00:00:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:04:38 <oerjan> FireFly: so, 257 actually.
00:12:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:12:47 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:17:29 -!- blop has joined.
00:18:08 -!- blop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:18:25 -!- blop has joined.
00:18:52 <blop> boo ! I'm a ghoooooost
00:19:53 <blop> what is this chan about ?
00:19:56 <blop> programmation ?
00:20:03 <HackEgo> blop: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:20:27 <Bike> so, yeah, programming.
00:22:34 <kmc> it's about designing programming languages which are useless on purpose rather than by accident
00:22:57 <blop> That what I'm seeing, it seems fun :)
00:23:07 <shachaf> i don't think they have to be useless
00:23:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
00:24:59 <blop> the fact that to be "esoteric" don't help them to be usefull
00:26:34 <blop> every program should be writted in Brainfuck++ :))
00:28:17 <Sgeo> About the olist:
00:28:19 <Sgeo> "There are some slight changes in color and font rendering from normal, due to the fact that I'm working on a different machine with different versions of all the programs I usually use. I'll try to iron these out as we go forward."
00:33:29 -!- blop has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
00:39:10 -!- sebbu has joined.
00:39:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
00:39:41 -!- sebbu has joined.
00:53:00 <shachaf> oerjan: oh, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ioun_Stone
00:56:13 <Jafet> I have never played tabletop D&D but the rules seem incredibly convoluted and arbitrary
00:56:27 <Bike> they're pretty ok except for grappling.
01:06:25 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:08:43 -!- Chillectual has joined.
01:09:06 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol.
01:12:11 -!- microt has joined.
01:13:52 <Sgeo> Why does The Onion have a crush on Alan Alda
01:25:16 -!- microt has left ("Leaving").
01:35:35 <shachaf> kmc: https://cure53.de/xmas2013/
01:38:52 <ion> The Cubli: a cube that can jump up, balance, and 'walk' http://youtu.be/n_6p-1J551Y
01:40:05 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:57:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:35:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:39:13 -!- ^v has joined.
02:41:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg).
02:42:39 -!- Bike_ has joined.
02:44:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
02:45:21 -!- augur has joined.
02:46:35 <shachaf> kmc: i'm not sure how to get the data. i must be missing something
02:46:42 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
02:46:45 <shachaf> perhaps i'll be sure if i think about it
02:47:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:47:13 -!- augur_ has joined.
02:50:03 <kmc> in the UK, Christmas is known as Crimbo and Santa Claus is known as Crimbo Jones
02:54:18 -!- Chillectual has joined.
02:57:00 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
03:04:28 -!- tromp_ has joined.
03:10:40 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif).
03:30:26 -!- zzo38 has joined.
03:31:44 <zzo38> My IP address has now changed to 24.207.57.25. I will update the DNS when I am able to do so.
03:35:24 <quintopia> does your domain point to your own personal computer at home?
03:35:41 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:36:14 <zzo38> (Well, now it doesn't work, but it will once I fix it)
03:38:56 <quintopia> do you have any github projects zzo38?
03:43:06 <zzo38> I do have some git repositories on repo.or.cz though (but they haven't been updated in a long time)
03:43:13 <ion> http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/1qos6m/meta_why_does_this_subreddit_have_the_css_display/cdf7lr4?context=1
03:45:01 <zzo38> Would the Russian algorithm be better than using the algorithm I have currently used for multiplication of two sixteen-bit numbers?
03:51:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
03:52:13 -!- Bike has joined.
03:57:10 <ion> wat http://www.dilbertfiles.com/
04:00:23 -!- Chillectual has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
04:05:36 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
04:23:25 <ion> Where’s GarfieldFiles?
04:24:55 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
04:41:36 <kmc> http://www.coinion.com/ "UNITED STATES DOLLAR ALMOST DOUBLES IN VALUE IN A SINGLE DAY"
04:42:06 <Bike> "SATOSHI NAKAMOTO REVEALED AS KEANU REEVES" oh hell ye
04:45:12 <ion> kmc: Yeah :-)
04:45:46 <pikhq> "The currency has been losing value for 227 years in a row."
04:46:03 <pikhq> Not actually true...
04:46:17 <pikhq> We've had years of net USD deflation. :)
04:47:12 <Bike> "This is not the first time the currency has seen a fast rise in value. On April 10th this year, it rose over 60% in a single day. However, the fast rises are dangerously deceiving: after each such gain, the currency slowly devalued each time, in what can be described a slow-motion crash." i can't tell if this is seriously supposed to be pro-bitcoin
04:50:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Bye.).
04:50:47 <Bike> like... i don't get the satire here. is the point that giving bitcoins value based on usd trading is silly because like
04:51:08 <kmc> tbh I didn't read the article but the headline made me laugh out loud
04:51:13 <kmc> (often the case with the onion as well)
04:54:43 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:55:18 -!- tromp_ has joined.
05:00:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
05:07:04 <elliott> Bike: pretty sure it's anti-bitcoin
05:08:30 <shachaf> sometimes satire doesn't have to make a strong point in favor of one side but only view things from a different perspective than usual or something
05:10:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:10:36 <Bike> elliott: http://www.coinion.com/2013/12/07/after-bitcoin-congress-also-considering-banning-surgery-and-space-exploration-says-too-complicated/ etc
05:16:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
05:58:38 -!- tromp_ has joined.
06:13:05 -!- nooodl has joined.
06:15:47 <shachaf> 22:14 <echo-area> Hello. I want to learn Haskell, which book do you recommend? I have background of C, Emacs Lisp, Scheme, and Clojure programming
06:15:50 <shachaf> 22:14 <Sgeo> LYAH is popular, but... Scheme and Clojure, you're probably curious about metaprogramming to some extent
06:16:06 <shachaf> Sgeo: i think that's just you
06:16:32 <shachaf> haskell is valuable to learn for reasons not having to do with "metaprogramming"
06:17:04 <Sgeo> Sure, but the question may still come up?
06:22:41 <shachaf> "Me coming from imperative programming was never introduced to backticks in syntax."
06:28:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:33:33 <ion> `run perl -lwe 'print `echo backticks`'
06:33:56 <shachaf> ion: perl isn't imperative enough to forbid backticks
06:43:17 <zzo38> I realized I forgot to mention an illusion I made up, in the most recent recording of Dungeons&Dragons game.
06:47:01 -!- stuntaneous has joined.
06:47:03 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood).
06:47:21 -!- stuntaneous has joined.
07:06:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
07:24:09 -!- FreeFull has quit.
07:27:34 -!- tromp_ has joined.
07:27:44 <zzo38> In this "Unhuman Alliance", there is a vending machine and it sells many kind of items, including a qualitative calculator, a cloak of invisibility to humans, a sign with "Oak: Now is not the time to use that!" written on it, a suitcase, a portable spaceship, a half red and half invisible pill, and you can buy one or two eggs, but buying two eggs costs less than buying only one.
07:28:01 <Bike> what's a qualitative calculator
07:28:41 <zzo38> Bike: I think it is a calculator that can only display "+", "-", and "0". I wouldn't think it is very good.
07:29:35 <zzo38> I don't know how large a vending machine has to be to sell suitcases (or portable spaceships, however that works), either.
07:30:35 -!- carado has joined.
07:42:48 <zzo38> If a hole in a ceiling is blocked by a hovering platform, how should the bottom of the platform be described?
07:43:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:43:57 <Bike> 'there was a shitload of wind coming down'
07:45:11 <kmc> a windload of shit
07:45:44 <zzo38> I mean the appearance of the platform itself (and how it would appear in such a position), and anyways it is able to fly without wind for some reason.
07:46:32 <Bike> there's a hole in the ceiling. with your keen deductive powers, you notice that it is blocked, but with a few hands of leeway
07:46:35 <Bike> i assume you use horse units
07:48:11 <zzo38> Well, I am sorry I made a mistake; it isn't really a hole, but rather the ceiling simply extends much higher so it is another room above with no walls to separate it from the room below (you cannot enter unless you fly or use the hover platform)
07:48:29 <Bike> you see a hole in the see-ling. a few hands above the hole there's some kind of flat expanse. you think you can see miniature people walking upside down on the expanse. they have constructed a small civilization. you wonder what will happen when they build skyscrapers.
07:50:19 <Bike> after some thought, you realize that, small as the upside-down people are - a few millithumbs at most - skyscrapers will be too adversely affected by forces such as turbulence to be constructed, even though at your scale these things don't matter so much. you reflect on how tall you really are.
07:51:43 <Bike> I don't know how tall your characters are.
07:52:31 <zzo38> There aren't any people standing on the bottom part of the hovering platform. Even if there was, it wouldn't work if the platform is coming back down!
07:52:52 <Bike> It would work, you'd just crush them. Good moral quandary for your players.
07:53:15 <zzo38> And anyways characters of different height might come in the room where this is viewed from (the same room containing the vending machine).
07:53:54 <Bike> You see a hole in the ceiling. A few hands above the hole, there is a small flat surface. It's probably a hover platform. You wonder why they don't just hang it from the ceiling with chains or something. You briefly start charting out a potential pulley system to save on magic energy before being interrupted by the vending machine.
07:54:43 <zzo38> I can use something like that perhaps
07:55:02 <Bike> Maybe it actually uses a pulley system. It's not like you can see above the platform. But you're used to magicians being ridiculous and hard to deal with by now. What the heck is a portable rocket?
07:55:05 <zzo38> Although like I said it isn't really a hole
07:55:30 <Bike> I'm not sure I understand what you meant. Does it slope?
07:55:51 -!- farrioth has joined.
07:55:52 <zzo38> It is an adjoining room without any partitions, except that instead of next to it on the ground, it is above.
07:56:18 <Bike> so... how do you see up there?
07:56:29 <Bike> Like is there a door or something.
07:56:42 <Bike> a ceiling-door
07:57:17 <zzo38> No, there is no door, but the actual ceiling is higher than it should be for one room (since the adjoining rooms that are to the north, south, east, west do not have such a high ceiling)
07:59:00 <Bike> This room is much higher than the room you were just in; in fact, it looks to be twice as high. You see rooms adjoining above you. There is no floor, but you can see a hovering platform potentially useful for upper-room-halling. You wonder how you can incorporate all this into your next Octopus of the World game.
07:59:47 <zzo38> And there is actual things in the room above like if someone can fly they can use them, or someone standing on a hovering platform can also use it even if you cannot fly.
08:00:34 <Bike> As you walk into the room, you immediately notice the ceiling. It is higher than the rest of the ceilings you've seen, and also covered in a mural-style still-life of a piece of cheesecake. A cherry on the cake is obscured by a hovering platform.
08:00:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
08:01:10 <Bike> What kind of sick fucker puts a cherry on cheesecake, you think to yourself
08:01:49 <zzo38> Maybe people who like to make cherry cheesecake, will do so.
08:04:20 <Bike> You are filled with dread as you walk into the room. Your eyes inch up and - yes, the room is too tall. After a deep breath, you steal a quick glance straight up - oh thank god, there's a small hovering platform directly above you. But you know this room is going to be hell on your reverse fear of heights.
08:07:57 <Sgeo> ...compile-time unit testing
08:08:07 <Bike> You stop in the room to consider your surroundings. As that hovering platform always been there? You realize Marge must have put it in. Why would she do that? The room was perfectly fine as it was, with the next story's rooms inaccessible. Why can't she understand your design sense? This is why you broke up.
08:11:02 <Bike> The room must be forty hands tall. What the fuck? Why? A platform floats stilly above you and you spit at it. This is fucked.
08:11:13 <Bike> Feel free to stop me when you've got what you need
08:11:47 <zzo38> I will tell you if any of it is seem OK for this purpose, but so far it doesn't
08:13:28 <Bike> The main feature of the room is a platform hovering above you, about as high as the last room's ceiling. The bottom is spiked, with one main "stalactite" hanging down at last three hands. The spikes are colorfully festooned with party streamers and Christmas decorations. You assume that the force keeping them up must be the force keeping the platform itself airborne.
08:16:01 <Bike> A platform hangs above, as ponderous as a pregnant person's breasts. It sways idly, lustily. You know you shall have to conquer it to proceed.
08:16:41 <Bike> Still no good? Can I get some feedback?
08:16:51 <zzo38> Usually the hovering platform is *not* above; it is much closer to the ground so someone can stand on it. It will be above if someone else is using it though.
08:17:14 <Bike> Why'd you start out by asking how to describe the bottom then?
08:17:37 <zzo38> Well, really I should describe both the bottom and the top, actually!
08:17:58 <zzo38> But, it is a MUD, so anyone can try to access it to view them; they are set "examinable" so anyone can view the program if you want to.
08:18:08 <Bike> Frankly I feel you should have given more information if you expected me to be able to write clearly.
08:18:18 <Bike> Well, not clearly, just appropriately.
08:18:19 <zzo38> Probably you are correct.
08:18:53 <Bike> Does the player character have a dead relative?
08:19:24 <shachaf> zzo38: buying two eggs costs less than buying only one in a story by lewis carroll
08:19:26 <zzo38> There may be many characters, so maybe they don't have a dead relative; I don't know if they have a dead relative or not!
08:19:43 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, I know, I have read about that too
08:19:50 <Bike> If they have no dead relatives that implies a lot.
08:20:02 <Bike> I mean, all living things in the real world have a dead relative.
08:20:40 <zzo38> O, then probably they do have some dead relative. (Except for unusual circumstances...)
08:21:11 <Bike> What if they were created by magic, as in the Borges story, "The Circular Ruins"?
08:21:42 <shachaf> Bike: oh, wait, all these descriptions were unrelated?
08:21:48 <shachaf> i was reading this as one continuous story
08:22:04 <Bike> death of the author and all, man.
08:22:08 <shachaf> and also i didn't read the beginning
08:22:13 <shachaf> i thought it was just spontaneous
08:22:28 <Bike> There is no beginning and no end. There is only you, the room, and the platform.
08:22:31 <Bike> (that's another description)
08:23:39 <Bike> The platform is about four hands on a side, a standard Tsblisi elevator model. You note that the secondary thrust has been vandalized by someone named Tina.
08:25:57 <doesthiswork> why is the symbol for bottom _|_ rather than (_|_)?
08:26:08 <Bike> Because that looks like a butt.
08:26:30 <Bike> You pause to examine the platform. You imagine it can be used to go to the higher level, but you have no interest in that right now. There is only Sandwich.
08:26:34 <zzo38> doesthiswork: It isn't supposed to be _|_ that is just the ASCII format of it.
08:27:48 <Bike> A chorus of voices erupt. WELCOME TO THE PLATFORM ROOM, they say. YOU CAN USE THIS PLATFORM TO ASCEND AND DESCEND, BUT ONLY WITHIN THIS ROOM. You examine the platform and imagine that the voices are correct, but you wonder if that too isn't just a delusion brought on by the drug.
08:28:45 <Bike> Since it's a MUD I imagine you'll have to have descriptions for lots of situations, like if a character has ingested a "drug" (actually a nanomachine cocktail, but they don't know that) to induce schizotypal behavior so that they can infiltrate the platform-building cult.
08:29:33 <Bike> Or I mean, they could have taken the drug just for kicks. You can reuse the description.
08:29:52 <Bike> This MUD does have recreational drugs, right?
08:29:56 <zzo38> The MUD isn't made up entirely by myself either, some some areas and items are.
08:30:18 <zzo38> And as far as I know there aren't any drugs, but I didn't see everything so maybe someone did make up such a thing in there too.
08:30:35 <Bike> No harm in planning ahead, then.
08:30:45 <Bike> Vis a vis #drugz.
08:32:46 <Bike> You examine the platform, but you have no particular skill in discerning uses of objects. You guess that it's magical, since it's hovering a bit above the ground, but it's not marked or anything to indicate that. As you stare it jiggles invitingly.
08:34:43 <Bike> Characters may have different skillsets, see.
08:36:05 <zzo38> Ah, OK. Yes maybe some characters might fly, too, in which case you don't need to use such a hovering platform. And some character might have a moldy scroll to teleport into someone else's location (only of the location they happen to be in has "jumpok" flag set, though).
08:36:35 <zzo38> So there can be other skillsets too
08:37:53 <Bike> Sounds complicated.
08:40:15 <Bike> You can't help but scoff at the platform. You remember when you were a trainee, and had to use these platforms to get around. They were so slow and always breaking down. You hop in the air a bit, just to mock the memory represented before you.
08:43:50 <Bike> You consider the platform before you, and in return it considers you. Without asking you know that it is only a tool. Its awareness only extends as far as passengers and a concept of height. It can't even control that, you notice disdainfully.
08:44:17 <Bike> That's for any characters with the psychic power of panpsychism who are also assholes.
08:45:01 <Bike> Is there an asshole stat?
08:45:32 <zzo38> Anyone can make up whatever stats you want using the @field command, so such a thing is possible.
08:45:50 <Bike> Very forward-thinking.
08:46:20 <Bike> Is there a hugs field?
08:46:31 <zzo38> (However there is some exceptions, such as field names starting with a dot, and a few other fields don't work with it either, but most do.)
08:46:53 <zzo38> Bike: Again, it is possible to make one up; you can make up whatever field you want (with a few exceptions).
08:47:06 <Bike> Well has someone alreayd made it up?
08:47:27 <zzo38> I don't think so, but I can't see everything!
08:48:02 <Bike> You can write descriptions for a game you're not administrating?
08:48:34 <Bike> Or have you just been wasting my time.
08:49:02 <shachaf> Bike: p. sure only one person here has been wasting your time
08:49:12 <shachaf> and it isn't zzo38 (or me)
08:49:28 <Bike> obviously a hugs field isn't a waste of time.
08:49:37 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
08:50:05 <zzo38> Bike: Yes it is possible, in that MUD anyways it is possible.
08:50:50 <shachaf> zzo38: if i'm ever in vancouver can i hug you
08:50:52 <Bike> HAVE YOU JUST BEEN WASTING MY TIME?! you angrily shout at the platform. IS THIS ALL A JOKE TO YOU?
08:50:54 <zzo38> Anyone with the 'builder' flag set on themself can create objects. Anyone who isn't guest can set fields and stuff on themself and anything they created. Also, everyone who isn't guests automatically has the 'builder' flag set anyways.
08:51:00 <Bike> That's if you have a nethack-like hallucination effect.
08:51:05 <zzo38> shachaf: You can try, but I doubt it.
08:51:20 <Bike> You doubt hugs?
08:52:05 <zzo38> No, I mean I doubt you will be in the same place (even if it is the same city), and I might try to stop you anyways
08:52:18 <Bike> So you don't like hugs?
08:52:23 <shachaf> Bike: if i'm ever in middle of nowhere, wa can i hug you
08:52:42 <Bike> um, i guess. i'm pretty awkward.
08:54:03 <shachaf> did i mention that some russian people took my javascript gif player and added audio support using a custom audio block they added to gif
08:54:21 <shachaf> so now they have a file format for animated pictures along with audio
08:56:06 -!- tromp_ has joined.
08:57:45 <shachaf> i get so many .ru referers
08:57:50 <shachaf> but most of them are referer spam :'
08:58:05 -!- ais523 has joined.
09:00:20 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
09:00:51 <shachaf> do spammers have no honour
09:02:45 <kmc> how does referer spam work
09:03:41 <shachaf> people make fake requests to your website using some referer
09:06:58 <shachaf> i guess because people look at their referers?
09:07:11 <kmc> why don't they do something else with their time
09:07:29 <shachaf> isn't it exciting when people talk about you
09:08:17 <shachaf> i wanted to make a thing so i could watch people using my website in realtime
09:08:25 <shachaf> and open a chat box and so on
09:09:11 <shachaf> actually i have the feeling i wouldn't care to talk to most of my referals
09:09:14 -!- farrioth has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
09:30:46 -!- ais523 has quit.
09:33:09 -!- mauke has joined.
09:34:42 <HackEgo> hauke: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
09:34:58 <shachaf> hmm, i'm too tired for this
09:39:23 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:39:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
09:39:24 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:47:46 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/DJbB stat-time
09:49:18 <fizzie> (For 201*, commands containing l, c, m in that order, some of the ones ending in : were probably replies.)
09:49:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:50:46 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:51:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
09:51:23 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:52:01 <fizzie> (relcome still has some catching up to do.)
09:52:34 -!- preflex has joined.
09:53:07 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tervetuloa: not found
09:55:32 <mauke> the german welcome in https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf has a comma that shouldn't be there
09:56:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:56:55 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen, besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.)
09:57:03 <shachaf> `run cat wisdom/willkommen
09:57:05 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen, besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.)
09:57:48 <shachaf> Oh, even preflex is here. This is great.
09:58:57 <preflex> re "REGEX" STRING - test STRING against REGEX
09:59:55 -!- tromp_ has joined.
10:00:29 <mauke> preflex: re ".{.*}." asdf
10:00:29 <preflex> match: [0-4: asdf] [0:1-3: sd]
10:00:44 <mauke> nice, it still works
10:01:28 <fizzie> fungot: Go ahead, say hello.
10:01:29 <fungot> fizzie: and i think sicp or something. away, trying to focus on matters more relevant to making everything a set. now he wants it above the definition
10:02:31 <mauke> preflex's re command uses the regex engine from ploki
10:03:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
10:05:20 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
10:08:30 <fizzie> `run welcome | hyphenate.fi # shachaf: close enough?
10:08:32 <HackEgo> Wel-co-me to the in-ter-na-ti-o-nal hub for e-so-te-ric prog-ram-ming lan-gu-a-ge de-sign and dep-lo-y-ment! For mo-re in-for-ma-ti-on, check out our wi-ki: <http://e-so-langs.org/wi-ki/Main_Pa-ge>. (For the ot-her kind of e-so-te-ri-ca, try #e-so-te-ric on irc.dal.net.)
10:09:45 <shachaf> `run ls -l bin/hyfinate; cat bin/hyfinate
10:09:47 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 12 Sep 25 13:06 bin/hyfinate -> hyphenate.fi \ #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'my$vow=qr/[aeiouyäö]/i;my$con=qr/[b-df-hj-np-tv-xz]/i;1while s/($vow$con*)($con$vow)/$1-$2/g;1while s/a[eoyäö]|e[aoäö]|i[aoäö]|o[aeyäö]|u[aeyäö]|y[aeouä]|ä[aeouö]|ö[aeouä]/my@s=split"",$&;$s[0]."-".$s[1]/egi'
10:09:57 <Jafet> I assume prog ramming refers to the jousts.
10:14:08 <Jafet> #!/bin/sh \ exec perl
10:17:33 <fizzie> `run head -n 1 bin/* | grep -a '^#!' | sed -e 's/! /!/;s/ .*//' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr
10:17:35 <HackEgo> 64 #!/bin/sh \ 25 #!/bin/bash \ 13 #!/usr/bin/env \ 10 #!/usr/bin/perl \ 3 #!/usr/bin/python \ 2 #!/hackenv/bin/lua \ 1 #!/usr/bin/tail \ 1 #!/hackenv/bin/rec \ 1 #!/bin/true
10:17:53 <fizzie> /bin/true: best interpreter.
10:18:10 <Jafet> I like /bin/cat myself
10:18:33 <mauke> every program a quine
10:18:39 <fizzie> Never complains, unlike those so-called programming languages tend to.
10:18:48 <mauke> ploki never complains either
10:19:57 <fizzie> `run grep bin/true bin/*
10:24:37 <HackEgo> bash: beep: command not found
10:26:12 <Jafet> `run echo $'\xe2\x81\xa3'
10:30:50 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
10:31:57 <shachaf> hmm, advertising that "the GUI is themeable" is probably a strong negative signal on the quality of software
10:40:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
10:57:21 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
10:59:19 -!- nooodl has joined.
11:23:05 -!- oerjan has joined.
11:31:09 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
11:31:59 -!- carado has joined.
11:39:04 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
11:39:38 -!- atriq has joined.
11:40:39 -!- carado has joined.
11:40:57 -!- atriq has quit (Client Quit).
11:42:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wii: not found
11:43:05 <fizzie> Wii Shachaf, the unannounced successor of Wii U.
11:43:32 <fizzie> (Everyone's going to want one.)
11:43:40 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: oh, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ioun_Stone <-- i don't think burlew has paid attention to the shapes listed.
11:44:30 <oerjan> also, the colors are hard to determine. i guess blackwing snatched an orange one.
11:44:46 <oerjan> i somehow wouldn't think laurin the type to have a deep red one.
11:45:15 <oerjan> and exactly which green variant is that...
11:45:29 <oerjan> so maybe he's not paid much attention to the colors either.
11:45:29 -!- FreeFull has joined.
11:47:07 * oerjan steps by the oots forum
11:47:43 * oerjan remembers he had food he was supposed to eat
11:56:51 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
12:00:03 -!- carado has joined.
12:01:59 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:02:23 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
12:03:58 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
12:05:23 -!- rodgort has joined.
12:26:24 -!- Chillectual has joined.
12:26:48 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol.
12:29:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
12:31:30 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
12:33:09 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1taral/why_do_theorems_in_complex_analysis_feels/
12:37:10 -!- yorick has joined.
12:44:04 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:55:52 -!- boily has joined.
12:55:57 -!- metasepia has joined.
12:57:55 * boily glares at quintopia
12:58:29 <metasepia> CYUL 201250Z 03014KT 3SM -SN DRSN OVC040 M07/M09 A3002 RMK NS8 SLP169
12:59:34 <metasepia> MDPC 201300Z 09012KT 9999 FEW019 27/22 Q1018
13:00:31 <metasepia> EFHK 201250Z 23009KT 9999 FEW014 03/02 Q1010 NOSIG
13:08:06 -!- CADD_ has joined.
13:08:44 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit).
13:16:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:18:59 -!- ^v has joined.
13:28:51 <metasepia> ESSA 201320Z 18012KT CAVOK 03/00 Q1009 R01L/29//95 R08/29//95 R01R/29//95 NOSIG
13:29:12 <metasepia> ENVA 201320Z 09005KT CAVOK M01/M03 Q0999 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 16011KT
13:29:29 <boily> FireFly: we're undergoing our second snowstorm right now.
13:30:09 <oerjan> no snow forecast for christmas here
13:31:15 <metasepia> CYUL 201324Z 03016KT 1SM R06L/P6000FT/D R06R/P6000FT/D -SN DRSN OVC020 M08/M09 A3002 RMK SN2NS6 SLP168
13:33:43 <ais523> haha, TIL (from comp.lang.c) that the numeric constant "0" in C is in octal
13:33:59 <ais523> I guess it doesn't really matter
13:34:30 <FireFly> I guess that kind of makes sense
13:34:42 <boily> but... it doesn't change nothing!
13:41:43 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
13:41:59 -!- kmc has joined.
13:42:12 -!- atriq has joined.
13:42:55 -!- atriq has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:54:33 <HackEgo> allquotes | grep -i "<$1>" | shuf | head -n 1
13:54:52 <HackEgo> 1097) <boily> I prefer goat memory. I feel it's more reliable, like a vinyl over a CD.
13:55:34 <fizzie> What a useless use of head.
13:57:05 <fizzie> `run sed -i -e 's/| head //' bin/quoth # gonna bork it up somehow...
13:57:13 <HackEgo> allquotes | grep -i "<$1>" | shuf -n 1
13:57:30 <boily> what the fungot was I thinking about when I mentioned “goat memory”...
13:57:30 <fungot> boily: i just like the last one worked, at which point it is all pattern matching and generally the ppl good at that
13:58:09 <fizzie> Goat memory is all pattern matching, anyway.
14:20:09 <quintopia> boily: you need to implement a new language based on goat memory
14:21:44 <quintopia> also why do star trek wikis have entries for goat
14:22:11 <Slereah_> There are goats in the star trek universe
14:23:08 <quintopia> LinearInterpol: you really need to stop copying me
14:23:30 <Slereah_> http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jackal
14:28:53 <ais523> there's a "Jackal" entry on NetHackWiki too
14:29:20 <ais523> although it redirects to "Canine"
14:29:23 <Slereah_> Nethack does have jackals, though
14:29:25 <ais523> because there's not enough to write about jackals on their own
14:30:06 <boily> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Jackal ← an uncaninedirected roguewiki jackalian entry
14:31:07 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:45:57 -!- mrhmouse has joined.
15:02:53 <boily> dhelloesthiswork. mrhmoushello.
15:26:08 <ais523> why is my printf lying
15:26:19 <ais523> !c printf("%c\n", 0x3f);
15:26:29 <ais523> that's more believable
15:27:35 <mrhmouse> I just got the best exception message.
15:27:56 <mrhmouse> This is the entire message: The length of the parameter 'Ȁbit᨞䀀眀攀攀欀攀渀搀䠀漀甀爀猀Ȁ<CTCP>Ȃ戀椀琀툀Ỹ@eĂȀbitᐞ䀀洀椀挀爀漀猀椀琀攀Ȁ<CTCP>ᘂЀÈ
15:30:46 <mrhmouse> I got it while calling DeriveParameters on a SqlCommand object (.NET code).
15:31:05 <mrhmouse> The best part - it only happens the _third_ time I call DeriveParameters. Consistently.
15:31:09 <ais523> what's the command to tell gdb to reread a save file?
15:32:44 <ais523> aha, using "directory" with a directory that's already there works
15:34:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
15:35:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
15:35:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: byeily).
15:48:10 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
15:50:32 <boily> (the joys of using rxvt-unicode! you can hold ctrl-shift, and type the codepoint)
15:50:46 <HackEgo> [U+7F7F CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-7F7F]
15:51:54 <HackEgo> [U+CAFE HANGUL SYLLABLE JJWAELM] [U+BABE HANGUL SYLLABLE MOJ]
15:54:54 <fizzie> I guess `unicode should also accept code points (in flexible formats) addition to character names.
15:55:04 <fizzie> `unicode CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-7F7F
15:55:12 <ais523> boily: I typoed it in Emacs
15:55:21 <ais523> and thought it looked pretty
15:58:04 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:58:23 <boily> neither nciku nor wwwjdic have any info on it. the first hit on google is a page in Chinese → http://www.zdic.net/z/21/js/7F7F.htm
15:58:54 <boily> oh! wiktionary has it → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%BD%BF
15:59:14 <fizzie> "Definition in English: net catch birds", says gucharmap
15:59:53 <boily> so, U+7F7F is the net result of the birds you caught after taxes and fees.
16:24:38 <FireFly> You're EgoBot, not EdBot, darn it.
16:27:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
16:28:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:00:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
17:01:29 -!- ^v has joined.
17:24:26 <`^_^v> hey guys, why do programmers always think christmas is halloween?
17:24:34 <`^_^v> because 31 oct = 25 dec
17:25:54 <quintopia> because programmers are 1) idiots and 2) notoriously bad at implemeting datetime to iso standards
17:26:03 <quintopia> i think only one person ever has managed it
17:41:30 -!- ski has joined.
17:44:07 -!- atrapado has joined.
17:49:57 -!- conehead_ has joined.
17:50:12 <mroman> Are there any simple stack based languages
17:52:42 <ais523> although it is very, very stack based
17:55:52 <ais523> no, it's full of BF derivatives
17:55:58 <ais523> there's a stack-based category, though, I think
17:56:59 <quintopia> ais523: stack-based BF derivatives!
17:57:15 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF-PDA ← there you go
17:57:30 <ais523> although it's intentionally sub-TC
18:05:27 <HackEgo> ski: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:05:30 <HackEgo> atrapado: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:07:59 -!- muskrat has joined.
18:08:40 <ski> (SKI-combinators is not stack based)
18:10:05 <boily> are there combinators for stack manipulation?
18:12:20 <FreeFull> Kitten and Factor aren't very simple either
18:16:41 <FireFly> boily: highly relevant: http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html
18:18:14 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: indeed.
18:18:23 <boily> FireFly: veryndeed.
18:19:25 <boily> hey. unit is pure/return/unit/arr...
18:19:29 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:21:29 <kmc> ski on SKI
18:28:30 -!- ais523 has quit.
18:40:03 -!- zzo38 has joined.
18:40:07 <mroman> I'm looking for a with reasonable effort portable to the .NET plattform language
18:40:15 <mroman> that has not already been ported to it
18:41:02 <ski> boily : you forgot `/eta/η'
18:41:10 <ski> (and `arr' is a bit different)
18:42:18 <boily> well. are is arr, fsvo arr.
18:42:36 <Bike> there are three COBOL implementations for the JVM. mroman, your course is clear
18:49:03 -!- Arufonsu has joined.
18:49:14 <Arufonsu> Hey, is it all right if I monologue about software interfacing? Okay, great.
18:49:56 <zzo38> Arufonsu: I don't mind; see if someone does though after you write something other than just asking if it is OK or not
18:50:11 <Arufonsu> Currently, the lingua franca of computing is C. A library is portable across languages if you can write a C header file for it.
18:50:20 <boily> Arufonsu: I have no problem with that, as long as the rant is in French.
18:50:35 <zzo38> Well, I want it to be in English!
18:50:36 <Bike> Yes, the lingua franca should probably be a better language COBOL
18:50:49 <LinearInterpol> Bike: watch yer tongue, ye be speakin' forbidden phrases.
18:52:36 <Bike> have you ever even seen a cobol program
18:54:15 <boily> if you assemble every capital letter ever written chronologically in all of the programming languages, they form the Ultimate Transformer Cobol Program!
18:54:59 <zzo38> Writing a C header file isn't enough; also you should have the programs to work between the different programming languages as necessary. For example to allow a function from some other library to work in SQL (specifically, SQLite), you still need to write a C code to load the SQL functions and translate the data types into those used by the function and used in SQL databases.
18:55:14 <Bike> https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/1ca57f7a260c72d36d96 just look at this elegance
18:56:12 <Arufonsu> zzo38: SQLite isn't a programming language, though. I don't think SQLite itself provides a means to import foreign functions, does it?
18:56:20 <Bike> horrifying with no advancing
18:56:39 <zzo38> Arufonsu: It does, although you have to write the importing in a C code, not in a SQL code. And, SQL is a programming language.
18:57:17 <LinearInterpol> zzo38: writing a C header file is usually enough for other languages.
18:57:31 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
18:57:40 <boily> what surprises me is that github has COBOL highlighting, but not cabal highlighting.
18:58:06 <zzo38> In Haskell at least, you need to also write the Haskell code to deal with it, although you don't need to write another C code.
18:59:19 <LinearInterpol> zzo38: that's how it is in other languages too, and they each have varying degrees of layering between you and the header file.
18:59:26 <mroman> but it looks like it's difficult to get any documentation about it
18:59:41 <Arufonsu> Anyway, thing is, a C header file pretty much describes ways bytes can go each direction. But with many if not most programming languages, objects can't just be turned into bytes and back, since the runtime environment keeps track of object metadata.
19:01:41 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif).
19:02:40 <zzo38> Arufonsu: Yes, although they may have data structures that have pointers to keep track of, and may need the code to tell it how to do.
19:02:51 <Arufonsu> Like, suppose you have a Haskell function String -> String. If you want C code to be able to access it, could you just give the C code a pointer to the function and provide it a way to call the function?
19:03:16 <Arufonsu> Not really, because then you never know when the C code is done using the function, so you don't know when to garbage collect it.
19:05:00 <zzo38> Yes, dealing with callbacks like that can be difficult due to those reasons you specify.
19:07:13 <Arufonsu> I think the One True Model of computing is an actor model, where there are a bunch of objects, and objects can perform actions, and objects are only ever created or deleted manually.
19:08:23 <Arufonsu> Conceptually, perhaps every object in a Haskell system implements the GarbageCollectableObject interface, and the garbage collector has a reference to every single one of those objects.
19:09:43 <zzo38> Some things that use callbacks can also be done without callbacks in whatever way work for the programming language in use, or using a different kinds of callbacks.
19:09:47 <Arufonsu> Actor, agent, same cotton candy.
19:10:54 <Arufonsu> *shrug* I don't know what the difference is, and I don't know which one I mean.
19:11:19 <LinearInterpol> an actor model and an agent model specify opposite approaches.
19:11:37 <LinearInterpol> an actor model is essentially a message passing system.
19:12:21 <LinearInterpol> being passive, it's only active once there is data flowing in.
19:12:38 <Arufonsu> So if you want to access some Haskell object from C, you could just access it directly, but it might vanish at any time. Instead, I suppose you'd want to create a GarbageCollectableObject yourself, informing the garbage collector of its existence, and telling the garbage collector it has a reference to the object you're interested in.
19:13:26 <Arufonsu> So what's an agent model, then?
19:13:59 <zzo38> In a Haskell code you could create a context (perhaps using a monad) that contains the data and things you need, might be one possibility
19:15:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
19:16:55 -!- `^_^v has joined.
19:17:33 <Arufonsu> Looks like agents are a lot like system processes.
19:17:46 <Arufonsu> They can run spontaneously and access globally-named resources.
19:17:53 <zzo38> But whether you want enumerations, events, etc you may want different ways in a different programming language. For example in SQL, if you want the function to make a list of results, you can define a virtual table to do that, perhaps.
19:18:29 <LinearInterpol> that can take input and give output from and to the environment.
19:19:04 <boily> meanwhile, happy tune → http://protodome.bandcamp.com/track/oh-i-feel-just-fine-because-im-making-macaroni
19:19:28 <Arufonsu> Yeah, my gut reaction is to say I like the actor model better.
19:21:52 <Arufonsu> Now, it seems like there's pretty much a certain, specific set of extra stuff that runtime environments might give to objects.
19:23:18 <Arufonsu> Garbage collection is the main one. If you had an OS where all the objects on the system use a single garbage collector, then runtime environments wouldn't need to worry about that, and you could freely pass references between environments without worrying about garbage collection.
19:33:53 <Arufonsu> I think I once made a list of fancy features that environments have. Along these lines: garbage collection, concurrency, access control, persistence.
19:34:35 <Arufonsu> I noted that no system seems to have all of them. Lua has garbage collection and access control, but not concurrency or persistence. Lua is one of the few environments that has access control.
19:34:50 <Arufonsu> Smalltalk has garbage collection, concurrency, and persistence, but not access control. Smalltalk is one of the few environments that has persistence.
19:35:10 <Arufonsu> I guess Unix itself has concurrency, access control, and persistence. But it doesn't have any kind of system-wide garbage collection.
19:36:08 <kmc> lots of things have system-wide refcounting though
19:37:01 <kmc> the Linux kernel has a garbage collector to deal with sending UNIX sockets through other UNIX sockets
19:40:06 <FreeFull> I didn't think sending sockets through sockets was a thing
19:40:16 <Arufonsu> Now, using Unix domain sockets, can a more privileged process send a file handle or whatever to a less privileged process, thereby allowing the less privileged process to access a file it wouldn't normally be able to?
19:43:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:46:35 <kmc> Arufonsu: believe so, yes
19:46:41 <kmc> this lets you do capability-like things
19:46:59 <kmc> FreeFull: you can send any file descriptor through a socket
19:47:56 <kmc> you can also send a struct with your uid and gid in such a way that it can't be forged
19:48:12 <kmc> so this allows a more-privileged daemon to authenticate requests from less-privileged users and then do things on their behalf
19:48:44 <kmc> a friend of mine argued convincingly that all setuid programs should be replaced with such daemons
19:50:49 <FreeFull> You can also use something like linux's more advanced permissions
19:59:51 -!- conehead_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
20:09:47 <Arufonsu> Now, with Linux, if I want a bunch of processes that can't interact with each other or anything that isn't world-accessible, can I just give them all UIDs that are otherwise unused?
20:12:34 <kmc> they can still interact in lots of ways
20:23:16 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:28:24 <Arufonsu> Yeah, true, but they can't damage each other, right?
20:28:32 <Arufonsu> Except by using up lots of system resources or something, maybe...
20:28:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:28:46 <kmc> or exploiting security holes in each other or the kernel
20:30:10 <FreeFull> Exploiting holes in each other shouldn't be possible if they have no access to each other whatsoever
20:30:29 <kmc> but that's my point, processes have lots of access to each otehr
20:30:47 <kmc> for example they share a filesystem, a network subsystem, etc
20:31:14 <kmc> if you want to strongly isolate things then you need stuff like cgroups and the various namespaces (pid, network, mount, etc.)
20:44:13 -!- Sorella has joined.
20:44:25 <Arufonsu> Are you saying there are different pid namespaces?
20:44:44 <kmc> in Linux? yes, it has all kinds of namespace stuff http://lwn.net/Articles/531114/
20:44:53 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host).
20:44:53 -!- Sorella has joined.
20:47:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:48:43 <Arufonsu> Dang. Namespaces look really cool.
20:52:24 <Arufonsu> And then it looks like LXC is an application that actually uses them to provide a virtual Linux environment within another Linux environment. Is that right?
20:53:14 <Arufonsu> Whelp, I like the E programming language.
20:53:37 <kmc> Arufonsu: i believe so
20:53:48 <Arufonsu> It has access control and concurrency. You figure it probably has garbage collection, right? And I feel like it's likely to have persistence as well.
20:56:31 <fizzie> LXC is one such application; there are more.
20:59:07 -!- augur has joined.
21:01:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
21:03:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone).
21:06:36 <metasepia> CYUL 202024Z 03010G15KT 3/4SM R06L/5000VP6000FT/D R06R/6000FT/D -SN VV006 M07/M09 A2997 RMK SN8 SLP150
21:06:49 <boily> oh, VV! haven't seen that on since last winter :D
21:07:13 <metasepia> EGNT 202050Z 21021G38KT 180V240 9999 -RA SCT015 BKN020 10/07 Q1000
21:07:27 <Taneb> I still can't read it but I like looking at it
21:07:42 <metasepia> KGRR 202053Z 07007KT 3SM -FZRA BR OVC007 01/M01 A2976 RMK AO2 SLP084 P0000 60007 T00061011 56006 $
21:07:59 <Arufonsu> Yup, I don't know what that means.
21:08:00 <boily> Arufonsu: michigan?
21:08:56 <boily> Arufonsu: your weather says: report issued at 8:53pm UTC today, 7 knot east-north-east winds, ground visibility 3 mi, light freezing rain, fog...
21:09:13 <Arufonsu> 01/M01? So the temperature is 1 C and the frost point is -1 C?
21:09:51 <Arufonsu> Aren't they pretty much the same thing, except frost is frozen and dew isn't?
21:10:34 <boily> they're surface water.
21:11:08 <boily> also, your station needs maintenance (the “$” at the end)
21:11:20 <Taneb> boily, what does mine say?
21:12:44 <Arufonsu> So what's the significance of the dew point below freezing?
21:13:01 <boily> Taneb: report at 8:50pm UTC, quite a lot of wind (21 knots, gusts at 38 knots) from the southwest, ground visibility OK, light rain, scattered clouds at 1500', broken clouds at 2000', 10 °C, dew point at 7 °C, QNH at 1000 hPa.
21:13:32 <boily> Arufonsu: it's... below freezing, I guess. I think I'll have to research more details about dew point.
21:14:15 <Arufonsu> Yeah, but surely no dew is going to form if it's below freezing.
21:14:49 <boily> probably «givre», then.
21:14:59 <boily> also, “If the dew point is below freezing (32°F or 0°C), we instead use the term frost point.” ← http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/dewpoint.htm
21:15:49 <boily> “there is nothing special about the temperature being below freezong or below zero... solid ice (frost) rather than as liquid water” ← http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/wea00/wea00061.htm
21:29:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STORM CHICKEN).
21:30:00 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:32:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:37:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
21:41:31 <oerjan> 18:22:14:* boily observes kmc
21:41:38 <oerjan> kmc: so, do you feel particularly collapsed?
21:42:34 <kmc> oh i get it
21:43:20 -!- muskrat has joined.
21:47:18 <LinearInterpol> wavefunctions have stagefright, so when they're observed, they just collapse like babies.
21:48:21 <oerjan> i don't know what you're doing to them, LinearInterpol, but i don't think babies usually collapse.
21:48:44 <shachaf> oerjan: have you observed them
21:48:53 <oerjan> shachaf: it has happened.
21:49:47 <shachaf> babies look so much like humans
21:50:48 <shachaf> mauke: did you ever fix willkommen
21:52:06 <FireFly> It's almost as if they *were* humans
21:56:07 <oerjan> FireFly: i think they are like pokemons that can evolve into humans.
21:56:36 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen, besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.)
21:56:40 <shachaf> Presumably `run sed -i '...' wisdom/willkommen # or something
21:57:00 <oerjan> well there is only one comma is there.
21:57:03 <HackEgo> \ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 61 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documenta
21:57:17 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/,//' wisdom/willkommen
21:57:26 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.)
21:57:44 <mauke> `run perl -e 'BEGIN{%::=()}'
21:58:08 <kmc> is that a monkey
21:58:23 <kmc> `run perl -e '420 fork everyday'
21:58:25 <HackEgo> Bareword found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "fork everyday" \ (Do you need to predeclare fork?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "420 fork" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
21:58:51 <mauke> `run perl -e '%::=()'
21:58:54 * oerjan reminds everyone of the `perl-e command
21:59:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
21:59:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perl-E: not found
22:00:06 <mauke> `run ping google.com
22:00:07 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ \ perl -e "$@"
22:00:43 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2d' bin/perl-e
22:00:55 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ perl -e "$@"
22:01:08 <mauke> `perl-e is this all one argument?
22:01:10 <HackEgo> syntax error at -e line 1, at EOF \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
22:01:35 <oerjan> mauke: that's the idea.
22:01:55 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
22:02:33 <HackEgo> gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
22:03:04 <mauke> `fetch http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/ploki/ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2
22:03:08 <HackEgo> 2013-12-20 22:03:07 URL:http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/ploki/ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 [77308/77308] -> "ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2" [1]
22:03:19 <mauke> `cat ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2
22:03:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:03:20 <HackEgo> BZh91AY&SY;|Rz%&u'o0 \ a|=̍A{s.....>Hm`>:.c^=="Z.mZW{Cǣ(1..w>ӆUݾ<zR;. }z}z7v.}\Mm^kѹ|m{݃Jx}Qox$[vo.>J
22:04:02 <mauke> `tar xfj ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2
22:04:03 <HackEgo> tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
22:04:17 <mauke> `tar xjf ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2
22:04:18 <HackEgo> tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
22:04:34 <shachaf> `run tar xjf ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2
22:05:26 <shachaf> Does that work in some version of tar?
22:06:18 <mauke> `run cd ploki-0.6.5.1 && gcc -O2 -o ploki *.c -lm
22:06:19 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: cd: ploki-0.6.5.1: No such file or directory
22:06:46 <mauke> `run cd ploki && gcc -O2 -o ploki *.c -lm
22:07:37 <mauke> `run cp ploki/ploki bin/
22:07:38 <HackEgo> cp: cannot stat `ploki/ploki': No such file or directory
22:08:20 <shachaf> I think compilation failed.
22:09:55 <HackEgo> atechit.c \ atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ atechit.o \ Compile \ compile.c \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ compile.o \ config.h \ deparse.c \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ deparse.o \ doc \ examples \ expr.c \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ expr.o \ GNUmakefile \ hang.c \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hang.o \ hash.c \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ hash.o \ IGNORE \ inc.c \
22:10:53 <HackEgo> version.c \ version.c.in \ version.depend \ version.h \ xmalloc.c \ xmalloc.depend \ xmalloc.h \ zz.c \ zz.depend \ zz.h
22:11:06 <oerjan> `run ls ploki | grep -v '\.c'
22:11:11 <HackEgo> atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ atechit.o \ Compile \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ compile.o \ config.h \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ deparse.o \ doc \ examples \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ expr.o \ GNUmakefile \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hang.o \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ hash.o \ IGNORE \ inc.depend \ inc.h \ inc.o \ indent \ IO.depend \ IO.h \ IO.o \ kork.d
22:11:22 <oerjan> `run ls ploki | grep -v '\.[cho]'
22:11:24 <HackEgo> atechit.depend \ Compile \ compile.depend \ deparse.depend \ doc \ examples \ expr.depend \ GNUmakefile \ hang.depend \ hash.depend \ IGNORE \ inc.depend \ indent \ IO.depend \ kork.depend \ list.depend \ main.depend \ Makefile \ MakeSkel \ mars.depend \ match.depend \ op.depend \ opt.depend \ parse.depend \ ploki \ pp.depend \ random.depend \ READ
22:11:26 <mauke> `run cp ploki/ploki bin/
22:11:58 <mauke> `run ploki -MO=Deparse /dev/null
22:12:52 <oerjan> oh you ran make in privmsg
22:12:57 <mauke> `run echo $'"Hello, world!' | ploki
22:14:30 <oerjan> mauke: is that working?
22:14:44 <mauke> `run echo $'@REVERSE(\\ARG:3\'\\ARG:`\\ARG:2)_"' | ploki - 10 2 3.141593
22:15:18 <mauke> `run echo $'@REVERSE(\\ARG:3\'\\ARG:1`\\ARG:2)_"' | ploki - 10 2 3.141593
22:15:19 <HackEgo> 11.001001000011111101110000010110000101011110101111
22:15:46 <oerjan> `run cd ploki; make clean; cd ..; mv ploki src
22:15:50 <HackEgo> rm -f *.o ploki \ mv: cannot move `ploki' to `src/ploki': Directory not empty
22:16:35 <HackEgo> doc \ examples \ indent \ syntax \ t \ try
22:16:45 <HackEgo> atechit.c \ atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ Compile \ compile.c \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ config.h \ deparse.c \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ doc \ examples \ expr.c \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ GNUmakefile \ hang.c \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hash.c \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ IGNORE \ inc.c \ inc.depend \ inc.h \ indent \ IO.c \ IO.depend \ IO.h \ kork.c
22:17:45 <oerjan> `run ls ploki | grep -v '\.([ch]|depend)'
22:17:48 <HackEgo> atechit.c \ atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ Compile \ compile.c \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ config.h \ deparse.c \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ doc \ examples \ expr.c \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ GNUmakefile \ hang.c \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hash.c \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ IGNORE \ inc.c \ inc.depend \ inc.h \ indent \ IO.c \ IO.depend \ IO.h \ kork.c
22:18:08 <oerjan> `run ls ploki | egrep -v '\.([ch]|depend)'
22:18:10 <HackEgo> Compile \ doc \ examples \ GNUmakefile \ IGNORE \ indent \ Makefile \ MakeSkel \ README \ syntax \ t \ tags \ TODO \ try \ VERSION
22:18:46 <oerjan> `run rm -rf src/ploki; mv ploki src
22:19:59 <oerjan> i assume this is a newer version than what was there before.
22:22:55 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:33:14 -!- tertu has joined.
22:42:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:43:50 * oerjan has an evil idea about something google should do
22:44:04 <oerjan> decreasing pagerank based on outgoing links to spam sites
22:44:14 <oerjan> perhaps they already do.
22:45:12 <oerjan> because then, people might actually start cleaning up the spam in their blogs.
22:47:53 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
22:50:20 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:05:32 <Bike> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/us-usa-security-rsa-idUSBRE9BJ1C220131220
23:07:31 <kmc> <kmc> the big news is that now everyone knows their price, and it was embarassingly low :) <kmc> i would have held out for like $200M and a pound of cocaine
23:08:13 <shachaf> oerjan: http://www.theawl.com/2013/12/the-new-spammer-panic
23:09:54 <Bike> how much does a pound of cocaine even go for
23:10:04 <kmc> i don't know Bike i don't buy or sell cocaine
23:10:11 <shachaf> what do you do with it then
23:10:13 <Bike> idea: update to Merchant of Venice
23:10:16 <kmc> la cocaína no es buena para su salud
23:10:18 <Bike> "flesh" is street talk
23:10:40 <kmc> is this like that "Romeo+Juliet" movie where they all had Sword brand guns
23:10:45 <Bike> basically yeah
23:11:06 <kmc> shachaf: give it out at halloween instead of candy?
23:13:57 <Bike> bob for cocaine
23:14:08 <Bike> is cocaine soluble? i know so little about cocaine, i'm realizing
23:15:57 <Bike> i have all of avenged sevenfold's albums
23:17:40 <douglass_> Wikipedia tells me that the solubility of cocaine hydrochloride in water is 1800-2500 mg/ml at 20 degrees C.
23:18:33 <Bike> "like sugar water"
23:18:47 <douglass_> The non-salt base form is not soluble in water.
23:19:02 <Bike> so, what, gotta dunk it in hcl first?
23:22:29 <zzo38> ifMUD now is stopped working again; probably because I accidentally made up a infinite loop.
23:23:11 <Bike> this prbably wouldn't get you high, huh. well, i guess you win some you lose some
23:25:13 <kmc> that's p. soluble
23:25:23 <shachaf> oerjan: oh, wait, that article isn't actually what you said
23:25:44 <shachaf> oerjan: but you might get some sort of schadenfreude out of it anyway
23:28:10 <oerjan> although that almost looks like an argument _not_ to remove spam comments.
23:29:05 <shachaf> well, the important bit is presumably preventing them from even being created in the future
23:29:56 <shachaf> also maybe i should be careful talking about this sort of thing
23:30:07 <shachaf> disclaimer, i know nothing about any of this
23:30:12 <nooodl> "[...] after which catamorphisms are sometimes referred to as <i>bananas</i>, as mentioned in Meijer 1991." good
23:30:21 <nooodl> imo all of category theory is <i>bananas</i>
23:30:55 <Bike> that's barbed wire right
23:34:38 <oerjan> shachaf: hm actually it is slightly about what i said, further in
23:36:17 <oerjan> is the crash still ongoing
23:36:49 <kmc> yeah people are rushing to convert their savings to dogecoin
23:37:24 <Bike> http://neurotree.org/neurotree/clusters.php oh good, i found a map like the Erdős ones
23:37:29 <Bike> how wonderfully incomprehensible
23:37:47 <Bike> "change: +12870.94%"
23:37:56 <Phantom_Hoover> "the first currency to be based upon an Internet meme" -- wp
23:38:16 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:38:33 <oerjan> looks like it's up from 2.5 days ago
23:38:34 <nooodl> i bet bitcoin itself is based on a bunch of things you could call "internet" "memes" if you were being really pedantic about it
23:39:10 -!- Arufonsu has changed nick to tswett.
23:39:15 <Bike> i bet i could call you a nerd, nerd
23:39:23 <oerjan> although falling again today
23:39:28 <shachaf> Bike: why do you do that thing
23:40:37 <kmc> should i buy some bitcoins
23:41:21 <Phantom_Hoover> wait in the last three days its value has varied threefold
23:41:25 <Bike> aren't they like five hundred a pop
23:42:12 <kmc> fine "should i buy part of a bitcoin"
23:43:00 <kmc> one day a bitcoin will be worth more than a share of BRK.A
23:43:09 <Bike> bitcoins are a knife aimed at the heart of america, or rather aimed at some of the arteries that are actually kind of nice
23:43:20 <Bike> like that one in the ankle
23:43:53 <Sgeo> I seem to have decided that it would be worthwhile to play VIM Adventures
23:43:59 <Sgeo> Quassel is being dump
23:44:06 <Bike> you're far beyond he- oh.
23:44:07 <kmc> "Pete: For this style of attack though Red would have advocated Ferlinghetti's Axis which - / Todd: Yeah, yeah. Maximizes damage to the vein. You think I don't know this stuff?"
23:44:15 <Sgeo> Maybe vim isn't a good idea for me, I kind of type in an esoteric way
23:44:33 <shachaf> #esoteric should have a zillion subchannels
23:44:36 <Phantom_Hoover> i'd like to hear more about peercoin though, it sounds reasonably sane
23:46:24 <Bike> http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01142005 yeah
23:46:27 <kmc> amused that every cryptocurrency on wikipedia has a link to "Anarchism portal" at the bottom
23:47:07 <Bike> because anachists are alllll about currency
23:54:02 <copumpkin> shachaf: yeah, I'm a huge dogecoin tycoon
23:54:17 <kmc> when are you launching pumpkincoin?
23:54:37 <kmc> or copumpkinin?
23:54:40 <zzo38> What should be the length of a .MOD instrument if I want it to be tuned correctly?
23:54:51 <kmc> zzo38: 2.5 meters
23:55:28 <zzo38> kmc: No, I mean in bytes
23:55:30 <Bike> i thought it was uninteresting
23:55:46 <kmc> it's a scrypt-based coin with a faster blockrate than litecoin
23:56:10 -!- ^v has joined.
23:56:51 <Phantom_Hoover> there are people in /r/bitcoin who seriously think bitcoin was bringing freedom to china
23:57:15 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: "there are people in /r/bitcoin who seriously think??"
23:57:27 <Bike> so i found out it's kind of hard to research people without wikipedia articles (so that i can write a wikipedia article)
23:57:38 <Bike> comparatively, at least. google makes everything seem so easy
23:58:42 <Bike> i think i'll just completely make up a year, put citation needed on it, and call it good
23:58:58 <Phantom_Hoover> i also love how such people kind of brush off the price fluctuations as being the fault of speculators as if that isn't a huge problem in and of itself
23:59:14 <kmc> speculators gonna speculate
23:59:40 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: I wonder if those people realize that USD/EUR also has speculators
23:59:54 <Bike> capitalism does have a habit of messing with theories