00:14:19 <Roujo> The rest was just squares
00:14:24 <Roujo> Apart from INVISIBLE TIMES
00:14:41 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GOAT'"
00:14:50 <Roujo> `unicode GOAT RULER OF THE DEEP
00:14:51 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GOAT RULER OF THE DEEP'"
00:14:59 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'TR\xc3\x89MA'"
00:15:05 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UNICODE'"
00:15:11 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HAT'"
00:15:43 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'A'"
00:15:52 <Roujo> `unicode LATIN LETTER
00:15:53 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'LATIN LETTER \x16'"
00:15:58 <Roujo> `unicode LATIN LETTER B
00:16:00 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'LATIN LETTER B'"
00:16:14 <Roujo> `unicode GREEK LETTER CAPITAL PHI
00:16:15 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GREEK LETTER CAPITAL PHI'"
00:16:24 <Roujo> I don't even know what I'm doing, tbh
00:16:32 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'CAT'"
00:16:37 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'NOT CAT'"
00:16:39 <Roujo> `unicode UNDEFINED
00:16:41 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UNDEFINED'"
00:16:44 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'NULL'"
00:16:55 <Roujo> `unicode '; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; --
00:16:56 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name ''; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; --'"
00:17:01 <Roujo> Now that's just sad
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00:17:15 <Roujo> `unicode "; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; --
00:17:17 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: 'undefined character name \'"; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; --\''
00:20:47 <Roujo> Apparently, SQL injection attacks don't affect unicode characters
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01:55:16 <Bike> thank god not everything involving "table" uses sql
02:03:54 <ion> U+110E4 BOBBY TABLES
02:06:28 <ion> I meant, U+110E48
02:16:28 <Bike> https://twitter.com/nottechmeme it's beautiful
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04:01:05 <lambdabot> boily said 15h 24m 40s ago: I think the alise mystery got leaked yesterday. but, I happily have a git repo backing the whole thing in case the Revelation was False, and it can be easily unmerged.
04:01:05 <lambdabot> boily said 15h 23m 58s ago: that wasn't an hesitation. it was... uh... only a pause. yeah. I was taking a breath, there. y'know, asthma and all that sort of thing...
04:01:54 <oerjan> @tell boily Good, good. Well, not the asthma.
04:05:32 <ion> What’s the alise mystery?
04:06:44 <oerjan> who alise is, of course.
04:06:58 <HackEgo> 91) <fungot> alise: why internet is like wtf \ 95) <alise> like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English <ais523> alise: that's great filler <alise> ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... \ 98) <fungot> alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia \ 102) <A
04:07:42 <oerjan> in soviet russia, fungot fnords the state.
04:07:42 <fungot> oerjan: it looks vaguely serious but crap... lost my program? ( and vice-versa)
04:08:03 <oerjan> fungot: it's ok the su got disbanded anyway.
04:08:03 <fungot> oerjan: no nothing. but is it dynamically extensible, which interactive operation is a subset
04:15:52 <ion> What’s the Revelation and what’s the “whole thing” you have in git?
04:16:08 <Bike> the revelation is the answer to the alise mystery
04:22:20 <oerjan> ion: the git thing is presumably the revisions to his wisdom/quote formatting
04:25:37 <Sgeo> boily is missing so many more revelations
04:25:39 <Sgeo> Or at least one
04:25:58 <Sgeo> `pastequotes uorygl
04:26:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14740
04:26:04 <Bike> the apocalypse of john
04:26:17 <Sgeo> `pastequotes ihope
04:26:23 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10538
04:27:44 <oerjan> i don't think he's used ihope since the quote database started.
04:28:07 <Sgeo> `pastequotes warrigal
04:28:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28897
04:28:41 <Sgeo> At least one of those is not #esoteric
04:29:26 <oerjan> the aftran one, i presume
04:30:17 <oerjan> it's no. 65, i guess there remains more of the old quotes than i thought.
04:30:41 <Sgeo> "<zzo38> There is Haskell program “pandoc” to convert formats, so I
04:30:41 <Sgeo> make “panchess” which is the similar thing but for chess."
04:30:53 <Sgeo> How many chess formats are there?
04:31:10 <Sgeo> pgn, anything else?
04:31:22 <Bike> algebraic notation?
04:31:39 <oerjan> well there's the algebraic one, the old british whatchamacallit, expanded algebraic whatchamacallit...
04:31:58 <oerjan> and being zzo38, i assume he knows other obscure ones.
04:32:58 <oerjan> probably including for chess variants.
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04:33:59 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_notation#Notation_for_telegraph_and_radio fascinating
04:36:12 * oerjan wondered why the section link didn't work, then realized he'd included "fascinating"
04:39:15 <ion> `? mojibake
04:39:16 <HackEgo> mojibake _ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌÍÍ̦̻ͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌͨÌÌ´Í
04:46:38 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8661
04:47:08 <oerjan> hm i suspect ` must be something in regex
04:47:28 <Bike> `pastelogs complain
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04:47:38 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16103
04:47:41 <oerjan> i think that will give too much
04:48:01 <oerjan> but i realized ^ is the problem.
04:48:13 <Bike> i just wanted to see if it was empty.
04:48:59 <oerjan> `pastelogs > [`]complain
04:49:15 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15733
04:50:18 <Bike> `run cat $(which complain)
04:50:19 <oerjan> except for it containing a complaint about me. sheesh, the nerve...
04:50:20 <HackEgo> echo "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.
04:50:27 <Bike> `cat complaints
04:50:48 <Bike> `complain complaints is empty
04:50:49 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
04:50:52 <Bike> `cat complaints
04:50:57 <oerjan> `run echo test >>test; cat test
04:51:01 <HackEgo> echo bash- >> /dev/null \ test
04:51:02 <Bike> `cat bin/complaints
04:51:15 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `tst': No such file or directory
04:51:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?complaints: not found
04:51:22 <oerjan> `run echo test >>test; cat test
04:52:49 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Sep 6 22:35 complaints -> /dev/null
04:54:03 <oerjan> well that _is_ tradional, i guess.
04:55:20 <oerjan> oh well `pastelogs exists.
04:58:59 <oerjan> @tell <Roujo> Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended
05:02:36 <oerjan> @tell Roujo Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended
05:03:03 <oerjan> `complain @tell _still_ doesn't strip <>s from nicks. or does it?
05:03:05 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
05:03:14 <oerjan> @tell <oerjan> FOR SCIENCE!
05:04:23 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Roujo.
05:07:39 <oerjan> apparently google translate thinks t'aimerais trop ça is lithuanian.
05:09:22 <oerjan> @ask boily What's "t'aimerais trop ça", google translate seems clueless
05:12:21 <oerjan> i see the hexham conspiracy thickens.
05:13:18 <HackEgo> Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico
05:14:12 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
05:15:21 <Bike> hay chi hua hua
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06:38:19 <coppro> discovery: my school has an OED subscription
06:38:32 <coppro> there goes 20 hours of my life
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07:00:24 <fizzie> Can you read the whole thing in 20 hours?
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07:17:27 <coppro> no, but I imagine that's roughly how much time I'll waste with it
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07:20:44 <HackEgo> shubshub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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08:02:44 <oerjan> fizzie: fatal fungot failure!
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08:06:15 <fizzie> (Restarting fungot during a meeting: so bad?)
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08:08:39 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
08:08:40 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c |
08:08:40 <myndzi> /| c.c |\ /< | | /| c.c >\ | /| |/´\ c.c /|
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12:31:45 <boily> good stupid morning!
12:32:50 <boily> @tell oerjan «t'aimerais trop ça.» → “you'd like that way too much”.
12:35:36 <boily> bien le bonjour, Taneb.
12:36:31 <Taneb> I got my copy of Ryan North's To Be Or Not To Be today
12:37:55 <boily> as seen through the Amazon, it looks very interesting!
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12:41:54 <boily> Roujo-san gokigen'yō.
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13:07:47 <fizzie> Hm. 2.3215e+54 is a curious value for a probability density function to have.
13:09:09 <boily> fizzie: dirac pulse?
13:09:35 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan fuck you canada
13:10:58 <fizzie> boily: It's an EM-estimated GMM, but I think there was some forced clamping in the training data, so there's probably quite the sharp peak at the clamping edge.
13:11:53 <boily> bleh. couldn't you smooth that?
13:12:49 <fizzie> I guess, though I'm not sure how much it matters.
13:14:16 <fizzie> The variances of the (8) Gaussian components seem to be 0.0041, 0.0002, 0.0012, 0.0001, 0.0339, 1e-8, 0.0090 and 0.0480. No points for guessing which component mean equals the clamping value.
13:15:56 <boily> «cachez ce 1e-8 que je ne saurais voir.»
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13:39:21 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
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14:03:12 <Roujo> `complain `pastewisdom doesn't actually past anything
14:03:13 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
14:03:25 <Roujo> `complain s/past/paste/g
14:03:27 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
14:03:35 <Roujo> `complain s/pastee/paste/g
14:03:36 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
14:03:49 <lambdabot> oerjan said 9h 1m 12s ago: Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended
14:04:25 <Roujo> @tell oerjan Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended <-- Are you a soft drink? Didn't think so. Then you don't know the things that I've seen...
14:04:40 <Roujo> Also, wooo, I have voice again
14:05:26 <Roujo> boily: Roujo-san gokigen'yō. <-- Nani? =P
14:08:11 <boily> Roujo: ごきげんよう 《ご機嫌よう; 御機嫌よう》 (int) (1) (uk) how do you do?; nice to meet you; (2) adieu; farewell; bon voyage
14:11:29 <boily> Roujo: quite the formal version of the plebeian “oh hai”, but yes.
14:12:13 <Taneb> I'd say "Ciao", boily and Roujo, or "Good day"
14:13:02 <Roujo> boily: Say I want to learn me a japanese for great good
14:13:05 <Roujo> Where should I start?
14:13:31 <boily> Roujo: if we ever meet, I could lend you my schoolbooks.
14:14:09 <Taneb> boily, Roujo, do you have a Taneb/elliott thing going on
14:14:16 <Roujo> `run echo " He's also a NaniDispenser." >> wisdom/boily
14:14:22 <Taneb> ie. live in the same place but have never met
14:14:46 <Roujo> boily is the brother of one of my friends
14:15:00 <Roujo> And yeah, we both live in Montréal
14:15:03 <Taneb> Did you find this channel independently?
14:15:23 <Roujo> I think I just followed ais523 in here
14:15:34 <Roujo> Either ais523 or oerjan, can't remember
14:15:43 <Taneb> I got here from the wiki, and elliott's been here pretty much forever
14:15:49 <Roujo> I spent a couple of week here before realizing who boily was
14:16:21 <Roujo> `run echo << wisdom/boily
14:16:22 <HackEgo> bash: warning: here-document at line 0 delimited by end-of-file (wanted `wisdom/boily')
14:16:34 <Roujo> `run echo < wisdom/boily
14:16:43 <Roujo> I don't know what that actually did
14:17:13 <HackEgo> boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. \ He's also a NaniDispenser.
14:17:41 <Roujo> `run sudo s/ / /g | wisdom/boily
14:17:43 <HackEgo> bash: wisdom/boily: Permission denied \ bash: sudo: command not found
14:17:54 <Taneb> Don't sudo it, it's on root anyway
14:18:12 <Roujo> boily: You seem to be implying that I know what I'm doing
14:18:33 <boily> let me re`learn myself there... :P
14:18:44 <Roujo> `run sed s/sudo/sed/g | sudo s/ / /g | wisdom/boily
14:18:58 <boily> `learn boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser.
14:19:08 <Roujo> I think I broke something
14:19:47 <HackEgo> bash: wisdom/boily: Permission denied \ bash: sudo: command not found
14:19:51 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, and Go.
14:20:00 <Roujo> Wow. That took a while.
14:20:43 <Roujo> `run sed s/(.)/\1/g
14:20:45 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `sed s/(.)/\1/g'
14:23:22 <boily> `run echo poulet | sed -i 's/(.)/\1/g'
14:23:24 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 10: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS
14:23:53 <boily> `run echo poulet | sed -i 's/(.)/\0/g'
14:24:21 <HackEgo> ♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪
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15:14:28 <metasepia> CYUL 111500Z 22011G16KT 10SM FEW006 FEW240 27/22 A2991 RMK CF1CI2 CF TR CF TR SLP127 DENSITY ALT 1500FT
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15:16:02 <boily> Roujo: I'm cumulating today's METARs at CYUL. so far I have 7 entries: http://pastebin.ca/2448292
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15:16:26 <Roujo> So the ceiling is going up
15:16:38 <Roujo> Which is pretty cool if you're 2k feet tall
15:17:42 <lambdabot> boily said 2h 44m 51s ago: «t'aimerais trop ça.» → “you'd like that way too much”.
15:17:42 <lambdabot> Roujo said 1h 13m 16s ago: Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended <-- Are you a soft drink? Didn't think so. Then you don't know the things that I've seen...
15:18:28 <boily> Roujo: the layer at 24 000' is thickening. air pressure is still quite wobbly. I guess we're set to have interesting storms.
15:22:23 <oerjan> <Roujo> `complain `pastewisdom doesn't actually past anything <-- that's a feature of `paste which i may be the one who programmed.
15:22:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
15:22:43 <Roujo> Well that's just wrong
15:22:48 <Roujo> It doesn't actually paste anything
15:23:19 <Roujo> `run cat cat >> bin/pastewisdom
15:23:30 <oerjan> will you bloody stop that
15:23:53 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ \ /hackenv/bin/pastewisdom: 3: Meow~~: not found
15:24:06 <Roujo> I thought it was echo Meow~~
15:24:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
15:24:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom
15:25:06 <oerjan> right, that's why it doesn't use `paste directly.
15:25:25 <Bike> `? irrelevant info
15:25:27 <HackEgo> KHL?%y9vnkM_v46$Tn`ʋxkH2gqH;!;2F(zإ2CmXW
15:25:35 <oerjan> it would then only show the directory listing rather than having links.
15:25:51 <boily> Roujo: ỹõũ ãr̃ẽ ãb̃ũs̃ĩñg̃ t̃h̃ẽ t̃ĩl̃d̃ẽ t̃õd̃ãỹ.
15:26:06 <Roujo> boily: And you just took the crown =P
15:26:42 <boily> oh, my bro just commented on the wisdom PDF. his reply: «Weeeeeirdooooooo.
15:27:39 <oerjan> insufficiently nerdy brother, check
15:28:15 <oerjan> and this is supposedly the board game geek too
15:29:36 <boily> Roujo: do you witness that? someone not believing in Pouti's nerdiness.
15:30:17 <oerjan> boily: hey he doesn't approve of the wisdom PDF, what more proof do i need?
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15:30:56 <boily> oerjan: he was probably commenting on the fact that I LaTeXed the whole thing, knowing him.
15:31:33 <oerjan> he disapproves of latex? your brother is the anti-knuth!
15:31:47 <boily> (as a proper little brother, he has this playful antagonistic stance with me, like not wearing an orange shirt on Friday purposefully)
15:32:03 <oerjan> that sounds very antagonistic.
15:32:15 <Taneb> As an elder brother myself, I can sympathize
15:32:37 <oerjan> i'm sure this orange shirt thing is very important to the quebecois somehow.
15:33:17 <oerjan> darn i forgot the accent again. also which one it is, and possibly where to put it.
15:33:45 <Roujo> Antagonistic Québécois is Antagonistic
15:34:16 <oerjan> what there's actually supposed to be two?
15:34:30 <boily> oerjan: well, yeah? what's the problem?
15:34:57 <oerjan> the accents are breeding and taking over the world?
15:35:30 <Roujo> I don't knöw what you'rè talkíng aböût
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15:43:27 <oerjan> ok so what does nani mean
15:44:23 <oerjan> <Roujo> boily: Roujo-san gokigen'yō. <-- Nani? =P
15:44:33 <HackEgo> boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser.
15:47:53 <Roujo> But then, who's on nani?
15:49:09 <oerjan> ah google translate can give suggestions if you write the romaji
15:51:29 <boily> that's the boring way. it's much better to reenact old sketches, I say.
15:52:23 <boily> just installed vim2hs. automatic indentation, integration with syntastic and hlint, folding of top-level declarations...
15:52:46 <Roujo> `run cat oerjan > oerjan2thereturnofoerjan | /dev/null
15:52:50 <HackEgo> bash: /dev/null: Permission denied \ cat: oerjan: No such file or directory
15:53:00 <Roujo> What do you mean I can't pipe stuff to the void
15:53:02 <boily> that thing is magical
15:53:41 <oerjan> who else thinks Roujo should learn a little more shell before experimenting with HackEgo.
15:53:54 <boily> oerjan: I vote NAY.
15:56:15 <Roujo> oerjan: What use is a bot if you can't fuck up its filesystem every once in a while
15:56:50 <oerjan> i'm talking about fucking up fucking up the filesystem here.
15:57:08 <HackEgo> a.c \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ bsdmreclist \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ god \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ Meow~~ \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan2thereturnofoerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ random \ run \ share \ src \ test \ testing \
15:57:15 <Roujo> On a more serious note, I know I still have much to learn re: shell scripts, but I'm figuring I might as well learn it here, where people can help me. Worst case, I just `revert the mess I made.
15:58:01 <HackEgo> cat: bsd*: No such file or directory
15:58:05 <HackEgo> <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits
15:58:38 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/b??mreclist
15:58:40 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/b??mreclist: No such file or directory
15:58:49 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/b*reclist
15:58:51 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/b*reclist: No such file or directory
15:59:06 <HackEgo> cat: bds*: No such file or directory
15:59:10 <HackEgo> * oerjan swats quintopia -----###
15:59:34 <oerjan> ...you know that doesn't work.
15:59:40 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `bdsmreclist bsdmreclist': No such file or directory
16:00:05 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
16:00:28 <HackEgo> * oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits
16:00:29 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: stop making the same error i keep doing
16:00:41 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `vs `run mv' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
16:00:53 <HackEgo> cat: oerjan: No such file or directory
16:01:44 <oerjan> hm it supports empty files now?
16:02:04 <elliott> it's directories it doesn't do
16:03:03 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
16:03:09 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Sep 11 16:02 oerjan
16:03:21 <oerjan> elliott: i think you are mistaken
16:03:36 <HackEgo> a.c \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ god \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ Meow~~ \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ oerjan2thereturnofoerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ random \ run \ share \ src \ test \ testing \ wisd
16:04:04 <oerjan> `run rm oerjan2* a.out
16:05:08 <HackEgo> WC`\R:6`nqq zi2JOĄSgKSp2"af%s{}bԤca;8螧W[cq ƃZ,i*`(o3֮kS'Xl+!K:-A$p%8C&«* X$[_4J0O)H~lN<W*+o6@apjVYLŶy{ڤX%J{F^[L&暝nGsҕj WGFfKaR>vkhTH,IRw }mjÈ
16:05:15 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
16:05:21 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 499 Aug 19 17:48 random
16:05:33 <HackEgo> a.c \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ Meow~~ \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ share \ src \ test \ testing \ wisdom \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
16:05:34 <Roujo> oerjan the Cleaner
16:05:41 <HackEgo> main() { foo:; int x = 3; goto foo; }
16:06:08 <oerjan> `run mv bdsmreclist wisdom
16:06:48 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ canary \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ share \ src \ test \ testing \ wisdom \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
16:07:43 <Roujo> `run cat raise_them | rm
16:07:46 <HackEgo> rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
16:08:00 <Roujo> Why doesn't that work?
16:08:12 <oerjan> `run fgrep 'ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ' wisdom/*
16:08:14 <HackEgo> wisdom/solain:ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ \ wisdom/ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ:ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
16:08:27 <oerjan> `run rm raise_them ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
16:08:33 <Roujo> Yeah, that was to mess with solain a bit
16:08:49 <oerjan> the wisdom ones can stay
16:09:19 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom
16:09:32 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove `oerjan': Directory not empty
16:10:15 <HackEgo> awesome \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData
16:10:30 <oerjan> `run mv oerjan/cat share; rmdir oerjan
16:10:50 <HackEgo> 01001000 H \ "'""'""".> \ 01100101 e \ "''""'"'.> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01101111 o \ "''"''''.> \ 00100000 \ ""'""""".> \ 01010111 W \ "'"'"'''.> \ 01101111 o \ "''"''''.> \ 01110010 r \ "'''""'".> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01100100 d \ "''""'"".> \ 00100001 \ ""'""""'.> \ 00001010 \ """"'"'".>
16:11:06 <Bike> `cat share/radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab*
16:11:10 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom
16:11:10 <HackEgo> http://50.117.26.26:9903/Live | (#1 - 0/500) MitamineLab
16:11:43 <elliott> oerjan: you realise the irony of the botspam here? :P
16:12:18 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
16:12:25 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Sep 11 16:11 oerjan
16:12:32 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove `oerjan': Directory not empty
16:12:58 <HackEgo> awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData
16:13:13 <HackEgo> bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom
16:15:30 <oerjan> well i think the top directory listing should fit on one line so people can see what's in the directories below.
16:15:59 <oerjan> and it tends to fill up with junk after a while.
16:16:29 <Roujo> At least I can still `run cat cat
16:16:36 <Roujo> Which is all I'm asking, really
16:17:19 <oerjan> ...didn't i remove the cat :(
16:21:31 <oerjan> <Roujo> Why doesn't that work? <-- because rm takes arguments, not input
16:21:34 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host).
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16:21:54 <oerjan> (you may want to check out xargs)
16:23:56 <oerjan> actually, you don't want that but _if_ you found a situation where you need to turn input into arguments, you would.
16:26:22 <oerjan> Roujo: | makes the output of the first command into the input of the second.
16:28:12 <oerjan> it's one of unix's great inventions.
16:28:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
16:31:13 <oerjan> the difference between `run and without run is a HackEgo thing, which makes it too easy to forget for those who know shell. :(
16:31:32 <HackEgo> ♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪
16:31:38 <HackEgo> ♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪
16:31:54 <Roujo> Oh, right. Freedom doesn't take arguments, so it doesn't care, right?
16:32:07 <HackEgo> echo ♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪
16:32:41 <Roujo> So basically, `command arg1 arg2 turns it into one argument that's "arg1 arg2"?
16:32:50 <Roujo> While `run command arg1 arg2 correctly handles the arguments
16:33:07 <oerjan> well correctly according to shell convention.
16:33:46 <oerjan> it's so that HackEgo can have commands that treat their argument line however they want.
16:34:12 -!- Bike has joined.
16:34:21 <oerjan> otherwise you'd have to use shell escaping on everything.
16:35:38 <oerjan> that's not the actual implementation
16:35:55 <oerjan> `run is special cased so that it cannot be broken.
16:36:30 <HackEgo> cat: /bin/run: No such file or directory
16:36:44 <Bike> 'special cased' as in 'not in the filesystem'
16:36:48 <HackEgo> cat: bin/cat: No such file or directory
16:36:51 <elliott> unfun fact: you can have either of `run and `revert be implemented in bin/, but both means you can break it irrecoverably
16:36:53 <HackEgo> ELF............>.....@.....@.......@..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@........................................@......@............................................@.......@.....̲......̲........ ....................`......`.....T.............. ...........(......(`.....(`............................
16:36:55 <elliott> (without Gregor's intervention)
16:37:11 <Roujo> Good thing that's not the case, then ^^
16:38:02 <Roujo> Is there a way to determine who's using the shell?
16:38:17 <Roujo> That is, differentiate between me using a command and oerjan using it?
16:38:19 <elliott> yes, you can look at the logs
16:38:25 <Roujo> From a command, I mean
16:38:27 <oerjan> elliott: well you cannot break just `run irrecoverably, i think.
16:38:28 <elliott> yes, you can look at the logs
16:38:42 <Roujo> elliott: What do you mean?
16:38:47 <elliott> oerjan: it is ok if you can break `run as long as you can `revert
16:38:54 <Bike> you can grep the logs to see who's running the current command
16:39:00 <elliott> it is ok if you can break `revert as long as you can `run the equivalent
16:39:05 <Roujo> Ah, cool. Thanks Bike
16:39:10 <elliott> but if both break you can't do much.
16:39:13 <Bike> see `list for an example
16:39:16 <Bike> if we still have it, anyway
16:39:24 <HackEgo> ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb
16:39:26 <oerjan> elliott: hm i was thinking you could `/bin/sh but of course that won't work due to just one argument.
16:39:35 <elliott> oerjan: maybe `/usr/bin/env
16:39:40 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/env: ls --help: No such file or directory
16:39:42 <Bike> list lists everyone who's ever run `list
16:39:52 <Bike> no you're on the list!! forever!!
16:39:55 <Bike> good job you fool
16:40:06 <Roujo> I'm in good company =P
16:40:20 <HackEgo> ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb
16:40:28 <Roujo> So... How does it work?
16:40:37 <Bike> `run cat $(which list)
16:40:38 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*<//;s/>.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' '
16:40:39 <HackEgo> cat: list: No such file or directory
16:41:09 <Bike> that's gonna break when we hit 2020
16:41:20 <Roujo> So I can just grep the last command from IRC and act according to that
16:41:24 <elliott> it'll just attain perfection!
16:41:49 <elliott> Roujo: beware of race conditions
16:41:51 <HackEgo> _ai \ _corewars \ _esoteric \ _esoteric-chess-variants \ _esoteric-minecraft \ _esoteric_shadow \ _\FRIends*foR*evEr\ \ _FRIends*foR*evEr \ _glogbot \ index.php \ log \ log.css \ log.js \ _plof \ raw \ _scapegoat \ stalker.php \ _weaaM
16:42:09 <oerjan> elliott: looking at the logs won't work for commands in private btw
16:46:39 <oerjan> `head /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2013-09-11.txt
16:46:41 <HackEgo> 00:14:10: <Roujo> Me too =P \ 00:14:19: <Roujo> The rest was just squares \ 00:14:24: <Roujo> Apart from INVISIBLE TIMES \ 00:14:33: <Roujo> ùnicode GOAT \ 00:14:35: <Roujo> ... \ 00:14:39: <Roujo> `unicode GOAT \ 00:14:41: <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in <module> \ print u"".join(map(un
16:47:26 <oerjan> elliott: actually you can fix it with `fetch, as long as that works.
16:47:40 <elliott> oerjan: by doing `/bin/sh fixscript?
16:47:58 <elliott> hmm so you could have every single command be in bin/ then, I suppose
16:48:03 <elliott> just it'd be a fuss when people are idiots
16:49:26 * Roujo whistles innocently
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16:49:39 <oerjan> Roujo: no, more idiots than that.
16:49:49 <oerjan> or did you just do something.
16:50:01 <Roujo> I just felt targetted
16:50:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre.
16:50:18 <Roujo> But yeah, I try not to break anything permanently
16:50:34 <Roujo> I mostly just put stuff in bin/ that overrides stuff in /bin/
16:51:23 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found
16:51:35 <elliott> `run echo 'exec "$@"' >bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\`
16:51:42 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found
16:52:01 <elliott> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin\`; echo 'exec bash -c "$@"' >>bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\`
16:52:07 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found
16:52:21 <elliott> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin\`; echo 'exec bash -c "$*"' >>bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\`
16:52:27 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found
16:52:39 <elliott> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin\`; echo 'exec $*' >>bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\`
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16:52:44 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found
16:53:08 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found
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16:55:55 <HackEgo> exec "$@" \ exec bash -c "$@" \ exec bash -c "$*" \ exec $*
16:56:43 <oerjan> `run echo 'exec bash -c "$1"' >bin/\`
16:57:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found
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17:00:26 <ais523> the reflections on trusting trust thing is really annoying me atm
17:00:45 <ais523> you know what #esoteric could plausibly do? a stack of languages that bootstraps a C compiler from x86 machine code
17:00:55 <oerjan> the dangers of reading proggit
17:00:56 <ais523> with each individual stage being simple enough that the source code can be read to verify that there's no backdoor
17:01:02 <ais523> oerjan: yeah, it's all over the place there
17:01:14 <ais523> IMO it's a nonissue, but from-zero-to-C sounds like an interesting project anyway
17:01:25 <boily> back from lunch, and the ACS has significantly dropped.
17:01:26 <Roujo> Oh, the evil compiler thing?
17:01:29 <ais523> especially because it's what the still-unfinished Underlambda was invented for
17:01:30 <elliott> http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/ [actual thesis]
17:02:59 <ais523> it's more that I think the verifiable-stack thing would be an interesting project
17:03:09 <elliott> it's not Reflections on Trusting Trust, if you're assuming it is; but I mainly linked it for others
17:03:17 <ais523> it's the diverse double compiling thing, isn't it?
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17:05:21 <ais523> also, you get really paranoid people who worry if maybe all the compilers currently in existence are compromised, with knowledge of each other to propagate it indefinitely
17:05:37 <ais523> so theoretically there's a small security benefit from the zero-to-C thing
17:05:45 <ais523> I guess the remaining potential issue would be a backdoor in the processor
17:06:01 <ais523> you might want to synthesize your own processor in order to get around the issue
17:06:14 <boily> people should write their new projects without using any preprocessor directive.
17:06:16 <ais523> but that's getting a little extreme, and what if there's a backdoor in the synthesis tools as well?
17:06:26 <ais523> boily: you're worried about a trusting-trust attack on cpp?
17:06:41 <boily> ais523: me? oh, no. I just like people suffering when writing cpp.
17:06:41 <Taneb> What sort of path would 0->C take?
17:06:45 <ais523> that would be rather easier than one against gcc, come to think of it
17:06:57 <ais523> Taneb: I was thinking Forth -> Underlambda -> not sure
17:07:00 <fizzie> "From zero to c in 60 seconds."
17:07:14 <ais523> maybe directly, Underlambda can be high-level when it feels like it
17:07:15 <Taneb> fizzie, that's ridiculous acceleration
17:07:28 <Taneb> ais523, is Underlambda spec available anywhere?
17:07:36 <ais523> Taneb: no, because it isn't finished
17:07:44 <ais523> but it was invented for these sort of purposes
17:07:52 <ais523> think Underload with a bunch of extra commands added and no S
17:08:02 <ais523> it was quite a strong influence on Snowflake, fwiw
17:08:30 <ais523> it's hard for me to imagine concatenative languages without things like infra/ultra nowadays
17:09:02 <ais523> which allow you to conflate data manipulation commands and stack manipulation commands
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17:24:10 <boily> ~duck concatenative
17:24:11 <metasepia> Software description: a Ruby DSL for concatenative programming (Ruby).
17:24:25 <boily> bleh. the horror. another ruby DSL.
17:26:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
17:29:26 <ais523> that's probably not the best result, really
17:29:34 <ais523> think Underload for what concatenative languages are normally like
17:29:42 <ais523> or for a less esoteric example, Joy
17:29:54 <boily> I had forth in mind, but any reason to think more about underload is good.
17:30:34 <boily> in a way, befunge is also concatenative. well, in four ways.
17:31:06 <ais523> it's not 100% concatenative because of g
17:31:15 <ais523> just like Underload is not 100% pure functional because of S
17:32:15 <boily> that's the problem I have with IO actions that don't do nothing else than output data.
17:32:38 <boily> I mean, they're obviously not pure, but from a practical standpoint they're predictable and don't alter the state of the running program.
17:33:20 <boily> so, from mathematics "S" is evil, but from programming it's just plain old print.
17:34:10 <boily> we need to rewirte the universe over to get pure IO.
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17:37:06 <Roujo> What would pure IO be?
17:37:43 <Roujo> From my understanding, pure means "with no side-effects", right?
17:38:36 <mnoqy> what the heck is pure io
17:39:37 <boily> pure IO is something that doesn't exist in this Universe. we need a new one.
17:40:09 <boily> In a World... where IO has no Side Effects... where everything is Pure and hasn't been Tainted by Procedures...
17:40:34 <Roujo> But doesn't IO pretty much imply that there's a side-effect somewhere?
17:40:42 <Roujo> That is, whatever you wrote to?
17:40:45 <Bike> depends on what you mean by IO i guess
17:40:54 <boily> depends on waht you mean by universe.
17:40:58 <ais523> boily: oh, S is evil because it can distinguish between equivalent functions
17:40:58 <Roujo> Let's just consider the output part
17:41:14 <Roujo> If I write to a file, there's an obvious side-effect that the file is now bigger
17:41:39 <Roujo> Not having that side-effect implies that the file will be in the same state no matter how many times I call write("Hello world")
17:41:51 <Roujo> Which kind of sounds impossible to me
17:42:07 <Bike> you could have write(file,"Hello world") return the new state of the file
17:42:09 <ais523> so you have to track the original source code of every bit of code
17:42:10 <Bike> that sorta thing
17:42:27 <Roujo> But then it's not really a file, is it? It's just a state in memory.
17:42:33 <ais523> you could use the Haskell cheat, and have your program output a description of how to interactively modify the universe
17:42:46 <Bike> Roujo: what's the difference
17:43:17 <Roujo> I guess the difference would be that you don't have the old file anymore
17:43:30 <boily> Bike: write(file, "Bonjour tout le monde") is a uniqueness type.
17:43:30 <Roujo> File file2 = write(file, "Hello world")
17:43:43 <Bike> your mom's a uniqueness type.
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17:44:32 <Roujo> Well, you have to keep file around
17:44:36 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: are you unique? do you cheat with side-effects? what do you think of writing an apple pie?
17:44:41 <Roujo> Since you could use it again, I guess?
17:44:57 <Roujo> Then again, I'm not all that good at thinking the functional way
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17:46:16 <Roujo> Are there even variables in pure functional languages?
17:46:27 <Roujo> I'm guessing that there aren't, but I'm not sure
17:46:35 <boily> there are, but they aren't what you're thinking about.
17:46:46 <Roujo> Well, they're not exactly variable, right?
17:46:56 <Bike> Roujo: in the function \x -> x * x, the value of "x" in the functional body is variable
17:47:09 <Bike> "variable" doesn't mean "is explicitly altered"
17:47:26 <Roujo> It just means "can take different values", right?
17:47:29 <Bike> just that it's not always the same value. "varying", if you wil
17:47:31 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_(mathematics)
17:48:09 <boily> Roujo: for parallel programming, you can have something that looks like a variable, acts like a variable, but in essence is not. it's more like message passing.
17:48:23 <Bike> more of a duck
17:48:25 <Roujo> So you have a file you want to write to
17:48:44 <Roujo> write(read("myfile"), "Hello world")
17:48:53 <Roujo> Which would return... a new file object?
17:48:59 <Bike> well, that's one way
17:49:11 <Bike> in haskell you instead of "doing" IO return a "thing that does IO", like ais said
17:49:16 <Roujo> But then if I call read("myfile") again, the file isn't the same, right?
17:49:24 <Roujo> Is that what a monad is?
17:49:43 <Roujo> I heard about monads, I just don't know what they are =P
17:49:57 <boily> monads are a good way to understand monads.
17:49:59 <Roujo> Monads don't matter right now
17:50:00 <Bike> basically a non-functional program involves implicit state
17:50:05 <Bike> such as the state of the file system
17:50:12 <Bike> in a functional system, all this state is made explicit
17:50:16 <Bike> somehow or another
17:51:01 <Roujo> So, you call write(read("myfile), "Hello world)
17:51:12 <Roujo> And it returns some "thing" that'll write to the file?
17:52:04 <Koen_> I'm having the same interrogations as Roujo
17:52:15 <Koen_> in Ocaml the read and write functions aren't really functional at all
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17:52:31 <Bike> hi fuck everythigngn
17:53:00 <Bike> if i bump my netbook the network card dies
17:53:12 <Roujo> I don't see how external read/write functions can be, well, functional at all
17:53:31 <Bike> Roujo: the thing you said is one way.
17:53:51 <Roujo> Bike: Is there another, purely functional way?
17:53:52 <Bike> Roujo: another way is to pass the state of the filesystem around, like i said. this could be somewhat less practical because that's probably pretty big, but whatever.
17:54:10 <elliott> I haven't actually read much of this but the focus on state is misleading.
17:54:10 <Koen_> so you return a whole new computer with the file edited?
17:54:23 <Bike> elliott: well excuuuuuuse me princess
17:54:27 <Roujo> Koen_: Try a whole new universe
17:54:37 <Koen_> Roujo: we have a joke esolang for that I reckon
17:54:48 <Bike> elliott: i can bring up RealWorld if you want!!!
17:55:03 <Koen_> yeah it's called functional brainfuck, or something
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18:01:26 <boily> @tell Bike another bump?
18:03:15 -!- Bike has joined.
18:03:36 <Bike> boily: no, that was physical motion away from the network node (gasp)
18:03:46 <Bike> NO LAMBDABOT I WILL NOT
18:03:51 <Bike> @clear-messages
18:04:16 <boily> Bike: tell us more about your relationship with lambdabot.
18:07:08 * boily gives a bot plush to Bike
18:07:18 <boily> could you point on the plush where lambdabot touched you?
18:09:28 <boily> (btw, what shape has a bot?)
18:13:53 <Roujo> boily: My bots have a foot-like shape.
18:14:00 <Roujo> More comfortable that wat
18:14:17 <Bike> foots have many different shapes!
18:14:56 <fizzie> fungot: Do you have any feet?
18:14:57 <fungot> fizzie: i'm surprised i'm actually capable of keeping on a project together?' ' sub?' ' sub?' ' to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules.
18:15:17 <boily> Bike: that was a bilingual pun. a horrible, terrible bilingual pun.
18:15:38 <fizzie> "Conan, what's best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules." I think that's from a movie.
18:16:18 <boily> `addquote <fizzie> "Conan, what's best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules." I think that's from a movie.
18:16:22 <HackEgo> 1104) <fizzie> "Conan, what's best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules." I think that's from a movie.
18:16:50 <Bike> me too, fungot. me too
18:16:50 <fungot> Bike: i need to write your fingerprint as you have a function
18:17:33 <Roujo> That's surprisingly readable
18:17:49 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
18:18:55 <HackEgo> Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. Best summarized by http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05743.gif
18:19:00 <ais523> hey, anyone got advice? I'm trying to track down a bug in C-INTERCAL that happens consistently in one ick executable and not in another ick executable compiled from the same source
18:19:01 <Phantom__Hoover> i have just sat through a drawn out bbc news piece presenting the ~shocking fact~ that american hospitals have half the mortality rate of british ones
18:19:17 <ais523> symptoms are that the structure created by the parser doesn't match the parser's debug output, nor make any sense
18:19:21 <ais523> immediately after the call to yyparse
18:20:26 <Phantom__Hoover> the fact that the life expectancy in the UK is 2 years higher than that in the US was not mentioned
18:20:33 <Bike> «The New York patients had paid for treatment through private medical insurance and were therefore likely to be "wealthier and healthier", whereas the NHS patients were from all social classes» fascinating
18:21:01 <Phantom__Hoover> the fact that the healthcare spending per capita in the UK was brought up, once, to an american who just responded "well is it really at the end of the day"
18:22:30 <ais523> the only difference between the executables appears to be that instructions of the form "movl $0x8086b74,(%esp)" use different constants
18:22:44 <ais523> which is to be expected if they compiled identically but linked differently
18:23:07 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: that's not quite a sentence
18:24:50 <ais523> let's see if I can reproduce this in another directory tree, first
18:24:54 <ais523> if I can, I'll try with -pie
18:25:03 <Bike> i have no idea what you're talking about ais but it sounds gross so good luck
18:25:54 <ais523> I was hoping someone would have advice :(
18:26:48 <Taneb> ais523, sounds like a nasty heisenbug
18:26:53 <boily> once you introduce proto-indo-european to a compiler, you are doomed.
18:27:23 <ais523> Taneb: hmm… it seems the source is actually different, I just recursive-diffed
18:27:37 <ais523> the difference being one declaration, where something is declared as an int not a bool
18:27:38 <Taneb> That helps, I guess
18:28:02 <ais523> that could cause that sort of crazy corruption I'm seeing, if it's being called as an int but received as a bool or vice versa
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18:37:50 <Taneb> elliott, how do I do the dwarf fortress text-stream again
18:38:23 <Taneb> I think you used it to watch crawl or something
18:39:38 <mnoqy> did it look anything like
18:39:48 <mnoqy> script -f >( cat ~/.ratry_login - | nc noway.ratry.ru 31337 > /dev/null )
18:40:11 <Taneb> I remember something about rats
18:40:24 <Taneb> Thank you mnoqy now how does that work
18:40:25 <mnoqy> you'll also need a ~/.ratry_login of the form
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18:40:29 <mnoqy> hello name password
18:40:58 <mnoqy> where hello is hello, name is a name, and password is a password to be associated with that name
18:42:03 <Taneb> And how do people watch?
18:42:09 <mnoqy> and once you have that you just run it and do stuff on your terminal and it will show up on termcast.org (accessible by `telnet termcast.org`)
18:44:27 <elliott> 19:44:10 <ChrisOelmueller> who is Taneb
18:44:27 <elliott> 19:44:16 <ChrisOelmueller> oh god DF
18:46:29 <boily> I still haven't perfected the transition from oka to TSO, and now that 0.13 is looming around I feel it's gonna be even more difficult because of the random crypt replacement.
18:46:34 <mnoqy> Taneb: how big is your terminal?
18:50:25 <ais523> ooh, people talking about termcast.org?
18:51:31 <Taneb> ais523, watch me play Dwarf Fortress!
18:51:41 <elliott> Taneb: "is this new termcast from some secret channel"
18:52:08 <ais523> fwiw, I was thinking of adding termcast as an uncursed backend
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19:05:42 <ais523> oh wow, it's crashing in clang too
19:07:58 <ais523> the thing is, this happens even with the release tarball downloaded from overload.intercal.org.uk
19:08:27 <ais523> hey, could someone help me test this? download http://overload.intercal.org.uk/c/intercal-0.29.pax.gz , untar, configure, make check
19:08:30 <ais523> and let me know if the tests pass
19:11:54 <boily> ais523: yes. everything passes, and ends with «echo $?» equal to 0.
19:12:05 <ais523> OK, so it's something to do with my machine, I guess
19:12:41 <boily> I'm on «gcc (GCC) 4.8.1 20130725 (prerelease)».
19:13:07 <metasepia> pax definition: a tablet decorated with a sacred figure (as of Christ) and sometimes ceremonially kissed by participants at mass.
19:13:26 <boily> I didn't know the Christ could handle lossless compression...
19:13:50 <ais523> boily: pax isn't a compression format, that's gz
19:13:53 <ais523> it's an archiving format
19:13:57 <ais523> specifically, the POSIX standard format
19:14:02 <ais523> nobody uses it, which is why it's perfect for INTERCAL
19:14:09 <ais523> (although I've seen sightings of it in the wild on Mac)
19:14:39 <ais523> also it's forwards-compatible with tar, so any tar program can handle it fine
19:14:47 <boily> oh, right. it's the tar part that got substituted with a pax.
19:14:56 <boily> and the reason I could «tar xaf» the archive.
19:15:29 <ais523> what does the a stand for?
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19:16:27 <boily> ais523: automatic format detection.
19:16:55 <boily> I still don't know why bz2 is «j».
19:17:12 <fizzie> Me neither, but xz is probably J because of bz2 being j.
19:18:37 <Roujo> boily: Julian Sweard would be my guess
19:19:14 <elliott> boily: "xf" should work with a modern tar
19:19:16 <fizzie> Just one of the few free letters, possibly.
19:19:34 <fizzie> "It's... It's beautiful. What do you call it?" "Huh? Oh, I don't know. I'm not much of a flower... scientist...guy." --Advance Wars: Days of Ruin. (I've been reading LPs.)
19:21:28 <boily> elliott: too simple. tar has to keep its Mystic Aura intact.
19:22:12 <ais523> fizzie: clearly you have the better translation
19:22:15 <ais523> because I don't remember that line
19:22:32 <ais523> I have the UK version, whose translation is inferior in almost every way, except CO names
19:22:35 <fizzie> ais523: Do you remember: "Isabella, you're a person! A real living person with ideas and dreams and...and stuff like that!"
19:22:43 <ais523> fizzie: she wasn't called Isabella
19:23:04 <ais523> she was called Catleia in the UK version, because they /did/ know what the flower was called in that verison
19:23:27 <fizzie> "No, I wait! I remember... This is a Cattleya isabella. It's a natural hybrid of the orchid family. Cattleya... Yes, that's it! That will be myname."
19:23:42 <fizzie> "I will be named after this beautiful flower you brought me. My name is Cattleya!"
19:23:42 <metasepia> a long-playing phonograph record; designed to be played at 33.3 rpm.
19:23:48 <fizzie> "Uh...Cattelya? Wow, that's...that's uh... That's kind of hard to say, actually. How about we call you Isabella? That's really pretty. It fits you better."
19:23:51 <ais523> (ofc, what she's called is different from her name; it's a plot point that she doesn't have a name)
19:24:53 <ais523> hmm… this bug is 100% reproducible and consistent in its behaviour
19:25:08 <ais523> next step, I guess: to get the parser to print out each expression it parsed immediately after parsing it
19:25:44 <boily> ais523: which gcc are you using?
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19:26:22 <ais523> gcc 4.7.3, also clang 3.2
19:26:36 <ais523> if it's UB, it'd be most likely to act differently on the two compilers…
19:27:04 <ais523> not necessarily, ofc; UB can be tricky to pin down
19:27:20 <metasepia> Funkeys, a computer game for children Ugly Betty, an American dramedy series which sometimes uses the abbreviation.
19:27:23 <ais523> also, I just noticed that C-INTERCAL attempts to determine if passing _Bool through varargs (which is UB) works via experiment
19:27:47 <ais523> boily: do you expect ~duck to actually produce useful results for programming-specific acronyms, or are you just doing it for fun?
19:28:28 <ais523> UB = undefined behaviour
19:28:30 <Roujo> I use `? for that purpose
19:29:08 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/undefined_behaviour
19:29:17 <boily> I'm hoping for the day that ~duck will produce something relevant. as for now, I just contemplate the answers given.
19:29:31 <olsner> was it *really* not possible to define how _Bool works with varargs?
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19:30:39 <ais523> olsner: well if you follow the usual definitions, you'd expect it not to work
19:30:48 <ais523> unless sizeof _Bool happens to equal sizeof int, which it normally doesn't
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19:34:34 <ais523> basically, if va_arg were implemented using sizeof, it wouldn't work correctly for anything smaller than an int
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19:39:25 <ais523> because of default integer promotion
19:43:26 <FreeFull> You could go the other way and use a language that has no implicit casting whatsoever
19:46:44 <fizzie> It's default argument promotion; it involves more than just integers, after all.
19:47:32 <ais523> fizzie: or the other other way and have BCPL
19:47:40 <ais523> where there's only one type, the n-bit value
19:47:45 <ais523> (with a fixed n per BCPL compiler)
19:47:49 <ais523> I guess n would have to be 64 nowadays
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20:12:48 <metasepia> CYUL 112000Z 29010KT 12SM FEW030TCU SCT045 BKN120 BKN210 28/21 A2987 RMK TCU2SC1AC2CI2 CB EMBD SLP116 DENSITY ALT 1600FT
20:14:30 <Roujo> http://helloworldquiz.com/
20:15:41 <ais523> without following the link, I'm guessing… a website that shows you hello worlds, and you have to guess the language?
20:15:49 <ais523> 99bob would be more interesting, probably
20:19:04 <Roujo> Probably more interesting, but this is still fun ^^
20:19:10 <Roujo> Just saw Chef go by
20:21:31 <boily> I like how some samples have subtle hints in them that have nothing at all to do with writing an idiomatic hello world.
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20:21:52 <boily> e.g. lua, which uses a superfluousitudinal comment to point to the fact that it is lua.
20:22:24 <Roujo> olsner: It's always 4 wrong answers
20:22:29 <Roujo> Since you have 4 lives =P
20:22:48 <Roujo> boily: Some also use misdirection, which is fun!
20:23:02 <boily> Roujo: that I noticed, too. the scoundrels.
20:23:09 <olsner> hmm, I thought I had 5 lives
20:23:09 <Roujo> Also, the C one is technically also valid C++ =P
20:23:28 <Roujo> olsner: Huh. So you do.
20:23:45 <olsner> since c++ was an option, you "know" that there will be another one with iostreams and "proper" c++isms
20:23:45 <ais523> are there any really-heavy-eso hello worlds in there?
20:23:53 <boily> I... think they draw from our Noble Wiki...
20:23:54 <Roujo> Befunge is in there
20:23:57 <ais523> or BF disguised as Malbolge, you could probably get away with that
20:24:06 <boily> chef, shakespeare, lolcode, omgrofl...
20:24:07 <ais523> if the program were sufficiently long
20:24:17 <Roujo> Didn't see omgrofl =P
20:24:27 <olsner> a whitespace program might be interesting for a quiz like that
20:24:39 <mnoqy> since when are lolcode and omgrofl really-heavy-eso
20:24:44 <mnoqy> aren't they just dumb syntax stuff
20:25:01 <boily> they are there to lure you in a sense of dull overconfidence.
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20:26:38 <olsner> oh, make a brainfuck derivative quiz
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21:12:10 <Taneb> http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/grab-a-vodka-and-calm-down-accommodation-meltdown-as-york-freshers-are-forced-offcampus-8809847.html
21:12:26 <ais523> Taneb: are you going to York, by any chance?
21:12:28 <ais523> also, are you one of them?
21:12:39 <Taneb> Yes, but I've got a place to live
21:12:50 <Taneb> I am one of the not very lucky but still lucky ones
21:13:10 <Taneb> I know someone in another channel who is still looking and I think is quoted in that article
21:15:43 <Taneb> Anyway, I'm off to bed
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22:38:23 <Fiora> kmc: oh gosh, they were right
22:38:25 <Fiora> http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/new-york-times-provides-new-details-about-nsa-backdoor-in-crypto-spec/
22:38:31 <Fiora> Dual_EC_DBRG was in fact written by the NSA
22:39:09 <Bike> challenge in finesse <-- i really hate these people
22:40:48 <Bike> i like how scheiener's blog post said he didn't see it being a backdoor because it was too obvious
22:42:39 <Bike> «Green's post was strongly worded as he wrote, "the NSA has been doing some very bad things"»
22:43:15 <Bike> but yeah smash the state etc.
22:44:26 <Bike> well, they're defending the united states's security by putting backdoors in its security standards.
22:44:48 <Bike> it's pretty fucking dumb
22:45:03 <Fiora> I'd guess this one is Computationally Hard to reverse-engineer, at least?
22:45:34 <elliott> I thought the deal was it's easy to decrypt if you pick the parameters in a certain way and know how you picked them, or something
22:45:49 <Fiora> I meant, like, if you knew the secret parameters
22:45:50 <Bike> it's easy to predict the PRNG output if you know some numbers related to the parameters
22:45:55 <Fiora> but figuring out those is Hard?
22:46:01 <Fiora> unless you're the NSA and already have them
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22:46:07 <Fiora> so like, it's a backdoor that they're confident nobody else can get
22:46:12 <Bike> or a foreign intelligence agency that has the capability to get them.
22:46:14 <Fiora> unless someone spies on them and steals them <.<
22:46:21 <lmt> is Halite really 10 years old?
22:46:21 <Bike> 'cos like... yeah.
22:47:01 <olsner> hmm, but that articly only says that the NSA wrote the algorithm? not explicitly that they did put a back door in it?
22:47:10 <Bike> the article's oversimplifying.
22:47:41 <olsner> apparently they "generated one of the random number generators"
22:47:42 <Bike> olsner: http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2007/11/securitymatters_1115
22:47:53 <Bike> (the scheiner article i mentioned)
22:48:00 <ais523> random number generator generator
22:48:07 <Bike> "I don't understand why the NSA was so insistent about including Dual_EC_DRBG in the standard. It makes no sense as a trap door: It's public, and rather obvious." particularly
22:50:29 <kmc> and a shitty prng too
22:50:43 <Bike> apparently vista adopted it at some point though?!
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22:55:36 <Bike> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/12/dual_ec_drbg_ad.html oh, not actually doing anything directly.
22:55:55 <Bike> "You know what would be scary? If they secretly started using this algorithm even if you requested something else. Could anyone tell? What if they only pulled the switch under specific conditions (i.e. Chinese language versions)?" digging the comments
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23:17:03 <Bike> `welcome Elielson
23:17:05 <HackEgo> Elielson: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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23:18:29 <Bike> i don't know that one i'm afraid
23:19:59 <Bike> because "Lord of the Flies" was a freaky movie
23:23:50 <kmc> "In Colorado, we don't need some New York billionaire telling us what size soft drinks we can have, how much salt to put on our food, or the size of the ammunition magazines on our guns"
23:23:54 <kmc> america.gif
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23:39:54 <Bike> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/nsa_surveillance_the_rest_of_the_snowden_files_should_be_destroyed.html bahahaha
23:40:11 <Bike> «The U.S. administration “has long been trying to play innocent victim of cyberattacks” but now turned out to be “the biggest villain,” said Xinhua, the state-run news agency. This argument, of course, is hypocrisy.» WOW HOW NOVEL
23:40:46 <Bike> «Finally, and perhaps most significantly, American and British Internet and telecommunication companies are under economic pressure, set to lose disgruntled customers at home and large contracts abroad.» somebody think of the megacorps
23:40:54 <Sgeo> http://slashdot.org/topic/bi/the-windows-flaw-that-cracks-amazon-web-services/
23:41:02 <Sgeo> [spoiler: The flaw is physical access]
23:41:21 <ais523> it's not, the flaw is access to read and write to the entire volume on which the filesystem is sitting
23:41:35 <ais523> which is not physical access but is just as clearly capable of compromising a system
23:41:56 <Sgeo> How do you get that access without physical access?
23:42:19 <ais523> by asking to download a copy, or to upload a copy back again
23:42:37 <ais523> which is a perfectly normal operation to do when transferring the filesystem from one system to another
23:42:52 <elliott> surely the article tells you?
23:43:13 <ais523> elliott: no, from what I gathered from the comments, the article is all talking about how insecure it all is
23:43:27 <ais523> without noticing that unlimited read/write access has a tendency to let you make arbitrary changes to something
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23:44:54 <elliott> sounds pretty slashdotty :P
23:45:31 <Sgeo> If 'blame Windows' is Slashdotty, then yes
23:45:49 <ais523> Sgeo: 'blame X' is Slashdotty for any OS X with market share >= BSD's
23:45:53 <ais523> (including mobile OSes)
23:53:24 <ais523> Phantom__Hoover: it's a famously poor choice of variable
23:53:31 <ais523> because it's also a windowing system
23:53:40 <ais523> but I didn't notice the accidental pun until you pointed it out
23:53:48 <ais523> I actually had to call something upsilon recently
23:54:00 <ais523> /really/ on the verge of running out of letters :(
23:54:10 <ais523> (I wanted to call something omicron just to see if I could, but LaTeX wouldn't let me)