00:02:21 <HackEgo> 4dl bf-pda track rainfuck var q-bal cleaseporient suff puzzlang bit
00:02:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:03:12 <elliott> kmc: you didn't tell me where the puzzle is
00:03:21 <fizzie> (bf-pda and rainfuck are of course brainfuck derivatives. Probably a couple of the others too.)
00:03:24 <kmc> i tried but you can't fucking read elliott
00:03:43 <Sgeo> "There is no i in illiterate"
00:04:02 <elliott> i almost want to get it now
00:05:20 <kmc> github has syntax highlighting for brainfuck
00:05:47 <elliott> omg barack actually has a klout of 98
00:06:03 <elliott> Barack's Topics: [...] Barack Obama [...]
00:06:46 <fizzie> kmc: Also for Befunge. ("primary_extension:.befunge"? What the.)
00:06:53 <Koen_> can we stop talking about that O'Bama fellow I'm fed up with all those irish people
00:07:16 <fizzie> Maybe it doesn't have syntax highlighting, though; but it's a "known language".
00:07:46 <fizzie> "All languages have an associated lexer for syntax highlighting" well then.
00:07:53 <nooodl> ive solvede the puzel :)) :)
00:20:43 <Bike> http://suspiriadeprofundis.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Comet.jpg
00:22:11 <elliott> oh boy, this is about mencis moldbug?
00:22:18 <Phantom_Hoover> i've heard something about neo-reactionists somewhere...
00:22:41 <Bike> wait do actually know who moldbug is
00:24:18 -!- tswett has changed nick to beeeeeeeeees.
00:24:38 <Bike> i know that he exists in the same way brainfuck derivatives exist
00:25:02 <Phantom_Hoover> "If you are not familiar with Mencius Moldbug he is a longwinded Jacobite writer out of New York City."
00:25:27 <mnoqy> Bike: have you seen the synchronicity diagram
00:25:44 <coppro> mnoqy: have you seen the circuitous diagram?
00:25:51 <Bike> mnoqy: i don't think so
00:26:08 <mnoqy> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sch%C3%A9ma_synchronicit%C3%A9_in_English.png
00:26:17 <mnoqy> Diagram illustrating concept of synchronicity by CG Jung
00:26:34 <Bike> jung is the best
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00:28:16 <elliott> i think my first exposure to moldbug may have been via nock/urbit (http://moronlab.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/nock-maxwells-equations-of-software.html) and then i read enough to write him off as entertainingly batshit
00:28:33 <Bike> oh shit that was him
00:29:39 <Bike> i feel unclean
00:29:43 <elliott> it says right at the top that mencius didn't write it!
00:30:00 <elliott> or are you speaking of something else unmentioned
00:30:06 <Bike> no i mean the link
00:30:21 <Bike> i remember looking at it and it had some dumbass diagram and something about WWII politics that was made up and probably racist
00:31:20 <Bike> oh my god he's been doing this for years
00:31:37 <Bike> pages and pages...
00:32:27 <Bike> just, fuck, ok
00:32:33 <elliott> bike i'm going to voice and devoice you repeatedly unless you immediately offer clarification and nothing but
00:34:05 <Bike> i'm too unclean
00:34:24 <Bike> god has left me
00:34:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike.
00:34:34 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Bike.
00:34:36 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike.
00:34:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Bike.
00:34:45 <elliott> where is your explanation!!
00:35:15 <Phantom_Hoover> the message i'm taking home from this is not to read anything by this guy, ever
00:35:49 <elliott> Bike: i'm going to go to wherever the fuck you are and turn your house upside down unless you immediately specify the value of several referents in your last few real sentences
00:36:50 <Bike> none of my messages have full stops
00:36:52 <Bike> not real sentences
00:37:01 <Bike> `pastelogs Bike.*\.
00:37:25 <elliott> you're being very annoying!!!!
00:37:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21251
00:37:53 <Bike> none of these actually involve me
00:38:27 <Bike> "anyway for a nilcycle you just take a bike-unicycle and remove the wheel, then hook the pedals up to like... a fan that spins really fast to lift you up a little bit" innovative
00:39:15 <elliott> Bike: what is the "that" that was him, what is "the link", what is the thing that "had some dumbass diagram", what is the thing that he (who is he) has been "doing for years"
00:40:05 <Bike> i think i sound really dumb in logs
00:40:12 <Bike> elliott: ok the he is moldbug
00:40:45 <elliott> Bike: ok that's one piece of information
00:40:53 <Bike> «2012-11-11.txt:05:24:55: <Bike> sometimes I have a transient wish that just for a brief moment words would mean things...» and in that moment i was elliott
00:41:03 <Bike> which "that" you mean
00:41:13 <elliott> 01:28:33 <Bike> oh shit that was him
00:41:20 <Bike> "the link" is the link to moldbug's blog
00:41:22 <Bike> on the nock thing
00:41:40 <Bike> the thing that had some dumbass diagram is that blog
00:41:54 <Bike> the thing he's been doing for years is being a crazy fucker
00:42:11 <elliott> what on earth do you know mencius moldbug for if not writing a crazy-ass blog on the internet for years
00:42:16 <elliott> i didn't realise anyone knew him for anything else at all
00:42:38 <Bike> i know a guy who reads a lot of crazy ass blogs
00:42:46 <Bike> i get "Moldbug updates" through him sometimes
00:44:06 <Bike> except more sad than funny
00:45:41 <elliott> i mean iirc he explicitly calls himself a royalist
00:46:05 <elliott> anyway i like nock/urbit even if the author is a friend of a madman
00:47:31 <mnoqy> should i learn about moldbug this sounds fascinating
00:48:31 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe he went crazy from the stress of having such an awful name
00:49:05 <Bike> mnoqy i'm sorry
00:52:16 <elliott> mnoqy: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/
00:52:39 <elliott> warning: anti-democracy, most likely racist, gigantic posts
00:54:37 <elliott> hm these posts are shorter
00:54:50 <Bike> i glanced at a post and it was about how the climategate people existing meant that the constitution was invalid
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01:12:17 <elliott> great i reread the urbit post and want to write @ again
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01:14:20 <Sgeo> On Oneiric and Linux 3.9
01:14:51 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add
01:14:51 <lambdabot> djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune
01:14:51 <lambdabot> fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma
01:14:51 <lambdabot> karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline
01:14:51 <lambdabot> oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc
01:14:53 <lambdabot> read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc
01:14:55 <lambdabot> topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow
01:15:15 <shachaf> Hmm, that's a bit long. :-(
01:15:18 <shachaf> I always forget how long that is.
01:15:22 <shachaf> lambdabot has too many commands.
01:15:32 <lambdabot> Girl from Ipanema, she goes to Greenland
01:15:37 <lambdabot> am I supposed to be frantic with terror and anxiety?
01:28:01 <lambdabot> His ear lobe fell in the deep. Someone reached in and grabbed it. It was a rock lobster!
01:29:20 * Sgeo decides to use the GUI-based upgrader this time
01:29:22 <lambdabot> You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore, because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference.
01:29:24 <Sgeo> Should be smooth
01:29:24 <lambdabot> You are never going to fail unless you try.
01:34:03 <Bike> http://farmersonly.com
01:34:12 <elliott> FarmersOnly is not accessible from outside the US and Canada.
01:34:35 <Bike> city folks just don't get it™, elliott.
01:35:47 <mnoqy> btw that city folks thing is actually on their logo with the ™ and all
01:36:00 <mnoqy> Meet 1,000s of Down to Earth Country Folks Today!
01:36:34 <coppro> anyone know a good android scratchpad app?
01:36:43 <Sgeo> Is it just me, or are scrollbars weird now
01:36:52 <Sgeo> Which is annoying with my partially broken mouse wheel
01:37:19 <coppro> they've been weird since your birth
01:38:06 <Sgeo> There's just a thin blue line, and hovering over it reveals a control I can drag or click
01:40:14 <kmc> Rob Ford's lawyer's defense re the crack video: "How can you indicate what the mayor is actually doing or smoking?"
01:40:35 <kmc> at the point where your defense is "you can't prove that crack isn't fake" then I think you've already lost political legitimacy
01:40:35 <Bike> has he been impeached or something yet
01:41:27 <Bike> i think you've already lost political legitimacy where something called "buzz feed" has a kickstarter campaign to buy a film of you smoking
01:41:32 <Bike> because: that's some dumb shit
01:42:12 <mnoqy> i havent been following but this sounds pretty rad
01:43:17 <Bike> basically the mayor of toronto is probably a damned politician
01:43:29 <Bike> dude i don't care
01:43:33 <Bike> one of those fucking sites
01:43:47 <kmc> yes it's gawker
01:43:51 <kmc> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rob-ford-crackstarter
01:44:01 <Bike> it's not kickstarter either
01:44:09 <Bike> imo don't get your news from me i lie
01:44:34 <kmc> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?page=all here's the story that broke today about how everyone in his family is a sketchy-ass drug dealer
01:44:50 <kmc> it gets really batshit crazy when they get to his sister
01:44:58 <Bike> yeah i heard about that
01:45:02 <Bike> her boyfriend was a klansman?
01:45:22 <kmc> apparently
01:45:44 <Bike> the canadian klan
01:50:47 <kmc> kkkanadaians
01:50:50 <Bike> as in the ku klux klan
01:51:26 <shachaf> kmc: what book should i read
01:52:50 <ion> shachaf: I’m reading the Revelation Space series at the moment.
01:53:21 <shachaf> i think series should be considered harmful until proven innocent
01:54:10 <ion> shachaf: yes
01:54:56 <ion> http://heh.fi/revelationspace/ I’m at Absolution Gap
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01:55:59 <Bike> The Mind of Primitive Man
02:00:34 -!- beeeeeeeeees has changed nick to tswett.
02:02:03 <ion> READ ALL THE BOOKS
02:05:34 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott won't listen to the One True Reading Order but hopefully you'll have more success
02:05:36 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: btw i found some Cadbury Flake so you don't have to send me any hth
02:05:39 <kmc> i've never smoked crack but i have used a crack pipe
02:05:51 <shachaf> what did you smoke with it
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02:06:07 <Bike> that;s a lot of sci-fi
02:06:47 <Sgeo> When I reach Precise, should I watch DS9 or sleep
02:07:12 <Bike> getcho ass in the game
02:07:30 <elliott> anyone who hasn't watched ds9 and takes actions other than fixing that is questionable tbh
02:07:35 <kmc> is your computer warping forward in time
02:07:53 <elliott> ion: i remember this page being much more involved last time
02:07:56 <Sgeo> yes. It's currently in 2011, but getting to 2012 rapidly
02:08:08 <Sgeo> I think I'll take a break once it's fully in 2012.
02:08:24 <ion> elliott: Involved?
02:08:26 <kmc> smokin' crack in canada, doo dah, doo dah
02:09:00 <shachaf> kmc: was it illegal when you smoked it
02:09:43 <kmc> it wasn't scheduled
02:09:45 <kmc> but analog act
02:11:34 <ion> elliott: Oh, you’re probably referring to the version that asked “is this a good reading order?” with a table promoted by some random web site. A friend of mine said that order sucks (reveals some things too early etc.) and recommended this one.
02:11:36 <Sgeo> People care about Geocities, they archived it, that bit of history.
02:11:46 <quintopia> i watched all of ds9 in a single semester. it was worth it.
02:11:51 <Sgeo> Will the same be done for Active Worlds, before it goes down for good, if it does?
02:11:58 <Sgeo> Or of other virtual worlds?
02:12:31 <Sgeo> The ability to make backups of some parts of Active Worlds does exist.
02:12:41 <Sgeo> Reading them again is a different story
02:12:51 <Sgeo> As is the social aspects -- some of the data could be abused
02:12:57 <Bike> imo hope for mount vesuvius
02:13:03 <Bike> thousands must die for history
02:13:11 <Sgeo> (But not really abusable once AW is gone)
02:15:23 <HackEgo> olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly
02:16:51 <kmc> It's like a KICKSTARTER but for VIDEOS OF POLITICIANS SMOKING CRACK COCAINE!
02:19:22 <shachaf> Sgeo: Since when do we get updates on Saturday?
02:19:31 <kmc> fizzie: so did you extract the qbasic docs with links and everything from the original files that ship with qbasic?
02:19:44 <Sgeo> Since Burlew decides when we get updates and I don't, that's since when.
02:20:02 <Sgeo> Really more of a since why...
02:31:11 <Sgeo> ...I didn't realize Daft Punk was a duo until now
02:31:15 <Sgeo> I blame Interstella 5555
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02:40:16 <shachaf> ion: do you subscribe to `olist........i feel like you should be on that list
02:45:37 <shachaf> 19:44 <cmccann> the most subtle form of crackpottery is the people who aren't wrong, and actually accomplish something, but what they work on is so ill-conceived it will never be useful
02:46:05 <Sgeo> Esolangs are a form of crackpottery?
02:46:22 <shachaf> I wasn't talking about esolangs in particular.
02:48:58 <kmc> is brainfuck a true esolang
02:49:09 <kmc> afaik it wasn't designed to be particularly different or difficult
02:49:16 <kmc> it was designed to be very simple and to have a simple compiler
02:49:32 <Bike> the central dogma of esolangology
02:50:17 <elliott> kmc: it was designed an esolang and is weird, so it gets in pretty much by definition
02:50:31 <kmc> it's not weird :(
02:50:47 <elliott> i mean a very superficial kind of weirdness
02:50:57 <elliott> it's an esolang, just a bad one
02:51:17 <mnoqy> brainfuck isnt a real language
02:51:20 <mnoqy> cheap P'' knockoff
02:51:54 <kmc> double prime all the way
02:52:41 <shachaf> Anyway kmc knows what I was quoting cmccann about.
02:52:47 <kmc> i don't remember
03:06:01 <elliott> i like how it took you twenty minutes from quote to explaining it
03:06:59 <shachaf> > map (pred.pred.pred) "freud"
03:14:14 <shachaf> kmc: did you read any books by vonnegut....id ont remember
03:14:45 <kmc> slaughterhouse five and breakfast of champions
03:14:48 <kmc> and maybe some others i forgot
03:15:09 <shachaf> i think in slaughterhouse five he points out how none of his books have villains in them
03:15:13 <shachaf> well at least people who are villains
03:16:13 <Sgeo> I should get around to reading that book I want to read
03:16:45 <Sgeo> You all want to read that specific book that I like?
03:16:49 <Sgeo> *erm, want to read
03:17:04 <shachaf> you've gotten the mnoqy smiley of death
03:17:09 <shachaf> you'll die within 24 hours
03:18:10 <elliott> Sgeo: what book do you want to read
03:18:35 <Sgeo> The Eternal Flame
03:28:36 <Sgeo> Although I have to admit skimming the science stuff.... well, not real-world science, but pseudoscience is wrong because it's not bad science claiming to be reali science
03:28:54 <Sgeo> internal science?
03:56:05 <kmc> fictional science?
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04:21:18 <Sgeo> Of course my fonts look different
04:21:22 <Sgeo> And stuff is breaking
04:21:32 <Sgeo> Well, I'm on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS at least
04:25:29 <Bike> congratulations, your system is now Bike Quality
04:25:35 <Bike> (hope you have good tech support)
04:25:57 <Sgeo> Ok, why does Chrome still not want to use WebGL?
04:26:02 <shachaf> the rumour goes that haswell will be out in ~2 weeks
04:30:20 <Sgeo> ...."Overrides the built-in software rendering list and enables GPU-acceleration on unsupported system configurations."
04:30:29 <Sgeo> Now wondering what the implications of that are
04:30:35 <Sgeo> Besides suddenly allowing me to use WebGL
04:30:49 <kmc> may cause impotence
04:31:12 * Sgeo is thinking that the fact that enabling that worked implies that this system is not supported, and that there may be a good reason for this
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04:35:02 <HackEgo> sprocklem: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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05:12:52 <Sgeo_> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sepples
05:12:59 <Sgeo_> Why is the server giving me text/plain?
05:16:27 <Sgeo_> http://twoproblems.com/
05:18:35 <Sgeo_> http://twoproblems.com/48 spam?
05:19:21 <Bike> Unlike the rest
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06:37:41 <zzo38> It seems like the audio from the microphone in the RF Famicom is also received by the cartridge (and the expansion port receives the same audio as the cartridge does). (I don't know if any official devices that connect to the expansion port use the sound, though)
07:10:20 <zzo38> They didn't put the Deadfish implementation in LLVM, Z-machine, Nintendo Famicom, etc
07:11:13 -!- Bike has set topic: LLVM, Z-machine, Nintendo Famicom, etc | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | I vote TYHJÄ..
07:19:15 <zzo38> I added the Deadfish implementation in SQL.
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07:23:08 <shachaf> Taneb: elliott has a movie for you to watch
07:23:17 <Taneb> I'll add it to my list
07:23:26 <zzo38> Is this implementation OK?
07:23:59 <shachaf> Taneb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtpVhEgj7tU
07:29:02 <zzo38> Actually, I suppose the decrement might be rewritten like: UPDATE `DEADFISH` SET `VALUE` = `VALUE` - 1 WHERE `VALUE` > 0;
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07:33:31 <Taneb> This is a really awful movie
07:35:59 <Bike> it has like one and a half out of ten on imdb
07:36:45 <shachaf> Taneb: you gotta watch the whole thing
07:37:03 <Taneb> I don't think I can
07:38:21 <Taneb> An old korean woman is singing God Bless America while eating a McDonald's burger
07:38:31 <shachaf> Real Fast Nora is in your bones
07:39:02 <Taneb> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is in my bones!
07:39:28 <Taneb> This is only three quarters of those tokens!
07:40:44 <Taneb> The characters are awful!
07:41:00 <shachaf> You don't need a story to make a good story.
07:41:03 <ais523> Taneb: was that language name actually a spambot name?
07:41:09 <ais523> I assumed it was simply created to resemble a spambot name
07:41:17 <Taneb> It's just a clip show of what happens in a hair salon!
07:41:25 <Taneb> ais523, it was an article posted by a spambot
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07:41:46 <ais523> we need more esolangs named after spam
07:42:40 <zzo38> You need more esolangs named after eggs and spam and spam and eggs and spam; you already have some named after spam.
07:43:37 <Bike> shachaf is this an exorcism
07:46:05 <zzo38> Is this SQL code better now?
07:46:15 <zzo38> (and explanation of its use)
07:47:00 <elliott> Taneb: the problem is you haven't watched nora's hair salon 1-2
07:47:03 <elliott> if you did you'd understand
07:47:43 <Bike> elliott: weren't you talking earlier about how 2 was a departure in the series' overarching plot arc
07:49:24 <elliott> Bike: yes but in retrospect it offers several thematic keys that are necessary for full understanding of its revealed wholeness
07:51:48 <Bike> i;m gonna be honest here i've only seen nora's hair salon's porn parody version
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07:52:22 <mnoqy> i was never aware there was such a deep nora's hair salon culture
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07:58:22 <zzo38> Hopefully now you know, then, if there is such things or not.
08:05:37 <Vorpal> elliott, is "nora's hair salon" an actual legit TV series or movie or something?
08:05:43 <Vorpal> rather than just an esolang
08:06:21 <Vorpal> Oh, it seems like it is indeed
08:06:45 <Vorpal> why name an esolang after it though
08:06:58 <shachaf> A spammer created a page with that name, apparently.
08:07:00 <Bike> what kinda question is that
08:16:20 <Vorpal> Interesting, I'm copying files over NFS from my RPi. Seems the copy speed is disk I/O bound on the RPi, since doing stuff that uses the disk heavily on it slows down the copying by about 2 MiB/s.
08:17:02 <Vorpal> Or hm, I am using a external USB HDD, and the ethernet is also on USB, so that could be the bottleneck
08:37:11 <FreeFull> Maybe you should copy more directly
08:37:37 <FreeFull> I'm thinking 14MiB/s would be a more reasonable rate
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08:48:45 <Vorpal> FreeFull, the RPi doesn't have gbit ethernet though'
08:48:55 <Vorpal> Anyway the copy is done since long, just 1.4 GB to copy
08:52:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
08:54:04 <FreeFull> Vorpal: I mean, attach the HDD to the computer you're copying to
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08:54:57 <Vorpal> FreeFull, the computer I'm copying *to* is not the bottleneck by far. The RPi I'm copying from is the issue
08:55:56 <Vorpal> FreeFull, as for attaching the HDD, no, not really, it is the system disk of the RPi
08:56:16 <Vorpal> And since I use my RPi as a server that would be awkward
09:00:49 <Vorpal> FreeFull, anyway I'm not sure 14 MiB/s would be reasonable, the USB HDD is USB 3 after all
09:00:56 <Vorpal> Not that RPi can use that
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09:29:24 <fizzie> kmc: Yes. I think I may have used some QuickBasic tools to "decompile" the help file first.
09:31:10 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
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09:31:33 <fizzie> kmc: Yes, that's what happened; the tools gave me http://sprunge.us/Bfhb and then some Perl took it from there.
09:31:34 <Vorpal> fizzie, wasn't QuickBasic for DOS or something?
09:32:13 <Vorpal> What did you do with the manual?
09:32:28 <Vorpal> I hoped fungot, but can't spot any new entries
09:32:28 <fungot> Vorpal: it wasn't just whimsical, it was an issue
09:32:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes
09:32:54 <fizzie> Vorpal: I made http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html out of it. This was quite a while back.
09:33:14 <fizzie> (March 2009, if these timestamps are anything to go by.)
09:33:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, I think IPv6 on that host is a bit slow btw
09:33:53 <Vorpal> ipv6.google.com (so it isn't on my end) responds fast but your site took several seconds
09:34:36 <fizzie> (The QBasic help file had more or less the same format as the QuickBasic ones.)
09:35:22 <Vorpal> qbasic sounds like shorthand for quickbasic...
09:35:50 <Vorpal> I gathered as much, which was why I said it was confusing
09:36:21 <HackEgo> 814) <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, your a fucking piece of shit, die and kill your family
09:36:44 <Taneb> `quote on which note I
09:36:49 <Taneb> `quote on which note, I
09:36:50 <HackEgo> 417) <NihilistDandy> Non sequitur is my forte <NihilistDandy> On-topic discussion is my piano <Taneb> Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte <Taneb> Full fat milk is my pianissimo <Taneb> On which note, I'm hungry
09:37:24 <fizzie> shachaf: Apparently it was Phantom_Hoover trying to be a pretend elliott.
09:37:43 <fizzie> (You added the quote yourself.)
09:38:06 <shachaf> someone should probably delete it
09:38:50 <Vorpal> Anyone know an easy way to batch create directories when extracting, neither 7z nor unzip on the command line appear to have options for that. I guess I'll write my own script
09:39:38 <HackEgo> *poof* <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf, your a fucking piece of shit, die and kill your family
09:44:26 <fizzie> Vorpal: unzip blah.zip -d intodir
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09:45:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, yeah I hoped it could auto-gen intodir from blah.zip name
09:45:50 <Vorpal> since I have over 20 zip files..
09:55:44 <FreeFull> Vorpal: You can do that with a script
09:56:08 <Vorpal> I just hoped there was a built in way
09:57:31 <FreeFull> for x in *.zip; do unzip x -d $( basename x .zip ); done
09:57:42 <FreeFull> That's the way you'd do it in bash
09:57:58 <Vorpal> FreeFull, your way is not space safe
09:58:10 <Vorpal> So that would have broken horribly
09:58:19 <Vorpal> also you forgot a few $
09:59:12 <Vorpal> FreeFull, I ended up writing this (since I didn't noticed the -d flag at that point): for i in *.zip; do target="${i/ (MP3).zip/}"; mkdir "$target" && (cd "$target" && unzip "../$i"); done
10:00:12 <Vorpal> (the parens are there to contain the effect of the directory change)
10:03:53 <Vorpal> I don't like how the last line of the dmesg on my RPi is "[674315.948455] [BLOCK] I\x19"
10:04:00 <Vorpal> That doesn't look right at all
10:04:38 <Vorpal> /var/log/kern.log looks normal though
10:47:26 <HackEgo> grep: missing terminating ] for character class \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10129
10:48:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8377
10:49:26 <HackEgo> const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509
10:49:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29668
10:49:54 <HackEgo> ELF............>.....@.....@.................@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@........................................@......@............................................@.......@................... ..................`.....`.................... .................`.....`............................
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11:20:05 <shachaf> I finally understand monoids! monoids are so intuitive now
11:21:32 <Taneb> monoids are just monoids in the category of whatever
11:33:57 <shachaf> @brain are you thinking what oklopol is thinking
11:33:57 <lambdabot> I think so, Brain, but how would we ever determine Sandra Bullock's shoe size?
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11:43:07 <FreeFull> shachaf: Now go onto semigroups and rings
11:46:10 <oklopol> semigroups shouldn't be _that_ hard after monoids
11:47:06 <oklopol> elliott: work, coding, music, geocaching.
11:47:30 <elliott> oklopol: is any of it good
11:47:52 <elliott> need an oklopolian work ethic
11:48:19 <oklopol> mostly i've been concentrating on the work part
11:48:32 <oklopol> if i don't get my phd soon i'm going to die of embarrassment
11:48:58 <oklopol> symbolic dynamics and this
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13:16:26 <oerjan> <elliott> he's too crazy to hate <-- that would be a great tagline, no
13:16:53 <elliott> oerjan: i'll tell it to the WSJ
13:17:27 <oerjan> murdoch: too crazy to hate?
13:18:22 <elliott> i assume you've seen that btw
13:22:38 <oerjan> <kmc> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?page=all here's the story that broke today about how everyone in his family is a sketchy-ass drug dealer
13:23:02 <oerjan> i shall read that with the standard xkcd adjustment
13:24:05 <oerjan> hm that was a really early xkcd
13:24:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: did you not see the wsj thing...
13:24:37 * oerjan doesn't know the wsj thing hth
13:24:54 <elliott> oerjan: Phantom_Hoover: http://catseye.tc/wsj.html
13:25:01 <elliott> linked in here by the dishonourable cpressey
13:27:16 <oerjan> has anyone designed brain[expletitive deleted] yet
13:28:18 <oerjan> i've been skipping logs
13:30:39 <oerjan> ...can the universe survive that
13:31:00 <Phantom_Hoover> so long as Taneb and elliott don't meet we should be fine
13:31:13 <oerjan> okay if you are sure about that
13:32:24 <elliott> it turns out that i was taneb allong....
13:32:43 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: how';s your eodedmoermomoemdiomermoemdoimeoirmdomoeimromdome implementation
13:33:08 <Phantom_Hoover> i never tried making an eodermdrome interpretation, i just tell other people to do it
13:34:19 <oerjan> "Also, it's a little known fact that all esolangers harbour a Howard-Hughes-esque fear of telephones -- I mean, how can you ever be completely sure they've been adequately sanitized, amirite?" <-- wait my fear of telephones and my paranoid hygiene are _entirely_ unrelated matters hth
13:35:55 <elliott> i think oerjan probably is a telephone
13:36:42 <oerjan> also eodedmoermomoemdiomermoemdoimeoirmdomoeimromdome is an _entirely_ unacceptable synonym of eodermdrome, it doesn't even have d and r neighboring hth
13:39:33 <oerjan> oh dear chris actually suggested zzo
13:42:04 <Phantom_Hoover> howard hughes was in at least 3 serious airplane crashes i know of so far
13:46:50 <Phantom_Hoover> "I don't want to dwell on this, but I feel a need to be perfectly clear. When you eat at a restaurant, you don't think about the rats, even though, statistically speaking, they are less than 30 feet away. If you write about esolang, YOU WILL BE WRITING ABOUT THE RATS." help
13:47:00 <oerjan> <shachaf> > map (pred.pred.pred) "freud" <-- hm...
13:47:38 <oerjan> > iterate (map pred) "jung"
13:47:39 <lambdabot> ["jung","itmf","hsle","grkd","fqjc","epib","doha","cng`","bmf_","ale^","`kd...
13:47:57 <oerjan> > iterate (map pred) "cngz"
13:47:58 <lambdabot> ["cngz","bmfy","alex","`kdw","_jcv","^ibu","]hat","\\g`s","[f_r","Ze^q","Yd...
13:48:16 <oerjan> > iterate (map pred) "zkdw"
13:48:18 <lambdabot> ["zkdw","yjcv","xibu","what","vg`s","uf_r","te^q","sd]p","rc\\o","qb[n","pa...
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13:48:31 <oerjan> > iterate (map pred) "vgzs"
13:48:32 <lambdabot> ["vgzs","ufyr","texq","sdwp","rcvo","qbun","patm","o`sl","n_rk","m^qj","l]p...
13:48:54 <oerjan> > iterate (map pred) "ozsl"
13:48:55 <lambdabot> ["ozsl","nyrk","mxqj","lwpi","kvoh","jung","itmf","hsle","grkd","fqjc","epi...
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13:54:05 <oerjan> <zzo38> You need more esolangs named after eggs and spam and spam and eggs and spam; you already have some named after spam. <-- he has a point there
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14:19:42 <ion> shachaf: What’s the olist?
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14:55:48 <Phantom_Hoover> wtf is this syndication thing american tv keeps going on about
14:55:56 <elliott> its whre you syndicajtei :)))
14:59:20 <tswett> elliott: oh shit I forgot to tell you.
14:59:23 <tswett> You have a baby brother now!
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15:50:48 <cpressey> ooh, that's a tough one. is it CHIP-8?
15:54:17 <coppro> only 230000 more graphs to generate
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17:05:20 <Sgeo_> What would be awesome: An HTML5 client for BYOND servers.
17:07:16 <Koen_> was that a question.
17:08:47 <Sgeo_> It was a statement.
17:15:33 <kmc> Phantom__Hoover: like syndicating TV shows? after the first run they sell off the rights to re-run the show
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17:43:40 <Sgeo_> So glad Moonlight works on Linux
17:43:52 <Sgeo_> But why can't I login to Robozzle dammit
17:48:33 <Koen_> I'm afraid the part of my brain dedicated to robozzle might be too big for my own good if I keep learning about that stack
17:48:59 <kmc> moonlight being the silverlight implementation? or what
17:55:35 <Sgeo_> Going to go watch some DS9
17:58:59 <cpressey> hi zzo38 would you like to give an interview from someone from the wall street journal?
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17:59:37 <cpressey> zzo38: http://catseye.tc/wsj.html <-- read
17:59:57 <cpressey> everyone else: http://i4.minus.com/ibmS7uAFLGOZ0n.jpg
18:01:01 <cpressey> zzo38: i'm perfectly happy to direct them straight to you, if you'd like to talk with them
18:01:39 <kmc> cpressey: you should spell it "nut graf" if you really want to be all J-school
18:02:06 <cpressey> kmc: noted and thank you for your authenticity-enhancing tip
18:04:30 <kmc> esolangs don't get much traction on Hacker News because they rarely have web frameworks or million-dollar Series A rounds
18:05:10 <FreeFull> Someone should write a web framework in brainfuck
18:05:28 <kmc> it's probably been done, because brainfuck is so popular
18:05:29 <FreeFull> Or compile one down to brainfuck at least
18:05:45 <Koen_> careful what you wish for! also I wouldn't be surprised if I were to find out it already existed
18:06:04 <Sgeo_> Amazon wants me to update Flash. I am using the last version of standalone Flash that Adobe put out for Linux. If I switch to the more up-to-date thing that comes with Chrome, it will complain because that has no DRM.
18:06:33 <kmc> https://github.com/masylum/Brainfuck-on-Rails
18:07:12 <kmc> it's 20 MB of code
18:08:10 <Koen_> (I'm not surprised)
18:09:04 <Jafet> 20 MB of security holes
18:10:09 <FreeFull> Jafet: Brainfuck can't read from disk, only read the input and write to the output
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18:10:53 <kmc> https://github.com/ticklemynausea/gobsprogram/pull/4 a productive afternoon
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18:16:44 <Jafet> https://github.com/ticklemynausea/gobsprogram
18:16:49 <Jafet> That list is pretty small
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18:19:14 <AnotherTest> "every language" They still have a lot of work
18:20:29 <Koen_> how many different african dialects does that include?
18:21:49 <Jafet> Someone actually made the xkcd tetris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_giTK__WVOw
18:22:44 <Koen_> Jafet: have you looked at that "not tetris" program from that "stabyourself" guy who also made mario-portal?
18:23:13 <Bike> Not Tetris 2 is fantastic
18:23:47 <Bike> anyway http://drilbert.tumblr.com
18:23:56 <myname> soneone should port all that stuff to android
18:24:34 <Koen_> Jafet: hmm for a game called "hell tetris" the video looks incredibly tolerant
18:24:56 <myname> i like the idea of bastet
18:25:50 <Koen_> I mean, I don't want to make any nonfunny sex joke but he inserts some pieces is some holes that look much too small for me
18:27:42 <Sgeo_> Installing libhal1 and hal worked
18:27:45 <Jafet> Hell is getting mad that you can't get any lines in hell tetris
18:29:19 <myname> bastet is short for bastard tetris which is pretty much like regular tetris, except the fact that it calculates the usefulness of all available stones and always gives you the ones that will help you the least
18:29:24 <Jafet> You know, possibly the only thing from HAL that actually works today is that computers can beat people at chess
18:29:37 <Jafet> Everything else is bad 60s scifi
18:33:24 <Jafet> myname: bastet doesn't actually give the worst piece, because the programmer thought that it would be too difficult
18:33:39 <Jafet> Then some people beat the game
18:34:36 <kmc> Sgeo_: yeah i had to do that for DRM'd videos on Hulu
18:34:36 <Jafet> Well, giving the worst piece would be too predictable
18:35:06 <myname> Jafet: isn't it beaten because it is predictable?
18:35:44 <kmc> i don't get this idea of putting DRM on digital distribution of shows that are free over the air anyway
18:35:55 <kmc> it only takes ONE person to put it on Bittorrent
18:36:10 <Jafet> But until that person shows up
18:36:53 <Jafet> myname: if that's the case, then bastet sounds like crap
18:38:19 <kmc> does the text on drilbert come from anywhere in particular?
18:38:26 <Bike> i have no idea
18:38:56 <Bike> oh, "Tweets by @Dril"
18:39:42 <zzo38> cpressey: I don't know, sorry.
18:39:50 <zzo38> cpressey: I don't think I am able.
18:40:25 <Bike> «@ernest_borg9 @RichardDawkins impossible. for he has already denounced the neologism "OWned", and i cannot own him, nor him me,»
18:40:28 <kmc> http://24.media.tumblr.com/51cfac4f0763b0c76df19bc72de4ab6a/tumblr_mlfbgcQ9n31sou3fto1_250.png
18:43:28 <Sgeo_> What are hal and libhal1 anyway?
18:46:00 <Jafet> It's a program that takes over all your hardware
18:47:13 <Sgeo_> kmc, well, could be laziness ... same reason it makes 'sense' to have data bounce off of cell tower and back to message someone just down the hallway
18:47:30 <Sgeo_> The infrastructure is there, are you going to start making special cases?
18:49:41 <kmc> Sgeo_: well I know that for Hulu, most of the content isn't DRMed, because I could use it fine, and then one day i had to install hal/libhal1 to watch an episode of Community
18:49:49 <kmc> so I conclude that NBC made them turn it on for that show specifically
18:50:00 <kmc> which is pretty weird
18:56:40 <Phantom__Hoover> i wish i could live in your capitalist paradise rather than kneeling before the fist of socialism
19:02:39 <kmc> it is pretty great
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19:08:14 <kmc> fizzie: your line drawing is broken around "\\ Integer division symbol"
19:08:43 <zzo38> cpressey: I think your letter to Wall Street Journal is good; make it in the IRC. Certainly I am able to do it in the IRC, and so are you, I guess.
19:09:41 <cpressey> zzo38: if you're here while it's happening, feel free to chip in. note: the likelihood of the reporter agreeing to do it on IRC is thought to be small
19:10:05 <zzo38> Probably you are correct.
19:10:10 <kmc> and a few other places that backslashes appear
19:12:44 <cpressey> zzo38: can i still make the reporter try to contact you, if they don't agree to my conditions? it sounds like a nice task to set before them. if they succeed in contacting you, you can then refer them to (i dunno, let's say) oerjan.
19:13:37 <fizzie> kmc: It's because the integer division symbol is \.
19:14:10 <fizzie> kmc: <fizzie> Yeah, it has \\s in place of \s, which breaks some formatted tables, for example.
19:14:26 <fizzie> (I suppose you missed that.)
19:14:29 <zzo38> cpressey: Sure, you can, but I don't think they can. I can probably tell them a few things too, refer them to oerjan, who tell them some more thing and refer to someone else and then they tell some more things until it is complete, but clearly it seem this way is not as good as using the IRC.
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19:20:40 <cpressey> zzo38: I agree, but sometimes, you just have to make do with what you got. thanks!
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19:29:02 * kmc is a huge fan of line drawing characters
19:30:09 <Bike> do you moderate a line drawing characters fandom forum
19:31:26 <zzo38> kmc: Using CP437 or Unicode or shift-in/shift-out line drawing or ASCII approximations or all of them or something else entirely?
19:32:04 <zzo38> When doing line drawing I usually use CP437 or ASCII approximations, although you might use whatever is necessary for whatever is being done.
19:32:21 <zzo38> There is also the Zork runic font which also contains line drawing.
19:34:40 <zzo38> Well, it is an encoding for Unicode. But, if you use Unicode for line drawing how are you going to supposed to know if the text is the correct width that it will line up properly?
19:36:24 <Bike> the lack of han characters for drawing lines is a major weakness of the orthography IMO
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19:37:19 <kmc> zzo38: the same way I know in any other character encoding?
19:37:44 <AnotherTest> hm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham%27s_line_algorithm looks interesting
19:38:05 <zzo38> kmc: But in Unicode it is ambiguous.
19:38:25 <Bike> AnotherTest: i wish i'd known that back when i played with TIs
19:38:48 <AnotherTest> Bike: as a matter of fact, that's what I'm doing nowadays
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19:39:15 <AnotherTest> well, during eg. religion class (note: this is confidential, do not leak)
19:39:19 <zzo38> cpressey: Maybe you should write more about Z-machine? I know some things about Z-machine and have written an assembler and interpreter and an addendum to the standards document; so if there are some things you don't know, you can try to ask me and maybe I know or don't know either.
19:39:48 <zzo38> AnotherTest: Then don't post it on the public IRC.
19:39:50 <Bike> AnotherTest: are TIs your religion
19:40:44 <AnotherTest> Not that it was really useful because I couldn't use any key-sizes that were not crackable
19:41:27 <kmc> i should implement RSA in QBASIC
19:42:04 <AnotherTest> kmc: I found that it was pretty annoying, also not that it cost me AT LEAST 5 full classes
19:43:24 <AnotherTest> I had to actually type in the ASCII table (well part of it)
19:43:42 <zzo38> TI-92 has ASCII built-in.
19:43:50 <Bike> there should be a review site for algorithms. RSA 2/5 stars, pretty annoying + took me five whole religion classes to implement + i couldn't even securely sign my notes
19:44:32 <AnotherTest> (well as far as I know, and it's definitely not something you can easily access through TI-Basic)
19:44:42 <zzo38> AnotherTest: O, OK, well, I have a TI-92, but I think TI-83 is more common.
19:44:46 <Bike> Wait, RSA doesn't depend on encoding, why'd you need a table
19:44:56 <AnotherTest> Bike: I wanted to be able to type in strings
19:45:29 <Bike> oh is there not something like that defaultly
19:45:32 <Bike> wow it's been a while
19:46:22 <AnotherTest> You even need to write an asm program to enable lowercase letters
19:47:00 <Bike> heh, i remember finding the asm functions but having no idea how to use them
19:47:34 <AnotherTest> Bike: you write the hexadecimal instructions in a program, you run that program with AsmPrgrm hth
19:48:10 <kmc> not really "asm" then is it :)
19:48:12 <zzo38> I do have the emulator on my computer though, to emulate TI-83, TI-92, etc. (You can download the most recent ROMs from Texas Instruments)
19:48:18 <AnotherTest> But writing asm programs on the calculator itself is generally rather annoying for that reason
19:48:46 <cpressey> zzo38: I don't really know much about the Z-machine; I tried to read the spec once, but all those packed values made my head spin
19:48:48 <kmc> iirc on the 83 not-plus, the syntax for this was even weirder and less documented
19:49:09 <cpressey> that and the virtual memory paging stuff
19:49:15 <AnotherTest> Bike: ever used the GetCalc functions? That's great fun
19:49:31 <Bike> i'm not a "hardcore" calculator programmer
19:49:50 <AnotherTest> I used them to make some really boring game before
19:50:26 <Bike> my friend made a simple platformer with walljumping
19:50:43 <Bike> «'Youth rioting' in Sweden? It's the Muslims, stupid - WND» i'm not sure i want to look this up Phantom__Hoover
19:50:59 <AnotherTest> one disadvantage is that both graphics and GetCalc (and the like) are really slow
19:51:11 <Bike> actually WND is an american site
19:51:21 <Bike> AnotherTest: yeah it was like half a second between frames `-`
19:51:36 <AnotherTest> which makes writing games with graphics in TI-Basics pretty much impossible (well not if you want good graphics)
19:51:44 <kmc> WorldNetDaily? yeah it's right wing conspiracy nonsense
19:52:08 <AnotherTest> But if you write them in Z80, the result can be surprisingly fast
19:52:16 <zzo38> cpressey: Virtual memory paging stuff?
19:52:17 <Phantom__Hoover> i like how this is basically exactly the same as the uk riots back in the day
19:53:02 <Bike> man all my news is just about the code pink activist
19:53:04 <zzo38> AnotherTest: Well, I have written games for TI-92 that doesn't use graphics, and I used other tricks to speed it up even more; specifically, I made a solitaire card game. At first the shuffling was slow but I figured out how to make it fast.
19:53:07 <Bike> why can't we have some good riots, america!!
19:53:31 <cpressey> zzo38: it was a long time ago so my memory is basically nil, but i thought the Z-machine had multiple tiers of memory (and you access the higher tiers, which are swapped from disk on a small system, using packed addresses or something)
19:54:21 <AnotherTest> zzo38: sure, some optimizations can be made. And indeed using no graphics (or graphics that don't have animations) works too
19:54:42 <Bike> Phantom__Hoover: i don't know, i'm not a riot enthusiast, just a dabbler
19:54:51 <cpressey> a VM meant for 8-bit systems that accesses >64K of memory has a complex memory access system, who'd've guessed
19:55:03 <Bike> other news quotes: " same as the uk riots back in the day
19:55:04 <Bike> 12:53 < Bike> man all my news is just about the code pink activist
19:55:08 <Bike> " same as the uk riots back in the day
19:55:09 <Bike> 12:53 < Bike> man all my news is just about the code pink activist
19:55:17 <zzo38> cpressey: There is multiple tiers of memory, which are dynamic, static, and high. High memory can only contain text strings and instructions though, and the interpreter may use virtual memory to implement it, but to the Z-machine itself it is probably like Harvard memory, I suppose.
19:55:31 <kmc> multiple tyres of memory
19:55:31 <zzo38> However it isn't really Harvard since it is possible to store text strings and instructions in RAM, too.
19:56:01 <Bike> i am not competent enough to paste into terminals
19:56:06 <Phantom__Hoover> Bike, oh, you're not using xchat (xchat fucks up my copy/paste all the time as well)
19:56:20 <Bike> "I really don't get the hate for this guy. according to your information, all he did was eating the heart of a dead body."
19:56:52 <zzo38> The dynamic and static memory is really the same except that only the dynamic memory has to be stored in RAM and in save files and undo buffer; static memory acts exactly the same as dynamic memory except that you may not write to it. High memory is also the same except that there are many more restrictions on its use.
19:57:02 <Sgeo_> Oh, a text adventure ... thingy
19:57:05 <Sgeo_> Ok, not a real machine
19:57:13 <Bike> a virtual machine used for text adventures
19:57:58 <Bike> "Gabon without France is like a car with no driver. France without Gabon is like a car with no fuel..." meanwhile in the past
19:59:09 <zzo38> Also, you have under 6502 machine code, Commodore 64, Atari 2600 VCS, Commodore VIC-20, Apple II, but there are more such as the Nintendo Family Computer. However, in the Nintendo Family Computer, the traces that implement decimal mode were physically cut, in order to prevent decimal mode from working (other than this, it is an actual 6502 core).
19:59:52 <FreeFull> Wait, why prevent decimal mode from working?
19:59:53 <kmc> why did they do that?
20:00:23 <zzo38> I think due to patent issues.
20:00:36 <Bike> lol so they just left them in there but prevented them from working?
20:01:03 <zzo38> Yes; the logic for decimal mode is still in there, but the trace that connects it to the rest of the circuit is cut off to prevent it from working.
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20:01:56 <cpressey> we are pretty serious about protecting our patent on decimal arithmetic, see
20:02:10 <Jafet> Then there's intel, who kill cores because they can
20:02:45 <kmc> they do it to sell different products at different price points
20:03:09 <kmc> but a lot of that is parts of the chip that don't work reliably
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20:10:30 <Sgeo_> Clearly we need a Z-machine interpreter in Haskell
20:11:30 <Bike> mathematically pure z machine
20:11:43 <cpressey> i would be surprised if that has not been done
20:12:28 <Sgeo_> "Andrew Plotkin is currently (June 1997) drafting a..."
20:13:29 <Sgeo_> 'To call itself "Standard", an interpreter should (as far as anyone knows) obey this document exactly for every Version of the Z-machine it claims to interpret.'
20:13:35 <Sgeo_> As far as anyone knows, bwahahaha
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20:13:50 <kmc> no you need a z-machine interpreter in Agda
20:13:57 <kmc> and a proof of its correctness
20:14:11 <cpressey> here's standards, here's reality, and never the twain shall meet
20:14:41 <zzo38> I think there is Z-machine interpeter in Haskell.
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20:15:22 * kmc thinks about the morality of lasering out parts of a chip to sell it for cheaper
20:15:36 <kmc> seems clear they should be allowed to do it, but would the world be a better place if they didn't
20:16:10 <kmc> clearly they think this results in more money coming in, and that money goes to R&D for new chips
20:17:02 <kmc> it allows big companies and military atom bomb simulators to subsidize cheap computers for the rest of us
20:17:12 <kmc> so I think i'm pretty much OK with it
20:17:33 <copumpkin> kmc: do you like crying? http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-have-your-spouse-die
20:17:40 <kmc> copumpkin: no
20:17:44 <Jafet> kmc: well, think about it another way
20:17:59 <kmc> Phantom__Hoover: yes
20:18:05 <Jafet> You get cheap atom chips partly subsidized by gamers who buy 970s
20:18:12 <Bike> i can't even think of it as a moral issue
20:18:21 <kmc> Phantom__Hoover: they do it more now that they aren't allowed to actually test the damn things
20:18:33 <Jafet> If they didn't bin, they would probably move prices into a smaller range
20:18:58 <Bike> huh, so there were no nuclear detonations between 1998 and 2013? that's kind of nice
20:19:08 <kmc> what about north korea
20:19:09 <Phantom__Hoover> kmc, do they still bother developing nukes (what am i saying of course they do)
20:19:19 <Bike> kmc: that's the 2013
20:19:26 <kmc> Phantom__Hoover: the US hasn't introduced a new warhead design in a while, but they're really worried about the old ones falling apart
20:19:35 <Jafet> Has anyone detected fallout from north korea
20:19:47 <kmc> Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Korean_nuclear_tests 2009 and maybe 2006
20:19:56 <kmc> Jafet: yes
20:20:00 <Phantom__Hoover> i heard stories that they'd managed to make a uranium bomb which then fizzled
20:20:17 <kmc> Jafet: i thought so? but maybe I can't find the link now
20:20:31 <Phantom__Hoover> this is impressive because fizzling is generally only an issue with plutonium
20:20:53 <zzo38> I have made up version 9 and 10 of Z-machine, and written other recommendations and clarifications related to Z-machine, including ones related to interpreter numbers. There are also some things in the document that are clearly mistakes.
20:21:04 <kmc> i don't know how much binning results from intentionally destroying chips vs. yield on subcomponents
20:21:24 <Bike> well, eight years then, that's... mediocre\
20:21:35 <Jafet> Since north korea is pretty much isolated from the world, if they keep the radiation in north korea I don't really care
20:21:54 <Bike> what a bizarre sentiment
20:22:12 <kmc> it all becomes global soon enough
20:22:14 <Jafet> Compare to, say, american nuclear tests
20:22:38 <kmc> (if we are talking about fallout and not just the radiation from the explosion itself)
20:25:45 <zzo38> I also am making the Z-Comp with is a competition for writing Z-machine games. Go to ifMUD, enter apartment 11011, and then go northwest.
20:27:57 <zzo38> There are some rules such as: no version 6, no Unicode, no Blorb, no extra sound effects, and you have to make the SHA-1 checksum when posting the file.
20:29:35 <kmc> what's a blorb
20:29:48 <Bike> it's a text adventure extentiony format, iirc
20:33:06 <zzo38> Version 10 can have up to 256K RAM, and up to 2M ROM, so you may be able to have many more objects and text than how much fits in a version 7 or 8 story file.
20:34:22 <Sgeo_> There's a version 10?
20:34:33 <Sgeo_> Crud, this thing I'm reading only describes up to 8 I think
20:35:00 <Sgeo_> zzo38, hmm... ifMUD has apartments?I
20:35:19 <Bike> what's the rent like
20:35:24 <zzo38> Version 9 and 10 is something I added to the Z-machine standard, as well as other things; see: http://zzo38computer.org/zmachine/z9.txt
20:35:36 <zzo38> Sgeo_: ifmud.org port 4000 to connect
20:35:46 <zzo38> Bike: You don't have to pay rent, you just need an account.
20:35:55 <Bike> is the landlord decent
20:36:00 <Sgeo_> I know M*U*S*H has apartments
20:36:06 <zzo38> Bike: Yes, I think so.
20:37:14 <Sgeo_> zzo38, is ifMUD supposed to only be able interactive fiction?
20:37:40 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Mainly. Not necessarily only.
20:39:28 <Sgeo_> Maybe I'll try again later
20:40:23 <Sgeo_> Hmm, it's mostly conversational these days?
20:40:31 <Sgeo_> Reminds me of LambdaMOO a bit if so
20:40:32 <zzo38> I just use nc and it works fine, so see if it works better?
20:40:47 <Bike> You use netcat for a mud?
20:40:49 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Mainly, although there are many other things too, you can look around at various things.
20:41:21 <Sgeo_> Is it MUSH based? I think I like the MOO concepts better, from a purely programming perspective
20:41:31 <Sgeo_> If ifMUD is anything like M*U*S*H
20:41:46 <zzo38> Bike: Yes, it works just fine for me, although it might be improve if the input/output are in different colors.
20:42:30 <Sgeo_> Will learning about Z-machines help at all understanding real machines?
20:42:42 <kmc> the only real machine is the transistor, hth
20:42:54 <zzo38> Sgeo_: I don't know, but ifMUD using JotaCode programming. Your description is allowed to contain a program if you want to (my own description doesn't, although some of my other fields and objects contain programs).
20:43:15 <Bike> what do you want to learn about Real Machines
20:43:27 <zzo38> My own dbref in ifMUD is #20071 (in case you need it for any reason)
20:43:42 <Sgeo_> I haven't seen JotaCode
20:44:03 <Sgeo_> Ick, fundamental types
20:44:09 <Sgeo_> Yeah, probably going to get MUSH
20:44:42 <zzo38> My plan contains a JotaCode program (although programs don't run in plans, but % substitutions do run in plans).
20:44:48 * Sgeo_ starts reading http://www.plover.net/~davidw/jotatips.html
20:45:12 <zzo38> @print(@setfield(*player,"plan",@fieldloop("%4","",@replace("%f %v%c","%%","%%%%"))),"OK.")
20:45:47 <Sgeo_> So, is there some way to get the dbref of the room without saying it outloud?
20:46:04 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Yes. Type "examine here", or "ex here" if you have an account.
20:46:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:46:42 <Sgeo_> ....why 'if I have an account'? Are guests unable to examine
20:46:47 <zzo38> Many of my own objects (including myself) are set examinable, so you can see codes that way.
20:46:57 <zzo38> Sgeo_: No, guests cannot abbreviate.
20:47:10 <Bike> that's a weird restriction...
20:48:04 <Sgeo_> In LambdaMOO, if you want to write code, you need to get a programmer's bit. It's easy to get one automatically by asking an NPC butler, but it's still a thing you have to do
20:48:32 <zzo38> If ifMUD you automatically get it just by having an account.
20:49:16 <zzo38> Since all accounts have it and guests don't, Z-Comp uses it to prevent guests from entering and voting (although guests can still view it).
20:55:43 <nooodl> zzo38: why no unicode?
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20:57:57 <zzo38> nooodl: Because this Z-Comp is ZSCII only.
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21:03:08 <Taneb> I kinda want to learn how to make Minecraft mods
21:03:18 <Taneb> But I have a worrying feeling that that involves learning Java
21:03:29 <kmc> Java's fine
21:03:37 <kmc> i mean it's not fun to write
21:03:46 <kmc> but the language is pretty simple and reasonable, there isn't a lot of crazy bullshit to learn
21:04:07 <Jafet> The libraries more than make up for that...
21:04:10 <Taneb> cpressey, since when do I know Java?
21:04:24 <kmc> yes, I suppose some of the libraries are crazy bullshit...
21:05:20 <cpressey> Taneb: my mistake. I thought you already knew Java.
21:05:25 <Bike> how many libraries do you need for minecraft
21:05:36 <Taneb> Bike, possibly LWJGL
21:06:05 <Jafet> Well, you probably need the standard libraries
21:07:54 <Taneb> So, the question is, should I learn Java?
21:08:23 <Bike> put it on your resume. learn javabeans
21:08:33 <Jafet> You should learn mining
21:09:09 <Jafet> It's "close to the metal" as they say
21:09:43 <Bike> "psh, you learn assembly? that's not close enough to the ore" i say, coughing coal dust in your face
21:10:40 <Jafet> Coal isn't a metal, you poser
21:11:03 <Taneb> There's an old lead mine near here
21:12:09 <kmc> “Mines are supposed to be *below* ground, I’d thought,” Jones continued.
21:12:09 <kmc> “Aren’t you a graduate of the Colorado School of Mines?” Zula asked.
21:12:09 <kmc> Jones, for once, looked a bit sheepish. “They should probably change the name. It’s not just about that. I only went there to learn how to blow things up. I don’t know squat about mines really.”
21:12:45 <Bike> i know a guy who attended that school! i should ask him about destroying things
21:13:26 <Bike> Oh, is Reamde good?
21:13:50 <kmc> yeah i had fun reading it, it consumed most of my free time from beginning to end
21:14:24 <kmc> that said it's more of a straightforward techno-thriller a la Clancy, rather than the trademark Stephenson meandering world-building
21:15:19 <Bike> i'm not sure what to think of stephenson now that i've realized "he's serious", so to speak
21:15:32 <kmc> well Snow Crash isn't a very serious book
21:15:51 <kmc> it's definitely a send-up of 80s cyberpunk, even as it embraces the awesomeness of the genre
21:16:28 <kmc> i don't know, what do you mean by that exactly
21:17:06 <Bike> well uh, have you read in the beginning was the command line
21:17:15 <kmc> no / not in a long time
21:17:39 <Bike> well he like divides society into people who know what they're doing and people who just go along with it
21:18:11 <Bike> and well i'm not really sure what to think of the views of society in his books ay more
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21:18:33 <Bike> course. i haven't read an actual novel in over a year, anyway
21:18:56 -!- rashni has left.
21:18:57 <kmc> i never got a strong sense that he's preaching about How Society Really Works in any of his books
21:19:06 <kmc> maybe Diamond Age a bit
21:19:12 <Jafet> Isn't that how society really works
21:19:29 <Jafet> Well, there's also the people who only think they know
21:19:55 <Bike> a nuanced and realistic analysis of society and policy
21:21:38 <kmc> pigs, dogs, and sheep
21:22:31 <kmc> ha ha, charade you are
21:29:16 <Sgeo_> Are there any languages designed to compile into Z-machine code?
21:29:27 <Sgeo_> Could Haskell be made to compile into Z-machine code?
21:29:57 <zzo38> Sgeo_: There is ZIL and Inform, and I am working on writing Berzio.
21:30:10 <kmc> once you start down the zzo38 path, forever will it dominate your destiny
21:30:15 <zzo38> I suppose a Haskell library could be made to represent Z-machine code and then compile it into a Z-machine story file.
21:30:46 <Sgeo_> Although I think my mind wants to abuse the Writer monad all the time
21:30:50 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Using monads and/or whatever, I suppose
21:31:57 <zzo38> I was thinking, use Typeable to represent global variables, routines, objects, etc and then use SSA or something like that, and use ContT monad to make up some monad to make a Z-machine code, and then use datatypes which are compile into a Z-machine story file or assembly language.
21:32:04 <kmc> Sgeo_: http://imgur.com/4GoXLSB did you get to this part in The Tangled Web yet? i'm thinking about this attack and I think I understand what's going on
21:32:30 <zzo38> Inform has various restrictions, so some others might be better for many things.
21:32:30 <kmc> pretty tricky
21:32:32 <Sgeo_> "Each object in the tree may have a parent, a sibling and a child. "
21:32:47 <Sgeo_> Only one child? Maybe just one pointer to a child?
21:33:04 <zzo38> Sgeo_: It means the first child. It is the number of the child, not the address.
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21:33:59 <Sgeo_> You can set a cookie to secure, but you can't say 'for this domain, only accept secure cookies'
21:34:27 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit).
21:34:34 <Sgeo_> Oh, hmm, says you'd need to 'overflow the cookie jar'
21:34:40 <kmc> HSTS might mitigate this though
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21:34:49 <kmc> I don't think you need to overflow the cookie jar though
21:35:32 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
21:35:41 <kmc> i'm thinking about an attacker who has a network MITM capability and also controls a malicious site (well, they can get that using the MITM too, but irrelevant)
21:36:14 <Sgeo_> zzo38, http://www.gnelson.demon.co.uk/zspec/overview.html
21:36:30 <Sgeo_> In that example object tree, would "small mailbox" have a parent?
21:36:36 <kmc> the malicious site makes an unencrypted request to the target site, it doesn't even matter if that server listens on port 80 because the attacker MITMs the request and responds with a Set-Cookie header setting the CSRF token cookie
21:36:42 <Sgeo_> Even those West of House's child is you, and not small mailbox?
21:37:27 <Sgeo_> kmc, what if a secure cookie is already set, how would the browser respond in that case if you didn't overflow the jar, I think is the question
21:37:28 <kmc> then they can construct a proper request forgery to the real HTTPS site including the correct token
21:37:40 <kmc> Sgeo_: doesn't a new Set-Cookie of the same name overwrite the old one?
21:37:55 <kmc> i guess it might refuse to overwrite a secure cookie with a non-secure one, yeah
21:38:17 <Sgeo_> kmc, I thought so, but the fact that that texts suggests overflowing the cookie jar first...
21:38:33 <kmc> so does HSTS mitigate this attack
21:38:53 <kmc> does it prevent making unencrypted requests at all, or does it just translate when the user types foo.com to https://foo.com
21:40:10 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Yes. The location's first child is the player, although the mailbox is one of its children too.
21:40:26 <zzo38> There are also assemblers of Z-machine, such as ZAP and Frolg.
21:40:39 <zzo38> Z-machine can also be programmed in C and in Forth.
21:40:58 <Sgeo_> How about Factor? :D
21:42:31 <zzo38> I do think a Haskell library to represent Z-machine codes would be good to have, though.
21:45:37 <Sgeo_> zzo38, if a game doesn't want to use static memory, is that possible to not have any?
21:46:07 <Sgeo_> Oh I guess you could have $0e point to where the end of static memory would e
21:47:17 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Yes, the static memory is not necessary; dynamic memory acts the same anyways (except that it is also writable, storable in save data, etc)
21:48:07 <Sgeo_> 16-bit addresses. Kind of sucks
21:48:24 <Sgeo_> I guess I have to keep the historical context in mind
21:48:34 <zzo38> There are also packed addresses though.
21:48:59 <Sgeo_> Didn't get up to reading what those are yet
21:49:01 <zzo38> Object property tables, dictionary tables, etc don't use packed addresses, however.
21:49:59 <zzo38> However, my own version 9 and 10 addresses for property table and dictionary table are half and quarter of the actual address, allowing you to have up to 256K RAM.
21:50:36 <zzo38> But, as far as I know, the only interpreter so far that support version 9 and 10 is my own interpreter, called "Fweep".
21:52:10 <Sgeo_> "Note that the total of dynamic plus static memory must not exceed 64K. (In fact, 64K minus 2 bytes.) This is the most serious limitation on the Z-machine (though it has not yet been reached by anyone)."
21:52:18 <Sgeo_> not yet been reached by anyone? o.O
21:52:44 <Bike> 64k is a lot of text innit
21:52:50 <zzo38> Well, it has almost been reached, by now.
21:53:29 <zzo38> Bike: The text is normally stored in ROM, though; the RAM is limited to 64K and that stores object headers, property tables, dictionary tables, and a few other things.
21:53:54 <Sgeo_> zzo38, I thought that static memory was the ROM?
21:54:06 <Sgeo_> And that 64k was RAM+ROM?
21:54:33 <zzo38> Sgeo_: High memory is also the ROM, although it may actually be stored on disk rather than ROM in some interpreters, it is actually ROM.
21:56:58 <Sgeo_> 'It is dangerous to rely on the ANSI C random number routines, as some implementations of these are very poor. This has made some games (in particular, 'Balances') unwinnable on some Unix ports of Zip.'
21:57:59 <Sgeo_> 'Z-machine text is a sequence of ZSCII character codes (ZSCII is a system similar to ASCII: see S 3.8 below). '
21:58:46 <shachaf> zzo38: There is already a Z-machine implementation in Haskell.
21:58:46 <Sgeo_> Z-characters are 5 bits
21:59:08 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, there is Z-machine interpreter already, but I meant compiler
21:59:09 <shachaf> I once fixed it up to work with modern GHC but never ended up getting the changes merged.
22:01:02 * Sgeo_ wonders if ZSCII is more compact than ASCII for plain English text
22:01:39 <Sgeo_> 5-bit characters. Getting to uppercase characters is done with a special character that shifts the alphabet for the next character.
22:01:43 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Z-character is different from ZSCII, Z-character is 5-bits coding, ZSCII is 8-bits. It is more compact, it is why it is used.
22:01:45 <Sgeo_> (Same with symbols)
22:03:01 <Sgeo_> zzo38, I suspect ALL CAPS-LOCKED TEXT WOULD NOT BE MORE EFFICIENT IN ZSCII THAN ASCII FOR VERSIONS GREATER THAN TWO
22:03:25 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Yes, that is true (unless you set up the alphabet table for all-caps)
22:04:46 <zzo38> Modifying the alphabet table at runtime is possible (so is repointing property tables, and other unusual things), but as far as I know no existing games use that.
22:05:47 <shachaf> Modify the alphabet at runtime to add a CAPS LOCK codepoint.
22:06:03 <Sgeo_> How would you encode 3 Z-characters in ZSCII?
22:06:22 <Sgeo_> How would you encode 4 Z-characters in ZSCII?
22:06:57 <zzo38> ZSCII is a 8-bit encoding it isn't the same as Z-characters. Z-characters is encoded using three in one 16-bit word; you need more than one if you want more than 3 Z-characters.
22:09:09 <Sgeo_> But how do you specify that one or two of the Z-characters in 2 bytes are unused?
22:09:25 <zzo38> You can put extra shifts and shiftlocks in them.
22:09:48 <Sgeo_> What happens if you shift a shift?
22:10:04 <zzo38> I don't know, but if you put them only at the end it doesn't matter.
22:10:06 <Sgeo_> 'In Versions 3 and later, the current alphabet is always A0 unless changed for 1 character only: Z-characters 4 and 5 are shift characters. Thus 4 means "the next character is in A1" and 5 means "the next is in A2". There are no shift lock characters.'
22:10:06 <kmc> not really
22:10:24 <Sgeo_> Does 4 even mean that if the previous character was a shift?
22:10:30 <kmc> shachaf: do you think what I said in ##crypto was fairly reasonable?
22:11:17 <zzo38> Sgeo_: It is unclear; I don't think it is defined, but either way it won't print anything at the end of the Z-characters text, regardless of the state.
22:11:25 <shachaf> I only read the last page or so but it seemed reasonable to me.
22:12:17 <shachaf> This person also says that the worst bug they've ever had in a Haskell program took 15 minutes to fix, or something along those lines.
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22:13:17 <Sgeo_> Z-machine code as a way of compressing English text... only output opcodes allowed...
22:13:20 <Sgeo_> good idea, bad idea?
22:13:39 -!- carado has joined.
22:13:49 <Sgeo_> Although, even just using the text encoding stuff would be a win, possibly especially with abbreviations
22:14:02 <Koen_> all ideas are good aren't they?
22:14:22 <kmc> shachaf: the worst bug I've ever had in a Haskell program took about 2 weeks (on and off) to find
22:14:29 <kmc> it was some subtle math error in a 3D renderer
22:14:46 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Well, it does work; Z-characters is a OK way to compress English text slightly, in a simple way.
22:14:48 <kmc> pretty much impossible for a language to prevent that, I think
22:15:18 <kmc> even with theorem proving, you are just as likely to make that error when you teach the computer the axioms of optics
22:15:27 <kmc> probably a lot more likely because it will be a lot more code
22:15:47 <zzo38> I think you also have to program in the correct kind of logic into the computer?
22:15:48 <shachaf> I like Haskell but I don't think it's a panacea.
22:15:57 <kmc> yep, me too
22:16:03 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, same to me
22:16:46 <kmc> at some point saying "Well, you can write high-performance Haskell code with many years of careful study and huge effort invested into every project" is sort of not a very good endorsement
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22:18:02 <kmc> GHC Haskell performance is great for most projects, certainly for anything where people typically use Python or Ruby or whatever
22:18:45 <zzo38> kmc: I think you are correct, isn't very good in that case, but it is OK for some thing and is OK to make things in the mathematical way done by Haskell programs, even though it might be too large, too slow (if not sufficiently optimized), etc
22:18:53 <kmc> but I'm skeptical of the cases where you introduce a huge amount of ugly and unsafe and compiler-specific and brittle code in order to get acceptable performance
22:19:04 <Sgeo_> zzo38, do a lot of games use custom alphabet tables?
22:19:06 <Bike> "i too think some things are good and other things are bad"
22:19:21 <kmc> unless it's like a core library that's going to be used by a lot of high level idiomatic Haskell code
22:19:51 <Bike> kmc: a while back i saw somebody working on some set of benchmarks with CL by writing in a bunch of inline asm and like what's the damn point
22:20:37 <zzo38> Sgeo_: As far as I know the only one is the German translation of Zork, but I think it could be used in order to modify at runtime to make one part of game type out everything in all-caps or to make all input/output to be ROT13 in one location, or whatever
22:21:36 <Sgeo_> Maybe I should try Zork at some point
22:21:40 <kmc> Bike: yeah. the ATS examples in the Shootout are like that as well, iirc
22:21:52 <Sgeo_> 'The character set of the Z-machine is called ZSCII (Zork Standard Code for Information Interchange; pronounced to rhyme with "xyzzy")'
22:22:03 <Jafet> kmc: on the other hand you'd produce the first 3D renderer to have any kind of proof associated with it
22:22:05 <Sgeo_> That's an incredibly helpful pronunciation guide
22:22:18 <Bike> the american thoracic society
22:22:23 <Sgeo_> http://www.ats-lang.org/
22:22:24 <Bike> "Applied Type System"?
22:22:37 <kmc> Bike: http://www.ats-lang.org/ it's, uh, a dependently typed systems language? i can't figure out what it is really because the docs are beyond unreadable
22:23:14 <Bike> the front page says it has pointer arithmetic but they used asm too huh
22:23:17 <kmc> @quote kmc tutorial
22:23:17 <lambdabot> kmc says: i started to read the "tutorial" and it was incomprehensible. makes the Gentle Introduction to Haskell look like Teach Yourself PHP in 24 Hours
22:23:34 <Bike> i think i got a pimple just from reading that, it's so dorky
22:24:08 <kmc> looks like they've changed the site though?
22:24:14 <kmc> maybe the tutorial is new and improved
22:25:40 <Sgeo_> "In practice the text compression factor is not really very good: for instance, 155000 characters of text squashes into 99000 bytes. (Text usually accounts for about 75\% of a story file.) Encoding does at least encrypt the text so that casual browsers can't read it. Well-chosen abbreviations will reduce total story file size by 10\% or so."
22:29:15 <zzo38> Sgeo_: Yes, it isn't particularly good, but it is a simple way that works for this purpose.
22:30:03 <Sgeo_> Crazy idea, hooking up a Z-machine interpreter to PSOX
22:30:44 <zzo38> There are various other things I can think of to reduce file size and do other things, although I don't know if any compilers do many of these things.
22:30:58 <Sgeo_> Hmm, I guess Z-machine interpreters don't use stdio in a typical way
22:32:02 <zzo38> Sgeo_: It might be done by adding an extra input/output stream for PSOX, although yes it is crazy
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22:38:12 <zzo38> What does "warning: pointer type mismatch in conditional expression" mean?
22:38:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:38:55 <zzo38> Actually I figured it out
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22:54:27 <Bike> `welcome elieser224
22:54:35 <HackEgo> elieser224: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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22:56:51 <Taneb> Other kind of esoteric?
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23:00:14 <Sgeo_> I have a variety of thoughts that I wouldn't express outloud, yet I don't class as 'intrusive', and ... I haven't expressed them outloud
23:00:27 <Sgeo_> So why am I so scared that I'll end up saying this one intrusive thought outloud
23:01:07 <Sgeo_> Maybe I'm scared that somewhere deep down I agree with it, even though I hope that I don't
23:01:40 <kmc> PM it to fungot
23:01:40 <fungot> kmc: but it's a very interesting idea
23:02:16 <Sgeo_> fizzie can't read messages sent to fungot right?
23:02:17 <fungot> Sgeo_: hehe psykotic :) as long as it's legal to own property there, without being asked to do all this before?
23:03:07 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
23:03:15 <Sgeo_> If I type it to fungot, what if it opens the gates for me saying it again in the future
23:03:16 <fungot> Sgeo_: so dashboard comes up a lot of work to write. do you know of extra documentation it'd be great to test dynamic loading too if you want
23:03:21 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
23:06:35 <Sgeo_> Well, I typed it into a text editor, then backspaced over it
23:08:34 <Taneb> Well, the local factory is on fire
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23:12:47 <Sgeo_> One of the strongest intrusive thoughts I had as a kid was the number "666", which I felt I had to counter by thinking "777"... but the big reason that intrusive thought doesn't bother me anymore is because I see nothing wrong with the number 666. That seems like a bad way to resolve this particular thought
23:15:05 <fizzie> Sgeo_: I can read the last few of them.
23:15:34 <fizzie> (It echoes the raw IRC input, but doesn't log anything, so it's up to screen window scrollback.)
23:18:45 <fizzie> (Mostly as a debugging tool.)
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