00:00:55 <kmc> https://github.com/wopot/jsgifkeylogger/blob/master/gifjs.asm cute but I don't totally see the security relevance
00:01:07 <kmc> i do like the use of assembler to build binary files that aren't machine code at all
00:01:49 <Bike> aw, it's not instructions
00:02:30 <Bike> i like the misspelling
00:02:57 <Bike> heigth; also, good
00:03:44 <Bike> i, too, was mistake once
00:04:35 <kmc> like it could be used to exploit sites with a very specific combination of file uploading, restricted user-specified HTML, and path and URL whitelisting
00:04:45 <kmc> a combination that doesn't seem very likely to come up in practice
00:04:49 <kmc> but maybe I'm missing something
00:04:53 <Bike> anything's possible online, right
00:07:25 <Fiora> kmc: that reminds me of the thing a while back where I tried one of those "smallest possible executable" things
00:07:33 <Fiora> someone had posted their own attempt so I spent a few hours poking at it and trying things
00:07:40 <Fiora> it was fun laying out the ELF header manually
00:07:42 <Bike> "turns out you can get linux to execute a negative amount of bytes"
00:08:02 <elliott> i wonder if you can exploit a filesystem bug like that
00:08:07 <elliott> like if they used signed types accidentally
00:08:13 <elliott> so you can convince it you have a -1 byte file
00:08:13 <Fiora> I wonder if it's remotely convenient to write a bitstream using an assembler, though
00:08:22 <elliott> and it'll read backwards because of the way they wrote their loop or something
00:08:23 <Fiora> like writing bytes is just "db whatever" and so on
00:08:27 <Fiora> but like, a bitstream would be trickier
00:08:27 <elliott> so you can store the file contents in the metadata
00:08:37 <elliott> imo someone should make this happen
00:08:41 <Fiora> oh gosh I'm thinking of writing a variable-length coder in yasm macros someone -stop me-
00:08:51 * Bike stares impassively
00:09:00 <kmc> i will not stand in the way of this
00:09:34 <pikhq> Fiora: Can I ask why?
00:09:36 <elliott> Fiora: at least you're in the right channel
00:09:41 <pikhq> Mind, this is probably awesome.
00:10:18 <Fiora> um. because like, the gif thing above
00:10:23 <Fiora> the idea of laying out a file in an assembler, right?
00:10:37 <Fiora> but like, assemblers only let you write bytes, not bits, usually
00:10:44 <Fiora> at least I think? I might be wrong
00:10:59 <pikhq> That is an amusing way of distributing a binary.
00:11:59 <pikhq> nasm lets you use binary literals.
00:17:19 <pikhq> Amusing thought: you could actually have a GPL-compliant program distributed only as a binary.
00:17:27 <pikhq> If you actually wrote it that way.
00:17:30 <olsner> Fiora: in nasm, %assign (etc) should be enough to let you write bitwise macros that output bytes as you go along
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00:21:24 <olsner> Fiora: in any case, do it
00:24:04 <Fiora> http://privatepaste.com/094d840fe8 okay I have no idea if this is right but it runs and the first 4 hex digits seem to be right I think
00:25:19 <Fiora> oh geez. now I'm imagining someone, like, writing a JPEG compressor in nasm macros
00:25:58 <Fiora> (probably faaar beyond me though <.<)
00:30:19 <Fiora> I think it only handles codes up to 32 bits long
00:30:31 <Fiora> actually I have no idea how nasm represents variables
00:30:40 <Fiora> like gosh what happens when you try to calculate something bigger than int_max
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00:31:17 <Bike> turns out it just uses GMP
00:32:39 <Fiora> oh gosh it is actual bignums
00:32:52 <Fiora> or, like, (200000000000000000000000000000<<1) does resolve to 400000000000000000000000000000
00:33:05 <Bike> i don't know what to believe any more
00:33:19 <Fiora> 1238273829327893192*973289472384729384729348923 resolves to 1205198882014363608197849789575338441444232216
00:33:28 <Fiora> I am kind of um. wow
00:33:57 <shachaf> > 1238273829327893192*973289472384729384729348923 == 1205198882014363608197849789575338441444232216
00:34:03 <shachaf> Why wouldn't it use bignums?
00:34:28 <Fiora> in nasm it overflows and complains that my big constsant thing won't fit in 64 bits
00:34:30 <Phantom_Hoover> isn't that the reason nasm isn't cross-platform or sth
00:34:31 <Fiora> in yasm it works okay
00:34:47 <Fiora> that is super weird
00:36:42 <Bike> what's going on with those integers there i don't understand
00:37:03 <Fiora> in yasm it just kind of does what you'd expect and works in nasm it overflows ?
00:37:32 <Bike> oh, i missed the multiplication.
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00:42:21 * Fiora peeeeers at the code, grepgregperpegrep
00:42:25 <Fiora> struct yasm_intnum {
00:42:25 <Fiora> long l; /* integer value (for integers <32 bits) */
00:42:25 <Fiora> wordptr bv; /* bit vector (for integers >=32 bits) */
00:42:27 <Fiora> enum { INTNUM_L, INTNUM_BV } type;
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00:42:42 <elliott> yasm, scales to 1024-bit cpus
00:42:52 <Bike> what's a wordptr
00:43:22 <Bike> oh. wouldn't that be a vector of words
00:43:36 <Fiora> http://guest.engelschall.com/~sb/download/ and it uses this thing for bignum math?
00:43:41 <Fiora> or um, the thing labelled bit-vector
00:43:42 <shachaf> typedefs of pointers are the devil hth :'(
00:43:49 <pikhq> Well, actually, it might be a vector of "words" in the x86 sense.
00:43:55 <pikhq> Making that a uint16_t*
00:44:11 <Bike> The use of a camel in combination with Perl and Perl-related topics
00:44:12 <Bike> is a trademark of O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.
00:44:13 <pikhq> It's funny that the system word on my system is a "quad word".
00:44:53 <shachaf> That's Intelese and/or Microsoftese for you.
00:44:55 <Bike> Wait, so how's it know how many words it's using.
00:45:21 <Bike> how many bytey things.
00:45:26 <Bike> i'm not good with computers sorry
00:45:33 <pikhq> Maybe the first word is a count?
00:45:46 <pikhq> shachaf: Intelese really.
00:45:54 <Fiora> it's a pointer to a Bit-Vector object, I think
00:45:56 <elliott> Bike: could be 0 terminated
00:45:57 <Fiora> bit-vector is a library
00:45:59 <pikhq> And really makes sense from a legacy point of view.
00:46:04 <Fiora> or more like a single c file apparently @_@
00:46:15 <elliott> that's c libraries for you
00:46:21 <pikhq> x86 asm is for a system with a 16-bit word.
00:46:28 <Fiora> I'm guessing the author didn't want any dependencies for yasm? still wow
00:46:34 <Bike> well it's not like naïve bignums are hard right
00:46:43 <Bike> so how often do bignums come up in macroassembly
00:46:51 <pikhq> Bike: Merely tedious if you don't care much about performance.
00:46:52 <Fiora> I... I have no idea @_@
00:46:59 <Fiora> I don't think I ever touched them before this
00:47:07 <Fiora> but I'm probably not like a good sample or anything
00:47:09 <Bike> pikhq: the algorithms i learned in elementary school are good enough for my PC, dammit!
00:47:24 <Bike> Fiora: maybe they come up in intermediate results and you don't notice.
00:47:31 <Bike> this might bother me now
00:47:55 <Fiora> but then it'd break on nasm
00:48:24 <Bike> yeah, i guess it would.
00:48:37 <Bike> elliott: btw wouldn't 0 terminated be pretty bad for bignums since most of the algorithms go right to left
00:48:54 <elliott> 0 initiated.......................
00:48:55 <Bike> maybe you could store them backwards.
00:49:23 <pikhq> 0 terminated would be awful.
00:49:31 <pikhq> And probably unworkable.
00:49:59 <pikhq> Seeing as 32 0b0s in a row is quite reasonable for sufficiently large numbers.
00:50:11 <Bike> wow i didn't even think of that wtf
00:50:30 <pikhq> And no, switching to BCD won't help there.
00:50:38 <Bike> "exactly what i was thinking"
00:50:43 <pikhq> Well. Actually, 8 bits per digit BCD works just fine. :P
00:50:58 <elliott> pikhq: the idea is you increment by one
00:50:59 <shachaf> wordptr is unsigned int * btw
00:51:02 <Bike> let's just write numbers in unary
00:51:06 <elliott> or just reserve one bit as a tag bit or w/e
00:51:13 <pikhq> Heck, at that point you might as well use ASCII. :P
00:51:26 <pikhq> ASCII: best bignum format?
00:51:59 <Bike> finally, a use for COMBINING CYRILLIC MILLIONS
00:52:17 <Fiora> reminds me of how intel added an example code bit in their new optimization manual for converting 64-bit integers into base 10 (for like, printf)
00:53:25 <Bike> more sophisticated than mod by 10, i assume
00:53:55 <Fiora> using avx2 and stuff
00:54:12 <Bike> convert between bases in O(1) time!!
00:54:22 <Fiora> "The AVX2 version of numeric conversion across the dynamic range of 3/9/17 output digits are approximately 23/57/54 cycles per input, compared to standard library implement ion’s range of 85/260/560 cycles per input."
00:55:07 <Fiora> they're doing "vectorized montgomery reduction"
00:56:05 <Fiora> so I guess, like, they're calculating (x%10),(x%100),(x%1000) and so on in simd?
00:56:12 <Fiora> I don't know what montgomery reduction is
00:57:04 <Phantom_Hoover> "In arithmetic computation, Montgomery reduction is an algorithm introduced in 1985 by Peter Montgomery that allows modular arithmetic to be performed efficiently when the modulus is large (typically several hundred bits).
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01:42:36 <kmc> today i saw a tree near my house that was like a whole ecosystem
01:43:15 <kmc> tree, two different plants growing on the tree, moss, lichen, algae, tiny Mycena mushrooms, ants, red spider, snail, black spider weaving a web attached to the snail
01:43:45 <kmc> i wasn't 'on' the tree elliott
01:44:28 <elliott> i thought you were all about being "on" the trees
01:44:39 <kmc> i think the snail wasn't dead, just too slow for the spider to notice
01:44:40 <Bike> damn i was hoping dendrophilia
01:44:43 <kmc> elliott: ah ok
01:44:51 <Bike> snail defense mechanism
01:45:13 <Bike> maybe the spider and snail have developed a mutualistic partnership, where the snail makes the web move approprirately
01:45:19 <Fiora> snails are adorable
01:45:25 <kmc> http://cuteoverload.com/2009/02/18/junior-snailio/
01:45:34 <Fiora> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
01:45:49 <elliott> hey kmc why does terminal.app often think links include some of the timestamp on the next line
01:45:54 <Fiora> oh my gosh that is so adorable
01:45:55 <elliott> and more generally lines contain multiple lines
01:45:59 <elliott> and then when i copy paste them the \ns are gone
01:46:13 <kmc> don't know
01:46:15 <zzo38> I put the sequent calculus of Turing machine: http://zzo38computer.org/tex/turing_sequent.tex Please tell me if there is a mistake.
01:46:18 <Fiora> it's amusing when like, it rains here and all the snails come out, and you walk outside and find them all having sex or something
01:46:26 <Bike> wow that size difference
01:46:29 <Fiora> ('cause they're snails)
01:46:41 <Bike> horny sluts the lot
01:46:42 <kmc> yeah it rained today and there were lots of snails out
01:46:44 <kmc> also mushrooms
01:47:00 <Fiora> there was this really big snail crawling up the wall the other day like, actually really fast (for a snail)
01:47:05 <SgeoBot> I wonder if it would be a bad idea to link work stuff here once it's public
01:47:09 <Fiora> and I was imagining it making cute little grunting noises each time it pushed up
01:47:11 <kmc> we saw some of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidulariaceae
01:47:20 <kmc> only they were smaller and yellower
01:47:21 <kmc> Fiora: haha
01:47:44 <Fiora> it's cool how they climb, like, just as fast as they crawl horizontally
01:48:04 <Fiora> there's also this one snail that lives on the wall outside my door. she wakes up every time the sun hits and moves a little bit to the side to stay in the shade
01:49:10 <Fiora> (another great thing about snails: you can use any pronoun you want to refer to them and you'll never be wrong)
01:51:22 <Fiora> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Snail_sanctuary%5E_-_geograph.org.uk_-_215817.jpg oh gosh
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01:52:59 <kmc> SgeoBot: i promise to not try very hard to hack your company's websites
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01:53:56 <zzo38> I said yesterday that I would put the sequent calculus representation of Turing machine into the computer on the weekend; well, I did it early. Can you please review it, to tell me if you found a mistake, or another comment/question/complaints?
02:01:59 <Fiora> wow. snails mate after firing a "love dart" into the other.
02:02:00 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_darts
02:03:20 <Fiora> wow, snail courtship lasts up to 6 hours @_@
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02:11:19 <Bike> every few weeks my computer forgets that wlan0 exists
02:11:24 <Bike> and i have to do a hard reset to fix it
02:11:26 <Fiora> animal mating is way more interesting than human mating okay :<
02:11:29 <Bike> i hate computers. they make me miss snail porn
02:12:02 <zzo38> Bike: Maybe you should try to fix it some other way, if it does that there is probably something wrong with it?
02:12:04 <pikhq> Fiora: I dunno, there's a lot of depth to human mating.
02:12:35 <oerjan> hm what is the deepest human mating incident
02:12:37 <Bike> zzo38: yes, there's something wrong with it and i don't know how to fix it because the solution isn't as simple as ./configure && make && make install which is the limit of my capabilities
02:12:44 <pikhq> oerjan: Define "deep".
02:12:48 <Bike> oerjan: some engineers in the kola borehole
02:12:54 <Bike> the joke is depth,
02:13:03 <pikhq> Deep Throat is pretty deep.
02:13:25 <Bike> that reminds me of a great quote about bird semen
02:14:05 <oerjan> `addquote <Bike> that reminds me of a great quote about bird semen
02:14:09 <HackEgo> 1051) <Bike> that reminds me of a great quote about bird semen
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02:15:26 <Fiora> pikhq: is... that a pun
02:16:05 <SgeoBot> pikhq, I am listening to the slow version of Magia using SennHeiser headphones
02:16:50 <pikhq> Fiora: I've got about half a degree in puns.
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02:18:52 <pikhq> Which is roughly the temperature parts of my home town are at right now.
02:18:58 * Bike looks for quote, finds detailed drawing of bird soliciting for sex
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02:22:41 <Bike> i don't think i have what it takes to be a zoology fieldworker.
02:23:15 <Bike> disturbingly enough, yes.
02:25:21 <Bike> oh, hey, i found what i was thinking of. "My career in sperm competition has been a rollercoaster ride, energised by a number of particularly special moments."
02:25:48 <Bike> the essay this is from is titled "Undiminished passion"
02:28:34 <Sgeo> I think I know which phone I want
02:28:38 <Sgeo> Not certain though
02:30:05 <lambdabot> `<' (imported from Data.Ord), `<=' (imported from Data.Ord),
02:31:08 <Fiora> pikhq: so like, an associate's?
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03:03:58 <zzo38> What do you expect (<~) to be?
03:07:00 <Bike> back to pdfs: should i keep the crazy-ass ultrafinitist zeilberger pdf
03:07:22 <oerjan> zzo38: something from lens.
03:08:09 <oerjan> but then i heard lambdabot doesn't have lens at the moment for a stupid safehaskell reason.
03:08:25 <kmc> ultrafinitists are the best
03:09:26 <Bike> REAL (i.e. discrete) analysis is conceptually simpler than traditional 'real' (continuous) analysis, and of course is much truer. But it is, on the whole, technically more difficult. Hence 'Naked Brain' humans had no choice but to pursue the latter kind.
03:10:00 <kmc> what's discrete analysis in this context
03:10:49 <Bike> Analysis for crazy people.
03:11:32 <Bike> Df(x) := (f(x+h) - f(x))/h "where h is the Fundamental mesh size, a Mathematical Universal constant, that unlike Planck's constant, we will never know, but it is very tiny."
03:12:00 <elliott> c'mon zeilberger isn't really crazy
03:12:02 <kmc> ok i see what you mean.
03:12:21 <Bike> elliott are you reading this
03:12:33 <Bike> this is time cube level discourse here
03:12:37 <kmc> it's like a PLANK LENGTH but for the PLATONIC REALM
03:12:40 <Bike> i mean obviously he's not a crank
03:12:45 <Bike> but this is fucking nuts
03:13:07 <elliott> ultrafinitism is not really that nuts
03:13:13 <elliott> i mean it's not like mathematicians don't go off on platonic type philosophising all the time
03:13:21 <Bike> yeah but do they do it in allcaps
03:13:23 <mnoqy> ultrafinitism is 100% nuts though
03:13:24 <elliott> where the information content amounts here to "we work with h as a free variable"
03:14:29 <mnoqy> "fundamental mesh size" eughs me out
03:15:06 <Bike> The main stumbling block in the further development of the theory of Discrete Analytic Functions is the fact that the property of being discrete-analytic is not preserved under multiplication. But using the discrete Leibniz rule one can express the derivative of a product, and then the product is "almost analytic". So I am sure that the full arsenal of continuous complex analysis can be discretized, but the details might be too complicated fo
03:15:44 <elliott> btw finite calculus is extremely cool
03:16:16 <zzo38> What is a "fundamental mesh size"?
03:16:22 <Bike> are the details too complicated for humans
03:16:47 <zzo38> That "Df(x) := (f(x+h) - f(x))/h" doesn't seem to make much sense to me
03:16:48 <Bike> zzo38: the difference between two points on the real line.
03:17:27 <zzo38> Bike: O, OK, well, it isn't an actual number that can be measured, I think.
03:17:44 <mnoqy> its like a derivative but with a philisophical twist
03:18:11 <elliott> hm i wonder if i'm sleeping
03:18:17 <mnoqy> yes this is a dream
03:18:27 <mnoqy> dont listen to bike he is the Deciever
03:18:37 <elliott> i meant i wonder if i'm sleeping tonight but ty
03:19:35 <mnoqy> how about nick Deceiver
03:19:52 <Bike> Neo-Pythagoreanism or: Anaxagoras deserved to be drowned
03:20:36 <zzo38> If that is how the "fundamental mesh size" is defined, then it can't be a real number.
03:21:17 <elliott> Bike: i'm reading the book are you proud of me
03:21:23 <elliott> mnoqy won't read it with me because he's ""busy""" :-|
03:21:42 <Bike> It is utter nonsense to say that √2 is irrational, because this presupposes that it exists, as a number or distance. The truth is that there is no such number or distance. What does exist is the symbol, which is just shorthand for an ideal object x that satisfies x² = 2.
03:21:47 <Bike> hellooooo platonism
03:22:41 <zzo38> Well, I suppose whether or not it exists as a distance in physical space is really a different question, although it does mathematically exist, regardless.
03:23:12 <Bike> Blessed are the Δifference Equations for They Shall Inherit Math
03:24:49 <zzo38> Whether or not there is such a number, depends on what number system it is in; since it is irrational, that means the rational numbers has no square root of 2, but the real numbers does have.
03:24:51 <Bike> Andrew Wiles' alleged 'proof' of FLT, while a crowning human achievement, is not rigorous, since it uses continuous analysis, which is meaningless.
03:25:13 <kmc> using the word 'alleged' *and* putting "proof" in scarequotes
03:25:24 <zzo38> Why are you writing such nonsensical things?
03:25:40 <Bike> Because I think mocking elliott is funny. I'll stop.
03:25:54 <kmc> are you making fun of elliott because of ultrafinitism?
03:26:16 <Bike> Well, mostly because this guy specifically is nutso.
03:26:28 <Bike> The only other ultrafinitist I know of is the one from the anecdote, so he's cool.
03:27:51 <kmc> that's a great anecdote
03:27:58 <kmc> if it's the one anecdote about ultrafinitism that i know of
03:28:11 <mnoqy> i like that anecdote too
03:28:20 <mnoqy> [assuming it's the one i know of]
03:29:14 <Bike> how many anecdotes about ultrafinitists can there possibly be, i wonder
03:29:19 <zzo38> My philosophy is that mathematics is the real reality, not the physical universe and so on.
03:29:21 <kmc> finitely many
03:29:29 <elliott> i think lecturing the guy for ranting and mocking people he disagrees with is a bit silly
03:29:33 <Bike> zzo38: platonist!! hides in shelter
03:29:36 <elliott> since have you noticed how much everyone ever does that
03:29:48 <Bike> they don't do it quite so amusingly
03:29:52 <elliott> it's not like any of it was submitted to a real journal or anything
03:29:57 <zzo38> Bike: O, what is *your* philosophy of this?
03:30:20 <Bike> of math? i suppose i'm a materialist.
03:30:54 <zzo38> Bike: Can you please be a bit more specific?
03:31:22 <mnoqy> my philosophy of math is "philosophy of math is silly"
03:31:37 <Bike> Also a good philosophy.
03:31:52 <Bike> But why not: I don't think mathematical objects "exist" in any meaningful or usefully talked about sense. Math is just a kind of useful thinking.
03:32:28 <elliott> sounds like formalism to me
03:32:55 <Bike> yeah, something like that.
03:33:02 <Bike> so i'll probably go full platonic at some point derp.
03:33:28 <mnoqy> my philosophy of things existing is "talking about things existing is silly"
03:33:56 <Bike> i think hilbert was kind of wack tho.
03:33:58 <Bike> so there's that.
03:34:09 <mnoqy> mnoqy philosophy: Q: what does it mean for something to exist / A: dont ask that question shut up shut up shut up
03:34:09 <oerjan> well your philosophy of things existing doesn't really exist, so there
03:34:28 <Bike> mnoqy: would you call yourself a sillyist
03:34:36 <lambdabot> No quotes for this person. Are you on drugs?
03:34:40 <lambdabot> Raguel says: does it unsettle anyone that there isn't a formal semantics for haskell? its like someone got drunk, invented a gadget, then when he woke up, couldn't quite draw a blueprint
03:34:43 <lambdabot> SaulGorn says: A formalist is one who cannot understand a theory unless it is meaningless.
03:34:58 <Bike> is that shachaf
03:35:49 <zzo38> Can you understand my implementation of a Turning machine in the sequent calculus?
03:36:16 <zzo38> Did you read it? Did you find a mistake within it?
03:36:34 <Bike> mnoqy: but seriously philosophy of math has /some/ use, if only to motivate weirdos to make non-classical logics etc
03:37:07 <mnoqy> Bike: ok so long as they need it to motivate them....i do like those non-classical logics
03:37:09 <Bike> maybe the mathematics establishment should just recruit in asylums to skip the middlemen
03:37:26 <zzo38> Well, yes perhaps it can motivate some things.
03:37:29 <Bike> non-classical logics are p. cool 'Bike stamp of approval'
03:37:57 <zzo38> Not only in mathematics, but I think this kind of motivation can be using in science too, in order to form hypotheses and so on.
03:38:37 <elliott> mnoqy's philosophy of mathematics allergy reminds me of the philosophy of mathematics allergy i used to have
03:38:56 <kmc> where's shachaf
03:38:58 <elliott> i also used to hate talking about anything i completely arbitrarily categorised as "politics"
03:39:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `i: not found
03:39:15 <Bike> now i rant about the NSA on twitter so that went well
03:39:18 <elliott> it was the "same kind of thing" i think
03:40:06 <Bike> hm i wonder if i can apply this "useful crazies" philosophy to psychology stuff none of you give a damn about
03:40:11 <elliott> i've forgotten how old bike is HELP
03:40:13 <Bike> i require more research on this
03:40:18 <kmc> `run printf "#!/bin/sh\n\necho 'DID YOU REALLY'\n" > 'bin/`i' && chmod +x 'bin/`i'
03:40:24 <kmc> ``i grew out of both''
03:41:24 <Bike> i haven't read any [psychologist's name] directly yet, i don't know if he was crazy. i know chomsky is kind of wack and skinner is super wack. everybody's wack
03:41:43 <augur> chomsky aint whack :|
03:41:49 <kmc> chomsky is an original gangsta
03:42:01 <augur> no hes really not :|
03:42:27 <mnoqy> do you have a ping on chomsky
03:42:33 <kmc> the great debate between Bike, augur, and mnoqy
03:42:37 <kmc> also does augur highlight on chomsky
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03:51:13 <zzo38> Can you please tell me if you like this "turing_sequent"?
03:51:29 <zzo38> And what the mistake is?
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04:07:58 <tswett> Heheh. Noit o' mnain gelb has materials called "copper", "zinc", and "metal".
04:12:30 <kmc> wire: the magnificent element
04:16:37 <tswett> Hmmm. So apparently I wrote this thing called evolver.py that creates a random subleq program and executes it.
04:19:01 <tswett> There's nothing determining the fitness of a program.
04:20:16 -!- myname has joined.
04:20:54 <tswett> So I'd like to give the programs fitness functions somehow.
04:21:33 <tswett> ¿Qué función de fitidad debo usar?
04:21:50 <Bike> optimize for good ascii art porn
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04:24:31 <tswett> I think I want to do rock-paper-scissors.
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05:03:23 <elliott> hey Bike, you should read this book for me. it's too long
05:03:47 <Bike> What does reading a book for you entail?
05:05:36 <Bike> that's just how i normally read books though
05:05:39 <Bike> what gives it the elliott touch
05:09:37 <elliott> because i told you to do it
05:09:59 <Bike> what do you get out of this though
05:10:32 <mnoqy> maybe ill read it once i stop having to do things
05:10:45 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
05:24:07 <tswett> There, now you can compete two genomes with each other to see which one is better at rock-paper-scissors.
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05:40:20 <shachaf> mnoqy: hey mnoqy philosophy is p. good can i have some more
05:41:05 <mnoqy> shachaf: "sure" - mnoqy philosophy
05:45:58 <kmc> not much, you?
05:49:09 <shachaf> i thought you were pinging me "maybe not"
05:49:16 <kmc> if so, don't remember why
05:49:44 <kmc> i'm telling people in another channel why they should all take LSD
05:49:48 <elliott> 04:38:56 <kmc> where's shachaf
05:50:02 <elliott> kmc: is it #lisp "continuity"
05:50:03 <kmc> "Three: Whenever shachaf is not on screen, all of the other characters should say 'Where's shachaf?'"
05:50:13 <kmc> shachaf: don't want to say because 'everyone will invade'
05:50:17 <kmc> elliott: that too
05:50:26 <mnoqy> telling people in another channel why they should all take LSD is hardly "not much", imo
05:50:53 <Bike> just a day in the life of drugzjokeman
05:50:55 <kmc> it's a pretty normal thing for me to do
05:51:01 <kmc> Bike: this is serious business
05:51:14 <Bike> drugzeriousman
05:51:21 <shachaf> by everybody do you mean "me+Sgeo"
05:51:43 <elliott> i will definitely fucking join #drugz
05:52:00 <elliott> somehow even when i say #drugz and mean it as a channel it looks like a hashtag
05:52:04 <elliott> mysterious properties of the word drugz
05:53:03 <elliott> if i take drugz will i be as cool as kmc; life's eternal mysterys
05:53:04 <kmc> 01:45 < kmc> i think we are all fundamentally lonely because we don't have access to any interior mental states other than our own
05:53:07 <kmc> 01:45 < kmc> and temporarily modifying the way your brain works is a way to escape that a bit
05:53:41 <shachaf> took me three tries not to read that as "inferior mental states"
05:53:57 <mnoqy> "interior mental states" is a very #drugz thing to say #drugz
05:54:25 <elliott> does caffeine count as a drugz
05:54:39 <shachaf> kmc: /set show_nickmode_empty off
05:54:39 <Bike> man i barely have access to my own mental state >:
05:54:42 <shachaf> elliott: /script load splitlong.pl
05:55:06 <shachaf> i have access to alt. mental states
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05:55:12 <kmc> ulterior mental states
05:55:49 <elliott> kmc: im sorry i have superpowers
05:58:24 <Bike> hey this reminds me of a pet peeve. kmc when you're talking about mental states and other psychological stuff don't refer to it as neuroscientific or anything, psychology is perfectly good. thx
05:58:52 <kmc> i don't follow
05:59:07 <Bike> it's just a peeve
05:59:16 <kmc> but did i do something which exhibits this peevish behavior
05:59:33 <kmc> ok well I'm still not sure what you meant
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06:05:57 <mnoqy> bike is this about people talking about psychological stuff but they think psychology is rubbish pseudoscience so they talk about it terms of the physical brain being in a weird state??? i may or may not have seen this happen like once
06:06:28 <kmc> software is rubbish pseudoscience, that's why i describe my programs in terms of what they do to transistors
06:06:37 <Bike> mnoqy: yeah basically that.
06:06:38 <shachaf> is Bike a neuropseudoscientist
06:07:29 <Bike> what set this off: i read that paper about rubberhose crypto again and it's described as "neuroscience" even though it's based on cog psych.
06:07:37 <kmc> [joke making fun of freud, ignores every psychologist since freud]
06:08:02 <Bike> that's the crypt/analysis/
06:08:05 <kmc> elliott: your comedic timing is impeccable
06:08:16 <shachaf> psychology is such a fræud
06:09:41 <Bike> "Neuroscience Meets Cryptography: Designing Crypto Primitives Secure Against Rubber Hose Attacks"
06:09:46 <Bike> read it or whatever i guess
06:10:04 <shachaf> Bike: Did you read _Three Men in a Boat_?
06:10:26 <shachaf> Did I mention it was published in 1889?
06:10:38 <Bike> no, but that was easiliy noticeable in the wikipedia article.
06:11:25 <shachaf> hey #esoteric needs more petitions
06:12:15 <Bike> petition to introduce more petitions: sign here ←
06:12:37 <shachaf> petition to introduce more petitions: sign here X ←
06:12:47 <kmc> this is because the bot spammed ##crypto with https://www.change.org/petitions/mtgox-add-litecoin-to-mtgox ?
06:12:50 <kmc> great petition imo
06:12:58 <kmc> it really sells the cause when every sentence contains a grammatical error
06:13:42 <shachaf> what if every sentence my gramma says contains a grammatical error
06:15:37 <Bike> why would you put this on change.org
06:16:18 <elliott> should put it on the whitehouse.gov thing instead imo
06:16:31 <shachaf> do they have a white house in .uk
06:17:09 <elliott> who was confused with the White House on at least one (1) occasion
06:17:16 <Bike> there's a russian one and an american one isn't that ENOUGH universe
06:18:23 <kmc> hey you whitehouse, ha ha charade you are
06:18:45 <elliott> kmc: that is what i was thinking of
06:18:46 <shachaf> hey did you see my moustache
06:18:49 <elliott> though the confusion may be apocryphal
06:18:53 <shachaf> whoa dude that word is weird
06:19:03 <shachaf> the american spelling drops the o instead of the u
06:20:27 <shachaf> kmc: do you get the feeling that person is just there to argue and not listen
06:20:43 <elliott> do i have to join this fuckn crypto channel
06:21:08 <Bike> well it sounds pretty bad from these reports!
06:23:03 <elliott> i'm getting too tired for this hott book
06:25:14 <Bike> @google hott book
06:25:15 <lambdabot> Plugin `search' failed with: user error (https not supported)
06:25:34 <Bike> shachaf won't survive this, elliott.
06:26:06 <Bike> metasepia..............................
06:26:21 <Bike> without a bot to search i feel very isolated.
06:26:38 <shachaf> mnoqy will be your search bot
06:27:01 <lambdabot> Title: Fuck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
06:27:04 <shachaf> !mnoqy nutrition facts of a carrot
06:27:07 <lambdabot> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/books/review/Roach-t.html?pagewanted=all
06:27:07 <lambdabot> Title: Book Review - 'Cold - Adventures In the World�s Frozen Places,' by Bill Str...
06:27:10 <lambdabot> Plugin `search' failed with: user error (https not supported)
06:27:17 <elliott> probably it's trying to read the title of an https url
06:27:17 <mnoqy> first result is https'y?
06:27:26 <elliott> WELL that goes on the todo list
06:27:36 <shachaf> what's on the todo list now
06:27:37 <lambdabot> 0. SamB: A way to get multiple results from a google search
06:27:37 <lambdabot> 1. dons: improve formatting of @dict
06:27:37 <lambdabot> 3. lispy: don't let lambdabot's prettyprinter split the sequence @foo across lines
06:27:37 <lambdabot> 4. TheHunter: priviledged users should get priviledged listcommands.
06:27:43 <lambdabot> 6. lispy: haddock gives a link from a type signature to the types. It would be nice if it also let you find functions in the given module that use a type.
06:27:47 <lambdabot> 8. dcoutts: implement @cool list, as a clone of the @todo(-add) commands
06:27:49 <lambdabot> 9. dons: there's some bug in the 'when i left' code of @seen
06:27:55 <lambdabot> 11. beelsebob_: @tell command - relays a message to someone when they next speak
06:27:57 <lambdabot> 12. dons: @seen on lambdabot should report lambdabot's channels too
06:27:59 <lambdabot> 13. ski: when printing first lines of infinite things (or all cases with nonexact), should say 'at least'
06:28:01 <lambdabot> 14. ski: provide '@more <number>', at least for privmsg
06:28:03 <mnoqy> shachaf: elliott told me to tell you to stop spamming
06:28:03 <Bike> @type 1 :: Int
06:28:07 <mnoqy> shachaf: i think it's serious
06:28:16 <shachaf> why didn't he tell me himself
06:28:18 <elliott> shachaf: mnoqy told me to tell him to tell you to stop spamming :-(
06:28:34 <elliott> the truth is... i am mnoqy
06:28:46 <shachaf> ok i'm putting elliott on /ignore
06:28:48 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v mnoqy.
06:29:11 <kmc> person in ##crypto is claiming that at least 10% of the bitcoin network power is compromised botnet machines
06:29:25 <Bike> is that plausible?
06:29:33 <kmc> i have no way of knowing
06:29:42 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v kmc.
06:29:51 <shachaf> It is very plausible that people in ##crypto will claim things.
06:30:25 <elliott> looks like the https thing is some other library's fault
06:32:04 <elliott> shachaf: am i on /ignore now
06:32:46 <kmc> why do i have voice
06:32:59 <Bike> is that a serious question
06:33:34 <mnoqy> reason probably similar to that of why i have voice
06:33:56 <shachaf> mnoqy: are you saying kmc is the best
06:34:15 <mnoqy> i don't know why i'm +v
06:34:20 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v mnoqy.
06:34:30 <shachaf> imo you can't both be the best
06:34:41 <shachaf> see http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2952
06:34:43 <Bike> glad we got that sorted
06:35:20 <elliott> shachaf: like referencing bible verses
06:35:32 <elliott> wow i thought that was a super mega link for like five whole seconds
06:35:33 <Bike> what's happening
06:35:39 <Bike> i thought it was super mega too
06:35:42 <Bike> i feel betrayed
06:36:48 <shachaf> Bike: hey speaking of super mega
06:36:54 <HackEgo> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
06:37:12 <mnoqy> wow lots of super mega recently!!!
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06:37:54 <shachaf> Bike: what's with all the mustaches on super mega
06:38:05 <Bike> i don't know. i'm not a super megxpert.
06:38:17 <elliott> @ask shachaf am i on ignore
06:38:48 <shachaf> @tell elliott yes, see above
06:39:04 <elliott> @tell shachaf i understand that's the kind of thing that's not meant to happen!!
06:41:20 <elliott> @tell shachaf i was making a homoros reference
06:41:46 <Bike> you're fucking
06:42:09 <mnoqy> "guys you're fucking fuck" - bike, voice of today's youth
06:42:25 <Bike> you know it's true
06:42:39 <kmc> you can't fuck in here! this is the sex room
06:43:00 <Bike> it's a shame that isn't a song lyric.
06:43:18 <elliott> kmc: i've never watched dr strangelove
06:43:23 <elliott> does that go before or after lsd
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06:43:58 <shachaf> _Dr. Strangelove_ is good.
06:44:06 <mnoqy> dr strangelove is good
06:44:07 <elliott> what about the version without the underscores
06:44:10 <mnoqy> ive never seen lsd
06:44:22 <elliott> what about the version without the underscores but with the dot and with one of the capitals
06:44:39 <shachaf> Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb is good.
06:45:03 <mnoqy> how about in camlcase
06:45:46 <shachaf> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DrStrangeLove
06:45:53 <Bike> dr bloodmoney, or how we got along after the bomb
06:46:36 <shachaf> Bike: Did you watch _Dr. Strangelove_?
06:46:43 <Bike> i watched jerkcity
06:47:52 <Bike> athens wasn't a jerkcity for killing socrates!
06:47:55 <Bike> i mean, he was a jerk.
06:48:22 <Bike> but not the jerkcity
06:48:31 <Bike> because he wasn't a city.
06:48:34 <Bike> i mean we all know the syllogism.
06:48:50 <mnoqy> i'd watch a jerkcity film
06:49:05 <elliott> nobody really has a choice in fact
06:49:27 <Bike> all men are mortal;
06:49:49 <shachaf> It doesn't talk about cities.
06:49:54 <Bike> that's the one
06:49:58 <Bike> no but it says he's a man.
06:50:08 <shachaf> But it doesn't say he's not a city.
06:51:06 <elliott> does it say whether or not he'd watch a jerkcity film
06:51:49 <shachaf> kmc: i am very irritable lately what do i do
06:52:08 <kmc> do you know why?
06:53:08 <shachaf> Does the + mean that you're my attorney?
06:53:21 <Bike> http://wondermark.com/943/ kmc versus realty
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06:55:45 <kmc> shachaf: does the start of irritability coïncide with some other change
06:57:22 <kmc> Bike: there's a restaurant down the street and their menu contains wordart where the name of the restaurant is rendered anti-aliased on top of a white background and then all the non-white pixels were composited on top of a dark image
06:57:42 <kmc> is there a name for that particular kind of fuckup
06:58:19 <mnoqy> i mean, that sort of fuckup
06:58:21 <mnoqy> not that restaurant
06:59:14 <shachaf> Bike: http://davidmalki.tumblr.com/post/52931217555/hey-its-a-comic-wondermark-943-dont-give-it
06:59:30 <shachaf> Much nicer, isn't it? 2x2, bigger text.
06:59:49 <Bike> tumblr sucks, though
07:01:37 <shachaf> It's amazing how uninterested I am in helping people as soon as I find out they're using e.g. Yesod/conduit.
07:01:48 <shachaf> I bet some people feel the same way about lens.
07:01:59 <mnoqy> "take it to -lens"
07:04:52 <shachaf> Sgeo: what is your bot prefix
07:05:09 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
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07:43:53 <kmc> shachaf: why uninterested
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10:33:38 <Taneb> I don't think so, Phantom_Hoover
10:33:47 <Taneb> fizzie, you should hear my sick beats
10:33:56 <Taneb> shachaf, I don't think so
10:34:03 <Taneb> Don't have any bubons
10:34:05 <fizzie> How about the bucolic plague?
10:34:28 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, you have
10:34:34 <Taneb> I thus far have not watched it
10:35:17 <shachaf> that's the thing with scorpion isn't it
10:36:27 <shachaf> i think someone showed me one episode once
10:38:35 <shachaf> is that episode representative
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11:13:41 <shachaf> hey mnoqy if a matrix is really a linear function, what's a determinant
11:15:38 <mnoqy> the way i did determinants was as follows:
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11:17:42 <shachaf> is the joke that you didn't do determinants
11:17:57 <mnoqy> first define determinants on matrices over a field F axiomatically as: alternating multilinear function (F^n)^n -> F s.t. det(I) = 1
11:18:12 <mnoqy> you derive a bunch of properties of determinants
11:18:38 <mnoqy> like det(A^{-1}) = det(A)^{-1}, and det(AB) = det(A)det(B)
11:18:53 <mnoqy> AND THEN since all matrix representations of a linear function are similar
11:19:28 <mnoqy> you define det(f) := det([f]_{arbitrary basis})
11:20:24 <mnoqy> i can elaborate further if it wasnt clear but thats the short version
11:20:55 <shachaf> i wish i wasn't falling asleep right now :'(
11:21:08 <shachaf> maybe i'll ask you more tomrorrowr
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13:11:04 <elliott> i connected to chat.eu.freenode.net
13:11:09 <elliott> and get a server in new jersey
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13:13:08 <fizzie> Perhaps that's New Jersey, Italy.
13:13:25 <fizzie> chat.eu.freenode.net is an alias for chat.freenode.net.
13:14:08 <fizzie> http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml has also removed the continental aliases for Europe and US.
13:14:57 <fizzie> I think the only conclusion you can draw is that some sort of Lorentz contraction has brought Europe and the states together.
13:17:40 <AnotherTest> Resulting velocity: 0 - Displacement x: 1.088
13:21:18 <elliott> i assign fizzie to ask #freenode
13:21:41 <fizzie> I assign #freenode to ##esoteric and then you can ask here.
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13:29:03 <elliott> I wonder if I should just connect to holmes.freenode.net
13:29:06 <elliott> it has 1 ms ping from my server
13:33:16 <elliott> fizzie: would that be a "good idea"
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13:42:34 <elliott> fizzie i am literally incapable of making decisions without your help
13:43:40 <Koen_> why, is fizzie Keeper of the Coin?
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13:44:32 <Koen_> I've always hated logic lessons at the university
13:45:18 <Koen_> it felt like the teacher was trying to convince us that the most basic common sense was actually an obscure science
13:45:24 <Phantom_Hoover> logic here is great because it's technically a philosophy course
13:45:42 <Phantom_Hoover> so it's basically aimed at people who have never had to do a proof in their lives
13:47:10 <Koen_> and it makes you feel superior I understand the feeling bro
13:47:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: was it about monoids
13:48:25 <elliott> Koen_: "common sense" doesn't exist and judgements that are simple in the surface can be very complex from a theory pov
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13:50:48 <elliott> @tell ais523 a new featured language would be great twh
13:55:51 <nooodl> i dislike german exams, they're so schwierig
13:57:35 <fizzie> elliott: Well ef-wee-ai-wee I do connect to explicit servers, if you know what I mean.
13:58:30 <elliott> I like how you're on a US server
13:58:51 <fizzie> I think I listed two explicit and the now borken chat.eu in my bouncer config.
13:59:06 <fizzie> rajaniemi, lindbohm and chat.eu.
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14:05:22 <elliott> i wonder how often holmes goes down......
14:05:47 <elliott> do i dare rest the fate of lambdabot on one server!!
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16:38:07 <zzo38> u.type=SDL_USEREVENT;
16:38:07 <zzo38> e.type=SDL_USEREVENT;
16:38:08 <zzo38> SDL_PushEvent(&e);
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16:38:23 <coppro> zzo38 appears to have segfaulted?
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17:09:24 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of game? http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSbackgammonches
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17:51:52 <zzo38> Is this a real question?
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18:44:03 <kmc> fucking arizona
18:44:07 <kmc> too good for daylight savings time
18:45:16 <zzo38> I don't like daylight saving time.
18:57:30 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
19:06:55 -!- itsy has joined.
19:11:37 <kmc> what a shock
19:16:24 <shachaf> I like daylight saving time.
19:16:31 <shachaf> I don't like standard time, though.
19:16:49 <kmc> you and zzo38 are doomed to be forever an hour apart
19:16:53 <olsner> I like all the time in the world
19:17:25 <shachaf> kmc's +v makes me feel uneasy.
19:17:43 -!- Koen__ has joined.
19:18:22 <kmc> oh i guess i could -v myself
19:18:26 <kmc> but... i won't
19:19:14 <shachaf> (Are you sure one can -v oneself?)
19:19:42 <FreeFull> You can't without at least halfop priviledges
19:19:43 -!- Koen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
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19:20:14 <kmc> i will relinquish my -v as soon as the civil emergency is over, I promise
19:20:22 <FreeFull> Well, maybe you could -v using chanserv
19:20:27 <olsner> what's the civil emergency?
19:21:48 <FreeFull> But I'm unhappy that the Haskell package doesn't allow you to write your own function for sound using SDL
19:22:19 <FreeFull> On the C side, you can provide a user-written callback which fills a buffer
19:22:22 <zzo38> FreeFull: Will it work if you write the function for sound in C?
19:22:33 <FreeFull> The Haskell library seems to just have skipped over it
19:22:34 <zzo38> And you can write the other part of the program in Haskell?
19:22:38 <FreeFull> Although I see why it'd be hard
19:24:11 <kmc> it's not that hard to turn Haskell functions into C function pointers
19:24:28 <kmc> you could just write your own foreign import for that function
19:24:33 <fizzie> (One can always also go away and come back.)
19:24:35 <shachaf> Or even Haskell IO actions!
19:25:50 <zzo38> Yes, you could do that, but due to the way the sound works in SDL it seems it might not necessarily work.
19:29:46 <kmc> it might not be real time enough
19:35:18 <Koen__> zzo38: so when you capture a backgammon pawn on the chess board, it gets transferred to the backgammon board's jail
19:35:31 <Koen__> but how do you transfer a pawn from the backgammon board to the chess board?
19:38:19 <zzo38> Koen__: Chess pieces in backgammon board move like stones of backgammon while there. I fixed this rule now.
19:39:01 <Koen__> yeah but my question is: how do you transfer a piece to the backgammon board?
19:39:16 <Koen__> how do you transfer a piece to the chess board?
19:39:31 <zzo38> They are bear off.
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19:40:18 <zzo38> O no wait, I was wrong.
19:40:28 <zzo38> Chess pieces captured in chess board are removed from the game.
19:40:31 <Taneb> I'm feeling somewhat better than I was before
19:41:01 <zzo38> Only stones, not chess pieces, are placed in jail when captured from chess board.
19:41:07 <zzo38> Is this understandable now?
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19:51:32 <FreeFull> I wonder when lambdabot will have lenses again
19:52:40 <Taneb> :t \f (a, b) -> fmap ((,) b) (f a)
19:52:41 <lambdabot> Functor f => (t -> f a) -> (t, a1) -> f (a1, a)
19:53:22 <Taneb> :t \f (a, b) -> fmap ((,) a) (f b)
19:53:23 <lambdabot> Functor f => (t -> f a) -> (a1, t) -> f (a1, a)
19:54:16 <Taneb> I AM MANUALLY ADDING LENS TO LAMBDABOT SO HELP ME GOD
19:54:20 <Taneb> @let _2 f (a, b) = (,) a <$> f b; _2 :: Functor f => (a -> f b) -> (c, a) -> f (c, b)
19:54:50 <zzo38> Can you view my sequent calculus of Turing machines now? Please tell me if there is a mistake!
19:54:59 <shachaf> @let type Lens s t a b = forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t
19:55:00 <lambdabot> Parse failed: TypeOperators is not enabled
19:55:23 <Bike> do you even need a forall there
19:55:33 <shachaf> @let type Lens s t a b = Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t
19:55:37 <FreeFull> You know, one could probably fork, and open a pull request with the Trustworthy stuff
19:55:45 <Taneb> :t \l f -> runIdentity . l (Identity . f)
19:55:48 <lambdabot> ((a1 -> Identity b) -> a -> Identity c) -> (a1 -> b) -> a -> c
19:56:27 <Taneb> @ let over l f = runIdentity . l (Identity . f); over :: ((a -> Identity b) -> s -> Identity t) -> (a -> b) -> s -> t
19:56:33 <Taneb> @let over l f = runIdentity . l (Identity . f); over :: ((a -> Identity b) -> s -> Identity t) -> (a -> b) -> s -> t
19:56:34 <Bike> shachaf: btw three men is p. good
19:56:43 <Taneb> > over _2 (+ 1) (1, 2)
19:56:44 <shachaf> Bike: what about the boat and the dog
19:56:49 <Taneb> > over _2 (+ 1) (1, 2)
19:56:50 <Bike> the dog's good
19:56:54 <Bike> not sure re: the boat yet
19:57:03 <shachaf> di you only read chapter 0
19:57:03 <FreeFull> " type Lens s t a b = forall f. Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t"
19:57:13 <Bike> i'm on chapter: iii
19:57:18 <shachaf> Did I really write Applicative?
19:57:28 <FreeFull> Applicative would be a traversal I think
19:57:35 <shachaf> @let type Lens s t a b = Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t
19:57:47 <shachaf> @let _2 f (a, b) = (,) a <$> f b; _2 :: Lens (e,a) (e,b) a b
19:58:01 <shachaf> @let over l f = runIdentity . l (Identity . f); over :: ((a -> Identity b) -> s -> Identity t) -> (a -> b) -> s -> t
19:58:03 <FreeFull> Did that just undefine everything?
19:58:16 <Bike> no, he's just redefining _2 w/ his fancy-ass type
19:58:28 <shachaf> Yes, it did just undefined everything.
19:58:39 <shachaf> @let view l = getConst . l Const
19:58:41 <lambdabot> ((a1 -> Const a1 b1) -> a -> Const c b) -> a -> c
19:58:57 <shachaf> > view _2 (over _2 (*5) ("hi",20))
19:59:25 <Bike> > over _2 (*5) ("test",19)
19:59:51 <shachaf> For the reason lambdabot said.
19:59:52 <Bike> because _1 doesn't exist
20:01:24 <shachaf> /msg lambdabot > view _2 (3,4)
20:02:32 <FreeFull> @let _1 f (a, b) = (,) b <$> f a; _1 :: Lens (e,a) (e,b) b a
20:04:27 <FreeFull> _2 seems a bit easier to define than _1, because of how fmap works with tuples
20:12:21 <Taneb> ...isn't any occupied type a terminal object in Hask?
20:12:51 <shachaf> Any type with one inhabitant is.
20:13:13 <Taneb> Ah, there's a word "single" that I was missing
20:13:20 <Taneb> And I meant inhabited
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20:37:18 <zzo38> I think the Turing machine sequent calculus could be consistently combined with classical logic; last time I think I made a mistake when I said it can't.
20:47:17 <Taneb> I should probably play Kerbal Space Program
20:50:47 <Taneb> Except a) I cannot find my bank card and b) I have exams happening
21:04:36 <shachaf> kmc: Oh, you can improve that CM sketch thing if you only need to allow adding, rather than deleting.
21:05:52 <zzo38> O no, even though Turing machine and classical logic together might be consistent, it isn't very useful for this purpose because any of the pieces of the tape might spontaneously lose data and be reset to the default symbol.
21:06:40 <zzo38> Maybe it is useful if you want to make that kind of Turing machine, perhaps......
21:06:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:07:18 <Taneb> itsy, did anyone give you an answer to your riddle?
21:07:21 <kmc> what is CM sketch thing
21:07:48 <kmc> what do you do if you don't allow deleting
21:09:03 <shachaf> You can compute the minimum before incrementing, and then you don't need to increment the counters that are already bigger than the new minimum.
21:13:35 <itsy> Taneb: not yet
21:14:01 <Taneb> Because I think I have an answer
21:16:40 <kmc> shachaf: that is good for concurrent access I guess.
21:16:51 <shachaf> Oh, the one with the bitwise &?
21:17:48 <zzo38> The one of what with the bitwise &?
21:18:08 <shachaf> I guess it wasn't a bitwise &.
21:18:22 <shachaf> itsy: Please fix your IRC client to send UTF-8 instead of ISO-8859-1 or whatever it is it does.
21:18:34 <Bike> a and b were >= 2, right?
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21:20:58 <kmc> reducing the number of increments
21:21:51 <Bike> I guess a and b coul be and 4, then
21:25:26 <Bike> http://plv.csail.mit.edu/bedrock/ this seems this-channel-y.
21:25:51 <Phantom_Hoover> http://wrongquestions.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/dark-knight.html you know i really am glad i found this thing
21:26:46 <kmc> Bike: cool
21:37:24 -!- mnoqy has joined.
21:38:20 <zzo38> Bike: It may be the good idea. I like this ideas. Does it mean this "cross-platform machine language" can be compile into others? Can it work with self-modifying code? etc?
21:39:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:40:55 <zzo38> I thought of some kinds of extended sequent calculus, such as one where rules have priorities assigned and you are not allowed to use any rule unless there isn't any available rule of a higher priority, and rules with side effects, and possibly other things.
21:42:18 <zzo38> What kind of strange logic can be made up with such things?
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21:51:48 <oerjan> why did they leave with such a nick they should fit right in
21:52:15 <shachaf> oerjan: i had a dream that there were a bunch of `olist updates
21:52:43 <oerjan> shachaf: you were probably just trapped by that illusion spell in the recent one
21:53:46 <shachaf> should i have realized ))oh wait there are never a whole lot `olist updates at once(( and thereby become unillusioned
21:54:14 <oerjan> shachaf: well there was several in a row earlier this year
21:55:55 <Bike> no, what am i thinking.
21:56:08 <Bike> no wait two and six should work.
21:58:12 <shachaf> oerjan: yes well he got paid a million dollars to do those nine in a row
21:59:51 <oerjan> could have got awkward if he had had to stop after eight on the first try
22:02:28 <oerjan> wait is lambdabot notifying of messages in private now
22:02:40 <shachaf> and in the meanwhile armikrog isn't even at its goal :'(
22:02:50 <Bike> itsy: is it two and six this is bothering me now agh
22:03:21 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_.
22:03:48 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan.
22:03:56 <itsy> Bike: so Pat knows the product 12 and Sam knows the sum 8.
22:04:27 -!- oerjan_ has joined.
22:04:37 <Bike> sam thinks it's 2,6 or 3,5 but if it's 3,5, Pat would know them from their product
22:04:46 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Client Quit).
22:06:34 <Bike> 12 could be 2,6 or 3,4 so Pat doesn't know.
22:06:36 <lambdabot> tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages
22:08:19 <Bike> I thought they were restricted to be between 2 and 99.
22:08:58 <itsy> If Sam knows the sum is 8, a and b could be 3 and 5. If they're 3 and 5, then Pat has the product 15 and can calculate a and b. Sam knows that Pat doesn't know the answer, but if the sum is 8, Pat might know...
22:09:28 <Bike> so did i get it right or what. i need riddle cred.
22:09:44 <Bike> alt. answers include: 7 and 37 and Sam and Pat are just not good at math
22:11:27 <itsy> Bike: all possible a and b pairs that add up to the sum must contain at least one composite number. Otherwise Sam can't possibly know that Pat doesn't know the answer.
22:11:49 <nooodl> "<Bike> 12 could be 2,6 or 3,4 so Pat doesn't know." <--- i read these as decimal numbers and was very confused hh
22:12:16 <Phantom_Hoover> your own fault for living in a country with dumb decimal formattign
22:12:32 <Bike> I thought Sam knew Pat didn't know the answer because he said so
22:12:39 <kmc> hope that helps when proceeded by its quotation
22:12:54 <kmc> whatever the fuck
22:13:32 <nooodl> Phantom_Hoover: do you know how we write tuples
22:14:33 <shachaf> £ doesn't actually exist outside .uk
22:14:38 <nooodl> if there aren't any decimals in any of the numbers it's just (1, 2)
22:14:45 <kmc> @let (£) = (,)
22:14:45 <lambdabot> Parse failed: Parse error in pattern: � �
22:14:50 <kmc> ffffffffffffff
22:14:53 <nooodl> if there are, you gotta write (1,2; 3,4)
22:15:09 <kmc> we can land a man on the moon but we can't make a haskell eval bot that handles non-ASCII characters
22:15:25 <nooodl> also some people (even books) use . instead of \cdot to mean multiplication hth
22:15:32 <shachaf> kmc: i bet it'll handle iso-8859-1
22:15:38 <kmc> nooodl: typewritten ones?
22:15:39 <Bike> well, people do that in americaland too.
22:15:46 <itsy> What value are a and b?
22:15:46 <itsy> 2 <= a <= b <= 99
22:15:46 <itsy> Sam knows the sum a + b.
22:15:46 <itsy> Pat knows the product a * b.
22:15:46 <itsy> Sam says: "I don't know a and b. I also know that you don't know."
22:15:47 <itsy> Pat says: "I do now!"
22:15:47 <itsy> Sam says: "So do I."
22:15:47 <Bike> I mean, they suck, but they do it.
22:15:51 <kmc> publishing maths before LaTeX was grim
22:16:09 <Bike> Too complicated for me
22:16:17 <nooodl> nope, actual modern typeset books
22:18:05 <Phantom_Hoover> i heard a story about some pre-latex textbook where the guy wrote "bla bla bla \epsilon" and then had a footnote at the bottom saying "\epsilon should be as small as possible"
22:18:32 <Phantom_Hoover> which the printers interpreted as an instruction to print the epsilon really tiny
22:18:35 <oerjan> kmc: hey ghc is more complicated than all the moon landing software combined, of course it's harder hth
22:19:17 <nooodl> Phantom_Hoover: that's cute
22:20:03 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: one of the traditional student songs here has a "but bigger!" in the middle because of an instruction the printers missed
22:20:11 <olsner> (that's the story anyway)
22:20:35 <zzo38> kmc: Publishing maths works fine without LaTeX if you have Plain TeX + AMS fonts, or even AMS-TeX. (I suppose LaTeX might not be good enough either for some things, unless you are using AMS-LaTeX.)
22:22:22 <zzo38> (Actually, even Plain TeX alone has many math fonts, although sometimes you might want to add AMS fonts)
22:22:49 <oerjan> olsner: clearly we are approaching someone making a limerick made solely out of proofreading notes
22:26:47 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
22:27:27 <oerjan> <mnoqy> first define determinants on matrices over a field F axiomatically as: alternating multilinear function (F^n)^n -> F s.t. det(I) = 1 <-- did you remember to prove that exists twh
22:27:57 <oerjan> also you only need F to be a commutative ring iirc
22:29:42 <mnoqy> "i forgot that part"
22:33:04 <shachaf> What do I do with an old expired passport?
22:33:26 <zzo38> Sell it to someone as a fake passport.
22:34:10 <shachaf> But the corners are cut to mark it as expired.
22:39:39 <kmc> Honest Shachaf's Fake Passport: We cut corners and pass the savings on to YOU!
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22:41:28 <oerjan> <Taneb> I AM MANUALLY ADDING LENS TO LAMBDABOT SO HELP ME GOD <-- finally snapped?
22:41:40 <shachaf> hey oerjan did you ever learn lens
22:43:59 <oerjan> http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/emmental/EmmUnl.hs
22:51:03 <shachaf> newPosMap ^. mapping swapped?
22:56:54 <nooodl> oerjan: nice weed function
22:58:30 <oerjan> ...too tired to read my own code :/
23:03:32 <itsy> Sam knows that Pat doesn't know: therefore the number Sam knows is not the sum of two primes. (A, B, or both are composite)
23:03:32 <itsy> Pat figures out the numbers now he knows Sam knows he doesn't know: therefore there's only one way to factor the product Pat knows into two numbers whose sum is not also the sum of two primes.
23:03:32 <itsy> Sam figures out the numbers now he knows Pat knows them: therefore there's only one pair of number which add up to the number Sam knows whose product can be factored into two numbers whose sum is not also the sum of two primes.
23:03:38 <itsy> Or something...
23:04:08 <Bike> just write it out in lens
23:04:09 <oerjan> oh right that's what the weed functions did
23:05:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
23:06:18 -!- oerjan has joined.
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23:07:03 <hagb4rd> http://abload.de/img/dit83b2d.jpg
23:07:52 <Bike> i was expecting illegal porn. v. disappointed
23:08:14 -!- hagb4rd has changed nick to partyb4rd.
23:08:17 <oerjan> well it _does_ say "fuck you" in german
23:09:12 <partyb4rd> it's "how's your diet".."fuck you"
23:09:14 <kmc> we are amused
23:09:27 <kmc> the royal +v
23:09:30 <shachaf> oerjan: can i petition for kmc to be devoiced
23:09:42 <oerjan> shachaf: sure, just ask elliott
23:09:44 <shachaf> oerjan: his nick is designed to be three letters long
23:09:44 <Bike> it's my understanding that elliott is voice dictator for life
23:09:50 <shachaf> my alignment is getting messed up
23:10:00 <kmc> petition the ad-hoc subcommittee on voicings
23:10:55 <shachaf> hey remember partitionmagic
23:11:07 <shachaf> remember the floppy it could make
23:11:16 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:11:24 <shachaf> you could boot to the floppy and it had a gui and everything
23:11:44 <kmc> i think I had a trial version of PartitionMagic that came with Red Hat Linux 6.0 in the back of a book about Red Hat Linux 6.0
23:12:06 <kmc> shachaf: yeah like a fake Windows 95 GUI
23:12:08 <kmc> it was the best
23:13:57 -!- DANIELA has joined.
23:14:24 <HackEgo> DANIELA: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
23:14:24 <HackEgo> DANIELA: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
23:16:13 <oerjan> i wonder how many people have left our channel in disgust because the welcome wiki links don't work
23:16:38 <HackEgo> works: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:16:57 <shachaf> Hmm, except for the period. It links to [[Main page.]]
23:17:03 <shachaf> That sounds like a great esolang name to me.
23:20:53 <oerjan> it's a bit remarkable that no one has named something notable "main page" yet
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23:39:17 <kmc> today is alonzo church's \f x -> f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f x)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
23:41:56 <Phantom_Hoover> have i mentioned that alonzo church's son dated haskell curry's daughter
23:43:20 <Bike> > (\f x -> f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f(f (f x))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (*2) 1
23:43:21 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatche...
23:43:44 <kmc> ('th birthday)
23:46:06 <kmc> f (u (c (k (i t))))
23:46:26 <kmc> how long can IRC channel topics be? asking for a friend
23:47:18 <kmc> i started writing a more concise lambda term for 110 but ran out of give a fuck
23:47:36 <Bike> 390, according to the server, which might be lying
23:47:39 <kmc> are there cool algorithms for finding the most concise lambda term for a given church numeral
23:47:50 <oerjan> 01:06 CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 CHARSET=ascii NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 TOPICLEN=390 ETRACE CPRIVMSG CNOTICE DEAF=D MONITOR=100 FNC
23:47:57 <Bike> isn't it basically the kolmogorov complexity
23:48:33 <Bike> so the cool algorithm is fuck you got mine
23:48:40 <Bike> i guess you could do something easyish like factoring
23:48:42 <kmc> ok so lets say by 'most concise' i meant 'pretty concise' and only for small numbers
23:48:50 <kmc> i was going to use binary
23:49:03 <Bike> log is pretty concise
23:49:37 <kmc> i got it working fine with 'let' in Haskell but transforming that to lambdas fails because lambda args are monomorphic
23:49:42 <kmc> fucking types, am i right
23:53:28 <oerjan> > (\d s z -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (d (s (d (s z))))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f x -> x)(+1)0
23:53:55 <oerjan> > (\d s z -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (s (d (s z))))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f x -> x)(+1)0
23:53:56 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:56: parse error on input `)'
23:54:04 <oerjan> > (\d s z -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (s (d (s z)))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f x -> x)(+1)0
23:55:33 <oerjan> > (\d s o -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (s (d o))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f -> f)(+1)0
23:55:51 <nooodl> Phantom_Hoover: help i can't tell how joking you are
23:56:39 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean i might just be wrong, i am basing this off some random internet rumours
23:56:57 <nooodl> i can't find any citations at least...
23:57:09 <Bike> it's hard to find stuff on the personal lives of these people
23:57:14 <Phantom_Hoover> and don't quote me on the claim that they had a lovechild who went on to become <major computer legend>
23:57:27 <Bike> that sounds kind of dumbassed
23:57:28 <Phantom_Hoover> http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/haskell-curry-yes-i-dated-his-daughter/
23:57:40 <Bike> if you want that you can just stick with the curies, not the curries
23:58:11 <kmc> a lovechild who went on to become steve yegge
23:58:52 <Phantom_Hoover> a lovechild who went on to become benedict cumberbatch
23:59:00 <Bike> is that guy real
23:59:07 <Bike> are chickens real