←2014-03-27 2014-03-28 2014-03-29→ ↑2014 ↑all
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02:41:07 <quintopia> Sgeo: brainfuck^ is on the wiki.
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04:36:00 <oerjan> <quintopia> fizzie: who is manyhills <-- i would be surprised if fizzie knows, as fizzie is not an iwc forum regular.
04:36:14 <oerjan> or maybe he is, but he hasn't told me.
04:36:41 * oerjan technically may or may not be; he reads, but has never registered.
04:40:38 <quintopia> oerjan: well he is mentioned on that one HSV mixup garfield to which taneb and manyhills contributed, so i figured they were in touch somehow
04:49:35 <oerjan> link?
04:49:44 <oerjan> anyway Taneb knows about both of them.
04:50:04 <quintopia> oh okay
04:51:48 <oerjan> also fizzie has _once_ posted to the forum iirc, after he analyzed the random messages on http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/about.php
04:53:08 <oerjan> oh http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=519
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04:56:47 <oerjan> anyway there is some overlap between iwc forum and #esoteric. i got there from here and Taneb got here from there, essentially.
05:00:48 <prooftechnique> IWC?
05:01:05 <oerjan> irregular webcomic
05:01:13 <prooftechnique> Ah, nice
05:01:47 <prooftechnique> I guess you can add me as a "got there from here" w.r.t. the forum
05:02:16 <oerjan> the forum is also for darths & droids and mezzacotta
05:02:29 <oerjan> also b_jonas iirc although i'm not sure which direction he went
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05:02:57 <prooftechnique> mezzacotta is one of my favorite things
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05:03:36 <oerjan> iwc was possibly the first webcomic i started following, and i learned about it here
05:05:04 <oerjan> then all the rest of the dmm empire started springing up. i think infinity on 30 credits may have already have died by then.
05:06:05 <oerjan> hm no, not quite. although not very soon after.
05:06:58 <oerjan> hm i suppose i had started reading iwc before io30c died, but not the forum.
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05:36:02 <oerjan> wow one of my newpaper comic sites actually reversed their recent horrible redesign.
05:36:07 <oerjan> *newspaper
05:36:25 <oklopol> postcard is pretty good
05:37:04 <oerjan> it lets you use your imagination for sure
05:37:53 <oklopol> no i torrented the original pics
05:38:01 <oerjan> OKAY
05:38:05 <oklopol> OKAY
05:38:12 <oklopol> so i didn't get postdoc funding :(
05:38:19 <oerjan> oops
05:38:54 <oerjan> my collaborators had the same problem iirc
05:39:00 <oklopol> had sort of counted on that, would have made my life a lot easier
05:39:45 <oerjan> which means that they've been productively working in industry for years since, hth
05:40:20 <oklopol> THAT'S NOT FUNNY
05:40:52 <oerjan> (one of them started this http://www.ohloh.net/p/opm)
05:41:14 <oerjan> oklopol: it's tragicomic hth
05:43:02 <oklopol> i'm still pretty confident i'll get _some_ funding, but it's less clear whether i'm going to chile (which was my plan)
05:43:05 <oerjan> (i.e. just like the universe in general)
05:43:43 <oerjan> oh that's a shame
05:44:39 <oerjan> i was supposed to have gone to ottawa during my postdoc but it coincided with my personal crashlanding so i just stumbled through in trondheim instead.
05:45:18 <oerjan> (admittedly 3 papers may be considered a little better than stumbling through.)
05:47:49 <oklopol> also the plan is to finish my phd thesis by monday
05:48:01 <oerjan> my mind still boggles a little that he managed to get that industry collaboration project to use GPL 3.0
05:48:32 <oklopol> (although i have lost roughly 50% of my motivation)
05:48:42 <oerjan> ah.
05:48:47 <oklopol> (so maybe i just won't submit it and become a hermit instead)
05:49:21 <oerjan> just move in with perelman and his mother
05:49:31 <oklopol> i still have no idea how you can make money with free things
05:50:07 <oerjan> oklopol: well the idea here is they all cooperate on software they need to earn money other ways
05:50:33 <oklopol> right
05:50:36 <oerjan> also, support services.
05:52:10 <oerjan> basically, industry wants not just the software but a guarantee that someone will keep it working; they can pay a lot for the latter even if the former is free.
05:52:41 <oerjan> afaiu anyway.
05:52:57 <oklopol> that makes sense
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06:08:57 <fizzie> For the record, I know nothing about "manyhills" except that the name sounds vaguely familiar.
06:09:05 <^v> in befunge, what order do i push numbers when doing math
06:09:14 <Bike> left
06:10:04 <shachaf> why is Bike @
06:10:19 <Bike> god is here.
06:10:21 -!- Bike has set channel mode: +v shachaf.
06:10:49 <Zom-B> speaking of which, on every other irc network i come, there is an unwritten rule that bots are %
06:10:55 <Zom-B> so that they can be recognized
06:11:04 <^v> Bike, what do you mean
06:11:05 <shachaf> why am i +v :'(
06:11:06 <Bike> does freenode even have halfops?
06:11:11 -!- Bike has set channel mode: -v shachaf.
06:11:11 <fizzie> I don't think it does.
06:11:13 <^v> which order do i push a and b
06:11:14 <shachaf> also, we're all bots in here
06:11:43 <Zom-B> you are so bot! (dutch for: blunt) :]
06:11:49 <Bike> bots used to be conventionally voiced on some espernet channels i use, but a server migration made the ops decide that was unnecessary
06:11:58 <^v> it says push a and b
06:12:03 <^v> but doesnt tell the order
06:12:12 <Bike> you could try it and find out.
06:12:12 <^v> is a stack[2] and b stack[1]?
06:12:53 <^v> also, why are the get and put instructions have x and y backwards
06:13:31 <Bike> anyway the ops are, let's see, probably applybot, clog, EgoBot, fungot, glogbot, idris-ircslave, jconn, lambdabot, monotone, myndzi sometimes, and i think that's it
06:13:32 <fungot> Bike: runtime error: invalid literal for int(): esoteric and up the top left two thirds as though it ought to be an extension language in xemacs, is there
06:13:35 <Bike> bots, not ops
06:13:42 <Bike> how esoteric we talkin', fungot?
06:13:42 <fungot> Bike: i think i should train it with data. it builds up
06:13:47 <Bike> i concur
06:13:57 <oerjan> Bike: monotone is a bot?
06:14:01 <oerjan> and who is applybot
06:14:13 <fizzie> ^ignore
06:14:13 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|cuttlefish|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-ircslave|passwordBOT)!
06:14:16 <Bike> i think applybot is one of those fancy theory provey things
06:14:21 <Bike> applybot: 2+2
06:14:21 <applybot> *** Unrecognized command
06:14:26 <Bike> applybot: help
06:14:26 <applybot> Meta-commands: colour context help info load* restart shutdown* state timeout* undo unicode unload* \ Isabelle commands: apply by declare defer definition done find_theorems fun function lemma oops prefer primrec quickcheck term termination thm try0 typ unfolding using value
06:15:25 <oerjan> fizzie: cuttlefish got renamed to metasepia
06:15:34 <fizzie> Oh, that's true.
06:15:47 <fizzie> I keep messing that up since I always just look it up from my fungot query or something.
06:15:47 <fungot> fizzie: so why should an engineer care whether a feature is used, though. calling with would be horribly ironic...
06:15:47 <Bike> i don't remember all of monotone's commands
06:15:51 <Bike> monotone: @anidb goro goro iki
06:15:51 <fizzie> (It's not persisted to file.)
06:16:14 <Bike> help
06:16:38 <Bike> fungot: i require assistance
06:16:39 <fungot> Bike: could you please specify what exactly you mean " user decidable"? :p
06:16:50 <oerjan> monotone: help
06:17:04 * oerjan suspects Bike is joking
06:17:31 <Bike> monotone: @help
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06:17:40 <Bike> hm
06:18:30 * oerjan is disturbed that Bike actually thinks monotone is a bot
06:19:19 <oerjan> Zom-B: well there you go, we can't give the bots flags when we cannot agree who they are.
06:19:50 <ion> I respond to licking.
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06:20:12 <Zom-B> well someone must've put them here so they outghtta do it
06:20:15 * oerjan licks ion, thinks he tastes salty
06:20:27 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa, whoa, whoa
06:20:29 <Zom-B> unless we have some ghosts in the machine
06:20:35 <Bike> alas, no voight-caauamp on the interwebs
06:20:37 <shachaf> anyone can get the international flag of bots
06:24:20 <Bike> maybe we could test eir vagus nerve response
06:24:25 <shachaf> fun fact: "bots" is the hebrew word for "mud"
06:24:44 <shachaf> fun fact: there is nothing fun about the previous fact
06:24:59 <ion> fun fact: there is nothing fun about this fact
06:25:14 <oerjan> Zom-B: well as long as you don't start your messages with silly characters like @ (and what twat would do that) or mention their name, the only bot that regularly responds is myndzi and he's not actually one
06:25:28 <oerjan> so it's not like the bots are a problem
06:25:33 <Zom-B> i just finished my mandelbrot in Floater, or so i thought
06:25:33 <Zom-B> iot turns into a weird shape: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpt5r2a79lesnju/floater-mandelheart.png
06:26:33 <shachaf> mud is also fun
06:27:32 <oerjan> shachaf: i hear "pippi" is hebrew for kiss or something, which is all sorts of fun for translators from swedish
06:27:37 <ion> mud bots are fun squared.
06:28:03 <Zom-B> :]
06:28:09 <shachaf> oerjan: it is similar to english "pee"
06:28:14 <oerjan> shachaf: aha
06:28:56 <oerjan> otoh sv:kissa = en:pee so it all evens out
06:28:57 <ion> Does English pee taste like tea?
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06:29:35 <oerjan> ion: only in medical conditions
06:29:58 <password2> i heard you guys are talking bout bots
06:30:09 * oerjan now imagines a culture obsessed with pee time
06:30:21 <ion> Every time i drink Earl Grey flavored tea i wonder how they know what he tasted like.
06:30:22 <shachaf> pippi långstrump's name is translated as "gilgi" or "bilbi" usually
06:31:01 <ion> Does she have a ring of power?
06:31:57 <oerjan> now you're giving me `addquote withdrawal again
06:34:41 <shachaf> ion: who doesn't
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06:46:46 <quintopia> wow that floater editor reminds me so much of my spiral IDE :/
06:48:19 <^v> \o/ befunge in Lua https://gist.github.com/infinikiller64/9826754
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06:57:07 <kmc> ion: http://i.imgur.com/sqhxdeS.png
07:08:37 <quintopia> oh that's right. picard preferred earl gray
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07:15:48 <ion> :-)
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08:45:48 <olsner> oerjan: if you tell boily about the quote he can add it to the pdf
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08:49:03 <oerjan> that's not how it works
08:49:06 <oerjan> yet, anyway
09:06:45 <oklopol> how does it work?
09:08:39 <oerjan> you put it in the wisdom/ directory of HackEgo hth
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11:25:08 <FireFly> !help
11:25:09 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
11:25:44 <FireFly> It's not possible to hack a quotedb into egobot somehow?
11:25:57 <FireFly> by abusing userinterps or something
11:26:21 <FireFly> or maybe it doesn't have a persistent filesystem
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11:35:34 <int-e> `echo No output?
11:35:35 <HackEgo> No output.
11:35:52 <int-e> `xyzzy
11:35:52 <HackEgo> No output.
11:36:21 * int-e idly wonders how the VM infrastructure for HackEgo works.
11:52:12 <Taneb> Hello
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14:06:19 <Jafet> GLPK manual: “Return 0 The MIP problem instance has been successfully solved. (This code does not necessarily mean that the solver has found optimal solution. It only means that the solution process was successful.)”
14:17:46 <fizzie> Have a silly hierarchical clustering thing too: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140328-clust2.jpg
14:20:16 <Jafet> I'm tempted to download the cplex software trial at this point
14:20:42 <Jafet> http://plato.asu.edu/ftp/milpc.html “GLPK solved: 1”
14:22:43 <fizzie> One more than none!
14:23:52 <Jafet> I suspect that it might have fared better if it supported multiple threads.
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17:12:40 <oerjan> <FireFly> or maybe it doesn't have a persistent filesystem <-- i don't think so.
17:13:16 <oerjan> that was, like, the main reason for creating HackEgo after all.
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17:16:22 <Phantom_Hoover> http://asherv.com/threes/threemails/ OK well that's kind of petty
17:18:15 <FireFly> I see
17:19:06 <kmc> wow
17:19:20 <kmc> "We know Threes is a better game, we spent over a year on it. "
17:20:38 <kmc> int-e: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/wiki/Home
17:22:18 <monotone> oerjan: I am a bot. A very quiet one.
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17:25:03 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, i don't think these people have heard of minimalism
17:29:23 <oerjan> monotone: okay
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17:47:59 <Phantom_Hoover> MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN (this just keeps getting better): http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21g6sx/i_am_a_tax_attorney_here_is_what_the_irs_notice/cgctzpm
17:55:13 <kmc> http://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart
17:57:07 <oerjan> what is this fedora thing
17:58:57 <kmc> oerjan: http://achewood.com/index.php?date=11012004
18:01:11 <oerjan> kmc: um i meant in that r/bitcoin thread
18:03:02 <Phantom_Hoover> someone wrote a bot that replies with http://i.imgur.com/Gt2WkEk.gif whenever someone says 'fedora', it seems
18:05:32 <kmc> oerjan: they're both referring to the same loosely-defined stereotype
18:08:01 <oerjan> oh ok. i couldn't get through the achewood comic enough to detect what the stereotype was.
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18:12:07 <oerjan> since i already _have_ seborrheic dermatitis, does that mean i can use a fedora anyhow?
18:12:32 <kmc> heh
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18:14:36 <kmc> the stereotype is like, white men in their 20s with a STEM education and a computery job, who are sure they're geniuses and experience constant frustration at being surrounded by idiots
18:15:35 <kmc> probably very enthusiastic about atheism, bitcoin, ron paul, and misogyny, and feel like this makes them an oppressed minority
18:17:00 <kmc> iow the core demographic of reddit
18:17:55 <oerjan> ic
18:18:43 <oerjan> alas, i only fit 3 or 4 of those.
18:19:00 <oerjan> (dependent on whether i'm in the mood to think other people are idiots or not.)
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18:19:26 <oerjan> wait
18:19:29 <oerjan> 2 or 3.
18:19:30 <oklopol> which ones?
18:19:31 <`^_^v> its also the core demographic of the tech industry
18:19:39 <oerjan> forgot i'm not in my 20s any more
18:20:00 <oerjan> or wait
18:20:06 <oklopol> i feel like i'm surrounded by geniuses all the time :(
18:20:22 <oerjan> oklopol: i'm a white man with a STEM education who is sure he is genius.
18:20:29 <kmc> I'm definitely not a fan of people like that, but the stereotype is (like all stereotypes) a political weapon used to dehumanize others and reject the idea of extending them any empathy
18:20:38 <kmc> so it does make me uncomfortable
18:20:42 <oerjan> also an imbecile, dependent on subject.
18:21:10 <kmc> often it boils down to making fun of people for how they look and then claiming the moral high ground by some tenuous connection between appearance and harmful politics
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18:22:19 <kmc> I definitely have sympathy for smart people who are frustrated at being surrounded by people who are much less intelligent
18:22:33 <oklopol> oerjan: do you feel you are surrounded by idiots?
18:22:36 <kmc> I have avoided this by consciously steering towards groups of people smarter than I am
18:22:44 <kmc> but it occurs to me that this is a marker of privilege
18:22:51 <oerjan> oklopol: well not on this channel :P
18:22:56 <Taneb> kmc, that's why I'm in this channel
18:24:06 <Taneb> Also with some of my friends at uni I have the weird situation where I think they're smarter than me because they are much better programmers, but they think I'm smarter than them because I have a better grasp on context-free grammars etc
18:24:14 <kmc> heh
18:24:52 <kmc> at my school there were a lot of conversations that were basically posturing to see who had the best claim to being stupid and an impostor who was going to fail out
18:24:55 <kmc> pretty weird
18:25:37 <Taneb> Yeah, I know how that feels
18:25:52 <oerjan> Taneb: math and computing talent don't always go together. (my old advisor had trouble using a computer...)
18:25:53 <kmc> bragging about your accomplishments was so strongly stigmatized that even admitting you were good at anything was kind of a faux pas
18:26:07 <Taneb> oerjan, my degree title is Mathematics and Computer Science
18:26:11 <kmc> indeed computer science talent and ability to computer don't always go together
18:26:15 <Taneb> True
18:26:53 <oerjan> hm he may have had computer science talent, i think he lectured about turing machines some time
18:27:31 <oklopol> the only time i really remember feeling i was with people stupider than me was with this random guy in france whose place i spent a few nights at; he kept saying we should have an orgy with his hookers and commenting on the asses of bypassers (this went on for _hours_)
18:27:40 <oklopol> (but then we got high and it was all good)
18:28:03 <kmc> haha
18:28:10 <kmc> did you have an orgy though
18:28:15 <oklopol> hookers? maybe more like "bitches"
18:28:20 <oklopol> no i wussed out
18:28:24 <kmc> aww
18:29:13 <oerjan> 's ok if they were idiots they probably all had STDs anyway
18:29:19 <oklopol> also i'm mostly into skinny girls and he was more into huge asses
18:29:28 <oerjan> (*) may contain stereotypes
18:29:38 <kmc> haven't been to a proper orgy yet, maybe this is my year
18:30:13 <oklopol> fingers crossed!
18:30:19 <Taneb> I have no desire to take part in an orgy
18:30:45 <oerjan> we know that.
18:30:56 <Taneb> But if you do I hope you have fun!
18:32:30 <kmc> thanks Taneb
18:32:40 <oklopol> i'm not sure i'd be very comfortable at an orgy, since i'm not very comfortable with lots of people in general
18:33:01 <oklopol> although usually the more clothes i have the less comfortable i am so maybe it'd be fine
18:33:25 <Taneb> Thinking about it, if I wanted to take part in an orgy, I'd know where to go
18:34:01 <Taneb> But you know what I really want to do?
18:34:16 <Taneb> Find a giant chess set and play chess with some with that giant set
18:34:27 <kmc> oklopol: heh
18:34:51 <kmc> I've often thought that it's weirder to be the one clothed person in a room of naked people than to be the one naked person in a room of clothed people
18:37:22 <kmc> also http://www.theonion.com/articles/orgy-a-logistical-nightmare,120/
18:37:47 <kmc> (nsfw I suppose)
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18:39:02 <oklopol> "handcuffs" i read handguns
18:39:08 <kmc> ykinmk
18:39:11 <oklopol> now _that's_ an orgy
18:39:41 <Taneb> I need to clean my room and pack in like 20 minutes
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18:42:27 <kmc> there is a large chance that I would be too awkward to enjoy myself, anyway
18:45:54 <kmc> I think that (even controlling for the flaws of self-assessment and whatever) people tend to think I'm smarter than I am
18:46:29 <kmc> (but I can't really control for that, of course)
18:46:45 <kmc> I told a friend my IQ and she was surprised that it was only as high as hers
18:47:13 <kmc> i don't know, that could relate to her self-assessment, as well
18:51:02 <oklopol> have you taken some official test or how do you know? i did the test on mensa's page once
18:51:29 <oklopol> i got them all right and it said i'm a supergenius and i should join their club
18:53:03 <olsner> but you're not officially a supergenius until you pay them to take the same test
18:53:27 <oklopol> well it's a better test administered by a psychoanalystician
18:53:39 <oklopol> ...but yeah that's basically what they said
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18:56:17 <nooodl> iq is weird
18:57:37 <olsner> I think how smart people think people are usually doesn't correspond very well to intelligence
18:59:48 <olsner> e.g. if you're pretty smart then behaving less socially will make you seem more geniusy
19:00:54 <kmc> oklopol: lol
19:01:02 <kmc> and yeah IQ is kinda bullshit
19:01:38 <nooodl> i'm "pretty smart" and feel "pretty smart" too, but surround myself with smarter people so i never actually am smart?
19:02:13 <kmc> oklopol: yeah I had a psychological evaluation some years back and they did an IQ test as part of that
19:02:20 <oklopol> ooh sounds fun
19:02:30 <kmc> not that fun
19:02:33 <maurer> Oh man, are we having a who has bigger imposter syndrome contest?
19:03:03 <kmc> I think I also had one when I was a kid but I don't remember the outcome
19:03:04 <Taneb> I've got a pretty good affinity for maths but that's the only thing I'm good at at all
19:03:30 <kmc> but yeah
19:03:46 <oklopol> i've never been evaluated :(
19:03:57 <Taneb> oklopol, I evaluate you to be pretty rad
19:04:00 <kmc> in 2006 i went to a psychologist and told them I thought I was depressed and I did like 2 or 3 days of complicated standardized tests and then they're like "yup you're depressed"
19:04:01 <oklopol> mwoohoo
19:04:02 <nooodl> i don't think it's imposter syndrome! i guess i relate to taneb here, too
19:04:07 <kmc> wasn't entirely worth it
19:04:10 <oklopol> haha
19:04:15 <olsner> kmc: no drugs?
19:04:45 <kmc> they weren't a md and so couldn't prescribe drugs, they could have referred me to someone but I declined that
19:04:46 <maurer> kmc: Yeah, I was like "I think I'm depressed. Now to studiously avoid having any medical records made of this to avoid future difficulties."
19:04:51 <kmc> maurer: :/
19:05:13 <maurer> I succeeded - I think there are no medical records of this
19:05:15 <kmc> which kind of difficulties?
19:05:32 <maurer> kmc: There are a lot of jobs/positions for which you can be disqualified
19:05:37 <olsner> nooodl: you don't think you're smarter than you think you are?
19:05:37 <kmc> that really sucks
19:06:05 <maurer> kmc: For example, krogstad :(
19:06:45 <kmc> I'm lucky enough that I can just write off any jobs that would care about my history of mental health issues or my past hobby of buying experimental synthetic "FOR RESEARCH USE ONLY" psychedelic drugs from china
19:06:50 <nooodl> olsner: no i have a pretty good idea of how smart i am i think! maybe there are certain things that i don't recognize as "smartness". like being able to just "get" things more easily
19:06:59 <kmc> maurer: yeah :/
19:08:06 <Taneb> I can't even cook
19:08:13 <nooodl> i take being able to think about abstract stuff for granted! but when i compare to peers at school it's like "huh apparently this is hard to grasp for everyone else"
19:08:45 <Taneb> Or, I guess I can cook, but I am not very good at it and when things go wrong I break down and don't learn from the experience
19:08:48 <kmc> olsner: I've only much more recently started taking antidepressants
19:08:58 <kmc> not that impressed so far, will try different ones next week
19:09:14 <oklopol> what's depressing you?
19:09:53 <oklopol> (because totes my business)
19:09:56 <kmc> that's not really how it works
19:10:30 <olsner> oh, while we're speaking about drugs, can doctors prescribe placebo versions of real medicines?
19:11:32 <kmc> "what do you have pneumonia about"
19:11:47 <olsner> it seems like it should be possible, but the logistics might be tricky
19:12:11 <Taneb> olsner, I think it may come under negligence laws or something
19:12:19 <kmc> (this is not a great analogy, but probably gets across my general point)
19:12:24 <Taneb> Anyway, I am heading off now
19:12:25 <Taneb> Bye!
19:13:09 <kmc> bye Taneb
19:13:23 <kmc> enjoy your orgy or cooking class or whatever you're off to
19:13:43 <Taneb> Board games night :)
19:14:06 <olsner> negligence, sure if they did it when someone needs the medicine, but I meant for people who don't actually need the medicine but rather the warm fuzzy feeling of being treated
19:14:31 <oklopol> well sure, but personally i always get ...bummed for a reason (and often it takes a lot of time to realize what the reason was, for example i really believe i've felt bad for long periods of time because i forgot a dentist appointment, and only started feeling better when i realized that's the reason i felt bad); i like to extrapolate that depression often has an initial cause as well.
19:15:10 <oklopol> but yeah i guess that's not really the generally agreed reason
19:15:28 <oklopol> that there is a reason, that is
19:15:36 <oklopol> yeah i'm being very articulate today
19:15:53 <olsner> as I understand it, real depression is pretty much completely unrelated to that normal "feeling down" for a specific reason you can help
19:16:57 <kmc> it's complicated
19:17:29 <kmc> probably if we had a better understanding of the brain and the mind, we would classify what's currently known as "depression" as like six different things
19:17:42 <kmc> (this is almost certainly the case for schizophrenia)
19:18:16 <kmc> mental disorders are loose clusters of symptoms and treatment strategies
19:18:18 <oklopol> yeah probably
19:18:41 <kmc> for me one aspect of depression is like an extreme form of boredom
19:19:33 <kmc> like usually when people are bored it's not because there's really nothing to do but because none of the possible things to do seem interesting or feasible
19:21:02 <Zom-B> i'm hearing this conversation now
19:21:17 <Zom-B> i have chronic depression but it's nothing like what you describe
19:22:15 <Zom-B> i have so many ideas and things to do that i either get stressed when i try to do too many of them or get more depressed when i realize i can't do most of them
19:22:25 <kmc> interesting
19:22:53 <Zom-B> my depression also comes from my lack of love and the sorry state of the world
19:23:32 <kmc> the world is pretty fucked up
19:23:55 <kmc> I think about that a lot when I'm depressed, but I don't know if it's really a cause for me or just one of many things I could feel bad about
19:24:03 <Zom-B> with lack of love i mean lack of a romantic partner
19:24:23 <oklopol> i think the world is awesome :)
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19:30:19 <kmc> i'm sure there are people for whom it is "about" something
19:30:38 <kmc> certainly if you have concrete things in your life that are painful or stressful, that can make things a lot harder to deal with
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19:32:56 <kmc> Zom-B: I hope you find somebody :)
19:34:41 <kmc> I was lonely and angsty and sad for a long time, and things worked out
19:34:46 <kmc> I don't know if that's helpful to hear or not
19:39:16 <Zom-B> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jwow05u2euhcl4/floater-mandel.png
19:39:18 <Zom-B> finally done
19:42:48 <kmc> broken image here
19:42:52 <Bicyclidine> same
19:43:07 <Zom-B> just fixed it, but dropbox is indexing
19:43:39 <Zom-B> done
19:44:27 <ion> http://wathifi.tumblr.com/
19:44:38 <Zom-B> can probably be golfed a lot more, but i'm happy with it
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19:45:33 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.whathifi.com/review/furutech-g-320ag
19:45:47 <Phantom_Hoover> holy shit they're doing it with mains cables too?
19:46:09 <Zom-B> "all digital cables do not sound the same" Dafuq
19:46:22 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.whathifi.com/review/wireworld-stratus-52
19:46:28 <Phantom_Hoover> entry-level power cord
19:46:32 <Phantom_Hoover> £`100
19:47:09 <Bicyclidine> monster cables ;D
19:47:48 <Bicyclidine> this review is gold.
19:48:01 <fizzie> I think we discussed "hifi" mains cables here the other year.
19:48:10 <fizzie> (Maybe even this year!)
19:49:18 <fizzie> The Ethernet cable thing was already so bizarre.
19:52:19 <fizzie> "AudioQuest has a complete line of Ethernet cables that consists of the Forest ($29/.75m), Cinnamon ($69/.75m), Vodka ($179/.75m), and Diamond ($595/.75m). -- "First I replaced, all-in-one shot, all of the Ethernet cables from my Apple AirPort Extreme router to my NAS and from my router to my MacBook Pro with the Audioquest Forest cables. -- I would not hesitate buying the Audioquest Forest ...
19:52:25 <fizzie> ... Ethernet cables. I perceived a more relaxed and natural presentation as compared to the generic cables, --"
19:52:56 <Bicyclidine> presentation of /what/
19:53:25 <fizzie> "During one session, I did some relatively quick swapping, listening to pieces of the same three tracks, swap, listen to a piece, swap. And here I did not notice much difference if any and I believe I would have been hard pressed to tell you which was which if I didn't know."
19:53:34 <fizzie> "Next, I went for longer listening between swaps. Full songs and even more than one. Then I'd swap Forest for generic or vice versa and listen some more. Here, I heard a slight but noticeable difference mainly in the texture of vocals—voices sounded less hashy with the Audioquest Forest Ethernet cables. -- There also seemed to be a greater sense of ease as if some underlying noise had been ...
19:53:39 <fizzie> ... removed."
19:53:51 <kmc> wtf
19:53:54 <fizzie> "With the Audioquest Ethernet cables in my system, and they are in my system since my music is served from a Network Attached Storage device, music sounded less harsh, with more air and ease and with the Cinnamon I even noted greater bass definition and differentiation between instruments. Music sounded better."
19:54:39 <fizzie> The link that we had on-channel not long ago was even better, since it talked about how the worst thing you can do is to install your Ethernet cables the wrong way around.
19:54:44 <fizzie> Because they're directional.
19:54:46 <kmc> amazon reviews on overpriced cables are usually pretty amusing
19:54:56 <kmc> "I love this cable. Crystal clear audio and video. My only problem was that the instruction manual was very vague and misguiding. Long story short, I got it stuck in my urethra."
19:54:57 <fizzie> They only sound good if the music is flowing in the correct direction.
19:55:07 <kmc> 575 of 599 people found that review helpful.
19:55:36 <fizzie> http://www.chord.co.uk/blog/new-chord-ethernet-cables/ I think it was this one, at least it shows as visited.
19:56:15 <fizzie> "Put the Indigo Tuned ARAY Streaming cable into our system and the track “comes to life”, the increased ability to hear the skill and the level of understanding between the musicians made for an irresistible way to spend sixteen minutes. Put the Sarum Tuned ARAY Streaming cable in and you’re even “closer to being in the audience”."
19:56:18 <Bicyclidine> this makes me glad that i found i could read helmholtz's book trying to connect musical aesthetics to physics, for free
19:56:29 <Bicyclidine> because this is some incredible garbage and it's a hundred years later ;_;
19:56:43 <fizzie> "The construction of Tuned ARAY interconnects is such that although they’ll carry a signal when connected in the opposite direction, the placement of the ARAY in the signal path greatly influences the final perceived sound quality."
19:56:50 <fizzie> (I'm not sure what an ARAY is.)
19:57:55 <Bicyclidine> Silence between each note, a stereo image so solid that you could walk into it, voices at the right height, an orchestra with every instrument perfectly in place. Like being there, like listening to music being created.
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19:58:08 <Bicyclidine> Designed & hand built in England since 1985.
19:58:15 <ion> http://www.referencetweaks.com/cms/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/mwdigi.jpg http://www.referencetweaks.com/products/
19:58:38 <Bicyclidine> handcrafted in taiwan, eh
19:59:00 <Bicyclidine> Our products stand out by the application of a total new technique in the audio world: The T T L technique, which is a scientific formula in a revolutionary application. The main feature is the rebalancing on sub molecular level.
20:00:11 <Bicyclidine> also, what font is that on the device? papyrus??
20:01:22 <fizzie> I don't think it's at least standard Papyrus. Somewhat similar, though.
20:02:22 <fizzie> Papyrus "i" doesn't have that half-serif thing.
20:03:32 <Zom-B> how can people buy (ie. believe) that kinda crap
20:16:12 <fizzie> Bicyclidine: I think it's http://www.identifont.com/similar?26N
20:16:56 <kmc> one weird thing about Rust is that because it's expression-oriented, "return" is an expression and can appear anywhere
20:17:02 <kmc> 2 + (return 3)
20:17:51 <kmc> the other day I wrote something like match foo { bar if (match baz { quux => return None, _ => true }) => ... }
20:18:06 <Bicyclidine> does it jump out?
20:18:11 <kmc> (except part of that was wrapped in a macro so it was reasonable in context)
20:18:27 <kmc> it returns from the enclosing function yeah
20:18:37 <Bicyclidine> like lisp then :p
20:18:44 <kmc> the type of "return x" is the same as an infinite loop, i.e. it will unify with anything
20:18:52 <Bicyclidine> right.
20:18:58 <kmc> yeah it is like calling a continuation
20:19:07 <kmc> which is the only way I don't find it incredibly weird
20:19:22 <Bicyclidine> well, that, and i meant common lisp has a "return" macro that works the same
20:19:26 <kmc> oh does it?
20:19:32 <kmc> (i don't even know if CL has first class continuations)
20:19:40 <Bicyclidine> it doesn't.
20:19:40 <kmc> what does 'return' expand to
20:19:56 <Bicyclidine> a special form called return-from that includes the name of the block you're leaving.
20:20:03 <kmc> ah
20:20:18 <Bicyclidine> so you have like (block foo (block bar (return-from foo 6) (print 7))) => 6, prints nothing
20:20:21 <kmc> people joke that Rust is Linear ML with BCPL syntax
20:20:25 <kmc> it's not entirely a joke
20:20:28 <Bicyclidine> that sounds scary.
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20:29:53 <JesseH> my derpland is almost 1 year old ;_;
20:29:57 <JesseH> derplang*
20:30:19 * JesseH emotional
20:31:55 <Zom-B> i released the floater-designer application on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Floater
20:32:14 <Zom-B> i wonder what kind of things will be made with it
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20:33:07 <JesseH> Zom-B, That's pretty cool!
20:37:05 <Zom-B> the language or the designer?
20:51:11 <JesseH> both :P
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21:05:36 <oklopol> that cat is a nazi
21:06:37 <Zom-B> oops, the floater-designer is missing some class files
21:08:02 <Zom-B> fixed
21:08:21 <Zom-B> nobody complained, so i guess nobody trried it yet
21:08:31 * Zom-B looks at JesseH
21:08:54 * JesseH just looked at the wiki page :P
21:09:26 <JesseH> Glad you fixed it before I tried it though or when I did I probably wouldnt try it again.
21:09:27 <JesseH> :D
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21:24:16 <Zom-B> quintopia: why is your spiral interpreter on the way back machine?
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22:03:23 <not^v> in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Barely
22:04:03 <not^v> which direction does b add to the IP
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22:10:22 <ion> Hitler's Reaction to Oculus acquisition by Facebook http://youtu.be/C_JfB4YEan4
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22:41:13 <newsham> why did facebook kill the occulus anyway?
22:44:42 <int-e> kill?
22:45:32 <int-e> I thought the term was "acquire".
22:45:46 <copumpkin> yeah
22:46:34 <Zom-B> better go with open source http://jarradhope.com/posts/secondsight.html
22:49:44 <Zom-B> it needs some work though
22:50:07 <fizzie> This is just a guess, but it's barely possible Facebook's goal is to make money with it.
22:50:36 <copumpkin> surely not
22:50:46 <int-e> ;)
22:51:00 <Zom-B> i surely hope no Minority Report-style commercials
22:51:28 <int-e> targeted advertising, straight to your retina.
22:51:34 <int-e> what else?
22:51:43 <int-e> it's facebook.
22:51:57 <fizzie> When they start buying companies developing tech for hooking up to the optic nerve, then it's time to get worried.
22:52:08 <fizzie> At least with a headset, you can still take it off.
22:53:08 <int-e> Hah. That's what you think. I can't wait for the RIAA and co to demand software lockable 3d glasses so people won't look away during ads. ;)
22:53:13 <Zom-B> that excuse is just as lame as saying you can turn your monitor off when you see web ads
22:53:17 <int-e> hmm. MPAA should be first.
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22:56:35 <newsham> [12:49] < int-e> I thought the term was "acquire".
22:56:45 <newsham> why did facebook acquire occulus to kill it off?
22:57:14 <quintopia> Zom-B: hard drive failure, among other things
22:57:36 <newsham> zomb: in trusted path, wouldnt the software pause the add when the monitor is turned off? ;-)
22:57:42 <newsham> s/add/ad/
23:00:18 <fizzie> Perhaps they should just add a post-ad quiz on its content that you have to answer correctly in order to proceed.
23:01:44 <newsham> why not just require you to purchase what the ad is selling?
23:01:46 <newsham> easier
23:02:24 <fizzie> Baby steps.
23:02:51 <newsham> you know those train advertisements that play on the window so you only hear it when you lean your head on the glass?
23:03:07 <newsham> i cant wait till they require at least some fraction of train riders put their head on the glass before the train goes
23:03:24 <fizzie> No, I don't know those. Sounds fancy.
23:03:42 <newsham> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/03/train-window-ads_n_3535574.html
23:04:36 <fizzie> I've been kind of wondering why there aren't (or are there?) any ads that play when you drive over them, since there's those "musical roads". Maybe it's not high-fidelity enough.
23:07:16 <fizzie> We had recently to play with this device, designed for people with no working vocal cords; you touch it to your throat, and then make the necessary vocal tract shapes; the device has a buzzer that provides an excitation, and what comes out is (somewhat) intelligible speech.
23:09:41 <newsham> fizzie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io8sB9sE9Dw
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23:18:02 <kmc> the permadeath difficulty curve of 2048 is mitigated somewhat by the fact that you can get pretty far just by mashing buttons real fast
23:18:12 <kmc> this is sort of like praising a bad film for being short, but whatever
23:22:06 <int-e> kmc: keep the big pieces on a side; preferrably with the biggest piece in a corner.
23:23:26 <kmc> yeah
23:23:34 <kmc> that's what I do
23:24:04 <kmc> i've won at 2048 (and doge2048) a number of times by now
23:24:12 <kmc> it doesn't remove the compulsion to play, only the illusion that I was having fun
23:24:29 <int-e> That should easily get the winning rate to 50%.
23:24:36 <int-e> I have to fight the urge to try and reach 8192.
23:25:29 <quintopia> kmc: have you tried Threes
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23:31:02 <quintopia> i just got pretty far in 2584 with the corner strategy
23:31:09 <quintopia> seems a bit broken that that works
23:44:31 <kmc> fungot: I guess it would be nice to give my heart to a god, but which one do I choose?
23:44:31 <fungot> kmc: obviously.... what?
23:44:54 <kmc> fungot: you are not the destroyer
23:44:54 <fungot> kmc: i've been thinking of.) is very weird even if you take a list of posn structs and drawing an image that has no compiler.
23:45:20 -!- kmc has set topic: an image that has no compiler | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
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