00:13:47 -!- kasia13 has joined.
00:14:13 -!- kasia13 has changed nick to haggy.
00:14:40 <Sgeo> oerjan: how did I end up in a channel that has oerjan in the name?
00:23:52 <Sgeo> It's definitely connected to you, or someone trying to make victims think it's connected to you
00:24:08 <Sgeo> It's #!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no
00:24:34 <Sgeo> And I have not the faintest idea why or how it exists or I landed there
00:25:08 <oerjan> did it happen when you joined some other channel?
00:26:06 <Sgeo> It... may have? I don't know, it happened when I opened my IRC client
00:26:11 <Sgeo> Or some time after
00:26:46 <Sgeo> Actually, seems like some time before, like I was logging, but didn't realize I was there before
00:27:15 <oerjan> Sgeo: can you check if you are banned in some channel you usually join?
00:27:37 <oerjan> also given the timing, i have one possible suspect.
00:27:43 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
00:28:07 <Sgeo> #acehack but that's been like that for a while
00:28:07 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*siruf@unaffiliated/motley$##fix_your_connection.
00:28:08 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott_.
00:28:13 -!- elliott_ has set channel mode: +b haggy!*@*.
00:28:16 -!- elliott_ has kicked haggy ban evasion.
00:28:21 -!- elliott_ has set channel mode: +b *!*perdito@*.
00:28:31 -!- elliott_ has set channel mode: +b $a:perdito.
00:29:15 <Sgeo> Hmm, might be others tht I'm not sure if I attempt to autojoin
00:29:23 <elliott_> oerjan: thank you for opping to make me notice that.
00:29:26 -!- elliott_ has set channel mode: -o elliott_.
00:29:52 <Sgeo> Don't see anything else banny in Freenode
00:29:57 <Sgeo> The server tab
00:33:27 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
00:34:11 <oerjan> Sgeo: are you on any channel on which sirus has ops?
00:34:25 <Sgeo> I don't know who sirus is
00:34:39 <oerjan> someone i banned yesterday
00:34:45 <oerjan> because they kept quitjoining
00:34:49 <Sgeo> Then again, I barely know who's in most of the channels
00:35:08 <Sgeo> siruf is in #elixir-lang
00:35:48 <oerjan> hm that only has a single ban
00:35:56 <oerjan> which is not relevant.
00:36:26 <Sgeo> siruf is who you unbanned just before
00:36:29 -!- w00tles has joined.
00:36:48 <elliott_> if you have server window logs they will probably contain the answer.
00:36:51 <oerjan> yes, i somehow mistyped it everywhere else
00:37:01 <Sgeo> If it helps, Ienpw_III was there too
00:37:40 <oerjan> Sgeo: well elliott_ is right, look in your logs to see what messages happened before you entered the channel
00:38:56 <Sgeo> Don't see oerjan in the server logs anywhere except when I did the whois
00:39:14 <oerjan> well you must have entered the channel at one point.
00:39:26 <Sgeo> I don't think Quassel lists that in the server window
00:39:44 <Sgeo> [19:57:08] * Channel #!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no created on 2014-03-10 22:21:18 UTC
00:39:52 <oerjan> and it's not messages with "oerjan" that are interesting, it's what other channels your client was _trying_ to join when it happened.
00:39:53 <Sgeo> I have logs from 3/10 in there
00:40:40 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
00:41:00 <oerjan> of course it's also possible you joined it through some hilarious mistyping :P
00:41:21 <Sgeo> Seems like somehow it's related to ##nomic
00:41:28 <Sgeo> Another ##nomic user in there, you're in there
00:41:29 <oerjan> well i guess siruf is in the clear, then, the channel happened before.
00:41:55 <oerjan> doesn't have much ban there either.
00:42:00 <oerjan> maybe it was an invite?
00:42:28 <Sgeo> Hmm... do I autojoin invites?
00:42:37 <Sgeo> Someone invite me somewhere?
00:43:14 <oerjan> i'm nowhere else, so don't ask me
00:43:27 <oerjan> well except ##nomic where i don't have ops
00:43:41 -!- Sgeoweb has joined.
00:43:57 -!- trn has joined.
00:44:51 <Sgeo> The invite ends up in the server tab, not forced. Can invites be forced?
00:45:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
00:45:44 <oerjan> but channel forwards are, of course
00:45:49 -!- Sgeoweb has quit (Client Quit).
00:46:01 <oerjan> whether through bans or otherwise.
00:46:21 <oerjan> well unless there's an option not to, could be
00:46:57 <Sgeo> I'm automatically forwarded to #nethack4 every day, but that's not atypical
00:49:12 -!- conehead has joined.
00:50:20 -!- iamcal____ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
00:50:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
00:50:30 -!- iamcal____ has joined.
00:50:31 <Sgeo> * Channel #!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no created on 2014-03-10 22:21:18 UTC
00:50:35 <Sgeo> Is the exact timestamp
00:50:54 <oerjan> that's not what i saw when i joined
00:51:26 <oerjan> maybe something went horribly wrong during a netsplit
00:52:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
00:52:48 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:52:51 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:52:57 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:53:08 <oerjan> nothing interesting happened in #esoteric at that time, fwiw. you joined nearly an hour later.
00:54:56 -!- sn0wboard has joined.
00:55:55 <oerjan> Sgeo: if you have #esoteric on autojoin, it seems unlikely that you would have joined that channel at the time it was created but not #esoteric?
00:56:27 <Sgeo> [19:57:08] --> Sgeo (~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no
00:56:27 <Sgeo> [19:57:08] *** Mode #!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no +ns by dickson.freenode.net
00:56:27 <Sgeo> [19:57:08] * Channel #!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no created on 2014-03-10 22:21:18 UTC
00:56:28 -!- tromp_ has joined.
00:56:43 <Sgeo> Ienpw_III may have been there before me
00:57:12 <oerjan> what timezone is that 19:57
00:58:43 <Sgeo> EDT (near daylight savings border though, mayve)
00:59:24 <HackEgo> date: invalid date `19:57 EDT'
00:59:49 <oerjan> stupid americans think people understand letter codes
00:59:49 <Sgeo> `date 19:57 EST
00:59:49 <HackEgo> date: invalid date `19:57 EST'
01:00:40 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit).
01:00:52 <oerjan> Sgeo: um was this on the 10th?
01:01:46 <HackEgo> date: invalid date `20:00 PDT'
01:02:04 <HackEgo> date: invalid date `8pm PDT'
01:02:53 <oerjan> sn0wboard: i vaguely suspect it's complaining that it's not containing, like, a _date_.
01:03:36 <sn0wboard> you need to know where it's 20:00 now?
01:03:51 <oerjan> Sgeo: well if that was on the 10th then it was nearly 40 minutes _after_ you joined.
01:04:27 <oerjan> sn0wboard: no, i am trying to find out where those times Sgeo are referring to are in the #esoteric logs, although i'm not sure we're even on the same date.
01:05:16 <oerjan> Sgeo: was that 19:57 on the 10th or today?
01:05:52 <oerjan> because i am, as should be obvious, trying to find out if anything interesting happened at the point in time when you _first_ entered the channel.
01:06:11 <oerjan> and getting slightly impatient in the process.
01:08:09 <oerjan> i should definitely never go into tech support, i'd be a serial killer in days.
01:08:42 <oerjan> 23:57:42:<Sgeo> I remember you talking about Smalltalk inspiring Feather
01:09:01 <oerjan> that's the only thing in the #esoteric logs at that minute
01:09:59 <oerjan> hmph i was there at the time but i don't keep ##nomic logs
01:10:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
01:10:17 <oerjan> oh well. the mystery remains.
01:12:08 <Sgeo> Nothing interesting there at least as far as I can see
01:14:43 <sn0wboard> seems you guys are bored.. though that impression could be deceiving as well
01:15:17 <oerjan> sn0wboard: well you didn't catch the beginning of the mystery
01:16:00 <oerjan> apparently Sgeo somehow found himself in a channel named #!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no and we have no idea why
01:16:12 <oerjan> i certainly didn't make it. i think.
01:18:10 <sn0wboard> see! when knowledge increase wonder deepens
01:18:40 <sn0wboard> welly well..didn't mean to disturb drwatson
01:19:34 <oerjan> don't have any more ideas really. i took a look at the raw #esoteric channel logs, nothing there either.
01:34:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
01:37:38 <elliott_> 00:13:47 -!- kasia13 [~perdito@46.114.2.144] has joined #esoteric
01:37:40 <elliott_> 00:54:56 -!- sn0wboard [~sn0wboard@46.115.69.54] has joined #esoteric
01:37:47 <elliott_> sn0wboard: why are you ban evading?
01:48:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
01:53:09 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott_.
01:54:04 -!- elliott_ has set channel mode: +b *!*sn0wboard@*.
01:54:23 -!- elliott_ has kicked sn0wboard you have carefully ensured you are never going to get unbanned, please go away forever.
01:55:50 <elliott_> is there any easy way to query all IP blocks owned by a certain ISP?
01:55:56 <elliott_> I'd like to ban his temporarily.
01:56:08 <elliott_> or at least a certain AS thingy
01:57:35 <Sgeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_system_(Internet) I assume
01:59:48 <elliott_> whatever, I'll just ban him the next time too.
01:59:50 -!- elliott_ has set channel mode: -o elliott_.
02:00:05 <elliott_> no idea what he's getting out of this.
02:01:10 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:01:45 -!- tromp_ has joined.
02:06:31 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
02:06:31 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
02:06:36 -!- vravn has quit (Quit: vravn goes).
02:17:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
02:27:55 -!- shikhout has joined.
02:27:58 -!- tertu has joined.
02:31:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
02:31:09 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin.
02:31:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:59:16 <Sgeo> kmc: what do you think about Idris (if I haven't asked already)?
03:10:09 -!- tertu has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
03:10:10 -!- tertu_ has joined.
03:13:08 -!- tromp_ has joined.
03:22:04 <kmc> sounds cool, haven't had time to learn it
03:22:21 <kmc> if I learn a new language for fun in the near future, it'd probably be Idris
03:23:48 -!- luserdroog has joined.
03:24:14 <luserdroog> Lukasiewicz Logic Interpreter in PS. https://gist.github.com/luser-dr00g/9519896
03:24:57 -!- nisstyre has joined.
03:25:39 <luserdroog> Lukasiewicz appears to be the "root" of all algebraic computation on computers.
03:27:45 <Bike> you know, many plants in fact have multiple roots
03:30:28 <luserdroog> Hm. you're right. Banyan trees, for one.
03:31:06 <luserdroog> the 1962 APL book describes multiply-rooted tree also.
03:33:45 <Bike> by the way, new sort algorithm! has applications to security or some shit http://arxiv.org/abs/1403.2777
03:39:38 <luserdroog> I'm reading nearby http://arxiv.org/pdf/1309.7584.pdf
03:46:09 -!- sebbu has joined.
03:46:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
03:46:45 -!- sebbu has joined.
03:51:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:51:50 -!- tromp_ has joined.
03:55:13 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
03:56:19 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
04:04:17 -!- luserdroog has joined.
04:05:58 <Sgeo> Trying to figure out if I need to be too concerned about salt intake
04:06:05 <Sgeo> Different groups disagree
04:06:39 <Sgeo> At least I'm pretty sure with, e.g. gluten, that there's no actual concern for people who don't specifically have gluten issues
04:06:42 <Bike> i haven't seen these groups and i have no serious reason to believe they're disagreeing. ount me in on the agreement side
04:07:48 -!- CADD_ has joined.
04:07:56 <chaiomanot> Sgeo, i imagine there are quite a few things to worry about before salt
04:08:06 <chaiomanot> including gluten, which is almost always bad
04:08:17 <Bike> or what if it's a salt of radium?
04:08:28 <Sgeo> Bike: http://healthland.time.com/2012/11/05/why-even-healthy-people-should-watch-their-salt-intake/ American Heart Association, US Department of Agriculture
04:08:35 <Bike> it could happen, people
04:09:53 <Bike> Sgeo: looks like both are recommending less salt.
04:19:22 <luserdroog> Salt figures prominently in Lovecraft's resurrection stories.
04:20:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:32:28 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving).
04:44:58 -!- nisstyre_ has joined.
04:45:23 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
05:19:31 -!- Sgeo has joined.
05:29:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:33:47 -!- Sgeo has joined.
05:41:55 -!- tertu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
06:01:00 -!- atslash has joined.
06:01:19 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving).
06:11:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:25:39 -!- w00tles has joined.
06:26:15 -!- w00tles has quit (Client Quit).
06:28:36 -!- lexande has joined.
06:44:41 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
06:46:22 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
06:50:06 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:51:58 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
07:20:57 -!- FreeFull has quit.
07:29:32 -!- chaiomanot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
07:48:47 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
07:52:15 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:53:15 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
08:11:13 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:17:35 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood).
08:17:54 -!- Sellyme has joined.
08:26:57 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:27:51 -!- shikhin has joined.
08:44:15 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
08:47:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:52:35 -!- Qwerty20140313 has joined.
08:55:20 -!- Qwerty20140313 has left.
09:06:31 -!- MoALTz has joined.
09:16:42 -!- password2 has joined.
09:22:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
09:43:12 <Jafet> So instead of journals telling us about cool new algorithms, we now have irc (peer review sold separately)
09:48:24 -!- Bike has joined.
09:56:58 -!- Froo has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*).
09:57:13 -!- Frooxius has joined.
10:00:36 <oklopol> the world would be a much better place if peer review was sold separately
10:03:18 <Phantom_Hoover> as in, you buy a journal and pay extra for it to be peer reviewed
10:06:09 <Bike> i hear the new thing is post-publication review, anyway
10:09:01 <Jafet> At the moment, peer reviewers pay for peer review.
10:10:21 -!- boily has joined.
10:11:52 <Jafet> Huh, I received an email which, according to the headers, was sent 12 hours ago.
10:17:16 <boily> perfectly normal. that just means you are from yesterday.
10:23:45 <boily> I think it's prime time to dust my mapole. haven't had a good occasion to use it lately...
10:24:13 * boily makes a few practice swings, then *THWACKS* Jafet happily ^^
10:27:03 <Jafet> When you mapole someone hard enough, they ooze mapole syrup.
10:36:19 <Jafet> Bike: “Using this construction results in a running time for Zig-zag Sort of 19600 n log n, in terms of compare-exchange operations.”
10:40:09 <Jafet> Expander graphs aer cool, they hide in big-O and doesn't afraid of anything
10:42:21 <boily> fungot: stop contaminating people. Jafet sounds like you.
10:42:21 <fungot> boily: holy water by boiling the hell out of spain. one of a breakthrough. somehow the killing of the gods, by terry pratchett)
10:42:39 <boily> oh, so that's how they make holy water!
10:43:31 <boily> `` echo 'Holy water is water made by boiling the hell out of Spain.' >wisdom/'holy water'
10:43:58 <HackEgo> cat: bin/\`: No such file or directory
10:45:17 <Jafet> That is a disingenuous slight on fungot. I don't even know any transcripts from European parliament sessions.
10:45:17 <fungot> Jafet: they say that a black sheep has 3 bags full of holes; with the monster was responsible for endless tragedies of all the gods get angry if you can be tamed with carrots? salmon gets thinner at both ends." ( macbeth, by patrick mcgoohan)
10:46:19 <boily> fungot: does calamari get squigglier at both ends?
10:46:19 <olsner> hmm, salmon does get thinner at both ends
10:46:19 <fungot> boily: they say that a wand in a bag. ( bulfinch's mythology, by the roadside for ninety-nine years and a rock mole: a japanese stabbing knife.
10:48:00 <olsner> fungot: cuttlefish then?
10:48:00 <fungot> olsner: they say that a hacker who ate too fast and choked to death: the oxford english dictionary is quite sure which. and the lower world to hades. poseidon is associated in many places, not knowing who he was, plays an important part in the fires of hell and many more names besides. ( the fellowship of the ring, by w.b. yeats)
10:48:31 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
10:48:44 -!- metasepia has joined.
10:48:50 <metasepia> CYUL 131030Z 34012G18KT 3SM -SN DRSN VV015 M14/M17 A2963 RMK SN8 SLP035
10:49:10 <fungot> Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset)
10:49:22 <Jafet> Now fungot can get down to business.
10:49:23 <fungot> Jafet: of the going rate schedule) was a better and i were them) 6-1 and looking to get on the stack of mail will be best to wait. rep. other rate changes capping the market.
10:50:08 <Jafet> Two parentheses now into the OUT tray. Marvellous efficiency.
10:52:06 <boily> two unbalanced parentheses, you mean. fungot doesn't believe in protection of the environment.
10:52:07 <fungot> boily: best of all, the capacity..... .a bunch of construction within the central and eastern gas regions will be for the physical for physical and power physical to a more complete on that).
10:53:05 <olsner> fungot: bzzt, even more wrong parentheses... get a grip
10:53:05 <fungot> olsner: let me know of any of the ect legal dept of commerce for lehman and enron
10:54:26 -!- w00tles has joined.
10:54:40 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:55:24 <boily> the stuff you learn about bananas → http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/07/23/antimatter-from-bananas
10:59:10 <olsner> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose
11:05:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: YELLOW CURVED CHICKEN).
11:05:11 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:15:14 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
11:18:05 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
11:22:35 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi).
11:23:14 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
11:31:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
11:33:20 <fungot> Selected style: oots (Order Of The Stick)
11:33:27 <fungot> FireFly: would i be carrying our monthly" says that's what my dad and i sneak by any monsters and a whole lot of us who would be surprised what people will believe when they've all sucked" was, in that case, i will begin tracking them now by " age old" she means, " after i die".
11:34:05 <FireFly> Hm, the oots wordset seems subpar for fungot responses
11:34:05 <fungot> FireFly: there, that ought to be good. and it was wrong, so no, that is my position, and then, i blacked out. when the big worm showed me, and they've all sucked" was, in my opinion.
11:37:43 <fizzie> Possibly the paramaters have been suboptimal.
12:02:57 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:03:18 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
12:04:33 -!- MoALTz__ has joined.
12:04:59 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:08:01 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:12:07 -!- yorick has joined.
12:22:20 -!- oerjan has joined.
12:29:31 -!- idris-ircslave has joined.
12:29:47 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:36:18 <oerjan> <Bike> or what if it's a salt of radium? <-- oh come on, who would be putin radioactive elements in food
12:38:54 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
12:45:04 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi).
12:46:59 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
12:51:48 -!- tromp_ has joined.
12:55:31 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:56:08 -!- tromp_ has joined.
13:00:32 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds).
13:02:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:08:21 -!- augur has joined.
13:08:30 <oerjan> did google just start using a terrible font for their search results
13:08:54 <ais523> if website font selection were client-side, we wouldn't have this problem!
13:09:16 <olsner> oerjan: yes, I think so
13:24:12 <oerjan> ok darths & droids, i didn't see _this_ coming.
13:25:22 <fizzie> "font-family: arial, sans-serif;"
13:25:34 <fizzie> Some pages seem to indicate they've merely changed font sizes.
13:25:41 <fizzie> And removed link underlining and such.
13:29:25 <oerjan> admittedly, that _is_ par for the course in d&d.
13:34:35 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
13:35:50 <oerjan> it's just that somehow the new google style makes it take longer for me to see what i want in the search results...
13:36:10 <fizzie> It's probably just that your old-man eyes aren't any good for the modern webs.
13:36:19 <oerjan> hopefully this will pass.
13:36:55 <oerjan> fizzie: well, that too.
13:36:55 <fizzie> /. "Physicist Proposes a New Type of Computing" sounds Wolframesque.
13:37:49 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood).
13:38:01 <oerjan> that reminds me of that tao navier-stokes thing, but he's a mathematician.
13:38:29 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v.
13:39:14 -!- FireFly has joined.
13:40:41 <oerjan> today's darths & droids also has a nice conduit table
13:42:08 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
13:47:07 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:49:59 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:59:19 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
14:09:09 -!- yorick has joined.
14:13:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
14:19:48 -!- trout has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
14:22:35 -!- variable has joined.
14:26:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:28:03 -!- shikhin has joined.
14:28:24 <fizzie> I like that "let's list all possible operators" error.
14:29:37 <oerjan> TIL stackoverflow doesn't allow you to simply correct a syntax error: edits must be at least six characters.
14:32:55 -!- iamcal____ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
14:33:45 <ais523> hmm, we have two bots on the same prefix?
14:34:02 <ais523> anyone know any good Idris/Haskell polyglots?
14:34:21 <ais523> oerjan: haha, that's probably an attempt to stop people farming edits for karma or something
14:34:28 <ais523> does it let you edit it twice as a workaround?
14:35:42 <coppro> I haven't looked at Idris in a while, thanks for reminding me
14:36:55 <oerjan> ais523: i don't know, but my edit needs to be approved anyhow (and with the snark i ended up adding to make it go through, might not even be >:) )
14:37:26 <ais523> I don't know Idris at all, but I vaguely remember it's functional
14:37:39 <fizzie> ais523: Incidentally, in case you haven't noticed, idris-ircslave replies are also full of color.
14:38:00 <ais523> nor could I, without opening up the raw view window or using a different client
14:38:07 <ais523> or, I guess, turning color back on
14:38:08 <fizzie> That's a red "2" and a blue "Integer" there.
14:39:03 <ais523> not very interesting though
14:39:47 <fizzie> Something that does two different but reasonable things would be nicer.
14:40:35 <ais523> hmm, Idris has very Haskell-like syntax, apparently
14:41:26 <ais523> so trying to cause the programs to be implemented differently will be hard
14:42:23 <ais523> err, evaluated differently
14:42:47 <ais523> Idris is strict and Haskell is lazy, but that's hard to observe in the absence of side effects
14:43:21 <fizzie> Yes, well, it sounds rather like the C and C++ different-result polyglottery, where the devil is also in the details.
14:45:32 <ais523> but I don't know any of the details of Idris, and very few of the details of Haskell
14:45:35 <Jafet> > "> " ++ show "Hello, world!"
14:45:51 <Jafet> > text $ "> " ++ show "Hello, world!"
14:46:08 <ais523> Jafet: heh, that'd be an amusing botloop if it worked
14:46:24 <ais523> although lambdabot added a leading space, it's well aware of such tricks
14:46:37 <ais523> > putStrLn "Hello, world!"
14:46:37 <idris-ircslave> MkIO (\w => prim_io_bind (mkForeignPrim (FFun "putStr" [FString] FUnit) "Hello, world!\n" w) (\x => prim__IO x)) : IO ()
14:46:54 <ais523> ooh, Idris has a non-opaque IO type
14:47:12 <ais523> a little disappointing that neither bot actually ran the IO action once it was produced, though
14:48:03 <fizzie> To aid our color-challenged viewers: that's a red "MkIO", a pink "w", a bright green "prim_io_bind", a red "FFun .. \n", a pink "w" again, a pink "x", a red "prim__IO", a pink "x", and a blue "IO ()"; with all the rest in default color.
14:48:11 <fizzie> It's like having a permanent `rainwords, almost.
14:49:05 <ais523> fizzie: do you see why I turned color off now? :-)
14:49:06 <elliott_> fizzie: it's actually a red "FFun ... \n\""
14:49:19 <elliott_> and it's, in my opinion, more purple than pink.
14:49:20 <ais523> although the original cause was a bot that was outputting in black, using mIRC colored backgrounds
14:49:29 <ais523> and thus produced output that was unreadable outside mIRC
14:49:50 <ais523> elliott_: you may be using a different client or terminal than fizzie
14:49:56 <ais523> as in, it may actually be purple for you and pink for him
14:50:24 <fizzie> elliott_: Yes, I made a mistake there; though looking closer, it seems to be separately a red "FFun .. FUnit" followed by a red "\"Hello, world!\\n\"".
14:50:45 <elliott_> your prize is hosting the wiki
14:51:01 <fizzie> I don't like this game show.
14:51:38 <Jafet> > instance Show IO where show _ = "> hi"
14:51:39 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `instance'
14:51:53 <ais523> well, you managed to produce a different error message in the two bots
14:52:48 <ais523> huh, Idris knows how to optimize addition into not being unary
14:53:00 <ais523> one of my colleagues at work was working on that for Agda
14:55:12 -!- evalj has joined.
14:55:26 <elliott_> it's probably just special-cased.
14:55:54 <Jafet> It doesn't matter with agda, because no one expects to run agda code.
14:56:33 <ais523> I guess explaining agda to programmers is like explaining game semantics to economists
14:56:45 <ais523> the latter is a fun explanation, really
14:57:14 <ais523> "it's sort-of like how games work in economics, but you know everyone's strategy in advance rather than trying to work it out, and you don't really care who wins, what you're interested in is whether the game will end at all"
14:59:18 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.::, Prelude.List.::, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.::, Prelude.Stream.::, Prelude.Vect.::
14:59:19 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show t0)
14:59:19 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `M857856901971536584611453.show_M8578569019715365846...
14:59:19 <lambdabot> The type variable `t0' is ambiguous
14:59:19 <lambdabot> Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s)
14:59:19 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
14:59:56 <Jafet> I always wonder if GHC actually used that many type variables internally.
15:00:58 <ais523> bleh, ** does something in the two languages, but I'm not sure we can construct something that's both an Idris predicate and a Haskell number
15:01:05 <ais523> *something completely different
15:01:59 <Jafet> elliott: Isabelle/HOL manages to use binary without too much special-casing (the binary rewrite rules for nat are tagged "[code]")
15:02:30 <Jafet> Of course, numbers are still represented as church numerals, because who cares about constant factors.
15:03:05 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood).
15:03:12 <ais523> is there anything lambdabot will interpret as numeric, that takes an argument?
15:03:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Excess Flood).
15:03:14 -!- ^v has joined.
15:03:37 <idris-ircslave> (input):1:3:Can't infer type for (|(|fromInteger 1 , fromInteger 1 , |) , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , |) (|(|fromInteger 2 , fromInteger 2 , |) , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , |)
15:03:37 <lambdabot> (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> GHC.Integer.Type.Integer ->...
15:03:37 <lambdabot> arising from the ambiguity check for `e_1123'
15:03:37 <lambdabot> from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a -> a1 -> t),
15:03:43 <Jafet> That used to work.
15:03:49 -!- `^_^v has joined.
15:04:26 <Jafet> @let instance Num a => Num (a -> a) where fromInteger = const
15:04:27 <lambdabot> bound by the instance declaration at .L.hs:170:10-32
15:04:27 <lambdabot> `a' is a rigid type variable bound by
15:04:43 <Jafet> @let instance Num a => Num (a -> a) where fromInteger = const . fromInteger
15:04:44 <lambdabot> No explicit method or default declaration for `+'
15:04:44 <lambdabot> In the instance declaration for `Num (a -> a)'
15:04:53 <idris-ircslave> (input):1:3:Can't infer type for (|(|fromInteger 1 , fromInteger 1 , |) , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , |) (|(|fromInteger 2 , fromInteger 2 , |) , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , 2 , |)
15:04:53 -!- nooodl has joined.
15:04:53 <lambdabot> (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> GHC.Integer.Type.Integer ->...
15:04:53 <lambdabot> arising from the ambiguity check for `e_1123'
15:04:53 <lambdabot> from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a -> a1 -> t),
15:05:51 <ais523> I like Idris's error messages, not because they're useful, but because they hint at insane internal implementation details
15:06:08 -!- variable has joined.
15:06:20 <Jafet> @let instance Num a => Num (a -> a) where { fromInteger = const . fromInteger; (+)=(+); (-)=(-); (*)=(*); abs=abs; signum=signum }
15:06:29 <idris-ircslave> (input):1:3:Can't infer type for (|(|fromInteger 0 , fromInteger 0 , |) , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , |) (|(|fromInteger 1 , fromInteger 1 , |) , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , |)
15:06:29 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> t))
15:06:30 <lambdabot> arising from the ambiguity check for `e_101'
15:06:30 <lambdabot> from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a -> t), GHC.Num.Num a)
15:06:30 <lambdabot> bound by the inferred type for `e_101':
15:06:30 <lambdabot> (GHC.Num.Num (a -> t), GHC.Num.Num a) => t
15:07:18 <Jafet> > (0 :: Integer -> Integer) 1
15:07:18 <idris-ircslave> (input):1:27:Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.::, Prelude.List.::, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.::, Prelude.Stream.::, Prelude.Vect.::
15:08:37 <Jafet> idris seems to have some sort of need to store each integer eight times.
15:08:44 <ais523> type annotations aren't going to work for this, Idris uses : and Haskell uses ::
15:09:14 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.Nil, Prelude.List.Nil, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.Nil, Prelude.Vect.Nil
15:09:15 <lambdabot> Expecting one more argument to `[]'
15:09:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
15:09:54 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (GHC.Real.Fractional (GHC.Types.Double -> t))
15:09:55 <lambdabot> arising from the ambiguity check for `e_10066'
15:09:55 <lambdabot> from the context (GHC.Real.Fractional (a -> t),
15:09:55 <lambdabot> bound by the inferred type for `e_10066':
15:09:56 <ais523> sadly, neither seems to accept [] as the name of the type of an empty list
15:10:36 <Jafet> Surely that's () (up to isomorphism)
15:11:01 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:11:53 <ais523> no, () is an empty tuple
15:11:59 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.::, Prelude.List.::, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.::, Prelude.Stream.::, Prelude.Vect.::
15:12:03 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[()]' with actual type `()'
15:12:11 <ais523> and ::/: care about lists
15:12:25 <ais523> although Idris has like five different sorts of lists and idris-ircslave seems unable to distinguish between them
15:12:28 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.::, Prelude.List.::, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.::, Prelude.Stream.::, Prelude.Vect.::
15:14:38 <Jafet> Advanced dependently typed language, cutting edge PLT, compiles to javascript, but appears unable to get syntax scoping right
15:14:48 <Jafet> I have reservations
15:18:23 <Melvar> Jafet: This is what you get when you overload and leave off a top-level type signature.
15:18:49 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:18:55 <ais523> yeah, it's basically a case of an ambiguous overload
15:19:04 <Melvar> [,] just desugars to :: and Nil.
15:19:11 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `:'
15:19:16 <idris-ircslave> Data.Vect.Quantifiers.:: : (P x) -> (All P xs) -> All P (x :: xs)
15:19:16 <idris-ircslave> Prelude.Stream.:: : a -> (Lazy (Stream a)) -> Stream a
15:19:16 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `:'
15:19:35 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `with'Not in scope: data constructor `Vect'
15:19:59 <Melvar> < ais523> I like Idris's error messages, not because they're useful, but because they hint at insane internal implementation details – On that note:
15:20:37 <Melvar> > S (| "foo", Z, True |)
15:20:38 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:4: parse error on input `|'
15:20:49 <Jafet> So [1,2,3] is handled by normal syntax rules?
15:21:10 <Melvar> No, [,] is built-in sugar.
15:21:13 <ais523> I haven't figured out what (| |) does yet, is it basically "out of these values, choose the one that has the correct type"?
15:21:20 <Melvar> ais523: Yes, just that.
15:21:29 <ais523> OK, then I have figured it out :-)
15:21:37 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:2: parse error on input `|'
15:21:46 <ais523> oh, "any one that has the correct type"
15:22:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
15:22:15 <lambdabot> No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0)
15:22:16 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `M299318430146378453612262.show_M2993184301463784536...
15:22:16 <lambdabot> The type variable `a0' is ambiguous
15:22:16 <lambdabot> Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s)
15:22:16 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
15:22:58 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:23:17 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
15:23:19 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `S'Not in scope: data constructor `Z'
15:23:51 <ais523> Melvar: I'm reading the tutorial: is there any easy way to desugar a proof back into a program?
15:24:39 -!- yorick has joined.
15:25:43 <ais523> hmm, that's disappointing
15:26:08 <Melvar> I mean, it generates a term internally, but I don’t know of any way to get it out.
15:26:09 <oerjan> `addquote <elliott_> you win this round. <elliott_> your prize is hosting the wiki <fizzie> I don't like this game show.
15:26:11 <HackEgo> 1176) <elliott_> you win this round. <elliott_> your prize is hosting the wiki <fizzie> I don't like this game show.
15:26:35 <ais523> yeah, it's obviously doing that internally, a way to dump the desugared form into the program seems pretty useful
15:29:06 <Jafet> What is a proof, just a term of a given type?
15:29:19 <Melvar> ais523: That’s not really just “desugared”, it’s “delaborated”.
15:29:43 <ais523> Idris has a "proof { trivial; }" syntax
15:29:48 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:16: parse error on input `;'
15:30:04 <ais523> that desugars into a term of a given type
15:30:27 <ais523> > proof { trivial; } : (Bool -> Bool)
15:30:28 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:16: parse error on input `;'
15:30:33 <ais523> err, not like that though
15:30:40 <Melvar> ais523: No type annotation syntax.
15:31:06 <ais523> I assumed : was type annotation, but it's type /declaration/?
15:31:07 <HackEgo> [U+21B5 DOWNWARDS ARROW WITH CORNER LEFTWARDS]
15:31:10 <ais523> that's probably workaroundable
15:31:22 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `:'
15:31:30 <Melvar> ↑ That’s what you usually use.
15:31:37 <ais523> ah, and the workaround's already been written
15:31:52 <ais523> > the (Bool->Bool) (proof {trivial;})
15:31:53 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:33: parse error on input `;'
15:32:10 <ais523> trivial only proves things equal to each other
15:32:19 <ais523> > the (1=1) (proof {trivial;})
15:32:20 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:7: parse error on input `='
15:32:34 <ais523> bleh, I should have realised that would happen
15:32:39 <ais523> and did, but not before I stopped pressing return
15:32:44 <ais523> > the (Z=Z) (proof {trivial;})
15:32:45 <idris-ircslave> Please consider reporting at https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris-dev/issues
15:32:45 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:7: parse error on input `='
15:32:51 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:32:55 <ais523> OK, /that/ should have worked :-)
15:33:08 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `the'Not in scope: data constructor `Fin'
15:33:09 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `Fini' (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted)
15:33:17 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
15:33:44 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:10: parse error on input `='
15:33:55 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:7: parse error on input `='
15:34:06 <elliott_> this idris-ircslave/lambdabot spam is just horrible
15:34:26 <ais523> yeah, but we can't exactly move the bots into another channel, unless they have autorejoin set
15:34:36 <ais523> we could possibly persuade idris-ircslave to change prefix?
15:34:54 <ais523> also, lamabdabot has a race condiiton
15:35:46 <ais523> but yeah, "the (Z=Z) (proof {trivial;})" should be a synonym for "the (Z=Z) (refl)"
15:35:53 <Melvar> Hmm, the guys in #idris are used to using > for it.
15:36:09 <ais523> because proof {trivial;} attempts to use refl if possible
15:36:25 <ais523> yeah, we need some sort of bot namespacing by channel
15:36:47 <elliott_> Melvar: per-channel configuration not easy?
15:37:07 <elliott_> is there any way to address it directly?
15:37:07 <Melvar> Currently, there is no configuration at all.
15:37:16 <elliott_> well, okay, per-channel prefix :)
15:37:54 <elliott_> I guess there is no way to do it without batching one bot, even with my lambdabot admin access
15:38:23 <Melvar> Let me just do a few things, and then add a prefix so we can at least work around it.
15:38:52 <ais523> so at least lambdabot has an alternative prefix
15:39:02 <ais523> I guess we could always use the thutubot workaround
15:39:43 <ais523> (in case you don't know what happened: thutubot's written in Thutu, a pretty primitive language; thutubot has an Underload evaluator written in Thutu, so I added a Haskell impl as a joke, which worked via PMing lambdabot)
15:41:56 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Integer'
15:42:03 <oerjan> hmph, indeed no annotation
15:43:11 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.Nil, Prelude.List.Nil, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.Nil, Prelude.Vect.Nil
15:43:32 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bot: not found
15:43:50 <oerjan> what are you trying to do.
15:44:07 <Jafet> Hmm, that must be the only "fungot" line that fungot does not reply to.
15:44:07 <fungot> Jafet: i get to go. surrender, and we all know things i would be as another sword arm this deadly but well-hidden booby trap, goblin friend, and she won't give that stern paladin look to my eviscerated remains of a dragon are indistinguishable from the real belkar and i are a bit too.
15:44:24 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot !
15:44:58 <oerjan> Melvar: i _greatly_ recommend ( hth
15:46:01 <ais523> yeah, it make sense to make it the opposite of jconn, really
15:46:12 <oerjan> ais523: there's another reason too
15:46:13 <ais523> the sad part is we didn't come up with an interesting Idris/Haskell polyglot before the fix
15:46:46 <oerjan> it will make me _finally_ be able to use ^ul instead of ^bf for fungot's ^prefixes command :P
15:46:47 <fungot> oerjan: my master as the new lord. everyone in this room is now eyeing you illusory belkar and i are a bit, and if the big boot goes my way! where are you, haley, that thing almost ate me too!
15:47:02 <ais523> oerjan: haha, I was wondering if it was something to do with balancing parens
15:47:11 <ais523> also we should have > listed in ^prefixes
15:47:12 <Melvar> ais523: It’s still going to accept > because #idris knows it that way.
15:47:27 <ais523> it shouldn't be changed for #idris
15:47:38 <ais523> except, maybe, if you feel the need to invite lambdabot in over there to evaluate some Haskell
15:48:04 <lambdabot> Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a
15:48:18 <elliott_> Melvar: can't it just ignore > in #esoteric?
15:50:26 <Melvar> elliott_: It could, but I’m quite uncomfortable with hardcoding that in.
15:50:50 <ais523> really IRC needs some sort of properly namespaced bot framework, where channels can configure bot prefixes themselves
15:50:53 <elliott_> hardcore it listening to > in #idris? :)
15:51:16 <ais523> or maybe some sort of complex ban, where you can prevent specific users seeing lines that match specific regexes
15:51:50 <ais523> that'd also let you do things like [no-glogbot-log] or whatever it was, opside
15:52:11 <elliott_> ais523: it's called "bot: command"
15:52:23 <ais523> that's just convention
15:52:27 <elliott_> no it's an extremely advanced namespace framework
15:52:38 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated).
15:52:39 <ais523> and not a particularly widely used convention either
15:52:53 <ais523> EgoBot: c printf "Hello, world!"
15:52:55 -!- idris-ircslave has joined.
15:53:05 <fungot> ais523: so, " shojo brain big," what's next?" heh, " fatty" last?
15:53:17 <elliott_> ais523: and your properly namespaced bot framework would be widely-used?
15:53:23 <ais523> that is not the program I asked you to run, young bot!
15:53:25 <elliott_> one more bot uses my scheme than uses yours in here
15:53:33 <ais523> elliott_: no, I meant as part of the ircd
15:53:42 <ais523> like, getting the ircd to translate bot prefixes on the fly
15:53:46 <ais523> according to rules set up per-channel
15:54:02 <ais523> then every bot uses it automatically
15:54:06 <oerjan> lambdabot: @run "You can do it, right?"
15:56:13 <Melvar> I believe that will do for now.
15:58:27 <Jafet> What about bot suffixes \o/
15:59:06 -!- tromp_ has joined.
16:01:39 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot !
16:02:14 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated).
16:02:29 <oerjan> ^def prefixes ul (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !)S
16:02:31 -!- idris-ircslave has joined.
16:02:33 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
16:03:20 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/, jconn/, idris-ircslave ( , jconn/' bin/prefixes
16:03:27 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
16:03:31 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:03:44 <EgoBot> sh echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot !'
16:03:55 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
16:04:05 <oerjan> !deluserinterp prefixes
16:04:20 <EgoBot> userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
16:04:26 <EgoBot> Interpreter prefixes deleted.
16:04:57 <oerjan> !addinterp prefixes sh echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !'
16:04:57 <fungot> oerjan: if the power, as duly noted. i've been up on the mountain
16:04:58 <EgoBot> Interpreter prefixes installed.
16:05:08 <EgoBot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
16:08:49 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:08:49 <Melvar> oerjan: Also did you see I added “idris-ircslave: ” as a prefix for it?
16:09:20 <Melvar> On that note, has anyone asked about the name yet?
16:10:57 <Melvar> The reasoning was that it uses “idris --ideslave”, but connects it to IRC rather than an IDE.
16:11:23 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi).
16:16:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
16:16:29 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
16:17:36 <quintopia> Melvar: it didn't need explanation. all bots are slaves.
16:19:29 <Melvar> (I’m actually fairly sure someone once complained about the “slave” in the name.)
16:20:32 <quintopia> it's actually more of a slave than most bots: you can't even feed it
16:24:31 <Melvar> I’m probably going to have to turn it into a proper bot with commands and matchers and stuff some time …
16:25:07 <Melvar> And ( just works like > ; it will only interpret, it does nothing else.
16:25:42 -!- spiette has joined.
16:35:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
16:35:25 -!- MoALTz has joined.
16:59:03 -!- nisstyre_ has joined.
17:01:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:15:56 <int-e> @botsnack idris-ircslave ... I wonder if I should implement that.
17:16:50 <ais523> how would lambdabot give snacks to other bots?
17:18:07 * int-e feeds idris-ircslave a sandwich.
17:18:13 <int-e> something like that ;)
17:19:36 <int-e> (you can get creative when it comes to food. it could be an OSI sandwich, for example.
17:20:19 * Melvar composes a good botsnack response for idris-ircslave. Not going to put it in just now, though.
17:20:30 <int-e> (Help! I"m stuck between OSI layers 2 and 3!)
17:23:58 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
17:41:24 <ski> fsbot uses `,' ?
17:55:17 -!- yorick_ has joined.
17:55:37 -!- yorick has quit (Excess Flood).
17:58:39 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick.
18:25:28 -!- FreeFull has joined.
18:27:59 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3).
18:31:28 -!- c031n6 has joined.
18:32:20 -!- tertu has joined.
18:33:19 <c031n6> i want to join a esoteric language community......can anyone help ?
18:34:23 <FireFly> I mean, this channel is some sort of esoterig language community
18:34:34 <HackEgo> c031n6: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:35:25 <fizzie> Programming language, though. Not just language in general.
18:35:38 <ais523> I think this /is/ the main community, but it spends a lot of time offtopic
18:35:43 <ais523> the other esolang communities I know of have all died
18:35:55 -!- password2 has joined.
18:36:11 <augur> c031n6: what do you mean "join"
18:36:31 <fizzie> ais523: There was an esolang mailing list message just the other day, in 2012.
18:36:51 <ais523> 2012 is "just the other day"?
18:37:01 <ais523> also I'm pretty sure someone posted on alt.lang.intercal some time in the last several years
18:37:02 <c031n6> anyone here to help me out developing a esoteric lang which would give me an edge in developing a much proper prog'g lang pls
18:37:25 <ais523> hmm, you want to practice on esolangs in order to move onto more serious compiling? that makes a lot of sense
18:37:27 <quintopia> this isn't an esolang development "help" channel i think
18:37:36 <ais523> just it hasn't been used for that in years
18:37:50 <ais523> it used to be used like that all the time, though
18:38:06 <ais523> c031n6: I'd suggest trying to create something with a proper type system of some sot
18:38:22 <ais523> most serious compiled languages need to be able to handle that
18:38:31 <ais523> and even interpreted languages tend to be horribly slow without it
18:38:43 <augur> c031n6: i dont think esolangs are a good stepping stone to a proper language
18:39:12 <ais523> augur: I'm not certain
18:39:22 <ais523> much of the initial work I did on Anarchy ended up relevant to my PhD
18:39:35 <ais523> and the compiler development practice definitely helped
18:39:57 <ais523> like, knowing how to write a parser (even if it's just via yacc) is really helpful, and the general ideas of AST traversal
18:40:07 <ais523> now, you can write interps/compilers for many esolangs without worrying about that stuff
18:40:24 <c031n6> thnx and a more easier way to master writing compilers than following books ?
18:40:40 <ais523> but, you can work on something that needs it
18:40:58 <ais523> c031n6: I'd say working on optimizers (within an existing compiler) can be good practice for writing compilers
18:41:12 <ais523> it forces you to think in the right sort of way, working out how much information you can track about the program
18:41:21 <ais523> and if there's an existing compiler, much of the work has been done for oyu
18:42:01 <ais523> so long as it's more complex than a textual substitution BF compiler
18:42:08 <quintopia> which is a sort of compiler where you decide the source language on the fly
18:42:12 <ais523> hmm, what are good esolangs to start with when writing compilers
18:42:27 <ais523> Underload, perhaps; that's moderately difficult to compile
18:42:36 <ais523> quintopia: I mean compiling from
18:42:47 <ais523> it's theoretically impossible to compile Perl via any method than bundling an interp
18:42:54 <ais523> also it's a very large language
18:43:00 <ais523> *any method other than
18:43:08 <quintopia> very good practice at compiler building there
18:43:24 <ais523> quintopia: practice normally implies being easier than the real thing
18:43:47 <quintopia> but just by being here we've proved we're not normal
18:44:48 -!- c031n6 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
18:44:53 <ais523> gah, I hate this, an opportunity for the channel to be ontopic, and you're basically just acting like you'd prefer it to be offtopic
18:45:33 <ais523> sometimes I really wonder why I stay here
18:49:19 <quintopia> sorry i'm not srs enough. but i do like the channel the way it usually is.
18:49:40 <ais523> it's basically just a social channel
18:50:00 <ais523> like, a few years back
18:50:05 <ais523> you'd have conversations about Befunge that lasted /weeks/
18:54:18 <int-e> I just realized that the bfjoust fad seems to be over.
18:55:08 -!- erdic has joined.
18:55:55 <ais523> int-e: it's not fully over, but it's definitely slowed
18:56:06 <ais523> I got frustrated by preparation beating every program and still not getting #1 on the hill
18:56:26 <ais523> so gave it a break for a while
18:56:34 <ais523> if I can get it, or another program, to #1, then interest will spark up again
18:56:36 <ais523> but I've been really busy
18:59:03 <quintopia> you stay here for those few lucid moments when things get interesting. you never know when they'll come
19:00:49 <kmc> that sounds like life
19:01:38 <int-e> waiting for lucid moments? mmm
19:05:14 <quintopia> i get the feeling this place would be as boring as ##cs is most of the time were there a requirement to stay on topic
19:07:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:13:26 <fizzie> It certainly would give me less data to draw plots with.
19:16:21 <int-e> we'd also have to ban fungot.
19:16:21 <fungot> int-e: so, the lives of any hobgoblins to their death on the mountain
19:17:42 <ais523> fungot is ontopic, though
19:17:42 <fungot> ais523: the, uh, i just need to keep the theme going. a classic i like, and you may end.
19:17:45 <ais523> being written in an esolang
19:18:31 <quintopia> fungot rarely says things that are on-topic
19:18:31 <fungot> quintopia: " i want, he could be the king here and there, that ought to be good.
19:19:38 -!- evalj has joined.
19:21:22 <ais523> anyone have a J/Idris polyglot handy? :-)
19:24:14 <ais523> now, that's an interesting idea
19:24:19 <ais523> automatic polyglot generator
19:24:35 <ais523> although it'd probably exploit comment syntax differences, that's the normal way to make really large polyglots
19:25:07 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:25:54 <fizzie> Somehow that sounds really familiar, but I can't find anything related. (Possibly I'm just thinking of some particular polyglot that had used some semi-automatic generation.)
19:26:02 <ais523> automatic ouroboros generators are probably easier
19:26:19 <quintopia> what's the largest comment-less polyglot extant?
19:26:39 <ais523> hmm, interesting question
19:26:47 <ais523> do you consider things like putting most of the program into a string literal as commenting?
19:27:16 <quintopia> seeing as how 90% of languages use the same syntax for strings...
19:27:40 <ais523> q< anything inside these angle brackets won't be seen by Perl... >
19:28:38 <fizzie> Awib is a polyglot, and a large(ish, relatively speaking) program, but very comment-based.
19:28:49 <ais523> oh, I didn't realise awib was a polyglot
19:28:51 <ais523> what's the other language?
19:29:07 <ais523> maybe I should just read it
19:29:30 <fizzie> It's a brainfuck-C-bash-Tcl polyglot.
19:30:10 <ais523> hmm, awib's definition of esolangs is quite interesting
19:30:12 <fizzie> But all four parts are quite separate blocks, and use comment tricks for isolation.
19:30:39 <ais523> "An esoteric programming language is a language not only ill-suited for serious software development, but actually designed with this characteristic in mind."
19:31:06 <ais523> I would ask why, but I guess there isn't really a reason
19:31:22 <ais523> nor does there really have to be
19:31:26 <ais523> (wrt the polyglotting, I mean)
19:32:42 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:34:34 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
19:50:44 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:51:16 -!- erdic has joined.
20:01:05 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
20:02:40 -!- conehead has joined.
20:11:37 -!- x^2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:14:41 -!- x^2 has joined.
20:28:15 -!- shikhout has joined.
20:28:54 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone).
20:29:23 -!- variable has changed nick to trout.
20:31:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:31:09 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin.
20:43:57 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:48:58 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated).
20:52:36 -!- idris-ircslave has joined.
20:53:42 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:53:49 -!- tertu has joined.
21:06:28 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:27:19 <int-e> ais523: So that makes Haskell an esoteric programming language in spirit? ("Avoid success at all cost", of course ultimately it's a failure.)
21:28:01 <int-e> I'm not sure what "serious" software development is.
21:28:08 <ais523> int-e: I thought the parens went around "success at all cost"
21:28:43 <int-e> ais523: you could be right, I have not considered that possibility.
21:29:08 <ais523> I don't think Haskell can really be an esolang just because it was a (successful in that respect!) attempt to unify all the independent attempts to create lazy pure functional languages that were springing up at the time
21:29:22 <ais523> and, well, lazy functional languages were pretty eso once (just look at Unlambda)
21:29:38 <ais523> but with enough persistence trying to make them work, they eventually did
21:30:06 <int-e> to make that perfectly clear, I do not consider Haskell to be an esoteric programming language. I'm just wondering whether the proposed definition stretches far enough to include it.
21:31:14 <ais523> well, my working definition of an esoteric language is "a language for which it there would be no point in trying to make an ecosystem of libraries"
21:31:19 <ais523> it works quite well, apart from Funge-98
21:32:17 <fizzie> It's not that far of for Funge-98, since while there is an ecosystem of libraries, the point is debatable. (Though it certainly makes up a large part of the Funge-98 Experience, so maybe that counts.)
21:47:16 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:48:36 -!- Sorella_ has joined.
21:49:09 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:51:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:09:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:26:39 -!- boily has joined.
22:34:22 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:37:04 <oerjan> <ais523> and, well, lazy functional languages were pretty eso once (just look at Unlambda) <-- unlambda isn't really lazy. even the d operator doesn't actually cache any result.
22:37:18 <ais523> oh right, I was confused
22:37:24 <ais523> but you don't need caching to be lazy
22:37:40 <ais523> in fact, one of the largest reasons for laziness – that you can't store values of the type in question – prevents caching
22:38:21 <oerjan> if you're not caching the result then you are reevaluating it every time, which isn't a very lazy thing to do (and essentially call-by-name, although unlambda has no names)
22:39:07 <oerjan> that is, functionally laziness is an optimization of call-by-name
22:39:35 <ais523> oh, I treat call-by-name as lazy
22:39:47 <ais523> my definition of "lazy" is "function arguments might not be evaluated even if the function's result is used"
22:39:52 <boily> hellørjan. ais523ello.
22:41:02 <oerjan> ais523: the more general term is non-strict
22:41:28 <oerjan> that covers all the implementations with the same pure semantic result as laziness and call-by-name
22:41:53 <oerjan> of course side effects mess things up
22:41:57 <ais523> is there a difference between "lazy" and "call-by-need" with your definition?
22:42:20 <ais523> because if not, I think my definition's more useful
22:43:09 <elliott_> call-by-name means call-by-name
22:43:35 <oerjan> (A rand-om observation)
22:44:46 * boily wonders what an om is, and why it is randing...
22:45:26 <ais523> elliott_: is that you agreeing with oerjan?
22:45:44 <ais523> I don't really like it because call-by-need is so semantically ugly
22:46:07 <ais523> even parallel call-by-need is better
22:46:08 <elliott_> that's why laziness is an implementation detail
22:46:27 <ais523> well, there are definitely impure call-by-name languages
22:50:51 <oerjan> boily: an om is an objectivist mastermind hth
22:53:19 <boily> oerjan: td partially h. I still haven't grasped all the nuances of objectivism.
22:54:15 -!- vravn has joined.
22:54:20 <HackEgo> vravn: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:54:37 <oerjan> boily: i am quite suspecting that nobody has.
22:55:14 <vravn> Thanks for the welcome
22:55:38 <boily> oerjan: oh well. my main concern of the moment is a sudden panic caused by a lack of haskell in my recent life.
22:55:44 -!- ais523 has quit.
22:58:48 <boily> I keep trying to functionalise the Java I produce during the day.
22:59:54 <oerjan> @run fix$(0:).(<**>[id,xor 1]).tail
23:00:07 <oerjan> hm that didn't work well.
23:00:34 -!- metasepia has joined.
23:00:38 <boily> ~eval fix $ (0:) . (<**> [id, xor 1]) . tail
23:00:52 <oerjan> @run fix$(0:).(<**>[id,xor 1]).tail
23:00:56 <boily> ~eval fix $ (0:) . (<**> [id, xor 1]) . tail
23:01:06 <oerjan> :t fix$(0:).(<**>[id,xor 1]).tail
23:01:19 <boily> ah. of course an error 127. I'm not running the cuttle from the same machine as before...
23:01:32 <oerjan> @run fix$(0:).tail.(<**>[id,xor 1])
23:01:33 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1...
23:02:50 <oerjan> boily: are you telling me you _left_ a job where you could do haskell? surely you have no one but yourself to blame.
23:04:06 <oerjan> oh dear did i break him
23:04:38 <boily> I could do Haskell in my free time. now I can't. I drown my sorrows in games of Magic during lunchtime.
23:04:44 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:05:14 <boily> (also, having two friends move from Québec City over to Montréal)
23:05:31 <oerjan> wait, is this due to lack of free time, or draconian work policies?
23:05:57 <boily> complete lack of free time. besides, the new job is fun, challenging and interesting.
23:06:15 <oerjan> YOU ARE MAKING NO SENSE HTH
23:07:21 -!- vravn has quit (Excess Flood).
23:09:14 -!- vravn has joined.
23:10:20 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg).
23:11:57 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:11:57 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:12:41 -!- boily has joined.
23:13:06 <boily> as I was saying before I realized I was horrendously lagging...
23:13:16 <boily> <oerjan> YOU ARE MAKING NO SENSE HTH ← I KNOW TWNH
23:13:56 <oerjan> vravn: YOU ARE REVEALED
23:14:26 -!- metasepia has joined.
23:14:42 -!- Froox has joined.
23:15:11 <oerjan> clearly someone is hiding something here
23:15:25 <boily> ienia ienia cthulhu fhtagn?
23:15:38 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:17:16 -!- jix has joined.
23:18:25 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:18:34 <oerjan> ok i admit i'm brewing on something. or trying to, anyway.
23:19:16 -!- CADD_ has changed nick to CADD.
23:19:42 <Taneb> Anyone here built a physical approximation to a Turing machine
23:19:52 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest95255.
23:19:55 <Taneb> And willing to share advice for someone wanting to do it?>
23:20:24 -!- x^2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:21:26 -!- x^2 has joined.
23:23:03 -!- x^2 has quit (Client Quit).
23:25:04 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi).
23:30:03 -!- Guest95255 has changed nick to CADD_.
23:32:19 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood).
23:33:23 -!- b_jonas has joined.
23:34:24 -!- Sellyme has joined.
23:36:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:41:09 -!- jix_ has joined.
23:43:18 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood).
23:44:54 -!- Sellyme has joined.
23:45:09 <ion> http://i.imgur.com/ruxIrOf.jpg
23:45:37 -!- jix has quit (Write error: Broken pipe).
23:46:52 <Taneb> ion, have you ever made an approximate Turing machine?
23:47:13 -!- jix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:48:05 <oerjan> fungot, have you ever made an approximate Turing machine?
23:48:05 <fungot> oerjan: a little too much to heart, really... i almost just got killed here, as instructed the orcs and told me what needed. is that true, vaarsuvius, you don't understand, i just need to keep that a secret!
23:48:19 -!- jix has joined.
23:48:59 <ion> taneb: No. Also what fungot said.
23:48:59 <fungot> ion: wow, that is such a stupid magic item that can allow any bandit that defeated
23:50:14 <Taneb> Some of my friends at uni and I are going to try
23:52:44 <Taneb> Anyway I'm going to sleep now
23:58:29 -!- vravn has quit (Excess Flood).