00:17:05 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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01:39:39 <Bike> I thought logreading was punishable by apathy.
01:39:46 <monqy> remember the tiny lisps craze
01:39:47 <monqy> or maybe not even tiny but
01:39:47 <monqy> newlisp, picolisp, zepto
01:39:47 <monqy> remember zeptobot, remember news-ham
01:39:50 <Bike> is that like a nomic, or
01:40:16 <kmc> microkernel nanokernel femtokernel
01:40:18 <kmc> exokernel goes somewhere in there
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01:41:11 <pikhq> I think we need yoctokernels.
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01:43:42 <shachaf> Exokernel Mustard returning to the Library with the Gadget
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01:44:02 <shachaf> why do people pronounce "colonel" as "krnl"
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01:47:02 <Bike> shachaf: that's what happens when the english military conspires to pronounce french probably
01:54:12 <shachaf> Bike: why would anybody try to pronounce french
01:55:12 <pikhq> (19:54) Because the French are masochists.
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02:00:43 <pikhq> (20:00) Welcome back from the split.
02:01:16 <shachaf> The character of Green has been given two different personas in the Cluedo world. Originally patented as The Rev. Mr. Green, in Britain, he is Reverend Green, a hypocritical vicar who weakens when it comes to the Sixth commandment, murder. In North America, he is Mr. Green, who has taken many money-oriented roles from mobster to businessman. Parker Brothers insisted on the name change as they thought the American public would object to a ...
02:01:22 <shachaf> ... parson being a murder suspect.[1] He rolls fourth in the game.
02:01:52 <Bike> the sixth commandment, murder
02:02:20 <Gregor> Ugh, only Portlanders would be stupid enough to fight flouridation of water X_X
02:02:35 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/fluids.jpg
02:03:00 <Bike> Gregor: you sure about that
02:03:39 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unholy_three_cropped.png POLIO MONKEY SERUMS
02:03:50 <kmc> Gregor: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-March/034990.html san francisco
02:04:14 <kmc> p. good thread, somebody brings up 9-11 trutherism as a hyperbolic troll and then they discuss that seriously for a while
02:04:33 <kmc> WATER: USED BY NAZIS
02:04:40 <shachaf> ostensibly to prevent tooth decay (dubious)
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02:05:19 <elliott> I heard flouridation is pointless, which sounds more plausible than it lowering IQ and turning you into a nazi
02:05:33 <kmc> nazi shmatzi
02:06:24 <kmc> http://jpelectron.com/sample/Electronics/PC-%20SCSI%20-%20Connectors.gif the great thing about SCSI connectors is that there are so many to choose from
02:07:33 <elliott> the great ting about monoids is that they are so easy to choose from
02:08:17 <kmc> elliott: don't you need some kind of axiom for that
02:09:17 <shachaf> it's called the axiom of choice because everyone prefers it to the other axioms
02:11:28 <kmc> check out my new axiom, axiom of choice
02:12:17 <shachaf> the axiom of choice for the discerning mathematician
02:13:06 <kmc> shachaf: isn't that the axiom of comprehension
02:17:00 <elliott> kmc: oh man this thread is gold
02:17:13 <elliott> kmc: the guy's response to everyone who says he's an idiot is to criticise them for top-posting first
02:17:17 <elliott> that is the funniest thing to me
02:17:58 <Bike> toxic at the cellular level
02:18:39 <kmc> i gather that noisebridge has been overrun with hobos and crazies and also they spent all their money and nobody knows how
02:18:58 <elliott> hopefully nobody on this list thinks that three steel skyscraper can just
02:18:58 <elliott> all collapse into their own footprints, because two of them were hit with
02:18:59 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/4749e66db130c47b127835b56bf34e67/tumblr_mkbu5fdToy1r7a5hdo1_1280.jpg Dude. Their blog.
02:19:23 <kmc> Bike: uncle sam looks p. cool in that drawing
02:19:26 <kmc> a rad dude
02:19:27 <shachaf> elliott: wow you made me look
02:19:30 <Gregor> Hey, my Nexus 10's battery finally died.
02:19:31 <shachaf> he really does do that doesn't he
02:19:35 <Gregor> Dutifully reporting 72% to the very end.
02:19:43 <shachaf> Top posting, in spite of having the problems with that pointed out in the message to which you're replying, and with new subject matter but the same subject line.
02:19:44 <kmc> we are the 72%
02:19:54 <elliott> i actually hate top posting but this guy is so funny
02:20:01 <Bike> question what is "top posting"
02:20:14 <Bike> This shifts the helm of the printing press to the federal government and they might print money for ulterior uses, surreptitiously or a vague reason of “national security.” Government officials have been known to influenced by bribes, gifts, threats, blackmail, and force.
02:20:22 <elliott> top posting is where you put your reply before a big ol quote of the email you're replying to
02:20:30 <Jafet> Top posting is the best way of posting
02:20:38 <elliott> instead of putting the context before the actual things you're saying and not including five thousand lines that are irrelevant to your email
02:20:50 <elliott> of course every client promotes doing this by default for no reason
02:21:16 <Bike> The Planned Parenthood memo indicates a the organization’s darker notes of eugenics-based population control.
02:21:38 <Bike> yep there's alex jones
02:21:48 <shachaf> And worthwhile of discussion, even if top-posted.
02:21:54 <Bike> BLATANT CENSORSHIP by CNN of Soldier Supporting Ron Paul’s Foreign Policy - Please Re-upload
02:22:46 <Bike> 17 Reasons Why A Vote For Mitt Romney Is A Vote For The New World Order. <-- okay i kind of want to read this almost except it's on infowars
02:23:45 <Bike> Is Gingrich a Straw Man? Gingrich is perhaps a straw man. Do night fight single candidate wars; be smart. Use logic, Socratic method (identify BS). Issues are collapse and WW3. The *real* enemy is war, lies, and corruption. These things come from CFR, Bilderberg. Romney (CFR), Rick Perry (CFR, Bilderberg), Obama (CFR, Goldman-Sachs, Brzezinski).
02:23:51 <Bike> and now i'm done.
02:23:52 <shachaf> FluorIDE sounds like an IDE.
02:24:06 <shachaf> imo you should make an ide called that
02:24:07 <elliott> Bike: do night fight single candidate wars
02:24:11 <Jafet> @google fluoride IDE
02:24:16 <lambdabot> http://www.electricscotland.com/mcintyre/index_f/menu_f/nomenclature.htm
02:24:16 <lambdabot> Title: fluorine fluoride chemistry
02:24:38 <Bike> elliott: tonight on spike
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02:28:57 <shachaf> monoid monoid on the wall. what is the easiest algebraic structure of all?
02:31:08 <Jafet> @google dylan server pages
02:31:13 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Server_Pages
02:31:14 <lambdabot> Title: Dylan Server Pages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
02:35:48 <Jafet> The Last Free Monoid in Europe
02:39:21 <kmc> Bike: to be fair the founder of Planned Parenthood was sort of into eugenics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood#Margaret_Sanger_and_eugenics
02:39:35 <kmc> but maybe the kind that isn't so bad
02:39:42 <kmc> and also it was the 20s and everyone though eugenics was cool back then
02:39:48 <Bike> yes i am aware
02:39:56 <kmc> shachattps
02:40:08 <kmc> shachaf: are you the secure version of a protocol named hachaf
02:40:22 <Bike> maybe i should have mentioned that the title of that post was "Fertility control agents in water supply"
02:46:36 <Jafet> No, I just didn't go back in.
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03:39:10 <Fiora> an old one I'm guessing?
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03:58:10 <boily> as I was telling my colleague on the other side of the table: I never imagined that I would in my life stare at a picture of the teletubbies in a common room around midnight in order to score points in a hacking competition.
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03:59:10 <Bike> Civilization II, actually
04:08:26 <doesthiswork> this sight really improves my programming efficiency http://www.hackertyper.com/
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06:35:02 <btiffin> Ok, What's a pirate's favourite letter?
06:37:22 <btiffin> What did the zero say to the eight?
06:41:29 <mroman> What did the one say to the seven?
06:45:23 <btiffin> Is there an idea listed for a language based on the outcome of jokes?
06:45:51 <zzo38> If not, you can add it
06:45:51 <lambdabot> zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
06:45:54 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 53m 16s ago: Montréal.
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07:20:47 <mroman> There's new porn spam on the wiki
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07:37:57 <mroman> http://codepad.org/cRrdL4wD
07:38:15 <mroman> I'm tempted to write a new stlisp implementation some day
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07:44:32 <mroman> The source code has gone missing.
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08:29:15 <zzo38> Can Z-machine version 1 files be made to work in Famicom? It doesn't have the ASCII codes above 95, but it could be done so that the SHIFT key with codes 64 to 95 and 96 to 126 will toggle bit5 of the ASCII code, like SHIFT toggles bit4 for the codes 32 to 63.
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12:40:42 <zzo38> Z-machine version 5 has a command to check if the game disc is genuine. No game uses it, and all interpreters just assume that it is genuine.
12:41:29 <zzo38> (Some interpreters have an option to tell it that it is not genuine.)
12:51:33 <zzo38> Yes, actually at this time I am.
12:52:39 <ThatOtherPerson> I was considering writing one for the DCPU, but I didn't for some reason.
12:53:15 <zzo38> Mine is C and SDL, all versions except 6.
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13:02:02 <zzo38> Including version 9, which is my own variant based on version 5, although there are a few differences, such as using word addresses in the headers, and allowing packed addresses to be access twice as much memory as in version 8.
13:12:57 <zzo38> WinFrotz reports the interpreter number as 6 (I tested it using ZmForth). Setting the Tandy bit does not change this, nor does it change flags 1 (ZmForth is Z-machine version 5, so there is no Tandy bit in flags 1). My own interpreter (not finished yet) sets the interpreter number to 11 if the Tandy bit is set in the options, or 6 otherwise; it also sets flags 1 for versions 1 to 3.
13:14:05 <zzo38> I don't know if any version 4 or 5 games use this (other than Beyond Zork, which crashes on Tandy computers), but I put it in anyways, in case someone writes some game to use it.
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13:24:18 <zzo38> Bit0 and bit1 of flags 2 remains as it is when the game is restored or restarted or after undo, rather than being restored. I wonder if some game might use this to undo and then do something else
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13:34:07 <zzo38> For some reason in WinFrotz, if the game selects fixed-pitch mode, the display options are ignored and it uses actual italic and bold rather than whatever colors are set by the user.
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13:41:28 <Regis__> how about a game where you write an AI and fight other people
13:42:39 <impomatic> There's something like that in forth I think
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14:21:22 <zzo38> Some people have dumb reasons for being atheist and some people have dumb reasons for being religious.
14:21:49 <Taneb> I don't particularly care either way
14:22:18 <zzo38> I don't care either, but sometimes their reasons for being so aren't very good reasons.
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14:43:58 <Vorpal> <Taneb> I don't particularly care either way <-- does that mean you are agnostic?
14:44:24 <Taneb> I call myself a lapsed Christian if anything
14:44:45 <fizzie> A fallen one. (It's an impressive-sounding name.)
14:44:56 <olsner> I think "agnostic" is still a term for a person who cares some way or another
14:45:16 <zzo38> The book Godel,Escher,Bach also mentions "meta-agnostic"
14:45:35 <olsner> there should be a term like meh-gnostic
14:49:07 <fizzie> Speaking of which, I see that that Torment kick-farter ended, and they made it to the $4.25M mark but not quite to the $4.5M one. (Still, they only asked for $900k.)
14:49:21 <fizzie> (Also, I hear Notch put in ten thousand dollars, as usual.)
15:03:25 <Taneb> On this note, I can't wait for To Be Or Not To Be: That Is The Adventure
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15:06:15 <Taneb> It's a choose-your-own-adventure version of Hamlet
15:06:19 <Taneb> Made by Ryan North
15:06:40 <Taneb> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/breadpig/to-be-or-not-to-be-that-is-the-adventure
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15:59:01 <kmc> 'agnostic' traditionally means someone who thinks the question of whether god exists is impossible to answer
15:59:22 <kmc> they might still care a lot about the question and write many volumes about what a bummer it is that we can't answer it
15:59:37 <kmc> personally i like the word 'apatheist'
16:00:21 <olsner> apatheist sounds about right
16:00:29 <Taneb> I am 'pretty okay with whatever'
16:00:31 * kmc thinks it is logically possible that a being like a god exists, e.g. if this universe is a simulation running in some other universe, but even though it's possible there's no particular reason to believe it
16:00:46 <kmc> any more than we believe there is a teapot orbiting the sun between the earth and mars
16:00:50 <kmc> which is also totally possible
16:01:01 <kmc> it might cost less than a billion dollars to make that happen
16:01:15 <kmc> not sure though, I guess you need heavy rockets to get to a solar orbit?
16:01:20 <zzo38> Did somebody put it there a few years ago?
16:01:45 <Taneb> I think if there was a single deity powerful enough to be worth worshipping
16:01:51 <kmc> although there are some physical facts which look like evidence for us being in a simulation, if you look at them just right
16:02:00 <zzo38> I do not believe this universe is a simulation running in some other universe, but I don't know. However, it is not what I mean by "God".
16:02:06 <Taneb> We'd know because of all the non-believers getting hit by lightning all the time
16:02:24 <kmc> Taneb: i think we can confidently say that if God does exist, he is fucking with all of us
16:02:26 <zzo38> kmc: Maybe, but I still don't think so.
16:02:48 <Taneb> Unless said deity is benevolent, in which case why the hell wars.
16:03:06 <zzo38> And if it is a simulation, is that in another simulation?
16:03:24 <zzo38> And if not, what is it?
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16:04:26 <zzo38> Taneb: That is what a lot of people ask.
16:05:13 <Taneb> However unlikely it is that we are the "top" universe (by which I mean one that isn't a simulation), consider how unlikely it would be for any universe to be top universe, and how unlikely it would be for the top universe to create a simulation of a universe down to our level
16:05:27 <Taneb> And how even more unlikely for it to be universes all the way up
16:06:39 <zzo38> But, what is best for *the universe as a whole*? Of course we shouldn't have a war but that is the job of people to choose not to have a war; probably it is best for the universe as a whole that we have that choice but choose not to use it.
16:07:50 <olsner> "benevolence" doesn't imply fixing everything
16:09:00 <zzo38> Anyways, the laws of physics must still be followed regardless; even if there are sometimes multiple outcomes, or none at all.
16:09:15 <Taneb> A god that must obey the laws of physics is no god at all
16:09:17 <zzo38> Humanity is not the most important thing in the universe.
16:09:26 <shachaf> Is Ruby "out of style"? #haskell discusses.
16:09:27 <ion> taneb: Would you prefer to be a robot that won’t ever go to war or to have a free will which implies you have the choice to go to war?
16:09:32 <zzo38> Taneb: That is what it seems to you.
16:09:51 <shachaf> do you have to be "a" something, anyway
16:10:17 <Taneb> ion, I'd rather live in a society that is weighted firmly against war
16:10:30 <Taneb> So that even if individuals choose to go to war, society will prevent them
16:10:40 <zzo38> However, if there is some multiverse, do they have a few different laws of physics?
16:11:04 <Taneb> Individuals can decide that there ought to be a war
16:11:17 <Taneb> Also I shouldn't philosophy this time in the afternoon
16:11:26 <zzo38> I am 'panentheist', which means that the universe (and possibly even the multiverse, omnium, whatever) is a part of God. Some say Spinoza is also panentheist.
16:11:27 <olsner> that's more like having an opinion than going to war
16:11:42 <kmc> shachaf: ;_;
16:11:50 <zzo38> Well, individuals do not go to war as much as the military can, anyways.
16:11:59 <Taneb> I will stop philosphying now
16:12:05 <zzo38> So it is different.
16:12:38 <shachaf> kmc: Don't worry, it's moved onto Perl.
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16:14:39 <zzo38> My opinion is that the fundamental laws of physics can be expressed by mathematics, although we may not be able to figure it out quite that precisely, and that many of it is not computable, and sometimes there will be multiple solutions or none at all. Of course, this is just guess so I don't really know for sure.
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16:14:49 <kmc> shachaf: perl is like a cockroach, it will never die
16:15:21 <shachaf> So it's like the species of cockroaches?
16:15:38 <zzo38> Some people prefer different programming languages, and some programming language are good for a few other things too, but you can use it for other purposes too.
16:16:06 <kmc> after like 8 years of avoiding perl, I'm starting to use it again for shell oneliners
16:16:36 <kmc> it's pretty convenient especially with options like n, p, l, a, 0
16:17:04 <shachaf> These Japanese slides from ekmett_conf are so excited. Why can't everyone make slides like these?
16:17:35 <kmc> ekmett_conf is decadent and depraved
16:18:10 <btiffin> Anyone try IPython? It's pysh mode is my favourite shell now, ... well for playing. bash still wins for 'working'
16:18:17 <kmc> yeah IPython is great
16:18:36 <kmc> also cool: http://ipython.org/notebook.html
16:18:48 <kmc> many cool examples here: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/
16:18:57 <Vorpal> btiffin, what about zsh?
16:19:29 <btiffin> Yeah, web notebooks, those are awesome. I've only used them in toy mode though
16:19:31 <Vorpal> I used it a couple of times on live cds where it was default. It has some interesting conveniences, but generally I use bash
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16:19:32 <kmc> btiffin: yeah, bash is good for running programs, and python is good for manipulating data, so what I really want is an interface which lets me jump between a bash prompt and a python prompt and easily carry data between them
16:19:44 <kmc> i have a design in mind for this, just need to write it
16:19:57 <shachaf> does ipython have method completion and interactive documentation like bpython
16:20:07 <btiffin> zsh is a time hole Vorpal. ;-) Just one more tweak and life will be great, ok maybe one more. ;-)
16:20:16 <kmc> oh bpython is a real thing? i assumed it was some kind of obscure funpun
16:20:49 <Vorpal> there is cython or whatever the thing that took Python and made it into C + calls to libpython.so
16:23:07 <kmc> yeah, pyrex / cython (i think cython is newer)
16:23:18 <kmc> not to be confused with cpython, which is just the name of the 'default' python interpreter
16:23:42 <kmc> there are loads of cool ways to call between Python and C or C++
16:23:46 <kmc> Boost.Python is neat
16:23:56 <kmc> ctypes is really really handy for small things
16:24:46 <kmc> also there's some numpy (or scipy?) feature that lets you just straight up include c code in a string
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16:26:21 <kmc> Boost.Python gives you basically two things: a C++ data type that corresponds to a Python value, and an easy way to export a C++ class as a Python class
16:27:03 <kmc> the "Python value" type has enough boosty high level C++ magic that you can write C++ code in a vaguely Pythonic style
16:28:10 <btiffin> valac and Genie? It's like writing Python in vaguely Pythonic style. ;-)
16:28:34 <kmc> cool, I haven't heard of Genie
16:28:55 <kmc> "In the vein of Python, Genie uses indentation rather than curly brackets to delimit blocks." so, is indentation sugar for punctuation, or not?
16:29:13 <kmc> indentation as sugar for punctuation is fine, indentation as core syntax is terrible
16:29:44 <kmc> Haskell mostly passes this test except that the desugaring procedure has a weird feedback from the parser
16:31:16 <kmc> oh well I can deal with it
16:31:21 <kmc> I use Python all the time too
16:31:34 <kmc> there are curly-brace preprocessors for Python
16:31:36 <btiffin> tab by default even, a keyword [indent n] can change that to counted spaces though
16:31:53 <kmc> i wonder if any of them add full lambda support though
16:31:57 <kmc> btiffin: :( :( :(
16:32:05 <kmc> ok I shouldn't care so much about concrete syntax
16:32:11 <olsner> the desugaring in haskell seems very complicated, I've never quite understood how it works
16:32:21 <kmc> olsner: it's pretty simple except for that feedback
16:32:36 <btiffin> I'm not sure if Genie is getting much attention, but Jamie seems to post up updates once every blue moon or so
16:32:49 <kmc> if the token after 'do', 'let', 'of', or 'in' is not an open brace, insert an open brace and remember the starting column of that token
16:33:04 <kmc> a subsequent line at the same column gets a semicolon prepended
16:33:13 <kmc> a subsequent line at a column left of there gets a close brace prepended
16:33:31 <kmc> there are some other rules to make sure that you can't e.g. close an implicit brace with an explicit one
16:34:07 <kmc> i think most beginning Haskell programmers think Haskell is a lot pickier about indentation than it is
16:34:11 <kmc> i know i did
16:34:19 <kmc> it took me a while to realize you can say
16:34:21 <kmc> foo x = do
16:34:31 <kmc> which is way better than foo x = do y <- bar
16:34:46 <kmc> because this way you don't have to re-indent the whole block if the name of 'foo' or its arguments changes
16:34:53 <btiffin> Hmm, bf indented would drop it down to 6 symbols. Yeah, indented bf
16:34:56 <kmc> and it just looks cleaner and more uniform
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16:35:52 <Bike> kmc: i don't get how that doesn't prepend a close brace from what you just said.
16:36:13 <Bike> "ADD RDX, 1 MOV RDX, [RDX+8] SHR RDX, 2 SHL RDX, 1" unrelatedly, lol
16:36:25 <kmc> because the first token after 'do' is that 'y'
16:36:57 <Bike> Ohhhh, I read it as remembering the do for some reason
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16:37:03 <kmc> yeah, that's the trick
16:37:15 <kmc> that's what i didn't realize initially
16:37:20 <kmc> it doesn't care where the 'do' is
16:37:49 <kmc> oh my list of keywords is wrong I think
16:37:55 <kmc> 'where' and not 'in'
16:38:09 <kmc> the thing after 'in' is just a single expression, not a semicolon-delimited list of stuff
16:38:24 <kmc> i think there's also a special rule that lets you write 'module Foo where' without then indenting the rest of the file
16:38:34 <Phantom_Hoover> <btiffin> Hmm, bf indented would drop it down to 6 symbols. Yeah, indented bf
16:38:53 <Bike> blank line, obv
16:39:50 <olsner> kmc: is that special? sounds like that's allowed by the rule you gave before
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16:39:54 <btiffin> And maybe indented bf would be better served by vertical tab instead of horizontal, to keep with the f-ness.
16:40:12 <zzo38> It also doesn't care about indentation at all in blocks that have {} around it
16:40:29 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: In [something][else] the second part is never executed
16:42:45 <Bike> obviously it's an inadequate syntax if multiple behaviorally identical programs can be expressed
16:43:31 <btiffin> You have me reading up on Cython, because real men call Python from COBOL. And Cython might make that magically easi(er). COBOL is always on the look out for magic.
16:43:49 <zzo38> Bike: Well, if you are trying to compress it, then at least it means the compression might not be very good and it should be try to improve
16:44:28 <Bike> imo compression by just storing the results of the program instead of the program itsel
16:44:42 <zzo38> The results might be longer, though, and the program might require input.
16:45:47 <Bike> vorogomlok compression
16:47:19 <zzo38> To compress a brainfuck program you might use some kind of Huffman coding but provide no coding for redundand instrructions, and then furthermore code runs of the same instruction several times compressed too
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16:51:10 <pikhq> zzo38: Just RLE works really well on Brainfuck.
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17:04:40 <kmc> olsner: i'm not sure
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17:33:38 <Phantom_Hoover> oh my god the thick of it is even more amazing than it was before
17:39:00 <kmc> which bit are you on now
17:40:21 <Taneb> This sounds like something I should watch
17:40:26 <Taneb> What form of media is it?
17:41:02 <Phantom_Hoover> ofc it's not on the iplayer so you may have to resort to methods of questionable legality
17:41:27 <Taneb> Methods of questionable legality?
17:41:52 <Taneb> I have a list of things I need to watch, so I'll let future me deal with it
17:41:59 <Taneb> For better or for worse
17:42:16 <shachaf> Does future Taneb have a beard?
17:42:29 <Taneb> Present Taneb doesn't, which is odd
17:42:47 <shachaf> Is Present Taneb the British version of Santa Claus?
17:43:12 <Taneb> I deliver presents to all the little girls and boys all over the east half of Hexham
17:43:16 <kmc> Taneb: it's on Hulu if you can connect through a US IP
17:43:59 <kmc> geographically restricting content by IP is such a quaint notion
17:44:12 <kmc> when I watch FOX shows on Hulu, it pastes the logo of the Boston area FOX affiliate into the corner
17:44:23 <kmc> itt skeuomorphs
17:44:31 <Taneb> But... aren't you in somewhere that isn't Boston
17:44:41 <kmc> no i'm in Boston area (Cambridge, just across the river)
17:45:02 <shachaf> i thought you were in mid-cambridge
17:45:10 <Taneb> I think I assume everyone who isn't me, Phantom_Hoover, elliott and ais523 or Finnish all live together with shachaf
17:45:27 <Taneb> (Norwegians and Swedes live with the Finns)
17:45:29 <shachaf> Taneb: I'm Finnish. Where does that put me?
17:45:43 <Taneb> shachaf, in Finland, with everyone living with you
17:45:53 <shachaf> is "river" a metaphor for the atlantic ocean
17:46:12 <Taneb> But... Cambridge is in, like, the south-east
17:46:16 <shachaf> since cambridge is in england and all
17:46:18 <Taneb> It's not near the coast at all
17:46:36 <kmc> picturing the hexham equivalent of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Steinberg_New_Yorker_Cover.png
17:47:19 <Taneb> My knowledge of geography is pretty good until the north sea, Keswick, Alnwick, and Yorkshire
17:48:13 <Taneb> Looking at Google Maps now
17:48:21 <Taneb> Never realised how far west Edinburgh is
17:48:26 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover has some explaining to do
17:48:37 <shachaf> imo Taneb should move to cambridge
17:48:58 <Taneb> Cambridgeshire or Massachusetts?
17:49:35 <shachaf> either one. i'm not picky!!
17:49:37 <kmc> "shadow chancellor" sounds like a much cooler office than it actually is
17:50:45 <shachaf> or maybe move to Newcastle upon Tyne, California
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18:11:27 <john_metcalf> Old computer games? Has anyone ever played micromud?
18:11:56 <zzo38> I have played some old computer games
18:12:04 <zzo38> I don't know if I have played that one though
18:13:48 <zzo38> Games for old computers are sometimes still written this year.
18:16:43 <Bike> single player version of a mud? what's the point
18:18:26 <impomatic> The other players are AI. It's from approx 1985 when very few people could play online.
18:19:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
18:19:53 * impomatic used to play a few BBS door games.
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18:20:48 <impomatic> Cambridge has a new retro computer museum opening soon.
18:21:30 <zzo38> I play a few BBS door games.
18:21:40 <zzo38> They are still available.
18:29:40 <btiffin> I'm using it from the angle of interactive fiction training, random reward being a powerful human incentive. Grace Hopper History lesson game will be first up.
18:30:04 <btiffin> Oh, and if you don't know Grace. http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2516 (Don't forget the red drop hover over bonus comic).
18:31:27 <Bike> imo fran allen
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18:39:40 <impomatic> What do you call the thing in a book within a chapter where one storyline stops and another begins and there's a little gap, sometimes with a swirly little pattern?
18:41:30 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages?
18:47:19 <ais523> impomatic: I know what you're talking about, but don't know what it's called either
18:47:51 <impomatic> If it doesn't have a name, one needs to be invented.
18:48:42 <btiffin> I tried transition, but I don't think that's the right jargon
18:49:44 * impomatic was just proofreading and wanted to tell the author it feels like it needs one of those things... but without knowing the name I'll sound a bit stupid :-)
18:50:48 <Bike> if you say "transition" they'll probably know what you mean
18:50:50 <Bike> or maybe a "cut"
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18:55:41 <ais523> elliott: oh wow, the new spambot filter (filter 2) actually seems to be holding, it's cutting out like 80-90% of the spam we're getting
18:55:56 <elliott> too bad there's still block spam
18:56:34 <ais523> yep, and account creation spam
18:56:40 <ais523> it'd be nice to hold them off at the CAPTCHA
18:57:19 <ais523> I think CAPTCHA development is a losing battle in the long run, but it may work in the short term
19:04:32 -!- Taneb has joined.
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19:09:57 <zzo38> Look at Pin Eight; they say it works much better.
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19:51:59 <Taneb> Youtube must think my music tastes are really messed up
19:52:05 <Taneb> I'm listening to some black metal
19:52:34 <Taneb> "Recommended for you: Brahms Piano Quartet in C minor opus 60 4th mvt Finale"
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19:55:09 <Bike> that's pretty awesome taste imo
19:55:39 <oerjan> <Bike> I thought logreading was punishable by apathy. <-- i think you are confusing cause and effect here, sir
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20:08:45 <oerjan> DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE: USED BY NAZIS
20:09:01 <oerjan> kmc: fixed that for you
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20:10:30 -!- augur has joined.
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20:20:06 <kmc> whats that
20:20:30 <oerjan> obviously that's Fractal Nose Man
20:21:09 <Bike> shachaf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV6dLhepx6w
20:21:19 <oerjan> you may not have heard of him, since he for some reason never gets invited to the other superheroes' parties
20:21:23 <shachaf> oops monqy isn't even in here "what's the point"
20:21:33 <kmc> monqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqy
20:21:55 <oerjan> shachaf's meaning of life, wasted
20:23:25 <shachaf> @tell monqy we love you monqy... / we miss you in school... / do you think i could... help you?
20:25:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: [explanation of channel's purpose] | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
20:25:52 <shachaf> @ask monqy [i mean ie] http://books.google.com/books?id=tdPnQS2WT_sC&lpg=PA48&ots=r1ZFu-z6MH&pg=PA48
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20:38:49 <kmc> are TLBs usually fully associative
20:41:48 -!- augur has joined.
20:42:14 <oerjan> kmc: then they would be too easy.
20:42:23 <kmc> like monoids?
20:42:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:42:40 <oerjan> well i suppose they might not have a unit
20:42:57 <kmc> oh i get it
20:47:22 <Taneb> Is a TLB like a BLT
20:49:58 -!- augur has joined.
20:51:02 <shachaf> kmc: are you going to be a mosh mentor if it gets slots
20:51:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:52:04 <kmc> shachaf: I'm signed up as the backup mentor
20:52:31 <shachaf> Wait, is that different from backup admin?
20:52:36 -!- augur has joined.
20:52:38 <kmc> maybe i'm that
20:52:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:52:44 <kmc> i shuold figure out what i am
20:52:52 -!- sirdancealot has joined.
20:52:53 * shachaf is backup admin for haskell.org
20:53:01 <Bike> do any of us truly know what we are, in the end
20:53:14 <kmc> anyway I expect to spend time helping people, whether or not in any official capacity
20:53:14 * Taneb is very little to do with GSoC, if any
20:53:35 -!- augur has joined.
20:53:41 <kmc> btw if any of you are students and would like to work on Mosh and get paid by google we would be super happy to have you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if google approves our slots which they might not
20:54:10 <pikhq> kmc: Hmm. That might be a good idea.
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20:54:14 <shachaf> (rules out most of the channel??)
20:54:17 <pikhq> I am totally a student, and mosh seems neat.
20:54:27 <Taneb> I'm over 18, but only debatably a student
20:56:13 <shachaf> What's involved in being a mentor, anyway?
20:56:16 -!- augur has joined.
20:56:49 <kmc> pikhq: cool. you can come by #mosh if you have any questions
20:56:56 <Bike> what the hell is mosh again
20:57:04 <kmc> http://mosh.mit.edu/
20:57:09 <Bike> IRC ain't good enough for you?? or something
20:57:12 <Taneb> Isn't it that thing aimed at children with the monsters
20:57:23 <kmc> it's a replacement for (some of) SSH, which stays connected if you move your client between networks
20:57:32 <Bike> Oh, that's kinda cool.
20:57:32 <kmc> also works better on crappy connections
20:57:37 <pikhq> I've started using it recently. It works beautifully.
20:57:39 <kmc> (i've used it on connections where TCP doesn't work /at all/)
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20:57:42 <kmc> also it has predictive local echo
20:57:55 <pikhq> It even makes remote shell over Wifi work better.
20:57:57 <shachaf> it's a replacement for THE INTERNET AS WE KNOW IT
20:57:58 <Bike> Does it use udp...?
20:58:06 <kmc> it uses a custom state-sync protocol over UDP
20:58:07 <Taneb> I shall investigate
20:58:15 <kmc> meaning if packets get dropped, it doesn't necessarily retransmit them as is
20:58:16 <Taneb> It could prove useful in playing Dwarf Fortress
20:58:20 <kmc> it just tries to get you up to the latest state
20:58:29 <pikhq> Yeah, it's quite neat overall.
20:58:29 <shachaf> kmc: you should have a soc project to port mosh to use nacl imo
20:58:31 <Bike> well i probably won't work on that and i'm not competent enough to use ssh regularly but i wish you luck
20:58:52 <pikhq> It also handles the client side of the connection migrating.
20:59:12 <kmc> shachaf: CrOS people were keen for that to happen
20:59:21 <Bike> oh, huh, the approved organizations are being listed tomorrow*
20:59:29 <kmc> keithw got as far as trying out his terminal codes torture test in their JavaScript/CSS terminal emulator
20:59:34 <kmc> and filed like 20 bugs all at once
21:00:15 <kmc> nah we're happy with AES-OCB
21:00:19 <shachaf> "though maybe that one is good too who knows ? ?"
21:00:27 <kmc> keithw doesn't want to add algorithm negotiation b/c it's more complexity and risk
21:00:59 <kmc> i think the choice of OCB was really lucky, everyone hates CBC and GCM now
21:01:17 <kmc> tho........... maybe it's because fewer people are thinking about OCB atm
21:01:27 <shachaf> No negotiation. Just replacing it.
21:01:44 <kmc> but matthew green likes it and he's like a crypto researcher
21:01:59 <Taneb> zzo38, may I ask you two questions?
21:02:30 <shachaf> i heard phillip rogaway likes it too
21:02:33 * oerjan hopes Taneb included that as one of his questions, just in case
21:02:36 <kmc> or... maybe it was a different person
21:02:48 <kmc> shachaf: o rly
21:02:51 <Taneb> oerjan, that is indeed the case
21:03:04 <shachaf> kmc: Did that weblog answer your question yet?
21:03:13 <kmc> wtfcrypto? no
21:03:21 <kmc> they probably decided my question was 'too crazy'
21:03:29 <shachaf> ''what was your quesiton''
21:03:34 <Bike> what was your question.
21:03:42 <kmc> shachaf knos
21:03:47 <oerjan> what was your question,
21:03:57 <Taneb> "Did you chose your IRC nick because you were annoyed at always being first alphabetically?"
21:04:05 <kmc> could god create a cryptosystem so strong that even he could not break it
21:04:31 <oerjan> i think zzo38's nick may predate him joining irc
21:04:34 <Bike> I bet god uses homomorphic encryption.
21:04:53 <Bike> the entire universe is just an encrypted computation of the optimal Starcraft strategy
21:04:55 <Taneb> oerjan, but look at his real name!
21:05:07 <oerjan> Taneb: oh hm good point
21:05:24 <Taneb> ("Taneb" was first used by me in pretty much the worst of situations)
21:05:33 <Lymia> kmc, one-time pad with the key thrown away? :p
21:05:40 <Taneb> (a shared account on a crapy "build a city and conquer your neighbours" web game
21:05:41 <kmc> can god forget stuff tho
21:06:15 <kmc> omniscient vs omnipotent
21:06:23 <kmc> same and yet different? discuss
21:06:43 <shachaf> apparently "omniscient" is pronounced "om ni shnt" or something??????
21:06:53 <Taneb> I'd say incompatible and perhaps incosistent
21:06:54 <shachaf> rather than "omni" "scient (like science)"
21:07:58 <oerjan> > chr.(219-).ord<$>"aaron"
21:08:19 <kmc> brb, going to bie 15 miles
21:08:43 <oerjan> > chr.(219-).ord<$>"zzo"
21:09:54 <oerjan> <kmc> could god create a cryptosystem so strong that even he could not break it <-- is this related to the IP=PSPACE theorem?
21:12:38 <oerjan> i guess that's what you need to convince someone _else_ you've broken it.
21:13:04 <oerjan> also it doesn't really apply if god can affect your rng
21:14:25 <Bike> exercise: design a cryptosystem secure from an omniscient observer
21:14:49 <Taneb> Wouldn't an omniscient observer know the message anyway
21:15:11 <Taneb> so the only way to do that is to not have a message in the first place
21:15:18 <oerjan> very good, Taneb. you get an E on the test.
21:15:30 <oerjan> (you cannot get better because you didn't solve the problem)
21:16:02 <Taneb> Only six more letters and I can spell my name!
21:16:12 <oerjan> or wait not having a message in the first place sounds vaguely like buddhism.
21:16:34 <Bike> christianity is pretty much a buddhism ripoff anyway imo
21:17:04 <Taneb> (didn't christianity come kinda four hundred or so years before buddhism or am I getting mixed up)
21:17:04 <shachaf> imo Bike is a unicycle ripoff
21:17:21 <Taneb> I'm getting mixed up
21:17:23 <oerjan> Taneb: you are getting mixed up.
21:18:36 <oerjan> shachaf: he's really conjoined unicycle twins, and i don't think you should discriminate him like that
21:19:27 <Taneb> I ought to learn to ride it at some point
21:20:39 <zzo38> I changed it to set the interpreter number to 4 when Tandy mode is not set, rather than 6, so that the runes will display correctly (this program uses the Amiga version of the font 3).
21:21:33 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
21:22:02 <Taneb> zzo38, that doesn't answer either of my questions
21:22:28 <zzo38> Taneb: O, sorry. Can you repeat the question which you want answered, please?
21:22:42 <Taneb> First question: may I ask you two questions?
21:23:06 <zzo38> You can ask me whatever you want; I might or might not answer.
21:23:31 <Taneb> Second question: did you choose your nick because you were annoyed at being alphabetically first all the time?
21:24:06 <Taneb> Could you explain the origin of your nick?
21:24:35 <zzo38> I do not actually remember why, but I think it had something to do with a design I was trying to make in school with numbers, but the only ones they had left were 3 and 8.
21:24:40 <shachaf> zzo38: Watch out! That looks like an ordinary question but it's actually a veiled request.
21:25:01 <zzo38> shachaf: I don't care.
21:25:54 <Taneb> What are good resources for learning how to create, eg, Famicom games?
21:25:55 * oerjan didn't remember pink was an irc color
21:27:16 <zzo38> Taneb: Try NESdev wiki; it explains most things about NES/Famicom necessary for emulation or to write a game, including the keyboard and mouse (the mouse was never intended for the Famicom but it works anyways)
21:27:38 <oerjan> ok that was definitely wrong color
21:27:58 <Taneb> zzo38, have you ever attempted to read Homestuck?
21:27:58 <oerjan> ok the 8 is for light i guess
21:28:11 <zzo38> It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta.
21:28:28 <shachaf> `addquote <zzo38> It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta.
21:28:38 <HackEgo> 1013) <zzo38> It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta.
21:29:32 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I evangelise Haskell to Homestucks and Homestuck to Haskellers.
21:29:36 <Taneb> It is the only way
21:29:50 <shachaf> homestuck more like homest......upid
21:30:02 <zzo38> PC color codes use 1 for blue, 2 for green, 4 for red, and 8 for high intensity (only on color monitors; on monochrome, 1 (but not 2 to 7) are underlined)
21:30:10 <shachaf> Taneb: do they ever manage to escape from home
21:30:19 <oerjan> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
21:31:02 <Taneb> It is unlikely that I will create Sgeo
21:31:08 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: you created Sgeo??
21:31:08 <Taneb> He seems pretty already created
21:31:23 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: did you ever consider this a crime against everything
21:31:24 <oerjan> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
21:31:28 <zzo38> But for background colors, 8 means blinking text, instead of high intensity
21:32:17 <oerjan> shachaf: the one above had foregrounds too hth
21:32:28 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, i try to make amends for my past crimes but it's just not enough
21:32:41 <shachaf> oerjan: foregrounds against a black background obviously
21:32:45 <Taneb> shachaf, they did escape from there home but then one of them stuck his arm back in and got stuck
21:32:47 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Goodnight).
21:33:00 <shachaf> Taneb: hey want to hear a good joke
21:33:20 <shachaf> one of them stuck his arm back in home and got stuck
21:33:38 <Bike> and in that moment i swear we were haskell
21:35:42 <oerjan> ^ul (:()~(,01)**~*S:):((0)~^(1)~^(2)~^(3)~^(4)~^(5)~^(6)~^(7)~^(8)~^(9)~^(10)~^(11)~^(12)~^(13)~^(14)~^(15)~^)^
21:35:42 <fungot> 0123456789101112131415
21:40:52 * oerjan realizes the color numbering in his client has nothing discernible to do with rgb
21:41:16 <Bike> doesn't follow a rainbow either
21:41:29 <Taneb> I think IRC colours is a de-facto standard started by mIRC but once again I could be mixed up
21:41:56 <Bike> taneb may not know his religions but by gum he knows the history of shitty protocols
21:42:08 <olsner> I think we've had this discussion about irc colors before
21:42:10 <oerjan> the primaries seem to be 2,3 and 5. maybe it's fibonacci based :P
21:42:57 <oerjan> Bike: is there actually a difference?
21:43:08 <Bike> between religions and shitty protocols?
21:43:28 <oerjan> a religion is pretty much a shitty protocol with god, or similar
21:43:39 <Bike> religions have better pay but flamewars involve being on fire, i guess
21:44:27 <olsner> religions can also involve being on fire
21:47:12 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood).
21:51:21 -!- SirCmpwn has joined.
21:52:21 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
21:52:37 <ais523> shachaf: my client is +c
21:52:47 <ais523> as such, I don't notice the color spam
21:52:49 <shachaf> ais523: Does it disable bold too?
21:52:53 <oerjan> shachaf: i just tested the ANSI color escape, which apparently doesn't work for me (although the logs show the code got through)
21:52:53 <ais523> if it annoys you, I recommend you do the same
21:53:06 <shachaf> OK, that's not the same as Freenode's +c
21:53:29 <ais523> still, can't you patch your client to fix that?
21:53:42 <Bike> «In 2009, Sarah was reported in various media outlets as having "won" a "talking to plants competition" against ten others.»
21:54:27 <oerjan> all the plants voted her the best speaker
21:55:36 <oerjan> i was going to "improve" that joke but the housemate started coughing
21:56:16 <oerjan> which makes my interest in life temporarily turn off.
21:58:11 <oerjan> oh i'm hungry, that makes _everything_ worse. ->
21:59:31 <shachaf> Perhaps I'm the housemate?
22:03:35 -!- btiffin has left.
22:07:22 <ais523> you know if shachaf and oerjan were housemates all this time and neither of them realised
22:07:51 <Taneb> It'd be like me and elliott except so much more amazing
22:08:06 <Taneb> Especially since shachaf and oerjan are established to live in different countries
22:08:28 <Bike> It's like narnia only with dicks
22:09:02 <Taneb> Bike, I can't get that comment to fit the context in any shape, way, or form
22:09:24 -!- augur has joined.
22:09:50 <Bike> I had a dream that I was naked in the freezer at work with a bunch of other people, except I wasn't that cold. I took this as evidence that I'd be fine living in northernly areas.
22:10:37 <Taneb> You have a freezer big enough for a bunch of people to be in at your work?
22:10:52 <Bike> No. It was bigger in the dream
22:11:01 <olsner> Taneb: where else would he keep his coworkers?
22:11:09 <Bike> Rather inefficiently packed in said dream, I might add.
22:11:20 <Taneb> Means you don't have to defrost them when you want one.
22:11:21 <Bike> Just lots of open space for being naked in. Totally cost-ineffective.
22:11:49 <Taneb> I had a dream where I couldn't find the book where I write things I need to watch in
22:11:57 <Bike> Well, I guess the real freezer can have a bunch of people in it at once, but it would be crowded. You'd also be surrounded by dead animals.
22:11:59 <Taneb> But I had something I needed to cross off
22:12:23 <Bike> parts of animals, really.
22:12:30 <Taneb> (which I do, to be fair)
22:12:53 <Bike> Probably not enough to reconstruct whole animals. I mean it's not like we store eyes or something.
22:13:20 <Taneb> The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was enjoyable.
22:13:52 -!- FreeFull has joined.
22:14:04 <Bike> I hear it has tits.
22:14:05 <Jafet> Where they're going, do they need eyes?
22:14:21 <Taneb> Bike, it references but does not actually show.
22:14:30 <Bike> I don't think eyes are all that nutritious to humans, generally.
22:14:30 <Taneb> Except when it does.
22:14:36 <Bike> Taneb: "what a shame"
22:15:27 <Taneb> I think it was a parody of high-school anime
22:15:34 <Taneb> Anyway, I shall now sleep
22:15:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:16:39 <oerjan> `addquote <Bike> It's like narnia only with dicks
22:16:43 <HackEgo> 1014) <Bike> It's like narnia only with dicks
22:17:35 <Bike> Huh, did you know there's such a thing as a vitreous humor transplant? Maybe you could get it fro chickens.
22:19:42 <oerjan> Bike: i'm sure there are plenty of people who'd like to have feline eyes
22:19:43 -!- carado has joined.
22:19:54 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:20:02 <oerjan> (evidence: half of furrydom)
22:20:08 <Bike> Oh you can just get contacts for that.
22:20:10 -!- augur has joined.
22:20:28 <FreeFull> Ok, I definitely need to stop myself from getting highlighted by feline
22:20:35 <oerjan> i'm sure there are plenty of people who would like a more permanent solution
22:20:57 <Bike> well vitreous humor wouldn't do it. you'd need, like, your iris replaced or some shit.
22:21:11 <Jafet> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/ef66/
22:21:40 <Bike> Fiora has those.
22:22:05 <Jafet> http://a.tgcdn.net/images/products/zoom/ef66_brainwave_cat_ears.jpg
22:22:23 <Jafet> Somehow, this does not seem like the intended usage.
22:23:49 <oerjan> Fiora: do they actually work?
22:24:40 <oerjan> i'd suspect you'd want to hide that black thingy better
22:31:26 <oerjan> <kmc> if the token after 'do', 'let', 'of', or 'in' is not an open brace, insert an open brace and remember the starting column of that token
22:32:03 <olsner> that was discovered shortly afterwards
22:32:39 <oerjan> also there are several ghc extensions that add extra keywords to the list. mdo, rec, and now \ case
22:32:50 <oerjan> and probably proc for arrows
22:32:54 <olsner> you should read the logs backwards
22:33:13 <oerjan> olsner: but then my brain might stack overflow!
22:34:06 <olsner> yeah, you should just read the whole log at the same time
22:34:50 <oerjan> but then my buffer-of-things-to-comment-on overflows instead D:
22:38:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:39:38 <oerjan> <kmc> i think there's also a special rule that lets you write 'module Foo where' without then indenting the rest of the file
22:39:59 <oerjan> i think it's just that the first indentation block doesn't start until after that where
22:40:16 <oerjan> so there's no outer block you have to indent it more than
22:40:46 <olsner> there was a couple more lines about that too (but not very conclusive iirc)
22:40:46 -!- carado has joined.
22:40:59 <oerjan> yeah it didn't look conclusive
22:41:20 <oerjan> `run (echo ' module Main where
22:41:22 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
22:41:45 <oerjan> `run (echo ' module Main where'; echo 'main = putStr "It works!"') > Test.hs
22:42:14 <ion> `run printf '%s\n' ' foo' 'bar' 'baz'
22:42:29 <HackEgo> [1 of 1] Compiling Main ( Test.hs, Test.o ) \ Linking Test ...
22:42:44 <ion> `run printf '%s\n' ' foo' 'bar' 'baz' | cat -A
22:42:44 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ Test.o \ wisdom
22:42:49 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Test: not found
22:43:17 <oerjan> olsner: ok so the "module" line itself isn't affected by layout.
22:44:58 <oerjan> `run printf '%s\n' 'foo' ' bar' 'baz'
22:45:31 <ion> `run echo ' foo'
22:45:37 <ion> Huh. What’s up with that?
22:45:41 <oerjan> oh hm there wasn't anything wrong at the beginning
22:45:58 <oerjan> i see the initial space just fine
22:46:12 <ion> I don’t see a “foo” in the output.
22:46:51 <oerjan> ok, maybe it's HackEgo's initial zero space doing it
22:47:05 <oerjan> i have no idea how to produce that in my client
22:47:17 -!- ion_netcat has joined.
22:47:25 <ion> `run echo ' foo'
22:48:06 <HackEgo> 60 72 97 99 107 69 103 111 62 32 8203 32 32 102 111 111
22:48:07 <ion> Interesting. So it is WeeChat that’s broken. I’m running a nightly version. Let my try upgrading to a newer nightly.
22:48:23 <HackEgo> 72 97 99 107 69 103 111 62 32 8203 32 32 102 111 111
22:48:48 <oerjan> oh it actually _does_ get copied if i make sure to include surroundings
22:49:08 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
22:50:28 <oerjan> ion: it could be an old bug given that HackEgo rarely prints things starting with space
22:51:48 <HackEgo> 8192 8193 8195 8196 8197 8198 8199 8200 8201 8202 8203 8204 8205 8206 8207
22:52:24 <fizzie> Whoops, I skipped one.
22:52:29 <Bike> what the heck is a HAIR SPACE
22:52:46 <oerjan> Bike: it's that space you get on your head as you get older hth
22:52:53 <fizzie> It's "thinner than a thin space".
22:53:03 <fizzie> Also "in traditional typography, the thinnest space available".
22:53:08 <fizzie> (According to the "notes" field.)
22:53:34 <fizzie> A thin space is "a fifth of an em (or sometimes a sixth)".
22:53:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:53:58 <ion> Three fifths of a space
22:54:51 <shachaf> Do not use secret data as an array index.
22:54:51 <shachaf> Early plans for NaCl would have allowed exceptions to this rule inside primitives specifically labelled vulnerable, in particular to allow fast crypto_stream_aes128vulnerable, but subsequent research showed that this compromise was unnecessary.
22:54:56 <fizzie> It seems I accidentally also the right-to-left mark and left-to-right mark. (U+200E and U+200F.)
22:55:01 <shachaf> kmc: Any idea what could've been going on there?
22:55:22 <fizzie> (They all look the same in gucharmap.)
22:56:30 <Jafet> That sounds like something djb would say.
22:56:50 <shachaf> Jafet: Everything djb says sounds like something djb would say.
22:56:55 <Jafet> Actually, it sounds like something he did say.
22:57:14 <Jafet> Well, djb is a big AXR fanboy.
22:57:48 <Jafet> @google aes cache timing site:cr.yp.to
22:57:52 <lambdabot> http://cr.yp.to/antiforgery/cachetiming-20050414.pdf
22:57:52 <lambdabot> Title: Cache-timing attacks on AES
22:58:26 <Jafet> @google salsa20 AXR
22:58:29 <lambdabot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_37OduVkzSE
22:58:41 <Jafet> Maybe it's called ARX.
22:59:38 <shachaf> video matched expectations
23:05:54 -!- ion_netcat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:06:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:08:50 -!- constant has changed nick to function.
23:09:24 <lambdabot> alexbagel says: i find that my first 26 variables are always easy to name. after that it becomes a bit harder.
23:09:48 <shachaf> This is why mathematicians should learn their Greek.
23:10:52 <Bike> ΑA, very helpful
23:12:38 <oerjan> x,y,z,x',y',z',x'',y'',z'', i don't see the problem.
23:12:58 <shachaf> In fact no reason to use the x.
23:13:33 <Bike> just use numbers as letters
23:13:56 <Bike> solve: 0² + 401 + 1² = 22
23:14:04 <Jafet> > var <$> iterate (++"'") "x"
23:14:07 <lambdabot> [x,x',x'',x''',x'''',x''''',x'''''',x''''''',x'''''''',x''''''''',x''''''''...
23:14:21 <shachaf> > var <$> iterate ('\'':) ""
23:14:24 <lambdabot> [,','',''','''',''''','''''',''''''','''''''',''''''''','''''''''',''''''''...
23:14:29 <olsner> could've been funny in a different way if he'd said 24 letters instead
23:16:04 <Bike> digammas, digammas everywhere
23:16:59 <oerjan> <kmc> "shadow chancellor" sounds like a much cooler office than it actually is <-- does he at least have a black cape?
23:17:35 <Fiora> oerjan: yeah, they do work, though they're more reactive to emotional state/excitement levels/etc than they are controllable
23:17:37 <shachaf> PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: When you /last and your irssi window gets cluttered with /last noise, you can use /last -cl to get rid of it
23:17:40 <Fiora> you could probably control them to some extent with practice
23:17:48 <shachaf> I told elliott before and he was surprised. So now I'm telling y'all.
23:17:55 <Jafet> PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: irssi sucks.
23:18:11 <Bike> is /last short for lastlog
23:18:12 <Jafet> Fiora: that sounds like missing the point
23:18:25 <Bike> oh it is. well it's nice to abbreviate -clear
23:18:38 <Bike> Jafet: on the contrary, it indicates eternal mental fortitude over the cat ears
23:19:00 <Fiora> but basically they totally work and are really cute and etc
23:19:24 <Fiora> (other catches: the little box is kind of heavy, not horribly so but mostly due to batteries. the headpiece is really only hide-able if you have bangs, I do but many people don't)
23:19:38 <oerjan> shachaf: huh, is there something similar that can clear /whois or /ban results?
23:20:16 <shachaf> oerjan: I was asking elliott about clearing /ban results when I discovered he didn't know this.
23:20:23 <shachaf> So if you find out, let me know!
23:22:53 <Fiora> also! there's like 3rd party covers for the ears that change their color
23:22:57 <Fiora> I have a pair that makes them purple
23:23:39 <Jafet> Are there covers that can change color?
23:24:26 <Fiora> um, I don't think so
23:24:28 <shachaf> is that how leopards work?
23:24:43 <Fiora> part of me also wants to like, make a pair of covers that look like troll horns
23:24:57 <shachaf> trolls don't have horns........
23:25:17 <oerjan> hm what animals change color according to emotion rather than just camouflage?
23:25:37 <Fiora> there's the ones that change color to communicate, right?
23:25:58 <elliott> chameleons change colour according to emotion sometimes i think
23:26:10 <shachaf> like when their emotion is "i want to hide now"
23:31:44 <Bike> hiding isn't an emotion fuckass
23:31:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: (i'm pretty sure octopi is a valid plural...)
23:32:43 <olsner> Bike: hiding is an action .. but feeling hidy would be an emotion
23:32:49 <Bike> if you people start arguing about latin declensions so help me i will threaten you
23:33:09 <olsner> I think it's supposed to be greek, hth
23:33:23 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: well octopodes seems equally pretentious
23:33:35 <shachaf> imo let's argue about hebrew declensions
23:33:41 <elliott> (consider e.g. "forum", english plural "forums" not "fora")
23:33:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i already started hth
23:33:59 <Bike> shachaf: how you change nouns to fit... stuff. like gender marking and pluralization and stuff.
23:34:04 <olsner> shachaf: that's when you change the vowels but keep the consonants, right?
23:34:17 <Bike> Also I don't know shit about Hebrew.
23:34:26 <Bike> Is it true that you have singular, plural, and also dual?
23:34:30 <Bike> Maybe dual is obsolete.
23:34:44 <olsner> category theorists certainly use the dual
23:34:52 <Bike> I said shut up! *points*
23:34:59 <shachaf> Bike: fun fact: sometimes if you want to put the definite article on something you put it on every one of the adjectives but not on the noun itself
23:35:05 <shachaf> but sometimes you also put it on the noun
23:35:15 <shachaf> okay i'm being unfair here??
23:35:31 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1b8wzp/my_shot_at_cont/c99jt8u
23:35:33 <Bike> shachaf: genius
23:35:54 <Bike> "infinite type errors"
23:36:41 <shachaf> imo let's throw Sgeo down a delimited continuation
23:36:42 <Sgeo> > (\x -> x x) id
23:36:44 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> a0
23:37:45 <shachaf> Bike: oh and hebrew has a word for marking a direct object, which is good
23:37:49 <Bike> why not just fix
23:37:57 <shachaf> what other language has a whole word reserved for that purpose
23:38:15 <Bike> shachaf: imagining hebrewers snickering every time an englisher uses "whom"
23:38:29 <elliott> i still don't know when to use whom
23:38:29 <olsner> what's a direct object?
23:38:42 <Bike> elliott: When you're making fun of prescriptivists.
23:38:51 <Bike> olsner: "I hit him", him is the direct object.
23:38:53 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, the difference is the same as that between 'he' and 'him'
23:39:01 <Bike> an indirect object is like the store in "I ran to the store"
23:39:10 <shachaf> "I ate a cat" has no direct object, right?
23:39:21 <Bike> I'm pretty sure the cat is still a direct object.
23:39:23 <Fiora> "a cat" is the direct object there
23:39:51 <shachaf> You wouldn't use the word there.
23:40:01 <shachaf> Maybe it's a weird article thing. Hebrew has only a definite article.
23:40:18 <Fiora> and um why are you eating cats
23:40:39 <shachaf> Fiora: because they're delicious
23:41:08 <elliott> them hebrews and their cat-eating
23:41:09 <shachaf> alt. for the same reason i eat cows
23:41:14 <Bike> I mean, the direct object can be something complicated. Like "something complicated" perhaps
23:41:32 <Bike> or would it be "be something complicated". fucking auxilaries.
23:41:38 <doesthiswork> because there are so many different ways you have to get familiar with
23:42:30 <Bike> Maybe I should get a copy of Syntactic Structures. Then whenever anybody asks me a grammar question I don't care about I'll just show them the CSG for English in the appendix.
23:42:42 <Bike> WHERE'S YOUR LANGUAGE ORGAN NOW MOTHERFUCKER
23:42:42 <oerjan> Bike: i think "be" isn't considered to take an object, if that's what you mean.
23:43:00 <Bike> it's not, i was wondering if the verb was "can" or "can be"
23:44:03 <Bike> You be a fuckin' wanker.
23:44:25 <shachaf> Generally, Hebrew marks every noun in a sentence with some sort of preposition, with the exception of subjects and semantically indefinite direct objects. Unlike English, indirect objects require prepositions (as in "He gave me the ball"), and semantically definite direct objects are introduced by the preposition את /et/.
23:44:39 <shachaf> OK I WAS TALKING ABOUT SEMANTICALLY DEFINITE DIRECT OBJECTS
23:44:44 <shachaf> SORRY FOR BEING TOO FANCY FOR YOU
23:44:48 <Bike> I have no idea what that means. Awesome.
23:45:05 <oerjan> <Bike> an indirect object is like the store in "I ran to the store" <-- no "to the store" is a prepositional something. it's like him in "I gave him an apple"
23:45:24 -!- Bike has set topic: [semantically definite explanation of channel's purpose] | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
23:46:20 <shachaf> Bike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hebrew_grammar#Prepositions
23:46:28 <oerjan> shachaf: hungarian doesn't have a word, but it has a _verb inflection_ for definite direct objects.
23:46:28 <FreeFull> What can you tell me about Polish?
23:47:06 <Bike> "literally I see /et/ the-book" literal translations are so easy
23:48:42 <olsner> I wonder why this making of 2001 thingy needs to thank the High Commission of Sri Lanka
23:49:43 <Fiora> Clarke lived there, so that's probably related?
23:50:24 <Fiora> huh. arthur c. clarke was gay. did not know that
23:50:34 <oerjan> "Olvastak egy könyvet." - i read a book. "Olvastam a könyvet." - i read the book. (from google translate, except for correcting first -m to -k because google doesn't understand the grammar i'm trying to demonstrate.)
23:50:35 <olsner> I guess so... looks like this high commission thingy is like their embassy
23:51:08 <Bike> maybe Clarke used to be a Tiger.
23:51:14 <Bike> his younger, wild days
23:51:17 <Fiora> " Journalists who enquired of Clarke whether he was gay were told, "No, merely mildly cheerful.""
23:51:23 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot