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02:36:14 <Sgeo> Life gain is usually considered weak, right? Looks like Sunbound makes it better?
02:38:18 <Sgeo> Ok. Eternity Snare is expensive. Eternity Snare lets you draw a card, but at the cost of making one of your creatures hard to untap
02:38:23 <Sgeo> That.... seems a bit silly
02:38:45 <zzo38> You can enchant opponent's cards too not only your own
02:38:57 <Sgeo> Oh, good point, thank you
02:40:57 <Sgeo> I should look for that mythic rare I have lying around
02:41:10 <Sgeo> All I remember offhand is that it's green
02:41:26 <Sgeo> And that I might be misremembering if it's mythic rare or rare
02:41:39 <Sgeo> And that I got it in 2012
02:43:23 <shachaf> i think i have two magic: the gathering cards that are mythic rare
02:47:29 <Sgeo> Is it just me, or is Vortex Elemental _very_ good in some situations?
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03:56:49 <Sgeo> What block was released in 2012?
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04:48:10 <Sgeo> http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3352&type=card
04:48:15 <Sgeo> Why are Endbringers talking?
04:48:23 <Sgeo> Why do they exist in the Magic universe?
04:50:06 <zzo38> I once wrote a program to generate a booster pack for any official set and print out proxies, although I don't think it works anymore since they changed the system.
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05:55:07 <zzo38> Are you aware of the ZPAQ format?
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05:58:49 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: http://mattmahoney.net/dc/zpaq203.pdf ?
05:59:45 <lifthrasiir> it felt to me like a Vorbis setup page (notorious for its relatively large initialization setp)
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06:04:25 <zzo38> lifthrasiir: Yes, that one
06:05:03 <lifthrasiir> last time I've seen that there was no journaling format nor encrypted format
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07:41:41 <zzo38> I like their ideas that the decompression is included part of the file so that you can use custom algorithms and predictors, although I would think a lot more compression is possible. ZPAQ may also be slow, however.
07:43:26 <lifthrasiir> I was pondering about the self-extracting portable game format (a la Z machine) with a reasonably fast VM.
07:45:45 <zzo38> But Z-machine is different than that.
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07:47:11 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: yeah, I was talking about the positioning from the user's perspective, the resulting format will be much more versatile.
07:48:46 <zzo38> I don't know what you mean by a self-extracting portable game format though.
07:53:35 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: hmm, what I was having in mind was something like GBA ROM, which acts as a "portable" game format with a defined VM semantics. "self-extracting" means that it is designed for compactness, maybe hundreds of KBs maximum.
07:54:52 <lifthrasiir> I do agree that my idea (if it can be called as an idea after all) is too vague
08:01:24 <zzo38> Ah, OK. Yes, GBA ROM format does do such a thing but maybe it is too complicated. I can understand what you mean now though.
08:06:44 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: yarr run rc part faq arr
08:08:47 <zzo38> I wanted to use format that it could fit in one or two QR codes without normally being too large, but maybe that is difficult.
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08:31:11 <coppro> I have immense respect for doctors
08:31:31 <coppro> they have to debug shitty haphazard code that's literally full of bugs, some of which are in fact required for proper operation
08:32:19 <coppro> for the most part they debug using observed behaviour, although there's a poor built-in diagnostic tool in the voice interface, as well as the ability to perform more advanced but still limited diagnostics at great cost
08:34:35 <coppro> nobody really understands the code any more, it's a matter of significant debate whether anyone ever did, and in practice the only real way to do any actual work is to try things and see what happens
08:35:18 <coppro> thankfully the system is fairly resilient, because it can't be rebooted, but you have to account for the fact that you have extremely wonky behaviour where something can affect something seemingly unrelated
08:36:18 <coppro> not to mention that a significant amount of the program is run by several competing layers of AI, with varying amounts of access to the program's functions and varying levels of sophistication. And sometimes the AI is buggy.
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08:43:32 <ais523> coppro: talking about AIs that are sometimes buggy, I was working a bunch on optimizing aimake
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08:43:54 <ais523> it now does backwards chaining internally to work out which order to run rules in, falling back to its previous behaviour (forward chaining) when that doesn't help (i.e. rule outputs aren't known)
08:44:10 <ais523> which means it wastes a lot less time trying to work out which rules are runnable, it's around twice as fast now
08:44:20 <ais523> so there's the "-j2" you were asking for ;-)
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09:30:28 <Sgeo> Zendikar boosters sometimes contained Power Nine cards?!?!?
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09:31:07 <oerjan> ais523: FIX YOU CONNECTION MKAY
09:31:19 <ais523> oerjan: I don't own this connection, it's borrowed
09:31:29 <oerjan> STEAL ONE THAT WORKS MKAY
09:31:48 <Sgeo> So, time to administer a turing-test to ais523?
09:31:54 <ais523> also I'm intentionally using a bad connection so that I don't end up getting sidetracked and wasting too much time online
09:32:35 <oerjan> that's ok but we'll have to ban you if you keep cycling mkay
09:32:54 <ais523> let me take the channel off autojoin for a while, then
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09:36:43 <Sgeo> "Contraption is a new artifact type. There are currently no artifacts with this type. And there's no current game meaning of "assemble.""
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10:25:30 <fizzie> "Dear Colleagues, We are pleased to announce the sixt issue of the International Journal Transactions on Machine Learning and Data Mining, (ISSN: 1865-6781), Volume 6 - Number 2 - Ocotber 2013 --" I'm not sure I trust a journal that misspells "sixth" (both in subject and body) and "October" in their spam.
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11:08:04 <callforjudgement> gah, I just had to block a spambot for 23 years instead of the usual 14
11:08:36 <callforjudgement> I guess this is the end of 24-year blocks at Esolang, at least until someone fixes the date situatoin
11:09:39 <fizzie> Where does the number 24 come from?
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11:14:05 <scarf> fizzie: it was because the default used to be "24 hours", and graue change it to "24 years" because it was the fastest long period of time to produce with keyboard movements
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12:33:48 <fizzie> Huh, a conference deadline *was not extended*. Strange.
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13:18:18 <metasepia> CYUL 271300Z 01013KT 3/4SM -SN OVC013 M15/M17 A2930 RMK SN4NS4 SLP926
13:19:24 <metasepia> EFHK 271250Z 09011KT 9999 -SN BKN010 M09/M11 Q1026 NOSIG
13:19:41 <fizzie> It got warm here, though.
13:19:46 <metasepia> LOWI 271250Z VRB01KT 9999 FEW015 SCT060 BKN100 02/M00 Q0999 R08/490345 NOSIG
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13:53:24 <ais523_> "Figure 1 gives a nice minesweeper puzzle to think about. If you find it easy you probably are a real minesweeper addict, and are getting to be quite good at the game" <-- I found a solution in like 10 seconds, not because I'm good at Minesweeper, but because the text implied there was only one solution
13:53:45 <ais523_> and knowing there was only one solution, noticed that as the puzzle was symmetrical, the solution must be too
13:53:59 <ais523_> this is a nice general-purpose method for solving many types of puzzles
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13:59:55 <boily> speaking of puzzles, I tried my hand at Ninja Twins yesterday → http://dev.kronbits.com/ninjatwins
14:00:23 <boily> the puzzles in that game are evil.
14:15:01 <nortti> " Item is Latin for "as well as"; the fact that it ended up preceding each object in a list gave it its modern usage. "
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14:30:41 <ais523_> oklopol: it was a Minesweeper puzzle on a 6x6 grid; the four centre squares are all 0, the squares immediately adjacent to them (including diagonals) are all 2s, the other squares are unknown
14:30:44 <ais523_> and you have to place the mines
14:30:58 <ais523_> without information on how many there are
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14:35:05 <oklopol> ais523_: many things become easier if you just know that solutions are unique
14:35:29 <oklopol> for example, it's much faster to parse context free languages if you know the grammar gives unique presentations for words
14:35:46 <oklopol> (even if there's no actual "reason" for determinism like LL or LR)
14:35:59 <ais523_> how difficult is it to prove that a context free language is unambiguous? actually undecidable, or just a horrendous computational class?
14:36:41 <oklopol> it's undecidable because emptiness of intersection is undecidable
14:37:20 <oklopol> because you can express the language w_1#w_2#...#w_n where w_{2i + 1} is the next step of a turing machine from w_{2i}
14:37:38 <oklopol> and you can do the same for w_{2i+1} vs w_{2i+2}
14:37:58 <oklopol> and intersection is then nonempty iff the turing machine halts (because w_n has to be a halting config in both, which is regular to check)
14:38:14 <oklopol> (by regular i mean checkable by FSM)
14:38:40 <int-e> Right. I'd use PCP, but that's essentially the same.
14:38:52 <oklopol> yeah i'm just eliminating a step
14:39:04 <oklopol> to prove pcp undecidable, you do essentially what i said
14:39:06 <int-e> Post's Correspondence Problem.
14:39:16 <int-e> oklopol: Yes, I know. Hence "essentially the same" :)
14:41:55 <boily> int-e: interesting.
14:42:10 * boily has esolanging ideas...
14:46:14 <oklopol> ais523_: i have the solution and proof of uniqueness
14:46:43 <oklopol> (i needed a bit of case analysis)
14:47:02 <ais523_> yeah, I think the author overestimates how hard the puzzle is, or perhaps is going about it the wrong way
14:48:58 <oklopol> well finding _a_ solution is of course rather trivial
14:50:06 <oklopol> and in a row of 2s you use a 110110110 pattern, i can imagine that the correct solution is the most likely guess
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14:50:29 <oklopol> (i didn't think, i let math tell me the solution)
14:54:25 <int-e> sorry, which puzzle?
14:55:04 <int-e> the minesweeper one?
14:58:45 <int-e> Not too difficult. We have to split the corner 2s among the two sides; but 022 is impossible, so that 1221 on each side is the only possibility left.
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16:27:20 <quintopia> how tohow to give a functional alcoholic strong, static typing?
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16:45:34 <coppro> Any continental Europeans around?
16:45:44 <coppro> (nordic countries count)
16:56:41 <int-e> boily: hmm. how do the ninja twins sliding blocks work?
16:57:12 <kmc> fungot: did you enjoy the free continental breakfast
16:57:12 <fungot> kmc: but you should strive for good hygiene, that's always the fun part isn't it
16:57:29 <kmc> fungot: 420 wash hands everyday
16:57:29 <fungot> kmc: like an evil version of kibo i take it you fnord for it... :) it don't use the mouse
17:00:57 <metasepia> KATL 271652Z 33011KT 10SM FEW038 SCT060 SCT110 14/04 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP139 T01440039
17:01:16 <quintopia> i like metasepia. it uses a prefix character that my phone is capable of typing
17:03:45 <int-e> I guess the answer is that the linux version's game logic is broken
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17:27:43 <kmc> https://github.com/vhf/free-programming-books/blob/master/free-programming-books.md
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17:41:38 <quintopia> whenever i try to imagine what Mobius Chess would look like, it always looks like absolute carnage that ends in a draw...
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17:44:10 <oerjan> <callforjudgement> Y2038 problem strikes early :-( <-- wat.
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17:46:12 <coppro> nooodl: are you proud of your health care system?
17:47:00 <metasepia> ENVA 271720Z 12016KT CAVOK M01/M11 Q1010 TEMPO 11022G35KT RMK WIND 670FT 14016KT
17:47:17 <oerjan> that /M11 means the weather is ridiculously dry, right?
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17:49:00 <oerjan> i understand some parts of northern norway haven't had precipitation since new year
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18:01:04 * oerjan solves ais523's minesweeper puzzle without assuming uniqueness.
18:01:28 <oerjan> just because that's the sort of thing i do.
18:01:55 <shachaf> you also gotta solve it without assuming existence
18:04:26 <oerjan> that... sounds tricky to define in a way that doesn't seriously cramp your logic
18:05:22 <Ngevd> Is there an imperative esolang wherin all instructions modify state?
18:05:25 <shachaf> well, presumably it just means that you don't know whether there's a solution or not
18:05:35 <boily> int-e: they slide one cell when you bump into them, and gravity affects them.
18:05:36 <shachaf> which i think the usual case
18:05:45 <boily> (and damn, that mac'n'cheese was good!)
18:06:02 <oerjan> shachaf: yes, but the _first_ step is do assume there is a solution to either deduce its properties or get a contradiction
18:07:55 <shachaf> hm, maybe it is tricky to define
18:09:06 <boily> quinthellopia. enjoying a drink?
18:10:55 <int-e> boily: yes, as I wrote, the linux version is broken (for me). the flash version makes more sense.
18:11:30 <boily> int-e: oh hm. I seem to have missed that part of the conversation. I'm frying my brain over the Ouya Version.
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18:13:04 <int-e> I'm only up to level 11. tricky :)
18:13:58 <oerjan> <coppro> Any continental Europeans around? <-- now there is.
18:14:27 <nooodl> "<Ngevd> Is there an imperative esolang wherin all instructions modify state?" <- brainfuck?
18:14:48 <kmc> . doesn't modify state
18:15:05 <kmc> also all the comment characters, if those count as "instructions"
18:15:24 <int-e> unlambda? hey, code, data, what's the difference ...
18:15:35 <kmc> nooodl: if that counts then it seems like a pretty trivial question
18:15:48 <nooodl> yeah i'm not sure what counts as state and what doesn't
18:16:08 <coppro> oerjan: are you proud of your health care system?
18:16:18 <boily> fungot: do you state state with your changed states, or is state implicit, and therefore stateful state?
18:16:37 <fungot> boily: i've checked legal ages of all countries suck. big time. ( tuples aren't _quite_ dotted lists: ' in the intuitive notion where there's actually a lot more excited by the coming reload, it crashes
18:16:55 <coppro> so I've been thinking about the wire-crossing problem
18:16:58 <kmc> fungot: are you proud of your health care system?
18:16:58 <fungot> kmc: so all that will have to
18:17:11 <oerjan> coppro: it could be better, but it could be _far_ worse.
18:17:17 <kmc> i'm american, ask me if i'm proud of my health care system
18:17:29 <coppro> kmc: I already know the answer
18:17:35 <coppro> oerjan: sure, but are you *proud* of it
18:18:24 <coppro> re: wcp: could we not look at this as a problem to consider whether the entire possible state space of a machine is planar? I suspect the answer in that case is no
18:18:41 <oerjan> coppro: isn't this a bit like asking a fish if it's proud of the water.
18:19:39 <coppro> oerjan: well canadians are reasonably proud, and apparently it's a Big Thing in the UK
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18:25:22 <kmc> canadians are proud because it's #1 on "why canada is better than america" ;)
18:26:06 <boily> our system is... well... I don't know for Ontarians and other Provinces, but here in Québec it's being profundly, deeply mismanaged.
18:26:38 <boily> unless you're suffering from an urgent emergency where you may die in the next hour, expect to wait. and wait. and wait. and wait...
18:33:53 <coppro> boily: it's the same across the country
18:35:02 <coppro> I went in last night with a blockage in my esophagus, which is really painful and somewhat dangerous (because I couldn't really swallow anything, and choking was a serious risk if I tried). it took me several hours to get a can of coke
18:35:16 <coppro> which apparently has enzymes which help dissolve it
18:35:31 <coppro> I'm pretty sure that by that point I'd basically coughed the thing up so it just needed a little nudging
18:47:35 <quintopia> TIL every image on what-if.xkcd.com has alt-text jokes and half of the citations are jokes too.
18:47:51 <quintopia> also that the pile of all viruses would be about the size of Mount Royal
18:48:25 <boily> Mont Royal for the win!
18:50:33 <oerjan> quintopia: not _every_ image. there's a few mystery left-outs.
18:50:57 <quintopia> oerjan: there's a lot of what ifs. and i only just realized. so i haven't looked at them all yet.
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18:57:34 <oklopol> i noticed the alts right away, but citations took me a while
18:57:46 <oklopol> everything was so easy to believe i guess
19:00:02 <kmc> ahem it's actually title-text not alt-text [pushes up glasses]
19:01:13 <kmc> also did you know, you can put a title attribute on ~any element to give it a tooltip
19:01:24 <kmc> data:text/html,<div title="foo">bar</div>
19:02:24 <shachaf> wait, isn't that what title does
19:03:43 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
19:05:09 <quintopia> kmc: either way, there's no way to display it on many mobile browsers, and there appears to be no mobile version that provides an alternate way to access the text
19:05:44 <kmc> shachaf: isn't what what title does?
19:06:05 <olsner> quintopia: galaxy note has a stylus you can hover with
19:06:42 <ion> <head><title title="hello">bye</title></head>
19:06:48 <quintopia> olsner: well fuck the fucking fuckers with their fancy fucking hovertablets. meanwhile, i'd like to be able to read title text on my phone.
19:09:25 <boily> Taneb: did you or will you invent hovertablets?
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19:12:28 <shachaf> kmc: i thought you meant title did a thing other than tooltip text
19:12:39 <shachaf> but i guess you meant that it's only meant to work on a few tags
19:12:45 <kmc> not really
19:12:57 <kmc> just that I only thought of it as a thing for <img>, until I learned otherwise
19:13:59 <shachaf> i thought of it as associated with acronym/abbr/etc.
19:14:35 <shachaf> or what's that tag that gives you a dotted underline and a question mark cursor
19:16:17 <shachaf> i like how document.all?true?false is false, but document.all is a thing
19:17:57 <olsner> it has to be falsey to avoid getting detected as IE or something?
19:21:40 <quintopia> just goes to show that evolution causes really dumb adaptations
19:22:15 <quintopia> shachaf: i didn't know there was a tag to do that. sounds like the kind of thing people would do with a css style.
19:23:05 <shachaf> i'm talking about the tag that often has that as a default style
19:23:11 <shachaf> <acronym> or <abbr> or something
19:24:36 <quintopia> does html5 have default styles for semantic tags?
19:24:44 <quintopia> or rather, do browsers that implement it?
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19:33:12 <FireFly> micro-b has a facility for hovering over things with a cursor
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20:46:27 <int-e> boily: the ninja twins game (flash version) has some strange glitches. now I have a ninja bouncing between a box and a bouncer (level 17) ... in the same level, the ninjas can walk through one of the sliding blocks. strange.
20:49:09 <boily> int-e: that's not good...
20:50:02 <int-e> so is there a version that works? :)
20:52:35 <boily> the Ouya version seems to correctfully work. I can't assert that level 17 is bugless as I'm not there yet.
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21:12:55 <boily> PDF question: where should I put the funpuns entry? in the “Things” chapter, or in shachaf's header?
21:14:03 <boily> you'd like your quotes to be supressed? if you have a github account and are a cocoonspirator, you can remove everything inconvenient.
21:14:14 <boily> also, you could ask me, and I'll obliterate everything.
21:14:33 <Bike> good phraseology here
21:16:02 <shachaf> Bike: tell me about cococoons
21:16:28 <HackEgo> A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk
21:17:02 <metasepia> The raccoon (Procyon lotor), sometimes spelled racoon, also known as the common raccoon, North American raccoon, northern raccoon and colloquially as coon, is a medium-sized mammal native to North America.
21:20:29 <metasepia> bike definition: '''chiefly Scottish''' a nest of wild bees, wasps, or hornets.
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21:20:44 <boily> Bike: well. at least you are chiefly Scottish and wild.
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21:23:06 <Bike> i'm ok with that.
21:23:20 <metasepia> firefly definition: any of various winged nocturnal beetles (especially family Lampyridae) that produce a bright soft intermittent light by oxidation of luciferin especially for courtship purposes.
21:23:56 <Bike> i like hymenopterans.
21:26:26 <metasepia> Boiling is the rapid vaporization of a liquid, which occurs when a liquid is heated to its boiling point, the temperature at which the vapor pressure of the liquid is equal to the pressure exerted on the liquid by the surrounding environmental pressure.
21:26:41 <FireFly> `run echo 'A racoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in fur' >wisdom/racoonspirator
21:27:40 <FireFly> Does this mean that boily is 'hot'?
21:28:32 <boily> I am a sexy shoeless god of war :D
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21:35:42 <shachaf> FireFly: p. sure it should be "raccoonspirator"
21:36:23 <FireFly> Wikipedia mentioned both spellings, and that one was more similar to cocoon
21:38:40 <ion> According to a Finnish online thesaurus, “to manipulate” is synonymous with “butterscotch” and “to evade”. http://www.synonyymit.fi/manipuloida http://translate.google.com/#auto/en/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.synonyymit.fi%2Fmanipuloida
21:52:44 <FreeFull> Butterscotch is very manipulative
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21:59:59 <Phantom_Hoover> according to wiktionary the latin for clitoris also means gridiron
22:00:33 <Phantom_Hoover> this is even funnier given that the latin for clitoris is so obscene that it appears like once in the entire body of surviving literature
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22:05:54 <FreeFull> And are they sure grid irons weren't meant? =P
22:06:36 <kmc> does it not show up in any of the graffiti from pompeii?
22:06:38 <kmc> guess not http://www.pompeiana.org/resources/ancient/graffiti%20from%20pompeii.htm
22:32:12 <nooodl> FreeFull: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_profanity#Land.C4.ABca:_the_clitoris
22:35:46 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, i think it does, but that's not really 'literature'
22:42:14 <FireFly> It's more like, ancient tweets
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22:45:37 <FreeFull> kmc: Graffiti used to be so much better in terms of text
22:45:58 <FreeFull> "Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men’s behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity!"
22:55:16 <FreeFull> It's funny how they used graffiti as a sort of craigslist too
22:56:00 <coppro> I doubt that the actual graffiti was considered anything as close to that in terms of poetic-ness
22:56:26 <coppro> imo latin's density means that we tend to translate it quite colourfully, lacking distinction
22:56:35 <FreeFull> "Chie, I hope your hemorrhoids rub together so much that they hurt worse than when they every have before!"
22:56:51 <FreeFull> Yeah, it's hard to translate it concisely
22:57:13 <FreeFull> "Apollinaris, the doctor of the emperor Titus, defecated well here "
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23:06:52 <Bike> yep, exaactly like my last craigslist ad
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23:17:37 <shachaf> oerjan: someone suggested that "relevant" could mean f(0) = 0
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23:18:33 <kmc> shachaf: ?
23:20:50 <shachaf> kmc: "relevant function", to go with "linear" and "affine"
23:28:57 <int-e> @tell boily the windows version has the same glitches as the flash version, but level 17 is solvable.
23:30:18 <kmc> shachaf: ok
23:30:37 <shachaf> is there another name for functions f such that f(0) = 0
23:32:39 <int-e> . o O ( zero-preserving )
23:33:12 <Bike> yeah, zero-preserving was my thought too
23:33:26 <kmc> "original"
23:36:18 <int-e> pfft. meaning, the graph contains the origin?!
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23:56:06 <kmc> int-e: yes