00:00:39 <oerjan> hmph http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.28.6593 is the summary page but the abstract is clearly broken.
00:01:43 <Jafet> “the following theorem shows that there is little hope of finding a substantially better method, since the range of a modular number depends essentially on all bits of all the residues (u_i, ..., u_r)”
00:02:47 <Jafet> (knuth then writes the theorem, which is too trivial to copy here)
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02:21:21 <Bike> oh, hey. the division result actually uses chinese remainder. how about that
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02:32:34 <kmc> "Actor Peter Capaldi has been announced as the new star of BBC sci-fi series Doctor Who... Capaldi is best known for his role as foul-mouthed spin-doctor Malcolm Tucker in the BBC series The Thick of It."
02:35:00 <Bike> yeah i've already seen a bunch of messages to the effect of "why would you have him play a character who can't curse"
02:37:01 <elliott> I think doctor who would probably be better with gratuitous swearing
02:42:09 <kmc> that seems clear
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04:55:59 <btiffin> Just bragged about small s.c.r.i.p.t. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Small_s.c.r.i.p.t.
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05:58:27 <shachaf> What is Ctrl <space> supposed to be doing in vim?
06:11:00 <Deewiant> Nothing, unless it's been mapped to something
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06:15:39 <Deewiant> http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/signal-safe-strcpy
06:17:54 <Bike> why would symlink be handler-safe when strcpy isn't
06:18:16 <Deewiant> Because it's specced that way, evidently
06:19:40 <Bike> i like the sem_post note
06:24:53 <coppro> huh, xkcd is actually funny again
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06:42:38 <kmc> how large is the second biggest connected component in the global sex graph
06:43:22 <Deewiant> Why the second biggest in particular
06:44:00 <kmc> well the biggest one is huge
06:45:08 <Bike> xkcd is on to shachaf
06:45:12 <coppro> and the vast majority of components will be size one or two
06:45:40 <kmc> the second biggest one is like the community most successful at being totally insular
06:45:44 <kmc> which makes it more interesting
06:45:50 <coppro> my guess would go to some gay community
06:46:06 <Bike> great, now i'm going to be wondering about sex connectivity instead of sleeping.
06:46:08 <kmc> the biggest connected component has a billion people probably
06:46:12 <coppro> Deewiant: probably most promiscuous individuals
06:46:27 <coppro> of any sex or orienation
06:46:37 <Deewiant> Combined with prostitutes, or something?
06:46:43 <Bike> i'll just sit here, a lone node
06:46:52 <kmc> prostitutes are usually fairly promiscuous yeah
06:46:56 <kmc> either that or they're not very good at their jobs
06:47:09 <coppro> kmc: I was going to say pretty much exactly that :(
06:47:28 <coppro> I'm pretty sure I'm in the big component
06:47:40 <coppro> even though I have low degree
06:47:42 <kmc> http://crookedtimber.org/2004/08/13/love-is-a-battlefield-spanning-tree-network-with-no-4-cycles/
06:48:03 <kmc> coppro: me too
06:49:29 <Bike> thank god i can leave this to experts instead of speculating
06:49:37 <Bike> speaking of which: do slime molds form models of sex networks
06:50:58 <coppro> Bike: how old are you, anyway?
06:51:54 <kmc> I think there are almost 50 people within distance 2 of me, so I'm pretty sure I'm in the strong set
06:52:54 <Deewiant> Are you using a loose or traditional definition of what constitutes sex
06:53:29 <kmc> a reasonably strict definition i think
06:53:40 <Bike> that's only everybody having like seven partners, doesn't seem too implausible?
06:53:41 <kmc> hard to be too traditional without also being heteronormative
06:54:16 <coppro> I think I'm near some cycles, could be wrong though; don't tend to actually talk about it a lot
06:54:19 <Deewiant> For males there's a fairly traditional same-sex sex definition as well
06:54:43 <Deewiant> It's when you have only women that it gets tricky
06:54:56 <coppro> Deewiant: whichcan easily be extended to male-female yet usually is not
06:54:58 <Bike> wow, i had this exact conversation in high school.
06:55:02 <Bike> laughed my ass off then too
06:55:36 <Deewiant> coppro: Well there's already a traditional definition there
06:55:54 <Bike> and then got into a conversation about whether talking about talking about [..recursion..] sex was as dirty as talking about [..recursion..] sex. have all my conversations in life been prep for this channel
06:56:01 <coppro> I'm just observing that there is different standard there
06:56:22 <kmc> sex isn't dirty, hth
06:56:27 <coppro> especially when you consider those who do not engage in extramarital copulation, but will do basically anything else
06:56:38 <kmc> are there lots of these people
06:56:41 <Deewiant> Traditionally (and still typically AFAIK) the more traditional stuff happens first so you don't need to worry about whether the extension counts
06:56:54 <Bike> kmc: as a virgin in high school roughly everything is dirty
06:56:54 <coppro> kmc: I do not know how many, but they do exist
06:57:19 <coppro> Bike: that means you were being a virgin wrong
06:57:33 <Bike> i don't know what that means
06:57:56 * kmc is amused by Deewiant's traditional ordering
06:58:16 <coppro> Deewiant: indeed, but what of my example?
06:59:08 <Deewiant> coppro: Well they're an exception
06:59:25 <Deewiant> I don't know how common of a one
06:59:39 <Bike> sexologists on the case
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07:00:23 <Deewiant> Especially traditionally, they could be a more modern phenomenon (but I suspect not)
07:00:32 <Fiora> I think the proper response is along the lines of "anyone who debates over whether sex has to involve a penis probably has really really boring sex"
07:01:39 <Bike> kmc's all "yeah duh, you need at least four"
07:02:33 <Deewiant> Just trying to infer kmc's 'reasonably strict definition'
07:03:49 <kmc> look there is some cocksucking involved
07:03:52 <kmc> not gonna lie
07:04:30 <Deewiant> I was assuming it doesn't since that'd be somewhat looser a definition than is traditional
07:05:19 <kmc> I'm counting it
07:05:48 <Deewiant> That's pretty loose then I guess
07:05:53 <kmc> I think if afterward all parties agree "we had sex" then I think it should count
07:06:16 <Deewiant> But then the same act doesn't count depending on who you did it with
07:07:22 <Bike> you're sociologists. that's usual
07:08:06 <Deewiant> Oh well, I guess the graphs are interesting whether they're based on subjective or objective definitions
07:08:10 <kmc> look you're not going to axiomatize sex
07:08:18 <kmc> i will personally try to stop you
07:08:30 <Bike> kmc's incompleteness theorems
07:09:57 <Deewiant> kmc: You wouldn't accept it if somebody wrote "in the following graph, 'having sex' is taken to mean [...]"? :-P
07:11:17 <Deewiant> I wasn't fighting for an end-all be-all definition or anything
07:12:27 <Bike> wow now i'm annoyed at the pathologization of herpes again. random.
07:12:47 <Deewiant> Evidently there's a movie called "The Be All and End All" about a 15-year old boy trying to lose his virginity; take it up with its writers
07:15:13 <Bike> it's mostly harmless and like 80% of all humans have it. some pharma company made people feel insecure about genital sores for marketing purposes and now here we are.
07:16:54 <Bike> i do think it's kind of interesting/cool how a nervous system infection is so incredibly widespread >_>
07:20:24 <Bike> there are very occasionally some horror story things like herpesviral encephalitis, where your head slightly explodes
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08:34:45 <fizzie> I've this pair of 1T SATA (3Gbps) drives that just don't want to work in a computar. All other disks (a 64G SSD, a 3T HD, a 750G HD) work in the same SATA port (with the same SATA and power cables), and correspondingly both 1T disks work just fine in an external USB SATA dock.
08:34:50 <fizzie> I've even tried jumpering the 1T drive down to 1.5Gbps combattability mode, but it still just keeps not showing up. (It also does spin up, it just... isn't visible.)
08:45:12 <fizzie> And why the florb does Gigabyte not have BIOS update changelogs anywhere? There's just notes for the latest.
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12:07:53 <Deewiant> kmc: Is your nick pronounced as /'keɪ'ɛm'siː/ or /'keɪ'mæk/ or /'kiː'mæk/ or what
12:14:58 <Jafet> (the joke is drugz)
12:15:06 <ion> > cycle "HA"
12:15:08 <lambdabot> "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
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12:18:08 <fizzie> Deewiant: /'ko̞:'æm'se̞:/
12:19:54 <fizzie> (Huh, ː and : are different things? Well, let's just say I made an approximation.)
12:20:43 <ion> U+02D0 MODIFIER LETTER TRIANGULAR COLON
12:20:58 <Deewiant> That's a fairly narrow transcription for an approximation :-P
12:21:04 <Deewiant> I'm not sure if the normal colon means anything in IPA
12:21:23 <ion> Do you get Toblerone-shaped poop from a triangular colon?
12:22:16 <Deewiant> fizzie: Anyhoo, while there are options like that, yes, I imagine they're not among the ones he uses, which is why I didn't include e.g. that one.
12:22:35 <Deewiant> None of this non-canonical stuff for me.
12:22:39 <fizzie> Deewiant: It's what I use when talking about kmc at home, at least.
12:22:45 <fizzie> (A frequent occurrence.)
12:23:17 <fizzie> Although sometimes I just say "Keegan", because it's the funniest. (No offense.)
12:24:25 <ion> “Keemac” is certainly correct given his actual name.
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12:25:13 <Deewiant> fizzie: Do you say that as /'kiːgən/ or /'keːgan/
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12:56:53 <oerjan> @tell <Bike> oh, hey. the division result actually uses chinese remainder. how about that<-- well duh why do you think i linked it
12:58:07 <boily1> good unlambdabotty morning!
13:01:25 <boily1> Gregor: please revert the channel to a possible state! the lack of lambdabot is bad for our daily vitamin intake!
13:02:20 <boily1> (lambdabot is from gregor, yes?)
13:05:29 <boily1> random person who usually lambdabots: ↑, and «AAAAAAAAURGH!»
13:16:59 <fizzie> Deewiant: /'keːgan/, actually. It's funnier that way, I think.
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13:27:48 <fizzie> I don't know what that was all about.
13:29:01 <boily1> /omɑilmɑtyːnyɑlusontaynːaɑnkeriɑitɑ/
13:30:34 <fizzie> Those as should be æs, at the very least.
13:30:56 <Deewiant> It could use some apostrophes for word boundaries, too.
13:31:06 <Deewiant> Not necessary in a broad transcription I guess.
13:32:08 <fizzie> Finnish is kind of funny in that you can get something that's almost an IPA approximation just by adding //s around the edges.
13:32:49 <oerjan> pesky orthophonic spelling
13:33:29 <oerjan> wait isn't that the word
13:33:51 <fizzie> And an even better approximation with tr aäö ɑæø.
13:34:09 <fizzie> Assuming some sort of hypothetical UTF-8-capable tr, do they do that nowadays?
13:34:30 <fizzie> Maybe it's locale-aware; it *is* 2013.
13:34:37 <pikhq> It's required to be.
13:34:52 <nooodl> isn't h x or something, too
13:35:02 <nooodl> (i don't know finnish at all)
13:35:13 <pikhq> `run echo 'bar' | tr aäö ɑæø
13:35:23 <oerjan> nooodl: was about to say
13:35:31 <pikhq> Apparently it makes an interesting effort instead.
13:35:52 <oerjan> (or to be precise, was thinking and about to not say anything)
13:36:01 <fizzie> I don't know IPA at all, but [Finnish phonology] says it's just /h/.
13:36:38 <fizzie> (Of course there's ŋ and such, if you want to get all fancy.)
13:36:44 <oerjan> well it's not x i guess, but it's unusual in that finnish allows it before consonants
13:37:17 <pikhq> Okay, so, tr is incredibly not locale-aware. Interesting.
13:39:20 <oerjan> why does google translate that as "Oh Rahma."
13:40:32 <oerjan> oh wait i had norwegian as target. with english it just leaves rähmä untranslated.
13:42:03 <boily1> is a rähmä like a sampo?
13:43:02 <fizzie> oerjan: Huh; it's a real word.
13:43:05 <fizzie> 1. rheum -- (a watery discharge from the mucous membranes (especially from the eyes or nose))
13:43:19 <fizzie> (I don't think it's used for any non-ocular sense, though.)
13:43:39 <fizzie> (I'd've @wn'd that, but lambdabot seems to be gone.)
13:45:05 <oerjan> allergic conjunctivitis sounds like something a grammarian might have
13:49:35 * oerjan might have it, actually
13:51:12 <boily1> I recommend a good dose of French grammar to cure that itchy ailment.
13:52:31 <oerjan> i just wash my eyes a lot instead
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14:15:39 <Roujo> Oh god French grammar =P
14:17:03 <boily1> French grammar is like having beakers of H2SO4 repeatedly thrown onto your face, but with less enjoyment.
14:17:21 <Roujo> It's not *that* bad
14:18:03 <Roujo> "Timmy was a chemist's son, but Timmy is no more: what Timmy thought was H2O was H2SO4"
14:19:20 <boily1> well, ok. maybe not sulfuric acid. probably nearer to fluoroantimonic acid. the pain is shorter.
14:19:44 <Roujo> Again, it's not *that* bad. =P
14:19:48 <Roujo> It's complicated, sure
14:19:53 <Roujo> Arbitrary at times, too
14:20:43 <Roujo> But if I managed to teach it to students who were pretty damn far behind, it can't be something that actually kills you =P
14:22:01 <boily1> news report: “Another student found mangled on his desk by a participe passé hate crime...”
14:22:15 <boily1> Roujo: so, you're a teacher?
14:22:52 <Roujo> Not even, that's the thing
14:23:19 <Roujo> I just took up being a French mentor instead of doing my French Comm course in Cégep
14:23:38 <boily1> I did the same, but with math students.
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14:56:23 <HackEgo> Zuu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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14:59:07 <Zuu> Im not quite used to this kind of welcoming
15:02:32 <Fiora> they do it to everyone <.<
15:02:40 <Fiora> at least you only got one welcome message, they gave me about 5
15:03:09 <Zuu> Well, its certainly much nicer than last time i was here :P
15:03:43 * Zuu is only really here because his proxy crashed, and autojoin channels havent been changed for quite a while
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15:33:12 <boily> good. I did my first ghost! back to my usual self.
15:33:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: relcom: not found
15:33:50 <HackEgo> Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
15:42:32 <HackEgo> boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
15:43:10 <Roujo> Also, Zuu, do I know you from somewhere?
15:43:14 <Roujo> Your name looks familiar
15:43:32 <Zuu> Roujo: Probably :>
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15:45:57 <Zuu> Roujo: unless its familiar in a bad way, then no, you dont know me :P
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15:48:51 <boily> Zuu: are you Canadian?
15:49:41 <Zuu> boily: I wouldnt mind to have been :>
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17:03:10 <boily> Fiora: the welcomes never stop. we are a very welcommy community.
17:04:22 <Roujo> Does any bot here have echo capability?
17:04:23 <HackEgo> Roujo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:04:33 <HackEgo> boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:05:15 <Roujo> But of course, it doesn't react to its own lines =P
17:05:43 <boily> Roujo: HackEgo is special. it inserts an invisible space before any line it prints that begins with a non-alpha character.
17:05:57 <Roujo> `welcome ~echo `welcome Hats
17:05:57 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#
17:05:57 <lambdabot> esoteric",":@echo `echo hello"]} target:#esoteric rest:"`echo hello"
17:05:59 <HackEgo> ~echo: `welcome: Hats: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:06:10 <Roujo> Dammit, foiled by a colon
17:06:27 <elliott> it's easy enough to loop some of the bots if you really want to
17:06:37 <Roujo> I don't really want to loop them
17:06:39 <elliott> metasepia should be loopable I think
17:06:42 <Roujo> Since that's generally annoying
17:06:44 <boily> uhm. how the what the fungot did my bot log got throught lambdabot.
17:06:52 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo q"]}
17:07:10 <lambdabot> echo <msg>. echo irc protocol string
17:07:21 <boily> that is not good. most definitely, elliottely not good.
17:10:57 <metasepia> CYUL 051700Z 29013G20KT 30SM FEW040 FEW240 20/07 A3001 RMK CU1CI1 CU TR CI TR SLP162 DENSITY ALT 600FT
17:11:01 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#
17:11:01 <lambdabot> esoteric",":@echo ~ping"]} target:#esoteric rest:"~ping"
17:11:28 <Fiora> ~echo `echo ~echo `echo
17:11:28 <boily> ~echo @echo `echo ^ping
17:11:28 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#
17:11:28 <lambdabot> esoteric",":@echo `echo ^ping"]} target:#esoteric rest:"`echo ^ping"
17:12:36 <boily> fizzie: *chewbacca sounds* *flail* *woggle*
17:13:57 -!- fungot has joined.
17:14:01 <fungot> ~echo `echo ~echo `echo
17:15:32 <fizzie> My thing is being real slow. :/
17:17:21 <nooodl> hi i made this http://ideone.com/5IKz5G
17:19:17 -!- Bike has joined.
17:19:37 <nooodl> i wonder if ruby code matching /[:punct:]*/ is tc
17:20:15 <boily> can you do a BF interpreter in punctual ruby?
17:20:17 <elliott> can you write any character and eval?
17:22:05 <nooodl> eval is impossible i think
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17:33:21 <kmc> Deewiant: usually I spell it out letter by letter but yes you can just call me "Keegan" in person
17:33:29 <kmc> I used to have "keegan" an freenode long ago...
17:34:05 -!- kmc has set topic: When the zetas fill the skies, will our leaders tell us why? | 22nd IOCCC is open: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | jsvine is doing an esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q/viewform | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
17:34:20 <Deewiant> kmc: The latter was more about if it's anything like "keemac" or "kaymac", but OK, you spell it out
17:34:54 <metasepia> zeta definition: the 6th letter of the Greek alphabet.
17:36:43 <fizzie> Deewiant: Why the sudden interest, incidentally? Planning a #esoteric talk show or something?
17:37:22 <Deewiant> fizzie: Just came to mind for some reason
17:37:28 <Fiora> tonight, on the esoteric show
17:37:46 <Fiora> is rust an esoteric language? or is it just kmc trying to push his playtoy on everyone else?
17:37:51 <Fiora> bf derivatives: are they passe?
17:38:34 <Fiora> N-dimensional esoteric languages: the next generation of programming?
17:38:40 <Fiora> find out, tonight, on the esoteric show.
17:38:48 <elliott> kmc: if we meet in person I'll call you kay em cee is that okay
17:39:24 <elliott> I wonder when the point was that everyone collectively got sick of bf derivatives
17:39:29 <elliott> pretty sure it was after 2007
17:39:49 <Fiora> I keep wanting to read kmc as "kimchee"
17:39:52 <Fiora> and then I'm hungry
17:40:40 <boily> ~duck duck duck go
17:40:41 <metasepia> Duck Duck Go is a search engine based in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania that uses information from crowd-sourced sites (like Wikipedia) with the aim of augmenting traditional results and improving relevance.
17:41:25 <kmc> Fiora: haha
17:41:32 <kmc> I like kimchi
17:41:39 <kmc> although not the super fishy kind
17:42:16 <boily> there's fishy kimchi?
17:42:26 <Roujo> Yeah, but I don't trust it
17:43:56 <boily> “The most common seasonings include brine, scallions, spices, ginger, chopped radish, garlic, saeujeot (hangul: 새우젓, shrimp sauce), and aekjeot (hangul: 액젓, fish sauce).”
17:44:48 <Bike> is this a riemann hypothesis thing
17:45:29 <kmc> not really
17:46:01 <Bike> http://www.spacereptilesareyourfriend.com/images/30-Electronic-Mail-Blues.jpg
17:46:21 <fizzie> MC kmc is on the mike.
17:46:29 <kmc> Bike: good domain name
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17:48:44 <Gregor> Actual website circa 1998.
18:15:21 <Bike> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/11/071108-fossil-foodchain.html fossilized turducken
18:17:00 <Fiora> is it wrong if I find the word "turducken" inherently hilarious
18:17:45 <kmc> nothing could be more right
18:20:06 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inherently_funny_word
18:20:46 <elliott> as someone who is not American I can also confirm that turducken itself is inherently hilarious
18:27:52 <olsner> I think it's more disgusting than hilarious, too close to turd-ducken
18:30:39 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_stuffed_camel
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18:39:48 <Gregor> elliott: Also: Delicious.
18:43:31 <kmc> elliott: your country invented the deep fried mars bar
18:44:36 <elliott> kmc: Scotland is a different country to England
18:45:33 <elliott> several countries under one sovereign state called the UK and also the UK is part of the Commonwealth??
18:45:44 <elliott> and then there's the Crown dependencies
18:45:49 <Gregor> But which of those is a "nation"
18:45:54 <shachaf> kmc: did you know "2" is apparently a different category from "𝟐"
18:46:00 <elliott> ""The Crown" is defined differently in each Crown dependency."
18:46:32 <Bike> recently england had legislation to put the monarchy under absolute primogeniture but they haven't done it yet because all the other countries with the same monarchy would have to do it too
18:46:45 <Bike> which is kind of a shame because i like the idea of there being two english monarchs based on local legislation
18:46:57 <elliott> Gregor: AIUI, "nation" here is short for "nation state"
18:47:07 <elliott> Gregor: so it has to be the UK
18:47:16 <elliott> because I don't think England, Scotland etc. are states
18:47:25 <elliott> this being a distinct kind of state from the US ones, I think
18:47:43 <elliott> however I think Crown dependencies are self-governed nation states that just happen to belong to the Crown?
18:47:58 <elliott> "Legislation of the Isle of Man defines the "Crown in right of the Isle of Man" as being separate from the "Crown in right of the United Kingdom".[6]" fuck
18:48:06 <Bike> for some level of "self-governed"
18:48:13 <Bike> they probably don't handle their own diplomacy or military
18:48:14 <elliott> well, de jure self-governed.
18:48:27 <elliott> "Although the Crown dependencies are British possessions of the Crown, and are not sovereign nations in their own right"
18:48:37 <Bike> i mean, they can pass local legislation, but not negotiate a treaty independently
18:48:41 <elliott> okay but they're not part of the United Kingdom
18:48:41 <Bike> because they're not sovereign
18:48:45 <elliott> so they... have no sovereign state?
18:49:10 <elliott> The relationship between the Crown dependencies and the UK is "one of mutual respect and support, ie, a partnership".[26]
18:49:15 <elliott> The British Government is solely responsible for defence and international representation[27] (although, in accordance with 2007 framework agreements,[28] the UK has undertaken not to act internationally on behalf of the Crown dependencies without prior consultation). Each Crown dependency has responsibility for its own customs and immigration services.
18:49:16 <Roujo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
18:49:19 <Bike> man i remember when i went through learning this, and i found out that literally the official criterion for "is a state" is "other states call it a state"
18:49:20 <elliott> I think I'm just going to cry
18:49:23 <Bike> and just kind of laughed and gave up
18:49:34 <shachaf> Bike: what's wrong with that criterion
18:49:43 <Bike> nothing really, it works very well
18:49:49 <elliott> Roujo: I think I've watched that and it doesn't actually explain these fiddly bits
18:49:54 <kmc> international law is really just made up as you go
18:49:55 <Bike> except for occasional outliers like thailand or kosovo
18:49:56 <kmc> also all other law
18:49:59 <elliott> like I thought I had a pretty good grasp on what all the things in the UK and stuff were
18:50:04 <kmc> but international law is newer and so this is more obvious, or something
18:50:06 <Roujo> elliott: It might not. I was just hoping it helped =)
18:50:08 <Bike> kmc: yeah but this was before i understood that. it was, like, a revelation, man.
18:50:09 <elliott> but then PH was all "what about the Crown dependencies"
18:50:13 <kmc> yeah it is a revelation
18:50:35 <shachaf> p. sure i remember a conversation like that
18:50:38 <Bike> kmc: it was like "wow this makes no sense. that makes so much sense"
18:51:02 <elliott> "The Crown dependencies, together with the United Kingdom, are collectively known as the British Islands." I like how "British Islands" is a different thing to "British Isles" oh my god
18:51:14 <kmc> perhaps it's part of the more general revelation of "adults don't actually know what they're doing"
18:51:31 <elliott> "While their constitutional status bears some resemblance to that of the Commonwealth realms, the Crown dependencies are not members of the Commonwealth of Nations. They participate in the Commonwealth of Nations by virtue of their relationship with the United Kingdom, and participate in various Commonwealth institutions in their own right. For example, all three participate in the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the Commonwealth Games."
18:52:00 <Bike> elliott: btw the best crown dependency is guernsey. Sark is feudal and all
18:52:48 <elliott> okay so I honestly don't understand what "state" you're in when you're in a Crown dependency
18:52:56 <elliott> they're not sovereign states unto themselves, but they're also not part of the United Kingdom
18:53:04 <elliott> but you are, presumably, not stateless
18:53:07 <Bike> what citizenship do they have?
18:53:32 <elliott> Channel Islanders and Manx people are British citizens and hence European citizens.[39] However, they are not entitled to take advantage of the freedom of movement of people or services unless they are directly connected (through birth, descent from a parent or grandparent, or five years' residence) with the United Kingdom.[40]
18:53:37 <elliott> but that's not all the crown dependencies
18:53:41 <elliott> Matters reserved to the Crown (i.e. acting through the United Kingdom Government) are limited to defence, citizenship, and diplomatic representation.
18:53:50 <elliott> I think you probably have citizenship of the Crown dependency you're in usually?
18:53:53 <elliott> just... it's not a sovereign state...
18:53:54 <Bike> hm yes, this seems to be utterly fucked.
18:54:08 <elliott> I think maybe this Wikipedia article is oversimplified in parts or something
18:54:20 <elliott> and they're maybe kind-of-states enough to have citizens and stuff, just not fully-fledged autonomous ones??
18:54:34 <Bike> well, probably, in that you can't get a deep understanding of british law without finding the secret protocols in the magna carta
18:55:08 <elliott> nice they're also SORT OF members of the EU
18:55:09 <Bike> seriously you know the whole outlawries bill thing right. it's like just way too much tradition man
18:55:13 <elliott> because of their "association" with the UK
18:55:26 <Bike> isn't french guiana like that too
18:55:27 <elliott> Of the Four Freedoms of the EU, the islands take part in that concerning the movement of goods, but not those concerning the movement of people, services or capital. The Channel Islands are outside the VAT area (as they have no VAT), while the Isle of Man is inside it.[37] Both areas are inside the customs union.[38]
18:56:07 <Bike> hm nope, french guiana is just part of the european union.
18:56:10 <elliott> don't Amazon do some things from Jersey
18:56:12 <Bike> stickin their tendrils into south america
18:57:36 <elliott> Bike: can you just figure all this out for me so I can stop thinking about it
18:58:04 <olsner> let's just call it all england and be done with it?
18:58:14 <kmc> let's go to Åland
18:58:31 <fizzie> Verkkokauppa.com (a Finnish computers-and-nowadays-everything-else-too e-retailer) used to send some things from Åland Islands VAT-free.
18:58:39 <Bike> elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_(international_relations) hth.
18:58:45 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT-free_imports_from_the_Channel_Islands
18:59:16 <fizzie> They were all priced like 0.05 eur from the maximum limit before you have to do something customs-related, and you could order only one thing at a time.
18:59:41 <kmc> does their name just mean "online shop"?
19:00:11 <fizzie> They also paid that one guy to change his name to Verkkokauppa, I think.
19:00:36 <fizzie> Some random dude in the US.
19:00:59 <fizzie> Formerly known as Calvin Gosz.
19:01:06 <olsner> why would they do that?
19:01:22 <kmc> yknow there used to be duty free shops inside the Berlin U-bahn
19:01:25 <kmc> pretty convenient
19:01:28 <fizzie> http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Unemployed+US+teenager+gets+curious+new+name+-+Verkkokauppa/1135250640026
19:02:05 <kmc> he only got $5k? come on
19:02:16 <shachaf> "As the number of immigrants in the United States is high, the legislation regarding names is rather loose, which is why changing names in the country is relatively easy."
19:02:45 <elliott> ”We have seen quite a number of different spellings of our company name, which is why we stressed that the name will have to be spelled correctly. Otherwise the young man could be left without the remaining sum of money”, Seppälä notes.
19:03:00 <fizzie> I'm not entirely certain they got their money's worth there, really, in a PR sense, because after those first few news articles, I've heard nothing of it.
19:03:29 <fizzie> Perhaps they could do a "where is Verkkokauppa Com now" episode in a show or something.
19:09:35 <shachaf> What should I use for drawing commutative diagrams on a computer?
19:11:46 <Bike> is there not a tex module or whatever for it yet
19:11:57 <mnoqy> there are plenty of tex things for it
19:12:03 <mnoqy> ??but which to use??
19:12:39 <boily> I use the lazy way and eps everything.
19:22:30 <kmc> I guess it would be nice to give my heart to a TeX module but which one, which one do I choooooose
19:23:00 <shachaf> mnoqy: i'm as confused as a bear driving a car over here
19:23:14 <kmc> comicsans.sty
19:23:53 <fungot> olsner: i still want that box, riastradh? if so, it's a little off-putting. :)
19:24:15 <metasepia> Warp spasm is a mythological feat found in Celtic myth by which a warrior enters a frenzied state of contortion in battle that makes him invincible.
19:24:16 <kmc> fungot: perhaps you will fix my destructor cycle
19:24:17 <fungot> kmc: yes you can, and have new features added regularly? if not, don't bother. go straight to /dev/ dsp is using before writing to it
19:25:21 <elliott> kmc: have you tried bonghits yet
19:25:43 <kmc> not exactly
19:25:44 <kmc> A luxury toilet controlled by a smartphone app is vulnerable to attack, according to security experts.
19:27:12 <mnoqy> having your toilet hacked would probably be distressing
19:27:23 <kmc> I have a strict "no bonghits at work" policy
19:27:35 <kmc> I realize this makes me a conservative dinosaur who just doesn't ``get'' startup culture
19:27:42 <olsner> hmm, so what can you do with a hacked toilet?
19:27:43 <elliott> mnoqy: what if you got your aim hecked...
19:27:58 <mnoqy> far beyond distressing
19:28:41 <shachaf> kmc: what about other kinds of hits
19:30:26 <kmc> perhaps cache hits will fix my performance problem
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19:33:47 <kmc> http://www.purple.com/
19:37:20 <elliott> purple.com is one of the eight wonders of the internet
19:37:23 <elliott> not sure what the others are
19:37:32 <boily> for a moment I thought it was a new host for #esoteric's logs...
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19:49:05 <kmc> [xcb] Most likely this is a multi-threaded client and XInitThreads has not been called
19:49:07 <kmc> [xcb] Aborting, sorry about that.
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20:02:33 <Taneb> kmc, why are there muse lyrics in the topic
20:05:50 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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20:06:10 <shachaf> Taneb: for inspiration hth
20:06:43 <Taneb> Well, the answer is clearly because they are fully loaded celluloids, which target nothing but our minds
20:07:43 * boily shakes fungot out of Taneb
20:07:44 <fungot> boily: heh, then put it up or are you a teen-ager? even sillier!!
20:12:53 <Taneb> boily, that's the next two lines of the song
20:13:37 * boily still shakes Taneb for the fun of it
20:13:51 <Taneb> (it's a weird song)
20:14:15 -!- zzo38 has joined.
20:14:46 <boily> the only other song that has “celluloid” in its lyrics that I know of is carpet crawlers from genesis.
20:14:56 <Taneb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi0XGqFt3Es
20:15:02 <boily> that one too is pretty incomprehensible.
20:16:22 <boily> oh. here come the zetas.
20:17:16 <kmc> Taneb: I thought they were satellites
20:17:29 <kmc> also why is why not
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20:57:24 <kmc> "The Washington Post Company just announced that it has reached an agreement to sell its newspaper publishing business to Amazon founder and CEO Jeff Bezos for $250 million." O______O
20:58:11 <kmc> like, is he running for office? why the hell else would somebody want to own a newspaper
21:02:17 <elliott> probably jeff bezos just wants to own everything though?
21:02:24 <zzo38> kmc: To improve the quality of the newspaper?
21:02:30 <Bike> "Unsettled WP editorial board reflexively calls for airstrikes on Barnes & Noble and Overstock."
21:02:31 <elliott> jsvine: what is your professional take on this story
21:02:45 <jsvine> elliott: totally fascinating
21:02:59 <zzo38> If I wanted to own a newspaper, I would do so in order to improve it.
21:04:16 <kmc> Bike: haha
21:04:20 <zzo38> What is the "`*list" for the Dungeons&Dragons recording? I think it could be "`*list" just for consistency (even if the file doesn't exist); what would it be called, please?
21:04:42 <zzo38> jsvine: How much of esolang report did you write so far?
21:05:09 <jsvine> elliott: there's an argument to be made that newspapers could benefit from owners with the money and skill to develop a long-term strategy, rather than the desperate grasping for page-views that's become so common. Who knows if Bezos is the right person, but very much looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
21:05:53 <Bike> finally, the Post will get a good API
21:06:50 <shachaf> zzo38: You get to name it.
21:07:11 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:07:38 <jsvine> zzo38: I have a considerable chunk written, but it still needs a stronger "human" narrative, something that non-technical readers can relate to — a quest to create X, or a rivalry between X and Y, or just some colorful anecdotes
21:08:18 <jsvine> zzo38: since there's no particular rush for the story, I'm gradually figuring that part out, interviewing folks, etc.
21:08:34 <kmc> hmmmmm who shall be my rival
21:08:56 <jsvine> Bike: you might like this: https://github.com/dwillis/post_haste
21:09:03 <zzo38> shachaf: OK, I can call it "`danddreclist" (I didn't finish yet; when I will I will type it by itself). (Note: Your client should be progreammed to only filter on messages starting with "`danddreclist"; not on all messages containing it!
21:09:04 <shachaf> kmc: can i be your archnemesis
21:09:18 <Bike> hah, i don't actually need one, but thanks
21:09:43 <shachaf> zzo38: Wait, my client doesn't filter on list names. The point of lists is that the bot notifies me.
21:10:20 <shachaf> zzo38: So you would make a HackEgo program in bin/danddreclist and it would print my name.
21:10:34 <Bike> "The Washington Post, one of our country’s greatest newspapers, just sold for 1/4 the price of Tumblr." there are a lot of good quotes coming out of this
21:10:39 <zzo38> shachaf: You can program the bot to notify you if you want that, I suppose; after all, it is prefixed in the way to do that. I won't put that but I do this that you can program it if you want to make it do that.
21:11:00 <shachaf> Do you have HackEgo on /ignore or something?
21:11:11 <shachaf> `run cp bin/{empty,danddrec}list
21:11:20 <shachaf> `run echo shachaf >> bin/danddreclist
21:11:23 <zzo38> I don't have it ignored
21:11:30 <shachaf> Does anyone else want to be on the list?
21:12:13 <nooodl> `run echo nooodl >> bin/danddreclist
21:16:54 <nooodl> oh hey elliott remember the "is symbols-only ruby TC" thing! turns out it kinda is, if you cheat
21:17:46 <nooodl> basically you construct a string like "ruby -e 'do stuff'" and then print `#{__}`
21:18:29 <elliott> also print isn't symbols??
21:19:21 <nooodl> ($> is the perl-y global variable for stdout, << sends stuff to it """C++ style""")
21:19:57 <nooodl> http://bpaste.net/raw/120265/ here's an example! it counts to ten and prints hello world
21:23:32 <FreeFull> I wonder if dependent typing will ever hit the mainstream
21:27:19 <FreeFull> Do you think C will be still used during the 22nd century?
21:27:50 <zzo38> Yes I think C will still be used although maybe with a lesser percentage.
21:27:53 <boily> probably. will humans be the ones who are using it?
21:28:03 <Bike> nah, zorblaxians
21:28:32 <boily> fungot: are you a zorblaxian?
21:28:45 * boily eyes fungot suspiciously
21:28:45 <fungot> boily: well no matter what is and, if i'm not totally sold on the net, who's going to play with
21:29:12 <zzo38> Human or not, I think if someone is modifying an existing program written in C, they will know some things of C programming even if they don't use C as often as others.
21:29:12 * boily eyes fungot very suspiciously
21:29:12 <fungot> boily: i guess i've only ever been a proper stove at home now
21:29:51 <fizzie> fungot: You don't run *that* hot.
21:29:51 <fungot> fizzie: i'm afraid that's something you should be doing
21:30:19 <boily> yup. that bot is most definitely a zorblaxian.
21:30:29 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting).
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21:30:36 <Bike> by 2117 greenland will have melted and the remaining humans will pledge fealty to zorblax corporation, and so on
21:30:44 <fizzie> fungot: I, uh... are you going to incinerate me?
21:30:44 <fungot> fizzie: scheme is far more interesting.
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21:31:05 <kmc> Bike: the Washington Post may be one of the greatest newspapers but it cannot supply me with an unlimited amount of incredibly specific pornography
21:31:25 <Bike> hopefully bezos can fix that
21:31:52 <kmc> FreeFull: didn't you see that episode of TNG where they discover the Borg is written in C and attack it with a format string vulnerability
21:32:17 <Bike> "POSIX conformance was your downfall"
21:36:18 <FreeFull> kmc: Haven't seen that one, but I have seen the one with a buffer overflow due to not checking the input size
21:36:21 <Fiora> I am captai%n jea%n luc picard
21:36:48 <boily> specific pornography? like, the shadow of a left nipple of a 36¼ year old woman from north-western nebraska cast in a blue-violet light?
21:37:25 <Gracenotes> It was a pretty good idea, designing scanf to write to arbitrary memory.
21:38:46 <FreeFull> Gracenotes: I have no idea what a legitimate use of it would even be
21:39:38 <Bike> a legitimate use of printf?
21:39:40 <zzo38> I suggest two things adding to printf formatting strings: One is a "read-only" format specifier which makes it cannot write, and other which tells it to parse the rest of the string for size specifications of numbered parameters but otherwise ignore it (so that you can make a user format string which uses the first and third value and ignores the second, for example).
21:40:08 <FreeFull> When would you actually use it?
21:40:34 <zzo38> FreeFull: I know I don't think it is useful.
21:40:56 <Bike> Maybe for tabulation?
21:41:01 <Bike> Of... some kind.
21:41:29 <zzo38> I don't think it helps much for tabulation.
21:42:13 <FreeFull> Actually, it could be used for tabulation
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21:42:32 <Bike> http://stackoverflow.com/a/3402415 well, ok.
21:42:35 <Gracenotes> You'll be happy to know I've written 0x401f2d bytes so far! I'm so happy I'm not just telling you, but also the PLT. Hope this helps, have a good day!
21:42:50 <Bike> programming language theory?
21:42:52 <zzo38> If you have long strings and then you will line up in columns, make something like: x=printf(...); while(x++<20) putchar(' '); It is one way.
21:43:26 <FreeFull> Something like printf("%d%n", somenumber, moo); for(i=0;i<(something-moo);i++) putChar(' ');
21:43:45 <FreeFull> Actually, you need to dereference the moo
21:44:09 <Bike> zzo38: well in this imaginary situation you want to print something on the same line as x after the beginning of the columsn.
21:44:29 <zzo38> printf already returns the length though, and if it is just something simple like %d then you can still use the left-align format code for it
21:45:02 <Gracenotes> Unix people using columns to create tables, HTML people using tables to create columns
21:45:08 <Bike> yeah but you'd need to break it into two calls. x = printf(...); printf(...); while (x++ <20) ...
21:45:21 <Bike> not that this is very good or anything.
21:45:27 <FreeFull> zzo38: %n can be in the middle of the printed string though
21:45:33 <zzo38> Bike: I don't know what's the point of doing that, though.
21:45:50 <Bike> convolutedly justifying %n
21:46:21 <zzo38> FreeFull: Yes it can, but such thing doesn't seem very useful. Even then, you can use multiple printf statements. Maybe some programs use %n but I don't use it.
21:46:41 <zzo38> It is what I suggest adding two new format codes, which can help.
21:47:50 <FreeFull> I suggest looking for %n in the linux source coude
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21:52:46 <kmc> FreeFull: yeah Kees Cook carries around a thumbdrive with partitions with names like "%99999n"
21:52:50 <kmc> it will crash a lot of machines
21:52:58 <kmc> (not necessarily in the kernel, but in all the gnome bullshit that looks at new disks, etc)
21:53:29 <zzo38> Why should you use the partition name as a format string? That doesn't make any sense.
21:55:25 <Bike> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/04/obama-is-wrong-traditional-journalism-isnt-dead/ «Correction: This post originally stated that Obama said “traditional journalism is dead” in his interview with Amazon. That was incorrect.»
21:55:56 <nooodl> http://bpaste.net/raw/120285/
21:56:11 <nooodl> BCT in ruby (with . and * instead of 0 and 1) using only punctuation
21:57:10 <nooodl> wait is $$ guaranteed to be nonzero?? (it's the pid)
21:57:36 <zzo38> I see a zero in there it isn't punctuation. But $. is zero isn't it, can you use that?
21:58:03 <nooodl> oops i forgot that zero
21:58:24 <nooodl> http://bpaste.net/raw/120287/ there
21:59:40 <kmc> Bike: the irony, it burns
22:04:07 <Bike> "To monitor kinetics continuously, we outfitted each cockroach with a custom micro-accelerometer backpack,"
22:04:29 <oerjan> now just s/back/jet/ and we're all set
22:05:15 <Bike> eh, how much fuel can you fit in 600 mg of pack
22:05:43 <oerjan> just make it nuclear duh
22:23:39 <oerjan> <Bike> except for occasional outliers like thailand or kosovo <-- itym "taiwan" hth
22:25:05 <HackEgo> 136) <alise> "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." <cpressey> alise: I <cpressey> I was going to say something then your last line floored me
22:25:34 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: cockroaches are notoriously lacking in heavy water
22:25:48 <kmc> wait thailand and taiwan aren't the same country???????? brb calling embassy
22:26:43 <Bike> yeah that was a dumb mistake sorry
22:26:59 <Phantom_Hoover> taiwan is the one that keeps saying it's china, thailand is the one that's like vietnam or whatever
22:27:17 <Bike> ok well now i feel better.
22:27:26 <Bike> thailand is a monarchy...
22:27:34 <elliott> uh I hear they're like vietnam
22:27:40 <Bike> "communist monarchy"
22:30:01 <kmc> did you know pad thai was invented only in like 1940s and is more chinese than thai in origin
22:30:37 <kmc> Prime Minister Luang Phibunsongkhram popularized it as the national dish to promote nationalism
22:31:37 <boily> some day, alise will come back and pull a cpressey.
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22:32:17 <Fiora> kmc: at least it's not chop suey
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22:32:38 <kmc> 'anthropologist E.N. Anderson concludes that the dish is based on tsap seui (“miscellaneous leftovers”)'
22:32:41 <kmc> catchy name
22:33:35 * oerjan is reminded of pytt i panne
22:33:55 <oerjan> which i haven't had for ages, i think
22:34:43 <kmc> why am i in ##c++ again
22:36:05 <Bike> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdT1YT9AOPA finally
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22:53:20 <FreeFull> kmc: Yeah, why are you in ##c++ when you should be in #idris
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22:57:54 <Bike> hey ChrisW last time you were here i forgot to mention you can do a prefix code for ski in binary so that 11 means something.
22:58:27 <ChrisW> What would 11 mean? I sort of forgot what 00, 01, and 10 mean too
22:58:58 <Bike> say 0 is `, 10 is K and 11 is S
22:59:59 <ChrisW> That's almost the same as BCL, right?
23:02:33 <ChrisW> I wonder if there is a one-point combinator which does not contain application to an abstraction
23:03:20 <zzo38> Do you think the million dollar wedge in Wheel of Fortune is actually worth only a few dollars?
23:05:57 <elliott> apparently 1600x900 at 14" counts as an "HD display" for marketing purposes -_-
23:06:18 <elliott> high-definition, adj. bigger than 1024x768
23:06:46 <Fiora> isn't 1024x768 already HD?
23:06:50 <Fiora> I mean, it's 720p :P
23:06:53 <kmc> i mean technically 720p is "high def" but still, screw you monitor manufacturers
23:06:56 <Fiora> </marketing speak>
23:07:05 * Bike stares at x600 monitor.
23:10:47 <elliott> and 720p is 1280x720 I think
23:10:56 <elliott> by I think I mean I just looked it up on Wikipedia
23:19:20 <kallisti> elliott: is the TH in mchost actually less code that creating helper functions and writing the code directly?
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23:20:33 <elliott> kallisti: it generates data types as well as a parser
23:20:41 <elliott> also mchost is like years out of date btw
23:20:58 <elliott> you might want to look at mcmap, it had stuff to automatically parse out the protocol from the dev wiki
23:21:06 <elliott> which is a more convenient, albeit hackier approach
23:22:06 <kallisti> elliott: did you develop that as well?
23:22:55 <elliott> I worked a lot on mcmap, yes (this one: http://github.com/fis/mcmap), though it's originally fizzie's project
23:24:29 <kallisti> elliott: which version of minecraft was it last tested for?
23:25:25 <elliott> whatever the latest version was in 2012-01-06, presumably
23:25:29 <elliott> I think they redid the whole protocol or something?
23:25:38 <elliott> (I hope so, it was an awful protocol)
23:25:54 <kallisti> elliott: variable width with no terminator
23:28:33 <elliott> the protocol at least used to assume that running zlib over some data never made it bigger.
23:28:41 <elliott> or maybe even always made it smaller?
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23:56:15 <Bike> journals with social features are kind of cool. i can see that someone in yellowknife and eleven kenyans have read this paper