00:00:44 <madbr> I think I figured how to do sound on a replacement/upgrade of Chip8 ( http://www.chip8.com/ )
00:02:19 <zzo38> What is it when you are both wise and mad?
00:02:26 <zzo38> madbr: How do you do it?
00:02:30 <madbr> 2 cpu cores, one does sound :D
00:02:44 <madbr> and just does software mixing into some buffer
00:03:13 <madbr> the 2 cpu cores communicate through just some 256 byte buffer or something like that
00:03:55 <madbr> makes it a lot easier to emulate because you can just run the main core on the main thread (and render gfx etc there) and run the sound core on the sound driver callback thread
00:04:20 <madbr> and just copy the 256 byte buffer every frame
00:04:25 <zzo38> Well, there is BytePusher which needs software mixing for sound although it is only a single core
00:05:11 <madbr> also both cores have completely separated ram/data
00:05:40 <madbr> zzo: single core makes it hard to get low latency
00:05:53 <madbr> because you have to render enough audio on each frame
00:06:46 <oerjan> zzo38: then you're nasreddin hth
00:07:30 <oerjan> or perhaps more generally, the Fool
00:08:33 <madbr> generating audio on a gfx update thread is not generally a good idea
00:14:21 <zzo38> madbr: You are probably correct about that, but sometimes there isn't really another way.
00:14:55 <madbr> though if you're ok with something like 50ms latency then there's no problem
00:14:55 <zzo38> I know SDL uses a separate thread for audio, though.
00:15:21 <madbr> (and tbh you need special setups for sub 30ms latencies on OSes like windows anyways)
00:18:45 <madbr> but yeah it's like
00:19:01 <madbr> you have to chose your opcodes well because that's what people will use to make gfx
00:19:13 <madbr> if alpha blending is easy, everything will be transparent
00:19:41 <madbr> if scaling is easy everything will be some sort of fake 3d (like wolfenstein etc)
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00:26:25 <kmc> Fiora: wow awesome
00:26:57 <Fiora> "Millisecond pulsars, which can be timed with high precision, are better clocks than the best atomic clocks."
00:27:18 <Fiora> http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/751.pdf wow, NIST has a paper on it
00:27:30 <Bike> um which one is NIST
00:27:48 <Fiora> Um... national... institute of standards and technology
00:27:52 <Fiora> they're the ones that run the fountain clocks I think?
00:28:02 <Fiora> and the hash function competitions
00:28:12 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIST-F1
00:30:15 <zzo38> But does relative spacetime ever get in the way of these kind of things?
00:30:46 <Bike> star passes in front of pulsar a million years ago, slightly warps light, earth civilization collapses
00:31:02 <kmc> that would be awkward
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00:32:08 <Fiora> I think the idea is you'd use a lot of different ones?
00:33:00 <Bike> fucking engineers, always bringing "realism" into my civilization collapse fanfiction
00:35:20 -!- Bike_ has joined.
00:35:25 <zzo38> What is a Black problem? (as in "You start debating the Black problem with Lieutenant Grgirok!")
00:36:27 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services).
00:36:29 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
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00:44:23 <shachaf> kmc: I heard Rust 1.0 is not planned to have higher-kinded type variables only because no one cares enough to implement it. :-(
00:56:24 <oerjan> they're probably just secretly afraid of getting Monad
00:57:13 <kmc> my new pseudonym will be Rusty Burrito
00:58:22 <zzo38> madbr: I am not too sure; someone will make things that don't use all of the features, even though they might be available.
01:00:13 <zzo38> shachaf: That's why? Does it have higher-kinded types though?
01:03:53 <shachaf> zzo38: That depends on what you mean.
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01:16:26 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: or they have a limited resource to harmonize all the proposed things ;)
01:17:29 <HackEgo> monotone: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
01:19:30 <doesthiswork> now that we have one monotone in here, this channel is monotone increasing
01:19:50 <Bike> boo get off the stage
01:20:09 <monotone> I really should stop picking usernames based on the first word that pops into my head.
01:20:58 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: why are you using a smiley when i am the one who is joking
01:21:46 <Bike> it's a kind-level joke
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01:41:13 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:5: parse error on input `]'
01:41:38 <oerjan> i wonder exactly what could replace that ] and make it parse correctly
01:42:01 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:3: parse error on input `]'
01:42:08 <lambdabot> A section must be enclosed in parentheses thus: (+ 3)
01:42:23 <lambdabot> A section must be enclosed in parentheses thus: (+ 3 4)
01:42:59 <lambdabot> A section must be enclosed in parentheses thus: (... 1)Not in scope: `...'
01:45:29 <oerjan> i thought ghc used a lalr style parser, so shouldn't err out later than the first token which cannot be valid
01:46:00 <shachaf> Well, it looks like it handles the [`op` x] case specially.
01:46:26 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:6: parse error on input `]'
01:46:34 <ion> A beard must be stroked thusly:
01:47:12 <pikhq_> > let op = 1 in [`op`]
01:47:13 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:20: parse error on input `]'
01:47:26 <ion> > [ `op` ]
01:47:27 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:8: parse error on input `]'
01:47:38 <oerjan> so perhaps there _is_ some valid way to start with [`op`
01:50:32 <oerjan> ...wait, perhaps it is doing it just so it can give that special helpful error for sections
01:50:50 <shachaf> Yes, that's what I said above.
01:53:14 <oerjan> 09:17:25: <Taneb> If a dying star starts with enough energy, can it fuse past iron?
01:53:17 <oerjan> 09:32:37: <FreeFull> Taneb: It's called a supernova
01:53:20 <oerjan> 09:33:09: <FreeFull> Supernovas are how all elements past iron got made, and also they are good because they spread those elements around
01:53:37 <oerjan> there is also a process in red giants
01:54:01 <oerjan> the s-process of neutron capture
01:54:49 <FreeFull> Ah, apparently it makes up to Pb
01:55:18 <oerjan> the r-process in supernovas is also neutron capture, but they behave differently because in supernovas the nuclei don't have time to decay between one capture and the next
01:56:06 <oerjan> r and s are for rapid and slow respectively iirc
01:57:01 <oerjan> @tell taneb See logs for corrections to "all elements past iron are made in supernovas" hth
01:57:55 <oerjan> it's a common misunderstanding, i think
02:01:48 <FreeFull> Which process is more responsible for the heavy stuff?
02:09:15 <oerjan> istr about half of isotopes beyond iron each. also very vaguely that there might be some more minor processes.
02:10:12 -!- dlerimpf has joined.
02:10:21 <dlerimpf> Here is a simple challenge, check if a piece of text is a palindrome:
02:10:27 <dlerimpf> -Returns text "$variable is palindrome" if palindrome
02:10:36 <dlerimpf> -Returns text "$variable is not palindrome [reverse shown]" if not a palindrome
02:11:08 <zzo38> What programming language did you want? That is possible in different ways in other programming languages; some already have a command for reversing a text that way you can check easily
02:12:03 <Bike> > (\x -> x = reverse x) "amanaplanacanalpanama"
02:12:04 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:10: parse error on input `='
02:12:06 <zzo38> They both have command to reverse a string built-in, I think.
02:12:09 <Bike> > (\x -> x == reverse x) "amanaplanacanalpanama"
02:12:14 <oerjan> > join(==).reverse$"ablewasiereisawelba"
02:12:15 <Bike> > (\x -> x == reverse x) "fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck"
02:12:44 <dlerimpf> <?php if ($argc !== 2) die ("Usage: {$argv[0]} string_to_test"); if ($argv[1] === strrev($argv[1])) die ("{$argv[1]} is a palindrome."); else die ("${argv[1]} is not a palindrome: " . strrev($argv[1]));
02:13:09 <shachaf> a man, a plan, a can, al-panama
02:13:40 <Bike> so is oerjan's
02:13:48 <shachaf> dlerimpf: Are you mafingre etc.?
02:14:10 <Bike> they're both basically the same as yours.
02:14:26 <Bike> it could be done faster, but, Like, Why Bother, Man
02:14:51 <dlerimpf> So it wont be shorter in golfscript?
02:15:07 <Bike> i don't know,maybe it is.
02:15:18 <zzo38> I think it will be shorter in GolfScript, probably
02:21:00 <shachaf> dlerimpf: So is that a yes or a no or what?
02:21:37 <dlerimpf> shachaf: I have no idea what you are on about
02:22:16 <Bike> > "Hello" !! 0
02:22:32 <elliott> dlerimpf: protip: your challenges will be a lot more warmly received if you stop the using different names and denying it thing. really.
02:22:33 <dlerimpf> shachaf: Are you Shachaf Ben-Kiki?
02:22:50 <elliott> it's ridiculous, didn't we go over this last time? :P
02:23:07 <shachaf> elliott: Also, it's a different IP address, unlike last time.
02:23:15 <dlerimpf> elliott: Point is, why does it matter who I am?
02:23:18 <elliott> shachaf: yes, but same ISP and first component
02:23:24 <elliott> and also same everything else
02:23:39 <shachaf> Is it? I must be thinking of a different one.
02:23:57 <dlerimpf> shachaf: Why? You seem so interested who I am?
02:24:01 <elliott> dlerimpf: yo, I'm going to ban you if you don't stop now.
02:24:19 <dlerimpf> elliott: Then please stop asking who I am. It is irrelevant and OT
02:24:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
02:24:41 -!- elliott has kicked dlerimpf please take this hint. it will be best for both of us..
02:24:42 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
02:25:01 -!- dlerimpf has joined.
02:25:10 * elliott orchestra cuts out suddenly
02:25:10 <Bike> Fiora: clapping is off-topic!!
02:25:21 * Bike plays record scratch on mp3 player
02:25:24 <zzo38> Let's start more orchestra.
02:25:26 <Fiora> oh no! I hath violated the esoteric topic!
02:25:34 <Bike> let's Rock Out
02:25:41 <Bike> Fiora: can we make music out of pulsars
02:25:49 <shachaf> Fiora: only challenges are on-topic
02:26:16 <Fiora> Bike: well, like, they come in all kinds of frequencies, right? from like 0.1hz to 700hz
02:26:18 <dlerimpf> Shachaf Ben-Kiki, I never said that, but you decided to change the topic
02:26:29 <Fiora> so you can get lots of different notes just by picking the right pulsar!
02:26:49 <Bike> Fiora: those are pretty low notes....
02:27:22 <Fiora> 700hz isn't *that* low is it?
02:27:49 <zzo38> 700Hz is less than one octave above the middle "A" 440 Hz.
02:28:02 <zzo38> Please stop banning [DATA EXPUNGED].
02:28:11 <Bike> yeah i guess it's audible (i keep wanting to say "edible", wtf)
02:28:23 <madbr> does it have harmonics?
02:28:41 <zzo38> I think it would be too big to eat
02:28:45 <Fiora> om nom nom neutronium!!
02:28:45 <Bike> madbr: multiple pulsars do, i guess
02:29:03 <Fiora> really though eating pulsars sounds like a bad idea >_< I'd gain too much weight
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02:29:32 <elliott> I think if you end up eating pulsars you probably have bigger problems to worry about.
02:29:40 <Bike> like red giants!
02:30:03 <Fiora> "gosh, you're so fat that you're barely bigger than your schwarzchild radius"
02:31:16 <Bike> > let palin str star fin = if fin < star then True else (str !! star == str !! fin) && palin str (1 + star) (fin - 1) in palin "amanaplanacanalpanama" 0 (length "amanaplanacanalpanama") -- the worst haskell
02:31:17 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.(!!): index too large
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02:32:06 <Bike> oh, obvious too. oh well.
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02:33:48 <Sgeo> http://activeworlds.com/ go to Community, click Forums, facepalm
02:34:06 <Sgeo> People in the AW group on FB are begging to redo the site
02:34:20 <Sgeo> Also: downloads1
02:36:09 <Bike> > let palin str star fin = if fin < star then True else (str !! star == str !! fin) && palin str (1 + star) (fin - 1) in palin "amanaplanacanalpanama" 0 ((length "amanaplanacanalpanama") - 1)
02:36:14 <kmc> the whole site looks like a time machine to 2003
02:36:22 <Bike> > let palin str star fin = if fin < star then True else (str !! star == str !! fin) && palin str (1 + star) (fin - 1) in palin "fuck" 0 ((length "fuck") - 1)
02:38:10 <Bike> http://valerieaurora.org/hash.html oh, always nice to see her doin stuff
02:38:26 <Sgeo> kmc: this version of the site is new circa today
02:38:51 <Bike> when you put 'em all in a box like that it makes one doubt their existence, really...
02:38:52 <zzo38> madbr: Have you entered/downloaded this Famicompo?
02:39:02 <Fiora> Bike: yeah, that was a cool read
02:39:36 <madbr> was busy with other stuff :/
02:39:42 <Bike> lol at the "non-expert" column.
02:39:50 <Bike> "Long semi-mathematical posts comparing the complexity of the attack to the number of protons in the universe"
02:40:25 <Fiora> Bike: that was like, the best part of the page
02:40:44 <kmc> yeah the chart at the bottom is great
02:41:09 <Bike> Update Pokemon wikipedia pages
02:41:38 <Fiora> is there some reason why people don't like using crypto-based hash stuff, like whirlpool I guess is AES, right?
02:41:57 <Fiora> or is that "less secure" than AES itself?
02:42:13 <kmc> I don't know
02:42:18 <kmc> but yes join ##crypto, it's good
02:42:35 <kmc> you can also do the opposite -- use a hash function as a symmetric cipher, with a CTR-like construction
02:42:44 <Bike> so who here thinks one-way functions exist, now i'm curious
02:43:22 <kmc> this is explicitly how Salsa20 works, and I don't know of any reason it wouldn't be safe with SHA-256 or your other cryptographic hash of choice, but nobody is willing to say that it is safe, either
02:43:38 <kmc> Bike: I believe that God is a troll and so probably whether one-way functions exist is independent of the axioms of ZFC, or something
02:43:57 <Sgeo> One way functions exist! (*0)
02:43:58 <Bike> i don't think ZFC is that relevant to P=NP though
02:44:09 <kmc> that's what they always say
02:44:24 <Fiora> I kind of like the Heuristica world
02:44:33 <Bike> which one was that again
02:44:38 <zzo38> What are your opinions about the rule in snooker where you have to try hard to hit the ball?
02:44:48 <Fiora> ummm what was the guy's name
02:44:54 <kmc> Zermelo-Fraenkel, writing the words to a sermon that no-one will hear
02:44:54 <Fiora> ilpalagio something?
02:44:55 <shachaf> i like salsa20 because it's simple even though maybe i should probably care less about simplicity and more about being tested
02:44:55 <Sgeo> I don't think I've heard of snooker, is it pool related?
02:45:14 <Bike> Fiora: i remember the paper, not which one heuristica was is all.
02:45:22 <elliott> dlerimpf: you really should drop the telling people they're off-topic thing.
02:45:48 <kmc> it involves putting balls into holes using sticks
02:45:57 <Fiora> "heuristica" is the one where NP problems are easy on average, but hard in the worst case, and I think (not sure?) that it's like, it's actually NP-hard /to find a hard instance of an NP problem/
02:45:58 <kmc> I guess golf is also like snooker in that way
02:46:08 <elliott> well I assumed that was why you said "Fiora: ##crypto" but perhaps there is some other meaning I am missing
02:46:55 <dlerimpf> elliott: Does this look like a room filled with people who have great experience with crypto?
02:47:09 <dlerimpf> He will get a better response there
02:47:17 <zzo38> dlerimpf: Some people do.
02:47:27 <Fiora> I think he was just trying to be helpful maybe (?)...
02:47:31 <elliott> anyway right now it looks like a room filled with a bunch of people who know about quite a lot of things and at least one jackass (hint: it's you)
02:47:33 <Bike> Fiora: oh, that one was fun
02:47:40 <dlerimpf> zzo38: Sure, but more people in #crypto
02:47:42 <kmc> elliott: <3
02:47:59 <Bike> Fiora: the cute gauss stories made that paper
02:48:02 <dlerimpf> elliott: Oh, so the person helping someone else is the jackass?
02:48:06 <zzo38> dlerimpf: Yes, that is probably correct
02:48:11 <kmc> hey let's all chill here?
02:48:12 <Fiora> Bike: cute gauss stories?
02:48:17 <kmc> I didn't read what dlerimpf said the same way elliott did
02:48:19 <dlerimpf> zzo38: Ok remind me not to help anyone ever again
02:48:27 <kmc> but dlerimpf your reaction is rather negative
02:48:30 <kmc> so let's chill a bit
02:48:42 <dlerimpf> <elliott> dlerimpf: you really should drop the telling people they're off-topic thing.
02:48:47 <Bike> Fiora: the thing where each of the worlds had an accompanying story about gauss's teacher trying to stump him (based on the "sum of 1..100 thing)
02:48:54 <Bike> um quote in there somewhere
02:49:06 <dlerimpf> I just mentioned a channel name
02:49:11 <kmc> wow you still aren't getting that "he" is not the correct word to use to refer to Fiora
02:49:12 <Fiora> Bike: oh geez, I guess I need to reread this more carefully
02:49:19 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
02:49:42 <Bike> Fiora: reading about what a freak gauss was kind of adds to it. he was in college at 16 or some shit
02:50:29 <zzo38> Is it possible to disable the scroll wheel in PuTTY?
02:50:34 <Fiora> agh, its' a .ps file. how do I read these again
02:50:39 <Sgeo> Ok, AW guy is an asshole
02:50:47 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*7c96346a@*.124.150.52.106.
02:50:47 -!- elliott has kicked dlerimpf look, I gave you a warning. and please don't just get yet another nick in response to this..
02:50:51 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
02:50:56 <zzo38> Fiora: Use a PostScript interpreter (such as GNU GhostScript)?
02:50:56 <Bike> Fiora: evince deals with it, so do foxit and most of the pdf readers probably
02:51:03 <zzo38> elliott: Please stop banning everyone
02:51:09 <Sgeo> Flipped people off (jokingly)... by using a picture of some commentor in the discussion flipping the bird
02:51:25 <Fiora> oh, it looks like this online converter worked
02:51:44 <Bike> that's the spirit. online services for all
02:51:51 <zzo38> (You shouldn't ban yourself either)
02:51:55 <Fiora> "In real life, this led to Grouse's commitment to a lunatic asylum" geeez
02:52:06 <Bike> i think that's a bit exaggerated
02:52:24 <Bike> though i say this as someone who also had an elementary teacher take a break in an asylum. maybe i'm biased
02:53:00 -!- erg0 has joined.
02:53:55 <erg0> How is everyone?
02:54:58 <erg0> Where did dlerimpf go?
02:55:26 <zzo38> erg0: They went away because someone else didn't like them and they got banned and kick
02:55:44 <erg0> For what reason?
02:55:49 <elliott> erg0: ok so like, you've literally never been in this channel before
02:55:59 <elliott> do you have a good argument as to why you are not ban evading
02:56:04 <erg0> elliott: I have been idling here
02:56:18 <oerjan> elliott: ok i was going to say you were a bit harsh banning dlerimpf but when he _immediately_ sockpuppets...
02:56:19 <zzo38> Did you read the logs?
02:56:20 <elliott> no, you haven't. I have logs.
02:56:29 <erg0> elliott: Innocent until proven guilty?
02:56:46 <erg0> I thought that is how law works
02:56:50 <zzo38> You can read the logs without being connected, you know!!!
02:56:50 <shachaf> oerjan: It's not as if this is the first time.
02:56:53 <elliott> oerjan: the ban was also half for him googlestalking shachaf.
02:56:55 <oerjan> erg0: you're already proven guilty to anyone who isn't an idiot hth
02:57:09 <elliott> admittedly I should half-ban shachaf by the same token
02:57:14 <erg0> oerjan: You need actual proof?
02:57:15 <kmc> elliott isn't banning everyone he's banning one person over and over
02:57:19 <zzo38> elliott: You need to be banned from IRC for that?
02:57:33 <Fiora> Bike: oh gosh, the gauss metaphors actually make it make a lot more sense now
02:57:33 <Bike> erg0: grep erg0 irclogs/2013/freenode/#eso*
02:57:38 <erg0> dlerimpf is my friend
02:57:40 <Bike> Fiora: haha yeah
02:57:44 <erg0> He said you banned him
02:57:48 <erg0> I am speaking to him on fb
02:58:12 <erg0> Bike: Not under that nick silly
02:58:14 <zzo38> oerjan: I don't think so. That is hardly sufficient evidence for anything.
02:58:19 <erg0> is my other nick
02:59:18 <Bike> ok well can you ask your friend why they've been spamming this channel with dumbassed quizzes, and ban evading in the most transparent manner imaginable as they do, and generally annoying everybody
02:59:28 <Bike> i mean come on, the nicks all start with 'dl', this isn't a fucking spy ring
02:59:31 <erg0> "If you're considering publishing channel logs, think it through. The freenode network is an interactive environment. Even on public channels, most users don't weigh their comments with the idea that they'll be enshrined in perpetuity. For that reason, few participants publish logs."
02:59:31 <kmc> and getting their friends to come argue with us about it
02:59:37 <Bike> yes, that too.
02:59:43 <zzo38> They aren't dumbassed quizzes and they didn't annoy everyone
02:59:44 <Fiora> and randomly misgendering people for no reason I guess
02:59:50 <erg0> http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
03:00:10 <oerjan> erg0: this channel has had logs since before those guidelines were written hth
03:00:20 <erg0> Bike: That is not sufficient evidence in the court of law
03:00:20 <Bike> also it just says "If you're publishing logs on an ongoing basis, your channel topic should reflect that fact." and i mean.
03:00:26 <Bike> we're not in a court of law, doofus.
03:00:45 <erg0> Bike: So this is not a fair system?
03:00:49 <erg0> IRC is not fair?
03:01:01 <erg0> It is biased towards the OPs
03:01:04 <Bike> No. It's a dictatorship. Report to the GULAG.
03:01:05 <erg0> And the abuse of power
03:01:11 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o kmc.
03:01:15 <zzo38> erg0: I agree it is biased wrong
03:01:19 * Fiora flails her arms it's not faaaiiiiirrr
03:01:24 <Bike> #esoteric reeducation through hard labor
03:01:30 -!- kmc has kicked erg0 erg0.
03:01:36 <oerjan> zzo38: i do not think you have the best intuition on who is obviously trying to troll i'm afraid.
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03:01:45 -!- kmc has kicked erg0 erg0.
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03:01:49 <Fiora> kmc are you having fun
03:01:49 -!- erg0 has joined.
03:01:50 <Bike> kmc i have an idea
03:01:53 -!- kmc has kicked erg0 erg0.
03:01:57 -!- erg0 has joined.
03:02:10 -!- kmc has set channel mode: +b *!*@ec2-107-22-99-160.compute-1.amazonaws.com.
03:02:12 -!- kmc has kicked erg0 erg0.
03:02:31 <kmc> now they'll have to buy a second EC2 instance to troll us
03:02:33 <Bike> haha, well, almost too bad we didn't get to see the argument where the first amendment of the US constitution applies to elliott
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03:03:14 <shachaf> Hmm, I think I've lost the rest of my sympathy for this person.
03:03:38 <elliott> well I hear they'd already ban-evaded in ##crypto
03:03:46 <Bike> i just noticed that yiyus was actually here while they were claiming to be yiyus
03:04:06 <kmc> shachaf: what in particular changed your mind?
03:05:03 <zzo38> Now erg0 is not connected I tried to send message to them
03:05:18 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlwxLtFQcrY Anyway here's an update on crow/human relations
03:05:40 <shachaf> kmc: I mean the whole past 40 minutes since they joined.
03:06:14 <shachaf> I wasn't sure whether they trolling or not, sincere or not, etc. Now I don't really care.
03:07:16 <zzo38> Make a shadow channel so that banned people can still communicate; since there is the log you can still read this channel, even if you have to reply in shadow channel.
03:08:19 <Fiora> Bike: that's what the crow gets for being part of a murder
03:08:25 <Fiora> (but seriously gosh that was adorable)
03:10:40 <kmc> '"Fake Cops" Robbing Detroit Citizens At Gunpoint Turn Out To Be Real Cops Robbing Citizens At Gunpoint'
03:12:34 <Bike> well at least they were actually arrested instead of some bullshit blue line situation
03:13:52 -!- zzo38 has left.
03:14:07 <kmc> Bike: arrested sure, convicted?
03:14:28 <Bike> i only just googled it and got some shady looking news site though, didn't really look at it >_
03:15:51 <oerjan> <Bike> ok well can you ask your friend why they've been spamming this channel with dumbassed quizzes, and ban evading in the most transparent manner imaginable as they do [...] <-- fwiw the nick changes had nothing to do with getting banned here, which i don't think he's been until today.
03:16:47 <Bike> you think dlerimpf and dlackili are unrelated?
03:18:08 <kmc> they both suck and are gone
03:20:11 <doesthiswork> hey! I'm not going to just sit here while you say mean things about me
03:20:56 <Bike> we'll have to set up a court to see if you're innocent
03:21:28 <Fiora> let us see if he weighs the same as a duck
03:22:01 <doesthiswork> ban someone, if they come back they are a troll
03:22:47 <Bike> nine out of nine dentists agree
03:23:05 <doesthiswork> I look like a duck and I quack like a duck then I am in the same equvilancy class as a duck
03:23:20 <Sgeo> 9 out of 10 sociopaths agree...
03:24:02 <Bike> are you calling dentists sociopaths
03:24:18 <elliott> obviously one of the sociopaths was not a dentist.
03:24:25 <shachaf> choice [c <$ char c | c <- ...]
03:24:32 <Bike> right but which
03:24:44 <elliott> we just established doesthiswork isn't a witch, Bike.
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03:25:12 <doesthiswork> obviously one of the codentists is not a cosociopath
03:27:08 <shachaf> kmc: should rust use maximal munch syntax for unicode escapes, like haskell
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04:08:56 <zzo38> Does any of you want to enter Z-Comp? Maybe you should try.
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04:13:59 <zzo38> shachaf: A competition to write Z-machine games.
04:14:11 <zzo38> There are three themes every time it is on.
04:16:14 <zzo38> Z-Comp is actually a room in ifMUD, although there are IF Wiki article and Intfiction forum message about it too.
04:17:03 <zzo38> Do you know how to make a chess variant based on INTERCAL?
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04:24:33 <zzo38> Nobody has entered Z-Comp yet so I hope someone should do so.
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08:26:46 <Taneb> `slist Dirk and ARquis
08:26:52 <HackEgo> slist Dirk and ARquis: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
08:28:29 <shachaf> Taneb: Did you start reading `olist?
08:28:37 <Taneb> > ap(==)reverse "amanaplanacanalpanama"
08:34:30 <fizzie> `pastlog A man, a plan, a canoe
08:34:37 <HackEgo> 2013-05-19.txt:17:18:40: <FreeFull> > reverse "A man, a plan, a canoe, pasta, heros, rajahs, a coloratura, maps, snipe, percale, macaroni, a gag, a banana bag, a tan, a tag, a banana bag again (or a camel), a crepe, pins, Spam, a rut, a Rolo, cash, a jar, sore hats, a peon, a canal – Panama!"
08:36:25 <fizzie> > (ap (==) reverse . filter isAlpha . map toLower) "A man, a plan, a canoe, pasta, heros, rajahs, a coloratura, maps, snipe, percale, macaroni, a gag, a banana bag, a tan, a tag, a banana bag again (or a camel), a crepe, pins, Spam, a rut, a Rolo, cash, a jar, sore hats, a peon, a canal – Panama!"
08:38:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
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08:46:56 <shachaf> > (ap (==) reverse . filter isAlpha . map toLower) "A manap, lanac, a noep, astaher, osra, jahs, acolor, a tur, a maps, snip, eper, Cale, mac, a roni, a gagab, a nanab, a gatanatag, a ban, a nab, a gaga in Oracam, elacre, pepins, spa, Maru, tar, Oloca, shajars, ore, hatsap, eon, a can, Alpa, nama!"
08:48:49 <fizzie> Trust a shachaf to be all about shajars.
08:49:36 <shachaf> fizzie: p. sure my version is better
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10:37:10 <fizzie> "At an international peace summit, matrix dimensions have finally reached agreement. The peace treaty ends a bitter feud that has ruined the lives of tens of thousands of programmers for years. As part of the peace agreements, indices from both parties will be allowed to exceed matrix dimensions for the first time in recorded history.
10:37:16 <fizzie> The agreement comes as a surprise to many. Recently, tempers flared when it was discovered that only square matrices were allowed to be raised to a power, leading to unrest among many N-by-M matrices. Previous attempts to broker peace, including widespread transposition, proved only occasionally successful.
10:37:21 <fizzie> Commentators have responded enthusiastically to the news: ‘%This is a great day for everyone, regardless of their nrows or ncols. No longer will the tyrannical constraints of matrix agreement, that have left thousands of matrices sparse for life, be allowed to rule our sloppy programming’."
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10:57:58 <CADD> fizzie++ that was great!
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11:07:33 <Jafet> These "summits" never provide real solutions to the high tensors that result from map contractions, physical displacements and the like.
11:16:09 <fizzie> It was from http://collectivelyunconscious.wordpress.com/ where pretty much all the posts are of similar ilk.
11:16:39 <fizzie> "Controversial trial will provide free polymerase to junk DNA", "Animal rights activists outraged by infinite monkey experiment", "Scientists receive 12.6 million dollar grant to format references correctly", and so on.
11:17:57 <Jafet> The last one sounds plausible
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11:18:18 <fizzie> "In this time of budget cuts, this grant really is a fantastic opportunity. It allows us to spend most of our time on what is every scientists’ true passion: abiding by arbitrary formatting restrictions and figure formatting guidelines that mostly made sense when the printing press had just been invented."
11:20:16 <Jafet> Conferences should just take latex documents
11:20:40 <Jafet> PStricks -- auto reject
11:21:13 <fizzie> The "Neural Correlates of Claustrofobia still a mystery" post was a funny one too.
11:21:26 <fizzie> [[ Fifty severely claustrophobic participants were asked to lie motionless in a small, confined, dark, cramped space with a giant magnet surrounding their body and head, but the methods section of the conference abstract notes that “No participants were included in the final analysis”.
11:21:32 <fizzie> Team leader Randall Thompson is disappointed by the lack of results. “It’s a pity that all our participants ran away screaming before the first scan, because we didn’t even get to the experimental manipulation: Showing them videos of collapsing caves, the insides of coffins and stalled elevators. ]]
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13:00:20 <Taneb> Aaaah suddenly I am cleanshaven
13:00:22 -!- boily has joined.
13:01:58 <boily> good weird morning!
13:02:14 -!- metasepia has joined.
13:02:15 <Taneb> boily, context: I've just shaved
13:02:31 <boily> with what kind of razor?
13:04:37 <boily> aaaah, stil on the motorised side of the shave.
13:05:05 <boily> I haven't made the switch yet either. I'm happy with my PT925, with soap and lube vaporisers.
13:05:17 <boily> (those two make a real difference. no burn!)
13:06:07 <Taneb> I don't get a burn with my shaver dry
13:06:11 <Taneb> But that may just be me
13:07:07 <boily> my skin is of subpar quality. that's canadian manufacturing for you...
13:07:30 <Taneb> I have finest Dutch skin
13:07:40 <Taneb> Assembled in the UK
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13:17:52 <Taneb> My free trial period on BazQuux has expired :(
13:21:38 <Taneb> On the other hand, I just found some biscuits
13:22:02 <Taneb> On the other other hand, the biscuits have gone soft and taste awful
13:22:36 <fizzie> On the tiny hand, "BazQuux" sounds kinda like "biscuits".
13:24:04 <boily> on the æon hand, particle man.
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13:55:38 <nooodl> cute: wolfram alpha can parse 3^3^3^3^3^3, but not 3^3^3^3^3
13:56:03 <Taneb> But can it parse the meaning of love?
13:56:23 <nooodl> i had to input log_3(3^3^3^3^3^3)...
13:57:32 <Taneb> Does (3^3^3^3^3) work?
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13:59:25 <nooodl> also 3^3^3^3 works but 3^(3^3^3^3) doesn't
14:05:45 <boily> what about 3↑↑↑↑3?
14:11:48 <Jafet> http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/93222/is-22-7-equal-to-the-pi-constant
14:12:01 <Jafet> "No, pi is not equal to $22/7$."
14:16:35 <Bike> Jafet: why did that go from "it's not rational" to "it's transcendental" like that
14:20:34 <Jafet> % 22/7 - Integrate[(x^4 * (1 - x)^4)/(1 + x^2), {x, 0, 1}]
14:52:42 <boily> ah? we have a bot bound to «"»? tmyk...
14:53:44 <boily> meh. I'm feeling very queasy here, walking ASCII and flooding the channel.
14:54:16 <boily> Jafet: you are not a bot. repress your metallic side and follow the way of the meatbag.
14:56:34 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ), blsqbot !
14:56:55 <EgoBot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot !
14:56:59 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot !
14:57:02 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
14:57:09 <elliott> boily: major bug in your bot here
14:57:38 <boily> I know. my bot is becoming more and more outdated. even my coworkers are putting pressure on me to update it.
14:58:05 * boily reassures metasepia "don't worry, I'll update you... who's a good bot? who's a good bot? yes you are"
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15:58:38 <fizzie> fungot: Are you a good bot too?
15:58:38 <fungot> fizzie: like 216? i think that's what the antichrist is supposed to be
16:00:17 <fizzie> Antichrist: the best bot.
16:23:52 <kmc> shachaf: probably not
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16:35:35 <olsner> I wonder if ὄχλος from http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ochlocracy is the oklo in oklopol
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16:38:26 <olsner> fungot: what do you think?
16:38:26 <fungot> olsner: ( which x is in the standardization surrounding what's done with the 10000versary. sorry, this is only meant for system errors
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16:42:25 <fizzie> fungot: Always as helpful.
16:42:25 <fungot> fizzie: hardly. infix operators are much simpler to deobfuscate than that
16:42:26 -!- Bike has joined.
16:46:09 <kmc> awesome, Rust has a case where x == y is fine but y == x is a type error
16:46:40 <shachaf> Better than a runtime error.
16:50:20 <kmc> auto-dereference only applies on one side of ==, so if you do let x: ~str = ...; then "foo" == x works but x == "foo" doesn't
16:50:48 <fizzie> Is "~str" pronounced "worm-string"?
16:50:49 <kmc> the type of "foo" is &'static str (best language ever??)
16:50:55 <kmc> fizzie: I hope so
16:51:06 <shachaf> That reminds me of std::string behavior in C++.
16:51:16 <kmc> which bit?
16:51:19 <olsner> doesn't that lead to backwards comparisons? "if foo is string" etc
16:57:31 <zzo38> Rust might be pretty good due to having macros.
16:57:34 <shachaf> Well, I guess the C++ thing isn't really the same. You can have both "s" == x or x == "s", just not e.g. "s" == "t".
16:57:36 <zzo38> But, I don't know.
16:58:04 <shachaf> And it's for a different reason anyway.
16:58:16 <zzo38> I like the macros and some of the other features of BLISS.
16:59:18 <shachaf> kmc: People aren't keeping the Rust spec up to date. :-(
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17:04:09 <boily> random generic question: do anyone of y'all have experience with openerp?
17:04:44 <olsner> that's not ERP as in enterprise resource planning, is it?
17:05:00 <kmc> shachaf: there's a Rust spec?
17:05:15 <boily> olsner: I... um... eh... well...
17:05:30 <fizzie> boily: "Aren't you afraid you'll catch something?"
17:06:15 <shachaf> Well, http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/rust.html
17:06:20 <fizzie> Lerp, short for linear ERP-olation.
17:06:38 <kmc> shachaf: oh, that. no, it's not up to date
17:06:41 <shachaf> Not exactly a spec, but it's apparently full of mistakes and people aren't keeping it up to date.
17:06:43 <boily> fizzie: bah, humbug.
17:06:58 <kmc> apparently the precedence of 'as' is in between + and *
17:07:30 <kmc> due to people being confused about the precedence and modifying the compiler as a solution
17:08:22 <fizzie> Is the predence of & lower than == so that a & 0xff == 42 is a & (0xff == 42), like in C, too?
17:09:01 <boily> there should be a language where the precedence of ( is different from )'s precedence.
17:14:08 <Gregor> <shachaf> kmc: People aren't keeping the Rust spec up to date. :-( // The best way to keep up to date with Rust is to chat with Mozilla folks at conferences ;)
17:14:58 <Gregor> @tell oerjan Because somebody asked for it.
17:14:59 -!- jsvine has joined.
17:15:50 <Gregor> I'm not here you don't see me ._.
17:16:14 * boily blindfolds himself
17:16:22 <kmc> Gregor: I just got back from the weekly Rust design meeting with the core team; I think that might be better ;)
17:16:25 <boily> now I can't not see you, therefore you're there.
17:16:35 <Gregor> kmc: I should hope so!
17:17:32 <olsner> kmc: arguably that constitutes chatting with Mozilla folks at a conference
17:17:41 <elliott> Gregor: who asked for the dreadful colour
17:17:45 <elliott> assuming this is about the colour
17:17:47 <kmc> a video conference :)
17:18:04 <Gregor> elliott: It is, and I shall refrain from specifying to protect the guilty.
17:18:20 <elliott> Gregor: spill the beans. they need a slap.
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17:18:31 <Gregor> Honestly, I no longer recall.
17:18:51 <elliott> how about make the log background hot pink next
17:18:57 <elliott> everyone gets to choose a colour for a while right
17:19:40 <elliott> deadly serious here. bring on the pink logs
17:20:18 <Gregor> elliott: Thanks for the suggestion, done.
17:20:34 <elliott> i dig this a lot more than the grey
17:20:47 <elliott> though the timestamps are a little hard to see
17:21:11 <fizzie> The red hilight of the selected comment is pretty nice on the pink.
17:22:26 <boily> what the AAAAAAAAARGH!
17:22:49 <elliott> Gregor: what inspired the choice of yellow
17:23:35 <Gregor> It's actually lime green, supposedly.
17:23:46 <elliott> it looks yellow on the pink
17:24:29 <elliott> Gregor: i bet those #ai people are like what the FUCK is up with our logs
17:24:34 <Gregor> No, it looks yellow to me too.
17:24:45 <elliott> well your sense of taste is broken
17:24:47 <elliott> so maybe your sight is too
17:25:01 <Gregor> But I'm wearing glasses.
17:25:07 <Gregor> Therefore my sense of sight is REPAIRED.
17:25:27 <doesthiswork> perhaps our eyes are blending the text color with the background color
17:25:29 <elliott> http://codu.org/logs/log/_weaaM/2013-05-08 what the heck
17:26:03 <Gregor> elliott: Idonno, somebody must have invited it.
17:28:07 <zzo38> I suppose you could also disable the color on the client, or use the raw log file
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17:41:33 <fizzie> Eyes are liars. (E.g. if you put on red-filter glasses, everything looks red initially, but after a minute or so things will start turning yellow.)
17:42:37 <zzo38> Isn't it your mind that turns yellow?
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17:49:50 <doesthiswork> zzo38: we don't need to devolve into hofsteader like conversation here.
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18:05:42 <Vorpal> <Gregor> No, it looks yellow to me too. <-- what looks yellow?
18:06:00 <Gregor> Vorpal: Sorry, I already put it back to normal ;)
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18:07:57 <fizzie> I missed it too, but if I "Inspect-Element" the text to "lime" and background to "pink", it looks green to me. (Though I think this pink is not as pink.)
18:07:58 <elliott> the grey was there for weeks and you give me like an hour
18:08:15 <Lymia> http://paste.strictfp.com/38747
18:08:17 <Lymia> I hate Java programmers
18:08:54 <Gregor> I hate AbstractFactoryWorkerListQueueFactoryIterators
18:08:57 <Vorpal> Lymia, looks like pretty standard java
18:09:11 <Vorpal> Not sure why it is a singleton
18:09:32 <fizzie> Vorpal: I'm sure it's for efficiency.
18:09:39 <elliott> our topic is so noisy right now
18:09:42 <fizzie> Can't be having lots of memory allocation for all those exceptions.
18:09:43 <Lymia> Why is the static final instance private with an accesser?
18:09:56 <Lymia> public final class ChecksumException extends ReaderException { public static final ChecksumException instance = new ChecksumException(); }
18:10:11 <fizzie> Lymia: So that you can "change" the "implementation".
18:10:12 <elliott> was the tunes link there because of glogbot outages or such?
18:10:18 <Lymia> In fact, looking at the library, this is a rare case.
18:10:23 <Lymia> public final class ChecksumException extends ReaderException { }
18:10:34 <fizzie> Lymia: Maybe later you'll want to make it a doubleton instead; it's good to have a getter.
18:10:55 <metasepia> A pair of cards that are the only ones of their suit in a hand dealt to a player.
18:11:28 <fizzie> boily: It's this thing where you have two of the objects, and you return either of them e.g. in a round-robin manner, or based on the low bit of the thread id, or something.
18:12:43 -!- elliott has set topic: Life's just a mood ring we're not allowed to see | 22nd IOCCC opens August 1: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | jsvine is doing an esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q/viewform | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
18:12:47 <boily> uhm... sounds like a weird proxy mashup for remote distributed resources.
18:12:52 <zzo38> doesthiswork: Are you sure you don't? Well, OK, then
18:13:01 <fizzie> boily: I just made it up. But I'm sure it exists.
18:13:52 <boily> fizzie: the more I think about it, the more it sounds like a good ol' regular object pool. you just have the kiddie version with a doubleton.
18:14:11 <fizzie> boily: Well, kiddie pools are quite popular.
18:14:14 <boily> (and that thing about the thread ID lsb is devious enough to be accepted general best practice)
18:14:37 <boily> fizzie: I have good memories of splashing in a backyard when I was a wee one.
18:15:23 <doesthiswork> zzo38: We don't /need/ to. If you want to, then you can talk about whatever self referential sillyness you wish.
18:16:53 <zzo38> doesthiswork: Well, I have nothing else to write about such thing either at this time.
18:17:58 <zzo38> I like that kind of things
18:18:19 <shachaf> zzo38: You should make zzo38computer.org navigable via http.
18:18:49 <zzo38> shachaf: No, I don't want to, at this time. If you know the filename then you can access it.
18:19:03 <shachaf> zzo38: But I don't know the filename.
18:19:18 <zzo38> (The HTTP isn't organized well enough that I could even add a navigation in a reasonable way)
18:19:30 <shachaf> zzo38: Maybe you can just run some sort of HTTP->gopher gateway?
18:19:40 <shachaf> So people without gopher clients can look around.
18:19:49 <zzo38> No, I don't want to, I don't want any spam messages on.
18:21:18 <shachaf> adjunctions library: Adjunctions
18:22:54 <zzo38> There is a few files that is writable and I don't want a lot of people to put a spam message (since spambots are usually HTTP and SMTP) Also it can try to somewhat encourage to install (or, more preferably, to write) a gopher client.
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18:29:37 <HackEgo> aoeu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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18:30:53 <fizzie> #esoteric: scaring off newcomers since [insert year].
18:31:59 <Bike> imo if they can't take it they're weak
18:33:02 <zzo38> Bike: I suppose so.
18:33:06 <kmc> kiddie pools and doubletons o_O
18:34:00 <shachaf> zzo38: You can make a read-only kind of gateway.
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18:34:19 <shachaf> I don't care about writing. I just want to see the Content.
18:34:42 <shachaf> Also I tried multiple gopher clients and none of them worked with your server.
18:37:23 <Gracenotes> what the hell is the other kind of esoterica, anyway
18:37:39 <shachaf> Gracenotes: try #esoteric on irc.dahl.net.
18:37:52 <Gracenotes> connect to a server other than freenode? you are crazed
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18:39:18 <zzo38> shachaf: Some of them have a bug, but you can try using the "root" selector string instead of an empty one if that helps. (Also, every client I have tried does work.)
18:40:07 <shachaf> I'd rather use my web browser.
18:40:59 <zzo38> You can install Overbite if you are using Firefox.
18:41:10 <zzo38> (I know that one works.)
18:41:55 <shachaf> And I don't like installing firefox extensions anymore.
18:43:36 <zzo38> If you have netcat, you can easily download a file from any gopher server using that too; there are no headers so to download a file you just echo selector_string | nc example.org 70 > program.txt or whatever; if you have UNIX you can easily make something like this, if you don't want to install anything else.
18:44:43 <Vorpal> zzo38, what if you are on a phone or tablet?
18:44:46 <fizzie> shachaf: How about the existing general-purpose gopher gateways you use with a browser? Wouldn't one of those work?
18:44:52 <Vorpal> zzo38, I don't know any android gropher client?
18:45:56 <zzo38> fizzie: No, they are blocked. You can create a private gateway if you want, though.
18:46:04 <fizzie> zzo38: At least http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/ seems to work for zzo38computer.org -- based on a sample of N=1 files.
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18:46:17 <shachaf> fizzie: Great, now he'll block it.
18:46:21 <zzo38> fizzie: Yes, that one works.
18:46:34 <fizzie> shachaf: Just doing my duty here.
18:46:42 <zzo38> And no I won't block that one for a few reasons, one being their policy for search engines and another being Veronica.
18:48:25 <shachaf> Except really slow. Not sure which thing is being slow.
18:48:40 <fizzie> "Also, to reduce abuse of Floodgap's seriously overloaded DSL uplink, the datalink is rate limited --"
18:48:40 <zzo38> However, using it isn't recommended if you have another way, and it is recommended to get another way please!
18:49:08 <Vorpal> I can't imagine that many people use it
18:49:15 <Vorpal> Who cares about gopher
18:49:23 <fizzie> Vorpal: I think zzo38 does.
18:49:27 <zzo38> Vorpal: There is Overbite for Android too I think, although you have to download it from their webpage you cannot use the app store. Last time I checked (someone else installed it on their device; I don't have one) it has a bug causing it to sometimes cut off the last character of a line. (It is completely unrelated to the Overbite Firefox extension)
18:49:44 <fizzie> Vorpal: The people who maintain Floodgap, I think.
18:50:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, okay, but not many people apart from those. A handful of enthusiasts
18:50:10 <zzo38> There are many other gopher servers too I think; at least 100.
18:50:33 <Vorpal> There are probably billions of HTTP servers
18:50:47 <zzo38> Still it isn't extremely common, but you do find it used sometimes.
18:51:02 <zzo38> Telnet servers may be more common then gopher servers, though.
18:51:03 <shachaf> fizzie: Hmm, it seems not to show titles or something?
18:51:08 <Vorpal> Rarely. You and floodgap are the only ones I know
18:51:13 <shachaf> E.g. take one of the quizzes at http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/1quiz.menu*b
18:51:28 <Vorpal> zzo38, most likely. A lot of routers and such have telnet interfaces for debugging
18:51:48 <Vorpal> I know my netgear router does
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18:52:09 <zzo38> Vorpal: Although I mean telnet services on the internet, such as ASCII Star Wars, Synchronet BBS systems, etc
18:53:29 <fizzie> shachaf: That would appear to be true.
18:53:44 <fizzie> shachaf: Well, you get a combination of a quiz and a Jeopardy session with the same price.
18:54:05 <shachaf> zzo38: gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/1external/humor looks like it has a broken link.
18:54:18 <boily> according to the Voice of Zzo38, I'm an epic nerd.
18:54:55 <zzo38> boily: I didn't write that one about epic nerd.
18:55:34 <zzo38> shachaf: Correct; I will remove it. I do have a mirror of those files anyways.
18:56:23 <zzo38> shachaf: Thank you for notifying me; I fixed it.
18:58:00 <zzo38> If you have Windows, or some way of compiling a VB6 program that uses Windows API and other features, in your computer, then you can try VisGopher.
18:58:09 <boily> so, according to the Voice of the Voice of Zzo38, I'm still an epic nerd.
18:59:02 <zzo38> boily: Yes, OK, that is it, I suppose.
19:01:28 <zzo38> No, it had an error in it; it works now.
19:01:38 <zzo38> Refresh the results page.
19:02:24 <zzo38> It might say something else now, possibly.
19:02:51 <boily> but, but... I like being a nerd.
19:03:12 <boily> and I can live until 70! (bleh)
19:03:30 <zzo38> These quizzes aren't very accurate.
19:03:55 <zzo38> And if you don't like the new result then try changing the selector string and see what happens...
19:04:17 <Vorpal> Why do so many splash screens insist on showing up centered on the entire of the desktop, as opposed centered onto a physical monitor...
19:04:29 <zzo38> (I got -135 (epic nerd) on the corrected one)
19:04:52 <shachaf> zzo38: Why is Tides empty?
19:05:42 <zzo38> shachaf: The tides program stopped working for some reason. I could remove that option until I am able to fix it.
19:06:14 <metasepia> CYUL 301800Z 21016KT 30SM BKN040 BKN090 22/14 A3008 RMK CU5AC1 TCU ASOCTD SLP185 DENSITY ALT 700FT
19:06:29 <boily> zzo38: looks like you draw from the same source as I.
19:07:47 <shachaf> boily: Can metasepia get Internet Quiz Engine support?
19:09:05 <boily> to quote the Great Locomotive of Ancient Times: I think I can.
19:09:15 <zzo38> I don't know how well you can do Internet Quiz Engine in IRC.
19:09:25 <zzo38> If you do, though, I prefer you run a local copy if you can.
19:09:25 <boily> everything's ircable.
19:09:47 <boily> of course I'll run a local copy. I need to have my own obscure quizzes.
19:10:29 <zzo38> The source-code is available and you are free to modify it if you want to, as well, although I would like it if you would share any modifications you might make.
19:12:14 <shachaf> Why do you say "source-code" here but "source codes" in the Gopher menus?
19:13:09 <zzo38> Because I am not a computer program.
19:20:52 <kmc> are you sure?
19:21:51 <boily> let's use SCIENCE!
19:23:07 <boily> zzo38: do you conduct electricity? do you believe in determinism? how do you feel about brownouts?
19:26:24 <Bike> are there people that don't condut electricity
19:27:02 <boily> I should have been clearer: conduct electricity significantly better than the average.
19:27:20 <metasepia> NZSP 301750Z 02011KT 3200 IC BR OVC015 M61/ A2806 RMK CLN AIR 01013KT ALL WNDS GRID
19:27:42 <Vorpal> I forgot what BR stands for
19:28:01 <Vorpal> Anyway that is quite cold
19:28:15 <Bike> all winds are in a grid pattern. good.
19:28:21 <boily> METARs are weird. they have French abbreviations mixed in.
19:29:09 <Vorpal> Bike, I think that means it is not using the standard coordinate system with heading. Since that makes no bloody sense at the south pole, which is what NZSP is
19:29:38 <boily> I think it goes with the base, or territory, or stuff.
19:34:59 <metasepia> ESSA 301920Z 29012KT 3000 -RADZ BKN005 14/14 Q1003 BECMG SCT005 BKN010
19:35:38 <ion> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1jd005/we_are_engineers_and_scientists_on_the_mars/
19:37:58 <zzo38> kmc: Not 100% sure.
19:37:59 <fizzie> Our bedroom clock temperature-o-meter says 28.2 °C.
19:38:36 <zzo38> boily: I have figure out the resistance can be made using a multimeter on my body though.
19:39:13 <zzo38> If you want to ask me if I believe in determinism then you have to be more specific.
19:39:24 <metasepia> EFHK 301920Z 12009KT 9999 -RA FEW040 BKN120 20/15 Q1009 NOSIG
19:39:52 <zzo38> I haven't checked if I conduct electricity significantly better than average, though.
19:41:28 <elliott> NZSP = new zealand south pole?
19:51:13 <boily> ESSA's weather is horrible; zzo38: I'd say anything below 500 kΩ.
19:51:45 <metasepia> CYUL 301900Z 25012G18KT 30SM SCT040TCU BKN090 24/14 A3007 RMK TCU4AC1 SLP182 DENSITY ALT 900FT
19:52:00 <boily> incoming storms! :D :D :D
19:55:37 <boily> meh. the TAF says nothing. :(
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20:53:47 <elliott> Gregor: quick put the log colours back for oerjan
20:57:26 <oerjan> i'm using the txt version, anyhow
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20:59:54 <oerjan> my mind boggles at what kind of people prefer that color scheme, though.
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21:00:31 <oerjan> "annoying, but with honor" eh? :P
21:01:01 <elliott> oerjan: no no, I meant the *other* colour scheme.
21:01:10 <elliott> the non-.txt logs are back to boring black on white now.
21:01:22 <elliott> but they were briefly lime green on hot pink.
21:01:27 <elliott> it was much better than the grey
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21:11:52 <zzo38> If you don't need colors then make it not specify the color so that it will use the color in the client,
21:14:56 <oerjan> zzo38: the problem is my browser only allows turning off style entirely. when i do that the formatted logs become indistinguishable from the txt ones.
21:16:43 <oerjan> or did you mean for the website to do that, in which case i agree.
21:19:54 <boily> the best colour mixes are two different hues with the same L in the L*a*b* colourspace.
21:20:16 <fizzie> This has not been the season for batteries here. First there was that explomesseak in the remote control, and now it turns out the + terminal of one of the rechargeable AAAs has turned green, and (even after scraping it off) is having contact problems w.r.t. the charger.
21:20:39 <oerjan> boily: if i had any idea what that meant...
21:21:44 <zzo38> If you do need colors then you should specify both the foreground and background colors on the webpage. If you don't, then specify neither; you can still use other formatting such as italic, bold, emphasis, tables, superscripts, etc
21:22:32 <fizzie> boily: Only if all your observers are CIE standard observers.
21:22:56 <boily> fizzie: bah. D65 should do the work for most of us.
21:23:31 <elliott> can I get certified as a CIE standard observer?
21:24:29 <boily> the New Elliobserver.
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21:29:21 <fizzie> I think you can get a generic tabular observer and then just configure it with the CIE tables.
21:29:29 <fizzie> (Note that the tables are like 1931s science.)
21:30:05 <fizzie> Oh. Well... I'm sure you can replace them with suitable electronics soon.
21:30:12 <Taneb> You can not believe your eyes, how the whole world is filth and lies
21:30:24 <Taneb> And it's plain to see, that evil inside of me...
21:30:33 <Taneb> is on the riii~iii~iiise
21:31:30 * boily whips Taneb with a toast stapped to a watergun
21:32:02 <Taneb> That's... slightly...
21:33:30 <boily> strapped. strapped, says I.
21:34:09 <Taneb> Is the toast strapped to the watergun, or are you?
21:34:52 <boily> the toast. it is strapped to the watergun.
21:38:45 * oerjan sics a purple people eater on boily and Taneb
21:39:10 * boily hides behind Taneb
21:39:18 <Taneb> How did oerjan even get a purple people eater
21:39:21 <shachaf> boily, Taneb: Don't worry, you are't purple people.
21:39:25 <Taneb> What even is a purple people eater
21:40:15 <oerjan> Taneb: it is attracted to ambiguous grammar use
21:40:31 <boily> I must say, Taneb is a very good cover.
21:40:39 <oerjan> oh wait, is that ambiguous (grammar use) or (ambiguous grammar) use
21:40:57 <Taneb> oerjan, I think they are equivalent
21:41:11 <shachaf> If it's ambiguous, is it even a grammar?
21:41:55 <shachaf> oerjan: Then why did you need to sic [sic] it?
21:41:59 <oerjan> shachaf: certainly. in fact it's a nice theorem that it's undecidable whether a grammar is unambiguous.
21:42:28 <oerjan> shachaf: well i had to point out the grammar to it, of course
21:44:27 <oerjan> now it's time for a buffalo buffalo buffalo stampede
21:51:17 <oerjan> shachaf: did you know that an earley parser parses general grammars in O(n^3) time, unambiguous grammars in O^(n^2) time and (almost all) LR(k) grammars in O(n) time?
21:52:34 <shachaf> how earley are we talking? late 1960s?
21:54:19 <shachaf> oerjan: parsers are one of those things i don't know nearly enough about :'(
21:56:58 <kmc> shachaf: hm I likewise don't know much about parsers, but I have unusually little curiosity about them
21:57:26 <kmc> not sure why exactly
21:57:59 <tswett> So I guess Philip Wadler has completely figured linear logic out.
21:58:05 <shachaf> kmc: this is also my situation (though i'm p. sure you know more than i do on the topic)
21:58:13 <oerjan> i had a kind of parser fascination period i think
21:58:27 <oerjan> tswett: wait, recently?
21:58:28 <kmc> iow I feel I know "enough" about parsers
21:58:45 <shachaf> but then sometimes people say "p. cool parser things" and i don't have the background to properly appreciate them or something
21:59:09 <shachaf> i don't know "enough" about parsers. i feel like i "ought" to know more
21:59:51 <zzo38> There is other ambiguous sentence some people have written in here such as "I saw the man on the hill with the telescope" and the other one I wrote "Charities for poor people and monsters with names starting with 'A'" and there are others too I suppose
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22:00:54 <kmc> yeah given infinite time attention etc. i would of course want to know more
22:01:52 <oerjan> Abject Allosaurus Association
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22:02:49 <oerjan> i think most of the allosauri may be Alliterating, too
22:03:18 <tswett> oerjan: I don't know when.
22:03:36 <tswett> Not before 1987 but not after 2012.
22:03:51 <oerjan> O KAY THAT NARROWS IT DOWN
22:04:18 <FreeFull> And that's why we don't use English for programming
22:04:50 <Taneb> FreeFull, we use PHP instead
22:05:00 <oerjan> FreeFull: that sentence needs a long anecdote prefixed hth
22:05:45 <oerjan> i think that may be my first hth use today i must be slacking
22:05:47 <lambdabot> I won't; I want to go get some cookies instead.
22:06:07 * lambdabot puts on her slapping gloves, and slaps boily
22:06:20 <lambdabot> I'd rather not; boily looks rather dangerous.
22:06:27 <boily> HA! MWAH AH AH AH AH!
22:06:47 * lambdabot puts on her slapping gloves, and slaps tswett
22:07:10 * lambdabot hits FreeFull with a hammer, so they breaks into a thousand pieces
22:07:48 * lambdabot hits tswett with an assortment of kitchen utensils
22:08:02 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: sequence set-topic shift-topic shootout show slap smack spell spell-all src v @ ? .
22:08:31 * lambdabot throws some pointy lambdas at tswett
22:09:35 * lambdabot is overcome by a sudden desire to hurt dog
22:09:40 * lambdabot smacks FreeFull about with a large trout
22:10:12 <tswett> I like how many different words are, apparently just due to typo correction, equivalent to @slap.
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22:11:27 <tswett> There's @slap, @slam, @snap, @stab, and @smack, and don't forget @slum, @swap, @slim, @slump, @skip, and @slip.
22:11:51 <tswett> Which is to say ¿qué es the joke?, not ¿cuál es the joke?
22:11:59 <shachaf> tswett: No, it only corrects up to two characters' edit distance.
22:12:09 <shachaf> Those aren't all being corrected to @slap.
22:12:55 <tswett> "I understand what you're saying and I have learned something from it".
22:13:14 <tswett> So @smack, in particular, isn't being corrected to @slap.
22:13:55 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
22:14:47 * lambdabot puts on her slapping gloves, and slaps shachaf
22:16:51 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b)
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22:18:22 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm thinking your lambdabot knowledge is outdated hth
22:18:53 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm thinking you're wrong hth
22:19:45 <lambdabot> slap <nick>. Slap someone amusingly.
22:19:48 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
22:19:50 <oerjan> shachaf: um that's 3 edit distance
22:19:54 <elliott> looks like smack is an actual defined alias.
22:20:34 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested).
22:20:35 <oerjan> lambdabot: YOU HAVE FAILED ME
22:22:45 <oerjan> although that means there are even more options
22:23:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
22:23:05 <oerjan> also, can you get lambdabot confused whether you mean slap or smack
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22:29:19 <oerjan> i think if all possibilities are aliases of each other, maybe it should run the command
22:31:43 <oerjan> SOMEONE HAS BEEN DOING STUFF
22:32:11 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
22:32:13 <zzo38> oerjan: I think it should not run the command unless you specify the actual command
22:32:24 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
22:32:51 <oerjan> zzo38: well it is traditional now.
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22:47:44 <shachaf> Bike: advice: don't get into ghc base libraries issues
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23:06:26 <doesthiswork> guys! did you hear? Carl Hewitt proved the consistancy of Mathematics
23:10:48 <zzo38> It is not possible to prove the consistency of mathematics in general, I think.
23:11:07 <doesthiswork> If math was inconsistent there would be both a proof of theorem P and ~P
23:11:21 <zzo38> Well, I suppose that you can prove that it is consistent whether or not it is consistent, but that doesn't mean anything
23:11:45 <Fiora> that proof almost sounds like begging the question <.<
23:11:50 <zzo38> And you cannot prove it within the system either since it doesn't describe everything that is itself and only itself
23:12:11 <zzo38> Therefore the proof doesn't work.
23:12:25 <zzo38> So even if it does prove it consistent, it doesn't prove anything.
23:12:57 <zzo38> Because, is the system you use to prove it consistent or not?
23:14:27 <zzo38> It proves nothing because if it is inconsistent then you can prove everything including that it is consistent, even though it isn't.
23:14:42 <zzo38> So whether you use the same system or a higher system, it fails.
23:15:11 <zzo38> doesthiswork: Yes, but like I said, a proof that it is consistent proves nothing.
23:17:10 * oerjan hereby swats everyone in here who doesn't remember gödel's incompleteness theorem hth -----###
23:17:13 <doesthiswork> Although you don't need to take such a black and white vie of consistancy
23:17:34 <oerjan> (you may choose the first or second at will)
23:17:36 <Bike> i for one guarantee 85% consistency and 0% hobo skin in all my products
23:17:56 <doesthiswork> there are paraconsistant logics where not everything is provable even though some contradictions are
23:19:11 <oerjan> Bike: what about orphans
23:19:25 <Bike> neither confirm nor deny.
23:24:47 <zzo38> doesthiswork: Yes, but then it isn't inconsistent unless everything is provable.
23:26:22 <doesthiswork> zzo38: Interesting. That means that ~inconsistancy != ~~inconsistancy
23:28:03 <zzo38> Paraconsistent logic isn't inconsistent, it just looks like it. It is only inconsistent if everything is provable.
23:29:13 <Bike> i thought "inconsistent" just meant there was some proposition and its negation provable, not all propositions
23:29:17 * Fiora reads about paraconsistent logic -- wow, that's sneaky
23:29:21 <doesthiswork> yes, but it isn't consistent either. So consistantcy must not be a binary relation
23:29:45 <elliott> I wish I understood dual-intuitionistic logic
23:29:58 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraconsistency <-- this was like, surprisingly readable
23:30:10 <zzo38> I think it is consistent, because there are well-formed statements that aren't provable.
23:30:20 <elliott> it seems like you "should" be able to make something like what type theory is for intuitionistic logic, for dual-intuitionistic logic.
23:30:31 <elliott> but I don't know what that would even mean.
23:30:41 <elliott> actually I guess I just stole this idea from cmccann
23:31:12 <shachaf> Well, stealing from cmccann is fine.
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23:31:52 <elliott> also maybe it'd be hideously uncomputable, given that it's dual and stuff.
23:31:57 <Bike> good logicians, great logicians steal from cmcann -- cmcann
23:32:11 <elliott> Bike: going to quote that at cmccann.
23:32:40 <Bike> why would he want to hear something he already said
23:33:57 <Bike> he or she or i don't know
23:37:01 <shachaf> kmc: imo you should have a public key that only works for leaving the house
23:37:38 <elliott> are we talking like, a GPG public key here. the house has its own website, I can't assume anything
23:37:58 <Bike> shachaf means a physical key, which has a GPG key inscribed on it
23:39:02 <shachaf> shachaf means a GPG key, which has a physical key inscribed on it
23:41:35 <shachaf> Bike: what's a limit of a diagram with endomorphisms hth
23:49:24 <Gracenotes> drinking tea is a great way of dealing with real-life stress
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23:51:39 <monotone> shachaf: At that point I'd give up on keys and just break open a window.
23:52:42 <Gracenotes> physical keys have less entropy than... hm... what's something with stereotypically low entropy
23:53:10 <Bike> skipjack *laugh track*
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23:54:45 <Gracenotes> perhaps you could utilize another stereotype of objects in a particular cluster having high intracluster similarity
23:55:08 <Gracenotes> monotone: yeah, even 20-sided dice have less entropy tho
23:55:36 <Fiora> the linux kernel at boot?
23:55:44 <monotone> How much entropy are we talking about here?
23:56:09 <Bike> shit-aqueducts
23:56:11 <Gracenotes> physical keys have less entropy than korean k-pop bands. <- this is good, I think
23:56:22 <Bike> metric kilograms
23:56:59 <Bike> yes. a north korean trap
23:57:08 <Fiora> you could probably just go with "boy bands" or something like that
23:57:19 <elliott> korean k-pop bands from korea
23:57:30 <Gracenotes> well, in particular, the facial variance of Korean female k-pop band members.
23:57:44 <Fiora> that usually ends up being a racist joke :/
23:57:57 <shachaf> monotone: Your nick looks too much like a certain person who isn't you.
23:58:08 <shachaf> I recommend changing it (have you considered "functor"?).
23:58:20 <Gracenotes> it's not a racial joke, my understanding is that effectively they all get plastic surgery.
23:58:23 <Bike> shachaf is trying to induct you into the seven letter mafia
23:58:26 <Fiora> they do that in the US too, though
23:58:51 <Bike> not a real word
23:59:00 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functor
23:59:00 <lambdabot> Title: Functor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
23:59:00 <Phantom_Hoover> monotone, change your nick to sploknee `my gift to you'
23:59:03 <Gracenotes> sure, there are cultural/racial factors at work here.
23:59:12 <Bike> not a real lambdabot