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01:41:38 <CapitalSigma> is there a BNF grammar for brainfuck out there somewhere?
01:43:26 <kmc> I think it would just be c ::= "[" c "]" | "+" | "-" | "<" | ">" | "," | "."
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01:43:41 <kmc> and a lot of interpreters will accept unbalanced [] until you actually hit them
01:43:52 <kmc> so it's not clear whether that's a syntax error or a runtime exception
01:44:23 <kmc> c ::= "" | "[" c "]" | "+" c | "-" c | "<" c | ">" c | "," c | "." c
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01:52:31 <CapitalSigma> okay. i'm trying to learn about compilers so i figure that getting a parser+lexer for brainfuck working would be the easiest place to start -- are there any good resources out there?
01:53:08 <zzo38> Ah. What are you trying to write the program in?
01:56:06 <kmc> brainfuck isn't the kind of language you would use those tools for
01:56:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39293&oldid=39288 * Doesthiswork * (+2056) added a simple genetic algorithm as an example
01:56:24 <kmc> I would start with a simple expression grammar
01:56:39 <CapitalSigma> zzo38: i'm really interested in learning how to use parser-generators, i'm using antlr
01:56:43 <zzo38> Yes it is true you don't need a parser+lexer for brainfuck compiling
01:57:01 <kmc> parse arithmetic expressions with literals and +-*/ and parentheses
01:57:08 <kmc> that's kind of the standard first parser project
01:58:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39294&oldid=39293 * Doesthiswork * (+7)
01:58:54 <CapitalSigma> okay.... and that would look something like: op ::= "+" | "*" | "/" | "-"; exp ::= exp op exp | id; id ::= [0-9]+;
01:59:20 <zzo38> CapitalSigma: That won't make any precedences.
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02:00:09 <zzo38> I have seen the parser for the OASYS compiler (a text-adventure game system); is not too difficult for understanding. (I have, in fact, rewritten it in BASIC from a printout of the C code, because I didn't have a disk, and on the target computer I didn't have a C compiler.)
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02:02:33 <CapitalSigma> zzo38: okay. so it needs parens.... i suppose exp ::= "(" exp op exp ")"; would be enough... is there anything that you all recommend i read for starting off?
02:05:37 <zzo38> I actually don't read much about parser either...the only expression parser I really studied much is the one used in OASYS, and didn't find it so difficult.
02:09:15 <zzo38> I have read some books too, telling about LL(1), LR(1), and so on, but I forgot what book it is.
02:09:26 <zzo38> Wikipedia might have some more information.
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02:45:13 <Sgeo> If only NullPointerException was a checked exception...
02:45:54 <Sgeo> (Actually that would probably be quite annoying to work with)
02:46:06 <Sgeo> Not sure which is worse
02:47:04 <Bike> if only, if only, the woodpecker sighs
02:49:27 <doesthiswork> apparently there was a comic charecter named Smokey Stover who called things he didn't know the name of "foo"
02:52:49 <Sgeo> the bark on the trees was as soft as the skies
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03:02:41 <Sgeo> Google seems to disagree on if it's 'trees' or 'tree'
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03:06:12 * Sgeo goes to install EclipseFP
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03:33:05 <Sgeo> https://www.cloudflarechallenge.com/heartbleed
03:33:15 <Sgeo> So, are they just trying to figure out the plausibility of stolen certificates?
03:37:30 <Sgeo> Is it possible for a random third party to hinder Heartbleed attacks slightly by asking for a smaller heartbeat payload than it gives?
03:39:55 <Bike> that sounds hilarious
03:40:50 <Jafet> I don't know what that means, but you could inundate servers with traffic so that single attackers are less likely to find sensitive data amongst all of your buffers
03:41:31 <Jafet> Though, it costs you more traffic to play this game than them.
03:45:31 <Sgeo> https://twitter.com/indutny/status/454767565991325697
03:48:52 <kmc> you have to use www.cloudflarechallenge.com to make it actually work
03:49:04 <kmc> I think twitter messes with things that look like hostnames
03:49:26 <Sgeo> Hovering over the links shows www
03:50:26 <Jafet> What if someone steals the private key from his server
04:23:30 <zzo38> There is this quotation about Lisp programming: SQL, Lisp, and Haskell are the only programming languages that I've seen where one spends more time thinking than typing. -- Philip Greenspun
04:24:58 <elliott> Greenspun hasn't seen enough languages
04:26:55 <zzo38> elliott: You are probably correct.
04:29:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39295&oldid=39294 * Zerk * (-50) /* Examples */(Decrement) I think I just figured out recursion, correct me if I'm misunderstanding the semantics.
04:36:00 <Bike> i also get that with brainfuck
04:36:46 <zzo38> Why do you hate FORTRAN so much?
04:39:49 <kmc> why you want rail for kalashnikov
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04:42:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39296&oldid=39295 * Zerk * (+50) Undo revision 39295 by [[Special:Contributions/Zerk|Zerk]] ([[User talk:Zerk|talk]]) I do misunderstand the semantics! It would reach the right value, but then unwind back to the original 0 before returning.
04:43:50 <zzo38> I don't know who/what they are.
04:44:43 <shachaf> What do you call a chain A, B, C, ... such that A ⊆ B ⊆ C ⊆ ...?
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04:47:39 <Bike> why do i hate fortran so much
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04:48:33 <Bike> shachaf: descending chain? or what
04:48:54 <shachaf> i guess chain is the actual term
04:49:02 <shachaf> also why is it descending and not ascending
04:49:17 <Bike> look, i'm not noether
05:00:36 <zzo38> How can you make a programming language where the types are Hoare triples?
05:00:41 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that I'm already using an entirely online password manager, completely unencrypted
05:00:59 <Sgeo> (At least, I think it's unencrypted)
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05:06:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39297&oldid=39296 * Doesthiswork * (-2065) removed the GA example after concluding that it is a mess semantically
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05:14:24 <Sgeo> Google already has my passwords, why not LastPass?
05:15:58 <coppro> Chrome is unecrypted by default but you can encrypt them if you'd like.
05:16:11 <coppro> I believe the local store is encrypted though; the encryption option just affects the syncing
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05:19:33 <zzo38> Is it possible to do sequent calculus with only bound variables and no free variables (so that free variables are ungrammatical)?
05:21:29 <coppro> been too long since I've seen sequent calculus
05:27:09 <zzo38> I try to think of a way
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06:09:23 <newsham> whoa, you gave your password to google?!@#
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06:18:22 <Jafet> newsham: it's what happens when you decide to use gmail.
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06:34:03 <newsham> cant you tell them you want to use gmail but you dont want to give them your pw?
06:35:56 <Jafet> The trouble is that most services that use authentication persistently insist that you should allow them to delegate the authentication to google.
06:37:26 <Jafet> Hmm, I wonder if I could simply point them at foo@example.com. (Probably not; IANA has a server there.)
06:38:09 <newsham> most services i've seen dont delegate auth to google
06:38:39 <newsham> you know what pisses me off lately? hotmail and google and others pestering me constantly to link a cell phone number to my account
06:38:57 <Jafet> They do, but have a strange name for this--"Forgot your password?"
06:42:39 <newsham> yah well hotmail locked me out of my account for a month because i didnt have a cell phone number in case I "forgot my password"
06:42:48 <newsham> so whats more dangerous, forgetting my password, or hotmail?
06:43:57 <newsham> in a few days when its finally available again i can start migrating all my accounts off of that email addr
06:45:26 <Jafet> Those are two opposite kinds of danger. I don't know how forgetful you are, but I create passwords algorithmically so "forgetting" them is not an issue. The only issue, then, is email.
06:46:07 <Bike> Import Your Contacts From Gmail
06:50:05 <kmc> import your contacts from the depths of hell
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07:42:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39298&oldid=39290 * Zerk * (+2165) /* Implicit evaluation */ new section
07:50:59 <myname> is it just me or does smartboxes look to useful to be an esolang? :D
07:59:14 <Jafet> The lead mentions Kay, so it is esoteric pretty much by construction
08:11:21 <olsner> myname: it's an upper bound, so anything except good? (unless good is small, then anything except bad)
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09:59:12 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/WRGj That's quite the regexp.
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10:14:16 <myname> well, pretty simple, though
10:14:49 <myname> not like that deprecated expression for email addresses
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12:36:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Boxy]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39299 * Zerk * (+2725) Spec fork!
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13:05:31 <fizzie> Hmm. My 16 GB CF card has turned into a 2 TB CF card.
13:05:55 <fizzie> [3432361.978679] sd 11:0:0:0: [sde] 3842213123 512-byte logical blocks: (1.96 TB/1.78 TiB)
13:06:08 <fizzie> That's what it says when I plug it into a card reader.
13:06:31 <fizzie> olsner: Less lucky is that any IO access to it just hangs indefinitely.
13:07:12 <fizzie> Oh, it wasn't indefinitely; but it does go all http://sprunge.us/Meab after a long delay.
13:07:17 <Jafet> Some manufacturers inflate the apparent capacity of their flash devices, but this is somewhat excessive
13:07:39 <fizzie> It does manage to read the partition table off, so maybe a dd on the first 16 gigs could work.
13:08:12 <boily> Jafet: it's only a 7 order of magnitude error. nothing to worry about.
13:10:10 <fizzie> dd of the first partition (there seems to be three) at least seems to be working. fdisk didn't, but maybe it was trying to check something at the end of the disk.
13:11:29 <fizzie> (Okay, it's only reading 100 kilobytes/sec, but that still counts as working, I guess.)
13:13:31 <oerjan> `frink 16 gigabytes / (100 kilobytes/s)
13:13:44 <fizzie> That's only 46 hours to read the 16 gigs that should be there, and a further 220 days to see what's on the rest of the two terabytes.
13:15:57 <int-e> so does the data that you get off the drive make sense?
13:17:11 <olsner> hmm, for some reason I could see immediately that 160000s is about two days, but had to think a long while to realize that 46h is also about two days
13:22:35 <fizzie> int-e: I haven't looked yet. But it had the same number of partitions, so presumably at least the first sector was correct.
13:23:07 <int-e> ok. anyway, good luck :)
13:23:09 <fizzie> Same number that I expected it to have, that is.
13:23:56 <fizzie> There's nothing terribly important in there; it used to be the "hard disk" of a computer, I was just missing some scripts and crontabs I think were in /root which I didn't copy back when the card was working normally.
13:36:40 <fizzie> 140345856 bytes (140 MB) copied, 1327.63 s, 106 kB/s
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13:38:09 <fizzie> Contents seem correct, too. Except that sde1 was apparently /boot, so they're not exactly useful.
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16:13:49 <fizzie> Also got http://sprunge.us/aFOb during a scheduled check of a backup disk, which doesn't sound good.
16:20:48 <fizzie> I can never figure out how to read this smartctl output. :/
16:28:34 <Jafet> LBA numbers, right next to planck units and ancient greek cubits
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16:30:42 <fizzie> Is it a graphical something? The disk is not on a computer with X libraries or anything.
16:31:11 <Jafet> It is a gtk something
16:31:58 <fizzie> I don't even know if big numbers or small numbers are good for these translated ones.
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16:32:39 <Jafet> Well, you could keep mashing the drive and check if the number increases.
16:34:04 <fizzie> I guess I'll run the self-tests, since those at least should say something reasonable, hopefully.
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16:35:01 <fizzie> Reallocated_Sector_ct has a velue of "200", worst of "200", threshold of "140" and a raw value of "1".
16:38:08 <Jafet> `run echo $'#include <sys/mman.h>\n#include <stdio.h>\n#include <string.h>\nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x398e4f53fa300000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc m.c -o m && ./m
16:38:09 <HackEgo> gcc: error: m.c: No such file or directory \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated.
16:38:20 <Jafet> `run echo $'#include <sys/mman.h>\n#include <stdio.h>\n#include <string.h>\nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x398e4f53fa300000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m
16:38:21 <HackEgo> /tmp/m.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/m.c:6:17: warning: missing terminating " character [enabled by default] \ /tmp/m.c:6:2: error: missing terminating " character \ /tmp/m.c:7:1: warning: missing terminating " character [enabled by default] \ /tmp/m.c:7:1: error: missing terminating " character \ /tmp/m.c:7:1: error: expected expression at
16:39:18 <Jafet> `run echo $'#include <sys/mman.h>\n#include <stdio.h>\n#include <string.h>\n#include <errno.h>\nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x1000000000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m
16:39:31 <Sgeo> Ok, seeing the reactive-banana guy act like an idiot makes me sad
16:39:33 <Jafet> `run echo $'#include <sys/mman.h>\n#include <stdio.h>\n#include <string.h>\n#include <errno.h>\nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x1000000000000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m
16:39:34 <HackEgo> 0xffffffffffffffff Cannot allocate memory
16:40:33 <Jafet> `run echo $'#include <sys/mman.h>\n#include <stdio.h>\n#include <string.h>\n#include <errno.h>\nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x1000000000000ull, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m
16:40:33 <HackEgo> 0xffffffffffffffff Cannot allocate memory
16:40:48 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/22udou/heartbleed_aftermath_should_haskell_web/
16:44:10 <fizzie> Jafet: Wouldn't 0x1'0000'0000'0000 fail the canonical-address test?
16:46:12 <Jafet> Huh, there are such things as canonical addresses.
16:46:14 <fizzie> "In addition, the AMD specification requires that bits 48 through 63 of any virtual address must be copies of bit 47 (in a manner akin to sign extension), or the processor will raise an exception.[1](p131) Addresses complying with this rule are referred to as "canonical form."[1](p130) Canonical form addresses run from 0 through 00007FFF'FFFFFFFF, and from FFFF8000'00000000 through ...
16:46:20 <fizzie> ... FFFFFFFF'FFFFFFFF, for a total of 256 TB of usable virtual address space."
16:46:34 <fizzie> Bits don't grow on trees, you know!
16:46:36 <Jafet> I thought CPUs were more clever about masking the unimplemented address lines.
16:46:44 <ion> FFFFFFFF'UUUUUUUU
16:47:07 <fizzie> They're clever about hiding unimplemented physical address lines.
16:47:59 <Taneb> That was meant to be an emoticon but I am too tired
16:48:59 <Taneb> otoh, I bought a new comic :)
16:49:17 <fizzie> They're less clever about the virtual address space limit, which I gather has something to do with saving area on the chip. (As well as maybe some page table -related things?)
16:50:12 <fizzie> Fun fact: Intel manuals allow for up to 52-bit physical addresses even while the linear addresses are restricted to 48 bits.
16:51:12 <Jafet> 48-bit PAE... they think ahead, don't they.
16:52:52 <Taneb> Man, I feel like crap
16:54:10 <kmc> the canonical address thing is done on purpose
16:54:24 <kmc> so that people don't use the unused bits for tag bits (without masking)
16:54:34 <kmc> so that the virtual address space can be extended later without breaking shit
16:55:07 <kmc> i know, right?
16:55:12 <kmc> imo there should at least be a way to disable it
16:55:27 <kmc> some people care a whole lot about speed and not at all about binary forwards-compatibility
16:55:39 <kmc> there's probably a secret MSR or something
16:55:55 <fizzie> Even a translation of a 48-bit virtual address involves quite a lot of pointers. The CR3 register points at the start of the PML4 table; bits 39..47 of the address select an entry of it pointing at a Page-Directory-Pointer Table; bits 30..38 select an entry of it pointing at a Page-Directory Table; bits 21..29 select an entry of it pointing at a Page Table; bits 12..20 select an entry of it ...
16:56:01 <fizzie> ... pointing to a physical page; and bits 0..11 are an offset within the page.
16:56:29 <kmc> kind of bugs me that they all have names instead of just being level4 .. level1
16:56:46 <fizzie> "PML4" has a 4 in it, at least.
16:57:02 <fizzie> I'd like to see them invent names for all similar tables of a full 64-bit setup.
16:57:14 <kmc> don't give them any ideas
16:57:19 <Jafet> Although, you could map identical ranges that have a tag bit on and off to the same underlying pages
16:57:36 <kmc> I've wondered if there are programs that do that
16:57:39 <Jafet> Might screw with the tlb, but isn't it worth it
16:57:57 <fizzie> Just set the "Page-Directory-Selector-Index-Hyperpage-Pointer" suitably and...
16:58:06 <kmc> also do you know the trick about having a page directory table entry that points back to the page directory table?
16:58:28 <kmc> the PDT and PT records have a similar layout
16:59:12 <Jafet> Who would you trick with that
16:59:21 <kmc> if you use the PDT as a PT, then you've mapped all the PTs as pages in virtual memory
17:01:54 <kmc> Taneb: why do you feel like crap? :/
17:02:43 <fizzie> Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
17:02:47 <fizzie> # 1 Short offline Completed: read failure 80% 26750 470670340
17:02:50 <fizzie> I'm going to call it broken.
17:02:52 <Taneb> I was meeting from friends and I kind of abandoned them and I feel bad about it
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17:11:02 <int-e> > 1 -- did I break this?
17:11:03 <lambdabot> mueval-core: GhcException "cannot satisfy -package lens\n (use -v for mor...
17:12:50 <zzo38> Why do Intel make it too complicated/confusing?
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17:15:36 <fizzie> Hah, there was a 36-month warranty on the disk, and it ended three weeks ago.
17:16:18 <ion> fizzie: nice
17:16:24 <fizzie> Man, those engineers are good when it comes to planned obsolescence.
17:16:32 <Jafet> Dangerous level of competency here.
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17:41:43 <boily> @tell idris-ircslave hello!
17:44:31 <kmc> > "hi fungot"
17:44:31 <fungot> kmc: those wallpapers have fnord. python has no semicolons, but mandatory newlines and indentation.
17:44:55 <kmc> python does have semicolons
17:46:20 <boily> fungot: if Python has semicolons, does it mean that wallpapers are fnordless?
17:47:06 <boily> fungot: I'm talking to you, you uncouth bot!
17:47:06 <fungot> boily: if all the benchmarks were implemented. the shared state was very clearly isolated in both scheme48 t ( except in summer when i earn nothing
17:47:21 <boily> fungot: ah. summer internship?
17:47:21 <fungot> boily: that doesn't render correctly here." " n=1" " n=2" " n=3" " n=4" " n=5" " n=6"... etc.
17:48:02 <kmc> int-e: is that a vampire bat
17:48:13 <kmc> fungot: are you a vampire bat
17:48:13 <fungot> kmc: strange labels like spells and magic recipes?" but i don't
17:49:16 <boily> today is a day to be smooth and drink coffee.
17:49:42 <quintopia> it was almost two weeks old and gross
17:49:52 * int-e ponders compiling a couple more ghcs
17:50:02 * int-e should probably change some passwords instead
17:50:18 <boily> two. weeks. old. coffee. I am impressed.
17:51:04 <int-e> . o O ( please tell us if you do )
17:51:43 <boily> I hope you're going to live through the Experience, then pen a beautiful, heart-wrenching Memoir about it.
17:52:06 <quintopia> "here's my password. get on all my networks and tell them i'm dead please and how i died."
17:52:29 <boily> is your password hunter2weekOldCoffee?
17:53:38 <quintopia> what do you mean *******weekOldCoffee?
17:53:45 <Jafet> The thought of dying from stale coffee is enough to keep one awake at night.
17:55:29 <int-e> still better than 2weakOldCoffee
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17:59:47 <boily> meanwhile, I just finished a full pot of http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/60241389/?query=UPPHETTA
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19:05:04 <zzo38> Did you look at Nock? (there is now an article on esolang wiki, and a talk page with a comment on it)
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19:43:48 <HackEgo> eta-julinersuscoin arcallyidocoin unshicoin stanacoin trocoin inforkcoin ringvilcoin unlamcoin crambdcoin uncecoin hcmoncoin keliucoin briacoin blocoin msglecoin wobtucoin kimossercoin waiperlinecoin ennecoin etchellcoin
19:44:01 <fizzie> The first one sounds good.
19:45:44 <HackEgo> puscoin varscoin härtatcoin äkterskådandlatcoin böncoin bestallatcoin opencoin livitcoin uddeställcoin avböjtscoin frisioneracoin tonårcoin återscoin stancoin kokosympacoin omväxlincoin natikuslingcoin gunviscoin elväggnacoin ausarnacoin
19:45:50 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/tail: option used in invalid context -- 1
19:46:37 <olsner> two of those were beancoin and teenagecoin in swedish
19:47:27 <olsner> deniedcoin/rejectedcoin too
19:47:48 <HackEgo> mattomuutomimpänäcoin kireammecoin läpäivässännecoin persovemacoin loppiincoin humistävänäncoin tuneimpinallecoin seksennecoin upottelicoin herkkostansacoin kivaimpianicoin innöiltacoin kailemmecoin puuteleviävistäsicoin joutsuttavammottuvistacoin kiipeimmiltacoin alustammecoin oikografisimmassacoin havastustamincoin pöydäntegiasicoin
19:48:44 <int-e> `coins --klingon 20
19:52:54 <HackEgo> babiliocoin nanisercoin desgotricanglecoin recencoin glriencoin lyeaucoin mbuscoin repréexprivacoin cudentcoin trèsfactécoin lilécoin regacoin siminuovecoin tewarolencoin procoin uivcoin clorescoin dêlecoin édouvecoin pérecoin
19:53:03 <fizzie> "2379071488 bytes (2.4 GB) copied, 22536.1 s, 106 kB/s" fastest CF card in the West
19:54:12 <olsner> only 13.6GB left of the 16GB card then?
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19:57:13 <Sgeo|iPad> Stupidly went to another town' s AT&T store without my computer to wait two hours for my phone to be repaired
19:59:10 <Bike> at&t store, that exists?
19:59:58 <Sgeo|iPad> Yes. There's one near where I live and one in this other town that is an expensive cab ride away
20:04:18 <fizzie> olsner: Something like that. I had to stop temporarily to reboot.
20:04:50 <lexande> Sgeo|iPad: what was wrong with the one where you live?
20:04:55 <fizzie> olsner: (Also for some reason the new 3.13.x kernel Debian had installed hangs in the "waiting for /dev to be fully populated..." at boot; the old 3.12.x worked.)
20:05:12 <Sgeo|iPad> They directed me to come to this one
20:05:16 <fizzie> (Today's apparently the National Computer Problems Day.)
20:05:32 <Sgeo|iPad> With them overnight which I didn't want to do
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20:43:25 <int-e> fizzie: isn't the "problems" redundant there?!
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20:49:29 <fizzie> I guess so. After all, "computer" is a Navajo word meaning "the cause of problems". (Not true.)
20:51:42 <fizzie> Ut oh, now the CF card reading has stopped.
20:56:39 <Taneb> Help I accidentally qualified for the google code jam
20:56:44 <Taneb> None of you make the joke please
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21:02:33 <int-e> Taneb: damn. what joke?
21:03:34 <Taneb> "is it good on code toast"/"i prefer code marmalade" etc
21:03:58 <Sgeo> Didn't get phone fixed
21:04:08 <int-e> ah. food programming. spaghetti code.
21:04:12 <Sgeo> They said need to order a new part to do it safely
21:04:47 <Sgeo> I don't feel like ordering a new part, going to some place again, blah
21:04:53 <Sgeo> Might just buy a new phone
21:05:06 <Sgeo> But I don't want to get into the habit of buying a phone just because the old one broke slightly
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21:56:15 <oerjan> <Sgeo> Ok, seeing the reactive-banana guy act like an idiot makes me sad <-- yeah people who aren't perfect all the time are so stupid
21:56:42 <oerjan> (i noticed those comments too btw.)
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22:06:53 <oerjan> * int-e ponders compiling a couple more ghcs <-- what, are you updating lambdabot to 6.8.2 already? :)
22:07:28 <elliott> I think 6.8.2 was the first GHC version I used.
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22:09:41 <int-e> oerjan: already done
22:10:08 <int-e> 19:32:27 --- lambdabot has quit [Quit: 7.8.1 -> 7.8.2]
22:10:58 <oerjan> i vaguely recall lambdabot used to be several versions behind
22:11:00 <int-e> I was amazed, all dependencies already worked, I only had to patch lambdabot itself.
22:12:03 <oerjan> they seem to be getting good at updating packages for big releases
22:12:06 <int-e> there was only this small problem related to role annotations: https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/commit/dc7ee36480a3e2b4e1b25d0022de72b764029bf7
22:13:36 <int-e> (I'm waiting for somebody to figure out that not being able to infer a representational role for the return value of monad transformers is actually quite annoying.)
22:13:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39300&oldid=39299 * Zerk * (+2358) Examples!
22:14:02 <int-e> well, s/monad transformer/concrete monad stack/
22:14:59 <oerjan> int-e: hm indeed, i'd have expected m to have the nominal role if any?
22:15:13 <oerjan> not that i really understand roles yet
22:15:21 <int-e> (Oh. LB a = StateT State IO a, for some datatype State)
22:15:35 <int-e> I want a to be representational there.
22:16:26 <int-e> And it's not because the monad transformer uses 'm a' for unknown 'm', forcing the argument to be nominal (that's the only safe choice in general).
22:16:59 <oerjan> you can't force m to be representational instead?
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22:17:30 <oerjan> or maybe they simplified the role system so much they cannot express that.
22:17:35 <int-e> hmm. what do roles even mean for things of kind other than *?
22:17:43 <int-e> (i.e. plain types)
22:18:14 <int-e> or perhaps more relevantly, what does m ~ n mean if m,n : * -> *?
22:18:14 <oerjan> i'd imagine that it should mean that m is something that is representational if its argument is
22:20:06 <oerjan> i suppose they'll be forced to implement role polymorphism eventually >:)
22:22:00 <elliott> int-e: you changed lim80! the end of an era
22:22:40 <elliott> the two-space days are over.
22:22:44 <elliott> oerjan: lambdabot's output limiting command
22:22:57 <oerjan> right, i thought he did that a while ago
22:23:05 <elliott> oerjan: it's the thing that makes lambdabot cut off > [1..] far too early, but lets you flood the channel with N lines of error.
22:23:11 <int-e> elliott: but you get 80 characters on each line!
22:23:25 <int-e> rather than 80, total.
22:23:27 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,...
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22:23:49 <elliott> int-e: now just rewrite @run to use repl and support user-local definitions and you'll be ahead of not only what I actually did, but my plans as well.
22:25:11 <int-e> elliott: that sounds like work though
22:25:26 <elliott> int-e: but it was sooooo fast
22:25:34 <elliott> and soooo brittle. so many ways to crash that thing
22:26:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39301&oldid=39298 * Doesthiswork * (+866)
22:26:49 <int-e> oerjan: I did that in December last year.
22:27:03 <oerjan> yep, that's a while ago ok
22:27:26 <elliott> yeah, but I didn't look at the log until now.
22:27:56 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ
22:28:08 <int-e> elliott: the branch I'm actually using is called 'config' btw. that's where all the nasty changes are hidden.
22:28:17 <int-e> (like this change to @faq)
22:28:33 <elliott> I think you should upstream config stuff
22:28:47 <elliott> there's no reason the default config and rc and stuff \bot ships with should differ from what actually runs on lambdabot
22:29:21 <int-e> I have to admit that the actual configuration is not even checked in. I should really do that.
22:29:51 <int-e> (and I have to clean up the utf8 changes very slightly and put them on master)
22:30:27 <elliott> oh, you ported it to UTF-8?!?!
22:30:38 <elliott> I started to do that but it was such a massive effort to untangle what's really a bytestring and what's really text
22:30:51 <elliott> at one point @run was broken because of double-encoding or something like that
22:31:11 <int-e> elliott: not really. ghc-7.8 now uses utf-8 quotes ...
22:31:31 <int-e> like there. so I patched @eval and @type where it leaked through
22:31:39 <elliott> no, @eval is something else entirely :)
22:31:48 <elliott> (it should stop being something else entirely and become @run instead)
22:31:57 <elliott> (well, it's more like nothing else entirely.)
22:32:08 <int-e> I know, but I will probably continue to mix them up.
22:32:24 <lambdabot> eval provides: run let define undefine
22:33:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39302&oldid=39301 * Zerk * (+222) /* Implicit evaluation */
22:34:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39303&oldid=39302 * Zerk * (+73) Forgot to sign
22:41:59 <int-e> elliott: https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/commit/e4c4c70c41f79d497bc59e381552d5b6b3c44d38 is the actual configuration
22:42:07 <int-e> (you may like the scripts)
22:42:42 <elliott> wow, you refactored it and everything.
22:43:26 <elliott> is the nickserv password still, erm, *that*?
22:43:44 <int-e> I think so. There was no reason to change it.
22:44:24 <int-e> yes, I refactored online.rc, because I actually have two of them, one using a DNS name for freenode, and the other using an IP. I grew tired of keeping them in sync.
22:44:42 <elliott> as in, what's the point of the IP one?
22:44:51 <int-e> IP works better when Freenode is under DDoS attack
22:45:10 <elliott> it should support a list of addresses for a server :)
22:46:10 <int-e> And the screen session setup should actually be invoked automatically when the server reboots. I have not tested that though.
22:46:24 <elliott> int-e: incidentally, what with the rate of owner turnover, I think lambdabot's 100% loyalty rating could use a reassessment.
22:47:18 <elliott> int-e: make it pick a random number on startup!
22:47:41 <elliott> just move that into an -e rather than the .rc.
22:50:15 <olsner> hmm, I wonder if I have a binary clock, or if I'm remembering someone else's
22:50:17 <int-e> I guess laziness and purity wins that fight: It has already been evaluated to 100%, it'll stay that way.
23:10:20 <int-e> shachaf: ^^^ HTTP does not support https out of the box, but at least it does not error out anymore.
23:36:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Doesthiswork]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39304&oldid=39292 * Oerjan * (+1) I don't normally edit user pages but that's a broken link.
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