00:00:01 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ . lib/interp \ cd interps/bf_txtgen \ \ get_arg \ java textgen -g 1000 -i "$ARG_FILE" | tail -n 2 | head -n 1 \ clean_arg
00:00:11 <JWinslow23> All I got so far is ++++++++++[>++++>++++>++++++>++++++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+++++<<<<<<<-]>+++..........>+++++>>++>+.<.<<<....>>>.<<<....>>>.<<<......>>>.<<<......>>>.<<<.........>>>.<<<..........>>>.<<<.....>>.......<.>>>>+++.<<.<<<...>>>>>>----..........
00:00:21 <Bike> the level of indirection here is astounding and bewildering.
00:01:02 <JWinslow23> I have no idea how any quines were ever made in this language!
00:01:10 <Bike> JWinslow23: you could use mine, prepended with a fixed point of txtgen (w/o the outputs)
00:01:20 <Bike> well, some kind of txtgen, anyway, not this one.
00:01:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:01:51 <JWinslow23> There will come a time where it will be done.
00:02:06 <Bike> JWinslow23: you could also
00:02:34 <JWinslow23> Any null program is automatically a quine!
00:02:36 <myname> cheating is part of the game
00:02:45 <myname> JWinslow23: not in java
00:02:57 <Bike> i don't think the empty program is valid java.
00:03:16 <myname> that's not object oriented!
00:03:19 <Bike> in haskell the empty program is i think not a quine.
00:03:25 <Bike> > -- dunno if this even works.
00:03:26 <lambdabot> not an expression: `-- dunno if this even works.'
00:03:34 <Bike> not what i expected.
00:03:54 <Bike> i shouldn't have asked.
00:03:57 <JWinslow23> >+++++>+++>+++>+++++>+++>+++>+++++>++++++>+>++>+++>++++>++++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+ >++++>+++++++>+>+++++>+>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>++>+>+>++++>++++++>++++>++++>+++ >+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>+>+>++>++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++++++>++++++>+>+>++++++ >++++++>+>+>+>+++++>++++++>+>+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++>++>+>+>++>++>+ >+>+>+>++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>++>+>+>+>+>++ >+>+>++++>+++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+++++>++
00:04:26 <Bike> well, it doesn't output anything...
00:05:03 <myname> JWinslow23: what should that do?
00:05:12 <oerjan> Bike: the java textgen is not Gregor's program, he just wrote a wrapper around to run it using EgoBot's command api, which `interp invokes (at least in HackEgo)
00:05:41 <Bike> wait, wait, so
00:05:50 <Bike> the java program is also a wrapper? is that what i'm hearing here.
00:06:15 <myname> a bash script calling another script calling a java programm calling the real thing?
00:06:22 <myname> boy, that's indirection
00:06:34 <JWinslow23> ^bf >+++++>+++>+++>+++++>+++>+++>+++++>++++++>+>++>+++>++++>++++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+>++++>+++++++>+>+++++>+>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>++>+>+>++++>++++++>++++>++++>+++>+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>+>+>++>++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++++++>++++++>+>+>++++++>++++++>+>+>+>+++++>++++++>+>+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++>++>+>+>++>++>+>+>+>+>++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>++>+>+>+>+>++>+>+>++++>+++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+++++>+++
00:06:44 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:06:47 <Gregor> myname: ITYM "abstraction"
00:06:48 <myname> JWinslow23: that doesn't output anything
00:06:52 <Bike> myname: don't forget the UML part. pretty awesome.
00:07:07 <oerjan> JWinslow23: you realize you are hitting the irc line limit, right?
00:07:20 <ais523> is that lost kingdoms, by any chance?
00:07:37 <ais523> it does look a bit like a quine
00:07:41 <ais523> but it's getting cut off
00:07:50 <JWinslow23> ais523, where would I find a copy of that Lost Kingdom thing?
00:08:40 <oerjan> JWinslow23: it looks like the beginning "make a representation of the final part of the program on the tape" of a quine, but it's missing the actual final part that would print both it and the final part.
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00:09:26 <oerjan> i recall reading recently someone saying that lost kingdom was hard to find.
00:09:29 <ais523> JWinslow23: seems to be at http://web.archive.org/web/20111031121638/http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html
00:09:58 <Bike> "this Brainfuck edition is significantly larger at 2.08Mb" ha.
00:10:20 -!- Taneb has joined.
00:10:40 <ais523> JWinslow23: yeah, it is
00:11:29 <oerjan> Bike: i don't know if the java program is a wrapper, that's not what i meant anyhow.
00:11:56 <kmc> Bike: the empty file is not a valid Haskell program because it doesn't define 'main'
00:12:36 <oerjan> JWinslow23: i am somewhat doubtful that you can fit a bf quine into a single irc line, because it's so hard to setup data compactly in bf.
00:13:02 <kmc> clearly we need an algorithm which compresses Brainfuck using the whole of the Universal Character Set
00:13:09 <kmc> there are probably five of those on the wiki already
00:13:42 <Bike> the irc length limit is by character, right? bet you could fit a lot of bits in there...
00:13:43 <oerjan> and being clever means expanding the part of the program that is making the decoding
00:14:06 <kmc> oerjan: when I was writing a 446-byte real mode demo I concluded that packers weren't worth it for this reason
00:14:06 <oerjan> Bike: now decode those bits without making the program even huger.
00:14:13 <kmc> but I may have been insufficiently clever with my packers
00:14:27 <kmc> real mode x86 code is reasonably compact, especially if it's written by hand to be compact
00:14:54 <Bike> oh, i just meant, using a bf that use three bit groups for commands, instead of characters.
00:15:00 <Bike> so a 24-bit character could have eight commands.
00:15:09 <kmc> too bad unicode characters are only 20.1 bits
00:16:06 <ion> > logBase 2 . fromIntegral . ord $ maxBound
00:16:33 <oerjan> Bike: the problem with trying to cheat the irc length limit with bits is that bf ignores all but it's 8 ascii command values
00:16:52 <Bike> yes i'm not talking about ^bf!
00:17:39 <ion> Just think about how much bandwidth is wasted globally from the unused 0.91 bits.
00:18:12 <Bike> is 20.087 bits enough to encode all of tungusic, hieroglyphs, and the lingua ignota? important
00:20:33 <JWinslow23> I saw Finally Taking Over The World. It was a good game, especially since it was written by hand.
00:21:01 <oerjan> > var $ \s -> s ++ show s "> var $ \\s -> s ++ show s "
00:21:02 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a0] -> [a0]'
00:21:16 <kmc> how about all the characters from the voynich manuscript
00:21:22 <kmc> that would be great
00:21:32 <oerjan> > var $ (\s -> s ++ show s) "> var $ (\\s -> s ++ show s) "
00:21:33 <lambdabot> > var $ (\s -> s ++ show s) "> var $ (\\s -> s ++ show s) "
00:21:48 <kmc> U+2F739 VOYNICH SCRIPT SQUIGGLY THING THAT LOOKS KINDA LIKE AN EIGHT, I GUESS
00:22:18 <kmc> apparently it was transcribed to punched cards in 1940.
00:22:52 <oerjan> JWinslow23: um i'm pretty sure `? `? existed before you started.
00:23:11 <oerjan> and did something approximately like that
00:23:28 <ais523> no, Wierd's a different language entirely
00:23:55 <lambdabot> http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com/
00:23:55 <lambdabot> Title: Damn You Auto Correct! » Funny iPhone Fails and Autocorrect Horror Stories
00:24:07 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Voynich_Alphabet
00:24:20 <ais523> now I'm trying to think up a shell oneliner quine that prepends `run to itself
00:25:38 <kmc> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Voynich_manuscript_bathtub2_example_78r_cropped.jpg
00:26:11 <kmc> "A dense continuous text interspersed with figures, mostly showing small naked women, some wearing crowns, bathing in pools or tubs connected by an elaborate network of pipes, some of them strongly reminiscent of body organs"
00:26:40 <oerjan> JWinslow23: actually `? `? did something different. `? quine did something similar.
00:27:09 <HackEgo> Humphrey Bogart is a cousin to Lady Di.
00:27:59 <elliott> voynich creeps me the fuck out :(
00:31:53 <oerjan> `learn NIMBY : Not in my backyard.
00:32:13 <oerjan> i reverted the quine mess and the broken humphrey.
00:32:42 <kmc> sorry elliott
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00:42:47 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/ / "$*" /' bin/ReLcOmE
00:43:16 <oerjan> `WeLcOmE bad_shell_programmers
00:43:21 <HackEgo> BaD_ShElL_PrOgRaMmErS: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
00:43:27 <oerjan> `ReLcOmE bad_shell_programmers
00:43:30 <HackEgo> BaD_ShElL_PrOgRaMmErS: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
00:44:55 <oerjan> @tell nortti It might be an idea to actually test commands you add to HackEgo.
00:50:06 <Taneb> elliott, go to bed it's like 2 am
00:51:03 <Taneb> oerjan, go to bed it's like 3 am
00:51:25 <Taneb> I think I am lashing out to cope with the fact that my sleep and food schedules have pretty much disappeared
00:51:28 <oerjan> elliott: btw myndzi already ignores HackEgo.
00:51:49 <oerjan> Taneb: you mean i shouldn't have made that bet?
00:52:06 <oerjan> `pastlog bet.*taneb.*schedule
00:52:36 <Koen__> Taneb: don't you have work or studies to force-schedule you?
00:52:41 <oerjan> `pastlog bet.*taneb.*schedule
00:52:45 <Taneb> Koen__, not till Monday
00:52:55 <ais523> `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y
00:52:55 <HackEgo> 2013-10-02.txt:00:38:10: <oerjan> shall we have a betting pool of how soon before Taneb's sleep schedule unravels
00:52:56 <HackEgo> `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y
00:53:19 * oerjan swats ais523 for burying his `pastlog -----###
00:53:21 <ais523> it's not aiming to be obfuscated or unclear in any way, it's aiming to be a by-the-book quine
00:53:23 <Taneb> oerjan, my sleep schedule had already unraveled about two days before that
00:53:38 <ais523> huh, jwinslow23 isn't even here any more, so I can't show em
00:53:48 <myname> ais523: aren't quines with eval cheating?
00:53:59 <ais523> myname: only if they read their own source code
00:54:15 <ais523> actually, I don't think eval can be used to cheat unless you combine it with some other cheating method anyway
00:54:17 <oerjan> Taneb: anyway if i were to go to bed now i would need some knockout drug.
00:54:33 <ais523> I'm just using the variable definitions + eval as a method of defining a custom escaping mechanism
00:54:37 <Taneb> I'm going to try and regain my sleep schedule, brb
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00:54:42 <ais523> because I wanted to do it with only bash builtins
00:55:40 <oerjan> `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf
00:55:40 <oerjan> \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf
00:55:40 <oerjan> \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf
00:55:40 <oerjan> ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s
00:55:40 <oerjan> g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf
00:55:42 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
00:55:42 <oerjan> ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y
00:56:46 <oerjan> thank you irssi, the one time i _wanted_ your line joining to work...
00:57:11 <oerjan> `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y
00:57:13 <HackEgo> `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y
00:57:40 <ais523> oerjan: is that just my quine, or did you change it a bit?
00:58:01 <oerjan> that's the output of your quine. i just wanted to check it _hadn't_ changed :P
00:59:22 <ais523> it's quite hard to distinguish a quine from its output
00:59:38 <ais523> actually, an earlier almost-working version had the eval and echo backwards /inside/ the quotes
00:59:43 <ais523> and it took me a while to spot what was wrong
00:59:57 <ais523> I'm almost positive that shorter bash quines exist, anyway
01:00:10 <ais523> probably involving defining functions
01:00:21 <HackEgo> PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 284 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 285 ? 00:00:00 cat
01:00:31 <HackEgo> PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 285 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 286 ? 00:00:00 cat
01:00:39 <ais523> I was hoping for completely different PIDs
01:00:53 <oerjan> i think it's sh, not bash, which is why i was worried about your quine
01:01:26 <oerjan> that HackEgo /bin/sh thing has some awful bash inconsistencies.
01:01:37 <HackEgo> PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 284 ? 00:00:00 bash \ 285 ? 00:00:00 cat \ 287 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 288 ? 00:00:00 tail
01:02:47 <ais523> oerjan: it'd work fine in sh too
01:02:51 <ais523> just printf isn't a builtin in sh
01:02:57 <ais523> so it wouldn't be done entirely with builtins
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03:18:52 <elliott> ais523: we have a {{wayback}} template, by the way
03:19:05 <ais523> elliott: I thought we did
03:19:09 <ais523> but it has to link to an older version than the latest
03:19:13 <ais523> wasn't sure if that was doable
03:19:13 <elliott> ais523: it supports that :)
03:19:16 <ais523> so I just copy-pasted the URL
03:19:30 <ais523> and figured that someone would correct me if they wanted to (only I thought it'd be oerjan not you)
03:19:58 <elliott> oerjan can do the actual edit.
03:33:06 <Bike> I think there are too many people in computers just for the money. It's a damn shame that computers are “respected” now. ☯89MAR
03:52:42 <oerjan> Bike: is that form 1989?
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04:28:44 <kmc> kids / lawn
04:30:32 <Bike> it's nice to know that these people predate, like, me.
04:31:43 <oerjan> wouldn't you rather prefer not to be predated upon
04:31:44 <kmc> I on the other hand was a whole year old in March '89
04:31:58 <Bike> oerjan: good point
04:38:53 <zzo38> What is it called if you use a pastebin or tiny URL service to write it down on a small paper to recover it later (for your own use)?
04:45:22 <kmc> zzo38: cloud computing
04:46:23 <zzo38> kmc: I mean this specific instance (and it doesn't contain anything private/secret)
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05:45:39 <elliott> fizzie: someone wants to know if you are going to NIPS
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07:27:55 <fizzie> elliott: I'm not. I think some colleagues are.
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07:42:32 <fizzie> @tell oerjan I can't believe someone hasn't noticed that bug earlier, if it has been there. Maybe my latest bugfix somehow broke that.
07:44:26 <Bike> the brainfuckery?
07:46:26 <fizzie> Sadly, I no longer understand the fix.
07:48:58 <fizzie> It's supposed to put a 0 after the isolated command options, though.
07:49:09 <fizzie> It's even done with STRN's "P", which should make that foolproof.
07:52:42 <fizzie> 123456789012345678901234567890
07:52:47 <fizzie> 123456789012345678901234567890
07:53:27 <fizzie> Maybe it needs to do something to the input line pointer when there is no !.
07:55:04 <fizzie> Oh, I think I see what happens.
07:56:03 <fizzie> It's supposed to put a reference to the \0 at the end of the message when there is no !, but I think it has an off-by-one error, because it runs the same 1+ that bumps the number to one past the !.
07:56:11 <fizzie> Well, that's an easy fix.
07:57:29 <fizzie> 123456789012345678901234567890
07:59:22 <fizzie> Fix committed, for all you other fungot operators.
07:59:22 <fungot> fizzie: almost as sluggish as my brain right now.)
07:59:44 <fizzie> fungot: Come now, it was just two more instructions and it's even executed only for a ^bf.
07:59:44 <fungot> fizzie: the ' repl orientation' is standard in " sessions" in servlets.
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10:02:15 <ais523> ticket changed: * priority: minor => critical
10:02:31 <ais523> I guess I favour priority inheritance as my method to solve priority inversions on my bug tracker
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10:04:39 <Taneb> Oh wow I'm getting some players together and I'm gonna DM a game of Diana: Warrior Princess
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13:46:07 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, one of my flatmates has taught me a bit more KSP
13:53:46 <Vorpal> Well this is interesting, vlc is only displaying the red channel when playing mp4... I'll test some other video players.
13:55:05 <Vorpal> OKAY!? mplayer is displaying the red and the blue channel, but nothing else
13:56:55 <Vorpal> Okay it is the xv backend that is broken, using opengl + software decoding works...
13:59:10 <Vorpal> I suspect the GPU drivers, they are somewhat recently updated
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14:40:55 <fizzie> If VLC was displaying red and mplayer blue and green, maybe you could've gotten a working video by translucently composing VLC and mplayer on top of each other.
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14:55:16 <Vorpal> fizzie, right, but mplayer was red and blue though
14:55:47 <Vorpal> Anyway, switching the backend from xvideo to opengl worked
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15:03:29 <fizzie> Also, a sunset: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130929-sunset.jpg
15:03:35 <fizzie> (We've been sorting the digital pile of photos accumulated over the summer, to show friends and relatives; hence this and the flower before.)
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15:19:12 <fizzie> By writing "`? quine" in wisdom/quine, presumably.
15:19:41 <JWinslow23> I only got it to say "quine `? quine".
15:20:12 <Bike> `cat wisdom/quine
15:20:19 <fizzie> You can get it to say things that don't being with the word itself by manipulating files in wisdom/ directly.
15:20:56 <fizzie> (It's just `learn that can't do it.)
15:21:06 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/reversal: No such file or directory
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15:22:16 <HackEgo> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
15:22:57 <Bike> `run echo lasrever > wisdom/reversal
15:23:00 <Bike> it's just linux.
15:24:08 <fizzie> Linux does run on various kinds of PCs.
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15:40:27 <fizzie> Only 32% of wisdom entries begin with the entry name.
17:02:03 <Gregor> fizzie: Wow, really? X-D
17:02:10 <Gregor> Makes `learn seem rather silly.
17:08:23 <fizzie> Disclaimer: statistic is an approximation generated with a cd wisdom; find . -type f | cut -c 3- | while read f; do if head -c ${#f} -- "$f" | grep -qF -- "$f"; then echo yes; else echo no; fi; done | sort | uniq -c except locally because it was timing out.
17:08:57 <fizzie> (It was correct for a couple of spot-checked entries, but could have issues.)
17:09:50 <fizzie> Seems it doesn't do lowercasing correctly.
17:10:25 <fizzie> 63% are `learn-compatible, after correcting for that.
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17:24:21 <HackEgo> bc ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵
17:25:29 <HackEgo> Right is not two wrongs but three lefts.
17:26:14 <HackEgo> shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj is the reason why the USA don't use the metric system.
17:27:06 <HackEgo> ~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=≪+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-,
17:27:50 <HackEgo> エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て： http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）
17:28:18 <olsner> I wonder if "Ramen noodles are a type of sewing from the original trees." is a faithful translation or simply poorly translated by google
17:28:26 <HackEgo> \ Piet is a really colorful programming language.
17:28:53 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs.
17:29:27 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:30:31 <HackEgo> hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids ...
17:31:04 <HackEgo> I think you might mean !logs
17:31:11 <HackEgo> I think you might mean !logs
17:31:21 <Bike> you know, the wisdom is mostly in the pdf
17:31:25 <Bike> you don't need to take up the channe
17:31:37 <Bike> (or you could use pms of course)
17:34:25 <HackEgo> エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て： http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）
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17:40:46 <Sgeo> http://code.divshot.com/geo-bootstrap/#
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17:46:17 <zzo38> Did you add some `? file for other esolangs such as Underload and Checkout? Perhaps also such thing as FurryScript?
17:48:23 <zzo38> Also add P.D.Q Bach is INTERCAL of Baroque music.
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18:26:46 <fizzie> "There’s one more magic control key that switches your whole reality. This is ^W, which switches between the ships in a pier. Do you have multiple ships in your pier? Sure - you still have your old submarine."
18:26:50 <fizzie> It's all so very strange.
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19:52:40 <fizzie> `learn wecome in pece.
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19:55:38 <fizzie> It's just a "whimsical" acknowledgement from `learn.
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20:20:25 <kmc> UVB-76, UVB-76. 75-59-75-59. 39-52-53-58. 5-5-2-5. Konstantin-1-9-0-9-0-8-9-8-Tatiana-Oksana-Anna-Elena-Pavel-Schuka. Konstantin 8-4. 9-7-5-5-9-Tatiana. Anna Larisa Uliyana-9-4-1-4-3-4-8
20:21:52 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76
20:25:37 <kmc> i like this numbers station because it transmits an annoying buzz 24/7 but apparently this is generated by having a microphone in the room and a buzzing box nearby
20:31:01 <kmc> the buzzing is probably just to ensure the frequency is always available by annoying anyone else who tries to use it
20:32:21 <kmc> but also it occurred to me that an air gap would be desirable if you're connecting cryptographic equipment to a radio transmitter
20:32:49 <elliott> kmc: hey, I was just reading about that a few weeks ago!
20:33:45 <olsner> if I were a plain russian scientist measuring stuff in the ionosphere with a buzzer I'd probably be thrilled about all the myth surrounding that thing
20:34:06 <kmc> you can ask some HAARP scientists about that
20:35:10 <kmc> Wikipedia has a "see also" from UVB-76 to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war) which I'm not sure is justifed by any evidence, but is a creepy connection to draw anyway
20:35:12 <fizzie> Reading about Urbit reminded me of elliott somewhat.
20:35:49 <elliott> fizzie: I read the original Urbit stuff years ago, so yeah.
20:36:03 <elliott> it's not quite crazy enough though :(
20:36:23 <fizzie> It seemed quite crazy, absolutely speaking.
20:39:07 <kmc> "At DEFCON 2 or higher, the Looking Glass pilot and co-pilot were both required to wear an eye patch, retrieved from their Emergency War Order (EWO) kit. In the event of a surprise blinding flash from a nuclear detonation, the eye patch would prevent blindness in the covered eye, thus enabling them to see in at least one eye and continue flying."
20:39:09 <Sgeo> "After the prelude, there is usually an announcement of the number of number-groups in the message, the page to be used from the one-time pad, or other pertinent information. "
20:39:35 <Sgeo> They actually say on those things "Use page 12 of the one-time pad"? Or is the OTP page thing just a guess?
20:40:05 <kmc> so it's basically "in case of nuclear war, fire missiles using remaining eye"
20:40:20 <kmc> Sgeo: I think it's a guess
20:40:29 <olsner> I got the impression that the thing itself (urbit) is significantly less crazy than the descriptions of it
20:41:05 <fizzie> (In related news, I like how github's "number of commits" splines in a single-week graph go below 0 when there's something non-zero next to two consecutive zeros.
20:41:11 <kmc> Sgeo: have you heard the Conet Project recordings: https://ia600500.us.archive.org/12/items/ird059/
20:41:25 <fizzie> I'm sure the nice curvy lines are pretty, but the interpolation makes no sense.
20:42:04 <Sgeo> I am suddenly less certain that I am not on drugs
20:44:47 <kmc> `addquote <Sgeo> I am suddenly less certain that I am not on drugs
20:44:51 <HackEgo> 1116) <Sgeo> I am suddenly less certain that I am not on drugs
20:46:11 <Phantom_Hoover> why are intelligent organisations so obsessed with making their secret transmissions sound creepy
20:46:32 <olsner> kmc: I like the fact that someone has thought that stuff through and come up with procedures for it (re looking glass pilots)
20:48:06 <olsner> (the low-techness of the eye patch is a nice bonus, but apparently they replaced them with fancy goggles later)
20:48:51 <kmc> i blame the fancy goggle industrial complex
20:48:55 <kmc> http://uvb-76.net/p/triangulation.html this map looks pretty cool.
20:49:57 <kmc> wow apparently there is a Freenode channel about UVB-76 and numbers stations generally
20:51:13 <fizzie> Heh, the Buzzer is nicely audible over that WebSDR thing.
20:53:35 <kmc> Name : UVB-76
20:53:35 <kmc> Genre : Ambient, Russian, Experimental
20:59:16 <fizzie> (A client-side morse decoder is one thing they should maybe add to WebSDR for casual users.)
20:59:48 <Phantom_Hoover> don't you wish the world was like the mercator projection
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21:05:35 <kmc> in DEFCON the missiles look like they're curving up into the atmosphere but they actually curve north on the rectangular map
21:05:42 <kmc> so it's better to put your antimissile stations in the north
21:06:07 <kmc> but really if you're not playing US vs USSR on a polar map then wtf are you doing
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21:49:24 <lambdabot> fizzie said 14h 6m 51s ago: I can't believe someone hasn't noticed that bug earlier, if it has been there. Maybe my latest bugfix somehow broke that.
21:51:31 <fizzie> I went and fixed that thing.
21:51:46 <fizzie> It didn't seem to be related to the earlier fix.
21:52:29 <fizzie> Possibly people had just not tried input without ! all that much.
21:54:53 <oerjan> elliott: ^bf without ! would use parts of previous messages as input
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22:02:04 <fizzie> Specifically, the part that was supposed to set the bf input data index to point at the 0 at the end of the ^bf command instead set it to one past that zero. (Where there was the tail end of whatever previous message longer than the command was.)
22:13:01 <oerjan> @tell <Taneb> Oh wow I'm getting some players together and I'm gonna DM a game of Diana: Warrior Princess <-- ooh
22:13:40 <oerjan> i've never played that, but it's one of the most hilarious tabletop RPG concepts i've heard of
22:15:47 <Koen_> okay, my When interpreter can succesfuly execute a previously parsed When program
22:16:04 <Koen_> learning to use ocamllex and ocamlyacc is a task for another day
22:18:07 <Koen_> oerjan: is your Bag language significantly different than the simple "fractran with token multisets substituted for prime decompositions" it originally was?
22:18:27 <Koen_> subsidiary question, is any version of Bag implemented?
22:21:15 <oerjan> to the second question, that is.
22:21:51 <oerjan> whenever i think about implementing it, i get hung up in how to split up actual numbers given.
22:23:14 <oerjan> i have this clever algorithm which doesn't need to actually prime factor, but i'm not sure if it's efficient if there are a lot of numbers.
22:23:30 <oerjan> and then i procrastinate before even getting to implement that part.
22:23:57 <Koen_> numbers? prime factors? so there not just token lists?
22:24:09 <oerjan> Koen_: you can use either tokens or numbers freely.
22:24:18 <Koen_> s/there/they're :(
22:24:50 <Koen_> can you use both simultaneously?
22:25:01 <Koen_> as in multiplying numbers by token lists
22:25:28 <oerjan> and it's ideally supposed to treat numbers effectively as if they were factored, but then i thought "what is someone puts in an RSA public key to be annoying" and then i thought up my unimplemented algorithm.
22:26:55 <Koen_> oh, you don't need to actually prime factor every number, you just need to check if n is a multiple of the denominator, right?
22:27:18 <oerjan> (because you cannot expect to able to factor an RSA public key in general)
22:27:45 <Koen_> what if I'm very patient
22:28:01 <oerjan> Koen_: well it's supposed to still be efficient if a huge prime gets raised to a large power
22:28:40 <oerjan> as in, it should handle things that are too large as ordinary bignums
22:28:45 <Koen_> I assume you don't need to actually compute the result of the multiplication
22:29:08 <Koen_> so numbers are hybrids, half-factored, half-notfactored
22:29:20 <oerjan> anyway my algorith is a factorization algorithm, it's just not a _prime_ factorization algorithm.
22:29:44 <oerjan> it factorizes numbers "enough"
22:29:49 * Koen_ has no idea what the subtle difference is
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22:30:40 <JWinslow23> Hi, I want to code a text adventure of my own in BF. Anyone know how to do that (preferably by hand)?
22:30:45 <Koen_> you can't factor *more* than down to prime decomposition, and factoring less is just "going half through with prime factoring"
22:31:05 <kmc> JWinslow23: it's like you're asking us what tools to use and simultaneously saying you don't want to use any tools
22:31:23 <oerjan> Koen_: basically say you have this huge RSA public key that is pq for a large number. if no part of the program has a different number of p's and q's then you don't _need_ to factor those separately.
22:31:27 <JWinslow23> Sorry, but Taking Over The World was written by hand!
22:31:41 <JWinslow23> Give me tools if you can find any, OK?
22:31:47 <oerjan> because everything is of the form (pq)^n * things not containing p or q
22:32:38 <Koen_> JWinslow23: have you ever written a text adventure?
22:33:08 <oerjan> but if you _do_ have both pq and pq^2 say, in the program, then my algorithm can split them up.
22:33:44 <Koen_> don't you think it would be more interesting to write a *regular* text adventure first, then only move on to writing a text adventure using brainfuck?
22:34:20 <Koen_> you're welcome, I guess
22:34:27 <oerjan> (first it notices that gcd(pq,pq^2) = pq, and then that pq^2 / pq = q, so now you have q.)
22:35:04 <oerjan> and then everything gets hideously complicated if there are lots of factors to split out.
22:36:01 <JWinslow23> So, I will tell you when the text adventure is done. Until then, I'm out!
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22:36:34 <Koen_> I think I'm gonna write a Bag interpreter that only accept token multisets
22:37:07 <oerjan> i guess i cannot stop you. unless i nuke the eiffel tower.
22:37:37 <Koen_> well, if you're warning me first, that kinda ruins the point
22:37:47 <oerjan> alternatively you could just handle small numbers.
22:37:57 <Koen_> yes, that's another possibility
22:40:41 <zzo38> What text adventure game do you want to write?
22:40:49 <Koen_> zzo38: I'm afraid he's left
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22:50:41 <kmc> 'He quotes Zheleznyakov on the purpose of Perimeter being "to cool down all these hotheads and extremists. No matter what was going to happen, there still would be revenge."'
22:52:19 <kmc> I don't know what's scarier, the fact that these people thought a robot programmed to automatically kill everyone on the planet would have a calming effect, or the possibility that they were right
22:53:50 <elliott> only semi-automatic, afaik?
22:53:53 <zzo38> Could you use two channels on 8253 PIT with the output of one connected to the gate of another, to make more kind of square waves and other stuff output?
22:54:05 <Koen_> isn't that what cold war was all about?
22:55:07 <oerjan> all that is needed to thwart that scheme is a genuine omnicidal maniac.
22:55:09 <kmc> it also says something about the human psyche that we place a high value on revenge even if it comes after we and everyone we know are dead
22:55:23 <kmc> zzo38: that's a cool idea
22:55:28 <kmc> you could make a musical instrument out of a PIT
22:56:49 <kmc> it'd be fun to list the top 250 channels on Freenode and then cluster them based on shared membership
22:56:52 <kmc> i wonder if someone has done this
23:00:22 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, er, isn't the point more the prospect of revenge?
23:02:10 <Sgeo> Is Perimeter that huge doomsday ship that was proposed but rejected?
23:02:13 <Sgeo> Or is that something else?
23:02:56 <kmc> well the idea here is that human commanders who detect a (possibly false) enemy launch will be less likely to retaliate immediately if they know that Perimeter / Dead Hand will avenge them after their deaths
23:03:26 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover: no, it was a Russian thing
23:03:43 <kmc> so he's arguing that it would have a calming effect on their own commanders, in addition to detering the enemy
23:03:46 <kmc> which is interesting
23:05:30 <Phantom_Hoover> looking for Sgeo's thing, found this http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/09/soviet-doomsday/
23:05:53 <Phantom_Hoover> i like how it makes absolutely no effort to distinguish between doctor strangelove's doomsday device and the real one
23:10:50 <Taneb> How do I make at execute a command as root?
23:12:04 <kmc> you could run 'at' as root
23:12:14 <kmc> or your command could be 'sudo whatever' assuming you have nopasswd sudo
23:14:17 <Taneb> (I'm only doing this to turn my computer into a fancy alarm clock then turn itself off so I don't get distracted)
23:29:16 <oerjan> hm is it tomorrow (well, today) they start revealing nobel prizes
23:32:18 <kmc> cool so I'll get more opportunities to complain about how the "Nobel Prize" in Economics is bullshit
23:32:29 <kmc> i love doing that
23:32:55 <oerjan> that's only next monday though
23:33:21 <oerjan> and they haven't decided when to announce literature yet...
23:33:34 <oerjan> maybe they _really_ couldn't agree this year.
23:37:00 <kmc> good year for literature?
23:37:45 <Phantom_Hoover> oh, because it's actually Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel
23:38:16 <kmc> yeah Nobel had nothing to do with it, the Swedish central bank just decided to start awarding a prize "in memory of Nobel" around the same time as the real Nobel prizes
23:38:40 <kmc> like 70 years after the real prizes were set up
23:38:54 <kmc> which is a little sleazy if you ask me
23:39:19 <kmc> maybe I will also award some prizes in memory of Alfred Nobel
23:39:51 <Sgeo> How are the prizes funded? I know it was originally from Nobel's money, but... that money isn't lasting forever, is it?
23:40:07 <kmc> the idea of endowments is that they last forever (you only spend the interest)
23:40:12 <kmc> but i dunno
23:40:33 <kmc> apparently the foundation had $560 million as of 2007
23:41:20 <kmc> and they give out five * $1.2 million each year?
23:41:40 <kmc> so they only need like a 1% return, which should be easy
23:42:08 <kmc> although the expenses of managing that money and awarding the prizes could easily surpass the prize money itself
23:42:52 <kmc> not to mention the gold medals themselves...
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23:43:25 <kmc> just noticed PH's username is phantomho
23:49:57 <HackEgo> エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て： http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）
23:51:58 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:52:30 <kmc> HackEgo should have a command to translate stuff using Bing or whoever still has an API
23:54:03 <oerjan> does _anyone_ see the first message as a link leading to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page%E3%80%82%EF%BC%88%E4%BB%96%E3%81%AE%E3%82%A8%E3%82%BD%E3%83%86%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%80%81irc.dal.net%E3%81%AE
23:54:30 <Koen_> I see your line as a highlight (hth)
23:54:53 <oerjan> i am slightly guessing jwinslow23 did. since he made it.
23:54:59 <kmc> we should also have EUC-JP and Shift-JIS versions
23:55:39 <oerjan> kmc: you're welcome to repair bin/translatefromto
23:56:05 <kmc> cat: /tmp/x.out: No such file or directory
23:56:28 <kmc> that was supposed to be
23:56:30 <kmc> ƥåץߥΥǥȥǥץȤιݤʾؤ褦ܤơhttp://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page¾Υƥåirc.dal.net#esotericء
23:56:53 <kmc> I don't have a better way than /exec -out to send non-UTF8 to the channel
23:57:04 <Koen_> that's a lot of stroken out Ys
23:58:13 <elliott> 00:57:04 -interactive: Creates a query-like window item. Text written to it is
23:58:16 <elliott> 00:57:04 sent to executed process, like /EXEC -in.
23:58:22 <elliott> you can literally use irssi to talk to a REPL
23:59:05 <oerjan> alas, i already have a suitable tmux window now
23:59:07 <Koen_> we already knew how to do that in #irp