00:02:02 <oerjan> gah STXTRM's | command fails to work nicely with [] nesting :(
00:03:09 <oerjan> thought i could wrap up an easy TC proof
00:07:28 <oerjan> i still think the Fueue method can be ported, even without |
00:10:53 <kmc> I think people in ##crypto have strong opinions about this stuff
00:12:49 <elliott> kmc: yeah but that sounds scary :P
00:13:25 <elliott> *join* "how awful is keepass" "IT'S SHIT AND SO ARE YOU"
00:13:31 <elliott> ^ my impression of any channel I've never been in
00:14:26 <Bike> accurate impression
00:15:35 <elliott> also feels kind of like joining #haskell to ask if xmonad is any good
00:15:54 <Bike> do people do that
00:15:59 <Bike> well. probably.
00:16:29 <kmc> elliott: you could look through the logs I guess
00:17:49 <elliott> should just become a god capable of memorising twenty 32-character passwords like every other nerd on the planet apparently is
00:18:41 <Bike> just forget them all constantly and then get back on based on your taking the time to call an underpaid intern at the organization.
00:18:50 <Bike> works every time.
00:19:14 <elliott> hello, yes, is this esolangs.org support, I appear to have forgotten my wiki admin password
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02:39:01 <Sgeo> I wish Rebol was as popular as Tcl
02:39:31 <Sgeo> People have done pretty amazing things with Tcl, but I think Rebol is a better language
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04:51:01 <Sgeo> pikhq: have you looked into Rebol?
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10:55:44 <Jafet> elliott: function password { echo -n "> " && read -rs pw && echo -n "$pw" | sha1sum | head -c 40 && echo }
10:57:26 <elliott> this seems less than optimal
10:57:40 <Jafet> It's amazingly portable
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12:05:08 <oerjan> i thought osama was dead
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12:35:43 <boily> good deconstruction morning!
12:36:45 <oerjan> what was your particular purpose in making that statement, and what does it say about your mother?
12:44:24 <boily> I was enquiring about your collective comments on the Yesterday PDF, and I'm going to see her next weekend.
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12:46:01 <boily> oerjan: oh, and why the eliza this morning?
12:47:24 <oerjan> i'm just being deconstructive
13:33:55 <boily> say, do you interpret dreams?
13:36:17 <boily> I've had one the other night that left me very confused. I was spinning an explosive corncob on a submerged theater scene, and I have no clue in fungot about what it means.
13:36:17 <fungot> boily: ros. with a good will; i can tell you, and after go fnord hence, fnord and i know not
13:36:58 <oerjan> fungot is being mysterious about it as usual
13:36:59 <fungot> oerjan: all. dan diddle dan. o hapless fortune! let me clip ye in armes as sound, as things that are knowne alike, which master catesby here forth will pay ye.
13:37:10 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss* wp youtube
13:38:25 <boily> all dan diddle dan diddle ooooooh!
13:38:32 <fungot> Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations)
13:43:47 <boily> Roujo: apparently Montréalers like to chat: http://www.reddit.com/r/montreal/comments/1lbt8n/how_to_chat_with_other_redditors_from_montreal/
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14:35:23 -!- boily has set topic: Hexham/Helsinki/Lachine axis | 22nd IOCCC: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q | comment on the wisdom PDF! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric hth.
14:36:04 <boily> I added a title page (from a template), and a small foreword.
14:36:28 <HackEgo> olist (915): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly
14:36:29 <boily> I still need to insert the colourful and incomprehensible entries.
14:44:25 <oerjan> you know, i might be starting to dislike tarquin a tiny bit.
14:47:30 <shachaf> boily: tarquin is a kind of sweet sesame pudding
14:48:07 <boily> shachaf: like halva?
14:49:48 <boily> but... what of sesame on sushi?
14:52:27 <Koen_> suchi is much better off without it
14:53:27 <metasepia> salmon definition: a large anadromous salmonid fish ('''Salmo salar''') of the North Atlantic noted as a game and food fish called also '''Atlantic salmon'''.
14:53:39 * boily and metasepia glare at Koen_ “Such a lack of taste... you plebeian”
14:53:49 <metasepia> tuna definition: any of various flat-jointed prickly pears (genus '''Opuntia'''); '''especially'''.
14:53:56 <metasepia> A tuna is a saltwater finfish that belongs to the tribe Thunnini, a sub-grouping of the mackerel family (Scombridae) which together with the tunas, also includes the bonitos, mackerels, and Spanish mackerels.
14:55:33 <Koen_> boily: you know, in japanese restaurants in paris they usually have carpaccio de saumon de provence on their menu
14:56:07 <boily> Koen_: nice! completely unauthentic, but nevertheless nice.
14:56:50 <boily> here we get the usual american fare, meaning all variations on maki, but the sushi joints are nearly all tended by south-east asians or chinese people.
14:58:03 <boily> thus, in AYCE buffets you can get garlic beef tenderloin, thai style udon, fishballs, miso soup, fried shrimps, fish heads (apparently the eyes are good)...
14:58:39 <boily> and we get the obverse: in korean grills you can order sushi plates too :D
14:58:48 <Koen_> yes I'm pretty sure all asiatic restaurants in my hometown belong to the same family
14:59:15 <boily> that's a very profitable model: sale your restaurant to your nephew, evade taxes, buy it back later.
14:59:49 <Koen_> I extrapolated and decided there was only one family in asia
15:00:52 <boily> they're all 李, except when they're nguyễn.
15:05:29 <oerjan> Koen_: yeah the genghises
15:06:08 <Koen_> oh you know them too?
15:11:38 <Bike> do you not have any thai places
15:13:51 <boily> Bike: outside of the rampant Thaï Express and Thaï Zone (poor quality fast-food pseudo Thai chains), there are what... only a handful of real joints?
15:14:08 <boily> Roujo: do you have experience with thai restaurants on the island?
15:14:19 <Bike> chains usually suck anyway though...
15:15:24 <boily> luckily, there's one near our offices that has incredible pad thai. otherwise, you need to go to chinese restaurants downtown.
15:16:07 <boily> hm. looks like Roujo is dead...
15:16:33 <boily> @tell Roujo ARRÊTE DE FAIRE L'IDLE, INFÂME ET ODIEUX PERSONNAGE QUE TU ES! :D
15:17:52 <oerjan> incredible bad thai, check
15:23:37 <boily> oerjan: bad experience with thai food?
15:26:31 <oerjan> not that i can recall. the vietnamese restaurant we had in trondheim some years ago wasn't anything to celebrate, though.
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15:43:34 <boily> @tell oerjan «Itj færra nålles!» ← Is that an hth loophole abuse?
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15:55:22 <boily> a coworker pointed out that `? duoids is absent from the list.
16:04:17 <Koen_> so this queue-based paradigm would do something such that main() { a(); b(); } a() { c(); d(); } b() { e(); f(); } would be executed as main() a() b() c() d() e() f()
16:06:53 <Koen_> say, a program is a sequence of statements
16:07:10 <Koen_> a statement is either a minimal statement (let's call that an axiom), or a function
16:07:24 <Koen_> and a function is itself a sequence of statements
16:08:01 <Koen_> at the beginning of execution, the sequence of statement that constitute the program is in a (FIFO) queue
16:08:33 <Koen_> and execution consists in dequeuing the first element, executing it if it's an atom, or appending its content to the queue if it's a function
16:11:15 <Koen_> you know what I'm gonna try to get a password and write that down on the wiki
16:14:55 <Koen_> "A reminder e-mail has been sent. "
16:15:03 <Koen_> not sure I believe you, computer
16:21:45 <lambdabot> boily said 1h 5m 11s ago: ARRÊTE DE FAIRE L'IDLE, INFÂME ET ODIEUX PERSONNAGE QUE TU ES! :D
16:22:18 <Roujo> boily: Off-island, yeah. Inochi, à Vaudreuil.
16:22:47 <Roujo> On island... no. I know a Japanese place or two, but no Thai.
16:22:55 <Roujo> Well, except Thai Express >_>
16:24:02 <Roujo> @tell boily ARRÊTE DE FAIRE L'IDLE, INFÂME ET ODIEUX PERSONNAGE QUE TU ES! :D
16:30:26 <Koen_> so I look at my emails and I GOT A NEW EMAIL on the right account
16:30:53 <Koen_> turned out it's an agora-discussion digest and not a fresh password for esolangs
16:33:14 <elliott> Koen_: it is a gmail address.
16:33:36 <elliott> hmm, maybe I broke password emails
16:33:50 <Koen_> they worked one week ago
16:34:01 <Koen_> well I remember it didn't work on the first try but I finally got a new password
16:34:11 <elliott> and messed with mail stuff
16:34:20 <elliott> ok, I got an email but it went to spam.
16:35:22 <Koen_> I use thunderbird and it usually gets all the emails, including those that would appear into spam if I used gmail's page
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16:35:35 <elliott> well, I suggest double-checking :p
16:36:13 <Koen_> that's what I'm about to do
16:36:23 <Koen_> but I did received last week's email
16:36:37 <Koen_> and also remembering my gmail password for that account is hard
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16:42:00 <Koen_> and thank you for your help
16:42:31 <Koen_> it's not supposed to do that anyway
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16:52:58 <elliott> Koen_: I can just reset the password if you want.
16:53:07 <Koen_> now that's okay it worked
16:53:17 <Koen_> it was indeed in the spam filter
16:53:31 <Koen_> and now I feel like an idiot for not checking there earlier, but it's the first time it does that!
16:53:52 <Koen_> usually I don't care what's in the spam folder because I don't have such a folder when using thunderbird
16:54:11 <Koen_> buuuut for some reason thunderbird didn't take that message
16:56:54 <elliott> esolang stuff wasn't spam filtered before. I should fix it if I can (but I won't).
17:00:04 <Koen_> You should but you wouldn't, you can but you shan't
17:02:01 <boily> Roujo: j'ai le droit d'idler comme je veux. c'est mon heure de dîner! nah!
17:03:18 <boily> Roujo: the pulled pork sandwich, it was scrumptious ☺
17:03:37 <Roujo> boily: That's... odd. Someone in another channel was just commenting on that.
17:04:12 <boily> Roujo: was he at the «Dépanneur le Pick-up»?
17:04:24 <Roujo> boily: He lives in the US. So meh. =P
17:04:32 <Roujo> Well, I think e does, anyway
17:04:41 <boily> did you ask him the The Question?
17:04:51 <Roujo> I don't ask most people The Questiön
17:04:59 <Roujo> Since it's pretty much esolang related, right?
17:05:14 <Roujo> Who cares about the CoM of randome peopl?
17:05:41 <Roujo> I don't know how that e moved all the way over there
17:06:03 <boily> that's why I nail my lettërs down, so that they don't move.
17:07:12 <Roujo> Oh, by the way - while learning myself a haskell might be for great good, I decided I should work instead =P
17:07:22 <Roujo> So that Project is Paused
17:12:21 <boily> you know you have learned haskell when your first impulse in the morning is to write a monad tutorial before breakfast.
17:13:32 <Roujo> I thus conclude that I have not
17:13:48 <Roujo> I think it's mostly because I don't see any use in it, I guess
17:14:10 <Roujo> So I'd be learning it for fun
17:14:24 <Roujo> But there are already other languages in that queue =P
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18:14:36 <Roujo> `relcome KingOfKarlsruhe
18:14:39 <HackEgo> KingOfKarlsruhe: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:19:56 <boily> I can insert a Linear B goat, but not the unicode character. sometimes LaTeX is really infuriating.
18:21:17 <Roujo> I just got back into LaTeX this morning ^^
18:21:25 <Roujo> Has to make a nice help document
18:21:46 <Roujo> I took the opportunity to make a pun using math symbols - I love math + LaTeX
18:22:35 <Bike> i wonder how often people write linear b in latex
18:23:23 <HackEgo> 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.)
18:23:52 <Roujo> How can I fix this?
18:23:55 <Roujo> Add more fonts? =P
18:24:18 <boily> Roujo: harken to olsner's advice.
18:24:31 <Roujo> Chrome has teleported all of mine >_>
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18:27:42 <HackEgo> t̵ͦiͭme͡ S͖̀l̘̿͟o̯ͥwl̀͠y̮ ̥g̅eṱ̉҉ţi͊͡n̅ğ̨̺ ͫw͖ͭor͡s̯ęͣ
18:28:12 <boily> okay. bear with me for a moment there. HOW CAN I LATEX THAT? AAAAAAAAAAAH!.
18:28:40 <Roujo> That broke myndzi on my end
18:34:20 <nooodl> what are you latexing boily
18:37:31 <elliott> boily: how did you handle `? ngevd?
18:39:11 <boily> nooodl: look at the topic ↑
18:39:31 <boily> elliott: I used the secret hidden file, not the real ngevdism.
18:40:03 <boily> (I think some people suggested an RNG for generating the entry dynamically)
18:40:09 <HackEgo> nooodl is the correct spelling
18:40:14 <HackEgo> nooooooodl is the correct spelling
18:40:31 <nooodl> help i'm laughing so hard at the first page
18:40:32 <boily> nooodl: well, same as the Ngevd Circumventing Workaround.
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18:48:11 <boily> wasn't there an entry with an unicode keyboard? I can't seem to find it...
18:55:35 <HackEgo> Morphisms are just elements of the Hom-set of a pair of objects.
18:55:51 <nooodl> boily: your pdf says "morphism are just elements..."
18:56:19 <HackEgo> bc ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵
18:56:47 <olsner> the pdf seems to be missing something there
18:56:56 <boily> nooodl: ah? lemme check.
18:57:16 <boily> olsner: I went for a compromise for that one. piped through od, a little bit of formatting, and that's it.
18:57:27 <olsner> the missing s on morphism was reported yesterday already (!)
18:57:30 <boily> otherwise, I could have printed out a bunch of squares, but that'd be boring.
18:57:54 <boily> there. the morphisms are plural now.
18:58:02 <boily> and my weechat is completely borked.
18:58:27 <boily> olsner: it shows up as an unknown character in my terminal.
18:59:31 <olsner> U+0BF5 Tamil year sign, apparently
19:00:12 <boily> olsner: I'll tamilify bc, then.
19:00:20 <boily> elliott: working on that. missing font shapes...
19:01:06 <elliott> boily: phantom_+hoover needs code formatting for the HTML, and the qdb rules for the excerpt examples! and quit. for the /quit
19:03:00 <boily> olsner: hm. easier said than done. I have to go through itrans, it seems.
19:04:03 <boily> elliott: I tried to dodge having to do with lstlistings, but seems I have no choice. same thing for the qdb rules (probably just a \texttt{} for those). what about the /quit?
19:04:05 <olsner> perhaps there should be an appendix with notes about just how horrible it is to get the stuff into tex
19:04:31 <boily> olsner: I'll have a complaints chapter at the end. some entries are just plain vile.
19:05:16 <elliott> boily: also, I think the last entry in the pdf is misglyphed.
19:06:47 <olsner> oh, and one of the gashpachos is a *polish* szoup, that should be disflagrated from the hungarian one
19:07:13 <boily> elliott: oh! the enveloppy keyboard! I knew there was one there.
19:07:25 <boily> olsner: yeah, working on the disflagration.
19:08:42 <boily> `learn disflagrate v.t.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized.
19:08:43 <Taneb> My brother just asked for help using GIMP
19:08:53 <Taneb> His exact question was, "where was the tool for the pictures?"
19:09:02 <Roujo> `learn The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time.
19:09:19 <HackEgo> The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time.
19:09:37 <boily> I'll let y'all fix that. my weechat is REALLY borked.
19:10:13 <olsner> you should make use of the fact that hackego has a hg repo that you can track for changes (once you manage to catch up with any revision of it)
19:11:40 <boily> (sorry for the noise. trying to make the bad stuff scroll up...)
19:12:08 <boily> seems that the bc line is really nasty...
19:12:39 <Roujo> `learn LaTeX is \end{document}
19:13:08 <boily> Roujo: テメ〜〜〜〜〜ッ！！！
19:13:18 <olsner> pretty sure `? bc is proper unicode though ... does it break your client just because it's not present in your font?
19:13:38 <Roujo> boily: I don't even
19:14:04 <boily> olsner: bc is correct finally. the brokenness happened earlier.
19:14:05 <olsner> is escaping tex code hard in tex?
19:14:30 <boily> Roujo: translation: «Toé mon espèce de...»
19:14:47 <kmc> olsner: mostly not
19:14:57 <boily> olsner: not really. it was just one another attempt at making my job even more difficult.
19:18:50 <Bike> guess it doesn't real, then.
19:21:01 <Roujo> `learn LaTeX is \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \}
19:23:40 <Roujo> Just an escaped escaped sequence
19:25:03 <olsner> eh, it seems that people think tex quines should write themselves to tex's standard output or to a new tex file on disk, rather than into the typeset result
19:27:37 <Koen_> I never thought "people" had an opinion regarding tex quines
19:28:40 <boily> nooodl: toé is vernacular oral Québécois French for «toi», otherwise known as “you”.
19:28:58 <nooodl> oh, that's what i expected
19:29:06 <metasepia> people definition: '''plural''' human beings making up a group or assembly or linked by a common interest.
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19:29:30 <nooodl> québécois est effrayant
19:30:48 <boily> nooodl: bin wéyons dont. ça se peut tu dire des affaires de même.
19:31:19 <boily> fizzie: at least it's not an “'''especially'''”.
19:32:27 <nooodl> boily: huh, reading québécois french feels exactly like reading french back when i couldn't read french
19:33:54 <Roujo> L'affaire, c'est qu'ça dépend en masse du niveau d'language que'l gars utilise
19:34:51 <boily> watche tes apostrophes, le monde pourraient s'mêler avec des patentes écrites mal amanchées.
19:35:58 <boily> (me d'mande comment que google translate est capable de traduire ça.)
19:36:31 <Koen_> le monde pourraient s'mêler? is that google translate?
19:37:21 <nooodl> this exchange was readable up until "patentes écrites mal amanchées" but maybe those are actual french words who knows
19:37:42 <boily> Koen_: «le monde» is plural this side of the Great Atlantic Puddle.
19:38:02 <boily> nooodl: «patente»: thingamabob. «mal»: bad. «amanchées»: eeeeeh... let me think about that one.
19:38:15 <Koen_> nooodl: I confirm "écrites" and "mal" are actual french words
19:38:48 <boily> Koen_: like in the expression: «le monde sont caves icitte ça a pas d'allure.»
19:39:25 <nooodl> remember when i said québécois est effrayant?
19:39:33 <nooodl> turns out it is... très effrayant
19:39:42 <Roujo> Effrayant en maudit, oui
19:40:14 <Roujo> Koen_: It's not plural, don't worry =P
19:40:18 <boily> «amancher» v.t.: to fit, to join together, usually in a hackish manner (probably involving some duct tape). to say that something is «mal amanché» means that it's shoddy, and threatens to collapse at any given moment.
19:40:37 <Roujo> Not officially, anyway
19:40:48 <Roujo> But yeah, le monde sont cave
19:41:07 <Roujo> Nah, people are stupid
19:41:13 <nooodl> or rather: effrayant de câlice
19:41:23 <boily> olsner: dumb, as like a caveman.
19:41:26 <Roujo> Effrayant en calisse
19:41:41 <boily> nooodl: check your prepositions!
19:41:42 <nooodl> i knew that wouldn't be an actual thing
19:42:19 <boily> nooodl: en to start, de to chain. like an applicative functor, <$> at the beginning, then <*> between every sacre.
19:43:52 <boily> by the way, I lstlisted the Twenty Underscores Phantom Hoover.
19:44:19 <nooodl> can you write "effrayant en câlice de crisse de tabarnak" as "(|effrayant câlice crisse tabarnak|)" using the montréal québécois enhancement?
19:45:42 <boily> I don't see why not.
19:46:21 <boily> the phở refuses to be emboldened.
19:46:56 <nooodl> is the .tex file public?
19:49:33 <boily> I just created a private github repo. could make it public if you want too.
19:53:11 <fizzie> Doesn't private github cost money or something?
19:53:50 <boily> fizzie: yes. I already have a plan for private repos for other projects, so it's not an issue.
19:54:42 <boily> nooodl: I guess your github account is nooodl?
19:55:01 <boily> you are now a collaborator.
19:55:23 <boily> feel free to deconstruct and butcher and flblblblbwobble the whole thing.
19:55:44 <boily> (like a punctured balloon captured on a hi-speed video camera)
19:56:37 <fizzie> I think they should use the term "coconspirator" instead of "collaborator" on GitHub.
19:58:33 <boily> `run echo "A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in catterpillar silk" >wisdom/cocoonspirator
20:00:08 <Koen_> did we broke `learn
20:00:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:00:59 <boily> Koen_: that's the Recommended Best Practice to have an entry that doesn't start with the defined word.
20:01:12 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:02:29 <Koen_> breaking `learn is the Recommended Best Practice?
20:02:36 <lambdabot> boily said 4h 19m 1s ago: «Itj færra nålles!» ← Is that an hth loophole abuse?
20:02:42 <Koen_> and you think I'd buy that
20:02:51 <oerjan> boily: i don't think so
20:03:53 <oerjan> DID SOMEONE BREAK `learn
20:04:12 <kmc> what language is that
20:04:14 <boily> oerjan: no, that's just Koen_ who's being a tad paranoïd after a head-first encounter with Québécois.
20:05:00 <oerjan> Koen_: your french frenchness is too anomalous in this channel. have you considered emigrating to canada, belgium or switzerland?
20:05:12 <Koen_> oerjan: if you suspect the person you're facing is Québécoiste, the Recommended Best Practice is to quietly move backwards until you're no longer facing em
20:05:19 <kmc> bad diaeresis
20:05:33 <oerjan> Koen_: wouldn't it be quicker to just turn around
20:05:41 <Koen_> oerjan: I lived near the border with switzerland for two years
20:06:12 <oerjan> kmc: the thing boily quoted is norwegian dialect.
20:06:14 <Koen_> the people there were all about pronouncing 90 "nonante" instead of our fancy "quatre-vingt dix"
20:06:31 <boily> Koen_: disgusting.
20:06:48 <oerjan> i hear the belgians do the same
20:06:48 <kmc> which dialect?
20:07:26 <oerjan> kmc: southern trøndelag, where trondheim is. (northern would be "fårrå" instead hth.)
20:07:59 <boily> it really is an hth loophole.
20:08:37 <Koen_> oerjan: we classy french people have three irregular fancy numbers; 70 is soixante-dix, 80 is quatre-vingt, 90 is quatre-vingt dix
20:09:03 <Koen_> and from what I understand, belgian have regular unfancy words for two of those numbers, and swiss people for all three
20:09:06 <boily> `pastquote quatre-vingt
20:09:07 <Bike> gotta love those celts
20:09:09 <Koen_> or maybe it's one and three
20:09:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastquote: not found
20:09:20 <boily> `pastequote quatre-vingt
20:09:22 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found
20:09:23 <Roujo> cat pastquote > pastquote
20:09:35 <oerjan> boily: the thing is, no one can explain exactly what "nålles" means so it _might_ be a hth loophole or not.
20:09:37 <Koen_> anyway I suggest not insulting a swiss (or belgian) by suggesting he might have all three when he's got only one or two
20:09:40 * boily bludgeons HackEgo with a hammer shark
20:09:54 <boily> oerjan: subtle. I like your technique.
20:10:44 <oerjan> Koen_: i do know how to count in (french) french
20:11:10 <Koen_> but do you know how to count in swiss and how to count in belgian?
20:11:19 <Koen_> can you tell swiss appart of belgian?
20:11:31 <Koen_> I mean despite the german accent
20:12:06 -!- augur has joined.
20:12:23 <oerjan> boily: it's generally interpreted something like "take care" or "godspeed" though.
20:14:15 <oerjan> well i've heard about the septante, huitante and nonante or thereabouts thing but i didn't know there were subtleties in how many were used
20:15:21 <oerjan> boily: you may be looking for pastequotes
20:16:05 <oerjan> the middle might be octante i'm not sure
20:17:04 <Koen_> I thought that was octante
20:17:13 <Koen_> or maybe that's yet another difference between belgian and swiss
20:17:36 <Koen_> oh right you said that already
20:17:38 <boily> octante fell into disuse, and is now the bastardized huitante.
20:17:55 <Roujo> I just use huit-dix
20:18:10 <Koen_> is that japanese french?
20:18:43 <boily> Roujo: 本当に日本人じゃないか？
20:19:31 <oerjan> octo and octaginta are the original latin for 8 and 80, so it's just a matter of when/where you apply weird sound changes i think
20:19:47 <boily> Roujo: sûr que t'es pas un japonais?
20:20:04 <Roujo> boily: Pretty sure, yeah
20:20:19 <coppro> boily: t'est Québecois, oui?
20:20:26 <boily> the current DCSS challenge on /r/roguelikes is ascending with an OpTm.
20:20:39 <boily> coppro: mon père est un Tremblay. pas mal certain que oui :D
20:21:11 <coppro> boily: haha. ##CanadaPolitics
20:21:57 <boily> coppro: fuggedaboutit. no way I'm immiscing myself into Canadian Politics.
20:22:06 <boily> waaaaay too dangerous.
20:22:14 <boily> coppro: octopode transmuter.
20:23:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
20:23:29 <metasepia> CYUL 292000Z 02007KT 15SM FEW025 24/18 A3003 RMK CU2 SLP168 DENSITY ALT 1000FT
20:23:53 <nooodl> belgians say quatre-vingt
20:24:11 <Roujo> Most sane people do
20:24:15 <boily> much better than yesterday, and the looming CU2 may summon some water to water my plants.
20:24:43 <nooodl> ~apparently~ they say septante and nonante in wallonia but here in flanders we get explicitly taught not to use them.
20:24:43 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
20:24:55 <nooodl> so i'm used to quatre-vingt-dix etc.
20:25:42 <Koen_> nooodl: isn't that a rebel politics "okay, learning french is vital because half our country speaks french, but there's no way we're gonna learn THEIR french"
20:25:58 <coppro> noodl: what do they use for eighty?
20:26:34 <boily> we should all say «eightyante». it's modern, trendy, and horrendous.
20:26:49 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:27:06 <Roujo> I might have broken the bot
20:27:16 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:27:20 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:27:32 <boily> Roujo: wow. that doesn't happen often.
20:28:01 <Roujo> Kind of makes your LaTeX job easier
20:28:07 <nooodl> did you overwrite /bin/cat
20:28:24 <Roujo> But yeah, I got the path wrong or something
20:28:32 <boily> Roujo: easier, but much longer. now I need to define everything!
20:28:53 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:29:13 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:29:25 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:29:38 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:29:45 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:29:59 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:30:07 <nooodl> cats ARE cool but should be illegal
20:30:12 <Roujo> I'll go revert that in private, then
20:30:29 <HackEgo> Cats are cool but should be illegal
20:31:02 <nooodl> wow my latex doesn't support japanese fonts ;_;
20:31:23 <fizzie> You guys have noticed you keep wobbling between two revisions, right?
20:31:26 <oerjan> Roujo: boily: i don't think `revert is cumulative. for anything more than the last change you need to look up the repository commit number.
20:31:30 <boily> is there a `vert command to go to the next commit in time?
20:31:36 <nooodl> fizzie: i suspected that
20:31:41 <Roujo> Where is the repo? I'll look it up and fix it =/
20:31:45 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
20:32:03 <Roujo> I'll get right on it
20:32:13 <boily> HackEgo is snubbing me.
20:32:33 <nooodl> you wanna go back here http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/f6f3d9626c03
20:32:56 <Roujo> I didn't realize that `ls cut off
20:33:13 <Roujo> And generally goofed, methinks
20:33:49 <boily> no no no! don't feel sorry!
20:33:57 <nooodl> Roujo: replacing every single entry with "Cats are cool but should be illegal" might actually have been an enhancement to the wisdomdb.
20:34:05 <boily> that's the first time I seen somebody break HackEgo!
20:34:36 <Roujo> That's not exactly what I did, though. I just `run echo Cats are cool > /hackenv/bin/cat
20:34:38 <HackEgo> Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed.
20:34:48 <Koen_> did someone break `learn ?
20:34:49 <Roujo> Which overrided /bin/cat, which is fine
20:34:55 <boily> Koen_: nah. nobody did.
20:35:13 <Roujo> But then catted over important stuff >_>
20:35:29 <boily> Koen_: besides, it's illegal.
20:35:30 <nooodl> <Roujo> Which overrided /bin/cat, which is fine <-- imo this probably isn't fine
20:35:38 <oerjan> Roujo: i think simply `rm bin/cat would have fixed it too
20:35:52 <Roujo> I was waiting for someone to notice it
20:36:01 <Roujo> But then I broke more stuff
20:36:33 <oerjan> nooodl: you can always use the absolute path to get to the /bin ones.
20:37:08 <oerjan> also, we have already overridden `ls on purpose.
20:40:54 <oerjan> i used to occasionally check the repository history, but i've been too lazy recently.
20:41:46 <Koen_> hey just out of curiosity is it a common practice to add a directory of your own, say ~/bin, to PATH in a terminal? so you can have your programs accessible as commands
20:42:14 <fizzie> Sometimes to the end instead of the front of PATH, though.
20:42:55 <Koen_> yes I thought it would be more prudent to add it to the end
20:43:20 <fizzie> (Also having it, say, as ~/local/bin, lets you install e.g. autoconf'd stuff in there with ./configure --prefix=$HOME/local.)
20:43:46 <oerjan> i've got it at the beginning, by the default setup at nvg's servers
20:43:47 <Koen_> not sure I get the subtlety of that
20:44:33 <fizzie> Well, I mean, if you install something with --prefix=$HOME, you end up with ugly ~/lib, ~/share and whatnot.
20:45:06 <oerjan> Koen_: if you're not root, and want to compensate for something being broken, then you definitely would want it at the beginning i think.
20:45:41 <Koen_> so I should put it at the end on my personal computer and at the beginning on my session at school?
20:45:54 <fizzie> I think it mostly depends on what you want to put there.
20:45:55 <oerjan> um this is not official guidance :P
20:46:05 <fizzie> You could even put one directory in front and another in back.
20:47:02 <Koen_> weeeeeell right now random functions I think are cool to have accessible in the shell
20:47:06 <Koen_> like fibonacci or whatever
20:47:08 <fizzie> The "~/local as an installation prefix" is often compounded with LD_LIBRARY_PATH of ~/local/lib, and maybe a PKG_CONFIG_PATH of ~/local/lib/pkgconfig, and assorted other such environment variables.
20:47:18 <Koen_> nothing terribly useful yet
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20:47:27 <nooodl> wow i've been using "alias" all my life
20:47:49 <nooodl> instead of adding stuff to PATH i'd make an alias for it
20:48:23 <Koen_> I make aliases for stuff I'm too lazy to write
20:48:37 <Koen_> like gccw for gcc -Wall -Wextra -Werror
20:52:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
20:52:17 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:52:24 <oerjan> heh i actually have irssi as an alias, because the setup here is such that the PATH contains first a directory with a much older version. or at least did when i made the alias. or maybe it was simply broken, i don't quite remember.
20:53:45 <Roujo> Remnants of simpler times
20:54:49 <oerjan> or rather remnants of the university developing its own multi-os package system way back in the 90's, which now on nvg's servers competes with the usual linux packages and are earlier in the PATH
20:56:15 <oerjan> and is not, i suspect, very well maintained any longer.
21:06:24 <HackEgo> 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.)
21:06:46 <Koen_> are all unicode goats square?
21:06:56 * oerjan does a little dance. very small, as he can't be bothered to get up off the sofa.
21:07:15 <oerjan> oh hm i guess it _might_ be missing its back legs.
21:08:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
21:10:43 <oerjan> what, fileformat.info doesn't recognize the goat
21:13:37 <Bike> all computable functions are differentiable, right?
21:14:57 <Taneb> Bike, I don't think so?
21:16:44 <Taneb> f(x : Rational) if the denominator of the simplest form of x then 1 else 0
21:17:16 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weierstrass_function that's computable, right?
21:17:22 <Bike> oh, differentiable on R i mean
21:17:28 <oerjan> Bike: absolute value function is a counterexample
21:17:52 <oerjan> didn't there use to be a `? `? entry
21:18:27 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:18:34 <Bike> absolute value isn't computable is it
21:19:07 <kmc> it's computable for computable reals
21:20:27 <oerjan> Roujo: subtle. maybe too subtle.
21:22:02 <oerjan> Bike: the thing is, you don't actually need to test equality to 0 for the absolute value.
21:22:36 <Phantom__Hoover> you do need to establish whether a number is nonpositive or nonnegative though
21:23:17 <oerjan> you need to establish _either_ x < epsilon or x > -epsilon for epsilon your asked for accuracy level.
21:23:56 <oerjan> hm, or maybe epsilon/2
21:24:09 <Phantom__Hoover> ...yes, and if x=0 both of those will be false for any epsilon
21:26:17 -!- copumpkin has joined.
21:29:22 <nooodl> help what is computability even
21:30:21 <oerjan> nooodl: you mean in general, or for reals?
21:31:04 <Bike> also i don't know if weierstrass is computable
21:31:19 <Bike> can't even think of a continuous uncomputable function
21:32:16 <nooodl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computable_real_function is it this kind of computable
21:33:11 <nooodl> how do you even prove some function is uncomputable
21:33:23 <Fiora> reduce it to the halting problem?
21:33:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:33:49 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_undecidable_problems or I guess any of these
21:33:57 <Fiora> but I'm guessing almost all of those were proven by reduction to the halting problem?
21:34:13 <Bike> it can be easier
21:34:23 <Bike> like, the indicator function for 0 is uncomputable
21:34:38 <Bike> f(0) = 1, f(anything else) = 0
21:34:55 <Fiora> is that uncomputable for other nujmbers other than zero? like
21:34:59 <Fiora> f(1) = 1, f(anything else) = 0
21:35:21 <Bike> since you need infinite accuracy to determine if two numbers are equal
21:35:27 <oerjan> nooodl: i don't see the point of that sequence stuff...
21:35:41 <oerjan> i guess there are subtleties.
21:35:44 <Fiora> but doesn't that mean that it's O(N) in the size of the input?
21:35:45 <Fiora> that seems pretty computable
21:36:10 <Bike> the "size of the input" as in digits, you mean?
21:36:15 <Bike> because that ain't gonna fly with pi
21:36:20 <oerjan> i expect weierstrass is computable, anyway.
21:36:43 <Fiora> I don't understand, sorry >_<
21:36:51 <Bike> well, what did you mean by "the size of the input"
21:37:01 <Fiora> um... in data? any representation you want I guess? >_<
21:37:08 <Fiora> you have a turing machine that takes an input and generates output
21:37:32 <shachaf> which input are you talking about
21:37:40 <Bike> well, say your computable function is f(n) = the nth digit of the real
21:38:04 <shachaf> you could say that a real number is an infinite stream of bits or something
21:38:08 <Fiora> "1.000000000000.....1"
21:38:13 <Fiora> sorry, accidental up-enter
21:38:36 <Fiora> sorry I guess I just don't really get why it's not computable if you have to read the input to generate an output...
21:38:43 <Fiora> by that logic, like, sorting an array isn't computable...
21:38:44 <oerjan> a computable real _number_ is basically a function which gives you for any n a rational number within 1/n of it.
21:38:57 <shachaf> Fiora: well, the function has to check whether its input is equal to 1
21:39:09 <Fiora> so it has to read N digits of its input
21:39:12 <Fiora> then it answers your question?
21:39:18 <Fiora> the size of your input...
21:39:25 <shachaf> The input is an infinite stream of bits.
21:39:30 <Fiora> that.... that doesn't make any sense
21:39:36 <Fiora> by that logic sorting isn't computable!!
21:39:46 <Bike> what's the size of an infinite stream?
21:39:48 <shachaf> real numbers don't make sense hth
21:39:54 <Fiora> because if your input is an infinite stream of bits, you can't sort it either
21:40:01 <oerjan> Fiora: computable real numbers are programs, not simple data.
21:40:04 <nooodl> man how are real numbers even defined
21:40:09 <nooodl> i've never spent a whole lot of time thinking about this
21:40:11 <Bike> nooodl: dedekind cuts
21:40:19 <Bike> or cauchy sequences.
21:40:34 <shachaf> Fiora: Well, how often do you sort the bits in a number?
21:40:37 <Bike> Fiora: well, yes, why would sorting an infinite stream be computable?
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21:40:44 <Fiora> so... sorting isn't computable either...
21:40:47 <Fiora> um... is anything computable?
21:40:48 <Bike> a /finite/ stream is doable, of course
21:41:03 <shachaf> Lots of things are computable.
21:41:04 <Fiora> I guess things with no dependency on input are computable...
21:41:06 <Bike> Fiora: sorting is computable, sorting the digits of an arbitrary real (a very different and kind of weird operation) not so much
21:41:07 -!- copumpkin has joined.
21:41:11 <Fiora> but I didn't say that ._.
21:41:21 <Fiora> I just said... sorting an input
21:41:23 <shachaf> You can do things within any particular precision you want.
21:41:36 <Fiora> gah nevermind everyone's just ignoring me...
21:41:37 <shachaf> Fiora: You can't even in general check whether two real numbers are equal.
21:41:54 <shachaf> So things like sorting are a problem.
21:42:04 <oerjan> Fiora: sorting is computable actually, but you have to do it by computing maxima and minima _instead_ of testing for < = >
21:42:35 <oerjan> sort [a, b] = [min a b, max a b]
21:43:09 <Bike> annoying fiora with three explanations of different things at once
21:43:20 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: i'm showing that sorting a list of computable real numbers is computable, even though you cannot compare them.
21:43:31 <shachaf> oerjan: what about a stable sort hth
21:43:42 <oerjan> shachaf: sorry, no deal.
21:43:44 <Bike> long live something else
21:44:00 <kmc> btw I thought of a continuous function which is almost everywhere uncomputable
21:44:10 <kmc> a triangle wave is continuous right? (not differentiable though)
21:44:20 <kmc> no I mean even on computable inputs
21:44:44 <kmc> so say that the function on [n,n+1] is a triangle up to +1 if the nth turing machine halts, and a triangle down to -1 if it doesn't
21:45:19 <nooodl> that's a good function
21:45:31 <nooodl> could easily make it everywhere differentiable, too
21:46:12 <nooodl> (i guess you could just integrate that)
21:48:40 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:53:18 <oerjan> oh hm, there's a simpler example of a continuous function that is nowhere computable: the function f(x) = c where c is any uncomputable real.
21:54:38 <nooodl> oerjan: i was literally thinking of that but i thought it was too obvious and i don't know anything about this stuff anyway
21:55:35 <oerjan> kmc's function has, i think, the advantage that it's rational for rational numbers, so sort of the opposite of this.
22:02:04 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: the weierstrass function is defined as a uniformly convergent sequence of computable functions where you can with low complexity calculate all the bounds involved, i'm pretty sure it must be computable.
22:06:58 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: the graphical construction section seems to imply that blancmange is the sum of a series of triangle waves, so i'll hazard a guess it's computable just the same.
22:09:53 <HackEgo> disflagrate v.t.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized.
22:10:22 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/:/perf.:/' wisdom/disflagrate
22:11:05 -!- conehead has joined.
22:11:16 <oerjan> who is the resident polish here nowadays
22:16:04 <oerjan> @ask <Taneb> His exact question was, "where was the tool for the pictures?" <-- are you sure you haven't beat his head too much
22:20:07 <HackEgo> LaTeX is extbackslash textbackslash beginextbackslash \{documentextbackslash \}
22:20:45 <HackEgo> LaTeX is extbackslash textbackslash beginextbackslash \{documentextbackslash \}
22:21:16 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | lowercase) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that."
22:21:27 <kmc> `run sed -i 's/\t/\\t/g' wisdom/latex
22:21:37 <HackEgo> LaTeX is \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \}
22:23:13 <oerjan> wait what's the point of that info=
22:31:08 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/echo/echo -E/g' bin/learn
22:32:23 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo -E "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | lowercase) \ info=$(echo -E "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo -E "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -E "I knew that."
22:37:12 <oerjan> `run echo -E "what\\tnow"
22:37:58 <oerjan> `sed -i '1s/sh/bash/' bin/learn
22:37:59 <HackEgo> Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script-
22:38:06 <oerjan> `run sed -i '1s/sh/bash/' bin/learn
22:38:36 <Phantom__Hoover> <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: the graphical construction section seems to imply that blancmange is the sum of a series of triangle waves, so i'll hazard a guess it's computable just the same.
22:38:41 * Bike looks at oerjan, at clock, back at oerjan
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22:39:05 <oerjan> `run rm wisdom/{ttest,-e}
22:40:06 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/ -E//' bin/learn
22:40:28 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/ -E//' bin/learn
22:40:40 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | lowercase) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that."
22:41:06 <Bike> it's just, you've been doing this for twenty minutes now
22:41:07 <oerjan> ok the option was unnecessary, it's just bash instead of sh
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22:43:35 <oerjan> Bike: well yes, i'm not very good at understanding why shells do stupid things.
22:51:39 <HackEgo> The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time.
22:51:55 <Bike> "My friend and mentor Sam Treiman liked to relate his experience of how, during World War II, the U.S. Army responded to the challenge of training a large number of radio engineers starting with very different levels of preparation, ranging down to near zero. They designed a crash course for it, which Sam took. In the training manual, the first chapter was devoted to Ohm’s three laws. Ohm’s first law is V = IR. Ohm’s second law is I = V/R. I’
22:51:58 <oerjan> `run mv wisdom/the{, neverending work}
22:51:59 <HackEgo> mv: target `work}' is not a directory
22:52:26 <oerjan> `run mv wisdom/the{,' neverending work'}
22:52:48 <Bike> `? the neverending work
22:52:49 <HackEgo> The Neverending Work is what boily is going through trying to map entries that are being put in at the same time.
22:53:38 <oerjan> Bike: you got cut off at I = V/R. I'
22:54:55 <oerjan> Bike: i've been recommended the splitlong irssi script
22:54:58 <shachaf> ll leave it to you to reconstruct Ohm's third law.
22:55:16 <shachaf> Bike: /script load splitlong.pl hth
22:55:39 <Bike> /ctcp bike version
22:55:41 <oerjan> shachaf: that doesn't make it permanent i think
22:55:45 <Roujo> oerjan: So... what did I sublty do?
22:56:08 <oerjan> Roujo: that's very subtly different from undefined
22:56:18 <shachaf> oerjan: hmm, i don't remember doing anything else
22:57:12 <oerjan> shachaf: huh, i recall being told to put it into some directories and stuff.
22:57:24 <Roujo> `run echo Nothing happens wisdom/xyzzy
22:57:26 <HackEgo> Nothing happens wisdom/xyzzy
22:57:32 <Roujo> `run echo Nothing happens. > wisdom/xyzzy
22:57:54 <oerjan> and made an autorun link to itself
22:58:17 <Roujo> `run echo Cats are cool, but should be illegal. > wisdom/cat
22:58:33 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found
23:05:22 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: please comment on realism of this http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/130829.html
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23:12:19 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
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23:17:12 <Phantom__Hoover> oerjan, there aren't any lizards in scotland, saint andrew drove them all away
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23:29:47 <oerjan> i take it they got swapped with the irish snakes.
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