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00:17:04 <zzo38> I had some dream (I think just yesterday/today) and I should put it into the computer today. First I am reading something else but then I will do, please.
00:25:00 <nooodl> Bike: always be polite
00:26:29 <Bike> http://www.theonion.com/articles/dollar-tree-ceo-officially-unveils-longrumored-foi,32684/ do you get it
00:40:18 <zzo38> I didn't know you can measure compound interest in hertz. But now I suppose I can understand it.
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00:59:17 <pikhq> zzo38: Finally, a use for picohertz?
01:05:25 <coppro> **** quantum computing
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01:13:53 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I suppose that would be a use for it, then
01:14:08 <Taneb> Hmm, can you represent compound interest as hertz?
01:14:13 <Taneb> I think you would run into issues
01:14:47 <Taneb> Because 1% every one unit of time is not the same as 10% every ten units of time is not the same as 100% every hundred units of time
01:23:57 <Taneb> I think exponentials may have to be involved somewhere, which, for a unit, is most odd
01:27:56 <Taneb> I think it's log $ / s
01:29:01 <shachaf> logarithm-dollars per second?
01:29:17 <shachaf> anyway coexponentials are left adjoint to coproducts or something??
01:29:21 <Taneb> That is the unit of compound interest
01:31:19 <Taneb> I think € is closer to an SI currency
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01:34:20 <Bike> the unit euro is stored in a french vault
01:35:30 <zzo38> Taneb: Yes I am actually also unsure, for the same reasons as you, too
01:36:17 <Jafet> Surely the SI euro should be standardized as a constant of nature, such as the daily expenditure of a physics grad student
01:37:22 <pikhq> Or perhaps the marginal cost of a strange quark.
01:37:36 <Bike> just pin it to the big mac and call it good
01:38:31 <pikhq> Now the real question is, what's the planck unit of money?
01:39:04 <Bike> i think the smallest seriously used unit of money i've seen was the average cost of a semiconductor
01:39:13 <shachaf> oerjan: how come https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_presentation and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finitely_presented don't redirect to the same page
01:39:32 <pikhq> Yeah, but that's not Planck units. :)
01:39:52 <shachaf> oerjan: imo the former is v. obviously biased and should probably be more like the latter
01:42:36 <Taneb> Bike, what is the average price of a semiconductor?
01:43:46 <Bike> a trillionth of a cent, or something like that
01:44:59 <shachaf> Bike: plz answer in dogecoins thx
01:46:05 <Taneb> Bike, another channel is asking what do you mean by "a" semiconductor
01:46:26 <pikhq> I'd guess "a transistor".
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01:46:49 <shachaf> Taneb: imo they can ask Bike directly if they care so much
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01:53:00 <Bike> i meant a transistor, yes
01:53:03 <Bike> words are hard
01:54:02 <Bike> and 'semiconductor' sounds cooler than 'transitor' even though just a stupid lump of silicon ore is semiconductive
01:54:51 <Taneb> Isn't... silicon ore most rocks?
01:55:45 <Taneb> If time is money, then compound interest is log s/s
01:56:34 <Taneb> So compound interest is the logarithm of time to the timeth root
01:56:54 <Bike> the way they get wafers is really cool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_process
01:57:22 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, Hexham's in sandstone country
01:57:48 <pikhq> If time is money, then BTC provides a means of converting electricity into time.
01:58:22 <Phantom__Hoover> you can also convert electricity to money by, uh... selling it to people
01:59:20 <pikhq> Or by electrolisis of, uh... solutions containing gold?
01:59:42 <Taneb> pikhq, solutions containing €
02:02:17 <Bike> kind of want to make a fully mechanical bitcoin miner now
02:03:02 <Taneb> Anyway, I ought to sleep
02:03:21 <Phantom__Hoover> what if our universe is just the proof-of-work for someone's cryptocurrency
02:04:24 <Bike> then i shall make fun of god on internet forums.
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02:25:23 <zzo38> There is various format tags for .MOD format; there is "M.K." which does not stand for Mahoney & Kaktus, but one tag used only once is "M&K!"; does that one stand for Mahoney & Kaktus, maybe?
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02:57:14 * Sgeo_ vageuly plans on buying some bitcoins
03:01:05 <Sgeo_> Worst that could happen is I lose some money, right?
03:01:34 <Bike> consider how many purchases you could justify with that.
03:01:42 <Bike> particularly, any purchase
03:01:45 <Phantom__Hoover> look if you want to speculate you are far better off learning about investment in general rather than following this one specific fad
03:02:27 <Sgeo_> I have noticed myself buying stuff more often when I'd usually try to make do with free alternatives
03:02:44 <zzo38> All the documentation for .MOD format seems pretty bad. Some documents say the Fxx effect sets the speed for the next line, although OpenMPT affects it on the current line.
03:03:08 <Sgeo_> don't different players render .mods differnetly sometimes?
03:03:22 <doesthiswork> I think Phantom__Hoover wants some bitcoins for christmas
03:03:51 <Phantom__Hoover> i think i even had a wallet, i wonder if it has anything in it
03:05:31 <zzo38> Sgeo_: That may be true in some cases (as far as I know, most players don't emulate the Amiga hardware filter)
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03:26:34 <zzo38> OK, I wrote about the dreams now
03:26:50 <zzo38> Tell me if you have anything in your dream to add to the report, too.
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04:33:17 <quintopia> LinearInterpol: use the welcome msg
04:33:22 <Sgeo_> `welcome Edward___
04:33:24 <Edward___> Great, I have a few questions, could I ask you?
04:33:25 <HackEgo> Edward___: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
04:33:48 <Sgeo_> (offtopic, but most messages here are off-topic) http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/12/nyregion/slogan-causes-pencil-recall.html
04:34:16 <Edward___> Learned brainfuck about a year ago
04:34:28 <Edward___> And now I'm learning C, in order to work on my eventual undergraduate thesis
04:34:41 <Edward___> Which involves creating a language.
04:35:07 <Edward___> So for a potential creator of a language... What's some broad advice you can give me?
04:35:15 <ion> linearinterpol: Was that sarcasm? :-P
04:35:20 <Bike> don't fuck it up
04:35:43 <Edward___> Thanks! I consider myself conversational with Python, and fluent in Java ;)
04:35:45 <quintopia> Edward___: have you taken a class in programming language design?
04:35:59 <Bike> but the cool thing about undergraduate theses is that nobody will care after you're done, so don't sweat it
04:36:17 <Edward___> Well, my goal is to hope somebody cares, I want my PhD :)
04:36:18 <LinearInterpol> Edward___: the key to designing a language is consistency. whatever symantics or syntax you give it, make sure it adheres to a strict set of guidelines.
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04:36:45 <Bike> trust me, the only master's thesis anyone's cared about in the last two hundred years is shannon's, and you ain't him
04:36:51 <quintopia> Edward___: that would probably help. it forces you to become familiar with all the various paradigms, and the goals that are typically aimed at by language designers
04:37:04 <Bike> claude shannon, look 'im up, cool guy
04:37:33 <Bike> basically what i'm saying is, do take it seriously since presumably this has consequences, but don't worry too much about designing something that has to last
04:37:34 <Edward___> Also, I've learned a bit about paradigms.
04:37:52 <Edward___> Yeah, I got what you were saying :)
04:38:00 <quintopia> Edward___: how many paradigms have you written working code in?
04:38:06 <Edward___> Thanks for the advice nonetheless.
04:39:09 <Edward___> Yeah, 3 mains and I looked at automata based
04:39:12 <Bike> also, it's pretty easy to learn programming languages since you already know some. learn some that are far from what you know, like haskell or scheme (SICP is free and semi-about language interpreters)
04:39:20 <Edward___> since I'll be in the "Theoretical" focus for my major
04:39:29 <quintopia> LinearInterpol: the three main being imperative, functional, logical?
04:39:40 <Edward___> Well shit, I find C completely different from Java and Python hahaha
04:39:52 <LinearInterpol> Edward___: get used to dealing with the "procedural" paradigm.
04:40:00 <Bike> but there are other completely different ones, see. lots of directions.
04:40:02 <Edward___> And yeah, imperative, functional, logical, and automata.
04:40:22 <Edward___> I like manually managing memory, because if I were to create a really indepth language, I should be good at that, yeah?
04:40:28 <Bike> if you know automata personally i think writing a quick NFA regex engine is a nice way to learn something
04:40:47 <Edward___> I like me too, and I like your help.
04:40:47 <LinearInterpol> We should hang out and discuss memory management schemes.
04:40:50 <Bike> Edward___: i'd say it depends on what you're doing...
04:41:01 <quintopia> i like better languages which don't require such memory management :D
04:41:03 <Edward___> Well the thing is, I wouldn't have much to say about memory management schemes...
04:41:08 <ion> shachaf: “trypꙮphobia”. hth
04:41:28 <LinearInterpol> last one I gave was non-determinism on deterministic platforms.
04:41:29 <Bike> memory management is hard, but cool. obviously pretty hard to do well, what else is new
04:42:07 <Edward___> quintopia: I'd love to. I'd like to take care of memory management in my language (myself as opposed to letting another language do it) so that the user doesn't have to
04:42:36 <ion> shachaf: Do a google image search (or just a google non-image search if you’re squeamish).
04:42:41 <Bike> you could use a language that has automatic memory management to implement your language and then neither of you would have to care.
04:42:59 <Bike> i mean, just saying it's an option.
04:43:02 <Edward___> It's not caring, it's perfectionism haha :)
04:43:03 <LinearInterpol> write a language that has context-independent instructions like brainfuck does.
04:43:13 <Edward___> I'd like to show that I can do it, for the purpose of getting attention ;)
04:43:27 <Edward___> How would I begin writing said language?
04:43:49 <Bike> Edward___: take a look at http://www.ravenbrook.com/project/mps/
04:43:53 <LinearInterpol> right now probably floating around in your head you have tons of ideas.
04:44:01 <LinearInterpol> yet always keep in mind: everything reduces to symbols.
04:44:13 <Bike> does 4 reduce to a symbol
04:44:39 <Bike> i never seen it sym
04:44:45 <quintopia> Edward___: here's some ideas you should be familiar with and consider: pure object orientation (smalltalk), contracts (eiffel), orthogonality (algol), minimizing initial learning curve (PHP and others), garbage collection algorithms (mark-and-sweep in particular), pure recursion/tail recursion (lambda calculus, combinator languages)
04:45:24 <Edward___> I've read about garbage collection algorithms, so I'm familiar with a small aspect
04:45:34 <LinearInterpol> effectively the simplest "language" is an alphabet with a bunch of rules applied to it.
04:45:40 <Edward___> but, I've also learned lambda calculus and some other related theory
04:45:44 <Bike> here is a book on garbage collection http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/rej/gc.html#Book
04:45:53 <Edward___> I mentioned automata earlier for the following reason...
04:46:22 <Edward___> Since I am in that "theoretical" subfocus, I'll be doing a lot of boolean algebra, discrete math, numerical analysis, etc...
04:46:35 <Edward___> and automata are a big working point. Anyway...
04:46:40 <quintopia> tcs is great. hope you can hack it better than me.
04:47:15 <Edward___> but I've learned a lot about language design just from little side-notes in books about the theoretical stuff.
04:47:23 <quintopia> Edward___: a small word of advice. if you want a phd in tcs, don't just be satisfied with discrete math. take every math class you can fit into your schedule, whether it seems useful or not.
04:47:39 <Edward___> I am, I will be taking calc 3 next semester.
04:47:43 <Bike> so is your undergraduate thesis have some kind of criteria to it or is it just "show me a language implementation fucker"
04:47:57 <Edward___> Well that's the thing, I'm actually working ahead.
04:48:05 <LinearInterpol> Bike: I'd like to think that the criteria was worded exactly like that.
04:48:18 <Edward___> But, I want to have an idea, and honestly, I'd just like to learn.
04:48:38 <Edward___> Quintopia: did you get a phd in tcs?
04:48:53 <quintopia> Edward___: no i couldn't hack it. quit with a masters
04:49:14 <Bike> calc three is vectors right
04:49:22 <Bike> fuckin america
04:49:32 <Bike> that has like nothing to do with computer science but it rules
04:49:39 <quintopia> calc three for cs was fun. but i hear actual calc 3 was very different
04:49:53 <Edward___> my school doesn't have a calc 3 for cs...
04:50:01 <quintopia> LinearInterpol: but you have no direction. heisenberg you know
04:50:10 <Bike> calc 3 for CS means calc 3 dumbed down, fuck that
04:50:20 <Bike> it's like those 'math for biologists' courses that are uniformly shitty
04:50:29 <Bike> well, probably.
04:50:31 <quintopia> Bike: not dumbed at all. just different focus.
04:50:44 <Bike> LinearInterpol: sometimes.
04:50:53 <Edward___> Just finished my first semester of bio...bio 2107
04:50:55 <Bike> the joke of course is that biologists are scared of math
04:51:15 <Edward___> Owen White: "Math is to physics as CS is to biology."
04:51:17 <Bike> nowadays everybody has to know python to treat data or w/e
04:51:23 <Bike> haha what the fuck?
04:51:34 <Bike> that's dumb as shit, i love it
04:52:38 <Edward___> I'll save that to watch once I log off :)
04:52:40 <Bike> i can't even imagine what thought process could lead to that quote, i love it
04:52:53 <Bike> "well it's about like, agents"
04:53:05 <quintopia> computational biology being somehow akin to mathematical physics
04:53:09 <LinearInterpol> "AGENT SYSTEMS! BUZZWORD! that applies to biology, right?"
04:53:26 <Edward___> Well, physics is naturally dependent on math, yeah?
04:53:38 <Edward___> And advancements in biology have most recently come from computers
04:53:46 <LinearInterpol> physics is naturally dependent on the entire field of formal science.
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04:53:56 <Bike> yeah, but advancements in blender manufacturing have most recently come from computers.
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04:54:31 <Edward___> Hey, it was at the beginning of a book on Bioinformatics (maybe an essay) written by the guy who basically founded the field.
04:55:44 <Bike> anyway, when people say physics is based on math they're not just saying math helps physicists, they're saying it's a conceptual underpinning.
04:55:50 <Bike> which, well, really isn't true of biology at all.
04:55:53 <quintopia> LinearInterpol: do it like dumdledore
04:56:00 <LinearInterpol> CS is like playing with invisible legos that you can make yourself, and when you arrange those legos in a certain way, you can do amazing things that you couldn't have dreamt of.
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04:56:15 <Bike> i should probably use full sentences and punctuation but fuck that nerd shit
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04:56:43 <quintopia> that's not CS. that's programming.
04:56:57 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulien_Hogeweg oh, a woman. that's nice.
04:57:09 <Edward___> You can make every saying a little fucked.
04:57:10 <LinearInterpol> we're dealing with abstract machines and all sorts of theories.
04:57:35 <Bike> when i think of mathematical biology i just think of lotka though.
04:57:39 <elliott> "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes" -- probably not Dijkstra
04:57:39 <Edward___> So let's say I'm building Brainfuck.
04:57:45 <Bike> or like, volterra. volterra's cool.
04:58:00 <Bike> or kolmogorov but he's just the best at everything.
04:58:10 <Bike> Have you written a brainfuck compiler yet?
04:58:12 <LinearInterpol> Edward___: choose your alphabet, choose your rules, construct an abstract machine, implement it.
04:58:25 <quintopia> elliott: P.N. Dijkstra is definitely my favorite computer philosopher
04:58:40 <zzo38> elliott: I have seen that quotations too, but I think I have seen it attributed to Dijkstra
04:59:04 <zzo38> Either way I like that quotation
04:59:08 <Bike> too bad optics is probably cooler than computer engineering, on the whole.
04:59:17 <quintopia> Edward___: oh right, i was going to mention kolmogorov machines on the above list. something worth knowing about.
04:59:51 <elliott> zzo38: I think it is apocryphal.
05:00:35 <Bike> just try writing one. brainfuck compilers are really easy
05:00:43 <Edward___> LinearInterpol: Surely I approach the project differently from a Fibonacci program...
05:00:45 <LinearInterpol> your implementation is certainly dependent upon your choice of rules/alphabet.
05:00:49 <Bike> as a first approximation, you can just replace every character with a bit of C
05:01:00 <LinearInterpol> Edward___: understand that this field is entirely arbitrary.
05:01:43 <LinearInterpol> the simplest interpreter would be iterating over a string of symbols and modifying some state.
05:01:45 <kmc> more like putchar(tape[i])
05:02:04 <Bike> then you can examine why this implementation sucks (does it work on invalid programs? does it tell you how a program is invalid? is it fast? is it safe?)
05:02:29 <Bike> what do i mean by what
05:02:53 <Bike> Edward___: "++]" isn't a valid brainfuck program, yeah?
05:03:31 <Edward___> And here my mom is saying I shouldn't talk to strangers...
05:03:54 <Bike> if i ever meet you i will sell you methylenedioxymethamphetamine so she has a point
05:05:40 <Bike> goddamn has everyone seen that television programme
05:05:42 <zzo38> Programs without matched [] are invalid brainfuck programs; it is why I suggested once that if the program's input is from the same stream, you should use ] to separate the program from the input (even though most implementations use ! instead)
05:06:19 <tromp_> i agree using ] is much more elgant; no need to expand alphabet
05:07:36 <tromp_> my 112 byte BF interpreter uses that convention too
05:07:46 <quintopia> tromp_: downside is it makes debugging harder. not that usually bothers esolangers.
05:08:44 <zzo38> It also means that ! may be used in comments like in implementations with separate program from input would do, and using ] in case of some kind of Godel numbering, it can help too I guess
05:13:32 <kmc> what's this about Gödel numbering?
05:15:14 <zzo38> kmc: For example if you want the low three bits per number as the first command, and so on, and ] is zero. Hofstadter always used decimal, although I don't like that much.
05:16:00 <kmc> methylenedioxymethamphetamine != methamphetamine, kids
05:16:18 <kmc> the former is a lot more fun
05:18:03 <quintopia> hmm. yep. much easier to pronounce
05:18:51 <kmc> also it's shaped like a lizard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MDMA_(simple).svg
05:19:35 <kmc> quintopia: i like your etymology
05:23:12 <kmc> i met a guy who did research on psychoactive drugs and he told me that it's even more complicated than I thought
05:24:03 <kmc> because two drugs which activate the same receptor with the same overall binding affinity might still produce a different distribution of receptor conformations inside the cell, which would trigger different signaling pathways
05:26:43 <zzo38> The entire report of my and other dreams are at: http://zzo38computer.org/misc/weird_dream/dream.txt They are in order of entry, which is not necessarily the order of occurence.
05:27:12 <zzo38> I know you can have fictitious events inside of other fictitious events, but what is it when you have a fictitious event logically *outside* of a fictitious event? (This happened in a dream once)
05:29:25 <zzo38> I mean, it is actually inside and not outside, but it is logically as if it is outside.
05:29:38 <kmc> zzo38: do you mean like waking up from a dream-in-a-dream?
05:34:43 <zzo38> kmc: No. My example is dreaming being someone else of even a different species or whatever, and then going to a place in the dream, that you have the belief that the real you has actually been there, even though that is fictitious and doesn't exist either. (And this belief cannot combine with the ones in context of the dream, due to the strange logic in use)
05:34:53 <zzo38> Hopefully that is clear enough to you?
05:38:15 <zzo38> Jealous? Are they so much weird compared to others, or is some other factor at work? Or, perhaps, both!
05:38:42 <quintopia> well, weird to me. i hardly ever dream.
05:47:19 <zzo38> When you do, what do you?
05:48:07 -!- kmc has set topic: [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat | When you do, what do you? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
05:48:56 <kmc> i'm sorry baby i had to crash that topic
05:49:05 <shachaf> oh i thought it was a kmc lyrics quote
05:49:11 <shachaf> but it turned out to be a zzo38 quote
05:50:48 <Edward___> zzo38, you are famous in the internet, apparently.
05:51:29 <kmc> zzo38: Do you have stairs in your house?
05:51:39 <shachaf> whoa, whoa, whoa, i forgot about more-notation
05:51:43 <shachaf> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38/Proposal_for_more-notation
05:52:00 <zzo38> Edward___: Yes I have seen, there is several things in there, whether it is links, random gibberish text, other people's writing, imposters, or unrelated things.
05:52:09 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, I do have stairs in my house.
05:52:14 <kmc> http://zzt.org/fora/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=836
05:52:20 <kmc> zzo38: Are you protected?
05:52:55 <Edward___> Good night y'all. How do I make my quit text that Badger gif
05:53:14 <zzo38> LinearInterpol: I don't think so, but I do post in NESdev and do that stuff too
05:53:29 <kmc> Edward___: you just specify the quit text after /quit
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05:53:55 <Bike> going to badgerland
05:54:05 <kmc> the happiest place on earth!!!
05:54:08 <LinearInterpol> zzo38: can I talk to you about accepting the 6502 as your personal lord and savior.
05:54:09 <zzo38> kmc: Protected? How?
05:54:17 <kmc> zzo38: from the terrible secret of space
05:54:36 <zzo38> LinearInterpol: You can try! However, I don't accept something as my personal lord and savior.
05:54:55 <zzo38> (Other than philosophical ideals, I suppose.)
05:55:12 <zzo38> LinearInterpol: The decimal mode doesn't work in the NES/Famicom.
05:55:15 <shachaf> can i be your shared lord and savior
05:55:32 <zzo38> shachaf: You can try, but I think not.
05:56:35 <LinearInterpol> it also just occurred to me that MOS Technologies is the Bender of the semiconductor world.
05:56:50 <LinearInterpol> "I'm gonna go make my own architecture! With blackjack and hookers!"
05:57:09 <kmc> also http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/attachments/off-topic-6/46134d1371914998-count-100-000-pictures-bender_6502-jpg
05:57:33 <Bike> doesn't this mean Bender is the 6502 of the robot world
05:57:57 <zzo38> LinearInterpol: I would use the decimal mode when programming one that does have decimal mode working, but not for Famicom programs.
05:59:32 <zzo38> LinearInterpol: ???
05:59:48 <kmc> x86 Classic also has some decimal mode stuffs
06:00:20 <kmc> and the Z80 is modeled after the 8080
06:00:49 <kmc> just like the Tu-4 was modeled after the B-29
06:00:56 <zzo38> kmc: Yes it has some instructions for it, but I rarely program stuff in x86 assembly language anyways (except for a few small DOS programs; I have done a few)
06:01:09 <zzo38> (and once, a MBR code)
06:06:07 <kmc> LinearInterpol: I doubt the 6502 has any instruction built in for either blackjack or hookers although I suppose the former is possible
06:06:52 <kmc> obligatory http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html
06:09:59 <zzo38> I have seen story of Mel, too.
06:11:12 <tertu> don't modern x86 boxes still support decimal mode if you're in real mode or something
06:11:25 <kmc> in protected mode as well, i believe
06:11:28 <kmc> but not in long mode
06:11:32 <zzo38> tertu: Yes, but not in 64-bit mode
06:19:33 <zzo38> What is your opinion of these things I added in this dreaming report by now? Furthermore, do you have anything to add or to correct any errors in the text?
06:21:08 <zzo38> Are you aware of any David Sirlin games?
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06:39:13 <kmc> http://i.imgur.com/lYjKKpx.png winter in san francisco
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06:40:07 <shachaf> kmc: can we have that in real degrees plz
06:41:21 <shachaf> this channel is full of people from hexham and finland
06:41:22 <zzo38> *Real* degrees? Like angular measurements?
06:41:58 <shachaf> no, like real numbers greater than -273.15
06:42:04 <mauke> real degrees, like ph.d.
06:42:30 * kmc wonders what complex angles would represent
06:44:01 <Bike> > asin 3 :: Complex
06:44:03 <lambdabot> Expecting one more argument to `Data.Complex.Complex'
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06:44:07 <Bike> no good? oh well.
06:44:11 <Bike> > asin 3 :: Complex Double
06:44:12 <lambdabot> 1.5707963267948966 :+ (-1.762747174039086)
06:44:30 <mauke> `run echo '@ASIN3' | ploki
06:44:47 <kmc> que es ploki
06:44:55 <mauke> `run echo '@ASIN 0.5' | ploki
06:44:59 <shachaf> mauke: Does ploki just read from stdin?
06:45:10 <mauke> shachaf: stdin or file
06:45:24 <mauke> it can't execute from argv
06:45:56 <shachaf> You should make a `runploki command that reads from argv.
06:46:07 <shachaf> I'd do it but I'm not sure how much special character support is necessary?
06:46:17 <kmc> tell me about ploki
06:46:58 <mauke> kmc: it's a scripting language modeled after BASIC, Perl, and assembler code
06:47:47 <mauke> shachaf: the main reason I haven't done that yet is that ploki insists on newlines between statements
06:47:54 <mauke> which is awkward on the command line
06:48:36 <shachaf> You could use echo -e or something like that. But still awkward.
06:48:47 <kmc> `run echo $'hello\nworld\n'
06:49:02 <kmc> i like to do things like git commit -am $'blah\n\blah blah'
06:49:05 <mauke> kmc: there is some documentation at http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/ploki/ploki-0.6.5.1/doc/
06:49:16 <mauke> but like the rest of ploki, it's part of the practical joke
06:49:33 <shachaf> I know about $'' but it wouldn't work with an externally supplied string.
06:49:54 <mauke> there's all sorts of fun hidden in the corners that the documentation doesn't cover
06:50:16 <mauke> e.g. it's not obvious from the description of the syntax that ploki has literally no syntax errors
06:50:49 <mauke> the only "error" it has is going into an infinite loop
06:51:25 <mauke> this is based on an implementation accident when I first did the GOTO command
06:52:06 <mauke> but I was quite pleased to discover _|_ being used both for errors and nontermination, 10 years later
06:52:57 <mauke> unlike Perl it uses _ for concatenation (instead of .)
06:53:39 <mauke> this is because at the time I didn't know about parsers and . was already part of the syntax for numeric literals (.123, etc) so I had to use something else
06:54:15 <mauke> later on, perl6 also used _ for this purpose (but then they switched to ~)
06:54:52 <mauke> because _ was taken, I needed another character to separate words in identifiers. I chose $
06:55:24 <mauke> and guess what? javascript does the same thing, treating $ as a letter!
06:56:10 <mauke> conclusion: ploki is full of silly and stupid ideas but also weirdly prophetic sometimes
06:58:47 <mauke> it almost-but-not-quite supports functional programming via the @OMFG operator
07:01:05 <mauke> ooh, and the documentation is written to make you build a nicely organized mental model of the syntax in your head (a program is a list of statements, a statement contains expressions, expressions look like this ...)
07:01:35 <mauke> but other parts of the language violate this layering
07:01:51 <mauke> if I had to write a formal grammar for it, I wouldn't even know where to start
07:30:38 <zzo38> Also in some C implementations the $ is also a letter
07:36:34 <zzo38> I looked at the ploki documentation, and some of the examples, and other stuff on the same server and found this: http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/img/regex.png I don't know what the symbol in the circle is supposed to be but I think I can understand its meaning, at least. Therefore it also give me the idea to make a label/goto operators in a regular expression
08:07:04 <shachaf> http://i.imgur.com/qzstp.png
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09:04:19 <Sgeo_> I might sing in public tomorrow
09:04:40 <Sgeo_> Hmm, Bike probably hasn't heard me singing
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10:14:00 <oerjan> @tell Taneb <Taneb> I think exponentials may have to be involved somewhere, which, for a unit, is most odd <-- "decibels" hth
10:14:17 <oerjan> @tell Taneb Also "bits".
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10:16:31 <fizzie> Nobody also writes it "deciBel".
10:16:42 <fizzie> It's just "decibel (dB)".'
10:16:50 <FreeFull> I think 6 decibels is twice the power
10:17:39 <oerjan> indeed, officially only the abbrevations of units named after persons have capitalization.
10:18:31 <fizzie> (Well, more like 10*log10(2).)
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10:19:40 <fizzie> Though there's a factor of 2 that often appers in things related to decibels, because of some kind of a square.
10:21:17 <oerjan> amplitude vs. energy or something like that
10:21:55 <FreeFull> Twice the amplitude is four times the power
10:22:14 <fizzie> Yes. So you need a 6 dB change to double the amplitude.
10:23:38 * oerjan wonders why they chopped off the "l" in Bell's name
10:24:30 <Sgeo_> I can only assume that cojazz is the dual of jazz
10:24:59 <fizzie> oerjan: That's still better than calling the unit "Alexander", though.
10:25:23 <fizzie> Then we'd be measuring sound and other thing in decialexanders (dA).
10:26:06 <FreeFull> Sgeo_: Actually, jazz is self-dual
10:27:20 <FreeFull> fizzie: A is already taken anyway
10:27:37 <oerjan> fizzie: have any units been named after someone's first name
10:29:19 <fizzie> I can't think of any. I'm sure there's at least some "jokey" thing.
10:30:01 <oerjan> i see they mangled Napier's name even worse.
10:30:24 <fizzie> How about Kelvin, I guess that's not exactly a surname?
10:30:47 <fizzie> Given that it's "William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin" or some-suchg.
10:30:56 <oerjan> well it's presumably a place name
10:31:04 <fizzie> Also re Bell -> bel, there's also Faraday -> farad.
10:31:38 <FreeFull> He was lorded for what he did with thermodynamics though
10:31:51 <FreeFull> The title came from the river Kelvin
10:33:18 <fizzie> (I'm going through Wikipedia's "List of scientific units named after people", looking for first names; none so far.)
10:35:12 <oerjan> i somehow associate the custom of nobles (or royals) having surnames distinct from their titles as something british.
10:35:54 <fizzie> Oh, helens (you know, 1 millihelen is the amount of beauty needed to launch one ship, and so on) are named after a first name. I guess. I mean, I don't suppose Helen of Troy has a recorded surname, anyway.
10:38:05 <oerjan> yeah i was thinking of explicitly excluding any units named after ancients, but couldn't think of any.
10:38:20 <fizzie> oerjan: Have you ever measured anything in oersteds?
10:38:41 <lambdabot> oerjan said 24m 41s ago: <Taneb> I think exponentials may have to be involved somewhere, which, for a unit, is most odd <-- "decibels" hth
10:38:42 <lambdabot> oerjan said 24m 24s ago: Also "bits".
10:38:51 <Taneb> oerjan, yeah, I realised
10:39:18 <oerjan> fizzie: i don't think so.
10:40:09 <fizzie> Just thought you might have a natural affinity.
10:41:31 <oerjan> it seems to be obsolete (pre-SI)
10:41:55 <oerjan> also, i dropped out of physics about when i should have got seriously into electromagnetism.
10:42:38 <oerjan> allergic aversion to lab writeups, terrible case.
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10:45:30 <oerjan> <shachaf> anyway coexponentials are left adjoint to coproducts or something?? <-- is there any category that has those and isn't obviously the dual of something more natural.
10:46:47 <oerjan> i note an absense of any prominent wikipedia link.
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14:37:43 <mroman> > [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat
14:37:45 <lambdabot> [Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Jus...
14:38:35 <mroman> > [Just (), Nothing] >>= cycle.([])
14:38:38 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe () -> [b0]'
14:39:05 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> [a1]' with actual type `[a2]'
14:39:05 <lambdabot> In the second argument of `(.)', namely `([])'
14:39:41 <mroman> I thought [] is essentially \a -> [a]
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15:07:06 <FreeFull> Note that (:[]) is just as long as pure
15:07:11 <lambdabot> No instance for (Control.Applicative.Applicative f0)
15:07:11 <lambdabot> The type variable `f0' is ambiguous
15:07:11 <lambdabot> Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s)
15:07:11 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
15:07:36 <FreeFull> That would work if something else depended on it being a list
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16:20:16 <mroman> return for applictives?
16:21:01 <lambdabot> (Monad m, MonadTrans t) => m a -> t m a
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16:21:22 <mroman> > (lift id $ 5) :: Maybe Int
16:21:24 <lambdabot> Couldn't match kind `*' with `* -> *'
16:21:24 <lambdabot> Expected type: (->) (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Int)
16:21:24 <lambdabot> Actual type: (->) (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Int)
16:21:49 <mroman> That does not work that way
16:22:41 <lambdabot> No instance for (Control.Arrow.Arrow a0)
16:22:41 <lambdabot> The type variable `a0' is ambiguous
16:22:41 <lambdabot> Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s)
16:22:41 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
16:23:03 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `MaybeT'
16:23:03 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `Maybe' (imported from Data.Maybe)
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16:48:53 <FreeFull> @let import Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe
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17:18:25 <kmc> (>) :: IO t -> FilePath -> IO t; main = putStrLn "Hello, world!" > "foo.txt"
17:26:30 <FreeFull> What would you use for inequality?
17:30:50 <FreeFull> | probably can't be used because of guard syntax
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18:08:59 <kmc> taking this NYT American English dialect quiz
18:09:03 <kmc> "QUESTION 24 OF 25: What do you call a drive-through liquor store?"
18:09:24 <Taneb> I still don't believe they exist
18:10:04 <kmc> http://gowally.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/double_shot_liquor_guns.jpg
18:10:45 <Taneb> Well, screw the real world I am going to watch the Hobbit again
18:10:57 <kmc> drive through hobbits and rings
18:11:45 <fizzie> Drive-through volcanoes, for all your on-the-go ring-of-doom unmaking needs.
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18:16:22 * kmc dejectedly sets down his `relcome
18:18:29 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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18:21:02 <kmc> `relcome zzo38
18:21:04 <HackEgo> zzo38: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:21:32 <shachaf> oerjan: wow, do you just hate duals
18:21:49 <shachaf> oerjan: you're like http://math.stackexchange.com/q/556921
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19:27:16 <FireFly> FreeFull: there's always ¦
19:28:48 <FreeFull> Yeah, but that's an unicode character. Some people can't write it
19:29:26 <kmc> THEY'RE ALL UNICODE CHARACTERS
19:29:30 <kmc> THAT IS THE POINT OF UNICODE
19:30:50 <FreeFull> Sorry, I meant a character that's outside ASCII
19:31:20 <FireFly> Hm, I can't remember if altgr+shift+< is ¦ on windows se-qwerty too, or if that's a X11 thing
19:31:48 <FireFly> It's not printed on the keyboard, so I guess the latter is likely
19:31:54 <Bike> ¦ is on the backslash/pipe key or me.
19:32:29 <zzo38> Actually there are also many things that aren't available in Unicode, although all ASCII characters are available, at least, and many others (with a lot of confusing and redundancy and other complexities and stupid stuff, though)
19:32:42 <kmc> zzo38: which characters aren't available in Unicode?
19:32:53 <kmc> Klingon and most other constructed writing systems
19:33:03 <kmc> though they have semi-official private use area allocations
19:33:28 * kmc . o O ( and yet Hangul is in the BMP )
19:33:42 <olsner> FireFly: probably not, I think someone went a bit crazy mapping altgr-everything in x's keymaps
19:33:50 <Bike> wait, why wouldn't hangul be in the bmp
19:34:01 <kmc> the joke is that hangul is a constructed writing system
19:34:11 <mroman> We should probably switch to Vector Fonts
19:34:22 <mroman> If they don't already exist, I call it my invention .
19:34:37 <kmc> it just happens to be the most popular one by like 5 orders of magnitude
19:34:39 <mroman> so there's no encoding anymore at all
19:34:45 <Sgeo_> Ok, so | is different from the one with the space inside, although my keyboard's rendition of | has a space inside
19:34:47 <mroman> It's just Vector Graphics STuff
19:35:09 <kmc> Sgeo_: I think http://www.wps.com/J/codes/ has far more than you could ever want to know on this subject
19:35:11 <mroman> also... you wouldn't need a font anymore .
19:35:23 <Bike> i think you'll fine most writing systems are constructed :colbert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cangjie2.jpg
19:35:25 <mroman> The text is already in vector graphics form.
19:35:55 <kmc> "Legend has it that he had four eyes and four pupils, and that when he invented the characters, the deities and ghosts cried and the sky rained millet"
19:36:33 <Sgeo_> mroman: how would copy/paste work?
19:36:35 <Bike> mroman: you know, being able to choose a font is actually an advantage.
19:36:46 <Sgeo_> Actually, no, copy/paste would work
19:36:57 <Sgeo_> But you'd be stuck with the formatting of the original, I think
19:37:17 <mroman> Sgeo_: Why wouldn't that work
19:37:22 <mroman> It's just character after character
19:37:39 <mroman> The same way it works with Bitmap Fonts essentially
19:38:16 <Sgeo_> Are there actual code-points involved, or is every 'character' just an image, with no way to compare between 'fonts'?
19:38:21 <kmc> mroman: it's rather inconvenient to manipulate text when it's stored as individual strokes
19:38:30 <mroman> A character is a description of its appearance
19:38:51 <Sgeo_> Ok, suppose I have a website written by a very smart person, but they used a Comic Sans like font
19:39:00 <Bike> good supposition
19:39:02 <Sgeo_> I want to copy something they said into an email to some professional person
19:39:17 <kmc> Sgeo_: is this person named Simon Peyton Jones
19:39:29 <Sgeo_> How do I do that while stripping the bad formatting? Or do I just say "Sorry, the person who wrote this used Comic Sans"?
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19:42:24 <kmc> or what if you want to, say, index or search or translate text
19:42:51 <elliott> mroman: you could just store every document as an svg with no text in it
19:42:55 <elliott> doesn't mean this is in any way a good idea
19:43:07 <elliott> anyway, fonts don't have fixed grids, generally
19:43:13 <elliott> (monospaced ones are the exception, and even then...)
19:45:16 <Bike> i don't think i can remember any language-inventors more colorful than cangjie
19:45:25 <Bike> oh. wikipedia has an article.
19:45:39 <kmc> the process which takes a font and a sequence of codepoints and outputs a vector image is called text shaping and it's very complicated
19:45:40 <Bike> well, none of them will be more badass than Sequoyah, anyway
19:46:10 <kmc> Bike: true facts.
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20:37:05 <fizzie> Learned today: the most arbitrary-looking numeric limit ever: http://sprunge.us/PeNV
20:38:59 <kmc> that's in the ballpark of 80 bits... maybe they added 80 bit support for x87
20:39:01 <kmc> doesn't quite add up though
20:43:02 <fizzie> I guess it's something more complicated, since it's not even consistent: http://sprunge.us/ePMZ
20:44:09 <fizzie> 0x00001000000000000000000000000000 is also okay.
20:44:24 <fizzie> Maybe it's some sort of "can be exactly represented in some type" kind of thing.
20:45:01 <fizzie> (It doesn't actually set the correct value even when it doesn't complain, if it's >64 bits, so...)
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20:47:42 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/cFNW yes, I'm going to go with "is exact for an 80-bit long double" kind of thing. (That has 64 bits of precision, as I recall.)
20:49:24 <kmc> clearly you should put together a "wat" talk for GDB
20:50:47 <kmc> one thing that really frustrated me is that there's no easy way to examine a memory operand of the form %fs:0x70
20:51:34 <kmc> i ended up writing a .c file with «unsigned long foo() { unsigned long x; asm volatile("mov %%fs:0x70, %0" : "=r"(x)); return x; }» and compiling it to a .so and pulling it in with LD_PRELOAD and calling «print foo()» within GDB
20:51:46 <kmc> bit roundabout although I'm very pleased with myself
20:54:06 <fizzie> You could probably write a macro, I've seen some quite hairy gdb macros.
20:54:35 <kmc> how would it work though?
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20:56:55 <fizzie> Hrm. I guess you can't get the segment bases in any sensible way.
20:57:27 <kmc> you could force the traced process to call arch_prctl(ARCH_GET_FS)
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21:12:19 <Sgeo_> "“I had a sex dream about an autistic kid last night. #fml.".. are people offended by the 'kid', by the '#fml'... or just at the notion of sex with an autistic person?
21:12:50 <Sgeo_> Because if it's the latter, that's kind of offensive, to suggest that autistic people shouldn't have sex
21:13:11 <tertu> i interpreted it as the "fml"
21:13:16 <tertu> or perhaps the kid
21:13:19 <kmc> but i'm missing the context here
21:13:31 <Bike> 'autistic kid' connotes someone who's not "high-functioning" and probably not capable of consent, to me, at least in that context
21:13:40 <Sgeo_> kmc: some PR person tweeted something offensive recently, and that quote was another tweet from earlier people got offended about
21:14:02 <tertu> there's this reporter(??) who got suspended for tweeting something like "i'm going to Africa, hope i don't get aids, oh wait i'm white"
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21:14:18 <Sgeo_> http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/12/upper_level_pr_exec_tweets_that_she_is_going_to_africa_hope_i_don_t_get.html
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21:15:21 <quintopia> yeah i don't see why you'd be offended by someone's dreams. presumably they have no control over such things. (on the other hand, why would you tweet your sex dreams?)
21:15:48 <Sgeo_> I may have made mention of some of my sexual dreams online
21:16:24 <kmc> it's up to her who she wants to have sex with but saying in public that people in this or that group are unfuckable is an asshole move
21:17:08 <kmc> i have definitely talked about sex dreams in #esoteric
21:19:40 <kmc> i have this cool thing going where a) i'm a rich white guy b) i work in an industry with v. low standards for personal conduct c) i'm nobody and nobody really cares what i say
21:19:55 <kmc> so i can talk about all kinds of embarassing things and it's fine
21:21:14 <Fiora> I think it's more along the lines of like, 99% of the time a privileged person talks about having sex with <some minority/oppressed/disabled group they're not part of> it's basicaly always either insulting or fetishization or some mix <.<
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21:26:57 <doesthiswork> so I've been learning about the big personalities in the webcomic world.
21:27:32 * oerjan is starting to wonder exactly how rich kmc is.
21:27:50 <doesthiswork> I think a very exciting reality show could be created just by putting them all in one room
21:28:37 <kmc> to be clear, I think it's a good thing that I won't be fired for talking about sex dreams in #esoteric, but I don't think that should extend to racism sexism ableism etc.
21:30:04 <kmc> if I act that way in public yeah, depending on circumstances
21:30:49 <kmc> oerjan: well I have a job so I feel pretty well off by the standards of the new american economy
21:31:26 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: i dunno I don't really feel like getting into this in depth
21:33:42 <kmc> why are there 3 different incompatible systems for rating HVAC filter effectiveness
21:36:31 <lambdabot> Title: HVAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
21:36:41 <oerjan> lambdabot: why thank you lambdabot
21:36:59 <oerjan> where's metasepia when you need it
21:37:18 <oerjan> @google HVAC definition
21:37:52 <oerjan> kmc: it's because there's no such thing hth
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21:42:15 <oerjan> that poor peripheral air gets no love
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21:43:41 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: he only has a lease on me! ...ok, no, i had a lot of debts ok
21:43:57 <quintopia> oerjan: sure it does. i know plenty of folks and businesses with window units.
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21:46:13 <shachaf> if kmc owns me p. sure he's obligated to fix me when i'm broken
21:47:30 <quintopia> shachaf: did you try sleeping? hth
21:48:46 <zzo38> kmc: Things like Klingon aren't the only things not available in Unicode. Also some of the characters (including control characters) from the Commodore 64 and other computers. (All of the PC characters are available, though.)
21:49:47 <Bike> well, shit, shut it all down
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21:55:05 <oerjan> shachaf: a dual killed galois, you know
21:56:05 <lambdabot> sclv says: Q: Why are the adjunctions of Galois connections backwards? A: He never got the hang of duals.
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22:18:10 <wlee23> Today I found my favorite idea for a possible language.
22:18:25 <wlee23> Final Fantasy, where you have to code 200 lines before your program STARTS to have meaning.
22:19:12 <ais523> that's in interesting esolang idea even without the refrence
22:21:02 <Phantom_Hoover> isn't that fairly common depending on your interpretation
22:23:42 <wlee23> It's on the website, I stumbled upon it.
22:23:49 <wlee23> Haha, and yeah that is true.
22:24:00 <wlee23> anyway, y'all take care, I'm off to see Frozen.
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22:30:32 <Gregor> Anybody know of a synchronization tool similar to rsync but with a source cache so it can avoid communication with the destination whatsoever if the source hasn't changed?
22:36:01 <Sgeo_> http://mashable.com/2013/12/21/gogo-justine-sacco/
22:51:22 * oerjan suddenly has this idea that someone should invent a drug that makes you forget which people are acceptable joke targets. then put it in the water supply across the northern hemisphere.
22:52:06 <oerjan> come to think of it, that might end up as a prelude to another remake of On the Beach.
22:53:57 <oerjan> or maybe a james bond movie.
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22:56:03 <oerjan> or perhaps a drug that makes you find _all_ jokes offensive.
22:57:51 <oerjan> you don't need to put the latter joke into the chinese water supply though, it wouldn't make a difference anyhow.
22:58:18 <LinearInterpol> putting jokes into the water supply really waters them down.
22:58:37 <olsner> makes the water taste funny though
23:00:26 <oerjan> is it bad when your main prejudice against an ethnicity is that they're ridiculously sensitive
23:05:08 <olsner> are swedes ridiculously sensitive?
23:05:19 <oerjan> (the difference is that the chinese are sensitive about themselves, while the swedes are sensitive about everyone else)
23:06:44 <olsner> the swedish press would certainly make it seem that way at least
23:06:54 <olsner> I think they're trying to pit the overly sensitive half against the people who get outraged how people can be so overly sensitive and get offended by silly stuff
23:08:20 <oerjan> sounds profitable. also: timbuktu.
23:08:57 <Phantom_Hoover> everyone is always asking me, "why do you hate the swedes"
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23:09:07 <olsner> oerjan: there was some sort of controversy involving him, right? do you know what it was about?
23:09:26 <oerjan> olsner: no i don't remember
23:09:57 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: do you hate the swedes?
23:10:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wehlcome: not found
23:10:20 <olsner> `thanks Phantom_Hoover
23:10:21 <HackEgo> Thanks, Phantom_Hoover. Thantom_Hoover.
23:10:23 <Phantom_Hoover> my theory is that you were abducted from finland or norway at birth
23:10:45 <HackEgo> Jm_329: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: <hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE>. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
23:11:02 <JM_329> My I know the topic, please?
23:11:53 <oerjan> it's right there in HackEgo's response. although i guess it's a bit heavy on the CamelCase.
23:12:24 <ais523> it's about esoteric programming languages
23:12:38 <ais523> we should really put that in the topic, but people prefer jokes for some reason
23:12:46 <ais523> `pastlog development and deployment
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23:13:20 <ais523> `pastlog development and deployment
23:13:33 <HackEgo> 2008-06-18.txt:00:01:28: -!- oklofok changed the topic of #esoteric to: The coolest ever international hub for esoteric programming language design, development and deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric
23:14:14 <oerjan> ais523: i thought the welcome message was based on that old topic
23:14:35 <ais523> but you can't read it in the stupid welcomes
23:14:44 <ais523> I think for new people, we should stick to the standard `welcome
23:15:35 <shachaf> It should say "development" rather than "deployment".
23:15:45 <shachaf> What does it even mean to deploy an esoteric programming language?
23:16:05 <oerjan> fungot: you're deploying befunge, right?
23:16:06 <fungot> oerjan: i don't watch too many videos at home, somebody remind me to update my development platform, but hey, it's fun
23:16:22 * oerjan swats function for tab-shadowing -----###
23:16:41 <Phantom_Hoover> <ais523> we should really put that in the topic, but people prefer jokes for some reason
23:17:01 <Phantom_Hoover> we must never forget the importance of being unflinchingly humourless
23:17:19 <ais523> seriously, though, it's basically impossible to use this channel for its intended purpose any more
23:17:27 <ais523> and I consider social channels mostly uninteresting
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23:17:58 <coppro> http://www.mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/papers/qlambdabook.pdf
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23:34:42 <Taneb> ais523, I've found that when someone starts discussing esolangs everyone else normally follows
23:35:18 <ais523> Taneb: no, like one person normally follows, for like 5 minutes :-(