00:01:33 <FreeFull> oerjan: Polish doesn't have that distinction
00:01:50 <FreeFull> The best you get is "I read book" vs "I read this book"
00:02:21 <olsner> oerjan: do you actually know hungarian?
00:02:38 <oerjan> FreeFull: i know polish doesn't have articles. hungarian not only has articles but the _verb_ is inflected dependent on them
00:02:53 <oerjan> olsner: i know some bits from back when my mom was trying to learn it
00:09:15 <olsner> ok, I'll probably learn finnish long before learning hungarian
00:10:13 <oerjan> well that's natural for a scandinavian
00:10:22 <oerjan> although hungarian has more speakers, i think
00:11:19 <oerjan> ah spring and labor strike time in norway
00:15:56 <olsner> I think I've spent more time in hungary than in finland actually
00:16:24 <oerjan> eek they say the shops might run out of beer and soda
00:16:52 <oerjan> elliott: well the soda part
00:18:29 <oerjan> how would one seep coke, i wonder
00:18:52 <oerjan> olsner: hm i don't think i've been in either
00:21:49 <ais523> rm: cannot remove `/etc/passwd': Read-only file system
00:22:01 <ais523> my favourite way to check if a filesystem is read-only
00:22:25 <oerjan> it checks that before permissions?
00:23:13 <oerjan> i guess that does make sense, since you'd have to fix it before fixing permissions anyhow
00:23:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:24:25 -!- copumpkin has joined.
00:24:32 <elliott> ais523: not recommended as root
00:24:45 <ais523> elliott: yeah, I wasn't root
00:28:37 <Jafet> ln /var/games/crawl/logfile /etc/passwd
00:32:22 <ais523> can modern Linux systems function with a missing /etc/passwd, btw?
00:32:34 <ais523> in theory they should, just consistently using numbers not names, although logging in would be a problem
00:33:08 <function> oerjan: it must check that before permissions
00:33:17 <function> because it must travel down from the root
00:33:44 -!- boily has joined.
00:33:52 <shachaf> oerjan: go to finland, hth
00:34:12 <olsner> shachaf: but... then he'd end up in finland
00:34:53 <oerjan> finland, finland, finland
00:35:16 <function> oerjan: think about /far/bar/directory/file
00:35:29 <function> on the filesystem which is mounted on /foo/bar
00:35:42 <function> it will continue down to directory/file to make it doesn't cross a mount point again
00:35:55 <function> but at that point the *filesystem* code knows its readonly
00:36:12 <function> so it never gets to the permission check
00:36:24 <function> unless extra logic was added to check permissions before returning FS state
00:37:39 <function> oerjan: sorry if that was obvious
00:38:12 <oerjan> it was, also your example was mispled hth
00:45:05 * oerjan hands elliott 2 points and a button with "Winer"
00:46:13 <olsner> where are my points? I demand my points.
00:46:40 <oerjan> sorry i had just the two i won from function
00:49:22 <elliott> does that make me a whiner or a winner?
00:56:21 <olsner> it will be easier to understand you if you spell correctly, hth
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01:01:41 -!- kmc has set topic: Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
01:03:57 <oerjan> olsner: hey why do you think i got the button so cheap...
01:05:10 <oerjan> what, you think i can just create buttons out of thin air?
01:05:35 <kmc> hm yeah, this wire mesh supply spam is sent through Picasa
01:05:46 <kmc> i wonder if that's some clever (and slightly ironic) trick for circumventing GMail's spam filter
01:05:52 -!- augur has joined.
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01:06:11 <oerjan> only ski wax and fish smell
01:06:42 <oerjan> and it's not a very good ski wax, either.
01:09:19 <oerjan> (it's a very fishy smell)
01:15:17 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
01:16:07 -!- augur has joined.
01:28:07 <shachaf> olsner: you'll never be as much of an oerjan as oerjan
01:36:39 <kmc> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323452204578288192043905634.html omg this article.....................
01:36:42 <kmc> is this for real
01:36:49 <kmc> elliott will like this
01:37:02 <kmc> sometimes I think that April Fools is actually year-round
01:40:07 <elliott> MISSION STATEMENT | At the center of the Kidder family's 'belief board' is a pledge 'to contribute our unique, God-given gifts' to improve 'the lives of others and the world.' It also lists a dozen core values, from faith to knowledge.
01:41:31 <kmc> 'David Kidder is a serial entrepreneur, an author and the father of three boys. "If I've learned anything by starting four companies," he told me, "it's that young companies typically fail because you have a charismatic leader with a bunch of beliefs, but those beliefs don't translate to the rest of their company."'
01:41:48 <kmc> startups fail because the founders fail to brainwash the employees enough
01:42:18 <kmc> couldn't be that their 'beliefs' are just fucking dumb
01:42:25 <elliott> kmc: I like how he isb asically saying "I am charismatic"
01:42:41 <oerjan> y'all know, maybe he's kidding. just saying.
01:42:55 <elliott> oerjan: perhaps you missed this paragraph: MISSION STATEMENT | At the center of the Kidder family's 'belief board' is a pledge 'to contribute our unique, God-given gifts' to improve 'the lives of others and the world.' It also lists a dozen core values, from faith to knowledge.
01:43:05 <shachaf> imo their system needs more SCRUM
01:43:10 <kmc> when i hear 'charismatic leader' i think, like, jim jones and mao and hitler
01:43:30 <elliott> They turned to a cutting-edge program called agile development that has rapidly spread from manufacturers in Japan to startups in Silicon Valley.
01:43:47 <elliott> agile, originated at manufacturers in Japan (???)
01:43:47 <oerjan> kmc: there's also lula and gandhi, hth
01:43:57 <Jafet> Charismatic Successor
01:45:50 <Bike> also wait are we willingly reading wsj now
01:46:08 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lula
01:46:17 <kmc> Bike: yeah i dunno, i got a link from twitter
01:46:23 <kmc> "people were already making fun of it when I saw it, I promise"
01:46:24 <Bike> yeah i figured you were linked
01:46:36 <kmc> Bike: we have a bunch of hardcopy wsj at my house from a former housemate with a subscription he hasn't turned off
01:46:40 <kmc> we're using it to grow mushrooms
01:46:57 <kmc> apparently Noam Chomsky said that you shouldn't buy the WSJ but you should steal it when possible
01:47:14 <Bike> that's a bit surprising, i've never seen any good articles from them
01:47:26 <Bike> I mean everybody remembers that salaries graphic right
01:48:36 <pikhq> Oh god that thing was great.
01:48:37 <kmc> Bike: well maybe you should steal it to deprive them of revenues
01:48:40 <kmc> ohhhhhh yes
01:48:41 <kmc> i saw that
01:48:47 <kmc> with all the sad looking people who make only $230,000 a year
01:49:38 <Bike> http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2013/01/16/wsj_fiscal_cliff_infographic/1358357370309.jpg.CROP.article568-large.jpg ah there it is
01:49:42 <pikhq> "I only make 10 times above average wage WHAAAA"
01:49:54 <Bike> pretty much the most ridiculous rich person whining i've seen outside of tsarist newspapers
01:50:21 <kmc> wsj is actually marxist black propaganda: discuss
01:50:25 <elliott> wasn't wsj meant to be fairly good journalism albeit centre-right before rupert "evil" murdoch took it over or something
01:50:43 <kmc> rupert murdoch is three skinny french communists inside a man-shaped robot
01:50:56 <elliott> ps by centre-right I mean the US notion, also known as far right elsewhere
01:51:28 <kmc> elliott: i think a lot of people read it for news about The Markets and I have no reason to think those are bad
01:51:33 <Bike> hey y'all heard about that whole thing in hungary right? by "that whole thing" I mean "everything they're doing, what the fuck,, what"
01:51:34 <elliott> kmc: continuing the wsj + families theme: How Machiavelli Saved My Family
01:51:39 <elliott> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323646604578400804035071688.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read
01:51:41 <kmc> really I don't know why they run lifestyle articles or politics or whatever else
01:51:44 <kmc> except yes i do know
01:51:51 <kmc> because it gets them page views AND HERE WE ARE
01:51:53 <elliott> because #esoteric clicks on them
01:52:03 <Bike> #esoteric is the true bourgeoise
01:52:13 <elliott> it's ok by clicking that you tell their tracker thing that you got it from the "most popular" list
01:52:15 <Bike> thanks oonbotti, you're a real friend.
01:53:33 <elliott> so rupert murdoch has a tumblr now
01:53:44 <elliott> http://murdochhere.tumblr.com/
01:53:50 <Bike> I hope it's all Homestuck shipping.
01:53:52 <shachaf> does he contribute anonymously to Phantom_Hoover's
01:54:42 <Bike> I think this needs a rupertmurdochlookingatthings spinoff.
01:55:27 <ion> `run echo ' test'
01:55:36 <ion> Still broken in a newer WeeChat snapshot.
01:55:54 <ion> I anyone running a release version of WeeChat? Do you see “test” in the response line?
01:56:03 <ion> `run echo ' test'
01:56:34 <zzo38> Infocom games (with one exception) were written in ZIL, which is a variant of MDL, which is "a particularly unhelpful form of Lisp". Do you know about MDL?
01:56:51 <ion> That wasn’t visible here either.
01:56:56 <elliott> http://murdochhere.tumblr.com/image/45293956398
01:57:00 <elliott> i like the completely pointless map of the world
01:57:03 <zzo38> What isn't visible here either?
01:57:15 <shachaf> zzo38: Not really. Should I know about MDL?
01:57:18 <elliott> like do they actually forget where australia is in a meeting and go shit
01:57:24 <elliott> better check our gigantic map screen
01:57:25 <ion> zzo38: The contents of the message i sent.
01:57:44 <zzo38> shachaf: I don't know.
01:58:00 <zzo38> ion: Your computer doesn't display the messages you enter?
01:58:03 <Bike> elliott: Looks like it's more about the oceans. Are they perhaps in a large spaceship slash boat in the iddle of the Indian Ocean, which they need to orient?
01:58:19 <ion> zzo38: WeeChat doesn’t display the ones that begin with U+200B followed by a space.
01:58:46 <zzo38> ion: Why doesn't it display those ones? It doesn't seem to make a lots of sense?
01:58:53 <ion> Because of a bug.
01:58:55 <Phantom_Hoover> they're actually strategising for their deployment of dolphin-targeted news media
01:59:18 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
01:59:32 <ion> c00kiemon5ter: Which version are you running?
01:59:42 <ion> c00kiemon5ter: I can see that.
02:00:03 <Bike> and now it's time for secret ion chat hour
02:00:08 <elliott> i like how murdoch occasionally just tweets things like this https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/status/317827503723008000
02:00:23 <ion> bike: IRC logs still work. :-P
02:00:36 <Bike> elliott: haha what
02:00:37 <kmc> i follow bill gates on twitter
02:00:48 <kmc> it's 95% posts about fighting malaria and 5% cake recipes
02:00:50 <ion> bike: Apparently the format you used also triggers the bug.
02:00:51 <Bike> ion: NO NOW YOU HAVE MY CREDIT CARD NUMBER D:
02:01:00 <kmc> also he has his own url shortener, bgat.es
02:01:16 <Bike> What's .es again
02:01:25 <ion> Ok, there can be any amount of spaces in front of the U+200B, but there must be at least one space after it to trigger the bug.
02:01:26 <Bike> and why are like all cctlds used for url shorteners wtf
02:01:35 <ion> nonspacenonspace test
02:01:37 <kmc> reino de españa
02:01:39 <ion> That was visible.
02:01:50 <kmc> Bike: because a lot of words have two letters at the end hth
02:01:57 <Bike> maybe i could register se.cx
02:01:59 <shachaf> kmc: you should get your own url shortener
02:02:01 <elliott> you lied, it's b-gat.es, kmc
02:02:17 <kmc> elliott: you should receive your bitcoins in the mail in 6-8 weeks
02:02:28 <Bike> a url shortener for goat-related links, pics, and news
02:02:40 <shachaf> did i mention that someone extended shachaf.com..............
02:02:52 <shachaf> and they're still not using it for anything. and emails bounce
02:03:37 <Bike> Austria. Austria likes goats, right? Perfect.
02:03:43 <ion> Goat-related links and pics, right. I wouldn’t expect it to be worksafe.
02:04:05 <Bike> bike.com is about as dull as expected.
02:04:06 <ion> shachaf: nice
02:04:25 <kmc> http://goatkcd.com/1194/sfw nsfw
02:04:32 <kmc> a goat related link and picture
02:04:49 <Bike> See, that could be go.at/cX4b
02:04:52 <Bike> much more convenient
02:05:09 <elliott> Bike: that's good because it's also go + at
02:05:32 <Bike> Uh so? What's the point of that, you can't go at things.
02:05:48 <Bike> Don't be stupid. Be a Goat(TM)
02:06:17 <Bike> later i shut the site down in rage because goa trance people misuse it
02:06:55 -!- shachaf has set topic: Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| roald.dahl.net | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
02:07:13 <kmc> roald DALnet
02:07:59 -!- shachaf has set topic: Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| roäld.dahl.net | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
02:08:47 <Bike> xn--rold-moa.dahl.net, apparently.
02:09:36 <kmc> shachaf: you should get a domain where both the unicode name and the punycode spell out different related things
02:10:11 <shachaf> There is a distinct lack of English words that start with xn.
02:10:18 <ion> Ok, WeeChat 0.3.8 doesn’t have that bug.
02:10:46 <ion> xni, shachaf. xnachaf.
02:11:36 <shachaf> i'm a xni / a-xn--other-moa-xni
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02:12:13 <shachaf> kmc: Can you make Haskell good without cross-module optimization?
02:13:25 <shachaf> Maybe s/module/package/, indeed.
02:13:34 <quintopia> oh that new pbf is p good. thanks for the notify
02:14:41 <shachaf> who else wants to be on `pbflist
02:14:51 <shachaf> `run cat bin/pbflist | r13
02:14:52 <HackEgo> gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ funpuns \ Ftrb \ dhvagbcvn
02:16:19 <Bike> i like the idea that somebody lurks in here entirely for `list updates
02:16:23 <kmc> shachaf: does JIT count (yes it does)
02:21:09 <elliott> For a one time fee of 100 US dollars,
02:21:09 <elliott> Nicholas Gurewitch will personally call you
02:21:09 <elliott> from his home phone to notify you when he updates The Perry Bible Fellowship.
02:21:09 <elliott> Service good for twelve (12) updates. Service available to US phone numbers only.
02:21:29 <elliott> i think we should delete bin/pbflist in light of this service's existence
02:21:32 <Bike> looks like you've got competition shachaf
02:21:41 <elliott> it is not right to take away his profits like that
02:23:13 <elliott> shachaf: btw that pbf is two weeks old
02:23:54 <shachaf> kmc: ok can you make a haskell jit and make it good
02:27:08 <kmc> i think this is a sign that shachaf should jack up the price to be included on pbflist
02:27:35 <shachaf> `run cp bin/{emptylist,pbflistdeluxe}
02:28:17 <shachaf> You can sign up for a dozen deluxe updates for $99.
02:28:42 <Bike> What kind of service can we expect from the deluxe update service service?
02:30:08 <shachaf> Whenever I notice a new pbf update, I'll run `pbflistdeluxe, if I remember.
02:30:55 <Bike> OK but how is this superior to the `pbflist that the masses have to use.
02:31:48 <quintopia> also shachaf has not promised to run the one for the masses if he remembers
02:31:59 <Bike> I'll sign up for it. Do you take credit/
02:32:19 <shachaf> OK, that's not true. I don't take bitcoins.
02:32:44 <Bike> Could you not take $99 worth of my bitcoins?
02:33:09 <shachaf> You don't have any bitcoins, you scum!
02:33:18 <Bike> I don't know, quintopia, as I don't have any bitcoins.
02:33:26 <shachaf> quintopia: More like 0.0001 BTC.
02:33:29 <Bike> I don't see why this means shachaf can't not take any of mine though.
02:34:27 <shachaf> Bike: were the 1960s actually real
02:35:06 <Bike> IMO no, it was all a setup as part of Operation Condor.
02:35:17 <kmc> shachaf: the Universe was created on the morning of Sunday, August 17, 1969
02:35:20 <kmc> so mostly no
02:35:36 <pikhq> kmc: I think you mean January 1st 1970.
02:35:39 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
02:35:44 <kmc> close but no
02:35:55 <pikhq> Then why's that the zero point?
02:35:57 <lambdabot> http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/woodstock-music-festival-concludes
02:35:57 <lambdabot> Title: Woodstock Music Festival concludes — History.com This Day in History — 8/17/ ...
02:36:17 <kmc> specifically the moment at which "White Rabbit" peaked
02:36:58 <shachaf> So you're saying that "White Rabbit" has been going downhill forever?
02:37:28 <shachaf> "White Rabbit" is a song from Jefferson Airplane's 1967 album Surrealistic Pillow.
02:37:28 <Bike> jefferson airplane, right?
02:37:35 <Bike> sweet i "know" "things"
02:42:07 <shachaf> That's what forever means.
02:42:30 <shachaf> For every x, for every y < x, WR(y) > WR(x)
02:42:45 <shachaf> also known as a "contravariant functor"??????????
02:43:06 <Bike> truly, the universe is just the Functor instance for Jefferson Airplane songs
02:43:30 <elliott> a bitcoin is like $150 now
02:43:52 <shachaf> elliott: whoa dude if you have this poset category of time then its opposite category is time running backwards
02:44:07 <Bike> So how do you explain entropy?
02:44:16 <kmc> elliott: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.msg1195#msg1195
02:44:30 <shachaf> Bike: the man keeping us down
02:44:33 <kmc> $1,500,000 pizza
02:44:55 <copumpkin> man, I can't get away from the bitcoin talk
02:45:10 <kmc> SO HOW BOUT THEM BITCOINS EH
02:45:12 <shachaf> EVERYONE QUIET WITH THE BITCOIN TALK
02:45:26 <kmc> how bout them turing machines, never know when they're gonna stop
02:45:27 <shachaf> to talk to us about time running backwards
02:45:35 <Bike> sorry i'm distracted by the NewLibertyStandard username
02:45:35 <Gregor> -NickServ- contrapumpkin is not registered.
02:45:56 <elliott> kmc: i want you to know i'm laughing at your last statement
02:46:12 <shachaf> copumpkin is over bitcoins
02:46:16 <Bike> Oh man,there's someone named Heruspex. That's fucking bullshit.
02:46:32 <Bike> I am proposing naming the Bitcoin-bong (the second smallest domination) a “laszlo”
02:46:44 <tswett> shachaf: I think Japanese has を for marking a direct object.
02:46:52 <kmc> bitcoin bong
02:46:53 <shachaf> now that he's trading a brazillion dollars a day of real money
02:47:05 <shachaf> not to be confused with brazilian dollars, which don't even exist
02:47:14 <tswett> Sgeo: I've got reddit blackholed on my laptop.
02:47:21 <Bike> i like that he doesn't even have 200 posts there
02:47:58 <shachaf> This is an open offer by the way.. I will trade 10,000 BTC for 2 of these pizzas any time as long as I have the funds (I usually have plenty).
02:48:28 <tswett> Which pizzas are those?
02:48:40 <shachaf> copumpkin is shorting USD now.
02:49:38 <tswett> (That's a meaningful question I just asked, right?)
02:49:40 <shachaf> Ah, litecoin is bitcoin with scrypt?
02:51:34 <elliott> copumpkin should be longing USD instead.
02:51:48 <elliott> that way it would be worth more and the economy would be saved.
02:51:55 <elliott> because each USD would be longer when you measure it in gold.
02:52:04 <tswett> I think I want to buy stock in myself. I think I'm a pretty good investment.
02:52:10 <tswett> I'm not sure I could afford myself, though.
02:52:18 <tswett> Let's see, how much am I worth, again?
02:52:50 -!- monqy has joined.
02:53:04 <HackEgo> monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:53:10 <Bike> Everything is connected, shachaf *jumps off a building*
02:53:16 <tswett> I think $5,000,000 might be a good estimate of how much I'm worth.
02:53:16 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
02:53:33 <tswett> I could barely afford to buy one ten thousandth of myself. }:(
02:53:44 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
02:54:29 <Bike> tswett: Maybe you could rent out some of your equity.
02:54:38 <shachaf> this script could be significantly simplified if the default user was switched to monqy
02:55:00 <tswett> I guess I pretty much own 100% of myself already.
02:55:33 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:55:51 <tswett> Would it be a good idea for me to sell 1% of myself for $50,000? I dunno, that might be too low a price.
02:56:15 <tswett> I mean, sheesh, only $5,000,000? I like to think I'm worth more than that.
02:56:17 <ais523> tswett: you'd be insane to do so, /and/ other people would be insane to accept
02:56:26 <shachaf> Ask yourself this: How much is your ¢2 worth?
02:56:33 <tswett> I think it's worth about two cents.
02:56:44 <tswett> ais523: hm. This is a difficult concept to understand.
02:56:46 <shachaf> I mean as a percentage of you.
02:56:57 <tswett> Uh... approximately 0%.
02:58:03 <tswett> Here, here's a better idea.
02:58:12 <tswett> Invest in my for-profit corporation instead.
02:58:51 <kmc> you can't sell shares of yourself (in the US anyway) because of 13th amendment or something
02:59:11 <tswett> I could, like, sign a contract to give a certain percentage of all my earned income or something.
02:59:16 <Bike> This should tie into corporate personhood in a hilarious way
02:59:43 <elliott> probably not anyone else here
02:59:43 <kmc> aww thanks elliott
02:59:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:59:56 <Bike> Shares in bikes are always going up.
03:00:00 <tswett> But the opposite kind of aww to kmc's aww.
03:00:11 <elliott> well i am not even sure 80% of you actually exist
03:00:21 <Bike> I'm pretty sure bikes exist.
03:00:28 <tswett> I can prove that I exist!
03:00:35 <tswett> Theorem. There exists x such that x = tswett.
03:00:35 <elliott> yeah but you haven't even written a haskell program
03:00:41 <tswett> Proof. Let x = tswett.
03:00:53 <tswett> module Main where main = return ()
03:00:54 <Bike> Uh dude how do you expect me to write Haskell programs? I don't even have fingers.
03:01:13 <monqy> um pretty sure bikes have fingers
03:01:33 <Bike> Do not *surreptitiously moves arm behind spokes*
03:01:37 <shachaf> kmc: uhh what if i'm not human
03:01:59 <tswett> Non-humans don't exist.
03:02:10 <shachaf> elliott: what do you mean you wouldn't buy shares in me
03:02:13 <tswett> Wait, no, there's one thing that isn't human. Uh, lemme think.
03:02:18 <elliott> Bike: also you're, like, a biologist
03:02:27 <Bike> Is that a problem.
03:02:29 <elliott> what I'm saying is that there is pretty much no competition between you and kmc for my investment
03:02:32 <shachaf> biologist more like vile-ologist
03:02:32 <elliott> yes of course it's a problem
03:02:33 -!- nooodl_ has joined.
03:02:41 <tswett> Gee, I'm trying to remember here...
03:02:52 <elliott> like I wouldn't buy shares in a speech recognition researcher, either!
03:02:52 <tswett> Ah, right. I'm pretty sure it's R^4.
03:02:54 <Bike> Look, I'm not saying I'm as good an investment as kmc. Just that you should consider broadening your portfolio.
03:02:58 <tswett> R^4 isn't human. Everything else is human.
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03:03:20 <shachaf> but you're not a bike. you're Bike
03:03:47 <elliott> i could buy like 2 kmcs for the cost of one bike
03:03:55 <shachaf> lern2capitalize(your sentences, not on your opportunities)
03:04:07 <tswett> Capitalize me by giving me money!
03:04:14 <Bike> I thought you wanted me to have a seven letter uncapitalized name, shachaf. Why the flip flopping?
03:04:29 <tswett> $10 a share, eh? Eh? Eh?
03:04:30 <shachaf> Bike: See, you don't even know where to begin.
03:04:39 <shachaf> Bike: You're so unrefined.
03:04:50 <shachaf> Bike: Part of the skill of knowing when to capitalize is knowing when *not* to capitalize.
03:04:52 <Bike> That just means I have potential. As an investment. Of your money.
03:05:03 <shachaf> OTHERWISE YOU COULD JUST SHOUT EVERYTHING. YOU'D BECOME THE ANTI-MONQY
03:05:36 <kmc> i'm watching The Walking Dead and i don't get why nobody yet has said "Holy shit, this is just like a zombie movie!"
03:05:50 <shachaf> Do they usually do that in zombie movies?
03:05:59 <kmc> does this take place in an alternate universe where zombie movies never existed
03:06:01 <kmc> i don't know shachaf
03:06:12 <kmc> not really 'into' zombies
03:06:16 <shachaf> Well, if they don't usually do it in zombie movies, then that would explain it.
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03:06:25 <kmc> not really
03:06:28 <shachaf> it would no longer be ""just like a zombie movie"" anymore if you take my meaning
03:06:36 <kmc> ow my brain
03:06:57 <Bike> intertextuality sucks, kc
03:07:18 <elliott> is "if you take my meaning" a hebrew idiom
03:07:49 <shachaf> @google if you take my meaning
03:07:51 <lambdabot> http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/if-you-take-my-meaning
03:07:51 <lambdabot> Title: if you take my meaning - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - ...
03:08:03 <elliott> i think you mean "if you get my meaning"
03:08:19 <monqy> i think you mean "if you know what i'm saying"
03:08:50 <Bike> If you know what I mean AND YOU DON'T FUCK YOU
03:09:16 <shachaf> elliott: Apparently it's UK slang.
03:09:30 <shachaf> You're just too Americanised to understand it.
03:09:44 <shachaf> Er, not slang. An idiom. A UK idiom.
03:09:59 <ion> nah’m’sayin’
03:10:19 <shachaf> elliott: it's true i'm 1000% british
03:13:20 <monqy> can i be british too
03:13:51 <oerjan> know what i mean, wink wink, nudge nudge
03:14:08 <shachaf> only if you stop reading super mega comics ...... forever
03:14:11 <kmc> said the actress to the bishop
03:15:23 <pikhq> Say no more, say no more.
03:16:52 <shachaf> uh Bike everyone was making telemarketer euphemisms
03:17:43 <monqy> what if theyre telemarketing.....the nasty....
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04:09:39 <zzo38> Someone made up "Affirmative Spelling" which means the capitalization is reversed. But, it is also what will happen if you try to display a ASCII file on a Commodore 64 computer or vice versa.
04:10:29 <pikhq> Shame not all of PETSCII is in Unicode.
04:10:38 <Bike> Displaying a Commodore 64 computer on an ASCII file is madness.
04:10:57 <kmc> oh, which characters aren't?
04:11:04 <kmc> i was just wondering about characters that aren't in unicode
04:11:27 <pikhq> Looks like 'bout half of the graphic chars.
04:11:52 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64_Petscii_Charts.png hmmmmm
04:13:00 <zzo38> pikhq: I know; Unicode has various problems. My own character set (for a computer I am designing) does include all of PETSCII in its 16-bit set (and without all of the nonsense of Unicode; character properties are not used, control characters are all in one block, etc) (it normally uses 8-bit sets, although there is a mapping between them)
04:13:54 <zzo38> Bike: I mean displaying a file of Commodore 64 in a computer which is using ASCII, not displaying a computer on a file!
04:17:25 <zzo38> Can there be the voltage/phase colorspace which convert to/from YUV and YIQ, and then you can convert to other colorspace?
04:17:59 <zzo38> It seem, it might be three components (low voltage, high voltage, phase) and then if the low and high is the same it will be gray, or, something like that?
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04:29:08 <zzo38> Maybe you would do something like calculate the sine and cosine of the phase to make the U and V signal, and the voltage makes the Y signal.
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05:01:39 <zzo38> Have any of you make any Z-machine interpreters?
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05:10:25 <Bike> Hm, this is boring.
05:26:33 <Bike> Yes, "this" was referring to myself, of which I am an occupant.
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06:27:26 <zzo38> Probably it is possible to make a program to compile a subset of Internet Quiz Engine into Z-machine version 1 (the only lacking feature is the timer). Many of the features of Z-machine would not be needed, though.
06:34:13 <zzo38> Stop losing all the time, please.
06:37:27 <Jafet> It's actually quite odd that, on a hierarchical file system, /usr/bin is a big flat directory.
06:37:36 <Jafet> Why isn't it hierarchical?
06:37:58 <zzo38> Perhaps so that all of the files fit in the PATH?
06:38:16 <Jafet> This question usually appears whenever I boot up a different linux system and wonder what programs are available.
06:39:44 <Jafet> Sometimes listing /etc gives you an idea of a system faster than listing /usr/bin.
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06:46:46 <zzo38> OK, then do that, instead.
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07:34:12 <Taneb> I am now playing dwarf fortress via mosh
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07:58:16 <Taneb> Description of coke in Dwarf Fortress:
07:58:49 <Jafet> Are you sure that was the entire description
07:59:42 <shachaf> Wait, was the description talking about itself, or about the coke?
07:59:59 <shachaf> Or was it talking about the game? Or your screen?
08:00:10 <Taneb> But what would you use coke for?
08:00:14 <Taneb> Would you drink it? Smoke it?
08:00:21 <Taneb> Snort it? Use it as fuel?
08:12:33 <Jafet> /* Writing: cosine = (double (*)(double)) dlsym(handle, "cos"); would seem more natural, but the C99 standard leaves casting from "void *" to a function pointer undefined.
08:12:33 <Jafet> The assignment used below is the POSIX.1-2003 (Technical Corrigendum 1) workaround; see the Rationale for the POSIX specification of dlsym(). */
08:12:52 <Jafet> *(void **) (&cosine) = dlsym(handle, "cos");
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08:50:48 <fizzie> They could've just added the void (*dlfun(void *, const char *))(void) back when definating POSIX, and then you could do the more natural thing. (I guess that would have made less things POSIX by default.)
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08:54:36 <Jafet> Natural? But this is POSIX.
08:55:18 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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08:56:11 <shachaf> Taneb: plz arrange for olist update by the end of next week thx
08:58:33 <Taneb> Alas, that is not within the scope of my power
09:02:17 <Jafet> [http://stackoverflow.com/a/10519415]
09:02:32 <Jafet> void (*fptr)(); void *temp = dlsym(handle, "my_function"); memcpy(&fptr, &temp, sizeof fptr);
09:03:30 <Jafet> I like how people are writing code that depends on POSIX to be portable to systems which aren't POSIX.
09:07:49 <Taneb> Is it possible to use mosh for file transfer
09:08:44 <shachaf> Taneb: base64 + copy-and-paste hth
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09:45:56 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Cont'
09:45:56 <lambdabot> `Const' (imported from Control.Applicative),
09:46:03 <elliott> @let all' = cont . flip all
09:46:27 <elliott> :t do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) }
09:46:31 <elliott> :t evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) }
09:46:40 <elliott> @let evalCont = flip runCont id
09:46:43 <elliott> :t evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) }
09:46:48 <elliott> > evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) }
09:47:02 <elliott> :t runCont (do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (show x) }) ?x
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09:48:23 <elliott> :t evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; y <- all' [11..20]; return (x > y) }
09:48:32 <elliott> > evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; y <- all' [11..20]; return (x < y) }
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10:37:33 <nooga> {Y: {(rf): {(f):f(f)}( {(f): rf({(x): f(f)(x)})} )}}
10:55:25 <olsner> "Assuming sizeof(unsigned long long) is 64 ..." sounds like a safe assumption
10:58:57 <Jafet> You sound like one of those whiners who don't have 512-bit computers.
11:01:34 <olsner> only a matter of time until my puny 64-bit hardware is completely useless :(
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11:32:36 <Jafet> You'll still need it to run the legacy 32-bit apps.
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11:59:17 <FreeFull> Jafet: 64 bit hardware can still run 16-bit stuff
11:59:25 <FreeFull> Are you suggesting 512 bit won't?
12:03:28 <FreeFull> Since machines will be so fast, what stops us from using emulators?
12:07:01 <Jafet> Machines may not get faster
12:11:27 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Bool)
12:11:46 <olsner> with 8 or 16 times larger words, they might be a lot slower even
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14:50:58 <kmc> @tell Taneb no, Mosh doesn't do file transfers yet
14:52:16 <Sgeo> I wish I knew what avocado tastes like
14:52:34 <Sgeo> I've tried eating bacon. It's boring.
14:53:34 <elliott> i can think of an excellent way to find out how avocado tastes
14:53:42 <elliott> ps american bacon doesn't count as bacon
14:58:50 <monqy> canadian bacon, however…
15:00:58 <elliott> i don't know anything about canadian bacon
15:01:08 <elliott> but canada is almost america so its chances aren't good
15:01:09 <olsner> if there's a difference at least one of you is wrong
15:02:34 <monqy> canadian bacon is the american name for british bacon
15:03:23 <Phantom_Hoover> "Back bacon (called Irish bacon/Rashers or Canadian bacon in the United States[citation needed])"
15:03:45 <elliott> monqy: well canadian bacon is awful then
15:03:49 <elliott> because it is taking credit!!!!
15:05:44 <olsner> elliott: canadian bacon is not made of canadians?
15:08:03 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_mania
15:08:24 <elliott> A 2009 Baltimore Sun story describes bacon as being "more than bacon,"
15:08:39 <elliott> Calling it "like an extreme sport,"
15:09:42 <monqy> an article starting with the words "All Hail Bacon!" noted that a Poynter Institute report found bacon taking the social media networks "by storm" and that the meat's popularity is "now practically at an epidemic pace, as all of these socially interactive sites are literally pulsating with posts, updates, comments, even clubs / groups dedicated exclusively to the LOVE of Bacon!"
15:10:13 <monqy> bacon mania is the worst thing
15:10:59 <olsner> bacon itself is still good though
15:11:26 <Sgeo> "Negative publicity surrounding swine flu, which is not transmitted via pork product consumption,[45] hit sales and prices in the pork industry."
15:11:49 <Sgeo> It does occur to me though that by consuming bacon, it encourages people to keep pigs around, which is relevant to swine flu
15:11:58 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bacon.jpg
15:12:16 <Phantom_Hoover> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Bacon.JPG nice bacon
15:12:32 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: that's like ham or something
15:12:32 * Sgeo has never seen bacon that looks like that
15:12:40 <Sgeo> It looks like strips with stripes
15:13:21 <elliott> guys I think we need to observe this sentence some more: A 2009 Baltimore Sun story describes bacon as being "more than bacon",
15:13:33 <Sgeo> And not as long as http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Bacon_and_egg_sandwich_-_open_face.JPG
15:13:42 <monqy> bacon mania can die in a hole & rot
15:13:48 <elliott> Sgeo: by "american bacon doesn't count" do you think i was just making up the idea of there being other types of bacon than what, or
15:13:54 <elliott> *what is common in america
15:14:14 <Gregor> Dat bacon and egg sandwich… enjoy your extremely-dry bread.
15:14:29 <Sgeo> I should start eating eggs
15:14:29 <Gregor> Egg sandwiches call for /buttered/ bread.
15:14:35 <Phantom_Hoover> monqy, what would your opinion be of bacon mania for normal bacon
15:14:38 <Sgeo> I wonder if the cafeteria offers hard-boiled eggs
15:14:46 <Gregor> Or if you're British and like eating rat snot, Marmite on bread.
15:15:02 <elliott> isn't marmite more of an australian thing
15:15:06 <Phantom_Hoover> i have never eaten marmite, i am fairly content with this
15:15:12 <Sgeo> I've tried eating buttered bagels, but I have difficulty spreading the butter
15:15:17 <Sgeo> It just sits on a lump
15:15:21 <Gregor> elliott: Vegemite is Australian, Marmite is British.
15:15:25 <elliott> i feel like i should attempt to be ambivalent about marmite
15:15:33 <elliott> because the whole love it or hate it marketing campaign thing is obnoxious
15:15:34 <Gregor> They're the same thing, but "Marmite" under that name doesn't exist in Australia.
15:15:44 <monqy> Phantom_Hoover: food obsession to a degree like that of bacon mania is hell irrespective of what what food it's about
15:15:51 <elliott> i can't imagine it's terribly offensive
15:15:52 <Sgeo> I need to stop eating tic-tacs as though they were candy
15:15:57 <Gregor> elliott: It really is.
15:16:03 <elliott> well it's basically just salt right
15:16:16 <Sgeo> Gregor, you hate pizza, your opinions don't count.
15:16:20 <elliott> sticky salt on toast doesn't sound so bad
15:16:29 <Gregor> elliott: It's less like salt than like earwax.
15:16:44 <elliott> well earwax doesn't taste that awful
15:16:54 <olsner> instead of buttering the egg sandwich bread, just fry it in the leftover bacon fat
15:16:57 <elliott> but it's probably not that earwaxy
15:17:27 <monqy> in which elliott is part of the problem
15:17:28 <Gregor> <olsner> instead of buttering the egg sandwich bread, just fry it in the leftover bacon fat // now that's a plan
15:17:50 <Sgeo> 2 calories per mint is kind of low... also, lots of sorbitol
15:17:56 <elliott> monqy: i categorically cant participate in `bacon mania' because i dont consume the type of bacon it concerns
15:18:03 <Sgeo> Wait these don't have sorbitol
15:18:09 <elliott> i mean bacon isn't anything that special of course
15:18:17 <elliott> but everyone is talking about it
15:18:19 <kmc> bacon is pretty good; chinese pork belly dishes are also really good
15:18:32 <Sgeo> Can I get bacon on hamburgers?
15:18:44 <Sgeo> Maybe avocado separate for the first time I try oit
15:18:53 <Sgeo> (Not on the hamburger)
15:18:59 <kmc> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm twice cooked pork with leeks
15:19:02 <monqy> and avacado products
15:19:04 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, like every other food that people consider awesome!
15:19:14 <Sgeo> Steak, hamburger, bacon...
15:19:27 <monqy> steak is vastly overhyped
15:19:29 <Sgeo> But I can smell aromas just fine!
15:19:33 <monqy> its like bacon mania but less obnoxious
15:19:41 <Sgeo> Steak smells awesome... it just doesn't taste like anything
15:19:51 <kmc> monqy has never had my sous vide steak
15:20:22 <kmc> avocado is basically a tree that grows butter
15:20:33 <Sgeo> Although that was my opinion when I was younger
15:20:34 <monqy> that's a pretty good description
15:20:37 <kmc> guacamole is delicious but the flavor comes from the other parts
15:21:00 <Sgeo> Some people elsewhere have suggested that it's because I've only ever eaten well-done steaks
15:21:07 <kmc> yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh gross
15:21:09 <monqy> why would you do that
15:21:14 <monqy> you gotta have your stake juicy
15:21:16 <kmc> you are asking for ruined food
15:21:21 <Phantom_Hoover> at this juncture i am just going to link to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNJdJIwCF_Y because it is amazing
15:21:31 <kmc> literally "chef could you plz ruin my food before you give it to me"
15:21:37 <Sgeo> The chef was my mom
15:21:53 <kmc> get a medium rare steak and season it with garlic and salt and maybe steak sauce
15:22:02 <Sgeo> But is medium rare unsafe?
15:22:08 <Sgeo> Also I love garlic salt
15:22:11 <Gregor> <kmc> literally "chef could you plz ruin my food before you give it to me" // 'struth
15:22:14 <kmc> unless you are like an elderly baby with aids
15:22:42 <kmc> prob. fine even then
15:23:13 <kmc> healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage
15:23:24 <kmc> sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes
15:23:40 <Sgeo> Medium wouldn't be bad, right?
15:23:51 <Phantom_Hoover> i think there is some risk of parasites? but nothing worth worrying about
15:23:52 <kmc> medium will probably taste all right too
15:24:09 <kmc> it also depends on the quality of the original meat; you can get sushi grade beef that is safe to eat raw
15:24:20 <kmc> supposedly it's really really good
15:24:23 <Sgeo> ..wtf how does that work
15:24:32 <kmc> sear it quickly in a pan on high heat to get the outside crunchy
15:24:43 <kmc> Sgeo: i don't know, maybe they are extra careful about the cow's health
15:26:10 <kmc> also extra careful about not cross contaminating with other meats
15:26:35 <Phantom_Hoover> note to self: don't read alarmist blog posts about toxoplasmosis
15:27:19 <Sgeo> Is there a way to determine if I have toxoplasmosis?
15:27:39 <olsner> hmm, looks like sendmail can also do string rewriting in loops
15:27:43 <elliott> why would you expect to have toxoplasmosis exactly
15:27:51 <kmc> do you feel a powerful urge to be eaten by a cat
15:28:08 <kmc> olsner: http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/sendmail-as-turing-machine.txt
15:28:20 <Sgeo> Have been living with a cats my whole life. At once point had to take care of someone else's cats which were all strays until she took them in
15:28:27 <elliott> hm i wonder what being eaten by a cat would be like
15:28:51 <Sgeo> This apartment has become a shithole with the cat getting litter everywhere
15:29:09 <kmc> Sgeo don't become a crazy cat lady
15:29:16 <olsner> I think that's a sign of not maintaining your cats properly
15:29:31 <Sgeo> I'm not a crazy cat lady. I want the cat out of here.
15:30:01 <Sgeo> And my dad to pay to get the apartment professionally cleaned.
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15:45:54 <elliott> update: i have obtained bacon and am now looking at ridiculous "bacon mania" things to feel smug about it
15:46:04 <elliott> bacon cotton candy. bacon vodka
15:46:20 <elliott> (*candy floss in real countries)
15:46:25 <elliott> (but probably it's fake candy floss too?)
15:46:31 <kmc> bacon is like The Beatles in that they're both pretty good but I'm almost obliged to hate them because of how overrated they are
15:46:38 <kmc> however I don't hate bacon at all
15:47:30 <elliott> i just feel kinda sorry for americans who have to grow up knowing the word "bacon" as meaning something totally inferior to what i know as bacon
15:48:47 <kmc> what do you know as bacon
15:49:07 <elliott> i hear americans call it canadian bacon
15:49:36 <kmc> both good imo
15:49:53 <kmc> thin & crispy is also a fine way for food to be
15:50:12 <copumpkin> do people use the word "rashers" in the US?
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15:55:20 <kmc> i've not heard it, what does it mean?
15:57:33 <elliott> its when your skin gets all red and rough
16:01:04 <kmc> 'canadian bacon' is pretty popular in america though
16:01:13 <kmc> especially as a pizza toping
16:02:36 <monqy> and a breakfast food with eggs
16:03:12 <Gregor> And another way to make fun of Canada.
16:03:52 <kmc> 'ha ha, you have delicious meats'
16:04:12 <kmc> brb going to eat sichuan food
16:05:50 <elliott> i don't know what i mean by that
16:05:52 <elliott> its' something quite specific
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16:09:38 <monqy> i like egg it's good
16:12:07 <nooga> i just casually emailed Ian Piumarta
16:12:51 <Taneb> Now you feel like I feel all the time
16:12:51 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:13:01 <Taneb> Someone sent me a message
16:13:08 <Taneb> I wonder what wonders it contains
16:13:11 <Taneb> It could be magical
16:13:14 <lambdabot> kmc said 1h 22m 16s ago: no, Mosh doesn't do file transfers yet
16:13:40 <elliott> it doesn't know what it wants to do
16:13:47 <nooga> whew, I just had this weird idea that Taneb is Ian and he somehow recieves mail by lambdabot
16:14:05 <Vorpal> egg? That tastes like chicken.
16:14:40 <Taneb> It tastes of chicken in potentia
16:14:54 <Vorpal> yes, that was the joke
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17:13:52 <Sgeo> I think it's probably a bad thing to consume a thing of tic-tacs in two days
17:14:37 <FreeFull> Depends on how big of a thing it is
17:14:48 <Sgeo> The cashier might look at me funny if I buy tic-tacs again so soon
17:16:20 <Phantom_Hoover> because i can definitely see you getting funny looks for the latter
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17:17:34 <Sgeo> 60 tic-tacs. One box
17:18:54 <Phantom_Hoover> sgeo do you really think anyone is going to waste the effort to judge you for eating two boxes of fucking tictacs
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17:19:53 <kmc> paranoid thinking...
17:20:46 <Taneb> Sgeo, maybe the cashier will think you are a generous person with a lot of friends
17:21:17 <Sgeo> How are tic-tacs supposed to be consumed?
17:21:27 <Sgeo> Just one or two on occasion?
17:22:19 <monqy> you should switch cashiers so they don't recognize you
17:22:25 <monqy> get a friend to buy them for you
17:22:31 <Taneb> Sgeo, however you want. They're mints.
17:22:36 <Bike> meant to be consumed in the dark ritual of Oolak-Oolak
17:22:47 <elliott> monqy: you forgot crossing the border to buy them
17:22:50 <monqy> anything to prevent them from knowing you ate all those tic tacs
17:22:59 <Sgeo> Blah, I should be eating higher calorie things anyway
17:23:22 <elliott> we have the finest tic-tac brewery in all of england
17:23:34 <Sgeo> I should find out what snacks are there. I'd be comfortable with sugary high-calorie snacks everyday
17:23:39 <Sgeo> These are not high calorie
17:23:44 <elliott> tic-tac production started here in 1764 and have been hand-made since
17:23:54 <elliott> hence why hexham is often referred to as home of the tic-tacs
17:24:49 <Phantom_Hoover> so it's exactly where they'd expect Sgeo to buy tic-tacs
17:25:35 <Sgeo> Also, tic-tacs in the container make a lot of sound
17:25:52 <Sgeo> Walking through a quiet cubical farm while tic-tacs are rattling loudly is kind of embarrassing
17:26:00 <pikhq> Is it true that there is a statue of six pigs in the Hexham town square?
17:27:36 <elliott> inscribed beneath is "tic taccus" (latin for "be nice")
17:28:37 <monqy> Sgeo: you could put them in a larger box or bottle stuffed with cotton and packing peanuts
17:28:44 <monqy> Sgeo: and then put that in a paper bag
17:28:57 <elliott> why not just kill the cashier
17:28:59 <monqy> take a swig of tic tacs and nobody will know your shame
17:29:15 <monqy> they'll think it's like
17:29:21 <monqy> idk what do people usually drink from paper bags
17:30:11 <elliott> i hear canada gets their milk in bags
17:30:29 <pikhq> "Argent, hex ham rampant carnation."
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17:33:17 <pikhq> (the coat of arms for Hexham)
17:34:02 <kmc> i thought they got their milk in tetrahedra
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17:36:09 <Taneb> "The video ends with the man being shown with black eyes: he has also been infected."
17:36:45 <kmc> can't you buy tic-tacs online by the case
17:37:56 <kmc> Cut Out The Middleman as they say
17:38:28 <monqy> but what if the website judges him
17:38:44 <monqy> a popup, I can see it now, "dude, why are you buying all those tic tacs"
17:38:47 <kmc> better burn down your house and change your name and grow a beard and move to a shack in the woods in montana just in case
17:38:47 <monqy> "you have a problem?"
17:39:03 <kmc> btw never buy the blue 'powermint' tic tacs, they are mad nasty
17:39:18 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, send orders for tictacs to universities across trhe country?
17:39:56 <monqy> im not very keen on tic tacs, or drug lingo at all for that matter
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17:42:35 <monqy> http://www.zazzle.com/tictacs+gifts shame by association with whoever made/buys/enjoys these things
17:43:33 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: yes
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18:28:22 <Bike> why does anything vary so much
18:28:33 <elliott> why do tic-tacs vary so much
18:28:58 <olsner> Why do wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册 so much?
18:29:03 <pikhq> doesthiswork: So that all boobs are unique.
18:29:14 <kmc> government plot to track us using our boobs
18:29:32 <doesthiswork> yes, but mens areolas are pretty consistently the same size
18:30:13 <doesthiswork> so if was just relaxed selection i would expect both sexes to vary
18:30:38 <Taneb> doesthiswork, in my experience men's areolas do vary a bit.
18:30:44 <Taneb> Mine, for example, are relatively small
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18:31:28 <doesthiswork> they vary from size of a penny to the size of a dollar coin
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18:31:46 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
18:32:00 <doesthiswork> while women's go from penny size to a little smaller than a cd
18:32:20 <pikhq> There's more tissue there for the areola to spread over.
18:32:54 <doesthiswork> that is true, bigger boobs tent to have bigger areolas
18:33:09 <Taneb> Author a study on it
18:33:18 <Taneb> Perhaps you'll get an Ig Nobel prize
18:33:59 <Bike> imo menopause is weirder than boobs could ever be
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18:42:08 <Taneb> doesthiswork is going for the ig nobel
18:43:53 <fizzie> The nobel prize in breasts.
18:44:39 <pikhq> The breast nobel prize.
18:44:49 <pikhq> Also, it's Ig Noble.
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18:48:28 <Taneb> My favourite is Foldable
18:53:44 <Bike> Num, am I right!!
18:55:15 <doesthiswork> if you prefer there is a skin for it called liskell
18:55:22 <Bike> i think it's like hebrew
18:55:30 <doesthiswork> that give you everything in s-expressions instead
18:55:32 <Bike> i looked it up before but then i forgot.
18:56:53 <Sgeo> http://wormtube.worms2d.info/extras/Cueshark%20-%20Wormsong%20in%20Minor.mp3
18:58:12 <doesthiswork> here's a cool video about bipedal robots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRbvNL1PHKg
18:59:52 <Bike> Is this gonna be PETMAN
19:00:35 <Bike> i admit I don't understand how it could be cost effective to make a fucking android just to see if your NBC suits work.
19:01:06 <Bike> Quite possibly!
19:01:26 <Bike> Oh man the music even matches the gait.
19:01:48 <olsner> looks like there are cuts in the video too
19:02:05 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
19:02:17 <Bike> well yeah, it was like a thirty second demonstration.
19:02:50 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrjrgBV8K0 They have that newer video where it has a head instead of a strobe.
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19:08:27 <Vorpal> Bike, interesting, but can it turn and so on? That is a very fixed one direction walk (only watched the first video so far)
19:08:38 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined.
19:09:10 <Bike> Their site has http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/petman512.jpg
19:09:33 <Bike> also http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/petman-poses-512.jpg jazzin it up
19:09:53 <Bike> yes as it turns out i don't work at boston dynamics and can't get you more information than they've released
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19:11:17 <Bike> Stairs would probably be a common use case for testing rips and stuff, though.
19:16:11 <olsner> seems useful to test if e.g. bending the fabric the wrong way when walking will break it down and let in the death viruses
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19:28:41 <Sgeo> I AM TIRED OF THIS APARTMENT SMELLING LIKE SHIT
19:31:48 * kmc makes a note to stop shitting in Sgeo's apartment
19:32:12 <boily> random Sunday question: has anyone of you all every played with ISO 7816 part 4?
19:33:01 <olsner> is that like smart cards? or somehow different?
19:38:06 <Taneb> I think Hussie started out mad with power.
19:38:12 <Taneb> Did you ever read Problem Sleuth?
19:45:43 <boily> part 3 has the low-level, electric stuff. part 4 has commands and things and stuff: http://cardwerk.com/smartcards/smartcard_standard_ISO7816-4.aspx
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21:10:13 <oerjan> i guess someone ran @undefine
21:10:45 <Taneb> Is that ?x a GHC extension?
21:10:57 <oerjan> elliott: that's neat, if you define min' = Cont . flip min and max' = Cont . flip max then i think you can do minimax algorithms that way
21:11:15 <oerjan> Taneb: implicit parameters
21:11:28 <zzo38> What should I upgrade, the stadium, concession, or merchandise?
21:11:31 <Sgeo> I wanted to make this bot
21:11:31 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/user/LinkFixerBot
21:11:55 <oerjan> @tell elliott that's neat, if you define min' = Cont . flip min and max' = Cont . flip max then i think you can do minimax algorithms that way
21:12:39 <oerjan> @tell elliott um, *+imum in places
21:13:51 <oerjan> Taneb: i think getting types without explicit lambdas may be their main use nowadays :P
21:14:21 <zzo38> The thing is that concession and stadium is only good for games at your stadium, and not for your opponent's stadium, while merchandise is good at either; however, merchandise is way more expensive to upgrade to level 9 (I have level 8) than concession to level 8 (which I currently have 7), and stadium is the most expensive.
21:14:36 <Taneb> To my mind, they are not very Haskelly
21:14:40 <Taneb> zzo38, as I said, concession
21:14:43 <oerjan> although some people use them for configuration i think, but there are gotchas than make them mostly deprecated
21:14:55 <shachaf> oerjan: btw ill be taking credit for those things
21:15:01 <zzo38> Taneb: Yes, I saw that and will consider it; but I also want to describe all the possibilities anyways.
21:15:08 <shachaf> 02:42 <shachaf> all :: [a] -> Cont Bool a
21:15:09 <oerjan> shachaf: which things? the Cont stuff?
21:15:34 <oerjan> shachaf: did you consider using minimum and maximum too?
21:15:43 -!- augur has joined.
21:15:59 <shachaf> Well, I mentioned that it's just a foldMap.
21:16:18 <zzo38> Stadium also, helps if there are many more people to come (and perhaps there is more property tax, too), but more people who come also means more concession will be sold since the higher level of concession means more choices (I have candy, cola, popcorn, weiner, burger, pretzel, and juice; next choice is pizza, and the next upgrades will be nachos and beer).
21:17:01 <zzo38> I will try concession for now since that is what I can afford, and hopefully sell enough pizza to make up for it.
21:17:20 <kmc> what game?
21:17:26 <kmc> or does zzo38 just actually own a stadium
21:17:29 <shachaf> concatMap :: [a] -> Cont [b] a
21:17:47 <zzo38> kmc: Franchise Basketball, on X-BIT BBS
21:18:49 <oerjan> <Sgeo> I wish I knew what avocado tastes like <-- well have you had guacamole?
21:18:58 <zzo38> The installation on X-BIT has 16 teams in total, and currently, 15 are computer players (someone could register and take over, but the games I like are usually less popular than the others, it seems)
21:19:13 <zzo38> The other game I play on X-BIT is Word Warp
21:19:52 <kmc> i claimed earlier that most of the taste of guacamole is not the avocado but the salt, tomato, onion, &c
21:20:00 <zzo38> Oops, the next game is at the opponent's stadium, so maybe I should have waited to upgrade the concession, and earned bank interest instead.
21:20:07 <kmc> avocado itself is kind of like butter
21:20:08 <oerjan> shachaf: i guess this may be part of that "you can emulate all other monads in delimited continuations" stuff?
21:20:57 <shachaf> Given that all I'm saying here is that (>>=) :: m a -> Cont (m b) (m a)
21:21:07 <shachaf> really it should be Codensity!!
21:21:22 <oerjan> oh right concatMap _is_ flip (>>=) for []
21:21:27 <shachaf> oerjan: btw i only want partial credit
21:22:07 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Cont'
21:22:07 <lambdabot> `Const' (imported from Control.Applicative),
21:22:13 <lambdabot> ((a -> b) -> a -> b) -> Cont (a -> b) a
21:22:43 <oerjan> that flipped thing looks interesting too...
21:23:08 <shachaf> (=<<) :: (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b
21:23:32 <shachaf> So it's just instantiating the ms to make it work.
21:24:01 <oerjan> well ok i was mainly surprised it typed at all
21:24:11 <shachaf> @ty runCont $ (cont . (=<<)) id
21:24:39 <oerjan> if you set b = a you have church numerals there...
21:25:01 <shachaf> That would be (b -> b) -> b -> b, wouldn't it?
21:25:17 <oerjan> i mean above in my first try
21:25:37 <oerjan> id _is_ a church numeral, just not the most interesting one
21:25:53 <shachaf> @ty (cont . (=<<)) (\f x -> f (f x))
21:26:20 <shachaf> @ty (=<<) (\f z -> f (f z))
21:26:28 <zzo38> I think it does makes more sense for (=<<) as well as return and join to be methods of Monad and then make Functor a superclass, similar to how Comonad is; since, it can be like a return/fmap/join or it can be (=<<) as a functor from the Kleisli category
21:27:05 <shachaf> > (<>) >>= (\f z -> f (f z)) $ "hello"
21:27:12 <shachaf> > (<>) >>= (\f z -> f (f (f z))) $ "hello"
21:29:42 <Sgeo> I've never tried guacamole
21:30:02 <Sgeo> I think IRC (and other chats) have prevented me from going off the deep end for a long time
21:30:16 <copumpkin> get off the computer and go get some right now
21:30:21 <Taneb> It's quite a nice dip
21:30:24 <Taneb> Good with potato skins
21:30:39 <shachaf> Sgeo: in my expert opinion they haven't hth
21:30:59 <oerjan> zzo38: making Functor a superclass of Monad was an April Fools joke in reddit r/haskell this year, btw; several people commented it was the only one they'd fallen for this year
21:31:21 <copumpkin> make it well and let it lead the way
21:31:34 <Sgeo> I think I'll just ask the person who makes hamburgers to put avocado on the side
21:31:46 <copumpkin> guacamole is so much more than just avocado
21:32:00 <oerjan> zzo38: so basically _many_ people have been wanting this for years, but it keeps being put off for a combination of backwards compatibility and technical reasons.
21:32:08 <copumpkin> I'm not even a huge fan of avocado on its own
21:32:18 <copumpkin> but combining it with spices, lime, onion, chunks of tomato, and so on
21:32:45 <oerjan> as in, no one has managed to make a solution that keeps backwards compatibility without subtle technical issues
21:33:11 <Taneb> Do we need to care about backwards compatibility? Look at what the GHC people did with Num
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21:33:58 <zzo38> Yes, there are compatibility reasons.
21:33:59 <Taneb> Just have the GHC people say "In 6 months, Applicative will be a superclass of Monad. If this breaks your code, on your head be it"
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21:35:12 <zzo38> I do have a solution but it requires making an entirely new programming language, mostly, and then having something to convert programs to combine modules if needed, possibly.
21:35:38 <Taneb> zzo38, that sounds a tad overkill
21:35:46 <oerjan> Taneb: well that _does_ give a precedent.
21:36:09 <zzo38> I also don't want Applicative to be a superclass even though I do want all Monad to automatically be Applicative, but using another mechanism (I can think of it, though); mathematically, Applicative is not a superclass of Monad.
21:36:59 <oerjan> as much as Functor is.
21:37:40 <oerjan> (<*>) = ap and pure = return work just as well as fmap = liftM
21:37:42 <zzo38> oerjan: No it isn't! The feature of the (->) category just happens to be that all monads on (->) are applicative. So this is a different kind of property than a superclass, I think.
21:38:16 <oerjan> zzo38: well Monad is just -> monads.
21:38:52 <oerjan> in a more general category, even >>= doesn't belong in the monad class.
21:39:11 <zzo38> oerjan: I agree that >>= doesn't belong; return, join, and =<< belong, but not >>=
21:40:24 <zzo38> Well, since there isn't another feature to do this, it could be a superclass, but then, there are a lot of other classes that want to do this and making them all superclasses when the programs aren't would confuse everything, which is why I think there ought to be another feature that can also do this too.
21:40:40 <nooodl> what other monads are there, next to (->)
21:41:11 <zzo38> (Possibly, like superclasses, but defined the other way around, I guess)
21:43:57 <nooodl> <oerjan> zzo38: well Monad is just -> monads.
21:44:05 <nooodl> are there "non-(->) moands"
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21:44:28 <shachaf> nooodl: There are monads in categories other than (->)
21:44:30 <zzo38> nooodl: There are monads on other categories. By -> monads it means monads on the (->) category
21:45:31 <Taneb> Are there monads on, eg, the Kleisli Maybe category
21:45:33 <zzo38> All categories have a Identity monad, and all categories with a final object have a Finalize monad for each final object it has, but other than that they have different monads
21:45:35 <Taneb> And what would they look like
21:46:48 <Koen_> why can't we travel through time but why do we want to anyway?
21:47:32 <Koen_> why is not moving traveling forward at one second per second enough
21:48:02 <Taneb> Koen_, we want control
21:48:09 <Taneb> We want to forsee, we want to change
21:48:15 <Koen_> please don't control me I like freedom
21:48:28 <Taneb> Of time, not of eachother
21:48:39 <Taneb> But for this purpose, only time
21:48:42 <Koen_> (unless you wearing high heels in that case control is ok)
21:49:15 <Koen_> Taneb: but you can change even without traveling through time right?
21:49:27 <Taneb> How would you recognize it as change?
21:49:31 <Koen_> though history tends to show politics are very very very very slow to evolve
21:49:40 <Taneb> It is, as far as you can tell, what would have happened anyway
21:49:44 <Taneb> The alpha timeline
21:49:47 <Koen_> Taneb: hmm well for instance my hair look different than last year
21:50:11 <Taneb> Also, I don't have any high heels that fit, but I'm pretty tall
21:50:13 <Koen_> so you're an alternate timelines partisan then
21:50:21 <Koen_> yeah that's been a problem to me too
21:50:28 <Taneb> I think that that's what makes most sense
21:50:57 <Koen_> it does make sense, most shoeshop people told me they had nothing above 45
21:51:12 <Koen_> (well at least french sizing I don' tknow about europe)
21:51:45 <Taneb> Much as I'd love to discuss time travel and high heels for people with larger feet with you, I have to sleep now
21:51:51 <Koen_> Taneb: so, suppose you travel back in time, change something, then "come back"
21:51:55 <Koen_> where do you come back to?
21:52:01 <Koen_> ok have nice sleep
21:52:19 <Taneb> It would depend on your time machine and if you left a tether or something
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21:52:28 <Koen_> it wouldn't make much sense to come "back" to the new timeline
21:52:36 <Koen_> since technically you've probably never left it
21:53:18 <zzo38> I don't think you can travel in time any way other than forward one second per second, *by definition*, but it might be possible to have a strange geometry of spacetime allowing forward in spacetime sometimes to be backwards geometry, maybe
21:53:24 <Koen_> (for instance if you go back in time because you want to "fix" something, in the new timeline in doesn't need fixing any more, thus the you from that new timeline has no incentive to travel back in time
21:54:13 <zzo38> My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell.
21:54:14 <Koen_> zzo38: for instance if some people start moving reaaaaaaaaaally fast at relativistic speeds would you say they travel through weird geometry?
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21:54:47 <zzo38> Koen_: Even if they do that, it doesn't go backwards or in other directions than it normally does, though.
21:55:25 <zzo38> Such things as warp drives and worm holes and whatever may result in strange connections between spacetime, though, I suppose.
21:56:38 <kmc> shachaf: are you going to enter in the Underhanded C Contest?
21:57:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:58:25 <shachaf> I wasn't planning on it... Should I?
21:58:47 <kmc> if i have a good idea
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22:00:43 <zzo38> I have looked at the Underhanded C codes, and find it is not so difficult to see that something is wrong with it, and what is wrong with it. But then, some people have called some of my ordinary C codes obfuscated, even though I don't think so.
22:02:14 <Koen_> kmc: how good at C do you have to be to enter? would you encourage some naive novice to rush in or should I watch from a distance?
22:02:43 <shachaf> Koen_: You have to be at least 14 good at it.
22:03:21 <Koen_> shachaf: I'm afraid that's 17 more than I am
22:04:44 <kmc> Koen_: i don't know
22:04:48 <kmc> take a look at some of the past winners
22:04:57 <kmc> keeping in mind that those are the best submissions and it might still be fun to attempt
22:05:53 <Koen_> maybe I'll try then
22:07:15 <zzo38> They look like they might seem like correctly to someone who doesn't know how to program a C code, but someone who does know how to program a C code should easily be able to see what went "wrong", as far as I can tell.
22:07:43 <kmc> C is easy, you just need to think about everything all the time and never make any mistakes
22:07:44 <Bike> Well the point isn't to make them undetectable, just not trivially detectable, and even then look like an accident, right?
22:08:13 <Fiora> from looking at the past entries, it seems way less about abusing C too much and more about just really creative sneakiness
22:08:21 <Fiora> like bugs that are literally omitting a comma in the right place
22:09:07 <Bike> speaking of C I'm semi-trying a "low level" lisp implementation for once
22:09:25 <nooodl> my favorite underhanded c code entry is the "censoring an image" one's winner
22:09:25 <Bike> a closure can just be a function pointer plus a void* array for the closed over values, i think
22:09:44 <nooodl> http://notanumber.net/archives/54/underhanded-c-the-leaky-redaction
22:12:09 <Bike> wow, PPM is simple isn't it
22:12:13 <oerjan> `addquote <zzo38> My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell.
22:12:20 <HackEgo> 1015) <zzo38> My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell.
22:15:30 <oerjan> nooodl: i was slightly proud that i saw how it worked without looking at the explanation
22:16:00 <kmc> Bike: yeah, PPM is nice
22:16:12 <kmc> you can write a PPM reader / writer in any language in 2 minutes
22:16:15 <kmc> except malbolge
22:16:24 <kmc> also there are two variants, binary PPM and ascii PPM
22:17:00 <Bike> i assume there's a unicode ppm that lets me use ⁰ and such
22:17:04 <shachaf> Hmm, no, it's pgm that i love
22:17:46 <kmc> shachaf: because it's so easy?
22:17:48 <zzo38> I have written a program in TeX to read ASCII PBM
22:18:05 <pikhq> PNM is a fairly nice format.
22:18:15 <shachaf> kmc: It's true that i love it, and it's true that it is so easy.
22:18:21 <shachaf> I make no claims about causal relations.
22:20:19 <kmc> itt relevance logic
22:20:27 <kmc> zzo38: cool
22:21:21 <zzo38> TeX doesn't have a command to read arbitrary binary files (the only binary file it can read is TFM), although it can read/write arbitrary ASCII files.
22:21:36 <zzo38> kmc: To include a picture on a page without using specials.
22:22:24 <zzo38> I thought that was obviously?
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22:28:09 <kmc> it's never obviously with you zzo38
22:28:42 <zzo38> Well, to me it is, anyways.
22:28:53 <zzo38> Maybe to you it isn't.
22:28:56 <kmc> maybe you had implemented an astrology calculator / Pokémon card game simulator in Plain TeX and wanted to load Pokémon cards as ASCII PBM files
22:29:20 <oerjan> `addquote <kmc> healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage <kmc> sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes
22:29:24 <HackEgo> 1016) <kmc> healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage <kmc> sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes
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22:29:59 <lambdabot> zzo38 says: Such as, we try to make something similar to a combination of Haskell, C, BLISS, TeX, WEB, Prolog, INTERCAL, and Magic: the Gathering; and then make it with many things omitted such as
22:29:59 <lambdabot> Unicode syntax, layout, do-notation, list comprehensions; and add in macros and stuff, and then make up something new......
22:30:33 <Sgeo> shachaf, is this you? http://wqdb.org/?732
22:30:53 <Sgeo> (yes I'm only saying that because of the nick)
22:31:15 <Sgeo> (And no I don't think it's really you)
22:31:26 <zzo38> kmc: Implementing ephemeris in TeX would be helpful, but I don't have one and don't really know how.
22:31:33 <kmc> shachaf doesn't even own a television
22:32:21 <Sgeo> Got it. So it's GreeN who is shachaf.
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22:33:07 <shachaf> i don't even own a television, but i don't even not own a television either
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22:34:10 <Sgeo> Do you either odd own a television or odd not own a television?
22:35:14 <oerjan> was there a cat inside
22:35:34 <shachaf> In some ways I understand Sgeo less than I do zzo38.
22:35:36 <oerjan> shachaf: he's even odder than usual
22:36:06 <Sgeo> shachaf, the prior question is what was known as an attempt at humor.
22:36:20 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to sgeo38.
22:36:26 <shachaf> Sgeo: I'm not talking about the prior question.
22:36:31 <shachaf> I"m talking about everything you say.
22:36:35 <kmc> maybe sgo38
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22:37:04 <kmc> hm zzo38 did you go to school at Cambridge in the UK?
22:37:43 <kmc> cantabrigians have usernames like [a-z]{3}[0-9]{2}
22:37:46 <zzo38> I went to school at some schools in British Columbia
22:37:52 <sgo38> shachaf, IRC is my primary social life. Does that help?
22:38:06 <zzo38> kmc: Then perhaps it is some coincidence?
22:39:27 <oerjan> > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum)"zzo38" "aaron"
22:39:52 <kmc> the probability that 5 random characters from [a-z0-9] fit that pattern is 2.91%
22:39:52 <oerjan> > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum.toUpper)"zzo38" "aaron"
22:41:10 <oerjan> > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum)"ZZO38" "aaron"
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22:41:46 <oerjan> > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum)"ZZo38" "aarON"
22:42:12 <nooodl> iirc there was a chronojournal entry about the origin of zzo38
22:42:27 <nooodl> and the digits 3 and 8
22:42:33 <tswett> Hm. What's my favorite two-digit number.
22:42:44 <Bike> Yeah, 64 for sure.
22:42:46 <oerjan> zzt was some system or other, no?
22:42:51 <kmc> 2^3 = 8, coincidence? i think not
22:42:58 <kmc> zzt is a weird dos game i thought
22:43:00 <tswett> Yeah, that's a pretty good number. 13*5, isn't it?
22:43:06 <nooodl> it's a dos game/game creation system
22:43:14 <Bike> Sure, if you do that "multiplication" crud.
22:43:23 <oerjan> which zzo38 has programmed iirc
22:43:26 <kmc> perhaps 2^3 = 1
22:43:53 <zzo38> I know many things about ZZT; the documentation doesn't mention everything properly but I can figure out many thing by myself
22:43:55 <kmc> `run python -c 'print 2^3'
22:44:32 <zzo38> So I think I know why the #DIE command sometimes causes other pieces to move
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22:44:49 <Bike> `run python -c 'print (2 ** 3) % 7'
22:45:05 <shachaf> kmc: of course it's not a coincidence
22:45:17 <kmc> coin cidence
22:45:23 <Bike> i should pronounce it like
22:45:29 <Bike> just for the hell of it
22:45:39 <shachaf> Isn't that how it's pronounced?
22:47:36 <zzo38> Using a debugger I have managed to copy the table storing the properties of all of the pieces, and formatted it and print it out, and now I can understand what all of that means; most things I did not need a debugger to figure out though.
22:49:58 <zzo38> Other people have helped a few things such as figuring out the format of the music in the executable file, though.
22:50:17 <zzo38> My method is the scientific method to figure out all of these things.
22:50:52 <kmc> i register both "co incidence" and "quincidence" as correct
22:50:57 <kmc> one day I should learn IPA
22:51:18 <kmc> then i can talk about voiced medial post-alevolar fricatives or whatever
22:51:45 <olsner> I thought IPA was separate from all those fancy names for sounds
22:51:45 <sgo38> fictional frictional fricatives
22:51:59 <kmc> i need to learn the names of sounds and then how to represent them in IPA
22:52:43 <Bike> well, it has a character for each phoneme. good enough for me
22:53:06 <zzo38> I have once made up a set of symbols that overlap so one means voiced, one is medial, one is post-alevolar, one is fricatives, whatever, one for consonants and one for vowels (which works differently), rather than using letters of the alphabet like IPA use
22:53:10 <Bike> Anyway I think I mostly meant a change in stress. Making the "co" very distinct.
22:53:25 <olsner> but even IPA is only an approximation of the actual sounds, and many sounds that have the same IPA symbol may not sound the same
22:53:30 <kmc> zzo38: that sounds like it could be better
22:53:58 <Bike> I think that's how Hangul works.
22:54:11 <Bike> olsner: well yeah, it's phonemes, not sounds.
22:54:16 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, the actual names of sounds are fairly easy to learn
22:54:22 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, I know that is what I think better too
22:54:31 <zzo38> That is why I did it.
22:57:01 <oerjan> <pikhq> Also, it's Ig Noble. <-- no it's Ig Nobel hth
22:57:07 <Jafet> Coincide, the killing of coins.
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23:31:24 <zzo38> I think Esoteric Verilog is more than Turing complete
23:36:05 <sgo38> But I have things I need to do
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23:55:34 <kmc> `run echo hello | iconv -t baudot
23:55:36 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion to `baudot' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
23:56:37 <Bike> oh that's where "baud" is from neat
23:57:18 <kmc> they're named after the same person yeah
23:57:50 <kmc> why is there no unit named the shannon :/