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00:09:29 <ion> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AVSq6lYUnYA/UXZVJS-qMnI/AAAAAAAABQY/a7ujINuJQpI/w506-h930-o/z_15ce2d9d.jpg
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00:12:09 <madbr> is there a good way to detect memory aliasing in software?
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00:16:14 <madbr> the algo I have atm is:
00:17:28 <madbr> - in the loop, if there are any read operations that can't be reordered to after generating all the memory write addresses, they have to be locked. This is done with a Memory_read + lock operation
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00:23:28 <madbr> - All the memory writes that can potentially alias with reads should be locked first, using a lock operation
00:24:10 <madbr> - Once all write addresses are locked, all the other memory reads can be done, using a memory_read + check operation
00:25:31 <madbr> - Also any locked read addresses from the first step can be unlocked, using an unlock operation
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00:26:47 <madbr> - Once all potential jumps are passed and it's sure the code isn't running speculatively, the real writes can be done, using a write + unlock operation
00:27:59 <madbr> It "works" and also supports read-modify (using a memory_read + lock instead of just a lock operation at step 2) but it's kinda convoluted
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00:28:24 <madbr> It uses like 5 different operations where a normal memory system would only have 2 o_O
00:28:26 <Phantom__Hoover> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/mar/12/weekend.jonronson i hope you're all reading these
00:30:10 <madbr> also if a memory alias is detected it has to jump from some random location to a proper handler, invalidate all the cores that were speculatively doing wrong stuff, and also unlock the addresses that were locked but won't be unlocked now that the control flow won't go there o_O
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00:47:55 * Sgeo wonders if he could give REBOL similar scoping as Kernel
00:48:21 <Sgeo> Kernel operatives receive a lexical environment as an object, right? And eval takes one?
00:48:31 <Sgeo> Or am I misremembering
00:48:54 <kmc> (yes they do, no you're not misremembering)
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00:49:08 <kmc> shachaf and i are at world hq of http://www.em-labs.com/
00:49:12 <HackEgo> eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal
00:49:32 <Sgeo> Hmm, would be easy to make a variant of do that takes a word and forces that word's lexical environment on every word in the argument block
00:49:49 <Bike> kmc: ooh, that looks fun
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00:50:22 <kmc> yeah i know the founders from school
00:51:04 <Sgeo> Harder would be to make functions that take a block also take an environment... I mean, they could just peak at the first word in the block and assume that that's its environment
00:51:38 <kmc> hm it occurs that i don't actually know anything about REBOL
00:51:58 <Bike> Sgeo: well, that's why kernel environment parameters are all separated out.
00:51:59 <kmc> should i fix that
00:52:00 <Sgeo> Better idea: Give participating functions an /env refinement and have my doenv scan for words that have it
00:52:38 <Sgeo> Although, Rebol makes things tricky here by making it hard to determine where a functions arguments end
00:53:38 <Sgeo> Maybe a bit of currying...
00:55:58 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/mar/19/weekend.jonronson stop learning rebol Sgeo
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00:57:16 <Sgeo> Are the link and that statement related?
00:57:21 <Sgeo> Also, do you know anything about rebol?
00:58:04 <Bike> The link and the statement are related.
00:58:09 <Bike> It's a very cogent argument.
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01:26:07 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/jul/02/weekend.jonronson oh god this one
01:32:30 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005/jul/16/creditcards.debt is also good but not particularly funny
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02:11:46 <keyzs> http://youtu.be/-KXgHqp2juQ
02:12:16 <keyzs> http://worldtv.com/tvp_global/
02:12:53 <Bike> Well shit, when you put it that way.
02:13:50 <Bike> "I wish Mr. Fresco would take a neutral position on who did 9/11. It's a touchy and divisive subject and there isn't likely to be consensus any time soon."
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02:16:03 <keyzs> laws of nature are inviolable?
02:16:39 <keyzs> Bike i believe that usa made 911
02:16:50 <Bike> `welcome keyzs
02:16:52 <HackEgo> keyzs: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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02:18:08 <Bike> zzo38: Who do you think made 911?
02:21:41 <keyzs> Bike the us puts people on poverty with the federal reserve bank ruled by 5 or 6 magnats of money, so why wouldn´t them cause a disaster to have a war and make devastation and profit over it?
02:22:14 <Bike> The banks really have got a lot of money out of the war on terror, haven't they.
02:22:20 <Sgeo> Flame war in the Rebol room about q
02:22:37 <Bike> I wish you'd take a neutral position on q, Sgeo.
02:23:30 <Sgeo> Guy is angry that q causes the interpreter to quit, and is worried about people accidentally quitting and then not realizing why they quit
02:27:02 <zzo38> Bike: Who made 9/11? Well, it wasn't made by just one guy. The USA did part of it, but not all of it.
02:27:19 <keyzs> Bike wars are about resources, there were resources themes behind story of 9/11, starts on politics and oil, what do you think was laden business?
02:27:37 <Sgeo> I'm on the side of the angry guy
02:28:08 <keyzs> He was born in the bin Laden family to billionaire Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden in Saudi Arabia.
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02:28:33 <keyzs> now figure it out :)
02:29:13 <Bike> bin Laden did 9/11? That sounds like a controversial idea.
02:29:47 <zzo38> I think it was partially the fault of the government of the United States, although it is also bin Laden's fault, and possibly a few others.
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02:34:30 <Bike> What do you think of SKI calculus?
02:36:42 <Phantom__Hoover> the us government faked 9/11, but then bin laden swooped in and took the credit
02:36:58 <Phantom__Hoover> they were just going to be like "yeah those towers tragically exploded"
02:37:04 <Bike> Maybe I should make an esolang called Northwoods.
02:37:19 <keyzs> can have multiple applications
02:41:01 <keyzs> Phantom__Hoover, i believe that it was more like a tragic happening partership, because some documentaries that i seen say that structure of the building was designed to resist plains hitting it, and the metal structure had chemicals to do erosion on airplain hits
02:42:28 <keyzs> us has business oil deals with multiple countries and arabs, most of them are coneceted to religion and arm businesses, so they are no flowers, play with the devil and then get it good
02:44:51 <Phantom__Hoover> i realise now that steering to the absurd was a bad idea for this conversation
02:45:37 <keyzs> saddam hussein was absurd too
02:45:40 <Bike> Hm, back in 1994 some people tried to crash a plane into the Eiffel Tower. I didn't know that.
02:46:28 <keyzs> all in name of resources, profit, lands and oil
02:48:55 <sacje> we went to vietnam to export some of our freedom to the poor, backwards communists
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02:49:02 <sacje> you need to check your facts sir
02:49:15 <Bike> Or nonbinary existence.
02:51:08 <Bike> Sgeo: Don't scare me like that!
02:56:49 <keyzs> sacje http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
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02:57:50 <keyzs> see that pic on wikipedia with the soldiers down?
02:57:55 <sacje> wikipedia is a known to be a hotbed for communist sympathizers
02:58:51 <Sgeo> Who are these people?
02:58:51 <keyzs> you can search on any search engine
02:59:44 <sacje> search engines are working for the chinese
03:00:10 <ais523> hey, what's going on here?
03:00:19 <ais523> some sort of channel invasion?
03:00:37 <Bike> Something like that.
03:00:46 <Bike> I think? I don't know what keyzs thinks of esolangs.
03:01:08 <sacje> lol i'm just messing around
03:01:18 <ais523> keyzs: sacje: do you understand what this channel is for, or do you just turn up to random channels as part of some sort of performance art thing?
03:01:54 <sacje> i know what it's for, i like esolangs and didn't know there was an irc channel for it
03:02:15 <sacje> i was kidding because i saw other people were talking about politics and figure it could use a dose of crazy
03:02:23 <ais523> I think it's mostly keyzs fault
03:02:30 <ais523> turned up recently, and hasn't said anything ontopic yet
03:05:26 <ais523> not so much other people
03:05:30 <ais523> as some sort of possible troll
03:05:36 <ais523> in general, though, this is a hard channel to troll effectively
03:05:50 <ais523> not impossible, but it isn't accomplished very often
03:07:07 -!- keyzs has left ("Leaving").
03:07:25 <ais523> hmm… I suspect keyzs is organised enough to actually check the list of ops before starting to troll
03:07:38 <ais523> because I didn't unstealth
03:07:53 <Bike> Or maybe they just wanted to stay until somebody mentioned that they were just spewing.
03:08:36 <Bike> Either way, thank you, O op.
03:09:28 <ais523> yeah, I was considering a ban
03:09:40 <ais523> but you test the waters first to see if people are reasonable or not
03:09:50 <ais523> I remember when a troll came in here a while ago
03:09:55 <ais523> and we kicked them about 10 times
03:09:59 <ais523> didn't bother banning, it was too funny
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04:09:30 <zzo38> Is there a way in MediaWiki to make a template to override another template inside a template which it calls?
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04:57:45 <Bike> So there are those crypto challenges that like kmc and shachaf were talking about probably. And related ctfs and stuff.
04:57:52 <Bike> Are there any like, open-ended challenges?
04:58:03 <Bike> "Here's an intercepted transmission from [fictional war], figure it out" or something
05:03:26 <kmc> Bike: are you a numbers station
05:03:37 <kmc> 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105
05:04:48 <Bike> Yeah, Conet is why I'm asking.
05:04:53 <Bike> http://irdial.com/crackhome.htm
05:05:18 <kmc> i think those are mostly one-time pads
05:05:42 <Bike> Yeah but they put them up anyway.
05:05:52 <Bike> Maybe they just want to see amateur cryptanalysts lose their minds.
05:07:03 <kmc> there's that scullpture at the NSA
05:07:09 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptos
05:07:31 <kmc> skullpture
05:08:33 <Bike> I think the NSA is big on cryptanalysts losing their minds, so
05:08:50 <Bike> Dang, for a second I thought "encrypted sculpture" was going to be an article :(
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05:11:06 <Bike> These are shorter than I expected. Lincolnshire Poacher is apparently just 39715 over and over again.
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05:13:38 <Bike> Oh, it changed. 32348. 59378. makes me wonder if they switched to something steganographic and the numbers are just a ploy, though.
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06:09:29 <kmc> play numbers stations loudly outdoors at 2AM
06:11:21 <Bike> numbers stations set to led zeppelin
06:13:26 <kmc> orange! that's right!
06:13:36 <kmc> OORRAANNGGEE
06:14:00 <Bike> boards of lincolnhire
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06:51:39 <shachaf> kmc: 𝕳𝖆𝖑𝖋 𝖆 𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖊𝖗 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖙𝖒𝖚𝖝!
06:52:05 <kmc> that's a lot of � :/
06:52:10 <kmc> I guess you are showing off your new tmux?
06:52:29 <shachaf> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/s
06:53:56 <kmc> looks v. nice in my browser
07:21:17 <kmc> i wonder if birds ever eat something so heavy that they can't fly anymore
07:23:37 <kmc> shachaf and i saw a bird that was maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Scrub_Jay
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12:55:01 <elliott> ais523: can i get you to ban ~elieser22@190.121.238.14
12:55:08 <elliott> they keep joining and then parting seconds later and never saying anything!!
12:55:23 <ais523> elliott: recently, or a long time ago?
12:56:16 <ais523> I can see it three times in my scrollback, once they stayed here for several minutes
12:56:21 <ais523> so I'd say there isn't enough evidence yet
12:57:11 <ais523> like, it could be someone with a broken client, but I think it's more likely someone checking the channel manually to see if there's an active conversation
12:57:16 <ais523> and that's not a ban-worthy offence
12:58:11 <elliott> ais523: grep elieser224 *.log --> http://sprunge.us/VJBb
12:58:40 <HackEgo> eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal
12:58:44 <elliott> if they've been checking the channel then they've been ignoring that ^ several times
12:58:54 <elliott> admittedly it misses a letter of their nick
12:59:00 <elliott> but if they're checking manually, that shouldn't be relevant
12:59:26 <elliott> you can set up a ban that redirects them to ##fixyourconnection, that's what is done in #haskell for client/connection problems like that
12:59:50 <ais523> well, the pattern seems to have changed in the last several hours
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13:00:17 <ais523> so I think we'll see if it starts up again before a fix-your-connection ban (which is the only sort of ban I was considering)
13:00:58 <ais523> I can't redirect there, it doesn't have an allow-arbitrary-redirects mode set
13:01:10 <ais523> or maybe it does, is that mode +F?
13:01:37 <elliott> well you could consider bit a ban for flooding
13:02:00 <elliott> like, if someone joined just to say "a" every hour for a six-hour period every day, they should be banned
13:02:55 <ais523> but the temporary join and then part a bit later is harder to explain
13:03:13 <elliott> it's arguably twice as noisy as "a" :)
13:03:24 <elliott> probably equally in practice, since joins/parts are "quieter" than messages
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13:20:49 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe they have #esoteric on autojoin for some reason and are manually parting it every time they join?
13:21:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: sounds like they'd be pleased to have their client be made unable to join #esoteric then
13:22:16 <elliott> `run echo 'echo elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?' >bin/e
13:22:24 <HackEgo> elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?
13:22:31 <elliott> ps does anyone speak spanish
13:22:43 <elliott> "often why high and low?" uh
13:30:20 <ais523> is spanish just a guess, or is it related to the IP somehow?
13:32:44 <elliott> ais523: as seen in my log link, the only thing they've ever said in #esoteric is "hola"
13:32:54 <elliott> also I googled their nick and they've been in some other channel on freenode in spanish
13:33:15 <elliott> i suspect google translate has not adequately conveyed my message
13:35:51 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, that was one of my alter egos
13:35:58 <Taneb> (it wasn't one of my alter egos actually)
13:39:36 <Taneb> I thought it was the other way round
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13:58:21 <oerjan> <HackEgo> eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal <-- your speling is pathetic hth
14:03:52 * oerjan suddenly wonders if there are many things in programming named after spices, like currying
14:04:32 <Lumpio-> Actually currying comes from a guy's name
14:04:35 <Lumpio-> ...but the name probably comes from food
14:04:58 <oerjan> OH I'D NEVER HAVE GUESSED
14:05:10 <Taneb> The name has nothing to do with the food, actually
14:05:16 <Bike> the joke is starvation
14:05:20 <oerjan> hm i'm not sure curry's name ... what Taneb said
14:05:28 <oerjan> isn't it irish or something
14:06:00 <oerjan> on the flipside, haskell is hebrew. or maybe that's also irish by some remarkable coincidence.
14:06:25 <oerjan> brooks sounds disturbingly english. maybe it's really persian or something.
14:07:02 <Taneb> I'm trying to learn HTML Canvas.
14:07:17 <Taneb> I keep running an example and thinking, "ooh, isn't this pretty? wow"
14:07:22 <Taneb> And then getting distracted
14:07:57 <oerjan> "Brooks is a functional logic programming language which inherits from the languages Curry and BABEL but allows the integration of different narrowing strategies."
14:08:45 <oerjan> just need to unpack it
14:10:05 <oerjan> maybe i'll be able to compile lens without thrashing on the first attempt, now
14:10:55 <oerjan> probably not enough to compile ghc though; i don't want to ruin my dad either
14:15:40 <oerjan> the old man is rather kind, really
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16:19:40 <kmc> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22751415 finland
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16:44:10 <drlemon> Also hello kmc but nostly headshot because he sent me here
16:46:02 <DHeadshot> Drlemon, well, you did say you Loved esolangs...
16:46:45 <HackEgo> DrLeMoN: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
16:46:49 <drlemon> I've actually been here before. Just didn't have much to say considering I'm a total amateur at programming
16:47:22 <drlemon> I've been welcomed already last time.
16:47:35 <kmc> oerjan: what new laptop did you get
16:47:36 <oerjan> it's ok it was probably a different welcome
16:48:10 <drlemon> No, like 10 people welcomed me in different ways
16:48:34 <HackEgo> drlemon: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
16:48:51 <zzo38> For some reason, the save game isn't working OK.
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16:53:27 <nooga> I wonder what are minimal CPU features that allow linux to run
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16:54:35 <nooga> assume that you have to design a simple CPU, then make a GCC backend targetting this machine, and then compile and boot linux kernel
16:55:02 <kmc> then i would design a CPU that already fits the MIPS ISA :)
16:55:21 <zzo38> nooga: I don't know.
16:55:40 <kmc> anyway I don't think there are many must-have features; Linux does run on systems without MMU these days
16:55:51 <kmc> "although functionality is then obviously somewhat limited"
16:55:56 <nooga> kmc: too simple, existing ISAs are banned from this excercise
16:56:08 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose using the same instruction set that Linux uses in something it is ported to, or the subset compatible with Linux, would be an easy way to do it without modifying Linux or GCC, although that isn't necessarily a minimal CPU features!
16:56:13 <kmc> then i would make some ISA which differs from MIPS in a boring way
16:56:25 <kmc> say by shuffling the bits of the instruction encoding
16:56:27 <kmc> i'll call it ips-may
16:56:31 <nooga> i would go with something ARMish
16:56:41 <zzo38> kmc: Or omitting the features that GCC/Linux doesn't use?
16:56:47 <kmc> zzo38: sure
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16:57:07 <kmc> ARM is a cool arch, but MIPS might be a bit simpler to implement
16:57:17 <kmc> depending also on which versions
16:57:32 <nooga> SPARCs are awesome
16:58:59 <nooga> but this is not minimal
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16:59:29 <kmc> i have implemented at gate level 6.004's "Beta" processor, which I guess is supposed to be like the Alpha but 32-bit
16:59:38 <kmc> it's a very simple RISC
16:59:51 <nooga> i was just wondering if there are some specific features that are strictly required to run GCC output, with linux as a representative example
16:59:53 <kmc> with very limited interrupt handling, and no MMU
17:02:13 <zzo38> I realized in this C program, I have both "VERSION" and "version" as two different things. (Since C is case-sensitive, this is OK.)
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17:06:53 <nooga> maybe I should ask on #kernel
17:07:05 <nooga> but I fear that they will eat me
17:07:54 <DHeadshot> Zzo38, It's when you have "Version", "vERSION" and "VeRsIoN" as well that you need to worry...
17:08:07 <zzo38> DHeadshot: Yes, that may be true.
17:08:36 <zzo38> As it turns out both version and VERSION are macros in my program; version is (*memory) and VERSION is "0.5".
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17:09:55 <FreeFull> zzo38: Why is version (*memory)
17:10:05 <zzo38> FreeFull: It is a Z-machine interpreter.
17:10:41 <zzo38> memory is an array of unsigned 8-bits.
17:11:54 <DHeadshot> As a DOS user, I prefer saw insensitive languages. However, I appear to be a dying breed...
17:12:45 <zzo38> Well, I use DOS as well as other things too.
17:13:17 <zzo38> I do program in BASIC as well as in C.
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17:14:59 <zzo38> DHeadshot: What programming languages do you use?
17:16:30 <DHeadshot> Assembly, pascal, basic, FORTRAN, etc; plus obviously esolangs like whirl and 3code (I know that last one's case sensitive)...
17:18:35 <zzo38> Assembly language of what computers? I have used x86 assembly and 6502 assembly.
17:19:06 <FreeFull> I have done x86 and ARM myself
17:19:36 <FreeFull> I don't think it would be difficult for me to pick up another one
17:19:53 <zzo38> O, and also Z-machine assembly.
17:20:11 <DHeadshot> I did a little RISC-style at uni but not for any particular CPU. I'd like to learn ARM though...
17:26:28 <nooga> ARM is for compilers ;p
17:26:52 <FreeFull> ARM isn't that bad to write manually
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17:28:55 <DHeadshot> ARM was DESIGNED to write manually - how would you compile for your expansion module with just 32kb of free memory?
17:29:07 <zzo38> O no! Two of my "C" position players are injured, and the remaining one is very susceptible to injury. Now, if they get injured too, I will be disqualified.
17:30:13 <DHeadshot> Zzo38, I thought you said you were writing IN C, not PLAYING it...?
17:30:59 <zzo38> DHeadshot: Yes, but now I am playing a different game.
17:34:11 <FreeFull> DHeadshot: x86 was designed to write manually at the start and look what happened
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17:35:42 <DHeadshot> I mean, not the machine-code, but the asm is...
17:36:30 <DHeadshot> The machine-code's a mess, but then so are most modern CISCs...
17:38:08 <zzo38> Yes, the modern x86 is pretty terrible, and so is the modern ARM, actually.
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17:39:15 <tromp> what's the cleanest 64bit risc design?
17:39:57 <DHeadshot> I'd assume MIPS, but I haven't seen Alpha...
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18:02:14 <olsner> some things still use MIPS, so it might not be as clean as it used to be ... I think Alpha is essentially dead so it should be cleaner
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18:19:46 <oerjan> weather: splitty with chance of trolling
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19:20:02 <kmc> x86 is a mess, but if you are writing assembly yourself, for a typical x86 operating system, you can ignore most of the complexity
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19:20:27 <kmc> if you are writing an OS or reading compiler output, it's a whole different story
19:20:43 <kmc> lol swapgs instruction
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19:22:09 <Bike> obviously they should make an x86 Lite
19:22:17 <kmc> amd64 is that, a little
19:23:36 <kmc> they took out some little-used features and added new, more useful ones
19:23:56 <kmc> of course by 'took out' I only mean in long mode; they still have a full implementation of the 16- and 32-bit x86 instruction sets as well
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19:25:25 <kmc> also some of the removed features would still be useful in specific circumstances :/
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19:28:08 <Bike> isn't that true of any removed feature
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19:31:43 <kmc> to varying extent, yeah
19:32:38 <kmc> what I have in mind specifically is that the vestigial support for segmentation in 64-bit mode is not really good enough to implement the kernel security features that some 32-bit OSes have
19:32:58 <kmc> (but not the common 32-bit OSes)
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20:00:01 <Bike> is there a function such that f' = f . f?
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20:01:27 <oerjan> um, i'm just asking if ' and . mean what i am guessing
20:01:45 <Bike> Taneb: yeah i thought of that, but another?
20:02:07 <kmc> \rainbow{differential equations}
20:02:13 <oerjan> hm polynomials can't work
20:02:35 <Bike> kmc: it's not a differential equation, it's a function equation B)
20:02:42 <kmc> because if f has degree n, f.f has degree 2n and f' has degree n-1?
20:03:01 <kmc> Bike: well f'(x) = f(f(x)) is a differential equation
20:03:04 <Taneb> Something Hyperbolic?
20:03:26 <Bike> kmc: I actually got this equation out of a book as an example of something that isn't a differential equation despite involving a function and its derivatives.
20:03:34 <Bike> Because it's not about a vector field.
20:03:51 <Bike> But it's interesting to think about.
20:04:12 <oerjan> sounds like an arbitrary restriction of the term
20:04:47 <Bike> it's not arbitrary.
20:05:08 <myname> Bike: if you get one, tell me :)
20:05:32 <Bike> taneb already named one.
20:05:41 <myname> well, a non trivial one
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20:09:42 <oerjan> hm how does the multivariable chain rule work with f(f(x))
20:10:15 <oerjan> it's just f'(f(x))*f'(x) i think
20:10:38 <oerjan> and it's not actually multi
20:12:21 <Taneb> Who was the chap who said that either there's extraterrestial life or there isn't and both possibilities are equally scary?
20:12:33 <oerjan> hm schwartzian transform has nothing to do with either schwartz functions or fourier transforms
20:14:09 <Bike> mathematicians: suck at naming things
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20:15:16 <oerjan> hm wait composition doesn't behave nicely with fourier or laplace transforms i think
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20:18:57 <oerjan> f(f(x)) tends to be "more complicated" than f'(x) in some sense, i think
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20:20:04 <oerjan> which i mean not as a strict rule but as an intuition you have to escape the validity of
20:21:37 <Bike> i dunno. what if f is, say, a half-iterate? D^1/2 is way more complicated than D in my mind
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20:37:39 <oerjan> hm f's behavior near x and near f(x) do not need to be related if f isn't particularly nice. which means it should be easy to find a solution which holds only in an interval.
20:39:11 <oerjan> f(x) = 2x near 1, say, and f(x) = 2 near 2.
20:40:24 <oerjan> it then satisfies the equation near 1.
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20:44:10 <oerjan> f''(x) = (f(f(x)))' = f'(f(x))*f'(x) = f(f(f(x)))*f(f(x))
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20:45:05 <oerjan> f''(x)/f'(x) = f(f(f(x)))
20:45:20 <oerjan> (ln f(x))' = f(f(f(x)))
20:45:37 <oerjan> * (ln f'(x))' = f(f(f(x)))
20:46:26 <Bike> how entirely comprehensible
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22:25:35 <kmc> "William III of England arrived at Brixham in England on 5 November 1688 after setting sail from the Netherlands on 11 November 1688"
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22:26:45 <Taneb> kmc, that was around when all the calendars were switching from Julian to Gregorian, iirc
22:26:48 <Bike> kings are amazing
22:26:53 <Taneb> England's was one of the last to switch
22:27:31 <Taneb> kmc, were you the chap who left #haskell and vowed never to return?
22:27:44 <kmc> i don't think i vowed never to return........................................
22:28:00 <kmc> i have various complaints and probably will not return unless some of them improve
22:28:03 <Taneb> Anyway, I am now beginning to think that that may have been a very good idea
22:28:06 <kmc> but some already have
22:28:09 <olsner> stuff like that would be funnier if we had no idea people were switching calendars
22:28:19 <kmc> yeah I know that you all know about calendars and such
22:28:22 <kmc> it's just amusing
22:28:56 <Taneb> There is someone who is insisting that we should endeavour to make Applicative instances as different as possible to Monad instances
22:29:03 <Taneb> So ap /= (<*>) et al.
22:29:26 <kmc> a lot of eastern europe, russia, asia didn't change until the 20th century
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22:30:01 <kmc> hence the october revolution starting on November 7 (N.S.)
22:30:16 <kmc> anyway goodnight taneb
22:30:16 <Taneb> I already said that
22:30:21 <Taneb> This time I meant it
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22:30:31 <kmc> (any justification for making applicative very different from monad?)
22:31:04 <shachaf> I think people being wrong on things isn't the biggest problem with #haskell.
22:31:40 <kmc> what do you think are the biggest problems?
22:35:41 <Bike> why as different as possible
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22:43:34 <oerjan> `run e | sed '/lis/lies/'
22:43:35 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 7: extra characters after command
22:43:43 <oerjan> `run e | sed 's/lis/lies/'
22:43:44 <HackEgo> elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?
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22:45:56 <HackEgo> elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?
22:46:02 <Bike> what are you replacing....
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22:52:04 <elliott> did i make another typo in the naem lol
22:52:06 <HackEgo> elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?
22:53:09 <elliott> oerjan: btw if you know spanish please make the message be right
22:53:55 <oerjan> material implication is so easy
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23:03:47 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!eliser*@*.
23:03:54 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
23:04:34 <elliott> oerjan: you may wish to reconsider that ban.
23:04:43 <elliott> in particular I'd recommend the addition of an e and a 22.
23:04:54 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
23:04:58 <shachaf> The 22 is not quite as necessary.
23:04:59 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!eliser*@*.
23:05:06 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!elisere22*@*.
23:05:11 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
23:05:19 <Koen_> I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'good' ban
23:05:24 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:05:27 <elliott> oerjan: you may wish to look at elieser2241's hostname again :P
23:05:35 <Koen_> apparently jsvine agrees with me
23:06:28 -!- jsvine has joined.
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23:08:28 <elliott> oerjan: (the e is after the eli, not the r. or is this intentional.)
23:09:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
23:09:14 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!elisere22*@*.
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23:10:04 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
23:10:17 <oerjan> the slippery slope has landed
23:17:57 <oerjan> `pastelogs oerjan> @check.*
23:18:37 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19489
23:30:48 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_).
23:31:20 <Sgeo> Rebol reminds me of what I once expressed as a wish for how Lisp worked
23:32:57 <Sgeo> (if (< 0 1) '(print "Hello") '(print "Goodbye"))
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23:58:31 <Bike> we can't always get what we want
23:59:21 <oerjan> THAT'S JUST THE MAN KEEPING YOU DOWN