00:00:01 <Bike> is nooodl real
00:00:15 <Bike> `thanks chickens
00:00:17 <HackEgo> Thanks, chickens. Thickens.
00:00:39 <nooodl> [1]: http://zapatopi.net/belgium/
00:03:31 <Phantom_Hoover> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Benedict_Cumberbatch_2011_(jpg).jpg/220px-Benedict_Cumberbatch_2011_(jpg).jpg
00:03:49 <Phantom_Hoover> how can people be so enamoured with a man who looks this posh
00:05:47 <kmc> http://redscharlach.tumblr.com/post/19565284869/otters-who-look-like-benedict-cumberbatch-a
00:07:07 <Phantom_Hoover> the sherlock hair people really did a great job of making him look normal
00:09:16 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:14:51 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
00:16:08 <Sgeo> Active Worlds is now free
00:20:25 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:23:26 <kmc> active worlds free, real world still pretty oppressed
00:33:48 <shachaf> kmc: does +kmc indicate that your evil twin -kmc is on the loose
00:34:01 <Fiora> it means that he's really positive about what he's saying
00:34:24 <Bike> +kmc and *kmc form a field
00:34:34 <shachaf> maybe he is the evil twin...........
00:34:43 <Fiora> if we collide +kmc and -cmk do we get annihilation?
00:34:55 <Bike> kmc: what;s your spin
00:35:07 <kmc> maybe it means i'm at PLUS ONE on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shulgin_Rating_Scale
00:35:24 <Bike> because it's awesome
00:35:29 <Fiora> Phantom_Hoover: but, like, parity, right?
00:35:49 <Bike> kmc: PLUS FOUR is p. great
00:36:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, if you're going for a quantum mechanics thing then probably
00:36:23 <kmc> yeah good description
00:36:23 <Fiora> sorry I was making a bad antimatter joke ._.
00:37:11 <shachaf> Fiora: Did you hear of my new word, "antícheirocracy"?
00:37:52 <shachaf> can you figure out what it means
00:38:33 <Fiora> cheirocracy would be um... rule by asymmetry?
00:38:41 <Fiora> anti-rule-by-asymmetry?
00:39:12 <shachaf> antícheir or some variation means "thumb" hth
00:39:31 <Phantom_Hoover> 'cheirocracy' basically means 'rule by force' apparently
00:39:45 <Bike> rule by giant talking thumbs
00:39:57 <Bike> `pastelogs antícheirocracy
00:40:38 <Bike> `run ls bin/*past*
00:40:40 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.509
00:40:42 <HackEgo> bin/pastalog \ bin/pastaquote \ bin/paste \ bin/pastefortunes \ bin/pastekarma \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastelogs \ bin/pastenquotes \ bin/pastequotes \ bin/pastewisdom \ bin/pastlog
00:40:43 <shachaf> npt to be confused with "chairocracy", which is how Microsoft works.
00:41:33 <Bike> "rule of thumb"
00:41:36 <Bike> shachaf: sit in the corner
00:41:47 <shachaf> (remember those jokes) (nostalgia)
00:42:02 * kmc exploits content type sniffing on pastes to steal all your codu.org cookies
00:42:22 <Fiora> that's amazingly amazingly horribly amazingh
00:42:45 * Fiora tries to hide her giggles while still at work
00:43:42 <Bike> shachaf: sit in every corner
00:43:54 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__).
00:43:56 <kmc> idgi re msft
00:44:33 <Bike> @wn chairocracy
00:44:35 <Bike> chairs i guess
00:45:10 <Bike> republican national convention joke
00:45:37 <shachaf> kmc: "oldskool steve ballmer joke" hth
00:45:39 <Fiora> or maybe a ballmer joke?
00:47:31 <Bike> i'm a conservative, the only ballmer jokes i tolerate are developers
00:47:44 <shachaf> Bike: how can you sit in every corner........in a perfectly round room
00:49:09 <Bike> with the power of calculus, there are infinite corners!!
00:51:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
01:18:45 <Sgeo> Eep. Saw an ad for Monster and confused it for Monster Cable for a second
01:20:57 <Sgeo> I can't hear the mosquito tone :(
01:22:38 <kmc> does that mean you are a mosquito
01:24:19 <kmc> that would be sad because mosquitoes do not live very long
01:27:02 <Phantom_Hoover> trying to think of a way to link this to the picture of him in a blood costume
01:28:08 <Bike> The one you can only hear until you're 20-something
01:28:14 <Bike> popular as a ringtone among teenaged fuckheads
01:28:35 <kmc> those bastards, making it so i can't be annoyed by their phones
01:28:49 <shachaf> i want a ringtone based on the shepard tone
01:29:06 <kmc> you should make one
01:29:08 <kmc> using sox maybe
01:29:17 <kmc> or just like 'write a c program'
01:29:37 <Fiora> it says that 18-24 can only hear up to ~16khz but I can hear the hihgest 18khz one fine
01:29:43 <Fiora> I guess this means I'm actually 17
01:29:47 <kmc> my fortune cookie fortune: "☺ Handsome is that handsome dose. ☺"
01:29:59 <shachaf> Fiora: maybe your headphones are broken
01:30:19 <Bike> kmc: it's annoying because then they set it off in class and the other students have to convince the teacher that somebody's being a dick
01:30:43 <kmc> let them work it out amongst themselves
01:30:45 <kmc> stanford prison style
01:31:05 <Bike> a good precedent
01:34:20 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone_paradox hm i didn't know the absolute pitch bit
01:41:12 <zzo38> The computer program's strategy seems to always attack 74-gun ships. My strategy is to attack whichever ship the opponent has less of, and to otherwise attack many ships instead of always the same one (using 74-gun ships when attacking many and 64-gun ships when focusing my attacks on heavily damaged ships), making refit and extra damage cards worse for them.
01:43:29 <Phantom_Hoover> <Fiora> it says that 18-24 can only hear up to ~16khz but I can hear the hihgest 18khz one fine
01:43:54 <Phantom_Hoover> back when i was a teenage fuckhead i knew a 50-odd-year-old who could hear it
01:44:27 <Bike> the chosen one...
01:47:11 <Sgeo> "Episode 1 will be released to the public in:
01:47:19 <Sgeo> The seconds I guess I didn't manage to copy
01:47:26 <Sgeo> (Episode 1 of RvB season 11)
01:48:19 <Fiora> no no no don't justify it I will use this as proof I'm not old yet <.<
01:48:48 <kmc> zzo38: do you win with this strategy?
01:48:59 <shachaf> Fiora: you're older than i am, therefore you're old
01:49:27 <zzo38> kmc: Not always, but it seems to help a bit.
01:50:18 <zzo38> (Note that you can only make one attack per turn, and only attack one ship per turn, too. Also, some cards cause your own ships to catch fire and hit icebergs and sink and whatever.)
01:51:26 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: The quoted figures are probabilistic.
01:51:39 <pikhq> The typical 50 year old can't hear 18kHz.
01:51:45 <pikhq> But individual 50 year olds sure can.
01:52:01 * pikhq is proud to be a provider of obvious facts
01:52:57 <Sgeo> My dad thinks I might have hearing loss. I think I might have earwax
01:53:04 <kmc> Take Our Internet "Real Age" Quiz (using psychoacoustic observations)
01:54:12 <Phantom_Hoover> i like how all of the demonstrations have a comment pointing out that there's an obvious discontinuity
01:54:16 <kmc> `addquote <+kmc> we are amused <+kmc> the royal +v
01:54:19 <HackEgo> 1052) <+kmc> we are amused <+kmc> the royal +v
01:54:37 <zzo38> However, if they have an equal number 74-guns and 64-guns, attacking the 74-guns ships is usually better since those ships can cause more damage with an attack. However, you need the correct 74-gun broadside or 64-gun broadside card for a kind of ship to attack, so if you think they have all 64-guns cards and the deck has mostly 64-guns cards then try attacking 64-guns ships.
01:54:42 <Bike> kmc: i assume the age test works by playing "Satisfaction" and "Runaway" back to back and asking which is "real music"
01:54:56 <kmc> it is my royal prerogative
01:55:05 <Fiora> Bike: what if we don't know what either of them are
01:55:15 <Bike> Fiora: you nerd
01:55:28 <Bike> (you've probably heard both of them at some point though)
01:55:38 <pikhq> I don't know Runaway.
01:55:40 <shachaf> Bike: have you considered that that's pretty rude to say all the time
01:55:44 <pikhq> Definitely know Satisfaction though.
01:55:53 <Bike> pikhq: "Let's have a toast to the douchebags"
01:56:01 <Fiora> wikipedia finds like 15 songs called runaway
01:56:06 <kmc> i like a fair amount of music that was recoded decades before my birth
01:56:07 <Fiora> I guess satisfaction is the rolling stones one?
01:56:15 <pikhq> That'd be the one, Fiora.
01:56:24 <Fiora> runaway is... a ... del shannon song?
01:57:21 <shachaf> As they say, "a good composer is a dead composer"
01:57:32 <kmc> a decomposer
01:58:14 <Bike> i was just making a joke about old people not liking rap
01:58:17 <Bike> can't say that went well tbh
01:58:43 <zzo38> What if you think both or neither of them is "real music"?
01:58:58 <Bike> You're a lich, I guess
01:59:41 <Bike> or maybe whatever Fiora is
02:00:09 <Phantom_Hoover> pretty sure old people wouldn't be fond of satisfaction either
02:01:47 * kmc listens to Runaway
02:02:10 <tswett> zzo38: what's this game that has 74-gun ships and whatnot?
02:02:43 <zzo38> tswett: Ship Of The Line, on the X-BIT BBS.
02:03:17 <tswett> Fiora: you're probably a human.
02:04:29 <Fiora> I don't think so...
02:04:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
02:05:16 <kmc> yeah these are both 'real music'
02:05:31 <kmc> KMC HAS SPOKEN
02:05:35 <Fiora> um, I mean, I don't think I'm a lich.
02:05:46 <Bike> well, guess kmc is a fiora
02:05:48 <shachaf> Fiora: Have you double-checked?
02:06:08 * Fiora looks down, glances under her sleeves and at her hands
02:06:11 <Bike> liches stay the same age forever
02:06:13 <Bike> think about it!
02:06:23 * Fiora sees soft and warm "skin" that looks pretty alive
02:06:40 <shachaf> "alive" is just another word for "aging"
02:06:49 <Fiora> are you calling me old
02:06:54 <kmc> this is getting p. creepy
02:06:58 <shachaf> imo give it serious consideration hth
02:07:04 <shachaf> Fiora: you're older than you were this morning
02:07:27 <shachaf> there's a song about that..............
02:07:52 <kmc> shachaf: am i right to conclude that this person in ##crypto is doing something shady AND will probably fuck up the crypto if left to their own devices
02:07:57 <kmc> so i should stop helpying them
02:08:37 <zzo38> Am I calling you old?
02:08:54 <Fiora> I am pretty sure I'm not a lich though staying the same age forever would be pretty nice
02:09:15 <shachaf> kmc: I'm not sure whether what they're doing is shady, but I doubt they'll get their cryptography thing right no matter what.
02:09:26 <shachaf> Mostly because they seem to be trying to do something impossible?
02:09:31 <Bike> what is their cryptography thing
02:09:34 <Bike> i like impossible somethings
02:09:45 <shachaf> Fiora: have you considered lichification
02:09:53 <Fiora> I don't really know how to do that :/
02:10:00 <Fiora> I also kind of like being alive at least somewhat
02:10:00 <zzo38> Staying the same age forever would be pretty stupid.
02:10:32 <shachaf> Have you ever tried any of the alternatives?
02:10:42 <Fiora> I don't think any of them let you go back
02:10:48 <tswett> Imo if you did that, you would only exist for a single instant hth.
02:11:01 <shachaf> resurrection? reïncarnation? etc
02:11:11 <Fiora> a-anyways um I don't think this is really a comfortable subject but
02:12:52 <shachaf> hey why aren't you in ##fiora "the good channel for fiora discussions"
02:13:04 <Fiora> because nobody ever really talked there or anything...
02:13:42 <oerjan> obviously they only talk when you aren't there hth
02:13:58 <Bike> shachaf: oh, by the way, did you hear about summa technologica coming out in english.
02:14:11 <Bike> god i hate latin
02:14:14 <oerjan> gimme summa that technologica
02:17:48 <Bike> shachaf: http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/the-art-of-conjecturing/
02:27:31 <Bike> I have "Runaway" stuck in my head now.
02:30:00 <shachaf> kmc: did you read _The Door Into Summer_
02:30:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
02:33:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre.
02:34:37 <zzo38> I thought of something, if you have a logic which you add another symbol and a rule to introduce it: ${}\vdash x\over{}\vdash\natural x$ where x is any single formula. Is there such things?
02:35:06 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: imo which books
02:35:25 <Phantom_Hoover> start with player of games, read use of weapons after that
02:35:38 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: imo i'll give you my address and you can mail me a book and i'll read it hth
02:39:04 <zzo38> How much will the postage cost?
02:39:12 <zzo38> Also, how much will the book cost?
02:40:23 <shachaf> I could send Phantom_Hoover a book in exchange if he wants.
02:40:40 <Phantom_Hoover> i know better than to trust you with my address shachaf
02:43:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:46:06 <kmc> shachaf: i didn't
02:46:31 <Bike> @ask phantom_hoover why not just lie about your return address
02:46:50 <Bike> it's like he's never even mailed antrhax bombs before, honestly
02:50:17 <oerjan> he prefers bricks afaiu
03:02:12 <tswett> A terminal object is an initial object in the opposite category hth. I'm in #tswett and I have been nearly continuously for two months.
03:02:55 <shachaf> kmc knows all about terminal objects
03:13:38 <kmc> or should i say v.v
03:17:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
03:26:11 <kmc> shachaf: hey your city has the fancy gunshot location system doesn't it
03:26:29 <shachaf> i heard a gunshot outside the other day
03:26:44 <shachaf> i don't know about a system, though
03:26:47 <kmc> yeah i think http://www.shotspotter.com/ was developed in Menlo Park and deployed in EPA
03:26:52 <kmc> one of the first deployments I mean
03:26:57 <kmc> shachaf: do you know where it came from
03:27:34 <zzo38> What happens if you have both pull-up resistor and pull-down resistor on the same thing?
03:29:14 <kmc> you waste energy
03:29:58 <shachaf> wow that's pretty rude kmc
03:30:01 <zzo38> Yes, I would certainly think so, but what would be the logical result?
03:30:40 <kmc> if you have +5V -/\/Ra\/\- input pin -/\/Rb\/\- GND then the voltage at the input pin is 5 * (Ra / Rb)
03:31:11 <Bike> wow, i've found something that looks worse linearly than math.
03:31:14 <kmc> each logic family (e.g. TTL, CMOS) specifies a range of valid input voltages for a 0 and another range for 1
03:31:32 <kmc> if the input pin voltage falls outside both of those ranges then it's Undefined Behavior
03:31:44 <zzo38> O, so it depends on the logic family of electronics.
03:31:56 <kmc> yes, and the size of the resistors involved
03:32:04 <kmc> where by 'size' i mean 'resistance'
03:33:56 <Bike> well the actual analog behavior is well defined innit
03:34:23 <zzo38> The analog behavior is the calculation like 5 * (Ra / Rb) and so on I guess
03:34:49 <Bike> who needs logic when you have electrodynamics
03:34:55 <zzo38> If this is the calculation then it must be 5 if it is equal, I guess.
03:35:50 <zzo38> But, maybe there won't be enough current or enough power or impedance or whatever? Are those necessary too?
03:36:41 <Bike> isn't that just two resistors in series? that can't be very taxing.
03:45:39 <kmc> for resistors, impedance and resistance are the same thing
03:46:03 <kmc> as for current, you need very little current to shove a CMOS input around. other logic families may vary
03:46:16 <kmc> i'm too young and too shitty an EE to know anything about other logic families ;P
03:47:39 <Bike> man AC circuitry is way hard isn't it
03:47:50 <Bike> fckin complex arithmetic
03:47:59 <kmc> complex arithmetic ain't shit
03:48:08 <Bike> quaternions 4 lyfe
03:55:08 <kmc> fucjk i can't even tell you how a transistor works
03:58:09 <Bike> the guy who invented them got /two/ nobel prizes i think i'ts ok if you're not on that level dude
03:58:21 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
03:58:35 <kmc> who shockley?
03:59:05 <kmc> oh that guy
03:59:09 <kmc> good for him
03:59:11 <zzo38> My electronics teacher in school once tried to explain how a transistor works, but didn't do a very good job of that or of most other things. Some of the students weren't very good at it either. The teacher once said the simplest atom is the water atom, and had a schematic for blinking lights, which was wrong in a few ways.
03:59:11 <Bike> "the balding guy"
03:59:21 <kmc> shockley was an asshole anyway
03:59:32 <Bike> lol eugenics advocate huh
04:00:05 <zzo38> There was an extra wire, and the transistors were labeled T1 and T2; I told him they should be Q1 and Q2 but he didn't believe me. I built it as it was, and mine didn't work even though the other students had it working. And then, I realized that the schematic was wrong so I had to cut one of the traces, and then it worked.
04:00:43 <Bike> i read a nice book debunking a lot of racist stuff the other day
04:00:51 <Bike> and eugenics i guess
04:01:00 <Bike> published 1911 "very influential"
04:01:29 <kmc> do they claim that eugenics doesn't work
04:01:31 <kmc> or just that it's bad
04:01:40 <Bike> that it doesn't work
04:01:43 <zzo38> The teacher gave us resistors from some container with various resistors. Some of us had resistors with five or six bands, and he told us to discard them because they were diodes and not resistors.
04:02:17 <Bike> the main comparison i remember that i thought was interesting was that when you compare it to livestock breeding, the major difference is that livestock are bred not only to have traits but also to have those traits breed true
04:02:28 <Bike> which is not true in human populations except for very weird situations
04:02:44 <zzo38> What kind of very weird situations?
04:02:48 <kmc> interesting
04:04:09 <Bike> zzo38: the example given was some german (maybe? i forget) population that was "bred" for being spearmen and they got taller over time, or something likee that
04:04:46 <Bike> there's also all the problems about heritability of intelligence, i guess, but IQ stuff wasn't very well developed in 1911 anyway
04:05:05 <Bike> i haven't read Mismeasure of Man but i'd probably recommend that on that topic
04:05:46 <Bike> it's certainly not as simple as "kids born to smart parents are guaranteed to be smart" or the same with s/smart/dumb/
04:05:49 <zzo38> I suppose if they want to do that they can, but they should only do it voluntarily. If you do not want to be bred then you shouldn't. Also, it is more complicated than just that; a lot of these traits aren't done like this anyways.
04:06:04 <Bike> not even remotely, no
04:06:23 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined.
04:06:31 <Bike> another thing that was very interesting was detailed information on morphological racial differences, which i'd never seen before
04:06:37 <zzo38> Some people may have thought it does but really a lot of it isn't.
04:06:50 <Bike> people from Tuscany have this average and mean height, while people from Rome have this (different!) average and mean
04:07:05 <pikhq> Eh, IQ was only really intended as a diagnostic tool for certain sorts of mental deficits anyways.
04:07:08 <Bike> er, average and std. deviation.
04:07:41 <zzo38> pikhq: Well, yes, IQ works to do that, at least. Not everything else they call IQ.
04:07:51 <Bike> I also found out that native Australians are pretty distant phylogenically from other non-African populations, which I didn't know
04:08:06 <pikhq> i.e. it only even functions within its design to detect disability...
04:08:13 <pikhq> zzo38: Aye. People are idiots.
04:08:24 <Bike> but /how idiotic/ i need numbers pikhq!
04:08:35 <Fiora> Bike: I guess that would sort of imply they came over when there was a land bridge or something and evolved for a (relatively speaking) long period without mixing?
04:09:03 <Bike> a land bridge to australia? not /that/ long ago, good god
04:09:20 <Fiora> wasn't there one during the ice age?
04:09:22 <Bike> but yeah, relatively early migrants from africa
04:09:32 <Fiora> because of the lower sea levels
04:09:35 <zzo38> I define IQ as whatever your score would be on an ideal IQ test (which cannot actually exist), where 100 is average.
04:09:41 <Bike> oh, like zealandia
04:09:45 <zzo38> It isn't the same as intelligence even though there is somewhat related.
04:09:56 <Fiora> http://www.planetaryvisions.com/thumbs_new/2226_ban.jpg
04:10:08 <Bike> i thought you meant like when australia and antarctica were connected, lol
04:10:24 <Fiora> ohhhh no not that XD
04:10:26 <Fiora> australia and asia
04:10:32 <Bike> whoa shit, i didn't know indonesia was that shallow.
04:11:49 <Bike> related but not really: malagasy is an austronesian language that is the craziest shit
04:12:51 <Bike> «It is believed that first human migration to Australia was achieved when this landmass formed part of the Sahul continent, connected to the island of New Guinea via a land bridge. It is also possible that people came by boat across the Timor Sea. The exact timing of the arrival of the ancestors of the Indigenous Australians has been a matter of dispute among archaeologists. The most generally accepted date for first arrival is between 40 00
04:13:15 <Bike> so i guess you're right fiora. have you considered a career in paleoanthropology
04:20:13 <Fiora> um... I don't think so
04:20:47 <Bike> shame, i think you've got the knack
04:21:06 <Fiora> I was just guessing
04:25:14 <Bike> http://www.www.extra-www.org/
04:31:26 <pikhq> example.com resolves.
04:44:03 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/f5a1ce60a792a7ea198f55b208f2be57/tumblr_moes1iBMYN1r59os8o1_400.jpg the new animal ccrossing game has latex support, supposedly
04:45:51 <Bike> i look forward to seeing advances in HoTT made by cute animal things
04:47:50 <Bike> homotopy type theory
04:48:00 <Bike> a thing some people in here like that i have no idea about
04:50:32 -!- mnoqy has joined.
04:50:39 <kmc> main :: IQ ()
05:12:15 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
05:25:21 <kmc> crickets chirp
05:46:40 <kmc> main ist keine Funktion
05:47:11 <kmc> TikZ ist kein Zeichenprogramm
05:54:09 <shachaf> kmc: since bloom filters usually don't use cryptographic hash functions are there situations where you can attack them in interesting ways
05:54:14 <shachaf> what are they used for anyway
05:56:02 <kmc> the main application I know of is reducing the number of misses on an expensive cache
05:57:10 <kmc> whatever sort
05:57:12 <kmc> caches anywhere
05:57:22 <kmc> or any kind of lookup data structure, doesn't have to be a cache
05:57:44 <kmc> when i interviewed at Mozilla we talked about using Bloom filters to speed up the matching of elements to CSS rules
06:00:46 -!- partyb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
06:01:05 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
06:09:12 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:49:37 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:00:06 -!- Lymia has joined.
07:23:35 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
07:28:22 -!- Taneb has joined.
07:30:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
07:44:13 <kmc> @nietzsche_ebooks
07:45:56 <kmc> oh my resistor equation before was wrong
07:46:26 <kmc> i said 5 * (Ra / Rb) meaning the voltage is 5 for equal resistors, but it should be 2.5
07:46:37 -!- ais523 has joined.
07:47:32 <kmc> point is the 5V drop is split between the two resistors linearly according to their resistances
07:49:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
07:53:25 <olsner> hmm, I dreamt about greeting people
07:56:01 -!- nooga_ has joined.
08:17:43 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:54:23 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:13:31 -!- nooodl has joined.
09:23:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
09:52:34 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy).
10:01:42 -!- ais523 has quit.
10:21:26 -!- Lymia has joined.
10:31:22 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
10:36:49 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
11:07:16 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:17:09 <shachaf> @tell ais523 GHC actually goes to a lot of trouble to uncurry functions for efficiency (passing multiple arguments at once in registers and so on). Functions in Haskell work the way they do for user convenience much more than compiler convenience.
11:35:37 <FreeFull> GHC does a lot work to optimise code
12:18:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:19:25 -!- conehead has joined.
12:56:51 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
13:14:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
13:26:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:26:36 -!- augur has joined.
13:30:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:34:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
13:37:52 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:58:59 -!- augur has joined.
14:03:58 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
14:08:05 -!- itsy has joined.
14:23:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
14:36:01 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Gregor.
14:42:17 <hagb4rd> what do you neeed that fot
14:45:32 <hagb4rd> yea.. i would sing for you all night
14:47:58 <Taneb> Is this... is this something you want to talk about?
14:49:08 <hagb4rd> no, i want to blame kmc and gregor for their lack of integrity
14:50:02 <Taneb> I don't think either kmc or Gregor make a habit of disintegrating boobs?
14:50:22 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
14:52:57 <Taneb> A somewhat obtuse one, I apologize
14:53:19 <hagb4rd> no, not you're cool attriq
14:53:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v hagb4rd.
14:53:46 <hagb4rd> i mean why do they expose admin state?
14:53:53 -!- hagb4rd has left.
14:53:56 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
14:53:59 -!- mnoqy has joined.
14:53:59 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v hagb4rd.
14:54:05 <Taneb> Boobs expose admin state?
14:54:08 <elliott> looks like it's your destiny
14:54:40 <elliott> just like the good old days
14:54:46 <elliott> too bad shachaf isn't here eh
14:55:14 <Fiora> does this mean I get op? :o
14:55:46 <Fiora> um, yes, I guess I do?
14:56:52 <Fiora> what does that mean...?
14:56:52 -!- nooga_ has joined.
14:56:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v hagb4rd.
14:57:08 <elliott> it means he doesn't get voice any more
14:57:28 <hagb4rd> who cares about voice while having boobs
14:57:43 <elliott> are you drunk or something
14:57:43 <hagb4rd> i see you just don't understand :/
14:57:54 <elliott> i mean you always sound like you're drunk, but...
14:59:16 <hagb4rd> we have to work on your soft skills
14:59:37 <Taneb> Is quilting a soft skill
15:00:24 <mnoqy> quilting, knitting, embroidery
15:01:02 <Fiora> what exactly does voice do...?
15:01:15 <elliott> nothing unless the channel is +m
15:01:24 <elliott> oh maybe it cancels out +q too?
15:01:25 <Fiora> so him getting/notgetting voice doesn't... actually mean anything
15:01:44 <elliott> it's a figurehead position! like the queen
15:01:52 <Taneb> I kicked kmc because he was a bear
15:04:24 <HackEgo> 600) <ais523> Vorpal: I was paying too much attention to elliott and not enough to my HP \ 1005) <Taneb> I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention
15:19:56 <hagb4rd> great creepy m83 rmx by Trentemøller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfyT56_kmTE ..enjoy
15:23:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
15:23:37 -!- Bike has joined.
15:26:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
15:30:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:31:32 <hagb4rd> talking about soft skills.. do you know DISCO? http://disco-tools.eu/disco2_portal/terms.php
15:32:41 <Bike> i'm pretty good at disco dancing
15:33:30 <hagb4rd> it may help while creating profiles, CV.. especially on the global market
15:50:01 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:50:17 -!- Frooxius has joined.
16:02:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
16:11:40 -!- muslim3arby has joined.
16:12:34 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy).
16:12:38 -!- muslim3arby has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))).
16:13:17 <hagb4rd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7tt3ULj8Xg
16:13:39 * hagb4rd sets mode to *screensaver*
16:17:35 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
16:18:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:18:31 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
16:32:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
16:34:13 -!- heroux has joined.
16:35:36 <Sgeo> When did Magnatune turn evil?
16:36:06 <Bike> three thousand moons ago, on the Day of Darkness
16:36:54 <Sgeo> Used to be able to listen to the music ad-free online
16:37:02 <Sgeo> Used to be able to buy individual songs
16:37:31 <Sgeo> There's at least one album that relied on that
16:37:41 <Sgeo> (On not having ads in the middle of each track)
16:45:18 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: abandoning elliott, wish me luck~).
17:22:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: do you want to see me fuck around with lambdabot
17:24:52 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
17:30:06 <Taneb> What would be the best way to prove that 9 is more than 4
17:31:34 <elliott> 9 = S (S (S (S (S (S (S (S (S 0)))))))))
17:32:32 <elliott> forall n, n <= n; forall m n, m <= n -> m <= S n
17:33:33 <HackEgo> Thanks, elliott. Thelliott.
17:33:44 <elliott> eagerly awaiting your proof
17:37:37 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:41:54 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, your equation for the voltage looked wrong to me too
17:44:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: er, yes I did?
17:44:28 <zzo38> TNT has no < and > so it is defined in terms of what it does have. TNT doesn't have <= either.
17:44:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: perhaps my use of = confuses you
17:44:41 <elliott> it was intended as a definitional
17:46:25 <zzo38> a < b : exists c. a + S c = b
17:48:57 <Taneb> elliott, does http://hpaste.org/89968 look right?
17:49:09 <Taneb> I am unsure how to format this kind of proof
17:50:19 <elliott> Taneb: you probably need explicit quantification for the cases of each proposition, given that you say "n <= m" but then give a case for "n <= S m"
17:50:40 <elliott> i also recommend using digits throughout since the nested Ses is ugly :P
17:50:57 <elliott> but sure, looks right to me
17:57:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:02:02 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, finished season 1
18:32:23 -!- itsy has joined.
18:48:47 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, finished first ep of season 2
18:48:56 <Sgeo> Should go out to get a haircut soon
18:49:05 <Sgeo> Haven't had a haircut in about 9 months
18:49:33 <kmc> that's so crazy it might work
18:50:24 <kmc> the next time i get my hair cut well I need to take a picture and keep it on my phone so that at subsequent haircuts I can just be like "DO THIS"
18:50:52 <kmc> i'm not good at describing how i want my hair cut, but i'm not very picky either
18:51:02 <Sgeo> Did that and also had the person write down what they did
18:51:09 <elliott> hair cuts are for losers, hope this helps
18:54:05 <zzo38> I have made a sequent calculus for Turing machines; can a sequent calculus be made for sokoban, and for chess, etc?
18:54:59 <kmc> i assume so
18:55:44 <kmc> you should make a sequent calculus for sequent calculii
18:56:13 <elliott> kmc having voice is so reassuring
18:56:38 <zzo38> kmc: Do you know how to make a sequent calculus for sequent calculii?
18:57:15 <kmc> elliott: in these days of crisis it's important to have a strong leader
18:57:31 <kmc> i promise to give up my emergency powers as soon as the crisis is over
18:57:49 <myname> something to read to really understand monads?
18:58:10 <kmc> you mean in the context of Haskell?
18:58:30 <kmc> do you http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ#The_M-word
18:58:36 <zzo38> I understand it by understanding category theory a little bit and seeing how it is related to Haskell.
18:58:39 <kmc> er scratch the first two words of that
18:58:41 <kmc> just read my link
18:59:23 <kmc> that's less an explanation of monads and more an attempt to debunk various myths
18:59:38 <kmc> but I think the myths and misunderstanding are usually the big obstacle
18:59:49 <kmc> in the end Monad is just the name of a pretty simple typeclass in the standard library
19:00:02 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, that is mainly it.
19:00:12 <kmc> http://monads.haskell.cz/html/index.html has some examples of different standard monads and what they can be used for
19:00:30 <kmc> so do the later chapters of http://learnyouahaskell.com/chapters
19:00:40 <elliott> kmc: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/All_About_Monads is canonical link i believe
19:06:16 <myname> I heard monads are like burritos or space suits full of nuclear waste. Is that true?
19:06:49 <zzo38> myname: I don't think so.
19:07:33 <kmc> i wrote that FAQ and i think a bit of my frustration with haskell myths shows through :3
19:07:44 <zzo38> Maybe it helps some people, to understand it like that. I find to understand the mathematics of it, helps a bit more than those kind of things. However, best is to see that, it is one class used for common operations of some types in Haskell.
19:08:20 <elliott> These analogies are not helpful. See "Abstraction, intuition, and the 'monad tutorial fallacy"'.
19:08:41 <kmc> wonder if i can blame pandoc somehow
19:09:01 <elliott> going to end kmc's career with this juicy mistake
19:09:09 <elliott> nobody will ever trust him again!!
19:11:26 <elliott> he might even lose his voice
19:11:46 <myname> zzo38: well, yeah, i'd prefer understanding the mathematics
19:12:30 -!- nooodl has joined.
19:12:34 <kmc> the special connection between mathematics and Haskell is overrated
19:13:01 <myname> one thing i like about haskell is this
19:13:02 <elliott> kmc: disagree. the idea that it is scary and mysterious and complicated is overrated
19:13:04 <zzo38> myname: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(category_theory)
19:13:07 <elliott> but the connection is strong
19:13:23 <kmc> it gets played up a lot both by detractors who want an excuse not to learn Haskell, and by excited newbies who don't know what they're talking about
19:13:27 <zzo38> myname: After you read it, you can follow the link at the top of the article for more description of how it is related to computer programming.
19:13:58 <kmc> note i said 'special connection', programming in general is deeply connected to maths, but the idea that you need some huge maths knowledge to use Haskell that isn't necessary for other languages is ridiculous
19:14:20 <kmc> you do need to learn new /concepts/ for Haskell but they aren't really more or less "mathematical" than other programming language concepts
19:14:28 <zzo38> You don't need some huge maths knowledge to use Haskell but it can help to understand it.
19:14:34 <elliott> (and I worry that mathematics in general, and the mathematics that is relevant to Haskell specifically, has its reputation harmed by being quick to decry the idea that haskell is "mathy", because it often comes out like "you don't need to know about weird category theory category morphism cococofunctors!!!!", which is just an insult to CT)
19:14:43 <kmc> there are a lot of cool connections if you want to go looking for them
19:15:00 <kmc> doesn't mean you need them to get shit done
19:15:07 <zzo38> This mathematical stuff is what I like about Haskell programming
19:15:15 <elliott> (and generally feeds antiintellectualism in programmer culture: someone says "haskell is scary because of the maths" and your response is "don't worry, it's not scary, no maths here" -- implicitly accepting that "maths" is a reason something can be scary!)
19:15:17 <kmc> different people like different things about Haskell
19:15:28 <kmc> elliott: fair points
19:16:03 <kmc> still I want to go after the idea that you need to "understand category theory" or even "understand monads" (with a small m) to use Haskell
19:16:38 <elliott> I think of it more like: you can learn Haskell, and you'll be learning mathematics, because Haskell has a deep connection to mathematics and exposes you to a lot of it, whether you realise it or not. it's not additional work you have to perform to "understand Haskell", rather it's additional gain you get out of learning Haskell
19:16:49 <elliott> this isn't to say that learning Haskell maeks you a CT whiz or whatever
19:17:06 <elliott> the connections aren't as simplistic as that
19:17:26 <elliott> kmc: i agree it's an important fight
19:17:31 <zzo38> Well, of course you don't need to understand; actually you don't even need to understand the Monad type class except for a little bit which is how it is used with IO monad.
19:17:35 <elliott> just wish the weapons used were less heavy-handed
19:17:55 <kmc> Haskell community also makes a lot of claims that don't pan out, e.g. "We can prove things in the type system! Curry-Howard!" "but isn't every type inhabited by ⊥"
19:18:18 <kmc> "Haskell is a great language for static analysis!" "name one static analyzer besides the GHC typechecker"
19:18:42 <kmc> C is a shit language for static analysis but there are loads of static analyzers for C because it's industrially important
19:18:42 <elliott> (fwiw, I haven't seen anyone talk about proving things except from a newbie-asking-a-question POV, but may be sample error)
19:18:57 <elliott> kmc: "haskell is a great language for mental analysis" :)
19:22:03 <kmc> but you know, engineering effort is trivial, so the fact that someone *could* write a static analyzer for Haskell is just as good as the dozens of existing static analyzers for other languages
19:23:32 <kmc> that's a #haskell thing for sure
19:24:03 <kmc> i remember someone was talking about being tied to the JVM and the answer was like "you're an idiot for using the JVM, just write a custom compiler from all your JVM code to Haskell and get it working on your MLoC codebase on every platform"
19:24:50 <Sgeo> kmc, I guess other languages that would be good with static analysis, like Racket, that doesn't mean that that's a good reason to go with that approach to metaprogramming if no one is going to build tools for it...
19:25:01 <Sgeo> Although actually, I guess Typed Racket counts
19:25:17 <kmc> the Haskell tooling situation is kind of disappointing
19:25:28 <kmc> the fact that the only declarative debugger is bitrotted :/
19:26:20 <elliott> kmc: i think #haskell's problems are more mundane these days, at least :)
19:26:32 <kmc> well done new #haskell mods
19:26:33 <elliott> (not necessarily a good thing :P)
19:26:39 <kmc> what are the new problems
19:27:07 <myname> category theory is strange
19:27:07 <elliott> mostly noise and outright trolling, I'd say
19:27:17 <elliott> though the stereo and bad answes are still there
19:27:32 <elliott> it just feels like the bad answers are more boring now :P
19:28:31 <elliott> I just mean that the number of specific weird memes that people parrot seems to be decreasing
19:28:36 <elliott> perhaps inevitably as the channel grows bigger
19:28:42 <kmc> how big is it now
19:28:50 <kmc> i don't understand
19:29:19 <elliott> anyway, it might just be that less popular weird memes die out and other ones grow stronger, rather than an absolute decrease in the number of weird-meme-parrotting
19:29:30 <kmc> why does a strange language that not very many people actually use have such a huge number of IRC lurkers
19:29:53 <elliott> well, commercial haskell is getting more prominent, I think. especially with e.g. FP Complete and stuff now
19:30:14 <elliott> kmc: and also, Haskell has quite a strong presence in university courses
19:30:22 <elliott> and a lot of people join for that kind of thing
19:30:32 <elliott> (sometimes in a blatantly "do my homework" for me sense)
19:31:07 <kmc> most people in the channel never talk though
19:31:15 <kmc> and i think most people who show up to ask a specific question don't hang around
19:31:46 <kmc> not sure though
19:34:32 <kmc> some of the things I complain about might just be things that happened once and really pissed me off
19:34:35 <kmc> rather than recurring patterns
19:34:42 <kmc> some of them are definitely recurring patterns though
19:34:54 <elliott> you should join to refine your sample!!
19:35:42 -!- Koen_ has joined.
19:38:16 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
19:38:34 <nooodl> i should really sit down and figure out how that statement is true one day...
19:38:45 <Koen_> nid wyf yn y swyddfa? that sounds similar to the "pleidol wyf i'm gwlad" from british one-pound coins
19:38:51 <HackEgo> Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories.
19:38:59 <elliott> nooodl: it's pretty simple
19:39:05 <kmc> it's more correct to say they're monoid *objects*, no?
19:39:21 <nooodl> i'm guessing the binary op. is >=>?
19:39:24 <kmc> eh wikipedia says they're synonyms
19:39:41 <elliott> people relate the `? monad quip with (>=>) forming a monoid with return all the time
19:39:56 <elliott> you need to generalise your notion of "monoid"
19:40:08 <elliott> the kind of "monoid" being used here is one that exists "in a monoidal category"
19:40:22 <elliott> rather than just a value and a function in Set
20:02:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?").
20:13:12 <Phantom_Hoover> nooodl, it's like, return :: a -> (m a) is in a sense the identity element
20:13:39 <Phantom_Hoover> and join :: (m (m a)) -> (m a) is the monoid operation
20:14:17 <zzo38> return is the family of identity morphisms of the Kleisli category.
20:14:39 <nooodl> maybe i should look up what a monoidal category
20:14:52 <zzo38> The composition is (<=<)
20:15:42 <zzo38> Yes, that part forms a monoid, too
20:17:00 <nooodl> ooh! http://stackoverflow.com/a/3870310 this explains it pretty well
20:17:13 <nooodl> "...with product × replaced by composition of endofunctors" <-- like, this is pretty crucial
20:17:57 <shachaf> Note that product in a monoid is also called composition.
20:18:22 <elliott> I like how the answer below that is incredibly awful
20:18:24 <shachaf> It's just in a different category.
20:18:32 <elliott> anyway, http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/11/from-monoids-to-monads.html
20:19:15 <nooodl> elliott: i like how it doesn't even mention the word "endofunctor"
20:19:50 <shachaf> I like how it has 81 points and a lot of people talking about how great it is.
20:27:19 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: He defines it in that article.
20:27:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it's defined later
20:28:13 <shachaf> do you think you're better than us
20:28:22 <kmc> i don't remember why
20:29:18 <elliott> kmc got drunk and the next thing he knew he woke up voiced
20:29:24 <elliott> or should i say he got drugz #drugz
20:29:27 <kmc> 02:36 <+ion> A number of channels use +v as the idiot flag.
20:29:59 <elliott> (the joke is me and shachaf are +v in #haskell-ops, hth)
20:30:14 <shachaf> the joke is that ops are +v in #haskell-ops
20:30:42 -!- sprocklem has joined.
20:32:21 <kmc> ops reinvented
20:32:51 <Phantom_Hoover> ops that respect craftsmanship (am i doing this right)
20:33:11 <nooodl> #haskell-ops #haskell-ops
20:33:21 <kmc> respect isn't enough you have to celebrate craftsmanship
20:33:22 <nooodl> do these both look bold elliott
20:34:58 <elliott> shachaf: wow did you see what Phantom_Hoover did........
20:35:24 <shachaf> what did Phantom_Hoover did
20:35:28 <elliott> 21:30:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486] has joined #haskell-ops
20:35:31 <elliott> 21:30:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486] has left #haskell-ops ["Leaving"]
20:35:43 <kmc> all blinking text has the same frequency and phase, right
20:36:02 <elliott> shachaf: next Sgeo will join..............
20:36:51 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
20:37:02 <Sgeo> I didn't notice until you pinged me
20:37:12 <Sgeo> I did see the topic though
20:37:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: you should stop doing that immediately.
20:38:00 <elliott> i assign copumpkin to ban you all
20:38:17 <kmc> hagb4rd had voice too
20:38:33 <shachaf> elliott: being in -ops when you're not an op is such a terrible offense................
20:38:47 <elliott> imo it should be criminalised
20:38:53 <shachaf> the joke is that elliott did it for months
20:42:25 <elliott> Sgeo: (btw the "what is wrong with you" wasn't due to the delay in joining it was due to the joining)
20:42:32 <elliott> (i didn't notice your response until now)
20:43:20 <kmc> sda sda1 sdb sdb1 sdc sdc1 sdd sdd1 sde sde1 sdf sdf1 sdg sdg1 sdh sdh1 sdi sdi1 sdj sdj1 sdk sdk1 sdl sdl1 sdm sdm1 sdn sdn1 sdo sdo1 sdp sdp1
20:43:21 <Sgeo> Well, at least I left
20:43:29 <shachaf> kmc: does your +v in this channel mean you're an op
20:43:37 <kmc> in what channel
20:43:46 <shachaf> kmc: you gotta tell me if you're an op
20:43:47 <kmc> probably not
20:43:57 <kmc> `addquote <shachaf> kmc: you gotta tell me if you're an op
20:44:01 <HackEgo> 1053) <shachaf> kmc: you gotta tell me if you're an op
20:45:21 <Fiora> hagb4rd totally told me earlier that I should get op
20:45:59 <shachaf> Fiora: Come on. What kind of op would you be?
20:46:07 <shachaf> Ops need to rule with an iron fist!
20:46:13 <elliott> i think that is an impressively charitable interpretation of hagb4rd
20:46:30 <fizzie> The bronze fist does 9999 damage on criticals.
20:46:38 <Fiora> shachaf: admittedly I don't think I'd do anything
20:46:42 <fizzie> You get it on level 96.
20:46:56 <Fiora> elliott: what's a less charitable interpretation?
20:47:30 <shachaf> hmm good hagb4rd in th logs
20:47:53 <elliott> well, I admit I never have almost any idea what hagb4rd is trying to say.
20:48:00 <zzo38> Iron fist? Bronze fist? Maybe you can use a paper fist.
20:48:05 <Fiora> oh -_- so he's like shachaf
20:48:16 <shachaf> zzo38: No, a fist is rock. A flat palm is paper.
20:48:27 <fizzie> The iron fist just randomly inflicts confuse.
20:48:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:48:49 <Fiora> I-I didn't mean that... I just meant that I can never underst-- sorry
20:49:23 <nooodl> underst-- this is a democracy shachaf
20:49:32 <kmc> Stoned. Ripped. Twisted. Good people.
20:49:34 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes. But maybe iron and broze fist is no good.
20:51:14 <fizzie> Also today in the bus there was someone with pink hair and cat ears and a painted-on-face grin; I think there's some sort of a "con" going on in this country.
20:51:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting).
20:51:31 <lambdabot> *** "con" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
20:51:31 <lambdabot> adv 1: in opposition to a proposition, opinion, etc.; "much was
20:51:31 <lambdabot> n 1: an argument opposed to a proposal [ant: {pro}]
20:51:49 <shachaf> fizzie: So you saw a con artist?
20:52:34 <fizzie> I... guess? (There were four of them, but that one was easiest to describe.)
20:55:29 <kmc> http://bash.org/?12431
20:55:51 -!- FreeFull has joined.
20:57:39 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, fun fact: Active Worlds has Peacekeepers
20:57:54 -!- dessos has joined.
21:00:18 <Sgeo> http://peacekeeper.net/
21:00:53 <shachaf> I don't think any fact relating to Active Worlds can really be called fun...
21:01:12 <elliott> `pastlog shachaf.*\|.*fact
21:01:13 <Sgeo> Even the fact that anyone can go in there and delete some historical property
21:01:24 <HackEgo> 2013-04-04.txt:03:23:55: <shachaf> | fact n = n * fact (n - 1)
21:01:26 <Sgeo> (Not sure if that's still the case going forward, but it has been the case for a long time)
21:01:55 <shachaf> elliott: Why didn't the other search find it?
21:02:56 <elliott> maybe it timed out or something
21:03:25 <shachaf> Don't timeouts get reported?
21:03:33 <shachaf> `run while true; do true; done
21:03:40 <Sgeo> http://activeworlds.com/products/citizenships.asp
21:03:46 <Sgeo> The page hasn't been updated, but the links are
21:04:06 <Sgeo> So clicking "SAVE! CLICK HERE for discounted annual online registration." tells you "Citizen Immigration is FREE."
21:04:57 <Sgeo> ...ok this page looks different from the rest of the site http://www.activeworlds.com/products/cancel.asp
21:05:04 <Phantom_Hoover> did you know that shamus young helped make activeworlds
21:05:04 <Sgeo> This was the old look of the website, hmm
21:05:16 <Phantom_Hoover> it's amazing how someone so cool could be involved in something so shitt
21:05:49 <Sgeo> I don't think I've heard the name Shamus Young outside of AW
21:11:52 <kmc> what's shit about AW
21:15:33 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone).
21:23:24 <fizzie> I've heard that name, but I have no recollection in which context.
21:25:59 -!- sprocklem has joined.
21:30:11 -!- mnoqy has joined.
21:44:55 -!- sacje has joined.
21:45:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:47:11 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:48:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:52:44 <shachaf> is the person in ##crypto saying bad and/or wrong things
21:56:00 <FreeFull> Huh, I didn't know about @pointful
21:56:20 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs: 1: 18:Parse error: EOF
21:56:38 <FreeFull> @pointful (+3) . (+4) . (+5) `ap` 4
21:56:38 <lambdabot> Plugin `pointful' failed with: Ambiguous infix expression
21:56:46 <FreeFull> @pointful ((+3) . (+4) . (+5)) `ap` 4
21:56:47 <lambdabot> (\ b -> (4 >>= \ j -> return ((\ f -> ((f + 5) + 4) + 3) b j)) b)
21:56:52 <fizzie> @unpl (+3) . (+4) . (+5)
21:57:00 <fizzie> Is unpl a different thing than pointful?
21:57:27 <fizzie> (". unpl pl" -- or the other way around -- is often a best.)
21:57:57 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:58:25 <fizzie> @. pl unpl ((+3) . (+4) . (+5)) `ap` 4 -- I'm going to get the same thing back, right?
21:58:28 <lambdabot> ap ((4 >>=) . (return .) . (+ 3) . flip ((+) . (+ 5)) 4) id
21:58:28 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
22:08:26 <zzo38> OK, I think I managed to make a sequent calculus for sokoban now.
22:10:01 <elliott> busy rewriting eval plugin instead
22:10:16 <zzo38> Sequent calculus for chess puzzles will be far more complicated; you will need to keep track of whose turn it is, and you will need to make the opponent's turn with all possible moves above the line instead of just one.
22:14:13 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/tex/sokoban_sequent.tex Please tell me if there is a mistake.
22:15:28 <Sgeo> If these are caffeine withdrawal headaches, why do they occur so late in the day
22:16:07 <zzo38> Sgeo: I don't know.
22:16:52 -!- augur has joined.
22:17:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:17:58 -!- augur has joined.
22:20:47 <zzo38> Is this sequent calculus for sokoban a correct implementation of the sokoban game?
22:21:07 <Lumpio-> I don't think anybody's listening
22:21:19 <zzo38> (Well, it is generalized; it allows other kinds of geometry than rectangular, and allows multiple player pieces)
22:34:49 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:37:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit).
22:40:30 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:41:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit).
22:52:18 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:07:02 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
23:10:18 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:20:11 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:20:14 -!- sprocklem has joined.
23:20:58 <hagb4rd> <elliott>i think that is an impressively charitable interpretation of hagb4rd <- charitable AND correct, btw.. that girl rulez! if i had to choose a pair for another renaissance in the matrix .. i'd choose fio and kmc! long may heir reign last and may some hard coconut fall on elliotts or hoovers head
23:22:19 <hagb4rd> if you by accident ever need a witness.. feel free to ask me.. i put my trust inya :P
23:22:41 <ais523> shachaf: I work with unusual model of logic all the time in the CS department: multiple arguments and tupling both have weird logical problems (mostly, there's two different plausible ways to implement them, and it's not clear which is meant), so currying simplifies things a lot there
23:23:33 <ais523> I had to check twice to make sure hagb4rd's line wasn't by fungot
23:23:34 <fungot> ais523: s/ syntax-case/ fnord/ fnord or is the gui stuffs in teach packs? is not just lambda calculus. the nutshell version of it. i use ion
23:23:37 <ais523> that's a mark o a good line right there :)
23:23:52 <ais523> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
23:23:53 <elliott> I find that applies to all of hagb4rd's lines
23:30:14 <Phantom_Hoover> hey hagb4rd were you the one who led itidus to this channel
23:30:40 <hagb4rd> you're repeating yourself so much poor hoovey
23:31:43 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o Phantom_Hoover.
23:32:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set channel mode: +b *!*@koln-4db420d6.pool.mediaWays.net.
23:32:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has kicked hagb4rd hagb4rd.
23:32:17 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o Phantom_Hoover.
23:32:29 <ais523> you can't keep the ban around, btw
23:32:33 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523.
23:32:38 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -b *!*@koln-4db420d6.pool.mediaWays.net.
23:32:41 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523.
23:32:47 <ais523> but it'll do him/her good to not be around for a while
23:33:06 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
23:33:07 <ais523> insulting channel regulars like that, out of nowhere, is not productive
23:36:32 <elliott> ais523: that was not a while
23:37:33 <hagb4rd> don't see why you get so tense again
23:38:07 <ais523> no, this isn't particularly fun, nor ontopic, nor useful
23:38:13 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
23:38:30 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*perdito@*.pool.mediaWays.net.
23:38:30 -!- elliott has kicked hagb4rd fuck off.
23:38:33 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
23:38:52 <ais523> I don't remember them being quite that bad last time
23:39:23 <ais523> btw, that's just based on behaviour since I've been here, I've heard there's worse in logs
23:39:29 <elliott> ais523: btw you're the best op until oerjan or fizzie overtakes you, hth
23:43:18 <Phantom_Hoover> the only differentiating factor i can think of is that this time he knows there's a woman in the channel
23:45:20 <ais523> somehow I'm still finding it hard to believe that there are people who still think the internet runs on "tits or gtfo"
23:46:27 <ais523> incidentally, #xkcd (not on this server, I forget where it is; foonetic?) actually has a rule against that specifically in the topic
23:46:56 <elliott> depressing that it'd be common enough to need putting in the topic
23:47:01 <ais523> I'm not sure if it actually happened enough that they felt they had to ban it, or if it was preemptive
23:49:18 <elliott> what's with this warp language
23:51:56 <ais523> I don't remember having heard of it
23:51:56 <mnoqy> is this on the wiki
23:52:07 <ais523> elliott: btw, I got two effective kicks in a few minutes there
23:52:19 <ais523> I went and kicked a spambot from #nethack just after the hagb4rd ban
23:52:30 <elliott> imo despot. impeach ais523
23:52:34 <elliott> mnoqy: http://esolangs.org/wiki/WARP
23:52:41 <mnoqy> elliott: ya im lookin at it now
23:52:58 <ais523> elliott: you can impeach me if you like, but then good luck relying on the other ops to be online :)
23:52:59 <elliott> ais523: oh btw i sent you a lambdabot message that you've probably read
23:53:48 <elliott> part of the New #esoteric Vernacular
23:54:36 <mnoqy> so far warp looks more interesting than most new languges on the wiki these days
23:54:51 <ais523> hmm, WARP reminds me of something I was planning to do myself, but doesn't
23:55:27 <ais523> like, doesn't do itself
23:58:57 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to jockstrap.