00:00:14 <kmc> OS/ABI: UNIX - System V
00:00:18 <kmc> Machine: Atmel AVR 8-bit microcontroller
00:01:17 <kmc> it has a provision for 'undefined behavior'
00:02:12 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:04:56 <kmc> avr-gcc creates an image that will I think execute whatever happened to be in flash before
00:05:05 <kmc> after the standard bss-zeroing routine
00:10:59 <shachaf> "main;" is undefined behavior, presumably.
00:11:07 <shachaf> Does a syntax error count as crashing?
00:12:57 -!- mnoqy has joined.
00:13:25 <shachaf> how's the worst thing in the world
00:14:17 <mnoqy> i havent been around
00:14:20 <mnoqy> you should be telling me!
00:14:42 <shachaf> why would i make your life miserable
00:19:07 <kmc> what's that
00:20:07 <shachaf> categories for the working mississippian
00:20:43 <kmc> Capture The Flag With Mnoqy
00:21:37 <shachaf> SGEO_: HEY IT"S FRIDAY WHERE"S MY ~OLIST
00:21:46 <mnoqy> shachaf: im still in my "first pass" where im just reading it while im waiting for things like between classes and not really spening a lot of time on the exercies
00:22:25 <shachaf> mnoqy: ok and "how s it goin g"
00:23:34 <mnoqy> shachaf: im "on" the kan extensions section but i might go back and do some of the exercises now....the "initial pass" thing is starting to break down
00:25:51 <shachaf> kmc: do you play the game where you type a ^W ^Y ^Y ^W ^Y ^Y ^W ^Y ^Y ...
00:27:26 <shachaf> watch out for "using up all your memory"
00:27:31 <kmc> sha chafchafsha chafchafchafchafsha chafchafsha chafchafchafchafchafchafchafchafsha chafchafsha chafchafchafchafsha chafchafsha chafchafchafchafchafchafchafchaf
00:27:45 <shachaf> also ^U works if you have spaces
00:29:11 <kmc> ((((\x. x x)(\x. x x))((\x. x x)(\x. x x)))(((\x. x x)(\x. x x))((\x. x x)(\x. x x))))((((\x. x x)(\x. x x))((\x. x x)(\x. x x)))(((\x. x x)(\x. x x))((\x. x x)(\x. x x))))
00:31:14 <shachaf> > unwords $ liftA2 (++) inits tails "Bike"
00:31:25 -!- objobj has joined.
00:32:42 <HackEgo> objobj: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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00:37:55 <Sgeo_> tswett, I should read the ruleset someday
00:38:14 <tswett> Is it on your to-do list?
00:38:34 <Sgeo_> I don't particularly have a formal to-do list
00:39:41 <tswett> I've found making one monolithic to-do list to be more useful than all other anti-procrastination techniques combined.
00:42:37 <Sgeo_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevator_algorithm
00:42:48 <Sgeo_> I was hoping to read about algorithms that elevators use...
00:44:17 <kmc> play SimTower
00:45:47 <shachaf> After 15 years of not using IRC.
00:45:47 <Phantom_Hoover> i wonder how sophisticated lift programming is these days
00:47:09 <Sgeo_> The algorithm described in thar article does not seem like it would necessarily be the best, but it does seem like it would be good at making people on the elevator not get angry
00:48:13 <Phantom_Hoover> yeah, i guess you have limited control once people actually get into them
00:56:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
01:04:05 <Sgeo_> Do intrusive thoughts get worse with sleep deprivation?
01:04:52 <shachaf> is that like "intrusive data structures"
01:10:55 <shachaf> But how do you get from the passphrase to the AES encryption key? I couldn’t find it documented anywhere, so I had to dig through the OpenSSL source to find it:
01:10:58 <shachaf> Append the first 8 bytes of the IV to the passphrase, without a separator (serves as a salt).
01:11:01 <shachaf> Take the MD5 hash of the resulting string (once).
01:11:34 <shachaf> is this how the key for encrypting my ssh private key is generated :'(
01:11:46 <kmc> yep apparently
01:11:52 <kmc> but you can upgrade to pbkdf2
01:11:55 <kmc> i think that article says how
01:12:35 <kmc> Sgeo_: I'm not sure but I would believe it. certainly visual and auditory (pseudo)hallucinations do
01:12:54 <kmc> if I stay up long enough I start to see illusory patterns on textured surfaces, hear music in white noise, etc
01:13:13 <kmc> sometimes hear whispering voices that i can't quite make out
01:13:23 <kmc> it's a pseudohallucination because I know that these things aren't real
01:13:27 <kmc> similar effects to LSD really
01:13:32 <kmc> (in that respect)
01:14:37 <shachaf> i love the hallucinations from staying up long enough
01:31:18 <kmc> maybe i should drink from the clear jar that says "WINE" on it in magic marker
01:32:11 <shachaf> I used to get a warm fuzzy feeling from staying up long enough.
01:32:48 <shachaf> Nowadays it just feels awful.
01:33:03 <shachaf> I think kmc told me I was getting old.
01:33:42 <kmc> i think shachaf and i are getting old at the same rate
01:34:11 <shachaf> the ratio of our ages is getting closer to 1 :'(
01:35:29 <kmc> i guess next week I'll get old a bit less due to traveling at 0.0000008c for a few hours
01:35:33 <kmc> 'pretty fast imo'
01:36:02 <shachaf> 'pretty slow imo' - photon
01:36:19 <kmc> photons can't talk, you're thinking of phonons
01:36:28 <shachaf> is your flight all planned and booked
01:36:52 <shachaf> who booked it, the non-profit or the non-non-profit
01:36:56 <kmc> the latter
01:37:50 <shachaf> maybe you'll move to sf and i'll move to boston to balance things out
01:37:59 <kmc> Mar 29: B6 633 BOS→SFO; Jun 4: AA 1530 SJC→ORD, AA 1358 ORD→BOS
01:39:33 <shachaf> By the timing of those flights you're not stopping there to meet people, though.
01:39:48 <kmc> correct, they just scheduled a 1-stop flight for whatever reason
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01:40:41 <kmc> i have a hotel in Mountain View for the 29th and the 2nd and 3rd
01:41:27 <kmc> will stay with friends in SF
01:41:44 <kmc> hotel is useful so that i don't have to take caltrain at ass o' clock
01:43:25 <shachaf> Hmm, I need to be in SF sometime between 10 and 13 sometime.
01:49:15 <kmc> you could go on Friday and we could hang out after
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01:53:19 <kmc> is it hard for you to get to SF?
01:53:50 <kmc> are you within walking distance of caltrain
01:54:17 <kmc> not precisely
01:54:50 <shachaf> Newell Rd. & Woodland Ave.
01:55:04 <kmc> sounds picturesque
01:55:19 <kmc> so close to ikea
01:55:33 <shachaf> I've never been there, though.
01:55:43 <kmc> they have good meatballs, I guess that doesn't interest you though
01:55:49 <kmc> well 'good' may be hasty
01:55:52 <kmc> they have meatballs
01:56:03 <shachaf> a good meatball is a dead meatball
01:56:11 <kmc> the meatballs are surprisingly non-awful for food that comes from a furniture store
01:56:44 <kmc> looks like a 2 mile walk to caltrain
01:57:03 <kmc> it's weird how south bay seems so sprawly but it's only like 5 miles across
01:57:55 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/bb51dc73f8ee1ac2365c692ca981dcc2/tumblr_mnbb9ivnPE1r0ix14o1_500.jpg
01:58:51 <kmc> (not clever)
01:59:15 <kmc> moffett field has a light rail connection
02:01:35 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe I just need to send this by mail.
02:01:53 <shachaf> I need to print out a form. :-(
02:03:28 <shachaf> hmm this sign says "NO BIKES ALLOWED INSIDE"
02:03:35 <kmc> http://local.fedex.com/ca/east-palo-alto/
02:04:01 <kmc> or, bluff your way into a computer lab at stanford?
02:04:09 <kmc> i hear grad students will do anything for free food
02:04:21 <shachaf> One time I went to one of those places to have a thing scanned.
02:04:38 <shachaf> then i left the original behind "woops"
02:05:32 <shachaf> and it had my social security number on it "double woops"
02:05:46 <shachaf> "all sorts of woopses that day"
02:10:13 <shachaf> Maybe I can go to the consulate on Friday and have them print it.
02:11:00 <Sgeo_> shachaf, I hate you
02:11:13 <Sgeo_> (Assuming that you were joking about it not being... oh... dammit\
02:11:27 <Sgeo_> I confused edwardk and ekmet... wait... I'm still confused
02:12:32 <shachaf> Sgeo_: If you address me with " ::" I won't tell you the answer.
02:15:02 <lambdabot> I've never canceled a subscription to a newspaper because of bad cartoons or editorials. If that were the case, I wouldn't have any newspapers or magazines to read.
02:17:01 <Sgeo_> shachaf: Ok. What's the answer?
02:17:21 <Sgeo_> shachaf: Who wrote the Pong example for lens?
02:17:26 <kmc> http://www.marriedtothesea.com/052313/goddamned-government.gif
02:18:32 <kmc> hunt ducks with a quad .50 cal
02:20:17 <copumpkin> I use one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AW50
02:21:36 <copumpkin> only problem is that there isn't much of the duck left
02:22:05 <shachaf> copumpkin: wasn't that the goal in the first place
02:22:59 <shachaf> AW50? i prefer AN602 for my ducks
02:24:00 <kmc> i use one of those ABM lasers, cooks 'em before they hit the ground
02:24:18 <kmc> apparently the Predator C / Avenger has one of those o_O
02:24:25 <kmc> drone vs. ballistic missile
02:25:03 <kmc> we were watching this promo video earlier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dHKWjXn-E
02:25:32 <kmc> if you've been on the fence about buying an Avenger combat UAV, this will surely change your mind
02:26:42 <kmc> I think most drones are pretty slow, but in theory you could make one that goes Mach 3+ and is capable of insane dogfighting maneuvers
02:26:54 <kmc> because you don't have to worry about killing a human with acceleration
02:26:58 <kmc> anyway that would be cool
02:27:09 <kmc> probably not that useful in combat
02:27:48 <copumpkin> how often do we actually dogfight these days
02:28:08 <Bike> approximately never
02:28:17 <copumpkin> main goal of those big-ass fighters is to stroke powerful generals' manliness boners
02:28:24 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUE-cTsaK6g
02:28:31 <kmc> well they are mostly fighter-bombers these days
02:28:49 <Bike> so you can shoot down a dozen migs as you bomb those SAM sites
02:29:25 <kmc> tangos on your six
02:30:35 <shachaf> kmc: that's a promotional video for a computer game right
02:30:53 <Bike> well Modern Warfare is a computer game
02:31:11 <copumpkin> I've always wanted attrition tolerance
02:31:14 <Bike> i wonder if they're actually worried about ballistic missile launchers like that
02:31:34 <copumpkin> now this is a real wartime maneuver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOaGhE_sejI
02:31:35 <kmc> Bike: I think so
02:32:02 <Bike> in syria the weapons mostly seem to be completely psychotic, like slingshots, air-to-air missiles being used as ground artillery, or something called a "hell cannon" which is apparently made out of a tractor and a lack of safety
02:32:10 <kmc> and trebuchets
02:33:05 <Bike> copumpkin: fantastic.
02:33:14 <kmc> weapons of the 21st century: twitter, windows viruses, trebuchets
02:33:54 <Bike> i read an interview with some islamic militia guys today and they mentioned that theyw ere missing various body parts, from unsafe weapons assembly rather than combat
02:34:43 <Bike> copumpkin: also i can't see that game without thinking of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h62DArOGbj8
02:34:53 <Bike> possibly because i haven't played it and only know about games from the tubes.
02:35:44 <kmc> i guess those are S-300 ballistic missile systems
02:36:08 <kmc> er no that's a SAM not a ballistic missile
02:36:45 <Bike> oh, those were the ones a russian 747 supposely got shot by
02:36:54 <Bike> russian... whatever. passenger plane
02:36:56 <Bike> fuck technology
02:37:15 <kmc> S-400 Triumf
02:37:34 <shachaf> that video has good youtube comments
02:38:36 <Bike> also see "very fun", for a few jihad jeeps
02:43:02 <Bike> and uh jihad jets
02:43:38 <Sgeo_> Bashir can be DUMB sometimes
02:44:17 <Bike> thanks for that being some nerd thing and not bashar
02:47:03 <kmc> what if i run out of rum
02:47:47 <shachaf> if i like rum raisin ice cream will i like rum
02:48:53 <kmc> probably not
02:52:56 <copumpkin> of the various boozes, rum is not my favorite
02:53:17 <kmc> drinking rum and ginger ale atm
02:53:41 <shachaf> What's copumpkin's favourite?
02:54:08 <copumpkin> well in the past couple of years, my gf's parent try to emboozen me when I go visit
02:54:28 <copumpkin> two chinese liquors that are strong and interesting in my opinion
02:54:39 <copumpkin> wuliangye in particular is very good
02:54:47 <copumpkin> otherwise, I don't mind tequila too much
03:38:49 <kmc> current status: playing SimTower in Wine in Xephyr
03:39:01 <kmc> amazingly SimTower doesn't play well with Xmonad
03:39:31 <shachaf> kmc: You should make kmcwm!
03:40:48 <kmc> Wm. Callister
03:41:08 <kmc> my WM will have a special mode for SimTower
03:42:16 <shachaf> are you talking about that windows 95 allocator thing
03:45:17 <kmc> welp it crashes when i try to save
04:20:25 -!- kmc has set topic: Too weird to live, and too rare to die. | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | I vote TYHJÄ..
04:24:53 <kmc> TYHJÄ. means "EMPTY."?
04:25:20 <Sgeo_> Maybe instead of uploading to youtube
04:25:25 <Sgeo_> I could play with icecast a little bit
04:25:56 <Sgeo_> Hmm, it's mp3 streaming?
04:29:24 <kmc> hmmmmmmmmm do i have any kimchi
04:29:30 * Sgeo_ wonders if it would be possible to have fluidsynth directly output to icecast, or whether I need files
04:30:15 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Ramyun so good
04:31:47 <kmc> eighth heavenly stem
04:35:15 <Sgeo_> fluidsynth: warning: Ignoring sample *KPianoB5: can't use ROM samples
04:44:11 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to dog.
04:44:23 -!- dog has changed nick to copumpkin.
04:48:44 <kmc> rum status: demolished
04:49:23 <shachaf> kmc is victorious once again
04:52:17 <kmc> he who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
05:02:11 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/user/danooct1/videos fantastic.
05:53:54 -!- mnoqy has joined.
05:54:17 <HackEgo> MnOqY: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
05:54:40 <shachaf> mnoqy: you bet everything on hi, don't you
05:55:06 <shachaf> learn some other greetings
05:58:25 <mnoqy> i also know "hey" but i m not so good with "sup"
05:59:07 <shachaf> sup isn't a greeting mnoqy
05:59:12 <shachaf> it's a command to someone to eat supper
05:59:24 <shachaf> it's a good one to have "in your vocabulary" but not a greeting
05:59:33 <mnoqy> shachaf i dont think you ve been around people very much
05:59:52 * shachaf . o O ( <shachaf> yes i have! )
06:00:19 <mnoqy> im also not a "how you doing??" or "howdy" guy
06:00:56 <shachaf> (THAT'S A SUPER MEGA COMICS THING BTW REMEMBER WHEN ALLY DID THAT IT WAS GR8)
06:01:13 <shachaf> mnoqy: those are both questions mnoqy. you only say them when you want to know how someone is doing
06:01:43 <mnoqy> there's also the problem where "sup" means "what's up???"
06:02:05 <shachaf> uh, no, that's "'sup" with ' get it right
06:02:27 <shachaf> but here are some other good greetings:
06:03:16 <shachaf> wait, i think "salutations" is a fruit
06:03:44 <mnoqy> i might be able to get into "greetings".....not "ahoy"...............not "tomato"..."salutations" is a bit awkward..................im not an "hola" or "aloha" guy
06:05:41 <shachaf> mnoqy: but what about "holachaf"
06:05:50 <mnoqy> not everyone is shachaf, shachaf
06:06:11 <mnoqy> shachaf i dont think you ve been around people very much
06:06:24 <shachaf> mnoqy i've been around all people
06:06:38 <shachaf> btw i don t think you ve been around people very much either
06:07:00 <shachaf> "how does that feel, a taste of your own people medicine"
06:09:18 -!- comex has changed nick to TwilightSparkle.
06:09:29 -!- TwilightSparkle has changed nick to TwilightSparkle_.
06:24:56 <shachaf> TwilightSparkle_: I thought that was Gregor's nick!
06:26:01 <shachaf> Oh, it's a character from that show.
06:26:05 -!- TwilightSparkle_ has changed nick to comex.
06:33:52 <kmc> this is a strange channel w/ strange people
06:34:02 <kmc> it's why i feel so comfortable here <3
06:39:30 <fizzie> People are strange when you're a stranger.
06:40:17 <fizzie> A brown bird has made a nest on our window sill.
06:40:37 <shachaf> Don't be a stranger, fizzie.
06:42:22 <kmc> i like birds
06:42:26 <kmc> do you know what kind it is
06:43:41 <Sgeo_> I wonder if I'd react to hearing 'Sgeo' IRL the same way I react to hearing '<my name>' IRL
06:44:56 <kmc> i don't know your "irl name"
06:45:05 <kmc> i know "irl names" for........ shachaf and Taneb
06:45:19 <kmc> elliott hird?
06:45:29 <shachaf> unless that's not the real name..............
06:45:36 <kmc> hird's not unix
06:45:59 <shachaf> mnoqy: is William Parker an actual name.....
06:47:30 <Bike> one time i called a guy i knew from real life but also online by his handle in public. how embarssing
06:47:47 <kmc> at MIT it is v. common to call people by their Athena usernames
06:47:57 <kmc> even among non-computery people
06:48:01 <Bike> yeah but i wasn't at MIT, see.
06:48:34 <shachaf> Bike has a billion usernames
06:48:41 <kmc> em eye tea
06:49:03 <kmc> do any of you know about long-distance moving
06:49:13 <kmc> i think i should use such as pods.com or doortodoor.com
06:49:23 <kmc> pack up my stuff, send it to storage, then i can call for it when I find a new apt
06:49:25 <shachaf> or is that too long distance
06:49:28 <kmc> shachaf: that is a long distance
06:49:34 <kmc> did you have stuff to be moved
06:49:58 <kmc> did you like living in .il
06:50:12 <shachaf> i tend to like living in general
06:50:45 <kmc> does thov love life? then do not sqvander time
06:58:42 <fizzie> But I took a picture of it.
06:59:02 <fizzie> Er, well, okay, I'll get it out of the camera.
07:02:26 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130525-birdie.jpg
07:05:03 <kmc> hm, i don't know what kind of bird that is
07:05:27 <fizzie> I have a "Finland's birds" multimedia CD-ROM thing, maybe that'd know.
07:05:47 <fizzie> (I'm called "fizzie" quite a lot in public, e.g. by my wife's family, even though they don't do IRC.)
07:06:04 <shachaf> Is it pronounced Finnishly?
07:07:13 <kmc> fizzie: huh.
07:07:19 <kmc> also you're married? cool
07:07:36 <fizzie> I'm not sure I can say. If you type "fizzie" into translate.google.com, set source language to Finnish, and click on the speaker icon, what comes out sounds pretty close to a natural Finnish pronounciation of it.
07:08:02 <fizzie> (I think they've improved the Finnish synthesis recently, it used to be kinda bad.)
07:08:26 <shachaf> That's what I was thinking except for the zz turning into tss or so.
07:08:48 <shachaf> finnish pronunciation is so good
07:08:49 <fizzie> We don't have a native voiced 'z', which probably explains that.
07:10:36 <fizzie> Also we think it might be a female blackbird of some subspecies or another, some of those pictures look pretty similar to it.
07:10:57 <fizzie> "It is also called Eurasian Blackbird (especially in North America, to distinguish it from the unrelated New World blackbirds) --" I mean that kind of blackbird.
07:11:16 <fizzie> (There's certainly enough of those around here.)
07:11:55 <fizzie> (Apparently it's only the males that are black.)
07:16:25 <Sgeo_> :( my intrusive thoughts are now actually blocking out normal, unrelated thoughts
07:16:31 <Sgeo_> This is kind of scar
07:16:44 <kmc> that's bad
07:16:55 <kmc> is it from not sleeping?
07:17:25 <Sgeo_> I've been getting some sleep each night, but possibly not enough
07:19:06 <Sgeo_> Maybe 5 hours a night
07:19:55 <kmc> that's not enough, long term
07:20:14 <Sgeo_> Going to get some sleep this weekend
07:20:27 <Sgeo_> And maybe try to find dinner foods that are faster to prepare/consume
07:22:44 <Bike> http://mchankins.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/still-not-significant-2/ fucking fantastic
07:27:12 <shachaf> mnoqy: do you know any cofree things
07:27:25 <shachaf> mnoqy: in haskell (or othe rplaces i gues.....)
07:28:34 <mnoqy> not really no..........is there a formulation in terms of adjunctions like with free things because imo thats the nicest formulation of free things its so great
07:29:05 <shachaf> cofree means right adjoint to a forgetful functor
07:29:13 <shachaf> just like free means left adjoint to a forgetful functor
07:29:26 <shachaf> i don't even know any other formulations.....help
07:29:41 <Bike> "dual of free"
07:30:06 <mnoqy> well theres an "easy" formulation if you take the adjunctiony version and write it out explicitly
07:30:38 <shachaf> well i meant something that would give me a bit of insight........................i don t kno w
07:31:16 <shachaf> anyway what are some cofree things
07:31:21 <shachaf> what does cofree "truly mean"
07:31:31 <shachaf> cofree comonads are one thing what are other things
07:32:43 <mnoqy> i hear cofree coalgebras are a thing
07:33:38 <kmc> i like mushrooms
07:34:05 <shachaf> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bIPdYcq3LMw/T9hPOeF63YI/AAAAAAAADxg/NUByztXqJPI/s1600/IMG_9778.jpg
07:34:45 <shachaf> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/149890243_d06208bb80.jpg
07:35:41 <shachaf> You know how you look for a picture with Google Images and you spend the extra effort to find a picture that doesn't say what it is in the URL so that people have to go to it?
07:46:34 <Jafet> http://imgur.com/rQZPg0R.jpg
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08:32:15 <kmc> i am become death, the destroyer of rum
08:32:54 <shachaf> did you destroy some more rum
08:33:01 <shachaf> haven't you had enough rumdestruction for one day
08:33:06 <kmc> i destroyed all the rum in the house
08:33:22 <kmc> tomorrow never knows
08:41:04 -!- Taneb has joined.
08:43:12 <fizzie> Went as predicted yesterday: didn't get in. (Plus I think I remembered the PIN code halfway on the way back, to add insult to injury.)
08:56:54 <Taneb> shachaf, was that triplicate welling connected with my decision to learn Agda?
08:57:29 <shachaf> You've decided to learn Agda?
08:57:40 <shachaf> You should teach me when you're done.
08:57:48 <Taneb> Yeah, that's why I mentioned it in #haskell and you responded
08:58:05 <Taneb> Is the #haskell shachaf a different shachaf to the #esoteric shachaf?
08:58:25 <shachaf> I was just greeting you in here.
08:58:31 <shachaf> I'm not sure if they're different.
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10:28:07 <HackEgo> 531) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 572) <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 606) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's no
10:28:15 <lambdabot> shachaf says: SIKP, the cheap knockoff book that uses the less-known programming language "skeem"
10:28:29 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough.
10:28:41 <Jafet> Is GNU tar turing-complete?
10:29:03 <lambdabot> Jafet says: unsafeCoerce takes any argument. AND IT WINS THAT ARGUMENT.
10:29:10 <HackEgo> 812) <Jafet> I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX \ 837) <Jafet> The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt \ 940) <Sgeo> This position is asking for "- Extensive experience with API" <Jafet> You're just not qualified, kid. \ 1033) <Jafet> Is there a debian package
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10:58:46 <shachaf> mnoqy: any progress on becoming a huggier person
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11:12:53 <shachaf> mnoqy: maybe start by hugging some trees
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12:53:50 <fizzie> You can start becoming a huger person by eating some trees.
12:59:28 <mnoqy> imo you'd have to be pretty huge already to eat a tree
13:01:39 <Taneb> mnoqy, what do you think bonsai is for
13:02:01 <Taneb> Eating bonsai trees is the first step on the path to being a huger person
13:18:29 <cpressey> ANNOUNCEMENT ANNOUNCEMENT http://catseye.tc/wsj.html PLEASE READ as it concerns #esoteric THIS MEANS YOU yes you there reading the logs, i'm talking to you
13:22:26 <fizzie> I like the zzo38 reference. A zzo38 review in the WSJ would be especially surreal.
13:22:52 <fizzie> Possibly his conditions would be even more bizarre, though.
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13:23:54 <Taneb> The... Wall Street Journal?
13:26:53 <Taneb> By WWF do you mean the pandas or the wrestlers
13:27:39 <fizzie> Unexpected bonus point: speech recognizers will perhaps start to understand esolangs better. (WSJ is a popular corpus.)
13:29:40 <Lumpio-> my head a splode of the thought
13:30:59 <cpressey> Taneb: I meant professional wrestling but... yeah, i'm out of touch, didn't they have to reacronymize it or something... i'll go look
13:31:09 <Taneb> Yeah, it's WWE now
13:44:03 <cpressey> zzo38 + wsj = all kinds of awesome but it's difficult contacting him on short notice (though i do notice he's started a gopherized mirror of StackOverflow... fascinating.) has he dropped by here recently?
13:44:39 <HackEgo> 2013-05-21 04:58:13: <zzo38> Does GCC have a mode to avoid warnings related to redundancy if they are made up by macros?
13:45:01 <Taneb> cpressey, was HackEgo here when you were around last?
13:46:08 <cpressey> Taneb: yes, and EgoBot too, and lambdabot was in negotiations for being in here
13:46:18 <cpressey> but i never remember what they're capable of
13:46:20 <Taneb> lambdabot has been here a while now
13:46:33 <Taneb> EgoBot has a whole load of esoteric language interpreters
13:46:52 <Taneb> HackEgo is pretty much a Linux computer with access to the channel's logs
13:47:07 <Taneb> And lambdabot is for doing Haskell stuff, mainly
13:47:22 <Taneb> Have you seen fungot?
13:47:22 <fungot> Taneb: formatting and weight-balanced trees). x would reduce to 0
13:47:39 <HackEgo> 108) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. <cpressey> To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. \ 117) <ais523> cpressey: I have actually done a waterfall-model project that almost worked <cpressey> That's where you have a flexible kayak that bobs and weaves between the rocks as it p
13:48:02 <Taneb> `pastequotes cpressey
13:48:09 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29632
13:49:21 <Taneb> `pastequotes Taneb
13:49:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25328
13:50:33 <Taneb> ...I really do say a lot of stupid things
13:51:50 <fizzie> fungot: Have you seen cpressey?
13:51:51 <fungot> fizzie: pretty interesting. will go there now. shopping
13:52:09 <Taneb> `pastequotes Ngevd
13:52:14 <Taneb> `pastequotes atriq
13:52:15 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3268
13:52:18 <Taneb> They are also me :(
13:52:20 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8841
13:53:28 <Taneb> Have /all/ the atriq quotes been deleted?
13:53:38 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq.
13:53:44 <atriq> Time to say some stupid things!
13:55:40 <cpressey> I even had a bot in here sporadically once. Oh, it was terrible. Actually, there were two of them. One was written in Lua and the other one was written in R.
13:55:54 <atriq> I once wrote a bot in Piet
13:56:07 <atriq> On a good day, it managed to connect
13:56:13 <fizzie> This is a channel of bots.
13:56:20 <cpressey> just barfed lines and coloured rectangles around, hey?
13:59:40 <elliott> nice I made a 2 omg profit
14:00:12 <elliott> no wonder you can't renew your domains, giving away your wealth so freely
14:00:48 <cpressey> you hit the patch where it "expired on Jan 1 1970" did you
14:02:40 <cpressey> some kind of imbroglio between my registrar and the .tc bosses... i still don't know the full story
14:02:41 <cpressey> it's back up now, though, and you should read this: http://catseye.tc/wsj.html
14:03:02 <elliott> my agents dutifully notified me of this link yes
14:05:02 <elliott> update: i got as far as "It should be held on IRC" before laughing
14:09:06 <elliott> don't WSJ have a lot of web-only blogspammy type stuff nowadays? i can't quite imagine an article on esolangs actually ending up in the print version
14:10:04 <mnoqy> i can only imagine it's a hoax or they don't know what they're doing sooo
14:10:19 <elliott> well obviously they don't know what they're doing
14:10:27 <elliott> but how much do they not know what they're doing
14:10:48 <cpressey> i assume the blogspammy stuff <-> they don't quite know what they're doing
14:11:06 <cpressey> my unicode-fu for bi-implication symbol fails me
14:11:12 <atriq> If I had a news thingy, I would totally interview all the obscure microcultures I could
14:11:49 <elliott> cpressey: i was getting all ready to show off my compose key powers but then i ended up with ←>
14:12:04 <elliott> a lovably pathetic rendition
14:14:04 <cpressey> i was actually reading HN regularly for a while there a few months ago. from context, i gather the interest is an indirect byproduct of "President Obama says Everyone Must Learn to Code"
14:14:39 <elliott> truly, nobody has done more for the esolangs community than obama
14:15:01 <mnoqy> so how deep-rooted is this cluelessness
14:17:08 <cpressey> i hesitate to make an estimate
14:17:24 <elliott> cpressey: so you *are* going to tell them that your IRC nick is "fungot", right
14:17:25 <fungot> elliott: i launch it via the help menus since the help thinks the program in such a way as to integrate properly with multithreading in scheme48.
14:22:41 <elliott> disappointing: no WSJ emails in my spam box
14:23:59 <cpressey> mnoqy: here's an estimate: will.i.am, Chris Bosh, Ashton Kucher, Snoop Dogg, Enrique Iglesias. http://www.code.org/
14:24:51 <cpressey> also Hilary Mason, Data Scientist, believes technology should give us all superpowers hth
14:25:30 <elliott> you've picked up the hth thing already?
14:25:46 <mnoqy> this has to be a joke right
14:26:49 <mnoqy> better teach the kids brainfuck i guess
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14:28:57 <elliott> cpressey: have you been updated on all the other hilarious #esoteric memes, like monoids jokes, and uhhh mnoqy what else has there been
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14:30:01 <cpressey> "Waiter, there's a monoid in my soup!" you mean like that?
14:30:39 <elliott> you can then substitute other things in place of "monoids", refer to things being easy by calling them "monoidal", etc.; for more information ask shachaf hth
14:30:56 <elliott> or zzo. he might have a more enlightening perspective
14:32:06 <mnoqy> hm what else is there
14:32:38 <elliott> mnoqy: was cpressey around for the whole "hi monqy" thing? i forget completely
14:32:55 <elliott> starting to seem like this channel has to be the least funny place in the universe
14:32:56 <mnoqy> i think i;ve only seen cpressey in here once before so probably not
14:33:32 <atriq> There was the "itidus learns lambda calculus" stuff
14:34:15 <elliott> i think cpressey would have liked itidus
14:34:53 <atriq> There's Phantom_Hoover's Tumblr
14:34:58 <mnoqy> was cpressey around when shachaf was Really Weird? that has to be a joke
14:35:10 <atriq> Is that an #esoteric joke?
14:35:37 <cpressey> I don't recall any of these nicks with any certainty: itidus, mnoqy, atriq
14:35:57 <elliott> you've missed out on so much *exciting culture*
14:36:06 <atriq> cpressey, itidus20/21 was a regular on here for a bit
14:36:23 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13621
14:36:25 <atriq> He would share details of his life and ideas he had, which were all really crazy
14:36:28 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3154
14:36:36 <atriq> And he really struggled with learning lambda calculus
14:36:51 <cpressey> i asked Phantom_Hoover yesterday if i should be reading his tumblr but he mightve missed that. i searched, but found no tumblr that i could identify as his, unless he's all into cosplay now or something
14:37:02 <atriq> I'm Taneb, and also Ngevd, I think you left just as I arrived
14:37:09 <atriq> cpressey, phantom-hoover.tumblr.com
14:37:27 <cpressey> trust a web search for "phantom hoover tumblr" to miss that
14:37:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10952
14:37:53 <atriq> Phantom_Hoover doesn't update his Tumblr very often
14:38:04 <atriq> 2010-09-06.txt:20:41:21: <cpressey> hi Taneb
14:38:05 <elliott> has phantom_hoover ever updated his tumblr
14:38:15 <cpressey> '“Brainfuck$”. Kill me now.' yep, that's PH
14:38:31 <atriq> elliott, shall I tell cpressey the secret?
14:38:51 <atriq> That Taneb can't have been me
14:38:54 <elliott> i dunno this is pretty great
14:39:33 <cpressey> atriq: were you Ngevd before Taneb? I *may* have a fuzzy recollection of that nick
14:40:15 <cpressey> hm, ok... they all look the same after a while anyway letterslettersletters
14:40:31 <atriq> It went Taneb -> Ngevd -> atriq -> Taneb (roughly)
14:41:39 <elliott> maybe ZOMGMODULES was around at the same time as Ngevd
14:42:22 <cpressey> cpressey = cpressey/catseye/ZOMGMODULES and (exceedingly rarely) DrNinja
14:42:28 <cpressey> bbiab, i have to run to the store
14:53:46 <elliott> cpressey: also, i looked at your github when your site broke in case you'd done a _why and found toolshelf and wondered if you knew of GNU™ Stow™ or Nix which do similar things (Stow in particular) and are both "cross-platform" (although Stow is lighter-weight for that)
14:56:05 <elliott> there is also XStow with more X
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15:18:17 <cpressey> elliott: no, i did not know of stow is it really trademarked
15:18:55 <cpressey> i'd'a thought you'd maybe be more pleased that i forked yaedit for my own awful purposes
15:19:03 <cpressey> since i have you to blame for knowing about it
15:19:11 <elliott> oh I didn't even notice that
15:19:50 <elliott> cpressey: speaking of _why did you see his new printer spool/book???
15:20:35 <cpressey> i have not actually seen the end result of it, but yes, i saw it... transpire
15:21:18 <cpressey> i was reading HN regularly at that point, you see
15:21:28 <elliott> the book is very good. https://github.com/steveklabnik/CLOSURE has all the stuff in a less printer-requiring format if you're ever interested
15:21:35 <elliott> cpressey: my condolences on that matter, also
15:22:05 <cpressey> thank you. it was quite traumatizing.
15:22:44 <elliott> cpressey: oh i literally just now remembered i saw the github issue!
15:23:06 <cpressey> yeah don't tell anyone about my secret career as a rap artist ok?
15:23:44 <elliott> your secret is safe with me, everyone in this channel, and WSJ journalists who look at the logs
15:23:53 <cpressey> i actually think that was three months of HN-reading blowing off in an oblique was
15:24:49 <cpressey> so what's this secret atriq wanted to tell me?
15:25:13 <elliott> are you sure you want to know? it might "ruin the magic"!!
15:25:25 <mnoqy> did somebody say secret
15:25:28 <cpressey> i have to imagine it's pretty monoidal (am i doing it right??)
15:27:49 <elliott> cpressey: so how is befunge-113 [laugh track]
15:28:08 <cpressey> oh now i remember, i was going to read CLOSURE.pdf except us/them had bw/traffic issues and i never got around to it
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15:29:22 <elliott> esolangs.org is a parked page
15:29:46 <elliott> guess i get to send an email off
15:29:49 <cpressey> yeah, ok, 20 year anniversary, ha ha, yeah, well, poo, i'm probably semi-retired at this point
15:30:09 <elliott> wow jeez befunge is 20 years old
15:30:56 <elliott> ok so the good news: esolangs.org is still owned by the person it's meant to be owned by
15:31:41 <elliott> and in the auto-renew period or something?
15:31:57 <elliott> cpressey is this your revenge for me mentioning befunge
15:33:19 <cpressey> please say it expired on Jan 1 1970
15:33:57 <elliott> apparently 24-May-2014 19:21:16 UTC
15:34:00 <cpressey> then i can surmise some kind of miasma-transference from my own domain-name-stability-curse
15:34:03 <elliott> which is close enough to 1970, geologically speaking
15:34:40 <elliott> oh god, every time I go to send an email I'm reminded of gmail's awful new compose interface
15:35:37 <cpressey> mm, have you run into the "you sent it but it's still a draft too" bug yet?
15:35:40 <elliott> i refuse to believe there is a single reason to make it a tiny little window in the bottom-right of the screen
15:37:17 <cpressey> well, you could always complain to Google, i hear their customer service is par none
15:38:33 <elliott> but complaining to #esoteric is so much more satisfying!
15:41:06 <cpressey> actually i'm not sure "par none" is any kind of recognizable english idiom but CLOSURE.pdf is taking all my bandwidth so i can't ask the internet what it thinks about it
15:41:42 <lambdabot> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2451
15:41:48 <elliott> the solution is to piggy-back off IRC, naturally
15:41:52 <elliott> `fetch http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2451
15:41:56 <HackEgo> 2013-05-25 15:41:55 URL:http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2451 [86807] -> "index.html?p=2451" [1]
15:42:05 <elliott> `run w3m -dump 'index.html?p=2451'
15:42:06 <HackEgo> bash: w3m: command not found
15:42:25 <elliott> `run lynx -dump 'index.html?p=2451'
15:42:27 <HackEgo> \ Configuration file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.cfg" is not available.
15:42:48 <Jafet> You should only irc on irc.
15:43:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: apparently it is a mangling of "bar none"
15:43:35 <cpressey> that's ok i can just imagine its a page on common misuse of english which explains it's probably a mix of "bar none" and "par excellence"
15:43:51 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: hi you are involved in the conversation now
15:44:16 <elliott> by Phantom_Hoover i meant cpressey
15:44:25 <elliott> but i guess Phantom_Hoover can tell cpressey the secret of his tumblr now!
15:44:44 <elliott> cpressey: well it's actually a language log post
15:44:54 <elliott> `run rm 'index.html?p=2451'
15:45:11 <Phantom_Hoover> @tell Taneb I want to RIP OUT MY OWN PANCREAS for writing 'exersize' on my tumblr
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15:46:22 <elliott> on the contrary, i think he just said it all
15:46:24 <cpressey> unless, uh, that 'exersize' thing was it
15:46:54 <elliott> man, you also missed so many bans! even PH was banned! missing. out.
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15:48:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: was that a dramatic /quit
15:48:27 <Sgeo_> Sam Hughes made boolfuck?
15:48:39 <Phantom_Hoover> i was going to pull my own pancreas out but then i had a moment of self-doubt
15:48:56 <elliott> PH, I can assure you that nobody here would miss your pancreas
15:48:59 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought, "was i really myself when i made that misspelling"
15:49:36 <Sgeo_> elliott, esolangs.org does not seem to be pointing to the wiki
15:50:17 <elliott> Sgeo_: i had to sell it to godaddy for drug money
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15:52:28 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: http://catseye.tc/wsj.html you should read if you haven't
15:53:14 <Sgeo_> I think people were recently talking about some language whose pages were down
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15:54:12 <cpressey> if it was on my site then it was but should no longer be
15:54:34 <cpressey> and now the problem has quantum-tunneled to esolangs.org
15:54:58 <elliott> does anyone know how domain transfers work
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15:55:52 <cpressey> in theory, you get some kind of code from registrar #1, then you ask registrar #2 to transfer the domain to themselves, and you give them the code
15:55:58 <cpressey> as for the technicals i haven't the foggiest
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15:56:57 <elliott> well we will see what the domain owner sez
15:57:30 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: what did you do to get banned?
15:58:25 <elliott> i may have slightly exaggerated the duration of the ban by omission
16:02:14 <elliott> cpressey: also i think i liked, uh, that new language of yours
16:02:49 <Koen_> "I'm sure you know which language I'm talking about. I don't."
16:08:38 <cpressey> I have a backlog of languages stuck in a "i can't call this finished and i can't finish it" state. the last one I finished was called... heh i don't remember. one sec
16:09:12 <cpressey> "Exanoke" which was an honest typo for "example" that i held onto
16:09:36 <cpressey> not terribly terribly interesting but kind of cute if you like primitive recursion
16:10:39 <cpressey> since then i've been coding in JS in an attempt to... make shitty HTML5 implementations of esolangs
16:11:01 <elliott> I could mumble some things about type theory and eliminators and catamorphisms and structural recursion and higher-order Ackermann and what not, but they would be mumbly
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16:15:24 <elliott> oh hey, esolangs.org fixed itself.
16:17:25 <elliott> I wonder how you have to restrict eliminators to get strict primitive recursion...
16:18:41 <elliott> this is reminding me of the fact that there are functions that grow slower than any computable function and that scares me :(
16:19:02 <cpressey> none of that mumbly catamorphism stuff would apply to http://catseye.tc/node/Cyclobots%20%28HTML5%29.html -- you'd have to ask oklopol to do gnarly symbolic dynamics things to answer questions like why does it always fall into a cloverleaf pattern and can you predict how many "leaves" it'll have
16:19:29 <cpressey> i... assume they are... uncomputable
16:20:34 <elliott> cpressey: because imagine 1 - 1/BusyBeaver(x) or whatever
16:20:37 -!- Taneb has joined.
16:22:09 <cpressey> well yes. what's that quote by von Neumann? "In mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them."
16:22:12 <elliott> cpressey: that cyclobots thing (which in fact I had seen before) reminds me of boids
16:23:05 <cpressey> gah, you always know about one more thing
16:24:57 <cpressey> you're the inductive step of things
16:25:05 <elliott> if it's any consolation I don't even know boids's rules!
16:25:20 <elliott> cpressey: bringing it back round to structural recursion!!!
16:27:55 <cpressey> trying to make some kind of fixpoint joke out of that but my head is starting to hurt
16:28:07 <Sgeo_> What is this cyclobots thing?
16:28:26 <elliott> there is an about button in the corner
16:28:48 <elliott> alt. cpressey's memetic transfer device that he's using to control us all
16:28:51 <cpressey> which should probably be more informative, but there's a link to the main entry from it
16:29:26 <Sgeo_> They've made a figure 8
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16:31:03 <elliott> cpressey: so was befunge originally implemented in visual basic??
16:31:15 -!- alejandra has left.
16:31:27 <elliott> yeah, take that, alejandra
16:32:22 <cpressey> elliott: no, befunge was C from the start -- it's from the amiga era
16:33:18 <cpressey> goes without saying, but i'll say it anyway: i only started doing anything in VB after I got a Windows PC
16:33:33 <elliott> visual basic for the amiga sounds exciting
16:33:44 <Koen_> how long am I allowed to stare at the cyclobots?
16:33:47 <elliott> cpressey: my first PC was windows 3.1 too!! megacorp product buddies
16:33:58 <elliott> did you ever write anything in Wouter's E?
16:34:51 <Taneb> elliott, how the hell was your first PC Windows 3.1? I swear you were only born in '95
16:34:56 <cpressey> Koen_: until you successfully absorb the hypnomessage to transfer all your bitcoins to me
16:35:16 <Koen_> eh, I don't even know what a bitcoin is
16:35:17 <elliott> Taneb: my parents were poor
16:35:39 <Taneb> My first PC is right here, and it has Windows 98 SE installed
16:35:39 <cpressey> Koen_: damn. ok, stare as long as you like then :)
16:35:59 <Sgeo_> I don't know if I ever used 3.1
16:36:04 <Sgeo_> I've used DOS definitely
16:36:05 <Koen_> I was expecting the cyclobots would eventually collapse but those are apparently making a larger and larger shape
16:36:16 <elliott> i have some fraction of a bitcoin but i have no idea where it is so i cannot help make cpressey bitrich
16:36:20 <Sgeo_> There was one game in particular for DOS that I remember
16:36:56 <kmc> someone at MIT or CMU should start a rumor about a Bitcoin club that mined 10,000 Bitcoins two years ago and stashed them in a hidden location on campus
16:37:55 <Sgeo_> "mining Bitcoins" reminds me of BYONDimes
16:38:03 <kmc> what is that
16:38:48 <Sgeo_> Micropayment thing that used to be used by BYOND
16:38:50 <Koen_> how do they choose who to follow? I thought it was random but they appear to always end a making a perfect cycle
16:39:06 <Sgeo_> Could have sworn they had a [fictional] backstory
16:43:13 <Sgeo_> "What are BYONDimes? How do I get them?
16:43:14 <Sgeo_> BYONDimes were part of an e-commerce system that was built into BYOND. Unfortunately we had to remove the system because of widespread abuse."
16:43:21 <Sgeo_> I still want to find their backstory dammit
16:44:27 <elliott> I like this APL implementation of Deadfish. cpressey has been one-upped
16:44:41 <kmc> 'Unfortunately we had to remove the system because of widespread abuse.'
16:44:46 <kmc> who could have possibly predicted this
16:45:19 <cpressey> Koen_: they choose randomly, once, at the start (or when you click Revolution) and it, well, decays into a cycle
16:46:17 <Koen_> yeah but I mean it's not completely random, it's already a cycle when the choose
16:46:35 <Koen_> there are no two bots choosing the same bot to follow, or no independant cycles
16:46:41 <cpressey> well it's a shuffle (like a deck of cards) if that's what you mean, yes
16:47:02 <Koen_> I didn't realize it was so simple
16:47:10 <kmc> what are you playing with?
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16:50:06 <elliott> kmc: http://catseye.tc/node/Cyclobots%20%28HTML5%29.html
16:50:16 <elliott> cpressey: btw these space-filled URLs...
16:52:32 <kmc> so the graph of following is a cycle?
16:53:04 <cpressey> elliott: yeah yeah I'll... do something more mediawikiish at some point
16:53:54 <elliott> cpressey: ok listen. you have to promise me to never describe something positive as "mediawikiish" again
16:55:05 <kmc> now i want to see 100,000 cyclobots as a GPU particle system with bloom shader and such
16:55:06 <cpressey> elliott: understood. i regret how that came out myself.
16:55:31 <kmc> trails for sure
16:55:34 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: um... do you happen to be familiar with a very old comic strip called "Krazy Kat"?
16:59:58 <cpressey> probably nowhere. i just... it's the brick-braining theme.
17:00:27 <cpressey> cat loves mouse, mouse lives to hurl bricks at cat, who sees this as a sign of love in return.
17:00:51 <cpressey> dog loves cat, stops mouse from throwing bricks whenever possible.
17:01:25 <cpressey> you'd be surprised, it's actually a really good comic strip if you can tune into the circa-1919 sense of humour.
17:01:29 <elliott> "Poet E. E. Cummings, another Herriman admirer, wrote the introduction to the first collection of the strip in book form."
17:02:24 <Sgeo_> The author is dead. Along with billions (or more?) of people.
17:05:05 <cpressey> it was quite unexpected, anyway
17:07:26 <Sgeo_> "Even self-referential humor is evident in one strip, Offissa Pupp, having arrested Ignatz, berates Herriman for not having finished drawing the jailhouse."
17:07:44 <Sgeo_> cpressey, sorry, it's just a bit depressing realizing things like that
17:08:12 <Taneb> Remind me to never show Sgeo_ any Virgil or Ovid
17:08:17 <Koen_> definitely more than american billions
17:15:56 <kmc> also you could color the robots in hue order
17:16:03 <kmc> i'm sure you've thought about things like that
17:19:10 <Bike> ? where'd krazy kat come from
17:21:22 <Sgeo_> "I'm instead talking about simple instructions, burned onto physical media, for how to generate electricity, how to build a computer, how to build a router and how to reconstitute the Internet from basic principles."
17:21:59 <Sgeo_> Reconstituting a web browser from basic principles seems.... oh, hmm, I assume that all websites would be wiped too in such a scenario
17:22:11 <kmc> which scenario?
17:22:47 <Sgeo_> An end-of-the-Internet scenario, I guess
17:22:47 <Sgeo_> http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/tech/web/internet-down-eagleman
17:22:49 <cpressey> Bike: Phantom_Hoover's tumblr reminded me of it, what with all the brick-braining
17:23:06 <Sgeo_> Although I don't think any of the four scenarios mentioned lead to a loss of code
17:23:26 <kmc> interesting... i never thought about this
17:24:35 <kmc> it would be interesting to design a computer to be built 'from scratch' in a low-tech society
17:24:45 <Bike> ah yes gotta throw bricks
17:24:56 <kmc> you need a lot of industrial infrastructure to make integrated circuits
17:25:09 <kmc> discrete transistors less so, but still a lot
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17:25:58 <kmc> it's not just a matter of having learned some trick that now anyone can do in their backyard from what's lying around
17:27:26 <elliott> learn this one weird trick discovered by a semiconductor fabricator
17:27:41 <elliott> the circuit design secret intel DOESN'T want you to know
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17:28:08 <Sgeo_> Are vacuum tubes easy to build?
17:28:25 <elliott> ingredient 1. vacuum ingredient 2. tube
17:28:39 <Sgeo_> We just need to build a bootstrapping system, right? Or we need more than just 'a computer' to build discrete transistors and eventually ICs
17:28:43 <kmc> Texas Instruments HATES this one weird trick discovered by a Palo Alto teacher!
17:28:59 <kmc> i think elliott has it about right
17:29:04 <cpressey> i hate it when i accidentally put the vacuum onto the tube backwards
17:29:19 <kmc> i don't think you need super awesome tech to build vacuum tubes, but it's very labor intensive
17:29:35 <Sgeo_> I misparsed what elliott into being "vacuum ingredient" and "tube"
17:29:36 <Bike> Sgeo_: for ICs you'll need a lot of chemical fabrication equipment
17:29:44 <Bike> photolithography doesn't exactly jump out of vacuum tubes
17:29:47 <kmc> you also need a way to get pure crystals of semiconductor
17:30:21 <kmc> i'm not sure how much of an element of bootstrapping there is at this level, i.e. whether a vacuum tube computer is super useful for building a simple transistor computer
17:30:24 <kmc> i think not really
17:30:33 <elliott> underwater internet espionage
17:30:35 <kmc> of course if you want to design complicated CPUs you need computers to do it
17:30:52 <kmc> but not simple ones
17:31:21 <cpressey> y'know, i've never really looked into it, but if Konrad Zuse is to be believed, you *can* make 'em outta relays
17:31:47 <kmc> presumably it's OK if the post-apocalyptic internet is powered by in-order CPUs with 2 stage pipelines
17:31:50 <elliott> that's the funny thing about really smart people like Dr's and scientists, they know an insane amount about very SPECIFIC things, yet that crowds out the knowledge known as COMMON SENSE... no room left... lol...
17:31:56 <kmc> cpressey: yeah you definitely can
17:32:19 <kmc> a lot of early computers used a mix of relays and vacuum tubes, afaik
17:32:37 <kmc> relays are really slow, but more reliable than tubes, is I think the tradeoff
17:32:48 <elliott> sort of feel like if the internet is destroyed in such a way that you'd want instructions on how to rebuild it rather than just patching it back up again, then you are not going to be in a stable enough world to properly build the worldwide infrastructure you need for a proper *inter*net
17:32:54 <kmc> http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/
17:33:11 <Bike> i think if the internet was destroyed rebuilding it wouldn't be the main priority, yeah
17:33:52 <elliott> maybe the idea is that thousands of years later when things are less fucked up someone takes an interest in your Building The Internet In 24 Hours For Dummies stone tablet
17:33:52 <cpressey> kmc: cool, thanks. seems like it would be a lot easier to make relays "by hand" than the other options
17:34:10 <kmc> the article says "The Web appears to be the single most important technology that has ever been invented." and while that's sort of true, some kind of internetwork was inevitable given the more fundamental technologies
17:34:27 <kmc> and there were internetworks before the IP-based Internet of course
17:34:38 <cpressey> oh and relays would make a cool clicking noise too, bonus
17:34:43 <Bike> that contest is sort of dumb but i'd still go with fire >_>
17:34:44 <elliott> kind of feel like if something really incredibly apocalyptic happens we should just let them figure out technology themselves rather than telling them they have to do exactly the same things we did
17:34:44 <kmc> the really remarkable thing about the Internet is its relative openness
17:35:15 <Sgeo_> I get scared whenever anyone predicts the demise of PCs
17:35:18 <kmc> which isn't something you could guarantee by just writing down how it's built
17:35:27 <Sgeo_> I don't know of other open platforms...
17:35:32 <Bike> elliott: well it would still be nice to leave them some hints, you know? "pst, we tried the whole nuke thing but imo don't do that"
17:35:38 <Sgeo_> iPads are closed, Androids are closed, Chromebooks are closed
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17:36:04 <elliott> Bike: ok but... since when do we pay attention to Ancient Wisdom about Things You Should Not Do
17:36:16 <kmc> the Internet is so open largely because it was an obscure research project that got big overnight
17:36:18 <cpressey> i... if i were to make such a stone tablet i would only try to put mathematical proofs on it, is that weird?
17:36:22 <Bike> maybe if we drew some sweet pictures
17:36:34 <Bike> included a copy of Barefoot Gen or osme shit
17:36:37 <elliott> (except when those things are e.g. being gay)
17:36:58 <elliott> cpressey: because it's more universal?
17:37:05 <cpressey> i guess what i'm thinking is, i'd rather leave some sort of marker that says, "yes! there WAS an advanced civilization here once."
17:37:07 <kmc> if a future civilization was attempting to rebuild it, knowing what it had been, they would probably try to design all kinds of authoritarian control into it
17:37:15 <kmc> Sgeo_: yeah :/
17:37:23 <Taneb> Carve the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem into a rock.
17:37:27 <Taneb> A very large rock.
17:37:40 <elliott> cpressey: look on my proofs, ye mighty, and despair
17:37:42 <cpressey> it might take them a while to realize "damn! these are all the finite simple groups!" but, y'know
17:37:52 <Bike> well, going off of historical examples of apocalypses, of course one thing is that it's not generally a big simple event that kills everybody
17:37:54 <Sgeo_> Was cpressey ever in Agora?
17:37:57 <kmc> Sgeo_: Chromebooks are pretty open I think... https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoswikisite/home/what-s-new-in-dev-and-beta/developer-mode
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17:38:01 <Bike> the romans just sorta dispersed and became italians and such later
17:38:13 <Sgeo_> (I'm aware that the line in Agora is a reference to something else)
17:38:20 <Bike> and of course influenced the hell out of the northern european tribal fuckheads
17:38:32 <Bike> to the extent of some of said fuckheads later claiming to continue the roman empire
17:39:07 <Taneb> Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Russian Empire and British Empire have all claimed to be either the continuation of or a successor too
17:39:12 <kmc> Sgeo_: so they're closed by default, for user security, but there's a physical switch under the battery that makes them an open platform
17:39:14 <Bike> similar with the bronze age collapse (which still freaks me the hell out)
17:39:14 <Taneb> ... the Roman empire
17:39:20 <kmc> which is kind of a nice way to do things!
17:39:28 <elliott> Sgeo_: have you not read Ozymandias? it's short. http://www.rc.umd.edu/rchs/reader/ozymandias.html
17:39:41 <kmc> Sgeo_: some Android phones also have rooting as a supported operation
17:39:46 <kmc> at least some of the Google Nexus phones do
17:40:05 <kmc> and even without rooting, most Android phones will let you install non-app-store apps
17:40:10 <kmc> so it's relatively more open than iOS
17:40:13 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/704e80b7dc2df2c76b4951c6217b84bc/tumblr_mlyva0Gpvb1qi4onao1_500.png apocalypse doge
17:40:16 <cpressey> Sgeo_: I'm part of the Agora diaspora. Actually I'm not, I have no idea what y'all are talking about, it just seemed to fit the theme and sounded nice
17:40:30 <kmc> of course there are many parts of the system that you can't easily modify even from a rooted phone, e.g. the OS running on the baseband processor
17:40:36 <Sgeo_> http://agoranomic.org/
17:40:37 <kmc> but the same is true of a modern IBM PC compatible
17:40:47 <Bike> elliott: also ++ for "look on" not "look upon"
17:40:53 <kmc> not quite to the same degree though
17:41:30 <elliott> Bike: i wrote look upon at first but -- sorry -- googled to check my wording
17:42:00 <cpressey> Sgeo_: oh that Agora no i've never been
17:42:13 <kmc> Sgeo_: but I agree with the general concern that the openness of the IBM PC is a historical accident that won't be repeated
17:42:17 <cpressey> but i stand by what i said about being part of the diaspora anyway
17:42:52 <Bike> elliott: still
17:42:53 <kmc> http://hackaday.com/2012/01/16/the-tim-8-is-the-smallest-8-bit-relay-computer-ever/
17:43:27 <kmc> the program is stored on receipt paper :)
17:43:46 <elliott> Sgeo_ did you even click my link.............
17:43:48 <Bike> kmc: historically computers have been fairly closed things for large businesses/military-industrial, yeah? IBM bricolage computers sorta grew out of that, it wasn't like a fluke, was it?
17:44:23 <kmc> it's amusing that on some old systems, a jump instruction would take time proportional to the distance jumped
17:44:37 <kmc> e.g. on drum memory, as famously recounted in The Story of Mel
17:45:06 <kmc> Bike: I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I think the PC was a pretty atypical project within IBM
17:45:33 <Bike> well i don't know about the history of computers to that extent, i'm just wondering how atypical personal computers really are
17:45:36 <kmc> i don't think they put up with third party hw clones for most of their products
17:46:12 <elliott> there were systems more "open" to the programmer than IBM PC
17:46:13 <kmc> "In a crucial concession, IBM's agreement allowed Microsoft to sell its own version, MS-DOS, for non-IBM computers."
17:46:17 <elliott> even if less "open" in terms of clones
17:46:24 <elliott> DOS doesn't compare to a BASIC prompt
17:46:39 <kmc> but what about BASICA!!
17:46:51 <kmc> and QBASIC of course
17:47:12 <Bike> "Once every thirteen years, the population of Finland begins sporing. New Finns emerge from the Earth, fully-formed, in the middle of this nationwide combination mating ritual and feeding frenzy. Avoid Finland at all costs during this period, but also in general." is this true
17:48:01 <kmc> i should get some qbasic up ins
17:48:48 <elliott> we had a qbasic craze here a while ago
17:50:23 <Sgeo_> When I was a kid I had a book that had programs in QBASIC
17:50:35 <Sgeo_> Also the Algebra/Trigonometry/Calculus the Easy Way books
17:50:54 <kmc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbnjusltDHk
17:50:57 <kmc> elliott: oh?
17:51:11 <elliott> kmc: yes! everyone with their dosbox installations
17:51:33 <kmc> cool, what was made?
17:51:58 <fizzie> I made a HTML conversion of the qbasic help file.
17:52:01 <cpressey> FreeDOS, with a virtual disk formatted with FAT12 -- that's the stuff.
17:52:05 <coppro> elliott: why is yesod so cool
17:52:19 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html fancy
17:52:25 <cpressey> elliott: i'm trying to wrap my head around _why's prose and i can feel it stretching
17:52:37 <fizzie> (It might have some misconvertered bits.)
17:53:02 <kmc> oh i should contribute to https://github.com/ticklemynausea/gobsprogram
17:53:02 <fizzie> Yeah, it has \\s in place of \s, which breaks some formatted tables, for example.
17:53:21 <kmc> fizzie: nice
17:53:36 <fizzie> (There's also qb.html which doesn't use the "authentic" colurs.)
17:53:41 <kmc> anyone write a scheme interpreter in qbasic?
17:53:57 <kmc> does it have dynamic allocation? garbage collection?
17:54:05 <kmc> i last touched qbasic long before I knew what those things were
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17:58:27 <elliott> dunno about dynamic allocation
17:58:43 <elliott> presumably you can call DOS with enough baroqueness
17:58:47 <Sgeo_> Maybe I should try the whole maverick thing
17:58:54 <coppro> elliott: needs more classicalness, less baroqueness
17:59:04 <Sgeo_> Is it apt-get update then apt-get dist-upgrade, or just apt-get dist-upgrade
18:00:27 <fizzie> It has dynamic allocation, IIRC, via REDIM.
18:01:35 <fizzie> There aren't really any referencey things.
18:01:36 <elliott> kmc: the most surprising thing about QBASIC is that it's incredibly slow, i had to get a pirated quickbasic from an unnamed source in this channel
18:03:34 <fizzie> And of course anything is doable with CALL ABSOLUTE.
18:04:02 <fizzie> People put machine code in DATA statements and CALL ABSOLUTE that.
18:04:46 <fizzie> http://β.zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDhh has an example.
18:05:42 <fizzie> It's all DIM, DEF SEG, READ, POKE, DATA, CALL ABSOLUTE. Very fancy.
18:13:43 <Bike> for future reference, does anybody here have journal subscriptions and enough contempt for paywalls that you'd let me leech papers off you?
18:15:43 <elliott> esolangs.org is broken again
18:17:16 <coppro> I blame the lack of HTCPCP
18:20:19 <Sgeo_> More DS9 or Farscape?
18:22:21 <cpressey> elliott: "all" BASICs have GC, for strings, no?
18:22:44 <elliott> I'd be surprised if QBASIC had a proper GC
18:22:48 <cpressey> Business BASIC does not -- i know this from experience
18:23:03 <cpressey> well, when the string table becomes full, it does a sweep to compact it
18:23:57 <cpressey> for MS-like BASICs... i guess the determining factor is, do you have to DIM strings
18:24:11 <cpressey> or can you reasonably say A$=A$+"!" in a loop
18:24:50 <cpressey> granted, i might not call that a "proper" GC, 'cuz it's only for strings
18:27:21 <cpressey> Sgeo_: i can't resist. What is "the whole maverick thing"?
18:27:57 <Sgeo_> Wait, I think I'm already on maverick, I need to go to the next thing
18:28:32 <cpressey> the bad news is that "the next thing" is AROS
18:29:09 <Bike> nobody, huh? i feel so alone
18:29:23 <elliott> Bike: i can google for papers if you'd like
18:29:40 <Bike> that only works for old ones!!
18:29:49 <elliott> maybe in YOUR shitty field, bilologist
18:30:06 <elliott> also fizzie might??? I HAVE OBTAINED ILLICIT MATERIALS FROM HIM BEFORE
18:30:26 <Bike> haha wow i googled this paper and got some fantastic results
18:30:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, i'm on a campus connection if you're trying to get through paywalls
18:30:33 <Bike> "Cockroaches Are Evolving to Avoid Poison, Will Rule Us All - Gizmodo" yes you nailed it good job
18:30:34 <elliott> if any police/wsj journalists are reading: it was cocaine
18:30:52 <Bike> "Roach Motel Vacancies Explained | The Scientist Magazine®"
18:30:57 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: k
18:31:55 <Bike> i wonder why physics and stuff is more preprinty than biology
18:32:32 <Bike> obviously i should just read vixra
18:33:33 <Bike> "Although some physicists may attribute this to biologists' secretive and competitive personalities," is this you elliott
18:33:50 * Sgeo_ takes the plunge into natty
18:33:54 <Bike> am i secretive and competitive
18:34:00 <Bike> is that what you think of me!
18:34:07 <elliott> now now, biology is only one of three areas of research for which i harbour disdain
18:34:13 <elliott> speech recognition is one of the others
18:34:57 <Bike> is it marxist critical theory
18:35:39 <Bike> Steganography?
18:36:46 <Bike> i can guess plenty!
18:37:48 <Bike> wasn't bayes like an astronomer or some shit
18:37:58 <cpressey> all of modern research rests on stats. i hope they don't suddenly some deep overlooked problem
18:38:09 <Bike> mathematician. CLOSE ENOUGH
18:38:19 <elliott> doesn't most research hopelessly misuse statistics, generally
18:38:24 <kmc> fizzie: cool. i guess if I'm implementing Scheme in QBASIC, i will just have a fixed size array for cons pairs
18:38:27 <kmc> and implement my own GC
18:39:09 <cpressey> elliott: only when it isn't just blatantly biased in the first place
18:39:11 <Bike> elliott: http://mchankins.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/still-not-significant-2/ it's amazing
18:39:30 <Bike> "not absolutely significant but very probably so (p>0.05)"
18:40:27 <Bike> "not quite within the conventional bounds of statistical significance (p=0.12)"
18:40:32 <Phantom_Hoover> "a strong tendency towards statistical significance (p=0.051)
18:40:35 <Bike> "not significantly significant but..clinically meaningful (p=0.072)"
18:40:55 <Bike> "on the cusp of conventional statistical significance (p=0.054)"
18:41:10 <Phantom_Hoover> "approached but did not quite achieve significance (p>0.05)
18:41:18 <cpressey> Bike: i'll gladly harbour disdain for economics on elliott's behalf
18:41:32 <Bike> "remarkably close to significance (p=0.05009)" is pretty fantastic
18:41:52 <Bike> cpressey: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/phd_students/backus/girlfriend/why_i_dont_have_a_girlfriend.pdf
18:41:57 <Phantom_Hoover> "approaches but fails to achieve a customary level of statistical significance (p=0.154)"
18:42:12 <Bike> i like how that one is fucking three times .05
18:42:20 <Bike> "close enough"
18:43:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, i wish someone had linked me this paper before i went to warwick!
18:43:55 <Bike> i think every university has something silly like this somewhere
18:44:56 <elliott> warwick, more like snorewick IMO
18:44:58 <Bike> http://vixra.org/abs/1303.0028 i forgot that vixra is amazing
18:45:38 <Bike> warwick more like fuckingsuckswick
18:46:22 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: btw this stats thing is actually such a problem that http://www.jnrbm.com/ exists
18:46:51 <Bike> literally a journal full of results that things don't happen
18:47:56 <Taneb> coventry? more like Coven Tree!
18:48:04 <Bike> elliott: wait i've got it. the third thing is: the people who come up with "impact factors" and whatever for journals
18:48:10 <Taneb> Wasn't there a scooby doo movie with a coven tree
18:48:18 <elliott> Bike: ok but those are cute
18:48:47 <Bike> yeah but you hate everything, why not cute things?
18:49:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: so warwick's home page literally has a twitter feed excerpt that starts with the fucking university of warwick's twitter account participating in that follow friday nonsense
18:49:42 <Taneb> I'm slightly under six feet tall and have shabby facial hair. I am the cutest.
18:49:42 <Bike> wtf is follow friday
18:49:48 <cpressey> the internet is successfully turning the entire planet stupid
18:49:53 <elliott> tweet other accounts you should follow
18:49:59 <elliott> like everything on twitter
18:50:03 <Bike> wow that's silly
18:50:12 <elliott> so right now warwick.ac.uk literally contains the text
18:50:13 <elliott> #ff @GUSummit2013 speakers @AnthonyMcClaran @MayorofLondon @edparsons @phsmithuk @simon_bradley @toni_pearce @vincecable @krishgm
18:50:17 <Bike> hm let's see what my university is doing
18:50:18 <cpressey> and then you have to tweet your impact factor
18:50:28 <Bike> "911 calls may not go thru due to a phone line problem in the region. For emergencies in Pullman call (509) 332-2521 until further notice."
18:50:30 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I assume you wrote it while tired and stuck with what your spellchecker suggested
18:50:31 <Bike> pretty fucking boring.
18:50:36 <Bike> elliott: imo, needs more @Pontifex
18:50:38 <elliott> "you know who you should follow? as YOUR FRIEND, I recommend the mayor of london -- university of warwick"
18:50:48 <elliott> fuckt he quotes went in the wrong place
18:51:04 <Bike> holy shit my uni's twitter is boring
18:51:06 <elliott> cpressey: does esolangs.org work for you
18:51:09 <kmc> Bike: 0118 999 881 999 119 725...... 3
18:51:36 <Bike> there's a fucking university rivalry joke in here jfc
18:51:44 <Bike> do you have those in the UK?
18:51:57 <Taneb> Bike, Oxford/Cambridge is the big one
18:52:19 <Bike> you lucky bastards
18:53:03 <Bike> congratulations university you are more boring than @Pontifex's endless aphorisms
18:53:06 <Phantom_Hoover> there's a nominal rivalry between warwick and coventry but only on the rare occasion anyone takes coventry seriously
18:53:08 <Taneb> I tried a few minutes ago and it asked me if I wanted to give Go Daddy money
18:53:09 <Bike> We all have in our hearts some areas of unbelief. Let us say to the Lord: I believe! Help my unbelief.
18:53:22 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, is that like the Oxford/Oxford Brookes?
18:53:24 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: i see what you did there!!
18:53:59 <Bike> "We must learn from Mary, and we must imitate her unconditional readiness to receive Christ in her life." dude we don't all have him as a son come on cut me some slack
18:54:25 <Taneb> And didn't that almost cost her her marriage?
18:55:01 <Taneb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKuHYO9TM5A
18:56:03 <Sgeo_> I hate intrusive thoughts oh so much
18:56:12 <elliott> what kinda thoughts we talkin here
18:56:19 <Phantom_Hoover> do you have intrusive thoughts about what you want to do to them
18:56:21 <Taneb> Are these "kill people" thoughts
18:56:27 <Taneb> imo don't kill people
18:56:52 <Bike> This article deals with the phenomenon of life,and shows how can a different approach change all that we know about it.Making the simpliest and most objective assumption that the difference between earth and other planets is just that there is a huge number of chemical reactions near the surface of earth(even a stone travelling in the universe can admitt that, because life means nothing for the stone).These chemical reactions , although ...
18:56:53 <Sgeo_> Intrusive thoughts can be a word, right?
18:56:58 <Bike> ... partially(organism per organism) they seem to have self sustaining and self organizing properties that violate the laws of thermodynamics,when they are seen as a whole, they seem to be more random ,and not violating the laws of thermodynamics.This is very difficult for a person to realize(especially if you are living in big cities), because we see things from inside the whole system, and so it is very difficult to judje objectively ...
18:57:04 <Bike> ... what is life.
18:57:07 <cpressey> intrusive thoughts can definitely be a word
18:57:15 <Bike> it doesn't have to be The Shining
18:58:10 <Bike> This is the first volumn of the primer of algorithm. As is well known, algorithm become center of computer science now. In my lecture notes , I focus on one of the alogorithms, which is called The Recursive Algorithm.
18:59:09 <Sgeo_> On a more pleasant note, jackd2 is asking me some configuration stuff
18:59:27 <Bike> oh gosh somebody came up with a polynomial time 3-sat solver! how exciting!!!
18:59:30 <Sgeo_> Whether or not to enable realtime process priority
18:59:44 <Bike> It is for sure that the algorithm has polynomial runtime, even in the worst case, as the runtime is artificially limited. The question is only if the algorithm does always output the correct result. I suppose it does, due to a proof of correctness that will be shown in this document, and the evidence that an implementation of the algorithm solved millions of test formulae without any error.
18:59:46 <Sgeo_> Says it could lead to complete system lock-ups, but can minimize latency
18:59:50 <quintopia> Bike: it can only solve logarithmically sized circuits :P
18:59:50 <Sgeo_> I think I'm going to say no
19:00:11 <Bike> http://vixra.org/abs/1212.0109
19:00:41 <cpressey> a proof that P=NP on vixra. I AM STUNNED.
19:00:53 <quintopia> thats hilarious that they artificially limit the algorithm
19:00:58 <elliott> Algorithm has been well (!) tested!
19:01:00 <kmc> what's vixra
19:01:04 <kmc> other than arxiv backwards
19:01:06 <Bike> kmc: arxiv w/o standards
19:01:07 <elliott> as if testing an algorithm well is surprising
19:01:19 <kmc> i've seen plenty of crackpot stuff on arxiv so......
19:01:26 <Bike> cpressey: mainstream scientists are just suppressing this
19:01:35 <cpressey> peer review is hard and doesn't help anyway
19:01:37 <Bike> kmc: http://vixra.org/abs/1212.0136 it's a higher level of crackpot
19:02:01 <Bike> oh hey, this other one proves P != NP
19:02:02 <Bike> Any NP problem can reduce to P problem, any P problem can reduce to instructions. If NP=P, it violate information entropy principle.
19:03:04 <Bike> Do computers already have human level intelligence? Could they understand and process the semantics of irrational numbers without knowing the exact values ? Human can. How about uncountable sets ? These are necessary to build sciences and real world modeling. Does human intelligence exceed the power of Turing Machine? This paper explains that behavior-based Turing Test cannot measure some intrinsic human intelligence, due to the ...
19:03:10 <Bike> ... bottleneck in expression, the bottleneck in capacity, and black box issue, etc.
19:03:33 <cpressey> yehhhh you know what... i feel bad for NL vs P, and NP vs EXP. they're just as interesting problems, but there they go with that millenium prize and it's all P vs NP, P vs NP.
19:03:53 <Sgeo_> I guess I should restart after upgrade, right?
19:04:14 <Bike> cpressey: i think serious researchers spend appropriate time on those problems. P/NP can just be a honeypot for morons
19:04:24 <cpressey> Sgeo_: i would be AMAZED if you could keep going without restarting
19:04:41 <Sgeo_> The glibc6 wants kdm to be restarted I think
19:04:54 <Bike> at least, that's what i get out of aaronson's blog, i am not a math guy
19:05:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:05:54 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
19:06:04 <Bike> new and improved sgeo, for the new millenium
19:06:30 <Bike> 13 years late but whos counting
19:06:55 <SgeoN1> I was running the dist-upgrade in a Konsole window.
19:07:15 <SgeoN1> Meaning the kdm restart killed the process, I think.
19:07:49 <ion> *cough* tmux
19:07:52 <cpressey> well now you get to find out just how robust dist-upgrade is
19:08:20 <ion> dpkg --configure -a, apt-get -f install, another dist-upgrade should take care of it.
19:08:31 <cpressey> has anyone done a "software tropes" wiki? "now you get to find out" is a software trope.
19:08:40 <ion> (Some of those are probably redundant, too.)
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19:12:10 <kmc> you should run tmux or screen in every terminal SgeoN1
19:12:23 <kmc> my 'launch a terminal' keybinding launches screen
19:12:58 <SgeoN1> Currently using the ctrlaltf1 thing
19:13:58 <cpressey> i think my habit (developed under FreeBSD) is to use a "ctrlaltf1 thing" for anything excessively system-y
19:13:59 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:14:15 <elliott> for me, ctrl+alt+fN doesn't even work
19:14:31 <elliott> probably some systemd thing I don't understand
19:15:07 <cpressey> "alt" has started to work strangely for me after the latest update... maybe i should totally do the natty thing too
19:17:16 <elliott> kmc: with tmux in every terminal, do you just let closed terminals keep running forever??
19:18:14 <kmc> i close a terminal by exiting the shell(s) inside
19:18:16 <kmc> with ^D or 'exit'
19:18:47 <kmc> but yes sometimes i do have a bunch of junk terminals in the background for whatever reason
19:19:02 <kmc> like if X crashes and I forget to reattach everything
19:19:16 <elliott> i close them with altgr-shift-c (xmonad) a lot, because i run things in them
19:19:22 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/854b1a19fe680c6d0e2b9300a8654680/tumblr_mn687cUjSg1spvwooo2_500.png me
19:19:29 <elliott> and :q<enter>^D or qq^D or whatever are long
19:21:23 <kmc> elliott: oh, well i never noticed how long they are, but i probably will now, thanks a lot :'(
19:21:57 <elliott> kmc: if you're sshing could be :q<enter>^D^D!!!!!!!
19:22:06 <elliott> you probably use ZZ though *spit*
19:23:54 <kmc> i'm with Bike
19:25:13 <cpressey> i find it fascinating that "nerds" carries any weight at all in this channel
19:26:15 <kmc> that's the joke dot gif
19:26:26 <Bike> the thing is that every time i call people nerds, which is of course pretty jokey since i'm saying it on fucking irc, somebody says that
19:27:02 <Bike> whatever imma join #jocks #killallnerds.exe #NASCAR #gunz
19:27:13 <elliott> have you considered Bike...
19:27:25 <kmc> killall -NERD
19:27:26 <Bike> blowing my mind here
19:35:51 <SgeoN1> And don't know if my use of sudo su could be to blae
19:36:11 <kmc> you can do «sudo -i» instead of sudo su
19:36:48 <SgeoN1> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.PermissionsInvalid: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct.
19:39:32 <kmc> burn it down
19:39:53 <Bike> def. burn it down
19:40:22 <kmc> i think #gunz would be full of nerds too
19:40:51 <kmc> WHY YOU WANT RAIL FOR KALASHNIKOV?
19:40:52 <Bike> and #jocks would be full of workout nerds?
19:40:59 <Bike> oh man that guy is the best
19:41:15 <kmc> for those who haven't seen it: http://www.m1-garand-rifle.com/ivan-chesnokov.php
19:41:55 <Bike> YOU LOOK AT FINE RUSSIAN RIFLE, THINK IT NEED CRAZY SHIT STICK ON ALL SIDES OF WEAPON
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19:46:50 <Vorpal> kmc, was it you who suggested a certain Dell monitor?
19:47:17 <kmc> yeah fuck glossy
19:47:26 <Vorpal> only 60 Hz though I assume?
19:47:32 <kmc> i don't know
19:47:47 <Vorpal> I doubt it would be a 120 Hz monitor
19:47:53 <kmc> you could look it up
19:48:06 <Vorpal> I am looking it up, but it didn't say here
19:50:01 <Vorpal> kmc, Huh, reading up on the IPS technology it seems it generally has worse response time than traditional TN, have you noticed any such issues on that model?
19:50:10 <kmc> i don't play games on it though
19:50:15 <elliott> TN response times are just lies usually
19:50:46 <elliott> where everyone claims to have a 0.000000000001ms response time because they sacrifice all kind of quality and have ghosting and stuff and don't actually give that refresh rate in practice or whatever, AIUI
19:50:49 <kmc> http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2412m.htm has testing of lag
19:51:05 <Vorpal> Well as long as I can play games on it without too much issues I'm happy.
19:51:15 <Vorpal> It is a quite expensive monitor so...
19:51:24 <kmc> 'The input lag of the U2412M was very low with an average of only 9.4ms and a maximum of 20ms. This was a very good result and was even lower than the U2410 when using its 'game mode' to bypass a lot of the internal electronics (14.4ms). It was also ever so slightly better than the U2311H (10.6ms). A good performance and no issue for gaming from a lag point of view.'
19:52:00 <Vorpal> elliott, I haven't noticed any ghosting on my current cheap Asus monitor
19:53:37 * SgeoN1 wonders if VirtualBox supports IOMMU shenanigans
19:53:47 <Vorpal> IIRC it does with linux as a host
19:54:09 <kmc> 'I THINK LIVE GRENADE FOR CIVILIAN IN AMERICA IS PROBABLY ENOUGH REASON FOR GULAG, SO IS PROBABLY NO REAL USE FOR GRENADE SPIGOT TO YOU.'
19:54:16 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, With some caveats wrt using the GART not working
19:54:23 <Bike> possible jerkcity ref.? who knows
19:54:49 <Vorpal> SgeoN1, a thingy used by graphics cards mostly
19:55:01 <Vorpal> Don't ask me about the details, because I have no clue
19:55:12 <Vorpal> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_address_remapping_table
19:55:16 <Bike> spigot complaining about belgian pistols would be p. great
19:55:23 <SgeoN1> Oh. Well, I wanted it for graphics...
19:56:11 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/33fb29f6b93975f06f99d0146e548283/tumblr_mn4211nqy41snfhwio1_1280.png have you
20:04:14 <Vorpal> kmc, oh great, it as proper physical buttons. I have a Dell monitor at work with touchbuttons on the side (don't remember which model), pretty good monitor, but those buttons activate way too easily
20:04:23 <Vorpal> if you just get your hand even close to it
20:07:18 <SgeoN1> I think Parallels gave up on caring about non-Macs
20:07:36 <kmc> Parallels the company also makes Linux and Windows server virtualization products
20:07:54 <kmc> eg the commercial version of OpenVZ
20:07:54 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:08:32 <kmc> aiui, these were developed by a different company that bought the Mac desktop virtualization company
20:11:12 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
20:17:37 -!- SirCmpwn has joined.
20:18:40 <shachaf> mnoqy: I was Really Weird? When?
20:19:28 <kmc> GATLING GUN OF AMERICAN CIVIL WAR IS NOT OF SELFLOADING SISTEMA. IS TYPICAL CAPITALIST APPROACH OF MORE IS BETTER. INSTEAD OF A SINGLE STRONG BARREL OF PROUD WORKMANSHIP, IS MANY EXPENSIVE BARREL ON WHEEL LIKE REVOLVER. ONE CONSCRIPT HE SPIN CRANK; OTHER CONSCRIPT HE SWEEP ENEMIES DOWN LIKE FIST OF DRUNKEN GOD.
20:20:02 <Vorpal> kmc, where is that from
20:20:09 <kmc> http://www.m1-garand-rifle.com/ivan-chesnokov.php
20:20:35 <Bike> kmc: what do you think he thinks of tachankas
20:20:43 <fizzie> Vorpal: It was probably at http://www.tested.com/tech/pcs/453848-buying-your-new-monitor-part-one-what-get/ where I saw that U2412M recommendation.
20:21:00 <SgeoN1> does is tree a package called yelp
20:21:24 <SgeoN1> Why is there a package called yelp on my system
20:21:47 <kmc> apt-cache show yelp
20:21:49 <fizzie> The Gnome help browser is called Yelp.
20:22:11 <Bike> it's cool how maxim guns were used up through the korean war
20:22:27 <Bike> i guess that's like how syrians are still using stgs
20:22:30 <SgeoN1> Maybe that website shouldn't have stolen the name of the GNOME help viewer
20:22:41 <Bike> i'm sure that's exactly what they did
20:22:49 <Vorpal> Hm I wonder if my current monitor is IPS... It has extremely good viewing angles. But it is a pretty cheap Asus
20:22:56 <kmc> oh look Metal Storm went bankrupt
20:22:58 * Vorpal looks for a model number
20:23:10 <Bike> the million rounds per minute folks?
20:23:58 <Bike> i guess the papau new guinean armed forces just aren't enough
20:24:20 <Vorpal> Doesn't say IPS on Asus page
20:24:28 <Vorpal> So I would assume it is TN
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20:29:57 <fizzie> Generally (at least my feeling is) TN "viewing angles" in the sense that there's an image and it's not obviously wrong color are quite reasonable too; it's just that the colors noticeably change depending on the (vertical) angle.
20:30:34 <fizzie> Also that bird hasn't been in for hours. I wonder if it went somewhere.
20:30:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, Well it doesn't change at all unless I go to maybe 70 degrees off the normal or so on my monitor
20:31:24 <fizzie> Vorpal: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2013-05-25#064017fizzie that bird.
20:31:43 <fizzie> (There's an image link some lines down.)
20:32:09 <Vorpal> Hm what sort of bird is that
20:32:19 <Vorpal> I'm no good at that sort of thing
20:32:27 <fizzie> There's a species hypothesis few lines further down.
20:34:14 <fizzie> You can compare e.g. to http://www.elisanet.fi/~y612053/Harrastukset/Linnut/Mustarastas-P-03.JPG
20:34:25 <Vorpal> Anyone know how to use ICC profiles under Linux?
20:34:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, wrong beak colour
20:35:01 <Vorpal> Your bird has a yellow beak
20:36:11 <fizzie> So do some of the other blackbird photos.
20:36:38 <fizzie> But I'm certainly not sure at all, I don't know about birds.
20:40:52 <fizzie> As for color management, I think it's quite a lot up to the application to be ICC-aware, and many do it via LittleCMS aka LCMS.
20:41:34 <Vorpal> Nothing on the GPU level then
20:42:05 <fizzie> There's standalone loaders for setting the graphics card look-up table thingamajicks that (some?) monitor profiles use.
20:42:35 <fizzie> And a root window property for associating monitor profiles with screens, which I think the loaders also set?
20:42:39 <fizzie> Something like that, anyway.
20:42:46 <Vorpal> Know the software name?
20:43:51 <fizzie> I think dispwin is one of the tools. It's from the Argyll CMS.
20:44:48 <fizzie> Also something standalone called xcalib. But I don't have in-depth knowledge of these things, I don't have a fancy enough monitor and/or know anyone with a color calibro-a-meter.
20:46:03 <fizzie> For Gimp you can just configure the monitor profile in its own dialogs, at least.
20:46:20 <fizzie> There seems to be a checkbox for "try to use the system monitor profile", which doesn't sound all that optimistic.
20:46:27 <cpressey> ok, so _why is completely insane
20:46:33 <cpressey> though, i do not mean that in a bad way.
20:53:06 <SgeoN1> Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/icedtea-netx_1.2-2ubuntu0.11.04.3_i386.deb
20:58:16 <fizzie> Vorpal: Re TN and viewing angles, http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/viewing_angle.php is a good test of it; the text in the image shouldn't have different colors depending on the position on the screen (i.e., the viewing angle to that region); it most certainly does for my el-cheapo TN panel. (Hey, it's quite old; IPS panels were really pricey back then.)
20:59:35 <fizzie> (Though I really should've probably shopped around; the controls on this thing are atrocious, and I think there's some "sharpening" setting that can't be disabled or even configured.)
20:59:58 <fizzie> (Just can't justify doing anything about it until it breaks.)
21:06:15 <kmc> !bf_txtgen Gob's program? y/n
21:06:19 <EgoBot> 213 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>+.>-.>.>---.<+++++++++++++++++.>-------.<<+.++.>----.--------.<.>------.<-----.<--------.>>>.<<++++++++++++.<----------------.>-----------.>>----------------------. [647]
21:07:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, there is a very slight difference, not much.
21:07:21 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:07:41 <Bike> is bf_txtgen optimal?
21:07:48 <cpressey> ais523: read this http://catseye.tc/wsj.html
21:07:55 <ais523> sometimes returns a different value with the same input
21:08:02 <elliott> pfft, as if ais523 clicks links
21:08:05 <Bike> really, how intereting
21:08:07 <ais523> also, in general, an optimal bf_txtgen requires solving a busy beaver-like problem
21:08:08 <EgoBot> 38 ++++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>--.+.>. [83]
21:08:14 <Bike> ais523: yeah that's why i was wondering
21:08:17 <ais523> elliott: if they go to catseye, I'm more likely to
21:08:30 <elliott> ais523: http://catseye.tc/warez/Windows_8.iso
21:09:12 <Bike> cpressey: you are a beautiful person
21:09:33 <fizzie> It's a very strict fixed format; +{n}, followed by that single loop (that always has four "terms" for !bf_txtgen, though the underlying code lets you configure that with a command line argument), followed by a sequence of +-<>. without loops.
21:09:51 <ais523> elliott: "more likely" does not necessarily mean "100%"
21:09:57 <ais523> especially because that's likely either a 404, or some sort of ingenious joke
21:10:33 <elliott> you don't like ingenious jokes???
21:10:35 <fizzie> And the parameters (initial number, values of the terms, output printing sequence) are done with a GP thing. One of those outputs is the generation number, I think.
21:11:09 <cpressey> correlation of giving ais523 links and ais523 clicking on them is quasi-significant (p=0.09)
21:11:12 <Bike> i demand an uncomputable algorithm
21:11:35 <SgeoN1> Is that dpkg configure thing supposed to be idempotent?
21:12:03 <elliott> fizzie: you should write a better thing.
21:12:24 <fizzie> Someone spoke on channel about writing a better thing, though I don't know if that happened.
21:12:29 <Vorpal> It would be nice if bf_txtgen tried to remove un-needed > and < though
21:12:52 <ais523> I've given more serious esolang emails, over email
21:13:16 <elliott> guaranteed that any ais523 interview would be edited for length and boredom
21:13:24 <ais523> cpressey: elliott: http://danieltemkin.com/blog/post/Interview-with-ais523.aspx
21:13:29 <SgeoN1> About to reboot into Natty
21:13:32 <kmc> !bf_txtgen Gob's Program: Y/N?
21:13:35 <EgoBot> 242 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>+.>-.>.>---.<+++++++++++++++++.>-------.<<<+++++++++.>>-.<.--------.>.<------.>-----.<<----------------------.>>>..<<--------.<-----------.>-----------.---------------.>>----------------------. [643]
21:13:38 <Bike> elliott: uh yeah that's why the letter says to interview zzo!
21:13:40 <ais523> some people from channel 4 tried to interview me once
21:14:27 <fizzie> ais523: You've given emails, over email?
21:14:32 <cpressey> daniel temkin... i think i tried to give him an interview years ago but never actually succeeded
21:14:34 <ais523> interviews, over email
21:14:44 <ais523> cpressey: yeah, he was interviewing some of the best-known esolang names
21:14:48 <ais523> so I'm not surprised he tried to interview you
21:15:05 <elliott> "Here is the edited interview with Alex. Q: What are esolangs? A: Esolangs [...] epistemological [...] Thursday [...] fucking Stephen Wolfram [...] wholly derived from [...] bitchin' [...] except for this last case (and the one after it))))))))))) [...] but not axiomatically."
21:15:29 <ais523> anyway, I need some advice
21:15:38 <cpressey> he's still blogging so if i can compose myself maybe i'll hit him up sometime, see if he's at all still interested
21:15:40 <fizzie> Don't eat yellow snow.
21:15:49 <elliott> Bike: you don't even know how deep ais523's parentheses go
21:15:50 <SgeoN1> Why did I end up booting into GNOME, urgh
21:15:51 <Bike> definitely don't eat brown snow
21:15:57 <Bike> elliott: lisp joke
21:16:11 <ais523> basically, I'm trying to help another computer go
21:16:12 <SgeoN1> GNOME with no panels. Shoot me.
21:16:32 <Bike> `pastelogs )))))
21:16:36 <ais523> basically, what happened is that the Windows partitions on it (two of them, somehow) have been so overrun with something or other that they can no longer be resized
21:16:41 <Bike> well i forget the command
21:16:44 <HackEgo> grep: unmatched parentheses \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21715
21:16:55 <ais523> to make the computer usable, we resized the recovery partition, and put Linux (specifically, Ubuntu precise) on the unused portion of that
21:16:57 * Bike beats head into table
21:17:09 <Bike> `pastelogs '\\)\\)\\)\\)\\)'
21:17:15 <HackEgo> grep: unmatched parentheses \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4933
21:17:24 <ais523> anyway, the point is it has a very low maximum disk space
21:17:24 <Bike> fuck. everything
21:17:32 <ais523> in fact, the package system currently seems to be broken
21:17:39 <ais523> and I'm not convinced there's enough free space to repair it
21:17:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19598
21:18:23 <ais523> also there seems to be some sort of signature error on the kernel
21:18:25 <Bike> wow look at all dem lisp jokes
21:18:47 <Bike> gosh, log from ten years ago
21:19:11 <shachaf> um the world is only 8 years old
21:19:42 <Bike> i thought it was 44
21:19:57 <ais523> and software center keeps segfaulting
21:20:27 <Bike> why the everloving fuck is there this much ski
21:20:40 <shachaf> elliott: What happened to esolangs.org?
21:21:27 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
21:21:30 <Bike> wow, this is elliott using cl!
21:21:41 <nooodl_> This Web page is parked FREE, courtesy of GoDaddy.com
21:22:27 * ais523 deletes the entire content of /var/cache, then mounts a tmpfs over /var/cache
21:22:50 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
21:23:24 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:23:35 <Sgeo> Finally booted into KDE
21:24:16 -!- joe_____ has joined.
21:24:45 <Sgeo> `welcome joe_____
21:24:47 <HackEgo> joe_____: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:25:20 <ais523> that's a lot of underscores
21:25:53 <nooodl_> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2003-09-24
21:25:54 <Sgeo> Any particular reason not to trust do-release-upgrade?
21:26:07 <nooodl_> some of them are rather poetic
21:26:09 <ais523> cpressey: I think my main feedback is that 99.97% seems too high
21:26:10 <Sgeo> Oh, occurs to me that my sources.list still needs to and should be pointing to old-releases
21:26:29 <nooodl_> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2003-08-31 lament's twitter
21:26:32 <ais523> not many people esolang at all, so a single female would throw the statistics way off, and I vaguely remember there's at least one
21:26:33 <Sgeo> I like this wallpaper
21:27:13 <Sgeo> ais523, fax/MissPiggy/Iforgetwhatothernamesshesused?
21:27:15 <elliott> there are at least like 4-5 women who have made esolangs or been in #esoteric for a while
21:27:27 <Bike> nooodl_: wow that's... yeah.
21:27:34 <elliott> but it's still pretty depressingly imbalanced
21:27:56 <ais523> Sgeo: I was thinking of someone else, but can't remember who
21:28:03 <Bike> we need an esolang outreach system
21:28:30 <Bike> get the most charismatic to go around to schools teaching lens
21:28:44 <Sgeo> lens is an esolang now?
21:29:19 <nooodl_> i still need to "get into" lens
21:29:22 <Bike> it's either that or brainfuck derivatives sgeo. the choice is obvious
21:29:46 <shachaf> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtpVhEgj7tU -- now that's what i call a Real Fast Download
21:29:51 <Sgeo> I think the thing that made me actually notice lenses is mapped
21:30:22 <nooodl_> imo the quintessential esolang is befunge, not brainfuck
21:30:26 <nooodl_> brainfuck is just so boring
21:30:38 <Bike> i'm. hasn't taneb seen it?
21:30:54 <elliott> Bike: no he named it after a spam page advertising an (iirc phony) download for it
21:30:58 <Bike> nooodl_: see. Befunge Fun Hour. we can do it
21:31:10 <Bike> elliott: good etymology
21:31:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:31:45 <Bike> Delicious (T. Ashanti Mozelle) is in charge of maintaining Nora s legacy and tradition by running & managing the shop. The dysfunctional group of hairstylists consisting of Janelle, Nina, Xenobia, Tashina, and manicurists Ming and Ling are still up to their old antics! One day, reality show producer Charles (Miguel Nuñez) enters the shop. Captivated by the goings-on inside, he proposes that Nora s Hair Salon have its own show. ...
21:31:51 <Bike> ... Immediately, the salon crew signs on with hopes of money and fame, but they get more than they bargained for when they learn that Charles has ulterior motives. Now, the crew must come together to see that this reality tape never sees the light of day. Written by Anonymous
21:32:08 <kmc> !bf_txtgen Penus
21:32:10 <EgoBot> 75 ++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>.>+.+++++++++.+++++++.--.>++.>. [702]
21:32:16 <Bike> what the hell is Xenobia
21:32:17 <cpressey> every decade or so there's a female but they never stay very long. maybe 99.97% is a bit high.
21:32:18 <elliott> kmc: using !bf_txtgen is cheating btw
21:32:24 <Bike> is Ming and Ling some racist thing i don't even know
21:32:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:32:35 <elliott> Bike: Xenobia, short for Xenophobia
21:32:44 <Bike> what the fuck, this is a sequel?
21:32:53 <Bike> i thought the 3 was just marketing
21:33:04 <Bike> Jennifer Lewis plays Nora, a young woman who runs a hair salon full of sassy, eclectic stylists.
21:33:22 <Bike> Rated R for some language and sexual references
21:33:46 <Bike> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0883410/ what a mysterious film
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21:34:23 <Bike> our local warez specialist (or "zpecialist") found a rip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtpVhEgj7tU
21:34:33 <Bike> too bad this couldn't be advertised directly on a certain wiki!
21:34:34 <elliott> unlike the other two films in the trilogy, Nora's Hair Salon II is a horror art film
21:34:41 <elliott> and shares no characters with the others
21:35:00 <Bike> except Xenobia, dark priestess of the east
21:35:04 <elliott> it was not well received by fans of the original and the third instalment is generally considered a far superior sequel
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21:35:51 * ais523 deletes kernel modules for all versions of the kernel under than the one we're currently using
21:35:57 <elliott> cpressey: see this is how you do it (example from #haskell):
21:35:59 <elliott> 22:34:24 <arkeet> cabal is easy.
21:35:59 <elliott> 22:35:04 <aristid> not as easy as monoids.
21:36:28 -!- joe_____ has joined.
21:36:29 <shachaf> elliott's point is that monoids are easy
21:37:07 <nooodl_> am i the only one who thinks "a female" sounds overly technical...
21:37:32 <ais523> huh, you can resize tmpfses, neat
21:38:37 <ais523> I have 463M available on /
21:38:46 <ais523> and 800M available on /var/cache
21:38:51 <ais523> and yet I'm still getting disk full errors
21:39:19 <ais523> when only 100M is meant to be needed
21:39:35 <kmc> nooodl_: yeah people should generally be called "men" or "women" (or "people"), "female" is more of an adjective
21:40:11 <kmc> calling women "females" is common among chauvinists, "pick up artists" / "mens rights activists" and the like
21:40:19 <kmc> of course not everyone who uses the word that way is one of those
21:40:25 <elliott> and worst of all, cpressey!!!!
21:41:24 <elliott> shachaf: esolangs.org works for me now, maybe it will for you too
21:41:24 <Sgeo> Oh, I don't need to do old-releases for oneiric
21:41:39 <elliott> i got a reply from THE ALAN DIPERT saying he'll sort it out so hopefully all will be well soon!
21:42:32 <shachaf> "men" and "women" has age connotations
21:42:38 <kmc> it's hard to estimate gender ratios in online technical communities, because people are assumed to be male by default, and if you correct them it's all WHY ARE YOU FORCING YOUR RADICAL FEMINIST AGENDA ON US and then the rape and death threats
21:42:45 <kmc> i don't think we would do that
21:42:57 <kmc> but it's a reason why some women prefer not to be "out" as women online
21:43:17 <Bike> i should find a biologist chatroom and see what it's like
21:43:21 <Bike> since the community is mostly female
21:43:44 <kmc> what's the ratio?
21:44:05 <Bike> not much over 50/50, lemme check
21:44:28 -!- joe_____ has quit (Quit: Page closed).
21:44:49 <Bike> (it's cool how if you google "nsf gender ratios" you get a bunch of stuff on sexual development in nonhumans)
21:45:38 <kmc> i demand to know whether male nonhuman primates or female nonhuman primates are better at programming computers
21:46:10 <shachaf> which gender of compiler generates better code
21:46:12 <kmc> \rainbow{evolutionary psychology}
21:46:21 <kmc> shachaf: is 'compiler' a male or female noun in hebrew
21:46:27 <Bike> http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf12311/ gives 1.8/1.2 in favor of women, versus e.g. 16.6/9.3 for men in CS and math
21:47:29 <Bike> social sciences are also female-dominated, while physics is still male-dominated
21:47:47 <Bike> engineers is given as 16.4/4.2 which is pretty crazy
21:48:14 <shachaf> what about political economy
21:49:02 <Bike> I don't know if that counts as "science and engineering" so much as "twainbait"
21:49:26 <cpressey> wait wait wait Real Fast Nora is a FILM? I was so SURE it was a casual game of the resource management genre
21:49:37 <cpressey> i mean it sounds like one, doesn't it? doesn't it?
21:49:38 <Bike> i actually thought the same thing
21:49:42 <Bike> which is weird
21:50:25 <kmc> the gender ratio in open source and online software communities is also a lot more skewed than the gender ratio among professional programmers
21:51:06 <cpressey> nooodl_: i'm trying not to be speciestist.
21:51:34 <shachaf> I try not to be too speciesist but it's hard.
21:51:49 <kmc> remember everyone, open source is a pure meritocracy that in no way drives away particular kinds of people
21:52:41 <ais523> kmc: I've noticed the gender ratio in computer science get closer to even over time, even just in the four years I was teaching there
21:52:57 <Bike> this reminds me that i'm not good enough at websurfing to figure out how to get the US BLS to tell me how most people in the US are employed
21:53:02 <Bike> because i really don't know...
21:53:11 <kmc> i already lost the link to the qbasic online docs :(
21:53:29 <ais523> that is, among students
21:53:37 <kmc> oh http://xn--nxa.zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html
21:54:03 <fizzie> The "c" is for colors.
21:54:17 <Bike> wow this is long
21:57:58 -!- Bike_ has joined.
21:58:25 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services).
21:58:28 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
22:01:24 -!- mnoqy has joined.
22:02:56 <elliott> kmc: you should implement deadfish in qbasic, although i guess it probably already has been
22:04:13 <FreeFull> You should implement Haskell in qbasic
22:04:51 <Bike> implement qbasic in deadfish
22:05:00 <kmc> what's deadfish
22:05:27 <Bike> that thing that squares numbers and sucks
22:06:04 <FreeFull> By the way, what happened to the esolangs wiki ):
22:08:06 -!- Bike_ has joined.
22:09:05 <cpressey> esolangs.org totally works for me. i suspect i'm on a different internet from everyone else
22:10:05 <cpressey> Bike_: the internet doesn't seem to know what "twainbait" means & neither do I
22:10:25 <Bike_> yo shachaf help him out
22:10:29 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services).
22:10:31 <cpressey> Mark Twain - "When you fish for love, bait with your heart, not your brain."
22:10:31 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
22:11:16 <fizzie> Someone should perhaps solve the DNS cache coherency problem, it's nonsensical when things work for some people but not for others.
22:11:49 <Bike> cpressey: anyway shachaf was referring to a short story he linked yesterday, titled Political Economy, by Twain
22:12:18 <elliott> Bike: you realise you said twainbait not shachaf right
22:12:33 <fizzie> Huh, there's a Nintendo 3DS version of VVVVVV around? The strangest.
22:13:04 <Bike> elliott: yeah but i'm approximately utterly unconcerned with making sense wrt shachaffing
22:13:17 <Sgeo> Why is xset trying to open display ""
22:13:27 <Bike> because that's the best display
22:13:36 <Sgeo> Does this upgrade need to be running with communication to an X server for some odd reason?
22:13:41 <cpressey> Bike: thanks. my brain is still recovering from _why's thing, so i'll read it tomorrow
22:13:45 <Bike> i suppose next you'll be wonering about MIT MAGIC COOKIEs
22:13:53 <Sgeo> It did ask me which ... thing (gdm kdm etc.) I wanted as default
22:14:21 <Bike> sgeo i think making sense of desktop environments is hopeless and don't
22:14:51 <Sgeo> I just don't know if that's related to it trying to do X stuff
22:15:06 <shachaf> Bike: I make sense in other channels!
22:15:32 <shachaf> Why don't you /join #haskell and see for yourself?
22:15:43 <Bike> sounds like a sucky place
22:15:54 <shachaf> It's the worst thing in the world.
22:16:17 <Bike> i hear elliott ops there but still hasn't /cs clear users'd
22:17:45 <shachaf> whoa i didn't know about /msg chanserv clear users
22:17:54 <shachaf> why must you put this temptation in my path
22:18:03 <Bike> I'm a kingmaker.
22:18:13 <Bike> where 'king' is a euphemism for space madness
22:19:16 <Sgeo> There are Mafia-variant games with kingmakers
22:22:17 <Bike> there's a country iin southeast asia called Vietnam
22:22:57 <elliott> cpressey: has boily asked you the question yet by the way
22:23:01 <FreeFull> Why doesn't someone do that here
22:23:30 <Vorpal> kmc, I'm considering going for a H-IPS monitor instead, I identified the one at work as a U2410, and I really like it. Seems that is an old model though. Ever used a U2413, which seems to be the current replacement for that
22:24:23 <Vorpal> It is a bit expensive though
22:24:45 <Vorpal> But 6-bit + FRC sounds annoying.
22:27:24 <cpressey> elliott: no, boily has not asked me any questions in fact, and i doubt i would be able to discern The Question from a randomly selected question
22:27:32 <elliott> cpressey: I am sure you would
22:27:59 <mnoqy> which question is this now
22:28:12 <elliott> mnoqy: you know, the one boily asks
22:28:46 <shachaf> have i been asked this question
22:28:51 <cpressey> if it's anything like Phantom_Hoover's secret...
22:29:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover will take his secret to the grave
22:29:15 <Bike> why do i know this question and not shachaf and mnoqy what is happening
22:29:23 <elliott> btw I would say it's not specifically his secret
22:29:30 <elliott> secret pertaining to phantom hoover
22:30:08 <cpressey> kmc: that's a good point about assuming-male-by-default; I'm now wondering how many esolang designers have gone by an alias and I've never confirmed the gender of
22:33:54 <kmc> Vorpal: no I haven't used the U2413 or U2410
22:34:07 <kmc> any particular reason for going with H-IPS?
22:34:15 <kmc> and can you get a 24" H-IPS for $300?
22:34:26 <kmc> btw I hear there are these amazing cheap monitors from Korea
22:34:29 <kmc> on ebay or whatever
22:34:34 <kmc> there are whole web forums devoted to them
22:34:37 <Vorpal> kmc, but since I'm considering dual monitor in that case...
22:35:18 <Vorpal> kmc, I read a bit about that, one guy complained about electronic whining. That scares me. I can't stand that, plus I have above average hearing so...
22:35:23 <Vorpal> Nope, not taking that risk.
22:35:39 <Phantom_Hoover> <cpressey> if it's anything like Phantom_Hoover's secret...
22:35:42 <Vorpal> kmc, It is either dual U2412M or single U2413
22:35:58 <cpressey> if god is here, i have a question for him/her/it, namely, when you made the moon why did you put a rabbit in it that you can only see when it's full and when you tilt your head to the right?
22:36:36 <cpressey> i think i prefer the mystery for that one.
22:36:56 <mnoqy> well just think....if you were god.....wouldnt you have done it too
22:36:58 <Vorpal> kmc, since the U2412M has a 6-bit panel + FRC I'm a bit worried
22:37:02 <Vorpal> kmc, is that noticable?
22:37:14 <myname> if i wouldn't hate IO in prolog, i'd provide an implementation of deadfish in it
22:37:25 <shachaf> alt. who cares about the moon, there are billions of other moons
22:37:48 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it's the one about your tumblr, for the record
22:38:05 <Bike> little known fact: cpressey's moonjob there is actually true of all moons
22:38:24 <mnoqy> i thought the tumblr secret wasnt secret at all
22:38:30 <elliott> cpressey: do you prefer the mystery for the god question or the ph question
22:38:36 <Bike> is the tumblr secret that it's actually written by taneb
22:38:50 <shachaf> spill the beans Phantom_Hoover
22:38:55 <mnoqy> Bike: dont worry thats the one thats not secret at all
22:39:56 <elliott> cpressey: also re: god, moon, rabbits: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/White-Rabbit-making-elixir-of-immortality.jpg
22:40:04 <elliott> "The mythological white hare making the elixir of immortality on the Moon, from Chinese mythology. Embroidered onto 18th-century Imperial Chinese robes."
22:41:05 <cpressey> elliott: yeah, sadly, that is where i learnt of it, and i was like, i know there's a man in the moon, but a rabbit, nuh-uh, and then i tilted my head to the right and i was like DAMN
22:41:19 <Bike> imo gunnerkrigg should be wear you learned about it
22:41:31 <elliott> cpressey: man i worked to find that image
22:41:36 <mnoqy> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Man_in_the_Moon_with_key.jpg conclusive evidence
22:41:49 <cpressey> elliott: er well not that image precisely -- i meant wikipedia
22:42:21 <mnoqy> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Man_In_The_Moon2.png more evidence (also conclusive)
22:42:47 <elliott> i still love how terrible that last one is
22:43:15 <Bike> https://bitcoinstarter.com/
22:43:32 <mnoqy> Bike is that crowdfunding with bitcoins
22:43:49 <mnoqy> project categories: NSFW
22:44:09 <mnoqy> Starting an Adult/Porn 3D Virtual Reality company
22:44:29 <mnoqy> Bitcoin Mining for Local School Programs
22:44:45 <Koen_> I thought it was a mare in the moon
22:45:35 <mnoqy> im with elliott here
22:46:27 <cpressey> ... so it's actually written by Taneb? I'd believe that, it would explain why Taneb cared if I had read it or not.
22:47:17 <elliott> cpressey: IMO the part where he said "@tell Taneb I want to RIP OUT MY OWN PANCREAS for writing 'exersize' on my tumblr" and then quit was a bit of a giveaway
22:47:43 <Koen_> oh, Phantom_Hoover updated his tumblr?
22:48:53 <kmc> Vorpal: i don't know what 6-bit panel + FRC means, so I think it's not noticable
22:48:53 <nooodl_> guys http://i.imgur.com/42sR2OD.png
22:49:01 <Bike> i dunno elliott, i'd rip out my pancreas for that 2
22:49:07 <kmc> i don't use it for anything super demanding
22:49:12 <Bike> nooodl_: awesome
22:49:16 <kmc> i read websites and code and irc
22:49:24 <Bike> it's like dumbass minesweeper
22:49:49 <kmc> haha that owns
22:49:54 <nooodl_> maybe i'll make something like rubicon for befunge
22:50:24 <kmc> Rob Ford Crackstarter is up to $172,756 of $200,000 with 56 hours left
22:51:17 <Vorpal> <kmc> Vorpal: i don't know what 6-bit panel + FRC means, so I think it's not noticable <-- that each colour only has 64 brightness levels, and it uses "temporal dithering" to emulate a full 256 levels
22:51:31 <Vorpal> So it quickly switches back and forth
22:51:34 <kmc> what's the speed on that temporal dithering
22:51:47 <Vorpal> I don't know, that is why I'm asking if you noticed anything
22:51:51 <kmc> no i didn't
22:51:58 <Vorpal> I did search a bit but couldn't find any speed info
22:52:07 <kmc> look this is a high end Dell business monitor and it gets good reviews everywhere
22:52:09 <Koen_> nooodl_: what have you done and where can I purchase that
22:52:21 <kmc> I don't think it's going to have some glaring flaw; I certainly haven't noticed one
22:52:53 <Vorpal> kmc, right, but it is an expensive piece of equipment, so I'm reading multiple reviews and asking people who I know who used it before buying it
22:53:02 <fizzie> The quoted contrast numbers for monitors are something really absurd these days. Like this one, it says 80000000:1.
22:53:12 <Vorpal> I'm always this careful when buying expensive electronics
22:53:42 -!- Taneb has joined.
22:54:15 <cpressey> nooodl_: the last time i saw something like that it was http://wimrijnders.nl/other/befunge.html but it didn't have the iconery
22:54:16 <Taneb> I need confirmation of a random fact I saw on Tumblr about the Finnish language
22:54:16 <Phantom_Hoover> MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN: http://en.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1f0xmo/liberty_reserve_shut_down_for_money_laundering/ca5qix5
22:54:32 <Koen_> Taneb: I need the url to Phantom_Hoover's tumblr
22:54:34 <Taneb> What's the equivalent idiom in Finnish to "fits like a glove"?
22:54:42 <Taneb> Koen_, taneb.tumblr.com
22:54:59 <Koen_> no there was "phantom" and "hooover" in it I'm sure
22:55:30 <Taneb> Try sgeo.tumblr.com
22:57:40 <cpressey> ack, do you all have tumblrs now?
22:57:59 <Sgeo> sgeo.tumblr.com is genuinely mine.
22:58:57 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: what was the point of that link
22:59:17 <Bike> making fun of people
22:59:17 <fizzie> Taneb: Fits like a (fist in the (eye|face)|nose in the face).
22:59:26 <Koen_> Taneb: thanks now I know hot to break out of a ziptie
22:59:28 <Bike> oh sweet is that real
22:59:29 <Phantom_Hoover> it was the latest update in the "MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN" series
22:59:31 <Taneb> fizzie, wow, Tumblr was right
22:59:33 <Bike> imo beautiful language
22:59:58 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: i take this to mean you are mocking the content of this channel
23:00:13 <Taneb> cpressey, this channel is on topic about once a fortnight now
23:00:49 <fizzie> Taneb: Though I'm not sure the connotations are quite "fits like a glove", it's more like "this thing is well suited to the place it's in or the use it is put to", or some-such. But it's an idiom, anyway.
23:01:12 <Taneb> fizzie, same with "fits like a glove"
23:01:35 <Koen_> fits like a glove in your nose
23:02:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, not really, fits like a glove is mostly referring to actual physical fitting
23:02:53 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, really? I rarely hear it used non-ironically for that
23:02:58 <Bike> you think? i wouldn't say so, phantom
23:03:10 <Bike> 'he fits that job like a glove' or w/e
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23:03:35 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:03:58 -!- nooodl has joined.
23:03:59 <cpressey> i'll go with PH here, every use of 'fits like a glove' that i can think of outside apparel sounds weird to me right now
23:04:40 <cpressey> the director's use of bach as background music for this scene fits like a glove
23:04:57 <mnoqy> im sure lots of things fit like gloves
23:05:03 <mnoqy> toe socks, for instance
23:05:12 <mnoqy> or are those more like finger mittens
23:06:03 <kmc> the german word for "glove" is "Handschuh"
23:06:14 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:06:28 <Koen_> what's a handsock then?
23:06:30 <fizzie> The Finnish word for glove is "hanska".
23:06:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:07:17 <fizzie> Or perhaps "hansikas" if you feel formal, but that contraction is quite common.
23:07:31 <Koen_> the english word for glove is "glove" didn't I just blow your mind?
23:07:34 <kmc> wikipedia says "käsine"
23:07:48 <fizzie> "käsi" would be "hand".
23:09:12 <Taneb> What would be Finnish for Handshoe?
23:10:20 <fizzie> "käsineen" is either "with his/her/its hands" or the possessive form "glove's".
23:10:35 <fizzie> Thanks to the comitative case.
23:10:43 <fizzie> (Which has a -ne suffix.)
23:10:59 <Koen_> I can't decide whether I'm sad or happy than french dropped declinations
23:11:02 <fizzie> Plural third person singular comitative, or something.
23:11:18 <Koen_> is plural singular a thing in finnish?
23:11:31 <Taneb> Koen_, I'm pretty sure Finnish has more declensions than anyone else
23:11:39 <fizzie> Or, actually, that was right.
23:11:59 <Taneb> fizzie, do native Finnish speakers do all these messed up endings instinctively?
23:12:01 <fizzie> It's the plural for hand, singular for whose hands it is.
23:12:20 <Koen_> Taneb, but do they concatenate words like German and Dutch?
23:12:36 <Taneb> Koen_, I believe they concatenate word endings
23:12:39 <fizzie> Taneb: Yes, which makes it kind of hard to actually think about them.
23:12:57 <Taneb> fizzie, would it be like me thinking about how "bough" is pronounced?
23:13:24 <Taneb> Hint: it rhymes with sow and bow, not sow and bow
23:13:34 <Koen_> Taneb: well technically french does that too. "feminine plural" forms are usually the masculine singular form, followed by the feminine ending, followed by the plural ending
23:14:00 <Bike> no, i like it better how it is
23:14:34 <Taneb> The plural of goose is geese, the plural of moose is...
23:15:16 <Taneb> All other languages are weird because they take one thing and stick with it
23:15:21 <fizzie> Doing the comitative for multiple hands for all the six (first, second, third) person (singular, plural) choices doesn't really come out all that instinctively, actually. It's not exactly all that common.
23:15:29 <Taneb> English is weird because we did the exact opposite
23:15:54 <Bike> english is really not weird for having exceptions to grammatical rules
23:17:24 <fizzie> Käsineni, käsinesi, käsineen, käsinemme, käsinenne, käsineen. Maybe.
23:17:28 <Koen_> are you really saying that French follows rules without exceptions
23:17:33 <Koen_> are you really saying that?
23:17:41 <Taneb> Koen_, French isn't that weird, most of the time
23:18:14 <Bike> i mean for example look at the conjugation of the copula in any language with it
23:18:36 <Taneb> English has at least seven different ways of forming the plural
23:18:37 <Koen_> the plural of hibou is hiboux, the plural of chou is choux, the plural of caillou is cailloux, etc... but actually most -ou words have plural -ous
23:18:45 <HackEgo> myynivisittamisse kiehätäislamme monistavimmaksenäjä kysyttämista verbeilevimme eteetta laamalle kullaanne huuteeltäni sykkäymiimme
23:19:11 <Koen_> the plural for cheval is chevaux, the plural for animal is animaux, but actually most -al words have plural -als
23:19:12 <fizzie> "monistavimmat": those who copy things the most, approx.
23:19:34 <fizzie> With the "xerox" sense of copy.
23:20:17 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, at least with Latin it doesn't lull you into a false sense of security with "all words use -s as the plural"
23:20:29 <Koen_> Taneb: right now I'm not even sure whether the correct plural is "corails" or "coraux"
23:21:04 <Bike> i think out of all scientists i feel the most sorry for linguists because they get this crap all the time
23:21:34 <Taneb> Then years later "Oh, this word stays the same in the plural. This word changes its vowel sound. This word gains three letters. This changes its final consonant sounds and gets an s. This chages to an -i. This changes to an -ae. This changes to an -a. This changes to an -odes."
23:21:50 <Bike> right like that
23:22:11 <Taneb> Sorry, pluralization makes me angry.
23:22:30 <Bike> i'm just sayin', everything's terrible
23:36:41 <Taneb> On another not entirely
23:36:51 <Taneb> Has anyone told cpressey about the Hexham coincidence
23:39:41 <elliott> are we sure he can handle it
23:41:46 <Taneb> elliott, could you handle it, when you found out?
23:41:51 <Taneb> I certainly couldn't
23:45:07 <kmc> http://angelhack.com/ elliott make fun of this, i'm too lazy
23:45:25 <kmc> you can try solving the LEET HACKER puzzle on http://angelhacknyc.eventbrite.com/ for a free ticket (worth $75)
23:46:17 <elliott> kmc: fuck fuck fuck poop poop poop shit and their grammar is wrong
23:47:27 <Bike> this is the big leagues
23:47:49 <Bike> i don't see the puzzle. is the puzzle finding the puzzle under all this crap
23:48:01 <kmc> "Free Developer Ticket Code:"
23:48:11 <Bike> "Previous winners include: Microryza, Osper, Testlio, TapFame, WeFunder, Kloutron, & Airpost" n ever heard of any of these and they sound like dr seuss characters
23:48:31 <kmc> Microryza is like a KICKSTARTER for SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH
23:48:32 <Bike> is that. fucking binary
23:49:11 <kmc> Osper is a BANK for CHILDREN
23:49:19 <kmc> Testlio is an ODESK for SOFTWARE TESTING
23:49:38 <Bike> i don't know what odesk is either
23:49:40 <Bike> this is hard kmc
23:49:50 <Bike> A description for this result is not available because of this site's robots.txt – learn more. ok well osper's looking good
23:49:53 <kmc> TapFame is a DESIGN PORTFOLIO for MOBILE APP DEVELOPMENT
23:50:01 <elliott> kloutron is a ROBOT for KLOUT
23:50:08 <kmc> WeFunder is a KICKSTARTER for STARTUPS
23:50:19 <elliott> a kickstarter for kickstarter clones
23:50:37 <Bike> holy fuck these are actual descriptions
23:50:56 <elliott> apparently barack obama has 99 klout
23:51:04 <ion> #esoteric is like an IRC CHANNEL for PEOPLE
23:51:05 <elliott> which makes me wonder what the fuck you need to do to get 100 klout
23:51:06 <kmc> KlouTron is an EXERCISE GAME for IPAD
23:51:25 <Bike> "Can photons whisper loud enough to detect cancer?" darn and here i was thinking microryza might be a good idea
23:51:44 <Bike> "Physical experience of emotion: an early marker of Parkinson's Disease?" what on earth
23:52:02 <Bike> god knows academia is a fucking broken system but i don't think this is gonna help
23:52:19 <Bike> "Do coal and diesel trains make for unhealthy air?"
23:52:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:53:02 <Bike> haha the photon one turns out to be "Micro-optical sensor for cancer screening" when you actually click on it
23:53:24 <kmc> i like the idea of doing a kickstarter on actual kickstarter to build a kickstarter clone for kickstarting more kickstarter clones
23:54:08 <ion> `run words --english 20 | ghc -e 'interact (unlines . map reverse . lines)' | hyphenate.fi | ghc -e 'interact (unlines . map reverse . lines)'
23:54:13 <Bike> kickstartest, we'll call it
23:54:26 <ion> `run words 20 | ghc -e 'interact (unlines . map reverse . lines)' | hyphenate.fi | ghc -e 'interact (unlines . map reverse . lines)'
23:54:35 <Bike> that's p. angocentric, words
23:54:37 <HackEgo> myt-e frig-en-der klot-tiav-y-ap cet-en raj-har mow dub-ett kak-kan wes-sem-ba che gjre fran-tit-u mes-us-son mal-ted seil mon-a the an-nin-el depl kan
23:55:18 <Bike> klottiavyap doesn't seem very english
23:55:49 <ion> `run </etc/motd ghc -e 'interact (unlines . map reverse . lines)' | hyphenate.fi | ghc -e 'interact (unlines . map reverse . lines)'
23:55:56 <HackEgo> bash: /etc/motd: No such file or directory
23:57:03 <kmc> klottiavyapstarter
23:57:21 <fizzie> `run words 10 # "--eng-1M" is what the default option is called.
23:57:25 <HackEgo> acea trulari zemlie advanging tjieux elekt war zimummunearnam pure portulant
23:57:41 <kmc> aw none of you solved the puzzle, that undercuts my plan to make fun of how easy it is
23:57:42 <fizzie> The Tomb of Zimummunearnam.
23:58:41 <fizzie> The esolangs name generation of `words tends to work unreasonably well, every time I've used it.
23:58:42 <Bike> kmc: i id those in middle school man
23:58:44 <Bike> i'm too elite now