00:00:19 <kmc> INVISIBLE HAND WITH RAISED MIDDLE FINGER
00:03:01 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: do you think there's a reason China is cracking down on Bitcoin, other than to preserve capital controls?
00:03:52 <Phantom_Hoover> why would i know! capital controls seems like an adequate enough reason though
00:04:07 <kmc> well then I think it's fair to say they are bringing a certain narrow kind of "freedom" to china
00:04:22 <kmc> not political freedom certainly
00:05:09 <Bike> wouldn't it be neat if the government came out with Bitcoin with Chinese Characteristics
00:05:48 <Bike> which is yuan with pictures of circuit boards taped to them
00:07:11 <Phantom_Hoover> http://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t5fo1/to_the_omg_bitcoin_is_dead_people_jesus_christ/ce4uwjh
00:07:19 <kmc> "This collaboration between the crowdsourcing website Quirky and industrial giant GE (GE, Fortune 500) wirelessly connects to your mobile device to track the number of eggs you have and tell you when they're going bad." $70
00:08:17 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: lol
00:08:32 <Bike> kmc: is that a cite of fortune 500 or, what's going on there
00:09:16 <kmc> it's a link to stock shit
00:09:51 <Bike> oh. i was wondering if they expected name recognition for Quirky but not GE, or what
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00:17:36 <Bike> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Dogecoinwallet.jpg/800px-Dogecoinwallet.jpg oh, i see.
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02:10:17 <myname> Bike: wow, much money, such coin
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02:14:23 <shachaf> the answer is http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1tb9qa/haskell_for_all_lift_error_handling_with_lenslike/ce6ap5x
02:15:23 <Bike> is this pro haskell? that's beaut
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03:24:17 <quintopia> well i managed to buy 75 bitcents after considerable amounts of banging my head against a technological wall
03:24:45 <quintopia> can you believe the only mobile browser that coinbase works in is opera mini?
03:25:24 <Bike> wouldn't that cost like four hundred dollars
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03:27:09 <quintopia> i'm hoping i can start using btc the way i usually use paypal. the idea of taking payments for things in btc appeals to me somehow.
03:28:22 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: the market's been somewhat stable for at least a day now.
03:28:55 <quintopia> sure it's a gamble, but it's better than the lottery
03:28:59 <Phantom_Hoover> oh well in that case it's safe to start pouring cash into it!
03:29:23 <Bike> robbing an IKEA also has better chances of success than the lottery
03:29:52 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: eh it's less than a week of work and i don't have many expenses right now. i'm in a position to gamble.
03:29:58 <kmc> "stable for a day"
03:30:21 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: that's fairly stable for btc :)
03:30:34 <Bike> that's the joke
03:30:47 <quintopia> but no it hasn't been fluctuating that much
03:31:40 <quintopia> you think you can get a variance from extrema?
03:31:46 <Phantom_Hoover> it's less than twenty but i am a) eyeballing the figures and b) not spending cash based on them
03:32:18 <quintopia> it's been between 680 and 720 for 90% of the day
03:32:19 <Bike> "The ICE dollar index DXY -0.12% , a measure of the U.S. unit against six other currencies, fell to 80.824 from 80.986 late Thursday, for a weekly loss of 0.6%."
03:32:22 <Bike> this got into the news
03:33:23 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: do what you want. i don't gamble in casinos, but i could. btc gambling seemed like it'd be more fun :)
03:33:39 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, it was stable enough on december 15; there was a crash on december 18
03:33:57 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: that crash predicated my purchase.
03:34:38 <Phantom_Hoover> bloody hell, i can see why they call it the dunning-krugerrand
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03:34:48 <quintopia> it looked like the china-ban-related crashing was done. so i bought.
03:36:46 <quintopia> hi bike. do you think i'm crazy or do you think coinbase is crazy for working on so few browsers?
03:37:19 <Bike> aiming for wider support than opera seems sensible enough
03:39:42 <quintopia> even in opera it only works jerkily and painfully
03:40:04 <quintopia> no idea how a company could fail so hard
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04:29:09 <zzo38> Do you know if there are format for instrument files to use with .MOD that have a transpose value built-in too?
04:53:46 <kmc> wish there were enough of a bitcoin options market to compute implied volatility
04:53:55 <kmc> that'd be neat
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04:56:36 <kmc> fungot: sing me a song
04:56:36 <fungot> kmc: if that is deserved though). i don't care about its value; i care about anything
04:56:47 <kmc> fungot: you would do anything for love but you won't do that?
04:56:48 <fungot> kmc: eval ( begin ( task1) ( task2))) is ( 0 3) 1
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05:32:04 <zzo38> In this rotating temple (which, for some reason, is built right on top of an apartment???), one of the rooms contains a statue, having a description of two sentences. The first one was there before, and the second one I added today. Is it better now? "This is a large statue of something having a lot of eyes, mouths, tentacles, hands, claws, teeth, and stuff that nobody understands, all in the sideways and wrong order. Strangely enough, it appears
05:32:10 <zzo38> Did this message get cut off?
05:32:22 <zzo38> Is the second sentence better than the first one?
05:32:23 <Bike> strangely enough, it appears
05:32:33 <zzo38> Strangely enough, it appears that even being turned 360 degrees, it is different than it was before; 720 degrees makes it the same, though."
05:33:34 <zzo38> No, it is for ifMUD.
05:33:52 <zzo38> Although it could be used in D&D campaign too, perhaps.
05:34:08 <quintopia> oh a mud. that was going to be my second guess
05:34:59 <zzo38> But is it better now like this?
05:37:08 <quintopia> even though the added sentence is pretty much nonsense
05:38:26 <quintopia> would it be equivalent to say "after rotating one full turn, it does not appear the same as before, but after two full turns, it does"?
05:38:49 <zzo38> quintopia: Yes, that is equivalent, it is what I meant.
05:39:50 <quintopia> so the thing changes as you rotate it. neat.
05:40:00 <quintopia> maybe i could build a statue like that
05:59:19 <kmc> every time you read a LWN article and the first comment is spender railing about how everyone is an idiot, take a shot
06:15:30 <kmc> http://lwn.net/
06:28:03 <Sgeo> http://lwn.net/Articles/576785/
06:29:14 <kmc> yeah i was reminded of this game by http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/577432/4c0c4ca28678daa8/
06:39:59 <Sgeo> "It is already trivially circumvented via a single function usable by any other exploit, present in enlightenment:"
06:40:02 <Sgeo> What's that about?
06:41:02 <Sgeo> "Spender's code shows that it's actually easy to look for signs of fixes in the kernel image before trying any exploit, thus defeating the detection scheme. "
06:43:35 <kmc> "enlightenment" is his framework for writing exploits
06:44:00 <Bike> here i was thinking it was the window manager (not sarcasm)
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07:22:15 <kmc> want to buy hugcoins
07:22:25 <kmc> they're based on proof-of-hug
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08:52:35 <fizzie> Do you have to prove that the hug was consensual?
09:06:41 <ion> trypꙮphobia
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09:11:17 <Slereah_> Is logical implication ever used in programming?
09:11:32 <Slereah_> It seems to always be the symmetric logical operators that get in
09:14:09 <Slereah_> Prolog does apparently, which makes sense
09:14:19 <ion> slereah: → in many type systems is isomorphic to logical implication.
09:14:48 <ion> Namely, in all type systems that are isomorphic to constructive logic
09:15:36 <FreeFull> I think Idris, Coq and Agda might have type systems like that
09:17:50 <ion> -> in Haskell is isomorphic to logical implication.
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09:42:44 <FreeFull> I think Haskell's type system isn't fully turing complete without extensions
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10:50:14 <oerjan> @tell quintopia <quintopia> so the thing changes as you rotate it. neat. <-- maybe zzo38 was inspired by fermion physics.
10:53:24 <FreeFull> I think electrons are like that
10:56:48 <oerjan> yes, electrons are fermions.
10:56:59 <oerjan> also protons and neutrons.
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13:32:21 <fizzie> "Woodcutter Simulator 2013 allows the player to control and operate an entire lumber mill. From clearing woods to the evacuation of the logs, the player has to undertake all arising tasks to complete numerous missions – from cutting trees for demanding customers to producing woodchips for heating purposes."
13:32:29 <fizzie> The whole sim game genre is kinda weird.
13:33:01 <fizzie> "Features: Work with the chainsaw in 1st-person-view" well I guess that sounds quite gamey.
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14:02:51 <quintopia> fizzie: it's like gears of war, but the enemies are a little bit more...wooden
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17:14:26 <kmc> fizzie: woodchips for heating purposes but not for mushroom-growing purposes?
17:14:34 <kmc> fungot: do you grow on woodchips?
17:14:34 <fungot> kmc: 34580840+0 records out of vectors, i guess that
17:15:59 <olsner> fungot: do you grow mushrooms?
17:15:59 <fungot> olsner: in the monad io. its type is provable in classical first order logic theory evaluator. and pronounce it " faulty".
17:18:43 <olsner> some neighbor is sawing or grinding something... loudly :(
17:19:35 <ais523> that used to happen to me a lot a while back, but it stopped
17:19:42 <ais523> presumably they finished whatever it was they were building
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17:57:30 <kmc> maybe they gave up and threw it into the ocean
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18:26:16 <Bike> are wood stoves bad
18:27:03 <fizzie> I hear you can buy wood stoves for poor people.
18:27:27 <fizzie> fungot: How do you grow mushrooms in the IO monad?
18:27:28 <fungot> fizzie: if b clones the vlr. its at that point vatican was the ruling power, and it looks good
18:27:42 <fizzie> fungot: Okay, it sounds p. difficult.
18:27:42 <fungot> fizzie: good then. as kate refuses to *edit* binary files just fine now with readelf. ( i was designing it in my face when a calendar item is due, other than sharing the monitor with a box, and does the winner get a cut. unless you stole it.
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18:34:37 <quintopia> olsner: do you know anything about growing mushrooms in the monad io? thxplz
18:34:59 <quintopia> i'm particularly interested in 1up mushrooms
18:35:08 <olsner> quintopia: I defer to fungot, the resident expert on IO-monadic mushroom growing
18:35:08 <fungot> olsner: hi, seems you too are taking fnord to a fnord interrupt things, to go with
18:35:17 <kmc> well mushroom growing is all about purity, avoiding contamination
18:35:40 <quintopia> kmc: i'm okay with unsafeMushrooms
18:36:29 <kmc> im not :'(
18:36:40 <kmc> anyway the usual result is that you get no mushrooms at all, only mold and bacteria
18:37:29 <quintopia> kmc: can i grow Maybe 1up mushrooms?
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18:37:49 <kmc> a 1up mushroom is like a green A. muscaria
18:38:10 <kmc> but there's no actual mushroom that looks like that
18:38:14 <quintopia> but amanita don't let you cheat death afaik
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18:38:20 <kmc> quite the opposite
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18:38:34 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_phalloides is kinda green and it's one of the most poisonous mushrooms there is
18:39:10 <quintopia> maybe if i i grew them with the monad io they would be life-giving rather than -taking
18:39:30 <kmc> i think you might need a comonad for that
18:47:16 <quintopia> someone just exploded a glass in this cafe
18:47:25 <quintopia> like i got hit in the face by flying glass
18:48:07 <kmc> are you okay?
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18:49:03 <kmc> that sounds like a delicious chocolate bar
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19:05:51 <Bike> http://i.imgur.com/YZVtLW3.jpg i love rich people
19:09:23 <kmc> thanks we love you too Bike
19:09:39 <Bike> (this is another "proposal" by some VC nerd)
19:09:50 <kmc> somebody pointed out that this would be a significant net increase in Republican senate seats
19:10:12 <kmc> unclear if the proposers want that or just don't realize it
19:10:27 <kmc> Bike: did you see http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/the_next_silicon_valley/2013/12/silicon_valley_s_invasion_of_san_francisco_not_quite_the_ayn_rand_nightmare.html
19:11:48 <Bike> "many of them don’t know who Cesar Chavez was" D:
19:12:28 <kmc> "I am the spirit of César Chávez." "Then why do you look like César Romero?" "Because you don't know what César Chávez looks like."
19:12:58 <Bike> clearly we need a new film like American Psycho
19:13:09 <Bike> that fucking business card scene man, i crack up every time
19:13:31 <Bike> i guess the modern version would be talking about how minimalist your website's design is
19:14:12 <kmc> i really should watch that movie
19:17:10 <Bike> good article though
19:18:51 <olsner> how does cesar chavez relate to silicon valley?
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19:23:35 <kmc> well that paragraph is talking about techies moving into the Mission and being ignorant of the cultural history
19:28:53 * kmc lives 1 block from Cesar Chavez St.
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19:31:29 <Bike> i was going to say all the streets are named after him but i forgot if that was tre :V
19:35:33 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_named_after_Cesar_Chavez#Major_streets
19:38:30 <Bike> wow, like twenty schools just in cali
19:42:32 <kmc> meanwhile in florida http://newsone.com/2814127/florida-school-named-after-kkk-grand-wizard-gets-new-name/
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19:44:33 <mauke> preflex: remember <onepoii> shit perl is pretty awesome you can almost right as you speek
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20:09:44 <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1tcpb4/rsa_took_10m_from_nsa_to_make_backdoored_dual_ec/
20:10:01 <Sgeo_> I thought it's been 'allegedly' backdoored, that the algorithm hasn't been proven to be backdoored?
20:10:25 <kmc> i think that's right
20:10:30 <ais523> Sgeo_: basically it has some constants in it that nobody knows where they come from
20:10:55 <kmc> well more than that, researchers have demonstrated how those constants could have been chosen to include a backdoor
20:10:58 <Sgeo_> Yeah yeah, and it's been proven that they could have been chosen to serve as a public key
20:11:01 <ais523> if the constants were constructed using a specific algorithm, it would generate a key at the same time that would backdoor the algorithm
20:11:02 <elliott> it was proved to be "backdoored" whether intentionally or not in 2006
20:11:05 <kmc> http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html
20:11:10 <elliott> and then RSA used it for no good reason whatsoever a few years later
20:11:10 <ais523> or they might just be random, in which case no backdoor exits
20:11:17 <kmc> and yeah this suspicion predates the snowden leaks by years
20:11:18 <Sgeo_> But hasn't been proven that this is actually the case
20:11:19 <elliott> and then leaked NSA documents said they had compromised encryption standards
20:11:23 <kmc> but -- yeah
20:11:25 <elliott> and then it's news that the NSA paid RSA $10M
20:11:45 <elliott> this might be a tiny little hint that dual Dual_EC_DRBG is backdoored <_<
20:11:59 <kmc> also that Dual_EC_DRBG is just shitty and so there's no reason to use it if the govt isn't paying you to
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20:16:00 <Bike> and this is crypto, we should all know that "well maybe nobody knows the backdoor" is security through obscurity.
20:17:41 <Bike> and if you have some suspicion that a company did something shitty and they deny it, you should probably just assume that they're lying to your face because they are full of shit and i hate everybody.
20:18:25 <kmc> hoover's razor
20:19:48 <Sgeo_> Oh, apparently the backdoor doesn't work if you have 31 bytes or less?
20:20:32 <ais523> being able to predict an RNG output after just 31 bytes is a pretty strong backdoor
20:20:41 <Bike> it's important that we microanalyze this to defend the NSA
20:21:39 <shachaf> what if it only works when you have exactly 32 bytes, no more and no fewer
20:22:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike is right, there can be no nuance in this matter whatsoever
20:23:12 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover is right, kill all humans
20:24:51 <Bike> it's not a matter of nuance, it's a matter of the NSA being known to have crippled its own government's security for years with nobody being able to know about it, so why bother counting fucking bytes at this point
20:25:48 <Bike> remember how RSA said dual_ec_drbg's slowness was good because it made attacks slower. that was funny
20:26:34 <Bike> also yes, kill all humans, bike superiority
20:27:27 <ais523> Bike: some crypto algorithms are intentionally designed to be slow, e.g. password hashing functions
20:27:42 <ais523> but they tend to have scalable slowness for that purpose
20:28:23 <mauke> http://lists.randombit.net/pipermail/cryptography/2013-September/005341.html
20:30:10 <Bike> should have put more pounds of coke in there
20:31:23 <kmc> "Most developers would probably use the faster symmetric alternatives, but perhaps a small number would prefer the added confidence of a provably-secure construction. Unfortunately, here is where NIST ran into their first problem with Dual_EC. Flaw #1: Dual-EC has no security proof."
20:31:39 <kmc> "Let me spell this out as clearly as I can. In the course of proposing this complex and slow new PRG where the only damn reason you'd ever use the thing is for its security reduction, NIST forgot to provide one. This is like selling someone a Mercedes and forgetting to attach the hood ornament."
20:33:12 <Bike> apparently i don't know enough about cars to get the simile except from context
20:34:01 <tertu> Mercedes are bling-cars
20:34:21 <tertu> sure you can drive them but that's not why you buy them
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22:25:14 <kmc> "Former South Sudan Vice-President Riek Machar tells the BBC that rebel forces are under his control and have taken the key oil-producing Unity state."
22:25:17 <kmc> great name
22:29:32 <kmc> http://www.kufic.info/architecture/architecture.htm hell yes
22:30:48 <Bike> how is this ordered, uzbekistan is before turkmenistan
22:31:19 <kmc> descending sort by number of uzbeks
22:31:44 <Bike> oh, christ, look at all these books. bad site, i have a budget
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23:17:45 <zzo38> Are there square currency units used for any purpose?
23:18:08 <kmc> like coins but square?
23:18:15 <Bike> do you mean like square meters
23:20:33 <zzo38> Yes, like square meters and stuff like that
23:20:56 <Taneb> Let $ be the symbol for the currency unit. $ is money. $/$ (unitless) is a simple interest rate. $/$s (equivalent to hertz!?) is a compound interest rate, I think
23:20:57 <Bike> they are used for bounties in Trigun.
23:21:37 <kmc> er shouldn't an interest rate be in terms of time
23:21:45 <kmc> why would that change with compounding
23:21:50 <kmc> zzo38: the units on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_(finance) might get pretty weird
23:21:55 <zzo38> Bike: How does that work?
23:22:02 <Bike> sixty billion double dollars.
23:22:22 <Taneb> kmc, I may have forgotten quite what simple interest is
23:22:51 <Phantom_Hoover> <Taneb> Let $ be the symbol for the currency unit. $ is money. $/$ (unitless) is a simple interest rate. $/$s (equivalent to hertz!?) is a compound interest rate, I think
23:23:05 <Bike> "famous for Confusion of Confusions, a book about stock markets" ha
23:23:48 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, whatever would describe a time machine accelerating is equivalent to hertz, too
23:28:35 <Taneb> Odd thing about be #642: I am more conservative with money when I expect an immediate reward to my purchase
23:28:50 <kmc> `quote 642
23:28:55 <HackEgo> 642) <oerjan> well, i have to assume if i'm going to make any asses
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23:31:32 <zzo38> I still do not understand, how you mean using for bounties, and that stuff?
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