00:00:02 <Roujo> So yeah. TL;DR: Wanting your SO to fill *some* of your emotional needs is healthier for me than not caring *who* fills them. IANALD, YMMV.
00:00:10 <Bike> why do journals without websites even exist
00:01:58 -!- Roujo has left ("Off I go...").
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00:02:11 <Roujo> Nothing happened mmmkay
00:02:37 <Roujo> As it turns out, I can just /clear my backlog
00:04:09 <Solain> good night everybody, goodbye and happy rosh hashana for everybody whose jewish
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00:04:48 <kmc> Roujo: thank you for sharing your cautionary tale
00:04:58 * kmc thinks about it more
00:05:04 <kmc> also what is "LD" in "IANALD"
00:05:40 <kmc> im not a doctor when it comes to love
00:06:23 <kmc> I think when you are close enough to someone you develop needs that are specific to them
00:06:33 <kmc> like, I don't just want a hug, I want a hug /from her/ because we have all this context that makes it more meaningful
00:06:45 <kmc> this could be true of multiple people in different ways, too
00:07:22 <Jafet> You want a hug /from multiple people/?
00:10:42 <oerjan> i thought they only did that to wasps.
00:11:17 <Phantom_Hoover> no, they do it to queens if they stop being reproductively fit and/or anger the proletariat
00:12:11 <Phantom_Hoover> the monarchy would be way more entertaining if we did that in the uk imo
00:13:01 <Bike> sterilize everybody in the UK but the queen, to be more like bees
00:13:12 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: but they'd want to do it to charles, not the queen
00:13:34 <Koen_> Bike: then how do you appoint a new queen?
00:14:10 <Bike> set it up so that a few women randomly become reproductive again when the queens' pheremones stop suppressing them, and then have a cage match to determine which becomes the new queen.
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00:24:50 <Bike> smash the state + replace it with better honeycombing
00:27:16 <Koen_> cage match is dangerous
00:27:35 <Koen_> what if they kill or otherwise mutilate each other
00:27:57 <Bike> i don't think you understand.
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00:38:06 <Koen_> Bike: I'm willing to be enlightened with your explanations and please do feel free to use as much drawings and photos as you want
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00:40:38 <Bike> When a young virgin queen emerges from a queen cell, she will generally seek out virgin queen rivals and attempt to kill them. Virgin queens will quickly find and kill (by stinging) any other emerged virgin queen (or be dispatched themselves), as well as any unemerged queens. Queen cells that are opened on the side indicate that a virgin queen was likely killed by a rival virgin queen. When a colony remains in swarm mode after the prime swarm ...
00:40:44 <Bike> ... has left, the workers may prevent virgins from fighting and one or several virgins may go with after-swarms. Other virgins may stay behind with the remnant of the hive. As many as 21 virgin queens have been counted in a single large swarm.
00:41:19 <Bike> that's not for new queens in the event of a queen dying, o'course
00:42:00 <madbr> kindof trying to find stuff that goes more in detail on how out of order cpus are made
00:42:08 <madbr> they are all incredibly vague
00:42:25 <Bike> isn't that in any modern microarchitecture design textbook
00:43:14 <madbr> like, for the general stuff they explain it
00:43:19 <oerjan> they're not really vague, just printed in the wrong order
00:43:37 <madbr> the register rename thing
00:43:44 <madbr> and reorder buffer
00:43:48 <Bike> do you need register renaming for ooe
00:44:01 <Bike> i had this idea that that was intel being weird as usual
00:44:06 <Koen_> is it a good idea to learn asm by writing C programs, compiling them, then using otool on the binary?
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00:44:28 <kmc> not the worst idea
00:44:38 <Bike> my friend said he was automating his architecture homework by writing a "C to MIPS translator"
00:44:40 <madbr> afaik ooe is normally essentially hardware SSA
00:44:40 <kmc> C compilers will use a different subset of asm than you would probably want to write by hand
00:44:45 <Bike> that was a good chuckle
00:44:54 <kmc> especially on x86
00:45:13 <madbr> like, you have a stream of instructions coming in
00:45:24 <madbr> you turn that into a stream of microops
00:46:06 <madbr> you have a ring buffer of microops and assign them consecutively
00:46:07 <kmc> if you are writing x86 asm by hand you can mostly pretend it's a nice simple RISC-ish architecture... but compilers will exercise a lot of the stranger corners for performance
00:46:24 <madbr> while the retirement logic retires the other end of the queue
00:46:32 <kmc> (although there are also a lot of weird instructions that *seem* useful but are actually too slow)
00:46:50 <kmc> (if compilers don't produce them then chip designers don't optimize them)
00:47:15 <Bike> compiler outputs only bcd instructions
00:47:35 <madbr> since you have a ring buffer of microops already you can simply assign results to a parallel ring buffer of result registers
00:47:46 <madbr> bang, you have register renaming
00:48:33 <madbr> It might be possible to make an OOE cpu without renaming but I'm not sure it makes any sense
00:49:13 <kmc> I wonder if the course materials for MIT's 6.823 would be useful
00:49:15 <kmc> they are online
00:49:35 <madbr> so at any moment you have a queue of instructions that load values from other location in the queue
00:49:46 <madbr> and with a flag to say that the result is valid
00:50:17 <madbr> and then a bunch of execution units
00:50:48 <madbr> and somehow on each cycle it figures out which instruction to assign to each unit
00:50:56 <madbr> with low propagation delay
00:51:23 <Fiora> from what I remember it simply assigns in order of availability (?)
00:51:43 <Fiora> so like, if instruction X can use p0, p1, or p5, it has pretty much equal probability of hitting any of them if they're all free.
00:53:07 <madbr> so it combs through all the non-ready instructions in the queue, checks all of them for having all ready operands, then picks the first 3 ones that are doable?
00:54:48 <madbr> isn't that a lot of computation to do in essentially very low latency gate networks?
00:55:46 <Fiora> Um, I think I remember reading in one place that in like a recent CPU, the "clock bottleneck" (like, the longest latency between two steps of the pipeline?) came from something like "select the first 4 executable instructions from this queue of 40"
00:56:10 <Fiora> like the dependencies and stuff are already done, it just has to comb through and mux the first 4?
00:58:17 <madbr> I thought they might have had some crazy heuristic for that
00:59:53 <madbr> I'm kindof surprised that they don't have worse clock bottlenecks from all the wide renamed register files and reorder buffers and crazy associativity
01:00:20 <madbr> and the gazillion of ports involved
01:01:54 <madbr> like, you have, what
01:02:12 <madbr> 4 alus + 2 address calculation units?
01:02:19 <madbr> each one with two read ports
01:03:04 <madbr> that can pull values from any of the wide file of renamed instructions (essentially one register for every instruction in the reorder queue?)
01:03:57 <madbr> That's like 12 read ports and 6 write ports on a 40+ register file
01:19:27 <kmc> are high end CPUs still made with standard cells or do they optimize certain gates at the physical level for lower delay?
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01:21:26 <kmc> time to break out your electron microscope
01:21:32 <kmc> and hydroflouric acid
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01:22:23 <madbr> presumably they'd concentrate on the previously mentioned "clock bottlenecks"
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01:25:09 <kmc> it must be so difficult to optimize for speed, area, power/heat, and yield all at once
01:27:46 <HackEgo> slist 9/4: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
01:29:29 <pikhq> I'm pretty sure the major secret to Intel's CPU design is "when in doubt throw more money at the problem"
01:30:13 <kmc> that can produce surprisingly poor results
01:30:40 <kmc> money mainly gets used to hire people and the people need to know what the hell they're doing
01:31:57 <pikhq> kmc: See Pentium 4.
01:32:34 <Koen_> funny we had a discussion about go and chess robots earlier and a friend told me the only reason why chess robots were so performant was because so much money had been thrown into it
01:33:04 <kmc> shachaf: -_-
01:33:17 <kmc> yeah it's a funny way of talking about things
01:33:25 <kmc> because "money" is nearly a synonym for "effort"
01:33:35 <kmc> "why is this thing so good" "because people worked on making it good, DUH"
01:34:25 <Koen_> yeah well I was about to tell him why I thought go computers were so bad compared to chess computers
01:34:35 <Koen_> he said "nah it's just the money"
01:34:40 <kmc> computers are good at go now, though http://blog.printf.net/articles/2012/02/23/computers-are-very-good-at-the-game-of-go/
01:35:02 <Koen_> they've started being better than me only very recently
01:35:27 <kmc> likewise the crap about how wanting money is evil... it's how you get the money, and what you use it for, that can be good or evil
01:35:28 <Koen_> and that's stil very very very very very very far from professional players
01:35:45 <Sgeo> kmc: how are they at Arimaa?
01:35:46 <kmc> the stuff about how Real Programmers or Real Artists shouldn't be motivated by money... that's actually incredibly selfish
01:36:20 <kmc> Sgeo: no idea. don't think enough people care about Arimaa
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01:38:37 <kmc> I guess we just assume that people with money will waste it on bougie lifestyle status symbols rather than meaningful experiences, helping friends/family, or helping strangers
01:38:45 <Sgeo> "You can read a commented version of one of its wins against Tromp at GoGameGuru, or you could even play against it yourself on KGS."
01:39:30 <Sgeo> I think I'll do the former. I suck badly enough at Go/I'm enough of a Go newbie that I'd have a limited amount of understanding how its moves are tradionally considered bad
01:40:28 <Sgeo> gogameguru doesn't seem to be loading
01:42:16 <oerjan> wait, is that our tromp
01:43:09 <kmc> trompe le monde
01:44:25 <Koen_> hey, for the record, using monte-carlo in a go program was first done 3km away from my home
01:44:37 <Koen_> and the go program in question became the best go program for a while
01:44:56 <Koen_> and then all go programs started using monte carlo aaaaaaand we never heard of that go program again since
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03:12:44 <Sgeo> Why does OpenSUSE not configure sound card automatically?
03:13:15 <Gregor> Because it's mean and cruel.
03:16:37 <Sgeo> Also need to configure KDE to use the (correctly configured) sound card
03:16:42 * Sgeo bonks head on wall
03:34:07 <Sgeo> sajdfasjfd I better not start feeling nostalgia for Freespire
03:38:50 <Sgeo> At least Linux XP is discontinued
03:40:53 <Sgeo> "Despite frequent calls for a 64-bit edition, the developers have only started considering such possibility in late 2011, arguing that their 32-bit edition works equally well on 64-bit computer systems. "
03:40:57 <Sgeo> [about PCLinuxOS]
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03:46:05 <Sgeo> If someone recomments that a newbie try Linux Mint, they may be confused as to which one to download
03:46:12 <Sgeo> I have not heard of MATE and Cinnamon before now
03:50:16 <Sgeo> Oh hey Amarok's available for Windows
03:50:50 <Sgeo> "Amarok: Comes from the KDE Linux desktop. It is a great media manager with many features. It looks nice but beyond looks it is also very smart."
03:50:58 <Sgeo> "since it is based on GTK, the installation pack is much larger than necessary (over 90Mb)"
03:59:58 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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04:27:33 <kmc> "Spotted car w/ VA license plate NOPSLD."
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05:32:49 <kmc> http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/new-mystery-about-satoshi/
05:35:00 <Bike> decimal gray code <-- ??????
05:36:22 <Bike> «18-10-1960 is the date the article “Socialism, Inflation, and the Thrifty Householder” from Ludwig von Mises was published» lol
05:37:44 <fizzie> A gray code with decimal digits, presumably?
05:37:57 <Bike> well, yes, but why would you ever.
05:38:06 <Bike> on a modern computer, anyway
05:39:19 <kmc> OH: "To get Firefox working in XMonad I think you need some coalgebras"
05:40:02 <shachaf> kmc: that's xterm, not firefox
05:40:23 <shachaf> (the joke is terminal coalgebras)
05:43:21 <shachaf> kmc: remember how Mu is initial and Nu is terminal? good timez
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05:45:22 <shachaf> kmc: would you come to an edwardk talk in sf
05:45:40 <shachaf> hmm, come to think of it, would mozilla maybe have a space for it
05:47:09 <kmc> i don't know
05:47:24 <kmc> now I want to see a decimal gray code
05:49:34 <kmc> probably there are lots of them
05:50:15 <shachaf> Oh, Wikipedia has an example/explanation.
05:50:29 <Bike_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_code#n-ary_Gray_code
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05:51:32 <Bike> so 0...8, 9, 19, 10, 11, ...etc
05:54:02 <Bike> i wonder if a boustrephedon would be more convenient. 19, 18, 17, ... 11, 10, 20, 21, 21, ...
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06:12:53 <fizzie> Bike: "-- 20, 21, 21, ..." I guess that's some sort of gray code with extra redundancy thing.
06:17:18 <kmc> a whiter shade of gray
06:23:33 <madbr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4&feature=youtu.be
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07:50:45 <Taneb> Guess who's an idiot
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09:22:01 <olsner> seems you've been all kinds of interesting while I was sleeping
09:24:52 <olsner> <kmc> are high end CPUs still made with standard cells? <-- I think that was almost answered by the Intel guy's AMA
09:26:05 <olsner> iirc most of the stuff was done automatically but with their own library of secret sauce, then manual layout for the really important bits
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11:30:33 <Taneb> I have blood on my hands
11:31:14 <Koen_> and no matter what you do about it, there will always remain...
11:31:18 <Koen_> blood IN your hands
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11:58:57 <fizzie> I scrub and I scrub and there's still blood in the hands?
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12:16:53 <boily> good what-is-a-shipping-wall morning!
12:23:17 <boily> I Fiora'ed the wisdom. that document is beginning to look not quite too bad :D
12:24:34 <mnoqy> what does that mean :D
12:25:39 <fizzie> boily: Does page 2 say "blank page" in light grey in the middle, or is that just my PDF viewer?
12:26:12 <boily> mnoqy: http://youtu.be/qLrnkK2YEcE
12:26:16 <boily> fizzie: it is your viewer.
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12:28:38 <boily> I feel the typeface used to render Chinese in “ramen” doesn't look right. do any one of you have any suggestion?
12:30:02 <boily> the stroke weights are all random. 麺 is abnormally thin, 縫 is too heavy, and 樹 is glitched.
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13:19:17 <boily> aaaaah... the soulagement of having chosen the right font. why must tex fonts be oh so complex...
13:21:48 <Taneb> boily, a shipping wall is a wall displaying ships
13:22:46 <boily> (that was a thanks, a hello, and a Taneb all-in-one.)
13:23:21 <Taneb> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004195
13:24:07 <boily> oh, that kind of ship. I gues I just never had seen that much dedication to shipping beforehand.
13:25:05 <boily> (well. nanoha and fate notwithstanding.)
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14:08:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
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14:25:52 <boily> upgrade to a cabal 1.18 system: complete!
14:31:20 <metasepia> Error (1): Not in scope: `e'Not in scope: `i'
14:32:26 <boily> ~eval exp (pi * (0 :+ 1))
14:32:46 <boily> Roujo: there you are. -1 + random floating point part.
14:33:13 <Roujo> That's not what I wanted though =P
14:33:46 <Roujo> That's the fun part
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14:34:22 <Bike_> ~eval sqrt(-1) :: Complex
14:34:22 <metasepia> Error (1): Expecting one more argument to `Data.Complex.Complex'
14:34:30 <Bike_> ~eval sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float
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14:52:51 <Roujo> ~eval exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float))
14:53:16 <boily> ~eval exp $ pi * sqrt -1 :: Complex Float
14:53:17 <metasepia> Error (1): Couldn't match expected type `Data.Complex.Complex GHC.Types.Float'
14:53:29 <boily> ~eval (exp $ pi * sqrt -1) :: Complex Float
14:53:29 <metasepia> Error (1): Couldn't match expected type `Data.Complex.Complex GHC.Types.Float'
14:53:37 <Roujo> It's supposed to be -1, really
14:53:41 <Roujo> ~eval exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float)) + 1
14:53:56 <Roujo> So it's just floating dust, really
14:57:23 <fizzie> ~eval exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Double)) + 1
14:58:44 <Bike> ~eval exp (pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex CReal))
14:58:45 <metasepia> Error (1): Not in scope: type constructor or class `CReal'
14:58:45 <metasepia> Perhaps you meant `Real' (imported from Prelude)
14:58:54 <Bike> > exp (pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex CReal))
14:59:24 <Roujo> ~eval (exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float)) + 1) - (exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float)) + 1)
14:59:55 <Roujo> Either it collapses the equation to x - x = 0, or the floating point errors are consistent ^^
15:00:02 <boily> how come I don't have Creal. that shouldn't be so.
15:00:17 <Roujo> You shouldn't not have it?
15:00:35 <Bike> floats are deterministic, eys
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15:01:51 <lsiwe> "If the function takes arguments, declare them; if it takes no arguments, use void." - K&R2 I see code like this too, why is this? Is it explained later in K&R2, or is that all that it's going to say? (Talking about use of void when no args).
15:02:16 <metasepia> Eys is a village in the municipality of Gulpen-Wittem, Limburg, the Netherlands.
15:02:29 <Bike> i think "foo ()" just means it's a function without saying anything about the args, or something
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15:03:39 <Roujo> Something like that, yeah. If you follow that standard, then you can talk about doStuff() without having to specify that it's actually doStuff(Stuff *s1, Stuff *s2)
15:03:57 <Roujo> And without implying that doStuff() takes to arguments
15:04:10 <Roujo> Which is useful when documenting
15:04:13 <lsiwe> Roujo: Was that directed towards me?
15:06:05 <Roujo> When I do documentation, I tend to have sentences like "This method relies on the argument's doStuff() method, which it uses to determine so-and-so."
15:07:10 <HackEgo> lsiwe: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
15:07:11 <Roujo> Now, if doStuff() is actually doStuff(arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5), I don't want to write that out every time, so I use doStuff(). Someone who doesn't know the function, though, might think this means doStuff() doesn't take any arguments.
15:07:15 <lsiwe> Roujo: How come people use it for main(), for example? Just standards?
15:07:33 <Roujo> Using the doStuff(void) when it does not take arguments makes it explicit
15:08:01 <Roujo> I don't know, I always use main with args =P
15:08:10 <Roujo> Even if I don't use them afterwards
15:09:46 <lsiwe> Roujo: Ah, I see people do it for non-documentation reasons, as well.
15:10:06 <lsiwe> int main(void) { /* … */ } for example
15:10:15 <Roujo> Might be. I mostly do Java anyway, and I don't think doStuff(void) is valid there =P
15:11:32 <lsiwe> Roujo: http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100425213029AA7n6Bv
15:11:37 <lsiwe> Seems to be only useful for documentation.
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15:15:52 <Koen_> I usually compile with gcc flags that make it impossible not to use a function's argument
15:16:38 <Koen_> so if I don't need main's arguments, I use main(void)
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15:43:39 <Roujo> Koen_: Nice. What flags make that happen?
15:44:26 <Koen_> Roujo: well my school's correction program usually compiles with -Wall -Wextra -Werror so so do I
15:45:03 <Koen_> one of the three means "consider warnings as errors", another is "have some extra severe warnings that you usually don't have", and I don't know what is the third but something alkie
15:46:38 <metasepia> alkie definition: slang alcoholic.
15:52:20 <boily> ~duck consider phlebas
15:52:20 <metasepia> Consider Phlebas, first published in 1987, is a space opera novel by Scottish writer Iain M. Banks.
15:53:28 <Roujo> That's an odd title
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16:00:48 <Koen_> Roujo: yeah so -Wall adds A LOT of warnings, included about stuff that is legal but dubious, like "you used = instead of == in a condition, please add parentheses or something to insist on the fact that = is assignment"; -Wextra also adds extra warnings, but I think they're more about stuff where the code isn't logic, like if you're testing if an unsigned value is positive, or discarding the result of an expression that doesn't have any
16:00:48 <Koen_> effects; and finally -Werror turns all warnings into errors so the compilation will fail at the slightest warning
16:01:28 <Koen_> however gcc's man doesn't clear state whether the warning about unused arguments is caused by -Wall or -Wextra; in fact it seems to imply it's caused by having both flags
16:01:39 <Koen_> so I will test with only one of the two flags now
16:04:01 <elliott> I think -Wextra implies -Wall...
16:04:38 <elliott> Roujo: the title is a T. S. Eliot quote (I've never read the book but intend to at some point)
16:04:48 <elliott> for that matter, I don't think I've ever read the poem it's a quote from in full.
16:05:11 <Bike> things fall apart?
16:06:09 <Bike> i'm asking what you're talking about since i missed it.
16:06:41 <Bike> wait, that was yeats
16:06:44 <elliott> the title of the book Consider Phlebas by Iain M. Banks
16:06:46 -!- sdf9 has joined.
16:07:05 <Bike> things fall apart is named after a line from a poem that i thought was eliot for some reason. oopsie!
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16:11:09 <Koen_> elliott: the man doesn"t say anything about -Wall to be include by -Wextra
16:12:26 <elliott> Bike: right I was, I kinda assumed that was what was happening but I was worried that maybe I was the uncultured one so I didn't say anything specific
16:12:45 <elliott> also I didn't actually know that it wasn't an Eliot quote, I had to google to check
16:12:52 <elliott> I'm literally an incomplete person without wikipedia
16:20:11 <Gregor> Koen_: Cool cats compile with -Wall -Wextra -Werror -ansi -pedantic
16:21:02 <Koen_> never heard of them
16:22:02 <Koen_> is that a british school?
16:25:45 <Gregor> Cool Cats Polytechnic.
16:26:27 <Gregor> elliott is a student there.
16:34:06 <fizzie> ~duck look to windward
16:34:06 <metasepia> Look to Windward is a science fiction novel by Scottish writer Iain M. Banks, first published in 2000.
16:34:32 <fizzie> (Sorta-sequel, same poem.)
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16:54:07 <Koen_> elliott: so what can you say about cool cats?
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17:10:09 <boily> back from a mexican lunch, elliott is related to everything, and who is sdf9? didn't we see a (~menot@...) yesterday?
17:10:26 <elliott> sdf9 is someone about to get a +b for join/quit spamming
17:10:31 <elliott> and yes they've used about five nicks or something so far :P
17:11:11 <boily> oh. should I expect ion being licked, or are they another person?
17:11:50 <elliott> they're in, um, indonesia, looks like
17:12:57 <Roujo> So you backtraced him?
17:13:54 <boily> the IIITTTSSS strikes again...
17:14:17 <boily> (Indonesian Intimate Ion Terrible Tongue Therapy Subliminal Slimy Squad)
17:15:02 <sdf9> sorry, I do not know why it is happening. :p
17:15:30 <elliott> oh, was the ion-licker indonesian?
17:15:43 <elliott> sdf9: that's okay, we only do the death penalty here if your connection breaks 10 times
17:16:22 <Roujo> elliott: So you're saying that Bike is undead by now?
17:17:39 <boily> I'm sure Bike is allergic to canadian brains, right?
17:18:06 * boily winks to Roujo, and whisper “Play along! We need to stay grouped against the hordes!”
17:19:17 <Roujo> Pretty sure e is *wink wink nudge nudge*
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17:21:42 * boily wields a 150m zombie-proof certified shovel of +3 organic holy aura (locally produced, for greenhouse gas reduction!)
17:27:31 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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17:28:19 <boily> that doesn't bode well for them...
17:28:56 <Roujo> The Clock is Ticking
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17:35:41 <boily> sdf9 is taking the lead over Bike wrt. post-redeundead zombiness.
17:36:41 * Roujo puts on his broadcaster headset.
17:36:56 <Roujo> It's a neck to neck race, boily. Bike will have to work double-time to get back in the lead.
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17:40:19 <boily> uh oh! the gap is widening with this surprise move from sdf9! with only a few laps remaining, we can say that Bike has no chance left! back to you, Roujo.
17:41:44 <Roujo> Thank you, boily. I'm on the edge of my seat right now, since there's no telling when the officials will call for a penatly. elliott has an history of... interesting calls in his line of duty, so predicting the outcome is a daunting task.
17:42:33 -!- sdf9 has joined.
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17:43:37 <boily> It ain't over 'till it's over! both contestants are showing their work, althought sdf9's technique is really shining now! Bike doesn't admit defeat easily, and who knows? elliott's sudden decisions can still bring a lot of surprises!
17:44:09 <boily> but, what is that? an unknown contestant? can you tell us more about sebbu? over to you, Roujo.
17:45:34 <Roujo> Ah, yes, sebbu. 6'7", strong as steel. Tough contestant, although he'll have to show more than that token effort to take the crown.
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17:47:13 <boily> incredible! a fourth contender! I wouldn't like to get ahead of myself there, but I think this is the Match of the Century!
17:47:44 <Roujo> Even better than '84's Contest of Champions, boily&
17:50:55 -!- ^v has joined.
17:52:24 <boily> '84 was an incredible year, but I'm astonished by sdf9's performance here. but let's first ask ^v, our foreign liaison, how he feels about that race?
17:53:03 <^v> i was not alive in 1984
17:54:00 <^v> and i dont participate in history class
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17:54:26 <boily> laconic, but to the point. Roujo, the excitement is palpable here. just imagine the flood of emotions that are washing over those who can be close to the contestants and see them with their own eyes.
17:54:41 <Roujo> Ah, darn shame. Although come to think of it, I wasn't around in '84 either. Oooooh, and he's back!
17:55:12 <^v> you would have to be like 50 c_c
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17:55:31 <Roujo> I didn't think I could get any closer to the edge of my seat, but it seems the sdf9 decided that the Planck Lenght just wasn't short enough! So much excitement!
17:55:32 <boily> but under a different name! wasn't that move ruled unorthodox under last year's International Comittee General Assembly? because if so, that'd be very sad. the elegance...
17:56:16 <^v> my mom was alive in 1984
17:56:31 <^v> boily: who are you and why arent you on topic c_c
17:56:45 <Roujo> It's indeed unorthodox, boily, but very much legal. The worst that could happen is that it's judged unsportsmanly, but the officials seem to be turning a blind eye to such shows of agility and prouesse these days.
17:57:24 <^v> what are you talking about
17:57:56 <^v> none of that made any sense, stop ^%$#ing english D: its bad enough
17:58:24 <Roujo> sdf9's race with Bike to the top of the d/c scoreboard, of course. Such an event, too, very exciting.
17:59:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Roujo.
17:59:53 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v boily.
18:00:39 <boily> it seems we're having some communication problems with our external correspondant. we'll have to temporarily suspend the feed over to ^v...
18:00:57 <^v> you are raping english
18:01:09 <mnoqy> that word is ban here
18:01:36 <Roujo> Ahhh, I can talk better now. Broadcasting to the masses! The race seems to have come to a lull at the moment, with all contestants taking a temporary break. We'll be back after these commercials.
18:02:01 <^v> people who exesively use unnecicary adjectives on EVERYTHING makes me really mad
18:02:08 <kmc> q: what the fuck is going on
18:02:54 <boily> Roujo: si la tendance se maintient, elliott won't be doing nothing soon. do you think he's acting on purpose in order to artificially increase the suspense?
18:03:28 <Roujo> boily: Probably. I don't believe in spontaneous voices, so they must have come from somewhere.
18:03:40 <Roujo> Oh, question from the audience. We go to boily for the answer!
18:05:27 <boily> dear kmc, we don't know either. you'll have to wait for the next round! and for your support, you win a Commemorative Great Redisunconnection Race keychain, 2013 Edition!
18:06:48 <Roujo> Very nice prize, valued at 50 BTC and brought to you by the #esoteric bots. Thank you, bots.
18:10:46 <Roujo> I think that typo will cost ^v some points from the judges... What do you think, boily?
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18:11:04 <nooodl> `thanks #esoteric bots
18:11:05 <HackEgo> Thanks, #esoteric bots. Thesoteric bots.
18:11:17 <nooodl> wow that's actually good i guess. i expected it to break
18:11:37 <boily> is that a... 7... a 6... and what? a three from the third panelist! nooodl, why so harsh a judgment?
18:11:38 <^v> i dont think its a bot
18:11:56 <Roujo> `run echo I beg to differ
18:12:27 <boily> ~echo I concur. HackEgo is a bot.
18:12:54 <nooodl> going to have to give a 10 on the "turing test" category here though. (3 + 10)/2 still a nice score
18:13:36 <Roujo> Questionable reasoning, but solid answer. We now go to our resident race analyst, fungot. Fungot?
18:13:36 <fungot> Roujo: and is one thing which you might want more? and some stuff in my youth. ( under establishment)? i maintain my curiousity. i really enjoyed such powers... now it's nick!userhost-limited to me, and ile not wish thee more
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18:13:58 <^v> what the hell
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18:14:01 <Roujo> Wiser words, boily. Wiser. Words.
18:14:21 <^v> are getting
18:14:22 <Roujo> Oooh, and Bike's back in the race! Nice timeout there, a little high, could be rounder, but still fantastic.
18:14:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
18:14:24 <^v> out of hand
18:15:47 <boily> simply in-cre-di-ble, I say. I knew that Bike wouldn't admit such a position. nice move there. I applaud his ingenuity. the execution wasn't perfect, as you kindly remarked, but considering what level of exhaustion he must be in, it is still quite impressive.
18:15:57 -!- Bike has joined.
18:16:15 <mnoqy> (it's a pun on welcome back)
18:16:21 <Bike> elliott: never fear! if someone in a conversation is acting like an idiot but it's not me you can assume it's me. it's one of many services i offer.
18:17:21 <Bike> "but it's not obvious who"*, not "it's not me", because it is me
18:18:58 <boily> Roujo: elliott is finally active! what will be his next move?
18:19:06 <Roujo> Now, viewers, please direct any criticism on this race's reporting by using the `complaint command. Our house elves will examine and reply shortly.
18:19:19 <Roujo> Wait, what was `complaints. Feel free to report that as well.
18:19:56 <Roujo> boily: I have no idea, but I can't wait. The competitors have been fiercly arguing about the legality of sbf9's nick change, and I'm hoping the issue will be resolved shortly.
18:21:05 <Roujo> Wait, it's actually sdf9, not sbf9. I smell a penalty.
18:21:53 <boily> ah, so many opportunities lost! what are the umpires doing?... wait!... is that?... yes, we got our feed back to ^v!
18:22:17 <boily> ^v: do you feel rules should be more strictly enforced?
18:23:05 <^v> stop pinging me or im going to leave
18:23:29 -!- ^v has changed nick to StopPingingMeRou.
18:23:46 -!- StopPingingMeRou has changed nick to StopItBoilyRoujo.
18:24:39 <Roujo> We mean no harm. We live to report, that is all. No pings for you, then.
18:24:42 -!- billion57 has joined.
18:24:49 <Roujo> `complaint Pings seem to be too frequent
18:24:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: complaint: not found
18:24:55 <Roujo> `complaints Pings seem to be too frequent
18:24:57 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
18:25:58 <Roujo> `run mv bin/complaints bin/complain
18:26:01 <boily> `relcome billion57
18:26:04 <HackEgo> billion57: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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18:38:14 <Roujo> And another point for sdf93! The count just keeps on couning, doesn't e.
18:40:07 <olsner> perhaps I should build an out-of-order cpu one day
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18:42:49 -!- STOP_KICKING_ME has joined.
18:43:14 <Roujo> STOP_KICKING_ME: Nobody's kicking you. You're doing this to yourself.
18:43:37 <Roujo> Think about it. Look inside yourself. You will see: I speak only truth.
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18:50:11 <Roujo> IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_: Sure it's you. You keep closing the connection.
18:50:15 <Roujo> >STOP_KICKING_ME [~menot@118.99.127.142] has quit IRC: Remote host closed the connection
18:50:35 <Roujo> Good People Don't Close Connections Like That Mmmmkay?
18:50:40 <Roujo> kmc: What's what for?
18:50:45 <kmc> what is going on
18:51:06 <HackEgo> olist (917): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly
18:51:40 <Roujo> kmc: IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_ keeps d/c'ing, but says we're kicking him.
18:51:53 <Roujo> Nevermind the fact that nobody is op here.
18:52:04 <kmc> im op here
18:52:08 <elliott> IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_: would it help if I kicked you??
18:52:10 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
18:52:11 <Roujo> Well, not right now =P
18:53:18 <elliott> I think I may be addicted to petty abuse of power ;_;
18:54:12 <shachaf> elliott: i could've told you that
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19:58:42 <boily> abuse of power is good. especially with chocolate milk.
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20:21:32 <boily> fizzie: how's the tvtroping?
20:21:47 <boily> (do we have dates associated with `quotes? that one seems very old)
20:24:38 <olsner> hg blame on the quotes file?
20:27:26 <kmc> god damn it, I upgraded my graphics drivers and now I can't use valgrind on this program I need to debug :(
20:28:14 <boily> olsner: oh. right.
20:30:30 <HackEgo> 687) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. <fizzie> Glurk.
20:33:21 <olsner> surely tvtropes is a bit longer than that?
20:33:47 <fizzie> (See the referred-to quote.)
20:33:57 <HackEgo> 234) <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: I have just one tvtropes page open in elinks, but my tvtropes.txt "queue" has 38 tvtropes.org URLs waiting for processing.
20:34:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17188
20:35:27 <fizzie> I probably haven't updated that file for a year, though.
20:37:41 <kmc> isn't software engineering such a wonderful profession
20:38:55 <Bike> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security "SSL is dead"
20:43:45 <boily> fizzie: your quotes are included in the PDF!
20:48:51 <fizzie> boily: I'm confused. Wasn't the PDF about wise things?
20:50:17 <boily> well, you know, like, feature creep and all that. besides, reformatting quotes is fun!
20:50:21 <boily> (no, I am not insane.)
20:51:06 <boily> btw, is glumgot a bot?
20:51:38 <olsner> I think so but I have no idea what it does
20:52:45 <boily> I like Philip Glass. one two three four five six ♪ faaaa faaaa faaaa faaa ♪
20:58:56 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:59:29 * oerjan swats everyone (including ais523 in absentia) for not telling his /// quine had been reddited.
21:00:03 <fizzie> boily: Huh, there's surprisingly many of them.
21:01:13 <boily> fizzie: I still have to reformat the behemoths of augur and Bike's quotes, but yours was still substantial enough.
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21:01:28 <boily> oerjan: ais523 has a reddited quine? where? where?
21:01:33 * boily needs his reddit fix!
21:01:58 <oerjan> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ljhm9/this_is_one_pleasantlooking_and_completely_insane/
21:04:01 <oerjan> ...i guess not to be hypocritical, i should mention this is currently top of proggit http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ls0bc/brainfuck_interpreter_in_brainfuck/
21:06:07 <nooodl> oerjan: how did you even make that quine help
21:06:51 <oerjan> i modified the coding method from the BCT interpreter
21:06:56 <boily> github has bf syntax hiliting. I am scared.
21:07:47 <oerjan> which itself was modified from the slightly more readable loops in the exampes above.
21:08:58 <olsner> sometimes I feel like the rest of the world is doing more esolang work than #esoteric
21:09:17 <boily> hey, we do have a wiki about esolangs. I honestly forgot about it... >_>'...
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21:16:31 <oerjan> nooodl: ///\\ is a quoting prefix, if you remove that you will find a copy of the surrounding program inside. the rest then makes two copies of that (one inside the other), and modifies the quoting prefix appropriately in each copy.
21:17:49 <oerjan> pretty standard quine on a higher level.
21:20:06 <kmc> Bike: oh it's because the new graphics driver is using a different malloc
21:20:20 <oerjan> i think we had a discussion here once where i helped someone make a similar quine without the /\ only obfuscation.
21:23:12 <oerjan> other things starting with ///, like ///\/\/\ at the end, may be considered tokens/labels.
21:23:40 <oerjan> (that one is the label for where the final output form ends up, btw.)
21:30:47 <HackEgo> 803) <Gregor> !rot13 Fluttershy Rainbow Dash Rarity Applejack Twilight Sparkle Pinkie Pie <EgoBot> Syhggreful Envaobj Qnfu Enevgl Nccyrwnpx Gjvyvtug Fcnexyr Cvaxvr Cvr <olsner> oh, they're all named after rot13'd welsh words
21:33:53 <boily> oddly, LaTeX hyphenated Nccyr-wnpx.
21:34:38 <oerjan> nooodl: btw that unreadable label choice started from thinking about how to program using /\ only, and noticing that ///// would never show up naturally in a program, then whittling it down by restricting the coding style somewhat. (the BCT interpreter manages with just two slashes, but the quine needed three unless i added cruft that would have made it longer in total anyway.)
21:34:44 <boily> and now, with Gregor's quotes up to date, time to go enbooze myself.
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21:45:22 <oerjan> nooodl: also btw i used haskell programs to put this mess together :)
21:45:56 <oerjan> the /\ only style was a bit much to keep track of with vim :)
21:45:57 <nooodl> i gotta go right now but i'll dissect the whole thing a bit later, maybe
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21:55:59 <oerjan> > sqrt(-1) :: Complex CReal
21:57:03 <oerjan> > exp (pi * (0 :+ 1)) :: Complex CReal
21:58:55 <oerjan> oh duh you already did it
22:07:46 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/el?iot?: No such file or directory
22:07:55 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/el*iot*: No such file or directory
22:08:03 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/el*iot*
22:08:05 <HackEgo> wisdom/elliot \ wisdom/elliott
22:08:12 <HackEgo> No one was ever called Elliot.
22:12:54 <kmc> gaaaaaaaah and now it segfaults half the time, but never in Valgrind
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22:18:19 <elliott> kmc: fix the bug by making the program exec itself under valgrind
22:19:54 <Roujo> elliott: That's... a terrible idea
22:19:59 <Roujo> And yet so tempting
22:20:18 <Roujo> You missed my reign
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22:25:02 <tswett> Hey, do we know someone named Wei Dai? thx
22:25:18 <Koen_> Wei Dai: not in scope
22:25:41 <tswett> @tell boily Not sure what you're referring to.
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22:30:50 <kmc> `which c++filt
22:31:00 <kmc> `echo _ZNK13GrGLInterface5GLPtrIPFviPKjEEcvS4_Ev@plt | c++filt
22:31:01 <HackEgo> _ZNK13GrGLInterface5GLPtrIPFviPKjEEcvS4_Ev@plt | c++filt
22:31:06 <kmc> `run echo _ZNK13GrGLInterface5GLPtrIPFviPKjEEcvS4_Ev@plt | c++filt
22:31:07 <HackEgo> GrGLInterface::GLPtr<void (*)(int, unsigned int const*)>::operator void (*)(int, unsigned int const*)() const@plt
22:31:58 <kmc> isn't that a wonderful name for a function
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22:49:10 <kmc> status: writing debug helpers in C, injecting them with LD_PRELOAD, and calling them from gdb
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22:49:48 <Bike> "can't you at least write them in Rust"
22:49:58 <kmc> yes but then I would have two problems
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22:54:35 <Bike> write debug helper in rust, inject them into rustc with ld_preload, call them from... uh... gdrust??
22:56:13 <Bike> gnu derust? yeah, sure.
23:04:27 <kmc> i have a big jar of rust remover at my house
23:04:29 <kmc> i should bring that in one day
23:05:37 <Koen_> so in ocaml, && and || are lazy
23:05:54 <Bike> just thrhow rust remover all over the office
23:05:55 <Koen_> but if you define a function as let f = (||);;
23:05:59 <Bike> THIS IS WHAT I THINK OF YOUR DAMN LANGUAGE
23:06:03 <Koen_> then f is not lazy
23:06:37 <Bike> Koen_: this doesn't seem surprising?
23:06:47 <Koen_> yeah but why is || lazy ?
23:06:52 <Koen_> it's supposed to be a function
23:06:58 <Koen_> functions in ocaml are not lazy
23:07:13 <Bike> also totally unrelatedly
23:07:24 <Bike> i just saw "just-in-time" in the context of pedagogy :|
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23:07:46 <Koen_> I just saw just-in-time in the context of compiling befunge programs
23:07:54 <Koen_> what's just-in-time in the context of pedagogy?
23:08:08 <Bike> "I recommend an alternative, historically inspired ordering of population genetics topics, based on progressively increasing mathematical difficulty. This progression can facilitate just-in-time math instruction."
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