00:01:45 <Koen_> Sgeo: have you played that game ? ''other top games''? I hear it's good
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00:54:24 <Fiora> Bike: "In totally unrelated news, Quantum Computing Since Democritus made Scientific American’s list of best summer books! I can’t think of a more appropriate honor, since if there’s any phrase that captures what QCSD is all about, “sizzling summer beach read” would be it."
00:54:30 <Fiora> aaronson is really great XD
00:54:59 <Bike> cookin up search algorithms on the grill
00:56:29 <Fiora> I'm imagining a quantum computing romance now
00:56:35 <Fiora> like, romance novel
00:57:01 <Fiora> BQP wanted to union with BPP-path, but it was not to be
01:05:03 <Jafet> Disney cashes in with the film adaptation "Entangled"
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01:26:34 <coppro> hmm, I've come up with a conclusive proof why there will never be another stargate TV series
01:28:17 <coppro> the premiere of each series has dialed one extra chevron, but there are no more left
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01:42:22 <kmc> Bike: so I'm home now
01:42:29 <kmc> i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other
01:42:50 <Bike> hey, hey, i only said fisting, not mutual fisting
01:42:59 <kmc> ok fine jeez
01:42:59 <Bike> http://media.tumblr.com/ecf88e222a33b3c867f1eabaf09bd45b/tumblr_inline_mpog8gvrjo1r577c9.png here you go though
01:43:02 <kmc> way to get a guy's hopes up
01:43:17 <Bike> I guess you could also call it "trunking"
01:43:21 <Bike> if you hated yourself, i mean
01:43:50 <kmc> that picture is not really that sexy
01:47:46 <kmc> i'm just speaking for myself here
01:48:17 <elliott> `addquote <kmc> Bike: so I'm home now <kmc> i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other
01:48:21 <HackEgo> 1069) <kmc> Bike: so I'm home now <kmc> i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other
01:49:16 <HackEgo> 1068) <Bike> oh my, this is a photo of an elliott fisting [...] <Bike> i meant elephant <Bike> but you know what, ok. <kmc> Bike: ... <kmc> Bike: can you send me that picture when i'm not at work ok <kmc> plz and thx
01:51:46 <ion> For your enjoyment: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elephant+poop
01:53:19 <Gracenotes> I wonder if there is feta cheese about
01:53:24 <shachaf> ion: write me a limerick plz thx
01:54:53 <ion> http://youtu.be/6h5ZLo-GO9E http://youtu.be/A2y_LEbdEVE http://youtu.be/VbPdrqdXx0g
01:54:54 <lambdabot> *** "bout" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
01:54:54 <lambdabot> n 1: (sports) a division during which one team is on the
01:54:54 <lambdabot> offensive [syn: {turn}, {bout}, {round}]
01:54:54 <lambdabot> 2: a period of illness; "a bout of fever"; "a bout of
01:55:11 <shachaf> i bet that continues with «feta cheese"; »
01:55:12 <lambdabot> 3: a contest or fight (especially between boxers or wrestlers)
01:55:12 <lambdabot> 4: an occasion for excessive eating or drinking; "they went on a
01:55:12 <lambdabot> bust that lasted three days" [syn: {bust}, {tear}, {binge},
01:55:32 <shachaf> they went on a bout of feta cheese that lasted three days
01:56:10 <Jafet> A Boba Feta cheese
01:56:10 <shachaf> there is a cheese which is kind of like feta but not quite feta
01:56:20 <shachaf> it's called "bulgarian cheese" in hebrew
01:56:29 <shachaf> it is popular and delicious to eat it with watermelons
01:57:36 <kmc> woah I just started cooking a chicken tortilla thing with feta cheese
01:58:47 <shachaf> hmm i wonder whether you can find proper gvina bulgarit in san francisco
01:59:14 <shachaf> i think it is made from sheep's milk usually??
02:03:24 <Gracenotes> I'm really struggling here to finish a limerick with shachaf as the primary rhyme.
02:03:48 <shachaf> oerjan: what was the right window
02:03:54 <Bike> can you split words
02:03:59 <Bike> catch aff-irmative or something
02:04:07 <kmc> shachaf: we can check out http://www.yelp.com/biz/samiramis-imports-san-francisco-2
02:04:18 <kmc> "They carry the Jericho garlic spread, which permits me to have a Zankou Chicken-like garlic experience." ++++++++
02:04:21 <kmc> I miss Zankou
02:04:26 <kmc> Fiora: have you been to Zankou Chicken
02:05:51 <kmc> they exist in southern california
02:05:52 <Gracenotes> I might have written myself into a corner
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02:06:42 <shachaf> kmc: hm http://www.samiramisimport.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=122&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53
02:06:50 <shachaf> http://www.samiramisimport.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=123&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53
02:07:03 <kmc> looks good
02:07:56 <shachaf> maybe we can get watermelon too!!
02:08:17 <kmc> can't find hours on their site, Yelp says they'll be open until 20:00 on Saturday though
02:08:25 <kmc> shachaf: you can get watermelon anywhere >_<
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02:08:34 <kmc> there were a bunch of smashed watermelons at Church & Duboce
02:08:39 <kmc> this seems to happen a lot here
02:08:46 <shachaf> but you can't get watermelon & bulgarian cheese anywhere
02:08:52 <kmc> people drop or throw a full bag of groceries from a third story window (??)
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02:08:58 <shachaf> anyway i didn't mean at that place i meant in general
02:08:59 <kmc> is "watermelon & bulgarian cheese" a traditional dish
02:10:07 <shachaf> https://encrypted.google.com/images?q=אבטיח+וגבינה+בולגרית
02:10:25 <kmc> nutella and sausage??
02:10:50 <kmc> hm I guess the palestinean cafe in Cambridge does a fruit & cheese plate that's p. good
02:11:15 <kmc> http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3398/3536010056_e9a8d6c67e.jpg awwwwww <3
02:11:30 <shachaf> and that one picture is... watermelon and halloumi??
02:11:39 <shachaf> imo "bizarre" but maybe it's good too
02:11:43 <elliott> was afraid that might be more elephant fisting
02:11:51 <kmc> never had halloumi
02:12:01 <shachaf> halloumi is a strange cheese
02:12:06 <shachaf> imo you should have some sometime
02:12:34 <shachaf> you have to grill it or something
02:12:56 <kmc> i'll fry it
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02:14:26 <kmc> zankou is the besssssst
02:14:56 <shachaf> hmm is halloumi not vegetarian :'(
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02:17:03 <ion> It’s cheese.
02:17:36 <shachaf> yes but is it "set with rennet"
02:18:35 <Jafet> Is the use of rennet really that much to stomach?
02:19:25 <kmc> these days some rennet is produced by transgenic bacteria
02:20:15 <kmc> bacteria *or* fungi I should say
02:20:36 <kmc> incl. black mold fungus
02:20:59 <kmc> shachaf: are you interested in cheese making?
02:21:10 <kmc> cathy makes cheese sometimes, mostly when we have some milk that has gone bad
02:21:17 <kmc> just acid-set cheese so far
02:21:26 <kmc> it comes out like paneer or cottage cheese, depending
02:21:33 <shachaf> hm i don't know much about cheese-making
02:21:57 <kmc> you can also get enzymes out of thistle or other plants that substitute for rennet
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02:22:37 <kmc> wonder how much it would cost to pay someone to drive 6 hours to los angeles and get zankou chicken for me and bring it back
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02:23:12 <elliott> los angeles is six hours away from san francisco?????
02:23:16 <Gracenotes> how much would it cost for them to not eat it on the way, is the real question
02:23:37 <elliott> Fiora: gonna need another diagram here
02:23:42 <kmc> elliott: yes approx
02:23:56 <shachaf> elliott: it's only about 2ms away at the speed of light ht
02:23:57 <kmc> elliott: I realize that's like twice the entire length of your damp & dismal island
02:26:20 <kmc> shachaf: also I found http://www.buyisraelgoods.org/scripts/mrkt_Home.asp?market_id=13&category_id=7 but maybe it's too creepy
02:28:45 <kmc> <beaky> why does the world need microcontrollers
02:28:50 <kmc> great contribution to ##electronics imo
02:29:03 <shachaf> perhaps .bg bulgarian cheese > .il bulgarian cheese
02:29:08 <Bike> why microcontrollers and not macrocontrollers??
02:29:45 <kmc> shachaf: we just don't know
02:30:14 <kmc> someone once told me bulgarian women are the most attractive
02:30:17 <kmc> he was quite insistent on this point
02:30:28 <Bike> i'm not sure i've ever seen a bulgarian person
02:35:18 <Bike> elliott: quick guide: (1) san francisco is in north california (2) los angeles is in the other california (3) california is big
02:35:48 <elliott> (3) is quite difficult or me
02:36:23 <Bike> elliott: basically imagine like, at least a hundred welsh people in a pile? that's like almost as big as california
02:36:54 <kmc> come on, it's not even as far as London to Glasgow
02:37:11 <shachaf> so if it can target GCC, it could be possible to modify Glasgow to work with gcc-avr and use haskell for AVR micro controller
02:37:18 <shachaf> But then we would need a special Haskell dialect that would allow us to modify register directly and embeded Assembly inside it (in the impure main function, as IO type)
02:37:40 <elliott> kmc: london and glasgow are literally in different countries
02:37:47 <kmc> Hexham to Dover
02:37:54 <elliott> nobody wants to go to dover
02:37:59 <kmc> what about the cliffs
02:38:11 <kmc> elliott: would you vote yes on scottish independence
02:38:13 <shachaf> elliott: same kingdom though
02:38:44 <shachaf> why do you even live in a kingdom
02:38:47 <elliott> their politics are a bit less fucked
02:38:54 <elliott> probably i would then have to move to scotland though
02:39:03 <elliott> and then i would freeze to death
02:39:40 <Bike> alright are you all ready for some Bad Java Code
02:39:56 <Bike> my friend works for a school and his undergrads decided they needed to write a calendar
02:39:56 <kmc> that said, continue.
02:39:59 <Bike> http://pastebin.com/qzngL9iE
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02:40:29 <elliott> kmc: why do you ask anyway
02:40:36 <HackEgo> Rig: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:40:39 <kmc> i don't understand
02:40:48 <kmc> people need to learn the basic visual technique
02:40:54 <kmc> of seeing code that looks the same seven times on the screen
02:40:56 <Bike> of freezing to death?
02:41:05 <kmc> this should cause you to feel a sensation similar to spiders trying to crawl up your butthole
02:41:22 <kmc> I think CS education needs more Ludovico Technique
02:41:23 <elliott> kmc's interests: elephant fisting, spider butthole invasions
02:41:31 <kmc> elliott: don't forget drug
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02:42:22 <Rig> Could be worse.
02:42:34 <Bike> rig could have been a spider butthole fetishist.
02:42:38 <Rig> I'm the one refactoring the code Bike shared.
02:42:42 <kmc> it takes all kinds
02:42:47 <kmc> ah good luck w/ that
02:42:51 <HackEgo> RiG: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
02:43:06 <kmc> `? welcome.es
02:43:10 <HackEgo> ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.)
02:43:13 <kmc> `? bienvenue
02:43:19 <Bike> i'm ust in love with "this.add(new Day(OfTheWeek.Monday, 1, 0));"
02:43:20 <HackEgo> Bienvenue sur le centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d'informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l'autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.)
02:43:24 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tervetuloa: not found
02:43:26 <Gracenotes> Bike: I like their anonymous ArrayList subclass
02:43:30 <Bike> hey what did youc all me
02:43:36 <shachaf> @ask ion to fix `tervetuloa hth
02:43:45 <kmc> Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product?
02:44:00 <kmc> either that or it means "welcome" in finnish
02:44:12 <Bike> don't finnish people welcome with fermented fish products
02:44:17 <kmc> and "tervemenoa" means "good riddance"
02:44:21 <Gracenotes> anyway, so many lines of code, I'm impressed. The author must have at least twice as many lines of code as his coworker. What a chump, that guy.
02:44:41 <elliott> `addquote <kmc> Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product? <kmc> either that or it means "welcome" in finnish
02:44:44 <HackEgo> 1070) <kmc> Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product? <kmc> either that or it means "welcome" in finnish
02:44:46 <elliott> you're on a roll today kmc
02:44:53 <kmc> I think I may be trying too hard
02:45:35 <Gracenotes> the key to trying too hard is to try harder, but try less frequently.
02:47:24 <shachaf> what's wrong with that java code "looks good to me"
02:47:34 <HackEgo> smlist (410): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
02:47:49 <mnoqy> ah yes it's that time of tuesday/thursday evening
02:48:28 <shachaf> olist and smlist in the same day
02:48:38 <Gracenotes> what was the exploit that used a previously unknown MD5 weakness?
02:49:11 <shachaf> every md5 weakness was previously unknown
02:49:34 <shachaf> perhaps you are thinking of the ""flame"" thing
02:50:27 <Gracenotes> yes, the recent one; I was reminded of it (though not the name) reading about Stuxnet
02:50:34 <Fiora> elliott: america is *really really huge*
02:50:36 <Fiora> like unreasonable huge
02:50:42 <Bike> at least twice as big as wales
02:51:03 <elliott> Fiora: agreed re: unreasonable
02:51:18 <elliott> austerity measure to save america money: cut down on size??? you really don't need all that country
02:51:29 <Bike> well it's not like we use all of it
02:51:30 <elliott> it's scary. you're intimidating all the other countries
02:51:32 <shachaf> we p. much just need the coasts
02:51:34 <Gracenotes> alaska and hawaii were just flagrant wastes of money
02:51:36 <Bike> the density drops off pretty hilariously in the middle
02:51:37 <Rig> Really, Texas could be sold.
02:51:40 <shachaf> the least coast and the best code
02:51:44 <Fiora> basically the US is like any normal country except everything is 5 times farther apart
02:51:50 <shachaf> initial and terminal objects in the category of coasts
02:51:56 <Bike> russia doesn't count since they just have everything in the west
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02:52:09 <Bike> and in the east they still have reindeer herders, because are you going to bother someone who lives in fucking siberia
02:52:26 <shachaf> Gracenotes: you aren't really a coast :'(
02:52:31 <elliott> america's size stems from them stretching out a far smaller area of land to make the most of what they had
02:52:37 <elliott> during the war of independence in 1 BC
02:52:50 <HackEgo> qxr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:53:07 <elliott> relcome is the best welcome, sorry
02:53:08 <Bike> `welcome elliott
02:53:10 <HackEgo> elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:53:15 <elliott> not sure we even need the others
02:53:16 <Bike> Rig: but who would buy texas.
02:53:19 <Rig> relcome does seem the best.
02:53:28 <HackEgo> RIG: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
02:53:34 <Rig> Nah, still not better.
02:53:37 <Gracenotes> I mean, Mexico has tons of empty space
02:53:40 <shachaf> Rig: You haven't seen half of the welcomes!
02:53:44 <Gracenotes> but everyone still insists on living in Mexico City
02:53:48 <shachaf> You have no place to say things like that.
02:54:07 <Rig> Bike tells me that HackEgo actually creates a VM for every command.
02:54:08 <Bike> The fullwidth welcome is still there, right?
02:54:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ Rig: not found
02:54:35 <HackEgo> ＲＩＧ： ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ ＴＯ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ ＨＵＢ ＦＯＲ ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ ＤＥＳＩＧＮ ＡＮＤ ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！ ＦＯＲ ＭＯＲＥ ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ
02:54:42 <elliott> not quite as heavy as a full vm but still "booting a kernel"
02:54:45 <Bike> hey, hey, why'd it cut off
02:54:50 <shachaf> Bike: irc length limits hth
02:55:03 <elliott> unfortunately there are no country length limits :(
02:55:11 <shachaf> elliott: hey not everybody in america is "fullwidth"
02:55:12 <Bike> imo, alias `america to `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ
02:55:42 <Bike> Rig: it's also under version control! so it's like at least thirty times better than the code at your job.
02:55:54 <Fiora> shachaf: is that a fat joke?
02:56:02 <Rig> Bike: Nah, we're under version control.
02:56:19 <Rig> SVN is not really my idea of good version control though.
02:56:28 <Bike> see. HackEgo is on, like. git? probably.
02:56:54 <elliott> because Gregor is kind of a weirdo
02:56:57 <Bike> close enough imo
02:57:10 <Rig> I'd settle for hg or git. But my boss dislikes distributed version control for some reason.
02:58:01 <shachaf> Fiora: i thought it was a response to one
02:58:07 <Gracenotes> Rig: use hg or git with the final backend being some boring centralized thing, with say a code review system in between.
02:58:24 <Rig> Hahaha. Code review.
02:58:24 <Bike> no, elliott was just talking about america having "a lot of territory", if you know what i mean.
02:58:34 <Bike> what i mean is the same as what i literally said, btw
02:58:55 <Fiora> bike did you invite a rig in here
02:59:02 <elliott> big rigs over the road racing
02:59:05 <Bike> yes we're all in the same other channel dunkass
02:59:22 <Rig> Bike told me there was no optimism in this channel.
02:59:38 <Rig> I think he introduced it as being full of cool people that hate programming.
02:59:48 <Bike> well, unfortunately, kmc recently got a cool job
02:59:54 <Bike> so people are in a good mood about programming
02:59:56 <Bike> it's terrible.
03:00:03 <elliott> no I still hate programming
03:00:28 <elliott> actually I don't hate programming
03:00:29 <shachaf> i sometimes wish elliott didn't hate things so much :'(
03:00:40 <elliott> are you saying you hate my hatred of things
03:00:46 <Bike> he just wouldn't be the same elliott if he had a healthy, sustainable outlook on life
03:01:03 <shachaf> Bike: hatred is sustainable
03:01:13 <oerjan> > (text.flap) "uɐɾɹǝo"
03:01:28 <Gracenotes> general hatred from a person, or specific hatred of a person?
03:01:48 <Gracenotes> the latter is usually more sustainable than the former.
03:02:06 <Bike> look man, i'm not a "hatred expert". I have people for that. People and elephants.
03:02:17 <shachaf> Gracenotes: is that like initial and terminal objects
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03:02:47 <shachaf> well i mean there's always an identity morphism
03:02:53 <shachaf> so everyone hates themselves
03:02:56 <elliott> hey people remember when this channel made sense
03:03:07 <shachaf> it made sense before you joined
03:03:09 <Gracenotes> it's like a category but with no identities. the best kind.
03:03:09 <Bike> category theory "makes sense".
03:03:19 <shachaf> Gracenotes: that's called a semigroupoid
03:03:19 <elliott> Bike: does this honestly look like category theory to you
03:03:33 <Bike> no, it looks like shachaf.
03:03:37 <Bike> i assume shachaf is a category.
03:03:40 <shachaf> what does shachaf look like
03:04:04 * Fiora hugs Rig here too then
03:04:19 <Gracenotes> omg you can't just ask what shachaf looks like
03:04:28 <Gracenotes> you have to put him in diagrams and ask if they commute
03:04:50 <shachaf> kmc: should i have a hair cut y/n
03:04:55 <shachaf> my hair is getting annoying
03:05:22 <kmc> shachaf: i don't remember how much hair you have
03:05:28 <kmc> however if you don't like having that much, you should get it cut
03:05:33 <kmc> you will look good either way
03:05:46 <shachaf> well that goes without saying hth
03:06:03 <shachaf> on july 25 2011 i shaved all my hair
03:06:17 <elliott> Rig: hey you'll probably hear an equally terrible joke along these lines like at least once in the future here so I'm gonna get it out the way with:
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03:06:26 <shachaf> and then went for a few hours of walking in the sun and got a sunburn :'(
03:06:27 <elliott> Rig: the best thing about you is that you're never negative
03:06:38 <Bike> i... don't get it
03:06:39 <elliott> everyone who got that feel free to kill me
03:06:49 <Gracenotes> man that's also the best thing about functors
03:07:15 <Rig> Yeah, I don't get it.
03:07:25 <Bike> is "positive rig" a thing...
03:07:30 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rig_(mathematics)
03:07:39 <Bike> i already hate this.
03:07:54 <Bike> oh. right. ring -> rig.
03:07:57 <Bike> i hate mathematicians.
03:07:58 <shachaf> elliott: without the requirement that each element has an additive inverse
03:08:08 <shachaf> and every ring is a rig "etc "etc""
03:08:12 <elliott> in retrospect that was colossally terrible on so many levels
03:08:21 <Rig> Mathematicians and computer scientists should stop naming things.
03:08:32 <kmc> but we have so many things!
03:10:19 <Gracenotes> Rig had a lot of foresight to name themselves after a mathematical abstraction.
03:10:44 <Rig> I was prepared.
03:10:48 <shachaf> why is there no good one-word name for a commutative semiring
03:10:51 <elliott> well probably it wasn't foresight, I suspect Rig had insider knowledge about it
03:10:55 <elliott> you could say the whole thing was
03:11:05 <Bike> what the fuck was that, elliott.
03:11:08 <Bike> what the fuck was that.
03:11:10 <Gracenotes> shachaf: let's start with a commutative group
03:11:11 <Bike> i a disgusted.
03:11:18 <Bike> so disgusted i can't use words.
03:12:29 <Gracenotes> the pun hate is too strong in this area
03:12:47 <shachaf> these puns aren't pleasant or helpful to us please stop
03:13:32 <Fiora> but these puns are purrfect
03:13:58 -!- shachaf has left.
03:14:22 <Fiora> eesh, I really shouldn't catpun around him should I ...
03:14:54 <Gracenotes> when you're a pun-hater, everything around you looks like a nail... pun.
03:15:01 <Bike> yeah, what Gracenotes said.
03:16:27 <Bike> a pail? alt. a nun.
03:17:02 <kmc> is that an anagram
03:17:31 <Bike> ping faillls? i dunno
03:19:25 <mnoqy> shachaf being weird again eh
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03:33:15 <oerjan> elliott: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=area+of+california+%2F+area+of+united+kingdom hth
03:33:24 <elliott> oerjan: not clicking, too scary
03:35:05 <kmc> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+california+%2F+population+of+united+kingdom
03:35:32 <elliott> UK has one more elliott than california
03:36:16 <Bike> you were winning anyway
03:36:32 <Fiora> but the US has one more fiora >:3
03:36:48 <Bike> oh yeah well..... actually i guess bikes are common in both places
03:37:38 <Bike> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=number+of+bikes+in+california nooooo
03:37:50 <elliott> UK is geographically closer to oerjans!!!
03:38:05 <elliott> gotta use everything we got here
03:38:25 <Bike> Common campus transportation | Exercise room lineup | Exercises outdoors | Items in a rack | Some exercise equipment
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03:41:56 <shachaf> kmc: are you going to read JaffaCake's book when it comes out next month
03:42:16 <shachaf> _Parallel and Concurrent Programming in Haskell_
03:43:11 <qxr> Always the right answer.
03:43:34 <shachaf> anyway this book is looking p. great
03:46:21 <Bike> probably will never read it & feel miserable
03:47:10 <shachaf> copumpkin: should i get the paper version & read it
03:47:29 <copumpkin> I ordered a copy and will tell you three years from now when I get a chance to read it
03:47:43 <shachaf> hey did you read that one story thing
03:47:46 <oerjan> shachaf: ##nomic was the right window hth
03:48:01 <oerjan> also this scrollback is large
03:48:49 <oerjan> > (text.flap) "oǝɹɾɐ¿"
03:49:37 <shachaf> kmc: should i bring any paper books with me for you to read
03:50:43 <shachaf> Bike: oh should i read some of the other clavell books other than _Shōgun_
03:50:59 <shachaf> they have them for $not much at the used bookstore
03:51:51 <oerjan> <elliott> i bet oerjan got it <-- yep
03:52:02 <shachaf> "James Clavell's Shōgun is an interactive fiction computer game written by Dave Lebling and released by Infocom in 1989."
03:52:23 <Bike> uh ih aven't read clavell
03:53:45 <shachaf> copumpkin: well can you tell me about the uh printing quality or something
03:54:03 <Bike> who cares about physical books vs. pdfs they're both pretty good imo
03:54:20 <shachaf> copumpkin: is it a "proper book" or just a bunch of pages badly glued together or what
03:54:25 <shachaf> Bike: imo screens are bad hth
03:56:00 <oerjan> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+california+*+area+of+california+%2F+%28population+of+united+kingdom+*+area+of+united+kingdom%29 much more reasonable!
03:56:41 <shachaf> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+united+states+*+area+of+united+states+%2F+%28population+of+united+kingdom+*+area+of+united+kingdom%29
03:57:23 <Bike> what i'm getting out of this is the UK needs more Fioras if it wants to keep pace.
03:58:11 <Bike> mountains of plush
03:58:21 <Bike> you put them under boxes
03:58:22 <qxr> Immigration?
03:58:24 <Bike> like how you catch rabbits
03:59:09 <Fiora> according to daki they're made out of moe, I think?
03:59:14 <kmc> shachaf: bring me a smullyan book
03:59:20 <oerjan> shachaf: plz fix text.flap hth
03:59:30 <shachaf> oerjan: Jafet wrote it. Jafet can fix it
03:59:31 <Bike> shachaf: bring kmc the smullyan book with the kingdom of laughter
03:59:44 <shachaf> Bike: hmm i was going to bring a different one
03:59:53 <Bike> you could bring the different one instead
03:59:54 <shachaf> Bike: maybe i'll bring both
03:59:58 <Bike> there are options
04:01:48 <kmc> can't guarantee i'll finish reading them in a reasonable amount of time
04:01:51 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, mauke's original flap was good.
04:02:00 <Bike> what does flap do
04:02:01 <shachaf> kmc: what about a bounded amount of time
04:02:06 <lambdabot> mauke says: let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\
04:02:06 <lambdabot> x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235"
04:02:11 <Bike> oh that's pretty good.
04:02:17 <shachaf> > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ (flap.flap) "oerjan"
04:02:23 <shachaf> > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ flap "oerjan"
04:02:41 <Bike> the upside down j is kind of bad
04:03:01 <shachaf> > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ flap "bicycle"
04:03:14 <Bike> that's more like it
04:03:27 <shachaf> > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ flap "telemarketer"
04:03:41 <Bike> qxr: see? programming
04:03:57 <qxr> I never indicated anything to the contrary!
04:03:58 <shachaf> More like running programs.
04:04:03 <shachaf> mauke is the programmer here.
04:04:07 <elliott> is this another Bike program
04:04:12 <elliott> is this another Bike person
04:04:22 <Bike> there is only one bike, we've been over this
04:04:31 <shachaf> well Fiora is a Bike person
04:04:46 <Bike> a bike/human hybrid
04:04:48 <shachaf> or maybe Bike is an Sgeo_ person
04:04:51 <elliott> by Bike person I mean someone Bike brought. like Rig.
04:05:03 <qxr> No, I'm just here.
04:05:08 <Bike> rig is not a number, he is a free man
04:05:12 <Bike> we could all aspire to be here, imo
04:05:13 <Rig> Not really.
04:07:42 <qxr> I don't even own a bike.
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04:24:14 <shachaf> Bike: a hyphen in a binomial just means that the second term is negative hth
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04:38:09 <shachaf> copumpkin: Hmm, I think they keep updating the book or something.
04:39:03 <shachaf> copumpkin: I mean the printed version.
04:39:21 <copumpkin> sure, no point in printing older versions :)
04:41:01 <copumpkin> but I'm sure any state of the book is still valuable
04:41:12 <copumpkin> even though it'll probably be out of date within a few days :P
04:41:40 <shachaf> perhaps less point if you're not going to read it
04:41:49 <Bike> i think y'all are weird
04:41:56 <copumpkin> you never know when you might ned it
04:42:09 <Bike> better just destroy ozone to be safe
04:42:18 <Bike> it could grow fangs later
04:42:35 <shachaf> copumpkin: don't you have enough giant suvs
04:43:05 <shachaf> well once you accept that negative giant suvs exist
04:43:17 <shachaf> presumably they pay you money to take them
04:43:26 <shachaf> so why wouldn't you get a lot
04:45:02 <Bike> well, it means you lose antigold, which makes it harder to fly
04:45:55 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_cuisine
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05:01:10 <Bike> https://twitter.com/nedroid/status/354821827924733952
05:02:17 <shachaf> hmm you should follow me on twitter
05:02:41 <shachaf> all my tweets seem to be good so far
05:02:53 <Bike> how good we talkin
05:03:51 <shachaf> ok something is broken here
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05:04:47 <Bike> i'm not a "twitter expert".
05:05:04 <shachaf> ok this is making no sense
05:05:25 <shachaf> Bike: the point is, you should follow me so i can spam you with special promotions
05:05:43 <shachaf> sales and events that may be of interest to you
05:06:02 <Bike> @tell Taneb a Jake cosplayer trying to to eroticly lick a gun
05:06:39 <oerjan> Bike: why are you trying to destroy Taneb's mind tnh
05:07:00 -!- FireFly has joined.
05:07:16 * oerjan swats FireFly -----###
05:08:09 <Bike> oerjan's gone mad with power
05:08:14 <shachaf> copumpkin: are you a "hug person"
05:09:55 <copumpkin> I don't do it spontaneously much but I don't mind it at all
05:14:12 <oerjan> Bike: i'm sorry but swatting FireFly is an ancient #esoteric tradition.
05:14:58 <shachaf> oerjan is an ancient #esoteric tradition
05:15:15 <shachaf> FireFly, on the other hand, has a lifespan of ~2 months
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05:22:12 <HackEgo> 151) <fungot> elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task.
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05:34:19 <kmc> <SuperBrainAK> oh boy i thnk i better put on some eye protection cuz half of a transistor shot off and hit my window
05:34:33 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal Oh, it's very home-made, and still a bit work-in-progress. E.g. the pitch control (for taking multi-row shots) works by loosening/tightening the top screw with a hex key (from some IKEA furniture, I think) and a small wrench; I was going to drill some more holes so that I could lock it to pre-set positions with a pin.
05:34:38 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal Also the mine lake stage photo on the Flickr page (p1180390-437) has some visible seams at the walkway leading to the stage; the panohead worked just fine, but the floating stage itself kept floating around, not much it can do about that.
05:35:45 <Bike> kmc: wow i have that same problem
05:43:42 <fizzie> Hi, oerjan. Ho, er, Jan.
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06:44:50 <Taneb> I am still internally debating whether to email Ian Stewart about further reading or not
06:45:09 <Bike> emailing smart people is great
06:46:23 <Taneb> I am not very good at it!
06:47:25 <Bike> you'll probably just get a form response gees
06:47:50 <Taneb> Maybe I could ask Phantom_Hoover to track him down
06:49:19 <Taneb> Taneb->elliott ~ Phantom_Hoover -> Ian Stewart
06:51:07 <Taneb> I wonder if he plays Dwarf Fortress
06:57:05 <kmc> who's Ian Stewart
07:00:35 <Taneb> A mathematician and pop science author
07:01:25 <kmc> 17 Equations Guiltied to a Zegnatronic Rocket Society
07:01:45 <Bike> his book on astrobiology was p. great
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07:07:07 <Taneb> kmc, define:zegnatronic
07:07:51 <Bike> @wn zegnatronic
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07:09:15 <kmc> word invented by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chu
07:11:04 <Bike> so i found a pretty good "stupid future" thing
07:11:12 <oerjan> not to be confused with Frank Cho
07:11:12 <Bike> remember back when bin laden was assassinated and that one guy tweeted it?
07:11:21 <shachaf> this writing style reminds me of zzo38 a bit but not a lot: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CAOsGNSQ4dEn%2B_k4iSwiPDgjYzzpOgVogYxmH99nugjX5OvkzPg%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=yaml-core
07:11:45 <shachaf> actually it's not very zzo38y
07:12:07 <kmc> shachaf is training to be a forensic expert in distinguishing real zzo38 writings from forgeries
07:14:18 <Bike> "Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1 am. (is rare event)" "Go away helicopter before I get my giant swatter"
07:14:36 <Bike> (referring to the SEAL copters, not that he knew that)
07:14:47 <kmc> i thought they were... stealth
07:14:58 <Bike> four of them were but they brought some bigger ones too
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07:15:06 <elliott> doesn't that kind of defeat the point
07:15:09 <kmc> cause that's how stealth works
07:15:13 <Bike> they had the stealth ones land first
07:15:14 <Taneb> Remember when C. Julius Caesar was assassinated and some guy tweeted about it
07:15:28 <Bike> ANYWAY since tweets are precisely timed, pakistan's investigatory commission quotes his tweets in their report
07:15:31 <Bike> and calls him the most reliable witness
07:15:56 <Bike> more reliable than one of the bodyguards' wives, or a neighbor who the SEALs tied up
07:16:22 <kmc> has anyone made a cryptocurrency which uses twitter as a timestamping service
07:16:28 <elliott> well, you can't get much more reliable than having a twitter.
07:16:42 <Bike> the other witnesses are seriously bad, it's kind of great
07:17:00 <shachaf> hey you should follow me on twitter
07:17:00 <Bike> some random soldier who happened to be nearby, obviously making shit up to justify not going to look
07:17:17 <Bike> shachaf: imo tweet about illegal military operations first.
07:18:02 <Bike> the thing i really don't get about the helicopters is that one of them crashed
07:18:07 <Bike> that seems like, kind of a pretty bad fuckup
07:18:19 <Bike> when you're a hundred miles into semi-enemy territory?
07:19:19 <Bike> "The Commission noticed that he produced no evidence of his statements and accordingly no weight could be given to his assertions" sample quote re other witnesses
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07:29:51 <Bike> kmc, elliott: yeah, it was black hawks and then chinooks.
07:30:12 <elliott> how stealthy are stealth helicopters really
07:30:20 <elliott> like it seems pretty hard to hide a helicopter
07:30:37 <Bike> they flew really low to the ground and knew where the radar stations were
07:31:02 <Bike> but i mean, yeah, seems like kind of a fuckup n the part of the pakistani military.
07:31:04 <Taneb> Why not use a jeep or so
07:32:26 <Bike> well have you seen pakistan
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07:33:46 <Taneb> Used to live there
07:34:17 <Bike> in the north or near islamabad?
07:35:02 <Bike> well, really north, i guess :V
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07:37:11 <Taneb> Without typos I would have said, "My mum used to live there"
07:37:25 <Bike> oh, i thought that was "My mum & I"
07:37:53 <Taneb> Nah, my phone keyboard is annoying
07:38:44 <Taneb> It was where my mum learnt to speak Italian
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07:46:18 <oerjan> learning to speak italian in pakistan, aha
07:46:35 <oerjan> Taneb: your family has a strange relationship to countries hth
07:51:15 <oerjan> were you an embassy kid?
07:52:33 <oerjan> (i assume you no longer are because, hexham)
07:52:52 <Bike> joke about hexham not being part of england
07:54:34 <oerjan> (well also you are no longer a kid, come to think of it. damn you people grow fast.)
07:54:58 <elliott> wow oerjan doesn't know about the hexham embassies
07:55:36 <oerjan> i suppose it would be a fine place for unexpected embassies, men of black style
07:56:37 <oerjan> wait this is why elliott and Taneb can never meet: one of them is an alien. now we just have to find out which one.
07:57:22 <oerjan> (also whichever it is, i'd like a lift off planet, thank you)
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08:01:25 <shachaf> Taneb: are you the one in http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=392
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08:03:18 <Taneb> I was not an embassy kid. My gramdfather worked for some NGO making a dam in Pakistan when my mum was a child.
08:05:05 <Taneb> The project was managed by an Italian company
08:07:00 <Taneb> My dad was an australian I T contractor who moved to the UK looking for work where he met my mum
08:07:55 <Taneb> His parents had emigrated to Australia from the Netherlands in the fifties for reasons I forget
08:09:03 <Taneb> My mum's mum was born in California because her dad had a job managing a paint factory there.
08:09:27 <Taneb> None of them claimed US citizenship.
08:10:12 <Taneb> That is a lot of the weird stuff in my family relating to countries
08:10:47 <Taneb> I have skipped the bit about Ghana because
08:10:56 <Taneb> I do not know enough
08:11:14 <oerjan> ...you were doing so well until that last bit :P
08:12:43 <Taneb> It was similar to Pakistan except my mum hadn't been born yet and I think it was with the military
08:14:12 <Taneb> There are rumours of Spanish ancestors on my mum's side and Sri Lankan on my dad's side
08:14:45 <shachaf> oerjan: sounds to me like Taneb is the alien
08:15:10 <oerjan> shachaf: yeah that's quite implausibly complicated for an earthling
08:16:30 <Taneb> My gran has lived on every continent bar south america and antarctica
08:17:17 <shachaf> That's a lot of continent bars.
08:22:47 <Taneb> I am proud to be the creator of the esolang with the longest name
08:23:43 <Gracenotes> longer than the maximum length of a wiki title?
08:24:10 <Taneb> No b because that would be stupid
08:24:39 <shachaf> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download?
08:24:53 <Gracenotes> I will not be impressed unless it is longer than the maximum length of a wiki page
08:25:15 <Gracenotes> Nay, longer than the number of atoms in the known universe
08:25:34 <Taneb> Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
08:25:38 <Gracenotes> oh but yeah a mouthful to pronounce would also be p. good.
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08:25:55 <shachaf> Is that really the esolang with the longest name?
08:26:04 * shachaf finds that difficult to believe.
08:26:12 <Taneb> Last time I checked
08:26:46 <oerjan> Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
08:26:57 <oerjan> slightly shorter than that
08:27:15 <Taneb> It is longer than Compiler Language With No Pronouncable Acronym
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08:30:47 <oerjan> of course the welsh just laugh at the idea that clwnpa is unpronouncable.
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08:52:45 <coppro> Jafet: I'm stealing a patch of yours for NetHack 4. How would you like to be credited?
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09:27:11 <Jafet> Via money transfer thanks
09:30:38 <Jafet> "The pirate stole a patch"
09:32:08 <Jafet> "After applying the patch, he placed a hook in a patchy tomcat"
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09:43:53 <Jafet> I guess it's the unidentification patch. Wow, there are more strstrs in here than I remember.
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10:05:58 <coppro> Jafet: invoking the book
10:06:11 <coppro> required for permablind
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10:17:21 <johnny57> Damn there are real alien nazis http://www.alienandufopictures.com/ufo_pictures.html
10:18:13 <HackEgo> johnny57: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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10:29:59 <Jafet> coppro: well, you might want to change one of the lines in oracles.txt when you apply the patch. For, you know, the people who still visit the Oracle and stuff.
10:31:04 <Jafet> "If thou maintainest the utmost calm, thy safety will be aided greatly, but beware lest thy clumsy feet scuff the inscription, cancelling its potence."
10:33:31 <Jafet> I wisheth that the Oracle spake with less platitudinal bullshit
10:34:31 <lambdabot> ddarius says: "use the right platitude for the job"
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12:00:54 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.develop-online.net/news/44746/Valves-perfect-hiring-hierarchy-has-hidden-management-clique-like-High-School
12:30:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, all the Valve handbook stuff etc. always annoyed me; they're far too proud of themselves for 'eliminating' the usual problems with institutional hierarchies.
12:31:23 * Vorpal looks up Valve handbook
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13:10:02 <fizzie> For a moment there I was thinking about regular, you know, valves.
13:10:15 <fizzie> There are probably books about valves.
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13:48:21 <Taneb> Went to see Osbourne House today
13:52:15 <Gregor> Jul 09 22:56:44 <elliott> hackego uses hg
13:52:15 <Gregor> Jul 09 22:56:49 <elliott> because Gregor is kind of a weirdo
13:52:22 <Gregor> I feel like EVENTUALLY people will realize that git is horrible.
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13:53:05 <boily> git is good. git is your friend. have you heard of our Lord Git?
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14:20:26 <Gregor> I used e4ward to make myself a totally spam free universe and now I want to sign up for random crap online just so I can shoot down some spam :(
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15:34:50 <Taneb> I have got to do stop napping when I am bored
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15:45:56 <quintopia> napping is great. you should try not to be bored, but you should still nap sometimes :D
15:47:05 <Fiora> napping is wonderful
15:47:20 <boily> napping is great and good for your brains. unbore yourself with physical exercise, enjoy the weather, the cute Finland TREES and DOGS.
15:59:02 <kmc> Gregor: will people eventually realize that UNIX is horrible? or democracy?
16:08:13 * kmc is not convinced.
16:23:16 <fizzie> But you do have Finland trees, then?
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18:23:13 <Vorpal> Heh, I clicked on a link and all pages of that website crashed in chrome. That is across all the tabs that were open on that page.
18:28:50 <boily> isn't chrome supposed to have completely isolated tabs, where one crash can't propagate as a tribble infestation among everything?
18:29:06 <kmc> there are several tabs per process
18:32:42 <boily> there are several chromes, with several process, with several tabs, with several goats, then it's turtles all the way to the kernel.
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19:00:44 <fizzie> For some reason, OpenStreetMap tabs in Chromium have a habit of crashing if left unattended.
19:00:49 <fizzie> Don't know what's up with that.
19:01:49 <boily> hm. lambdabot is silent again. what about fungot?
19:02:12 <boily> aaaaaah! I need my fungot fix!
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19:05:35 <ion> How To Crack Open a Coconut http://youtu.be/M0S8RlFuaVo
19:05:52 * boily prods fizzie with a rubber cuttlefish "ME WANT FUNGOT!"
19:06:12 <ion> `tervetuloa hth
19:06:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tervetuloa: not found
19:06:24 <ion> shachaf: Seems to work fine.
19:09:27 <shachaf> ion: where are my services
19:10:02 <ion> I swallowed them, sorry.
19:14:14 <elliott> ion: did you know your irc client prefixes ops with a @
19:15:01 <fizzie> Vorpal: I'm stitching those Otaniemi pictures, and there's one (almost-)full-globe where the zenith images are of completely clear blue sky. Surprisingly, there are some problems defining control points for the blue rectangles.
19:15:15 <ion> elliott: That was a great revelation.
19:16:10 <fizzie> "channel 2: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed" huh
19:16:22 <fizzie> (SSH port forward message.)
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19:17:38 <FireFly> An alternative way to crack open a coconut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCZRnB3VFg
19:17:55 <ion> I think it should have given more information. Something like “channel 2: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed”
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19:19:05 <Vorpal> fizzie, also you can easily turn off port forwarding in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
19:19:11 <Vorpal> So I guess that is what happened
19:19:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, pretty pointless since you could write your own daemon on the other end to do port forwarding for you
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19:21:20 <fungot> boily: and we all will be well invested. get a backtrace, at least in the chicken hash table implementation
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20:13:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: Flickr'd those things: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/sets/72157634561814470/ (As for the almost-globe, just decided to drop the sky images for now; they're not all that terribly interesting, in the end.)
20:17:00 <boily> fizzie: is that that very large scale model of the solar system?
20:17:18 <fizzie> boily: No, it's a set of random panoramic pictures. Unless I linked to the wrong set.
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20:17:19 <fizzie> (There's a set of the solar system model, too.)
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20:19:17 <fizzie> Something I've wondered, re that model; is the Neptune model -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/9033742967/ -- trying to show some kind of surface features, or is it just flaky paint?
20:19:33 <boily> I surreptitiously clicked on your usernamef to see what other pictures you had.
20:20:48 <fizzie> I haven't used the Flickr account much, since I have a local Gallery2 installation for sharing vacation pics with relatives with.
20:23:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, that model, is that in Finland?
20:24:18 <Vorpal> I know there is one in Sweden that covers most of Sweden, with the Globen Statium in Stockholm being the sun.
20:24:50 <fizzie> It's in Finland, and it's smaller than that.
20:25:09 <fizzie> 1:10^9 in scale, so the Sun is about a metre and a half, or something like that.
20:25:36 <fizzie> And all the planets are in the Helsinki/Espoo area, it's a nice (20-or-so km) bike ride to go through them all.
20:25:38 <Vorpal> where is the sun? can't find the image
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20:26:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, or is that the thing on the pole?
20:26:11 <fizzie> It's the silly sphere -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/9033733679/
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20:26:25 <fizzie> The idea is that you should be able to see it from all of the planets.
20:26:29 <Vorpal> fizzie, nice panoramas anyway
20:26:35 <fizzie> (It doesn't entirely work, due to trees and so on.)
20:26:48 <Vorpal> didn't you say they were in a 20 km area or so?
20:27:01 <fizzie> And you need binoculars for the planets further away, yes.
20:27:12 <fizzie> Well, a 20 km round trip. I don't know what the furthest distance is.
20:27:22 <Vorpal> ah, so not in a line then
20:27:39 <Vorpal> well I guess they can't be in line due to some of the orbital resonances
20:28:28 <fizzie> The alignment of the planets might not correspond to any particular date, it's possible they've just put it where they found good locations.
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20:28:44 <fizzie> Pluto's (this predates the demotion) apparently about 6.1 km away from the Sun.
20:30:15 <fizzie> http://goo.gl/maps/eYwGR here's the GPS log for the trip those photos were taken at.
20:33:45 <Vorpal> fizzie, it is annoying that some apps seem to not be aware of dual monitors and open in the middle, and some open properly on one or the other monitor
20:33:49 <Vorpal> any idea what could cause that
20:34:51 <fizzie> Decades of history, I suppose. (Or in more detail, maybe non-Xinerama-aware code that manually queries screen extents and sets window position, instead of letting the window manager position it?)
20:36:08 <fizzie> I don't recall any examples offhand that'd open in the middle. (Though this is a tiling wm, so apps that don't get floated due to fixed-size windows or whatnot would be tiled anyway.)
20:36:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, hugin's splash screen in this case
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20:37:38 <fizzie> Curious; it opens in the center of the currently focused monitor, for me. (X is such a mess, though.)
20:38:47 <Vorpal> Have you bought the current humble bundle? Ebook one?
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20:39:31 <Vorpal> they just added some new stuff
20:39:39 <fizzie> No, but I bought the previous one (Android #6). Though with very little money, since it wasn't all that interesting.
20:40:07 <Vorpal> I got the current one just now, due to the new stuff they added
20:40:12 <Vorpal> was planning to skip it otherwise
20:40:21 <fizzie> Then I kept feeling guilty about giving them so little amount of money, even though the alternative would've been to give them nothing.
20:42:45 <fizzie> Speaking of Hugin, I can't figure out what the user-local directory for Python plugins is. http://hugin.sourceforge.net/releases/2011.2.0/en.shtml says "Moreover, plugins can be written, modified, customized in the user's own directory" but I haven't found any page that'd say what that directory is. (Or bothered to source-dive yet.)
20:43:25 <fizzie> (I wrote a small script to set the initial rough positions to what they tend to be after taking shots with the panohead.)
20:45:47 <Vorpal> what use are those scripts?
20:46:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, tried the new 2013.0.0 beta yet? They "streamlined" the UI, making it god-awful for the stuff I typically do. (Custom optimization configurations)
20:47:02 <fizzie> I've only read about it on the wiki so far.
20:47:06 <Vorpal> I went back to the 2012.0.0 version instead
20:47:45 <fizzie> From what I read, the "Expert" interface sounded reasonably similar to the old Hugin, but no, haven't tried it yet.
20:48:11 <boily> Vorpal: also my up arrow.
20:48:13 <fizzie> Well, "Advanced" or "Expert", I'm not quite sure what their difference is.
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20:48:30 <Vorpal> boily, I'm not familiar with that terminology?
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20:48:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, the expert interface was the one I was describing. The simple one is utterly useless
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20:56:35 <fizzie> Vorpal: Another slightly photography-related topic: turns out the N900 is reasonably usable for taking time-lapse shots (my regular camera doesn't have that functionality, and isn't computer-controllable; the old 2-mpix Canon that was I gave away); with a suitable gstreamer pipeline it can take, encode and wifi-send full-frame (2576x1936) jpegs at a bit over 1 fps, or 1920x1440-crop-to-1080p ...
20:56:42 <fizzie> ... images (for videoing) at about 2.2 fps. (Could perhaps go faster over usb-net as opposed to poor-signal-strength wifi.)
20:59:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, I guess I could use my own phone for that, what with the somewhat better camera than that
21:00:15 <Vorpal> Hm are there any color eink displays out yet?
21:00:21 <Vorpal> I know they are in the works as it were
21:00:53 <Vorpal> If so, how good are they?
21:00:58 <boily> Vorpal: the up arrow on my keyboard, it searchs through previous replies.
21:00:58 <fizzie> I think there's been some commercial products already, but nothing mainstream.
21:01:07 <boily> but time to go eat. I'm autodigesting myself.
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21:01:46 <fizzie> http://www.jetbook.net/ <- like that
21:01:59 <fizzie> Says it's "first ever", but you never know.
21:02:58 <fizzie> "Sadly, my Jetbook Color 2 arrived yesterday and the new screen for the most part is not visibly different from the screen on the original Jetbook Color.
21:03:01 <fizzie> Sure, the blacks are darker, and the colors are a little brighter, but unfortunately E-ink’s second-gen color E-ink screen has the same gray base color as the previous screen. It is a gray that is so dark that the original Kindle actually has a whiter screen."
21:03:42 <Vorpal> So time to wait a year or so before getting an e-reader
21:06:21 <fizzie> I guess it works by having a static RGBW kind-of-like-Bayer-pattern filter on top of the black-and-white screen, so the subpixels of a full-white pixel are still (the brightest possible) white, red, green and blue, so the overall effect is gray.
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21:11:32 <Vorpal> fizzie, for some reason I get the unlock dialog on the non-primary monitor hm
21:12:13 <fizzie> I get mine on the screen the cursor was on when I locked it.
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21:17:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, I will have to investigate that that wasn't the case
21:31:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, you are right, that was what happened
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23:31:27 <elliott> does anyone know what the new thinkpad keyboards are like
23:32:24 <Lumpio-> Probably still got Fn at bottom left
23:34:40 <kmc> i have an X1 Carbon with the new-style keyboard and it's fine
23:34:45 <kmc> feels at least as good as the old style
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23:35:20 <kmc> they were always tweaking the mechanism on the old style keyboards, anyway
23:35:35 <kmc> so this isn't some unprecedented shift in terms of mechanism, just appearance
23:36:12 <Vorpal> Lumpio-, thank god for that!
23:36:23 <kmc> it's missing SysRq and a few other keys, but there are secret Fn combos for them
23:36:31 <Lumpio-> I think they include a BIOS option these days to put Ctrl there
23:36:35 <Vorpal> kmc, I haven't heard of this new keyboard, what is the difference?
23:36:36 <kmc> although I didn't get magic SysRq to work
23:36:41 <kmc> Lumpio-: oh I heard about that
23:36:50 <kmc> the true location of Ctrl is to the left of 'a' ;P
23:37:01 <elliott> capslock ctrl is uncomfortable :(
23:37:06 <kmc> elliott: no
23:37:08 <kmc> elliott: why
23:37:15 <kmc> Vorpal: http://www.lenovo.com/shop/WW/products/splitter/notebooks/ThinkPad/X-Series/gallery/ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-Laptop-PC-Overhead-Keyboard-View-4L-940x475.jpg
23:37:15 <Vorpal> elliott, depends on your hands I bet
23:37:24 <kmc> they dropped a row of keys and added space between the keys
23:37:33 <kmc> and all the thinkpad diehards were like NOOOOO YOU MONSTERS
23:37:33 <elliott> kmc: my little finger doesn't like holding down the key in that position
23:37:34 <Vorpal> kmc, blasphemy! There is space between the keys
23:37:36 <kmc> but really, it feels fine
23:37:40 <Vorpal> messes up the distances
23:37:46 <kmc> don't agree
23:37:55 <elliott> ok to clarify when I asked my question I already knew Vorpal would hate it
23:37:58 <Vorpal> And I need to switch between normal PC keyboards, old laptop keyboards and thinkpads
23:38:10 <Vorpal> I have a really issue if the spacing change
23:38:11 <kmc> i do that too
23:38:15 <kmc> you can feel the edges between keys
23:38:20 <Vorpal> Really run into issues with spaced keyboards
23:38:22 <kmc> however I will accept that you and I are different human beings
23:38:41 * Fiora tries it, it feels awkward but maybe that's just habit?
23:38:41 <Vorpal> kmc, that is not the issue, I can't handle *scale* changes to keyboards very well.
23:38:44 <elliott> kmc: xah lee sez http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html but of course that is subject to xah lee being crazy
23:39:02 <elliott> though his reasons make sense to me
23:39:10 <Vorpal> I can get used to any, but since I switch so much I can't really get used to any that is far from the averagte
23:39:23 <elliott> what I might do is swap ctrl and alt
23:39:31 <elliott> IIRC they used to be in opposite positions on very old IBM keyboards
23:39:44 <elliott> either that or Alt was the standard keyboard shortcut modifier rather than Ctrl, so it was effectively swapped
23:39:52 <Vorpal> kmc, they moved pgup/pgdown too?
23:39:53 <elliott> and alt seems to be in a nicer position to hit regularly
23:40:06 <kmc> Vorpal: yeah, and got rid of the page forward / page back browser keys
23:40:11 <elliott> I guess macs effectively do that because cmd is where alt is on PC keyboards
23:40:42 <Vorpal> kmc, hm, this is the thinkpad layout I'm used to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/24aswje7idgwoo3/20120729_111221.jpg
23:41:26 <Vorpal> kmc, I used the forward/back keys for switching between terminal tabs in the terminal emulator
23:41:31 <elliott> kmc: that pgup/pgdown positioning looks a bit awkward
23:41:42 <elliott> but not like it really matters
23:42:03 <Fiora> my current keyboard has pgup and pgdn as FN-home and FN-end
23:42:05 <Fiora> which is a little od
23:42:09 <elliott> I used a keyboard with pgup/pgdown replacing some of the duplicate modifier keys on the right for a while, that was pretty nice actually
23:42:27 <Vorpal> elliott, I like that the esc key is no longer above F1, that used to trip me up going between my laptop and desktops
23:42:36 <Vorpal> That is one actual improvement
23:43:06 <kmc> i use Ctrl-[ for esc usually
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23:43:16 <Vorpal> kmc, does that work across the board?
23:43:21 <Vorpal> anyway where is your [?
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23:43:31 <Vorpal> for me that would be ctrl-altgr-8
23:43:32 <kmc> it's the key labeled _- on qwerty
23:43:35 <elliott> anyway I will look into thinkpads I guess
23:43:40 <Fiora> http://i.imgur.com/zna27l.jpg this one is mine
23:43:41 <kmc> and it works in standard terminals
23:43:50 <Vorpal> kmc, next to right shift?
23:43:59 <kmc> no two left of backspace
23:44:02 <Vorpal> elliott, getting a new computer?
23:44:10 <kmc> it works because the ESC character *is* Ctrl-[ in ASCII
23:44:13 <Vorpal> kmc, okay, not where it is on Swedish qwerty then!
23:44:32 <elliott> same way I've been "getting a new computer" for years but this time my current setup is annoying enough that I might actually do it
23:44:38 <Fiora> elliott: mine's purple though
23:44:39 <kmc> Ctrl = - 0x40
23:44:43 <Fiora> it lets you customize the colors
23:44:48 <Vorpal> elliott, ah, I got a new monitor recently
23:44:50 <elliott> Fiora: how utterly shocking
23:44:53 <Vorpal> elliott, so I have a dual monitor setup now
23:45:23 <elliott> laptops with number pads make me sad though :(
23:45:26 <Fiora> http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk102/hihihehe_ace/20120621_175804.jpg like that
23:45:30 <Fiora> there's a purple one
23:45:34 <elliott> means your hand is always going to be to the left
23:45:37 <Vorpal> elliott, a 24" 16:10 IPS. Dell UltraSharp 2412M. It actually is not too expensive for being an IPS. Good price/performance
23:45:58 <Fiora> yeah, I'm not sure it's necessary really... I do like that the keyboard is smaller (width-wise) though because of the pad though
23:47:02 <Vorpal> elliott, I have a UltraSharp 2410 at work, that is more than twice as expensive, for a 8 bits + 2 bits of AFRC and wide gamut, instead of 6 bits + 2 bits of AFRC and sRGB.
23:47:19 <elliott> why is there an extra one next to the space bar
23:48:15 <Vorpal> elliott, so you are getting a laptop?
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23:48:51 <Vorpal> elliott, Are you planning on coding much on it? Or what will the main purpose be?
23:49:10 <elliott> well as much as I code currently :P
23:49:14 <Vorpal> I found that I work more efficiently with really big screen estate, such as dual 24"
23:49:24 <Vorpal> Not sure if that is true for everyone, or if it is just me
23:49:41 <Vorpal> Dual screens is even nicer, makes having two maximised windows really nice
23:49:45 <elliott> I am ok with small screens
23:49:58 <elliott> I don't do much fancy in terms of coding environment anyway
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23:50:24 <Vorpal> I have started feeling cramped with just a single monitor. You get used to the dual screens really quickly.
23:50:28 <elliott> though high-PPI would be nice, the software support in linux seems to make that a waste of time for now
23:50:33 <Vorpal> I had tripple screens for a bit. That was *really* nice.
23:51:35 <Vorpal> (2x 24" 16:10 + 16:9 powerhouse laptop in dock at work. Really nice.)
23:52:45 <Vorpal> elliott, high ppi is nice, but I don't recall linux having problems with that hm?
23:53:04 <Vorpal> I know windows can't handle mixed low and high ppi screens well
23:53:14 <Vorpal> I assume linux could in theory?
23:53:35 <elliott> well it's about application support
23:53:50 <elliott> and the size of existing graphics etc.
23:54:08 <Vorpal> doesn't mostly everything use pango to render text these days anyway?
23:54:18 <elliott> like OS X's handling of the retina stuff is really good and just scaling up the X11 PPI setting isn't going to be remotely as effective for now
23:54:19 <Vorpal> and there tends to be SVG icons
23:54:19 <Koen_> GUYS THE VOICES ARE ON TO US THEY KNOW WE CAN HEAR THEM
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23:55:50 <Vorpal> Btw, is there any laptop with a non-straight keyboard? Ergonomic I mean
23:56:05 <Vorpal> Maybe not as extreme as a MS natural or such, but somewhat
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23:57:03 <Koen_> hey are there keyboards you can put on the palm of your hands?
23:57:55 <Vorpal> Koen_, I guess you could strap on the datahand and it would still work?
23:58:05 <Bike> There are keyer gloves...
23:58:58 <Vorpal> Bike, how do they work? Do you end up looking really futuristic while using them
23:59:18 <Bike> it's just a chorded keyboard, as far as i know
23:59:58 <Bike> i know a guy who uses his regular keyboard as chorded, maybe i can ask him
23:59:58 <Vorpal> http://www.keyglove.net/ <-- this one looks like a prototype hm