00:00:01 <Bike> a multiplier of what?
00:00:32 <Bike> are you assuming every typeface is monospace
00:00:57 <Bike> anyway i think that definition of em is kind of outdated nowadays
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00:02:20 <zzo38> kmc: {{User:Zzo38/Userboxes/program famicom}} and {{User:Zzo38/Userboxes/text adventure game}}
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00:02:46 <zzo38> Oops! There is prefer DVD over VHS, and VHS over DVD, and Blu-ray over DVD, but they forgot preferring DVD over Blu-ray.
00:03:40 <Sgeo> Bike, I'm assuming that there's no reason for sizes to be an actual amount
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00:12:13 <kmc> Sgeo: it could override another font-size rule on the same element
00:13:11 <kmc> Sgeo: it is a multiplier of the font size. when you say "12 pt font", that means 1 em = 12 pt, where a pt is 1/72 of an inch
00:14:53 <kmc> i believe, but i'm not sure, that font-size: 2em; and font-size: 200%; have the same effect
00:15:11 <kmc> actually http://kyleschaeffer.com/user-experience/css-font-size-em-vs-px-vs-pt-vs/ says that they behave differently if the user activates the browser's font resizing feature
00:15:33 <kmc> anyway CSS has both % and em because in other contexts they mean something quite different
00:16:10 <kmc> "width: 50%" means '50% of the parent's size', "width: 0.5em" means '50% of a single em in the parent's font'
00:16:54 <kmc> mostly though http://img.pandawhale.com/post-18529-Yes-mlkshk-2jkG.gif
00:17:23 <Lumpio-> People who made that gif probably aren't very good at CSS.
00:17:24 <Bike> that window grubbing is kind of impressive
00:17:52 <kmc> Lumpio-: lol
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00:21:03 <kmc> my girlfriend has perfected a procedure for turning free copies of the Wall Street Journal into food
00:21:10 <kmc> by growing mushrooms on them
00:21:37 <kmc> the mushrooms are tasty and do not appear to have poisoned me or shifted my political views to the right
00:22:46 <Phantom__Hoover> i also suspect it would take some kind of massive rocket to shift your political views to the right
00:25:28 <kmc> what if i'm robbed by immigrants at knifepoint
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00:35:17 <pikhq> What if political views are modular?
00:36:24 <Sgeo> Is htmldog.com a good site?
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00:37:16 <Sgeo> cursive on my machine isn't very cursive lol
00:44:29 <Sgeo> You might also stumble across similar proprietary properties, such as -webkit-border-radius and -moz-border-radius which are for older, barely-used versions of Safari and Firefox respectively. Our carefully worded professional advice? Screw em.
00:44:34 <Sgeo> ^^from htmldog
00:47:00 <zzo38> Well, you might use the -moz- properties if you are writing a XUL application, rather than a webpage.
00:48:47 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/13b0bd5792b912e71aafc9b201ac0dba/tumblr_mllgbzm7xu1snfhwio1_1280.jpg
00:48:54 <Bike> people like jerkcity right
00:51:49 <Bike> oh it's "jerkcity hd" http://jerkcityhd.tumblr.com/
00:52:12 <kmc> this is a ray of sunshine in my world
00:52:16 <Sgeo> kmc likes jerkcity. don't know about anyone else
00:52:39 <mnoqy> jerkcity is brilliant. who wouldn't like it
00:53:26 <kmc> http://media.tumblr.com/f80afb234b91bd5d8bcaa8e2c0dccf17/tumblr_inline_mlr42hjCjn1qzv9v0.jpg
00:54:27 <Bike> woodring's a cool guy, for someone who's psychotic
00:55:04 <Bike> well he based a lot of his comic on hallucinations
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00:58:32 <Sgeo> If you have hallucinations, but can reliably determine whether something is a hallucination or not, and you don't mind the hallucinations, are you 'psychotic'?
00:58:53 <Sgeo> ...actually, I'm worse than that, come to think of it.
00:59:14 <Sgeo> I regularly have hallucinations where I can't determine that it's a hallucination during the hallucination. I do reliably work it out afterwards though.
00:59:25 <kmc> what kind of hallucinations Sgeo?
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00:59:48 <Bike> 'psychosis' is a pretty general term.
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01:00:58 <Sgeo> Full sensory hallucinations. Strong enough that any real sensory input is barely noticable.
01:02:24 <Bike> this had better not be a sarcastic reference to dreaming
01:02:24 <Bike> if it's not: probably should see a doctor
01:03:27 * Sgeo thought it was obvious enough that you wouldn't need to make conditional statements like that
01:03:57 <Sgeo> Although, hmm, some sensory input is strong enough to get through, usually disrupting the hallucination.
01:04:05 <Bike> so you mean they're not?
01:04:27 <Sgeo> I mean that yes, I was referring to dreaming.
01:04:57 <Bike> psychosis requires being awake.
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01:06:59 <Bike> i assumed you weren't being difficult
01:08:49 <kmc> itt communicating poorly and then acting smug when misunderstood
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01:09:23 <Bike> kmc is that An XKCD Reference
01:09:32 <kmc> from Before It Was Cool
01:10:16 <kmc> from when it gently poked fun at nerd tropes instead of just generating and copying them
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01:13:51 <Sgeo> It just strikes me that harmless hallucinations that everyone has are considered 'normal', while if someone had additional odd but harmless hallucinations, that would be abnormal
01:14:14 <Bike> it's quite common for mentally healthy people to have auditory hallucinations
01:14:33 <Bike> there is a thing called the Hearing Voices Movement that involves such people (as well as unhealthy people who also hear voices)
01:15:35 <ais523> Bike: I remember reading that autism was often misdiagnosed as schizophrenia due to insufficiently pedantic questions
01:15:49 <ais523> people asking questions like "do you hear voices", which were then interpreted literally
01:16:00 <ais523> "yes, when people talk nearby, I can hear their voice…"
01:16:39 <Bike> diagnosing mental illness is hard
01:17:25 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alogia#Example
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01:54:11 <pikhq> Mental illnesses are tricky.
01:55:01 <pikhq> Also, I do not recall having a dream ever, so *suck it*.
01:55:05 <pikhq> I'm saner than all y'all.
01:55:37 <Bike> I had a dream about being delusional this morning, what does that make me
01:56:58 <kmc> yesterday i woke up sucking on a lemon
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01:58:38 <Phantom__Hoover> i've lately started having fits of realising when i'm going to sleep that my thoughts make no fucking sense
01:59:03 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unsex%27d_Females also you all need to help me understand the eighteenth century because what
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02:00:01 <Bike> as in arthur conan?
02:03:06 <Sgeo> Phantom__Hoover, try lucid dreaming?
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02:15:12 <Koen_> anyone here participating in the ludum dare?
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02:29:32 <zzo38> At first when I put "This user knows the difference between scientific astronomy and superstitious astrology." on my userpage I thought I know the difference but actually I didn't. Now I do.
02:30:01 <Bike> how do you know you know?
02:30:48 <zzo38> I don't. I won't necessarily know anything 100% certain.
02:30:58 <zzo38> Since everyone makes mistakes too, even scientists.
02:44:19 <Sgeo> There's an Android app for Robozzle!
02:44:58 <Sgeo> kmc, Bike, shachaf, you weren't here for the Robozzle addiction I think, you should play
02:45:21 <Sgeo> http://robozzle.com/
02:45:30 <shachaf> My server went down for mysterious reasons.
02:45:38 <shachaf> I have no idea what IRC channels I used to be in.
02:46:52 <shachaf> RoboZZle requires Silverlight
02:47:22 <Bike> there's a js version
02:47:23 <zzo38> Write a clone of the software in other programming languages; I think I have done once in QBASIC
02:47:49 <Sgeo> Bike, because you weren't here when Robozzle
02:48:02 <Sgeo> `pastelogs robozzle
02:48:04 <shachaf> I should get a bag, I guess.
02:48:14 <kmc> bag of holding
02:48:22 <zzo38> It depends what you want to store in it.
02:48:40 <shachaf> kmc wins, with zzo38 in second place
02:48:45 <shachaf> I think Sgeo is just trying to trick me.
02:48:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.410
02:53:01 <shachaf> kmc: have you figured out your excuse for moving to SF yet
02:53:12 <kmc> my excuse is that my friends are there and also you can buy weed at the corner store
02:53:28 <shachaf> you can also get it delivered to you online i hear
02:53:43 <Bike> or by delivery drone
02:53:56 <kmc> yes you can use cryptocurrency to buy chinese synthetic hallucinogens through the onion router
02:54:02 <kmc> because the future is a cyberpunk novel
02:54:38 <shachaf> no i mean a local san francisco thing
02:56:05 <kmc> can i get large prime numbers delivered to me online
02:56:36 <Jafet> Cyberpunk has to have buying synthetic drugs with anonymous cryptocurrency IN SPACE kmc
02:56:54 <shachaf> large prime numbers are very rare [compared to most large numbers]
02:57:49 <Bike> how rare is your average large number
02:58:13 <Jafet> I hear most numbers are large numbers.
02:58:46 <shachaf> I hear the average number is 0.
03:00:17 <Sgeo> I just realized... now that I have money, I could buy an AW citizenship
03:01:26 <Sgeo> Or a Worlds.com VP... but that would be unethical probably
03:01:40 <kmc> why? also what?
03:01:57 <Sgeo> Worlds.com is a patent troll
03:02:00 <pikhq> kmc: ActiveWorlds. Think SecondLife but nineties.
03:02:36 <Sgeo> It gets graphical updates sometimes.... kind of...
03:02:38 <shachaf> When I think SecondLife-but-nineties, I think SecondLife.
03:02:40 <Sgeo> Still using RenderWare
03:02:43 <shachaf> Also "nineties" means "last decade".
03:02:52 <shachaf> And it's going to keep meaning that.
03:03:12 <shachaf> Do I have to line my words up again?
03:03:19 <kmc> remember when George Bush invaded Iraq in the nineties?
03:04:28 <Jafet> Remember when we partied like it was 1997
03:04:44 <shachaf> I think we did that in 1997, mostly.
03:07:43 <Jafet> Use shorter sentences
03:12:25 <Sgeo> kmc, have a wiki page about a game in ActiveWorlds that I loved
03:12:25 <Sgeo> http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=Mutation
03:14:11 <Jafet> You shouldn't neglect
03:14:12 <Jafet> polysyllabic measures
03:14:12 <Jafet> in your lines either.
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03:16:01 <Jafet> “Active Worlds Inc. supplies "White Label Solutions" to corporate clients and is able to deliver customized, turn-key 3D Universes complete with built-in tailored citizen registration systems and sales/marketing data-mining capabilities.”
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03:17:29 <Sgeo> On the one hand, AW's update process is annoying, on the other, it's better than it used to be
03:18:12 <Sgeo> Used to prompt that it needs to be updated. New version starts, still not up to date, prompt again
03:18:25 <Sgeo> Now it only prompts the first time
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05:29:28 <kmc> the magic equation behind RSA
05:31:42 <shachaf> well, phi - 1. the other phi
05:33:51 <Bike> phi, the fuckiest number
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06:23:01 <kmc> At the instant the Omega Point is reached, life will have gained control of all matter and forces not only in a single universe, but in all universes whose existence is logically possible; life will have spread into all spatial regions in all universes which could logically exist, and will have stored an infinite amount of information, including all bits of knowledge which it is logically possible to know.
06:23:53 <Bike> i was so pissed when they even mentioned that shit on some science TV show
06:26:05 <Bike> tipler's fucked and de chardin's a teleological fuck and fuck
06:28:56 <mnoqy> looks p.fucked, yeah
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06:52:46 -!- kmc has set topic: KEYCAP PICTURE INSERT MODE | Soap with a prize inside | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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07:07:23 <kmc> gamma goblins (part 2)
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07:18:33 <btiffin> single character read interpret programming tool (toy), script. BF would be a script. The mother BFing script.
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07:41:48 <kmc> there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in
07:44:39 <Jafet> Only the cracked see the light
07:46:29 <shachaf> a crack you can't see, and when the wind blows through it, it makes no sound...
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08:52:28 <Sgeo> http://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2011/03/other-reason-to-beware-of.html
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09:41:03 <ThatOtherPerson> It interesting how when the fire alarm goes off we all just ignore it.
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09:52:22 <Jafet> Interesting indeed.
09:56:45 <shachaf> Jafet: Any puns for us today?
10:01:57 <Jafet> Perhaps you can find one at http://heasarc.nasa.gov/docs/xte/learning_center/discover_0606.html
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14:17:05 <ThatOtherPerson> Really? He actually uses the name "Taneb" at school and such?
14:22:49 <ThatOtherPerson> Oh Nathan who is really Taneb, where is thy current location? What coordinates art thou currently located at? When is thy estimated time of arrival to the nearest IRC client?
14:36:00 <Jafet> Heretofore doth ye antiquarian pretenſions make airs
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14:51:35 <kmc> hm TIL this is a valid C declaration: int (*x)[10];
14:52:06 <elliott> is that just an array of ten pointers to ints, or
14:52:13 <elliott> or... a pointer to a pointer to ints?
14:54:15 <olsner> a pointer to an array, i.e. just a pointer really
14:55:54 <kmc> yeah it's a pointer to an array
14:57:36 <Vorpal> [3633262.162782] [BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=b8:27:eb:3e:2e:5c:58:98:35:41:33:0e:08:00:45:00:00:4a:7d:06:00:00:6d:11:ca:00 SRC=85.181.239.22 DST=192.168.1.40 LEN=74 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=109 ID=32006 PROTO=UDP SPT=51703 DPT=6802 LEN=54
14:57:36 <Vorpal> [3633834.476985] [BLO\x19
14:57:36 <Vorpal> [3634184.787933] [BLOCK] IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=b8:27:eb:3e:2e:5c:)J] 8:35:41:33:0e:08:00:45:00:00:4a:72:4b:00:00:27:11:7d:9b SRC=61.58.164.178 DST=192.168.1.40 LEN=74 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=39 ID=29259 PROTO=UDP SPT=11388 DPT=6802 LEN=54
14:57:40 <Vorpal> Hm that does NOT look good
14:57:46 <Vorpal> look at those weird chars in dmesg
14:57:49 <Vorpal> what the hell is going on
14:58:10 <kmc> probably not though
14:58:20 <kmc> dmesg is read from a ring buffer
14:58:32 <Vorpal> kmc, doubtful, anyway the machine is acting as a firewall, so I do expect a lot of iptables messages.
14:58:43 <kmc> so I guess it overwrote part of an old message
14:58:51 <kmc> but i don't know why weird bytes
14:59:02 <Vorpal> kmc, seems strange it would be the last three lines of dmesg too
14:59:05 <kmc> if you can afford to take the machine down, you could memtest it
15:00:02 <kmc> there might be a similar tool for ARM but it would have to deal with the bajillion different ARM platforms
15:00:21 <kmc> perhaps the Linux kernel itself can run a test
15:00:21 <Vorpal> kmc, also it is a PITA to check what happened, since it is headless. Would need to locate that HDMI->DVI cable and so on
15:00:43 <elliott> i blame the cosmic microwaves
15:00:58 <kmc> anyway arrays aren't 'just pointers really'; they decay to pointers in certain contexts, but act differently in others
15:01:13 <kmc> if you have int (*x)[10]; int **y; then I can think of at least 2 significant differences
15:01:30 <Vorpal> elliott, possibly, but doubtful
15:01:33 <kmc> one is that sizeof(*x) != sizeof(*y)
15:02:09 <kmc> the other is that *x == &(*x) but *y != &(*y)
15:02:19 <elliott> kmc: well I didn't realise you could even have a pointer to an array
15:02:22 <elliott> which is why I thought it might decay
15:02:44 <kmc> yeah me either, or anyway I didn't know the syntax for it until just now
15:02:49 <kmc> by reading http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html
15:02:52 <kmc> which is an interesting article
15:06:22 <Vorpal> Btw, function pointer syntax: WHY
15:06:43 <fizzie> You also can't point x and y at the same kind of things, and (char*)(x+1) - (char*)x != (char*)(y+1) - (char*)y.
15:06:48 <Vorpal> Function pointers are even worse in C++ (like most stuff)
15:08:04 <Vorpal> kmc, so int (*x)[10]; is specifically an array of length 10? Hm
15:08:11 <kmc> it's a pointer to an array of length 10
15:08:29 <Vorpal> will the compiler warn on (*x)[11] then?
15:08:38 <kmc> how do you mean?
15:09:01 <Vorpal> I mean when accessing element 11 of the length 10 array
15:09:01 <fizzie> It will certainly warn if you try to point it at an int[11].
15:09:11 <Vorpal> which I presume you do by that syntax?
15:09:19 <Vorpal> Or does x[11] work directly
15:09:23 <kmc> 'warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type [enabled by default]'
15:09:23 <Vorpal> Why does declaring the length there matter then?
15:09:41 <fizzie> Vorpal: Because x++ will advance it by ten ints.
15:10:03 <kmc> and sizeof will factor in the array size
15:10:09 <kmc> x = malloc(sizeof(*x));
15:10:22 <fizzie> If you have an array of array of 10 ints, you need an int (*)[10] to point to one "row".
15:10:24 <Vorpal> You could work on RGB data really easily with this
15:10:45 <Vorpal> (3 or 4, not 10 then obviously)
15:11:03 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/hJaD -- from my candide backscroll.
15:11:13 <fizzie> Someone was asking about a very similar thing on ##c recently.
15:11:25 <kmc> Vorpal: the syntax for declaring function pointers is meant to mimic the syntax for using them (as with other declarations in C)
15:11:29 <kmc> it's definitely bad though
15:11:37 <kmc> and i think declaration-follows-use is a bad rule
15:11:49 <fizzie> It's not *that* bad until you have a function that returns a pointer to a function.
15:12:17 <kmc> void *call_cc(void *(*)(void (*)(void *) __attribute__((noreturn))));
15:12:17 <fizzie> The argument types of the returned function pointer end up very far from where you'd normally expect a return type to be.
15:12:21 <olsner> you can make it arbitrarily bad
15:12:49 <kmc> declare call_cc as function (pointer to function (pointer to function (pointer to void) returning void) returning pointer to void) returning pointer to void
15:13:00 <Vorpal> fizzie, I never even tried that without typedefs...
15:13:13 <Vorpal> elliott, worse than C++?
15:13:48 <elliott> well at least C++ has things
15:13:48 <olsner> even if you can write or read types like that, you're really better off pretending you can't
15:13:50 <fizzie> Vorpal: int (*foo(int))(char); is a function that takes an int, and returns a pointer which takes a char and returns an int.
15:14:14 <fizzie> The return type -- int (*)(char) -- gets split up pretty badly there.
15:14:47 <kmc> yeah typedefs are called for
15:15:06 <kmc> btw why does C have typedefs and not just use macros for that purpose?
15:15:10 <Vorpal> Also it all gets worse in C++ as usual. Pointers to member functions and so on.
15:16:06 <Vorpal> How does a pointer to a virtual member function even work? What if there is virtual diamond inheritance mixed into it?
15:16:08 <fizzie> kmc: You couldn't (easily) use a macro for that returns-a-pointer-to-a-function, since you can't form "pointer to T" just by appending a *, always; but you can if T is a typedef.
15:16:52 <fizzie> va_arg I think requires that the type is specified in such a way that you can turn it into a pointer like that.
15:17:17 <fizzie> Vorpal: There's a fascinating article about the implementation of pointers to member functions when it comes to virtual functions.
15:17:39 <fizzie> Vorpal: I seem to recall (on some implementation) it involving 4-, 8-, 12- and maybe even 16-byte pointers.
15:17:45 <fizzie> Vorpal: I'll see if I can re-find it.
15:18:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, 16 bytes on a 64 or 32-bit system?
15:18:30 <Vorpal> it would be utterly silly on a 32-bit system, not quite as bad (relatively speaking) on a 64-bit system
15:18:57 <fizzie> Vorpal: It might have been http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/7150/Member-Function-Pointers-and-the-Fastest-Possible or something linking to it / linked from it. At least that one mentions the different sizes.
15:19:09 <fizzie> "Most bizarrely, in Visual C++, a member function pointer might be 4, 8, 12, or 16 bytes long, depending on the nature of the class it's associated with, and depending on what compiler settings are used!"
15:19:25 <fizzie> There's a table of them.
15:19:34 <kmc> one (GCC) trick i learned from ksplice is to use typeof like so:
15:19:34 <kmc> extern const typeof(int (*)(void)) ksplice_call_pre_apply[]
15:19:55 <FireFly> C's syntax is pretty weird sometimes
15:20:07 <FireFly> `int typedef (*bar)(int);` is also nice
15:20:13 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: int: not found
15:20:22 <kmc> instead of, uh, extern const int (*ksplice_call_pre_apply[])(void) ?
15:20:39 <kmc> typeof makes the function pointer type into something that can be composed in a syntactically normal way
15:21:03 <kmc> also people might be amused by the 'templated data structure library' here: https://github.com/CentOS/ksplice/blob/master/objcommon.h
15:21:03 <fizzie> Yeah, in that it's kind of like an anonymous typedef. :p
15:22:30 <fizzie> "Current versions of the GNU compiler use a strange and tricky optimization. It observes that, for virtual inheritance, you have to look up the vtable in order to get the voffset required to calculate the this pointer. While you're doing that, you might as well store the function pointer in the vtable. By doing this, they combine the m_func_address and m_vtable_index fields into one, and they ...
15:22:37 <fizzie> ... distinguish between them by ensuring that function pointers always point to even addresses but vtable indices are always odd --"
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15:34:26 <Fiora> that sounds like... that sounds like sbcl's tagging, almost
15:34:37 <Fiora> or for that matter the ARM thing with thumb function calls
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15:44:19 <Koen_> hey, why isn't Robozzle Joust a thing yet
15:45:44 <Vorpal> <FireFly> `int typedef (*bar)(int);` is also nice <-- that does something?
15:45:58 <Vorpal> typedef in the middle? What does that mean
15:48:25 <kmc> Fiora: heh, yeah
15:49:16 <kmc> pointer tagging comes up a lot
15:49:28 <kmc> if you give programmers some unused bits, we will find a way to use them
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15:50:13 <kmc> i find it really amusing that the whole 'canonical address' thing on AMD64 exists explicitly to prevent people from using 'unused' address bits that may become used later
15:50:37 <kmc> it's kind of too bad really
15:52:03 <Fiora> kmc: that reminds me of that thing on win32 I remember reading
15:52:21 <kmc> i think maybe they should have let the OS disable those checks; some platforms don't care about binary compatibility
15:52:30 <Fiora> that microsoft couldn't enable /LARGEADDRESSAWARE by default because many windows programs would use the top address bit for something, because Windows guaranteed the kernel reserved the top 2GB
15:52:34 <Fiora> (at the time, at least)
15:52:49 <nooodl_> hey does anyone here have any Go experience
15:52:50 <Fiora> so 32-bit programs are still limited to 2GB address space by default, even on 64-bit
15:53:40 <kmc> i wonder if there are Linux/i386 programs that do similar things
15:53:48 <kmc> they would break running as compat processes on amd64
15:53:52 <Vorpal> Fiora, what about the /3GB switch though?
15:54:17 <Vorpal> Fiora, it is a boot.ini option that switches the split to 1 GB for the kernel, 3 for the app
15:54:20 <Fiora> ohhhh. I see. that's the parameter required on 32-bit to make the OS fit itself in 1GB, and leave 3GB for the app
15:54:39 <Fiora> I think if I rmeember right on x86_32 to make large address aware work, you need both the app compiled with /LARGEADDRESSAWARE *and* the /3GB startup flag
15:54:58 <Fiora> but on 64-bit it's just largeaddressaware, I think. since the kernel has all the address space ver
15:55:06 <Vorpal> Fiora, the guys at work who are still on 32-bit XP use it to be able to use incremental linking in Visual Studio. Kind of funny really.
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15:55:38 <Vorpal> (yeah, the ilk file gets THAT big, boost is scary)
15:56:15 <Fiora> kmc: did linux always enforce the 2/2 split before or something, like windows did?
15:56:26 <Fiora> I'd imagine on linux you probably couldn't have relied on that as much but I wouldn't know (?)
15:56:37 <kmc> the address model is a compile time kernel config parameter
15:56:40 <kmc> it's usually 3GB / 1GB
15:56:48 <kmc> people shouldn't have relied on it, but they might have
15:57:01 <kmc> actually the kernel itself uses the top page or so of addresses for non-pointer meanings too
15:57:24 <kmc> functions that normally return a pointer will return ERR_PTR(-ENOMEM) or whatever on errors
15:57:46 <Vorpal> The concept of the kernel having memory pages in the application address space is kind of silly really. It is an artifact of the architecture though
15:57:51 <Fiora> oh, so that's just like doing (void*)(-err)
15:57:57 <kmc> Fiora: yeah I think so
15:58:12 <kmc> Vorpal: yeah, it's hard to get good performance on x86 without it (except on some very recent chips?)
15:58:16 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1d7g28/hacking_v8_yield_and_asyncawait_in_nodejs/
15:58:28 <Vorpal> kmc, oh? How did they fix that?
15:58:36 <Sgeo> This sort of thing, if it gets standardized and into node.js, may make me actually want to try node.js
15:58:51 <Fiora> I think they added a PCID system?
15:59:06 <olsner> IIRC S/370 allows using 16 or so address spaces per process
15:59:13 <Vorpal> Sgeo, why link reddit rather than the original source? That just means an extra click for me
15:59:21 <kmc> yeah, there's something like a TLB tag
15:59:25 <Fiora> "Another long overdue improvement to the page tables is the Processor Context ID (PCID). The PCID is a field in each TLB entry that associates a given page to a process. Previously, Intel’s TLB could only contain entries from a single process and whenever the CR3 register was written (e.g. a context switch), the TLB was flushed.
15:59:30 <Fiora> The PCID lets pages from different processes safely inhabit the TLB together, so that CR3 writes no longer flush the TLB. Whenever a process tries to access a page in memory, the PCID is checked to determine whether the page is actually mapped into the process’ address space;
15:59:35 <Fiora> if the PCID does not match then a TLB miss occurred. This is very much analogous to Intel’s VPID, which enables the TLB to contain pages from different virtual machines and avoid TLB flushes during VM transitions."
15:59:39 <Fiora> (sorry for the spam)
15:59:48 <Sgeo> Because there are useful links in the Reddit thread too
16:00:02 <fizzie> My Scheme thing I wrote (I think it was maybe for some course?) used the whole low byte of 64-bit values as tag bits; that way (on x86-64) you can work easily on the tags just by looking at al/bl/..., and it's a simple matter of a sign-extending shift of 8 bits to turn it back to a pointer. (Of course it'll fail if virtual addresses are ever extended to full 64 bits.)
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16:00:29 <Fiora> say nice to Intel maybe? :P though apparently it came because of VM-related things
16:00:31 <kmc> why would it fail, if you're using the /low/ byte?
16:00:47 <Jafet> fizzie: mmap everything yourself then
16:01:02 <Vorpal> kmc, he is shifting the entire address up to store stuff in the low byte
16:01:08 <fizzie> kmc: Because when you shift a pointer left by 8 to make room for that byte, the top 8 bits fall off.
16:01:20 <Fiora> fizzie: that's really sneaky
16:01:29 <kmc> won't you also run into the canonical address restriction on current processors?
16:01:38 <Fiora> canonical address restriction?
16:01:52 <fizzie> They're not used as pointers after shifting.
16:02:48 <fizzie> Technically, it's exactly the canonical form addresses that let it work, since the top 8 bits are always the same as the top 9th one. (Though I suppose for my uses I could've just assumed they are all zeros.)
16:03:14 <fizzie> (It also means my immediate integers are 56-bit, which is kind of a silly number.)
16:03:27 <Fiora> canonical addresses are 56 bits?
16:03:34 <kmc> i go forwards and you go backwards and some day we will meet
16:03:41 <fizzie> Or maybe I did 63-bit ones by reserving one half of the tags, can't remember.
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16:04:29 <Fiora> oh, 48 then, that makes more sense...
16:04:48 <Fiora> does it depend on the CPU? like I thought different CPUs supported different numbers of address bits
16:04:52 <fizzie> "address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual"
16:04:54 <Vorpal> Anyway on a given CPU it might be more restricted than that.
16:05:01 <Fiora> oh... that's physical that gets restricted
16:05:05 <Vorpal> address sizes: 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
16:05:19 <fizzie> This is very consumer too.
16:05:22 <Vorpal> 36 on a Core i5? Really
16:05:29 <fizzie> (AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5600+.)
16:05:38 <Fiora> my haswell thing says 39
16:05:40 <fizzie> In fact, compared to the i5 it's positively ancient.
16:05:44 <Vorpal> yeah my old Sempron had more than 36
16:06:11 <kmc> the Pentium Pro had 36 bit physical addresses!
16:06:19 <Vorpal> Jafet, 36-bit is same as what PAE allows
16:06:20 <fizzie> IIRC, my work-workstation has a number so that the installed memory is already a quarter of what's possible.
16:06:24 <Vorpal> kmc, yeah, and this is a Sandy Bridge
16:06:46 <fizzie> It has 16 gigs in it, and I guess 2^36 is 64, so it probably had that width.
16:07:02 <Vorpal> My desktop also has 16 GB, so yeah
16:07:09 <Vorpal> the mobo only supports up to 32 though anyway
16:07:23 <Fiora> I think address widths depend more on market segmentation and stuff than technology?
16:08:40 <fizzie> address sizes : 32 bits physical, 48 bits virtual go go Intel Atom power.
16:09:01 <kmc> i have a sandy bridge laptop with 36 bits and a Phenom II desktop with full 48 bits (!)
16:09:06 <Jafet> Does sandy bridge chipset actually allow 64GB
16:09:10 <Fiora> is there an easy way to check on windows
16:09:14 <Fiora> I guess I could just google my CPU
16:09:18 <elliott> address sizes: 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
16:09:25 <kmc> i don't think my motherboard will support 256 TB of memory though
16:09:42 <kmc> it might support... 256 GB
16:09:56 <Fiora> it says "max memory size: 32GB" so um. I guess that's 35 bits?
16:10:14 <kmc> windows says? or googling it
16:10:18 <Fiora> http://ark.intel.com/products/64891
16:11:10 <olsner> at 256GB and up I think you should start measuring it in TB
16:11:11 <fizzie> Could also have something to do with some other limit than the cpuinfo address size, who knows.
16:11:14 <Fiora> it's a laptop cpu so maybe they allow less?
16:11:28 <kmc> technically the physical address space size could be different from the amount of actual physical memory the CPU can talk to
16:11:39 <kmc> maybe they are reserving half of the physical address space for memory mapped I/O :)
16:12:17 <Fiora> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/cprofitt/T530 yay I found a paste of someone else's cpuinfo -_-
16:12:20 <Fiora> looks like 36 bits
16:12:27 <fizzie> Our cluster has a couple (2? 8?) nodes with 1T, that's probably the most I've "seen" (aka ran something on) on a single system.
16:14:24 <fizzie> I don't know how to ask SLURM for node names in a queue, otherwise I'd go and run 'free' on one.
16:14:50 <Jafet> "Hey guys, can I run free on the cluster"
16:15:53 <olsner> I wonder if AMD just doesn't report a useful physical size at all and that's why they say 48 bits
16:15:58 <fizzie> [htkallas@fn02 ~]$ free total used free shared buffers cached
16:16:01 <fizzie> Mem: 1058758568 159762660 898995908 0 267512 70067644
16:16:03 <fizzie> -/+ buffers/cache: 89427504 969331064
16:16:06 <fizzie> Swap: 67108856 26592 67082264
16:16:12 <fizzie> Aw, linewrapped to headers.
16:17:04 <fizzie> free -b has some trouble with alignment:
16:17:06 <fizzie> total used free shared buffers cached
16:17:06 <fizzie> Mem: 1084168773632 163434242048 920734531584 0 274001920 71750295552
16:17:58 <fizzie> And there seems to be just one of them at the moment. They had two, maybe the other one broke.
16:18:10 <lambdabot> SimonMarlow says: This is the largest program (in terms of memory requirements) I've ever seen anyone run using GHC. In fact there was no machine in our building capable of running it, I had to
16:18:10 <lambdabot> fire up the largest Amazon EC2 instance available (68GB) to debug it - this bug cost me $26.
16:18:53 <fizzie> Our general shell server has 96 gigs. And thousands of irssi's.
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16:19:08 <Fiora> wow. that's a big disk cache
16:19:57 <Jafet> I like how swap is on.
16:20:40 <kmc> the Shadow Chancellor is named Ed Balls
16:20:53 <fizzie> How do I ask ps for only commands with no pids or anything?
16:21:27 <Jafet> Or one of the other five hundred syntaxii
16:21:51 <fizzie> -o comm worked vaguely like it.
16:22:34 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/GgKI there we go.
16:22:40 <Jafet> Now you can sift through for anything that looks vaguely like a password
16:23:48 <fizzie> It's a kerberos thing.
16:24:04 <fizzie> Keeps a ticket current so access to directories doesn't time out.
16:24:28 <fizzie> I think they've mangled in some sort of automatic on-login krenew background task in.
16:24:38 <fizzie> Because there were... issues, before.
16:24:45 <Jafet> Is that, like, 971 nfs mounts
16:25:22 <fizzie> Maybe approximatively, since I think all homedirs are automounted individually.
16:26:00 <olsner> is that a good way to set it up? why not mount /home once and for all?
16:26:52 <fizzie> The tickets are per-user, anyway. But seems that there are only 10 /m/home/homeN mounts.
16:27:30 <fizzie> I live in /m/home/home2/22/htkallas.
16:28:02 <Jafet> Freshwater Pearl Necklace http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA11S0P55306
16:28:15 * kmc reading about the history of C while listening to neo-60s psychedelic rock
16:28:24 <Vorpal> I know someone with a dual Xenon (i7, ivy bridge) mobo with 64 GB RAM as their desktop. Some Nvidia SLI thingy as well
16:28:51 <Vorpal> Pretty absurd computer
16:29:07 <Vorpal> For a home desktop that is
16:29:19 <Jafet> 1970s thrash metal
16:30:00 <elliott> like they had a second 60s
16:30:03 <fizzie> The lab systems have individually automounted home/scratch directories, at least. I'm not sure what the actual benefits there are, but at least it makes tab-completion on workstations marginally easier, when the directories aren't full of billion subdirs.
16:30:07 <Fiora> am I insane for having 32GB in my laptop <.<
16:30:22 <elliott> how do you use 32 gigabytes of RAM...
16:30:22 <fizzie> Though it's somewhat unsettling to do ls, not see something, but then still being able to cd in.
16:30:40 <olsner> Vorpal: not that absurd, memory size doubles all the time, what's absurd is that someone paid the Xeon and dual cpu tax for their home computer
16:30:44 <kmc> elliott: yep
16:30:49 <Vorpal> elliott, hey. I use 16 GB RAM easily, I recently swapped on this thing
16:30:58 <Fiora> I'm guessing it mostly goes to having a big disk cache
16:31:07 <kmc> having 32 GB sounds wonderful
16:31:12 <kmc> RAM is cheap, you should have as much as you can
16:31:15 <Vorpal> and I would kill for 32 GB in my work laptop (instead of the 12 GB I have now)
16:31:35 <Fiora> ~2GB for my browsers ish, 1GB for other programs, 2GB for a currently running game, 10GB for the disk cache for the game...
16:31:39 <Fiora> it probably really adds up
16:31:54 <Fiora> then again um I have an SSD so I probably don't actually need that disk cache but
16:31:57 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/Lcgc nurrr, so confusing.
16:32:01 <kmc> http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/68610992/Directions+to+See+a+Ghost+folder.png
16:32:05 <elliott> you mean you don't compulsively quit browsers before starting a resource-intensive game??
16:32:23 <Fiora> I alt-tab between them and the game >:3
16:32:31 <Jafet> I would need more memory, but firefox reliably crashes after using 3GB so it's ok
16:32:52 <fizzie> kmc: I was hoping for directions on seeing a ghost folder, or perhaps at least a description about what kind of folder a ghost folder is.
16:32:56 <elliott> Fiora: imo think of the starving children like me who regularly exhaust their 4 gigabytes :'(
16:33:10 <Vorpal> I have a 240 GB Intel 520 SSD in my work laptop, 12 GB RAM and a pretty high end mobile Core i7 (ivy bridge). Some Nvidia chipset too, not sure which one
16:33:11 <Jafet> Also, if you start firefox and don't restore the previous session, and it crashes and you restore the current session, you'll still get a tab inside the current session asking you to restore the previous session
16:33:23 <Fiora> um I'd send you some old extra RAM sticks I have
16:33:30 <Fiora> but 2GB DDR3 sticks probably aren't useful to anyone
16:33:38 <elliott> i don't think i could even put more ram in this laptop
16:33:41 <fizzie> Steam's in-game web browser thing is kind of a funky occasionally.
16:33:48 <elliott> Jafet: have you heard of ineiros's web browsing system
16:33:49 <Fiora> that's my feeling too, it's like, everyone's lapto comes with at least 2x2GB
16:34:00 <Fiora> so these sticks are totally useless
16:34:06 <Vorpal> fizzie, that is assuming it is a steam game you are playing
16:34:13 <olsner> my laptop fits up to 16GB, I think ... but I was too cheap and only put 8GB in it :(
16:34:30 <elliott> i will probably get 16 gigs when i upgrade
16:34:32 <elliott> it seems like a reasonable size
16:34:33 <fizzie> Vorpal: It still stays funky even when you're not playing a Steam game, you just can't access it.
16:35:21 <elliott> kmc: why is that on newegg
16:35:23 <fizzie> Jafet: ineiros had nested "do you want to restore these tabs?" tabs up to a depth of 8 or something.
16:35:24 <Jafet> elliott: does it involve 5000 inactive tabs
16:35:30 <olsner> elliott: a reasonable size will become a small size far too quickly
16:35:34 <Phantom_Hoover> meanwhile on the topic of steam: wtf is it still complaining about the public beta for
16:35:38 <elliott> Jafet: it involves crashing the browser to nest the restore tabs pages
16:35:55 <Jafet> I think I will get to 8 in a few months
16:36:08 <kmc> why is what on newegg?
16:36:09 <Jafet> firefox is crashing less often, though, so I can't say
16:36:24 <fizzie> Jafet: Then it sort of blew up, because each level of nesting approximately doubled the amount of storage it takes, due to nested escaping; as in " -> \" -> \\\" -> \\\\\\\" -> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\".
16:36:56 <kmc> > iterate show ""
16:36:58 <fizzie> Jafet: If you've got a lot of nesting going on, you might want to inspect your session storage, it can look amusing.
16:36:59 <lambdabot> ["","\"\"","\"\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\...
16:37:11 <Jafet> Also why isn't it sessionstore.js.gz
16:37:33 <elliott> imo telling people apart is too ahrd
16:38:20 <Jafet> fizzie: indeed, my new sessionstore is twice the size of the old
16:39:15 <Vorpal> I went to chromium months ago.
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16:40:29 <Jafet> firefox with noscript is probably the safest useful browser. Though if you take noscript off it probably becomes the unsafest
16:42:58 <kmc> fsvo 'useful' and 'browser'
16:43:31 <Vorpal> true, the memory usage is really bad though
16:43:47 <Vorpal> Jafet, also chromium is probably safer when you do need js
16:44:00 <kmc> I guess with NoScript you just enable scripts on things you want to view as applications rather than documents
16:44:11 <kmc> it's a weird property of the Web that it doesn't distinguish between applications and documents
16:45:26 <Bike> well hey, word processors have programming languages in them
16:46:16 <Jafet> I don't know any browser that has a per-domain switch for javascript, flash and cross-site request
16:46:33 <Jafet> Chromium just lets you turn everything off and on again
16:48:13 <olsner> opera has site-specific preferences for lots of stuff, including javascript and plugins (not sure about cross-site requests)
16:49:13 <Vorpal> hm is there not a noscript plugin for chromium?
16:49:21 <Vorpal> that would be really nice
16:49:26 <Jafet> Yeah but opera is unusable, it breaks all the non-standards-conforming websites
16:49:46 <fizzie> Chrome has a built-in thing that does the basics, in that you can whitelist sites for JS.
16:50:15 <fizzie> You can also turn off plugins and the enable them on a site-by-site basis.
16:51:55 <fizzie> I used to use FlashBlock in Chromium, but nowadays I just use its built-in "click before running" setting for Flash.
16:53:10 <elliott> I think there is an actual NoScript too
16:57:22 <fizzie> Heh, went to look at Chromium settings, apparently my "Camera" is set to "BT878 video (Hauppauge (bt878))".
16:57:31 <fizzie> Here's what comes out of that device, according to mplayer: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130427-bt878.png
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16:58:07 <kmc> directions to see a ghost
16:59:01 <olsner> fizzie: that is very similar to what comes out of mine
16:59:17 <fizzie> olsner: I'm sure it'd get you a lot of fans in, say, Omegle.
16:59:24 <olsner> I believe connecting the cable will allow you to get a better picture though
16:59:30 <kmc> use it as a random number generator
16:59:58 <kmc> do you all remember LavaRand
17:00:05 <fizzie> olsner: I don't think anyone's really broadcasting analog TV around here.
17:00:12 <elliott> fizzie: is that what you look like irl
17:00:24 <fizzie> elliott: It's a good approximation.
17:00:40 <fizzie> I remember it was made by SGI or something.
17:01:39 <fizzie> I did use a regular webcam (with a lens cover on) for feeding /dev/random, at one point. Gave it up since there didn't really seem to be a terribly good reason for it.
17:01:48 <olsner> oh, has finland shut down analog tv for good?
17:01:50 <Jafet> mov rax, [rsp]; high quality randomness
17:03:13 <fizzie> olsner: In 2008 or so.
17:04:27 <fizzie> "Finland ceased analog terrestrial transmissions nationwide at 04:00, Saturday, 1 September 2007" thank you, Wikipedia.
17:04:51 <olsner> apparently 19 October 2007 in Sweden
17:04:53 <fizzie> Cable TV broadcasters apparently stretched it to 2008.
17:06:14 <fizzie> Analog FM radio is still around, but I don't think bt878 does it; some close relatives of the chipset do.
17:13:20 <fizzie> I believe the line-in of the card can technically be used as a general-purpose reasonably-high-bandwidth ADC; where "reasonably-high" means in compared to a sound card with a 48 kHz sampling rate on inputs, for example.
17:13:24 <fizzie> "The analog input offers 360 gHz usable BW at 8 effective bits or 100 kHz usable BW at 12 effective bits." (bt878 datasheet.)
17:13:48 <fizzie> Not that I know how the line-in hole of my card is wired, I've never plugged anything in there.
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17:17:24 <ThatOtherPerson> I love it when I don't understand the code that I am typing
17:19:10 <Vorpal> ThatOtherPerson, I hate that
17:19:46 <ThatOtherPerson> I think I understood it at one point but forgot and I'm now just going along with it
17:20:03 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/111ddb52571438dba0db3055899217db/tumblr_mi53y7UBgv1rdbszlo1_1280.jpg united kingdom
17:21:50 <Phantom_Hoover> it was only called the united kingdom after the union with scotland in the first place
17:22:34 <kmc> what game?
17:22:46 <fizzie> Formats of S8 and S16LE and sample rates of 119466-448000 is what Alsa says about the [Bt87x Analog] capture device.
17:22:55 <fizzie> (448000 Hz is a lot of Hz.)
17:22:56 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: http://25.media.tumblr.com/e82c763998e141b3775609dbe4164974/tumblr_mhypkdV2qI1rdbszlo1_1280.jpg better?
17:23:09 <Bike> kmc: victoria II, i think
17:23:18 <kmc> the cornish empire shall rule the world
17:23:45 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/231432d67b2eaa4a13e870581a66ad64/tumblr_mgrn803zPQ1rdbszlo1_1280.jpg this blog is really quite fantastic
17:23:55 <Phantom_Hoover> i like the way the king of scotland is called scotland
17:24:05 <kmc> the cornish language becomes the global language of business and science
17:24:48 <Phantom_Hoover> huh, cornish is one of the non-goidelic celtic languages
17:24:51 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: it's a cornish herald saying "My King, Scotland has accepted[...]"
17:25:16 <Bike> my favorite so far is probably http://24.media.tumblr.com/6e2bea1bc14ddd76e71dc430d839cba0/tumblr_mia6zs5VCA1rdbszlo1_400.png
17:25:32 <kmc> what island is that
17:25:50 <kmc> crotobaltislavonia aiwa!
17:26:28 <elliott> Bike: do you have a `linque'
17:27:20 <Fiora> Bike: oh gosh there's a blog for that?
17:27:41 <Fiora> why is EU3 the best thing ever
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17:31:03 <kmc> woah, Python has modular exponentiation built in
17:31:07 <kmc> pow(base, expt, mod)
17:38:52 <Bike> elliott, Fiora: http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/
17:39:12 <Bike> also my favorite is actually the one involving "Incan Songhai" but i'm too lazy to find it again
17:39:26 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/ed05bf8e1668e65ae79a7dbfe88da6d4/tumblr_mgu1mhkMKd1rdbszlo1_500.jpg blaze it
17:40:13 <ThatOtherPerson> http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/image/48858474406 <-- my Arabic Culture teacher was from Nejd
17:41:11 <Bike> isn't it like mostly empty
17:41:56 <ThatOtherPerson> In that map though, Nejd is shown as covering the empty quarter
17:42:30 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saudi_Arabia_-_Nejd_region_locator.png ?
17:43:08 <Bike> oh, i thought the "empty quarter" was pretty mjuch everything not on the coast
17:43:10 <Bike> rather than the south
17:45:04 <ThatOtherPerson> Bike: part of the Empty Quarter that I've been too: http://amplivex.com/SHAYBAH3a.jpg
17:47:52 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
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17:53:39 <elliott> what do you want taneb for anyway
17:53:56 <ThatOtherPerson> We were going to make something goofy for Ludum Dare together
17:54:14 <ThatOtherPerson> But right now I'm just making something goofy for Ludum Dare by myself
17:55:01 <Fiora> Bike: this blog is amazing
17:55:40 * Fiora looks at http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/image/48858474406 , tries to figure out what's wrong. looks and looks. then. SCANDINAVIA
17:57:05 <elliott> http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/image/48544010152 wales
18:12:57 <Bike> Fiora: "Neuchatelian Africa, now, that's normal"
18:14:26 <Bike> ThatOtherPerson: looks pretty/hot/pretty hot
18:15:37 <Bike> Neuchâtel is apparently part of Switzerland. rad
18:16:31 <Bike> kmc: also: is the modular exponentiation like a good implementation
18:18:03 <kmc> i don't know, it's fast enough for my purposes
18:18:55 <kmc> it can do like 1024 bit numbers quickly
18:18:58 <Bike> http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/image/39664457525 am i reading this right
18:23:49 <Bike> i think the dude is having an affair with his daughter/
18:24:16 <Jafet> > let pow w t f| f==0 = mod 1 w |odd f = pow w t (f-1)*f`mod`w |True = pow w t (div f 2)^2`mod`w in pow 3 (2^2^5+1) (2^(2^5-1))
18:25:31 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/cd37c3cc241d80390fd6a0ba6b877586/tumblr_mf67chV6CD1rdbszlo1_1280.jpg argh, even i know that's not how those letters work
18:26:18 <kmc> was polish ever written with cyrilic?
18:26:46 <Bike> uh, i dunno. pretty much everything was at some point but
18:27:04 <Bike> i mean poland already had a writing system during the soviet era so they wouldn't have invented one
18:28:59 <Bike> looks like no, but on the other hand Aleut was for a while!
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18:35:20 <Fiora> kmc: what modular arithmetic thingy are you doing?
18:35:35 <kmc> implementing diffie-hellman and RSA for fun
18:36:41 <Fiora> Bike: wooooooowww (re http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/image/39664457525)
18:37:56 <Fiora> I'd make an incest comment but I get the feeling much of the royalty of that era was terribly incestuous anyways
18:38:43 <kmc> les cousins dangereux
18:39:08 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md5avc57MR1qc0163o1_500.jpg with strange consequences
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18:39:42 <Fiora> Bike: well they *told* you to beware of mpreg
18:40:14 <Bike> they did. they did and i didn't listen
18:41:45 <Bike> "I'm curious to know what the outcome was... Was it cancer?" "Haha no. After selecting the little box he loses his pregnancy symptom"
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18:46:54 <Fiora> wait, that was a real message? XD
18:47:23 <Bike> nah, some kinda hack
18:47:43 <Bike> can you even get things like incan songhai in the unmodified game
18:47:52 <Fiora> I don't know, I haven't played it enough...
18:48:15 <Fiora> I'm not very good at managing royalty
18:48:23 <Bike> have you considered: liberating the ainu from the japanese, in a game where you play as the Cree
18:49:01 <Bike> think about it!!
18:49:41 <Bike> i've never played any of these games but i read a narrative LP where scotland takes over europe from a base in Memphis so it's p. much the best thing ever
18:50:27 <Bike> the little known scottish imperial period
18:50:53 <Bike> honestly i'd believe about anything from history after learning about polish-mongolian literature and basque-icelandic creole and shit
18:51:01 <Bike> history is another country and it is fucking insane
18:51:48 <Jafet> "Thank god we don't live there"
18:53:04 <Bike> no it's cool. it's far enough away that i can read things like "40% of the population was killed" and not be emotionally affected
18:53:11 <Bike> http://lparchive.org/A-Scotsman-In-Egypt/
18:54:11 <elliott> i know next to nothing about the last king of scotland but i'm totally namedropping it here due to the proximity of "scotland" and "egypt" (a country like "uganda")
18:54:51 <Phantom_Hoover> http://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Boatmurdered/Update%202-18/ sankis
18:55:03 <Bike> http://lparchive.org/A-Scotsman-In-Egypt/ <-- oh that was real huh
18:55:06 <Bike> er wrong paste
18:55:08 <Bike> "His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular", in addition to his officially stated claim of being the uncrowned King of Scotland.
18:55:27 <elliott> i like "and Uganda in Particular"
18:55:44 <Bike> he awarded himself a victoria cross. ballsy
18:55:48 <elliott> like it starts off trying to be your overly formal ridiculously grand title but then it's like
18:55:59 <elliott> pretty proud of that one!!
18:59:28 <Fiora> now you're getting me reading this LP
19:00:18 <Bike> i wonder if a more reasonable monarch had funny things like that in their titles
19:00:18 <Fiora> oh my gosh the intro XD
19:00:58 <Bike> "George the Third, by the Grace of God, King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, and so forth" well that's pretty good
19:01:04 <Bike> "defender of the faith bla bla bla"
19:01:07 <olsner> I think most royalty have lots of extra titles that usually aren't mentioned
19:01:29 <Bike> i think they did the out of universe stuff in the forums thread
19:01:42 <Bike> that's where they explained the ridiculous exploits they used to make the thing possible i think
19:02:45 <Fiora> the scottish egypt thing?
19:03:23 <Fiora> are there any LPs like this that explain like all their exploits in the LP itself? the narration is cool but I'd love to learn all the things they're donig
19:03:56 <kmc> did his title actually include "and so forth"
19:05:40 <Fiora> (this is why I really love Sulla's Civ 4 game logs, they explain everything!)
19:06:02 <kmc> par la Grâce de Dieu, Reine du Royaume-Uni, du Canada et de ses autres Royaumes et Territoires, Chef du Commonwealth, Défenseur de la Foi
19:06:33 <coppro> kmc: you forgot the start
19:06:41 <Bike> kmc: so wikipedia says
19:08:07 <Bike> Fiora: none that i'm aware of, the closest i've seen is a couple DF LPs
19:08:25 <Bike> "we modded in these psycho zombie dorf enemies" etc
19:09:12 <Bike> i don't think they actually cheated in the scot LP, anyway, just exploited stupidities of the AI
19:09:53 <Fiora> yeah, that's the part that's really the best
19:10:01 <Fiora> coming up with amazing strategies and exploits
19:10:10 <Phantom_Hoover> The SA series of DF LPs got steadily more narrative though
19:10:28 <Fiora> my favorite of all time is still the Sulla "cultural conquest" game series
19:10:38 <Bike> headshoots rocked
19:10:40 <Fiora> where his goal was to win a domination/conquest victory in civ 4
19:10:45 <Fiora> without ever firing a shot, or conquering a city
19:10:51 <Bike> Fiora: well i'm not a gamer so i mostly paid attention to the plot you nerd
19:10:53 <Fiora> the game mechanics abuse was staggering
19:10:59 <Fiora> and it was amazing
19:10:59 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.computerandvideogames.com/161570/blog/galciv-2-war-report-final-entry/?site=pcg
19:11:06 <Bike> oh man that one's fucking great
19:11:08 <Phantom_Hoover> then the sequel, http://www.computerandvideogames.com/195920/blog/galactic-civilizations-diary-days-1-26/#
19:11:14 <Fiora> oh no I'm a nerd >_<
19:11:28 * Fiora dons her black thick-rimmed glasses
19:11:34 <Bike> "Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor" not bad
19:12:06 <Bike> "King of the English, raised by the right hand of the Almighty to the Throne of the whole Kingdom of Britain" haha i think this guy is my favorite premodern english king
19:12:12 <kmc> in Deus Ex you could beat the first level without killing anyone, and you got an achievement or whatever for it, but also your cybernetically enhanced killing machine coworkers would look at your funny
19:12:42 <Bike> you sure you wanna mess with the hand of god you scottish motherfuckers??
19:12:52 <Phantom_Hoover> in deus ex you can complete the first level without doing anything
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19:13:07 <Bike> luigi augments by doing absolutely nothing
19:13:22 <Phantom_Hoover> there's a notorious exploit where if you lob a gas grenade into unatco hq it'll piss off one of the guards and he'll open the front door
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19:13:53 <Bike> you've all seen "luigi wins by doing absolutely nothing" right
19:14:29 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZwjYv3sfk masterful AI
19:14:50 <mnoqy> what did i lie about this time
19:15:36 <oerjan> * coppro is leaving. goodbye. <-- very slowly, i take.
19:15:57 <Fiora> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CwDngBhmQXY#! this is the best
19:16:12 <Fiora> Luigi beats every level 9 CPU in SSBM without touching the controller
19:16:13 <Fiora> it's kind of amazing
19:17:29 <Vorpal> <kmc> in Deus Ex you could beat the first level without killing anyone, and you got an achievement or whatever for it, but also your cybernetically enhanced killing machine coworkers would look at your funny <-- you can get through that entire game not killing anyone
19:17:53 <Vorpal> kmc, iirc there are some exploits you can use to not kill the bosses iirc
19:18:13 <Vorpal> in Deus Ex: Human you do have to kill the bosses though. So that is like... 3 kills?
19:18:23 <kmc> also http://i.imgur.com/dAtcCfH.gif wheeeee
19:18:34 <Vorpal> Deus Ex HR was a great game with bad boss fights.
19:18:36 <Phantom_Hoover> you can complete HR without killing anyone because the bossfights in that game NEVER HAPPENED
19:18:37 <Bike> it's reasonably common to have "pacifist" gameplay in games that aren't unabashed killfests
19:18:44 <Vorpal> Really didn't like those bosses.
19:18:47 <Bike> kmc: incredible
19:18:48 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, ah yes, quite so
19:19:10 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, actually, going non-lethal in the tutorial was a bitch
19:20:08 <Vorpal> Bike, yeah I always play my stealth games non-lethal and non-seen.
19:20:30 <Bike> and here's what i know about HR bossfights http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/9/2
19:20:54 <Vorpal> <kmc> also http://i.imgur.com/dAtcCfH.gif wheeeee <-- LP snake?
19:21:13 <kmc> did you know that the Shadow Chancellor of the UK is named ED BALLS
19:21:20 <kmc> today is Ed Balls Day
19:21:30 <elliott> kmc: you know literally every time i see snake
19:21:33 <elliott> it makes me want to implement a snake game
19:21:38 <elliott> Vorpal: chances in the shadows
19:21:44 <Vorpal> elliott, easy one to implement
19:21:45 <kmc> Vorpal: yeah the UK has a Shadow Chancellor
19:21:47 <elliott> like he controls all the gambling but only the kind that goes on in dark back alleys
19:21:51 <Vorpal> kmc, what does that mean
19:21:53 <kmc> the title is much cooler than the actual office
19:21:56 <Bike> imo just use M-x snake like a real man etc jokes
19:22:09 <Vorpal> elliott, pull the other one
19:22:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, the Opposition cabinet is called the shadow cabinet
19:22:14 <Bike> shadow chancellor is the opposition leader, right?
19:22:19 <FreeFull> There was only one real programmer
19:22:23 <elliott> Vorpal i just don't feel that way about you :(
19:22:39 <Phantom_Hoover> don't think there's a name for opposition leader beyond 'leader of the opposition'
19:22:43 <Bike> UK government is so beautifully ridiculous
19:22:49 <kmc> Chancellor of the Exchequer is the minister in charge of the money
19:22:56 <kmc> phat stacks of £££
19:22:58 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: leave me to my fantasies sir
19:23:02 <Phantom_Hoover> not to be confused with the First Lord of the Treasury
19:23:13 <kmc> they're sort of #2 in the government overall I guess?
19:23:29 <Bike> since i found out about the outlawries joke i'm pretty convinced the elected government is just an elaborate joke and the country is actually ruled by king murdoch or whatever
19:23:30 <kmc> Vorpal: and there's a "shadow cabinet" composed of whatever party isn't currently in power
19:23:37 <elliott> the chancellor of the exchequer is the guy who invests the gambling-related murders of people who used to handle cheques
19:23:37 <Bike> outlawries bill*
19:23:47 <kmc> basically it's the Shadow Chancellor's job to complain constantly about the real Chancellor
19:23:48 <Vorpal> kmc, oh yeah, the stupid "mostly two party" system
19:23:58 <Phantom_Hoover> the title of prime minister is fun because it's basically a giant ball of random important titles bundled together
19:23:58 <kmc> i think that's all he does
19:24:13 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh? What is the full string?
19:24:18 <FreeFull> The prime minister is odd, because he isn't two
19:24:26 <Vorpal> kmc, but aren't there three parties in UK?
19:24:30 <elliott> kmc: should i write a snake game
19:24:44 <Vorpal> elliott, yes, that fits in the MBR
19:24:47 <kmc> https://twitter.com/edballsmp/status/63623585020915713
19:24:59 <kmc> Vorpal: yeah, I don't know how they decide which party or parties is the opposition
19:25:14 <Bike> kmc: yep now i'm certain
19:25:20 -!- Taneb has joined.
19:25:38 <Bike> no way this is real. real government figures were be shouting about aborting muslims or something
19:26:11 <Koen_> Taneb: ThatOtherPerson has been looking for you
19:26:20 <elliott> Vorpal: well I was going to do it in Haskell.
19:26:26 <Taneb> ThatOtherPerson: I forgot that I was going to someone's birthday party
19:26:30 <Vorpal> <kmc> https://twitter.com/edballsmp/status/63623585020915713 <-- is that retweets or?
19:26:37 <Vorpal> I don't really know how twitter works
19:26:45 <kmc> Vorpal: is which
19:26:50 <elliott> Vorpal: ed balls tweeted the string "Ed Balls"
19:26:52 <kmc> it shows the tweet, then replies
19:27:04 <kmc> the little icons next to the retweet / favorite count are the ppl who have rt'd / fav'd it
19:27:07 <Bike> Vorpal: yes that's how i know my gov't is real
19:27:18 <Taneb> ThatOtherPerson: on the other hand, I now own a collection of Thor comics
19:27:18 <Vorpal> kmc, right, but why is there nothing the guy in question himself says in your link
19:27:23 -!- augur has joined.
19:27:30 <Bike> Vorpal: no he says "Ed Balls". that's the tweet
19:27:51 <Vorpal> Bike, Looks like "Ed Balls" is the name of that guy???
19:27:59 <Bike> it's also the tweet.
19:28:07 <Bike> i know this may be a little complicated to understand
19:28:09 <Vorpal> Bike, look here is his twitter: https://twitter.com/edballsmp
19:28:24 <kmc> that's the joke
19:28:26 <Vorpal> Oh I guess that is a tweet, not just a title at the top
19:28:28 <elliott> Bike: have you noticed Vorpal is swedish. you'll never be able to explain anything to him
19:28:36 <kmc> he tweeted just his own name
19:28:42 <Jafet> Is that the multithreaded version of edball
19:28:45 <Vorpal> elliott, understanding social media is hopeless.
19:28:54 <Vorpal> elliott, a lot of it make no bloody sense.
19:29:00 <Bike> btw here is what a proper government looks like http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2007/06/redistribution_1.html
19:29:06 <kmc> like a pokémon
19:29:10 <Bike> (everybody read this it's amazing)
19:29:29 <olsner> elliott: does that apply to all swedes or just Vorpal?
19:29:49 <Vorpal> olsner, (too bad for you)
19:30:42 <elliott> olsner: well I don't know you're pretty good
19:31:32 <Bike> oh also, i was reading an old book the other day and it mentioned a Dr. Butt
19:31:35 <Bike> wasn't sure what to think about that
19:31:46 <Bike> it was published in like 1806 so definitely before the invention of humor
19:33:21 <Bike> is Butt a british name?
19:33:28 <kmc> "An Ed Balls bookmarklet[7] tool allows users to change the text on an entire webpage to the name “Ed Balls” (shown below)."
19:33:53 <fizzie> I told Steam to do something that "require[s] an Internet connection and a few minutes' time", two hours ago; it's still claiming to be doing that something.
19:34:08 <elliott> Bike: hmmmmm the name bryan caplan is familiar
19:34:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, what something?
19:34:23 <Vorpal> fizzie, also is that for Linux or Windows?
19:34:23 <Bike> elliott: i'm sorry to hear that
19:34:53 <elliott> Punchline: Through the lens of the Jock/Nerd Theory of History, the welfare state doesn't look like a serious effort to "equalize outcomes." It looks more like a serious effort to block the "revenge of the nerds" - to keep them from using their financial success to unseat the jocks on every dimension of social status.
19:35:04 <fizzie> Vorpal: Windows, and the window says it's doing "game content conversion". It's for Cogs. (Thought I'd spend a few moments clicking things.)
19:35:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, yeah that might be annoying
19:35:40 <Bike> elliott: american political discourse
19:35:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, Especially with a game like Cogs I would assume it is broken by now
19:35:58 <Vorpal> fizzie, that save file should be pretty small
19:36:20 <Bike> elliott: (if it helps, imagine Thatcher wearing coke bottle glasses and a pocket protector)
19:36:48 <fizzie> Vorpal: I told Steam to exit, and then restarted it, and now it's performing "first time setup" of Cogs. Oh well.
19:36:58 <kmc> i would want some citations on the claim that in 'primitive tribes' the nerds get beat up
19:37:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, ouch, You probably lost saves then
19:37:17 <kmc> also don't believe that hunting and farming are about brute strength
19:37:18 <Fiora> is it just me or does the whole jock/nerd thing ignore everyone who isn't white and a dude basically
19:37:47 <Jafet> On the internet, you will hear many claims of doing something the "first time".
19:37:56 <Bike> kmc: as an economist, i can assure you that human development is exactly as depicted in 80s films about high school
19:37:56 <fizzie> Vorpal: I think all my saves were on the non-Steam Linux version, anyway. I just noticed it has achievements in Steam, and thought I should do some of those. I mean, achievements.
19:38:05 <kmc> Fiora: not entirely, but that's largely true
19:38:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, you like achivements? Why?
19:38:40 <kmc> i think for women the stereotypes are pretty vs. smart rather than strong vs. smart
19:38:43 <kmc> which makes even less sense
19:38:48 <Jafet> Fiora: don't forget californian
19:39:02 <Vorpal> kmc, brunette vs. blond?
19:39:16 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's some sort of a thing.
19:39:28 <Phantom_Hoover> and albinos i guess although they probably come under blonde
19:39:37 <kmc> wait, that Ed Balls tweet was sent at 4:20 PM
19:39:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, well that was nebulous...
19:39:49 <elliott> This post led Bradford DeLong to call Caplan "the stupidest man alive".[35]
19:39:51 <Bike> ed balls for president of england
19:39:53 <kmc> that's what http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/proof-that-the-ed-balls-meme-is-really-getting-out-of-hand says
19:40:04 <Bike> elliott: excellent
19:40:28 <Bike> "In April 2010, he caused controversy with a blog post that argued that women were more free in the 1880s than they are in the 21st century" sounds like a good post
19:40:39 <kmc> ed balls did? or nerd economist guy?
19:40:57 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, well I believe the stereotypes is blond = pretty but stupid & vulnerable, brunette = can take care of themselves, ginger = ?
19:40:58 <Bike> and god he just LOOKS like a nerd too
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19:41:06 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BryanCaplan.jpg look at this fucking face!
19:41:23 <Bike> that's what /i'd/ look like as a fucking economist i betcha
19:41:29 <Bike> what the hell is the tie pattern
19:42:48 <Bike> does anyone read delong's blog? i have a friend who does but he's way more into economics than i'll ever be
19:43:34 <Jafet> White middle class male american economics
19:43:42 <Jafet> Probably insightful
19:44:33 <Bike> well it's like that or marxists and have you /read/ marxists recently
19:44:54 <kmc> mostly I hate the jocks vs. nerds stuff because wealthy grown men use it as an excuse for bad behavior
19:45:49 <Taneb> kmc: today I was on a train casually reading a comic when someone compared me to the big bang theory, and there were enough drunk football fans to warrant a police presence
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19:46:11 <elliott> Taneb: did you punch them and rely on the police to back you up
19:46:30 <Taneb> elliott: I can't punch
19:46:38 <elliott> Taneb: just like $nerd from $media!
19:46:44 <Phantom_Hoover> how do you know they weren't comparing you to the actual theory
19:46:58 <oerjan> <Sgeo> I just realized... now that I have money, I could buy an AW citizenship <-- something tells me we should have seen this coming.
19:46:59 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover: they had my legs
19:47:02 <Bike> remember to bite in truly bad situations
19:47:23 <Bike> i'm kind of confused here, did you actually get beaten up
19:47:25 <Taneb> Also I was not sure whether they were comparing me to the theory, TV show or song
19:47:38 <Taneb> However the TV show makes most sense in context
19:47:43 <Taneb> Bike: I was not beaten up
19:48:05 <elliott> what's baffling me is like...
19:48:11 <elliott> were they actually comparing you to the /show/
19:48:14 <elliott> and not any particular character on it
19:48:35 <Taneb> The person literally said "This guy looks like the big bang theory"
19:48:51 <Taneb> And she touched my comic book!
19:48:55 <Taneb> My shiny knew comic book!
19:48:59 <Phantom_Hoover> (i am now uncomfortably aware of the fact that even the muffled intonation of that show annoys the hell out of me)
19:49:02 <Bike> female jocks?? what is this madness
19:49:03 <elliott> truly awful btw you're reminding me of this guy i once knew
19:49:10 <Bike> that's impossible!!!
19:49:11 <elliott> well by knew i mean... well let's not get into that, but anyway
19:49:15 <Taneb> Bike: I think this was "girlfriend of the jock"
19:49:16 <oerjan> Taneb: is she your nemesis
19:49:41 <Taneb> oerjan: I have never seen her before, do not intend to see her again, do not know her name, and cannot remember what she looks like
19:49:55 <Bike> ok what's the opposite of synecdoche
19:49:56 <oerjan> Taneb: oh dear, a secret nemesis
19:50:06 <Jafet> White middle class male american jocks
19:50:07 <Bike> oh, the opposite of synecdoche is synecdoche
19:50:09 <Bike> very convenient
19:50:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Jafet, why do you keep saying white middle class american male
19:50:19 <Bike> anyway drunk people are good at that i guess. good to know.
19:50:49 <Taneb> Jafet: only a third of those words are correct
19:51:05 <Taneb> "White working class female British jocks"
19:51:27 <Taneb> My comic book with Jane Foster!
19:51:55 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover: I can't count right now
19:51:57 <Bike> Jane Foster is a Marvel Comics supporting character who for many years was the nurse employed by Dr. Donald Blake, the secret identity of the Norse god superhero Thor.
19:52:12 <Taneb> Not since the bendy straw pentagram
19:52:46 <Jafet> Ok, five-sixths correct is good.
19:53:14 <Jafet> I think the remaining incorrect word was "jock"
19:54:13 <ThatOtherPerson> people at school say that I remind them of someone, maybe his name was Sheldon, from the Big Bang Theory
19:54:23 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover: I think she was geordie
19:54:27 <ThatOtherPerson> I've never watched the show, so I don't know if that's good or bad...
19:54:33 <Taneb> ThatOtherPerson: bad
19:54:48 <Bike> you should get swole
19:54:49 <Jafet> It's an american sitcom
19:54:58 <Bike> american sitcoms are bad
19:55:06 <Taneb> It means you're an antisocial nerd with OCD
19:55:14 <Bike> white middle class male american sitcom
19:55:22 <Phantom_Hoover> and so any kinds of Weird-ness are instantly associated with him
19:55:45 <ThatOtherPerson> Is it better that they then say that I'm not really like Sheldon afterwards?
19:55:51 <Phantom_Hoover> (my favourite thing about this is that they can't actually decide on a way of being consistently weird so they just have him Act Weird in every episode in wildly inconsistent ways)
19:56:05 <Bike> it doesn't really matter anyway, for reasons roughly explained by phantom
19:56:09 <Bike> they probably mean well
19:56:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: wow you're sure being a SHELDON about this
19:56:20 <Bike> people are not assholes, generally speaking
19:56:21 <elliott> (i've seen like five minutes of the big bang theory)
19:57:00 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, man i got so angry for a second there before my higher thought processes pointed out it was a joke
19:58:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: your "higher thought processes", uh huh, keep going, sheldon
19:58:40 <elliott> alternajoke higher thought processes? [adjoint joke]
19:59:35 <kmc> <Bike> american sitcoms are bad ← not all just many / most
19:59:40 <elliott> just say no Phantom_Hoover
20:00:07 <Bike> follow up the nerdinsult joke with a category theory joke. good
20:00:12 <Jafet> Most of those sitcoms exist to make the remaining ones look good
20:00:57 <elliott> Bike: is it really a category theory joke if you just rely on it sounding like "a joint" a lot
20:00:57 <kmc> Community is good, although kind of inconsistent
20:01:01 <kmc> quality wise
20:01:10 <kmc> it's good because they try a lot of strange inventive things and they mostly work
20:01:12 <elliott> adjoint functor and now she's all funked
20:01:18 <kmc> not because they do any one thing really well
20:01:29 <kmc> i have some gripes with the show especially now that it's in its 4th season and the original showrunner left
20:01:36 <Bike> elliott: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mclzvopMTU1rdbszlo1_1280.jpg
20:01:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: look shachaf started it
20:01:59 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, yes i stopped at season 3 and told myself "and they all lived dysfunctionally ever after"
20:02:24 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mce4i9m3i51rdbszlo1_400.png so simple, and yet so perfect
20:02:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, i like how catalonia has been harried before the new zealand advance
20:02:36 <Taneb> Catalonia isn't there!
20:02:59 <Bike> Taneb: yeah it is, it's west of prussia
20:03:06 <Bike> didn't you even take history class
20:03:07 <elliott> i mix up catalonia and caledonia
20:03:37 <kmc> good American sitcoms: 30 Rock, Community, Arrested Development, Seinfeld, Louie (if that counts as a sitcom, Veep (if that counts as American), Parks and Recreation, The Office (first few seasons and yes, I know it's not the same as the British one, but it's good in its own way)
20:03:57 <Bike> 30 rock is great at least
20:04:12 <kmc> 30 rock had some meh seasons too but yes, in its prime it was fucking fantastic
20:04:17 <kmc> i've been rewatching season 2 and... wow
20:04:31 <Phantom_Hoover> i like parks and rec but for a while i wasn't really sure if it was just the theme tune i like
20:04:46 <Bike> ThatOtherPerson: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbxyqy3rIm1rdbszlo1_1280.png this one's for your teacher
20:05:00 <Bike> man the more i look at this the more fucked it is
20:05:14 <kmc> oh Better Off Ted is also quite good
20:05:28 <Taneb> Catalonia's east of Prussia, you nitwit
20:05:32 <Bike> apparently kokand is a city in uzbekistan
20:05:41 <kmc> and I also mix up Catalonia and Caledonia
20:05:46 <kmc> and New Catalonia and New Caledonia
20:05:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, is this just where the name generator assigns places
20:06:15 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: no, the places start out where they did in reality
20:06:28 <Bike> though this might be edited? i can't imagine the shit that must have gone down to make this happen
20:06:51 <Bike> but i mean hey, in real life the turks were from like mongolia and now they're where the byzantines were, so who fucking knows
20:07:33 <Taneb> And weren't the celts like originally from north India or something
20:08:02 <Bike> i think you'd have to back to indo-europeans for that
20:08:11 <Bike> in which case they'd be from like uh... i think like ukraine?
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20:08:53 <Taneb> And now they're a football team from Glasgow
20:09:00 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IE_expansion.png yeah like crimea or some shit
20:09:18 <Bike> or the caucasus, wow i suck at geography??
20:09:50 <kmc> it began in afrika ka ka ka ka ka ka ka
20:09:52 <Bike> celtic laws have some similarities with like the vedas though, so that's cool. yay historical linguistics
20:09:56 <Bike> that's a good song
20:10:11 <Bike> is what ireland
20:10:24 <Bike> oh in scandinavia? seems so
20:13:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, fun fact, all the 'big' football teams in scotland are descended from irish sectarianism
20:15:47 <Taneb> Even Berwick Rangers
20:16:33 <Taneb> berwick rangers 5eva
20:20:43 <Taneb> That's not very eva
20:22:33 <Taneb> Indeed, that's barely eva at all
20:24:00 <kmc> can anyone tell me if 323881938846738047746870455602874074901336126707685518455811764915667973569999865537886964769040496686033405297612705110899842872859133005347540587475353582859705921325259462979638585820989306894214743679831554044493873890738256566574450230154534309506024889546552539655250471277326377578604547835848811647989 is prime
20:24:18 <fizzie> Why don't you just pass that to factor(1).
20:24:29 <Bike> well factor isn't a person
20:24:42 <kmc> factor complains it's too large :3
20:24:52 <fizzie> What, a thousand bits is too large!
20:24:59 <fizzie> Well, a thousand and twenty-four and so.
20:25:08 <elliott> kmc: (this is a classical statement btw)
20:25:50 <Jafet> ? isprime(323881938846738047746870455602874074901336126707685518455811764915667973569999865537886964769040496686033405297612705110899842872859133005347540587475353582859705921325259462979638585820989306894214743679831554044493873890738256566574450230154534309506024889546552539655250471277326377578604547835848811647989)
20:25:58 <Bike> non-classicists are not allowed to say "yes"
20:26:17 <elliott> Bike: well I didn't identify the person who could tell him that
20:26:23 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover: no
20:26:24 <Bike> yes i get the joke
20:26:55 <Bike> how do you know?
20:26:57 <fizzie> Given a number that's around 1024 bits long, I'd a priori have assumed it's the product of two primes.
20:27:01 <elliott> Bike: i wasn't sure since like
20:27:35 <Bike> elliott: a biologist reading classic texts
20:27:42 <Bike> "Birds: Their Form and Function"
20:27:45 <Bike> it's a manual for birds
20:27:51 <elliott> pretty sure birds don't know anything about formal logic
20:28:12 <Bike> haven't you ever read To Mock a Mockingbird
20:28:15 <Bike> shachaf beat this guy up
20:28:21 <kmc> are there ISO standards pertaining to birds
20:29:31 <Taneb> kmc: I don't think so
20:29:32 <Bike> "Scripture facts on Abomination, Birds Of. Bible encyclopedia for study of the Bible." this was a good google kmc.
20:29:40 <Taneb> http://www.iso.org/iso/home/search.htm?qt=bird&published=on&active_tab=standards&sort_by=rel
20:30:04 <Taneb> imo birds should be standardised
20:30:05 <Bike> oh, i guess there might be standards for classification (j/k taxonomy is a clusterfuck)
20:30:19 <Bike> "All authorities agree that the exact origin of the word bird, as we apply it to feathered creatures, is unknown." !!!!!
20:30:50 <Bike> hm, bats aren't kosher
20:30:57 <Jafet> Fundamental unsolved problems in ornithology
20:31:15 <Taneb> Jafet: that's etymology...
20:31:20 <Bike> "squid" is also unknown
20:31:24 <Bike> imo etymology is impossible
20:31:40 <Taneb> "penguin"'s also unknown, iirc
20:31:46 <Taneb> It's narrowed down to two
20:32:44 <Bike> This change from regarding the stork as a delicacy to its protection by a death penalty merely indicates the hold the characteristics of the bird had taken on people as it became better known, and also the spread of the regard in which it was held throughout Palestine.
20:34:27 <Bike> "The trunk of a bird is compact and in almost all instances boat-shaped. Without doubt prehistoric man conceived his idea of navigation and fashioned his vessel from the body of a water bird, and then noticed that a soaring bird steered its course with its tail and so added the rudder." mmhm, mmhm.
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20:43:41 <ThatOtherPerson> Something I've been messing around with: http://jsfiddle.net/Mf3VE/1/
20:45:55 <ThatOtherPerson> Taneb and I are maybe going to use this to make a game for Ludum Dare
20:46:10 <Taneb> elliott: it's Piet as in the artist, not the programming language
20:46:28 <elliott> how does the gameplay work
20:46:33 <Taneb> ThatOtherPerson: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html
20:46:36 <Taneb> elliott: it doesn't yet
21:01:53 <fizzie> Huh, arecord only accepts sample rates up to 192 kHz.
21:02:24 <pikhq> Shame. I really want to use ALSA for all my digital signal sampling.
21:04:34 <fizzie> I don't think ALSA per se has such a limitation -- snd_pcm_hw_params_get_rate_max call says 448 kHz is just fine -- it's just the arecord tool.
21:05:52 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lrarI8Zs1rdbszlo1_1280.jpg wisely did Send Delegate to the Pope
21:07:21 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lqtbA2OX1rdbszlo1_500.png fuck you, france
21:08:50 <elliott> mnoqy: Hoel III wisely made the decision to Send Delegate to the Pope.
21:09:18 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lqimFtnM1rdbszlo1_500.png do you even know anything about canada
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21:16:31 <Bike> elliott: related: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lsjeRbUg1rdbszlo1_1280.png
21:17:20 <elliott> Bike: btw link mnoqy to the blog of these
21:17:21 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8lsjeRbUg1rdbszlo2_1280.png turkey, turkey, turkey, turkey,
21:17:23 <elliott> maybe he will 'understand'
21:17:29 <Bike> mnoqy: http://believableworlds.tumblr.com/ do you understand
21:17:41 <zzo38> Is this color better? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/Userboxes/program_famicom
21:19:36 <mnoqy> Bike: i understood from the 'get go'
21:20:56 <Bike> it's ok. we'll love and support you no matter what. we're your parents
21:21:19 <elliott> Bike: woha you're mnoqy's parents too???
21:21:32 <Bike> we should get married
21:21:43 <elliott> ok sure but you have to stop being a biologist
21:21:57 <Bike> what if i went into.................. anthropology
21:22:12 <elliott> can it be mathematical anthropology, does that exist, it has to
21:22:17 <elliott> computational anthropology
21:22:35 <Bike> there' actually a PLoS blog about neuroanthropology iirc
21:22:37 <elliott> mnoqy: tell us the problem
21:23:18 <Bike> The aim of CAIRS -- Computational and Informatic Anthropology -- is to contribute to anthropology and the fields that impinge on it by helping to develop on-line archives and field-study resources, provide new methods and means for investigating problems bearing on human populations, to promote the use of computers in the practice of anthropology, and to advise and provide information resources for the anthropology community worldwide and for
21:24:10 <Bike> http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/abdesign.shtml oh yes
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22:00:27 <zzo38> There is a tree structure where each node has a name. The names are not necessarily unique. The names also have a length. The nodes need to be colored red, yellow, and blue, in order to reduce the total cost of all the nodes. The cost shall be zero for red or blue nodes if their youngest ancestor of the same color has the same name, and equal to the length of their names otherwise.
22:00:34 <zzo38> What is the algorithm to do this?
22:07:12 <kmc> the algorithm is a MAX-SAT solver ;)
22:07:16 <kmc> but maybe there is a clever way as well
22:07:32 <kmc> what is the cost of a yellow node?
22:07:47 <zzo38> The length of the name.
22:09:00 -!- Tritonio has joined.
22:09:59 <kmc> if i write code like this will people want to punch me:
22:10:00 <kmc> sys.stdout.write('\rTesting %s done\x1B[K\n' % (name,))
22:12:42 <zzo38> I don't know, but I don't.
22:12:56 <kmc> also if i write code that's like try { return something; } finally { some cleanup; }
22:13:35 <zzo38> What is the point of that?
22:15:04 <fizzie> kmc: A true Pythonman would probably want to punch you for using the % operator.
22:15:17 <kmc> fizzie: oh because we're supposed to use .format() now?
22:15:34 <elliott> is that a thing people care about
22:15:50 <zzo38> Well, I think the % operator in that way in Python is not really bad
22:16:01 <fizzie> I believe I have been told that % is very depurkkated by the Formatter format strings.
22:16:12 <elliott> okay well i suggest kmc write it in haskell instead, imo
22:16:39 <kmc> zzo38: say that 'something' is an expression that could throw an exception. i want to do cleanup as the function exits whether or not it's an exceptional exit
22:17:20 <fizzie> "This method of string formatting is the new standard in Python 3, and should be preferred to the % formatting described in String Formatting Operations in new code." <- Python v2.7.4 documentation / Built-in Types.
22:17:20 <kmc> this alternative might be easier to understand at a glance: try { res = something; } finally { cleanup; }; return res;
22:17:24 <zzo38> kmc: In that case it is OK, I guess.
22:17:36 <kmc> but i don't like the extra statement and unnecessary extra variable
22:17:52 <zzo38> Yes, I would say try { return ... is OK, even if other people don't like it.
22:18:07 <kmc> i think (since this is actually Python) the pythonic and also nicer option would be to make a context manager for this cleanup
22:19:03 <kmc> but i can't be bothered for my small case
22:19:11 <kmc> Go has an interesting solution to this problem: http://golang.org/doc/articles/defer_panic_recover.html
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22:19:37 <zzo38> Well, I think try { return something; } finally { some cleanup; } is OK for such purpose.
22:20:11 <kmc> basically there's syntax for pushing a statement onto a queue of things that will run whenever the current function exits
22:21:01 <elliott> go's exception handling is uh
22:21:11 <kmc> i wouldn't call this exception handling
22:21:14 <elliott> by which I think I mean "bullshit"
22:21:21 <kmc> at least the 'defer' part by itself isn't
22:21:40 <FreeFull> What do you guys think about Rust?
22:21:48 <kmc> it sounds cool
22:21:58 <kmc> it's more interesting than Go from a language nerd perspective
22:22:05 <kmc> i don't know which one would ultimately be better for getting shit done
22:22:16 <kmc> Rust is definitely more ambitious in terms of the tradeoff of performance and static safety
22:22:32 <elliott> i would be quite happy if rust replaced C overnight i think
22:22:44 <FreeFull> Rust seems to be borrowing from a lot of different languages
22:22:55 <elliott> and all the reasons I have seen to not be 100% on board with it have roughly consisted of it being *too* conservative
22:23:05 <kmc> isn't it uh...
22:23:08 <kmc> not totally baked yet
22:23:25 <kmc> replacing C overnight with something unusable seems poor
22:23:36 <kmc> lololololololololol
22:23:39 <elliott> but yes obviously I meant a working version
22:23:49 <elliott> if all the world's code was written in rust, rust would work
22:24:04 <FreeFull> I'm guessing it'll be good for general usage once it hits 1.0
22:24:06 <kmc> elliott: look real programmers use C and never ever make mistakes, if you ever make a mistake of any kind you are an idiot who should never be near a keyboard
22:24:25 <elliott> kmc is just bitter because he makes mistakes
22:24:34 <kmc> in @ mistakes are impossible
22:24:41 <FreeFull> There isn't a programmer that never made a mistake
22:24:43 <elliott> no they're possible it just detects them
22:24:44 <kmc> btw is @ so named because it comes before A in the alphabet?
22:25:03 <elliott> kmc: that's a good reason to call something @ but have you heard my pedantic explanation of how @ is not actually @'s name yet
22:25:08 <FreeFull> kmc: In Polish it's called a monkey
22:25:34 <elliott> kmc: because let me tell you
22:25:38 <elliott> I looooove delivering that explanation
22:25:47 <Bike> @ for king of europe
22:26:32 <fizzie> In Finnish @ is sometimes called "cat's tail". Also sometimes something like "meow-meow". (But not often.)
22:26:46 <elliott> i think kmc wisely ran away
22:26:51 <kmc> elliott: no tell me
22:27:08 <kmc> i accidentally turned on my xbox with my foot
22:27:33 <fizzie> kmc: It has a foot fetish?!
22:27:50 <elliott> kmc: ok so i suck at naming things and like all things about @ am incessantly perfectionist about it
22:27:58 <elliott> kmc: @ is actually an english-language macro that expands to whatever name i will give @ in the future
22:27:58 <mnoqy> fizie......................
22:28:12 <elliott> kmc: i think you will agree that this is genius
22:28:27 <kmc> fizzie: apparently
22:28:29 <elliott> also whenever i do give it a name i'll get gregor to sed -i 's/@/thename/g' over the logs
22:31:11 <mnoqy> i forget, what's your answer to things like
22:31:48 <Bike> that use of the macro is clearly quoted mnoqy
22:31:52 <mnoqy> "'@' a very weird word"
22:32:24 <kmc> `(hello ,@(elliott))
22:32:24 <mnoqy> > text (reverse "@")
22:32:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: (hello: not found
22:32:49 <elliott> mnoqy: are you saying you've never seen lambdabot be wrong
22:33:06 <elliott> Bike: no there's no quoting
22:33:10 <elliott> it'll even get expanded in email addresses
22:33:18 <mnoqy> lambdabot's telling the truth!!it really can't find L.hs
22:33:25 <elliott> it's not my fault people have been persistently misusing the @ codepoint for decades
22:33:32 <mnoqy> too busy answering your DUMB USELESS '1' QERY
22:33:40 <mnoqy> poor lambdabot :'[[[
22:34:16 <mnoqy> should have used something more obscure as a macro
22:34:51 <Bike> perfection shouldn't have to care about previous (and WRONG) usage, mnoqy.
22:34:52 <mnoqy> or used something sensible like a "working name"
22:34:59 <elliott> mnoqy: are you suggesting @ is based around compromising my vision for the sake of others
22:35:07 <elliott> i don't think you get it at all!
22:35:20 <elliott> it was called elliottOS at first but that's ugly and too long to type and also it's not really an OS anyway
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22:40:07 <Bike> wow that might actually be worse
22:40:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: no that was like your thing
22:40:30 <elliott> that i convinced you should be @ instead
22:40:36 <elliott> embrace, extend, extinguish
22:40:46 <Bike> imo, @ should be that language Chaitin made that's like lisp with apl syntax
22:41:09 <elliott> i think @'s language was going to basically be agda but better last time i thought about it
22:42:08 <Phantom_Hoover> or rather FRP with bells on and something else which made it better
22:42:37 <kmc> frrrrrrrrp
22:45:08 <elliott> also something about quoting. it'd be the best, in summary
22:46:40 <Bike> i hear quoting is unhygenic
22:47:12 <mnoqy> imo make it b/c of i want the best
22:52:39 <elliott> no but ais523 calls his own thing elliottcraft
22:53:11 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: yeah, elliottcraft is my language/game
22:53:29 <ais523> it's kind-of not particularly specified
22:53:36 <ais523> I think I have a spec lying around somewhere I can pastebin
22:53:48 <Phantom_Hoover> i remember doing the modelling for the elliottcraft prototype
22:54:17 <ais523> http://sprunge.us/RKMQ
22:54:26 <ais523> as always with ais523 work-in-progress specs, it may or may not make any sensee
22:54:49 <Bike> z is up down eh
22:58:06 <kmc> 'Sometimes, dlls export functions with names which aren’t valid Python identifiers, like "??2@YAPAXI@Z"'
22:58:12 <kmc> great function name imo
22:58:51 <Bike> [THE JOKE IS C++,]
22:58:57 <kmc> quite likely
22:59:43 <kmc> i implemented the Miller–Rabin primality test in Python and I'm using ctypes to test it against OpenSSL
23:00:08 <coppro> ais523: it probably makes more sense than grammartree :P
23:02:14 <coppro> especially as I go in and try to make things more like real grammar
23:02:22 <coppro> (grammar is hard, let's go shopping. for CUBES, presumably)
23:02:51 <fizzie> "IEC958_SUBFRAME. Stays crunchy ... ... even in milk." (Google page summary, start of.)
23:04:06 <fizzie> (I was looking at what the ALSA format "IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE" might be. Perhaps it's a method of writing raw IEC958 frames out of the S/PDIF pipe.)
23:07:45 <FireFly> Maybe fungot knows what IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE is?
23:07:45 <fungot> FireFly: i think that in response to the question of whether you want to set the palette, so if you show that macro transformations are useful.
23:08:04 <fizzie> fungot: Is it what I think it is?
23:08:04 <fungot> fizzie: oh you're talking about. ;p http://www.slengpung.com/ v3/ fnord
23:08:19 <fizzie> fungot: No, that's not what I'm talking about.
23:08:20 <fungot> fizzie: i pime fnord 12. ( yes, there are some written in smalltalk: squeak.
23:08:30 <coppro> ais523: factory cube-factory cube interaction is left unspecified
23:08:38 <coppro> also you have a hanging sentence at the end of the conveor cube section
23:08:46 <ais523> yeah, I noticed that hanging sentence rereading it
23:08:57 <ais523> factory/factory interacts like mobile/mobile, anyway
23:09:00 <ais523> they just push each other
23:09:21 <ais523> I think that's the default
23:11:12 <kmc> factory cube, factory cube, factory cube hates triangle cube
23:11:33 <elliott> it's stuck in my fucking head now
23:11:36 <kmc> what's IEC958... oh it's S/PDIF?
23:11:39 <kmc> elliott: you're welcome
23:12:43 <ais523> also, just looking at this, there's too much randomness in action resolution
23:13:05 <ais523> really it should be entirely deterministic, to ease hashlife-style processing
23:13:35 <elliott> maybe i should put flood on
23:14:20 <ais523> anyway, factory cubes seem to be indestructible
23:14:24 <ais523> but I'm not sure that's a problem
23:14:36 <ais523> I've been wondering if there's a way to dig an infinitely growing pit that you can just drop them down
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23:25:11 <HackEgo> 590) <Phantom_Hoover> I think the worst part of growing up is that it isn't retroactive.
23:25:31 <Bike> what does that even mean
23:26:37 <Bike> i'm pretty sure past me continued on to be present me
23:26:48 <kmc> the past is a grotesque animal
23:26:58 <kmc> and in its eyes you see, how completely wrong you can be
23:27:25 <shachaf> The elephant is a growtusk animal.
23:28:33 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/002719ea5041eea5f32942c6371d29dd/tumblr_mlxin2L1b51rlkewbo1_1280.png
23:29:01 <mnoqy> experience with beans
23:30:31 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/6613166321d75d542cde3ed5852e2e85/tumblr_mlwz717Xf11rlkewbo1_1280.png this one's for shachaf
23:30:51 <kmc> where are these from
23:30:58 <kmc> i wanna see if any sites i made in middle school show up
23:31:21 <Bike> http://oneterabyteofkilobyteage.tumblr.com/
23:31:36 <Bike> an outgrowth of that "you can download the entirety of geocities for some reason" thing
23:32:18 <kmc> are these... real screenshots of Windows 95
23:32:33 <mnoqy> kmc: they made a diagram of how they do it
23:32:49 <kmc> i think my shit was on angelfire
23:33:24 <kmc> anime has been one of the reasons the internet has grown so quickly in the recent years
23:33:26 <mnoqy> http://contemporary-home-computing.org/1tb/wp-content/uploads/screenshots-proxy.svg
23:33:30 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: lemme save you through looking through the terabyte: no
23:33:38 <kmc> is that supposed to have text
23:33:47 <Bike> that's a fucking great diagram
23:33:49 <mnoqy> http://contemporary-home-computing.org/1tb/archives/3808 try this one
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23:34:20 <kmc> http://contemporary-home-computing.org/1tb/wp-content/uploads/tumblr_mlfjf3xX5g1rlkewbo1_12805.png
23:34:56 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: yeah but you can't make that work with tiled backgrounds and framesets anyway
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23:37:12 <kmc> http://25.media.tumblr.com/df1e21c0c7c9e77649155518bf57eb20/tumblr_mlwo30gWm21rlkewbo1_1280.png this is approaching actual design
23:37:26 <kmc> i mean it's ugly but someone did put effort into it
23:37:40 <kmc> Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left To Loose
23:37:47 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/f36246b3f5e43d2d46b9eaa452635bbe/tumblr_mlwb4ftQbc1rlkewbo1_1280.png hm this design is alright
23:39:15 <fizzie> "steve's intense web" page at Bike's link was so intense, it left me reeling.
23:39:23 <kmc> http://25.media.tumblr.com/faed6e672b8b88ef5f81e6d689e6a4a6/tumblr_mlvjccYHUq1rlkewbo1_1280.png
23:40:04 <kmc> i enjoy the mojibake but it might be better if they fixed it
23:40:27 <elliott> well that's what it'd hvae looked like irl
23:40:51 <kmc> presumably not if you spoke the language in question
23:40:52 <Bike> only because you have some anglophone locale.
23:40:59 <kmc> at least there would be a reasonable chance of it coming out ok
23:41:18 <Bike> unmarked shift-jis would work great on a defaultly installed japanese windows 95, probably
23:41:26 <kmc> i think if you're russian in this era you have your browser set to KOI8-R by default or something
23:41:34 <elliott> well so it's from the perspective of a western person browsing the web
23:41:36 <kmc> and/or have traded your computer for old shoes to eat
23:41:46 <elliott> like the OS is clearly not japanese
23:42:00 <mnoqy> western person browsing SO MANY anime sites
23:42:00 <kmc> welp just more anglocentric history I guess >_<
23:42:02 <Bike> eurocentrism in our internet research
23:42:14 <Bike> mnoqy: acccurate portrait of our history
23:42:49 <elliott> kmc: i mean if it installed a japanese os for the japanese pages that would be cool
23:43:01 <elliott> but i don't think just fixing the mojibake and leaving the rest equal would make it better
23:43:14 <Bike> well, i suppose it's automated, and the pages probably don't have their locales marked very well
23:43:25 <elliott> well it's easy to detect char encoding in 2013
23:44:05 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/5e8db0be081fb264eaef4fdcececaa92/tumblr_mlvowfPpAA1rlkewbo1_1280.png this strikes me as very 'monqy style'
23:45:34 <mnoqy> i wish real life could be more like oneterabyteofkilobyteage
23:46:38 <elliott> Bike: that background makes me think http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/84062663/Emergency++I+High+Quality+PNG.png
23:46:55 <mnoqy> is that an album art
23:47:01 <kmc> why 'kilobyte age'
23:47:15 <pikhq> elliott: It's very nontrivial to detect Shift-JIS in particular.
23:47:18 <mnoqy> i should listen to this album because it has good art
23:47:37 <elliott> i think the reissue had a less great cover :'(
23:48:06 <mnoqy> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Displan-emergency.jpg apparently
23:48:35 <Bike> so i saw http://24.media.tumblr.com/128054f91cf826e316b13b71bdbe56fb/tumblr_mlvk9oXBOF1rlkewbo1_1280.png and tried to find the guy
23:48:41 <Bike> which led me to the full page: http://www.reocities.com/collegepark/union/4138/
23:49:07 <Sgeo> Just because I signed up for Amazon instant prime, and plan on buying stuff through Amazon, doesn't mean I should have gone with Kindle instead of Nook a while ago, right?
23:53:46 -!- conehead has joined.
23:54:18 <HackEgo> cone: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:54:19 <Sgeo> `welcome conehead
23:54:21 <HackEgo> conehead: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)