00:00:57 <Bike> he uses "bit" and "baud" in his papers
00:01:03 <Bike> self-sacrifice. shine on, claude
00:01:09 <kmc> nobody uses units named after themselves
00:01:15 <Bike> you make a slightly less stupid future for us all
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00:10:13 <zzo38> If everyone else's name is already taken, then you should name it after yourself, isn't it?
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00:42:28 <sgo38> How important is it to regard clothing's care stuff?
00:42:33 <sgo38> I kind of just ignored it...
00:42:46 <kmc> you mean the stuff on the tag?
00:43:00 <oerjan> if you wash things at too high temp, they may shrink or worse.
00:43:07 <kmc> for regular cotton shirts and such, not important at all
00:43:34 <sgo38> :/ me might have shrunken shirts tomorrow
00:43:53 <oerjan> if you wash red clothes with white, you may ruin the white ones.
00:43:58 <kmc> for certain materials like silk and wool, you do need to do specific things
00:44:08 <kmc> oerjan: usually ok after the first few washes though
00:44:10 * sgo38 doesn't have silk or wool in there I think
00:44:49 <kmc> sgo38: i just have a bunch of normal cotton or cotton/poly blend clothes and I wash them all together (white and black, not much color though) on hot usually, and they're always fine
00:45:33 <kmc> there are particular kinds of stains that require special care
00:46:30 <kmc> for blood stains you should treat it with hydrogen peroxide (when fresh preferably) and then wash it on cold
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00:47:55 <oerjan> old iwc readers may want to know about this http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=7294
00:49:13 <oerjan> it's supposedly even more roleplaying centered than the ordinary ones though
00:54:39 <shachaf> a new innovation for expressing dissatisfaction on irc
00:55:23 <oerjan> it's certainly space saving
00:59:17 <sgo38> doesthiswork, but that doesn't resemble /me
01:00:35 <sgo38> oerjan, will I need to have read regular IWC though?
01:00:40 <sgo38> I haven't read the whole thing yet
01:02:06 <oerjan> sgo38: i doubt it, or else the pyramid readers would have had to as well...
01:02:30 <oerjan> and these strips are not canonical in the regular one
01:03:42 <oerjan> i'm only up to no. 9 myself of these ones
01:04:22 <oerjan> but so far they seem pretty disconnected gag-a-day strips
01:12:56 <oerjan> hm it appears to have a paranoia theme
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01:27:48 <Sgeo> oerjan, some of them, at least
01:28:15 <Sgeo> And by some I mean I just reached #7 which is Paranoia themed
01:29:00 <oerjan> i said that just as i reached the second i found
01:29:35 <Sgeo> The book the GM holds gives the game away
01:30:56 <Sgeo> I vaguely want to play Munchkin
01:31:51 <oerjan> well the point is there was a theme not in the regular comic.
01:34:26 <FreeFull> What's the best nondeterministic programming language?
01:35:51 <Sgeo> Nondeterministic as in gives multiple answers or nondeterministic as in random?
01:37:15 <Bike> if i say "Mercury" will you go look at that and stop asking "best" questions
01:38:10 <HackEgo> BiKe: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
01:38:25 <shachaf> did you learn about profunctors yet ...............
01:38:50 <Bike> You made that up.
01:38:55 <Sgeo> Hey, it's not me asking the 'best' question this time!
01:39:10 <Bike> I... didn't say it was?
01:39:30 <shachaf> Bike: I make a lot of things up, Bike.
01:39:39 <Sgeo> http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/iwc/?strip=19
01:39:43 <Sgeo> I don't get it
01:39:46 <shachaf> One time I made up all of Portugal.
01:39:58 <Sgeo> Is Rolling For Initiative indicative of something?
01:39:58 <Bike> Even the wars?
01:40:02 <shachaf> Sgeo: If you don't get it you should ask the person who linked it in the channel about it.
01:43:03 <oerjan> erm... i _think_ it's rolling for whether you or the opponent gets to do the first action.
01:43:24 <oerjan> or the order if there are more people, presumably.
01:44:14 <nooodl> these are all extremely non-funny
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01:45:33 <oerjan> shachaf: linking it doesn't mean i'm an expert hth
01:47:24 <oerjan> shachaf: i linked the iwc forum pointer to these
01:47:45 <oerjan> nooodl: you may have to like roleplaying to understand much of it
01:48:22 <zzo38> Rolling for initiative is used to determine the turn order, which can sometimes change.
01:49:46 <Sgeo> http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/iwc/?strip=26
01:49:47 <oerjan> zzo38: since this is on the pyramid site most roleplaying specifics are probably for the gurps system, btw (which dmm has always been using afaik)
01:49:52 <Sgeo> That one's awesome
01:50:04 <shachaf> zzo38: What about rolling for terminative?
01:50:31 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you want to be on `olist?
01:50:36 <zzo38> shachaf: I don't think it is needed, since initiative is only for the turn order.
01:50:59 <zzo38> I probably don't need to be on such list.
01:51:18 <Sgeo> zzo38, olist is people who want to be told when Order of the Stick updates
01:51:39 <zzo38> I don't want to be on these lists.
01:59:00 <zzo38> Can DRAM be reset to all bits set? Someone told me it can, but not to all bits clear, and all bits clear is what I am trying to do.
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02:15:11 <kmc> they have pills for that
02:19:14 * Fiora gives shachaf a blanket
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03:23:47 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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05:19:43 <shachaf> 22:17 <lexande> BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE
05:20:13 <Bike> Why would a train ride a bike?
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05:57:52 <zzo38> It would have to be a large bike for the train to fit and not break it. Also, the train has its own wheels, but perhaps they broke, or the engine broke?
05:58:52 <shachaf> zzo38: You should suggest your theories in #cslounge-trains
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07:57:59 <Taneb> My guess is that he's at work
07:57:59 <ais523_> shachaf: ais523_ uses wired connections exclusively
07:58:04 <ais523_> and ais523 wireless connections exclusively
07:58:21 <ais523_> the underscore typically implies that I'm at work, because when I'm borrowing connections from friends, it's normally via wireless router
07:58:30 <ais523_> and because often we need to be on simultaneously
07:58:40 <ais523_> well, that's why the nicks became different
07:58:45 <shachaf> Why not keep an always-on client?
07:58:55 <ais523_> then I assigned them their roles permanently out of stubbornness and whimsy
07:59:12 <shachaf> lambdabot has a theoretical way of linking nicks.
07:59:17 <shachaf> I think it's only half-implemented, though.
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08:22:24 <ais523> that's meant to be the /reliable/ connection
08:22:56 <ais523> looks like the desktop computer crashed…
08:25:21 <fizzie> Wires: not so reliable after all.
08:25:41 <fizzie> Wires: it's what's for dinner.
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09:10:48 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
09:15:56 <HackEgo> uname: invalid option -- 'R' \ Try `uname --help' for more information.
09:16:04 <HackEgo> Usage: uname [OPTION]... \ Print certain system information. With no OPTION, same as -s. \ \ -a, --all print all information, in the following order, \ except omit -p and -i if unknown: \ -s, --kernel-name print the kernel name \ -n, --nodename print the network node hostname \
09:16:14 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
09:16:25 <fizzie> Out of curiosity, what's -R supposed to print?
09:16:39 <AnotherTest> I though it printed the release information
09:17:09 <HackEgo> No LSB modules are available. \ Distributor ID:Debian \ Description:Debian GNU/Linux \ Release:n/a \ Codename:n/a
09:17:26 <fizzie> Ah, Debian n/a, the best distribution.
09:17:58 <AnotherTest> N/A was probably the best version ever released. Really stable
09:23:03 <fizzie> xkcd's subway map thingie looks funky.
09:32:12 <fizzie> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130408-subways_of_finland.png here I maed the same thing of our glorious country.
09:32:24 <fizzie> Also includes: scribbling with a mouse.
09:36:42 <Taneb> Does the US have intercity subways?
09:38:57 <fizzie> I believe some creative license have been taking in connecting those things. (See e.g. "Trolley Rt. 10 to California" from Philadelphia to LA.)
09:39:37 <fizzie> That just got rid of the first letter.
09:40:12 <fizzie> s/.//g would have been acceptable also.
09:41:13 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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11:09:25 <Sgeo> "THIS OIL VACCINE PRODUCT BUSINESS OFFER MAY INTEREST YOU."
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12:19:10 <Rhino> Is anybody in there?
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12:31:13 <fizzie> Just nod if you can hear me?
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12:33:50 <HackEgo> Rhino: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
12:35:00 <Taneb> Rhino, important questions!
12:35:05 <Rhino> Is it possible to discuss different issues here?
12:35:15 <Taneb> Are you from, in, or otherwise associated with Finland?
12:36:01 <Rhino> No, I am not absolutely associated with Finland
12:36:15 <Taneb> (Hexham's in the UK)
12:36:33 <Rhino> Originally I am from Russia
12:36:50 <Rhino> But now I have to live and work in Vietnam
12:37:06 <Fiora> #esoteric is kind of legendarily off topic so it should be okay :p
12:37:08 <Taneb> You're getting progressively further from Finland and Hexham
12:37:54 <Taneb> I'll demonstrate the channel's topicality.
12:38:23 <Taneb> At least Russia and Finland share a border
12:38:44 <Rhino> I see, but I am in Vietnam just now
12:38:56 <Rhino> And I have never been in Finland
12:39:02 <Taneb> This is problematic
12:39:22 <Taneb> Perhaps if you keep going, you'll go round the world the other way
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12:39:52 <Taneb> Fiora, you doing anything for 4/13?
12:40:40 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, yes, I can tell by the vast chasm between the opinions vocalized by my gran and by the rest of my peers
12:41:22 <Fiora> 4/13? oh right, that's a special day
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12:42:17 <Fiora> maybe I'll wear jade's outfit or something?
12:42:25 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, it's month/year, not day/month
12:43:06 <Phantom_Hoover> anyway what does your gran/your peers think of thatcher
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12:43:48 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I live in the north-east of England, a region long associated with coal mining.
12:43:56 <Taneb> Which group do you think has which opinion
12:45:18 <Taneb> They are in the house of lords, after all
12:45:29 <Fiora> I'm not sure what else I should do for 4/13
12:45:51 <Fiora> maybe watch cascde again :p
12:46:10 <Taneb> There's a party happening somewhere near here, but I don't know where it is, if I'm invited, or if I can even make it
12:46:22 <ion> 2013-04 (ISO 8601)
12:46:49 <Taneb> Both, maybe neither
12:49:53 <Fiora> I'm not really a party person
12:52:42 <Taneb> I think Margaret Thatcher must have been the most polarizing politician ever
12:54:36 <Fiora> if you put two polarizing politicians in front of each other, and then like, turn one 90 degrees
12:54:40 <Fiora> do they turn dark?
12:55:12 <Taneb> Sounds like a fun experiment
12:55:25 <Taneb> Except it involves politicians
12:55:54 <Taneb> I also experience long bouts of self-loathing
12:55:57 <Fiora> if I was less lazy maybe I could make a jade god tier outfit or something
12:56:25 <Taneb> Alas, real self-loathing
12:58:14 <Jafet> Fiora: you can't turn the BNP dark this way
12:58:54 <Fiora> let me guess, because they're too white?
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13:04:42 <Phantom_Hoover> there is apparently some confusion on twitter over whether the #nowthatchersdead hashtag refers to thatcher or cher
13:05:12 <Fiora> tag conflicts are amusing
13:05:31 <Fiora> like that wonderful fan war between k-pop fans and holmes fans over the 'sherlock' tag
13:06:32 <monqy> is that cher dead yet
13:06:50 <monqy> partying over thatcher dying seems a bit.......morbid???
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13:40:19 <kmc> what's 4/13
13:41:30 <kmc> ♫ brezhnev took afghanistan, begin took beirut, galtieri took the union jack, and maggie over lunch one day, took a cruiser with all hands, apparently to make him give it back ♫
13:41:44 <Koen_> oklofok: puzzles of the day http://i.imgur.com/JjiX270.png
13:41:44 <fizzie> kmc: It's a STUCKHOME thing.
13:43:43 <Koen_> (to win you have to move once and exactly once through every blue square)
13:44:01 <Koen_> (without stepping outside)
13:49:20 <kmc> "Good thing about #Thatcher: her economic polices led to empty warehouses & so she created raves"
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14:33:47 <oklofok> Koen_: do you know the theory?
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14:39:58 <Koen_> oklofok: well I guess yeah
14:40:04 <Koen_> maybe not all of it
14:40:13 <Koen_> but enough to prove that this one looks impossible
14:40:24 <Koen_> (and it's only level 3 out of 5)
14:41:38 <oklofok> actually on a second thought that's probably np complete, as it's hamiltonian path instead of euclidean
14:43:12 <Koen_> I reproduced the grid on a piece of paper
14:43:33 <Koen_> and with a pen I wrote down all pieces of path that are mandatory
14:43:46 <Koen_> and basically in one area there is necessarily a dead-end
14:44:09 <Koen_> and knowing that there is a dead-end there, we get a necessary dead-end some other place close
14:44:23 <Koen_> thus I don't really know what I'm supposed to do
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14:49:22 <tromp_> where do you play that game? online?
14:52:08 <Koen_> tromp_: it's an online test to... enter a school
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14:55:02 <Koen_> but given the kind of tests I have passed already I wouldn't be surprised if the "solution" was that there actually was an invisible square somewhere, or something
14:55:10 <Koen_> which I would find most stupid
14:57:05 <Koen_> oklofok: basic theory is that I'm only allowed one dead-end, besides the square i'm starting with, right?
14:57:25 <tromp_> i dont understand all the french i'm agreeing to:(
14:57:57 <Koen_> tromp_: they're asking you to certify you're not gonna be lying about the information you input
14:58:42 <Koen_> with the underlying threat that when you physically go to the school they'll find out anyway
14:59:03 <Koen_> that hasn't stopped quite a few journalists to register, though
14:59:15 <tromp_> these multiple choice are tough if u suck at french
14:59:40 <Koen_> tromp_: most are stupid question
14:59:47 <Koen_> like what is your favourite color
15:00:06 <Koen_> who is your favourite person, elijah wood or elijah whatshisname
15:00:32 <tromp_> hmm, a singleton choice questoin:)
15:00:34 <Koen_> I reckon the only one you should be careful with is the one about what an algorithm is
15:00:43 <Koen_> yeah that one was particularly tough
15:00:47 <Taneb> "Descartes... Est un moyen de transport dans Minecraft"
15:01:03 <Koen_> wait, I didn't have that one
15:02:00 <Koen_> ok, they just told me I was done with all the tests, and that if I had passed them out of curiosity I should mention it now
15:02:16 <Koen_> I'm too curious about what follows though :)
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15:08:16 <boily> probably. they were kindly enough to share an album with you.
15:08:18 <oklofok> "<Koen_> oklofok: basic theory is that I'm only allowed one dead-end, besides the square i'm starting with, right?" <<< i was referring to the fact it's very easy to check if there's an eulerian trail/path through a graph. but this is a hamiltonian path, which is much harder.
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15:09:29 <ThatOtherPerson> " a trail in a graph which visits every edge exactly once"
15:10:44 <tromp_> hmm, i'm not gonna get through the sms confirmation
15:11:14 <Koen_> tromp_: if you want you can use my phone
15:11:27 <Koen_> though it's possible they'll notice that number has already been used
15:11:54 <tromp_> dont think i can go back and change my phone number
15:12:30 <tromp_> weird; if u made typo in phone#, you're screwed:(
15:12:31 <Koen_> hmmm well they must have somthing to do to help people who mistyped their number
15:13:18 <tromp_> howmany digits s confirmation#?
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15:14:06 <Koen_> french numbers are 06 xx xx xx xx
15:14:11 <tromp_> i have to enter Code de confirmation
15:14:11 <Koen_> or maybe 07 sometimes
15:14:50 <tromp_> maybe they use same # for everybody:)
15:16:00 <Koen_> on unrelated news I just solved the puzzle BUT THE TEST HAS BEEN OVER FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES
15:16:10 <Koen_> maybe I can send them an email or something
15:17:05 <tromp_> oh, i can enter a new phone#
15:17:08 <Koen_> no I'm still pretty convinced it's impossible
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15:19:49 <ais523> hey, anyone here a fan of semantic markup?
15:20:14 <boily> as in microformats?
15:20:21 <ais523> what I want to ask is, is <table> the correct way to do a form containing labels on the left that line up, matching form elements on the right that line up?
15:20:35 <ais523> thinking about it, I guess the technically correct method involves <dl>, CSS'ed to render as a table
15:20:36 <Taneb> As in the HTML5 stuff?
15:20:43 <ais523> Taneb: or just HTML/CSS generally
15:21:19 <boily> you don't need any table. just “label { display: inline-block; width: 40em; }
15:21:41 <ais523> boily: what if you want the width to autoadjust?
15:21:43 <boily> then you can match a <label for=...> lorem ipsum </label> <input ... />
15:21:50 <ais523> hardcoded widths really annoy me
15:22:12 <ais523> basically because they don't adjust to anything
15:22:12 <boily> instead of 40em, you can put 30%.
15:22:27 <boily> then, it'll match the parent block element.
15:22:29 <ais523> well that's still hardcoded, and arguably worse because now it's adjusting to screen width not font size
15:22:53 <ais523> I can understand a width=50% to do columns or the like
15:23:06 <ais523> but apart from that, I want everything to size to the font or the like
15:23:19 <ais523> one of the top reasons to use HTML for a user interface is that everything sizes to fit…
15:23:33 <boily> you want you label column to fit the width of the longest label?
15:23:37 <ais523> (some other languages get this right too, like Java, but it has other problems)
15:23:52 <ais523> or wrap the labels if there's no room for the longest label and the longest form element
15:24:01 <boily> you can cheat that with some javascript, but it's going to be ugly.
15:24:11 <ais523> or you could use a table
15:24:16 <ais523> I'm just mostly worried about accessibility
15:24:43 <ais523> really what you want is a \begin{align} from LaTeX, but HTML/CSS doesn't have that yet
15:26:00 <Taneb> Things I do when I'm bored:
15:26:10 <boily> ais523: there seems to be a solution here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9325426/css-how-to-create-a-label-width-of-the-longest-containing-text
15:26:10 <Taneb> Write a program that when it's run, it deletes itself
15:26:57 <ais523> boily: oh wow that's broken, if the labels aren't the same height as the thing they're labelling they'll end up mismatched
15:27:13 <ais523> also the reading order is totally wrong
15:27:29 <ais523> perhaps I should give up on trying to do CSS "correctly", it's just not possible :)
15:29:09 <Taneb> The page my router displays when you tell it to restart using its web interface is a table with one cell, which contains a font element
15:29:15 <Jafet> I like how they're trying to implement <table>.
15:29:47 <ais523> Jafet: the thing that started this conversation was "I'm using a table for this atm, is there a more correct way?"
15:30:27 <ais523> the hilarious thing is that I just remembered this was for a debug view
15:30:31 <ais523> so nobody but me is likely to use it anyway
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15:33:07 <Jafet> So tables are semantically wrong for displaying items in a tabular form
15:34:33 <ais523> I guess each of the rows is semantically meaningful, as is each of the columns
15:34:47 <ais523> I'm not sure if the normal table navigation commands are what you'd want to use to navigate it, though
15:35:40 <ais523> btw, this is for the jsondb stuff
15:35:55 <ais523> I actually have it working a way I really like now, working many-to-many joins and everything
15:36:08 <ais523> and an interface that's way nicer on me than SQL would be
15:36:13 <ais523> because it can imply many of the joins itself
15:36:59 <ais523> meanwhile, I'm also getting slightly better at reading Cyrillic
15:37:08 <ais523> occasionally I can make out an English loanword even if all the letters are different
15:37:25 <coppro> parliamentary privilege is fascinating
15:37:43 <ais523> coppro: has someone just used it dramatically?
15:38:16 <Koen_> tromp_: how are you doing so far?
15:39:25 <ais523> the first letter's a v
15:39:28 <Taneb> (actually an English loan word, sort of)
15:39:57 <Taneb> Roughly, "Vauxhall"
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15:40:02 <Taneb> It means railway station
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15:46:26 <tromp_> Koen: see private chat
15:46:40 <Taneb> I'm gonna wander off now, perhaps
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16:02:43 <coppro> I was referring to the general matter, though
16:03:00 <ais523> it's an interesting choice of thing to randomly become interested in :)
16:03:06 <coppro> ais523: Although I can't remember if I told you about Mr. Warawa and his motion on sex-selective abortion
16:03:10 <coppro> it's not particularly random
16:03:14 <coppro> I've just been investigating it more
16:03:18 <ais523> was he in favour of it or against it?
16:04:05 <coppro> so the relevant context is that the House considered and defeated a motion to strike a special committee to investigate the legal definition of when life begins
16:04:39 <coppro> now, Mr. Warawa submitted a private member's motion to condemn sex-selective abortion (and take no action
16:05:25 <ais523> was this related, and/or an attempt to exploit a loophole?
16:05:50 <coppro> neither was overtly an attempt to ban abortion, however
16:06:29 <ais523> I'm reminded of something that happened in guild council, where there were basically people trying to pass motions to make the guild take an opinion in the israel vs. palestine conflict
16:06:42 <ais523> and I basically tried to scam guild council into making all the motions fail
16:07:00 <ais523> the chairs caught on to what I was doing and stopped it, although they didn't realise it was intentional until after the meeting
16:07:43 <coppro> Now, it is the rule and practice of the House that all private members' business must be screened before a subcommittee of the committee on procedure and house affairs to determine whether or not it is similar to business already brought up, or before the Senate
16:08:23 <coppro> effectively just verifying that it isn't the same as business already considered
16:08:26 <ais523> btw, should we take this conversation to ##nomic where it's actually ontopic? that way it'd be more likely for other people to chip in
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16:35:13 <fizzie> Grumble grumble "You must take the following steps before you can proceed: 1. Check your email for a message from MathWorks. 2. Click on the verification link in this email." but what if there is no message?
16:35:33 <ais523> fizzie: then you can't proceed
16:35:41 <fizzie> But I want to proceed. :/
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16:45:45 <elliott> 12:39:55: <Phantom_Hoover> hmm, thatcher died
16:45:51 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: am I allowed to celebrate just this once
16:47:13 <kmc> UK is now going through what the US went through when Reagan died
16:47:26 <kmc> tons of sickening respect from official channels
16:47:40 <kmc> but everyone saying "actually they were a prick" in informal or "opinion" channels
16:48:00 <kmc> i don't know how their approval ratings at death compared though
16:48:15 <kmc> (right before they died, I mean)
16:48:34 <ais523> kmc: margaret thatcher's approval ratings have been pretty low for ages
16:48:59 <kmc> Reagan is still seen by many as Republican Jesus, second only to actual Republican Jesus
16:49:14 <Bike> supply-side jesus is a hero
16:49:15 <kmc> (not be confused with actual Jesus, who said we should help the poor and stuff)
16:49:37 <kmc> trickle down jesus
16:50:11 <Bike> http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/franken/ssj01.html if anyone hasn't seen it
16:51:14 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, well i mean in... most of the uk that isn't the home counties thatcher is intensely hated
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16:52:05 <elliott> 13:06:50: <monqy> partying over thatcher dying seems a bit.......morbid???
16:52:05 <elliott> 13:07:06: <Phantom_Hoover> yes, i think it's a bit tasteless myself
16:52:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: i can think of another morbid, tasteless thing
16:52:44 <Bike> Bah. http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html
16:53:07 <kmc> Bike: four oh four
16:53:58 <Bike> http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2003/09/The-Gospel-Of-Supply-Side-Jesus.aspx here have a terrible link
16:54:32 <Gregor> The Gospel of Supply-Side Jesus. Man, gotta read this.
16:54:57 <Bike> are you fucking serious
16:55:13 <Bike> whatever just google "supply side jesus" it's just a comic in one of franken's books
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17:00:17 <kmc> invading italy? hope elephants help
17:00:21 <kmc> (spoiler: they don't)
17:01:57 <Bike> i think they worked alright in ethiopia
17:02:20 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: home counties means the area around London, but not London itself?
17:02:47 <ais523> kmc: it means the counties that are near enough london to contain parts of it
17:02:49 <Bike> i was assuming it meant the UK countries
17:02:53 <Bike> but i guess not :(
17:03:00 <ais523> there's some debate as to whether greater london is actually a county or not at all
17:03:15 <Bike> oh home COUNTIES
17:03:45 <ais523> so it arguably contains the outskirts of london, where it's thinned enough to not be solid city any more, but most people don't consider it to contain central london, or at least wouldn't mention it if it was central london they were referring to
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17:07:17 <elliott> ais523: http://agoranomic.org/ is down, is there another URL I should point people to?
17:07:32 <ais523> elliott: the FLR's at https://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~charles/agora/current_flr.txt
17:07:38 <ais523> I guess that'll have to do in the absence of a homepage
17:07:58 <elliott> is it possible to subscribe to the lists? that was on agoranomic.org
17:08:29 <ais523> well yeah, you just have to know the URLs
17:08:35 <ais523> which are in the registrar's report
17:08:43 <ais523> so if you get contact with agora somehow, you can bootstrap from there
17:08:57 <elliott> ais523: re your HTML question: you can use <labels> but use the CSS properties to make them display as a table
17:09:07 <elliott> there's display: table and such
17:09:22 <elliott> ais523: and my point is that the URLs to subscribe to the lists are presumably also down
17:09:25 <ais523> elliott: I was thinking about that
17:09:37 <ais523> well someone new joined recently
17:09:40 <ais523> and they must have done so somehow
17:09:47 <ais523> are you not running the mailing lists? I thought you were
17:10:06 <elliott> ais523: no, I believe Taral is; comex was going to take them over but I don't think it happened yet
17:10:46 <elliott> ais523: btw, I suspect it's more "accessible" to use a <table> here, considering browsers that ignore CSS
17:11:00 <elliott> e.g. certainly in w3m or whatever the table form will be nicer
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17:16:00 <metasepia> At or in this place: Stop here for a rest.
17:16:48 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:22:35 <kmc> ~duck metasepia
17:22:36 <metasepia> Metasepia is a genus of small cuttlefish from the Pacific Ocean.
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17:34:57 -!- fizzie has set topic: At or in this place: Stop here for a rest | Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| roäld.dahl.net | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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17:35:38 <fizzie> Hey, I got the email. Now I can proceed.
17:48:19 <fizzie> The email. From MathWorks.
17:49:18 <fizzie> It is needed. In order to proceed.
17:49:31 <fizzie> It's not possible to proceed without the email.
17:49:43 <Gregor> The power of the email.
17:49:47 <Gregor> The power to allow you to proceed.
17:50:12 <fizzie> I proceeded. Because I had the email.
17:50:14 <kmc> Email. Reinvented. Again.
17:50:25 <kmc> An elegant, minimalist, suckless email, done right, that celebrates craftsmanship
17:51:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
17:54:09 <Bike> wow! i love craftsmanship, how did you know
17:56:17 <Fiora> Cliched ad copy. Reinvented. Again.
17:56:36 <Fiora> An elegant, minimal, suckless marketing slogan, done right, that celebrates large fonts.
17:57:05 * Gregor wipes a tear from his eye.
17:59:54 <Bike> have you considered monetizing that emotion, gregor
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18:09:51 <boily> monetizement is evil.
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18:18:46 <Bike> https://twitter.com/peteheat/status/321247583970418689/photo/1
18:44:51 <Bike> (is "margaret" a boy's name now or)
18:45:13 <kmc> itt kids these days
18:45:30 <elliott> gonna call her that from now on
18:46:28 <boily> it strangely fits her, for the little I know about her.
18:49:26 <fizzie> I just installed matlab with umask 077, and now only root has any privileges for the directories.
18:49:55 <fizzie> The files are all 755 or 644 or 444 or whatever, but the directories are all 0700.
18:50:52 <fizzie> (Also, there are 10998 *directories*. It's not a small program.)
18:51:30 <fizzie> There are 224637 files. I've had filesystems with less inodes than that.
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18:54:51 <fizzie> Now if I could only figure out how to tell this Unity thing to do focus-follows-mouse instead of click-to-focus.
18:55:07 <fizzie> (Or maybe there's a modifier key for click-to-focus-but-not-raise?)
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19:02:25 <ais523> fizzie: the advanced unity settings are accessible via compizconfig settings manager, which isn't installed by default
19:02:31 <ais523> but I'm not sure whether that's one of them
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19:03:07 <fizzie> I think I'll just try to live without it.
19:03:44 <fizzie> At least MATLAB -- The Language of Technical Computing -- runs okay. Though there's a vaguely Ribbon-y toolbar in it now.
19:03:59 <ais523> fizzie: compizconfig settings manager > general options > focus & raise behaviour
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19:04:13 <ais523> you have "click to focus", "raise on click", and "auto-raise" options
19:04:38 <fizzie> I guess click-to-focus without raise-on-click would've been okay.
19:04:45 <fizzie> (Sadly, I already shut the computer down.)
19:04:53 <ais523> yeah, and then you can keybind something else to raise if you want to be able to change which window is on top
19:05:35 <ais523> the other things is that you can lock windows as topmost using the window menu, that's what I normally do; the problem is that the window menu doesn't exist by default
19:05:50 <ais523> and to turn it on you need to go into an entirely different set of settings
19:07:24 <elliott> fizzie: did you forget a ™
19:07:48 <fizzie> Apparently what I forgot was a ®.
19:07:55 <ais523> fizzie: btw, what's your usecase for focusing without raising a window?
19:08:08 <ais523> I've always wondered why people did that
19:08:20 <ais523> and assumed it was something to do with typing into forms
19:08:55 <fizzie> ais523: I've got a piece of MATLAB® code that expects a keypress in the command window to iterate a single step, then replots the (existing) figure windows, and I wanted to keep stepping while the image windows were floating on top of the command window.
19:09:23 <ais523> I'd do that by pinning the image windows as topmost, with my setup, but sadly that /also/ needs customization :(
19:09:40 <ais523> or if I was feeling particularly inane, making the command window transparent and leaving the image window behind it
19:10:42 <fizzie> I'd normally do it e.g. by floating the image windows and leaving the main MATLAB window on the tiling layer -- well, OTOH there's focus-follows-mouse in my normal setup, so it's not an issue in any case -- but the laptop's Linux side is a bit... between configurations.
19:12:49 <fizzie> Also curious: the "Displays" settings thing only had the laptop's native resolution in the drop-down; nothing smaller. I'm hoping it'll play nice with the projector, which certainly won't do 1080p. 1024x768, maybe.
19:14:01 <ais523> fizzie: if you attach more than one screen it works out a common resolution
19:15:15 <fizzie> It had a mirror-screens checkbox, though grayed out at the time.
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19:18:18 <ais523> fizzie: you need multiple screens for it to work
19:20:13 <fizzie> Oh, a curious thing, too: recent nvidia binary drivers report the actual monitors and stuff in "xrandr -q".
19:21:14 <fizzie> I don't know if it can be actually configurated over xrandr, but at least the information query is now sane. It used to just return a single output with the bounding box size, and made-up refresh rates to differentiate between modes of the same (combined) size.
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19:55:56 <kmc> USA postal stamps say "USA FIRST-CLASS FOREVER"
19:55:57 <kmc> real subtle
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19:56:26 <Taneb> elliott, first year of the fortress is almost over
19:58:04 <fizzie> Ours say SUOMI FINLAND 1 luokka/klass or something similar. No mention about the foreverness. I guess it's implied when there's no monetary amount.
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19:59:05 <Vorpal> <kmc> USA postal stamps say "USA FIRST-CLASS FOREVER" <-- really? .... wow
19:59:26 <Bike> it's because they're permanently valued stamps (nominally)
19:59:52 <kmc> meaning they are always good for first-class mail, rather than having a nominal dollar value
20:01:39 <lambdabot> tell provides: tell ask messages messages? clear-messages
20:06:59 <zzo38> Why do many hotels require a keycard in the elevator? They try to increase security, but actually it reduces security. Some also require it in the stairs, which is against the fire code, although some don't (so when I didn't have the keycard, I went up the stairs to the 16th floor to knock on their door).
20:07:42 <Vorpal> zzo38, I have never seen that
20:08:05 <zzo38> Some allow going to any floor with the keycard, while some only allow to go to your own floor. Going only to your own floor makes it much easier for thieves to get in.
20:08:35 <Vorpal> also I don't like the new fangled key card concept, A proper physical key was much less annoying to fit in a pocket. Also what would happen if the power is out? Can't use the key card then...
20:08:56 <olsner> obviously all doors open if the power fails
20:09:10 <Bike> hotels go all lord of the flies immediately
20:09:27 <oerjan> Bike: not the shining?
20:09:34 <Bike> i haven't seen the shining, so no
20:09:49 <oerjan> let's aim for a combination.
20:10:00 <Bike> HEEEEERE'S PIGGY or something
20:10:11 <zzo38> Vorpal: Maybe they have a backup? You may be correct, though.
20:10:23 <zzo38> The point I was making is something else though.
20:10:29 <oerjan> also piggy dies by begin pushed from the 98th floor
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20:11:56 <oerjan> Vorpal: they might have batteries in the doors, perhaps?
20:12:07 <Taneb> I don't think I've ever been in a hotel with more than about 6 floors
20:16:07 <fizzie> I keep hotel key cards in the wallet.
20:16:11 <fizzie> While staying at hotels, I mean, I don't generally wander around with random hotel keycards, that would be kinda suspicious.
20:16:13 <oerjan> i recall when i was a wee one and we were visiting Bodø (a regional center in northern norway, but not really large) we made a point of visiting the SAS hotel there because it was something like 10 stories and the tallest building in the county or something. and take the elevator to the top. so i've been at least in that high a hotel.
20:16:35 <fizzie> oerjan: Did you need a keycard in the elevator?
20:16:50 <oerjan> doubtful, this was the 70s i think.
20:17:32 <Taneb> I've been pretty high in an office building
20:17:40 <oerjan> since then i've been in the CN tower in toronto, although i don't think that's a hotel.
20:17:47 <fizzie> Taneb: Is that altogether legal?
20:18:30 <Taneb> Yeah, the 88th floor is probably the highest I've been
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20:18:59 <elliott> oerjan has been to other countries?
20:19:13 -!- Zerker_ has joined.
20:19:22 <Taneb> Wait, it wasn't an office building
20:19:38 <oerjan> fizzie: i assume one of the points of the keycards, at least the electronic ones, is that they stop working when you check out so that it doesn't matter much if one is stolen.
20:19:49 <Vorpal> <oerjan> i recall when i was a wee one and we were visiting Bodø (a regional center in northern norway, but not really large) we made a point of visiting the SAS hotel there because it was something like 10 stories and the tallest building in the county or something. and take the elevator to the top. so i've been at least in that high a hotel. <-- 10 stories the largest? Wow
20:19:56 <Vorpal> I didn't realize Norway was that small
20:20:13 <Vorpal> <oerjan> doubtful, this was the 70s i think. <-- man, how does it feel being that old? XD
20:20:14 <fizzie> Sometimes -- at least in my SimTower games -- a building may have more than one type of thing in it.
20:20:28 <oerjan> Vorpal: the nordland county doesn't really have any cities
20:20:38 <Taneb> I used to play SimTower!
20:20:48 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's a Sim game where you run a skyscraper.
20:20:51 <oerjan> in troms i guess tromsø might count as one
20:20:54 <zzo38> The Vancouver Hotel used to be the tallest building in Vancouver. Now it is the smallest building.
20:20:56 <Vorpal> oerjan, right. How many inhabitants are there in Oslo btw? (I assume that is the largest city?)
20:20:59 <Taneb> It's a game published but not developed by Maxis or something
20:21:13 <oerjan> but otherwise northern norway is very sparsely inhabited even compared to the rest of norway
20:21:27 <metasepia> Formerly Christiania The capital and largest city of Norway, in the southeast part of the country at the head of the Oslo Fjord, a deep inlet of the Skagerrak.
20:21:28 <oerjan> Vorpal: half a million or so? i don't recall
20:21:43 <Vorpal> oerjan, so about half the size of Stockholm then
20:21:48 <Vorpal> or a little more than half
20:21:54 <fizzie> Taneb: There was some kind of a... maybe vaguely undocumented trick (modifier keys?) so that your lobby floor could be two or three floors high. It made fancy escalators then.
20:22:00 <oerjan> it used to be 400000 way back, but it keeps growing
20:22:09 <Vorpal> is there a wolfram alpha bot?
20:22:30 <Vorpal> would be useful: !wa inhabitants of Oslo
20:22:32 <oerjan> elliott: you may note i'm implicitly claiming having been to canada, there
20:22:39 <fizzie> Vorpal: It would be against the Terms of Services.
20:22:46 <zzo38> I prefer to use the stairs but nobody else I go with wants to use the stairs so we use the elevator instead.
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20:22:55 <fizzie> Speaking of floors and legality: I think it's kind of funny that the grocery stores underground near the (Helsinki) railway station have always stayed open without any respect to rules and regulations that govern the opening hours of shops elsewhere. It's like, underground, the Laws of Man yield to the Laws of Nature.
20:23:10 <Vorpal> zzo38, what is wrong with using the elevator?
20:23:11 <elliott> oerjan: well when i round everyone up we can go find out if canada really exists
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20:23:30 <zzo38> Vorpal: I just prefer to use the stairs.
20:23:47 <Vorpal> fizzie, are there rules forbidding shops from being open 24/7?
20:23:59 <olsner> zzo38: you should go by yourself more often so you can choose your mode of transportation freely
20:24:06 <boily> have you all proven canada's existence beyond ottawa lately, or is canada's status still limited to that city?
20:24:09 <oerjan> Vorpal: mind you there are taller buildings than that in trondheim. the university math building has 13 floors.
20:24:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: clist: not found
20:24:38 <olsner> boily: nothing says ottawa is in canada
20:25:21 <Vorpal> olsner, o<tab> fails me yet again
20:26:02 <Bike> i thought two characters was standard
20:26:48 <Vorpal> Bike, I generally don't need it since I have "tab to last speak first" + I generally notice the difference between nicks, But olsner and oerjan are both the same length.
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20:27:46 <Vorpal> Bike, I would notice the difference between Bike and boily for example: Look very different. oerjan and olsner look pretty similar though.
20:28:01 <olsner> hint: it's the letters that differ
20:28:04 <Bike> sorry i'm illiterate and can't read what you said
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20:28:28 <boily> they should rename themselves oshort and olong, therefore they'd have a different length nick.
20:30:34 <olsner> > length "oolong" == length "oshort"
20:31:13 <olsner> or maybe we should be tall and short instead?
20:32:19 <olsner> (wild guess: we're both average height)
20:32:21 <lambdabot> May the clap make ye incapable of Cracking Jenny's Tea Cup.
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20:33:04 <fizzie> Vorpal: I haven't been keeping track on the rules and regulations, and they've switched them around. But at least at some point there were rules, and they somehow depended on the size of the store in question.
20:33:13 <elliott> Bike: no it's not the c list
20:33:29 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ølist: not found
20:33:30 <fizzie> Also http://www.eeggs.com/items/359.html SimTower 2- or 3-story lobby just look at it.
20:33:31 <Bike> I thought that was the list for antarctica.
20:34:06 <Bike> or is that just everyone. is everyone going to antarctica.
20:34:47 <olsner> no roads lead to antarctica, but somehow everyone ends up there anyway
20:35:02 <tswett> As someone who's stuck in Antarctica right now, I agree.
20:35:10 <fizzie> http://www.angelfire.com/wi2/zell/simtower/guide.html also there's a picture on what escalators and stairs will look like in the SuperLobby.
20:35:11 <tswett> Man. This winter is going to suck.
20:35:17 <fizzie> I suppose it could've been mentioned in the manual.
20:36:24 <fizzie> I also remember that thing that you can build more lobbies on floors 25, 50 and 75.
20:36:33 <fizzie> (Those can't be extra-high, I don't think.)
20:37:11 <fizzie> Or maybe it's every 15th floor.
20:37:28 <Vorpal> <tswett> Man. This winter is going to suck. <-- speaking of that, it snowed the day before yesterday
20:37:35 <Vorpal> or wait, was it yesterday
20:37:43 <Vorpal> didn't actually stay on the ground
20:37:45 <fizzie> It snowed here yesterday.
20:37:51 <Vorpal> but yeah, this winter is blergh
20:37:54 <olsner> Vorpal: this being sweden, it probably snowed both of those days?
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20:38:09 <Vorpal> I'm not up in the north
20:38:14 <tswett> Snow here always sticks.
20:38:22 <Vorpal> olsner, but this is one slow winter
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20:38:35 <olsner> I've been able to survive without a winter jacket for several days now, so it seems to be letting go
20:38:56 <tswett> It snows most in the middle of summer (i.e. December). In the winter, it's usually too cold for snow.
20:39:01 <fizzie> My current bus ticket expires on April 26th, I was hoping for snowless roads by then, I don't do the whole bicycle-in-a-snow thing the other people do, it sounds a bit too sporty.
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20:39:15 <Vorpal> olsner, I have an early spring/late autumn jacket now
20:39:36 <Vorpal> tswett, where is that?
20:39:50 <olsner> too cold for snow? does it rain CO2 or something instead?
20:40:01 <Vorpal> tswett, I thought you were in UK?
20:40:03 <tswett> No, there just isn't any precipitation.
20:40:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, if you have one that is
20:40:49 <Vorpal> tswett, seriously are you on Antarctica?
20:40:50 <tswett> Vorpal: nope. I was born in Australia, and then I moved to Finland for school, and I was planning to go on a vacation to Antarctica but now it turns out I'm stuck here.
20:41:12 <Vorpal> tswett, here being Antarctica?
20:41:33 <elliott> Bike: you fail to understand
20:41:41 <elliott> Bike: the same people who go to antarctica are also going to canada.
20:41:44 <tswett> Apparently my student visa in Finland has expired and then Australia no longer considers me a citizen.
20:42:00 <Vorpal> tswett, no longer a citizen? Why?
20:42:09 <pikhq> tswett: Does that make you stateless?
20:42:10 <Taneb> So... you are not a citizen of anywhere?
20:42:13 <Vorpal> And you are not joking?
20:42:16 <tswett> Yeah, what pikhq said.
20:42:44 <tswett> I guess there's some legal thing about this. Like.
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20:43:21 <pikhq> Congrats on having an easy way to European citizenship.
20:43:22 <olsner> send a mail to the mayor of hexham, maybe they'll let you in
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20:43:46 <tswett> My parents have never been Australian citizens, but having been born in Australia, I was a citizen there, but in order to maintain my citizenship status, I couldn't leave the country for two years continuously before the age of 23.
20:44:04 <Bike> elliott: Some kind of `calist? Are you out of your mind?
20:44:11 <tswett> I didn't actually know that until I'd already been in Finland for three years.
20:44:15 <pikhq> tswett: Which nation are they citizens of?
20:44:17 <tswett> pikhq: oh? What's that?
20:44:26 <Taneb> tswett, you have much more of a claim to Australian citizenship than I do
20:44:30 <pikhq> Oh, you're not stateless then.
20:44:41 <Taneb> And yet, I have an Australian citizenship
20:44:46 <elliott> Bike: they are all also going to wherever the people after them on the list live, to pick them up.
20:44:58 <Taneb> My dad's Australian
20:45:02 <pikhq> By the way, you've got back taxes.
20:45:07 <pikhq> You're an American citizen.
20:45:14 <elliott> Bike: I'll probably start with Taneb and then PH, because they are nearest. you may be close to last.
20:45:35 <tswett> ...I see. So what happens if I go there and I can't pay my taxes?
20:45:43 <Taneb> elliott, if you get me first the universe may end
20:45:50 <tswett> Hopefully they'd just garnish my income or something and not throw me in jail...
20:45:51 <Taneb> Which is either stupid or a brilliant plan
20:45:57 <olsner> maybe they cancel your citizenship and export you
20:46:04 <Bike> elliott: so it's like a chain huh
20:46:06 <pikhq> tswett: It's something like that.
20:46:07 <elliott> Taneb: that is okay. what will be worth doing after the trip, after all?
20:46:24 <pikhq> Basically, the US taxes the income of its citizens. Regardless of the jurisdiction where they made that income.
20:46:26 <Gregor> I don't think there are any circumstances under which the US will terminate citizenship. Well, other than by request.
20:46:45 <pikhq> Yes, it's actually really tricky to terminate US citizenship.
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20:46:54 <pikhq> You have to be *really trying*.
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20:47:10 <fizzie> Gregor: What if you do something really stupid, and they're just that embarrassed to have you one of their citizens.
20:47:20 <Gregor> fizzie: Then you become President.
20:47:30 <pikhq> But yeah. The US does jus sanguinis. You have always been an American citizen.
20:47:36 <Bike> fizzie america has people literally going to libya to shoot at people we have pretty high standards for stupidity
20:47:55 <Taneb> pikhq, my gran was born in California, but never claimed citizenship
20:47:59 <Taneb> How does that affect me?
20:48:00 <tswett> I wonder if I should actually move, though? I actually really like the people here.
20:48:09 <pikhq> Taneb: You too are a citizen, but that is tricky to prove.
20:48:15 <shachaf> Taneb: When are you moving to CA?
20:48:17 <tswett> (This is all a joke, btw; I assume everyone already knows that.)
20:48:25 <tswett> The climate is... yeah, a bit problematic.
20:48:42 <Bike> In UK secondary schools do you have something like a major field of study, like in post-secondary?
20:48:54 <olsner> tswett: how far back does the joke go?
20:49:08 <Bike> Because this form is asking me for my high school major and i'm baffled.
20:49:14 <Bike> baffled and american
20:49:15 <tswett> But living here really makes people feel closer to each other. And lots of them are scientific researchers, so that's really cool.
20:49:30 <Gregor> US citizenship is viral :3
20:49:37 <pikhq> Taneb: If you're serious about it you may need to find a lawyer to get shit in order.
20:49:44 * boily pampers his canadian passport
20:49:49 <Taneb> pikhq, I... don't really want to be a US citizen
20:49:56 <Gregor> If you've ever spoken with a US citizen, you're a US citizen.
20:49:57 <pikhq> That said, you basically will just be demonstrating that you already *have* the citizenship.
20:49:59 <tswett> olsner: everything I've said so far is part of the joke.
20:50:06 <Bike> are you sure? you get semi-exclusive rights to be dronestriked
20:50:17 <Gregor> If you're aware of the existence of the United States, you're a US citizen.
20:50:27 <pikhq> Taneb: But come on, you could actually vote for the President. :P
20:50:31 <Taneb> `learn tswett is livin' it up with the penguins
20:50:35 <shachaf> Gregor: Only if you're also not aware of the existence of any other country.
20:50:43 <Taneb> pikhq, I don't need a third citizenship!
20:50:53 <pikhq> Taneb: Sorry, de jure you have one.
20:51:00 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, apparently!
20:51:07 <boily> what is the theoretical maximum citizenship number you can achieve?
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20:51:08 <fizzie> Wikipedia seems to suggest that there's actually some conditions that apply, depending on if one or two parents were citizens, and whether they were married or not.
20:51:20 <pikhq> Actually, oh god. If you're feeling crazy you could just fly to America and apply for a social security card.
20:51:23 <tswett> pikhq: wait. So because Taneb's grandmother was born in CA, the US considers Taneb to owe taxes on everything he/she earns?
20:51:32 <Phantom_Hoover> despite the fact that /none/ of my family have lived in the republic
20:51:33 <tswett> You can "just fly to America"?
20:51:45 <pikhq> tswett: He could enter on one of his passports.
20:51:46 <Taneb> tswett, us Hexhamers all have wings
20:52:09 <pikhq> And then ignore the visa requirements because he's a legally residing citizen.
20:52:17 <tswett> Pronounced /ˈhɛksəmər/.
20:52:20 <pikhq> tswett: Unless Taneb's mother/father lost citizenship, yes he's a citizen.
20:52:42 <pikhq> Or Taneb's grandmother.
20:52:49 <tswett> pikhq: so, does that mean that you're a citizen as long as any of your ancestors have been citizens, and nothing weird has happened in the middle?
20:52:57 <fizzie> Taneb: Did either of your parents even ever live in the US?
20:53:08 <pikhq> Roughly. I think there's a couple extra rules, but yeah.
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20:53:24 <Taneb> My gran did until she was 3, I think
20:53:30 <Bike> I feel like this is the most ridiculous discussion I've seen in this channel.
20:53:32 <Phantom_Hoover> surely by now that includes some massive fraction of the human population
20:53:40 <fizzie> ("If both parents are U.S. citizens, the child is a citizen if either of the parents has ever had a residence in the U.S. prior to the child's birth; If one parent is a U.S. citizen and the other parent is a U.S. national, the child is a citizen if the U.S. citizen parent has lived in the U.S. for a continuous period of at least one year prior to the child's birth; If one parent is a U.S. ...
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20:53:47 <fizzie> ... citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if; the U.S. citizen parent has been "physically present"[7] in the U.S. before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and; at least two of those five years were after the U.S. citizen parent's fourteenth birthday."
20:53:49 <Taneb> Looking it up now, and I am probably not a US citizen
20:53:52 <fizzie> And that was just the part for children born in wedlock.
20:53:58 <elliott> Bike: you're in washington right
20:54:00 <fizzie> It doesn't sound all that straightforward.
20:54:06 <pikhq> Argh, yeah, it's nutsier.
20:54:08 <Bike> It's pretty far from Antarctica I'm afraid.
20:54:15 <pikhq> Taneb: Very specific details needed it sounds like.
20:54:22 <tswett> Good thing my citizenship situation is really simple.
20:54:42 <pikhq> Taneb: Did either of your parents live in the US?
20:55:00 <Taneb> Only the UK, Australia, and Pakistan
20:55:08 <tswett> My parents are US citizens who have always lived in US-controlled places, and so am I. I've also only ever been outside the country once, for, like, part of a day.
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20:55:40 <pikhq> If you really wanted to be your grandmother could probably sponsor you for immigration. :P
20:55:58 <fizzie> "Wait, wait, Antarctica is part of USA?"
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20:56:17 <olsner> tswett: are you sure it was canada?
20:56:41 <Bike> secretly, i have an antarctican citizenship
20:56:41 <tswett> I'm pretty sure it was Canada.
20:56:48 <tswett> Might have been Mexico, but probably Canada.
20:57:07 <olsner> maybe it was just disneyland
20:57:09 <tswett> But no, it was definitely Canada.
20:57:42 <tswett> I'm in one of those funny places where if I want to go to Canada, the shortest way is to go east-southeast.
20:58:02 <Bike> New England? I'm sorry.
20:58:27 <pikhq> Hmm, right, you would've actually just said "south" thin.
20:58:36 <Bike> oh, or alaska i suppose.
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20:58:58 <tswett> I'm reasonably close to New York, though.
20:59:09 <Bike> In which case I'd tell you I'm sorry, but you'd be dead by the time you got my message
20:59:14 <tswett> It's only two states away, if you consider Ontario a state.
20:59:36 <pikhq> 'Fraid I consider Canada a state.
21:00:04 <tswett> I'm not sure whether or not I live in the convex hull of Canada.
21:01:15 <tswett> Okay, I do live in the convex hull of Canada.
21:01:34 <tswett> If you draw a line from Victoria to Windsor, I'm pretty sure I'm north of that line.
21:01:53 <Bike> i'm pretty sure i'd notice if i lived in a hull
21:02:35 <fizzie> The line *is* pretty curvy on a Google-Maps-projection map, though, if you want to draw a great-circle line.
21:03:14 <fizzie> The straight-in-that-projection line would've pretty much put the whole of North Dakota inside the famed Convex Hull of Canada.
21:03:23 <btiffin> I used to sleep in the bow, not from off the hull, curled up on top of wet fishing nets when I a was a wee lad. Very comfortable bouncing in rough swells.
21:04:03 <tswett> Oh yeah, Google-Maps-projection lines aren't the same as great circle lines.
21:04:16 <tswett> What's that map projection that maps great circles onto lines?
21:04:38 <fizzie> I don't know, but Google Maps' "ruler" tool draws great-circle lines on their map.
21:04:54 <tswett> Since when does Google Maps have a ruler tool...
21:04:59 <btiffin> Hull was too English though, so when the world amalgamated it's cities, Hull become Gatineau
21:05:00 <fizzie> It might be a tool that needs to be toggled on from some settings thing.
21:05:29 <fizzie> When turned on, it's right there in the lower-left corner next to the scale.
21:05:55 <fizzie> Yes, it's one of the Maps Labs things.
21:06:18 <fizzie> (Bottom of the left sidebar, "Distance Measurement Tool". It's very handy. It lets you draw polylines and reports their length.)
21:07:46 <tswett> Okay, so I still live in the convex hull of Canada.
21:08:59 <Taneb> tswett, move to Hull
21:09:07 <tswett> Is Hull in the convex hull of Canada?
21:09:27 <Taneb> Nah, it's somewhere in the UK
21:09:48 <btiffin> I think we're actually pretty far North, relative to Windsor
21:10:05 <kmc> there's a Hull in massachusetts
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21:13:18 <olsner> Ottawa is apparently about 13 degrees south of here
21:14:27 <Taneb> And 10 degrees south of here
21:15:17 <kmc> i guess most place names in England are duplicated in Massachusetts
21:15:41 <elliott> massachusetts is pretend england
21:15:41 <Taneb> kmc, I'd be highly surprised if it's even a third
21:15:42 <fizzie> I think I'm about 60.2 degrees north of the equator.
21:15:59 <kmc> "Hull is the worst place to live in the UK" -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/4136342.stm
21:16:41 <olsner> sounds like that'd be close to the southernmost part of finland
21:17:14 <fizzie> olsner: Most of Finland, as measured by population, is. (Well, maybe not quite "most".)
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21:17:57 <btiffin> Yep, we Canadians have all amassed right up on the US border. 90% of our population with 200 km. They have a nicer fireplace to warm fingers with.
21:18:32 <kmc> canadian invasion O:
21:19:21 <fizzie> I can only get generic "center coordinates" of countries from W|A, I don't know how to tell it to compute the centroid of people living here.
21:19:26 <Taneb> Canada is perhaps the country I've been second-closest to without ever visiting
21:20:52 <fizzie> I don't think I've been closer to Canada than the Seattle airport. Though I'm not sure what sort of route the plane took.
21:21:31 <btiffin> Crap load of space just waiting for global warming to catch up.
21:21:32 <tromp_> i lived in various parts of canada
21:22:17 <fizzie> If this flightmapper.net line is accurate (though it looks like a straight line), maybe I've flown over Canada. I guess that doesn't count as visiting?
21:23:07 <tromp_> my same named cousin has lived there all his life
21:23:14 <btiffin> I think we still parcel out 500 acres (200 hectares) of land for anyone willing to stake a claim and work land for resources. Though I do believe you have to pass a sanity test first now.
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21:39:13 <oerjan> <tswett> (This is all a joke, btw; I assume everyone already knows that.) <-- i'm _not_ betting on Vorpal hth
21:40:04 <olsner> I'm still struggling to figure out exactly what part of tswett is a joke
21:40:05 <kmc> Vorpal: key cards are a lot more convenient for the hotel though
21:40:13 <shachaf> I'M BETTING IT ALL THAT VORPAL IS REAL
21:40:19 <kmc> they can reprogram them for every guest, so you can't just steal a card and sneak in later
21:40:28 <kmc> shachaf: bet it all on black
21:41:32 <fizzie> kmc: Sadly, [insert that thing about electronic hotel locks that you can program to do whatever with inexpensive hardware and that are in like half the hotels anywhere].
21:41:37 <shachaf> or should i call you........james/brian
21:43:20 <fizzie> That thing with an Arduino in it, I forget which lock it was.
21:43:43 <fizzie> http://daeken.com/blackhat-paper
21:43:43 <tswett> Gregor: explain to olsner exactly what part of me is a joke.
21:43:49 <fizzie> I guess that's the thing I was thinking of.
21:43:53 <shachaf> monqy: is your fathers name also monqy
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21:45:16 <olsner> monqy: is your own name monqy?
21:46:16 <Taneb> Trivia: the e in Ngevd either doesn't stand for anything or stands for "Eliot".
21:46:26 <Taneb> I am sorry to have mislead you.
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21:46:52 <oerjan> <tswett> Canada. <-- aha now i understand this canada thing; it's something the us invented so people can claim to have been outside the country!
21:47:26 <fizzie> AIUI, the next-to-US parts of Mexico are kind of used for the same purpose.
21:47:50 <fizzie> (Perhaps it depends on if you're in the north or the south?)
21:48:32 <olsner> I think canada is where you go to avoid getting drafted, and mexico is where you go when you accidentally kill someone and have to avoid the law
21:48:56 <kmc> mexico is where you go to get extra drunk if you're a college student in southern california
21:49:29 <kmc> border towns typically have a seedy aspect, especially when one country is much richer
21:50:07 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bordering_countries_with_greatest_relative_differences_in_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita is an interesting list
21:50:51 <Bike> yemen can't get a break
21:50:55 <kmc> list of all lists that do not contain self-referential humor about lists
21:51:10 <Bike> macau and hong kong are countries, huh
21:51:13 <shachaf> you should make a program that injects bad facts into wikipedia pages when you fetch them over http
21:51:28 <kmc> DR Congo makes the list with practically all of its neighbors
21:51:52 <fizzie> Yay, Finland/Russia made the list. (Though at #121 it's maybe nothing to write home about.)
21:52:04 <olsner> shachaf: much like that program that keeps inserting references to canada?
21:52:07 <Bike> "the British Overseas Territories of Akrotiri and Dhekelia located in the island of Cyprus" how do europeans even do anything, you must cross a border on your way out of bed
21:52:12 <oerjan> <tswett> What's that map projection that maps great circles onto lines? <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomonic_projection
21:52:22 <fizzie> Norway/Russia is like #79.
21:52:29 <kmc> i think before i looked at this list, my guess for #1 was the Korean border
21:52:30 <kmc> but it's only #3
21:53:01 <kmc> I guess it's a trap for Westerners who think "Africa is poor" because while Africa is poor, some parts of Africa are way poorer than others
21:53:29 <kmc> I don't know if the Zimbabwe numbers can even be trusted
21:53:45 <Bike> i think i can trust that zimbabwe's had a shitty economic time, though
21:53:47 <kmc> generally a problem when your currency hyperinflates and people start using candy and fast food coupons instead
21:54:10 <kmc> seriously, the fast food restaurants there have issued their own payment chits (which are decently well produced, they have holograms and stuff)
21:54:28 <kmc> this for making change in quantities smaller than the smallest available USD / ZAR / etc. bills
21:54:32 <fizzie> #69 is probably the highest up of the borders I've crossed. :/ (And it's only there because Liechtenstein is so silly.)
21:54:55 <kmc> i've crossed #65
21:55:59 <fizzie> Heh, Liechtenstein leads the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
21:56:58 <fizzie> There's a nice list (well, template) of lists of countries by different kinds of GDP rankings.
21:57:39 <boily> ~eval 50565 / 47882
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21:57:43 <kmc> Lesotho is an enclave within a country five times as rich
21:57:44 <boily> ~eval 50565 / 47882
21:57:46 <kmc> that must be weird
21:58:45 <kmc> Albania: Bet It All On Bunkers
21:58:51 <oerjan> <shachaf> I'M BETTING IT ALL THAT VORPAL IS REAL <-- i think you may have misinterpreted my non-bet, hth
21:59:11 <fizzie> There's no "List of bordering countries with smallest relative differences in GDP (PPP) per capita".
22:02:23 <btiffin> Someone on LinkedIn just pondered about unlambda in OpenCOBOL. Off to learn something new. Tarball has a .c implementation, so that part is linked already, but now to figure out how to pass values
22:02:44 <fizzie> Germany/Belgium has a ratio of about 1.008 (with the CIA World Factbook GDP/PPP numbers), that's quite close to 1.
22:02:49 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jean_Louis_Th%C3%A9odore_G%C3%A9ricault_001.jpg just pasting this here because it's my favorite painting ever
22:03:19 <fizzie> Bike: Are those the Four Horsemen of the Apoclopolypse?
22:03:33 <kmc> looks like 1 long horse
22:03:37 <shachaf> Bike: um i demand my paintings to have unwavering bands of light
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22:03:47 <shachaf> is that that thing on the right
22:04:56 <fizzie> Horseusine: a luxury horse with a compartment for the passengers and a separate compartment for the driver.
22:05:03 <shachaf> but what is a pole doing in epsom instead of poland
22:05:46 <shachaf> kmc: Did mosh get accepted to SoC?
22:06:24 <shachaf> imo add a special no-google-employee clause to the license
22:06:41 <shachaf> Oh, you already said in the channel.
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22:12:31 <oerjan> <fizzie> There's no "List of bordering countries with smallest relative differences in GDP (PPP) per capita". <-- for some reason some of them were listed in the text of the other list article, though
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22:14:15 <btiffin> Lucky anagram, unlambdacobol, A Bland Coulomb, name chosen for me. lambdacobol would have been Ballad Combo
22:16:25 <oerjan> btiffin: i'm sure writing an unlambda interpreter directly in cobol cannot be worse than in intercal
22:19:08 <kmc> intercal is basically a parody of cobol right?
22:19:31 <olsner> maybe more of fortran?
22:19:50 <oerjan> a parody of several old languages, several of which i probably don't know?
22:20:22 <oerjan> it's intended goal is to be different from all of them, anyhow
22:20:33 <Bike> i don't remember intercal being much like fortran, from what little i know of either
22:20:49 <oerjan> Bike: well it has arrays.
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22:40:03 <shachaf> kmc: You could go be a mentor for haskell.org instead!
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22:45:53 <Regis__> how about one that mimics some animal
22:47:27 <elliott> yeah like a brainfuck derivative that mimics monkeys or cows
22:47:34 <elliott> highly innovative language design imo
22:48:20 <shachaf> elliott: uhhhh monkeys don't say ook
22:48:23 <shachaf> i'm p. sure i read that somewhere
22:48:58 <zzo38> Perhaps there is a better way than like that anyways, though
22:51:02 <btiffin> callabc.cob just compiled and evaluated hello.unl, A Bland Coulomb, phase 1 complete, now for the data passing parts. Which means learning wtf unlambda is.
22:52:23 <monqy> elliott: um probably he means like homespring
22:52:36 <monqy> elliott: because who would in this day and age even consider making another ook :]
22:53:40 <oerjan> shachaf: apes do, though
22:54:03 <shachaf> oerjan: well obviously we do
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22:57:36 <Bike_> hey i like animals
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22:57:51 <Regis__> what if we use a lang from lord of the rings
22:58:09 <Bike> Well then you wouldn't be making it, you'd be pretending you're Tolkien.
22:58:15 <elliott> bike seizes the opportunity to apply his knowledge
22:58:34 <shachaf> QUIZ: is finnish an esoland y/n
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22:59:10 <shachaf> i guess finland would be the esoland
22:59:15 <Bike> for example, you could make a duck-like esolang, that defiles conspecial corpses
23:00:49 <Bike> i don't think estonia is an animal, per se
23:01:20 <shachaf> estonians more like esotnians
23:01:40 <Bike> quiz: are the latvian countries a ring species
23:02:12 <shachaf> QUIZ: is norway exists imo no
23:03:39 <Regis__> how about brainfuck with threads
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23:11:02 <monqy> how about dont even think about making a brainfuck derivative because unless you really know what you're doing it will invariably be bad
23:11:24 <pikhq> Oh, meh. Everyone makes a Brainfuck derivative.
23:13:21 <shachaf> monqy: um what about there once was a fish named fred "even amateurs can make valuable contributions to the field"
23:13:54 <shachaf> monqy: how can i be more like you
23:14:32 <shachaf> oh no i just got a youtube subscriber
23:15:01 <monqy> make a youtube account
23:15:13 <monqy> /made? i thought i had typed made but noooooo
23:18:21 <Phantom_Hoover> so is this some well-known thing that i'm late to the party for
23:19:55 <btiffin> Regis__: indented bf. indent = [ outdent = ]
23:24:07 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slis: not found
23:24:09 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
23:25:47 <nooodl> Phantom_Hoover: this is cute
23:26:18 <monqy> it doesnt work very well
23:26:43 <nooodl> i love when it doesn't work
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23:33:06 <Phantom_Hoover> http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html?trid=TRVHPII13AFF43D495 hahaha
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23:43:52 <Gregor> Really, Indiana? Thunderstorms? For realsies? Right when I'm doing laundry?
23:44:54 <oerjan> wait Gregor is in indiana now?
23:45:36 <elliott> he always has been hasnt he
23:46:16 <oerjan> he used to be in oregon although i do remember he left that. i thought he was on the east coast. isn't indiana sort of midwest?
23:46:47 <monqy> purdue is in indiana(i think?? that's what 'IN' stands for right) sooooooooo
23:47:40 <oerjan> hm i'm probably confusing with someone else. who here was in georgia?
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23:54:14 <elliott> wow i didnt think this one would be ahrd
23:54:39 <elliott> cake prophet??? i meant cake prophet
23:54:40 <oerjan> kallisti: elliott is trying to confuse me!
23:55:01 <oerjan> i make up for it by remembering your current nick
23:58:00 <oerjan> elliott: what actually happened was i didn't connect your answer to my question but instead with reddit cakes, so i scrambled to check if it was my reddit birthday (it's not)
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