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00:59:27 <oerjan> sketchy diagram http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/130819.html
01:05:48 <oerjan> @tell <boily> probably nearer to boily>boyle. my ancestors were Irish on the Boily side, but French on the Tremblay side. <-- what, and here i've been carefully pronouncing it with a french oi...
01:06:48 <oerjan> @ask boily also, how does one say "poulet" with an irish accent twh
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01:20:03 <Sgeo> http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/conn-police-cable-outage-worthy-911-call-20002202
01:32:14 <Bike> MEANWHILE, IN THE HUMANITIES http://lareviewofbooks.org/review/an-impossible-number-of-books/
01:32:30 <oerjan> reading the logs by pasting into google translate is annoying. i suggest we ban french hth
01:39:54 <Bike> http://www.scfbm.org/ also
01:40:32 <nooodl> oerjan: you mean like "bwally"
01:40:40 <nooodl> if so that's great & i'm going to start saying it in my head
01:49:43 <oerjan> <Roujo> git commit sepukku <-- do spelling nazis commit seppuku after misspelling it?
01:52:07 <Sgeo> I think glogbot should have a feature to reintegrate clog logs if glogbot goes down then comes back uo
02:02:29 <oerjan> glogbackup is supposed to be for backup logging, but afaik Gregor never has merged its logs back in
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02:13:32 <Sgeo> Wonder if I can still download Netscape
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02:14:22 <Gregor> Sgeo: It's certainly on oldwhatever.com
02:15:43 <Sgeo> There was a version 9 apparently
02:16:19 <Sgeo> Probably not really classic Netscape, I guess
02:17:27 <Sgeo> Looks Firefoxy
02:18:02 <Sgeo> Almost certain it's a reskinned Firefox
02:20:08 <Sgeo> Yeah, reading Wikipedia makes that clear
02:20:20 <Sgeo> But it looks like it just took the UI of Firefox and rebranded it
02:23:33 <Sgeo> Which version do I want for classic feeling Navigator?
02:24:18 <Bike> sgeo have you considered becoming a historian or something instead of whatever you do now
02:30:13 <Sgeo> I've never used Mosaic myself
02:30:23 <Sgeo> Can Mosaic even be made to work on XP?
02:30:30 <Sgeo> Wonder if ViolaWWW could work
02:32:01 <Sgeo> activation.netscape.com could not be found
02:32:21 <Sgeo> Woah the GUI reminds me of REBOL
02:32:27 <Sgeo> Just... graphics-wise
02:32:40 <Bike> you could work with archive team or something
02:43:18 <oerjan> <kmc> the filesystem changes are merged afterward with Mercurial <-- does it still do that after it was made transactional?
02:44:54 <^v> python sould classify as a joke esoteric language
02:45:34 <oerjan> Roujo really has a hard time with HackEgo, i see
02:46:26 <elliott> oerjan: it's only sort of transactional now I think?
02:46:30 <oerjan> python isn't the most common language suggested in that vein, i should think
02:46:38 <oerjan> elliott: um i sort of thought you made that part
02:46:46 <elliott> he ripped out half of it :P
02:47:32 <oerjan> nah, i'm just going to assume he broke it horribly somehow hth
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03:08:23 <oerjan> oh whatever too much logs
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03:58:28 <Sgeo> What are some existing alternatives to text-based version control? Does Monticello count, or is it still text-based at the method level
03:59:28 <Sgeo> I saw a wonderful video once, I don't know what happened to it
03:59:47 <Sgeo> I saw it when I was REBOL-obsessed, so must have seen it recently, but I think the video itself is very old
04:06:05 -!- kmc has set topic: A lot of little lies for the sake of one big truth | 22nd IOCCC is open: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | jsvine is doing an esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q/viewform | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
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04:11:02 * oerjan is disappointed that that's just an album title
04:11:43 <kmc> annyway sorry 2 disappoint
04:12:19 <oerjan> kmc: it _should_ have been an epic putdown quote against something.
04:13:43 <oerjan> although perhaps there are too many somethings that fit, so it's better as an album title anyhow
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04:37:36 <btiffin> If you added GOTO to a bf instruction set, would you assist programmers and unwind any loops between current source position and new, or let them suffer for coding in a bf derivative in the first place? I'm leaning toward suffering and unpredictable behaviour.
04:38:02 -!- ^v has changed nick to dan200.
04:38:23 <Bike> why are you adding goto
04:38:40 <btiffin> Fun. And shortening of 99 bottles.
04:38:58 <Bike> well, whatever's more fun, then
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04:39:52 <Bike> anyway, going with the Core Brainfuck Goal i'd use whatever's easier to compile
04:40:54 <btiffin> small s.c.r.i.p.t. is written in COBOL. ! (from Forth) stores last immediate value or memory cell to source-position. It's all written as a GO TO (256 entries) DEPENDING on character-value. Engine just loops over the characters.
04:42:23 <zzo38> Is a "GO TO (256 entries) DEPENDING on character-value" like a "ON ... GOTO ..." in BASIC?
04:42:43 <Bike> zzo's asking if it's like basic, not if it's implemented in basic.
04:43:54 <btiffin> Oh, sorry zzo38; no not really, its a computed goto
04:44:46 <btiffin> oops just looked. Yes, yes it is.
04:46:35 <shachaf> kmc: good lightning today imo
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05:11:48 <kmc> yeah what's with that
05:11:57 <kmc> I guess the lightning is p. far away
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05:22:03 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronostasis hi i hate illusions
05:23:08 <Taneb> I came to the realisation the other day that I'm not really that much of a fan of sci-fi
05:23:45 <Taneb> I mean, I enjoy FreeFall, Firefly, the Stainless Steel Rat books
05:23:50 <Taneb> But that's really it
05:24:12 <Bike> have you considered reading real books (you nerde)
05:24:30 <Taneb> I enjoyed the Girl with the Dragon Tatto
05:24:42 <Taneb> But couldn't get into - Played with Fire
05:34:33 <elliott> Bike: "When eyes execute a saccade, perception of time stretches slightly backward." terrifying
05:36:56 <Fiora> gosh, it's kind of like, if you have a video with a bad frame, you could copy the frame after it into the bad frame.
05:37:15 <Fiora> and the visual processing system does this for you conveniently
05:37:32 <Bike> i don't like describing saccades as involving 'bad frames' but yeah
05:37:40 <Bike> relatedly: this book pointed out that you can't pan your vision
05:37:47 <Bike> and now i hate everything because i'm trying it and i can't.
05:38:38 <Bike> like focus on a thing, then smoothly move your focus.
05:39:11 <elliott> I tried moving my head but my eyes jumped anyway :(
05:39:30 <Fiora> I think I did it? I just focused on a continual object (e.g. the wall)
05:39:32 <Fiora> with no points to focus on
05:39:43 <Fiora> it's a lot easier if I just spin on my desk chair though -_-
05:40:06 <Bike> when i try it it's small jerks
05:40:44 <elliott> it's like, I wouldn't notice the jumping if I wasn't thinking about it?
05:40:50 <Bike> anywayy the upshot of this is that i spent ten minutes staring at a wall instead of reading.
05:40:58 <Bike> reading about staring, but still.
05:42:12 <Gracenotes> SMBC on memory: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2020
05:42:31 <Bike> man memory's a whole other clusterfuck, i'm talkin present experience here motha fucka
05:43:18 <Bike> i wonder why he considered memory part of "reality"
05:43:30 <Bike> how very.... subjectivist................................
05:43:33 <Gracenotes> the universe was created 5 minutes ago, you're welcome
05:43:38 <Fiora> memory is easy. I just kind of don't have it, see, resolved!
05:44:29 <Bike> here is a hand
05:44:32 <Gracenotes> I can't help think that bearable is a pun, either
05:45:20 <elliott> Fiora: what did you just say?
05:46:31 <Bike> other annoying vision things: apparently the vestibulo-ocular reflex doesn't actually fully counter motion, so your eyes receive totally different input when you turn your head, but it doesn't look like the world's actually moving
05:47:44 <elliott> wait, what does that mean?
05:48:11 <Bike> like, your eyes point in a different direction than they were, so the light they receieve is totally different
05:48:15 <Bike> but your vision is still stable
05:48:16 <Fiora> elliott: that my memory is horrifically awful
05:48:33 <Bike> also applies to saccades
05:48:38 <elliott> Fiora: see, you remembered.
05:48:42 <dan200> 3.1415926535897932384626433832
05:48:47 <elliott> unless you looked at what you said. but that's cheating.
05:48:48 <dan200> i have a good memory .-.
05:48:57 <Bike> dan200: now do euler-mascheroni
05:49:15 <elliott> Fiora just reads the whole day's log whenever she needs to respond to anything
05:50:11 <dan200> was that seriously a lim 1 infinity
05:50:15 <Bike> the euler-mascheroni constant. recite it.
05:50:22 <Bike> a couple digits, anyway.
05:51:25 <Bike> catalan nimbers
05:51:48 <Fiora> elliott: well that's like, short term memory
05:52:02 <Fiora> long term memory is basically just a bunch of facts, and if I'm lucky, a past event in my life might be in one of those fact boxes
05:52:14 <Fiora> but it's more likely that the fact box will contain, like, the name of a pokemon
05:52:42 <elliott> I wish I got random pokemon whenever I tried to think of something
05:52:51 <elliott> huh. I don't actually know the plural of pokemon
05:52:56 <Bike> you should just use your procedural memory instead. so whenever you tap your fingers in a certain order you can remember the name of that boy who threw sand in your face in the second grade, making you cry
05:52:57 <HackEgo> ＤＡＮ２００： ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ ＴＯ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ ＨＵＢ ＦＯＲ ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ ＤＥＳＩＧＮ ＡＮＤ ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！ ＦＯＲ ＭＯＲＥ ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴ
05:53:00 <Bike> elliott: pokemen
05:53:13 <Gracenotes> for the most part, it's different neurons that respond differently to different stimuli.
05:53:17 <Fiora> dan200: they really like welcoming you a lot, unfortunately
05:53:21 <Fiora> I got welcomed, like, 7 times
05:53:26 <dan200> THREE TIMES I HAVE BEEN WELCOMED
05:53:32 <Bike> Gracenotes: not in this case!
05:53:32 <dan200> not including when i was here 3 years ago
05:53:44 <Bike> `pastelogs lcome Fiora
05:53:45 <dan200> i must have been welcomed 10 times ;_;
05:54:09 <HackEgo> DaN200: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
05:54:14 <Gracenotes> Bike: I do recall memory neurons being a bit differently behaving.
05:54:22 <Fiora> oh no not again ;_;
05:54:22 <Bike> oh i don't mean memory
05:54:24 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.419
05:54:26 <HackEgo> Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
05:54:29 <elliott> Fiora: I'm just letting you know you're still welcome!!
05:54:51 <Bike> Fiora: wow there are ten welcomes in this log.
05:54:59 <Bike> on the first day, i mean.
05:55:02 <Fiora> wait, was I actually right @_@
05:55:09 <Fiora> or wait no I said 7
05:55:10 <Bike> no you underestimated
05:55:11 <Fiora> help I have no memory
05:55:18 <Fiora> it was dan who said 10
05:55:27 <elliott> you repressed the memories of the other 3 welcomes. it was just too much
05:55:45 <Gracenotes> the welcome isn't even that great. we devote a large portion of it to advertising for unrelated channels.
05:56:02 <Fiora> I don't need to repress memories, I just lose them normally -_-
05:56:33 <Bike> it sounds convenient when you put it that way
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05:57:42 -!- oerjan has set topic: The welcomes of doom | 22nd IOCCC is open: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | jsvine is doing an esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q/viewform | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
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09:00:38 <lambdabot> Roujo said 2d 12h 24m 11s ago: Oh hai
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13:42:50 <boily> good dreamy morning!
13:43:12 <boily> I finally had a dream where something happens!
13:43:46 <boily> granted, I was only pestling cheese in a salad bowl with a potato masher, but still! it was something!
13:43:57 <Roujo> You gotta take what you can, eh
13:44:12 <boily> who knows, maybe I was cooking pierogies...
13:44:36 <Roujo> Probably. P(that) = .76
13:45:26 <boily> the first time I tried, they were delicious. but because I had never seen them, I didn't have a reference scale. a girl at school who saw them told me they were strangely gigantic :D
13:45:41 <boily> tried IRL, s'entend.
13:47:01 <boily> there's a nice café on côte st-luc near villa-maria that serves brunches on Sunday mornings. there's always a bunch of nicely burned pierogies with your plate. they taste good.
13:58:14 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH. someone asked a question on SO, the question was closed because there's an accepted answer, and the answer links to a dead github repo.
13:58:31 * boily smashes his forehead on an empty corner of his desk.
14:01:15 <metasepia> Your divination: "Shake" to "Shake"
14:05:23 -!- Pouti has joined.
14:05:54 <boily> Pouti: c'est que tu fais là, toi?
14:06:32 <boily> Roujo: stop conspiring with my bro behind my back, you fiend.
14:08:12 <boily> `learn Pouti is boily's brother. he's also Canadian, and he closes the Roujo pointer loop.
14:09:03 <Roujo> `relcome "The Boilys"
14:09:06 <HackEgo> "The: Boilys": Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
14:09:06 <boily> no worries. he's a nice guy. worse that can happen is for you to be even more Canadianned than usual. probably some weirdness and vile puns on the side.
14:10:36 <boily> Taneb: don't you have a brother too?
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14:15:04 <Taneb> boily, yes I have a brother
14:15:39 <Taneb> He's not that in to esolanging
14:15:48 <Taneb> You can find him playing League of Legends most hours of the day
14:17:45 <boily> oh. that most common modern drug.
14:19:58 <Roujo> saturationsaturationsaturationsaturation
14:20:08 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, yeah
14:20:15 <boily> Roujo: doing chemistry?
14:20:29 <Roujo> Nah, just laughing
14:20:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, that's a horrible thing to say about your brother
14:20:38 <Roujo> It's just that I don't play LoL, so I might have done it wrong >_>
14:20:57 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, he's my younger brother, it's practically my duty to say horrible things about him
14:21:46 <Roujo> No, it's your duty to set an example and support him
14:22:00 <Roujo> At least, that's what I try to do with my younger brothers >_>
14:22:54 <boily> my brother and I are the same, but him more than me.
14:23:35 <boily> btw, it's time to ask the The Question.
14:23:45 <boily> Pouti, what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh?
14:24:00 <Roujo> dat gratuitous tréma
14:24:02 <boily> (I already know the coördinates)
14:24:16 <boily> Roujo: it is fär from gratuitous̈! it
14:25:30 <boily> that's beside the (pair of) point.
14:26:12 <Phantom_Hoover> shouldn't he be filling that information into jsvine's survey anyway
14:26:48 <Roujo> Shouldn't boily pretty much know the information already anyway? =P
14:26:50 <boily> of course, but I think we don't have access to the results yet.
14:27:29 <boily> Roujo: about the coördinates, yes. but not the body weigh. I'd say about the same as me, but you never know.
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14:28:06 <Pouti> I will settle the matter : N 46, W71, 145 lbs
14:28:25 <Roujo> 5-letter nicks UNITE
14:29:33 <boily> see how us Canadians are polite and coöperative! our entries are well formatted and meaningful!
14:29:37 * boily glares at FreeFull
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14:30:35 <Roujo> cat boily | cat > boily
14:30:57 <Roujo> cat boily | echo > boily
14:31:06 <Roujo> `run cat dog | echo > dog
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14:32:36 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: no idea.
14:33:06 <boily> meanwhile, I hate python. “TypeError: browse() takes at least 4 arguments (4 given)”.
14:40:28 <FreeFull> Yeah, I'm a thin vertical thing rather than a vegetable
14:43:34 <Roujo> They're not mutually exclusive, though
14:44:00 <boily> so, FreeFull is a carrot?
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14:49:22 * boily shoots Roujo with a punctual bow
14:49:31 <Roujo> You're late, boily
14:49:35 <Roujo> Doesn't work like that
14:51:12 <boily> time is of no importance. space doesn't matter. empty your mind, open your soul, and receive the blessings of a Happy Meal® toy.
14:57:09 <Roujo> Thinking of Maud, you forget everything else
15:01:38 <Roujo> cat pacifism >> boily
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15:04:37 <Phantom_Hoover> what's the difference between cat pacifism and normal pacifism
15:05:05 <Roujo> Aloofness, for one
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15:10:25 <Vorpal> <boily> ooooooh. Vorpal has a secret identity! <-- it was my previous nick
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15:11:35 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: I am not violent. it is Beneficial Preemptive Behaviour Correction (ISO 12800⅞)
15:12:47 <Pouti> Just trying to see if i can create photoinduced anistropy in chalcogenide glasses by appropriate exposure to linearly polarized light
15:13:47 <AnotherTest> Phantom_Hoover: Why do you associate belgium with hitler
15:19:07 <boily> @tell oerjan according to wiki's chart of diaphonemes to regional dialects, /poːlət/.
15:20:17 <Roujo> `echo @tell Roujo Hays
15:20:42 <Roujo> Well that's a shame
15:21:26 <boily> Roujo: HackEgo is unloopable. it inserts a ZWSP before any /^[^:alpha:]/.
15:22:03 <Roujo> So it can't give commands to other bots, got it
15:22:17 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
15:22:21 <Deewiant> Just make a bot with a prefix that matches [:alpha:]
15:22:24 <Roujo> At least I got it right =P
15:22:40 <Roujo> ~echo @tell Roujo Hats
15:23:08 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo Hats"]}
15:23:15 * boily pats metasepia and gives a candy jellyfish
15:23:24 <Roujo> Right, @echo is a bit more involved =P
15:23:47 <boily> for no apparent reason, lambdabots picks up logs from my bot.
15:28:27 <AnotherTest> that ignored the first character of every message send by hackego, you could make it loop
15:28:43 <AnotherTest> unless there is another defence mechanism I'm not aware of :(
15:29:19 <Roujo> Alternatively, I could just make Emily ignore any invisible character
15:30:04 <Roujo> But that would break bold and color, and I don't want that
15:30:57 <boily> you ought to make your bot join this channel.
15:31:09 <Roujo> I should fix her first
15:31:20 <Roujo> For some reason, her prefix detection is broken
15:31:52 <Roujo> She'll react to any keyword she knows, even if it wasn't addressed to her
15:33:23 <boily> I'm curious to see what would the aftermath of an epic fungot/Emily match would be...
15:33:23 <fungot> boily: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week, i fnord kara to hold me until i fell over....
15:36:04 <Roujo> I'll try to fix her, then I'll bring her in
15:36:20 <Roujo> However, the nickname "Emily" is already taken
15:36:28 <Roujo> As is "Aurora", her usual alternative
15:37:24 <boily> fungot: any advice on an alternate name?
15:37:24 <fungot> boily: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week,
15:37:39 <Roujo> I don't know how to take this
15:37:53 <boily> fungot: any different advice?
15:37:55 <Roujo> I'll start by fixing her =P
15:38:03 <AnotherTest> boily: my bot (if that was the one you meant) is even more annoying than fungot, if turned on
15:38:03 <fungot> AnotherTest: perhaps, if i could but learn is when you're fairies, you probably want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has. you came through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through and through
15:38:35 <AnotherTest> fizzie: There's a loop in the markov chain :(
15:38:44 <boily> Roujo: you could nick her "AndThrough" for the match.
15:38:58 <boily> AnotherTest: you have a bot? never seen it.
15:39:15 <AnotherTest> if it learns from the channel, here is a fix: through and this goes on
15:39:15 <Roujo> Twist: AnotherTest is his own bot
15:39:44 <AnotherTest> possibly another fix: and through because I don't know the other
15:41:08 <AnotherTest> due to people on another network spamming it
15:41:09 <boily> not a problem. I am intrigued, and of a experimento-scientific mood today.
15:41:30 <AnotherTest> well I guess that's what's happenes when you give a bot op
15:41:45 <AnotherTest> it has a cool mini-programming-language-kind of thing too
15:43:35 <fizzie> AnotherTest: It's not the only one.
15:45:03 <fizzie> AnotherTest: And it might not be an actual loop in the model, I think there's some bug in fungot's interpretation of them; because I've debugged some earlier loops by asking my Perl prototyping code for the actual probabilities, and they're not quite loopy.
15:45:03 <fungot> fizzie: is that something you know and and the cases that required to actually mutate the original ( sorted, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance,
15:46:47 <fizzie> AnotherTest: (If it is an actual loop, your fixes might not help, because it's most likely a loop with a longer context only; I think I need to add and through and through some exits through and through and like this.)
15:46:51 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
15:47:01 <fizzie> Ah, well, fungot style...
15:47:01 <fungot> fizzie:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov
15:47:29 <AnotherTest> boily: okay here it comes. I can't enable its text generator immediately because it doesn't have a memory file yet
15:48:04 <fizzie> AnotherTest: It's in fact a loop from some other style, copied over to fungot style.
15:48:04 <fungot> fizzie: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there ain't no difference from before! i'm being held prisoner on other subjects, the european council decided at its meeting on 30 april, or even this very difficult issue is discussed, it should be deleted, not merged. but new england flood of may, 1765, curwen's only child, it's ancient history now...
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15:51:32 <fizzie> As a general rule, the smaller models are somewhat more prone to repetition for the obvious reason.
15:51:49 <fizzie> Also that's a nice blend of europarl, lovecraft and whatnot.
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15:52:17 <fizzie> irc and youtube, I think.
15:52:54 <metasepia> The European Parliament (abbreviated as Europarl or the EP) is the directly elected parliamentary institution of the European Union (EU).
15:55:05 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
15:55:28 <fizzie> fungot: What do you think of the state of the economy?
15:55:31 <fungot> fizzie: i voted in favour of the abolition of controls on the phasing out of single-hull oil tankers and safety in our energy policy. first of all, i would like to argue for continuing development aid. the commission is keeping a close watch on affairs, and this aid begins with the definition of works contracts, public authorities and administrations have an important role in fnord terrorists crossing from its territory into ir
15:56:01 <fizzie> Oh no, fnord terrorists.
15:56:31 <fizzie> (Also: phasing out safety in our energy policy?)
15:57:43 <fizzie> fungot: Are you in favour of phasing out safety in general?
15:58:04 <fizzie> I think it got tired of me.
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16:02:43 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: mr president, i plead for fnord action at the same time, try to improve the existing regulations in this sphere, like others, i approve of parliament's insistence in giving the european parliament should contemplate a debate at european level.
16:03:23 -!- conehead has joined.
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16:04:44 <Roujo> samantus: Command!
16:04:55 <Roujo> samantus: Bod is my bod
16:04:57 <Roujo> samantus: Bod is my bod
16:04:58 <Roujo> samantus: Bod is my bod
16:04:59 <Roujo> samantus: Bod is my bod
16:05:33 <Roujo> Most of them being about bod
16:06:17 <HackEgo> id: "Test.";: No such user
16:06:19 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched ...
16:06:43 <AnotherTest> Ok I need to change the character that starts a command...
16:06:53 <AnotherTest> but I don't have access... so I need to restart it :(
16:07:18 -!- samantus has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:10:05 <Roujo> All that's missing is a nick, now
16:13:32 -!- Emilie has joined.
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16:14:57 <Roujo> She has a couple of quirks, still
16:15:04 <Roujo> But she should be alright
16:16:10 <Roujo> Yeah, that has been on the todo list for way too damn long
16:16:22 <Emilie> Roujo: Results of 3d5: 10 <3
16:16:23 <Emilie> Roujo: Rolls: 4, 3, 3 <3
16:16:42 <Roujo> Yeah, sounds like it wouldn't be use by accident
16:17:20 -!- samantus has joined.
16:17:23 <Roujo> %regex compile Hi, my name is (\w) and I'm ([0-9]+) years old
16:17:23 <Emilie> Roujo: Pattern compiled! <3
16:17:34 <Roujo> %regex match Hi, my name is Roujo and I'm 22 years old
16:17:35 <AnotherTest> I'll have "" for the command language and '' for the configuration
16:17:52 <samantus> AnotherTest: Didnt work samantus
16:18:00 <Roujo> %regex compile Hi, my name is ([A-z]+) and I'm ([0-9]+) years old
16:18:00 <Emilie> Roujo: Pattern compiled! <3
16:18:03 <Roujo> %regex match Hi, my name is Roujo and I'm 22 years old
16:18:04 <Emilie> Roujo: Group #1: Roujo <3
16:18:05 <Emilie> Roujo: Group #2: 22 <3
16:18:16 <Roujo> I should probably tone down the <3 part =P
16:19:30 <Gregor> 22 isn't less than three at all.
16:19:36 <Gregor> 22 is, in fact, greater than three.
16:20:44 <jconn> AnotherTest: |value error: abc
16:22:24 -!- samantus has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:23:43 -!- samantus has joined.
16:24:00 <AnotherTest> "" id "I think this was the best option... if it works.";
16:24:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:24:24 <AnotherTest> I had a lot of trouble with this bot on a different network
16:24:50 <AnotherTest> 1) because it annoys people who write in caps to much (along with other stuff)
16:25:05 <AnotherTest> 2) because it eventually tries to kick those people (although it's not admin here)
16:25:23 <AnotherTest> 3) because it has a (disabled) feature to annoy people at random
16:26:01 -!- samantus has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:26:14 <Bike> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130818120421175 uh, wow.
16:26:45 <AnotherTest> In other words, the most annoying bot ever
16:26:49 -!- samantus has joined.
16:28:06 <fizzie> Point 4 looks more like a pro than a con.
16:28:38 <fizzie> It privmsging me "<samantus> Oops, seems like something went wrong..." after that comment was definitely more a con than a pro, though.
16:28:38 <samantus> fizzie: It privmsging me oops seems like something went wrong after that comment was definitely more a con
16:28:52 <fizzie> It seems to: keep happening.
16:29:42 <Roujo> Bike: Well crap =/
16:30:37 <AnotherTest> fizzie: does it happen for every message you send?
16:31:09 <AnotherTest> I think everyone is getting annoyed, because the command character is officially the empty string
16:31:15 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched ...
16:31:33 -!- samantus has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:32:45 <AnotherTest> I hope it's fixed now, and it won't annoy you anymore
16:32:48 -!- samantus has joined.
16:33:28 <AnotherTest> pff, "" is a bad choice, the configuration file thinks that's a string
16:34:21 -!- samantus has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:35:09 -!- samantus has joined.
16:35:10 <AnotherTest> I would probably have done all of this in some empty channel
16:46:36 <Roujo> That would probably be a good idea, yeah =P
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16:48:14 <boily> back from lunch. so samantus is another's?
16:48:14 <samantus> boily: So samantus is anothers
16:55:21 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched ...
16:55:41 <AnotherTest> It does, but lambdabot reacts due to the >
16:57:35 <samantus> AnotherTest: Something like samantus
16:57:47 <samantus> AnotherTest: Not something like samantus
16:58:24 <boily> AnotherTest: I agree. your bot is most uniquely annoying :p
16:58:48 <Roujo> Well, we can always just talk in notices
16:58:58 <Roujo> But that's a tad annoying-er
16:59:54 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure lambdabot can in fact ignore someone, but you need to be a more powerfuller person to set it to do so.
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17:00:16 <boily> who is the powerfullest of this channel? is it elliott?
17:00:29 <fizzie> In regards to lambdabot, that's a safe bet.
17:00:33 <fizzie> (Doesn't he run it these days?)
17:00:52 <fizzie> I believe there are some other lambdabot operators on channel too.
17:00:56 -!- ^v has joined.
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17:06:10 <fizzie> Aw, I was hoping for a list.
17:06:41 <Gregor> Only admins are permitted to know who the admins are.
17:06:42 <fizzie> It'd be "@ignore + somebody", but that also needs privvelegs.
17:07:50 <lambdabot> system provides: listchans listmodules listservers list echo uptime
17:08:24 <Roujo> Now that's just sad
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17:10:24 <Fiora> sorry, you can't rely on a bot to check your privilege for you! :3
17:10:39 <shachaf> Gregor: Not even admins are permitted to know.
17:12:30 <samantus> > lambdabot is an annoying person/bot.
17:12:31 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched...
17:13:00 <samantus> > boily is an annoying person/bot.
17:13:01 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched...
17:13:37 <fizzie> Nice outlook on the world: everyone's an annoying person/bot.
17:14:00 <AnotherTest> ]]whois $x = add $x " is a VERY annoying person/bot (just not boily and AnotherTest)";
17:14:11 <samantus> > fizzie is an annoying person/bot.
17:14:26 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched...
17:14:37 <AnotherTest> ]]whois $x = add $x " is a VERY annoying person/bot (just not boily and AnotherTest)";
17:14:38 * ^v knocks out kmc with a hammer and begins peeling off large portions of his skin, ^v then ties kmc to a ceiling fan where he repeatively is hit in the head by lamps
17:15:19 <Roujo> Internet is going down here
17:15:19 <AnotherTest> ]]let whois $x = add $x " is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to boily/AnotherTest)";
17:15:24 <boily> ^v: what did kmc do to warrant such helicoïdal ceiling punishment?
17:15:34 <samantus> > Roujo is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to boily/AnotherTest)
17:15:35 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Roujo'Not in scope: `is'
17:16:12 <AnotherTest> It could do if statements although I think I would have to add a built-in function for that
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17:23:05 <boily> Harken to the Voice of KmcKmcKmcKmcKmc! Listen to His Paroles and Questionments! Hear the Ceiling Fan Fwop Him Around Lamps!
17:23:17 <fizzie> I was under the impression that either kmc or shachaf were lambdabot mad-mins. If that's the case, one of them could maybe have it ignore that bot?
17:23:43 <fizzie> (There's only so many "parse errors" and "not in scopes" that a person can take.)
17:24:06 <boily> can you chain metasepia to the haskell delegation?
17:24:25 <boily> fizzie: behold the uncropped error messages that a marine animal can produce!
17:24:30 <AnotherTest> fizzie: I don't see parse error there :<removethis, it's to avoid warn>)
17:24:31 <Bike> ~echo ]] add "1 " (mul "+ 1 " 5);
17:24:42 <lambdabot> `.' (imported from Data.Function),
17:24:45 <kmc> but i think shachaf is
17:25:05 <FreeFull> :t let (.:) = (.).(.) in mconcat .: replicate
17:25:56 <samantus> > 1* 5* 5* 5* 5* 5* 5* 5* 5* 5* 5
17:26:29 <AnotherTest> I wonder whether I an actually trick it into an infinte loop
17:26:46 <fizzie> New bot implies new botloops, I suppose.
17:27:14 <fizzie> Oh, that sort of loop.
17:27:38 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|jconn)!
17:27:50 <shachaf> (unless that's what "mad-min" means)
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17:27:55 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|jconn|samantus)!
17:28:12 <kmc> why was I attacked by ^v just now
17:28:20 <samantus> AnotherTest: If we get fungot to say samantus
17:28:23 <fungot> AnotherTest: madam president, it is customary to accept roll-call votes after time. finally, i want to highlight the derisory nature of this parliament the development and promotion of cultural diversity, but these certainly will not be helpful to consumers either, since the proposal has been welcomed by many speakers in the debate, because peace, one of your colleagues will be voting in the various countries of the union, not
17:28:26 <boily> fizzie: could you subtly, like, I don't know, maybe accidentally, perhaps, unignore metasepia? like, in a totally fortuitous manner.
17:28:47 <Bike> somehow i doubt nixon has said "samantus"
17:29:02 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:3: parse error on input `,'
17:29:03 <fungot> AnotherTest: commission. ( de) mr president, i wish to emphasise that between the first and the third pillar into the community legal order and its shared institutions mean that it has to be done in relation to farming. one of the most alert, able and fnord of this parliament, as the treaties have to be accompanied by an exhaustive study. the council could not amend the social partners, the us should pause and reflect on the co
17:29:04 <boily> samantus: who was kmc? what was his secret identity? is he also Vorpal?
17:29:04 <samantus> boily: His secret identity is he also vorpal
17:29:15 <kmc> samantus: what do you do?
17:29:28 <samantus> AnotherTest: Fungot already ignores samantus
17:29:29 <fungot> AnotherTest: madam president, i also believe it is most unfortunate that an exception should not constitute a means of channelling the future funding of development projects in south africa, the meda programme was threatened until last night. the years go by and i hope that you will be putting forward ideas for joint management and, above all, we have no truck with greedy financial cheats certainly not with the intention of the
17:29:37 <fizzie> AnotherTest: That's what the ^ignore there was all about.
17:29:52 <fizzie> boily: What, do you have a fungot botloop you've been itching to test or something?
17:29:53 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, i will conclude, if we could in fact stir up ill-feeling, resentment and a great french diplomat used to say, therefore, that learning at least two areas: the establishment of information systems is what it is defending. this is a growing problem. according to the most recent elections in east timor, despite being full of good intentions, through good management of these processes and three-quarters of the
17:30:02 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:11: parse error on input `;'
17:30:22 <boily> fizzie: me? oh. no. absolutely not. what would make you believe that?
17:30:43 <fizzie> europarl is nice, but does result in somewhat overly long lines.
17:30:44 <Bike> pretty sure you need fizmin powers.
17:30:51 <fizzie> (Those politicians, they're so verbose.)
17:31:05 <AnotherTest> samantus doesn't seem to be learning a lot
17:31:05 <samantus> AnotherTest: To be accompanied by an exhaustive study the council could not amend the social partners the us should pause and reflect on the everyones an annoying
17:31:20 <fungot> AnotherTest: i think i made myself understood. indeed i fear that we would like to know the commission's point of view, we in the european parliament and the constitutional court' s statute. this will provide the opportunity for which i thank you for them, because they too have their dignity and it is time for us to develop a strong eu foreign policy and development aid for bolivia. as one of you makes use of funds for objectiv
17:32:27 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|jconn|samantus)!
17:32:38 <fizzie> I suppose in the interests of scientific inquiry...
17:33:10 <AnotherTest> fizze: could you remove samantus from that list just to test :D?
17:33:10 <samantus> AnotherTest: You remove samantus from that list just to test or something
17:33:28 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|jconn)!
17:33:42 <AnotherTest> okay, I will close it if things get too bad
17:33:55 <fizzie> I'll re-add it if I stop monitoring the situation.
17:34:07 <fungot> AnotherTest: mr president, commissioner, we expect really concrete proposals permitting very rapid progress. in the second world war. of course, it will be particularly beneficial in all aspects relating to sexual and reproductive health, the protection of the environment and the rapporteur will have the possibility of declaring biological rest periods on the basis of article 103a, analysis and an indication of the european fam
17:34:07 <fungot> samantus: i should like to thank the rapporteur for his report on the revision of the treaty of amsterdam provided the european union
17:34:07 <samantus> fungot: Treaty of amsterdam provided the european fam
17:34:08 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:3: parse error on input `,'
17:34:08 <fungot> samantus: the fnord report, and i hope that the council understands parliament' s committee chairpersons, whose work will be needed, since illegal immigrants living in several european countries.
17:34:08 <samantus> fungot: Whose work will be voting in the debate because peace one of you makes use of funds for objectiv
17:34:08 <fungot> samantus: madam president, ladies and gentlemen, we have the difficulty of attracting researchers to this field.
17:34:08 <fizzie> Anyhow, the logs have some quite impressive botloops.
17:34:08 <samantus> fungot: Of attracting researchers to this field
17:34:09 <fungot> samantus: mr president, commissioner, i will reiterate the facts of that case. but the court of justice. examples of this could now be effectively carried by members of parliament have shown throughout the conciliation procedure has thus very quickly led to a serious irregularity: we are no nearer to achieving the objectives it has set up a group of fnord, a serious malfunction in the department of mrs wallstrm, has announced,
17:34:09 <samantus> fungot: Parliament have shown throughout the conciliation procedure has thus very quickly led to a serious malfunction in the second world war of course it will be putting forward ideas for joint management and above all we have a bot
17:34:11 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|jconn|samantus)!
17:34:20 <boily> holy botloop, batman.
17:34:42 <fizzie> I guess my ^ignore was kind of unnecessary, because fungot would've stopped at that point even without it.
17:34:43 <fungot> fizzie: madam president, there are some things which have direct impact. years ago, the european institutions.
17:34:50 <fizzie> (There's the only-four-messages-in-a-row rule.)
17:34:55 <ion> Respecting the RFC would obliterate any possibility of a bot loop.
17:35:09 <boily> ion: there are standards?
17:35:10 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|jconn|samantus)!
17:35:17 <fizzie> ion: That'd be so 1980s.
17:35:22 <ion> boily: For bot/human communication, yes.
17:35:36 <Bike> boily: bots are supposed to use notices instead of privmsgs.
17:35:47 <ion> boily: There’s a dedicated command for bot messages. Bots aren’t allowed to trigger stuff from them, only human messages.
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17:36:22 <AnotherTest> ion: samantus isn't a bot, it's a real person!
17:36:45 <HackEgo> azaq23: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:36:49 <ion> I will only believe she is a real person when she adds a random delay before responding.
17:37:09 <boily> samantus: what nationality are you?
17:37:55 <AnotherTest> ion: I did that once. Except it wasn't random. I calcuated using the average reading and typing speed of a human
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17:38:42 <samantus> > ion is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to boily/AnotherTest)ion is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to boily/AnotherTest)ion is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to boily/AnotherTest)ion is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to boily/AnotherTest)ion is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to
17:38:43 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatche...
17:38:59 -!- copumpkin has joined.
17:42:55 <HackEgo> samantus: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:43:35 <AnotherTest> (I guess since he didn't get that yet, now was the time)
17:44:13 <AnotherTest> I fear it is generating a very long message
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17:48:03 <fizzie> There is a noticeable delay when fungot is generating long sequences of babble; it's perhaps not terribly optimized code.
17:48:03 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, commissioner, that those of us from andalusia ask this parliament to get to grips with this is to be hoped that parliament will probably extend tomorrow does nobody any service. then, things will change and meetings will become frequent, because that is what we need now is to join.
17:48:19 <boily> are there any best practices on optimising befunge?
17:48:45 <samantus> AnotherTest: Yes i am powerful
17:49:04 <fizzie> boily: Not that I know of, but you could derive some by looking at the implementation strategies in implementations that see use in production environments.
17:49:15 <AnotherTest> samantus: I didn't ask you. I told you. Do you understand the difference?
17:49:15 <samantus> AnotherTest: Understand the difference
17:49:48 <boily> fizzie: you mean to say there is live befunge in production environments?
17:49:59 <fizzie> boily: Well, what do you call fungot?
17:49:59 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, thank you for your thoughts, suggestions and criticisms. this also offers new opportunities and new resources for investment in third countries.
17:50:20 <boily> fizzie: oh hm. yeah. I had a brain lapse for a moment there.
17:51:10 <AnotherTest> fizzie: the difference between samantus and fungot is that samantus uses words from the input as the first words for its message. I'm not sure whether this is actually good.
17:51:10 <samantus> AnotherTest: Its message im not sure whether this is to be a good idea yeah
17:51:10 <fungot> AnotherTest: mr president, safety aspects also militate against completion of the internal market.
17:51:54 <fizzie> fungot: Stop trying to show off your education by using words like "militate".
17:51:55 <fungot> fizzie: madam president, ladies and gentlemen, we live in the dignity that is the difference between an observatory and an agency. this agency will be active soon, because it would then be the international community must not only ensure that appropriate rules exist. the mafia does not exist.
17:52:57 <samantus> AnotherTest: Would you like another botwar
17:53:20 <AnotherTest> fizzie: we could have them join another channel
17:53:30 <AnotherTest> I think samantus could learn a great deal from fungot
17:53:31 <samantus> AnotherTest: Samantus could learn a great deal from fungot
17:53:31 <fungot> AnotherTest: mr president, firstly, to ensure that the authority at community level. another point which gives cause for concern. nevertheless, it must be acknowledged that the chapter on employment in the european consumer.
17:54:04 <fizzie> AnotherTest: I can join it wherever you like, but it won't reply more than four lines consecutively to any one person, to prevent loops.
17:57:10 <fizzie> Not on a per-channel basis, no.
17:57:18 <fizzie> And running a second instance sounds a bit too much like work.
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18:26:31 <coppro> ugh, why doesn't tr do its output incrementally?
18:26:50 <coppro> anyone know a utility that will?
18:27:38 <boily> coppro: you could “perl -e” it?
18:27:59 <fizzie> GNU sed has a -u "unbuffered" mode.
18:28:39 <Deewiant> "load minimal amounts of data from the input files and flush the output buffers more often"
18:28:51 <Deewiant> "unbuffered" = "flush buffers more often"?
18:29:02 <Deewiant> I thought "unbuffered" = "no buffers to flush"
18:29:21 <boily> maybe they mean medium-rare buffered?
18:29:33 <fizzie> Deewiant: "Buffer both input and output as minimally as practical," to quote the manual. (Guess the name is a bit of a misnomer.)
18:30:43 <Deewiant> If it passes values greater than 1 to read I am disappoint
18:31:12 <fizzie> I think you will be disappoint, then.
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19:02:01 <Bike> http://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_philipsbrorochure1971_11672553/P850_P855_P860_Brochure_1971#page/n1/mode/2up memory cycle time is down to 1.6 µsec.
19:02:50 <Fiora> Bike: 840 nanoseconds!!
19:02:58 <Fiora> up to 32000 16-bit words!
19:03:06 <Bike> not one, but two fortran compilers
19:03:13 <Fiora> gosh old computers are great <3
19:03:16 <Bike> and two different one-pass assemblers
19:03:19 <Taneb> I wrote a program that draws the dragon curve
19:03:42 <Taneb> The dragon curve it drew is here: http://www.vandoorn.talktalk.net/Nathan's_Stuff/d.svg
19:04:02 <zzo38> What might be useful for some people is a Lisp variant which is designed for compiling into limited domain-specific virtual machines by programming their specification using that programming language itself; it would also include an interpreter to run directly and then compile whatever needs to compile, into a different VM.
19:04:24 <fizzie> Taneb: I made one too! http://zem.fi/?logo=ldragon
19:05:01 <Taneb> Your one is more animaty than mine
19:05:20 <Taneb> But mine is more detailed than yours
19:05:23 <Bike> zzo38: i'm not sure i can imagine a specification language for arbitrary machines.
19:05:34 <fizzie> Taneb: You can replace "ldragon" with "ifsdragon" to get the IFS version.
19:06:07 <boily> there's an IFS version of the dragon curve?
19:06:23 <boily> woooooooah... duuuuuuude...
19:06:25 <fizzie> boily: Yes. It's just two affine transformations.
19:06:55 <fizzie> [0.5 -0.5 0; 0.5 0.5 0] and [-0.5 -0.5 1; 0.5 -0.5 0].
19:07:08 <boily> fizzie: that reminds me I hacked a javascript IFS generator some time ago. it crashed firefox in a rather spectacular manner.
19:07:46 <zzo38> There is a dragon curve in TeX, too.
19:08:20 <Bike> well, i guess you could do verilog or something, that's probably not what you have in mind though, and you've already complained about things you've wanted in verilog.
19:08:48 <boily> hum. I have an unknown «.sln» file in a temp folder somewhere. what the fungot could it be.
19:08:48 <fungot> boily: madam president, mr salafranca, i understood your excellent report on which everyone agrees is needed at the end of the british government and of suppliers of internet products. they are now forced to recognize that, in drawing up my report.
19:09:27 <fizzie> The end of the British government? Sounds dramatic.
19:09:51 <boily> a Visual Studio Solution file??? Sounds foreboding.
19:10:05 <boily> (seriously, what the hell am I doing with that.)
19:10:24 <Bike> http://www.alislam.org/books/truth/british.html Well
19:10:31 <boily> anyone here who uses Visual Studio?
19:11:10 <zzo38> Bike : An idea is, the program will be written in this Lisp variant, which has the codes to specify translation into a simpler VM, such as checking if it is adding, dividing, etc, and then also features specific to the target VM.
19:11:45 <Bike> i dont unerstand.
19:12:27 <fizzie> boily: Does Visual Studio 6 count?
19:12:49 <boily> no idea. want to check the file?
19:13:07 <fizzie> I've always wanted to.
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19:13:40 -!- Taneb has joined.
19:14:00 <fizzie> (Version 6 didn't have .sln files, though; it's from the versions numbered 20xx, I think.)
19:14:15 <boily> darn. oh well, here goes the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xif4owzeba45a41/electro.sln
19:14:54 <fizzie> Unless they've changed things around, that's not a Visual Studio solution file.
19:15:11 <fizzie> It at least used to be a text-based format.
19:15:22 <fizzie> See http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb165951(v=vs.90).aspx for a VS2008 example, for example.
19:16:36 <boily> the file utility only says that it's data.
19:16:41 <zzo38> Bike: I don't really entirely know either. What I mean though is you have some function which reads some intermediate instructions (it might even read itself!) and then compiles it as a add instruction, branch instruction, etc, into a bytecode buffer, which might be used by a secondary optimizer and various other things, pass that result to another function to build the executable file for the VM.
19:17:16 <Bike> oh, so just providing a standard VM to assemble from. Is that like LLVM?
19:17:34 <zzo38> Bike: I suppose a little bit like it, but not really a lot like it.
19:18:23 <boily> zzo38: you're particularly hthian today, if I may say so.
19:18:53 <fizzie> boily: It's a sound file.
19:19:04 <zzo38> For one thing LLVM is for more powerful computers, not domain-specific VM, and lacks some other features; it also has some features which are too strong, and doesn't generally write itself (it isn't Lisp).
19:19:12 <fizzie> boily: A not too shabby-sounding techno song, based on the first five seconds.
19:19:41 <boily> fizzie: oh. what did you use to play it?
19:19:47 <fizzie> boily: I don't know how to determine the real sampling rate, but you can get a listenable version with sox -t raw -e signed-integer -b 16 -c 1 -r 16000 electro.sln something.wav.
19:19:58 <fizzie> It might be accidentally down- or upsampled a bit.
19:20:07 <fizzie> Also mixed to single channel from two, or something.
19:20:41 <fizzie> Asterisk has a linear-pcm file format called "SLINEAR" with a .sln extension.
19:20:51 <boily> a remnant from asterisk!
19:21:23 <boily> now I understand why I had an mp3 along with it. those were experiments with Asterisk.
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19:21:58 <fizzie> How similar does the mp3 sound to that sox output?
19:22:12 <boily> lemme upload the mp3.
19:23:16 <boily> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/Electronic_Attack_-_Salzmanufaktur_-_Minimental.mp3
19:23:19 <zzo38> Some machines I expect can be target can include Z-machine, Nintendo Family Computer, Glulx, Z80, and others.
19:23:58 <zzo38> (and MegaZeux Robotic bytecode)
19:24:00 <AnotherTest> I'm having trouble connecting my TI84+ with my laptop with debian on it
19:24:56 <fizzie> boily: Seems that it should've been 8 kHz, which I suppose makes more sense in a telephony context. (Though not *that* much more sense! We live in the age of AMR-WB and all.)
19:27:26 <Bike> hm, maybe in my FPGA class i could try out some fucked up processor architectures, like tree-based
19:28:15 <pikhq> fizzie: Not to mention Opus.
19:28:46 <Bike> zzo38: any suggestions for fucked up architectures?
19:28:46 <pikhq> But alas, 8kHz 8 bit mu-law will be here forever.
19:29:01 <fizzie> Funny fact: "typical" pitch for a male speaker (around 100 Hz) is not part of the frequency spectrum carried by a regular telephone line (300 to 3400 Hz), yet people don't perceive a notable difference in the pitch of a speaker over the phone.
19:29:02 <boily> fizzie: well, Asterisk is a little bit weird when it comes to sampling rates.
19:29:21 <Bike> fizzie: we don't?
19:29:22 <zzo38> Bike: I don't know.
19:29:30 <pikhq> fizzie: That figure seems remarkably low.
19:29:34 <Bike> zzo38: come on, you know all kinds of weird architectures.
19:30:09 <AnotherTest> any suggestions for connecting my ti device :(?
19:30:25 <fizzie> Bike: Well, I mean, you can say it sounds vaguely "low-quality", but that's about all. (Because the harmonics are all in the same place.)
19:30:28 <zzo38> Bike: Look in esolang wiki; some things I have written about and some you can see in other pages I have linked to
19:30:34 <boily> AnotherTest: /dev/ttyUSB0 like a manly man?
19:30:46 <Bike> wow, a whole wiki for weird computer stuff. why didn't i think of that!
19:30:53 <Bike> (seriously thanks i actually wasn't)
19:31:07 <fizzie> pikhq: Well, maybe it's closer to 120 Hz, but it's somewhere around there.
19:31:42 <Bike> fizzie: oh, is it the missing... uh... whatever you call it. where you cut out the "main" (wrong word) tone but all the higher harmonics are there so people hear it illusionarily
19:31:54 <Bike> missing fundamental!
19:32:46 <fizzie> Bike: It's that sort of thing, right.
19:33:01 <pikhq> Especially when you consider that the *low* end of a tenor's range is 130 Hz.
19:33:09 <Bike> oh, it's in the wikipedia article. "Most common telephones cannot reproduce sounds lower than 300 Hz, but a male voice has a fundamental frequency approximately 150 Hz. Because of the missing fundamental effect, male voices still sound male over the telephone.[20]"
19:33:22 <zzo38> Bike: Some of the things in esolang wiki are related to computer hardware, so that is the parts I meant.
19:33:28 <fizzie> Well, you know, speaking is not singing.
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19:33:35 <Bike> zzo38: right. i'll look, once i get my fpga
19:33:40 <AnotherTest> boily: would it help if I installed libusb
19:33:48 <fizzie> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004974.html has a graph where the range seems to be something like 80-140 Hz.
19:33:52 <pikhq> fizzie: No, but the singing pitches roughly correspond to speaking pitch.
19:34:14 <fizzie> (It's about finding a relationship between number of offspring and voice pitch.)
19:34:33 <pikhq> Someone who sings tenor will tend to speak at frequencies somewhere within the tenor range.
19:34:53 <zzo38> Another idea I have is Z-machine interpreter in Verilog (or VHDL).
19:35:23 <fizzie> "Stemple, et al., report a mean fundamental frequency for male voices of 106 Hz with a range from 77 Hz to 482 Hz. For female voices the mean was 193 Hz with a range from 137 Hz to 634 Hz. These averages were based on the production of a sustained vowel /a/."
19:36:30 * pikhq *was* aware that a significant amount of the variation in voices was not because of the fundamental frequency, though...
19:37:04 <zzo38> One thing on esolang wiki, though, is TOGA computer; I think it can be implemented using only a small number of 74xx series ICs.
19:37:10 <fizzie> I've never done any speaker identification stuff, and in speech recognition we try our very best to ignore all this speaker-dependent stuff. :p
19:37:39 <Bike> great, now i want to quantify my voice's timbre.
19:37:49 <Fiora> so is the fundamental frequency, like, the lowest peak frequency in a spectrum chart?
19:37:54 <Bike> not that that's a sensible thing, i guess
19:38:32 <fizzie> Bike: You can probably use Praat to start with -- http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/ -- it's very popular, esp. among the more human-oriented folks.
19:38:36 <pikhq> Fiora: Typically. It's also the one of highest amplitude in a spectrum chart.
19:38:50 <Bike> Fiora: when you perceive a pitch what you're actually hearing is some frequency (the fundamental) along with higher "overtones" at integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. so if you talk at 200 Hz, there are overtones at 400, 600, bla bla.
19:38:59 * Fiora pulls up the audacity spectrum plotter thing and tries it on her voice recordings from before
19:39:00 <zzo38> One of the ICs is a programmable binary counter.
19:39:14 <Bike> that's not a real phoneme!!!
19:39:20 <Fiora> 231hz, 459hz, 701hz, 947hz ...
19:39:32 <Fiora> I guess that's pretty near the mean
19:39:39 <fizzie> Fiora: You might want to invest in a piece of software that can generate a spectrogram, things are very much clearer when you get some time dimensions in there.
19:39:57 <fizzie> (At least last I looked, Audacity just computes a spectrum from a selected snippet.)
19:40:00 <boily> Bike: “a” is not a phoneme?
19:40:07 <Bike> well, it's a letter.
19:40:07 <Fiora> yeah, I just selected a medium-pitch vowel sound XD
19:40:22 <Fiora> actually I think it was a schwa.
19:40:30 <pikhq> Got a decent bit of use out of it when I was writing a square wave generator for no good reason.
19:40:33 <fizzie> Fiora: If you plot a spectrogram, you can see the formant tracks with some clarity.
19:40:57 <Bike> shit what's a formant
19:41:12 <fizzie> Bike: They're the resonances of the whatsitcalled, the tube.
19:41:26 <pikhq> It was particularly silly, too. Additive synthesis and dither.
19:41:32 <boily> Bike: significative peaks that uniquely define a sound.
19:41:33 <Bike> no samantus you may fucking not
19:41:34 <samantus> Bike: Samantus you may fucking not
19:41:39 <Bike> haha every time
19:41:44 <fizzie> Bike: Vocal tract! That.
19:41:53 <boily> samantus: flblblblblbl.
19:41:54 <Bike> fizzie: oh like part of the anatomy
19:41:57 <Bike> boily: try saying "wat"
19:42:11 <fizzie> Bike: It gets modelled as a variable-diameter cylinder all the time.
19:42:14 <Bike> no, jjust wat by itself
19:42:56 <boily> yes. I did say wat. maybe with a slight French accent, but wat.
19:43:03 <Bike> just itself on a line.
19:43:37 <boily> samantus: go fungot yourself.
19:43:38 <fungot> boily: we all want to see that our issues are given the opportunity of presenting to you the message that we are one of the points of difference between parliament's committee on the environment, public health and consumer policy are not great in monetary terms to the importance of the issue we are now drafting a european union rule and making it possible for us to do.
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19:43:52 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
19:44:00 <fizzie> The europarl is a bit too noisy for permanent use.
19:44:04 <AnotherTest> boily: You must understand that samantus is still in a young phase of his life. He must learn a lot.
19:44:04 <samantus> AnotherTest: A young phase of his life he must learn a great french diplomat used to be accompanied by an exhaustive study the council could not amend the social partners the us should pause and reflect on the co
19:44:26 <Bike> odd conversation to have on irc
19:44:27 <boily> AnotherTest: has it reached the “no” phase yet?
19:44:34 <boily> Bike: nothing is odd on IRC. hth.
19:44:36 <AnotherTest> fizzie: behold the damage thou hast done! (or rather your bot)
19:44:54 <fungot> fizzie: i understand that far
19:44:57 <Bike> fizzie: well now i'm realizing i've never really looked into the anatomy of speech despite hearing about it :V
19:45:15 <Bike> "there are, like, cords??" -- me
19:45:23 <AnotherTest> samantus: Willst thou draw near the nature of the gods? Draw near them then, in being merciful.
19:45:23 <samantus> AnotherTest: The nature of this could now be effectively carried by a regular telephone line 300 to 3400 hz yet people dont perceive a pitch what youre actually hearing is some frequency the fundamental frequency so if you talk at 200 hz there are some other lambdabot operators on channel too
19:46:36 <Bike> fizzie: oh, reminds me, you know this is up now: http://archive.org/details/bstj-archives
19:46:39 <samantus> AnotherTest: Proud of you samantus
19:46:55 <AnotherTest> Ok, now I'm no longer proud of you. Stupid samantus.
19:46:56 <samantus> AnotherTest: No longer proud of you makes use of funds for objectiv
19:47:06 <fizzie> Bike: I did not know that was up.
19:47:41 <Bike> well now you do. i don't know if it has anything in there that's relevant to you but whatever.
19:47:53 <AnotherTest> samantus: Please tell me something I didn't know.
19:47:53 <samantus> AnotherTest: Please tell me something i didnt ask you i told you do
19:48:02 <fizzie> Bike: I might have cited a BSTJ paper somewhere, there's a lot of "first published there" stuff.
19:48:30 <fizzie> Quite a lot of it is of course bit more telecoms than what I do.
19:48:48 <HackEgo> 1003) <boily> I hate telecom abbreviations I hate telecom abbreviations good morning all I hate telecom abbreviations.
19:49:51 <fizzie> Our colleagues from one floor down have been dabbling with it more, doing things like bandwidth extension. (It's when you have speech gone through something horrible like narrowband AMR, and then you invent spectral content for the >4 kHz band out of whole cloth so that it sounds better.
19:50:28 <fizzie> (Possibly also the low end.)
19:50:51 <boily> one floor down here is an architect company named «Gross Kaplin Coviensky», abbreviated to «GKC».
19:51:09 <fizzie> It's the kind of thing where you need to do a lot of subjective experiments, because optimizing for "sounds good" is kind of hard to objectively measure.
19:51:12 <boily> in French, the letters are homophonous to «j'ai cassé», which means “I broke”. he he he :D
19:51:28 <fizzie> (They've got oodles and oodles of metrics that correlate more and less with subjective test results.)
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19:55:23 <boily> samantus: badger badger badger badger samantus samantus!
19:55:23 <samantus> boily: Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger samantus samantus
19:56:14 <boily> AnotherTest: I like your bot. the only thing it's missing right now is a good “Error(127)”.
19:57:15 <samantus> > boily is a VERY annoying person/bot (this does not apply to boily/AnotherTest)
19:57:16 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `boily'Not in scope: `is'
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20:07:43 <fizzie> I like how sox's -w argument was changed to -2, and now it's -b 16. They just can't make up their minds.
20:07:58 <fizzie> (From "word" to "two bytes" to "bits: 16".)
20:07:58 <AnotherTest> cool, I managed to connect with my calculator, somehow
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20:27:58 <kmc> i like how intel ruined the word "word"
20:28:45 <Fiora> double double quadword!
20:31:41 <fizzie> Nasm has db, dw, dd, dq, do and dy for 8, 16, 32, 64, 128 and 256 bit data definition pseudo-ops.
20:32:10 <fizzie> (Byte, word, dword, qword, octoword and... well, ymm-register-word.)
20:32:18 <fizzie> (And of course also dt for "tenbyte".)
20:32:50 <Fiora> I've never used do and dy, I guess
20:33:41 <fizzie> They don't accept numeric constants, the manual says.
20:33:53 <fizzie> It isn't terribly forthcoming as to what they *do* accept. Strings, I suppose.
20:34:05 <Fiora> that reminds me of the thing I experimented with a bit back, where like, I think nasm didn't support bigints internally, but yasm did?
20:34:20 <Fiora> so like, you could write arbitrary precision arithmetic in your code and yasm wouldn't break but nasm would overflow
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20:34:57 <Fiora> maybe that's why it can't do 128-bit constants, because they're larger than the internal integer representation?
20:36:00 <fizzie> It says that you can give a floating-point constant to do.
20:36:09 <Fiora> I guess that'd be 64-bit?
20:36:17 <Fiora> ... 128-bit... floats?
20:36:34 <fizzie> There's an IEEE standard for it.
20:36:34 <Fiora> I could understand that with dt I guess
20:36:41 <Fiora> yeah, but like, do any of the CPUs it does support it? @_@
20:37:00 <fizzie> I don't even know if that's the kind of float it does if you do a do.
20:37:27 <fizzie> "do 1.e+4000 ; IEEE 754r quad precision"
20:37:32 <Fiora> "Native support of 128-bit floats is defined in SPARC V8[22] and V9[23] architectures (e.g. there are 16 quad-precision registers %q0, %q4, ...), but no SPARC CPU implements quad-precision operations in hardware."
20:37:56 <fizzie> NASM wouldn't target SPARC anyway.
20:39:01 <fizzie> For that, possibly "native" support for double-double constants would be better.
20:39:16 <fizzie> It's not quite as good as quadruple-precision, of course.
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20:43:13 <metasepia> The Fiora is a river in northern Lazio and southern Tuscany, which springs from the southern flank of the Monte Amiata, near Santa Fiora.
20:44:38 <fizzie> Asks a random duck in a park.
20:44:49 <fizzie> They're quite knowledgeable about the world.
20:46:05 <boily> oftentimes, the duck down know the fungot out of a subject, but then you neveriver know.
20:46:06 <fungot> boily: it amuses me that he asked a windows admin to send him the output of merge is the remaining case that returns 1?
20:46:28 <boily> fungot: well, I'm having a context problem.
20:46:29 <fungot> boily: they don't know. we can't answer that for him. i was supposed to be snowing anymore, anyway.
20:47:19 <boily> fungot: not for a few months yet, but don't worry, we'll get snowed in as usual. 'tis Montréal after all...
20:47:20 <fungot> boily: i wait, maybe it will go away) it's 28 degrees. my motherboard says it will always work.
20:47:57 -!- Koen_ has joined.
20:48:13 <metasepia> CYUL 202000Z 22013G19KT 15SM FEW045 SCT090 SCT180 BKN240 28/18 A3001 RMK CU1AC2AC1CI2 AC TR SLP161 DENSITY ALT 1500FT
20:48:19 <boily> 28 degrees indeed.
20:49:12 <zzo38> I have a different Z-machine which is closer to Infocom's original design, and isn't always compatible with the modern one. A suggestion, which I think is a good idea, is to change the filename extension. Do you have any better ideas what to change it to?
20:50:21 <metasepia> EFHK 202020Z 24002KT CAVOK 15/13 Q1019 NOSIG
20:50:49 <fizzie> fungot: You're not in Canada.
20:50:49 <fungot> fizzie: just do something like ( defmacro fnord ( arglist &body body) fnord ( pendown ( fnord fnord
20:51:16 <Phantom_Hoover> it annoys me that there are like no decent open-world games for linux
20:51:34 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: Write some if you like to do so.
20:51:44 <zzo38> Or maybe use some that are written on some VM.
20:52:09 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Ultima VII with exult?-)
20:54:29 <Fiora> is Don't Starve an open world game?
20:54:33 <Fiora> that's on Linux, I think
20:55:04 <zzo38> What kind of open world game do you want?
20:55:05 <Fiora> oh, X3 is on Linux too, huh
20:55:10 <Fiora> okay that defintely has to count
20:55:20 <boily> Fiora: what do you know that your bot ain't in Canada? everything points to it being somewhat near here.
20:55:46 <fizzie> Fiora: Don't Starve is in [Category:Open world video games] in Wikipedia, so I guess it must be.
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20:56:15 <Phantom_Hoover> (i guess my main problem here is i want to play tes, and nobody makes tes except bethesda)
20:56:25 <Fiora> I don't think it was grindy at all?
20:57:05 <Fiora> I mean like there's a lot of other things to maybe dislike about it if they're not your thing, but like. not grindy, I guess?
20:57:06 <zzo38> What kind of things did you want in open world game though, specifically?
20:57:15 <Phantom_Hoover> well essentially it sounds like elite, and elite and tes aren't quite the same genre imo
20:58:49 <Fiora> well, yeah, I mean, they're really different? but they're both open world ^^;
21:04:32 <fizzie> I've been thinking of buying that Skyrim thing when the discount gets to >= 50%. (Maybe next Steam Christmas sale.)
21:07:47 -!- Emilie has joined.
21:08:09 <Roujo> Well, to be honest...
21:08:19 <Roujo> #esoteric: This is Emilie
21:08:47 <Emilie> Nice to meet you all! (^_^)
21:09:03 <Roujo> Aaaaand you guessed it: Bus time
21:09:26 <Koen_> brace yourself, a `welcome is coming
21:09:36 <HackEgo> Emilie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:11:55 <Koen_> boily: you're the one who asked me the question, right?
21:12:12 <Koen_> because I just read the jsvine survey and your question is in it
21:12:13 -!- Roujo|Android has joined.
21:12:18 <Koen_> I found that particularly suspicious
21:15:08 <Koen_> yes I do remember boily asking Fiora her body weight
21:17:53 <Fiora> I'm not involved in boily's weird plan
21:18:02 <Fiora> except I guess in that I'm one of the dozens of people he asked?
21:19:14 <Koen_> except the crazy umlauts maybe
21:19:40 <Koen_> so why is the question in jsvine's survey?
21:19:54 <Fiora> stalking? I don't know
21:21:15 -!- Roujo|Android has quit (Quit: Bye).
21:21:36 -!- Roujo_ has joined.
21:23:05 <boily> every time I have a meeting and/or a drawing session on a whiteboard, people start spewing conspiracies and interesting stuff.
21:23:37 <Roujo_> You should get into more meetings, then
21:23:50 <Roujo_> More fun for the rest of us
21:23:56 <boily> summary: I don't have any sisters, not even Emilies, I indeed am the one who asks the The Question, Fiora is part of the plan, the umlauts are not crazy, and when does the II come out?
21:24:18 <Koen_> that's not a summary that's more questions
21:24:25 <boily> Roujo_: pfshaw. humbug. nonsense. and you are evil for having brought forth my brother in this Chann̈el.
21:24:32 <boily> Koen_: the Infamous Interview.
21:24:43 <boily> Koen_: well, I got distracted halfway.
21:24:56 <Koen_> you can't put a tréma on a consonant :(
21:25:21 <Roujo_> boily: He had to sëe the wonder of esolanğ
21:25:25 <boily> Fiora: I already have your Relevant Information, so there's no need to Question you again.
21:25:36 <Fiora> this sounds weirder every time you mention it ;_;
21:25:54 <boily> it's not weird, it's even in alphabetical order and nicely formatted!
21:26:15 <Roujo_> Neat and weird aren't mutually exclusive
21:27:09 <boily> for the next 5 minutes: http://pastebin.ca/2434934
21:27:34 <boily> Fiora: you see, nothing weird going on!
21:27:42 <boily> (except FreeFull. he is weird.)
21:27:52 <Koen_> some are in lbs and some in kg
21:28:10 <boily> some are in megaluns. that's not even wrong.
21:28:40 <Fiora> that's um. a strange list
21:29:02 <Koen_> everyone's got your relevant information now Fiora
21:29:27 * boily gives a penguin plushie to Fiora
21:29:59 <HackEgo> The large-eyed mouse lemur is a nocturnal tree-dweller.
21:31:35 <Koen_> for some reason "tree-dweller" evokes some kind of mole digging inside a tree
21:31:39 <Roujo_> %echo @tell boily Where's *my* relevant info? =/
21:31:39 <Emilie> @tell boily Where's *my* relevant info? =/
21:32:03 <Koen_> Emilie's a computer program?
21:32:05 <fizzie> boily: I had an occasion to step on a weightometer the other day, and even though I've forgotten what the exact result was, you could revise my number to 75 in the same units and it'd be closer by some amount.
21:32:46 <Koen_> I had an occasion too but I carefully avoided it from happening
21:32:51 <Roujo_> Koen_: Yeah, she's my bot. That I tend to anthropomorphize
21:33:06 <Koen_> as in Turing-testify?
21:33:35 <boily> `echo "That information is stored in an unnamed metal cabinet in one of the top floors of an obscure administrative building with a number that you probably never heard of." > wisdom/"Roujo's relevant info"
21:33:37 <HackEgo> "That information is stored in an unnamed metal cabinet in one of the top floors of an obscure administrative building with a number that you probably never heard of." > wisdom/"Roujo's relevant info"
21:33:41 <Roujo_> I just talk about her as if she was an actual person
21:33:43 <boily> `run echo "That information is stored in an unnamed metal cabinet in one of the top floors of an obscure administrative building with a number that you probably never heard of." > wisdom/"Roujo's relevant info"
21:34:01 <Roujo_> In hope that she'll take the hint and be one eventually
21:34:03 <boily> ~duck weightometer
21:34:35 <fizzie> `? Roujo's relevant info
21:34:36 <HackEgo> Roujo's relevant info? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:34:44 <fizzie> boily: Lowercasing of search terms strikes again ^
21:34:46 <Roujo_> Yeah, %help is next on the todo list
21:34:53 <boily> fizzie: noooooooooo!
21:35:14 <boily> `? roujo's relevant info
21:35:15 <HackEgo> roujo's relevant info? ¯\(°_o)/¯
21:35:40 * boily thwarps HackEgo with a flamboyant hamburger and a side of fries.
21:36:08 <HackEgo> 546) <Phantom_Hoover> It's like Pygmalion and Galatea but more weeaboo. <Phantom_Hoover> Also lesbian.
21:36:24 <metasepia> The Perry Bible Fellowship is a newspaper comic strip and webcomic by Nicholas Gurewitch.
21:37:24 <metasepia> diaeresis definition: a mark placed over a vowel to indicate that the vowel is pronounced in a separate syllable (as in '''nave''' or '''Bront''') compare umlaut.
21:40:11 <boily> FreeFull: I'd say around 1.5 sigmas over the global average.
21:40:25 <Koen_> you don't necessarily need a tréma to get a diaeresis
21:40:54 <boily> well. you know. sometimes, there are terms that are dramaticker, but untruthinessial.
21:41:07 <FreeFull> Why doesn't metasepia do UTF-8?
21:43:15 <Roujo_> Because tréma is best éma
21:43:27 <FreeFull> boily: But that diaeresis definition wasn't UTF-8
21:44:00 <Emilie> Roujo_: Results of 5d6+7: 19
21:44:01 <Emilie> Roujo_: Rolls: 4, 3, 1, 2, 2
21:44:34 * Emilie slaps boily around with a large trout.
21:44:37 <zzo38> UTF-8 is a character encoding for numbers up to 36-bits, and which is compatible with principle of extended ASCII. The character set normally used with UTF-8 is Unicode, which does not use all 36-bits, though.
21:45:04 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]).
21:45:06 * trout slaps Emilie around with a boiled boily
21:45:28 <trout> zzo38: I didn't know UTF-8 could be used with non-unicode, though it makes sense
21:45:48 <trout> Phantom_Hoover: we have talked before
21:45:53 <fizzie> zzo38: If you go by the definition of "UTF-8" in the latest RFC or the Unicode 6.0 standard, it does not go up to more than 0x10ffff.
21:46:04 <Roujo_> I am pretty damned confused as well
21:46:31 <zzo38> fizzie: UTF-8 does; Unicode does not go higher than 0x10FFFF though (since "UTF-8" normally means it is encoding Unicode, it won't go higher than 0x10FFFF either).
21:46:44 <trout> Phantom_Hoover: for a few years
21:47:03 <trout> I idle a lot here but don't have a chance to contribute much :(
21:47:03 <fizzie> zzo38: No, UTF-8 does not, according to the current standard definitions of it.
21:48:19 <zzo38> fizzie: Well, by those definition it is that by "UTF-8" they mean "UTF-8/Unicode", which is the normal meaning anyways; I am talking about "UTF-8" in general (which doesn't really have a better name)
21:49:25 <pikhq> So, the UTF-8 integer coding scheme, not the character encoding. :)
21:49:39 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I suppose so.
21:49:41 <fizzie> Possibly a name should be invented, then.
21:50:10 <boily> trout: if you want to contribute, just go with the flow.
21:50:11 <pikhq> It's a fairly decent integer code scheme.
21:50:22 <trout> boily: its more about amount of time
21:51:11 <boily> Roujo_: with buffering!
21:51:50 <Roujo_> boily: Mucho buffering
21:52:48 -!- nucular has joined.
21:53:27 <olsner> kmc: hey, I wrote some Rust code today ... but I don't think I quite understand how pointers work
21:53:40 <HackEgo> nucular: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:56:55 -!- augur has joined.
21:57:48 <kmc> olsner: oh, cool! what does your rust code do?
21:57:58 <kmc> and what would you like to know about pointers?
21:59:40 <olsner> it "simulates" a piece of the virtual memory system (like, the data structures that describe mappings and stuff) of my kernel
22:07:17 <olsner> I'm not quite sure what I'd like to know about pointers, I just generally seem to be getting the wrong kind, amount or combination of pointedness and mutability a lot
22:07:40 <FireFly> Hey, are you guys aware of a Brainfuck implementation in Postscript? I can't seem to find any via google
22:08:16 <kmc> one thing to keep in mind is that ~-boxes inherit mutability from their owner
22:08:43 <kmc> basically there are "ownership trees" where the root is either a local variable or an @ / @mut box
22:08:57 <kmc> and so there is let, let mut, @, @mut, but no such thing as ~ vs ~mut
22:10:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
22:11:30 <doesthiswork> what happens when we modify peano's axioms so that instead of each natural number having one successor, it has two?
22:12:30 <Bike> which are also natural numbers?
22:13:56 <Bike> so you mean we have 0 \isin N, S(x) \isin N iff x \isin N, T(x) \isin N \iff x \isin N, S(x) != T(x), S(x) = S(y) iff x = y, T(x) = T(y) iff x = y?
22:13:56 <doesthiswork> well I can't use the same name for them as normal natural numbers because it will get confusing
22:14:31 <fizzie> FireFly: https://bitbucket.org/MrDubya/bfps
22:16:57 <fizzie> FireFly: There's another one that I can't seem to be able to extract a link to, which is really weird.
22:17:20 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: *.net *.[DATA EXPUNGED]).
22:17:31 <elliott> doesthiswork: how do you define addition?
22:17:31 <kmc> well each 'number' in the new system is like a binary number made of S and T
22:17:36 <elliott> you could interpret T as predecessor, I think.
22:17:47 <elliott> since those axioms don't contradict S(T(x)) = T(S(x)) = x, I think?
22:18:17 <Bike> well, i said S(anything) isn't T(anything) but if you lost that you could recover integers.
22:18:18 <fizzie> FireFly: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130820-bf.ps -- it runs 99bob.
22:18:22 <doesthiswork> elliott: you concatonate them, so A becomes the starting point of B (it's not commutative)
22:18:38 <elliott> Bike: T(x) isn't S(x) though
22:18:46 <elliott> so it's okay for S(T(x)) = T(S(x))
22:18:47 <fizzie> FireFly: (Both located by the high-tech process of Googling for ["bf.ps" brainfuck].)
22:18:49 <Bike> oh i guess i phrased it badly
22:19:04 <Bike> i meant S(x) != T(y)
22:19:12 <Bike> implicit foralls ftw
22:19:52 <Bike> if you do that you just get pairs without any particular equivalence predicate i guess.
22:20:19 <Bike> then you could define one predicate and get integers, and a different one and get positive rationals, bla bla.
22:20:32 <FireFly> fizzie: Fair. I tried '"postscript" brainfuck' and similar queries, which didn't work as well
22:20:43 <Bike> well, no. i guess S . T and T . S aren't the same right
22:20:54 <Bike> so... more like what kmc said.
22:21:18 <Bike> yeah imma call that good.
22:21:21 <elliott> if you make S and T totally disjoint then you're just asking about data Peayes = Z | S Peayes | T Peayes
22:21:31 * elliott expert at reduction to solved problems
22:21:32 <Bike> yeah that's what i meant
22:21:36 <Bike> which is binary
22:21:46 <Bike> gotta give me a minute to go through the thinking!!!
22:21:46 <elliott> describing types as axioms is weird.
22:22:01 <Bike> describing axioms as types is weird. describing pies as cakes is weird
22:22:16 <boily> elliott: could you reduce tonight's bike route? I have to go to a new place.
22:24:22 <elliott> data Peamaybe : Type where { Z : Peamaybe; S : Peamaybe -> Peamaybe; T : Peamaybe -> Peamaybe; S_T : forall x, S (T x) = x; T_S : forall x, T (S x) = x } -- hooray for HITs?
22:25:00 <boily> Bike: I'm going to 951 Rachel Est from 7275 St-Urbain. I prefer cycling ways, but would like to avoid potholes as my back hurts. the moon is full, and you can't leave the wolf with the cabbage, as the relative humidity is still quite high.
22:25:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:25:02 <Bike> high intense types
22:25:16 <Bike> boily: have you run this through coq
22:25:48 <boily> no, I need my brain free of type systems as I'm working on projects that require Python.
22:30:29 -!- Roujo_ has quit (Quit: Bye).
22:31:09 <doesthiswork> so I"m defining addition as A + 0 = A, A + S(B) = S( A + B), A + T(B) = T( A + B)
22:31:13 -!- mnoqy has joined.
22:32:40 <Bike> then S(A) + T(B) = S(A + T(B)) = S(T(A + B))and = T(B + S(A)) = T(S(A + B))
22:32:58 <Bike> sucks to be you!!
22:34:56 <Bike> well, assuming addition is commutative.
22:35:10 <boily> does T stand for tuccession?
22:35:14 <Bike> which is a nice thing for addition to be, imo
22:35:22 <Bike> elliott already did that joke man
22:36:02 <Bike> oh i thought you meant S and T didn't commute
22:36:04 <Gracenotes> well, I'm not one to hold grudges. *slinkers away*
22:36:06 <Bike> Gracenotes: "Peamaybe"
22:36:28 <elliott> 23:21:21 <elliott> if you make S and T totally disjoint then you're just asking about data Peayes = Z | S Peayes | T Peayes
22:36:29 <Gracenotes> yeah, I lept off of that. Hm, you did do peayes?
22:36:29 <Koen_> doesthiswork: are you sure that's enough for a definition?
22:36:57 <Gracenotes> Alas. I did have the succ joke, at least.
22:37:08 <HackEgo> 831) <olsner> we have PR? <oerjan> the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] <oerjan> [...] "avoid success at all costs" \ 1043) <ais523> elliott: it's not so much that I've failed, just that I have not yet succeeded
22:37:27 -!- `0x00 has joined.
22:37:41 * `0x00 licks ion up and down the middlepart.
22:37:45 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
22:37:54 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*null@unaffiliated/0x00/x-2550036.
22:37:54 -!- elliott has kicked `0x00 ban evasion and creepiness, go away.
22:38:06 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b $a:`0x00.
22:38:07 <Bike> i think that went well
22:38:17 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b `0x00*!*@*.
22:38:19 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
22:38:51 <elliott> pretty sad if they got a cloak literally just to do that
22:39:14 <boily> lesson of the day: don't be a slimy retard.
22:39:36 <kmc> https://github.com/mozilla/rust/blob/master/src/libstd/rt/util.rs#L72-L130 lolwut
22:39:40 <Bike> don't use "retard" as an insult plz
22:39:50 <Bike> even for people that are slimy
22:39:56 <kmc> I agree with Bike
22:40:56 <Bike> oh, shit, i didn't recognize where it was from :(
22:41:23 <Gracenotes> I dunno, it might also be a stretch to say that it's fair use.
22:41:30 <Gracenotes> for the not-yet-expired longer passages.
22:41:32 <Bike> call of cthulu is pd by now isn't it
22:41:44 <Bike> or... are some of those from other sources. i didn't check.
22:41:46 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:42:14 <Bike> finally, a workable criterion for the public domain
22:42:33 <elliott> oerjan joins right after I ban a ban-evader...... suspicious......
22:42:40 <Gracenotes> it's also includes an 8-word phrase from an English translation of a Japanese video game.
22:42:48 <Bike> fuck it, anyway, lovecraft pretty much ignored copyright anyway
22:43:18 * oerjan cackles conspiratorially
22:43:22 <Koen_> doesthiswork: and are you sure you couldn't get rid of the third condition?
22:43:24 <Bike> "This work is in the public domain in the United States because it was legally published within the United States (or the United Nations Headquarters in New York subject to Section 7 of the United States Headquarters Agreement) before 1964, and copyright was not renewed." ah, there we go
22:43:27 <Koen_> as in are you sure it isn't redundant
22:43:30 <lambdabot> boily said 7h 24m 22s ago: according to wiki's chart of diaphonemes to regional dialects, /poːlət/.
22:43:56 <Bike> imo we should have kept copyright renewal :\\
22:44:05 <Koen_> the second condition should be enough to reduce A+B to S(S(S(S(S(...A+0))))))
22:44:19 <doesthiswork> Koen_: there is one clause for T() and one for S()
22:44:42 <Koen_> I was assuming S(T(x)) = T(S(x)) = x
22:44:50 <Gracenotes> (don't worry, it is endearing terminology)
22:44:57 -!- Ana_V has joined.
22:44:59 <Koen_> (for all x except maybe 0)
22:45:09 -!- Ana_V has left.
22:45:16 -!- beloved has joined.
22:45:27 <HackEgo> beloved: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:45:33 -!- beloved has changed nick to nan[0].
22:45:46 <boily> can I unrelcome somebody?
22:45:51 <doesthiswork> Koen_: If you assume that, it collapses into boringness
22:45:53 <elliott> same username and realname
22:46:31 <Koen_> also, are you sure you got A+B=B+A ?
22:46:43 <doesthiswork> when you concatenate paths through a tree they don't commute
22:47:04 <Koen_> I haven't the slightest idea what you mean
22:47:32 <oerjan> boily: h+-oily as she is _properly_ pronounced (see logs hth)
22:47:38 <elliott> nan[0]: do you have a good argument for not being `0x00 ban evading again?
22:47:51 <mnoqy> good argument, imo
22:48:04 <elliott> nan[0]: preferably one better than "huh?" :/
22:48:05 <doesthiswork> T() is the left child S() is the right child, so it makes a binary tree
22:48:11 <boily> oerjan: indeed. it's good when I'm well pronounced.
22:48:23 <Koen_> couldn't you name them L and R then
22:48:26 * nan[0] licks ion down the neck. down the back.
22:48:31 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
22:48:34 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*null@*.violates.us.
22:48:34 -!- elliott has kicked nan[0] yep.
22:48:49 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b nan[0]*!*@*.
22:48:53 <boily> elliott: hey, at least let us some time to grab popcorn :p
22:48:54 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
22:48:57 <Koen_> so what's a number again?
22:49:10 <Bike> "so what's a number again?": the maths experience
22:49:41 <boily> Koen_: you have to become one with nothing to understand natural reality.
22:50:00 <doesthiswork> Koen_: don't ask me I didn't do it -- principa discordia
22:50:06 <Koen_> can you please start making sentences I can read boily
22:51:38 <Koen_> doesthiswork: I read a few lines up S(T(x)) = x
22:51:52 <boily> doesthiswork: you outconfused me there.
22:52:01 <Koen_> how is that consistent with left son and right son?
22:53:23 <doesthiswork> Koen_ that would make modular arithmetic, who wrote it?
22:53:46 <doesthiswork> boily: who's on first; the pitcher is named tomorrow
22:54:02 <Koen_> elliott: data Peamaybe : Type where { Z : Peamaybe; S : Peamaybe -> Peamaybe; T : Peamaybe -> Peamaybe; S_T : forall x, S (T x) = x; T_S : forall x, T (S x) = x } -- hooray for HITs?
22:54:32 <elliott> there's about ten different things with S and T people are talking about at this point
22:54:44 <boily> doesthiswork: I suspected a&c, but I missed the pitcher's part.
22:55:54 <Bike> i'm a fucking visionary elliott
22:56:38 <doesthiswork> Koen_: I was messing around to see if I could get anything interesting. The answer is probably not
22:57:15 <Koen_> no this thing about binary trees sounds fun
22:58:15 <tswett> "Number" doesn't have a mathematical definition.
22:58:36 <doesthiswork> I thought peano numbers WHERE one such definition
22:58:45 <Koen_> how is A*T(B) equal to A*B + A
22:58:46 <tswett> But things are generally considered numbers when they are similar in some way to the natural numbers or something.
22:59:06 <tswett> doesthiswork: they're a definition of "natural number", but I don't think "number" is usually considered a synonym of "natural number".
22:59:27 <Koen_> I think a number is like "the member of the corps we're both talking about"
22:59:35 <Koen_> give me 5 sec to translate corps to english
23:00:06 <doesthiswork> Koen_: I was seeing what happens I don't like calling that operation multiplication
23:00:11 <metasepia> corps definition: an organized subdivision of the military establishment.
23:00:20 <Koen_> wikipedia gives me "division ring"
23:00:31 <Koen_> okay maybe not what I meant
23:00:44 <Koen_> I should take a math class someday
23:01:05 <Bike> math is for nerds imo
23:01:16 <boily> math is for engineers imbo.
23:01:26 <doesthiswork> I don't like the definition I gave because it multiplies the structure of one number by the magnitude of another.
23:01:42 <oerjan> Koen_: the natural numbers are not a division ring (or field, which is what i thought corps/german Körper) meant
23:01:56 <Bike> in my boilypinion?
23:02:02 <Koen_> doesthiswork: that's the multiplication by a scalar
23:02:25 <Koen_> doesthiswork: now you need cross product or something
23:02:26 <oerjan> admittedly you can embed them in one. heck even the ordinals embed into the surreals.
23:02:40 <doesthiswork> yes, and you see how B is just being used as a scalar
23:02:47 <boily> Bike: it was “in my better opinion”, but I like the pretentiousness of a boilypinion :D
23:03:11 <Koen_> oerjan: honestly besides groups and vector spaces I can't tell which are which any longer
23:03:22 <Koen_> between rings fields ideals algebras etc
23:04:03 <boily> oerjan: this looks like an implement to shoot laser rays at obnoxious people.
23:04:06 <oerjan> no, it means "move the ) to the right spot"
23:04:12 <Koen_> and I probably won't for a long time because this fucking school doesn't have ANYTHING AT ALL else than computers
23:04:23 <Bike> what kinda sadass school is that
23:04:51 <Koen_> no languages, no maths, no physics, no nothing
23:06:44 <Koen_> doesthiswork: what about replacing every leaf of B with copies of A
23:07:04 <oerjan> Koen_: not even monoids? i hear they're easy
23:07:14 <Koen_> I've never known what a monoid was
23:07:43 <Koen_> except that one time when I was tired of not knowing and I looked up the definition on wikipedia and that was just one more definition and without further study it was just a boring definition so I forgot it
23:07:46 <Bike> just a thing with "addition" that's associative, basically. and addition has an identity. and probably another thing i'm forgetting.
23:08:17 <Koen_> well that's one thing too much
23:08:18 <Bike> yeah basically
23:08:25 <Bike> i don't even know why i remember it
23:08:26 <Koen_> they're just sets with operations
23:08:28 <oerjan> Koen_: monoids are the thing which concatenated words / lists are the free object of hth
23:08:28 <Bike> possibly shachaf??
23:08:34 <Koen_> why don't we call them sets with operations
23:08:45 <Bike> because they're old.
23:09:17 <boily> “lists are the free objects of hth.” that is most disturbing.
23:09:23 <Bike> same reason you call 4 "four" but all 819198 gets is "eight hundred thousand nineteen, one hundred ninety eight". you just use the former more.
23:09:40 <Bike> er i fucked that up
23:10:07 <Koen_> thousand nineteen that's an awful lot of nineteens
23:10:22 <Bike> eight hundred nineteen thousand, JERK
23:10:53 <oerjan> Koen_: because "sets with operations" is a vague thing of which monoids are a _very_ specific example hth
23:10:54 <boily> Bike is sharing his happy mood with all of us. thanks Bike.
23:11:27 <Koen_> oerjan: sets with _very_ specific operations twnh
23:12:03 <boily> time to go grab edible matter. my stomach is attempting to morph itself into a singularity.
23:12:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
23:12:13 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:13:32 <Koen_> oerjan: Historically, division rings were sometimes referred to as fields, while fields were called commutative fields.
23:14:49 <oerjan> yes. i may even vaguely recall that french ended up keeping the opposite convention of english?
23:16:20 <oerjan> also i've decided to ban french in the channel, all obscure terms must be acronyms so they're easy to comprehend hth
23:17:45 <oerjan> as i've recently discovered, the worst thing about french is that it's so similar to english that when you try to google the definition of a french word it's hard to phrase in such a way that you don't get just french hits with no english explanation.
23:19:29 <oerjan> i mean, _normally_ all i do when i want to get a comprehensible definition of something is to add "definition" to the search terms. but does that work for french? noooo...
23:29:31 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
23:29:32 <Bike> maybe you should try speaking a language not made up by normans.
23:32:19 * oerjan slips off Bike's chain
23:33:10 <oerjan> shachaf: don't worry, it's just the bike equivalent of tying together his shoelaces hth
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23:33:56 <shachaf> 16:08 <Bike> possibly shachaf??
23:34:10 <shachaf> i guess he's just talking about monoids
23:34:28 <shachaf> Bike: monoids aren't cool btw
23:35:02 <shachaf> (comonoid is a real thing btw but it's boring in Set)
23:35:50 <oerjan> what about in Set^{op}
23:36:40 <shachaf> what about in #esoteric^{op}
23:37:22 <kmc> shachaf: how is your second day as a noogler
23:38:13 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?").
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23:42:48 <doesthiswork> perhaps we can automate all these "co-" jokes since they are based on a trivial lexical feature
23:43:20 <kmc> what about the cock jokes
23:43:30 <kmc> are you trying to put me out of a job here
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23:47:22 <doesthiswork> but someone even published a paper about a program to automatically make "that's what she said" jokes, so why should we make co jokes manually when we can make them much more efficiently by computer
23:48:05 <oerjan> mputer? i hardly know her!
23:48:47 <scoofy> i'd be interested in an actual humor generating algorithm
23:49:02 <scoofy> computers are notoriously bad at humor
23:49:09 <oerjan> humor? i *hit by falling anvil*
23:49:50 <scoofy> but it involves some kind of intelligence
23:50:17 <doesthiswork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_humor
23:51:49 <scoofy> seems like a rather young field
23:52:42 <scoofy> would be interesting to see it in formal mathematical models
23:53:47 <HackEgo> scoofy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:59:43 <scoofy> elliott, yes, i could say