←2014-01-08 2014-01-09 2014-01-10→ ↑2014 ↑all
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00:50:26 <Sgeo> PARSE isn't _quite_ monadic yet
00:51:19 <Taneb> PARSE?
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00:54:30 <shachaf> what's with the word "noetherian"
00:54:42 <Sgeo> http://www.red-lang.org/2013/11/041-introducing-parse.html
00:57:17 <Bike> you got a problem with noether
00:58:11 <shachaf> no
00:58:19 <Bike> k
00:58:25 <shachaf> but what's wrong with "terminating"
00:58:58 <oerjan> shachaf: um terminating does not indicate _what_ terminates.
01:00:02 <oerjan> if you terminate in the other direction you get artinian instead of noetherian hth (btw i don't remember which is which. or for that matter what that chains are made of.)
01:00:27 <oerjan> *the
01:00:31 <shachaf> help
01:00:35 <shachaf> i was talking about rewriting systems
01:00:46 <oerjan> what.
01:00:57 <oerjan> i was talking about rings.
01:01:34 <oerjan> and possibly modules. as i said, i don't remember exactly what terminates.
01:01:39 <Bike> "Noetherian rewriting system, an abstract rewriting system that has no infinite chains" huh
01:02:15 <oerjan> hm i have some doubts noether actually investigated those.
01:02:22 <oerjan> but then maybe she did.
01:02:38 <shachaf> ok i guess noetherian means a zillion things
01:02:54 <Bike> well they mostly have to do with infinite chains, probably.
01:03:02 <oerjan> although not quite as many zillions as eulerian.
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01:22:33 <tswett> All right, all right, I've got it.
01:23:29 <tswett> The fundamental unit of computing could essentially be a region of memory tied to some pieces of code manipulating it, right? Call this whole assembly an "object".
01:23:42 <tswett> Programming could consist simply of combining objects in certain ways.
01:24:15 <{C}> the fundamental unit of computing is the symbol.
01:25:01 <{C}> computation is symbols with rules.
01:25:28 <Bike> the fundamental unit of computation is the string, from which i shall make the ultimate programming language, snobol
01:25:38 <{C}> Bike: thank you, we needed that.
01:25:55 <tswett> It turns out the fundamental unit of computing is actually the troy pound.
01:25:56 <Bike> you always do
01:26:08 <{C}> pffthahaha.
01:26:22 <oerjan> this is why computing feathers is harder than computing gold.
01:26:49 <oerjan> wait should it be lead.
01:26:53 <tswett> So, now I'm thinking.
01:28:03 <oerjan> apparently it can be gold as well.
01:28:13 <{C}> it can. gold is incredibly dense.
01:28:30 <tswett> Suppose we have a "beep" object. The object must be invoked exactly once. The object has no memory, takes no input and produces no output. When the object is invoked, the system beeps.
01:28:34 * oerjan swats {C} -----###
01:28:34 <tswett> What is the type of the object?
01:29:01 <{C}> the type of the object is a beep, derived from noise, derived from a call.
01:29:23 <tswett> (Which system beeps? The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways, obviously.)
01:29:35 <{C}> and you just lost me.
01:30:21 <oerjan> none of you were ever found anyway.
01:31:19 <Bike> what the hell is a type
01:31:46 <shachaf> "C
01:31:50 <shachaf> help
01:31:52 <Bike> oh
01:31:53 <tswett> A type is a property of an abstract object determining the contexts in which it can be meaningfully used.
01:32:02 <tswett> shachaf: stick a colon in front of each of your messages!
01:32:05 <tswett> Like this!
01:32:05 <Bike> what's "abstract" and "context" and "meaning"
01:32:17 <Bike> what are all these shockingly unfundamental things!
01:32:32 <oerjan> Bike: everything hth
01:32:41 <Bike> whoa
01:32:50 <tswett> Bike: consult the Blue Book.
01:32:54 <{C}> zooba wha.
01:33:09 <{C}> blue book? wazzat?
01:33:19 <{C}> what're all of these marvelous things?!
01:33:33 <Bike> i think that was a touhou fan comic
01:34:04 <Phantom_Hoover> the fundamental unit of computing is the volt
01:34:11 <tswett> The Blue Book is also known as "Fundamentals of Philosophy", published by David Zeittler in 2018.
01:34:42 <{C}> fuckin' lol.
01:35:10 <tswett> He describes a complete philosophical framework within which most major philosophical problems can be solved.
01:35:31 <{C}> I'm fully convinced that tswett is insane.
01:35:31 <tswett> It's quite the book. You should read it.
01:36:36 <oerjan> `? mad
01:36:42 <HackEgo> ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
01:37:09 <Bike> hm never heard of that
01:37:54 <tswett> So, where were we. I was trying to figure out the type of an object which must be invoked exactly once, and then returns control.
01:38:40 <tswett> Isn't linear logic supposed to have such a thing...
01:38:49 <oerjan> i think trying to find a fundamental unit of computing always flops.
01:38:53 <shachaf> {C}, sacrifice Linear Interpol: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +4/+4 and have double strike and trample."
01:39:01 <{C}> friggin' lol.
01:39:04 <shachaf> what does {C} even mean
01:39:09 <{C}> I don't even know.
01:39:12 <tswett> Copyright lemon.
01:39:16 <{C}> LOL.
01:39:22 <{C}> I'm keeping that.
01:39:35 <shachaf> no one's buying the act, oklopol
01:41:07 <tswett> Lessee, one lolly one is bottom par one which, in the waiting state, is... some thing, who the hell knows...
01:41:45 <shachaf> just use chu spaces to figure it out
01:41:46 <tswett> How the hell is it determined which of the things in a par is... eh, best not to think about it.
01:41:57 <tswett> The object I mentioned has type Unit -> Unit.
01:41:58 <shachaf> the chu space calculator will even do it
01:42:22 <shachaf> http://chu.stanford.edu/live/
01:42:23 <tswett> You invoke it using a Unit as input. It replies with a Unit as output.
01:43:47 <tswett> Yes, yes.
01:45:16 <tswett> How about an "int" variable? !((Int -> Unit) & (Unit -> Int)), of course.
01:46:41 <tswett> But perhaps an int variable is best seen as an object that can be gotten and set an unlimited number of times.
01:46:55 <tswett> But then I suppose that really, an int variable ought to be destroyed exactly once.
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01:53:12 <Sgeo> Someone claimed that Rebol PARSE and Parsec are in the same class
01:53:46 <tswett> What's Rebol PARSE?
01:54:13 <Sgeo> A DSL that Rebol comes with for parsing
01:54:50 <Sgeo> http://www.red-lang.org/2013/11/041-introducing-parse.html
02:04:07 <Sgeo> Hmm, this is the first time I've heard of Rascal
02:04:33 <Sgeo> Or... hmm, looks familiar, just the page I mean
02:08:18 <Sgeo> The full BF impl is 404ed
02:08:18 <Sgeo> :(
02:09:01 <tswett> Night, all.
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02:19:02 <Sgeo> In order to do closures in Rebol you need to specify that the environment you're closing on (if a function) is a closure when you define it
02:19:16 <Sgeo> :/
02:20:15 <Bike> «@me_irl: i'm going to have a "for dummies" series of technical guides but with names like From Hell's Heart I Stab At... Microsoft SQL»
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02:26:43 <Sgeo> kmc: http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/concepts/modules-loading.html
02:26:55 <Sgeo> Check out the section "Validating modules with a hash checksum"
02:27:23 <Sgeo> Seems more thoughtful than you'd expect from a language that's ok with running code directly from the Internet
02:29:01 <kmc> cool
02:32:06 <pikhq> Lots of languagesw are fine with that.
02:32:13 <pikhq> I mean, curl | sh is an idiom, right?
02:32:38 <Bike> well, i for one don't think of shell as "thoughtful"
02:33:14 <kmc> a thoughtful, minimalist, artisinal shell, done right
02:33:23 <kmc> a shell that celebrates craftsmanship
02:33:23 <Bike> hand-crafted
02:33:39 <kmc> "the slow fourier transform movement"
02:37:21 <oerjan> transforming while you eat carefully prepared food and watch the next norwegian real-time documentary on grass growing.
02:37:42 <oerjan> (no, i don't think that documentary has been made yet, although it's inevitable.)
02:38:07 <kmc> i'm sick of documentaries about grass growing, i want a gritty antihero drama about grass growing
02:38:12 <kmc> ...... probably been done fsvo "grass"
02:38:18 <Bike> developmental biology is cool :<
02:38:55 <Bike> i mean, just focusing a camera on it isn't going to be any better than focusing a camera on hitler as he goes on and on about music
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02:51:04 <Sgeo> "A function that is used as an infix operator. Examples are +, -, [bad-link:functions/z-gtb-lt.txt] and /."
02:51:52 <Bike> dee
02:51:52 <Bike> p
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04:16:08 <kmc> are there fullwidth versions of æ and Æ and such?
04:17:30 <pikhq> Doesn't seem to be.
04:17:35 <kmc> :'(
04:17:44 <kmc> also they should have them for ☹ and ☺
04:18:22 <kmc> Bike: I would buy From Hell's Heart I Stab At Microsoft SQL
04:19:16 <pikhq> So would many of my coworkers.
04:19:31 <olsner> I've never dealt with microsoft sql ... is it bad?
04:19:33 <kmc> Bike: also I was confused about the weird way you were quoting yourself, before I figured it out
04:19:38 <kmc> olsner: it's software, so yes
04:19:44 <pikhq> Yup.
04:19:54 <pikhq> Microsoft somehow is amazing at hardware.
04:20:26 <Bike> i wasn't quoting myself
04:20:30 <olsner> pikhq: I think it's because they don't make it themselves
04:20:41 <Bike> i don't joke
04:20:59 <kmc> Bike is serious like a heart attack
04:23:28 <oerjan> sneak attack, bike
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04:43:31 <kmc> til there's a band named The Internet
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04:56:11 <oerjan> but still no Main Page?
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04:57:48 <kmc> afaik
04:57:55 <kmc> larry page should have a kid and name them Main Page
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04:58:21 <oerjan> itt we recommend people how to get sued by their kids
04:59:32 <Bike> i know at least one person who named their kid after an anime character, the future is weird
04:59:51 <kmc> i know siblings named Zarathustra and Galadriel
05:02:36 <kmc> hm my hands are covered in glitter
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05:14:46 <oerjan> kmc: i can disconfirm that saying Zarathustra and Galadriel causes this effect in general hth
05:14:54 <oerjan> (darn)
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06:05:04 <oklopol> so i switched from xp to linux mint since it's going to explode soon, and since i had some trouble getting internet to work in chile
06:05:22 <oklopol> now every morning starts with 10 minutes of waiting for it to wake up or with a restart
06:06:08 <oklopol> is this a particularly bad linux or is xp just a particularly good os?
06:07:14 <oklopol> (to be fair, apart from the morning sickness, this is much faster than xp)
06:07:47 <olsner> computers are often tested and made to work with windows, less often with linux
06:10:28 <oklopol> yeah this is not even one of the few linuxes they list on their webpage
06:10:36 <oklopol> i mean the manufacturer or whatevererer
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06:11:04 <oklopol> it's a lenovo thinkpad and i was a bit skeptical how well linux would work because they seemed to have made some hacks on top of windows
06:11:31 <kmc> thinkpads have pretty good linux support generally
06:11:40 <oklopol> because for example the list of available networks was always empty, and instead you used this magical black thinkpad window to connect
06:11:50 <kmc> did you check out thinkwiki for your model
06:11:55 <oklopol> nope
06:12:20 <oklopol> holy crap there's a wiki dedicated to this.
06:12:27 <oklopol> why do i ever do anything without asking here first
06:13:03 <oklopol> (or googling)
06:15:29 <oklopol> (although it's a bit hard to google much when the reason you are installing linux is that you cannot access the internet)
06:15:34 <oklopol> (or ask here)
06:15:40 <oklopol> (or fucking live?!?!?)
06:16:28 <olsner> it's annoyingly common that the first thing you need internet for is downloading network drivers
06:20:19 <Bike> god, yes.
06:20:33 * Bike spent a whole day doing so gggghggh
06:20:38 <quintopia> good thing we all have backup computers eh
06:26:37 <olsner> fun fact: Eureka (the tv series) had a cure for the common cold, but allegedly it was simply too expensive to make
06:27:27 <shachaf> whoa, whoa, whoa, new catsters videos
06:27:47 <olsner> whoa, whoa, whoa! what are catsters videos?
06:28:39 <shachaf> http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCatsters
06:40:49 <fizzie> If "waiting for it to wake up" means some sort of suspend mode, those are often remarkably flaky on Linux.
06:41:15 <fizzie> I don't think I've personally ever had a laptop with an entirely working suspend-resume behavior in Linux.
06:44:44 <shachaf> Do you mean suspend-to-disk or just regular suspend?
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07:00:16 <fizzie> Either, really. But maybe suspend-to-disk has been slightly more reliable, IME.
07:00:33 <shachaf> regular suspend works fine for me
07:00:48 <shachaf> and also worked fine on N previous laptops
07:00:49 <fizzie> Some people just have all the luck, I guess.
07:02:35 <shachaf> i do keep a rabbit's foot in the same bag i put the computer in
07:03:36 <shachaf> it is connected to a rabbit
07:03:45 <shachaf> the previous two statements are false
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08:24:43 <oklopol> fizzie: i don't have any suspend mode
08:24:56 <oklopol> not even anything resembling a screensaver
08:37:00 <oklopol> it just gets lonely i guess
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12:20:03 <ion> The Awful Games Done Quick part is up. Next up: Attack of the Killer Tomatoes and E.T. http://de.twitch.tv/speeddemosarchivesda
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13:05:04 <boily> good unidling morning!
13:06:10 <fizzie> What sort of a dling is a uni-dling?
13:07:19 <boily> it's the Whole Entire Uni-Versal Dling of Them All.
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15:30:09 <ion> Shaun! http://youtu.be/0t0uCWjQ6Og
15:30:39 <boily> shaun, as in the sheep of the same name?
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16:08:37 <Taneb> :(
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16:10:01 <Taneb> I found a shop that sells typewriter ribbon so I bought some but it isn't compatible with my typewriter
16:11:45 <ion> An excellent video in which a professional corrects some common misunderstandings about digital audio. (Those 192 kHz/24 bit music downloads are just a waste of disk space.) http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml
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16:20:50 <boily> quintopia: I watched it during the holidays. it was an ok movie.
16:21:02 <boily> Taneb: buy a new typewriter?
16:23:32 <quintopia> boily: :\ but it's hilarious!
16:25:29 <olsner> oh, a simon pegg movie I haven't seen
16:29:03 <Taneb> boily, expeeensiiiiibe
16:29:12 <Taneb> *-ve
16:30:24 <boily> that much? I don't know what's the average MSRP for a middle-end typewriter?
16:30:42 <boily> s?\?$?.?
16:35:50 <Taneb> No idea
16:35:59 <Taneb> But I got this one for £5 at a charity shop
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17:30:48 <fizzie> I am feeling very stupef now.
17:30:49 <fizzie> Ordered a replacement DVD drive, because the old one had started to make this every-now-and-then-about-once-a-day series of seeking/"bootup" noises (even with no disc), and no longer read anything.
17:30:54 <fizzie> The new drive arrived today; after opening up the box to install it, discovered that the SATA data cable was kinda-sorta half-loose.
17:30:57 <fizzie> After plugging that in, the old drive seems to work just fine. :/
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17:54:03 <mrhmouse> Damn :( Well, now you can watch _two_ DVDs!
17:55:43 <fizzie> Actually I was thinking I'm going to take advantage of the guaranteed 14-day for-free return period for internet shopping. But I'm still a bit ashamed to be wasting the shop's money.
17:56:51 <fizzie> Oh well. I bought my last graphics card from them, let's hope it had enough of a profit margin to cover mailing a small box around a bit.
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18:02:09 <olsner> this orange juice is enriched with "one of the most studied species of bacteria"
18:02:22 <olsner> (luckily not e. coli)
18:03:09 <quintopia> "this tea is enriched with one of the most studied species of microscopic flatworm"
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18:03:35 <tswett> So what's with Chu spaces?
18:04:14 <quintopia> C h u
18:06:00 <mrhmouse> *audience laughter*
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18:11:15 <tswett> Whoa, what? This says bottom times bottom is top.
18:13:45 <boily> quintopia: I'm not a fussy eater, I'll gladly eat just about anything, and drink stuff that may have been somewhat liquid in its distant past but now evolved to a new phase, but... flatworms???
18:17:15 <boily> oh. you were being biologically sarcastic.
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18:27:01 <boily> ~metar CYUL
18:27:01 <metasepia> CYUL 091800Z 26008KT 15SM FEW030 M09/M16 A3059 RMK SC1 SC TR SLP361
18:28:53 <boily> ~metar EFHK
18:28:53 <metasepia> EFHK 091820Z 06003KT 9999 FEW015 BKN023 03/02 Q0997 NOSIG
18:29:25 <tswett> ~metar VHDK
18:29:26 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
18:29:45 <tswett> ~metar KLHS
18:29:45 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
18:29:56 <tswett> ~metar LMCP
18:29:57 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
18:30:07 <int-e> ~metar ICMP
18:30:08 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
18:30:27 <tswett> ~metar TLHA
18:30:27 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
18:30:34 <tswett> ~metar OBLC
18:30:34 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
18:30:59 <tswett> I now have statistically significant evidence that if I ~metar an arbitrary string of four letters, there's less than a 50% chance I'll have hit a real station.
18:31:52 <boily> ~metar ZUUU
18:31:52 <metasepia> ZUUU 091800Z 02005MPS 7000 SCT050 06/02 Q1023 NOSIG
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18:38:21 <tswett> Eh? I asked Wolfie for a confidence interval, with a confidence level of 0.95, given a sample size of 5 and a sample proportion of 0.
18:38:43 <tswett> It says the actual chance of hitting a real station is probably less than 2.2*10
18:38:54 <tswett> 2.2*10^-308.
18:39:13 <tswett> (The actual chance of hitting a real station is certainly less than 2.2*10.)
18:40:08 <olsner> > 26^4
18:40:09 <lambdabot> 456976
18:41:01 <quintopia> boily: also the fact that C. elegans is awesome (or is that a roundworm?)
18:41:58 <olsner> yes, that's a roundworm
18:43:29 <olsner> oh, c. elegans caused a nobel prize, that's not bad for a wee roundworm
18:43:48 <tswett> Okay, Clopper-Pearson gives a more realistic answer. It says the probability is probably at most 0.5218.
18:44:37 <tswett> Jeffreys says it's probably at most 0.3794. Oddly, it also says it's probably at least 9.342*10^-5.
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18:46:56 <boily> `quote statistics
18:46:58 <HackEgo> 608) <twice11> Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap. <twice11> You measure a third point if you need an error estimate. \ 1130) <boily> everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers.
18:47:38 <tswett> Statistics with one data point is mathematics.
18:48:05 <tswett> If I pick a random person from the world population, and that person is female, I can conclude that there exists at least one female.
18:49:09 <boily> I find that conclusion presumptuous, you vile cishet male! check your privileges!
18:51:07 <boily> (meanwhile, I received the manga I ordered! :D)
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18:52:35 <elliott> boily: dumb
18:52:53 <boily> elliott: what am I dumbing?
19:01:53 * boily , undertaking great risks with such a dangerous gesture, mapoles elliott
19:08:59 -!- stuntaneous has joined.
19:12:26 <boily> `relcome stuntaneous
19:12:29 <HackEgo> stuntaneous: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:12:52 <mrhmouse> `ello stuntaneous
19:12:54 <HackEgo> hellstuntaneous
19:13:07 <mrhmouse> sure, close enough
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19:28:00 <myname> is there a shm-script?
19:28:41 <myname> like s/([^aeiou]+)(.*)/\1\2 shm\2/
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19:30:58 <quintopia> boily: i find it strange that your list of common continuous distributions did not include normal
19:31:07 <boily> `run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\nsed -e \'s/([^aeiou]+)(.*)/\1\2 shm\2/\' "$@"' >bin/shmify
19:31:09 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `echo -e '#!/bin/sh\nsed -e \'s/([^aeiou]+)(.*)/\1\2 shm\2/\' "$@"' >bin/shmify'
19:31:32 <boily> quintopia: it's something that irks me to no end, to have a statistics `quote without that PDF.
19:31:41 <myname> also, there needs to be ^ and $
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19:32:02 <myname> ^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$
19:32:07 <boily> myname: please do it. my '"'"'"'-fu is weak today.
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19:32:26 <myname> erm
19:33:42 <olsner> boily: \ in ' does nothing, so \' is a literal backslash and the end of the quoted string
19:34:46 <olsner> fun way to put a literal ' in a '-quoted string: '"'"'
19:34:59 <myname> oh dear
19:35:13 <myname> that's even worse than what visual basic does
19:36:19 <olsner> ('\'' might be more readable, but less fun)
19:37:38 <myname> `run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\nsed -e '"'"'s/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/'"'"' "$@"' >bin/shmify
19:37:42 <myname> `run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\nsed -e '"'"'s/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/'"'"' "$@"' >bin/shmify
19:37:45 <HackEgo> No output.
19:38:03 <myname> `run shmify baby
19:38:05 <HackEgo> bash: /hackenv/bin/shmify: Permission denied
19:38:11 <myname> ~~
19:38:11 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
19:38:27 <olsner> `shmify baby
19:38:28 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/shmify: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/shmify: cannot execute: Permission denied
19:38:42 <boily> `run chmod 0755 bin/shmify
19:38:45 <HackEgo> No output.
19:38:51 <boily> `shmify mogrify
19:38:52 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 31: invalid reference \2 on `s' command's RHS
19:39:04 <myname> what
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19:42:22 <olsner> hmm, "$@" as an argument to sed? did you mean echo | sed, or should it be used like \? "$@" | shmify?
19:47:14 <myname> hmm, maybe
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19:59:44 <Slereah> Would the regex for all the names of Ghaddafi be ^[^qgk]h?add?h?af?fi$
20:00:02 <kmc> there's a stacoverfluw qusetion about that
20:00:05 <kmc> can't be bothered to spell sorry
20:00:31 <Slereah> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5365283/regular-expression-to-search-for-gadaffi
20:00:35 <Slereah> Indeed there is
20:01:13 <Slereah> \b[KGQ]h?add?h?af?fi\b
20:01:26 <Slereah> Yesss
20:01:30 <Slereah> Perfect score
20:02:23 <olsner> but are all combinations for each choice valid, or are there just three or something different transliteration schemes?
20:03:38 <Gregor> I doubt that "Qhaddhaffi" gets much use, but if it ever appeared at all, I expect it would be Gadaffi.
20:03:44 <olsner> hmm, not that people would follow any given scheme consistently anyway
20:04:02 <Slereah> olsner : http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2009/09/how-many-different-ways-can-you-spell-gaddafi/
20:04:10 <Slereah> Apparently Kaddafi just did not give a fuck
20:04:28 <Slereah> Qadthafi
20:04:30 <Slereah> whaaat
20:05:25 <olsner> oh, and are there many spellings in arabic too, or is there a single correct original spelling?
20:06:50 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:07:29 <olsner> `unidecode القذافي
20:07:31 <HackEgo> ​[U+0627 ARABIC LETTER ALEF] [U+0644 ARABIC LETTER LAM] [U+0642 ARABIC LETTER QAF] [U+0630 ARABIC LETTER THAL] [U+0627 ARABIC LETTER ALEF] [U+0641 ARABIC LETTER FEH] [U+064A ARABIC LETTER YEH]
20:08:02 <boily> qaf thal?
20:08:11 <boily> oh right. vowels.
20:10:02 <olsner> I think those are the names of the letters, not the pronunciation
20:10:31 <olsner> so... qthafy?
20:11:04 <boily> al-qafthalaleffehyeh. ← I prefer that version.
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21:54:43 <Vorpal> Are there any command line tools or python libraries or similar to easily extract data from HTML pages. Lets say, finding new posts on some web site without RSS feeds, that sort of stuff.
21:55:15 <Vorpal> I don't particlarly enjoy parsing HTML, and I doubt an XML parser would like this particular HTML either
21:56:23 <kmc> Beautiful Soup is a good Python library for web scraping
21:57:03 <kmc> it deals with the kind of terrible HTML found in the wild
21:57:14 <kmc> the other approach I would suggest is PhantomJS / CasperJS, which runs a real (headless) WebKit browser instance and lets you interrogate it with javascript
21:57:29 <kmc> that lets you scrape even very dynamic sites
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22:05:07 <Vorpal> kmc, thanks
22:05:50 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:06:05 <Vorpal> I'll avoid the js path if possible since I don't really know js all that well
22:06:13 -!- tromp has joined.
22:06:52 <kmc> looks like you can use PhantomJS from Python as well: http://www.realpython.com/blog/python/headless-selenium-testing-with-python-and-phantomjs/#.Us8db5WVthE
22:07:36 <kmc> JavaScript is a fairly shitty language but it's also simple, especially if you're just writing "scripts" and not trying to architect a large application
22:08:02 <kmc> my main advice is to get a program like jslint or jshint and pay attention to its warnings, even if you end up disabling some
22:08:34 <Vorpal> Basically I discovered that the feeds provided by youtube behind the scenes (not easy to find) lags behind, and the web site I normally used (youtube video deck) recently started missing a few posted videos. And do not even speak of the subscription list on youtube, it is terrible. I haven't seen the channel pages fail though
22:09:08 <Vorpal> So my plan is to scrape them for all my subscriptions and diff the result (plus add in some system to mark videos as watched)
22:09:49 <Vorpal> Then I'll probably throw this up on my nginx web server running on my RPi so I can use it from my tablet as well.
22:10:45 <Vorpal> Not sure how to best do the page generation on the RPi though... cron script is probably easiest?
22:11:08 <kmc> if you run nginx on an RPi does it become an ЯPi
22:12:10 <Vorpal> good point
22:12:18 <kmc> thx
22:12:38 <Vorpal> I run ssh, nfs, samba, ipv6 tunnel, openvpn tunnel and a few other things on it too
22:12:55 <Vorpal> 512 MB RAM goes a long way when you don't use a GUI
22:13:57 <kmc> yep
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22:19:04 <tswett> Hey guys.
22:20:15 <tswett> So it seems like first-order logic is a lot more popular than second-order logic. Why is this? Is it because of its simplicity and Gödel's completeness theorem?
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22:58:31 <Vorpal> kmc, wrt js being for scripts, so is python to quite a large degree
23:04:04 <oerjan> `cat bin/shmify
23:04:05 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ sed -e 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/' "$@"
23:04:34 <mauke> `shmify maechtig
23:04:35 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 31: invalid reference \2 on `s' command's RHS
23:04:55 <oerjan> i was wondering about that
23:06:05 <oerjan> `cat bin/thanks
23:06:06 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_.";
23:06:20 <oerjan> hm different method.
23:07:13 <oerjan> `run echo sed | sed -e 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/'
23:07:14 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 31: invalid reference \2 on `s' command's RHS
23:07:23 <oerjan> `run echo sed | sed -e 's/^([^aeiou]\+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/'
23:07:25 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 32: invalid reference \2 on `s' command's RHS
23:07:33 <oerjan> `run echo sed | sed -e 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm/'
23:07:34 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 29: invalid reference \2 on `s' command's RHS
23:07:52 <oerjan> `run echo 's/^([^aeiou]\+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/'
23:07:54 <HackEgo> s/^([^aeiou]\+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/
23:08:47 <oerjan> `run echo sed | sed -e 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1/'
23:08:48 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 23: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS
23:08:56 <olsner> `run echo sed | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]\+\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/'
23:08:58 <HackEgo> sed shmed
23:09:27 <oerjan> ah it was all that non-perly syntax
23:09:49 <oerjan> `cat bin/shmify
23:09:50 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ sed -e 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/' "$@"
23:09:51 <kmc> Vorpal: I didn't say that either is "for scripts"
23:09:58 <kmc> I said that there's less to learn if you're only using them for scripts
23:10:02 <kmc> that's probably true of any language
23:10:11 <oerjan> that "$@" is also obviously wrong.
23:10:21 <kmc> but it's especially true of JavaScript, because the design patterns for large applications are just design patterns and not things built into the language
23:11:30 <oerjan> `run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | sed -e '\''s/^\([^aeiou]\+\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/'\'' >bin/shmify
23:11:31 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
23:11:35 <oerjan> `run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | sed -e '\''s/^\([^aeiou]\+\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/'\'') >bin/shmify
23:11:36 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
23:12:00 <oerjan> `run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | sed -e '\''s/^\([^aeiou]\+\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/'\') >bin/shmify
23:12:04 <HackEgo> No output.
23:12:12 <oerjan> `shmify fnord
23:12:13 <HackEgo> fnord shmord
23:12:58 <mauke> `shmify maechtig
23:12:59 <HackEgo> maechtig shmaechtig
23:13:22 <olsner> `shmify oerjan
23:13:23 <HackEgo> oerjan
23:13:51 <olsner> `run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | sed -e '\''s/^\([^aeiou]*\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/'\') >bin/shmify
23:13:53 <olsner> `shmify oerjan
23:13:55 <HackEgo> No output.
23:13:56 <HackEgo> oerjan shmoerjan
23:14:51 <oerjan> yeah i was also thinking it should be *
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23:19:47 <Vorpal> <kmc> that's probably true of any language <-- well yeah
23:20:57 <Vorpal> good night
23:21:15 <kmc> 'night
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