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00:03:21 <HackEgo> [U+2E2E REVERSED QUESTION MARK]
00:05:41 <kmc> dogs are great
00:05:48 <kmc> that one dog tried to play mölkky with us
00:05:51 <kmc> but he didn't know the rules
00:06:08 <kmc> maybe we should have switched to playing dog-mölkky
00:06:10 <olsner> is mölkky that stick-throwing game?
00:06:35 <olsner> dogs like stick-throwing games, I think
00:09:06 <shachaf> dölkky sounds like a more fun game anyway
00:09:26 <oerjan> what ghci has instance Monad (-> x) without doing any imports?
00:09:37 <kmc> no ghci at all
00:09:55 <oerjan> yes that's what i have
00:10:51 <shachaf> kmc: we should play mölkky again sometime
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00:12:46 <shachaf> it's trouble to carry around, though :'(
00:13:02 <kmc> probably Pointless Topology should buy one
00:13:36 <kmc> or I could make one
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00:17:09 <shachaf> maybe we can play when you're in mv
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00:22:25 <Bike> Fiora: https://twitter.com/mc_hankins/status/396757476558643200/photo/1
00:22:59 <fizzie> There was an article in some local paper on how mölkky is becoming more popular abroad, and that already only a small fraction of the sets are sold in Finland.
00:23:20 <kmc> SF 22 BS SS SB MB BW BG SM HP HD BL SQ RC AT MP PA CA SA MV SV LW SC CP SJ TM CL BH MH ST GR
00:24:58 <kmc> only a fraction of all people are born in finland
00:25:47 <fizzie> Yes, but it's a game with such a Finnish name.
00:26:55 <fizzie> And there's a number of "throw things at other things" games already, wouldn't think people need to import one from here.
00:27:31 <fizzie> http://yle.fi/uutiset/molkyn_menestys_antaa_toita_sadoille/6911296 there
00:28:31 <olsner> "In little endian is every thing we load into memory is in reverse order ?" :(
00:29:25 <shachaf> fizzie: don't worry, we weren't pronouncing it correctly
00:35:22 <Bike> https://twitter.com/ibogost/status/396797423714336768/photo/1/large an interesting spin on "lol vintage internet"
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00:41:17 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131103-twitter.jpg <- a twitter picture
00:43:46 <oerjan> shachaf: can newtype F x y a = F ((a -> x) -> y) be Distributable for any x, y
00:44:32 <oerjan> my brain tried to find a general instance but i think it short-circuited
00:44:58 <oerjan> (i assume there shouldn't be one)
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01:18:59 <zzo38> People complain yesterday about "int* p" and "int *p" and "char* *argv" in C codes. I just write "int*p" because the other way both have problems
01:21:04 <kmc> what are the haps my friend
01:22:21 <zzo38> I was designing a computer game in QBASIC called "Savant's Maze" (on a different computer with DOS, not this one). It is roguelike game and you start in the basement and have to reach the top floor.
01:26:03 <zzo38> So far I have line of view made up, message buffer, save games, movement, and there is some different terrains including windows, water, fog (you cannot see very well), broken glass, traps, stairs, etc.
01:26:08 <zzo38> Maybe you have some idea too.
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01:32:55 <oerjan> @ask bike <Bike> i'm just hoping this somehow ends with murdoch getting punched in the face. <-- by prince harry?
01:33:25 <zzo38> In here the daylight saving time is stopped tomorrow.
01:34:10 <oerjan> both north america and europe seem to change on nights before sundays, although different ones.
01:36:14 <zzo38> No, it is Sunday, just early before most people would wake up.
01:36:35 <zzo38> I just stay awake until that time, or else sleep and wake up before that time, to change the clocks that won't automatically change.
01:41:58 <Koen_> if you stay up all night to implement daylight saving time... I think something's wrong :)
01:43:25 <zzo38> Yes, daylight saving time is bad.
01:49:24 <Fiora> Bike: omg, "region of declining hope"
01:57:41 <oerjan> zzo38: i think Koen_ is implying that you're working too hard to keep the clocks correct if you are waking up for the purpose of changing them.
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01:58:10 <Koen_> I'm not implying, I'm demonstrating
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02:03:10 <tswett_q> Hi guys. So this is the nick I'm going to use when I'm not here.
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02:26:34 <Sgeo> I use this nick when I'm not at the computer. I also use this nick when I am at the computer.
02:26:46 <kmc> pair o' docs
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02:29:23 <oerjan> he is a disgruntled ophthalmologist with ironically horrible eyesight. she is a brain surgeon with a dark secret. they fight crime!
02:42:31 <Gregor> That's... not ironic in the slightest.
02:42:40 <kmc> ꙮpthalmꙮlogist
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02:55:45 <oerjan> he is a melancholic polycythemia researcher with ironically low hemoglobin values. she is a cardiologist with a heart of gold. they fight crime!
03:02:22 <HackEgo> [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] [U+0070 LATIN SMALL LETTER P] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
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03:38:26 <shachaf> oerjan: You mean instance Distributive (F x y)?
03:40:43 <shachaf> I agree there shouldn't be one.
03:40:46 <oerjan> or possibly instance Distributive (F X Y) for X and Y some specific types
03:41:21 <shachaf> Well, maybe X=Y=() or something.
03:41:47 <oerjan> i was thinking about this to see if there were any counterexamples to your Distributive always has Representable theory
03:42:17 <shachaf> It's edwardk's theory, you should ask him in #-lens.
03:59:50 <shachaf> -lens is the channel to be in, I hear.
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04:28:00 <Bike> fiora: «We tried EVERYTHING: "just failed to reach statistical significance after log transformation (p<0.07) or non-parametric analysis (p<0.06)» the saga continues
04:28:18 <Bike> oerjan: optional
04:30:43 <Bike> the notes the notes the notes
04:31:03 * oerjan doesn't remember what this is about.
04:32:02 <oerjan> I made the mistake of upgrading to Windows 8.1. There's apparently a bug that means you can no longer turn off spelling autocorrection.
04:32:42 <Bike> "not very definitely significant from the statistical point of view (p=0.08)" i'm never gonna get tired of this
04:41:14 <oerjan> Fortunately it doesn't affect pasting from gvim.
04:42:13 <oerjan> Still has all the red squiggles though.
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05:38:22 <zzo38> Will they fix that buf?
05:38:31 <zzo38> Do you know how to workaround somehow?
05:39:11 <oerjan> well my current workaround is to write in vim and paste.
05:39:34 <zzo38> But is there some workaround involving editing the registry or the files dealing with spelling corrections?
05:40:15 <oerjan> i think windows 8.1 is too new for the fixes to have shown up.
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05:40:51 <oerjan> the thing is, in the settings it _looks_ like the setting has been changed, but programs (apps and IE) ignore it.
05:41:52 <zzo38> Did you look in the registry?
05:41:53 <oerjan> there was an old method someone gave for disabling it in 8.0, which involved renaming the dll's. although i also saw a comment that this slowed things down.
05:42:23 <oerjan> no i haven't. i'm not going to mess with things without guidance.
05:42:41 <zzo38> Looking in it, without changing it, shouldn't damage it.
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05:58:25 <kmc> so exponent
05:59:52 <Bike> different people i know get into memes at different times and it freaks me out, man
06:00:06 <kmc> Bike: pretty sure I'm on the trailing edge
06:00:15 <Bike> for this one yeah
06:00:22 <Bike> i mean hey that's respectable
06:02:53 <kmc> is it though
06:03:25 <Bike> well. no. it's not. i don't respect it
06:03:33 <Bike> i respect no meme!
06:22:25 <oerjan> some day we're going to hit a word in this way that's a grievous insult in hebrew.
06:26:46 <shachaf> many doge at the park today
06:27:20 <shachaf> did they all have internal monologue in broken english and rainbow comic sans
06:27:20 <kmc> did you play with a doge
06:27:51 <shachaf> and no one was playing mölkky
06:28:37 <shachaf> though people were throwing balls
06:29:06 <shachaf> dogs become unreasonably enthusiastic and excited about balls being thrown
06:29:14 <shachaf> have i even ever been that excited about anything
06:29:26 <shachaf> i am a failure compared to doge :'(
06:30:37 <shachaf> http://web.stagram.com/p/521355034383093782_31874355
06:30:44 <oerjan> no mölkky today, my doge has run away...
06:30:53 <shachaf> looks like a recipe for disaster imo
06:31:24 <HackEgo> This google api no longer exists.
06:32:15 <oerjan> ask tswett_q i think he was all about finnish dogs once
06:35:06 <shachaf> perhaps there are no finnish dogs
06:35:18 <oerjan> if you slur shachaf just enough it can sound like en:shut up or perhaps even no:kjeften which basically means the same thing.
06:35:23 <shachaf> that would explain the invention of mölkky
06:36:23 <oerjan> shachaf: well that stagram link _did_ seem to claim their existence.
06:36:45 <shachaf> maybe they were imported later
06:37:05 <oerjan> (i have been pointed out that orja is finnish for slave, although i don't think they use that as a slur much)
06:38:29 <zzo38> Do you know "Psychological JuJitsu" card game? I have implemented it in ifMUD.
06:39:36 <shachaf> oerjan: perhaps a dog exists but is unique
06:40:10 <oerjan> shachaf: the link had two.
06:40:40 <shachaf> here's a search result for «mölkky koira»: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zdMZ7N1U7I
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06:47:44 <oerjan> that had a severe shortage of mölkky, and i didn't pay attention to whether where any dogs since koira was clearly part of the band name.
06:48:20 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karri_Koira
06:48:47 <kmc> "Heini Strand of Rumba gave the album four out of five stars saying that the album is great material for making out"
06:49:45 <shachaf> kmc: that is, after all, the primary purpose of an album
06:49:57 <shachaf> what was the other star for
06:52:02 <oerjan> the second star should have been *-where
06:53:05 <oerjan> or it could have been the more elegant, yet even more confusing *-+
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07:19:39 <Bike> the mozilla developer guide thing is super helpful
07:19:53 <Bike> <script type="text/javascript"><!--//--><![CDATA[//><!--Blabla.extend(MyFramework.settings, { "basePath": "/" });//--><!]]></script>
07:19:56 <Bike> fucking art imo
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07:24:11 <kmc> shachaf: what do you think about making out
07:25:31 <Bike> "JavaScript event handling is single-threaded, so handlers are executed sequentially." is this like, actually true
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07:26:04 <kmc> in existing browser engines all JavaScript (including iframes) runs in a single thread and alternates with layout work on the same thread
07:26:11 <kmc> (all for a single tab, I mean)
07:26:12 <kmc> which is terrible
07:26:16 <Bike> well i mean, is it required
07:26:20 <kmc> and that's something we're trying to fix with Servo
07:26:29 <kmc> but there are limits to what we can do because it's part of the platform spec
07:26:55 <kmc> Bike: JS doesn't have any kind of thread synchronization primitives built in, so if you allowed concurrent event handlers, there would be no way to make them race-free
07:27:22 <kmc> but anyway there's 15 years worth of legacy javascript code which assumes no concurrency
07:27:25 <Bike> ah, hm... still that seems like a limitation to me. maybe i'm being naive
07:27:44 <kmc> you can now do concurrency in a limited sense, with web workers, but they can't touch the DOM or handle events
07:28:09 <Bike> "Please recall that HTML-tag attribute names are case-insensitive, so oNcLiCk will work same as onClick or onclick" a lot of this advice seems like stuff i should be pretty skeptical of. just like every other time i've learned a programming language :/
07:30:41 <shachaf> kmc: no particular opinions
07:38:24 * kmc usually doesn't have musical accompanyment, though
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07:44:40 <Bike> browsers are so amazing. it almost seems like a shame to have them so internet-oriented
07:45:30 <shachaf> imo browsers should be oriented to writing browsers
07:45:41 <shachaf> "the primary activity browser writers care about"
07:45:50 <kmc> imo write your own browser in HTML/CSS/JS
07:46:03 <Bike> market it as 'web compatible'
07:46:18 <kmc> also <!--//--><![CDATA[//><!--…//--><!]]> really?
07:46:31 <Bike> yeah. (as an example of what not to do)
07:46:36 <kmc> my six language polyglot is more reasonable than that
07:46:50 <Bike> of course as soon as i looked at a less reputable tutorial's source it had exactly that -_-
07:48:21 <shachaf> Bike: wasn't that the only backwards compatible way of doing it
07:48:38 <shachaf> (i think maybe it needs to be on three lines or something, i don't know
07:48:52 <Bike> yeah i didn't feel like doing that.
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08:13:51 <mroman> Bike: isn't it case insensitive in HTML4
08:14:11 <mroman> or it's case insensitive in some browsers but not in others
08:15:12 <Bike> i'd liketo say it's the former but it's probably the latter too somehow
08:15:41 <mroman> google research is useless
08:15:45 <Bike> looks like html is case insensitive but xml is not.
08:15:54 <mroman> everyone seems to have a different opinion about the case sensitivity of attributes
08:16:05 <Bike> well i was looking at w3, so.
08:16:18 <Bike> anyway i was starting from 'oNcLiCk is a really shitty name'
08:16:22 <mroman> onClick works in HTML4 but not in XHtml
08:17:23 <mroman> is called when the user licks the touchscreen
08:30:43 <zzo38> Is there some simple way to wire something to composite video signals to make them appear in grayscale?
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09:19:34 <fizzie> Web Workers and Canvas Proxies.
09:26:47 <mroman> are there approaches on how to compile low-level language to CIL/CLR?
09:27:08 <mroman> specifically the whole pointery stuff
09:28:51 <fizzie> One honking byte[] and pointers as indices to that.
09:29:06 <fizzie> (That's what Emscripten does, to compile C to JS.)
09:29:41 <mroman> but that probably does not work for function pointers?
09:31:00 <mroman> you can probably special treat function pointers
09:31:18 <mroman> unless you use (void*)
09:31:29 <mroman> which would loose the information that it was a function pointer
09:31:48 <fizzie> Speaking from a C perspective, if they're still indices to something, it wouldn't really matter.
09:32:05 <fizzie> You'd need to convert it back to a function pointer for calling, at which point it'd get back that information.
09:33:34 <mroman> but you can't call javascript functions through an adress?
09:33:54 <fizzie> You'd have a table of functions. Function pointers would be indices to that.
09:35:11 <mroman> same for variables probably
09:35:24 <mroman> i.e the address of a local variable
09:35:33 <fizzie> Anyway, if you compiled to a single Java bytecode method, you could use actual opcode offsets -- but that approach has at least two major problems: there's a 64k size limit for a function, and the bytecode verifier is going to insist on all kinds of things hard to satisfy. (I looked at this a bit for a Befunge-to-JVM thing where I wanted to use the native JVM stack as the Befunge stack.)
09:36:32 <mroman> my source language requires you to be able to goto from one function in another
09:36:43 <mroman> which is not really easy to translate to other languages :)
09:36:51 <mroman> because most don't allow that.
09:39:15 <fizzie> It might "work" for the single-JVM-method case (since you can do local jumps there), assuming you can satisfy the verifier, which might be tricky. (It e.g. insists that all possible paths to reach a particular instruction must provably have the same stack effect in terms of number of pushes and pops, which really didn't work for the Befunge case.)
09:40:01 <fizzie> (And then there's that size limit.)
09:40:49 <myname> befunge to jvm sounds like an awesome idea
09:41:30 <fizzie> I kind of abandoned the idea when it turned out the native stack wouldn't work, because using a separate object for the stack sounded so lame.
09:46:45 <mroman> I could disect stuff into functions
09:46:54 <mroman> i.e a label would be another function
09:47:08 <mroman> like int main() { .... foo: ... } would split into
09:55:07 <fizzie> Assuming arbitrary jumps, then you'll need some kind of a thing to handle the otherwise-growing stack.
09:55:17 <fizzie> (There's no tail calls in the JVM.)
09:56:41 <fizzie> There's always trampolining, of course.
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10:20:43 <mroman> jumping to another function is a really bad idea anyway
10:21:18 <mroman> the only reason it is even possible is because I did not want to introduce scoping rules
10:21:23 <mroman> so labels are globally visible
10:21:43 <mroman> but I just might say jumping into another function is copmiler dependant behaviour
10:23:16 <mroman> because that's what it actually is anyway
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12:04:20 <mroman> when exactly is extern needed for C functions
12:04:35 <mroman> you can refer to C functions in other compilation units without extern
12:04:53 <mroman> i.e -c foo.o ... -c foo1.o and just link it together
12:11:45 <fizzie> It's the default for functions.
12:12:10 <fizzie> "If a declaration of an identifier for a function has no storage-class specifier, its linkage is determined exactly as if it were declared with the storage-class specifier extern."
12:12:39 <fizzie> You do need it for declarations of objects in header files, because otherwise those turn into definitions for each translation unit, and then you've got multiple copies and the linker will complain.
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12:19:40 <fizzie> Oh, I didn't notice the question was specifically for functions. I guess "never", then, since having no storage class specifiers is entirely equivalent.
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12:40:08 <mroman> fizzie: I'm also guessing "never"
12:40:25 <mroman> but I'm not 100% sure there is an edgecase where extern is needed for functions too
12:41:30 <fizzie> I don't think there were any qualifiers for the statement I quoted.
12:46:53 <FireFly> fizzie: wouldn't modifiability of fungespace be a bigger problem for a befunge-to-JVM compiler?
12:48:56 <fizzie> FireFly: Maybe, but that's a problem for a befunge-to-anything compiler and not for a befunge-to-JVM compiler in particular.
12:49:18 <mroman> or where the code is located
12:49:44 <fizzie> (It's possible I was thinking of writing an interpreter, anyway. I don't remember the details, just that I wanted JVM stack == befunge stack.)
12:50:10 <mroman> can't you compile each instruction as a fixed block of code
12:50:14 <mroman> and then replace those blocks
12:50:36 <fizzie> That's essentially a threaded-code interpreter.
12:50:39 <mroman> i.e transfroming the 2D space into a 1D space
12:51:02 <mroman> should be fairly possible
12:51:08 <mroman> maybe a bit inefficient
12:51:17 <myname> mroman: and if you put after the end of a line?
12:52:53 <fizzie> Anyway, you can certainly JIT befunge.
12:53:20 <fizzie> It's just slightly tricky tracking what all needs to be invalidated when the fungespace changes.
12:54:05 <fizzie> (If you treat each instruction as a single block, so that they're easy to replace, you can't e.g. constant-fold across the blocks, which makes the whole act of "compiling" it a bit pointless.)
12:55:52 <fizzie> fungot: Do you have any self-modifying code in you at all, anyway?
12:55:52 <fungot> fizzie: sarahbot, yow")" to make writing a bf interp
12:56:05 <fizzie> (Spoiler: not really, discounting things like ^reload.)
12:56:39 <fizzie> I have somewhere an ahead-of-time Befunge(-to-LLVM, I think) compiler that's complete enough to compile and run fungot.
12:56:39 <fungot> fizzie: if they meant it seriously, though. ( foo 1) to have x in the second
12:57:13 <fizzie> (Doesn't do any tracking of fungespace modification.)
12:58:41 <fizzie> Though self-modification is not the only problem for static compilation. You can't necessarily tell the code flow in advance, either, if there's something like &&x in the code.
12:59:02 <fizzie> (That's "read two integers from standard input and set the IP delta to that vector".)
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14:09:49 <Koen_> so I'm trying to compile Chris Pressey's mascarpone interpreter in haskell, using ghc. the error message is " Could not find module `System' It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'.". should I explicitely tell ghc how to include this System module?
14:11:13 <Koen_> nope, doesn't work either
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16:09:06 <ais523> elliott: the only common thread I can see in our latest spambot rash, apart from the content of their posts (which I can't block unless abusefilter starts working again), is that they all claim to be using IE6
16:09:09 <ais523> can we just block IE6? :)
16:09:48 <Bike> jesus, do people still use ie6
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16:10:40 <mroman> fizzie: who needs constant folding anyway
16:10:47 <mroman> my compiler produces for 3 + 5
16:11:10 <mroman> load32 r0, 3; push r0; load32 r0, 5; push r0; pop r1; pop r0; add r0, r0, r1; push r0;
16:11:15 <ais523> Bike: I don't know if the spambots are actually using IE6, or just pretending
16:11:23 <ais523> based on the homogeneity of the user agent, I'd say it's faked
16:12:04 <zzo38> ais523: Then perhaps program it so that if the user agent string specifies IE6, it enables things that won't work if it isn't really IE6
16:12:31 <ais523> zzo38: hmm, interesting, but also probably quite timeconsuming
16:12:59 <zzo38> mroman: What compiler is that? What programming language?
16:17:49 <mroman> zzo38: My pre-bachelor thesis is an developping an imaginary computer architecture
16:18:00 <mroman> and an emulator for that architecture
16:18:26 <mroman> but I came to the point where I did not want to write a line of assembler code anymore
16:18:32 <mroman> so I started writing a complire
16:18:39 <mroman> for my simple language :)
16:18:49 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/va/rlmmu_simple.html <- that language
16:18:51 <zzo38> And it looks like not a very good compiler
16:19:30 <mroman> it's a working compiler
16:19:40 <mroman> it produces code for a stack machine with two registers
16:19:48 <mroman> which my architecture is totally not
16:19:55 <mroman> my arch has 16 registers :)
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16:20:39 <zzo38> Even for a machine with only two registers it looks like a bad code.
16:20:54 <mroman> But I don't have the time to write a sophisticated compiler and emulator
16:21:02 <mroman> so one of them is just quick'n'dirty
16:21:06 <zzo38> Not having constant folding isn't the only problem.
16:21:07 <mroman> it produces working code
16:21:11 <mroman> that's good enough for me
16:21:21 <mroman> it even produces push r0; pop r0; blocks
16:21:32 <mroman> and push r0; pop r1; can be optimizied to mov r1, r0;
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16:22:06 <mroman> zzo38: You are very welcome to write a better compiler
16:22:09 <mroman> you can even target x86
16:22:18 <mroman> That's what I plan to do anyway
16:22:29 <mroman> write an x86 codegen for it
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16:55:20 <zzo38> I wanted to make up some simple computer architecture which is mostly like other ones that GCC already support and can be programmed in a FPGA, and modified to the application in use
16:55:25 <mroman> zzo38: Writing a gcc backend would have been too much work
16:56:05 <zzo38> mroman: Yes, I know that is why I wanted to make one up that GCC can already compile into
16:57:52 <zzo38> I was thinking of ARM2 but maybe there is something better
17:00:17 <zzo38> Many implementations seem to be optimized and might make it difficult to predict how many clock cycles some sequence of instructions requires. If removing such thing would make it too slow, one work-around is to add an instruction to wait until a number of clock cycles have passed since the previous marker.
17:07:20 <mroman> that sound's like a reasonable mnemonic
17:07:40 <zzo38> Such thing looks like long to me
17:07:57 <mroman> ULESSTHANOREQUAL foo, bar
17:08:00 <ais523> Verity uses <= for unsigned less-than-or-equal-to, +<= for the signed version
17:08:02 <mroman> that just looks crazy as fuck
17:08:12 <ais523> but then, its operators are made out of sequences of punctuation marks
17:08:49 <zzo38> Not bad, having a separate unsigned and signed operators, if you aren't specifying by the type like how C does.
17:09:16 <ais523> zzo38: I decided separate signed and unsigned operators made more sense than separate signed and unsigned types
17:09:42 <zzo38> ais523: Ah, OK. What is that though?
17:10:08 <ais523> zzo38: some operators like + and - use two's complement in Verity so it doesn't matter whether they're signed or unsigned
17:10:13 <ais523> and it doesn't have division
17:10:26 <zzo38> Yes, that makes sense for + and -
17:10:37 <ais523> for relational operators I have separate signed/unsigned values
17:10:49 <ais523> mroman: mostly non-eso language I was paid to work on for my job
17:10:52 <ais523> as in, I was paid to invent it
17:11:02 <ais523> http://www.veritygos.org/
17:11:12 <mroman> I went for seperate signed/unsigned operators too
17:11:18 <zzo38> Why did you need to invent it?
17:11:21 <mroman> since I don't have the type system
17:11:29 <mroman> to distinguish it else
17:12:05 <mroman> http://www.veritygos.org/documentation
17:12:17 <mroman> too lazy for real html ;P?
17:12:22 <ais523> zzo38: because there were no variants of Algol 60 specialised for reconfigurable hardware, oddly enough
17:12:29 <ais523> mroman: I'm not responsible for the website
17:12:47 <ais523> they asked for documentation in plaintext
17:12:53 <ais523> I wrote it in markdown, on the basis that it looks much the same
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17:13:10 <ais523> IMO the only good use for markdown is to write markup in a way that looks like plaintext
17:13:31 <zzo38> ais523: That is not bad, now you can load it in any program even if not having web browser, but you can also convert it to HTML if you prefer.
17:14:21 <mroman> can you dumb it down for me
17:14:41 <mroman> a language that describes hardware?
17:14:58 <mroman> or what do you mean by hardware synthesis?
17:15:32 <ais523> mroman: it's a language designed to be similar to the sort of functional languages people normally use to program software, but it's restricted such that it compiles into hardware well
17:15:51 <ais523> whereas most hardware development's done using languages like VHDL that are very unfamiliar
17:16:04 <zzo38> Ah, that seems like a proper reason to me.
17:16:41 <zzo38> (I still think that isn't the best way to program hardware, but it could be helpful if you want to write an emulator for the hardware, maybe)
17:18:02 <zzo38> There are a lot of other hardware programming languages too although I don't really think any of them are perfect so I tried to make up a new one, too
17:18:58 <mroman> you mean like brainfuck and verilog?
17:19:29 <zzo38> Brainfuck isn't hardware programming language. There is Verilog, there is also VHDL, and several others (see Wikipedia), and I partially made up a documentation for my own.
17:19:59 <mroman> let me grab me brainfuck 2 vhdl thingy
17:20:02 <mroman> if I can still find it
17:21:21 <zzo38> My own hardware programming language is http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/hwpl.txt
17:21:36 <zzo38> There are still some things missing; if you know about hardware programming maybe you can help to fix it?
17:24:05 <mroman> that's as much as there is :)
17:24:31 <zzo38> Do you know anything about designing it with discrete logic components?
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17:24:51 <zzo38> I know some things about Verilog and find some things it has are not very good for hardware design
17:24:56 <mroman> You mean like FlipFlops, XOR, AND Gates etc?
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17:26:16 <mroman> That's what I'd actually expect from a VHDL/verilog programmer
17:26:26 <mroman> that he knows how he could synthesize basic vhdl programm by hand
17:26:48 <zzo38> Do you understand this document of HWPL?
17:27:27 <myname> someone should make a prolog2vhdl compiler
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17:28:10 <mroman> zzo38: I haven't completely read it yet
17:28:14 <mroman> but from fastly reading through it
17:28:22 <mroman> looks understandable :)
17:28:34 <zzo38> Do you notice anything that might be wrong with it?
17:29:56 <mroman> what do you understand under "running result"?
17:30:25 <zzo38> Can you be specific?
17:31:06 <zzo38> In a function, the "running result" is initially an empty vector.
17:32:30 <zzo38> I am not sure how I should make that more clear in the documentation.
17:33:45 <zzo38> Is there anything that could be improved, is missing, etc?
17:34:35 <mroman> This HWPL is not like VHDL, right?
17:34:48 <mroman> You don't program the hardware on the level like you do in VHDL?
17:34:55 <zzo38> Correct, it isn't VHDL or Verilog or whatever.
17:35:11 <zzo38> I don't actually know much of VHDL, but I know some things about Verilog.
17:35:20 <mroman> So you build components and wire them together
17:35:26 <mroman> and wait for raising edges etc
17:35:29 <zzo38> There are some similarities to Verilog but not quite.
17:35:58 <mroman> although you do have a DELAY function
17:36:11 <zzo38> In HWPL you would write what is connected to what and what registers are updated on rising edges and so on, or write macros that will create these things for you.
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17:36:40 <zzo38> At runtime, the only type is a bit vector; other types only exist at compiletime.
17:37:32 <zzo38> FOR loops and stuff are executed at compile time; so are IF, LET, SPLIT, and so on.
17:37:54 <zzo38> (If you want run time conditions you need to use WHEN instead of IF.)
17:40:00 <mroman> I assume DELAY is only for simulation?
17:40:56 <zzo38> Unlike in Verilog, no. A hardware compiler may also move things around so that things have higher or lower delays, or provide an error message or warning message if it cannot use the given delay.
17:41:44 <mroman> I'd expect the hardware compiler to calculate timings etc
17:41:58 <mroman> I.e you obviously can't clock stuff as high as you want :)
17:42:22 <mroman> or your flipflops will get meta-stable :)
17:43:28 <zzo38> Well, yes, there is an inherent delay, but if the externally visible delay is shorter than the fastest clock speed (which might depend on the program) then it is OK anyways.
17:45:41 <zzo38> The DELAY function is provided if you want to make it slower or if you want to force certain hardware constraints such as in order to more accurately emulate other hardware, or possibly to avoid race conditions in a few cases.
17:45:42 <mroman> TRIGGER only works for rising edges
17:46:00 <zzo38> mroman: Yes. If you want falling, put ~ in front of the signal.
17:46:52 <mroman> I can use expressinos there
17:47:34 <zzo38> Expressions are allowed in most places where you can have a vector.
17:48:16 <mroman> Do I have to declare POWER and GROUND?
17:48:26 <mroman> That's usually something you don't really worry about.
17:49:02 <zzo38> No, it is usually not necessary.
17:49:29 <zzo38> (Some compilers might not even support it.)
17:49:42 <zzo38> (It is provided in case it is necessary for your design.)
17:50:06 <zzo38> I have fixed that part of the documentation now.
17:51:11 <zzo38> (One reason it might be necessary is if you are declaring an expansion cartridge pinout and the power/ground have to be in certain positions.)
17:52:24 <mroman> maybe add a CASE statement?
17:53:59 <zzo38> Maybe it might help, yes (currently there is a ROM CASE statement but not a macro CASE statement).
17:56:13 <zzo38> (It would conflict but maybe renaming the ROM CASE statement to something else might help?)
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18:01:49 <mroman> IF in VHDL afaik is sequentiel
18:02:47 <mroman> or it does not matter at least
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18:07:19 <zzo38> Well, HWPL has no such procedural blocks at run time like Verilog and VHDL have.
18:07:30 <zzo38> Everything runs in parallel.
18:07:49 <zzo38> (Macros are sequential, but they are expanded at compile time.)
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18:14:45 <zzo38> Note that something like MODULE MAIN ZZZZ1001: NOOP; is a valid (but useless) HWPL program having eight I/O pins.
18:16:17 <^v> wolfmitchell wanted to make a language that would make slapping a dick on a keyboard valid
18:16:20 <zzo38> It always outputs 1001 on the low four pins.
18:16:28 <^v> i would wonder how this would work
18:16:35 <^v> was thinking something like path
18:16:35 <zzo38> ^v: I don't know how, either.
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18:28:28 <Sgeo> My dad just told me to become a doctor and said something about a shortage of competent doctors
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18:31:18 <Sgeo> Medical doctor
18:32:19 <kmc> http://img6.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-married-to-the-sea-auto-221896.jpeg
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18:35:44 <Sgeo> Well, if most other doctors are less competent, and I don't pick up medical knowledge, I'm effectively trusting my life to incompetent people
18:35:56 <Sgeo> Whereas if I become a doctor, I save lives possibly including my own
18:36:29 <zzo38> If you are competent, then yes.
18:37:35 <Sgeo> I think my dad's assuming that I would be competent
18:38:13 <Slereahphone> You'd see a lot more doctors smoking medicinal joints otherwise
18:39:54 <Sgeo> But you could look at your own charts, and at loves ones' charts, and see whether doctors are treating you and your loved ones correctly
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18:42:19 <zzo38> Does their handwriting get worse too?
18:43:14 <Slereahphone> I wonder if bad handwriting is something they pick up at med school
18:43:45 <zzo38> I read somewhere that someone think everyone who writes too many things in one day will have bad handwriting
18:43:46 <kmc> I think medicine involves a lot of tricky judgement calls; there's not an obvious right answer in every situation
18:44:08 <kmc> and so second-guessing your doctor when you're emotionally close to the situation could do as much harm as good
18:44:41 <kmc> in most cases you can't just look at a chart and be like "hmm, yes, this doctor is an 8/10"
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18:45:15 <kmc> you should all read http://www.amazon.com/Better-A-Surgeons-Notes-Performance/dp/0312427654
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19:26:21 <shachaf> kmc: before or after The Illuminatus! Trilogy?
19:31:08 <fizzie> You interleave the words.
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20:13:57 <kmc> shachaf: after I expect
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20:44:20 <JM563> Well...wellcome Sporcklem
20:44:20 <Bike> `welcome JM563
20:44:25 <HackEgo> JM563: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:46:46 <JM563> Well Bike, your soul is not quiet, do you have any topic on mine?
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20:49:59 <JM372> Sorry Bike, I am new.
20:51:51 <JM372> Would you like the astrolgoy as topic?
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20:54:02 <zzo38> Sorry? What astrology?
20:54:06 <zzo38> Did you read the esolang wiki?
20:54:48 <JM372> Stellar astrology, no tropical or sideral...Stellar astrology.
20:55:54 <JM372> Okay...do you know tropical and sideral astrology?
20:55:55 <Sgeo> I vaguely remember some kind of distincting between days
20:56:07 <zzo38> Yes I do know that.
20:56:07 <HackEgo> JM372: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:56:24 <Sgeo> There's the day as in rotation of Earth, vs Sun being at the same point, due to the revolution around the sun
20:56:24 <zzo38> As far as I know tropical/sidereal just refers to how the zero longitude point is determined.
20:56:36 <Sgeo> Or am I imaginign things?
20:56:42 <Sgeo> But that's astronomy, not astrology
20:57:15 <Sgeo> Almost posited a definition of 'astrology' that would count ST:TNG as astrology
20:57:28 <zzo38> Sgeo: Are you thinking of day vs sidereal day or something?
20:57:32 <JM372> Okay Zzo...the Setellar astrology works withe the planets; and also, with some stars from the constellations.
20:57:34 <Sgeo> zzo38: I think so
20:58:14 <zzo38> JM372: Which stars? I have Astrolog installde which can calculate the positions of some stars (it can also calculate the positions of all constellations, but not all stars they include)
20:58:35 <zzo38> And you say it works with the planets and stars, but in what way? That doesn't help.
20:59:17 <JM372> Okay Zzo...www.astro.com can do so too...but the point is that you need to use in your personal astrology chart the principals stars.
20:59:35 <JM372> So you can get one close idea about your complity astrological situation.
21:00:10 <JM372> Waht is your ascending Zzo?
21:00:13 <Sgeo> Astronomy: Related to the stars and is real. Astrology: Related to the stars and is fictional
21:00:52 <zzo38> JM372: I don't really do that kind of stuff I am not so superstitious, although I know a few things about it. To know my ascending I would have to know the time of my birth, and I never really tried to figure that out.
21:01:02 <JM372> No Sego, no the Stellar Astrology...The Stellar astrology use the astronomic information too.
21:01:36 <JM372> Okay Zzo....thanks for to be honest...
21:01:53 <zzo38> I do have the horoscope chart for the current date/time/location on my screen at this time, and the list of stars it can chart.
21:02:01 <zzo38> Can you name the stars? Maybe then I know what you mean.
21:02:42 <JM372> Zzo...I will like to, but at least, I need your birt time and date to give your a clear example
21:03:13 <zzo38> Just use the current date and time. I don't know my birth time and do not want to give the date (anyways, if you want to know ascendant, location is important too).
21:04:01 <JM372> But according with your honesty you should be Virgo ascendant.
21:05:11 <zzo38> OK you can assume that if you want; like I said I don't know my birth time.
21:05:13 <JM372> Are you in USA or Ingland Zoo? Because you can get a copy of your birth certificate by Internet
21:05:58 <zzo38> Actually I think I can find my birth certificate somewhere around here, and I can then calculate it.
21:06:13 <JM372> It is okay Zzo...no problem....
21:07:30 <zzo38> Oops I forgot to disable daylight saving time in this program, now I did.
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21:07:48 <JM372> But like Sgeo said, we need to use the effects of the stars for to make a complity astrological chart.
21:08:23 <zzo38> I can easily include several stars in the chart in this program. Which stars do you mean, though?
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21:11:53 <JM383> Sorry, but I was booted
21:11:59 <zzo38> (And I live in Canada)
21:12:11 <JM383> I think I need a nickname for to work in
21:13:46 <JM383> Okay Zoo, but you seems to be a person very honest, so it could means that your ascending sign in Virgo
21:14:12 <zzo38> Yes, I said we can make that assumption if you want to. How many degrees though?
21:14:31 <JM383> Very strict person, but also honest.
21:15:09 <kmc> a good man and thorough
21:15:20 <zzo38> (Make up a number arbitrarily if you don't know; if I am to set a time of day for this chart the degrees will also be needed)
21:15:21 <JM383> The idea is to work with correct information Zzo...I can asumption what ever....but your birth time is very importan
21:15:35 <zzo38> Again, *I don't know*.
21:16:02 <zzo38> Use data for a fictional character if you have to!
21:16:24 <JM383> It is okay Zzo...When you get so, we can talk more about your good personality.
21:16:56 <zzo38> OK, I think I might be able to find my birth certificate around here somewhere.
21:16:58 <ais523> `unicode DEGREE SYMBOL
21:17:04 <JM383> At least Zzo...do you know your solar sign?
21:17:10 <zzo38> I do not wish to reveal my personal information, although I can calculate the positions on computer.
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21:17:36 <zzo38> JM383: Yes, I do know that, although I wish not to reveal it. (It isn't close to the edge of the sign enough that the time of day would be needed.)
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21:18:22 <zzo38> If you tell me what stars to plot, though, I can tell the computer to plot those stars.
21:18:25 <JM383> It is okay Zzo...I understand your point.
21:19:54 <JM383> Zzo... in www.astro.com, they are usign some stars in the charts....but try to use the most important stars of the 12 constelacions...At least, the most shiny stars.
21:20:17 <ais523> `unicode LOWERCASE THETA
21:20:20 <zzo38> There are 88 constellations.
21:20:23 <ais523> `unicode LOWERCASE GREEK LETTER THETA
21:20:29 <ais523> this thing needs fuzzy matching
21:20:42 <ais523> `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER THETA
21:20:44 <JM383> Beside Zzo...use the sideral astrology, it works much beter than the tropical one.
21:20:49 <zzo38> (There are the 12 constellations that the signs are named after, and one more which is also on the ecliptic though)
21:20:58 <JM383> Zzo...the zodical constelations.
21:21:08 <zzo38> JM383: OK. What reference should be used for ayanamsha then?
21:21:26 <zzo38> (This program defaults to Fagan-Bradley)
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21:22:08 <JM383> Okay Fagan-Bradley?
21:22:26 <zzo38> OK, well, I have it on the screen in sidereal Fagan-Bradley mode.
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21:23:21 <JM383> So, if in your progam you can use all the stars, tray at least to use the more brights and try to see what star is close to your sun.
21:24:00 <JM383> to your sun and in conjuntion with the house or sector I.
21:25:11 <JM383> So, this will gives to you one close idea about your physical personality (Ascendant) and spritual personality (Solar sign)
21:27:38 <zzo38> I have used the fourteen brightest stars (according to a list in Wikipedia).
21:28:50 <zzo38> (in average apparent magnitude)
21:29:18 <JM383> It is okay...14 stras are good...
21:29:50 <zzo38> None of them are in conjunction with the Sun.
21:29:55 <JM383> More than 14 will be much better, but it is better
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21:30:13 <JM383> And in your solar sign?
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21:31:11 <zzo38> Just one is in my solar sign (using Fagan-Bradley).
21:31:49 <JM383> Okay...but do you know the characteristic of this star?
21:32:23 <zzo38> What is a "characteristic" of a star?
21:33:59 <JM383> Okay...for ejemple...Antares in Scorpio...this mean that you need to work in this encarnation with your inner personality, making deep and big changes or....you will be a bit violent
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21:34:05 <JM383> Can you get the idea?
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21:34:56 <zzo38> Kind of. I still don't know what a characteristic of a star means.
21:35:36 <JM383> The magnitude and color of the stars, it shows your a more or lees the characteristic.
21:36:23 <JM383> attribute...Sorry Zzo...I have too many years I do not use the english.
21:38:02 <zzo38> Ah, OK. Well, I do have the magnitude and color of the stars, I can look it up in Wikipedia just fine. But why do you want the color and magnitude? Certainly I know the color of the star is related to its temperature, and stuff like that, but I don't know what you are trying to do with them.
21:38:13 <JM383> But the principal stars are the ascendant, solar sign, moon sign, fate sign and couple sign.
21:38:16 <ais523> JM383: do you understand what this channel's for?
21:38:42 <JM383> Okay...good question.
21:39:05 <ais523> which reminds me, I thought up a new BF Joust strategy last night
21:39:12 <ais523> but I don't have the time to write it into a program right now
21:39:14 <JM383> Do you know to work the colors? I mean, do you know that are the attribute of each color?
21:39:20 <zzo38> JM383: ais523 does make a good point. You should look at the esolang wiki if you want to understand most of what we write here.
21:39:43 <zzo38> JM383: I don't know what "to work the colors" means.
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21:40:20 <ais523> JM383: what I'm worried about, really, is a) this channel isn't actually about astrology, b) zzo38 is probably the only person here who is interested in astrology, and he doesn't know what you're talking about
21:40:22 <ais523> thus it's probably wrong
21:40:25 <ais523> in addition to being offtopic
21:40:42 <JM383> Okay Zzo...each colors got some attributes.
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21:41:28 <JM383> So we can not talk about astrology?
21:41:55 <ais523> the `welcome has the appropriate channel in
21:41:56 <zzo38> Well, I did find "Stars in astrology" in Wikipedia. I don't really care much about where all the planets are at my birth; I am more interested in the here and now.
21:42:01 <HackEgo> JM383: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:42:07 <ais523> that's why you've been welcomed three times already
21:42:09 <zzo38> But yes it is offtopic.
21:42:21 <JM383> Ha...okay Ais, please pardon me for, but I was looking for a topic.
21:42:25 <zzo38> (Many offtopic things are sometimes discussed in here, but you still ought to learn what is ontopic)
21:42:47 <ais523> or to put it another way, offtopic conversation is more tolerated from people who participate in the ontopic conversations
21:42:53 <zzo38> (In order to learn what is the interests too, since astrology isn't much of an interest.)
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21:43:15 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, that is anther way to put it too; good idea.
21:43:24 <mroman> not unless there's a language that depends on astrological constellation
21:43:35 <ais523> mroman: we could invent one
21:43:39 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gravity is the closest
21:43:50 <mroman> we can always invent eso languages :)
21:43:56 <zzo38> mroman: Actually yes I did write in "List of ideas" something about that!
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21:44:10 <zzo38> Maybe it can be done, somehow.
21:44:30 <mroman> I figure astrological constellations can be pre-calculated somehow
21:44:56 <zzo38> Positions of planets, stars, etc can be calculated accurately for past and future using ephemeris.
21:45:01 <mroman> then you could cheat and set the system time to a specific value :(
21:45:24 <mroman> trusted computing stuff
21:45:29 <mroman> that prevents you from doing so
21:45:52 <zzo38> (Really the only thing I can think of is something similar to Wait, although I wanted to think of something more interesting and different than that.)
21:47:11 <JM383> Well...pardon me for to be out-topic.
21:47:42 <mroman> Everything is on topic as long as you invent a language for it
21:47:50 <zzo38> A more complicated thing would also have an actual program in addition to that, and would allow certain events to change the parameters of the horoscope (house system, ayanamsha, harmonic factor, etc) and so on.
21:48:20 <zzo38> mroman: Maybe you can make something related to fengshui too. After all there are a lot of unusual ideas!
21:48:46 <mroman> Are there any papers about empirically measuring the feng shui level of a user?
21:49:13 <mroman> maybe through blood, finger print, electrodes
21:50:36 <JM383> thanks for your time and again, pardon me for.
21:51:10 <mroman> I'm sure I can make one up
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21:52:17 <zzo38> I don't know if Society for Scientific Exploration has any; they do try to write scientific papers relating to telepathy and astrology and so on.
21:52:56 <njm> Linux tptp.cc 2.6.32-358.6.2.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Thu May 16 20:59:36 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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21:53:10 <utopian> Linux ultra30.tptp.cc 3.10.7-gentoo-r1 #1 PREEMPT Sat Nov 2 19:03:59 EDT 2013 sparc64 sun4u TI UltraSparc II (BlackBird) GNU/Linux
21:54:44 <zzo38> About fengshui, I know it uses various different "schools" of fengshui, and the oldest one is called "form school", which is the only one I think has some partial validity and reasonableness, from what I can tell.
22:02:22 <zzo38> SSE does have a paper titled "How to Reject Any Scientific Manuscript". It also has some titles I do not understand, such as "Phenomenology of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Use: A Thematic Analysis".
22:03:11 <zzo38> It does have one title which does look like something I have thought about in the past: "Ockhams Razor and Its Improper Use".
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22:03:59 <kmc> DMT's a hell of a drug
22:04:39 <copumpkin> I still haven't tried it outside of ayahuasca
22:05:00 <kmc> deprived / depraved
22:05:05 <utopian> https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/319595_1585878742417_31179844_n.jpg
22:05:08 <utopian> DMT I made a few years back
22:05:10 <kmc> I haven't tried DMT either, but I did take 5-MeO-DMT
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22:06:46 <tswett_w> The nick I use when I'm actually here and paying attention.
22:07:03 <tswett_w> Self-solving multi-king chess problems.
22:08:21 <zzo38> What rules are used with multi-kings?
22:08:22 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit).
22:08:33 <tswett_w> A move is legal only if at the end of it, none of your kings are in check.
22:08:42 -!- Koen_ has joined.
22:09:10 <zzo38> (Different chess variants with multiple kings use different rules.)
22:09:34 <zzo38> I don't know if it is Turing-complete with unlimited board sizes possibly?
22:09:59 * Koen_ wonders if zzo38 is talking about chess being turing-complete
22:10:06 <tswett_w> Yeah, an easy-seeming question is whether or not it's Turing-complete with an infinite board and infinitely many pieces.
22:10:17 <tswett_w> A more interesting question, perhaps, is whether or not it's Turing-complete with only finitely many pieces.
22:10:40 <zzo38> Yes, is it? I don't know that answer either.
22:12:19 <tswett_w> It seems pretty hard to constrain pieces to move in only way. It's only obvious how to do this with the pawn. If there aren't any enemy pieces around, the pawn can only move forward.
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22:22:33 <kmc> self-transforming machine elves, are they turing complete
22:23:45 <tswett_w> I can't think how you'd do any kind of computation at all with SSMKCPs.
22:24:21 <Taneb> tswett_w, but Wang tiles are turing-complete and you can't do computation with them
22:24:43 <kmc> you can't?
22:24:48 <kmc> por que no
22:24:54 <Taneb> kmc, no, they're just tiles
22:25:02 <tswett_w> I can't think how you'd represent any kind of computation at all with SSMKCPs.
22:25:10 <Taneb> Also, I'm going to bed now
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22:25:47 <tswett_w> I"m reminded of a C program containing this line:
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22:25:57 <tswett_w> "while (x --> 0) { // x goes to 0"
22:26:56 <oerjan> now i'm reminded of continuous brainfuck
22:27:12 <oerjan> or whatever if was called.
22:27:37 <oerjan> running a program required solving differential equations.
22:28:20 <oerjan> basically + and - adjusted a cell infinitesimally.
22:28:44 <oerjan> i have a feeling oklopol was involved.
22:29:52 <kmc> we should have a monthly Least Boring BF Derivative prize
22:30:00 <kmc> also "derivative" heh
22:30:10 <oerjan> <Sgeo> My dad just told me to become a doctor and said something about a shortage of competent doctors <-- are you ben from darths & droids.
22:30:21 <kmc> no hes Sgeo from the internet
22:30:24 <Sgeo> I haven't read Darth & Droids
22:30:48 <oerjan> kmc: that's even _more_ implausible!
22:31:16 <tswett_w> Is that that comic strip that parodies Star Wars I by presenting it as a D&D campaign?
22:31:43 <Sgeo> I thought Star Wars I was considered utterly horrible?
22:31:46 <oerjan> well, except they're up to V now.
22:31:59 <Sgeo> I've only seen IV so fa
22:32:06 <Sgeo> And I was half asleep
22:32:09 <kmc> IV, II, III, V, VI
22:32:22 <Sgeo> It seemed a bit cheesy
22:32:25 <pikhq> IV is the worst of the OT by far.
22:32:35 <Sgeo> I thought Machete was IV V II III VI
22:32:39 <oerjan> V is the only one i've seen in a genuine cinema, although i've picked up parts of I on tv.
22:32:41 <kmc> pikhq: yeah, I couldn't wait to graduate to Operating Thetan level V
22:32:51 <pikhq> Not coincidentally the only one directed by Lucas.
22:33:24 <oerjan> Sgeo: one of the accomplishments of darths & droids is that they made the most hated character in I look likeable.
22:33:33 <shachaf> kmc: Sgeo is from the internet?
22:33:34 <Sgeo> oerjan: sounds fun
22:33:51 <Sgeo> I read a novelization of I, come to think of it
22:33:54 <Sgeo> From Anakin's POV
22:34:17 <Sgeo> I think as a kid I've read a lot of novelizations
22:34:31 <Sgeo> I keep being surprised by the concept of Kenan and Kel as a TV show
22:37:07 <kmc> Kenan made the move up to SNL
22:38:02 <kmc> Kel disappeared from society and lives in a cabin in the woods with Grothendieck
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22:40:22 <Sgeo> This music I'm listening to is somewhat inappropriate for a hellish world with superpowers, yet it's now associated with it indelibly in my mind
22:40:53 <ais523> tswett_w: you can trap bishops behind pawn chains of their own-colored pawns
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22:41:29 <oerjan> Sgeo: is it a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapSaccharineWorld ?
22:41:48 <Sgeo> Well, not sure if it's really hellish
22:42:12 <Sgeo> But in the city that's the main focus, gangs of supervillians control the area, I think
22:42:24 <tswett_w> oerjan: I wasn't sure whether you were telling the truth about what Darths & Droids was, so I looked it up.
22:42:42 <tswett_w> So, I gotta go do homework and stuff. See all y'all guys.
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22:43:29 <Sgeo> I want to try a wind tunnel
22:43:55 <kmc> that's awesomely unspecific
22:43:59 <kmc> "i want to try a laser"
22:44:20 <Sgeo> As in, one of those places that's like skydiving but in an indoor cylindrical area
22:44:39 <Sgeo> http://www.funfix.com/Indoor-Wind-Tunnels/New-York/
22:44:44 <Sgeo> http://vimeo.com/72760181
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22:52:24 <Sgeo> Maybe I should try Ada
22:53:15 <Sgeo> Well, I certainly should at least try to get an understanding of its concurrency model
22:53:23 <kmc> you try Ada, I'll try DMT, we can compare notes
22:53:47 <olsner> how is DMT's concurrency model?
22:54:07 <Sgeo> Hmm, Ada distinguishes procedures and functions? Or is that just for protected objects?
22:54:20 <olsner> iirc functions have return values, procedures don't
22:54:34 <kmc> oerjan: a popular model
23:08:07 <fizzie> How is trying Ada remotely like trying an indoor wind tunnel flying place?
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23:09:09 <oerjan> quoth the writing desk
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23:10:18 <kmc> i'm glad zzo38 was around when JM372 showed up
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23:12:10 <kmc> also "JM372" sounds like a synthetic cannabinoid
23:12:24 <zzo38> kmc: Ah. OK. I also didn't know it sounds like a synthetic cannabinoid.
23:13:09 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cannabinoids jesus there are a lot of these now
23:13:57 <kmc> hey kids wanna get high on some 2-Isopropyl-5-methyl-1-(2,6-dihydroxy-4-nonylphenyl)cyclohex-1-ene
23:16:13 <zzo38> Maybe you, but I don't want to.
23:16:53 <kmc> that is fine too
23:17:07 <Sgeo> Get high on dihydrogen monoxide?
23:17:35 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38).
23:17:52 <kmc> aw i hope i didn't scare him off with my #drugz talk
23:18:20 <Sgeo> Of course I click
23:18:31 <kmc> also it's hard to tell whether zzo38 doesn't get most jokes or just has an incredibly deadpan response
23:20:54 <kmc> he definitely seems like someone who does have a sense of humor and it's for him, not for other people
23:21:09 <kmc> which is commendable
23:22:06 <kmc> @tell zzo38 you're great, also sorry if I scared you off with #drugz talk
23:22:33 <Sgeo> DHMO is the primary ingredient in common forms of 'alternative therapy', which has killed numerous people
23:23:01 <kmc> it's true!
23:23:04 <kmc> some might say the only ingredient
23:24:35 <oerjan> Sgeo: it has also been used to kill people outright.
23:26:04 <oerjan> i hear bangladesh has big trouble with increasing DHMO levels.
23:27:31 <oerjan> especially in coastal environments
23:28:15 <oerjan> and the chinese have spent enormous sums of money trying to control it.
23:31:15 <oerjan> even norway has regular overexposure incidents.
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23:49:26 <kmc> whereas the prosperity of the dutch is largely a result of a forward-thinking centuries-old program to remove DMSO from the area around major cities
23:50:12 <kmc> i fucked up that joke bad
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23:50:34 <oerjan> maybe you confused it with MSG, also a problem substance
23:50:47 <tertu> DMSO sounds like it might actually be a bad thing
23:50:52 <kmc> but if you can't laugh at yourself causing people to laugh at you instead of with you, who can you laugh at
23:51:00 <kmc> tertu: it's mostly useful for getting other things (good or bad) through your skin
23:51:07 <kmc> I don't remember how harmful it is by itself
23:51:31 <oerjan> "Although it has some niche medicinal uses it also has significant known side effects. It has been discussed as treatment for cancer and other conditions."