: personal issues?
06:18:50 <pikhq> coppro: Antidepressants are great, man.
06:18:51 <Bike> nah he was just chillin' in a pool filled with neurotransmitters
06:19:43 <olsner> ah, so what you're really saying is that MLP is better on drugs
06:20:33 <pikhq> Yeah, drugs that enhance your ability to derive pleasure from things, enhance the pleasure derived from things.
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07:58:47 <zzo38> OK????!!!?!?!?!?!!!???
07:59:06 <zzo38> Did you do that yet?
08:00:15 <zzo38> If not, it doesn't matter anyways.
08:07:59 <Lumpio-> Did zzo38 finally lose it completely?
08:09:27 <zzo38> Is there a difference? No.
08:09:52 <fizzie> I think that's a "yes".
08:10:02 <zzo38> No, there is not a difference.
08:15:35 <zzo38> I am glad that esolang wiki has not upgraded; the new stuff (even other than removing some skins) is completely crazy!
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08:24:08 <zzo38> I don't know that.
08:24:10 <monqy> pb usually means peanut butter ime
08:24:27 <Lumpio-> I'm surprised you haven't made a Gopher proxy for the wiki already
08:27:27 <fizzie> A generic Gopher plugin for MediaWiki?
08:27:37 <zzo38> I could make some which is read-only; however, the wiki has too much formatting and stuff is needed...
08:27:46 <zzo38> It would work with simpler wikis though.
08:28:32 <fizzie> I'm sure you could persuade elliott "the energetic wiki sysadmin" elliott to install a Gopher plugin.
08:29:56 <zzo38> Would a gopher plugin for esolang wiki be useful in any ways anyways? I don't think so!
08:31:51 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
08:31:53 <zzo38> If there is one, you can say what it is; that way, is more persuasion and more explanation too.
08:35:23 <fizzie> I could not find one with a cursory search.
08:35:32 <fizzie> (Which is maybe slightly surprising?)
08:36:32 <zzo38> What do you expect it to do?
08:38:48 <fizzie> I would think it'd offer at least that read-only access to the wiki in question over the gopher protocol. I don't know what sort of menus it would have.
08:39:34 <zzo38> Possibly the menus for each category, is what menus it would have.
08:39:57 <zzo38> If the pages are written clearly enough, rendering them may not even be needed at all.
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08:40:33 <zzo38> Gopher can serve HTML if needed, but generally you should use plain text if possible, to use on computers and programs and so on that are not HTML.
08:40:56 <fizzie> I think there are some existing tools for rendering MediaWiki markup into a plaintext approximation.
08:43:04 <zzo38> I also think that such a thing would not be a MediaWiki extension, but a separate program (possibly running on the same computer as the MediaWiki, accessing the same database). But, yes, such tools may be helpful for such purpose, I suppose. The file archive on esolang could also be accessed in the same gopher service.
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08:45:32 <fizzie> I don't know anything about MediaWiki extensions. But if they are bits and pieces of PHP, possibly it indeed makes more sense for it to be a separate program using the same database.
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09:05:37 <fizzie> Random thought: 0xfull == 15.
09:07:17 <ais523> fizzie: possible loss of precision in comparison
09:07:33 <ais523> presumably both sides get cast to unsigned long long?
09:08:03 <fizzie> "The usual arithmetic conversions are performed."
09:08:43 <shachaf> ais523: Do you prefer one of Yoneda/CoYoneda?
09:08:58 <ais523> shachaf: no, partly because I don't know what they are
09:09:04 <ais523> they get mentioned here every now and then, though
09:09:04 <fizzie> The unsigned type has a rank greater than or equal of the rank of the signed one, so the 15 gets converted to unsigned long long.
09:09:19 <shachaf> newtype Yoneda f a = Yoneda { runYoneda :: forall b. (a -> b) -> f b }
09:09:23 <shachaf> data CoYoneda f a = forall x. CoYoneda (f x) (x -> a)
09:09:25 <Fiora> it hasn't yet been converted to 0xDEADBEEF
09:10:55 <fizzie> 0z5HACHAF (it's base-18).
09:10:57 <Fiora> if we 0xCULL a 0xBULL we end up with 0xDEADBEEF? I don't know where I'm going with this
09:11:13 <shachaf> Fiora: imo this is 0xadeadfad
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09:12:23 <lambdabot> *** "ull" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
09:12:23 <lambdabot> n 1: (Norse mythology) one of the Aesir known for his beauty and
09:12:23 <lambdabot> skill with bow and skis; son of Sif and stepson of Thor
09:12:25 <Koen_> oklofok: counting dots was great
09:12:56 <Fiora> shachaf: it must be too late at night because I'm laughing at that XD
09:12:57 <Koen_> this morning's test was kinda like the game simon, except with a number of squares that doubled at every good answer, rather than always four squares
09:13:44 <Koen_> and sequences getting longer and longer AND a very limited time to give an answer
09:14:03 <Koen_> near the end he blew a correct answer because I was one second late :(
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09:15:42 <ThatOtherPersonY> but um... I've never even heard of a Red Screen of Death before
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09:15:53 <zzo38> I didn't hear either.
09:16:00 <zzo38> But now you told me.
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09:17:35 <Koen_> ThatOtherPerson: way to spoil windows!
09:18:22 <fizzie> The color of the blue screen of death is customizable, at least. But maybe this was something else.
09:18:24 <zzo38> I found a chart in Wikipedia of religious % of people who belief evolution is a good explanation of human life on Earth. The most is Buddhist 81%. Unaffiliated is 72%, Jewish is 77%, Catholic is 58%, Jehovah's Witness is 8%. The total population surveyed has 48% in favor of the evolution explanation.
09:22:08 <atriq> Could it have been a cable coming loose?
09:22:14 <shachaf> zzo38: are you belief evolution is a good explanation of human life on Earth
09:22:40 <ThatOtherPerson> I get the feeling that it was one of those things that isn't supposed to happen that isn't supposed to happen.
09:22:54 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes. I think the theory of evolution is a good theory. It may not be perfect, but that is why corrections are made is new thing are figure out!
09:23:01 <ThatOtherPerson> As opposed to a BSOD, which is one of those things that isn't supposed to happen which is supposed to happen.
09:23:15 <shachaf> `run quote evolution | shuf
09:23:18 <fizzie> The wrong wrong thing and the right wrong thing.
09:23:22 <zzo38> I also never seen red screen of death.
09:23:32 <shachaf> `run quote telescop | shuf
09:23:38 <shachaf> `run quote charcoal | shuf
09:23:40 <HackEgo> 29) <ehird> is there a problem with it being carbonized :D <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
09:24:45 <fizzie> `run quote $(words) | shuf
09:24:55 <fizzie> One day that will return an output.
09:26:59 <zzo38> Some people say evolution is no good; it is just a theory. Some people say, no; it is a fact. But those people seem to not understand. Evolution *is* a theory (not a fact), but a scientific theory is one that has the scientific method and all that; and it happens to be a very good theory.
09:31:01 <fizzie> `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)")
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09:31:23 <fizzie> Dang. (Both two of my in-query tests produced something.)
09:32:58 <AnotherTest> Evolution is a theory that agrees with people's observations. Sometimes I guess we need to make small modifications to that theory to make it fit better. It's probably pretty correct tho.
09:33:20 <fizzie> `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") # NOT GIVING UP
09:33:22 <AnotherTest> at least it's more correct than saying some random creature created the world
09:33:39 <HackEgo> 622) <ais523> also, why isn't monqy from Hexham? his name sounds like he should be \ 691) <ais523> oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? <Frooxius> No, sorry. <ais523> phew <Ngevd> How about Finland? <Frooxius> Why would I live there? <fizzie> That's a *very* good question. <fizzie> Why would anyone? \ 955) <bo
09:33:46 <zzo38> AnotherTest: Yes, I agree with you
09:34:26 <zzo38> Are you atheist, agnostic, theist, deist, pantheist, panentheist, etc?
09:34:50 <ais523> `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)")
09:35:09 <ais523> I'm not surprised that that one's never been quoted
09:35:16 <fizzie> I got both "game" and "mand" when testing privately.
09:35:34 <fizzie> `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") # natural 20?
09:35:42 <HackEgo> ser: 389) <oklofok> drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liquid at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drink <oklofok> olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, because it has bo
09:35:45 <zzo38> Well, if made up at random it will perhaps sometimes make up real words too that is how they do.
09:36:06 <AnotherTest> zzo38: I think I am atheist. Although I like to call myself realist more
09:36:10 <fizzie> "canposer" is a nice word.
09:36:29 <AnotherTest> If someone could give me great proof that God exists, I would probably check it out
09:37:06 <zzo38> There is no proof that God does or does not exist; it isn't that kind of thing. However, do you know ignostic? I am also ignostic, so consider that, too.
09:38:36 <AnotherTest> zzo38: Well, I'm not sure if I understand "ignostic"... but, does it mean that a God if well defined might be possible?
09:38:48 <AnotherTest> Although there is no clear definition of God?
09:39:47 <zzo38> I do not believe in a personal God, in a anthropomorphic God, in a "sky fairy" God, in a God that directly created the world in a few days or whatever, etc. However, I do believe in God (but not necessarily what you mean by "God").
09:40:20 <zzo38> AnotherTest: How would I know?
09:40:52 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/MTIG that's probably not good.
09:41:07 <AnotherTest> Well, I do not believe in the kind of God that created the universe because that seems like a contradiction to me
09:41:10 <Taneb> I have now got 5 stars on all set-list songs on Guitar Hero 3
09:41:45 <AnotherTest> although if someone could proof there was such a god / show observations that point in that direction, I would reconsider
09:42:03 <AnotherTest> But currently, it seems pretty much impossible
09:42:29 <AnotherTest> zzo38: Then in what kind of god do you believe?
09:43:08 <fizzie> Taneb: How many stars are there?
09:43:33 <zzo38> I believe that the universe is part of God, and that you could say God created everything but it would be extremely indirect!
09:43:44 <fizzie> Taneb: I was under the impression that it had some sort of difficulty levels.
09:44:05 <zzo38> AnotherTest: I do not think assigning qualities such as "lazy" and so on to God is meaningful, unless perhaps you mean lazy evaluation.
09:44:07 <AnotherTest> zzo38: So you believe in some sort of multi-verse?
09:44:24 <zzo38> AnotherTest: Yes. However, that too, must be part of God.
09:44:45 <AnotherTest> Hm. Seems a little unending-recursive to me
09:45:47 <Taneb> Now to start on the bonus songs
09:47:32 <AnotherTest> zzo38: what if we're actually in the matrix?
09:48:04 <zzo38> AnotherTest: Then what is the matrix in?
09:49:10 <zzo38> OK. I don't believe we are in the matrix, but of course I don't know; for the sake of the argument I will call it reasonable.
09:49:38 <Taneb> I don't think it makes much difference
09:50:41 <zzo38> It doesn't change what God is, though, in what I mean by that. In what you mean by that, it might, though.
09:51:20 <zzo38> I notice that in a statement "God exists" not only is it not entirely clear what "God" means but also it is not known what "exists" means in this context, either.
09:51:40 <AnotherTest> zzo38: What about the theory where ais523, who came from the year 523 (I have reason to suspect ais523 is actually pope Hormisdas), and then created the matrix where he put us all in?
09:52:26 <zzo38> AnotherTest: I don't think that is likely or reasonable, but it doesn't change it anyways.
09:53:23 <AnotherTest> What if there does not exist a supernatural creature? That's what I like to believe.
09:53:45 <zzo38> I do not mean by "God", some kind of supernatural creature.
09:55:11 <zzo38> No! Physical things are in the universe, the universe is in (maybe) some multiverse, is in ..., is in mathematics, is in ... [infinitely much, possibly?], is in God
09:55:41 <zzo38> Therefore, God is not in spacetime, so it doesn't make sense to say what comes before God, nor what comes after God.
09:56:55 <AnotherTest> Don't you mean: mathematics can be used to describe the universe
09:57:21 <zzo38> I do think I made some mistakes there; I didn't really mean all of that literally like I said.
09:57:35 <zzo38> I just meant that it is all a part of God.
09:57:42 <AnotherTest> So actually you're saying God is the universe set
09:58:16 <zzo38> Yes, mathematics can be used to describe the universe.
09:58:22 <AnotherTest> Well, I'd just call it the universal set then
09:58:35 <zzo38> AnotherTest: That is probably the closest concept you have, but it is not precisely what I meant.
09:59:50 <zzo38> But that is describing with words. Not everything you can describe with words!
10:00:29 <AnotherTest> Well, why wouldn't you be able to answer that
10:01:35 <zzo38> That is difficult. I suppose you could say yes, but in other words it is also no; that is what makes it difficult. I also find it difficult to explain why this is.
10:01:52 <zzo38> (And what I mean by this isn't contradictory.)
10:02:33 <zzo38> I also don't mean that I don't know; even though I don't know.
10:03:09 <AnotherTest> that does sound like a contradiction to me
10:03:35 <zzo38> That is not at all what I meant. I simply am unable to explain what I mean.
10:03:40 <AnotherTest> That would either mean contradiction or it would mean something in between
10:04:20 <zzo38> Actually, I can try a little bit, by asking a question: Can you precisely define what you mean by "consciousness" and "free will"?
10:05:30 <AnotherTest> Well I think conscious could be defined by 1. can it do self reflection 2. can it think of the future
10:06:14 <AnotherTest> as for free will, can it make independent decisions (some people think humans can't)
10:06:34 <zzo38> For 1. I suppose yes; for 2. you still need to define "think" though; furthermore, as to the future, that has to do with time, so what future do you mean, specifically?
10:07:36 <AnotherTest> zzo38: can it plan what it's going to do / should do in the future
10:07:45 <AnotherTest> eg. I can plan making a city trip tomorrow
10:07:59 <AnotherTest> I can even imagine how that would be (roughly)
10:08:00 <zzo38> For independent decisions, it means, independent from what? What is there to be independent from?
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10:08:33 <zzo38> And for the future, that is an error because time is really a function of the universe, not directly of God, surely!
10:09:03 <AnotherTest> zzo38: oh right, I forgot that God was a 1 dimensional being
10:09:23 <zzo38> We always think of times as being some sort of "absolute" even though we have theories to know it isn't.
10:09:26 <AnotherTest> because you can never put n dimension into n-1 dimensions?
10:10:18 <zzo38> I did not mean God was a 1 dimensional being, or really a "being". However, in some cases you can put n dimension into n-1 dimensions, I think.
10:11:44 <zzo38> Maybe 0-dimensional would be a better description, but I am unsure.
10:11:45 <AnotherTest> I think if you want to put an n dimension object into n - 1 dimensions you'd have to make a projection of it
10:12:05 <AnotherTest> which means it would become n - 1 dimensional
10:12:49 <zzo38> AnotherTest: That is one way. However, I can also make a one-dimensional chess game which is the same as the two-dimensional chess game.
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10:13:39 <AnotherTest> zzo38: Really? I'm not sure about that. The basic concept is the same, but it isn't exactly the same right?
10:14:00 <AnotherTest> Also, that's definitely not possible for everything
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10:14:18 <AnotherTest> eg. you can't make a non-animated animation
10:14:32 <zzo38> AnotherTest: Yes, I know, it is not possible for everything. But it is possible; you can look it up if you want to!
10:16:40 <zzo38> Spinoza said "Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived." [7] "Individual things are nothing but modifications of the attributes of God, or modes by which the attributes of God are expressed in a fixed and definite manner." [8]
10:16:51 <zzo38> (These numbers are footnotes in Wikipedia)
10:17:46 <zzo38> The world is not God, but it is, in a strong sense, "in" God. (Also according to Wikipedia; same paragraph)
10:18:02 <AnotherTest> someone else said "God doesn't exist." I guess
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10:19:01 <zzo38> Yes, probably many people have. Probably many people have said "God exists", too.
10:19:29 <AnotherTest> I think it's just a little unlikely how everything is in some abstract entity known as God
10:19:56 <AnotherTest> I think infinity doesn't exist in practice
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10:21:48 <zzo38> I understand you, perhaps you are correct; you can have your own beliefs. But I think mathematics is a "higher reality" than the universe.
10:22:20 <AnotherTest> Well, as long as people don't use god as an excuse for stuff or reason to do something bad, they can think whatever they want
10:22:46 <AnotherTest> Like "oh let's kill them because gods wants us to"
10:23:29 <zzo38> I do agree with you that using God as an excuse for all this stuff is a bad idea; I am against that kind of stuff as much as you are, probably.
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10:48:06 <mroman> !blsq "122333444455555"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++
10:49:45 <AnotherTest> mroman: do you have the pdf for that compression algorithm in English too?
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10:55:02 <mroman> Well. I can write one if you like.
10:58:40 <mroman> I didn't think anybody would be interested in it so I didn't bother with an english one.
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11:16:05 <fizzie> ThatOtherPerson: You need to use a deplancker.
11:16:40 <fizzie> It's this kind of a spray that removes quantum effects.
11:18:40 <Jafet> Sounds like a very fine spray.
11:25:29 <Gregor> It's made of tiny eyeballs.
11:25:47 <Gregor> GET IT? BECAUSE PEOPLE HONESTLY THINK THAT QUANTUM MECHANICS HAS TO DO WITH OBSERVATION.
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12:37:49 <mroman> AnotherTest: Why are you actually interested, if I may ask.
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12:53:51 <AnotherTest> mroman: I'm always interested in new compression algorithms
12:54:35 <AnotherTest> and I needed to compress text some time ago
12:55:26 <AnotherTest> with just really small texts. I want to see whether you can use this in combination with something like gzip though
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13:12:06 <Koen_> oklofok: I should've trained more with your game
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14:02:26 <Gregor> Recently I've been ordering Coke with various syrup flavor shots, because the little shop in the Purdue CS department gives me that option so why not.
14:02:34 <Gregor> Discovery: Coke with coconut syrup is not a good idea.
14:06:37 -!- nooodl__ has changed nick to nooodl.
14:08:29 <atriq> tromp_, oerjan, the translation of the Prime sieve for Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download changes only one half of the IO conventions
14:12:38 <boily> Gregor: how come? coconut usually tastes pretty good.
14:13:00 <Gregor> I definitely like coconut.
14:13:03 <Gregor> ... but not with Coke.
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14:14:16 <tromp_> atriq: right; because primes usees only the output half. it ignores input:)
14:15:13 <atriq> I completely misunderstood what the output was trying to be
14:17:01 <tromp_> i'th char is '1' (ascii 49) iff i is prime
14:17:10 <AnotherTest> What if I brought a bot in that always replied to what fungot said with fungot in the message
14:17:11 <fungot> AnotherTest: went to bed). i have used such a device is a wacom fnord).
14:17:12 <tromp_> otherwise '0' (ascii 48)
14:18:19 <atriq> Until fizzie made it not
14:22:25 <elliott> it would start a conversation for a few lines
14:22:27 <fungot> AnotherTest: s location sucks.)"
14:22:53 <atriq> elliott, what if AnotherTest's bot had a delayer built in?
14:25:36 <atriq> there is a house in new fungot
14:25:37 <fungot> atriq: or the compiler could fnord the machine code requirement, but we need a fnord to use ( fnord function expression*) and ( min)
14:25:41 <atriq> they call the fungot fungot
14:25:41 <fungot> atriq: i wrote an article about that. couldn't have been ' development.' ' a.
14:25:48 <atriq> it's been the ruin of many fungot
14:25:48 <fungot> atriq: i dunno why this is happening
14:25:54 <atriq> and fungot knew was one
14:25:55 <fungot> atriq: ' lo fnord :p.) and humorous, though.
14:26:18 -!- atriq has changed nick to Ngevd.
14:26:20 <lambdabot> Ngevd: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:26:20 <fungot> Ngevd: or the files? sockets? last time i had problem with it
14:26:26 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to atriq.
14:26:28 <fungot> atriq: yet more evidence that catfive is at least memorable. when i use syntax-case i can no longer face the torment
14:26:34 <atriq> elliott, what if it changed nicks
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14:27:48 <AnotherTest> Does fungot base some part of its messages on what's being said? Or just totally random generated text?
14:27:48 <fungot> AnotherTest: i think. i mean when i say you don't want infix function calls.
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14:31:07 <fungot> ThatOtherPerson: says mikrobitti but doesn't mention how one'd get the number of
14:32:02 <ThatOtherPerson> fungot: Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put!
14:32:02 <fungot> ThatOtherPerson: but unload: pop *top fnord if possible from the relevant stacks of stacks of function pointers
14:32:23 <fungot> ThatOtherPerson: the language list
14:40:32 <atriq> ThatOtherPerson, it uses fnord as "I didn't get enough examples of this word so I didn't bother remembering it"
14:43:18 <atriq> Don't type `list, especially in-channel
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14:43:25 <atriq> It'll annoy a bunch of people
14:43:51 <HackEgo> ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb
14:44:13 <atriq> You mayswell type it know, ThatOtherPerson
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14:47:33 <atriq> I wonder how hard it'd be to play dwarf fortress via ssh
14:48:08 <boily> atriq: probably not hard, if I compare that to my experience with crawl.
14:50:48 <atriq> Hey, what's the font Dwarf Fortress uses in its graphical interface?
14:51:57 <boily> a reproduction of CP437 from the elder days.
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14:52:03 <boily> probably fixedsys or something.
14:53:13 <boily> but then, you have stuff like this, confusing the matter: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Tileset_repository
14:58:04 <kmc> wow i missed some deep philosophy
14:59:14 <metasepia> CYUL 031400Z 26021G31KT 30SM OVC200 M03/M13 A2997 RMK CI8 CF TR SLP150
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15:25:45 <kmc> ~metar KBOS
15:25:45 <metasepia> KBOS 031454Z 27019G27KT 10SM FEW050 SCT250 03/M13 A2997 RMK AO2 PK WND 27031/1405 SLP149 T00331133 57010
15:27:32 <Koen_> how did deadfish replace Emmental on the front page
15:27:35 <Koen_> how dit that happen
15:28:39 <boily> kmc: windy for you too?
15:31:33 <boily> generic random haskell question: what is Traversable?
15:31:48 <atriq> It's a fun thing of fun
15:32:00 <lambdabot> (Applicative f, Traversable t) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b)
15:32:05 <atriq> That's the core of it
15:32:23 <atriq> It's something you can map an applicative action over and collect the effects, basically
15:33:36 <boily> ~eval traverse Just [1, 2, 3]
15:33:40 <boily> ~eval traverse Just [1, 2, 3]
15:33:53 <elliott> Koen_: an administrator waved a magic wand
15:34:43 <boily> ~eval traverse (\x -> if even x then Just x else Nothing) [1..4]
15:35:31 <atriq> ~eval traverse (\x -> (Sum x, x `div` 2)) [1..4]
15:36:07 <boily> I think I'm beginning to be illuminated.
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15:36:37 <atriq> ~eval traverse (show x, x) [1..4]
15:36:37 <metasepia> Error (1): Not in scope: `x'Not in scope: `x'
15:36:45 <atriq> ~eval traverse (\x -> show x, x) [1..4]
15:36:51 <atriq> ~eval traverse (\x -> (show x, x)) [1..4]
15:37:31 * boily puts on his glasses of +5 protection from radiance
15:38:29 <oklofok> Koen_: why should you have trained more? are you being tested for astronautship or something?
15:38:33 <atriq> ~eval traverse (\x -> [x, x + 1, x + 2]) (Just 4)
15:38:40 <atriq> ~eval traverse (\x -> [x, x + 1, x + 2]) [1..3]
15:38:40 <metasepia> [[1,2,3],[1,2,4],[1,2,5],[1,3,3],[1,3,4],[1,3,5],[1,4,3],[1,4,4],[1,4,5],[2,2,3],[2,2,4],[2,2,5],[2,3,3],[2,3,4],[2,3,5],[2,4,3],[2,4,4],[2,4,5],[3,2,3],[3,2,4],[3,2,5],[3,3,3],[3,3,4],[3,3,5],[3,4,3],[3,4,4],[3,4,5]]
15:38:44 <oklofok> actually i think you mentioned what these tests are about but i have no idea
15:39:16 <atriq> oklofok, a computer science school that some rich guy is paying for
15:41:04 <oklofok> i'd love a school that teaches these sorts of important skills instead of just testing your ability in them and then teaching you something else
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15:41:33 <oklofok> when i get rich there's gonna be such a school
15:42:11 <oklofok> Koen_'s ability to remember sequences and make pictures out of triangles are being tested
15:44:47 <atriq> ...Martin Freeman will be in all three of the Blood and Ice Cream trilogy
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15:56:40 <mroman> AnotherTest: https://github.com/FMNSSun/noe/raw/master/noe_en.pdf
15:56:45 <mroman> ^- is that good enough?
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15:58:33 <mroman> there are some typos probably :)
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15:59:16 <mroman> and I probably should mention the parameters I used :)
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16:09:30 <mroman> it now includes also some calculations ;)
16:28:51 <fizzie> AnotherTest: Botloops are kind of a channel tradition, but usually (well, I don't have hard stats on this) they're been done using vaguely quine-like tools. There's one really short one in Underload.
16:28:59 <fizzie> (Though regular chat-loops have happened too.)
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16:30:34 <fizzie> Botloops of the first kind are still possible with fungot; it only has the "only reply up to four times consecutively to the same bot" rule for chat, not ^commands. But it also has an ignore list of known bots.
16:30:34 <fungot> fizzie: writing out memoized versions of the program than it's formatting
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16:30:46 <fizzie> (One day I'll adopt the Gregor solution™.)
16:31:17 <fizzie> (That's prefixing every line of output with a zero-width space so it doesn't trigger commands that are triggered with a prefix.)
16:31:20 <elliott> gregor solution is worst solution
16:31:35 <Gregor> fizzie: Actually I only prefix lines that don't match /^[A-Za-z0-9]/
16:32:06 <fizzie> Gregor: That's even fancier.
16:32:25 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|jconn)!
16:32:39 <Gregor> elliott: Don't you mean that your new bot prefix is zero-width space?
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16:44:18 <mroman> AnotherTest: The algorithm can be optimised to perform better on longer texts by using prefixes etc. to encode to length of the positions etc. etc.
16:44:29 <mroman> it however doesn't stand a chance against other compression algorithms
16:44:46 <mroman> I therefore did not describe that.
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17:02:54 <olsner> elliott: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15792934/how-is-merge-and-split-not-in-scope-haskell
17:04:39 <Bike> haskell is so confusing
17:05:55 <boily> as a professional expert confusion consultant, I concur.
17:06:59 <elliott> huh, iain m banks is dying.
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17:08:01 <tromp_> methinks a language that avoids confusion altogether can't beall that great
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17:17:04 <olsner> maybe the best language is one that causes the most possible amount of confusion
17:17:48 <boily> which means that java is pretty poor, but C++ is excellent?
17:19:49 <olsner> there is something to be said for deceptive simplicity though - and I think C++ often seems close to as confusing as it is
17:20:00 <tromp_> it's only goof if the confusion can be overcome and lead to enlightenment
17:20:38 <boily> therefore, the best language out there is lisp.
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17:40:39 <mroman> You meant to say Smalltalk.
17:43:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined.
17:44:25 <Bike> no, i am spartacus
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17:52:56 <Gregor> I'm making a note here: Huge success.
17:56:51 <atriq> It's hard to understate my satisfaction
17:58:29 <Gregor> atriq: I was considering saying that it was hard to overstate my dissatisfaction.
17:58:34 <Gregor> But I was too dissatisfied.
17:58:39 <Gregor> Thank you for doing what you must.
17:59:22 <boily> I exist, therefore I Can-adian.
18:00:06 <atriq> I or elliott exist.
18:00:11 <atriq> elliott does not exist.
18:01:06 <Bike> did that just happen
18:03:04 <atriq> We are not the knights who say ni
18:03:31 -!- monqy has joined.
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18:04:34 <Bike> somebody make an h2g2 joke so i can flop around in shame
18:06:29 -!- impomatic has joined.
18:06:50 <elliott> wait where is the h2g2 joke
18:07:50 <elliott> the mattress planet. AM I HELPING
18:07:57 * Bike flops all over elliott
18:08:04 <monqy> were you around yesterday when Koen_ told us all about the 42 institute of computer science and horrible nerd culture
18:08:32 <Bike> you're right i'll have to flop all over him too
18:08:36 <monqy> is that a yes or a yeesh
18:08:51 <elliott> monqy: oh boy what did i miss
18:09:03 <monqy> i guess i forgot to tell you to check the logs
18:09:16 <olsner> "In Finland we have a saying: ‘Pitäkää tunkkinne’. It means: I fucking tried to pay for this, but your service only promotes piracy through rather expensive pricing, shitty image quality — and, well, unfortunately also your programs are unnecessarily late."
18:09:20 <monqy> i liked h2g2 when i read it!! i read it a lot of times i own the complete edition with all the books it's big and....blue?
18:09:21 <Bike> i like monty python and portal too
18:09:29 <olsner> ... finnish is quite terse
18:09:33 <elliott> monqy: ye i own a combined one too (possibly the same one? i dont think its blue)
18:09:40 <monqy> well there are 2 combined ones
18:09:43 <monqy> one is green and one is blue
18:09:44 <Bike> The one with the grinning circle on the cover?
18:09:51 <Bike> That's the one I've got.
18:09:51 <monqy> both have a grinning circle
18:09:52 <elliott> ok you know more about combined h2g2 editions than me monqy
18:10:04 <Bike> the grinning circle is green?
18:10:12 <monqy> the grinning circle can also be blue
18:10:23 <Bike> ok well i have the green circle one
18:10:28 <monqy> i have to find my copy then i can tell you all about how it's exactly the same except it's blue and has another book in it
18:10:45 <Bike> mine has the uh, young zaphod gets stoned, or whatever it's called
18:10:47 <elliott> i actually don't mind the tired h2g2 references unless they're really really tired like 42 b/c it's just nice to see it
18:12:39 <monqy> unfortunately the only reference anyone can fucking bother with is 42 soooooooooooooooo
18:13:06 <elliott> monqy: um there's also almost but not entirely unlike X
18:13:09 <Bike> elliott: the koen Thing in question is http://www.42.fr just so you know
18:13:23 <elliott> hanging in the air the way bricks don't
18:13:27 <Bike> something about whales?
18:13:30 <Bike> oh or the drink
18:13:37 <Bike> getting smashed in with a golden brick or whatever?
18:13:52 <elliott> there's also MarvinPA [laugh track]
18:14:02 <elliott> (rest of the channel that isnt monqy: ignore above line)
18:14:44 <elliott> Bike: what the heckers is this
18:15:18 <Bike> some french internet guy doing a learny thing
18:15:20 <monqy> uuuuugh i forget where i put it ~all those years ago~
18:15:35 <Bike> filled with Nerd Jokes apparently
18:16:14 <kmc> yeah it's not that nerds like bad things, it's that we like good things and run them into the fucking ground
18:16:26 <kmc> although I may be just as guilty of this as anyone else
18:16:40 <metasepia> Forty-two is a 1945 clone which can be scripted in Guile (GPLv3, Games).
18:16:57 <boily> ~duck answer to universe
18:16:58 <kmc> elliott: do you remember when the word "grok" was actually a useful neologism and not just a pretentious synonym for "know"
18:17:11 <Bike> what did it mean
18:17:12 <kmc> well probably not because it was like 10 years before either of us was born but,
18:17:24 * Bike stopped reading that book once!
18:17:30 <atriq> (kmc is about the same age as elliott?)
18:17:31 <kmc> 'Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man.'
18:17:33 <elliott> I don't mind grok that much idk
18:17:36 <kmc> no i'm older
18:17:39 <kmc> elliott: i see it a lot
18:17:47 <kmc> it's a job posting cliché, almost as much as ninja rockstar
18:17:47 <metasepia> grok definition: to understand profoundly and intuitively.
18:17:56 <Bike> yeah that just sounds like "know really well" to me idk
18:18:08 <atriq> ...I've been using "grok" to mean "come to understand"
18:18:16 <elliott> kmc is like twice as old as me or something
18:18:28 <kmc> job postings are largely about companies signalling that they're cool and integrated with 'nerd culture'
18:18:42 <Bike> maybe if i like actually read Strange
18:18:49 <kmc> i didn't read it either
18:18:49 <Bike> have any of you done that? kmc?
18:19:02 <atriq> kmc is almost as old as I've been mistaken to be
18:19:15 <olsner> that kind of job posting is usually an instant disqualification
18:19:23 <atriq> Saying that, I've been to a pub and ordered alcohol wearing a fake beard
18:19:33 <kmc> how old are you actually atriq
18:19:43 <atriq> Old enough to legally drink
18:19:44 <olsner> and I think using "grok" in one of those is completely different from using grok in almost any other circumstance
18:19:47 <boily> 18 and 25... noted.
18:20:02 <kmc> gah i'm old
18:20:08 <atriq> boily, I do announce my birthday when it comes round
18:20:15 <kmc> and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
18:20:35 <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo")
18:20:46 <Bike> COMBINING_WALL_ABOVE
18:20:47 <elliott> `addquote <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo")
18:20:47 <kmc> one day i may even be 42 years old
18:20:52 <HackEgo> 1007) <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo")
18:20:58 <elliott> maybe i should include the rest
18:21:05 <HackEgo> *poof* <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo")
18:21:08 <Bike> the rest is just lyrics
18:21:10 <kmc> nah then it's just embarssing
18:21:16 <elliott> `addquote <kmc> and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun <kmc> ♫ <kmc> ♫ ♫ ♫ <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo")
18:21:23 <HackEgo> 1007) <kmc> and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun <kmc> ♫ <kmc> ♫ ♫ ♫ <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo")
18:21:25 <kmc> now i'm embarassed
18:21:27 <kmc> look what you've done el
18:21:35 <Bike> i've got a bike, you can ride it if you like
18:21:43 <atriq> `logs <atriq> * cigar
18:21:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found
18:21:49 <atriq> `pastlogs <atriq> * cigar
18:21:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found
18:21:51 <olsner> hmm, I don't think I've realized that song has lyrics before
18:21:54 <atriq> `pastlog <atriq> * cigar
18:21:56 <ThatOtherPerson> 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42
18:22:02 <kmc> have a cigar?
18:22:06 <Bike> person could you just like
18:22:20 <kmc> BUT WHO WAS PERSON
18:22:21 <elliott> i was mentally ignoring him
18:22:25 <atriq> kmc, I don't any more
18:22:30 <Bike> yeah me too but it's getting long now
18:22:40 <kmc> > let fib n = 42 in map fib [1..]
18:22:41 <elliott> like i don't think i even saw the first one?
18:23:17 <atriq> Trivia: I have a cousin who is just like me, except Australian and somehow less awesome.
18:24:06 <boily> we're at 1007 quotes?
18:24:58 <Bike> > let fib n = case n of {0 -> [42]; 1 -> [42]; n -> fib (n - 1) ++ fib (n - 2)} in fib 42
18:25:34 <HackEgo> 1000) <oerjan> `quote 1000
18:25:34 <atriq> ThatOtherPerson, it's positively correlated
18:25:37 <elliott> ThatOtherPerson: presumably non-inversely
18:25:42 <elliott> or it wouldn't be "somehow"
18:25:52 <HackEgo> 999) <kmc> ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] <kmc> Domain Name System [...] <kmc> ♫ domain name system ♫
18:26:18 <elliott> domain name system surrounded by two pink floyd guitar solos
18:26:27 <HackEgo> 1) <Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her.
18:26:28 <HackEgo> 999) <kmc> ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] <kmc> Domain Name System [...] <kmc> ♫ domain name system ♫ \ 1007) <kmc> and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun <kmc> ♫ <kmc> ♫ ♫ ♫ <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guita
18:26:30 <boily> kmc: you've become a little bit too melodious than socially acceptable lately. anything happened in your life?
18:26:38 <kmc> not really
18:27:00 <atriq> ThatOtherPerson, you came after itidus20.
18:27:08 <atriq> He was an awesome Australian
18:27:13 <HackEgo> 405) <itidus20> to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent <oklopol> for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 426) <itidus20> monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 427) <monqy> itidus20: i s
18:27:31 <olsner> hmm, what happened to itidus?
18:27:42 <atriq> olsner, had a row with Phantom_Hoover or something
18:28:41 <HackEgo> 427) <monqy> itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him.
18:30:13 <HackEgo> 42) <GregorR-L> If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... <GregorR-L> I'd call it jabbear.
18:30:35 <HackEgo> 125) <pikhq> INTERNET <coppro> YAY <cpressey> Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 157) [spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. \ 171) <Gregor> "* There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is
18:36:25 <HackEgo> 93) <fungot> alise: why internet is like wtf \ 113) <ais523> reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays <ais523> after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it \ 125) <pikhq> INTERNET <coppro> YAY <cpressey> Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 217) <zzo38> ais523: Maybe it
18:37:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
18:37:31 <HackEgo> 1) <Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 2) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 4) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> roc
18:38:23 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes
18:39:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18531
18:41:20 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1"; else allquotes; fi | paste
18:42:18 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31267
18:44:29 <HackEgo> 959) <Taneb> I'm a story about the prohibition of chocolate
18:44:40 <atriq> Trivia: that made perfect sense in my head
18:44:46 <atriq> And I still know what I was on about
18:46:46 <HackEgo> 940) <olsner> boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world \ 941) <elliott> ~eval 1+2 <cuttlefish> Error (127): <elliott> this is a great bot boily i love it \ 950) <boily> not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. \ 953) <boily> ais523: I'm not sure my
18:47:52 <boily> ok. nothing perverted and or of a purple tinge happened in my numerous absences. my paranoïa is satisfied.
18:50:31 <HackEgo> 897) <Taneb> That's the problem with Tumblr <Taneb> All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people
18:50:46 <atriq> That's simultaneously very me and very not me
18:52:23 <AnotherTest1> atriq: why did you change your name to atriq again
18:52:45 <atriq> Look who else is in the channel
18:56:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:57:19 -!- augur has joined.
18:57:42 <atriq> My computer's on upstairs and set to auto-reconnect
18:58:16 <atriq> I could ssh in and kill the process but there's not much point because I'm heading upstairs in a few minutes
19:01:49 <elliott> atriq: /msg nickserv ghost taneb
19:01:49 -!- SDr has changed nick to sdr|Flu.
19:02:03 <atriq> elliott, wanna see what happens?
19:02:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services).
19:02:16 <atriq> Now wait a couple of secs
19:02:31 -!- Taneb has joined.
19:03:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services).
19:03:12 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb.
19:03:35 -!- atriq has joined.
19:03:50 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:04:06 <Taneb> My and atriq are having a fight to the death
19:04:44 <oerjan> you should pick up tips from hulk and dr. banner, then
19:05:06 <Taneb> If it's gonna progress it will involve running up and down stairs
19:05:29 <oerjan> Taneb: no gamma rays? boring.
19:05:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
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19:11:19 -!- Taneb has joined.
19:12:13 <shachaf> atriq or two and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends
19:13:07 <oerjan> `run grep -i leijon wisdom/*
19:13:07 <boily> ~duck nepeta leijon
19:13:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/shachaf:shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
19:13:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:13:19 <oerjan> shachaf: are you saying you are atriq
19:13:52 <boily> I wouldn't be surprised. no way there are enough people in this world for having a distinct shachaf to an atriq.
19:13:56 <shachaf> oerjan: no, i'm saying that and cosplaying Nepeta Leijoin on weekends is a popular things to do
19:14:13 <shachaf> atriq's puns are not fun enough to be me
19:14:14 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb.
19:14:49 -!- ThatOtherPerson has changed nick to atriq.
19:14:55 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules)
19:15:07 <HackEgo> n!?[5ru/[wBؙ<ܩT[m{q"s_XKШ?YVfF$}q[A-3.."TwK&⒯wE)װan*Wz7LtJ*q\8E6vT[!_.ϲͅ;LG{2UIoP~7b殽*@@#A. f}BgA{qjz0bz"^BtqEAkuL{t/@=FH+=WJf.ޘD^@]߷Q<M
19:15:19 <atriq> Bike: that's actually a special case
19:15:27 <Taneb> `run ? ngevd | paste
19:15:45 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12841 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 12: 299 File size limit exceededcat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM"
19:15:52 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom/ngevd
19:16:20 <atriq> oerjan: Thank you.
19:16:27 <HackEgo> bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \
19:16:37 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 25 Mar 31 19:00 wisdom/ngevd
19:16:38 -!- atriq has quit (Disconnected by services).
19:16:49 <Taneb> ONLY I MAY BE ATRIQ
19:16:51 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq.
19:17:05 <Bike> i hope you're actually running up and down the stairs
19:17:08 <shachaf> `run rm -f --force wisdom/ngevd --force
19:17:09 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined.
19:17:12 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson.
19:17:29 <atriq> `file wisdom/Ngevd
19:17:33 <HackEgo> wisdom/Ngevd: ERROR: cannot open `wisdom/Ngevd' (No such file or directory)
19:17:55 <shachaf> atriq: did you see what it said
19:18:11 <fizzie> (It now adds a ! at the end if one does not exist.)
19:18:38 <HackEgo> Not to be confused with substructural typing.
19:18:41 <HackEgo> Not to be confused with structural subtyping.
19:18:59 <atriq> "ngevd more like ein gedi"
19:19:01 <Bike> good ol' maths
19:19:11 <shachaf> atriq: what does that even mean
19:19:41 <Bike> it's friesian for "a butt"
19:20:56 -!- AnotherTest1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
19:21:30 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
19:21:49 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/Ngevd: No such file or directory
19:22:03 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: wisdom/ is uniformly lowercase
19:22:19 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/ngevd: No such file or directory
19:22:20 <oerjan> however i believe that file is actually gone.
19:22:22 <shachaf> `run ls wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]'
19:22:24 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.
19:22:24 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
19:22:34 <shachaf> `run ls ./wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]'
19:22:37 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.
19:22:49 <shachaf> `run /bin/ls wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]'
19:22:54 <HackEgo> ais523 \ america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bike \ bird \ boily \ bonvenon \ bookwatching \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ category \ category-helpdesk \ certainly \ certainty \ claustrophobia \ coffee \ color \ colour \ comedogenic \ comonad \ conspirabiology \
19:22:57 <Bike> it's security, shachaf
19:23:07 <HackEgo> ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information.
19:23:13 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/ngevd': No such file or directory
19:23:16 <shachaf> oerjan: why didn't my grep work
19:23:19 <Bike> i like this discussion
19:23:27 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: um you should _really_ take a look at bin/? before doing that
19:23:34 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover doesn't care
19:23:40 <elliott> actually that will be pointless regardless of the argument order.
19:23:50 <Bike> phantom hoover should be a honey badger.
19:24:20 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover is just trying to be annoying as far as i can tell :(
19:24:48 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it was changed so that things don't blow up completely when someone tries to make a list of all the wisdom entries.
19:26:54 <atriq> Wow, I am very very glad I didn't run out of cash last weekend
19:27:15 <atriq> Otherwise I'd be stuck in Sunderland with only an out of date debit card
19:27:29 <elliott> new heights of comedy have been reached thanks to you
19:27:56 <shachaf> can we have more of that in here
19:29:01 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: shachaf just deleted it. otherwise, i just said above.
19:29:26 <shachaf> oerjan: yes well did you see what it said
19:29:33 <oerjan> `run echo Boo! >wisdom/ngevd
19:29:43 <HackEgo> w:也8U]Y[.S5nO&dGv>8,.s[=BORn%*a"4Hcjmtg! qpoC/J:!~(gJCcU \ 949}yr'C.2O9頓z;H\_X!3\@H^i*Xv]g
19:29:56 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%3F
19:32:33 <shachaf> `learn ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼
19:32:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:33:31 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist.
19:38:43 <Gregor> But... but... no True Scotsman steals hats!
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19:58:25 <boily> I love my job. I make phone rings.
19:59:38 <Bike> wats a phone ring
20:01:37 <boily> arenas for ritualized combat between phones. what's a ceremony?
20:04:36 <boily> argh... if I can't subtly try to start a covert round of govende...
20:04:45 <metasepia> word definition: something that is said.
20:05:35 <atriq> Any of you guys play board game online?
20:05:39 -!- carado has joined.
20:05:53 <tromp_> i watch board games online
20:06:01 <Bike> I play scrabble online sometimes.
20:06:03 <atriq> http://www.boardgame-online.com/g/game.php?g=cYbq&k=qJX
20:06:48 <atriq> It's an online boardgame
20:06:52 <atriq> Called boardgame online
20:07:20 <boily> isotropic is dead. now there's only that blasphemous infamy left to play dominion online.
20:09:14 <nooodl> "I'm a guy! I have a penis." ........
20:09:51 <Bike> I'm a guy! I have two penises
20:10:02 <nooodl> "I'm not sure what I am." omg this is so blatantly transphobic jesus
20:10:44 <Bike> seriously is this some kind of dating service game
20:11:27 <tromp_> not sure should be two other choices " I have both" " I have neither"
20:11:29 <monqy> is this about that board game online
20:11:48 <ThatOtherPerson> atriq: what is that and what does it have to do with Homestuck
20:11:50 <Bike> oh god what is this even saying help i am not good with computers
20:12:12 <monqy> "I'm a girl! I have boobies." um
20:12:34 <Bike> i have seven pet boobies. they fly around for me
20:12:45 <atriq> ThatOtherPerson, it's an online board game
20:12:55 <atriq> A lot of people playing this instance read Homestuck
20:13:15 * Fiora o_O what is going on
20:13:27 <monqy> im learning about homestuck
20:13:35 <atriq> It's a really weird online board game
20:13:36 <Fiora> what does this have to do with homestuck? @_@
20:13:57 <Bike> fiora has like nine penises, all in hermeneutic jars for later study
20:14:13 <ThatOtherPerson> Fiora: I clicked all the buttons and was taken to some chat thingy where people were talking about Homestuck characters
20:14:15 <monqy> but science needs them now
20:14:20 <Bike> hm that should be "hermetic" shouldn't it
20:14:33 -!- Fiora has left ("I don't understand").
20:16:11 * boily unleashes the eldritch (and cyclopean and grotesque) squiddly powers of metasepia towards bike
20:16:45 <boily> “GO FORTH, MY MINION, AND OBLITERATE THAT HEATHEN FROM THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH, ESPECIALLY HEXHAM!”
20:19:49 <oerjan> <boily> Gregor: how come? coconut usually tastes pretty good. <-- this is a public announcement to remind you that Gregor doesn't have a sense of taste hth
20:20:23 <Gregor> oerjan: Oh come on, we're talking about SODA here.
20:22:43 <oerjan> <Bike> hm that should be "hermetic" shouldn't it <-- darn i was so wondering what a hermeneutic jar is
20:22:54 <boily> ~duck hermeneutics
20:22:55 <metasepia> Hermeneutics, broadly, is the art of text interpretation.
20:23:30 <Bike> oerjan: probably like the jar the nag hammadi library was found in.
20:24:32 <kmc> i hope Fiora will come back sometime
20:25:12 <oerjan> ThatOtherPerson: it helps if it's actually present
20:25:25 <oerjan> shachaf: WHAT DID YOU DO TO LAMBDABOT
20:25:40 <boily> someone found a way to kill lambdabot?
20:26:14 <oerjan> boily: i suspect it's not particularly hard if someone actually tried
20:26:30 <boily> well, my is always there to be readily killed.
20:26:42 -!- ThatOtherPerson has changed nick to my.
20:26:47 <boily> (granted, I have full access to a good C-c aimed at it...)
20:26:58 <oerjan> ~eval unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce + 2
20:27:12 * boily grabs metasepia from Bike and redirects its fury towards my
20:27:23 <oerjan> boily: that's a _little_ concise for an error message
20:27:35 <boily> I know. sometimes it works, most often not.
20:27:59 <boily> be subjugated in front of its zen-like approach to error handling!
20:28:05 <oerjan> boily: you might join lines, or something
20:28:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:28:48 <oerjan> ~eval unsafeCoerce False ++ "hm..."
20:28:49 <metasepia> Error (1): Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce'
20:28:57 <oerjan> that _might_ explain it.
20:29:34 <boily> lucky you! you got a full error message!
20:29:40 <Bike> ~eval Unsafe.Coerce
20:29:41 <metasepia> Error (1): Not in scope: data constructor `Unsafe.Coerce'
20:29:48 <Bike> ~eval import Unsafe.Coerce
20:29:49 <metasepia> Error (1): <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `import'
20:30:05 <Bike> kmc: she's just afk right now
20:30:58 <my> ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval
20:30:59 <metasepia> Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~eval
20:31:18 <my> ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval
20:31:19 <metasepia> Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~eval
20:31:27 <my> ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval
20:31:27 <metasepia> Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context:
20:31:33 -!- Fiora has joined.
20:31:40 <my> Fiora: hey!
20:31:52 <oerjan> errors and patterns and syntax, oh my!
20:32:24 <nooodl> why is unsafeCoerce in haskell
20:32:38 <my> Fiora: Have you been enlightened by the glorious brightness of Oz yet?
20:32:53 <my> s/Oz/understanding
20:32:54 <Bike> nooodl: it's an implementationy extensiony thing.
20:33:13 <Bike> Everything's in ghc.
20:33:50 <shachaf> nooodl: well where else would you put it
20:33:57 <oerjan> nooodl: so you can convert between things that have the same type/same internal representation but the type system is not powerful enough to prove it
20:34:00 <Bike> there is a standard unsafeLocalState though
20:34:02 <kmc> a canonical use case (and one the GHC docs actually guarantee is safe) is converting between a newtype and underlying type
20:34:21 <kmc> also converting from a type to Any and back to the same type
20:34:27 <kmc> which is used in the implementation of Data.Dynamic
20:34:47 <kmc> but mostly it gets used for weird hax to make libraries faster by knowing way too much about GHC internals
20:34:54 <shachaf> Presumably you could also implement Data.Dynamic with an existential Typeable value?
20:35:14 <nooodl> oerjan's line sounds more interesting!
20:35:26 -!- variable has joined.
20:35:26 -!- variable has quit (Changing host).
20:35:26 -!- variable has joined.
20:35:31 <Bike> oerjan's line and kmc's lines are in fact..... the same
20:35:46 <shachaf> note that unsafeCoerce :: New -> Old may be safe but unsafeCoerce :: f New -> f Old isn't :'(
20:35:53 <boily> there exist a natural transformation between oerjan and kmc.
20:35:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:36:52 <nooodl> it's cute when people put effort in their s/// regexes
20:37:40 <boily> s/effort/logic and sanity/
20:39:45 <nooodl> lambdabot is back in #haskell but not in #esoteric... what a jerkbot
20:40:49 <oerjan> nooodl: maybe it got reset a couple years again
20:42:10 -!- lambdabot has joined.
20:42:44 <elliott> shachaf: you realise lambdabot just takes ages to join every channel right
20:43:10 <nooodl> did you mean "nooodl: "
20:43:11 <shachaf> elliott: hey i trusted oerjan
20:43:48 <kmc> jerkbot 5000
20:44:07 <nooodl> also, how many channels is lambdabot in?
20:44:33 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
20:44:45 -!- augur has joined.
20:45:03 <lambdabot> ##crypto ##freebsd ##logic ##proggit ##unavailable ##villagegreen #agda #codez #darcs #diagrams #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs #
20:45:03 <lambdabot> haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-game #haskell-in-depth #haskell-lens #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell.
20:45:03 <lambdabot> dut #haskell.es #haskell.se #haskell.tw #learnanycomputerlanguage #ledger #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix #unicycling #xmonad #yi
20:45:15 <Bike> haskell-freebsd
20:45:18 <shachaf> that command list is outdates
20:45:19 <Bike> gentoo-haskell
20:45:31 <shachaf> lambdabot: what are your real commands
20:45:34 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add
20:45:35 <lambdabot> djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune
20:45:35 <lambdabot> fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma
20:45:35 <lambdabot> karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline
20:45:35 <lambdabot> oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc
20:45:36 <lambdabot> read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc
20:45:38 <lambdabot> topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow
20:45:40 <Bike> scannedinavian
20:45:46 <Bike> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
20:46:37 <boily> uhm, is there only a single global lambdabot instance running, or are they a channel-wise hive conglomerate?
20:46:47 <shachaf> monqy: calling me shcahf is like calling elliott... elitot
20:48:17 <my> lambdabot: You are standing in a great ballroom. It has been lavishly decorated. You now turn into a giant banana split.
20:48:25 -!- my has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson.
20:48:39 <olsner> boily: there can only be one "lambdabot" per network
20:48:54 <shachaf> olsner: well once upon a time there was lambdabot2
20:49:09 <olsner> that's not lambdabot, that's lambdabot2
20:49:20 <monqy> theres also thutubot!
20:49:52 <shachaf> olsner: hey! lambdabot2 is lambdabot too!
20:50:38 <shachaf> monqy: were you raised in a bus?
20:50:38 <ThatOtherPerson> That may be true, but there's not enough lambdabot to go around.
20:50:49 <monqy> shachaf: is that what elliott told you
20:51:03 <shachaf> what elliott told me is between elliott and me
20:52:19 <boily> ~eval let f c = chr . (if c >= 'a' && c < 'n' then (+13) else (if c >= 'n' && c <= 'z' then (+(-13)) else id)) . ord $ c in map f "yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw"
20:53:55 <lambdabot> Either Left Right Maybe Nothing Just Bool False True Void Not Void Monad Eq Bool
20:54:17 <shachaf> like djinn-env but it doesn't spam the channel
20:54:18 <boily> is there a unicode char for a schoolbus?
20:54:36 <shachaf> 1F68D ONCOMING BUS [<U+1F68D>]
20:56:35 <shachaf> hey elliott there's a unicode codepoint for you
20:57:03 <monqy> is there a unicode codepoint for me
20:57:29 <Bike> COMBINING FRIENDSHIP MONQY ABOVE [<U+2E8FF>]
20:57:32 <shachaf> 1F435 MONKEY FACE [<U+1F435>] is that you
20:57:42 <shachaf> 1F648 SEE-NO-EVIL MONKEY [<U+1F648>]
20:57:42 <shachaf> 1F649 HEAR-NO-EVIL MONKEY [<U+1F649>]
20:57:43 <shachaf> 1F64A SPEAK-NO-EVIL MONKEY [<U+1F64A>]
20:58:08 <monqy> those are pretty good
20:58:15 <nooga> dwarf fortress would make awesome use of that
20:58:29 <shachaf> 033C COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW [̼]
20:58:50 <shachaf> you know shachaf means seagull right Bike
20:59:01 <Bike> oh that's real huh
20:59:29 <boily> a bike, a seagull and a bus walk into an above...
21:01:56 <nooga> ad then nooga kicks in
21:02:16 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:02:41 <shachaf> 1F630 FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND COLD SWEAT [<U+1F630>]
21:02:42 <shachaf> 1F631 FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR [<U+1F631>]
21:03:15 <Bike> i wish i had fonts that could actually render anything on the astral plane
21:03:18 <shachaf> 1F70A ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR VINEGAR [<U+1F70A>]
21:03:36 <shachaf> um there's no such plane as "the astral plane"
21:03:46 <Bike> well on any astral plane
21:03:54 <monqy> Unicode Character 'CAT FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY' (U+1F639)
21:03:57 <shachaf> @ask zzo38 are you into alchemy
21:04:13 <shachaf> 1F6AF DO NOT LITTER SYMBOL [<U+1F6AF>]
21:04:15 <shachaf> 1F6AE PUT LITTER IN ITS PLACE SYMBOL [<U+1F6AE>]
21:04:35 <shachaf> 1F625 DISAPPOINTED BUT RELIEVED FACE [<U+1F625>]
21:04:59 <shachaf> 1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND [<U+1F4C8>]
21:05:00 <shachaf> 1F4C9 CHART WITH DOWNWARDS TREND [<U+1F4C9>]
21:05:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:05:02 <Bike> okay i just fell over laughing thanks fizzie
21:05:06 <shachaf> 1F4B9 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND AND YEN SIGN [<U+1F4B9>]
21:05:21 <shachaf> Those are the only three CHARTs.
21:05:41 <Bike> how nippocentric
21:07:11 <oerjan> <Koen_> how did deadfish replace Emmental on the front page <-- elliott edit the template hth
21:07:17 <fizzie> U+1F47D EXTRATERRESTRIAL ALIEN U+1F47E ALIEN MONSTER I'm tempted to go into the character charts to see the example renderings of these. It sounds like there might be quite a lot of variation.
21:07:25 <fizzie> (I only have a UnicodeData.txt to read.)
21:08:18 <Gregor> fizzie: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47d/index.htm , http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47e/index.htm
21:08:26 <shachaf> 1F4D3 NOTEBOOK [<U+1F4D3>]
21:08:26 <shachaf> 1F4D4 NOTEBOOK WITH DECORATIVE COVER [<U+1F4D4>]
21:08:32 <elliott> the decision to render unicode character names in all uppercase was the greatest of the human race
21:08:53 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:09:02 <fizzie> I like the alien monster. It's very monstrous.
21:09:08 <fizzie> Though it looks kinda sad.
21:09:12 <shachaf> isn't that just an octopus or something
21:09:24 <boily> it seems I have a font somewhere that can render the alien face.
21:10:46 <fizzie> U+1F51E NO ONE UNDER EIGHTEEN SYMBOL I parsed this as "(no one) under (eighteen symbol)" and not "(no one under eighteen) symbol".
21:11:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic).
21:11:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, what does that symbol look like?
21:11:28 <fizzie> An 18 in a circle with a \ through it.
21:11:40 <fizzie> I don't know how it signifies the "under" part.
21:11:40 <Vorpal> what about the alien stuff?
21:11:45 <shachaf> Isn't that "no one presently 18"?
21:11:49 <fizzie> Well, Gregor provided links.
21:12:13 <nooodl> U+1F4B8: MONEY WITH WINGS
21:12:18 <nooodl> oh here's my unicode glyph
21:12:18 <fizzie> shachaf: You'd think so, yes. Perhaps it means "under 18" because the \ is under the 18, not on top.
21:12:18 <Vorpal> why the hell did they put this stuff in
21:12:28 <Vorpal> nooodl, example rendering?
21:12:35 <nooodl> the haskell (MONEY WITH WINGS) operator
21:12:38 <nooodl> http://www.charbase.com/images/glyph/128184
21:13:00 <nooodl> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4b8/money_with_wings.png
21:13:00 <Vorpal> oh I read it as "monkey with wings"
21:14:11 <Bike> @let 💸 x y = "enterprise joke"
21:14:12 <lambdabot> Plugin `eval' failed with: Enum.toEnum{Word8}: tag (128184) is outside of bounds (0,255)
21:14:49 <fizzie> In 1F60B FACE SAVOURING DELICIOUS FOOD I don't really see any food being swallowed in the example render -- that's http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f60b/face_savouring_delicious_food.png
21:15:16 <shachaf> 1F612 UNAMUSED FACE [<U+1F612>]
21:15:36 -!- augur has joined.
21:16:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:16:37 <fizzie> Truly, Miscellaneous Symbols And Pictographs + Emoticons together has the bests.
21:16:42 -!- augur has joined.
21:17:36 <fizzie> The rest is just SERIOUS BUSINESS stuff like MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC CAPITAL THETA SYMBOL or MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-3 or CUNEIFORM SIGN KASKAL OVER KASKAL LAGAB TIMES U OVER LAGAB TIMES U or so on.
21:18:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
21:18:06 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:18:39 <oerjan> once again boily chickens out
21:20:06 <fizzie> The cuneiform signs make me worry I'm seeing double.
21:20:17 <fizzie> U+1203D CUNEIFORM SIGN ASH OVER ASH OVER ASH CROSSING ASH OVER ASH OVER ASH.
21:21:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:22:28 <fizzie> It's no ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM but it's still a pretty long name.
21:25:45 <shachaf> it's no CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY either
21:25:58 <oerjan> <monqy> is that a yes or a yeesh <-- it's a yesh and you should read mutts some time.
21:26:52 <oerjan> fizzie: i guess the sumerians liked repeating things until they stuck
21:33:08 <oerjan> <monqy> unfortunately the only reference anyone can fucking bother with is 42 soooooooooooooooo <-- Ah. This is obviously some strange usage of the word "only" that I hadn't previously been aware of.
21:34:39 <monqy> its the usage of "only" that means "it's the one that sticks out like a sore thumb except it's not just a sore thumb it's mutilated and smells bad and makes me want to vomit even though it was once a good thumb it had good origins and it makes me sad that it's not a good thumb anymore"
21:36:56 <elliott> monqy: i think u missed oerjan joke
21:37:54 <monqy> i dont remember h2g2 well enough to pick up most ref.s but i had a vague feeling it might be one just because tyhatd be a dang obvious joke
21:37:57 <monqy> if thats what youre getting at
21:38:00 <monqy> idk if it is one tho
21:38:24 <elliott> have you not noticed all of oerjan's jokes are obvious & that's why they're great
21:38:39 -!- augur has joined.
21:38:43 <shachaf> i wish everyone was like oerjan
21:38:49 <elliott> i'll rely on fizzie's encyclopedic knowledge of h2g2's text to supply The Originalle
21:39:07 <oerjan> elliott: help i'm failing to google any references in what monqy said about sore thumbs
21:39:26 <oerjan> i'm sure there must be some
21:39:32 <elliott> oerjan: it's ok you'll feel better over time
21:39:44 <monqy> i didnt use a reference to my knowledge it was 1000% original
21:40:03 <oerjan> monqy: wow you should write books
21:40:10 <shachaf> that's a lot of originality
21:41:12 <shachaf> 11:13 <elliott> monqy: um there's also almost but not entirely unlike X
21:41:23 <shachaf> elliott you dropped a word
21:41:34 <monqy> stuff like that i can remember.
21:41:44 <oerjan> <elliott> have you not noticed all of oerjan's jokes are obvious & that's why they're great <-- help i'm not sure whether i should be proud or insulted
21:42:09 <Vorpal> oh so that is why everyone hates my jokes. They are too subtle?
21:42:21 <shachaf> Vorpal: wait you tell jokes?
21:42:30 <oerjan> Vorpal: we'd hate them if we noticed them, maybe?
21:42:46 <elliott> it helps if they're funny, also
21:42:56 <shachaf> elliott: ime it doesn't matter really
21:42:58 <elliott> though oerjan gets by fine without that
21:43:12 * oerjan swats elliott -----###
21:43:13 <Vorpal> elliott, hey, I find him funny at times.
21:43:25 <elliott> oerjan's jokes may be worse than I feared then
21:43:25 <oerjan> I'M PRETTY SURE THAT CROSSED OVER TO INSULT
21:43:47 <Vorpal> monqy, well, nobody can be spot on EVERY time.
21:43:56 <Vorpal> monqy, but perhaps I should say most of the time
21:45:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
21:45:39 <Vorpal> Speaking of humor, why is it (on a evolutionary level) that humor exists?
21:46:12 <Vorpal> Also, why is watching physics engines in games spaz out so funny?
21:46:55 <Vorpal> elliott, And speaking of games, I assume you have seen the kickstarter to the Planescape: Torment sequel?
21:47:19 <Vorpal> elliott, if you liked Ps:T: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera
21:47:30 <Vorpal> many of the same guys behind it
21:47:58 <Vorpal> just 50 hours to go so..
21:48:19 <elliott> I haven't even played Planescape
21:48:58 <Vorpal> elliott, tell me at least you played Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale?
21:51:18 <Vorpal> elliott, well take a look at the kickstarter to see if you want to back it I guess then
21:51:39 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well okay, the combat is bad
21:51:45 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, the story however is excellent
21:52:20 <Vorpal> also I should probably call the new kickstarter a spiritual successor rather than a sequel
21:52:56 <Phantom_Hoover> kickstarter is the cornerstone of the spiritual successor industry, after all
21:53:43 <Vorpal> there is also that other game, Project Eternity (by Obsidian, the company that made Fallout New Vegas), which is also a spiritual successor to Ps:T
21:54:12 <Phantom_Hoover> and of course obsidian have a proven track record of delivering on their promises
21:54:27 <Vorpal> I expect that game to be buggy :P
21:55:15 <Fiora> obsidian is kind of legendary for being forced by publishers to release games before they're ready :/
21:55:32 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, but I can think of several good games that Obsidian made, they just required post-launch patching. The actual game (story & game play) is usually good though. Just buggy on launch.
21:55:49 <Fiora> um, yeah, forced, the publisher conrols the release date
21:56:01 <Fiora> the story of new vegas is pretty amazing. bethesda told them not to do QA, because bethesda would be in charge of QA. and then they didn't do QA
21:56:02 <Vorpal> I enjoyed Fallout New Vegas a hell of a lot more than Fallout 3
21:56:07 <Vorpal> though neither was a bad game
21:56:40 <Fiora> new vegas was pretty wonderful. that and KOTOR 2 are the things I think of when I think of obsidian
21:56:41 <Vorpal> Fallout New Vegas just had a massively more interesting setting & story. Much more interesting missions. More interesting characters.
21:56:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, my understanding is that obsidian picked a business model where they were contracted to make a game for a set fee
21:57:05 <Fiora> Phantom_Hoover: the publisher has a lot more control beyond just the price they pay, though
21:57:07 <Phantom_Hoover> and then acted completely obliviously to this by totally ignoring their deadlines
21:57:32 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean New Vegas wasn't just rough around the edges; the entire save system was fundamentally broken.
21:57:39 <Fiora> ? saving worked okay here
21:58:36 <Phantom_Hoover> (Did you play it at release? And anyway that's immaterial, because for a lot of people it definitely was.)
21:58:43 <Fiora> um, yeah, I played it at release
21:59:02 <Fiora> it was a little buggy but it's not like it was skyrim-buggy
21:59:45 <Vorpal> in short, I expect Project Eternity to be awesome but buggy on launch. Torment: Tides of Numenera is however a bit more unsafe card. It could be good. I would guess that a game will come out of that though, since their previous kickstarter (Wasteland 2) is well along it's development. They said that they are working on two games at a time, so that the pre-production team has something to do when the pre
21:59:46 <Vorpal> vious game is in production.
21:59:55 <Vorpal> which sounds reasonable to me
21:59:57 <Phantom_Hoover> I guess I'm just extremely suspicious of the narrative that Obsidian's games are all ruined by publishers.
22:00:23 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean they've made what, six games with as many publishers? And they've all been unfinished messes?
22:00:34 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, same here. I did not play Vegas on release, and I did enjoy it a lot when I did play it, which was probably a year or so after release.
22:00:43 <Vorpal> I have the game of the year edition of Vegas.
22:01:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I loved the shit out of NV, though there were still things Bethesda do better.
22:01:14 <Fiora> Phantom_Hoover: well, publishers being at fault doesn't mean obsidian isn't at fault in any respect, that's not really what I meant, sorry >_<
22:01:39 <Fiora> the best example of a developer totally botching a contract like that though has to be that new Aliens game though :P
22:01:59 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh? Like what?
22:02:38 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I really can't think of anything I liked more in Fallout 3 than Fallout NV
22:03:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Bethesda are actually really good at making environments that are fun to just roam around in.
22:03:16 <Vorpal> hm, not so much invisible walls that I remember, except for the edges of the map obviously
22:03:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh jesus christ, you missed those? I had to mod them out, they drove me insane.
22:03:50 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I did play with unofficial patches and so on of course
22:04:00 <Phantom_Hoover> They were at the top of basically every geographical barrier.
22:04:42 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, hm, I guess I just tried to go around, since climbing over would be wasteful of resources if you role play the game. :P
22:05:19 <Vorpal> after all, if you role play it, or play it on hard enough difficulty, you have to deal with water shortage.
22:05:50 <Vorpal> hm was KOTOR 2 buggy on release? I never played the game.
22:06:03 <Fiora> it was somewhat buggy but there were also like, huge sections of the game uncompleted
22:06:12 <Fiora> with assets there but that got diked out in the final release
22:06:18 <Fiora> I think years later it was completed by fans with an unofficial patch
22:12:03 <fizzie> I got the feeling that Project Eternity was more a spiritual successor to BG (or Infinity Engine games in general) than specifically PS:T.
22:12:52 <fizzie> They also just got the stretch goal of getting the original PS:T lead designer in their team at the Torment/Numenera kickstarter.
22:14:16 <fizzie> And inXile also recently kickstarted Wasteland 2, which could be seen as a kind of a Fallout thing, indirectly.
22:14:41 <fizzie> (I'm quite high up in the backscroll, sorry for potentially repeating things.)
22:15:52 <fizzie> KOTOR II's lead designer is also working for the new Torment.
22:16:12 <Vorpal> <fizzie> I got the feeling that Project Eternity was more a spiritual successor to BG (or Infinity Engine games in general) than specifically PS:T. <-- well yes, true
22:16:28 <fizzie> (I mean, it's the same guy.)
22:17:08 <Vorpal> I do look forward to both Project Eternity and the new Torment.
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22:18:34 <fizzie> The new Torment is so far the only thing I've kicked in the shin^Wstart; other than that I've managed to not get involved with that kind of things.
22:20:02 <Phantom_Hoover> I approve of the general idea of Kickstarter but looking too closely makes me annoyed.
22:20:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Especially after they gave all that money to David "massive jaw" Braben.
22:21:26 <Phantom_Hoover> And they gave all that other money to Peter Molyneux! People are such sheep.
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22:23:09 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what was it that Molyneux kickstarted? Trying to remember
22:23:23 <Vorpal> Not "Curiosity" I hope?
22:23:38 <Vorpal> because that was an utter clusterfuck
22:23:54 <elliott> how did that curiosity thing end
22:24:13 <Bike> https://twitter.com/PeterMolydeux
22:24:41 <Bike> "There is actually nothing in the middle of the cube. It just keeps going on forever #April Fools" hope that answers your question
22:25:24 <Vorpal> Bike, was his statement a joke or the game a joke though
22:25:31 <Vorpal> that could be interpreted either way
22:25:42 <Bike> «Sheffield first revealed Gunhouse, a title about a “house made of guns” that has to “defend some orphans from Alien Invaders.”»
22:25:49 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, thanks, didn't even notice
22:26:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Read the rest of the account's tweet's, they're `the best'
22:26:14 <Vorpal> "@PeterMolyneux's tweets are protected.
22:26:15 <Vorpal> Only confirmed followers have access to @PeterMolyneux's Tweets and complete profile. Click the "Follow" button to send a follow request.
22:26:16 <elliott> ok but seriously did anyone get to the bottom
22:26:23 <Vorpal> is that the real guy? I guess not
22:27:00 <Fiora> MolyDeux is a parody account
22:27:02 <Vorpal> It is https://twitter.com/pmolyneux
22:27:02 <Bike> elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Curiosity_-_What%27s_Inside_the_Cube%3F_layers
22:27:09 <oerjan> @ask atriq <atriq> Trivia: I have a cousin who is just like me, except Australian and somehow less awesome. <-- they live in one of the other two Hexhams, right?
22:27:11 <Fiora> it started by tweeting a bunch of incredibly silly (molyneux-esque?) game ideas
22:27:22 <Fiora> which eventualy started an actual game jam in which people spend a few days actually making some of the silliest ideas
22:27:43 <Phantom_Hoover> My favourite was the driving game where you play as the road.
22:27:45 <elliott> wow this cannot possibly be notable.
22:27:55 <Fiora> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/167882/Postmortem_What_Would_Molydeux__a_global_game_jam_.php
22:28:49 <fizzie> A while ago I watched a LPy thing of Barkley's Shut Up And Jam: Gaiden, and it was really bizarre.
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22:29:11 <Vorpal> elliott, it is however a LIST. Wikipedia loves LISTS and TABLES.
22:29:24 <Vorpal> Also why am I talking like POKEMON games?
22:30:29 <Bike> "5 minute game where you play an asteroid that is headed towards Earth. Everyone hates you. All you can do is talk, what would you say?"
22:30:56 <nooodl_> Vorpal: i think you mean POKéMON
22:31:02 <Fiora> "A game where you can only progress during 3 random minutes every day. It's up to social media to help people play at the right time"
22:31:28 <Fiora> "I want to make a ps4 game that is just a room with locked door that can only be opened if 1 million users are watching you at the same time" XD
22:31:29 <Bike> "It's up to social media" seems topicable
22:31:37 <shachaf> ONLY YOU CAN SAVE THE DAY, SOCIAL MEDIA!
22:32:01 <Bike> "Imagine if you could control an enemy on the console game your child is playing without them knowing via a smartphone?" remains the best
22:32:43 <nooodl_> wow that's giving me great ideas
22:33:17 <nooodl_> games that pretend to be single-player, but parts of the game are being filled in by someone else... you could really screw with players' minds
22:33:41 <Vorpal> nooodl_, you mean like Journey, but covert?
22:34:38 <nooodl_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_(2012_video_game) this?
22:34:53 <Bike> what if the game's difficulty was linked to how many people were dying from wars? players would have to lobby their governments to make the killing stop if they wanted to get past that jump -- look i'm molydeux
22:35:07 <Fiora> "Action game where every time you die you spawn in the same area but 10 seconds in the past. You need to rescue yourself to continue." this... this is aactually amazing
22:35:33 <Vorpal> nooodl_, it is one of those games where the critics start wondering aloud about the line between games and art. Like with Shadow of the Colossus.
22:36:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: It's up to social media | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
22:36:38 <Vorpal> Fiora, amazing idea, but I'm not sure how well it would actually work
22:37:25 <Fiora> oh wow. there's... actually a game in development doing that
22:37:34 <Fiora> http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/03/23/super-time-force-makes-you-cooperate-with-yourself.aspx
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22:39:47 <olsner> oerjan: is #esoteric a social media?
22:40:47 <coppro> Vorpal: I think you that you are talking like HOMESTUCK, which is the MOST GLORIOUS WEBCOMIC
22:41:16 <Vorpal> coppro, I was thinking of the Pokemon games though
22:42:00 <Vorpal> <Fiora> http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/03/23/super-time-force-makes-you-cooperate-with-yourself.aspx <-- that is one weird trailer at the bottom of the page
22:42:21 <Phantom_Hoover> what happens if you plot number of layers of curiosity uncovered against time
22:43:05 <Bike> Fiora: the game trailer promises it will cause the player to physically harm themselves. that's a good game
22:43:26 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well, I guess we would see either how large each layer is, or how many people play it. We couldn't predict how long it would take though, since we don't know the number of layers afaik
22:44:31 <Fiora> antichamber!!!! <3
22:44:45 <Vorpal> it is an awesome game indeed
22:44:55 <Vorpal> very different than other games I played
22:45:50 <Fiora> I just loved how it was like... an open world puzzle game
22:45:52 <Bike> Oh, is it an old engine?
22:45:54 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I really liked that fake count down timer.
22:45:56 <Fiora> and there were so many ways to solve each problem
22:46:14 <Vorpal> Bike, Unreal 3 iirc, but err, there is non-euclidean geometry
22:46:18 <Fiora> and all the time, when solving a problem, there was that feeling of "oh wow this is totally cheating there's no way I'm supposed to do it this way"
22:46:24 <Bike> Real non-eucl- oh.
22:46:25 <Fiora> but you know they probably intended for you to be able to do it that way
22:46:33 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well not on screen at any point
22:46:55 <Vorpal> but yes, there are stuff you can walk around for more than 360 degrees without getting back to the same place
22:46:57 <Bike> Fiora: hypothesis: the developers didn't actually put in any solutions for any puzzle, they just assumed you'd abuse the engine into getting through
22:46:59 <Fiora> it was such a wonderful explorey thing
22:47:14 <Fiora> Bike: it was't like, engine abuse, just solutions that felt really hacky
22:47:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, I did end up having to look up solutions in a couple of places, which really annoyed me.
22:47:27 <Fiora> ... yeah, I did too, in a couple :<
22:47:34 <Vorpal> <Fiora> and all the time, when solving a problem, there was that feeling of "oh wow this is totally cheating there's no way I'm supposed to do it this way" <-- not all the time, but yes, sometimes definitely
22:47:37 <Fiora> it felt doubly worse when they were /so obvious/ in retrospect -_-
22:47:52 <Fiora> like the way to get across that gap labelled "WTF?"
22:47:58 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, had to look up a solution in one place, forgot what it was now.
22:48:04 <oerjan> olsner: of course not, media is plural
22:48:07 <Fiora> I puzzled over it for ages and the solution was just so dead simple
22:48:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I think they could've made it clearer that rectangles would fill themselves in.
22:48:29 <Fiora> I didn't know at the start of the game that I'd get another cube gun -_-
22:48:36 <Fiora> so I got 'stuck' on the things that needed the green cube gun
22:48:39 <Bike> man it really does look like a shinier Mondo Medicals
22:48:45 <Vorpal> Fiora, which one was the WTF one. I played the game like a couple of days after release, so I forgot what puzzle went where
22:48:48 <olsner> oerjan: social medium then, sounds about right for #esoteric
22:48:57 <Fiora> Vorpal: it was a red gap with the text "WTF?" in it, in red cubes
22:49:07 <Fiora> and it had that gas that stopped you from placing cubes there
22:49:16 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, was it the one where you couldn't place blocks? Or the one where the text was blocks?
22:49:22 <Vorpal> there were like both kinds of gaps
22:49:29 <Fiora> and you couldn't do abusiveness like moving blocks in from outside or moving the text
22:49:33 <Fiora> so it 'seemed' like there was no way across
22:49:45 <Fiora> spoiler:the solution is not to go across at all
22:49:54 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, in one place I remember placing blocks below the area I couldn't place blocks and doing a "cheating-feeling" solution to get across
22:50:04 <Vorpal> Fiora, oh right, that gap
22:50:10 <Fiora> I think that was it XD
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22:50:33 <elliott> I was hoping that wold just be more spaces
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22:50:53 <Vorpal> elliott, in Antichamber?
22:51:03 <Vorpal> Fiora, I never quite figured out how to properly use the red gun.
22:51:14 <Vorpal> Didn't always act like I wanted
22:51:21 <Fiora> I think it's like, you just sort of use it to pull the blocks around?
22:51:23 <Fiora> it was kind of tricky though
22:51:32 <Fiora> it took a lot of effort to finagle it into doing what I wanted
22:51:46 <Vorpal> it was the pushing out that was the major issue
22:51:58 <Fiora> one thing I learned quickly was you can't always move the blocks in any direction, since you can only move them towards a spot you can point the gun at
22:52:07 <Vorpal> elliott, did you play the game in question?
22:52:18 <Vorpal> Fiora, well yes obviously
22:52:28 <Fiora> so like, if you're pointing to a block on the floor, you can't use the gun to lift the block up unless there's a wall you can point at
22:52:44 <Fiora> it was kind of nonintuitive at least I felt but it was fun
22:53:24 <Vorpal> Fiora, also I had watched TotalBiscuit's video on youtube before buying the game, so I did know a bit of what to expect at the start. In hindsight the game would have been more enjoyable without that, but I never buy a game without reading reviews or watching initial impressions, so...
22:53:34 <Fiora> I went into it totally blind
22:53:37 <Phantom_Hoover> I think the little red line made that easy enough to grasp.
22:53:38 <Vorpal> (obviously, kickstarters are an exception to this)
22:53:50 <Fiora> I think I pretty much went just off the rockpapershotgun review >.>
22:54:03 * Bike loads up an LP
22:54:11 <Bike> lovin' the inspirational messages all over the place
22:54:16 <Vorpal> Fiora, really his video was from PaX the previous year, and didn't cover it all the way up to the first gun even.
22:54:29 <Vorpal> Fiora, it did help with the red/blue stairs though
22:54:44 <Fiora> I got that one pretty quickly, it made me laugh
22:54:50 <Fiora> I loved it when the game just trolled me like that
22:55:02 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, indeed, but it helped me understand the mindset intended for the game
22:55:02 <Fiora> like the place where you kept going in circles and everything was repeating itself
22:55:07 <Fiora> but if you went like around 5 times
22:55:13 <Fiora> ... it led to the exit anyways
22:55:23 <Vorpal> Fiora, that spiraled inwards though
22:55:38 <Fiora> ?? I guess I didn't notice that
22:55:39 <Vorpal> or do you mean the area with green coloured areas?
22:55:56 <Fiora> ummm there was that one too, but I meant the black and white slowly turning corridor
22:56:05 <Fiora> that went in a circle
22:56:06 <Vorpal> Fiora, I assumed you meant the area with <> sign
22:56:11 <Phantom_Hoover> It'd be interesting to open Antichamber in whatever level editor UE3 has.
22:56:20 <Vorpal> Fiora, that one spiraled.
22:56:36 <Vorpal> Fiora, though not as much as it SHOULD have spiraled to be physically possible
22:57:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, it might be generating the levels on the fly from the perspective of the character in certain situations?
22:57:43 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, though the clean aesthetics would help with splicing, no shadows to worry about for example.
22:58:32 <Fiora> the splicing was kind of amazing, like, the one where you look up, and the floor disappears
22:58:34 <Bike> ooh, the menu's cool
22:58:35 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I mean there might in places not be a level file as such, that the engine reads in an defines as the geometry. Rather the game code could dynamically construct the geometry visible by the player at any given time.
22:58:35 <Fiora> but in the meantime it changed the room's exit
22:59:09 <Fiora> I loved the puzzles that were about looking somewhere
22:59:16 <Fiora> and just. agh. the game was so fun
22:59:20 <Phantom_Hoover> For one thing, it would be a /lot/ of work without a custom-built engine.
22:59:36 <Vorpal> Fiora, those puzzle made me think "how would it physically detect that" though
22:59:43 <Vorpal> but yes, they were kind of cool
22:59:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, I was a bit narked at the puzzle where you have to look at a circle on the wall and walk backwards though.
22:59:59 <Fiora> I loved that one XD
23:00:04 <Vorpal> Fiora, btw, the thing with the pink cube moving in a slit along walls in certain areas
23:00:08 <Vorpal> what on earth was that about
23:00:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Because those circles were all over the place in earlier sections and they'd never had any significance before.
23:00:14 <Fiora> I think I googled about that later
23:00:19 <Fiora> and the official statement was that they literally did nothing
23:00:30 <Vorpal> Fiora, lol, I was successfully trolled then
23:00:41 <Fiora> you saw how they worked though, right?
23:00:44 <Fiora> they'd move only when you looked at them
23:00:46 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> For one thing, it would be a /lot/ of work without a custom-built engine. <-- true
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23:01:11 <Vorpal> and I moved them all along to the end in each case
23:01:14 <Fiora> ah, so, the pink cubes don't do something -now-, but they might do something in a future update? and they are saved ni the savegame file
23:13:50 <oerjan> Koen_: you entered 5 minutes after everyone went silent hth
23:14:22 <Koen_> they were expecting me of course
23:14:38 <Koen_> I'm just back from a representation of a midsummer night's dream
23:14:48 <Bike> a representation
23:14:58 <Bike> that sounds mysterious and probably fun since it's midsummer
23:14:58 <Koen_> isn't that the proper english word?
23:15:09 <Bike> do you mean a performance?
23:15:12 <elliott> i'm imagining great things
23:15:17 <elliott> like a representation in braille
23:15:23 <elliott> just sort of go and look at it
23:15:29 <oerjan> Koen_: what you think is the proper english word never is hth
23:15:29 <elliott> or maybe a representation of it as music
23:15:36 <elliott> a misdummer night's dream you can smell
23:15:44 <Koen_> yeah that tends to happen a lot
23:15:51 <Bike> if you can't smell a performance of midsummer it's not a very good performance imo
23:15:51 <Koen_> so how about you all go silent for five minutes
23:23:08 <Koen_> I'm just back from a performance of a midsummer night's dream
23:23:39 <elliott> I think you mean a representation
23:24:11 <Bike> the part of hippolyta will be played by this integer
23:25:00 <oerjan> what i want to know is whether it was a _unitary_ representation.
23:25:02 <Koen_> I'm not gonna look it up - I trust you guys!
23:25:16 <Bike> a kind of matrix
23:25:22 <Koen_> does that mean it all takes place in the same place and at the same time
23:25:41 <oerjan> Koen_: no, that's greek drama i think
23:25:46 <elliott> Koen_: ps i wasn't being serious
23:26:01 <Koen_> elliot not being serious? do you expect me to believe that!
23:26:12 <oerjan> elliot is always serious.
23:26:38 <Bike> hm a unitary matrix is a "square root" of "unity", that's neat
23:27:01 <oerjan> Bike: um that's not true.
23:27:24 <Bike> oh no conjugate transpose
23:28:12 <Koen_> btw Hippolyta was played by the same actress as Titania - which kinda makes sense since Hippolyta DOESN'T SAY A WORD IN THE WHOLE DAMN PLAY
23:28:22 <oerjan> it's a normal matrix whose eigenvalues are all on the unit circle.
23:28:57 <Bike> that's pretty cool.
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23:30:34 <oerjan> oh that's listed as point 7 on wikipedia
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23:51:31 <Sgeo> So, I guess an educational excersize for me might be for me to write a class Upcastable child parent where upcast :: child -> parent
23:51:36 <Sgeo> And just start writing instances
23:57:28 <oerjan> Sgeo: i think i must ban you for trolling hth
23:58:18 <oerjan> that sounds like stereotypically trying to force OO idioms to work in haskell
23:58:32 <oerjan> which is a common newbie error
23:58:35 <Bike> is that really a "cast"
23:58:37 * Sgeo is not doing it with practical intent