00:18:15 <copumpkin> genuinely curious how people explain things like that
00:18:25 <Bike> boredom or libertarianism
00:18:26 <copumpkin> I have plenty of explanations I'd propose, but am still wondering
00:20:16 <kmc> is the question "why do libertarians tend to be well-off white dudes" cause I don't think that one is very difficult to explain
00:23:27 <kmc> what do you think of futarchy, copumpkin
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00:25:00 <Bike> nah, it's something something prediction markets
00:25:18 <copumpkin> let me try to put my finger on a concern though, or read more and find it's handled :P
00:26:59 <Bike> http://fabiensanglard.net/rayTracing_back_of_business_card/ wat
00:27:26 <kmc> instead of voting on policies, you vote to determine a social utility function, and then use prediction markets to pursue policies which maximize that utility function
00:27:37 <kmc> I don't know much more than that summary, but it's a cool idea anyway
00:29:04 <Bike> what's the point of a business card you can't read!
00:29:13 <kmc> it's cool 'cause it uses the ability of markets to optimize stuff, but without the libertarian assumption that what markets optimize 'by default' is fair or good
00:29:42 <copumpkin> my concern is that it isn't just gov't that could affect the things being bet on
00:29:52 <copumpkin> it could create perverse private incentives to make programs fail
00:30:31 <Bike> this page calls typedef "define" and a struct a class. okay, then
00:31:11 <Bike> hah, !v for normalization
00:31:55 <kmc> Bike: well struct and class are nearly the same in C++
00:32:19 <kmc> the only difference is that structs have public visibility by default, while class has private visibility
00:32:31 <Bike> oh, i didn't think you could have inheritance with structs
00:32:40 <kmc> presumably the author used 'struct{' because it's shorter than 'class{public:'
00:32:52 <kmc> nope, you can do all the same things
00:33:55 <kmc> copumpkin: true
00:34:58 <pikhq> Bike: This also means that class{public: ... } is just a struct. :)
00:35:19 <pikhq> Assuming no methods.
00:36:00 <kmc> C++ has this separate concept of "Plain Old Data" for things that are like C structs, but they can still have (non-virtual) methods
00:36:56 <kmc> arguably a lot of C structs are not Plain Old Data either, it's just that the language provides no way to express this
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00:39:25 <kmc> for example you might say that it should be safe and reasonable to clone a POD object with a simple memcpy(), which does not hold for many C structs
00:40:00 <kmc> I don't know if that's part of the generally used definitions of POD, though
00:40:48 <kmc> Bike: say your struct contains a pointer to a reference-counted object
00:41:02 <kmc> you need to increment the refcount when you copy the struct and hence the pointer
00:42:09 <kmc> in C++ you would express this by using a smart pointer (like std::shared_ptr) for the field, which will make the struct non-POD
00:42:15 <Bike> oh, so like, semantics
00:42:31 <kmc> the neat thing is that the default constructor and destructor in C++ will still do the right thing
00:42:41 <Bike> for some reason i thought not being able to memcpy at all
00:43:47 <Bike> because i am bad at c++
00:44:04 <kmc> C++ is so cool
00:45:14 <kmc> it's ugly and archaic and it's complex to the point of being nearly unusable, but everything does fit together and exist for a reason
00:45:25 <pikhq> It's my favorite esolang.
00:45:35 <kmc> (did you get that meme from me?)
00:45:39 <copumpkin> kmc: money is just too powerful! :P
00:45:51 <pikhq> (probably, but the sentiment was just too good to leave to one man)
00:46:16 <kmc> memes want to spread
00:46:53 <kmc> I might try to design an esolang with region pointers, once I learn how the hell they work
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00:47:15 <Bike> region pointers?
00:47:53 <kmc> Rust's "borrowed pointers" have a "region" or "lifetime" attached which says how long the pointer is guaranteed to remain valid
00:48:00 <kmc> it's part of the type
00:48:20 <kmc> usually inferred, but you can name them if you want, which means you can return these things as well as take them as arguments
00:49:03 <kmc> struct Foo { x: int } fn f<'t>(foo: &'t Foo) -> &'t int { &foo.x }
00:49:16 <kmc> takes a pointer to a Foo, returns a pointer to the int inside, which is valid as long as the original pointer was
00:49:46 <Bike> i think i'm with you re: not knowing how the hell they work
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00:50:39 <kmc> and since they're like type parameters you can also parametrize data over them, e.g. to make a vector iterator which is parametrized over how long the original vector lives
00:52:34 <myname> sounds pretty serious for an esolang, though
00:53:03 <kmc> in Rust they also track mutability; if you have a borrowed pointer of the immutable sort, you know that nobody else can mutate the object while you're using it through that pointer
00:53:33 <kmc> the aliasing rules are strict enough to guarantee that
00:54:13 <kmc> and so if you borrow a mutable thing as immutable, the compiler will "freeze" it for the duration of the borrow, which is a static typechecker thing except for garbage-collected stuff, which needs to be frozen dynamically
00:54:54 <kmc> myname: well it might be an esolang or it might just be a toy language for my understanding
00:55:02 <kmc> depending on whether it can be made interestingly perverse
00:55:13 <pikhq> Region-C or Region-fuck.
00:55:18 <kmc> for example what if the only data you have is region pointers, and you need to do basic arithmetic using regions somehow
00:55:28 <kmc> I don't know enough about it to say whether that is a coherent idea
00:55:33 <myname> kmc: how do you distinguish between eso and toy?
00:56:02 <kmc> esolangs are designed to be interestingly weird and difficult to use
00:56:28 <kmc> I don't consider Brainfuck to be a "true esolang" because although it's very minimal, and hard to use for that reason, the concepts it uses are straightforward and familiar
00:56:41 <kmc> and it was designed not to be difficult but to have a very simple compiler
00:57:08 <elliott> that definition of esolang is way too restrictive IMO
00:57:10 <Bike> J isn't supposed to be difficult to use.
00:57:39 <Bike> I wonder if APL counts as weird in context. I mean, A Programming Language didn't have a whole lot of competition.
00:57:47 <pikhq> Not to mention, Brainfuck is fairly easy to target.
00:58:45 <Bike> Maybe I should write an article on the wiki on Chaitin's "lisp-with-apl-character-set" bullshit and that can be my first article.
00:59:11 <Bike> I guess the whole compiling to diophantine equations thing is pretty esoteric.
01:01:12 <myname> why should anybody wants to ADD apl character set to something?
01:01:32 <Bike> It's not added. There aren't alphanumeric characters. Or multi-character identifiers.
01:01:40 <Bike> (hope this helps)
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01:02:27 <Sgeo_> I should rewatch the ending of season two of ATLA
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01:16:11 <kmc> whats that
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01:59:48 <myname> that right one looks like he got a boner
01:59:57 <myndzi> he's raising his dongers
02:00:39 <myndzi> lots of people on efnet used to hate on me because they thought i was you btw. just sayin :)
02:01:09 <myname> must be one of the nets with another myname
02:01:09 <myndzi> ah, must be a different person with the same nick then
02:01:28 <myname> i am surprised i got it here tbh
02:01:40 <myndzi> the other myname was a script kiddie, at least at one point
02:02:34 <Phantom_Hoover> hackego has been kicked for now, but you know the one i mean
02:02:34 <myndzi> myname: either way, this is gonna get confusing, hahaha
02:02:45 <myndzi> i don't know what was bound to `?
02:03:42 <myndzi> er, you mean the whole script? or just that smiley
02:11:25 <Phantom_Hoover> because it triggers whenever hackego turns up a blank in the wisdom db, and triples the line count
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02:20:54 <myndzi> that sounds like a hackego problem to me :P i can block that line or something if you like
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02:23:13 <myndzi> i don't know what hackego is supposed to do in most cases :P
02:24:13 <myndzi> you can make any line ignored by leading it with ^k69^o
02:25:30 <myndzi> actually, anywhere in the line now. should be simple enough to tack on the end or something for specific cases
02:26:36 <kmc> isn't the typical solution to block HackEgo from your bot
02:26:53 <myndzi> i would, but people store things in it that are intended to trigger my thing too
02:27:09 <myndzi> the ignore thing was already there, i use it for other stuff
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02:30:06 <myndzi> well my solutions are: ignore hackego entirely (undesirable), disable that specific smiley (undesirable), write code to ignore that specific line (undesirable), disable entirely (undesirable)
02:30:26 <myndzi> compared with essentially saying 'i explicitly don't want this particular smiley to trigger the thing'
02:30:47 <Gregor> The first is desirable.
02:31:00 <Gregor> And if anybody WANTS your bot to respond to HackEgo, it is THEY who are undesirable.
02:31:09 <myndzi> i was thinking about things like `celebrate
02:31:32 <Gregor> I stand by my previous statement.
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02:59:02 * kmc fights the urge to pick fights with Haskell zealots on Twitter, which is still more sensible than copumpkin picking fights with libertarians
02:59:38 * copumpkin doesn't really get kmc's anti-haskell-community revelation
03:00:00 <copumpkin> there are zealots but just avoid them and take all the good, smart people who spend all their time learning about cool new stuff
03:00:14 <kmc> well I found it very hard to avoid them in #haskell
03:00:33 <kmc> maybe there are other outposts of "Haskell community" which are better
03:01:03 <kmc> I realize it's actually #haskell-edwardk
03:01:05 <copumpkin> but has ended up being just a friendly place to talk about cool stuff
03:01:09 <kmc> I did join a while back
03:01:15 <kmc> but left when my client restarted or something ;P
03:01:21 <copumpkin> he hasn't been around much recently
03:01:35 <kmc> my specific complaint lately is "Rust doesn't have higher-order polymorphism? well it must be shit and I will repeat that opinion forever without bothering to learn anything else about it"
03:01:42 <kmc> I dunno if I would get that attitude in -lens or not
03:01:58 <copumpkin> I doubt it, but shachaf is around more than I am
03:02:09 <kmc> not that I don't want higher-order polymorphism in Rust...
03:02:34 <copumpkin> most of the haskellers I respect have stated that they find rust interesting and would probably use it for systems code
03:02:42 <copumpkin> the others haven't said anything much about it :P
03:03:06 <copumpkin> keep in mind that there's about 1 person in that group, and that's me
03:03:29 <kmc> it would be cool if some of the many Haskell libraries that include C code could switch to Rust
03:03:44 <copumpkin> we'd just need some support in cabal for building rust code
03:03:44 <kmc> and it would be cool to have a high level FFI between the languages, e.g. something which preserves algebraic types and memory management
03:04:06 <kmc> it's something I'd vaguely like to work on, but I'm probably too lazy to do anything more than a proof of concept
03:04:11 <Bike> how many high level FFIs even exist?
03:04:12 <kmc> rustc is such a moving target too
03:04:20 <copumpkin> do they have a fixed calling convention?
03:04:22 <kmc> it may not be worth Cabal trying to sync up with it at present
03:04:28 <kmc> we're only just getting rustpkg off the ground
03:04:52 <kmc> I don't know how fixed the Rust calling convention is, but you can also call in and out of Rust with the C calling convention
03:05:14 <kmc> and Rust structs are defined to be C compatible
03:05:20 <Bike> so in unrelated news, i just learned a proper use of subgraph isomorphis. gotta get cracking on that eodermdrome interpreter now.
03:05:32 <kmc> so there's no need for C glue or "find the offset of everything" preprocessors a la hsc2hs
03:05:46 <kmc> no I'm working on Servo, which is the ~only big project in Rust besides rustc itself
03:06:34 <Bike> "or put another way, there are already eodermdrome interpreters running in the chemistry department"
03:06:45 <kmc> so which application is this?
03:07:22 <kmc> Bike: well RPC mechanisms which allow nested key-value structures as values are pretty common
03:07:23 <Bike> big molecules are, unsurprisingly, represented as graphs. chemists sometimes want to search for submolecules.
03:07:27 <kmc> you could consider that a high level FFI
03:07:59 <Bike> wikipedia says it's a "common misconception" that it just does regex search on a linearized form, though. i shudder for chemoinformaticians
03:11:57 <kmc> copumpkin: writing rustc in Rust is kind of questionable... on the other hand, writing the Rust runtime system in Rust is fucking awesome
03:12:32 <kmc> a new web layout / rendering engine with an emphasis on parallelism
03:12:41 <kmc> https://github.com/mozilla/servo
03:14:41 <kmc> also an emphasis on security through memory safety, eventually, but it's kind of a joke to claim that at the moment
03:14:55 <kmc> since we use C libraries for a bunch of stuff, and lots of unsafe Rust code for various other reasons
03:15:34 <copumpkin> what part of servo do you work on?
03:15:53 <kmc> whatever needs doing; it's a small team
03:16:26 <kmc> actually most of the commits to date are from Rust people; having a separate team for Servo is a new thing
03:16:29 <copumpkin> so do you have a full html parser in rust?
03:16:30 <kmc> of course we still work together closely
03:16:38 <kmc> no, that's one of the things we're using a C library for at present
03:17:08 <kmc> HTML / CSS parsing, image decoding, JavaScript are all in C
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03:17:28 <kmc> we would like for it to all be Rust but the priority varies by component
03:17:46 <kmc> for example we'd like to replace the CSS parser soon because it performs poorly (or rather, the CSS selector matching part of the library does)
03:18:03 <kmc> and we'd like to replace image decoding soonish for security + robustness
03:18:20 <kmc> (if an image decode fails within Rust code, we can easily catch that with the usual Rust task failure mechanisms and recover)
03:18:21 <elliott> what HTML parser do you use?
03:18:39 <elliott> I started working on Haskell bindings to hubbub years ago. I forget why. I gave up.
03:18:49 <kmc> it's doubtful that we will ever replace SpiderMonkey with a production quality JavaScript engine in Rust
03:19:15 <kmc> cause that's an incredible amount of work, plus the security benefits are murkier
03:21:21 <kmc> we need to do something about the fact that new versions of SpiderMonkey have only a C++ API and not a C API :(
03:23:36 <kmc> Rust more than most languages could support a "first-class" C++ FFI, but it would still be a huge pain
03:24:15 <Fiora> what makes an FFI "first-class"?
03:25:15 <kmc> well in this case I mean that we can map many C++ features to directly analogous Rust features, while most languages can't because they don't have any analogous feature
03:26:01 <kmc> like if your C++ API uses RAII then it's hard to map it directly to most languages, but plausible that we could do this for Rust
03:26:13 <Fiora> does the C++ spidermonkey API use C++y features?
03:26:24 <kmc> I'm told it does use RAII at least; I haven't looked into it
03:26:29 <Sgeo_> RAII is running code when a variable goes out of scope?
03:26:39 <kmc> but it sounds like our job would be harder than just "auto-generate an extern "C" for each of these prototypes"
03:26:58 <Sgeo_> Erm, hmm, guess not
03:27:11 <Fiora> does it use exceptions? like. what happens if initialization fails
03:27:19 <kmc> Sgeo_: the RAII idea is implemented by running code when an object is destroyed (which could happen by a variable going out of scope, yes)
03:27:22 <Sgeo_> All I'm thinking is that in Tcl, you can have code run when a variable is unset, which includes if it goes out of scope
03:28:21 <kmc> Sgeo_: the core idea is that having some object represents that you've acquired some resource (e.g. opened a file or taken a lock)
03:28:47 <kmc> Mutex m; { Lock l = m.lock(); ... }
03:29:03 <kmc> you don't need to call any unlock() method because it will happen automatically when you leave that scope, even if you leave due to an exception
03:29:27 <kmc> (or by invoking 'return' deep inside some branching control flow)
03:29:53 <kmc> so in this instance it's similar to Python's 'with' statement and other stuff in a lot of languages
03:30:29 <kmc> but it's more general because the object representing the acquired resource doesn't *have to* live on the stack with lifetime synced to a single function call
03:30:48 <kmc> you can put that Lock in a heap allocated object
03:31:00 <Sgeo_> Should be doable in Tcl I think. And Tcl doesn't have automatic GC, although with most OO systems for Tcl including TclOO, you can specify destructors
03:31:16 <kmc> or if you want to refcount the retention of the lock, put it in a std::shared_ptr
03:31:20 <Sgeo_> Actually, by 'most' I mean, I'm only certain about TclOO
03:31:28 <kmc> how does Tcl free storage if not GC?
03:31:40 <pikhq> Reference counting.
03:31:44 <Sgeo_> Well, strings are GCed, sorry about that
03:31:49 <Sgeo_> Or, well, reference counted.
03:31:55 <pikhq> Tcl's native value type, being strings, cannot be circularly referenced.
03:31:58 <Sgeo_> But anything mutable (variables, namespaces) aren't GCed
03:32:44 <Sgeo_> Oh, and strings are immutable
03:33:17 <kmc> yeah, it might be possible to map RAII nicely into refcounted systems with destructors
03:33:22 <kmc> I haven't thought about it
03:34:05 <Bike> a lot of gc'd systems provide some kind of hook to call when something is destroyed
03:34:16 <Bike> kind of a bad idea to use it for raii, though
03:34:18 <kmc> yeah but if it's true GC, that doesn't happen at any particular time
03:34:36 <Bike> plus it might just not happen at all sooooo
03:35:01 <Sgeo_> "Note that destructors are not called in all situations (e.g. if the interpreter is destroyed)"
03:35:56 <Sgeo_> I should note that in Tcl, 'interpreter' is not synonymous with 'running program'
03:36:05 <Sgeo_> So it's not as lolzy as it sounds
03:36:11 <Bike> is it still something sigkillable
03:36:27 <Sgeo_> A Tcl program can invoke sub-interpreters
03:36:54 <Sgeo_> I think that's how Tcl does threads
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03:57:19 <zzo38> I am curious to know, how many Wiccans hate daylight saving time compared to Roman Catholics?
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04:03:38 <Bike> i want to frame you
04:06:37 <Bike> wrong sense of "frame"
04:07:30 <zzo38> It doesn't matter what sense, it doesn't answer, what?
04:07:56 <Bike> in this sense "for" is meaningless.
04:08:20 <zzo38> Well, why do you want to?
04:08:38 <Bike> because that's a great question.
04:10:49 <zzo38> But yours isn't a very good question.
04:39:23 <zzo38> Numerology stuff is as silly as, if you had a computer program that calculates the MD5 hash of the current date/time and treats it as a machine code address and jumps to it. Isn't it?
04:40:39 <zzo38> (Maybe this comparison can even be used to make a idea to make a esolang)
04:44:47 <zzo38> Do you have a better kind of comparison (if there is one)?
04:45:52 <Bike> i don't need a comparison because one time i saw a book about how santa was satan and was going to end the world, and it wasn't a joke
04:46:46 <zzo38> Yes some people do stupid things like that
04:53:42 <zzo38> It is certainly stupid but it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with numerology.
04:55:52 <Bike> Oh it was all based on numerology. s+a+n+t+a added up to 666 or whatever.
04:56:32 <zzo38> Well, of course anagrams do too, then.
04:57:18 <zzo38> (Although, so can things other than anagrams. Anagrams are one class of words that do.)
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05:03:04 <zzo38> These and other divinations can be described by two things: artificial correspondences, and the improper use of these correspondences.
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05:56:17 <Sgeo_> "Be careful with this message. Similar messages were used to steal people's personal information. Unless you trust the sender, don't click links or reply with personal information. "
05:56:27 <Sgeo_> But I trust FedEx *sends personal info*
05:56:35 <Sgeo_> Maybe that message should be reworded?
05:59:03 <olsner> or maybe you shouldn't have sent them personal info :)
05:59:16 <olsner> mostly that would depend on whether it really was fedex or not
06:02:21 <zzo38> If you need the service from FedEx, then ignore the message and send it to FedEx using the telephone book or whatever instead of that message perhaps.
06:02:47 <zzo38> If you do not need the service from FedEx, then ignore the message and don't send your personal info.
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06:39:59 <zzo38> Why do I sometimes get error about IRQ not less or equal?
06:40:12 <zzo38> What does sdIv:;aL{l*h?[?Q4-xiYf9QSi3U&7edDCVZ3z<t mean?
06:42:13 <zzo38> Well, I will sleep now anyways.
06:42:34 <olsner> the IRQ less or equal error is a symptom of bad RAM, usually (it would be interesting to learn why it causes some assert about an IRQ to fail though)
06:42:46 <zzo38> While I am writing now (after the crash), all these four lines starting with "W"; do you know that?
06:43:08 <zzo38> olsner: I used the RAM test program and it says the RAM is OK.
06:44:01 <olsner> hmm, I'm out of prepackaged answers then... maybe it's just a bug of some kind
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07:03:19 <fizzie> @tell Buggy drivers, sometimes. The "official" answer is at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms854226.aspx
07:04:36 <fizzie> olsner: See above; IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL is the (very self-explanatory, I'm sure) error message you get on generic memory access violations in kernel mode, more or less.
07:06:39 <fizzie> (The number it's checking is not exactly an "IRQ" number but a sort of a privilege level: http://mikemstech.blogspot.se/2011/11/how-to-troubleshoot-blue-screen-0xa.html lists them.)
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10:53:35 <Koen> do we have a language where the only data structure is an unbounded integer accumulator? but with sufficiently arithmetic operations to make it turing-complete
10:56:22 <Koen> though I guess if you give it too many arithmetic instructions it becomes too easy, as you can make a simple stack of "digits" in base B with push x ::= (acc = acc * B + x), drop = (acc = acc / B) and pop = (acc % B)
10:57:42 <Koen> not sure how to make a deque though; in order to access the top digit you need a way to store (or compute) the number of digits
11:07:06 <lifthrasiir> Koen: a "single" unbounded integer accumulator?
11:07:31 <lifthrasiir> if you meant two or more (but the fixed number of) accumulators, there it is: http://esolangs.org/wiki/NULL
11:07:41 <Taneb> Koen, Fractran's pretty close
11:08:04 <Koen> lifthrasiir: well if you got two that's close to a minsky machine right?
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11:33:33 <oerjan> what do you mean i never hug real people.
11:39:54 <oerjan> @tell myndzi fortunately ^celebrate is on fungot, not HackEgo
11:39:55 <fungot> oerjan: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus!
11:41:27 <oerjan> fungot: what can you say about sword stopping
11:41:27 <fungot> oerjan: but cyrus! are you leaving! ayla like crono! what should we do?! robo, don't waste your time. alfador only likes you, crono!
11:41:44 <oerjan> fungot: that doesn't seem very relevant to swords.
11:41:44 <fungot> oerjan: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!
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11:42:56 <fizzie> fungot: You're all about tricycles.
11:42:56 <fungot> fizzie: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place...
11:43:09 <fizzie> This thing is really repetitive.
11:43:27 <fizzie> I had a good idea for a fungot dataset except it was something in Finnish.
11:43:27 <fungot> fizzie: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos.
11:43:43 <oerjan> istr someone suggested finnish already.
11:43:45 <Taneb> oerjan, I hope your back pain lessens
11:43:57 <oerjan> Taneb: well i just took some pain killers.
11:43:59 <fizzie> Yes, but it was some specific Finnish thing. I forget what it was exactly.
11:45:03 <fizzie> I think it was something from the Institute.
11:45:24 <oerjan> then fungot could be all highbrow and only the finns would understand it.
11:45:24 <fungot> oerjan: the masamune!? noooo!!! ha!
11:45:35 <fizzie> (The "Institute for the Languages of Finland"; we're helping them with some audio things.)
11:45:43 <fizzie> fungot: There, that's a sword.
11:45:44 <fungot> fizzie: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!!
11:46:57 <oerjan> fungot: what about trying excalibur instead.
11:46:58 <fungot> oerjan: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
11:47:33 <fizzie> They have a 1456658-word corpus of Finnish classics from 1880s to 1930s, that would be a highbrow Finnish thing to do.
11:47:46 <fizzie> But I don't really think so, there's books enough in it already.
12:02:00 <oerjan> apparently there's still an official head of the tokugawa clan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Tsunenari
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12:56:19 <fizzie> Grumble frubmle Praat does not play audio.
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12:59:54 <boily> good it-happened morning!
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13:34:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/
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13:35:45 <boily> @tell Phantom_Hoover e2 to e4???
13:35:54 <boily> right. lambdabot is dead.
13:39:17 <boily> by the way, what happened to the topic?
13:40:07 <fizzie> It broke down under the load.
13:46:06 <boily> it was indeed getting pretty long and vetust.
13:47:04 <oerjan> boily: psst it's a pun on "pawn"
13:48:20 <boily> you and your non-rhotic English dialects...
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14:06:50 <oerjan> `addquote <zzo38> I am curious to know, how many Wiccans hate daylight saving time compared to Roman Catholics?
14:06:55 <HackEgo> 1108) <zzo38> I am curious to know, how many Wiccans hate daylight saving time compared to Roman Catholics?
14:07:02 <oerjan> someone requested a framing.
14:09:30 <boily> the quote is added, the PDF updated, the yerba mate dranked, but what has DST got to do with Wicca?
14:10:54 <oerjan> that is all part of the zzo38 mystery
14:11:00 <HackEgo> 367) <oerjan> as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw <zzo38> quintopia: I am at Canada.
14:11:26 <oerjan> hm did i actually put a double space when i said that?
14:11:28 -!- boily has set topic: Topic undergoing maintenance | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
14:11:43 <oerjan> `pastelogs I am at Canada
14:12:09 <boily> probably a manifestation of QILDSR.
14:12:20 <boily> (Quote Inter-Locutor Double-Spacing Reflex)
14:12:36 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24462
14:13:23 <oerjan> `run sed -i '367s/ </ </' quotes
14:13:33 <HackEgo> 367) <oerjan> as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw <zzo38> quintopia: I am at Canada.
14:13:57 <boily> spurrious mimic evolutionary double spacing, which means I probably misformated the quote...
14:17:02 <oerjan> <quintopia> anyone who sees that in the future will think it is two quotes
14:17:25 <oerjan> @tell quintopia <quintopia> anyone who sees that in the future will think it is two quotes <-- WOW YOU WERE PSYCHIC
14:18:13 <oerjan> we may have a bot absense number constancy situation.
14:18:50 <boily> fungot: do you know where lambdie went?
14:18:50 <fungot> boily: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca
14:18:59 <oerjan> <oerjan> and then they will try to correct the spacing, and we must undo it
14:19:46 <boily> who do I complain to if I want lambdabot back?
14:20:21 <boily> elliott: ↑ LAMBDABOT! NOW! please :)
14:21:21 <oerjan> i must regretfully point out that elliott has been idle for 8 hours. although may mean he'll wake up about now.
14:22:23 <boily> @localtime elliott
14:23:56 <boily> elliott is in the UK, which uses DST, so he's on UTC+0100, which is 5 hours later than here, so it's around 3:22pm there.
14:25:23 <oerjan> you appear to be making the mistake of assuming sane sleeping schedules for #esoteric regulars.
14:26:04 <Roujo> boily: おはよう！ I managed to red that!|
14:26:12 <Roujo> Also, yes, it happened! =D
14:27:11 <boily> oerjan: well. I know for a fact that Taneb has sleep issues, and that my own schedule is sane, so with that population sample it's 50/50 either way with elliott.
14:27:53 <boily> Roujo: seems the Universe didn't collapse...
14:28:23 <Roujo> boily: Not so far, anyway. Which is good.
14:31:56 <oerjan> boily: hm this quote change happened at around the time i did a major formatting check on the quotes, so it quite possibly was my fault.
14:33:10 <boily> oerjan: the end result was inconsequential. I happen to have read the quote, and having that dangling verb there made no sense, so I figured it was a single quote.
14:33:26 <oerjan> indeed it was my fault.
14:33:29 <boily> otoh, I did have parsing trouble with the django shenanigans.
14:33:32 * oerjan swats himself -----###
14:33:39 <boily> oh... that's a first!
14:33:50 <oerjan> boily: that's incredibly intentional.
14:34:16 <boily> Roujo: infâme et odieux personnage que tu es! how dare you earworm me on a Monday Morning!
14:34:39 <Roujo> boily: There you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puHyO5JNOE0
14:34:41 <boily> oerjan: it... happened before? fascinating.
14:34:52 <boily> Roujo: won't click.
14:35:00 <Roujo> It's a remix, really
14:35:07 <Roujo> Well, more of a mashup, I guess
14:35:08 <boily> (at least for the next hour. I'm einstein on the beaching my ears)
14:36:35 <oerjan> boily: i've been stupid before, you know.
14:37:23 <boily> `pastelogs swats himself
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14:37:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.600
14:39:17 <boily> `pastelogs swats herself
14:39:23 <oerjan> there's even a pre-lengthening one.
14:39:36 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19841
14:40:23 <boily> and, on top of that, only male self-swatting.
14:40:45 <Roujo> There's something to be said about that somewhere, but I can't figure out what
14:41:10 <oerjan> i think that can be explained by the fact we rarely have more than one active female in the channel.
14:41:26 <boily> “it's not the length of the swat that counts...”
14:43:47 <Taneb> boily, I have sleep issues?
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14:44:39 <oerjan> hm the updog must be defective.
14:44:45 <boily> Taneb: iircbpn, you talked about that stuff some months ago.
14:44:53 <boily> (iirc but probably not)
14:45:07 <metasepia> Software description: a command line tool for getting weather forecasts - written in Ruby (Ruby).
14:45:30 <oerjan> metasepia: you appear to be confusing updog with yourself
14:45:37 <boily> glad to know that Ruby needs to be explained by itself.
14:45:51 <oerjan> also, ruby with haskell.
14:46:01 <oerjan> updog: or do you actually do weather forecasts?
14:46:34 <Taneb> boily, I think I just have a tendency to nap
14:46:43 <Taneb> And I'm not good at lie-ins
14:46:47 <oerjan> elliott: wait does that mean you're awake now.
14:47:17 <boily> oerjan: this updog is connected from somewhere around Buffaly, NY.
14:48:27 <oerjan> boily: hm... i guess it isn't elliott, i don't think he'd bother with strange ip's.
14:49:05 <oerjan> who are the new yorkers in the channel that haven't relocated to san francisco.
14:49:45 <HackEgo> No one was ever called Elliot.
14:49:52 <Fiora> elliott is also aslep.
14:50:06 <oerjan> Fiora: well he might be waking up about now.
14:50:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: Waiting for elliott | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
14:50:59 <Taneb> If it helps I could cause a large explosion
14:51:38 <Roujo> `run echo "c.f. elliott" > wisdom/godot
14:51:51 <boily> as recorded in the File, people from the East Coast are: jsvine, ...
14:51:57 <boily> well. seems to be the only one.
14:52:04 <Roujo> `run echo "cf. elliott" > wisdom/godot
14:52:31 <boily> oerjan: so yeah. quintopia is the Most Probable Updogger.
14:52:56 <oerjan> always with the laughing matter that one
14:53:59 <oerjan> <Taneb> If it helps I could cause a large explosion <-- i'd like you to link afterward to the hexham newspaper where you explain why you did it.
14:54:38 <boily> Taneb: could you cause a pretty explosion, instead of a large one?
14:54:51 <oerjan> boily: but that might not wake up elliott!
14:55:28 <Roujo> Last I saw elliott, he made a mermaid out of me
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14:56:04 <boily> Roujo: what exactly happened yesterday? were you connected and active on the Chännel during a Weekend?
14:56:21 <Taneb> Roujo, I think that was me
14:56:23 <Roujo> boily: I'm always connected.
14:56:36 <Roujo> Taneb: Well, elliott turned me into a mermaid, you just made me realize it
14:57:13 <quintopia> boily: did you send things to gorham
14:57:50 <boily> quintopia: no, I was busy with either my SO, or visiting Lachine at night and doing unspeakable things with another Unnämed Channel Member.
14:58:09 <boily> quintopia: mind you, the cookies are bought, I just need to go to the post office.
14:58:47 <boily> I'm getting late... :(
14:58:51 <quintopia> you'll have to send to andover, me now
14:59:15 <boily> oerjan: can you lend me your swatter, so that I can undergo penience for my sins?
14:59:29 <Roujo> Lachine is best Chine
14:59:35 <boily> quintopia: oh well. can you send me your new coördinates?
14:59:54 <quintopia> oerjan: swat boily for too much diaeresis
14:59:57 <Roujo> >doing unspeakable things with another Unnämed Channel Member
15:00:06 <oerjan> <fizzie> @tell Buggy drivers, sometimes. The "official" answer is at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms854226.aspx <-- i don't think Buggy will understand that message.
15:00:34 <Roujo> boily: Don't start any rumors now >_>
15:00:59 <boily> Roujo: bin voyons dont. voir si je suis pour partir des rumeurs :D
15:01:40 * oerjan helpfullÿ swäts boily -----###
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15:03:35 <oerjan> hm it seems not to mean what i thought it meant.
15:06:02 <quintopia> boily: david rutter/general delivery/andover, me 04216
15:10:51 <oerjan> @tell Koen there's also the single-register machine described at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Minsky_machine
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15:39:30 <Roujo> Wait, did I mess that up?
15:39:58 <Roujo> @tell oerjan lambdabot is back. hth
15:40:07 <metasepia> CYUL 231500Z 30010KT 15SM BKN031 11/04 A3004 RMK CU6 SLP175
15:40:07 <metasepia> EGNT 231520Z 11006KT 080V190 9999 FEW019 20/14 Q1022
15:41:53 <Taneb> Which one of those is the temperature
15:43:45 <Roujo> Why would you want the temperature?
15:44:27 <Taneb> I think it's 20/14
15:45:32 <Roujo> That would make sense, yeah
15:45:43 <Roujo> It *is* cold-ish out there
15:45:49 * Roujo gazes out the window
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16:10:50 <Koen> oerjan: yeah but that's not turing-complete is it
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16:56:19 <metasepia> EFHK 231650Z 02010KT 9999 -SHRA FEW011 BKN014 10/08 Q1001 BECMG SCT014 BKN030
16:57:04 <fizzie> "BECMG" -- for people who can't afford vowels.
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17:17:38 <boily> back from lunch, and it's -SHRAing in Helsinki.
17:26:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
17:27:12 <fizzie> boily: It's raining in Shanghai. (Disclaimer: it might not, this is a reference.)
17:27:27 <metasepia> ZSSS 231700Z 15004MPS 9999 FEW013 26/23 Q1011 NOSIG
17:27:39 <boily> fizzie: sadly not. this is not a reference. hth.
17:27:58 <metasepia> mps definition: meters per second.
17:28:15 <fizzie> Well, the local weather forecast says it will rain on Wednesday, that's close enough.
17:28:16 <boily> I'd much prefer for it to be Miles per Second. more dramatic, imho.
17:30:59 <boily> megaluns per second!
17:32:06 <Roujo> MegaParsecs/Second
17:32:09 <fizzie> `frink 4 miles/second -> km/hour
17:32:16 <HackEgo> 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536)
17:32:37 <fizzie> In related news, Frink's interpretation of "km/h" was kind of curious.
17:32:40 <fizzie> `frink 4 miles/second -> km/h
17:32:48 <HackEgo> Conformance error \ Left side is: 804672/125 (exactly 6437.376) m s^-1 (velocity) \ Right side is: 1.5091904506831453200e+36 m^-1 s kg^-1 (unknown unit type) \ Suggestion: divide left side by energy \ \ For help, type: units[energy] \ to list known units with these dimensions.
17:33:07 <kmc> kilometers per henry?
17:33:15 <boily> speaking of curious things, I had that Most Wonderful Cola during lunch.
17:33:23 <Roujo> boily: The dead one?
17:33:37 <boily> Roujo: I don't drink dead cola.
17:33:47 <fizzie> I guess that would match the henry, right.
17:33:48 <Roujo> So you drink alive cola, then?
17:33:52 <boily> `frink 4 megaparsec/second -> km/hour
17:33:59 <boily> Roujo: of course. only the freshest.
17:34:19 <HackEgo> 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536)
17:34:34 <fizzie> `frink 4 mi/s -> km/hr
17:34:42 <HackEgo> 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536)
17:34:48 <Roujo> `frink 5 megalightyear/milisecond -> km/hr
17:34:49 <boily> are you golfing unit converstion? you freaks.
17:34:57 <HackEgo> Warning: undefined symbol "milisecond". \ Warning: undefined symbol "milisecond". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 47303652362904000000000 m (length) milisecond (undefined symbol)^-1 -> 5/18 (approx. 0.2777777777777778) m s^-1 (velocity)
17:35:03 <Roujo> `frink 5 megalightyear/millisecond -> km/hr
17:35:12 <HackEgo> 170293148506454400000000000
17:35:26 <Roujo> Somehow that sounds wrong
17:36:03 <Gregor> `frink 1 lightyear/year -> km/hr
17:36:29 <Gregor> Why did it use scientific notation for this but not for that >_>
17:36:57 <Roujo> `frink 4 mi/s -> km/h
17:37:05 <HackEgo> Conformance error \ Left side is: 804672/125 (exactly 6437.376) m s^-1 (velocity) \ Right side is: 1.5091904506831453200e+36 m^-1 s kg^-1 (unknown unit type) \ Suggestion: divide left side by energy \ \ For help, type: units[energy] \ to list known units with these dimensions.
17:37:11 <boily> Gregor: because 170293148506454400000000000 is the Not Quite Exactly Number of the Beast.
17:37:14 <Roujo> `frink 4 m/s -> km/hr
17:37:16 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/frink: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `exactly' \ /hackenv/bin/frink: line 1: `14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536)'
17:38:11 <Roujo> `frink 4 mi/s -> km/hr
17:38:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec /hackenv/lib/frink -e "$@"
17:38:19 <HackEgo> 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536)
17:38:47 <elliott> the "dummy programs with Unicode in the name" thing is getting really old.
17:39:01 <kmc> its all unicode :<
17:39:22 <Roujo> ... This is only the second time I've done it, elliott >_<
17:41:09 <boily> Roujo: you need to find something more... obscure. something that will slip past behind the Ever Examinating Elliott Eyes.
17:41:34 <Roujo> I guess don't really have anything on-topic to do here, anyway, so I can see how that could be annoying
17:41:40 <Roujo> Anyway, have a nice day
17:41:53 -!- Roujo has left ("Off I go!").
17:42:20 <kmc> `run echo 'echo hi' > bin/`printf '\xcc\x8a'` && chmod +x bin/`printf '\xcc\x8a'`
17:47:24 <fizzie> The insta-angel character.
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18:04:08 <boily> come on, connect, you damn bot...
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18:06:11 <Vorpal> Does anyone know if there is a command line tool to mess with mount namespaces under Linux?
18:06:29 <boily> what do you mean about a mount namespace?
18:07:01 <olsner> I don't mess with that stuff but I think I've stumbled upon the tool
18:07:07 <Vorpal> You know that different programs can have different set of visible mount points right? Used for stuff like virtualization, but Android also uses it for security
18:07:20 <Vorpal> olsner, happen to remember the name?
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18:07:51 <metasepia> ZUUU 231800Z 00000MPS 4000 BR NSC 21/19 Q1013 NOSIG
18:08:11 <fizzie> Vorpal: "unshare" is one tool that's slightly relevant.
18:08:59 <Vorpal> fizzie, I'm basically lookint to set up a unionfs on / (and other partitions as required) to do a checkinstall/fakeroot on stereoids
18:09:06 <boily> Vorpal: something with mount --make-{share,slave,private}?
18:09:36 <fizzie> "unshare" runs a program with mount (or other) namespace privatized, so that whatever changes you do won't affect the parent.
18:10:05 <Vorpal> boily, err what? Looking at it it looks potentially different, but I have no clue what that stuff is
18:10:22 <Vorpal> fizzie, that looks like it could work
18:10:32 <boily> Vorpal: result from a quick google search. I have no idea what it implies, but there's documentation on IBM.com and C code with PAM.
18:11:12 <Vorpal> checking the man page I'm confused
18:11:17 <fizzie> The share/slave/private thing is fancy, but indeed slightly different. I've forgotten exactly how it worked, but it was relevant to what's visible from where through what bind mounts.
18:11:53 <Bike> "Apparently their firewall is blocking access to certain file types." the dav saga continues
18:12:42 <fizzie> It's a kind of a thing where you can mount a tree in such a way that if you mount it with "shared" in one place, and as "slave" in others, then mount something else inside the master location, the slaves will see those same mounts.
18:13:02 <fizzie> Normally you'd of course need to e.g. explicitly bind all new mounts you make inside the master.
18:13:09 <fizzie> I seem to recall that Maemo uses that feature.
18:13:17 <fizzie> Or Meego, or some other thing in that family.
18:13:33 <fizzie> Or some mobile thing anyway. :p
18:14:45 <boily> ah, the Maegozen mess...
18:15:28 <fizzie> I guess it's sort of related to mount namespaces in that there you could easily have a need for shared mounts in addition to private ones.
18:16:06 <fizzie> There's some sort of a thing where you have per-login namespaces, and whan e.g. a user's sshfs mounts be visible in all sessions of that user.
18:16:17 <fizzie> (Man, modern things are so complicated.)
18:16:51 <Vorpal> sshfs on my system is visible across the board from what I can see
18:17:07 <fizzie> Yes, I don't think per-login namespaces are exactly commonplace.
18:17:08 <Vorpal> Not usable by others unless you pass -o allow_root or some such flag
18:17:10 <boily> can you chain sshfses across multiple machines?
18:17:18 <kmc> when you sshfs mount something with default options then root "can't" access it, which is strange
18:17:35 <Vorpal> kmc, I know, which annoyed me a lot when doing rdiff-backup on my phone
18:17:41 <kmc> boily: you mean sshfs mount a remote filesystem which has sshfs mounts? yes of course
18:17:44 <kmc> I've done it
18:18:01 <Vorpal> Going to be slow though
18:18:06 <kmc> not necessarily
18:18:26 <kmc> my favorite thing about Linux namespaces is the number of security holes created by allowing unprivileged users to create them
18:18:39 <Vorpal> kmc, unprivileged users can create them? heh
18:18:48 <Vorpal> yeah that could cause loads of issues
18:18:56 <boily> kmc: I mean having an sshfs mount that tunnels through one or more machines to get to a distant one.
18:19:00 <kmc> well it's a newish feature, don't know when it's enabled
18:19:07 <Vorpal> I heard android 4.3 uses SElinux as well.
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18:19:23 <olsner> that whole namespace stuff sounds like something that should increase security, not create more holes
18:19:34 <kmc> olsner: sure if it has no bugs
18:19:45 <kmc> but it's a ton of new code which breaks a bunch of longstanding assumptions
18:20:06 <kmc> http://lwn.net/Articles/543273/ hey this looks like a cool article
18:20:07 <Vorpal> They should have unit tests and such... Hm, are there automated testing suits of any kind of the kernel?
18:20:21 <kmc> lol you can't find security holes that way Vorpal
18:20:31 <kmc> they should have automated tests just to prevent security *regressions*, which do happen
18:20:31 <boily> testing is for wimps. failures should be spectacular!
18:20:32 <Vorpal> true, but you can find bugs
18:20:34 <fizzie> Vorpal: Incidentally, the clone thing from last night worked on the first try, after gdisk expert-mode fixing the disk-size and backup header fields. (Also bumped the Windows Experience Index score up by two points or something.)
18:20:35 <kmc> but it's nothing near a solution
18:21:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, nice, my desktop scores like 7.5-7.9 on everything but the disk, which caps the whole thing to 5.4 or some such
18:22:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, funnily it is my SSD in my work laptop that caps it's score too to 6.8 or some such. That is an Intel 520 SSD
18:22:38 <Vorpal> Other than that it scores like 7.1-7.3 iirc
18:22:48 <fizzie> Vorpal: Same here. I think I have 7.9 from all other categories (though it goes to 9.9 these days), except the disk was 5.x; now it's 7.1. (It's not the fastest possible SSD.)
18:23:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, 9.9 is Windows 8 I presume?
18:23:45 <fizzie> Yes, it's an 8 install.
18:24:03 <fizzie> Wonder if 8.1 is going to bump those up even more.
18:24:06 <Vorpal> fizzie, how terrible is it?
18:24:31 <fizzie> I keep starting Chrome every now and then because it's at the left edge of the quick launch bar where a start window would be. :p
18:24:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, apart from that? Do you hate it?
18:25:22 <fizzie> Well, honestly I don't really use it all that much. Certainly it works okay for basically running Steam.
18:25:46 <fizzie> I've installed Emacs on it and whatnot, but I'm not entirely clear why I bothered.
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18:26:53 <Vorpal> I presume it is a Linux distro?
18:27:03 <Vorpal> Anyway, when did they announce that?
18:27:14 <fizzie> Windows 8.1 is going to add a start menu and a straight-to-Desktop boot option, which I guess will make the UI more "usual". I'm not a real fan of the start screen.
18:27:18 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think they've said but it's the only viable candidate
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18:27:25 <Bike> «Imagine that, Valve decided that the "environment best suited" to Steam is one it owns and controls fully»
18:28:48 <metasepia> valve definition: '''archaic''' a leaf of a folding or double door.
18:29:02 <fizzie> "Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014."
18:29:11 <Bike> "SteamOS combines the rock-solid architecture of Linux with a gaming experience built for the big screen." i guess that's straightforward
18:29:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, that, er, seems a bit hyperbolic what with the linux part
18:29:16 <elliott> fizzie: 8.1's start menu isn't actually a menu.
18:29:20 <elliott> fizzie: it just brings up the start screen.
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18:29:36 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: eh android's pretty controlled
18:29:44 <Vorpal> Bike, how locked down will it be though?
18:30:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, yeah but is it really 'owned and controlled fully' by google (i don't know how android works)
18:30:19 <elliott> fizzie: personally I used http://www.startisback.com/ to make Windows 8 like bad old Windows when playing around with it in a VM. YMMV on whether you can bring yourself to pay for a start menu.
18:30:33 <fizzie> elliott: Oh? Well, I guess that's okay too. I can just think the screen is a big menu.
18:31:07 <Bike> The living-room is family territory. That’s great, but you don’t want to see your parents’ games in your library. Soon, families will have more control over what titles get seen by whom, and more features to allow everyone in the house to get the most out of their Steam libraries.
18:31:18 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, Android is kind of controlled, kind of open. The source is open, the play store, is not. Nor is the development towards the next release until it is released.
18:32:05 <fizzie> "You can play all your Windows and Mac games on your SteamOS machine, too. Just turn on your existing computer and run Steam as you always have - then your SteamOS machine can stream those games over your home network straight to your TV!"
18:32:12 <fizzie> That streaming stuff seems really popular these days.
18:32:20 <fizzie> Doesn't Nvidia keep doing that kind of thing too?
18:32:53 <fizzie> Yes, but I mean locally-inside-the-house kind of stuff this time.
18:33:02 <Vorpal> I doubt there are many games on mac that are not on windows. I know of a couple, and they are really really old.
18:33:25 <fizzie> Shield streams games from a PC too, AIUI.
18:34:15 <fizzie> And I guess they have the GRID project.
18:34:34 <fizzie> Nvidia's own Onlive-style thing, I think.
18:35:03 <kmc> Bike: porn games right
18:35:10 <kmc> that must be it
18:35:15 <Bike> u know it bro B)
18:35:31 <fizzie> I'm not entirely sure if they were going to run the service too or what; at least it's a family of hardware for running a "cloud gaming" service.
18:36:35 <Fiora> I thought the idea was that steam was going to stream from a PC in your house
18:36:38 <fizzie> "When service operators use NVIDIA GRID as the foundation for their on-demand Gaming as a Service (GaaS) solution --"
18:36:49 <Bike> gonna play me some leisure suit larry on the biiiiig screen
18:37:01 <fizzie> Bike: With the biiiiig pixels.
18:37:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, yes, that's what fizzie was initially talking about
18:37:10 <Bike> foo as a service is pretty great
18:45:28 <fizzie> The background on the SteamOS page -- http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/ -- looks kind of like the Land of Wind and Shade. (I'm about 3000 pages behind in Homestuck, incidentally.)
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18:59:21 <Fiora> thanks for completing my regex -_-
18:59:31 <Bike> you need the trailing slash for sed, man!
19:00:09 <Bike> also imo it's not very hilly since it's in magispace
19:02:40 <Fiora> the magic of paradox space!
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19:09:30 <ais523> someone just posted on a.l.i asking for a MarioLANG impl
19:09:44 <ais523> (mentioning it here, because I imagine most of you don't read a.l.i)
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19:19:39 <fizzie> "How much are they paying?"
19:21:38 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, oh, you were up to the doc scratch intermission?
19:22:28 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: I think I was up to something like that, yes.
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19:49:54 <Jafet> gcc has become impressively good at emitting calls to optimized functions that don't exist
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20:16:01 <metasepia> Your divination: "Great Possessing" to "Sojourning"
20:21:06 <metasepia> Your divination: "Small Exceeding" to "Sojourning"
20:24:05 <metasepia> Your divination: "Grouping" to "Returning"
20:24:15 <boily> ah. I was worried it was stuck on sojourning.
20:25:19 <metasepia> Your divination: "Returning" to "Gnawing Bite"
20:25:40 <nooodl> boily: what are these from
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20:26:39 <olsner> is I also written ~yi or something?
20:26:46 <Koen> I Ching... is that the weird two-player game where you've got to draw a path with othello-like tiles?
20:27:08 <kmc> imagine my confusion when I looked up in the sky to see a bunch of tiny clouds spelling out the word "CLOUD" in big letters
20:27:10 <boily> olsner: depends on the romanisation.
20:27:27 <kmc> (skywriter advertising)
20:27:35 <boily> kmc is stalked by fractal clouds.
20:27:41 <Bike> that sounds very pkd
20:27:47 <boily> Koen: never heard of that.
20:28:09 <kmc> my usual tagline is "stupid cyberpunk future" but this is less cyberpunk and more like Hofstadter and PKD dropped acid together
20:28:43 <boily> Koen: there's this game played with a go board and stones, where both players use black stone at first, then one of them decides during the game to play white.
20:29:13 <kmc> everything in this city is trying to sell me clouds of various shapes
20:29:34 <boily> olsner: apparently, my divination relates to having freedom transformed into vacations or something.
20:29:43 <boily> I think I'm due for a quick trip abroad...
20:31:23 <Koen> boily: do you mean go with the pie-rule?
20:31:30 <Koen> never seen anyone play that
20:32:14 <boily> no, the goal is to make a line that connects 2 or 3 sides first. can't remember the details; I'm trying to find the game again.
20:37:22 <boily> I think it's that, but I'm vraiment pas sûr: http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/gv/gonnect.htm
20:37:57 <Koen> RULES - The rules of GO apply, except:
20:37:58 <Koen> Players may not pass;
20:37:58 <Koen> The PIE rule: White may choose as his 1st move to exchange places with Black.
20:38:12 <boily> that's why I'm not sure it's that.
20:38:34 <Koen> though I didn't quote the remainder of the page where they explain you have to connect 2 or 3 sides
20:38:53 <boily> I *know* there's a game where you have to connect three sides.
20:42:13 <Koen> hmmm interesting
20:42:41 <Koen> the article says player often reach a dead-end because of mutually separated groups
20:43:04 <Koen> so the game keeps going until someone runs out of moves and has to commit suicide
20:43:16 <Koen> so that's basically go
20:43:47 <boily> my favourite go move is the nuclear tesuji :D
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20:46:48 <boily> but then, nothing compares to a Swedish fuseki.
20:55:38 <Bike> `frink 125 J -> L*atm
20:55:51 <HackEgo> 5000/4053 (approx. 1.233654083395016)
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21:10:29 <Koen> I'll look into it
21:10:43 <oerjan> @tell quintopia <quintopia> anyone who sees that in the future will think it is two quotes <-- WOW YOU WERE PSYCHIC
21:11:32 <oerjan> Koen: in fact, that machine being TC is a step on the road to showing that an ordinary minsky machine with 2 register is TC.
21:13:55 <oerjan> Koen: also, fractran is basically a version of it with much simplified flow control.
21:16:21 <oerjan> because fractran has no persistent machine state in addition to the unbounded single register.
21:16:59 <oerjan> (you need temporary state to know where you are in the list of fractions, though.)
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21:26:23 * boily applies percussive maintenance on ais523 --------#̈#̈#̈
21:26:53 <ais523> oerjan: it's my standard rule that whenever I accidentally spam a lot of keys due to leaning on the keyboard in #esoteric, I send rather than delete
21:27:01 <ais523> I noticed I'd been leaning on the "2" key, so…
21:27:15 <oerjan> i seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
21:28:21 <boily> I like how a simple “plot twist” becomes «revirement de situation». sometimes, English is much more efficient...
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21:29:40 <kmc> psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est
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21:30:01 <boily> run run, run awaaaaaaaaayyyyyy ♪
21:30:17 <boily> ~duck psycho killer
21:30:18 <metasepia> "Psycho Killer" is a song written by David Byrne, Chris Frantz and Tina Weymouth and first played by their band The Artistic in 1974, and as new wave band Talking Heads in 1975, with a later version recorded for their 1977 album Talking Heads: 77.
21:30:31 <Bike> ba ba ba ba, ba ba ba ba ba, ba, better
21:36:15 <metasepia> ZMUB 232130Z 00000MPS CAVOK M06/M08 Q1024 NOSIG RMK QFE659.9 89
21:38:27 <metasepia> ENSB 232050Z 14003KT CAVOK 00/M02 Q1034 RMK WIND 1400FT 26003KT
21:38:38 <boily> meh. it's colder in Ulaan Baatar than in Svalbard.
21:42:56 <kmc> http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ZMUB-ENSB
21:44:03 <metasepia> UEEE 232130Z 34006MPS 9999 BKN016CB OVC100 03/01 Q0997 NOSIG RMK QFE739 23190055
21:44:46 <kmc> ~metar KSFO
21:44:46 <metasepia> KSFO 232056Z 05003KT 10SM CLR 22/13 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP151 T02170133 58016
21:45:17 <boily> and you can chain them!
21:46:10 <boily> http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CYUL-KEWR-VHHH
21:46:21 <kmc> yeah it's a cool site
21:46:36 <boily> and of course it's all nice and sunny and warm in Frisco.
21:46:45 <kmc> don't call it Frisco!!
21:46:59 <Bike> ulaanbaatar is in the middle of a continental desert, it gets super windy i think
21:47:10 <kmc> sorry we locals are supposed to get really annoyed when people call it Frisco
21:47:16 <boily> Bike: right now, there's no wind at that airport.
21:47:16 <kmc> I don't actually know why but it's A Thing
21:47:18 <Bike> what about Cisco
21:47:22 <kmc> Bike: even worse
21:47:32 <kmc> and yes, "Cisco" is named after the last five letters in "San Francisco"
21:48:00 <kmc> the old Nabisco building in Cambridge, MA is now owned by Novartis
21:48:23 <kmc> from biscuits to boner pills
21:48:42 <boily> Novartis owns all, except when property of GSK or Bayer.
21:48:48 <boily> (or probably Astra Zeneca)
21:49:33 <kmc> don't think Pfizer is owned by any of those
21:49:57 <kmc> Novartis is descended from the company that invented LSD
21:50:23 <boily> time to go empoison myself.
21:50:30 <olsner> hmm, one of the burger chains has a Frisco meal
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21:51:03 <kmc> there's a Frisco, Texas
21:51:18 <Bike> named entirely to piss off san franciscans
21:51:55 * kmc is now looking at Dallas and Houston on a map
21:51:58 <kmc> so many freeways
21:52:16 <kmc> not quite like LA though
21:56:45 * oerjan recalls looking up Frisco on wikipedia once. it actually was named after san francisco.
21:57:09 <oerjan> once = last couple of months, i think
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21:58:08 <olsner> I wonder if it's still named after san francisco
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22:02:49 <kmc> "In 1904, the residents chose Frisco City in honor of the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway on which the town was founded"
22:03:38 <kmc> which railway apparently never made it west of Texas
22:03:43 <kmc> optimistic name
22:09:26 <kmc> we had a house office named Godspeed Through Texas
22:09:34 <kmc> I forget what their duties were, other than organizing Naked Run
22:11:06 <oerjan> i guess you'd need to speed through texas for that.
22:13:12 <kmc> it takes a long time to run from california to texas, whether or not you're naked
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